Use Your Outside Voice

“A lot of the work of homeschooling, unschooling, is our work on ourselves. And the fact that we are all survivors of that system, and so have been deeply socialized to believe, ‘No. If you bring your kid home, you are totally going to fail them. There's no way you can ever do this—this is how your kid is going to be totally marred and not get the best they could out of this life. Don't you love your kid and want them to get the best?' Even if you know that, intellectually, that is not true, the way that can trigger a trauma response, and trigger feelings, is still really deep. I think all of us, at this moment—particularly as the governor is like, ‘Peoples' mental health has just gone out the window if they can't be in the school'—all of us need to go back to what our grace is that we can offer ourselves that we made it out of that system with a different critique of it, and that we are trying to raise people that have a different understanding of that system. And be really patient with ourselves and the people around us who are freaking out because they pulled their kid and what the hell. ‘What's gonna happen now?!' That's a thing.” -Carter Listener friends: if you'd like to give support, it would be really helpful if you leave a review on iTunes—and it need not be well-formed thoughts following the reflective, solo, quiet cup of coffee that seems to never be coming—it helps our podcast get found. Thank you! Episode recorded October 3, 2021 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

We unschool with backgrounds in dance, music, writing, and much appreciation for the arts. But, we are not using unschooling to create fertile conditions for the next concert pianist, and we resist conditions where kids are set up now for intense, external standards for (eventual) arts achievement. We chat about intrinsic enjoyment of arts, lifelong arts engagement, valuing process over performance, and fiercely protecting children's (and parents') deep self-expression. Episode recorded August 11, 2021 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

Unschooling siblings spend a lot of time together; a normalized experience for the unschoolers themselves, and a real contrast of experience for the unschooling parents witnessing. We talk about it! Episode recorded July 25, 2021 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

As COVID-19 “Education Recovery” plans and and panic rise, we discuss the unsaid aspects of recovery and what beneficial changes we have observed through the pandemic. Episode recorded June 13, 2021 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

COVID's over, back to normal--?!? Erg, not so much. Our conversation winds its way through what feels ridiculous to ignore at this time. Being mothers during pandemic with kids still not old enough for vaccination, evaluating narratives through lenses that have always resisted school, looking at what-is, showing up in the world as whole as possible. Episode recorded May 14, 2021 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

“I think the biggest takeaway for me right now, as there’s all this conversation about homeschooling and how are things going, is for me it’s a better example this past year than I’ve ever had of the ways in which unschooling is absolutely, at its core, life learning. And there’s so much that we are all learning, whether its how to manage trauma, and all these things…The many ways which all of this will manifest will not be stuff that we can necessarily know for years, and this is a better example of that to me, perhaps because it is so intense and there’s so much learning all the time, every day, much of which we will not be able to articulate or cogently put in a nice little box for many years.” -Carter Email: Outsidevoicepodcast[at]gmail[dot]com Episode recorded March 9, 2021 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

A listener asks, “How do you find people like you? How did you find each other?” and we recall meeting each other by coincidence, and children’s clarity in recognizing their people. We discuss unpeeling layers of school-centric frameworks of “friendship,” being fairly unattached to finding friends based on unschooling status, and well-meaning but thwarted attempts to construct relationships through coops/playgroups. We bring voice to existence of “the quiet years,” honesty about living the shift from a more external focus to centering family and home, and the fact that our kids are pretty clear about what is working for them or not. Episode recorded February 18, 2021 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

Many times, it seems we feel a very simple thing is not enough, or we’re temporarily diverted into just checking boxes. Books are an awesome part of unschooling. But even with the books, it’s really about relationships. We decided to record a partner episode to the last one, where we aim to share how books (unapologetically in all their forms—digital, print, audio, etc) are appreciated anchors in our unschooling. “It never ceases to amaze me how much the kids remember characters like they were friends; it’s like someone they know. And so they share this relationship [among siblings & family]. Every so often, they recall, ‘oh, this is like when such-and-such happened to this person.’ And everyone can relate to this, because it’s a shared relationship. Without even leaving the house. Over the years, I’m like, that’s why I’m not trying to claim books have a hallowed place in our world or society, but it seems something that’s so accessible that we tend to overlook because we have all these other things. But the power that lies within those pages gets forgotten and lost. We shouldn’t forget.” —Lara Episode recorded January 30, 2021 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

Christmas musings and unschoolers & books. And, of course, a discussion about racism. Episode recorded December 20, 2020 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

Questions from a listener ask about the day-to-day rhythm and actual details of our unschooling experiences. A year into recording this podcast, we agree it’s central that the people who are actually doing the work that matters—wiping bums and noses—speak up about living day-to-day with children outside of schooling. We sit down to try to answer these good questions. As usual we have much to say but wonder how to find an answer for the underlying question, “How do you live your life?” Episode recorded November 28, 2020 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

The context of these times seems to be the observing and navigating of trauma response, personally and collectively. We’re in agreement that our unschooling lives are impacted by skyrocketing pandemic rates locally, the American election unfolding, and ongoing surfacing of white supremacy. We decide to record our conversation as it emerges and postpone tidier themes, validating being in relationship with authentic response to what-is (ie, unschooling) as a part of healing work. There’s not much neat or tidy about this moment; and, let’s get on with it. Episode recorded November 11, 2020 Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

We circle around what it means to be unschooling through unprecedented times, when the arrival of a covid vaccine will not mean an end-date to the failing of systems. The context of these times is not just covid, when on a daily basis we can’t shut our eyes to all the things being surfaced and amplified. Like many homeschool parents right now, we have little patience for questions about forcing kids to perform empty academic tricks. It is the job of school to let us perseverate on things that don’t matter so that everything else remains irrelevant. Unchanged. Should it really take apocalypse to permit us to commit fully to relationships and health for our healing and thriving? Episode recorded October 4, 2020. Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

A question posed by a listener and school teacher sparks a conversation about what can be changed within the institution of school, the capability of families to meet the needs of their own children, and whether school can provide equality. Months into disease and racial pandemics, the moment may have arrived for everyone (even unschoolers without kids enrolled in a school) to come to the table with new ideas for how the needs of children and a community are decided and met. Consideration at this table must see school for what it is, how it was created to function, and the impact it has on ALL peoples. Showing up at the table requires acknowledging the disproportionate damage inflicted on Black, Brown, and Indigenous children within schooling and a willingness to place resources into the hands of their families. Stick around with us to embrace change and hope, and permit ideas for community models that can reallocate supports currently placed within the school system back to local communities. Episode recorded August 15, 2020. Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

What if school is an ex-boyfriend who keeps showing back up, promising he’s changed and better than ever, but is really the same old dysfunctional dynamic as before? Yikes. This episode weaves from the personal to the systemic as we discuss our disinterest with any reform to school and rather the possibility of engaging a new paradigm altogether. We reiterate the generational reality of school trauma and the disproportionate impact of overt and discreet school weaponization on marginalized populations. We share personal experiences of regular hope and care for our own unschooling-impacted communities (our own families) and drill down to what’s perhaps most essential and inspiring: centering humanity. Episode recorded July 6, 2020. Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

Quick invitation to send your unschooling (and deschooling) questions or topics you’d like to hear cracked open a bit further. In this moment, with so many things going on in the world, we want to open up the conversation and include the things you are personally growing and moving through. Send us an email or voice memo at outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com or get us on Facebook (Use Your Outside Voice Unschooling Podcast).

We value and intentionally engage in dialogue about where we stand and are being as Black and white people and unschooling families as racism and white supremacy/violence are surfaced and brought forefront in national focus and pandemic remains the global context. Links to references from the podcast: Autumn Brown and adrienne maree brown, How to Survive the End of the World podcast America is the Fire Nation Tada Hozumi, What it means to heal white supremacy: restoring the cultural nervous system, cultivating Hara Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com, or Facebook. Episode recorded June 21, 2020. Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

We raise questions about how we are doing, question how we as a country got here, and how we become so desensitized that any kind of heinousness is just another news cycle to move through. We acknowledge the ongoing and historical presence of people creating pathways for survival and notice that even in a path that steps outside of mainstream systems, there seems to be a desire to fit what is currently happening in this country into some sort of curriculum or checklist to guarantee not-being-racist. It comes back to grappling with your own shit, including not having all the answers (and being transparent with kids about that fact as supportive to their understanding of what is happening). Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com, or Facebook. Episode recorded May 31, 2020. Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

In the midst of COVID19 pandemic, we headed into a conversation from our quarantines about what’s arising for us as the country finds itself out-of-school in unprecedented circumstances. We discuss recently published articles characterizing homeschooling families as stereotypes of privilege and abuse, and the timeliness of such fear-mongering from supporters who want a quick and unexamined return to institutional schooling. We offer encouragement for families who do not look like the stereotype of homeschooling and recognize the role of disruption in change. Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com, or Facebook. Episode recorded late April 2020. Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

As coronavirus shut down schools, we discuss the implied expectation that mom accept the added role of substitute teacher—and the impulse to say hell, no. We discuss rejecting a school-model of relationship at home; surviving within trauma response; and point out illusions shored up by school that may get revealed in its absence. We answer listener questions and, as usual, offer an alternative to the narrative that school is the best or only valid path. Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com, or Facebook. Episode recorded early April 2020. Original music credits: Saoirse, Mae, and Juniper Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

Note: This discussion was recorded before coronavirus impacted the US—including before massive school closures became a reality. The pervasiveness of classes, workshops, consultants, conferences, and books marketed at home- and unschoolers can make it feel like there is a price of admission in order to live your life with your kids. Not so. We talk about the common “I couldn’t afford to unschool” comment; intersecting marginalization that impacts unschoolers’ ability to access spaces; and taking full responsibility for living with a focus on relationships of value rather than curated experiences that are up for sale. Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com, or Facebook. Episode recorded early March 2020. Original music credits: Saoirse, Mae, and Juniper Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

In this special mini episode, we discuss the impacts of the upcoming and ongoing school closures in response to the COVID-19 epidemic from an unschooling perspective. Why school at home won’t work and how to use this pause from the school grind to connect with and support your children and yourself.

A common objection about homeschooling is, “But won’t they be…weird?” Yet this question contains within it an implied shared definition of “normal.” If that “normal” describes an idealized child who is good at schooling, it shores up problematic and unexamined values of race, gender identity, behavior, and compliance at the expense of unique wholeness. Listen in as we three unschooling mamas chat about weirdness, normality, and the goal of living a life where it is normal to bring your whole unique self to the game each day. Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com, or Facebook. Episode recorded February 2020. Original music credits: Saoirse, Mae, and Juniper Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

We chat about a topics posed by listeners: what about when your unschool kid wants to do/learn something you are uncomfortable with? And then, what about your own (adult) process of transformation while unschooling the kids? We hold up no illusions that the work is easy. The simple and complex truth is that it keeps coming back to relationships; continually building a much broader context for our shared understanding; meeting the needs of OURSELVES as people. And mostly, putting one foot in front of the other, one step at a time. Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com, or Facebook. Episode recorded January 2020. Original music credits: Saoirse, Mae, and Juniper Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

Listen in as we three mamas chat about what “unschooling” means to us; what daily life without any school actually looks like, and how it plays out in our families. There’s no definition or list of unschool rules provided, but we flesh out how unschooling is perhaps better discussed as a larger approach to equitable relationships and respectful family life. It’s an honest conversation about daily unschooling life that encompasses the basics (Lego, beach days, and projects) to the profound: rejection of a white colonialist worldview and the positive act of holding onto, or reclaiming, one’s identity. Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com. Get podcast news and announcements on Facebook @outsidevoiceunschooling. Episode recorded October 2019. Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

Listen in as we three mamas wend our way into a public conversation about our experiences of the holidays in lives that have taken a turn away from the mainstream, bringing voice and honesty to what can be a challenging time of year for all. Recording a talk about entering constricted extended family dynamics had us somewhat reluctant, but ultimately in deep agreement that responsibility for self and the next generation is essential in liberation work and should be acknowledged more. We talk about overlapping consumerism, competition, and capitalism; generational patterns; chosen family; intentional choices; epic overwhelm; and more. NOTE: Episode #3 has already been recorded, but we decided to release Episode #4 out of sequence and in time for the winter holiday season. Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com, or Facebook. Episode recorded November 2019. Original music credits: Saoirse, Mae, and Juniper Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

Listen in as we three unschooling mamas weave together our voices and perspectives on the metaphor of “windows”—the idea that there are (often unspoken) expectations for the “right” time to learn things in childhood; childhood windows where social expectations are ubiquitous (back to school, college readiness); even the idea of “play” being a window of time in child development that ends around 5-6 years old (spoiler—we debunk this one). Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com. Episode recorded September 2019. Producer: Brian Lane-Karnas

Listen in as we three unschooling mamas offer our voices and perspectives in the first ever episode of Use Your Outside Voice! Unschooling Podcast We introduce ourselves and our friendship by answering the question “What brought you to unschooling?”. The conversation doesn’t offer an Unschooling 101 jump-start, but launches from our acceptance of life without school as totally appropriate—and invites you to jump on in. We talk liberation of self and children, recovering teacher nervous system, the false promise of schooling and implications for intersecting marginalization, the price of “success,” valuing the inner voice of self and kids, unschooling as a lifestyle…and more. Questions? outsidevoicepodcast@gmail.com. Episode recorded August 2019.