The Heart of Pastoring Podcast

The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many. If pastors mean to reflect the heart of the Good Shepherd, they will pursue a servant's heart. But we find this pursuit frustrated by our own laziness, a sense of entitlement, or even others' presuming upon our service. How can we push through these frustrations and develop a vision for open-hearted caretaking of others? In this final episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin commend the wisdom practice of Christlike service.

Pastors constantly operate in an encouragement deficit. The practice of encouragement gives life. But so many ministers are drowning in criticism or just general disappointment. How can we become better encouragers of others when we receive so little of it ourselves? In this episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin share some encouraging insights about encouragement! This wisdom practice can revolutionize our lives and enliven our ministries.

The Lord has made us not simply to work, but to play. He has given us talents and taste buds, interests and abilities, wonder and “wirings”—all to help us enjoy his common grace and glorify him in that enjoyment. But how do we devote good time to hobbies and interests without feeling guilty, or letting them overrule our life? In this episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin have a lively conversation about the surprising wisdom practice of recreation.

The Lord has made us not simply to work, but to play. He has given us talents and taste buds, interests and abilities, wonder and “wirings”—all to help us enjoy his common grace and glorify him in that enjoyment. But how do we devote good time to hobbies and interests without feeling guilty, or letting them overrule our life? In this episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin have a lively conversation about the surprising wisdom practice of recreation.

Nearly every pastor is accustomed to treating the Bible as a resource for content—for preaching and teaching, discipling and counseling. But in their “using” of the Bible, too often we forget to let the Bible use them. Nothing can be more important for the shepherd of God's people to be nourished and empowered by the very voice of God himself. In this episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin examine the wisdom practice of reading, studying, and meditating on Scripture, reflecting on how pastoral ministry can only be sustainable when the word is “richly dwelling” in us.

Paul said bodily exercise matters (though not as much as spiritual formation). But how can we incorporate a healthy practice of physical exercise into our lives in ways that actually affect our spiritual and emotional health? What is the purpose of regular exercise beyond concerns about body image or losing weight? How do we find the right balance? Or find time to exercise at all? In this episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin talk about our bodies as a stewardship from God and how commitment to regular exercise is a practice of wisdom.

Why should reading be a priority for every pastor? How do you incorporate the need to learn and grow this way during seasons of intense busyness and lack of margin? In this episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin resume their exploration of the pastoral wisdom practices by talking about their own reading histories and habits, and how every pastor ought to invest in his ongoing development and discipline by committing to read.

In this special episode of The Heart of Pastoring, Becky Wilson and Melissa Martin join their husbands to talk about some important rhythms for healthy marriages and healthy ministry partnerships between pastors and their wives. What should pastors know about their wives' unique perspectives on ministry? What will bless the heart of the pastor's wife? And how can the pastoral marriage be a source of joy and endurance in the ongoing wisdom practices of the pastor?

Why don't more pastors have friends? Why don't more enjoy the friendships they do have? In this episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin discuss the promise and the peril of pastoral friendship. What are the risks involved? Why is it worth it? How is the pursuit of and investment in friendships an oft-neglected (or avoided) wisdom practice?

"Our Lord has given the commission to the church to make disciples. Yet too many pastors spend more time settling for drawing a crowd or “keeping the customers satisfied.” In this episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin explain the obedience of disciple-making in pastoral ministry and how this practice reflects the wisdom of God, even if not always the concerns of modern religious sensibilities. "

Most pastors fall into a pattern of overwork. Why is that? And how does sabbath set us free from worldly metrics of productivity? In this episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin explore the wisdom practice of guilt-free rest and “fasting” from being needed.

How does a pastor lead himself and his congregation in thankfulness? If the Scriptures command us to “give thanks in all things,” how can we embrace that command in even the low and trying moments of ministry? In this episode, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin talk about the wisdom practice of gratitude and its all-flavoring help in every day and every season of shepherding.

Why is sitting still before the Lord important? What are the benefits to our heart, mind, and soul? What are we looking to see happen when we practice it? In this episode Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin have a penetrating conversation about the increasingly vital need for the wisdom practice of silence in the life of the pastor.

The first wisdom practice to explore is prayer. But why do pastors often find it so difficult to practice? And why is it so vital? What are some practical ways to think about prayer so that it comes from a place of delight over duty? In this episode Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin discuss the crucial rhythm of prayer in the life of the pastor.

How can pastors practically and devotionally invest in spiritual (and physical) endurance and sustainable faithfulness in ministry? In this new season of Midwestern Seminary's The Heart of Pastoring, veteran pastors Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin return to discuss 12 “wisdom practices” important for every ministry leader to adopt as gospel-centered rhythms in their personal and vocational lives. In this preface to the season, Jared and Ronnie survey the evangelical landscape, explore the need for these practices, and set a vision for where this new journey will take us.

It doesn't matter how you start; it's how you finish that makes the difference. In the season finale of The Heart of Pastoring Podcast, Jared and Ronnie discuss the "why" behind the qualification that pastors not be recent converts, what happens when they are recent converts, and the residual effect on ministers and their churches when there is too much rush of untested men into positions of leadership. Our hosts also take a little stock of their own lives and ministries from their mid-life vantage points and explore what it means to pursue a long track record of faithfulness, a reliable pattern of predictability in ministry, and a good ol' "veteran-ship" in the faith.

Does anyone go into ministry for the money? Maybe. Jared and Ronnie didn't think they'd have a lot to say about the pursuit of money -- and what the apostle Peter calls "shameful gain" -- but they did. And it turns out ministerial greed and shameful gain isn't just about money. There are other things pastors often succumb to becoming greedy about. In this conversation, our hosts explore the variety of ways pastors pursue discontentment, gluttony for things and experiences, and even how congregations can help pastors avoid financial (and other kinds of) anxiety and unrest.

Is gentleness the lost art of pastoring? The apostle Paul forbids pastors from being bullies and from being quarrelsome, but many pastors (and churchgoers) today seem to think these qualifications are optional and even valorize ministerial violence, manipulation, and conflict. In this honest conversation, Jared and Ronnie share some of their own experiences serving under bully pastors, what sows the seeds of abuse in ministers, and how to pursue not an image of peace but a heart and reality of peace.

Does every pastor need to be gifted in the pulpit? Does every pastor need to be an academic or a scholar? What does the biblical qualification of pastors that they be "able to teach" actually mean? Jared and Ronnie, two long-time preachers and teachers, have a straightforward conversation in this episode about the place of creativity and eloquence in preaching and teaching, the non-negotiable basics of the teaching qualification, pursuing clarity in our communication, and what it takes to "find your voice" as a teacher.

Do you have to be an extrovert to meet this qualification for pastoral ministry? Does hospitality only refer to fellowship with other believers? In this episode, Jared and Ronnie talk about the postures and opportunities of true hospitality, a position of welcome and openness to outsiders, and showing love for neighbors in evangelistic conversations and more.

When we say "pastor on Twitter," what image first comes to your mind? It's likely not an even-keeled, thoughtful, diserning personality. But social media isn't the only platform for unstable pastors. In this new episode, Jared and Ronnie talk about the tendency for pastors to be swayed by cultural winds, congregational pressures, crazy headlines, and just their own rabbit trails and hobby-horses. When a pastor's mind is constantly "held captive" by every thought -- instead of the other way around -- he loses his sense.

The biblical qualifications for ministry require that pastors be self-controlled, sober-minded, not a drunkard, etc. Jared and Ronnie have an insightful conversation in this episode about the various roots of some pastors’ lack of self-control, the importance of regulating one’s emotions, and how the pursuit of peace, stability, and gentleness is actually a pursuit of […]

The cliche ministry danger of “sacrificing one’s family on the altar of the church” is cliche for a reason. In this episode of the podcast, Jared and Ronnie explain the biblical qualification of being a “one-woman man” (as well as managing the household well and having “faithful” children) and how it speaks to an even […]

The evangelical landscape is littered with the corpses of fallen ministries, and Jared and Ronnie have had more than a few friends among them. Listen in as they discuss what it means to be “above reproach” (as well as “respectable” and having a “good reputation with outsiders”), what it takes to pursue personal holiness, and […]

What happens when you put two veteran pastors and friends in a room and ask them to have a candid conversation about ministry? In this all-new podcast series, The Heart of Pastoring, Jared C. Wilson and Ronnie Martin reflect on the biblical qualifications for pastors in gracious, thoughtful, and — very often — humorous ways. […]