Red Flag

Several years ago, when we started this podcast, we used stars as an example of how people of various perspectives and backgrounds can look at the same image but take different meanings from it. Obviously this was our entry point to talking about the now former Mississippi flag and the confederate imagery that was so prevalently featured on it. As we conclude this podcast with a look behind the scenes at the state capitol and look ahead to the new flag design referendum, we want to ask you to keep considering the question of how you view our home and what a place like Mississippi means to you.

This week, we talk with the organizers of BLMSip who succesfully put together one of the largest State capitol protests, in recent history.

Spoilers! The flag came down y'all! But was the really an overnight decision? And at what cost did it take to bring us here? The Red Flag podcast welcomes you back to Mississippi for this 3 part finale, exploring the path that lead the last state in the union to take down it's confederate battle emblem.

Final Debates and Final Votes from the floor of the Mississippi Senate - 6/28/20 HB1796 Passes.

Mississippi Senate Jun 27 2020 36-14

Mississippi House of Representatives Jun 27 2020 85-34 towards changing the State Flag of Mississippi

"65 Percent" History is catching up to us as we dive into the referendum that solidified our current state flag. Links: Mississippi Flag Referendum (April 2001) https://ballotpedia.org/MississippiFlagReferendum(April2001) Sons of Confederate Veterans http://www.scv.org Quotes: Leslie B. McLemore II: “The state’s flag’s job is representation of the state to outsiders. The flag [represents] each state’s personal identity. So when your identity is wrapped around the Confederacy…I personally don’t understand it.” Greg Stewart: “For me, it is a flag that represents everyone’s history… if we want to change it, that’s fine. But it’s not going to be changed by demonizing my ancestors.” Leslie B. McLemore II: “That [Confederate] history is something that is not only divisive, but it’s a losing history.” Chellese Hall: Maybe we should all view this flag as a threat to our heritage as current Mississippians. This flag takes away my voice as a young black woman creating a space for herself in a state whose flag waves like a hostile beacon. Boilerplate: “Red Flag” is produced by Podastery Studios and hosted by Beau York and Chellese Hall. Our Music is by Clouds & Crayons with additional music provided by Loki Antiphony. Album art by Tyler Tadlock. This episode was written by Rachel James-Terry. Transcriptions by Daisy Stackpole. Special thanks to advising Producers Rodrick Red & Dereck Russell. Be sure to see our show notes for additional credits and links to the stories referenced in this episode. If you want to learn more about how you can support the creation of this podcast please visit RedFlagPodcast.com and follow us on Instagram and Twitter @RedFlagPod. Special Guests: Greg Stewart and Leslie B. McLemore II.

"I Love Mississippi." There was a time when the Governor of Mississippi and President of the United States were not as chummy as they are now... Links: James Meredith at University of Mississippi https://50years.olemiss.edu/james-meredith/ Dr. Marvin King https://politicalscience.olemiss.edu/marvin-king/ Ross Barnett “I Love Mississippi Speech” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygVf3FxKxJU Quotes: “If Mississippi is going to maximize its potential, compete with surrounding areas, and be a substantial national and global contender in education and commerce, to be the best version of itself, to attract major businesses that can help our state and people grow socially, culturally, and economically, and retain and attract our biggest asset–the people who are here–then we must have and promote a healthy environment of inclusivity and acceptance, not one that almost always appears to be divided by racial turmoil, and that won’t happen until we learn and accept that although old traditions may never die, they can in fact be broken.” –Chellese Hall and Beau York Boilerplate: “Red Flag” is produced by Podastery Studios and hosted by Beau York and Chellese Hall. Our Music is by Clouds & Crayons with additional music provided by Loki Antiphony. Album art by Tyler Tadlock. This episode was written by Rachel James-Terry. Transcriptions by Daisy Stackpole. Special thanks to advising Producers Rodrick Red & Dereck Russell. Be sure to see our show notes for additional credits and links to the stories referenced in this episode. If you want to learn more about how you can support the creation of this podcast please visit RedFlagPodcast.com and follow us on Instagram and Twitter @RedFlagPod. Special Guest: Dr. Marvin King.

"Symbols matter." Just ask the fans of Batman, Superman, or any brand enthusiast. But what if your logo doesn't match your message? Looks like them podcasters are at it again! Links: Derek Russell https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3053783/bio Dr. D’Andra Orey http://www.jsums.edu/polisci/faculty-and-staff/dandra-orey-ph-dchair/ Quotes: “[A seal] triggers something in your mind so when you see it, it almost becomes an allegory for you.” –Derek Russell “When you’re dealing with an entertainment industry that is controlled by a large white majority, I don’t think how we feel is necessarily taken into consideration. I know adults who watched the show as kids and thought nothing about the Confederate images because it was beyond their understanding then. It was just a fun show to watch. But now, as adults today, who know and understand the history of the civil war, they find the representation in the show problematic.” –Chellese Hall “In the case of The Dukes of Hazzard, art is imitating life. It’s like a revisionist wrote the script. It took something that we find hurtful and problematic and turned it into this symbol of heroism. I don’t think it was deliberate. But it speaks to how people try to convince us that our feelings towards the flag are trivial.” –Chellese Hall “Implicit association … you can't give us a social desire response, which is what we often find in surveys, I mean who's going to admit with having a bias against black or white?” - Dr. D'Andra Orey Boilerplate: “Red Flag” is produced by Podastery Studios and hosted by Beau York and Chellese Hall. Our Music is by Clouds & Crayons with additional music provided by Loki Antiphony. Album art by Tyler Tadlock. This episode was written by Rachel James-Terry. Transcriptions by Daisy Stackpole. Special thanks to advising Producers Rodrick Red & Dereck Russell. Be sure to see our show notes for additional credits and links to the stories referenced in this episode. If you want to learn more about how you can support the creation of this podcast please visit RedFlagPodcast.com and follow us on Instagram and Twitter @RedFlagPod. Special Guests: Derek Russell and Dr. D'Andra Orey.

"Heritage" or "Hate". It's almost cliche at this point. But what are the origins of the flag's heritage and hate? Links: Dr. Robert Luckett http://www.jsums.edu/history/luckett/ Dr. Otis Pickett https://www.mc.edu/faculty/u/owpickett https://twitter.com/otiswpickett Voting Rights for African Americans from Library of Congress https://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactivities/presentations/elections/voting-rights-african-americans.html The Birth of a Nation 1915 Film: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0004972/ 2016 Film: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4196450/ Transcript of Brown v. Board of Education (1954) https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=false&doc=87 Dixiecrat Party http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477 Quotes: “As a white male christian southerner, this argument that our heritage isn’t somehow hate or that our heritage should somehow always be painted in rosy colors has never set well with me. The Mississippi flag and what it represents to the vast majority of Mississippians today is something that is oppressive, rooted in a history fundamentally based in the institution of slavery.” –Dr. Robert Luckett “Symbols matter. When you have a symbol that is connected with [a racist history] and you choose for that symbol to reflect who you are to the rest of the world, it says something about your values as a society… Mississippi is so much better than what it chooses to reflect itself as.” -Dr. Otis Pickett Boilerplate: “Red Flag” is produced by Podastery Studios and hosted by Beau York and Chellese Hall. Our Music is by Clouds & Crayons with additional music provided by Loki Antiphony. Album art by Tyler Tadlock. This episode was written by Rachel James-Terry. Transcriptions by Daisy Stackpole. Special thanks to advising Producers Rodrick Red & Dereck Russell. Be sure to see our show notes for additional credits and links to the stories referenced in this episode. If you want to learn more about how you can support the creation of this podcast please visit RedFlagPodcast.com and follow us on Instagram and Twitter @RedFlagPod. Special Guests: Dr. Otis Pickett and Dr. Robert Luckett.

Links: Ted Kaye’s book: Good Flag, Bad Flag “Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition.” Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephans’ Cornerstone Speech, given on March 21, 1861 Quotes: Chellese: “[It’s good to] remember why the Confederacy so willingly united under that flag. It wasn’t the design or the arrangement of it–it was the ideas behind the uprising–slavery and white supremacy.” Beau: “The Civil War may have settled the question about maintaining The Union and created the opportunity to end slavery as an institution. But the ideas that underpinned the confederacy and American slavery never really went away.” Beau: “Remember what Alexander Stevens said, that the races were not equal, that idea wasn’t vanquished by the war and it certainly was never unique to the South. It’s just that the confederacy willingly and explicitly embodied it, which is why the Confederate battle flag. The one that is currently on the Mississippi state flag has been claimed by hate groups throughout the country and beyond.” Chellese: “For those looking to maintain white supremacy in a post-slavery America, where do you think they look to for inspiration?” Boilerplate: “Red Flag” is produced by Podastery Studios and hosted by Beau York and Chellese Hall. Our Music is by Clouds & Crayons with additional music provided by Loki Antiphony. Album art by Tyler Tadlock. This episode was written by H.B. Stewart. Transcriptions by Daisy Stackpole. Special thanks to advising Producers Rodrick Red & Dereck Russell. Be sure to see our show notes for additional credits and links to the stories referenced in this episode. If you want to learn more about how you can support the creation of this podcast please visit RedFlagPodcast.com and follow us on Instagram and Twitter @RedFlagPod. Song at the end of each episode: “Nightmare” Clouds & Crayons (https://soundcloud.com/cloudsncrayons/nightmare-master) Special Guest: Ted Kaye.

Quotes: “We’ve got to explore why symbols even matter in the first place. What’s the story behind our flag? If the argument that keeps getting brought up is heritage versus hate, what is the heritage of Mississippi? What is the hate of Mississippi? Because we’ve got to know where we’ve been to know how we move forward.” Links: Gunn: Confederate part of MS flag 'needs to be removed' - https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2015/06/22/petition-mississippi-confederate-flag/29113157/- via Clarion Ledger Wicker: Time to put Mississippi flag in a museum - https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/25/politics/wicker-time-to-put-mississippi-flag-in-museum/index.html via CNN Lawsuit takes aim at Mississippi state flag - https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/08/us/mississippi-flag-lawsuit/index.html via Clarion Ledger Mississippi Flag Referendum (April 2001) - https://ballotpedia.org/MississippiFlagReferendum(April2001) Moore v. Gov. Bryant Oral Argument (March 2017) - https://www.c-span.org/video/?425186-1/moore-v-gov-bryant-oral-argument Moore v. Bryan Lawsuit - https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca5/16-60616/16-60616-2017-03-31.html Boilerplate: “Red Flag” is produced by Podastery Studios and hosted by Beau York and Chellese Hall. Our Music is by Clouds & Crayons with additional music provided by Loki Antiphony. Album art by Tyler Tadlock. This episode was written by Rachel James-Terry. Transcriptions by Daisy Stackpole. Special thanks to advising Producers Rodrick Red & Dereck Russell. Be sure to see our show notes for additional credits and links to the stories referenced in this episode. If you want to learn more about how you can support the creation of this podcast please visit RedFlagPodcast.com and follow us on Instagram and Twitter @RedFlagPod. Song at the end of each episode: “Nightmare” Clouds & Crayons (https://soundcloud.com/cloudsncrayons/nightmare-master)