Waves to Wisdom Interviews

To listen to the interview, scroll to the Player at the bottom of the page. Learn more about coaching with MaiaI think will be very beneficial for everybody to take a look at the ocean, smell it, listen to if you're brave enough stick your toes in it. It will surprise you. There are some people who have a lot of fears about it but I believe in in learning about dangerous things that you deem fearful. You can go far. With knowledge there comes power. so a healthy education about the ocean with would definitely be a first step I would suggest. Theres a lot of learning to do but comes with steps or waves, if you if you will. ~Brad Turner Photos of Brad courtesy of Lesley Gourley at https://www.photohunter.net/ UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-110248")); UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-818094")); Show Notes Black Girls Surf on Instagram Surfrider Foundation Activist Spotlight on Rhonda Harper and Black Girls/Inkwell Surf Brad Turner on Instagram Reuters Article on Solidarity In Surf Historian Alison Rose Jefferson Article about The Inkwell– a historically black beach in Santa Monica 2021 NY Times Article about how black-owned coastal property and generational wealth were stolen Brief blog post (from the wonderful ‘Color of Water’ series) by historian David Cecelski about The Freeman Family Psychology Today article about the benefits of Surf Therapy for PTSD “On Being White and Other Lies” 1984 Essay by James Baldwin A thought-provoking article on whiteness by a white woman Blue Mind Research and References Interview with Blue Mind instigator Dr. Wallace J Nichols on The Unmistakable Creative Proposal- Surfrider Position *An update on Brad’s important work: Brad has gone on temporary hiatus in his work with Black Girls Surf and Inkwell Surf. Check his Instagram for updates! In the meanwhile, this organization and the others listed above continue the inspiring and empowering work of addressing historical inequities and bringing equal access to the waves. UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-148875")); Transcript Brad: I think will be very beneficial for everybody to take a look at the ocean, smell it, listen to if you’re brave enough stick your toes in it. It will surprise you. There are some people who have a lot of fears about it but I believe in in learning about dangerous things that you deem fearful. You can go far. With knowledge there comes power. so a healthy education about the ocean with would definitely be a first step I would suggest. Theres a lot of learning to do but comes with steps or waves, if you if you will. Intro Maia: We are deep in the winter of the Great Pandemic. We are losing so much but we are also learning and growing in ways that seem long overdue and right on time. The same week in which I’m recording this introduction, Brad Turner and I did what a zillion other people did, we logged onto a Zoom call. It was a conversation that came about because Brad was and is a generous teacher and collaborator. He’s also walking around with one of the biggest hearts I’ve encountered in the world of ocean-loving humans. The particular Zoom was the latest step in a journey we’d just begun earlier this year, when we recorded this interview. On my Zoom screen were members of the Surfrider Foundation from all over the country logged on for a discussion with historian Scott Laderman author of the book Empire in Waves: A Political History of Surfing. For those of you who don’t know much about Surfrider, here is the organization’s mission statement: The Surfrider Foundation is dedicated to the protection and enjoyment of the world’s ocean, waves and beaches, for all people, through a powerful activist network. This conversation with Dr. Laderman was the second in an ongoing series Brad and I are organizing through our local Surfrider chapter and putting up on a YouTube channel...

To listen to the interview, scroll to the Player at the bottom of the page. Learn more about coaching with Maia" ...it was a very difficult time but then you know it's when things are falling apart is when you really get a chance to make things happen so as I tell somebody when I took over the position, I'm tenured, I got my citizenship and I don't give a shit." ~Dr. Antonio Puente UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-157707")); UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-173052")); UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-205754")); Show Notes Dr. Antonio Puente’s Website Dr. Puente’s Twitter Feed Blue Mind Research and References Interview with Blue Mind instigator Dr. Wallace J Nichols on The Unmistakable Creative Introduction to Aloha Waves to Wisdom post about Aloha UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-106519")); Transcript Tony: it was a very difficult time but then you know it’s when things are falling apart is when you really get a chance to make things happen so as I tell somebody when I took over the position, I’m tenured, I got my citizenship and I don’t give a shit. Maia: I’m Maia Dery How do you feel when somebody or something with much more power than you have, knocks you down? Or tells you or maybe even shows you aren’t good enough?
What do you do about it? Get back up? Struggle to not believe the naysayer? Or ignore the knock-down?
Try to learn something so you can come back with more capacity and strength? 
 When I recorded this interview with Dr. Antonio Puente, who, among other things, is an avid surfer and celebrated neuropsychologist, we couldn’t know how much this pandemic would knock us all down. But I suspect that, had we known about the coming challenges, the interview wouldn’t not have been much different. 

Surfing and all ocean play, after all, are practices of scanning, of seeking, of developing relationship with something powerful over which you have absolutely no control and, at least for the first umpteen years, of getting knocked down over and over again. The kind of play is also a way to connect, with yourself, with the more than human world, and with other humans. Whether you love waves or weaving, hiking or haiku writing, some kind of passionate, disciplined engagement in an endeavor that allows your body to come into nuanced collaboration with the wider world is, I believe, one of the most rewarding ways to inhabit your time. In Dr. Puente’s case, it seems to have helped him overcome some long odds and some powerful forces that might have kept him from becoming who he is now. In addition to being an inspiring surfing story this tale of an immigrant boy overcoming long odds is, I think, also a great American story. This episode is dedicated, with love and so much aloha, to the memory of Tiko Losano. Welcome to Waves to Wisdom Antonio: I’m Antonio Puente, or Tony as some people call me. I started surfing I believe in 1964, in Jacksonville Beach, Florida. It’s been quite some time. Maia: So, you were just little boy. Antonio: Yep, on a wooden, woody surfboard. It looked more like a battleship than a surfboard. As you paddled out the waves actually broke for you. ..this is not, you know, as you catch the wave, as you paddle out, as you paddle out the waves would part for you. Maia: You had a little Moses effect on them. Would you just talk a little bit about where we’re sitting right now?

Antonio: Sure, this is a club called The Surf Club. It’s towards the north end of Wrightsville Beach and it’s a beautiful, small pavilion overlooking the ocean. And we’re very fortunate to be away from the wind but in front of the view...

To listen to the interview, scroll to the Player at the bottom of the page. Learn more about coaching with Maia"...when I surf I could just sit there, and I know I'm black, and I can tell by some of the stares, people are going, 'Oh, look, a black woman.' But I can just sit there and shut down for a bit. That's nice."~ Surf Sista Mary UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-746740")); UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-239610"));Show Notes and Further Reading Mary’s Blog: Black People Don’t Surf Derrick Adams’ Water Paintings Swim Beyond: A 501 (c)(3) Non-profit that maintains a scholarship fund to help those who do not have the financial means to participate in swim lessons. Black Kids Swim: An organization whose priority is “creating and protecting excellence in Black children.”  From their website: “Black Kids Swim will share our activities to unify and strengthen the African diaspora through a love of swimming.” NY TIMES Article about racism and American pools. Trailer for documentary The Black Line. Trailer for documentary White Wash about African American surfers Interview with Neuroscientist Arne Dietrich on Flowstate Nina Simone Interview UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-189363")); UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-251129")); UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-108955"));Interview Transcript   INTRODUCTION Surf Sista Mary: What you don’t understand about being black or being gay or being, you know, Latino or Muslim is you’re always reminded of it. So if you’re white, you can just go through life and be white. But if you’re a different group something is always reminding you. The president says something or there’s something on the news or somebody goes to a mosque and shoots up the place. All those things remind you, oh you’re not like everybody else, even though you are. But when I surf I could just sit there, and I know I’m black, and I can tell by some of the stares, people are going, “Oh, look, a black woman.” But I can just sit there and shut down for a bit. That’s nice. Maia: In a 1970 interview with the late great Nina Simone, the interviewer asks what freedom is. Simone says, “I’ll tell you what freedom is to me, no fear… like a new way of seeing…” This interview was recorded in the summer of 2019. A lot has changed since my shared sessions with Surf Sista Mary. The day I am recording this introduction is June 19th, 2020. That was unintentional but welcome coincidence. For anyone who doesn’t know its Juneteenth— a holiday that commemorates the day in 1865 when a Union general announced to the African Americans of Galveston Texas that they were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation, which President Lincoln had signed two and a half years earlier. Word spread quickly among Texas’s black population and previously enslaved people released themselves into the promise of freedom. In so many ways that promise was and still is that promise was delayed, and then just outright betrayed, through a combination of many legal and policy decisions, outright terror and violence, and all kinds of cultural currents and habits. It feels to me like, in just the last couple of weeks, something 7changed. It has begun to feel like there is hope. Like there is reason to believe that the promise of an America of the people, by the people, and for the people might have some life left in it yet. That liberty and justice for all could be, after 400 years, a thing we on this land between two seas move towards together. In other words, it’s started to feel like we white people are waking up to a world, and to a possibility that has been right here all along. This episode was initially scheduled to come out in early March of 2020, but I decided to delay this season’s podcast.

To listen to the interview, scroll to the Player at the bottom of the page. Learn more about coaching with Maia"If you have the chance to get closer to the ocean that’s gonna be life changing. Maybe you’re not living the life you wanted or always expected to be, I think the ocean might help you a little bit to decide here’s my priorities now and this is what I want to do."~ Dr. Nathalie Arias if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-143063")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-703231")); }Show Notes and Further Reading 2014 Article Describing Economic Inequality in the Trans-national Surf Communities of Nosara and Samara Costa Rica, from the Center For Responsible Travel 2019 Article from The Lancet Reporting on a SYstematic Review of the Lack of Nutritional Training in Medical Schools Conocer: A Responsible, Socially Engaged Tour Operator in Nosara, Costa RIca if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-117691")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-294982")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-179851")); }Interview Transcript   INTRODUCTION My name is Maia Dery. The Waves to Wisdom interviews are the result of an exploration into a world I discovered when I learned to surf at mid-life. Some of these conversations aren’t necessarily with people who we would instantly recognize as leaders but they are all leading us in a direction I instinctively followed and have benefitted tremendously in the process. Some of them don’t have huge audiences, but they are living very large lives. To me, these people all seem to have wisdom practices centered in their relationship to the more-than-human world, to what we usually think of as “nature.” Surfing proved first revelatory, then revolutionary in my life. I thought I was creative, thought I knew and loved water, thought I took care of my body. But when I entered the world of surfing and waves, when I started to ritualistically return to a literal edge, I realized my vision for my life had been hampered by some artificial barriers. Slowly, with each wave and wipeout, those barriers in my brain, heart, and body began to dissolve. I began to wonder, what if we all had a nature based practice that cracked us open? Made us more creative? Allowed us to reliably let go with the abandon of play? Of unbridled joy? What if we all practiced vulnerability, risk and failure on a daily basis and they were fun? Wouldn’t it make our lives better? Wouldn’t it lead us to the places it feels like, in this moment of planetary peril, we need to go? Whether you find full bodied and big hearted connection through waves or walking or digging in the dirt, I hope you find these conversations useful in your own journey of re-inhabiting your life with renewed joy, deep engagement, and increasing wisdom. Dr. Nathalie: Dr. Nathalie: If you have the chance to get closer to the ocean that’s gonna be life changing. Maybe you’re not living the life you wanted or always expected to be, I think the ocean might help you a little bit to decide here’s my priorities now and this is what I want to do. Maia: A couple of years ago, I left my full time job as a college instructor, one of the ways I dealt with the existential terror inherent in taking the leap into entrepreneurship and, even more frightening, radical freedom. I knew that, no matter what happened,

To listen to the interview, scroll to the Player at the bottom of the page. Learn more about coaching with Maia"You're always evolving but at some point you have to discover your true essence, who you are. I’m Maureen and I'm a surfer and that's who I have always been.And for most of us as older transitioners, who’ve been through what we've been through, we don't want to see younger kids struggle the way we did. We want to allow the younger trans population to experience themselves early. But for most of us older transitioners, it’s, you reach a point where it's transition or die."~ Maureen McNamara if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-142468")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-163761")); }Show Notes Maureen McNamara’s article about being a trans surfer in The Inertia Maureen McNamara’s Instagram One of Maureen’s surf style heroes: Leah Dawson The first mainstream surf documentary: The Endless Summer A brief article in The Inertia putting The Endless Summer in historical context Britannica entry on Tiresias Resources for transgender youth Resources for parents of transgender children Find an LGBT supportive therapist if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-130754")); }A Few of Maureen's Photos if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-208906")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-128939")); }Interview Transcript   INTRODUCTION My name is Maia Dery. The Waves to Wisdom interviews are the result of an exploration into a world I discovered when I learned to surf at mid-life. Some of these conversations aren’t necessarily with people who we would instantly recognize as leaders but they are all leading us in a direction I instinctively followed and have benefitted tremendously in the process. Some of them don’t have huge audiences, but they are living very large lives. To me, these people all seem to have wisdom practices centered in their relationship to the more-than-human world, to what we usually think of as “nature.” Surfing proved first revelatory, then revolutionary in my life. I thought I was creative, thought I knew and loved water, thought I took care of my body. But when I entered the world of surfing and waves, when I started to ritualistically return to a literal edge, I realized my vision for my life had been hampered by some artificial barriers. Slowly, with each wave and wipeout, those barriers in my brain, heart, and body began to dissolve. I began to wonder, what if we all had a nature based practice that cracked us open? Made us more creative? Allowed us to reliably let go with the abandon of play? Of unbridled joy? What if we all practiced vulnerability, risk and failure on a daily basis and they were fun? Wouldn’t it make our lives better? Wouldn’t it lead us to the places it feels like, in this moment of planetary peril, we need to go? Whether you find full bodied and big hearted connection through waves or walking or digging in the dirt, I hope you find these conversations useful in your own journey of re-inhabiting your life with renewed joy, deep engagement, and increasing wisdom. Maureen McNamara: You’re always evolving but at some point you have to discover your true essence, who you are.

To listen to the interview, scroll to the Player at the bottom of the page. Learn more about coaching with Maia"As a Tico Nosareño and surfer, I love this place. It’s so good. This place is magical. A lot of things that you can learn. The waves, surfing is so good. Just like taking off like just get up on the wave, it’s gonna feel like something magical inside of you, like butterflies on your belly, something like that, it’s gonna like, feels like, this is like heaven." ~Kevin Pipin Carillo if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-879427")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-323065")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-163883")); }Show Notes The ATV tour service, Pippin Rentals, Kevin and his family operate in Nosara. The surf school where Kevin teaches, Safari Surf. National Geographic Article on Blue Zones (where people routinely live longer than average) Peer reviewed article about how research into Blue Zones led to this conclucion: “putting the responsibility of curating a healthy environment on an individual does not work, but through policy and environmental changes the Blue Zones Project Communities have been able to increase life expectancy, reduce obesity and make the healthy choice the easy choice for millions of Americans.” Who to contact to book tortilla lesson when you’re visiting Nosara (Conocer) Wikipedia Entry on Catalan Interview Transcript Intro Part 1 My name is Maia Dery. The Waves to Wisdom interviews are the result of an exploration into a world I discovered when I learned to surf at mid-life. Some of these conversations aren’t necessarily with people who we would instantly recognize as leaders but they are all leading us in a direction I instinctively followed and have benefitted tremendously in the process. Some of them don’t have huge audiences, but they are living very large lives. To me, these people all seem to have wisdom practices centered on their relationship to the more-than-human world, to what we usually think of as “nature.” Surfing proved first revelatory, then revolutionary in my life. I thought I was creative, thought I knew and loved water, thought I took care of my body. But when I entered the world of surfing and waves, when I started to ritualistically return to a literal edge, I realized my vision for my life had been hampered by some artificial barriers. Slowly, with each wave and wipeout, those barriers in my brain, heart, and body began to dissolve. I began to wonder, what if we all had a nature based practice that cracked us open? Made us more creative? Allowed us to reliably let go with the abandon of play? Of unbridled joy? What if we all practiced vulnerability, risk and failure on a daily basis and they were fun? Wouldn’t it make our lives better? Wouldn’t it lead us to the places it feels like, in this moment of planetary peril, we need to go? Whether you find full bodied and big hearted connection through waves or walking or digging in the dirt, I hope you find these conversations useful in your own journey of re-inhabiting your life with renewed joy, deep engagement, and increasing wisdom. Kevin: As a Tico Nosareño and surfer, I love this place. It’s so good. This place is magical. A lot of things that you can learn. The waves, surfing is so good. Just like taking off like just get up on the wave, it’s gonna feel like something magical inside of you, like butterflies on your belly, something like that, it’s gonna like, feels like, this is like heaven. Intro Part 2

To listen to the interview, scroll to the Player at the bottom of the page. Learn more about transformational coaching with Maia if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-840627")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-798892")); }"... with ALS when you lose muscle that includes tongue and throat and so swallowing can be a challenge and aspiration, choking can be a danger. So he does aspirate and choke a little bit sometimes... he feels like he’s able to get through that because of skills he learned from surfing when you get pounded and knocked under and your rolling around having to hold your breath underwater and stay calm and you know find your way through it and find your way up." ~Ruth Coleman for Michael if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-164666")); } Show Notes Website of the brilliant author, polymath, and public intellectual Rebecca Solnit What is ALS? NOAA Weather Radio Donate to ALS Research Article Encouraging Thoughtfulness Among International Travelers from the Developed World if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-164209")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-849559")); }Interview Transcript Introductory note about this show: I know from soliciting feedback from subscribers that many of you all are reading the transcripts rather than listening to the recording. In this case, I hope you will listen to at least some of it. As I note in the interview, Waves to Wisdom is on a fundamental level, a multidisciplinary exploration of how we can deepen and enhance relationship. Listening to the exchange between Michael and Ruth’s voices is, to my heart and ear, more powerful than the content itself. All of these interviews are edited (the initial conversations can extend over hours) and I do not, as a matter of course, ask interviewees how they feel about the edited conversation. Rather, I ask for their trust up front. But Michael was hesitant about whether he wanted his voice out in the world and I wanted to make doubly sure he was happy with the result. He didn’t love the sound of his voice but, as he astutely noted, who does? Transcript Intro: My name is Maia Dery. This episode is part of a series called the Waves to Wisdom Interviews. The project is a simple one. I seek out people I admire, surfers who seem to me to have ocean centered wisdom practices. Usually, I ask them to share a surf session or two and, after we’ve ridden some waves together, talk to me about their oceanic habits, about surfing, work, meaning, anything that comes up. All of the episodes so far have spoken to the benefits and beauty of a long, intimate relationship between two bodies, the surfer and the ocean. This one’s a little different. Michael Coleman has been a surfer for more than 40 years. Just 8 years ago, he was diagnosed with a debilitating illness meant he had to face letting go of riding waves and, eventually, getting in the water at all. But the waves continue to infuse his life with wisdom, both practical and profound. He and his wife Ruth Coleman were generous enough to share some of Michael’s story and, although we couldn’t be in the ocean in the same place and time, both Colemans left me so deeply inspired I’ve carried them with me into almost every wave I’ve ridden since our time together. Oceanic wisdom comes in many forms. In her book, A Field Guide to Getting Lost, Rebecca Solnit wrote about the way hermit crabs look for shells that weren’t re...

To listen to the interview, scroll to the Player at the bottom of the page. Learn more about our next retreat to Nosara, Costa Rica. if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-675027")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-117745")); }"... my whole neurological being, body, mind, and spirit, is enhanced when I get in the water. And when I come out my perception, my storytelling about any particular "problem" is, it's just redefined. I don't sweat the small stuff." ~Elsa Rivera if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-161734")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-596432")); } Show Notes GI Josie Website Britannica Entry About Yemonja Blue Mind Book Outside Magazine Article about Blue Mind and J Wallace Nichols “How Water Makes Us Happier, Healthier, and More Successful” Trailer for Documentary about Women Veterans Suffering from Military Sexual Trauma Article About Military Sexual Trauma if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-120908")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-220630")); }Interview Transcript   Intro Maia: My name is Maia Dery. This episode impart of a series called the Waves to Wisdom Interviews. The project is a simple one. I seek out people I admire, surfers with what look to me to be ocean centered wisdom practices. I ask them if they’d be willing to share a surf session or two and then, after we’ve ridden some waves together, talk to me about their oceanic habits: about surfing, work, meaning, anything that comes up. Elsa: Seeing these grown women who can connect with that joy inside themselves even with, when they’re on land, even on the dry sand telling, sharing stories about why that it’s possibly not for them, or it’s too fearful because they have circumstances at home that has have oppressed them, suppressed their joy somehow. They have access to that by getting in. Maia: Elsa Rivera is a devoted surfer, committed community servant, immigrant, and successful business manager. Our conversation took place overlooking the Pacific on California’s incomparable Central Coast. We’d ridden the chilly waves of a spectacular stretch of shore where graceful arms of kelp and barking, splashing marine mammals can make you feel, for a moment, like you’re a part of a vast ecosystem, a thriving planet abundant with life. Elsa’s clarity of priority and purpose, and the role her relationship with the ocean plays in that clarity, add delicious nuance to this ongoing story of the power and plain utility of cultivating and stewarding a relationship to the ocean. Welcome to Waves to Wisdom. Maia: If you are comfortable with it would you tell us your name and age and where you live? Elsa:  Elsa Rivera, I’m 55 years old and I live in Monterey California Maia: Excellent and did you grow up in Monterey? Elsa: I’m originally from Columbia. I grew up in Columbia until I was nine and then till 1981 I grew up in Santa Monica. Maia: This morning we surfed together for the first time Elsa: We sure did Maia: We did. We surfed at Asilomar. It’s a place that I have watched people surf before and it’s always been remarkably intimidating to me it seems, well it is very rocky and it also seems prone to wind,

To listen to the interview scroll to the media player at the bottom of the page. Learn More About Our Next Retreat in Nosara, Costa Rica SHOW NOTES Links also available in transcript. Joanna Frye’s Website 180 South Trailer on Vimeo Kyle Thiermann 2018 Interview with Filmmaker Chris Malloy Conservación Patagonica Tompkins Conservation Bob Ross (yes, Bob Ross!) documentary Information about painter Egon Schiele Interview Transcript Maia: My name is Maia Dery. This episode is part of a series called the Waves to Wisdom Interviews. The project is a simple one. I seek out people I admire— surfers, with what look to me to be ocean centered wisdom practices. I ask them if they’d be willing to share a surf session or two and then, after we’ve ridden some waves together, talk to me about their oceanic habits: about surfing, work, meaning, anything that comes up. Joanna: Christians tend to isolate their spirituality from everything else. It happens on Sundays or in the early morning or some such and surfing, being in the ocean specifically, is like experience… experiencing God everywhere, all over, not just in my brain. Joanna Frye is a visual artist and surfer who a few years ago decided to make a bold move. One of my favorite authors, Annie Dillard, once wrote “How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. What we do with this hour, and that one, is what we are doing.” Joanna wasn’t entirely happy with the shape of her hours so she left her day job to try to earn a living by selling her paintings and found object assemblages. She’s a devout Christian who loves to paint the female nude and now a dear friend from whom I’ve learned a great deal. Maybe, most important for me, I’ve gotten a long needed understanding of how much my fear has gotten in the way of my connecting with others who don’t think like I do. Joanna played a crucial role in my own gradual, halting process of gradually overcoming a nearly lifelong fear of Christians, spurred on by the rhetoric of the the religious right combined with the fact that my own life turned out to be not so heterosexual. If our interview gives you just a sliver of all I’ve learned from this courageous, talented, and creative woman, you’ll leave this interview with an abundant gift. Welcome to Waves to Wisdom. Maia: If you are comfortable with it, tell us your name, age and how long you’ve been surfing. Joanna: Okay. I’m Joanna Frye and 37. I’m not quite sure of the next answer— probably 12 years 10 years 12 years. Maia: Ok, so you were grown up when you learned how to surf [I was a grown up].  Tell that story how did you decide you needed to learn that? Joanna: I moved to California and had lived there for a year and was watching people surf and thought it was really cool and was sitting there and just thought why aren’t you doing it if you think it’s so cool? And I had friends that were in the surf industry working for Surfline and so they kind of, on a trip to Mexico to camp and they threw me on a longboard and pushed me into waves and that was that. Maia: Did you love it from the very first time? Joanna: From the very first time. Maia: Did you catch a wave that first day? Joanna: I did. I don’t know I if I stood up I don’t really have a memory except for being freezing. I had no wetsuit I was in a bathing suit in, near Ensenada freezing. I got hit in the head with the board, I remember that [Laugh]. Maia: OK, and then you came back to California and what happened next in your surfer story? Joanna: Next, I spent, I had $155 in my bank account and I spent $150 on a 6’6” little thruster,

To listen to the interview, scroll to the Media Player at the bottom of this page. Reserve space on our next retreat to Nosara, Costa Rica. "I think that increasingly as more and more women take to the water we are demanding that we are looked at differently than we have been in the past that we are athletes that we are courageous and confident and that that carries over into our everyday life. When I leave the water I don't leave those things on the beach I take them with me..."~Elizabeth Pepin Silva if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-196691")); } Interview Transcript Maia: My name is Maia Dery. This episode impart of a series called the Waves to Wisdom Interviews. The project is a simple one. I seek out people I admire, surfers with what look to me to be ocean centered wisdom practices. I ask them if they’d be willing to share a surf session or two and then, after we’ve ridden some waves together, talk to me about their oceanic habits: about surfing, work, meaning, anything that comes up. Elizabeth Pepin Silva (EPS): I think that increasingly as more and more women take to the water we are demanding that we are looked at differently than we have been in the past that we are athletes that we are courageous and confident and that that carries over into our everyday life. When I leave the water I don’t leave those things on the beach I take them with me every day and it has given me strength in my everyday life that I don’t think I had before I surfed, that’s a profound thing, to be able to just be your, your own person, to just be you and be okay with it. My conversation with photographer, filmmaker, and writer Elizabeth Pepin Silva took place over two crystal clear California days. We spent time with her friends and family in her hometown of Ojai and had a chance to explore a couple of the nearby surf breaks. Elizabeth’s work as a photographer and filmmaker has heavily influenced my view of surfing and, more importantly, how I see my own place in that world. No surprise at all after seeing her films, her ability to articulate the story of her life’s work and the way it’s been fueled by what we generally think of as play as remarkable. I hope you enjoy her wise words. Maia: if you are comfortable with it would you tell us your name your age and how long you been surfing. EPS: I am Elizabeth Pepin Silva and I am almost 52 I will be 52 July 30th and I’ve been surfing for 31 years. Maia: So, you are a photographer and filmmaker… EPS: And writer Maia: and writer. Can you talk a little bit about your work and the focus of it? EPS: Most of my work has been focused on Ocean and water related things. I, excuse me, all of my personal work is always ocean related and often time of ocean -related and women and I’m really interested in that intersection between humans and nature and how that plays out in people’s lives and also the impact that we have on nature but also the way that nature impacts us in the and definitely that’s the case in oceans and coastlines around the world. Maia and you are a surfer currently active EPS: yeah I started surfing in 1980, I thought it was 86, but then when I actually this year I finally come about as I was my 30th anniversary I gotta like figure this out and then I realize that actually I had started surfing in the fall of 1985 and when my friend moved into this house in Marin, I wanted to serve before that but I had no, I didn’t have any money so I couldn’t go buy a board there wasn’t places anywhere to rent boards at that time. I didn’t know anyone who surfed so it was something I wanted to do but had no idea h...

Reserve space on our next retreat to Nosara, Costa Rica.To listen to the interview, scroll to the Media Player at the bottom of this page. To live life by the minimum standard and to build all my projects by the minimum standard, one isn’t going be very fulfilling for me as a person but two I don’t think it’s going to create a very beautiful world and that’s something that I want, that I want to live in, that’s something I want to pass on to future generations. So, yeah, I think we need codes and I think we need standards. I think they’re valuable but to live your life by checking that box and checking that box alone isn’t going to be adequate for us as a species to survive on this planet and isn’t going to be adequate for us as an individual to find fulfillment, much less connection with each other and all the other beautiful things that can occur on the planet if we do things right.~Ethan Crouch if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-506620")); }if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-123115")); } Interview Transcript Introduction Maia: My name is Maia Dery. This episode impart of a series called the Waves to Wisdom Interviews. The project is a simple one. I seek out people I admire, surfers with what look to me to be ocean centered wisdom practices. I ask them if they’d be willing to share a surf session or two and then, after we’ve ridden some waves together, talk to me about their oceanic habits: about surfing, work, meaning, anything that comes up. Ethan: To live life by the minimum standard and to build all my projects by the minimum standard, one isn’t going be very fulfilling for me as a person but two I don’t think it’s going to create a very beautiful world and that’s something that I want, that I want to live in, that’s something I want to pass on to future generations. So, yeah, I think we need codes and I think we need standards. I think they’re valuable but to live your life by checking that box and checking that box alone isn’t going to be adequate for us as a species to survive on this planet and isn’t going to be adequate for us as an individual to find fulfillment, much less connection with each other and all the other beautiful things that can occur on the planet if we do things right. Maia: I first came across Ethan through his work with Surfrider Foundation— he’s one of the people working hard to make sure the beaches I an so many others enjoy are still healthy, accessible places. A business owner, consultant, passionately committed surfer and board shaper , and he’s been generous enough to speak to several groups of my students in the past. His ability to articulate the ways in which his undergraduate training in philosophy prepared him for his financially and emotionally abundant work in the construction industry inspired more than a few of those students to think more broadly about the possibilities for their own learning. In our conversations for this interview, Ethan cited the ideas of two 20th Century philosophers, Martin Buber and Emmanuel Levinas as powerful currents in his own life. Both of these philosophers wrote about ethics based on deep connection. I loved Ethan’s story of connection with the ocean and out shared community and his commitment to leave a more beautiful world in the wake of his life. *** Maia: OK, if you are comfortable with it could you tell me your name, age, and how long you been surfing? Ethan: Okay, my name is Ethan Crouch. I’m 36 years old and I’ve been surfing for, I, I guess pretty consistently for 17 years, 15 I don’t know [okay] 10-12 to 15 years? Maia: So, it sounds as if you came to surfing in college? Ethan: Yeah that’s when I really got committed to surfing is in college. And um upon graduation you know what I determined I wanted to live by the coast so that...

To listen to the interview, scroll to the Media Player at the bottom of this page. Reserve space on our next retreat to Nosara, Costa Rica. What would give you the courage to quit a good job, one you had worked hard to get, and always thought you wanted but discovered maybe wasn’t very good for you? And what happens when a German structural engineer reaches for surfing to help heal a broken heart and discovers an altogether healthier way of seeing and her living life? Before learning to surf "I was the same. I spent a lot of money for things I actually don't need to impress people I don't like." ~Lena Gabeler if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-867868")); } Interview Transcript My name is Maia Dery. This episode is part of a series called the Waves to Wisdom Interviews. The project is a simple one. I seek out people I admire, surfers with what look to me to be ocean-centered wisdom practices. I ask them if they’d be willing to share a surf session or two, and then, after we’ve ridden some waves together, talk to me about their oceanic habits, surfing, work, meaning, and anything else that comes up. What would give you the courage to quit a good job, one you had worked hard to get, and always thought you wanted but discovered maybe wasn’t very good for you? And what happens when a German structural engineer reaches for surfing to help heal a broken heart and discovers an altogether healthier way of seeing and her living life? Lena: Oh my god, I remember these wipe-outs, I thought I could never do it, and then after two hours, so hard work, then you catch a wave and you’re standing on your surfboard and you think like, “Oh my god, I can do it! It’s possible.” and you just have to believe in it and don’t give up and this is the same in life now when I have moments where I’m struggling, like the bad things happen, I’m so sad, I’m lost and I remember surfing, and I know, no, it’s gonna be good, there will be, don’t, don’t look to the broken wave, to the whitewater, look, look to the horizon, in the ocean and there will be more, so many more green beautiful clean waves coming for you and you just have to wait and be patient Lena and I found one another by accident, in the waves of Nosara, Costa Rica. We developed the sort of fast, thrilling friendship that comes from sharing passion for a beloved activity and intense experiences, both beautiful and challenging. The time we spent getting to know one another trading and often sharing waves in the gentle Pacific swells of that idyllic tropical surf break was inspiring and Lena’s story of crafting balance in her body and life taught me a great deal. I hope you learn something valuable as well. Maia: If you are comfortable with it you tell us your name and your age and how long you’ve been surfing. Lena: OK, my name is Lena, I’m now 33 years old I’m a Pisces, I think that’s why I love water and I am surfing since 6 years. Maia: 6 years, OK and you are from Germany? Lena: I am from Germany, yeah. Maia: And we are speaking, we’re having this beautiful conversation in a magical setting [oh my goodness, yeah], will you tell whoever’s listening a little bit about where we are? Lena: Yeah, so right now we’re sitting, actually, in the jungle, the sun is shining the temperature, sometimes I forget that it’s the middle of January, it’s so cold right now in Germany and we’re sitting, we’re almost don’t wear, like, anything it’s hot but it just feels wonderful on your skin and when I look up, like I see the sun shining through all this lush nature, it’s a simple place,

“… a pod of dolphins come swimming by and these 10 surfers who are all men except for my girlfriend I, are just stunned and still and looking out at these beautiful dolphins and it was just this moment of, “This is amazing!” and it was the moment where I realized, I had a flash of, every door that had possibly opened to allow me to be in that moment and it was a moment of feeling grateful,… that this little Mexican girl  can look back at her family line and remember that her mother was told that she was “a dirty Mexican”…  The life of struggle was over…”                                                                                    ~   Dionne Ybarra if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-188523")); } Further Information On the Wahine Project On the GI Bill of Rights On the Gaza Surf Club On CDC Racial Disparities in Rates of Drowning USA Swimming Diversity and Inclusion Resources if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-525921")); }

“From an educational perspective there’s so many different angles that you can look at through the lens of surfing… it’s such a fun and rewarding thing to do that puts you in touch with so many things. It can be used as a lens to understand all kinds of different things and it breathes life into that otherwise lifeless study of stuff.”                                                                                                                                                      Dr. Jess Ponting if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-149637")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-145838")); }

“Putting…  theory and knowledge from the development world together with surfing, it struck me that there would be ways to make this an industry where everybody could benefit from the spread of surfing around the world…”                                                                                                                                                                                  Dr. Jess Ponting if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-212763")); } if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-521588")); }

if ( typeof UNCODE !== "undefined" ) { UNCODE.initRow(document.getElementById("script-106949")); }“Surfing became my everything… my religion, my peace of mind, my ego checker,… my happiness meter, … it’s really everything for me. But that doesn’t mean that I’m like a surf rat and I’m only hanging at the beach all day, it’s just, the surfing frame of mind extends outside of the actual act of surfing.”                                                                                                                                                           Andrea Kabwasa   Transcript Interview Date: June 2016   My name is Maia Dery. This interview with longboard surfer Andrea Kabwasa is the first in a series called Waves to Wisdom. The project is a simple one. I seek out people I admire, surfers with what look to me to be ocean centered wisdom practices, ask them if they’d be willing to share a surf session or two, and then, after we ride some waves together, talk to me about their oceanic habits, surfing, work, love, meaning, and anything else that comes up. Andrea was generous enough to agree to two surf sessions in Malibu, the Eden of modern surfing if ever there was one. The sessions we shared were a little bit terrifying but magical. The interview was even better. Welcome to Waves to Wisdom. Andrea: My name’s Andrea Kabwasa and I’m 47 and I’ve been surfing, I dunno, about, I dunno, what is that about 15, 14, 15 years or something like that. Maia: And we are in Malibu right next to the beach and we surfed this morning a building swell, [mm hm] pretty exciting [laugh] and uh I don’t have a lot of experience with big crowds and it was unsurprisingly [yeah] well populated. Beautiful wave– you’ve been surfing Malibu for most of your time as a surfer or did it take you a few years to get there? Andrea: Yeah I been surfing there maybe about 12,12 or 13 years yeah quite a while. Maia: How long did it take you to get comfortable with the crowd? Andrea: Oh, I accepted it right off the bat. Maia: Right away okay [LAUGH]. So you were a full grown adult when you started surfing? Andrea: Yes I was. Maia: What, what led you take it up? Andrea: It was something I thought about when I was a child and I remember watching surfers. My aunt, my aunt used to take us to the beach and I would see the surfers. And I do remember saying I want to do that one day. So you know fast-forward through life, and all kinds of stuff and I had one of these epiphanies kinds of deals where I questioned what I wanted to do. Realized I could do anything I wanted, what did I want to do and I went to sleep and then when I woke up, surfing came to mind. Maia: As Andrea shared her story with me, of course, I couldn’t help look for overlap in our oceanic autobiographies. Like me she’d had a childhood desire, made her living in that moment as a teacher, and had a story whose plot was woven of the warp of loss and weft of waves. It was my 40th birthday had prompted me to finally get a board in the water. Now, ten years later, I was somewhere in the process of dealing with my own loss, my first really, truly, devastatingly broken heart. It was the end of an ill-advised love that had turned out, inevitably, to not be what I’d wished it was. An obvious failure to see clearly. But now I could do almost anything I wanted and what I wanted was, among other things, to surf with and listen well to Andrea. And to bring what I knew would be wise words to someone else who might need them more than I did. Andrea: I got up and went surfing. I told my mom I was going to go surfing cause I was living with my mom then and she basically said, “ Go! That’s great!” [Beautiful] So, that helped a lot [ok] cause if she would’ve said, “Ah, don’t do that don’t waste your time, I probably wouldn’t have done it. But um her initial instinctual positive reaction was like “Oh, ok yeah I’m gonna do that then.” Maia: Good MOM! And so did you take a lesson? Andrea: Yeah, I took a lesson and uh,