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This episode is being rereleased as part of our Top 5 Episodes of 2022 Countdown! Bio: Steensma Thomas D. Steensma, Ph.D., is a health psychologist, principal investigator and part of the outpatient management team at the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria at Amsterdam UMC, The Netherlands. Trained as a child and adolescent psychologist, his clinical work is focused on the counseling and treatment of people of all ages with gender incongruence and Differences in Sex Development (DSD). As principal investigator, his research lines are focused on psychosexual development, gender identity development and treatment evaluation of youth with gender incongruence. Over the years, he has published over 50 peer reviewed articles in international journals and several book chapters in close collaboration with prominent scientists in the field of gender and sexology. He has co-supervised several Ph.D. and master students. His recent scientific work is focused on understanding the developments in our field focusing on the change in observed sex ratios and the influence of media attention on gender referrals and understanding the processes and factors involved in non-binary gender identity formation. He is currently part of the working group for the text revision of the DSM-5 chapter on Gender Dysphoria. In the development of the 8th version of the Standards of Care of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH), he is part of two working groups: Assessment and Therapeutic Approaches of Non-Binary People and Assessment, Support and Therapeutic Approaches of Children. Bio: de Vries Annelou de Vries is a child and adolescent psychiatrist and full staff member in the dept of child and adolescent psychiatry working at the Amsterdam UMC. Annelou de Vries is leading the Child Psychiatry Department of the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria of the Amsterdam UMC. She is president elect of the European Professional Association of Transgender Health (EPATH) . She is co-chair of the adolescent chapter of the Standards of Care revision of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH). At present, her lines of research focus on 1) the co-occurrence of autism and gender dysphoria, 2) capacity for informed consent of transgender adolescents, 3) long term follow up of transgender adolescence into middle adulthood, 4) sexual development of transgender adolescents, 5) shared decision making in transgender care, and 6) pathways in gender identity exploration and affirmation. The reason this interview is so important is bc the concept of puberty blockers originated with these two researchers (along w/ cohen kettenis.) We talk about patient zero and the 22 year follow up w/ this person. We get into the nitty gritty details about the 2 studies on which all puberty blocker treatment is based: we ask why they selected certain methods, talked about eligibility criteria, and the 15 participants who didn't make it into the final study. We even touch on Jazz Jennings, social media, ROGD and detransition. This conversation felt, to us at least, like we barely scratched the surface: we were frankly left with more questions than answers, which we are so eager to talk about in our post series analysis. You'll probably notice the vast differences between the perspectives of these researchers and of myself and Stella, but...
The reason this interview is so important is bc the concept of puberty blockers originated with these two researchers (along w/ cohen kettenis.) We talk about patient zero and the 22 year follow up w/ this person. We get into the nitty gritty details about the 2 studies on which all puberty blocker treatment is based: we ask why they selected certain methods, talked about eligibility criteria, and the 15 participants who didn't make it into the final study. We even touch on Jazz Jennings, social media, ROGD and detransition. This conversation felt, to us at least, like we barely scratched the surface: we were frankly left with more questions than answers, which we are so eager to talk about in our post series analysis. You'll probably notice the vast differences between the perspectives of these researchers and of myself and Stella, but nonetheless it was a productive and fascinating conversation. Bio: Steensma Thomas D. Steensma, Ph.D., is a health psychologist, principal investigator and part of the outpatient management team at the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria at Amsterdam UMC, The Netherlands. Trained as a child and adolescent psychologist, his clinical work is focused on the counseling and treatment of people of all ages with gender incongruence and Differences in Sex Development (DSD). As principal investigator, his research lines are focused on psychosexual development, gender identity development and treatment evaluation of youth with gender incongruence. Over the years, he has published over 50 peer reviewed articles in international journals and several book chapters in close collaboration with prominent scientists in the field of gender and sexology. He has co-supervised several Ph.D. and master students. His recent scientific work is focused on understanding the developments in our field focusing on the change in observed sex ratios and the influence of media attention on gender referrals and understanding the processes and factors involved in non-binary gender identity formation. He is currently part of the working group for the text revision of the DSM-5 chapter on Gender Dysphoria. In the development of the 8th version of the Standards of Care of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH), he is part of two working groups: Assessment and Therapeutic Approaches of Non-Binary People and Assessment, Support and Therapeutic Approaches of Children. Bio: de Vries Annelou de Vries is a child and adolescent psychiatrist and full staff member in the dept of child and adolescent psychiatry working at the Amsterdam UMC. Annelou de Vries is leading the Child Psychiatry Department of the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria of the Amsterdam UMC. She is president elect of the European Professional Association of Transgender Health (EPATH) . She is co-chair of the adolescent chapter of the Standards of Care revision of the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH). At present, her lines of research focus on 1) the co-occurrence of autism and gender dysphoria, 2) capacity for informed consent of transgender adolescents, 3) long term follow up of transgender adolescence into middle adulthood, 4) sexual development of transgender adolescents, 5) shared decision making in transgender care, and 6) pathways in gender identity exploration and affirmation. Links: Young adult psychological outcome after puberty suppression and gender reassignment https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25201798/ (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25201798/) Puberty suppression in adolescents with gender identity disorder: a prospective follow-up study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20646177/ (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20646177/) Extended Notes When did Thomas and Annelou first hear about the concept of puberty blockers? Thomas
The multidisciplinary team at St Louis Children's Hospital offers expertise in diagnosing and treating disorders of sex development.Christopher Lewis, MD, and Abby Hollander, MD, join the show in a panel discussion on the Differences in Sex Development (DSD, or "Intersex") Clinic at St. Louis Children's Hospital, and when to refer to a specialist.
In August of 2009, the South African runner Caster Semenya won the 800 meter final in the world Championship leading by one minute. “Muscles bulging and triumphant hand aloft,” the news reported, “she crossed the line way ahead of the rest of the field and ran straight into accusations that she was far too strong, too fast and, to be blunt, too masculine to be a woman.” The International Association of Athletics Federation requested that Semenya undergo gender testing. For months, Semenya and the IAAF awaited reports from a gynecologist, an endocrinologist, a psychologist, an internal medicine specialist, and an expert on gender. When the results were finally released, news headlines ranged from “Caster Semenya is a hermaphrodite with no womb or ovaries” in the Sydney Daily Telegraph to Salon.com’s claim that “Castor Semenya is not a hermaphrodite…but intersex.” This news must have come as a shock to Semenya. Today we are going to talk to Elizabeth Reis, author of Bodies in Doubt: An American History of Intersex (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2009). A women’s and Gender Studies scholar and Historian at the University of Oregon, Reis tells us about the history of those who are of ambiguous sex. From early America, when people looked at doubtful bodies as bodies that created legal and religious concern to the 19th century, when physicians began to take over the classification and management of bodies lacking a clear gender identity. This is a remarkable book. And we are glad to have Elizabeth Reis on our show today. The shock with which Semenya – and others like her — must have received this news – as well as the debate over the proper nomenclatura concerning individuals who show sex characteristics of both men and women are among the fascinating topics raised by Elizabeth Reis’ book Reis, a professor of Women’s and Gender Studies and History at the University of Oregon, analyzes the history of bodies of doubtful gender from early America to the present. Her narrative illustrates how anomalous bodies were initially associated with monstrous births, of concern mostly to legal and clerical authorities. In the 19th century, physicians began to take over the classification of doubtful bodies. Soon, they were involved not only in identifying the sex of their patients’ bodies but also in altering doubtful bodies to create gender certainties. Reis traces the rise and fall of medical treatment protocols for the intersex. She concludes with a thoughtful chapter on naming in which she discusses the move away from the term hermaphrodite – which evoked images of mythical creatures and was considered derogatory. Hermaphrodite was followed by the term intersex. But to many, this term seemed too sexualized. It also suggested the existence of a third sex – when many really only wanted two. Recently, physicians have begun to use Disorders of Sex Development [DSD] to refer to the intersex condition. The Disorders in DSD, however, pathologizes the condition. Reis herself suggests Divergence of Sex Development as a more neutral option. If nothing else, the evolution of terminology itself illustrates how sensitive and political the naming and categorizing of gender is. Bodies in Doubt is a terrific contribution to our understanding of sex, gender, and the creation of our two gender system. If you are as fascinated with these issues as I am, you must read this book. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In August of 2009, the South African runner Caster Semenya won the 800 meter final in the world Championship leading by one minute. “Muscles bulging and triumphant hand aloft,” the news reported, “she crossed the line way ahead of the rest of the field and ran straight into accusations that she was far too strong, too fast and, to be blunt, too masculine to be a woman.” The International Association of Athletics Federation requested that Semenya undergo gender testing. For months, Semenya and the IAAF awaited reports from a gynecologist, an endocrinologist, a psychologist, an internal medicine specialist, and an expert on gender. When the results were finally released, news headlines ranged from “Caster Semenya is a hermaphrodite with no womb or ovaries” in the Sydney Daily Telegraph to Salon.com’s claim that “Castor Semenya is not a hermaphrodite…but intersex.” This news must have come as a shock to Semenya. Today we are going to talk to Elizabeth Reis, author of Bodies in Doubt: An American History of Intersex (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2009). A women’s and Gender Studies scholar and Historian at the University of Oregon, Reis tells us about the history of those who are of ambiguous sex. From early America, when people looked at doubtful bodies as bodies that created legal and religious concern to the 19th century, when physicians began to take over the classification and management of bodies lacking a clear gender identity. This is a remarkable book. And we are glad to have Elizabeth Reis on our show today. The shock with which Semenya – and others like her — must have received this news – as well as the debate over the proper nomenclatura concerning individuals who show sex characteristics of both men and women are among the fascinating topics raised by Elizabeth Reis’ book Reis, a professor of Women’s and Gender Studies and History at the University of Oregon, analyzes the history of bodies of doubtful gender from early America to the present. Her narrative illustrates how anomalous bodies were initially associated with monstrous births, of concern mostly to legal and clerical authorities. In the 19th century, physicians began to take over the classification of doubtful bodies. Soon, they were involved not only in identifying the sex of their patients’ bodies but also in altering doubtful bodies to create gender certainties. Reis traces the rise and fall of medical treatment protocols for the intersex. She concludes with a thoughtful chapter on naming in which she discusses the move away from the term hermaphrodite – which evoked images of mythical creatures and was considered derogatory. Hermaphrodite was followed by the term intersex. But to many, this term seemed too sexualized. It also suggested the existence of a third sex – when many really only wanted two. Recently, physicians have begun to use Disorders of Sex Development [DSD] to refer to the intersex condition. The Disorders in DSD, however, pathologizes the condition. Reis herself suggests Divergence of Sex Development as a more neutral option. If nothing else, the evolution of terminology itself illustrates how sensitive and political the naming and categorizing of gender is. Bodies in Doubt is a terrific contribution to our understanding of sex, gender, and the creation of our two gender system. If you are as fascinated with these issues as I am, you must read this book. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In August of 2009, the South African runner Caster Semenya won the 800 meter final in the world Championship leading by one minute. “Muscles bulging and triumphant hand aloft,” the news reported, “she crossed the line way ahead of the rest of the field and ran straight into accusations that she was far too strong, too fast and, to be blunt, too masculine to be a woman.” The International Association of Athletics Federation requested that Semenya undergo gender testing. For months, Semenya and the IAAF awaited reports from a gynecologist, an endocrinologist, a psychologist, an internal medicine specialist, and an expert on gender. When the results were finally released, news headlines ranged from “Caster Semenya is a hermaphrodite with no womb or ovaries” in the Sydney Daily Telegraph to Salon.com’s claim that “Castor Semenya is not a hermaphrodite…but intersex.” This news must have come as a shock to Semenya. Today we are going to talk to Elizabeth Reis, author of Bodies in Doubt: An American History of Intersex (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2009). A women’s and Gender Studies scholar and Historian at the University of Oregon, Reis tells us about the history of those who are of ambiguous sex. From early America, when people looked at doubtful bodies as bodies that created legal and religious concern to the 19th century, when physicians began to take over the classification and management of bodies lacking a clear gender identity. This is a remarkable book. And we are glad to have Elizabeth Reis on our show today. The shock with which Semenya – and others like her — must have received this news – as well as the debate over the proper nomenclatura concerning individuals who show sex characteristics of both men and women are among the fascinating topics raised by Elizabeth Reis’ book Reis, a professor of Women’s and Gender Studies and History at the University of Oregon, analyzes the history of bodies of doubtful gender from early America to the present. Her narrative illustrates how anomalous bodies were initially associated with monstrous births, of concern mostly to legal and clerical authorities. In the 19th century, physicians began to take over the classification of doubtful bodies. Soon, they were involved not only in identifying the sex of their patients’ bodies but also in altering doubtful bodies to create gender certainties. Reis traces the rise and fall of medical treatment protocols for the intersex. She concludes with a thoughtful chapter on naming in which she discusses the move away from the term hermaphrodite – which evoked images of mythical creatures and was considered derogatory. Hermaphrodite was followed by the term intersex. But to many, this term seemed too sexualized. It also suggested the existence of a third sex – when many really only wanted two. Recently, physicians have begun to use Disorders of Sex Development [DSD] to refer to the intersex condition. The Disorders in DSD, however, pathologizes the condition. Reis herself suggests Divergence of Sex Development as a more neutral option. If nothing else, the evolution of terminology itself illustrates how sensitive and political the naming and categorizing of gender is. Bodies in Doubt is a terrific contribution to our understanding of sex, gender, and the creation of our two gender system. If you are as fascinated with these issues as I am, you must read this book. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In August of 2009, the South African runner Caster Semenya won the 800 meter final in the world Championship leading by one minute. “Muscles bulging and triumphant hand aloft,” the news reported, “she crossed the line way ahead of the rest of the field and ran straight into accusations that she was far too strong, too fast and, to be blunt, too masculine to be a woman.” The International Association of Athletics Federation requested that Semenya undergo gender testing. For months, Semenya and the IAAF awaited reports from a gynecologist, an endocrinologist, a psychologist, an internal medicine specialist, and an expert on gender. When the results were finally released, news headlines ranged from “Caster Semenya is a hermaphrodite with no womb or ovaries” in the Sydney Daily Telegraph to Salon.com’s claim that “Castor Semenya is not a hermaphrodite…but intersex.” This news must have come as a shock to Semenya. Today we are going to talk to Elizabeth Reis, author of Bodies in Doubt: An American History of Intersex (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2009). A women’s and Gender Studies scholar and Historian at the University of Oregon, Reis tells us about the history of those who are of ambiguous sex. From early America, when people looked at doubtful bodies as bodies that created legal and religious concern to the 19th century, when physicians began to take over the classification and management of bodies lacking a clear gender identity. This is a remarkable book. And we are glad to have Elizabeth Reis on our show today. The shock with which Semenya – and others like her — must have received this news – as well as the debate over the proper nomenclatura concerning individuals who show sex characteristics of both men and women are among the fascinating topics raised by Elizabeth Reis’ book Reis, a professor of Women’s and Gender Studies and History at the University of Oregon, analyzes the history of bodies of doubtful gender from early America to the present. Her narrative illustrates how anomalous bodies were initially associated with monstrous births, of concern mostly to legal and clerical authorities. In the 19th century, physicians began to take over the classification of doubtful bodies. Soon, they were involved not only in identifying the sex of their patients’ bodies but also in altering doubtful bodies to create gender certainties. Reis traces the rise and fall of medical treatment protocols for the intersex. She concludes with a thoughtful chapter on naming in which she discusses the move away from the term hermaphrodite – which evoked images of mythical creatures and was considered derogatory. Hermaphrodite was followed by the term intersex. But to many, this term seemed too sexualized. It also suggested the existence of a third sex – when many really only wanted two. Recently, physicians have begun to use Disorders of Sex Development [DSD] to refer to the intersex condition. The Disorders in DSD, however, pathologizes the condition. Reis herself suggests Divergence of Sex Development as a more neutral option. If nothing else, the evolution of terminology itself illustrates how sensitive and political the naming and categorizing of gender is. Bodies in Doubt is a terrific contribution to our understanding of sex, gender, and the creation of our two gender system. If you are as fascinated with these issues as I am, you must read this book. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices