Podcasts about rabi'a keeble

Leah Vernon is a style blogger, plus-size Muslim model, public speaker, and activist. In her book, Unashamed: Musings of a Fat, Black Muslim, she takes to task the myth of the perfect Muslim woman. In this episode, poet and social justice activist Rabi'a Keeble talks with Leah Vernon about her love-hate relationship with her hijab and her faith, race, weight, mental illness, domestic violence, sexuality, the millennial world of dating, and the process of finding her voice. This episode contains explicit language.

Rabi'a Keeble is one unique woman. She runs a women's mosque on the West Coast, despite all the abuse hurled in her direction. In this interview with Shireen Qudosi, she talks about race and faith in the United States (Photo PX Here)

Linda Sarsour is one of the most divisive figures in the United States. A darling of the left but largely mistrusted by the right. Now an imam tells Clarion Project Linda Sarsour is a puzzle. Oakland-based Rabi'a Keeble founded Qalbu Maryam Women's Mosque. A convert to Islam, she is the author of Activism in a time of change and uncertainty: A Muslim Woman's Perspective from the front lines. In this podcast, she speaks with Clarion's National Correspondent Shireen Qudosi, Keeble about her concerns regarding Sarsour.

Islamic texts speak of the need to "cover your bosom" not cover your hair, according to a Californian imam. Oakland-based Rabi'a Keeble founded Qalbu Maryam Women's Mosque. A convert to Islam, she is the author of Activism in a time of change and uncertainty: A Muslim Woman's Perspective from the front lines. In the first part of an interview with Clarion's National Correspondent Shireen Qudosi, Keeble discusses the hijab, traditionally and its politicization in 21st Century America. (Illustrative photo: hourig94 / flickr -https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/)

Host Ali Nazar interviews Rabi'a Keeble, founder of Berkeley's Qal'bu Maryam, the first women led, all inclusive mosque in America.TRANSCRIPTSpeaker 1:[inaudible]. Speaker 2:You are listening to k a l x Berkeley 90.7 FM, university of California and listener supported radio. And this is a method to the madness coming at you from the Public Affairs Department here at Calyx celebrating the innovative spirit of the bay area. [00:00:30] I'm your host, Colleen Huizar. And today in studio we have with us a special guest Rabi'a Keeble from the women's mosque here in Berkeley. Hi Robia. How are you? I'm fine, thank you. Um, and Rabiah, uh, has joined us today after launching, uh, the mosque in the last few weeks. So we're going to get into that in a little bit. But first, Ruby, I have a question for you. The same question I asked all founders of organizations. Sure. You have seen a problem [00:01:00] there. Usually people start something cause there's a vacuum or a void, right? So, um, can you explain, please tell us what's the problem that your new organization is trying to solve? Speaker 3:Wow. You know, it's a whole, uh, list of things actually, and it's not likely that Cowbell Mariam is gonna solve all of these problems, but at least we're opening up the conversation and hopefully there will [00:01:30] be a robust sort of conversation that continues on this topic. But some of the things that I, I believe have been issues for me personally, uh, and my journey as a Muslim since I converted, uh, 15 years ago is, is mainly accessibility. Um, I never could figure out, now I, I know the [inaudible] very well [inaudible] to death and all this, [00:02:00] but I never could figure out why women had to sit behind men if they were allowed in the same space at all. Second of all, why women were using separate entrances sometimes, uh, separate buildings, sometimes, uh, not allowed at all to attend a mosque. But the places that I've [00:02:30] been to right here in Berkeley, right here in the bay area, we still have mosques that do this. Speaker 3:And I was like, I was not entirely a mosque copper. I did settle in at one mosque where I, I stayed there for some time, but there were times when I was invited other places and I was surprised. I was really surprised. You know, it's a lack of accessibility to the mom, uh, to facilities. Uh, quite often [00:03:00] you'd go to these women's areas and they were not clean, uh, distress looking. Um, many of them were just very cutoff. Uh, one place was just a room, a separate room, no plasma TV screen, no projection. It was just a separate room. And I, I recall asking someone like, well how do you know what the mom is saying? How do you know when this is happening or that is happening? [00:03:30] And I was actually told by one of the sisters that, well, you know, we don't really need to know. Speaker 3:You know, and I think over time, perhaps not intentionally, you collect all of these things, you know, and it gets to the point where you even have a lot of questions and where do you go to have your questions answered? The most that I attended the women's sat behind the men, but there was [00:04:00] still an acknowledgement that we were separate. Um, but often the men would talk to the mom, they would ask questions, there would be conversations going back and forth, and the women are all the way in the back. And it's like, what if I have a question? What if there's something that's nagging and I want to ask him about it? I can't just chat him up like these guys are chatting them up. I have to sit back here and then I have to wait [00:04:30] until June was over and I have to plow through all the men who are trying to get at him. Speaker 3:And that means I don't get an opportunity. So I saw it also as just an issue of accessibility. Um, there's also, I think a problem when you separate men and women that men lose an opportunity to know women better, to actually learn from women. Um, [00:05:00] you know, there's like sort of ships in the night, you know, if you even say some lady come to her brother's like, what did you just say? Oh, you know, we're just exchanging a greeting brothers. Nothing more than that, you know, but even that is sometimes chancy. So how do we establish, how do we establish like a normalized kind of, uh, of interactions and normalized kind of relationship with our brothers is, [00:05:30] you know, a lot of people say, well, why do you want to kick me to the curb? Or You mad at men? This is not being mad at men. Speaker 3:This the same join us, but let's get together in a different way. Let's be allies, let's be friends. Let's, let's, let's ignore all these odd little things that are traditional things for sure. Uh, that you can't talk to a woman in lunch. This your, you know, like what's going to happen [00:06:00] if you do that or, uh, I think maybe it was the chronicle article where they talked to any mom in Santa Clara, like about men praying, potentially praying behind a woman. And I think is the answer was, well, you can do it, but I don't want to see the repercussions. I was like, holy macro, what, what repercussions are we talking about here? Speaker 2:Well, there's so many different interpretations of all scripture, and I think, [00:06:30] you know, uh, enlightened Muslim men argue that something like the hijab is the first responsibility is on the man to avert his temptation and desire. There's lots of different ways to look at things. I think that the, uh, that a mom, you know, who knows where he's coming from, but, uh, no. Uh, but, you know, I think I want to follow up on that question is, is a beautiful statement of the problem statement you're trying to solve is, I think what I think I'm hearing you say is that the moss [00:07:00] that you're starting in Berkeley is to rethink that relationship between men and women and have them on an equal playing field in the eyes of cod and in front of an a mom so that everybody can pursue mama and Mama. Is that, what, is it the feminine of your mom? Okay. So I'm to everybody can be an equal footing to pursue their spiritual enlightenment. Um, but before we get further into the vision and how this is going, tell us a little bit about you. How did you, uh, arrive to Islam and, and [00:07:30] you know, what was your journey to, to this religion? That's pretty complicated. Speaker 3:Try and kind of like reduce it into a digestible portion. Um, I was some nominally race as a Christian. Uh, my family was not very religious, although we, you know, grew up with a lot of religion around us. We didn't belong to a church, uh, but I absorbed a lot [00:08:00] of the, uh, Christian, you know, lifestyle knowledge ethics because we were surrounded with it. Um, I would say that, uh, I was always interested in scripture even at a very young age. Uh, I was always very interested in knowing more. I wanted to know God, I really, I wrote really recall being very young and wanting to know who god was. And [00:08:30] I really thought that I could find it in the Bible and I would read the Bible and read the Bible and read the Bible. And I actually at a very young age, knew the Bible incredibly well. Speaker 3:I could quote it. Um, but that was my, you know, that was my initial journey. And I think like a lot of young people, you know, you wonder off the path, you start exploring life in different ways and is not a big deal for, for most, you know, college kids and whatever. They're not [00:09:00] thinking about that. They're thinking of other stuff. And so I think I was like any other adolescent or teenager, I sort of didn't care. And, um, there came a point in my life when I was looking for something healing another path, I don't know. And I actually came across a flyer at Berkeley Library, the main library that said Sufi healing. And I was like, hmm, I don't even know what Sufi [00:09:30] is. I don't, I wonder what this is. I had time, so I said, I'm going to check it out. And I came up on campus and, um, I went to this gathering and even though I was not really sure what was happening, I really loved the people I was around. Speaker 3:I had never been around people who were so welcoming, so kind. And it appeared so forgiving and loving. They weren't [00:10:00] afraid to show love and to pull me in and to, and to, you know, acknowledge my humanity. Does that make sense? And to treat me honestly and fairly, even though I was asking stupid questions, which I was asking a lot of at the time. And eventually, um, you know, exposure to Sufism absolutely exposes you to Islam because [00:10:30] who FISM is Islam, excuse me, can no for coal. And, um, with the exposure to Islam through Sufism, I sort of, it felt like something had opened up to me, you know, really beautiful. It was like, it was very unusual. It was like, what is this wonderful thing? Speaker 3:[00:11:00] And so, you know, many people see Islam and Sufism as separate and it's just not so, and, um, I think if you're really a lover, as Sophie's would say, of the beloved, it makes you want to dig deeper and to Islam, you know, to find the roots of this, how these people, whoever they were, were able to tap into this [00:11:30] very unique and wonderful way of expressing their worship in their love of God. Um, I didn't know until later that in some places Sufism was looked down upon. Um, and I didn't understand it. I never could understand it. Uh, I would hear things like dance that's wrong. They use music that's around the men and women dance [00:12:00] together. That's even more how wrong. It's like Akash you know, what kind of existence is that? Where are you doing is looking for things to yell? Ha. Rahmat yeah. Which is unfortunately Speaker 2:very much so much part of the Muslim world these days is that's how they operate is as a judgment. And, you know, uh, you know, I'm a Muslim myself. Um, it's a tragedy to see the characterization [00:12:30] of the religion that's happening in popular culture today because it's the antithesis of what you're talking about. It's not the love base of my tradition that I grew up in was very much similar to, you know, looking at, uh, the, the world who wondrous eyes, who the love the beloved spirit. Um, as opposed to this, uh, the absolute opposite, the negativity of like, you're doing this wrong. You're doing this wrong, which turns people off their religion Speaker 3:turns to people. It just, it's, it's, it's kind of a weird paradox. [00:13:00] You would think it would turn people off and you think it would push women back and make them like what really, you know, think a little bit [inaudible] you see just the opposite. You see these women that are so willing to be controlled, so willingly following even very mistaken and misguided people in a lot of cases, not all [00:13:30] shakes, any moms are misguided, but in a lot of cases they are. And I'm just so shocked sometimes when women act so afraid or they will come to me and they'll will say, well sister, what makes you think that it's okay to pray with men or for women to lead prayer? I said the Quran, have you read it? You know, and they're always, you know, like very suspicious. Like really? But the Koran says that, you know, [00:14:00] a great, the great majority of people that I talk to have never read the crown for themselves. Speaker 3:They've always had someone tell them what's in it. Interesting. And their spin on it as a matter of fact. And so this is one of the biggest problems I think that we run into as Muslims, is that it's always like, I feel like there is this desire to spin things to [00:14:30] maintain control rather than to educate rather than to elevate. I had this conversation with someone, I forget who, and he was insisting that a man could not marry a divorcee. Right. And I was thinking to myself, I said, but where's that in the car? I don't know if a woman's divorce, she can't marry her. Well, I'm sorry, but what some Kadesia [00:15:00] I divorce a problem. Speaker 2:[inaudible] married a divorce woman. Speaker 3:I divorced one man, you know rom you. Yeah. Ridiculous. There's so many people [inaudible] women who don't know that. Yeah. They don't know that he hadn't like up to nine wives in his lifetime. Maybe more. And a few of them were widows or divorcees. So, you know, I think [00:15:30] it's becoming very clear that education is such a huge, huge part of this and women necessarily have to start educating women and men because we're not as tied to status quo as men are. I think men feel like they have to carry this. They have to continue with it. They they, they have to do this thing with this, but it's like, okay, [00:16:00] you know, after, while don't you understand that this is something you can share, that it's okay to talk to a knowledgeable, educated sister or maybe one who isn't but has good questions in that you can sit and talk and not worry about who's married and who's wearing hijab and who's this and that and the other thing and just work on that. Because we're in a, we're in a situation here in America [00:16:30] all over the world where the world thinks of us, Hispanic people, they think of us as terrorists. They think of us as people who want to destroy their comforts and to change how I had someone, some woman asked me, she goes, well, I just don't want to have any Shiria law. I said, are you Muslim? No, I am not. I said, you don't have to worry about because it's not for you. It's for [00:17:00] Muslims. Speaker 2:Yeah. Wow. That's a talking point of the right. I mean it's, this is scare tactic, but we're talking to Rabiah Keel. She's a Kibo, she's the founder of, uh, Kaaboo. Mariam is how you pronounce it. Um, it's a, a brand new moths here in Berkeley, California. Um, and it is the, um, first mosque in the nation that is led by women that it's all inclusive. So it's, uh, open to men and women, but led [00:17:30] by women right here in our fair town of Berkeley, California. Thanks for joining us. Rubia um, Ga, Berkeley. I want to ask you about, um, you know, you're an innovator and it's not always, this is, this show is about innovation. Okay. And it's not always, um, easy innovate in the business world. I talk to a lot of people, it's kind of put up on a pedestal because you know, people love this term, especially in the bay area to disrupt and has startups, but you're innovating [00:18:00] in a place that people don't always love religion. Speaker 2:Right? You know, people have their dog Ma and you're talking about men who have trouble seeing, um, why there's problems. Cause it's kind of always been this way. And in my experience with religion, people rely on their tradition. That's one of the comforts of religion. Sure. It's always been this way. Doesn't change. Absolutely. So I want to ask you about that leap that you've taken of how you saw the problem and said, you know, why are the sisters behind the brothers? Why can't they talk [00:18:30] to the mom? So you decided to do something about it. And I'm fascinated by this and people who take this jump from seeing a problem to actually doing something about it. Can you explain to us what, what spurred that notion in you that you need to do something about this? Speaker 3:Well, I didn't think I needed to do something about it. I felt like somebody needed to do something about it. And I waited. I actually waited and I would, [00:19:00] you know, I also tried to be the obedient Muslima. I really did. I was, you know, I'd sit and watch stuff go down and not say anything because I was afraid of backbiting and I did all of that stuff. And you know, uh, yeah. I mean, but I waited, you know, I was patient with it. And honestly I believe that it's kind of a divine [00:19:30] intervention. I don't, I don't think by myself that I would have done this because I would've been afraid. But I think that God has basically been with me throughout this. I've, I felt it, I felt led. Um, the way things were sort of falling into place was just unbelievable. And the support, um, I'm sure there's elements [00:20:00] in the Muslim community that wanted me to fail. Speaker 3:I have no doubt about it. There are people in the Muslim community that see me as an upstart and troublemaker and all that. I get that, um, because I also address very powerfully racism and all those other things that we don't ever want to talk about. Polite Muslims, don't want to talk about it. But that's sad. I don't think it was me. [00:20:30] I think it was God, I think this will, it will be successful or fail based on God's timing, not mine. Um, I decided from the beginning to step out of it to not have my and cage tenant and I, there's been times, there was a reporter from mouches Sarah last week and she was insisting, she says, well, I cannot film, [00:21:00] there's no men here. There's only women here. Speaker 4:Okay, Speaker 3:how is this inclusive if there's no men here? I said, because I don't hire people. It's like any other mosque. Whoever wants to come, comes, whoever does, I want to go and they don't come. So I said, I'm sorry, I can't help you. She says, okay, I'll come next week and can, can you get some brothers, call some brothers and tell us. I was like, so [00:21:30] la. Anyway. Speaker 2:[inaudible] well, um, let me ask you about, um, a more general question for our listeners. Probably most of them are not Muslims that don't understand the importance of the mosque to Muslim life. And, um, and, and we're speaking with, uh, Rabi'a Keeble. She's the founder of called Marianna Hae, a woman's Moss. All inclusive. Mazda started here in Berkeley, uh, in April, I think is when, is that when you launched the official list? Yeah. So just last month, right here in Berkeley. [00:22:00] Um, so can you tell us a little bit about what is the importance of the mosque and why is it so important to have one that, uh, matches the kind of ethos you're talking about? Speaker 4:Well, Speaker 3:I don't know exactly what you want me to say here, but, um, the way I see a mosque and having been exposed to Christian Christianity and the way Christians to things, especially Black Christians and [00:22:30] Black Christian women, for me a place of worship is part of my life as a woman. I didn't see myself excluded because in Christianity, the type that I grew up with, southern Baptist women were not excluded. Women were leaders. So oftentimes pastors are doing very important things. So coming into Islam, I didn't leave that behind. [00:23:00] That's part of me where if I'm in a worship situation, I'm looking for female leadership as well as male. Right. Um, I believe that mosque are community oriented mainly, uh, in the west. It can't really be that way because we don't have neighborhoods around, you know, people will drive an hour to get to the mosque or [00:23:30] whatever. You don't just walk over and it's not the center of the village or the city or whatever. But I believe the intention is it was that, and it was the place where you would go to hear the news, to hear announcements, um, to hear the word, to heal, hear inspiration, um, to ask questions, whatever, you know, it was in that gathering space. Speaker 3:Was it original? The question is, [00:24:00] was it originally conceived of as a place where men and women attended jointly? Uh, no, probably not because that was not the culture of the time. Speaker 2:No. Bar Arabia in the 600 Speaker 3:does very, very, very gender, you know, uh, specific about things. You know, only women did these things. Only men did these things and blah, blah, blah. You know, the whole thing. So I [00:24:30] think that this was seen as a male space, but that was because that was what it was like an Arabian, the seventh century. Yeah. Very divided, very, very, uh, you know, assignments, uh, for gender that which informed I think other things. But, um, now in the 21st century here in America, how does that model work for us? And I would say it doesn't work so well. Yeah. It's not the reality [00:25:00] of our everyday life as it was then. We go to work, we mix, we go to the store, we stand behind or in front of somebody who's of the opposite gender. Um, we drive down the street, we go to the gas state, whatever. Everything that we do. It's mixed. It's mixed. Yup. Speaker 2:So I think what I'm hearing you say is the importance of the mosque is to reflect the society [00:25:30] that we live in, to build a community of, of worshipers, of Islamic worshipers, but reflective of more of our times. Yeah. And, and which is, I think the problem you're trying to solve, which is so appropriate. It is an innovation that's needed and the bravery that you're showing to stand up and, and do it is really amazing and inspiring. So thank you so much trivia. I really appreciate you coming here. I wanted to ask you one last question. Um, you've created, you're creating [00:26:00] a space, right? And what struck me, I went to one of your launch events was the diversity of people that were there. Yeah. Um, so can you tell me maybe one or two stories of your favorite things that have happened so far? Surprises to you cause you're creating a space of worship for people to come and express. Yeah. Things that maybe they haven't been able to express anywhere else. Cause you've created this safe, wonderful, diverse space. Yeah. Well what's, what's happened to you so far that you've been like, wow, that was, that was amazing. Speaker 3:[00:26:30] I tell you the whole time I've been like, wow, yeah, I fully expect it that nobody would show up. I fully, I did. I fully expected that, you know, the word would get out over there. Don't do that because me as doing whatever it is, but it didn't turn out that way because God is guiding this. And, um, I think one of the most powerful things, it wasn't a big thing. There was a, uh, a brother who [00:27:00] came to one of the Joomla's and, uh, I had done the call to prayer, I had called [inaudible] and I had never done it before my life, but you know, that tells you something, right? That I was exposed to it enough that I knew it. Yeah. Speaker 2:And Juma, for those who don't know is the Friday prayer is the Sabbath of, of uh, Muslim. Speaker 3:Alright. [inaudible] and this brother said to me, one thing that we're doing, uh, is that after Solat, [00:27:30] instead of everybody bolting, leaving, I ask questions. I say, do you have questions? I want you to talk about what's on your heart. I want you to ask questions. And, um, this brother raised his hand and he said, you know, I really like this because I want my wife to be with me in worship. I want her in the kid sitting next to me. [00:28:00] I had never thought of that. I really had never thought that that might be something that's very supportive and comforting for man is to have his wife next to him. And it really touched me. Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a beautiful story. I'll share with you what really inspired me. Plus as someone who's a Muslim but also loves music. Um, when I went to one of your launch events, um, you had a convert who got up there and talked about how she had missed gospel music [00:28:30] from when she was growing up as a Christian. And so she decided to incorporate gospel music into Islam and then did an Islamic prayer in a gospel way. She just blew my mind and my wife and I look at each other like, this is the place for us. This is amazing. Although we don't do that in Juma. We don't do that. Yeah. I mean that was, uh, that was the initial launch, but it was, I think, part of the spirit, which is that you're creating a safe place for people to express themselves and in Islam [00:29:00] that hasn't been easy to do in my lifetime. Um, so it's, it's amazing, amazing innovation. This, this store, this, this show is about innovation. And, uh, I especially like having spiritual, uh, people on the show to talk about. They're helping to forge new paths in the bay area. So we've been speaking with, uh, Robbia Keeble. She is the founder of Kobu. Maryam is a women's all inclusive mosque here in Berkeley. Just started Rubia [00:29:30] if people want to get involved, they want to attend a service. If they want to join the congregation, how can they do that? Speaker 3:They can do that by Friday, Fridays at 1230 [inaudible] at two, four, four one cod avenue at the Graduate Theological Union star King School of the ministry, which is only a block or two from UC Berkeley. Um, you can join us and, um, the doors are open. Please join us. So 1230 on Friday Friday's [00:30:00] graduate theological union, Starr King School, the ministry to four four oh one, La Conte. Great. Thank you so much for coming in today. Thank you for having me. They come slow on. Best of luck. Okay. Listening to method to the madness on KALX Berkeley 90.7 FM. I'm here. I was telling the czar, have a great Friday. Everybody. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.