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From April 19, 2014: Benjamin Wittes had meant to have a book review of former CIA lawyer John Rizzo's new book, Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA, ready to run along with this episode of the podcast. But he was still working on the review, which will be up shortly, and he didn't want to hold up the podcast while he finished it.Ben caught up with Rizzo at a recent conference at Pepperdine University Law School. They talked about the book, some of its major themes, the persistence of the interrogation controversies and their latest manifestations. They also talked about the growth of lawyering at the CIA and why all the lawyers in the world can't seem to keep the agency out of trouble. And they talked about a career that, in many ways, tells the story of the modern CIA and the effort to do intelligence and covert action under law—from the Church Committee to the post 9/11 scandals.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
The black letter law and articles discussed in this episode: Redacted CIA cables on the existence and destruction of the tapes https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/cia_release20100415_p10-18.pdf CIA acknowledged destruction of tapes in court filing https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/letter-judge-hellerstein-acknowledging-destroyed-cia-interrogation-tapes?redirect=cpredirect/38869 Justice Department closed criminal investigation into Jose Rodriguez https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-statement-investigation-destruction-videotapes-cia-personnel Redacted 2004 CIA Inspector General report on Detention and Interrogation https://fas.org/irp/cia/product/ig-interrog.pdf John Rizzo’s confirmation hearing video https://www.c-span.org/video/?199218-1/cia-general-counsel-nomination Gina Haspel’s confirmation hearing video. Listeners should note that the hearing references Mr. Rizzo's memoir and Ms. Haspel disputes some details of his account. https://www.c-span.org/video/?444988-1/gina-haspel-pledges-restart-cia-interrogation-program John Rizzo is senior counsel at Steptoe & Johnson https://www.steptoe.com/en/lawyers/john-rizzo.html His book is “Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA” https://www.amazon.com/Company-Man-Thirty-Controversy-Crisis/dp/1451673930
The black letter law and articles discussed in this episode: CIA “Enhanced Interrogation Technique” program Senate report on torture: https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/senate-intelligence-committee-study-on-cia-detention-and-interrogation-program CIA fact sheet: https://www.cia.gov/news-information/press-releases-statements/2014-press-releases-statements/cia-fact-sheet-ssci-study-on-detention-interrogation-program.html Human Rights Watch FAQ: https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/resource/senate-report-cia-torture-frequently-asked-questions Destruction of tapes https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/washington/03web-intel.html Attorney Generals Act and OLC advice to agency heads https://www.justice.gov/olc/best-practices-olc-legal-advice-and-written-opinions “Torture Memos” from the Justice Department OLC https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB127/02.08.01.pdf https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB127/020801.pdf Memo to John Rizzo: http://cdm266901.cdmhost.com/cdm/ref/collection/p266901coll4/id/1912 https://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/safefree/yoo_army_torture_memo.pdf 18 USC 2340, the definition of “torture” https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2340 Scooter Libby pardon https://www.justice.gov/pardon/page/file/1052911/download John Rizzo is senior counsel at Steptoe & Johnson https://www.steptoe.com/en/lawyers/john-rizzo.html His book is “Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA” https://www.amazon.com/Company-Man-Thirty-Controversy-Crisis/dp/1451673930
Over the 67-year history of the CIA, no agency staff attorney has ever wielded more influence or power than John Rizzo. A self-described “company man,” Rizzo joined the Central Intelligence Agency back in 1976 and over the next three-and-a-half decades helped guide the agency through a host of controversies and scandals—from Iran-Contra to the extraordinary rendition of suspected terrorists. Earlier this year, after the publication of his fascinating memoir (“Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA)”, Rizzo spoke with California Lawyer Contributing Editor Martin Lasden. Series: "Legally Speaking" [Public Affairs] [Show ID: 28960]
Over the 67-year history of the CIA, no agency staff attorney has ever wielded more influence or power than John Rizzo. A self-described “company man,” Rizzo joined the Central Intelligence Agency back in 1976 and over the next three-and-a-half decades helped guide the agency through a host of controversies and scandals—from Iran-Contra to the extraordinary rendition of suspected terrorists. Earlier this year, after the publication of his fascinating memoir (“Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA)”, Rizzo spoke with California Lawyer Contributing Editor Martin Lasden. Series: "Legally Speaking" [Public Affairs] [Show ID: 28960]
John Rizzo talks about his new book, Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA.Company Man is John Rizzo's insider memoir of his career at the CIA under eleven CIA directors and seven Presidents. During a crisis, said former CIA Director George Tenet, "You don't call in the tough guys; you call in the lawyers." From 1976 to 2009, John Rizzo was the lawyer they called. He made legal calls on virtually every major CIA issue of the past 30 years, from rules governing waterboarding and drones to answering for the Iran Contra scandal. Following 9/11 Rizzo was the CIA's top lawyer.(This event was originally scheduled for January 21, 2014.)Recorded On: Thursday, February 6, 2014
Company Man: Thirty Years of Crisis and Controversy in the CIA
Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA; Super Bowl tickets cost $1 million; Being married to someone in the CIA; Serious tax reform
Topics covered on today's episode of Mind Set Daily "Supercomputer Duplicates Human Brain Activity" The most accurate simulation of the human brain to date has been carried out in a Japanese supercomputer, with a single second’s worth of activity from just one per cent of the complex organ taking one of the world’s most powerful supercomputers 40 minutes to calculate. Researchers used the K computer in Japan, currently the fourth most powerful in the world, to simulate human brain activity. "Hollywood Figures Spied for CIA" It’s well known that Hollywood loves a good spy story. But what is also true, according to a new book by a former senior CIA official, is that movie makers regularly do some real-life spying. “The CIA has long had a special relationship with the entertainment industry, devoting considerable attention to fostering relationships with Hollywood movers and shakers—studio executives, producers, directors, big-name actors,” John Rizzo, the former acting CIA general counsel, wrote in his new book, “Company Man: Thirty Years of Crisis and Controversy in the CIA.” Find out more by listening to this episode! Support Mind Set Central Subscribe or donate
Back in the dark days of the Cold War, John le Carre published The Spy Who Came In From The Cold. It cast a light, as only fiction sometimes can, on covert actions that are not a clear choice between good and evil, but one where the methods that western intelligence would use, disturbingly resembled those used by their opponents. The distance between us and them became blurred. It exposed the Cold War not as a battle between light and darkness, but a place where both sides meandered in the twilight of moral ambiguity.In the days following 9/11 we as a nation, our policies and our intelligence service, the CIA, would again begin to blur those lines. At the same time, the actions that the President would arguably take, were reminiscent of Richard Nixon's comments in his famous interview with the late David Frost where he said, talking about Watergate at the time, "if the President does it, it means it's not illegal."John Rizzo as, CIA General Council was at the center as that post 9/11 storm, as he was at the center of everything the CIA did for 34 years. He takes us through the history in Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA.My conversation with John Rizzo: