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Chapter 81 - The Lord'f My Fhepherd. It's 7.59am on, let me work it out, the 27th October 2020. The harvest has had to happen by now, right? Right??? Another dip into the book of medieval stone clearing mottos PLUS the great ftone hymnal comes into play. All that plus the stone pole, a shape-shifting octopus woman and Richard forgetting to do the singing, ringing tree on the one say it would probably have worked. Download RHLSTP 300 to give some money to Refuge: http://rhlstp.co.uk/300 Make a donation to Movember to thank Richard and the Stone Gods for all that they do for you: http://rhlstp.co.uk/movember

Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 16 - How to Craft a Rolling Social Media / Digital Marketing Internship Program for your Company.  In this episode you’ll hear this amazing guest, Jennifer Osbon! She is a Full-time professor at University of GA leading the Digital Marketing Area of Emphasis in the Terry College of Business and she teaches Social Media Marketing Strategy and Digital Marketing Analytics to both undergraduates and MBA students. We discuss the needs on both sides – the students and the corporations which sets the table as to why you should consider an internship at all. Where you should start?  She gives a great framework and ideas for the steps and considerations so you don’t make the mistake of “winging it” and she even reveals common pitfalls you can avoid!  You want to develop a reputation where students talk about how great the experience was with your firm as opposed to them saying things like, “they didn’t let me do hardly anything and I was bored to death!” She explains What is and how can you structure a “rolling internship program?” and paid or unpaid – if paid – how much?!! Did you know that universities have Internship resources – career services as well as the specific college or department with people who you can develop relationships with in order to recruit Interns? Listen in and thank you for listening! Carey (00:01): Hello and welcome to Carey Sperry, all social ya'll podcast. I'm your host, Carey Sperry. We discuss how to employ social to become truly customer centric. We identify how social is a fuel for business growth and we talk with some of the best and brightest business leaders, entrepreneurs and digital marketers. Our guests share inspiring stories and effective tactics to discover, interact, and emotionally connect with customers where they are on social platforms. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 16 how to craft a rolling social media digital marketing internship program for your company. Thank you so much for being here. I am delighted to introduce you to an amazing guest, Jennifer Osbon. She is a full time professor at university of Georgia - go Bulldogs! She leads the digital marketing area of emphasis in the Terry College of Business. She is faculty supervisor for the UGA collegiate chapter of American Marketing Association and teaches social media marketing strategy and digital marketing analytics to both undergraduates and MBA students. The courses are based on curriculum that she developed mixing strong digital marketing principles with sociology, economics and analytics. She also sits on the marketing executive board for UGA, ensuring that the curriculum taught in the classroom, provides the students with an employable skill set upon graduation. Jennifer, thank you so much for being here with us today. Jennifer Osbon (01:58): Oh, I'm so excited. Thank you for having me. Carey (02:01): Sure. So we met through LinkedIn how appropriate haha I feel fortunate and lucky to have met you. Really. Um, and when we met we had an immediate rapport, which I loved and maybe because we share both our passion for digital marketing but also teaching, I'm no college professor, but your story and how your career has evolved into playing a super important role for both students and our business world. Can you, can we start off by you briefly sharing that journey with us and kind of how you ended up becoming a full time professor of digital marketing at UGA? Jennifer Osbon (02:40): Yeah. So, well it's a little bit of lightning struck. I was at the right place at the right time. Um, but, but it is kind of an interesting story I guess. Um, I was guest lecturing in a masters of internet technology class and the PR, I basically was doing a, a capabilities presentation Jennifer Osbon (03:00): for my company. I used to own a full service digital marketing agency, and was talking about here's kind of how we see the world and where we think it's going and that kind of thing. And he said to me, you've got a lot of content here. And I said, yeah! I said, but it's really difficult to hire students to come into this world because while they're digital natives, what, they're not...., They're not really good at using these technologies as marketers. They're really good at using these technologies as users. And so that led to a conversation, um, with the marketing department chair at Terry college of business here at UGA. And I went in and I met with Charlotte Mason and sat down with her and said, she said, what's on your mind? Jennifer Osbon (03:55): And I said, well, I can't hire your students. ...Not just me. I mean, industry-wide, these kids, ...they're coming out great users, but not coming out as great marketers. And so, you know, she said, well, what would you teach them? And I kinda said, well, some sociology, some economic principles like momentum and how we develop those things online, the tectonic shift and how we spend our money in marketing these days. And, and all kinds of things- that is not tips and tricks, it's more strategies. And so she said to me, why don't you write what you just said - write it down in this particular format? And I went to a meeting with a teacher and I came away with homework. So that's kind of a what I would have expected. So I did my homework, I turned it in and she called me six weeks later and said, "I got your course approved. " And I didn't realize I had written a course, but what she had put in front of me was curriculum. Jennifer Osbon (04:56): Yeah. And so, you know, as a small business owner, I thought to myself, well, this is perfect. I'm going to have academic credentials that's going to help me with business development. I can hire the best students right off the top. The rest of them can go to work for my competitors. And, and I've done some good in the world and you know, but at the end of the day, I was thinking all about me, me, me, what am I going to get from this? And, um, I wound up, -so my deal was I was going to teach only Tuesday and Thursday mornings and be done by noon. And so I thought, all right, this is good. I'll keep my business and do this part time and it was going to be great. And I got here and I absolutely fell in love with the students. Jennifer Osbon (05:40): I fell in love with the energy that you get from being around young people. And what I learned very quickly from the students is that, you know, they've got this aptitude and if you just shift their lens, so they look at it from a business instead of a consumer perspective, their light bulbs go on. And it is amazing what they can do if it's just framed right and they're just like, Oh....I get this. And they know exactly what they're doing. Well, three year story condensed, down to 30 seconds, I wound up shutting down my business. I wound up coming to teach full time and I literally have done a complete career pivot to where now I am a full time professor and absolutely loving the ability to grow and build the digital marketing area of emphasis and breaking down what that means. The emphasis is basically students who are business students in the Terry College of Business, where they have, declared marketing as their major. Jennifer Osbon (06:45): And then what they do next is they have a choice to go deep in either professional selling or in digital marketing. And I lead that, that emphasis. And within that the school has been very, very accommodating where they say, you know what, my job description is, teach these students what they need to know. S it's not about - you need to use this particular textbook. I don't even use textbooks. Right? This industry moves so quickly. That's not that where we need to be spending our time, effort, and money. Anyway, it's turned into an absolute amazing situation. And now we're graduating students who have digital area of emphasis on their diploma from the college and they're moving straight into the workforce. Carey (07:35): Wow. What a gift to both the university, the students and the business world. I mean, you're like, what if there weren't that sequence of events? ...if it wasn't for you, I wonder how long it would have taken? Which I'm sure they would've figured it out, but it's just awesome. With that, and that you love what you do and you love being around the young student body. Jennifer Osbon (07:54): Absolutely. What was interesting about the way that it came about is that they look at curriculum every few years and they realize what's missing and then they try to go fill in those gaps. And I happen to have been the right place at the right time that made that work. Carey (08:10): Yes. Awesome. So we're going to get into a way to craft a rolling internship program for our listeners. But I just wanted to kind of mention, you know, hearing that you guide your students who are preparing for the workplace to apply their social media learnings and other digital marketing strategies and tactics to what are mostly strategies, like you said, to what's needed in the current business landscape. And this requires you and university to, like you said, continually assess the needs of corporate America. Right? So let's start with the backdrop of the needs on both sides, the needs of the students and then the corporations, which will kind of set the table as to why, - why, you know, businesses should consider an internship program at all. Jennifer Osbon (08:56): Okay, sure, sure, sure. So, well, there's lots and lots of different flavors of internships. There's part time and full time there's paid or unpaid and, and in general, what I feel like that we should talk about today is really paid full time internships where students have set duties or planned rotation where they can get a real comprehensive look at a role or a function within a company. When you think about it, students want to do internships to gain experience in their desired field. It's hard to get a job without experience. And honestly, the easiest way to know if you like a job is to actually do it. So internships really offer students that hands on opportunity where they can connect what they're learning in the classroom to the real world. And in theory, that internship experience makes them stronger candidates for jobs after graduation, right from the company being active. Jennifer Osbon (09:56): Obviously, if you hire for entry level roles, internships give you that option to try it before you buy it. College students can intern in the summer between their junior and senior years and then join full time after they graduate. And, and that usually works for large companies who have like an ongoing new associate program. But for small middle-sized businesses, you know, the predictability of, of head count increases is maybe a little bit more fluid. I mean, you don't know what your life's gonna look like six months a year down the road. But that doesn't mean to consider interns. You know, you don't have to have the carrot of a potential job in order to get students interested in interning for you. Students are building their network and they're interested in gaining experience in the industry. They're looking to line their pockets with a little bit of cash. So you can actually help students. What you become is a really good reference for when they are finding their full time job. Right? So, so internships don't have to always lead to that full time job. If the internship is crafted properly, students can add real value to your business and they can save you a little bit of money over what you would have to pay a full time person to do the same work. Right? Jennifer Osbon (11:28): People often ask, do I have to pay interns? And you know, like with most things in life, you get what you pay for. If you pay interns, it makes them feel appreciated. It makes them work harder. It also allows you to grow greater diversity when it comes to your hiring. Because if you're not paying interns, you're only gonna hire the rich kids whose parents can financially support them while they're not earning money. Right. So people ask sometimes, you know, what should you pay a digital marketing intern? Their wages can be between, you know, 12 and $20 an hour, which is way less than that 50 grand you would be paying a full time person, right? That 12 to 20 an hour would be something like 24 to $40,000 a year - just cash outlay as opposed to a $50,000 for a full time person. Carey (12:26): Well I just having a daughter in the college world right now, she's a senior at Georgia state between her friends and just random interactions that I have with college students. Like I had one in an Uber, um, not too long ago who says to me, we have to have an internship and it seems like there's a shortage. I don't know if that's accurate. That's just from there, kind of like, not desperation, but I see all the time how eager they are to find an internship and how they're saying that you have to have one to get a good job. Is there, is there a shortage? Do you know? Jennifer Osbon (13:08): Well, it's not that there's necessarily a shortage. Students know that they really do need to have an internship. Think about graduating from college and all you've got on your resume is I have this fancy shiny college degree and I scooped ice cream at the local ice cream shop and I was a lifeguard. You know, they really need something that says I got this degree and I actually know what I'm getting into. So that internship is the thing that really drives credibility for students. And so, you know, some of them will actually tell you they would rather have an internship than a study abroad. And the option to travel the world and learn how to do that is not a very attractive thing to too many college students. And they're saying, no, no, no. What's more important to me is I'd rather have a good solid internship because that gives me something to talk about in interviews. That's how I said that how they plan to launch their professional career is really, really your job. If you have absolutely no experience at all in, in whatever your field is,- it is and can be daunting and scary. Carey (14:21): Um, so wow, that's super helpful. That really kinda sets, like I said, sets the table and as to why and on both sides. So now as a business owner might say or an or a management high up management, I think this sounds like a great idea. I might want to hire an intern. So a lot of business owners and leaders might just be tempted to like slap a job ad out there without a plan. A great plan always, of course, sets up the chances for the best success. We all know, but it's not always done in practice. So like where should we start? Maybe can you kind of break out some of the steps and considerations? Jennifer Osbon (14:59): Yeah, yeah! The first thing I feel like you really need to do is set your goal and come up with what you want that intern to do and it needs to be an actual, you know, they don't just show up knowing what to do or how to add value in your business. They need well-defined responsibilities, they need deliverables. You need to set expectations just like you would for a full time employee, right? Honestly, the less time you plan, the less time you spend planning your internship roles and responsibilities, the more you can expect that they're going to get on your nerves or be a burden. These are people that are going to show up to your office every single day and they can only bring you coffee once or twice. So they need to have something to do and, and if you don't plan it out and you don't really design that experience, then you just feel like, oh, this person's always here. Just remember that's your fault. It's not theirs. Right? You're bringing them in for a reason. The first one really, really lay out what you want that person to accomplish. Oftentimes the way that you can do that is you can say, okay, here's a specific role. Maybe if it's a social media coordinator role, then they will have responsibility for creating certain posts or managing your editorial calendar or they have goals for what kind of engagement you're trying to accomplish, to see that driven up over some period of time. You can kind of set your goals based on what you're trying to accomplish, but if you lay it out, it's really clear for both you and them as to what success looks like. Right? Another thing that's really to do with interns is to let them rotate through your business. So you know, if your social component is part of a larger marketing effort and you've got some event marketing or you've got some traditional marketing or should the have different kinds of things going on, let them rotate through and see how what they do fits into the overall wheel of what you're doing doing. Then it's always a good idea to say, Hey, come with me to this meeting. And literally just put them in there and say, don't say anything, but sit here, just listen and see what's going on. It's always a good idea to do things like that with them. Sometimes an internship program, we'll have a capstone project where they tell the student, okay, here's what you'll be doing on the day to day, but also longterm you're going to be working on an over, you know, I want you to present at the end of the semester or however long the internship program is. I want you to present this. And they'll give you, you know, the students a case study or they'll say, make a case study out of what you're doing and give us feedback at the end. So the student has a longer term thing as opposed to just daily tasks and those, yeah, those all make really, really good internships. Another thing that I always advise is to get to, so it's a sediment intern program coordinator or make sure every intern that you have has an assigned buddy. Um, because again, they're not going to speak up like a full time employee would, if there's a problem, sometimes they're a little shy about bringing problems forward. So, or they're confused and they might not feel like maybe asking a question. They need it. They need that person that they can go to that they feel comfortable with asking whatever they need to ask or getting whatever answer or maybe they're getting push back in some area of the organization and they don't feel like they can, you know, take that on head on. They need to have that person that they can go to. So really having that program coordinator or a buddy or whoever is super important. And then, just making, making their development one of your priorities right? Making their development as a, you know, they're going from student to professional. Anything you can do to help life coach them in to where they need to eventually wind up is, is always is always good. Carey (19:07): Oh, those are fantastic tips and giving people bullets and things so that as they're writing out their plan, they can build those components in there. Jennifer Osbon (19:17): We also have pitfalls to avoid. One thing to remember with interns is they really are young. So if it's part of your company culture to go out and grab a drink after work, just realize they may not be 21. And what you don't want to do, put them in a position where they could feel pressured to drink. I mean, it just, it gets awkward for everybody. So if that's part of your culture, make sure that you let the student understand, we want you to come, we'd love you to be a part of this, but don't feel pressured to partake if that's not your thing. Because again, they're still very impressionable young people. Carey (20:01): Yeah, great point. I wouldn't have even gone there, but my husband and I were going by this road that leads to the Greenway here. It's for him to run on. And we noticed this brewery tucked away in a in a business community and we're like, we didn't even know that was there. And there are people inside. Um, I don't know if they serve anything besides beer, but maybe don't go there haha Jennifer Osbon (20:26): Exactly. The fact that they're young and, and speaking up for things like this can be awkward because they want to please so badly. That's their thing is that they want this to be a great experience for you and they're trying as hard as they can. So you just want to respect and maybe not put them in difficult situations. Carey (20:46): Yes. Very respectful. So looking ahead as we plan, should companies think and expect to hire one intern and then sort of see how it works out? Or what are some like alternative plans to what you referenced as like that rolling internship program? Jennifer Osbon (21:06): So, so one thing that you can do, I think you definitely need to start with with one cycle and see how it goes and see how it fits within your company. But, but let's say that you've done that and you you've had a good experience and you're like, you know what? I really could see having interns as a part of how we grow and how we deliver the work that we do for our business. A rolling internship simply means that you're continuously rotating interns each semester. So it's not just a summer long program, but every single semester. So there are students that would say, I'm going to take fall off - just work and do an internship. So that's their thing is they would not go to class, they would go to work for you, in the fall, or some would choose to do it in the spring, when spring term starts, you know, January, right after the New Year. Then some would do it in Summer. If you do a rolling one each semester you're planning to bring in new interns and say goodbye to the old. Ideally you would want to have some sort of a two week overlap so that you're not spending all of your time training and retraining people. But yet part of that is that you can actually assign permanent duties to these interns. And it's a way of having interns fill a role as opposed to hiring a full time person. Yeah. I mean it's been proven that that turnover is expensive. Jennifer Osbon (22:38): And in this situation, you're literally planning turnover, right? You're planning to have three people per year, but it may be worth it if you're doing your part to help students launch their career and you've got a really good business function that they're actually able to deliver for you. Then it could be very much a win win situation if that's how you wanted to approach it. You just tell students, you're like, okay, here is going to be a fall internship, but I need you to be around the first two weeks to make sure that we've trained in the new person or be available for questions and have kind of a little bit of an overlap or to spring internship. But I need you to start before this semester so that we can, you know make sure those overlaps happen. But that means that you're always in a cycle of reviewing resumes, interviewing and bringing in new people. But at the same time, every once in a while you find a real, a real diamond in there that you want to hire full time. Carey (23:42): Yeah. Wow. That's inspiring and you'd get real pretty good at it, you know, and comfortable with that process and meeting a lot of different people and maybe one intern would recommend another. So, then that also allows for the transparency in the expectations with the timeline. I think that's really helpful to everyone and that'll be fine. Moving on. So what, what are some ways that you see companies recruiting interns? How are they finding people or how should business leaders think about where to go to find Intern candidates? Speaker 2 (24:13): Well, finding them is actually not that hard. Finding students is not that hard. You look to your local university, right? Whichever university of choice that you would like to, to, to recruit from. Every single one of them will have a career services department. You also can reach not just university-wide but to the college. So you could go to the journalism school or the business school. You go directly to the college, or Terry college of business. Even directly to the department, the marketing department or a professor who teaches a class that's designed to build the exact skills you're looking for in your internship, whether that be sales or digital marketing or, or anything else, finding the students isn't that hard. You just look to the school from which you want to recruit, design a really, really good internship experience for the students and then build a relationship with the school and you'll have an endless supply of interns to help you grow your business. And it becomes repetitive and it just becomes- it actually becomes an enjoyable experience for sure. Carey (25:21): Yeah, very rewarding. I didn't even know that. Is there, is there like boards, digital boards that they're posted on or anything like that? Or is it more just kind of like them knowing the opportunity of the contact at the university and then them knowing the students and kind of putting them together? Like matchmakers? Jennifer Osbon (25:38): Every university will have a career services department at the university with a website specifically where you can post internships within that year. You are able to go in and upload a job description and you say, is it paid or unpaid? Spell out what kind of skills are you looking for? All of that kind of thing. And students search those pretty regularly. Also, you know, specifically in our department, I get hit up all the time, right? So I spend a lot of time with the business community trying to make sure that what I'm teaching in the classroom translates to the skills they need in the workforce. And so they'll call me directly. And they'll say, Hey, I'm looking for this and for that. And we have, we literally will send an email every single week. We also have opportunities at the college level for employer of the day. And so you're welcome to come up and stand and kind of our student area for the business school. And you can kind of, literally do speed interviews, collect resumes and that kind of thing. So, really building a relationship with the college who can then funnel the students to you is the one thing. Um, and then just be aware of this: students definitely talk about their internship experience and you wind up building a reputation as a good or bad intern opportunity. The spiral happens and the best students are competing for them and the bad ones are spiraling down and no one wants to work for those companies. Carey (27:23): Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're texting each other too! Jennifer Osbon (27:33): I guess the worst thing is when a student says, I was there for three months and they never let me do anything. So definitely right now, form an internship experience, you know, if you design a holistic and valuable experience, I promise that'll pay off for both you and for the intern. Carey (28:16): Yes. Well that's a great note to end on. I learned so much. I hope you all did too. Jennifer - Pofessor Osbon, thank you so much for being with us. This is just amazing. Jennifer Osbon (28:16): Thank you so much for having me. Carey (28:16): Okay. Have a great day, everybody! Thanks for listening to the all social ya'll podcast. For free resources and materials, head over to all social, y'all dot com that's all social Y a L L.com. Also, we'd love to hear from you, what subject areas would you like to hear about in future episodes? You can share that with us by dropping me a comment on our website or in Instagram at all. Social, y'all.  

How to Recession-Proof Your Mindset Special episode featuring business coach Tyson Sharpe. Check out Tyson's Facebook group Connect, Contribute, Collaborate: https://www.facebook.com/groups/connectcontributecollaborate/ Learn more on how to recession-proof your mindset at dorksdelivered.com.au Josh: Good morning everyone, and welcome to this podcast. Today we've got a fantastic guest with us. We've got Tyson Sharpe and it's going to be a doozy of an episode. We're going to be talking about recession proofing, your mindset. Tyson tell me a bit about what you do. Tyson: Yeah, sure. Well, thanks for having me. I always love doing these interviews and love sharing this type of stuff. But basically what I described as what I do is I help business owners and CEOs basically understand what's happening in their unconscious mind when they see these patterns of fears, doubts and frustrations arise. And so, we can have a different relationship with them. So, not only can we start to resolve those internal conflicts, but we can start having more success in business or in whatever ventures we're in, just as a byproduct of who it been. So, that's really where my work and my expertise lies. Josh: Sweet. Well, I know that it's, everything comes down to mindset. I started today with the eight suspicious transactions on my credit card and I thought no, so here we go. How's this week going to be? And I thought, you know what? I could smile off or cry. A rang through to the bank, got the transactions, looked at, had the credit card pause and then laugh. Tyson: You've got to stop sharing your details on the podcast. Josh: That's probably a good hint and tip there for anyone out there and security learn. So, if you had to go through different situations that you've seen and I think it's an imminent to the situation we're in in Australia with the recession, and that can bring about nasty thought, patterns and am I going to be successful or why are people disappearing? Why are they leaving and things like that. And it's a lot of the time not due to your own doing. How do you make sure that you have... what hints and tips would you give to make sure that you do continue on a positive train of thought in making sure that you're aware of your emotions and you keep up with your emotional fitness. Tyson: Yeah, sure. So, one piece of the awareness I would give people, and people can find this in themselves as well, is that when you have something like some uncertainties in your environment or you have some uncertainties in the future around finances or what's going to happen, whatever it may be, if you feel triggered by that, if you feel the scarcity, if you feel lack, if you feel overwhelmed uncertainty, what you have to understand is those patterns were already in you, right? So, if the recession comes or the recession's on its way or it's sort of slowly moving its way in, and that trigger you, what you have to know is that pattern was already in you. So, your external environments just triggered what was already in you. Right? So, what a lot of people will do is they'll try to solve their internal, how they feel and the uncertainty with the external results, right? So, they're like, "Oh, I just got to make more money or I just got to save this or whatever." And that's where I sort of find with a lot of business owners is they try to resolve the internal conflict with something externally. Or another way to put that as you're trying to achieve something external by filling a void within yourself. Right? Josh: Yeah. Tyson: So, if you're looking to achieve, if you're looking to get more money, more success, more fame or whatever it may be, what I find is a lot of people are doing that through an unconscious pattern of trying to solve an internal conflict, right? An internal void within themselves that they can't solve any other way because they didn't have the heightened awareness yet. And so, I like to raise that awareness so that people can actually start seeing what's going on within them and actually what's driving them, right? So a lot of people are trying to achieve success and they're thinking, yeah, I just want the best life possible. But what they don't understand is what unconsciously what's happening is they're trying to achieve at a different level because it's some level within themselves they're trying to feel enough or they're trying to feel worthy. And that's why I find a lot of people are trying to build a business based on fear, based on scarcity and based on lack, which obviously is not sustainable. Josh: So, I guess in that situation you'd be saying that maybe the measuring stick that they're using and what successes should be changed? Tyson: Totally. So, in terms of, it's not only the measuring stick, but it's also what's driving you. It's also what's giving you the fuel? Is it a push or is it a pull? Is it something that you feel like you have to do in order to be enough? Right? Josh: Mm-hmm Tyson: Or is it a pull, is it like a calling to you? Is it like when, so for example, if your internal and external world was exactly the way you wanted it, would you still have a calling to do the exact same thing right? Josh: Right. Do you wake up to do it or is it a job or is it a lifestyle I guess, is this something you would do if you were retired and you had all the time, money in the world or you found out you had a terminal illness or something like that? Tyson: Yeah, exactly. So, that's where I find a lot of people are trying to achieve because they're trying to feel that void within themselves. And that's why when they run into all the fears, doubts and frustrations, they're not too sure what to do and all of a sudden they think they need to change their external circumstances in order to feel a certain way. And obviously if you're trying to achieve something externally to feel a certain way, a lot of that can be outside your control. That's what sort of like drives people crazy, right? Trying to change things outside of their control and thinking that that impedes on how they feel on a day to day basis. So, that's the sort of awareness that I like to sort of raise with people. Josh: So, bringing awareness to the problem I think is very important. I know that I went through a darkest portion in my life, if I could call it that. And I wrote down a list of all the things that make me happy. All the things that make me sad. And one of the things was things outside of my control. And I was becoming aware of that, it allowed me to think, okay, now that I'm aware that that's outside of my control, I now know that something that makes me upset. But you can then change your emotions and change your relationship with that situation once you become aware of it. Would you say that's an approach that you would take, yeah? Tyson: Totally. So, that's the sort of what I call the first step. Josh: Correct. Tyson: So, in the business. So, everyone loves personal development, right? So, we love improving ourselves and so we love being able to reframe our thoughts and shift our state and learn how to feel better. Right? I call that's sort of first step. That's the pillar because that it's a good first step because it shows you that you are in control of your emotions and that it's actually your thoughts that lead to any emotions, not the circumstance themselves. So, that's a really, really good platform and it really sets the stage for personal development and for you to become the director of your own life. What I find what other people like my clients and my community is doing is just going that layer deeper. So, in terms of when they already know that, okay, my feelings and everything in my internal world is being driven by my thoughts and my internal pattern's not the circumstance themselves. One thing that you can start doing is when you do have emotions like fear, like doubt, like worry, scarcity, overwhelmed. When those feelings start to come up, instead of changing your emotion straight away, what you can actually start doing is starting to have a very, very different relationship with those patterns. Because what I found in my work coaching hundreds of business owners in the last couple of years is that, when these patterns arise, say a pattern of fear, so you've got the recession, you got external circumstances that are outside your control and you have this fear come up. What a lot of people do is, they avoid that feeling or they resist that feeling so they can avoid it by, like I said, by shifting your state and avoiding that feeling all by trying to change your external circumstances so that you don't feel that feeling right? Avoiding the circumstance, avoiding a situation that would make that feeling arise or they resist it. They resist it by not allowing it. So, they resist it by making it wrong. They resist it by thinking it shouldn't be there. They resist it by trying to fix it. Right? And so, what happens is when you have any emotion that arises, like fear and you avoid or resist it, it actually grows unconsciously. You're actually pushing down a side of you unconsciously. And that takes a lot of unconscious energy, but also allows that pattern to grow. So, it's almost like, if you were to have a five year old come to you, and they're running chaos, right? So, they're a bit scared. They're worried, they're fearful, and for a bit of peace, what you do is, you go and you place that five-year-old in a different room in the house. And so, you place the five-year-old in a different room, you come back to the room you're in and it feels more peaceful. Right? It feels more peaceful. But- Josh: It's not. Tyson: ... that five-year-old's still running chaos in the other room. Right? And they're probably doing it a different level, and in a different manner, because they're in a different room just running chaos. And that's what I find that a lot of business owners do, when these patterns arise is they avoid them. Right? Or they resist them. And so I find when people shift out of those patterns quickly, and they try to fix them, or they think something's wrong, they grow unconsciously. So, you can feel better on the surface with some personal development, and you're shifting your thoughts and reframing and all those really, really good tools. But unless you resolve that conflict, it's always going to grow unconsciously. Josh: Okay. And so, what would you say is the first step? Well, yeah, I guess we were talking about writing them down and becoming aware of them, but how do you know some people have had these ingrained in their life for so long that they're not even aware that there was some something like, I guess the old Hollywood scenario of you go and see a psychologist and they say all the problems stem back to your mother? Tyson: No. What should? Josh: And then how do you become aware that that's an issue? Tyson: Well, you can only become aware of what's in your conscious mind, right? So, what's coming up consciously that you can recognise are your emotions. We're genuinely pretty aware when we're fearful, when we do have this emotion of worry or stress, right? We totally do have those emotions and we're generally pretty aware of them. And so, I find it is true. A lot of your emotional patterns do come back to your childhood, right? Because we have conditioned in our lives, we have conditioned patterns that say who do I need to be and what needs to happen in order for me to be enough? Because if I'm enough, therefore I'll be loved and unconsciously love is linked to survival. So, that's why when we have an obstacle in our way between us and success, it can often feel like life and death because at some level it is to our unconscious mind. But you can definitely be aware of the emotions you're feeling and you don't actually need to know where it's coming from. It can help. You don't actually need to know where it's coming from to resolve the internal conflict, to resolve that pattern. What you actually need to do is feel it, is to feel that pattern without any resistance, without any judgement . And if you allow it to be there and not need it to leave, that's when the pattern starts to resolve. Josh: Okay. So, I guess, where do you start? I guess I know you've got a Facebook group. What are the other tools that you use or that you have to help people out with this? Tyson: Yeah, sure. I have, yeah, so many things. I've got the Facebook group and the YouTube channel and all those different things. The type of exercises or content or whatever it may be that helps people most, is helping them become aware that, so, to feel these patterns, so to feel when these emotions arise and to feel them fully. The way I sort of explain it, we'll stick to the five year old analogy. So, it's like when this patterns arising, let's say fear for example, if fear is arising within you, it's almost like an internal five of year old that's scared, right? So, for the recession, for example, recession's happening a lot of uncertainty, you're not too sure about your financial future. And all of a sudden you have fear. Now, what's actually happening is you have a pattern within you that was, I call it your five year old self, right? You have a pattern that was generally conditioned in your childhood that says, and that this pattern and his five year old within you believes that you need to have finances in order to feel enough or you need to have finances in order to be okay, in order to be safe, in order to be secure. Josh: Okay. And that could be depending on how your parents brought you up or the lifestyle that they had or other aspects like that. Tyson: There's so many factors. So, that's why I find it can help to identify the story, but it's not necessary. It's not an absolute puzzle piece to figuring out all of this, but it can help to understand that there is a five year old within you, a five-year-old pattern that does believe that something, that your financial future needs to be secure in order for you to be secure. Or you need money in order to feel enough and worthy, right? Or in order to feel safe. So, this five-year-olds freaking out. And what's emerging in the form of fear. It's almost like your internal five-year-old freaking out saying external circumstances aren't the way we think they should be. And so, the reason why this five-year-old's emerging, is so it can be seen, is so it can be heard, so it can be understood and loved. So, it's almost like that five-year-old coming up to you, right when you're in your house or whatever it may be. And this five year old is trying to be seen, trying to be heard. And that's why when a lot of people try to avoid them, or resist them, using the analogy of putting them in the other room. That's why that pattern grows unconsciously because it's not seen, and all fear will continue the more you don't want it to be there, and the more it's not seen. But fear will resolve and you can almost feel it start to dissolve within you. The moments that it's seen, the moment that it's understood and the moment that it's loved unconditionally. Another way of putting that is, fear will always resolve when you don't need it to leave. When you don't need it to leave and you just sit there and you feel it fully and you love that pattern and you listen to it, and you allow it to be there. That's when the pattern starts resolving. That's when it's [crosstalk 00:18:40]- Josh: There was just exactly what you're talking about. I might be misquoting this a bit, but are you familiar with the story of the turtle and the hungry fox about- Tyson: I'm not. Josh: It is a story told by Buddha and sorry for anyone that's listening as I'm terribly, it's terribly reiterating this wrong, but the fox sees this turtle and gets something to eat this turtle. This is going to be amazing and runs over to the turtle. The turtle pulls itself into the shell, instead of running away knowing that it won't ever be able to run away from something, the turtle in the situation would be fear as for the fox in the situation would be fear. The turtle pulls itself into the shell, not to necessarily protect itself, but to look within its own mind is the metaphor there to find and be within its own mind to be able to look outwards once the fear is gone. But battling the fee and not running away from it, was the sort of the analogy there. So, that'd be similar- Tyson: Yeah, exactly. Josh: I guess to sort of what you're sort of describing there. And it's definitely something that everyone needs to do. There's a lot of people that suffer from anxiety and I think anxiety is just, and this is again as a generalisation, it is a disease, but it's when we're not put in a situation where we're asked to grow beyond our comfort circle. You build up more and more of a problem and that's where you need to sometimes just battle up and jump straight forward through it. And that's stress. I guess another immersion, if you have stress a lot of the time it's because it's something that's important to you. You have anxiety because it's important to you. And so you need to know how to deal with that and be able to jump through those hoops so that you can overcome some of those five year old child, five year old self problems that you might have that have been ingrained into your belief systems. Tyson: Totally. I love that story. And it's true, if you are trying to solve something by running away from it, it's never going to work out. It's always going to be a downward spiral. But the moments you evolve are the moments when you know you need to look in. All the answers you have are within. And that's what a huge shift in my life has been, is when I have all this fear, doubt and frustration, and I realise that everything I want to achieve externally is internal. Every answer is found internally. And I am the answer that I'm looking for. And so, when I go in and meditate, for example, or I look in and resolve these internal conflicts, the external success is just the byproduct, all right? The excellent success in terms of the wherever it may be, the clients, the income, the Facebook group, whatever it may be. All of that is just growing just as a byproduct of the resolving these internal conflicts, because you can't help it evolve, you can't help, you're like a helium balloon that always just wants to expand and rise up. [crosstalk 00:21:54] A lot of us have the patterns that keep pushing the balloon down. So, once you resolve these internal conflicts, you naturally just float up. You naturally just move into a higher level of consciousness and a higher level of success, high level of contribution because that's naturally where we move, that's naturally where we go when we start resolving these patterns. Josh: Well, I couldn't agree more and having the best mindset and I've got a podcast and a YouTube video on mirror mindset. And looking within, because it is ultimately, it's where everything sits. The six inches between your ears is the most important six inches you have in your body. That's right. It's funny. So, yeah. Meditation doesn't have to be difficult to either. I know that you are a king spear who's meditates for a couple of hours a day, is that right? Tyson: Correct. Yeah. So I meditate. I've gone past a hundred days of meditating, two hours a day. And a lot of people freak out when they think of themselves doing the same, like how do you have the time? How the hell do you run a business and do all of this when you're meditating two hours a day. And I just find that when I wake up, I can feel when I'm in my head I'm like, I need to have this to do list. Right? Josh: Yes. Tyson: And my mind has a story of what I think I need to do in order to be okay. In order to be successful, in order to feel enough, in order to feel worthy. And then when I sit down and meditate for an hour, and I do at least an hour in the morning before I do anything, before I check my phone or emails, whatever it may be, social media. And so, when I do that, I come out of meditation knowing I don't have to do any of that. And in fact that was just a story I was telling myself. And then the actions taken moving forward, I'd just from such a guided place, it's from such a resourceful place. It's from a space of creativity and flow and that's why the success is the byproduct. When you're in flow, like you're unstoppable, right? When you're in flow and you've resolved some of your patterns and your internal conflicts and you start to love these five year olds so they can transcend, you just naturally fit into a flow and into a creativity. And you can start to feel when things feel heavy, when things feel a lot. And you can just stop moving from a place that's a higher guidance system. And that's what I find is, that's the flip that where everything sort of changes, and everyone sort of starts to notice that the answers are within them and they can just move from that place and they can be guided from that place and then they start to realise the success that they find is a byproduct. It's really just it's your own natural, it's the internal work that matters most and the external that is just the secondary gain. Josh: I would absolutely agree. I would say the best way to describe it in my opinion is everyone has experienced that writer's block is experience where you're there in front of the computer or pen on paper and you are like, honey just got to get this thing done and it might be a school assignment, might be an assessment, it might be something that's due the next day at work or, and you're just going through. I can't get it, and nothing is working. Nothing is working. A lot of the time, the amount of time that you sit there pestering your brain with negative thoughts saying, I can't get it, it's not working, I can't think of it. This is just crap, but I'm writing. Your conscious mind is passing all that to your unconscious mind and you're in 100% belief that you cannot do it, and you won't be able to do it. And then, as soon as you hit that point, which is the normally hours before it's due, or the night before, and then you have these cram sessions or this epiphany where this writer's blocks removed and you just have this huge amount of work that just comes out of you. And you think, "Wow, where did that all come from?" And as you said, it's always been within you and it's that you had this shift at a time where you went, "Okay, the negative of me not doing this work is now worse if I don't get it in because then I might not get the university degree or I might not get that promotion or whatever is at the end.” And so, the two balances of evil weigh each other out until you finally get it done. But if you meditate and if you, instead of procrastinating and having those negative thoughts, if you're, instead of spending the same time meditating, you'd find most people would have an easily an hour a day where they would be just procrastinating that they could easily be spending on meditation and positive thought training rather than sitting there not working, but waiting to work sort to speak. Tyson: Yeah, and I did this for like when I just started to, okay, I'm going to look internal. I'm going to resolve whatever patterns are emerging. I'm going to start to see, I'm just going to experiment. I actually did six hours in one day, just meditating and just in silence, complete silence, just sitting there. And that's scary to a lot of people, right? Very, very scary to a lot of people, and it was scary for me as well. And that's the exact reason why I thought I needed to do this. We live in a world where we are scared of what's emerging within us. We're scared of our thoughts, we're scared of our emotions. We're scared of just sitting there in silence. That's alarming to me, and my thought was how the hell is building a business or living the life you want, in terms of what you want to feel, and the relationships you want to have, and the contribution you want to make? How the hell is all that going to happen? How the hell is that sustainable? If I'm not okay with what's emerging within me, right? This doesn't make sense. It does not make sense if you're scared of the thoughts that are coming up or if you're scared of the emotions, like wouldn't that be something that needs to be addressed? Like wouldn't that be something? And so, when I sat down, I'm like I'm going to meditate for six hours, and I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know what's going to come out of it, but all I know is I'm going to find out who I am. And so, for hours I just had all these patterns and all of these stories of like, oh my God, you're irresponsible, you should be doing income generating activities, right? I felt guilty, so much guilt come up, all these thoughts around why, I shouldn't do it. And as I just sat there, I allowed it. I realised these were just five year old patterns that needed love, needed to be seen. And one by one, all those patterns just started falling away. All those stories, all of those patterns just melted away. And then I just sat there and I just kept feeling what was coming up. And I was just a space that all this was emerging in. And then, that's when I started having the biggest levels of creativity and flow and alignment. And yet a lot of patterns came up. There was a lot of sadness, right? I opened up a safe enough space for more and more five year olds to come to be seen. And I had sadness around past relationships. I had so much uncertainty around money come up, uncertainty about business, and finance, and clients I had, and all these different things. I just allowed it to be there, I just welcomed it, I loved all of it. I just sat there and just paid attention to what these patterns are saying. And one by one I just resolved them and then they transcended, and then more came up and that transcended and what was left. It was just this infinite flow like you described, if you're, would you rather be in? Would you rather be in a situation where you're like, I have to write this blog or I have to finish piece of work. And we're there when we're grinding an hour, we're trying to finish this blog. But then there's moments when the blog writes, you sit there and you're like, "Oh my God, I have to get this down." And you're just in flow and it's like everything else doesn't matter, and time stands still and you just, you're flowing with this blog and it's riding you. And that's what I find is possible. That's what I find, if you build a business based on that energy, based on that pattern where it's just emerging and flowing out of you, then that's it. Then that's a pattern that's sustainable, that's a business that's sustainable, that's a business that will be focused on growth, focused on vulnerability, focused on love, contribution, all those things that you know you are, instead of the fear, lack and worry and fear that we sort of explained before. Josh: And you're not pushing against yourself, which is really important. Tyson: Exactly. Josh: You're working with yourself, with your own goals and your own mindset. And I would like in this, obviously as with a computer background, I would like in a meditation to defragging your brain. As you said, you've got all these distractions all the time. You've got more than 350, 400 pieces of advertisement that's sent to you every day in one form or another to try and promote someone's product and do something here and something there. You've got people talking to you about is this thing done? Is the timeline done? Do you have this other thing done? Is this thing paid? All these things are going through your mind all the time, and you don't give yourself a moment to just breathe. And defragging your brain is putting everything in order, putting things in the right place, finding those priorities, finding the things that are important and letting your brain do the walking for you. Letting your brain do the calculations for you as opposed to you trying to dictate what's meant to be happening. There's 86,400 seconds in the day and people don't give enough time to themselves. People give themselves heaps of time to their clients, their family, their friends, their social posts. Their liking, whatever they're doing at the time, but they don't give that moment to themselves where they're not off when they're asleep and on when they're awake. They need to have that moment of reflection for themselves. And what you were saying, again on the 86,400 seconds in a day, during the day, some are like, "Aw man, you're a dickhead." And they say something about it and you go, "Oh man, I'm so offended when they said that, I had so much respect for them. Why would they say that?" And then you're there pondering over that one small comment and it might've just been like an off the cuff thing that you misunderstood the tonality in their voice. Like "Oh man, how are you even dickhead?" And you go, "Ah, okay." And then you're overthinking that problem. I don't know. I'm guilty of that. I've had situations where I've thought of something that someone has said even years later when I saw them again, I'm thinking, Oh, you said that to me. And they probably thought about it, said it as a funny joke and they continued on. And meanwhile, your brain is sitting there stewing over this one thing that they've said that's changed around the relationship with that person. It changed around your and mindset and burnt away a lot more time than the 86,000 and then the 10 seconds that might've been that they said it. And it's eaten into the 86,400 seconds in the rest of your day or even onwards. So, meditation is in very, very needed in the society, and it doesn't need to be hard. I started off looking at a candle and breathing deeply, holding my breath for a second and then breathing out and doing that 10 times or looking at a candle in a dark room with no distractions. And that is, in my opinion, one of the easiest forms of meditation to just start. What would you say? Where would you start? Where would you go from, some of these? Tyson: I mean, I meditate a lot, but I'm not the meditation expert. I've really done to teach on it or anything like that. But I think meditation is a tool just for you to connect with yourself at a different level. So, that's the way I describe it. I call it the may-first meditation, where that's when I meditate, before I do anything else in the day, I'll just sit, I'll just wake up, go to the bathroom, get a drink of water, and then just sit down in silence for an hour. But I say meditation as the opportunity for you to hold the space, to allow what's emerging to emerged. So, if you just sit there in silence and you'll start noticing all these thoughts, you may notice some emotions. That's just the space. Because what you're feeling emotionally, you're feeling it. It's coming up so that it can be transcended. It's coming up so that it can be released. That's what I know a lot of people understand. If you have fear, doubt, why are you scarcity that's coming up because it's ready to be emerged. Like the five year old sees you as safe enough to approach you, right? The five year olds approaching you because he wants to be seen, heard, understood and loved. And the five year old feels safe enough to come to you, right to be seen. And that's what's happening when these emotions arise? And so, instead of seeing the patterns and allowing them to transcend, we're neglecting them, or resisting them, right? It's almost like going exactly going out to that five year old and saying, it's wrong you're feeling this way or go away until you feel better or you need to be fixed on how much is the five year old going to feel seen. Of course not. And so, I find in meditation, it's giving you the space for you to feel and for you to notice what's happening internally and transcend these patterns that are ready to be released. Transcending these patterns that are going to give you the deeper connection with yourself. Because what's trying to emerge is not you. Right? Another analogy is that everything that's emerging is trying to die. It's trying to die. It's trying to move on because it's showing you what you're not. You're not these emotions, you're not these patterns. You are not your thoughts, right? You're the space at all of that exists in. And so, when you can start to tap into meditation, you can start to sit down and start to, whether you are looking at a candle, whether you are in nature, whether you are just sitting there in your room and just paying attention internally. It gives you that space for you to start loving those patterns. Start seeing, start noticing, start to hear those patterns and allow them to transcend and feel them fully so that they can transcend. And so, I find meditation for me is more of a self-connection than anything. And so, there's many, many ways you can do it. But that's just the way I view it. Josh: Cool. Right. I'd agree it's all about becoming connected in your special way that allows for you to do that. So, I guess for anyone that is listening, that is worried about the recession or doesn't feel aligned or doesn't feel enough, I know that you've got the Facebook group, you've also got a course that people can look to. Is that right? Tyson: Yeah, totally. So, the Facebook group is Connect, Contribute, Collaborate. So, that's the group where there's a lot of online business owners there, that are looking to do this in a work, but then they're also looking to connect with one another and they're connecting to form collaborations, joint ventures, all those really cool business things. And they know that that group is a group of heart-centred business owners who are looking to transcend these patterns who are looking to use that excess creativity and flow to add more value to their marketplace. So, there's a lot of value in that group and it's a really cool group. It's so engaging, everyone's looking to find ways to do joint ventures and collaborations. And then another aspect we're doing is we're actually going to combine our resources, combine our business brains, our expertise, and we're actually going to start donating some time towards charity and some non for profit organisations and helping them build their businesses as well. So, it's a really, really cool group that's actually making a difference. And so, that's what makes me super excited about it and super excited about the people that are in it as well. Josh: Cool. Well, I'm definitely keen to see what comes with it and if anyone wants to reach out and see what some of the awesome work that Tyson does, definitely jump across that Facebook group, would be a good entry point to start on your new journey of making sure that you have a recession proof mindset, and you're emotionally attached to your goals, I guess. Well, is there anything else you'd like to cover off on Tyson before we cruise off? Tyson: Oh man, there's so many different things that I could talk about. But the main takeaway is to just notice when you're resisting, and notice when you're avoiding those emotional patterns and your life will take a complete flip in the moments when you actually start to drop the resistance to those patterns. Right? Every emotion is never the problem. It's always a resistance to it. And so if you want to really start shifting, then dropping that resistance, dropping the judgement of what you're feeling and actually stop feeling without resistance is where I would say the biggest takeaway is. So, if people wanting to do that work, then that's where I'm always looking to support and I think it's going to be a complete game changer for so many business owners, and that's just what I'm passionate about. So, that's what I would leave you with. Josh: Cool. I guess engaging and embracing. Tyson: Mm-hmm. Josh: Well, it's been lovely having you on the show Tyson and I look forward to some of the new cool stuff that will come through over the next few months. I've been checking out some of the bits and pieces on your YouTube channel and I'm sure we'll have some of our listeners do the same. So, if anyone has enjoyed this episode, make sure to jump across the iTunes and leave us your reviews, some loving the comments and any questions you might have to Tyson. Thank you very much. Tyson: Awesome, thanks so much. Thanks so much for having me Josh.