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Brent Peterson sits down with Michelle Donnelly, Chief Revenue Officer at Crescendo, to explore how AI-native customer experience solutions are transforming the way brands interact with their customers. The conversation covers everything from autonomous digital agents to the critical role humans still play in customer support. Michelle brings a wealth of experience from her time at Salesforce and the AI chip industry, and she shares fascinating real-world examples of how Crescendo's approach is turning traditional cost centers into profit centers. If you care about customer experience, this episode deserves your full attention.Key TakeawaysAI agents must work seamlessly with human agents. A digital-only approach without a human fallback creates frustrating loops that drive customers away.Customer support is becoming a revenue channel. By combining personalization, memory, and business context, AI agents can turn a simple support interaction into an upsell opportunity.Speed to value matters. Crescendo deploys in under four weeks, a dramatic improvement over traditional SaaS implementations that can take months.Outcome-based pricing changes the game. Rather than selling seats, Crescendo charges based on outcomes, aligning their success with the customer's success.Multimodal interactions let customers choose. Whether through chat, voice, WhatsApp, or email, the customer decides how they want to engage, and the AI adapts accordingly.Quality assurance reveals powerful patterns. Analyzing interactions across the customer base surfaces product issues and opportunities that brands would otherwise miss.Knowledge bases improve over time. The AI learns from every interaction and actually enhances the brand's existing knowledge base rather than relying on static content.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Crescendo and Michelle's Journey03:53 The Role of AI in Customer Experience09:30 Seamless Integration of Digital and Human Agents15:02 Multimodal Customer Interactions18:52 Quality Assurance and Content Relevance22:26 Transforming Customer Support into Profit Centers28:22 Democratizing AI for All BusinessesConnect with Michelle on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelledonnelly/https://www.linkedin.com/company/crescendocx/

Links For The Occult Rejectshttps://linktr.ee/theoccultrejectsOccult Research Institutehttps://www.occultresearchinstitute.org/Substackhttps://substack.com/@theoccultrejects?r=7auau0&utm_campaign=profile&utm_medium=profile-pageCash Apphttps://cash.app/$theoccultrejectsVenmo@TheOccultRejectsBuy Me A Coffeebuymeacoffee.com/TheOccultRejectsPatreonhttps://www.patreon.com/TheOccultRejectsPart 1 focuses on the drum as an ancient technology of altered consciousness. The argument is not that every beat causes trance, or that neuroscience has proven spirits. The stronger argument is that rhythm enters the human organism through hearing, motor prediction, breath, movement, attention, emotion, expectation, culture, and social synchrony. The drum becomes powerful when sound, body, group, ritual frame, and meaning converge. These sources support the archaeology, neuroscience, EEG research, shamanic studies, possession studies, Indigenous and culturally specific drum traditions, ritual theory, placebo and meaning-response research, ceremonial magic, and modern witchcraft material used in the episode.Core Academic and Scientific SourcesHuels, Emma R., Hyoungkyu Kim, UnCheol Lee, Tirsa Bel-Bahar, Ana V. Colmenero, Alexandra Nelson, Stefanie Blain-Moraes, George A. Mashour, and Richard E. Harris. “Neural Correlates of the Shamanic State of Consciousness.” Frontiers in Human Neuroscience 15 (2021): 610466.Gordon, Yoel, Golan Karvat, Noa Dagan, and Ayelet N. Landau. “Neural Tracking at Theta Predicts Drumming-Induced Altered States of Consciousness.” Scientific Reports 16, no. 1 (2026): Article 10204.Aparicio-Terrés, R., et al. “The Neurobiology of Altered States of Consciousness Induced by Drumming and Other Rhythmic Sound Patterns.” Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, 2025.Neher, Andrew. “Auditory Driving Observed with Scalp Electrodes in Normal Subjects.” Electroencephalography and Clinical Neurophysiology 13 (1961): 449–451.Neher, Andrew. “A Physiological Explanation of Unusual Behavior in Ceremonies Involving Drums.” Human Biology 34, no. 2 (1962): 151–160.Maurer, R., V. K. Kumar, L. Woodside, and R. J. Pekala. “Phenomenological Experience in Response to Monotonous Drumming and Hypnotizability.” American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis 40, no. 2 (1997): 130–145. Use for monotonous drumming, subjective altered experience, imagery, absorption, and hypnotizability.Maxfield, Melinda C. “Effects of Rhythmic Drumming on EEG and Subjective Experience.” PhD diss., Institute of Transpersonal Psychology, 1990. Use as older supporting context on drumming, EEG, imagery, body-image changes, and subjective altered experience. Do not make this the main scientific proof; use it as background.Nozaradan, Sylvie, Isabelle Peretz, and André Mouraux. “Tagging the Neuronal Entrainment to Beat and Meter.” The Journal of Neuroscience 31, no. 28 (2011): 10234–10240. Use for EEG evidence that the brain can track beat and meter. This supports the claim that the brain does not merely hear rhythm as background sound; it can represent rhythmic structure in measurable ways.Nozaradan, Sylvie. “Exploring How Musical Rhythm Entrains Brain Activity with Electroencephalogram Frequency-Tagging.” Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B 369, no. 1658 (2014). Use as broader rhythm/EEG entrainment support. This helps explain frequency-tagging, beat tracking, meter, neural entrainment, and the measurable relationship between rhythmic structure and brain activity.Thaut, Michael H., Gerald C. McIntosh, and Volker Hoemberg. “Neurobiological Foundations of Neurologic Music Therapy: Rhythmic Entrainment and the Motor System.” Frontiers in Psychology 5 (2015). Use for rhythm as motor-system timing information. This supports the claim that a beat can become bodily instruction, not just sound for the ear. Especially useful when discussing rhythmic auditory stimulation, motor planning, gait, entrainment, and the auditory-motor bridge.Ross, Jessica M., John R. Iversen, and Ramesh Balasubramaniam. “Time Perception for Musical Rhythms: Sensorimotor Perspectives on Entrainment, Simulation, and Prediction.” 2022. Use for rhythm, timing, prediction, sensorimotor entrainment, and the way musical rhythm interacts with time perception.Hove, Michael J., and Jane L. Risen. “It's All in the Timing: Interpersonal Synchrony Increases Affiliation.” Social Cognition 27, no. 6 (2009): 949–960. Use for synchrony and social bonding. This helps support the group-body argument: moving or acting in time with others can increase affiliation.Wiltermuth, Scott S., and Chip Heath. “Synchrony and Cooperation.” Psychological Science 20, no. 1 (2009): 1–5. Use for the claim that synchronized movement can increase cooperation and attachment among participants.Tarr, Bronwyn, Jacques Launay, and Robin I. M. Dunbar. “Music and Social Bonding: ‘Self-Other' Merging and Neurohormonal Mechanisms.” Frontiers in Psychology 5 (2014): 1096. Use for music, synchrony, bonding, endorphin/social mechanisms, and why group rhythm can feel like more than private listening.Fancourt, Daisy, Rosie Perkins, Sara Ascenso, Louise Atkins, Fatima Kilfeather, and Aaron Williamon. “Effects of Group Drumming Interventions on Anxiety, Depression, Social Resilience and Inflammatory Immune Response among Mental Health Service Users.” PLOS ONE 11, no. 3 (2016): e0151136. Use for modern group-drumming research showing psychological and physiological effects, including anxiety, depression, social resilience, wellbeing, and inflammatory immune response. Use carefully: this does not make group drumming a cure-all. It supports the more grounded claim that embodied rhythm and group participation can affect mood, social connection, and body chemistry.Bittman, Barry B., et al. “Composite Effects of Group Drumming Music Therapy on Modulation of Neuroendocrine-Immune Parameters in Normal Subjects.” Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine 7, no. 1 (2001): 38–47. Use as older supporting material on group drumming and neuroendocrine-immune measures. Keep secondary. Fancourt is cleaner for the main script body.Archaeology and Deep History of DrumsLawergren, Bo. “Neolithic Drums in China.” In Music Archaeology in China. 2006. Use for clay drums in Neolithic China and the deep-history claim that drums are not just poetic symbols of antiquity. They appear in the archaeological record as instruments tied to early sound-making, ceremony, and social order.Both, Arnd Adje. “Music Archaeology: Some Methodological and Theoretical Considerations.” Use as general support for why ancient instruments should be treated as ritual and social evidence, not merely decorative objects.Anthropology, Ethnomusicology, Ritual, and TranceRouget, Gilbert. Music and Trance: A Theory of the Relations Between Music and Possession. Translated by Brunhilde Biebuyck. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1985. Essential source. Use for the caution that music does not mechanically or universally cause trance. Rouget helps keep the argument academically serious by emphasizing culture, ritual frame, meaning, and expectation.Becker, Judith. Deep Listeners: Music, Emotion, and Trancing. Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 2004. Use for music-linked trancing, emotional absorption, religious experience, and culturally trained ways of listening. This supports the “hearing versus entering” distinction.McNeill, William H. Keeping Together in Time: Dance and Drill in Human History. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1995. Use for marching, dance, drill, muscular bonding, synchronized movement, and rhythm as social glue. This is useful both for Part 1's group-body material and Part 2's war-drum material.Eliade, Mircea. Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1964. Use carefully. Eliade's phrase “archaic techniques of ecstasy” is powerful, but the episode should also note that later scholarship criticizes his tendency to universalize shamanism.Winkelman, Michael. Shamanism: A Biopsychosocial Paradigm of Consciousness and Healing. 2nd ed. Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger, 2010. Use for shamanism as a ritual technology involving altered consciousness, healing, social integration, symbolism, and body-brain processes.Winkelman, Michael. “Shamanism and Psychedelics: A Biogenetic Structuralist Paradigm of Ecopsychology.” European Journal of Ecopsychology 4 (2013): 90–115. Use as supplemental background on shamanism, altered consciousness, and comparative models of trance and visionary states.Kontouli, Athanasia, Michael J. Hove, Alexandre Lehmann, Peter Vuust, and Peter E. Keller. “The Rhythms of Trance: Cultural Phenomenology and Neural Mechanisms of Music-Induced Lewis-Williams, David. The Mind in the Cave: Consciousness and the Origins of Art. London: Thames & Hudson, 2002. Use cautiously for altered states, entoptic imagery, ritual vision, and the relationship between neuropsychology and symbolic culture.Non-Ordinary States of Consciousness.” Neuroscience & Biobehavioral Reviews, 2026. Use for the bridge between cultural phenomenology and neuroscience. This supports the point that music-induced trance is not only acoustics; it involves body, training, expectation, culture, environment, and interpretation.Tart, Charles T., ed. Altered States of Consciousness. New York: Wiley, 1969. Use as classic altered-state background.Hultkrantz, Åke. “The Drum in Shamanism.” Use for classic comparative material on the shamanic drum, especially Arctic, SiberiAlso want to remind people about the website, if you're into reading we have tons of information by multiple contributors, and we got t-shirts up on the site if you're interested. Fun fact, the art is all based on the eyeball. A

On this week's Totally Extra: We're giving Zissbags a little bit more time to recover from the ailment of the yeaaaaaar, but never fear, we'd never leave our Lufannians high and dry. Here's some more of our favourite totally extra, totally and completely Luanna moments. And we will be back with you on Monday! It's time to get TOTALLY EXTRA. Extra chat, extra rants, extra bants, extra stories, nonsense and more.LuAnna: The Podcast is a Global production, available every Monday and Thursday on Global Player, YouTube or wherever you get your shows. Make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode.Remember, if you want to get in touch you can:Email us at luanna@everythingluanna.com OR drop us a WhatsApp on our NEW NUMBER: 07521564640Please review Global's Privacy Policy: https://global.com/legal/privacy-policy/

Send us Fan MailAre you tired of typical lying politicians who offer nothing but empty campaign promises? Meet Phillip Parrish—a farmer, successful businessman, former U.S. Navy Intelligence officer, and devoted Christian who is running for Lieutenant Governor of Minnesota alongside Mike Lindell. This is an unfiltered, deeply honest look at the man who intends to help clean up the state's infrastructure and restore integrity to the Midwest. In the first half of this special interview, Phillip shares his encouraging personal journey of faith, processing life tragedies through writing, and surviving intense moral and ethical pressure while serving under the Obama administration. In the second half, the conversation transitions completely into the operational future of Minnesota. Phillip pulls back the curtain on "The 30-Year Heist," exposing the systemic grifting networks and massive institutional fraud occurring under Tim Walz, Amy Klobuchar, Keith Ellison, and Ilhan Omar. Listen to this vital message of hope to discover how you can step up, secure your family's future, and actively participate in saving Minnesota. Key Timestamps & Moments of GoldWho is Phillip Parrish?00:00:00 - Introduction to special guest Phillip Parrish 00:00:54 - Growing up on a Minnesota farm and early teaching career 00:01:20 - Joining the U.S. Navy Reserve and sudden post-9/11 deployment 00:02:44 - Baling old-school square hay in the middle of a campaign trail 00:03:35 - The Slogan of the Pod: Listen, Do, Repeat for Life 00:04:09 - Taking on the Spirit of Adoption: Finding a foundation in Romans 8 00:05:51 - Growing up poor and the daily grind of unusual persistence 00:09:29 - Overcoming personal abuse and the vital realization of codependency 00:10:09 - The critical importance of establishing rigid, healthy boundaries 00:13:01 - Countering unbiblical church teachings on blind forgiveness 00:14:58 - Reclaiming personal value and emotional independence 00:18:29 - Navigating free will: The ultimate difference in true biblical faith 00:21:14 - Defying the odds: From a reading-challenged student to an Intelligence Officer 00:23:34 - Standing firm on American exceptionalism and our Christian foundations 00:24:19 - Surviving the intense moral and ethical shifts of the Obama administration 00:26:59 - The watch floor reality: Witnessing the truth of Benghazi and Crimea 00:29:58 - Uncovering gain-of-function semantics and illegal bioweapons funneling 00:35:19 - Behavior Substitution: How writing, journaling, and repetitive prayer keeps you centered What does Phillip Parrish plan to do as Lieutenant Governor of Minnesota?00:40:23 - The Lindell-Parrish parallel mission: Merging election integrity with anti-fraud infrastructure 00:42:43 - Exposing The 30-Year Heist: How legislators built a multi-trillion dollar grifting pipeline 00:43:58 - The hidden truth about Minnesota's 400 weaponized NGOs 00:45:03 - Pulling apart the systemic autism, daycare, housing, and Medicaid fraud networks under Tim Walz 00:46:01 - The calculated destruction of Midwestern culture and weaponized immigration 00:48:22 - Exposing human trafficking agendas cloaked in false humanitarian narratives 00:50:17 - Dismantling administrative corruption: Tearing down fake companies and clawing back taxpayer cash 00:51:35 - Restoring the Minnesota state flag and the pushback against cultural erasure 00:52:30 - The ultimate administrative policy: Standing firm that two plus two equals four 00:54:02 - The economic fallout: Why liberal corporations like Target are fleeing the state 00:55:54 - How to get involved: The County Ambassador program and the crucial August 11th Primary For the full interview, and all links and content please visit: https://davidpasqualone.com/content-type-media/podcasts/the-remarkable-people-podcast/phillip-parrish/Support the showTHE NOT-SO-FINE-PRINT DISCLAIMER: While we are very thankful for all of our guests, please understand that we do not necessarily share or endorse the same beliefs, worldviews, or positions that they may hold. We respectfully agree to disagree in some areas, and thank God for the blessing and privilege of free will.For more Remarkable Episodes, Inspiration, and Motivation, please visit https://davidpasqualone.com/remarkable-people-podcast/ now!

Gianluca, a talented tattoo artist from Italy, shares a profound philosophy about the journey of tattooing that emphasizes the importance of continuous growth and exploration. He believes that artists should never feel they have fully reached their peak; instead, they should always strive to improve and innovate. This mindset is crucial in an ever-evolving art form like tattooing, where trends and techniques are constantly changing.   In this episode of Chats and Tatts, host Aaron Della Vedova connects with Gianluca at the Mondial du Tatouage in Paris. With over 420 artists in attendance, Gianluca stands out for his stunning neo-Japanese and illustrative tattoo work, combining vibrant colors with black and gray elements. Aaron and Gianluca discuss his roots in northeastern Italy near Torino, where he continues to work in his hometown. Listeners can expect insights into Gianluca's artistic process and the vibrant tattoo culture at one of the world's premier tattoo conventions. Tune in for a deep dive into the world of high-quality tattoo artistry!   Chat Highlights:   04:10 First tattoo experience. 05:30 Self-taught tattooing experiences. 11:34 Tattooing as a personal journey. 17:10 Japanese tattooing and innovation. 18:55 Merging tattoo styles creatively. 25:14 Numbing cream for tattoo pain. 29:46 Tattoo machine efficiency debate. 34:06 Tattoo industry changes and challenges. 40:46 Tattoo artist advice. 42:00 Biomechanical Japanese Tattoo.   Quotes:   "I like art and every kind linked to art from when I was a child."   "If you're going to take the time to mark somebody's body, you should probably have done it to yourself first."   "I think the memory's already there. I want something new. Fuck it. Who cares?"   "It's not only the session. It's the journey."   "Maybe my goal is never have a goal."   "If you really want to take your art to the very, very top of the pyramid, you might want to avoid that as long as possible because it does slow you down."   "To see these AI generators that are creating things that are quite interesting to look at, it really hurt my heart a lot because I felt like what I am was taken from me."   "You only have to be yourself and do it in the best way you can."   Stay Connected:   Chats & Tatts: Website: http://www.chatsandtatts.com⁠ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@chatsandtatts  IG: http://www.instagram.com/chatsandtatts Chats & Tatts YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/chatsandtatts   Connect with Aaron:⁠   Aaron IG:⁠ http://www.instagram.com/aarondellavedova⁠ Guru Tattoo: http://www.Gurutattoo.com   Connect with Gianluca IG: https://www.instagram.com/gdc_tattoo  

Tim delivers a passionate message focused on John 13:34–35. He begins by introducing the biblical context of the passage, noting that it takes place within the "Upper Room Discourse," where Jesus delivers His farewell address to His closest followers right before finishing His earthly ministry in Jerusalem. Within this critical final charge, Jesus issues what He calls a "new command": “Love one another as I have loved you so you must love one another.” Tim explains that the command to love is not historically "new" to the disciples, as they were deeply familiar with the Old Testament laws to love God and love their neighbors. What makes it revolutionary is the person giving the command—Jesus—and the fact that He places Himself at the very center as the ultimate definition and source of this love. Tim emphasizes that a person cannot truly understand or define biblical love unless they intimately know Jesus, warning against letting the secular world dictate the definition of love. To show how biblical love departs from the world's transactional version, Tim unpacks the profound terminology used across Scripture. In the Old Testament, the primary word is hesed—a complex, multi-dimensional concept combining loyalty, kindness, promise-keeping, and mercy. It represents a covenant commitment where God consistently leans His blessing toward humanity despite their unfaithfulness. In the New Testament, the Greek word is agape, which refers to a sacrificial, deliberate laying down of one's own conveniences for the sake of others. Merging these concepts, Tim defines biblical love as a holy, self-giving commitment that expresses itself in tangible actions to benefit others, remaining entirely independent of feelings or the recipient's behavior. The challenge of this command becomes evident when looking at the intense diversity of the disciples Jesus gathered. The group included competing brothers, rough fishermen, a corrupt tax collector, a politically radical zealot, and women delivered from evil spirits. Tim notes that the modern church mirrors this exact same messy, diverse family dynamic. Believers are called to love people from vastly different backgrounds, including those whose political or social views might normally frustrate them, and even those who become outright enemies. Ultimately, Tim declares that this supernatural, unconditional love is intended to be the primary distinguishing mark of a Christian. While human nature relies on transactional relationships—cutting people off when they are no longer beneficial—spirit-filled love sticks with people sacrificially, which acts as the ultimate verification to the world that someone truly belongs to Christ. Grounding the congregation in the reassuring truth that God's anchor-like love never changes based on our performance, he challenges believers to look at the sacrifice of Christ and be daily compelled to extend that same sacrificial grace to the difficult people in their own lives. Discussion Questions for Practical Application Defining Love on God's Terms: Tim explicitly noted that we cannot let the world define love for us, defining biblical love instead as a commitment expressed in tangible actions independent of feelings. In what ways does the world's definition of love (e.g., based on emotional connection, compatibility, or transaction) creep into your own relationships? How can you consciously shift your mindset to view love as a deliberate agape commitment this week? Loving the "Diverse Disciples" in Your Circle: The original disciples included people with massive political and social divides, much like the modern church family. Think of someone in your immediate faith community, workplace, or family whose behavior, opinions, or background genuinely test your patience. Based on Jesus' command, what is one practical, tangible action you can take to show them biblical love, regardless of how you feel? The Trap of Transactional Relationships: Tim observed that it is natural human behavior to cut people off the moment they stop benefiting us or making us happy. Is there a relationship in your life right now that you have emotionally "cut off" or distanced yourself from because it became inconvenient or difficult? How does remembering Christ's unwavering hesed toward you alter your perspective on that person? Living as a Visible Replica: According to John 13:35, supernatural love is supposed to be our defining mark that proves to the world we are disciples. If an outside observer looked strictly at how you treat a difficult spouse, a tough neighbor, or a demanding boss, would they see a distinct reflection of Jesus? What is one specific area where you need to pray for the Holy Spirit to implant the power to love sacrificially?

Episode # 305 Pool Nation Podcast - What does it take to build a pool service company that lasts for decades, retains top talent, and serves more than 1,000 pools? In this episode of the Pool Nation Podcast, Edgar De Jesus, John "JJ Flawless," and Zac "The Pool Boy" Nicholas sit down with Nick LaPointe and Ray De Rosa of Golden State Pools to discuss two very different journeys that led to one of Southern California's most respected pool service companies. From the days of gas chlorine service and hand-written route books to modern operations, service management, technician training, inventory systems, and company leadership, this conversation dives deep into what it really takes to build a sustainable pool business. Nick shares the story of growing up in the family business, while Ray discusses building his own company before merging with Golden State Pools. Together they reveal the systems, leadership philosophies, employee development programs, and business lessons that have fueled their success. Most importantly, they share two lessons every pool professional needs to hear: set boundaries and know your value. Whether you're a solo operator, building your first route, managing technicians, or scaling toward your own pool empire, this episode is packed with practical insights and real-world experience from pool pros who have lived it. Timestamps 00:00 Welcome to the Pool Nation Podcast 01:00 Meet Nick LaPointe and Ray DeRosa of Golden State Pools 06:00 Steak dinner bets, pool industry friendships, and Western Show stories 17:00 Nick's family history in the pool industry 23:00 The early days of gas chlorine pool service 28:00 How 9/11 changed pool sanitation operations forever 31:00 Transitioning from gas chlorine to liquid chlorine systems 34:00 Growing up in the family business and earning a business degree 40:00 How Ray got started in pools and launched his own company 42:00 Merging two companies into Golden State Pools 46:00 From DOS systems and paper invoices to modern software 49:00 Building company culture and leadership partnerships 57:00 Why training matters and Golden State's 8-week technician training program 1:05:00 Employee development, career paths, and retention strategies 1:17:00 Managing repairs, service teams, and operational structure 1:24:00 Inventory management, purchasing power, and warehouse operations 1:33:00 The importance of boundaries as a business owner 1:37:00 Knowing your value and pricing with confidence 1:41:00 Final advice for pool professionals and closing thoughts Thank You To Our Sponsors A huge thank you to our Pool Nation partners and sponsors who continue supporting pool professionals across the industry: The SPPA BluRay XL AquaStar Pool Products Natural Chemistry Raypak Heritage Pool Supply Group Hayward Pool Products Poolside Tech Pool Brain Nidec / US Motors OnCore Filtration Your support helps us continue educating, elevating, and empowering pool professionals everywhere.

Send us Fan MailDr. Rose Erin Vaughan is a prominent and multi-disciplined expert in the fields of acupuncture, yoga, and meridian therapy. With a robust background in Ashtanga and Dharma yoga, massage therapy, and acupuncture, Dr. Vaughan has masterfully integrated her deep knowledge of anatomy and energy channels into her practice and teachings. She is particularly renowned for her work in merging the practices of yoga and acupuncture, resulting in a unique therapeutic discipline focused on Yin yoga teacher trainings and advanced acupressure techniques. Dr. Vaughan is also a celebrated author of several books, including “Science of Self” and her detailed guides on energy lines and meridians.Visit Dr. Rose Erin: https://www.scienceofselfytt.com/Key Takeaways:Dr. Vaughan's development of the Meridian Yoga technique integrates acupuncture and yoga for a holistic therapeutic approach.The importance of experiential learning in understanding and feeling energy channels like meridians and chakras is emphasized throughout Dr. Vaughan's teachings.Acupuncture and yoga practices should focus on seeking root causes of physical imbalance rather than merely addressing pain.Incorporating ancient practices, such as those from the "Hatha Yoga Pradipika," into modern yoga sequences enhances meditative and energetic experiences.Regular mantra practice, like the Gayatri Mantra, can refine the practitioner's focus and intention, grounding their yoga and meditation sessions.Check out:

In this episode of Mind Your Fitness, Shira takes the lead as her and Enjie discuss various eye opening topics. Enjie shares her experiences surrounding challenges while serving in the military, learning to find the right balance between performance and wellbeing, the journey of transitioning out of active duty, finding a new mindset around movement, and so much more.  Enjely "Enjie" Mora is the owner and founder of Enriched Mind Nutrition Services. As a Registered Dietitian (RD) and Certified Sports Nutritionist, she brings her unique experience of serving in the United States Marine Corps while learning to balance fueling her body for optimal performance and a healthy relationship with food in challenging circumstances. This journey led her to build a strong connection between food, body, and exercise, and help others navigate their own paths to enhanced performance and well-being.

Jess Bogener is a traditional bowhunter with a passion for building traditional bow hunting bows under the brand of Bogener Bows. He is also a USA Archery Level 2 Instructor. He has taught over 250 archers in Santa Clarita and the Frazier Mountains. He's a State and Local USA Archery Competitor/Champion in the Mens Longbow wood division.Please enjoy this episode of Project Quiver on Salish Wolf with Jess Bogener.          Episode Links: https://www.instagram.com/bogener_bowbuilder/https://www.bogenerbows.com/Project Quiver at Anchor Point ExpeditionsSummary:Join us for an in-depth conversation with Jess Bogener, a passionate bowmaker and archer, as he shares his journey from amateur hobbyist to professional craftsman. Discover the artistry, techniques, and philosophy behind his handcrafted bows, as well as insights into archery tournaments, hunting, and the therapeutic benefits of the craft.Show Notes:Jess's fascinating family history and the meaning behind his name, which hints at a lineage of bow buildersThe story of how he fell in love with archery and bow buildingHis journey from learning under a master bowyer to creating his own signature reflex-de-flex design, inspired by Byron FergusonThe materials Jess prefers for bowsHis approach to sourcing wood stave stavesThe process behind making both primitive self bows and laminated longbowsThe business model: balancing craftsmanship, passion, and affordability to fund his bow-making pursuitsHis deep engagement with archery tournamentsThe therapeutic and personal growth benefits Jess experiences from both bow making and archery practiceInsights on Shooting ambidextrously, maintaining physical health, and preventing injuries from pulling heavy bowsHis plans for future bows and sharing knowledge with others through workshopsThe intersection of hunting, family heritage, and the role of patience, reflection, and perseveranceChapters:00:00 - Introduction and Jess's family background 02:37 - Jess's initial interest in archery and bow building 06:16 - Understanding archery tournaments and scoring systems 07:36 - Jess's competition bows: design and materials 08:45 - Making primitive and laminated bows, tools, and techniques 09:53 - Modern vs traditional materials and future projects 12:39 - Business mindset and pricing of custom bows 13:33 - Merging artistry with function and customer experience 15:05 - Family influence and other craft passions like bonsai 19:36 - Building a business around quality and passion 21:05 - Signature styles, bow models, and design influences 22:26 - Plans for self bows and regional sourcing challenges 23:08 - Teaching and sharing bow-making skills 24:06 - Differences in making laminate vs primitive bows 25:15 - Use of natural materials and experimentation 26:23 - Jess's archery milestones and his wife's achievements 30:18 - Carving and making traditional English longbows 31:19 - Favorite woods and layering techniques 34:14 - Shop setup and tools used for bow making 35:29 - Laminating process: modern tools and techniques 36:20 - Pre-tilling, glue-up, and finishing steps 38:24 - Bow durability, delamination, and quality control 39:15 - Achieving specific draw weights through precise calculation 41:37 - The art and science of bow shaping and tillering 42:49 - Lessons learned from bow making applicable to other life areas 48:26 - The therapeutic nature of archery and hunting 50:37 - Reflecting on successful seasons and lessons from misses 52:27 - Daily archery practice and hunting routines 54:23 - Using game parts for craft and self-sufficiency 55:16 - Ambidextrous shooting and physical adaptations 58:57 - Jess's shooting philosophy and training approach 62:43 - Comparing traditional English longbow style with Olympic technique 67:19 - Maintaining balance, preventing injury, and managing heavy draw weight 70:00 - Future projects, exploring ancestral roots, and community connections

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In this segment Jimmy and Americans' Comedian Kurt Metzger argue that a proposed NDAA provision known as Section 224 would be a pipe dream for Bibi Netanyahu by significantly undermining U.S. independence, fusing the US military with the IDF, and effectively integrating the two countries' military and technology sectors while compelling American taxpayers to fund Israel's wars.  Jimmy highlights opposition from Ro Khanna and other lawmakers, who contend that the measure would expand military ties with Israel despite concerns over the Gaza war, human rights issues, and public opposition to additional aid. Supporters of the provision, including Congressmen Pat Fallon and Don Davis, argue that it is intended to improve defense technology collaboration, cybersecurity, and military readiness rather than merge the two militaries.  The discussion also focuses on lobbying influence, congressional debate over U.S.-Israel relations, and the broader political implications of expanding bilateral defense cooperation. Plus segments on UFC champion Sean Strickland's ban from the White House, Candace Owens' exposé of the Macron's phony lawsuit against her and the House's recent rebuke of President Trump over the Iran war. Also featuring Stef Zamorano and Mike MacRae. And a phone call from Arnold Schwartzenegger!

Astral Projection, Out-of-Body Experiences & Interdimensional Beings | Ryan CropperAstral projection expert Ryan Cropper joins us for one of the most mind-bending conversations we've ever had. We go deep on OBEs, interdimensional beings, time travel, psychedelics vs. astral travel, alien encounters, ascended masters — and what it truly means to evolve consciousness in a world drowning in noise.Ryan shares his encounter with Jesus in the astral, being interrogated by the Galactic Federation of Light, living four days in his own past through time travel, and how to trigger a full psychedelic experience without any substance.This is consciousness exploration at its deepest.

After a mini break we're back and tired as hell.In Episode #521 of 'Meanderings', Juan & I discuss: being very busy versus truly tired, how priorities shift as life gets more complex and why sometimes the smartest move is pruning commitments instead of optimising them, reminisce on the “end of an era”—pinpointing a final carefree night with friends before marriages, kids and tighter schedules reshaped everything & maxing out your skills to learn what truly fits. Stan Link: https://stan.store/meremortalsTimeline: (00:00:00) Intro(00:01:32) Today's loose topics: busy, tired, and ends of eras(00:04:29) Work surge, funding cycles, and context switching(00:07:14) Time slipping: dating, late nights, and sleep debt(00:10:52) Merging habits: training with podcasts, dropping networking(00:13:20) Reducing decision fatigue, going with the flow (kids)(00:18:18) Meal batching as an antidote to micro decisions(00:21:24) The Springwood night: last carefree gathering(00:25:56) Complexity vs difficulty: why coordination gets hard(00:31:04) Revisiting UQ: inner child, fear and growth(00:35:00) Wisdom with age and limits of advice to your younger self(00:39:37) Practices over time: identity, social media shifts(00:44:21) University credential vs building ‘monsters'(00:47:20) Purpose can wait; in youth, max your stats(00:51:01) Generational shift: job hopping and portfolio lives(00:53:38) Looks‑maxxing influencers and the price of attention(00:55:57) Capping off: embracing the thirties era Connect with Mere Mortals:Website: https://www.meremortalspodcasts.com/Discord: https://discord.gg/K99e8fysBnTwitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspodsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcastsValue 4 Value Support:V4V: https://www.meremortalspodcasts.com/supportPaypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast

From robot helpers to smart body parts, the line between human and machine is blurring. This hour, TED speakers design tech that enhances us without diminishing our humanity. Guests include robot choreographer and computer scientist Catie Cuan, engineer and biophysicist Hugh Herr, material scientist Anna Maria Coclite and biochemist Jennifer Doudna.TED Radio Hour+ listeners now get access to bonus episodes, with more ideas from TED speakers and deeper conversations with Manoush. By signing up for Plus, you directly support our work and public media, so all your episodes (like this one!) come to you without sponsor breaks. Learn more at plus.npr.org/ted.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

After six years and two shows, we've made a big decision.Both podcasts are officially merging into one — The SexMD. One show, one home, one place where all the conversations about feeling better, looking better, and having better sex live together.Nothing you loved is going away. It's just cleaner, easier to find, and better than ever.Whether you've been with us from the beginning or you're discovering us for the first time — welcome. You picked a great time to join.

After six years and two shows, we've made a big decision.Both podcasts are officially merging into one — The SexMD. One show, one home, one place where all the conversations about feeling better, looking better, and having better sex live together.Nothing you loved is going away. It's just cleaner, easier to find, and better than ever.Whether you've been with us from the beginning or you're discovering us for the first time — welcome. You picked a great time to join.

First contact is easy. Living together isn't. How would humanity merge with alien civilizations in a shared galaxy of trade, politics, and uneasy peace?Get Nebula using my link for 50% off an annual subscription: https://go.nebula.tv/isaacarthurWatch my exclusive video Nearby Supernovae: https://nebula.tv/videos/isaacarthur-nearby-supernovae-could-one-destroy-earth-and-could-we-stop-itCheck out Gods & Monsters: https://nebula.tv/curiousarchive/gods-and-monsters?ref=isaacarthur

First contact is easy. Living together isn't. How would humanity merge with alien civilizations in a shared galaxy of trade, politics, and uneasy peace?Get Nebula using my link for 50% off an annual subscription: https://go.nebula.tv/isaacarthurWatch my exclusive video Nearby Supernovae: https://nebula.tv/videos/isaacarthur-nearby-supernovae-could-one-destroy-earth-and-could-we-stop-itCheck out Gods & Monsters: https://nebula.tv/curiousarchive/gods-and-monsters?ref=isaacarthur

Doubts are being raised about a proposal to merge TSB Bank with Heartland Bank with one former director of the Taranaki institution likening it to selling off the family silver. Taranaki Whanganui reporter Robin Martin reports.

Links For The Occult Rejectshttps://linktr.ee/theoccultrejectsOccult Research Institutehttps://www.occultresearchinstitute.org/Substackhttps://substack.com/@theoccultrejects?r=7auau0&utm_campaign=profile&utm_medium=profile-pageCash Apphttps://cash.app/$theoccultrejectsVenmo@TheOccultRejectsBuy Me A Coffeebuymeacoffee.com/TheOccultRejectsPatreonhttps://www.patreon.com/TheOccultRejectsPart 1: The Road of RhythmPart 1 focuses on the drum as an ancient technology of altered consciousness. The argument is not that every beat causes trance, or that neuroscience has proven spirits. The stronger argument is that rhythm enters the human organism through hearing, motor prediction, breath, movement, attention, emotion, expectation, culture, and social synchrony. The drum becomes powerful when sound, body, group, ritual frame, and meaning converge. These sources support the archaeology, neuroscience, EEG research, shamanic studies, possession studies, Indigenous and culturally specific drum traditions, ritual theory, placebo and meaning-response research, ceremonial magic, and modern witchcraft material used in the episode.Core Academic and Scientific SourcesHuels, Emma R., Hyoungkyu Kim, UnCheol Lee, Tirsa Bel-Bahar, Ana V. Colmenero, Alexandra Nelson, Stefanie Blain-Moraes, George A. Mashour, and Richard E. Harris. “Neural Correlates of the Shamanic State of Consciousness.” Frontiers in Human Neuroscience 15 (2021): 610466. Use for the strongest modern EEG anchor. This study used high-density EEG with shamanic practitioners and controls during rest, shamanic drumming, and classical music listening. It assessed altered-state reports alongside brain measures such as power, connectivity, signal diversity, and criticality. Use carefully: the study does not prove spirits or show that drumming mechanically causes trance in everyone. It supports the more careful claim that trained practitioners entering shamanic states with drumming show measurable brain-state differences.Gordon, Yoel, Golan Karvat, Noa Dagan, and Ayelet N. Landau. “Neural Tracking at Theta Predicts Drumming-Induced Altered States of Consciousness.” Scientific Reports 16, no. 1 (2026): Article 10204. Use for the strongest updated drumming/theta/neural-tracking source. This study tested drumming at theta, delta, and alpha-rate rhythms while recording EEG, and found that stronger rhythmic neural tracking at theta was linked to stronger altered-experience reports. Use carefully: this does not mean theta equals the spirit world or that one frequency opens a portal. The serious point is that altered experience may depend partly on how strongly the nervous system tracks rhythmic stimulation.Aparicio-Terrés, R., et al. “The Neurobiology of Altered States of Consciousness Induced by Drumming and Other Rhythmic Sound Patterns.” Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, 2025. Use for the newer review literature showing that rhythmic sound is now a serious altered-consciousness research topic. This supports the opening claim that modern academia is examining drumming, rhythmic sound, absorption, relaxation, cognition, and neural activity without reducing the subject to one simple “trance frequency.” The review is especially useful for framing the field as promising but still complex.Neher, Andrew. “Auditory Driving Observed with Scalp Electrodes in Normal Subjects.” Electroencephalography and Clinical Neurophysiology 13 (1961): 449–451. Use for the historical bridge between repetitive sound, EEG, auditory driving, and early scientific interest in rhythmic stimulation.Neher, Andrew. “A Physiological Explanation of Unusual Behavior in Ceremonies Involving Drums.” Human Biology 34, no. 2 (1962): 151–160. Use carefully. This is useful as an early attempt to connect ceremonial drumming and physiology, but it should be balanced with Rouget because the “drum simply causes trance” argument is too mechanical.Maurer, R., V. K. Kumar, L. Woodside, and R. J. Pekala. “Phenomenological Experience in Response to Monotonous Drumming and Hypnotizability.” American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis 40, no. 2 (1997): 130–145. Use for monotonous drumming, subjective altered experience, imagery, absorption, and hypnotizability.Maxfield, Melinda C. “Effects of Rhythmic Drumming on EEG and Subjective Experience.” PhD diss., Institute of Transpersonal Psychology, 1990. Use as older supporting context on drumming, EEG, imagery, body-image changes, and subjective altered experience. Do not make this the main scientific proof; use it as background.Nozaradan, Sylvie, Isabelle Peretz, and André Mouraux. “Tagging the Neuronal Entrainment to Beat and Meter.” The Journal of Neuroscience 31, no. 28 (2011): 10234–10240. Use for EEG evidence that the brain can track beat and meter. This supports the claim that the brain does not merely hear rhythm as background sound; it can represent rhythmic structure in measurable ways.Nozaradan, Sylvie. “Exploring How Musical Rhythm Entrains Brain Activity with Electroencephalogram Frequency-Tagging.” Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B 369, no. 1658 (2014). Use as broader rhythm/EEG entrainment support. This helps explain frequency-tagging, beat tracking, meter, neural entrainment, and the measurable relationship between rhythmic structure and brain activity.Thaut, Michael H., Gerald C. McIntosh, and Volker Hoemberg. “Neurobiological Foundations of Neurologic Music Therapy: Rhythmic Entrainment and the Motor System.” Frontiers in Psychology 5 (2015). Use for rhythm as motor-system timing information. This supports the claim that a beat can become bodily instruction, not just sound for the ear. Especially useful when discussing rhythmic auditory stimulation, motor planning, gait, entrainment, and the auditory-motor bridge.Ross, Jessica M., John R. Iversen, and Ramesh Balasubramaniam. “Time Perception for Musical Rhythms: Sensorimotor Perspectives on Entrainment, Simulation, and Prediction.” 2022. Use for rhythm, timing, prediction, sensorimotor entrainment, and the way musical rhythm interacts with time perception.Hove, Michael J., and Jane L. Risen. “It's All in the Timing: Interpersonal Synchrony Increases Affiliation.” Social Cognition 27, no. 6 (2009): 949–960. Use for synchrony and social bonding. This helps support the group-body argument: moving or acting in time with others can increase affiliation.Wiltermuth, Scott S., and Chip Heath. “Synchrony and Cooperation.” Psychological Science 20, no. 1 (2009): 1–5. Use for the claim that synchronized movement can increase cooperation and attachment among participants.Tarr, Bronwyn, Jacques Launay, and Robin I. M. Dunbar. “Music and Social Bonding: ‘Self-Other' Merging and Neurohormonal Mechanisms.” Frontiers in Psychology 5 (2014): 1096. Use for music, synchrony, bonding, endorphin/social mechanisms, and why group rhythm can feel like more than private listening.Fancourt, Daisy, Rosie Perkins, Sara Ascenso, Louise Atkins, Fatima Kilfeather, and Aaron Williamon. “Effects of Group Drumming Interventions on Anxiety, Depression, Social Resilience and Inflammatory Immune Response among Mental Health Service Users.” PLOS ONE 11, no. 3 (2016): e0151136. Use for modern group-drumming research showing psychological and physiological effects, including anxiety, depression, social resilience, wellbeing, and inflammatory immune response. Use carefully: this does not make group drumming a cure-all. It supports the more grounded claim that embodied rhythm and group participation can affect mood, social connection, and body chemistry.Bittman, Barry B., et al. “Composite Effects of Group Drumming Music Therapy on Modulation of Neuroendocrine-Immune Parameters in Normal Subjects.” Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine 7, no. 1 (2001): 38–47. Use as older supporting material on group drumming and neuroendocrine-immune measures. Keep secondary. Fancourt is cleaner for the main script body.Archaeology and Deep History of DrumsLawergren, Bo. “Neolithic Drums in China.” In Music Archaeology in China. 2006. Use for clay drums in Neolithic China and the deep-history claim that drums are not just poetic symbols of antiquity. They appear in the archaeological record as instruments tied to early sound-making, ceremony, and social order.Both, Arnd Adje. “Music Archaeology: Some Methodological and Theoretical Considerations.” Use as general support for why ancient instruments should be treated as ritual and social evidence, not merely decorative objects.Anthropology, Ethnomusicology, Ritual, and TranceRouget, Gilbert. Music and Trance: A Theory of the Relations Between Music and Possession. Translated by Brunhilde Biebuyck. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1985. Essential source. Use for the caution that music does not mechanically or universally cause trance. Rouget helps keep the argument academically serious by emphasizing culture, ritual frame, meaning, and expectation.Becker, Judith. Deep Listeners: MAlso want to remind people about the website, if you're into reading we have tons of information by multiple contributors, and we got t-shirts up on the site if you're interested. Fun fact, the art is all based on the eyeball. A

CoinDesk's The Policy Protocol hosts Rebecca Rettig and Renato Mariotti dig into the New York Times investigation of the CFTC and Kalshi's latest lawsuit against Minnesota before sitting down with Aaron Klein, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. Klein argues that independent financial regulators have been turned into "subsidiaries of the White House," warns that the CFTC is not structurally up to the jurisdiction CLARITY would hand it, and makes the case that the SEC and CFTC should be merged. He also unpacks lessons from Dodd-Frank and the savings-and-loan crisis. Plus, Rebecca and Renato debrief on the CFTC staffing debate and name House Agriculture Chairman GT Thompson and Ranking Member Angie Craig as their People of the Week for their bipartisan push to fill out the CFTC commission. - Timecodes: 00:00 Welcome to The Policy Protocol 00:43 All Roads Lead to the CFTC 01:22 Unpacking the NYT's CFTC Investigation 02:41 Pendulum Swing: Reading the NYT in Context 05:11 Why the CFTC Needs Funding and Personnel 06:52 Aaron Klein Joins the Show 07:30 The History of the CFTC and the Great Salad Oil Swindle 08:10 Independent Regulators as White House Subsidiaries 09:39 Dodd-Frank Lessons for the CLARITY Era 11:47 The Case for Merging the SEC and CFTC 13:21 PolyMarket, Soft on Financial Crime, and CZ/Binance 15:06 SEC-CFTC Office Sharing and the Value of MOUs 18:16 Renato and Rebecca Debrief on the CFTC's Future 21:45 Trump on Prediction Markets and Expanded Jurisdiction 22:30 People of the Week: GT Thompson and Angie Craig 24:26 Tribute to Ondo CEO Nathan Allman 25:01 Closing Thoughts and Sign-Off

Success has a sustainability problem. In today's episode, Kevin and Alan examine fulfillment as a deeper measure of sustainable success. They break down alignment, identity, productivity, contribution, quality of life, and self-respect through real coaching patterns and personal experience. Kevin reflects on how his relationship with work is changing, while Alan clarifies why meaningful progress must connect what you value, what you build, and how you contribute.This is a grounded reminder that success only lasts when it is aligned enough to keep living, building, and improving with intention. Listen now, because success without meaning is just a very polished trap._______________________Book Alan's Business Breakthrough Session. Your first 30-minute coaching call is FREE. Learn how to prioritize success and let your quality of life become the byproduct. - https://calendly.com/alanlazaros/30-minute-breakthrough-sessionJoin the "Next Level Fitness Accountability Group" – Reach out to Kevin or Alan on Instagram:Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/_______________________NLU is not just a podcast; it's a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.For more information, check out our website and socials using the links below.

“We're in a world surrounded by so much data and AI we can get lost in the noise of it all, and I've found that throughout my year as a performer, the amount of times people say to me, you know, your content is great, but your energy, your essence, your presence is what really makes us attracted to connecting with you…” Sarah Rowan Top Five Tips For Staying Human, Creative and Connected In 2026 1. Choose presence over performance2. Create spaces where people feel safe, seen and connected3. Prioritize quiet...stillness is becoming a superpower4. Grow your tech skills... and your human skills... side by side5. Get your hands in the dirt TIME STAMP SUMMARY01:39 Human connection and presence are essential, 06:05 Creating a safe space for people to be creative, free from judgment and ridicule.12:48 Learning bit by bit to avoid burnout and stay present.18: 50 Finding small ways to connect with nature, even in urban environments, to improve their overall well-being. Where to find Sarah?Website                             https://artistsarahrowan.com/about/LinkedIn                            https://www.linkedin.com/in/artistsarahrowan/ Sarah Rowan Bio Sarah Rowan (who now goes by Rowan) is an artist and thought leader who empowers individuals and organizations to ignite a better future through creativity. As one of Australia's top Speed Painters, she has lived and breathed the dynamic process of transformation for over 20 years, turning blank walls and cavasses into thought-provoking pieces of art, with limited time and often in front of a live audience. Merging her artistic talent with her passion for public speaking, Rowan has reimagined the role of the artist, pushing the boundaries of a studio-based pursuit into a trail-blazing performance genre that challenges the limitations of time and space.After graduating from Converse College in 2003 with a BFA in Studio Art, Rowan started an art business in Greenville, South Carolina, USA before moving to Sydney to expand her horizons. It was here that she used the process of creative futurism to overcome depression, challenge chronic illness and create a new future for herself and her family. No longer shackled by societal norms, she has stepped into the full power of her truth personally and professionally.Rowan's strong emotional storytelling, along with her ability to paint fast and think fast has captivated hundreds of clients like Nestlé, ANZ, AMP, Ernst & Young, Woolworths, Sydney Airport, and Priceline. She has inspired audiences to embrace their own creativity which she believes is a “birthright to all” and to date has painted at over 600 events raising over $400,000 for charity.Other clients include: SAP, Netball World Cup, Salvation Army, Terry White Chemmart, YPO, City of Sydney, Commonwealth Bank, American Express, Doterra, Department of Defence, Mirvac, Australian College of Nursing, Liberty Finance, University of Sydney, NAB, ANZ, Dexus, Fastway Couriers, AUSCAM, Bombay Sapphire, International Canadian School Ho Chi Min City, etc.

If you enjoy this episode, we're sure you will enjoy more content like this on The Occult Rejects.  In fact, we have curated playlists on occult topics like grimoires, esoteric concepts and phenomena, occult history, analyzing true crime and cults with an occult lens, Para politics, and occultism in music. Whether you enjoy consuming your content visually or via audio, we've got you covered - and it will always be provided free of charge.  So, if you enjoy what we do and want to support our work of providing accessible, free content on various platforms, please consider making a donation to the links provided below.  Thank you and enjoy the episode!Links For The Occult Rejectshttps://linktr.ee/theoccultrejectsOccult Research Institutehttps://www.occultresearchinstitute.org/Substackhttps://substack.com/@theoccultrejects?r=7auau0&utm_campaign=profile&utm_medium=profile-pageCash Apphttps://cash.app/$theoccultrejectsVenmo@TheOccultRejectsBuy Me A Coffeebuymeacoffee.com/TheOccultRejectsPatreonhttps://www.patreon.com/TheOccultRejectsEPISODE 1 BIBLIOGRAPHYThe Building That Changes YouAckerman, Joshua M., Christopher C. Nocera, and John A. Bargh. “Incidental Haptic Sensations Influence Social Judgments and Decisions.” Science 328, no. 5986 (2010): 1712–1715. Key use: Haptics, touch, weight, texture, hardness, and the idea that physical sensation can influence judgment and social interpretation. This supports the tactile layer of the episode: heavy doors, cold stone, worn rails, kneelers, relic cases, and sacred matter as meaningful contact.Higuera-Trujillo, Juan Luis, Carmen Llinares, and Eduardo Macagno. “The Cognitive-Emotional Design and Study of Architectural Space: A Scoping Review of Neuroarchitecture and Its Precursor Approaches.” Sensors 21, no. 6 (2021): 2193. Key use: Neuroarchitecture, emotional response to built environments, and the idea that architecture can be studied as a cognitive-emotional stimulus rather than only as art or style.Kilde, Jeanne Halgren. Sacred Power, Sacred Space: An Introduction to Christian Architecture and Worship. Oxford University Press, 2008. Key use: Major backbone source for Christian architecture as a system of worship, power, spatial order, and embodied religious experience. Oxford's description emphasizes Kilde's argument that church buildings represent and reify different forms of power, especially divine power.Morgan, David. The Sacred Gaze: Religious Visual Culture in Theory and Practice. University of California Press, 2005. Key use: Religious seeing, visual culture, sacred images, and the idea that vision is an active religious practice that can invest images, persons, times, and places with spiritual meaning.Taves, Ann. Religious Experience Reconsidered: A Building-Block Approach to the Study of Religion and Other Special Things. Princeton University Press, 2009. Key use: Helps frame religious experience without reducing it to one fixed category. Useful for the episode's approach to how experiences become interpreted, named, and treated as religious or sacred.Clark, Andy. Surfing Uncertainty: Prediction, Action, and the Embodied Mind. Oxford University Press, 2016. Key use: Predictive processing, active inference, and the idea that perception is not passive recording but active prediction and model-building. This supports the “brain does not enter a church like a camera” argument.Krueger, Joel. “Extended Mind and Religious Cognition.” 2016. Key use: Extended and embodied cognition applied to religious practice, ritual objects, and environments. Useful for arguing that worship is not only inside the head but supported by bodies, tools, spaces, and shared action.Oxford Academic. “Embodied Cognition in Ecclesial Practices.” In Oxford Studies in Analytic Theology, 2023. Key use: Christian practices, embodied cognition, Eucharistic action, and religious material culture as cognitively significant rather than merely symbolic.Piff, Paul K., Pia Dietze, Matthew Feinberg, Daniel M. Stancato, and Dacher Keltner. “Awe, the Small Self, and Prosocial Behavior.” Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 108, no. 6 (2015): 883–899. Key use: Awe, vastness, the “small self,” and the psychological effects of encountering something perceived as larger than the ordinary self. This supports the cathedral-scale and sacred-vastness argument.Tarr, Bronwyn, Jacques Launay, and Robin I. M. Dunbar. “Music and Social Bonding: ‘Self-Other' Merging and Neurohormonal Mechanisms.” Frontiers in Psychology 5 (2014): 1096. Key use: Music, synchrony, social bonding, rhythmic action, and group cohesion. This supports the sections on chant, group singing, ritual synchrony, and bodies acting together in sacred space.Ittyerah, Miriam. “Memory for Curvature of Objects: Haptic Touch vs. Vision.” 2007. Key use: Haptic memory, touch-based object recognition, and the idea that touch can produce durable memory traces. Useful for worn rails, thresholds, beads, icons, relic cases, and repeated sacred contact.Lange, Lisa S., et al. “Tactile Memory Impairments in Younger and Older Adults.” Scientific Reports, 2024. Key use: Modern tactile-memory framing; useful for the claim that tactile experience is remembered and retrieved as part of embodied life.Freedberg, David. The Power of Images: Studies in the History and Theory of Response. University of Chicago Press, 1989. Key use: Image response, embodied reaction to sacred or charged images, and why religious images can provoke devotion, fear, destruction, reverence, or bodily response.Plate, S. Brent. A History of Religion in 5½ Objects: Bringing the Spiritual to Its Senses. Beacon Press, 2014. Key use: Material religion, objects, sensory experience, and the idea that religion is encountered through things, not only beliefs.Meyer, Birgit. Mediation and the Genesis of Presence: Toward a Material Approach to Religion. Key use: Material religion, mediation, presence, and how religious traditions use media, objects, images, sounds, and spaces to make the sacred present.Pallasmaa, Juhani. The Eyes of the Skin: Architecture and the Senses. Key use: Architecture as a multisensory experience, especially touch, materiality, atmosphere, and the limits of treating architecture as only visual.Mallgrave, Harry Francis. The Architect's Brain: Neuroscience, Creativity, and Architecture. Wiley-Blackwell, 2010. Key use: Architecture and neuroscience, built form, emotion, perception, and embodied response to space.Robinson, Sarah, and Juhani Pallasmaa, eds. Mind in Architecture: Neuroscience, Embodiment, and the Future of Design. MIT Press, 2015. Key use: Embodiment, neuroscience, architectural perception, and how built environments shape lived experience.Eliade, Mircea. The Sacred and the Profane: The Nature of Religion. Key use: Sacred space, threshold, center, axis mundi, and the distinction between ordinary space and holy space. This becomes more important in Episode 2, but it also supports Episode 1's general sacred-space framework.van Gennep, Arnold. The Rites of Passage. Key use: Separation, threshold, and incorporation. Useful for the threshold logic that runs through the whole series.Turner, Victor. The Ritual Process: Structure and Anti-Structure. Key use: Liminality, transition, communitas, and the ritual power of in-between states.Tuan, Yi-Fu. Space and Place: The Perspective of Experience. Key use: Lived place, memory, experience, and the difference between abstract space and meaningful place.Smith, Jonathan Z. To Take Place: Toward Theory in Ritual. Key use: Ritual as place-making; sacred places are produced through repeated action, interpretation, and return.Morgan, David. Visual Piety: A History and Theory of Popular Religious Images. Key use: Popular religious images, devotional seeing, sacred practice, and how visual material becomes part of lived religion.Kieckhefer, Richard. Theology in Stone: Church Architecture from Byzantium to Berkeley. Key use: Church architecture as theology in built form, useful as a broad Christian architectural bridge source.Also want to remind people about the website, if you're into reading we have tons of information by multiple contributors, and we got t-shirts up on the site if you're interested. Fun fact, the art is all based on the eyeball. A

John Sharkey is the CEO of Spinnaker SCA, a leading supply chain services firm providing end-to-end supply chain strategy, planning, and execution consulting services. He is also the Global Supply Chain Practice Leader at Publicis Sapient, where he leads supply chain strategy, client success, team development, and financial performance. With over two decades of experience in large-scale supply chain transformation, John is a trusted advisor to organizations across retail, manufacturing, distribution, and high-tech industries. In this episode… Merging two companies is rarely as simple as matching complementary services on paper. What does it take to turn a complicated first transaction into a successful second bite? John Sharkey, CEO of Spinnaker SCA, shares how the company merged with SCApath, partnered with Black Lake Capital, and scaled through organic growth and acquisition. With host Todd Taskey, John explains how they chose the right PE partner, integrated teams and go-to-market strategy, and adapted leadership inside a larger global company.

In this episode, Josefina explores with you the distinctions between the masculine & feminine spiritual paths as a way for you to find which path feels more true to you. She's supporting you in focusing on reclaiming authenticity and aliveness rather than over-optimizing the body through traditional masculine-based practices, giving permission to your feminine light to shine bright through the feminine spiritual path, which is divinely designed differently for a female body and spirit.✧The Feminine vs. Masculine PathThe masculine path, often rooted in traditions like Vipassana, is a more rigid and strictly disciplined practice of stillness, non-reactivity, and observing reality to move beyond attachments and cravings.The feminine path, which is rooted more in both Tantric traditions and somatic-based practices. This path is directed towards "full contact" with reality, involving active participation and riding the edge of sensations rather than stepping back to observe them.Masculine practices focus on neutralizing energy and transcending desire, while the feminine path uses movement, breath-work, sound, and pleasure to activate energy and radiance.Many women feel exhausted because they try to follow masculine operating systems, schedules, and practices that may deplete their natural feminine vitality.✧Spiritual Polarity in RelationshipsJosefina addresses a common fear in relationships, that partners will grow apart if they follow different spiritual paths.Merging completely by adopting a partner's habits and abandoning personal interests is a "spiritual trap" that can lead to a flat, dull, and chargeless polarity in a romantic relationship.Relationship polarity requires two distinct energy fields; attraction is fueled by the meeting of different energies, such as masculine stillness and feminine fire.Intimacy is built through genuine curiosity about who the other person is becoming rather than achieving absolute sameness.✧Integration and PracticeMaintaining separate individual morning practices allows each partner to tend to their own inner life first, bringing more authenticity to the union.Vipassana can be integrated as a complementary tool for sharpening focus and mental faculties without replacing the movement-based feminine path.Shared language and discussing what is "alive" within each person create a deeper connection than simply matching practices.Abandoning one's path to mirror a partner is not true love and can lead to self-abandonment and an erosion of the connection.A woman rooted in her own feminine path is more present, magnetic, and alive within her relationship.The ultimate goal is for each partner to be fully on their own path while staying curious and supportive of the other's journey toward their highest potential.✧ Connect with Josefina:Follow on Instagram:⁠⁠⁠ ⁠@Josefinabashout⁠⁠⁠⁠ Apply for your free Pleasure blueprint session with Josefina https://lp.josefinabashout.com/booking

In this podcast, Greg Voisen sits down with transpersonal psychologist and author Dr. Colleen Quinn to explore her spiritual memoir, Essence Merging. The book chronicles her journey from being a "floating head" disconnected from her body to finding divine transformation through two near-death experiences and sacred breathwork. Dr. Quinn reveals how we can dissolve the "wounded child" ego to experience radical soul-to-soul connections and return home to our most authentic, sacred selves.

In this episode of the Digital Rapport® Podcast, I share the personal story behind why I chose to help coaches grow their businesses instead of becoming a coach myself.After starting my career in the corporate world with companies like Tetley Tea and Sun Microsystems, my passion for personal development led me into the worlds of NLP, hypnosis, emotional intelligence, and life coaching. But one powerful conversation changed the direction of my career forever.I realised that many talented coaches struggled not because they lacked skill or passion, but because they lacked the marketing systems, technology, and business infrastructure needed to grow successfully online.That insight led me to combine my background in IT and technology with my passion for personal development — helping coaches, consultants, authors, and experts build scalable online businesses through funnels, automation, email marketing, and digital strategy.In this episode, I talk about:• How I got started in the coaching industry• The moment that changed my perspective on coaching• Learning from mentors like Janet Schweitzer and Ron Holland• The early days of online funnels and email marketing• Why technology overwhelms many coaches• Building systems that help experts scale online• Merging passion, business, and technology into one missionIf you're a coach, consultant, entrepreneur, or expert trying to grow your business online, this episode offers valuable insights into the strategy and systems that support long-term growth.#CoachingBusiness #DigitalMarketing #PersonalDevelopment #OnlineBusiness #Funnels #MarketingAutomationhttps://www.digitalrapportpodcast.com

This week on bigcitysmalltown, Bob Rivard sits down with Ashley Alvarado, CEO of Texas Public Radio, and Angie Mock, CEO of the San Antonio Report, to discuss a major development in San Antonio's local news landscape: the two organizations are merging. Effective July 1st, the San Antonio Report will donate its assets to Texas Public Radio, combining operations under one roof to strengthen independent, nonprofit journalism in San Antonio.They discuss:Why two financially healthy organizations chose to merge — and how this is different from the consolidations happening elsewhere in the industryWhat the combined newsroom will look like on day one: 31 journalism positions, with all but four working as reporters in the communityHow the San Antonio Report's digital specificity and Texas Public Radio's broadcast reach complement each other — and what that means for covering the cityWhy YouTube has become unavoidable for reaching younger San Antonians, with 60 to 75 percent of county residents turning to it for news every weekWhat Ashley Alvarado learned leading a similar merger at KPCC in Los Angeles — and how those lessons are shaping the approach hereHow the two newsrooms will physically unite, with the San Antonio Report moving to TPR's downtown facilities in late JulyThe challenge of serving a politically diverse city — and why relevance and trust have to be built together, not assumedWhat the merger means for investigative and accountability journalism at City Hall and beyondRECOMMENDED NEXT LISTEN:▶ 170. Don Graham and Dr. Abel Antonio Chávez on Journalism, Our Lady of the Lake, and Why Access to Education Changes Everything — The retired chairman of The Washington Post Company and the president of Our Lady of the Lake University on the state of journalism, democracy, and what it takes to keep independent news alive in a city like San Antonio.…..GET THE NEWSLETTER

Mukhtar Kadiri: Merging Three Companies Into One Platform — When Founders Can't Let Go and Leaders Won't Decide Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "A lot of times, conflict arises because people don't understand each other. The first thing you need to do is make sure they understand each other." - Mukhtar Kadiri   Mukhtar brings us a challenge from a merger and acquisition program where a dominant software company acquired two competitors simultaneously — both solving the same market gap, each with their own platform, their own founders still in place, and their own fierce loyalties. The mission: merge three platforms into one. But the technical challenge was the easy part. The real complexity was human — founders who'd built their companies from scratch watching their babies potentially get retired, teams losing people to low morale and uncertainty, and leadership paralyzed by the knowledge that every decision would make somebody unhappy. Together, Mukhtar and Vasco explore a four-step approach to navigating these high-stakes disagreements: first, create a feeling of time abundance — never rush a decision that requires buy-in. Second, get each side to present their perspective with only clarifying questions, no judgment. Third, name the disagreement explicitly — turn emotions into concrete, debatable statements. And fourth, co-create an alternative solution that doesn't come from either original position, because co-creation builds commitment. Mukhtar adds a critical fifth element: steel-manning — having each side articulate the other's argument as if defending it. When people feel genuinely understood, even "disagree and commit" becomes possible.   In this episode, we refer to steel-manning and the concept of disagree and commit.   Self-reflection Question: When you're facilitating a disagreement between two strong positions, do you rush toward a decision — or do you invest the time to make sure both sides can articulate each other's argument before you even think about next steps?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

Stay Connected with Strange Inc: https://sendfox.com/StrangeincorporatedDr. Nour Akhras is a pediatric infectious diseases physician, one of only 1,500 in the United States. Just One: A Journey of Perseverance and Conviction chronicles the life of this Syrian American doctor, honestly portraying her struggles as an American Muslim in an Islamophobic climate and as a mother providing humanitarian aid in war-torn countries around the globe. Throughout her journey, she takes inspiration from the extraordinary courage of young and old refugees forced to abandon their homes yet determined to survive and rebuild their lives. Each story is different, and every loss is personal. Between heartbreaking realities and moments of resilience, she implores readers to respect the dignity of every human life.Buy her book here: https://a.co/d/0wz0J4i

In this insightful interview, Kathryn Roelofs, co-author the new book "Leading Worship for Workers" explores the profound connection between work and worship, emphasizing how understanding vocational identities can transform worship practices and community engagement. She shares practical strategies for pastors and worship leaders to incorporate vocational awareness into their ministries, fostering holistic spiritual growth. Connect with Kathryn: Book link : https://bakerbookhouse.com/products/9781540969842_leading-worship-for-workers Web: https://worshipforworkers.com/ +++++ Worshipology with Kurtis Parks is a part of the Worship Leader Magazine Podcast Network. WL Mag exists to equip Spirit-led worship leaders with practical tools, theological insight, and encouragement for the local church. This episode was brought to you by PraiseCharts. If you are a Worship leader or musician, when it comes to leading in church or playing worship music, you need reliable, high-quality music resources. Check out PraiseCharts.com today and see how it can transform your worship ministry!  ++++++++++ To learn more about Kurtis and his book Worshipology: www.worshipologybook.com or www.kurtisparks.com 

Luke J. Hushagen, M.D., Internal Medicine Physician at Mt. Rushmore Road Clinic debuts on the Doc Talk podcast to discuss the Rapid City Medical Center Merger with Monument Health. Dr. Hushagen has an established practice in Rapid City and he intends to make the transition as smooth as possible for his patients. He's eager to continue collaborating with local colleagues while having the continuity of care that working with Monument Health can provide.Listen in to hear Dr. Hushagen's take on why this is a positive change for patients, who will still get the best care possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this episode of Shoe In Show, industry veterans Rick Muskat and David Schwartz join the conversation to discuss the recent integration of Deer Stags into Jack Schwartz Shoes. Together, they explore how shared values, complementary strengths, and decades of family leadership led to a partnership designed to navigate today's challenges—from tariffs and logistics to shifting market dynamics. The conversation highlights how collaboration, operational scale, and strategic alignment can unlock new opportunities in marketing, manufacturing, and long-term growth. With special guests: Rick Muskat, President, COO Deer Stags Concepts, Inc. and David Schwartz, CEO, Jack Schwartz Shoes Hosted by: Matt Priest, FDRA and Andy Polk, FDRA

Merging professional expertise with a lifelong passion for ocean conservation.Jessica Adanich shares her journey from a childhood immersed in creativity to founding Fuzzy Sharks and Sharkapalooza, a non-profit art and conservation festival in Florida.Jessica chats with Claire about the challenges of art school, the resilience required to pivot careers during economic downturns, and the importance of separating personal identity from professional critique. We touch on the scientific theory of biophilia and how Jessica's 'fuzzy shark' soft sculptures help people connect with misunderstood marine life. Hear about the bravery involved in moving across the country to follow a dream, the realities of balancing a design agency with passion projects, and why taking a chance on yourself is the ultimate creative act, as well as:How art can hit differently than verbal communication in conservation efforts.The transition from corporate marketing at Mace to launching an independent design studio.Overcoming the fear of failure and the importance of pushing out of your comfort zone.The growth of Sharkapalooza from a microbrewery event to a city-wide festival featuring major aquariums and OSEARCH.Connect with Jessica here.Find Fuzzy Sharks here.I would love some financial support to help me to keep making this podcast. Visit buymeacoffee.com/creativityfoundSupport the showFollow @CreativityFoundPodcast on InstagramWant to be a guest on Creativity Found? Send me a message on PodMatch, herePodcast recorded with Riverside and hosted by Buzzsprout

This is a meditation called Intuitive New You I did a few months ago to help you receive answers to questions you have about how to proceed in your life. It's amazing what comes up when we just pause and listen to the subconscious mind (to our higher selves). It's then just about actually doing what is suggested – trusting! I hope you enjoy. ---- Merging the spiritual with the real world, Rachel Horton White helps people release negative patterns in their lives, with practical tools like mindfulness, energy and intuition exercises, to connect with their true, inner selves. Through her work in Soulful Work Intuitive Consulting, Rachel facilitates groups of soul-seekers and spiritual entrepreneurs, has a meditation podcast called The Courageous Path and writes a lot. With a diploma in Integrative Healing Arts from the Southwest Institute for Healing Arts, Rachel is a life coach, hypnotherapist, mindfulness teacher, intuitive reader, tree-hugger and loves to talk to angels. Rachel also has a Bachelor's Degree in English from Wellesley College and a Master's Degree in Public Administration from the University of Georgia, yet claims her true education came from studying abroad in Dakar, Senegal. Her recent book is a spiritual toolkit called Tools for the Awakening Soul: A Guide to Activate Your Intuition and Uncover Your Life's Purpose. Rachel lives on a homestead in mid-coast Maine where she and her husband homeschool their two bright, energetic children. You can find Rachel, along with the book, meditations and writing tools, at www.soulfulworkconsulting.com or www.rachelhortonwhite.com. Music by Chris Kemp White (www.chriskempwhite.com). Photo by

Send us Fan MailMonday morning ride on Carpooling with Paul—and today's conversation goes from rocket launches to media shakeups.Paul kicks off the week with South Florida vibes, a possible SpaceX Falcon Heavy launch you might actually see from your backyard, and then dives into breaking industry talk: rumors of Sirius XM looking to acquire iHeartMedia.What does that mean for radio, streaming, and more importantly…podcasters?From the evolution of radio to the rise of streaming and podcasting, Paul unpacks the irony of media consolidation and asks the big question—where does the “little guy” fit in when everything gets bigger?

This episode dives deep into the intersection of mental health, motherhood, and Black identity. Featuring licensed clinical social worker Tisheila Justice, we explore how external environments, internal trauma, and societal stereotypes shape Black mothers' experiences and the importance of shifting from policies of control to practices of connection.In this episode:Tisheila Justice shares the 'iceberg of control' and how it manifests in Black motherhoodThe role of external systemic pressures versus internal belief systems in shaping behaviorsPractical strategies for shifting from me-focused to we-focused family dynamicsThe impact of intergenerational trauma and how it manifests in obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) and anxietyThe importance of attunement and emotional connection in parenting and partner supportThe significance of community, support systems, and the redefinition of Free Black MotherhoodResourcesWhat is EMDR Therapy?What is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?Her InstagramHer WebsiteTimestamps:00:00 - Introduction to Tisheila Justice and her journey02:07 - How a psychology class shifted her career path to social work04:49 - The systemic disarray she perceives in mental health and social justice07:57 - Tools and modalities used in helping moms adapt to external stressors09:23 - How trauma and birth experiences influence postpartum mental health10:50 - Supporting fathers and couples through emotional focused therapy13:46 - The iceberg of control and how underlying fears shape behaviors16:43 - The social invisibility of Black pain in healthcare settings18:46 - Brittany Cooper's concept of culture of dissemblance as resilience26:40 - The societal expectations placed on Black mothers and the illusion of control32:59 - Motherhood as a system of institutional control and resistance36:09 - Merging the 'me' and 'we' family concepts for healthier relationships43:33 - Addressing insecure attachment styles and their impact on support networks54:24 - Recognizing OCD and intrusive thoughts in postpartum women63:54 - The influence of past trauma and its manifestation in obsessive thoughts66:27 - How childhood fears translate into adult anxieties and compulsions70:40 - The idea that traumatic triggers are often the starting point for OCD74:39 - The cycle of mental health cycles and the need for compassionate awareness78:36 - What free Black motherhood means: joy, connection, and authenticityResources & Links:Connect with Tisheila Justice:Additional notes:This conversation underscores the importance of understanding the layered and systemic challenges Black mothers face, emphasizing a shift from control to connection. It invites a re-examination of cultural narratives and encourages healing through attunement, community, and trauma acknowledgment.

On our final day of focusing on stability in a season of instability, we will once again take a look at our available place within a solid and supportive community.The original Body of Christ should always be our model for our current Body of Christ. God always has one way and what we find in Acts 2 is His way for and to community.All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord's Supper), and to prayer. A deep sense of awe came over them all, and the apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders. And all the believers met together in one place and shared everything they had. They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need. They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord's Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity — all the while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people. And each day the Lord added to their fellowship those who were being saved. (v. 42-47) What do we see and hear the Body of Christ was all about?They met together devoted to worship, teaching, fellowship, eating together, and praying. Just brothers and sisters gathering with the common bond of growing in Christ and encouraging one another. Sounds really simple, doesn't it? Sounds pretty cool too, right?If you desire to get rid of as much instability in your life as possible and secure yourself more and more in your relationship with Christ, the template in today's passage is the key to true community. Merging your life with other believers who have your same heart, mind, and goals is crucial to finding health and maturity in every way, but most especially spiritually.Let's pray together: “Heavenly Father, life among the believers in the early church was pretty straightforward. Not much frills. Help me to find that. Help me to find my place in Your Body. I know my security and my kids' security can be found in You and those who love You. As above, so below.”

What if you could sell a business, get it handed back to you for $100, flip it again for a profit -and use that whole experience to build something even bigger? That's not luck. That's Qayyum Rajan. In this episode, Jaryd sits down with Qayyum -founder, developer, and holdco builder -who turned a single LinkedIn cold message into a PE exit, watched that same PE firm quietly forget his business existed, bought it back for $100, and relisted it on MicroAcquire while two buyers bid against each other in real time. But here's where it gets really interesting. After the exit, while everyone else was running away from content sites -Google had just torched their traffic with the helpful content update -Qayyum was running toward them. Buying burnt-out founders' blogs for $10K–$50K. Merging them. Building newsletters nobody had touched. Going faceless on YouTube. And quietly turning the whole thing into a cash-flowing media holdco that made back its entire investment in nine months. You'll learn how he evaluates and closes acquisitions in under 24 hours, why "domain authority and love" are his two non-negotiables, what it actually looks like to consolidate three sites under one domain without destroying the traffic -and why he thinks the biggest opportunity in content right now is hiding inside the businesses everyone else already walked away from. Most buyers wait for the perfect business. Qayyum just knows how to read the ones everyone else missed.

On this episode of the Live Greatly podcast, Kristel Bauer sits down with cardiologist Dr. Alan Rozanski to explore how to support heart health, longevity, and overall well-being through simple, science-backed habits. Together, they discuss how daily behaviors—from movement and nutrition to mindset—play a powerful role in long-term health. Dr. Rozanski shares insights from his integrative approach to cardiology, including the surprising impact of prolonged sitting, the importance of resistance training, and how small "exercise snacks" throughout the day can support energy and vitality. They also dive into the role of optimism in supporting both emotional well-being and physical health, along with approachable strategies you can begin using right away to feel better, think clearer, and live with more energy. If you're looking to elevate your health in a sustainable, empowering way, this episode is packed with insights to support you. Key Takeaways From This Episode: How to support heart health and longevity through everyday habits Why prolonged sitting has been called "the new smoking" — and what to do instead The benefits of resistance training for long-term health and vitality How to incorporate "exercise snacks" into your day to boost energy and performance Tips to boost optimism for physical and mental health Simple, sustainable strategies to support nutrition, movement, and overall well-being ABOUT DR. ALAN ROZANSKI Dr. Alan Rozanski is a distinguished Professor of Medicine at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai and Director of Nuclear Cardiology at Mount Sinai St. Luke. He has devoted his career to pioneering research that empowers individuals to cultivate vitality, sustain optimism, and master their emotional well-being as core components of lasting health. Merging his deep expertise in cardiology, health psychology, and behavioral medicine with his innovative framework, The Six Domains of Health, Dr. Rozanski offers a fresh, integrative perspective on how we can live longer, feel better, and approach life with greater emotional resilience. His voice is a compelling one in today's conversation on preventive medicine and total well-being. Connect with Dr. Alan Rozanski   Website: https://alanrozanski.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanrozanski/  About the Host of the Live Greatly podcast, Kristel Bauer: Kristel Bauer is a corporate wellness and performance expert, keynote speaker and TEDx speaker supporting organizations and individuals on their journeys for more happiness and success. She is the award-winning author of Work-Life Tango: Finding Happiness, Harmony, and Peak Performance Wherever You Work (John Murray Business November 19, 2024). With Kristel's healthcare background, she provides data driven actionable strategies to leverage happiness and high-power habits to drive growth mindsets, peak performance, profitability, well-being and a culture of excellence. Kristel's keynotes provide insights to "Live Greatly" while promoting leadership development and team building. Kristel is the creator and host of her global top self-improvement podcast, Live Greatly. She is a contributing writer for Entrepreneur, and she is an influencer in the business and wellness space having been recognized as a Top 10 Social Media Influencer of 2021 in Forbes. As an Integrative Medicine Fellow & Physician Assistant having practiced clinically in Integrative Psychiatry, Kristel has a unique perspective into attaining a mindset for more happiness and success. Kristel has presented to groups from the American Gas Association, Bank of America, bp, Commercial Metals Company, General Mills, Northwestern University, Santander Bank and many more. Kristel's work has been featured in Forbes and she has had multiple TV appearances including NBC News Daily, ABC News Live, FOX Weather, ABC 7 Chicago, WGN Daytime Chicago and more. Kristel lives in the Chicago, IL area and she can be booked for speaking engagements worldwide. To Book Kristel as a speaker for your next event, click here. Website: www.livegreatly.co  Follow Kristel Bauer on: Instagram: @livegreatly_co  LinkedIn: Kristel Bauer Twitter: @livegreatly_co Facebook: @livegreatly.co Youtube: Live Greatly, Kristel Bauer To Watch Kristel Bauer's TEDx talk of Redefining Work/Life Balance in a COVID-19 World click here. Click HERE to check out Kristel's corporate wellness and leadership blog Click HERE to check out Kristel's Travel and Wellness Blog Disclaimer: The contents of this podcast are intended for informational and educational purposes only. Always seek the guidance of your physician for any recommendations specific to you or for any questions regarding your specific health, your sleep patterns changes to diet and exercise, or any medical conditions.  Always consult your physician before starting any supplements or new lifestyle programs. All information, views and statements shared on the Live Greatly podcast are purely the opinions of the authors, and are not medical advice or treatment recommendations.  They have not been evaluated by the food and drug administration.  Opinions of guests are their own and Kristel Bauer & this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests.  Neither Kristel Bauer nor this podcast takes responsibility for possible health consequences of a person or persons following the information in this educational content.  Always consult your physician for recommendations specific to you.

The conversation covers a range of topics, including the impact of Michael Jackson's legacy, the potential for a Michael Jackson biopic, the rising cost of streaming services, and the enduring global influence of Michael Jackson. The discussion also delves into the impact of remakes, the legacy of Prince, and the influence of Michael Jackson on contemporary artists like Drake. The banter and humor between the hosts add an engaging and entertaining element to the conversation. The conversation delves into the world of streaming services, price points, and the merging of streaming networks. It then explores the impact of reboots on classic shows, the cancellation of the Buffy reboot, and the challenges of rebooting classic shows in the modern era.TakeawaysMichael Jackson's enduring global impactThe rising cost of streaming services Reboots and NostalgiaChallenges of Rebooting Classic ShowsChapters00:00 Rising Cost of Streaming Services36:08 Merging of Streaming Networks48:59 Rebooting Classic Shows and Fan Base

Join us for an insightful sponsored episode of The Edge of Show as we welcome Alok Sinha, Founder and Chief Ecosystem Officer at Pazalabs. In this episode, we dive deep into the world of real-world assets (RWAs) and how blockchain technology is revolutionizing capital markets.Discover how they are addressing inefficiencies in loan origination, securitization, and liquidity through innovative solutions like AI automation and compliant fractionalization.We explore the complexities of creating a full lifecycle asset commerce ecosystem, the importance of risk and compliance, and how Pazalabs is bridging the gap between traditional finance (CeFi) and decentralized finance (DeFi). Whether you're a seasoned investor or new to the world of blockchain, this episode offers valuable insights into the future of finance, the potential of RWAs, and the evolving landscape of investment opportunities.Topics Covered:The vision and mission behind PazalabsThe role of AI in asset managementDifferences between CeFi and DeFiThe importance of liquidity in global marketsFuture trends in real-world asset tokenizationDon't miss this opportunity to learn from a pioneer in the blockchain space!When you purchase through these links, we may earn a commission. ____

For all those who missed out on London, see you in Miami next week!Notion, the knowledge work decacorn, has been building AI tooling since before ChatGPT, with many hits from Q&A in 2023 and unified AI in 2024 and Meeting Notes in 2025. At the end of their last Make user conference, Ryan Nystrom teased Notion 3.0's Custom Agents - and they are finally embracing the Agent Lab playbook!Sarah Sachs and Simon Last of Notion join us for a deep dive into how Notion built Custom Agents, why it took years and multiple rebuilds to get right, and what it means to turn a productivity tool into an agent-native system of record for enterprise work.We go inside the product, engineering, evals, pricing, and org design decisions behind one of the most ambitious AI product efforts in software today — from early failed tool-calling experiments in 2022 to agent harnesses, progressive tool disclosure, meeting notes as data capture, and the long-term vision for software factories and agentic work.We discuss:* Sarah and Simon's path to launching Notion Custom Agents, and why the feature was rebuilt four or five times before it was ready for production* Why early agent attempts failed: no tool-calling standard, short context windows, unreliable models, and too much complexity exposed to the model* The “Agent Lab” thesis: not just wrapping a model, but understanding how people collaborate and building the right product system around frontier capabilities* How Notion thinks about roadmap timing: not swimming upstream against model limitations, but also building early enough that the product is ready when the models are* Why coding agents feel like the kernel of AGI, and how Notion is thinking about “software factories” made up of agents that spec, code, test, debug, review, and maintain codebases together* How Sarah runs AI engineering at Notion (“notes from Token Town”): objective-setting over idea ownership, low-ego teams comfortable deleting their own work, and a culture designed to swarm around fast-changing opportunities* The “Simon Vortex,” company hackathons, and why security gets pulled in early rather than late* How Notion organizes AI: core AI capabilities and infrastructure, product packaging teams, and a broader company mandate that every product surface must increasingly work for both humans and agents* Why prototypes have become much easier to build internally, and how “demos over memos” changes product development inside a tool the whole company already uses every day* Notion's eval philosophy: regression tests, launch-quality evals, and “frontier/headroom” evals that intentionally only pass ~30% of the time so the company can see where model capabilities are going* What a “Model Behavior Engineer” is, and why Notion treats eval writing, failure analysis, and model understanding as a distinct function rather than just software engineering* The changing role of software engineers in the age of coding agents, and why the new job looks less like typing code and more like supervising a rigorous outer system of agents, PRs, and verification loops* How the “software factory” should work: specs, self-verification, bug flows, subagents, and minimizing human intervention while preserving the invariants that matter* A live walkthrough of a Notion Custom Agent handling coworking space tenant applications by triaging email, enriching applicants with web search, and writing structured data into a Notion database* How agents compose inside Notion: shared databases as primitives, agents invoking other agents, “manager agents” supervising dozens of specialized agents, and memory implemented simply as pages and databases* Notion's take on MCP vs CLI: why Simon is bullish on CLI's self-debugging nature, where MCP still makes sense, and how Sarah thinks about capability, determinism, permissioning, and pricing alignment* The evolution of Notion's internal agent harness: from early JavaScript coding agents, to custom XML, to Markdown and SQL-like abstractions, to tool definitions, progressive disclosure, and a much shorter system prompt* Why Notion cares about teaching “the top of the class,” building for sophisticated operators rather than abstracting away too much capability for everyone* How agent setup works today: agents that can configure themselves, inspect their own failures, and edit their own instructions — with guardrails around permissions* How Notion prices Custom Agents: credits as an abstraction over tokens, model type, serving tier, web search, and future sandbox costs; why usage-based pricing was necessary; and how “auto” tries to match the right model to the right task* Why Notion is not eager to train a foundation model, where they do fine-tune and optimize today, and why retrieval/ranking is one of the most important investment areas as more searches come from agents rather than humans* Why Meeting Notes became one of Notion's strongest growth loops: not just as transcription, but as high-signal data capture that powers search, custom agents, follow-up workflows, and the broader system of record for company collaboration* Why Notion is more interested in being the place where collaboration data lives than in building hardware themselves — and how wearables or other capture devices may eventually feed into that systemSarah SachsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahmsachsX: https://x.com/sarahmsachsSimon LastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-last-41404140X: https://x.com/simonlastFull Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00:00 Introduction and launching Notion Custom Agents* 00:01:17 Why Notion rebuilt agents four or five times* 00:03:35 Building for where models are going, not just where they are* 00:05:32 The Agent Lab thesis, wrappers, and product intuition* 00:08:07 User journeys, leadership, and low-ego AI teams* 00:13:16 The Simon Vortex, hackathons, and bringing security in early* 00:16:39 Team structure, demos over memos, and building for agents* 00:20:25 Evals, Notion's Last Exam, and the Model Behavior Engineer role* 00:27:37 Evals as an agent harness and the changing role of software engineers* 00:30:42 The software factory: specs, verification, and agent workflows* 00:32:18 Live demo: a custom agent for coworking space applications* 00:35:08 Composing agents, manager agents, and memory as pages* 00:38:15 Notion Mail, Gmail, native integrations, and tools* 00:39:43 MCP vs CLI and the cost of capability* 00:44:13 When Notion uses MCP vs building its own integrations* 00:47:43 The history of Notion's agent harness rebuilds* 00:55:35 Power users, public tools, and the setup agent* 00:58:01 Self-fixing agents, permissions, and “flippy”* 01:01:13 Pricing, credits, and choosing the right model automatically* 01:09:01 Why Notion isn't training its own frontier model* 01:14:07 Retrieval, ranking, and search built for agents* 01:17:27 Meeting Notes as data capture and workflow automation* 01:21:18 Wearables, hardware, and Notion as the system of record* 01:23:45 OutroTranscript[00:00:00] Alessio: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Latent Space podcast. This is Alessio founder of Kernel Labs and I'm joined by swyx, editor of the Latent Space.[00:00:11] swyx: Hello. Hello. We're back in the beautiful studio that, uh, Alessio has set up for us with Simon and Sarah from Notion. Welcome.[00:00:18] Sarah Sachs: Thanks for having us.[00:00:19] Alessio: Thanks for having us. Yeah.[00:00:20] swyx: Congrats on the launch recently the custom agents, finally it's here. How's it feel?[00:00:26] Sarah Sachs: We ship things slowly. So it had been in Alpha for a little bit and at the point at which is it's an alpha, um, there's a group of people that are making sure it's ready for prod, and then there's a group of people working on the next thing.So sometimes some of these launches are a bit delayed satisfaction, so it's quite nice to remind yourself all the work you did because we do have a habit of like. Being two or three milestones ahead. Uh, just ‘cause you have to be, you know, you can't get complacent. Um, but it's been great that people understood how this is helpful.And I think that's just easier in general building AI tools today than it was two, three years ago. People kind of get it and so that user education, um, there's just, it was our most successful launch in terms of free trials and converting people and things like that. It was really successful, so yeah.But there's a lot to build.[00:01:12] swyx: Making it free for three months helps.[00:01:16] Sarah Sachs: Yep.[00:01:17] Simon Last: It was definitely super exciting for me because it's probably the fourth or fifth time that we rebuilt that.[00:01:22] swyx: Yes.[00:01:23] Simon Last: And I mean,[00:01:24] swyx: you've been building this since like 20, 22.[00:01:26] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, like, it was even right when we got access to like GPT four in late 20 22, 1 of the first ideas we had is like, oh, okay, let's make an agent that I, we used the word assistant at the time, there wasn't really the word, the word agent yet, but, oh, we'll give an access to all the tools the notion can do, and then it, we run in the background like, like do work for us.And then we just tried that many times and it just. Was too early. Um,[00:01:48] swyx: I need to force you to like double click on that. What is too early? What didn't work?[00:01:52] Sarah Sachs: We were fine to, like, before function calling came out. We were trying to fine tune with the Frontier Labs and with fireworks, like a function calling model on notion functions.This is right when I joined. I joined because, um, we needed a manager as Simon was needed to be able to go on vacation. So, uh, that's, that's around when I joined, so you can speak much more to it.[00:02:11] Simon Last: Yeah, we did partnerships with both philanthropic and open AI at different times, uh, to try to, at the time the, I mean, when we first tried, there wasn't even a constant of like tools yet.We, we sort of designed our own like, like tool calling framework and then we tried to fine tune the models to, uh, to use it over multiple turns. Um, and because it, it didn't work well out the box, I think. Yeah. The models are just too dumb and the context thing was also way too short.[00:02:37] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:02:37] Simon Last: Um, and yeah, we just kind of banged our head against it for a long time.Uh, unfortunately it was always like, there was always like sort of. Glimmers that it was working, but um, it never felt quite robust enough to be like a useful, delightful thing. Um, until I would say, uh, the big unlock was probably like Sonic 3.6 or seven, uh, early last year. And that's when we started working on our agent, which we shipped last year.Um, and then, and then uh, uh, custom agents, kinda a similar capability and that, that one just took longer because we, we just wanted to get the reliability up a lot higher. ‘cause it's actually running in the background.[00:03:14] Sarah Sachs: And the product interface of like permissions and understanding, you know, this custom agent is shared in a Slack channel with X group of people and has access to documents that are surfaced to Y group of people.And the intersect experts, Y might not be whole. And so how do you build the product around making sure administrators understand that permissioning took multiple swings.[00:03:35] Alsesio: Everything is hard back at the end of the day. Yeah. I'm curious, like when the models are not working, how do you inform the product roadmap of like, okay, we should probably build, expecting the models to be better at some reasonable pace, but at the same time we need to, you know, you had a lot of customers in 2022.It's not like you were a new company or like no user base.[00:03:54] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean I think there's always the balance of, you know, like you want to be a GI pilled and thinking ahead and building for where things are going. Uh, but also you wanna be like shipping useful things. And so we always try to like, like keep a balance there.You know, we. We try to take clear, like a portfolio approach. You know, we're always working on multiple projects and, and we're always trying to work on, you know, maintaining things where that have already shipped, like, like shipping new things that are like eminently working well and make them really good.And, and then we wanna always have a few projects that are a little bit crazy. Um,[00:04:23] Alsesio: and what are the a GI peel projects that you have today? I'm curious about, uh, you don't have to share exactly what you're working on, but I'm curious what are things today that maybe in 18 months people will be like, oh, obviously this was gonna work[00:04:35] Sarah Sachs: 18 months.[00:04:37] Alsesio: Yeah, 18 months is, you know,[00:04:37] Sarah Sachs: it's a long time and Yeah. Yeah.[00:04:39] Simon Last: I mean, there's a number of things happening. I think one thing that's becoming more clear is I think like, like, uh, coding agents are the kernel of EGI, sort of, everything is a coding agent. Mm-hmm. I think that's, that's sort of one, one direction.Um, and then, yeah, the exciting thing about that is sort of your agent can sort of bootstrap its own software and capabilities and actually debug and maintain them. And so yeah, we're, we're, we're thinking a lot about that. And then, yeah, like, like another category of things that I'm, I'm really excited about is like, uh, we call the software factory also.People are using this, uh, this, this sort of word. Um, basically it just means can you create sort of like a, as automated as possible, a workflow for developing debugging. Mm-hmm. Merging, reviewing, and maintaining a code base and a service where there's a bunch of agents working together inside, and like, like how does that work?[00:05:28] Sarah Sachs: If you think back to your initial question, like, why did this take so long? I think something,[00:05:32] swyx: I didn't say that, but Yes. Okay. Go ahead.[00:05:34] Sarah Sachs: Why, what, what changed over the three and half years of trying[00:05:37] swyx: it? Exactly. Right. Because most people always say like, it didn't work yet. Then reasoning models came, then it worked.I was like, okay, let's go a little[00:05:43] Sarah Sachs: bit. That's, I mean, that's part of it, but I think the other part of it that I actually think is really what will set notion apart for every new capability is we have like. Two skills that are crucial when it comes to frontier capabilities. One is not letting yourself swim upstream.So like quickly realizing if you're just pressing against model capabilities versus not exposing the model to the right information, not having the right infrastructure set up. That and of itself is the skill of intuition. And the second is to see, okay, you're not swimming upstream. Which direction is the river flowing and what is like, how do we think ahead about the product and start building it even if it's not great yet, so that when it is there, we're ready for it.Right? And like those can sometimes feel like counterintuitive things. Like we can be trying to fine tune a tool calling model when they don't exist yet. And that the trick is to not do that for too long, but realize that there was something there. And we've had a lot of things which like, um, we're just like not swimming in the right direction with the streams.I think we had multiple versions of transcription before we got meeting notes, right? Oh, I gotta talk[00:06:39] swyx: about that. Yeah.[00:06:40] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. Um, and so. I, I, I think that like we, we really closely partner with the Frontier Labs on capabilities and we also have to have strong conviction on, as those capabilities move.Notion is about being the best place for you to collaborate and do your work. And how does that narrative change if the way that we work changes?Yeah.[00:06:58] swyx: Yeah. You told me you were a fan of the Agent Lab thesis, and this is, this is kind of it, right?[00:07:02] Sarah Sachs: Right. I show that thesis to so many candidates. Like I have it as like micro chrome autofill.Um, at this point, like it's one of my most visitations[00:07:10] swyx: because like, is this the, here's why you should work in notion and not open, open eye. I, it's like,[00:07:14] Sarah Sachs: here's, here's what's different about it.[00:07:16] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:16] Sarah Sachs: And here's why. It's not just a rapper. I actually think more and more people understand it's not just a wrapper.[00:07:21] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:22] Sarah Sachs: Um, and by the way, like in the beginning, parts of what we build are wrappers on functionality. That works well, of course, but that's not really the most, um. I would say that's not the product that, that drives revenue. And that's not necessarily always what users need.[00:07:35] swyx: I mean, you know, notion is the AWS wrapper, but like the, the wrapper is very beautiful and like very, very well polished.So[00:07:40] Sarah Sachs: like the analogy,[00:07:41] swyx: like[00:07:42] Sarah Sachs: the analogy that I've been coming back to his Datadog in AWS[00:07:45] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:46] Sarah Sachs: So, uh, Datadog could not exist with, without cloud storage. Right. That it's kind of fundamental that that works. Um, and AWS has like a CloudWatch product, but Datadog is an expert on understanding how people want observability on the products they launch.And we're experts in understanding how people wanna collaborate, and that's really where our expertise lies.[00:08:04] swyx: Totally.[00:08:04] Sarah Sachs: Um, regardless of the tools that we use,[00:08:07] Alsesio: I'm kind of curious how you think about implicit versus explicit expertise. I feel like Datadog is half and half implicit and explicit. It's like they understand across markets and industries what engineering teams usually look for.With notion, it's almost like more of the expertise is at the edge because you as a platform, you're like so horizontal that the end user is not really the same. Mm-hmm. Like with Datadog, the end user is always like, yeah, an engineering lead, a kinda like SRE related person with notion. It can be anything.So I'm curious how you put that expertise into a product versus, you know, obviously it, WS cannot build notion. It's, that doesn't quite work in this case, but[00:08:44] Simon Last: it's, it's a little bit differently shaped. I think, you know, a classic vertical SaaS, like the data is kind of like that. They understand their individual customer very deeply.It's kinda a narrow slice, um, notion has always been super horizontal. And our, our task has always been to sort of balance these two somewhat opposing forces of like, we're listening to our customers and what they want us to build. It's a broad slice. And then also we're thinking about like, okay, how do we decompose what they want into, uh, nice primitives that are, that are really nice to use and we'll, we'll get us like as much bang for the buck as possible.And then, you know. Maintain the whole system, make it all like, like super clean and nice to use.[00:09:22] Sarah Sachs: We still have user journeys. I mean, we still focus on like core. I actually think the failure of our team is when we focus too much on what are cools that are, what are tools that are[00:09:31] Simon Last: mm-hmm.[00:09:31] Sarah Sachs: Cool tools. I actually think that's when we make have the least velocity because you still need some sort of focus on a user journey.So like for instance, we'll all sit down every Friday and look at the P 99 of like the most token exhaustive custom agent transcript and just look at why it didn't do well and cut a bunch of tasks. Like we still focus on like, this has, like this should work. Email triaging should work. Mm-hmm. Right. And similarly, like when we're talking about before building, um, chatting, um, before we started filming about, okay, how can I do PDF export?Well that's functionality that then merits. Maybe we should build a tool that has access to a computer sandbox in a file system and the ability to write code. Right? Right. Um, but it's because we're thinking about the fact that our users to do their, to do their daily work, need to export PDFs, not because we're like, Hmm, I think a computer tool could be cool.Like, let's just see what happens. Mm-hmm. Like we, we have to focus on some user journeys, otherwise we just don't have like, enough strategy to, to prioritize.[00:10:29] swyx: I think there's a lot of like really strong opinions that you've had. Do you have like sort of like a towel of Sarah Sachs? Like, you know, like what, how do you run your team?Like I feel like you just have accumulated all these strong opinions. Obviously part, part of this is your, your token town thing.[00:10:43] Sarah Sachs: I think the TAs working with Service X is, um, you'd have to, it depends who you ask. Um, I think it depends if you're on my team or a partner Right. Or a vendor.[00:10:54] swyx: Yeah. There other people want to run their teams the way that you're Yeah.You're like bringing these things. And then also similarly, uh, Simon, when you did the custom agents demo, you had like, well, we've been using custom agents and here's the super long list of everything that we do. No humans ever read it. Right? That's what you said. I was like,[00:11:07] Sarah Sachs: yeah. So I think for, for me, um, something that I learned very quickly and became very comfortable with was that my job was not to be the ideas per person or the technical expert.My job was to make it so that everybody understood the objective, had a resource to help prioritize what they should work on, and had an avenue to prioritize what they thought was important. And I think that's true with all, all leadership, but I think especially on the AI team. Almost all of our best ideas come from prototypes, from people that have a cool idea because they saw a user problem, and it's a huge disservice if all of those ideas have to pass, like the sniff test of what me and a product partner or Simon and Ivan decided were the direction, right?Because a lot of what we're doing is leaning into capabilities, so. I think that's the first thing is like, I don't really view like the role of engineering leadership as like, uh, hierarchical, nor has it ever been, but especially now, like very willing to change direction based on, um, like proof is in the pudding.Yeah. And like, and I think we have rebuilt our harness three or four times. And when you do that, then the second rule of engineering leadership is like you need to build a team that's comfortable deleting their own code and is very low ego and is driven by what's best for the company. And, um, doesn't write design docs because they think it's their promotion packet.Right. And that's a culture that notion had long before I joined, but like our willingness to just swarm on different problems and um, redo things that we've built before because something has changed. Like, there's a lot of friction that can happen at companies when you do that. And it doesn't happen at Notion.And because it doesn't happen when new people join. Like they don't wanna be the ones that are saying, we shouldn't do this. I wrote that code. So then it's, you know, you, you create a culture that everyone thoughts and that culture comes directly, I think from Simon and Ivan though, um, because they're very open-minded.[00:12:50] swyx: Anything that you,[00:12:50] Simon Last: you'd add? I'm not a manager, like, like, like Sarah is. Um, a lot of my role is really to try to think a little bit ahead, make sure that we're, we're building on the right capabilities and then like the prototyping stuff. And yeah, it's really, really critical to always just be starting again.It's like, okay, this is new thing. What does this mean? What if we just rethought everything or wrote everything? And so I, I'm, I'm basically just doing that in a loop every six months.[00:13:16] swyx: Yeah. Do you believe in internal hackathons for this stuff?[00:13:19] Sarah Sachs: I think there's like two different versions. So one is like, we just have a, a, a solid bench of senior engineers that come and go on what we call the Simon Vortex and Productionizing what we built, right?Because when you're in the Simon Vortex, the velocity is super high. The direction changes daily, and it's meant to be like the equivalent of a SC Works lab. We don't need to do hackathons for that. We need to have senior engineers that we trust to come in and out of those projects. For instance, like management boundaries are really loose.Like you report to him, but you work for her right now. Yeah. That's something that when we hire managers, it's important they don't care about because we tend to form more structures. Yeah. Don't be too[00:13:54] swyx: territorial.[00:13:55] Sarah Sachs: We form more. It's after we ship things, not not before, just historically. Um, the second thing is we do have companywide hackathons.Actually we just had our demos day for the hackathon we had last week this morning. That's more for people that aren't directly working on the project, feeling like they have the time to pause and learn how to make themselves more productive or how they would use notion custom agents to build something.Or part of the hackathon was actually encouraging everyone across the company to build their own agentic tool loop, calling from scratch. Follow like an every blog post on how to do what I think because we want[00:14:26] swyx: just with the compound engineering one. Yeah.[00:14:28] Sarah Sachs: We want everyone to use cloud code in the company or whatever the coding agent they please and understand that fundamental.So we set aside a day and a half. We're all leadership, encourage everyone on their teams across the company to do it. So we have hackathons like that. I would say like kind of facetiously, like everything we build is a little bit like a hackathon until it graduates and puts on big boy pants and as a product ops rollout leader and has a assigned data scientists and stuff like that,[00:14:54] swyx: security review enterprise stuff,[00:14:56] Sarah Sachs: actually security reviews one of the things that we bring in first because it just slows us down way more and, um, causes a lot of tension and they build better product if they're involved early.So, um, that is probably the first person to get involved in something that's the[00:15:09] swyx: right PR approved answer.[00:15:10] Sarah Sachs: No, but it's not just PR approved. It like, um, um, it's[00:15:13] swyx: actually real. It's actually real. It's like, um, I'm just saying scar[00:15:15] Sarah Sachs: tissue.[00:15:15] swyx: Yeah,[00:15:16] Sarah Sachs: because like, you know, my background's also, I worked at Robinhood for a number of years.Yes. So like, uh, compliance and things like that, um, are a little bit more, you learn the hard way when it doesn't come naturally.[00:15:26] Simon Last: Yeah. I think the. The hackathon is really important for uplifting the general population, but like, if that's the only way you can build new things, you're kind of toast. I mean, it, it has to be like the daily processes, like, you know, building these new things.Um, and it has to be about, I think like, I think in the AI era a lot more leverage accumulates to the most curious and excited people. And so it's like we're all about just like activating that energy. You know, like if someone's protesting something on the weekend that they're excited about and it's important, that should be the main thing that we're doing.Yeah. Um, it's not a hackathon that we schedule once a quarter, it's just like, yeah. Daily process. Part of the culture.[00:16:02] Sarah Sachs: I mean, that's how we shift image generation and notion now. It was always this thing that would be kind of nice to have, but it wasn't really clear where that was necessarily aligned in product priorities.It'd be a lot of work. And we had someone on the database collections team, Jimmy, who was like. I really wanna do image generation for cover photos and inside notion. And we're like, if you wanna build it, like it's, do it please. Like we encourage you. We gave ‘em all the resources of working directly with Gemini and being able to like track the token usage and it working through endpoints.We gave them eval, support, everything, and then became a, a full project.[00:16:34] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:16:35] Sarah Sachs: That's why you can't have like ego as a, a leader. Like that's, that's how we work.[00:16:39] Alsesio: What's the size of the team today, both engineering and overall?[00:16:43] Sarah Sachs: I manage, uh, the team. That's what we'll call it. Core AI capabilities and infrastructure.That's about 50 people. But then we have per i partner teams that do packaging. So how it shows up in the corner chat versus custom agents versus meeting notes, that's another 30, 40 people. And, and then every team that has a product service at Notion that a user can interface with owns the tool that the agent interfaces with the editor team.The team that did CRDT for offline mode is the same team that handles how two agents, um, edit competing blocks. Mm-hmm. Right? It's the same problem. The team that built the underlying SQL engine is the same team that owns how the agent asks it to run a SQL query, and it does it performantly. And so from that regard, anyone working on product engineering is tasked with making them work for customers that are humans and agents because over time the majority of our traffic will be coming from agencies using in our interface, not humans.And so. Our objective is to make it so that the whole product org is building for agents.[00:17:40] Alsesio: Yeah. How has it changed internally? The activation bar is kind of lowered a lot. Like anybody can kind of create a prototype very, somewhat easily, especially if you're like an existing code base. Have you raised the bar on like what type of prototype people need to bring forward to gonna be taken?Not like seriously, but like, you know what I[00:17:58] Simon Last: mean? Yeah. I think the bar is lowered in many ways. Be like, one thing our, uh, our team built that is really cool is our, uh, our, our design team made a whole separate GitHub repo, uh, called the, the design Playground. And it's basically just to create a bunch of like, like helper components and you, uh, for, for quickly a throwing together UIs.And it's become like actually quite sophisticated. Like it has like an agent in there and like, uh, that's pretty fun. So like, we pretty much, like, they don't do mocks, they just make like, like full, full prototypes.[00:18:27] swyx: Here it is. It works.[00:18:28] Simon Last: They give you like a u rl. They're like, okay, all right. So we have to make the, like the real production version of that.Um, and then for engineers. A prototype looks like just making it a feature flag that actually works. Like that's sort of the bar.[00:18:39] Sarah Sachs: Something to understand that's really unique about notion. One of the reasons I joined we're super lucky is no one uses Notion in their job as much as people that work at Notion.[00:18:46] Simon Last: Of course.[00:18:47] Sarah Sachs: So I think there's very few companies, maybe if you worked on Chrome I guess, but like everything that we ship, we ship internally first and get a lot of really quick feedback. And also sometimes our dev instance is totally borked and you have to change a bunch of flags to get things done. And that's kind of like, but everyone, so people that do it ticketing, people that do supply chain procurement, recruiting, everyone is using the same instance of notion with like a lot of flags on for these prototypes people build.Um, and so we have this, Brian Levin, one of the designers on our team, I think evangelize this concept of demos over memos.[00:19:18] swyx: Ooh, too[00:19:20] Sarah Sachs: good. Um, which has been, uh, very good for building demos, and I think it's put a big pressure point on us to have really strong product conviction, because if anything can be demoed, you really need a strong filter of making sure that if you know, you're doing X amount of work, you're making the, you're, you're focusing on one tower, you're not just building a really flat hill.Right. That's actually where I think there has to be more conviction from our PMs, um, and our designers and, and well, the company really to have conviction of what journey we're going on.[00:19:52] Simon Last: But overall, I feel like it works pretty well. Like people, almost all the engineers have good enough taste to realize that like, this prototype doesn't actually make sense in the product, or, or it does.So it's not that common that I would see a prototype. It's like, oh, this makes no sense. Mm-hmm. It's like, you know, people are doing reasonable things and, and, and then it's just a matter of. Which things we build first and then often just, just figuring out how to turn it on and off. There's our, in the, in our like experimental chat ui, there's this, there's probably like, like a hundred check boxes in there.[00:20:22] Sarah Sachs: Kills me[00:20:23] Simon Last: the things you could turn on and off.[00:20:25] Sarah Sachs: Uh, but I think that, okay, so that is kind of true, Simon, but like being the person that manages the evals team, like there is a level of intensity that it adds to the platform team. So, you know, if we're gonna do image generation and notion, all of a sudden the way that we do attachments and the way that we, um, our LLM completion like cortex talks and expects tokens back and now it's getting images back.Like there's a lot of platform work that we do need to, like solidify a little bit. So sometimes it'll be in dev for a couple weeks before it makes it to prod just because we still have to like, make it robust, make it HIPAA compliant, ZDR compliant, figure out the right contracting with the vendor, whatever it is.And we need to eval it because we want the team. To still maintain what they build. That's the one thing is like if we have a bunch of prototypes, it can't just be like a small group of people that then maintain whatever end prototypes. So we have invested a lot of people in an eval and model behavior understanding teams that, we call it agent dev velocity.So your dev velocity building agents can be faster if we invest in that platform. And so we have a whole org dedicated to Asian, um, platform velocity so that you can build your own eval and then maintain it once you ship it. So if a new model release comes out and we, every[00:21:38] swyx: team maintains their own eval,[00:21:40] Sarah Sachs: we maintain the eval framework.Every team owns their own evals and a lot of them we've integrated to Optin, to ci, or we run them nightly and we have a team, uh, a custom agent that triggers to a team to look at the major failures. That's really critical because if we have like all these different surfaces now, a lot of it's on the same agent harness, so it's easier to maintain.It's just packaging of different agent harnesses, but new functionality of the agent. Let's say that like we wanna update like. Uh, you know, they deprecated, sonnet, um, four or whatever it is and we need to auto update. Are[00:22:11] swyx: they already? That's so, okay. Yeah. Actually wasn't that long ago.[00:22:14] Alsesio: Theywere[00:22:14] Alsesio: just 3.5.[00:22:15] Sarah Sachs: 3.537. Just got deprecated.[00:22:18] swyx: 3 7, 5 0.2 or, yeah. No,[00:22:20] Sarah Sachs: it's not. 5.2 is five point. Five point no. Yeah, five four is 40% more expensive than five two. So if they deprecated five two, you would hear they can, you would hear from me about that one. Um, but, uh, another conversation to have.[00:22:35] swyx: I have a cheeky evals question for you.Have you noticed any secret degradation from any of the major model providers?[00:22:40] Sarah Sachs: Secret degradation,[00:22:42] swyx: like. During the War Bay, when it's high traffic, it suddenly gets dumber.[00:22:47] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. I mean, not just between the, I mean, we definitely notice flakiness, we've definitely noticed, particularly for some providers, that things are slower during working hours and[00:22:57] swyx: there's a latency argument.Yes. Not a quality argument.[00:22:59] Sarah Sachs: No. I think the quality difference that's interesting is, um, even though companies that say they're selling the same, a, it's really into like quanti quantization, but like companies that say they're selling the same model through different vendors, whether it be through first party or Bedrock, Azure, et cetera.We do see different qualities sometimes, and that's not necessarily what's advertised.[00:23:21] swyx: Yeah. Kidney went to the point of like, if we, they shipped like this, like eval across all the providers and it was like very obvious we were secret equalizing and it was very,[00:23:28] Sarah Sachs: yeah. But[00:23:29] swyx: that's very embarrassing.[00:23:30] Sarah Sachs: You know, um, we hire Subprocess to figure that out for us.So we just wanna understand where it's regressing or where it's optimized. And sometimes we're okay with regressions that optimize latency if they're the appropriate regressions. Our job is to make sure we have the evals to understand the changes that are important to us. And even like when we're partnering with labs on pre-releasees of models, they'll send us multiple snapshots.And this is less about quantization, but more just regressions. Like they have shipped models that were not the snapshots that we wanted, and they have changed the snapshots that they shipped based on the feedback that we give. Because our feedback tends to be more enterprise work focused and not coding agent focused.And definitely those can be bummers, like, you know, uh, we know that this wasn't the version you wanted, but we'll help you make it work. I mean, we always make it work, but that definitely happens.[00:24:16] Alsesio: Yeah. Do you have, um, failing evals that you're just hoping, oh, that will have success eventually when a good model comes out?[00:24:23] Sarah Sachs: Uh, I mean, yeah. So I think. I mean, I could talk about this for 60 minutes, so I will limit myself. I think it's a real issue when people say evals and it's just like, that's quality, that's like unit, I mean, it's like saying testing. It's not just unit tests, right? So. We have the equivalent of unit test.Regression test. Those live in ci, those have to pass a certain percent, you know, within some stochastic error rate. Then we have, as you're building a product, evals of these aren't passing right now, and this is launch quality. So we have a report card and we need to, on these categories, you know, be it 80 or 90% of all of these user journeys to launch, and then what we have what we call frontier or headroom evals, where we actively wanna be at 30% pass rate.And that's actually been a effort that we took in partnership with philanthropic and OpenAI in the past maybe two or three months, because we actually hit a point where our evals were saturated and we weren't able to really give insightful feedback other than it wasn't worse. And not only is that not helpful for our partners, it's not helpful for us to understand where the stream is going.You know, going back to that analogy. And so we spent a lot of time thinking about. What notions last exam looks like, right? Mm-hmm. Not just humanities, last exam. Ooh, notions last exam. Mm-hmm. And, um, there's a lot of, you know, dreams about what that would look like. I know we've talked a lot about benchmarking, um, swix, but, uh, yeah.Notions last exam is a big thing inside the company and we have people, full-time staff to it exclusively. Mm. We have a data scientist, a model behavior engineer, and an full-time, um, evals engineer just dedicated to the evals that we pass 30% of the time.[00:25:56] swyx: What you're hiring for[00:25:57] Sarah Sachs: MBEs? I am hiring[00:25:58] swyx: What is an MBEA[00:25:59] Sarah Sachs: model?Behavior Engineer Model. Behavior engineers started with a title data specialist before I joined when they were working with Simon on like, uh, Google Sheets and like Simon just needed someone to look through Google Sheets and say, yes, no, this looks bad. This looks good. Right? And so we hired people with kind of diverse linguistics background.We had like a linguistics PhD dropout. Mm-hmm. And a Stanford ate new grad. And they're amazing. And they formed a new function basically. And over time we've built a whole team, um, with a manager who's now kind of reinventing what that role is with coding agents. So they used to be kind of manually inspecting code.Now they're primarily building agents that can write evals for themselves or LLM judges. There's a really funny day I can send you the picture where Simon, about a year and a half ago, was teaching them how to use GitHub. Um, and they're on the whiteboard and it was like, okay, I think it would be so much faster if our data specialists learned how to use GitHub and like learned how to commit these things in Dakota.And, and that was then and now I think, you know, coding has been a lot more accessible. Um, but moving forward it's this mix of like data scientist PM and prompt engineer because there's craft in understanding like even like what models can and can't do things. How do we define like that headroom? How do we define like what a good journey is?Um, is this model better or not? Why is this failing? There's some qualitative work, but then there's also like a lot of instinct and taste to it, and that's not necessarily software engineering. And so we have like very firm conviction and we have had for a number of years now that that is its own career path and we have always welcomed the misfits, so to speak.So we really firmly believe that you don't need an engineering background to be the best at this job. And that's what's quite unique about this particular role.[00:27:37] Simon Last: Yeah, this is something that I've been pretty excited about recently is we made an effort basically to treat the eval system as like an agent harness.So if you think about it, like, you know, you should be able to have an agent end-to-end, download a dataset, run an eval, iterate on a failure, debug, and, and then implement a fix. And ultimately you should be able to, you know, drive the full time process with a human sort of observing the, you know, the outer uh, system.So yeah, we went, went pretty hard on that. And that's, that's worked extremely well so far. It's like basically just to turn it into a coding agent, uh, uh, problem.[00:28:11] swyx: Your coding agent or just whatever[00:28:13] Simon Last: harness No coding agent. Yeah, code, cloud code. It should be totally general. Yeah. I think if it would be a mistake to like, like fix it on any, any particular coding agent.At the end of the day, it's just like CLI tools.[00:28:21] Sarah Sachs: It's like the same way that you would've a coding agent write the unit test. You should have a coding agent write the eval.[00:28:26] swyx: Yeah.[00:28:26] Sarah Sachs: But there's a lot of supervision in that still. We just don't believe that supervision has to come from software engineers because a lot of it is like, um, kind of you XREE and whatever, and these are the people that also triage failures and tell us where we should be investing next.[00:28:40] swyx: Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and ask a spicy question. Is there a data, there are no software engineers at Notion.[00:28:46] Simon Last: Um,[00:28:46] Sarah Sachs: what does it mean to be a software engineer?[00:28:47] swyx: Exactly.[00:28:48] Simon Last: I mean, I think the way things are going is like we're on some continuum where. If, if you look back three years ago, humans were typing all the code and then we had auto complete, you're typing list of the code.Then we had sort of like filling agents, filling lines, and now we're getting into like agents doing longer range tasks where you can debug and implement a fix and then verify it works and you know, get your, get your PR even like, like Merion deployed. I think we're sort of just moving up the abstraction ladder and then the human role becomes more about observing and maintaining the outer system.There's a string of agents flowing through, like me prs what's going off the rails. Like what do I need to approve? Is there like a learning or memory mechanism that that works? So it's kind of a hard engineering problem. There's a, you know, there's, there's a lot to do there. I think we're just sort of moving up stack[00:29:34] Sarah Sachs: the same transition machine learning engineers have made, right?Like I haven't looked at a PR curve in a while.[00:29:39] swyx: Yeah. You used to do this stuff and now, um, auto research can do it,[00:29:42] Sarah Sachs: right? Like I think it depends on what you define as a software engineer.[00:29:46] swyx: Yes. It's, that's changing for sure.[00:29:49] Sarah Sachs: I think every software engineer in notion this summer went through like this, um, sheer, um, one of our engineering leads of the company called it, like every software engineer is going through the, the, uh, identity crisis that every manager goes through, where all of a sudden they realize their ability to write code is less important than their ability to delegate in context switch.And I think that is a transition out of being a software engineer. But[00:30:12] Simon Last: yeah. Yeah, there's a critical difference to being a manager, which is that like, it is actually very deeply technical. The problem, you know, humans are very like, like, like fuzzy and you can't like treat a team of humans like a, like a rigorous system where like, you know, prs like, like flow through and can be in like a block status and then what happens when they're blocked, right.With a set of agents, you actually can do that. And, and, and I think it's actually, there's a lot of interesting technical rigor that that goes into that it's like it's a technical design problem. Ultimately.[00:30:42] Alsesio: What is the design of the software factory that you're building?[00:30:46] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think we're. Trying a lot of different things.I mean, ultimately you want to design a system that requires as little human intervention as possible, but like still maintaining the in variance that, that you care about. So yeah, we're exploring a lot different ideas there. I mean, I think I could talk about a few things I think are important there.Like, one thing I think is really important is, um, having some kind of like specification layer you can just commit marked on files. Mm-hmm. That works pretty well, but[00:31:15] swyx: it's nice to be notion man. I'm just saying like the spec, like Yeah. The natural home for specs is notion.[00:31:21] Simon Last: Yeah. Right. It can be a database of pages.Yeah. I mean, it needs to be something that is, you know, human readable and I viewable and I think that's pretty key. Another really key component is like the, the self verification loop. Yes. You need really, really good testing layers, basically. And that's a really deep, uh, uh, problem. But by getting that right, you know, and then, and then it's kinda like the workflow of like.What happens when there's a bug? How does it flow into the system? Like, is it like a subagent working on it? How does it make a PR and how does that get reviewed? And me, and then, you know, so there's like the, the flow or process.[00:31:56] swyx: Yeah. Cool. Uh, you know, one thing we did work out before you guys came in was this demo or this[00:32:01] Simon Last: agents[00:32:02] swyx: agent demo.Uh,[00:32:03] Simon Last: so every,[00:32:04] Alsesio: every time we do an episode, we try the product. Right. I don't think there's ever been an episode that I haven't tried. Yeah. Um,[00:32:11] swyx: and we, we try, try is a, a big word. Like since day one lane space has been on Notion, but this is the, this is the net new thing. Yes.[00:32:18] Alsesio: So this is for Nel Labs, which is the space we're in.So next week we're opening applications for tenants. So there's a web form, let me, we got this form done here. Uh, so, uh, before. Uh, the workflow would be I get an email, then I look at the person. It was like, should I spend time talking to this person? Then I respond, they respond back. So I build this. So the name it came up for on its own.Can you maybe h how do, how does it come up with its own name?[00:32:43] Simon Last: Yeah, that's a pretty app name. It's, it, it is just a random, it's a random, a name generator.[00:32:47] Alsesio: Oh, that's funny. It just came,[00:32:49] Simon Last: the fact that it picked that is, is kind of hilarious. I'm pretty sure it's just determined,[00:32:54] Sarah Sachs: resilient collector. I, I think I've never looked at the code for that.I've never second guessed it. I think it's kind of like a madlib situation.[00:33:00] Simon Last: Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. It's, it's totally a, a deterministic. Oh, I thought it was great. Yes. Although, although when the, if you use the AI to set itself up, it can update its own name, so. Okay. Um,[00:33:11] Sarah Sachs: how did you create it? It, did you just do[00:33:12] Alsesio: classroom?I,[00:33:13] Sarah Sachs: okay.[00:33:13] Alsesio: I did, yeah. I'll say just check my inbox for applications for a coworking space. Keep a people, so it created the database for me. Which I have here. And I guess database is like an notion table because everything is notion. Um, and then whenever um, an email comes in, like here, it just creates a new role for the person.Mm-hmm. And then it uses web search to enrich the mm-hmm. The profile. So it kind of like searches the web and it's like, this is who this person is, this is when they say they wanna move in and kind of updates everything else. This is, I mean, it's not a GI, but to me, I don't wanna do this work. So it feels like, I mean, it took me maybe like 15 minutes to set up the whole thing.Um, and I really like that most of the information should live here. You know, it is not like some other tool asking me[00:34:01] Sarah Sachs: Yeah.[00:34:01] Alsesio: To like, bring my stuff there. It's like I would've probably already created an ocean thing.[00:34:06] Sarah Sachs: Mm-hmm.[00:34:06] Alsesio: So[00:34:07] Sarah Sachs: most of our biggest use cases and gains are from. That extra layer of human involvement in the process to make it so right.And so like one of our biggest use cases is bug triaging. So if someone posts something in Slack, can you just have a custom agent that lives there that has its own routing constitution of what team this belongs to, creates a task in your task database and then posts in that Slack channel, right? Like that's like one of the first things that we built internally, I think.And it's completely changed the way that notion functions as a company. Nothing falls through, well, most things don't fall through the crack. We don't know what we don't know. But it's not replacing people, it's replacing processes.[00:34:44] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:34:44] Sarah Sachs: Right.[00:34:45] Alsesio: And I'm curious how you think about composability of these things.So the other one I was working on is like a. These filler. So whenever somebody signs up as a tenant, kind of he'll sell the lease for them. There should probably some agent that is like office manager agent mm-hmm. That can handle the request, make the lease, and then, uh, give them a ADA access to the office and all of that.How do you think about that feature?[00:35:08] Simon Last: Yeah, so I mean, there's, there's two ways you can compose. One way is by using like the data primitives. So you can, you know, you, you could give, you have one agent, uh, be writing to the database and there's another agent that's walked in the database. So that's, that's one way that they, they can coordinate that's like a little bit more decoupled and mm-hmm.Works really well. Or you, you can couple them. So I, I think it's actually not released yet. Releasing it like next week is, uh, in the settings for an agent, you can give access to invoke any other agent.[00:35:34] swyx: Hmm.[00:35:34] Simon Last: So you can have them just. Just, uh, uh, talk directly. So[00:35:37] swyx: you, was there a limit on like, number of recursions or just,[00:35:40] Simon Last: um, probably,[00:35:42] swyx: you know what I mean?Like, you can just get an infinite loop that way there's[00:35:45] Simon Last: some kind of Yeah,[00:35:46] Sarah Sachs: I think it's, there is actually a number somewhere.[00:35:49] swyx: I believe I'm just, you know, like, you're, you're, someone's gonna screw up. You[00:35:51] Simon Last: should you try to see[00:35:53] swyx: Yeah. I mean, everything's gonna be paperclips.[00:35:55] Simon Last: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but, but that's really useful.Yeah. So we, you know, like I just, I, I helped, uh, someone internally the other day, they had, they had built like over 30 custom agents for, uh, for our go to market team doing all kinds of different things. You know, for example, like researching, you know, like, like filling information about, about a customer or like, like triaging customer feedback or like, uh, something like that.Literally over 30 of them. And, and then he, and then he even made like a database of all the agents and then he is like, okay, and, and now I'm getting 70, over 70 notifications per day with just the agents are blocked on various things. Uh, and then I was like, oh, okay, cool. You know, the obvious thing to do there is to make a manager agent,[00:36:32] Sarah Sachs: right?[00:36:33] Simon Last: That's gonna sort of blocks be another abstraction layer in between your, your, uh, uh, 30 agents. Uh, so yeah, we, we send out with like a manager agent and then has access to invoke all the other agents and it's sort of like, like watching and observing them and then it sort of, it just creates a layer of abstraction.So instead of 70 notifications per day, it's like, like five. And then, and then the manager agent can help like, uh, debug and fix any problems with the,[00:36:54] swyx: does this is a concept of like an inbox or something like piece, you're basically saying that they can message each other?[00:37:00] Simon Last: Yeah.[00:37:01] Sarah Sachs: Well[00:37:01] swyx: they use the system of record, which, which is[00:37:02] Sarah Sachs: notion, so we[00:37:03] Simon Last: actually, yeah, we didn't make any special concepts at all.[00:37:06] swyx: They're interested to the motion notifications that I would've got,[00:37:09] Sarah Sachs: they can just like write a task to a database that the other agent's task to listening to, or they can actually call a web book to the agent, like they can just add the agent. Okay.[00:37:17] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, this is something that, that we're still working on.I, I think we, you know, like, like generally, generally the way we do these things is, you know, you first make it possible, maybe like a sort of janky way. So I, I, I think the way I set ‘em up is like, you know, we created like a new database that was sort of like issues mm-hmm. That the custom agents were, were experiencing, and then gave them all access to file an issue and then the manager has access to, to read the issues.Um, and that works pretty well, essentially like, like give it its own like internal issue tracker just for the agents. And then, you know, if that becomes a, a concept that seems useful, generally maybe we will think of how to package it in. But I mean, generally we try to just keep it to composing the primitive if we can.You know, another example of this is we have no built-in memory concept. Memory is, is just pages and databases. And so if you wanna give a memory, just give it a page and give it. Edit access to that page and the[00:38:03] swyx: human can edit it. Agent can edit[00:38:04] Simon Last: it. Yeah. And so that works, that pattern works extremely well on it.And you know, depending this case, you can have it be just a page or it could be an entire database with, you know, or, you know, I can have sub pages is is pretty on what you can do with that.[00:38:15] Alsesio: So when I was setting this up, uh, I connected my inbox and it was like, do you wanna use Gmail or Notion Mail? And I'm like, I don't wanna use Eater, I just want you to do it.I'm curious how you think about, you know, notion, mail, notion, calendar, all of these kind of ui ux interfaces, full stack[00:38:29] Simon Last: notion.[00:38:30] Alsesio: Yeah. When like at the same time you have the agents abstracting them away from you in a way, you know, how do you spend like the product calories so to speak?[00:38:37] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty important that you don't have to use, not your mail to connect to the mail capability.So we can just connect to Gmail or, or whatever you want, uh, to use. And we're thinking of the mail service as being really great to the extent that it's really agent built, right? So maybe the mail app is just sort of a prepackaged agent that helps you automate your, your inbox.[00:39:00] Alsesio: Yeah, the auto labeling is great.Think[00:39:03] Sarah Sachs: the, when we, um, integrate with Gmail for instance, we have a series of tools available that are available via MCP or API to Gmail. When we integrate with Notion Mail, we have the Notion Mail engineering team to build us the, um, exact right tools that optimize latency, optimize performance and quality.They own that quality. Um, there's product leads there. They're directly thinking about the user problems that happen in mail. So it tends to be when we build integrations and connections, we build natively first. Um, and then think about, um, extending them generally just because it's also easier. Mm-hmm. Um, um, to build natively first.Um, so that tends to be how we phase things out.[00:39:43] swyx: Talking about integrations, you prompted me, so I gotta ask. M-C-P-C-L-I. What's going on? What's the[00:39:48] Simon Last: Yeah. Opinion. I think, I mean, I'm, I'm definitely bullish and excited about cli. I think there's a few really cool things about cli. So one really cool thing is like, um, is that it's in the terminal environment, so it gets a bunch of extra power.So it, you know, for example, it can like, like paginating and cursor through like long outputs. Um, and it has a progressive disclosure inherently. Uh, so, you know, you don't see all the tools at once. It's just, you see the CLI wrapper and you can like use the, the help commands and, and, and read files. And then I think the most important thing that's, that's super cool is that there, it's also inherently a, a bootstrapped.So if there's an issue, uh, the agent can debug and fix itself within the same environment that it uses the tool.[00:40:30] swyx: Mm.[00:40:30] Simon Last: Right. Like, you know, I think I saw a tweet this morning. Someone said, you know, my agent didn't have a browser, so I asked it to make all a browser tool and within a hundred lines of code, it gave itself a little browser, like, like wrapping the, the, the chromium API, um.That's pretty incredible. And then if there was a bug, it would just immediately try to fix it. Mm-hmm. Right. On the other hand, if you use an, you know, if you use like of, of the Chrome dev tools, MCP, I've had this issue where like, like sometimes the transport gets like messed up. If it gets messed up, the agent has no way to fix itself.It, it no longer has a browser, it's, it's not broken. Right. I think that's, that's pretty fundamental, but I would say like a lot of the, the bad things about it can be fixed. Uh, so I think like, as a progressive disclosure, that can be fixed with, with right harness. Like, it, it obviously doesn't make sense to show it all the tools all the time.That's not really inherent to the MCP protocol. It's just like how you wrap it and use it.[00:41:16] swyx: There's many poorly built MCPs because we didn't know.[00:41:19] Simon Last: Yeah, yeah. I mean it was just early, like, like the obvious thing is, uh, you know, to start with is, is to just show it all the tools and it's like, okay, now we have a hundred tools.Yeah. And like the tool calling actually works. So let's of[00:41:28] swyx: your success[00:41:29] Simon Last: give it a way to like, like filter to source the tools. So yeah, I would say like broadly speaking, I'm really bullish on cli. I'm still bullish on CPS and in a certain environment. I think in, in particular, CP is really great for when you want sort of like a narrow, lightweight agent.I think there's, there's definitely a lot of use cases where, where you don't want like a full coding agent with a compute run time. And also you want it to be like more tightly permissioned. MCP inherently has a really strong permission model, like all you can do is call the tools. A CLI is a little bit murkier.It's like, can I access the, if PI token are you, like, properly sort of like re-encrypt the token so it can't like exfiltrate it, it introduce a lot of like, like new issues, which are. Real and hard to solve. And MCP is just like the dumb simple thing that works and it that it's pretty good.[00:42:12] Sarah Sachs: I'll add two more perspectives, not from it working well for Notion, but how notion like commits to both platforms.Notion is dedicated to being the best system of record for where people do their enterprise work. So we will always support our MCP and so far as other people are using cps, right? So regardless of our perspective, we've put a lot of effort into our MCP and we have a fantastic team that we're building, um, to do more there.And the second thing I'll say, I think, um, we all think a lot, but lately I've been thinking a lot about making sure there's a value alignment and pricing, um, with capability.[00:42:43] swyx: Literally our next question[00:42:44] Sarah Sachs: and. Needing language to execute deterministic tasks feels wasteful and requiring on a language model to interface with third party providers seems wasteful for tasks that don't require it.And particularly because our custom agents are using usage-based pricing. We think of pricing as like the barrier of entry for use of our product, and we're quite committed to making sure that it's not wasteful. Um, not just because it's a bad deal for our customers, but it's also bad business. We wanna have as many buyers, like there's a, there's an elasticity of demand and so if we can have our agents properly execute code that calls on CLI deterministically, it's a one-time cost, right?Versus constantly having a language model integrate with an MCP over and over and over and paying those like repeated token fees and it's happening outside the cash window, then you're paying for it over and over and over and it's just kind of unnecessary and less deterministic when it doesn't have to be.[00:43:36] Alessio: Yeah, the open-endedness I think is like, the main thing is like, well, if I go write code to just call an API, I would never use an MCP. But then you need an NCP sometimes when you know what to call, but you don't want it to restart versus like, I think the it built a browser from scratch is like, it's great when you're doing it on your own, but like if your customers were having your AI write a browser from scratch every time and you had to pay the token cost of that, yeah.You'd be like, no, no. The Chrome dev tools CP is actually pretty great. Just use that. I'm curious, how do you make that decision? Like should it be. Just straight API call very narrow. Should it be an MCP? Should it be super open-ended?[00:44:10] Sarah Sachs: Do you mean for when we ship notion capabilities or when we add capabilities to[00:44:13] Alessio: notion[00:44:14] Sarah Sachs: AI or,[00:44:14] Alessio: I mean, you might have a capability that the only way to do is an open-ended agent, like an agent with a coding sandbox.[00:44:21] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. In Notion ai they're not explicit, not We also ship an MCP.[00:44:24] Alsesio: Yeah. Yeah. In B,[00:44:25] Sarah Sachs: yeah.[00:44:26] Alsesio: Internally. Okay. Like is there ever a discussion of like, we're not gonna ship it because we're not able to tie it down? Or are you happy to just like,[00:44:33] Sarah Sachs: um, no. I mean, there are a lot of things where we choose not to use MCP because we wanna add more high touch to quality.I think search an agent to find is like the largest instance of that, where we have. Um, slack and linear and Jira search and notion that is not using necessarily the search MCP functionality that is provided by those companies. And that's because it's quite critical we think, to how our agent trajectories work is for us to have a little bit more control on the functionality of the search journey.And so it usually comes from quality and there's a long tail of things and that's why we built an MCP client or an MCP server, excuse me, so that people can connect whatever they want. There's that long tail, right. But we, for search particularly, I would say that's like the primary entry point, but there are other connections as well that it's a little bit of secret sauce a

Although running your studio may feel all-consuming (I get it!), don't neglect to keep an eye on how the fast-evolving fitness industry landscape ultimately can impact your day-to-day. Get food for thought on the global trends reshaping the sector in Episode 725: Live from The HFA Show 2026: Lise Kuecker and Emma Barry, CEO & Founder of Trouble Global.  Influencer power: online personalities and audiences driving opportunities Merging models: boutiques, big box and digital morphing into a new ecosystem Price pressure: budget-friendly concepts resulting in more sustainable economics Mastery matters: declining coaching quality means certifications/training must level up Competition challenges: differentiation and owning your experience are critical From AI to GLP-1s to market saturation, we're witnessing massive acceleration. Understand the shifts, the results and how to adapt in Episode 725. Follow Emma Barry on Instagram.  Catch you there, Lise   PS: Join 2,000+ studio owners who've decided to take control of their studio business and build their freedom empire. Subscribe HERE and join the party! www.studiogrow.co www.linkedin.com/company/studio-growco/

We are absolutely spiralling today after Dan dropped a bomb about his granddad that none of us were ready for. We dive deep into the science of when your body actually stops growing (bad news for some of us) and Meg recounts a "near-death" experience in Amsterdam that resulted in the most unhinged 45-minute voice note you’ll ever hear. You aren't ready for the "deathbed" requests she made for Guy. 00:25 – Dan’s granddad story and the 18-year growth rule. 02:15 – New Zealand's work-life balance vs. the Netherlands. 03:40 – Meg’s Amsterdam "muffin" disaster and the death voice note. 06:50 – Clint’s accidental "white stuff" experience at an after-party. 08:10 – Merging consciousness: What do our partners actually think? 10:15 – Meg’s "Burn Book" of Dan’s most offensive off-air comments. 13:45 – The $50k fuel "Fast Pass" keyword revealed.

2. Anatol Lieven explores Ukraine's new business model selling drone expertise to the Gulf. He notes the merging of global conflicts, Russia's intelligence support for Iran, and China's cautious but influential economic role. (2)1574

Adam, Joanna, and Zach are joined by VinePair contributing editor Dave Infante to discuss a spate of news regarding the wholesale sector, from Southern Glazer's expanding ownership of AB InBev distributorships to further moves by Reyes Beverage Group to take over states from Republic National Distributing Company. Does RBG really have interest in becoming a major player in wine distribution? Why does Southern want in on the beer and RTD business? Do we even have antitrust laws anymore? Please remember to subscribe to, rate, and review The VinePair Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your episodes, and send any questions, comments, critiques, or suggestions to podcast@vinepair.com. Thanks for listening, and cheers!Zach is reading: New Report Ranks Most Popular Spirits Brands for Shots on American MenusJoanna is reading: Martini Madness 2026Adam is reading: At Banshee, Jen Murphy Goes All-In on Martinis, Guinness, and Neighborhood HospitalityInstagram: @adamteeter, @jcsciarrino, @zgeballe, @vinepair Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.