Podcasts about West Coast

Mike started off today's show talking about the Phillies. After a successful West Coast trip, the Phillies start a home stand tonight and Mike wants to know just WHO ARE the 2022 Phillies? So Mike wanted to ask you where you are with the Phillies as well as the Sixers? (00:00-26:01) Mike went to the phones for your reactions (26:01-1:18:03) What's Brewing With Jen brought us stories of 1. Production is in the works for a Roast of Tom Brady coming up on Netflix, 2. There is a hotel in Milwaukee that MLB visiting teams tend to stay at and it may be haunted, and 3. If you're going to the PGA Championships – you're gonna pay MORE for beverages (1:18:03-1:27:16) Ben Davis joins the show offering his insight on the Phillies season so far (1:48:18-1:59:01) The rest of the show was your calls and some great movie discussion up till Sound Off (2:45:16)

As part of our series of chats with diversity specialists, today we're speaking with Mercedes Gamor. Mercedes is the first-ever Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Specialist at Prime Electric, one of the most prolific electrical construction contractors on the West Coast of the US. Today, she joins us to talk about how Prime Electric is going above and beyond just ‘checking the diversity box'. Tuning in, you'll hear about how she got involved in the construction industry, how she discovered her passion for DEI, and some of the DEI initiatives she is involved with at Prime Electric, including their Subcontractor Assist Supplier Diversity Program. Her passion overlaps with her role in the National Association of Women in Construction (NAWIC) where she forms part of the National DEI Committee. You'll also hear about her passion for affordable housing, the lack of this in Seattle, and her work to address this through the Habitat for Humanity Seattle King County Young Professionals Group. To learn more about DEI in the construction industry and some examples of programs that are making a difference, as well as Mercedes' advice to anyone in a position of power, tune in today! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Dingers crew recap the west coast trip and back-to-back series WINS! Great pitching performances, 9th inning clutch hits, and a bullpen that shoves. That and more on this episode of the Dingers Podcast. Talk #Cubs baseball on the No. 1 forum on the internet: https://www.chicitysports.com/forum/forums/chicago-cubs-forum.33/ Follow us on Twitter: @dingercubs Find us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/dingercubs

The boys dissected the clinical win by 74 points against West Coast in Perth. They praised an even contribution across all lines, took aim at the Match Review Panel and analysed the tactics across the top teams in the AFL.

On this episode I have LA based trekker, outdoor adventurer, environmental activist, native plant enthusiast, Author of “Day Hiking Los Angeles” and “Discovering Griffith Park”, and founder of Modern Hiker, Casey Schreiner, join me on the show. We chat about how the view of the San Gabriel mountains sparked his outdoor journey, the concept of place attachment in relation to landscapes, the origin story and evolution of Modern Hiker throughout the years, advocating for more LA park lands, his top SoCal hikes, hot weather and summer hiking tips, Sandstone Peak and the Mishe Mokwa Trail, becoming a native plant enthusiast, his perspective on the hiking explosion in LA, favorite Los Angeles history gems, creating access for all in the outdoors, protecting Griffith park from the Gondola project, and the one outdoor experience he would relive all over again. Since 2006, Casey and the Modern Hiker site have been quite the impactful and influential resources that we are blessed to have here in the LA hiking + outdoor community. It was a major honor to have him on the show as his trail guides were the foundation to my hiking journey. Follow Modern Hiker on https://www.instagram.com/modernhiker/ Visit Modern Hiker blog on https://modernhiker.com/ Purchase Discovering Griffith Park (signed copy) on http://discoveringgriffithpark.com/ Purchase Day Hiking in Los Angeles (signed copy) on http://dayhikinglosangeles.com/ Download Modern Hiker app on https://modernhiker.com/download-the-modern-hiker-app/ Support Just Trek on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/justtrek Shop Just Trek merch on https://www.justtrek.net/shop View photos from the discussed hikes on https://www.justtrek.net/explore Listen to more podcast episodes on https://www.justtrek.net Want to send me a message? Email me at justtrekofficial@gmail.com or DM on Instagram @just.trek Like the show? Leave a 5 star rating and review follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/justtrek/message

If you're looking for a sign to go get that tattoo you've been dreaming of — well, this is it. Tattoo and multimedia artist Tamara Santibañez believes that tattooing can work for anyone who wants it. The art form has existed for thousands of years, and it's more than a tool for creative expression. In their book, “Could this be Magic? Tattooing as Liberation Work,” Tamara makes the case that tattooing holds deep meaning and even deeper potential: tattoos are a way to reclaim personal and collective histories, help heal trauma, and present one's truest self to the world. Tamara developed their tattooing ethos across their 13-year-long career. Originally from Georgia, Tamara moved to New York City as an art student and soon after pivoted into the world of body art and tattooing. Tamara developed a specialty in black and white, fine-line tattooing — their style draws from their Mexican-American heritage, and from popular Chicano tattooing styles that originated within the prison system on the West Coast. In this episode of Latino USA, Tamara discusses their own journey in tattooing, the histories behind the art form, and the possibilities that await when taking ink and needle to skin.

In the 5th episode of Season 5, Ian Nelson of DOMA Coffee in Post Falls, ID joins the show to talk about his coffee journey and path to becoming a Q-Grader. Follow @domacoffee on Instagram or head to https://www.domacoffee.com/ to learn more about the company and shop for coffee. Some music courtesy of Ian Nelson and https://kadabraband.bandcamp.com/ Support this show by SUBSCRIBING to the newsletter and choosing the paid subscription at: https://roastwestcoast.substack.com/subscribe Head to www.roastwestcoast.com for show recaps, coffee education, guest list and coffee news. Follow us on Instagram: @RoastWestCoast or Facebook: @RoastWestCoast ROAST! West Coast is a new podcast bringing together a community of coffee lovers in Southern California. Host Ryan Woldt interviews local roastery founders, roasters, coffee shop experts, farmers, green coffee brokers and more about their coffee origin stories, how they've dealt with the impacts of Covid-19, why they love coffee and much more. If you love coffee, entrepreneurship, shopping local and learn how things get made and why things are done a certain way you will love ROAST! West Coast presented by One Wild Life Co. We dive deep into the hyper-local coffee region of Southern California with the help of Industry Legacy Partners including: Ignite Coffee Company, Steady State Roasting, Zumbar Coffee & Tea, Marea Coffee, Mostra Coffee, Cafe LaTerre, First Light Whiskey, Camp Coffee, and Cape Horn Coffee. Plus, Coffee Smarter Experts Chris O'Brien of Coffee Cycle, Siri Simran Khalsa, Executive Director of Lofty Coffee, Jared Hales, Founder and Green Coffee Buyer at Hacea Coffee Source rejoin the show as recurring guests to answer all our coffee questions. Check out NPR's list of humanitarian aid groups supporting the Ukraine here: https://www.npr.org/2022/02/25/1082992947/ukraine-support-help Support Women's reproductive rights with a donation to the National Network of Abortion Funds here: https://abortionfunds.org/ --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/roastwestcoast/support

Dan Bernstein was joined by Cubs outfielder Ian Happ to discuss the team's strong play in its recent 4-2 road trip on the West Coast, how he has made defensive improvements and more.  

In the latest Powder Blue Podcast, Geoff Mosher and Frank Klose break down the West Coast Phillies road trip and discuss: The Phillies go 5-2, but it could have been 6-1 had they gotten one more out. Is that worth worrying about? Are the Phillies starting staff and lineup settling in? Bryce Harper, his UCL tear, and what it means for the future

In the third hour, Mike Mulligan and David Haugh discussed the Cubs going 4-2 on their West Coast road trip last week. They then previewed the Cubs-Pirates series, which begins Monday evening at Wrigley Field. After that, Jon Heyman of the New York Post and Audacy Sports joined the show to discuss the latest MLB storylines. Later, Score baseball insider Bruce Levine joined the program to discuss the latest Cubs and White Sox storylines.

David Fialkow is the Co-Founder and Managing Director @ General Catalyst, one of the leading venture firms of the last decade with a portfolio including Stripe, Snap, Airbnb, Anduril, Canva and many more amazing names. Prior to founding General Catalyst with Joel Cutler, David was a serial entrepreneur building and selling 4 successful companies. In Today's Episode with David Fialkow: 1.) Everything Great Starts Small: How did David and Joel decide on a Hawaiin beach that they wanted to start General Catalyst? Why did they decide to name it General Catalyst? How did the first fundraise go for GC Fund I? 2.) Creating a Firm: The Early Days What design objectives did Joel and David have when they started the firm? How did Joel and David think about firm expansion; going to the West Coast? Coming to Europe? Going multi-stage? What drives their decision to do new products? On reflection, what were some of the toughest elements of the early days with GC? What does David believe they got right? Why? What did they get wrong? How would he change it? 3.) The Partnership: What does David believe makes for a truly successful venture partnership? How does a great venture partnership align to what makes a successful marriage? How does David approach trust? How does he build it with people? What situations would cause David to lose trust? Why do so few people understand it? What does David believe is the true secret to authentic relationship building? 4.) Doing the Impossible: Generational Transition: What does David believe they did so right in their generational transition at GC? What do many firms get wrong in handing over the reins to the next generation? What are the biggest commonalities between venture partnerships and filmmaking? Mentioned in Today's Episode with David Fialkow: David's Favourite Book: The 7 Habits Of Highly Effective People

KB is back for a Sunday Night Solo Dolo and kicks the show off with his thoughts on the Sixers losing to the Miami Heat and exiting in the 2nd round of the playoffs once again. He debates giving James Harden the max, questions Doc Rivers keeping his job, and more. Then he talks about the Phils incredible West Coast road trip, wanting Familia launched into the sun, and then talks about the Eagles 2022 schedule, his way too early wins and losses, and a new series coming to our YouTube channel! Follow Us! Twitter: @UndergroundPHI Kyle: @KBizzl311 Matt: @mattcastorina Website: undergroundsportsphiladelphia.com Watch LIVE: YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCXTLztI5KsYQLH0WptJaL-Q FB: facebook.com/UndergroundSportsPHI Twitch: twitch.tv/UndergroundsportsPHI Instagram: @undergroundphi Merch & Apparel: NEW MERCH STORE COMING SOON tomahawkshades.com | Promo Code: "USP" for 25% off at checkout! binhoboard.com | Promo Code: "BinhoUSP" for 10% off at checkout! TrophySmack.com | trophysmack.com/USP?afmc=fw manscaped.com | Promo Code: "USP" for 20% off AND free shipping statesidevodka.com | Promo Code: "USP" for 10% off the 1L Vodka Bottle (Must be 21+ to purchase. Please drink responsibly) Intro Music: Arkells "People's Champ" Outro Music: Arkells "People's Champ"

Corey and Brendan review the Cubs series win in Arizona. They discuss Justin Steele and Kyle Hendricks' resurgence, Seiya Suzuki's return, Nico Hoerner's injury, Scott Effross' Statcast data and success, and updates on Cubs minor league pitchers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

New CITO MERCH > http://bit.ly/citomerch. Recap of the last week + West Coast tour (00:00-27:07). Britney Spears announces miscarriage (29:34-31:39). Selena Gomez hosts SNL + Hailey Bieber drama (31:40-38:52). Zac Efron says he's open to a High School Musical reboot (40:11-51:06). Jason Momoa & Eiza González reportedly dating (51:07-57:22). Chrishell Stause dating G Flip (57:23-59:45). Celeb wedding roundup (1:01:14-1:13:15). Subscribe to our YouTube > http://bit.ly/CITOYOUTUBE. Follow us on Instagram @chicksintheoffice and on Twitter @chicksintheoff + subscribe to our Snapchat show > http://bit.ly/thegroupchat.

Jeanette, Evette & Tina talk about the eclectic trip they take to the West Coast where they visited an umbrella museum, saw painted ladies and ate crawfish beignets on the JET Setting Divas podcast.

Steve Cooper talks with singer/songwriter Matt Simons. Matt has worked continuously for a decade now, achieving huge success – particularly in continental Europe – with music that comes straight from the soul. A West Coast talent who found success outside his homeland, his music has reached huge audiences, with both studio albums to date – Pieces and Catch & Release – moving across the continent, starting with the Netherlands until the whole of Europe knew his name. Last year's After the Landslide was a particular landmark, and 2019 ended with a huge 40 date tour. But then the pandemic intervened. Relocating to California he found himself with the space – and the time – to reflect, and to look inwards. It's sparked a shift in his music, too – singles such as Cold and Better Tomorrow have connected due to their introspection, and the brave frankness of his message. He recently released his new album, Identity Crisis, and has been on tour opening for 2CELLOS in both the USA and Europe.

West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy is Now Open! 8am-9am PT/ 11am-Noon ET for our especially special Daily Specials; Blue Moon Spirits Friday!Starting off in the Bistro Cafe, the January 6 committee has subpoenaed five House Republicans after they stonewalled the panel.On the rest of the menu, Trump officials and meat processors worked closely to keep plants open in the first year of the pandemic, even though they knew workers were rapidly getting infected; the California Coastal Commission voted unanimously to deny a permit to build a $1.4 billion dollar seawater desalination plant; and, with Russia's invasion of Ukraine revealing Vlad's intent, the US Army is poised to revamp its forces in Alaska to better prepare for future cold-weather conflicts.After the break, we move to the Chef's Table where a European Union plan aims to help get wheat from Ukraine to the world; and, Costa Rica declared a state of emergency after a month of crippling ransomware attacks.All that and more, on West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy with Chef de Cuisine Justice Putnam.Bon Appétit!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~“Structural linguistics is a bitterly divided and unhappy profession, and a large number of its practitioners spend many nights drowning their sorrows in Ouisghian Zodahs.” ― Douglas Adams "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Show Notes & Links: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/13/2097728/-West-Coast-Cookbook-amp-Speakeasy-Daily-Special-Blue-Moon-Spirits-FridaysWCC&S Deep State Archive:https://archive.org/details/west_coast_cookbook_and_speakeasy_with_justice_putnam_21_nov_17Netroots Radio Live Player:https://www.netrootsradio.com/

West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy is Now Open! 8am-9am PT/ 11am-Noon ET for our especially special Daily Specials, Metro Shrimp & Grits Thursdays!Starting off in the Bistro Cafe, Eric Holder said an ‘indictment of Trump should be seriously considered.'Then, on the rest of the menu, Joe Biden waived executive privilege for a new set of Trump records; an Idaho health care network sued secessionist gubernatorial candidate Ammon Bundy and his armed mob after a protest they organized forced a hospital into lockdown; and, Herschel Walker's insulting campaign is the worst kind of sports idolatry.After the break, we move to the Chef's Table where the Sri Lankan leader vowed to shed powers and appoint a prime minister; and, Ukrainian refugees in Russia report interrogations, detention and other abuses at the ‘filtration camps.'All that and more, on West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy with Chef de Cuisine Justice Putnam.Bon Appétit!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~“Everyone in this good city enjoys the full right to pursue his own inclinations in all reasonable and, unreasonable ways.” -- The Daily Picayune, New Orleans, March 5, 1851~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Show Notes & Links: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/12/2097501/-West-Coast-Cookbook-amp-Speakeasy-Daily-Special-Metro-Shrimp-amp-Grits-ThursdaysWCC&S Deep State Archive:https://archive.org/details/west_coast_cookbook_and_speakeasy_with_justice_putnam_21_nov_17Netroots Radio Live Player:https://www.netrootsradio.com/

West Coast Swing, we discuss the Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Angels, Oakland A's, and dogs  - if it's happening on the West Coast, we're discussing it on the West Coast Swing.  The full episode was a Live Stream on NoFilter.net - What is No Filter Network?  An interactive live streaming platform that allows viewers to “knock” and then instantly become part of the broadcast via nofilter.net. Click on link and scroll down to Big Ben & K Winn's vault to listen to the full NFL episode: https://nofilter.net/profile/dENt4BqoNZVoSkIf3mQWJ4ww2Ks2  We love hearing from our listeners and hearing about which West Coast topics they enjoy the most: wstpodcastshow@gmail.com

Is tokenization the future of real estate investing?   Vernon J., the founder and CEO of EquityCoin, discusses the potential of blockchain technology in the real estate industry. He emphasizes the importance of community, explaining that a token is similar to stock and that before launching a token, it is important to have credibility and a track record of success. He goes on to say that this is the next frontier in blockchain technology, and regular companies will be able to tokenize their assets and share the profits with their shareholders. He also mentions that tokenization provides the infrastructure for quick transactions, just like with stocks on the stock market.     [00:01 - 04:42] Behind EquityCoin Combating two issues in the commercial real estate market Lack of funding available to underserved communities High cost of traditional financing Removing the bureaucracy and the middlemen [04:43 - 14:06] Blockchain Technology and Tokenization of Assets Blockchain begins and ends with community Creating empowerment ecosystems Building trust and having a good track record Security tokens are actually backed by a company and by assets and are bound by SEC rules and regulations Soon, every company is going to have a tokenized component of their business Build things in a place of credibility and not hype   [14:07 - 17:04] The Tokenization Movement Vernon on what they are working on right now Being a missing link between the developer and the community Empowering and helping developers and leaders to tokenize through EquityShare   [17:05 - 18:51] Closing Segment Think about blockchain technology as the internet of accounting Reach out to Vernon!  Links Below Final Words Tweetable Quotes   “I think blockchain technology is providing a solution where you're kind of removing the middleman. You can remove lawyers, you can remove different people in that ecosystem or in that cycle that is kind of like superfluous.”  - Vernon J.   “I would say, before all of that, it's a track record. It's making sure that you have credibility in the game and skin in the game.” - Vernon J.    “When you think about blockchain technology, it's the basis of cryptocurrency. It's the basis of security token. It's the basis of NFTs. It is the underlying technology behind it.”  - Vernon J. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------   Connect with Vernon! Follow him and EquityCoin on Instagram! Visit the EquityCoin website to know more about blockchain and real estate.   Connect with me:   I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.     Facebook   LinkedIn   Like, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you listen on.  Thank you for tuning in!   Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:   Vernon J.  00:00 I want to be able to delineate between a cryptocurrency and a security token, because when people hear blockchain they go right to Bitcoin. Oh, you're talking about that Bitcoin thing right? But that's the wrong way to think about it. You know, when you think about blockchain technology, it's the basis of cryptocurrency. It's the basis of security token is the basis of NFTs. It is the underlying technology behind it.    Intro  00:25 Welcome to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate Show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.     Sam Wilson  00:37 Vernon J. is the founder and CEO of EquityCoin, the first digital token backed by affordable housing. Since 2006, Vernon has facilitated over $160 million in commercial real estate transactions. And I actually think that number is probably closer to 200. At this point, Vernon, welcome to the show.   Vernon J.  00:54 Sam, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. I'm thrilled to be here to talk about, you know, not only EquityCoin, but also giving general pointers in general gems about how to scale commercial real estate, which is near and dear to my heart so...   Sam Wilson  01:08 I love it. Man, I love it 90 seconds or less? Where do you start? Where are you now how'd you get there,   Vernon J.  01:12 Started in Brooklyn, went to Massachusetts for high school and college. Then I came to LA, now I'm in LA area, had my grassroots, had my teeth in New York, you know, like they say, you know, you start in New York, you can go anywhere. And I truly believe that. And now I'm on the West Coast, you know, doing the same thing, just trying to create more opportunities.    Sam Wilson  01:32 You've spent a lot of time in commercial real estate scaling commercial real estate, but you've kind of taken a left turn, or shall we say, a spin on what you saw in the market? What need did you see in the marketplace? And then how are you solving it?   Vernon J.  01:46 So you know, Sam, I've been blessed man. And I've been blessed to work with family offices throughout my career, you know, wealthy individuals, you know, developers, and what I've noticed, I've actually noticed two things. Throughout my journey. And throughout my career, I've noticed that there's a handful of families and people and individuals and companies that own the lion's share, the most of the real estate in these large cities. Second thing that I've noticed is that when I get financing for my clients, they're doing workforce housing, maybe it's 200 units, or, you know, they're doing a new development, it's actually exponentially easier to get funding for those types of projects than it is to go to a community that may be in blight, or maybe underserved, that really needs the funding. It's exponentially harder to get financing for projects in those neighborhoods and in those communities. So I created EquityCoin, as a way to combat both of those scenarios. So that one, I can create, use the blockchain as a mechanism to allow thousands of people within the communities that we own properties to own the assets, but not only that, be able to, you know, combat or kind of replace the bank in the sense where they're not really providing funding in those communities. So I'm saying you know what, I can come in, I can create this infrastructure, where the community can come together and replace the bank, and actually be another component of the capital stack if we can't completely replace the bank. So that's EquityCoin. In a nutshell, we started in the East New York section of Brooklyn with portfolio of assets over there. And we're expanding to North Miami and South Los Angeles.   Sam Wilson  03:25 So if you had your way, it sounds like you'd like to just replace the bank entirely. And you guys would just come in as a pure equity partner in these deals.    Vernon J.  03:33 That's right. That's the big idea. You know, where we are right now, I think there will be a need for a mixture within the capital stack to have some financing. But I think, you know, for all intents and purposes, the grand vision is to be able to replace, you know, those centralized organizations that they're convoluted with so much bureaucracy, you when you get your funding, you've ended up paying so much more than I think you need to pay. And I think blockchain technology is providing a solution, where you're kind of removing the middleman, you can remove lawyers, you can remove different people in that ecosystem or in that cycle that is kind of like superfluous.   Sam Wilson  04:12 Yeah. I love the idea of blockchain. I love the potentials it has for a lot of industries, especially the real estate industry. It's which is just I don't think I'm telling you anything new, so disjointed in the way that deals get packaged up and done. I mean, title searches alone will just tell you that there's a lot of room for improvement. Are we actually reading a scanned document that was handwritten in 1895? We are reading, okay, great. Just want to make sure it's illegible. I mean, that's the type of stuff we're dealing with. And this will help solve that. But talk to me more practically about the nuances of launching a coin, of getting investors to trust that coin, then having that money then get deployed into the right projects. That's a lot of moving steps. Can you break that down for us?   Vernon J.  04:57 Yeah, for sure. It is in everything on the back. blockchain begins and ends with community, right? So if it weren't for the fact that I've been building a community of stakeholders within the East New York section of Brooklyn, and, you know, 2014, I purchased eastnewyork.com, with my family. And that is the go-to place for everything dealing with East New York, the community, it doesn't matter if you're running for office, local office, if you're building a new development, you're opening up a new store, opening up a new business, whatever it is, all roads lead through eastnewyork.com. And we have over 30,000 members who are stakeholders within the community. So we've spent years developing and harnessing the trust within the community so that they trust who we are, they trust know what we're about. And the idea behind it is to create empowerment ecosystems, right, so where we not only own the media aspect of it, but then we also own the real estate. And we also are connected politically, we're also connected, you know, with all the stakeholders within the communities, I would say that's where it starts, because none of where we are today would have been possible without first building out the community. And then it's also credibility, right? I've got 16 years of experience in the real estate market as a CEO of EquityCoin. So I think when we think about blockchain, we think about this technology, it's not a way where you just come in and you're, all of a sudden, you can create this billion-dollar company or multi-million dollar industry, I think what is required is a credibility and kind of like the steps to take with any business, you know, that you have. So I use blockchain as a way to create more efficiencies in what we do. Right. And I think that's how we need to think about it. Because most of these companies that are coming today are doing really well with blockchain technology, they already have a track record of success. I would say before all of that it's a track record, it's making sure that you have credibility in the game and skin in the game.   Sam Wilson  06:56 Yeah, that makes a heck of a lot of sense. It is an add-on to your business. It is not the creation of a new business is what I'm hearing.   Vernon J.  07:03 That's right. And when you're creating a token, it's similar to creating stock, right? It's very similar in that I want to for the audience, say I want to be able to delineate between a cryptocurrency and a security token, because when people hear blockchain, they go right to Bitcoin. Oh, you're talking about that Bitcoin thing, right. But that's the wrong way to think about it. You know, when you think about blockchain technology, it's the basis of cryptocurrency, it's the basis of security token. It's the basis of NFTs. It is the underlying technology behind it. So a cryptocurrency similar to $1, right? Or the yen, or the euro is not an investment where you believe, don't get a promise of a return from a currency. And that's an important factor when you're dealing with the SEC. But when you have a security token, like EquityCoin, security token is actually backed by a company, it's actually backed by assets. And that's different components of blockchain technology. And that's where we feel is the next horizon, regular companies are going to be able to tokenize their assets, tokenize their company, and allow other people to come in and share the fruits of that labor. One more thing, Sam is like 20 years ago, when the internet was starting to bubble up, right? 20-25 years ago, if you had a website, as a company, you are hot stuff, even simply having a website kind of gave you a competitive advantage, you know, with your peers. But now today, you can go to GoDaddy, Squarespace, you can create your website within five minutes and a pretty comprehensive site, you know. And back then, in order to develop a site, you needed an HTML guy, you needed a PHP guy, it was costly. But again, today, it has become commoditized. So I think we're in that same space with tokenization. Tokenization, today, EquityCoin is a tokenized company. It's a hot-button topic. And I think it's cool. But in 20 years, it's going to be commoditized, you're going to be able, every company is going to be using Blockchain or having a tokenized component of their business, it's no longer going to be a novelty, but more of like a necessity, and more like what you need to do in the business. So I think right now, if you're tokenizing your company, it better have a utility, it better have some sort of advantage. You know, you're not just tokenizing for the sake of tokenization. That's an important piece to interject it.   Sam Wilson  09:26 Appreciate you taking the time to really give some clarity around the difference between crypto security tokens, NFT's, all of that. So you took the step you created EquityCoin, right? You did that, and then I know you said you kind of piggyback that on eastnewyork.com. So you said hey, you started go out to your network. What do people do? Do they just trade their dollars for EquityCoin? How does that work? That's right,   Vernon J.  09:49 So you're trading your fiat currency or it could be a cryptocurrency that you might have, Etherium for example. You can trade that into EquityCoin, and now as EquityCoin holder, you're entitled to quarterly dividends that are paid out from the income from the real estate. But the beauty of tokenization of a company or a real estate or an asset is that it gives you the ability to liquidate quickly. In a normal real estate transaction, if I have 1000 investors in this investment, normally, you can't get out of your position until we sell the entire asset. Or if you find somebody who might want to purchase your shares, then we got to have to get a lawyer involved.   Sam Wilson  10:27 200 pages later, we've traded money.   Vernon J.  10:29 Later, now we finally transferred, but with blockchain and with tokenization, it provides the infrastructure for you to be able to transact as if you were on the NASDAQ or the Russell but you can be a company that maybe only has $10 million in assets or $20 million in assets. But now you can trade as if you were, you know, publicly-traded or similar to a REIT.   Sam Wilson  10:50 What are the securities considerations around this? I mean, this seems like it's an ever-evolving landscape where it's like, oh, one day you can do this. And oh, the next day yo, is 10 million bucks. Because you made a mistake, buddy. I mean, you see this stuff in the news all the time. How are you navigating that landscape?   Vernon J.  11:06 Right. So here's the things, Sam, when you have increased freedom, you have increased responsibility, right. And when you're talking about cryptocurrency, if you own your crypto, and again, there's a difference between cryptocurrency and security tokens, right. But if you own your cryptocurrency, and you have it on an exchange, or you have it on your hard wallet, which I like to use ledger for the audience if they're interested, but you own that, and you are in full control of that. So if somebody steals your keys, your wallet, keys or somehow hacks you, there's no, you know, authority you can go to because that is kind of like the essence of the cryptocurrency world that you don't have ownership, right. But on the flip side, you've got security tokens. And since security tokens are bound by SEC rules and regulations, I'll give you an example one of my token holders lost their keys to their wallet. So we had to replenish, we had to burn their previous tokens, and then replenish their new tokens. This is something that's required with the SEC. This is again, Sam, why I believe that the tokenization of companies and security tokens as a whole is on the horizon is on the cusp of something big because I think people are looking for that balance. They want some security, but then they also want some freedom, and they want it in the middle at this moment. And I think security tokens brings those dynamics to the table.   Sam Wilson  12:31 Yeah, and I think that is an interesting difference between a cryptocurrency and a security token, and that you as the sponsor can issue those security tokens. What have you found on the implementation side of it? Like I know, it's touted as, Hey, these are things that make it easy, we can have 10,000 investors each put in $1. And it's no more work than if I had one investor for $10,000. It's all the same. So I've been told, I don't know, because I don't do this. Is that true?   Vernon J.  12:58 Again, Sam, it all comes back to community, right? Have you created that trust within your community or are you just creating this token out of thin air with no credibility and saying, hey, I want to do this big idea. And now people are investing in that idea. But then they don't have the complete trust. So if they don't have the trust in you, or in the project, it becomes a lot more cloud. And I've seen projects kind of falter, because they've kind of built things from a place of hype. When you build something from a place of hype, it's easy to crumble, it's easy to come down. Everybody listening to this, you know, if you're thinking about tokenization, if you're thinking about, you know, using blockchain technology, you know, tap into your credibility of what makes you great, and what makes you unique, because that combined with blockchain technology is super powerful.   Sam Wilson  13:47 Right. And I think one of the takeaways from this is to demystify some of it is that it isn't the recreation of a new business, it's a different way of doing business. Same thing we were doing before, it's a different way of doing it. That brings just some new communication, some new potential ease of implementation to the operator to the investors, but it's not, it's still the same actual business. Last question for you, I think I might have more, is on the how you guys are selecting projects. I know you're one of your big pushes the affordable housing side, I'm assuming you guys put the money together and then go out and find quality operators to work with or are you guys as well doing the projects yourself?   Vernon J.  14:27 So for EquityCoin, we are doing the projects ourselves. We actually have a call this afternoon with a developer in Brooklyn who's doing a $250 million development, and they're looking to equity coin to be a part of their capital stack so that we can bring the community in so they can own a piece of the asset. They own a piece of this new development because they're getting a lot of pushback from the community because the community said hey, you guys are coming into our neck of the woods from outside and you're not even giving an opportunity for people within the community to own a piece of this right? So now you know EquityCoin can come in and be that missing link from, you know, that bridge between the community and the developer. That's one component. The other. Another big thing that we're working on right now is a system called EquityShare. And what we envision an equity share to be is sort of like the coin base for real estate tokens. And we want to empower other community developers and leaders, you know, like myself all over the country who are looking to tokenize and create a token for their movement. So we can actually help them with the infrastructure of legal compliance, you know, the smart contract, you know, all the SEC, FINRA, making sure that they are breeding a holistic approach to tokenization. And now on equity share, you know, we'll have 100 different tokens that are backed by other assets. It can be a student housing token, it could be a retail token, it could be Amazon warehouse token, Airbnb token, you know, the options are endless. But I think what's important is having the right infrastructure. And again, like I said, before, when the internet started, it was hard to create a website, it was costly. Now you do it in five minutes. And right now, if you want to create a token, it's pretty costly. If you want to create a comprehensive token that has rate network, bring working in the smart contract, but in five to 10 years, you're going to be able to do that, in a snap of a finger. And for EquityShare. Our goal is to get there pretty quickly. So we can, yeah.   Sam Wilson  14:41 If you were taking a stab at what the cost is right now to develop a quality token, what do you think that is?   Vernon J.  16:32 I would say a minimum of 100,000, minimum of 100,000. Because if you look at our balance sheet, most of our capital goes towards compliance, right? So making sure that the token is created in a way that is congruent and consistent with SEC rules and regulations. You know, that's one piece of it. But then also, you've got to make sure that you have the KYC AML. So know your customer, anti-money laundering, these are all things that need to be baked in so that you can avoid fraudsters on your system. It all comes together, I would say about 100 G's.   Sam Wilson  17:03 Right. Got it. Man, Vernon, I love what you're doing. I love your mission. And I love the way you're taking it down. That's absolutely awesome. I mean, and just the idea of you building eastnewyork.com and then coming in and just augmenting that with obviously, blockchain technology, security tokens, all that stuff. And thanks for taking the time to really explain that I think you explain in a very clear way that for a lot of us, myself included, it's commonly like I think I get it but not quite sure. So thank you.   Vernon J.  17:32 Let me leave you with this sample. When I explained blockchain technology, I tried to explain it as the internet of accounting, right? When you start thinking about it like that, it's like okay, you know, you've got it's simply a ledger, and it's a ledger that can't be disrupted, can't be you, know, messed with. And when you have that, you create this trustless society where you now can, every transaction that you make on the blockchain is recorded and recorded forever as long as you have an internet connection. Yeah.   Sam Wilson  17:59 That makes a heck of a lot of sense. Vernon, if our listeners want to get in touch with you what is the best way to do that?   Vernon J.  18:05 Best way is most likely Instagram. My Instagram is @vpeso and then also Instagram @equitycoin, follow our journey. We just did a filming for PBS. So we're going to be in their next segment for their Nova documentary series. Really cool. So look out for that in November.    Sam Wilson  18:22 Awesome, man. Vernon. Thank you again for your time. I do appreciate it.   Vernon J.  18:24 Sam. Thanks a lot, bro.   Sam Wilson  18:25 Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate Podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whatever platform it is you use to listen, if you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories so appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.     

Today's weekend listen comes courtesy of our sister podcast, Danny In The Valley.Yesterday, Elon Musk put his $44 billion takeover of Twitter on pause. Some investors now seem sceptical that the deal will happen at all, although Musk says he remains committed.Whatever happens next at Twitter, the future of online debate is being thrashed out in public this weekend. So today we're listening to a recent podcast from Sunday Times West Coast correspondent Danny Fortson, examining the deal and the state of social media.This podcast was brought to you thanks to the support of readers of The Times and The Sunday Times. Subscribe today and get one month free at: thetimes.co.uk/storiesofourtimes. Subscribe for free to Danny In The Valley: https://podfollow.com/danny-in-the-valleyHost: Danny Fortson, West Coast correspondent, The Sunday Times.Guests: - Hany Farid, professor at UC Berkeley's School of Information.- James Currier, general partner at NFX. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

West Coast lucha libre star Papo esco joins Miranda Morales, Brendan Barr, and Dusty Murphy for a special sit down interview on Lucha Central Weekly!Papo Esco discusses the west coast lucha scene, working with the Pro Wrestling Revolution training academy, this weekend's PCW Ultra match, hosting his own podcast, and much more (including a special shout out to Kevin Kleinrock and Wrestling Society X!).For all things lucha libre, follow along at LuchaCentral.com!

The Phillies have opened their tough West Coast trip with three wins in four games and the offense is rolling behind Bryce Harper and a couple of warming bats.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Tune in TOMORROW, 5/13/22 at 7:00am EST for a new episode of The 13th Avenue Media Show featuring CEO and Founder of West Coast Medical Resources, LLC, Randy Ware! ▪︎ ▪︎ ▪︎ ABOUT OUR GUEST: Randy Ware is CEO and Founder of WestCMR, LLC, the world's leading healthcare industry surplus surgical supply company. After facing health challenges with his newborn son in 1991, Randy's perspective as to what mattered most was forever changed. His family's experience with the hospital that saved his son's life became the silver lining that inspired his future vision for WestCMR. In 1997, Randy founded WestCMR as the first company to create a niche marketplace to allow hospitals and surgery centers to manage inventory sustainably, by capitalizing upon surplus products that would normally have gone to landfills. From its headquarters in Clearwater, Florida, WestCMR employs a national and international sales team that buys and sells throughout the U.S. and over 65 countries, while maintaining its sustainable mission as a zero landfill company. With all the success WestCMR has enjoyed as a company, it is the ups and downs in Randy's life that inspired a passion for corporate and personal giving back that never wanes. Since 2013, Randy has served on the board of the Children's Dream Fund, where he has raised half-a-million dollars to fulfill dreams for children with life-threatening illnesses. In November of 2019, he took three WestCMR team members Cambodia, to join 90 other volunteers from around the world to participate in a Global Village build with Habitat for Humanity. Through Randy's life-long commitment to pay his passion forward, he personally charges his family of companies with serving the community and partnering with charitable organizations that are making a difference in people's lives. As a result, WestCMR proudly donates more than 1% of its annual revenue to charity. #clearwater #westcmr #lucky13 #clearwaterbusiness #mediacompany --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/13th-ave-media/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/13th-ave-media/support

Mona Monsour ( Playwright) THE VAGRANT TRILOGY will make its New York City debut in April 2022 at the Public Theater, directed by Mark Wing-Davey; the production was in technical rehearsals in March 2020 and was postponed due to Covid-19. UNSEEN will have its West Coast debut at Oregon Shakespeare Festival in spring 2022, directed by Evren Odcikin. WE SWIM, WE TALK, WE GO TO WAR premiered at SF's Golden Thread in 2018 (dir. Odcikin). THE VAGRANT TRILOGY was presented at Mosaic Theater in June 2018, (dir. Wing-Davey.) Of the trilogy: THE HOUR OF FEELING (dir. Wing-Davey) premiered at the Humana Festival at Actors Theatre of Louisville, and an Arabic translation was presented at NYU Abu Dhabi, as part of its Arab Voices Festival in 2016. URGE FOR GOING: productions at the Public Theater (dir. Hal Brooks) and Golden Thread (dir. Odcikin). THE VAGRANT was commissioned by the Public and workshopped at the 2013 Sundance Theater Institute. THE WAY WEST: Labyrinth (dir. Mimi O'Donnell); Village Theater (dir. Christina Myatt); Steppenwolf (dir. Amy Morton); and Marin Theatre Company (dir. Hayley Finn). Other credits: IN THE OPEN, for Waterwell, directed by James Dean Palmer, and ACROSS THE WATER, written for third-year MFAs at NYU (dir. Scott Illingworth). Mona was a member of the Public Theater's Emerging Writers Group. With Tala Manassah she has written FALLING DOWN THE STAIRS, an EST/Sloan commission. Their play DRESSING is part OF FACING OUR TRUTHS: SHORT PLAYS ABOUT TRAYVON, RACE AND PRIVILEGE, commissioned by the New Black Festival. Commissions include Playwrights Horizons and La Jolla Playhouse. 2020 Helen Merrill Award, 2012 Whiting Award. 2014 Middle East America Playwright Award, MacDowell Colony 2018, New Dramatists Class of 2020. Mona writes for NBC's New Amsterdam and is creating series for FlipNarrative and AMC International. BEGINNING DAYS OF TRUE JUBILATION, directed by Scott Illingworth and conceived with her company SOCIETY, was part of New Ohio's Ice Factory Digital Festival in summer 2020. In September 2020, Mona received the prestigious Kesselring Prize, awarded by the National Arts Club to one playwright a year. She was nominated by Seattle Rep for her play THE HOUR OF FEELING. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jackie discusses moving from the East Coast to the West Coast and discovering herself along the way. She discusses her job as a life coach and talks about unique ways in which we can practice self-care.

Artist and former KSDK anchor talks about the Wildfires that are picking up on the West Coast near her home town of Santa Fe.

A round-up of the main headlines in Sweden on May 12th, 2022. You can hear more reports on our homepage www.radiosweden.se, or in our app Sveriges Radio Play. Presenter: Michael WalshProducer: Frank Radosevich

West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy is Now Open! 8am-9am PT/ 11am-Noon ET for our especially special Daily Specials, Smothered Benedict Wednesdays!Starting off in the Bistro Cafe, Senator Whitehouse explained how "Brett Kavanaugh was not properly vetted and the FBI was not allowed to do a proper supplemental background investigation."On the rest of the menu, a Tennessee attorney with deep ties to Russian agents, said Russia is better at running elections than the US, that's why he's helping the GOP; the pandemic is getting tougher to track as COVID testing plunges; and, California laid out a plan to drastically cut fossil fuel use.After the break, we move to the Chef's Table where the Paraguay organized crime prosecutor was slain on a Colombian beach as he honeymooned with his new wife; and, an El Salvadoran court sentenced a woman who suffered an obstetric emergency that ended her pregnancy to thirty years in prison for aggravated homicide.All that and more, on West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy with Chef de Cuisine Justice Putnam.Bon Appétit!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Show Notes & Links: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/11/2097285/-West-Coast-Cookbook-amp-Speakeasy-Daily-Special-Smothered-Benedict-Wednesdays

West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy is Now Open! 8am-9am PT/ 11am-Noon ET for our especially special Daily Special; Tarrytown Chowder Tuesdays!Starting off in the Bistro Cafe, Alito cited the recent decline in the ‘domestic supply of infants' for adoption as the reason to overturn Roe.Then, on the rest of the menu, Joe Biden announced that twenty internet companies have agreed to provide discounted service to people with low incomes; a $20 million HUD grant doubles the size of its eviction protection program; and, lawyers for Michael Sussmann say they plan to call a former New York Times reporter as a witness to help show the attorney is not guilty of the charges in Durham's witch hunt.After the break, we move to the Chef's Table where Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam said that Chinese patriots are now firmly in charge of the city; and, Andy Warhol's iconic portrait of Marilyn Monroe sold for a cool $195 million, making it the most expensive work by a US artist ever sold at auction.All that and more, on West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy with Chef de Cuisine Justice Putnam.Bon Appétit!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~“As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.” - Ernest Hemingway "A Moveable Feast"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Show Notes & Links:https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/10/2097070/-West-Coast-Cookbook-amp-Speakeasy-Daily-Special-Tarrytown-Chowder-Tuesdays

West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy is Now Open! 8am-9am PT/ 11am-Noon ET for our especially special Daily Specials; River City Hash Mondays!Starting off in the Bistro Cafe, the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe is on track to shake up the midterms.Then, on the rest of the menu, a confusing debate suggests homework is too much when it's often too little; the pandemic has pushed Oregon's public defender system to the brink; and, Daunte Wright's mother was injured by police while legally videotaping a traffic stop from across the street.After the break, we move to the Chef's Table where divisions in the Taliban deepen as Afghan women defy the nation's strict veil edict; and, Northern Ireland's rival parties are urged to work together after Sinn Fein's historic electoral victory.All that and more, on West Coast Cookbook & Speakeasy with Chef de Cuisine Justice Putnam.Bon Appétit!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"I was never a spy. I was with the OSS organization. We had a number of women, but we were all office help." -- Julia Child~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Show Notes & Links:https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/9/2096820/-West-Coast-Cookbook-Speakeasy-Daily-Special-River-City-Hash-Mondays

On today's episode, Blake Jude (@BlakeJude714) from Stripe Hype (@stripehypecincy) joins the show to play an official game of NAME!! THAT!! COACH!! We also watch the final 5 minutes of the Bucks-Celtics game together, talk about NFL Draft scouting for 2023, the Miami Heat and Philadelphia 76ers series, and the ACC Coastal. We also have our first installment of "How Bad are the Cincinnati Reds" and a 15-20 minute debate about the best types of Ice Cream. We also figure out what fast-food restaurants don't exist in the Midwest and West Coast of the United States. Finally, we play a guessing game of all the best and worst NFL teams according to Mike Clay's Post-Draft 2022 NFL Unit Grades. CKSAML Productions This show is presented by BetOnline Sportsbook. Use Code “BLEAV” for a 50% bonus on your initial deposit

On this weeks episode of the Frame & Reference Podcast Kenny talks with cinematographer Carl Here about the Apple TV+ show "The Afterparty." You might also know Carl from his work on shows like "Barry", "Black Monday", and "The Last Man on Earth." Enjoy the episode! Follow Kenny on Twitter @kwmcmillan Frame & Reference is supported by Filmtools and ProVideo Coalition. Filmtools is the West Coasts leading supplier of film equipment. From cameras and lights to grip and expendables, Filmtools has you covered for all your film gear needs. Check out Filmtools.com for more. ProVideo Coalition is a top news and reviews site focusing on all things production and post. Check out ProVideoCoalition.com for the latest news coming out of the industry. Check out ProVideoCoalition.com for more!

Mark Duffield, chief football writer for The West Australian, is joined by Glen Quartermain, sports chief of staff, to discuss Leon Cameron's legacy at GWS, West Coast's future on and off the field and Freo's danger game. Plus, Duff and Quarters read out your other thoughts on the Thirsty Camel mailbag and the boys answer your questions. If you have a question or comment for the guys, send your messages to duffandquarters@wanews.com.au There's a carton of Gage Roads Alby Draught up for grabs! For more from the guys, and the latest news in sport, head to thewest.com.au/sport See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Brett Rutherford recaps the Rays' 10-game West Coast road trip and 'Rayses' his voice about the current television landscape in Major League Baseball.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Alex Kirry and Scott Mitchell dive into some comments made by former Oregon head coach Mike Bellotti who said that West Coast teams and its fans just don't have the same passion as the Big Ten or SEC. Follow UnRivaled onTwitter,InstagramandFacebook for more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Los is in between a rock and a hard place now with rooting for Nakobe Dean. This Braves outfield shows you just how special the 2021 run to a world title was... Los takes great pleasure when this happens... College Football Playoff is going to be in this major West Coast city. Why? Plus, we get a Front Office Los.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Los is in between a rock and a hard place now with rooting for Nakobe Dean. This Braves outfield shows you just how special the 2021 run to a world title was... Los takes great pleasure when this happens... College Football Playoff is going to be in this major West Coast city. Why? Plus, we get a Front Office Los.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week the International Longshore and Warehouse Union and the Pacific Maritime Association started negotiations on a new contract that would affect dockworkers up and down the West Coast. As the supply chain already faces major disruptions, some - including farmers in the Pacific Northwest - are concerned about a labor impasse that could create further challenges. We hear more from Peter Goodman, a global economic correspondent for The New York Times and author of "Davos Man: How the Billionaires Devoured the World."

Josh and The Producer get the original team back together for Episode 305. It is always great to the original crew back together. But where has Pies been and What has he been doing?? We have a new Bats and Balls Champion after the might Parramatta Eels won the battle of the west and destroyed the Panthers. Adam Reynolds showed the Rabbits why it was a mistake to let him go and we had another send off and a sin bin that could have been a send off all in the same game. West Coast has used the about 1000000 players so far this season and with how fit Pies is he may even be asked for a run. Geelong and Fremantle crushed their opposition and Melbourne just keep on winning. EPL is a as close as ever with it all locked up at the top of the Ladder between Liverpool and Man City with City having an extra game to play. It is really Man City comp to lose. Brighton surprised everyone giving Man United and 4-0 belting. Miami was the Venue for the F1 and Max Verstappen winning again. 0:00:00 – NRL & NRLW 1:00:00 – NRL Supercoach 1:16:00 – AFL & AFL Supercoach 1:36:00 – EPL 1:47:00 – F1 & NBA Twitter - @batsandballspod Brendan - @The Producer05 Josh - @PiesJosh Colbee - @colbee6ref Mendy - @BigMendy180 Darren - @Dazza_20 Erik - @ErikNielsen2759 Part of the Always Up Network Always Up Network - @AlwaysUpNetwork  #AUN Email - batsandballspodcast@gmail.com facebook.com/batsandballspodcast http://batsandballspodcast.com/

About AmyAmy Tobey has worked in tech for more than 20 years at companies of every size, working with everything from kernel code to user interfaces. These days she spends her time building an innovative Site Reliability Engineering program at Equinix, where she is a principal engineer. When she's not working, she can be found with her nose in a book, watching anime with her son, making noise with electronics, or doing yoga poses in the sun.Links Referenced: Equinix Metal: https://metal.equinix.com Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/MissAmyTobey Personal Blog: https://tobert.github.io/ TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by our friends at Vultr. Optimized cloud compute plans have landed at Vultr to deliver lightning-fast processing power, courtesy of third-gen AMD EPYC processors without the IO or hardware limitations of a traditional multi-tenant cloud server. Starting at just 28 bucks a month, users can deploy general-purpose, CPU, memory, or storage optimized cloud instances in more than 20 locations across five continents. Without looking, I know that once again, Antarctica has gotten the short end of the stick. Launch your Vultr optimized compute instance in 60 seconds or less on your choice of included operating systems, or bring your own. It's time to ditch convoluted and unpredictable giant tech company billing practices and say goodbye to noisy neighbors and egregious egress forever. Vultr delivers the power of the cloud with none of the bloat. “Screaming in the Cloud” listeners can try Vultr for free today with a $150 in credit when they visit getvultr.com/screaming. That's G-E-T-V-U-L-T-R dot com slash screaming. My thanks to them for sponsoring this ridiculous podcast.Corey: Finding skilled DevOps engineers is a pain in the neck! And if you need to deploy a secure and compliant application to AWS, forgettaboutit! But that's where DuploCloud can help. Their comprehensive no-code/low-code software platform guarantees a secure and compliant infrastructure in as little as two weeks, while automating the full DevSecOps lifestyle. Get started with DevOps-as-a-Service from DuploCloud so that your cloud configurations are done right the first time. Tell them I sent you and your first two months are free. To learn more visit: snark.cloud/duplo. Thats's snark.cloud/D-U-P-L-O-C-L-O-U-D.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. Every once in a while I catch up with someone that it feels like I've known for ages, and I realize somehow I have never been able to line up getting them on this show as a guest. Today is just one of those days. And my guest is Amy Tobey who has been someone I've been talking to for ages, even in the before-times, if you can remember such a thing. Today, she's a Senior Principal Engineer at Equinix. Amy, thank you for finally giving in to my endless wheedling.Amy: Thanks for having me. You mentioned the before-times. Like, I remember it was, like, right before the pandemic we had beers in San Francisco wasn't it? There was Ian there—Corey: Yeah, I—Amy: —and a couple other people. It was a really great time. And then—Corey: I vaguely remember beer. Yeah. And then—Amy: And then the world ended.Corey: Oh, my God. Yes. It's still March of 2020, right?Amy: As far as I know. Like, I haven't checked in a couple years.Corey: So, you do an awful lot. And it's always a difficult question to ask someone, so can you encapsulate your entire existence in a paragraph? It's—Amy: [sigh].Corey: —awful, so I'd like to give a bit more structure to it. Let's start with the introduction: You are a Senior Principal Engineer. We know it's high level because of all the adjectives that get put in there, and none of those adjectives are ‘associate' or ‘beginner' or ‘junior,' or all the other diminutives that companies like to play games with to justify paying people less. And you're at Equinix, which is a company that is a bit unlike most of the, shall we say, traditional cloud providers. What do you do over there and both as a company, as a person?Amy: So, as a company Equinix, what most people know about is that we have a whole bunch of data centers all over the world. I think we have the most of any company. And what we do is we lease out space in that data center, and then we have a number of other products that people don't know as well, which one is Equinix Metal, which is what I specifically work on, where we rent you bare-metal servers. None of that fancy stuff that you get any other clouds on top of it, there's things you can get that are… partner things that you can add-on, like, you know, storage and other things like that, but we just deliver you bare-metal servers with really great networking. So, what I work on is the reliability of that whole system. All of the things that go into provisioning the servers, making them come up, making sure that they get delivered to the server, make sure the API works right, all of that stuff.Corey: So, you're on the Equinix cloud side of the world more so than you are on the building data centers by the sweat of your brow, as they say?Amy: Correct. Yeah, yeah. Software side.Corey: Excellent. I spent some time in data centers in the early part of my career before cloud ate that. That was sort of cotemporaneous with the discovery that I'm the hardware destruction bunny, and I should go to great pains to keep my aura from anything expensive and important, like, you know, the SAN. So—Amy: Right, yeah.Corey: Companies moving out of data centers, and me getting out was a great thing.Amy: But the thing about SANs though, is, like, it might not be you. They're just kind of cursed from the start, right? They just always were kind of fussy and easy to break.Corey: Oh, yeah. I used to think—and I kid you not—that I had a limited upside to my career in tech because I sometimes got sloppy and I was fairly slow at crimping ethernet cables.Amy: [laugh].Corey: That is very similar to growing up in third grade when it became apparent that I was going to have problems in my career because my handwriting was sloppy. Yeah, it turns out the future doesn't look like we predicted it would.Amy: Oh, gosh. Are we going to talk about, like, neurological development now or… [laugh] okay, that's a thing I struggle with, too right, is I started typing as soon as they would let—in fact, before they would let me. I remember in high school, I had teachers who would grade me down for typing a paper out. They want me to handwrite it and I would go, “Cool. Go ahead and take a grade off because if I handwrite it, you're going to take two grades off my handwriting, so I'm cool with this deal.”Corey: Yeah, it was pretty easy early on. I don't know when the actual shift was, but it became more and more apparent that more and more things are moving towards a world where you could type. And I was almost five when I started working on that stuff, and that really wound up changing a lot of aspects of how I started seeing things. One thing I think you're probably fairly well known for is incidents. I want to be clear when I say that you are not the root cause as—“So, why are things broken?” “It's Amy again. What's she gotten into this time?” Great.Amy: [laugh]. But it does happen, but not all the time.Corey: Exa—it's a learning experience.Amy: Right.Corey: You've also been deeply involved with SREcon and a number of—a lot of aspects of what I will term—and please don't yell at me for this—SRE culture—Amy: Yeah.Corey: Which is sometimes a challenging thing to wind up describing or putting a definition around. The one that I've always been somewhat partial to is, “SRE is DevOps, except you worked at Google for a while.” I don't know how necessarily accurate that is, but it does rile people up.Amy: Yeah, it does. Dave Stanke actually did a really great talk at SREcon San Francisco just a couple weeks ago, about the DORA report. And the new DORA report, they split SRE out into its own function and kind of is pushing against that old model, which actually comes from Liz Fong-Jones—I think it's from her, or older—about, like, class SRE implements DevOps, which is kind of this idea that, like, SREs make DevOps happen. Things have evolved, right, since then. Things have evolved since Google released those books, and we're all just figured out what works and what doesn't a little bit.And so, it's not that we're implementing DevOps so much. In fact, it's that ops stuff that kind of holds us back from the really high impact work that SREs, I think, should be doing, that aren't just, like, fixing the problems, the symptoms down at the bottom layer, right? Like what we did as sysadmins 20 years ago. You know, we'd go and a lot of people are SREs that came out of the sysadmin world and still think in that mode, where it's like, “Well, I set up the systems, and when things break, I go and I fix them.” And, “Why did the developers keep writing crappy code? Why do I have to always getting up in the middle of the night because this thing crashed?”And it turns out that the work we need to do to make things more reliable, there's a ceiling to how far away the platform can take us, right? Like, we can have the best platform in the world with redundancy, and, you know, nine-way replicated data storage and all this crazy stuff, and still if we put crappy software on top, it's going to be unreliable. So, how do we make less crappy software? And for most of my career, people would be, like, “Well, you should test it.” And so, we started doing that, and we still have crappy software, so what's going on here? We still have incidents.So, we write more tests, and we still have incidents. We had a QA group, we still have incidents. We send the developers to training, and we still have incidents. So like, what is the thing we need to do to make things more reliable? And it turns out, most of it is culture work.Corey: My perspective on this stems from being a grumpy old sysadmin. And at some point, I started calling myself a systems engineer or DevOps or production engineer, or SRE. It was all from my point of view, the same job, but you know, if you call yourself a sysadmin, you're just asking for a 40% pay cut off the top.Amy: [laugh].Corey: But I still tended to view the world through that lens. I tended to be very good at Linux systems internals, for example, understanding system calls and the rest, but increasingly, as the DevOps wave or SRE wave, or Google-isation of the internet wound up being more and more of a thing, I found myself increasingly in job interviews, where, “Great, now, can you go wind up implementing a sorting algorithm on the whiteboard?” “What on earth? No.” Like, my lingua franca is shitty Bash, and no one tends to write that without a bunch of tab completions and quick checking with manpages—die.net or whatnot—on the fly as you go down that path.And it was awful, and I felt… like my skill set was increasingly eroding. And it wasn't honestly until I started this place where I really got into writing a fair bit of code to do different things because it felt like an orthogonal skill set, but the fullness of time, it seems like it's not. And it's a reskilling. And it made me wonder, does this mean that the areas of technology that I focused on early in my career, was that all a waste? And the answer is not really. Sometimes, sure, in that I don't spend nearly as much time worrying about inodes—for example—as I once did. But every once in a while, I'll run into something and I looked like a wizard from the future, but instead, I'm a wizard from the past.Amy: Yeah, I find that a lot in my work, now. Sometimes things I did 20 years ago, come back, and it's like, oh, yeah, I remember I did all that threading work in 2002 in Perl, and I learned everything the very, very, very hard way. And then, you know, this January, did some threading work to fix some stability issues, and all of it came flooding back, right? Just that the experiences really, more than the code or the learning or the text and stuff; more just the, like, this feels like threads [BLEEP]-ery. Is a diagnostic thing that sometimes we have to say.And then people are like, “Can you prove it?” And I'm like, “Not really,” because it's literally thread [BLEEP]-ery. Like, the definition of it is that there's weird stuff happening that we can't figure out why it's happening. There's something acting in the system that isn't synchronized, that isn't connected to other things, that's happening out of order from what we expect, and if we had a clear signal, we would just fix it, but we don't. We just have, like, weird stuff happening over here and then over there and over there and over there.And, like, that tells me there's just something happening at that layer and then have to go and dig into that right, and like, just basically charge through. My colleagues are like, “Well, maybe you should look at this, and go look at the database,” the things that they're used to looking at and that their experiences inform, whereas then I bring that ancient toiling through the threading mines experiences back and go, “Oh, yeah. So, let's go find where this is happening, where people are doing dangerous things with threads, and see if we can spot something.” But that came from that experience.Corey: And there's so much that just repeats itself. And history rhymes. The challenge is that, do you have 20 years of experience, or do you have one year of experience repeated 20 times? And as the tide rises, doing the same task by hand, it really is just a matter of time before your full-time job winds up being something a piece of software does. An easy example is, “Oh, what's your job?” “I manually place containers onto specific hosts.” “Well, I've got news for you, and you're not going to like it at all.”Amy: Yeah, yeah. I think that we share a little bit. I'm allergic to repeated work. I don't know if allergic is the right word, but you know, if I sit and I do something once, fine. Like, I'll just crank it out, you know, it's this form, or it's a datafile I got to write and I'll—fine I'll type it in and do the manual labor.The second time, the difficulty goes up by ten, right? Like, just mentally, just to do it, be like, I've already done this once. Doing it again is anathema to everything that I am. And then sometimes I'll get through it, but after that, like, writing a program is so much easier because it's like exponential, almost, growth in difficulty. You know, the third time I have to do the same thing that's like just typing the same stuff—like, look over here, read this thing and type it over here—I'm out; I can't do it. You know, I got to find a way to automate. And I don't know, maybe normal people aren't driven to live this way, but it's kept me from getting stuck in those spots, too.Corey: It was weird because I spent a lot of time as a consultant going from place to place and it led to some weird changes. For example, “Oh, thank God, I don't have to think about that whole messaging queue thing.” Sure enough, next engagement, it's message queue time. Fantastic. I found that repeating myself drove me nuts, but you also have to be very sensitive not to wind up, you know, stealing IP from the people that you're working with.Amy: Right.Corey: But what I loved about the sysadmin side of the world is that the vast majority of stuff that I've taken with me, lives in my shell config. And what I mean by that is I'm not—there's nothing in there is proprietary, but when you have a weird problem with trying to figure out the best way to figure out which Ruby process is stealing all the CPU, great, turns out that you can chain seven or eight different shell commands together through a bunch of pipes. I don't want to remember that forever. So, that's the sort of thing I would wind up committing as I learned it. I don't remember what company I picked that up at, but it was one of those things that was super helpful.I have a sarcastic—it's a one-liner, except no sane editor setting is going to show it in any less than three—of a whole bunch of Perl, piped into du, piped into the rest, that tells you one of the largest consumers of files in a given part of the system. And it rates them with stars and it winds up doing some neat stuff. I would never sit down and reinvent something like that today, but the fact that it's there means that I can do all kinds of neat tricks when I need to. It's making sure that as you move through your career, on some level, you're picking up skills that are repeatable and applicable beyond one company.Amy: Skills and tooling—Corey: Yeah.Amy: —right? Like, you just described the tool. Another SREcon talk was John Allspaw and Dr. Richard Cook talking about above the line; below the line. And they started with these metaphors about tools, right, showing all the different kinds of hammers.And if you're a blacksmith, a lot of times you craft specialized hammers for very specific jobs. And that's one of the properties of a tool that they were trying to get people to think about, right, is that tools get crafted to the job. And what you just described as a bespoke tool that you had created on the fly, that kind of floated under the radar of intellectual property. [laugh].So, let's not tell the security or IP people right? Like, because there's probably billions and billions of dollars of technically, like, made-up IP value—I'm doing air quotes with my fingers—you know, that's just basically people's shell profiles. And my God, the Emacs automation that people have done. If you've ever really seen somebody who's amazing at Emacs and is 10, 20, 30, maybe 40 years of experience encoded in their emacs settings, it's a wonder to behold. Like, I look at it and I go, “Man, I wish I could do that.”It's like listening to a really great guitar player and be like, “Wow, I wish I could play like them.” You see them just flying through stuff. But all that IP in there is both that person's collection of wisdom and experience and working with that code, but also encodes that stuff like you described, right? It's just all these little systems tricks and little fiddly commands and things we don't want to remember and so we encode them into our toolset.Corey: Oh, yeah. Anything I wound up taking, I always would share it with people internally, too. I'd mention, “Yeah, I'm keeping this in my shell files.” Because I disclosed it, which solves a lot of the problem. And also, none of it was even close to proprietary or anything like that. I'm sorry, but the way that you wind up figuring out how much of a disk is being eaten up and where in a more pleasing way, is not a competitive advantage. It just isn't.Amy: It isn't to you or me, but, you know, back in the beginning of our careers, people thought it was worth money and should be proprietary. You know, like, oh, that disk-checking script as a competitive advantage for our company because there are only a few of us doing this work. Like, it was actually being able to, like, manage your—[laugh] actually manage your servers was a competitive advantage. Now, it's kind of commodity.Corey: Let's also be clear that the world has moved on. I wound up buying a DaisyDisk a while back for Mac, which I love. It is a fantastic, pretty effective, “Where's all the stuff on your disk going?” And it does a scan and you can drive and collect things and delete them when trying to clean things out. I was using it the other day, so it's top of mind at the moment.But it's way more polished than that crappy Perl three-liner. And I see both sides, truly I do. The trick also, for those wondering [unintelligible 00:15:45], like, “Where is the line?” It's super easy. Disclose it, what you're doing, in those scenarios in the event someone is no because they believe that finding the right man page section for something is somehow proprietary.Great. When you go home that evening in a completely separate environment, build it yourself from scratch to solve the problem, reimplement it and save that. And you're done. There are lots of ways to do this. Don't steal from your employer, but your employer employs you; they don't own you and the way that you think about these problems.Every person I've met who has had a career that's longer than 20 minutes has a giant doc somewhere on some system of all of the scripts that they wound up putting together, all of the one-liners, the notes on, “Next time you see this, this is the thing to check.”Amy: Yeah, the cheat sheet or the notebook with all the little commands, or again the Emacs config, sometimes for some people, or shell profiles. Yeah.Corey: Here's the awk one-liner that I put that automatically spits out from an Apache log file what—the httpd log file that just tells me what are the most frequent talkers, and what are the—Amy: You should probably let go of that one. You know, like, I think that one's lifetime is kind of past, Corey. Maybe you—Corey: I just have to get it working with Nginx, and we're good to go.Amy: Oh, yeah, there you go. [laugh].Corey: Or S3 access logs. Perish the thought. But yeah, like, what are the five most high-volume talkers, and what are those relative to each other? Huh, that one thing seems super crappy and it's coming from Russia. But that's—hmm, one starts to wonder; maybe it's time to dig back in.So, one of the things that I have found is that a lot of the people talking about SRE seem to have descended from an ivory tower somewhere. And they're talking about how some of the best-in-class companies out there, renowned for their technical cultures—at least externally—are doing these things. But there's a lot more folks who are not there. And honestly, I consider myself one of those people who is not there. I was a competent engineer, but never a terrific one.And looking at the way this was described, I often came away thinking, “Okay, it was the purpose of this conference talk just to reinforce how smart people are, and how I'm not,” and/or, “There are the 18 cultural changes you need to make to your company, and then you can do something kind of like we were just talking about on stage.” It feels like there's a combination of problems here. One is making this stuff more accessible to folks who are not themselves in those environments, and two, how to drive cultural change as an individual contributor if that's even possible. And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you have thoughts on both aspects of that, and probably some more hit me, please.Amy: So, the ivory tower, right. Let's just be straight up, like, the ivory tower is Google. I mean, that's where it started. And we get it from the other large companies that, you know, want to do conference talks about what this stuff means and what it does. What I've kind of come around to in the last couple of years is that those talks don't really reach the vast majority of engineers, they don't really apply to a large swath of the enterprise especially, which is, like, where a lot of the—the bulk of our industry sits, right? We spend a lot of time talking about the darlings out here on the West Coast in high tech culture and startups and so on.But, like, we were talking about before we started the show, right, like, the interior of even just America, is filled with all these, like, insurance and banks and all of these companies that are cranking out tons of code and servers and stuff, and they're trying to figure out the same problems. But they're structured in companies where their tech arm is still, in most cases, considered a cost center, often is bundled under finance, for—that's a whole show of itself about that historical blunder. And so, the tech culture is tend to be very, very different from what we experience in—what do we call it anymore? Like, I don't even want to say West Coast anymore because we've gone remote, but, like, high tech culture we'll say. And so, like, thinking about how to make SRE and all this stuff more accessible comes down to, like, thinking about who those engineers are that are sitting at the computers, writing all the code that runs our banks, all the code that makes sure that—I'm trying to think of examples that are more enterprise-y right?Or shoot buying clothes online. You go to Macy's for example. They have a whole bunch of servers that run their online store and stuff. They have internal IT-ish people who keep all this stuff running and write that code and probably integrating open-source stuff much like we all do. But when you go to try to put in a reliability program that's based on the current SRE models, like SLOs; you put in SLOs and you start doing, like, this incident management program that's, like, you know, you have a form you fill out after every incident, and then you [unintelligible 00:20:25] retros.And it turns out that those things are very high-level skills, skills and capabilities in an organization. And so, when you have this kind of IT mindset or the enterprise mindset, bringing the culture together to make those things work often doesn't happen. Because, you know, they'll go with the prescriptive model and say, like, okay, we're going to implement SLOs, we're going to start measuring SLIs on all of the services, and we're going to hold you accountable for meeting those targets. If you just do that, right, you're just doing more gatekeeping and policing of your tech environment. My bet is, reliability almost never improves in those cases.And that's been my experience, too, and why I get charged up about this is, if you just go slam in these practices, people end up miserable, the practices then become tarnished because people experienced the worst version of them. And then—Corey: And with the remote explosion as well, it turns out that changing jobs basically means their company sends you a different Mac, and the next Monday, you wind up signing into a different Slack team.Amy: Yeah, so the culture really matters, right? You can't cover it over with foosball tables and great lunch. You actually have to deliver tools that developers want to use and you have to deliver a software engineering culture that brings out the best in developers instead of demanding the best from developers. I think that's a fundamental business shift that's kind of happening. If I'm putting on my wizard hat and looking into the future and dreaming about what might change in the world, right, is that there's kind of a change in how we do leadership and how we do business that's shifting more towards that model where we look at what people are capable of and we trust in our people, and we get more out of them, the knowledge work model.If we want more knowledge work, we need people to be happy and to feel engaged in their community. And suddenly we start to see these kind of generational, bigger-pie kind of things start to happen. But how do we get there? It's not SLOs. It maybe it's a little bit starting with incidents. That's where I've had the most success, and you asked me about that. So, getting practical, incident management is probably—Corey: Right. Well, as I see it, the problem with SLOs across the board is it feels like it's a very insular community so far, and communicating it to engineers seems to be the focus of where the community has been, but from my understanding of it, you absolutely need buy-in at significantly high executive levels, to at the very least by you air cover while you're doing these things and making these changes, but also to help drive that cultural shift. None of this is something I have the slightest clue how to do, let's be very clear. If I knew how to change a company's culture, I'd have a different job.Amy: Yeah. [laugh]. The biggest omission in the Google SRE books was [Ers 00:22:58]. There was a guy at Google named Ers who owns availability for Google, and when anything is, like, in dispute and bubbles up the management team, it goes to Ers, and he says, “Thou shalt…” right? Makes the call. And that's why it works, right?Like, it's not just that one person, but that system of management where the whole leadership team—there's a large, very well-funded team with a lot of power in the organization that can drive availability, and they can say, this is how you're going to do metrics for your service, and this is the system that you're in. And it's kind of, yeah, sure it works for them because they have all the organizational support in place. What I was saying to my team just the other day—because we're in the middle of our SLO rollout—is that really, I think an SLO program isn't [clear throat] about the engineers at all until late in the game. At the beginning of the game, it's really about getting the leadership team on board to say, “Hey, we want to put in SLIs and SLOs to start to understand the functioning of our software system.” But if they don't have that curiosity in the first place, that desire to understand how well their teams are doing, how healthy their teams are, don't do it. It's not going to work. It's just going to make everyone miserable.Corey: It feels like it's one of those difficult to sell problems as well, in that it requires some tooling changes, absolutely. It requires cultural change and buy-in and whatnot, but in order for that to happen, there has to be a painful problem that a company recognizes and is willing to pay to make go away. The problem with stuff like this is that once you pay, there's a lot of extra work that goes on top of it as well, that does not have a perception—rightly or wrongly—of contributing to feature velocity, of hitting the next milestone. It's, “Really? So, we're going to be spending how much money to make engineers happier? They should get paid an awful lot and they're still complaining and never seem happy. Why do I care if they're happy other than the pure mercenary perspective of otherwise they'll quit?” I'm not saying that it's not worth pursuing; it's not a worthy goal. I am saying that it becomes a very difficult thing to wind up selling as a product.Amy: Well, as a product for sure, right? Because—[sigh] gosh, I have friends in the space who work on these tools. And I want to be careful.Corey: Of course. Nothing but love for all of those people, let's be very clear.Amy: But a lot of them, you know, they're pulling metrics from existing monitoring systems, they are doing some interesting math on them, but what you get at the end is a nice service catalog and dashboard, which are things we've been trying to land as products in this industry for as long as I can remember, and—Corey: “We've got it this time, though. This time we'll crack the nut.” Yeah. Get off the island, Gilligan.Amy: And then the other, like, risky thing, right, is the other part that makes me uncomfortable about SLOs, and why I will often tell folks that I talk to out in the industry that are asking me about this, like, one-on-one, “Should I do it here?” And it's like, you can bring the tool in, and if you have a management team that's just looking to have metrics to drive productivity, instead of you know, trying to drive better knowledge work, what you get is just a fancier version of more Taylorism, right, which is basically scientific management, this idea that we can, like, drive workers to maximum efficiency by measuring random things about them and driving those numbers. It turns out, that doesn't really work very well, even in industrial scale, it just happened to work because, you know, we have a bloody enough society that we pushed people into it. But the reality is, if you implement SLOs badly, you get more really bad Taylorism that's bad for you developers. And my suspicion is that you will get worse availability out of it than you would if you just didn't do it at all.Corey: This episode is sponsored by our friends at Revelo. Revelo is the Spanish word of the day, and its spelled R-E-V-E-L-O. It means “I reveal.” Now, have you tried to hire an engineer lately? I assure you it is significantly harder than it sounds. One of the things that Revelo has recognized is something I've been talking about for a while, specifically that while talent is evenly distributed, opportunity is absolutely not. They're exposing a new talent pool to, basically, those of us without a presence in Latin America via their platform. It's the largest tech talent marketplace in Latin America with over a million engineers in their network, which includes—but isn't limited to—talent in Mexico, Costa Rica, Brazil, and Argentina. Now, not only do they wind up spreading all of their talent on English ability, as well as you know, their engineering skills, but they go significantly beyond that. Some of the folks on their platform are hands down the most talented engineers that I've ever spoken to. Let's also not forget that Latin America has high time zone overlap with what we have here in the United States, so you can hire full-time remote engineers who share most of the workday as your team. It's an end-to-end talent service, so you can find and hire engineers in Central and South America without having to worry about, frankly, the colossal pain of cross-border payroll and benefits and compliance because Revelo handles all of it. If you're hiring engineers, check out revelo.io/screaming to get 20% off your first three months. That's R-E-V-E-L-O dot I-O slash screaming.Corey: That is part of the problem is, in some cases, to drive some of these improvements, you have to go backwards to move forwards. And it's one of those, “Great, so we spent all this effort and money in the rest of now things are worse?” No, not necessarily, but suddenly are aware of things that were slipping through the cracks previously.Amy: Yeah. Yeah.Corey: Like, the most realistic thing about first The Phoenix Project and then The Unicorn Project, both by Gene Kim, has been the fact that companies have these problems and actively cared enough to change it. In my experience, that feels a little on the rare side.Amy: Yeah, and I think that's actually the key, right? It's for the culture change, and for, like, if you really looking to be, like, do I want to work at this company? Am I investing my myself in here? Is look at the leadership team and be, like, do these people actually give a crap? Are they looking just to punt another number down the road?That's the real question, right? Like, the technology and stuff, at the point where I'm at in my career, I just don't care that much anymore. [laugh]. Just… fine, use Kubernetes, use Postgres, [unintelligible 00:27:30], I don't care. I just don't. Like, Oracle, I might have to ask, you know, go to finance and be like, “Hey, can we spend 20 million for a database?” But like, nobody really asks for that anymore, so. [laugh].Corey: As one does. I will say that I mostly agree with you, but a technology that I found myself getting excited about, given the time of the recording on this is… fun, I spent a bit of time yesterday—from when we're recording this—teaching myself just enough Go to wind up being together a binary that I needed to do something actively ridiculous for my camera here. And I found myself coming away deeply impressed by a lot of things about it, how prescriptive it was for one, how self-contained for another. And after spending far too many years of my life writing shitty Perl, and shitty Bash, and worse Python, et cetera, et cetera, the prescriptiveness was great. The fact that it wound up giving me something I could just run, I could cross-compile for anything I need to run it on, and it just worked. It's been a while since I found a technology that got me this interested in exploring further.Amy: Go is great for that. You mentioned one of my two favorite features of Go. One is usually when a program compiles—at least the way I code in Go—it usually works. I've been working with Go since about 0.9, like, just a little bit before it was released as 1.0, and that's what I've noticed over the years of working with it is that most of the time, if you have a pretty good data structure design and you get the code to compile, usually it's going to work, unless you're doing weird stuff.The other thing I really love about Go and that maybe you'll discover over time is the malleability of it. And the reason why I think about that more than probably most folks is that I work on other people's code most of the time. And maybe this is something that you probably run into with your business, too, right, where you're working on other people's infrastructure. And the way that we encode business rules and things in the languages, in our programming language or our config syntax and stuff has a huge impact on folks like us and how quickly we can come into a situation, assess, figure out what's going on, figure out where things are laid out, and start making changes with confidence.Corey: Forget other people for a minute they're looking at what I built out three or four years ago here, myself, like, I look at past me, it's like, “What was that rat bastard thinking? This is awful.” And it's—forget other people's code; hell is your own code, on some level, too, once it's slipped out of the mental stack and you have to re-explore it and, “Oh, well thank God I defensively wound up not including any comments whatsoever explaining what the living hell this thing was.” It's terrible. But you're right, the other people's shell scripts are finicky and odd.I started poking around for help when I got stuck on something, by looking at GitHub, and a few bit of searching here and there. Even these large, complex, well-used projects started making sense to me in a way that I very rarely find. It's, “What the hell is that thing?” is my most common refrain when I'm looking at other people's code, and Go for whatever reason avoids that, I think because it is so prescriptive about formatting, about how things should be done, about the vision that it has. Maybe I'm romanticizing it and I'll hate it and a week from now, and I want to go back and remove this recording, but.Amy: The size of the language helps a lot.Corey: Yeah.Amy: But probably my favorite. It's more of a convention, which actually funny the way I'm going to talk about this because the two languages I work on the most right now are Ruby and Go. And I don't feel like two languages could really be more different.Syntax-wise, they share some things, but really, like, the mental models are so very, very different. Ruby is all the way in on object-oriented programming, and, like, the actual real kind of object-oriented with messaging and stuff, and, like, the whole language kind of springs from that. And it kind of requires you to understand all of these concepts very deeply to be effective in large programs. So, what I find is, when I approach Ruby codebase, I have to load all this crap into my head and remember, “Okay, so yeah, there's this convention, when you do this kind of thing in Ruby”—or especially Ruby on Rails is even worse because they go deep into convention over configuration. But what that's code for is, this code is accessible to people who have a lot of free cognitive capacity to load all this convention into their heads and keep it in their heads so that the code looks pretty, right?And so, that's the trade-off as you said, okay, my developers have to be these people with all these spare brain cycles to understand, like, why I would put the code here in this place versus this place? And all these, like, things that are in the code, like, very compact, dense concepts. And then you go to something like Go, which is, like, “Nah, we're not going to do Lambdas. Nah”—[laugh]—“We're not doing all this fancy stuff.” So, everything is there on the page.This drives some people crazy, right, is that there's all this boilerplate, boilerplate, boilerplate. But the reality is, I can read most Go files from top to the bottom and understand what the hell it's doing, whereas I can go sometimes look at, like, a Ruby thing, or sometimes Python and e—Perl is just [unintelligible 00:32:19] all the time, right, it's there's so much indirection. And it just be, like, “What the [BLEEP] is going on? This is so dense. I'm going to have to sit down and write it out in longhand so I can understand what the developer was even doing here.” And—Corey: Well, that's why I got the Mac Studio; for when I'm not doing A/V stuff with it, that means that I'll have one core that I can use for, you know, front-end processing and the rest, and the other 19 cores can be put to work failing to build Nokogiri in Ruby yet again.Amy: [laugh].Corey: I remember the travails of working with Ruby, and the problem—I have similar problems with Python, specifically in that—I don't know if I'm special like this—it feels like it's a SRE DevOps style of working, but I am grabbing random crap off a GitHub constantly and running it, like, small scripts other people have built. And let's be clear, I run them on my test AWS account that has nothing important because I'm not a fool that I read most of it before I run it, but I also—it wants a different version of Python every single time. It wants a whole bunch of other things, too. And okay, so I use ASDF as my version manager for these things, which for whatever reason, does not work for the way that I think about this ergonomically. Okay, great.And I wind up with detritus scattered throughout my system. It's, “Hey, can you make this reproducible on my machine?” “Almost certainly not, but thank you for asking.” It's like ‘Step 17: Master the Wolf' level of instructions.Amy: And I think Docker generally… papers over the worst of it, right, is when we built all this stuff in the aughts, you know, [CPAN 00:33:45]—Corey: Dev containers and VS Code are very nice.Amy: Yeah, yeah. You know, like, we had CPAN back in the day, I was doing chroots, I think in, like, '04 or '05, you know, to solve this problem, right, which is basically I just—screw it; I will compile an entire distro into a directory with a Perl and all of its dependencies so that I can isolate it from the other things I want to run on this machine and not screw up and not have these interactions. And I think that's kind of what you're talking about is, like, the old model, when we deployed servers, there was one of us sitting there and then we'd log into the server and be like, I'm going to install the Perl. You know, I'll compile it into, like, [/app/perl 558 00:34:21] whatever, and then I'll CPAN all this stuff in, and I'll give it over to the developer, tell them to set their shebang to that and everything just works. And now we're in a mode where it's like, okay, you got to set up a thousand of those. “Okay, well, I'll make a tarball.” [laugh]. But it's still like we had to just—Corey: DevOps, but [unintelligible 00:34:37] dev closer to ops. You're interrelating all the time. Yeah, then Docker comes along, and add dev is, like, “Well, here's the container. Good luck, asshole.” And it feels like it's been cast into your yard to worry about.Amy: Yeah, well, I mean, that's just kind of business, or just—Corey: Yeah. Yeah.Amy: I'm not sure if it's business or capitalism or something like that, but just the idea that, you know, if I can hand off the shitty work to some other poor schlub, why wouldn't I? I mean, that's most folks, right? Like, just be like, “Well”—Corey: Which is fair.Amy: —“I got it working. Like, my part is done, I did what I was supposed to do.” And now there's a lot of folks out there, that's how they work, right? “I hit done. I'm done. I shipped it. Sure. It's an old [unintelligible 00:35:16] Ubuntu. Sure, there's a bunch of shell scripts that rip through things. Sure”—you know, like, I've worked on repos where there's hundreds of things that need to be addressed.Corey: And passing to someone else is fine. I'm thrilled to do it. Where I run into problems with it is where people assume that well, my part was the hard part and anything you schlubs do is easy. I don't—Amy: Well, that's the underclass. Yeah. That's—Corey: Forget engineering for a second; I throw things to the people over in the finance group here at The Duckbill Group because those people are wizards at solving for this thing. And it's—Amy: Well, that's how we want to do things.Corey: Yeah, specialization works.Amy: But we have this—it's probably more cultural. I don't want to pick, like, capitalism to beat on because this is really, like, human cultural thing, and it's not even really particularly Western. Is the idea that, like, “If I have an underclass, why would I give a shit what their experience is?” And this is why I say, like, ops teams, like, get out of here because most ops teams, the extant ops teams are still called ops, and a lot of them have been renamed SRE—but they still do the same job—are an underclass. And I don't mean that those people are below us. People are treated as an underclass, and they shouldn't be. Absolutely not.Corey: Yes.Amy: Because the idea is that, like, well, I'm a fancy person who writes code at my ivory tower, and then it all flows down, and those people, just faceless people, do the deployment stuff that's beneath me. That attitude is the most toxic thing, I think, in tech orgs to address. Like, if you're trying to be like, “Well, our liability is bad, we have security problems, people won't fix their code.” And go look around and you will find people that are treated as an underclass that are given codes thrown over the wall at them and then they just have to toil through and make it work. I've worked on that a number of times in my career.And I think just like saying, underclass, right, or caste system, is what I found is the most effective way to get people actually thinking about what the hell is going on here. Because most people are just, like, “Well, that's just the way things are. It's just how we've always done it. The developers write to code, then give it to the sysadmins. The sysadmins deploy the code. Isn't that how it always works?”Corey: You'd really like to hope, wouldn't you?Amy: [laugh]. Not me. [laugh].Corey: Again, the way I see it is, in theory—in theory—sysadmins, ops, or that should not exist. People should theoretically be able to write code as developers that just works, the end. And write it correct the first time and never have to change it again. Yeah. There's a reason that I always like to call staging environments in places I work ‘theory' because it works in theory, but not in production, and that is fundamentally the—like, that entire job role is the difference between theory and practice.Amy: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's the problem with it. We're already so disconnected from the physical world, right? Like, you and I right now are talking over multiple strands of glass and digital transcodings and things right now, right? Like, we are detached from the physical reality.You mentioned earlier working in data centers, right? The thing I miss about it is, like, the physicality of it. Like, actually, like, I held a server in my arms and put it in the rack and slid it into the rails. I plugged into power myself; I pushed the power button myself. There's a server there. I physically touched it.Developers who don't work in production, we talked about empathy and stuff, but really, I think the big problem is when they work out in their idea space and just writing code, they write the unit tests, if we're very lucky, they'll write a functional test, and then they hand that wad off to some poor ops group. They're detached from the reality of operations. It's not even about accountability; it's about experience. The ability to see all of the weird crap we deal with, right? You know, like, “Well, we pushed the code to that server, but there were three bit flips, so we had to do it again. And then the other server, the disk failed. And on the other server…” You know? [laugh].It's just, there's all this weird crap that happens, these systems are so complex that they're always doing something weird. And if you're a developer that just spends all day in your IDE, you don't get to see that. And I can't really be mad at those folks, as individuals, for not understanding our world. I figure out how to help them, and the best thing we've come up with so far is, like, well, we start giving this—some responsibility in a production environment so that they can learn that. People do that, again, is another one that can be done wrong, where it turns into kind of a forced empathy.I actually really hate that mode, where it's like, “We're forcing all the developers online whether they like it or not. On-call whether they like it or not because they have to learn this.” And it's like, you know, maybe slow your roll a little buddy because the stuff is actually hard to learn. Again, minimizing how hard ops work is. “Oh, we'll just put the developers on it. They'll figure it out, right? They're software engineers. They're probably smarter than you sysadmins.” Is the unstated thing when we do that, right? When we throw them in the pit and be like, “Yeah, they'll get it.” [laugh].Corey: And that was my problem [unintelligible 00:39:49] the interview stuff. It was in the write code on a whiteboard. It's, “Look, I understood how the system fundamentally worked under the hood.” Being able to power my way through to get to an outcome even in language I don't know, was sort of part and parcel of the job. But this idea of doing it in artificially constrained environment, in a language I'm not super familiar with, off the top of my head, it took me years to get to a point of being able to do it with a Bash script because who ever starts with an empty editor and starts getting to work in a lot of these scenarios? Especially in an ops role where we're not building something from scratch.Amy: That's the interesting thing, right? In the majority of tech work today—maybe 20 years ago, we did it more because we were literally building the internet we have today. But today, most of the engineers out there working—most of us working stiffs—are working on stuff that already exists. We're making small incremental changes, which is great that's what we're doing. And we're dealing with old code.Corey: We're gluing APIs together, and that's fine. Ugh. I really want to thank you for taking so much time to talk to me about how you see all these things. If people want to learn more about what you're up to, where's the best place to find you?Amy: I'm on Twitter every once in a while as @MissAmyTobey, M-I-S-S-A-M-Y-T-O-B-E-Y. I have a blog I don't write on enough. And there's a couple things on the Equinix Metal blog that I've written, so if you're looking for that. Otherwise, mainly Twitter.Corey: And those links will of course be in the [show notes 00:41:08]. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.Amy: I had fun. Thank you.Corey: As did I. Amy Tobey, Senior Principal Engineer at Equinix. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, or on the YouTubes, smash the like and subscribe buttons, as the kids say. Whereas if you've hated this episode, same thing, five-star review all the platforms, smash the buttons, but also include an angry comment telling me that you're about to wind up subpoenaing a copy of my shell script because you're convinced that your intellectual property and secrets are buried within.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.