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In this episode, the guys talk about Joe Wonders latest car buying experience, they discuss the latest Kanye "Donda" album, the phrase "If Im too much, go find less" and much more. Enjoy and cheers! - For more Max Allotment info --- https://linktr.ee/MaxAllotment - The Cast Joe - @maxallotment Hector - @starguira Joe - @joewonderlmp Crenly - @salutetobrews Music provided by @level_13 --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/maxallotmenttv/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/maxallotmenttv/support

@schedulicity and @hairdustry presents Your Day Off podcast- Dom DiBenedetto @hairbydomd is the salon owner we all aspire to be With over 17 years experience in the South Florida, Dom is introducing a new vision for the salon experience.  Her passion to share knowledge is fierce and helping others in the industry level up is what fuels her.  You'll love this quote “ I love my career, i love my salon ,and i love my team. My calling is to educate , innovate and inspire. If Im doing one of those things Im good."#fallinlovewiththehairindustry --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/hairdustry/support

The pulse of life. Are we looking through the tragic negative lens or the positive? Whether qualities or shortcomings, whatever we focus on exacerbates Itself. Like attracts like. Awareness is our Excalibur - the rock In which It's stuck Is our subconscious and we - King Arthur - are consciousness. Never using spirituality to diminish others. Waking up from your personal 'car crash'. We are addicted to our regret, our anger, envy, control, emotional abandonment, rescuing, persecution, victimization. How are we a slave to our mind? The pulse of life has always been there. It Is our only job to get Intimate with Its purpose. If Im not my thoughts... then who am I? If Im not the roles I play In my life.. then who am I? If I'm saying my mantra.. then who Is hearing the mantra? Scorching the Illusion of control

- Jason Seiden That meant that I would gladly, if I could be the last person ever lose a child. I would I would take that on, if I could, to say it like that's how horrible it is that I don't ever want anybody else to feel it. And so other folks actually telling me that they're happy and that they're like, I think they would feel like I would feel worse, like rubbing it in.   - Jason Seiden But actually, no, you know, that's it's the opposite. Like live your life. And tell me you've opened up your eyes and you're stepping into it and you're aware of the discomfort and you're aware about the hard choices you're making and you're doing it and you're celebrating those wins because they're so few and far between. Those were, the those were the best things.   INTRO   Jason Seiden is joining me today to talk about his daughter Elle.  Elle was passionate about social justice causes, possessed of a sardonic humor.  She was insightful and creative…and she is dead.  She committed suicide after suffering from debilitating pain due to CRPS (complex regional pain syndrome) diagnosis and committed suicide at fifteen years old.    What does it mean to honor her legacy, to remember her in all her fullness?  What does it mean as a father to live a life that encompasses such a profound loss but is not ultimately defined by that pain?  Jason is articulate, reflective, and honest in this powerful conversation.    Before we begin, I’d like to thank our sponsors.  First, we are sponsored by FullStack PEO.  Providing full-service solutions for entrepreneurs and small business, FullStack manages the details so you can get back to doing what you do best, running your business.  We are also sponsored by Handle with Care HR Solutions, with engaging, interactive training ans coaching sessions, we empower you to give meaningful support to your people as they go through disruptive life events.    Back to our conversation.  First, as a sidenote, Jason was sitting outside during the first part of our conversation due to water damage and clean up crews in his house…and you might hear the birds singing under some of his thoughts.   In the months after my daughter, Mercy, died, someone reflected that there wasn’t a word in the English language for a parent who has a child die.  If your spouse dies, you are a widow.  If your parent dies, you are an orphan.  It is almost like the death of a child feels so against the nature of things that language itself can’t encompass the loss.    Jason and I began our conversation talking about the difficulty of talking about the death of a child.  Jason has founded and sold businesses, he is a gifted teacher, trainer and communicator.  He recalled putting together a presentation on the fly.   So. Yeah. So I a 19 and a half minute clip. And I lost the teleprompter halfway through. And still in one take was done in less than 20 minutes.   - Jason Seiden And then my partner at the time spent three hours trying to record the same 20 minute clip. Yep. This is hard. They said this is this is you know, I'm speaking from a much different place and I'm surprised at how difficult it is.   - Liesel Mertes One person's journey is not anyone else's. But I remember specifically in that the aftermath of my daughter Mercy dying. It felt so in. I mean, there's so many things that make it feel de-centered. And but for me, like if there's anything that I traffic in and feel comfortable in the world, it's words like it's it's been able to communicate. Similarly, you know, I have my own stories of like know what? Like I feel adept in that realm.   - Liesel Mertes And to come to a place where it's like I. I feel. It just feels different. And it felt it felt like it it have done a skill set, that it was like I'm normally so comfortable doing this.   - Liesel Mertes How could even this feel altered? Well, you're aspects of that.   - Jason Seiden And I know you well, I want to talk about the journey since losing Elle. But I think this is this is actually a great opener because it's it's true. I've journaled my entire life. I've written my entire life. I've written books. I have novel length stories that you'll never see the light of day written. And when when I wrote after her passing, I went back to read some of those journals. And some of them are very clear, like, this is a man who's in pain and who's articulate about it.   - Jason Seiden And then there's other journal entries that are just noise. It's you read those you like. Oh, that's what it looks like. It's unintelligible. It's it's it's complete. It's just you. These are not sentences. These are not phrases. That makes sense. These are, this is raw stuff. And it's remarkable. And you kind of say to yourself, I'm good with words. I lived with a thesaurus, I'm specific with them. And if I'm struggling to find just even the basics, how is everybody else going to do?   - Jason Seiden Right. You know, we don't we don't step into things that are hard. We tend to avoid things that are hard. And this is this is the hardest. So I think most people avoid grief when possible. Certainly the kind of grief that we've had. And that just means, they're completely unprepared. I was entirely unprepared for what happened. And trust me, if I could have avoided it, I would have. It's a hell of a journey to be to find yourself in particular for the first time.   - Jason Seiden And then also you are surrounded by people who are equally as inarticulate to help.   - Liesel Mertes And that's you know, that gets to also the profoundly isolating nature of grief because to to communicate where you are, like it's hard enough to just know, like, you feel like you're throwing words against a wall. But to be able to be understood by another person and that can just feel so daunting. Like, I don't even know how I'm feeling. And now I've got to find some words to have, you know, what I'm feeling.   - Liesel Mertes And maybe it's just better to be alone. You know, it can be that retreat. And to just I don't even know.   - Jason Seiden Yeah, well, I think there's a, I think there's a lot of truth to that. If I go back, I still default. I bridge that problem with something that I started defaulting to the week Elle passed. So I lost my daughter a year and a half ago. Coming up on two years, actually. And she, she died of suicide. She had been very sick prior to that. And she was in intense pain. She had a condition called CRPS. complex regional pain syndrome.   - Jason Seiden And it's it's just it's nerve pain. And it's always on. It never stops. Nerve pain, like when the dentist hits the nerve in your tooth and you hit the ceiling. And she had it in both her legs treatments for years. Nothing was was helping. It was getting worse in certain circles. It's actually known as the suicide disease because it doesn't have the decency to kill you. But, yeah, it's it's close. You know, it's terminal.   - Jason Seiden Who can live with that pain or that amount of time? So there's others, too. It sounds awful, but there's this one benefit that I got, which was despite having lost her to suicide. I don't I don't wonder. Could I have done more? Was there you write like that. Mental health is invisible. And it's real, but it's invisible and it's it's difficult as a human to accept things you don't see without wondering, could I have had some sort of control over that?   - Jason Seiden And when it's physical and you can see it, it's a little bit easier to go. I couldn't control that. That was a thing. And it was a whole conversation we could have around mental health and how it needs to be in the same category. But for, for this, what I wanted to say was in those early days, the words that it was that were most easy for people to find were were those around how Elle died, what she died of, what her condition was prior.   - Jason Seiden And I very quickly found myself initially trapped by that. It put me in the past. It put me you know, I had, had this journey of trying to help her and in all kinds of stuff was going on. You can imagine the complexity of the dynamics of dealing with, by the way, not only a crippling disease, but the most misdiagnosed disease out there. Right. It just was so I didn't want to be in that space. And it kind of struck me one day to a lot of thinking and metaphors.   - Jason Seiden And I couldn't find the words myself, but I had this metaphor that sort of hit me. I'm talking about Elle in terms of CRPS would be like talking about MLK, Martin Luther King, in terms of gun rights, you know, or Anwar Sadat in terms of gun rights. It's like, yeah, these guys were assassinated. That's true. But they stood for something else. They lived for something else. What they lived for what they died of were totally different.   - Jason Seiden To make MLK the poster child of gun rights would be to lose his legacy as a civil rights leader. What a shame. You know, you kind of you know, you'd have to kind of look at him and go, OK, technically true, but we're not going to use him for that. Like, we're not gonna make him. And I don't mean to use him. Right. But we're not going to. That's just not going to be his legacy.   - Jason Seiden And with Elle, sorry, it was just it was the same thing. You know, she was a social warrior. She lived for stuff that she didn't die of. And so I found those words and I found it. Redirecting people really helped me control my narrative. And I still do that. I still use that today.   - Liesel Mertes And tell me a little bit more about her, about some of the things that made her distinctly her and those causes. And particularly if, you know, she's she's a she's a fully fledged person behind the memory I'd love to hear more.   - Jason Seiden Yeah, absolutely. And so very early on before she was born, I just had a feeling about Elle. And I've got I've got two daughters there and I've learned first on Elle. And it's just proven true with my other daughter as well, that as a parent, my job was just to get the stuff off the high shelf.   - Jason Seiden You know, these kids coming up, they're fully formed. They're they're, a bit like flowers. Right? Do they have to for all. They have to blossom. But the flowers in there.   - Jason Seiden Nothing I could do to change the raw material. And and, you know, so Elle was very special. She, she had a wicked sense of humor. Like, just even from a very, very like an impossibly young age. Understood sarcasm. I don't know if your grandparents on your side. I mean, she couldn't because she couldn't have been like more than a year old. And my grandparents would come and babysit her for more than once. She's understanding sarcasm. Yeah.   - Jason Seiden I changed the tone of my voice. And she doesn't laugh. I flip the words around. She looked like she only laughs when it's a deadpan opposite, you know? The description is deadpan and opposite of what's true. She is following sarcasm. And it just, it was why she was always very tapped in. She she just you know, she came to this world with knowledge that you look at her and. There's no way that that knowledge came from five years of existence on this planet.   - Jason Seiden It's just kind be living proof of something bigger.   - Jason Seiden  And she had a way of getting noticed. I'll tell you one story, which is just one of our segments. When the girls were maybe 7 years old, I took to sort of overnight count drops kids leave families rent cabins, and then have a dozen families in those camps all up in Sweetwater, skier No.12 things. They did a talent show and one girl after another is getting up and doing cartwheels and walkovers.   - Jason Seiden And they're up there for ten seconds. Let me run off the stage, get going.  Elle gets up there and start a cappella singing. Don't stop believing.   That's awesome.   - Jason Seiden And the camp director stops her, runs up to the stage. Wait, wait, wait, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. And I'll think something's. She turns on all the equipment plugs in her iPod, iPod, and let's Elle do the full five, five and a half minute song scene over Steve Perry. We're all downloading on our phones. The lighter apps are holding them up like a concert.   - Jason Seiden And that was Elle, you know, just just being able to put your finger on the gestalt start of the moment and own it. And it is remarkable. And so you're kind of one of the reasons why I don't like thinking of her when she was sick was all of that power. It's not just that it went away. It never went away. So, you know, somebody with that much kind of cosmic ability gets sick, real sick. It's just it's so wrong and so far away from what she works for, what she stood for.   - Jason Seiden She was always so zoned in. So you wanted this story. This is actually relevant to her legacy. So I do a lot of communications work at my house up with certain companies and also internal internal comms. Well, politics has a role in that. And there's an immediate negative connotation to politics that people have. And so to break it out, I would give people this moral dilemma. And, you know, I just let them sit with it where they realize, OK, I may not like politics, but they're real.   - Jason Seiden I can't escape this question. Damned if I do or damned if I don't. It's one of those kinds of things. And I posed it to Elle. She's 10 years old. And Liesel, I'm telling you. Maybe two adults out of hundreds. I posed this question to and Elle heard the question and she said, well, you know, the only way to win is to not play you both these actions. Horrible. It's just a you're just choosing which value you want to violate and which value you want to maintain.   - Jason Seiden That can't be true to yourself with either. You know, I think the outcomes once you're in that position. Like, oh, my God, she's 10. And she understood that. And here so, you know, so it's, it just it felt. It has always felt important to honor, you said, who she was. Things that made her unique.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah. Those are some remarkable memories of who she was and, yeah, what she brought the color and dynamics.   - Liesel Mertes I want to talk about, yeah, the journey after her death.   - Liesel Mertes I'm, I'm struck that even as you are carrying her legacy, you, you are also shaped by who you needed to become in the midst of watching her be sick.   - Liesel Mertes What were some of the things that you noted in yourself as a parent, at that time, that shaped you?   - Jason Seiden The things that I noted as a person and same things and as a person of. Life has to be lived and risks have to be taken. The only way to not make a mistake is to not play the game. And that's so you're just not safe as a as a parent. I'd always cited my job as kind of two parts, one part keeping my kids safe and two parts helping them unlock who they are and, you know, make the most of this world. And, you know, my daughter's gone. So a very, very fundamental way, I did not keep her safe.   - Jason Seiden We can have a very intellectual conversation, Did I control her getting ill. And, of course, like, you know what? No, of course not. But it's like you're never going to tell me. I will never be able to feel that as a parent because she's gone. I. So this the game, whatever, whatever that's I was making whatever balance I was trying to strike between keeping you safe in the world or the game with her. It was frozen.   - Jason Seiden Right. It's it's lockdown. There is no no more time on the clock. There's no hope. There's no tomorrow. There's nothing's going to change. And so they're validating that recognition that there is no safe there. There is no harm.   - Jason Seiden By the way, not only do you have to play the game and not only your mistakes be made, but there's consequences for those mistakes. People will be hurt when you make a mistake. I've had to I've had to come to grips with that both as a parent and as a human.   - Jason Seiden And it's, it's, you start to see the world a different way.   - Liesel Mertes What, what does, I'm struck by how profound and. Yeah. Awful. That feeling is because so much of what we get to do living in like a wealthy, affluent, you know, society is we don't have to feel unsafe in so many areas of life. And and to feel it at such a visceral level is horrible. When you say, you know, I've had to come to grips with that. What has that looked like for you?   - Jason Seiden I don't know. That's a powerful question. I'm not sure what it looks like, but I'll tell you, it feels like things. It feels like my life before was it's just been pulled to the extremes. And I'm not dealing with any emotions that were foreign to me. I'm just dealing with a lot more of them. So it's funny, I actually said, you know, here's this girl who introduced me to stretch my capacity for joy in one direction. And then the passion stretched my capacity for sorrowing another.   - Jason Seiden On some level, like how do you just not feel gratitude for somebody who gives you more life to live? And. It shows like that.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   - Jason Seiden You're constantly playing other people's emotions at life events and realities. You have to live your life. If you live boldly, you will. Other people will be hurt. And you have to be OK with that. I'm not saying you should be indiscriminate or not care. I'm just saying to be simultaneously OK, moving in the light, doing your best, try and take care of people and understanding you can't save everybody. In fact, the act of saving one person might cause somebody else to be hurt.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. And you feel it if it goes through an intellectual concept to something, you feel very deeply and constantly.   - Liesel Mertes Elle died. And you said it's been a year and a half.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. A little more coming up on two years.   - Liesel Mertes Okay. Still, when something horrible happens like that and even, you know, the. The journey of walking with an often misdiagnosed disease. All of those things. What were you finding that you, what were people offering you in the way of, like comfort or presence in that, you know, messy aftermath? That was really meaningful to you? Or even now, just things that you'd say, "Man like these people did it really well. They came alongside me and it mattered?"   - Jason Seiden It's for windchimes. So that's, that's Elle. They went off the top of our call and I just heard them.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. So. For so long, surprised at how much. I'm not somebody who asks for a lot of emotional support. Probably not dissimilar from a lot of men that way. But I was surprised at how much I actually needed it.  They were largely, I was really struck in the immediate aftermath at how supportive people were. It was absolutely incredible.   - Jason Seiden My professional colleagues are scattered all over the country, all over the world. And without my without my engagement, a few of them, Mark Stelzner, Lori Rudiment. Susan Strier.   - Jason Seiden I had friends who, you know, without without my help. I put up a page and tribute to Elle. She she died a couple of weeks before my birthday day. They promoted it for my birthday, a tribute to Elle and I just watched, I watched for  for twenty five thousand dollars get raised in a day in honor of my daughter for a small handful of charities. The Human Rights Campaign, chief amongst them. The United Colors Foundation, which helps LGBTQ homeless youth and Burning Land, which is a CRPS foundation. And it was it was absolutely incredible.   - Jason Seiden The next thing I know, the CRPS Foundation has a grant in its name that had been funded. HRC flew a flag in my daughter's honor, which I now have. It's it was astounding. So, in the immediate aftermath, how important, it was incredible,   - Jason Seiden As you can imagine. You know, as time goes on, everyone goes back to their lives. I've had a handful of people have continued to reach out. And it's so helpful. On the homefront. Everybody here has been incredibly helpful.   - Liesel Mertes What has that continuing to reach out looked like?   - Jason Seiden Literally just a check in and a thinking of you. That is all it takes.   - Liesel Mertes I think sometimes people fear that because they think out of the person doesn't want to talk. Or what if it brings up bad memories? Maybe I just won't do that. From your experience, how would you speak into like that, that cycle of second guessing that people can have as they should. I reach out and I'm out. What if they don't want to talk   - Jason Seiden I'd go back to what I was saying before? You have to live your life. You might make mistakes. Go make the damn mistake. Engage and you know. OK. So I'll tell you, the waffling shows up. And from my perspective, as the one going through this, It shows up and I can see it a mile away and I end up in a position then of having to take care of the people who are reaching out to me. Sure. I know it's fairly common. And, you know, and you do a great sweat.   - Jason Seiden I mean, like, this is such a horrible thing. I get it. We don't spend time with this if we don't have to. I'll assume it happens to you or something you're close to. You don't have to. Yes. So the, the, the fact that people are unprepared for it, I'm not surprised. The most helpful thing, we just when people reach out.   - Jason Seiden Actually, the most helpful thing is when people would reach out and say, I'm thinking of you. I just had a lovely time with my family. Oh, great day. And I was thinking of you and I was thinking about. And I gave my kids an extra hug and I made sure I didn't take it for granted. That made me happy.   - Jason Seiden And it's, it's so funny with these people would reach out and, I can't imagine what you're going through. And I always look at them and be like, why would you take one moment of your life and try to imagine what I'm going through? But yet we all know it's horrible. Don't waste your time. Just write like it's horrible. Check the box pass, you know. You know, it's a kids with, you know. This is gross. Taste it. No, no, no. Not to me.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. It's like that. Except with consequence, you know. No. Right.   - Jason Seiden I actually loved when people would tell me that, you know, they were thinking of me and they weren't taking the life for granted as a result because that meant that Elle counted.   - Jason Seiden That meant that I would gladly, if I could be the last person ever lose a child. I would I would take that on, if I could, to say it like that's how horrible it is that I don't ever want anybody else to feel it. And so other folks actually telling me that they're happy and that they're like, I think they would feel like I would feel worse, like rubbing it in.   - Jason Seiden But actually, no, you know, that's it's the opposite. Like live your life. And tell me you've opened up your eyes and you're stepping into it and you're aware of the discomfort and you're aware about the hard choices you're making and you're doing it and you're celebrating those wins because they're so few and far between. Those were, the those were the best things. Yeah.   - Jason Seiden I mean, I will say because it's relevant. I mean, we we. We tend to think of our personal life happening in one area, in our professional life happening in another. And they don't. A decade ago, I actually coined a term, "profersonal" for, you know, this notion of the bleed over. You know, we spend a lot of time working. And so what was really surprising was how difficult that transition was without the folks on the work front doing some of that, acknowledging as well.   - Jason Seiden Not just my friends. But, you know, this is where I'm spending my time. It really helps when, when professional colleagues check in as well. Otherwise, your your work starts to feel like just this void where it's like I have to go put on a, you know, put on a mask for the majority of my day.   - Jason Seiden You know, I I think this notion of. The notion of grief at work is not trivial. It's a huge part of people's days. And, you know, I'll say I worked at it at an organization when this went down. You know, the organization I was with great culture, phenomenal culture. But this was a this was a blindspot. And it showed, and it it had an impact, like the journey could have been different.   - Jason Seiden And. What I, what I could  have done quicker or more of, I think would have been. It would have been. I could've done more. Yeah, I couldn't move through some of this faster. And. And at the end of the day, I think there's a real. You know, I I'm getting through it. I will get through it. But I think the organization lost something. And when you kind of look at large organizations with hundreds or thousands of people, here we are in COVID, and the loss is real.  People are losing people.   - Jason Seiden And there there's complicated grief happening out because they're they're unable to be with the ones they love. Now is the time to actually step into this and to have that compassion. The benefits are are substantial. They're. And they're there at multiple levels. The economic benefit, the just, the benefit to us as humans. I think it's important that our organizations step into this breach and start recognizing grief is something that we all have a responsibility for helping people through.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   - Jason Seiden You know what it is? I'll preface this by saying I don't blame anybody. It's not an area. We haven't quite evolved to this yet. I think we're on the front edge. I think people such as yourself are on the cutting edge of bringing awareness to the business environment, of the importance of dealing with grief effectively. So, you know, we're we're getting out.   - Jason Seiden We're getting a handle on DNI. And I think in that same bucket. This is this is their belonging. When you start thinking about belonging as a as a goal for DNI. Well, belonging. If you're dealing with something that nobody else is dealing with, whatever that thing is, that's your your barrier to belonging. So hopefully as we kind of move in this area, the will all get better. But, you know, it's little things. It's.   - Jason Seiden First of all, texts and messages from people are super helpful. Doesn't take much. It's just like, hey, just checking in. How you doing? The gap is experienced when you don't get those more, when the only time you do get them is on the front end of a call where you're talking about other stuff. Because, you know, I would get that from my manager. Looking back, I think the only times there were check-ins were back at the top of a call.   - Jason Seiden I'd be like, hey, how you doing? OK, great. So here's like the five things that we've got to go through today, right?   - Liesel Mertes It feels like. Yeah. Just like, hey, are you are you ready? I'm with tasks because I certainly am.    - Jason Seiden And so in, you know, like, OK, great. And so it's it doesn't count, you know. And it creates this problem with the other person thinks, I'm checking in. And you're like, no, no. You're just making sure that I'm ready to go through your agenda. That's not a check-in.   - Jason Seiden That's like.   - Jason Seiden It's like, you know, is your you know. Can you can you mute the background noise? It's it's administrative at that point.   - Liesel Mertes Different than having, a specific time that is not encumbered by any other aspects of an agenda that would, you know, crowd it out. Yeah.   - Liesel Mertes Sometimes people say ill conceived, offensive, stupid things to people who are grieving.  What were some of the least helpful things that you heard? That you say, you'd say, you know, you can do all kinds of things, there's a margin of error, but don't do this. Let me do you a favor. Don't do this.   So I'll give you so I'll give you three answers. Number one, there's always some people who are close to you who are surprising in their lack of support And so I had two of those two people who just AWOL, like shockingly AWOL. Oh, my gosh. Right. So that's. The lack of saying something is saying something. There are, then there are people who make it about themselves.   - Jason Seiden So when I was getting married, I remember the people who were in the inner circle. Right. You're a close friend. We'll get married and you find that the venue was small and you'd call and be like, dude, totally get it wherever you need to see this, totally fine as long as I'm in the venue. You do what you gotta do because you're going to have some issues here with your seating chart so you can see it coming.   - Jason Seiden I mean, it was the bubble. People like the people who were barely they barely made the cut. They're the ones who would be pissed that they weren't in the bridal party, too. They're like, dude, this is so backwards. Same thing in reverse. You know, my best friend like that. You know, Lori and Mark and Susan putting that thing together. That is so incredible. The people who showed up and who were part of it.   - Jason Seiden Amazing. And then, you know, there are the like the one or two people who who are like I was just I was appreciative that they showed up. And then I find out later they were angry that I didn't include them in the planning. And I'm like, they are so far out. They had no idea; I had nothing to do with the planning. But this was all you have a group coming together for me, like this wasn't me orchestrating.   - Jason Seiden I wasn't using Elle to. This is happening in support of her.   - Jason Seiden Right. And so that that's been that's been disappointing. You know, again, there's nothing that gets said. You just hear about that stuff sort of second hand. Right.   - Jason Seiden Then then the third part is just people who don't know what to say and you know, and they try. And I actually appreciate these people. It's it's hard for everybody. I can't tell you how many people asked me, how are you feeling today? And I'm like, you know what?   - Jason Seiden Good. Right. OK. Awesome. Like you went digging. You found the Sheryl Sandberg Plan B. Quote. And Granny read the headline and you're giving that to me. When you start getting the same question over and over again, it's it's hard. You know, I like you. You wish people would kind of real deeper or maybe find another avenue or, you know, kind of go, OK. But everybody else is saying this. So can I find the next thing?   - Jason Seiden Can I can I have the conversation to the second sentence? And so I don't want to. I want to discourage people cause it's so important to get started. I think it's just also really important to be thoughtful and to not stop at the first perceived solution. So it's not that those people said anything bad, it's that the ones who go beyond stand out that much more.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah, I hear that I'm struck. So I am reading there has been a book that that has just been published. I think it's it's called Meaning, The Sixth Stage of Grief. I'm going to check that for sure. But it's, it's a researcher who had worked with the Elizabeth Kubler Ross Foundation and after the death of his son said, you know, I feel like although these five stages that were described, they're not linear. They were never meant to be that way.   - Liesel Mertes But that the fact that an important stage for a number of people is actually the meaning that they are able to make in the aftermath of loss. Not that we. And he says there's a diversity of ways that can be another. The death in and of itself is meaningful. But there are different ways of making meaning from this and how the people who live beyond that integrate a loss or grief into their lives   - Jason Seiden Kessler.   - Liesel Mertes Yes. Yes. Have you read his book?   - Jason Seiden I have not read it yet. It's on the list.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah, I've heard him on an interview.   - Liesel Mertes It's I've appreciated it so far. It strikes me that making meaning has been an important aspect for you. Tell me what making meaning has looked like for you.   - Jason Seiden Yeah, it's some. I hadn't really thought about it until I kind of heard the concept and realized, yes. This is true. Life is really random. Right. So here's, here's something that that death does. It brings a finality to a relationship that cannot be undone. And it leaves you, you know, it's like the other side of the game. A tug of war drops the rope and you're just and you're left in this you're flying backwards stage.   - Jason Seiden Except there's no there's no hard ground to land on. There is no other person to laugh that they let go of the rope like you are now potentially flying forever in the wrong direction. And finding meaning is really for me. It's been around, you know planting my feet under me and just bringing that momentum to a stop and recognizing I can't honor Elle if I'm crumpled in a ball on the floor. I can't honor Elle if I'm in the past, you know, grieving her illness or thinking of her sick.   - Jason Seiden I can't honor Elle if I'm in the future, if I'm anxious about will this happen again and like this happen to somebody else and what if and what if I hurt somebody? And what if I'm responsible?   - Jason Seiden What if I did? None of that helps. And so for me, finding meaning has been around what Elle stand for. How can I honor her? What should I do? What can I do today that she would be proud of? And really, that's about grounding myself in the present and finding a way to conduct myself. That starts just getting through my day. Right. It's like, OK, I can't honor her if I'm crumpled on the floor.   - Jason Seiden So what does that mean? It means I have to choose to be happy. I have to choose to live like I have to choose to get up. I have to have to choose to try. So that looks like putting my feet on the floor. Getting out of bed, making the bed, making coffee, certain, basic stuff. And as and as I kind of got that underway, then it was like, OK, well, what am I doing?   - Jason Seiden What should I go do today? Well, I should be healthy. I should go for a run. You know, the CRPS attacked your legs. I'm going to go run. And I'm I'm I'm go use that part of my body that she couldn't. Because if I were you know, it's like if I want people to tell me that they're happy and they're not taking their families for granted, I have to assume she'd want the same. And so I'm going to do that.   - Jason Seiden And, and right then it cascades up from kind of the basic stuff to what am I doing, like, on a higher level and my leaving the world a better place. Am I taking care of the people around me? But at the end of the day, finding meaning has been around grounding myself in the present so that I can honor her in a way that also allows me to move forward.   - Liesel Mertes I think that there are some people who would hear something like that, you know, they would this, Elle want me to live fully and be happy and I'm purposing to do that, that for some people that can morph into, I'm, I'm just not going to think about these unpleasant feelings anymore. When they come up, it could be its own form of avoidance and pushing those things away. How do you, how do you live into that meaning without just ignoring the painful feelings that can crop up unexpectedly?   - Liesel Mertes How do you still acknowledge and honor some of that sadness and emotion?   - Jason Seiden Easier said than done. I can't say that I do that perfectly. This is, this is not a topic that I speak easily about and I actually don't speak a lot about because it is hard to step into those feelings without kind of getting lost. But.   - Jason Seiden I think. For me. If I'm totally candid there are parts of it that could feel sacrilegious. There are times where moving forward actually feels like it's gonna be disrespectful like that, the respectful thing to do would be to sit and cry and grieve and be a mess and that the way to honor her would be show her how important she was by showing her how incapable I am of moving forward without her.   - Jason Seiden And at those moments, it's a hard choice and the hard choice is to remember, we are all individual people on this planet and me doing that, me, quote unquote, honoring her in that way would be to lose two lives. So that doesn't work.   - Jason Seiden And then you get. Right. So that's, that's sort of one path. And so I just I allowed the emotions and the thoughts to kind of carry me to get to that point. And I'm like, OK, I can't do this.   - Jason Seiden It doesn't work. So even though the other side, even though moving forward doesn't feel right, I just proved to myself that sitting here in a bar wallowing doesn't work. So I'm going to go make that choice. That doesn't feel right, not because I'm drawn to it, but because I am repelled by this other thing.   - Jason Seiden And then, and then there's another part too, which is there's a piece of it that's like, well, to honor her feels like picking up her torch. And carrying that and becoming the social worker, becoming her, doing the things that. And I run into the same problem. We're different people. He, you know, I can support her causes and I am. But I'm I'm taking my time because, this happened to me. It could very easily be the thing that defines me.   - Jason Seiden And I've spent my entire life to defining myself to be something else. I'm not ready to just let this become the thing. You know, there's the guy lost. That's not who I am. What I want to be is the guy who shows people how to continue to be themselves. Even when something like this happens.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah.   - Jason Seiden And so, you know, so there's a it's it's hard, you know. What does it look like and how does it feel? Sometimes it feels sacrilegious. Other times it feels like I get selfish.   - Liesel Mertes We are drawing near the close of our time. But I'm struck in that last thing you said, you know, you are you are not just a man who has had his daughter die.   - Liesel Mertes What are some interesting things that you like about yourself that make you you?   - Jason Seiden You know, it's a surprisingly hard question.   - Liesel Mertes Sometimes it can be. I have a friend who would do that to people on their birthdays. He would be like, you need to tell all of us three things you like about yourself. I felt kind of awkward.   - Jason Seiden I live out loud. I, I, I make my mistakes. My my dad used to say, my dad says, own your mistakes. They're the only things other than your name that other people won't try and take credit for.   - Liesel Mertes And it's a great line.   - Jason Seiden It is. And in this day and age of of digital piracy, your name's not even safe. So, like, literally, my mistakes are the only things I can. So I make them and I do my best to make new ones all the time. I try not to repeat. So I live my life. I learn. I still am learning. I am still open to learn. I don't.   - Jason Seiden I know what I know. And I. I've earned my gray hair once, I don't have to earn it twice like I know when I'm in a situation where I actually have an expertise, but I am well aware that it's a great big world. And, you know, I have like, this tiny speck of knowledge within it.   - Jason Seiden So, I appreciate the fact that at my age I can still look at the world with a certain amount of wonder and to sort of get lost in it and want to know how things work.   - Jason Seiden And. I. You know, I and I'm stronger than I realized. I have a certain amount of resiliency that I'm. This has not been an easy journey, but I'm I'm surrounded by people in this club that I don't want to be in.  But,  those of us who are able to persevere and make something positive of it. I, I see the people who aren't able to do that. And I can I can recognize that I'm I mean, about I have something to offer because the boat I mean, it's the boat of people who are able to move forward. And I'm proud of that.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   Here are three reflections from my conversation with Jason.   Even if you aren’t sure of what to do or say, move towards people in their grief.In his words, “Live your life, make the damn mistake,”.  You won’t be perfect and you don’t have to be but your support matters. If you are in a workplace setting with a parent that has lost a child, especially as a manager, make time to actually check-in with them, not just as an entrée to a meeting, ticking a box so you can get on with an agenda item.This might mean scheduling a call or a meeting that isn’t about a to-do list but only about hearing from them about their how they are doing.  Navigating life after the loss of a child is hard.Jason expresses the complex, internal challenge of moving forward, of not letting himself be singularly defined by Elle’s death.  Sometimes it can feel sacrilegious or selfish as he leans into life beyond his daughter, struggling to be and become himself even after tragedy.  If you are struggling in this journey, perhaps you find camaraderie in Jason’s reflections.  And if you know someone who has lost a child, perhaps this gives you additional insight.     OUTRO

No one likes failing. But every failure hides an opportunity. In fact, what sets you above your competition may have been borne out of a failure. Combined with perspective, failure provides lessons for learning and growing. Nate Bailey is a leader and a speaker who knows how to impact and reach an audience. He recently fulfilled his long-time dream of selling his insurance agency to follow his dream of being a full-time coach. As a best-selling author of three books, Nate adheres to the simple philosophy of living what you teach. With the business landscape thoroughly impacted by COVID, Nate is busy supplying large doses of perspective. This is a time to focus on what you can control. We can’t predict how and when the situation might change, but we can be strategic in how we position our companies to respond.  Just because you may be stuck at home and conferences are canceled doesn’t mean you can afford to stop networking. There are still authentic ways to reach out to potential clients and partners. Nate explains how the details of connecting have shifted, but not the underlying principles. These times are a good reminder that there will never be a perfect time for anything. Waiting for perfection will only lead to paralysis. It’s important to recognize when something is good enough, give it a shot, and learn from the experience. What have you been avoiding because you might fail? What could get you to do it? Let’s talk about it in the comments on the episode page!   In this episode Remembering what you still have control over in your business How to reach out without going out Focussing on progress, not perfection Recognizing the opportunities that accompany failure   Quotes “If they can tell that you’re really coming from the right place and you know what you’re doing, and you do create something of need that creates value, you’re going to be fine. It’s going to come back to you for sure.”  [24:17] “If I'm going to show or tell somebody that they should do this or that in their life, but I’m not doing it, that would be super out of integrity for me. I don’t ever want that to happen.” [31:05] “It’s all about progress, not perfection. If you wait to be perfect, that’s what keeps people from launching the business.” [35:15] “Flipping the perspective on failure is great. It’s how we learn. It’s how we grow.” [38:27]   Links Find Nate Bailey online Follow Nate on Facebook | Instagram | Linkedin Download Nate’s free audiobook Sales Navigator   Additional Links: Check out the full show notes page Do you have something to share on this podcast? Fill out this form here. Be sure to take the Studio Sherpas survey for a chance to win some incredible prizes (if we do say so ourselves!) Stay up to date with everything we're doing at Studio Sherpas Tune in to our weekly Facebook Lives Follow Studio Sherpas on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram If you haven't already, we'd love it if you would take 1 minute to leave us a review on iTunes!

Motivational Speakers and Preachers Promise You a Perfect Life But that's not my thing. I'm here with a very different set of promises. If I'm a motivational speaker, I might be the worst one ever. Because you won't ever hear me tell you that everything will be good in your life if you just have enough faith. But you will hear me tell you that you can learn to be okay and have a happy life anyway. So here's a story about book reviews, an overview of why I want you to be happy, and a reminder of why self-brain surgery is so important. All in 30 minutes!

Will women date short men? Does height really matter to women? If I'm shorter than average, how can I get a leg up in the looks department and be attractive to women? These are the questions we cover on today's podcast. Brock McGoff joins us to tell us why women actually like shorter men better than taller men AND how to be confident about your height. Brock delivers some amazing advice on how to build your confidence about being short and how to improve your style so that your height is never an issue. We also discuss: - Easy ways to improve your style/appearance - Confidence and why "be more confident" is bad advice - Life as a shorter guy - style, dating, career, etc. And so much more! Guest: Brock McGoff - https://www.themodestman.com/ --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/AskWomen/support

"There's a secret that real writers know that wannabe writers don't, and the secret is this: It's not the writing part that's hard. What's hard is sitting down to write. What's keeping us from sitting down is resistance." This is how Steven Pressfield introduces the idea of resistance in his book the War of Art, and to me, resistance is the root of the "I don't wanna's." While I don't agree with many of the things in Pressfield's book (I mean, he states that ADHD was made up by pharmaceutical companies), I do think resistance is a great way to express this idea. Because when I don't want to do something, it's not necessarily that I just don't want to do it - it's that I can't get myself to start.If I'm planning on going on a run, I know that I'll feel better once I start running - but it's in the starting that I feel resistance. It's putting on my exercise clothes and slipping on my shoes. It's the getting out the door. Once I start putting one foot in front of the other, it isn't so hard anymore. I mean, sure there is the physicality that can become difficult, but the mental block has lifted. And this is just going to be an introduction to this topic. While I was writing this episode I discovered I had a lot to say and so I've split it into two episodes. Today we're going to be exploring the idea of resistance and how it keeps us from doing meaningful work. We're then going to look at some of the ways resistance sinks its claws into us, but also how we can work on loosening up that grip.For show notes go to HackingYourADHD.com/resistanceThis Episode's Top TipsResistance is the inertia that keeps us from starting. It is also the inertia that slows us down and stops us in our tracks. If we want to be doing meaningful work we need to look at ways we can fight our own internal resistance.Comparing ourselves to others is an exercise that is never going to lead us down a good path.We need to abandon struggle as a metric for success. Everything gets easier as we do it more and just because something is difficult to do doesn't mean it is more worthwhile.What we crave and what we need to grow don't always match. This means we have to work on rewiring our desires so we're not always fighting resistance to go on a walk. We can do this by being mindful and taking note of how we feel after we do things that are good for us.

On the fourteenth entry of our See It to Be It podcast series, Amy C. Waninger speaks with Vonda Page, an organizational change leader at PayPal, about her entrance into the tech space and her experience being the only in many job settings, and Vonda talks to the fact that even individuals without a STEM background have spaces for them in technology. Check the links in the show notes to connect with her!Connect with Vonda on LinkedIn.Donate to the Justice for Breonna Taylor GoFundMe by clicking here.Find out how the CDC suggests you wash your hands by clicking here.Help food banks respond to COVID-19. Learn more at FeedingAmerica.org.Check out our website.TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate. Now, look, for those of y'all who are new here, the purpose of Living Corporate is to create a space that affirms black and brown experiences in the workplace, right? There are certain things that only we can really understand, and when I say we I mean the collective non-white professional [laughs] in corporate America. And when we look around--if you, like, Google being black and brown in corporate America, you may see, like, a post in Huffington Post or something that kind of communicates from a position of lack, but I don't know if we necessarily see a lot of content that empowers and affirms our identity and our experience, and that's really the whole purpose of Living Corporate. It's with that that I'm really excited to talk to y'all about the See It to Be It series. Amy C. Waninger, who has been a guest on the show, who's a writer for Living Corporate, and who's also the author of Network Beyond Bias, she's actually partnered with Living Corporate to actually have an interviewing series where she actually sits down with black and brown professionals so that we can learn about what they actually do and see ourselves in these roles, right? So it's a variety of industries that she's--she's talking to a lot of different types of folks. You're gonna be able to see what they do, and at the same time you're gonna hopefully be able to envision yourself in that role, hence the title See It to Be It, okay? So check this out. The next thing you're gonna hear is this interview with Amy C. Waninger. Y'all hang tight. Catch y'all next time. Peace.Amy: Vonda, welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you. How are you?Vonda: I'm great, Amy. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here with you today.Amy: This is exciting for me, 'cause you and I have had so many conversations on these topics alraedy, and every time I talk to someone and we get going and we're on a roll I'm like, "Oh, I wish that I had recorded this for the show," so now we get to, which is exciting to me.Vonda: That's great. I'm happy about it. Thank you so much.Amy: Good. So Vonda, how long have you been working in the tech space?Vonda: It's so funny. You know, I was thinking about it, and I've really been in the tech space for about 24 years, and the last 20 exclusively, and it's interesting because I really got into tech organically because I never was necessarily oriented towards math, towards science or, you know, digital technology, and the way that I got into the tech field was I originally started working in the restaurant business, right, in bars and restaurants, some chain places, some local places, and as different restaurants were getting online with different computer systems, they would need a person that could teach everybody how to use it. And I was always a really good trainer. My background is communications, always really good at, you know, processes and helping people learn how things work, and so they'd say, "Okay. Well, you know, we're getting a computer system, and we need you to train people." And I'm like, "What?" So they give me the big fat book, the big fat manual, you know, the operating procedures, and I have to review that, and it would be interesting because after looking at "Okay, this is how the technology works," I had to compare how are we currently working and what is different, right? So in a restaurant back in the old pen and paper days, right, before iPads and all that fancy stuff, people would come to the table with a paper and a pencil and they would write it down. So when we started to adopt computers and different types of technology, I had to look at "What's the delta between how we're operating in a non-technical way," right, without technology, and then when we move to using technology, what's that difference? So the way I got started was really helping people move from, you know, the paper and pencil onto using different computer systems.Amy: I think that's fascinating. I have a story that I would love to share with you if you don't mind. I went to one of the--you know the really cheap hair-cutting places? I took my kids there one day, and their computer system was down and they didn't know what to do. They were frozen. And I looked at the woman--and I was an analyst at the time, you know, kind of like what you're describing--and they're like, "Well, we can't cut hair because our computers are down," and I said, "Why do you need a computer to cut my kid's hair? Can't you just use scissors?" And they kind of laughed and she's like, "Um, yeah, okay," and so she got out a piece of paper and the first thing she said was, "What's your phone number?" Well, that's the identifier they used in their system to look up what haircut he'd had the last time. I said, "You don't need his phone number. You need a #2 guard. Cut his hair." But they were just so lost 'cause they had been training on how to use the system, not how to do the job, right? And so what you're talking about is the reverse of that, where people come in not already indoctrinated to the technology and now they have to learn to do their job with it.Vonda: Exactly, and then there's that balance of using the technology with the actual process. So the process of cutting hair in your example is perfect, right? You use scissors or you use clippers or you use a combination. You use a comb. Maybe you have a spray bottle with some water. You need that whether you have a computer or not, right? If you're in a restaurant, you need pans and pots and food, right? And you need that, right, whether you have a computer or not. So, you know, it's a very similar thing, and it's so interesting, but that's really kind of how I got started, and for me, I grew up with computers, right? I learned as the technology advanced, and later on in my career I worked exclusively in tech. So now for the last--yeah, since 2000 I've been exclusively in tech, and a lot of what I do is really helping companies when they decide to change a technology, whether that's through an upgrade, whether we are retiring something to bring in something new or just adding new features, I help the company or the team determine "What is the strategy we need to implement that technology change so that we don't have an adverse impact on the business, on the employees or on whomever that change is gonna impact?"Amy: One of the things I think is so interesting about that, Vonda, is that you didn't come in from a technology standpoint--and I think I've had some other folks on the show that have worked in technology, that are pure technologists, but I think it's important for people to understand you don't have to be a technologist to work in technology, and in fact, the tech sector needs people people, right? If you say, "Oh, I'm a people person," my goodness, does somebody in tech need you. Vonda: Absolutely. And it's so funny because, you know, even now every now and then somebody will ask me some kind of technical question. Like, a friend of mine yesterday was asking something and I said, "Listen, I really have no idea." Like, "I've heard of this thing you're asking me about, but I'm not--" And she was like, "Well, you've been in tech for, like, ever," and I said, "I've been in tech, but I'm not a techie." And so what's interesting in the tech field, and what I do is I work with a lot of engineers, a lot of extremely technical people, a lot of architects, and while their expertise is really based in the system and how things are built and how things are connected and put together, they need support from the standpoint of somebody who can take all of that, what they're talking about, and help the business as well as, you know, the community that's gonna be using that technology understand what is it, how does it help or impact me, and why do I want to use it, right, and what is the benefit of it, and sometimes a technologist will say, "Well, it's great. It has all these great features. It does this," and they'll say, "It does," right? So they'll say, "The tech does this," and my question to them is, "Okay, so how does that affect, you know, Suzy? How does that affect Rohit? How does that affect Carmela?" So you're making changes to technology. You're putting enhancements in. You're building things on top of apps or creating features, but what is the people side of that? So one of the gaps that I have seen over my career in the technology field is that people sometimes leave out that we are creating technology for people. The technology is to be used by people. So you have to think--okay, if we take the example of earphones, right, or listening devices, right, and you think about "People need to use this for what? To either block out sound, to focus sound, you know?" What is it that people need it for, and then how do we build it or talk about it so that it matches what that need is? And that really requires, you know, the ability to ask a lot of questions and to be--like, I take a lot of notes. I pull in different people that have different areas of expertise for a particular technology. So sometimes in a phone call or in a conversation there will be an engineer and an architect and a product manager and a project manager that's somebody that's kind of herding the cats and all of that, and then you have other subject matter expertise that may be connected to that particular application, right, or that particular business process. So it's really important to have the soft skill of communication, that you can pull in those different perspectives, you can ask those different questions, you can get, you know, people talking, because a lot of times, technologists, they kind of work inside their own head, right? And so helping them come outside of their head with certain questions, especially open-ended--you know, how will this help John get his work done? How will this make it easier for the customer to execute a transaction? And really helping to articulate that for the technologist so that the business can say, "Oh, we know why you're making this change, and we're gonna make sure that we support it."Amy: Absolutely, and I've spent so much time in those roles. I'm just nodding along like, "Yes, we need a translator between the two worlds," becase they do speak different languages often. So I want to switch gears just a little bit, Vonda, and I want to ask you, especially 24 years ago when you started working in tech and, you know, sort of had a toe in the water but still way too much tday, I would imagine that you are not swimming in a sea of other black women at work.Vonda: No. It's so funny. So I just moved to a different team, and I was the only, only black woman. And I'm in a new team that has more women, but still the only black woman, and what I have found is that throughout my career I'm usually the only black woman--and every now and then there may be a support staff person, like a project coordinator or an administrative professional, but not usually. And so, you know, I've learned to be comfortable in that role, right, and to just really not let it hamper how I'm gonna perform. I don't shy back if I have a question. I ask it. If I'm running the meeting I'm running the meeting, you know? If I am trying to accomplish specific outcomes for a project or a meeting, I state what they are, I let them know "These are the critical success factors for getting it done," and, you know, no matter what I kind of keep on fighting, right? But it is very difficult, because what happens--and I'm sure, you know, in your work and in this inclusion space have had conversations with other black women who, you know, you get into this space where you know what some of the obstacles and challenges are going to be, but what you have to do is just drive ahead, right, and as you experience more and more circumstances, right, whether it's in meetings or whether it's in presentations or whether it's in, you know, any kind of group effort where you have to do things, you have to kind of go into it knowing that you might not get the support or the cooperation. Amy: So where do you get the reserves of energy that it must take to walk in every day knowing that--and forgive me for saying this. I mean, I'm gonna just kind of lay this out, right? Knowing no matter how good you are, no matter how great a job you do that day, no matter how great a job you've done for 20 years, there are probably no people who look like you above you in the food chain at your company, and your shot at getting there is pretty low.Vonda: Yeah, and it's interesting, 'cause--so I do two things. So one thing I do--and it's funny. So one thing that I do to mentally prepare myself is when I know I'm gonna have a challenging day, especially a day that I'm gonna be expending a whole lot of energy, I really make sure that I kind of have a ritual that I do, right, and part of it is the way I take care of myself, right? So I do a lot of physical exercise, 'cause I feel like when my body is strong, that helps me be mentally strong and emotionally prepared. That's one thing. I try to also listen to motivational music. So, like, I listen to a lot of hardcore--not hardcore, but, like, inspirational rap music, right, and I call it my mental warmup. So I have a playlist of, like, Beyonce and Kendrick Lamar and Drake and, you know, Jill Scott and different people, but I have music that kind of talks about, "Hey, things are hard, right, but you can do it," and so I use music and my physicality to help with that, but the other thing I do, Amy, is I have friends, right, and colleagues and associates that I'm close to that I know I can call to vent, right, and I can say, you know, "So here's what's happening. Am I looking at this, you know, in a way that doesn't seem right?" So that really helps. And I also go to therapy. I love therapy. I am a big advocate for people trying to take charge of their own mental health and mental well-being. And I talk to my therapist, right, and my therapist is a white guy in his 40s, and, you know, I look at it as--and we have a great relationship, right, and I look at it as--you know, and I think he does too, as he's my sort of--like, sort of... I don't want to call it a check, but my support from the standpoint that I can describe a situation or what it is, and he'll say, "Wow, that is really terrible. That must be really hard for you. How do you feel about that?" Amy: So I'm really glad that you brought up therapy, because I know, you know, among--particularly among my black friends there's a lot of stigma around seeking therapy because it's viewed as weakness or a lack of faith, and so I want to thank you for sharing that. That's very vulnerable. And, you know, I think it helps people when other folks come forward about those kinds of things, right? About prioritizing mental health, and particularly in a community that has cause for, you know--I mean, you're in a lot of collective stress, especially right now. I do think it's so important. Where do you go at work to find community when there are so few people who look like you in this place?Vonda: Yeah. So I'm funny like that, Amy. I seek out the black people. Like, I literally look for the black people. So I look for any face that I see that is of any shade, and I say, "Hey," and I walk up to people--you know, pre-COVID, right, I would walk up to somebody, a stranger, you know, and be like, "Hey, I'm Vonda. Who are you? What team do you work in?" Sometimes I just get on LinkedIn and I look for people that work for my company, and then I reach out to them on LinkedIn and I'm like, "Hey, we work at the same company. Here's my User ID. Why don't you Slack me when you get to the office?" Or something like that. So I make a purposeful attempt to reach out to people, and then I just kind of build it up from there. So I'm--and I don't know where I learned this. You know, I guess--my under-grad degree is in communications, my graduate degree is in communications. I've always been a very communicative person, you know, and so I will just reach out to somebody and say, "Hi, I'm Vonda. We haven't met. Can I put 20 minutes on your calendar just for, like, a 1-on-1 intro chat?" I've never been told, "No, you can't put 20 minutes on my calendar," I've always been told "Absolutely," and then I just kick it off like that. "Hey, I'm new here," or, you know, "I saw you on campus," or "Hey, I stalked you on LinkedIn, and I just wanted to say hi and find out what you do. Are there any other black people in your department? What's your experience like? If you ever need to talk, let's talk." And fortunately, you know, a lot of companies nowadays have ERGs or employee resource groups. Some companies call them affinity groups. That's a really good way to meet the only, because in a large company, you know, especially in tech and in high tech, they're probably the only in their team or the only in their department. So, you know, everybody is sort of craving that sense of "Oh, there's somebody that gets me. Oh, there's somebody that looks like me." So I bet you they're experiencing some of it, right? So when you're looking at gender the experience is a little different, right, for black men versus black women, because the way we're perceived, you know, in society is a little different, but we still are, I find, in tech usually the only. I would say, other than my colleagues who work more in the non-technical spaces, right, my colleagues who work more in, like, customer operations type of roles, you'll find more black women, right, in those roles, right? So it'll be more in those teams, but in the highly technical ones, everybody is usually the only, and when you are the only, you know, as you said, you do feel like "How am I gonna get to that next level? Because there is no one that looks like me," right? And if there was, you know, a black woman that might have had, you know, a high-up job, maybe she only stayed at the company for a couple of years or maybe she moved on--and it is difficult, but there's a part of me that feels like even if I can't make a significant enough change to maybe see it, I'm at least helping the next generation. So for me--and I guess it's part of the mom in me, right, is I want to help the next generation so that when they get to high tech in the corporate world they're not the only, but if they are, they know "Okay, here's how you need to navigate," right? You have to walk in realizing that the same perceptions that people have out of the corporate space, like, those are the same perceptions that get carried into the corporate space. And really, as you said, there's no amount of excellence and tenacity and accomplishment that will, you know, change that for people, but what you can do is change for yourself, you know, how you approach it, and if you have the information, right, to be able to say, "Okay, I am prepared that my ideas might not get traction. Okay, so then how do I start to build a coalition of advocates, right, and other, like, friendlies to help build that up? I know that if I'm presenting I might get interrupted, so what do I need to do about that?" So I have lines already memorized and prepared in my mind, right? So if I'm speaking and someone interrupts me, I say "Hey, can you hold your thought, John? Because I wasn't done," and then I finish, right? And I serve as an advocate to everyone. It doesn't matter male or female, black or white, Hispanic, Indian, it doesn't matter, and those things I think make a difference.Amy: Absolutely. So just in closing, what advice do you have for people who are maybe wanting to break into tech who maybe are not technologists but certainly, you know, have questions about how to get started. Where would you send them to kind of start this journey?Vonda: Yeah. I've thought about that a lot, because tech is here, and it is going to continue to grow and move into a bunch of different spaces. One of the really growing areas in tech right now is really around data science and data analytics, and I would encourage people to do at every stage of their career, right, whether they're in college right now, just finishing up high school, early career, mid-career, is really just start looking at some of those trends, right? So for example, you could just do a quick Google search on technology trends, and you'll see AI, you know, automation, artificial intelligence, and data science. Those things will pop right up, and the recommendation is really know a little bit about a lot, right? But just enough. You don't need to know, you know, all the deep down nitty-gritty details of what everything means, but if you have some familiarity, you know, "What's the conversation around automation these days," right? What's the conversation around Cloud? What's the conversation around data science? Have familiarity with the conversation around that. LinkedIn is a really great resource to go in in the search, and you can either type in, you know, the title "jobs" and type in, you know, a couple of titles, right? You can type in "data scientist," you can type in "automation," and then you can start to see, "Okay, these are some of the fields, and these are the criteria." But I would tell people even if you don't have a STEM, you know, type of background, science, technology, engineering and math, even if you don't have a STEM background, there's a space for you in technology, because we have to balance out the technologists, right? We have to balance that, and you really need strong communication skills, strong engagement skills, the ability to think not all the time at the detailed minute level, but to be able to look at things from a macro level, from a 30,000, 50,000-foot level. Be able to think about strategy. So if somebody asked me to do X, why did they ask me to do that? What other goals does it match up to? What's the bigger picture? And if you can understand the bigger picture, then that is a leg up, because in my experience folks that have a very specialized area of expertise and they only--let's say they know 90% about that and they know very little about other things, those are the people who really struggle. So you want to be--you know, not a jack of all trades because you can't, but you want to know a little bit about the big things, right, and then when you need to deep dive into them you do more. So, you know, I was on a call yesterday about some cryptography stuff, right? I haven't worked on cryptography--which they say crypto--since last year. So I had to go back and kind of read some of my notes and refamiliarize myself. "Okay, so for crypto here's what we're looking at, right? We're talking about how things are transmitted and are we making sure that the protocols are secure." So it's just a matter of knowing a little bit, and sometimes I'll be in a conversation and I'll say, you know, "I'm the least technical person here," and they're always like, "No, you seem like you understand it." Well, I understand it enough, right, to be able to articulate it, but if you ask me to, you know, write the scripts for it or--no, I'm not doing that. So I think it's really a few things, really understanding them, and just using your communication skills and your personality. And don't feel like, you know, because you're not an expert in something that that doesn't mean you're not valuable, because really most of those people aren't experts, right? And so I guess that's kind of where the impostor syndrome piece can come in for people. You're not an impostor, right? You know what you know, and there's enough resources out now that you can do research, right, to get the amount of knowledge that you need necessary to do it and do well.Amy: Vonda, thank you so much for sharing your experience and your wisdom with our audience. I really appreciate you.Vonda: Thanks so much for having me. It was a pleasure, and I look forward to talking with you soon.

SUMMARY: DYB Podcast EP78 brings Ben Campbell of Campbell Painting and Drywall in Anchorage, Alaska to the show. From the very beginning, his family started a couple of paint retail stores in the 1950’s in Alaska. Then Ben started his company in 2006 with his brother and went solo in 2009. He shares his very relatable early mistakes to his current successful company with 15+ employees, on track for $1,000,000 revenue for 2020. Ben shares how overcoming huge adversity helped build his drive and grit. Though he wouldn’t want to go through the obstacles again, he looks for the positive and what he can learn from each situation to learn and grow and not give up. He also shares his strategy for hiring and keeping a great team. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: How Ben uses his individual USP (Unique Selling Proposition) to set him apart and grow his clientele Ben's strategy for hiring painters and keeping a great team How technology helps Ben streamline his business Ben's organizational strategy for crew leaders How to empower a team to do their best work How to avoid and overcome the negativity around you Lastly, an encouragement to those who are working "in the bucket" and want to get "out of the bucket" to run a streamlined business QUOTES: 04:39 "(When you started) How did you generate your leads? Word of mouth was basically it at the beginning. We had yard signs and did some networking at church, but it was mostly word of mouth." 21:01 "Keep grinding, you know, that's all I wanted to say. Just keep grinding and it will get better, but learn from your mistakes. You know, if you did something wrong once, don't do it again. If I'm bidding a job and I didn't make money on it, well then why didn't I make money? Ask that question." 09:02 "Why don't you do much new construction? There are a lot of great builders, but the bottom line is, painting is an expense to them. They want to keep their expenses down, so they don't use the highest quality paint that we do or want to spend time making the job perfect, like we do." 21:28 "There's good money in what we do." LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: TSheets GPS Time Tracker Quickbooks Online Compound Effect by Darren Hardy Ben Campbell ADDITIONAL FREE RESOURCES: Schedule Your Free Strategy Call With Steve Burnett   Thank you very much for joining us today! If you received value, would you take a quick few seconds and leave us a review on iTunes, please?   Press and hold to visit the page: Show Notes Page  

Show Resources: LinkedIn Learning course about LinkedIn Ads by AJ Wilcox: LinkedIn Advertising Course LI Recommended Audience Sizes MS Quarterly Release Ep 287 of LinkedInformed Podcast Bidding Budgeting Episode Contact us at Podcast@B2Linked.com with ideas for what you'd like AJ to cover. Show Transcript: How big should your LinkedIn Ads audiences be? Hearing conflicting advice? Let's clear that up right now. 0:15 Welcome to the LinkedIn Ads Show. here's your host, AJ Wilcox. 0:23 Hey there LinkedIn Ads fanatics. There's a lot of conflicting advice out there about audience sizes for your LinkedIn ads. And I get questions about it all the time. So I figured we'd go ahead and clear that up. We've tested about every which way you can think and we've come up with our own strategy for what types of audience sizes work best. So let's definitely get into it. First off the news. This week, Microsoft had their quarterly earnings release. And this was super interesting to me. I actually heard about this from the LinkedInformed podcast by the great Mark Williams if you're not already subscribed to that podcast, it goes over the organic side of LinkedIn. And it's absolutely brilliant. In Episode 287, he goes over this in his new section. And even though LinkedIn isn't actually publishing these stats, Microsoft is. So Microsoft says that LinkedIn's revenue growth is up by 21%, which is fantastic. And they also mentioned something really cool and really key. Sessions are up 26%. Oh, I love this. These aren't stats that LinkedIn is sharing too often. But if Microsoft will share them, I'll take them. He also mentioned in this episode that an unnamed source, let this news outlet know that conversations on LinkedIn are up 55% in March, and comments in the newsfeed are up 272%. So similar to what we've talked about in previous weeks with cool COVID news happening. I know nothing's really cool about COVID, but there have been some cool things coming from it. I wanted to highlight a few of the reviews that you guys have left. Betsy Hindman in Nashville, who's a good friend Betsy, thanks so much for listening. She says "AJ is the real deal. Great podcast. Super guy. Very knowledgeable." Thanks so much for leaving that. Then Robinhfr from France says "really helpful. I love this content, so much value in this podcast". Robin thanks so much for leaving that it means the world to me. Maria Cole mentions "the most knowledgeable LinkedIn Ads experts out there. AJ knows more about LinkedIn than anybody I know. His podcast is full of amazing insights and knowledge. Often I find myself agreeing with him out loud while listening". Oh, I love this. I hope all of you are kind of nodding along if if we're striking a chord and touching on things that you found through experimentation, Oh, I love to be geeking out with you. Go to whatever podcast player you're on. And leave us a review. I would love to help feature you. Okay, with that being said, let's hit it. When I was very first getting started running my very first LinkedIn Ads back in 2011. I read the recommendation that LinkedIn recommended 300,000 in an audience. And this was back when the only ad format we had was text ads. And text ads, as you know, average somewhere around a .025%. click through rate, which is incredibly low. Then in 2014, LinkedIn came out with the sponsored content ad format. And I was absolutely certain that these recommendations were going to change because text ads had a .025%, click through rate and sponsored content had 12 times the engagement. But sure enough, for years and years afterward, I still see LinkedIn recommending 300,000 for an audience size. I definitely think that there was a good reason to have 300,000 as the audience size recommendation, but now that the ads can literally spend 12 times or more, I think there's a lot more opportunity to tighten up our audiences. So we'll go into how I use smaller audiences and why. But it's important to understand the history here. And then adding to that the minimum audience size on LinkedIn used to be 1000. But then back in 2017, in April 2017, LinkedIn came out with matched audiences the retargeting product. And at that point, the minimum audience shrunk from 1000 down to 300. And I'm so grateful, thank goodness this happened, because the tighter we can make our audiences the better. Now I checked out LinkedIn's Help section on this and link to that is in the show notes. They say for sponsored content and sponsored messaging, we suggest a minimum of 300,000 audience size. For text ads, we suggest that you target between 60,000 and 400,000. Okay, so that's LinkedIn's recommendations. For some reason text ads are recommended to be a smaller audience than sponsored content, something there I'm not understanding. My recommendations are if you're using sponsored content, try to stick between about 20,000 to 80,000. If you're using text ads, try 20,000 to 80,000. Hey, how about dynamic ads? 20,000 to 80,000. Oh, AJ, I understand where you're coming from. How about sponsored messaging? Oh, AJ, I understand where you're coming from, you're gonna tell us 20,000 to 80,000? No, I'm gonna change the script on you a little bit. For sponsored messaging. I love to start with ultra tight audiences because they are able to spend so much more. But when in doubt, stick between 20,000 to 80,000. And you'll be pretty safe. Okay, so why are our recommendations so different? Why would you listen to LinkedIn versus our advice? Are you getting such differing opinions? It's important to understand where LinkedIn's motivation is, because to LinkedIn, it is a significantly larger risk for a new advertiser or a less sophisticated one to come and test out the platform come and try things out. And then not spend any money and then leave and go tell their friends that the LinkedIn Ads Form didn't work, they didn't get any traffic. So they would much rather that you had a large audience size. So you were pretty much guaranteed to spend your whole budget. To me though I have a very different motivation here. To me, it's all about getting the best performance, the highest efficiency, and the best data out of an account. And so I use these tightly themed audiences. They act like little silent focus groups, which I'll tell you all about here in just a little bit. So certainly, if you don't have the expertise on the platform, and if you're listening to this, I'm guessing that's not you. But then you'll want to follow LinkedIn's advice for audience sizes. It's pretty much foolproof at getting you to spend your budget without expertise. You may not spend very efficiently, but certainly all of those dollars got allocated. If you do have the expertise and attention to manage smaller campaigns, then you will get so much more control and insights out of your account, and you'll get a tighter ability to optimize and find efficiencies. that you shouldn't, quote unquote be able to do realize that as we're talking about audience sizes here, audience sizes are totally subjective. I can't just tell you that an audience size of 30,000 is a good thing or a bad thing, because that's totally dependent on number one, how active that audience is on LinkedIn. And number two, how often people are clicking on your ads. Because if you had a minimum sized audience of 1000 people, but you have 100% click through rate, you could probably still spend a healthy budget. Of course, that's probably not going to happen, but you get my drift. Even a small audience that's very active, can spend more than a large audience that's largely inactive. There are certainly risks with both styles of campaigns here, you can have campaigns that are too small and there are definite risks there. And then you can have campaigns that are too large, and that has its own set of risks. So first of all, if your campaigns are too small, there's a really good chance that you won't spend enough, you don't have enough people in those audiences, and all else held equal, small audiences won't spend as much as large audiences. Maybe if you are dedicating the time to build these audiences, but they don't spend very much, maybe that wasn't worth your time, maybe you see that as a waste. And then maybe you've got these small audience sizes, which means you're not going to spend very much, which means you're not going to generate a large quantity of leads. So maybe you have internal pressure in the company that not only do you have to spend this budget, but you also have to hit a lead goal. And then finally, if data is accumulating slowly, it means that we can't make optimization decisions because we're dealing with these small data sample sizes. Well, hang on, because I've got a cool solution for you that I'll cover here in just a few minutes about rolling data. And all of these risks are totally mitigated by yes, we build small audiences, but we build lots of them. So together they act like large audiences. Separately, we still get data. So hang on, I'll break that one down. I know that gets a little bit ethereal. But what about having campaigns that are too large? If you're taking LinkedIn's recommendations, which we don't recommend, I think the risks are even higher. So number one, you can have too many different people in there. So I'll give you an example. Let's say you had a campaign where you had both finance and operations professionals in the same campaign. Well, let's say finance professionals do amazingly well. But operations folks are terrible. If you're looking at the results from that campaign, it might just look average, it might be okay. And you missed out on the fact that if you would have split those out into two separate audiences, you would have found that wow, finance professionals are killing it for us. So you're missing learnings about your audience, you're losing that ability to understand more about what they care about, and really who your ideal target audience really should be. Also, audience that are too large, they spend budget too fast. So if you have a small budget, let's say you're running something at the minimum of $10 per day per campaign, if you have a large audience, chances are you're going to blow all of your money in the middle of the night before your audience even gets into work. So really, it shouldn't be about what your budget is, on a per campaign basis, it should be finding the right budget per audience. And of course, listen back on episode six, where we go in deep on bidding and budgeting to find out more about that. Okay, I'm going to give you an example. And this is a real world example of the type of targeting that we would build. A client comes to us and they say, our target audience, our marketing decision makers, at companies with more than 500 employees. So I go and build this campaign in LinkedIn. And I see a target audience size of 360,000. And this is in the US. According to LinkedIn recommendations, yeah, an audience size of 360,000 is fantastic. But I looked at that and went, man, having everyone from manager all the way up to cmo represented in a single campaign. That doesn't tell me anything. So what I did is I broke that out into four separate campaigns. One that is marketing job function with manager seniority, at companies with more than 500 people, of course, I did the same thing, but instead of managers, it's directors. And then the same thing instead of directors, it's VPS. And then finally, I have one just for the the chief marketing officers. There are 160,000 managers, 160,000, directors, 58,000 VPS, and then only 26,000 CMOS. So breaking these into their own campaign, your LinkedIn rep will definitely tell you, ah, these audiences are too small. You should really make them larger. But what I've done is taken the same two ads and put them in all four of these different campaigns. And notice, I'm still targeting the same size of audience. It's still 360,000 total senior marketers, no one made it in that audience that wasn't supposed to be there that wouldn't have been there from the beginning, I'm still able to spend all of my budget. But now I actually have information, I have data about which levels of seniority, engage with my ads, and how and even how they convert. And I can keep following them all the way through the sales process, and learn more about what it takes to get a CMO to a sales qualified lead status, versus someone who's a, let's say, a marketing manager. Okay, we're gonna take a quick sponsor break and then we'll dive into the Goldilocks zone for audience sizes, and actually how to create them. 12:44 The LinkedIn Ads Show is proudly brought to you by B2Linked.com, the LinkedIn Ads experts. 12:53 If the performance of your LinkedIn Ads is important to you B2Linked is the agency you'll want to work with. We manage LinkedIn largest accounts, and are the only media buying agency to become official LinkedIn partners. And of course, performance to your goals is our only priority. Fill out the contact form on any page of B2linked.com to get in touch, and we'd absolutely love to help you demolish your goals. 13:17 Alright, let's jump into where the rubber actually hits the road with these tighter audiences. So we've talked about audiences that are too large, and some that are too small. Let's talk about the Goldilocks zone of those that are just right. And if you remember, last episode, we talked about the Goldilocks zone with spending enough on ad creative to get statistically significant data. The same principle applies here with the audiences as well. We're constantly looking for the right mix between learnings and spend. We want audiences that are small enough that you can actually still learn something valuable about what makes up that audience. And we also want them large enough that you can actually spend enough budget to tell and get any of these learnings. So let's say you have these large audiences and you want to break them up so you can learn more. So how should you break them up? Well, I want you to break them up by whatever you want to learn about my go to is to break them up by seniority, like that example I use with marketers, I broke them up manager, director, VP, and C level. And this is really good because it helps with content creation. If we're performing really poorly with the C suite, like with CMOS in this case, we can then go to the client and say, Hey, your content is not resonating with CMOS, you should change the content. Here's what they seem to like. That's data we can pass. You can also break up by geography, because we know that different cultures are going to respond differently. So for instance, I wouldn't want the US and Europe in the same campaign if I could help it. Of course, if campaigns are, if these two audiences are so small, and I have to combine them in order for them to run then sure, I'll do it. But I know that the cultures are different. And so I would much rather keep them separate and learn about those cultures. I really like to break them up by company sizes as well. Even if you know that any one company size 500 and above is a good fit for your product, even breaking them up by let's say 500 to 1000, and then 1000 to 5000. And then 5000 and above can be a great way of learning "do we work very well in mid market in enterprise in giant companies, even fortune 500" can be a cool way to do this. I also like to break up audiences by job function. Like that example I shared before with finance and operations in the same campaign, I would always want to keep them separate because they're going to care about vastly different things. In short, cut your audiences by whatever meaningful segments that you want to learn about. And these tend to be very broad things. I wouldn't cut my audience by let's say something like job titles or skills or other things that might be too narrow. I want these to be very broad categories. And then if you have a large audience size, don't just cut it for the sake of cutting it. Like, for instance, saying, hey, this audience is twice as large as it should be, I'm going to create two different segments, one targeting just male and one targeting just female. If that insight about how men and how women interact with your content and offers wouldn't actually be a meaningful insight to you, then don't do it. I've seen people break things up by interest, or by a college degree, or something else that they didn't really care about. They were just going for an arbitrary audience size. Yeah, don't do that. It's just not worth the effort. Okay, so here's the gold here, how do you make use of audiences that are micro segmented? Well, this is the B2Linked strategy. This is where I'm about to drop some real value bombs on you. If I take an audience of senior marketers. And I break them up into their levels of seniority and timezone. So we're talking some altra tiny audiences here. If I do that each single campaign may be getting results really slowly, it might be spending $5, $10, $15, $20 a day or something like that. If I'm looking at these individual campaigns, I'm probably going to get impatient. Or I might not be able to make optimizations because these data sample sizes are too small. Ah, but here's what I can do. I can start rolling these campaigns, their performance together with other like campaigns and start to learn things about it. With a single pivot table in Excel. I now have enough data for understanding performance by timezone and I also have an understanding of performance by level of seniority. So each individual audience Yeah, it's too small to care about, but when I roll them up to all other campaigns with a similar trait, and I compare These things in aggregate, now I actually get some really valuable information and insights. We recently did this with a client where we've got about 200 campaigns in this account. And they are defined by targeting type, seniority, geography, and company size. Now, granted, they're a large spender, but I was able to build a model that shows what our cost per sales qualified lead is by each type of targeting by each level of seniority, by their geography, by company size. Do you know how valuable that is? As the account scales up, we know exactly which campaigns to bid up and get aggressive with, to maintain extreme account efficiency as we go up. I'm sure many of you know that you really get a choice between scale and efficiency. If you're going to scale up, you're going to lose efficiency along the way. Well, we've got a great way and how we don't actually lose efficiency as we scale and that is because As of this, this microsegmentation, giving us tight controls over every little aspect of an account. And conversely, if the client came to us and said, we have to cut budget, we know exactly which campaigns to cut out first. Maybe they're okay. They're not total losers. But if I have to cut budget, I'm going to cut the worst performers first, for sure. And that means as we scale back, we actually get also more efficient. So many of you may be listening and going, Oh, man, it feels like a lot of work to manage an account with 200 campaigns. Is it worth it? Absolutely it is. If I managing an account with 200 campaigns, versus what it might be at maybe 20, otherwise. The level of control that I have over efficiency, as well as the learnings and insights I can get about every variation of their target audience. I absolutely guarantee that that is worth the extra time you have to spend creating ads, and I also guarantee your competitors aren't going through this much trouble. for managing the account, you will get a leg up on them. Okay, so should you force audience sizes? No. If the audience is larger than my 20,000 to 80,000 recommendation, but there just isn't an intelligent way to slice it. Leave it alone. Don't just aim for arbitrary audience sizes. There are some benefits to larger audience sizes, like you can actually get lower cost per click sometimes, because you have a higher probability of being able to bid the absolute minimum or lower and still spend your budget. And conversely, if your audience is smaller than our recommendation, should you add irrelevant people to the audience to make it larger just to fit this mold? No, absolutely not. LinkedIn is way too expensive of a channel to ever spend a dime on someone who isn't your ideal, perfect audience. What about if it's too small? Should you just not run the campaign? Is it not worth your time? Well, ultimately, I'm going to leave that up to you. I still think it's valuable. If you have an audience size of 300 people who are Perfect for what you do. Yeah, sure that campaign may never really spend a lot of money. But boy, any money that that does spend, or any lead that it generates will be well well worth your time. So ultimately your audience sizes will have to be what makes sense for you. Don't let someone else tell you what size your campaigns need to be, especially if what you're doing is working. But hopefully that at least provides a guide for you. Okay, I've got episode resources coming up for you right after the break. So stick around. 21:35 Thank you for listening to the LinkedIn Ads Show. Hungry for more? AJ Wilcox, take it away. 21:43 Okay, here in the show notes, check out the LinkedIn recommended audience sizes in their help section I've linked right to it. You can at least see what they recommend and why. And in the new section I told you about Microsoft's quarterly update report. The links there, go ahead and check that out. See what Microsoft says. about LinkedIn performance. Also, I mentioned Mark Williams, the LinkedInformed podcast, there's a link there to his Episode 287, where you can hear his commentary on it as well. If you're just getting started in LinkedIn Ads, check out the course that I did with LinkedIn Learning. It's only $25 if you're not a premium subscriber to LinkedIn, and free if you are, and it covers the same stuff that in a one on one training, I would be charging $500 an hour for. This could be also really good. If you're trying to train coworkers or new recruits in on LinkedIn Ads to help support you then check out this course it's fantastic. Whatever podcast player you're on, look down right now and make sure that you are subscribed. And then please review the podcast I would absolutely love to share your review with everyone and give you a shout out. Any ideas for the show any thing you'd like us to cover, reach out at Podcast@B2Linked.com. And with that being said, we'll see you back here next week. Cheering you on in your LinkedIn Ads initiatives.

If I'm gonna tell it, then I gotta tell it all Damn near cried when I got that phone call I'm so throwed, I don't know what to do But to give you part two of my confessions....

Show Resources: LinkedIn Learning course about LinkedIn Ads by AJ Wilcox: LinkedIn Advertising Course COVID-19 insights and resources for advertisers The digital advertiser’s guide to COVID-19 Bidding Budgeting Episode Contact us at Podcast@B2Linked.com with ideas for what you'd like AJ to cover. Show Transcript: How much money should you budget for your LinkedIn ads? We'll break it down cleanly so you know exactly how much to dedicate. Welcome to the LinkedIn Ads Show. Here's your host, AJ Wilcox. 0:20 Hey there LinkedIn Ads fanatics, I get asked a lot about how much advertisers need to budget for their LinkedIn Ads. It's usually prefaced by, "Hey, I know you're gonna say it depends, but I'm gonna ask anyway". Well, the truth is, I love this question, because I actually have a straightforward answer to it. And I'm eager to teach you all about it. We'll be covering in this episode, specifically, how much on average you'll need to spend to get the results you're looking for, as well as how long you'll need to actually spend this budget over. Okay, jumping into the news. Last week, I gave you some really cool stats about what's changing from LinkedIn's perspective during this whole COVID situation. And I was going through that material trying to find some new insight. And what I found was LinkedIn gave me access to something that Microsoft put out, which was their resource for COVID-19 insights and resources for advertisers. So I decided to take a peek through there and see if there was anything of value. What I found was a document entitled The Digital Advertisers Guide to COVID-19. And I got really excited. This is right up my alley. And so I started reading and what occurred to me is that it definitely came from Microsoft. It said exactly what you expect it to say, from a company who makes a lot of money from paid search. They talk about how paid search is the most profitable channel, blahdy, blahdy, blah. And while I do agree that capturing the bottom of the funnel through search intent is extremely valuable. As you'll know if you listen to episode nine of this podcast about Google versus LinkedIn. I would say though, that during the whole COVID panic, there's been panic that has caused budgets to get pulled back. And so while people are still exploring purchase decisions, there is some reticence or some hesitancy to sign contracts right now. So search channels that are bringing people in right now who you're assuming are ready to buy is probably going to result in a high cost per opportunity or a high cost per closed deal. And as you know from Episode 19 search tends to bring in lower quality leads for a product or service that tends to be high cost. You'll get a lot of people acting like tire kickers and mom and pops who can't afford you. So even though Microsoft published this, and probably a lot of it is accurate during a non-COVID time. I personally think that LinkedIn is the channel that you want to invest in now to fill your sales pipeline amidst the current uncertainty. Now is the right time to be starting those relationships that weren't going to close for 3, 6, 9 months anyway. And you're filling them with exactly the right people who are going to be able to buy Okay, as a quick review, highlight, I wanted to highlight the next three reviews here that were left on the podcast. just.zee from Spain said "This one is a must. I'm truly enjoying listening to this show. Each episode is packed with tips. No BS pure gold." Thank you so much just.zee, that's exactly what we're aiming for here. Then a Mr. Bradshaw from the US says "soothing voice, better than calm. AJ's voice is buttery smooth. I used to pay for a subscription to calm but now I listened to AJ as his voice is sooth me into deep, deep sleep." John Bradshaw is actually a good friend of mine who left that as a joke. So John, I'm still shouting you out. But you know, I've listened to my voice. I know it's not buttery smooth. So I hope I'm not breaking your senses of pitch or good vocal practices. Then Sam McRoberts of the US says "AJ is a LinkedIn Ads wizard. This podcast is chock full of LinkedIn advertising wisdom from a guy who knows more about the platform than any other advertiser. Hands down, highly recommended." Sam is a another friend of mine. And he actually runs his own podcast and he's one of the worldwide SEO experts that I learned from. So Sam, thanks so much for leaving the review. Your review means so much to me, because I know your status in the industry as an SEO Pro. And I would love to feature you in this section, feel free and please go and leave a review so I can shout you out. And with that being said, let's hit it. 4:29 Now when we talk about budgeting, there are two different kinds of budgeting that that might bring to mind. There's the kind that's like, over a specific amount of time, this is how much budget you have to allocate to a channel. And then you have the daily budgets, like the platform you might enter in and how much you are only going to allow the platform to spend per day. If you're hoping to learn what you should be spending per day, we covered that pretty well in Episode Six, the bidding and budgeting section. So we're not going to be covering that here. Instead We're going to be talking about how much money you need to dedicate on usually a monthly basis. But some people plan their their budgets by quarter or maybe even by two weeks sprint, by year, etc. And for most performance advertisers we are interested in how much do we have to spend on a platform to really invest and learn something and evaluate whether the platform should receive more of our future budget or not. But at the same time, not spending so much that we're spending inefficiently. So there's a little bit of a range here, and I like to call it the Goldilocks zone, spending enough to learn and test and optimize properly, but don't spend too much that you wasted money. You want to spend just enough right in the middle of that Goldilocks zone. And of course many of you know the fairy tale of Goldilocks and the Three Bears where Goldilocks comes in and finds that the Papas porridge is too hot. The baby's porridge is too cold and the mother's is just right in the middle. So that's where we want to be with advertising. And we are going to talk specifically about amounts that you should spend based on averages. And of course, this means you'll want to spend thoughtfully and with an efficient strategy, which is why even advanced PPC pros end up hiring us. I mean, anyone can do this themselves. But there's a lot of value in bringing on someone who can cut past that learning curve and ensure that every dollar is spent properly. So any spend spent on inefficiencies is wasted and it won't teach you anything. I'm going to mention statistical significance quite a bit through here. And I really just want to spend a moment and define why it is and what it means. So statistical significance in advertising to me is looking at results and being able to trust the outcomes as being something that I can predict to continue happening in the future. And there are lots of different percentages of statistical significance. In digital marketing. I've been taught to hold everything to a 95% confidence interval. But it's important to know that if you're only being held to a 90%, or maybe an 82%, or something like that, that's okay. That just means that your numbers will all shift lower. And you may be able to make decisions a little bit faster than what I suggest. I also want to mention something about outliers, because there are some outliers with extreme performance that you can spot very quickly. And so when you've spent $200 at the very beginning of your platform spend, and you have a ton of opt ins and conversions. That's an outlier. That's a really good thing. But it also means that you don't necessarily have to spend what I'm telling you to spend to finish evaluating the platform. You struck gold already. And then conversely, if you've spent $1,000, and you don't have a single opt in yet, you don't have to continue spending more and more and more to try to get statistical significance, because your performance is so poor that chances are even if your performance did increase significantly, you would probably still be paying too much per opt in. But most of your tests are going to land in between somewhere not an outlier. Even if performance looks a little bit good or a little bit poor, you'll need a lot more data gathering. So if something is very wrong or very right, you can get your answer a lot more quickly than here. And you probably don't need to wait for significance. Or maybe you could test it, you already have significance, especially if performance is great. Everything here I'm going to be sharing with you is based on benchmarks. So if you haven't listened to Episode 15, all about benchmarking, you'll want to make sure you go and do that. And the reason why is everything here is based off of averages. And so if you're paying more than the baseline, $8 to $11 per click, it means you'll have to spend significantly more to get the same level of data that I'm talking about. And of course, if you're paying less per click because of advantages that you learned from episode six of this podcast or maybe your advertising in a location like outside of North America, or in different languages where LinkedIn charges significantly less, then that means that you can spend significantly less budget to still reach the same levels. Also, if you are pushing people towards a high friction offer, like talk to my sales team, get a demo, buy something, you'll need to spend much more than what I recommend to get statistical significance because you need a large volume of conversions coming in. And when you have an offer that has a low conversion rate, then of course, you'll need a lot more of them. Conversely, if you have a conversion rate that's significantly higher than 15%, then you'll reach significance much faster and you can also spend less to hit the same level of significance. And then finally, if your sales team isn't as buttoned up, or your nurture sales process isn't as efficient, you will need to spend more because you won't have as many Sales qualified leads or proposals or closes the steps deeper in your sales process to figure out how you're going to get to a return on your investment. 10:10 Okay, so let's jump into what spending on LinkedIn actually gets you. Because here's where I get to get really concrete with numbers, and why I love the question about how much should you budget for LinkedIn. And of course, there are a lot of nuances like you've already heard before. And of course, we'll say a lot of ways that it depends, but we'll get to all of those shortly. And let's get into the concrete numbers here. Okay, so if your goal is to get statistical significance around your click through rates, you can usually get that in North America across all of my benchmarks with about $1,000 in ad spend. What you'll learn here is you'll figure out which messaging or motivation gets people to take action, it gets them to click. And so let's say your ad copy. You have one version that is aspirational. It makes people feel like the Hiro, and another one that's fear based telling them that if they don't use your product or service that something bad's going to happen, they'll lose their job, or they'll look dumb in a board meeting. Within about $1,000 in ad spend, you'll find out how your precise audience relates to those motivations. And this can be really helpful if you're just testing. What does my ideal audience like? What are they willing to click on? What are they curious about. Then yeah, you really don't have to spend that much. 1,000 total dollars gets you that. And then, of course, depending on what kind of offer and how you're bidding, it will likely get you some leads along the way as well. But I wouldn't worry too much about leads at this low spend stage. Now we get to what I really recommend for a new advertiser coming into the platform, I recommend spending $5,000. What this is going to get you is statistical significance around your conversion rates, as long as you're starting with assets that convert between about 10 to 15%, which is actually average for gated content offers. What $5,000 in ad spend is going to get you on average is somewhere between about 45 to 93 opt ins. Now, if you are splitting this between either two separate offers, or maybe it's the same offer, but you have two different motivations on ad copy, what you will likely get is 95% statistical significance on which of these offers or which of these ads converts better. You'll also get enough leads to actually see the impact on the business. This isn't two or three, onesy, twosies coming through. This is enough leads that you can actually look at and evaluate at some scale. And of course, a certain percentage of those are going to turn into marketing qualified leads or sales qualified leads, which will start to give you an idea of how these leads are quality wise and how they're going to start moving through the funnel. And when you go and talk to your sales team or you talk to the owner, you'll see that you're getting enough leads to actually get anecdotal Feedback from those teams or from the owner on lead quality. It's not all just about the actual numbers. It's about the perception of them by the sales team as well. You need their buy in to realize, yes, LinkedIn ads are amazing. And we should continue to fund this. Because most of the business to business that we run on LinkedIn Ads has longer sales cycles. Statistically, you won't have a closed deal in your first month. But you will statistically end up closing at least one of the leads you generated during month one. But just realize, you know, these long sales cycles, if it usually takes you 6, 8, 12, 15 months to close a deal, you can't expect LinkedIn to be magical and close deals faster than they usually close. In fact, it's a social platform, meaning that they weren't already at the bottom of the funnel. So the sales cycle traditionally takes a little bit longer. So give yourself a little bit of space and set those expectations properly internally, so that no one's expecting LinkedIn ads to be turn it on. Get instant ROI. And be a silver bullet. Okay, so what if you're saying, Oh, AJ, you're talking about 1000 $5,000 budgets, those are tiny, we have a much larger budget to work with. Well, this is fantastic because what you'll get is a statistically significant test every $5,000 in spend that you do. And it means that you can test much faster, you can run multiple tests at a time, you can actually run tests over a 2, 3, 4 day period. And keep seasonality, keep your timeline really tight, so that seasonality can't creep in and ruin or spoil some of your results. So use that as an opportunity to test more, test faster. Okay, here's a quick sponsor break, and then we'll get to dive into the timeframe over which you actually spend this budget. 14:47 The LinkedIn Ads show is proudly brought to you by B2Linked.com, the LinkedIn Ads experts. 14:56 If the performance of your LinkedIn Ads is important to you B2Linked is the agency you'll want to work with, we manage LinkedIn's largest accounts. We're the only media buying agency to be official LinkedIn partners, and performance to your goals is our only priority. So fill out the contact form on any page of B2Linked.com to get in touch, and we'd love to help you absolutely demolish your goals. 15:19 Okay, let's jump into timeframes here. So what I have been talking about here in the past is spending $1,000 to get significance around conversion rates and cost per conversion. But you might be asking yourself, Well, maybe I don't have that level of spend on a monthly basis. How long do I have to actually spend? Now, I do recommend this on a monthly basis for a lot of different reasons. But it's important to understand that when we're looking at statistical significance, we're looking only for a collection, a pool of data. We're not taking into account necessarily timeline. So if you are patient, if you have executive buy in to run that $5,000 budget Over the course of five months, feel free. But my warning to you is that when we've worked with clients doing this, even when they say they get executive buy in, inevitably, someone will get impatient. Your boss will come to you, the business owner will come asking during month one and say, "hey, how is LinkedIn ads looking?" And of course, the proper answer is quit asking you moron. This is we need a lot more data here before we actually call it. But some people tend to let their their pride their ego and shoot from the hip a little bit. And a lot of times, they'll come and say, well, it doesn't look like it's working. Let's cut budget and push it to somewhere else. So if you can speed it up, if you can even save your monthly budget up until you have a, let's say $5,000 for a month. What it's going to do is allow you to avoid those seasonality sways and not allow anyone to get impatient. All right. So let me give you an example here on seasonality sways. If you are spending over For a five month period for a test, and you happen to go over the month of December, which for B2B is terrible, or maybe you're going over the summer. The summer usually has a pretty significant lull. Or what if you were advertising from February on. And it just so happened that your tests landed in the middle of the COVID panic, these are all things that would really significantly sway your data and make it so your data is going to be a little bit messier, or you may not be able to rely on it. So if you can force all of this into a single month, do it. And what I also like about this is that you'll be getting statistical significance monthly. So that means a new test every single month, so that you're learning. And of course, if you do this for one month, and you get enough data to say that, wow, LinkedIn ads is not working well, for us. It's a poor performer. If I'm paying an agency to manage it, I would sure love to know by the end of month one, but the channel isn't for me. So I can quit and not pay another month of management fee just to draw that out. Now, we've worked with a lot of different advertisers. And of course, they are all over the board, all different offers all different industries, all different sales cycles, and all different lifetime values. But what we find is, on average, our clients are spending between about $1,000 to $4,000 in ad spend to close a deal. And of course, it does take testing and optimization to get to that point. So maybe starting out, they were trending for 2, 3 times higher than that. So that's why I told you in Episode One, that I recommend LinkedIn Ads only for those with a high lifetime value for prospecting a new customer. But once you've optimized a little bit. Once you've found the formula that works and we'll talk about ammo alignment here in just a minute. Once you've found that formula, you'll really start to feel like your LinkedIn Ads are working for you not working against you. Because we work with so many different accounts and we work when we find what the averages are. I'm very sensitive to when, quote unquote growth hackers come in and talk about, hey, on LinkedIn ads, I put 30 cents into it, and I generated millions of dollars in revenue. So while yes, maybe they are telling you the truth, maybe they're not just blowing smoke, I want to suggest that you don't expect the same outcome for you. Be realistic. And that's why I've given you the benchmarking episode. So you can approach this thoughtfully and not just expect that tomorrow, you're going to close a multi million dollar deal. There certainly is a level of serendipity and luck associated with advertising on any channel, really. You may accidentally get lucky on your very first ad launch and get 7% click through rates on your first ad, and it got you cost per click under 50 cents. We've had several clients do this. And then conversely, you are statistically just as likely to totally bomb and do really poorly. So you do want to set proper action. Don't set the expectation that it's going to be like the growth hackers talk about how someone found a hack somewhere and you can replicate exactly the same thing. The rules to LinkedIn ads are exactly the same as every other social platform, you need to get alignment in your AMO. That is my acronym for the three things that you need for a successful social campaign. This is AMO, it stands for your audience, your message and your offer. Episode 14 goes more into depth on ammo alignment. But here's the basics. Your audience is who it is you're targeting. So you start by going for the very most core of people who are feeling the pain that your product or service solves. The error message is how people actually see your ad. What's the ad format? Which imagery are you using? What ad copy are you using to try to motivate them to get interested? And then O is your offer. This is what you're actually asking people to do, your call to action A lot of times this will be a piece of gated content on LinkedIn. And so what we're really testing for in the early stages of testing LinkedIn as a platform, we're trying to find where your audience, your message and your offer are aligned. Because when they are in alignment, you'll see crazy results. And LinkedIn becomes something that is predictable. It's a lead generation machine. And when you're not in alignment, it feels like you're pulling teeth to try to make the platform work. It feels difficult to get LinkedIn to give you traffic, or you just have to spend money endlessly to try to coerce people into converting. So I've shared a few warnings here before, but I want to just re emphasize this, because I want everyone listening to this podcast to look extremely successful and look like the heroes in your either agencies or in house role. So first off, don't spend a few hundred dollars and then make a determination on the channel. Because the real value of LinkedIn is not in the cost per click. If you're trying to get the lowest cost per lead, go to Facebook, if you're measuring your channels just on cost per lead, or just on cost per opt in, LinkedIn will always look extremely expensive. But the real value in LinkedIn is the targeting to make sure you're hitting exactly the right people who are likely and able to purchase from you. So the real value is tracking all the way down to the cost per sales qualified lead or some kind of qualified stage. Because when you're tracking all the way to cost per sales, qualified lead, that's when LinkedIn starts looking really good compared to other platforms, Facebook and Google included. So be realistic until you've spent thousands of dollars you likely won't have enough data to make the call about conversions unless you have a runaway success with 65% conversion rates, which we've seen before, but certainly not often. Another word of warning here is don't cheap out on the platform. If you stand to make $50,000 off of a closed deal, don't approach it. LinkedIn with a few hundred dollars, and then assume it's not a good channel when it didn't make you money. Realize that a deal that is worth $50,000 over the lifetime is a much higher consideration type of offer. And it's going to take more time. And it's going to take more deliberation on your clients perspective to decide to close that deal. So the higher your lifetime value, the more you will have to invest in LinkedIn ads to make it work. So if you're doing what I recommend, and you're budgeting $5,000 a month for LinkedIn ads, and you're seeing a lot of opt ins come in and then quite a few of those turn into marketing qualified leads, and then maybe 20%, 30% of those turning into sales qualified leads. If you see this progression, you won't need a close deal to tell you that this is a good channel, you'll see the data accumulating and starting to graduate through the stages and that will tell you that yes, even though I'm not closing deals right now even though we are not revenue net positive here. We feel comfortable continuing to invest in LinkedIn Ads. It's producing, it's likely to be a good channel for us. If you are extremely limited on budget, let's say you have a very small budget that you have to spend over a long period of time, and you want to maximize that. Make sure to listen to Episode 14 of this podcast because we go specifically into small budget strategies on how to make sure every dollar is spent efficiently so that you get the best chance of success on the platform. Okay, I've got the episode resources coming right up. So stick around. 24:38 Thank you for listening to the LinkedIn Ads Show. Hungry for more? AJ Wilcox, take it away. 24:46 Okay, those resources I talked about in the news. Microsoft has their COVID-19 insights and resources for advertisers. It's broken down actually by industry. So depending on what industry you are, you can go and look and see what But some of the effects that they've measured are. And do keep in mind that the majority of their insights come from a search perspective, so they may not be as valuable to you as a social marketer. But I know many of us here in social marketing came from a search background. And so it might still be interesting to peruse, over. And of course, the digital advertisers guide to COVID-19, the ebook, I've linked to that here in the show notes below. So check that out. And of course, if you are new to LinkedIn advertising, the best course I have for you is the LinkedIn Learning course on LinkedIn Advertising, I happen to be the author, so I've put the link to the course down here below. But what I want you to understand is right around an hour, this course teaches you what I would teach you if I were doing a one to one training over the course of about an hour and a half. And in person, I'm charging $500 an hour, the course only charges $25 for the whole course. Or if you're a LinkedIn premium member, it's free to watch those. So Highly recommend, check out that course. And please, whatever podcast player you're on, do subscribe to this podcast. If LinkedIn Ads is important to you as a channel in your digital marketing, then I want you to have every leg up possible. So do subscribe, make sure you catch all of our future episodes. And please do rate and review the podcast I would especially love to see your reviews and I don't mind if they're critical, feel free to write it down on me. I want to improve this podcast. So if you have any ways to to improve, maybe still leave a top notch review, but reach out to us at Podcast@B2Linked.com with any critical feedback, anything you'd recommend, anything you'd like to see or hear. Okay, I'll see you back here next week. I'm cheering you on in your LinkedIn Ads initiatives.

 If you're feeling extraordinary stress because of events in the news, you're not alone. This week, Stacey talks to Dr. Mark Heyman about simple things people with diabetes can do to manage better (and give themselves a break). Dr. Heyman is a diabetes psychologist and the Founder and Director of the Center for Diabetes and Mental Health. He was diagnosed with type 1 while in college. Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! In Tell Me Something Good – parents going an extra mile to make their kids feel included and a big challenge ends but we'll talk about "T1D 24/7" This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! More information on mental health and diabetes: ADA Behavioral Diabetes Institute  ----- Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode Transcription Stacey Simms  0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop created for people with diabetes by people who have diabetes, and by Dexcom, take control of your diabetes and live life to the fullest with Dexcom.   Announcer  0:17 This is Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  0:22 This week, let's talk about stress. And let's talk about the not so great effect it can have on diabetes. Now you're in a cycle of not just physical issues, but emotional ones, including guilt.   Mark Heyman  0:35 The guilt comes from I think a lot of times people feeling different or still don't. They're all alone, and that everybody else with diabetes is doing great. And I'm the one who is having trouble.   Stacey Simms  0:46 Dr. Mark Kaman is a diabetes psychologist and founder of director of the Center for diabetes and mental health he was diagnosed with type one in college, we're going to talk about some simple things we can try to do to manage the stress that these days Seems to be unrelenting in Tell me something good parents going an extra mile to make their kids feel included and a big challenge ends This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Welcome to another week of the show. I’m your host, Stacey Simms, really glad to have you along. If you are new, we aim to educate and inspire about type 1 diabetes by sharing stories of connection. My son was diagnosed with type one right before he turned to he is now 15. I don't have diabetes, but I have a background in broadcasting and local radio and television news and that is how you get the podcast. This is not the show that I thought I would be doing this week like many podcasters I have an editorial calendar I don't always stick to it, obviously. But I have things planned out and I have interviews that are you know in the can waiting to be aired, but I thought this was a really good Subject to talk about right now. Because as I just said, I don't live with diabetes, but boy, we are all living with stress. And I thought, what are some things we can do to figure out how to better live with diabetes or with you know, whatever your health issues might be, everybody has something, I have my own autoimmune disease, how can we just take care of ourselves in a time where this news, as I said, just seems to be unrelenting? So I put in post in a Facebook group Diabetes Connections of the group, which I hope you're in, by the way, if you're not, please join it. You know, I was really worried about her everybody was holding up. And so we talked about self care. And we had a really nice thread of comments. Of course, that's still there in the group. If you haven't seen it yet, take a look at your own, maybe get some advice from it. But I also I decided to call in the experts, and I very much appreciate Dr. Heyman jumping on with me. We hadn't talked before. He was more than willing, and I'm sure we'll have him back on again, and I'll get to his interview in just a minute. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop and One Drop is diabetes management for the 21st century. One Drop was designed by people with diabetes. For people with diabetes. One Drops glucose meter looks nothing like a medical device. It's sleek, it's compact, it seamlessly integrates with the award winning One Drop mobile app, sync all your other health apps to One Drop to keep track of the big picture and easily see health trends. And with a One Drop subscription you get unlimited test strips and lancets delivered right to your door. Every One Drop plan also includes access to your own certified diabetes coach have questions but don't feel like waiting for your next doctor visit. Your personal coach is always there to help go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the One Drop logo to learn more. My guest this week is Dr. Mark Heyman. He is a diabetes psychologist and a CDE and the founder and director of the Center for diabetes and mental health Mark was diagnosed in college right before I mean immediately to weeks before he had a long planned trip to Paris, and he talks about that we get to that at the end of the interview, and I asked him a little bit about his diagnosis story. But I wanted to talk to mark about how we can handle the mental load that has just been relentless all of this year, I'll come back at the end of the interview and just tell you a little bit more about how I've been handling things I've done some things I think are good. And some things I know haven't really been helping, but we'll talk about that after the interview. Here's my talk with Dr. Mark Heyman. Dr. Heyman, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so eager to hear what you have to say. And I know you're busy. So thanks for jumping on.   Mark Heyman  4:37 Thanks for having me, Stacey. Appreciate it. How are you doing?   Stacey Simms  4:41 I know, that probably wasn't the first question you expected as the psychologist but, you know,   Mark Heyman  4:45 how are you doing these days? You know, I'm hanging in there. It's you know, I think that it's a strange time to be a psychologist as well as to just be someone living in this world. You know, we're, you know, we're all kind of trying to process the news on a daily basis. And, you know, I have A 16 month old middle daughter, so trying to take care of her and juggle my work and childcare and kind of all of the stress there. So I think overall, I'm doing pretty well, but definitely am feeling the stress and stress of what's going on with COVID. And with the rise and with the the unrest that's happening right now. So thank you for asking,   Stacey Simms  5:20 Oh, my goodness. Well, it is, as you say, it's such an extraordinary time. And there's really no words left anymore. It's such a cliche, right? We all get those emails in these challenging times in these extraordinary times. But as you said, we've had this COVID situation for months now. It's sort of built on low boil, and I think we kind of learned to live with it in the background. And then of course, the events of this past week. Protests, riots, questioning a lot of people, even if they're not physically doing things and leaving the house, trying to figure out, you know, where do I stand? What do I want to say? We're all on high alert. Where are you telling people that you're speaking to to, to kind of I don't want to say Step back, necessarily, but maybe break it off into smaller bites, what do we do?   Mark Heyman  6:05 Yeah, I think there's a couple of things that we can do. The first is recognize that everything that we're feeling right now is normal, that anybody else in that same situation would be feeling would be feeling unsettled and unrest, feeling stressed about, you know, what's going on in the world right now. I think oftentimes, we have these situations where we feel we're feeling something and we feel guilty for feeling it, I shouldn't feel stressed, I shouldn't feel I shouldn't feel x. And I think that taking a step back and recognizing that, you know, these feelings are really normal. The next thing is really to talk to other people and to be able to vent to have some have a sounding board table to get your feelings out. Because that doesn't necessarily make the feelings go away, doesn't make them better. But certainly to be able to share about other people and get get affirmation and get validation for those feelings, is a super helpful thing that we can do as a way of processing And then also taking a step back. And, you know, recognizing that Yeah, the world is in a in a tough spot right now. But also, we don't have to over engage with what's happening. We have we taking a step back and taking a break from social media sometimes just that taking a break from the news can be a really helpful thing to give yourself some perspective. So that when you dive back in and learn about what's what's going on in your car, take start thinking about what you might be able to do to help the situation. You can see that from a fresh perspective.   Stacey Simms  7:33 Yeah, I think especially in a time right now we are we are being challenged to pay attention. And you know, and I can only come to this through the lens of what I have, which is a white suburban mom, right? You know, we're being challenged, pay attention. You know, learn, speak up, let other people know what you're thinking. But that doesn't mean be on twitter. 24 seven, that doesn't mean you have to watch all of the news is that what I'm kind of hearing you say   Mark Heyman  8:01 Yeah, I think that one thing that we think is that if we that we want to be in control, not necessarily of the situation, but certainly be in control of our feelings and be in control of our, our environment. And I think that one one thing that one way that people try to get control over those things, is they do something called over engage, they engage with the news, and they end they get involved with it, because they feel like the more that they know that and the more that they see the the ever changing landscape, the more control they'll have. And I think that that's a it's a certainly a valid point. But there's also some of the downside to that. Because Because as you're following Twitter, you know, constantly, it's stressful, and you're constantly looking for the changes, and that's stressful. And the reality is, is that on a minute by minute basis, nothing's changed. Nothing's changed in a sense that is going to really probably change what you do or how you react and so yeah, take take a step back and and recognize But over an aging doesn't actually help with your stress and sometimes they can actually make your stress worse and you know, increase it as well.   Stacey Simms  9:11 All right, let's bring diabetes into this because that's really you know, this is all about here on Diabetes Connections. And I don't live with diabetes, but I am I'll be honest I'm worried maybe it's a mom thing and I see the people in my Facebook group and I'm we're part of this larger community you live with type one. I mean, stress is bad for anybody but on top of type one diabetes. I'm gonna sound like a hypocrite because I was talking to this with my husband last night and he was pointed out I live with an autoimmune condition. I have ulcerative colitis laughing at me like why are you worried about diabetes you have to take care of yourself to which I really not, I'm not eating great. I'm not exercising like I normally do. So again, bringing back the focus to diabetes, but I guess any chronic condition you live with type one. Are you feeling more stressed? On top of diabetes   Mark Heyman  10:02 Yeah, I definitely am. I'm definitely feeling more stressed because I mean for lots of reasons one is that you know, I you know, I'm a stress eater so when you know when I when I'm stressed out and when I'm around food like that's that's one of my coping mechanisms for better or for worse and so that doesn't do great things for my blood sugar's also just stress in general is definitely impacting my blood sugar's but I'm seeing you know a lot more variations than I had before as well as sleep certainly my sleep isn't great because of the stress right now and when when out sleep while my blood sugar's definitely are hot running higher which makes me not feel great but also makes me more frustrated. So you know I'm a I work with people with diabetes and help them manage their stress. I certainly have a lot of those same stresses and so it can be a challenging a challenging thing to balance. One thing that I've done to really, really kind of helped myself is a couple of things one I had been really intentional about exercising. Luckily, I have a little bit of flexibility in my schedule and so I'm able to exercise on most days and I find that starting my day off that exercising helps my blood sugar's and also helps my stress. Also just cutting myself some slack and being kind to myself around my blood sugar's recognizing that, you know, I'm doing everything that I can to manage them the best that I can. And sometimes they're not gonna cooperate. And that's true anytime, but especially to when we're in a time of stress, where with all these other variables going on, just, you know, being kind yourself and giving yourself some grace and some slack can be really helpful and recognizing the time will pass. And that that will that may be a time where we can be much more intentional about our diabetes management, but also, it'll be smoother sailing, hopefully, because the stress won't be a compounding variable there.   Stacey Simms  11:53 Well, and that's such a great point because I was going to ask you and you pretty much answered it, but you know, when when someone With with tight diabetes control or someone who really is trying to manage Well, you know, if they have a very stressful time like this and their management, I'm gonna put this in air quotes, you know, slip. So you're seeing higher numbers or more variation. And then I think a lot of people have have guilt on top of as well. How do you deal with the guilt and not blame yourself? You mentioned trying to like dial back and see the bigger picture, it's not gonna last forever. Is that one of the things you'd recommend?   Mark Heyman  12:29 Yeah, I also think that, you know, connect with the community, whether that's on Facebook or Twitter or Instagram or in real life you can and recognizing that everybody else is going through the same thing and everybody else is having, you know, more erratic blood sugars right now. It's really valuable because the guilt comes from I think a lot of times people feeling different or feeling like they're all alone, and that everybody else with diabetes is doing great. And I'm the one who is having trouble and that's why I try to be really Open about you know, the challenges that I have with my blood sugar's like with like with my patients off kind of take out my phone and show them my CGM graph and show them that my blood sugar's are nowhere near perfect, because it makes them feel like you know, it takes some of that thing of that guilt away of recognizing that Yeah, I can certainly make better choices sometimes. But diabetes has a mind of its own and being okay with riding those waves is is critical for our mental health. Because if your only metric of success is keeping your blood sugar between those lines, and yet the only way you can not have stress in your in your diabetes life is by having perfect blood sugar's you're setting yourself up for failure. So we need to have a different way of looking at it.   Stacey Simms  13:45 Every once in a while mark, I'm just I'm stopped. I I can't even imagine what it is like to to live with type one just so much that you have to do and I have somebody you know, I have my kid in my house that I've we've accepted for 13 and a half years and everyone's While I keep thinking, gosh, it is really such a burden. But that's neither here nor there. You know, but just to hear you put it like that. I'll probably take all of that out.   Mark Heyman  14:08 But the way, let me say something there is, I actually try, I actually encourage people not to use that word Burg, because it kind of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. You say diabetes is hard. It's such a burden. And you're right, I'm not gonna argue with you there. But then you, but then we won't talk about how big of a burden it is. It kind of gets it makes it it snowballs and grows and becomes bigger. And I think that when we say, you know, we have all of these things going on, we have diabetes, and COVID, and the George Floyd and all of all of these confounding things. And we say in diabetes becomes even bigger, a bigger burden. It's almost like this expectation that it should be, and sometimes it is, sometimes it's not, but we don't want to have people get to a point where they say, Well, I had diabetes and therefore this automatically means that you know, You want to I always give people the space to be able to, you know, see whether it's a burden or not, but not automatically assume that's going to be.   Stacey Simms  15:08 I love that. And I'm always working on being better at language. And I really appreciate that. You know, it's, it's, it's one of these things where, you know, you want to help and every once in a while, you know, you really, I slip on that, so I appreciate it. Um, but, but Okay, so but let's keep going on that right. Okay, so I'm a caregiver, I guess a little bit less so because my son is 15. And it's like when he was two when I was doing everything with him. Any advice for me, in addition to not standing around saying this must be such a burden for you? How can I upload, right? I mean, which he's doing great. He's got his own way to manage stress. We're talking a lot. He does exercise quite a bit, which has been really helpful. He's connected with friends, but as a parent or caregiver or spouse, any advice for us so that we're not putting more stress And the person we're trying to help.   Mark Heyman  16:02 Yeah, I think I think take a step back and recognize that you know, that he has it, he's got this taken care of and that you're certainly there to help him in whatever way that you can. But from what you're telling me, it sounds like he's doing really well, doing really well without responsibility. And so, and you know, when you're in, but certainly kind of the same thing about, you know, over engaging on Twitter around the protests right now. I think that over engaging with your son around diabetes, especially when there's not a whole lot you can do right now. I mean, because you're doing really well. That's add stress to you. And so if you're able to kind of take a step back, take a step back and not over engage with it doesn't aggravate him, but also gives you some space to recognize and also gives you space to recognize that but also see that he's doing well and give you the confidence that you need to continue to get that debt back because as she grows up and it goes to college Sunday Jimmy great scope for you to have.   Stacey Simms  17:02 We're working on it.   Mark Heyman  17:05 It's a never ending process.   Stacey Simms  17:08 That's great advice. Um, what are some small changes that you might encourage people living with diabetes in these crazy times to do?   Mark Heyman  17:18 Yeah, so a couple of things that I would recommend, I mean, just like just a simple tip is, you know, one of the things that is that people have really struggled with, that I've been talking to, over the past three months when we've been in quarantine is kind of the routine has been pulled out from under them, so they don't have to go into work anymore, they may not be able to go to their favorite restaurant or go to the gym. And so and diabetes can actually be a great grounding tool, because, you know, diabetes takes routine. And so making it so keeping keeping your diabetes or TF right now can be really helpful one for your management, of course, but also your mental health because if you know that every morning, going to check your blood sugar, change your CGM site every Thursday or whatever that was Is it can kind of give you some some grounding with it within your day. That's number one. Number two is do your best to stick to a fixed irregular diet. Especially, I mean, I know that this is a little bit late coming, you know, two or three months into this. But, you know, we talked about people who are who have really are having a hard time with blood sugars because they're home now and there have been a food all around them and so finding ways to kind of to to keep on eating healthy to the best of your ability and in a way to help you manager manage your blood sugar's can really, obviously make your blood sugar's more stable, but also help you manage the stress around those blood sugars. And then the third thing and this is one of my favorite tools that I that I use all the time I use it personally it also I also recommend to my patients to use is mindfulness. And what mindfulness is, if you don't not not familiar with it is being aware of your experience in the present moment without judging it. So You know, right now I feel stressed. And just recognizing Yeah, I feel stressed. You're not judging it, nothing, nothing good about it by being stressed. It just is. Right now I can tell you right now my blood, my blood sugar is 253. So I'm on the higher side. And I could I could look at that and say, I can't believe it's that high. It's, you know, I'm, I must have done something wrong. I'm an awful person with diabetes, and I just can't manage my diabetes, right? Or I can look at my blood sugar mindfully and say, Okay, well, I'm gonna look, my blood sugar's to 33. That's neither good nor bad. I feel a little frustrated with that. But that feeling of being a good or bad and just be able to recognize what you experience, because if you're able to do that, it gives you a little bit of distance from it, and doesn't let you get wrapped up in the story of what you know. What does that 253 mean about me? What is that frustration mean about me what is you know, whatever I'm experiencing mean about me because we all experience things all the time. We have thoughts and feelings and bloodsuckers, then You know, whatever all the time and be able to recognize that notice them without putting a story behind them can be really, really helpful. I think that's really also helpful for what's going on in the world. You know, recognizing your emotions and your thoughts and recognizing that those are normal experiences, but you don't the judge, you know, if you feel sad, if you feel angry, that is what you feel. And that's okay. So I'm a big fan of mindfulness. I could talk about it all day long. It really diabetes. But I think it's a really, really helpful tool, especially when things are overwhelming like they are right now.   Stacey Simms  20:39 I'm trying to remember I read it, but I read somewhere recently, and it's exactly what you're saying is you know, when you are feeling out of control, and you're feeling very emotional and you're feeling angry or sad or stressed, you know, to kind of breathe into it, and let yourself feel it. And that was a revelation to me. It has helped me so much it just kind of calmed me down to hear that that was okay to do. And I guess that is a bit of mindfulness.   Mark Heyman  21:05 Well, exactly, because because humans don't like to feel uncomfortable about anything. We don't like to feel physically uncomfortable. We don't like to feel emotionally uncomfortable. And so our go to strategy with those things is avoidance. We avoid, you know, you could think about doing your life you know, you want to have you have to have a difficult conversation with your husband or your kid and you put that off, you avoid it because you don't want to do it because it's not you're not going to feel good. If you go to the dentist and take them for granted. Because definitely not going to get and what would happen if you recognize that you're scared to go to the dentist or that you're that you're uncomfortable having a conversation, but you do it anyway. And notice the thoughts and feelings that you have when that happens, but you don't judge them. You just notice them and say right now I'm feeling really nervous. And that's okay because that's that's that's what anybody in my situation would feel. It doesn't mean anything about me. It just means that I feel nervous. And doesn't mean that comfortable. But it's just a recognition of what my experience is right now.   Stacey Simms  22:09 I don't know if you can answer this, and I'm a little uncomfortable asking, but I think we should talk about it. You and I are not. We're not people of color. Yeah. And so I don't want to say I don't want to try to put myself in somebody else's shoes like that. But I cannot imagine the stress right now. In the not only in that community, but in the diabetes community for people of color. Yeah, I mean, you because we can say, you know, turn off the news or be careful about this. But I think it is to the point right now, where many people and again, I'm probably saying something stupid here. So please forgive me. This is my perspective from where I sit right now. But you know, you can't turn it off. It's part of who you are. I'm wondering if you have any advice, perhaps for that community?   Mark Heyman  22:54 Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that I mean, I would be the only advice that I have, and I'm not sure this is great advice is to keep to keep talking. I think that I, what I've seen on this in the social media community is with people of color as well as people, you know, people, other people in the community, it's a lot of support, and a lot of like, and a lot of one of one, one, a lot of wanting to listen. And I certainly want to listen, I want to understand better because I know I don't understand, and I can't understand and I really want to try, but but I and it's going to help me to understand better if people of color in the diabetes community, continue speaking, and continue letting me letting us know what they want us to hear. Because I'm all ears.   Stacey Simms  23:49 We mentioned a few small changes that you might be able to make any big changes that you'd like to see people kind of work their way up to.   Mark Heyman  23:57 I think that can mean continued. This is a general But continuing to learn to learn about these issues and just continue and continue to have a thirst for knowledge and understanding around them, I think that I'm at that's, I think that's the best thing that we can do right now. And then really the most effective thing because that will hopefully not trickle but really expanding into bigger changes that we can all be a part of, and that we can all be we can all be helpful with. But I think that for our mental health, I really think that small changes are the best way of going about this, and then really trying to taking one day at a time and one one change at a time. You know, change is the big changes are so overwhelming, and they oftentimes feel impossible. And so breaking them down into smaller changes, just like we've been talking about with you know, maybe a bigger goal in mind. So maybe the question is not necessarily what what are the big changes but what are the bigger goals that we have for our mental health around diabetes, for diabetes management for our, for our inclusion, and what are the small changes that we can make that are moving us towards that goal. And certainly I can't tell you or anybody else what their what your goal should be. But I think that I think that defining that goal and really taking some time to think about that can be helpful in in helping you to define the small things that you need to make in order to get there.   Stacey Simms  25:27 Before I let you go, and maybe I should have started here since it's our first time talking. Let's talk a little bit about your diabetes story because you were diagnosed in college, right?   Mark Heyman  25:36 I was it was 21 years ago on Monday. So I was I just celebrated or just memories I should say my guy ever my 21st I aversary on Monday.   Unknown Speaker  25:47 Correct is beer. Sorry about that.   Unknown Speaker  25:50 Legal?   Mark Heyman  25:53 Exactly. Yeah. So I was 21 when I was diagnosed that it was the end of my third year of college. I was at UCLA and No, I was for the for probably a month before I was diagnosed I was getting I was not feeling well and just kind of getting progressively sicker and sicker was all over the, in the typical symptoms. The problem was is I had this dream of going to France. I've been studying French for a long time. And I got I got an internship at the US Embassy in Paris for that summer. And I was, and I really didn't want to go the doctor because I was scared that they were telling me something was wrong, and I couldn't go to France. And so I put off going to the doctor for a long time. I couldn't tell you how long but it was a you know, something a couple of weeks. And finally got to a point where I just I was walking to class one day, last week on June the first 1999. And I couldn't go anymore. I'm like, I have to, I got something's got to change here. So I ended up going to the Student Health Center and I took a finger stick and it's at high. And I was like, well we know high, medium, low. By Tapi, that bad and the doctor has struck me in a chair and said Don't move. So we call the paramedics and they stopped me to a gurney. And the problem is that I was at UCLA and UCLA the Student Health Center is as at one end of the quad of a quad, but there was no road access. So the the angels had to park across the other end of the quad. And I had to be wheeled across the entire quad in front of, you know, the entire school to go to, you know, into the journey to go to the hospital. So once you tell you Medical Center, and we've diagnosed there, the next day, I had an appointment with my new endocrinologist and Peters was on call that day. And so she was she became my endocrinologist and spent a couple hours with me the next day and teaching me about diabetes and you know, giving me insulin and she's at the edge like, you know, there's other questions I can answer for you is like, well, I'm supposed to go to France in two weeks. Without hesitation like Well, of course your vote. So I want to tear it to each actor by diagnosis. I want to prepare us. I had no clue what I was doing. I would email her every couple of days my blood sugar's, but like it was, I mean, on the one hand, it was the best thing that could happen to me. It gave me the confidence that I needed to know that diabetes was not gonna stop me from doing anything. On the other hand, I was flying blind. And I survived. I was just fine, but it makes for a good story.   Stacey Simms  28:27 It's a great story. Wow. And how was the How was the internship? diabetes aside? Are you glad you went?   Mark Heyman  28:34 Oh, yeah, it was awesome. I mean, the internship was, you know, it was it was government work. hope we'll put it that way. Like I got, I got to live in Paris for the summer and you had a awesome apartment, the middle of the city and got to go and travel all around. And it was it was unbelievable.   Stacey Simms  28:51 Sounds like a once in a lifetime. I'm so glad you were able to go. Yeah. And then how did you decide that you wanted to work in the field that you Now, I mean, how do you get from being diagnosed in college to, you know, helping other people with diabetes with their mental health?   Mark Heyman  29:07 That's a funny story. So I kind of towards the end. So I majored in political science in college. And so as I was leaving college, after my diagnosis, I realized I didn't want to be a lawyer or didn't do, I didn't want to pursue anything kind of in that realm. And I came to the conclusion that I wanted to go into psychology, and a part of me wanted to do something diabetes related. I didn't, I was lucky that when I was first diagnosed, I was I was doing okay, psychologically, I didn't have a whole lot of big challenges other than kind of the normal diagnosis stuff. But I was really interested in you know, how this affects other people. So I did some research, and realized I wanted to become a psychologist, but not specifically around diabetes. However, to get into graduate school in psychology, it's really competitive. And I use a story. And so diabetes him like a good story to tell about how I wonder what people with diabetes and so I took That story, not really thinking that would ever come true. And it kind of did. I went to and I did research in diabetes, I saw patients who had diabetes, and I realized Not only do I love doing it, but it's also a huge need. And so, you know, I love it. It's a lot of fun, and it's really challenging. But I feel like I can use my own personal and professional experience to really make a big impact in people's lives. It's wonderful.   Unknown Speaker  30:27 Okay, and I have to ask you, you said you have a toddler. You have a baby.   Mark Heyman  30:31 Yeah, I have. I have a 17 month old. Yeah, it's wonderful. I was born last January, and now she's, she's walking and she's just starting to talk. And it's so cute, but it's a lot of work. Oh, that's fun.   Stacey Simms  30:43 have you all been, you know, at home for the last couple of months together?   Mark Heyman  30:47 We have. Yeah. So even though we had childcare we had my parents are in town here. So my parents were helping us out a couple days a week and we had some nanny help. But once this all happened, we kind of isolated ourselves entered just now getting back into letting my parents take care of her again. So, which is a great relief. But it's been, it's been a lot of fun and a great blessing to be able to spend time with her over the past couple months, but it's also it's taken a toll on, you know, my work and my I mean, my ability to do work that I need to be doing. So it'll be good to when we can get back into a more normal routine, hopefully real soon   Stacey Simms  31:25 as we start to wrap this up, you know, we've we've kind of, I guess we've scratched the surface on managing stress and diabetes, it really is a never ending issue, is it?   Mark Heyman  31:34 No, it's not. I think that we have I think that we have a lot more questions and answers here. You know, especially both both with Russell diabetes, as well as, how do we live it live in this kind of crazy world we're in right now, as well as living in this crazy world with diabetes. And so, you know, I wish that I had all the answers, but I think that we need to keep asking the questions because without the questions, we're not going to get any answers.   Stacey Simms  31:59 Mark, thank you so much. Spend some time with me. I'd love to have you back on to answer maybe some listener questions and go through more of this. But thank you so much for your time.   Mark Heyman  32:06 Oh, you're so very welcome. Thanks, Stacey.   Unknown Speaker  32:13 You're listening to Diabetes Connections with Stacey Sims.   Stacey Simms  32:19 I'll link up some more resources about mental health and diabetes, including Mark's website. And I said I was going to talk a little bit about some things I've been doing. I'll tell you the best thing that I have been doing to manage this stress is walking my dog. I walk my dog just about every day, and we don't walk particularly quickly. Boy, she would love it if I would run with her. I'm not a runner. And we are very, very fortunate to live near Greenway. So I'm able to escape. It feels like an escape, I promise. I mean, it's just green, and it's usually pretty quiet. It's getting very hot here. I'm in Charlotte, North Carolina. And most people who walk and run do it very early in the day or later at night. I don't mind it so much and I'll go out you know, 1011 o'clock in the morning. They have the place to myself. I'm careful with my doggie and we make sure she has water and all that stuff. Don't worry about her. But walking the dog listening to podcasts, sometimes listening to nothing really helps. And on those walks, I do not listen to news. I do not listen to news podcasts. I do not listen to serious issues. I listen to stupid comedy podcasts, like Game of Thrones podcasts, and some other fun ones. You know, pop the group, maybe we'll make a podcast list of things to listen to when you want to distract yourself. Another thing I do that I do think helps is about half an hour before I go to bed. I try to do an hour but I'm kidding myself. About half an hour is I disconnect from Twitter and Facebook. I'm in bed, you know it's late. I'm seeing so much later than I was before this, you know, it's almost midnight, but I'll stop looking at the news. If I'm not really ready to go to sleep. I'll read a book for a little while or I'll play Solitaire on my phone. But I'm done. Sometimes I cheat. I mean, sometimes gosh, there's been nights you know, especially last week where I just I felt like things were changing moment by moment and I needed to see and I know that wasn't healthy, but I couldn't help it. I needed to know that was tough, but I know a lot of you feel the same way. And then the things I'm doing that are not so good as I'm definitely eating more junk and eating more than I was before. That was the worst for me. Honestly, back in April, I think April, I kind of felt like, ah, who cares, we're going to be indoors forever. No one's gonna see me again. And I'm just gonna wallow in this and I eat a lot of really bad junk food. And I've been drinking more alcohol, which is really unusual for me. And you'll laugh. I mean, drinking more alcohol means I'm drinking like once or twice during the week. I usually have like one or two drinks on the weekend. And that's it. But those are things that I've noticed that I'm doing because I'm stressed out. But doing this podcast helps me immensely hearing your stories. Being able to tell some stories and having something to do right. Having something to work on is really valuable. So let's get back to it. Tell me something good. I love that in just a moment. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dexcom. And we started with Dexcom back in the olden days before share. Yeah, in 2013. When Benny started using the Dexcom share it. So trust me when I say using the share and follow apps makes a big difference. Benny and I set parameters about when I'm going to talk to him about diabetes, how long to wait, all that kind of stuff. But it helps us talk and worry about diabetes less. If he's at a sleep over or away on a trip when things are back to normal. It gives me so much peace of mind. It also helps if I need to troubleshoot with him. And this is what I love. We can see what's been happening over the last 24 hours and not just at one moment. The alerts and alarms that we set help us from keeping the highs from getting too high, and help us jump on those before there a big issue. Internet connectivity is required to access separate Dexcom follow up to learn more, go to Diabetes Connections.com and click on the Dexcom logo.   And tell me something good this week, I was scrolling through Facebook. I'm in a ton of diabetes groups and I mute all of them because otherwise it looks like diabetes book to me, right? It's everything. It's relentless. So I mute the groups and then I will Want to see stuff? I go back and look, I saw this in a Dexcom group and it really caught my eye. I will post the picture of it in our Facebook group for Diabetes Connections. So Dan writes, my seven year old was feeling crappy about being diagnosed and wearing a sensor. So I did what needed to be done and made him feel better with my permanent sensor. Just the outline color to come. His reaction was priceless. And yes, I cried. And this is an amazing tattoo. It's a I mean, it takes up his entire upper arm like elbow to shoulder and it's an octopus, which I'm assuming he already had. And then the sensor is kind of in the octopuses. tentacles. tentacles. That's right, right. So it looks it just looks amazing. And then people in the group, of course, started chiming in with, you know, with really positive comments for him, but also, you know, hey, I have a tattoo or I have this idea. And people started talking about diabetes tattoos. And then somebody said, which was what I was thinking because it does CG six on it. What are you gonna do when you're on the g7 in a few months, and Dan said, I don't know. Maybe another tattoo Somebody else said no, that octopus has seven more tentacles, just put it there. And I guess he's gonna come back and show the truly finished product. But it to me it looks finished already, but I guess there's color coming so hopefully we'll do a revisit and we'll show you the finished tattoo then and a follow up and I guess kind of a wrap up to something that I shared. I think I only shared this on social media, the diabetes family connection, the T1D 24/7 challenge. This was for the entire month of May. And the diabetes family connection puts on different programs they put on the diabetes camp in my area. These are the guys behind Project 50 and 50. Last summer were two guys with type one summited the highest peak in all 50 states in 50 days. And while there was a an injury and an accident, they did finish and so it was pretty incredible stuff. But their 2024 seven was a challenge that asks people to move every day for the month of May. They said you know no days off for managing T1D no days off during this Challenge. And there were some rules and interesting little things that of course, they want the people to maintain social distancing. And it was a fundraiser as well, they had a Spotify playlist. One of my favorite things about this is the warnings we all got because this playlist was not moderated for explicit lyrics. As I said, these are the guys who put in our diabetes camp. So a lot of parents on their list. We appreciate that heads up you guys. So congratulations to the diabetes family connection for a really big and well done fundraiser. I'm sure they'll be doing more like this and some of them are in our Facebook groups. So we will continue to spread the word. If you have a Tell me something good story, let me know email me Stacey at Diabetes connections.com or, you know, just give me a shout out on social media and we will get it on the show because it's my favorite part of every week. So tell me something good. If you're listening as the show was first released later this week, the American Diabetes Association Scientific Sessions is going to be kicking off this is the atheist conference for the a DA and it is their first virtual experience. What does that mean for you and me? Probably not much. I have never been to the scientific sessions I was thinking about going this year. But of course, it did not happen. But this is the time when a lot of studies come out. This is when a lot of the companies that we all follow release big news. So please stay tuned. I'm going to try to follow as much as I can on social media. We do have shows planned in the weeks to come with everybody that you would expect. I'm really excited to be able to share some of these studies. Some of these things are embargoed. But after the Scientific Sessions, I would say probably by next week, this time, I think we'll all have a better idea of where the study's on technology stand, and probably one or two surprises because every year something pops out from this thing that's either a breakthrough study or something that didn't work out and completely stopped or you know, somebody from outside the ADA scientific session says, Look at me over here, so we'll see what happens. But I hope you'll follow along. I'll do as much as I can to give you the information now, and then go in depth with the newsmakers As they come on the show in the weeks to come, thank you to my editor john bukenas from audio editing solutions. Thank you for listening. I hope you got something valuable out of today's show. I hope you'll continue to engage and let me know if I can help what you need what you want to hear. You know, I made fun kind of earlier in the show about these are challenging and difficult times. You know, man, they really are and we need each other more than ever. Thanks for being here. I'm Stacey Simms. I'll see you back here next week. And until then, be kind to yourself.   Unknown Speaker  40:34 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Sims media. All rights reserved. All rights avenged   Transcribed by https://otter.ai

In this interview Lisa interviews top Holistic movement and health coach David Liow of www.hm-coach.com.   Lisa and David do a deep dive into why our circadian rhythms are out of whack, what blue light blocking glasses can do for your health and sleep dysfunctions. They also look into health optimisation and foundational health principles.   David Liow completed a post-graduate MPhEd (dist) at Otago University and became a Occupational Therapy lecturer in rehabilitation, anatomy, and kinesiology, then a senior lecturer in Exercise Rehabilitation and Resistance Training.   While teaching in higher education, he kept following his passion in sports training and spent a decade working with High Performance Sport New Zealand as a lead strength and conditioning coach. This gave him the opportunity to work with a wide range of world class athletes.   Some career highlights so far are: Head trainer for the New Zealand Black Sox for two successful World Series campaigns Head trainer for the New Zealand Black Sox for two successful World Series campaigns Head trainer and regional trainer for NZ Women's and Men's Hockey for several Commonwealth and Olympic Games. Head trainer for the NZ Titleist Men and Women's Golf Academy for several Espirito Santo and Eisenhower Trophy Championship teams. Trainer for numerous Commonwealth and Olympic athletes in athletics, basketball, through to swimming. Regularly speaking at FitEx NZ, Filex, Asia Fitness Conference, ExPRO, Asia Edufit Summit, and other international health and fitness events. Health coaching pop bands on international concert tours around the globe. Co-directing Kaizen Exercise Physiologists to develop a world-class team of exercise physiologists Co-founder of the Kaizen Institute of Health David says the Holistic Movement Coach Programme is the perfect vehicle for him  to live his mission and share his life's work.   He is obsessed with finding the best ways to be healthier and move better.  To balance out his obsession(s) he is also a tai chi and chi kung practitioner and teacher, and practices the lifestyle that he teaches   Findo out more about David and his work and courses at www.hm-coach.com   To get a discount on the blue light blocking glasses mentioned in this podcast use the coupon code Lisa at checkout at  https://hm-coach.com/index.php/store/   Grab your blue blocking glasses here in our shop https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/clothing-and-accessories/products/blue-light-blocking-glasses-v2-0-free-postage   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/running/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetu-mindset-university/   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.   "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:14) Today I have a special treat for you guys. I have David Liow on the podcast from the sunshine coast, originally a Kiwi. Now David is a Legion and the fitness industry in New Zealand and Australia and Australasia. Uh, he has, uh, MPH ed from Otago university and was an occupational therapy lecturer in rehabilitation and anatomy and kinesiology. And then a senior lecturer in exercise rehabilitation and resistance training. He worked for a decade with high performance sport New Zealand and was the head trainer of the New Zealand black socks, was two successful world series campaigns. He's also worked with golfers and a number of Olympic athletes and athletics, basketball right through to swimming and he as a holistic movement coach. And today we're going to be diving into the topic of light and blue light blocking glasses. Um, something that David has developed his own range of blue locket, blue, blue light blocking glasses and why you should be interested in this. Speaker 2: (01:17) We get into sleep, uh, dysfunctional sleep. We get into, um, holistic movement and what that's all about. So a really, really interesting interview with David. Uh, before I go over to David, I just want to remind you my book relentless is now available in the bookstores right throughout the New Zealand. If you're listening from New Zealand, you can grab it at any bookstores around the country or of course if you're overseas or you want to grab it off my site, I'd love you to do that. You can go to relentlessbook.lisatamati.com To do that. Um, just reminder too, we also have a regular epigenetics webinars that we're holding. Our next one is on the swings day night, but if you're listening to this podcast later, go to epigenetics.lisatamati.com for the next webinar. Now this is all about our epigenetics health program, which is using the latest in genetic science to understand your genes and how to optimize them and what's, what's the best environment for those genes. Speaker 2: (02:16) So information about every area of your life from nutrition of course, and exercise, what to eat, when to eat, how often to eat, what types of exercise will suit your genes right through to your social, your mental, your intellectual talents that you may not be aware of, what the way that your brain works brought through to the neurotransmitters and the hormones that are dominant and how they will affect your personality. So it's a really amazing insight for health program that we're using both with corporates and individual athletes and people interested in optimizing their health. If you want to check that out, go over to the programs tab on our website at lisatamati.com right now over to the show with David Liow. Well hi everyone. Lisa Tamati to hear back at pushing the limits and I am with David Liow How are you doing Dave? Speaker 3: (03:08) I'm very well this morning. Thanks Lisa. You're over on the sunshine coast. I am, which is looking quite sunny this morning and we had a lot of rain last night, but the sunny coast is a sunny coast today. Speaker 2: (03:17) That was perfect. We've already, uh, um, Rick the morning for your whole family, trying to get on the same call and waking your daughter up and getting your laptop and stuff like that. So apologize to you, to your family, but you, we've got you on here, so I'm really, really privileged to have you on. Again, Dave, you're a return offender to my, uh, podcast. Um, you were on a couple of years ago I think goes so well, but so really excited to catch up with you. And today we're going to be talking a couple of different areas and we'll probably wander off path, but today everyone, it's about light and blue light blocking glasses that you may have heard about and why this is important and sleep. Um, Dave's an expert in this area and there's actually gone out and designed his own, uh, glasses for people. Um, so we're going to be getting into all of that good stuff. But Dave, tell us what you've been up to in the last couple of years and what you do over there on the sunshine coast. Speaker 3: (04:12) So in the sunshine coast, I have a exercise physiology clinic, which unfortunately isn't shut down at the moment. So we're on a, we're doing a lot of remote work, which is why communicated well, zoom has become a big commodity here at the moment in my household. So I also mentor a group of, uh, some of the best trainers in the world, many of which are based in New Zealand actually. So I worked with that group there and take them right through their education work. I do a lot of presenting to, so I'm often in Asia and New Zealand. I spend a lot of time in New Zealand. In fact, I was in New Zealand pretty much the whole of February. Just got back in time before things went the Casta key way. Of course, I am of course a Kiwi. Absolutely. So, but I've been, I've been over here for about 10 years now. Um, but certainly, um, I still do a lot of work in New Zealand in particular and a fair bit in Australia, funnily enough. Cause that's where I live. Speaker 2: (05:08) Yeah. And you have a hell of a reputation, uh, in the, in the personal training and the fitness training space. Um, you talk to anybody who's done anything, you know, above the sort of basic stuff and they know who you are. Um, so you've got a long, long history. You are a holistic movement coach. Can you explain what that is? Speaker 3: (05:27) Absolutely. So holistic movement coach, the idea is it's more than movement and that's pretty much what they're, what the logo says. So much more than movement because what I found is, I guess I've been doing this for over 25 years now and what I've, what I've always specialized in is the, the mechanics of the body. Yep. So I look at what's connected to what, look at how the tissues work, look at how joints work, look at how people move. And that was my world. But what I found after a while is that's not enough because we're more than just joints and leavers so much more. So if you don't look after the other part, that's where the holistic part comes in. If you don't look after the whole person after everything from their mindset through to the asleep, through the nutrition, there's just no way you can, you can get your results. So you can have the best training program in the world, the best corrective exercise program in the world. But if, if your minds are, you're stressed out of your brain or sleeping, I don't care what you give someone that's just not going to work. Speaker 2: (06:23) That's so funny that you come to the same conclusion and we, I mean a lot of people have late. I think as we do more research and starting to see also when you're training somebody or two people and you're getting completely different results and you're giving them the same program and the same goals and they're the same type of person and same age or whatever and you're like, why is that person getting results? And they're not. So really being that personal spaces in that holistic looking at, cause I truly believe like our mind is so like important for healing. You know, it's not just mechanical isn't, it? Isn't just when you've got a sore back. It isn't just necessarily about the back. Oh no way. Can you explain Speaker 3: (07:03) cliques and I know you've had some speakers talk about pain as well. Pain is extremely complex. That said output not an input. So certainly when you're talking about pain and injury, there's so much going on with the brain with there. Surely some mechanical parts that can have a role. But I mean the top two inches are just absolutely vital and you know with your background only. So you know that in terms of a high performance, but you can apply that to any field. You know, I guess one of the big differences there that I've come across is we're so focused on loading people. That's been our thing. How do we train people? How do we add more load onto people that's adding more stress on the people. So, and you know, I'll talk at a conference, there'll be, you know, there might be 50 talks on at the conference, 45 of them will be about loading, how to lot people with heel bells, how to load them with power bands, how to, how to Olympic lifting. Speaker 3: (07:55) Those things are great. Don't get me wrong. And I teach those and I do those. But where's the other part about getting people recovering? Well, getting them in the right place. So one of the key fundamentals and holistic movement coach is getting people in the right place so they can accept load. And then that's a really big point of difference. So if you can get people in the right space, then you apply your load, you can apply whatever load you want and they'll be fine. But until you're in that space, you're going to have nothing but breakdown. Speaker 2: (08:24) Yeah, and this is like, this is a real mind shift because like I know you've worked with a lot of elite level athletes and you know, in, in, in my stupid career, and I don't count myself as an elite athlete, I count myself as one of those stupid stubborn ones. But that I had that mentality just go hard or go home, you know, go harder, go harder, go harder. It was always the answer. If I wasn't getting results go harder. And it took me a long time to realize, especially as I got older, that approach was no working. And how do you reconcile that for people that are in the elite space set are just used to going full bore and then that suddenly not getting the results they used to get. Speaker 3: (09:06) Yeah, it's funny, I had a conversation with a group of athletes the other day and what I normally find is you are the classic woman, high performance athlete. You really are most of the guys, well I always find the individual athletes work harder than team athletes. Um, ones that work in funded sports and you know, great athletes here. And this is a massive generalization, sorry guys out there who are listening to this and going, hang on when work with you, I worked hard. But you find that the individual athletes work harder. Most of the men, you need to kick up the ass. You need to hold them back. So you, you're the classic one, but you live, you got smarter as you train. And I've read your journey and how you, how you run. You're constantly there to listen to, you know, when the, when the, when the student's ready, the teacher appears and, and you know, you certainly, um, you know, you figured out some, some pretty cool stuff and you know, that's the stuff that you apply in your program now. So yeah, Speaker 2: (10:14) you know that someone like Neo because I would argue and argue and argue with him, but eventually I came around cause what I was doing was right. Speaker 3: (10:22) Hello. He was right to have it Speaker 2: (10:27) fancy that I had to, Murray was right all along. But it is, it's a really hard shift and I think, you know, cause you get away with a lot when you're 20, well you knew 40 and you're still trying to be at the top of your game or your mid thirties even. You start to have a different things going on and things aren't recovering as well as they were. And even though you're doing the same thing, it's just not more of the same to every decade. I reckon you need a complete new approach. Speaker 3: (10:56) You need to do it smarter. And I've got a guy who, um, is in, he's, he goes to the world championship, um, uh, triathlon every year and he's been doing that for, I've been working with him for the last, since I arrived here, nine years now. And he got a three fastest times last year actually. The last one was blue, which is the last triathlon event before they closed down all the events here. So he's getting faster and faster and faster and know when he sees 50, 53 now. And we had a chat the other day and we were laughing about it and he's saying, you know, my three fastest times I've been in my last, you know, my last year, he said, yeah, we were actually starting to get the hang of it now. So look we can, we can flip the age card. Look there is a part to play I'm getting on as well, but we're looking at that experience you can bring to the table there. And I'm often training with young guys and I'm not going to, you're doing it right for an old guy. And I say, you got really well for young guy. He hasn't got nearly experienced I have, Speaker 2: (11:55) but don't ever compliment them so I can find out the hard way. But there is, it just has to be done smarter, so much smarter. And you know, we all look at ourselves as young athletes and go, Oh man, I had so much raw ability there. But then you look at how you're training now and go, boy, I'm so much smarter now. If you can take the, I'd much rather have a smarter than a roar athlete, get combined the two and you've got something really special and give it time. And I think like now we're starting to crack and this is an area of study that really interests me is longevity for obvious reasons. I'm getting older, my parents are getting old and I want to keep everyone alive and healthy. So that's the focus of my study in a lot of ways. Um, and we are working things out now to slow that aging process and reverse a lot of the danger, a lot of the problems that we've caused ourselves. Speaker 2: (12:47) So, um, I'm excited for some of the stuff I've been getting, you know, reading all sorts of stuff. I'm on peptides and all this sort of stuff and just wishing I could get access to some of the stuff and try it all out cause I'm a tree blew by a hacker, you know, try everything out on your own body, see how it works. Um, and there's some amazing stuff coming in. The information that's coming, uh, down the pipeline. If we can just stay healthy long enough, we, we've got a good chance at living really long, healthy lives. I think, you know, in the next 10 years there's going to be so much change happen that, you know, good things are gonna happen if we're onto it and we know we're aware of what's coming in the space. So I'm really excited for the, you know, being able to maintain performance for longer and have, you know, health and longevity, you know, beyond the hundred. Speaker 2: (13:35) I think that that's, you know, well and truly possible. So exciting. Um, and of course too, because health has that foundation. Yeah. We call it health and fitness. I mean it has to be healthy. Then fitness. You can't have one without the other. I know you had some real challenges in the query there and when that health goes, you can forget about the other part of it cause it's just not going to last year that's still undoing some of the damage I've done to my body. I've managed to save my kidneys and get them back on track, but then, you know, hormones came into the picture and um, you know, uh, troubles in the lady department and all that sort of jazz that's not on a fix and he has a lot to unravel. If I'd done it differently, um, back then. And of course, you know, doing extreme ultramarathons brings with it dangerous. It's not, you know, it's not, um, you know, a couple of hours running around the roads. It's doing really, really at the limit things and what is a coach now, I'm always like concerned. Sometimes I find myself like being that old mother be, it's like, Hey, no, don't push that hard. Go to those lengths because you know, sometimes it's not worth it for a competition. You know, um, one of the things that I often find myself saying to people as they, you know, they, they equate, Speaker 3: (14:52) uh, fitness with health. But boy, you know, sports not about health. It's about seeing how hard you can push yourself before you or your opponent breaks. So, you know, and that is the pointy end of performance. So you know, the way you've been pushing yourself, there's, there's, that's where you've, you've got to have everything covered and that's where a lot of that approach you said about your health and getting all those bits and pieces there. Because if you can get all those, those bases covered, you have got potential to push yourself through. Well, but a lot of people don't bring that health to that, that base health to the Speaker 2: (15:26) they face table. In other words, yeah. High performance sport or extreme endurance sport in my case is not healthy in of itself. Um, and I like, I truly believe like I was extremely fit in one way. I could run for hundreds of Ks, but I was sick. And if I look at myself in the way I looked and the way my body and my phenotype, my body was presenting, I did not look healthy. I look healthier. I look, funnily enough, more athletic now because I'm not holding all the fluid and my kidneys and working again. And my, you know, I was always four or five. I was quite puffy, you know, I was quite, um, I was always a muscular build, but I was puffy and unhealthy looking. And I always sort of was carrying white, you know, and wondering why when I'm doing millions of kilometers a year. And, um, and now I know why. Cause my body was just complete in hormonal hell and adrenal hell and, and, and so I was fit, but I was not healthy. And now for me, it's all about being healthy and longevity in having foundation or health. Speaker 3: (16:36) Yeah. And bringing that to you, you runners that you're working with in your groups. That's, that's, um, you know, that's gonna make, uh, uh, people enjoy what they do, so much more in it, achieve great things. So that's the way it should be done. So good on you for learning the lesson. Speaker 2: (16:51) Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then being able to share the insights. And it's funny that we both come to the same sort of conclusions. Well it's probably logical. I suppose it's also a part of the age that we're at and having that maturity to be able to not just, it's not all just about much Muchow call I go go. It's about being strategic and you know, and I look at you, a lot of young athletes that are, you know, it's all about their abs and it's all about, you know, how sexy they look and that approach has also not healthy. Like it's not going to bring healthy just cause you're like ripped. Um, especially when it comes to woman. I think, you know, like we have this, you know, the ideal that isn't actually necessarily or always a healthy ideal. It's uh, it might look good for five minutes and your beginning ideal, but it's not exactly, we should be health wise and hormonally and all of that sort of stuff. We've gone completely off track cause today was me talking. But I love talking to people like you. So let's get back to blue light blocking glasses. Um, and why, why these are important, what they do and how, how does, um, having the wrong light at the wrong time affect your health? Speaker 3: (17:59) I guess we need to kind of talk about light to start with. And you know, if you think about the foundations of health, we think about the foundations of who we are as as humans we've always been exposed to light and dark. Those are two things that have never changed. We've had ever, and the way that we've operated, well, most and most cultures is that you are active in the day. That's the time you hunt together and at night that's the time you sleep. Because as cave men and cave woman, we were the fastest beings or strongest. So if you go hunting at night, unfortunately that say with two tigers got a better night vision than you have. So that's not a logical time for you to go and do your thing. So we've always been exposed to that as a way of regulating where our systems at and where we are. Speaker 3: (18:46) Every cell in your body has a circadian rhythm. So it's Acadia means about a day. So every cell in your body knows has a certain function at a certain time. And there's a neat little Wikipedia article on this, which basically says at different times where your reaction times best and you know this yourself, you get up, you have a certain routine that you'll go through. There are times you'll feel hungry, there are times you'll go to the toilet. There are times that your your most awake, most alert times that you want to go to sleep. So we have a whole rhythm built into our behaviors. In every single cell in our body has behaviors and actions that are governed by Diana light. So this is one of the foundation rulers of how our body works. Speaker 2: (19:29) Absolutely. So, so, okay, so what we've done in the last couple of hundred years, or I don't know how long we've actually had electric life, but ever since we've had electric glide, we've tipped everything up on its ear and we now have light at night time, whereas in the caveman days, and this is where our DNA hasn't evolved with the way that we've changed our lifestyle so quickly. Um, so we were exposed to, you know, televisions and lights and artificial lights and fluorescent light and horrible, lots of light, uh, at nighttime when our bodies are producing the hormones to go to sleep, your melatonin and things like this. Um, if, if we even go back, like I've just been reading a book by T S Wiley on hormone or health for woman and so on. And she talks about the fact that back in the old days when we were only governed by Moonlight, all woman's cycled at the same time. And I was like, wow. So we used to be all in sync with the moon and, and, and like how much light male camping trips that are out there. Months. We're outta here. But isn't that interesting that we, you said we used to be completely governed and this is, you know, back in the cave man days by those cycles of day and night and now are who is so, um, you know, bombarded with other types of light that are all about cycles, have now become individual. Speaker 3: (20:51) They're that light exposure. That's a better message. That's a, that's a great point because we used to have real light and real dark. So if I'm looking outside now, it's a pretty sunny day here. Um, so lights measured and what the units called a lax. And ALEKS is the amount of light put out by a candle when it's one meter away from you. So that's one Luxe. So, um, if you're looking at Moonlight, we'll go with Moonlight. Moonlight is around maybe 0.5 to one Luxe. So it's a very light amount of light. Well, it's a very small amount of night. So if I'm looking at a room, let's say you're, um, soft lighting in a, in a bedroom that's 50 Lux. If you were sitting in your room, you're in your dark room. That's not a dark room. That's 50 lacks. And what's happening now is with all the artificial light. Speaker 3: (21:38) And um, for me, I live in the suburbs so my neighbors have their light on it. It puts a, you know, I can, if I walk outside I'll see that. So we're not exposed to real dark. Our darks not dark, right. If we flip it the other way too, our light's not light. So I'm looking outside at the moment. I've probably got 50,000 Lux of natural sunlight out there. If I'm sitting in an office though, I've probably got 300 Lux. So when I'm in day sitting in my light, I'm not sitting in real life. And when I'm at night, I'm not sitting in real dark. So now we have 50 shades of gray thing going on at that movie. We've got that all the time. So we're not seeing real dark and real life. Some of the people that probably, well hopefully watching, listening to our interview today, um, they may get up in the morning, it might be dark where they are too. Speaker 3: (22:29) They might flick on a light bulb, they'll hop in their car, they'll go to their office underground, they'll go to their office where they'll sit in their cubicle all day with their first flight. They can't get out for lunch, cause are busy. They'll come home by then it might be getting a bit dark too. They'll go and they'll sit in front of their TV. So I get no exposure to real dark or real life. And boy that is a foundation for how our body operates. You get that wrong, you miss that up. Um, you can get a whole range of interesting symptoms. Every system, every cell in your body is affected by that. So we're at see where it goes. Nobody knows, but it's not going to be good. Speaker 2: (23:06) No. And this is, it fixed. So many systems like we have, you know, a hormonal system as a, as I mentioned before, we've got out melatonin production and now our eyes. Um, and, and also the fact that like, that's getting to the, you know, uh, the subject of, of why sunlight's important and we've all been told like, you know, don't put sunscreen on and make sure you're covered up when you go out in the sun and so on. And that is actually, we're not giving enough vitamin D. I mean, everyone knows that we produce vitamin D when we go in to the sunshine, but I don't think people know how important vitamin D and all of the processes is actually a prohormone. They're calling now, not a vitamin because it's so many parts of the body and so many organs. Everything from your, your mood, which we do understand that, you know, that produces it seasonal, um, disorder. Speaker 2: (23:56) Um, but it also like is, is a, is the building block one of the building blocks of your hormones, of your, your, uh, your mood in, you know, all of these things are being affected. Even your bone health, you know, like vitamin D is one of those crucial things. Um, and we can supplement with vitamin D. And I think for a lot of people that's a great thing to be doing if you can't get the normal amount of sunlight. Um, and I was reading, but yeah, we need to actually go outside and get sun on our eyes and sun on our skin. What actually happens when we go out and we get that sunlight, cause I used to wear a, I still do most of the time because I've got very sensitive eyes to light. So I've been wearing my sunglasses forever and a day outside. Why is it important that I take my sunglasses? Speaker 3: (24:44) So what are doing Mary can mean particularly for people who have sleep problems is they get some real sunlight in your eyes, particularly in that first half of the day. So their morning sun. So that's the most important time. So when that light comes through, so lights made it a whole lot of different colors. So all the colors of the rainbow, the Roy Bev thing, but typically a daylight or or, or a real real life. It's very high in blue light. When that comes through, it goes through your eyes and there's some photo of, there's some fairly sensitive ganglion cells. So there's some specific cells in your eyes which are right in your written to the there which, which sends signals to your master clock in your brain, which then sends signals out to the rest of your body letting you know what time it is. Speaker 3: (25:31) So that morning sun. So sunglasses, I've got no problems with sunglasses. If you're out in the sun all day, but getting up, you know, being in sunglasses all day, that's going to do you a disservice. So ideally you want some, some real light in your eyes. Take the 15 minutes is great, you know, thirties fifteens, but even five minutes better than nothing, right? So if you are struggling with sleep, even if you can eat your breakfast outside or get a little bit of a walking from your car to the office or around the block, getting some real sunlight that will help your brain distinguish, okay, this is daytime. Then if you can get some real dark, okay, then your brain can start thinking, okay, now I understand what time of day it is so I can start getting my cycles right. Speaker 2: (26:14) Wow, that's, that's powerful stuff. And then, and then so many knock on effects for our health and we'll do that and when we do it wrong. And you know what, um, I'm working with a few different people that are unfortunately in hospital at the moment with, you know, various problems, um, delights in the hospital. Like we were sticking our sickest, most vulnerable people under these horrific lights that are going all night. I mean, of course the nurses need to move around and see. So it's a bit of a, I don't know how to fix the problem. Yeah, jeez. Yeah, Speaker 3: (26:44) so there's the fluoro. So flouro and led lights are particularly high in blue light too. So when you're in those hospitals, um, Chang airport says another place if you wish. I'm obviously not at here at the moment, but I go and the amount of light in their places, often they're at 3:00 AM in the morning in between places. Those lights. Singles are incredibly strong and that's effectively that blue light coming from those lights here is telling your brain that it's, it's middle of the day. So I always thinking about the nurses that work in those places too. That's a know that's a real health hazard for them. So unfortunately we've got all these lights in our houses now too. So led lights are very energy efficient but also extremely, extremely powerful. So you've got a whole of intensity but also very, very high in blue light. Speaker 3: (27:34) The old school filament, like light bulbs are very low and blue lights. So the old school lights though, they do more energy. We're actually far better for your health, for your health. Wow. That's no good. No, not unfortunately not. And that's where you, you candle lights really great too. And you know, when we were thinking back to our roots, and this is, you know, if we look in the past to find out how we need to kind of operate for our health today, um, you know, fire is also very low and blue light. So sitting around a fire is actually very common. It doesn't wake you up unless you're sitting too close to the fire. That's out candle lights. Speaker 3: (28:16) Um, just on that, you know, um, a change of temperature, but before you go to bed is also another good sleep. You know, this is why when you, when you increase the warmth or what, um, or even cold would actually, well, as long as you change the temperature that you've been in, that signals to your body is a change coming at something you go to sleep. So that's another little trick and you know why? Probably sitting around the fire that doesn't have blue light and that will help you go, go and not off afterwards. That idea of sleep routines is just fantastic and yeah, you know, and you know, having a good receipt routines, fantastic. And we do this with our kids where we're grading it, you know? Yeah. Okay, we're going to get ready to go to bed now. Okay, we'll brush your teeth. Speaker 3: (28:55) Now we're going to do a story here. Okay. We're going to put on your bedside lamp. We'll turn the light down and we'll go to sleep. But when we're adults, we kind of forget about that. And you go, Oh, okay, I'll watch till the end of this program here. And it might be one big, one time you'll go to bed, might be 9:00 PM. Next one, it's 1130. It's all over the show. We don't do that with our kids. And we forget about those routines. And part of that is, is light light's a big part of that. That's the most important part of your sleep routine is getting your light source right. That's exactly right. And this is why. So you learned this and then you said, right, I'm going to go and buy some blue light blocking glasses. Yeah, I did that too. And um, you know, you go on the internet, you Google up somewhere on Etsy or eBay or somewhere and you buy something. Speaker 2: (29:41) And what did you find with those glasses? Speaker 3: (29:44) Yeah. Um, so achieve one of your, I know we um, a previous speaker you head on was talking about sleep apnea and positional sleep apnea. So look, I've always thought I slept pretty well, but when I started working on my sleep apnea and my breathing boy, I went to another level and I got quite excited about it and once I fell out of a blue light and the effects that have, I thought, man, I've got to get that right. So exotic executive, same as you. I went out and I bought about 20 pairs of glasses from, from all sorts of people. And when I did my research there, I found out, okay, I need to find out about transmission spectrum or in other words, what colors or what, what frequencies of light were blocking, uh, with those glasses. So every pair of glasses that I bought, I emailed the manufacturer and said, tell me about your glasses. Speaker 3: (30:36) What transmission spectrum are they are and what have they been tested? Most of them never even got back to me. And the ones that did had no idea what you're doing. I started thinking, well come on, this can't be right. And it didn't seem to matter what price I paid for those glasses either. Even some of the so called blue light glasses websites. They had no idea or no data supporting what they're actually doing. So what you were getting was all over the show. Sometimes I'd actually find, I'd get the same pair of glasses from, from two different manufacturers and they were the same pair of glasses, but they were totally different. I had totally different stats on them. All the lenses were different colors and they said they were the same. Speaker 3: (31:17) Absolutely. Here's an example of when I got here and I'll just put that this is what a typical, yeah, blue light glass looks like. It's got a slight orange tinge to it and that blocks certain colors. So particularly the blue is the color we want to block. And what that does is that takes away the signal to our brain that it's, it's, it's daylight. So the idea with blue light blocking glasses is to tell your brain you with them at night to tell your brain that it's not daytime. So that was a so called blue light blocking. These are cheap here. I think that was maybe, maybe 40 bucks or something off some internet site and that's mine. And if we have difference in color block the same amount of light. Wow. I completely different. No they don't because I actually ended up getting an optometry lab, um, to produce mine cause I got so disappointed with the quality of, of glasses and I said there's no way I'm going to wear these myself and if I shouldn't wear them, why the hell would I ask other people to wear them? We Speaker 2: (32:18) had as a lay person, you read the advertising material and you, you know that the science is correct. Like the, the, you know what we've been saying about and it makes sense to you and then you go and buy some and then you're disappointed because it's not doing well. You don't notice. You just think I'm doing it right. And I, and I've got it right and I haven't. So now you've got these available. So, um, I will be putting, uh, the links of course to, to your glasses and uh, in the show notes. Um, but just let us know where we came. Can we grab your glasses from? Speaker 3: (32:49) Yep. So holistic movement coaches though my company, so it's H M with a-coach.com and they are available in the store there and I'm sure if we ask Lisa nicely, she might put a coupon code in for you. Speaker 2: (33:04) We're going to do that and I'll put that in the show notes or I'd actually like to list them up on our site and drop, you know like yeah. So that people have them available. So yeah, either go to Dave's website or my website and you'll be able to grab those ones. We'll, we'll sort that out afterwards. Um, so Speaker 3: (33:21) Lisa, you were talking about melatonin before then. That's one of the things that got me really excited when I started looking at the glasses and there was one study there that kind of, I looked at it and went, wow, that's amazing. And they had two groups of people. One had a clear lens and the other one had a blue light blocking glasses lens and that it was good quality lens. It was pretty much the same as mine. Yup. And they showed the melatonin levels creeping up during the night and that's what should happen. So melatonin is, is it's basically a hormonal signal for dark. It's your body's way of saying it's dark and those levels creep up as soon as it starts getting dark and they were going the same, um, until what happened is the blue light blocking glasses guys had a much higher level of melatonin than the ones that were wearing the clear lenses. Speaker 3: (34:10) So since I were in a, they were in a, a room, which was about 150, lax, which is a, uh, and average lounge. Yep. Um, the blue light blocking glass folks had a much higher melatonin level so that we're getting the appropriate signal. But what was interesting though was after they went to sleep in the morning, the folks at block blue light had less melatonin first thing in the morning. Absolutely. Because the last thing, when you're awake, you don't want melatonin running around your body. So they wake up drowsy. So typically people who don't block blue light will struggle to get to sleep because they're not getting their chemical message from melatonin that it's dark. But then in the morning they get stuck with that excess melatonin and find it hard to get going. There are a few, one of those folks that struggle to get to sleep and also struggle to get going in the morning. That exposure to light could be a really big factor Speaker 2: (35:03) and this and the melatonin and the cortisol are related and I'm not an expert on this, but I, I started taking, cause I was having trouble sleeping melatonin tablets, you know, um, supplements and I was, you know, it was good. I was sleeping much better. Um, then I did a blood test and I'm not quite sure, you know, but my, my doctor rang me up in a bit of a panic going, you know, your melatonin levels are 10,000 times too high. Um, uh, and um, your, your blood, I think you've serum levels or whatever. It's not, you know, actually 10,000, but it was, it was a lot higher and I had no cortisol like when they, cause they did the cortisol tests and I don't know whether it was related to the melatonin or not, but since stopping the melatonin and implementing some other things to be fair, um, my cortisol levels are now back at the top end of normal range. So they're toppings. But um, so it's a bit of a uh, uh, so you're just taking a supplement of melatonin, um, can be a good thing, but you have to be a little bit careful with that as well. Speaker 3: (36:09) Melatonin's is a strange one and I used to recommend people to take melatonin once upon a time, but you know, melatonin is the only hormone that you can buy across the counter or even online and get it shipped to you. I mean, imagine doing that with testosterone or, or any other hormones you've got in your body. It's, it's, it's a strange one and it's very unregulated. So when you get a melatonin, if you're taking a pill or a capsule or drop, the dose you get is often very different from the dose that you experienced in your body too. So it's very unregulated. So you pay a little bit tricky with the brains you're using. Now what you found nearly so in your perfect example of that is your levels went sky high because often what happens is melatonin builds up and production peaks around the middle of your sleep cycle. If you were went to bed at 10 and woke up at six, halfway through that would be about 2:00 AM. So that's when your melatonin levels are really cranking. But when you take a melatonin before you go to sleep, you're going to get that peak very, very early as well. So now you're going to get a hormonal message, which is in the wrong time of that cycle too. So they can still sit up some, some little issues there. And if you're getting crazy high levels of that, that can cause you some issues. Speaker 2: (37:22) And this was only one tablet, a little wee tiny tablet. So it wasn't, you know, like overdosing or anything. And then the cortisol, which is your stress hormone, but it's one we want in the morning, absolutely was in that gutter. So I was like waking up like, Oh my God, do I have to get out of bed because I don't want, you know, there's just no get up and go. And it was just sheer grit to get up Speaker 3: (37:41) flooded with melatonin. That time there and you know, you did right cortisol as you'd get up and go in the morning. So melatonin should plumb it in the morning because it's no longer dark. It's time to get up cortisol levels. It should be the highest there to get you out of bed. So you start playing around with that system. Um, bye. Introducing foreign substances in. Yeah. You Speaker 2: (38:02) know, you can get some varied results, which you may not be wanting to do it under controlled if you're going to do it, you know, Drake that you're measuring it too though, you know, at least you know what's working for you and what's not working for you. Yeah. And, I mean, unfortunately we can't go and get a cortisol test every week or a blood test every week. So it's always a time and point. Um, but you know, and when you, because I've, you know, struggled for a long time with adrenal insufficiency, surprise, surprise, and, you know, a lot of people have high cortisol, whereas I was like, no cortisol, like not producing any hormones of any sort for everything in the gathering, wondering why, why, when I'm training my ass off, things aren't working, you know. Um, and, and starting to, you know, over the last couple of years, starting to unravel that mess and get it back. Speaker 2: (38:54) And it's not a, it's not easy and it's, it's, it's hard in course when you're going through the change changes in life anyway, and you've got all that going on. But we, um, you know, we can optimize this if we, if we, if we learn enough, if we get the right doctors, if we get the right support and this and getting our hormones right so that we stay in the best optimal ranges I think is, um, but you do need to do that under the auspices of a good, hopefully a functional doctor if you don't want to be playing around with these things Willy nilly, you know, even melatonin, even though you can buy it over the counter, can have adverse effects. Um, as a culture we're always looking for that quick fix or that pill always. I think melatonin is like step 42 and ways of getting better sleep. Speaker 2: (39:44) A good way of putting it is it is one of the tools and the cats, it needs to be done in a regulated fashion and it needs to be done a little bit carefully. And the other things are lower hanging fruit. The natural way is a better way. If we can go what it looks like looking glasses and angel. Certainly, you know, if you can sleep in a dark room, I love that temperature. The idea of temperature you had before. Get the temperature right in your room. If you can dim your lights as well and try and keep away from bright lights at night, that's got to help. And look, something's better than nothing. But you know, certainly if you are really struggling with your sleep and you want to get that back on track, working with light and dark is number the number one thing I work with with sleep disturbances. Speaker 2: (40:25) That's the first thing I'll look at. Yeah, absolutely. And then, I mean we had that lovely interview last week with James Morris on the show. Um, it might be a couple of weeks back by the time people hear this. And that's a really important one to to go and, and understand. Cause you know, like someone like you, you said you have positional sleep apnea. Um, you know, you are extremely fit and extremely, you know, uh, into health. And most people are quite amnio with people who are overweight. To people who drink too much, people who you know have diabetes perhaps or, or those sorts of co-morbidities. Um, how did you discover it? If you don't mind sharing and what, do you have to be on a C pap machine? Or are you just doing the mild sleep apnea, which a lot of us will have by the way? Absolutely. So I've always been a snorer. My father's a snore and my brother's a snorer. Yeah. So, and it comes down to airway. So when you sleep, part of sleeping is, is relaxation. And that's where the repair happens. That's why we spend a third of a bedroom, a third of our life there. But, um, when you're, when you're relaxing, part of the issue too is that your, the muscles around Speaker 3: (41:34) your, um, your jaw relax as well. So if you're lying on your back, and particularly what that means is the tongue can come back and it can block the airway. The railway is only about as thick as a straw. It's a, it's a very small thing. So, particularly if you have a jaw that doesn't sit very far, if you don't have a big, unfortunately like my jaw comes back and shuts off my airway and I'm the victim. It's like someone's smothering me in the night so that that causes snoring, but also, um, it can totally block my away and wake me up. So, um, yeah. So I ended up measuring a lot of sleep and I looked into measuring sleep. I did that for looking at every device under the sun. And um, I tend to use this one here called a night shift. Okay. Speaker 3: (42:19) See on the picture there, you can actually put it around your neck. That's the idea. And that's a medical grade. Um, sleep, sleep measuring device without people going into a sleep lab, it's the best, um, the best device you use. And so here we go. You just pop it off you go. And basically what I ended up doing is measuring my own sleep, then hundreds of people after that. Then teaching lots of people how to do that and how to analyze that and figure out what's going on with people's sleep. We can we get those, you know, it's a medical one, so not easy to get by because not everybody wants a full blown stuff. Speaker 3: (43:01) So what we actually do with my guys and holistic movement coaches that I train, they're actually trained to actually, we actually hire them out. We get people to actually click the data, they send them back to us, and then we actually take them through what the data means. So, wow. Yeah. You've got your watches that you can wear, which you know, which can give you some sleep sleep. That's called actigraphy. And the idea is you put your watch on your wrist. When you move your wrist, it means you're awake. When you're, you're not moving, you're asleep. That's probably a little bit too simplistic. That's kind of looking at, you know, looking at the Speedo and your car saying, okay, that's how my car is running. There's a lot more going on on the surface. Just that one reading. So, yeah. What a, what a, what a sleep study does. Speaker 3: (43:45) And what they do in a sleep lab is I'll put, um, that leads onto your head looking at your brain activity. They'll look at your breathing, they'll look at your heart rate, they'll look at movement. So the movement, the actigraphy, Pat's only one small part of it. So what a, what a night shift does is it actually attaches around your neck because if you're moving your, your neck device on the back of your neck, you're awake. So it's much more accurate for a staff, but it also measures snoring as well. So snoring, volume and also any position you're in. So what I found is when I'm lying on my back, well that's the time we, my airway is mostly when I'm laying on my side, it's not so bad. So, um, and there's also a sitting on there where you can actually get it to buzz you when you're on your back so you can use it to retrain sleep on your side, which is what I did. Speaker 2: (44:33) Wow. Okay. So, uh, I'll be really interested. Maybe we can talk afterwards where we are, uh, get work. Cause like, um, I've got Jesus as a friend and so on. Um, but convincing your father or your husband to go and have a full on sleep study is one thing and they won't. Speaker 3: (44:52) That's what we found as well. So if I'm going to measure something, if I'm going to do something, I want to do it the best I can and certainly, and look, the aura ring is also pretty good at getting orders on your hands. So you move your hand around, kind of give you some misleading data there. The night shift is the most accurate way I've found of measuring sleep in the home. That's great because if you want to change sleep, I mean measure it so you can measure it to manage it. There's also some questionnaires which I'd really recommend and we get our guys to fill those in as well because we want to kind of find out how they're feeling as well and also getting an idea of their sleep habits, but there's no lying. The amount of data that comes out of that is incredible. I've had some people really change their sleep habits around once they see what's going on. Speaker 2: (45:38) Oh gosh. Yeah. When you put them under the data, cause everyone's like, ah, I'm okay. But I was like, you know, and I probably shouldn't say as well as, you know, listen to my husband sleep the other day and he like, he stopped breathing for like three minutes. I got the, I actually got the thing out and I timed and I was like, Holy crap, he's not, you know, and then he would go back onto his side and then he would, you know, do that. And I'm like, yeah. Speaker 3: (46:01) Oh, Speaker 2: (46:02) and he's not overweight and he's fit and the next, you know, like he's, he's like, okay, how can I have a problem, you know? Um, so I'll talk to you after this thing, but can people virtually contact you in, in, in, um, do that or is it has to be an in person thing? Speaker 3: (46:17) No, we do that remotely. So the idea is, you know, you don't have to come and sit in the lab and get hooked up with a hundred leads around your hand. We send it out, you wear it. We get a couple of nights data to make sure we've got a reasonable, we want a reasonable, um, if there's such thing as an average night's sleep, you have some questionnaires as well. You send that back to us, we get all the data off it and then we remotely, we take you through and go, okay, here's what's happening with your sleep here and here's some of the patterns you've got. And just like you'd have a training program for your running. We have one for sleep as well, so you can get your sleep more on track. I'm doing that, I'm getting that for the family, Speaker 2: (46:54) you know, like, um, the reason I had sleep apnea and GS on last week was because it saved my mom's life. It's that important. You know, when you have a stroke, especially, you need to get a proper full Braun, you know, sleep tests done. If you've had a brain injury. It's, this is something that's really, really under no, and it's just not knowing that this is a problem, uh, in the general medical world. Um, and I'm like, that's why like I do not believe my mum would be alive if I had not gotten a sleep apnea machine and got a C pet machine. That was the first step. Speaker 3: (47:27) I think there's a lot of really good that goes on in sleep and particularly around the brain. So you know, there's a lot of prices where they, where you're there, the little cells are going around cleaning up all the debris, they're cleaning out the brain also cleaning out the psyche as well. So if you can optimize sleep there, boy, it make such a big impact on, on people's health and particularly if they've had, um, central nervous system damage. Yes. In fact, that was one of the, when I first put these glasses out, I actually gave a talk, um, to a group of physiotherapists and um, some of them were working civically with concussion and they looked at the stuff and they went, Holy cow, can we try all these? And, and with our patients, I said, yeah, of course you can. And data's got back to me, said, wow, the different sets making is incredible because you know, think about when you get central nervous system damage, it's hard to filter in with all that information that's coming at you. And if you're getting abnormal light signals all the time, particularly at night, um, that's another stress your body has to play with. So often they were getting some great results with people sleeping better, feeling a lot better. Is that key with concussion types, um, and heat injuries, uh, by using blue light blocking glasses. Speaker 2: (48:40) Yeah. And this is why we're having this conversation because this is going to go in my new course on brain optimization and longevity because this is a big piece of the puzzle for people who have suffered, whether it's strokes or concussions or, uh, you know, even for people who have vascular problems like dementia or Alzheimer's I think is all foundational health things that we need to be addressing. And those people especially, Speaker 3: (49:02) and sleep is the, you know, there's, there's, there's is the foundation of our healing, our self healing. So you get that right. You know that that's, that's money for jam and I'm looking for these fancy things and he's got an inbuilt system. We've got all these inbuilt systems, we just need to use them and tap into them. So what you've got, you've got those sleep cycles, which I'm sure has been covered elsewhere, but you've got your non-REM and your rim sleep. So your REM sleep is when you notice that your eyes were moving a lot. But that's the one where you get your dreams a lot more. So what happens, you get cycles of non-REM and REM sleep throughout your night when when you first go to bed, your non-REM cycles are longer than your rim cycles. But as those no cycles repeat over and over again, as you keep into your sleep, by the time you're getting closer to the morning, you will rim, sleep, other bigger parts of the cycle. Now the non-REM sleep is really important for physical repair. So if you've got, if you've got some, if you've got clients who are ill or have physical illness that's really important, they get to bed early and make the most of those, those in REM cycles. So they need those bigger long cycles at the start because if you go to bed really late, you're going to miss some of those longer, uh, in rim sleep cycles. Speaker 2: (50:19) I knew that, but I didn't know why. Like I knew that that was when the physical healing, psychological healing sort of stuff as later on, but I didn't. Speaker 3: (50:28) Yeah, that's, that's it. Right? So you've also, if you, if few have got a lot of emotional stress going on and you may have both as well, that's where it's really important to make sure you're not getting up at 4:00 AM in the morning cause you're missing that. You're missing that, that, that, that REM sleep, which helps clean out all those emotions there, the stress you've got going on. Um, and also consolidate a lot of learning processes as well. So both of those cycles are really important. And respecting where you are and which ones you need is a big determinant on probably how you should be kind of using your sleep as well. Speaker 2: (51:00) And that's like, um, so short term memory processing would be done in that phase two so that you're actually putting the stuff that you learned yesterday into the filing cabinet, so to speak. Yeah, Speaker 3: (51:10) that's right. Tidying it up in the library in a box away Speaker 2: (51:14) and the MIS, which is what happens and when we, when we go to sleep, we have this, um, what, what scientists have only recently discovered, from what I understand is that our brain actually shrinks in size and the cerebral spinal fluid comes in and does a brainwash, so to speak, and gets rid of the amyloid plaques. And so we have these beta amyloid plaques, which you may have heard from people who've have Alzheimer's. And one of the, the risk factors for people getting developing Alzheimer's over time, over a long period of time is a poor sleep because they're not washing out these, these speeder amyloid plaques Speaker 3: (51:51) disease and inflammatory process. Sleep will have an effect on every single one. Speaker 2: (51:57) [inaudible] I, I'm just doing the section in the brain optimization longevity course on uh, information and people do not get the concept. And I didn't for a long time either. And what the hiccup, I may have had this conversation with my mom yesterday cause I teach her all this stuff as I'm learning stuff and she's going, but I'm not inflamed and Speaker 3: (52:20) chronic disease. You have inflammation and I see Speaker 2: (52:22) you don't feel this type of information, man. This is on the inside. This is the endothelial linings of your vessels. This is from the brain injury, the mixing of the blood in the brain and causing inflammation. You don't feel that. It's not like, cause we all often think that our information, Oh that's when I've cut my hand and I've got that red thing around the cat. That's information. Now that is information too. But that's not the type of information we're talking about. And we're talking about systemic inflammation and there are so many aspects to lowering inflammation in their body. And sleep is a big piece of that puzzle. As with just heard and the right nutrition for your body, the right amount of exercise for your body at the right times. And all these things can help lower the inflammation levels and our systems and information is the cause of so many degenerative diseases, which are our biggest killers. Speaker 2: (53:17) You know, heart attacks or heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's cancers, even all of these have their root, one of their main things is in the inflammation process is going on the body. So if we can allow our inflammation, if we can look after our mitochondria, which has a little battery packs in the hour, each one of ourselves and help them produce more energy efficiently and not, you know, doing new, taking the DNA and things like that because of the inflammation, because of the free radicals and so on. Um, and you know, this is a topic for another 10 sessions, but that then we have foundational health and then we can do and be a lot more for a longer period of time. You know, and, and this is, it's all, it's also interconnected. So having the right sleep and wearing your blue blocking glasses and doing all these little bits and pieces will add up to longterm health. Speaker 2: (54:14) Do you agree? Brilliant. What a great summary of health. You went right from cellular health, right through to inflammation. That's a really great summary. If you've been doing your homework for this stuff, you know, and I just wish I had more brain power and I'm, you know, I'm well to optimize my brainpower to put more in, you know, so that you can understand more so that you can help more and the more you get into this world. And I mean, you know, that was just a very, um, you know, simplistic overview of, of things. Uh, and we have so complex and there's so many other things to learn, you know, immune systems and you know, God knows what, um, but it's all pieces of the puzzle. And I think when we have the attitude, I'm going to learn about my, and my health and what happens in my body because we spend ages, I don't get this, but we will spend ages planning our next holiday. Speaker 2: (55:07) What car are we going to buy and all the details of it. And we won't spend the time to actually look at what's going on in our, in our health and our body because we've outsourced that to the doctor. And I just think that that is the biggest disaster that we can do for ourselves. We can't outsource our health to any one person. We have to take ownership of our health and we have to be vigilant i

In the first sermon of this new series, join Pastor Steve as he answers an often asked question .... "If I'm sincere, does it matter what I believe?"

"I am a cinematographer and documentary filmmaker that just returned to Texas this year after some years away in Beirut and New York City. I am a proud member of Wax Space and have met a lot of amazing and talented creators in Dallas, so far. If I'm not behind a camera, you can probably find me cooking something." -Andrew www.andrewcagle.com Instagram: @acagle

4:30 Intro to Erika and why she chose the mental health field.  7:28 Operating as a therapist during Covid-19 If I'm in a panic and I'm a therapist, I KNOW my patients are in a panic. It was time for me to get to work.  9:57 Covid-19 and virtually meetings has changed the whole dynamic of therapy, face-to face. My office was their peace and now clients are having to find peace in their car during our session.  11:26 A "day by day" pandemic and the media confusing our country 13:21 How do you stay sane as a therapist during this uncertain time? I'm in therapy every week to protect my mental health. If I'm not mentally strong, there's no way possible that I can help anybody else.  15:40 What are some things we can do to take care of ourselves and our mental health? vitamins, in home/outside workouts, journal, balanced meals, go outside and get fresh air, stretch, meditate - take this time, because a lot of us are on the goal - take this time to relax. Build yourself a self-care routine that you can keep up with. Take some time to build some very healthy routines that can keep you going.  20:15: Jada shares her self-care Covid-19 routine   22:17 Erika is releasing her very first healing journal!! She discusses the journey to completion and what she's most excited about. 

"The message never changes, but the messenger does" Why does our voice matter? If I'm not reaching millions of people, is it even worth it to share my thoughts and put myself out there? Happy Tuesday Y'all! Social Media: https://linktr.ee/coachkub --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Are you a business owner who wants to get good at financial decision making and CEO-level accounting? How can you build a runway to opportunities? By navigating mindset, expenses, and cash.  Today’s guest is Tim Francis from Great Assistant and Profit Factory. Tim’s training, Know Your Numbers, shows how businesses can deal with cash crunch and cash flow. You’ll Learn... [02:48] Free Upcoming Event: Navigate the Cash Crunch. [03:20] Entrepreneurs: Like Indiana Jones, running as fast as possible from expenses. [06:00] Pre-built Spreadsheet: Adding and subtracting, red boxes and green boxes. [06:40] Beyond Profit First: In motion and cutting expenses when DoorGrow sales stop. [10:23] 3-Step Method: Navigating mindset, navigating expenses, and navigating cash. [11:29] Mistakes of sloth, and mistakes of ambition. [12:19] Step 1 - Navigating Mindset: Be good to your body, protect personal and professional relationships, and early action is crucial. [22:51] Step 2 - Navigating Expenses: Business's profit margin and bloat factor involves how many dollars to be sold at top line for $1 at bottom line to spend/buy something. [30:08] Survive and Thrive: When sales go down, create a situation where you don't have to sell as much. You can meet it at a lower sales level and still get by. [31:52] Step 3 - Navigating Cash: The Cash Flow Forecast figures out how much cash can you touch now? There's a big difference between cash and free cash. [45:38] Opportunities for Growth: If your business doesn't cash flow, it will fail. Cash flow first, then focus on growth. Cash comes from different places. Tweetables Entrepreneurs confuse revenue, sales, top line, or top of the P&L statement with cash. There's actually a way to navigate the cash crunch, even if revenue is going down. Property management industry has a massive opportunity due to big shift in the market. Panic isn't productive. It's important to be urgent, not anxious. There's a big difference between cash and free cash. Resources Navigate the Cash Crunch with Jason Hull and Timothy Francis Tim Francis on LinkedIn Great Assistant Profit Factory Know Your Numbers Keith Cunningham Verne Harnish DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive DoorGrow Website Score Quiz DoorGrow Cold Leads Calculator Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow Hackers, to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you’re crazy for doing it, you think they’re crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let's get into the show. I am hanging out here with Tim Francis. Tim, welcome to the show again. Tim: Good to see you Jason, again. Jason: Tim and I just started trying to do this on Crowdcast the normal platform. It didn't work out. The internet gods were not kind to us for some reason so we're starting it over. I wanted to introduce Tim to this audience again. Tim has been on the show before because he was talking about his company, Great Assistant, a fantastic company. I've hired assistants through it for US based assistants. His parent corporation, or company, or whatever you want to call it is Profit Factory. I recently went through training with him called Know Your Numbers. One of my goals for this year was to get really good at this learning financial decision making, maybe more business owner, CEO level accounting. Tim is the go to guy for this. He has a program on this that I went through. He had a really cool thing that he showed us how to deal with cash crunch and cash flow. He reached out to me and is putting this out to audiences trying to help businesses out right now. I'm excited to expose my audience to this idea of how they can navigate the cash crunch. Tim, welcome. Tim: Thank you so much for having me. Jason: We're going to do an event here in about a week. I'll just plug that now up front, just get that out of the way. It's for free and we're going to go into greater detail about these things. You're going to be sharing your screen, showing spreadsheets, helping them figure this out. But let's start with talking about the problem. What's going on with the market right now, the cash crunch, and why is this relevant? Tim: Yeah, you bet. If you think of Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark, there's this amazing boulder scene. Jason, I have to give you credit for giving me this visual of this boulder rolling behind us as entrepreneurs. We're running as fast as we possibly can, and that boulder, that's expenses. Jason, full credit to you, every time I use this analogy now I'm giving you credit. A bit of the secret here is that there's actually a simple three step method that we can actually turn this into a different Indiana Jones scene. In the Last Crusade, Indiana Jones, there's this like leap of faith scene where he's standing on the very edge and he's looking at this massive chasm between him and where he needs to go. It looks impossible, it looks impossible that he’ll possibly be able to cross this chasm, but then he gets this idea. He takes some sand, and he throws it out and it covers, and there's this hidden balance beam, it's invisible, this invisible balance beam to walk across. That's exactly the three step method that I teach as a passion to entrepreneurs. I think a lot of entrepreneurs confuse revenue, sales, top line, or just that top of the P&L statement with cash. The thing is that they’re two extremely different ideas. Yes, one can lead to the other, however they're not necessary. There's actually a way to navigate the cash crunch, even if revenue is going down. I've helped many, many companies, I think I’ve had 139 board meetings now. I've helped over 70 companies, and at least 7 of them I've helped to escape bankruptcy, including that with them following the exact process that I'm going to teach today. Whether someone despises accounting and numbers, feels pretty good about them but maybe not a pro, or even if someone's an absolute pro at numbers, I think the perspectives that we share today are going to be really, really powerful. Also just in case anyone's afraid of like oh, my god, here we go, numbers and accounting. I hate that topic. I avoid my accountant like the plague. I'll tell you what, I was rejected from Business School three times. I couldn't finish calculus. I don't know my brain wasn't wired that way, and the good news is you don't need any of that to be able to navigate the cash crunch. If you know how to add and subtract, in fact Jason, you don't even need to be able to add, subtract. If you know how to use a calculator to add, subtract, we can make this happen. The tool that I'll go more in depth with you on our webinar coming in about a week from now, everyone will actually get access to a prebuilt spreadsheet. All you got to do, it takes maybe 20 to 30 minutes to put your own info in. Literally where you see a red box is a crisis line, and where you see a green box, you're good to go. That's it. It's adding and subtracting, and red boxes and green boxes, that help you to navigate. To build your very own—personalized to your business—path to navigate the cash crunch. Jason: Before we get into this, I want to touch on and create a little transparency in this. A lot of entrepreneurs are fearful. There's a lot of shame around admitting that something doesn't look perfectly successful. There's a lot of shame around finances and money. Like oh, no, I've got debt or I've got this. I'm going to share what we're experiencing at DoorGrow. Leading up to this, one of my goals for this year was to get control of finances, really understand and get into financials, which is why I did a training with you, Tim, and I'm working with you on different things, because that's a step beyond the Profit First. I've got my Profit First coach and accountant that I work with as well. I've been doing lots of calls with her getting all these different loans that are coming out, getting everything going. I'm glad that I was already working on this stuff prior. We started cutting expenses dramatically, we started doing shifts. As I was getting control of things, I was like why are we paying for that? If we weren't in momentum already—you used the analogy of the airplane flying over the trees—we probably would have hit some trees. We probably would have crashed. We were already in motion. Sales, March just stopped. Property managers stopped buying products and services from DoorGrow because they were holding their wallets tight, they were scared, and that's about half of our revenue. We had to tighten our belt really quickly. We weren't really ready for that, we haven’t budgeted the beginning of our month to do that, so we had to get really creative. Using some of these strategies helped us to keep that plane above the tree level, navigating the cash crunch, or in my Indiana Jones analogy, outpaced the boulder so that we were able to make it through the end of the month. I'm really excited to share this property management. I'll point out that I believe the property management industry has a massive opportunity right now. There are property management companies, especially in California, Florida, and Hawaii, that they are growing. March was one of their biggest growth months in adding new doors, in acquisitions, period, simply because there is a whole big shift in the market. A lot of people are going to be needing property managers. We won't get really into that now but there's a lot of opportunity right now. Property management is a really safe place to be hedging against the market right now. Most property managers will probably have pretty good cash flow. It's only the third and we're already seeing most people are paying rent on single family residential. They're not noticing much of a difference. They've had a few people reach out for payment arrangements, but all things, I'm saying is that it's basically normal. They're a little concerned about May, so this May become even more hyper relevant in the next month or beyond. I want everyone to pay attention to this. Property managers, you guys are blessed right now, while a lot of businesses are just done. They're failing, their revenue is cut to zero, especially luxury markets, vacation markets, restaurants in a lot of situations. Businesses are closing, failing. This also is the perfect excuse for entrepreneurs that are not really committed to their business to get out, perfect excuse. A lot of people are going to take it. If you are not one of those people, and you're committed to making this work and you want to grow, reach out to DoorGrow, I want to make sure we help you capitalize on all this. Tim, let's get into these three things that we need to pay attention to. Tim: There are three things to navigate, navigating mindset, navigating expenses, and navigating cash. I don't normally share this piece, but because of what you just so wisely shared just around the shame that sometimes entrepreneurs feel around money or like oh, I'm a failure or whatnot. I'll tell you what. I think that being a leader is a lot of responsibility. Even if you're a leader of 1 or 100, it doesn't matter. It's that classic man in the arena story. It's not the critic who counts. I think that there's actually something incredibly skilled when an entrepreneur sees that things have changed, and they're ready to change with it. I think that that's actually a sign of prescience is the word, when we can see things that are coming and to act accordingly. I also think that Verne Harnish has a great expression, he says, "Growth sucks cash." If you've been spending a lot of money to grow your company, and that's why you don't have a lot of cash to show for it, there's no shame in being ambitious either. There are mistakes of sloths, and there are mistakes of ambition. Mistakes of sloths are when we make mistakes because we're sitting on the couch not going for it and life passes us by. Mistake of ambition is when we were really going for it and things didn't work out. Mistakes of ambition, it's even arguable to say that it's even a mistake at all. I just think if you're in a position where you’re a little tight on cash, or maybe a lot tight on cash, I get that the shame narrative is available and I don't know that I'd go there. First of all, it's not accurate, and secondly, it's not productive. This leads us into our whole first of our three steps mindset, navigating mindset. Before anyone decides to tune out and say mindset is going to be the secret or some law of attraction, maybe more airy type topic. I assure you, it is not. I assure you that it is not. In 2008 I had a real estate portfolio of my own, not a big portfolio, just four houses, but I ended up losing around $100,000 mostly of other people's money. Around that time, I also had a mentor who ended up being one of the two leaders of a $12 million Ponzi scheme. Didn't start as a Ponzi scheme but it became a Ponzi scheme, that's typically the way they go. His business partner is convicted in court, barred folding securities for 25 years, and ended up actually leaving the country. This is in Canada, where I'm from. It was extremely exhausting and stressful to go through all that and to see everything that was happening around me. It led to me developing an illness called Erythema nodosum. Erythema nodosum is something there's no real cure for. You just have to wait it out. It's just bed rest. Your body really swells up and becomes so painful to walk that you can't, then it becomes so painful that you stand that you can't, and you end up just lying in bed every single day. 50% of cases are stress related. There's no way to know for sure, but I'm pretty sure mine was stress related. If you think an economic collapse like 2008 is bad, or an economic collapse like 2020 is bad... I'll tell you what's even worse is having economic collapse and also having a health collapse, where you actually can't do anything about your situation because you're in bed. Thankfully, at the time, I had very, very, very few dependents, I had no teammates and so the impact, the blast radius was small, it was just on me. Had my mom not paid my mortgage for me for three months, I would have gone double bankrupt, my personal finance, my business finance. Talk about an eye opener, and I was only 28. I was only 28 at the time. When I talk about the importance of managing mindset, this is absolutely crucial that we manage stress. I'll tell you, I've been not just through economic collapse, economic plus physical collapse, and it is not a pretty situation. You do not want to go through that. Along the lines of how do we go about managing mindset, I think that there are a few important perspectives in addition to some of the obvious practices. I'll just start the obvious because it's pretty straightforward. Make sure you're getting some exercise even if it's just a walk on a treadmill, or a peloton bike, or something like that in your living room, whatever the case may be. Get some sunshine if you can, even though we're all locked indoors, that sunshine is super important. Diet, take care of that. Make sure you’re getting lots of water, maybe ease off on the booze a little bit too if you're someone who enjoys to imbibe a little bit. Be good to your body. Probably the biggest of all, for most people, is actually sleep. Sleep is something that we can lose very quickly in times of turmoil and stress. You might need to turn to things like small meditation, reading, journaling, or something before bed to help take your mind off of some of the challenges of the day. I'm telling you that it's absolutely crucial. When I look back at my sleep habits and actually have been keeping track of my sleep for years and years and years. Jason, I'd sleep for four hours and lay on the floor next to my computer, sleep. I'd work till 5:00 in the morning, I'd sleep four hours on the floor next to the computer and I would stand up, go pee, and go back to the computer and start working again. Desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures, but there is such a thing as too high a price to pay. Remember that this too shall pass. September 11th came, the world changed, and we got back to business in a new normal way. The housing crisis came, the world changed, and we got back to business in a new normal way. Jason: Tim, I'm going to touch on what you just said real quick, interject. These are really basic things but they're showing some significant correlations between COVID-19 and melatonin, and nitric oxide in your blood, vitamin D. These are the basic principles of health. I have training for our clients called health secrets and it's these basics. We talk about getting sleep, that's when melatonin starts to get produced in your brain. It's much higher in children, it gets less. You may want to supplement with that but getting good sleep, getting some sunlight, finding a way to get sunshine and sunlight on your body is going to be a big deal that releases nitric oxide from your skin into your blood, if vitamin D gets produced, these are basic. Sleep, nutrition, some physical activity, exercise, some sunshine, water and hydrate. This and all of that lowers your stress levels and it lowers our pressure and noise significantly. I love that you're sharing that. Keep your stress levels as low as possible and start physiologically. Tim: I think along with stress is this idea of engagement. I don't know if I need to share this part, but I'll say it just to be responsible. If someone is not engaged enough right now, you're not paying attention to what's going on in the world. If you're only at about a 6 or 7 out of 10 engagements, goodness gracious, it might be time to pick it up a bit. If you're also to 9 or 10 engagements it's probably too high, you're over stimulated, you're over engaged. We need that 8 out of 10 where we're focused, pupils dilated just a little bit. Eye on the prize. I always say that panic isn't productive. It's important to be urgent, not anxious, to be urgent, not anxious. Jason: I'm too Agilent right now. I'm excited and that's where I'm at. I love chaos, let's be honest. Maybe there are other entrepreneurs like that but when chaos happens, that's opportunity. That's where we get to be a light and we get to stand out, so I'm enjoying this even though it's uncomfortable. Tim: Very nice, very nice. I think that two other mindset pieces, one is that it's important to actually protect relationships. Yes, I mean the personal relationships that we have in our life because they can be such a source of security, joy, and comfort. I also mean business relationships. We're going to get to the other side of this, and unlike other past catastrophes that were measured in years, I think, yes, our economic catastrophe is going to be measured in years on this one for sure. I think that in terms of months, I think this pandemic is going to be measured in months, not years and years and years. One of my questions at each point is what is the state of the relationships of suppliers, vendors in the case of property managers, tenants, if you're managing on behalf of other people like your clients, your investors, and owners. What's the state of those relationships going to look like in three months from now, or six months from now when we're on the other side of this. You might make it through, but do you still have people that respect you? I heard a story the other day of an entrepreneur that just cancelled all their credit cards and said well, everything's just going to fail in terms of expenses and I'm going to add back one by one the few things that make sense. It's a shortcut to just cutting expenses. That's a way to go about it, but are you going to just supremely piss off everyone in the process? I think that protecting relationships is important to keep in mind. That doesn't mean that you're always bringing good news to everyone along the way, especially in the cutting expenses part of our presentation today. I think to be respected for being accountable, navigating agreements that you have with people rather than just abandoning them. My other mindset piece is that early action is crucial. If you discover that you need to get alone, act now before more businesses are closing, and possibly soaking up some lending capacity, or even just work capacity that bankers have to fill out applications and whatnot. If you discover you need to reduce a teammate's hours, tell them as early as possible so they can start making plans of their own personal and family finances. So that if a dip comes for them income-wise, they're prepared for it. If you can help them find a new opportunity elsewhere, do what you can to manage those relationships. I got an interesting perspective from someone who used to have a business helping individuals, not businesses, but individuals navigate bankruptcy. He said one of the most common patterns he saw with people going through bankruptcy is they didn't cut expenses deep enough or soon enough, deep enough or soon enough. I think that that's a very interesting perspective and maybe a usable guideline would be to say anything that's not going to help increase the profitability, and specifically cash coming into your business in the coming six months, I'd probably delay it. If you're thinking of a new website, if that's not going to immediately give you a bump in cash in the next six months, then let's put that on pause. We'll see if we can renegotiate it, put it on hold, delay it, or even cancel it. I think that's a really powerful way and maybe for you, the number isn't six months, maybe it's three months or eight months, whatever. But if we can keep an eye on what's going to bring cash in, in that timeframe, that really makes decision making a lot easier around what expenses you can continue with and which do not. This leads us to our second of the three steps of what we need to navigate and that is expenses. I think that something I'd say in my path of learning accounting and I even went and took night classes at the University of Alberta. I finally did go and take University accounting classes. It was not for credit though, they wouldn't let me into the for credit version, but they'd let me still sit in the classes and study. You know what, Jason, I got 100% of my midterm. I wanted to throw up my middle fingers as I walked into the room. I can't complete calculus, I can't get into business school, but here I'm getting 100% of my midterm. How about that? How do you like them apples? One of the big ahas that I had is that in my brain, because we all grow up thinking about personal finance. I think in personal finance, we think if I make $1, I can spend $1, and $1 in is $1 out. If I want to go buy a car, a pair of jeans, or a pair of shoes, I just need to get that amount of income to be able to pay for the shoes, the jeans, or the car. When it comes to business finance though it's a little bit different. To be able to buy $1 of expenses, we can't just make $1. It's because there's other expenses in the business. That's why we always talk about profit margin. If I have $100,000 in revenue, and I've got $50,000 in expenses, then I have $50,000 in profit. My profit margin is 50%. What that means is at the end of that year, or quarter, that month, for me to have an extra dollar to go buy something the next month, quarter or year, I don't need to make $1, I actually need to make $2 because my profit margin is only 50%. I have to make the $2 at the top, 50% gets stripped away by expenses. I'm left with $1 to now go and spend in the next month, quarter, or year. There's this idea, I invented it, it's called bloat factor. How many dollars do I have to sell at the top line to have $1 at the bottom line to be able to use and go and spend and buy something else in the coming month, quarter, or year? It's very simple math. If you're at 50% profit margin, which very few businesses are—very, very, very, very, very few businesses are—then you'd have to earn $2 to have $1 at the bottom to be able to go and spend in the coming period. If I've got a 25% profit margin, I have to make $4 at the top to have $1 to go and spend. If I'm at a 10% profit margin, which a lot of businesses around that 10% margin mark, I have to go make $10 to be able to have one at the bottom. Jason: This is super important for people to realize. A lot of us entrepreneurs, we look at our bank accounts and we think well, I've got $1 that we made. Now I can go buy this thing for $1. They think it's a one to one relationship. That's a huge mistake. Tim: Whatever your business's profit margin is, you got to figure out the bloat factor. Let's just say for example, you're at a 10% profit margin, that means you have to make $10 to keep $1, your bloat factor is 10X. If you cut $1 of expense, you now don't have to sell 10X that in revenue to be in the exact same place. For example, this is actually an extraordinary story Jason, this going to blow your mind. I talked to one of my private consulting clients here. He and I had like uh-oh, the crisis is coming call like three weeks ago. He cut $9,000 a month in recurring revenue. Does that mean that he doesn't need to sell $9,000 in the coming year? Well, of course not, because it's recurring expenses. Jason: I was going to say he lost them? Tim: No, no, no. He cut $9,000 per month of expenses. At his profit margin, his bloat factor is 8.7. $9,000 times 12 months in a year times 8.7, he does not have to sell $944,882 in the coming year. He cut the need to sell a million dollars just by cutting $9,000 a month in expenses. That is mind expanding. Jason: We have pretty healthy profit margins at DoorGrow, we’re pretty tight. We're a virtual team but we cut a ton of expenses. Maybe if we have time, I could list some of the crazy actions that we took to help make sure that we cash flowed. It makes a ton of sense to me. Tim: Big time. I'll just take a super simple example. I actually set up a calculator which we'll play with in the free webinar you and I will do. We'll play with the bloat calculator a little bit. If I have a profit margin of 10%—not uncommon for businesses—my bloat factor would be 10. If all I removed was $250 a month, that's it, $250 a month of recurring expenses, canceling subscriptions, canceling unused services, access to different websites and whatnot, I would not have to sell $30,000 in the coming year. $250 a month does not sound like that much to cut, and yet a 10X bloat factor, that's $30,000 you do not have to sell anymore. You tell me what's easier, finding $250 a month and cutting it, or going out and generating $30,000 in new revenue in the coming year? Jason: Especially right now for us. My accountant was really impressed with me. We cut $10,000 in monthly expenses, depending on what our profit margin is. That can be pretty significant for us as well in terms of how much sales we don't have to do to make it each month. That's made it breathable for us significantly. Tim: When you talk about being able to survive and thrive even when sales go down, you just created a situation for yourself where you don't have to sell as much. Even if sales go down, you can still meet it at a lower sales level and still get by which is really incredible. Jason: I met with my accountant last night and we mapped out the month with all the recurring revenue that we have coming in. If we do no sales this month, we will make it. Tim: I love that. Jason: We’ve pivoted quickly and reduced the expenses, but right now it’s a great opportunity for property managers to grow and we're offering some crazy deals. Hopefully, we'll also be doing some sales this month and making a big difference. Tim: I love that. I think you were sharing offline about how all these Airbnbs are now switching to long term rental. They got smoked out of the market and now they just want to go back to traditional long term rentals. So there's all this flood towards property managers. For a property manager that knows how to convert an Airbnb into a standard long term rental, ready to rock, and knows how to find those deals, goodness gracious, this could be a really revolutionary time. Jason: There are several channels right now for growth and each one is going to get bigger. Property managers right now, they can capitalize on it. We're pushing our clients aggressively to start taking action on these things right now. Tim: That's so exciting. There's another way that we can navigate the cash crunch even if sales go down. It's not just by managing expenses but it's also by navigating cash. Let's get into the third and final step in navigating the cash crunch. The free webinar that we're gonna do in approximately a week from now, we're actually going to do live exercises. We're actually going to share screens and you're actually going to see this spreadsheet in action. It's super simple. Anyone can do it. It can be a game changer. Of the multi-million dollar companies that I've helped save, some of them I didn't even do private consulting with. They just came, they know your numbers, or they heard me talk about just this one tool, The Cash Flow Forecast. They use it religiously when they're in a tough spot and it helps them get through. It's very exciting. There's actually two parts to this. The very first is actually understanding how much cash can I actually touch right now? There's a big difference between cash and free cash. Cash is the amount of money that's in the bank if you add up your checking and savings accounts. That's cash. Free cash on the other hand, we have to deduct some money out of that total cash to get the free cash to know what we can actually work with. From our total cash amount, we need to set aside committed costs. Committed cost is any amount of money you've promised that you're going to pay. Let's say for example a website, I've signed a legal agreement to get a new website done. If I don't manage that agreement to delay the project, I'm on the hook for it. If that's a $10,000 cash outflow that's coming up in two weeks from now, that is a committed cost. I haven't received the service yet but I've committed to receiving the service or the product for that matter. Jason: It's money that's earmarked. It's money that is going to disappear. If you can't pay it, it could cause some serious problems. Tim: Big time, getting all the way back to that whole topic about managing relationships even through the tough times. The second category that we need to earmark some cash is payables. Let's say that you already had the website built. It was finished last week. You've enjoyed the service. You've received the service or the product for that matter. You're on net 30 terms or net 60 terms and now you got to pay that person. That's a payable. Now, one of the biggest payables that is unavoidable is death is taxes. Thankfully, the payment deadline in the United States has been extended, which allows for some cash flow breathing room for entrepreneurs, which is very important right now. I would do my best to get clear and make sure that I've got a separate account for tax. I actually have a separate bank account. It's a little profit first esque or Richest Man in Babylon esque that there's a separate account for income tax and that's where I would hold my income tax. Jason: I have that too. The idea is to have it at a bank that is difficult to get into. That's completely a normal thing. Tim: You don't know the pin. You give it to someone else. Two keys to authenticate and turn to open the vault. Jason: The worst online bank ever or something like that. Tim: Or the brick and mortar bank that has no online, something like that. After committed costs and payables including income tax, we also need to remove or set aside any deposits that we've got. This is huge in property management because we have deposits from tenants. You can't really spend that money, it's not money that you've earned. It's just money that you're holding as a deposit so we got to park that on the sidelines. Then from there, whatever amount that you've got to pay in credit card debt or any other very short term, high interest debt. Most credit cards are 10% more. If you've got all kinds of rewards on your card, you probably are facing 19.99% or 21.95% interest. We really want to make sure that we're getting that paid off at the end of each month or else we're facing colossal interest rates. I would earmark that money to hold to the side as well. Then from there, there's two more. The next one is ultra-short term debt that you need to pay. Short term debt in accounting refers to any debt that's due this year. A Tim Francisism ultra-short term is in the next 30 days. If there's any portion of debt that you need to pay down in the next 30 days, I would earmark that cash as well because if you don't pay it, a lot of small business loans have liens or guarantees against your house. You might lose your house if you don't pay it, or you don't renegotiate that payment because there are some circumstances now where banks and different lenders are allowing you to skip the payment right now because of what's going on. Our last category where we need to earmark and subtract cash, I actually have a whole separate account in my bank for this particular category, is what's called Unearned Revenue. I don't think that's as big in property management candidly. For example, for someone who's offering other services, unearned revenue can be the difference between life and death to know what is earned and what's not. For example, if someone hires me for a year of consulting and they pay in a block amount of money at the start of the year, they pay the whole year in advance, I can only touch 1/12th of that with each month that goes by because it's unearned revenue until I've delivered that guidance for the year. Understanding our starting point of actual free cash is the first part of managing cash, and then the second part is to build out what we call a cash flow forecast. It's very simple. It's 13 weeks which is 90 days, just three months. We simply plot into the cash flow forecast where we've got cash coming in and cash going out. Jason, would it be appropriate for me to just show a screenshot of a cash flow forecast or should we wait until the webinar? Jason: The podcast listeners won't see it so let's get that, we’ll show it on the webinar. They'll just be listeners but it's pretty cool. I'll give you a testimonial related to this. I met with my accountant. We're mapping out all the recurring revenue that we have at DoorGrow and figuring out what expenses. We basically went through this. She started doing this manually in a spreadsheet real time, basically doing exactly what your spreadsheet does. She was figuring out which things are going to hit, what are the due dates for these. We're figuring it all out. I was like that's so funny because Tim has a thing that does this. She took me through it manually to make sure that our cash flow situation is going to be good because it's not just hey, this month we're going to make X number of dollars. We're going to have X number of expenses and we're okay. It's maybe at the beginning of the month, you have a whole bunch of things that are running and you're making that revenue later in the month or however it might work. You need to make sure it's all going to be timed perfectly. That's the brilliance of your cash flow thing because if it ever dips below zero, you're dead. It goes into the red, that's death. You have to make sure that you always know when things are going to hit and this is what your spreadsheet does, which is pretty brilliant. Tim: I agree. I totally agree. I'll tell you, when people are calling you every single day to collect money, 29 days is an extremely long time. It is an eternity. Being clear about when money is arriving, not just by the month to your point, but to the week. To be very clear about when cash is leaving to the week, and making sure that not you or anyone in your team is sending cash out the door too soon especially without other people like a bookkeeper helping or an executive assistant helping to pay different bills, if you don't direct your team on when to pay bills, people in your office or on your team, they might just pay the bills when they come in. They just might pay it exactly the same day that they open the envelope or they get the statement online. They're like oh, well, I was just doing my job. I was just paying this because it came in. You got to give your teammates leadership, guidance, vision, and direction on items like this especially in a cash crunch. People oftentimes ask me Tim, this tool is brilliant. How often should I be looking at it? I say that you look at the tool as often as you need to, relative to two factors. Number one, how low is your plane flying relative to the treetops? This is just the analogy we talked about earlier. If your wheels are clipping the tree tops and those trees might take your plane down, then you're looking at that cash flow forecast possibly every single week to make absolutely damn sure that you're getting the money in that you're expecting on that week, and you're not sending money out any earlier than you're supposed to on that week. Jason: Even daily. Tim: A hundred percent. The clients that I have that weren't had multimillion dollar businesses which can have a lot of complexity, moving parts, people, teammates, products, clients, and all the rest, they would literally have it open every single day just to make sure things were coming and going, that all the trains are running on time because there was no margin for error. The other reason why you'd want to have your cash flow forecast updated in front of mine regularly is if there's a lot of turbulence in the air. Whether you're flying close to the trees or not close to trees. If you got a lot of altitude, that's great. But if there's a lot of turbulence, that can do a lot of damage to your plane as well. Maybe you're not looking at it every single day, maybe not even every single week, but at least once a month. I hate making absolute statements because there's always an exception to the rule, but more or less 100% of entrepreneurs are in turbulence right now because of the climate that we're operating in. This is not a situation, it's limited to a city, a state, or even a country. This is worldwide. The cash flow forecast is how you make sure that you've got oxygen in your tank and that you can keep moving. Without that oxygen in the tank, doesn't matter how big and fast your flippers are to generate revenue. You got to have the cash in the oxygen tank. If you do hit any spots where you've got red on your cash flow forecast and you need to manage that crisis line, there are a lot of different strategies. Some of the more obvious strategies would be applying for some of the SBA loans. The only downside to that is we don't know when they're going to arrive. Secondly, bank lines of credit or if you've got access to them already and they're just sitting unused, that becomes an option. There's raising money from family and friends or an investor. If you wanted to, this is maybe less attractive for most entrepreneurs, we can actually sell shares in your company to raise money. There's also just the simple renegotiating if you need to pay something. Let's say it's $5,000, it's in three weeks from now, and that's when your first red square hits on the cash flow forecast, that's your crisis line. If you're going to be short just $1,000 or something, maybe you could call that person that you owe the money and say can I make it in two payments? I'll pay you in three weeks half, and then one week after that the other half. Lo and behold, just by splitting to 2 payments over 14 days instead of once, all of a sudden you've made up the difference and now all your squares are green. Now you've got not three weeks of safety, but five weeks of safety. Jason: The plane can fly through all of those and knock at the trees. Tim: Hundred percent. The thing is there's a lot of conversation out there about how we have to pivot our businesses and how we have to change our sales and our marketing. I think that is all extremely important conversation to have, absolutely crucial conversation to have. Inevitably, if we're going to pivot our offerings in any way, shape, or form, it's going to take time to roll them out. If it's going to take, say, four weeks to come up with a new offering of some special for an Airbnb owners that want to convert into long term rental, if you need to create a marketing campaign to identify those people, if you need to train up your staff to call certain Airbnb to see if they're distressed. Whether it's people, projects, processes, offers that you're rolling out, it's going to take some time. Even if you do it really quickly, it will probably still take at least a month, if not a few months, to be able to make that pivot and to make that implementation. It doesn't matter if you've got the best idea. It takes four weeks to roll out, but you only have two weeks of cash. That's like building a brand new airplane that's the world's fastest, sexiest, coolest, most comfortable, smoothest plane in the world, but if you only give it 100 yards of runway, it's not going to take off. It's just not. Jason: To boil this down real simple for those listening, all these opportunities for growth, it does not matter if your business doesn't cash flow. It's going to fail. Cash flow first and then let's get you focused on growth. Tim: Cash can come from different places. It can come from loans and other places, not just from revenue. To your point, Jason, I just think there are so many opportunities on the other side of this. We just have to make sure we have enough runway. Surprisingly, amidst this entire thing, I'd say the thesis of all of this is that the most important factors in navigating a cash crunch is actually not cash itself. It's actually time. Time is what we're playing for and cash gets us time. By getting time, we can now get out of panic. We can get back to being calm, clear because we've got a cash flow forecast. You can see what's coming down the pipe. We're confident because you know the exact steps you need to take and because we're clear, confident, and calm, now we can be creative to take advantage of the opportunities that are coming down the pipe. That is the name of the game. Those three steps, navigating mindset, navigating expenses, and navigating cash are how we build the runway that we then can launch off whatever the new opportunities are to take us into the new economy. Jason: I had Michael McCalla on the show. I've worked with Al Sharpton as a coach. One of the things Al would say is if you lower the pressure noise for an entrepreneur, that's where their brilliance and genius comes out. One of the things Michael Mccalla talked about is that when we have constraints or limitations which this market is creating, it's going to create innovation. If you give somebody the Pareto principle, if you give somebody an endless amount of time to do whatever, they don't have to innovate. We're innovating crazy inside DoorGrow. My team members are getting new ideas. We release some contractors. Our salaried staff are figuring out new ways of doing things, ways to save money, ways that are more efficient, ways that are faster. These are big opportunities right now for you and your team to give them some constraints, have them work with you on lowering expenses, solving the cash crunch crisis that you may be experiencing, and allowing innovation creativity to happen. If you can keep your presence calm, your team will be there as well. This is a step towards that. Tim: Did you want to share with folks maybe a little bit about our presentation we're doing next week? We're actually walking people through building a cash flow forecast. Jason: Yeah. Let's just touch on the details. It's going to be on Thursday, what day is that? Tim: April the 9th. Jason: It's going to be on April 9th. It's going to be 11:00. Our time, we're both in Austin, Central, which is 9:00 AM Pacific noon Eastern. What are we going to be sharing during this? What are you going to be sharing with everyone? Tim: You bet. First of all, folks, go to navigatethecashcrunch.com/doorgrow. I know podcast listeners won't be able to see this, but Jason, I'll just share my screen so you can see it. We've got Navigate the Cash Crunch with Tim Francis and Jason Hull. It's happening Thursday, April 9th, 2020 at 11:00 AM Central, which is Chicago time just like Jason just shared. In it, we'll be sharing the three step process we've talked about today. We're not going to go into as much detail into mindset because we talked about it here today already. We'll cover a few tools around expense management. The real star of the show is building your very own cash flow forecast. You can register for that webinar at navigatethecashcrunch.com/doorgrow. What you'll get is access to the training. You also get the cash flow forecast template as well, which you can just drop into your very own computer and get to work with seeing where your crisis line is. Hopefully, it's not too close and from there, seeing the exact path to navigating safely. If you happen to be listening to this podcast episode of the DoorGrow Show after the webinars already happened, so after April the 9th, 2020, no problem. You can still go back to the exact same URL. You can see the resources and the replays there so that you are not left in the dark. Jason: navigatethecashcrunch.com/doorgrow. Tim: Yes, indeed. Absolutely. Maybe you guys can throw that in the show notes or something like that for anyone listening to the podcast. Jason: Absolutely. Tim: That's that. I think that somewhat as a final thought on my end over here. It's just that deep down inside, we as entrepreneurs, we take on a lot to be great leaders. I do view property managers as entrepreneurs. I hope they do too, because they are there. They're doing the courageous things of entrepreneurs every single day. Sometimes leadership isn't easy. Sometimes it has uncomfortable conversations. Sometimes it has uncomfortable moments. I think that there's something really beautiful about getting clear on where we are. Oftentimes we talk about our goals and what's the most important to us, but we also have to be very clear about where we are. Getting to Austin, Texas is very different if you're starting in Chicago versus Waikiki. Knowing where we are right now with free cash, and then from there being able to map the path with our cash flow forecast, it really creates calm, it really creates clarity. Therefore, it really creates confidence which then creates creativity that we can now take on this new economy. Something I am very sure about is not anyone including myself could have specific data around this. I just know my gut, Jason, that the economy that we had two months ago, it's over. It's gone. I don't just mean bull versus bear. What I mean is the way we did business once upon a time is forever changed. I'm very nervous for what kind of discomfort is coming for anyone who thinks that how we used to do things is coming back to what it used to be. As we chart into these new territories, I think being able to be calm, clear, confident, and creative is the path. It takes courage and just a couple simple tools to be able to have that. I think that if we're operating from clear facts and confidence, we become lighthouses that can attract what we need to attract into our worlds, and also fend away what we need to fend away. We're not left making super emotional decisions. One of my mentors, his name is Keith Cunningham, he talks about emotion and intelligence often working inverse of one another. The more emotional we are, which is really saying the more that we're in our amygdala, the less that we're in the frontal lobe of our brain, the less our executive functioning is there and the less that we're able to make intelligent, clear, confident decisions. On the flip side, the more that we can make calm, clear, confident decisions, the less that we become really emotional about what's going on. That's not to say we're not passionate. We are so passionate about our businesses. Yes, emotion has its right place. We just don't want to get stuck making decisions or taking action that we may regret down the road. Jason: Absolutely. Tim, thanks for coming on the show. Everybody else, make sure you tune in when we do our presentation. For those listening, watch the replay. Until next time to our mutual growth. Bye, everyone. 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What's the best way to develop a content strategy that reflects the reality of today's buyer journey? This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, Ashley Faus, who is the Content Strategy Lead for Software Teams at Atlassian, shares why she thinks a playground provides a better analogy than a funnel for marketers looking to develop their content strategy, and how to use the concept of a content playground to provide your customers and prospects with a better buying experience. Highlights from my conversation with Ashley include: Many marketers use the concepts of the linear funnel and the looping decision journey to develop their content strategies, but Ashley says that those don't reflect the reality of how people buy. Much like in a playground, where there isn't a singular goal (get to the top of the jungle gym!), your prospects aren't always ready to buy and may have other interests. For this reason, a playground offers a better analogy. Rather than forcing prospects to follow a specific journey that we as marketers have determined is ideal, Ashley recommends focusing on creating strong content depth that allows your prospects to follow their own journey, wherever it takes them. For smaller teams that are just getting started, Ashley recommends identifying your "hedgehog principle" - that one thing you do better than everyone else - and creating a very in-depth piece of content on that. Then, you can use that content to repurpose into a variety of assets that can be used on social media, for your trade shows, in the sales process, etc. The key is to find a topic that is substantive enough to support the development of this amount of content.  In terms of how this content gets presented on your website, Ashley recommends ungating it, and then being very explicit with your CTAs so that your website visitors know exactly what they will get if they click a button.  She also suggests adding a related content module on your site to encourage visitors to browse through your content. The best way to begin measuring the impact of your strategy is to use simple tools like Google Analytics in combination with UTMs. As you grow, you can use more sophisticated marketing automation software like HubSpot or Marketo. Resources from this episode: Visit the Atlassian website Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn Follow Ashley on Twitter Check out Atlassian's Team Playbook and Agile Microsite Listen to the podcast to learn why envisioning your buyer's journey -- and their interactions with your content -- as a playground is a more effective way to approach the development of a content strategy. Transcript Kathleen Booth (Host): Welcome back to the Inbound Success Podcast. I'm your host Kathleen Booth. And this week my guest is Ashley FOSS, who is the content strategy lead for software teams at Atlassian. Welcome Ashley. Ashley Faus (Guest): Nice to be here. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so happy to have you here. Ashley and Kathleen recording this episode. Kathleen: And, and for those who are listening, you can't see it. But Ashley has an awesome virtual Zoom background of the golden gate bridge. That's one of my favorite things about the pandemic is that it is revealing people's personalities through the Zoom backgrounds that they choose.  Ashley: It's been interesting. I actually think didn't have the latest version of Zoom. I got scared that if I upgraded and something went wrong, I wouldn't have access to it. So for a long time I was the lame person that didn't have a background and it was just my kitchen the whole time. So yes, I finally upgraded. Tell any of the listeners that are hesitant, you can upgrade. And it's not going to ruin your computer. And you, too, can have a nice virtual backgrounds. Kathleen: Oh yeah. For our all hands meetings at my office. We've been having so much fun with just seeing the backgrounds that people come to these meetings with. It's, it's awesome. It reveals so much about their personalities. About Ashley and Atlassian Kathleen: But so we have so much to talk about. And the first thing I want to talk about is really have you explain to my listeners what Atlassian is, and then also your background and what led you to your current role as Content Strategy Lead. Ashley: Sure. So Atlassian is a collaboration software maker. A lot of people are very familiar with JIRA, Confluence, Trello, Bitbucket, Status Page. We have a number of different products that people use all the time. JIRA especially is a staple for software teams. So I actually started at Atlassian two and a half years ago and I moved among a couple of different teams. My background is primarily marketing, but I actually started on the corporate communications team, moved over to editorial, doing a mix of content strategy, social media, thought leadership for the corporate side, and then just recently made the move over onto software teams. One thing that's kind of interesting and great is having that diverse background has given me that ability to move across different areas and go where my skills can be most useful. So I'm excited to dive in. I'm fairly new to the role, so it's been an interesting transition to try to onboard from home and then also start to get up to speed both from a content standpoint and a strategy standpoint, and then also from a tactical standpoint of where are all the different boards, where's the JIRA tickets? Like what's the process, what are the meetings? So, um, it's been fun. It's been fun. Kathleen: I will definitely say as far as Atlassian is concerned, I've been a user of so many of the company's products. I've used Confluence and JIRA. I'm currently using Trello. I know our dev team uses a number of products as well. It's a great company and a great suite of products, especially for anybody who's practicing agile, which I have done a few times. And so that was another reason I was excited to talk to you. But one of the things I think is really interesting is, you know, you mentioned you're relatively new in the role and we were just talking before we came on and you were explaining how your fiscal year, it's going to change over pretty soon. And so not only are you relatively new in the role, but you're being thrust into the situation of having to plan and strategize for a whole new year in the middle of the pandemic, no less all of these things happening at once. Your current focus is on content and I was really fascinated by how you think about content and content strategy planning and this concept of the content playground. So could you talk a little bit about that and what do you mean when you say a content playground?  What is a content playground? Ashley: I started thinking about it because I needed a new metaphor. Everybody that I talked to was talking about primarily the linear funnel. And you know, you've got your three phases with your editorial calendar and you say, "I need three content, three pieces of content per phase. I'm going to do one per month. Cool. Now I have nine months of content strategy, if my math works out". Most of your listeners are probably sitting there going, "That's not how you do content strategy. You can't just say one piece of content per phase and then call it". Kathleen: Wouldn't it be nice if you could though?  Ashley: You bought a calendar, write three articles and you're done. Then, you know, I know a lot of people have moved on to the looping decision journey where you basically add a fourth phase in there. And you're kind of almost recycling these people, but now there's a cross sell or upsell, but somehow you're dumping them back into that awareness phase from the linear funnel. If you look at the Google results for both the linear funnel and the looping decision funnel, it's kind of terrifying. It's very confusing. It basically just shows that we all agree that humans don't work this way. Nobody just goes politely down our little funnel. The 10-3-1 conversion was kind of the standard for a long time. You get 10 people in awareness. A certain amount of drops. So you get three into consideration to be able to get one to that kind of purchase decision. I was really wrestling with this because I was like, how do you create content in a way that allows people to do what they actually do, which is enter and exit and go sideways and all of that? So I had originally come up with this idea of a jungle gym. But there's two problems with that -- mainly that there's only one objective. It's either to get to the top or, if you're my three year old nephew, it's to go across without touching the lava below that. It's still me as a marketer forcing you into what I want you to do and it's taking all these touch points and saying, what's the fewest number of touch points that I can use to get you to a purchase? And yes, ultimately we need to sell products. Ultimately we have to make money as businesses, but it feels bad to everybody to just constantly be like, are you just trying to sell me something? Like what's the catch? I don't really trust you because I know you're trying to sell me. So if you look at an actual playground though, what's the point of the playground? Is the person who's sitting on the bench just enjoying the sunshine? Are they enjoying the playground the wrong way? No, actually perfectly acceptable. Sit on the bench. Again, you know, thinking about what the right way is to play on the playground for the adults and the playground designers, going down the slide is the right way. Three year old nephew, every time wants to go up the slide. If you translate that to content strategy, I recently had an example of this where in the traditional funnel, pricing is considered a very bottom of funnel action. If I'm asking you about price, man, I'm ready to buy. Well, in my case, I needed to go ask for budget before I could even do the RFP and I had no idea what that budget should be for. It was going to be a SaaS product. So understanding, you know, the subscription, SLA, the licensing tiers, all of that. And so I started reaching out to some vendors in the space asking them for just ballpark pricing so I could go get budget. And so many of them were like, well, allow me to send you a white paper about why this matters a lot and you know, Oh, you need to do a demo. And I'm like, Nope, I don't want to waste my time going through your traditional funnel when I don't even know if I have a budget yet. Kathleen: I have to just interject there and say amen because this has been a frustration of mine for so long. I had this recently with a marketing software product. It was exactly what you're talking about. It was last November and I was working on my budget and I knew that I was not going to purchase this product until halfway through 2020. And that was even before all this craziness with the pandemic hit. But I needed a placeholder number for it in my budget. So there's no chance I was going to engage in, like multi meetings and demos and hours long calls with people to pitch me what I know I'm not ready to buy yet. I just needed a price. There's nothing more frustrating than companies that make it that hard and it wasn't a one time thing. I just found myself doing this yesterday. Somebody started talking about email signature software and they mentioned the name of a new company, and I literally Googled the company name and pricing because I was like, I don't even want to waste my time looking at everything else and getting excited about it if I can't afford it. Ashley: Yeah, well, and it's interesting too because once I got the budget approved, I was already completely sold that this problem needed to be solved. I just needed to get management on board that yes, we are committed to solving this problem. So then I actually got into the sales process and you know, I started kind of at the top of that and I just said, look, I'm bought in, draw me all the way down to the bottom of the funnel and I want you to just pitch me. Kathleen: Yeah.  Ashley: It blew the sales people's minds. And they're like, well, let me just go through the deck. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't know how many slides you have, but I'm telling you I'm bought in, I agree with you. This has impact. It solves a problem that I have. I have money, here's what my budget is. I'm BANT qualified. I need you to drop me all the way in and I need you to sell me. A majority of them just froze because they didn't know how to go through there. They only know how to do this step by step. And that's where I think the content playground comes in. Obviously there's a sales component to this too. When you do get people who just want to jump right in, I wouldn't send them to play on the swings. That's what we're doing right now. We're spending all our time on the swings. Let's just do it. Quit trying to force them to go down the slide. It's so funny because people have this idea that there's a specific way that you're supposed to build the relationship and you're supposed to, you know, okay, let's get you through the marketing funnel and get you through MQL and then SQL and then a sale. And it doesn't always work that way. Sometimes you meet somebody and they come at you and they're like, no, I'm literally ready to sign on the dotted line, whether it's you or one of your competitors. So why should it be you? Kathleen: Yeah. And not only is that an issue, but it's like I'm going to sign and it's going to be fast. So if you can't meet my fast timeline, just get out of my way. Exactly. That's so interesting. I love that concept. How to use the concept of a content playground to develop your content strategy Kathleen: So give me an example of, conceptually, how does that play out in terms of developing and executing your strategy? Ashley: I've done this at a number of different companies and then we also, you know, do this similar type of thing, whether you see whether you recognize it and call it a content playground or not. When you start to recognize companies that do it because you go through and there's a nice experience to say, Oh, I've kind of landed in this problem space or solution space and now I have the ability to go explore. So we've done that quite a bit in it last year and moving into this content strategy role on software teams, I'm getting exposed to some great ways that they've done it. So for example, we have this agile microsite and then we paired that last year with this agile coach series. This is all work that has been done that I'm excited to come in and kind of optimize and see how can we replicate this across other content types. And it basically says, you know, yes, JIRA helps you run in an agile way, but if you don't have the right practices set up and you don't have that mindset in those processes, a tool is not the thing that's going to fix it for you. And so sure we can sell you JIRA, but if we don't show you the right way to set up the workflows, if we don't help you have acceptable standups, if we don't help you improve your retros, having these things on a board is not going to solve, you know, your agility problems. And so putting that together, if you look at it from a content depth standpoint, instead of organizing around specific phases of the funnel, organizing it around content depth. So from a conceptual standpoint, what the heck is agile? Why does it matter? What kinds of success, you know, have people seen with it, what are the problems from a strategy standpoint, what are the practices and rituals? So that's where you get into some of the standups. That's where you get into some of the retros. And then from a tactic standpoint, how do you actually do those things? And so we have a number of things from the agile coach series, from the agile microsite and also our team playbook, which talks about things like my user manual. So how do you work together as a team? Um, putting together project coasters for kickoffs. And then yes, there's some product demos in there. There's some guides in there, there's some tutorials, there's here workflows that you can set up to do that in JIRA or to do that in Trello. But it's really that full content experienced to say, I just need help figuring out how to run my standups or my retros. And then, cool that I can do that in JIRA as well. So I previously worked at Duarte, if you're familiar with Nancy Duarte's work. Um, she wrote Resonate, which was, you know, a big game changer for a lot of people. They do workshops, they do presentation design for tons of big names and Fortune 500 companies. So we did this in a number of ways. When we launched her slide decks book for example, we put that as a free, ungated version on SlideShare. And then we linked over to this kind of more traditional inbound strategy page where you've got a landing page with a form, you give away a free piece of content, show good faith that this is good quality, and then you've got a form fill out to download some templates that people could use that would then drop people into a drip campaign where we would showcase more templates, we would showcase some use cases that we had built and give them more content to ultimately lead them to say, "Hey, if you want to buy a workshop to learn how to do this at a pro level, here's how you can do that." Getting started with your content playground Kathleen: So if I love the whole concept here, and I love the notion of content depth because I do think that there are so many marketers that almost try to cover too much and they skim the surface on everything and it doesn't work. I think the thing that could be challenging about this is hearing that, like, where do you start and how do you, how do you get there? Because you can't snap your fingers and have a lot of depth in all these topics right away. And also, how do you know what those top level topics are? If you were teaching this to somebody, how would you walk them through that? Ashley: So there's a couple of ways that, uh, we've been able to do it at Atlassian. Obviously we're fortunate we have a large team and a ton of experts that have complimentary skills. So for example, we have done a ton of keyword research to understand both search intent and the specific wording of that. From a market standpoint, agile came in and changed the game, and it turns out that JIRA was actually a really good fit to run agile. So we already kind of were keeping a pulse on the market and we started to see that agile is becoming this very mainstream thing, that our tool and our technology is really useful in helping people run. So let's focus on agile. Okay, where do we focus? And that's where things like SEO and keyword research, that's where focus groups, that's where digging through the feedback that your customers are giving you and asking like, what are the top questions in terms of workflows? How do those map to things like running scrum teams or running Kanban boards? How does that now map to workflows and guides and onboarding tutorials that we would share with somebody who starts with your product or working with Trello products, for example? So I would say I'm doing a listening exercise and there's a number of tools. You could do it on social media as well, particularly for software devs, which is one of our core audiences. They hang out on Hacker News, they hang out on Reddit. And so go look there. That's, that's another core tenant I think as marketers is loving the whole human and not just who are you as a buyer? I only care about you as a buyer or user. How do I get you to engage in the product every day or buy more of the service? Okay, these people have lives. And so if you can figure out what do they love, what are they passionate about outside of the one thing you're trying to sell them, that also gives you an entire new space to explore for thinking about what topics could you engage in. And so, when you think about engineers, efficiency, optimization, clean and concise process is something that's very important to them. Well what are some of the frameworks or what are some of the topics that deal with optimization that could potentially lead you to lead you to something like Six Sigma or manufacturing for example, right? There's a lot of ways that you could think about it if you just know what do engineers generally like? And it's like, they really like efficiency. They like optimization, they like tight, elegant solutions and just jump off from there to see, okay, what are the specific topic areas that would coincide with your product offering? And with the things that they generally care about, what does that mean? Kathleen: And if you don't have an enormous team and you want to take this approach, how do you do it? Because I imagine you'd have a choice of like, okay, I've identified 10 areas that I want to go deep on, you know, and I could either take area number one and fully play it out and develop all the content. Or I could do one article for each of the 10 areas and then go back and do the second article. Like how would you tackle it? Ashley: Yeah. So one of the things that Nancy Duarte actually talks about a ton, from Jim Collins book Good to Great is this concept of the hedgehog principle. And that's if you can do one thing and be the best at it, just do that one thing. So instead of trying to spread yourself too thin across all of those 10 topics, I would be ruthless initially in what is the thing that we actually have the ability to talk about without having to spend a ton of time and energy going and finding that expertise? What's the thing that leads most to the product market fit, or the service market fit, whichever of those that you're selling? And then what's the thing that has depth? This is something that I see a lot, is people start throwing topics on the board and you're like, okay, but how many words can you actually say about that thing? And for the most part, people were like, "Whoa". And it's like you can't even say one sentence about it. How are you going to write a full article? And then that also gets into, it's not just one article, it's okay, how do we also turn that into a video? How do we turn that into an infographic? How do we turn that into a social media post? Because this thing has to live for a lot of time. Nobody has time to keep creating net new content all the time. And so if this piece can't be repurposed or broken apart, it probably doesn't have enough depth to chase. So I would say if you're very first, starting from scratch, to limit it to probably two, maybe three topics that are related to each other and that you know, have depth. And I would say especially if you're dealing with a small team, like you're at a start up and the founder is kind of the only person who could talk about this, I'm definitely limiting that to two topics that you know you have in house expertise and then doing a good job to capture that from a conceptual, strategic and tactical standpoint the first time. And then go with the repurposing strategy. So instead of saying, "Oh my gosh, we have to cover it, a thousand words or a 20 minute video every single time", think about it as, no, nobody wants to read that, nobody's going to scroll through all of that. So let them pick their journey of how deep they want to go. Repurposing your content Kathleen: So can you dig in a little bit more to that repurposing topic because I was interested to hear you discuss all the different ways that the content can manifest, because I think a lot of people might hear this and think it's a bunch of blogs, but it's, it's really not. Ashley: One of my favorite campaigns that was super successful, there was a startup that I worked at that got acquired by Oracle called Palerra. Palerra was a cloud access security broker, which, you know, doesn't matter as much to the majority of the audience if they're not in tech, but, basically they're kind of a complimentary security product to a lot of cloud offerings. We were primarily an enterprise solution. Technology is a really heavy topic. And so what we did, when I came in, there was this raw word doc of just random customer interviews, and problems that they had faced. And so for example, we all know on a personal level we should update our passwords regularly. A lot of companies have that installed where it's like 72 days time to change your password. So at an enterprise security level, there's a similar concept for your keys to your different cloud services. And so we had a scenario where there was a customer that hadn't rotated their keys in like two years. It blew our minds. So our product actually found that. So we actually were talking about cautionary tales and focusing specifically on AWS because that cloud offering is quite ubiquitous among our customers and these are a lot of common pitfalls that our products can help solve. So we called it a cautionary tale. We turned it into an ebook first that then became the basis for our booth graphics at AWS Reinvent. And then we had a booth giveaway. We put an Amazon Tap in a clear box and then we had a bowl of keys sitting next to it and they looked identical. And so you drew a key and if it unlocked the box, you won the Tap. And so that was able to lead us into, "Have you rotated your keys? How are you doing password management?" But not just those basic tactical issues, but also like how do you know there's even a working key in the bowl? How do you know that Kathleen is supposed to have the key and not Ashley? What happens to the keys after the show? So let's say Kathleen and Ashley both leave and the bowls just sitting there. Now what happens to the keys? Right? And our product can help with that. And from a security standpoint, those are a lot of blind spots that at the time people were missing. And then the nice thing about that being at a security conference, people were very skeptical that there were any working keys in the bowl. Right? There's no keys. Yeah. So every time someone won, we took a picture and then we put it on the company Twitter feed. And then if they had a Twitter handle, we tagged them and ask them to retweet. And so there were people, and I mean we had people, well, again, they're very methodical about this. They're like, okay, it looks like roughly once an hour people are winning. So the last time somebody won, they just won. Okay, well I'm going to come back and try again later. Kathleen: Like people play slots.  Ashley: Yeah. It's like slots. But that was a great way. And then we were also able to share that ebook on Twitter as well to say, "Hey, if you're curious why we're taking pictures of the food, you can read this ebook." And then we were able to send that as well with some deeper case studies to anybody that we had scanned at the booth. So it was a really nice integrated online, offline and social media experience. That's another one of my pet peeves is people who are just like, come to booth 123. I'm not at the conference so you're just going to spam me for three days. So making sure that you have content that tells a story to your social media audience, whether they're attending the conference or not. Kathleen: That's great. That's a really good point about the shows too. Because yeah, you do so much marketing. And if somebody is not going, it's just annoying. How to share your content on your website Kathleen: So if you've created all this content, what does that look like on the website from an experience standpoint? Are there content hubs? Is it a resource center? How do you organize this all for presentation to your audience? Ashley: I think it really depends on the audience. I think HubSpot, obviously from the hub and spoke model that they've done, is amazing so that you can kind of see, you can dive in deep per topic, you could dive in deep from an integrative marketing standpoint, you can dive in deep from a tech stack standpoint and obviously they have solutions for that. So the way that they've organized it is actually really great because it allows people to kind of slice and dice how they want. One of the things that we've done that I think is really great and it lasts and is, for example, on the work-life blog, which is like a corporate level, so deals with things like teamwork, practices, leadership, et cetera. We've got a related articles function. And so when you get to the bottom of the article, yes, there's a CTA. If you want to sign up for the newsletter, you want to um, go talk in the community. Or in some cases where we're doing product focused content, it's go to the product tour or something like that. But then at the bottom there's related content. And so we have a mix of collections, a mix of tags, and then those get fed into the related content. And so there's always a next step for people to take. I think that's the biggest thing, whether you organize it as a hub, whether you organize it as a resource center that's done by topic filtering or content tagging, that ability for somebody to always take the next step and to, to only force that next step to be a buying action if they're in a head space for buying action. So if you're on a product tour, the request a demo or the sign up for free, or the do an evaluation for seven days or 30 days, whatever it is, that makes perfect sense. But if you've just read an article about productivity, it's a really hard landing to talk about five tips to manage your time and then all of a sudden be dropped into, you know, by the way, you need to buy Trello. It's like, why would I do that? So making sure that there's always a next logical action that either takes them deeper toward a purchase or deeper tool, words and practices that will help them or allow them to say, I don't know how I landed here. How do I get back to the first thing that I clicked so that I can get back on the path where I think I should be? Kathleen: Yeah. How do you execute that? Because you just gave the example of somebody who's just poking around and then they're all of a sudden getting pushed to buy. You know, being that it's a playground and people can go in any number of directions, how do you craft those next steps so that they make sense? Ashley: I think the biggest thing is, there's obviously an ideal customer journey and that does include some post-sale engagement. That could be things like documentation. It could be a support community. But really, I mean even from like, um, practically accessibility, labeling your buttons with what it is you're doing. Are you downloading this? Are you reading this? Are you clicking to do an evaluation? Are you starting a trial for free? What is that? And then that way people are very clear whenever they get down there, they know what they're clicking on. I know I've had this experience a few times where it's like, see more. And I'm like, yes, I wish to do that. And it automatically takes me into this form where it's like put in a credit card. And I'm like, you didn't tell me that's what I was doing. That's not, I didn't agree to that. So having really clear navs and in the resource center, not having buy CTAs all over the resources. For example, Intercom does a great job with this. They're a messaging, communication growth platform. You can go over to their journal section or their resource center and it's all thought leadership. It's all very high level and they state at the top, "This is free content. It's educational, no sales." And so, you know, when you're that part of the website, you're not going to get sold to and there's a nice handy button at the top. It's like go back to home. And that's where, you know, you could either be directed down an education path or sales path and you can kind of choose. So I think just being really explicit. We're past the point of I'm going to trick you into sales. It might've been on LinkedIn. I saw a discussion that maybe you and somebody else were having about, "Oh, I got a thousand leads from this form. And the question is, are they qualified?" Jay Acunzo actually has a whole rant about this. Stop gating your best content and then pretending whoever fills out that form is a lead sales lead. That's not what they agreed to. And so don't try and trick your audience. If they want to buy, they'll let you know. If they want to be educated and they want to form a relationship with you, they'll do that. And so giving them a clear path to let them either do sales or build a relationship makes them feel empowered. It gives everybody good feelings and it doesn't clutter up your sales process with people that are junk, that are not qualified or that are not actually interested in buying. Kathleen: So true. I find it's counterintuitive because, I started a few years ago ungating as much content as I possibly could and just putting it on the page and then adding like a little field just for email saying, "Want to get the PDF? Put your email in." And that was it.  What was fascinating to me is that not only did conversion rates not go down, in many cases, they went up. It's really psychology if you think about it. There's so much crappy gated content out there and the problem with gating it, first of all, is people are very jaded and a lot of them will think, I'm not giving up my email only to find out that this is junk. And so then they don't convert at all. Whereas, if you give the content away and then give them the option of downloading, you're basically allowing them to try before they buy. You're proving that what you're giving them is really good and if they do think it's really good, they are going to convert because they're like, "Well, it's no skin off my back. This is great content. I don't mind giving up my email address for it." And so the people that wind up converting on the ungated content are more qualified because they've self qualified. The other thing I've found, it goes back to your thing about being explicit, is especially when you don't have things gated, like on the page before or in the marketing you're doing for it, just coming right out and saying, "No need to fill out a form to get it." Ashley: Yeah. Kathleen: You don't have to give us your email address. People are so naturally almost defensive or they're like, Oh, Nope, Nope, Nope. They're going to ask for something. And if you can just come out and say, I'm not going to ask you for anything, that goes a long way. Ashley: Well, and I think what's interesting in this, in this thought about building relationships and giving that content away, a great example, there's a company that I worked with, they were an agency for us. We were a startup. We were using, you know, a lot of agencies and freelancers and they host these dinners and it's basically, you know, just get five, six, seven people together, have dinner, nerd out about marketing topics. And yes, we all know full well some of us are current customers of this company. Some people are prospects of the company. But I don't have budget or need to work with them anymore. But every single time I meet somebody that says that they have the need that this company services, I refer them and I refer probably three or four clients to them. I would continue to do that and we have a great relationship. They still invite me to the dinners. I sent one of my colleagues to a dinner to basically make a connection to say this might be relevant for you to meet some people that we might want to put spokespeople on panels with in the future. And so that willingness to connect with each other. I'm loyal to that company even though I have no budget and no need to buy from them right now. But I'm referring, I'm still giving them revenue because again, it's, it's fine for, for me, when I meet somebody at a conference and they're like, how would you do this? I'm like, actually this is a great company. Would you like an intro? And so a buying action may not necessarily be the person who downloaded the content buys. It may be, I mean, again, I talk about Intercom. I love the content that IDEO puts out. Again, I have no need to buy their services at this point, but I tell everybody, go look at HubSpot's content or go look at Intercom's content. And so there's no way for them to measure that. I'm just another random name on their list that hasn't converted, but I'm a brand champion for them and they don't even know it, you know? Measuring the ROI of your content playground Kathleen: That's awesome. So speaking of measuring, you get this all set up. You deploy it. How do you track and measure whether it's working, how it's working, et cetera? Ashley: So I've done this in a number of different ways depending on the company and the strategy and the bandwidth and all of that kind of stuff. If you're just starting out in your tiny little team, and you don't have the ability to do, you know, Tableau or Databricks or kind of all of these fancy data pipelines, at minimum just start out with your Google tracking. Google has free stuff that you can put on. Use your UTM codes to understand if these things are getting tracked from a social media standpoint, what's the referrals, if you are using any pages with forms from any of the marketing automation providers. Again, I'm pretty partial to HubSpot just because I think they do amazing content. The platform is great. We've used Marketo in the past, and other companies. So any of those are great to really understand what are the trends. I think that's the biggest thing. Making sure that you're looking at a correct trend level. I've worked a lot on the social media side and people get freaked out per post. "Oh my gosh, we did 10 posts last week and this one did, you know, half a percent better than this one." And it's like, let's zoom out and look monthly. How are things trending? Let's do some testing to see if we post more. Does our engagement rate go down if we, um, the other big thing is optimizing the CTA is for what you want to happen. So it's going to be really impossible for you to get somebody to like, comment, retweet, follow, and click through all in the same posts. Like there's not enough words for that post. And so making sure that each CTA belongs where it should be. So if you're asking for a poll on Twitter or Facebook, that's the goal. Responses in feed is the goal versus explicitly asking someone to click through. Make that explicit and you need to make sure that you're putting in some sort of hook or benefit. I see this a lot with people who are just starting in social media, for example, that they just give the title of the article or they just say, read these five tips. Well, what are they? On the opposite extreme, they give it away and they say, here's the five tips. And then they laid them out. And I'm like, well, now why do I need to read the article? You already gave me the tips. Give me the first tip that you think is the most interesting and then say, click through to read the next four tips. Kathleen: Right? Ashley: So, from a measurement standpoint, being very clear on a per post basis about what your goals are, if you're looking at click through rate or engagement rates and what type of engagement. So that's kind of more from a social media standpoint. If you're doing YouTube, if the answer is subscribe to the channel, if the answer is watch the next video, if the answer is go visit the page, those are very different actions. And so making sure you're optimizing those. And then obviously looking at things like organic traffic is always great. Looking at whether you have emails or product tours. From an email standpoint, looking at the open rates and the click to open ratio. So a lot of people look at the CTR, but that's a little bit out of whack. If there's a thousand people that opened it, but you sent it to 5,000, it's not very fair to say what's the CTR on the 5,000? Use it on the thousand. In some cases we've gotten really granular to look at which pieces of content get the most clicks. And so that helps us to understand, it's great that you want to put 10 pieces of content in the newsletter, but if only the first five ever get clicked, you need to find something else to do because you're not amplifying those things. Kathleen: How do you get people down further? Ashley: Yeah, exactly. What kinds of results can you expect? Kathleen: So any examples of like, what kinds of results does taking this approach yield in terms of pipeline or engagement or revenue or any of the above? Ashley: Yeah. From a scale standpoint, it depends. It's not very fair to say like, Oh, you'll get a thousand leads. It's like, okay, well if your revenue goal is 10,000, that's a struggle. Or if you're a billion dollar company, a thousand leads doesn't do you any good, right? So, we've done content pairing for example, where we've done a mix of gated content and ungated content. When we did that at Duarte, the ungated piece has over 300,000 views. Now it's been up for a couple of years, but it's got over 300,000 views. We were getting roughly 10 to 15% download rates of people going and getting that content. And so that's something where you're still getting the benefit of the people looking at it for free and ungated, but then you're starting to see higher engagement, you know, 10, 15% on that. Whenever I've done newsletter sends that have been more thought leadership focused with very light touch sales, we've been able to see 20, 30% open rates, 15 to 25% CTOR rates. Again, because we're serving that content that they've requested, not trying to shoehorn in sales. Whenever we've done sales, as a piece of content, like, "Hey, get a trial" or "Use this code" or "Refer" or "Here's an eCourse and then we'll give you one module for free because you've signed up for this newsletter" or something like that, those do have a much higher conversion rate for whatever the next buying action is. Again, it depends on the scale. So like the Palerra one at the time, you know, that ebook and we were a tiny little company. I mean we only had, I think when we got acquired, we had maybe 60 employees total. So very small company, 10 by 20 booth at AWS Reinvent, which is a massive conference. And we got, you know, almost 2000 views on that small ungated ebook. And then we got substantially higher open rates, and then our lead scans at that booth, I mean it was ridiculous. I want to say we scanned like 500 people and at most shows we were only scanning probably a hundred to 112 and so it was huge because it all tied in. Kathleen's two questions Kathleen: That's awesome. Well shifting gears because we're gonna run out of time. I have two questions that I like to ask all my guests and I'm really curious to hear your answers because you've worked with some really interesting companies who are very good at this. Is there a particular company or individual that you think is really killing it with inbound marketing right now? Ashley: So I will do the shameless plug for Atlassian, A, because I work there so of course I think we're doing a good job. But truly, I think one of the biggest examples of this, we have our team playbook and this is something again where we connected our work futurist Don Price, has done a number of different keynotes around the world and always promotes the team playbook and that has led to this health monitor -- the team health check, understanding where your blockers are. That led to a large engagement with ANZ bank, which is a huge bank in Australia and they have now done a case study with us. They're huge champions that come for our conferences and speak about how this one tiny little interaction with this health monitor has led to this entire agile transformation across their business. It's a mix of the tools, the people, the practices, it all came together perfectly. So, yes, that had a revenue result for us, but it started with that ungated content at a conceptual level about how do you do your team work better and that's what Atlassian really tries to empower. I mentioned Intercom as well. They have a ton of great content. They've got sales manuals, they got marketing manuals that talk about a variety of different ways to think about content marketing, sales, the interaction between sales and marketing. Highly recommend their content for both sales and marketing practitioners. And then, IDEO, just like if you want to elevate your creativity and you want to kind of think outside of a traditional business or products. I work in tech, so of course I'm in this little bubble that everything is SaaS and everything is ARR. IDEO has none of that. And so every time I go to IDEO and just like, this is fascinating, how does the world work when you're not in your little bubble? And so I would say, no matter what bubble you're in, IDEO will help you get out of it. That would be three that are a mix of marketing focused, tech and then a design consultancy that's just completely out of my wheel house.  Kathleen: I can't wait to check some of those out -- particularly IDEO. It sounds really interesting. Well, second question is, the biggest pain point I was here from marketers is that digital is changing so quickly and they feel like it's drinking from a fire hose to try and keep up with everything and stay educated and on the cutting edge. So how do you personally do that? Ashley: Yeah, so from a broader view, kind of outside of marketing or just business chops, which I think is really important, it's how do we fit in and especially as you move up in your career and you become COO or something like that, understanding that business acumen is really key. I love MIT Sloan review for that content and they've been killing it lately. Every single thing that's come out from them over the last probably six or seven months, I'm like, "Yes, one hundred percent fascinating". So I love MIT Sloan from a business standpoint. There's a couple of marketers that I think are a little bit contrarian and I joked about going on rants about things and I'm like, "Yes, ranting. I love it." Katie Martell is somebody that I've been loving her content lately. Jay Acunzo I think is great. He's really honing in on podcasting and show running over the last year or so. But just in general, his thoughts on content marketing and strategy are great. I love Scott Berkun. He is primarily a designer, and more on that design thinking. He has a new book out that I need to get because it looks amazing. It's like How Design Makes the World, I think is what it's called. And it's looking at how all of these interactions and everyday things influence our path, our actions, et cetera. So Scott Berkun is great. And then I would say just like a book that I always come back to is this book called The Medici Effect by Frans Johansson. It's primarily about intersectional thinking and divergent thinking. And so yes, there's an element of understanding the tactical nitty gritty from a digital standpoint. I think there's a number of, you know, Marketing Profs, CMI, HubSpot, all of those do a really great job of that. But how do you think about change? How do you think about a problem space? How do you think about a solution space? The Medici Effect is just every, it's like I come back to it kind of annually. It's like, okay, somewhere in there I'm missing something. I should probably just reread the The Medici Effect. In fact, I should probably just to think about the concepts and The Medici Effect to jolt myself out of being so focused on, okay, what does this button on Twitter do or what does this ads do? Like are we doing AB testing? We're doing multivariate testing, what's our competence interval, whatever. We're pulling those things down. Like I don't know what the best practice is. It's like I'm clearly thinking about it in the wrong way. If I'm so twitchy about such a small detail, you get lost in the weeds pretty easily. Kathleen: Those sound like some really good resources. I will put links to all of them in the show notes. How to connect with Ashley Kathleen: If somebody is listening and they want to connect with you online or follow you or learn more about this topic, what's the best way for them to do that? Ashley: I would love to connect on LinkedIn. I'm Ashley Faus. For the most part, I think I'm the first search result for that. And you can also follow me on Twitter also @AshleyFaus. Kathleen: Great. I will put Ashley's links to her social accounts in the show notes. So head there if you want to find them. You know what to do next... Kathleen: And if you are listening and you liked what you heard today or you learned something new, and how could you not because Ashley shared so many good ideas, head to Apple podcasts and please leave the podcast a five star review. That helps us get found by more people. And if you know somebody who's doing kick ass inbound marketing work, tweet me at @workmommywork, because I would love to make them my next interview. Thanks so much for joining me this week, Ashley. Ashley: Yeah, thank you for having me. It's always fun to nerd out about marketing. Kathleen: Yes!

Are you one of those people on lockdown and worrying about "losing your gains"? A lot of people are concerned about this, but in case you don't even know what I mean by that, it basically just means losing muscle mass or strength, that you probably worked really hard for. You might be struggling to feel like you can do adequate resistance training or strength training at home in order to prevent that from happening. I'm here to help you! Before I go any further, I feel a need to address the potential people out there who respond to things like this by saying "I can't believe you'd care about something so shallow when people are out here dying". I get it. You're entitled to that outlook. I get both sides. But today is not for the people who say to "relax" and not worry about it. If you want to relax, that's cool, but today is for the people who are concerned about losing the progress they've made. The biggest and most significant thing I can say is that a lot of people will have to make a big mental shift in order to get out of their own way in order to minimize strength loss or muscle mass. I'm going talk about some things you can do if you're concerned about losing gains, but if your ego is in the way and telling you things like "Yeah, but that's not heavy enough" or "These bodyweight exercises are not going to do anything for me" — First of all, you're wrong. Second of all, if you hang on to those excuses, then you honestly should accept your fate and start saying the truth, which is that your ego is in the way you're just going pout about it until the gym opens again. If you honestly have concerns about losing strength or muscle mass but you find that you just don't know what to do, then I'm about to help you with that. Here is the oath that I'd like you to take to commit to bodyweight workouts: I (state your name ), hereby declare by the powerlessness that I feel from having to stay at home without access to heavy weights or the gym promise to put my ego aside To trust in bodyweight training To make the most of this situation So that I will feel empowered To maintain strength and minimize muscle loss So that when the gyms open again, I will feel ahead of the game And ahead of the people who chose to allow their ego to steal their gains during quarantine time. Keep in mind this oath that you just took because your ego is still going to tap you on the shoulder and try to strongarm you into not putting in effort. What else you'll learn in this episode: • Will cardio cause you to lose more muscle and should you do cardio during lockdown? • Putting your ego in check if you think bodyweight exercises aren't tough enough • Ideas for stairs to challenge your lower body • Why bodyweight exercises work for 99% of the population • How to add variations to make things more interesting • How to use range of motion, tempo and high reps to your advantage • How to make a 5 lb. dumbbell feel like 50 lbs. I dare you to try these ideas. See how it goes. If I'm wrong after the gyms open, then I'm wrong. But I've been doing this for a long time so I think I know what I'm talking about. Post yourself doing these ideas on social media with the hashtag #ProveFitFizzWrong I DARE YOU! And I'm going to need that social media proof of you doing these ideas at home for it to count if you plan to prove me wrong when gyms open again. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend....and have them prove me wrong too (wink, wink) Subscribe and pretty please leave a review for the show...I would love that OH so much!! Keep doing the best you can, and until next time, breathe, stay strong, and always celebrate victory! I’m Kelly Wilson, owner of fitfizzstudio.com and I’m a certified trainer, nutrition coach, behavior change specialist, autoimmune disease educator and I’ve worked in the health and fitness industry for over 25 years. I am here to help you ditch the gimmicks, finding strength through your struggles, give you the knowledge for making the smartest choices for your own health and to remind you to celebrate victory along the way. Website Shop Facebook Instagram YouTube

The Las Vegas Raiders drafted a bunch of absolute dogs. If I'm picking any draft class that I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley, it's the Raiders. Jon Gruden obviously wants the Las Vegas Raiders to have that same attitude as the Oakland Raiders had.

Addiction runs rampant... for most of us. Myself included.  Especially when we're facing tough things: anxiety, pain, loneliness, vulnerability, identity, significance. During a stressful time we are trying to avoid the pain... so we move towards the pleasure of distraction, entertainment, alcohol, gossip, food, video games, cigarettes...   God has specific insight into what to do on a consistent basis to bring us to PEACE.   Specifically, I'm thinking about this scripture... Psalms 37:7 "Be still before the Lord and wait patiently for him". That makes me what to squirm and run away and pretend I didn't read it and that it's not in the Bible. If I'm really honest my response is "but I'm too important to wait" or "there's too much to do to wait" or "waiting is not going to help anything" Waiting feels like facing the tiger that's chasing me. The truth is when I wait, when I'm patient, when I am still... I discover over and over again that it's a paper tiger.   Is meditation new age / non-Christian? I talk about that... and how to ensure your meditation is Christian. I share what I do to be still and be present in intimacy and OUTside the bedroom to impact my pleasure in intimacy. Also, when "Receiving" in intimacy is too hard, there are other ways that are easier at times and bring us together in beautiful ways.   A few resources I mentioned: The Craving Mind by Judson Brewer MD, PhD Deep Work by Cal Newport International House of Prayer - 24-hr worship streamed online Live a Life Worthy of Your Calling (the song starts at 1:18:15) Delight Your Husband: The Christian wife's manual to passion, confidence and oral sex by Belah Rose   --   I'd like to invite you to be on my email list. I send emails a couple times a month and I'd like to offer you some free resources for you... For wives, you're welcome to get "8 Tips to Stay Present" in the bedroom: www.delightyourmarriage.com/present For husbands, you're invited to get the "7 Blocks to Her Libido" which clarifies what may be keeping her from desiring intimacy in your marriage. www.delightyourmarriage.com/7blocks   

What happens when a committed, lifelong atheist begins to doubt his faith?  Join me for a three-hour conversation with my good friend Dr. David Martorano.  David sent me a shocking text message recently. We've had several long conversations over the years about his faith in atheism and my faith in Jesus Christ, and they always end in both of us shaking our heads. But his text message said, "I'm struggling with my faith." But that wasn't the only shocking thing David said to me that day. He also wanted to record our conversation, because he said, "If I'm struggling with what I believe right now, I bet other people are too. Maybe this will help them and me." So, we're not sure where this is going, or how many conversations it will take before David finds what he's looking for, but we both believe it will be helpful to all of us.    

About the Tracks: Nathan Leigh and the Crisis Actors - This Machine Kills Centrists Nathan Leigh and the Crisis Actors are an interesting project that tends to play punk-influenced folk and rock music, but has been known to pull influences from all over the map ranging from swing to ska, to country and beyond. They pulled yours truly into play trombone on this record and it's one of my favorite projects I've been a part of. Their new album, "Myths, Conspiracy Theories and Other Things I Made Up to Sound Interesting" dropped last week, and it even had a ska song on it, lamenting an all too familiar attitude in our political discourse. The Autocratics - Brainwashed Friend The Autocratics, from Tokyo, Japan, are what would happen if you took bands like Bad Manners, Madness, and the Specials further refined that nutty two tone sound to its apex. Fronted by Shuhei Yokota (Rude Bones), The Autocratics have been carrying the two tone torch in Japan for over a decade now and have developed quite a fanbase, and yet remain one of ska's best-kept secrets. So grab your Fred Perry, crack open an ice-cold Stella and enjoy The Autocratics!!! Brainwashed Friends is my favorite track off the band's debut album. Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra - Perfect Future Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra is, for lack of a better description, perfect. My favorite band by about a mile and a half, having been together for over 30 years they've got a catalog deeper than the Marianas Trench. The band's trademark of blending ska with just about anything you can think of and making it their own is evident on this track, the leadoff/title track of 2009's "Perfect Future " Karikatura - White Lies The quick way to describe Karikatura is to say they play trans-global soul or world indie. A deeper inspection, however, yields a dizzying array of sounds ranging from jazz to cumbia to reggae to funk and of course the aforementioned soul. Crisscrossing the world for over 10 years, they dropped this aggressive meringue track, White Lies, as a response to the Eric Garner murder and Black Lives Matter movement. Diverse and eclectic music with (a) soul. Warsaw Poland Brothers - Summer of Ska Warsaw Poland Brothers are the unsung heroes of the socal/southwest ska scene. Having been active for over 30 years, and forming 2 sub-bands (California Celts, Kalifornia Krauts) they have managed to carve out a cult following from coast to coast. Great songwriting and excellent musicianship from the Poland brothers (Chris and Aaron). Summer of Ska is a single off the as of yet unreleased 8th album! The perfect track to get you ready for summer, even if we're all stuck indoors. Catch these guys if you ever get the chance and wish their singer Chris a happy 50th Birthday! About Chris: Chris Malone is a busy guy. Having been playing trombone in ska bands from all over the NYC/Long Island area for over 20 years, he is currently the bandleader/singer/trombonist in NYC based ska-punk band The Pandemics, he also occasionally plays with raggacore legends Pilfers. In addition to being an active musician, he also runs the fledgling record label, Lonely Atom Records, runs the Touring Ska Bands Facebook group (a resource for independent ska bands looking to book their own tours), and curates a Spotify playlist called The Best Ska Bands You've Never Heard Of that spotlights 5 criminally underrated ska bands from all over the world, hoping to shine a spotlight on all of the great ska bands making great music under most people's radars. The playlist is updated every Wednesday! 00:00 - Nathan Leigh & the Crisis Actors - This Machine Kills Centrists (Myths, Conspiracy Theories, and Other Stuff I Made Up To Sound Interesting '20) 01:59 - THE AUTOCRATICS - Brainwashed Friends (the Autocratics '17) 04:42 - Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra - Perfect Future (2020 Remaster) (TOKYO SKA TREASURES '20) 08:28 - Karikatura - White Lies (Speak Now '16) 12:35 - Tommy Tornado and the Clerks - Downhill (Back on Track '19) 17:04 - Warsaw Poland Bros. - Summer of Ska (Summer of Ska '19) RJ sez: I added the Tommy Tornado and the Clerks song because, well, I like that band, and this song seemed like it'd be in good company with all the great tracks that Chris chose. There's not too terribly much I can add about Chris that he didn't already cover, but I don't think he mentioned the Lonely Atom Youtube though, so go subscribe to that! I've known Chris for a few years now, he was even a guest on the late Ska After Party and we've kept up with each other via social media all this while. We've actually verified that we've been at shows at the same time, but that was well before we got in touch with each other. So this wraps up the Convoy series. It was a lot of fun these last 7 weeks, and it went so smoothly and brought so much good stuff to the show I'm fixing to find a way to do it all over again. If I'm lucky, I'll find another talented batch of folks to collaborate with! Spotify for The Best Ska Bands You Never Heard Of : https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7go2QY2R4lQ96shgMa70Gf?si=M02HJ2tHRtm8ufuT-nXHUA&fbclid=IwAR1I25nTq5sjvhuU1m77hhY2Qr3r1p7LSJdQ29Q0MiqIJv-o9P4nta7eURE Facebook Group for Touring Ska Bands : https://www.facebook.com/groups/339900962760632/ Youtube of Lonely Atom Records : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7QJo7dcX5hEbQ0zvCbo0OQ Visit the website at http://www.23Ska.com to find links to band websites and songs featured in this episode. Find & follow the show on: Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/23minofSka/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/23minofSka Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/23minofska/ Stitcher - https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/23min-of-ska?refid=stpr If you'd like to submit your band for a future show email: submissions@23ska.com Any other questions or comments, please email: podcast@23ska.com There's a lot of great ska vinyl out there, so head over to our partners in crime at http://www.GrandpasCasino.com RJ is also the co-host of another ska podcast, check out On the Upbeat at https://open.spotify.com/show/2Dsa1Gmt1Pivxo5sFGaxob Session : Eightteen // Episode : 406 // Airdate : April 23rd, 2020

Are you trying to find a way to connect with your audience? Have you told them your story to build the connection? Do you want to position yourself to be a resource for them? In today’s episode, Libby is talking with Liz Bissell. Liz is a  registered dietitian nutritionist dedicated to restoring fertility and health in women with polycystic ovarian syndrome, also called PCOS. Using her science and nutrition background, as well as her own experience with learning how to best manage PCOS using diet and lifestyle changes, Liz developed her Restore Your Fertility one on one coaching program. “If I'm ever veering off, I always go back to why I got started.” - Liz Bissell   In today’s episode… What her nutrition philosophy is? How she approaches her clients in a unique way? What helped her to focus on her message? How she gained the confidence to get people to listen to her message? How her approach to social media has changed? Why it was important to reflect on her own story? How it feels to create an experience on her terms?   Guest Resources: Connect with Liz on Instagram   Free Resources from Libby   Are you ready to start your journey? Apply today for my Dietitian Boss Group Coaching program!

"It's your attitude, not your aptitude...that will determine your altitude!" - Zig Ziglar How are you holding up?  For me, life isn't all that different.  If I'm not on the road speaking, I rarely leave my office.  Even so, the fact that I can't go anywhere is starting to wear on me.  Just the fact that gas prices are so low makes me want to take a road trip....but there's nowhere to go! A lot of our future success depends on the mindset we adapt and that has never been more important than now.  Luckily, I had the opportunity to interview Dr. Ryan Gottfredson who specializes (and wrote a book) about just that....having a success mindset.  He gives a lot of great info in our interview that is research based....so get ready to get blown away! CHEERS! More on Ryan... Ryan Gottfredson, Ph.D. is a mental success coach and cutting-edge leadership consultant, trainer, and researcher. He helps improve organizations, leaders, teams, and employees by improving their mindsets.  Ryan is currently a leadership and management professor at the Mihaylo College of Business and Economics at California State University-Fullerton (CSUF). He holds a Ph.D. in Organizational Behavior and Human Resources from Indiana University.  He has helped dozens of organizations (including CVSHealth, Deutsche Telekom, and Mondelez) enhance the mindsets of their leaders, managers, and employees to make sure they more fully capture their potential. Check out his website HERE!

We're absolutely thrilled to have acupuncturist Jost Sauer back on the pod today sharing his cosmic insights. In today's chat Jost and Mason explore the role of intuitive understanding in the Chinese Medicine model, and how going beyond the linear into the realm of the energy field and consciousness is a key factor in healing. Today's conversation is deep and insightful, Jost is an absolute wealth of knowledge and wisdom, sharing his experience as both a practitioner and student in a easy and accessible way. Dive on in to challenge your analytical mind and expand your cosmic awareness. "With being human comes obligation, and the obligation of the human is to free our blockages. If the whole planet frees the blockages, we are in Paradise." - Jost Sauer Mason and Jost discuss: Intuitive understanding as a foundational pillar in Chinese Medicine. Chinese Medicine and the energetic realms. Five Element Theory. Human beings as energy beings. The soul as our human blueprint. The physical organs vs the energy organs; the Western and Eastern concepts of what these are and what they embody. The life/dealth, Yin/Yang cycle. The importance of a daily Qi practice to creating harmony within the body, mind and spirit - consistency is key here. The definition of health - "my perception of health is the ability to transform symptom into flow." Jost Sauer The body as a crystalline structure. Tonic herbs as messengers from heaven. Fad diets and intermittent fasting. The link between your level of health and your capacity for intuition. Using herbs and practice to clear obstructions in the meridians and energy body.   Who is Jost Sauer? Jost (aka the lifestyle medicine man) was born in Germany in 1958 and is an ex-hippie, anarchist and drug runner turned acupuncturist, popular author and healthy lifestyle expert. His background includes competitive skiing, body-building, and ironman training, but after post-drug suicidal depression led him to martial arts and the study of TCM, he discovered the power of Qi, the cycle of Qi of Chinese medicine and that a natural rhythmic lifestyle holds the secrets to anti-ageing, health and success. Jost has been using lifestyle therapeutically for his clients for over 20 years. Jost is an expert in Chinese Medicine, which he lectured in for over a decade at the Australian College of Natural Medicine, he has been running successful health clinics since 1991, initially specialising in addiction recovery, and has treated tens of thousands of clients. His passion is sharing his ongoing discoveries about making lifestyle your best medicine through his books, blogs, articles, workshops and retreats.   Resources: Jost Website Jost Facebook Jost Instagram Jost Youtube Clock On To Health Book   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Mason: (00:00) Bro, welcome back.   Jost: (00:01) Yep, thank you Mason.   Mason: (00:02) It's so good, man. I had so much fun last time, and... well I'm just stoked that you ended up down here, Bangalow way. We're not back at work yet, but as soon as I knew you were going to be in the area, I was like "Yeah, I'm coming out of my shell," to come and rock another podcast with you.   Jost: (00:18) Yeah, awesome.   Mason: (00:21) How's it been going over... You're at the Starlight festival?   Jost: (00:23) Oh look, I love the Bangalow Starlight festival. I love festivals in the first place because it allows you to meet a lot of people from all different walks of life. And the people connection is crucial. Because obviously in Chinese Medicine, everything is contextual, nothing is absolute. And you can write a book about Chinese Medicine, but unless you meet people and you actually establish a relationship, Chinese Medicine really doesn't work and the beauty of those festivals is you meet people from all different walks of life and you can really meet what goes on in their life and you can find something that is of value to address. Chinese Medicine is... The reason I love it so much is you can... It's so versatile, you can apply it to every situation. And it's a medicine that is designed to evolve and to take you constantly to new levels.   Mason: (01:13) Some of the books are amazing but they're 2D, right? What you're talking about is blowing out that web, of that connection, that invisible web, into a 5D reality, which is the nature of the medicine. If it's 2D, and stays within an institution or a hospital or just one particular context, you're not going to get that full experiential nature of what it is.   Jost: (01:34) No, it's a colorful language. It's a colorful medicine. It's a many thing that goes far beyond the scope that we perceive in our conscious reality. Chinese Medicine, it comes from the energetic realms, it comes from the spiritual realms. So it comes from Qi, it comes from... By the time it's channeled down, and funneled into this narrow red bend reality, it has lost a lot of its meaning. The idea is to expand our horizon and consciousness, again in order to bring the whole complexity of Chinese Medicine into application. And that requires, obviously, thinking outside the box all the time. It requires for you to actually not go linear, because if you go linear you limit the medicine. And the beauty of this medicine is, you can go into any situation and if you're open to it, you always know what to do. Because the intuitive understanding is like the prime element of this medicine and we need to train that.   Jost: (02:40) The intuitive understanding, it's not the something that belongs the conscious mind, it belongs to our energy field, and our soul. And Chinese Medicine has got its origin in this spectrum of the energy field, and understands that the blueprint for everything what we see is in the energy field. And basically, everything that's going to get developed and discovered and invented, already exists in the ether. So, the Chinese already tapped into that. For it to exist in the physical, it must have its origin in the energy field. So, the good thing about that is that in Chinese Medicine, we don't have that doom and gloom thinking. So, a lot of people think, our earth is going to collapse.   Mason: (03:36) Yeah, there's not that ambiguous... That anxiety that comes from the ambiguity of the unknown, right? There's no crisis mode, as you said.   Jost: (03:48) Yeah, no, absolutely no, totally no. Because the fact is that we always find a solution.   Mason: (03:51) Yeah, and that's not just in-   Jost: (03:53) Because there are always people who would tap into the ether, it will not stop. The whole idea of Chinese Medicine, what we experience in the physical reality, is based on the five elements. The water nurtures the wood, the wood feeds the fire, the fire becomes ash, which is earth, the earth evaporates, air, clouds, it rains, it's water, it feeds the wood. It's a cycle that will continue forever. So, that's the biochemistry within the physical, but how to direct the five elements is obviously the mind, it's obviously our perception of where we are going to take that. And that intuitive understanding that takes us to direct the five elements comes from the energy field.   Mason: (04:37) So let's talk about that. You were talking about training your intuitive nature, because that's something that in the West, it seems to be the biggest struggle with taking on, in fullness, Chinese Medicine over into the West, is taking it outside of an analytical, complete system. That's what is happening in the West, everyone wants to still... We talked about it in the last podcast. We started talking about pathology, disease classification and all those kinds of things which doesn't necessarily... You can do it side by side with traditional Chinese Medicine.   Mason: (05:10) However, you try and take Chinese Medicine and make it work through the lens of Western pathology... You're going to basically cut out, which is what we do with surgery all the time, you're going to go and cut out that intuitive nature that is that 5D colourful, living web of medicine that Chinese Medicine really is. So, how do we transfer into a modern time and train that intuitive nature, and bring with it not just this... In the West a lot of people are like, "There's always a solution, always something is going to happen," But it's kind of "Cross my fingers and hope it works," verses when you really are tapped in and your intuition and your nature of where to take your five elements and where to take the healing for yourself and others is coming from a real energetic realm that you're plugged into, right. So that you're not kind of hoping, it's not like a belief system, it's just like, "Well, this is a reality."   Jost: (06:08) It really exists.   Mason: (06:09) It exists, and that's a reality. So how do you train tapping into that reality?   Jost: (06:14) Yeah, you can't use your academic mind for that. Obviously, that's why this is not possible with our daily practice.   Mason: (06:20) Yes.   Jost: (06:21) So, in Chinese Medicine, it states over and over, we are energy beings. Our energy field is structured by the meridian system and the acupuncture meridians and the organ structure exists in the energy field, so every organ is an energy organ. So that means, it's already within us. So, as a soul, before we incarnate, before we come into this physical world, we already got all the instructions about what to do, it's like a survival kit, like a mission statement, a full on instruction manual. It's in each of the energy organs. And the energy organs in Chinese Medicine are the ones, as we talked in the last podcast, are written in upper cases, to differentiate it from the western organ. So-   Mason: (07:09) And it's very important. I just want to reiterate that, that's why we we'll say, "Liver wood," to make sure that we're hitting it, that we're not talking about the lower case 'L' liver organ and that's it. It's a very... as you're saying, it's the entire encapsulation of that wood element, and it happens to be called the Liver.   Jost: (07:31) Yes. Look, the spiritual hierarchy, which the Chinese refer to as heaven, which is governed by Tao, which you could say is God. So, they have created the physical, and they have put in meditators between earth and heaven in order for it to develop, and this is what the souls are. Our souls, when we incarnate, are equipped with our mission, we know exactly what to do. We are given all the instructions for it to grow. The spiritual hierarchy want the earth to become better, it's the plan. The mission is for the earth to become a beautiful planet, that's the aim. We will not destroy this, because there is always really good souls coming in with instructions in the energy organ of knowing exactly what to do.   Jost: (08:18) So, the example I use is, someone was 50 years of age, who gets a new iPhone. They don't know what to do because the iPhone, or the smart phone is not coming with an instruction manual. So, what do you do? You give your phone to your five-year-old niece. And she immediately shows you how to use that phone. So the instruction of how to use that phone is already in the energy field of that young child.   Mason: (08:45) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Jost: (08:46) Yes? They already understand, before they incarnated, they already had all the instructions. So they look at iPhone, iPad, bang, they know what to do.   Mason: (08:54) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Jost: (08:55) Yes? So obviously we don't have that, at my age I didn't have that in my organ system, I have to learn it, I have to acquire it, but the young child has it and they get it. So, we constantly got souls coming in with information in the energy organ that will have all the solutions in order to bring the earth to the next. Because this is why, like at Bangalow, you meet a lot of conspiracists, and a lot of people who believe in doom and gloom, and there's a lot of people from the surrounding area that run around and tell you, "This is it, the earth is going to collapse next year."   Mason: (09:30) Very pessimistic, yeah. Very. And I've been there as well, it's a very analytical place. But that doom and gloom, it's hard to get out sometimes when you think, "But this is the reality of it, and if I look away from it then all of a sudden I'm going to shut down and become one of the sheep." Verse, by broadening your awareness of what is actually going on.   Jost: (09:50) Yes. It will not collapse. Why? I mean, it took the spiritual hierarchy billions of years to build all this, they've got a big plan, they've got a big mission, they know what they're doing. The fact is, it's regulated by Yin and Yang. The physical is always subject to Yin and Yang. That means creation and destruction co-exist. That means, for us to move to the next, there will be destruction. Of course we see the destruction, but the destruction is not the end.   Mason: (10:16) Mm-hmm (affirmative)   Jost: (10:17) You know? It's the beginning of the new. It's a transformation. Like in therapy. 40 years in my work as a therapist, in order to make someone healthier, in order to transform, you destroy a lot. Like in my training in Chinese martial art, we create a new body.   Mason: (10:33) Mm-hmm (affirmative)   Jost: (10:35) Yeah? I create a new body, every day I train I create a new body. But in order to create a new body, I destroy the previous aspect of my body. That means I'm always in pain. Yes? I'm always destroy an aspect of my body. It's like body building of a car. If you want to get a new panel done, you destroy, you wreck the car first and then you put new panels on. So, the earth goes through that process, it's an evolution.   Jost: (10:58) So obviously, if we don't understand the process of transformation and if we aren't have the intuitive understanding develop that means we are aligning with the energy field, we can get trapped in destruction. We can get trapped in the observation of "It's destroying itself." That means we are so trapped. And this is regulated by the physical body, and unfortunately, the Liver energy is responsible for that. If the Liver Qi is stagnant and the Liver Qi doesn't move, that means you actually... It's not moving proper, it can get stuck. Because the Liver is directly going to the Heart, to the Fire Element, and that's where your perception of awareness comes in. Your mind perceives by the Heart. If the Liver Qi is stagnant, the mind gets stuck on one aspect, it gets stuck on the destruction, it can't see the creation, it can't move on to the next.   Jost: (11:55) So now you see doom and gloom. You see Yang but not Yin. So you see a Yin Yang symbol but only with the yang. And so Liver Qi stagnation is unfortunately a by product of a lifestyle. So a lifestyle, if we don't develop the skills to make the Liver Qi move, we cause Liver Qi stagnation. Liver chi stagnation can come easily from inappropriate way of living. For example, marijuana, pot, impacts on the Liver. If you smoke regular, what it can do, it can actually stop the Liver Qi moving. So what happens now? It becomes a staccato towards the Fire. Now the mind can't perceive the next so it gets stuck on the destructive aspect. It sees Yang but not Yin.   Mason: (12:46) Yeah.   Jost: (12:47) Marijuana can do that. I've been observing drugs for a long time, and this is one of the side effects of pot that it can make you stuck on only perceiving Yang, not Yin. And that means now you can see it's going to get doom and gloom, it's going to destroy. Now you perceive reality, "The earth is going to die." So, the fact is that all of us actually know exactly what it's about and we just need to get to the intuitive understanding of our body, and that requires the Qi to flow. If the Qi flows, that means it goes through all the other organ systems, now we've got access directly to our energy field, now we have access to information about our mission, we suddenly understand. So this is where it goes into, we need to do the practice every day. So we need a daily practice. So, yeah.   Mason: (13:43) Well this is what I like, I mean, this is a nature of Chinese Medicine that's highly made that transfer over into the West, but not fully, is that one that, if we're talking about Liver Qi stagnation, are we going to just unlearn how to understand that and just bring into our household an understanding of what that is, or are we going to go to a practitioner. Okay, we can go to a practitioner and get some needling and get things moving.   Mason: (14:07) But as you were saying, daily practice, procuring your own ability to keep your own Qi moving so that you become your own practitioner. And then, I think from looking at that Yang side of things, whether it's conspiracy, or... we're always looking for solutions, with Yang it's doom and gloom so we're looking for like, how do we right this wrong. And so, right the wrong is the mentality of "I am a patient, I need to go to a doctor, I am sick, I've got a symptom, I need to right this wrong." And then when you do get the Qi moving, and you have the Yin, that accumulative energy and that calm and that still energy of the Yin, you can start to... The mind, the Heart energy can move and the mind can start moving towards not so much as a problem solution and what I'm fixing in myself every day with my practice, but something more exploratory, something more cultivating, something more exciting.   Mason: (15:00) So, with the daily practice. Let's have a look at that simplicity, because that's something I like hitting again and again and again with everybody. So theoretically, what does it feel like for you, when you get there and you say "Okay, there's the potential for Liver Qi stagnation, however I am in here in a not solving problems, in a not fixing myself state of mind." What is your state of mind? Are you exploring yourself? Are you looking for longevity? What does it feel like?   Jost: (15:32) I look for to free my energy field. Okay, so our job as human beings, in order to be of benefit to creation, that means we are of benefit to others and ourselves, so we benefit creation. In order to be beneficial to others and to life, I need to free my obstructions in the meridian system. So if my acupuncture meridian are free flowing, I am without... Without a deliberate action, I am good to others, I'm not planning to be good, I'm naturally good. So I'm not deliberately good. I'm not going and making a conscious decision to be good, I'm automatically good because my energy flows freely, I'm automatically embracing the situation from the best perspective, and I'm naturally considering the person as a friend. So our job as humans is to actually clear the blockages in the meridian. So I don't have actually a future thinking, because I've been doing it for so long so I perceive myself as a soul, a soul doesn't think future, because it's infinite.   Mason: (16:43) Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.   Jost: (16:46) I'm in the present, yeah? Because that's the only thing that matters to the soul. So I don't actually go far into the future, maybe I should but I can't actually go in.   Mason: (16:58) Maybe for a bit of fun.   Jost: (17:01) The fact is that every morning when I wake up, the only thing that concerns me is the blockages in my field, and I know exactly there are blockages in my large intestine meridian. If I don't correct them, it can't control my Wood. If it can't control the Wood, I will have irritability and crankiness, that means I most likely will harm someone by saying something rude, or I feel irritable and cranky and angry, that means I harm myself.   Mason: (17:30) Mm-hmm (affirmative), are you a Lung constitution? A Metal constitution?   Jost: (17:34) No, no, it's a fluctuating system anyway.   Mason: (17:38) Yeah, of course.   Jost: (17:39) It's like... Now that's like a general approach. Every morning, I know exactly, I'm going to look at whatever the obstructions are-   Mason: (17:48) What's your process of... Just scanning?   Jost: (17:50) Yeah, it's scanning, yeah. So, the dominating symptom, that's what I mean with "It's fluctuating." So it's not a dominating element, there is always a dominating symptom, and the symptom in Chinese Medicine, the symptom belongs to the body, it's subject of the physical body but it doesn't belong to the soul, it's not property of the soul. The energy field does not know symptoms, the soul of our nature is pure awareness, joy, bliss, but the soul incarnates into the physical and that means it matches itself with the central nervous system of the physical body and that causes symptoms, that's pain. And that's sensory, and that leads to thinking. So, in the mornings, I will always wake up to a dominating thinking, a thought, and a dominating symptom. So it could be a pain in the knee, it could be... With me, obviously because of my injuries from when I was hard into sport, so usually injuries come up like an aching knee, aching hip, something like that. Or if I worked too much in the day before and I got too intensely involved with transformational processes with my clients, I have energy stuck from that previous day and that gives me a squeezy sick feeling in the stomach. And so, whatever it is... Or I feel lethargic, or depression, whatever.   Jost: (19:19) The fact is, whatever is dominating, I sink into that. And then I use my body to clear the meridians. So I hold onto that symptoms, I don't drink coffee. I don't do anything to override the symptoms. I love coffee, but I drink coffee when I don't need it.   Mason: (19:36) Yeah, that's the way. Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Jost: (19:38) Yeah. It's just a... I love coffee, I love cake, I love everything, I love red wine. That's the beauty of living that way is that you can enjoy everything, I'm not trapped in you need juice diet, I'm not trapped in any diets. If you put the focus on clearing your energy field first, you are in charge of substance. That means you know what to do because you don't need it. So if I wake up and drink coffee to get going, I override the symptom, I'm giving the instructions now to the body and to my energy field, and I don't actually want to clear that. So what happens now is, I actually stop getting access to my information about my intuitive understanding. So if I wake up and get straight into coffee, into sugar, into distractions, into cigarettes, or meeting people or having a call-   Mason: (20:34) On the phone?   Jost: (20:34) Yeah, on the phone. What happens now is I'm actually stopping, what happens is I stop the internet connection to my energy field. So it's like I got my computer but no internet connection. So my energy field has got all the information. To access that information, I need to unblock the obstructions in my energy field first.   Mason: (20:59) And you're using your physical practice to do that?   Jost: (21:01) Yes. This is the beauty of... If you love yoga, you do yoga. If you do core training, you take core training. If you do stretches, you do stretches. If you love TRX ropes, you use TRX ropes. If you love martial arts, you do Tai-chi. It's really irrelevant what practice you do as long as you know why you do it.   Mason: (21:22) So talk a little bit about that. Are we talking about intent here, like if you have an intention to move through? And what you were saying before about whatever deficiency or blockage we are experiencing that day, and watching to see if you know or if you don't... We all know it really well, because we know where we get emotionally hung up during the day and we know where we lack a bit of compassion or empathy or where we get angry at people. For me, it's criticism, and it's mostly... It might come up as criticism for others but I feel that if I go a little bit further, I can feel that real hectic criticism of myself that it's emerging from. But I know that's my blockage, right? And that's an interesting thing, it was a good reminder from you the other day. I can't remember what you said specifically on Instagram, but you were like, "Look, there's no bad people or bad emotions, it's just an energetic blockage."   Jost: (22:09) Yeah.   Mason: (22:09) Right. Super fascinating. So you're saying, no matter what your physical practice is... Because I like that approach as well. It doesn't really matter what your... Everything can be your spiritual practice, everything can be your energetic practice.   Jost: (22:20) Yeah, everything is a spiritual practice, as long as you know what you do. You need to know why you do it. So if you understand that what the practice is, from a physics perspective, exercise is like piezoelectricity. It acts on crystallization and the obstructions in the crystalline arrangement. So what happens is that when we have a blockage in the energy field, that blockage is, as physics has identified, is in fact a crystalline arrangement. It's like... Your acupuncture point is in fact a crystal. So if the energy is not moving through it's because a crystalline arrangement has been. That's what pain is. When we try to avoid pain, and don't move in a certain area with our body, we actually enhance the obstruction, and that becomes a crystal, it's like crystal. And that crystal is memories, it's full with all kind of memories about issues, whatever that is.   Mason: (23:24) So that is crystalline, sedimenty, like a deposit within the-   Jost: (23:31) Yes. When you use Chinese massage therapy, which is an enormous, complex field, which takes... in China, you study medicine first, then you specialize in Tuina, which is the Chinese massage therapy. So all up, seven years, eight years before you are actually allowed to work on people. And what they do, they sit on the point with the knuckle, and they know exactly, "This is a crystal." So what they do is they apply piezoelectricity on that point. Piezoelectricity means, you are putting pressure on the crystal. If you apply pressure on a crystal, the energy that's inherent in the crystal will now be released. That's the sister of the cigarette lighter, the electric cigarette lighter. In a cigarette lighter, you have a crystal and you put pressure on it, the energy, and it gets connected to the gas that becomes the flame. Cars used to have a piezoelectricity. Piezoelectricity is a physics fact, everyone can Google it, it all comes up.   Jost: (24:34) But our body is also piezoelectricity, it's a crystalline arrangement. When our meridian system matches with the central nervous system, that merging becomes crystalline, it's a crystalline arrangement. So the meridians have got different pathways to the nervous system, but the crystalline arrangement is the result of the two. And it's the process of the energy with the central nervous system, the blood flow etc. So the crystalline arrangement doesn't belong to the soul, but it's incarnate and matched with the central nervous system, it becomes crystalline. So that's why when you sit on a certain point it can transmit energy all the way up the other part of the body.   Mason: (25:18) Yeah, right.   Jost: (25:18) Yeah, and so this is where death point striking in kung fu comes into, we know exactly what point to hit. In that moment, you hit the acupuncture point and the blockage in the crystal now gets reversed and it stops the flow and people die. Death point strike, it's called dim mak. So obviously it takes decades to study and learn and by the time you master this art you have no interest in applying it.   Mason: (25:47) Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah the way it normally goes.   Jost: (25:49) But healing is exactly the same thing. So the healing, the Tuina, the Chinese massage therapy, understands that the blockage is the cause of the problem because that crystal stops the energy being taken to the energy organ and stops the energy from the energy organ to be moved to the other parts of the body. It basically physically stops intuitive understanding to be developed. So the question we started at the beginning is how to develop intuitive understanding, the answer to that is, to free the meridians of its blockages and that means we have to go into the crystalline arrangement and actually free the blockages. Because once you have the blockages free, that means your senses, your awareness merges, your thoughts meet your soul nature and the awareness of your soul nature now influences your thoughts. Suddenly your thoughts are generated by your soul awareness rather than by conscious mind, reflection, analysis.   Jost: (26:58) So instead of going into using your conscious mind and you're looking at a rational formula, your thoughts, if the energy flows freely to the energy organ, because the crystalline arrangement has been taken care of, what happens now is that your thoughts are influenced by the awareness of the soul. Means when you talk to someone, you suddenly know... You just suddenly understand, you suddenly see a blue print of something. For example, if someone talks about a problem, and you suddenly know. That's what the seer is used in therapy, like in the old days when people had a problem, they had to see the shaman. The shaman was able to connect his thoughts to the soul awareness and suddenly saw, suddenly knew what to do.   Mason: (27:51) It's so simple as well. That was the thing... When I was first getting into it, in talking to you about it, it's real electric and romantic and it's amazing and the language can go... You're like "Oh whoa, you do this and this and the thing goes into this and goes into the energy organ," but we all know the experience. If everyone listening, and I mean, even for myself, this is a really familiar place, when you just have those days when you're moving your body a few days in a row in a way that is unblocking whatever needs to be unblocked, right? Its not like a mental idea of trying to get fit or trying to fix myself in any way, I'm just moving, enjoying that movement, exploring my body.   Jost: (28:32) And you get unblocked, that's all it is.   Mason: (28:34) Just unblocking. And then after a few days you get into a little bit more of a flow, because maybe you've been sleeping a little bit better and just eating a little bit better and all of a sudden you're popping and the ideas start coming to you and you're talking to someone and as you were saying... Everyone knows this experience, maybe I can feel what they're going through a little bit, I can relate a little bit and then you just have a really nice conversation and that person comes off feeling a little bit better. It doesn't need to get much more complex than that, that's like that flow state of a day.   Mason: (29:03) I think what's for me where I've always got tripped up is I've gone... I've thought it needed to be more complex than that and I thought I needed to work harder and I needed to move more and do more Qigong or do more stretching or more standing meditation to compound it verses just allowing it to be a nice, gentle consistent building over time and really going, and sure, Mason, that you can relate, you're going nice and slow and steady enough, and you're going to be able to keep this up for the next four, five, six decades. And that's something I'm really coming back to at the moment, just how simple it is and how simple the intention, in all its complexity, just to be, just to get tapped into your intuition, a little bit, doesn't need-   Jost: (29:48) The key is consistency.   Mason: (29:50) Far out, isn't it.   Jost: (29:51) It's consistency is the key. The latest discoveries in performance sport therapy, it's all about, you never go to the extreme, but it's consistency. When people look at my body, they always know, because I'm very conditioned and they always go like, "My god, you must be hardcore in weight training and things like..." Firstly, I don't touch weights. But it's about... The people "How do you get the cut look, how do you get so cut?"   Mason: (30:17) "How do you get chiseled?" Yeah.   Jost: (30:18) How do you get chiseled? Consistency!   Mason: (30:20) Yeah.   Jost: (30:22) Every day! Consistency! Years after year, consistency, that's the key. I'm not strong, I'm consistent. But in the consistent, you become strong.   Mason: (30:32) You become really strong.   Jost: (30:32) Yes, that's it. So, I'm not going for the strength, I'm going for consistency, then the consistency over time, that makes you strong. It's a totally different approach, in Taoist view.   Mason: (30:41) Well you completely bypass the mental idea of what strong is, as a gain and as something to own, and you start awakening this phenomena of strength from your body, right?   Jost: (30:52) Yeah. You don't go hardcore, for example if it says 50 kilos on the bench press, I would do 30. I mean, I don't do bench press. But the idea is to... In case you would do this, yeah. So you never go to the extreme, but you're going to do it every day. And that's the key. This is where a lot of really incredible physiques, like the Russian sport conditioning, they are leaders in the field.   Mason: (31:19) Insane.   Jost: (31:20) Unbelievable what that dude.. Pavlov one of my heroes, I love their bodies, let's talk about it here, this Russian sport condition. But those guys, they're in their seventies, they've got incredible physiques, they're 80 years old, they've got physiques like mindboggling. Their key is consistent. Every day, every day, every day, just build and build and build. Because what happens is, this is where, if you every day honored, you de-obstruct the blockages, you free the blockages. What happens now? The energy field is coming in. The energy field always rejuvenates the body. This is the key to longevity. You see, the physical body, which in Chinese Medicine we call Po, P, O. The physical body is destined to die, is temporary, but the energy, which we call Hun, H, U, N, is infinite. So the energy always rejuvenates the body.   Jost: (32:14) So when we talk about longevity, the interesting thing is my focus is not longevity, my focus is the obstructive blockages, but that leads to longevity. My focus is not strength, my focus is consistency that leads me to strength.   Mason: (32:28) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, amazing.   Jost: (32:31) So it's always a secondary outcome. So my goal is always a secondary... It's almost like a secondary outcome.   Mason: (32:40) Yeah. Which takes a lot of strength within itself. To be able to hold your focus enough, and not get caught up in that... And not get invalidated right away, especially.   Jost: (32:53) Yeah, the beauty is that you develop the skills enough that after a while you just don't... I don't buy into people's... I mean, you've got eight billion people on this planet, and as soon as the soul incarnates into the physical, and that means it matches with the nervous system. In that moment, the soul experiences thoughts, so obviously that leads to an opinion. So that means we've got eight billion opinions on the earth. You can't follow people's opinions, you've got to find your own way here. And the Buddha said, "Don't believe anyone, not even me." And so I don't buy into anything. When I read something about diet, whatever, I just let it go by. But it's the energy field by that shows me where it is, the intuitive understanding needs to be, that's the key element. And interesting thing is, intuitive understanding can be only developed if you live healthy.   Jost: (33:53) So the next answer to the question how to develop intuitive understanding is to be healthy. So the interesting thing is that the intuitive understanding will not come to you if you unhealthy.   Mason: (34:03) Mm-hmm (affirmative), if you're unhealthy, yeah.   Jost: (34:05) Just because someone says "I have an intuitive understanding," you don't know where that comes from, it could be thought process from the physical body. The physical body is very limited in its knowledge, yes? So you can't go by that. So just because something comes in, you don't know what it is. But the fact that... The healthier you are, the more you know.   Mason: (34:24) Mm-hmm (affirmative). I guess what you were saying is that there's variations in health as well. I mean, the difference being, can you be on a explore what real blossoming health is for you...   Jost: (34:42) Okay, my perception of health is the ability to transform symptom into flow.   Mason: (34:48) On a daily-?   Jost: (34:49) That's health. Because that means, whatever level you are, your health is an indicator how you transform your symptom. So you're 80 years of age, and you've got a symptom, like creaky back or achy bones, you can't get out of bed. But, you transform that, and you get out of bed. That's health.   Mason: (35:06) Or even like further internally, right, if you're looking at anxiousness, obsessiveness. That's the most difficult thing, I think, that's where you see... It's where I've caught myself in the biggest trap and going like, "Right, I'm really healthy, and then I'm physically healthy and now I'm going to maintain this state of health." And then all of a sudden, because I've got more energy, it brought up my own self-awareness of my own blockages. I was talking about that criticism, and all these things. So all of a sudden at that point, you look down the barrel of going, "All right, I thought it was hard to overcome physical symptoms. Far out, now I'm going to open up a can of worms of going..." Without pressuring yourself, because there's this all this pressure to become a perfect human when you're in this world, and you're hanging out at Bangalow Starlight festival, you've got to have your sainthood on. You can't be... Can't admit that you're an overly angry person or an anxious person. There's like a cachet that comes with being in the scene.   Mason: (36:16) But the reality of it is, without... Yeah, you got to be working on your, make sure your back isn't hurting, make sure you're stretching so that these physical symptoms aren't going to get you. But then going in and working on transforming that nature of yourself which is super critical or paranoid or whatever that is. That takes a lot of energy. I feel like, that's where a transparency on, and knowing that it's okay to still have these reactions and still have these things that come up.   Jost: (36:49) Yes. We can't not have symptoms, it's not possible. Because every day, our job as humans is to expand the current state of the earth. And it will be regulated by the hierarchy, who has given us information in the energy field of what to do. So the earth will expand. Our job is to keep doing that. But while doing it, while we grow the earth and grow ourselves, we also, that means we are subject to Yin and Yang, that means we also experience destruction. So while I create, all day... Today I focus on creating, tomorrow when I wake up, I experience the destructive aspect of creation. So if I override that, ignore, I'm actually going backwards. That's what they're saying. So what that means is, I'm moving towards my physical body, rather than towards the soul. That means, now, as I move to my physical body and I become more and more the physics... But then I go to a health fair like Bangalow Starlight festival and I'm supposed to be a healer and a soul person, and if I'm in the physical body and not in my soul... If I'm in the physical body but not naturally in my soul, that means I now have to project. I have to do a conceptual view on who I am. That means I have to project, I can't be natural, I have to project. So now I live a double life. Yes?   Mason: (38:19) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, and all... Now you feel like... Now who are the fraudulents.   Jost: (38:24) So now I have to project to be the saint, whereas in fact I'm stuck in the physical. But the fact is that every morning, I wake up to be the sinner, and after my practice, I am the saint. So if I wake up and don't deal with my physical symptoms, of course I get more and more trapped and it becomes in brackets not the saint. So now I have to obviously project to others that I am the saint, whereas the beauty is once you start constantly de-obstructing, you don't actually care what you project to others, you become free of that need. I'm totally free of the need to project, because I deal with that in my morning practice and then I don't care what other people think of me. I just actually don't give a toss what other people think of me. Yeah?   Mason: (39:13) Yeah, liberating, yeah.   Jost: (39:15) And people who know me know that. I learned that from the masters that I studied under. They don't live in the eyes of other people, they don't live as an accord with your expectations, yes?   Mason: (39:32) Mm-hmm (affirmative)   Jost: (39:33) They are eccentrics, they follow their path. If that suits you or not, that's your problem.   Mason: (39:36) I feel ya, I'm like... That's like-   Jost: (39:40) But you're never obnoxious, you're never bad because your energy is flowing freely so by nature you are compassionate. You're just in a slightly different way than other people think you should be, but you don't care.   Mason: (39:52) I mean, it's refreshing having someone... That's always when you go, "All right, I'm going to start... I'm in the presence of someone that's I want to procure some Shen here some wisdom but without the obnoxiousness, like not... because when I was growing up, in the West, it was either... I'm someone who is very self-aware in the sense that I'm very aware of that it's all made up. Other people looking at me and other people judging me, that's been my whole life, that has been my biggest weight on my shoulders. And then, what I could see, what was projected in the West most of the time were those people that, especially when I was young, those people that didn't care what other people were thinking of them, comes with a slice of obnoxiousness as well. And so as a young person, especially watching a lot of shitty media, maybe do I just need to be obnoxious? And then you play around with that and go through all those kinds of areas and then you get to this point when, as you were saying, awareness of this nature of right, and you can get consistency and clear that energy and, as I say, the whole point of taking the herbs is ideally to become less of an asshole and more of an awesome person. Would that kind of be it?   Jost: (40:59) Yes, that's the point.   Mason: (41:00) That's the point.   Jost: (41:03) Because herbs, herbs act on obstructions and the blockages. That's why herbs are crucial, that's why your mushrooms, your medicinal mushrooms, all that stuff, ashwagandha... It's your first step, it's essential. It's always superior to food because herbs act on the crystalline arrangement more in a concentrated form than food would do. So the example I use is herbs act on crystals, crystalline arrangements and the obstructive blockages like dish washing liquid would act on greasy pots. If you have a greasy pot and you want to clean it, you can scrub that pot under hot water all day, you go nowhere. One drop of dish washing liquid and bang you take it off. And that's to me like a good serve of ashwagandha, a good serve of astragalus, a good serve of good mushrooms, put it all together, have the tea after your morning practice. It flushes the meridian and it de-obstructs the blockages like dishwashing liquid would act on greasy pots.   Mason: (42:09) I like that. Okay so when with the crystalline arrangement, can you explain to me again the process of are we helping to align that crystalline nature or actually clear-   Jost: (42:19) No, we... The clearing of the blockage, the clearing of the crystal means you apply pressure on the crystal.   Mason: (42:25) Right.   Jost: (42:25) So that means you put yourself in a... The whole principal of the pyramids, of the Egyptian pyramids is the center of the fire, where it meets, it's about the pressure of the "Phwoar!", you're going right in. When you look at the "Whaaa!" Sorry.   Mason: (42:26) No, go for it.   Jost: (42:38) When it's really deep concentration practice, what you do... Your whole awareness, your consciousness, everything and your body becomes like a pyramid and you're compressing inside the center of fire, and that means that in that moment what you're doing, you're putting... You're applying a three dimensional pressure on the crystal from all different angles, all around. And in that moment if you apply pressure on it, like "Phwooar!" In that moment the energy naturally gets freed and now it shoots out, and now it frees itself. So you keep going, keep going, keep going so the crystal which maybe starts the size of a one inch radius, diameter, and then eventually becomes like a little coin. So initially it starts like the size of an apple, and eventually it becomes the seed of a poppy seed.   Mason: (43:29) Mm-hmm (affirmative)   Jost: (43:30) Yeah? So if you sit with this, you could de-obstruct the whole body in a sitting of 16 years, according to the knowledge of the Vedas. You can become enlightened in 16 years if you just sit there for 16 years and de-obstruct every blockage. And that moment, enlightenment means, the energy just flushes through your body, according to their view of that whole thing.   Jost: (43:54) So the obstruction is the crystal, the pressure is three dimensional. So that's why it's something we need to be engaged with, so we can't just do it... We need to use the body for that. I mean, some people can do it without a body, but it takes a lot of training. Yeah, some of the Tibetan Buddhists in the Himalaya obviously don't use... But they're so strong. I studied under some of those guys, unbelievable strength. I mean, I'm pretty fit and I look at those guys and my god. It's not like... They don't do this visualization technique that you learn in New Age, you know this...   Mason: (44:34) They're like actually living it and doing it. Effortless effort.   Jost: (44:39) They are in a constant applying pressure on the crystal three dimensional constantly.   Mason: (44:46) Yeah, right.   Jost: (44:47) They can sit in 40 degrees, minus, just with a loin cloth. And the pressure on the crystal is so strong, it emanates the energy, they are actually hot and they melt the snow. And I've seen those guys and it's unbelievable training. So my training is with the Chen Tai Chi, and it focuses, it does the same thing so when we do the stands we focus and every body becomes like... You just unite with every meridians. So after about 20 minutes you can feel very meridian system, you can feel every blockage and you are just fully engaging with every obstruction, with the main obstruction, and you can feel in that moment you are just completely applying pressure on it.   Jost: (45:29) So this is something we are all trained to do, we are all programmed to do. We just have to introduce to the initial techniques and we will find it. That's the beauty of that. We all have that in our energy field. Everyone who is physical form, in human body, already has the instructions in their energy body how to do this. You just have to start.   Mason: (45:56) You just have to start and not think about it too much. You just have to... Yeah. I mean, that's always my trip up, I'm like "Should I really, should I be doing that technique, should I move on from that technique a little bit, maybe that's not..." And I'm like sitting down and just watching myself... And it's not even sabotage, it's well intended to an extent but it's just... You overthink it and it's just like "Dude, just do something."   Jost: (46:23) But before we start the practice, we are always dominated, our awareness, we are thinking, we are in the body. So, when we start the practice, we are in the body. Of course we don't want to do it.   Mason: (46:36) Yeah.   Jost: (46:37) You just... I've never had a day, I've never had a morning I woke up and said "I can't wait to get into it." Every morning it's a struggle, it's a battle. Because you wake up, you're in the energy field. Now you don't want to get up. This is why the Chinese called it "From the senses, to mind, to Qi." So when I wake up, every morning, I get immediately confronted with the sensory. What it means is, I don't want to get up, I want to give in to the pleasure of sleeping, I want to roll over, I want to stay in bed, I want to give into my senses. So I know I have to use my mind, to push against it. And my mind says, "I have to do business, I have to do work." Yes? So that's the step, that gets you out of bed.   Jost: (47:27) However, the Taoists say, "From the senses, to the mind, to Qi." So, meaning, we wake up, we resist the senses, that means we don't give into the pleasure to stay in bed. We use the mind to get up. But now we're using the mind to move towards Qi. So we don't use the mind to go to work, we don't use the mind to get to the computer and write, we don't use the mind to go on Instagram. We don't use the mind to argue with other people. We use the mind to force the body into a posture. And once the body gets into a posture, automatically, you start de-obstructing the meridian fields. Now the intuitive understanding is coming into it, that means I'm starting to feel good.   Mason: (48:12) Mm-hmm (affirmative)   Jost: (48:13) Yes? So, now I understand what to do, I can follow. But I can't follow unless I'm in there. Of course, every morning it's the battle from the senses, to the mind, to chi. In the Western world this is the real battle because for getting out of bed, then you have to battle business.   Mason: (48:33) Or social obligations, communications....   Jost: (48:36) You have to battle... Yeah, it's like the mind wants to immediately ride, get involved, do stuff. Because when I wake up, I finally get out of bed, I immediately want to "Oh I've got this idea, I want to write this down, I want to go on my iPad and write this idea down, I'm just awesome, I've got this perfect understanding... I've got to write this." Of course I want to check my emails. But no! From the mind, to Qi. So I use the mind to put the body into the posture that allows piezoelectricity to happen, that means I de-obstruct the blockages.   Jost: (49:13) Once I de-obstruct the blockages, I now go into Qi. Now I am soul awareness, of course, and now I... That's joy and once I'm in there, I don't want to stop. Difficult to start, very difficult to stop.   Mason: (49:31) And then you need to use your mind like "All right, come back down to earth, mate!"   Jost: (49:36) That's why I'm always late, because once I'm in there, I can't stop. I'm always late, for the Bangalow festival, supposed to be there at a certain time. I'm always late because I'm fully immersed in my Qi, in my practice. I can't just lie, "Yeah, I've got plenty of time."   Mason: (49:53) Yeah, right.   Jost: (49:55) Plenty of time. It's too good. But when I wake up, oh I don't want to do this. And then when I'm in there, oh this is good, I don't want to stop.   Mason: (50:05) Do you share practices from your Tai Chi lineage and do you share the forms or the postures anywhere outside of a workshop?   Jost: (50:19) I have a lineage I follow, I follow the Chen Village.   Mason: (50:23) Do you teach that?   Jost: (50:24) No, I don't teach it.   Mason: (50:25) Oh you don't teach it, right, right.   Jost: (50:29) I study Tai Chi, and I practice. So my lineage is Chen Tai chi and that's the oldest Tai Chi, that's the original Tai chi.   Mason: (50:38) Yeah, that's how it was fascinating when we got into that last podcast, yeah.   Jost: (50:41) I just tell everyone, just give it a try.   Mason: (50:44) How would they give it a try?   Jost: (50:45) Yeah, well the beauty of that is there are Chen schools everywhere these days.   Mason: (50:49) Yeah, right.   Jost: (50:49) They're everywhere. You just pull it up on Google, it comes up. 50 years ago, you couldn't find it.   Mason: (50:54) It just exploded, didn't it.   Jost: (50:56) This is the best time to live because you can find access to any technique anywhere. There are courses about Qigong like for $9 or $14 on Udemy. It's mind boggling. There are masters who are showing you every move. Like Chen Xiaowang, one of the greatest master in the history, Tai Chi master, his power is unbelievable. And you can constantly research him on YouTube. 30 years ago, for hundreds of years ago, it was fiercely guarded. Now it's available for everyone.   Mason: (51:29) Boom! It just opened, yeah.   Jost: (51:31) We live in... We've got everyone, everything is available. So everyone's got a smart phone, so on a click and on a swipe of a digital device, you have instant access to the latest technique.   Mason: (51:44) It's insane, that's insane. That's how I feel. Sometimes I walk into the warehouse here, and I look at the herbs sitting on the shelf, and I know the story... The adventure over thousands of years, of that herb. Thousands and thousands of that thing in a particular little area, the hermit's understanding it and working with it to... Maybe there's a village or some grandmothers who just hold onto ensuring that they know how to go and harvest it and introduce it to their children, and the family. And then all of a sudden it becomes famous and the Emperor's just send out and horde all of the reishi mushroom or all of whatever it is. And then Mao coming in, somewhat beginning to destroy the Taoist approach to herbalism. Yet there is just a couple of masters who bring it through, and then one of those masters teaches it to a student that goes over to America.   Mason: (52:43) Then all of a sudden someone "Boom! Bang!" And all of a sudden... Not realizing as well that the people who have guarded these lineages and these martial arts and these herbal practices and even just growing methods, really fiercely the integrity. Which is sometimes the hardest thing to do but yet you still just have to get involved, get an understanding of the terrain and then you can learn what quality movement and quality herbs... You just get a little bit of understanding, you just need to get moving to begin with. And then all of a sudden, we've got astragalus, ginseng-   Jost: (53:17) In supermarkets!   Mason: (53:21) But, everywhere! I look at how many-   Jost: (53:21) I saw it in IGA the other day.   Mason: (53:24) That's like, well some IGA's-   Jost: (53:26) A big bottle of astragalus, I couldn't believe it!   Mason: (53:28) In Maleny, where were you?   Jost: (53:29) No that was in Sunshine Coast, in IGA! Beside toilet paper!   Mason: (53:31) Far out. I mean, that's like when the first... I think Maleny was an IGA that two years ago, they asked me to come and do a talk, and they had sold like 150 tickets through IGA to come and learn. And I wasn't told... I'm kind of, we'll have to... We should do an event together one day. But when I do my talks, I'm probably similar to you, you just start and like "Ba ba ba ba ba." But I'm not going, reishi is good for this, we'd go on through Jing Qi Shen and each have a little chat about it. And there we are sitting there with a supermarket conversation, supermarket customers coming in and learning about this stuff. It was mind-boggling. And to be able to get Di Tao like wild oak reishi, spring fed reishi from high mountains around places like Darby Mountains in IGA's in Maleny, IGA's in supermarkets all over the place. And for a mum of four to whose here living in the suburbs of Australia to be getting access to these Jing herbs and then at the same time they can put away five minutes to study one of the most ancient Tai Chi practices in the world because they just went and had a look on YouTube. Phwaor!   Mason: (54:50) We are so inundated with choice as well, that is what trips people up is that there is some much choice and so many, like, "Am I going to pick the right path?" It's just like, "Just get going!"   Jost: (55:01) Just get going, yeah.   Mason: (55:03) Far out, you just got to get going. And every month you have to remind yourself of that, right? Or every day, you kind of need to start afresh, yeah?   Jost: (55:11) It doesn't matter where you start, whatever makes the most sense to you and whatever you are most drawn to. I would always say the easier way is to just get herbs, get energizing herbs first.   Mason: (55:22) What are your top energizing herbs?   Jost: (55:24) I would probably always say if you want to get the ball rolling, get astragalus as your base. Astragalus has to be your basic. Then you want astragalus and rehmannia with it. And then siberian ginseng, or maybe ren shen, which is like... because according to my observation, the tens of thousands of people I've worked with in my time, and it's 40 years spanning now. That combination helps everyone.   Mason: (55:58) So good.   Jost: (55:59) Yeah. The beauty of the ashwagandha and astragalus combinations and the rehmannia is that they actually adapt to the situation. So if you've got too much Yang, it's going to focus on the Yin first. So if you're too hyper, you're going to get sleepy first.   Mason: (56:15) Well that's an interesting thing with ren shen especially, but even astragalus. But people go, well with astragalus people go like "Okay this is an energizing tonic," and they get on to it and like "Bzzzzz..." and they're like "This was supposed to give me energy," it's like, "Sorry, mate, it's too intelligent. It knows what you bloody need, and it's taken you in that direction."   Jost: (56:34) It's so intelligent. And the Veda's say that ashwagandha can actually be taken by itself. My personal view on that, I find it works best if you have a combination of ashwagandha, astragalus, rehmannia and ren shen.   Mason: (56:53) Well generally with those really strong Jing tonics you need a Qi tonic there to keep everything moving.   Jost: (56:59) For me it works because then you've got the Spleen, Stomach, Lung combination in there too. And then you can put the mushrooms with it, and then we get onto the mushrooms, the reishi, the cordyceps, and obviously my favorite one, the lion's mane.   Mason: (57:13) Yeah, you love it, eh?   Jost: (57:14) Yeah, should be every day, everyone.   Mason: (57:17) That's good. We've already stocked up on lion's mane but I want you to try, I've got a... I don't know whether it'll be out by the time this podcast comes out but I've got a Qi blend coming out with codonopsis, white atractolydes, astragalus, poria, bit of gynostemma in there, turkey tail, and some jujube and I'd like to get your feedback on that.   Jost: (57:39) Yeah, it's really important, all this stuff is... The reason I'm saying all that is, once you start with herbs, you get a feel good very quickly, and if you feel good, you feel inspired to do things. So if you go to Tai Chi school, to a class as your initial step and move, you may get bored very quickly, because it's such a slow learning curve. And then you give up very quickly, so I'm always like, do the radical approach first. I've always liked doing things radical, like just whack it, cause some chaos, yeah.   Mason: (58:16) Or feel that it works.   Jost: (58:16) Yeah, go feel it.   Mason: (58:20) I'm like that big time as well. I used to say this all the time to people, whether it's with physical practice or herbs, or hydration even, little things like that. I call it activating the placebo. So with these herbs people are like "Do they work?" I'm like, "Well, let's think about it. Over at least five thousands years these herbs have been used, and there are tens of thousands of herbs used in China and out of those there's like 50 herbs which are considered tonic. That are, as you were saying, the messengers from heaven that are helping us to basically clear blockages. And they can just be taken every day, simple, not about symptoms, they work.   Jost: (58:56) Yeah. I'm glad that I have now turned 60, I'm 61 years of age, because I can actually use my body as an example that it works.   Mason: (59:07) Yeah for sure.   Jost: (59:08) And, when I was 40 and telling everyone herbs are good, I didn't have really much weighing in my work because I was still young and fit. But once you turn 50, 55, aging hits you. And that's when you know that those herbs work. Men at the age of 60, they know. They've got the aging. There's very few who really are very fit and healthy.   Mason: (59:34) There's even few within the community that are practicing herbs and Qigong, because it just goes and shows that you can't just do the herbs, you can't just do movement. Your whole life needs to be engaged in this practice, right.   Jost: (59:50) Yes. But a good way to get started with that is with herbs. But when people say "Do they work," that's what I'm trying to say. Look at people who are in their sixties and seventies who have been taking herbs for a long time, there are the examples. Don't go by what papers say. I remember that when I was at College and studied Chinese Medicine, over 30 years ago, I already realised I need to take herbs every day. Intuitive understanding for my practice. And then I thought "You can't do this every day, you've got to stop, this is...   Mason: (01:00:25) Too toneifying.   Jost: (01:00:27) Yeah, just like, bang. I just followed my own intuitive understanding.   Mason: (01:00:30) Oh yeah.   Jost: (01:00:31) Yeah, and so I'm at the level now where I can prove to people it works. So I say, "Look, this is my body at 61 years of age. I'm able to transform all kind of symptoms because of the herbs." So I tell everyone, if you want to get guidance by herbs, and you're not sure if they work, look at those who have been taking herbs for a long time. And you will see a different person. I can tell people who take herbs, they look different. They've got different skin. My skin is not someone who is the ordinary 60. And it's not because of genetics, it's got nothing to do with this, because my father died very early. So I don't have the genes for longevity.   Mason: (01:01:20) You don't have the Jing?   Jost: (01:01:21) That's what there... I actually got the opposite, I got weak Jing. I got a lot of injuries, I got like all kind of crippling injuries in my knees from when I was hard in sport. So, the fact that I constantly transform my symptoms, I actually an example, I can see the proof of this medicine. So if someone doubts it, then I say "Okay, compare a 60 year old or a 70 year old person who takes herbs regular with someone who doesn't. You've got entirely different skin, entirely different body, entirely different muscular structure, entirely different ability to transform symptoms." Because health is the ability to transform symptoms. Health is not the absence of symptoms, that's what people misunderstand. They always look at me and think, "Oh, you don't have the issues that I have." I said, "Fuck, man, I've got heaps of issues. But I transform them." And I do lots of herbs to transform them. Lots. Not like a little bit. My car is full with, there's herbs everywhere, you should look in my bag, there's herbs everywhere. I take herbs every three hours, I take always somethings, there's always something. I take bamboo, then I take a bit of hoelen then I take a major four. I'm always something, I'm always wheeling and dealing my body with maybe a little bit of this, maybe a little bit of that. Always a little bit. Consistency. Always just, maybe three flowers.   Mason: (01:02:46) Yeah, I was thinking about maybe... It's such a nice way to invite the plants and the mushrooms and the flowers and the barks into you-   Jost: (01:02:54) Yeah, they're a part of your life. They're given to us.   Mason: (01:02:54) Mm-hmm (affirmative)   Jost: (01:02:55) They're given to us in order to strengthen us. It's just like in Taoist philosophy the herbs are superior to food, it's the most important thing. Eventually the Taoist masters stopped food at all and only do herbs. I don't want to go that way because I love eating, but I don't use food to balance Yin and Yang, I use my herbs. Yeah, of course I eat essential foods. I always have a good breakfast out of grain. I always loved oats, I have good grains every day, I have good protein source every day and I enjoy and I eat really good cakes few times a week and I love good coffee. So I feast.   Mason: (01:03:40) You're living!   Jost: (01:03:42) I live it.   Mason: (01:03:43) "I feast," yeah.   Jost: (01:03:45) So I'm not into the juice diets, I'm not into fasting, I do intermittent fasting?   Mason: (01:03:49) You don't?   Jost: (01:03:49) Intermittent fasting, I do.   Mason: (01:03:54) You do, right.   Jost: (01:03:54) Yeah, I do intermittent fasting, I always have 12 hours between eating, every day.   Mason: (01:03:59) So you're doing breakfast and dinner?   Jost: (01:04:00) So I stop about, say I stop 8:00pm eating, I don't eat until 8:00am next day, or 9:00am.   Mason: (01:04:06) Oh okay, right.   Jost: (01:04:07) So, I usually have a minimum of 12 hours to 13 hours. Th

Meet Rylee Meek Riley is the founder and CEO of the Social Dynamic Selling System, which turns dinner seminar marketing into a science. After responding to a small add on crisis in 2009, Riley was introduced to a new concept of selling, one in which radically changed his life forever. Having just $673 in his bank account, but more importantly, a burning desire for more, Riley went on to produce over $80 million in sales over the past eight years. Now that he has perfected his model, through continual trial and error, he is sharing this learned wisdom and is on a mission to help other entrepreneurs and business owners achieve their revenue goals that they have to live the lifestyle they desire. Everything he teaches, is tried, tested, refined, and proven to create a predictable, sustainable and scalable selling system. Can you just explain what Social Dynamic Selling is? At the core of what it what it is, is it's gathering a group of people in person in which there is a social dynamic happening. No different than if you were out at a restaurant or a bar, there's a social dynamic happening. What we do is we create a setting or an environment in which we gather people together, that allows us to create an environment for the host of that event to have listeners eager to hear what they have to hear about a topic in which they are the expert in their industry, and then they have the ability to deliver a presentation. And then ultimately, try to obtain sales or make sales after the fact. Why does this work so well? I do think that in person, kind of touch we'll call it is something of the last art in the in the sales world. I think you're gathering people in a in a neutral environment in which they're not feeling pressured coming into a retail store or something along those lines. It's usually an environment in which they've been to before or they know well, and they're not threatened. It's not like they're in that high-pressure sales environment. In your bio, it states that you offer predictable, sustainable and scalable selling systems. What exactly do you mean by that? My background was always selling one on one. And it was this constant struggle of lead supply or lead flow. That feast and famine kind of lifestyle in the in the direct sales world. Where was your next lead was coming from, how you were obtaining that and then ultimately making presentations to close deals. And so this system really allows us to have a constant supply. For instance, if the business owner is in San Diego, California, and they're looking to expand into the Phoenix, Arizona market, but they don't have a brand or any recognition, any wherewithal, within that industry they could call upon someone like us. We then could host events and have a room full of qualified prospects eager to hear what they have to talk about whenever they're looking to expand into any particular market. What specific industries are you working in? Or have you worked in? We're kind of all over the board. Financial advisors, they were kind of the pioneers of this. I have to say that I'm not the creator of doing dinner seminar sales by any means. I do feel like I have perfected it taking it kind of out of solely in that financial industry. We've expanded into the home remodeling market, general contracting into the medical world cosmetic surgery, dentistry, regenerative medicine, into the travel world, into investment clubs. It sounds like it's very heavier focus is on the business to consumer side of things? Yeah, for the most part. Part of the reason is we do a ton of direct mail. I do hundreds of thousands of pieces every single week. And it's easiest to buy that data and send that direct mail piece to that end consumer. If I'm looking to go b2b, typically the business owner, and it's not always the case, but the business owner usually has that gatekeeper, we'll call it, that's actually collecting the mail for themselves and it doesn’t get into the proper hands. Can you share one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had? I ended up joining a group, a mastermind called board of advisors, and it led to an introduction of Kevin Harrington, who is one of the original sharks on Shark Tank. He ended up hiring us on to fill some events and do some networking events for him throughout the country. It was really cool to be able to make that connection and that's opened numerous doors for us not only in his network, but just others that have seen that we've done business with him as well. It's added thousands and thousands of dollars to our bottom line. It took a little bit of investment for me to get into the group, but from there it was very fruitful thereafter. How do you stay in front of her best nurture these relationships that you're creating? I travel a ton, but I love doing podcasts like this in general. There's obviously groups online that I'm a part of, that I can contribute to. And I think looking at looking at it, like can I contribute versus always looking at it, on what I can get out of something. Find your core platform or what it is that you want to focus on, and be very, very good at that, versus trying to be the end all be all for all things, I think is key, and being able to always provide the proper support for your community. What advice would you offer that business professional who's looking to grow their network We tend to always think about okay, what can I get out of this? Or what can I get from this person? But changing that mindset into what can you give? Because everybody is looking for that and if you can come at it with that approach, I think it's it is a breath of fresh air for people. Between digital networking and traditional networking. Which one do you find more value in? Obviously I do a ton of traditional fit, you know, face to face. As I mentioned, I think that really is a lost art which is the society we live in now everything is online, group meetups and webinars and things like that, which is it's a beautiful thing. I mean, we're very blessed to have this type of technology in this day and age. But I still, to that point, there is still what I feel people crave is that personal connection that being able to look somebody in the eye and shake hands and sit across the table from each other break bread. Any final word or advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network? If we're not growing, we're dying. And I truly, truly believe that. I’ve believed that since I was 15 years old, and that's why I constantly looked to whether I was reading personal development books or seeking out mentors. I was a sponge early on and I still am so if that means stepping out of your comfort zone. If you can step out of your comfort zone and do the uncomfortable until it becomes comfortable. You're gonna go big places in this world. How to connect with Riley Website: https://socialdynamicselling.com/

SHOW NOTES Why the .338? As listener @Alaskanexile1 said, "If I'm carrying my .338, I never have the 'wrong' rifle."  Inherently superior ballistic coefficient to the 8mm's, .35's, and .375's.  Excellent sectional density (a measure of penetrating ability) Heavy but controllable recoil A lot more terminal performance than the .30 calibers The significance of the .338's frontal diameter How does it compare to the .375's for big bears?  SPECIFIC .338 CARTRIDGES .338-06 .338 Win. Mag.  33 Nosler .340 Weatherby .338 Rem. Ultra Mag .338 Lapua .338-378 Weatherby Which one's right for you?  RESOURCES Winchester Rifles RIfle's Inc. (custom gunsmith)  

Spectro Cloud is Kubernetes management. But...that's really oversimplifying it, especially with the hundreds of offerings that have something to with Kubernetes management or KaaS. If I'm being more precise, Spectro Cloud is about managing an entire infrastructure stack that's built around Kubernetes. The post BiB093: Declare A K8s Stack With Spectro Cloud appeared first on Packet Pushers.

Spectro Cloud is Kubernetes management. But...that's really oversimplifying it, especially with the hundreds of offerings that have something to with Kubernetes management or KaaS. If I'm being more precise, Spectro Cloud is about managing an entire infrastructure stack that's built around Kubernetes. The post BiB093: Declare A K8s Stack With Spectro Cloud appeared first on Packet Pushers.

Ron Hicks was born in Columbus, Ohio but spent most of his childhood growing up in the modest and friendly neighborhood of Park Hill in Denver, Colorado. Ron always knew he would be an artist. Ron's family later relocated back to Ohio where during high school he was awarded several awards, and honors for various art shows and competitions.  His talent became obvious and noted throughout his high school career, and Ron was awarded a full scholarship to Columbus College of Art and Design in Columbus, OH. He later returned to Denver then subsequently earned a degree in Advertising Design. After college, Ron applied his degree, and natural talent to working for ad agencies, magazines, and as a freelance illustrator. He would soon realize his true passion. Ron's natural talent, and eye for beauty encouraged a shift in the direction of his style of painting. "I see things very abstractly, so I think of myself as a painter who sees shape, value, edges and texture. It could be the most mundane thing to any passer-by, but I find great beauty in that. I can't imagine not painting...not creating. If I'm not painting, creating, and sharing my gift then what's the point?"  - Ron Hicks Topics Discussed In This Episode: The recent LA Art Show with his paintings on view at the Gallery 1261 booth His early art inspiration as a child specifically from his mother Starting a Saturday art program at the Columbus College of Art and Design in high school Moving back to Denver to finish college, and a short-winded pursuit in advertising design before diving into his art career An early mentorship that allowed him to tap into the "soul" of his art, and thoughts on developing an intuitive toolbox Hicks' evolution of his art, and the abstract dialogue that comes through his paintings Creating honesty in his art but leaving room for his viewers' interpretation of his works Processing the traumas of thirty years of racial profiling www.artistdecoded.com

Perfusion imaging employs concepts that date back to the early 1830s, and it leverages hardware and software that emerged around the same time at multidetector helical CT scans. But it has only become popular in recent years for thrombectomy decision-making. If I'm being honest, I often never use it for this purpose. So what other purposes might it serve? And how does it work? This week, we review the fundamental concepts of perfusion CT, its utility in stroke care, and how it might prove useful for other neurologic conditions as well. ** IF YOU’RE TAKING YOUR NEUROLOGY BOARDS THIS SUMMER, CHECK OUT THE PENN NEUROLOGY BOARD REVIEW COURSE. FOR A DISCOUNTED RATE ON THE ONLINE OR STREAMING RESOURCES, USE PROMO CODE ‘WAVES2020’. ** Produced by James E. Siegler. Music courtesy of Julie Maxwell, John Bartmann, Kai Engel, and Pachyderm. Our theme song was composed by Jimothy Dalton. Sound effects by Mike Koenig and Daniel Simion. Some of the voices you heard throughout the program were those of Dr. Mathias Prokop, Radbound Medical Center, Netherlands; Terri Yeager, Comprehensive Stroke Program Coordinator at Cooper University Hospital; and a recording that was produced by GE Healthcare, which are freely available on YouTube. Unless otherwise mentioned in the podcast, no competing financial interests exist in the content of this episode. BrainWaves' podcasts and online content are intended for medical education only and should not be used for clinical decision making. Be sure to follow us on Twitter @brainwavesaudio for the latest updates to the podcast. REFERENCES Campbell BC, Christensen S, Levi CR, Desmond PM, Donnan GA, Davis SM and Parsons MW. Comparison of computed tomography perfusion and magnetic resonance imaging perfusion-diffusion mismatch in ischemic stroke. Stroke; a journal of cerebral circulation. 2012;43:2648-53. Boned S, Padroni M, Rubiera M, Tomasello A, Coscojuela P, Romero N, Muchada M, Rodriguez-Luna D, Flores A, Rodriguez N, Juega J, Pagola J, Alvarez-Sabin J, Molina CA and Ribo M. Admission CT perfusion may overestimate initial infarct core: the ghost infarct core concept. J Neurointerv Surg. 2017;9:66-69. Martins N, Aires A, Mendez B, Boned S, Rubiera M, Tomasello A, Coscojuela P, Hernandez D, Muchada M, Rodriguez-Luna D, Rodriguez N, Juega JM, Pagola J, Molina CA and Ribo M. Ghost Infarct Core and Admission Computed Tomography Perfusion: Redefining the Role of Neuroimaging in Acute Ischemic Stroke. Interv Neurol. 2018;7:513-521. Campbell BCV, Ma H, Ringleb PA, Parsons MW, Churilov L, Bendszus M, Levi CR, Hsu C, Kleinig TJ, Fatar M, Leys D, Molina C, Wijeratne T, Curtze S, Dewey HM, Barber PA, Butcher KS, De Silva DA, Bladin CF, Yassi N, Pfaff JAR, Sharma G, Bivard A, Desmond PM, Schwab S, Schellinger PD, Yan B, Mitchell PJ, Serena J, Toni D, Thijs V, Hacke W, Davis SM, Donnan GA, Extend E and Investigators E. Extending thrombolysis to 4.5-9 h and wake-up stroke using perfusion imaging: a systematic review and meta-analysis of individual patient data. Lancet. 2019;394:139-147. Siegler JE, Messe SR, Sucharew H, Kasner SE, Mehta T, Arora N, Starosciak AK, De Los Rios La Rosa F, Barnhill NR, Mistry AM, Patel K, Assad S, Tarboosh A, Dakay K, Wagner J, Bennett A, Jagadeesan B, Streib C, Weber SA, Chitale R, Volpi JJ, Mayer SA, Yaghi S, Jayaraman MV, Khatri P and Mistry EA. Noncontrast CT versus Perfusion-Based Core Estimation in Large Vessel Occlusion: The Blood Pressure after Endovascular Stroke Therapy Study. J Neuroimaging. 2019. Epub ahead of print. Barber PA, Demchuk AM, Zhang J and Buchan AM. Validity and reliability of a quantitative computed tomography score in predicting outcome of hyperacute stroke before thrombolytic therapy. ASPECTS Study Group. Alberta Stroke Programme Early CT Score. Lancet. 2000;355:1670-4. Wintermark M, Reichhart M, Thiran JP, Maeder P, Chalaron M, Schnyder P, Bogousslavsky J and Meuli R. Prognostic accuracy of cerebral blood flow measurement by perfusion computed tomography, at the time of emergency room admission, in acute stroke patients. Annals of neurology. 2002;51:417-32. Parsons MW, Pepper EM, Chan V, Siddique S, Rajaratnam S, Bateman GA and Levi CR. Perfusion computed tomography: prediction of final infarct extent and stroke outcome. Annals of neurology. 2005;58:672-9. Campbell BC, Weir L, Desmond PM, Tu HT, Hand PJ, Yan B, Donnan GA, Parsons MW and Davis SM. CT perfusion improves diagnostic accuracy and confidence in acute ischaemic stroke. Journal of neurology, neurosurgery, and psychiatry. 2013;84:613-8. Mangla R, Ekhom S, Jahromi BS, Almast J, Mangla M and Westesson PL. CT perfusion in acute stroke: know the mimics, potential pitfalls, artifacts, and technical errors. Emerg Radiol. 2014;21:49-65. Albers GW, Marks MP, Kemp S, Christensen S, Tsai JP, Ortega-Gutierrez S, McTaggart RA, Torbey MT, Kim-Tenser M, Leslie-Mazwi T, Sarraj A, Kasner SE, Ansari SA, Yeatts SD, Hamilton S, Mlynash M, Heit JJ, Zaharchuk G, Kim S, Carrozzella J, Palesch YY, Demchuk AM, Bammer R, Lavori PW, Broderick JP, Lansberg MG and Investigators D. Thrombectomy for Stroke at 6 to 16 Hours with Selection by Perfusion Imaging. The New England journal of medicine. 2018;378:708-718. Van Cauwenberge MGA, Dekeyzer S, Nikoubashman O, Dafotakis M and Wiesmann M. Can perfusion CT unmask postictal stroke mimics? A case-control study of 133 patients. Neurology. 2018;91:e1918-e1927. Siegler JE, Olsen A, Pulst-Korenberg J, Cristancho D, Rosenberg J, Raab L, Cucchiara B and Messe SR. Multicenter Volumetric Assessment of Artifactual Hypoperfusion Patterns using Automated CT Perfusion Imaging. J Neuroimaging. 2019;29:573-579.

James: Hi audience and listeners This is James Kandasamy from "Achieve Wealth Through Value Add Real Estate Investing Podcast". Today we have Jim Maffuccio, who is co-founder and CIO of Aspen funds. Jim specializes in notes buying, which is a new topic for me. And I think for a lot of you, who has been following us on the commercial real estate aspect of the real estate business. Hey, Jim, welcome to the show. Jim: Hi, James, great to be here with you.  James: Good to have you here too. So, tell me about, let me make sure I understand notes, right. So, notes are basically that on real estate, right? It's not really the equity side of it, but the bad side of it, right. So, take it from there, tell us, tell our audience a little bit more about how does notes. like from people like you play a function in a real estate business?  Jim: Yeah, well, you know, almost all real estate transactions, and holdings involve debt. You know, a small percentage of properties are owned free and clear without debt, but most properties do have debt. Our focus, our business focus is on residential debt. So this would be, quite simply just the mortgage that people have on their homes, somebody owns that mortgage, somebody has that receivable. Those payments are being made to somebody, they're usually paid through a loan servicer. And the investor behind that servicer who actually owns the paper most people never know the names of but we are one of those entities that actually own the note. So, you know, there's two parties, well, basically two basic parties to a loan, there's the lender and there's the borrower or simply the lender, and we are not loan originators, we did not originate this paper, but we actually purchase, we purchased the banks position, if you will, the lenders position and you know, usually we have two different aspects to our business model. One is we buy non-performing loans. So, this is where a homeowner stops making payments on their mortgage. And the institution who owns that loan and the servicer who services that loan, throw their hands up and say, we don't know what to do it this. It's not our business model. We don't want to foreclose and take properties necessarily. So, this is real general, obviously, they do foreclose. So, we come behind and we purchase this loan, we purchased the put it so. So, if the loan balance is $100,000, let's say it's a first lien, we can purchase that loan for maybe $50,000, but the borrower still owes 100. So, now we go to work trying to get that borrower to resume making payments or we modify the loan to make an affordable payment for the borrower. And if the borrower can't or won't work with us, then we do exercise our rights against the collateral and we foreclose and that gives us the right to take the property, because the borrower hasn't met their obligation, that's really simple terms. So yeah, I'll just let you lead me with questions. James: I have a lot of questions based on how-- Jim: I bet.  James: So, let me understand. So, because I think a lot of people do not know this side of the business, it's very critical that I make sure everybody understand. So, if I buy a rental property, there's a lot of hard money lenders. And then I mean, this has nothing to do with hard money lenders, but I think this is the long term loan that Fannie and Freddie give to a servicer, right? And then, I mean you don't buy that kind of loans, I guess right? So, you don't get any more, I think you look for a bank, because, the bank right now, I think they want to clear their book because some of the loan is not really performing, they do not want to have in their books. Now, if they fit, they call Aspen funds and let them buy this right? And they sell it to you at deep discount, I guess.  Jim: That's right, we don't buy real hard money loans in general, we have done some of that, we've done some fix and flip lending on our income side of our business because we also have passive investment funds where we purchase re performing loans, where these are loans now that we're in trouble at one point in time in either ourselves or somebody else has done a workout with the borrower. Now the borrower is back on track making some sort of payments on that loan. And we actually have income funds where we buy those income streams and then pass the coupon payment off to our investors and we make a management fee for managing that work. We're consistently growing that portfolio, tomorrow it's the less active, it's the more passive model in our business but back on the other side, yeah, we're buying non-performing loans and we are buying mostly institution originated paper. So, as you said, James, it would be, you know, Wells Fargo, Citibank, Nation star, these would be the names of servicers, but it's this kind of paper off when our particular specialty and this is maybe going a little bit deeper into this than you care to, but we actually have been specialized in buying second mortgages or junior liens. So, this would be where somebody maybe bought a house and they took out a first maybe they bought a $200,000 house and took out a first for 80% of that 160,000 and then later they refight or they took out a second, or they got a purchase money home equity line, and maybe that balance is $40,000 on that loan. And those loans when they stop performing the institutions, they charge those off after like 90 days, they're not treated the same as a 30-year mortgage would be by the institution. So, it creates a tremendous opportunity for us because we purchase those on a you know, literally anywhere from two percent of what's owed to 60% of what's owed, depending on how much equity there is above the senior mortgage. And depending on whether the senior mortgage is still performing, the vast majority of the loans, the second mortgages we buy, will be behind a first mortgage that is still performing. So, the homeowner is making their payments on the big loan, the senior loan, but they stopped making payments on the second loan. So, we pick these up at a deep discount, and then we go to work with the borrowers and try to get them into an affordable pay plan, and back to having some equity in their property. We've been very successful at keeping people in their homes and creating an affordable payment structure and still making a good profit for investors doing that.  James: Got it. So, that's really good on the junior, on the second loan, right? But I want to come back to the first loan or the fundamental concepts first, right. So, the economy is doing very well, right. If someone is not servicing their loan, right now, right, why not the bank forecloses on it and sell off the property, rather than selling it to you at a deep discount?  Jim: Yeah. And so, as far as the first liens go, as you know, right now, foreclosure rates are very low historically. I mean, we went through the end of the 2008 mortgage crisis, if you want to pin a date to it, the subsequent three to four years, there was a glut of these non performing mortgages, the institutions basically had to do whatever they could do to get these assets off of their books. By the time they took properties all the way through to foreclosure, the regulators are breathing down their back, their balance sheets look terrible. So, they started moving upstream and selling the non-performing loans simply to get them off their books. And of course, they got all the bailout funds and all of that that we know about and have read about. So, there was a period of time where there was a large inventory of these non performing senior liens, now things have settled down from that. So there is still a good amount of those that trade in the secondary market. There has always been I mean; this business model has been going on forever because I think I heard a number the other day that historically 4% of all residential mortgages are in default at all times. And that number might have spiked up to seven or 8% during the thick of the mortgage crisis. But I mean, that means that you know, 92 to 93% of all mortgages, were still being paid by the borrower. So, you know, a doubling of the defaults is, it was a big number and it created an opportunity for a lot of people to jump into the space and like ourselves, only we just decided to jump into the junior liens because there was less people, you know, interested in that. It sounded risky, it sounded like why would you want to do that, until we started looking at what the numbers look like and the leverage that we get. So, there's not as many senior liens available now, the pricing has gotten to where it's pretty competitive, you have to really know what you're doing to buy senior liens and make it work for you because, you have to beat the clock so to speak, because the margins are a little bit stronger.  James: Okay, so, to recap, there's not much, the normal loan is available nowadays, because economy's doing well, the percentage of it is too low and the banks are not really, I mean, they have many ways to get rid of the load rather than just selling it to you, but you have been focusing on the second lien where people sometimes take double loan, I guess, right on top of one loan, they take another loan, and-- Jim: That's right.  James: And, that's what you call a junior loan?  Jim: Junior lien, a second mortgage, a home equity line, there's all kinds of names, but, yeah. James: Where do they sell these? I mean, how do you know about it?  Jim: Well, you know, really, I started going to conferences within this industry and you know, the mortgage industry, there's always been large players in it, but it's kind of a niche for small entrepreneurial investors like ourselves. We're not a pretty entrepreneurial firm, I've been in real estate related in the industry for self employed full time for 33 years now. So, I just go to a lot of conferences, I like to learn, so, I like to learn real time. So, I'd listen to podcasts, watch webinars and go to conferences. And I heard a gentleman talking about the junior liens at a conference, and he was in a little breakout room and there was only about a dozen people in there, because everybody else was in the main hall listening to how to buy senior liens, how to buy the first you know, and I heard him talking about secondly, and immediately I got it, the light came on for me and I said this is where I want to enter the space, because I understood it and I understood the leverage and I understood that the price points and so, I jumped into this niche and where we buy them is from other people that are in our world, I mean that have relationships with banks. We've bought some stuff direct from banks, we buy most of our paper through read traders, larger hedge funds, that don't know what to do with the seconds, they don't want them necessarily. So, truly in this space, one man's trash is another man's treasure, that adage holds true. We've just developed a core competency and a skill set to be able to buy, to know what to pay for these second liens and know how to do these workouts with borrowers. And it's been very lucrative for us, and it's been very helpful to the homeowners as well.  James: Got it. So okay, so interesting. So second lien the problem is they can't really foreclose on the deal, right, because now they are not the first in line, right.  Jim: Yeah, and actually that's misunderstanding right there, is exactly that part of what created the opportunity for us, because for some reason people are under the impression that you cannot foreclose from second position. And of course, you can, you know, any lender, any real estate lender, the collateral, the security for your loan, what's motivating you to make the loan is not only the borrower's ability to pay, but in the likely in the event that the borrower cannot pay, you have to be able to exercise your rights against the collateral. And so of course, a junior lien, it's a lien, it's a lien on the property and we have all of the rights of any other lien holder, of a first lien holder. It's a little bit different in that, if I foreclose from second position, typically there's some exceptions to this. But typically, if nobody comes in bids at the courthouse steps for my second lien position, I end up with the property, I get title to the property, but the first lien is still in place. So in a sense, I've just bought the property subject to the first. James: Got it. Jim: You, follow me. So, the first doesn't go away if I foreclose. Now, in some states, the first will then, you know, they'll trigger their acceleration clause and say you now owe us, you have to pay off the first as well. But in most cases, if we foreclose from second, we end up owning the property with the first mortgage still in place. Now, I want to say this upfront, our goal, our business model is not to foreclose on properties, we've actually had to do that less than 2% of the time over thousands of transactions. And there's even been cases where we've foreclosed and we've turned around, and we've unwind the foreclosure and recast a new agreement with the borrower to keep them in the property. So it's not our game, but we absolutely have the right to foreclose from second lien position.  James: So on the second lien, you’re basically the game that you get when you take over the property, you basically wipe out the equity from the original owner of the lien, of the of the loan, I guess, right and then you get 20, 30% off of the property, right?  Jim: Well, it's kind of I mean, whoever, let's say whoever held the paper before us, whoever, let's say it's a just for simple numbers, let's say it's $100,000 loan, and if we buy that loan for, you know, $25,000 we still own an IOU from the borrower for $100,000. The borrower still owes us $100,000, the bank or the originator or whoever we bought that loan from, they're out of the picture. They're gone. they assign their rights to us. They do an assignment of mortgage to us, they endorsed the note, promissory note over to us and now we are the new lender per se. Okay, so the borrower's equity is what is at stake and so, if the borrower has equity above our loan or above what we're willing to settle the loan for, then we have, you know, then we have a good position to go to the borrower and say, hey, let's work something out here, we really don't want your property. And they sometimes will say, yeah, but I don't have any equity in my property. Now, we really would like to stay, but we can't afford it. Well, what they don't know until we get talking to them is, look, we have a whole lot of room to help you to work with you. It's $100,000 loan, but if we can recast that loan, this is just an example, if we can modify that loan and get them on a payment program. And over time, say we forgive some of the principal that they owe to where maybe now they only owe $70,000. Well, that 30,000 goes right back into their equity or towards their equity in the property. Now they're incentivized to make the payments on the second, so we look at their finances. We have a pretty sophisticated underwriting team and tools that we use and we have a lot of people that have banking and loan origination experience. So, we're underwriting these people, we're not throwing usurious high interest rate loans out, our goal is for them to be able to stick, you know, they get back on track and they don't have any more speed bumps, and they can pay their mortgage at a reduced rate. And so, we might take that loan that we, you know, if the payable is $100,000, we paid 25 for it, we might get them performing, and now we've created a loan that's to us, it's worth, we could turn around and sell that loan to another investor that wants to cash flow for 50 or $60,000. So- James: Got it.  Jim: So, we can double and triple our money by creating a performing asset out of the non-performing asset that we have. James: So, your value add in this case is you're basically buying it at a deep discount, right let's say 100,000 loan, you're buying at 25,000, now you're going back to the house owner and telling you own hundred thousand, we want to get you back on track, we're going to forgive you for 30,000. Now you own 70,000, right and get them to start paying back the mortgage. And you probably will sell that 70,000 mortgage to another lender, right? Who might be, 50,000, so you basically level 25,000 to 50,000, I guess.  Jim: Yeah, so we have various, we have like seven different exit strategies for these non-performing loans that we buy. And I would say 60 plus percent of the time, we end up with either a fast settlement from the borrowers at a discount, or we modify the terms of their loan and we create paper that's now worth, our average over, you know, eight years now doing this, and thousands of loans. we're averaging and this is including the good, the bad and the ugly, the ones that become worthless for various reasons, but we're averaging in about mid twos, like two and a half times what we pay for the loan. So, if we buy a million dollars’ worth of loans, we're going to generate two and a half million dollars in revenue, it's a pretty nice multiplier. Now there's a lot of work, there's a lot of regulatory issues we have to deal with there, and there's a lot of debt forgiveness that happens in that process. But again, you hit it James, because we're buying this paper at such a deep discount, we have a lot of tools where we can make it work for both parties, both our investors and our borrowers. And that's what makes us feel good at the end of the day, we're serving, we're really serving two different groups of people.  James: So, what's the reason the origin of the first lien, the original second lien lender did not give that discount to the homeowner? Jim: Yeah, you know, in some cases, they actually do. It's pretty rare, but at the time when a lot of these loans were going into default, these institutions they just had trouble on their hands in every front, and again, they're their bookkeeping, if you will, their accounting these Junior liens is different than on a typical senior lien. So, they have to charge this paper off. So, they take the hit on their books, and it really becomes a very low priority for them to do anything with these loans at that point in time, but I think the biggest, the main answer for you there is they just had so much trouble on their hands, it was a low priority.  James: Got it. Yeah, that makes perfect sense, I mean, this bank makes billions of dollars, sometimes, you know, second lien is just a small department in their whole balance sheet, right? They don't want to deal with it okay, we lose 75%. Jim: It's actually treated differently from a compliance standpoint.  James: Okay, got it. Jim: It's not it's not the same as a 30-year mortgage.  James: Okay, so maybe they have more flexibility in terms of compliance to get rid of it and just get rid of it. Jim: Yeah. James: And companies like you take advantage of that inefficiency of the bank. And you know, basically make a business out of it, which is really interesting. I mean, this is complicated stuff, I'm sure it's not simple. Jim: No, it's not, there's a lot of trips and traps, and there's a lot of regulations and we're very compliance minded. We're licensed pretty much in every state now to do what we do. We've, you know, pursued licensing from the beginning because it's the right way to do it. And we're very consumer minded, and we try to keep up with all the credit laws and regulations because it's, you know, it's important to do so.  James: So, let's say someone want to do like what you're doing right now. What kind of license and experience do they need to get started?  Jim: Wow, well, gosh. James: I'm not trying to create a competition for you, but-- Jim: No, I'm not worried, I'm not worried about that. James: The banks as billions of dollars to dispose.  Jim: Yeah, I would say that the best way for a person to get started, honestly, is to go to start attending conferences, there's some education that you can find online. Our company is not, we're not an education company, we're actually doing this business. I mean, if people want to reach out through our website, we can certainly point people to some resources. As far as licensing goes, everybody's got to decide their own, where they're going to stick the fork into that one, because it really depends, every state is different. It's there's, some similarities, obviously, but, there's two or three different levels of licensing and then you've got 50 states. So, we, you know, we spent a lot of money pursuing licenses in the states that we thought we would end up buying the most loans in. But in our business, the pickier you are as far as what states you buy loans, and the more you're going to pay the less product you're going to find. And you're not, it's not going to be a super scalable operation, we are a growing company right now and we're scaling up our operations. We just decided we'll buy in every state, and what does it get the licensing needed to be able to do business. So, it's a pretty sophisticated operation, it's not to say a small investor can't get involved in it. But most people that invest in this space that we encounter are actually people that are interested in investing in our funds. And we you know, we have our funds are really for only for accredited investors. And, you know, that's a whole other topic, but it's a 100% passive investment for our investors that invest in our funds, invest in our business, our company operates the business models, and they just basically are passive investors, but for somebody to get in and become a note buyer or note seller. The best way to do that, honestly, is to start going to the industry conferences, listening to the presentations, talking to the people out in the sponsor hall and meeting people, that's how I started this business. Some of the people that work for us I met at some of the very first conferences I ever attended. And the people we buy notes from and the people we sell notes to, almost 100% have come through relationships built by getting out there and attending conferences and networking with people.  James: Yeah, it seems to be very niche because, you know, there's no gurus teaching this right. I mean, otherwise, everybody's-- Jim: Super niche, there are a couple gurus teaching it. And again, I mean, offline, I can be glad to help some people and point them in directions, some people that I trust, and I know in the industry that actually do training, so it is available. Like anything, there's some fluff out there, but I find most people that are in the notes world are actually pretty down to earth good people. They're not trying to, you know, it's a small enough space that if people do something really stupid, the word gets around and you know, which it should, it should, the word should get around.  James: Yeah, so I think, I don't know. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. So, compared to like, buying Real Estate, versus buying notes, notes are a very transactional business, it involves a lot of coordination, right? So, because you think you're going to move like in a system by system, I have to do this first, I have to do this first, and there's a lot of complication in terms of compliance and all that. So, somebody who enjoys that kind of work. Now I'm going buying a deal and rehabbing it and seeing it looks pretty right now, or drive around that real estate and show everybody this is the property that I have.  Jim: Yeah. James: Your job is really, you know, this is not being seen anywhere, but it's all about transaction basis. And that's how you make the money.  Jim: Yeah, and the upside of it is, you know, you can manage a lot of real estate value. These are the mortgages, you know, across the country, it's very scalable because you know, we don't get involved in the tenant’s toilets and trash, unless we have to foreclose which is very rare. And there's an infrastructure out there for our business, there's servicers, there's vendors, there's attorneys in every state that we use. There's document vendors that that check all of the collateral documents, the notes, the mortgages, all the assignments for us. So you can scale and you know, the one thing though, that real estate has that the note industry doesn't, is if you buy real estate, you might have more work on your hands, you might to get your hands a little bit dirty, but you actually own an asset that's not going to go away in 30 years. So, the paper business is really clean, and we love getting monthly checks or ach deposits into our account from thousands of borrowers, it’s a wonderful thing, we don't have to go check on the properties etc. But at the end of the day, we have to keep buying these notes and creating new cash flows. Because if you own a, you know, 100-unit apartment building, that asset is going to be sitting there 30 years from now. James: Like forever.  Jim: Yeah. So, I really think just in general terms, a good strategy for an individual investor is to do both, have a hand in both. But we do invest in real estate, you know, personally, and we'll probably eventually start some funds for purchasing key types of real estate. But we started our company in 2012, based on doing mortgages, and it's been so lucrative for us, and we've built a great team and some great models and systems. And right now it's like 100% focus on scaling this business because it's just going so well for us.  James: Yeah. And I think in the note business, I mean, you make the money in the crime section, but is there any tax benefit to it, I mean, that anybody can realize like for you also, for passive investors who invest in the funds like what you guys offer?  Jim: Yeah, the tax aspects of it, I'll just be honest, it's not really my end of the business. From what people within my company say, yeah, we have some pretty advantageous tax treatment, but that's, again, there's a lot of gray area in this business and that's something that, I mean I can't say, it's something like the opportunity zones or it's you know, you have depreciation like you do with rental real estate, there's nothing that stands out to me that's worth going on the air and saying that oh, tremendous tax advantages because of x, y and z. That's out of my skill set and I wouldn't want to say something that would get somebody in trouble down the road.  James: Okay, that makes sense. So, tell us about how passive investors can get involved into your notes, is it like you have a big fund where you go and buy you know, notes you know, in a bulk but they invest into this fund and they get certain percentage and how does that work?  Jim: Right. So, I'll just give you in a nutshell because we have two different business models and we build funds around these models. But, where we started and where the largest frankly is in our workout funds, are our non-performing loan funds where we buy, we go out and buy, you know, pools and pools of these non performing mortgages. And then we turn we board them all with a national servicer, first of all, and then we bore them with our workout team, that gets busy doing our exit strategies with the borrowers. What we do is we raise, again, for accredited investors, we raise serial closed end funds. So, we'll go out and we'll raise say $10 million, and over the course of maybe one to six months, and then as soon as we start as that capital starts coming in, we're spending it, we're always buying loans. We're always working out loans, and we're always exiting loans, but we'll put together like say fund number one, and we're actually working on funds number four and five right now. So, the investment capital comes in, we're bidding and buying loans, and we're working out those loans and then as those loans are exited, we're directing the revenues back to our investors, and until they get their capital back and then we have a profit split that we do with them. So, that's our more speculative growth oriented strategy. It's not a liquid strategy. So, person invests half a million dollars, we tell them, you know, don't count on seeing any of your money, at least for the first 18 months, because it takes a while to get these things worked out and get, we'll see some early exits, you know, six months, 12 months, but by the time we hit three years, most everything has been wound down, we've executed our exit strategies, the investors have gotten their money back, plus their profit. And, you know, we target and we've performed this, you know, anywhere from the high teens to the low 20s, mid 20s. In terms of a real IRR, that's a time loaded rate of return. So, it's a very lucrative end of the business for people that understand it. And for people that don't need, you know, the cash flow or they don't mind a three-year lockup on their money, or other side of our businesses, the Income Fund, and this is where we're buying loans that are already performing. So, we're buying cash flows, we have a sophisticated underwriting model. So, an investor puts their money into our fund, and we basically start paying, and we pay a preferred return of eight and a half percent. And, you know, this is just mailbox money. This is for somebody that wants to, you know, wants cash flow on a regular basis. And, you know, so our investors actually own, our funds actually own the loans. We do not own them, we only get paid if we're successful, and we get paid for managing the fund. So, there's no you know, there's no fluff in the middle, and it's been great. We're building both sides of the business and having really good success right now.  James: Got it. How does your business model changes if there's a recession?  Jim: Yeah, I love this question. I feel like we're so well positioned for this, because I'll just compare it to say, I'm going to just focus right now on the income side of our business, because that would be where you would think that recession would be the most immediately effective. On the non performing side, we're already buying these loans at such deep discount. So, we have all kinds of, we can be patient with those, there's all kinds of ways we can exit those successfully. But on the income side, first of all, we price into our model, a pretty substantial default rate, like 10% of our loans, we price them as if 10% of them are going to go into default. We have never seen anywhere near that in our track record, but you know, we have that built into our pricing. One thing that will tell you--  James: What about in 2008?  Jim: What was that? James: What about in 2008? Jim: So Well, we only started the business in 2012. So-- James: Okay, got it. Yeah.  Jim: So what if another big event like that happens? So, our Income Fund, our loans are spread across the country geographically. Our typical loan is a you know, $120,000, $150,000, home in the Midwest, these are workforce houses, these are bread and butter houses, the only way these loans are going to go into default, is if there's a sustained loss of income by these borrowers, these aren't speculated bubble markets. We do have some loans on the west coast and on the East Coast, we're covered with a pretty substantial amount of equity because of when we bought most of those loans. Frankly, we are balancing our portfolio, we're looking at our portfolio all the time and divesting ourselves and what we perceive as a higher risk markets, but you got to keep, this is a really important point I'm about to make here. You got to keep this in mind, If I'm lending money to a fix and flipper. And they, you know, they see that they're, it's taking them longer to finish the work. The expenses of the of the rehab are increasing, and the resale values are coming down. At some point in time they look at that project and go, I can't make any money on this deal anymore. If you're lucky as the lender, they hand you back to keys and you got to have finished rehab project in a remote location, that, you got to go take care of okay. You're not a passive investor in that scenario. In our situation, again, your investment is spread across hundreds and hundreds of bread and butter homes where people with real jobs and real kids that go to the real school down the street, they live in these homes. They're not looking at the metrics, they're not looking at Zillow every morning and saying, hey, look at this honey, we don't have near as much equity in our property, we should hand the keys back to our lender. This is a this is home sweet home. So, even if they end up in a negative equity situation, there's what we like to call in our business, emotional equity. You know, people don't want to get foreclosed on, they don't want to file bankruptcy, you know, they want to keep paying their mortgage, it's their home and they're on their way to owning it free and clear at some point on a typical 30-year mortgage. So, they're not looking at life the same way as a rehabber or a business to business lending relationship would look at life. So to me, this is our biggest, I don't think anything on the planet is recession proof. But I think we're recession resistant, I think we might see in a serious setback, if there's a big unemployment reversal, that would be probably the biggest thing that would hurt us, but even there, because most of our properties, if we had to foreclose, and take the property back, we could actually rent those properties out for more than what the mortgage payments are now. So, we're pretty capital protective. And I think our cash flow is pretty well protected as well. So, I love our models for that reason, exactly.  James: Yeah. So that's, very interesting. I mean, I'm looking at it right now. Yeah, it makes sense. Right. But if something like 2008 happen, which I don't think so, but there will be a lot more mortgage default, right? I mean, yeah, you It could be a problem for your current portfolio. But the systems and process that you already have might be a really good opportunity for you to you know, to buy-- Jim: Yeah, actually, I hate to say it because it sounds like the undertaker saying, hey business was great, this year, a bunch of people died, you know?  James: Yeah, I know. Jim: It's not something that you want to, I'm not looking forward to people having trouble or the economy having trouble. But the fact of the matter is, if we go into another 2008 type event or anything even close to it, it's going to be back up the truck for us, because like you said, we have the systems, the processes, the teams in place, and the expertise and so it would be business wise, it would be a very big time for us. But as far as our existing mortgage portfolios, I just don't think we're going to get hurt if there's a, even if there's a pretty significant turnaround, because again, it's tied to the jobs more than anything, our business is tied to jobs, not so much what's the appreciation rate or depreciation rate of real estate, that's what we love about our models, they are very uncorrelated to both the real estate market and we're super uncorrelated to Wall Street. I mean, we saw what happened just a couple days ago with stocks and bonds. And I might say, well what happened to your portfolio? What would happen to your investment and Aspen? Well, absolutely nothing, people's pay their mortgages on the day that they were due, and we got more that will be paid this week and more the next week, and life goes on. And it's just we're really not in that world. And that's what we love, and that's why we see more and more, even institutional investors moving into alternative investments. And you know, like your own James and like ours, you know, there's just, there's a real pent up demand for uncorrelated places for people to put their money. So, this is a really good time for people like us.  James: Yeah, absolutely. Hey, Jim, why don't you tell our audience and listeners on how, you know, how to get hold of you and your company?  Jim: Yeah, sure. So, the best way would be, I think you're going to have in your show notes, a link, a private link for your listeners to our website, but I'll go ahead and just give you, it's just go to our website and then request information, but it's, aspenfunds.us. So, Aspen funds is one word, "aspenfunds.us." And just search around there, and there'll be a place where you can request some information or somebody to reach out to you. And if you're wanting to get involved in buying and selling notes, we can direct you to some great resources. And if you're interested in our funds, again, you have to be an accredited investor, and we can walk you through that process as well.  James: Got it. Well, thanks for coming into the show, I really learned a lot. I mean, I do not know much about this note business, but I think I really learned a lot in it. It's very interesting.  Jim: All right, very good. Happy to be here. James: Thank you.

Are there obstacles that are holding you back from pursuing your purpose or the calling or dream you have sensed God has placed on your heart? The good news is that these obstacles do not have to stop you.   As Christian women, it’s easy for obstacles to get in the way of the purpose or calling God has for our lives. These obstacles can seem very REAL, but oftentimes they are mostly fake… in other words, they are often the excuses or lies we tell ourselves that keep us from moving forward.    In this episode, I’m going to share 5 obstacles that might keep you from pursuing your purpose. Along with each obstacle, I’m going to share what I believe is true and how the obstacle does not have to prevent you from stepping forward.   For the full show notes for this episode, visit estherlittlefield.com/episode93.   Get on the waitlist for the Confident Leader Catalyst: http://confidentleadercatalyst.com   Key Points Discussed: Obstacle #1: The timing isn’t right to step into this purpose [6:54] Obstacle #2: I don't have enough support from family/friends [9:28] Obstacle #3: I don't have the funds to pursue my dreams [14:13] Obstacle #4: If I'm confident or pursue my dreams, it might intimidate others [19:12] Obstacle #5: It's selfish to pursue a dream or calling - shouldn't I just be content where I am? [23:06] How do You Know What God is Calling You to Do? [28:37] How to Step Out of Your Comfort Zone and Into Your Calling [31:42]   Get on the waitlist for the Confident Leader Catalyst: http://confidentleadercatalyst.com Episode Mentioned: Purpose Series (Episodes 9-13) Episode 83 & Episode 84 with Tembi Secrist Episode 36 Episode 88 with Kelsy Schmidt Episode 41 with Christa Hutchins Episode 60 with Kadi Cole Blog Post about staying Connect with Esther and Holly: Esther’s Website Holly’s Website Instagram Facebook Group Facebook Page This episode was originally published on estherlittlefield.com/episode93.

When your dog ‘misbehaves,’ what’s your first emotional response? Do you feel annoyed, frustrated, or angry? It’s okay to feel like this. Actually, it’s pretty normal to feel frustrated when things turn belly side up. But what you might not realize is that your emotional response and reaction could be making the entire situation much worse. In this episode of Enlightened By Dogs, Kathy talks about how you can learn to take responsibility in difficult situations so that you can be more prepared when disaster strikes in the future. Kathy also shares a personal story about a time when she struggled to accept responsibility, followed by the empowerment she felt when she learned that taking responsibility doesn’t show weakness, it shows strength. In this episode: The problem with reacting out of frustration or anger when the un-predicted happens How to overcome our own bad habits and stop blaming others (or our dogs) when things go wrong Why you should stop putting your dog in uncomfortable situations Kathy shares a personal story that reveals the importance of learning to take responsibility Quotes: “Your dog's behaviour is just communication.” “I'm a big proponent of changing things quickly and not letting bad habits develop.” “Stop putting your dog into that situation… do something else.” “Your dog is just letting you know how they feel.” “If I'm responsible, that means I have the ability to make a new choice to do something different.” Love this and want more? Subscribe to the Enlightened By Dogs podcast in your favorite app! Don’t forget to leave us a rating and review – it would make Kathy and all of her four-legged friends very happy! Kathy is offering a big “thank you” for rating and reviewing the show on Apple Podcasts! Subscribe on Apple Podcasts   Want More of Kathy? Brilliant Partners Academy Enlightened by Dogs Website Facebook Community Read the blog post on this topic.

In this episode, we talk about some lessons learned while tracking my weight every day. Try Hydrant: http://drinkhydrant.com Code: tinyleaps Why I Started Almost hit 210 Decided I wanted to take control Knew I needed to learn about my body Decided to weigh myself daily for the data Lessons Learned (These are just for me) My body doesn't process carbs well Around 80g of carbs per day usually = weight loss High protein diets leave me feeling energized and focused 100g of carbs per day usually = sustaining If I'm in a "losing pattern" I can cheat without killing momentum (it slows but progress is still made) There are a lot of landmines Always read labels Most things are fine to eat as long as you can "afford it" Having an understanding of your macro ratios, quality of food, and what works for your body is more important than counting calorie --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Now that everything has changed in the world and in many of our industries, how do we know what we should be working on right now when maybe our stores are closed or were unable to go do photo shoots or whatever it is that you are doing in whatever business you're in. with all of the changes that have happened in the world. [00:00:17] How do we know how to keep our businesses alive and move forward? How can we decide what's most important for us to be working on during this liminal time of transition? That's what we're going to talk about today. [00:00:30] [00:00:30] This pandemic hit at a really interesting time in my business. It was already a transition point because I had been working really hard to get an evergreen funnel finished. And after that, it was time for me to start transitioning into driving traffic into my evergreen funnel, like the work was done and now I just needed to get people to get into it and do it. [00:01:09]But then when all of this hit, there was this deep desire in me, not immediately, but pretty soon thereafter, to really be a leader through this all and bring positivity to the masses. Because I found in my darkest moments. Things that helped me get through where when I would talk to friends and family who were encouraging, who were positive, who brought confidence back to me and reminded me who I was and that even if everything changed, even if the photography industry completely, you know, like self-destructed and disappeared overnight and my business was gone, I could find something new to do that I was resourceful, that I was smart, that I was. [00:01:56] Going to get through this, and I was resilient and I needed that so much. I soaked it in. Not only that, but seeing the good that's coming out of this, seeing people connecting with each other in ways they haven't in maybe all of my lifetime. You know, like seeing people really get. ho, like think about others and begin to help them and seeing people sing from the balconies in Italy together and just seeing the beautiful bright spots amongst all the darkness and all of the panic and all of the fear, the bright spots, the positivity. [00:02:34] Brought me through this, that reminder of who I am, despite my circumstances brought me through this and I knew in my belly that I needed to help you remember who you are, that we are going to get through this and yeah, our businesses may look completely different after this. Our personal brands may look completely after this, or our personal brands may look completely different after this. [00:03:02] But we will get through this and we will come up on the other side. Having learned lessons that we never would have been able to learn if we hadn't gone through this. And I just felt so compelled to share this message. I mean, I just, even now, like I cannot help but to want you to see this as an opportunity to question. [00:03:24] Everything that you've done and say, is this really what you want to be doing? Or maybe there's something you've always wanted to try or do that's different. Or maybe there's something about you that you want to develop. Like, this is a small example, but I want to, I want to, I've always wanted to be a good guitar player and I just never took the time to do it. [00:03:43] I was. You know, I've said several times over that if I could go back to when I was a kid and I was super musical as a kid, really talented on clarinet, and I always said, if I could go back, I would have learned guitar instead because playing clarinet alone is not very fun. You really need to be in an ensemble to make it sound good and to really get the most of it. [00:04:01] And I love that. Like I, I, I'm in a community band right now. I have a B flat clarinet and a little E for clarinet that I just love to play in an ensemble, but alone. A clarinet is not a solo instrument, it's just not. But guitar really is. And I just, I wish I could play guitar as well as I play clarinet because I would be amazing. [00:04:22]And I was just said, ah, I really regret that. And it hit me like, Oh, I can still do that now. Like if I just spend consistent time practicing, if I make it part of my routine, it wouldn't take that many years for me to really be a great guitar player. Anyways. I know that's a weird example. Has nothing to do with business, but it has everything to do with what we're talking about today, which is finding focus. [00:04:45] And you know, for me, knowing that I wanted to inspire you to figure out what is it you really want and to take this as an opportunity to explore maybe some of the things that you've been putting off. Because it was just easy to keep doing what you were doing. Cause it brought in the money. you know, you were getting business and it took a lot of time. [00:05:05] And so there wasn't a lot of extra time to explore some of these other hobbies or these other things that maybe you wanted to pursue. And so, you know, for me, I felt that compelling. Like I just feel this deep, compelling. Pull. It's a fire. It's, it's, I can't not do it to help you and to anyone else out there who happens to hear this or come across me on Facebook or Instagram or wherever, I can't help but to want to help inspire you to really dig deep and figure out who you are and to bring hope even. [00:05:40] Even in the darkest situations, like I know that things might be really hard for you. I know they're hard for us right now, and I know you might be dealing with losses. You may know people who've passed away. I've started hearing my first stories, not of people I know yet, but. Of people I know, having people they know pass away from this pandemic, and it's terrifying, right? [00:06:02] And so we're gonna hear more of those stories, and I know we're all going to know somebody who's passed away from this by the time it's over, if it's really as bad as they say it's going to be. And so. Number one for me, I, this whole thing caught me off guard and just makes me want to podcast all the time and share hope and share inspiration and love on my people. [00:06:25]but I also recognize that I need to figure out how to make money through this. My business fully supports our family. We have no other income coming in and it has for years and it's been great, but now we need to figure out how to keep making money if my industry completely falls apart. Plus, I've got a bunch of admin crap that I've got to deal with. [00:06:45] You know, I've been not wanting to deal with doing taxes, but it's on the list of things that have to get done. But thankfully, now we've got that three month extension if we want it. But, you know, there's just all this stuff. And, And I sat down, you know, after we did the one K weekend and I got that funnel running and, and I had to just sit down one day and I was just like, what am I supposed to focus on? [00:07:07] Like I want a podcast, I want to get into my Facebook groups and I want to just love on my people and help them succeed and inspire them and give them ideas for how to do this and all this stuff. And, I was just, I felt like I was going in circles like, what do I focus on first? What do I do next? Like it was already a pivot point in my business and now with all of this thrown in, it's like, how can I do this? [00:07:31] Like how can I do all of it and possibly do it with less. People. I've had an awesome team. I happened to have just lost a few team members before right before this for totally unrelated reasons. And so, you know, we're, we were right in the process of hiring more and now it's like, well, do we really even hire those people or do we cut back and just run lean? [00:07:53] And if so, like, how much can I take on myself that, you know, maybe before I had team members doing like this podcast right now. I'm producing my podcast. So, you know, it's just, it's okay because I feel so drawn to do this that I can't, not, even though I don't really have help with it right now. So, and I can't really, honestly, I'm afraid to spend money doing this because this doesn't make me money, you know? [00:08:14] Right. This is my passion project. So, So I, I just, I kept going in circles like, do I podcast? Do I not? Do I, do I do something else? Do I make a new product? Do I offer a coaching thing? How do I get through this situation? Making the money I need to support my family, but also listening to that call to inspire people and how do I do that best? [00:08:34] And like, Oh my gosh, you, you're already hearing me talk a lot. But my mind was like, woo. Crazy, crazy. And that's okay. So I took some time. To get focused. And I know maybe you are sitting there saying, gosh, I just cannot focus. It's just all these things swimming through my mind. And so here's how I got focused in my business and really figured out not just business, but personal life too, and really figured out what I should be moving forward with. [00:09:04] Okay. So the first thing I had to do, and I didn't want to do this, and I'd. I'm hoping that you've already done this, but in the case that you haven't, I took some time and I faced all the what ifs that were going through my mind. Okay, so what if my business sales dropped significantly or completely stopped and we no longer had money coming in? [00:09:25] Like, what if I had to cut back on team or not hire somebody new? what did I need to do? Like who were the absolute essentials that I would keep no matter what? And who would maybe. Have to be let go, or you know, like if I can't pay them or laid off temporarily, right? If I had to do it mostly myself, what are the big rocks in my business that had to keep moving forward? [00:09:48]and that depended on what my main goals were. And so I had to figure out what my goals were. And the final thing was what does self care look like when you're stuck at home? Especially if you're stuck at home with six kids because it can be crazy. And I know for me, getting out as big part of my self care, and so I had a lot of things I wanted to really face and go through and here's, here's kind of where I came. [00:10:13] And it wasn't like a doomsday thing, like, yeah, it's. Feels that way sometimes, but when you finally face it, you can acknowledge your fears and just say, okay, well, worst case scenario, which may happen, well you don't know, but it might not, you know, it doesn't hurt to at least prepare for that. Where are we really at? [00:10:30] And just see and say, what would things look like if, how could we do what we want to do? Despite. All of these difficulties. Okay. So I started with my personal stuff, like what is it that I personally really wanted to focus on during this time? For me and for me, a personal thing was, I feel this, like I said, this fire to inspire people, and I really felt this compulsion to create content that would genuinely help my photographers get through this. [00:11:01] Or even you, whatever you do, whether you're a photographer or not, because this is more. I'm speaking in my mind, I'm speaking to all online entrepreneurs here, not just photographers. It's not a photography podcast. it's anybody who wants to have a personal brand, right? And so no matter what industry you're in, you know, I want to help you and inspire you, and I want to do podcasts and I want to do Facebook lives and all this stuff. [00:11:25]so. That was a big thing for me is, okay, I want to do it. This is a personal thing that I want to do. This isn't a moneymaker right now. Maybe one day it'll be, but right now as I'm recording it, it's not. Number two. I wanted to practice physical distancing, but not social distancing. I'm extremely extroverted and I knew that I was going to need to connect with people more than ever. [00:11:48] Because of all this isolation. And so I hate the term social distancing. I'm all about physical distancing and I think it's absolutely important. But don't stop meeting with people. I knew I needed to stay connected with them, but not only that, I knew that I wanted to help people connect with each other and connect with my brand and my personal brand. [00:12:07] So if I could help people, and you know, if you feel like you're closer to me because you're listening to this or that, I've helped in any way. Like. That makes me happy. That's what I want to do. And I've added a lot of personalization stuff to my business because I really want to connect with my people and I want to help them connect with each other because isolation is just going to feed any fear and shame. [00:12:28] We need each other to get through this in a healthy way. So. I wanted to help other people keep from getting isolated. I wanted to learn the guitar. I'm like, it's time. If I'm ever going to do it, why not now? Already talked about that. Plus, I know that I want to hike or snowshoe three to five times per week. [00:12:46] Now, I prefer to hike than snowshoe, but we still have too much snow on the ground, not to snowshoe. if all of this blows over, I'm signed up to do a 50 K trail race in the middle of may on this period. Your hiking trail, which is. Insane. It's 31 miles. I am not ready, even though I just did my Burkey a month ago, which is a 34 mile, ski cross country ski up and down, all sorts of Hills. [00:13:09] So that's insane too. I actually got a little bit of an injury to my hip flexor during that, so I took three solid weeks off and this past week, which was my fourth week since the Berkey, can't believe it's been that long. It feels like. Ages, but, I only did a couple small hikes just to kind of test it out. [00:13:25] Thankfully it seems to be healed, but, I want to get out three to five times a week. And thankfully I live very remote, so there's no people, like there's hardly anyone here. So the nice thing is I can get out without having to worry about, you know, running into lots of people in spreading the bug or contracting the bug, thankfully. [00:13:42] So that was kinda what I wanted to focus on on a personal side. [00:13:49] Then I talked. Then I took some time to really focus on what my big rocks were for my business. Like if I could only have a couple of outcomes in my business, what would I want to see happen? So number one was I wanted to see people actually take action and do the one K weekend challenge. both so that they can get results and keep moving forward. [00:14:12] But also. Practically so that they would have the money that they needed in case they wanted to keep really diving deep into personal brand photography, using my story sessions system, which has been proven to get people, clients, you know, month after month by over a thousand photographers. We've got in there. [00:14:31] It's amazing. And, so I really wanted to get people doing the one K weekend challenge and taking. Action. Okay. second, I want my photographers to survive this. And both the people who have bought from me in the past and are in my alumni and people who've never bought a thing from me, like I genuinely want to help as many photographers survive this pandemic as possible. [00:14:58] And I've already seen a few people say they're, they're quitting, they're, they're done. And that just breaks my heart. They haven't even tried yet, but it was our, it was kind of like. The straw that broke the camel's back. You know, they've been struggling a long time, and this is just, they're done. They're just tired. [00:15:14] They're done. And that's okay too. Like if that's really where they're at, then maybe it's a great time for them to pivot and find something that's going to bring them great joy. But for the people who really love photography, excuse me. Those are the people I want to help because I believe that when we come out on the other side of this, it's going to be awesome for personal brand photographers because there's going to be more people starting online businesses than ever. [00:15:41] Right now is a great time when everyone's at home for them to be working on their online business. You know that with all of these teachers being forced to teach online that they're going to see, it's not as hard as they thought, and some of them are going to want to start selling online courses or doing more stuff online and making a side income that way. [00:15:59] And I just, I feel like we're going to come out the other side of this and. It's going to like explode the need for personal brand photography. So if we can get through this dip, you know, especially if people are leaving and giving up their businesses, there's going to be fewer photographers as well, so there's going to be higher demand. [00:16:17] And less competition. And so the more people I can help hold on and really help them get set up for success right now during this hard time, the more profitable and successful they're going to be when they're able to finally start working with clients again. And I'm really excited for that. Plus, I believe that there's going to be some opportunities to add additional revenue streams to their businesses that are going to come to them and to me, and to like all of us through this time, like when we create this space and we just have time to think because we can't do all the things we normally do. [00:16:53] That's when their best ideas happen. And I've talked about that and the last season a few times, but this is like forced space creation. Like. That sounds really funny, but you know what I'm saying? Like people are forced to stop and think and get creative and say what if and what else and how can I stick with this despite what we're facing? [00:17:15] And I'm really excited for the innovation and the creativity that's going to come through that. So I want to help my photography. So one, I want to get them to do the one K weekend challenge because I believe if half of them are getting results, I'm going to have a lot of photographers. The more I do it, the more results they're going to get. [00:17:32] I want to help photographers survive this and really implement what they're learning in my system. So I'm. Then I want to really focus on building the culture and the personal brand photography movement. I want to create a safe space for my photographers to come and be honest about what they're struggling with, how they're doing. [00:17:53] Just give them a place to feel connected. Like I don't want just an audience. I want to create a movement, and I don't want to just be the only one nurturing that. I want this to be full of people who want to help each other who aren't. Action takers who genuinely believe we can get through this together and aren't afraid to help other photographers get through it too. [00:18:15] So, the final focus here is to become a leader in the entrepreneur space and a voice of hope and inspiration in this crazy time because I really want to encourage you. To lead to start and lead your own movement. Like, yeah, having an online business is awesome. Making money is awesome, but how much cooler is it to make an impact and lead a movement of people who you can help? [00:18:42] And I just, I feel, honestly, if I'm, if I'm completely honest, honestly honest, honest, can I say honest a few more times. Oh, you guys are getting all my weird quirks, but, I do believe that this is my platform and that these are my giftings. I'm kid with vision and strategy and connection, and I want to teach other people to do this too. [00:19:06] Because we can do so much more than just make money. We can change the world. We can change lives with the influence that we're given. And I want that to be a huge part of my personal brand and my message and who I am. Like I want to be on stages talking about this. So that's my business focus. Get people to do the one K weekend helps photographers survive, build this culture and movement. [00:19:28] And make it a safe space for my photographers and then become a leader and become known for helping people build and create movements. So, okay, so we talked about first and foremost, facing the what ifs, right? So this is how we get focused face the what ifs. What do you need personally? What are your business focuses? [00:19:47] If you can only have some big rocks. Finally, this is a final piece. You need to look at. How can you make this happen as simply as possible? Like, what do we do? We can't do everything. I definitely can't do everything. So for me, I definitely want to use Facebook groups to nurture my movement. I want to go through. [00:20:08] My story session system again with my alumni and any new people who've joined and do another six weeks of Q and a and actually do it together as a group one because they have the time to do it now. So it's a great time to go through it again too, because it's going to build that culture, that belonging, that community. [00:20:27] And I can help them navigate through this new landscape that we are all in because of the pandemic. And I want to do that for them. I just genuinely want to help. They're not paying for anything extra for me. I'm just giving extra because I know that it's going to help. So I'm excited about that. I want to do a lot of Facebook lives to really help encourage people to do this one weekend. [00:20:48] I'm running some ads as well, but I know the lives themselves. when people come alive and engage with them, that's the most powerful. And I want a podcast like crazy to really inspire you and become the thought leader that I believe that I am inside, even though I'm not super well known yet. So, I'll also use email to get out, you know, get the word out to my current list. [00:21:10] But the new one that I'm going to add that I've been kind of playing with for the last few months, kind of here and there, just to kind of test it out, is telegram. Now, telegram is an app that's going to help me stand apart from all the noise. So it's, it's similar to something like Voxer or Marco polo, if you've used either of those, or messenger or WhatsApp. [00:21:30] But it. There's a number of reasons that I'm not going to go into now as to why I'm choosing telegram. But I would love if you want to check it out, because this is something I'll probably talk a lot more about in the future as I use it more. go download the telegram app and it's free. If you go to personal brand journey.com, it'll take you to. [00:21:51] My podcasting channel, and you'll have to one, download the app, but then to click the join once it takes you to that channel, and you will get updates and see exactly how I'm going to be using telegram to let you know when podcasts are live and sometimes to give you a little extra behind the scenes. [00:22:11] Information and insight are goodies. But the reason I want to do that is because email, I have not done email since 2013. I hate email. And I know a lot of you don't read your emails or, the inboxes are using algorithm, so you don't even see them. Like maybe you'd love to see them and read them, but you don't even get them because of whatever crazy filtering the algorithms are doing behind the scenes. [00:22:32] Because yes, emails are subject to algorithms as well. And so, you know, it's. No one likes, you know, emails any, you don't email your friends, you know, so I don't, you know, I don't want to do that. I feel like Facebook messenger is kind of personal. I've used that a lot in the past, and I know there's still definitely some benefits to using it, but I like telegram better. [00:22:54] And so. telegram. It is. So check it out. plus it's less noisy than social media because you get, you can set it up to get notifications every time there's something new, so you never miss it. So definitely check that out. Some other people out there who are playing with this are Stu McLaren. He just started using telegram, I think this week. [00:23:12]James Wedmore has been using telegram a little bit over the last few months. So I know there's other people as well, but I really think that this is going to be a great platform going forward. So check it out because it's something you might end up wanting to use in your business as well. So those are the platforms that I'm going to be using to reach my business goals is Facebook groups. [00:23:32]and that'll be both for nurturing the movement and redoing my story session system with my alumni. When you're doing Facebook lives on my page and in my group, I'm podcasting emails and telegram. So it seems like a lot, but it's pretty, it feels light and easy for me based on who I am. So you have to figure out, as you're looking at your goals, what would make it light and easy for you to do that? [00:23:54] You know, part of the podcast, I think it was heavy, was I had this whole production, this whole. You know, SOP, which is a standard operating procedure for how to publish it and do it all the right way. And I just realized, you know what? I don't have to do all the keywording and all the whatever. I can just put the podcast out and let you hear the message. [00:24:13] And so I might not have fancy show notes. I might not have all the bells and whistles. I might not be marketing every single episode. But between publishing it and using telegram to tell you it's there. That means that I can get it out faster and easier and getting it out, even if it's not perfect, is better than not doing it at all. [00:24:32] We want to be taking action during this time. So here's my questions for you to find your focus. Number one. Face your what ifs, what are the things that you need to get real about? Look at how things really are right now and what if things don't go the way you want? What could, what would you have to do? [00:24:50] Like what would it look like if you need to cut back? If you're struggling, if you're not great, but you can still go through the what ifs if you want to. look at what you need personally during this time. Look at what your business focuses are, what would make the biggest impact in your business, and then figure out what your big rocks are and how you can do it as simply as possible. [00:25:09] So for me, my next steps are, I'm actually gonna put a calendar. I'm going to put a calendar together for myself to say, okay, Monday is the day I do my question of the week. And I do my new bright side show. Which is a Facebook live that I'm going to be doing in my group that I'm super excited about to nurture the group and to really help them focus on the bright side of things. [00:25:28] And then I'm going to say Tuesdays, this focus Wednesdays, this focus Thursdays, this focus, and it's not going to map out every single hour, but at least having each day have a focus will help me know what I should be working on and where my capacity is. And if I go in and I say, man, I don't think I can do all the things I really want to do. [00:25:46] Then at least I can re prioritize and come back and cut some of those things out, or maybe, which would be amazing. This quarantine won't last as long as we think it will, and I'm going to need to cut it back because all the activities are going to start up again. I'm banking on that, not happening yet. I feel like we still are getting into the worst of it, but, in the case that. [00:26:09] You know, we do have a 12 week quarantine. It's not, that's the wrong word, 12 weeks isolation, social distancing, whatever it is. Maybe shelter in place, depending on where you're at. you know, I can, that means I have a lot of extra work time and I can set those times up and I can figure it out so that I can come to my day. [00:26:26] I can know what I should be working on, at least from a focus perspective and not worry about when I'm going to fit everything in. It'll just help me keep from dropping all the balls. So, yeah. So I would love to know what your main business goals are, how you can best serve, you know, like, how are you planning to best serve your people through this? [00:26:44] And, if you want to share that, it'd be great. Go ahead. Do a story on Instagram and tag at Jamie M Swanson. I would love to hear. I'll be sharing some of them on a, I'll share some of them on my stories. If you tag me in them and talk about how this episode, this finding focus episode, and with that go definitely check out telegram, personal brand journey.com and if you haven't yet subscribed to this podcast, so yeah. [00:27:09] Hope this was a helpful episode. I know it was super long, but this is a process that I went through that was so helpful. That has given me so much peace because now I know how to move forward. Now I know what my big goals are despite the world having flipped upside down. And I know how to allocate my time to make sure that they're going to happen. [00:27:28] So, all right, in the next episode, this is really good. I was talking with my buddy Levi, and we were talking about branding and personal branding versus all the movement and culture stuff and whatever else. And he's going through a massive rebrand for everything. so we were discussing it and he had some questions. [00:27:48] And during that conversation I realized that if you really want to build. A successful business with a massive impact, you need more than just a personal brand in order to do that. Well, in fact, you need three elements. One of them being your personal brand to really be successful, and our conversation helped me. [00:28:10]Really find that framework and that is what I'm going to share with you in the next episode. So be ready for that because it's a really good one. . Don't forget to subscribe and sign up via telegram@personalbrandjourney.com and I'll see you there. Bye friend.

I had planned on launching it the very next day, March 12th and the whole premise behind that is to help my photographers book to clients and make $1,000 over a weekend. [00:00:11]But here we were the day before and everything is shutting down and people are being told to social distance and my stomach just dropped out. I'm like. What in the world am I supposed to do? [00:00:25] It was Wednesday, March 11th when I had my CoVID moment. That moment when I realized that this was something that I needed to take seriously, everything around me was starting to cancel. There had already been a few big shocks with like South by Southwest canceling and then one event after another after another, and then the school started canceling and all the events started canceling and everything. [00:01:05]Just kind of blew up in a good way and that people were finally understanding the distancing stuff, but it was really. One of those moments, and I'm sure you have your own where you realize the gravity of it. Before then, I was really self focused. I was in my own world, I've been working on creating an evergreen funnel from my one K weekend challenge, which you've heard a lot about. [00:01:26] The one K we can challenge in season one and I really wanted to get that into an evergreen format, and so I had my head down. I was focused. I was creating. Emails and content funnels and the whole works. And I had planned on launching it the very next day, March 12th and the whole premise behind that is to help my photographers book to clients and make $1,000 over a weekend. [00:01:51]But here we were the day before and everything is shutting down and people are being told to social distance and my stomach just dropped out. I'm like. What in the world am I supposed to do? [00:02:05] I can't not watch this thing because I had put a lot off to do this. money's been a little tight lately because I haven't launched in a long time because I've been working on this evergreen stuff and it was a crazy fall. [00:02:18] Personally. I'm sure you'll hear more about that as the podcast progresses this season, , so I was kind of in a tight spot, Michael, I don't want to put it off because things can get worse over the next few weeks. And what if it works? Like what if people are still able to book some clients and they can do all the planning and stuff now and just shoot the session later after all of this stuff has passed and everybody's out and about again. [00:02:41] So, I still did it. I launched it on Thursday and I'll share more about how it went in a future episode, but it was such a roller coaster of emotions. Honestly. Mostly panic. you know, like I had said, we'd been putting off launching , we probably had like six to nine months of income set aside to live off of as a cushion, which we'd been eating into in order to not launch so that I could focus on converting this to evergreen. And we were starting to see some results with another funnel that I had put together. But this one was the one that I knew was going to be the big money maker. [00:03:20] So. When this hit, it really sent me into a panic because we're near the end of what we have for our cushion financially, and that's never a good place to be. And just like that sales stopped, like stopped altogether. We are getting, you know, a handful of sales every week and then we got nothing, nothing, nothing. [00:03:40] And yes, we've gotten awesome membership, but it doesn't cover our bills. And I was just hiring two new people, someone to do tech for me. VA for me, not that this would ever come at a good time, but it came at a really rough time. And , I had a couple of really dark days. [00:03:55] I don't know how you handled your CoVID moment and how it affected you or how it's affecting you now. But I was super concerned about the financial impact because I saw my photographer is losing. Business not being allowed to shoot, having to close their doors for at least a temporary amount of time. [00:04:16] And I could see the financial impact that that was going to have on the entire economy, not just photographers, not to mention all of the health implications. I mean, that's serious as well, but , it's big. Right? , I'm sure you've had this right. , I'm super empathetic and so all it takes is one person panicking around me and it just pulls me really down. [00:04:37] I feel their emotions. And that's been really hard. living with so many people. I mean, I've got six kids. There's my husband, we have a nanny who lives in the house. , . I mean, it's totally normal to feel all the downside of things and that's okay. But what I found is that I really needed positivity and that, when I was around somebody who could bring hope and encouragement and confidence, it would pull me right up. [00:05:01] And so it was kind of this roller coaster of swinging down though and kind of dealing with the anxiety and the panic and then swinging up. And going to this place of wanting to be an inspiration and wanting to bring positivity to this world. And that's kind of where I've been lately. The last few days have been really good. [00:05:19] Thankfully for me, it's been 11 days since my coven moment. and so we're still brand new into this, but the last few days I have felt the deepest. Calling to bring hope and to bring inspiration to people out there who are hurting, who are panicking, who don't know how they're going to pay their bills, who don't know if their business is gonna survive or not. [00:05:44]and I just feel this deep fire in me to walk through this with you and with everybody else. And, I really feel like this is the year that I'm going to step up and I don't know if my business is going to make it I'm sure it'll have to change a little bit from what it is because my industry is struggling. [00:06:01] And so that has that direct effect on me. It's just, it's crazy is this not crazy times people, but here's the thing, I know that regardless of what happens to my business, I know that there's so much to be learned through this process. If I'm just open to it, I know that this is going to be. [00:06:22] Bring in new ideas and transformation. And if this business fails, I'm resourceful and confident, and I know that I can pivot, find something else, but I'm not going to go down without a fight. Which sounds really funny and I want to bring you along on that journey. So I'm so glad you are here with me on this journey listening, and I really appreciate you. [00:06:42] And if just one thing I say can inspire you or bring you hope or help you move forward. Then that is a win for me. , I am a fighter and I am determined to make it through. but even if I can't, even if we lose everything, , and that's a possibility. I want to go down inspiring and helping as many people as I possibly can. [00:07:04] No, I don't think we're going to lose everything and whatever else, but I've had to accept that that's an actual possibility. Right. But it's just stuff , here's what I want to do is I want to focus a lot on this podcast as much as I possibly can. Take the time to do that. Like, yes, I've absolutely still got to work on my business and work on making money in this podcast right now. [00:07:23] It's a labor of love. I'm not doing anything to monetize it. Maybe I should, but at the moment I just feel like this is the platform where I can document the journey and inspire and bring hope and share stories, and hopefully as you see me walking through the difficulties that I'm facing in my business, because you can absolutely be certain that I am going to tell you about them here. [00:07:45] I'm going to tell you how I'm getting through them, what I'm doing. I'm hoping that it will help you move forward. So here's what I would appreciate if you find this helpful, is if you would let other people know about it as well. I really feel this is the year that my platform is going to grow and we've had over 40,000 downloads on this podcast, even though a season one ended . [00:08:06] Back in August, I think, and I appreciate you so much, and I just really want to see the podcast grow this year because this is like, I don't know, I just feel so called to share what I know with entrepreneurs and influencers and really anybody who wants to be in the online business space. And the last several months, so the last nine months have been hugely. [00:08:30]Transformational for me, and I've got a ton of takeaways for it. And a lot of it revolves around growing a personal brand in this crazy time. Right. and here's the, here's the other weird thing. Okay. I already recorded three episodes for the season before all this coven. 19 stuff broke loose. And so, What I think I'm going to do is I'm going to release those three episodes next, right after this one. So it's going to be kind of disjointed because I know right now I'm talking about the coven 19 and how I'm going to face that with positivity. And then you're going to jump back to three episodes I recorded in January. [00:09:05] because I want to give you a little context on how the year began, but they are, pre pandemic, I don't know what the correct terms are here. You can pick the one that suits you best, then we're going to come right back to this. So I'm going to actually release them at the same time as this episode and encourage you to go binge listen to them. [00:09:22]There's some really great stuff in there. And I'm basically taking that as my foundation and pivoting off of that. So start there and then we're going to come back to this and, dive in. But in the meantime, if you haven't yet, go sign up for notifications using a free app called telegram. I know you have to download an app, but it's seriously one of the coolest things ever. [00:09:42] It's the best way to communicate with you without it getting lost in emails without it getting lost in a sea of social media. And so, you can sign up for that by going to personal brand journey.com and then, Click join. Well, you have to download the app if you don't have it yet, and then click join. [00:09:58] It's a totally free app, but it's super amazing and actually is one that I want to be using more and more and that I recommend you start playing with and using with your audiences and your movements as well. It's just wonderful. It's a really, really wonderful app. So, all right, so go dive into the next three episodes to get the backstory. [00:10:15]And then I'll be back with more of this journey through the pandemic and how I'm handling it and how I am trying to stay positive and focused despite these waves of panic that come. Because I know the biggest thing that has helped me is having positivity and having that encouragement, and that's what I want to focus on here. [00:10:35] We're going to focus on the bright sides of stuff without. Ignoring the difficulties, and we're going to see how we can take these moments of. Hardship, truly and transform them into something beautiful. just like in the forest in fall, everything dies and then in winter it's laying on the ground and it's decomposing underneath all the snow. [00:10:58] And we still have a ton of snow in Northern Minnesota. It is. Almost the end of March, and there's over two feet in the woods still. It's crazy. This winter, we'll never end here, but underneath that two feet of snow, it's starting to melt and the old leaves and plants and everything is decomposed. And I know it won't be long from now, but. [00:11:17] All of that stuff that died, , the beauty in the life and the leaves and all the plants and everything that I mourn over winter when it feels so empty, it's all breaking down and creating the exact nutrients that the forest needs to come alive with new life again. And that's my goal and my hope with this season is that there will be new life that comes from our past experiences that even if everything breaks apart and falls apart. [00:11:44]That our past experiences and everything that happened prior to this is just setting us up to have new life, new growth, and to go forward with hope. So would that go catch the next three episodes? Sign up for telegram@personalbrandjourney.com [00:12:01] and with that I will see you in the next episode.

Are you having a hard time staying present, optimistic and focused with the corona virus situation that has gripped the world and seems to be never ending? You might be having a really tough time not feeling anxious, worried, scarce and stuck in your head right now. As the news seems to get worse everyday, it's understandable that your perspective and hope for a resolution seems to get more dire each day. This as an opportunity for us all, and even if you're not in that headspace just yet, I want to share with you a question that can help you get back into a more grounded frame of mind where you can have a more empowering influence and impact over your unique situation. The question is: If you were to fast forward to when all of this has blown over, and you reflect on how you showed up during the time of crisis, what will have you feeling inspired by how you chose to show up? Literally, think about when all of this is over and you're reflecting back on how YOU handled it all, what is going to make you say to yourself "Wow, I'm so proud of myself for how I showed up!" For example, with me I will be incredibly inspired if I am MORE giving and loving to others throughout all of this. If I'm reaching out to family, friends, current clients, former clients, people from my past, to genuinely check up on them and see if they need anything. Setting that intention, and following through on it, will have me feeling great about how I chose to rise up in the face of this adversity. Performing the same exercise for yourself can truly help you get out of your head, and get into a plan of action that will restore your power and your ability to positively impact your situation. So answer the question, make a list of everything that comes up for you, keep that list top of mind (print it up or put it on your phone), and each day work towards BECOMING that version of you. As you do that you'll be spending less time focusing on your problems and worries, and more time helping others, creating things, serving, innovating and overall just being in your circle of influence. Timestamps Magic (03:05) Listener love (05:42) Context around the one question (06:55) The one question to ask yourself (12:38) I want to personally help you if you need it (28:53) Reach out if you're struggling with everything going on Seriously, if you want to jump on a Skype call because you're having a tough time dealing, I'm making myself available to you. If you want some perspective or some advice, reach out. If you want me to cover something specific in an episode that will help you deal with everthign going on, reach out and let me know. Email: matthew@matthewbivens.com Instagram: @matthew_bivens

Today’s guest is an early convert to the ways of Agile marketing, who knows that Agile teams do better work in less time with less stress, and she loves nothing more than seeing a team evolve from chaos to high performance. Andrea Fryrear (FRY-rear) is the co-founder of AgileSherpas, where she works to guide marketers along the path toward greater agility. A content marketer by trade, Andrea holds multiple Agile and Scrum certifications. She’s a regular international speaker on all things Agile marketing, and she’s especially excited to share her expertise at the 2020 Marketing Agility Summit. We talk about several awesome topics, but the main gist is the 3 Agile marketing myths listed below: Agile is all about speed. Agile marketers don't have a plan If I'm not in the same room, we can't be Agile.  * Quick Start Guide is the free gift for joining our mailing list  * The Trello template is here: next level Trello template! Learn more and connect with Andrea at https://fryrear.com/ Connect with Tersh on all social media @tershblissett Learn more about the CRM Tersh uses here. Service Business Mastery Podcast

Episode 395 | Dr. Michael Horton and Adriel Sanchez answer caller questions. Show Notes CoreChristianity.com Key questions answered in today's show: 1. In 1 Corinthians 15 it speaks of a spiritual body that we will receive in heaven. I’m confused about this because the Bible doesn’t seem to say much about it. Can you shed some light on what our spiritual bodies will be like and how that will be different from the physical body we now have? 2. How do you understand the story of Judah and Tamar? What are we supposed to learn from this? 3. If I'm depressed and have anxiety am I a bad Christian?   4. Can you speak to the idea that God helps those who help themselves? There are a lot of Christians that believe that we just need to sit around and wait for God to do everything. When the Bible gives us a very different picture. Resources The Message of Acts in the History of Redemption by Dennis Johnson Core Christianity: Finding Yourself in God's Story by Michael Horton

This devotional episode is based on 1 Peter 4:7-11. We wanted to share how Love covers a multitude of sins and why it is so important that we love with this level of eagerness.1 Peter 4:7-11 The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers. 8 Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.PrayerDear Lord,We lift up our hearts to you right now and ask that you would make us a people who love others earnestly. Holy Spirit direct our hearts and remind us of your word. We pray we would above all things love others. We pray we would love our spouse, our children, our friends, and those who are in our life. May your love pour out of us. May your love pouring out of us transform our marriages. We pray others would be impacted by the love we share. We pray we would be able to love so deeply that it covers a multitude of sin. We pray that instead of shame or guilt, people would feel undoubtedly loved by us and by you. We pray for your word to be fulfilled through our choices to walk in love and that your will would be done.In Jesus’ name, amen! READ TRANSCRIPT- [Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith, with "Marriage After God." - [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. - [Aaron] And today we're gonna talk about how love covers a multitude of sin. Welcome to the "Marriage After God" podcast where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. - [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. - [Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. - [Jennifer] We have been married over a decade. - [Aaron] And so far, we have four young children. - [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media. - [Aaron] With a desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day. - [Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life, - Love, - And power, - [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God, - [Jennifer] Together. - [Aaron] Thank you for joining us on this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. - [Jennifer] This is "Marriage After God." Okay Aaron, so we, we survived kind of a hard week. - [Aaron] We did survive. - I mean, - We're barely coming on - Our kids survived. - The other side of it, yes. - [Jennifer] But we're not the only ones going through this, so we thought we would just give you guys a little update of our family and hopefully encourage some of you out there who it might be hitting as well. - [Aaron] Yeah, our whole family got the flu. It was bad, but not bad. It was kind of a weird thing. - [Jennifer] Well, I'll say this, the Lord spared me and gave me the grace to be able to help everyone. 'Cause I felt-- - And you didn't even really get sick, you got some of the, like you felt sick. - Yeah you know the gut pain? - [Aaron] But you didn't have any other symptoms, which was awesome. - And the rosy cheeks. I felt like every once in a while, like I really don't feel good right now, I need to go lay down, but for the most part, I was able to be there to help everyone. Which made me really nervous, because people were, you and the kids were throwing up and I just thought, me, at this stage of the game in pregnancy, throwing up would not go over well with my body. - No and so-- - That woulda been terrible. - [Aaron] We're definitely thanking God, which we did a lot of, oddly. But not to be too graphic, but I'm pretty sure I put a rib out from how hard I was throwing up. - [Jennifer] That sucks. - [Aaron] Yeah, it still is really sore. But, what's awesome is, a couple of things, I just wanna praise you Jennifer, because I feel like you handled everyone being sick, and the inconvenience of it so well. I think I even told you, I was like, "I can tell you're walking in the spirit." Like your attitude was good, how much cleaning had to be done. - [Jennifer] It was a lot of work. - [Aaron] It's no fun when literally all the boys are throwing up and it's like, there's no clean blankets. - [Jennifer] It's all at the same time. - [Aaron] Yeah, so we, but we survived, we're coming on the other side of that. But one thing we practiced, I don't think we've ever done it before, not that we're not thankful to God. - [Jennifer] Not in this kind of circumstance, it's not at the forefront of our minds. - [Aaron] I did a post a couple weeks ago encouraging men to thank God for everything, if they get cut off in traffic, if something bad happens, even-- - [Jennifer] You didn't say if your whole family comes down with sickness, did you? - [Aaron] I know, if something good happens, I just said, say, whatever it is that happens today, thank God for it. And I tried practicing that. And so I'm literally in the fetal position in the bathtub, and I'm trying to thank God. I'm like, "Okay God, thank you. "Thank you for being sick." And I was like, why am I thanking God for this? Well, thank you for reminding me that I'm human. Like I'm fragile. Thank you for reminding me that one day I'm not gonna have this sickness. - [Jennifer] Or that we need to pray. - [Aaron] Yeah thank you for reminding, - Ask him. - Humbling me, showing me that my weakness. So there was a lot of things to thank God for for being sick, and I directly thanked God for being sick. And then we of course have thanked God for healing us and sparing our family from being even worse, 'cause it probably could have been worse. - [Jennifer] Something that really stood out to me is I didn't know you had this perspective kind of going into everyone being sick, and I wouldn't say I was there with you in those beginning moments, but you brought the family to the living room, and you said, "You know what, we're gonna pray, "and we're just gonna thank God today." And I think even one of the kids asked, "Why are we thanking God?" - [Aaron] Doesn't make any sense. - [Jennifer] But I was questioning it in my own heart too, like, okay, where's this going? But it was so beautiful to hear your prayer and you starting out saying, "God, thank you for this sickness." And it was humbling for me and for my heart to go, "oh yeah" you know? And to have that perspective before him. And then, I gotta share this other experience is just a friend of mine who, their family also got it really bad. - [Aaron] Pretty much our whole church got sick. - [Jennifer] But I met up with her for coffee when it was all past and she goes, "You know I just found, we found our whole family "just worshiping God through it." And it was so cool, kinda the same thing. And I said, "I didn't really worship him through it, "but at the end of all the laundry being done, "all the bathrooms being cleaned, "and having taken a shower, I came out singing "'Victory in Jesus' so, that was awesome." - [Aaron] But it is worship. Thanking God is worship. So whatever he gives, I think Job says it, "Should we not thank God for the good and the evil?" Like the bad things that happen? We thank God for those too, because he's God and he deserves our thanksgiving. And at the end of the day, salvation is so much greater than anything that we can go through. So, at minimum you can be like, "God, thank you so much "that one day I'm gonna be with you." That is so good. - [Jennifer] So if your family happens to get hit by whatever bug this is, - [Aaron] It's going around, yeah. - [Jennifer] Whatever's going around, we just wanted to encourage you guys to move forward with a thankful heart and to trust God and to be prayerful. And also just to be patient, because we know it's an inconvenience, we know it's hard, it takes away from your work schedule, it takes away from things on your to-do list that maybe you were hoping to do or whatever it is. We know it's hard, but if God's allowing it to happen, we can trust him and walk through it with him. - [Aaron] Yeah, so that was just a little update on our flu campaign. But we wanna encourage you. We have a new challenge. We've been doing a lot of these lately, a lot of new downloads and challenges and free things that you guys can get from us. And our new one's called the parentingprayerchallenge.com. We launched it last week and this week you get to do it. We're still encouraging parents to sign up to pray for either their daughter or their son or both. So if you haven't signed up for the Parenting Prayer Challenge, it's completely free. We're gonna send you 31 prompts every day, encouraging you to pray for different things for your child. - Over 31 days. - Over 31 days. - [Jennifer] Not 31 emails in one day. - [Aaron] Yeah, that's happened one time. Yeah, one a day, and the whole idea is that at the end of the 31 days you've built a habit of praying for your children. I'm sure all you parents love to pray for your children, but we just wanted to give this resource to encourage you to pray more, to pray deeper, to pray more consistently and give you ideas on what other things to pray for for your kids. - [Jennifer] Yeah, and I'll add this, it goes hand in hand with our books, "31 prayers for your son and for your daughter." And if you have those books, oh this'll be an incredible reminder. It's kinda like an alarm, right? Because your email comes through and then you're like, "Oh yeah." So you can get the book and go along with it that way too. - [Aaron] Mm-hmm, so parentingprayerchallenge.com, all one word, spelled the way you would think it's spelled. And sign up for free today. All right guys, we've been doing this new thing, we've mentioned it a few times this season. We're trying to do a marriage episode, we're doing a devotional style episode, a Q&A, we're trying to give a little bit more diversity on the kinds of things we're bringing up and this episode's gonna be a devotional style. We're gonna talk about some scripture. And something that we've been learning, something that I taught on at church. And so we hope it encourages you and why don't you, Jennifer start off by reading-- - [Jennifer] Oh, I was gonna sit back and let you teach for 30 minutes, yeah. - [Aaron] Oh, I'll just do it? No. - Go for it. - [Aaron] Why don't you read the scripture that we're gonna be talking about, - Okay. - And then we'll go into it. - [Jennifer] So it's 1 Peter 4:7-11 and it says this, "The end of all things is at hand, "therefore be self controlled "and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers. "Above all, keep loving one another earnestly "since love covers a multitude of sins." - [Aaron] This is a great scripture in 1 Peter and we're excited to talk about it and what it means for us as believers, not only in our marriages, but just in life in general and walking in the body of Christ. And the power that is in our love for one another. And what that means and looks like. So we're gonna dig into this, these few scriptures, and kinda break it down and talk about some stuff and Jennifer you might have some questions. But we're just gonna break it down and see how this applies to us in our life. So the first thing I wanna point out is where our perspective should be. And Jennifer you read it, the very first thing it says in verse seven is "The end of all things is at hand." - [Jennifer] I feel like there should be an exclamation mark. - [Aaron] And it's almost is, it's a semicolon which says everything I'm about to say is attached to this statement. The end of all things is at hand, and so, we can easily, quickly think this is talking about Jesus coming back, or the end of days, right? But in the New Testament when it talks about the end of days or all things at hand or the end of the generation, it's mostly talking about all of the things that needed to take place, they needed to occur for the salvation story, for redemption, God's plan for redemption that he's been planning and preparing since Adam and Eve in the garden. And so, when Peter says the end of all things is at hand, he's saying that essentially, Christ has been born, he's died, and he's resurrected. - [Jennifer] Like we have what we need. - [Aaron] The thing that God has planned to take place has taken place. - Yeah. - [Aaron] Which means a lot. It means that we can now draw near to God. It means that we now can have salvation and a right relationship with God. Because without the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and his ascension and him sending the holy spirit there is no, like we can't be made right with God. So all of those things, the end of all things is at hand. The end of everything that God planned for salvation has been done, as Jesus says on the cross, it is finished. So it didn't necessarily mean that hey, the end of the world is tomorrow. But it's also an allusion, it alludes to Christ returning. Because now that the church age has begun, the spirit is living in man, we're made right with God, the bride of Christ is growing, we have an expectation of Christ's return. So we're in this imminent return zone. Like at any moment Christ can come back. - [Jennifer] And we are, we're called to walk a certain way. - [Aaron] Yeah. And so that's kinda, he starts off these statements with here's how you should be thinking. Realize first and foremost you have everything you need because Christ died and resurrected. He's given you his spirit, so now you can walk in his spirit and not the flesh. Like the things that we need to accomplish what he's about to tell us have already happened and are already available to us and been given to us. So that's our perspective in our relationships with our spouse, our children, our church body. That the end of all things is at hand. Like first and foremost, I have everything I need in Christ Jesus, to walk this way that we're about to talk about. And I walk this way because I look forward to Christ coming back, and I wanna not be ashamed at his return, I wanna stand boldly at his return. I wanna be excited for his return. - [Jennifer] It gives those relationships a lot of depth and purpose, how we interact with each other and how we're supposed to be in those relationships with each other. - [Aaron] Right and so, if you think about your marriage. You say, "Well, I just can't because my husband "is this, this, this." - [Jennifer] Or together you're just facing a really hard circumstance. - [Aaron] Yeah, like we went through stuff. And it's like, oh, our love for each other is stifled because of this hard circumstance or these character traits in the other person. But if our mindsets are on wow, first of all I can, because Christ did, and I should, because Christ is coming. My perspective and the way I treated you and the way we treat others would totally be transformed because we're no longer thinking of this immediate, well how did you treat me and how am I gonna treat you? - [Jennifer] Well, it's not about us. - Exactly. - Right? - [Aaron] Which is a powerful thing. And this is being taught to the believer, but the ramifications for this is in every aspect of your life. Most directly in your marriage and then also most directly in all of your relationships with other believers in the church. We need to have this perspective. - [Jennifer] Okay, so, then moving on in that verse, the next word is therefore. - [Aaron] Yeah and-- - [Jennifer] So the end of all things is at hand, - [Both] Therefore. - [Aaron] Yeah, and someone always says, "What's therefore there for?" I mean you ask yourself, "Well, why is that there?" And it's attached to the last statement. So, since the end of all things is at hand, be this way. And what does it say right there, Jennifer? - [Jennifer] Be self controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers. - [Aaron] So, in relation to our relationships and in our life and in the way we interact in this world, self-controlled, how often do we say the word self-controlled in our house? - [Jennifer] Well, we're in the beginning stages of training our kids, so I feel like we say it all the time, multiple times a day. - [Aaron] 150,000 times a day. Are you being self-controlled? - Remember, self-control. - [Aaron] Be self-controlled, you're not being self-controlled. You must have self-control. Like over and over and over again. 'Cause that's, I mean our kids are learning to have control over themselves, that's the point. But self-controlled meaning, in my life, am I in control or is my flesh in control? 'Cause when my flesh is in control, we are not self-controlled. We're gonna eat as much as-- - We just give way - We want. - To whatever we want, yeah. - [Aaron] When I'm angry, I'm just gonna say what I wanna say. Oh, well, I was angry, that's why I said that. Well, that's not self-controlled. That's just blurting out what's coming to your mind because you're angry, rather than considering the other person. - [Jennifer] Which the mind is the next thing it says. - [Aaron] Yeah, sober-minded, which yes, this is talking about sobriety, not on drugs, not drunk with alcohol, but sober-minded is much more than just, we talked about this in another episode. I can't remember the name of the other episode, but it's having a right way of thinking. A clear way of thinking. So if you think about, we just talked about anger. You know Jennifer, you do something that really frustrates me and then I get so angry I just start saying whatever I want, like I'm not being sober-minded. I'm letting my wrath and my anger control my words and my actions, rather than my mind. - [Jennifer] It's like being self-controlled of your mind specifically. - Right. - [Jennifer] Like being able to have those thought processes and walk yourself through it mentally. - [Aaron] Another example of being sober-minded is fear. So, there's nothing wrong with natural fear, like you know fire's gonna burn you, so you don't touch it, but we're talking about like there's something going on in the world and it's causing us to have this anxiety and fear which causes us to make decisions and not seek out wisdom and oh, we're gonna go do this thing because XYZ over here, I don't know how that's gonna turn out, therefore we're gonna. And so that's not sober-minded either. Instead of thinking through what is reality, thinking through what is the repercussions if XYZ happens or if we don't have what we need or if, like thinking sober-minded is rather than operating in the fear and just making decisions off that, you're operating in knowledge and wisdom and you seek counsel and you're slow to act, slow to speak. So that's the idea of sober-minded. So since we know that the end of all things is at hand, meaning we have everything we need in Christ, meaning all of the things that God planned for redemption has happened, you have the holy spirit, be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers. - [Jennifer] So real quick, I just have to, just hearing you repeat that, it says, "Be self-controlled and sober-minded "for the sake of your prayers," that means you're praying. So it's almost like it's saying be self-controlled and sober-minded and prayerful. Like be a person of prayer. - [Aaron] Right, and we just talked about being sick. If our minds were in this position of thankfulness and we were just wallowing in the suffering, 'cause throwing up's not fun, not feeling good is not fun, and we could just sit there and be like woe is us. And we're not even being sober-minded in that. But instead we're like, "Thank you Lord." It actually helped us elevate above our current circumstances to be able to see it from a heavenly position. Like, okay, well, just because this thing is happening, doesn't mean I stop being a Christian. Doesn't mean I can now act XYZ, be this way, say these things. No, I actually even in this, can walk this out. Because we know all things have been fulfilled in Christ, and his return is imminent, even in my sickness I get to say, "Well if Christ was to come right now, "I wanna be like him, wanna look like him." This is how we must live as people who claim the name of Jesus. We can't claim the name, but not walk it out. - [Jennifer] Mm-hmm, okay so before you move on, I feel like maybe some of our listeners would have the same question, and that is, it says "for the sake of your prayers" so does that mean your prayers are in trouble if you're not being self-controlled or you're not being sober-minded? What does that mean? - [Aaron] Yeah, I mean, in 1 Peter I think we get another picture of that when it talks about husbands walking with their wives in an understanding way, it says for the sake of your prayers. So, there is a way that the believer can walk that would hinder our prayers. And it could be put this way, someone told me once, "God's not gonna tell you "to do a new thing until you've done the old thing." Like the thing he's asked you to do already. And so it's almost like this, we're looking for a new word from the Lord, we're looking for guidance and wisdom. And he's like, well, but you're not even loving your wife right now. - Mm-hmm, I have a really good example of this when it comes to kids. Olive, just I think it was yesterday, she came up to me and she was like, "Mom, I don't have anything to do." And so I gave her something to do, it was a small task. And she turned around really quickly and said, "I don't wanna do that." - [Aaron] What else can I do? - [Jennifer] What else can I do? And I looked at her, I said, "Sweetheart, "can you go do what Mommy asked you to do?" - [Aaron] Right. Yeah, and there's even a scripture that says, "Go back and do the first things "that you've been told to do." Like you've left your first love, we learned in Revelations. There's this idea of like, God's already given us some commands, given us some things to do as believers. In his power, to do it, and we wanna skip over those things and we're gonna talk about this. We wanna skip over those things to get to the other things. We're like, "Well, I don't wanna do that thing." Loving that person's difficult. Or, praying for that person, ehh, let's pray for this big thing over here. - [Jennifer] Or how about, "I'll be self-controlled, "but I don't care about being sober-minded." - Exactly yeah. - You know what I mean? - [Aaron] Which doesn't make any sense because, - [Jennifer] I know. - [Aaron] If you're not sober, like let's talk about being drunk, you're not in self-control either. Those things go hand in hand. So yes, the Bible teaches that our prayers can be hindered. I don't know exactly what that means, does that mean that God doesn't hear 'em at all? Or is it that I am hindered? Like I'm not gonna want to pray more. I don't have a desire to, I'm frustrated. No, Lord, I don't want to. It's like when our, like you said our kids, when they have an attitude, Wyatt crosses his arms, puts his head down, it's like he doesn't wanna look at us. - [Jennifer] Or like that example you gave of us being sick, if we weren't sober-minded and self-controlled, we wouldn't have prayed in thankfulness, so yeah, hindered in a way that if we're not walking that way and we're not being that way then we won't be praying at all. - Yeah so, - We won't be a people of prayer. - Regardless of how it plays out, I don't want either of those things. I wanna be able to come to God boldly and I also want God to receive me and hear my prayers. The Bible tells us that the prayers of a righteous man availeth much, it's in James. And I want my prayers heard. I want them to avail much. And when I pray for my family, when I pray for health, when I pray for opportunities, when I pray for other, my family members, when I pray for the lost, I want those prayers to be heard and to have power with God. So, God says, "Well be sober-minded and self-controlled "so that your prayers won't be hindered." Then I should just do that. - [Jennifer] Do it. - [Aaron] It's not easy all the time, but that's what we get to do, because the end of all things is at hand, so I should be able to do it. Okay, so let's move on to this next part of this verse. - [Jennifer] Well the next verse. - [Aaron] Yeah, the next verse, there ya go. Verse eight starts off, it says, "Above all." Okay, and I just wanted to highlight this idea, so if you're in your Bible, which that'd be awesome if you were, you should be. It says, "Above all," comma, "keep loving one another earnestly." And I just wrote down some ideas of what's the all? Like above all, above how generous you might be financially, like, "I've given so much." Above being right, like "Well I know "that this scripture means this." Above memorizing every scripture, above being debt free, above your health, above your safety, above all. Above everything that you see as good, 'cause these things are good, for the most part, don't neglect to do this thing. So, above all, do this thing, right? - [Jennifer] Do you think it's easy for us in our flesh to justify like, "Well, I don't have to love that person, "and we don't even get along, but I'm doing this "over here, so, I'm good with God because this over here." Do you hear what I'm saying? - [Aaron] Yeah, we do this all the time, and there's a scripture that I'll bring up that shows this hypocrisy. Like, "Well no, that person doesn't need to be in my life, "because of XY and Z, but, you know what? "But I read every day, I'm in the word every day." "Oh but I pray, I'll pray for that person. "I don't have to love 'em, but I'll pray for 'em." I think something that I've heard a lot, and it doesn't make any sense, but we say this, "Oh, I love him, I just don't like him." Almost as if love is this general like, yeah we're in the same city, but I'm never gonna talk to him, I'm not gonna be kind to him, I'm not gonna be cordial, I'm not gonna even, I don't wanna go out of my way for them. I'm not gonna give to them, I'm not gonna help them, I'm not gonna. So what love is that? - [Jennifer] If you're doing that, I was gonna say, what's your definition of love? - [Aaron] And that's my point is we, okay, I'll just do this. So the point of everything I said above all, or not that we shouldn't do those other things, 'cause I never want someone to be like, "Well, all we have to do is love others, "and we don't have to be generous, "and we don't have to read our word and memorize scripture." These things that are actually really good for us. "And my health and my, all these things don't matter, "as long as I just love." No. All of those things matter, but we don't neglect this one thing, and often it's the one thing we neglect. We work on all those other things, 'cause we have, those are easier, those are personal. We can control 'em. We can't control other people and that's why it's so hard. And I think of this in Matthew 23:23 Jesus says this, he says, "Woe to you scribes and pharisees, hypocrites, "for you tithe mint and dill and cumin, "and have neglected the weightier matters of the law." And then get what he says, "Justice, mercy and faithfulness. "These you ought to have done "without neglecting the others." - [Jennifer] Like do it all. - [Aaron] He's like, "Yeah, you spent time, "you outwardly show all these good things that you do, "yet you've neglected justice, like you don't care "about those in your midst who need justice "and you've been unjust." Or showing mercy and faithfulness. You haven't remained faithful to your spouses, you haven't remained faithful to your people, you haven't remained faithful to, and he's saying these things you should have done without neglecting those other things that you do. And so that was the point I was getting at is like yeah, all those other things are good, but we cannot throw out loving one another earnestly. - [Jennifer] So you used the word earnestly, why don't you define that, just for our listeners really quick? - [Aaron] Okay, 'cause it's a pretty powerful word and it's how he wants us to love each other. It's not like, "Hey, I love you, yeah I'll see you later. "Oh yeah, we're good buddies." It's something deeper than that. He says, "Love one another earnestly." And the definition of earnestly means with sincere and intense conviction. It's so powerful. It's not just a, in passing a word you just say about someone, it's a life lived out way of loving. It's a my actions and the way I think reflect the deepness of my conviction and belief about how I love you. And so a perfect example is in marriage. I love you, and it's not just a word. I show you by how I take care of you. And how I show up every day and how I sit and talk with you. And how I ask for forgiveness, and I'm patient, and all these things are the actions of my love for you. - [Jennifer] Yeah, I think that's really important to point out, because I think in marriage specifically, you can text each other back and forth, I love you, or say it at the end of a phone call, conversation. Saying it in passing or before you leave to go to work. But are your actions proving what those words actually mean? So you've convinced yourself in your mind, yeah, of course I love my husband, of course I love my wife. And I tell them every day. - [Aaron] How do they know? - [Jennifer] But, are your actions supporting your words? - [Aaron] Yeah, and so let's break down this definition a little bit, it says with a sincere and intense conviction, that's the earnestness. Sincere means free from pretense or deceit. Proceeding from genuine feelings. So I don't just say it, it's not just a word that I use so that I look good with my other Christian friends and brothers and sisters. - Or that you know you should use because you're married. - [Aaron] Yeah, like, "Oh yeah, of course I love so-and-so." But yet, you don't truly believe it in your heart. You struggle with believing, like well, do I love him? I mean, I could move on. I'm not going to, 'cause I don't wanna look bad. That's not love, it's a free from pretense or deceit. So there's nothing, you're not saying it to receive anything like, "Oh good, so good that you love that person." And you're not saying it out of, it's not a lie. When you say you love someone it's truthful. It's a genuine, genuineness, a real thing from with inside of you. And then that second part, intense conviction. And I smashed two definitions together, 'cause the word intense and conviction I put them together and it's a highly concentrated and firmly held belief in what you are doing, right? So, it's not going away. My love for my brothers and sisters in Christ, my love for others in the world, my love for my wife, it's real and it's going to drive my actions and my decisions and my attitudes and it's gonna cause me to repent and it's gonna cause me to change and grow because that conviction is solid. It's there, and when I'm challenged in that conviction, when the listener is challenged in that conviction of love, they get to ask themselves, "Well do I truly love so-and-so?" And then they get to remember, well, the end of all things is at hand, I must love so-and-so, regardless. Without pretense, it needs to be truthful and powerful. That's what that word earnestly means. - [Jennifer] I love that definition of intense conviction that you shared, and it makes me think how intentional this type of love truly is, because-- - [Aaron] That's a good word, intentional. - [Jennifer] Yeah, it's intentional because you're motivated by your, like it said, "firmly held belief in what you are doing" so everything that I do in our home, everything I do with our kids, everything I do with you, comes out and is an overflow of this belief that I have that I truly love you and that genuine feeling that you talked about earlier. And that's such a different situation when you compare it to just saying the words I love you or just going about your day without any motivations as to why you're doing those things, you know? It makes me think of the type of motivational speaking you hear when it comes to entrepreneurship, where it's like, "You gotta know your why." You gotta know your why. - Yeah, what's your why? - [Jennifer] What's your why? So it makes me go there when I think about in marriage, why are you doing all the little things that you do throughout your day? It's because you love that person. - [Aaron] Mm-hmm, and it's not superficial, and it's not just a word, but it's an actual held belief. Like "No, I love my wife. "I love John over there." Like truly love them, not just, "We're Christians "and we love each other." - Right. And if we truly consider this you guys, then when we get into a hard spot in marriage, when we get into conflict or something happens unexpectedly that you don't desire, you can continue on, because there's this hope knowing that, "Well no, I love them. "You know, I know this is hard, but God's given me "a love for them." - [Aaron] Yeah. What I think is really cool, I just thought about this, often we think about this idea of growing in love, which we do, we change and our level of love deepens. - It deepens, yeah. - [Aaron] But it's actually, the way this is stated, it's actually a starting point. We start at this basis of love for one another. Not build into it. It starts at this place and I thought that was really cool. I just was, - I like that. - [Aaron] I was just thinking it's like it's not, yeah, it does grow over time, but it's also, like you said, even in those hard times, you default to that position of love. Not default to, well we're not in love because, or we're building in love and the default position is no love. That's not actually, I mean marriage starts, usually, for the most part, with a deep conviction of love. And so the default position is love. And I didn't have the scripture originally here, but I thought about this and I think it goes perfectly well. What this level of love is supposed to look like, it's supposed to be remarkable. It's not supposed to look like the love of the world. Like the world loves itself. There's people that they love their own and they do a good job of that, but the love that Christians are supposed to have for one another is supposed to be remarkable, miraculous. And Jesus puts it this way in John 13:34. "A new commandment I give to you, "that you love one another. "Just as I have loved you, "you also are to love one another. "By this all people will know that you are my disciples "if you have love for one another." So it's not like, if we do these great things, or if we have this great band, or if we preach this great message, it says if you love one another the way I loved you, the whole world will know, oh that's a disciple of Christ. - [Jennifer] Yeah. - [Aaron] That's remarkable. So I get, the question I have in your marriage, in your relationships at church, would the world look at how you love them as remarkable? Like that's a remarkable love. How could he love like that? How could she love like that after so much has happened to her, after this or that? It's a remarkable love and it can only be done with Jesus Christ. That's what he says, "If you love as I have loved you." Which is an amazing, amazing kind of love. It's literally remarkable. And I have some notes here and this is, this is exactly why churches fall apart. This is why friendships dissolve, this is why marriages end. When we let the intensity of our conviction to love each other soften. We got to that point a few years into our marriage. Our conviction to love one another, because of the things we were going through, got weakened. - [Jennifer] I was gonna say, I don't feel like softens is just the right word because it sounds mushy-gushy, but I mean we're talking about the dissolving of that belief and conviction. - [Aaron] Yeah. And it's not that those things that were happening had some external power to weaken our love for each other superficially, - We chose that. - We let our love, yeah we chose it, that's a good word. And so, I just wanna ask you, as we get into this, have you let your love, the earnestness of your love for your spouse, for other believers, weaken? For whatever reason, because someone hurt you, because someone said something harmful about you, because someone didn't pay you back? - [Jennifer] The relationship's messy or hard or challenging and you just wanna, - Walk away. - Walk away. - It'd be easier. - Yeah. - [Aaron] There's been so many times I've thought to myself, it would just be easier to move. - [Jennifer] Well, we thought that in the beginning of our marriage when we were facing hardship and we got to the point at the end of three and a half years where we were, so incredibly close to walking away convinced in our selfish flesh that it would be better for each other if we just separated. - [Aaron] Move on. - [Jennifer] And instead, God got ahold of our hearts in a remarkable way and, I mean he brought the message to you first and then to me, but it's a choice. - [Aaron] Yeah. - [Jennifer] And are we gonna let our circumstances dictate that choice or are we gonna choose it in our hearts and move past the circumstances? Or even if we have to deal with the circumstances for the rest of our life, and that was the commitment we had to choose. There came this pivotal moment where, people who've read our books, they know what I'm talking about, but we're standing in church, Aaron, and you're sharing this heart that God has given you for our marriage to continue on regardless if anything changed. That is remarkable. And that saved us, that saved our marriage. - [Aaron] And here's the difference in the types of love. The love that the world has for itself, and the love that we are to have for our brothers and sisters and our spouse. The love that Christ gave to us was unconditional. The love that we try and walk in is often transactional. You do this, I'll do this. You give me this, I'll give you that. Oh you didn't do the thing, or you weren't the certain way? Then I'm not going to. Jesus it says, "Yet while we were still sinners died for us." So even when we were weakest, when we couldn't save ourselves, Christ died. Christ gave himself up for his bride. And this is the message that Christ gave me that day, reminding me, he's like, "Hey are you gonna love "your wife unconditionally, or transactionally? "Are you gonna love her regardless if she ever gives you "what you think you deserve, what you ought to have? "Or are you gonna love her like I did "when you could do nothing for me, "and I still died for you?" - [Jennifer] John 13 comes back to my mind like you said. Jesus says, "Love as I loved you." - [Aaron] And you know what this sincerity and intensity, this earnestness sounds very familiar to how Jesus said we would worship God. He says this to the woman at the well, in John 4:24, he says, "God is spirit "and those who worship him must worship "in spirit and truth." Spirit and truth. And this isn't talking about worshiping each other. But it's how we love each other, in spirit and in truth. - [Jennifer] It reminds me of the definition going back earlier to those genuine feelings. - [Aaron] Mm-hmm, it's not from pretense or deceit. It's no, I genuinely love you. I may not know how to do it well, but I'm going to default to love, I'm going to default to giving you the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to love you regardless if you give me what I deserve. And then in Matthew 22 verse 37-48 says this, "And he said to him, 'You shall love the lord your God "'with all your heart and with all your soul "'and with all your mind. "'This is there greatest and first commandment. "'And a second is like it, you shall love your neighbor "'as yourself, on these two commandments "'depend all the law and the prophets.'" - [Jennifer] I remember we read this verse to our kids and they got really confused, because we've taught them the 10 Commandments. - Yeah. - And they were like, "No no no, that's not the." - [Aaron] No, you have to honor your mom and dad. Like, yes. And what I explained to 'em is, and this is what Jesus says, he says, "Anyone who does these won't break any of the laws." Because when you love your neighbor, you're not gonna steal from them. When you love your neighbor, you're not gonna lie to them. When you love your neighbor, you're not gonna covet their things. You're gonna say praise God that you've given them those things, God. Praise God. They're gonna use 'em for you, I hope. We don't covet. When we love God we don't dishonor our parents. When you love your parents you're not gonna dishonor them. And so, that's the kind of love that we get to have for one another. And it's actually, it's one of the greatest commandments, to love God with all our heart, mind and soul and to love each other as ourselves. To love each other with that intensity. Okay, so we're getting up to the last part of this section of scripture and it's the most powerful one. It's actually the title of this episode. And it's the reason why Peter is commanding us to love each other in the first place. It's the reason why he's saying to do these things, it's the reason why he gave us the mindset of hey, the end of all things is at hand, be this way, love this way. So before I move on to this next portion of this scripture, I'm gonna read the whole scripture again. It's 1 Peter 4:7-11. "The end of all things is at hand, "therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded "for the sake of your prayers. "Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, "since love covers a multitude of sins." Okay, so here's the-- - You slowed down there at the end Aaron, - I know it's, - [Jennifer] Is that important? - [Aaron] Well, it's the most powerful section of this scripture, I believe. And what's amazing about this is it's the opportunity that believers have to love like Christ. What did Christ's love do? - [Jennifer] Saved us. - [Aaron] It covered us. We've just been teaching the kids through Adam and Eve, the story of Adam and Eve and how they were to, God told that surely on the day that you eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you will die. And guess what. - [Jennifer] Well the kids asked the question, - They're like, - But they didn't die! - [Aaron] Yeah, they didn't die. Here's what's amazing is something died instead. They covered themselves with fig leaves, God covered them in skins. So an animal had to die. So even then, way back in the beginning, in the very first people, God showed his redemption plan. That he was gonna substitute the death that we deserve for another. And so it was a picture right then and there of what Christ was gonna do. And this is what the believer gets to do. This is the remarkable love that the world's gonna see and be like, whoa, those people are God's, Christ's disciples, because Christ died for them, and look how they love each other. - [Jennifer] They wouldn't be able to do it without him. - [Aaron] Yeah, and so love covers a multitude of sins. So here's a question, I taught this at church and I asked this question, and it was hard for me to get it out without crying. But I said, "Who doesn't want their sins covered?" I said, "Raise your hand." How many hands do you think went up? None. So I ask the listener, do you want your sins covered? Do you thank God that his son Jesus and the blood that he shed covers your sins completely? That you are made white as snow? That you are clean before God? Okay, so if we can answer that question with "Yes, praise God," then our love should do the same. Our love has that same power. I personally love the fact that God no longer sees my sin. I personally love that who I was before Christ is now dead and buried. But, what we often do is we highlight other people's sins. And what it does is it raises us up and puts them down. Oh so-and-so, I can't believe they would treat me that way. You can't believe it? I mean how else do we deserve to be treated, really? We deserve hell. That's what the human state deserves. - [Jennifer] There's other times in marriage that we hold their sin against them. - [Aaron] Absolutely, yeah. - [Jennifer] So, whether it's for ammunition later, or maybe you're not intentionally thinking that, but all the sudden it comes up again, and you haven't covered their sin in love. You've been hanging on to it out of bitterness and anger, and you're gonna spew it out back in their face to make them feel a certain way. - [Aaron] Or waiting for them to trip up and it makes you feel better, because as long as their sin is greater than your sin then you're not a sinner. That's like the logic we use. I know that we struggled with this. You believed because I struggled with certain things you didn't even wanna see your own sin. Things that you were dealing with, your own pride, your own bitterness, your own angers, 'cause I was the sinner in the relationship. I was the one that needed to repent, I was the one that needed to change. And I did, I mean it's not like I didn't. But we do that, we look, we long for the sin in others. Oh, since they're that way, I can be this way. Rather than wanting to cover those sins. Rather than wanting to overlook them and remind those people of who they are in Christ, without pretense, without this idea of like, I'm gonna point this out, because I wanna hurt them. Or I wanna feel better. - [Jennifer] I think just kind of glancing back over those first few years of marriage, something else that I've struggled with is holding on to the sins that you struggled with even after saying I forgive you or trying to make up and resolve things. Because I had this belief about you that you were gonna fail me. So I was building a case, right? - [Aaron] You were waiting for me to, yeah. - [Jennifer] The next time you messed up, I go, "See, this is the type of person that you are." And I held up a mirror to show you your sin instead of pointing you to God and saying, "But he's redeemed you." You know what I mean? I didn't give you-- - Why you acting like this? God's redeemed you. - I didn't give you the positive message, because I truly cared about restoration at that point I was looking for a case in order to get out. To leave, to say, "You're this way, and I can't handle it." - [Aaron] Yeah. And that leads me to this question, do we see our spouse's sins against us as special or less deserving of forgiveness and grace? Do we see the sins and shortcomings of others towards us as less deserving, as special? Yeah, yeah, I've done things, I get it, God forgives me, but what they've done? No, what they've done is not forgivable. What they've done is, you can't tell me to love that person. Well, you know what, I don't. I'm not telling you anything. God says it, okay? When you give that word picture, 'cause I think it perfectly sums up this idea of when we love the way Christ loves, what it does. - [Jennifer] Well, I was just thinking about this idea of covering a multitude of sins by our love, the word picture that I got in my mind to help me understand that is a blanket and it's function. When you think about a blanket and being wrapped up and curled up on the couch with it, it provides warmth and comfort and padding and it consumes you. - It protects you. - [Jennifer] It protects you, it's just all around you and it was a really beautiful picture for me to understand how God covers us. Kinda like even as you said, going back to Adam and Eve, how he covered them, ya know? - [Aaron] And then the picture I got, and the Bible even uses it, says that our sins are made white as snow. And we live in a place that snows. And you see all the landscape, there's all the colors, the grass, the concrete, the trees, the houses. - [Jennifer] Pretty soon everything starts to fade away. - [Aaron] It snows and guess what. Everything's the same color. - Everything's white. - Everything's white. And beautiful and it could be on the dirtiest, muddiest area, and it's a beautiful white field. And that's what Christ's blood does is it covers us. And out of our thankfulness for that, we get to love others the same way. And this isn't an overlooking of sin, this isn't a pretending sin hasn't happened. And I'll talk about that in a second. But it's the way we love that no one, no one's sin is special that doesn't deserve our forgiveness, because what we've done is so worthy of punishment. The littlest sin we've done is detrimental to our own nature. And Christ has forgiven that in us. And I was reading in Leviticus this morning, and it was talking about all of the sacrifices and all the atonements and the priest is supposed to do this and all, it was so weird, I'm reading, I was like, "I wanna watch a video on this." So I watched the Bible Project's video on atonement. - [Jennifer] Oh they're good. - [Aaron] Yeah, it was good. And I almost started crying in Starbucks, 'cause I go to Starbucks after the gym, watching it because it was explaining how the atonement was a replacement and it was talking about the two types of evil, it was the sin against your brother or God. And it washes that away. But the other thing is the broken relationship aspect. Let's say you stole something, you paid it back, right? But there's also now distrust and fear that's in the relationship. And so that has to be atoned for as well. And so there's this picture of the priest sprinkling blood over the temple and the Tent of Meeting, right? And it showed this picture of, there was all this black looking weeds on the ground, and every time the blood hit the ground it turned to normal. And it said the blood also brought us into a safe relationship and a love relationship. And that's what this love does when it's covering. It's not just pretending things didn't happen, it's actually mending relationships so that we can walk with people not in fear, not in angst or anxiety, but we can actually walk with people in freedom and in love and in purity. That's what this does. And I wanted to share that 'cause it literally almost made me cry when I was thinking what God's done for me, and how he's, he didn't just fix the offense, he also fixed the relationship that was broken because of the offense. - [Jennifer] It's remarkable. - [Aaron] Yeah. So, I just wanna quickly, we talked through a lot of the scriptures, but I wanted to quickly say, this isn't to say we ignore sin, because that actually is unloving. Ignoring someone's sin is unloving. The loving thing to do is to address the sin, not out of our own vindication, trying to get something paid back to us, but out of, like you said, pointing them back to the truth of what God said about them. Or if they're not a believer, to repentance and salvation. So the loving way to, we deal with sin lovingly. And we come to people in truth and our position is of we wanna see the best for you. We want you to be in a right relationship with us. As Matthew 18 says, it's like you've won your brother. That's what you go to them for is for the purpose of winning your brother, not for winning the argument or winning the, oh see, all I want is an apology and we'll be good. No, you're going with the intention of hey, this is broken right now. We need to fix this. Love covering a multitude of sins isn't to say that the sins just disappear. It's to say that we deal with them the biblical way, the loving way for the purpose of reconciliation, 'cause that is the ministry we've been given is reconciliation. - [Jennifer] And we do this for people because we desire the same reciprocation, right? Of love? - I want it. - [Jennifer] I want people to overlook and cover the sins that I've committed, even the slightest or smallest, there's no degree. It doesn't matter. If I'm imperfect, I want someone to love me still. And I think that's important to remember, especially in marriage. - [Aaron] So I hope that bit of scripture encourages you in your walk. As usual we pray before signing off, so we're gonna pray. Dear lord, we lift up our hearts to you right now and ask that you would make us a people who love others earnestly. Holy spirit direct our hearts and remind us of your word. We pray we would above all things, love others. We pray we would love our spouse, our children, our friends and those who are in our life. May your love pour out of us. May your love pouring out of us transform our marriages. We pray others would be impacted by the love we share. We pray we'd be able to love so deeply that it covers a multitude of sin. We pray that instead of shame or guilt, people would feel undoubtedly loved by us and by you. We pray for your word to be fulfilled through our choices to walk in love and that your will would be done. In Jesus name, amen. Hey thanks for joining us for this episode. We pray it blessed you, of course. And don't forget to join the Parenting Prayer Challenge. That's parentingprayerchallenge.com It's completely free and we pray it blesses you. See you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? If you did, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Also, if you're interested, you can find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com, and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

Zach has the pleasure of sitting down to chat with Dr. Janice Gassam, Ph.D. in an episode themed around discussing emotional labor. She and Zach touch on the concept of self-care, and Dr. Gassam shares a few ways she believes that organizations, aspirational allies, and leaders can help ease the emotional labor lift for black and brown folks in majority-white spaces.Connect with Janice on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram.Check out her articles on Forbes!Visit our website.TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and yes, we're here. We're back. We're having conversations, you know, that amplify the voices of black and brown people at work, and we do that through what? Now, I'm talking to y'all like this is a live podcast, but this is the part where you would say "by having authentic available transparent conversations with black and brown educators, executives, entrepreneurs, influencers, creatives, activists, and non-melanated or lower-melanted allies," right? People who are advocates of inclusive, diverse, and equitable spaces, and so we do that, right? Like, we have these conversations--honestly, I feel like every time we come on here we have a great guest, and today, today is no different. Today we have Dr. Janice Gassam. Now, listen, Dr. Gassam is a diversity and inclusion consultant and founder of BWG Business Solutions LLC, a company focused on creating strategies to foster an equitable workplace. Gassam is a professor at the Sacred Heart University, teaching courses in diversity and inclusion, performance management, data analytics, and employee engagement. Now, look, let me just go ahead and give y'all some stats, okay? Just real quick so y'all know, 'cause, you know, this is the thing. You know, we're gonna talk about this in the interviewer, but sometimes, you know, folks kind of look at these platforms--and Living Corporate is fairly unique, but they look at this stuff like, "Oh, this is just, you know, passionate stuff," quote-unquote, and it gets dismissed. No, no, no. Dr. Gassam has bonafides, okay? So she has a Ph.D. in organizational psychology, a TedX speaker, and she's authored over 100--listen, yo, 100. 100. Hold on, they're not hearing me. ONE HUNDRED articles. Now, you might say, "Articles on what? Articles on Lipstick Alley?" No. "Articles on Shade Room?" No. Articles on Forbes, what you talking about? [Flex bomb sfx] Okay? She's out here. She's making moves, okay? And listen, she has a competent communicator certificate from Toastmasters International. So not the local spot, okay? Catalyst certification in unconscious bias awareness, has spoken for Yale, H&M, and various other conferences and universities, and she's taught undergraduate and graduate courses in employee engagement, performance management, diversity and inclusion, amongst others. Dr. Gassam, how are you doing? Like, I just gotta--hold on, I gotta at least give you a cheer or something. [applause sfx]Janice: [laughs] Thank you so much, Zach. That was a really nice intro. You made me sound so important, but thank you so much for having me, and it's a pleasure to be here, and I'm really excited to get into this conversation. How are you today?Zach: You know what? I'm doing really, really well. I'm in New Orleans. My cousin-in-law is getting married.Janice: Congraulations. That's fun.Zach: Absolutely.Janice: Are you gonna go to Cafe Du Monde?Zach: Ooh, I might. I may.Janice: Yeah, you gotta have--you gotta. I think it's 24 hours, but the lines are usually pretty long. But if you have a chance, if you're there for a little bit of a time, that would be fun. Wow, that sounds really nice.Zach: It should be great, you know? And this is the challenge, right? So when you get older--so I'm just now hitting 30, right? So you get older and, you know, you can't just kind of eat and do some of the things that, you know... your body, your body sends you a memo later like, "Ayo, I know you tried to be cute earlier, but it ain't happening now. You've got an appointment now, so what's up? And now your knee hurting and you don't know why," right? But no, I'm doing great. How are you doing? What do you got going on these days?Janice: I'm doing good. I aim for seven hours of sleep, seven to eight hours, so I got my seven hours. Today I have to do--I'm writing some articles. I did some Forbes interviews, so I have to just transcribe them, and then I have grading of course. So that should be--should keep me pretty busy.Zach: Okay. Okay, all right. Now, look, it can't just slay by itself. You gotta put in the work, and you're doing it, so we appreciate you. So thank you.Janice: Thank you so much.Zach: No, no doubt. So look, let's get into it. You've established a deep brand in diversity, equity, and inclusion. Your profile--at what point in your life did you realize that this was the work that you wanted to do and why? Like, what led you to come to this point and create this brand for yourself?Janice: Well, I guess sometimes people ask me this question, and I think it's a combination of the fact that I come from a--my parents come from Cameroon, which is a West African country, so I--throughout growing up I kind of grappled with not being Cameroonian enough, you know? Because I don't speak the language, I don't cook Cameroonian food, and I didn't really know a lot about the culture growing up because I was born and raised here in America. So I think that that combination of the different culture, as well as, you know, growing up in predominantly white neighborhoods and going to predominantly white schools and also just recognizing my blackness, it's almost like--DuBois talked about, in "The Souls of Black Folks," a double consciousness that black people in America experience where it's kind of like they have to grapple with their own blackness as well as being a black person in a white America, and I think it was, like, a triple consciousness. So trying to figure out where--you know, where I fit in the black sort of scope as well as, you know, trying to assimilate to white America, and I did a lot of that in school, you know, so that I would be accepted and then also embracing my culture and being true to my culture and that aspect of my background. So I think that that combination always made me really interested in diversity and inclusion. In 2011 I started a YouTube channel where I talked primarily on race and quote-unquote black issues and things that I felt were relevant to the black community, and I've kind of scaled back, and I haven't made a video probably in six or seven months, but I still, you know, post videos on there here and there, and I was able to cultivate a pretty loyal and strong audience. I had about 20,000 subscribers on that channel, but-- [ow sfx] I actually moved my focus to corporate diversity and inclusion because I saw that there were holes in the system when I would work in different companies. I noticed certain things. So I guess my focus moved from sort of these issues that are relevant to black America to "How do I fix these issues in corporate America?" Zach: And it's just such critical work. First of all, let me take a step back. So I think it's interesting when you think about, like, just black identity, underrepresented identity, and just all of the nuance of that, just of your own identity period. Like, let's just--not talking about within the context of any other social framework, but you have yourself, your own lived experience, which is complex, and then you're placing that within a context of being, like, in a white majority, and then--I don't know. It's just a lot, and I wonder--and it kind of leads me to my next question. When you talk about, like--when we talk about this space in diversity and inclusion and we talk about really kind of taking these conversations that black America is having--and I'm not trying to exclude other non-white spaces, but I'ma speak to black America because that's the experience that I live in. So historically over the past, I don't know, what, 100 and something odd years, like, we've had thought leaders talk about and have these internal conversations or in-house conversations about what it means to be black, and then of course we've had--you know, we're knocking on the door today, but there have been people who knocked on the door before us having these conversations and bringing these discussions to light. I guess my question is, as I look at your profile, do you ever see or feel a sense of being in, like, two worlds at once? And these two worlds that I'm talking about is one I'm seeing, like, a bit of--I'm seeing, like, one camp when it comes to this corporate D&I space, this corporatized D&I space that is very heady. It's very academic, and it's largely white and institutionalized a bit. And then there's this other group that's continuing to grow and build that is more activist in its function and more driven and founded by themes of justice, and also driven by themes of lived experience. When I look at your profile, and even what you just shared about you being a first-generation American and you being a first-generation professional, like, a first-generation in a variety of ways, but also having this academic background, do you see yourself straddling both of these worlds? Do you see--I mean, I'm kind of making an assumption that you even agree with my analysis of, like, corporate D&I. I'm just curious about, like, how do you see yourself as you operate in this space?Janice: No, absolutely. I have a close friend who, you know, I've been doing these diversity dinner dialogues in New York City, which is just, like, a free workshop where anyone who has an interest in diversity and inclusion can come. You know, we talk about a specific topic. Papa John's sponsors it, and in doing that I actually got to know a girl who has become one of my close friends. Her name is Donna. She's getting her Ph.D. in psychology, but her dissertation focuses on corporate diversity training, and she's looking specifically at how receptive people are when the trainer is not a diverse person, so is a white person or seemingly a white person. And going back to your point, I do agree. I think that unfortunately, any time you're talking about diversity, equity and inclusion, I think people are more receptive to the message when it comes from a white person. That's just unfortunately, you know, what it is. If I'm talking about, or you're talking about your lived experience, I think that people put more stock in when a white person says those things or finally realizes that there are inequities that are taking place. I do commend--not to take anything away from white people who are in this space who are using their privilege to amplify the voices of people of color, but I just think it's something that's important to note, that in this space I do think that there is sort of, like, a hierarchy, and I think that, you know, unfortunately black people are at the bottom of that hierarchy, and I think that when it comes to issues that are relevant, specifically to black people and people of color, those get prioritized last, and I think that that's unfortunate. People don't understand that you can be a marginalized group but still be racist. So I think that it's important to understand those sorts of things. I don't know, I guess, what the solution is, but it's just something that I've noticed.Zach: No, straight up. And it's interesting too. So your point around, like, hierarchy, 'cause even as I talk to other diversity, equity and inclusion professionals, right? Like, something that people will jump out [?] any time we have these conversations. It's almost like a point of pride or, like, particular insight when people say something like, you know, "Diversity and inclusion just isn't about ethnicity and race," and I'm like, "Well, wait... okay, it's not, you're right. Can we also acknowledge that ethnicity and race have played a critical part in, like, America's formation and policy structure and even today. I'm not saying that the other diversity [?] don't exist, but it's like people are so excited to, like, get away from that and then talk about "It's about diversity of education, and geography, and hair color," and--Janice: [laughing] "Diversity of thought."Zach: My gosh, diversity of thought. You know, I keep--you know, look, the government, they made--I'm serious, they made crack and diversity of thought in the same lab. They did. It's crazy. It's nuts.Janice: Right? That's a great way to put it, yeah. I think it's really easy to, like, divert the conversation, and that's why I think I like to do these diversity dinners and focus specifically on an issue, because I think when you're talking about, for example, allyship, allyship, that conversation--people think of allies more so as allies in that LGBTQIA+ community, but any marginalized group needs allies, and I think that when you don't focus specifically on race or ethnicity and you bring up the diversity conversation, I think people like to divert it and say, "Well, you know, you also have to be inclusive to this group and that group and that group," and I totally agree and I understand that, but I think that there are very unique challenges that people of color, and particularly black people, in this country face in that the main way that people are able to see that we are black is our skin color, you know? If you're part of a marginalized group where your identity is invisible, I do think that your experiences are vastly different from an individual like me or like you who our skin color is apparent to anyone that looks at us, and I don't think that it's--you know, I guess I'm not the type of person that likes to say who is struggling the most or likes to play the oppression politics, but I do think that that is an important point that needs to be acknowledged. Just because you're part of a marginalized group doesn't mean that our experiences are the same, you know? And I think that sometimes people like to say, "Well, look, I'm oppressed too. I have this particular invisible identity," and it's like--we might have similar experiences, but we also have vastly different experiences, and I think that sometimes that's overlooked. Even when I come in and do these corporate workshops related to diversity, I am always encouraged to not focus on race. And I recently had a consultation--so when people reach out to me to do a workshop, they'll schedule a call and then kind of figure out what I'm about, what topics I can speak to for their corporate audience, and I was specifically told recently to not victimize people in the workshop. So, you know, people don't want to be victimized. People don't want to feel like the finger is pointed at them. And sometimes people don't really want to directly address race, and I recognize and understand that. Before I was kind of, like--I didn't really quite understand that, but I know that, you know, when you come into a room and say to somebody, "Because you're part of this race, you have privilege, and your people have systematically and systemically oppressed," you know, based on the history. People shut down, and there's resistance, so it's almost like you kind of have to--I don't have any kids, but I know that sometimes when you have kids and you don't want to eat the food or take the medicine, you can kind of put sugar around it with the medicine and give that to them. So it's almost [?] diversity and inclusion. You have to give the sugar with the hard, I guess, lessons and the hard realities, because people get very defensive.Zach: And so then--so let's talk about that a little bit more. You shared the idea that folks will tell you, "Hey, just don't talk about it." Like, how do those requests come about? How do they frame it?Janice: Sometimes they're very great, [laughs] and other times it's more subtle, where I give them a list of topics--and of course, you know, I've been on YouTube since 2011 just talking in front of my camera about quote-unquote black issues and how--you know, racial dynamics, so it's a topic I feel very passionately about, but when I give them my list of topics that range from, you know, micro-aggressions to how to have conversations about race in the workplace to how to get the ROI of your diversity programs to emotional intelligence, what I've noticed is typically people like me to talk about emotional intelligence versus--and I think emotional intelligence is definitely an important topic, but it's not something that's difficult to digest, you know? It's not something that's gonna make people feel uncomfortable. So it's kind of like, "These are my lists of topics," and just in choosing the topics, you know, they'll reach out to me and say, "Could you do a talk on this?" or "Could you do a workshop on this?" And it's never been some of those more difficult-to-swallow concepts like race, because--and I understand, you know, you want your audience to be receptive to it, and unfortunately people really aren't receptive to conversations about race unless it's a white person giving it. A good example of that is--I showed my students the Chelsea Handler documentary that just came out on white privilege. I think that's what it's called, "Me and My White Privilege" or something like that. [Editor's note: it's "Hello Privilege. It's Me, Chelsea"] So I showed it to them. There was a particular clip where Chelsea interviewed some conservative women from Orange County, California, and they were saying people of color get privileges like school admissions, like jobs. They were referring to this myth that affirmative action is reverse racism. And so, you know, I showed them that clip, and then I spoke to how all of the things that were said in that clip were just factually incorrect, and affirmative action wasn't created to give unfair advantages to people of color and women who are not qualified, and also white women benefit the most from affirmative action. So I think that just watching that whole documentary, the reception has been interesting, because I think if someone like Kevin Hart or Dave Chappelle or, you know, any other comedian did a documentary on race, I don't think it would have gotten the same reception as Chelsea Handler's documentary, and I think that that's unfortunate.Zach: It's interesting too, because I was having a conversation with some majority folks, right? And they were talking about the documentary, and they said, "Well, you know, I don't know. Part of me is like, you know, 'Is this just another schtick?' Like, 'Is she even really being serious and authentic,' right? Like, how honest is this really?'" But then also there were people who watched it and really, you know, thought it was just groundbreaking and courageous and innovative and all of these other words. [laughing]Janice: It's interesting. I thought it was--it was just interesting. I think that when she was speaking with the women in that particular scene who were saying these things, she didn't really dispel what they were saying. They were like, "Well, you know, everyone has privilege, and it's not just white people," and Chelsea wasn't--I think she could have been more direct with dispelling their myths, and it's just incorrect to say that black people are getting--people of color are being treated, you know, better than white people in this country, 'cause that's just not true.Zach: That's just factually false.Janice: [?] You look at the rate of arrests. You look at who gets jailed, the amount of time that's given. If you just look at our criminal justice system, it's so apparent. You know, and what is her name? I'm forgetting the author's name, but she specifically talks about looking at the demographics of people who were pulled over and arrested driving on the New Jersey turnpike where they did this extensive study, and they found that, of course, the majority of those people were black and brown men. So just, like, it's obvious that those women are living in, like, their own delusion, and I think that maybe if I was sort of encapsulated in my own white America and I didn't interact--'cause obviously I don't interact really with anyone of color--I would probably have those same falsehoods as well, and one thing that I try to remind myself is that I can't really fault white people for not caring about certain issues because, in their minds, they think that it's not relevant to them. So we're--you know, humans are self-motivated, and we focus on things that we think will impact us. I think the fallacy is thinking that it doesn't affect them, because if Trump is spewing this rhetoric, or if our politicians are doing something that negatively impacts [one group?] people, ultimately that's gonna impact you in other ways. So I think that, like, there's this false idea that diversity and inclusion doesn't impact you or you're not--you don't have to be involved in the conversation, but I think that--you know, that famous quote that somebody said where it's like, "If one group is oppressed, we're all oppressed." You know, "If one group is not free, none of us are free." So I think that it's that. It's just that these women in that clip didn't understand how, like, we're all interconnected.Zach: No, you're absolutely right, and there's multiple points of evidence that we can look at to talk about just, like, disparity and inequity and disparate treatment for black and brown people juxtaposed to white folks, right? So you have--of course you have prison, just the criminal justice system. You also have, like, health care and treatment. You have access to public transportation. You have just general public school education. You have access to food. So just, like, neighborhoods that are--you know, you have food deserts. Like, those are real things, and they're impacted by race. So 100%. So, Janice, diversity, equity and inclusion is broad, and you talked about earlier that you cover a variety of things. You speak on a variety of things. Can we zoom in on a topic really quick? Let's talk about the emotional labor of black and brown DEI professionals, particularly women, in this, like, diversity, equity, and inclusion space, right? Like, I'd really like to talk about that. Are you down?Janice: Yeah, sure.Zach: Cool. So in the history of the show, you know, I've brought up the concept of emotional labor, but I've just said it. Like, I'll be like, "You know, people don't really consider the emotional labor." And I've talked about it with colleagues at my job. I've talked about it with friends. But, like, can we--but I don't think I've ever taken the time to really explain what emotional labor is, like, as a concept. Would you mind talking a little bit about what you believe--like, what is your definition of emotional labor?Janice: Absolutely. So it's funny you ask this, because at the recent diversity dinner dialogue I had this week there was a diversity professional. He works at a large consulting firm, and he asked what we--he posed the question to everyone who was there, and he said "What do you do for self-care?" Because D&I work is very exhausting, so what do you do as self-care? And, you know, one thing that I realized is that I never really escape it, because I feel, like you said, it's our lived experience, so any time I--and I don't watch TV, but when I open my phone to go onto Instagram, you know, the people that I follow are a lot of these--like, Shaun King, and, like, a lot of these, the [?] show. So people who report on news that's related to black people. So sometimes I just find myself scrolling past stuff, because--especially Shaun King stuff--I don't always have the bandwidth for it, and if I've had a long day and I'm just not in the mood for my day to be ruined, I have to scroll past stuff. But also, like, for me, I think fellowship is a really important part of just dealing with the emotional labor of it. I think fellowship with my fellow black and brown people, it just helps me, 'cause it's almost like when you're around people--when you're around the majority, it's almost like--I saw a picture where someone had, like, a mask on--a black person, it's like when they go into corporate America you put your mask on, and then when you get home you take your mask off. So I feel like when you're around your friends you're free to take the mask off and just, you know, explain what you're going through at work, and my friends and I, we talk a lot about our work experiences, and I--you know, my experience is a little different since I'm not necessarily in corporate America. I'm in academia and then I do consulting. And academia has its same politics, but it's a little bit different, but listening to--you know, I have a close friend who works at Uber, and just listening to all of my different friends' experiences, I'm just like, "Wow. This is really, really interesting," and, I mean, in a weird way, the fellowship helps me to sort of cope with some of these--the work that I do. So that really helps me. And also--it sounds weird, but I'm really big with sleep. [laughs] I always try to get my 7-8 hours, 'cause I think that--and there's research that indicates that when we're under stress, when we're not getting enough rest, we're sick, we're more likely to--our thinking isn't as sharp and as crisp, and interestingly people are more likely to fall into discriminatory behaviors when they're sleep-deprived. So I always try to make sure that I'm in--or, you know, as much as I can that I'm getting enough sleep, I'm getting enough rest, I'm going to the gym, even when I don't feel like going, to make sure that I'm treating my body as well, because there is this idea that, you know, in our society, you're not productive unless you're busy, and I really try to emphasize the importance of sleep and rest, especially when you're doing something as taxing as diversity and inclusion work or just being a person of color in a workplace that--you know, even if your work doesn't relate to diversity and inclusion, that's exhausting in itself. So I think that those are really important for me, sometimes just scrolling past those pages and those things that will bring me more stress, getting rest, and then just the fellowship.Zach: And so then do you think--do you think that the concept of emotional labor is explored enough, like, within, like, diversity and inclusion, and then also, like, as a concept when we talk to companies and clients and other organizations?Janice: I don't. I don't think that it's--and it doesn't really happen as much to me. Sometimes when I'm on a plane and I'm reading a certain book, someone might see something and comment, but I've seen sometimes where D&I professionals are wearing a shirt that makes a really bold statement and someone makes a comment about the shirt, and it's like--it's exhausting because sometimes you're out and you don't want to have a conversation about diversity and inclusion, but somehow it gets to that conversation. So I think that people just assume that because this is something you do for a living or you enjoy doing that you want to talk about it 24/7, and that's not always the case. So I think that it's not something that's explored enough and in enough detail.Zach: And so then, like, you know, what does fatigue look like? Like, you've been in this space for a while. Like, at what points do you realize, like, "Hey, I really need to," you know, engage in what is restorative for you. So you taking a break, you getting off social media, you sleeping a little bit more. Like, what are the signs of fatigue for you personally?Janice: I think when I have an opportunity that's presented to me, and instead of being excited I just--I'm already anticipating how tired I will be after the opportunity, that's a good indication that maybe I need to sort of slow down. And yeah, I think that would be the main thing for me. Sometimes people will reach out and say, "Oh, can you do this?" And it's an amazing opportunity, but I'm just like, "Oh, I have so much on my plate," so I can't--in my mind I'm like, "I can [?] do it," you know? And it's just--for me it's just sometimes I need to learn, one thing I need to learn is--Shonda Rhimes has a book called The Year of Yes. I need a Year of No, and I need to just--sometimes it's really powerful to just say no to things that you know will leave you drained and overwhelmed, even if you feel like it's for a good cause or it's for the greater good or it will benefit the person or the group that is getting the service. I think sometimes just saying no or just saying "No, not right now," is really helpful for me. So that's an indicator to me of when I've kind of, like, reached my point of exhaustion.Zach: That's just a really good point. I think, especially when you talk about these types of spaces, right, you know, people will reach out to you for a variety of things, and 99.9% of them are gonna be good, but--and so because they're genuinely good things, it's hard to say no, but it's like, "Man, I'm only one person." Right? Like, I don't have an inexhaustible amount of energy. I have to create some space for myself. Let's talk about this, and I really want to get back to something that you said earlier in the conversation. So you said sometimes people reach out to you asking you to talk about specific things. Are there ever any moments where you consider your profile, right? When you consider, like, the work that you've done in academia as well as your personal life and your journey and your lived experience? Do you ever battle feelings or insecurities around being tokenized?Janice: I don't. It's interesting. That's not something I--I think that even if you're choosing me for this particular role or you're asking me to do this because you want to check some boxes, I'm still gonna achieve the ultimate goal. So I think that I don't really look at the vehicle. I just look at, you know, "Am I able to accomplish or achieve this goal?" I recognize and understand that there is a possibility that maybe the powers that be saw what I look like and said, "Okay, we need this person so we look like we're being diverse and inclusive," but ultimately getting the opportunity to sort of try to push the needle and move the needle forward when it comes to building a more inclusive culture is fine with me. So it doesn't matter to me if the goal was to check some boxes, because I'm still gonna go in there and do what I really need to do and what I want to do. So I try not to think about that, because I think for me, if I started thinking about that, it would be, like, a never-ending rabbit hole of, like, "Are they really choosing me for my credentials, or did they see that I'm a black female and they want to check some boxes?" So I try not to think like that, because ultimately I'm like, "I'm gonna come in here and do what I'm supposed to do," and I try to just come in and do an amazing job so that even if they were trying to--even if the purpose was just to check the boxes, they'll see, like, what a strong, you know, worker I am, or what a strong consultant I am, and they'll understand that they made the right decision.Zach: I hear that, and what I'm taking away from that also is just, like, you know, people can choose you for whatever motivations they have. It's about how you decide to show up in that moment, right? Janice: Exactly.Zach: Yeah. It's interesting, you know? Like, transparently, I have those--it's something I struggle with, right? I struggle with the idea of "Man, like, why would you choose me?" But then, to your point, I know for me, like, I have a fairly specific brand, so when I show up, like, there's a story that I'm gonna tell. There's a way that I'm going to move. There's a way that I'm going to work. And, you know, we'll see how comfortable you are with that, and if you're not comfortable with that and you decide you want something else then, you know, that's fine too, but I have to show up and deliver on who I am and then, you know, let the chips fall where they may after that. Okay, so we're talking about emotional labor. We're talking about self-care and kind of getting those energies back. I think something that's, like, really understated as well at work for diversity and inclusion professionals, and just black and brown people in general, right? So even if you're not explicitly in diversity and inclusion, like, a space, but just at work, is the emotional labor of just being other in majority-white spaces, right? So, like, I'm curious, what are ways that you believe that organizations and that aspirational allies as well as just leaders can help ease the emotional labor lift for black and brown folks in these spaces?Janice: I think it goes back to organizations really trying to make us feel included. In my university--and I teach in a business department [where] there's no other black females. There's other women of color, a few who are of Indian--one who's of Indian descent and one who is Chinese, but they're--we're, like, one of few, and then at the university, I don't know how many tenured black professors there are, but there are very, very few. So I think that one thing that organizations can do is just try to take additional steps to make people who are the only feel included. So I'll give you an example. I was working at a university in New York City that when I started they said that they needed more diversity and inclusion. They needed the faculty to look like the student body. And this is a public school in New York City. It's part of a large university system. So most of the students come from different backgrounds, you know? There's lots of black and brown students, and the professors just didn't reflect that. One student told me that I was the first--a black student told me that I was the first black professor he's ever had. So, you know, I got there and they said, "Oh, we really want diversity," and then they didn't do anything to make me feel included. It was like they [tired?] me and dropped me off. My office was in--and little micro-aggressive behaviors. I'm no longer there, but I was in the Psychology department at that university, but my office was in the English department. There was no name on my office. And even though I was visiting faculty--so it's kind of, like, not guaranteed that they'll renew your contract--I was teaching more than any other professor in that department. I was also teaching during the winter intersession. So normally you get, like, a month off. I was literally--like, I had a week and a half off, and then January 2nd or 3rd I had to--Zach: You were back at it. Wow.Janice: So, like, I think that the inclusion piece is so important, because companies just look at the diversity on the surface and say, "We don't need a diversity program. We have lots of black people. We have lots of people from Asia. We have lots of this and that," and it's like, "But do they feel included?" That's really the important part. So I think that where companies miss the mark is that inclusion piece. So the university that I'm at now, Sacred Heart University, I think that they've done an amazing job with making me feel included. Even though I'm one of the only, I'm frequently invited--you know, they always have, like, off-campus events for faculty members, and if someone's retiring they have these parties and all of that, and it's just like--the department chair will reach out and say, you know, "Janice, are you gonna come to this?" Or "Would you like to join this committee?" And I just feel like--last year was my first year working there full-time, and they were just so--all of the faculty members, on their own, would come by my office. I'm sure they're like, "Who is this?" I look younger than I am, so people think I'm in my 20s, and I'm 32. So people are like, "Who is this young black girl with these [fauxlocks?] sitting in the office? Like, what?" So they'll come up to me and just say, "Hey, how are you? What's your name?" They'll give me their card, they'll connect with me on LinkedIn, and that's not something that I experienced at this other university that I worked at. So I think that they really made me feel a sense of inclusion, even though I was the only. Literally it was, like, a line of professors [?] where my office used to be. I know I was the only black woman on that floor. I didn't see any other black women. So, you know, just making me feel--including me, inviting me to things, trying to just, you know, check on me. And just really quick, Ernst & Young did a study where they tried to measure belonging that people feel in the workplace. So they developed something called the Belonging Barometer, and what their research found--this was last year that it came out--so what their research found is that the #1 way to make employees feel a sense of belonging is frequent check-ups. So if you are a manager or you're another employee and you come to the office of someone and say, "Hey, how are you? How was your weekend?" And you do this frequently, that is the best way to make employees feel a sense of belonging. So I think that at my university, my colleagues do that a lot, and that's what really makes me feel like--even though I'm the only, they're really making me feel like I'm part of a family.Zach: So first of all, you know, thank you for sharing that. You know, I'm curious. When you were going through the experience at the previous institution, did any of it feel like you were being gaslit a little bit? Like, did you raise any of these concerns? Like, "Hey, you got me all the way over here in this other group," and "Hey, I don't have a name on my door." Like, did you raise any of those things?Janice: No, I didn't, unfortunately, and a part of me felt just so--and I'm sure many of us as people of color feel like this--I honestly was, like, grateful that I had a job, 'cause I hadn't finished my Ph.D. yet. I was grateful I had a job. I was earning more money than I had ever earned in my entire life. I graduated with my Ph.D. when I was 30, so I was literally--most of my life I was in school, so I was used to, you know, not having health insurance. You know, when I moved to New York, I didn't have health insurance. So, you know, all of these things. I was grateful to have benefits, grateful to have a job, grateful to have my own office. That was a new experience for me. So I guess I didn't say anything. Not I guess, I didn't say anything, just because I was so grateful for the opportunity that I was afraid if I pointed these inequities out that that opportunity would be taken away from me. So I know that many times people of color, black people in particular, are in positions where maybe you didn't think you would get this far, and you have opportunities to sort of speak up, but you're worried that, by speaking up, it could jeopardize your job or jeopardize your opportunity, and that's how I felt, so I didn't say anything. I knew that in my mind I wasn't gonna be at that university for a long period of time, so I think that's what kept me going. I was just like, "This is a stepping stone," and ultimately it was, and I left that--I was only there for a year, and they didn't renew my contract, probably because I didn't finish--I hadn't finished my Ph.D., but I knew that it was temporary. Zach: So it's such a real point, right? Because I know there's--I mean, it's for good reason, right? So, like, black and brown folks, we'll get into these positions and we're like--and it's more than we've ever had before. So, like, not comparing--not relative to anyone else, just our own journey. Like, this is a peak, right? Relative to what we've experienced. And so then we're like, "Okay, well, you know, I don't want to say anything because this almost seems too good to be true already, so I don't want to mess this up."Janice: Right, exactly. Imagine if you had a job at, like, Google. Google is--like, you know, who wouldn't want to work at Google? And you're being treated unfairly by your manager or by co-workers and you felt like, "I never imagined being at this company. Let me just keep my mouth [shut]." Which a lot of us do. We're just like, "Let me keep my mouth shut," but Google is a company that I want to be at for a while, so it's like, what do you do? Especially--the easy thing, and, you know, when I hear people giving advice as far as, like, how to advocate for yourself, sometimes I hear people saying, "Just quit," and I think that that's ultimately what's gonna have to happen, but for some people that's not an option. If you're the sole bread-winner in your family and many people are relying on you and you're feeding many mouths, I think quitting sounds nice, but it's not practical, especially if you don't have anything else lined up. You just have to figure out--and then it goes back to the self-care. Because you're experiencing so much stress at work, what are you doing outside of work to sort of mitigate the stress that you're experiencing? And for me, that was one of the hardest years of my life because I had just moved to Connecticut. I was teaching in New York City, so I was commuting--it's only an hour commute on the train, but I was commuting to New York City every single day, and I was also teaching in Long Island, because they were--you know, ultimately they were underpaying me, they were overworking me, and then to supplement that I was so--there was a point in time where I was teaching seven courses, which, you know, anyone who teaches at the university level knows, like, three courses per semester is, like--three or four is, like, a very full courseload. Seven is, like, next level. I was teaching on Saturdays. It was, like, insane, the amount of classes that I was teaching, but my form of self-care was, you know, I was going to the gym a lot, and I was just--you know, a lot of fellowship, meeting up with friends, because, you know, the reality of it was that they were severely--you know, moving from universities, Zach, I was able to increase my salary by $30,000. They were underpaying me, like, a ridiculous amount, you know? And when I brought it up--that's something I did bring up when I was hired. I was like, "Why does my contract say this amount?" And the department chair was like, "Oh, well, you're paid based on a scale." It was a public university. So they base it off your teaching experience, your credentials, and because I didn't have a Ph.D. blah blah blah blah blah. So, you know, I did try to advocate for myself in that sense, but it was just kind of like, "Sorry, this is what you're gonna get paid," and I was just like, "Okay. Well, to supplement this, I'm gonna work at these other universities to get what I think that I deserve." So it was--it was really difficult. I think it's easy to say quit, but for many people quitting is not an option. So I think really going into what you're doing for self-care when you're experiencing this stress is important, and then I think planning your exit strategy. So if it's Google, maybe you want to have a year or two years or three years on your resume, but you know the environment is toxic. I wouldn't say just leave. I would say get that on your resume and build as many connections there as you can, but plan your exit strategy and save up money. If you really think that you have to leave at some point in the near future and you don't know if you'll have a backup job, then just plan, save up money. Make sure you do what you can so that, you know, when that day comes you're ready and it's not just like you made the decision off of a whim.Zach: It's just so true, right? 'Cause I know--I've seen it, and honestly I've done it, right? Like, where I've been in, like, really toxic environments, and I just left, but I left on--I didn't leave on the terms I wanted to leave on, right? So I wasn't prepared, right? I didn't have the financial backing that I wanted to have. You know, I just wasn't in the place that I wanted to be, but I finally just left. And that happens a lot, especially with our generation, right? Like, millennials, you know? 'Cause we'll just kind of bottle--especially what I've seen from black and brown folks is we'll just kind of bottle it up until we can't take it anymore, and then we'll just--you know, we'll leave. We'll just blow up and just quit, right? And you're right, like, that's not a sustainable way to function. I think the other point that you called out is super true, and I think it just really speaks to the different lived experiences of different folks, right, is that you said "Just quit." Like, for me, I'm a big advocate--I'll tell people to quit, right? But it's easy for me to tell people to quit when I'm a black American, my mom--I'm not sending money to my mom, right? Like, I don't have--it's just me and my wife, and my wife works. So it's like, if I quit my job, #1: I know that I could get another job very quickly, and so I'm projecting that on other people. Like, "You're only responsible for yourself," but that's not true. Right? Like, that's just not true. You have people--like, I have a really good friend who she's paying her mom's mortgage, her mom's health care. She's sending money back to her family in Nigeria. Like, she's doing all of these things on her very modest salary, and it's a toxic work environment, but she can't just leave. Janice: Mm-hmm, yeah. You know, sometimes people comment on my social media and they're like, "Why are we trying to change these white institutions? They don't want us there. Why don't we just build our own institutions?" And I'm all for that, but I think the reality of it is every single black and brown person is not going to be working in a black and brown-led institution, so what are we doing for those, you know, people of color who are not in those black-owned businesses? How are we creating an environment for them where that is sustainable? So I think that that's also an important point to look at, just really how are we overcoming, because the reality of it is that's just not what it is right now. You know, every single person is not at a black-owned company.Zach: No, you're absolutely right. I know, like, even when Living Corporate started, right, like, a couple of critiques that we got early was "Why are you trying to teach people how to navigate these white spaces as opposed to trying to help people to build their own?" I'm like, "Okay, look. First of all, we can look at the history of America and we can see that there's been historical pushes that black and brown people--" Black folks, we've been creating our own things since antebellum, okay? So we've been building our own churches, our own fraternities, sororities, our own businesses, our own communities, and there's been a consistent whitelash against that. Now, that doesn't mean that we're gonna stop. We don't stop, and black businesses and entrepreneurship continues to grow. However, we also know because of historical inequity--it's just the way that white supremacy and patriarchy are set up--that those institutions will never be as big as Amazon. I won't say never, but it will be a long time before they're as big as an Amazon or a Google or even a Facebook, right? Like, that's just not the way it works, and so--I believe that underrepresented folks helped build this country. It is 100% reasonable and fair to have discussions about what does it look like for us to thrive here. None of these things would exist without us, so it is reasonable--I don't think it's one or the other. I think it's both and, but it's a fine and right discussion and pursuit on what does it look like to thrive in these spaces. Like you said earlier, like, everyone's not gonna be working at a black and brown place. Every black and brown person is not gonna be an entrepreneur, just like every white person isn't an entrepreneur. So, you know, most of us are gonna work for somebody, so waht does it look like when you work for somebody and likely--because again, we're in America--it's likely going to be a majority-owned space. What does it look like for you to be successful there?Janice: Absolutely, yeah. I think that that's--it falls on both, because I think that--and that's probably a whole 'nother conversation, because even marginalized groups hold negative views about their own identities, for example. Like, there's many negative stereotypes that black people ourselves perpetuate, and even if we're leading a company, we may have colorism issues, or we may be [?]. So there's, like--even if you're in a black-owned institution, white supremacy can still be rampant, and I think us understanding that is important too. 'Cause I get those comments sometimes where, you know, people are like, "Why are you trying to do this and do that?" And even with companies--you know, some people have asked me why I allowed or accepted a partnership with Papa John's when the CEO is obviously--the former CEO, I'm sorry, is probably racist, and I said, you know, "If this company is going to try to make amends and is going to try--" And, you know, they've done other initiatives where they're trying to really show that now they're focused on diversity and inclusion. I'm not gonna say no, and I'm not gonna say, "I'll never take your money." They've hired a black woman as their chief diversity officer. They've hired a Ghandian man as their chief branding officer. Shaq is now on their board of directors. The CEO is no longer on the board. So they've been doing things. You know, they donate to HBCUs. So different things that I'm like, "Okay, I can accept that they're trying to fix what it is." But I think that it's tough, because it's like, do we forgive companies where they have many egregious actions that the CEO has committed? Do we forgive them, or do we just move on and just cancel them? I think that that's an important question to think about.Zach: It is, right? But I guess here's my challenge with that. So first of all, like, when you're talking about getting that money from Papa John's, the only thing I was thinking about was [cha-ching sfx]. Like, listen. [laughs] This is my whole thing, right? So I don't think that, like, we really talk about, like, how capitalist America is, right? Like, you need money to survive. Like, you need money to do anything, and so, you know, if you want to say, "Okay, well, I'm not gonna take this money from Papa John's," okay, so are you gonna take this money from Johnson & Johnson? Are you gonna take this money from--[laughs] like, all of America was built on slavery and oppression and exploitation of black and brown people, and people of color as well. So, like, including Asian-Americans too. So, like, we wouldn't have any of this. So, like, if you wanted to, like, again--I don't like saying the term "slippery slope," but my whole thing is, for me, if you're going to give me the bag--if you give me the bag, as long as you know that I'm not gonna adjust my message and you're not asking me to adjust my message or expecting me to adjust my message, I'ma take the bag, right? Now, there are certain groups, you know, that I'm not taking the bag from. Like, I've had people--you know what? This is, like, breaking news. I haven't told anybody on Living Corporate this. So, you know, someone actually hit me up and wanted to get Candace Owens on here, and I said--Janice: Really?Zach: Yeah, and I said no.Janice: Wow. That's interesting.Zach: I said no. I said, "You big buggin'."Janice: [?] Living Corporate. Interesting. What are your thoughts on--I have my own thoughts [both laughing] on her. I watched her--did you watch the Revolt summit that she was [in?]Zach: I did. I did see her up there being loud and wrong.Janice: Yes, yeah. But one thing that I didn't like was I think when you bring people with opposing views, you have to allow them the opportunity to at least speak, even, like--and my husband disagrees with me. He's like, "She's lying. She's full of lies. Why even give her the opportunity or the platform?" And I'm like, "Well, that's why they brought her up there."Zach: They brought her up there though. So if you're gonna bring 'em up there, then you gotta let 'em talk.Janice: Yeah, and that's why--and my husband's like, "No, but she's just blatantly lying," and I'm just like, "Yeah, but they brought her up there to speak," and I think that--that's interesting. Did you tell the person no? Or did you say you'll think about it?Zach: Oh, no, no. I said "Hell nah." Like, off the top. [laughs] All the Southern in me came out, 'cause it was like, "No," right? Like, I'm not doing that.Janice: Yeah. That's interesting. I wonder what she would speak to, because as far as I know she's not in corporate America. She just, you know, does these talks, or she has her YouTube channel and she--but, you know, that's interesting. [laughs]Zach: So then the same person was like, "Well, I'm also friends with Ben Carson. Would you like to have him on?" I was like, "No." I said, "No," and I said, "No," because I was like, "Look, one, that association is not making any sense." Like, "We're not--it's not gonna be a conversation. It's gonna be me tearing down some old black man. That's not cool." Because I literally don't agree with anything he's doing. So I was like--but this is my thing. So, like, at that level, I'm like, "No. I'm not taking a bag from them." But, like, a Papa John's? Yes, I'll take a bag from Papa John's. Facebook? Yes, I'll take a bag from Facebook.Janice: Yeah. Yeah, because I think the difference between Ben Carson and Candace Owens and Papa John's is that--and even Kanye West if you want to think about it--I haven't really seen any of them be apologetic. They're just like, "This is who I am," and they're gonna go on as many platforms as we'll let them speak. So it seems like your audience I don't think would be receptive to that and would just be like, you know, "Zach, you're just trying to get them on to get more clicks."Zach: For the clout, exactly. Janice: Exactly, so I think that with Papa John's and some of these other companies, they realize they've made a mistake and they're, like, trying to fix it, and I think that that's what would make me--I don't know. It's tough. I don't think we should just cancel companies where the CEO says or does something that is, you know--Zach: You need the bag. I think that goes back to what I was saying at the top. Like, look, we live in a capitalistic society. Like, if someone goes, "Hey, I messed up, and this is what I'm trying to do, and I really want to get around--" Like, "I'm trying to make moves," and whatever whatever, and there's a bag out there for you to--like, if the former CEO of Papa John's wanted to come on here and let me talk to him and grill him about why he said what he said, his background, what he's doing now to actually create an impact, like, today, if we could have that conversation, like, an accountable, frank conversation, and what advice he would give to other white senior leaders and executives on how to drive and be more inclusive and be more aware of their own biases, anti-blackness, et cetera, if we could have that type of conversation, he's more than welcome to come on the show.Janice: Absolutely.Zach: You see what I'm saying? The current inclusion and diversity leader for Papa John's? Of course they're welcome to come on the show, but like you said, like, someone coming on just to be like, "Nah, I'm just gonna be loud, proud and wrong," it's like... no. That's not gonna work.Janice: Yeah, exactly. So I think that sometimes we feel like--you know, I don't ever feel like "Am I selling out?" But sometimes, you know, I'll get comments like that, where people are like, "Why are you focused on what people of color should do?" You know, I did an interview and I wrote an article about some mistakes that women of color make in tech, and somebody wrote me and said, "Why would the onus fall on the women of color in tech and not on the company?" And I said, "I've written many articles on what companies can do to be more inclusive, but I think it's also important to best position yourself to be successful." I've made mistakes in my career, and I've done things where I could have--you know, even as far as, like, branding myself. I've had a LinkedIn for years, and within the last two and a half years I've started to really get into LinkedIn, but I could've really been more active and gotten more opportunities from it. And there's been times when at work I've been antisocial and I didn't want to hang out with anyone that wasn't like me, and I think that that is problematic when you're trying to advance in your organization. Sometimes you have to go to those events, you know, mingle a little bit, smile and do whatever. And Minda Harts talked about this in her book "The Memo," about, like, the importance of sort of fraternizing with your colleagues and how that can help you when you're trying to advance. So I think that even as a woman of color in the workplace, I've made mistakes, so I think that's important to recognize and not just be like, "It's all the company's fault."Zach: No, you're absolutely right. And it's interesting, we've gotten the same type of feedback, right? But it's like--my whole thought is look, we're all grown. There's a certain level of agency that we have as professionals in our career, and yes, we're gonna talk about the systemic structural challenges. I think we would be doing--like, it's intellectually dishonest and insulting to not pair that--like, it's not either or, it's both and. And not equally on either side, right? Like, there are larger responsibilities that these organizations have to create inclusive and equitable and diverse spaces, and--and--and there's also responsibilities and just things that we can be aware of as underrepresented people in how to navigate these spaces, right? And it's not about respectability politics. It's not about anything that's asking you to sacrifice your dignity or your self-worth. It's about just you being knowledgeable, because there are things that people in the majority understand and they know in navigating work that we just literally don't know, and so it's about--that type of knowledge is incredible, and I know the article you're referencing that you wrote. But again, I think they go hand-in-hand. Look, this has been an incredible conversation, Janice. Before we let you go, any parting words or shout-outs?Janice: Well, I just hope that anyone listening to this can just look at what each of us can do in our lives to really deconstruct oppressive systems. So even if that's something as, like, retweeting or reposting something that--like, the stories of someone from a marginalized group. I think that's still moving the needle and amplifying their voice. So I try to do that as much as I can and just highlight people that deserve the shine and may not get the shine, because even in the D&I space there's a quote-unquote hierarchy, and I think certain people--you and I have discussed this--get a lot of shine while there's other people doing a lot of the ground work who aren't recognized as much. Not that you should do things for recognition, but I think that amplifying other people's voices is important. So yeah, that's pretty much it. Anyone who wants to discuss things more with me can just find me on Instagram. I'm @janicejnice, or add me on LinkedIn. I'm Janice Gassam on LinkedIn. We can chat more.Zach: Oh, my goodness. Well, first of all, you know we're gonna have all of your links as well as your Forbes profile so that people can check out all of your super dope articles, so we got you on that. Y'all, this has been Living Corporate, okay? So good conversation as always. We have the best guests. That's right, I'ma say it. We have the best guests. And, you know, we typically do a thing--we typically drop air horns, and if I remember we drop 'em at the top, but, you know, I forgot this time 'cause I got too excited 'cause we were just having this super dope conversation, so I'ma drop 'em right here--[air horns sfx]--just thank you very much. This has been a super cool conversation.Janice: Thank you so much, Zach. It's been a pleasure.Zach: No doubt. Listen, y'all. Living Corporate. Google us, right? You get on Google or--what's another, Yahoo? I don't know. I really just be on Google. This is not even an ad. [both laugh] But you get on Google or whatever your little search thing is and you type in Living Corporate, and you'll see us, man. We're out here. We're on Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, Instagram @LivingCorporate, and we have all the domains, right? So www.living-corporate.com, please say the dash. Livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.net, livingcorporate.tv, livingcorporate.org, livingcorporate.us. We've got all the livingcorporates, Janice, except for livingcorporate--like, all the way with no dash--dot com, 'cause Australia has that domain, but we got the rest of 'em.Janice: Oh!Zach: I know, right? They own this corporate housing thing, but if you go on the SEO, like, we hopping over them though. If you Google Living Corporate, like, we're hopping over them now, so we--I'm just saying, the brand is getting stronger. Let's see here. I think that's it, y'all. You've been listening to Zach, and I've been having a dope conversation with Dr. Janice Gassam, speaker, educator, mover, shaker, name taker, edge snatcher, writer. What else, Janice?Janice: System deconstructor.Zach: Yes! System deconstructor. Disruptor. Come on, bars. Let's go. All right, all right.Janice: An intentional inclusionist. [laughs]Zach: Ooh! Wait a second, intentional inclusionist? [Flex bomb sfx] Okay, okay, okay. 'Til next time, y'all. Peace.

Summary: Make S.M.A.R.T. Goals and tell your positive peer group your goals and have them give you feedback if your idea is S.M.A.R.T. Learn how you respond to rules/habits are you an upholder, questioner, rebel, or an obliger? https://simplepassivecashflow.com/2020-launch https://simplepassivecashflow.com/club/ https://simplepassivecashflow.com/goals/ https://simplepassivecashflow.com/hui3/ https://simplepassivecashflow.com/investorletter/Youtube link: https://youtu.be/l5CU288iUWkWebsite link: https://simplepassivecashflow.com/2020-launch/Start learning about real estate investing - SimplePassiveCashflow.com/startSubscribe to the Top-50 Investing Free Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/simple-passive-cashflow/id1118795347_________________________Top SimplePassiveCashflow Posts:This website has been going through daily improvements everyday since 2016. I admit things are a bit all over the place as I learn about these investments and wealth tactics. 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I've been doing this goals meeting for the past few years. And this is the 2020 version of it. If you guys are struggling to find a CPA or if your current one looks at you cross eyed when you tell them you're trying to save taxes and they see something lame, like invest in your 401k or Roth IRA, you probably need a new CPA and you guys need a referral, shoot me an email glanceable passive cash flow. Let me know what you're working with. That way I don't send you to the wrong one. Again, you guys can check this out on the YouTube channel, simple passive cash flows YouTube channel, and we're taking a little drawing in the YouTube channel where you guys subscribe, and once a quarter we'll try to pick a winner from there and we'll give them a prize What's up simple passive cash flow listeners wanted to announce the first multi day we mastermind in Hawaii will be holding it on my island of Oahu, Honolulu is on President's Day 2020. And that's February 14 to the 17th. And a2:22 reminder, Valentine's Day is the 14th.2:25 But we'll keep that evening for you. families and couples want to come on down for that we're actually encouraging spouses and families to come down. Because that's part of the whole experience. Getting to know other families and getting to know other committee members is gonna be a big part of this. So what to expect structured networking and masterminding with existing CWI investors and other affluent investors. We're going to create the time in the environment to build real relationships that you can take forward forever For you, a students out there will do even be doing a full day of networking and mastermind and education. So once again, bring your families we're going to have optional excursions such as a luau, happy hours dinners and some other activities to be able to have fun in the sun. And, you know, space is extremely limited because my vision is to kind of create this as a more intimate environment where we're all one big little ohana here. So come in and combine business and pleasure in a little tax write off hopefully you can get that right off in before the 2019 ends. Those signing up now we'll be able to get a free one on one strategy session that if you want to stick around till Tuesday, you can knock that out or if you're leaving early, we can try and get that done throughout the weekend. But Hope to see you out in Hawaii go to simple passive cash flow calm slash, we re We'll see you guys here.4:09 Alright, so this is the 2020 launch for goals. If you guys go to simple passive cash flow calm slash 2020 dash launch, you'll get access to the cheat sheet here on the top are the important links that you want to get your hands on. So the first one is an edible worksheet to follow along link. So what this is, is I'm going to guide you through some questions to go through and this is just make it easier. And I was hoping to create some kind of environment where people will take over what other people are doing and they get some good ideas. And then the other downloadable here is the little cheat sheet for how to creating an action board for yourself. But if you're a visual person, and it does show that you put up pictures of what you want to achieve, you see it from time to time it just kind of reminded of your goals. I'm not a big fan of the whole law of attraction partly because if the law of attraction True the opposite should be true so if you think of something really bad and and then happened to so you guys can follow along here get the slide deck here so I asked this question in the we Facebook club and a couple other groups that I have online and if you guys aren't in this group go to simple passive cash flow calm slash club and then join the club there and you guys should get access to the private Facebook group. But the question I asked was either these three things what is getting in your way of achieving your goals because all your failure of not achieving what you want is contributed to attention focus or time or not having enough energy so I kind of pulls it out there and although informal poll and the big ones that came up a lot, I think was time and then second attention and focus energy didn't seem to be a big thing for me personally, I think after quitting my job I got all the all time in the world. That's why I didn't check that box with Alan For me it was just attention and focus. So if it is attention Focus then let's actually set the attention and focus right now. If not, we're just doing whatever throughout the whole year. So here's some things I'm going to ask you guys to get out of your comfort zone a little bit, we're going to use lies the breakout rooms in this. And we're going to ask you guys to get a pen and paper out or your mobile device and write some notes down. And just to kick things off here some things that I kind of get done in 2018, I was trying to get some assistance. So I have to work 12 hour days, seven days a week, and currently that's in progress right now try to get a new book done. And that was done. Try to get a smaller core inner circle who he mastermind members in getting there and trying to get to 11% body fat, but that went the opposite way. So yeah, acknowledge that failure right there. And if you're not hitting your goals, you need to do something else. Like sometimes what I'll do is I'll have a project that not getting done for like two or three weeks, like recording all these videos that's going in the E course is really hard, and I don't Get it done. I'm going to wake up super early one morning sort of a penalty to myself. So that's just another example for the physical fitness one. If I'm not losing the weight or I'm not on the track, I'm going to add another day of going to the gym. I was always frustrated by the numerous investing education programs out there who gouge their investors charging them 5000 10,025 and $40,000. I don't know about you, but I thought it was completely wrong when they trick people actually had them call their credit card providers to get a credit line increase to pay for the program. Many of these people could not afford these expensive coaching options and should have used it as a down payment for the first investment. If someone only had 20 grand they should use that to buy a rental to get started. Let me make one thing clear our mastermind is not for you if you're broke, it's a cost effective way to mitigate mistakes when building your portfolio. People in this group are going to be a pre selected population of professionals and high net worth individuals. You'll be a good company. That is after Apply and get in at simple passive cash flow calm backslash journey and yeah if you're lonely in Chicago to find motivated friends who want to do more than sit at their w two jobs collecting and paycheck and go home and watching Netflix all day because all they can afford is 899 a month on their digital entertainment budget then this is a place for you to simple passive cash flow calm backslash journey to learn more.8:23 So at this point, I want you guys to write down five things you accomplished this past year. So if you're just sitting there not doing anything you need to get a pen and paper out and play full out and just this is not going to take very long just probably gonna roll probably rush to this and about 2030 minutes and if you guys are watching this on the replay, you guys can you know skip forward to the pauses but we are going to roll through this quickly so you guys can get off on your merry way. But if we're doing this for real, I probably leave a lot more time for you guys to write out your thoughts. So stop where you're at and move around to some jumping jacks, some squats and push ups. And if you're not doing anything, maybe you should consider what's your what's going on. I mean, are you too cool for school or what you get everything done last year? Well, if not, you better get down and give me 10 is need to get yourself moving. And the whole point of this is to get yourself in a better state because we're going to kind of create the intentions for the year mazels do it from a place of London and in a good mood. So if you're not a moving around person, and you're in mobile will think of something that you made you laugh or made you smile, or just freaking smile, fake smile, if you can, that works, too. And I'll preface like the next 2030 minutes of saying like some of what I'll be presenting may seem like you already know this. So we'll see a little bit out there. I won't ask you guys to jump around. Again, we're done with that and some will seem totally off the wall. And that's where I'm going to challenge you to get really curious. I'm going to end this goal setting activity with a bunch of tips that hopefully you haven't seen before, but if you have Take a chance, take it as an opportunity to reevaluate some new strategies around. So again, go back to the five things that you accomplished this past year and write some more and reflecting on what they were and celebrating the wins for this past year, because it's not like you didn't do anything. 365 days, I forgot what that song was in rent, but 5100 edited. If you guys seen that play, you probably sing it in your head, and it probably ruined your evening. But the reason why we're doing this is at some point in this year, you're going to lose momentum. For some of you guys, it'll be tomorrow afternoon. For others, it might be in the first quarter, second quarter, or even in December, but I know for sure you're not going to be at 100% all the time. So you want to refuse this as a little less of being like, Oh, look at that stuff I did last year. I've accomplished a lot and hopefully that gets you out of your rut. So out of those circle or add three things that were impossible from that list. Now what were the three big one and maybe make a side note. What did you do? To make those things possible, was it a strategy? was a system you put in place? Or was it some kind of internal dialogue that you told yourself couple years ago, I kind of had a better vision of what this weedle pipeline club was going to be all about and over like the last few years, quite over almost a quarter billion dollars and brought in $24 million from now over 200 investors in our group, I wouldn't have believed them. This is a good example of an impossible goal. And what did what did I do to make this possible? And obviously it's a big goal, a lot of aspects to it, but I think it was just keep working at it every day strategizing, re planning and using that strategy, because if it's worked for you in the past, it can possibly work for you in the future. It's just the way you're wired up to finish that up top three things that you thought were impossible and worth the strategies that it took to happen. So next step here is to do a smart check. SM AR t Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Realistic and timely. So an example of this would be on the last day of this year. I will be immensely special. satisfied when I get down 255 pounds before October 2020. Right? It's specific. It's measurable. 35 pounds in there. I don't know if it's quite attainable if you're a foreigner pounds realistic, and there's a timely thing you're too but I always talk about the four legged stool in terms of your life where one leg is health. The other leg is wealth, relationships and personal stuff like more spiritual stuff. Take the time now and write at least one in each of these categories. Other self help groups, they'll recommend like the wheels, what they call it, which has not four legs, but like 16 legs, which I think is just really confusing. And yeah, be careful when you make things really confusing. You end up doing nothing. So I like to keep things simple, the simple passive cash flow right so I keep it to these for another metaphor that I've heard when I was working at my job was certain things are glass balls, certain things are rubber balls, juggling all these balls and you're always going to be overwhelmed. Then there's always gonna be balls in the air, but there's certain balls be dropped them, they'll shatter. They won't just bounce things like relationships, I think you could probably consider that the last ball where things in your business depending on the situation, it could be a little more resilient. So I'm going to quick here because you guys can watch the replay later again and again. So if this goal does not scare you, but it's not high enough, and if you accomplish it, what will it give you? It's good to write why you're doing something because again, when the year goes by, and your motivation dip naturally dips and 30 to 60 days from now, you're going to want to reaffirm Why the heck you were doing this in the first place. So once you're done with that next exercise is kind of on that same line of the Y is here's an exercise that I personally do often I'd say probably you know once or twice a year is in 10 years, I will be immensely satisfied when I and I fill in the blank and it could be $25,000 passive a month with still being able to interact with a person a day was something I had written in In the past, I've been kind of changing my expectations on like people have been saying like, I want 100 doors, I want $25,000 passive, I challenge a lot of people in the mastermind where I keep telling them like, that's just a number, tell us what that will give you what kind of a lifestyle so you get very specific here in 10 years, I would be immensely satisfied when I wake up when I want to, and that is at 943. No one is home, I get to jump in my Maserati and go to not my job, but I'm just going to go to Starbucks to do this stuff. And then I just continue on this sentence, create your lifestyle, and we pick this 10 year timeframe because Tony Robbins says, you know, we overestimate what we can do in one year and underestimate what we can do in 10 years and something I've been noticing I have talks with investors quite often I'll be multiple times a day and a lot of people are new to investing and this this concept of pull versus push were the differences. Why do people call up this random guy on the internet with this podcast? Pretty much pretty They'll call a lot of financial personal information. And most times it's something that's compelled them or push them to do it. And that is some kind of unfortunate incidents that has happened at their day job, for example, like maybe they got passed over by a promotion. Or maybe they maybe they're going to get fired. They had, you know, got put on probation, or maybe they just had their second kid and they just did the math the other day, and they realized they're not going to have enough to be able to have the retirement that they want. Or maybe somebody else is driving a nicer car than them and they're pissed. There's something that compels people to get out of their normal set tracks. Unfortunately, this only lasts for about I'd say about like three to nine months, typically. And I'll even see it in a lot of highly motivated people. I check back in on random people that I talked to, I know where they're at when they give me a call, and I kind of track them. I can do this because I have social media and I can spy on everybody. So my finding is the people that kind of transcend that three to nine months. period are people who find some kind of bigger meaning that holds them to the next level. It's kind of like getting going from year one to year two to year three to year four. And that mechanism is your Why Why are you doing this? And I outlined that in my book, why do I do simple passive cash flow and stay up to three o'clock in the morning because I feel like there's a whole bunch of bad financial advice out there that's just robbing people's lives and not only retirement and I've kind of set out to help people in that facet. So as corny as it sounds, it's been working. I've been at this for about four years and haven't missed a week yet on the podcast. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to quit little times. And before I quit my day job I was went down to like bi weekly podcasts. So define that why and I wrote a further article what simple passive cash flow calm slash goals, which is more of a deep dive into this defining end game you guys can do on your own time. If you guys come to Hawaii, we're going to be doing This in person. So we're going to skip this networking break here. And we were going to talk to our partner about our goals and vision. The partner was going to give us feedback if it was smart because something I find is what works well as you know, share this with your partner, your friend and have them call you out on it if it's smart, but we don't have time for that today we need to get moving next step in the action plan here is to write down five things you did not accomplish this past year. Now these things could be you didn't hit your weight loss goals. Yeah, I caught myself at it, I got a little slower finding new hobby outlet. I didn't do that I thought I was gonna play a new musical instrument or do something new. I don't know, maybe I just not thinking hard enough. But I didn't really do anything like that sort this past year. I normally operate in a frantic mode, doing all this stuff, and I didn't really improve that. So those are some of myself and hopefully that gave you some ideas to call yourself on it. And that just goes to show right it's either lack of time focus, or lack energy. Those are the three things that this all points down to four failure, no more specifically, you know, here's some six common things that get in our way. Number one, we just disconnect from the goal. Maybe it's because of a week why we were pushed at one point. But then once that push, that quick motivation went away, and we got used to the status quo, we weren't able to follow through number two here, maybe we find a surrogate for that goal to accomplish that same way. So the example of that would be you wanted to leave your day job because you didn't like your boss, but then your boss left and you're fine. Now, actually, things improved. Number three, use the wrong strategy. And that's what we're kind of going to work on for the rest of the time here is, you know, working on strategy, I'm a big strategy guy, as opposed to some of the Fufu stuff and think about it and it might happen attitude. Number four, you lack the knowledge resources or people before a lot of people that's why they join the mastermind to get around the right people because as you know, passive investors especially accredited investors, or even people 500,000 dollars network are higher. It's all in the network and the people that you know, and the other people trying to do the same thing. You know, knowledge is found in podcasts and books at some point, you kind of run the circuit on that maybe that was once the barrier for you. Number five, you took the easy way. And maybe number six, it was the whole crabs in a bucket theory, where you just had the wrong people around you that weren't growth mindset and kind of pulled you back down. So now look at your goals and at least take one of them now and break down the goal into four chunks. Example of the whole physical fitness here is being broken down. And I like to use physical fitness because it's very logical as opposed to some of these bigger goals. Just to outline the procedure. First step would be creating a routine of activity three days a week number two, see this is a defined check in point. So evaluate process in March 1. And when you do that, you literally want to write it down or put it on the calendar or whatever you use and put it in as you evaluate the process and what you've been doing up to that point and You might have to change your course correction, number three part of the strategy here, that's that earlier strategies not working, maybe you add a fourth, fifth day of working out. And then the step four here, evaluate progress in June 1. And at that point, really start to looking at the diet. So take your goals, break it down into four chunks, it may not be the best strategy, but look better than nothing, at least you have a plan going in, I'm going to go over a variety of different tricks or hacks that you can use to improve your strategy that you have right now. So first one is that the person hacks so this involves you getting someone who who was five years ahead of you at your level, and someone who you can mentor in something that you're working on, which sounds counterintuitive. So the first person that you're kind of looking up to this person is going to have the lay of land for you and be able to advise you, the person at your level that's going to be sort of my accountability partner, keep you motivated and the person under your level, this kind of keeps you up at your level. And some people they just want to let people down and by teaching other people You inherently learn a lot I thought I didn't know much about investing. When I started this podcast I was just going to talk about what the stuff I did but apparently by talking about it I kind of got a pretty good understanding and a good way to communicate different concepts. So that's a prime example of that. The next tip here you can sort of employ is this concept of the four levels of a mentors sold for the first level, the lowest level or mentors that unconscious you absorb. So these would be the podcasts you listen to the books, you read the news articles, you read the stuff that you see on TV, this is all the unconscious stuff that you're bringing in and the influence your thoughts and creatures, your set points on the way you act. The second level is informal mentors. Now these are the guys who could possibly five years or more ahead of you that's going to help you out give you the lay of land here there but make no mistake after your chance meeting with them or maybe it's a serious they don't really have skin in the game. They're here just to be a cool person and help you out. I think a lot of senses just in our we Facebook group club, it's a lot of good networking. But at the same time, it's a lot of informal networking and informal mentoring, where you might just talk to one person. And that's it. And that's why I like the passive investor accelerator and masterminds and you're able to really get to know people, it becomes more of a reciprocal relationship for the informal mentor, they're helping you out, but they're not bought in as like the third level, which is the more of a formal mentor where you're actually paying this person for their services. Or maybe you're not paying for the services, but they have skin in the game that may be akin to like your children, right? Because if you screw up, they're probably going to come and mooch off your money. So you don't want that to happen. Where informal mentors kind of like your niece or nephew you know, you don't really care if they run around in the restaurant or not yours you set the deal with them once in a while. The last level the highest level is you kind of completing the circle of life and becoming a mentor of yourself and paying it forward. Here's some environmental systems you can create for yourself. I bought this habit board hasn't come in the mail yet. So I'm excited to see if it works for me or not, but you build a habit and you put a push pin in the hole every day that you complete that task. And I think Jerry Seinfeld created this productivity hack where you don't break the chain. It's your job to figure out what is this daily habit or already habit or whatever to do that's going to move slowly towards your goals over the long term. And it could be something like you're going to do a set of ABS at eight o'clock every day, or you're going to go to the gym every day, or some of you guys to brush your teeth every day. So this all goes down to the whole there's a very popular books, Benjamin hardy wrote willpower doesn't work The Power of Habit, obviously you guys know what that's all about. But you don't really need to read the books. Just trust me. The systems and creating your environment are very important because willpower is weak. We fall victim to what's easy, and what's easy isn't typically aligned with where a direction we'd like to have. There's another book here by Gretchen Rubin, the 14th sees she's got four types of people, the upholder, the rebel, the questioner and neoplasia. I think she has like a quick quiz on her website to quickly identify who you are. But I'll kind of go through these four categories of holders the person who always follows the rules. And for someone who would like myself who was more of a question or a question everything, the upholders are really annoying to me because they are more about process than getting things done. The rebel is the person who always does the opposite of what everybody says and what society wants. And the Oh pleasure does things for other people instead of keeping things doing things for themselves. So go back to the upholder, the person who follows the rules. So you create rules for yourself. That's a strategy for you. If you're a rebel, or if you're you know, if your kids are rebel, right? You have them come to the conclusion that they should not eat candy. Let them say what do you want to have a sore stomach? Well, last time you had a sore stomach, if you had the candy, it's just kind of creating the fence around them and letting them make the decision for themselves because If you make the decision, you're going to go the opposite way. And we kind of do this to ourselves unconsciously the questioner is the person who questions things. So I would say myself being a questioner, I think what works a lot is understanding the why why am I doing this reconfirm? What's the big picture here, then the openledger person who wants to please other people, any nouns, the simplest like you set up calendar invites with other people to set you on the right goals the right thing. So you go to the gym with another person, you carpool with the person. That way when you you don't want to go to the gym, you don't want to let the other person down or yourself down rewards and penalties here are another way of strategizing to set yourself up for success. Some people respond more to the stick and which is the penalty getting hit and some people respond more to setting up milestones and rewards. So you're kind of working towards milestones along the way, and you give yourself maybe a treat here or maybe you buy yourself something or maybe You take yourself off to a massage Michelangelo says here that I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. So he said this, if you think about the statue of the Michelangelo was this big marble block, and it really wasn't anything until he removed the outer layer. And a lot of times, just saying no can be the best thing. I mean, look into your life, everybody's on demand for your time and energy. But if you're especially if you're in a blazer and you're trying to please everybody, you're going to be drained pretty quickly, and you're not going to have any bandwidth to do anything that you want it to do. So also beware of muster baiting. These are the person who says I must do this, I must do that must and also same time, look out for the shitting on yourself. How do you deal with your muster Bader and a shitter, to use words that create possibility ownership and forward momentum to example, I'm choosing to take control of my financial freedom today, or I'm choosing to direct my money or I'm choosing to be more consistent with my motivation. It's funny You watch a lot of people and you're very conscious to the words that they're choosing and the way they view the world, but to that person, it's their blind spot, and they can often mean their downfall. And we are very blind to our own self self torture questions. If you're a person who beat yourself up use what instead of why, instead of why can't I be more consistent to know what can I do to be more consistent in a way it's instead of arguing with yourself try and be more collaborative with yourself and try and address the problem the negative loops or belief you have will get you in the magic words that you can use our up until now. So you can use up until now I thought insert the negative loop or the self torture phrase that you've been using for the longest time. So build goals and strategies, at least four steps and with the check in points and here's a little guide for for the check in points is you know, set the timer for 20 to 40 minutes getting into the right state. Maybe you need to put on Nice music, maybe you need a little wine, whatever floats your boat and get a pen and paper or on your computer, mobile device and a quiet space and check in on yourself and see how your strategy is working and make sure you schedule these check ins in the calendar. If not, I guarantee you will not happen create a check in schedule here I put two to four weeks as a recommendation. But sometimes it might be a more appropriate to do more of a quarterly check in or half a year check in but find something that's appropriate. If you're signing up to do something every two weeks and every four weeks and you don't do it because it's impractical. It's not the right chicken schedule for the right scope of the project or scope size, then you're going to lose a lot of momentum. And it's kind of like Well, I'm going to go to the gym and do 1000 push ups well likely you're not going to do anything make the goal small and obtainable and then you'll get momentum on your side. And you know, we have see strategies because mike tyson says everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. All right. It works. Online is still open if you guys want to record some stuff on there, hopefully you guys can get some good ideas and some other people's goals if you want to steal some of there's no problem with that. But that concludes our goals webinar this year. Hope to see you guys out in Honolulu on February 14 to 17th go to simple passive cash flow calm slash week three to get involved with that and also the passive investor acceleration mastermind. If you guys like this interaction, we kind of do this quite often. We do this every two weeks, and we pair up people and we get to start to build their relationships that way and also the online community there. I hope you guys have a good 2020 and we'll post this on the website and the YouTube channel. If you guys want to go ahead and review this on your own time and make sure you add more goals. My suggestion would be to make three to seven goals anymore is too much in the overwhelm any less you might get stalled on a wonderful it's always good to Have two or three that you can keep moving on. Thanks for listening guys and we'll see you guys at the next investor letter meetings will pass a casual comm slash investor letter for that and hopefully you guys have a good 202030:12 right30:17 this website offers very general information concerning real estate for investment purposes every investor situation is unique always seek the services of licensed third party appraisers and inspectors to verify the value and condition of any property you intend to purchase. Use the services of professional title and escrow companies and licensed tax investment and or legal advisor before relying on any information contained herein information is not guaranteed as an everyday investment there is risk. The content found here is just my opinion and things change and I reserve the right to change my mind. Above all else, do your own analysis and think for yourself because in the end, you're the only person who is going to look out for your best interests. 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Season 3 officially kicks off with a special premiere episode! Our incredible hosts Zach and Ade spend some time catching up and talking about what they did over the holidays, and they also chat about a few things to get excited for in the upcoming season. More features, more profiles, more highlights - there's a lot to look forward to in the future! This show's a two-in-one, so be sure to listen to the whole episode. Ade graciously shares some very impactful content that she recorded themed around her career journey and eventual job offer, so you don't want to miss it.Click here to read the piece Zach mentioned titled "Democracy Grief is Real."TRANSCRIPTZach: Yearrrrrp. What's going on, everybody? It's Season--oh, my gosh. 1, 2... Season 3.A ghost: Sure is.Zach: More fire for your head top, and welcome back. Is that a ghost? Is that--A ghost: [whispering] "From the past, from the past, from the past..."Zach: From the past? Oh, my gosh. Y'all, welcome back Ade.[kids applause, then our hosts imitate air horns]Zach: Man, wow. Listen, it is 2020. It's 2020. Isn't that nuts? It's 2020. You know, I definitely want to say though, you know, I've missed you. Y'all know. Y'all have probably noticed that Ade has not been in the podcast regularly, hasn't been around, you know. Breaking my heart quite frankly, you know what I'm saying? I cried. You know? I was sad.Ade: [laughing] Like... okay. All right, sir. Zach: I'm just thankful. I'm happy that you're here, you know? Season 3 is gonna be crazy, right? We have a lot of stuff going on. We have, you know, More profiles and highlights from, you know, different companies. You know, we've had Accenture on, we've had the Coalition of Black Excellence on. We got some other conversations and things that we're cooking up, but nothing to share just yet, you know? We are working on a book. That's right, that's right. More to come on that later, but I'm just kind of throwing some teasers out there. We've got some other media that we're gonna be experimenting with this year. I'm really excited about that. And then, you know, we've got--what else, man? We've got, you know, Ade's--I'm not gonna step on Ade. So she has some content that we're gonna get into that she recorded as she gets into the next stage of her professional career and journey, but I'ma give her space to talk about that in a second. Before we go there though, let's talk about the holiday season. What did you do?Ade: Oh, God. What did I do? I--uh, I slept.Zach: Turn up.Ade: I ate.Zach: Yeah.Ade: And I twisted my ankle.Zach: How?Ade: I don't even want to get into it. [both laugh]Zach: Oh, no. [laughing] Okay. Um...Ade: The point remains. I survived. I survived the holiday season. I spent some time with my loved ones. I don't know if I've mentioned my nephews on here before, but I have two nephews, one who loves me and one [who] hates me. But, you know, thanks be to God. The one who hates me now loves me and he wants to spend time with me on a regular basis now. Zach: Children are a fickle beast, man.Ade: They are so terrible. They are unruly, and they are tyrants. [both laughing] But we love them anyway.Zach: Man, we do. I have a nephew. He is adorable. Goodness, gracious. He's adorable, but it's like--and I just realized I guess I should go ahead and drop the news. Sheesh, I'm talking about kids. Well, first of all, let me say this first. So I have a nephew. He is adorable. But he's a boy, right? And if I just--he's just gonna get away with everything if I babysit him 'cause he's just too cute, but he's mischievious. Like, he's a cute little mischievious kid, but I'm just not--and I'm just not tough enough, 'cause he's too cute. He's too cute, you know? Now, if y'all have ugly kids, like, bring 'em over. I'll be a great disciplinarian. But if your kid's cute--Ade: What?![record scratch sfx]Zach: [laughing] Nah, ain't no such thing as ugly kids. Children are a blessing, and it's awesome, and actually it's with that in mind, you know, I actually have some news, you know what I'm saying, I'd like to share. You know, if anybody follows me on Instagram--which y'all don't, 'cause my follower count is not that booming like that and I haven't posted on Living Corporate, but my wife and I are expecting our first child.Ade: Ayeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.Zach: A little girl. Very excited, you know what I'm saying? [ow sfx]Ade: You know, I just wanted to say that Ade makes a really great first name for baby girls. I'm just saying. Putting it out there.Zach: [inhales, then plays a laughing sound effect]Ade: Whoa! [both laughing] Whoa, what's with the personal attacks? Like...Zach: Oh, my gosh. Shout-out to my wife, my spouse, my queen, my rib, you know what I'm saying, Candis. Doing all the hard work, you know? I--you know, listen... I put in the work, you know what I mean, but I'm not really carrying the load, you know what I'm saying? So air horns for her. [air horns sfx] You know what I'm saying? Just really appreciate her. You said you ate, but you talked about some food--so what did you eat? Like, what was your favorite thing?Ade: God, that's a good question. I absolutely could go back in, like, my memory bank and take a look at these photos that I took of my [?] plates.Zach: All right. Pull those up, 'cause I know for me--like, and shout-out to my grandmother-in-law. She made all types of vittles. They were delicious. [Ade laughs, making Zach laugh] And shout-out to my wife--Ade: Did you just say vittles?Zach: I did say vittles. I'm trying to bring vittles back in 2020. Ade: Why are you so old?Zach: Think about the last time--like, we have not, our parents have not, perhaps our grandparents are the last generation that use the word vittles casually.Ade: Right, and I think that's for good reason and we should leave that term there.Zach: It's SO old. Vittles, dawg? It's so, so, so, SO old. Ade: Kind of like you. We know.Zach: Kind of like me, that's right. I'm a whole 30 out here.Ade: That's wild.Zach: I know, right? 'Cause you just turned, like, 19.Ade: ...Um, first of all, 16, thank you very much.Zach: [laughs] No, not 16. Nope, nope, nope. There's no creep life around here. Nope, you are 24, right? Or 25?Ade: I am 25.Zach: Congratulations on turning 25.Ade: 25.Zach: I was gonna say--I was in the middle of my shout-outs and my thanks before you rudely called me old. So my grandmother-in-law and then my wife made some incredible bread pudding. She made bread pudding with crossiants and then didn't use buttermilk for the cream, instead used--what'd she use? Egg nog just because she ran out of butter and was like, "Eh, it's kind of the same." That egg nog was HITTING. I said, "Yo, what is this?" I mean, it got ate up. Shout-out to my sister-in-law Holly. She made some incredible mac 'n cheese. And Holly--listen, man, shout-out to Holly, man. She is cool people. Sister-in-law, you know? I definitely consider her a Bucky, you know what I'm saying, in this space of allyship and war and fighting for equity and justice for underrepresented people. And you know how I know Holly is an ally? And I haven't told her this, so if she listens to this podcast it'll be her first time hearing this. [Ade laughs] I knew that she was an ally--first of all she's an ally off top, 'cause, I mean, come on. She's been down. She's been doing this. But a reminder of her allyship--'cause this is not the determinant, 'cause she's be an ally off of a bunch of other stuff--a reminder of her allyship, she was making macaroni and cheese, and she baked the macaroni and cheese, and I said, "I knew it, dawg. I knew it." Ade: [laughs] I...Zach: No, let me tell you something. She has never--she has yet to let me down. She holds it down, bro. She holds it down. Ade: You are so incredibly canceled. I can't.Zach: [laughing] Shout-out to Holly, my sister-in-law. Shout-out to all of my allies out there. And if you call yourself an ally and you're not baking your macaroni and cheese, you are not an ally, dawg.Ade: We don't know you in these streets.Zach: We do not know you in these streets if you do not bake your macaroni and cheese. Bake it. It is not done until it's baked.Ade: Because I don't--what are you doing? You are serving undercooked food.Zach: What are you doing here? What are you doing here? You're giving me these wet, hot noodles? Bake it.Ade: That don't even sound right.Zach: It don't. How something wet hot--come on, relax. So anyway, but man, let me tell you something. The highlight, from a cuisine perspective, was when my uncle Marvin brought in these pecan candies. My goodness. Listen, I said [blessings come in sfx]. Boy, the bless--boy, ooh. Too good.Ade: [laughing] What is your problem? Man.Zach: Bro. Man, let me tell you something. And everybody got their own little bag. Handed me that bag, I said [Kawhi what it do baby sfx, laughing]Ade: All right. So you are just starting 2020 off on all types of foolishness. All right, heard you.Zach: Listen, man, I'm over here--I'm so excited, 'cause you ain't been around for a while, but see, since you've been gone, we've been using this soundboard. And I'ma share the soundboard--Ade: I can tell.Zach: Oh, listen. The soundboard is heat rock. [owww sfx] You know? I just really enjoy it quite a bit. So let me think about this. You still haven't talked about the food that you ate.Ade: Oh, yeah. I have been really on, like, a smoky kick lately, so I had, like--I made macaroni and cheese but with all smoked cheeses, and it was just--Zach: 'Cause you like cheese like that. We talked about this. Like, were you just introduced to cheese recently?Ade: Yes, I was very, very recently, like a year ago, introduced to cheese. I have discovered that I'm still quite lactose intolerant. Like, my ancestors were not with the lactose tip, but you know what? I'ma take my chances. I had my smoked mac 'n cheese, and I had it with the best collard greens I've ever made in all of my life. When I drizzled that little bit of just maple syrup right on it with that smoked turkey stock, I was just kind of like...Zach: Goodness, gracious!Ade: God loves me.Zach: Oh, He does. That's true.Ade: Like, this is--this is proof of the existence of the divine, and that dude loves me--or dudette, you know? Non-binary--Zach: Yes. You know, it's funny because, you know, you and I are sitting here, right? It was a crazy year. A lot of stuff going on. You know, things that we can share in time throughout Season 3. We're talking about physical health, mental health, emotional health, financial health, right? Career personal or professional development. It's interesting because, like--I don't know, man, and I'm kind of jumping all around 'cause I'm so excited. I'm excited for you to be here, but I'm excited just to, like, kick off this season, and so, like, this is, like, a loosey--like, we don't have a formatted, you know, interview or anything like that. We're just chopping it up, welcoming Ade back all the way, but I don't know, man. It's just been a lot, and it's just interesting because we were creating content for Living Corporate, and at the same time we were--you know, it was helping us while we were helping other people, you know what I'm saying? So let's do this. Like we said before, you have something that you already had, like, created and recorded that I think would be really helpful for us to put in on this episode, so why don't we talk a little bit about that and then we'll transition to that?Ade: Awesome.Zach: So talk to me about, like, what was it? Like, I know we talked about--like, your journey, you've had some updates in your life and what you've been doing professionally and personally. Like, what was it that we're gonna be listening to in a minute?Ade: Yep. I'm just gonna take a sip of my mimosa, because I just feel really good about where I am right now spiritually, so...Zach: There you go.Ade: [clears throat] La la la la. All right, y'all. So your girl is officially a junior software engineer. [champagne popping sfx] Pop! [laughs] Yeah, no. I started my new position as a junior software engineer, and it's honestly been surreal, my entire experience. I applied for a job, got a call back almost instantaneously. So I made it through the first call, the phone screening with the recruiter, and then I had a technical interview, and then I had an in-person interview that was also sort of technical, and then I had a job offer. And all of that took the span of a week and a half. I literally applied to the job on a Wednesday. The Friday after that--like, the week after that, on Friday, I had the job offer in my hand, and I actually had a competing job offer to move to Boston at the time. So it was--it honestly was an incredibly surreal experience. I went from there were days I would literally wake up to, like, five, six, seven, eight letters of rejection in my email first thing in the morning, and I would like to kind of explore a little bit further the toll that job searching takes on your mental health, because there's--there were certainly days when I would literally just feel dejected. In a society where you are kind of graded--not just graded, your worth is judged off of, you know, in relation to you and relation to your humanity, how much are you worth within a capitalistic system? And my job at the time was incredibly toxic. I felt dejected pretty much every single day waking up, but that wasn't the end of it, and I am so glad it wasn't. And it was, you know, thanks to people like you, people like my best friend Kendall, people like Liz, who really, like, affirmed me, because I have a tendency to internalize situations and, you know, look for ways in which these things were my fault. And I remember even having a conversation with Liz where she literally said, "These are all symptoms of an emotionally abusive relationship," and I'm like, "How do you have an emotionally abusive relationship with your job?" [laughs] But that's entirely real. It's a real thing, and just being able to step back from all of that and literally, like, wash my hands off at the end of the year and never have to speak to those people again or never have to be in a situation in which I feel as though I'm compromising my mental health for the sake of I have to take care of my family and I have to protect what's mine... yeah, you guys are gonna hear a whole lot more of that as the episode continues, but I'm nothing short of eternally grateful for the fact that 2019 is over, but it's over and I took it like a G. Zach: Yo, and shout-out to you for that. [both laugh] Yo, 2019 was hard.Ade: 2019 whooped my ass, okay? But you know what? I whooped it back.Zach: Listen, 2019 was--2019 was coming from your boy's neck, okay? It was like, "We're coming for you, sucka." It's like, "My gosh, leave me alone, 2019. What y'all doing?" But you're right though, and you know what? Look, it's a new year.Ade: Yep. New me.Zach: Yeah, it's a new year. New spaces, new mindsets. You know, new opportunities and just space to reset and really get bcak on it, right? Like, I'm hoping that most of us were able to take some time away for the holidays so we could come back at least somewhat refreshed for a new year, a new decade. You know, a lot of people have been saying new decade and stuff, but let's just take every day as a blessing that it's a new day, right? Like, you may not see 2030, right? But you have--if you're listening to this right now, you have this day today. And so just being excited about that. Let's see here. We're gonna transition over there. Before we do that, Ade, is there anything else that we need to talk about?Ade: I do want to make a quick note about--so we're currently in a time of upheaval. I'm not gonna make too much reference to that, I just want to kind of make the point--well, two points, one that we don't lose sight of humanity as a whole in trying to protect our daily reality, and two that you don't let whatever's happening in the news cycle sway you off of the intentions that you've set for this year. You set those intentions for a reason. You set those goals, whatever that you did, for a reason, and hopefully you are recognizing all the ways in which the news cycle could be causing any number of anxious or negative thoughts or anything like that, but I do want you to be able to step back, and by you I mean the entire Living Corporate family. Be able to recognize when you are stuck in a feedback loop of negative thoughts, negative news, negative content, and kind of find your way back to your center, because as long as there is a world out there, there is always going to be negativity to feed into, but don't let your 2020 start off with that. We literally just kicked 2019's butt. 2020, let's focus more on our communities. Let's focus on our mental health and smashing our goals.Zach: Yo, amen to that, you know what I'm saying? Like, I super agree. [Ade snapping in the background, laughing] And, you know, I think what you're speaking to also is, like--so you talked about upheaval. That reminds me of two things. One, I just read this article--and I'll put it in the show notes--called Democracy Grief is Real, and it's an opinion piece from the New York Times, which is, like--we can talk about the New York Times at a separate time, but this particular piece was very good, and just talking about the toll, the mental and emotional toll, that the world's events has taken on you. Like, just being more and more aware of, like, systemic injustices, oppression and, like, blatant unethical behaviors, like, just the impact that it has on you just living, right? Just you seeing that, what does it do to you? And I think, you know, to that point, like, I'm really excited because this season, we're gonna be talking about real structural inequity. We're gonna be talking about--like, we're really gonna be calling out white supremacy and patriarchy and privilege and access and holding people, institutions of power, to account when it comes to how they can better support and create more equitable places for black and brown folks, for underrrepresented folks, for non- straight white able-bodied men to work and to exist and to live, you know? I think 2020 is gonna be a really interesting decade in that you have, like--I think that there's a certain level of consciousness that, like, people are waking up to. I don't think there's gonna be some great revival or anything like that, so don't misquote me, but I do think that, like, certain things are coming to a head. I do think that, like, when you talk about diversity, equity and inclusion work, there just is gonna be less and less space for, like, the corporatized, white-washed talk tracks that we typically hear. I think that--I just don't see those things surviving. I think that, like, technology and just access is changing for black and brown folks to the point where--and this generation, like, they're just not gonna stay. Like, they're just not gonna stay and put up with being mistreated. And we've seen it already. Like, we've seen it. First of all, this is not a new phenomenon. We've seen this since--we've seen this from the jump, for black folks at least, but just for all oppressed groups in America, eventually there's going to be resistance, and I just think that that's bubbling up into these very, like, corporate spaces too, and so I'm excited because some of the guests that we have this season are really gonna be getting into that, really giving, like, really honest and approachable at the same time advice on what leaders can be doing to either disrupt or dismantle systems that have historically disadvantaged black and brown folks, underrepresented folks, and I'm just really excited about that. Like, we had a few people hit me up last season, Ade, like, kind of salty about, like, the content.Ade: Really?Zach: Yeah, just a little bit. Like, just a little.Ade: Why though?Zach: Why? Well, they were like--they just felt like some of it was a little too--a little too honest, a little too black, you know what I'm saying? But--Ade: May I address that real quick?Zach: Go ahead. [laughing] Ade: Ah, let me lubricate my throat. [clears throat] ~Kick rocks.~Zach: [laughs] There are folks who want to do diversity, equity and inclusion, but they're trying to figure out a way to do it without, like, offending white folks or offending the people in the majority, so--Ade: Which I don't understand. I don't believe your sincerity as someone who professes that--and I recently saw a tweet, and I wish I could quote my source, but I saw someone say "Switch the D in DE&I from Diversity to Decolonization."Zach: Oooooooh! Ade: Fire.Zach: That--wait, hold--what? Yo, that is--Ade: Fire. Fire.Zach: No, that is--[Flex bomb sfx] That is fiiiiiiiireeeee. Are you kidding me? [air horns sfx] Switch the D from diversity to decolonization?Ade: Bro, it literally changed for me the entire framework of DE&I, because if you were taking a liberation stance within the context of what a workplace environment needs to be, you are approaching that from the context of not only do we not care about your discomfort, we're actually actively pursuing your discomfort because your discomfort is where your decolonization lies. Like, that's where you're going to address all of the biases you have that you've had the privilege thus far of not having to confront. And not even your biases, but we're, like, actively taking back space from you and giving voice to the people that have been deliberately silenced in these spaces. So again, the reason I say kick rocks is because, I mean, we're decolonizing this space. This is a decolonized space, my accent aside, so we're really not--[both laughing] Inside joke. So as far as I'm concerned, like, there's no such thing as prioritizing the feelings of the oppressor over the oppressed. And yes, by default, if you are not the oppressed, you are the oppressor. That's--Zach: And this is a binary that we actually accept on Living Corporate, you know what I'm saying? You know, we affirm LGBTQIA+ identity, right? You know what I'm saying? We had content last season about being non-binary. Yo, that's great though. I'm trying to find this tweet that you said. If you just made that up it's still fire, but--Ade: I swear I saw it on Twitter.Zach: It's just a great quote. I love that. I love that. But no, you're absolutely right, and I think it's interesting because when you hear some of the episodes--when y'all hear some of the episodes that, like, we have this upcoming season, it's all about, like--like, these are people who are CEOs of, like, diversity, equity and inclusion firms. Like, they're consultants. They're executives. And I'm noticing there are certain, like, benchmarks around, like--you can kind of tell, like, kind of just where people are, but most people tie the diversity--they tie equity to justice, right? Like, when you talk about the true DE&I work in this space, it's all about justice, and it's interesting because I've seen, like, executives of, like, major corporations talk about--there was a recent article from Harvard Business Review about creating, like, black equity at work, and I was like, "Look, y'all are retweeting that. Consider what this means before y'all start saying you want equity at work." Equity at work means, like, a certain level of, like, right-sizing (?) and really, like, restorative behaviors that, like, America hasn't even, like, grasped onto yet. So, like, the concept of equity when it's truly driven to, like, its--like, when it's really grasped is, like, radical. Like, that's a radical thing to propose, and it would disrupt and disassemble so many things that have been longstanding, that have been comforting, to those in the majority, and so anyway... my whole point is that, like, I'm looking forward to, like, scaring myself with the content that we're putting out this season. I don't want to make--I don't want to pull any punches. I'm just excited about this season. So if you're listening to this and you're passionate about being seen, being heard, you're underrepresented, or you're an advocate, an ally of the underrepresented at work, and you'd like to journey with us, you'd like to be on the show with us, just contact us through the website. I guess that's it, you know? What we're gonna do now is we'll pivot over to Ade's recording that she had, and this was last year, so if you hear any references that's what that's about, but we're really excited for y'all to check that out. Ade, any parting words before we transition up out of here?Ade: No, let's just, in 2020, resolve to live our best lives, and I mean that in, like, the healthiest way possible. I've been guilty of using that phrase to justify the worst of my excesses [?] in the past, and no promises that I won't do so again in 2020, but let's resolve to, you know, prioritize our health, and our mental health in particular, and, you know, check in on your friends, because many, many, many of your friends are having a difficult time and don't know how to say it, but I believe in the power of community, and I believe that we as a whole are capable of holding each other accountable, yes, but also really uplifting each other in ways that are awesome to behold. And I do mean that in the old school awesome--shout-out to Zach, you know, reviving the meanings of old words, but... [both laughing] Old school awesome in that, like, awe-inspiring [way]. But yeah, you're listening to Living Corporate, y'all. [both laughing] Peace.Zach: All right, y'all. Welcome to Season 3. Hope y'all stay around. Excited for y'all to come on this audio adventure with us this year, and we'll catch y'all, shoot, next week. Peace.Ade: What's up, y'all? This is Ade. I just wanted to pop my head back in. It's been a very, very long time since I've been around, and it's been intentional. It was an intentional break. I had to--this has been a very difficult year for me, but also one of the best years of my life. I had to take a step back from a lot of things and really reassess, you know, my journey, my progress, and really where I'm trying to go with my life. That sounds like a lot. Good news, bad news. Bad news is, you know, I turned 25 and I still don't know what I'm doing. [laughs] I still don't truly know the meaning of life, my life, but, you know, it's cool. I'm still defining that, building my parachute on the way down. Good news. Remember when I said I wanted to be an engineer? I did it! I got an official offer, and I will be starting in my role very, very soon. Your girl is officially a full stock software engineer - junior software engineer, but a software engineer nonetheless, and I just kind of wanted to share what went into all of this. It's been nearly two years. Actually, it's been two years since I decided that I was gonna do this, and it's been I think the hardest thing I've ever done, and this episode is all about telling you how and why. This is Ade, and you're listening to Living Corporate. In order to be successful, I have distilled all of the things that I've learned down to three key ingredients - grit, faith, and humor. So many of you have been following this podcast for a while, and you might not know, me, since I've been gone for such a long time, you may not know why I am where I am and what led me to deciding that I was gonna become a software engineer, and the story I always tell is that, you know, on the eve of my 23rd birthday I wrote 23 promises to myself, and the very first one was that I was gonna learn a new skill and I'd learn how to code. What a lot of you don't know is that the reason I even got there in the first place is because I went through a really, really bad break-up--and this is gonna be, like, super vulnerable, and I am not gonna make eye contact with anybody who listens to this for, like, a solid year, because I don't bare my soul this often. [laughs] Yeah, so I went through a really bad break-up, and it had me questioning, you know, myself, my self-worth, whether I was a good person, and it really, like, shook me to my core, and in the midst of this break-up, right before my birthday, I had gone to a workshop called Hear Me Code. It's an organization now semi-defunct, but it's led by a lady named Shannon Turner, who takes an afternoon and just teaches a whole bunch of women the basics of Python. And there are three levels. There's Level 1, which is what I found myself in, and then you have Level 2, who are people who have already been to Level 1 who have the fundamentals and are trying to get a little bit better, and then you have Level 3, which is people who have been to both Level 1 and 2 or are more intermediate programmers and are, like, [?] projects and all of that, all of the other fun stuff. Now, into this little story is where I find myself. I went to this thing. I had dropped out of grad school. I was, again, in the middle of this, like, super toxic break-up, and I just needed to feel good about myself, and so I decided, "You know what? I'm gonna be spontaneous and I'm gonna do this thing." And I had this old rinky-dink laptop. It took, like, 15 minutes to get started. And I didn't know a thing about anything. My whole life up until this point had been political science and sociology and philosophy, and I consider myself a relatively cerebral person, but, like, not smart. Like, I was not--I didn't consider myself in any way technical. I avoided math like my life depended on not knowing what, like, algebra was. It really--I defined myself as a person who was incapable of doing certain things, and programming would be one of those things, and so in this time when I found myself and my definition of myself unraveling, I needed to know that I was still capable of finding joy in the little things. So I went to this workshop, and I loved it. Like, my computer couldn't, like, do anything, so I actually found myself on a website called Repl.it, and it's basically, like, an online environment where you can write code and run it and see it work, and you don't necessarily need to have, like, mastery over your terminal, you don't need to concern yourself with anything that's going on on the backend. You can literally just, like, print "hello world," and it'll print hello world, and it is a magical, magical place. And this was important because first it showed me the value of creating. Never considered myself a creative, but being able to be in a space where I was literally, like, forming whole things and commanding the computer to do something and it did it, I felt powerful. I felt like a magician. I thought, "You know what? I'm gonna learn how to code," but then my computer died and I packed that up, and I didn't really pick up programming again for several months after and then came the end of October. I had, you know, moved out of my apartment at the time. Again, this, like, really, really scary thing had happened to me with my ex, and I had moved home, and I felt like a failure, and I was, like, laying in a sleeping bag next to my mom's bed, and I was up all night just, like, writing these promises to myself. I had sourced promises from other people, but the very first thing I could recall thinking was, like, "I want to be better. I want to be a better version of myself, and the gap between who I am now and the best version of myself can be bridged. I know it." So I thought "You know what? I'm gonna challenge myself. I'm gonna make these promises, and I'm going to keep t hem, and I'm going to find 24-year-old Ade to be a better version than 23-year-old Ade, period. No questions about it. I'm not doing this again." So I wrote those promises and I asked the people I love to hold me to them, and in the next year I moved out--like, I think three weeks after that I found another apartment, moved out to Alexandria, found a job that I really liked, and it all seemed to be coming together, but then my computer, the old rinky-dink computer, just died, and I didn't have a whole lot of, like, personal time, so programming just kind of went by the wayside. Like, I would pick it up every once in a while, and I would complete a couple of sessions or a couple of lessons, and that'd be that, but then I applied for this Udacity scholership and I got it, which, if you know anything about me it's that, like, I really don't win things very often, which goes into the narrative that you tell yourself about yourself, right? About whether or not you're a winner or whether or not you're deserving, whether or not, like, this life thing is a thing that you can succeed at. And, like, as a side-bar, negative self-talk has been a thing for me as long as I can remember. I have never been the sort of person who wakes up in the morning and is like, "You can do this. You're amazing. You're awesome. You can take anything that life throws at you," etc. A. I'm not a morning person, so, like, don't talk to me until 11:00 a.m., and B. I just never had the voices in my head that were, like, super positive. Like, all the voices in my head were kind of assholes. Sorry to whoever's listening to this and doesn't like bad words, but they were, and so throughout this process I've actually learned that, like, affirmations are a huge, huge, huge thing for your mental health, and it's something that I incorporate now into, like, my life. Like, affirmations. You need to hear yourself speaking well of yourself to yourself, and if you take nothing else from this podcast, take that. So we're back in, what is this, 2018? Yeah. Is it 2018? I don't think it's 2018. What is this, 2019? The years melt together. Yeah, it is 2018 actually. So in 2018 I have this fantastic job, friends, and I meet somebody new, and everything is going swimmingly, but I'm not truly, like, learning at the pace that I should be, so I'm going to tell you about the very first mistake that I think I made out of--the biggest mistake I made, not the very first one, because whoo, there were many. There were many, they were varied, and they were huge. Now the very first mistake I made was that I let myself get distracted. Life is not a distraction. Joy is not a distraction. Being social, letting yourself love and be love is not a distraction. What is a distraction is when you create a goal for yourself and you do not take the necessary steps in order to get there. Now, there were times throughout this journey--and anybody who knows me can attest to this--where I'd work a full work day and I'd come home and work until 2, 3, 4, 5:00 a.m. in the morning even studying, or I'd wake up at 2:00 a.m. and study all the way through, get dressed, go to work, come back home, continue studying. And I'm not saying that that's something that you have to do, I'm just saying that it's what I did. Then there were days where for, like, weeks at a time, I would not pick up a book. I would not open my Udacity course. None of those things. And allowing yourself to be distracted in that way is doing yourself a disservice, not only because your brain relies on consistency--like, you literally need consistency in order to get anywhere, right? Like, sometimes we have this fantasy in our heads that, like, we're smart, so all it'll take is, like, the movie montage of, like, a week of studying something, then you'll be perfect at it. But if you've ever heard of the tale of 10,000 hours, like... Lebron James and Gordon Ramsey and Insert Person Who Has A Mastery Of Their Art Here didn't get where they got because they put in a week of work. It required constant effort and practice to attain perfection, and allowing myself to get distracted was so much more detrimental than the times in which I would go at something for hours at a time, simply because during the distractions are where your negative self-talk becomes the loudest, right? Like, when the voices in your head that are telling you you're not capable of doing it, in that lull, that's when they seem right, right? Like, you don't do something correctly and you say, "Oh, my God. I'm never gonna amount to this lofty goal that I set for myself," right? Then you procrastinate and then you walk away, and now you have one more goal unfulfilled. So if you take, yet again, nothing else from this podcast, consistency is key. So if you remember at the beginning of this conversation I said "grit, faith, and humor." So grit is the concept that you are persistent, that you allow yourself to fail and you pick yourself up and you keep going. Actually, over the course of my studies I developed a mantra for myself because it got to be almost crippling, this fear that I had of failing, so I'm gonna read it to you guys. I hope it's helpful. I hope you guys like it. So here's my mantra: "This is why I'm here. I like succeeding at the difficult things. I like the win. I like the burning in my lungs and the adrenaline in my veins. I like the view from the top of the mountain and knowing I conquered. I am not a quitter. I do not lose. I will not be defeated by the gaps in my knowledge. I will not be defined by what I cannot do. I believe in my ability to make sense and wholeness out of the things that are new and scary. I will not be ruled by fear. Ever." There were days where I would write that mantra out to myself over and over and over again on a pen and a pad of paper. I would type that out before I got started sometimes on my lessons. I would read it over and over and over at myself in the mirror. Because fundamentally, this thing that I'm doing where I'm trying to, like, shift the course of my life--and it felt like the weight of my whole family was on my shoulders--that's scary. It's intimidating. If you don't have grit, it might crush you. And that goes for literally anything. For those of us who are underrepresented minorities, who are first-gen, who are the first in our families to attain a certain level of success, you know how scary that success is and the bare-knuckled grit that you have on everything to make sure that nothing falls and nothing fails. You have to let go of that. That fear is only keeping you from being the best version of yourself. By the way, this whole process didn't turn me into, like, a motivational speaker either. So [laughs] if you want to, like, skip through half of this, that's totally okay. I'm not taking offense. All right, so I told you why you need grit. Now why do you need faith? Faith got me through the worst of what grit couldn't. After I got to a place where, you know, I had done all of the things that people say that you need to do--you learn the fundamentals, and then you learn the framework, then you build projects, build more projects, build a portfolio, build more projects--after I did all that I started applying. I applied to internships. I applied to externships. I applied to jobs in Poland. I applied to jobs in Iceland. I applied to jobs that would require me to live in places where it's -20 degrees on a regular-degular-schmegular day, and I don't know if you know me, but I'm African, and we don't do that. [laughs] And every single time I got, like, a "No, thank you. Sorry, but no thank you. We have decided to move on to other candidates at this time. Best of luck." One that actually really shattered me--I got all the way through a lot of the screening questions, and this company that shall not be named sent me a link to a personality quiz. And I took it. I was like, "Okay, cool. Whatever." And then they sent me an email back like, "Sorry, your personality is not best-suited for my company." I'm like, "Wow. My whole personality, fam? My whole personality is not best-suited to be a software engineer? Bet." But I had faith, right? Like, you reach a plateau once you have done the work and you've put in the effort and you've put in your blood, sweat, and tears--I actually bled once. Long story. Don't want to talk about it. [laughs]--and yes, there were lots and lots of tears, but once you get there there's a certain faith that you have, right? And it helps when you have people around you who keep you keeping the faith. For me, I had my best friend. My best friend is also a self-taught developer, and it's really uncanny, but we're the same person. He has, like, 8 years on me, but we are genuinely, like, the same person. It is so odd. We have the exact same reactions to things, the same mentality, but he's a better version, right? Like, he's had 8 years to hone his craft. And the level of dedication and will that he showed, I had to level up. I had to match that level of intensity, and when I ever felt like I couldn't do it, he always came through with a pep talk. Before my very last interview where I got this position, I will never forget. I was on my way to my interview, and he literally said, "You're not looking for a job to be a developer. You are a developer. You're just looking for a chance to prove it." And that confidence I think showed up in my interview, because I have never spoken so confidently about MPC controllers. [laughs] I've never spoken so confidently about use-state hooks in my life. And that faith that I had that everything was gonna work out, I keep that still, right? Like, ever since I got the position, I've had the recurring thoughts of "What if I get there and I flame out? What if they rescind their offer three days before I get there?" You know, any number of, like, worst-case scenarios, and I now have this new voice--super quiet, but it's there--that's saying, "Bro, you'll be okay. The same way you got that job is the same way that if anything happens to that job you'll get another, because you've done the work. You've done the work and you've gotten this far. Doesn't matter what anybody else says now." So last thing you'll need is a sense of humor. You may have heard me chuckling a few times, and that's because I remember the number of days where I literally would have to get up in the middle of my studies and have a dance break. I would reward myself with dance breaks, whether or not my code was actually working, because I felt that because all of this was so heavy and because I needed to tap into my, like, inner wells of grit and strength that I did not have before I started this process--trust me, I was a wilting flower in the sun before any of this got started, and I'm still a wilting flower in the sun in a lot of ways, but--levity and humor are so underrated, because it literally lightens your spirit, right? Like, finding a way to find a way to laugh will take you far, not only because it shows that, like, you're still here, like, the core of your personality has not changed, it also shows that, like, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. You might feel like you're going through the crucible of your life at this point, but at the end of it life is still what you make it, right? And I just laugh through things. I choose to find the levity and find the joy and find the light and hold onto it, and that's all I'm gonna say about that. In whatever ways you find humor and find joy, I encourage you to hold onto that. So now some actionable tips, because I've just been giving you the feels. [laughs] Some real things that you can actually do if you want to be a developer. #1: Set a goal. That was the very first mistake that I made. I said, "I want to learn how to code." I didn't say, "I want to learn how to be a front-end developer or a back-end developer or a full-stack developer or a DevOps engineer." If you don't know what any of those things are, good. Go look them up. Anybody these days who asks me how they can break into tech, how they can learn how to code, how any of those things, the very first thing you need to do is define your goal, set it, and then develop your roadmap, because otherwise you are literally going to be twisting in the wind because you have no idea where you're going. There's nothing worse than a nebulous understanding of what you want. If you start a journey, you have to know where you're going. I mean, sure, you can do what I did and, like, get in the car and say, "I want to go somewhere," and, like, find yourself stranded in the middle of Oklahoma... but, like, I wouldn't advise that. Don't do that. Do it the smart way. Define what you actually want to do. Sometimes you might, like, look up what front-end developers do and be like, "Yeaaaaaaaah, no. How about I go into cybersecurity?" Like, it's an entire about-face, which is why you need to--it's a good thing to do to define the parameters. It also helps you know when you have succeeded, right? A lot of the fear that I had when I first started to apply to positions was that, like, I don't know that I'm a developer yet, right? I don't know that I'm good enough to apply to places, and that's because I never defined for myself what it means to be good enough to apply to places, right? There are places that will take you when you are, like, an unformed ball of Play-Do and fashion a developer out of you, and then there are places that want you to show up as Michelangelo's David and then, and only then, will they give you a position in the company, and then there are places that are vastly varied in-between and you have to figure out what it means to, like, throw your dart at one of those places in-between or, you know, whatever end of the spectrum you want to live in, and know that you're able to get into those doors. Set a goal. #2: It is okay to reassess or change your mind. When I first got started, I said, "I'm gonna be a front-end developer." Actually, no, I said, "I'm gonna be a full-stack developer," and then I said, "I want to be a blockchain engineer." And then I said, "I don't want to do this at all actually. Never mind. I change my mind." And then I said, "You know what? Being a full-stack engineer sounds good. How about I do that?" You can do that, just make sure it all goes back to #1. Make sure that once you've changed your mind, once you've reassessed, once you've course-corrected, you still set a goal and define for yourself what it means to have reached it. Cool. #3: Learn from others. I cannot stress this enough. Learn from others. Learn. Learn from others. Quick ASMR for your head top. Learn from others. It's important. A. This is an industry, tech in general, that is far more collaborative than you might think it is. If the idea you have of hackers in your head is the person who's, like, in a basement somewhere and frantically, like, typing on their keyboard and I don't understand how they haven't broken their keyboard, but they're frantically typing and you see a whole bunch of, like, green letters and numbers on their screen, and it's great, and then, like, five seconds after they stop typing--[Ade types frantically]--"Got it! I'm in." Yeah, no. That's... no. If I'm typing that furiously, it's because I'm looking around on StackOverflow trying to figure out where I went wrong. There are whole communities on Reddit, StackOverflow, Free Code Camp, which are geared towards helping you not sit and look for six hours for an answer to a question that 100 million people have also spent six hours searching for an answer to. Like, you literally can go to StackOverflow or, like, type out whatever your error is, and then at the end of your error type "StackOverflow," and I can almost guarantee you--like, you're not the first person to break whatever it is that you broke. There is nothing new under the sun. Maybe a new language, maybe a new framework, maybe a new whatever, but there is something that is so new that somebody else hasn't thought about it, asked that question and probably solved it. So yeah, allow the successes and failures of others to help inform you. Learning from others is not just about being online. Part of the thing that helped me, I went to meet-ups. I actually briefly served as an organizer for Black Code Collective, which, like, will forever have my heart. Women Who Code, [?]. There's so many different meet-ups. And, you know, D.C.'s not unique in having those organizations. They're all over. Go to meetup.com, as long as it exists, and look for those communities near you, and be intentional about the workshops that you go to, the people that you meet, because those networks are also important. You do not have the luxury, if you're a self-taught developer, of sitting back and waiting for the universe to, like, drop knowledge or networks or contacts or jobs into your lap. You have to do the legwork of developing and building those communities for yourself, which brings me to my final point. Standing on the shoulders of giants still requires you to do the work. I'm gonna repeat that because I kind of said it fast. Standing on the shoulders of giants still requires you to do the work. One more time for those in the back. Standing on the shoulders of giants still requires you to do the work. You have to do the work. There are no shortcuts through it. I'm not one of those people that, like, tells you, "You have to work 50, 60 hour weeks in order to get where I am." I'm telling you what I did. But there's something universal about what anybody else has done. You have to do the work. We all have done the work. We're going to continue doing the work, because this is not an industry that stagnates. I'm sure whatever I learned back in 2018--I mean, literally, what I learned in 2018 about React has changed because of React Hooks. So I don't know what to tell you. You have to do the work. There's nobody who's gonna, like, come and crack your skull open and dump all that there is to know about programming in your head or whatever it is that you want to study, whether you want to be, like, in cybersecurity, you want to be a PIN tester, you want to be a cloud engineer, cloud architect. None of those things are going to happen unless you do the work. You have to do the work, and for those of us--this is a part that I hate having to say, but for those of us who are underrepresented minorities, you will hear people say "Take shots that mediocre white men will take," because, you know, "They're a mediocre white man and they'll take it, so why can't you?" I'm not saying you can't. I'm saying that you have to pull up to those rooms as the person that you are because they will check you in ways that they won't check the mediocre white man. If there are gaps in your knowledge, that's something that a weekend of studying can fix. You cannot allow there to be gaps in your will. You cannot allow there to be gaps in your faith in yourself. Well, yeah, that comes right back to the very first thing that I mentioned - grit, faith, and humor. You cannot allow there to be gaps in any of those things. I hope this helped. I am also gonna be writing a thread about this later on. There's a thread out there, it's called #30DaysOfThreads, and I'm probably gonna be contributing to that hashtag just to share more concretely some of the tools, some of the resources that I've used, so I look forward to sharing some of that information with y'all. I really hoped that this helped and I wasn't just, like, ranting for no reason. [laughs] Which I've been known to do, and I hope that, for those of you who are going on a similar journey--and this has been pretty tech-specific thus far, but people do career pivots in any sort of direction, right? Like, there are people who are pivoting from having a 9-to-5 to being an entrepreneur, and I think there's some things that are universal. If you are pivoting from being a banker to being a teacher, there's some things that are universal. You are going to need grit. You are going to need faith. You are going to need humor. Maybe that should be the title of the show, I don't know. [laughs] All right, that's it from me. Thank you for listening. The Living Corporate family has been incredibly supportive. I want to thank Zach in particular for not giving up on me, because somewhere between all of those months--I think there were months at a time that I gave up on myself, and it showed, [laughs] but we're here now. I also want to give a quick shout-out to my grandma, who died I think two weeks before--was it two weeks? Yeah, two weeks before I actually got this position, and now I'm gonna be a little teary on the mic. Like I said, 2019 was a hard one, but... I come from a very long line of powerful, intelligent, capable women, and she was one of those, and the world is a slightly dimmer place without her, but... I gained an angel, and there's nothing more empowering than knowing that you did this thing, turned everything around for yourself, and being able to, like, look up and say, "I did it, and I know that she saw it." Okay, I'm gonna stop now. I've been, like, more vulnerable in this I want to say 40+ minutes than I've been in, like, a year, so this is my dose of vulnerability and realness. I'm gonna go back to masking my vulnerability with many, many things that I'm not gonna be discussing on this podcast. [laughs] All right, I'm gonna go. Thank you so much for listening, for your support, for your guidance, for your prayers. This has been Ade. You've been listening to Living Corporate. Peace!

Hello babies!  Happy Turkey Week! On today's episode, Lisa rants about holiday gift guides and Emily is still interested in gardening. We read the Wikipedia page for Tempest Prognosticator. In Honor of Emily's Endorse Horse selection this week, the rest of this episode description will be written by AI: This week, it's a horse you don't even recognize. Emily finally got her next cavalry addition. We spend most of last week on horse stuff, and it seemed to get me cranky after a while. You know, not as cranky as one of our male visitors, but just a little cranky nonetheless. If I'm a pack animal, Emily's Horses are the same. Aww

Carrie Mae Weems always knew she was going to be an artist, but she didn't know she wanted to be a photographer until she got her first camera in her late teens. It was a gift from a boyfriend who turned out to be "manipulative," but it launched her into a career that's made her a MacArthur Fellow and the first black woman to have a retrospective at the Guggenheim Museum. As she tells this week's guest host, author Tayari Jones, her professional drive has always been the barometer against which she's measured her personal relationships. "If I'm entering a relationship [and] struggling around notions of my ability to work, then it's not a relationship that I can stay in," she says. "I already see the handwriting is on the wall." Together, they talk about balancing that ambition with the relationships in their lives that matter. Plus, Carrie explains why she drank someone else's champagne on her wedding day. This episode is part of Death, Sex & Money's 2019 Maternity Leave Lineup. Tayari Jones first joined us on the show in 2018 to talk about the freedoms of singlehood, and the call from Oprah that changed everything for her.