Lesbian Testimony Podcast

“I came out when I was 40. So a lot of the period that we were covering which is about 1970 to 99, I came out in 1990 so I missed a lot of it. And it was invisible to me, the whole lesbian culture, completely invisible to me. Turned out half my friends were lesbian and I didn’t know it.” - Rose Norman For this bonus episode we talked to Rose Norman, the editor of the Southern Lesbian-Feminist Activist Herstory Project which puts on the annual Womonwrites conference to produce and collect Southern lesbian feminist activist writers’ stories. The project collective came out of the Women’s Movement of the 60’s and is in it’s 39th year of operation. Her academic research focused on American women’s autobiography and she is now a retired professor of English and women’s studies who grew up in rural Alabama and now lives in Huntsville, Alabama. We talk about the history of the conference, Southern lesbian feminist activist representation, the exploratory process of collecting interviews to document these women’s stories, and lesbian culture in the South. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“First I was a freak, then I was a queer, then I was a femme, then I was a lesbian feminist, I still am all these things, and then a queer femme lesbian feminist, I don't know if it's clear but maybe it's good that it's not clear. My primary definition is as a 50s femme.” - Joan Nestle For episode 25 we talked to Joan Nestle, Lauren Hortie, Mary Woo Sims, Nadine Boulay and Selly Chiam about lesbian identification and identity formation surrounding the word lesbian. Then afterwards we had a discussion with the archives director Elise Chenier and our archivist Meghan Walley of the clips and our take on the question what does the word lesbian mean? Thank you for a great year! Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“Cultures of dissemblance refers to a culture of practice within African American communities, specifically that black women practice. It’s about dissembling– hiding or shielding what your own interior feelings are, your own personal perspectives, when you are interacting specifically within a white atmosphere.” - Dalena Hunter For episode 24 we talked to Dalena Hunter. a Librarian at UCLA Bunche Center for African American Studies who is currently working on her thesis which explores how archives capture Black lesbian experiences and how these materials are used by researchers. We discuss record keeping culture, the racial bias in archival silences, cultures of dissemblance, and the power of memory and history in community. Look out for our next special episode where we ask our past guests “What does the term lesbian mean to you?” Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“To see her here now with us in this space of joy and laughter… It really worked for her life. It was exactly what she needed and she’s known that all along which I thought was so special. I don’t think you see that in many lives: people who have this core sense of truth and then can follow it through anything.” - Linds Tattersall For episode 23 we talked to Azra Poe and Lindsay Tattersall about their interview with Gretchen, a trans woman living in Nelson. We discuss Gretchen's experience surrounding trans surgery, identity, the language surrounding queerness, and what it looks like to pursue inner truth. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Dalena Hunter, a Librarian at UCLA Bunche Center for African American Studies who is currently working on her thesis which explores how archives capture Black lesbian experiences and how these materials are used by researchers. We discuss record keeping culture, cultures of dissemblance, and more! Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“Something broke down a few years ago and we moved to really hard and confusing times. We are still in the EU and we are still a democratic country but at some point everything started collapsing.” - Lena Bielska For episode 22 we talked to Lena Bielska and Liliana Piskorska about their new project called Lesbian Herstory Project in Poland implemented by their Herstory Foundation. HerStory Foundation includes oral history projects, workshops, self-defense seminars, and publishing ventures. Lesbian Herstory Project in Poland is the name of their new project that they are trying to start, all about lesbian women from 1945-1989. We also discuss the current status of queer politics in Poland. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Azra Poe and Lindsay Tattersall about their interview with Gretchen, a trans woman living in Nelson. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“The only reason you would network is if you got in your car and drove to Kelowna. That was the networking, you had to show up. In that was a restriction, but also there was this wonderful freedom becase, wow, to be face to face with a couple of hundred people at all those dances and festivals was really fun. You really felt like you were a part of something.” - Shonna Hayes For episode 21 we talked to Shonna Hayes, about her interview with Lil and her experience growing up as a lesbian, and we also discuss the changing queer culture in parrallel with the digital age. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Lena Bielska and Liliana Piskorska about their Lesbian Herstory Project called Fundacja Herstory in Poland. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“People are making films, people are doing photography projects. There’s a lot of celebratory things that are also happening here to say that the narrative around having an LGBT experience here on the continent isn’t always going to be suffering and isn’t always going to be violent.” - Selly Thiam For episode 20 we talked to Selly Thiam, founder and executive-director of None on Record, a digital media organization that works with African LGBT communities across the African continent and the diaspora. We discuss the transformative work None on Record is doing to shift perspectives and foster a creative culture of expression for African LGBT people. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Shonna Hayes, a Nelson resident who interviewed fellow community member Lil about the evolution of her lesbian experience. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“Lesbians weren’t ok in the feminist movement. And then lesbians became ok in the feminist movement but then lesbian feminists didn’t want S&M lesbians or dykes to be apart of their feminist movement. So, we get accepted and then we discriminate against somebody else behind us.” - Sarah Humble For episode 19 we talked to Sarah Humble, co-founder of the Women’s Leather History Program at the Leather Archives and Museum, about her interview with renowned leather community photographer Janet Ryan and her Differently Pleasured photography show of S&M culture. We also discuss the hanky system, feminist sex wars, and S&M lesbians in the lesbian feminist movement. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Selly Thiam, founder and executive-director of None on Record, a digital media organization that works with African LGBT communities across the African continent and the diaspora. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“We want to archive and collect stories on our own terms. A big part of documenting the history is documenting the history for us, by us. And that’s the big seed of everything, everything starts from the story. Everything starts from these interviews and relationships with these elders and the intergenerational connections.” - Indee Mitchell For episode 18 we talked to Bonnie Gabel and Indee Mitchell about their project Last Call: New Orleans Dyke Bar History Project. This project creates a digital archive of queer oral history, hosts a podcast series and tutorials and puts on live performances and events in service of these projects. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Sarah Humble about her interview with the queer photographer Janet Ryan that she submitted to The Leather Archives Museum. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“Because I couldn’t define it in terms of sexuality, it’s like you would try to define it in terms of gender.” - Interview with Ann, Beth, and Susan facilitated by Michael Riordon For episode 17 we talked to Michael Riordon about his experiences collecting interviews for his book Out Our Way: Gay and Lesbian Life in the Country. We discuss his interview with Ann, Beth, and Susan and how understanding the texture of queerness has had different implications over time. We also discuss the particularities of queer activism in rural areas. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Bonnie Gabel and Indee Mitchell and their project Last Call: New Orleans Dyke Bar History Project. This project creates a digital archive of queer oral history, hosts a podcast series and tutorials, and puts on live performances and events in service of these projects. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

overlooked tolerances "Upper class women could have romantic friendships before the 20th century as a result of their upper class status. They weren't dependent on men because they had their own money. So money and finances is an important part of being able to move outside of the home and outside of the traditional family unit to form relationships that were more congruent with their desires and attractions." - Ashley D. Cole For episode 16 we talked to Ashley D. Cole about her thesis “I just wanted to be who I was”: Documenting Queer Voices in the South. We talk about the southern toleration of certain queer acts during different eras of time and how they interesected with race and class. We also speak about the different historical antecedents for female queerness, acts and identities, and hidden oral histories. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Michael Riordon, oral historian and author of Out Our Way: Gay and Lesbian Life in the Country and Eating Fire: Family Life on the Queer Side. We will speak about his interviews conducted with Ann, Beth, and Susan who discuss encountering their queerness from a young age. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“The idea of the whole project was to catch seniors before they dropped their clogs.” - Greta Hurst For episode 15 we talked with Greta Hurst about her collecting of queer oral history from older queer folk in Vancouver community through the Generations project. We look at her interview with Libby Davies, activist and former MP, and her own experiences with the queer community through the past decades and being outed in 1956 in Montreal. We also discuss McCarthyism and the politics surrounding that time period. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Ashley D. Cole, the author of the thesis “I just wanted to be who I was”: Documenting Queer Voices in the South. We discuss the struggles of collecting queer oral testimony in the southern regions of the United States and the particularities of this region of testimony. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“Women had only been able to buy houses in their own names for less than a handful of years. The fair credit act only really comes in in the early 1970s. The world that they imagined, where lesbians could carve out a life that was meaningful was so much smaller than the world that I live in because of the extreme homophobia that they encountered, because of still so many realities of sexism that legislation and societal change has really affected from 1976 over the past 40 years.” - Julie Enszer For episode 14 we talked with Julie Enszer about her role as editor of the historic journal Sinister Wisdom and the changing roles of politics throughout the years of its publication. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Greta Hurst and her lifetime navigating queerness and collecting testimony. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“I call myself a combination between Barbara Walters and Oprah Winfrey in that I try to understand people’s motivations. I try to understand what brings someone to where they are." - Doug O'Keef For episode 12 we talked with Doug O’Keef about the Leather Archives Museum and his interview with the venerable Marge Summit who he interviewed about her experiences owning a lesbian bar. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Julie Enszer the editor of the long running lesbian magazine Sinister Wisdom. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“The part that makes it really interesting and specific to Toronto is the extra element of immigration and uncomfortable multiculturalism. We like to look back and think about how accepting Toronto is but really although there were certainly a lot of immigrants building our history, there was a lot of discrimination too." - Lauren Hortie For episode 12 we talked with Lauren Hortie, co-producer of the short film Midnight at the Continental. We addresses gentrification, immigration, movement hijacking, and butch femme politics and bar culture in 1955 Toronto. Look out for our next episode where we talk to Doug O’Keefe about his interview with the invincible Marge Summit for the Leather Archives Museum Collection. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“The larger oral history makes clear, and her published writing makes very clear, that Anita thought that she had, over the course of her life, 50s, 60s, 70s, distanced herself from the straight community because she was troubled and disgusted by heterosexual relationships. She separated herself from the black lesbian community because she found it was dominated by butch femme and she didn't like that. And she was also alienated from the black civil rights movement and black politics because she encountered sexism there. And there's one point in the interview when she talks about black male nationalists wanting their women to stop working for white men and work for them. So by the 70's she landed in the women's movement and while she was critical of racism in the women's movement I think ultimately she found a more friendly home in the multiracial women's movement. " - Marc Robert Stein For episode 11 we spoke to Marc Robert Stein about his interview with Anita Cornwell, author of Black Lesbian in White America in 1983. We discuss race, tensions of what is inherent and what is performed in gender, and the effect of race, class, gender, sexuality and geography on a lived historical experience. Next week we will speak with Lauren Hortie, co-producer of the short film Midnight at the Continental which addresses queer geography and butch femme politics in a 1955 Toronto. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“Self Activity of Femmes: I like this clip because it shows femme women as searching out lesbian partners. They’re not passive in finding sexual partners. The actually seek them out and they are very important in the development of lesbian life and lesbian communities." - Elizabeth Kennedy For episode 10 we spoke to Elizabeth Kennedy about her interview with Ann from her research that went into creating "Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: The History of A Lesbian Community.” We discuss butch/femme politics throughout history and the presence of racism and acceptance within the queer community in Buffalo, New York during the period of these interviews in the 1980’s. Look for our next episode with Marc Robert Stein, the creator of Philadelphia LGBT History Project. We will be speaking about his interviews with Anita Cornwell, a seminal American lesbian author who wrote the Black Lesbian in White America in 1983, and the intersections of race, class and geography discussed in her interview. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast. Here is the transcript of the clip section that was difficult to parse: Ann: I thought it was terrible that women went together. I talked about her like a dog. Oh hell yeah you couldn’t even convince me that there was anything right about that. I said it was ridiculous, terrible. She used to be my employee and I talked about her something terrible. But that same girl ended up seducing me but she used to get me drunk. Off that good Gordon Gin. Every time I went to her house we would just about kill a whole bottle and you know and they said I know something happened but I never knew what happened. And next time I came to her house she told me “You know I’m getting tired of these drunk actions from you” and I drank some more. Cause I would always get out of my mind I didn’t know what was going on cause I didn’t want… I was curious more than anything else. They always told me “lesbians will kill ya.” They were the wrong people to associate with. So I had a fear of lesbians because the first time I walked into a club in Cleveland, Ohio, this girl approached me in the ladies bathroom and demanded to kiss me and she scared me to death. And I didn’t want to kiss her and she grabbed the whiskey bottle like she was gonna hit me with it and another girl snatched her out of there. And that was my first encounter with a gay lady and that really scared me. I really thought they were crazy, she was drunk out of her mind, you know. And that same woman ended up killing a couple people though, really! She really did. She ended up committing murder. But it wasn’t women it was men she killed it was men. But that was the first gay lady I ever met and she really scared me. She was high in the bathroom, I don’t know what she had but she scared me to death. You know and I said, “Oh my god they’re really like that!” Elizabeth Kennedy: Just like your mother said!

“Coming from a time when women were still associated with the private sphere, those relationships would be felt as very private, but with the lesbian feminist generation, being very visible and saying this is my identity and creating community around that identity, moving from the private to the public sphere, it really changed how people felt about sexuality." - Nadine Boulay For episode 9 we spoke to Nadine Boulay about her interview with Christine and Robin, seminal figures in Vancouver queer activism in the 70’s and 80’s, family politics in the queer experience, and how the concept of sexuality has shifted over time. Look for our next episode with Liz Kennedy most famously known for co-authoring "Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: The History of A Lesbian Community," which required a lot of oral interviewing of the the lesbian community in Buffalo, New York in the decades before Stonewall. We listen to one of her interviews from her research for that book and discuss the changing tides of feminism and queer politics. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“We didn’t want to go up there to save anybody or tell anybody how they should think about identity of sexuality or family structure. We just wanted to let people speak and ideally what we can provide is to get that story and those voices out there." - Mark Kenneth Woods For episode 8 we spoke to Mark Kenneth Woods about his documentary "Two Soft Two Hard" about the queer histories and realities of Inuit people in Nunavut. We discuss ethical considerations approaching this kind of oral history work, colonization’s effect on historial identities, and the rising queer youth generation. Look for our next episode with Nadine Boulay where we listen to and discuss her interview with women who were seminal in Vancouver queer activism in the 70’s and 80’s, and family politics in the queer experience. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

"In archive intervention, artist actually use the archives to create new artwork but it's not just research based it's also a way to expose some of the silences in archives." - Rebecka Sheffield For episode 7 we spoke to Rebecka Sheffield about her project The Beside Table Archives where she interviewed women about the contents of their bedside tables which sparked nuanced conversations of queer life and the queer experience. We discuss archive intervention, and the methodology of collecting oral history. Look for our next episode with filmmaker Mark Kenneth Woods when we talk about his documentary "Two Soft Two Hard" about the queer histories and realities of Inuit people in Nunavut. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“When we actually began to unpack these women’s histories, it wasn’t that, perhaps as they initially thought, that oh they only became a lesbian in their forties and fifties when they officially came out, it was quite evident that this had been running as a current in their lives since they were teenagers and that they had ignored it or not understood it and taken the road that most people were moving down for a whole host of reasons.” - Valerie Korinek For episode 6 we spoke to Valerie Korinek about her chapter in the upcoming 2018 anthology, Beyond Women's Words. We discuss her chapter titled “Locating Lesbians, Finding ‘Gay Women,’ Writing Queer Histories: Reflections on Oral Histories, Identity, and Community Memory” and the issues of naming and identification in the queer community when trying to conduct oral history research. Watch out for our next episode when we speak to Rebecka Sheffield's collected interviews for her project The Beside Table Archives where she interviewed women about the contents of their bedside tables which lead to many interesting narratives of queer experience. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast. To see more from Valerie Korinek check out her website, two recently published chapter contributions, and forthcoming book. VJ Korinek, “We’re the girls of the pansy parade” Historie Sociale/Social History (2012) VJ Korinek, “A Queer Eye View of the Prairies” in the A. Finkel, Sarah Carter and Peter Fortna, The West and Beyond: New Perspectives on an Imagined Region (2010) Forthcoming book: VJ Korinek, Prairie Fairies: A History of Queer Communities and People in Western Canada, 1930-1985 (University of Toronto Press) forthcoming in Spring/Summer 2018 http://artsandscience.usask.ca/profile/VKorinek#/profile

"Often a person you’re interviewing will take themselves through the emotion, to the other side." - Cameron Duder For episode 4 we spoke to Cameron Duder about their interview of Shirley Petten who won a same sex benefits landmark ruling against the British Columbia Workers’ Compensation Board after the tragedy of losing her partner. We also discuss how to navigate interviewing someone about difficult topics, and how to interview someone you know well. Watch out for our next episode when we speak to Valerie Korinek on her incredible research of rural queer communities. Specifically we will discuss her chapter titled “Locating Lesbians, Finding ‘Gay Women,’ Writing Queer Histories: Reflections on Oral Histories, Identity, and Community Memory” for an upcoming anthology. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

“Gender is both a social construct, a desire, and also what material possibilities impact on it." - Joan Nestle For episode 4 we spoke to Joan Nestle a long-time activist, educator, and writer who has made landmark contributions to lesbian culture and history. She is the author of Restricted Country, the editor of A Persistent Desire: A Butch-Femme Reader, and the co-founder of the Lesbian Herstory Archives in Brooklyn, New York. Today we will discuss one of her interviews from the Herstory archive with Mabel Hampton, an African American lesbian born in 1902. We discuss the changes over time of lesbian norms, language and politics and how one's positionality as the interviewer is complicated by our historical limitations. Watch out for our next episode when we speak to Cameron Duder, about his interview of Shirley Petten who won a same sex benefits landmark ruling against the British Columbia Workers’ Compensation Board. Follow this channel for more great content! Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast. Mabel Hampton Tapes http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/document/SPW63 Herstory Archives website http://www.lesbianherstoryarchives.org/

For episode 3 we spoke to Candice Klein, a graduate student in the History department at SFU, about one of her oral history interviews she donated to the Archives of Lesbian Oral Testimony through the Lesbian Generations in Vancouver collection. We play a clip from that interview and discuss her current dissertation on "Conflict and the Vancouver Indochinese Women’s Conference of 1971," the clash and convergence of lesbian feminist politics in the 70's, and trans visibility. Watch out for our next episode when we speak to Joan Nestle, feminist heavyweight and cofounder of the Herstory Archives in Brooklyn! Follow this channel for more great content. Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

Our guest for this podcast is Ma-Nee Chacaby, a lesbian, two-spirit, Ojibwa-Cree elder from Ontario. We will be discussing her new memoir “A Two-Spirit Journey: The Autobiography of a Lesbian Ojibwa-Cree Elder,” her LGBT activism, coming into a full understanding of sexual identity, and her involvement in oral teaching how we can preserve oral teaching. Next episode will speak to Candice Klein, a graduate student in the History department at SFU. We will discuss her new research on the Indochinese Women’s Conference of 1971, lesbian feminism of the 70’s, trans visibility, and more! Follow this channel for more great content. Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.

Music by Tegan Wahlgren Host Callie Hitchcock talks to Archives of Lesbian Testimony director Elise Chenier for the first episode of Lesbian Testimony: a podcast to encourage greater engagement with lesbian oral records. Each week we will talk to a donor of the archive about one of their submissions or talk to an oral historian involved in lesbian oral history. Next episode will be Ma-Nee Chacaby, a lesbian, two-spirit, Ojibwa-Cree elder from Ontario. We will discuss her new memoir “A Two-Spirit Journey: The Autobiography of a Lesbian Ojibwa-Cree Elder” and much more! Follow this channel for more great content. Please share, like, and send us feedback about the podcast.