Podcasts about Unschooling

What if the most radical thing you could do for your child's future is to take them out of school, or even out of the education system entirely?Want to learn more about Regenerative Education?You may contact Radonda Dobbins directly for consultation on how to move forward. Connect with Radonda Dobbinshttps://radondadobbins.com/----In this episode, Yoshi Pantera sits down with Radonda Dobbins - certified intuitive life coach, trauma-informed NLP and anxiety specialist, and one of Central Florida's most dedicated advocates for children, families, and alternative education. With decades of experience in child welfare, legislative advocacy, and community building, Radonda founded the Home Educators Network of Central Florida in 2005, growing it to over 900 families. She is a member of the Institute of Noetic Sciences and sits on the board of Back to Nature Wildlife Refuge.Together, they explore what regenerative education truly means - and why the conventional school system, designed to produce industrial workers, is no longer serving the full spectrum of human potential.In this conversation:* The full landscape of education alternatives - homeschooling, unschooling, hybrid learning, co-ops, Waldorf, Montessori, democratic schools, and umbrella schools.* Why colleges actually prefer homeschooled students - and how Radonda's daughter earned a full scholarship to a $60,000/year conservatory* The socialization myth - and why homeschoolers may actually be better prepared for real-world diversity.* How to legally pull your child out of school (it's simpler than you think)* The connection between nutrition, health, and learning capacity - and why school cafeteria food is part of the problem* Cooking as curriculum: math, science, and culture all happening in your kitchen* The 3 steps to begin your family's alternative education journey right now* Why it takes a village - and how to build one even if you're a working single parent* Radonda shares the story of her own daughter, who grew up entirely homeschooled, followed her passion for music, and now runs her own music school working with special needs children - all before 25. A living proof of what becomes possible when a child is allowed to be right.This episode is an invitation - to question the systems we were raised in, to trust ourselves as our children's primary teachers, and to build the kinds of communities where the next generation can truly flourish.3 Steps to Begin Your Regenerative Education Journey:* Ask your children what they are curious about and passionate about* Research what format works for your family - homeschool, co-op, private alternative, or hybrid* Do it. You don't need to have it all figured out. Start.Join our Regenerative Leadership Community and continue this conversation:Learn more and explore all our offerings: www.regenerativeculture.lifeSubscribe to our Regenerative Newsletter https://regenerativeculture.life/regenerative-newsletterRead the Regenerative Culture Chronicle on Substack: https://regenerativecultureworld.subs...Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/regenerativeculture.life/”Regenerating all life through culture…”#regenerativeculture #regenerativeeducation #unschooling #culture #regeneration #newhumanity #minset #education Get full access to Regenerative Culture Chronicle at regenerativecultureworld.substack.com/subscribe

Concern regarding schools in the media usually has nothing or little to do with academics but something to do with it being a bad environment for students and teachers. There are two thoughts that should spring from that observation. The first is why are people so concerned about “socialization” issues when it comes to the home educated? Do they know that they are saying every child should be exposed to a self-esteem destroying, violent social environment? Do children really need to be subject to abuse, bullying and jungle warfare to develop normally? The second observation is that curricular concerns are rarely mentioned outside of the push to normalize deviant beliefs and behaviours. Perplexingly, no one has connected the deviance to the violence now found in many schools. One of the main reasons parents choose to home educate or unschool is their concern about their children's exposure to bad social issues at school. However, most do not tie the bad social behaviours to the bad ideologies being advanced to normalize what God has not sanctioned. In fact, we are now judging the authenticity of the Bible against our desire to do as we wish. Should any part of the Bible condemn our deviant behaviour, it is deemed as hate speech, soon to be banned from the public square. God help us as we slide down that dark path to perdition. Also understand that a standardized program does not meet the individual needs of each child, nor does it take gifting into consideration. As a consequence, school is more likely to homogenize students to the lowest common denominator of mediocrity. Unschoolers encourage children to be the best they can be in keeping with the innate gifts and talents bestowed upon them by God. The important question then becomes: how dedicated are we to ensuring children receive a good education based on the supremacy of God rather than the claimed authority of man? We need to understand unschooling for what it is: Taking control of the education of our children, moving them away from a Godless system – including Christianized versions of a secular system, and restoring them to the family to which they were born. Let us be “homing” our children as directed by our Creator and let us avoid the “unhoming” tendencies of schools. Unschooling or “homing” is what we do here at Education Unlimited. In fact, it is our very heartbeat. Have a good summer.

Now that we have reviewed what unschooling is and isn't, I would like to challenge you to think in a different way. Tell me what to do! This is what we have been trained to ask. We naturally avoid taking risks so it is easy to default to having someone or something direct our thinking and actions. The big question is: what is all this based on? What worldview premise are we establishing our thoughts and actions on? There really are only two options available as far as the Bible goes: We are either for Him or against Him. This is not to say people are cognizant of this choice, but in the end, either things are based on faith in God, complete with all that brings, or we find ourselves on the other side of street, whether we have made a conscience effort to be there or not. In fact, I would be willing to bet that most people have no idea they are on the wrong side, including professing Christians. To understand what this wrong side of the street is, let us consider a few self-evident truths. Only a mom and dad can create children. The environment in which they are to be raised is called family. Family has been around infinitely longer than compulsory schools. So what should be considered normal, a family at home or students in school? Having said that, should we not be considering that it is school that is undoing the home God created as the safe and caring environment in which to raise, train, teach and educate children? Families in homes were here first. When considering the directive of Mathew 19:5-6 where we are told not to separate families, it makes sense to see compulsory government schooling as “unhoming.” Instead we refer to escaping the secular school system, whether public, separate, charter, alternative, private or home schooling as “unschooling”. Does it not make more sense to see relatively new “schooling” as an affront to age old “homing”? Hopefully you see what I mean. If family is foundational, should we be unschooling or should we simply consider ourselves to be homing? The term unschooling actually establishes school as foundational, normal, even authoritative. Unschoolers inadvertently agree with government having an authority in education and we have determined to rebel by not doing as expected, hence the term unschooling. We determine to “un” what is in fact an imposition over what God has directed. Why should unschoolers be the weird ones? Should families at home not be the standard? If so, we should see ourselves as rightfully homing our children and schools as engaging in “unhoming.” Just a thought. https://www.educationunlimited.ca/insights/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/20-Unschooling-or-Unhoming.mp3

This time round Mirabelle's been enjoying Horrible histories and trips to Blists Hill and Birmingham Thinktank. Plus she's been observing the house sparrows and making ice cream for the dogs during the heatwave! Eden's midway through her GCSEs and sharing how the hunt is going for a summer job. Asher's discussing his new swimming routine, and we're all reflecting on the Mandalorian movie!

Text Sue what you think!Are we preparing kids for adulthood… or preparing them for school expectations?Parents worry about grades, gaps, transcripts, screen time, and whether their kids will be successful adults. But real adult life often depends on something else entirely: adaptability, communication, confidence, initiative, emotional regulation, and problem solving.In this episode, Sue Patterson explores how real-life experiences, play, curiosity, gaming, technology, and pursuing interests can help kids develop the skills they actually need for adulthood.Also: why school expectations still shape our fears  how unschooling builds real-world problem-solving skills  the difference between memorizing information and learning how to navigate life  reducing power struggles around technology  helping parents feel more confident taking an unconventional path If you've ever wondered whether unschooling truly prepares kids for adult life, this episode will help you rethink what “life prep” really means. → Creating Confidence Community and Daily Confidence App: https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/creating-confidence-sign-up → Read transcript at the bloghttps://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/the-life-prep-unschooling-homeschooling-kids-really-need Support the show_____________________________________________________As always, reach out if you need more help.  You don't have to do this alone!Creating Confidence DAILY - the Unschooling App you need!Start Free Trial Today!Creating Confidence Membership Group  UNSCHOOLING 101 CourseMath WITHOUT Curriculum CourseUnschooling Transcript CourseSeasonal Unschooling Guides Private 1:1 Coaching with Sue Stay Connected:Free Email List with weekly unschooling resourceswww.UnschoolingMom2Mom.com

Life can and does throw us lots of curve balls to tempt us off the straight and narrow. One of the big temptations is doubt, and it is the reason why the fourth set of fears and concerns descends upon us. We mastered the first set at the beginning, got past the fears and concerns set at puberty and finally made peace with our post-secondary issues. Then it happens, especially with the first or “experimental” child. Having proven your love beyond what the world expects; having trained and taught them; unschooled them through all the stages of youth and growth; successfully brought them to their post-secondary options, convinced that they are fully and rightfully prepared to tackle obstacles in their way; and seen them mature to be faithful and responsible citizens of this world and God's Kingdom, they show their appreciation for all that you have done and leave home, eventually for good. Then panic sets in! You will start to question if you have done a good job. Did you properly prepare? Did you fail at something? Did you handicap somehow? This doubt is most likely to occur with the firstborn and you will likely be much more confident with the younger siblings. After all, you were likely stricter and more “schooly” with the first child and increasingly more comfortable with unschooling with the next. This is natural. It happens within every loving family. Know this: You have done the best you could. You chose unschooling and that was the best choice. Guaranteed you did not do a perfect job, but know that it was much better than what would have transpired in school. Rest easy with the knowledge that since you've been successful with your first child, you will also be with the rest. Keep in mind that each unschooling program will take on a character befitting each child. Now that you have experienced the fourth set of fears and concerns, you are not likely to have to go through them again. Unschooling is no longer mysterious. Go forth with the rest of the children with confidence! You made it! Congratulations! https://www.educationunlimited.ca/insights/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/19-Sending-Them-Off.mp3

In this episode Mirabelle's talking about experiments about friction, planting seeds, her summer reading challenge and her trip to Slimbridge wetlands centre. Meanwhile Asher's talking about his new swimming club, Lego and Minecraft. And Eden's giving last minute tips as she's about to start sitting her final batch of GCSEs.

Text Sue what you think!Mother's Day can be a lot of things — wonderful, disappointing, emotional, or somewhere in between. For unschooling and homeschooling moms, there's an added twist: your kids aren't sitting in a classroom getting reminded to make something for you. No teacher. No craft. No school newsletter nudging dad to pick up flowers.So this year? You become the Mother's Day Fairy.

Text Sue what you think!What does an unschooling day actually look like?If you've been searching for a routine, a schedule, or some kind of structure you can follow… and keep coming up empty, this episode will give you something more useful.Instead of a rigid plan, we're walking through real-life examples of unschooling days—what it looks like for younger kids, older kids, and teens—and why it can feel so unstructured (even when learning is happening all day long).Inside this episode:What unschooling looks like in real life (by age)Why “structure” feels missing at firstHow learning shows up without curriculumWhat's actually happening during gaming, YouTube, and downtimeHow to recognize patterns, rhythms, and progressThis is the shift most parents need: From trying to create structure… to learning how to see it.If your days feel open-ended, uncertain, or like you're “not doing enough,” this will help you reframe what's really going on.

What happens when life completely falls apart — and you still have to show up for your kids? This week Cheryl sits down with Barbara, a former special education teacher turned homeschool mom of four, who opens up about one of the hardest questions in homeschooling: what do you do when you're grieving?After years of fighting the school system for resources her students deserved, Barbara knew she didn't want that for her own kids. She pulled them out, ditched the rigid curriculum, and built something that actually works for her spicy, high-energy family.In this episode:Why connection over perfection changed everything for her familyHow she homeschools four kids aged 5–12 using interest-led unit studiesWhat homeschooling through the loss of her mother actually looked likeSouth Carolina's homeschool options and fundingWhy socialization was never actually a problemBarbara also shares her memoir and upcoming Bible study guide for homeschooling through grief — because sometimes life takes the rug out from under you, and you still have to be there for your family.Connect with Barbara here:  https://a.co/d/0bMqCMiqBarbara's Instagram

Text Sue what you think!What does unschooling look like day to day—and how do you know it's enough?This is where most parents start to second-guess everything.If you've ever lwondered, “Is this enough?”—you're not alone.We're unpacking one of the most common fears in unschooling:What learning actually looks like when it doesn't look like school.With no worksheets, no visible lessons, and no clear benchmarks… it can feel like nothing is happening. But that's not what's going on.We'll talk about: Why unschooling feels “too unstructured”  Where that pressure to do more comes from  What learning actually looks like in everyday real life  Why confidence comes and goes—and how to handle that If you've been second-guessing your choices or worried your child is falling behind, let's reframe what you're seeing—and what really counts.

Although few people give the future of a newborn child much thought, as they grow and mature there is a greater temptation to want to assure that future. Worth repeating is that parents are not responsible for the children's future other than to prepare them in a general way so as not to limit their possibilities. This is where unschooling has an enormous advantage over any kind of school. Understanding the homogenizing nature of school allows you to see how unschooling is so much better at preparing students for the future: we develop each child in keeping with who they are as compared to what schools do which is to move them toward what they “should” be. There is a very big difference between these two objectives. Considering that there is no faith involved in school-based approaches to education, it is easy to see that their aim is to develop children toward what man desires rather than what God has ordained. This is why the biggest outcome of a twelve-year school education is likely to be generally confusion. Not so with the unschooled who have been loved as they are, encouraged to learn what interests them, and entrusted with the responsibility for their lives. Making children comfortable with who they are and confident in themselves and their faith is the aim and purpose of unschooling. So why would any loving parent willingly sabotage their children's well being by sending them to school or forcing them to post-secondary training? Truth is no loving parent would do that, but misinformed and misdirected parents could. The world has wholeheartedly adopted a government-knows-best attitude that is not boding well for the future. Most people have internalized this mindset, even going so far as to Christianize it in private schools. When the world is on this trajectory, it is extremely difficult to avoid falling into the vortex of unquestioning obedience to government fiat. Add peer pressure to that and you have a formula for delaying children's God-given futures. Twenty years ago, an article I wrote for the provincial home education association was rejected by the board when I boldly stated that Christian home education boils down to a question of faith. Repeating what Joshua had asked of the Israelites, “Choose this day whom you will serve,” the article was deemed offensive and was never published. Twenty years later, I am more convinced than ever that the success of Christian unschooling is directly proportional to the level of faith involved. Those who love and trust God intrinsically know He has their children's best interest at heart. After all, He picked mom and dad to be His vessels in preparing His children for their futures, something He happens to know about! This is Christian home education. https://eu-wp-media.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2026/01/18-Post-Secondary-2.mp3

Ever wondered about the transformative power of free play in a child's life? Prepare for a fascinating conversation with Dr. Peter Gray, an evolutionary psychologist and child development expert, as we journey through his research on self-directed learning and the crucial role of play in development and learning. Drawing from his personal experiences and groundbreaking research, Dr. Gray offers insights into the Sudbury Valley School's self-directed learning model and its potential to shape fulfilling lives. We dig deep into how self-directed education morphs the lines between work and play, and its ripple effects on children's lives. The conversation gets crucial as we navigate the alarming ascendance of ADHD and the use of medication. Dr. Gray underscores the importance of play in counterbalancing these concerns and the potential long-term effects of these drugs. Shifting gears, we probe into the decline of play and children's freedom since the 1950s and the societal factors contributing to this disconcerting trend. Bracing ourselves, we venture into the intimidating process of unschooling. Based on a study, we tackle how parents can conquer their fears and the scrutiny of others by finding a supportive community of like-minded individuals. As we wrap up, Dr. Gray leaves us with an inspiring message about the transformative power of free play in children's lives, reminding parents of the significant role they play. This episode is not just a conversation, it's a paradigm shift in understanding learning and play. Tune in and witness this shift. TED Talks with Dr. Peter Gray: The Decline of Play How Our Schools Thwart Passions Substack for Peter Gray Books by Dr. Gray: Free to Learn Mother Nature's Pedagogy: Biological Foundations for Children's Self-Directed Education How Children Acquire "Academic" Skills Without Formal Instruction Evidence that Self-Directed Education Works The Harm of Coercive Schooling SCHOOL TO HOMESCHOOL RESOURCES:  Janae's Links for Vintage Books Sign Up for the School to Homeschool Newsletter School to Homeschool YouTube Channel CONNECT WITH US! Instagram Facebook janae@schooltohomeschool.com

In this episode Mirabelle is reflecting on her recent role in a performance of Alice in Wonderland, as well as her new science club, experiments exploring friction, and her latest cold war topic.  Meanwhile Asher's building a new chicken run, cooking fajitas and sharing about a couple of junior parkrun milestones he's reached!

We're back with another On the Journey episode! We had a rich conversation with Living Joyfully Network member Lucia Silva. Lucia was previously on the podcast in episode 251, Unschooling as a Lifestyle. She is an unschooling mom of two and she came back to share some updates about her unschooling journey. We talked about trusting our children’s learning journeys, Lucia’s inner growth and mindset shifts, as well as her experience in the Living Joyfully Network and how the community has supported her over the years. It was a really beautiful discussion and we hope you find it helpful! THINGS WE MENTION IN THIS EPISODE We invite you to join us in The Living Joyfully Network, a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid discussions about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Come and be part of the conversation! Sign up to our mailing list on Substack to receive our email newsletters as well as new articles about learning, parenting, and so much more! Watch the video of our conversation on YouTube. EU251: Unschooling as a Lifestyle with Lucia Silva Follow @pamlaricchia on Instagram and Facebook. Check out our website, livingjoyfully.ca for more information about navigating relationships and exploring unschooling. So much of what we talk about on this podcast and in the Living Joyfully Network isn't actually about unschooling. It's about life. On The Living Joyfully Podcast, Anna Brown and Pam Laricchia talk about life, relationships, and parenting. You can check out the archive here, or find it in your your favorite podcast player. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ERIKA: Hello, everyone. I’m Erika Ellis from Living Joyfully, and I’m joined by my co-hosts, Anna Brown and Pam Laricchia, as well as our guest today, Lucia Silva. Hello to you all! PAM, ANNA, AND LUCIA: Hello! ERIKA: Before we begin our conversation with Lucia, I wanted to invite you to join us in the Living Joyfully Network, which has really been life changing for me in so many ways. On the Network, we have such great discussions about so many topics. Our community has such a wide variety of experiences, and everyone’s really interested in learning and growing and being intentional with their families. It’s really unlike any other online community I’ve found. Being part of the Network offers powerful support, especially during those moments when fears pop up or if you’re new to unschooling and just need a place where people understand what you’re going through. If you’d like to learn more about the Network and check it out for yourself, you can visit livingjoyfully.ca and click on Network at the top of the page. And we’ll also leave a link for that in the show notes. We would love to meet you. So I’m very excited that we get to talk to Lucia today. I met Lucia on the Living Joyfully Network and have just loved getting to know her over the years. And she was also on the podcast back in episode 251 and shared her journey to unschooling in that episode. I encourage everyone to check that out as well. And we’re excited to dive in for an update five and a half years later, which is wild. So Lucia, we would love to hear what everyone is interested in right now. LUCIA: Five and a half years later sounds like, in the scope of kid time, it’s so long. It’s so long. And then thinking, how long have you been unschooling? Five and a half years still seems really new. So, it’s interesting to think about those elastic times. And it was fun to see how some things are just so similar. I’m sure you guys see that with your kids. But, wow, I can connect where they’re into the exact same thing. So there’s four of us. It’s me and my husband, Micah, and my two kids. They’re older now. To respect their privacy, I’m not going to be using their names. And I’ll just refer to them with neutral pronouns. They said I could talk about them in general. My oldest child is still really into ballet. And that’s their primary passion. And that has remained strong, grown, changed a little bit. It’s not what they want to do professionally, but it is just a primary part of their lives. They’re also still really into reading and drawing and making. They have a great friend group. And they do lots of fun stuff. I just dropped them off at the botanical gardens to hang out with friends this morning. And let’s see, there was one other thing I wanted to mention. I lost my train of thought. My younger child, back when I originally did the podcast, they were really into building and constructing items out of stuff. And I had not really forgotten, even though we still have a lot of that preserved in the garage. But they’re really into building tabletop games, mostly card games. They’re constantly inventing new games. We’ve brought a lot of them to the table, done a lot of design. We’ve taken them to little fairs and sold lots of them. And we have game tournaments. They’re kind of based around the Wings of Fire lore, because that’s what their friends were into when they started it. It’s turned into this thing where they have this whole group of friends that are waiting for the next booster pack to come out. But it’s kind of amazing to see connections, from that fascination with construction, like moving pieces, how they fit together. And now it’s, Mom, I have a new game. And it’s this whole fully formed game mechanics and point values. Now it’s branching out to some things that aren’t just trading card games. They’re thinking about what would be a good family game? But mostly card games. So they’re really into that. They’ve gotten really into fencing and chess, which I think are both similar sort of mental games. And they love talking with Micah about probability problems and stuff like that. They’re also really into philosophy and philosophical debate, or debating anything. So that’s that. And I think when we last spoke, Micah, my husband, was a professor at UGA, and he’s now moved into tech. And along that whole journey, so much of what we’ve gone through in our unschooling journey, I’m putting that in air quotes, because it just sort of becomes your entire sort of life philosophy, unschooling. But that has really been so meaningful for him on his journey of just learning the way his mind works, what his interests are, stuff like that. So he’s still in the research, data field, has gotten really into improv and musical improv with a little group here, and plays music all the time. And I am, I think, still doing a lot of the same things. I like to sew, and I’m reading, and I love following little rabbit trails and researching anything and dabbling about here and there. ANNA: So fun. All the things, but how they all weave together, right? You can just picture the household and the weaving together of all the things. ERIKA: I love connecting it back to the old conversation and seeing how that tracks, because we always talk about that, looking back and seeing how those threads connect together. And it just also makes me think, oh my gosh, kids are all so different, the things that they love and are interested in. You can’t predict it. And it's just so interesting. PAM: Yeah, I loved hearing the piece of looking back and now seeing how that is weaving into the things they’re interested in right now, because they can seem very different. Yet, when you look back, you can see the thread that underlies the various things together over time. And that is so interesting, just as a piece of knowledge, just a little bit more understanding about who they are, right? I think that is super cool. Did you want to say something? LUCIA: Oh, just as you were saying that I realized that along the way, I feel like that’s given me, it’s a really important reflection to have when they get interested in something that maybe I’m unsure about, like video games, for example, and thinking, what is happening with all this time? And it’s so easy to see what’s underneath for them. How does this work? How do the team dynamics work? How do I analyze these moves? It doesn’t mean that if you’re not doing that, it’s not important, but there’s always something going on underneath an interest unless they’re not being attended to, right? But if it’s intentional, just like we’re intentional. And seeing that there is that through line and that intention under it. Oh, and then sorry, one other thing about my oldest kiddo, who’s really into working with kids these days. They’re interning at a Waldorf school and they’ve been babysitting a lot too, which is a job, and they assist in the little kids’ classes at our co-op. There’s something underneath it that’s more like a passion rather than just like, oh, I go babysitting. Looking at the intention they bring to that and how respectful they are of the children, their privacy, what they’re going through and what reverence they have for that job. I mean, there’s all kinds of ways to have a job, but also to look at that as we are spending a lot of time doing that because I’m seeing that it is something that is really important to them to do rather than, oh, they’re working or they’re working without getting paid. PAM: All the different stories we can tell ourselves, right? But when we take that moment to actually dive a little bit deeper, so often we can see those threads. We can see the intentionality rather than the surface story that just, oh, I’m taking them to their job. They’re doing this thing. I don’t quite know why they’re not getting paid. Whatever lenses that kind of automatically bubble up, if we take a minute to just dig a little bit deeper and see what else comes up alongside it, it is really exciting. And it helps, as I think back, just helps with the mechanics too. Like I don’t mind driving them to X, Y, Z because I know the impact and what they’re getting out of it. I’m not just a chauffeur or something like that. If I take that as the superficial story of what’s happening, but no, I’m fundamentally supporting their pursuit of something that they are intentionally interested in. Who knows where it will go? We’ve talked a lot about how you really can’t predict it because we can guess but it’s really only looking back where we can see those threads and the connections and go, oh my gosh, I am so glad that I supported and helped with that along the way. ANNA: I just want to say I feel like this is a core piece of unschooling for me, this valuing the experience and the exploration and facilitating that. But it’s hard because it doesn’t necessarily have a product at the end, or it doesn’t necessarily even have a photo op or whatever the thing might be that grounds it in our culture. But gosh, it’s such a big part of it. And when you can take this time to look back, you do see those threads and you do see that growth. And again, it may be that they end up doing something with children, but maybe they’re just building a wealth of information and connection and relationship pieces that’ll be used in some other way. So yeah, just love that. ERIKA: It’s trusting, trusting that they know, right? They know the thing that’s interesting now, and that’s going to lead to something. And I feel like it can be hard because we are always seeing through our own lenses. That’s the part that can be challenging about that for me. I think, but it doesn’t make sense. Or why would you want to spend your time doing that? Or little judgmental feelings can come up just based on what it would be for me, like that interest doesn’t make sense to me. I think if we can drop that part, drop the judgment and just trust that they know themselves and this is going to lead to whatever it needs to lead to for them. I really love them. LUCIA: And it is so hard for people, they really want to attach it to something. Are they going to be a professional dancer? Are they going to go into child development? I’m like, I don’t know. Are you going to become a historian because you learned about the battle of the bulge. I get it. I think they want to know that everything’s okay. I understand it, but it’s important, or it’s been important for me to make my little energetic bubble and go like, yeah, is that cool? No, they don’t want to be a professional dancer because of XYZ or whatever. Then their face falls, oh, but they dance for 12 hours a week. Yes, that’s pretty awesome. That’s still great. It’s very, it’s just interesting when you get so steeped in this, to have to pull yourself out and see through those eyes, right? Remembering, that’s where they are. And I get it. And I’m going to figure out how to talk to you about this in a way that doesn’t make you so worried. PAM: Yes, I would want them to not be worried. Although I have no control over that. I got those questions so many times, especially as your kids get older, right? People start, well, then what are they going to be? Et cetera. And I got to a point where I just loved answering those with, “I don’t know, maybe.” They look at you like, don’t you know your child? LUCIA: Don’t you care? Well, especially as they get older, right? When they’re seven, that’s fine for everybody. When they’re 15 going on 16 and everybody’s talking about college and what are you going to do? And they look at you like, do you not care? Are you going to abandon them? And they’re starting to feel that, not pressure to do, but pressure to answer. Luckily we don’t get that from our family. So, I’d like to care a little bit less, but we’ll encounter adults who are like, what are you going to major in? Oh, are you going to this? Are you going to that? What do I say? It’s like, well, here are the options. We can prepare a little, you can just be out there with it. ERIKA: It depends on how humorous you want to be. You have lots of options. PAM: Oh my goodness. So I wanted to pull back something that you mentioned a little bit earlier and we’ll tie it in with the first interview we did. Episode 251. I do recommend everyone go back there and check out because you talked a lot about your journey to unschooling there. The theme and the title of the episode was unschooling as a lifestyle. And like you said earlier, it just becomes the way you live. So I was curious as you look back, how has your journey evolved so far? Because we know it will continue. And what things have helped you along the way? LUCIA: Well, I did read the transcript of that episode again. I had a vague idea. And it was so interesting to me to see both how I was at the beginning and how I was already like two feet in, here’s what we’re doing. And a lot of the sort of philosophy for lack of a better word, or like the ideas now are just, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I know then that my yes was a different kind of yes. It just had a different feel and I was really eager and trying hard. And now a lot of those things just feel like, Oh wow. I can’t believe I was worried about that. That was my primary focus. I totally remember feeling that way. And I was thinking of Pam’s unschooling journey. Also, that was the first book that I read. That’s what it’s called, right? The Unschooling Journey. PAM: Yes. LUCIA: And thinking about the Network as this constant companion and knowing that the unschooling journey is based around this idea of the hero’s journey as the journey into and through unschooling. And I’m thinking about how many times we do that journey in this spiral, right? This big sort of macro journey of we won’t do that and we won’t do this and let go of that. And we’re okay with this and then you go the next layer in and in and in, and now we’re sort of on this really micro journey where sort of everything spins around more quickly. I enter an unfamiliar situation or way of thinking, or how do I feel about this that my kid wants to do? How do I feel about this and do a little whole circle of a journey with that. And I realized that for me, and I think for a lot of us who are part of the Network, that it’s a mix of a companion, a champion, an oracle, like all of the things that those mystical mythical heroes come upon that reveal some little truth, here’s a little encouragement, here’s your magic potion to keep you going. But, for me, symbolically, there is no way, I guess I won’t say there’s no way I could have done it without the Network. But I know that my life is just totally different because of it. I know that every relationship I have is totally different because of it. I know that our family is totally different because of it. And it’s funny, because I never get to talk about the Network. I think all the people outside my life know that I’m part of this unschooling network. They know it's this online thing, and I have to go to a Zoom all the time. People will ask, why do you have all these Zoom meetings? Do you have a job? I’m like, no, no, I have, it’s a very important meeting I have to go to. Because there are all these layers to it. When we started, I approached it the same way I approached listening to the podcast as like, I was in mentorship mode. And I still am in a different way. I remember, every week, as soon as the talk came out, I would listen to it. And then Micah and I would sit together on the couch at night, and I’d either play certain parts, we’d listen to the whole thing. We were steeping in this lecture series, and then we’d talk about it. And I’d make notes and have these things I wanted to keep top of mind that week. And I could feel that transformation of ideas come loose in me and be like, okay, these are ideas I want to steep in. But then, I think I was maybe a little hesitant sometimes to post in the network, but I realized so quickly how much I learned from reading other people sharing it, everybody commenting and realizing this is unlike any other place that I’ve been. And in the same way that unschooling is unlike any other place that I’ve been. If you think of this as the ultimate community for that based on intentionality, and not based on this set of rules and ideals. Which is so funny that a lot of the homeschooling and unschooling communities online turn into exactly that. Because I think people look for advice. And there’s always one person who wants to be the expert. And that person ends up being the quote, unquote, expert and having the rules and you’re either in or you’re outside of that. And what I love seeing, even now, when somebody new comes into the Network, I learned so much from reading their new posts and the new things they’re wondering about. And I learned so much from people who are dealing with things that could seem totally irrelevant to me and my family. You learn so quickly how to read into the core of that relevance, how to offer support from your own experience to receive support from that shared experience. And the ability to share those things and be in a space that is really without judgment, which is so weird. Especially when you’re dealing with something that feels like a high principle, or just high intentionality. Most of those spaces, and I’ve been in a lot that have to do with unschooling, but also that have to do with health or lots of other things, and it can feel like there’s this sort of untouchable expert at the center, or this untouchable idea, and we’re all sort of at the feet of that. And feeling like we have this communal place, or real community, but also there’s this strong architecture that makes it so that anybody who walks into that space knows, gets the vibe. You can read the room really quickly, what’s going to be allowed here and not allowed here. There’s just not any bad behavior. So it feels really safe in those ways. But now it just lives in my head, all three of your voices live in my head, other people’s voices live in my head, phrases that people have said that I’ve written on a Post-it and stuck on my wall. So that sometimes throughout my day, like, I’ll be like, oh, okay, I’m feeling uncertain about this. I got to post in the Network. But I can write the whole post and all the answers before I even do it. I realized that’s why I’m maybe posting less, and I think I should just do this anyway, because it was so helpful for me then. And I love knowing that there are people in there who have been in there since I was there, whose kids are much older, and who aren’t visibly active so much. But just the other day, I posted something that was kind of a tender post. And immediately someone who had been in the group since I joined, who I wasn’t even sure was part of the group anymore, because I didn’t see them, but I thought about them as we’ve had some dialogue, and they just messaged me the loveliest message. Just knowing that there are people for whom this is so important. And just looking at the calls, I get so emotional sometimes when someone is sharing something. And everybody’s giving space, holding space, giving feedback, whatever it is. And I see these 16 tiles of faces. And I think these are parents all around the world, who are dedicating their Saturday morning or afternoon or whatever it is, to talking about their families and their self development as caring people who are stewards of other people in the world. And that just blows me away. I think that in and of itself is so powerful. ANNA: I feel like you captured it in a way that I don’t know that I could, because I think it’s really hard to explain to people. Because we do have those calls every week, we’ve been having them since we started in 2020. And I think of all of those weeks that we’ve had calls. And that’s the piece too, that this web of people all over the world, bringing such intention and there isn’t one path. And you know that we don’t ever talk about there’s one right way or one way to be. But gosh, have I learned so much from just seeing other people navigating all the different pieces in their life. And again, it may be a relationship issue, and maybe I’m not having that problem in my relationship, but just steeping in that intentionality and growth mindset is so powerful for me individually, and then just the collective of it is incredible. But yeah, I just am so grateful for you being there. And you really have seen it from the beginning and how it’s grown and what it looks like. I just really appreciated that and got very emotional, because it is, it’s so powerful. LUCIA: Yeah, and the growth mindset part of it. I think maybe you get lucky to meet a few people along the way in your real life who are invested in that. And I feel so lucky to have that in my partner, Micah, that’s where we are too, that is so important and central. And some people do have that with friends, but to be in a community of people where that’s their focus. And I think it’s maybe the kind of community that some other people may find in a totally different way in, like a church or something. I always wanted that type of community without any of the one right way, or the dogma piece. Even with the most wonderful ones, there’s a book we’re going to go back to, or there’s a principle we’re going to go back to. Well, our principles are there’s no one right way. Everybody’s different. These expansive ideas. Some people are nervous to come on the calls. At first, I know that I was, sometimes I'm even nervous now. But it’s hard to describe what it feels like once you’re there. It doesn’t feel like how I imagined, how can you create a warm, kind of magical community online on Zoom? I don’t know how it happened. But I think it’s just exactly that. You guys are the stewards of people coming together in this container with this intentionality, and everybody sort of rises to that occasion. And to do that kind of work in my life constantly is absolutely transformational. It’s changed every relationship I have. Really. ERIKA: It speeds up the process for me. I feel like being around people who are constantly kind of reminding me of things that I need to work through or things I want to process. It helps me grow faster. I don’t know if that’s the right word. But that’s what it feels like. I don’t know if I would have gotten to these places. You know? PAM: That’s the word that keeps coming up for me. This whole conversation is intentional, right? It’s like with that intentionality, and just showing up with that openness and curiosity. Okay, we’re going to go open and curious. Showing up with that piece, instead of the dogma, the direction, the measuring against, am I doing it right? Those are the pieces that we work hard to dispel, really, right? Which on one hand feels really good, there’s no rules to follow. And then on the other hand, it’s like, oh, what do I replace that with? What do I do if I don’t have a rule to orient myself towards? But that’s where the openness, the curiosity, and the intentionality come in. It’s the intentionality piece, like you mentioned, Erika, that helps with the moving forward versus feeling stuck. And I understand your hesitation about using the word fast to describe it, but maybe faster. It's the reminder to visit those things. And also the compassion when we don’t have the capacity in the moment, and the space, as you mentioned, just the space, right? Just the open space that’s there for whatever is going on. But I think that brings me back to the book, The Unschooling Journey, because number one, I love that you talked about the commonality of the different roles and people, mentors, and monsters. We talked about that a little while ago in the network, things that seem like maybe they’re getting in your way, but really, maybe they’re bringing messages. And that side is super interesting. And to see when we’re spiraling or using that journey, how we can go more quickly, because we have more experience, and we have more language to help ourselves walk through those pieces, to remember, oh, yeah, this is my intention. This is why I want to do this. And oh, yeah, this is new. Why is this bubbling up now? We’re always talking about that. It’s not that we don’t have challenges in life, we can just notice them a little bit more quickly, and move through them a little bit more quickly, because we gained these tools on what to do, instead of following the one path, right? ANNA: That’s what I was going to say. We talk about that a lot. It’s not like this makes it the panacea, that nothing ever happens. It’s not all rainbow and sunshines. But wow, do I catch myself faster. I reorient faster. I get back to connection faster. I just slow things down to be able to be present with whatever’s happening faster than if I didn’t have that. So I think that’s the piece, because it keeps happening, keeps happening, all these decades later. And there’s such a gift to it. And like you’re saying, I think it is faster, but there’s no end point. And I also appreciated you saying, Lucia, that it’s not always comfortable for people. I think some people come to an environment like the Network, and it isn’t comfortable because the one answer idea feels easier. Like, if you just give me the one answer, I’ll do it. That’s how we were trained in school. Tell me what I’m supposed to do, and I’ll do it. I’ll exceed the expectation. This is a little scarier in some ways, I think. But if you can just get past that fear piece of it, and kind of steep in that container of acceptance and curiosity, it’s so empowering. It just opens up so many possibilities. And I think it really speaks to people when they can get past that piece of, but wait, I don’t want to do it wrong. PAM: I was just going to say, that reminds me of, Pam, don’t lose it. When you mentioned it, Lucia, too, like when questions or challenges and things come up that don’t directly relate to things that are going on in our life, but it is still so useful to think through because it’s the foundational processes, right? It’s the tools that we’re using. How do we apply the tools in this situation and in that situation? And that is just so much more deeply useful because then that’s understanding the tools and how you apply it in different places. It just gives us so much more experience on the breadth of how I might take this tool and apply it to all sorts of different things. I think of when we first come to unschooling and you encounter a challenge and you go and you ask, and you get an answer and you’re like, oh great, that worked great. And then another challenge comes up a few months later. It’s like, oh my gosh, I don’t know what to do. I need to go ask and you ask and you get it, et cetera. If you’re not taking that intentional step to foundationally understand what’s the connection between why these different answers are working for me. I just find for me, I always need to go back and ask somebody because I haven’t learned the foundational stuff, gone underneath all that, where I can now think through something and help myself through it, et cetera. I don’t know if that makes sense. ANNA: Okay, wait, just really quickly. I think this is making me, sorry, this is making me think about why it makes it faster is because, and maybe it’s personality driven too, but I’m experiencing to some extent all of the issues. We have a member that’s gone through like house flooding and having to move and all the things she's navigating. Oh my gosh, I’m thinking of your thing with the fire extinguisher, Lucia. I haven’t gone through those things physically and yet I was able to sit with it, hold the container, process it myself, think about what that would mean. So I think that’s what makes it faster because we only have so many experiences in our life but I don’t need all of those personally to learn more. There’s something interesting about that. ERIKA: Yeah, I learned a lot about fire extinguishers from you, Lucia. I also, I wanted to pull back that other bit that I love that you said about intentional communities are often rule-based. I think that’s so interesting to think about. Maybe other people that we meet that are very focused on growth and intention, they are trying to do things the right way though. And so our intention is totally different because it’s an intention about figuring out how people are different and being open and curious, An intention to be curious about things, which just, it feels very different. LUCIA: Yeah, I mean, I wish it existed. I wish there was a beautiful room I could go to and be next to people and eat cookies and coffee afterwards. It’s like totally that part of it, but I realized it would be great if the world would be different. You reminded me when you were talking about going through all of these things, even if they’re not your experience. I realized that a lot of what I used to do and still kind of do it out of habit, a fear-based habit, when I would hear about someone had this emergency and they were misdiagnosed and it turned out I would catalog, okay, if they have a rash on their palms, they check for Kawasaki disease. I was cataloging these, okay, if my kid’s not talking by this age, I have to demand whatever it was, some fear-based, okay, I’m going to arm myself with this practical knowledge that will fend off any bad eventuality. And as we were talking, I realized that’s what we get, this real sort of other meta prevention, which is like we’re not going to prevent anything bad or practical happening, but what we have, we’re going to go through the same thing with it. If I’m feeling really strong about that, my priority is connection with the people involved, choosing out of love, being open and curious, all of the things that foundationally can feel like safety when so many things feel scary. Whether it’s that your kid’s playing video games or that they have an illness or that there’s a challenge. That there’s a different kind of safety, whereas I have always ascribed safety to rules and following best practices and figuring out the best way. So, this is something I’m still working on, but I like the concept. ANNA: Me too. I do think, because I think our brain can be, you and I are very similar in that, and well, all four of us really, knowing the four of us as I do. I think we all want to, we have that brain that’s cataloging and thinking all the things. But for me, that deep breath into, there’s plenty of time, staying in this moment, being open and curious really is the thing that provides me the most peace and safety, because I think it was so stressful for me when I thought I was preparing for every eventuality, especially in my first pregnancy, and then everything went to hell in a hand basket. It’s like, but wait, I did everything the “right way”, and that got me stuck, right? But I don’t get stuck there anymore, because I know things are going to happen, but what I know is that I can be present, I can have these connections, I can have these relationships, and that we’re going to figure it out. That feels more like real safety to me than what I was kind of chasing when I was younger with trying to do everything perfectly. PAM: I love that. ANNA: Okay, so I want to go to our next question, because I think it’s interesting. Something you’ve talked about on the network and reflected upon on calls is just observations about your kids and their relationship to themselves, and how you’ve seen them evolve as they’ve grown in this environment that you’ve created. How they move through the world, and so are there any little bits that you feel comfortable sharing just about your experience of that. LUCIA: Yeah, I mean, it has been so interesting. This is an area where I can so directly see. Where I’m just practically learning from them, just by observing how someone else can be in the world, and being someone who is shaped totally differently by an experience of looking outside and adhering to outside standards to determine how I feel, when I need rest, what kind of food I’m eating. To see the opposite of that, of people who have such a strong basis in that type of self-knowledge, intuition, self-reflection, and all bolstered by, I don’t want to say extreme, but just actual autonomy of being. And I don’t want to say I've given them autonomy, they’re not being prevented from being autonomous beings who have agency over so many areas of their lives, as much as possible. I believe that’s part of how they’ve developed this. Just watching how to do it. There’s no question, if they need to rest, they’re going to rest at this time, and if they they’re going to eat this kind of food, they’re going to eat this kind of food, and just this really strong conviction of anybody who gets in the way of that. And they’re not rude people, but it’s about people who press back on that, are you really going to eat that? You’ve been in bed all day, etc. They have no tolerance for that type of external judgment, and they have sensitive humor about it. They function pretty well in the world, but things that I’m so uncomfortable with, I feel like this is the big personal project of my life to try and unravel the ideas of, have I done enough work to deserve rest? What should a person of my age, what am I capable of doing in a day? Really having lost total touch with what I actually need to be resourced, and then living with people who are in total touch with what they need. And so, kind of going back to this idea of what are they going to do with their lives or major in, and also what we’ve been talking about as our process is in being open and curious, and all of these principles. That’s what they’re majoring in, right? You can do anything if you’re open and curious, you have a relationship with yourself that is grounded in trust or intuition. People see this, they will say, they’re so amazing, they’re such a pleasure to talk to, they just know who they are, but where are they going to go to college? You just answered your own question, so it’s fine. But really, it’s just a total flip side of priorities of what starts to happen being steeped in something like this is where those priorities come up and change. My oldest child was diagnosed with severe scoliosis a few years ago. A total S curve, and they deemed it surgical immediately. They would need surgery, and just in that room, they were just, I think they were 13 at the time, anyway, and just asked the surgeon questions, like, oh, what would happen if we wait? Do we need to do this now? The doctors started with when is your ballet break? When are we going to schedule the surgery? And then answered well, you should probably do this before you’re 22 or 23. They were like, okay, so let’s wait. What are the other options? I’m using a little more confrontational tone than they did. But they said those things on their own. And then in the car later was said, they put their hands on my back without even asking. And I had to step back from not taking that as like, Oh, I really messed up. That’s my job. But I come from an era where doctors did all kinds of things without asking. A lot of things, especially for a child, but that they would expect having very little experience with that for a doctor to say, Hey, can I touch your back? They’ve received no education about that. That’s just what they mean, well, they have by living in a world of the person who’s respected, autonomous. So, that’s how they walked through that whole journey and ended up doing really intense physical therapy and loved their physical therapist. And it turned into this whole fascination with the body and how the body works and alignment and, learning that they were hyper mobile and reading books about this. And so they have a whole fascination with physical therapy and physiology now. But ended up being deemed by that same doctor a year later, that their curve was corrected by like 14 degrees. And the doctor said, I would not recommend surgery anymore. They have no pain, a total success story for them. But again, there were all kinds of practical and sort of more emotional parts of how that is supported, right? One is being willing to go out on a limb and run a ledge and be the outsider who’s not going to do the surgery, being willing to do that, right? You have to, again, step outside of this sort of echo chamber, everybody’s going, this is what you do, this is what you do, it’s going to be your fault if you don’t do this. And just taking in all of the information, looking at the person in front of you asking all of the questions, getting all the information and going, Yes, let’s try this. And then being 100% willing to drive them to physical therapy four times a week, for a year, and them being willing to do it. And I’m having the time to do that in the middle of the day. And so many times I was more in it, in a practical sense. I think during that year, we didn't have time for a lot of other things. And they were getting older, we were doing just little, and that faltering that you have along the way. Is it enough? And Micah was like, look how much they’ve learned about themselves, their body, their relationship with their body, their relationship with all kinds of things this year, I realized, yes, wow. And seeing now a couple years later, what a big role that had in their life. For some people, that story is different and also meaningful for them. They have a surgery, they have this long recovery, they have limited mobility, there’s an identity in that. And for my kiddo, they got this experience that fit their personality, which was to be in their body, get really in tune with, I mean, as a dancer, that’s how they relate to themselves. So it just expanded this vision for them of what is happening for them in their body, in their role, what it means, and the kind of relationship they can have with their body. I think that really started to solidify for them, a core piece of the way they walk through the world, which I think could feel like an insignificant little side trail for some people. That was the year I had scoliosis and got the surgery or whatever, which is, again, the right path for some. It is not the right path for every 13 year old to do physical therapy every day on their own and in an office for two hours. But that’s what they wanted to do. And there was a lot of support and scaffolding needed. And then a lot of trust to know when they got to a place where they didn’t need to do as much, and I was still in the like, well, have you done this today? Have you done that? And they were like, no, I can feel it. I can feel my alignment, I can feel I’m doing okay. And I realized that they had integrated this into their whole, that’s the way they are, is that they’re constantly sort of being in that spiraling place of alignment in their body. And I got to see it on an x-ray, which we don’t get to see when we’re talking about emotional things, right? There was this kind of parallel for me to get that level of trust with things that are not as evident or not physical around ways they’re thinking about things they want to explore, and to trust that all of that is just as valid, if not more than filling out the transcript, we would have filled out for a ninth grade year. Which is also challenging to come up against. ANNA: It’s so interesting to think about that journey and how when we look at the threads, that piece of who they are with dance, that was there before. And so I think that’s the piece you trusted for them to be in dance six days a week for years, because it was that important to them. And now you see that they’re taking that experience into all these other pieces and all these other realms. And then their ability to be able to say, to know that I can ask my questions, I deserve for somebody to talk to me and answer my questions. That’s just really powerful at 13 years old, and I know they’re both like that in different realms. That they have that experience. And I think that is one of the big things that we touch on. That’s a big difference that I see is, I feel like we were talking about it in the network not too long ago of just this kind of adults as authority or the enemy that we kind of structure it that way in our culture. And I think it’s so different when we can have that collaborative relationship between adults and children. I think everybody’s better off. I feel like that surgeon learned a lot through that experience. And they still may value surgery, because that’s what they do. And they love it. But they learned something. I think having that collaboration just helps everybody involved, no matter what path is chosen. PAM: I just wanted to bring it back, Lucia, I loved your point about how you could see the results on the x-ray. But it’s just beautiful to recognize that you had that moment, and you could see the intentionality that they were bringing to this whole process, and the choices that they were making, and how that was fitting with who they are as a person through their other choices and activities. But to understand, like you said, for other journeys, and emotional ones, just the different kinds of choices that a person, child or adult, makes in their life, that they are perfectly capable of bringing that same level of intentionality to it. So that even if we don’t quite understand why they’re making those choices, we’re going to trust it the same as the one that we could more visually comprehend because of its particular circumstances. But to recognize that they are just so friggin capable of that, of being in the world and of choosing how intentional or how deep they want to go with a particular interest, or choice or, I’ve had enough of that. I don’t want to go any deeper, I don’t want to push any harder. I want to quit. That whole piece that is still with intention, that is a choice that they are making. That is totally there, like you were saying, that authenticity, whatever word one wants to use. I just think that was such a great point. And to recognize the intentionality that they so often bring to things that we can’t see, often we can’t see the impact, again, looking back is easier as well. But yeah, I love that piece. ERIKA: It’s such a beautiful example of that. And I feel like our kids who have grown up with this kind of autonomy and being more in touch with who they are as a different person than we are, I feel like that helps me remember, there’s not one right way. That’s literally what your child told the doctor’s, there’s not one right way, just telling the surgeon, there are going to be other ways to do this, and we’ll figure it out. And I think it’s such a great reminder when my kids do that, because I think I was so schooled. So, you just get to a point where it feels like, oh, when this happens, you do this. And if this and this, this is the right way to do that. And that’s the right way to do this. There’s just a lot of peeling back all those layers of expectations, or just feeling like, what are people gonna think? All of these different judgmental parts that we have. I remembered recently, I asked my youngest, are you interested in traveling? Because in the past, that’s been something that we’ve talked about a lot and really enjoyed as a family. And it seemed like they really liked it too. And the answer was, not right now. And I was like, that is such a great answer that I would not have been able to give at that age. Because it just kind of leaves space to change. I’m not gonna say I’m not a traveler. But right now, I know I’m not in the season where I would enjoy that. And, I’m just like, wow, it just feels like such a more mature response. Your child at the surgeon is a much more mature response than I would have been able to have at that time. I would have been taken over by the authority feeling. So anyway, I think the kids are amazing. ANNA: Yes. Two other things that came to mind about this whole piece, I’m going to try not to lose them. So one is, this is back to the x-ray and being able to see it, but not always being able to see it, whatever the journey for them is. And I think it’s just important to say out loud that we may never see it, we may never see the actual x-ray, right? Sometimes we can look back and we can see the threads. And we can see how that really led into this developmental piece. But sometimes we’ll never see it because we’re different human beings, we’re never going to be inside of them. And I think that can, again, feel scary, or it can feel kind of exciting, to know there is this person on their own journey, and I trust their journey. But that can be tricky. So that stuck out for me. And then the other piece you said about how people recognize, oh, they’re so self aware and easy to talk to. And then where are they going to school? Or what is their next step? It just reminded me, so you know, I work with a lot of adults and couples and I just wish people could understand that piece that you’re talking about. That’s the reason why they’re coming to seek help in their 40s and 50s. And 30s is because they don’t have it. It’s not because they didn’t go to school, or they didn’t have the career, they did all those things that they were supposed to do. But they can’t figure out, who’s who am I? What is my voice? What matters to me? And so for me, these kids that we see, because I mean, we’ve been at this for almost 30 years now, Pam, these kids that we see growing up in this lifestyle and moving on, that is the piece that they have, even through the bumps, and even through the maybe not figuring it out, or tough times, because it’s hard to become an adult and figure out all the things. It’s not that it’s without bumps. But they do have that core sense of who they are, they do have this sense of, yeah, I can ask people for things, I deserve to have that collaboration. It is just such a different feel. Go ahead, Pam. PAM: Yeah, so what bubble, they know who they are. And tying back to what Erika said, they know they can change. Yes, that they aren’t static. I know who I am. And this is static. And now everything that happens around me, I must measure against that vision of myself, and respond that way. No, that they have a sense of who they are, and a sense of how they can change, that that change isn’t bad, or wrong, or that who I was two years ago is now wrong, because I see things differently. LUCIA: Without that, I feel like I was so oriented, like Erika, I was very well schooled in how I was being observed, how I was being interpreted, how I was being identified, and then identified with those identifications. I’m this, I’m that. And so really feeling this pressure to be that and always falling short of that. And then seeing kids who just have no relationship to that. It’s like it doesn’t exist. It’s so weird. And I can feel it. I felt it. It’s so easy to see with the ballet piece, because you’re going to talk about something where you’re just looking at a mirror all day, right? How do you escape that? And it’s not that they’re not aware of the toxicity around ballet and dance. And that’s why they don’t want to do it professionally. But they are an unbelievably gifted dancer, their musicality and technique, combined with the amount of hard work that they want to put into it is astounding. It’s hard to not go, but you could be that, everybody thinks you’re that. If it were me, that’s all I ever wanted was to actually be that good, right? And to realize, oh, wow, that’s what they don’t have, which is why they love it. Why half the days they wake up and they’re like, I love my life. Instead of just what I remember is just the pain of being inadequate. And everybody’s going to experience that no matter what kind of life you grow up in. But that’s not inadequacy is not the central driving force to overcome. It’s amazing to watch. It’s amazing to be around people who are not oriented to an external reflection of who they are, I guess. That’s what I would like to speed up for myself. ERIKA: Well, this has been so much fun. And thank you so much, Lucia, for joining us. We hope everyone enjoyed the conversation and maybe had an aha moment or picked up some ideas to consider on your own unschooling journey. And if you enjoy conversations like these, I really do think you would love the Living Joyfully Network. It’s such an amazing group of people connecting and having thoughtful conversations about all the different things we encounter in our unschooling lives. So we invite you to check it out and see if it fits with our free month offer. You can find the link in the show notes or you could just go to livingjoyfully.ca and the link is right on the homepage. So thanks for joining us and we’ll see you next time!

Most parents ask, “Can I homeschool if I still need to work?”Laresia and her family didn't just ask that question—they built a life that answers it.In this episode, we talk about what happens when you choose homeschooling before you even become a parent, and how that decision shaped everything—from family connection to raising a child who is already thinking like an entrepreneur.Their 9-year-old son isn't just learning at home… He's writing and publishing books, learning stock trading, and building real-world skills most adults were never taught.We also get into: What homeschooling an only child actually looks like (social life + community)  How Classical Conversations works in real life  Why creativity and imagination often get shut down in traditional school  How they approach raising a child without a fixed path The mindset shift that allows families to “level up” without pressure And if you've ever wondered how families actually make working + homeschooling work… I break down the patterns I've seen from interviewing 200+ families and how you can apply them.If you're thinking about homeschooling—but feel stuck on the how—this episode will open your mind to what's possible.Find Laresia & Family: https://kidpreneurconnection.com/- https://www.youtube.com/@areeson2love- https://corelife365.com/

Text Sue what you think!How do unschoolers learn math without a curriculum?Can kids really learn math without school—and how do you know it's enough?Here's a real “day in the life” of an unschooling teen. See exactly where math shows up—hour by hour—without worksheets, textbooks, or formal lessons.If you've been wondering: how do kids learn math without curriculum  is real life math enough  am I doing enough math in our homeschool  what about unschooling math gaps …you'll get a clear, practical look at how math naturally develops through everyday life.Real life Math examples like:Mental math, estimation, math in daily routines Math in video games  Cooking, shopping, and budgeting  Sports, timing, decision-making  Problem-solving,  estimation But here's the struggle you'll recognize—Noticing is Step 1 - Seeing it in YOUR kids's lives is the Next Level.We talk about why so many parents feel confident after seeing examples like this… and then fall back into doubt—and what actually helps build long-term confidence with unschooling math.If you're transitioning from homeschool curriculum, questioning traditional math approaches, or trying to trust unschooling, this episode will help you start recognizing what's already happening—and understand what comes next.

Unschooling gets talked about like it's one thing, but in reality, it's a whole spectrum. In this episode, we're digging into what unschooling actually looks like across that range, from fully hands-off to intentionally supported, and everything in between. We talk about the balance between freedom and support, why exposure and access matter more than people realize, and how unschooling can be incredibly powerful - especially for neurodivergent kids - when it's done thoughtfully. This isn't a “you're doing it wrong” conversation. It's a real one. Because the goal isn't perfection or judgment.  It's understanding what actually helps kids thrive.As promised in the episode, here's an excerpt from the book co-written by Meagan and her daughter Astrid. https://bit.ly/UnschoolingExcerpt We'd love to invite you to join our book club.  Reading books among community matters so much. Homeschooling can feel isolating, but processing complex topics alongside like-minded people helps fill your cup, sharpen your thinking, and remind you that you're not navigating this alone. Our next book club selection is How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk.  Click here to learn more: ⁠https://bit.ly/HMUPatreon⁠  Use code BOOKWORM for 90% of your first month!  Would you like personalized coaching from Meagan or Amanda (or both)???? We offer consultation services. Feel free to take a look at our respective bios and book a time that is convenient for you.⁠https://calendly.com/homeschoolmomsunfiltered⁠ Jumpstart your homeschooling with our online courses:Homeschool 101: The No-Panic Boot Camp - https://bit.ly/homeschool101support And, purchase the workbook here:  https://a.co/d/fehPA6G The Smart Start Guide to Homeschool Curriculum - https://bit.ly/curriculumhelpme And purchase the workbook here:  https://a.co/d/07MZXbn6 Preschool and Kindergarten, Reimagine: A Complete Guide for Homeschooling Littles  - https://bit.ly/earlyed1 Find Meagan's books here: 101 Comebacks to Homeschool Objections: Polite replies, powerful comebacks, and everything in between - https://a.co/d/iTRH14Y Unschooling From Both Sides of the Story - https://a.co/d/02HMo6pN Explore Outschool!  Use code BUDGET50 to save 50% off your first three months of membership.https://outschool.com/ Every month we release a themed unit study that is secular and progressive.  We focus on own-voice sources and inclusive learning opportunities.  ⁠https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/store/homeschool-moms-unfiltered⁠ Visit our website here:  ⁠https://homeschoolmomsunfiltered.com/⁠ Let's be friends!!! Follow us on social media for giveaways and updates!!IG: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/homeschoolmomsunfiltered/⁠ FB: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/homeschoolmomsunfiltered⁠ Love Homeschool Moms Unfiltered and want to show your support? ⁠https://www.buymeacoffee.com/homeschoolmomsunfiltered⁠ 

Are you ready to rethink everything you know about education? Join Jae as she sits down with Erica Davis Petrie to explore the transformative world of radical unschooling and game-based learning. This conversation challenges traditional ideas of compliance and conformity, offering a fresh perspective on how to raise self-determined, lifelong learners.In this episode of the Homeschool Yo Kids podcast, Erica shares her extensive experience as a leader in the homeschool community and the coordinator of Game School Con. We dive deep into why unschooling is a powerful tool for liberation, especially within the Black community, and how shifting from a path to a journey can change your family dynamic forever.From heart-wrenching stories of navigating the public school system to the joy of seeing children learn to read through trading cards, this episode is packed with wisdom for every parent. Erica explains the importance of being a partner in your child's education rather than an overseer, and how to use the power of yes and no with intention.

This time round we're sharing the various activities we've been up to over the Easter holidays including a visit to the Staffordshire Regiment Museum, Cadbury World, cloud-watching at Birmingham Botanical Gardens, seeing the Magic Faraway Tree at the cinema, an all-you-can-eat pizza buffet and making Warhammer's miniature of the month. Plus Eden and Mirabelle give the lowdown on their dress rehearsals for their upcoming shows, and Asher's doing an audit.

In this episode, I am talking with Sue Patterson, who lives in Austin Texas. Sue is an unschooling coach, author, and the founder and voice behind Unschooling Mom2Mom. Sue has three adult children, who are now in their thirties, and who were all unschooled. Sue tells of how she came to unschooling when her children were young, after seeing how they were failing to thrive in traditional school. We talk about her deschooling process and how important it is to change the stories in our heads, and to focus on the here and now and the connection with our children. I hope you enjoy the conversation.Connect with SueUnschooling Mom2Mom: http://www.UnschoolingMom2Mom.comCreating Confidence Daily App: https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/creating-confidence-dailyUnschooling Membership Community: https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/creating-confidence-membershipStrewing Calendar: https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/strewing-calendarsIf you'd like to support the podcast and the sharing of these stories, you can do that here.   Thank you!The Parent's Handbook to Unschooling Yourself. A Mindful Guide to Embracing a New Way of Living and Learning With Your ChildYou can find my blog, workshops and courses at:www.esther-jones.comOr, connect with me onInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/estherjones.unschoolingFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheUnschoolSpace

In this episode we are discussing our cute new chicks along with the various breeds of chickens we've had over the years. Mirabelle's sharing about the Oceans film she went to see as part of her ecology study, and the books she's reading on her WW2 topic. Meanwhile Asher's sharing about what he's learnt on Minecraft recently, and Eden is talking about how best to peak with her revision before GCSEs. Plus we're all sharing recommendations and what we're looking forward to over Easter.

Welcome to a new series on the podcast that we're calling A Field Guide, in which we're working our way through Pam's book, The Unschooling Journey: A Field Guide. We're using the chapters of the book as monthly themes in the Living Joyfully Network, which is bringing everything top of mind for us, and got […]

What if the biggest problem with education isn't your child… but the school system itself?In this episode of the Homeschool How To Podcast, Cheryl sits down with Dr. Peter Gray, author of Free to Learn, to talk about what schools get fundamentally wrong about how children actually learn.They discuss the hidden history of schooling, why shame and obedience are still built into the system, how kids learn to read and do math when they're actually ready, and why self-directed learning may be far more effective than most parents have been led to believe.If you've ever wondered whether your child is really “behind,” whether school is preparing kids for life, or whether there's a better way to learn, this conversation will challenge the way you think about education.In this episode, we discuss: what schools were originally designed to do  why forced learning often backfires  reading without a rigid timeline  math anxiety and real-life math  why motivation changes everything  how children learn when they're trusted About Dr. Peter Gray: Dr. Peter Gray is a research professor, psychologist, and author of Free to Learn. His work focuses on self-directed education, play, and the ways modern schooling conflicts with children's natural development.Resources mentioned:Free to Learn by Dr. Peter Gray Dr. Gray's website: https://www.petergray.org/Check out Dr. Gray's SubstackCheryl's eBook- The Homeschool How To: Complete Starter GuideIf this episode encouraged you, be sure to follow the show, leave a review, and share it with a parent who needs to hear this.Support the showInstagram: TheHomeschoolHowToPodcast Facebook: The Homeschool How To Podcast

Text Sue what you think!“If we don't use a curriculum... how do we plan anything?”It's the number one question new unschoolers ask. If stepping away from traditional lesson plans makes you feel like you've lost your roadmap, this episode is for you! Welcome to Season 6 of the Unschooling Mom2Mom podcast! This week, host Sue Patterson explains why planning as an unschooling parent isn't about deciding what your child must learn next. It's about shaping an environment where curiosity has room to grow. When you let go of the need to control the learning, you remove the friction in your home. We're shifting the focus from "planning school" to "planning for connection." In this episode, you'll learn 3 simple planning tools unschooling parents use:The "Look at the Week" Conversation: How to build a natural family rhythm based on real life, not an imaginary school schedule.The "Idea Parking Lot": A stress-free way to offer invitations to learn (strewing) without assigning tasks.The "Just Data" Review: A simple weekly habit to help you step back, notice the learning that is already happening, and stop the "Are we doing enough?" panic spiral.Learning doesn't need nearly as much management as we were taught. Tune in for your 10-minute pep talk to help you build a life where learning naturally fits!Resources Mentioned in this Episode: Need more daily support or a community of like-minded parents to help you brainstorm? You don't have to do this alone!Join the Creating Confidence Membership:  https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/creating-confidence-membershipGet Daily Reassurance with the Creating Confidence App:  https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/creating-confidence-dailyStrewing Calendar Ideas DAILY!  https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/strewing-calendarsSupport the show_____________________________________________________As always, reach out if you need more help.  You don't have to do this alone!Creating Confidence DAILY - the Unschooling App you need!Start Free Trial Today!Creating Confidence Membership Group  Podcast listeners can join without the sign up fee - so use this link!UNSCHOOLING 101 CourseMath WITHOUT Curriculum CourseUnschooling Transcript CourseSeasonal Unschooling Guides Private 1:1 Coaching with Sue Stay Connected:Free Email List with weekly unschooling resourceswww.UnschoolingMom2Mom.com

This time round Mirabelle is enthusing about her visit to Crufts, studying tadpoles and spotting some interesting birds in the garden, as well as sharing some of the books she's studying. Asher and Luke have a fun trip to London. Eden's making progress with revision, reaching a volunteering milestone at parkrun and getting creative painting Warhammer miniatures.

Text Sue what you think!Pi Day is one of those holidays parents often try to make “fun.” But sometimes the issue isn't the activity — it's the hype.Here's a quick unschooling perspective on Pi Day and why kids often respond better to curiosity than to pressure.Instead of trying to convince kids something is fun, unschooling families often offer ideas lightly — letting interest show up naturally.Sometimes kids lean in.Sometimes they don't.And both are completely normal.Sue Patterson also shares a simple way to introduce Pi Day at home without turning it into a big event. Just remember, real learning doesn't need a sales pitch.Huge collection of Pi Day ideas here:https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/pi-dayBlogpost: The Reality of Pi Day for Unschooling Families

Text Sue what you think!What can unschooling families learn from the neurodivergent community?In this episode, Sue Patterson looks at how our understanding of “quirky” kids has changed over the years—and why many unschooling parents are learning from approaches developed within the neurodivergent community.Even families without a diagnosis can benefit from these ideas when kids struggle with expectations, pressure, or social dynamics.In this episode:Reassurance for parents of neurodivergent childrenHow the conversation around neurodivergence has evolvedWhy many families turn to unschooling when school isn't working What parents can learn from neurodivergent-informed parenting approachesResources for neurodivergent familiesSue also shares details about the Unschooling Summit, where many speakers will be discussing neurodivergence in unschooling families.

In this episode of The Homeschool HowTo Podcast, Cheryl sits down with Stephany Rios — a homeschooling mom of five — to talk about building a business from home, navigating dyslexia, and learning to let go of school timelines.Stephany shares: • The preschool bus moment that made homeschooling non-negotiable • Running a jewelry business while homeschooling • What to do when curriculum isn't working • Discovering her daughter's dyslexia • Practical tools that helped • Why being “behind” isn't failure • Creating a morning rhythm that works • How real-life learning beats rigid schedulesIf you've ever wondered whether you're doing enough… If your child struggles with reading… If you're juggling work and homeschooling…This conversation will remind you that you have time — and that love of learning matters more than checklists.Find Stephany:IG  @ivianaandco; @stephriosblogwww.stephriosblog.com    (Blog)www.ivianaandco.com  (Jewelry)Home(school) with Steph Podcast 

Text Sue what you think!Do you need to revisit deschooling as your child gets older? Many unschooling and homeschooling parents start worrying about learning gaps, grade levels, falling behind, and whether unschooling is “working.”Deschooling is often treated as a beginning phase of homeschooling. But school conditioning doesn't disappear once. It resurfaces in layers.In this episode, we talk about:• Why deschooling isn't one-and-done • How grade-level thinking creeps back in • Why independence can trigger anxiety • Common fears about gaps and timelines • How to recalibrate without returning to school-at-home structureIf you're homeschooling without curriculum, exploring unschooling, or noticing old school-based fears resurfacing, this episode will help you pause, recognize the pattern, and revisit deschooling with steadiness instead of urgency.Deschooling isn't finished. It evolves as your child grows.____________________________RESOURCES: Creating Confidence (private community or daily app) https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/creating-confidence-dailyDeschooling Toolkit https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/product/Deschooling-ToolkitRead Transcript at the Blog  https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/deschooling-isnt-something-you-finishSupport the show_____________________________________________________As always, reach out if you need more help. You don't have to do this alone!Creating Confidence DAILY - the Unschooling App you need!Start Free Trial Today! Creating Confidence Membership Group Podcast listeners can join without the sign up fee - so use this link! UNSCHOOLING 101 Course Math WITHOUT Curriculum Course Unschooling Transcript Course Seasonal Unschooling Guides Private 1:1 Coaching with Sue Stay Connected:Free Email List with weekly unschooling resources www.UnschoolingMom2Mom.com

Join other parents from around the world for three days of inspiration and community at The Unschooling Summit. This free virtual event will feature 90+ unschooling experts and advocates.

Text Sue what you think!If you're an unschooling or homeschooling parent struggling with doubt, internal criticism, or wondering if you're doing enough, this episode is for you. We talk about how unschooling confidence is built through daily reinforcement — not one-time inspiration.Start your free week of Creating Confidence Daily here:https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/creating-confidence-dailyUnschooling doubt doesn't disappear just because you left school.Old scripts — about productivity, laziness, timelines, and “doing enough” — are still there criticizing you.And when real life gets loud, those voices get louder.In this episode, we talk about:How to grow your confidenceHow old school-conditioned thinking resurfaces under stressWhy reinforcement matters more than motivationWhat it looks like to “practice perspective”And why adding a steady voice into the mix can change everythingYou don't have to silence the critical voices completely.But you don't have to let them be the only ones speaking. I want to be in there too —elbowing them out of the way.If daily reinforcement would help you stay grounded in your unschooling values, Creating Confidence Daily was built for exactly that — short, steady reminders that fit into real life.Try it free for a week here:https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/creating-confidence-dailyI'll see you there — and I'll be back here next week.Support the show_____________________________________________________As always, reach out if you need more help. You don't have to do this alone!Creating Confidence DAILY - the Unschooling App you need!Start Free Trial Today! Creating Confidence Membership Group Podcast listeners can join without the sign up fee - so use this link! UNSCHOOLING 101 Course Math WITHOUT Curriculum Course Unschooling Transcript Course Seasonal Unschooling Guides Private 1:1 Coaching with Sue Stay Connected:Free Email List with weekly unschooling resources www.UnschoolingMom2Mom.com

The conversation explores the journey of unschooling, emphasizing the importance of community and connection, as well as the challenges encountered along the way. It also delves into the upcoming Unschooling Summit and its speakers, highlighting the significance of clarifying the concept of unschooling and of providing a platform for learning and community building. The Unschooling Summit features a diverse range of speakers and topics, including leaders in the Indian unschooling movement, grief and joy, and neurodivergent themes. The summit emphasizes human themes and the importance of relationships, offering a holistic perspective on unschooling and parenting.TakeawaysUnschooling as a journey of discoveryThe importance of community and connection in unschooling Unschooling Summit features a diverse range of speakers and topicsThe summit emphasizes human themes and the importance of relationships.You can find Esther Jones on Instagram and learn more on her website.You can find Melissa Crockett-Joyoue on Instagram and learn more about her Weave ND Community on her site.To learn more about The Unschooling Summit, check out their Instagram or website.Chapters00:00 Introduction and International Connection08:55 Defining Unschooling16:31 Unschooling Summit and Community Building22:49 Speakers and Topics at the Unschooling Summit

In this episode I'm chatting with Jenny Mainwaring who lives near Oxford in the UK. Jenny took her oldest son out of school while still in primary school and suffering from burnout. Jenny describes the slow process of helping him feel safe again and how they have seen him come back to his interests and the things he naturally wants to explore. In fact, Jenny's son who is now 12 encouraged Jenny to share their story so other children can know that things do get better. A little later, Jenny also took her younger son out of school and we talk about how they try to work together to meet everyone's needs, what socialising looks like, and the importance of safe adults. You can find my blog, workshops and courses at:www.esther-jones.comOr, connect with me onInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/estherjones.unschoolingFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheUnschoolSpace

Text Sue what you think!You feel steady about unschooling… and then one comment, one comparison, one tired day — and you spiral.Why does confidence disappear so fast?Let's unpack why unschooling confidence doesn't “stick” — even when you understand the philosophy.Confidence doesn't grow on autopilot. It comes from intentionally brining it back to the front of our minds. Rhythm and repetition. Today, we'll talk about: • Why doubt resurfaces in cycles • The difference between insight and daily reinforcement • Why bingeing encouragement doesn't work • How 10–15 intentional minutes can steady your thinkingIf you've ever thought, “I know this… so why am I still worried?” — this one's for you.NEW UNSCHOOLING RESOURCE:Creating Confidence Daily opens February 22. A simple daily reset to help you stay steady instead of riding the emotional rollercoaster.Learn more: https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/creating-confidence-dailyRead the transcript: https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/the-real-reason-your-unschooling-confidence-disappears-and-how-to-strengthen-itHappy unschooling.Support the show_____________________________________________________As always, reach out if you need more help. You don't have to do this alone!Free Email List with weekly unschooling resourcesLike what you're hearing - buy Sue a cup of coffee! Buy Me a Coffee Creating Confidence Membership Group Podcast listeners can join without the sign up fee - so use this link! UNSCHOOLING 101 Course Math WITHOUT Curriculum Course Unschooling Transcript Course Seasonal Unschooling Guides Private 1:1 Coaching with Sue www.UnschoolingMom2Mom.com

send us a text via Fan Mail!Building a secure and trusting relationship with our teenagers is at the heart of this episode. I discuss practical information, credits most post-secondary institutions are looking for and supporting our teenagers in their decision making along the way. 1:45 - Laying the foundation 3:26 - It's okay if it's a confusing time 5:19 - Allowing our teens to make decisions  7:52 - Relationship is vital 12:50 - A typical course of study 18:54 - Unschooling and conventional transcripts As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.Hold On to Your Kids by Gordon Neufeld Revolution of Mercy by Bonnie Landry Unschooling to University by Judy ArnallGetting along: the foundation of successful homeschooling (podcast) maintain intimacy, maintain influence (blog post) homeschooling high school (blog post + additional resources) Contact On Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.com Search podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.ca Shop my recommended resources Thanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast!

What does homeschooling look like after the kids are grown — and what advice actually holds up over 25 years? This week, I bring back a favorite episode of mine to help remind me what's really important while taking this homeschooling journey. In this episode of The Homeschool How To Podcast, I talk with Rosemary, a New Jersey mom of four who homeschooled all the way through high school and is now on the other side: kids launched, college decisions made, careers started, and the long view finally clear.Rosemary shares the approach that shaped her homeschool—part structure, part freedom—with a few non-negotiables (like math facts and early reading), plus a powerful reminder: you're replaceable at work… but irreplaceable in your child's life.You'll also hear:Why agency is one of the biggest gifts homeschooling can giveHow she balanced academics + interests + sports as kids got olderWhen and why she started testing (and what she learned)How her kids handled the culture shock of college environmentsA practical framework every family can use: Dojo • Cafeteria • LibraryA “well-kept secret” resource: Learning Unlimited (Saturday classes taught by graduate students)If you're new to homeschooling—or you're deep in the weeds—this conversation will help you zoom out and build a homeschool that's less about checklists and more about raising capable, grounded kids who know how to learn. 

The Exploring Unschooling Podcast began at the beginning of 2016 when Pam released episode EU001: What is Unschooling? 10 Years! And 400 Episodes! To celebrate these huge milestones, we are looking back and reflecting this month. In Part 1 of our celebration, Pam, Anna, and Erika explore the question of what we've learned on our […]

Text Sue what you think!When the Olympics roll around, it's easy to feel pressure to “do something educational.”You don't need a unit study, curriculum, or lesson plan for real learning to happen.Big cultural events like the Olympics are already rich with opportunities for curiosity, connection, and noticing — if you let them be. In this episode, Sue talks about how to strew the Olympics: leaving learning invitations available without turning them into lessons or checklists.You'll hear what strewing actually looks like in everyday life, how to follow interest without forcing it, and why resisting the urge to document or capture learning often creates more space for it to happen naturally.Whether your kids are glued to the events or barely paying attention, this conversation will help you relax and trust that learning doesn't need to be organized to be meaningful.Resources mentioned: The Strewing Guide and Strewing Calendar — both included inside the Creating Confidence Membership.Strewing GuideStrewing CalendarCreating Confidence MembershipSupport the show_____________________________________________________As always, reach out if you need more help. You don't have to do this alone!Free Email List with weekly unschooling resourcesLike what you're hearing - buy Sue a cup of coffee! Buy Me a Coffee Creating Confidence Membership Group Podcast listeners can join without the sign up fee - so use this link! UNSCHOOLING 101 Course Math WITHOUT Curriculum Course Unschooling Transcript Course Seasonal Unschooling Guides Private 1:1 Coaching with Sue www.UnschoolingMom2Mom.com

To mark the podcast's 100 conversations, this episode is a little different. I am in conversation with Melissa Crockett-Joyoue who runs the Weave online community  and is also an unschooling mother. She and I co-founded The Unschooling Summit with last year and we are currently working on this year's event. It is free, online and takes place on March 20th-22nd, with recordings available. You can sign up for reminders at www.theunschoolingsummit.org.We just wanted to talk a bit about the summit, and how our experiences, and all the podcast conversations have helped to shape this offering. And we go off on a couple of tangents too. I hope you enjoy the conversation and hope to see you at the summit!You can find my blog, workshops and courses at:www.esther-jones.comOr, connect with me onInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/estherjones.unschoolingFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheUnschoolSpace

I'm re-releasing this episode because it's still one of my all-time favorites—and honestly, one of the conversations that stayed with me long after we hit stop on the recording. In this episode, I'm joined by Kiri Jorgensen, a former public school teacher in rural Montana and mom of four. Kiri shares what she saw changing inside the school system—from Common Core and high-stakes testing to increasing bureaucracy—and why her family chose to homeschool their youngest child after experiencing both public school and homeschooling.We also get practical: Kiri explains a simple framework that helps parents homeschool with confidence—separating “learning” (reading, writing, math) from “learning about” (curiosity-led unit studies). She shares her favorite strategy (the “curiosity jar”) to turn your child's questions into meaningful learning without recreating school at home.Finally, Kiri talks about her work as the founder of Chicken Scratch Books, a publisher creating clean, traditional middle grade fiction for families who want books they can trust.In this episode, we cover:Why Kiri left teaching and what she noticed shifting in schoolsCommon Core, testing pressure, and how it affects classroomsWhy homeschooling can take less time and lead to deeper learningThe “curiosity jar” method for interest-led homeschoolingBuilding lifelong learners and confident, capable kidsChicken Scratch Books and choosing better middle grade readsGuest: Kiri Jorgensen Website: chickenscratchbooks.comFollow the show, leave a review, and share this episode with a parent who needs reassurance today.Mentioned in today's episode: 

A former public school teacher never planned to homeschool — until COVID forced a hard reset. In this episode, Cheryl talks with Janae Daniels from the School to Homeschool Podcast about the moment everything changed: the “magical” 2020 shutdown, the surprising nudge to homeschool, and the first day that completely fell apart… until a piano tuner accidentally delivered the best real-life science lesson her kids had ever experienced.Janae shares what deschooling actually looks like (and why it's harder for parents than kids), how she stopped trying to replicate school at home, and what happened when her children finally had room for boredom, curiosity, and real learning: guitar skills built through YouTube lessons, reading for meaning (not grades), embroidery that turned into paid work, early jobs, business books, conferences, and a senior year centered on debate, confidence, and entrepreneurship.If you're thinking, “I'm not smart enough,” “My kids will fight me,” or “Is it too late to start homeschooling — especially for middle and high school?” this conversation will give you clarity, encouragement, and a new definition of education.Connect with Janae:InstagramFacebookYouTubeWebsiteFollow the show, leave a review, and share this episode with a parent who needs reassurance today.Mentioned in today's episode: 

Text Sue what you think!Feeling lost about teaching is common when you step away from school. Sue Patterson explores why the urge to teach more keeps showing up — and why learning doesn't depend on parents doing more teaching, but on staying focused on the learner.__________________“I want to do more to teach, but I feel lost.”If that thought has crossed your mind, you're not the only one. That feeling often shows up when you step away from school-based learning and realize you're still carrying old ideas about what teaching is supposed to look like.Let's talk about why parents feel lost when they start on the unschooling path, how we've been conditioned to believe learning only happens when someone is teaching, and what to focus on instead when your days don't look like school. This is a calm, reassuring conversation for parents who are doing something unconventional — and want steadier footing without more pressure.Additional Unschooling Support:If you'd like more examples and a little support, you'll find related resources here: Blogpost: "I Want to Do More to Teach" — Why that feels so confusingDeschooling Toolkit (for that 365 Days of Deschooling guide) Creating Confidence membershipSupport the show_____________________________________________________As always, reach out if you need more help. You don't have to do this alone!Free Email List with weekly unschooling resourcesLike what you're hearing - buy Sue a cup of coffee! Buy Me a Coffee Creating Confidence Membership Group Podcast listeners can join without the sign up fee - so use this link! UNSCHOOLING 101 Course Math WITHOUT Curriculum Course Unschooling Transcript Course Seasonal Unschooling Guides Private 1:1 Coaching with Sue www.UnschoolingMom2Mom.com

Today we're exploring unschooling—not just as an educational choice, but as a deeply personal and often healing journey for parents themselves. My guest is Esther Jones, an unschooling mother of three, the founder of The Unschool Space podcast, and the author of The Parent's Handbook to Unschooling Yourself. Esther was led into unschooling by her own children, who challenged her to unravel long-held beliefs about parenting, learning, and neurodiversity. Esther and I talk about what it really takes to step away from conventional expectations and learn to trust children's natural learning processes. We also explore the emotional work parents often need to do along the way, the importance of self-care and community support, and how mindfulness and self-compassion can become essential tools as families build lives beyond traditional schooling—ones where both kids and parents can truly thrive. About Esther Jones Esther Jones is an unschooling mother of three, founder of the The Unschool Space podcast and author of the recently published The Parent's Handbook to Unschooling Yourself.Esther was led into unschooling by her children, who have helped her unravel years of conditioned beliefs around parenting, children, learning and neurodiversity. Today, she supports other parents in transforming their mindset and building a life beyond traditional schooling in which their children and themselves can thrive, using mindfulness and self-compassion as the foundational tools for change. Things you'll learn from this episode   How unschooling requires parents to unlearn old beliefs and embrace the discomfort that signals growth Why trusting children to lead their own learning allows them to explore in organic, joyful ways How self-care and community support strengthen a parent's ability to show up for their child in an unschooling environment Why each child's needs may look different from their parent's—and how modeling our own passions supports their learning How online resources can expand support networks and deepen confidence for unschooling families Why the unschooling journey often becomes a healing process for parents as much as a learning journey for kids Resources mentioned Esther Jones' website The Parent's Handbook to Unschooling Yourself by Esther Jones The Unschool Space Podcast Esther Jones on Instagram Esther Jones on Substack A Conversation with Dr. Naomi Fisher on Self-Directed Learning (Tilt Parenting podcast) Blake Boles and His Book, Why Are You Still Sending Your Child to School? (Tilt Parenting podcast) Why Are You Still Sending Your Kids to School? The Case for Helping Them Leave, Chart Their Own Paths, and Prepare for Adulthood at Their Own Pace by Blake Boles The Art of Self-Directed Learning: 23 Tips for Giving Yourself an Unconventional Education by Blake Boles Blake Boles on the Gift of Unschooling (Tilt Parenting podcast)   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You've heard it a thousand times: “But what about socialization?” “What if my kid falls behind?” “What if they only want screens?” In this episode, I'm joined by Courtney (former teacher + school psychologist, now a private evaluator/advocate) to break down what unschooling actually is — and what it looks like in real life.We talk about the fear parents carry when they step outside the school system, and why so many families need to deschool themselves first. Courtney shares what she's seen from inside education and why forcing kids to meet grade-level standards can backfire — especially when kids develop at different rates.We also get into:What unschooling really means (and why it's not “kids watching TV all day”)Why school “socialization” can be toxic and what healthy socialization looks likeHow to handle screen time without power struggles (and why curiosity matters)The link between anxiety, nervous system regulation, and learningWhy many kids are labeled too early — and what parents can do insteadHow to spark learning naturally through real life, nature, conversation, and connectionA fascinating look at Human Design as a tool for understanding how your child learnsIf you're a parent who's trying to homeschool without recreating school at home — and you want your child to grow in confidence, curiosity, and love of learning — this episode will help you breathe again. 

What actually happens when an unschooler decides they want to try school?In this episode, I'm sharing the story of our 9-year-old daughter choosing to go to school. Before that day, she had never once stepped into a classroom. I talk about why we agreed to it. How we prepared. What the transition into a classroom was actually like. How she went socially. What happened academically. What sort of overall impact it had on her. And whether, in the end, it lasted.If you've ever found yourself wondering whether school might be “worth a try”, or you have a child asking about it and no real sense of how that would play out, this episode will give you a grounded, objective, lived perspective from the inside.For regular encouragement and support just like this, including weekly research-backed episodes to help you design and live your best possible life outside school, sign up to my full Life Without School Collection right here: https://www.starkravingdadblog.com/support-my-work-while-i-support-you/

Text Sue what you think!How do kids really learn without curriculum?What if learning is hiding in the things we almost dismiss as “just for fun”?Let's use Appreciate a Dragon Day as a real-life example of how learning shows up naturally — through curiosity, imagination, conversation, and play — without planning lessons or following a curriculum.Parents exploring unschooling or questioning traditional homeschooling can learning how to notice learning instead of trying to engineer it.You'll hear about:How everyday interests connect to real learningWhy play, storytelling, and imagination matterWhat learning without curriculum actually looks likeHow to see subjects woven into ordinary momentsFor more ideas and specific ways to weave multiple subjects into a day, check out the blogpost with 10 creative ways unschooling shows up through dragons here:https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/what-do-dragons-and-homeschooling-have-in-commonYou can read the transcript at this link too. 

Text Sue what you think!Many parents expect deschooling to work like a big reset button — pull kids out of school, give it a little time, and everything will fall into place.But when kids seem to be “vegging out,” parents often panic: Is this really how it's supposed to work?In this episode, I unpack what's actually happening in those moments — and why that panic makes sense.Leaving school doesn't automatically erase the habits we learned growing up. Even when unschooling feels right, school-shaped ideas about productivity, pace, comparison, and structure can quietly shape how we interpret learning at home.We'll talk about:Why deschooling isn't instant — and why that's normalWhat kids are actually doing when it looks like “nothing”Why deschooling is active parent work, not passive waitingHow connection, partnership, and shared life replace school-based frameworksWhy successful deschooling doesn't lead kids back to school thinking — it helps school fade into the background entirelyDeschooling isn't about rejecting learning. It's about letting go of patterns that belonged to a system built for sameness — not real families.Read Transcript at the Bloghttps://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/why-deschooling-is-really-for-parents____________________________DESCHOOLING TOOLKIT - for kids and parents!The practical support resource for parents who find themselves in that in-between space — where unschooling makes sense, but school-shaped thinking keeps creeping back in.The Deschooling Toolkit is a collection of parent supports designed to walk alongside you as you step away from system-focused ideas and sort through what actually supports your family's learning now. It includes:365 Days of Deschooling — gentle, real-life prompts for kids and familiesA Parent Deschooling Guide — to help you recognize school-conditioned habits and rethink them intentionallyDeschooling Affirmation Cards — steady reminders for moments when doubt or outside pressure shows upThere's no schedule to follow and nothing to “complete.” You can return to it whenever old patterns surface.Support the show_____________________________________________________As always, reach out if you need more help. You don't have to do this alone!Free Email List with weekly unschooling resourcesLike what you're hearing - buy Sue a cup of coffee! Buy Me a Coffee Creating Confidence Membership Group Podcast listeners can join without the sign up fee - so use this link! UNSCHOOLING 101 Course Math WITHOUT Curriculum Course Unschooling Transcript Course Seasonal Unschooling Guides Private 1:1 Coaching with Sue www.UnschoolingMom2Mom.com

What happens when you stop accepting the “official story” and start asking better questions—about education, parenting, freedom, and the systems we've all been told to trust?In this week's episode of The Homeschool How To Podcast, I'm joined by Tim (ANCAPTim)—a homeschooling dad, songwriter, and outspoken advocate of voluntary exchange, individual responsibility, and a truly free market. We talk about what anarcho-capitalism means in plain language, how his worldview shaped his decision to homeschool, and how to raise curious, grounded kids without turning them into “the weird kid on the playground.”We also get into:Why “both sides” can feel like two wings of the same birdHomeschooling as a custom fit for individual kids (not a one-size box)Unschooling explained without the stereotypesConsumer responsibility, ethics, and “voting with your wallet”AI, creativity, and what tech might change (and what it won't)Connect with Tim + his music: ANCAPTIM.com Mentioned in today's episode:My ebook: https://thehomeschoolhowto.com/ebookMy children's safety book Let's Talk, Emergencies!: https://CherylDaley.com or grab it on Amazon! If you enjoyed this conversation, please follow the show and leave a review—it helps more homeschool families find the podcast.Support the showInstagram: TheHomeschoolHowToPodcast Facebook: The Homeschool How To Podcast

Text Sue what you think!When traditional homeschooling stops working, there's nothing wrong with exploring your options. The Unschooling 101 mini-course can help. Let's talk about what's going on together.-> Unschooling 101-> Creating Confidence Membership (Unschooling 101 is included)___________________________If you've been homeschooling for a while — especially in a more traditional or school-at-home way — there often comes a point when it just doesn't feel like it's working anymore.Not because you're doing something wrong.Not because your kids are failing.But because the structure you started doesn't fit your family.In this episode, Sue Patterson talks through what it really means when traditional homeschooling stops working. She explores why so many families reach this place, why it often shows up midyear, and why unschooling frequently enters the conversation at this stage.You'll hear about the difference between homeschooling and unschooling, what “deschooling” actually looks like in real life, and why questioning your current approach is a thoughtful, responsible response — not a failure. This episode is especially helpful if you're searching for alternatives to traditional homeschooling or trying to understand whether unschooling might be a better fit for your family.Rather than offering quick fixes or rigid plans, this conversation focuses on clarity, reassurance, and next steps you can take without panic or pressure. If homeschooling isn't working the way you expected and you're wondering what comes next, this episode will help you slow down, make sense of what you're noticing, and feel less alone as you explore your options.Sue also shares how the Unschooling 101 mini-course can support parents who want a practical, grounded introduction to unschooling — especially those transitioning away from school-at-home methods and looking for a clearer understanding of what unschooling actually looks like day to day.Read the Transcript at the blogSupport the show_____________________________________________________As always, reach out if you need more help. You don't have to do this alone!Free Email List with weekly unschooling resourcesLike what you're hearing - buy Sue a cup of coffee! Buy Me a Coffee Creating Confidence Membership Group Podcast listeners can join without the sign up fee - so use this link! UNSCHOOLING 101 Course Math WITHOUT Curriculum Course Unschooling Transcript Course Seasonal Unschooling Guides Private 1:1 Coaching with Sue www.UnschoolingMom2Mom.com