Podcast appearances and mentions of david buckle

David Buckle & stats guru Ross aka FPL__Raptor discuss FPL, FanTeam and his new book. You can, and should, buy Ross's book 'The Mind Game' here amazon.co.uk/TheMindGame To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey and Ross @FPL__Raptor

David Buckle & Last years FanTeam season long winner Josh aka CheckJosh discuss FPL, FanTeam and his big win. To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey and Josh @Warwickpokersoc

David Buckle & Luke aka FPLIrons discuss Football Manager, FPL, FanTeamFocus.com & look forward to the EPL season long on FanTeam. To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey and Luke @FPLIrons

David Buckle & Callum Lagdon discuss FanTeamFocus.com and preview this weeks semis, talk Spurs & look forward to the EPL season long on FanTeam. To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey and Callum @FanteamLagdon

David Buckle, Ben Hearn & Callum Lagdon discuss FanTeamFocus.com and preview this weekends Last-16 games. To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey, Ben @ben_pz_ and Callum @FanteamLagdon

David Buckle was joined by Curtis to discuss the first slate of Euro 2020, the FanTeam Monster and user questions. To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey & Curtis @DelBoyMoneyMan

David Buckle was joined by Gianni Butticè & Curtis Foster to discuss the eight teams across groups A & B in Euro 2020. To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey, Gianni @GianniButtice & Curtis @DelBoyMoneyMan

David Buckle, Ben Hearn & Callum Lagdon discuss FanTeamFocus.com and preview this weekends season ending games. We also cover the all important Eurovision 2021 tournament that FanTeam have presented us with. To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey, Ben @ben_pz_ and Callum @FanteamLagdon

David Buckle & Ben Hearn discuss FanTeamFocus.com and preview this weeks games and talk all things SCOFF. To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey & Ben @ben_pz_

David Buckle, Ben Hearn & Callum Lagdon discuss FanTeamFocus.com and preview this weekends games. To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey, Ben @ben_pz_ and Callum @FanteamLagdon

David Buckle, Ben Hearn & Callum Lagdon discuss the launch of FanTeamFocus.com, give listeners a little background on the guys, preview this weekends games and finally launch a new promotion for users of our site. To sign up to FanTeam please use our affiliate link below for additional benefits and promotions. It costs you nothing, but helps funds the content we produce and the prizes we give out on a near daily basis. Sign up link - http://fanteam.co/join In addition to the website and the podcast we also have a YouTube channel where we release content near daily on guides for FanTeam, players picks and strategy to use. Please subscribe if you like what you see. On top of all that we have an active twitter account offering competitions and all kinds of interesting stuff. All links are below. Enjoy! twitter.com/fanteamfocus YouTube.com/FanTeamFocus You can also follow us on twitter at David @soraremonkey, Ben @ben_pz_ and Callum @FanteamLagdon

In this month's Rich Pickings: has inflation really disappeared or does it remain lurking in the shadows? If so, what risk does it pose and how can investors guard against it? Plus, the thinking behind moves in Fidelity's House View - a more positive stance around equities in the short-term but a strongly negative rating for long-term government bonds. And why investors could be losing their sweet tooth for sugar. Richard Edgar, Editor in Chief, talks to Lead Cross-Asset Strategist, Wen-Wen Lindroth, Head of Investment Solutions Design, David Buckle, and Portfolio Manager, Tim Foster. With a whistle-stop tour of the global economy from Ian Samson, Markets Research Analyst. **If you enjoy Rich Pickings then why not try our sister podcast, Fidelity Answers, where we dig deeper into a range of topics affecting markets, global economics, and the world of investing.**

Significant shifts are underway in the pattern of global populations. Many developed countries are becoming older while a number of their developing counterparts are beginning to reap 'demographic dividends' as their younger contingent boom. What do these changes mean for societies, companies, individuals, and investors? To find out, Editor in Chief Richard Edgar talks to Fidelity's Head of Solutions Design, David Buckle, Global Head of Fidelity's Work Place Investing business, Julian Webb, and Aneta Wynmiko, Portfolio Manager. TranscriptRichard Edgar: The pattern of populations is changing. In many places, especially the developed world, people are having fewer children, but they're living longer. Emerging economies have quite another trend though, a boom in the under thirties, sometimes too many for their countries to find work for. You've probably heard all this before. It's not a surprise, but what do these huge shifts mean for societies and for investors? What challenges are there for governments, businesses, and individuals as we work out how to support or employ the old, the young and indeed ourselves? Well, with me in the studio to discuss demographics are three Fidelity experts. First, David Buckle, Head of Investment Solutions Design here at Fidelity. Now, David, part of your job is to think in novel ways about how people can fund their retirement. What's the most significant shift that you've seen in the way the industry is approaching this? David Buckle: By far the most significant is the notion of needing to invest in the retirement phase as opposed to cashing out at age 65. Richard Edgar: And in other words that it's not a done deal, you're going to carry on trying to coup some returns for the many years that many people are retired nowadays. David Buckle: In a pension sense we all live too long and therefore the money doesn't last. So it needs to grow at least through the first phase of retirement to make sure it lasts for the rest of your lifetime. Richard Edgar: Jolly good. Well with me also is a Portfolio Manager Aneta Wynimko who runs Fidelity's demographic and consumer funds. Now, Aneta, I imagine that both the areas that you cover complement each other: the impact of changing populations and their behaviours. What's the most interesting trend that touches both of those? Aneta Wynimko: Well, the most interesting and fascinating trend is how people today in their fifties think that they are still young and how they spend their money. So we all talk about ageing and we all talk about the population declining, the spending power declining, but I think psychologically people are younger in their minds. Richard Edgar: They're younger older in a sense. Jolly good. Okay. And completing our line-up today is Julian Webb, Global Head of Fidelity's Workplace Investing business. Now, Julian, you're responsible for the pension schemes have some 1 million end investors all over the world. How are the needs of those members evolving? Julian Webb: They are certainly changing in light of what we're seeing in terms of global demographic changes. I think the most fundamental thing is that people now have their own responsibility for their retirements. I think the shift has clearly moved from state to either the private individual or indeed their employers. So I think people are now recognising they need more support and help to save for an adequate retirement income. Richard Edgar: So a lot of people are having to get their heads around this, it's not just the people around this table. Well Julian, David and Aneta, welcome to you all. What's wrong with an older population? [Skip to here] David, could you set the scene for us, please? What challenges do the demographics pose in places which are getting older? David Buckle: Yes. There's two big ones. The first one is that when you retire, you have to fund until the point of your death. The longer you live, the more the money's got to last. That's the clear driver in demographics and because that phase is actually quite short and in the sense of a lifetime, just a few years extra longevity actually mean quite a big impact to the work your savings have to do. The second thing is there's a question mark about how much the state can provide with the demographic shift of how many young people are supporting how many old people. It's not clear how much pension provision can come from the state in the future. Richard Edgar: So how do the economics underpin all of this, affect those points thatyou're making? David Buckle: They're not helpful actually. Economic growth is how many people are working and how much is each one producing. The population growth of the world is slowing so there's less people, or less growth in people, so we need them to be more productive. And with an ageing population actually typically that corresponds to a lower productivity. Richard Edgar: In fact, poor productivity is a symptom that we're seeing in many economies, particularly these economies that are growing older. David Buckle: Indeed so. Yes. The investment upside [Skip to here] Richard Edgar: Okay. Well, Aneta, all of this sounds very worrying and yet the demographic fund that you co-run looks for the opportunities that these shifts throw up. So you're looking for the good news. Aneta Wynimko: Yes, always. Richard Edgar: Radiate some optimism in this discussion, please. Aneta Wynimko: Okay. So the demographic fund is a long-only fund so obviously we are looking for the good news. And for us the most exciting news is the fact that older people will have to spend money on basically trying to stay younger and healthier longer. And this is a very clear trend; the medicine technology - there are many companies that are coming up with solutions. The baby boomers, retiring baby boomers, have very high spending power. And as I said before, they think they are young, they want to enjoy their life, and their spending patterns are shifting from things which are may be necessary to things which are maybe much more discretionary that allow them to enjoy life and stay healthy and fit. Richard Edgar: So what are the types of things that you're looking for? Where do you specifically start to pick up on those changing trends? Aneta Wynimko: Something which is maybe very superficial, but skincare companies are a big beneficiary of ageing because as we know - or as we hope - skincare products help us looking younger and I've seen studies that show a lady in their fifties buys five times more products than lady who is in her twenties. So obviously companies that sell skin care products are quite a clear beneficiary. Richard Edgar: That's a really good statistic. Have you go the same for men in their fifties and how much that compares with men in their twenties? Aneta Wynimko: We are now talking about the metrosexual men who care about what they look like a lot, actually. And in Asia we are seeing increasing demand from men for skincare and this is driven partially also by social media where you want to project your image and look young. So we are seeing quite a strong trend of growth, but it's not the baby boomers. I think it will be the generation of millennials. As they get older they will spend more and more on skincare. Richard Edgar: Interesting. Now, Julian, I'm dying to ask you about your skincare regime and your social media profile. Julian Webb: We can certainly talk about that. Richard Edgar: You look fabulous. For those of you who are watching in black and white, Julian looks great. Ageing workforces and corporate adaptation [Skip to here] But we've got people who are living longer, they're feeling younger, as Aneta was explaining they want to look younger. They're also staying longer in work. How are the companies having to adapt to an ageing workforce? Julian Webb: I think this adds potentially a lot of value and benefit to employers, particularly as the more senior in age their workforces, the more experience by definition they can bring to that organisation. Hiring young talent can be quite challenging into an organisation, so retaining your senior, more experienced talent, I think is also important. So what we're seeing are a lot of large employers in particular having a much more flexible approach in terms of when people would expect to be retiring, they are designing their benefits structures in a way that accommodates an older workforce as well. So I think employers absolutely understand this. However, to David's earlier point, they're probably comes a point in time where the older generation become less productive. So equally employers don't want an ageing workforce that is becoming less productive. So they want to make sure that they are financially secure so they can actually retire at an appropriate age and not just to have to continue working for income purposes. Richard Edgar: I suppose there's an element of education as well. Not just of the companies but of the employees as well. Julian Webb: Very much so. Very much so. And one of the big, big trends that we're seeing, particularly in the US, is this concept of financial wellness. So I think historically employers have really focused on retirement savings and making sure that their workforces are adequately catered for - for retirement income. But I think increasingly, whether it's for the older generation or indeed the younger generation, this concept of financial wellbeing - financial wellness beyond retirement - in other words, beyond retirement savings. So whether that's on short term cash flow, debt management, your family's financial wellness as well. So we're seeing employers setting up these programmes to inform and engage with their workforce on this broader topic of financial wellness. Richard Edgar: David? David Buckle: Yes, and it extends into retraining as well. It's unlikely - given that this is all at the same time as a technological revolution - it's unlikely that people will have a single career for this force lifespan. So the likelihood of needing to switch gears mid-career is becoming greater and these milestones that are now available for how close are you to retirement point, you will probably need to check those milestones at the same time of potentially shifting gear in your career. Financing longer (and longer) retirements [Skip to here] Richard Edgar: How do we pay as countries, as economies? How do we think about paying for people in their retirement? Because that has to change as well. David Buckle: Yes. There's typically three pillars which people lean on. The first is the state, the second is the company, the third is the individual. Richard Edgar: And the state's stepping back in many places. David Buckle: Yes. You just look at the sheer numbers. The number of people retiring, the number of money on the balance sheet and it's likely that that's going to have to shift. Certainly as an individual saver planning for retirement, I don't want to rely on that government piece as a significant part of my retirement. Julian Webb: I would just quickly add: I think the state clearly plays a really, really important role in retirement provision, but particularly for the less well off. And I think what we're seeing is this shift from governments focused on good quality, adequate state provision for the lower paid, and then for medium to higher paid individuals, putting more emphasis on them to save for their own retirement and become less reliant on the state. So I think that's quite an important shift. But I think overall this is a fact that actually countries do want to backtrack a little bit on this provision - that's either by reducing the absolute amount of retirement income that the state provides or often, and increasingly, increasing the age when you become eligible to take those benefits. Richard Edgar: So transfer of responsibility to individuals, but at the same time there's a transfer of risk from the companies that were providing defined benefit schemes to defined contributions. So there is an awful lot for people to get their heads around. Are they succeeding in this preparation? Julian Webb: I think it's just started, in reality. I mean, this move from defined benefit guaranteed retirement income to defined contribution has really been evolving over the last 20 years. But I think the reality is in a lot of the countries, in particular the sort of more mature countries, that actually the concept of defined benefit is more or less disappeared. A lot of people say, well that's a negative thing, but actually it can be a positive thing. So if we bring it back to the demographic changes and the flexibility that the workforce is looking for, actually having defined contribution can be a significant advantage. So for example, in retirement, we know that when you just retire you've hopefully got your health, you need to enjoy your free time, you need more money so you need a higher income at that point in time. And then as you become older, actually you're less mobile and probably have less opportunity to enjoy your free time and you need less money. And then the third and final sort of cycle actually as you go into later life you perhaps have less good health and you need healthcare. Richard Edgar: So a spike in health healthcare spending. Julian Webb: That's right, and therefore you need more money at the end. Whereas the defined benefit plan by definition gives you a pretty static level of income throughout your retirement. Richard Edgar: Okay. And these are the patterns Aneta that you were talking about of how you're trying to a spot where the opportunities are. Aneta Wynimko: Yes, because we see obviously a lot of the developed countries but also some of the emerging market countries ageing quite fast, but this ageing, at this point in time, is mostly the baby boomers moving to a kind of bit more advanced age - let's not call that old age - and it's a time where they still have a lot of savings, spending power and willingness to spend and enjoy their life. And maybe they are not thinking so far ahead. But also this is the population that has a lot of wealth in their houses. They have experienced the global housing boom and they have quite a lot of money saved in the main asset that they possess. So obviously the question planning forward for them is, when they get into the eighties, will they be able to release the equity from the house and use that to pay for their retirement and for the care that they will need? So I think people in their late sixties are not yet so concerned about the need to actually have savings and maybe that's not very responsible on their part because time flies quite fast. Richard Edgar: Although that generation, that cohort, have got assets and this is quite different to people who are following them. And they are also the people who tend to vote. Budgets and ballot boxes: The role of the state [Skip to here] And I just want to bring in governments here, David, because part of the problem in sorting out some of the fundamental issues around here is that the electoral cycle is too fast for anybody really to grasp the nettle and make some of the painful changes that perhaps need to be done. David Buckle: Yes, that's correct. Yes. The cycle of retirement is way longer than the cycle of an election. And of course as we get an older and older society, they represent a bigger and bigger group that the governments are trying to pander to win votes. But I think the overarching problem here is that pensions, state pensions, actually haven't been around for that long. And when they started you received them when you were 65 and the life expectancy was 49. So it was really designed for people who unexpectedly lived on. So the notion of, you retire with still 15, 20 years of life left and you do cruises and golfing holidays and all of those things, that was never really planned for from the government's perspective. Richard Edgar: So what is the answer? That we realise that things aren't as good anymore and people like you and me have got to work until their mid-seventies, mid-eighties, or beyond? David Buckle: Likely we've got to work longer. But more important, if you're able to save, start saving. That’s the most important message. Julian Webb: Yes. And I think there are particular countries and governments that are a bit more progressive on this. Richard Edgar: So where is doing it well? Julian Webb: Well, I think the UK actually is doing it pretty well because when you talk to other governments and policy makers often they are referring back to the UK as a potential model to follow. So for example, in the UK we still have very, very generous levels of contributions that you can make into a pension plan with full tax relief. I mean there are exceptions if you are paid lots of money then it gets scaled back. For the vast majority of people, these are still, on a relative global comparison basis, very high levels of contributions with tax relief. I think I'd also say that the government by introducing auto enrolment has been seen to be very progressive because this has now brought a lot more people into the workplace retirement environment, which they wouldn't have been in prior to that. And then finally, I would just say that these days when you retire in the UK, you have complete flexibility as to how you wish to receive your income. So I think that's had political consensus in the UK, all of the political parties are behind it. It is a very long term strategy. By comparison we see other countries who limit the tax relief or limit contributions because of the cost to the state here and now, rather than taking a longer term view. Richard Edgar: Aneta, when you're thinking about where to invest, do you take that into account? Do you start looking at where you think people are going to have money to spend in retirement? Another example might be Australia where they've got a well-funded a system there. Does that sort of decision play into your thinking? Aneta Wynimko: Yes, I do think about it, but I must say it's very hard because at the end of the day it's about how people make their choices and most of consumption globally is actually from wealthy people. So most of the opportunities to invest in consumer facing businesses is catering to wealthy people. As we all know, they control most of the stock equities, they control most of the housing assets. And this is why I think the outlook for their consumption and also for the consumption from the world that they will be passing onto their children is quite healthy. The issue is definitely when it comes to people that have not saved, that are not planning for the future - and this is the majority of the population - and that will have implications for companies that sell products, that cater to that level of population. So I do think about it, but an aggregated basis, it doesn't look as bad as it might seem on average, kind of per capita basis. Richard Edgar: Once again, a nice positive side to this discussion. Aneta Wynimko: I clearly come from equity. On the flip side: Demographic dividends and cultural variation [Skip to here] Richard Edgar: Give me an example of some of the countries then that are appealing to you at this broad level. Aneta Wynimko: So in the demographic fund, we are looking at the dependency ratio and that helps us to identify countries where for the long term the opportunity for consumption is very good because the ratio of those who don't work to those who are in the working force is good and stable over time. So there's a number of countries. Vietnam is a good example. India is a very good example. Indonesia. But most of the countries in the developed world - I mean Japan is leading the pack - but the ageing of western European countries is quite fast and obviously the same applies to China. The US actually has quite good demographics. It's being muddled a bit by the anti-immigration policy now, but this country still has quite descent demographics and as a result quite a good outlook for consumption. Richard Edgar: But some of the countries that you highlighted there, they're basically emerging markets - you picked on some in in Asia. They are a different background, a different type of place to invest with different challenges as well. So how do you factor all of those things in when you're thinking about many years in advance? Aneta Wynimko: You can look, for example, at a place like Vietnam which has a very young population. A country that today benefits from the fact that a lot of the factories are being moved from China - where labour is becoming too expensive, partially as a result of scarcity of labour in China - to Vietnam. And you can see the creation of jobs at the low end, moving toward more sophisticated, higher value end jobs. And as a result, what we are seeing are companies like Zara going there and opening shops and having a big success. So we've seen that story played out in many countries before and we can see that happening in the next decade. Richard Edgar: Exactly. So a growing middle class, more spending, and what have you. We've seen it all before. David, the question I want to ask you is the countries that have the demographic dividend at the moment, so they've got a bulge of people in the lower age brackets, are they simply going to be places with a problem in years to come in the same way that Japan is at the forefront now and developed markets like, say Germany - choosing one that's about to have a problem in Europe. David Buckle: Not necessarily. My personal experience of trying to design products for these differing countries is it's more to do with the cultural expectation of how retirement is managed. So for example, in the western world, it's very common to have some kind of life annuity product which pays you an income through retirement and then when you die the product's over. Whereas in parts of Asia, where I speak to, the response from consumers there is to say, no, we don't need that much money in retirement because there's an expectation that your family takes care of you, but it wouldn't be acceptable to have that nest egg disappear on death. The idea being that that's then transferred to those that have looked after you as part of your estate. So managing the cultural issues tends to be a bigger problem than the demographic that you've referred to for emerging economies versus developed. Richard Edgar: So what are the products that you then have thought through for those markets? David Buckle: For those ones I've just described there, something with a lump sum balloon payment at the end, for example, and potentially lower income through retirement to compensate would be more attractive to some of the Asian countries. Multinationals and the spread of best practice [Skip to here] Richard Edgar: Julian, you think about this from a global point of view as well, and on the business side. How are employers adapting? Particularly ones that may be operating in lots of countries? Julian Webb: Yes, we are very much seeing these global, multinational companies wanting to increasingly have a sort of consistent common approach to retirement provision and the broader sort of financial provision for their workforce. So to David's point, it is very different country by country in terms of state provision, but actually these employers want more consistency so they want more fairness, more equality across all of their workforce. I would also add that particularly US-based organisations are actually now putting more workforce and increasing their workforce profile outside of the US. So increasingly they are coming to Fidelity and asking us for help with solutions in these emerging markets where they are now actually employing quite large volume of employees. Richard Edgar: Is it enough to start bringing about change in those markets, perhaps accelerating some of the developments that are already happening in the developed economies? Julian Webb: I don't think it's going to be a sudden change, but what I do know is that governments and states pay close attention to what these multinationals are doing. Often they are incentivising these companies to set up businesses in these locations and they watch very closely how they employ their staff and what benefits they provide. So I think this will be very much something which will drive change through these large companies and their changed programmes, delivering change into government and into state as well. Richard Edgar: So at a government level they're taking notice. What about the changes that you're seeing in the way individuals are able to start thinking about the way that they save? Because certainly right at the beginning of your career it just seems so far away. Most people don't want to think about it. I certainly didn't. Julian Webb: And I think that is the reality. So I think increasingly both individuals and their employers are giving a lot of thought to this and really thinking - perhaps talking to somebody and engaging with somebody in their early twenties - about a two or even five-year time horizon and certainly not a 30, 40-year time horizon. So for example, it may be about their short term cash flow, they're management of debt - increasingly actually student debt on a global basis is becoming an issue; we often think about it as an issue here in the UK, but it's certainly an issue in the US as well. And I think increasingly what employers are looking for is, what's a simple effective way of engaging with our workforce, whether it's on a short, medium or long term horizon for their financial wellbeing. So as an example, we have come up with some core principles, what we call retirement guidelines. And one of these, as an example, is what we refer to as a savings factor. So what multiple of your annual salary do you need to save at a particular age to make sure that you can retire on an adequate income? Richard Edgar: To show that you're on track; a milestone that you're going to be okay. Julian Webb: Exactly right. So if you're, for example, in your twenties, it may be once times your annual salary as a cash equivalent that you need to have already saved for your retirement. If you're in your thirties, it may be four times. If you're in your fifties, it's probably going to be closer to eight or nine times. So a very simple way, as you say, of people just making sure that they remain on track and we can deliver this service and this information in an easy way to access. So for example, through a mobile app or on a website. So the use of technology comes into play because I think increasingly people want just an easy, simple, intuitive way of accessing this information, Richard Edgar: Real behavioural changes then right across the board. A fascinating topic, Julian, I know that we could carry on talking about this for much longer, but I'm afraid we're all out of time now. So Julian, David and Aneta, thank you so much for joining me and thank you for listening. Bye-bye.

The world of passive investing has enjoyed phenomenal growth in recent years - the result of a fundamental shift in investor behaviour or simply the consequence of a unique market backdrop? And now that market dynamics and monetary policy are beginning to shift, could we be witnessing what might be the 'peak' of the passive bull run? What could that mean for investors? In this in depth discussion, Richard Edgar, Editor in Chief, talks to Fidelity experts Nick King, Head of ETFs; Sonja Laud, Head of Equity; Head of Research for Fixed Income, Marty Dropkin; and Head of Investment Solutions Design, David Buckle, about where they see the relationship between active and passive investing heading and how investors should be thinking of the two as we potentially edge towards a new era for markets.---This podcast is for investment professionals only and should not be relied on by private investors. This podcast is provided for information purposes only and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is sent or downloaded by. It must not be reproduced or circulated to any other party without prior permission of Fidelity. Fidelity Personal Investing does not give personal recommendations. The value of investments can go down as well as up so you may get back less than you invest. For other important legal notices please see our website.  Transcript   Richard Edgar: The world of passive investment has enjoyed a glorious decade. Assets have flooded in following impressive returns, all delivered at a fraction of the cost of actively managed funds. But it’s not as simple as that. And as the market has matured the debate has intensified over the relative pros and cons of tracking an index or handing money over to portfolio managers to try to outperform the broader market. And it matters more than ever right now: market dynamics and monetary policy are shifting. Are we witnessing what might be the peak of the passive bull run? If so, what will passive providers need to do to keep up? How should active managers seize the moment? And how should investors best incorporate both in their portfolios? Well I have a flock of fidelity experts joining me in the studio today to answer those questions. Nick King head of ETFs. Nick, what do you reckon has been the most exciting development in this market? Nick King: So I would say it's the sheer scale of flows into the passive products. Flows over the decade from 2007 to 2017 where almost 3 trillion dollars - so huge sums of money. Richard Edgar: Not to be sniffed at and you're delighted with it too as head of ETFs. Nick King: Yes, absolutely. Richard Edgar: Sonja Laud, head of equity, is here as well. Sonja, there's been a huge focus of late on the costs of active management. Has it been tough as an active manager recently? Sonja Laud: I think it's fair to say that yes, it has been tough. Although I would say that the debate has been rather one-sided because obviously active is not only about the cost angle but more in terms of what the product really is producing for the end investor. As such I would hope that the debate going forward is more granular and is really looking at what the net return is that each product can contribute to the asset allocation. Richard Edgar: And a granular debate is what I expect we'll be having in this discussion as well. Marty Dropkin - hello to you - head of research for fixed income. I want to know is the active and passive argument a daily debate on the fixed income floor as well? Marty Dropkin: It's less so than it would be in an equity world and that's because in fixed income the active passive debate is more of a continuum. There's a range of topics that we can talk about. It’s about a 10 per cent share of passive on the fixed income side but it's also a trickier thing to manage, to actually calculate. Richard Edgar: Ok. Finally, David Buckle is here as well - head of investment solutions design. Now, David, as somebody who uses both active and passive in tailoring investment products to clients’ needs, have you noticed a change in attitudes amongst clients? David Buckle: Yes, the key one is the attitude is it isn't active versus passive, it's low cost versus high cost. That's the driver of the flows into passive. Richard Edgar: So perhaps we'll hear a little bit more about that. Well welcome to you all.   Market dynamics and the growth in passive [skip to here] Let's talk first of all about the context here. Nick, let me come to you. You’re the passive guy in the room, if I can put it like that. You described the incredible growth of passive in recent years. It's a very agreeable market backdrop though that has supported the passive products. Give us a flavour of how well it's done over recent times. Nick King: Taking equity markets as an example, the MSCI World Index has returned nearly 12 per cent per annum from 2009 to now. When returns from beta are so high it's easy for alpha to be forgotten. And then in addition, the correlations between stocks over this huge bull run have also been very high making it fairly difficult for active managers to generate alpha. Richard Edgar: So we’re doing very well, almost without trying. Nick King: Indeed. And I think on top of that, regulatory change is clearly also providing a tailwind for passive investing, placing a greater scrutiny on costs and transparency. Those two things coupled really have been the perfect environment. Richard Edgar: But the environment is changing, isn’t it? And it can’t last forever. Sonja, the tectonic plates in markets of shifting. You hinted at this. Can you set out the new landscape that’s emerging? Now we don’t want to sound like we’re talking our own book here - Fidelity is a largely active house - but are there sunnier times ahead for active managers? Sonja Laud: I would think so. And I think it’s important to understand what actually has led to this tremendous performance profile for passive i.e. you know what has been the driver of beta over the past couple of years. And I think here in particular it’s worth mentioning the unprecedented central bank support that actually has led to return dispersions being extremely low for global equity markets to have such a great year performance. And as such, the big question mark: if we are really heading from quantitative easing towards quantitative tightening is that finally the backdrop that will lead to higher return dispersions, which obviously is a much better backdrop for stock seeking, for active stock selection, and we believe that actually indeed this is what is happening. David Buckle: Actually could I just jump in there. I think as an extension of Sonja's point, the fact that it's cost which is driving this is also effected by the level of interest rates. If interest rates are at 5 per cent it's less of a worry if you're paying an extra half a per cent for your fees on your product. If interest rates are zero it's hugely more impactful. So it may well be that the interest rate environment also drives the adjustment of pressure on fees.   Has passive peaked? [skip to here] Richard Edgar: Nick, the question posed by this podcast is: has passive peaked? Would you agree with that? Nick King: I think there's still scope for passive to continue to grow, particularly in fixed income markets where the level of passive assets isn't as high as it is within equities. But I would also agree with my colleagues that given that we have had this tremendous bull run with valuations being fairly high right now, I think that this is the type environment in which active investing can clearly add some value. So the flows will possibly slow down somewhat I think. Richard Edgar: And Marty, what about the bond market? Because we've got a lot of different things going on here. How's it going to play out in your world? Marty Dropkin: There probably is scope for more passive to appear in the fixed income world, but we do view it as a continuum. If you break down fixed income by asset class, I think there are certain asset classes which are much more prone to passive type funds. There are certain asset classes, picking up on what Sonja was talking about - about dispersion on the equity side - the same phenomenon will exist on the credit side. We think as rates start to rise we'll start to see credit dispersion and in an asset class where downside protection is really what you're looking for, with asymmetric returns, that idea that we have to avoid the losers becomes that much more important. And that's where the active side really kicks in. Richard Edgar: Because you just can’t do that if your if you’re buying an index? Marty Dropkin: Exactly. Richard Edgar: And indices in fixed income are quite a different beast to equities. Marty Dropkin: Yes. It’s almost a four letter word in fixed income… Richard Edgar: Yes, my maths - I’m just trying to spell out indices… almost a four letter word. Marty Dropkin: Almost. Richard Edgar: I thought you were meant to be good at maths? Marty Dropkin: I wouldn’t tout that. But fixed income has become much more a benchmark agnostic kind of asset class right now. In particular, when you see the rise of total return and asset return mandates, central bank mandates that are pushing on those particular areas, benchmarks become irrelevant almost. And so the idea of trying to outperform a benchmark becomes a non-issue. And that’s why I talk about this continuum of active versus passive. I think David talks about lower fees - that's clearly an issue in fixed income. That's probably rates driven as well. It's also just market driven, but I think as we leverage our research base across the entire continuum of funds that we run that becomes more the question I think. Richard Edgar: And actually how passive is passive in terms of: there's a bewildering number of indices, Nick, in equities. You're still having to make a choice there. There is no binary, “It's either active or passive.” Is there? Nick King: Yes, I agree. And I wouldn't say that what we've really experienced is just a shift from active to passive products. It's actually an unbundling of exposures. So institutional clients rather than historically investing the majority of their assets passively are now looking to separate their allocations to beta, to style risk, factor risk, and also to more idiosyncratic alpha. So I think it's just an evolution of what historically was classified as alpha has now been separated into different types of risk.   For and against: the academic case for passive investing [skip to here] Richard Edgar: David, standing back a little bit, what is the case - the academic case, if you like - for passive investing? David Buckle: The standard one is based on two things. Firstly, that because the active managers are trading amongst themselves, the average performance of the active management community must be zero. And then the academics went on to study if that was empirically true, found some results related to the US, and then the pushback was, “Ah, yes, but that's the average manager. What about a good manager?” And the academics then pushed back and said, “Well, they can’t be persistent because you can’t have, in the long run, negative performing managers. So in the end everyone must be zero.” They did some more empirical studies, showed there wasn’t much persistence. The point that those miss… Richard Edgar: So far we’re keeping a lot of academics in work it seems… David Buckle: Indeed, and I’m sure we will in the future because the point that’s being missed here, which is that next area I'd like to see for study, is that there would still be a role for active managers if an investor felt they could time their investments into actively managed products. Richard Edgar: Explain that then. David Buckle: Yes. So let's suppose there isn't any persistence in active management but you know as an investor when the good period is going to be for a particular fund. Then you would say, “I’m going to now enter that fund with an intention of exiting that fund.” Richard Edgar: So there’s an active decision that's going on the part of the individual investor: “I’m going to give this fund manager my money or another one.” David Buckle: Correct. Richard Edgar: But that is quite a skill. Multi asset teams do that. But are you expecting individual investors to be making that? David Buckle: They already do. And the point is, Richard, in terms of, “Is there a role for active or a case for active?”, is it's not a matter of whether they are good at it or not, it's a matter of whether they perceive themselves to be good at that. And then they would naturally have demand for active funds. Richard Edgar: And Sonja, I’m sure you hear this as well. But David's already touched on one of the criticisms of that research. Sonja Laud: Yes. I think part of the support for passive obviously has been the failure of some active managers to perform, although I think the whole argument has been led rather one-sidedly by the US market. Because what we have seen, if you look in more detail, it's been particularly the US fund managers and large caps that have had a horrific time over the past couple of years. Yet this is one of the most popular areas for active engagement i.e. investors love to own their actively managed US funds. With these managers struggling so badly it has become more one sided: “Oh yes, active cannot perform.” Rather than: “It’s US active managers.” Richard Edgar: And that's because the market itself has done so well. There's been extraordinary beta and not much dispersion. Sonja Laud: Yes. The leadership has been extremely narrow. the US market has been the worst in terms of return dispersions, the lack of volatility, and a very narrow leadership. As an active manager, if you didn't own the 10 leading stocks you had no chance whatsoever to outperform. Richard Edgar: But if you were to go to small caps, or better still in emerging markets say…? Sonja Laud: Exactly, you’re hitting on the most important points: it's the cap - the large versus small cap - and it's the efficiency of the market. The more efficient the market and the larger your cap spectrum the more difficult it is to outperform. So you have had large categories around emerging markets, small cap, that actually have delivered positive alpha over that time period. Yet because it's the US market that is the most popular, you have seen this rather kind of broad based “Active cannot perform” statement. Richard Edgar: And Marty, it's all the harder still when you're making credit selection. Marty Dropkin: What’s interesting is the same phenomenon that Sonja just described exists in fixed income. And if you think about the aggregate fixed income market, you really just needed to own treasury bonds for the last 20 or 30 years and you would have been doing very well. You would have had incredibly good returns. As rates start to rise and the market starts to probably look at some lower duration asset classes like a high yield asset class for instance, that's where credit work comes in and that's where differentiation comes in and that's where your need to kind of drill in and understand individual companies really steps up Richard Edgar: And Nick King? Nick King: So I would say it's about the combination of active and passive. It's using passive instruments where you think the markets are very efficient and generating alpha is going to be difficult. And then using the active products where you think there are opportunities for alpha. And actually it's this combination of both passive and active products, which groups like David's are putting together and actually using those passive instruments in a very active way.   Market threats: the economic impact [skip to here] Richard Edgar: What are the dangers of passive? David Buckle: The hidden danger of passive investing is that everyone goes passive and the market will cease to operate. That's an and point we probably won't ever get to. Richard Edgar: Explain that because people would still be holding shares or credit. But why does that mean it's not working? David Buckle: Well, why would there be a share? If you think, the secondary market is there because people want to get in and out of the primary market. They're happy to give money to a company if they think at some point they could get that money back. The secondary market is to do that - is to transfer your ownership to somebody else. If everybody goes passive there would be no transacting other than someone has retired and wants to sell their share and therefore someone who's trying to save for retirement can then buy the shares off them. But that would be the only transactions. And the notion of daily trading - it just wouldn't be there anymore. And as a result there wouldn't need to be a secondary market in that environment and then that would have an impact on the primary market. If everyone went passive there is the risk that it would actually slow down the efficient allocation of capital into an economy, which has a feedback loop to investors because that would lower the long term returns for investing. Sonja Laud: I guess we have to go right back to the original purpose of capital markets; why we're here and what we as intermediaries are expected to achieve when we are handed capital and obviously employed in the market. And it's about the efficiency of markets, it’s the price discovery mechanism, but it's the long term impact obviously, the societal impact as well, and what we aim to achieve in improving corporate governance and the companies we invest in. And this is where the whole overall ESG complex comes in because here, clearly, the idea around engagement with corporates plays a much bigger role than what we sometimes claim to do in normal circumstances. Richard Edgar: We’ll come to ESG in a moment, but I just want to come back to this idea about the role of active management within the economy. And I guess the point here David is that it's like natural selection, in terms of the efficient allocation. That we want the companies that aren't performing well - whether it's on the credit side or in equities - to fall by the wayside for that continued improvement. David Buckle: And the opposite, Richard. Play a hypothetical situation: back in the 80s, Microsoft says, “Hey, we've invented Windows,” and there's no analysts. How do they get the capital to develop Windows to make it into what it is today? If everyone's passive the money doesn't flow to them because they're not in the index. So it's more that side of it than getting rid of the ones which are no longer wanted. Richard Edgar: It's just completely static. And actually I suppose the danger [is] also on the on the credit side. So if you think about market weighting, it's going to the companies that already exist and our very large, and on the other side, in credit, the companies that are already heavily indebted that are in an index that money is flowing to. Marty Dropkin: That's absolutely right and I think it's also pointing to this idea that credit is an asymmetric asset class. You buy a bond at par, at 100, and the best you can expect is to get a coupon and get your money back at the end of it. So in a passive world that's great. But the reality is that some companies do default and some companies take on too much debt, just as you've indicated Richard. [With] some companies something changes with the company  - they've decided to make an acquisition [for example] which puts them in a precarious position. And in a passive world you wouldn't really pay attention to those things, you would just continue to buy the bonds as they sit in the index. Whereas what it takes is some research to figure out which ones of these are going to default - and they do default. Richard Edgar: So if passive is only about a tenth of the market in fixed income, it's much larger than that in equities? Nick King: Yes, I'd say more like a third. Richard Edgar: A third. Ok. Has the pendulum gone too far yet, David? David Buckle: No I don’t think so. It's hard to put a number on it. The pendulum has gone too far when the market stops operating correctly and we’re clearly not there. In equities, the trend is in the direction that's already been laid out. I have to say in fixed income I'm not so convinced. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet regarding indices in fixed income is the indices in fixed income are what we call “constant maturity”: the bonds inside them are continually refreshed to keep it at a 10 year maturity. What we're seeing, is there's demand from investors who say, “Well, I know what my cash flow requirements are and therefore I need to hold the bonds to maturity. But I have no intention on continually extending the maturity, I just need them for the next 10 years and that's that.” So the notion of an index in fixed income is really quite different from the notion of an index in equities.   The investor’s perspective - who really cares? [skip to here] Richard Edgar: That's the backdrop I suppose for us now. What are clients thinking about when they're making the decisions about incorporating either of these approaches - or it’s not either: you talked, Marty, about a continuum. There's a whole spectrum of different levels between the two ideas. So Sonja, from your experience of talking to clients? Sonja Laud: I think what we've experienced is a rather one-sided debate for quite some time, which was obviously backed by the very positive beta backdrop, which allowed a very strong focus really just on the cost angle because passive seemed to fulfil everything that was needed. And if we consider the usual requirements of a client between risk, return, and now cost added to it, then obviously it's a triangular relationship that was very well helped by the market backdrop on the return side. Risk was very nicely manageable as well with volatility coming down, hence a very strong focus [of] “Ok, now let's just drive down costs.” If we are right in our forward looking statement that this is about to change, and that the beta return profile will moderate quite considerably, then investors will have to go back to the drawing board to find out how they can achieve the risk, return, cost angle that they have in mind. And what we've been experiencing so far is that there’s a lot more on net returns i.e. if there’s an active product that actually can deliver the excess return required then the clients are happy to see how this fits in the triangular relationship of the other two components, to make sure that they can achieve all of them. So a bit of a move away from just the cost angle to “Ok, now let’s get realistic on the other two as well.” Richard Edgar: David, this is your bread and butter. How does it play out as you design solutions? David Buckle: Yes, I think the key point is that most of the investors I speak to are really agnostic on the notion of passive versus active. They simply state an objective they’re trying to reach and there’s a cost restriction to reach it. So they are perfectly happy having a combination of active [and] passive. But the other element, which might be worth bringing Nick in for, is there's often a desire to have a particular fund structure - a type. And hitherto ETFs have been connected with passive (if you have any ETF, you’re passive). We have a lot of investors who like to use ETFs for other reasons - not because they're passive. So that's led them to have a passive investment, but that wasn't really the driver. Richard Edgar: Was it the liquidity instead? David Buckle: Yes and the fact it's on an exchange. Richard Edgar: Nick? Nick King: Yes, so many clients do like the convenience of the ETF wrapper. That's why we've chosen to offer our passive and smart beta products in a combination of mutual fund and ETF wrappers. But as David says, so far the vast majority of exchange traded products are index tracking products simply because there needs to be this requirement for transparency in order for the capital markets partners to provide liquidity on exchange for these products. However, there is a marketplace developing for active products and that's a space that we're going to watch closely. Richard Edgar: Marty? Marty Dropkin: There's an interesting follow up on the liquidity angle particularly within fixed income which historically has been a less liquid market. And when you think about ETFs and the bonds that go in ETFs - and there's a whole industry now to try and track which bonds are sitting in ETFs and which ones aren't sitting in ETFs and the market is trying to figure that out. That brings back the whole continuum of active and passive to the forefront as well. Which is: is it active? Is it passive? Is it actually passive if it's sitting in an ETF and everybody's already trying to game the system to figure out which bonds to buy. Richard Edgar: And the answer is? Marty Dropkin: The answer is: it depends. Richard Edgar: Excellent.   ESG: can passive be ethical? [skip to here] Well Sonja, you brought up ESG (environment, social, governance) questions - stewardship. First of all, before we talk about passive, this is a very much more important aspect of investing nowadays than it was in time gone by. Your argument, I assume, would be that only through active can people engage with the companies to try and bring about change? Sonja Laud: Overall, we are now witnessing much bigger demands towards us as the asset management industry to consider more societal issues in our selection process so that the pure corporate governance, improvement, and engagement goes beyond and is more specific towards those issues. Passive is well equipped to look at the best in class model and put it in a wrapper. Yet if we say we want to see improvement and engage with companies that probably today do not have the best ESG rating, this is where obviously we as active managers have a much bigger role to play. Because we can engage with corporates to say, “Ok, how do we get you from an ‘E’ rating to an ‘A’ rating?” And that obviously is a journey that from an investment and return angle could be potentially very interesting. And it's something we believe obviously only active can deliver at this point. Richard Edgar: Nick, would you agree? Because if you're chucking money in an index that's it, that's the end of the engagement isn't it? Nick King: I would say as the market for ESG products develops I think there’ll be a place for both active and passive products. At the passive end, there's a number of ESG data providers out there which can be used in a systematic strategy to get exposure to stocks which have good ESG credentials at low cost in a very transparent way. However, the passive products will always need to hold those companies. So whilst it can select those which have strong ESG characteristics it can’t exclude stocks because it doesn't like a particular element of its governance model. Richard Edgar: That's a sort of backward looking approach - talking about companies that already have good ESG credentials or not. What about actually bringing about change? How does that happen? David Buckle: I think ultimately here there is an argument you could make for passive management - and the active community would have to try and defend against it. And there's an argument for being active, which the passive has to defend. And this is the strongest argument for the active community. And the passive are defending it by saying that they're becoming more active. But the reality, as Nick's mentioned, is a passive manager cannot sell a security which is a big part of the index regardless of the efforts they might make to make it better on an ESG score. Richard Edgar: Sonja, how do you see this developing? Sonja Laud: I think there will be greater differentiation around the level of engagement, because as we know, [with] passive there are some claims that there would be greater engagement around voting at AGMs and things like that. Yet to me engagement really is sitting down with management to discuss what are the weak links in the ESG reports, what are the areas that we are concerned about and what is management doing to address these. Nick King: And I think that's very consistent with how we would distinguish between active and passive now. So you've got low cost, systematic exposure to equities. You can take that further and have ESG equities that way. And then as we also invest vast amounts of time in fundamental research for our active products you can further that with additional ESG research. So I think there's space for a broad range of products across the spectrum. Richard Edgar: So from an investors point of view, as well as society's needs then, having to balance the two different approaches and what they're able to deliver.   Active and passive: future symbiosis [skip to here] We're almost out of time so I'm going to ask each of you know to think what is it that you'd like to leave in our listeners minds when they're thinking about active and passive, and this question, has passive peaked? Let me come to Nick first. Nick King: I think the way you phrase your question is exactly correct: it's passive and active not passive versus active. And I think that there really is a place in portfolios for both. It's about identifying the places where you just want very efficient, low cost exposure to a particular asset class or segment of the market. And then using allocations to active and factor products where you want to have the potential to add some value. Richard Edgar: Marty? Marty Dropkin: We're just exiting a period where rates have come down and we’re starting to see rate rises. With that, I very strongly believe we will start to see more credit spread dispersion which means that this era of beta-like returns - whether it's equities or fixed income - is likely to slowly come to an end. And as that comes to an end and as differentiating between companies becomes that much more important that's where active will kick in. Richard Edgar: Sonja? Sonja Laud: I think investors really should be prepared for changes in the market backdrop and changes that will unfold over a long period of time, because we have to be realistic that  10 years of unprecedented monetary support will take a lot of time to normalise. I think investors will do very well to reassess their current allocation, not only in the context of a more moderate return profile going forward, but in the context of: maybe there's too much passive. Where are the areas we feel are the greatest opportunities not only for active but in general to invest in right now. Richard Edgar: So time for a review. David, finally, what would a portfolio of the future look like? David Buckle: It'll be a combination of active and passive. I don’t see it as a binary thing. But the one message I would leave - this is a message to any investor - is you have a duty of care for the market. And there’s a prisoner's dilemma: passive is cheaper wo what everyone wants is for them to be passive but everybody else to be active to keep the market going. So as much as you might choose some passive, do be cognisant of the fact that the more you move into passive the more you’re creating the risk that you’ll disrupt the market that you need to make your investment. Richard Edgar: There’s a symbiosis between the two, perhaps? David Buckle: Indeed. Richard Edgar: I'm afraid we are out of time now. Nick King, head of ETFs, Sonja Laud, head of equity, Marty Dropkin, head of research for fixed income, and David Buckle, head of investment solutions design at Fidelity. Thank you all. And thank you for listening to what I hope you agree has been a fascinating debate. Goodbye.

This week we’re going to take a look at interest rates. The Bank of England has cut interest rates to 0.25% - the first move in more than seven years. What does it mean for your investments? Let’s get started and kick off with Senior Emma Wall and Chief Investment Officer for EMEA’s Morningstar Investment Management, Dan Kemp who discuss the implications of this rate cut to investors Portfolios’   So interest rates have been cut by the Bank of England. But this is just the beginning of central bank action. What’s next? Head of quantitative research for fidelity, David Buckle is up next to explain.   How do you Protect Your Portfolio Against Rising Inflation? Miton Multi-Asset fund manager David Jane explains the risks of investing in a rising inflation environment with Emma Wall and how he protects his portfolio.   Up next, JO Hambro's Ben Leyland explains how quantitative easing has made quality stocks expensive - and warns investors they should prepare for a correction in the next 3 years.   With a rising stock market and projected economic growth of 1% for 2017, were initial post-Brexit forecasts overly pessimistic? What impact has Brexit had on investors since? Tom Beckett, Chief Investment Officer for Psigma is up next to discuss. Falling Interest Rates are Hitting Your Pension Income. If you think annuity rates are bad now? Wait until the Bank of England cuts rates further next month. We consider what your retirement income options are in this current environment.