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‍What happens when patients don't pay their bill? In today's episode, I'm diving into a revealing conversation with Andy Grover Cleveland, the expert behind Collection Agency Ninja. Forget everything you've heard about the conventional timelines for involving collection agencies. Andy advocates for a proactive approach, suggesting engagement as early as 60 to 90 days post-EOB. This strategy not only streamlines financial operations but also nurtures patient relationships through clear communication.Andy reveals the secrets to choosing reputable collection agencies that enhance, rather than hinder, patient rapport. You'll learn why early intervention is a game-changer in maintaining your practice's financial health without compromising on patient satisfaction. From identifying common pitfalls in the collections process to crafting effective patient communication strategies, this episode equips practice owners with pivotal insights for balancing financial well-being and patient care.What You'll Learn in This Episode:Why early intervention with collection agencies can benefit your practice.The importance of notifying patients about balances promptly.How to choose the right collection agency for positive patient interactions.Best practices for encouraging patient payments gracefully.Common mistakes dental practices make in collections.Strategies to balance financial health with patient relationships.Listen now to master the art of patient payment collections in your practice!‍‍You can reach out to Andy Grover Cleveland here:Website: collectionagencyninja.com‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Episodes, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Andy, so talk to us, what's one piece of advice you can give us this Monday morning? Andy: I'm going to give something that probably goes against everything that everyone has ever heard in the dental business. I Believe you should use a collection agency at 60 to 90 days. After the EOB, which is probably very unpopular, but it's really crucial in the business of dentistry.Michael: Interesting. there specific communication strategies that we should implement at 30 or 45 days mark or to avoid escalating to the 60 days? Andy: Yeah, great question. Of course you want to notify. You don't want this to be blind. you do want to notify them that they owe the balance.And even before that, you want to try to collect it at time of service so that you never create the problem. However, you know, you have a real world and you have the perfect world. And sometimes those planets are just not aligned. So if someone does not pay that full balance, After that service is provided, you definitely want to notify that patient at least a couple of times that they owe, letting them know to please pay, but about 60 or 90 days, that's when the tide turns, Michael.That's when people decide, Hey, I'm either going to take care of this obligation or I'm not. So that's the ideal time to use it. Now, if you had interviewed me five years ago, Or 10 years ago, I wouldn't be as staunch on this opinion. It's kind of like merchant services. I don't know if you've seen this trend where now merchant services fees are being passed on to the patient.Have you been keeping up with that? Michael: Yeah, I've seen that. Andy: Okay. So if you asked me five years ago, I would say that's the worst idea. It's cheesy. Don't do it. It totally devalues your practice, but guess what? Every time I order tacos, every time I go to the doctor's office, every time I go to the car dealership, and now every time I go to the dentist, it's passed on. So we're in that kind of spot where it was unpopular, but now everybody's doing it. So why shouldn't the dentist? Michael: Okay. Interesting. So then three steps points or takeaways that you have to streamline this or make it easier, smoother. What would be number one then? Andy: one of the first takeaways is by implementing some type of collection agency strategy that's going to reach out.Number one, it doesn't make you the bad guy anymore. When you think about it, do you want to be known for chasing people for money or do you want to be known for treating patients with clinical excellence? So it's nice to have a scapegoat that you can blame for reaching out for the balance because it's strictly a financial driven practice.So I guess the number one is, it's much more convenient to blame your billing company. Then is for people to complain about someone in your office reaching out too frequently. I think we can both agree the optics aren't that great. Michael: Yeah. I think that's where I guess the patient relationship can get iffy, right?how do you do that then Andy? How do you balance maintaining patient relationships with the need to use a collection agency? Andy: there's no one right answer, but at the end of the day, if you hire someone to help you with the financial part of the practice, you can basically, just stay out of it.So if you're clinically driven, to help patients. That's your focus. Let someone else basically deal with the headache. Now, another part of how that works is it will motivate a certain part of your patient base to come back to be a patient of record. So a lot of times when dentists are doing these procedures, patients will say anything to get out of pain.So once you make that pain go away, it's sometimes could be a little too convenient to not pay. So by having a company reach out, you can actually help motivate that person to communicate with the practice and pay. And ultimately, You want that patient to be a valuable member of your clientele. So you have a divide where you can motivate people who generally value the service you're providing and keep them as a good patient of record. Also, if people choose not to pay the bill, they probably don't value the services that you rendered anyway. And arguably they're going to go somewhere else. So that kind of helps push them in another direction to maybe go down to the practice down the road and not pay them rather than come back for more service and not pay you.Michael: Does that make sense? yeah. So then I guess break it down for me. How does it motivate the patient versus sometimes like, stress them out or irritate him or anything like that? Andy: So it's pretty simple, Michael. If you, you got two phone calls today, once from someone, you owed money to.And it's just their office calling you, Hey, Michael, please pay. And then you get another phone call, Michael, from a collection agency. Again, same thing, you know, you owe the bill, but the collection agency is calling. Who are you going to pay first? Michael: one's a friend and the other one's the collection agency. Andy: They're both the same. you owe two parties. You have no preference one or the other, but one is that business calling you for money, the other one is a collection agency calling the question is, who are you more inclined to pay first? Michael: Oh, I don't know. That's a good question.What are the, data show?Andy: Generally speaking, people are going to pay the collection agency first. Middle class America wants to protect their credit. Michael: So Andy: generally speaking, people are going to pay the agency first. They're going to give it more importance because there's nothing negative that happens if they choose not to pay that original vendor, they'll get another statement or call next month and they'll address it Michael: Interesting. Okay. I like that. So then can you walk us through the process of selecting a reputable collection agency? Like What key factors Should we consider? Andy: Yeah. I mean, You really want to, interview multiple agencies. I would say the number one most important thing that you can do, assuming that people are being ethical, providing good service and being cost effective, which most are is having an agency that works directly with. Your practice management software. So we're in, a digital age and the collections business as a whole has done a very poor job on getting involved with technology. So I would definitely steer any dentist to work with the company that works with the technology. Well, You might ask, why is that important?There's numerous reasons. That's important. Number one. You're going to ensure safe and secure and rapid exchange of information. So accounts will be sent by their team by pointing and clicking, not manually updating a web form. The second thing it's going to do is it's going to tell who's paid. So in the collections business, Michael, and it's obvious you haven't been in collections from some of your responses, which is great.We don't want that for anybody. But sometimes the patient will actually pay as a result of that collection company contacting them. So with companies that work within the software, they should be notified when that happens. So let's paint a picture. Let's just say you're working with a collection company manually. Okay. You've sent patient ABC over for collection and the collection company has been calling them and they will call them incessantly to motivate that person. And let's just say that person paid the bill. Well Guess what? If your front office doesn't contact that agency by logging into the website, calling them, emailing, however that feedback loop is. That agency is going to continue to call that person for money. And it's going to further damage that relationship when they did the right thing and paid. So you want to have like an automatic feedback loop so that if someone does pay, it's automatically reported to the agency. So the agency doesn't cause any further harm. Those are probably the two top biggest reasons. There's many more. Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So collection agency is just essential to have in this process, So number two, what would that look like? Bullet point number two. Andy: Yeah, so that was identify and motivate your ideal patients coming back into the practice as opposed to people that are just dentist shopping So we want to motivate people to pay and also be a patient of record. So when you turn people over to collection Granted, they're not happy about it, but it will motivate people that value that relationship with you to communicate and pay the bill. It will also motivate some people to leave the practice because they had no intention of paying to begin with. Michael: Okay. Got you. Got you. Now, how do you measure any of the success of a collection agency? What benchmarks or KPIs do you track? As a practice owner. Andy: So any agency that has technology to support you is going to give you metrics on how you can judge their efficacy. I will share with you as weird as this is, it's not all about the money. I specialize in working with independently owned dental offices. So it's a little more holistic and how they judge you. I would say that most independently owned practices, it's not about the money. That's more of a group practice thought process.Yes, money's important, but not the most important thing. Independent dentists, they don't compete. With corporate offices on cost, right? They can't, the economies of scale are not there. The flip side is also true. corporates can't compete with independent dentists on culture, right? They have turnover, you're getting new associates every six months. It's just a constant churn. So they don't really compete with one another, but at the end of the day, I think most dentists, will gauge the efficacy of their collection company, not only on the money recovered. And of course it has to be cost effective, but even more importantly than that, does it generate negative reviews?Does it motivate people to accept treatment? Does it allow their staff to focus on other things that are more important? So there's an opportunity cost To chasing your own accounts receivable. So it's much more multifaceted than just dollars in dollars out. Most dentists will hire a collection company basically to make their office run better.Michael: Have you seen that a lot, Andy, where some are hesitant to, bring on or call or ask about, money more for the review. Like, Oh man, I'm going to get negative. Andy: Yeah, of course. But in my experience, if you continue to chase your own money, you're much more likely to generate a negative review for yourself.If you hire somebody else to do it for you, they can give a negative review on that collection agency. Michael: Yeah. Andy: And certainly they could tie it back to you, but you can always, claim indifference, right? Hey that's what our billing department's for you know, you need to deal with them and it absolves you from some of that responsibility. Michael: Interesting. Okay. So then what are the financial risks and rewards of sending accounts to collections at 60 days versus waiting longer or not using collections at all? Andy: Great question. So you have this kind of traditional paradigm with collection agencies working with dental offices and that one is a very traditional approach where the office will work the account for months and months and months and years and years and years. And then they turn it over to collections, and then that company's working on a percentage basis. That's the way it's always been, but that is just not an effective way of running a modern or contemporary dental office. Sometimes you cause more harm than good there because if you wait that long, the accounts aren't collectible anyway. Right. If you wait a year or two, they're basically uncollectible. So I'd recommend just writing the accounts off if you're going to do that. The advantage to turning it over at 60 to 90 days is that's a very fresh account. It's still top of mind for that consumer and from a statistical perspective, it's much more collectible than something if you wait a year or two down the road to go after.So it's more about being proactive with that balance. The other thing you also have to measure in here, Michael. is a lot of times these practices are already getting hit with the PPO fee and basically reducing their billable amount. So they're already losing 30 or 40%. And then if you let that patient balance go unpaid. You're losing the rest. So in this environment, it's just too competitive to run a business like that anymore. You have to be responsible with not only the insurance portion, whether you're in network, out of network fee for service, but you also have to address that patient portion. It's crucial because again, you're taking such a big write off a hit in the beginning. It's really not cost effective for you to take another hit later down the road. You're essentially giving it away. Michael: Interesting. So then what common mistakes do practices make that you've seen when sending accounts to collections and how can they avoid these pitfalls? Andy: one of the things that clouds all of our judgment is emotion.So a lot of times, People get upset, and listen, if someone owes me money, I get upset about my own business, right? It hurts, but people still have that mammalian part of their brain that wants revenge, or maybe the patient was really rude last time they came in. So you have this, Emotional part of being owed money that clouds our judgment.that's a big mistake I see some practices, they just want revenge. That's usually where bad things start to happen when you think along those lines. So as a practice owner matures and goes through practice ownership, there's developmental stages where right in the beginning, it really hurts. Then you can start to kind of objectively step back and look at things more objectively. But at the end of the day, recommend the practice owners look at this from a very non emotional, like a CPA would, right? If you're producing a million dollars in revenue annually, and you have less than 1 percent of the people that owe you money, not pay you, write it off.You're collecting 99%. No one gets a hundred percent. I don't care how cool it is to say in the Facebook groups, nobody gets a hundred percent. There are times where it makes sense to write things off rather than pursue it. Especially if those services are disputed or you're dealing with a really difficult person, a lot of times it's just not worth it and you just have to let it go.Michael: Interesting. I love that. Thank you so much, Andy. I appreciate your time. And if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find them on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you directly?Andy: Probably the best way to do it is going to my website. collection, agency, ninja. com spelled just like it sounds. Michael: Awesome. Collection, agency, ninja. com. that's going to be in the show notes below. So if anyone's interested, want to pick Andy's brain a little bit more and so forth, definitely reach out to him there and Andy.Thank you so much for being with us on this Monday morning episode. Appreciate you having me. Thank you very much and keep up the great work. I'm honored to be here.Andy: Thank you.

“The difference that you bring to the table is you.” – Undrea King   The Wholesale Nation Podcast is targeted on giving away all the details needed to be a successful wholesaler, along with direct insights from wholesalers from across the nation. Our hosts, Undrea King, and Andy Speed are the owners of Drayco Properties, a real estate investment company located in Houston, Texas. Undrea has over two decades experience as a business operator and several years as a real estate investor. Andy has been in the real estate game since February 2015 and has a decade’s worth of experience in supply chain management. In the podcast series, the two motivated men have thrown light on the importance of having faith in ourselves to be able to take risks and believe in what we’re doing.   Welcome to another worthy episode of the Wholesale Nation podcast! Today’s show gives you a lot of key tips to take away to become experts in the business if you are an unsure yet passionate business person. Undrea and Andy discuss on a challenging area of bringing about positive mindset shifts in wholesalers by guiding you through the stages and helping you get a better understanding of yourself. Citing instances from their personal journeys, and genuinely putting forward their doubts and challenges in the process, they get you to take away capsules of knowledge from this conversation. It is totally natural for budding wholesalers to compare themselves with the established ones in the business, and self-doubt and dying motivation could then follow. A lot of your counterparts could be ruling the market and you would be standing there counting on your failures. This could perhaps lead you into doing stuff you don’t want to, like running around making that perfect ‘business card’! You need to let nobody take away your joy and purpose. You need to consider competition positively and constructively. Undrea has in the episode shared with us the times when he couldn’t get into the position to do what he was supposed to be doing and how it was difficult for him to not look at the others who’d been in the business for years. That perhaps, happened because he failed to think about and acknowledge the stress and sweat. He says, most people tend to overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what they can in 5 years and hence, makes understand how keeping long term goals has helped him stay realistic about his goals. There are 3 main qualities a wholesaler requires to build: The ability to sell The ability to market The ability to take up the ‘ad-man’ job Andy has discussed on the need to build on your basics and improve yourself bit by bit every single day. Growth and competition should actually be with your own self and it has always been so, and the core value, of the podcast series and of your own self is to get better every day, whether it’s a 25 percentage improvement of your skills and expertise or a 10 percent advancement, valuation and understanding of your knowledge is key to progress. You need to know yourself and what you’re good at and then develop on your skills, self-evaluation is important. Andy explains that you can always start with whatever you have and wherever you stand in the business, and that not delaying the start should be the most important thing to you. He finds having somebody to guide you through the business to play a positive role in setting your business right. You need to be making certain number of offers every day and also market your sales to start with. You should be able to do better tomorrow than you can today. Value points to start with: Start where you are Analyze where you are Figure out the plan to get there Have you been wanting to know how crucial it is to understand and grow yourself first to succeed in your business or how to be competing with yourself? The duo have proven answers! Tune in to the episode and learn to get to know yourself better! If you enjoyed listening to this, and want to learn even more about growing your real estate wholesaling business, subscribe to the show, comment, and share with us your ideas, and leave a review if you wish to help this reach a larger audience!     Quotes:   “You don’t become an expert overnight.” – Undrea “The basics is, don’t talk to some people.” – Andy “You see the glory but you don’t see the story.” – Undrea “In all things, you’re really in competition with yourself.” – Andy “The difference that you bring to the table is you.” – Undrea  “We fail every day, we fail all the time.” – Andy “They’re not above you, they’re just ahead of you.” – Andy     Connect with Andy and Undrea:   Facebook Group: Wholesale Nation Instagram :  @undreaking , @andyspeed_ Website : https://wholesalenation.libsyn.com/

Rit brings you the recap of the final RHONY episode of the season. And if the worst chain of hugs in history wasn't enough to cheer you up, he may have a fun giveaway around the bend for his loyal listeners. ACT 1 Ramona is still laying in Luann and thinks she’s still drinking. It’s incredible how accountable ramona tries to hold everyone, and she would NEVER take the same guidance or advice from anyone! Can you imagine if she was in Luanns’ position? Ramona tells Luann you failed yourself. Nothing like telling that to an alcoholic!  Luann says that her probation is over in 3 months. Ramona snidely asks, if she can drink after that? Luann says she’ll take it one day at a time. Bethenny says maybe that’ll be when her divorce is finalized and they can celebrate together. Ramona off camera… that could be fun.  BITCH YOU WONT BE INVITED!!  Andy wishes Luann good luck. Then it goes gray. I’m thinking omg did she violate her probation again?!  Title card: Six days after taping this reunion, Luann appeared in court to defend charges that she violated her probation. She was given further restrictions for the remainder of her probation.  ...who cares about this?  FLASHBACK to show them at Dorinda’s. Sonja getting posessed by the Morgan ghost. Then they go to that weird micmiry lady. Then they go to miami and Sonja gets wasted and does the dorinda screaming, and then falls on her face. The picture of her in the bottom right, her face is like, eh you win some you lose some.  Andy asks them how the naked chef’s food was, asks if there were any pubes or hair. Bethenny: You know what, thank you for that… it’s funny to see her grossed out Dorinda’s sister Malinda…  Discussing taking Sonja to the house… Dorinda has such a deep complicated reason for why she took them to that mansion, going back a couple of generations.  Andy: Sonja, there were to occassions where people were concerned about your drinking. Sonja: Which two? Andy says when she held the dog up in the berkshries and when she cried about the latters. Sonja: But i always do those things! Sonja is the kim richards of this group… even when she’s sober, she’s so kooky that you don’t actually know if she’s sober.  It’s interesting that Bethenny went into the closet and went through Sonja’s purse. I think that was the right thing to do. But Bethenny also strikes me as a strangers on the train type. (Explain the plot.)  Andy shfits to Ramona about her dad’s will. Ramona instantly starts crying. This is the Ramona we love. Yes, shes’ damaged and she says crazy things, but when she owns it like this it makes her so likeable. Dorinda gives her take on it, and during it Luann interrupts Andy and asks what time it is . Andy: They’re having a serious conversation. It’s 7:45. Luann: FUCK I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO MY THING.  Commercials: Million dollar listing is back…. I enjoy the show sometimes but it’s also SO fake. Million DOllar Listing LA uses some CRAZY filters that makes everything so white and hazy. And their interviews are evvvvery so slightly handheld.  ACT 2 Barb is out! Sonja has moved to the other couch. She looks nice.  Barbara package/fish room drama Ok it was INSANE to me that Ramona and Dorinda were talking shit about Barbara INCHES from her by the pool. How do they not hear?! Ramona is a garbage person for not liking Barbara because she’s masculine.  If I was barbara i would sob my eyes out from that level of rejection.  Then they play Barbara talking shit about Luann not being able to sing. Sonja: OMG is that barbara?! Luann says that barbara is at it again, and she said that crap about me and tom and now she’s saying I can’t sing. ...both things are true though.  Luann knows she’s not a singer, per se. She knew it when she recorded her music back in the day. At some point, hosting these shows, she’s gotten to believe that she actually CAN sing.  THEN luann says ‘for someone who can’t sing, I just got cast in Chicago, so take that and shove it up your ass.” No one says anything. Honestly…. I feel a little bad for her here. I feel like she’s alone, her kids have moved out, this is literally all she has. Let her enjoy it!  Barbara explains the scale of how she has helped Luann. Luann says and then you do this??? Luann has this confusion about when people do things for her, that then they should KEEP doing good things for her. She said this about Bethenny, that Bethenny did all that stuff for her, so she especially doesn’t want to hear anything negative from Bethenny. If anything, that gives bethenny the right to say whatever you want because she saved your life pretty much!  Luann: to go to my show and to actually say that…. It then occurs to me that Luann is not in on the joke.  Andy: What do you ladies think about her singing? EVeryone talks over each other: No i already said jokes and diary and the performance and it’s good Luann defends that she will be starring in chicago. Dorinda: we get it, put that in a box. Ummm but you didnt respond the first time. They can’t jump on her for every little thing she says more than once. Luann is the jax of this show, where he will always be the person they call out for cheating. Luann will always be the person that repeats herself and they will never let her live it down.  Then suddenly, abruptly, Bethenny goes do you think Barbara has too much tanner on?! As a way to even it with Luann. Then everyone goes IN about how tan she is! So mean!  Andy reads a question from a woman who says the show is about the performance and she’s not liza minelli. Luann: there are always going to be haters. Bethenny: you’re no a great singer just admit it. Luann: to actually say that is not a nice thing to hear. I can sort of see where luann is coming from. We all WANT to be singers, and sometimes you’ll sing and a friend will say aw you have a nice voice! I think enough people said that to luann that she took it and ran with it, built a cabaret around it, and is not a little shocked that people really dont think she has a good voice. It’s like she was operating under the wrong impression this whole time.  ACT THREE Everyone votes to give barbara a hall pass. Sonja: I thought we were voting for most fuckable.  Andy asks Ramona about why she doesnt like barbara. Ramona talks about helping Barbara pick out outfits. Andy asks Ramona about the night she didnt want Tisnley to join her? Ramona: …...well i apologized the next day.  Andy what do you think of Ramona and Dorinda heckling her outfit? Barbara: I’m the new girl. Dorinda claims barbara was acting like a bitch. Dorinda says that barbara is the big fat turnip that doesnt fit in the fruit basket. Ramona: I like that!!  Andy asks Barbara if she’s comfortable that she shared her sexuality. Barbara did at first but now she’s happy she talked about it and she believes in love. They need a full blown lesbian. It would change up the dynamic.  Andy asks Barbara about how everyone rejected her in miami. Bethenny says that barbara never really revealed herself to everyone. Barbaraed her in miami. Bethenny says they just wanted her to reveal more. Barbara said thats why i make a better friend which is sweet. Bethenny gets up to hug her but makes it awkward but refusing to touch her. Then luann stumbles over and complains that her leg is asleep. Then Ramona. Then Sonja. This is amazing. Andy is so annoyed. If it was 7:30 before when luann had to take her breathalyzer what time must it be now.  Unless i missed it did dorinda not hug barbara?? Thats amazing. Its so hard for dorinda to forgive. Act FOUR The flipping exes promo is so annoying. She keeps saying check. They literally that show with tarek and christina and copied it. I cant stand her voice. Luann is a monster package. Ramona smiles during bethenny’s meltdown. Luann doesnt get why theyre so after her for the cabaret show.  They get all over luann for not knowing where sonjas daughter is going. Bethenny: thats insaaaaane. Um i feel like ramona wouldnt know… Luann admits she looked like an asshole. Luann says she didnt have enough to give.  Act FIVE The women get on luann for enjoying the fame too much. Bethenny thinks that that luann shoulve been more humble after rehab.  Bethennys meltdown… dorinda: dare i say it was a champagne cork that needed to pop. Both bethenny and luann show what could happen when you come back to filming too early. Luann and  bethenny hug Bethenny says shes rooting for luann.  Dorinda get emotional saying she wants to help luann get to the finish line.  Act 6 The women are so upset that their drinks are virgin. Dorinda: this would be delicious with vodka. When they go around and say what they regret… it sounds like dorinda says regwet.  Tins what about you? ...did tinsley speak once during this episode? Luann makes the final toast with the AA prayer and ramona goes that was a really nice toast. Clearly she has no idea it was from AA. __ TWITTER: http://www.twitter.com/wivestonight EMAIL: wivestonight@gmail.com 

Adopting a child can be a long process, full of waiting and hoping and so much paperwork.  Friends, family, and coworkers can be unaware of the stress and high emotion involved.  Beth and Andy Long share the story of bringing Drew from the forest of the Democratic Republic of Congo to Bloomington, Indiana and the hardest six months of their lives.  In that story, they reflect on how people supported them well, the dangers of work/home compartmentalization, and the bravery it takes to create change in a workplace culture.    Opening Quote: [00:17:54.430] - Beth Long  It was extremely chaotic. You've got this little boy, Drew, who's two and a half at this point, who we've we've been preparing for, you know, we've got a room for him. We've been talking about him but really to him we're strangers.   Intro   Today, we talk about adoption.  But the conversation is much broader than adoption, it ranges from the forests of the Congo to the NICU to a car dealership in southern Indiana. Along the way, we will talk about how the stress of work impacts home, learning to say yes to offers of help, and the bravery that it takes to create change in a workplace culture.   My guests are Beth and Andy Long, two people that I have had the pleasure of calling friends for more than half of my life.    [00:00:00.610] - Andy Long So should we introduce ourselves? What's our format? I'm Andy Long   [00:00:01.910] - Beth Long I'm Beth Long.   [00:00:08.790] - Liesel Mertes Tell us a little bit about yourselves. Andy, what do you do?   [00:00:12.890] - Andy Long So I grew up in Indianapolis and then, after college moved down to Bloomington to join my family's business which is automotive retail we own several dealerships in Bloomington Ind.. So that's what brought us down here   [00:00:26.560] - Liesel Mertes Beth, a little bit about you.   [00:00:28.900] - Beth Long Well I stay home with our four kids. They're 9 7 5 and 3 at this point and, at this point, I've been in Bloomington eleven years.   Beth and Andy met in the halls of Heritage Christian High School, where Beth was my teammate on the soccer team and Andy was my co-lawyer on the mock trial team.    [00:00:51.880] - Andy Long I tried to date her in high school, but she was having none of that. I didn't drive a hard top Jeep Wrangler that wasn't several years older than her. So I did make the cut.   [00:01:05.380] - Beth Long Yeah. No, what he means by trying to date me was he was trying to date everybody else.   Musical interlude Beth always knew that she wanted to adopt.    [00:01:42.010] - Beth Long we had always talked about adoption. It was something I knew before we even got married that I had kind of put on Andy's radar.   Beth and Andy had two biological children, daughters that had come after complicated pregnancies.  They were advised to take some time before conceiving again, and this was when they embarked on the adoption journey.   [00:02:26] - Beth Long And so, that's when we drove in to the world of international adoption which is what was really on our radar at the time. And we're not really like super organized chart people but we made this big chart of all the countries in the world that you can adopt from and just sort of the different regulations there were because they're all different in terms of family size and length of stay in country and age of child you can adopt. And so we just made our chart and from there sort of narrowed down to the Democratic Republic of Congo which is where our son Drew is from.   One of the reasons that Andy and Beth chose the DRC was because it only required a ten day stay in country   [00:03:44] - Andy Long I get two weeks off a year and so that ruled out countries that require like 30 days in country or multiple visits that would be a couple of weeks apiece. So we had ruled those out. So Congo fit with our with my work schedule being off two weeks. So a 10 day stay in country was what they what the program called for. So that fit. And then they had estimated a timeframe from the inception of the program to bringing your child home and about nine months.   About nine months, at least that was the hope.  But things did not go as planned Music here   [00:04:46.030] - Beth Long Well we were matched with Drew, our son, when he was nine days old and that was in August of 2013. And in September of 2013, the country essentially shut down adoptions. There were the adoptions were still proceeding but they were not allowing adopted children to leave once their process was complete. They said you cannot have an exit letter. And they had done some suspensions like this before and they didn't last very long. They said initially it would last up to a year and everybody thought, oh it'll be a month maybe two months...Given the history, it ended up lasting about two and a half years.   [00:05:24.580] - Liesel Mertes Wow. So two and a half years. What, what did that look like relationally for you guys to navigate that journey? I assume that it wasn't just calm and, OK, this is another delay, this is the next thing. How is it feeling to you in real time?   [00:06:12] - Andy Long We were relatively new to the program and some of the people that had been either, they had adopted previously from the DRC or they had friends or family that had, they had seen some of these suspensions kind of come and go. And so they gave us the expectation of, oh it'll be a few months or maybe a year. So then as it exceeded those timeframes. I think everybody that was in the program we're really confused and nervous about, well maybe this is going to be a permanent suspension of the adoption program or maybe our son will never come home and we certainly had those thoughts as well. There was no timeframe given. So you know after a year or two we thought, you know maybe, maybe that Drew will never come home. Maybe this is just not going to happen.   Musical transition here   [00:06:57.280]  We didn't really know what to do. There wasn't anything we could do on our end in order to speed the process up or to do that. So there was a lot of confusion. I think Beth and I were on the same page which brought us closer together, probably because it kind of felt like us versus them or us versus the world.   [00:07:16.720] - Liesel Mertes Was there a lot of paperwork and bureaucracy?   [00:07:18.220] - Beth Long Oh, absolutely. Oh yeah so much.   [00:07:22.390] - Liesel Mertes And how much time did that take up for you and a given week or month because I picture there's a cost of just your bandwidth of having to do all of this.   [00:07:32.740] - Beth Long Yes so I mean every day, and I was sort of reporting back to Andy, but every day I'm online looking at the rumors talking about the chatter of what's going to happen. I heard this, you know the senator said this, I heard this from DRC. You know, everybody was just kind of putting the information together because like Andy said we really had no idea, we're going on rumors and tweets   [00:07:57.850] - Andy Long There are different Facebook groups and different message boards that we were a part of that we're trying to get information out. There was a big push to contact your representatives in Congress and let them know, hey this is what's happening over there. We need governmental support to put pressure on the Congolese government to get these kids home.   [00:08:18.460] - Liesel Mertes Did you have much... So you're here in southern Indiana. Did you have much in the way of real time community of people who understood what you're going through? Because I imagine that this potentially could feel like very isolating and particular sort of experience as you're dropping your kids off at the local school and going grocery shopping at Kroger and checking about the geopolitical functions of the government in Congo.   [00:08:46.960] - Beth Long Yes. So we had a lot of online support as any sort of Facebook groups but I think we had wonderful people in person but you know how it's difficult to follow another person's health journey or you know their court dates. It's hard to keep all that straight. I'm using a whole different language when I'm talking about this adoption world. And so there were definitely times when people were kind of like, oh you're you're still doing that you're still trying to bring that kid home? Yes this is my daily reality. I'm daily still working on this every day is our son and every day we're thinking about it talking about it trying to figure out how I can make this happen.   [00:09:22.870] - Andy Long I think that even for close friends and family,  after after it went past two years of this indefinite, you know like we're going to try to bring Drew home one day, I think even our friends and family were a little skeptical, maybe nervous for us that it wasn't going to happen and they didn't really know how to feel about that. They didn't, they were nervous that we were going to be really hurt and obviously just crushed if this adoption failed and we weren't able to bring Drew home. I think that they processed that and that manifested itself in the way that they dealt with us and the way that they dealt with our adoption. Maybe it's kind of like a hands off or arm's length that you didn't want to become too invested because they were nervous for us and maybe nervous for their own emotions and that felt isolating or that felt like they weren't invested like we were invested or they weren't sure they were skeptical.   Musical interlude    10:40, Andy They were really nervous. And so I felt like they maybe moved to, maybe be wary of the way that they approached it. They kind of didn't want to talk about it or ignored it. In some ways, because it felt like they were really nervous for us and we interpreted that as, they didn't care as much or they were skeptical, which I think they had every right to be because it was an indefinite suspension. They didn't know what was going on, neither did we. But, it felt hurtful in the moment.   Musical interlude   [00:11:23.370] - Andy Long They had a friend that had tried to adopt from the Soviet Union or a country. I think in the early 90s or the mid 90s and they were close friends with my parents and they had pictures of this little girl and they had spent a lot of money and they had invested over I think over a couple of years and trying to bring her home. And then, at the end of the process, the adoption was scuttled. They didn't have any answers. There was you know, accusations of fraud and maybe that there was never a girl that they were going to adopt. And the family that they were friends with were devastated. And I think that that informed their opinion and they saw maybe that coming back around and they were nervous for us that we were being defrauded or that there was a scheme to bilk us for money and that Drew was never going to come home, which were legitimate concerns because there was no timeframe and very little information. But, that felt really hurtful, because it felt like they were skeptical of the process and they weren't rooting for us to bring Drew home but were maybe rooting for us to have our guard up.   [00:12:32.720] - Liesel Mertes Do you feel like, by extension, there was any sort of implication of:  you're being foolish in this, you're being taken or had ,that felt offensive in its own way?   [00:12:46.330] - Beth Long Yeah.   [00:12:46.730] - Andy Long We are both shaking hands before we answered yes. I don't think it was intentional in their mind to make us feel that way.   Musical Interlude   [00:13:24.750] - Beth Long And I think, just in general just in, sort of in the way that when you're pregnant, like that baby isn't as real to everybody else as it is to you. That's sort of how I felt with Drew. You know, I knew this child. He was ours. I had the pictures. I was invested and it wasn't real to anybody else. They couldn't see him. You know they weren't, they weren't experiencing him and so, I think that was the hard part for me just in real life. Friends seeing, you know I think sometimes they felt so worried for me and concerned that I was really invested in this thing that really wasn't going to happen, maybe.   Andy also felt missed in his workplace [00:14:49] - Andy Long Well, I think the people knew; I had been very open that we were adopting. I've got pictures of Drew. This is my son. So I think they're aware of that, but I don't know if they were super supportive. Well, our workplace is very much like you try to leave your problems at the door, you come in when you're in the office you're focused on work. It's not really a community where we would share problems from home or family life, But there was a moment, towards the very end of the process when Drew was coming home and was literally flying home that there was a major hang up and a copy of the visa wasn't the right one and there was a big problem where they were stopped on literally on the way to the airport. He was stopped and detained with his escort. And I remember getting that phone call at work and I literally just took the phone callm found out that that was happening and just left the office and went home. I don't think that I told anyone that I was going they probably thought that there had been a big emergency, which there had been, but that was the one time maybe where I have a really vivid memory of just having to leave work and it was that environment wasn't gonna be suitable for handling or dealing or processing what was happening with our adoption.     Although there was a disconnect with family, friends, and work, there was still a community of people that supported Beth and Andy.      [00:16:13] - Liesel Mertes Where were the places that you were finding people that came alongside you and supported you well and what did that look like?   [00:16:20.850] - Beth Long I would say mostly our family and our church here in Bloomington   [00:16:25.110] - Andy Long Our small group a church was extremely supportive throughout the entire process.   [00:16:29.190] - Liesel Mertes What were some of the best, tangible things that they along this two year journey with you?   [00:16:36.650] - Beth Long Well, I would say, to back it up just a little bit. So Drew did come home as we said in February of 2016 but in December of 2015 we had a baby. So that's a whole other part of this because it led to sort of a six month period for us that was probably the most difficult of our lives. So we had Luke the baby as he will forever be known   [00:17:01.610] - Liesel Mertes As babies are.   [00:17:04.370] - Beth Long So he was born a month early in here in Bloomington and he spent ten days in the NICU and, unfortunately, I had the same crazy delivery but but worse with him. So he had to spend some extra time sort of getting used to life on the outside and and then Drew came home February. And then Luke, in April, began having seizures. And so, we took an emergency trip up to Riley and a second trip up to Riley the following week.   [00:17:36.680] - Liesel Mertes And Riley is in Indianapolis, which is about an hour and a half drive.   [00:17:42.470] - Beth Long So that was December to May was really taken up with, I mean it just felt like to us, absolutely more than we could handle.   [00:17:52.390] - Liesel Mertes It sounds so chaotic.   [00:17:54.430] - Beth Long  It was extremely chaotic. You've got this little boy, Drew, who's two and a half at this point, who we've we've been preparing for, you know, we've got a room for him. We've been talking about him but really to him we're strangers. We'd been to visit him for a week. But, the language, the food, the clothes that everything every place that he went, every person he saw was new to him. And so you can imagine, that that was an extremely difficult transition for him. And then we had this baby who had these health problems that of course we were not anticipating. So this was a really difficult time for us. And we just we feel so thankful to the people that are in our life that were really there for us. I mean we had friends that were stopping by too because Andy was still working very long hours at this time too.   [00:18:45.550]  And I had a friend that came over many nights during bedtime just to help me with bedtime because I've got now four kids to put to bed. I have friends that would say hey, I'm running to the grocery store. What can I get you today? We had so many people bring its meals. People take our older girls, you know for a playdate, so I could just handle the boys.   [00:19:06.100] - Andy Long My parents came down, your parents came down to watch the kids and help you around the house.   [00:19:11.360] - Liesel Mertes Because Andy, you're still operating on, I have 14 days to use over this year. Did you, did that feel like a pressing concern all through this of I can't be present because I have...   [00:19:25.470] - Andy Long Yeah, that was, that was it I'm not proud of the way that I handled that but, I was so ingrained in the culture of my particular workplace which was you don't miss work, that is unacceptable. As a leader, as a manager, you're gonna be at work no matter what. And I had had over 10 years of being in that environment and it seemed so natural and I had blinders on to how unreasonable that would be. But I I had taken time off for Luke's birth and I had been to the hospital and I would go my lunch break to the NICU but I didn't feel like I had enough time or I had already taken off too much time. So, I had my mom pick up Beth from the NICU when they were released to bring them home. So, I didn't even go and pick up my own child when he was released from the NICU to bring him home for the first time because I felt like I didn't have enough time in my day right or I taking off too much time for this for the birth and that that kind of came around when Drew came home I took off one day but then after that worked my normal schedule, which was really close to 8 to 8. So, I was gone all day throughout the week and then Saturdays.   [00:20:43.170] - Liesel Mertes That sounds exhausting for both of you on a number of levels when you talk about that culture, Andy, so you're going to the NICU on your lunch break and then coming back and needing convince someone that this is the car for them to buy. Was it difficult for you to re-engage with work? What did you find your capacity for coping or compartmentalization needed to become in the workplace?   [00:21:11.430] - Andy Long You know, looking back, I'm not sure how I did that or if I did a very good job. I probably suffered at work and wasn't aware of how distracted that I was. It felt like, maybe I probably was trying to do my best but I would imagine if I look back now was probably very distracted and was underperforming. I think the part that suffered the most was home life because it's more difficult to turn off work and being on stage and you know trying to be pleasant, providing great customer service acting like everything is fine, leaving your problems at the door. I think I became very good at turning that off and when I was at work focusing on work, so that it became more difficult to engage when I came home to pick that back up and then engage with the problems and the difficulties that we had which became a major stress point for Beth and I. Probably the hardest thing that we've been through was my inability to say no to work or to change what I was doing there, which lasted for months and months probably six months. Throughout that time when we had both boys home and Luke was diagnosed as epileptic and we just had tons of reasons to not be at work as much.   [00:22:26.960]  But I wasn't able to see it that way. And didn't turn that off and was really embarrassed and ashamed of how I dealt with that. Looking back. But in the moment, it felt like that was just the reasonable way that you would handle life's problems would be to check them at the door go to work act like it was normal leave work come home and try to re-engage.   [00:22:50.970] - Liesel Mertes Beth what does it feel like even as you listen to that and reflect on that season?   [00:22:57.470] - Beth Long Like Andy said, he was so entrenched in, this is just the way we do it. It's not like anyone at work was saying, you better get back here, you know. That was just the expectation. Sort of an unstated expectation but he had been in it for so long that he didn't see what it was doing to our family life as well. And, honestly, during that time I mean I was barely hanging on. I felt like I was barely treading water and I really needed him and he wasn't there. And so thinking back on that time I just it brings back a lot of emotions for me and I'm just trying to navigate all of that and also to help him see, hey this is not the right path for us.   [00:23:42.200] Something needs to change about your work life and that's a hard conversation to have. For me it's a family business. It's work that he loves. He loves working for his grandfather. So those are really difficult conversations to have. He wants to be the one who's working the hardest. He wants to be there and I really respect that about him, he's a hard worker. But there are also times in life when that cannot be the focus.   [00:24:08.720] - Andy Long We didn't have real clear policies at work about, hey if you have a baby or if your family has a baby, this is what's normal to take off or these many days or this doesn't count against your vacation time or if you've got a medical emergency you know take this amount of time away from the office. We didn't have any of those policies really, really clearly stated at all and so then it was kind of, we were jumbling through it together where there was a lot of weird expectations on my side and I'm sure my co-workers at work needed me there and so they didn't really know how to process that or, you know, they, I'm sure would have liked to have me there more but they also understood it was inappropriate to ask me to come home or to skip some of that family time, so that I made it more difficult that we didn't have any clear policies on how much time I should take or what the procedure was for something like that like a medical emergency or traumatic birth.   [00:25:11.440] - Liesel Mertes Do you think back oh let's update the audience though. How is the Luke doing?   [00:25:16.800] - Beth Long He's doing very well. So, it took a while to find the right medication for him that would control his seizures. And then once they were controlled, he was on the medication for about two years without any repeat seizures. And so we did another EEG last summer and he was able to wean off the medicine. So he's been doing very well.   [00:25:39.850] - Liesel Mertes And Drew's here, he is going to be starting kindergarten not next year but the year...   [00:25:44.420] - Beth Long No, this year. So crazy. So yeah he's ready. He's very excited.   [00:25:51.310] - Liesel Mertes And Andy and Beth, you guys made some purposeful shifts in some of your work life structuring in the aftermath of this. What decisions did you make for your life balance moving forward based on some of what you experienced?   [00:26:07.350] - Beth Long Well I think after the NICU situation and having his mom bring me home and then only taking a day off when Drew came home those two situations and the chaos that was our life at that time, for me was the final straw. Really Weave some music through the drama of the following section…   [00:26:27.160] - Andy Long The breaking point   [00:26:28.130] - Beth Long Yeah, breaking point, I just said I can't I can't keep up with this anymore. And so when, when we were Riley for the seizures, Andy was there for all of that, he was able to take time off and I think everybody at work was really understanding about it. It was just your own I think expectations to it, you you felt really bad because the nature of his position is that he is the one who does that work. You know it's there isn't it.   [00:26:55.780] - Andy Long We a very lean operation. So there wasn't a second person or third person who did my role. I was the president who was in charge of those dealership roles and those tasks. So, if I wasn't there there, I was nervous that those were going to get done and the dealership was going to suffer substantially because we don't have someone else who backed up my role   [00:27:18.730] - Beth Long But, that's when we did make some major changes.   [00:27:22.860] - Andy Long Yeah it wasn't that Beth had not brought up the work life or work family life balance before, but she said it was a lot more urgency in, I think that the combination of events finally got through to me and I realized, man this is crazy. I'm putting work way before my family. I need to make some big changes. And we did after that. It took about a year to enact all the changes. But there is a shift at work. I requested to be moved from what I was doing to another role, which required some really difficult conversations over a period of about six months with my grandfather, who's the owner of the dealership, and we had some conversations about what that would look like and how that's very different than the way he came up in the business, which was a lot more old school of, you work every hour that the dealership is open. You're at the at the bridge of the ship. You're commanding it. You've got to be there every minute every day. And what that would look like maybe  for my schedule, which was going to be more family focused and maybe more new school and millennial where I'm placing a greater, a greater value on being with my family and having time away from the dealership, which was some pretty new territory for him but we were able to work it out.   [00:28:41.500] - Beth Long Yeah. It's a difficult conversation as you can imagine to have with your grandfather, because I think it feels a bit to him like an indictment of the way he raised his family. And so, he had five children and they are greatly loved and he showed his love by working super hard for them and providing for them. And so, when Andy says I want to do it this way it feels a bit like, hey you did it the wrong way. And that's a really difficult conversation to have with your grandfather.   [00:29:06.940] - Liesel Mertes The complications of what is a culture shift in a lot of ways, and even a translation of a different set of values coming in and being, still furthering the mission of the company, but not the way things have been done before. This been a really helpful conversation on so many levels, as you think back and have snapshot in your mind of yourselves as you're going through that super intense season, what words would you offer back to that to that version of Andy or Beth from where you are now?   [00:29:47.410] - Andy Long Well, hindsight is 20 20. And as I look back at the younger Andy of those years he was so wrapped up in the culture of the business that he was in. He was really blinded to the effects that it was having on his family and the tremendous amount of stress it was putting on Beth and his kids. And it seems crazy now that I would have thought, yeah it's totally normal, I should have my Mom pick up my wife and newborn baby from the NICU and bring him home. In the moment, that felt like the appropriate thing to do for work. So, sagely old Andy would tell that young guy,hey there is, that's crazy and you need to try and seek that balance way before you get to a point where you're at your wits end and you're really just treading water and trying to make it through each day. We should have addressed those concerns years previously and tried to figure out, hey what's a, how can we slide gradually into a different schedule or how can we have some backup at work that or some overlapping roles that would allow not just me but other managers to take more time off if something like this happens or to to enjoy a better work life balance?  We should have addressed those years ago not just when a crisis comes.   [00:31:04.150] - Beth Long Yeah, and I would say, for me, this is something I really had to become more comfortable with. But, in the beginning, did not know what to do when people said, let me know how I can help. You know, alright, let me let me...even when they were specific about it, let me take your kids or you know, in the beginning I felt very uncomfortable taking that kind of help. But pretty quickly realized like nope, I just need to say yes you could take my girls or you could come over you know whatever those things were that were going help, I had to get real about that because I I couldn't do it. I really needed that backup.   [00:31:39.750] - Andy Long Beth is really independent. And I do remember us having that conversation about, it was it was unnatural and a little bit against your personality to accept help especially from strangers or people that we didn't know really well. It was different when your best friends like, let me take your girls. But when someone from church was like hey let me bring you a meal or can I bring you some groceries. That felt maybe uncomfortable at the beginning, especially because Beth is very independent, so that was a big change, but it was a good change once we said hey these people are wanting to engage with us wanting to help. This is the way that they're going to show us love. We need to be way more accepting of it. That was huge.   [00:32:19.570] - Beth Long And I think, also, one thing I wish that I would have done is just feel more comfortable to be, to tell people, this is how I'm struggling I feel, I actually later in the year started extreme problems sleeping. I started having chest pains and I felt like I was going crazy, which I think if I had just talked to people they would say know that, you're experiencing anxiety and you probably should be based on your life circumstances right now. It took me slowly telling people small parts of that to put that all together, but I wish that I would have been braver with those emotions to say, hey here's what I'm experiencing. What do I do with this? Or even start, as I ended up seeing a counselor starting in the fall. And I wish I would have started much earlier. So that's something I would have told myself like:  hey look at your life right now. In fact I remember once in that time in that six month timeframe someone gave me a picture that said something about:  in mountains high and valleys low, ttill I am with you. And I was like, why did they give me this? Which is like, I was so unaware of like how chaotic my own life was that I was like, Oh this is a valley low. You know, I didn't even, I wasn't aware enough to know that I needed help beyond groceries, that I needed to see a counselor that I needed to work through the aftermath of watching my son go through seizures that I needed...the traumatic birth, I needed to go through that. You know I need to talk to me about that. So that took me a long time to realize, hey I need to deal with this and my body betrayed me, because I thought I was doing so well. I thought I was holding it together so well. But then I was not sleeping. You know, I started sleeping as you're having chest pains and my body said, Look you're not handling this as well as you think you are   Musical Interlude Here are three take-aways from my conversation with Andy and Beth What are the implicit demands that your company makes on employees? Have you stopped to wonder?  If not, now is a good time to ask.  Go ask a coworker or a direct report about how they think the company views time off.  And, call this lesson 1, part b, do you have established policies around time off and leave? Andy and Beth were trailblazers in many ways, creating policies and precedent around NICU stays and adoption. If you don’t have established policies, its time to get some things in writing.  As you create these policies, ponder, what kind of a culture do you want to create?  If you are going through the stress of an adoption or a prolonged hospital stay or any sort of substantial stress, coax yourself to be able to accept the help that is offered.Taking your other children to play, receiving a delivery of groceries, it is good to be able to accept the help that is offered.  Beth talked about the world of adoption policy and news and updates that was “an entirely different language” than what was being spoken around her in southern Indiana.If you are part of a support system for someone that is going through an adoption process, take time to ask them about the policy and the Facebook groups.  And then listen. Really listen. Andy and Beth spoke about how it was difficult for them to feel that some people close to them were not “in their corner” and rooting for the adoption to go forward, as you hear about difficulties or obstacles, before rushing to judgment and advice, instead consider offering a statement like, “I’m so sorry for that hassle!  That sounds complicated and difficult; I imagine that you just want to be united with your son or daughter as soon as possible.”  This sort of statement conveys empathy without pronouncing judgment.   Outro

托福雅思口语太难？快来和安迪一起学习地道的美语来征服雅思托福口语吧！ 今日话题：Talk about your favorite movie. Please include details in your answer. 解题方案：自己例子+他人例子 Andy 在美国洛杉矶好莱坞环球影城 哈利波特魔法乐园和霍格奥兹合唱团合影 解题思路：5Ws+Result What is the movie? Andy: Harry Potter When did you watch the movie? Andy: When I was in elementary school Who wrote the book? Andy: J.K.Rowling, a famous writer in Britain. Who were in the movie?? Andy: Harry, Ron and Hermione What happened? Andy: They went to Hogwarts（霍格奥兹魔法学校） to study. Which tools did they use? They used wands （魔杖） to perform magic and used broomsticks（飞天扫把）to fly. What did they do? Andy: 1. They learned spells (魔咒) like: Wingardium Leviosa（悬浮咒） to lift objects; Lumos（荧光咒） to glow in the dark; and Aloh...