Podcasts about landscape professionals

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Best podcasts about landscape professionals

Latest podcast episodes about landscape professionals

Lay of The Land
#232: Jerry Schill (Schill Grounds Management) — Embrace the Change

Lay of The Land

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 4, 2025 53:25


Jerry Schill is the founder and CEO of Schill Grounds Management — a company he launched in 1993 with his brother after a chance summer job revealed a passion for landscaping. What began as a two-person side hustle has grown into a large-scale commercial grounds management company, now one of the fastest-growing platforms in the industry.In 2020, Jerry began a bold new chapter—scaling Schill Grounds Management through strategic acquisitions alongside organic growth. Under his leadership, the company has completed more than 16 acquisitions and now operates across six states and Ontario, Canada. With a growing family of nine brands and more than 1,400 team members, Schill Grounds Management is recognized as a national leader built on consistency, performance, and a people-first culture — and Jerry is still very much in building mode.Beyond the business, Jerry is an active contributor to several industry associations, including the National Association of Landscape Professionals, the Accredited Snow Contractors Association, and the Ohio Landscape Association. He also founded Holiday Feast — an annual charitable tradition that has served thousands of free meals to families in need throughout the Cleveland community.Throughout our awesome conversation, Jerry reflects on entrepreneurship, drive, discipline, humility, ambition, what it means to build something that lasts, and lots more.00:00 Introduction to Jerry Schill and His Journey00:59 The Impact of Family and Early Influences01:49 The Leap into Entrepreneurship03:54 The Evolution of Show Landscape07:21 Understanding the Landscaping Industry13:08 Leadership Evolution and Personal Growth19:04 The Importance of Peer Networks20:58 Scaling the Business and Maintaining Culture24:32 The Shift to Acquisitions for Growth27:47 Integrating Acquired Companies Successfully31:38 The Role of Technology in Landscaping34:47 Motivation and Future Vision for SGM38:09 Lessons Learned from the Journey39:55 Curiosity and Lifelong Learning41:13 The Holiday Feast Initiative44:08 Aiming for a Billion-Dollar Company45:46 Advice to Younger Self46:56 Hidden Gems in Cleveland-----LINKS:https://schilllandscaping.com/abouthttps://www.linkedin.com/in/jerry-schill-2b010b1a/Referenced Episode — Sanjay Singh: https://www.layoftheland.fm/218-sanjay-singh-macer-get-good-at-hard-things/-----SPONSOR:Roundstone InsuranceRoundstone Insurance is proud to sponsor Lay of The Land. Founder and CEO, Michael Schroeder, has committed full-year support for the podcast, recognizing its alignment with the company's passion for entrepreneurship, innovation, and community leadership.Headquartered in Rocky River, Ohio, Roundstone was founded in 2005 with a vision to deliver better healthcare outcomes at a more affordable cost. To bring that vision to life, the company pioneered the group medical captive model — a self-funded health insurance solution that provides small and mid-sized businesses with greater control and significant savings.Over the past two decades, Roundstone has grown rapidly, creating nearly 200 jobs in Northeast Ohio. The company works closely with employers and benefits advisors to navigate the complexities of commercial health insurance and build custom plans that prioritize employee well-being over shareholder returns. By focusing on aligned incentives and better health outcomes, Roundstone is helping businesses save thousands in Per Employee Per Year healthcare costs.Roundstone Insurance — Built for entrepreneurs. Backed by innovation. Committed to Cleveland.-----Stay up to date by signing up for Lay of The Land's weekly newsletter — sign up here.Connect with Jeffrey Stern on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreypstern/Follow Lay of The Land on X @podlayofthelandhttps://www.jeffreys.page/

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Cut your lawn down to 2 inches for winter

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 26, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says continue to water your trees and shrubs and remember to cut your lawn down to 2 inches for the winter.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Cut your lawn down to 2 inches for winter

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 26, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says continue to water your trees and shrubs and remember to cut your lawn down to 2 inches for the winter.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Cut your lawn down to 2 inches for winter

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 26, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says continue to water your trees and shrubs and remember to cut your lawn down to 2 inches for the winter.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Continue to water your trees and shrubs

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 19, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Continue to water your trees and shrubs

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 19, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Continue to water your trees and shrubs

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 19, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Get leaves off the grass this weekend

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Get leaves off the grass this weekend

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Get leaves off the grass this weekend

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

The Commercial Landscaper Podcast
Interview with Adam Linnemann, Founder & President of Linnemann Lawn Care & Landscaping, Inc.

The Commercial Landscaper Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2025 25:24


Adam Linnemann is the founder and CEO of The Green Executive, a landscape industry peer group and consulting firm.  With over 31 years of landscape industry experience, Adam has grown his nationally recognized landscape company, Linnemann Lawn Care & Landscaping, Inc. from the bottom up. Starting at the young age of just 14 years old, Adam has grown his lawn and landscape company from 1 to over 25 employees and is experienced in small landscape business acquisitions, strategic planning and marketing.  His strengths include goal setting and accountability, organization of financial data and unique add-on business ideas that help generate additional company revenue. Adam is a Certified Profit First Professional Coach and LMN Certified Consultant.  He is a retired Trailblazer with the National Association of Landscape Professionals and has sat on the Landscape Management Magazine Editorial Advisory Board.  He has been featured in several trade magazines including Landscape Management, Turf, Lawn & Landscape Magazine and Green Industry Pros. Adam is a two time President of the Columbia, IL Rotary Club and is a regular columnist for the Waterloo, IL Republic Times.  He is a retired Police Officer from the Valmeyer, IL Police Department and the Monroe County IL Sheriffs Office, at which he served his community for over 15 years.  He is a member of the Waterloo Chamber of Commerce, St. Louis Nursery & Landscape Association, Snow & Ice Management Association and participates in Project Evergreen and SnowCare for Troops. In his spare time, Adam enjoys vacationing in the Riviera Maya, Mexico with his wife, Sahra, and two boys, Nash and Wynn. He also enjoys going to St. Louis Cardinals games, riding ATV's, and is an avid cook using his Big Green Egg!

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Still plenty of time for hardscaping

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 5, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Still plenty of time for hardscaping

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 5, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Still plenty of time for hardscaping

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 5, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Put down last application of fertilizer

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 29, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Put down last application of fertilizer

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 29, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Put down last application of fertilizer

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 29, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Should you keep or remove leaves?

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 22, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Should you keep or remove leaves?

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 22, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Should you keep or remove leaves?

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 22, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: When is the best time for pruning?

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 15, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says we are right about average on rain for the month. He’s not concerned about grass, but trees and shrubs still need […]

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: When is the best time for pruning?

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 15, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says we are right about average on rain for the month. He’s not concerned about grass, but trees and shrubs still need […]

California Ag Today
California Nursery Conference Digs Into Plastic Rules

California Ag Today

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 15, 2025


UC Agriculture and Natural Resources brings nursery and landscape professionals together to tackle new laws and plastic waste challenges.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: When is the best time for pruning?

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 15, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says we are right about average on rain for the month. He’s not concerned about grass, but trees and shrubs still need […]

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Fertilize your shrubs and plants now

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 8, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins Jon Hansen to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Did we get enough rain last weekend?

Growing Greener
Converting Landscape Professionals to Environmental Activists

Growing Greener

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 8, 2025 29:01


Beth Ginter, executive Director of the Chesapeake Conservation Landscaping Council, describes her organization's successful program to enlist an often-resistant profession as advocates for environmental activism.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Fertilize your shrubs and plants now

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 8, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins Jon Hansen to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Did we get enough rain last weekend?

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Fertilize your shrubs and plants now

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 8, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins Jon Hansen to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Did we get enough rain last weekend?

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: How to get rid of grubs

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 1, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins Jon Hansen, filling in for John Williams, to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says that we will still see some good fall colors this year!

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: How to get rid of grubs

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 1, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins Jon Hansen, filling in for John Williams, to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says that we will still see some good fall colors this year!

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: How to get rid of grubs

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 1, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins Jon Hansen, filling in for John Williams, to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says that we will still see some good fall colors this year!

StudioOne™ Safety and Risk Management Network
Ep. 544 Recapping Aspire Ignite Conference: Takeaways for Landscape Professionals

StudioOne™ Safety and Risk Management Network

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 30, 2025 7:28


Rancho Mesa's Alyssa Burley and Greg Garcia, Account Executive with Rancho Mesa discuss Aspire's recent Ignite Conference for the landscape industry.Show Notes: ⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to Rancho Mesa's Newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alyssa Burley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Guest: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Greg GarciaEditor: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Megan Lockhart⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Music: "Home" by JHS Pedals, “News Room News” by Spence© Copyright 2025. Rancho Mesa Insurance Services, Inc. All rights reserved.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Important to keep watering your lawn

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 24, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob encourages you to keep watering those lawns.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Important to keep watering your lawn

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 24, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob encourages you to keep watering those lawns.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Important to keep watering your lawn

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 24, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob encourages you to keep watering those lawns.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Liquid aeration or core aeration?

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 17, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Liquid aeration or core aeration?

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 17, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Liquid aeration or core aeration?

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 17, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Time to do that core aeration

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 10, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob reminds us to not put your sprinkler away! Bob also says now is the time to do that core aeration.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Time to do that core aeration

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 10, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob reminds us to not put your sprinkler away! Bob also says now is the time to do that core aeration.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Time to do that core aeration

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 10, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob reminds us to not put your sprinkler away! Bob also says now is the time to do that core aeration.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Is it still a good time to fertilize?

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 3, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says with the cool, dry weather, it is now time to get your seeding done.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Is it still a good time to fertilize?

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 3, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says with the cool, dry weather, it is now time to get your seeding done.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Is it still a good time to fertilize?

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 3, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says with the cool, dry weather, it is now time to get your seeding done.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: When to start mowing grass shorter

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 27, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob is loving the cooler weather and how it’s perfect for seeding right now.

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: When to start mowing grass shorter

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 27, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob is loving the cooler weather and how it’s perfect for seeding right now.

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: When to start mowing grass shorter

WGN - The John Williams Uncut Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 27, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob is loving the cooler weather and how it’s perfect for seeding right now.

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Window is open to start seeding

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 20, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says our water levels are now above average for the month with all the rain and that late August is a good […]

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: Window is open to start seeding

WGN - The John Williams Full Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 20, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob says our water levels are now above average for the month with all the rain and that late August is a good […]

John Williams
Landscape expert Bob Bertog: How to get rid of aphids in your garden

John Williams

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 13, 2025


Bob Bertog, president of Bertog Landscape Co. in Wheeling and a certified landscape professional with the National Association of Landscape Professionals, joins John Williams to answer all of your lawn and garden questions. Bob talks about the amount of rain we’ve been getting, and how fungus is completely out of control because of the heat and […]