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Our Global Head of Fixed Income Research Andrew Sheets and Global Chief Economist Seth Carpenter unpack the inner workings of the Federal Reserve to illustrate the challenges that Fed chair nominee Kevin Warsh may face.Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.----- Transcript ----- Andrew Sheets: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Andrew Sheets, Global Head of Fixed Income Research at Morgan Stanley. Seth Carpenter: And I'm Seth Carpenter, Morgan Stanley's Global Chief Economist and Head of Macro Research. Andrew Sheets: And today on the podcast, a further discussion of a new Fed chair and the challenges they may face. It's Friday, February 6th at 1 pm in New York. Seth, it's great to be here talking with you, and I really want to continue a conversation that listeners have been hearing on this podcast over this week about a new nominee to chair the Federal Reserve: Kevin Warsh. And you are the perfect person to talk about this, not just because you lead our economic research and our macro research, but you've also worked at the Fed. You've seen the inner workings of this organization and what a new Fed chair is going to have to deal with. So, maybe just for some broad framing, when you saw this announcement come out, what were some of the first things to go through your mind? Seth Carpenter: I will say first and foremost, Kevin Warsh's name was one of the names that had regularly come up when the White House was providing names of people they were considering in lots of news cycles. So, I think the first thing that's critically important from my perspective, is – not a shock, right? Sort of a known quantity. Second, when we think about these really important positions, there's a whole range of possible outcomes. And I would've said that of the four names that were in the final set of four that we kept hearing about in the news a lot. You know, some differences here and there across them, but none of them was substantially outside of what I would think of as mainstream sort of thinking. Nothing excessively unorthodox at all like that. So, in that regard as well, I think it should keep anybody from jumping to any big conclusions that there's a huge change that's imminent. I think the other thing that's really important is the monetary policy of the Federal Reserve really is made by a committee. The Federal Open Market Committee and committee matters in these cases. The Fed has been under lots of scrutiny, under lots of pressure, depending on how you want to put it. And so, as a result, there's a lot of discussion within the institution about their independence, making sure they stick very scrupulously to their congressionally given mandate of stable prices, full employment. And so, what does that mean in practice? That means in practice, to get a substantially different outcome from what the committee would've done otherwise… So, the market is pricing; what's the market pricing for the funds rate at the end of this year? About 3.2 percent. Andrew Sheets: Something like that. Yeah. Seth Carpenter: Yeah. So that's a reasonable forecast. It's not too far away from our house view. For us to end up with a policy rate that's substantially away from that – call it 1 percentage, 2 percentage points away from that. I just don't see that as likely to happen. Because the committee can be led, can be swayed by the chair, but not to the tune of 1 or 2 percentage points. And so, I think for all those reasons, there wasn't that much surprise and there wasn't, for me, a big reason to fully reevaluate where we think the Fed's going. Andrew Sheets: So let me actually dig into that a little bit more because I know our listeners tune in every day to hear a lot about government meetings. But this is a case where that really matters because I think there can sometimes be a misperception around the power of this position. And it's both one of the most public important positions in the world of finance. And yet, as you mentioned, it is overseeing a committee where the majority matters. And so, can you take us just a little bit inside those discussions? I mean, how does the Fed Chair interact with their colleagues? How do they try to convince them and persuade them to take a particular course of action? Seth Carpenter: Great question. And you're right, I sort of spent a bunch of time there at the Fed. I started when Greenspan was chair. I worked under the Bernanke Fed. And of course, for the end of that, Janet Yellen was the vice chair. So, I've worked with her. Jay Powell was on the committee the whole time. So, the cast of characters quite familiar and the process is important. So, I would say a few things. The chair convenes the meetings; the chair creates the agenda for the meeting. The chair directs the staff on what the policy documents are that the committee is going to get. So, there's a huge amount of influence, let's say, there. But in order to actually get a specific outcome, there really is a vote. And we only have to look back a couple weeks to the last FOMC meeting when there were two dissents against the policy decision. So, dissents are not super common. They don't happen at every single meeting, but they're not unheard of by any stretch of the imagination either. And if we go back over the past few years, lots going on with inflation and how the economy was going was uncertain. Chair Powell took some dissents. If we go back to the financial crisis Chair Bernanke took a bunch of dissents. If we go back even further through time, Paul Volcker, when he was there trying to staunch the flow of the high inflation of the 1970s, faced a lot of resistance within his committee. And reportedly threatened to quit if he couldn't get his way. And had to be very aggressive in trying to bring the committee along. So, the chair has to find a way to bring the committee along with the plan that the chair wants to execute. Lots of tools at their disposal, but not endless power or influence. Does that make sense? Andrew Sheets: That makes complete sense. So, maybe my final question, Seth, is this is a tough job. This is a tough job in… Seth Carpenter: You mean your job and my job, or… Andrew Sheets: [Laughs] Not at all. The chair of the Fed. And it seems especially tricky now. You know, inflation is above the Fed's target. Interest rates are still elevated. You know, certainly mortgage rates are still higher than a lot of Americans are used to over the last several years. And asset prices are high. You know, the valuation of the equity market is high. The level of credit spreads is tight. So, you could say, well, financial conditions are already quite easy, which can create some complications. I am sure Kevin Warsh is receiving lots of advice from lots of different angles. But, you know, if you think about what you've seen from the Fed over the years, what would be your advice to a new Fed chair – and to navigate some of these challenges? Seth Carpenter: I think first and foremost, you are absolutely right. This is a tough job in the best of times, and we are in some of the most difficult and difficult to understand macroeconomic times right now. So, you noted interest rates being high, mortgage rates being high. There's very much an eye of the beholder phenomenon going on here. Now you're younger than I am. The first mortgage I had. It was eight and a half percent. Andrew Sheets: Hmm. Seth Carpenter: I bought a house in 2000 or something like that. So, by those standards, mortgage rates are actually quite low. So, it really comes down to a little bit of what you're used to. And I think that fact translates into lots of other places. So, inflation is now much higher than the committee's target. Call it 3 percent inflation instead core inflation on PCE, rather than 2 percent inflation target. Now, on the one hand that's clearly missing their target and the Fed has been missing their target for years. And we know that tariffs are pushing up inflation, at least for consumer goods. And Chair Powell and this committee have said they get that. They think that inflation will be temporary, and so they're going to look through that inflation. So again, there's a lot of judgment going on here. The labor market is quite weak. Andrew Sheets: Hmm. Seth Carpenter: We don't have the latest months worth of job market data because of the government shutdown; that'll be delayed by a few days. But we know that at the end of last year, non-farm payrolls were running well below 50,000. Under most circumstances, you would say that is a clear indication of a super weak economy. But! But if we look at aggregate spending data, GDP, private-domestic final purchases, consumer spending, CapEx spending. It's actually pretty solid right now. And so again, that sense of judgment; what's the signal you're going to look for? That's very, very difficult right now, and that's part of what the chair is going to have to do to try to bring the committee together, in order to come to a decision. So, one intellectually coherent argument is – the main way you could get strong aggregate demand, strong spending numbers, strong GDP numbers, but with pretty tepid labor force growth is if productivity is running higher and if productivity is going higher because of AI, for example, over time you could easily expect that to be disinflationary. And if it's disinflationary, then you can cut it. Interest rates now. Not worry as much as you would normally about high inflation. And so, the result could be a lower path for policy rates. So that's one version of the argument that I suspect you're going to hear. On the other hand, inflation is high and it's been high for years. So what does that mean? Well. History suggests that if inflation stays too high for too long, inflation psychology starts to change the way businesses start to set. Andrew Sheets: Mm-hmm. Seth Carpenter: Their own prices can get a little bit loosey-goosey. They might not have to worry as much about consumers being as picky because everybody's got used to these price changes. Consumers might be become less picky because, well, they're kind of sick of shopping around. They might be more willing to accept those higher prices, and that's how things snowball. So, I do think that the new chair is going to face a particularly difficult situation in leading a committee in particularly challenging times. But I've gone on for a long, long time there. And one of the things that I love about getting to talk to you, Andrew, is the fact that you also talked to lots of investors all around the world. You're based in London. And so when the topic of the new Fed chair comes up, what are the questions that you're getting from clients? Andrew Sheets: So, I think that there are a few questions that stand out. I mean, I think a dominant question among investors was around the stability of the U.S. dollar. And so, you could say a good development on the back of Kevin Warsh's nomination is that the market response to that has been the price action you would associate with more stability. You've seen the dollar rise; you've seen precious metals prices fall. You've seen equity markets and credit spreads be very stable. So, I think so far everything in the market reaction is to your; to the point that you raised, you know, consistent with this still being orthodox policy. Every Fed chair is different, but still more similar than different now. I think where it gets more divergent in client opinions is just – what are we going to see from the Fed? Are we going to see a real big change in policy? And I think that this is where there are very different views of Kevin Warsh from investors. Some who say, ‘Well, he's in the past talked about fighting inflation more aggressively, which would imply tighter policy.' And he's also talked more recently about the productivity gains from AI and how that might support lower interest rates. So, I think that there's going to be a lot of interest when he starts to speak publicly, when we see testimony in front of the Senate. I think the other, the final piece, which I think again, people do not have as fully formed an opinion on yet is – how does he lead the Fed if the data is unexpected? And you know, you mentioned inflation and, you know, Morgan Stanley has this forecast that: Well, owner's equivalent rent, a really key part of inflation, might be a little bit higher than expected, which might be a distortion coming off of the government shutdown and impacts on data. But there's some real uncertainty about the inflation path over the near term. And so, in short, I think investors are going to give the benefit of the doubt. For now, I think they're going to lean more into this idea that it will be generally consistent with the Fed easing policy over time, for now. Generally consistent with a steeper curve for now. But I think there's a lot we're going to find out over the next couple of weeks and months. Seth Carpenter: Yeah. No, I agree with you. Andrew, I have to say, I'm glad you're here in New York. It's always great to sit down and talk to you. Let's do it again before too long. Andrew Sheets: Absolutely, Seth. Thanks for taking the time to talk. And to our audience, thank you as always for your time. If you find Thoughts the Market useful, let us know by leaving a review wherever you listen. And also tell a friend or colleague about us today.

This week Chris joins Brad to discuss various topics, including Chris's gaming history, Highguard, Code Vein 2, Dragon Quest VII: Reimagined, and more! Please keep in mind that our timestamps are approximate, and will often be slightly off due to dynamic ad placement. 0:00:00 - Intro0:40:42 - Chris's gaming deep dive up until this point.0:44:14 - Highguard1:11:10 - Code Vein II1:22:57 - Exit 81:29:59 - Sort it Out/Keep it Up1:49:47 - Game Recommendation1:51:12 - Dragon Quest VII: Reimagined1:57:09 - Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow2:14:15 - Closing Questions To watch the podcast on YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/LastStandMediaYouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/SummonSign⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ If you like the show, telling a friend about it would be amazing! You can text, email, Tweet, or send this link to a friend: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/SummonSign⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In his latest ‘Three Games to Watch in Germany' installment, Manu Veth takes you across the Bundesrepublik to highlight three games you should be tuning into this weekend. Manu kicks off the show with the Rheinderby, though, as he points out, it will only be a proper derby if Leverkusen are defeated by Gladbach. Up next, Manu chats about Hannover versus Holstein Kiel before heading down to the 3. Liga where Energie Cottbus face in-form Ingolstadt. Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Favour Obasi-ike, MBA, MS delves into the intricacies of social media marketing, with a special focus on hacking the Instagram and TikTok algorithms. Favour shares valuable insights on how to gain maximum visibility and grow your business by understanding the underlying mechanics of these platforms. The episode covers the importance of creating engaging content, the power of a strong call to action, and the strategic use of social media analytics. Favour also introduces a powerful tool called "Sort Feed" for analyzing content performance and provides a live demonstration of how to leverage it for your own business. This episode is packed with actionable tips and strategies for anyone looking to up their social media game in 2026.Book SEO Services | Quick Links for Social Business>> ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Book SEO Services with Favour Obasi-ike⁠>> Visit Work and PLAY Entertainment website to learn about our digital marketing services>> ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our exclusive SEO Marketing community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠>> Read SEO Articles>> ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to the We Don't PLAY Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠>> Purchase Flaev Beatz Beats Online>> Favour Obasi-ike Quick LinksLearning TopicsUnderstanding Social Media Algorithms: Learn the difference between social media platforms and search engines, and how to leverage their APIs for growth.Content Strategy: Discover how to create content that resonates with your audience and encourages engagement.The Power of Call to Action (CTA): Understand the importance of a clear and compelling CTA in driving user action.Leveraging Social Media Analytics: Learn how to use tools like "Sort Feed" to analyze content performance and gain a competitive edge.The Psychology of Social Media: Explore the psychological principles behind effective social media marketing, including the use of color and emotional triggers.Cross-Platform Promotion: Discover how to increase the visibility of your social media content by embedding it on your website.Episode Timestamps[00:00 - 02:00] Introduction to the topic: Social Media Marketing, Instagram and TikTok algorithm hacks.[02:00 - 04:10] Introduction to the "Sort Feed" tool for analyzing Instagram and TikTok content.[08:02 - 10:13] The difference between social media platforms and search engines.[20:05 - 25:15] Analysis of a viral post and the importance of a strong CTA.[40:08 - 46:22] The power of comments and engagement in boosting visibility.[53:01 - 58:24] How to embed social media posts on your website to increase reach.[58:08 - 58:24] The psychology of color in marketing.[01:15:11 - 01:16:52] Recap and key takeaways.Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)Q: What is "Sort Feed" and how can it help my business?A: Sort Feed is a Google Chrome Extension tool that allows you to sort and analyze Instagram and TikTok content by various metrics such as likes, comments, and views. It can help you understand what content is performing well in your industry, identify trends, and gain insights to inform your own content strategy.Q: Should I focus on creating content for the algorithm or for my audience?A: While it's important to understand the algorithm, the primary focus should always be on creating valuable and engaging content for your audience. By building a strong connection with your followers, you will naturally see better results in the long run.Q: How can I increase the visibility of my social media posts?A: One effective strategy is to embed your social media posts on your website or blog. This can help you reach a wider audience and drive more traffic to your social media profiles.Q: What is the most important element of a social media post?A: A clear and compelling call to action (CTA) is one of the most important elements of a social media post. It tells your audience what you want them to do next, whether it's to like, comment, share, or visit your website.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today on the pod: a conversation with Kate Constantine in which we review our “25 in 25” movie challenge, which was not so much a challenge but a vague statement of purpose and intention. We'll explain it. Sort of.Did you know this podcast is ten years old? Episode 1 of what was then called “The Last Podcast” first aired on January 19th, 2016. I will try to process that next time. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit zaclittle.substack.com

Chelsea have been well and truly dumped from their perch. Chloe and Rachel react to a remarkable game at the Etihad where Man City ran riot and Sonia Bompastor and her players were left stunned. We discuss the reaction among Chelsea circles and what's really behind their rapid demise from unbeaten WSL juggernauts.Elsewhere, Arsenal battle past Corinthians and their incredibly vibey fans – while Rach walks Chloe through the truly bizarre trophy presentation that followed. Plus, a quick round-up of the biggest transfer stories before the window shuts! Where will Katie McCabe be off to this summer?Follow us on X, Instagram, BlueSky and YouTube! Email us show@upfrontpod.com.For ad-free episodes and much more from across our football shows, head over to the Football Ramble Patreon and subscribe: patreon.com/footballramble.**Please rate and review us on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your pods. It means a lot and makes it easy for other people to find us. Thank you!** Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony and Jesse continue their deep dive into the Parable of the Prodigal Son by examining the often-overlooked character of the elder brother. While the younger son's rebellion is obvious, the elder brother's self-righteous moralism represents a more subtle—and perhaps more dangerous—form of lostness. Through careful exegesis of Luke 15:25-32, the hosts explore how religious performance, resentment of grace, and merit-based thinking can keep us far from the Father's heart even while we remain close to the Father's house. This conversation challenges listeners to examine their own hearts for traces of elder brother theology and calls us to celebrate the scandalous grace that restores sinners to sonship. Key Takeaways Two ways to be lost: The parable presents both flagrant rebellion (the younger son) and respectable self-righteousness (the elder son) as forms of spiritual lostness that require God's grace. The elder brother's geographic and spiritual position: Though physically near the house and faithful in service, the elder brother was spiritually distant from the father's heart, unable to celebrate grace extended to others. Moralism as a subtle distance: Self-righteous religion can be more deceptive than open rebellion because it appears virtuous while actually rejecting the father's character and values. The father pursues both sons: God's gracious pursuit extends not only to the openly rebellious but also to the self-righteous, demonstrating that election and grace are sovereign gifts, not earned rewards. The unresolved ending: The parable intentionally leaves the elder brother's response unstated, creating narrative tension that challenges the original audience (Pharisees and scribes) and modern readers to examine their own response to grace. Adoption as the frame of obedience: True Christian obedience flows from sonship and inheritance ("all that I have is yours"), not from a wage-earning, transactional relationship with God. Resentment reveals our theology: When we find ourselves unable to celebrate the restoration of repentant sinners, we expose our own need for repentance—not from scandal, but from envy and pride. Key Concepts The Elder Brother's Subtle Lostness The genius of Jesus' parable is that it exposes a form of lostness that religious people rarely recognize in themselves. The elder brother never left home, never squandered his inheritance, and never violated explicit commands. Yet his response to his brother's restoration reveals a heart fundamentally opposed to the father's character. His complaint—"I have served you all these years and never disobeyed your command"—demonstrates that he viewed his relationship with the father transactionally, as an employer-employee arrangement rather than a father-son bond. This is the essence of legalism: performing religious duties while remaining distant from God's heart. The tragedy is that the elder brother stood within reach of everything the father had to offer yet experienced none of the joy, fellowship, or security of sonship. This form of lostness is particularly dangerous because it wears the mask of righteousness and often goes undetected until grace is extended to someone we deem less deserving. The Father's Gracious Pursuit of the Self-Righteous Just as the father ran to meet the returning younger son, he also went out to plead with the elder brother to come into the feast. This detail is theologically significant: God pursues both the openly rebellious and the self-righteous with the same gracious initiative. The father's response to the elder brother's complaint is not harsh correction but tender invitation: "Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours." This reveals that the problem was never scarcity or the father's favoritism—the elder brother had always possessed full access to the father's resources and affection. The barrier was entirely on the son's side: his inability to receive sonship as a gift rather than a wage. This mirrors the historical situation of the Pharisees and scribes who grumbled at Jesus for receiving sinners. They stood adjacent to the kingdom, surrounded by the promises and covenant blessings of God, yet remained outside because they could not accept grace as the principle of God's dealing with humanity. The invitation still stood, but it required them to abandon their merit-based system and enter the feast as recipients of unearned favor. The Unresolved Ending and Its Challenge to Us Luke deliberately leaves the parable unfinished—we never learn whether the elder brother eventually joined the celebration. This narrative technique places the reader in the position of the elder brother, forcing us to answer for ourselves: will we enter the feast or remain outside in bitter resentment? For the original audience of Pharisees and scribes, this unresolved ending was a direct challenge to their response to Jesus' ministry. Would they continue to grumble at God's grace toward tax collectors and sinners, or would they recognize their own need and join the celebration? For contemporary readers, the question remains equally pressing. When we hear of a notorious sinner coming to faith, do we genuinely rejoice, or do we scrutinize their repentance with suspicion? When churches extend membership to those with broken pasts, do we celebrate restoration or quietly question whether they deserve a place at the table? The parable's open ending is not a literary flaw but a pastoral strategy: it refuses to let us remain passive observers and demands that we examine whether we harbor elder brother theology in our own hearts. Memorable Quotes The father's household is a place where grace produces joy, not just merely relief. The elder brother hears the joy before he sees it. That's often how resentment works, isn't it? We're alerted to the happiness of others and somehow there's this visceral response of wanting to be resentful toward that joy, toward that unmerited favor. — Jesse Schwamb There is a way to be near the house, church adjacent, religiously active, yet to be really far from the father's heart. The elder brother is not portrayed as an atheist, but as a moralist. And moralism can be a more subtle distance than open rebellion. — Jesse Schwamb God doesn't keep sinners from repenting. The reprobate are not prohibited or prevented by God from coming to faith. They're being kept out by their own stubborn refusal to come in. That's where this punchline hits so hard. — Tony Arsenal Full Transcript [00:00:44] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 477 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  [00:00:51] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.  [00:00:55] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother.  [00:00:56] Parables and God's Word [00:00:56] Jesse Schwamb: Speaking of ears to hear, it struck me that this whole thing we've been doing all this parable talk is really after the manner of God's words. And one of the things I've really grown to appreciate is how God speaks to the condition of those whom he addresses. He considers our ability, our capacity as his hearers to process what he's saying, and that leads into these amazing parables that we've been talking about. He doesn't speak as he is able to speak. So to speak, but I didn't mean that to happen. But as we were able to hear, and that means he spoke in these lovely parables so that we might better understand him. And today we're gonna get into some of the drama of the best, like the crown jewel as we've been saying, of maybe all the parables. The Parable of the Lost Son. We spoke a little bit about it in the last episode. Definitely want to hit that up because it's setting you up for this one, which is the definitive episode. But now we're gonna talk about this first, this younger lost son. Get into some of all of these like juicy details about what takes place, and really, again, see if we can find the heart of God. Spoiler. We can and we'll,  [00:02:04] Tony Arsenal: yeah,  [00:02:04] Affirmations and Denials [00:02:04] Jesse Schwamb: but before we do both of those things, it's of course always time at this moment to do a little affirming with or denying against. Of course, if you haven't heard us before, that's where we take a moment to say, is there something that we think is undervalued that we wanna bring forward that we'd recommend or think is awesome? Or conversely, is there something that's overvalued that's just, we're over it. The vibe is done. We're gonna deny against that. So I say to you, as I often do, Tony, are you affirming with or deny against?  [00:02:31] Tony's Nerdy Hobby: Dungeons and Dragons [00:02:31] Tony Arsenal: I'm affirming tonight. Um, I don't know how much the audience realizes of a giant ridiculous nerd I am, but we're about to go to entirely new giant nerd depths. [00:02:43] Jesse Schwamb: All right. I  [00:02:43] Tony Arsenal: think,  [00:02:44] Jesse Schwamb: let's hear it.  [00:02:44] Tony Arsenal: So, um, I was a huge fan of Stranger Things. Some, there's some issues with the show, and I understand why some people might not, um, might not feel great about watching it. You know, I think it falls within Christian liberty. But one of the main themes of the show, this is not a spoiler, you learn about this in episode one, is the whole game. The whole show frames itself around Dungeons and Dragons, right? It's kind of like a storytelling device within the show that the kids play, Dungeons and Dragons, and everything that happens in the Dungeons and Dragons game that they're playing, sort of like, um, foreshadows what's actually gonna happen in the show. Which funny if, you know Dungeons and Dragons lore, you kind of learn the entire plot of the story like ahead of time. Um, but so I, stranger Things just finished up and I've kind of been like itching to get into Dungeons and Dragons. I used to play a little bit of tabletop when I was in high school, in early college and um, I just really like the idea of sort of this collaborative storytelling game. Um, whether it's Dungeon Dragons or one of the other systems, um, Dungeons and Dragons is the most popular. It's the most well published. It's the most well established and it's probably the easiest to find a group to play with. Although it is very hard to find a group to play with, especially, uh, kind of out in the middle of nowhere where I live. So this is where the ultra super nerdy part comes in.  [00:04:02] Jesse Schwamb: Alright, here we  [00:04:03] Tony Arsenal: go. I have been painstakingly over the last week teaching Google Gemini. To be a dungeon master for me. So I've been playing Dungeons and Dragons more or less by myself with, uh, with Google Gemini, and I'm just having a lot of fun with it. Um, you can get a free copy of the rules online if you, I think it's DND, the letter NDND beyond.com. They have a full suite of like tools to create your character. Access to a basic set of the core rules. Um, you can spend a lot of money on Dungeons and Dragons, uh, and if you want to like really get into it, the books are basically textbooks. Like you're buying $300 or 300 page, $300, 300 page textbooks, um, that are not all that differently costs than like college textbooks. You'll buy a 300 page Dungeon master guide that's like $50 if you want a paper copy. So, but you can get into it for free. You can get the free rolls online, you can use their dungeon, the d and d Beyond app and do all your dice rolls for free. Um, you, you can get a free dice roller online if you don't want to do their, their app. Um, but it's just a lot of fun. I've just been having a lot of fun and I found that the, I mean. When you play a couple sessions with it, you see that the, the um, the A IDM that I've created, like it follows the same story beats 'cause it's only got so much to work with in its language model. Um, but I'm finding ways to sort of like break it out of that model by forcing it to refer to certain websites that are like Dungeons and Dragons lore websites and things like build your, build your campaign from this repository of Dungeons and Dragons stuff. So. I think you could do this with just about any sort of narrative storytelling game like this, whether you're playing a different system or d and d Pathfinders. I mean, there's all sorts of different versions of it, but it's just been a lot of fun to see, see it going. I'm trying to get a group together. 'cause I think I would, I would probably rather play Dungeons and Dragons with people, um, and rather do it in person. But it's hard to do up here. It's hard to get a, get a group going. So that's my super nerdy affirmation. I'm not just affirming Dungeons and Dragons, which would already be super nerdy. I'm affirming playing it by myself on my phone, on the bus with Google Gemini, AI acting like I'm not. Just this weird antisocial lunatic. So I'm having a lot of fun with it.  [00:06:20] Jesse Schwamb: So there are so many levels of inception there. Yeah. Like the inception and everything you just said. I love it.  [00:06:27] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Well, what I'm learning is, um, you can give an, and, and this is something I didn't realize, what ai, I guess I probably should have, you know, it's not like an infinite thing. Um, you can give an AI instructions and if your chat gets long enough, it actually isn't referring back to the very beginning of the chat most of the time. Right. There's a, there's like a win context window of about 30 responses. So like if you tell the AI, don't roll the dice for me, like, let me roll dices that are related to my actions, eventually it will forget that. So part of what I've been doing is basically building, I'm using Google Gemini when the AI does something I don't want it to do, I say, you just did something I don't want it to do. Gimme a diagnostic report of why you did that. It will explain to me why it did what it did. Right. Why it didn't observe the rules. And then I'm feeding that into another. Prompt that is helping me generate better prompts that it refers back to. So it's kind of this weird iterative, um, yeah, I, I don't, I'm like, I maybe I'm gonna create the singularity. I'm not sure. Maybe this is gonna be possible. We should sit over the edge. It's gonna, it's gonna learn how to cast magic spells and it's gonna fire bolt us in the face or something like that. Right. But, uh, again, high risk. I, I, for one, welcome our AO AI dungeon masters. So check it out. You should try it. If you could do this with chat GPT, you could do it with any ai. Um, it, it, it is going to get a little, I have the benefit because I have a Google Workspace account. I have access to Google Pro or the Gemini Pro, which is a better model for this kind of thing. But you could do this with, with chat GPT or something like that. And it's gonna be more or less the same experience, I think. But I'm having a, I'm having a ton of fun with it. Um. Again, I, I, there's something about just this, Dungeons and Dragons at its core is a, it's like a, an exercise in joint storytelling, which is really fascinating and interesting to me. Um, and that's what most tabletop RPGs are like. I suppose you get into something like War Hammer and it's a little bit more like a board. It's a mixture of that plus a board game. But Dungeons and Dragons, the DM is creating the, I mean, not the entire world, but is creating the narrative. And then you as a player are an actor within that narrative. And then there's a certain element of chance that dice rolls play. But for the most part, um, you're driving the story along. You're telling the story together. So it's, it's pretty interesting. I've also been watching live recordings of Dungeons and Dragon Sessions on YouTube. Oh,  [00:08:50] Jesse Schwamb: wow.  [00:08:51] Tony Arsenal: Like, there's a, there's a channel called Critical Role. Like these sessions are like three and a half hours long. So, wow. I just kinda have 'em on in the background when I'm, when I'm, uh, working or if I'm, you know, doing something else. Um, but it's really interesting stuff. It's, it's pretty cool. I think it's fun. I'm a super nerd. I'm, I'm no shame in that. Um, I'm just really enjoying it.  [00:09:09] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, nerdery is great. That's like part of the zeitgeist now. Listen to culture. It's cool to be a nerd. I don't know much about d and d. I've heard a lot about this idea of this community that forms around. Yeah. The story, correct me if I'm wrong, can't these things go on for like years, decades?  [00:09:25] Tony Arsenal: Oh yeah, yeah. Like, you can do there. There, some of this has made its way into the official rule books, but basically you could do what's called a one shot, which is like a self-contained story. Usually a single session, you know, like you get a Dungeon master, game master, whichever you wanna call the person. Three to four, maybe five characters, player characters. And one session is usually about two hours long. So it's not like you sit down for 20 minutes, 30 minutes at a time and play this right. And you could do a one shot, which is a story that's designed to, to live all within that two hour session. Um, some people will do it where there isn't really any planned like, outcome of the story. The, the DM just kind of makes up things to do as they go. And then you can have campaigns, which is like, sometimes it's like a series of one shots, but more, it is more like a long term serialized period, you know, serialized campaign where you're doing many, um, many, many kinds of, uh, things all in one driving to like a big epic goal or battle at the end, right? Um, some groups stay together for a really long time and they might do multiple campaigns, so there's a lot to it. Game's been going on for like 50, 60, 70 years, something like that. I don't remember exactly when it started, but  [00:10:41] Jesse Schwamb: yeah.  [00:10:41] Tony Arsenal: Um, it's an old game. It's kinda like the doctor who of of poor games and it's like the original tabletop role playing game, I think. [00:10:47] Jesse Schwamb: Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Again, there's something really appealing to me about not just that cooperative storytelling, but cooperative gameplay. Everybody's kind of in it together for the most part. Yeah. Those conquest, as I understand them, are joint in nature. You build solidarity, but if you're meeting with people and having fun together and telling stories and interacting with one another, there's a lot of good that comes out of that stuff there. A lot of lovely common grace in those kind of building, those long-term interactions, relationships, entertainment built on being together and having good, clean, fun together.  [00:11:17] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Well, and it's, you know, it's, um. It's an interesting exercise. It's it, in some ways it's very much like improv. Like you, you think of like an improv comedy like show I've been to somewhere. Like, you know, you go to the show and it's an improv troupe, but they're like calling people from the crowd up and asking them for like different scenarios they might do. It's kind of like that in that like the GM can plan a whole, can plan a whole thing. But if I as a player character, um. And I've done this to the virtual one just to see what it does, and it's done some interesting things. One of the campaigns I was playing, I had rescued a merchant from some giant spiders and I was helping, like, I was helping like navigate them through the woods to the next town. And we kept on getting attacked and just outta nowhere. I was like, what if I sort of act as though I'm suspicious of this merchant now because why are we getting attacked all the time? And so I, I typed in sort of like a little. A mini role play of me accusing this guy. And it was something like, Randall, we get, we're getting attacked a lot for a simple merchant, Randall merchant. What happens if I cast a tech magic? What am I gonna find? And he's like, I don't know what I'm gonna find. I know I don't know anything. And then I cast a tech magic and it shifted. I mean, I don't know where the campaign was gonna go before that, but it shifted the whole thing now where the person who gave him the package he was carrying had betrayed him. It was, so that happens in real life too in these games, real life in these games. That happens in real, in-person sessions too, where a player or a group of players may just decide instead of talking to the contact person that is supposed to give them the clue to find the dungeon they're supposed to go to, instead they ambush them and murder them in gold blood. And now the, the dungeon master has to figure out, how do I get them back to this dungeon when this is the only person that was supposed to know where it is? So it, it does end up really stretching your thinking skills and sort of your improvisational skills. There's an element of, um, you know, like chance with the dice, um, I guess like the dice falls in the lot, but the lot is in the handle. Or like, obviously that's all ordained as well too, but there is this element of chance where even the DM doesn't get to determine everything. Um, if, if I say I want to, I want to try to sneak into this room, but I'm a giant barbarian who has, you know, is wearing like chain mail, there's still a chance I could do it, but the dice roll determines that. It's not like the, the GM just says you can't do that. Um, so it's, it's a, I, I like it. I'm, I'm really looking forward to trying to, getting into it. It is hard to start a group and to get going and, um, there's a part of me that's a little bit. Gun shy of maybe like getting too invested with a group of non-Christians for something like this. 'cause it can get a little weird sometimes. But I think that, I think that'll work out. It'll be fun. I know there's actually some people in our telegram chat. Bing, bing, bing segue. There we go. There's some people in our telegram chat actually, that we're already planning to do a campaign. Um, so we might even do like a virtual reform brotherhood, Dungeons and Dragons group. So that might be a new sub channel in the telegram at some point.  [00:14:13] Jesse Schwamb: There you go. You could jump right in. Go to t.me back slash reform brotherhood.  [00:14:18] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse, what are you affirming since I just spent the last 15 minutes gushing about my nerdy hobby?  [00:14:23] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, no, that was great. Can I, can I just say two things? One is, so you're basically saying it's a bit like, like a troll shows up and everybody's like, yes. And yeah. So I love that idea. Second thing, which is follow up question, very brief. What kind of merchant was Randall.  [00:14:39] Tony Arsenal: Uh, he was a spice trader actually.  [00:14:42] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I don't trust that.  [00:14:43] Tony Arsenal: And, and silk, silk and spices.  [00:14:45] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. That's double, that's too strict.  [00:14:47] Tony Arsenal: He was actually good guy in the, in the story that developed out of this campaign. He actually became part of my family and like, like, like got adopted into the family because he lost everything on his own. Randy we're  [00:15:00] Jesse Schwamb: talking about Randy.  [00:15:01] Tony Arsenal: Randy Randall with one L. Yeah. The AI was very specific about  that.  [00:15:05] Jesse Schwamb: There's, there's nothing about this guy I trust. I, is this still ongoing? Because I think he's just trying to make his way deeper in,  [00:15:11] Tony Arsenal: uh, no, no. It, I'll, I'll wait for next week to tell you how much, even more nerdy this thing gets. But there's a whole thing that ha there was a whole thing out of this That's a tease. Tease. There was a, there was a horse and the horse died and there was lots of tears and there was a wedding and a baby. It was, it's all sorts of stuff going on in this campaign. [00:15:27] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. And I'm sure. Randy was somewhere near that horse when it happened. Right?  [00:15:32] Tony Arsenal: It was his horse.  [00:15:33] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, exactly. That's  [00:15:35] Tony Arsenal: exactly, he didn't, he didn't kill the horse. He had no power to knock down the bridge The horse was standing on.  [00:15:40] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, next week, I'm pretty sure that's what we're gonna learn is that it was all him. [00:15:45] Tony Arsenal: Alright, Jesse, save us from this. Save us from this, please. Uh,  [00:15:49] Jesse Schwamb: no.  What  [00:15:50] Tony Arsenal: you affirming, this is  [00:15:50] Jesse Schwamb: great.  [00:15:50] Jesse's Affirmation: Church Community [00:15:50] Jesse Schwamb: It's possible that there is a crossover between yours and mine if we consider. That the church is like playing a d and d game in the dungeon Masters Christ, and the campaigns, the gospel. So I was thinking maybe is it possible, uh, maybe this is just the, the theology of the cross, but that sometimes, like you need the denial to get to the affirmation. Have we talked about that kind of truth? Yeah,  [00:16:14] Tony Arsenal: yeah,  [00:16:15] Jesse Schwamb: for sure. So here's a little bit of that. I'll be very, very brief and I'm using this not as like just one thing that happened today, but what I know is for sure happening all over the world. And I mean that very literally, not just figuratively when it comes to the body of Christ, the local church. So it snowed here overnight. This was, this is the Lord's Day. We're hanging out in the Lord's Day, which is always a beautiful day to talk about God. And overnight it snowed. The snow stopped relatively late in the morning around the time that everybody would be saying, Hey, it's time to go and worship the Lord. So for those in my area, I got up, we did the whole clearing off the Kai thing. I went to church and I was there a little bit early for a practice for music. And when I pulled in, there weren't many there yet, but the whole parking lot unplowed. So there's like three inches of snow, unplowed parking lot. So I guess the denial is like the plow people decided like, not this time I, I don't think so. They understood they were contracted with the church, but my understanding is that when one of the deacons called, they were like, Ooh, yeah, we're like 35 minutes away right now, so that's gonna be a problem. So when I pulled in, here's what I was. Like surprise to find, but in a totally unexpected way, even though I understand what a surprise is. And that is that, uh, that first the elders and the deacons, everybody was just decided we're going to shovel an entire parking lot. And at some point big, I was a little bit early there, but at some point then this massive text change just started with everybody, which was, Hey, when you come to church, bring your shovel. And I, I will tell you like when I got out of the car. I was so like somebody was immediately running to clear a path with me. One of those like snow pushers, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like one, those beastly kind of like blade things.  [00:17:57] Tony Arsenal: Those things are, those things are the best.  [00:17:59] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. You just run. And so you have never met a group of people that was more happy to shovel an entire large asphalt area, which normally shouldn't even be required. And. It just struck me, even in hindsight now thinking about it, it was this lovely confluence of people serving each other and serving God. It was as if they got up that morning and said, do you know what would be the best thing in the world for me to do is to shovel. And so everybody was coming out. Everybody was shoveling it. It was to protect everyone and to allow one into elaborate, one access. It was just incredible. And so I started this because the affirmation is, I know this happens in, in all of our churches, every God fearing God, loving God serving church, something like this is happening, I think on almost every Lord's day or maybe every day of the week in various capacities. And I just think this is God's people coming together because everybody, I think when we sat down for the message was exhausted, but. But there was so much joy in doing this. I think what you normally would find to be a mundane and annoying task, and the fact that it wasn't just, it was redeemed as if like we, we found a greater purpose in it. But that's, everyone saw this as a way to love each other and to love God, and it became unexpected worship in the parking lot. That's really what it was, and it was fantastic. I really almost hope that we just get rid of the plow company and just do it this way from now on. Yeah, so I'm affirming, recognize people, recognize brothers and sisters that your, your church is doing this stuff all the time and, and be a part of it. Jump in with the kinda stuff because I love how it brings forward the gospel.  [00:19:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great story. It's a great, uh, a great example of the body of Christ being, what the body of Christ is and just pulling together to get it done. Um, which, you know, we do on a spiritual level, I think, more often than a physical level these days. Right, right. But, um, that's great. I'm sitting here going three inches of snow. I would've just pulled into the lot and then pulled out of the lot. But New Hampshire, it hits different in New Hampshire. Like we all d have snow tires and four wheel drive.  [00:20:02] Jesse Schwamb: It's, it's enough snow where it was like pretty wet and heavy that it, if, you know, you pack that stuff down, it gets slick. You can't see the people, like you can't have your elderly people just flying in, coming in hot and then trying to get outta the vehicle, like making their way into church.  [00:20:14] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:20:15] Jesse Schwamb: So there was, there was a lot more of that. But I think again, you would, one of the options would've been like, Hey, why don't we shovel out some sp spaces for the, for those who need it, for, you know, those who need to have access in a way that's a little bit less encumbered. Oh, no, no. These people are like, I see your challenge and I am going to shovel the entire parking lots.  [00:20:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It used to happen once in a while, uh, at the last church, uh, at, um, your dad's church. We would, where the plow would just not come on a Sunday morning or, or more often than not. Um, you know, what happens a lot of times is the plows don't want to come more than once. Right. If they don't have to. Or sometimes they won't come if they think it's gonna melt because they don't want to deal with, uh, with like customers who are mad that you plowed and that it all melts. But either way, once in a while. The plow wouldn't come or it wouldn't come in time. And what we would do is instead of trying to shovel an entire driveway thing, we would just went, the first couple people who would get there, the young guys in the church, there was only a couple of us, but the younger guys in the church would just, we would just be making trips, helping people into the, yeah. Helping people into the building. So, um, it was a pretty, you know, it was a small church, so it was like six trips and we'd have everybody in, but um, we just kind of, that was the way we pulled together. Um, yeah, that's a great, it's a great story. I love, I love stuff like that. Yeah, me too. Whether it's, whether it's, you know, plowing a, a parking lot with shovels instead of a plow, or it's just watching, um, watching the tables and the chairs from the fellowship, you know, all just like disappear because everybody's just, uh, picks up after themselves and cleans and stuff. That's, that's like the most concrete example of the body of Christ doing what the body of Christ does. Um, it's always nice, you know, we always hear jokes about like, who can carry the most, the most chairs,  [00:22:04] Jesse Schwamb: most  [00:22:04] Tony Arsenal: chairs. Uh, I think it's true. Like a lot of times I think like I could do like seven or eight sometimes. [00:22:10] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, you, that's, so, one more thing I wanna say. I, I wanted to tell you this privately, Tony, 'cause it just cracked me up 'cause I, you'll appreciate this. But now I'm realizing I think the brothers and sisters who listened to us talk for any length of time and in the context of this conversation, but the church will appreciate this too. On my way out, I, I happened because I was there early and the snow was crazy. I parked way further out, way on the edge of the lot to just allow for greater access because of all the shoveling that was happening. And by the way, I really hope there were a ton of visitors this morning because they were like, wow, this, this church is wild. They love to shovel their own lot and they're the happiest people doing it. Some sweaty person just ushered me in while they were casting snow. Like,  [00:22:47] Tony Arsenal: is this some new version of snake handling? You shovel your own lot and your impervious to back injuries.  [00:22:53] Jesse Schwamb: Uh. So I was walking out and as I walked past, uh, there was a, uh, two young gentlemen who were congregating by this very large lifted pickup truck, which I don't have much experience with, but it looked super cool and it was started, it was warming up, and they were just like casually, like in the way that only like people with large beards wearing flannel and Carhartt kind of do, like casually leaning against the truck, talking in a way that you're like, wow, these guys are rugged. And they sound, they're super cool, and they're probably like in their twenties. And all I hear as I pass by is one guy going, yeah, well, I mean that's, I was, I said to them too, but I said, listen, I'd rather go to a church with God-fearing women than anywhere else.  [00:23:36] Tony Arsenal: Nice.  [00:23:37] Jesse Schwamb: I was just like, yep. On the prowl and I love it. And they're not wrong. This is the place to be.  [00:23:42] Tony Arsenal: It is.  [00:23:43] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. This is the place to be. Yeah. So all kinds of, all kinds of good things I think going on in that in the house of the Lord and where wherever you're at, I would say be happy and be joyful and look for those things and participate in, like you said, whether it's physical or not, but as soon as you said like the, our young men, our youth somehow have this competition of when we need to like pack up the sanctuary. How many chairs can I take at one time? Yeah. It's like the classic and it just happens. Nobody says like, okay, everybody line up. We're about to embark on the competition now. Like the strong man usher competition. It's just like, it just happens and  [00:24:17] Tony Arsenal: it's  [00:24:17] Jesse Schwamb: incredible.  [00:24:18] Tony Arsenal: I mean, peacocks fan out their tail feathers. Young Christian guys fan out. All of the table chairs, chairs they can carry. It's uh, it's a real phenomena. So I feel like if you watch after a men's gathering, everybody is like carrying one chair at a time because they don't wanna hurt their backs and their arms. Oh, that's  [00:24:36] Jesse Schwamb: true. That's  [00:24:37] Tony Arsenal: what I do. Yeah. But it's when the women are around, that's when you see guys carrying like 19 chairs. Yeah. Putting themselves in the hospital.  [00:24:42] Jesse Schwamb: That's what I, listen, it comes for all of us. Like I, you know, I'm certainly not young anymore by almost any definition, but even when I'm in the mix, I'm like, oh, I see you guys. You wanna play this game? Mm-hmm. Let's do this. And then, you know, I'm stacking chairs until I hurt myself. So it's great. That's, that is what we do for each other. It's  [00:25:01] Tony Arsenal: just, I hurt my neck getting outta bed the other day. So it happens. It's real.  [00:25:05] Jesse Schwamb: The struggle. Yeah, the struggle is real.  [00:25:07] The Parable of the Lost Son [00:25:07] Jesse Schwamb: Speaking of struggle, speaking of family issues, speaking of all kinds of drama, let's get into Luke 15 and let me read just, I would say the first part of this parable, which as we've agreed to talk about, if we can even get this far, it's just the younger son. [00:25:24] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:25:25] Jesse Schwamb: And again, don't worry, we're gonna get to all of it, but let me read beginning in, uh, verse 11 here. This is Luke chapter 15. Come follow along as you will accept if you're operating heavy machinery. And Jesus said, A man had two sons and the younger of them said to his father, father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me. So he divided his wealth between them. And not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country. And there he squandered his estate living recklessly. Now, when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country and it began to be impoverished. So he went and hired himself to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. So he went and as he was desiring to be fed with the pods that the swine were eating because no one was giving anything to him. But when he came to himself, he said, how many of my father's men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger. I'll rise up and go to my father, and I'll say to him, father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, I'm no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me as one of your hired men. So he rose up, came to his father, but while he was still a long way off. His father saw him and felt compassion and ran and embraced him. And the son said to him, father, I've sinned against heaven and before you, I'm no longer worthy to be called your son. But the father said to his slaves, quickly, bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet and bring the fat in calf and slaughter it and let us celebrate. For the son of mine was dead and has come to life again. He was lost and he has been found and they began to celebrate.  [00:27:09] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. This is such a, um, such a, I don't know, like pivotal seminal parable in the Ministry of Christ. Um, it's one of those parables and we, we mentioned this briefly last week that even most. It, it hasn't passed out of the cultural zeitgeist yet. A lot of biblical teaching has, I mean, a lot, I think a lot of things that used to be common knowledge where, where you could make a reference to something in the Bible and people would just get it. Um, even if they weren't Christian or weren't believers, they would still know what you were talking about. There's a lot of things in the Bible that have passed out of that cultural memory. The, the parable of the prodigal son, lost son, however you wanna phrase it, um, that's not one of them. Right. So I think it's really important for us, um, and especially since it is such a beautiful picture of the gospel and it has so many different theological touch points, it's really incumbent on us to spend time thinking about this because I would be willing to bet that if you weave. Elements of this parable into your conversations with nonbelievers that you are praying for and, and, you know, witnessing to and sharing the gospel with, if you weave this in there, you're gonna help like plant some seeds that when it comes time to try to harvest, are gonna pay dividends. Right. So I think it's a really, it's a really great thing that we're gonna be able to spend, you know, a couple weeks really just digging into this. [00:28:40] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, and to define the beginning, maybe from the end, just slightly here, I like what you said about this cultural acknowledgement of this. I think one of the correctives we can provide, which is clear in the story, is in the general cultural sense. We speak of this prodigal as something that just returns comes back, was lost, but now is found. And often maybe there is this component of, in the familial relationship, it's as if they've been restored. Here we're gonna of course find that this coming to one senses is in fact the work of God. That there is, again, a little bit of denial that has to bring forward the affirmation here that is the return. And so again, from the beginning here, we're just talking about the younger son. We have more than youthful ambition.  [00:29:19] The Essence of Idolatry and Sin [00:29:19] Jesse Schwamb: This heart of, give me the stuff now, like so many have said before, is really to say. Give me the gifts and not you, which is, I think, a common fault of all Christians. We think, for instance of heaven, and we think of all the blessings that come with it, but not necessarily of the joy of just being with our savior, being with Christ. And I think there's something here right from the beginning, there's a little bit of this betrayal in showing idolatry, the ugliness of treating God's gifts as if there's something owed. And then this idea that of course. He receives these things and imme more or less immediately sometime after he goes and takes these things and squanderers them. And sin and idolatry, I think tends to accelerate in this way. The distance from the father becomes distance from wisdom. We are pulled away from that, which is good. The father here being in his presence and being under his care and his wisdom and in his fear of influence and concern, desiring then to say, I don't want you just give me the gifts that you allegedly owe me. And then you see how quickly like sin does everything you, we always say like, sin always costs more than you want to pay. And it always takes you further than you want to go. And that's exactly what we see here. Like encapsulated in an actual story of relationship and distance.  [00:30:33] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I think, um. It's interesting to me.  [00:30:39] The Greek Words for Property [00:30:39] Tony Arsenal: You know, I, I, I'm a big fan of saying you don't need to study Greek to understand your Bible, but I'm also a big fan of saying understanding a little bit of Greek is really helpful. And one of the things that I think is really intriguing, and I haven't quite parsed out exactly what I think this means, but the word property in this parable, it actually is two different Greek words that is translated as property, at least in the ESV. And neither one of them really fit. What our normal understanding of property would be. And there are Greek words that refer to like all of your material possessions, but it says, father, give me the share of property. And he uses the word usia, which those of us who have heard anything about the trinity, which is all of us, um, know that that word means something about existence. It's the core essence of a person. So it says, father, give me the share of usia that is coming to me. And then it says, and he divided his bias, his, his life between them. Then it says, not many days later, the younger son gathered all that he had took a journey into the far country. There he squandered his usia again. So this, this parable, Christ is not using the ordinary words to refer to material, uh, material accumulation and property like. I think probably, you know, Christ isn't like randomly using these words. So there probably is an element that these were somehow figuratively used of one's life possessions. But the fact that he's using them in these particular ways, I think is significant. [00:32:10] The Prodigal Son's Misconception [00:32:10] Tony Arsenal: And so the, the, the younger son here, and I don't even like calling this the prodigal sun parable because the word prodigal doesn't like the equivalent word in Greek doesn't appear in this passage. And prodigal doesn't mean like the lost in returned, like prodigal is a word that means like the one who spends lavishly, right? So we call him the prodigal son because he went and he squandered all of his stuff and he spent all of his money. So it doesn't even really describe the main feature or the main point of why this, this parable is here. It's just sort of like a random adjective that gets attached to it. But all of that aside, um. This parable starts off not just about wasting our property, like wasting our things, but it's a parable that even within the very embedded language of the parable itself is talking about squandering our very life, our very essence, our very existence is squandered and wasted as we depart from the Father. Right? And this is so like, um, it's almost so on the head, on the on the nose that it's almost a little like, really Jesus. Like this is, this is so like, slap you in the face kind of stuff. This is right outta like Romans, uh, Romans one, like they did not give thanks to God. They did not show gratitude to God or acknowledge him as God. This is what's happening in this parable. The son doesn't go to his father and say, father, I love you. I'm so happy to stay with you. I'm so happy to be here. He, he basically says like. Give me your very life essence, and I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go spend it on prostitutes. I'm gonna go waste your life, father, I'm gonna waste your life, your existence, your bias. I'm gonna go take that and I'm gonna squander it on reckless living. And I guess we don't know for sure. He, it doesn't say he spends it on prostitutes. That's something his brother says later and assumes he did. So I, I don't know that we do that. But either way, I'm gonna take what's yours, your very life, your very essence. And also that my life, my essence, the gift you've given me as my father, you've given me my life. In addition now to your life or a portion of your life. And I'm gonna go squander that on reckless living, right? Like, how much of a picture of sin is that, that we, we take what we've been given by God, our very life, our very essence, we owe him everything, and we squander that on sinful, reckless living. That that's just a slap in the face in the best way right out of the gate here.  [00:34:28] Jesse Schwamb: Yes, that, that's a great point because it's, it would be one thing to rebel over disobedience, another thing to use the very life essence that you've been given for destructive, self-destructive purposes. And then to use that very energy, which is not yours to begin with, but has been imbued in yours, external, all of these things. And then to use that very thing as the force of your rebellion. So it's double insult all the way around. I'm with you in the use of Greek there. Thank you. Locus Bio software. Not a sponsor of the podcast, but could be. And I think that's why sometimes in translations you get the word like a state because it's like the closest thing we can have to understanding that it's property earned through someone's life more or less. Yeah. And then is passed down, but as representative, not just of like, here's like 20 bucks of cash, but something that I spent all of me trying to earn and. And to your point, also emphasizing in the same way that this son felt it was owed him. So it's like really bad all around and I think we would really be doing ourselves a disservice if we didn't think that there's like a little bit of Paul washer saying in this, like I'm talking about you though. So like just be like, look at how disrespectful the sun is. Yeah. Haven't we all done this? To God and bringing up the idea of prodigal being, so that, that is like the amazing juxtaposition, isn't it? Like Prodigal is, is spent recklessly, parsimonious would be like to, to save recklessly, so to speak. And then you have the love the father demonstrates coming against all of that in the same way with like a totally different kind of force. So.  [00:36:02] The Famine and Realization [00:36:02] Jesse Schwamb: What I find interesting, and I think this is like set up in exactly what you said, is that when you get to verse 14 and this famine comes, it's showing us, I think that like providence exposes what Sin conceals.  [00:36:16] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:36:16] Jesse Schwamb: And want arrives. Not just because like the money ran out, but because again, like these idols, what he's replaced the father with, they don't satisfy. And repentance then often begins when God shows the emptiness of light apart life apart from him. That's like the affirmation being born out of the denial. And so I think that this also is evolving for us, this idea that God is going to use hardship, not as mere punishment, but as mercy that wakes us up and that the son here is being woken up, but not, of course, it's not as if he goes into the land, like you said, starts to spend, is like, whoa, hold on a second. This seems like a bad idea. It's not until all of that sin ever, like the worship of false things collapses under its own weight before it, which is like the precursor of the antecedent, I think, to this grand repentance or this waking up.  [00:37:05] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I also think it's, um.  [00:37:08] The Depths of Desperation [00:37:08] Tony Arsenal: A feature of this that I haven't reflected on too deeply, but is, is worth thinking about is the famine that's described here only occurs in this far country that he's in. [00:37:17] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.  [00:37:17] Tony Arsenal: Right. So even that's right. And this is like a multitude of foolish decisions. This is compounding foolish decisions that don't, don't make any sense. Like they don't really actually make any sense. Um. There's not a logic to this, this lost son's decision making. He takes the property. Okay. I guess maybe like you could be anxious to get your inheritance, but then like he takes it to a far country. Like there's no reason for him to do that. If at any point through this sort of insane process he had stopped short, he would not have been in the situation he was in. Yes. And that, I love that phrase, that providence, you know, reveals, I don't know exactly how you said it, but like providence reveals what our sin can bring to us. Like he first see sins against his father by sort of like demanding, demanding his inheritance early. Then he takes it and he leaves his country for no reason. He goes to this far country, then he spends everything and then the famine arises. Right? And the famine arises in this other country.  [00:38:13] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:38:13] Tony Arsenal: And that's, I think that is still again, like a picture of sin. Like we. We don't just, we don't just take what the father has and, and like spend it like that would be bad enough if we weren't grateful for what we have and what we've been given, and we just waste it. But on top of that, now we also have taken ourselves to a far country. Like we've gone away from the good, the good land of the Lord, as those who are not regenerate. We've gone away from the, the Lord into this far country. And it's not until we start to have this famine that we recognize what we've done. And again, this is, this is where I think we get a picture. There's so many theological, like points in this parable particular that it almost feels a little bit like a, like a. Parable that's intended to teach some systematic theology about for sure, the oral salus, which I think there's probably a lot of like biblical theology people that are ready to just crawl through the screen and strangle me for saying that. But this is such a glorious picture of, of regeneration too. [00:39:16] The Journey Back to the Father [00:39:16] Tony Arsenal: Like he comes to himself, there's nothing, there's nothing in the story that's like, oh, and the servant that he was, the other servant he was talking to mentioned that the famine, like there's nothing here that should prompt him to want to go back to his home, to think that his father could or would do anything about it, except that he comes to himself. He just comes to the realization that his father is a good man and is wise and has resources, and has takes care of his, of his servants on top of how he takes care of his sons. That is a picture of regeneration. There's no, yeah. Logical, like I'm thinking my way into it, he just one day realizes how much, how many of my father's servants have more than enough bread. Right. But I'm perishing here in this, this foolish other country with nothing. Right. I can't even, and the, the pods that the pigs ate, we can even, we can get into the pods a little bit here, but like. He wants to eat the pods. The pods that he's giving the pigs are not something that's even edible to humans. He's that destitute, that he's willing to eat these pods that are like, this is the leftover stuff that you throw to the pigs because no, no, nobody and nothing else can actually eat it. And that's the state he's in at the very bottom, in the very end of himself where he realizes my father is good and he loves me, and even if I can never be his son again, surely he'll take care of me. I mentioned it last week, like he wasn't going back thinking that this was gonna be a failing proposition. He went back because he knew or he, he was confident that his father was going to be able to take care of him and would accept him back. Right. Otherwise, what would be the point of going back? It wasn't like a, it wasn't like a, um, a mission he expected to fail at. He expected there to be a positive outcome or he wouldn't have done it. Like, it wouldn't make any sense to try that if there wasn't the hope of some sort of realistic option.  [00:41:09] Jesse Schwamb: And I think his confidence in that option, as you were saying, is in this way where he's constructed a transaction. Yeah. That he's gonna go back and say, if you'll just take me out as a slave, I know you have slaves, I will work for you. Right. Therefore, I feel confident that you'll accept me under those terms because I'll humble myself. And why would you not want to remunerate? Me for the work that I put forward. So you're right, like it's, it's strange that he basically comes to this, I think, sense that slavery exists in his life and who would he rather be the slave of,  [00:41:38] Tony Arsenal: right? [00:41:39] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. And so he says, listen, I'm gonna come to the father and give him this offer. And I'm very confident that given that offer and his behavior, what I know about how he treats his other slaves, that he will hire me back because there's work to do. And therefore, as a result of the work I put forward, he will take care of me. How much of like contemporary theology is being preached in that very way right now?  [00:41:58] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:41:59] Jesse Schwamb: And that's really like why the minimum wages of sin is all of this stuff. It's death. It's the consequences that we're speaking about here. By the way, the idea about famine is really interesting. I hadn't thought about that. It is interesting, again, that sin casts him out into this foreign place where the famine occurs. And that famine is the beginning of his realization of the true destruction, really how far he's devolved and degraded in his person and in his relationships and in his current states. And then of course, the Bible is replete with references and God moving through famine. And whereas in Genesis, we have a local famine, essentially casting Joseph brothers into a foreign land to be freed and to be saved.  [00:42:39] Tony Arsenal: Right.  [00:42:40] Jesse Schwamb: We have the exact opposite, which is really kind of interesting. Yeah. So we probably should talk about, you know, verse 15 and the, and the pig stuff. I mean, I think the obvious statement here is that. It would be scandalous, like a Jewish hero would certainly feel the shame of the pigs. They represent UNC cleanliness and social humiliation. I'm interested again, in, in this idea, like you've started us on that the freedom that this younger brother sought for becomes slavery. It's kind of bondage of the wills style. Yeah. Stuff. There's like an, an attentiveness in the story to the degrading reversal in his condition. And it is interesting that we get there finally, like the bottom of the pit maybe, or the barrel is like you said, the pods, which it's a bit like looking at Tide pods and being like, these are delicious. I wish I could just eat these. So I, I think your point isn't lost. Like it's not just that like he looked at something gross and was so his stomach was grumbling so much that he might find something in there that he would find palatable. It, it's more than that. It's like this is just total nonsense. It, this is Romans one. [00:43:45] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And these pods, like, these aren't, um, you know, I guess I, I don't know exactly what these are. I'm sure somebody has done all of the historical linguistic studies, but the Greek word is related to the, the word for keratin. So like the, the same, the same root word. And we have to be careful not to define a Greek word based on how we use it. That's a reverse etymology fallacy. Like dunamis doesn't mean dynamite, it's the other direction. But the Greek word is used in other places, in Greek literature to describe like the horns of rhinoc, like,  [00:44:21] Jesse Schwamb: right,  [00:44:21] Tony Arsenal: this, these aren't like. These aren't pea pods. I've heard this described like these are like little vegetable pods. No, this is like they're throwing pieces of bone to the pigs.  [00:44:31] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.  [00:44:31] Tony Arsenal: And the pigs, the pigs can manage it. And this is what this also like, reinforces how destitute and how deep the famine is. Like this isn't as though, like this is the normal food you give to pigs. Like usually you feed pigs, like you feed pigs, like the extra scraps from your table and like other kinds of like agricultural waste. These are, these are like chunks of bony keratin that are being fed to the pigs. So that's how terrible the famine is that not even the pigs are able to get food.  [00:45:00] Jesse Schwamb: Right?  [00:45:00] Tony Arsenal: They're given things that are basically inedible, but the pigs can manage it. And this, this kid is so hungry, he's so destitute that he says, man, I wish I could chew on those bony, those bony pods that I'm feeding them because that's how hungry and starved I am. You get the picture that this, um. This lost son is actually probably not just metaphorically on the brink of death, but he's in real risk of starvation, real risk of death that he, he can't even steal. He can't even steal from the pigs what they're eating, right? Like he can't even, he can't even glean off of what the pigs are eating just to stay alive. He, he's literally in a position where he has no hope of actually rescuing himself. The only thing that he can do, and this is the realization he has, the only thing he can do is throw himself back on the mercy of his father.  [00:45:50] Jesse Schwamb: That's  [00:45:50] Tony Arsenal: right. And, and hope, again, I think hope with confidence, but hope that his father will show mercy on him and his, his conception. I wanna be careful in this parable not to, I, I think there's something to what you're getting at or kinda what you're hinting at, that like his conception of mercy is. Not the full picture of the gospel. Yes. His conception of mercy is that he's going to be able to go and work and be rewarded for his laborers in a way that he can survive. And the gospel is so much broader and so much bigger than that. But at the same time, I think it's, it's actually also a confident hope, a faith-filled hope that his father's mercy is going to rescue him, is going to save him. So it is this picture of what we do. And, and I think, I think sometimes, um, I want to be careful how we say this 'cause I don't wanna, I don't want to get a bunch of angry emails and letters, but I think sometimes we, um, we make salvation too much of a theology test. And there's probably people that are like, Tony, did you really just say that? I think there are people who trust in the Lord Jesus thinking that that means something akin to what. This lost son thinks  [00:47:03] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:47:03] Tony Arsenal: Exactly. They trust. They trust that Jesus is merciful and, and I'm not necessarily thinking of Roman Catholics. I'm not thinking of Roman Catholic theology for sure. I do think there are a fair number of Roman Catholic individuals that fall into this category where they trust Jesus to save them. Right. They just don't fully understand exactly what Jesus means, what that means for them to be saved. They think that Christ is a savior who will provide a way for them to be saved by His grace that requires them to contribute something to it. Arminians fall into that category. Right. I actually think, and I, I think there's gonna be if, if there's, if the one Lutheran who listens to our show hears this is gonna be mad, but I actually think Lutheran theology kind of falls into this in a sort of negative fashion in that you have to not resist grace in order to be saved. So I think. That is something we should grapple with is that there are people who fit into that category, but this is still a faith-filled, hope-filled confidence in the mercy of the father in this parable that he's even willing to make the journey back. Right? This isn't like right, he walks from his house down the street or from the other side of town. He's wandering back from a far country. He, he went into a far country. He has to come back from a far country. And yes, the father greets him from afar and sees him from afar. But we're not talking about like from a far country. Like he sees him coming down the road, it, he has to travel to him, and this is a picture of. The hope and the faith that we have to have to return to God, to throw ourselves on the mercy of Christ, trusting that he has our best interest in mind, that he has died for us, and that it is for us. Right? There's the, the knowledge of what Christ has done, and then there's the ascent to the truth of it. And then the final part of faith is the confidence or the, the faith in trust in the fact that, that is for me as well, right? This, this is a picture of that right here. I, I don't know why we thought we were gonna get through the whole thing in one week, Jesse. We're gonna spend at least two weeks on this lost son, or at least part of the second week here. But he, this is, this is also like a picture of faith. This is why I say this as like a systematic theology lesson on soteriology all packed into here. Because not only do we have, like what is repentance and or what does regeneration look like? It's coming to himself. What does repentance look like? Yes. Turning from your sins and coming back. What is, what is the orde solis? Well, there's a whole, there's a whole thing in here. What is the definition of faith? Well, he knows that his father is good. That he has more than enough food for his servants. He, uh, is willing to acknowledge the truth of that, and he's willing to trust in that, in that he's willing to walk back from a far country in order to lay claim to that or to try to lay claim to it. That's a picture of faith right there, just in all three parts. Right. It's, it's really quite amazing how, how in depth this parable goes on this stuff,  [00:49:54] Jesse Schwamb: right? Yeah. It's wild to note that as he comes to himself, he's still working. Yeah, in that far off country. So this shows again that sin is this cruel master. He hits the bottom, he wants the animal food, but he's still unfed. And this is all the while again, he has some kind of arrangement where he is trying to work his way out of that and he sees the desperation. And so I'm with you, you know, before coming to Christ, A person really, I think must come to themselves and that really is like to say they need to have a sober self-knowledge under God, right? Yeah. Which is, as we said before, like all this talk about, well Jesus is the answer. We better be sure what the question is. And that question is who am I before God? And this is why, of course, you have to have the law and gospel, or you have to have the the bad news before you can have the good news. And really, there's all of this bad news that's delivered here and this repentance, like you've been saying, it's not just mere regret, we know this. It's a turning, it's a reorientation back to the father. He says, I will arise and go to my father. So yeah, also it demonstrates to me. When we do come to ourselves when there's a sober self-knowledge under God, there is a true working out of salvation that necessarily requires and results in some kind of action, right? And that is the mortification of sin that is moving toward God again, under his power and direction of the Holy Spirit. But still there is some kind of movement on our part. And so that I think is what leads then in verse 19, as you're saying, the son and I do love this 'cause I think this goes right back to like the true hope that he has, even though it might be slightly corrupted or slightly wa

Amy Leneker is a recovering workaholic turned joy strategist—and her message couldn't be more timely. In this episode, Amy joins John to share insights from her upcoming book Cheers to Monday, a science-backed guide to breaking the cycle of burnout and embracing joy as a leadership strategy.A former C-suite executive and advisor to Fortune 100 companies, Amy opens up about hitting rock bottom—not once, but twice—and what it taught her about stress, success, and what really matters. She introduces her “Un-Stressing Method”: See, Sort, Solve, Celebrate—a practical and empowering framework that helps leaders manage their own stress while reducing the stress they place on others.They also dive into concepts like the Stockdale Paradox, the difference between happiness and joy, and why emotional honesty is the new leadership superpower. This episode is packed with actionable tools, honest reflection, and a refreshing take on what it really means to thrive in today's high-pressure world.Are you interested in leveling up your sales skills and staying relevant in today's AI-driven landscape? Visit www.jbarrows.com and let's Make It Happen together!Connect with John on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbarrows/Connect with John on IG: https://www.instagram.com/johnmbarrows/Check out John's Membership: https://go.jbarrows.com/pages/individual-membership?ref=3edab1Join John's Newsletter: https://www.jbarrows.com/newsletterConnect with Amy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amylenekerCheck out Amy's Website: https://www.amyleneker.com/Connect with Amy on IG: https://www.instagram.com/amy.leneker/Get Amy's Book "Cheers to Monday" Here: https://www.amazon.com/Cheers-Monday-Surprisingly-Simple-Method/dp/1394388802Check out Amy's Podcast "Less Stress, More Joy" Here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/less-stress-more-joy-with-amy-leneker/id1864772376

Ste is here with today's Redmen Bitesize podcast discussing the mixed injury news ahead of Liverpool v Newcastle and a lot more, including Jurgen Klopp's upcoming Anfield return! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Gene and Simon Zijlemans join Brad to discuss Resident Evil Requiem, Final Fantasy VII on Switch 2, Big Hops, and more! Please keep in mind that our timestamps are approximate, and will often be slightly off due to dynamic ad placement. 0:00:00 - Intro0:19:30 - Resident Evil Requiem Preview0:49:52 - Final Fantasy VII Remake (Switch 2)1:13:20 - Big Hops1:21:39 - Sort it Out/ Keep it Up1:47:09 - Game recommendation1:48:40 - 2XKO2:10:40 - Closing Question To watch the podcast on YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/LastStandMediaYouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/SummonSign⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ If you like the show, telling a friend about it would be amazing! You can text, email, Tweet, or send this link to a friend: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/SummonSign⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How to Use AI for B2B Storytelling Without Losing Your Brand So many B2B companies and marketing teams waste budget on generic content that fails to resonate or support core business goals. In an era where AI-generated is everywhere, smaller B2B brands often struggle to maintain a unique identity while competing against larger firms with massive content engines. The key to staying relevant lies in a B2B brand’s ability to be authentic, human-centric, and strategically consistent despite the pressure to automate everything. So how can B2B brands effectively integrate AI into their marketing workflows without losing their unique voice and brand integrity? That's why we're talking to Nick Usborne (Founder, Story Aligned), who shared his expertise on leveraging AI through the lens of strategic storytelling. During our conversation, Nick discussed the critical distinction between simple narrative and a brand’s unique story, highlighting a significant gap where only 7% of top AI prompt libraries actually focus on storytelling. He shared actionable advice on building a “story vault,” training staff to avoid “brand drift,” and enforcing consistent AI usage to maintain the trust of the audience. Nick also underscored the importance of keeping human elements at the forefront of content creation to prevent AI from feeling overly mechanical, and advocated for a balanced approach that ensures scalable growth without sacrificing a brand's authenticity. https://youtu.be/dtgvg2-XXoU Topics discussed in episode: [02:53] The “Why” Behind AI Adoption: Why companies must embrace AI not just for efficiency, but to avoid being left behind by competitors who are already scaling their reach.  [04:10] The “Moat” of Storytelling: Why narrative and voice can be easily copied by AI, but your brand's unique “lived story” is the only defensible moat you have.  [11:27] Pitfalls of Inconsistent AI Use: The dangers of “shadow AI” use by employees (e.g., Using personal accounts vs. company custom GPTs) and how it leads to brand drift.  [16:46] The Human Element vs. AI: Nick explains why AI can describe the beach but can't “feel the sand between its toes,” and why human “messiness” is key to connection.  [24:26] Building a Story Vault: Nick provides a practical framework for formalizing your brand's folklore—from founder stories to customer service wins—so they can be systematically used in AI content.  [28:17] Actionable Steps for Marketers: Three immediate steps to take: build your story vault, interview key stakeholders (founders, early employees), and analyze customer service transcripts for sentiment.  [30:11] The Problem with “Killer Prompt” Libraries: Why copying “top 20 prompt” lists is a strategic mistake that leads to generic, non-differentiated content. Companies and links mentioned: Nick Usborne on LinkedIn  Story Aligned  Transcript Nick Usborne, Christian Klepp Nick Usborne  00:00 AI can do a wonderful job in many ways, but it’s never walked down the beach and felt the sand between its toes. It’s read about it. It’s never eaten ice cream. It’s read about that, but it’s never felt it. So that’s what I mean by lived experience. I think that content and stories that truly resonate with people you use those kind of touch points the the deeply human side of being alive. And like, say, I think AI can get close when you prompt it really well, but also, there’s a messiness that makes us recognize one another, the little mistakes we make. That’s what makes us human. We are messy. AI, it’s not very good at being messy. You can ask it to be messy, and it’ll try to figure that out, but it’s really not the same. And like I say, I think people are very sensitive to this kind of nuance. Christian Klepp  00:51 When brands rely on the same AI tools and prompts, they start to sound like everyone else. That loss of voice can hurt trust and lead to something called Brand drift. So how can B2B Marketing teams scale content with AI while staying true to their story? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to Nick Usborne, who will be answering this question. He’s the Founder of Story Aligned, a training program for Marketing teams that want to scale content using AI while protecting the integrity of their brand story and voice. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is. Mr. Nick Usborne, welcome to the show, sir.  Nick Usborne  01:32 Thank you very much. Thank you Christian. Thank you for having me.  Christian Klepp  01:35 Pleasure to have you on the show. Nick, you know we had such a fantastic pre interview call. It was a bit of a you did drop a few hints and clues about what was to come, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation. I’m going to keep the audience in suspense a little while longer as I move us into the first question. So off we go.  Nick Usborne  01:55 Okay. Christian Klepp  01:56 All right, so, Nick, you’re on a mission to equip Marketing teams to scale AI powered content while staying aligned with their organization, story and voice. So for this conversation, let’s focus on the topic of how to use AI for B2B content without losing trust. And it is at the time of the recording, the end of 2025 and of course, we’re going to talk about AI, but we’re going to zoom in on something specific as it pertains to B2B content and a little bit of branding in there as well. But I wanted to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So the first question is, why do you believe it’s so important for brands and their Marketing teams to embrace AI so that they can scale? And the second question is, why does this approach require the right prompts and guardrails? I think that’s one thing that you mentioned in our previous conversation, the whole the whole piece about prompts and guardrails. Nick Usborne  02:53 Well, the first question, why do companies need to embrace AI? And the ridiculous answer to that. It’s not a good answer, but it’s true is that because everyone else is, because your competitors are, and they will create content at scale while you are not, and they will achieve reach that you can’t achieve without AI. And in fact, if they do it well, their content, their new content, will be very good, content deeply researched beyond perhaps what you can do. So it’s like everything within AI right now, like, like, Why? Why do all the companies like open AI and Google and Meta, why they all racing? Because if they don’t, someone else will get there first. And it’s, I’m not saying it’s a great reason, but I think it is the fundamental reason for companies to embrace AI, is that you will be left behind if you don’t. This is a transformational moment, and as much as we’d like to have choice, I think in this matter, we don’t have a lot of choice. So that’s my answer to that question. Repeat the second question for me. Christian Klepp  04:00 Absolutely, absolutely so based on, based on that, like, why does this approach require the right prompts and guardrails? Nick Usborne  04:10 As part of my business, I’m constantly researching this, and in particular, I’m researching the prompts people do so when say, could be writers coders, but in our world. Let’s say writers, principally, or marketers, are using AI. They’re using prompts, and they’re generally prompting about two things. One is narrative, like, what should we say? Or, you know, please write us a blog post about x. So that’s the that’s the topic, that’s the narrative. And then they’ll put in something say, oh, please do it in a voice that is authoritative and yet accessible. All right, so now that’s a voice. What they haven’t mentioned is what I think is the foundational layer, which is, which is story. And that’s important, because story is the only thing that is uniquely yours, if you have an narrative, if you, if you have voice, if you talk about something in a particular way, I can copy that with AI. I can copy it at scale. I can, I can look at the transcripts of Christian podcasts, and I can say, oh, I want to do one in exactly. Tell her the same topic. I can, you know, so when you focus on narrative, on what you write about in voice. I can copy it. There’s no moat. The only moat you have is with story, because every company’s story is unique. We can look at origin stories, foundation stories, we can look at customer stories through case studies, things like that. Those are always unique. No one else has Apple’s origin story. No one else has virgin Atlantic’s Founder’s story, etc. But we did some research recently. Actually, we did some research months ago, and I reconfirmed it earlier this week. I ran it. I ran it all again to look at the data. If you look at the top 20 prompt libraries that you know the big, trustworthy companies and organizations that put out prompt libraries for companies. If you look at the top 20 libraries and the 1000s and 1000s of prompts within there, 76% of those prompts are about the narrative. What to say? 17 are about voice. How do you sound? Only 7% relate to story. So this, to my mind, is where we have a problem. We have a disconnect. Everyone is going crazy, prompting for narrative and story, both of which have 0, zero mode, anyone can copy them at scale. And only 7% this very small percentage, are actually focusing on the one thing that is uniquely theirs and cannot be copied or challenged. So that when you say, when you, when you say I’m on a mission, that’s the mission for me to say, Hey guys, wake up. You’re You’re prompting the wrong things in the wrong way. Let’s like, go back and look at story Christian Klepp  07:12 Absolutely, absolutely. It almost sounds like an oxymoron to us to a certain degree, because you’re saying scaling B2B content using AI without losing trust. Because, you know, the narrative that I keep seeing on social media, particularly LinkedIn, is that if people are using AI, there is a bit of a trust factor there. But I think it’s to your point and correct me if I’m wrong, it’s being able to embrace AI and you leveraging it the right way, so it’s not, it’s not, it’s not to replace, it’s not to replace the writers, right, or to replace the Marketers, I hope not. Nick Usborne  07:50 It may replace some. But, yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, you’re right, and the keyword you mentioned there is trust. I think, I think trust is going to be the most valuable commodity that a company can have in the months and years to come, because people don’t actually don’t if we’re talking about brand. So we’re trying to protect brand with story, right? And brand is something that a lot of companies have spent millions of dollars building and protecting over years or decades and well, one of the things let me come back to trust in a moment. But if I’m looking at brand, and I’m looking at all the stuff goes out there, it either builds brand or it burns brand. And if you burn brand, you lose trust. So if you’re going out with a whole bunch of content that sounds like everyone else is that it’s kind of meh. It’s ordinary. It’s in the middle, which is what AI is really good at. Without the right prompting, it will give you kind of in the middle, mediocre output. So you got to be much better at prompting than just like a, I don’t know, being careless about it, or taking a shortcut, shortcuts, or being lazy about it, because then you get brand drift, and all of a sudden the brand doesn’t sound quite right. And when that happens, you lose trust. And when you lose trust, you lose revenue. I mean, you really do. And people are getting very sensitive to brand of brand trust we saw recently. Was it tracker barrel tried to just change its logo. People freaked out. People freaked out.  Christian Klepp  09:27 It was an awful rebrand, but, yes.  Nick Usborne  09:30 Yeah, but it wasn’t. These weren’t. These weren’t. Saying is, I don’t think the design is up to snuff. It’s like, don’t mess with my tracker barrel. We actually feel very strongly about the brands. Talk to people who are absolute fans of Apple. Doesn’t matter that it costs twice as much, perhaps as not quite as good. It’s Apple. It’s my brand. Don’t mess with my brand. So we’re very sensitive to our loyalty to brands. And in fact, in some sense, it’s brand define us like a football team, a baseball team, in part, we can be defined by the brands that we support, local, Pepsi. You know, it’s like everywhere. So when a company uses AI carelessly at scale and all of a sudden that blog post, it kind of sounds like them, but something’s a tiny bit off. And then that LinkedIn update. Again, yeah, it’s them, but again, it’s, did I say is that the same as they were six months ago? You get the you get these little these little things that sound off, and now you get brand drift. And now you get people feeling uneasy, and the public are sometimes we think we can just make the public believe whatever we want them to believe, or companies to believe whatever we want them to believe, but actually, individuals, in their home lives and in their business lives are very, very sensitive to brand and they’re very, very sensitive to voice and what they hear, and if it’s off, they really don’t like it, and that does translate into loss of trust, and that does directly translate into loss of revenue.  Christian Klepp  11:07 Absolutely. I’m going to move us on to the next set of questions, particularly that one pertaining to key pitfalls that Marketers need to avoid when they’re trying to scale their B2B content using AI without losing trust. So what are some of these key pitfalls they should avoid, and what should they be doing instead? Nick Usborne  11:27 What I’m hearing from inside a number of companies is that there is an inconsistency in how people are using AI and even when systems are in place, that not everyone follows the system. So it’s early days. It is. These are messy times for, you know, working with AI within companies. So I think it’s really important that companies do have some frameworks in place, that people within the organization are using the same tools in the same way, and that they are encouraged to be consistent in what they do. So I’ve heard stories of where companies are set up, you know, they’re using Copilot, or whatever they use, and then some of the manager will walk by someone’s desk, and they’re actually, actually, they’re using Claude on their phone. That person like phone, and it’s like, well, yeah, but no, this is now, you know, you have no control. You also have to get people to do what they ask. I was talking to a Founder the other day. She has a PR (Public Relations) company, plenty of clients, and she’s smart. She’s created custom GPTs for each client. So each custom GPT is trained on with with a kind of database of information on that client and the content, so that you know when you when you ask it to do something else, it’s already has the context and the voice instructions and everything, and you can and it’s great, you get this consistency. But she says, what’s happening is some of her employees come in in the morning, they start work on client X, and they’re using that custom GPT. Then they move on to client Y, but they keep using the original custom GPT and not switching out. So the management has put in the structure in place to be consistent and to output the best, you know, the best content, but the employees are not always playing game, you know, going along with that. So so I do think we’re in a messy period now where companies are not entirely sure how to apply this, how to structure it, what kind of frameworks and guidance to put in place. What guardrails to put in place? Like? Again, I’ve heard horror stories of people grabbing content that should not be shared and putting it into a large language model and then turning that into customer facing or public facing content.  Christian Klepp  13:57 Oh, plagiarism.  Nick Usborne  14:04 So yeah, it is messy. So what I would say is, before you even try to make the best of the use of AI that you do, need to put systems and frameworks in place and educate your staff. So if you want your staff to use AI effectively give them access to training. Don’t just throw them at a tool and say, go for it, because they won’t know what to do with it, or they’ll be able to create stuff, but they won’t be able to create good stuff. So invest in the systems, invest in the frameworks and instructions, and invest in training for the people who are going to be using the tools.  Christian Klepp  14:46 Definitely some relevant points. I wanted to go back to something you said, though, because I think it’s really important. It’s certainly one thing to have the prompts and the guardrails in place and some kind of like, framework and structures. But to your earlier point, how do you enforce that? And I think you gave a really good example about like, if you have a custom GPT, and then they resort to like, using. Um Claude on their personal accounts, and then it’s a little bit like the wild west out there, isn’t it? Nick Usborne  15:06 It is, it is, and it’s and it’s, how do you enforce it? Well, that’s going to be a company by company decision. Like, like the Founder with the PR of the PR company, when she was telling me about how her employees just weren’t doing what they were asked. I was like, part of you is thinking about, why haven’t you kind of cracked down on this? But again, it depends on the company and what options you have when it comes to enforcing stuff like this. But I do think you need to, because then if we circle right back, if you have people who are untrained, and that’s the company’s responsibility to train their employees. If you have people who are untrained and they’re using these tools inconsistently, that is when you far more likely then to see errors for, you know, unforced errors like publishing stuff that you shouldn’t but you’re also going to see more brand drift, because you’re going to get this inconsistency between output and that is a disaster. Like I say, companies have sometimes spent, in a decade, several years in establishing and building a trustworthy brand. And people are very unforgiving. You can, you can lose all that goodwill very, very quickly. So, yeah, training frameworks make sure people are, you know, working within those boundaries, but as a company, it’s your responsibility to help make that happen. Christian Klepp  16:29 Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You kind of brought this up already, but you mentioned that AI can help to scale content, but it can’t replicate your lived story, so please explain what you meant by that, and provide an example. If you can, Nick Usborne  16:46 AI can do a wonderful job in many ways, but you know, it’s never walked down the beach and felt the sand between its toes. It’s read about it. It’s never eaten ice cream. It’s read about that, but it’s never felt it. So that’s what I mean by lived experience. So I think that content and stories that truly resonate with people, you use those kind of touch points, the deeply human side of being alive and like say, I think AI can get close when you prompt it really well, but also there’s a messiness that makes us recognize one another, the little mistakes we make, that’s what makes us human. We are messy, and it’s not very good at being messy. You can ask it to be messy, and it’ll try to figure that out, but it’s really not the same. And like I say, I think people are very sensitive to this kind of nuance and the lived story. It’s the it’s the weird stuff. I think that resonates. So I’ve spent quite a bit of my career doing copywriting for companies, and for a long period, I was doing some freelance, a lot of freelance copywriting. So this is just a little side note, a little side story for you. I used to live on a hobby farm. We had some sheep and pigs and chickens and all that good stuff, the good life. And also had freelance customers. And I went in, and I was and I went, you know, you go out, you feed the animals, you come in, I sit down to work, and my client said, this is just on the phone. This is even before the internet. Client said, Hey, you’re late. I was just out farming the pig and feeding the pigs. And the guy says, what? And this, I hadn’t realized. I never told him that I lived on a farm. He thought somewhere. So anyway, we talked a little bit about the pigs, then we get to work. So the project we’re working on worked out really well, and it won an award. So we fly off to your hometown, Toronto, for the awards ceremony, direct marketing awards ceremony, and he stands up and he says, Thank you very much. Blah, blah, blah. And special thanks to Nick Usborne, the pig farming copywriter. And I’m like, I’m like, in the audience, and I’m thinking, oh, please no. This guy is like, rebranding me constantly in front of all my peers, all my potential clients for next year. Big drama turns out so, so that that’s messy, all right? AI wouldn’t do that, you wouldn’t imagine that it wouldn’t do that. That’s a deeply human moment of my humiliation and him laughing, and everyone slapping me on the back and laughing and asking about my pigs. Turns out, over the next 12 months, I got a few phone calls out of the blue. And I say, Hello, Nick Usborne. I said, Oh, is that Nick Usborne? The cover of James Barber. And I say, why? Yes. And so I actually got work out of that, because it was such a distinct difference from every other copywriter out there. I was the only copywriter who had pigs. So that was just a fun story, but it also speaks to the difference between humans and AI, and it’s a live that’s a lived experience, and it’s a lived anecdote, and I tell the story, and it’s a true story that is really important, I think so, even when we use AI, even when we use it at its best, and it can be really good when you use it well, I think everyone should keep leave space for the human in the loop, as they say, keep that human element in there, big for those stories. So I so I encourage companies to create what I call like a story vault. So there’s the obvious stories, like the Founder story, the origin story, the six original success story, also put in the little quirky stories, like that one I just described, and and make that part of your process. And also go, you know, if you’re creating something with AI and it’s a big project, take the time to go and interview someone, talk to someone, get a human story, put it in just because you’re using AI, doesn’t mean to say that everything you create has to be 100% AI, you can, you can? I do this all the time. I look for it a draft with AI, then I’d go back in and I’ll rewrite the beginning with an anecdote, like the small s story, not a big dramatic story, just a little story. And what it does then is that then connects it with us, because as people, we recognize stories. Story is profound to all of us. I think in every country in the world, parents read their children bedtime stories. It’s something we share in common. It’s how we communicate, and it’s how we recognize our humanity in a sense of like, if you tell me a story, you connect with me, and vice versa. So that’s why I think stories are so important in this world of AI, because if you just go AI, it can get a little cold, and sometimes, as a reader, you don’t quite understand what’s happening and why, but you kind of feel it. There’s an absence. There’s something missing, and that what’s what you feeling is missing is that human touch, that human element, Christian Klepp  21:59 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, there’s like, there’s like, telltale signs, right? Like em dash being one of them,  Nick Usborne  22:06 em dash Christian Klepp  22:07 Yes, or Yeah. Or it tends to, like, regurgitate the same type of war. It’s like, I find it loves using the word landscape or navigate, you know, things of that nature, right?  Nick Usborne  22:20 Yeah.  Christian Klepp  22:21 Or uses these funny like, you know, the colon or for, for, for titles of episodes, for examples. Nick Usborne  22:30 In titles, even when I give it clear instructions, do not use them. So sometimes, when I create content like that is, I’ll create it in with one model like say, GPT5, and I’ll take it over to flawed, and I’ll say, hey, please edit and clean this up for me, and remove any, you know, repetition or whatever. And sometimes it comes back say, hey, looks pretty clean, pretty good. Other times it’ll change stuff. And then, of course, always I will, you know, I will review. And that’s the other thing that the companies need to think about. Is that, at the moment, content generation at scale within companies, it is a bit like a conveyor belt in a factory of all these boxes flying off the end into the FedEx back of the FedEx van, and without, without any kind of quality control, which, which is actually what you do have with income within you know, if you’re manufacturing, and you do have quality control, and you pick out every 20th item or whatever to make sure that it’s good, a lot of that isn’t happening, that isn’t happening with a lot of people using AI is people don’t even see it. It’s fully automated, like, like a week’s worth of social media is automated, or a month’s work worth, and no one, no human, has read it or reviewed it. It’s just flying out automatically. And that is where at some point you’re inevitably going to have a problem. And it may not be a big problem, it may be lots and lots of small problems, lots of lots of things sounding not quite right, and then all of a sudden, when you’ve got enough little things not sounding right, then you start getting a medium sized problem. Christian Klepp  24:06 Yeah, yeah. No, exactly, exactly. Okay. Now, you talked about it a little bit in the beginning, but talk to us about some of these, these frameworks and these processes that B2B companies can use to help them, you know, organize themselves and reap those benefits of AI without losing trust. Like, what are some of these processes and frameworks? Nick Usborne  24:26 I do some training, and I have done a few rubrics where people can kind of use those to formalize the process. But I think if we talk about story, and I think I already mentioned the idea of each company having a story vault, so be formal and deliberate about it. Everyone can chat about their company’s stories, but if I say to you, hey, is there a folder? Can I can I get a Google folder and find a compilation of all of these stories? And have you graded those stories in terms of how strong and relevant? And they are, and how engaging they might be, or how evocative they might be, and the answer is almost always no, the story is around. But there’s no story vault, and there’s no rubric in place to grade those stories and decide which might be the most appropriate points at which to share those stories. So it’s that, it’s that formalizing the process, and I don’t like being 100% rules based, but I think in the AI world right now, where we are in that kind of messy middle period, I think it’s really important to have some systems in place so that we do have a consistent output, so that when you so that your brand doesn’t suffer from brand drift, and that you don’t make some significant missteps along the way. So somebody within the organization needs to be responsible for this. Maybe it’s the Chief AI Officer, if you have one, or otherwise, somebody in Marketing. So yeah, help people with training, but also help them by giving them some framework, some rubrics and some just a system like, you know, hey, picked up a story from customer service, put it in the story vault, categorize it. Customer service in the story vault says someone else can come back and find it. So it’s not just word of mouth. It’s not accidental. There’s a place where people can go to and then you’re going to do the same with narrative, the things we say. And you have another vault, as it were, and another rubric to to assess voice, how we say it. So it’s just this formalization of the process, and also trying to make sure that people use these systems as you put them in place. So somebody’s got to be walking along behind, behind and sort of, and again, it’s like, I guess, like early days of anything. Not every, not everyone will love the process. Not everyone loves using AI. But it’ll come. It’ll come. People will get in their heart better, not only using AI, but doing it well and following these processes. Christian Klepp  27:02 Okay, fantastic, fantastic. Let me just quickly recap, because I was writing this down. So obviously, having a story vault, grading them if you can, if possible, having systems and frameworks in place, training the team and getting them to familiarize themselves with the systems having a vault for narrative and voice, I think was the other piece. And finally, using, using the systems, once you have them, not letting them collect dust, as it were, right? Nick Usborne  27:32 Like and it is, I get it right now. I get it. It’s hard for a lot of companies, because I think using AI has been very kind of mixed. Some companies have dived straight in. Others are resistant, particularly companies that have compliance issues, financial, medical stuff like that. They’re being very careful, very cautious, and for very good reason. So the rate of adoption is very uneven at the moment, Christian Klepp  28:01 Absolutely, absolutely, all right. Nick you’ve given us plenty here, right? But if we’re going to talk about actionable tips, like something that somebody who’s listening to this conversation that they can take action on right after listening to this interview, what are like some of the top three things you would advise them to do? Nick Usborne  28:17 Well, I guess first is just we’ve talked quite a bit about the story, the story of collecting stories. Just do that because, like I say, I think story is your is your superpower, because it is the only place where you have a moat you don’t in what you say and how you say it. Anyone can copy you, and I can automate copying you through AI as well, but I cannot steal your story, because it’s just not true if, if it’s not my story. So I’d always start there and again, start, start that. Build the vault, select the story and formalize that process. Interview the Founders, if you can, interview early employees, even if they’re retired, interview the first three clients, if you can access them, interview customer service. So often overlooked, customer service in one way or another, so long as that’s not all automated, if there’s still humans in that loop, then have conversations with them. And you can, you can, you can, get transcripts, customer service transcripts, and feed them into AI and say, hey, please analyze and summarize this. What are, what are the most powerful messages we can get from our customer service? Sort of stream of content? Do? Do a sentiment analysis? What are people upset about? What are people happy about? So, yeah, story, I think, is like, I say, it will be your motive, it will be your savior. So first start to formalize that process of getting story and then making sure that it finds a place, somewhere in your automation of, you know, AI generated content, Christian Klepp  29:58 Fantastic, fantastic stuff. Okay, soapbox time. What is the status quo in your area of expertise that you passionately disagree with, and why? Nick Usborne  30:11 I guess again, I’m just going to overlapping. I don’t know what a status quo, but the thing that I passionately disagree with is is every time you see most or a social media title that says top 20 killer, unbeatable prompts.  Christian Klepp  30:31 Oh, yeah. Nick Usborne  30:32 No, no, no, absolutely, just, just no for two reasons. One is that they’re going to be generic. They’re not going to apply to your company in particular, they’ll be generic, and just because they work for someone else does not mean they’re going to work for you. And like I say, we did, I’ve done research on those prompt libraries, and only 7% of them even touch on story. So if I’m writing stories, the most important thing almost all of those prompt libraries are missing out on that. They’re just focusing on narrative and voice and ignoring stories. So not good and and, yeah, so, so that is, I don’t know whether the status quo, but it’s something I keep seeing, and it irritates me when I get it. I understand why they’re doing it, but not helpful for your company. Christian Klepp  31:18 Yeah, you and me both. I mean, those are the those are the pulse they attempt to ignore immediately. I mean, I just skim through it and see the prompts, and I’m like, Nah, but I think it’s human nature too, isn’t it? Like everybody wants to chase the next hack. They want to find that the you know, the shortcut, like the quickest route to get something done. And I get that, but it sometimes does more harm than good. Nick Usborne  31:43 Easy button, but also to be fair and to be a little bit more generous. This is early days, and so people are looking for help. And if it says top 20, this is, oh my goodness, thank you. I’ll take that now. Over time, that’ll change, and people will become a little more sophisticated, I think, but like us, like you. You know, I get it. I understand why those those posts and titles are attractive, and that’s why people create them. But we can do better. We can do better Christian Klepp  32:12 Absolutely, absolutely we can, and we will, hopefully, all right, here comes the bonus question. I’ve been thinking about this one, but Nick Usborne  32:23 I feel strangely nervous. I feel nervous, but it’s a bonus question. Christian Klepp  32:30 Just breathe. Just breathe. I mean, clearly from this conversation, you know, writing is in your blood, right? It’s something that you are passionate about, but it’s also something you’ve done professionally for a long time, I suppose. The bonus question is, if you had an opportunity to meet your favorite writer or author, living or dead, who would it be, and what would you talk about?  Nick Usborne  32:55 One of the people, I really admire, and I’ve already spoken to him, is David Abbott. So David Abbott is a copywriter from from England, and he had an agency called Abbot Mead Vickers, and he was an amazing writer. So I’ve already met him. Who I haven’t met I would like to re write to meet is Susie Henry. She was the copywriter behind a series of advertisements in the UK for an insurance company, and she is just a delightful writer, so I told you, well, no, I hadn’t told you. Maybe I will tell you I’m like, when I started out copywriting, it was at the tail end of the Mad Men period, and creatives were the Kings and Queens, and copywriting was such a craft, it was something to be absolutely proud of, like we’d go through so many drafts, and it was, I was, you know, I was, I was a craftsman, learning from other craftsmen. And David, ever I met, he was in a fantastic writer, just written Susie Henry so good, very, very conversational writer, which was very unusual for that time. So I’d like to meet and talk with her, and I still can’t remember the fiction writer. He’s science fiction writer. I completely lost blank on his name, and I’ve actually met him once briefly, but I’d like to get back to him and chat, but I can’t, because he’s he’s since passed. Christian Klepp  34:19 Oh, I see, I see, I see. All right, well, that’s quite the list of people, but, um, but yeah. No, fantastic. No. Nick, thank you so much for coming on the show and for sharing your experience and expertise with the listeners. And please quick introduction to yourself and how people can get in touch with you. Nick Usborne  34:37 All right. Hi. My name is Nick Usborne, so my business build Story Aligned. So storyaligned.com and what we do there is pretty much, what I’ve talked about today is we train teams within companies to look at story, narrative and voice with a lot of emphasis on story, because that’s where the note is, so if you get a Story Aligned, you’ll find we have a white paper you can download. We have a blog that you can read, the description of the training. So yeah, if this interests you, if you find this an interesting topic, there’s plenty to do when you get there. So Story Aligned, A, L, I, G, N, E, D, yeah. Story Aligned. Christian Klepp  35:21 Fantastic, fantastic. And we’ll be sure to pop that into the show notes so that it’ll be easy for everyone to access. But once again, Nick, thank you.  Nick Usborne  35:28 Sorry, one last thing, if you want to please opening myself up, if you want to just talk to me directly, you can write to me at nick@storyaligned.com. Christian Klepp  35:38 Perfect, perfect. Nick, once again, thanks so much for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon. Nick Usborne  35:44 Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. It’s been a pleasure. Christian Klepp  35:47 Thank you. Bye for now. You.

Concussion Talk Podcast is back! Sort of. The podcast now called Chronically, but neither the website, nor the YouTube channel will change. The new co-host, but long time contributor to Concussion Talk, is Lauren Ziaks @laurenziaks !We hope you listen and learn from this first episode of Chronically where we re-introduce ourselves and delve into the world of #dysautonomiaFollow the new RSS feed! https://feeds.acast.com/public/shows/6977989c92528306996da327 Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/concussion-talk-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, Jason Schroeder breaks down 3S and 5S. Sort, Set in Order, Sweep/Shine, Standardize, and Sustain and explains why cleanliness is the foundation of safety, quality, and flow. He shares why many teams fail by treating 5S as cosmetic instead of cultural, and how stability and standardization make problems visible so they can actually be solved. Jason also explains why some teams start with 3S first, and how daily cleanliness habits unlock continuous improvement and respect for people. What you'll learn in this episode: The difference between 3S and 5S and when each should be used. Why cleanliness is a prerequisite for safety and quality not an afterthought. How standardization makes problems visible instead of hiding them. Why clean environments change human behavior and enable total participation. How daily 3S/5S habits lead directly to Kaizen and continuous improvement. If cleanliness reveals the truth about your system, what is your current environment telling you right now? If you like the Elevate Construction podcast, please subscribe for free and you'll never miss an episode.  And if you really like the Elevate Construction podcast, I'd appreciate you telling a friend (Maybe even two

On today's episode, Xanax and booze don't mix on a private jet flight....----Yeeessss... The first of the 2026 live MFB 'Status: Arrested' Tour tickets are now on sale.Keep an eye out for more dates to be announced real soon.MELBOURNE - APRIL 11 - 1:30PM - BASEMENT COMEDY CLUB MICFMELBOURNE - APRIL 18 - 1:30PM - BASEMENT COMEDY CLUB MICFCody's show CRU$HER is hitting all major centres and more in 2026. He's back. It's red hot. Fuckin' do it. Stop going to shit comedians who charge double and deliver half.-----------------------------------YOUR STUPID has arrived. It's a book. It's a similar vibe to last year's one, but better. If you want a copy, head over to lukeheggie.com and stump up, and it will arrive via Australia Post. Any First Class Patrons, yours have been posted, (including the seppos - at great personal expense) but excluding the three bastards who have not provided an address, and seem to refuse to reply to emails. Sort it out. I'll bring some to live shows too. That is all.Heggie's 2026 show I WON'T SAY IT AGAIN is on sale now too. It's a hand-selected crack team of bits from the last five years. Get on it here.-----------------------------------Heggie dropped a FOURTH YouTube special, GROT, but still left the comments closed like a coward. Watch it here.Cody's new stand-up special "LIVE AT THE CORNER HOTEL" is OUT NOW on YouTubeHave a squizz and leave comments before he takes Heggie's cowardly route and turns off the comments. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Did your parents have a lot stuff? After parents pass away, figuring out what to do with all of their possessions could be a full time job. And deciding what to keep, give away, or throw away, can take a lot of emotional strength. Becky Robison, author of My Parents Are Dead: What Now? A Panic-Free Guide to the Practicalities of Death, gives some advice on how to sort through a parent's possessions after they pass away, or have a conversation with a parent to help them make a plan before they pass. Plus, listeners share their personal experience and questions.

Let's get into the seductive trap of information hoarding – without actual application – and leave with real practical guidance for beginning to *live* your Human Design. In this episode, we cover:→ The significant difference between intellectual understanding and practical application→ Personal examples on our journey of moving from theory to practice→ Insights on Strategy and Authority and how to actually experiment with these aspects of your Human Design→ Overcoming fears associated with beginning to outwardly live your Human Design in the world→ Recognizing the difference between ideas and true urges or responses→ The transformative power of aligning with one's true self through Human Design Let's get into it! PS – This episode is Part 2/4 of YOUR FUTURE DEPENDS ON KNOWING WHO YOU ARE (and Human Design Shows You How)

On this episode, we dig into reports that Patek Philippe may roll back U.S. retail prices—by as much as 8%—after last year's sharp tariff- and currency-driven increases. We break down why the math isn't as simple as tariffs going down and prices following, how import costs actually work at the wholesale level, and why this move raises uncomfortable questions for collectors who bought during the peak pricing window. We then zoom out to the broader issue of volatility. From shifting tariff policy to currency swings and geopolitical uncertainty, we explain why brands are being pushed into a kind of reactive, market-based pricing that's common for commodities but highly unusual for luxury watches. We compare Patek's approach with Rolex's more measured strategy and show how very different tactics can still land brands in roughly the same place over time. Finally, we look at what this all means for the secondary market. While headline data suggests pre-owned prices stabilized in 2025, we explain why that rebound is narrowly driven by Patek, Rolex, and AP—and why value retention for most watches continues to weaken as new prices rise faster than used ones. The takeaway: the market may look calmer on the surface, but underneath, volatility remains the defining feature. Hosted by Asher Rapkin and Gabe Reilly, co-founders of Collective Horology, Openwork goes inside the watch industry. You can find us online at collectivehorology.com. To get in touch with suggestions, feedback or questions, email podcast@collectivehorology.com.

We review the third season of Spy x Family. We've been wanting this anime to give us something substantial to the plot, and did this season deliver? Sort of. We discuss impacts to relationships, Loid's backstory, Yor's struggle to find normalcy, and whether the status quo really changed by the end of this season. While you're listening to this episode, why not pair it up with a delicious snack from a #TokyoTreat box? Use code STRICTLYANIME for $5 off your first box: https://team.tokyotreat.com/strictlyanime Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/4Rnq4GTePP Support the podcast: https://www.patreon.com/thestrictlyseries Website: https://www.thestrictlyseries.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thestrictlyseries X (Twitter): https://x.com/strictlyseries Part of The Strictly Series of podcasts

What sort of things should be in Christian wedding/marriage vows? Are the traditional wedding vows found in the Bible?

We used to dream of opportunities like this. Now it's a reality. To sit behind the microphone and discuss the National Western Steer Show with all 3 judges on the panel is a huge honor. Class by class, discussion by discussion, debate and conversation is all in this episode. Do you want to know what was going through the judges mind while in the new arena? Tune in. This is the official post game sort of the National Western Steer Show. Empowerment Is Here. 

This week Colin and Radec discuss Mega Man 1-11, Puppeteer, The Mortal Kombat Legacy Kollection, and more. Please keep in mind that our timestamps are approximate, and will often be slightly off due to dynamic ad placement. 0:00:00 - Intro0:39:34 - Mega Man 1-111:23:09 - Puppeteer1:34:54 - Sort it Out/Keep it Up2:28:38 - Game Recommendation2:29:53 - Mortal Kombat Legacy Kollection2:52:28 - Closing Questions To watch the podcast on YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/LastStandMediaYouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/SummonSign⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ If you like the show, telling a friend about it would be amazing! You can text, email, Tweet, or send this link to a friend: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/SummonSign⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How on earth did Man City lose to Bodo/Glimt and what does Pep need to do to get his team going again? Arsenal are top of the Champions League and looking imperious, is this the year they win it all? Newcastle looked impressive at home to PSV but how will they fare in Paris next week as they look to clinch a top 8 spot against PSG? Have Liverpool quietly turned a corner in recent weeks? Gary, Alan and Micah also discuss the continued overall dominance of the Premier League clubs in Europe as all five Premier League clubs have a chance of finishing in the Champions League top eight and the Pod Wars are starting to ramp up! The Rest Is Football is powered by Fuse Energy. To sign up and for terms and conditions, visit fuseenergy.com/football. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Keke wants to know if it's normal to want to call off your wedding every other week!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Vincent “Chin” Gigante was the most powerful mob boss in America...and he was also the mob's best performance artist. By day, he wandered Greenwich Village in a bathrobe, muttering to himself, selling the world on the idea that he was crazy. By night, he ran the Genovese crime family with near-absolute discipline, avoiding wires, indictments, and the spotlight that destroyed flashier dons. For decades, he convinced the FBI and the courts he was too mentally ill to stand trial, all while green-lighting murders, controlling unions, and skimming millions, turning the Genovese family into the most powerful criminal group in America. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is Human Design, really? Why has it become so relevant right now?And why is knowing – and truly living – your design the key to your future? In this episode, we kick off a brand new series (!!) exploring Human Design as an indispensable tool for navigating unprecedented times, reconnecting with your body's intuition, and unlocking the individuality that the world *desperately* needs. This conversation is both introductory and grounded, designed to help you understand what Human Design actually is – and why it's not just another personality system or spiritual trend. In this episode, we cover:→ What Human Design is (and what it isn't)→ Where Human Design comes from and how it works at a high level→ How Human Design changed our lives—and why that matters for your future→ Why knowing yourself is no longer optional in the world we're living in→ How living in alignment with your design impacts not just you, but the collective→ Why this work isn't “airy-fairy self-reflection,” but a practical and necessary skill This episode sets the foundation for the entire series and introduces the core idea we'll keep returning to:

Mardi 20 janvier, François Sorel a reçu Salime Nassur, fondateur de Maars, Fanny Bouton, directrice du quantique chez OVHcloud, et Christophe Aulnette, senior advisor chez Seven2 et ancien président de Microsoft France et Asie du Sud. Ils se sont penchés sur l'offre tout en cash de Netflix pour racheter Warner Bros, les téléviseurs Sony confiés à TCL, et le retrait d'Asus du marché du smartphone au profit de l'IA, dans l'émission Tech & Co, la quotidienne, sur BFM Business. Retrouvez l'émission du lundi au jeudi et réécoutez-la en podcast.

JAMES I, THE GUNPOWDER PLOT, AND THE RISE OF THE MIDDLING SORT Colleague Jonathan Healey. King James I faces a divided England upon his accession, navigating religious tensions between Catholics, Puritans, and the mainstream. The 1605 Gunpowder Plot, a radical Catholic attempt to blow up Parliament, fuels lasting anti-Catholic paranoia and associates Catholicism with tyranny. Healey explains the rise of the "middling sort," a wealthy, literate class of farmers and lawyers who increasingly comprise the voting body in Parliament. Meanwhile, Jamesstruggles with structural inflation and attempts to avoid the fractious Parliament by keeping England out of expensive foreign wars. NUMBER 11670 CHARLES II

This week (***we wrongly say eppy 166, we DO mean 165, ooopsie) the huns love hedgehogs, Hannah's not socially well and did Big S date a bad boy? We discuss army lads, exes and there's every chance the world's ending. But what a lovely time we're having. It's best we turn to the tarot to find out if WW3 is coming. Spoiler - it is the King of Wands. Which predicts Big Masculine Energy. FFS.  Anyway, who cares! This week is... a Creep of the Week Special!!!! Where we hear a lovely selection of YOUR spookiest stories! COW COW COW COW! CA-COW! Story 1  Big S takes us to South London. A terrifying haunting on Anerley Hill... in Room 3B. Sent by Dio. Story 2  Hannah has a gorge story from Helena - some AUDIO EVIDENCE OF A GHOST in Devon! In Stoke Fleming...!!! Which is where we went and experienced a table tipping by itself.  Story 3  Suzie gots a tale from anonymous... This is a creepy but wholesome one from the West Coast of Scotland. Story 4 Hannah narrates a stun story about the Ancient Ram Inn in Gloucestershire. VIDEO EVIDENCE! Sent by a gorge Suzi. Finally, we end with telepathy which is getting us closer to being... Pros. Sort of.  ENJOY HUNS WE LOVE YAAAAA xoxoxo JOIN OUR PATREON! EXTRA bonus episodes AND a monthly ghost hunt for just £4.50!  Or £6 for AD-FREE EPS and weekly AGONY HUNS! We'll solve your problems huns!  Sign up here: www.patreon.com/GhostHuns Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Trump invades Greenland tomorrow. Danish forces shoot on American forces. American forces shoot back. Maybe a Canadian gets killed since we're there in support of NATO. In the end America takes Greenland by force. What happens next, Bob?There may be nobody in this country who has had a closer view of the turmoil currently overwhelming the international order than former UN Ambassador Bob Rae. His tenure overlapped with COVID, the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, Russia's invasion of Ukraine, October 7th, and Israel's subsequent siege and bombardment of Gaza. Bob Rae retired a couple months ago. Which means he's free to speak his mind. And that's what he does today on Canadaland.Host: Stephen MarcheCredits: Tristan Capacchione (Audio Editor and Technical Producer), Bruce Thorson (Senior Producer), max collins (Director of Audio), Jesse Brown (Editor and Publisher)Featured Guest: Bob RaeFact checking by Julian AbrahamAdditional music by Audio NetworkPhoto: Mykola SwarnykMore information:Steve Paikin: Bob Rae, now a private citizen, tells it like it is. Sort of — The Toronto StarCanada faces existential challenge from Trump's hemisphere strategy, former envoy warns — The Globe & MailFormer UN ambassador Bob Rae on the state of the organization and his future — The Globe & MailSponsors: MUBI: To stream great cinema at home, you can try MUBI free for 30 days at https://mubi.com/canadalandDouglas: Douglas is giving our listeners a FREE Sleep Bundle with each mattress purchase. Get the sheets, pillows, mattress and pillow protectors FREE with your Douglas purchase today. Visit https://douglas.ca/canadaland to claim this offer.Article: Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit https://article.com/canadaland and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.BetterHelp: Visit https://BetterHelp.com/canadaland today to get 10% off your first month.Can't get enough Canadaland? Follow @Canadaland_Podcasts on Instagram for clips, announcements, explainers and more.If you value this podcast, support us! You'll get premium access to all our shows ad free, including early releases and bonus content. You'll also get our exclusive newsletter, discounts on merch at our store, tickets to our live and virtual events, and more than anything, you'll be a part of the solution to Canada's journalism crisis, you'll be keeping our work free and accessible to everybody. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Come sit with me—let's slow down, sleep better, and feel more like ourselves. My courses (gentle, practical, cozy) - Rested & Rising — Founding Cohort $97 (starts Feb 28)   One gentle week at a time: short lessons, calming practices, tiny actions, friendly circle.   Join here → lauren-ostrowski-fenton-s-school.teachable.com/p/rest-and-rising - Sleep Mastery — start tonight   Practical tools for calmer evenings and deeper sleep.   Learn more → https://lauren-ostrowski-fenton-s-school.teachable.com/p/sleep-mastery-unlock-the-secrets-to-deep-sleep-and-rest Free gift (to begin softly) 2026 Reflections Guide—simple prompts to set a kinder tone for your year: Download → https://lauren-ostrowski-fenton-s-school.teachable.com/l/pdp/new-year-s-reflections-guide-unlock-your-authentic-self-a-simple-reflection-guide-lauren-ostrowski-fenton A little book for your bedside Daily Rituals for Happiness → https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B01GA4KXWY?ref=KC_GS_GB_AU Let's stay close (come say hi) - Substack: https://substack.com/@laurenostrowskifenton - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/laurenostrowskifenton/ - Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/4YfDM1kGnepG5NG4poCwK0 - Medium: https://medium.com/@laurenostrowskifenton Support the work (only if it feels good) - Buy Me a Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/Laurenostrowskifenton - Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/laurenostrowskifenton Gentle reminder My content is supportive, not medical advice—please reach out to a health professional for personal care. With warmth, Lauren Original vocals and video © 2025 Lauren Ostrowski Fenton Tags #GentleReset #RestedAndRising #Sleep #Mindfulness #SoftPlanning #NervousSystemCare    

This week, Cog joins Brad to discuss the upcoming Xbox Developer Direct, Sonic 06, Terminator 2D: No Fate, and the Dragon Quest VII Reimagined demo. Please keep in mind that our timestamps are approximate, and will often be slightly off due to dynamic ad placement. 0:00:00 - Intro0:08:15 - Upcoming Xbox Developer Direct Predictions and Thoughts0:28:41 - Terminator 2D No Fate0:38:51 - Dragon Quest VII: Reimagined (demo)0:55:56 - Sort it Out/Keep it Up1:34:20 - Game Recommendation1:35:45 - Marvel Cosmic Invasion1:43:51 - Sonic The Hedgehog (06)2:00:12 - Destiny 2 Renegades2:12:59 - Closing Questions To watch the podcast on YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/LastStandMediaYouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/SummonSign⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ If you like the show, telling a friend about it would be amazing! You can text, email, Tweet, or send this link to a friend: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/SummonSign⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

[Questions de femmes] Comme chaque vendredi, un médecin spécialisé répond aux questions des auditrices de Priorité Santé. Cette semaine, nous parlons de dépigmentation et de la pression sociale qui est exercée sur les femmes pour avoir un teint plus clair. Quels peuvent être les risques pour la santé ? Comment aider les femmes à arrêter cette pratique préjudiciable pour leur santé ? Vouloir changer quelque chose dans son apparence, ça peut sembler à la fois légitime et naturel, surtout lorsque l'environnement y incite, et que l'on est persuadé que les produits employés sont inoffensifs, sur le plan de la santé. La dépigmentation volontaire est une pratique fréquente, dans certaines régions du monde. Une étude de l'OMS montre ainsi que près de 77% des femmes utiliseraient régulièrement ces produits éclaircissants au Nigeria, 66% au Congo-Brazzaville ou encore 50% au Sénégal.  Brûlures, infections, boutons ou vergetures   Derrière une pratique qui peut sembler à première vue inoffensive, existent en réalité de multiples risques pour la santé associés à l'usage de certains produits : des complications dermatologiques, mais aussi à long terme, un risque accru de maladies comme certains cancers ou le diabète…  Valoriser les peaux au naturel Une pression sociétale incite les femmes à ces usages : une représentation de la réussite sociale, une valorisation de modèles importés, et une forme de dépréciation de la peau noire ou naturelle, associée à des normes héritées de la colonisation.  Le cercle vicieux de la dépigmentation Cette pratique dangereuse pour la santé est d'autant plus problématique qu'y mettre fin présente plusieurs difficultés. On associe ainsi la dépigmentation à une dépendance, très complexe à arrêter : dans un premier temps, la peau peut présenter des tâches et imperfections qui vont conduire les personnes à reprendre cet usage. Certains dermatologues comparent les produits éclaircissants à une drogue.  Responsabilité publique Il faut donc envisager la sensibilisation d'un point de vue global, qui exclut la culpabilité des usagers et intègre la complexité de l'arrêt de la pratique, dans un environnement propice. La lutte contre la dépigmentation est donc non seulement l'affaire des soignants, des patients, mais aussi des pouvoirs publics, des médias et des supports de communication qui continuent de tolérer ou de faire la promotion de ces cosmétiques néfastes en particulier pour la santé des femmes.  Avec : Ismahan Soukeyna Diop, maîtresse de conférences au Département de Psychologie et docteure en Psychologie clinique à l'Université de Cheikh Anta Diop à Dakar au Sénégal   Dr Elena Bougaire, dermatologue, activiste féministe, co-fondatrice de la Kimpavita, initiative culturelle féministe et éco-responsable.   La palabre au féminin de Charlie Dupiot. Programmation musicale : ► Asa – Jailer ► Zily – Mamio.

[Questions de femmes] Comme chaque vendredi, un médecin spécialisé répond aux questions des auditrices de Priorité Santé. Cette semaine, nous parlons de dépigmentation et de la pression sociale qui est exercée sur les femmes pour avoir un teint plus clair. Quels peuvent être les risques pour la santé ? Comment aider les femmes à arrêter cette pratique préjudiciable pour leur santé ? Vouloir changer quelque chose dans son apparence, ça peut sembler à la fois légitime et naturel, surtout lorsque l'environnement y incite, et que l'on est persuadé que les produits employés sont inoffensifs, sur le plan de la santé. La dépigmentation volontaire est une pratique fréquente, dans certaines régions du monde. Une étude de l'OMS montre ainsi que près de 77% des femmes utiliseraient régulièrement ces produits éclaircissants au Nigeria, 66% au Congo-Brazzaville ou encore 50% au Sénégal.  Brûlures, infections, boutons ou vergetures   Derrière une pratique qui peut sembler à première vue inoffensive, existent en réalité de multiples risques pour la santé associés à l'usage de certains produits : des complications dermatologiques, mais aussi à long terme, un risque accru de maladies comme certains cancers ou le diabète…  Valoriser les peaux au naturel Une pression sociétale incite les femmes à ces usages : une représentation de la réussite sociale, une valorisation de modèles importés, et une forme de dépréciation de la peau noire ou naturelle, associée à des normes héritées de la colonisation.  Le cercle vicieux de la dépigmentation Cette pratique dangereuse pour la santé est d'autant plus problématique qu'y mettre fin présente plusieurs difficultés. On associe ainsi la dépigmentation à une dépendance, très complexe à arrêter : dans un premier temps, la peau peut présenter des tâches et imperfections qui vont conduire les personnes à reprendre cet usage. Certains dermatologues comparent les produits éclaircissants à une drogue.  Responsabilité publique Il faut donc envisager la sensibilisation d'un point de vue global, qui exclut la culpabilité des usagers et intègre la complexité de l'arrêt de la pratique, dans un environnement propice. La lutte contre la dépigmentation est donc non seulement l'affaire des soignants, des patients, mais aussi des pouvoirs publics, des médias et des supports de communication qui continuent de tolérer ou de faire la promotion de ces cosmétiques néfastes en particulier pour la santé des femmes.  Avec : Ismahan Soukeyna Diop, maîtresse de conférences au Département de Psychologie et docteure en Psychologie clinique à l'Université de Cheikh Anta Diop à Dakar au Sénégal   Dr Elena Bougaire, dermatologue, activiste féministe, co-fondatrice de la Kimpavita, initiative culturelle féministe et éco-responsable.   La palabre au féminin de Charlie Dupiot. Programmation musicale : ► Asa – Jailer ► Zily – Mamio.

Do you ever wonder whether your grocery store cares about whether you have a healthy diet? Every time we shop or read advertisement flyers, food retailers influence our diets through product offerings, pricings, promotions, and of course store design. Think of the candy at the checkout counters. When I walk into my Costco, over on the right there's this wall of all these things they would like me to buy and I'm sure it's all done very intentionally. And so, if we're so influenced by these things, is it in our interest? Today we're going to discuss a report card of sorts for food retailers and the big ones - Walmart, Kroger, Ahold Delhaize USA, which is a very large holding company that has a variety of supermarket chains. And this is all about an index produced by the Access to Nutrition Initiative (ATNi), a global foundation challenging the food industry investors and policy makers to shape a healthier food system. The US Retail Assessment 2025 Report evaluates how these three businesses influence your access to nutritious and affordable foods through their policies, commitments, and actual performance. The Access to Nutrition Initiatives' director of Policy and Communications, Katherine Pittore is here with us to discuss the report's findings. We'll also speak with Eva Greenthal, who oversees the Center for Science in the Public Interest's Federal Food Labeling work.   Interview Transcript Access ATNi's 2025 Assessment Report for the US and other countries here: Retail https://accesstonutrition.org/index/retail-assessment-2025/ Let's start with an introduction to your organizations. This will help ground our listeners in the work that you've done, some of which we've spoken about on our podcast. Kat, let's begin with you and the Access to Nutrition Initiative. Can you tell us a bit about the organization and what work it does? Kat Pittore - Thank you. So, the Access to Nutrition Initiative is a global foundation actively challenging the food industry, investors, and policymakers to shape healthier food systems. We try to collect data and then use it to rank companies. For the most part, we've done companies, the largest food and beverage companies, think about PepsiCo, Coca-Cola, and looking are they committed to proving the healthiness of their product portfolios. Do the companies themselves have policies? For example, maternity leave. And these are the policies that are relevant for their entire workforce. So, from people working in their factories all the way up through their corporate areas. And looking at the largest companies, can these companies increase access to healthier, more nutritious foods. One of the critical questions that we get asked, and I think Kelly, you've had some really interesting guests also talking about can corporations actually do something. Are corporations really the problem? At ATNi, we try to take a nuanced stance on this saying that these corporations produce a huge amount of the food we eat, so they can also be part of the solution. Yes, they are currently part of the problem. And we also really believe that we need more policies. And that's what brings us too into contact with organizations such as Eva's, looking at how can we also improve policies to support these companies to produce healthier foods. The thought was coming to my mind as you were speaking, I was involved in one of the initial meetings as the Access to Nutrition Initiative was being planned. And at that point, I and other people involved in this were thinking, how in the world are these people going to pull this off? Because the idea of monitoring these global behemoth companies where in some cases you need information from the companies that may not reflect favorably on their practices. And not to mention that, but constructing these indices and things like that required a great deal of thought. That initial skepticism about whether this could be done gave way, at least in me, to this admiration for what's been accomplished. So boy, hats off to you and your colleagues for what you've been able to do. And it'll be fun to dive in a little bit deeper as we go further into this podcast. Eva, tell us about your work at CSPI, Center for Science in the Public Interest. Well known organization around the world, especially here in the US and I've long admired its work as well. Tell us about what you're up to. Eva Greenthal - Thank you so much, Kelly, and again, thank you for having me here on the pod. CSPI is a US nonprofit that advocates for evidence-based and community informed policies on nutrition, food safety and health. And we're well known for holding government agencies and corporations to account and empowering consumers with independent, unbiased information to live healthier lives. And our core strategies to achieve this mission include, of course, advocacy where we do things like legislative and regulatory lobbying, litigation and corporate accountability initiatives. We also do policy and research analysis. We have strategic communications such as engagement with the public and news media, and we publish a magazine called Nutrition Action. And we also work in deep partnership with other organizations and in coalitions with other national organizations as well as smaller grassroots organizations across the country. Across all of this, we have a deep commitment to health equity and environmental sustainability that informs all we do. And our ultimate goal is improved health and wellbeing for people in all communities regardless of race, income, education, or social factors. Thanks Eva. I have great admiration for CSPI too. Its work goes back many decades. It's the leading organization advocating on behalf of consumers for a better nutrition system and better health overall. And I greatly admire its work. So, it's really a pleasure to have you here. Kat, let's talk about the US retail assessment. What is it and how did you select Walmart, Kroger, and Ahold Dehaize for the evaluation, and why are retailers so important? Kat - Great, thanks. We have, like I said before, been evaluating the largest food and beverage manufacturers for many years. So, for 13 years we have our global index, that's our bread and butter. And about two years ago we started thinking actually retailers also play a critical role. And that's where everyone interfaces with the food environment. As a consumer, when you go out to actually purchase your food, you end up most of the time in a supermarket, also online presence, et cetera. In the US 70% or more of people buy their food through some type of formal food retail environment. So, we thought we need to look at the retailers. And in this assessment we look at the owned label products, so the store brand, so anything that's branded from the store as its own. We think that's also becoming a much more important role in people's diets. In Europe it's a really critical role. A huge majority of products are owned brand and I think in the US that's increasing. Obviously, they tend to be more affordable, so people are drawn to them. So, we were interested how healthy are these products? And the US retail assessment is part of a larger retail assessment where we look at six different countries trying to look across different income levels. In high income countries, we looked at the US and France, then we looked at South Africa and Indonesia for higher middle income. And then finally we looked at Kenya and the Philippines. So, we tried to get a perspective across the world. And in the US, we picked the three companies aiming to get the largest market share. Walmart itself is 25 to 27% of the market share. I've read an amazing statistic that something like 90% of the US population lives within 25 kilometers of a Walmart. Really, I did not realize it was that large. I grew up in the US but never shopped at Walmart. So, it really does influence the diet of a huge number of Americans. And I think with the Ahold Delhaize, that's also a global conglomerate. They have a lot of supermarkets in the Netherlands where we're based, I think also in Belgium and across many countries. Although one interesting thing we did find with this retail assessment is that a big international chain, they have very different operations and basically are different companies. Because we had thought let's start with the Carrefours like those huge international companies that you find everywhere. But Carrefour France and Carrefour Kenya are basically very different. It was very hard to look at it at that level. And so that's sort of what brought us to retailers. And we're hoping through this assessment that we can reach a very large number of consumers. We estimate between 340 to 370 million consumers who shop at these different modern retail outlets. It's so ambitious what you've accomplished here. What questions did you try to answer and what were the key findings? Kat - We were interested to know how healthy are the products that are being sold at these different retailers. That was one of our critical questions. We look at the number of different products, so the owned brand products, and looked at the healthiness. And actually, this is one of the challenges we faced in the US. One is that there isn't one unified use of one type of nutrient profile model. In other countries in the Netherlands, although it's not mandatory, we have the Nutri Score and most retailers use Nutri Score. And then at least there's one thing that we can use. The US does not have one unified agreement on what type of nutrient profile model to use. So, then we're looking at different ones. Each company has their own proprietary model. That was one challenge we faced. And the other one is that in other countries you have the mandatory that you report everything per hundred grams. So, product X, Y, and Z can all be compared by some comparable thing. Okay? A hundred grams of product X and a hundred grams of product Y. In the US you have serving sizes, which are different for different products and different companies. And then you also have different units, which all of my European colleagues who are trying to do this, they're like, what is this ounces? What are these pounds? In addition to having non-comparable units, it's also non-standardized. These were two key challenges we face in the US. Before you proceed, just let me ask a little bit more about the nutrient profiling. For people that aren't familiar with that term, basically it's a way to score different foods for how good they are for you. As you said, there are different profiling systems used around the world. Some of the food companies have their own. Some of the supermarket companies have their own. And they can be sort of unbiased, evidence-based, derived by scientists who study this kind of thing a lot like the index developed by researchers at Oxford University. Or they can be self-serving, but basically, they're an index that might take away points from a food if it's high in saturated fat, let's say but give it extra points if it has fiber. And that would be an example. And when you add up all the different things that a food might contain, you might come away with a single score. And that might then provide the basis for whether it's given a green light, red light, et cetera, with some sort of a labeling system. But would you like to add anything to that? Kat - I think that's quite accurate in terms of the nutrient profile model. And maybe one other thing to say here. In our retail index, it's the first time we did this, we assess companies in terms of share of their products meeting the Health Star rating and we've used that across all of our indexes. This is the one that's used most commonly in Australia and New Zealand. A Health Star rating goes zero to five stars, and 3.5 or above is considered a healthier product. And we found the average healthiness, the mean Health Star rating, of Walmart products was 2.6. So quite low. Kroger was 2.7 and Food Lion Ahold Delhaize was 2.8. So the average is not meeting the Health Star rating of 3.5 or above. We're hoping that by 2030 we could see 50% of products still, half would be less than that. But we're not there yet. And another thing that we looked at with the retail index that was quite interesting was using markers of UPFs. And this has been a hotly debated discussion within our organization as well. Sort of, how do you define UPF? Can we use NOVA classification? NOVA Classification has obviously people who are very pro NOVA classification, people who also don't like the classification. So, we use one a sort of ranking Popkins et al. developed. A sort of system and where we looked at high salt, fat sugar and then certain non-nutritive sweeteners and additives that have no benefit. So, these aren't things like adding micronutrients to make a product fortified, but these are things like red number seven and colors that have no benefit. And looked at what share of the products that are produced by owned label products are considered ultra processed using this definition. And there we found that 88% of products at Walmart are considered ultra processed. Wow. That's quite shocking. Eighty eight percent. Yeah, 88% of all of their own brand products. Oh, my goodness. Twelve percent are not. And we did find a very high alignment, because that was also a question that we had, of sort of the high salt, fat, sugar and ultra processed. And it's not a direct alignment, because that's always a question too. Can you have a very healthy, ultra processed food? Or are or ultra processed foods by definition unhealthy beyond the high fat, salt, sugar content. And I know you've explored that with others. Don't the retailers just say that they're responding to demand, and so putting pressure on us to change what we sell isn't the real problem here, the real issue. It's to change the demand by the consumers. What do you think of that? Kat - But I mean, people buy what there is. If you went into a grocery store and you couldn't buy these products, you wouldn't buy them. I spent many years working in public health nutrition, and I find this individual narrative very challenging. It's about anything where you start to see the entire population curve shifting towards overweight or obesity, for example. Or same when I used to work more in development context where you had a whole population being stunted. And you would get the same argument - oh no, but these children are just short. They're genetically short. Oh, okay. Yes, some children are genetically short. But when you see 40 or 50% of the population shifting away from the norm, that represents that they're not growing well. So I think it is the retailer's responsibility to make their products healthier and then people will buy them. The other two questions we tried to look at were around promotions. Are our retailers actively promoting unhealthy products in their weekly circulars and flyers? Yes, very much so. We found most of the products that were being promoted are unhealthy. The highest amount that we found promoting healthy was in Food Lion. Walmart only promoted 5% healthy products. The other 95% of the products that they're actively promoting in their own circulars and advertising products are unhealthy products. So, then I would say, well, retailers definitely have a role there. They're choosing to promote these products. And then the other one is cost. And we looked across all six countries and we found that in every country, healthier food baskets are more expensive than less healthier food baskets. So you take these altogether, they're being promoted more, they're cheaper, and they're a huge percentage of what's available. Yes. Then people are going to eat less healthy diets. Right, and promoted not only by the store selling these products, but promoted by the companies that make them. A vast amount of food marketing is going on out there. The vast majority of that is for foods that wouldn't score high on any index. And then you combine that with the fact that the foods are engineered to be so palatable and to drive over consumption. Boy, there are a whole lot of factors that are conspiring in the wrong direction, aren't there. Yeah, it is challenging. And when you look at all the factors, what is your entry point? Yes. Eva, let's talk about CSPI and the work that you and your colleagues are doing in the space. When you come up with an interesting topic in the food area and somebody says, oh, that's pretty important. It's a good likelihood that CSPI has been on it for about 15 years, and that's true here as well. You and your colleagues have been working on these issues and so many others for so many years. But you're very active in advocating for healthier retail environments. Can you highlight what you think are a few key opportunities for making progress? Eva - Absolutely. To start off, I could not agree more with Kat in saying that it really is food companies that have a responsibility for the availability and affordability of healthy options. It's absolutely essential. And the excessive promotion of unhealthy options is what's really undermining people's ability to make healthy choices. Some of the policies that CSPI supports for improving the US retail environment include mandatory front of package nutrition labeling. These are labels that would make it quick and easy for busy shoppers to know which foods are high in added sugar, sodium, or saturated fat, and should therefore be limited in their diets. We also advocate for federal sodium and added sugar reduction targets. These would facilitate overall lower amounts of salt and sugar in the food supply, really putting the onus on companies to offer healthier foods instead of solely relying on shoppers to navigate the toxic food environments and make individual behavior changes. Another one is taxes on sweetened beverages. These would simultaneously nudge people to drink water or buy healthier beverages like flavored seltzers and unsweetened teas, while also raising revenue that can be directed towards important public health initiatives. Another one is healthy checkout policies. These would require retailers to offer only healthier foods and beverages in areas where shoppers stand in line to purchase their groceries. And therefore, reduce exposure to unhealthy food marketing and prevent unhealthy impulse purchases. And then another one is we advocate for online labeling requirements that would ensure consumers have easy access to nutrition, facts, ingredients, and allergen information when they grocery shop online, which unbelievably is currently not always the case. And I can also speak to our advocacy around the creating a uniform definition of healthy, because I know Kat spoke to the challenges in the US context of having different retailers using different systems for identifying healthier products. So the current food labeling landscape in the US is very confusing for the consumer. We have unregulated claims like all natural, competing with carefully regulated claims like organic. We have a very high standard of evidence for making a claim like prevents cold and flu. And then almost no standard of evidence for making a very similar claim like supports immunity. So, when it comes to claims about healthiness, it's really important to have a uniform definition of healthy so that if a product is labeled healthy, consumers can actually trust that it's truly healthy based on evidence backed nutrition standards. And also, so they can understand what that label means. An evidence-based definition of healthy will prevent misleading marketing claims. So, for example, until very recently, there was no limit on the amount of added sugar or refined grain in a product labeled healthy. But recent updates to FDA's official definition of healthy mean that now consumers can trust that any food labeled healthy provides servings from an essential food group like fruit, vegetable, whole grain, dairy, or protein. And doesn't exceed maximum limits on added sugar, sodium, and saturated fat. This new healthy definition is going to be very useful for preventing misleading marketing claims. However, we do think its reach will be limited for helping consumers find and select healthy items mainly because it's a voluntary label. And we know that even among products that are eligible for the healthy claim, very few are using it on their labels. We also know that the diet related chronic disease epidemic in the US is fueled by excess consumption of junk foods, not by insufficient marketing of healthy foods. So, what we really need, as I mentioned before, are mandatory labels that call out high levels of unhealthy nutrients like sodium, added sugar, and saturated fat. Thanks for that overview. What an impressive portfolio of things you and your colleagues are working on. And we could do 10 podcasts on each of the 10 things you mentioned. But let's take one in particular: the front of the package labeling issue. At a time where it seems like there's very little in our country that the Democrats and Republicans can't agree on, the Food and Drug Administration, both previously under the Biden Harris Administration, now under the Trump Vance Administration have identified for a package of labeling as a priority. In fact, the FDA is currently working on a mandatory front of package nutrition label and is creating a final rule around that issue. Kat, from Access to Nutrition Initiative's perspective, why is mandatory front of package labeling important? What's the current situation kind of around the world and what are the retailers and manufacturers doing? Kat - So yes, we definitely stand by the need for mandatory front of package labeling. I think 16 countries globally have front of package labeling mandated, but the rest have voluntary systems. Including in the Netherlands where I live and where Access to Nutrition is based. We use the voluntary Nutri Score and what we've seen across our research is that markets where it's voluntary, it tends to not be applied in all markets. And it tends to be applied disproportionately on healthy products. So if you can choose to put it, you put it all on the ones that are the A or the Nutri Score with the green, and then you don't put it on the really unhealthy products. So, then it also skews consumers. Because like Eva was saying, people are not eating often. Well, they, they're displacing from their diet healthy products with unhealthy products. So that that is a critical challenge. Until you make it mandatory, companies aren't going to do that. And we've seen that with our different global indexes. Companies are not universally using these voluntary regulations across the board. I think that's one critical challenge that we need to address. If you scan the world, there are a variety of different systems being used to provide consumers information on the front of packages. If you could pick one system, tell us what we would actually see on the package. Kat - This is one we've been debating internally, and I saw what CSPI is pushing for, and I think there's growing evidence pushing for warning style labels. These are the ones that say the product is high in like really with a warning, high in fat, high in salt, high in sugar. And there is evidence from countries like Chile where they have introduced this to show that that does drive change. It drives product reformulation. Companies change their products, so they don't have to carry one of the labels. Consumers are aware of it. And they actively try to change their purchasing behaviors to avoid those. And there's less evidence I think interpretive is important. A Nutri Score one where you can see it and it's green. Okay, that's quick. It's easy. There are some challenges that people face with Nutri Score, for example. That Nutri Score compares products among the same category, which people don't realize outside of our niche. Actually, a colleague of mine was telling me - my boyfriend was in the grocery store last week. And he's like picked up some white flour tortillas and they had a Nutri Score D, and then the chips had a Nutri Score B. And he's like, well, surely the tortillas are healthier than the chips. But obviously the chips, the tortilla chips were compared against other salty snacks and the other one was being compared to bread. So, it's like a relatively unhealthy bread compared to a relatively healthy chip. You see this happening even among educated people. I think these labels while well intentioned, they need a good education behind them because they are challenging, and people don't realize that. I think people just see A or green and they think healthy; E is bad, and people don't realize that it's not comparing the same products from these categories. One could take the warning system approach, which tells people how many bad things there are in the foods and flip it over and say, why not just give people information on what's good in a food? Like if a food has vitamins and minerals or protein or fiber, whatever it happens. But you could label it that way and forget labeling the bad things. But of course, the industry would game that system in about two seconds and just throw in some good things to otherwise pretty crappy foods and make the scores look good. So, yeah, it shows why it's so important to be labeling the things that you'd like to see less of. I think that's already happening. You see a lot of foods with micronutrient additions, very sugary breakfast cereals. You see in Asia, a lot of biscuits and cookies that they add micronutrients to. I mean, there's still biscuits and cookies. So Eva, I'd like to get your thoughts on this. So tell us more about the proposed label in the US, what it might look like, and the history about how this got developed. And do you think there's anything else needed to make the label more useful or user-friendly for consumers? Eva - Absolutely. It is a very exciting time to work on food policy in the US, especially with this momentum around front of package labeling. CSPI actually first petitioned calling for front of pack labeling in 2006. And after more than a decade of inaction, industry lobbying, all these countries around the world adopting front of pack labeling systems, but not the US. In 2022 CSPI filed a new petition that specifically called for mandatory interpretive nutrient specific front of package labeling, similar to the nutrient warning labels already required in Mexico, Canada, and as Kat said, around 16 other countries. And in early 2025, FDA finally responded to our petition by issuing a proposal that if finalized would require a nutrition info box on packaged foods. And what the nutrition info box includes is the percent daily value per serving of sodium, added sugar and saturated fat, accompanied by the words high, medium, or low, assessing the amount of each nutrient. This proposal was a very important step forward, but the label could be improved in several ways. First off, instead of a label that is placed on all foods, regardless of their nutrient levels, we strongly recommend that FDA instead adopt labels that would only appear on products that are high in nutrients of concern. A key reason for this is it would better incentivize companies to reduce the amount of salt, sugar, or saturated fat in their product because companies will want to avoid wasting this precious marketing real estate on mandatory nutrition labels. So, for example, they could reduce the amount of sodium in a soup to avoid having a high sodium label on that soup. And also, as you were saying before around the lack of a need to require the positive nutrients on the label, fortunately the FDA proposal didn't, but just to chime in on that, these products are already plastered with claims around their high fiber content, high protein content, vitamin C, this and that. What we really need is a mandatory label that will require companies to tell you what they would otherwise prefer not to. Not the information that they already highlight for marketing purposes. So, in addition to these warning style labels, we also really want FDA to adopt front of package disclosures for foods containing low and no calorie sweeteners. Because this would discourage the industry from reducing sugar just by reformulating with additives that are not recommended for children. So that's a key recommendation that CSPI has made for when FDA finalizes the rule. FDA received thousands and thousands of comments on their labeling proposal and is now tasked with reviewing those comments and issuing a final rule. And although these deadlines are very often missed, so don't necessarily hold your breath, but the government's current agenda says it plans to issue a final rule in May 2026. At CSPI, we are working tirelessly to hold FDA to its commitment of issuing a final regulation. And to ensure that the US front of pack labeling system is number one mandatory and number two, also number one, really, mandatory, and evidence-based so that it really has the best possible chance of improving our diets and our food supply. Well, thank you for the tireless work because it's so important that we get this right. I mean, it's important that we get a system to begin with, even if it's rudimentary. But the better it can be, of course, the more helpful it'll be. And CSPI has been such an important voice in that. Kat, let's talk about some of the things that are happening in developing countries and other parts of the world. So you're part of a multi-country study looking at five additional countries, France, South Africa, Indonesia, the Philippines, and Kenya. And as I understand, the goal is to understand how retail food environments differ across countries at various income levels. Tell us about this, if you would, and what sort of things you're finding. Kat – Yes. So one of our questions was as companies reach market saturation in places like France and the US and the Netherlands, they can't get that many more customers. They already have everyone. So now they're expanding rapidly. And you're seeing a really rapid increase in modern retail purchasing in countries like Indonesia and Kenya. Not to say that in these countries traditional markets are still where most people buy most of their food. But if you look at the graphs at the rate of increase of these modern different retailers also out of home, it's rapidly increasing. And we're really interested to see, okay, given that, are these products also exposing people to less healthy products? Is it displacing traditional diets? And overall, we are seeing that a lot of similar to what you see in other context. In high income countries. Overall healthier products are again, more expensive, and actually the differential is greater in lower income countries. Often because I think also poor people are buying foods not in modern retail environments. This is targeting currently the upper, middle, and higher income consumer groups. But that will change. And we're seeing the same thing around really high percentages of high fat, salt, sugar products. So, looking at how is this really transforming retail environments? At the same time, we have seen some really interesting examples of countries really taking initiative. In Kenya, they've introduced the first Kenyan nutrient profile model. First in Africa. They just introduced that at the end of 2025, and they're trying to introduce also a mandatory front of package warning label similar to what Eva has proposed. This would be these warnings high in fat, salt, and sugar. And that's part of this package that they've suggested. This would also include things around regulations to marketing to children, and that's all being pushed ahead. So, Kenya's doing a lot of work around that. In South Africa, there's been a lot of work on banning marketing to children as well as front of package labeling. I think one of the challenges we've seen there, and this is something... this is a story that I've heard again and again working in the policy space in different countries, is that you have a lot of momentum and initiative by civil society organizations, by concerned consumer groups. And you get all the way to the point where it's about to be passed in legislation and then it just gets kicked into the long grass. Nothing ever happens. It just sits there. I was writing a blog, we looked at Indonesia, so we worked with this organization that is working on doing taxation of sugar sweetened beverages. And that's been on the card since 2016. It actually even reminded me a lot of your story. They've been working on trying to get the sugar sweetened beverage tax in Indonesia passed since 2016. And it gets almost there, but it never gets in the budget. It just never passes. Same with the banning marketing to children in South Africa. This has been being discussed for many years, but it never actually gets passed. And what I've heard from colleagues working in this space is that then industry comes in right before it's about to get passed and says, oh no, but we're going to lose jobs. If you introduce that, then all of the companies that employ people, people will lose their jobs. And modeling studies have shown this isn't true. That overall, the economy will recover, jobs will be found elsewhere. Also, if you factor in the cost to society of treating diabetes from high consumption or sugar sweetened beverages. But it's interesting to see that this repeats again and again of countries get almost over the line. They have this really nice draft initiative and then it just doesn't quite happen. So, I think that that will be really interesting. And I think a bit like what Eva was saying in many of these countries, like with Kenya, are we going to see, start seeing the warning labels. With South Africa, is this regulation banning marketing to children actually going to happen? Are we going to see sugar sweetened beverage taxes written into the 2026 budget in Indonesia? I think very interesting space globally in many of these questions. But I think also a key time to keep the momentum up. It's interesting to hear about the industry script, talking about loss of jobs. Other familiar parts of that script are that consumers will lose choices and their prices will go up. And those things don't seem to happen either in places where these policies take effect. But boy, they're effective at getting these things stomped out. It feels to me like some turning point might be reached where some tipping point where a lot of things will start to happen all at once. But let's hope we're moving in that direction. Kat - The UK as of five days ago, just implemented bans on marketing of unhealthy products to children, changes in retail environment banning promotions of unhealthy products. I do think we are seeing in countries and especially countries with national healthcare systems where the taxpayer has to take on the cost of ill health. We are starting to see these changes coming into effect. I think that's an interesting example and very current. Groundbreaking, absolutely groundbreaking that those things are happening. Let me end by asking you each sort of a big picture question. Kat, you talked about specific goals that you've established about what percentage of products in these retail environments will meet a healthy food standard by a given year. But we're pretty far from that now. So I'd like to ask each of you, are you hopeful we'll get anywhere near those kind of goals. And if you're hopeful, what leads you to feel that way? And Kat, let's start with you and then I'll ask Eva the same thing. Kat - I am hopeful because like you said, there's so much critical momentum happening in so many different countries. And I do find that really interesting. And these are the six countries that we looked at, but also, I know Ghana has recently introduced a or working to introduce a nutrient profile model. You're seeing discussions happening in Asia as well. And a lot of different discussions happening in a lot of different places. All with the same ambition. And I do think with this critical momentum, you will start to break through some of the challenges that we're facing now too. Where you see, for example, like I know this came up with Chile. Like, oh, if you mandate it in this context, then it disadvantages. So like the World Trade Organization came out against it saying it disadvantaged trade, you can't make it mandatory. But if all countries mandate it, then you remove some of those barriers. It's a key challenge in the EU as well. That the Netherlands, for example, can't decide to introduce Nutri Score as a mandatory front of package label because that would disadvantage trade within the European Union. But I think if we hit a critical point, then a lot of the kind of key challenges that we're facing will no longer be there. If the European Union decides to adopt it, then also then you have 27 countries overnight that have to adopt a mandatory front of package label. And as companies have to do this for more and more markets, I think it will become more standardized. You will start seeing it more. I'm hopeful in the amount of momentum that's happening in different places globally. Good. It's nice to hear your optimism on that. So, Eva, what do you think? Eva - So thinking about front of package labeling and the fact that this proposed regulation was put out under the previous presidential administration, the Biden Harris Administration and is now intended to be finalized under the Trump Vance Administration, I think that's a signal of what's really this growing public awareness and bipartisan support for food and nutrition policies in the US. Obviously, the US food industry is incredibly powerful, but with growing public awareness of how multinational food companies are manipulating our diets and making us sick for their own profit, I think there's plenty of opportunity to leverage the power of consumers to fight back against this corporate greed and really take back our health. I'm really happy that you mentioned the bipartisan nature of things that starting to exist now. And it wasn't that long ago where you wouldn't think of people of the political right standing up against the food companies. But now they are, and it's a huge help. And this fact that you have more people from a variety of places on the political spectrum supporting a similar aim to kinda rein in behavior of the food industry and create a healthier food environment. Especially to protect children, leads me to be more optimistic, just like the two of you. I'm glad we can end on that note. Bios Katherine Pittore is the director of Policy and Communications at the Action to Nutrition Initiative. She is responsible for developing a strategy to ensure ATNi's research is translated into better policies. Working collaboratively with alliances and other stakeholders, she aims to identify ways for ATNi's research to support improved policies, for companies, investors and governments, with the aim of creating a more effective playing field enabling markets to deliver more nutritious foods, especially for vulnerable groups in society. Katherine has been working in the field of global nutrition and food systems since 2010. Most recently at Wageningen Centre for Development Innovation (WCDI), where she worked as a nutrition and food security advisor on range projects, mostly in Africa. She also has also worked as a facilitator and trainer, and a specific interest in how to healthfully feed our increasingly urbanizing world. She has also worked for several NGOs including RESULTS UK, as a nutrition advocacy officer, setting up their nutrition advocacy portfolio focusing aimed at increasing aid spending on nutrition with the UK parliament, and Save the Children UK and Save the Children India, working with the humanitarian nutrition team. She has an MSc in Global Public Health from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and a BA in Science and Society from Wesleyan University.  Eva Greenthal oversees Center for Science in the Public Interest's federal food labeling work, leveraging the food label as a powerful public health tool to influence consumer and industry behavior. Eva also conducts research and supports CSPI's science-centered approach to advocacy as a member of the Science Department. Prior to joining CSPI, Eva led a pilot evaluation of the nation's first hospital-based food pantry and worked on research initiatives related to alcohol literacy and healthy habits for young children. Before that, Eva served as a Program Coordinator for Let's Go! at Maine Medical Center and as an AmeriCorps VISTA Member at HealthReach Community Health Centers in Waterville, Maine. Eva holds a dual MS/MPH degree in Food Policy and Applied Nutrition from Tufts University and a BA in Environmental Studies from University of Michigan.  

Email us at: HealingFromEmotionalAbusePod@gmail.com   Healing after abuse doesn't end when the abuse does. In this episode, I reflect on 15 years of life after experiencing abuse, sharing how healing evolves over time, what recovery actually looks like long-term, and the insights that only come with distance and self-work. We discuss: The long-term effects of abuse Why healing isn't linear or time-bound Growth, grief, and self-compassion years later Rebuilding identity after trauma Moving from survival into intentional healing This episode is for survivors who are years into their journey and still learning, growing, and redefining what healing means. Ideal for listeners searching for: Healing years after abuse Long-term abuse recovery Trauma reflection and growth Survivor stories and healing journeys Mental health and post-traumatic growth

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight's Host Miko Lee speaks with authors who have used their personal lives to tell their stories. They both talk and write about trauma, joy and resilience but in two very different ways. First up she chats with Chanel Miller. Many folx might know of Chanel's best selling first book Know My Name which expands on the powerful victim impact letter she wrote to Brock Turner who brutally sexually assaulted her on the Stanford Campus. We talk about her latest work – two delightful books for young people. Then Miko talks with Kazu Haga who weaves his spiritual practice and trauma healing with a deep lineage of nonviolent social change.  In his books, Fierce Vulnerability and Healing Resistance he shares with us his personal journey and offers some insightful visions for our current tumultuous world.  Links to the Author's work: Kazu Haga  Fierce Vulnerability Kinship Lab,  Chanel Miller Chanel Miller The Moon Without Stars Purchase Chanel's books at East Wind Books and Kazu's books at Parallax Press  SHOW TRANSCRIPT APEX Opening: Apex Express. Asian Pacific Expression. Community and cultural coverage. Music and calendar. New visions and voices. Coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express. Miko Lee: Good evening. Welcome to apex express. This is your host, Miko Lee. Join us as you hop along the apex express. Tonight I speak with authors who have used their personal lives to tell their stories. They both talk and write about trauma, joy, and resilience, but in two very different and distinct ways. First up, I chat with Chanel Miller. Many folks might know of Chanel's bestselling first book Know My Name, which expands on the powerful victim impact letter she wrote to Brock Turner, who brutally sexually assaulted her on the Stanford campus. But tonight we talk about her latest work, two delightful books for young people. And then I talk with Kazu Haga, who weaves his spiritual practice and trauma healing with a deep lineage of nonviolent social change. In his books Fierce vulnerability and Healing Resistance, he shares with us his personal journey and offers some insightful visions for our current tumultuous world. First off, listen to my conversation with Chanel Miller. Welcome, author Chanel Miller to Apex Express. Chanel Miller: Thank you so much for having me. It's a delight to be here with you. Miko Lee: I'm really excited to talk to you, and I wanna start with my first question, which I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Chanel Miller: Oh, I have so many people. Today, you're my people who continue to help guide me forward. I grew up in the Bay Area and I feel like honestly all of my books are attempts at saying thank you to the people who raised me, the English teachers in my public schools. For helping me stay aligned with myself and never letting me drift too far. And so even though I tell very different stories for different demographics, I think if you look at the root of everything that I write, it's gratitude because they are the people who protected my voice in the first place. Miko Lee: Thank you so much. So we're talking about your third book. Your first book was amazing. Know my name, which is really powerful memoir about surviving sexual assault at Stanford, and this incredible public reclamation of your voice. And then you move from that very personal, internal, very adult work to your second book, which was so lovely and sweet. Magnolia Woo unfolds it all, which was an illustrated book set New York about a little girl and her friend who reunite people with their lost socks. From this all the way to this young person's book and your latest book, the Moon Without Stars, your second, YA novel is based in middle school. So talk to me a little bit about this journey from personal memoir to elementary school to middle school books. Chanel Miller: Yeah, so like you said, the first book was so internal and gutting to write. I knew I needed. Something that would help me breathe a little easier and get in touch with playfulness again. I wrote Magnolia Woo Unfolds it all. It's perfect for kids ages seven to 12. My goal was just to enjoy the process of writing and story making. And it was confusing because I thought if I'm not, you know, during the memoir, I would be like crying while I was writing and it was just taking everything out of me. And I was like, if I'm not actively upset. Is the writing even good? Like, like, you know, does it count? And it turns out, yes, you can still create successful stories and have a good time. So I did that book for myself really. And the kid in me who always wanted to, who was always, writing stories unprompted. Like you said, it was a book about a sock detective and pursuing socks makes no sense. It's almost impossible to return a missing sock in New York City. But I loved the idea of these. This little girl in pursuit of something, even if she doesn't know what the outcome will be. Right. It's just trying even if you're not promised a reward, I love this. And for me it's like I keep attempting to love my reality, right? Attempting to go out into the world with an exploratory lens rather than a fearful one. And so that was very healing for me. After I finished that book, I spent the next year writing this new book, the Moon Without Stars. It's for slightly older kids, like you said in middle school. So my protagonist Luna, is 12 years old and she's biracial like me, goes to middle school in Northern California like I did in Palo Alto. I was just reflecting on my. Upbringing, I would say, and really sitting back and letting memories come to the surface. Trying to see how much, was just unexplored. And then sitting down to, to figure out what it all meant that I remembered all of these things. Miko Lee: So how much of Luna is inspired by Chanel? Chanel Miller: A fair amount, I'd say. And it's not always an intentional, I think fiction deals a lot with the subconscious and you end up writing about yourself on accent luna in the book. She is the campus book doctor, is what I call it. Because when kids are going through something, they'll come to her and she'll prescribe them a book that'll help them for whatever phase of life they're going through. And I know for me from a very young age, I loved reading, writing, and drawing. It's all that I ever wanted to do and I was so mad in school that we had six different subjects and you know, the Bay Area was very tech. Centered, STEM centered. And so I felt all this pressure even through high school to take AP Science classes. In retrospect, I thought, why was I trying so hard to be good at it? Everything. This is impossible. And so for Luna, I own her gifts early. And understand that they were gifts at all. The fact that she loves to read and then she shares her gifts and she takes pride in the things that she's passionate about. She's not ashamed that she's not so hot about math. Miko Lee: So the hating math part is a little Chanel inspired also. Chanel Miller: The hating math part is fully me. I'm sorry to say. Miko Lee: No worries. I think that stereotype about Asians and math is so highly overrated. I'm wondering if there was a Scott for you, a bestie that was also an outcast, if there was someone like that for you when you were growing up. Chanel Miller: Yeah, so in the book, Luna is best friends with Scott. They've been friends since childhood, and as Luna starts to get more attention, their relationship is threatened and it begins to dissolve. I was really interested in how, Luna obviously loves Scott as a friend and she would never. Mean to hurt him, right? It's not inflicting intentional emotional pain, but Scott gets very hurt. I think about how sometimes when we're growing up, we get drawn to certain crowds or paid a kind of attention and we have this longing to be desired to fit in. we sometimes make choices that we're not very proud of, but this is a part of it, right? And so I wanted Luna to reckon with maybe some of the emotional harm she's causing and not run away from it. But also think about like, why am I making these choices and what is important to me? We're all kind of constantly reevaluating our value systems, trying to keep our relationships alive, like this is, starts at a very young age and I wanted her to learn some of the self gifts that maybe I didn't give myself when I was that age. Miko Lee: So in a way, she's a little bit of a remedy for your young self or a gift to your young self. Do you think? Chanel Miller: Oh, that's a nice way of putting it. Yeah, I would definitely say so. I think all writing is, is remedy in some form, at least for me, but I like the, it being a gift to little Chanel. Miko Lee: It's been compared to the classic. Are you there god, it's me, Margaret? What is it like for you to hear that? Chanel Miller: It's an honor, obviously. I think what's most stunning is a lot of the themes that were contested in that book. You know, talking about bodily changes, menstruation like. A lot of that is still kind of hush hush, and I'm surprised by the things that haven't changed , or how our society hasn't completely evolved. I really wanted middle school so hard physically, emotionally, and. It can feel so humiliating that you're trying to solve a lot of your issues in private, and I wanted to take the shame out of it as quickly as possible and just say, this is a universal experience. Everyone goes through these things. It's totally okay to talk about it, even if books get banned. Find a way, find your people. Find a way to have these conversations. Miko Lee: For me, it's so much better than, are you there? God, it's me, Margaret, because it's set in a contemporary. There's a young biracial Asian American girl who's a outcast and really it's about belonging and getting your first period and all the things you have to go through in middle school. That seems really. Relatable for a young woman in our society. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. I read it really quick one night, easily read 'cause it's so lovely. I'm wondering about your process because you illustrated, your last book and then also the cover of this book. And on the cover it's sweet because it has all these cute little zines that she writes about are encapsulated on the cover of the book, which you only realize after you read it. I'm wondering for you as an artist, what comes first in the story, the image or the words? Chanel Miller: That's a great question. Yeah. I like to illustrate my books. Sometimes I'll think of a, something I do wanna draw and then think, how can I build a story around that, or like a visually rich scene. Then I come up with writing to allow myself to draw the thing. Other times I will just write, but I, I will say that when I'm writing, I never have a plot. I'm not an outliner. I am very much an explorer. I'm okay with not knowing for long periods of time where the book is gonna go, what it's about , and how it's gonna end. I don't know any of these things. And luckily I have a very gracious, agent and editor and my editor. I had two editors, Jill and Juan, and they let me just submit chunks of writing for six months. Scenes that didn't go together, that were completely out of order , to show them I'm attempting to build this world and this school full of kids, but I don't know how it's all gonna play out yet. And then after six months, we had enough material to, to begin to identify like who the primary characters were gonna be, what the essential conflict was gonna be. I'm saying this because I want people to know that you don't have to know much before you sit down to write. And the knowing comes with the practice of doing every day, and then slowly things start to reveal themselves. Miko Lee: Oh, I appreciate that. So you don't have a linear timeframe. You kind of just let things come to you. Sometimes they're in images, sometimes they're in words. Chanel Miller: Yes. And then your job is to capture them and be curious about them and then make more until you have enough. Then you can edit, but you edit too early, you're gonna , kill the spirit of the thing. Miko Lee: When do you know you have enough? Chanel Miller: When you fulfill the word count in your contract? No, no, I think it's, it's like you can. Sort of start to feel things click into place or a voice is emerging that's very strong. Even Scott know, Luna's best friend, I didn't have him at the very beginning, I don't think originally. Originally, I think Luna had a sister. It was gonna be a sister book, and then it became a friend. You're just open to it evolving, and then suddenly you're like, oh, I can, I can see this relationship. Can see them existing within the structure. It feels more real to you and at that point you can just go in and start revising Miko Lee: Did you create images for know my name? Chanel Miller: I actually tried to, at the very end, I made a bunch of drawings and I said, can we put these at the start of each chapter? And my editor, who's incredible, she said, you know, when I look at your drawings, they have a different voice than your writing voice. And I was like, that is true. Like, that's a great critique. So instead I went to New York, they were like about to send the book to print and I was like, okay, but I need like one drawing. They said, okay, if you can do it at lunch, like have it done by the end of lunch, we'll put it in the acknowledgement. So I dedicated the book to my family and. I sat at the desk and just did this little, these four little creatures that represented my immediate family and cut it outta my notebook. They scanned it in and sent it off to print with a book. So I did get, I did get it. Miko Lee: And how is the illustrator's voice different from the author's voice? Chanel Miller: The illustrator's voice can be very loose, whimsical, playful, whereas the writing, you know, was so measured and heavy and intentional, and so. I liked that edit, and I also, my editor was confident that I would have more opportunities in the future to write and draw, whereas I felt so vulnerable. It's my first book, it's my only chance to say or do anything, but that's not true. Now I understand like I have time to make all kinds of things. You don't have to shove it all into one project. Miko Lee: And are these, more youth-focused books? Do you feel like that's more a combination of your illustrator and your author voice? Chanel Miller: Totally. The medium like allows you to do both. It kind of asks for images also. Who knows, maybe, I still wanna write, contemporary fiction for adults and maybe I'll adults like visuals too. Absolutely. Miko Lee: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm wondering what you want young readers to walk away with after reading the, your latest book. Chanel Miller: Things smooth out in really unexpected ways. And that you can never truly mess up. Like I messed up so many times growing up or would get a really bad grade. I really would think like, this is the end. Like my future just disappeared. I just can't recover from this, and I always would, and I'm here now, like there, there are so many times I guess, that I thought my life was totally and completely over and, it was never the case. Sure, life could be sour for a bit, or you could be really stressed out, but it's not the end. Different things will change. People will be introduced to help you. Like you just keep showing up in whatever way you can. You won't be stuck in that place. It's been a nice thing to learn, as you get older. I just remember when I felt young, it felt so impossible sometimes, and I promise it's not, Miko Lee: I imagine that with Know my name. Many people came up with you, survivors came up and shared their stories with you, and I'm wondering if that was the same with your second book, if people came up and just told stories about, being a kid detective or what their, if it brought things up for them in a totally different realm. Chanel Miller: Oh yeah, absolutely. In the book, Magnolia's parents are Chinese and, , they're working at a laundromat and a customer comes in and there's, microaggressions happen and, I think with microaggressions you can always. Justify them in your head and say, it's not as bad as explicit violence or something, where it's not a truly a crime. And so you kind of push them to the side, push them to the side, but over time, like they do really stick with you and they're so hurtful and they accumulate and they're not okay to begin with. And I wanted my little character, Magnolia to. Just feel that anger that I often suppress and be like, it's not okay for people to talk to you like that. Like we are allowed to say something about it. It's dehumanizing and it's unacceptable. I wanted to give her the opportunity to confront that emotion and really express what, how it made her feel. Miko Lee: You're just starting your book tour right now. Is that right? For the Moon Without Stars. Chanel Miller: My book comes out January 13th. I'll go on a two week book tour. I'll have two stops in the Bay area. One at, book passage in Cord Madera. One in Los Altos at a church. It's sponsored by Linden Tree Books. We're just doing the event offsite, so if you're in the bay and wanna come say hello, please do that. Miko Lee: Yay. Excited to hear about that. I'm curious, I'm really curious what kind of stories people will tell you about their kind of middle school bully experience or their standing up to bullies and wanting to be in the popular crowd and what's that like? It's such a common middle school experience. Chanel Miller: I'm just really happy that people like have the opportunity to remember, 'cause it's not what we talk about every day. I just love that things are coming up for people and you're like, wow, I never would've thought about that or. I, I, that's why writing is so fun. You get to remember. Miko Lee: It's definitely not what we talk about every day, but definitely that middle school time really, helps shape who we are as adults. That's a really tough time because there's so many hormones going crazy in your body. So many changes that I think a lot of people have big feelings about middle school. Tell us what's next for you. Chanel Miller: I still love writing middle grade like this age is so sweet. It's so rich, emotionally rich. I would like to do something that's, you know, this one was more contemporary realism and I would love to do something that, not pure fantasy, but like breaks the rules of reality a little bit. Just really see where my imagination can go. A little magical realism perhaps. Yeah, absolutely. Miko Lee: I would just encourage you, I really love the Scott and Luna characters and seeing them patch their relationship up in high school as friends and how they can grow. Oh, I think would be a really sweet story also, and how they could explore maybe through magical realism. Some of the, book Doctors Zine World would be fun. Yeah. Yeah. I like those characters, is what I'm saying. I think there's more to come outta those characters and their friendship. Chanel Miller: Oh, that's really sweet. You don't wanna say goodbye to them yet. Miko Lee: Yeah, that's right. Well, it has been a delight chatting with you. Thank you so much for sharing your stories and your work and it's very powerful. Appreciate chatting with you. Chanel Miller: I really appreciate the platform you provide and how you're making room for these genuine conversations. So thank you so much. Jalena Keane-Lee: Next up, listen to blues scholars ode to Yuri Kochiyama. That was Blue Scholars, Ode to Yuri Kochiyama. Miko Lee: Yuri Koyama said, we are all part of one another, and that relates so well to my conversation with author, organizer and teacher Kazu Haga. Welcome, Kazu Haga to Apex Express. I'm so glad to have you with us. Kazu Haga: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Miko Lee: I'm gonna start with a question that I ask all of my guests because I'm a curious person, and my question is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Kazu Haga: Oh, wow. Well, when you ask the second question, the immediate response is that I am Japanese. There's a lot of important legacies that come with that. Of course there's so much of my Japanese ancestry that I'm proud of and want to continue to deepen in and understand better. But I'm also aware that, you know, being Japanese, I come from colonizer people, right? And I'm so aware of the. Harm that my ancestors caused to so many people, whether dating back all the way to indigenous. I knew people in Japan, or a lot of the violence that my ancestors committed during the war to Zan Korean communities and Chinese communities and Filipino communities. I feel like in addition to all the beauty and the amazing things that I love about Japanese culture, that's a legacy that I carry with me and a lot of my work has to do with trying to understand what it means to carry that legacy and what it means to try to heal from that legacy and how I take that approach into my own personal life as well as into my activist work. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for recognizing that history and sharing a little bit about your path. I can see so much of how that turns up in your work. So I've had the pleasure of reading your two latest two books. I'm sure there'll be many more to come, I hope. Can you speak a little bit about what inspired you to create healing resistance? Kazu Haga: Yeah, so healing resistance is my interpretation of a set of teachings called kingian non-violence, and it's a philosophy that was based on the teachings of Dr. Martin Luther King. And I have the great privilege to have been mentored by a lot of elders who work very closely with Dr. King and were some of the most instrumental leaders in the civil Rights movement. I started my kind of activist career back in 1999 or something like that when I was 18, 19 years old. And for the longest time, the word non-violence didn't have a lot of meaning to me. But when I was 28 years old, I think I took this two-day workshop on this philosophy called King Non-Violence, and that two-day workshop just completely changed my life forever. I thought after 10 years of doing nothing but social justice movement building work, that I had some idea of what the word non-violence meant and some idea of who Dr. King was. But that two day workshop taught me that I knew nothing about what the word non-violence meant. Since I took that workshop, I feel like I've been on this never ending journey to better understand what it means to practice non-violence and incorporate that as a value into my life. And so healing resistance is, yeah, just my spin on the teachings of Dr. King told through the stories of my life experiences. Miko Lee: I really appreciated how you wove together your personal journey with your, understanding of movement building and how you incorporated that in. I'm wondering, I think it was in this book, but I read both of your books close to back to back, so I might be mixing them up, but I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the salt protestors that happened in India and the two years of training that it took them to be able to stand up and for our listeners, just like really back up and explain what that protest was about, and then the kind of training that it took to get there. Kazu Haga: It was actually more than two years. So, you know, everyone, or a lot of people know about the Salt March. It's the thing that I think a lot of people look to as the thing that really sparked the Indian Independence Movement, similar to the Montgomery Bus boycott in the US Civil Rights Movement. It's when a group of people marched across India all the way to the ocean. Engaged in an act of civil disobedience was, which was to go into the water and make their own salt. Salt is something that had been heavily controlled and taxed by the British Empire, and so the people who lived even on the coast of the ocean were not allowed to make their own salt. And so it was an act of civil disobedience to break a British colonial law saying that we are reclaiming this ancestral cottage industry for ourselves. And one of the reasons why it was so powerful and drew so many millions of people out into the street was because when Gandhi envisioned it. He didn't just put out an open call and said, anyone who wants to join the March can join. Ultimately, that's where they landed. But when the March started, he selected, I think it was about 76 of his followers, and he chose these 76 people and said, you all are gonna start the Salt March. And he chose those 76 people because they had lived in Astrom. And did spiritual practice and engaged in creative nonviolent direct action together for 16 years before they embarked on the salt march. So it was 16 years of kinda like dedicated residential spiritual training , and nonviolent direct action training that allowed these people to become the type of leaders that could draw out millions and millions of people into the street. And so it's one of the things that I really learned about the legacy of nonviolence is the importance of training and understanding that preparing ourselves spiritually to lead a movement that can transform nations is a lifetime of work. And to not underestimate the importance of that training and that rigor. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for correcting me. Not two but 16 years and a really a lifetime to, that's right. To develop the skills. I wonder if you've been following the Buddhist monks that are walking across the US right now. Kazu Haga: Yeah. And the dog, right? Miko Lee: Yeah. Whose dog and that dog. And I wonder what your thoughts are on that. Kazu Haga: I've really come to this place where I understand injustice and state violence, not as a political issue, but as a manifestation of our collective trauma. Like all the forms of state violence and injustice that we see, they happen because collectively as nation states and as communities and as a species, we have unresolved trauma that we haven't been able to heal from. And I think if we can see injustice less as a political issue and more as a manifestation of collective trauma, then perhaps we can build movements that have the sensitivity to understand that we can't just shut down injustice that when you're responding to a trauma response, what you need to do is to try to open things up. Things like spiritual practice and spiritual worldviews, like what, however that word spiritual lands on people. I think that there's a broad understanding of spirituality that doesn't have to include any sort of religious stigma. But when we ground ourselves in spiritual practice, when we ground ourselves in this larger reality that we belong to something so much larger than ourselves as individuals, then a lot more is possible and we're able to open things up and we're able to slow things down in response to the urgency of this moment, which I think is so necessary. When I look at these Buddhist monks spending however months it's gonna take for them to reach Washington dc the patience. The rigor and the slowness. How every step is a prayer for them. And so all of those steps, all of that effort is I think adding to something that has the possibility to open something up in a way that a one day protest cannot. So I'm really inspired by that work. Miko Lee: And it's amazing to see how many people are turning out to walk with them or to watch them. And then on the same hand, or the other hand, is seeing some folks that are protesting against them saying, that this is not the right religion, which is just. Kind of shocking to me. Grew up in a seminary environment. My dad was a professor of social ethics and we were really taught that Jesus is a son of God and Kuan is a daughter of God. And Muhammad, all these different people are sons and daughters of God and we're all under the same sky. So it seems strange that to me, that so many folks are using religion as a tool for. Pain and suffering and injustice and using it as a justification. Kazu Haga: Yeah. It's sad to hear people say that this is the wrong religion to try to create change in the world because I think it's that worldview that is at the heart of what is destroying this planet. Right. It's, it's not this way. It has to be that way and this binary right. Wrong way of thinking. Miko Lee: Yeah. Kazu Haga: But yeah. The first spiritual book I ever read when I was 16 years old was a book by Thích Nhất Hanh called Living Buddha, living Christ. Yes. And in that book he was saying that the teachings of the Buddha and the teachings of Jesus Christ, if you really look at the essence of it, is the same thing. Miko Lee: That's right. Yeah. This brings us to your book, fierce Vulnerability, healing from Trauma Emerging Through Collapse. And we are living in that time right now. We're living in a time of utter collapse where every day it seems like there's a new calamity. We are seeing our government try to take over Venezuela right now and put police forces into Minnesota. It's just crazy what's going on. I wonder if you can just talk a little bit about this book. Clearly it's the Times that has influenced your title and [00:34:00] in influenced you to write this book can be, share a little bit more about what you're aiming to do. Kazu Haga: Yeah, and you know, it's also Greenland and Cuba and Colombia and Panama, and it's also the climate crisis and it's also all of these other authoritarian regimes that are rising to power around the co, around the world. And it's also pandemics and the next pandemics. And we are living in a time of the poly crisis. A time that our recent ancestor, Joanna Macy calls the great turning or the great unraveling so we can get to the great turning where all of these systems are in a state of collapse and the things that we have come to, to be able to rely on are all unraveling. And I think if we are not grounded in. Again, I use this word spirituality very broadly speaking, but if we are not grounded in a sense that we are connected to something so much larger than ourselves as individuals, I think it's so easy to just collapse and get into this trauma response state in response to all of the crises that we are facing, and so fierce vulnerability. It's at the intersection of spiritual practice, trauma healing, and nonviolent action, and understanding that in response to all of these crises that we are facing, we need powerful forms of action. To harness the power necessary to create the transformations that we need to see. And at the same time, can we see even forms of nonviolent resistance as a form of, as a modality of collective trauma healing? And what are the practices that we need to be doing internally within our own movements to stay grounded enough to remember that we are interdependent with all people and with all life. What does it take for us to be so deeply grounded that even as we face a possible mass extinction event that we can remember to breathe and that we can remember that we are trying to create beauty, not just to destroy what we don't like, but we are trying to affirm life. What does that look like? And so if fierce vulnerability is an experiment, like we don't have all the answers, but if I could just put in a plug, we're about to launch this three month. Experiment called the Fierce Vulnerability Kinship Lab, where we'll be gathering across the world. Participants will be placed in small teams, that are regionally based, so you can meet with people in person, hopefully, and to really try to run a bunch of experiments of what is it gonna take to respond to state violence, to respond to these crises in a way that continues to affirm life and reminds us that we belong to each other. Miko Lee: That sounds amazingly powerful. Can you share how people can get involved in these labs? Kazu Haga: People can check it out on my website, kazu haga.com, and it'll link to the actual website, which is convene.community. It's K-I-N-V-E-N-E. It's a combination of the idea of kinship and community. It's gonna be a really cool program. We just announced it publicly and France Weller and Ma Muse and Kairo Jewel Lingo, and it's gonna be a lot of great teach. And we're trying to just give people, I know so many people are yearning for a way to respond to state violence in a way that feels deeply aligned with their most sacred beliefs and their value systems around interdependence, and peacemaking and reconciliation, but also recognizes that we need to harness power that we need to. Step out of the comfort of our meditation cushions and yoga centers and actually hit the streets. But to do so in a way that brings about healing. It's our way of creating some communities where we can experiment with that in supportive ways. Miko Lee: What is giving you hope these days? Kazu Haga: My daughter and the community that I live in. Like when I look up at the world, things are in a state of collapse. Like when I watch the news, there's a lot of things that are happening that can take away my hope. But I think if we stop looking up all the time and just start looking around, if I start looking around in, not at the vertical plane, but at the horizontal plane, what I see are so many. Amazing communities that are being birthed, land-based communities, mutual aid networks, communities, where people are living together in relationship and trying to recreate village like structures. There are so many incredible, like healing collaboratives. And even the ways that we have brought song culture and spirit back into social movement spaces more and more in the last 10, 15 years, there are so many things that are happening that are giving birth to new life sustaining systems. We're so used to thinking that because the crisis is so big, the response that we need is equally big. When we're looking for like big things, we're not seeing movements with millions of millions of people into the in, in the streets. We're not seeing a new nonprofit organizations with billions of dollars that have the capacity to transform the world because I think we keep looking for big in response to big. But I think if we look at a lot of wisdom traditions, particularly Eastern Traditions, Daoism and things like that, they'll tell us that. Perhaps the best way to respond to the bigness of the crises of our times is to stay small. And so if we look for small signs of new life, new systems, new ways of being in relationship to each other and to the earth, I think we see signs of that all over the place. You know, small spiritual communities that are starting up. And so I see so much of that in my life, and I'm really blessed to be surrounded by a lot of that. Miko Lee: I really appreciate how you walk the walk and talk, the talk in terms of teaching and living in a collective space and even how you live your life in terms of speaking engagements and things. Can you share a little bit about the gift economy that you practice and what's that about? Share with our audience what that even means. Kazu Haga: Yeah. I love this question. Thank you. So the gift economy to me is our attempts at building economic structures that learn from how natural ecosystems share and distribute its resources, right? It's an alternative model to the market system of economics where everything is transac. If you look out into nature, nothing is transactional. Right? All of the gifts that a mycelial network gives to the forest, that it's a part of the ecology that it's a part of. It's given freely, but it's also given freely because it knows that it is part of a deeply interdependent ecosystem where it will also receive everything it needs to be nourished. And so there's a lot that I can say about that. I actually working on, my next book will be on the Gift Economy. But one of the main manifestations of that is all of the work that I do, I try to offer as a gift. So I don't charge anything for the work that I do. The workshops that I organize, you know, the Convene three month program that I told you about, it's a three month long program with world renowned leaders and we are asking people to pay a $25 registration fee that'll support the platform that, that we're building, the program on. And. There's no kind of set fee for the teachers, myself, Francis Weller, mam, all these people. And people have an opportunity to give back to the ecosystem if they feel called and if they're able to try to sustain, to help sustain our work. But we really want to be able to offer this as a gift. And I think in the market economy, a three month virtual training with well-known teachers for $25 is unheard of. Of course $25 doesn't sustain me. It doesn't sustain all of the teachers that are gonna be part of this, but I have so much faith that if we give our work freely and have faith that we are doing the work that we're meant to be doing, that the universe will come together to sustain us. And so I am sustained with the generosity of a lot of [00:42:00] people, a lot of donors, a lot of people who come to my workshop and feel called to give, not out of a sense of obligation, but because they want to support me in my work. Miko Lee: Thank you for sharing and I was so impressed on your website where you break down your family's whole annual budget and everything that you spent funds on. Everybody talks about transparency, but nobody really does it. But you're actually doing it. And for reals, just showing something that's an antidote to the capitalist system to be able to say, okay, this is us. This is our family, this is how we travel, this is what we do, and. I found it really charming and impressive in our, it's hard to rebel against a system where everything has been built up so that we're supposed to act a certain way. So appreciate you. Absolutely. Yeah. Showing some alternatives and I didn't know that's gonna be your next book. So exciting. Kazu Haga: Yeah, I just started it. I'm really grateful that I have a partner that is okay with sharing all of our family's finances transparently. That helps because it is a big thing, you know? Yeah. But one of the things that I really learned. But the gift economy is that if there isn't information, if there isn't transparency about what the system's needs are, then it becomes dependent on every individual to figure out. How much they want to give to that system. And I think the gift economy is trying to break outta that the model of individualism and understand that we are interdependent and we live in this rich ecosystem of interdependence. And so if people's needs aren't transparent, then it's hard for people to figure out how they want to engage in that relationship. Miko Lee: Can you share a little bit more the example of Buddhist monks and how they have the basket and. Share that story a bit for our audience. Kazu Haga: Yeah. So historically, in a lot of, particularly south and southeastern, Asian countries, Buddhist monks, they go around, they walk their community every morning, begging, quote unquote for alms. They ask for donations, and the people in that village in that town will offer them bread or rice or whatever it is. That's kind of the food that, that monks and monastics eat. And so if a Buddhist monk is walking around with a bowl and you see that their bowl is already full, you have a sense, oh, this monastic might not need any more food, but the next monastic that comes along might. And so it's this transparent way of saying, oh, this person's needs are met, so let me hold on to the one piece of bread that I have that I can donate today and see if the next person will need it. And so in that way. If I share my finance transparently, you know, if my financial needs for the month or for the quarter are met, then maybe people who attend my workshops will feel like, oh, I don't have a lot of money to give. Maybe I don't need to give to support Kazu Haga, but maybe I can support, the facilitator for the next workshop that I attend. And so, in that way, I'm hoping that me being transparent about where my finances are will help people gauge how they want to be in relationship with me. Miko Lee: Thank you. I appreciate it. You talk a lot about in your work about ancestral technology or the wisdom, our ancestral wisdoms and how powerful that is. It made me think about the day after the election when Trump was elected. I happened to be in this gathering of progressive artists in the Bay Area and everybody was. Incredibly depressed. There was even, should we cancel that day or not? But we pulled together, it was at the Parkway Theater in Oakland and there was an aone leader and she talked about the eighth fire and how we are in the time of the eighth fire and you write about the fires in your book, and I'm wondering if you can talk about the seven fires and the prophecy belt. Kazu Haga: Yeah. So through a strange course of events, I had the incredible privilege early on in my life when I was in my early teens, 11, 12, 13, 14 years old, to spend every summer going to the Algonquin Reservation, Anishnabe Nation, way up in Northern Quebec, and spend my evenings sleeping in the basement of Chief William Commander, who was the holder of the seven Fire Prophecies Wampum Belt. This is a prophecy that told the story of the seventh fire that we are in the time of the seventh fire. And this is a moment in the history of our species where we can remember what it means to be human and to go backwards and to reclaim our spiritual path. If we are able to do that, then we can rebuild a new world, the eighth fire and build a world of lasting peace. But if we are unable to do that and continue down this material journey, that will lead to a world of destruction. And this is, prophecies like this one and similar indigenous prophecies that speak the same exact things are the things that were. Just surrounded, that I was surrounded by when I was younger, and I'm so grateful that even though I didn't really believe this kind of stuff when I was younger, it was like the, you know, crazy hippie newey stuff that my mom was into. I'm so grateful to have been surrounded by these teachings and hearing these teachings directly from the elders whose lives purpose. It was to share these teachings with us because when I look out at the world now, it really feels like we are in a choice point as a species. Like we can continue to walk down one journey, one path, and I could very easily see how it would lead to a world of destruction. But we have an opportunity to remember who we are and how we're meant to live in relationship with each other and to the earth. And I have a lot of faith that if we're able to do that, we can build such a beautiful future for our children. And so I think this is the moment that we're in. Miko Lee: Yeah. Thank you so much. Can you share a little bit about your mom? It seems like she was a rule breaker and she introduced you to so many things and you're appreciating it later as an adult, but at the time you're like, what is this? Kazu Haga: Yeah. You know, she was. She grew up in Japan. We were all born in Japan, but she spent a year overseas in the United States as ex as an exchange student in high school. And she always tells me when she went back to Japan, she was listening to the Beatles, and she shaved her legs and she was this like rebellious person in Japan. But yeah, my mom is never been a political activist in the same way that, that I've become. But she's always been deeply, deeply grounded in spiritual practice. Miko Lee: Mm-hmm. Kazu Haga: And for various reasons have always had deep relationships with indigenous elders in North America and Turtle Island. And so I'm always grateful. I feel like she sowed a lot of seeds that when I was young, I made fun of meditation and I was not into spiritual practice at all. 45 years into my life, I find myself doing all the same things that, that she was doing when I was young, and really seeing that as the foundation of the work that I do in the world today. Miko Lee: And have you, have you talked with her about this? Kazu Haga: Oh yeah. I live with her, so we regularly Oh, I Miko Lee: didn't realize Kazu Haga: that.Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's read the book and Yeah. We have a lot of opportunities to, to yeah, just talk and, and reminisce and, and wonder at. How life has a tendency to always come back full circle. Miko Lee: Mm. The paths we lead and how they intertwine in some ways. Definitely. Mm, I love that. I let you know before we went on air is that I'm also interviewing the author Chanel Miller in this episode. You shared with me that you are familiar with her work. Can you talk about that? Kazu Haga: Yeah, so, you know, I talk quite a bit in both of my books about how one of the great privileges that I have is to do restorative justice and trauma healing work with incarcerated people, mostly through the prisons in California. And one of the programs that I've had the privilege to be a part of is with the Ahimsa Collective, where we work with a lot of men who have an experience with sexual violence specifically, both as survivors of sexual harm and as perpetrators oftentimes. And in that program we actually used the letter that she wrote and published as an example of the power of what it could mean to be a survivor speaking their truth. And we used to read this letter in the groups with incarcerated people. And I remember the first time I ever read it, I was the one that was reading it out loud. I broke down into tears reading that, that letter, and it was so powerful. And it's one of those written statements that I think has helped a lot of people, incarcerated people, and survivors, oftentimes, they're both the same people, really heal from the scars that they've experienced in life. So yeah, I have a really deep connection to specifically that statement and her work. Miko Lee: Yeah, it's really powerful. I'm wondering, given that how you use art as a tool to heal for yourself. Kazu Haga: You know, I always wished I was a better poet or a better painter or something like that, but I do really feel like there are certain deep truths that cannot be expressed in just regular linear language. It can only be spoken in song or in dance or in poetry. There's something mystical. There's something that, that is beyond the intellect capacity to understand that I think can be powerfully and beautifully expressed through art. I think art and spiritual practice and prayer and things like that are very like closely aligned. And so in that way I, I try to touch the sacred, I try to touch spirit. I try to touch mystery in the things that I can't quite articulate. Just through conversation and giving in a lecture or a PowerPoint presentation, to, yeah, to touch into something more, more important. Miko Lee: And is your spiritual practice built into your every day? Kazu Haga: To the extent possible. One of the traditions that I have really learned a lot from and love is the Plum Village tradition founded by Thich Nhat Hanh. And they're so good at really reminding us that when we wash our dishes, that can be a spiritual practice, right? I'm the father of a young child. And so it's hard to actually sit down and meditate and to find time for that. And so, how can I use. My moments with my daughter when I'm reading her a book as a spiritual practice, how can I, use the time that I'm picking up the toys that's thrown all around the house as spiritual practice. So in that way, I really try to incorporate that sort of awareness and that reminder that I belong to something larger and everything that we do. Miko Lee: After hearing Ty speak one time, I tried to practice the chewing your food 45 times. I could not do it. Like, how does he do Kazu Haga: that? Some food is easier than others. If you eat oatmeal, it's a little harder, but Miko Lee: like that is some kind of practice I cannot do. Kazu Haga: But, you know, I have, a meditation teacher that years ago taught me every time you get inside your car. The moment that you turn the keys and turn on the ignition in your car, just take that moment and see if you can notice the texture of the keys and see if you can really feel your muscles turning to turn the key. And it's in these little moments that if we bring that intention to it, we can really turn what is like a, you know, a mindless moment into something with deep, deep awareness. Hmm. Miko Lee: Thank you for that. That's an interesting one. I have not heard that one before. Kazu Haga: Nowadays I just like push a button so it's even more mind less. Miko Lee: That's right. There's just a button Now. Keys, there's not even the time anymore to do that. That's right. What is it that you'd love folks to walk away with from being familiar with your work? You, there's so many aspects. You have different books that are out, you lead workshops, you're speaking, you are everyday walking through the world, sharing different things. What is one thing you'd love people to understand? Kazu Haga: Between both of my books and all the work that I do, so much of the essence is to try to help us remember. We belong to each other. I think the fear of isolation, the fear that we do not belong, is one of the most common fears that every human being has. Right? At some point in our lives, we felt like we don't belong. And while that is such a real fear, it's also a delusion. Like in an interdependent world, there is nothing outside of belonging, right? And so we already belong. We are already whole, we are already part of the vastness of the cosmos. There is so much power in remembering that we are part of the infinite universe, and I think the delusion that we do not belong to each other is like is the seed that creates the us versus them worldview, and it's that us versus them worldview that is at the heart of what is destroying our planet. In our efforts to create social change, how can we do so in a way that reminds us that even the people that are causing harm is a deeply critical interwoven web of relationships. That we are all in this web of relationship, that there's nobody outside of that, and how can we go about trying to create change in a way that reminds us of that? Miko Lee: Thank you. And my last question is, I'm wondering if there's something that you're learning from your child these days. Kazu Haga: Yeah, the, just the, the pure presence, right? That each moment is so deeply, deeply real, and each moment is to be honored. Like I am amazed at, we were eating asparagus the other day, and she was eating a whole bowl of asparagus, and she desperately needed me to get her the one piece of asparagus that she wanted. She was so frustrated that I couldn't find the one asparagus that she wanted, and so she was crying and screaming and throwing asparagus across the room, and then the moment I was able to find the one asparagus that she wanted, everything is fine. Everything is beautiful. She's smiling, she's laughing, and so just to. Not that we should be like throwing things around if we're not getting exactly what we want, but how can we honor our emotions every moment in a way that in that moment there is nothing outside of that moment. That sort of presence, is something that I really try to embody and try to learn from her. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for sharing with me. I really appreciate reading your books and being in community with you and, we'll put links to your website so that people Awesome. Thank you. Can find out more. And also, I really appreciate that you're having your books published by a small Buddhist press as and encouraging people to buy from that. Kazu Haga: Yeah. Shout out to ax. Miko Lee: Yes, we will absolutely put those links in our show notes. And thank you so much for joining us on Apex Today. Kazu Haga: Thank you so much for having me. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for joining me on this evening conversation with two different authors, Chanel Miller and Kazu Haga, and my little pitch is just to keep reading. Reading is such a critical and important way we learn about the world. I was just reading this thing that said the average Americans read 12 to 13 books a year. And when I checked in with friends and family, they said that could not be true. That they think they know many people who don't read any books. And I am just encouraging you all to pick up a book, especially by an Asian American Pacific Islander author, hear our perspectives, hear our stories. This is how we expand and understand our knowledge around the world. Grow closer to the people in both our lives and people around the world. So yea to reading, yea to Chanel Miller and Kazu Haga. And check out a local bookstore near you. If you wanna find out more information, please check out our website, kpfa.org, black slash programs, apex Express, where I will link both of these authors and how you can purchase their books at your local independent bookstore. Thank you very much. Goodnight. Please check out our website, kpfa.org. To find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Nina Phillips, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam Tonight's show was produced by me, your host, Miko Lee. Thank you so much for joining us. The post APEX Express – 1.15.26 – Chat with Authors appeared first on KPFA.

Aujourd'hui, Abel Boyi, éducateur, Bruno Poncet, cheminot, et Barbara Lefebvre, prof d'histoire-géographie, débattent de l'actualité autour d'Alain Marschall et Olivier Truchot.

Allen and Joel are joined by Pete Andrews, Managing Director at EchoBolt. They discuss the company’s new BoltWave inspection device, the shift from routine retightening to condition-based monitoring, and how ultrasonic technology helps operators manage blade stud and tower bolt integrity throughout the turbine lifecycle. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind. Energy’s brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering tomorrow. Pete Andrews: Pete, welcome to the program. Good to be back. Yeah. See you face to face. Yeah. Yes. This is wonderful. It’s a really great event to catch it with loads of the. UK innovation that are happening in the supply chain. So it’s, yeah, really nice to be here.  Allen Hall: This is really good to meet in person because we have seen a lot of bolt issues in the us, Canada, Australia, yeah. Uh, all around the world and every time bolt problems come up, I say, have you called Pete Andrews and Echo Bolt and gotten the kit to detect bolt issues? And then who’s Pete? Give me Pete’s phone number. Okay, sure. Uh, but now that we’re here in person, a lot has changed since we first talked to you probably two years ago.[00:01:00] You’re a bootstrap company based in the UK that has global presence, and I, I think it’s a good start to explain what the technology is and why Echo Bolt matters so much in today’s world.  Pete Andrews: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, as you said, we’re a uk, um, SME, there’s a team of 13 of us based here in the uk. Yeah. But we do deliver our services internationally, but really focused on Northern Europe. Yeah. But increasingly we’ve done more in the US and North America, a little bit in Canada. Um, but our big offering really is to help wind turbine operators and owners reduce the need to routinely retire in bulks. So we have a quick and simple inspection technology that people can deploy, find out the status of their bolt connections, and then. Reti them if necessary, but the vast majority of the time we find that they’re static and absolutely fine and can be left [00:02:00] alone. So it’s a real big efficiency boost for wind operators.  Joel Saxum: Well, you’re doing things by prescription now, right? Instead of just blanket cover, we’re gonna do all of this. It’s like, let’s work on the ones that actually need to be worked on. Let’s do the, the work that we actually need to, and instead of lugging, like we’re looking at the kit right here, and I can, you can hold the case in one hand, let alone the tools in a couple of fingers. As opposed to torque tensioning tools that are this big, they weigh a hundred kilos, and those come with all of their own problems. So I know that you guys said you’re, you’re focused here. You do a lot of work, um, in the offshore wind world as well. Yeah. I mean, offshore wind is where you add a zero right? To zeros. Yeah. Everything else is that much more complicated. It costs that much more. It’s you’re transitioning people offshore to the transition pieces. Like there’s so much more HSE risk, dollar risk, all of these different spend things. So. The Echo Bolt systems, these different tools that you have being developed and utilized here first make absolute sense, but now you guys are starting to go to onshore as well.  Pete Andrews: Yeah, that’s right. So I mean, as as you said, that there’s really [00:03:00] three main benefit areas we focus on. The first one is the health and safety of technicians, right? As you said, some of the fasteners used offshore now are up to MA hundred. So a hundred millimeter diameter bolts,  Joel Saxum: four inches for our American friends. Yeah, absolutely.  Pete Andrews: And they probably weigh. 30 kilos plus per bolt. Yeah. Um, so just the physical manual handling of that sort of equipment and the tightening equipment for those bolts is a huge risk for people. If you think 150 bolts lifting or maneuvering, the tooling around on on its own can cause all the problems. So as well as the inherent risk of the hydraulic kit failing. So occasionally we see catastrophic tool failure. Is, which have really high potential severity, you know, sort of tensioner heads ejecting or crush injuries from Tor. So that is really a key focus for our customers, just to [00:04:00] keep their teams safe, but also you have to be the cost effective and the the major cost benefit we allow is that we don’t have to revisit every bolt and every turbine like you’d have to do if you were retyping. So we believe there’s something of the order of a million pounds per installed gigawatt saving. By moving from a routine REIT uh, maintenance strategy to a focused condition based inspection, you significantly reduce the amount of intervention you make and keep your turbines running more and reduce the boots on the ground on the turbine. So three real kind of, um, key. Benefits for people adopting our technology  Allen Hall: because we routinely see tower bolts being reworked or retention depending on who the manufacturer is. And I’m watching this go on. I’m like, why are [00:05:00] we doing this? It seems, or the 10% rule, we’re tighten 10% this year, and they’ll come back and see how it’s going. That’s a little insane, right, because you’re just kind of. Tensioning bolts up to see if one of them has a problem and then you just do more of them and we’re wasting so much time because echo bolts figured this out years ago. You don’t need to do that. You can tell what the tension is in a bolt ultrasonically, which was the original technology, the first gen I’ll call it, uh, that you could tell the length of the bolt. If the length of the bolt is correct within certain parameters, you know that it is tension properly. If it’s shrunk, that probably means it’s not tensioned properly. That’s a huge advantage because you can’t physically see it. And I know I’ve seen technicians go, oh, I could take a hammer and I can tell you which ones are not tensioned properly wrong. Wrong. And I think that’s where equitable comes in because you’re actually applying a a lot of science simply [00:06:00] to a complex problem because the numbers are so big. Pete Andrews: Yeah, I mean that, that, that’s been the real. Driving force between our offering is to simplify it. So ultimately we’re based on a non-destructive testing technique. It’s an ultrasonic thickness checking technique, but when from the non-destructive testing background, it’s crack detection, people have time, they can be, it’s a very precision measurement. People have to be trained in the wind industry. We’re trying to inspect. A thousand, 2000 bolts a day at scale. It’s a completely different, um, ask of the technology and the way the technology has been developed historically has required too much technician expertise, too much configuration and set up time, and hasn’t delivered on the, on the speed that’s needed to be efficient in wind. And that’s where our bolt wave [00:07:00] unit we’ve, that we’ve developed over the last. 18 months, let’s say, where all of our focus has gone to make it as slick and as easy for a client technician to pick up with minimal training. It’s through an iOS interface. Everyone understands it intuitively. Um, it’s a bit like using the camera app on your phone. You know, you’re just hitting measure, measure, measure, measure, measure 10 seconds a bolt as you move the, um, ultrasonic transducer across, and then the data gets moved. Automatically to the cloud, to our bolt platform. And customers can view it in near real time. The engineer in the office can see the inspections happened. They can see if there are any anomalous bolts, and then there can be communication there and then whether an intervention is necessary. So it’s sort of really changed the way our customers think about managing their, um. They’re bolted joints.  Joel Saxum: Well, I think these are, these are the kind of innovations that we love to see, right? Because [00:08:00] we regularly talk about a shortage of technicians, and this isn’t, I was just learning this this week too, like this is not a wind problem. This is a everywhere problem. No matter what industry you’re in. Use are short of technicians. But we’re seeing like a tool like this is developed to be able to scale that workforce as well. Right. You don’t need to be an NDT level three expert to go and do these things. ’cause there’s a very few of those people out there. Right? Right. We know the NDT people, a lot of NDT people, and that’s a hard skillset to come by. Yeah. This can be put in the hands of any technician. Yeah, a quick training course. Just, Hey, this is how you use your iPhone. You can check Instagram, right? Yeah. Okay. You can off figure. Yeah, have fun. See you at lunch. Um, but they can, they can make this happen, right? They can go do these inspections and you’re getting that, that, uh, data collected in the field. Centralized back to an SME that’s looking at it and you don’t have to put that SME in the field and try to scale their ability to go and travel and do all these things. They can be in the office making sure that the, the QA, QC is done correctly. I love it. I think that that’s the way we need to go with a lot of things. [00:09:00]Uh, and you’re making it happen.  Pete Andrews: Yeah. And it’s a real kind of. F change in mindset for us. So originally when we started Ebot, we were using third party hardware. Yeah. Which required a bit of that specialism. Yeah. A bit of care about the setup of the project, getting multiple parameters configured before you got going. And it wasn’t really something we could put in the hands of a customer.  Joel Saxum: Yeah.  Pete Andrews: Which meant Ebot scale was limited to what our own team could go and do, and regionally as well. You know, so we’re UK based. Probably 60% of our customers are uk, but now we have this Northern Europe offshore wind is obviously on our doorstep, but then increasingly we’ve done more and more in North America, so we’ve probably been to five or six sites now in North America and expect that to be a growth market because we can, we can now ship the devices over there, give some virtual training help. Uh, [00:10:00] people set themselves up and then that opens up that market, you know, so it’s been a real change in strategy for us, but has allowed us to have far more impact than we otherwise would just try to be a pure service.  Allen Hall: Well, let’s talk about the big problem in the states of a minute, which are the root bushing or inserts that are loose in some blades. When you lose that pushing, you also lose the tension on the bolt that can be measured. Is that something you’re getting involved with quite a bit now because of just trying to determine how many bolts are affected and, and where we are on the safety scale of can we run this turbine or not? Is that something that EE bolt’s been looking into? Pete Andrews: Yeah, absolutely. So I, I’d say there’s sort of two halves of what we do. There’s the, there’s the bulk wholesale monitoring of. Typically static connections to eliminate this routine retitling where it’s not needed typically, typically. But then we have these edge cases of certain [00:11:00] connections and certain platforms that have known bolt integrity problems, and we are working with clients to really, um, manage those integrity risks. Blade stud is an absolute classic, you know, sort of, I think almost every turbine OEM on some, if not all of their platforms has got. Embedded risk into their blades, pitch bearing connections. Um, so yeah, exactly as you said, our customers are using the technology for two things really. One is to ensure the bolts have been tightened to the preload that was specified or the target window. And quite often we find there is an opportunity to increase the preload and therefore increase the resistance to fatigue failure. So. You know, particularly on older sites where the bolts perhaps not in the condition they were on day one. Well, they definitely won’t be. Um, when people have gone and retti them, they haven’t got back to where they, they should be.[00:12:00] So we can prove that and increase a bit of that resilience, but then also start to look for the segments around the joint where, um, the bolt might start loosening or failures are occurring, and find areas where they can really hone in. And actively manage risk. And that sort of leads to what we’ve decided to do for the next year, particularly with Blade Stud in mind, is evolve this technology. So whilst it’s also measuring the elongation, we will do a defect scan at the same time. So you’ll monitor your blade stu, um, connection and we’re hoping that we can set the device to flag to you there and then. We believe this bulk has got a defect while you’re here, get it changed out before it fails and, and all the knock on problems, um, from there. Joel Saxum: So what you’re just pointing to there is a, is a workflow, right? So to me that is typical [00:13:00] of some of the amazing, innovative companies in the UK that I’ve run into throughout my career. And that is, you’re a group of SMEs, you know, bolted connections. That’s what you do, right? But then you’re like, hey. If there’s a tool, we could make a tool that would make our lives a bit easier, then it’s like, well, we could make the entire industry’s lives a little bit easier as well. So let’s iterate on that. And now you’re able to send these kits around the world to look at these things. Hey, you have a problem with this specific model. We can help you with this because we know the failure mode and we know how to look for it. Let’s do that for you. Also here, you’re doing bolt bulk measurements. We got that for you. But it all kind of flows back to the fact that Echo Bolt is a team. A bolted connection, SMEs that are making tools and being able to also provide consulting if need be. Yeah. Right. Um, to, to an entire industry. And I think that, um, this is my take on it, right? Wind is stop number one. I think you guys are gonna do a fantastic year, but there’s a lot of, uh, opportunity out there in bolted [00:14:00] connections as well. Allen Hall: A tremendous amount blade bolts being broken from defects in the crystalline structure. What appears to be a more. Rapidly developing issue across fleets that I’ve seen. I went to a farm this summer and the number of blade bolts that were there on the table that were broken on the conference room table was And the whiteboard office. Yeah. Yeah. This one,  Joel Saxum: this one.  Allen Hall: Your hard head is not gonna protect you from this one. It’s, it’s, it was this, um, I couldn’t imagine the amount of time they were spending hunting these things down. And of course, the only way they were finding ’em was they were broken. You like to catch ’em before they break because it becomes  Joel Saxum: a safety risk. Just not too long ago we saw an insurance case where there’s an RCA going on and it is pointing at an entire tower came down. Right. And it is pointing at a mid, mid tower section bolted connection. How often do you guys run into those problems? Or are you contacted by insurance companies or anything like that to, to take a peek at those? Pete Andrews: We haven’t done anything directly for insurance [00:15:00]companies, but we have been engaged by. Engineering consultancies that are doing RCA type activities. Okay. Um, things like at the end of defect liability periods mm-hmm. A customer has, has seen, they’ve had a lot of, uh, issues from an OEM, maybe an OE EM has offered a modification or an upgrade, assessing whether that upgrade is actually solved the problem or not. We’ve got involved in, um, but the tower. Issue specifically. It’s actually very rare we find, um, problems with tower connections, but where we do is often where they haven’t achieved good flange flatness, ah, during installation or the bolts have been, let’s say, left out in the elements for a period and lubrication has been, has deteriorated before the bolt’s been installed. So there are cases out there, but what I would say is. [00:16:00] To think about your whole life cycle, so ensure the bolt’s installed correctly and we can help with that with a QA to say, yes, this torque or tightening method has got you to the load that you want. Do some through life monitoring, but often if you install it correctly, it will it’s operational life. You will have very little concern. But then in the UK market, we’re increasingly getting involved again at the end of life, right? Life extension where life extension turbines are 20, 25 years old. How does an operator make a decision to carry on running without replacing all bots? Um, and that’s where increasingly we being asked to use the technologist just to say, actually the joint is fine. The bolts have run in a good, um, operational envelope. Run them on. Don’t replace a hundred percent of them like you might have been recommended to from your, um, yeah. Turbine supplier side. [00:17:00] Allen Hall: So Pete, if someone’s doing a repower where they’re basically putting a new one in the cell on an existing tower, they’re making a lot of assumptions about all the bolts from the ground up that they’re gonna be okay. And I know we’re talking about that. We’re in a lot of installations where. If the turbine has gone through a repowered or two. So now those bolts are 20 years old. Yeah. And trying to get ’em to  Joel Saxum: 30 35. 35  Allen Hall: 40. Yeah. I don’t know what they’re doing. By those bolted connections. Are they just like replacing the bolts? Are they hitting ’em with a hammer again? Is that the, yeah,  Pete Andrews: I mean, they might replace ’em, but you’ve got a problem with the foundation bolts. ’cause they’re obviously often anchor bolts set into concrete, so you have to reuse them and. With the projects, both in wind and in process power industry with the chimney stacks to try and ascertain whether foundation bolts that are set into concrete are still suitable for operations. So look for corrosion losses, look for [00:18:00] defects. Um, so yeah, they’re all things that need thinking about before you just make the snap decision to repower. But I think  Joel Saxum: a lot of that, uh, going back to a couple minutes ago, you were talking about at the commissioning phase, making sure that you have proper qa, QC of how these things were installed day one, and then making sure that before commissioning of a turbine, they’re checked. I think that’s really important. We’re starting to see that in the blade world now too, where we’ve been talking about it for a long time, and now when you talk to operators, they’re like, we’re getting inspections done on the blades before they’re hung. Or at the factory before they’re hung. After they’re hung. Like they want a good foundation baseline. Are you seeing that in the bolted connection world too?  Pete Andrews: Yes. Sort of. It’s just emerging for us. What we’ve found is, so most of our customers are in the operational phase ’cause they are the ones feeling the pain. Yeah. Of the routine retitling work. When they do major components, they sometimes engage us to come and say, can you check [00:19:00] before and after the blade was removed? What was it? Before we took it off from a a bolt load perspective, what is it afterwards? Can you then recheck after 500 hours When we retalk it? And what we’ve seen there often is the initial install hasn’t got them to where they needed to be and they’ve had to go and do the break in maintenance or the 500 hour REIT to get the bolts to the right load. So one of the questions that we have is whether. Some of the defects are actually being initiated very early on in that initial running in period and whether if, if actually you’d taken the time at, at the point of assembly to make sure you were correct, whether that avoids some of the knock on integrity concerns. So yeah, it’s interesting area.  Allen Hall: Well, bolts are what hold wind turbines together and you better know you have the right. Tension and [00:20:00] torque on your bolts to get to the lifetime of the wind turbine and to, and to check it once in a while. And I know there’s a lot of operators I can think of right now in the United States that are sort of doing that job somewhat. I I think they have missed out on opportunities to save a lot of money and to call it echo bolt. How do people get ahold of you? Because that’s one thing I run into all the time. Like, Hey, hey, you gotta talk to Ebol, call Ebol. How do they get ahold of you?  Pete Andrews: So the easiest ways are via our website. Which is echo bolt.com. Um, LinkedIn, you’ll find us at Echo Bolt on LinkedIn. Reach out. Our email would be info@cobolt.com. So any of those route and you’ll, uh, reach me and the team and more than happy to speak to you about any of your faulting concerns or problems. We are, uh, yeah, we’re passionate about your problems.  Allen Hall: Pete, thank you so much for being on this podcast. I, it is great to actually see you in person and see the bolt wave technology. It’s really [00:21:00] impressive. So anybody out there that needs bolt tensioning to checking tools, you need to get ahold of Pete at Echo Bolt and get started today. Thank you Pete. Thanks guys. It’s great to be here.

The lads are back at practice, for the first time of this new season! Our...

HOUR 1: We already do it, sort of, through IVF. But is this taking it too far? full 2400 Tue, 13 Jan 2026 20:00:00 +0000 L9RCjwKIQlfbhOTb6A7WGBxnPi46bEO6 news The Dana & Parks Podcast news HOUR 1: We already do it, sort of, through IVF. But is this taking it too far? You wanted it... Now here it is! Listen to each hour of the Dana & Parks Show whenever and wherever you want! © 2025 Audacy, Inc. News False https://player

Seth & Sean have a Will Anderson Jr. segment circling around Sheldon Rankins' scoop-n-score.

This week, an ambivalent real estate agent smokes an e cigarette in "first class" and gives the plane a free peep show...---Yeeessss... The first of the 2026 live MFB 'Status: Arrested' Tour tickets are now on sale.Keep an eye out for more dates to be announced real soon.MELBOURNE - APRIL 11 - 1:30PM - BASEMENT COMEDY CLUB MICFMELBOURNE - APRIL 18 - 1:30PM - BASEMENT COMEDY CLUB MICFCody's show CRU$HER is hitting all major centres and more in 2026. He's back. It's red hot. Fuckin' do it. Stop going to shit comedians who charge double and deliver half.-----------------------------------YOUR STUPID has arrived. It's a book. It's a similar vibe to last year's one, but better. If you want a copy, head over to lukeheggie.com and stump up, and it will arrive via Australia Post. Any First Class Patrons, yours have been posted, (including the seppos - at great personal expense) but excluding the three bastards who have not provided an address, and seem to refuse to reply to emails. Sort it out. I'll bring some to live shows too. That is all.Heggie's 2026 show I WON'T SAY IT AGAIN is on sale now too. It's a hand-selected crack team of bits from the last five years. Get on it here.-----------------------------------Heggie dropped a FOURTH YouTube special, GROT, but still left the comments closed like a coward. Watch it here.Cody's new stand-up special "LIVE AT THE CORNER HOTEL" is OUT NOW on YouTubeHave a squizz and leave comments before he takes Heggie's cowardly route and turns off the comments. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The line between personal and creative is blurry at best. You are professional but you are also an artist required to move beyond the technical. Trust is sacrosanct and incredibly fragile. Be intentional, purposeful but not indulgent. The arrogance of opinion is defined when there is no humility. Let's talk about July 7th. Original Episode Number: 60 | Original Air Date: 7/13/2021 Links & Resources: Host: Sean Low of The Business of Being Creative Have your own opinion on Sean's tips and advice? Talk Back!! Email Shawn or record a voice message directly through his show's site! Link: Join Sean's Collective of Business Creatives Follow Sean on social media: Instagram: @SeanLow1 | Facebook: Facebook.com/Sean.Low.35 | LinkedIn | Twitter: @SeanLow — Podcast Network: The Wedding Biz Network Production House: Flint Stone Media Copyright of The Wedding Biz, LLC. 2021.

Andy and Randy bounce around to some of the bigger sports stories around Atlanta and nationwide.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, we have a re-air of the first episode of Live Like the World is Dying, an interview with Kitty Stryker about Anarchist Prepping. Kitty Stryker can be found on twitter at @kittystryker and at http://kittystryker.com/ Margaret Killjoy can be found on twitter at @magpiekilljoy and at http://www.birdsbeforethestorm.net/ Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness and Blue Sky @tangledwilderness.bsky.social You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness Transcript The following transcript was provided by a comrade who wants to help us make this show more accessible: S01E01 Kitty Stryker on Anarchist Prepping Live Like The World Is Dying #0:00:00.0# (Introductory music) #0:00:15.1# Margaret Killjoy: Hello and welcome to Live Like The World Is Dying; a podcast that explores life when it feels like the end times. I say "when it feels like the end times", and I'm gonna get into this more throughout various episodes of the podcast, because of course, the world is always ending. It's always changing the status quo. Always shakes and changes, collapses, rebuilds, all of these things. So sometimes people roll their eyes when you talk about the world ending. And sometimes that makes sense, the world has ended in a lot of different ways. But... It sure feels like the world is ending right now to me and to... Maybe to you and maybe it will, maybe it won't. Obviously what it means for the world to end is a subjective thing. But it's a... It's a stress factor to say the least, on a lot of people's lives right now. Thinking about climate change and thinking about the... The rise of global fascism. So this is a podcast that's gonna explore... Well, how we can live while we feel like the world is dying. For myself and for this podcast I've found that I focus on four different priorities. I focus on living like the world is going to end and that I might not survive, living like the world is going to end and I can try to survive, living like we can prevent the end of the world, and of course, living like maybe the world isn't ending after all. So basically hedonism, prepping, revolution, and not burning all your bridges because... Who knows, the status quo might linger on after all. With this podcast I'm probably going to focus on the middle two of these priorities. I'm gonna focus on prepping and revolution. And I'm going to do that because... Well, I've always sort of wanted there to be more information and more... More going on about anarchist and leftist prepping. Because most of the prepping world is of course steeped in... Not just like right-wing politics, but also right-wing values and individualistic values and of course as an anarchist I believe in the balance between the individual and the community and because of that I don't believe in individualistic survival. I don't believe that the bunker mentality, which we're going to talk a lot of shit on in this podcast over the next couple episodes, is appropriate to most... To most threat models. So I'll be your host, but for the most part I'm going to interview people who know a lot more about a lot of this stuff than me. As for me, I am a prepper I suppose on some level. I keep a small stockpile food. Dried food in 5 gallon buckets in case there's an interruption in... Well, food supplies. I make sure I know where water filtration is. I also keep a to-go bag and... At my house. And I keep another one in my car that's much smaller. Neither of these are a particularly elaborate. They're... They're fairly simple things I put together. And that's... That's more for my own mental welfare than it is like any immediate expectation of crisis. And I also... I live off grid. Which is not something that I'm gonna specifically advocate that anyone else do. I actually live off grid because it just sort of meets my needs here and now in terms of how I like to live. I live about half an hour away from a small city in a cabin I built myself in the woods because I like doing that. I like living that way. I'm an anarchist and that's going to certainly bleed over into the content of this show. I believe in a world without course of hierarchies like the state or capitalism or white supremacy or heteronormativity or... Or any of the intersecting oppressions and hierarchies that rule the world that shouldn't. And so of course, a lot of my... I tell you this because I want you to know my biases because I want you to come to your own conclusions. I have a bias against state and federal aid. I tend to find it to be wildly inefficient. I'm far more interested in creating a society based on mutual aid. And so... And I find agency to be wildly important. I find it very important for us to encourage each other to have agency and so I'm interested in disaster relief or crisis preparation or whatever, that maximizes individual agency, that maximize community agency and... Yeah, that's what's interesting to me so that's what I'm going to be focusing on more. This first episode, our guest is Kitty Stryker who I can let introduce herself. Thanks so much for listening. #0:05:01.9# (Musical transition) #0:05:06.5# Margaret: So today our guest is Kitty Stryker. Well actually, do you want to introduce yourself with your name and pronouns and kind of any political or organizational affiliation you feel like shouting out. #0:05:21.4# Kitty Stryker: Sure. I'm Kitty Stryker, I use she/her pronouns. I'm a... I identify myself as a leftist doomsday prepper. But I'm more of a like... Emergency prepper, street medic. I work with Struggle Of Circus, which is a of bunches of leftists and other sort of radical political groups and a bunch of juggalos coming together to help out at protests and usually do medic related stuff but also be kind of a meat wall around marginalized communities. I identify as an anarchist and... Yeah, I guess I just found it really interesting that when I was looking for communities of leftist to talk to about prepping, there wasn't anything there. #0:06:15.5# Margaret: Yeah that was... I think we ended up kind of finding each other through a similar... I don't actually remember how we first ended up talking about it. Maybe you do. But we've been, for anyone who's listening, Kitty and I have been talking vaguely about how we needed to do something about this... This lack of... #0:06:34.2# Kitty: Lack of information, yeah. #0:06:35.9# Margaret: Yeah. Because so much of the information that's out there about prepping is not really applicable, well, to anyone realistically. But certainly not necessarily applicable to people whose ideology isn't "fuck you, I've got mine", you know? So... #0:06:53.5# Kitty: Right and I think... And it could be actively hostile in forums and stuff. Like places that you wanna go to ask for information and ask for advice become really hostile when people are talking about how much they want to kill antifa or of like... "I can't wait til the race war". It's not really a very comfortable place to ask questions about fortifications. #0:07:19.5# Margaret: Yeah. That makes sense. So why don't we start by kind of talking about the general conception of preparedness and kind of what is leftist or anarchist prepping or preparedness. As... At least as you can conceive it. #0:07:37.7# Kitty: Sure, well, so for me I grew up with parents who are sort of like... Suburban homesteader types, with a mixture of prepping. But are also hoarders so while they have everything you would need in an apocalypse you also wouldn't necessarily be able to find it. So I kinda grew up with the hoarding tendency that they think comes with a lot of prepping. You wanna have lots of things that seemed very important. But also this desire to try to make it organized and make it easily accessible. I realized fairly quickly that while I'm more of a stay-in-place kind of prepper and sort of emergency preparedness person, I also will potentially need to be able to put what I need a backpack and carry it with me. At least for a mile or two depending on the emergency and if I have so much stuff that I can't practically do that without a car, it's not really going to be that useful. I live in earthquake country so I just have to anticipate the roads are going to be kind of a mess. So that was sort of where I came from, was this not very political, camping and also very pagan, getting in touch with earth kind of thing. Like my parents beehives that drives all of their neighbors off the wall. They hate it. #0:09:12.7# Margaret: That's interesting. I've only a couple times been around this, yeah, suburban homesteading idea where you have access to a little bit of land. Not necessarily so much privacy, not so much... Place where you can keep your bees. #0:09:24.5# Kitty: Nope, no privacy. Everyone in my neighborhood is like, "That's the witch house. You can tell because there's thirteen sacred trees in the front lawn. And her dad goes outside and scythes the lawn." #0:09:38.1# Margaret: Wow. #0:09:39.7# Kitty: I don't think he's actually even done that in years so I think it's just an overgrown tangle at this point. #0:09:45.9# Margaret: Well that's even more fun. #0:09:46.7# Kitty: But we have like... We have a pond in there. There's a little herb garden, a veggie garden. We have a crow feeder. It's... It's elaborate. #0:09:56.8# Margaret: I'm imagining this on like a quarter acre, half acre. Is that..? #0:10:00.5# Kitty: Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. With manicured lawns right next to us on either side. #0:10:08.5# Margaret: Well, that's a... #0:10:09.1# Kitty: Really... That's where I was raised. I think that explains a lot. #0:10:13.7# Margaret: Okay. It's an interesting metaphor for being the one person who's... You know, either prepping or being a hoarder. #0:10:22.4# Kitty: I've been the one person for a while. Yeah. But I think that that's in such staunch contrast to doomsday preppers which is what most people think of when they think of prepping. They think of like, "Oh, that's those rednecks in the middle of the really rural areas with their bunker and their nine million guns and their giant water containers." And they're, you know, being completely convinced that there's going to a nuclear war or there's going to be... I don't know. What are some of the other disasters that they're always prepared for? Well, I mean like, definitely race wars. Definitely one of the things. #0:11:09.1# Margaret: Yeah, I mean and that's kind of the... I feel like that's the tell between whether you're talking to a racist prepper or a... Well, obviously if someone's talking about a race war they're clearly racist. But... You know, there's a tell of whether or not they're obsessed with like the... The boogaloo or if they're obsessed with... You know, the possibility of invasion or... System collapse in general. #0:11:32.3# Kitty: Right, right. And like what system collapse looks like. Like what are they actually afraid of, I think is very telling. A lot of times you'll see people say, "Oh, I'm afraid that people are going to come and murder my family for my resources because my resources are so awesome that everyone for miles around is going want to come and murder me." Which, first of all, if that was true I would not be saying it on the internet. That just seems like a bad idea. That's... My boyfriend and I watch doomsday preppers and talk about how we would raid their bunkers because they show us everything. And that just seems very shortsighted, if that is indeed what you are worried about. #0:12:22.2# Margaret: Right, as compared to just kind of showing off and being excited about... Like kind of nerding out about gear... #0:12:27.6# Kitty: I think it's like... Yeah, it's like nerding out and they think it's more of a threat than it is. I don't know. I think... I think it speaks to a desire for conflict that I don't personally have. I don't want to have to use my apartment complex to snipe people. I just don't want to do that. I just wanna be able to grow a garden using a discarded... Shoe organizer from the broken down Ross down the street. That's my type of prepping, rather than preparing for endless violence. #0:13:10.4# Margaret: Yeah, there's kind of a... I feel like one of the main myths or concepts that I'm trying to get across with this podcast... Not a myth I'm trying to get across this, prove that something is a myth, is the bunker mentality is the "I've got mine, fuck you" mentality, that is so common in prepping circles and it's... It's really off-putting because... I mean, even... Even from a pure self-interest point of view it just seems so dumb. So you hole up with your five closest friends in the middle of the woods during the apocalypse, and that's like all fine and good until your appendix bursts and you forget that you're not a surgeon and that your brother isn't a surgeon, you know? And... #0:13:56.0# Kitty: Well you just need more useful friends. #0:13:57.9# Margaret: Well, sure but... #0:13:58.7# Kitty: That's what I did. #0:13:59.2# Margaret: But what if you are the surgeon, right? And then your appendix bursts. #0:14:02.4# Kitty: Well, yeah. Then... Yeah. Then... Then... Well, then you just die. I mean, that's the thing. I think that they... They're so afraid of violence coming from other people that they don't... A, think of the violence that could happen amongst themselves which is kind of inevitable if you're locked in a bunker together. And there's... Especially if there's power dynamics in place and stress, then I feel like there's gonna be some abusive dynamics that come out of that. So if you're not prepared for that, it doesn't really matter how good your resources are. And there's... So that's just even within your unit, and then never mind if you're then expanding out to like... Do you know how to do literally everything in the world? Because you're probably going to help. It's the same as the idea about currency. Everyone's so keen on like... Oh yeah, make sure that you have currency. Make sure you silver buried in your yard. Like... What are you going to do with that, really? Like... I mean... It's cool, I guess. But unless you're going to use that as a brick... I don't understand. #0:15:12.3# Margaret: Well I guess it gets into... In some ways, I think the apocalypse... People who think too much about the apocalypse, whether on they're on the left or on the right, or just bored centrists or moderates or whatever, I think that people are thinking about and imagining clean slates and imagining about how they would like to act and what kind of societies they would like to create, what kind of dynamics they'd like to create. So it's really easy for someone who, say of a libertarian mindset, to be like "Well, of course gold is what matters because we're all going to trade resources. There's definitely going to be market economics after the apocalypse because we're going to institute market... Economics. And then maybe like... Those of us that are like, "Wow, the market's a dumb thing and isn't really particularly interesting to me at all." Like, yeah I have a really hard time imagining that I'm going to be doing much... Even bartering after the apocalypse. Like, I'm... I'm either like rolling with people and sharing shit or I'm keeping shit to myself but like... I'm not gonna be like, "Well, these three bullets are worth that tourniquet," or whatever, you know? At least that's my conception of it. That's when... When I like to imagine the end of the world, which is not actually something I like imagining anymore, but I'm imagining something that is closer to the ideological interest that I have. Which is maybe a fault of mine, maybe that's a blind spot of mine. #0:16:39.5# Kitty: Well, I don't think that's... I don't think it's necessarily a fault. I mean, like one thing that I think when... You know, I have a group friends that we talk about this stuff a lot amongst ourselves. Especially because we're within bicycling distance from each other, so we're sort of like, "Okay, if there is an emergency, we're pretty sure that we could get to each other." But we all have... Slightly different ideas of what we would like to see happen which means we also have a different... Like different ideals and different areas of expertise. And I think that that is actually super helpful. I don't know that I would want to be in a group that everybody thinks the same way, as long as you think cooperatively versus competitively. And for me that's what's important. I don't really care how we get to cooperative instead of competitive, but that's what I want. #0:17:33.5# Margaret: Yeah, that makes sense. So, look, I want to talk more about... Okay, one of the things I really like about prepping in general is that it can be very practical. It's not, it's... Obviously a lot of it is not practical at all. But like... But to take this conversation practically for a minute... Like, what you do... Not necessarily... Both in terms of things that you keep around, but also what are your plans? You talked about bicycling to meet up with your friends. What is... What kind of preparedness do you personally practice? #0:18:05.4# Kitty: So my boyfriend and I talk a lot about what our plans are. Pretty much every three months or so. And we're mostly... And ust to give some context, we're mostly prepping for an earthquake, for a big earthquake, because that's the most likely thing to happen here. I guess there's some possibilities that will end up having a bunch of neo-nazis coming and terrorizing us but I think they've gotten tired of Berkeley and have moved to Portland instead so... We're probably fine for now. So we talk a little bit about what are the risks that are current, what are the resources that are currently around? Maybe... We've been talking about creating a map, like actually getting a map and write, marking down important things that we might want to know where they are when you don't have Google Maps for example. So stuff like that is really important. Like the sort of... Preparing... For immediate needs and also for where you are going to be able to get resources. What area is around that could conceivably be turned into a garden if need be. Which we're actually lucky, we have a park really close by. And we also make a point to know our neighbors. Both our housed and houseless neighbors. So having good relationships with them is really helpful and like giving them ideas of how to be prepared so that we're not overwhelming ourselves trying to take care of them as well as ourselves. So you're trying to match up add the younger folks with older folks or able-bodied folks with people with disabilities so that way there's... It's easier for people to mobilize and so that we know who in our area is going to need help. So that's some of the community planning stuff that's not even focused on my group of hyper-focused friends but just making my environment less chaotic. And so that's sort of like... And again, like a garden, it takes some pruning and some cultivating and a little bit of upkeep but I feel reasonably confident that my neighbors are going to be able to handle themselves. Which is my first big concern because then I can start worrying about things like, what do I personally actually need? One thing that is kind of difficult, I live in an apartment and we don't have a huge amount of space. So I can't have buckets and buckets of freeze-dried food. We do tend to have a lot of canned food, we do tend to have a lot of nuts and dried fruit and stuff like that around so that helps a little bit. It makes it easier for us to find stuff in rubble that we can eat. We also have a... A dresser that we put our prepper stuff in and it's sorted with medic supplies in the first two drawers because that's sort of my specialty... That's my area focus. And then we have sort of more general supplies, so that's where we have LifeStraws and we have bandanas and we have masks for filtering out smoke or disease. We have lots and lots of gloves, we have... Water filtering tablets, we have a bunch different kinds of fire starters. So we sort of put together a compendium of things that we felt would be useful. And then what's probably the least practical thing is my... In the main living room I have a hatchet, I have a walking stick, I have my camping stuff. So it's not all condensed in one place but I have... I do have a spare tent at my partner's house and I have a medic bag. A fully packed medic go-bag that I take to protests in the trunk of my car. So that way I can... I have one medic bag in the house, I have one in the car, and I usually have one at my partner's house. Sometimes I have one at my local bar too but that's the one that usually get used if I go to a protest 'cause that's near downtown. But just having pockets stuff... And then I have a storage unit downtown as well. So I figured it might be more difficult to get into my storage unit but at least it's underground and that would be not a bad place to have some stuff that I don't need immediately but might want down the line, yeah. So... But it's sort of a pack rat... Pack ratty, squirrel type prepping. Of burying little caches... #0:23:27.8# Margaret: I'm impressed because you're... Yeah, you're managing to successfully do in an urban environment what... Well... Something I associate more with the rural environments of... You know, one of the things that I was realizing... #0:23:41.1# Kitty: It's harder. It's harder, but it's only harder if you care about being the only person who can get to it. And I don't really care so much about that. I just wanna have access to it. I'm... Because, for me, I'm someone who... I saw a guy on a scooter get hit by car. I was so glad I had that medic kit on me so that I could actually help him out. And immediately help him out. I'm so glad I had that expertise. So... And actually that's one thing that I also have is a first aid book because, again, I don't know how to do everything. But if I have a book, I can probably figure out how to do most things safely. So... #0:24:26.7# Margaret: What's the book? #0:24:29.4# Kitty: It's an old field manual medic guide, I forget what era. But I prefer to try to go for stuff that's military because... Or serious environmental wilderness strategy guides because then they're not focused on you having access to a full hospital. It's not ideal conditions. Sometimes first aid advice is like, "Oh well just call an ambulance" and it's like well that's not really practical in the sort of situations I'm preparing for so I prefer to look at older stuff. And then take newer knowledge and pack that on top. But knowing how to do some of these things when you don't have electricity, a lot of modern medicine depends on electricity, depends on you having access to different kinds of medications and solutions that might not have. So I think it's kind of... I don't... Until I have to do it in practice I don't know how useful it actually will be. But I'm interested in learning how have people prevented disease... In wartime, in... A forest in the middle of nowhere versus what you you would get trained necessarily if you're getting CPR training for your work. #0:26:08.8# Margaret: Have you taken the wilderness first responder course or anything like that? #0:26:12.4# Kitty: I want to so badly. I'm hoping that I can save up for it or have somebody gift it to me. But that is on my list of, oh my god I would... That be so dreamy. But... I really... I just also am just also am obsessed with medical stuff. I guess that's... That's one thing I would really recommend for people curious about prepping. I would say while it is nice to be able to have information about a bunch of different areas, find the thing that you're really interested and nerd out on that. One of my friends is really, really into finding plants and urban foraging. So that's her area of expertise. It's like, oh, she can tell you every plant you can eat within two miles of your house. And that would be really useful, it's not necessarily something that my brain can hold onto... As easily as medicine stuff. My partner is really good with weapons and... Building shelters. It's not really my area so it's nice to have somebody who can teach me just enough but also has a lot more expertise. #0:27:29.4# Margaret: Yeah, that's something that I... I think about a lot in terms of even just the world I wanna live in. I'm really excited about the idea where we... Instead of having a generalism versus specialization kind of argument, it's another bullshit false dichotomy, probably we should all as much as we can generalize as broadly as we can and then pick the things that stand out to us to specialize in. Like, I don't need to know how to do surgery but I should probably know first... Literal first aid. Like first response... Like there have been a number times in my life where I've... I'm incredibly squeamish, I hate medical things, I hate thinking about it the way that like... Like someone showed me how to use a tourniquet and... You know, I disassociated in order to learn. Because the concept of thinking about like... Arterial bleeding doesn't work for me. But I know that I need to know how to do that so I learn pretty much by disassociating and then kind of when things happen I like disassociate again and then deal with it. #0:28:34.6# Kitty: Yeah, I mean there's some practicality to that. When I was doing medical work at protests I really underestimated how traumatized I was until months later... When I was like, "Wow, I just didn't have feelings for a while." It's a lot and I'm... I love... See, I'm not squeamish at all about that stuff but I'm impatient so like building structures is not my thing. It's like, I could learn how to do it but I don't even put up the tent when I go camping if I can avoid it. So... Knowing that I have a good solid group of people around me who are really excited to do that stuff allows us to do the thing we're excited about but also in case something happens to that person, we know how to do it we just don't like it. #0:29:26.1# Margaret: Yeah. Or at least have a... Can do a rougher version of it, you know? Can do a... I had a... I was just talking to a friend about all of this. I actually don't remember if it's... I'm recordings these interviews out of order from how they're going to play. So I was talking to a friend of mine who's a... A medical professional and he was talking about how in a crisis situation if you have two people, maybe what you want is a nurse and a world class generalist, you know? As like the two people that you need. #0:29:58.8# Kitty: Pretty much. I think having a medic... Like I think everyone should have basic medical training, just basic shit, because that way anybody can do an emergency... Like, okay, "I can put gauze on this and stop the bleeding." That's what I need from people. And every time I go to a protest, people are asking what they could do to help and I'm like, "Just do that. Just do that, only." And help people with sprained ankles and keep them hydrated. 'Cause if you can do all of that then I can focus on stitching someone's head together. That's what I need to be able to be focused on because I'm not the squeamish one. So... Yeah, I think that helps a lot. Also coming up with things for you to do, that gets ignored a lot on prepper forums. At least the ones I've been on. They talk a lot about like, you know, "Okay, you've gotta have all of this foraging skills and you gotta have shelter building and you gotta have all these supplies in order to make all of this stuff," but there are no downtime options. And you're gonna have downtime sometimes. Like you're gonna get sick eventually, if nothing else. So make sure you have stuff to keep your mind busy during those times. 'Cause watching "Alone" for example, I don't know if you've ever seen that one but they put these people by themselves in the middle of the... Was it Canadian wilderness I think for at least the first couple of seasons? And they have to do everything from scratch. They have some supplies on them and a good supply list. But they have to pick like... 1 of 10 items, or 10 different items out of a list of like... pre-approved 50 different things they can have. So have to do a lot of stuff by themselves. And almost every single time the thing that gets to them is just a lack of food and boredom. And if they can keep themselves busy, somehow, like making music or making art or building... Like adding decorations to their shelter, then the fact that they're hungry doesn't bother them so much. But if they don't have anything like that, they're not creative in any way, then the fact that they're hungry literally gnaws away at their brain. So I just think that's a really interesting aspect... Like thinking a lot about mental health in an emergency scenario because I think that gets ignored with a lot of right-wing prepping forums and stuff like that. #0:32:53.6# Margaret: Yeah. Yeah I wonder what... I feel like there's just the deck of card, is what's written about in all the things. #0:33:03.3# Kitty: Yeah, it's always recommended. Always have a deck of cards. #0:33:05.8# Margaret: Which is like... You can tell that they wrote that in the 50's or whatever, you know? #0:33:10.1# Kitty: Right, in that... Part of it's gonna be like, "Oh, like for gambling in order to entertain yourself if... Gambling with the no money that you have. I don't know. It's just... I would much prefer to have... I don't know, Codenames or something. Endless replayability. #0:33:31.2# Margaret: Yeah, I feel like there's a... #0:33:32.1# Kitty: I mean, but... #0:33:32.8# Margaret: Go ahead. #0:33:32.8# Kitty: Let's be honest, I'd be playing Dungeons & Dragons. In my tracker tent as an actual ranger. Playing Dungeons & Dragons. #0:33:45.2# Margaret: You wouldn't play... What's the opposite of it? The dragons play, they play... Humans and Houses? #0:33:51.3# Kitty: Oh, yeah, maybe that too. I don't know, mix them up. Mix them together. #0:33:56.3# Margaret: You'd have roleplaying about what would you do if apartments still existed or whatever? #0:34:00.4# Kitty: Yeah. #0:34:02.7# Margaret: I think that... #0:34:03.3# Kitty: I mean, I guess I don't... I'm not that scared of that. It would be uncomfortable and I'd probably hate it a lot. I'm a house cat. But, you know, I'm not that worried about it either. And I think part of it is because I just made being prepared, knowing where my go-bag is at all times just part of my day-to-day existence. So it's just muscle memory at this point. #0:34:32.8# Margaret: Yeah. Earlier in our pre-conversation, when we talked about what we might talk about, one of the things you brought up is the ableism that exists in a lot of prepping conversations and I was wondering if you wanted to talk more about that. #0:34:46.0# Kitty: Yeah, so I noticed that a lot of discussions on what your go-plan is involves being able to walk long distances. Presumably because they figure walking a long enough distance would get you to area of wilderness, that they feel would be more suitable. I... That is really impractical for a large number of people. People with small children are going to struggle with that. Elderly people are going to struggle with that. People with disabilities are going to struggle with that. Some people with disabilities aren't going to be able to do that. It won't even be just a struggle, it's just impossible. So I think the... We need more diverse resources and we need to talk seriously about how to make this accessible for people who aren't in their... Super hyper fit, in their 30's, ready to charge over a mountain. And in the bay area you could you could walk for eight hours and I don't know that you would find a bit of wilderness... So I don't think that's necessarily the most practical option for all people. #0:36:08.7# Margaret: it's funny to me that all this stuff about going to the wilderness because I live in... Not the wilderness but I very rurally. I live in a house that I built at the end of a... Beyond the end of a gravel road like every stupid stick of my fucking cabin I had to carry up a hill on my back. I actually started building it with a chronic injury and then managed to... Physical therapy my way... This isn't a... Statement about ableism, just the weird stupid shit of building this fucking cabin I live in. #0:36:40.6# Kitty: But looks really cool. #0:36:43.0# Margaret: But there's... Thanks, yeah, no I'm really proud of it and it's funny because actually it's a brilliant place to live during civilization. But if there were some kind of crisis, I would probably get my to-go bag or my car presumably but let's pretend like that's not an option for whatever reason, and I would walk to the city. Because the city is where people are and that is where we can keep each other safe. I think people have this conception of... That people are a danger and that's true, people are dangerous, right? But the wilderness is really fucking dangerous too. And... #0:37:23.7# Kitty: People really underestimate how dangerous the wilderness is. They underestimate how cold it is. The cold will kill you, the wet will kill you. #0:37:34.4# Margaret: Yeah and so getting to... I don't know for certain, it would really depend on the threat, but I would presumably go to a place of higher population so that we collectively can figure out what the fuck to do. And maybe the fact that I have access to certain resources by living on land can become useful to people. And that would be my hope. I could easily imagine a situation where you have, as part of your prepping, you would have... The rural... With rural living access to space. You don't necessarily have access to anything else but you often have access to space and... So you can store tractors and you can store strange devices... Like devices that have very odd and specialized purposes for building or something like that. But then again, the thing I'm slowly learning is that cities have all of those things too. It's just that not necessarily each individual is going to own them. Because not everyone lives on a farm. #0:38:36.4# Kitty: Right. The city owns it or the government owns it. But yeah, there's plenty of parking lots. #0:38:42.5# Margaret: Yeah, that's true. #0:38:45.8# Kitty: So... Yeah. I mean, like... Oh, god. I'm trying to remember what the name of the show was. So I... I watch a lot of prepping and wilderness survival based shows. Somewhat to remind myself that nature is dangerous and also because I find them very amusing. And there was one that was... It wasn't entirely clear if it was a reality show or if it was scripted or both. Pretty sure it was both, but they were in LA. And I forget what they had decided ... The LA one I don't think it was a disease. They had a different calamity happen each season. And in the first season they had a good variety of people. They had several mechanics, they had a couple of nurses and doctors. They had martial arts teachers. So they had a good cross-section of people. And they did decently well surviving in a big warehouse in LA and came up with some incredibly inventive weapons and things. I remember they created a flame thrower out of bits of an old car which was stunning to watch. But then the second season they were in New Orleans, in some of the areas that have been devastated by Katrina. And they had underestimated how swampy it was and how hard it was going to be to get food and how there were tons of snakes and alligators that we're going to kill you. And also that one had a disease element so every once in a while someone would get claimed by a contagious disease and they would just start disappearing. But the thing that really got to them I think is that they didn't have a very diverse group of people. They had a lot of schoolteachers and artists and that's great, that's important stuff, but if they don't have any trade skills as well, they're gonna drop like flies. So it's really important to take your creative energies and learn how to do something that can embrace that but also has a living purpose. #0:41:12.1# Margaret: Yeah. Yeah, as a generalist I think about that where most of my skills are graphic design and audio which is great when you want to start a podcast, if you have been doing electronic music for twenty years or whatever, you know? But I think I've really consciously been working on developing my skills that are not only on a computer, you know? For kind of this purpose. #0:41:39.1# Kitty: Well, hey. Electronic music and audio says to me, making ham radios. Practical and useful. There's always something there, it's just like finding what those things are. Though I will say this, the first season in the warehouse in LA they had a big issue with masculinity. #0:42:04.7# Margaret: I only watched the second season. #0:42:05.4# Kitty: Everybody was... #0:42:06.9# Margaret: I watched the one where they all... #0:42:07.5# Kitty: The first one is great. It's like all these male mechanics shouting at each other about how to fix something better and then this female mechanic just goes and does it. #0:42:16.8# Margaret: Yeah, that sounds like a perfect metaphor. #0:42:19.1# Kitty: And then they when they all brag about how proud that they came up with this idea and she just rolls her eyes and you're just like, "Yup, that's how it would be pretty much." And that said to me a lot about mediation. Knowing how to mediate, knowing your own triggers. Like knowing your own mental health stuff so that you can then navigate other people's mental health stuff. That's also super important. And easy for anybody to do. #0:42:44.9# Margaret: Yeah, yeah I think knowing different organization models. Like I think knowledge and facilitation is a really important skill. I think people basically pick whichever organizational model seems to be practical when the existing larger structure goes away. And I've been in spaces where we haven't been sure how we're going to organize ourselves and I'm surrounded by a bunch of non-anarchists and then I'm like, "Well here's this model where we're all equals but we still actually figure things out." And it just works as compared to I'm pretty sure if someone had been like, "Here's the model, I'm pretty much in charge." And maybe it'll be like some veneer of democracy where he'll be like, and I'm just going to use 'he' for this imaginary patriarch... #0:43:28.5# Kitty: I wonder why. #0:43:29.7# Margaret: He'll be like, "I'm in charge and the we can have a little vote about that if we wanna prove that I'm in charge," you know? And everyone will be like, "Well, he's the one who is offering to get shit done." And what... Of course what people fail to realize is that's like... We get shit done, collectively. Whether it's collectively we do it and someone is taking the credit by being up top, you know? Or whether we do it... So that's one of the things that I think about with prepping. How to... And I think that's maybe one of the things that right-wing preppers are afraid of is they're like... They don't have... The only people skills that they know is this hierarchical system. Well, I guess there's plenty of leftists who also only seem to know hierarchical systems. But... #0:44:13.2# Kitty: I mean it's a pretty... It's a pretty common system. That's why... That's why I kind of enjoy the, everybody gets to be an expert in their own thing so that nobody is super... Nobody can be too pleased with themselves. Keeps everybody humble, I think. #0:44:34.3# Margaret: Yeah. So the one other main question that I... Or thing that I kinda wanna hash out with you for this which is probably gonna be the first episode, everyone who's listening will know whether or not it's the first episode. It will be very embarrassing if this is the seventeenth episode, but... Maybe talk about different threat models. That's... How we we determine what we need, of course, is dependent on what we think is likely to happen and as there's no one-size-fits all. And so you say the primary threat model that you're working with is a natural disaster. Do you want to talk about that or do you want to talk about other threat models or... #0:45:12.8# Kitty: Sure. Well, I think... Okay, a great example is the things that I want for a earthquake is not necessarily what I would want in a tsunami, right? Those are very different natural disasters. As somebody who grew up in hurricane country-ish, you know, it was just really really wet. And having a dust mask would not have helped me in any way. But I would be at much more risk of getting trench foot so that would be like, waterpreoof boots would be way more important. So some of it's knowing your environment and being aware of what your environmental concerns ar. Like living in a city, asbestos is a big fundamental concern. So having dust masks is really important. I feel like I read once that most deaths aren't... In an earthquake, come from inhaling the debris. And that... That causes some of the worst injuries because there's just all of this dust everywhere and... I know that was definitely true with the fires. A lot of people have... Still have some... Some still have breathing problems now from the various fires that were going on in Northern California. So knowing what you need to be concerned about. Like with earthquakes, knowing that the roads might not be super useful to drive on. So having alternative plans for that knowing where your bike paths are. Knowing... If you have a wheelchair for example, maybe thinking of a way to add some tread on your wheelchair might be a practical option. I have a beach cruiser. It's not a racing bike by any means but it's heavy and it's easy to find the parts. And it's really easy to fix myself, that's why I chose that. So thinking about what you can actually do, I think is helpful in figuring out your... Your strategy. I know that I don't know enough about my car to be able to completely dismantle it. However, I do know somebody who does know enough about my car to do that. So I can bike to him and then have him do that. So coming up with those kind of like, "Okay, if this then this, if this then this" strategies helps me at least, I have a very ADHD brain. It helps me have a... A process to go through. Now in California, earthquakes are a big concern especially in this area but fire is also a big concern. And the way I would prepare for a fire versus an earthquake, I would be more concerned about my paperwork disappearing in a fire than an earthquake. Though to be completely honest I'm not that fussed about my paperwork in general. I don't think getting rid of paperwork is the worst plan. But that's not what the government wants to hear from me. So I have... I have some paperwork in a folder that's easy to access if I need to grab something go because my apartment is burning but I wouldn't be as... I wouldn't care much about that if it was an earthquake because in my consideration there would will be enough of a drastic interruption in services for an earthquake that I don't think that that would be an immediate need. #0:49:16.3# Margaret: Yeah and you wouldn't certainly be the only one who has lost their paperwork. 
#0:49:20.4# Kitty: Right, exactly. Exactly. And again, I think that we use paperwork as a penalty for so many people that... Maybe mucking up that system a little bit is a convenient little thing I can do on the side. So I... Yeah, I guess... And all of that is completely separate from thinking of having invaders come and try to take my apartment away from me or something. That... I usually strategise for that by thinking about what my plan are if the cops get even more out of control. #0:50:02.9# Margaret: Right. Like fascist takeovers is on my... On my threat model list, you know? #0:50:08.9# Kitty: Yeah, yeah, totally. And you know... The cops have been pretty shitty around here for quite a while, so... You know, it's been a slowly increasing... Plan. But I mean... For me, I'm not interested in trying to shoot my way through the cops. I have no problem with people who that is their plan, I think it's great that there are people who are inclined that way, but I'm gonna go full rogue. I'm sneaky. I'm going to go to the sewers. I'm not as... I'm not as interested in that kind of direct conflict. So my model for that... Or like my managements for that would be really, really different from natural disasters. And I kind of feel like that are all the things that might actually happen. I mean, I guess a meteor could hit but... Eh. The prepping I do for every other disaster would be fine for that probably. Or I'd be dead. And wouldn't care. So... How about you? What are your... What's your threat model? #0:51:23.0# Margaret: So I live on a floodplain. It's not supposed to be a floodplain but global warming has made it a floodplain. And the mountains... When I first moved to the mountains, I grew up in the foothills, and when I moved into the mountains it... It kind of blew my mind that flooding is a problem because in my mind I'm like, "Well, everything is high up" and actually flooding is at least as much of a problem in... Well, the flooding is a problem in a lot different places, you know hurricanes cause floods, but flash floods in the mountains are very real especially in an era of mountaintop removal mining. which is not immediate thing immediately around me but it certainly affects places within a couple hours of where I live in Appalachia. But, you know, storms... Like the weather patterns are just changing dramatically and by living in rurally I'm not as defended against that in some ways because there's not a large crew of people working to try and figure out how to make sure that the little place that I live is... Is safe. And so we have to do it to whatever... Because you're not supposed to mess with of waterways, we have to do it through the state and all that, but in the meantime our land floods. And so... It flooded a couple days ago and I had to go out and try and prevent it from getting worse through whatever means. And... And I actually had this moment, you're talking about paperwork, I started walking into this flood with my wallet in my pocket. And then eventually realized that that was a bad idea. My wallet does not need to be in my pocket. I'm not going to get asked for my papers or need to purchase anything while I'm walking into this flood and... And so it's a... So natural disaster is like the top... Climate change affecting everything is my top threat model where I live. But fascist takeover is on there and fascist takeover... Is a really different set of problems. #0:53:42.9# Kitty: Yeah. And it's different kind of... #0:53:43.8# Margaret: And a lot of it still comes down to knowing your neighbors. #0:53:46.1# Kitty: It's a different set of prepping as well. It's a totally different set skills. #0:53:50.8# Margaret: Yeah. And I mean there's... And one of the things I was thinking about is... The thing I was really... That I realized, a lot of my... I've spent a lot of my life living outdoors. I was a traveling anarchist living out of a backpack, and I was a forest defender and was a squatter and I lived in a van, and now I live in a cabin. Almost half my life I've lived out... Off grid, essentially. And I was thinking how when in February I'm waist and sometimes chest deep in water, I was thinking how glad I am that just kind of by default prefer certain types of practical clothes. It's funny 'cause I... Most of the time... I built my house wearing a dress. But when I'm like, "Okay it's rainy," and I put my puffy vest and my waders, my muck boots, and wool socks. And I wasn't nearly as concerned about hypothermia, which is a major problem in floods especially in February, just because I wasn't wearing much cotton. And it's funny like because I never think about my outdoors skills. Like how to start a fire with tinder and flint and steel and all that. That's not... I don't really see a version of the world where I'm living in the woods alone and hunting squirrels and whatever the fuck, you know? But there are gonna be moments where I might be like... Needing to not get hypothermia while I'm trying to clear up a dam that's forming or whatever. #0:55:26.9# Kitty: Yeah, yeah. Two pairs of wool socks should be on everyone's list in their go bag for sure. #0:55:34.3# Margaret: Yeah, I keep a second vest... #0:55:35.7# Kitty: And the more wool clothing you have the better. #0:55:39.4# Margaret: But what's funny is than I was thinking that through when you're talking about fires, I was thinking about California, I was like... Well, actually the same clothes that are really good in flood and maybe a tsunami are not good in fire. You don't want to wear synthetic in a fire situation. So... But over all... #0:56:00.1# Kitty: But you actually do wanna wear cotton. #0:56:02.6# Margaret: Yeah. Yeah... #0:56:05.0# Kitty: I remember I used to... I used to blacksmith with my dad and he would be like, "What are you wearing? That's really impractical for this." I'm like, "It's fine. It's cotton, it'll just roll right off. You can't catch fire in cotton." He was like, "That's not really true... But it's more true, I guess." #0:56:22.2# Margaret: It's better than polyester. #0:56:24.0# Kitty: Yes, certainly, yes. #0:56:25.3# Margaret: It's not going to melt into your skin. #0:56:27.9# Kitty: I have melted through so many skirts with some prep butts for sure. And I'm sort of learning at this point that that's... That's a concern. But yeah, I mean that's definitely an area of my prepping that I need to be better about. Is just having practical clothes. I don't have that much in the way of practical clothes that can fold up really small and actually keep me warm or keep me cool. #0:56:59.3# Margaret: Yeah. But sometimes people over... Overestimate the importance of this. I've definitely gone hiking in maxi skirts all time. And every time I go hiking with someone new in a maxi skirt they're like, "Margaret, do you wanna wear that?" And I'm like, "Are you fucking kidding me, I've been hiking in these skirts for the past fifteen years I know what the fuck I'm doing." Yeah, they might get caught and rip on things but whatever, you know? So there's a... There's a... I'm suddenly defensive about like, "Oh no, you don't need practical clothes." I don't know, maybe... Maybe we all need practical clothes. But maybe sometimes... #0:57:31.7# Kitty: You definitely need socks and I would recommend more than one pair of underwear. Probably cotton just for... #0:57:38.9# Margaret: But that's, yeah... #0:57:39.2# Kitty: Keeping your genitals fresh. But other then that... You can figure it out. I mean... But also clothes are not exactly in short supply either. There's a lot of trash fashion that we can pad up to make something acceptable. #0:58:01.8# Margaret: Well, in a lot of disaster areas people gather clothes to bring there and all the people there are like, "Why did you bring us fucking clothes. Bring us fucking clean water. What you doing?" #0:58:12.6# Kitty: Well they're bringing clothes because you can't burn them in India or China anymore, right? So it's like, "Oh, we'll give it to poor people." #0:58:22.1# Margaret: That way we get to feel better and clean out our closet, yeah #0:58:25.7# Kitty: Yup. I mean it's just... I guess that's another... That another threat, is just being buried under stuff. Just trash. Just being slowly buried alive under trash. #0:58:39.4# Margaret: Well that's the... That's the status quo problem, right? There's... If the world doesn't end and it keeps going the way it goes that's also kind of horrible. #0:58:49.7# Kitty: Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess actually another threat model that I think a lot about is disease. Disease is definitely a big concern. We... I live in a city where everyone is on top each other. So... A disease can spread incredibly quickly. I remembered there was a person who went to Berkeley Bowl who had the measles or something and they just quarantined Berkeley bowl. And I was like, "I'm not leaving the house for two weeks, just in case, who knows?" And that's even with having a vaccine. It's just... Knowing that when the electricity fails a lot of things like vaccines are going to become a lot more difficult, if not impossible... #0:59:43.0# Margaret: To acquire or whatever? #0:59:45.1# Kitty: And then... And then it's... Yeah, to acquire, keep them cold. To refrigerate medications, that's not going to be possible. So figuring out that is also something I try to be somewhat aware of. Having alternatives to medication, having alternatives to street drugs also. So knowing about... Knowing how to use Narcan. Knowing a little about... I don't even know how to pronounce that, I've only seen it read... Kratom? #1:00:23.5# Margaret: Kratom I think. #1:00:25.6# Kitty: Yeah, so that has been used by a bunch of my friends when they've been withdrawing from opiates. So having stuff that could work as an alternate... I've always packed some pot in my medic bag even though I don't smoke pot. Because it's so useful for so many different things... That it's worth just having it in there. And that's something that could be a real problem. A bunch of people withdrawing at once... Is a huge problem. A bunch of people getting sick at once is a huge problem. So having alternatives for that stuff is something that I'm looking a lot more into. #1:01:13.4# Margaret: Yeah, that's interesting that... I haven't thought about that. #1:01:16.3# Kitty: And that's what... #1:01:16.3# Margaret: The... Specifically withdrawing. #1:01:18.6# Kitty: That's just really something right-wing people don't think about that. I've noticed this. They're afraid of... Sorry, I forget the actual terminology, again ADHD brain, and I tend to call things... Like I called bars alcohol restaurants, that's just... How my brain works. But there's some doomsday thing that a lot of people are hype on... #1:01:39.4# Margaret: Coronavirus? #1:01:41.8# Kitty: About... No, no, no. I wish it was that, that would make much sense but no. They're just being racist and frantic about that while not thinking about the flu which kills a lot more people. But anyway... No. It's the... It's like a solar flare is going to knock out all of our electricity? #1:02:02.9# Margaret: Oh, 'cause then it'll EMP us or whatever? #1:02:05.4# Kitty: That's the one, yes. There's so many of them who are so focused on that but then they don't think about disease at all. And that just blows my mind because disease is way more likely. #1:02:19.9# Margaret: Yeah, people are bad at threat modeling. #1:02:21.0# Kitty: Within our lifetime we've seen multiple plagues. #1:02:25.0# Margaret: Yeah. I mean it's... #1:02:27.7# Kitty: It's just really surprising. #1:02:29.7# Margaret: I think some of it is about... I mean most of it's that people are bad at threat modeling. But I think some of it is like people... Enjoy certain types of threats. Like preparing for certain types of threats more than others. And also probably enjoy preparing like... For something that makes them feel like they have more agency instead of less agency, you know? If you're someone who... All of your skills are about non-electric things you can be really excited about the power grid going down. But I don't know. #1:03:02.8# Kitty: But I mean... That is... That is another area to think about when it comes to ableism, for example. A lot of diabetics aren't going to be able to get access to their medication. So figuring out how do you deal with that. And I don't think there... I don't know that I have answer to that, I don't know that anybody does. While that's for certain something that I would want to... Know more about. #1:03:28.0# Margaret: I think that's why we have to not... It's why the end of the world is bad. Like disaster is actually a really bad thing. Like people clearly get kind of hooked on it, right, because they suddenly have agency in their lives and they... You know, and... Everything I've ever read or talk to people about, like suicide goes down, like psychotic breaks go down, things like that during crisis. And it's... But it's still, at the end of the day, something that if we can avert it we should. And that's actually why... As much as climate change is going to affect things, there are going to be disasters, there's going to be interruptions in our society, if there's ways we can find to make sure that that doesn't kill so many people or ruin so many lives... Even if it ruins economic systems, maybe, you know... And of course as an anarchist I say this, maybe the solution is to ruin the existing economic system. Although ideally by transferring it over to a system that... You know... So that we still have access to the... The things we need in the meantime. Which is actually, it gets... I'm almost done with this rant. The whole... There's a threat that the whole like... There's a Durruti quote where during the Spanish Civil War... Someone asks him, "Well, what about all the destruction of this revolution?" And he's like, "Well, we're workers, we're not afraid of ruins. Why would we be afraid of ruins, we're the ones who built this city, we can build again." And I think about... Often people are like, well, and this is a tangent 'cause now I'm talking about anarchist society, people are like, "In an anarchist society, how would you have antibiotics?" I'd be like "Well, I don't know, how do we fucking have them now? We'll do that. Or maybe a different way, I don't know." And there's still people in the apocalypse, right? There's still a ton of people in disaster and we all know how to do stuff. And so even if like the electrical grid dies, that doesn't mean there's no power. It doesn't mean there's no hospital, even, you know? There's... Like even... We can... Fix these things and do these things and some of those are already prepared for that. #1:05:43.8# Kitty: Yeah. And I mean... And I think... I guess I would say that while it's good to be prepared, I also think it's important not to psyche yourself out. I think it's important to... Not get too excited about it. Because the fact is a lot of people, a lot of black and brown people especially, disabled people especially, will die. In any kind of disaster that you would want to prep for. That's just... That's how we structured our society and that is going to happen. So I think that that is something to be aware of before getting too thrilled about... The end of the world, right? So that you're kinda saying some really fucked up stuff at the same time. And frankly I don't know that I would survive a disaster like that. But I do know that I don't think I could do it by myself. I do think I could do it with community. And I think that that's why I'm so focus on community and mutual aid. I read A Paradise Built In Hell and it's this really interesting book that looks at different disasters and kind of has that... Isn't it interesting how a disaster happens and people come together and help each other even when everything has gone shit. And how... I think this was kinda the intention of the author of this book but she does seem to point out a lot... Isn't it also interesting how often the government steps in and tells them to stop doing that? So no, that is not okay. And will actually murder people to prevent them from helping each other. And I think that... That's something I'd consider as sort of a secondary threat model is... The government trying to prevent people from actually doing okay without them. It's like an ultimate abusive relationship. And figuring out how to deal with that... When you're being funneled into resources that are not ready to handle them. Yeah, so I mean, you know, it's a lot. #1:08:25.9# Margaret: Well this is a... This is a really good... This is going to be the first episode and... So I think we've covered a lot of... Thanks for helping me kind of... Almost like set up what this show will hopefully drill down more about and yeah, thanks so much for... Talking to me about all this stuff today. #1:08:46.8# Kitty: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm glad we could kind of work out... Sort of, here's all of the issues for... Here's a selection of all of the issues. But wait, there's more. #1:08:58.8# Margaret: Yeah, no, exactly. #1:08:59.1# Kitty: I'm looking forward to seeing the series. It should be pretty cool. #1:09:03.7# Margaret: Cool. Alright, well... Thank you so much. #1:09:06.5# Kitty: Thank you. #1:09:08.0# (Musical transition) #1:09:11.7# Margaret: Thanks for listening to the first ever episode of Live Like The World Is Dying. If you enjoyed the podcast, please tell your friends. Tell iTunes, tell Apple podcasts, tell whatever platform you get your podcasts on that you liked the podcast by subscribing, by reviewing it, by rating it and all of those things. It actually makes a huge difference and I think it'll especially a huge difference for the first couple episodes of a podcast. If you'd like to see this podcast continue, you can support me on Patreon. I... I make most of my living through my Patreon which allows me to spend my time creating content and I'm wildly, wildly grateful that that's something that I get to do with my life. In particular, I would like to thank Chris and Nora and Hoss the dog, Willow, Kirk, Natalie, and Sam. Y'all really make this possible and I can't thank you enough. Alright, thanks so much. And join us next time. #1:10:10.0# (Outroductory music) This podcast is powered by Pinecast. Try Pinecast for free, forever, no credit card required. If you decide to upgrade, use coupon code r-69f62d for 40% off for 4 months, and support Live Like the World is Dying.

Aetech's Atron and Muli-Tron robots can sort waste for recycling at the industrial or local level making sorting recyclables more effective. Support the show on Patreon by becoming a supporter!

New year, new questions! Sort of. Iliza is here to help listeners with Jehovah's Witnesses, a kooky father coming into town, and selfish grandparents.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We're back from the holiday break! (Sort of.) This interview with the inimitable Mike Pesca was recorded on Boxing Day and released right away to paying subscribers. Now it's available to everyone. Host of The Gist and author of the newsletters Pesca Profundities and The Gist List, Mike has turned the humble "bonus segment" into a multi-level rmarketing scheme multi-tiered pricing philosophy. How does he do it? We'll find out! We also talk about the hardest part of the creator economy (discovery), the incentives that reward martyrdom and outrage, and, most of all, Mike's December 26 Substack post No One's Nice To Bari Weiss. The CBS News editor-in-chief has been all over the headlines this past week after spiking delaying a 60 Minutes segment on CECOT, the notorious El Salvador terrorist prison, that was on the cusp of airing. Is it because the segment needed to "move beyond the forty-yard lines?" Or is something else going on? Also: a discussion on a mega-viral Compact article about systemic discrimination against white millennial men, a cry against Hamilton erasure, and why my lack of grip strength is more than made up for by my alarmingly hyperextensive fingers.

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Brock and Brady Henderson of ESPN help set up the Week 18 showdown between the Seahawks and 49ers and some important things to take note of ahead of the game. They also decide if rushing judgement is warranted for the SEC, John Schneider/Pete Carroll and Tom Brady/Bill Belichick. In Blue 88, topics include the biggest mismatch the Seahawks will have over the 49ers, the upcoming QB class for the 2026 NFL Draft and a couple of football numbers worth looking at every week.