Simply Jesus Gathering Podcast

Q & A: Floyd McClung & Cheryl Bridges Johns

Q & A: Nish Weiseth & Conrad Gempf

Q & A: Andy Braner, Rick Lawrence & Kathy Maskell

Q & A: Jonathan Martin, Tamrat Layne & Jawahar Gnaniah

Q & A: Floyd McClung & Dick Foth

Q & A: Leah Kostamo & Mark Braverman

Q & A: Idelette McVicker & Len Sweet

Q & A: Brian Zahnd & Jonathan Martin

Q & A: Dave Schmelzer & Lina Abujamra

Q & A: Lynne Hybels, Paul Young & Ted Dekker

A boy whose parents continually reminded him of washing hands, saying prayers, not getting germs, learning more about Jesus, eventually wondered about the importance of these two things — germs and Jesus — neither of which he could see! We can, though, see both germs and Jesus. The important thing, Jonathan suggests, is getting infected by them. In the story of the lawyer who asks Jesus what he must do to have eternal life, Jesus brought him to a different level that was not just cultural or theological. He wanted the man to be infected by Jesus, to experience his love. A love that comes from an inner makeover that changes one’s worldview, a love that comes only by grace, a love that is both contagious and dangerous.

Nish shares with us her story of becoming a mom. Through pregnancy and birth and the dark moments of postnatal depression, she reminds us of that small voice that speaks when we are at the edge, the voice that speaks when the lies are loud. It is the voice that says, “You are not alone. You are rescued. You are seen. You are valued.” And it is the voice of the one who went to find the one lost sheep when the 99 were already safe. That same Jesus who rescues us for eternity rescues us daily. He is a resurrected, alive, saving Jesus.

Mark, feeling at home in the synagogue where the Simply Jesus Gathering is taking place, reminds us of the meaning of “synagogue”: a place of assembly; and he tells the story of his becoming fully Jewish as he progressively knew more of Jesus, the best Jew. Among other incidents, this happened when he was in the Holy Land, daily walking back and forth across the dividing wall between East and West. A woman living in the heart of the conflict told him that to live with all the walls she followed Jesus, the Palestinian Jew who lived in an occupied land. When he was once asked in a Catholic church building which was his synagogue, he responded: “You’re sitting in it.” When it’s all about Jesus, what he’s doing and what he wants us to do, there is joy in the assembly place because he has brought down the walls.

Dick loves miracles. And he believes the world is hungry for them. He shares about miracles in his life and draws our attention to the miracle of Jesus first forgiving and then physically healing the paralytic who was lowered through the roof by his friends. Those friends, whose actions were affirmed and whose faith was commended by Jesus, literally held the ropes so their friend would receive a miracle. First responders, like those who saved Dick’s wife’s life, are rope-holders for modern miracles.

God is a God of all people. And we, as the church are a “group of people who get to express what is already true for everybody.” Paul tells of how his friend Jim “bought” an atheist’s soul online for $500. For every $10, Casper, the atheist, would go one time to the church of the buyer’s choice. Paul then met Casper who told him that after having visited all those churches he was still an unbeliever, and Paul asked him some revealing questions about what he does believe. Surprisingly, perhaps, Casper showed true belief in love, life and truth, and, Paul asserts, we are all included in God’s love; though we do have the option to say no. If the Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh and Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would teach us, then, though “most roads don’t go anywhere, [God] will go down any road to find you.”

Len Sweet’s children had two different experiences of studying the same bird — one dissected it, the other observed it in its live habitat. One study was objective — objectifying the specimen, the other subjective — considering the specimen as a subject. And this, Sweet challenges, is our challenge when approaching the Bible; to treat it like a subject not an object, avoiding “versitis” and getting to know the stories. Our minds process information through narratives and metaphors, not words, so as we refer only to chapter and verse we turn stories into propositions. Just as the disciples on the road to Emmaus had cognition of who Jesus was but they needed recognition, so we need to see Jesus for who he is the great metanarrative of the Bible.

Floyd McClung’s young daughter once asked him, “What does God look like?” He doesn’t look like a mean old grandpa, an exacting judge, or Santa Claus. God looks like Jesus—welcoming little children, talking to the Samaritan woman, saving the wedding feast. Floyd tells the story of throwing a birthday party for Jesus in the red light district of Amsterdam, where the party-goers brought gifts for Jesus—poems, songs, cookies. A prostitute came to the party and, without anything else to offer, offered herself as a gift to Jesus. We all have images of God in our heads, and it is a lifelong process of getting rid of the inaccurate images. Jesus wants to break into our lives, dispelling the untrue pictures of himself.

Ted Dekker shares that he has spent his life on a journey to understand his own identity and that of his father. He tells the story of a boy and his teacher walking in the Savana. Happening upon a lion and a hyena, the teacher expounds upon the infinitude of God and the smallness of evil. The boy, understanding, finally, God’s greatness, questions his own value, and the teacher tells of the first and second Adams, judgment introduced into and dispelled from the world, and the boy’s ultimate identity in the image of God.

Leah reminds us that the setting of the story is important, and that Jesus’ story was largely set in the outdoors—his birth, death, baptism, wilderness experience, his parables’ settings and objects, his time of prayer with his Father. In a story of an intern finding a rare species of fish at the environmental center where Leah lives and works, she wrestles with whether it’s weird or real that God would care for the small details of our lives and the lowliest of all creatures.

The story of two poets. One man’s beautiful epic saved another man’s life. The saved man went on to rewrite the saving story, distorting, as he did, the first poet’s character of hope, twisting her to despair. The first, deeply troubled by the loss, again rewrote the story. “When people read the rewritten version of the rewritten version of the beautiful story, they’re compelled to rewrite their own stories…And when they do this they create lives of great beauty.”

Idelette gives a stirring call to keep our lamps filled with the oil of hope, just as the five virgins did in Matthew 25. Alluding to her South African heritage, Idelette takes us on a journey to the prison cell where Nelson Mandela was held for 27 years of his “night of waiting” — a small and confined space. In which small and confined places can we stand in audacious waiting with our lamps burning, trusting that the light will break through in the darkness waiting for the Kingdom of Heaven?

Jawahar Gnaniah shares the stories of Mother Teresa and his own son with muscular dystrophy to illustrate that when we touch those who are in need, we are touching Jesus himself. Danny, Jawahar’s son, who lived with Jesus, touched many people through his life and his death. Are we ready to touch Jesus?

In the parables, Jesus revealed grace through scandal. The parable of the Good Samaritan is much more shocking than we see because of our familiarity and hesitation to modernize parables as it may lead us to the “dangerous” place of being out of control, disordered, and disrupted. This is how it is with all the parables — multi-layered challenges to our desire for order and understanding. They bring “disillusionment that creates space where we need God to reveal truth to us.” Are we willing to be scandalized?

Another story of two sons, one who said yes and didn’t follow through, the other who said no but then did the father’s will. Ruby Turpin, a fine southern woman in Flannery O’Connor’s story, was a follower of Jesus, and respectable in her own mind. But when she encountered a “white trash” woman who spoke a piercing message to her from Jesus, she had a transforming meeting with the one to whom she had said yes, realizing she had been acting in the no. Cheryl identifies with this character so strongly that she asserts that Jesus sometimes calls her by the name of Ruby Turpin, beckoning her to come on the bus of salvation, and have a seat at the back.

Rick shares candidly about a dark time in his life when he felt the heavy weight of many troubles. During that period he received weekly encouraging messages in his mailbox — anonymously. Rick confesses that the messages themselves didn’t actually touch him that deeply, but when he found out who the messengers were his heart was pierced through with encouragement. In the same way, we read the message of God in the Bible, not for the message itself, but to get to know the heart of the messenger. Jesus, Rick says, “is far more beautiful than his message,” and he is inviting us into deep and intimate relationship with himself.

Dave tells the story of Bill, an angry Jewish guy who is changed by Jesus in Dave’s church plant in Cambridge, MA. Dave suggests that “just” turning people toward Jesus was the key in Bill’s and many others’ conversions. To address the thought that perhaps “just” listening to Jesus’ voice and turning to follow him fails to deal with the reality that sooner or later a Christian has to “grow” — develop a belief system, opinions, church culture, etc. — Dave suggests the philosophical understanding of the second innocence. After the first innocence of beginning to follow Jesus, where every spiritual encounter feels like a discovery, Christians often find that the shine fades and not everything works out how they thought. In that place of “leaving Eden,” we can try to get back in—the conservative option; we can analyze what happened — the liberal instinct; or we can turn towards the fallen world and start moving, knowing, from John 10:27-28, that we have a shepherd who is going to lead us. Then, as we move through the world, we’ll see paradise ahead of us and enter in through the back door — walking with the living God.

Andy, once himself close-minded toward Muslims due to the paradigm of fear, challenges us to be open-minded as we follow Jesus and encounter Muslims. He shares three insights toward this end: explore people, invite people to explore with us, and give grace in conflict. We needn’t be afraid, Jesus is with us.

Conrad Gempf addresses the point of whether Jesus was actually one of the best teachers ever. He wasn’t usually clear and convincing, his answers weren’t really based on good use of facts, and he often completely avoided the stated question. When the Pharisee asked Jesus who is his neighbor, Jesus answered with a story that spoke to the man’s unspoken questions—who do I have to love and who can I get away without loving? The man, expecting to see a Pharisee in the story for a direct answer to his question, realized that Jesus wasn’t necessarily answering what he had asked, but he was answering him. If you think of the best teacher you’ve ever had, you wouldn’t probably say they were the best because they were the smartest or most convincing or had the best answers. It is probably that they addressed you.

God, as a great communicator, knows our love language. He acts in ways that demonstrate his profound respect for our individual ability to hear and understand him. He spoke to Abram when he asked him to sacrifice his son. But, unlike common interpretations of the story, it was not for himself that he asked the sacrifice. God was revealing to Abram, who had only a basic understanding of who God is and who had only known appeasement theology, another part of himself — that he is provider God. He will provide the sacrifice. God steps into our world and the boxes we’ve created for him to show us more of himself.

Ted reminds us that Jesus told us we would have troubles in this life. And, indeed, we do. Daily. Ted’s story of a woman chased by tigers in the jungle challenges us to maintain perspective and enjoy the sweetness of the present.

Paul assures us that God has a high view of humanity, as seen in the incarnation and stated in Karl Barth's words: “God will not be God apart from us”. Paul celebrates this humanity, as he remembers those who have been his family and passed on, telling anecdotes of the beauty and brokenness our humanity embraces. Asking the question who is “us” and who is “them”, he draws the circle of God's creative, self-giving love, and we can never be separated from it.

Paul wonders if we really believe the list of things found in Romans that cannot separate us from God. He tells a story of a man going into heaven, listing the reasons he should get in. The insightful twist of a punchline reminds us that we don’t have to play that game.

Ted, an author whose writing often includes elements of darkness, explores the idea that perhaps a focus on the darkness in the world comes from a fear of God. And while we can’t love what we fear, fear, like other emotions, is largely subconscious. Ted, with very moving stories, challenges us to let go of our fear, even in the dark hours, by letting go of the offenses we feel we have been perpetrated against us. This, he says, is radical forgiveness. And this is possible through a change of our perception of our situation, knowing who we are and who our Father is. We can always see beauty instead of darkness, just as Jesus saw no reason for concern when the storm raged against the boat.

Dick, seeing Jesus in new, disorienting, magnetizing ways, talks about the simplicity of Jesus. He is like pure water, simple, but vital to our souls. But, when we add things to water it doesn’t necessarily improve it, it dilutes it, even makes it toxic. Dick tells the stories of two women. One, the widow with two mites who became iconic as a generous, committed person even amidst loss. And the other, a woman dear to Dick who survived loss after loss and still lived trusting Jesus was enough. As Corrie Ten Boom said, “You don’t know that Jesus can be all you need until he’s all you have.”

Tamrat, through the story of the Transfiguration, dwells on the importance of the presence of Jesus. Peter, in Jesus’ radiating presence, said, “It is good to be here.” Tamrat, too, has experienced deeply the beauty of being in the presence of Jesus, even—he would say especially—in solitary confinement in prison. He challenges us to remember that this presence is irreplaceable and only through the Holy Spirit will we find such deep dwelling with the Lord.

Jay Pathak shares a story about “going hunting”. Hunting for people, asking questions like “Would you consider yourself a spiritual person?” His apologetics about the problem of pain and humanistic worldviews dismantle the paradigm of a man he talks with. However, the story has an insightful twist as Jay realized that “knowing” God as Mary had not “known” any man when she had Jesus transforms us in a way that apologetics for the mind never can. Jay says that Jesus didn’t give us truths that we can control, but he told stories that put us in tension, representing God in a way that causes us problems. We have a choice to engage. And be transformed.

From her experience in the emergency room, Lina shares the story of having to give terrible news to the family of a young child. “Is there hope?” the father asked. And that is the question that we all face sometimes in life, like the disciples on their way to Emmaus, as dreams are crushed, loves are lost and hearts are wounded. Lina recognizes that often we want glory without suffering and healing without pain. But, like the Samaritan woman at the well, we find in Jesus someone who does more than just fix our problems. Because new problems will always arise. Rather, we find someone who knows us and our brokenness and who offers us real hope even in that brokenness. “There’s always hope with Jesus.”

In 1 Peter 4:10 Paul says that we are stewards of God’s grace, and Bruxy would say that God has given some of one person’s grace to another person to allow that second person to administer it to the first. We are all priests and can go to one another for grace, the body of Christ as the Word of God continuing to be flesh. And in that identity, there is no longer any “have to”, it shifts to “want to.” We do all things out of celebration, not to gain salvation. The man who found the treasure in the field lived in that way, giving up everything for the joy of gaining the priceless treasure. We, too, can give up what is holding us back from the treasure so that we can delight in something that is far richer than anything that we’ve been holding on to. This free gift of grace will actually cost us everything, and giving it up eagerly is our way of saying yes to the treasure of the Kingdom of God.

Greg Boyle, of Homeboy Industries, reminds us that following Jesus means standing where he stands — at the margins, in the lowly places, making voices heard. And that matters to Jesus, even if others say it is a waste. Greg suggests that we imagine a circle of compassion; then imagine no one standing outside that circle, dismantling any barriers keeping anyone out. Just as God is so taken up in his compassion and love for us that he isn’t concerned with his own exaltation and he doesn’t have time to be disappointed with us. To Jesus, it’s all about us — community, transformation, and living in the truth that we are exactly who God had in mind when he made us. That is the only praise that Jesus has any interest in.

Lynne candidly shares her own story of finding Jesus to be the lover of her soul and the compassionate activist for the broken. After decades of striving to please the tyrannical god she had learned about from childhood, her physical and emotional brokenness led her to search out Jesus in a new way, forgetting all she knew of Christianity and just reading Jesus’ words. She identified with Mary, longing to sit in the unconditional love of Jesus, and once she was there her eyes were opened to the brokenness of the world where Jesus goes and calls us to go, too.

Sami Awad shares his family’s story of escaping war and the lessons his mother chose between—hatred or love? Revenge or Jesus? She taught her family to love, to be peacemakers and to seek reconciliation. So what does it mean to be a peacemaker? Going into a conflict to try to help bring reconciliation? Not only that, but Sami suggests it is also a process of personal transformation, as we see in the holistic reading of the beatitudes from Matthew 5; and it is an act of personal engagement—loving our enemies by getting to know them and what lies behind their actions. With several quotes to take to heart, Sami challenges us to be true peacemakers.

Carl Medearis recounts a time when he used the story of the Good Father from Luke 15 to respond to a trick question about Israel on live Hezbollah television. “Jesus does funny things with trick questions. He either never answers them, he asks a better question back, or he tells a story that doesn’t make any sense—we call those parables.” The effect of the parable on the TV crew is striking, probably very like that of its effect on Jesus’ Middle Eastern listeners.

Though Jesus never spoke the word “grace”, he embodies grace. And, as he came to fully reveal the Father, we, like the manager in Luke 16, can trust that he is a gracious God. The manager, like the son in the proceeding parable was “prodigal”—wasteful—and was fired because of it. He then preached the landlord’s graciousness to others, gambling everything on the idea that his boss would be gracious. This, Zahnd concludes is the heart of the parable, that “God will be to us as we preach him to the other.”

Kathy vividly retells the story of the woman who is healed by touching Jesus’ cloak. She reminds us that we can blunder, sneak, or be brought into the Kingdom, but however we go we yield our lives to His life, and we are called daughters and sons. And as children of God we can go and give food to others who have been dead, as Jairus’ daughter was.

Bart, calling to mind Jesus’ interaction with the demonized man named Legion and the story of the king who wanted a full party, tells of a dream where he was drawn to a light in a dark meadow. A beautiful person welcomed him into the cottage and said he wanted “all of you” to come in. Bart went out time and again, inviting the many aspects of himself to come see the beautiful person. The Worried Bart, the Not-Enough Bart, the Perfectionistic Bart, the Shameful Bart. As they each entered the cottage, they were transformed and healed and made whole, into one soul. “God makes our very frailty to be the place he most delights in surprising us with his nearness.”

Simply Jesus 2013 Final Wrap-Up - Bart Tarman, Jay Pathak, Carl Medearis & N.T. Wright

Jesus as a Political Figure - Mark Braverman

Putting Jesus' Words Into Practice - Dave Runyon

Encountering Jesus - David Ferguson

The Interior Life - Bart & Linda Tarman

Personal Reflections on the Inner Life - Jay Pathak, Chris and Carl Medearis