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James Layfield is an entrepreneur and investor creating positive change through innovation in sectors ranging from property to financial technology. Most recently, James co-founded Clearfind, an easy-to-use, unbiased artificial intelligence platform that is changing the way companies manage and optimize software with data. James is a general partner in a fintech investment fund Treasury with the cofounders of Acorns, Betterment, and a board member of Paypal, and has angel investments across a host of technology ventures. James has founded and led multiple successful companies including Rise, the world’s largest fintech innovation platform, with Barclays; Never Ever Limited, an innovation catalyst and consulting agency; and Central Working, a shared workspace hub for business professionals. James is currently an ambassador for CognitionX the AI event, London and Partners, and the ScaleUp Institute. He also serves as the New York Tech Ambassador for the Mayor of London.   Most passionate about The thing that I'm working on right now is something that I've been exploring for the last four years, in a really interesting area of the world: software. I'm working on a company called Clearfind. We’re here to help people bring software into their company as effectively as possible and manage and reduce the cost of the software. James’s career and story I think of myself as a serial entrepreneur. I've always been driven by an absolute passion to try and solve problems that I have faced in my life. I basically created the idea of co-working in the UK, even before the work came around, which is quite exciting, through financial technology. I've been working in financial technology for the last 10 years with some of the biggest banks in the world. The number of available options in the market has increased exponentially and yet the tools with which to navigate it are the same. That's why there is this beautiful, cool area for tool like clarified. We're bringing that together with AI so that we can augment people in their jobs to make consistently smarter decisions. We think we've excelled at that. The first three years of our journey were spent working out how to do the software and then gathering that data. We only launched it in October of last year. We’re a four-year-old company that has been selling since October of last year. The reason is that it's really hard to do the thing that we've managed to do. Once we went to market, we found that this resonates with that audience of companies spending between three and 10 million a year and also with consultants. We have a couple of the world's largest consultancy firms working with us and are already getting some great results. On top of that, we have companies from many different sectors, from finance and banking to biotech and high-tech. Among all of these organizations, the commonality is the amount of money they're spending annually on software and the complexity of the ecosystem. Best advice for entrepreneurs I think basically to listen. I have to constantly remind myself of that. What we're doing is going back through the real insights that we have in our business from our real customers and opening our ears to listen to what they're telling us. You then start to adapt and change your messaging and product in a way that's going to resonate with them. The biggest, most critical failure with customers Many years ago, one of my first ever ventures was an experiential creative agency. We had just gotten to the final stages of hopefully about to win Microsoft. We were meeting the people whom you never want to meet when you're trying to sell someone, which is the procurement team. We want us both to come away really happy with this deal. That's where my little ego became a nightmare. I said, “I think the pricing is really fair right now, but are you sure you want me to look at what a fair price would be?” Absolutely. I got off the phone and like the absolute...

**Silent Bob is Silent no more! Director Kevin Smith brings his Mooby's Pop-up to Boston at House of Blues for a limited engagement. We got a chance to sit down with him and talk all the nerdy tidbits about Stan Lee, his upcoming Masters of the Universe: Revelation, helping restaurant workers in the pandemic, and his shot-from home sitcom, Son in Lockdown featuring his entire family and introducing Austin Zajur.** Snootch to the Bootch! Do617: So good to see you. you don't mind being on video, do you?. Kevin Smith: Not at all. That's why I wore the funny hat! By the way, I'm still happy to see you. Trying to stay alive, man. The restaurant business doesn't make it easy though. Because, suddenly, you get access to free food where you're like, "I'll take three orders of Hater Tots"! "I'm the man" Why not? It's my place. Free food! How are you feeling? Feeling good? I'm feeling fantastic. It's been, just past the three-year mark since the heart attack knocks wood you know, so far so good. Thanks for coming to Boston. Lovely to be here, man. Boston has always been a big part of everything. I was just telling my wife today. I was like, the first time I came to the Commonwealth was with Clerks. Like even though I lived in New Jersey, I'd never come up to Massachusetts. There was no call for it and stuff. Yeah. It was from Philly to New York. They're close. Boston's like a three-hour drive. So it wasn't until Clerks that I came to the city with the Boston Film Festival and then I kept going back and like, Chasing Amy and Dogma and stuff like that. And the boys are from here. And the boys being from here! You know, me and Scott (Moser) were involved with Good Will Hunting as well. So there's, always a wonderful tie to the city, to the community. Also, this is a big college town and at one point in my career, I was "The College Guy". Yeah. You're my "College Guy", I suppose. I went to MassArt right down the street from here. In the Nineties, we were looking up to you, man. You've been inspiring people forever. You were so close with Stan Lee, I got to interview Stan it was an honor. an honor. You've always said good things and, and you were taking care of him. And I just want to say, I appreciate that you did that. What a great life. So the thing about the loss that breaks the heart is he was a vital 90-year-old and he didn't have that the last year or two years of his life, the way. He was kind of tossed around and literally suffered from elder abuse. That shaved years off his life. He was so vital, but there came a certain point where he's not only was he has physically beaten down but just the thought of like, "this is what it's come to". How could you do that to everyone's Grampa? So, you know what I'm saying, who gave so much joy in his lifetime, but at least, you know, he had that entire ten-year period of Marvel cameos, where at the end of his life, he got celebrated by the entire world. Everybody knows his name, even people that never heard of him before were, "Oh, that's Spider-Man's baby daddy". You know, maybe it was your idea to put him in the films? I remember seeing them in a movie years ago. Yeah. That was, for us, it was a no-brainer. Cause you got a movie about a guy that loves comic books. You got to Stan... Perfect marriage. And when we did it, I remember the movie came out in '95, there was just like, "Oh, Who? Stan Lee? That's quaint". You know, years later it became. A stamp of quality. I love seeing him in that movie. He's younger, obviously. I remember when he came to work with us, they were telling us "you gotta be careful, man, because this man is 73 years and he can go at any point". And he lasted another 23 years! *God bless him, man. Well, another thing, you've come here to Boston, to the restaurant at the House of Blues, which is a great venue. Lots of people, we've been out of work, but there are ways that people can keep it going. I appreciate that you came here to help us out. * I first heard of the Mooby's Pop-Up in the show that you did, Son in Lockdown and, that was just such a great thing to have your wife at that and Harley and Austin. Was it fun to just shoot if you're own your house? It was so adorable, especially considering it was in the middle of the quarantine and nobody was doing anything. So this TBS show Celebrity Show-Off presented itself as an opportunity. And they were like, "you can do anything you want, we're gonna give you a camera, shoot, whatever you want". And I was like, "can I shoot a sitcom"? They're like, "absolutely go ahead". So the entire town was shut down and you know, it's dopey to say, but we were literally the only sitcom in town that was shooting. It was a weird moment and it was fun to do it. It's the best job in the world, you don't even have to get dressed and drive to the studio. You wake up and you weren't in the studio. So it was such a good time! But it was a Kevin Smith joint, man! It was really, really funny Austin is such a rockstar! He's great. I put him in Clerks III... Do you have any updates, about Masters of the Universe: Revelation? I think the first time folks are going to see any imagery is coming up in May. We're in April right now. So next month. Do you like animation? I love it. It's phenomenal. The boys at Powerhouse Animation did a wonderful, wonderful job. They do_ Castlevania_ on Netflix, Seis Manos, Blood of Zeus. So all the characters look exactly the way they're supposed to. They just look like they were drawn now as opposed to the '80s. And so hey, if you want to talk about people who elevate it, man. I love the scripts that we came up with, but Powerhouse absolutely knocked it out of the park. They elevated our scripts and made far better cartoons than we provided them the "word power" to do so. Watching the whole thing come together, man. Because so many people work on it from your writing staff to then, your recording, and the vocal tracks. Then it all gets handed over to the animators and they do. iI's like movie making and it's like comic books at the same time. What's really wonderful about it is when you're working on a movie or something or a TV show, you know, you're seeing results on a regular basis because you're doing it. You got this window of time to do it when you're just the writer or showrunner on this animated series. My main job of just "let's get this thing written" was done early for us, it was the first job done. So I go about my life and then every few days there's a delivery of an art pack and you're like, "Holy shit". They drew all the characters and then as time goes on, it's like, "here's the first animatic". "Here's the second animatic". "This animatic is locked. Here's the automatics for episode two". Episode three, four. Oh my God. The finished animation for episode one is coming in. So it's this, this waterfall of productivity that you have nothing to do, with, other than getting to appreciate it. You wrote and your part is done. I mean, you can't go and make a script change. We can, as long as "lip flap" is off-camera. That continued and as much as periodically, we need to pick up these lines, we need to add new lines. Netflix thinks this needs clarity. So then you come up with that stuff and make that work and stuff. So you might need to even make new scenes, etc... Generally, it's not too deep in the process and going like, "Oh, I'm gonna write a whole new scene". if you do that, it's a big deal because the process is eight to ten months in. And once it starts going, it starts going, but being at the receiving end of all, the joy, the here's what Battle Cat looks like, you know, Oh my God, this is what Evil-Lyn looks like. This is what Evil-Lyn looks like with the helmet off. Every design before actually beginning to see the animatics and the animatics is the barest form. It's a digital storyboard or a moving storyboard. And even those were so pretty. I was like, "we could air this, fuck finishing, let's air this"! Let's just say thankfully Powerhouse push to finish it because the finished product is gorgeous. You can't just put out the pencils, you gotta ink this thing! I would! I come from comics, so I like when they do. So I love when they do Batman Black and White and just letters inked and pencils version. So I could have dealt with it, but people will be delighted to see how colorful the whole thing is. *Not for nothing. I love your Green Hornet. It was so great, I didn't expect to like the character, I mean, I liked what you did in comics, but I was just like, "Oh, this is a really great thing". It was drawn really awesome. * Jonathan Lau, man. He made that him and Phil. Phil Hester took my stuff and then he broke it down. Um, but wow. They turned it into a beautiful book. What was so satisfying about that for me was at the end of when I read all the books together, all the comics together... I was like, "It would have worked. We could have pulled that off as a movie!" Somebody could have, not me! *Absolutely. And coming up with comics and you are reading Batman, you are reading Spider-Man. You don't think of Green Hornet for comics, but you can do something cool with it. I could talk to you all day! * I tried to come up with the best "Cantina" question for you, one that I would ask on your podcast Fatman Beyond and not be embarrassed. But before I get to that, I watched the scene last night with the Ball Lickers, on the "Mooby's Internet" internet. So, you know, people get a chance to come down here and they can... ...and actually relive it. You are the ones who are the Ball Lickers! They can just do that from their phones! That was just so funny. But my, my "Ultimate Cantina Question" is about the Snyder Cut! Let's say Warner or whoever gives you $30 million dollars to redo a Kevin Smith movie, or to redo the CGI. What Kevin Smith movie would you give the #SnyderCut treatment to? Is it Tusk? I would go Red State. I would just shoot the ending. We cheaped out at the ending because we don't have any money. So, the ending was supposed to be the apocalypse. Angels showing up, slaying people and shit like that, these giant angels. So at a certain point, we were like "Alright, do you want to shoot the ending of that movie and that ending?" "Do you want to wait to shoot that movie in that ending for however long it takes to find the money for it?" "...or do you want to shoot a version of the movie now where you've let go of the supernatural element that was in the last scene?" So then I changed it to him being over the loudspeaker and "it was a hoax and blah, blah, blah". So if I had like #SnyderCut money, I'd go back and I would shoot the angels show up, ending like the apocalyptic world ending. I'd have a lot of money left over! But I think that would be the one that I would love to take in the direction of the original vision. And I love Red State what it became and stuff, but that ending would have been so fucking weird. Do617: Well, you know, when people after seeing this interview, they might demand the release of the #SnyderCut of Red State. KS: Release the #RedderCut! Yes! Well, I'm just so happy to talk to you, man. I'm really excited to be here at Mooby's. Thanks for helping out Boston. Thanks for helping out everybody here at the House of Blues Restaurant and, everybody makes a couple of bucks and people can have some fun doing it because you came here. I think this is a perfect time. just about to open up. This is like a preview. This is a preview of the good time for the summer that's going to come. They were asking me when I rented the car today, when I was leaving Logan, the lady was like "You're from, California, how is it about there? I was like "the exact same thing as it is here. You guys are about to open". That's been the fun part of taking Mooby's around the country is that it's always at a restaurant that's been closed for a while. So it's good for the business. It's also good for the staff morale. You can forget when you're in the restaurant business, your friends are your coworkers, you see them every day. A lot of folks haven't seen their friends for a year and stuff. "Zoom Cocktail Hour" just doesn't cut it. It really, really doesn't at the end of the day. At the end of the day, being in a room with people, human interaction, I'm not saying you got to lick each other's faces and shit..being in a room with people and talking and nothing will replace it. Well, thanks so much, Kevin. It's an honor, man! Damn pleasure man! ** BUY TICKETS AT THE LINK ABOVE AND LEARN MORE: http://moobyspopup.com (http://moobyspopup.com)** Special Guest: Kevin Smith.

Have you ever thought that you could become a better version of yourself using numerology? Do you feel that you’re capable of living way more through spirituality? You’re doing a lot, but nothing seems to work out. People like living the same monotonous life and choose mediocrity every day. But you realize you can do way more and are capable of achieving greater heights? Here’s the hard truth: you need to set in place things that you believe in and focus on them rigorously. In this episode, we are joined by Craig Wright where he talks about his experience with numerology and spirituality. Tune in to this episode to learn more about this whole new array of things and how to get your hands-on it. Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: Understand the different ways numerology can have an effect in your lives. Discover the importance of spirituality and numerology in ones life. Learn the significance of numerology in daily lives. Episode Highlights [01:41] Freewill & The Self · Each of us has a contract with our creator, which consists of the gifts that we receive and the promise that we make. ● Craig talks about numerology and free will and how it leads to different things. ● Everyone knows what it is like to be numero uno but every number has a meaning of its own. [08:11] The Start ● Craig talks about how his journey began and explains his ‘Wake Up Call.’ ● He also talks about his set of realizations from when his best friend died and how he found himself. ● “Why am I here?”, “What is the meaning of life?” are some of the many questions he began asking himself after the demise of his Best Man. ● He talks about the book “In search of the third eye” and his journey of discovery from there. [17:53] Levels of Acceptance ● After Craig discovered himself, he became his first client. ● Craig talks about how he ditched being a pilot and get out on this spiritual journey which further expanded into numerology. ● Craig discusses his analogy of the number four. [29:09] The Journey ● Craig talks about how things didn’t work out for him in the beginning but everything started to fall in place once he started reading. ● He talks about how he started receiving information from the universe and the hints to help people out. ● Talks about how he ventured viral and started as a numerologist. [35:00] Making a living ● Talks about how he started his services out as a labor of love and used to give seminars where no one showed up. ● Today, he successfully runs workshops, teaches at a local community college, and creates curriculums. [42:50] Cultivating Yourself ● The mind is very eager to see and the universe puts things in place for you. Powerful Quotes from the Episode “There is a difference between figures and numbers.” About Craig Craig Wright is a native of Baltimore, Maryland where he studied religion and philosophy in his youth as a member of the Baltimore Ethical Society. He holds degrees in Psychology and Metaphysics. He is an Ordained Metaphysical Minister and a Certified Metaphysical Practitioner. It was the tragic death of a friend in the summer of 1972 that prompted Craig to search for the meaning of life. This began his study of NUMEROLOGY. After many years of personal research, Craig went public in 1988. This was the year he met Rev. Hazell Cassell and was invited to be a guest on her radio program. Craig's presentation on Numerology generated so much excitement that people began to ask him to share his knowledge about this fascinating science. The momentum has continued to grow. Craig's services have been sought nationally and internationally. He has served as a resource to several Human Service Agencies by conducting seminars and workshops. He has a wide array of clientele who consult with him regularly on personal as well as business matters. Connect with Craig here: http://www.craigewright.com Enjoy this Podcast? It’s easy to show the side of ourselves we’re proud of. But true change and self-love come with being able to accept all of you—even the sides you’re afraid to show the world. If you enjoyed today's episode of Spiritual Dope Podcast, then hit subscribe and share it with your friends! Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can take a big hit of spiritual dope! Transcript auto generated by otter.ai Brandon Handley 0:00 All right, well, let's get on that. And 54321 Unknown Speaker 0:07 Hey, there's Brandon Handley 0:07 spiritual dope. I'm on today with Dr. Craig. He right. He's a native of Baltimore, Maryland, where he studied religion and philosophy in his youth. As a member of the Baltimore ethical society. He holds degrees in psychology, and metaphysics. He's an ordained metaphysical minister and a certified metaphysical practitioner, we're going to talk a little bit about a story is how you got there. So I'm gonna leave that out. But one of the big things that we're gonna be talking about is numerology kind of how you went public with your story, you know, the radio show that you were on for quite some time. And just unless we're gonna talk about, you know, the, the journey. So Dr. Craig Wright, thank you so much for being on here today, how I like to start these off is with the idea that you and I are here, connecting, and sources, you know, kind of put us in this time in this place in this space, so that a message can flow through you to somebody in the audience today. What does that message just come through, you Unknown Speaker 1:12 know, that message would be, each of us has a contract with our Creator with source doesn't matter what name you use, God has 1000s of names depending on the culture you're from. But each of us has a contract with source, and that we are giving gifts. And we make a promise, the contract has come out composed of gifts that we received, and a promise that we make, and that information is is available, because it shows up in the numbers and our birthday, in the letters in our lay. Brandon Handley 1:53 That's powerful. So it's interesting to me. And of course, the first thing that comes to my mind is we were talking you know, we connected online and you mentioned like this show to be on the show. And one of the first things that kind of comes into my mind though about numerology that i i think that you know, some of the naysayers, right would say, Well, if it's all in the numbers, is it all predetermined? Right, or, you know, what happens after? You know, you give me the some numbers? Is it fatalistic? Is it something else? Unknown Speaker 2:30 Well, no numerology does not rob us of our free will. For example, if you're born on the first of any month, one of your gifts is leadership. Everybody knows that number one. So you could be an engineer, you could be a pilot, you could be a fashion designer. But whatever you decide to be using your free will, you're going to be the cutting edge, and you're going to be the best at it. So the number one will reveal your creativity that you're here to be an originator, not an imitator, you're here to lead not to follow. And more than likely, if you're born on the first 10th 19th or 28th of any month, you're going to have opportunities to become self employed. Those are the number ones. If I may, at this point, it's important that we realize there's a difference between figures and numbers. If I hold up a pin, and I say I have one pin, that would be a quantity. In this case, number one, this is a figure a quantity. But if I look a little closer, and I say big pins are number one. Now I'm no longer talking about a quantity, but a quality, at least in my opinion of being the best. So everybody knows what it means to be numero uno, but every number has a meaning or every number reveals a spiritual quality, a spiritual quality. So getting back to your question. No, it's not fatalistic. For example, it'll tell you, hey, it's springtime, time to plant but you can plant that is tomatoes, okra, corn, whatever you choose. But you don't want to plant in January. What is freezing? So that's the benefit of numerology. Brandon Handley 4:25 I gotcha. I gotcha. That makes sense. So I want to I definitely want to talk a little bit about your journey into this space. You know, it kind of happened, right? You got a new tragic death of a friend, your best man for your wedding, if I recall correctly. Yeah. And and yeah, let's just talk about an area. You know, let's talk about kind of how that hits you. And what you did, how that how that kind of spurned your journey. Unknown Speaker 4:54 That was my that was my wake up call, if you will, for my call. to spirituality. I showed a propensity for math and science when in seventh grade, my parents decided they were going to have an engineer in the fam. My mother was a schoolteacher. So I was never out of school, math, science, every program, summer school, anything having to do with math and science. I was there. I was preparing to become a jet pilot. I wanted to fly jets with the Navy. By the seventh grade, I knew every jet they own. I knew what what armament they had, what caliber machine guns, they had, oh, I was prepared to become a technocrat. I didn't I wasn't a believer. At that time. If you couldn't measure it, quantify it. I was able to, to we say figures, not numbers at that. But when my best friend was from a drug overdose, Brandon and I didn't even know he was using. So they told me a lot about myself. I was too self absorbed. I wasn't paying attention to anything around me. And it also told me that it started my search for life, I began to ask those tough questions. Why am I here? What's the meaning of life is going to be this arbitrary? Take me now I don't want this pain anymore. And I gotta tell you, that happened when I was 21 years old. And I've never really had a allow myself to get that close to another individual since then. But what did happen was, I begin to pray for the very first time, and I begin to ask the universe, why am I here? What's the meaning of life? And the answer came back to me in a form that I would understand. I just was in a state of of yearning and wanting to know, and I heard a song that was on our radios, it was called in search of the Third Eye by a man who just play some of his music won won the Super Bowl this year. Roy airs. So this song mystify me search for the third eye, what's that all about? The lyrics were sequence of numbers can be found secrets of wisdom can be found. So this was before Amazon and Google, it took me two years to get a copy of that book. After both are bought the album, read the cover, took me two years to get the book. But once I got my hands on it, it was called in search of the Third Eye by various family order. And this was a book the artists read, who compose the song. So I'm reading the book now, on one from the song to the artists to the book, in the book was talking about the secrets of numbers. And I discovered, I was a number seven. And that the purpose of my life was to study the meaning of life and share it with others. I was like, oh, my goodness, that's what I'm doing. So I realized that there is no greater love that a friend has this is how I rationalized his passing. Because Scripture says there's no greater love than a friend later in his life. So I said, Okay, I'm gonna change because of his passing. And I started going to the Library of Congress, reading everything I could get my hands on, about the sequence of numbers. Now you can go to the library and find 20 books on the shelf. There's even a there's even a numerologist for Dummies. But back in 1972, if you want to read about numerology, you had to go to the Library of Congress and study the journeys of Protagoras, how he went to the Mystery Schools in Egypt and study with the Masters there, who taught using the oral tradition. And then he came back and shared what he learned. And the Greeks became famous. Brandon Handley 8:56 And I love that as it's, um, you know, one of the one of the quotes that you one of the things you're referencing already was something that I believe you found from Pythagoras, right? was the idea that there's a difference between figures and numbers, right? Yes. Unknown Speaker 9:12 And Brandon Handley 9:14 I know you've already kind of illustrated so yeah, absolutely. Right right now on touch touch of the finger, you know, you know, you sent me your book and an email right, I was able to read like numerology information, touch of a finger. I can go to Amazon and I've got something on Kindle instantaneously. Yes, I go download like these great, you know, these great mysteries and, you know, moments as soon as soon as it comes to my mind, but what I think is interesting so far, right? Is that here's this, you know, arbitrary song that plays, right, this strikes a chord for you, and sets you on your path. Unknown Speaker 9:54 Yeah, amazing, right? sequence of numbers. This The only way I could have, I could have even accepted the concept that there was a higher being and that it was influenced my life in any way. And it was a tremendous wake up call, you know, and it came to me, not from some guy up on the pulpit in a in a yellow suit. Gallery, right. It came to me through my own research. In a call a discovery, no one else knew what I was doing, or what I was, when I was pursuing. It spoke to me, it fed me in a manner that I was ready to receive through numbers. It was the only way in for me. Brandon Handley 10:49 Yeah, no doubt, no doubt, right? No, I also gotta imagine like Baltimore. You grew up in Baltimore. Was it the city proper? Or was it the suburbs? Yeah, I Unknown Speaker 11:00 grew up in Baltimore City. Brandon Handley 11:01 Yeah, yes. I mean, you know, city city proper. It's no doubt like, especially in that time to that. It's really a good idea to run around and talk about being spiritual, right? Especially as a male, right, and it's right, and in that city environment. And then, you know, the scientist, you're not even just spirituality or things, you know, easy. Or, then now you're throwing in numerology tonight, you're like, Well, does not just spiritual, but like, let's, let's, let's do numbers, too, right. And I think that that can be, you know, that can that can throw people off to I imagine, just Unknown Speaker 11:39 did Brandon Handley 11:40 levels of acceptance, right, you know, what, what people are willing to accept? And and, you know, so Unknown Speaker 11:46 very true. That's very true. Brandon Handley 11:48 So when did you become a pilot? Unknown Speaker 11:53 No, after my, my discovery, after my friend passed, and I discovered numerology, I became my first client. And I began to, instead of going to the Air Force is setting engineering, I went to seminary, I went to the seminary. I thought that was my calling. But what happened was, once I got into seminary, I discovered, there really wasn't a search for God there. They had already done the surgeon and everything figured out, they wanted to make sure you were saying the right things before you could get their degree. Brandon Handley 12:34 Yeah, that's I think that's the challenge to have spirituality slash religion, right. I mean, that's, I think, one of the one of the reasons for spiritual dope, right, the podcasts? Because, like, let's, let's have a conversation about spirituality that isn't previously dictated to us as whether or not this is acceptable or not. Right. Exactly. And so you found you found that they were just trying to dictate to you, you know, here's the right way to say it. Right. Is that is that kind of what exactly, Unknown Speaker 13:05 that's exactly right. I was getting good grades, because, technically, my, my writing skills and my, my research was spot on, they, they could not deny what I was saying, I was finding evidence of reincarnation, I was finding evidence of numerology how every time the number 40 shows up, for stands for order, and zero is a symbol for God. So every time a number 40 show up, God was establishing a new order, 40 days and 40 nights of rain, 40 years of wandering in the desert. And each time that number precipitated a tick or change, that God was bringing a new order, so that I was getting good grades, but I was very uncomfortable there. Because it was like swimming upstream. So Brandon Handley 13:56 one second real quick there, cuz I've been, I've been on the number 40 for like, years now. I'm like, what, because it's always showing up, just like he said, I'm like, there's gotta be something, right. Like, there's got to be something because there's 40 days, 40 nights, there's, you know, the, the whatever, but I also call it to age, like, when we turn 40 like, there's a massive shift, right? Like, you know, there's a massive shift and kind of who, you know, a lot of us are and and i think that you know, 40 is illustrated in my take on 40 has always been like, you know, these are the signals like it doesn't always have to be the ages and years but also kind of what you know what you're saying there's numerology, numerology there, but in my mind the most well, that's just like the signal like age 40. Like, you know, you're gonna ask, I'm really serious, right? Yeah, something's gonna change in 40 days and 40 nights, you know, be ready, you know. So that's really interesting. Thanks for thanks for sharing that. It's been on my mind for literally a few years now. So thank you. Unknown Speaker 15:00 So my body was I called a picture. That's right. That's spirit, isn't it? That's it. That's it. So for us, they asked for order. If you think in terms of Adam being one is being too with one or two fit together, there's tears, there's three, right? So you can't have a kid crawling around. So you put them inside the playpen, so forth sided figure. So you have some order you get your work done. Unknown Speaker 15:24 is great. Brandon Handley 15:25 Yeah, I love you know, so one of the things I love about, you know, finding and establishing a pattern order, and you're doing it with like numbers, you you, you begin to, you begin to apply it anywhere, right, you get a you get a certain kind of set of knowledge, and now you're able to apply it and in so many different facets, that without any of that knowledge, you can't, right. So you know, that's Unknown Speaker 15:48 exactly right. Yeah, especially that number for the 40 minutes, when it comes to a home, fixing, mending and repairing. So whenever my clients contact me with an address, like 2102, number 1921, apartment B, I always tell them to avoid a house with the number four, unless they're prepared to do a lot of work on it. And a lot of renovating it, keeping it a Brandon Handley 16:16 you know, keeping it a casino because it's a good one to keep in mind as I'm in moving to my next place here shortly. So I'll keep in mind that to keep the number four out of the equation. For sure. So, you, you know, you took this kind of, um, you know, even at the age of 21, coming out of Baltimore, young excited, man, I gotta imagine, like, you know, even spirituality, right, like, that's still tough grab. And so you follow through seminary and into what just trying to follow the journey? Unknown Speaker 16:51 Well, seminary didn't work out too well, for me, I just, I was just there one semester kereta a 3.7. But um, after that, I started going to the Library of Congress and studying on my own, studying the information that I was being called to. It was just fascinating. He was like, it was food it was, it was the answer. It was what I was looking at before. And it was telling me all the questions I had while I was here, what I was supposed to do, and I was studying it and learning from it. And after a while I started getting clues from source to share. I will be in a checkout line. And I will see someone's name on their on their name tag. And I will hear information. If I read in a computer, I will hear information about I can't hear you information about it. I'm gonna share a little later, but this is how it started to happen. And and I wouldn't, I didn't know what it was, I was afraid. So literally, I heard a voice tell me you have the gift of discernment do not wish I had to go look it up. I didn't know what this tournament meant. So I had to go look that up and say, Okay, I'm going to be getting some information from from what I've been studying now. Now I've reached a certain level, now the university is going to start using me. So my heart's pounding a little heavier. Yeah, because it's not only about me, I'm being asked to share information. So eventually build up enough confidence to start doing that. I would tell someone Whoa, I know, you've been waiting for money a long time it's gonna be it's gonna be in your mailbox. You know, things like that, you know, in the checkout line, or whatever, way fast so nobody would know who I was or anything like that. But I had to come back the next day was to buy some milk, but it was Hey, how did you know that? You arrived I was there. So that's how the birth started getting about this guy knows about now but so people started contacting me. And I didn't I didn't know what to do. I didn't have any services, anything like that. I just share information with you. So Brandon Handley 18:54 so you know that two things. Two things there right? Well for I love the idea, right? Hey, universe is gonna start using me right? Like I mean, just so you set yourself up as a as a vessel, right? You set yourself up as a conduit and we talk a lot about like, you know, receiving we talk a lot about tuning in and all that kind of thing, but it sounds to me like you just you know you you allowed right and and you let it he let it coarser you so I think that's pretty cool. And you know, second part, like you're talking about right now, just thinking you didn't we didn't have what we've got right now. You couldn't you know, your credit, you couldn't go back there and spin out spiritual dope back then. Right? Because you had like a street corner like maybe unspiritual dope was that corner that block, you know, so? Yeah, tell me a little more about the time. Unknown Speaker 19:52 So I'm continuing to listen to the radio station. It was it was a College Station Morgan State University. Radio where I heard the song in search of the third. So I'm continuing to listen to the station. And a lady comes on the station a Reverend Hazel caselle. And she has a radio show. So he is teaching classes about spirituality. I said, Oh, I needed to learn some more about this. So I went to visit her. And I'm talking to her about a class. So I'm getting ready to leave her office. And she says, aren't you going to tell me about your gift? I didn't say anything to this lady about numerology or any special gift. But she has psychic abilities. And she says, I'm seeing numbers around you. You haven't said anything to me about it. So I gradually came back to the opposite said to and I started sharing with her what it happened, what my experiences was. So see if I knew her or her radio show. So okay, I'll come on your show talk about numbers. So people calling in giving their name and their birthday, I'm doing readings over the over the over the air. And at the end of the show, she gives out my phone number. Well, I guess I was kind of naive. Now I expect to give out my number and my website. But not this first show. I'm just sharing my gifts. And she gave out my number brand. And people started calling me my phone off the hook. I had to go back home and create services. Well, this will be a reading and I'll call this a forecast and to meet the demand that that that people wanted to know. And that's how I got started. Yay, a numerologist I did not plan it. I had never heard of it. It just happened and I really feel like it was my calling. And and that is why I'm here to be of service to God to share information about about these numbers man is so fascinating. And so complex yet it's it's all around us. Right? It's like we come with a owner's manual. Like when you buy you buy a new gift or you get a any type of product. You open it up it says here's the owner's manual read this first name on our birthday. We're totally blind to it, you know? Sure. Brandon Handley 22:05 No, no, it's Yeah, that's you know, he was always walk around be like, well, we didn't come with an owner's manual. Now you're telling us that we do. So they have to dig into that. Right? Well, I was asked to dig into that. So, you know, you've been able to sustain through numerology is my question, then, you know, have you been able to kind of like make make make your living out of out of this practice? Unknown Speaker 22:30 It's interesting. It started off there were no, okay. No, it was a labor of love. Like I said, I didn't reach out to start a business. It was only people contacting me for my services, and my hallways was was doing something else with this was sort of like a vocation. But as time has gone on, when I was 21, I eventually I ended up having a show on sa radio show that I would say radio station, I was listening to doing a numerology report. So over time, I would give classes announced workshops, nobody would show up. Nobody will show relevance place. Zero. But now, yes, workshops. been teaching at the local community college. One of the people heard my show in a radio was a program director at a community college in Baltimore County in the asked me to create a curriculum to teach numerology and make it available. That's true. Things have really changed his math, t 72. Brandon Handley 23:49 A couple things, a couple things have changed, for sure. Things have changed. Unknown Speaker 23:57 I love how you say things like that. I told you, I was picking up things for you too. And what I picking up is global, a global impact. That's what I'm picking out that. I don't know if you can translate your show into other languages. But I'm picking up your impact is is going to be global. And people from different cultures from all around the world are going to start tuning in to your show. And and what you write new habits. I know you didn't tell me you were an author or writer. But I'm showing up and picking up your writer is something you write has a potential to go to the big screen. Brandon Handley 24:36 Mm hmm. Well, I don't know what I'd write that would go to the big screen. But you know, there's still plenty of time. You know, I love the idea though. And thanks, man. It's really interesting. I was just talking to talking to somebody this weekend in New Zealand to get connected with somebody else who's you know, got some global initiatives and here's the thing Being able to have that conversation. So, you know, yeah, like, I got like little goose bumps and like, my hair is rising up over here. So on the different cultures, right, that's what this is about. It's, it's, it's not about, um, it is about is exactly what it's about those different cultures if you look at if you look at the graphics for spiritual dope, you see, you know, Jesus figure there you see Buddha there, and my original one had a, you know, Shiva on there, right. So it's just kind of like, you know, we're all saying the same things we've all got, you know, how do we light this fear up within us? How do we how do we, how do we honor it? Right? I think that's one of the first how do we recognize it? How do we honor it and how do we allow for it to bloom right, what do we do to cultivate ourselves? Right and and nurture that and and share it, but now so so thanks, man. That's it. So is that is that done through numbers or just straight vibing? Unknown Speaker 26:02 Well, I think straight vibing led me to numerology. I'm listening to the song doing the research on pursuing holding a my consciousness because I believe the mind is so opposed to see. And what we're co creators with the universe. sparks from the big flame, if you will. And by holding it in my mind, it just manifested that book. That book showed up in a bookstore in house and there was only a business for a year and a half. Unknown Speaker 26:32 That's crazy. Unknown Speaker 26:34 Okay, universe put that stood there for me, right. But yeah, I think i vi, to numerology, but after that, I just began to study it and apply my skills, my technical abilities. So there's so much they give me their birthday. And I can edit out real quickly, because I'm used to formulas and things like that. So math does math doesn't frighten me. So I can look at an a tag editor, convert the letters to numbers and give someone a reading within seconds just because of you know, the, the pathways, the mental pathways I created by studying math and science. I didn't know I'd be applying it this way. Yeah. Yeah. Brandon Handley 27:19 You never you never know how it's gonna strike. Right? So real. If this is okay, you know, so it's my wife's birthday. Next week. Can we can we do her? Do her numbers? Yeah. So. So what do you need the whole year, month, date and year? So March 16 1974. Unknown Speaker 27:43 Okay, Okay, awesome. Eat number in the birthday represents a gift. Okay. Then if you add it all up, you have like the ultimate gift. So I like to think of it as a contract with creator in these closets. The first clause is the number three. And the three is a symbol for expression, and you singing, painting, dancing, writing, anything artistic, decorative, colorful, is also a symbol for abundance, because the story of the Christ is about the number three, he was taught by three wise men. And there's a lot of other references, but we know he arose on the third day. That's Easter, I left a lot of about for the sake of time. But when asked Massa, why are you here, he says, I'm here to have life and have it abundantly. So the three stands for abundance. So your wife gift is to always appear younger than she is. If he's in a room and children are there, they will be drawn to her like a magnet. She's extremely creative, in terms of her artistic talent and ability. And you may have channels getting a word and once he starts to communicate, because threes are expressive, okay. Now, I'm going to skip her day for a moment because her year is also a three. If you add one plus nine plus seven plus four, it adds up to 20 119 is 1074 is 1110 1011 is 21. Are you with me? Unknown Speaker 29:25 Because I'm tracking? Unknown Speaker 29:27 Absolutely Did you add two plus one, that's also with Ray. So he's got a double dose if everything that I shared with you about the number three, full abundance, social activity, mixing, working with children, being an artist creative, seeing the penny dancing, writing a double dose of that. Now her date of birth is a seven, one plus six is seven. That's the number of face. On the seventh day God rested. So as social as she is There's going to be times she's going to be by herself. It's almost like what happened? Did the cloud come over to set on? Where she go? Right? What what? Because it's the exact opposite of the number three, which makes her social. So her rhythm will be to introspect, and then to project to interest, fat, and then to project because the seven makes her a minister, does it matter? She goes to school, where's the row? Seven is the number of faith. So she's a mountain mover. Okay? She's a researcher. That's my number. The number seven so sees a researcher and analyst or thinker, does he take things at face value? Oh, she goes deep. She is the reason why you are walking that straight line. If I write about the man, Maria, number seven female, okay, you don't have to worry about being going astray or doing anything wrong, because she'll sense it before even comes to your mind. My wife was a number seven. So I can't even dream about doing anything. I mentioned you might be a writer, your wife is definitely around this. About the book, hobby. Okay? hobby, okay, this is your second letter as a two, oh is a six because the 51 five or six, that as the 14, a K is to the left of ladder. One plus one is two. So the word book vibrates to the 16. So when you see the 16 Not only is he a researcher, but she has the ability to communicate it. So she's writing has a potential to write lecture travel a share her expertise. I don't know what her expertise is, okay, numerology does it, box her in. But that seven tells me whatever she does, she's the expert, a people will seek her out for her expertise. It also tells me she's so creative. Her main challenge is to follow through. To follow through completing projects is going to be a task. Because her creativity, so delegating is important. Now let's add it all. Okay, so that those are the clauses in her contract. Craig, real quick, Brandon Handley 32:32 I lost her picture. Can I get you to come back? Oh, sure. Sure. I Unknown Speaker 32:36 don't know what happened here. These are the gifts that God gave her. Okay, that I just shared with you, the creativity, the mental ability to analyze. So if we add it all up, is three plus 16 is 90, which tells me as a numerologist. She left the house as a child, she got out of the house as fast as she could. It was quit out of there, man. And it was someone in their family who tried to keep their keeper under their thumb. But she said find them because that spot her originality and her leadership that brought it up. But I digress. If we add 19 to her a year, which is a 21 guess what 19 to 21 add up to Brandon Brandon Handley 33:23 Is that right? Unknown Speaker 33:28 42? The number 40 see Unknown Speaker 33:31 that crazy number, right? Well, Unknown Speaker 33:33 you're right, plus 16 plus 21. Three plus 16 plus 40. So your her death is the orderliness of God. So he embodies it to wherever she goes. That's the energy that she's taking with her. So people are going to call her mean stubborn and strict. Brandon Handley 34:00 I mean, I don't know if they would say to her face, Unknown Speaker 34:04 probably a bad idea. Unknown Speaker 34:07 Also, as a number 40, when you guys have entertainer has gas, after they leave, you will find her going around the house, putting things back in their place where they belong. So orderliness is very important to the number 40. As his eyes are numbers, he's probably extremely good with numbers. Well, she Brandon Handley 34:28 will tell you, she's not but most you probably, you know, it's one of those things right? It's what you tell yourself. It's what you tell yourself, right? Unknown Speaker 34:36 That's the number four. The fourth book in scriptures is called numbers. So people four is always concerned with measurements and things like that. So you get involved with numbers when you do research and studies and things like that. So right. And I will also share with her that this year was as a 223 is going to be a year of said numbers. 1923 is 42. This is a number six year for her. And number six year, so she's going to have a chance to use her creative talents, skills and abilities this year, she couldn't have a chance to join with others in some goodwill projects, they're going to be reaching out for her to to work together in a goodwill project. And a lot of people do get a new home in a number six year, so the focus is on the home, and the six year domesticity the whole community, in your relationship Brandon Handley 35:46 towards fun, right, that's a lot of fun. That's, that's great. So thanks. Thanks for doing that. Unknown Speaker 35:50 It is a love vibration. Brandon Handley 35:54 Well, that's awesome. So you know, so you kept at it, and you feel like, you know, what was it like, I guess and you know, kind of communicating this as your primary path to like your friends and family? And how long did it take you? So how long did it take you? You know, to? To even feel confident to do that? And were you scared to do it? Unknown Speaker 36:17 Well, with my immediate friends, I went to right away after losing my friend to that drug overdose. I wasn't taking any chances on quoted back any information that I now have revealed to me about them, because I knew that he burned things. So I started sharing information with them. Many of them were receptive. But some of them ran away, they became afraid not because the info meishan wasn't accurate. But because the information was accurate, on and they felt. And now before they were invisible, now I knew everything about them. So people started running away from me, not because it wasn't true, accurate, but because they didn't want to stand in front of an X ray machine. Sure. For sure, but then there was also the other side of the coin. And people thought I just lost, I thought I just lost my mind and flipped out. And that what I was doing was actually something demonic and evil. So I took that this spirit said, what do you what do you have me doing here? Look him, he told me this. This is where I'm supposed to be doing. I'm trying to share it. So spirit told me I wasn't ready yet. I was, you know, going off too quickly. That to continue the study. And when the time was right. God told me he would bring his leaders to me. So it wasn't a type of thing where I could get on a hit a brass, hit the symbol and advertise and put it up in the lights come to me Come to me. I had to be patient and wait in study and to be prepare to prepare myself for the time when God was going to start sending people to me. So that's what I did. I just zipped it up, it started studying. And the people who found out about me found their way to me. I had prepared my services now. And it wasn't a a wide stream of clients. But when they came I was I was ready for them. And I knew they were leaders, right? That they were leaders and it hasn't changed. You are a global leader. The name brand is a number 32. And that's America's birthday, July the fourth 1776. And the number 32 shows up in all of America's leaders in George Washington's bow total. And Barack Obama has showed me showing up in your first name. The number 32 is called the ruler of all nations and people. And because I studied that, that's how I know you're going to have a global impact. Hmm. So this is why you're starting to meet people from other countries. And sooner or later you will have a network all around the world because that's that's what you came here. That was your contract. Promise creator that you would impact the planet. So you may not be telling other people that's your goal. But that's that's pretty much what the universe has planned for you. Your last name Handley the valtos a number 13. So I want to talk about that people are so afraid of the 13 branded, they won't come outside on Friday the 13 people are terrified, for sure and for good reason. The 13 is all in Nothing is an all or nothing type vibration. And what it stands for is change, release and transformation. So it does mean death, but not how we think of it. Because we are spiritual beings here for a temporary spell, what we call it death is simply returning back to our original state. Sure, is the transformation. So the 13 stands for change, release a transformation. And when it shows up in your name the way it does for you, it means you came here to be part of the transformation that's taking place. We've heard songs about the Age of Aquarius. Well, by golly, we're in it. Brandon Handley 40:46 Where are you? Yeah, and you know, I'll throw it out there too. I am an Aquarius to say, Unknown Speaker 40:50 wow, you Brandon Handley 40:52 know, I'm all in right? Like, I mean, do I need any other signs? There's something that I'm missing. Change, Unknown Speaker 41:02 right? It's transition. So when people meet you, they'll be transformed. The 13 is represented by the butterfly star. So calling around is that with wings fly, save energy save manager now, but also the Phoenix that goes down in flames and then rises from the ashes. So people should never count you out. Brandon Handley 41:33 That's I mean, it's great. Right? I love I love both of those. Both those symbols, right? We always we always look at you know, the caterpillar. And then you know, going into its cocoon, and just totally eradicating what it was before getting into a big new mass of goo. And then coming out like this beautiful thing, right? So always love that. And same thing with the same Yeah, Phoenix is always a great story to write down to the ashes and reborn again, and into something more beautiful than it was before. And you know, as they say, powerful, but you know, powerful than more, you know, but maybe, maybe, you know, it's funny, I just shared the quote, that, uh, that kind of speaks to how I felt like upon like, my awakening, if it were as it were, right. I was like, I don't know what this power is. But I know that I'll figure it out. Right, I'll work towards figuring understanding it right. And that's me, just kind of right. The the Phoenix has probably always been that capable, but it wasn't until it was down and out that it's got to strike forward and search for it and, and come into its own power. Unknown Speaker 42:45 Awesome. Awesome, man. Awesome. So most people, most people give up at that point. Most people, they, they check, you know, they turn to different escapism where they just hold on and go through that pain. You know, it's it's the old Coke is the old say, but no pain, no gain, you know, is this what you grew up? A farmer has to break up the soil before we could plant a seed. Brandon Handley 43:18 No, hey. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I see that 100% the other thought, you know, and this is recent, recent one, the mean just just a quick exchange of of, you know, quotes and whatnot and thoughts on this. But there was, um, there's a lady that I listened to system or her meditations and, and just talking about pain as as a as a gateway to the divine, right. Unless we unless we allow ourselves to actually feel that pain and said that we continue to most of us shove shove pain away, right though I don't want to touch it, it hurts to keep that away. But if we go ahead and accept that pain, and feel into it, and we realize the power that's within that pain, and I don't know if you transform it or just feel it right and be okay with it, but a pain is also a gateway to the divine. And so I recently just kind of you know, that did it hit me. So what are your lines here and Craig, this has been awesome. I'm really enjoying it. And I know that you know, the audience will as well. But I love the line that you've got on on your website says I use my gifts to help I use my gifts. I use my gifts to help my clients understand themselves as spirit by journeying within we can discover a higher self higher purpose and divine well. Now is that from scriptures, that's something that you kind of came up with on your own just a curiosity there. I love it. Unknown Speaker 44:39 I notice that something I came up on my own just over over time over the years people asked me the question, you know, we do was was it about was it four? Right? So that's, that's what I came up with. I realized that, you know, the body is a temple of the spirit and we're We're not physical beings, we have an occasional spiritual experience, the awakening is oh my goodness, we're spirit inside this this vessel by hand. So with numerology, I'm able to enable to share with people who they are in terms of spirit in terms of energy, so they can see themselves that way. because very few people will come up to you and talk to you in those terms. You know, they're talking about What school did you go to what car you drive when you work, you know, how much money do you make, but not what's your contract with God? What do you do earn your body to when you book your trip? Brandon Handley 45:41 No, no, that's absolutely, absolutely. And so, you know, one of the things that, actually, so I mean, it's almost like, here's a UPC code on everybody that walks by, right, you got like, you got a scanner, they listen, let me tell you about you. First of all, these these ingredients are, you know, anyways, the idea is that to you know, in your book, you spell it out a little bit. It's not just to learn kind of numerology to figure out who you are, and just your kind of divine contract in your book, you also illustrate how you can determine relationships that, you know, beneficial in you know, you know, in matchmaking for sure, and like, you know, kind of find my next significant other, as well as you know, how things will work out at jobs or what what are good job fits, maybe give me like one or two scenarios, I know you listed out for my wife, Meg, you know, the number three, or was it number 16? Number, the book and being able to be a writer? What's like, Unknown Speaker 46:49 like, what's your date of birth? Brandon Handley 46:51 My date of birth is 125 1976. Unknown Speaker 46:56 Okay, so you're also a seven, your wife is born to 61 plus six is seven. You're the 25th to plus. And it just so happens. This is crazy. You are both savage in compatibility. In my book starts on page 77. By case you Unknown Speaker 47:29 I'm going to share with you what it means when two sevens, okay? to service. Now, this is in your day of birth sector and the day of birth and the compatibility report. Is the canvas for the relationship. No, it's not. It's not a it's the weakest energy really, when you're doing compatibility. Like if you go look at two artists, you go to a museum, look at a painting, you know, but the canvas is important, right? Canvas is important. Unknown Speaker 47:56 So Unknown Speaker 47:57 here's number seven, and number seven compatibility, and my book is on page 102 sevens. Silence is so much peace exists with this combo. On the seventh day God rested. So there's silence, there's peace, there's non verbal communication, there's no way without even speaking, okay, Unknown Speaker 48:19 we're definitely there. Unknown Speaker 48:24 This could be a couple who miss as hermits, or older friends or civilization and blissful solitude surrounded by nature, she herself is likely to be away from it all. Very spiritually inclined to sevens. But who's going to pay the bills, if both are lost in the world of thought, see that we got Unknown Speaker 48:51 that we got that from Unknown Speaker 48:55 very eccentric unit, with each being absorbed in their mental interests. So that's a couple of sevens there, right? When added up your wife's month, day and year, it added up to the number four. Now that's the most important number in a compatibility chart, the sum of the month, day and year. So for you, it was 125. There as of the 26th. So your gift is leadership. The number one, everybody knows that. I talked about faith aspect of, of spirituality being a researcher and analyst or thinker your year as up to 23 1976 is a 23. Okay, this happens a lot. I start I have one in kitchen and spirit kicks in. I don't know why the camera keeps going up. Spirit is telling me to share this with you on you're going to have a business and have an opportunity to hire your family. That's showing up family entrepreneur. vibration shows up in your chart. But I digress. This happens a lot. I have an intention, but something come in from the Brandon Handley 50:09 universe. Where does that where does that where does that come from? Is that coming from a number or is that coming from a vibration? Unknown Speaker 50:15 It's coming from the number, your month is a one in your year is a 23. Okay as up to 24. And that's called the family entrepreneur vibration. Okay? The family entrepreneur vibration, of course, is showing up in your chart, starting your business and hiring your family. So as I said, I digress it off, this happens in the house, I have an intention, the universe will say okay, while you're open, share this. I wanted to share that with you. So your mother today is 2424 25 is 49. So not only do your your birthdays match, but he's a 44 plus years for your 44 plus nine is 30. There's a 13 again, right one plus three is four. So you match not only do your days match, but when I have your muffin here that matches man when you when you took one look at her the earth must have shook Unknown Speaker 51:26 there's no doubt in your mind because you guys. So for for for what does that mean? I share seven seven nonverbal communication. Two fours both are very fixed in your point of view, and somewhat stubborn for us. Okay. Okay, realized material conference and business success. This is a workaholic combo that might put too much energy into working in building. Unknown Speaker 52:09 Right not have fun. Yeah. any conflicts will be around budget or time issues. Because four is orderly. So there's budget and time issues. Here, he should have their own bank account. This is a great business combination. So if you come to me seeking advice, as a couple, that's what I'll be telling you. Right. Now other when it comes to time, and budgets, because it was about keeping the trains in order, making sure everything is growing. I'll tell you about the number four. You see when a plant a new tree brand, and they put spikes in the ground with that Robert wanted to hold it in place. Yes, sir. Before energy. Right. To the left, but it gets a good root set. Right? goes up tremendously. Education, pending it without those bikes, right. The tree is saying you're stubborn, you're me. You're strict, even though you're saving the tree lives, right? When people are complaining about you being stubborn, or mean or strict, that's when you know you're on your job. Brandon Handley 53:43 I'm here, I'm here, sir. And I'm doing my contract. I gotta Unknown Speaker 53:47 make sure whatever gets off the ground. It manifests because God created Earth on the fourth day on phase commit the physical manifestation under your energy, Brandon. So were other people have ideas and dreams. You had the ability to make your dreams reality. Brandon Handley 54:11 Well, thank you, man. That's, that's, that's awesome. That's awesome. That's a ton of fun. It really is. And I know you do so much more to I didn't even go over all your credentials for the audience putting out just just so everybody understands this, you know? You've got Reverend Dr. Craig he right PhD, right PhD in metaphysical counseling metaphysical science metaphysical science. You know, Minister, metaphysical practitioner, so, you know, this isn't obviously it's not news to you, right? And you've actually taken the time to go and and to an actual school and get, you know, educated in this material, whereas you probably you know, you probably didn't need to you probably found out most of the stuff or a lot of it on your own But you, you put forth a lot of extra effort. So I really appreciate you reaching out to me and being here today on the podcast sharing just a small amount of what it is that you do. And even this, this whole conversation has been very impactful for me. And it's been a lot of fun. So, you know, if somebody else wanted to reach out to you to get this kind of service, where could I send them to, to connect with you? Unknown Speaker 55:27 Well, they could visit my website, and they could see all the services that are available to them. And that website is www dot. Craig he right that, that c r AIGEW rI ght.com. Brandon Handley 55:48 Awesome, Craig, thanks for being with us today. Unknown Speaker 55:50 Thank you, Brandon. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Missions Update I want to begin this morning with a missions update from our partners in India. We support two couples, Tia and Atula and Murry and Louivani. They have a two-fold mission. First they train up students in a seminary and provide them training for the pastorate and the mission field. Recently they have moved their seminary from Bagalore which is the tech capital of the world to a more strategic spot in the north called Nagaland. It’s a little different up here. The reason they moved their seminary is because there is access to the neighboring countries, Mynmar, Bangladesh, Butan. Their seminary is in the city but they can, in a relatively short period of time, reach into the tribes and minister to them. This a mix of spiritism anamism, budhism, muslim and hindu. It’s an incredible opportunity. They recently purchased a plot of land for a seminary and we have been saving to give toward this project so we were able to give $40,000 toward this facility and we are so excited to be partners with them. You or I would have a hard time getting into some of these countries, but many of the students and graduates are either from these countries or are going there as missionaries. We are so thankful to be in partnership with them. Please pray for them as they work so hard for the Lord. Introduction Have you ever been confronted by someone and you know the message is true but you refuse to admit it. In fact, you MUST NOT confess it because the implications are too overwhelming. Let me give you an example in my own life. We built an extra room onto the side of our house a few years ago. My wife and I had agreed on the design. So I’m framing up the walls and I’m really exciting that I’m making good progress. I’m efficient, I’m being incredibly productive. I’m flying. Lisa had been gone running some errands and couldn’t wait to show her how much progress I had made. So she comes in and I can tell by the look on her face something’s wrong. I hate that look. And sure enough she says, “Well, that’s not going work. We need another window right here." And I could feel my emotional zeal for life getting sucked out of my soul like a tornado. So I objected,”What do you mean you don’t like it? What’s not to like? Why do we need another window?" And then she gave me some reasons. Well: It would be more symmetrical. It would let in more light. It would give the room a more open feel. Now if you were to stop me right there. Objectively speaking, do you agree with her points. I would have said yes to all three, an emphatic yes. I actually love windows. Here’s what I said: I mean, symmetry? It’s is all a matter of perspective. Symmetrical to what? Sometimes asymmetrical looks better. Let in more light? There’s giant trees shading the whole yard. That’s not going to let it more light? What do you mean open feel? Define open. The ceilings are vaulted and 15 feet high. How much more open can you get? The insanity! I agreed with her and yet I communicated disagreement. Why? Because I didn’t like the implication of her being right. If she’s right than I’ve got to tear down and and rebuild and I don’t want to. Now in the end, I confessed. She smiled. And the room looks awesome. Now it’s one thing to have to tear out a few studs and rebuild a partial portion of a single wall; it’s one thing to swallow a bit of pride and lose an hour or so of my life. Not so big a deal. But it’s another thing entirely to realize that your entire life, everything you have worked so hard for, has been built upon the wrong foundation. To realize that every stud you’ve laid, every nail you’ve pounded, every ounce of energy you’ve invested, every dollar you spent, everything - 100% of it needs to be tore out. Why? Because the entire foundation of you life is incorrect. It needs to be jackhammered out, hauled to the dump and you need to reform and repour the whole thing. Everything you have been living for has been a complete waste. That, my friends, EVEN IF YOU ARE 100 percent convinced, is not easy to admit. You see, this is why many cannot come to Jesus Christ. Not because they don’t have enough evidence, not because they suspect the evidence is untrue. The real issue - and it operates mostly on the level of the subconscious - is that they don’t like the implications of the evidence. In our passages last week Jesus said, “I am the bread of life.” If you accept that, if you believe that Jesus is in fact the ONLY source of TRUE LIFE, then that necessarily DEMANDS that things you’ve been chasing are NOT life.* The career, the girl, the family, the money, the glory, the degree, the job. These things are NOT life. If you admit that Jesus Christ is the source of LIFE, then you have to admit you’ve been wasting your life barking up the wrong tree. And that means we need to break out the jackhammer and break up the foundation upon which we’ve built our entire life. Today, all of us will be offended at some aspect of the message. This is maybe the most offensive chapter in all the Bible. So, if you aren’t offended, I probably haven’t done my job. But here’s the encouragement, if you can receive it, there’s life waiting for you. True life. Abundant life. Everlasting life. Review Let’s review. Last week we saw Jesus confronting the shallow interest of the crowds.He was confronting this shallow, genie-in-a-bottle interest in Jesus’ miracle working ability. They wanted Jesus to fill their belly, to add another couple zero’s on the end of their bank account. They didn’t want him. They only wanted what they could get from him. Jesus confronted this; you guys are all focused on the plane of your crude human needs. You need to stop looking for bread that perishes and instead work for the bread that never perishes. And the natural question is well, what is the bread that never perishes and how do I get it? What is the bread. Jesus says? I am the bread of life. John 6:40, “…everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” LIFE! Zoa. Jesus is claiming to be that life. And the way you get it is to believe. Believe who Jesus claims to be. Everything we read last week was the claim. What we are going to see this week and next week is the response. And here is what we are going to discover. This claim that Jesus is the bread of life come down from heaven is UNIVERSALLY OFFENSIVE. No human being who truly hears and understands what Jesus is saying accepts it without offense. Today we are going to look at five ways that Jesus’ offer to be the bread of life offends us and how we can move from offense to worship. So Jesus has just finished saying, “I am the bread of life”. Here’s the response from the religious leaders. Jesus is offering them eternal LIFE in himself; but in order to get the life you have to believe the claim. Jesus has them on the horns of a dilemma. Because on the one hand they cannot outright dismiss him. Why? He’s been healing people like crazy. He just multiplied bread and fish so as to feed 10,000 people. He’s healed the blind, lame, deaf. So they cannot dismiss him, but on the other hand, his claims are outright unbelievable, “I have come down from heaven?” Come on!? Now, they have to come up with some sort of explanation for what they see and hear but this is not it. Even though it doesn’t say it outright, I could guess at their explanation. Here’s a miracle worker; miracle workers in the Bible are prophets. They’ve got a category for that. That’s what made sense to them. Here’s a man, a regular homo-sapien, who has prophet-like access to God. That’s what my intuition tells me. But Jesus says. Nope. Here’s what’s really going on. I have come down from heaven. Just like we would say, “I’ve come down from McCall,” Jesus said, “I actually used to live in heaven. Now I live here on earth.”Jesus says, I came down from heaven. It’s a major focus of chapter 6. Look how many time the phrase is used in chapter 6. How could a man come down from heaven? That’s totally and completely counter-intuitive. Jesus says, your right. “I’m actually not a man.” God has given me power to raise the dead and judge the world. You see, I am a GOD-MAN. Well I wasn’t expecting that! How could a God-man look just like me? They definitely had an expectation about Messiah and it wasn’t this. If Jesus is who he claims, God come down from heaven, I certainly wouldn’t expect him to come this way. So normally. So undramatically. To Nazareth? Does anything good come out of Nazareth? My intuition tells me coming from heaven doesn’t work like that. But let me ask you, “Does that make it not true?” Just because something isn’t intuitive, doesn’t make it untrue. The theory of relativity is not intuitive - at all. Does that make it not true? Something that upsets our intuition and upsets our expectations is not evidence of it not being true. It’s just evidence that our intuition and expectations are incorrect. There are thousands of things that are counterintuitive but are still true. To refuse them on the basis that they upset intuition is to the epitome of pride because it makes conformity to intuition the definition of truth. I wouldn’t have expected Messiah to turn water into wine is a strange miracle to begin the public ministry of Jesus Christ. So be it. My expectations are wrong. Shall I be offended or learn from it? Humility is letting truth inform your intuition. In fact is often the act of upsetting expectations and intuitions that lead us to the truth. Before you became a Christian you might have had a way to explain Christian behavior. I know why religious people try to be moral. They are trying to work their way to heaven. But then you realize, nobody who is a true follower of Christ is trying to work their way to heaven. That counter-intuitive discovery will lead you to the truth. Jesus says, “I am the Bread of Life.” That claim offends our intuition. That’s our first point. In other words, when Jesus says, “I am the bread of life” our natural inclination is to say, thank you but no thank you. I don’t want that. When Jesus hears them grumbling about having come down from heaven he says, Now you think the first two were offensive. This, to many, is downright repugnant. What we are reading about here is what theologians call the doctrine of election. Election speaks to the divine force responsible BEHIND our CHOICE to submit to God. Or to state it more simply, “Who chooses God? Do you choose God or does God choose you?” This is a thorny question. You come at this question wrong and your liable to get poked and bleed. But if we’ve learned anything thus far in the sermon. Don’t trust your intuition and don’t assume it’s going to be like you expected. Do we really expect God to match our human intuitions? Don’t judge by the external appearance alone. If you watch any survival shows, you know that a barrel cactus can save your life in the desert because beneath the spiny exterior is a storehouse of life-giving water. The doctrine of election is like a spiny barrel cactus. Many will pass over it’s life giving water never knowing it’s even there. Some have heard that there is water inside, but get injured drinking it and then run away. But there are others who carefully listen to the instructions, pierce through that spiny exterior and the water is the sweetest, most satisfying, most nutritious, life-giving drink you could imagine and it quenches the thirsty soul. Here’s how the doctrine presents itself in the passage. The pharisees grumble at the claim that Jesus is from heaven. They don’t like it. And Jesus say, “Well that’s not surprising. That’s to be expected.” Why? Because no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him. In other words, he’s saying, unless the Father draws you, you will never find me attractive. Without God working on your heart, you won’t ever want me. Paul says the same thing in Romans 3:10: What does this doctrine teach? It teaches that the problem with the human condition is broken desire. We want the wrong things. We love the wrong things. There is a fundamental inability. Now what is that inability in specifics. Let me illustrate. Imagine for a moment that I sit you down at a table and give you two choices. On your left you have toasted cream brule and on your right you have ground up worms and slugs. Which would you choose? Okay, maybe that was a fluke. Let’s run the experiment again. cream brule or the ground up worms and slugs? 1000 times out of a thousand. 10,000 times out of 10,000 you will never choose the worm compote. Why? Is the problem that you cannot eat the worm and slugs? It’s not that I can’t eat it; it’s that I can’t want it. That’s my problem. The inability is in the domain of desire. When Paul says, “the natural mind is hostile to God” or “no one comes to me unless the father draws him” he’s saying not saying they can’t come to God, he’s saying they can’t want to. Our unaffected desires never move toward God. What the Bible teaches is that for us to move toward God, he’s got to move toward us. And the form of that movement is the love of God being pressed upon our hearts. The love of the Father is prior. It’s aggressive. It pounces. I want to talk about two things here: order and cause. There’s an order and a cause. Both are important. The order is God FIRST, then us. God’s love was first. And then that initiating love CAUSED us to love him. It is because he FIRST loved us that we then love him. That’s what Jesus is saying here, “No one can come to me, unless the father draws him.” This is offensive. Why? Because it strips us of any reason we can be congratulated. We can’t take credit for our good choice. If you make a good investment, you can take credit for it. But if the stock company accidentally liquidates your investments and transfers it to another portfolio and it skyrockets, you can’t congratulate yourself. God drew you. Is that what you expected? - No. Is that intuitive? - No. But is true? Absolutely. Now you may say, “No I choose Christ. He didn’t choose me.” Well, fine. But be consistent. If you are the one who chooses him, how do you know that someday you will not unchoose him? You can’t have it both ways. How do you know that you won’t foul the whole thing up again? Adam was created perfect and fouled the whole thing up. How do you know you won’t foul the whole thing up again? You see, here’s the beauty of it. Here’s why this doctrine is sweet, life-giving water. Because if God is the one who draws you, he is also the one who will keep you. And he is the one who will raise you up on the last day. And that’s exactly what he says next. Now my intellect is being confronted. Here’s why Jesus is not okay with their grumbling. Their grumbling was dangerous. Our grumbling is dangerous. Maybe you are grumbling about the nature of election. Why is that bad? Because it presupposed that our brain is the ultimate court in which God gets sorted out. If we just discuss this long enough, through our intellect and talking the matter over…with enough thought, we can make sense of this. If I can’t make sense of it, if the supreme court of my brain can’t sort this thing out, then it cannot be true. Here is the severe warning. As long as we are content to remain, confident in our own ability, our own intellect, our own intuitive sense of how things ought to be we will never seek divine insight and intellect outside ourselves. As long as we are content to assess our experience and the meaning of our experience using our own methods, we cannot come to the Christ. This is an issue of authority. When there is a contradiction who wins. It does not make sense to my intuition. I don’t desire it. And I can’t understand it. Yet, Jesus says it’s true. Which one wins? This is what is at stake. Jesus says, “They will all be taught by God.” This is a paraphrase of Isaiah 54:13, addressed to the restored city of Jerusalem that the prophet foresees: ‘All your sons will be taught by the LORD, and great will be your children’s peace.’ It’s a picture of restored Jerusalem drinking in knowledge from the source of knowledge. Jesus, you tell me what is true. You know that feeling when you are talking to an expert in their field. And they start explaining something and your brain goes into record mode. I trust every word that comes out of his or her mouth. That’s the picture. Total authority. Absolute knowledge. You believe it because you trust it because it’s true. The bread of life insults our intuition, offends our desire, disregards our intelligence, and now offends our vitality. What is meant here. There is a certain amount of pride that we carry within us that relates to our sense of vitality. I’m young and pretty. I’m young and athletic. I hike. I bike. I’m an academic. I’m an artist. I raft. These are all evidences of vitality. Jesus says, “That’s cute. But your going to die.” This is a nod to how we began our message last week. We are all dying. We are all playing a game of who can keep the water cupped in our hands the longest. What we didn’t talk about was why? Why are we dying? Answer: because we are starving. If you stop eating food you don’t die instantly. It takes a little bit of time. But you do die eventually. It’s a slow process of starving the body of what it needs. And because we are not eating the spiritual bread of life, we are dying. Well, Jesus says, if you want to live forever, if you want to have eternal zoa, then you need to eat the bread of life. Now here’s is where the offense, turns to disgust which turns to revulsion. Now here’s our final point. This offer of life offends our intuition, our desire, our intellect, our vitality. And finally…. What in the world does Jesus mean that we need to eat his flesh and drink his blood? First off, obviously this is a metaphor. But he’s pressing here, isn’t he. Let’s go back to what he said earlier in the text. Jesus said, if you want to receive the bread of heaven, you can’t work to receive it. The one work that earns the bread of heaven is to confess that you can’t do anything to earn the bread of heaven. That’s what he’s saying. You have to receive it. You have to believe in it. That’s how you receive it. You receive it by believing it. But then when we get here in verses 53–59, we see Jesus continually using present-tense verbs having to do with feeding. It’s clear that to be a Christian means to be continually in a process of feeding on Christ. And the terms are very graphic. The idea, is that being a Christian is not something you can dabble in. You have to take it inside of you. Think about food. If you want food to sustain you, you can’t be independent of it. Their is real power for it to sustain you. But exists out here. And you will die unless you take in inside of you. And it gets dissolved down and actually becomes part of you. That energy now courses through your veins. Being a Christian means that Jesus Christ becomes part of you in that way. That’s where the metaphor is pointing. As post crucifixion Christians understand the imagery far better than they did then. Jesus’ body was broken for us. His blood was spilled for us. And so taking that into us, means accepting the substitutionary sacrifice. The imagery of the OT sacrificial lamb now makes all the sense in the world. Remember passover was at hand here. Remember the first passover. The angel of death was going to go throughout all the land of Egypt and destroy every firstborn male. But if you killed a lamb and put it’s blood which symbolized it’s life over the doorpost, that angel of death would passover. And what were you to do with the lamb itself. You were to eat it. And it’s life given for you would now enter into you and sustain your life. That’s the picture. Communion Could we do church today and not do communion? My goodness, no. We come to the table this morning, ready to symbolically eat the flesh and drink the blood. It confronts and offends at almost every level. It offends my intuition, my expectations, ability, intellect, vitality and my independence. Why would we ever do it? Answer: Because it is the path to everlasting zoa. Life exists in the person of Jesus Christ. It’s in him. You cannot be independent of Jesus and live. What Jesus is really focusing on here is SOURCE. Where is the source of life to be found? Jesus says, I live BECAUSE of the Father. You will only live BECAUSE of me. I am the SOURCE of life. And you have to take me in. Now I want to illustrate this principle. You probably learned in elementry school that all life on planet earth exists because of the sun. It is the source of life. Well animals eat the plants or other animals and the plants get their energy from the sun. Not only all life, but all power. Cars move around because of fossil fuels. What are fossil fuels? They are decomposed buried dead organism - things that used to be alive. We get electricity from hydroelectric plants. Where does the rain water that powers the giant turbines at the bottom of dams come from? Evaporation from the ocean which is from the sun. Solar panels from the sun. Windpower from heating and cooling that comes from the sun. If it moves, is heated, reproduces, eats, grows.. it’s all from the sun. Jesus Christ is claiming take it one step further. And the sun exists because of me. “I am the bread of LIFE.” I am the SOURCE of everything. You cannot be INDEPENDENT of me and live. If you live, you will live BECAUSE OF me. Just as the SUN is the source of all power and life on earth so the SON is the SOURCE of the SOURCE. I am the SOURCE of ETERNAL LIFE, both bios and zoa. Can you see what it means to make him your Bread? Something is your meat and drink. Something is what you are making a beeline for because you think that’s living. Is it him? Is it a personal relationship with him? If it isn’t it will spoil. It will not endure, and neither will you. Come and eat the Bread and labor for the Bread and take the Bread that endures to eternal life.

Welcome!   For all of my listeners who purchased my course on Improving Windows Security - THANK YOU! We have a whopper of a warning this week about what the Department of Homeland Security is planning under the Biden Administration -- They are going to let Big Tech and Private Companies create the NO-Fly and Terrorist Watch Lists on their behalf -- Scary beyond measure.  Then Apple is doing more to protect your privacy.  We have another hack of a Commercial VPN provider and there is more so be sure to Listen in. For more tech tips, news, and updates, visit - CraigPeterson.com. --- Tech Articles Craig Thinks You Should Read: DHS Preparing to Use Private Contractors to “Scour Public Data and Social Media” To Compile Dissident Citizens for Watch List and No-Fly Lists Another Reason to hate VPNs -- Feds say hackers are likely exploiting critical Fortinet VPN vulnerabilities Mark Zuckerberg's cell phone number is among leaked personal data from 533 MILLION Facebook users, including two other founders that have been released for FREE by hackers How scammers siphoned $36B in fraudulent unemployment payments from the US Are self-driving cars safe? Will they ever be? Fender bender in Arizona illustrates Waymo’s commercialization challenge Apple is enforcing its new privacy standards and rejecting apps - New wave of App Store rejections suggests iOS 14.5, new iPad may be imminent My biggest complaint about Android? The lack of security updates. Google is trying to solve it -- What we’re expecting from Google’s custom “Whitechapel” SoC in the Pixel 6 NFTs Weren’t Supposed to End Like This Embracing a Zero Trust Security Model Turns out Most Manufacturing, Water Supply, and Power Companies Use Controllers with a Security Severity Score of 10 out of 10 Chromebooks outsold Macs worldwide in 2020, cutting into Windows market share Clubhouse is the New Up-and-Comer but  Security and Privacy Lag Behind Its Explosive Growth New York sues to shut down 'fraudulent' Coinseed crypto platform Former SolarWinds CEO blames intern for 'solarwinds123' password leak WhatsApp will basically stop working if you don't accept the new privacy policy TikTok breaching users’ rights “on a massive scale”, says European Consumer Group --- Automated Machine-Generated Transcript: Craig Peterson: [00:00:00] We're going to be talking about a fender bender in Arizona and when will these autonomous cars be safe, at least measured safe.  We've got a new wave of app store rejections from Apple. That means a couple of things, including better privacy for all of us. Hello, everybody. Craig Peterson here. Thanks for joining us today.  This is an interesting question, because we are looking at a future that we assume anyways is going to be full of autonomous vehicles. Why autonomous? What does it mean? There are various levels of autonomous, degrees, if you will. Everything from what we have today in a lot of cars, which is an assist cruise control, that'll keep you a certain distance from the car in front of you. We've got assisted braking control, where the car notices, Oh, wait a minute. Someone just hit the brakes right in front of you. I should apply the brakes and it hits the brakes even before your foot is pushing down.  Another way to do this is if you slam your foot on the brake, the car assumes you know something that it doesn't, and it increases the force that you're pushing down with. So even though you might just hit the brake fast and not necessarily hard the car will make it hard.  If you think about these types of braking, for instance, you can start to realize where we're running into a problem when it comes to defining whether or not autonomous vehicles are safe.  Bottom line is autonomous vehicles, which are all the way on the other side of this scale, it started with the brakes and now is hopefully going to end with a car that just drives itself. That's everybody's goal, Ford and GM and Chrysler- Fiat, whatever they're called nowadays of course, these autonomous vehicle companies, such as Tesla. We're going to see a way of measuring them that's different than we've ever seen before.  Right now, if you have a motor vehicle, you have a driver's license, most likely. And do you have insurance. Again, most likely and you have insurance because stuff happens. You don't really mean to hit something. You don't mean to wander out of your lane and end up in the woods. Right?  There's a lot of different things that can happen to you, including having another driver get into your way. My wife has been rear-ended. I was rear-ended. She had a beautiful little car, a little MG, and I can tell to this day that she absolutely loved that little car and she used to drive it around and go down to work. I think it was at Baxter Travenol and she'd be driving down there, just having a great time in Southern California. While she was at a stoplight and somebody rear-ended her and totaled her car. Which is just an absolute shame that wasn't her fault. Was it?  I got rear-ended, I've been ruined it, I think two or three times, never to the point that she was at, where the vehicle had major damage, let alone have to be written off, but it happened right. People aren't attentive. They misjudged the distance. It might be following too close for the conditions, rain or snow or fog or ice. There's a lots of reasons. So we have insurance and we have a driver's license to prove that we indeed at least understand the basics of driving. We passed a test, right? What is it? 70% pass rate, which frankly, isn't such a great rate if you get right down to it.  Anyway, how do we measure these cars? I mentioned the rear end collisions for a very specific purpose. These autonomous cars are racking up millions of miles on  roads out West, really California, Arizona is a very popular place for them to be tested because they don't have a whole lot of weather conditions to worry about. The roads are there and they're not changing very much, particularly in Southern California. They've all been built and there's not another square inch that isn't paved, including people's front lawn, which just absolutely boggled my mind. Why would you have a cement slab for front lawn anyways? That's California for you. These cars driving millions of miles in California are having accidents. They're not having these types of accidents you and I have.  There is a police report that was obtained by the Phoenix new times this last week that revealed a minor Waymo related crash. Now this crash occurred last October and it isn't the only one. This is, kind of, a pattern, but these have not been publicly reported until now.  I'm going to read here just a quick paragraph from what the new times in Phoenix had to say, "a white Waymo minivan" Waymo, of course, Google's little spinoff, to make these autonomous vehicles. "A white Waymo mini-van was traveling westbound in the middle of three westbound lanes on Chandler Boulevard in autonomous mode when it unexpectedly breaked for no reason." "A Waymo backup driver behind the wheel at the time told Chandler police that all of a sudden the vehicle began to stop and gave a code to the effect of stop recommended and came to a sudden stop without warning." A red Chevy Silverado pickup behind the vehicle swerved to the right, but clipped its back panel causing minor damage." No one was hurt. Overall Waymo has a pretty strong safety record.  By the way, that was from an article over at ARS Technica. They have more than 20 million testing miles in the Southwest United States.  If you think about it.  I was adding these numbers up, 20 million miles. My wife and I, we have put well more than a million miles on cars.  That's what happens when you have eight kids, right? Over the years you rack it up, 250,000 this car, 300,000 on that car. Yeah. It  adds up. That's a lot of miles.  If you start looking at how many miles the average person drives a year and start doing some comparisons with the accident numbers, you'll see really that the autonomous vehicles are having far fewer accidents. Fewer accidents involving a death, which is actually very good, but the accidents it's having, even though they tend to be minor are usually the fault of the other driver. A large majority, in fact of the accidents where these Waymo vehicles, this is according to Waymo, large majority of those crashes have been the fault of the other driver.  So what is the fault of the other driver? Who was at fault here? If that red Chevy Silverado pickup truck hit that Waymo autonomous car, it's the Chevy's fault. Why did the Chevy do it? It isn't just because he's driving a Chevy or because it's red or a pickup, he hit that car most likely, I don't know, I'm not talking to the guy, but most likely because the car did something unexpected.  If you read again, that police report it saying that even the driver quote unquote, in, in the Waymo car, this white minivan, who's sitting there to make sure the minivan doesn't run somebody over, that driver said, it was all of a sudden it began to stop. It all of a sudden began to stop and gave this code about a stop recommended and stopped with a warning. Put all of those things in a pot and stirred up and what do you have? You now have a different way of driving.  See that Chevy Silverado, if he's a good driver, he's looking ahead right down the road. If you look too close in front of you, you're going to be over-correcting. You're going to be steering all over the place. You're not going to go in a straight line. So with experience, you're looking down the road, two, three, four minimum car lengths ahead. Depends how fast you're going and that's where you're aiming.  You don't see an obstruction in front of that Waymo minivan. So you're not starting to slow down. It's just like I come up to your traffic light there's cars in front of me, and that light is red. I'm not going to be accelerating and then leaning on the brake, like so many people do. I see,  there's a red light ahead. There's cars stopped at the light. I'm just going to coast to a stop. Right? Save some energy. You save some brake pads. Stop global warming by not heating up those brake pads.  It's not something most people expect. I've never been rear-ended by doing that, but I've certainly been given the finger for doing that even though I tend to get to the cars in front of me, right? About the time the light turns green.   It's fascinating to look at, but what's going to happen? What is ultimately the way to determine how safe these cars are? We cannot use the types of assessments that our insurance companies are using.  Rear end collisions, like this, rarely get anyone killed. That's where the real high expenses come in.  The driver in the back is usually considered to be at fault.  But, what happens when the self-driving cars suddenly comes to the stop in the middle of the road. It's interesting to think about it, isn't it?   Waymo's vehicles sometime hesitate longer than a human would because they have to do all kinds of computations and consider complex situations that they're not used to.   If you've ever written code, say a hundred lines of code. It's going to be in case with cars millions of lines, but out of a hundred lines of code, about 90% of it is for the edge conditions. In other words, things that are unlikely to happen.  So when something weird happens that car's going to hesitate, and that frankly is a problem, the idiosyncrasies of self driving cars. We're going to talk about a wave of app store rejections by Apple iOS for your iPhone, iPad, et cetera. We'll tell you why right here.  You're listening to Craig Peterson, online Craig peterson.com. Apple is making another major change in order to give us more privacy.  I just started this, Improving Windows Privacy and Security Course. If you using an Apple iOS device, you're halfway there. Hello, everybody. Craig Peterson here. Thanks for tuning in . You can always hear me online@craigpeterson.com slash podcast.  Apple has been really the only major vendor out there in the smartphone industry to really have security as their prime motivation. Okay, you could argue money istheir prime motivation, right?  Apple has always tried to be secure. The hardware is quite secure. They haven't licensed their operating system to third parties and that gives them control. Like you can't have anywhere else.  Think about all of the different Android-based smartphones that are out there. There are thousands of different models.  Within each model, sometimes there are dozens of different hardware configurations. So, Google comes out with a security patch and sends it on out to the vendors, well actually makes it available for the vendors to pick up. Then the vendors go and grab it, and they have to test it, and they have to work in their own code, and then they have to work in all of the device drivers stuff, and they have to package it up.  They have to test it on all of the different models. Just think about Samsung, how many models Samsung has, just by itself, a whole lot of models.  It is almost impossible for Android phones to get security patches. Any Android phone that's more than two years old is guaranteed to not get security patches. I talked last weekend about what Samsung is doing to try and solve this. Finally, they must be listening to the show. Samsung had been more or less supporting it's top of the line models for about two years. If you bought a top of the line Galaxy phone from Samsung or another real top hot model, you might get security updates for a couple of years, and that's kind of it. Forget about it beyond that, which is why I said, if you absolutely must use Android, there's only one vendor you can use in that Samsung.  There's only one model phone that you can buy, which is Samsung top of the line phone, and you have to replace it every two years. So Samsung has come out now and said, We're going to provide support security support for our phones for five years. So they're trying to compete with Apple here. Apple has long provided support for five years. And as we saw just a couple of weeks ago with this big act of zero day attack against Apple iOS devices. They will actually provide security updates for much longer than five years, but it's way easier to provide security updates for 30 models of phones than it is for a few hundred models, which is what Samsung has. Expect Samsung to narrow down their product line and also to only really be providing support for the top models within their product lines.  Now, here's what Apple is doing right now. Apple is starting to reject some of these apps that have been in the app store for a long time, as well as new apps. They're rejecting them for a couple of reasons. The biggest reason is that as of iOS 14.5, Apple is requiring all of the vendors to tell you when you go to the app store, what information of yours they're storing, they're using, and they're selling. Okay. Pretty big deal. Isn't it? It's pretty bad deal, frankly, when you get right down to it for facebook and others. Facebook took out full page ads in major newspapers in the US saying, Oh, Apple can't do this. This is terrible. It's going to destroy a small business.  They said, it's going to destroy small business because Facebook can't pry into our lives as much. You know how it is. People say all the time, they're saying, Hey, I, why am I getting these ads? I've never even searched for it and somehow it's coming up.  There's a number of reasons why, but the bottom line is called big data. These apps like Facebook use all kinds of big data to figure out what we might like and part of that is based on what our friends are searching for. So, it puts together this massive mesh and figures it all out. Something that the Obama campaign really pioneered when Facebook gave them all of the data that they had on everyone and anyone.  I'm sitting here shaking my head because somehow that's okay, but having this Cambridge Analytica company do some of it from a paid standpoint and not get wholesale data somehow that was the most evil thing that ever happened.  They forgot about Obama, but you know, I guess that's political.  I criticize both sides of the aisle. I am an equal opportunity criticizer. They deserve it.  We've got Apple now telling Facebook and every other app developer, you have to tell the users. In fact, if you go right now to your phone, your iPad or your iPhone, or the iPod touch, you'll see if you go to the app and you scroll up. You can open a little tab and that tab will all of a sudden become a very big part of the screen because it's tell me what this app is doing with my data. If you don't tell it, Apple's going to block you from the store.  Google has, of course, a bunch of apps. You've probably used them things like Google maps, which I try not to use. Use the Apple maps its gotten much, much better than it was, and they're not tracking you and selling your data like Google does. Google has its own little app for doing searches. Of course, you've got Google Chrome, all these different things from Google. Google stopped updating their apps on the Apple app store because Apple was telling Google, you have to tell people what your doing with their data. Google didn't want to do it. We just want to update the apps, kind of, loophole that was in this whole thing.  They can't not update it forever. Now we're seeing rejections of these developers.  Here is a few lines again from ARS Technica, from a rejection letter that some developers received. "We found in our review that your app collects user and device information to create a unique identifier for the users, devices, apps that fingerprint the user's device in this way are in violation of the Apple developer program license agreement and are not appropriate for the app store."  Now, we're not talking about the fingerprint, as in the fingerprint reader, we're saying that they are looking for unique information about the phone, so they know it's you, they can put it all together. That letter goes on specifically, "your app uses algorithmically converted device and usage data to create a unique identifier in order to track the user."  Apple is really making it clear now to developers. To the ire of Facebook and Google and other companies who rely on that type of tracking to maximize the advertising revenue.  I can understand that, right. I really can. It's also clear that this app tracking transparency means that apps that are trying to track you by any means without your consent are going to face rejection. Bravo to Apple, yet again.  Now I'm not so happy about the statement they made this week. Yeah, Georgia. That's another thing entirely.  Stick around everybody. We will be right back talking more about technology. We're going to talk a little bit about what Google's planning to do in order to help with all of  these Android developers and people that are selling them. Carriers, et cetera. How's Google is going to help them with their security updates. This is an interesting way to do it. It's exactly what Apple's been doing.  You're listening to Craig Peterson. Apple's really gotten into the chip business and it isn't just because they wanted a chip for their iPhone that they could control.  In fact, Apple has even gone further and looks like Google's going to do the same. Hello, everybody. Craig Peterson here.  Google has been an interesting beast over the years. Remember they used to say that their motto was don't be evil. Then a few years ago they removed it from the website and evil seems to be their middle name, a little bit.  One of the things Google has been doing is offering an operating system that can be used and is being used to run almost anything. We're talking mostly, however, about smartphones, certainly by number.  That's called Android. Android was a little operating system, of sorts, that was developed by a kid actually Google bought it from him. They have continued to develop on it. It's not a bad little platform. The biggest problems with it really have to do with what I talked about a little earlier, the security, right? Getting the updates.  I mentioned how Apple really has a walled garden. They have their own environment where everything is contained so they can control it all. Google cannot control anything other than the Google pixel phone.  It cannot control what Samsung is doing with the operating system, Android can run on pretty much any chip that's manufactured from Intel chips, through all of these, a little fast chips, these snapdragons and many others that have been used over the years. There's a lot of them.  One of the biggest problems, of course, is the chip set. I've mentioned that Google can come out with an operating system release to fix some security problems, and then those are pushed out, but nothing's done by the carrier or maybe the developer of the handset. What Google's decided to do is make their own walled garden.  If you buy an Apple iPhone, you buy an Apple iPad, or you buy a new Apple Mac, they're all using the same basic chip set that's designed by Apple. They have some fabs where they're making some of these components. Apple has done that so again, they can control it even better. They don't have to pay that exorbitant Intel tax.  Also over at Apple trying to figure out how can we avoid the Qualcomm tax. It isn't just a Qualcomm, you know, I say tax, as in you pay way more for Intel than you would for another equivalent or better chip. In fact, I have an Apple right in front of me here, an Apple Mac. This is a Mac mini M1 based. It is way faster and cheaper than the Intel version.  You can still get the Intel version of the mini $200 more. There's your Intel tax. And it's about half the speed for some of these things.  For instance, Adobe said that this mac with the Apple chip set in it can be twice as fast as the Mac, same Mac with an Intel processor.  Apple is moving away from not just Intel now, but from Qualcomm. Google wants to move away from Qualcomm.  In many of these smartphones, including the pixels, they're using a Qualcomm Snapdragon chip. The Qualcomm makes a lot of different types of chips. They also tend to make the radio chips that are in our smartphones. The radio chips are used to talk to the cell towers, just send data to send our voice. That's what they're used for.   Apple is hiring developers right now to develop their own chip set. It might not be there for 5G. It might be 6G. In fact, that's what the advertisements for those jobs were about as 6G. But they're going to move away from all of these standard devices that are very expensive and hard to control.  Google is saying the biggest problem we have with making sure that users of the Android operating system get updates is Qualcomm. Interesting, isn't it?  Google is coming out with, what's known as a system on a chip, SOC. What that is, think of the motherboards of years past.  One of my first computers was an IBM three 60 30 mainframe, and this thing was huge and not much power.  It's just amazing to think about, but it really could sling data around even way back then. It was a nice little computer, if you will. Think about how big that motherboard was. Yeah. It had the main processor. You had the memory controllers, the bus controllers, you had everything right that needed to be there to support it. All of your IO stuff. I might have had serial UARTS built into it, et cetera, et cetera. A system on a chip is basically you got one chip and that's pretty much all you need. Obviously you got to have memory and you're going to have some sort of storage, other more permanent storage devices, but that's the basics of what a system on a chip is.  Google reportedly anyways, that the pixel six is expected to ship with Google custom white chapel is what it's going to be called system on a chip internally.  It's referred to as a GS101. And that GS could be for Google silicone. There's all kinds of people speculating that seems to be the kind of the big one.  There is a pixel six in the works. We do know that. Nine to five Google, is a website out there and they've done a lot of little spying on what's going on, but apparently it's a, I'm not going to get into all of the details, but basically it's going to have three CPU cores in it and everything. It's going to be really quite nice. A large arm core for single threaded work loads and three medium cores for multi work. We've had a problem over the years. How do you make your computer faster? And you can use Intel's approach, which is let's just throw more processors at it. That's great if the software you're using can handle multithreaded environments where you have multiple processors. Okay. You got multiple processors, but how about the access to the memory? What if the process is all one access to the same area of memory at the same time? Then you have to start blocking. It gets very complicated, very fast. Intel chips fade very, very fast. You don't have to get to too many CPU's before all of a sudden the addition of one more CPU cuts the performance of that new CPU by 50%. It really doesn't. It really doesn't take much.  They're all trying to get away from Intel. Many of them have, right? Obviously Google Android phones outside of Google as well have been based on non-Intel hardware for awhile, but they're also now trying to get rid of Qualcomm. And I think that's a good thing. Ultimately, it's going to help out a lot. We're going to see more of this thing in the future, and we're all going to benefit from it, right?  With the Google having control over their system on a chip, at least their pixel, it's going to make their life easier, which means if you buy a pixel, you're probably going to be able to get the upgrades better. Thinking in the back of my mind that maybe Samsung is looking to do the same thing. Maybe Samsung's looking to move away from the Qualcomm chips and move to Google's new system on a chip. I have no idea. I have no inside information, but that would seem to make sense for me, particularly if they want to provide support for years. By the way, Google is in the embarrassing position of offering less support for Android devices than Samsung, which is now up to three years of major updates, which by the way, is Qualcomm's maximum. Samsung has four years of security updates for some of their devices as well.  Stick around. You're listening to Craig Peterson.  You can find me online@craigpeterson.com. Don't go anywhere. You've heard about the no fly list, right? Yeah. How about the terrorist and other watch lists? These lists that people have found it's impossible to get their names off of, even when there was no reason to be there in the first place?  Well, I got some news. Hi, everybody. Craig Peterson here.  Department of Homeland security has been criticized for many things over the years. One of the things that's been criticized quite a bit about is this watch list that they maintain. They have a watch list for no fly. People get put on that watch list.  It was originally intended to be, we know this guy's a terrorist, so we're going to put them on, right.  It's not always the way it goes. It starts out almost innocuous and before you know, it, there's all kinds of people getting caught in this big, big net.  That's what's been happening lately and it's going to get worse because the Department of Homeland security has decided that they are going to hire regular old companies to help develop this no fly list and also this terrorist watch list.  Apparently these companies are going to be looking through all kinds of public data, maybe some private data, social media in order to provide information for this new domestic terror watch list. So you look at that and say, okay, I can see that.  We've talked to before problem, man, 20 years ago, I think I was talking about these data aggregators and the problems they create. Cause they're taking public records, they're putting them all together. They're figuring out how it all meshes together and they come up with a pretty accurate picture of who you are.  Now, I've got to say when I've had them on my show here before I was talking to them and said, okay, I want to look up my own records. So I looked them up on their platforms. I did not see a single one that was more than about 30% correct about me.  Now, this was again, some years ago. I think it's been probably almost a decade since I last spoke with the data aggregators. They really are trying to blend into the background, nowadays. This data that's put together by these artificial intelligence systems is not necessarily that accurate and that gets to be a real problem.  So who is DHS gonna hire? Well, from the description that has been reported on here by the Conservative Tree House, it is going to be big tech, specifically, Google, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, and more.  DHS is going to put them under contracts to hire and organize internal monitoring teams to assist the government by sending information on citizens, they deem dangerous again, what could go wrong?  Our government is not allowed to spy on us. How many times have we talked about this? You have of course the five eyes and then they added more and more. These are governments that spy on each other's citizens for each other.  So for instance, US cannot spy on US citizens. So we have an arrangement with the United Kingdom, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, to spy on the US citizens for us that makes sense to you. Can you believe that?  We spy on their citizens for them and they spy on our citizens for us and all is good.  What's happening here is The Department of Homeland security realizes it cannot spy on us directly.  This is what they've been doing for very long time, they go to the data aggregators and they pull up the data that they want.  They want to see if this guy maybe selling illicit drugs and they pull up public records. What cars does he have? How many homesdo they own?  Who's he dating?  Has she all of a sudden been buying diamonds and mink coats? What's going on here?  So now we're seeing that the US intelligence apparatus. It's really now going live quickly, to put together lists of Americans who could be potential threats to the government and need to be watched. Now it's all well, and good. It's just like president Biden this week saying, Oh, we're going to have these red flag laws. We're going to stop the sale of certain types of firearms and things. It all sounds good. The reality is we have known about some of these people before, right? This is all just a red herring that the federal government is doing right now because the real problem is these terrorists, the domestic and otherwise that have shot up schools have almost always been reported to law enforcement as dangerous people. Some of them have even been on lists that say they cannot buy firearms, and yet they get firearms. Bad guys.  It's like here in the US. Where does our fentanyl come from?  We're not making a domestically. Our fentanyl is coming from China often through Mexico, and it is killing people here in the US. The whole George Floyd incident, and what's happening with fentanyl in his system, right. The question is, did the police operate properly? What killed him? According to the coroner's report? It was the fentanyl. that killed him.  One way or the other that fentanyl got here from China and is being used on the streets and people are dying from it. Fentanyl's illegal. How, how could they possibly get it? It's illegal for a felon to be in possession of a firearm. How did it felon get the firearm? The police were warned about people in San Bernardino, California, they were warned. The people in that business told the police. We were calling. we're really worried about this guy and nothing happened. So now what are we going to do? We're going to cast an even wider net, when we cannot take care of the reports that come in right now. We're going to get even more reports and they're going to be coming from these AI systems. Again, what, what could possibly go wrong here? It's absolutely incredible. They look at these reports, they try and determine are these actionable, the FBI or other law enforcement agencies. They've been deciding no, it's not actionable. They've been right sometimes and they've been wrong other times. This is a real problem.  What shocked me is NBC news with Andrea Mitchell, NBC news. Not a centrist news organization, very far left. NBC news is even reporting on this. They're realizing the consequences. Here's a quote from NBC. "DHS planning to expand relationships with companies that scour public data for intelligent and to better harness the vast trove of data it already collects on Americans." "The department is also contemplating changes to its terrorist. Watch listing process." Absolutely amazing. "Two senior Biden administrative administration officials told NBC news that Homeland security whose intelligence division did not publish a warning of potential violence before the January sixth Capitol riots, is seeking to improve its ability to collect and analyze data about domestic terrorism, including the sorts of public social media posts that threatened a potential attack on the Capitol." "DHS is expanding its relationships with other companies that scour public data for intelligence. One of the senior officials said, and also to better harness the vast trove of data it already collects on Americans, including travel and commercial data through customs and border protection, immigration, customs enforcement, the coast guard, secret service, and other DHS components". There you go from NBC news. So remind yourself what the FBI contractors with access to the NSA database already did in their quest for political opposition, research and surveillance, and then get everything we were just talking about. The director of national intelligence declassified, a FISA judge's ruling. So this is judge James Boasberg, 2018 ruling, where the FBI conducted tens of thousands of unauthorized NSA database queries. Do you remember that story? Very, very big deal. This judge obviously passing these things out like candy and the FBI misusing its power and authority. Again, what could possibly go wrong?  By the way, President Obama apparently has been telling us that we should use the no fly list to keep people from owning guns.  There's already a database maintained by the FBI.  This whole thing is, as I said, a red herring things are going to get really bad if law enforcement does this. Frankly, they're going to do it. There's no two ways about it.  We have to be more careful about keeping our information, our data private. That's what this whole course that started last week was all about. Improving your Windows privacy and security. Locking it down because the way Microsoft ships windows and the way it installs and configures itself by default does not keep your data private. That's a problem. So that's what we're going through. Hopefully, you were able to get into that before we closed it Friday night.  Remind yourself of this and just keep chanting nothing bad could happen here, right? Ah, the joys of all of these computers and databases and the way the work in nowadays.  By the way, if your information is out there at all, even if you use fake names and numbers and addresses and things like I do when it's not required. Right.  I don't lie to the bank. I don't lie to the IRS. Nobody else needs to know the truth. Even if you have been, keep it private, good chance that they know who you are and where you are. Crazy. Crazy.  Hey, visit me online. Craig peterson.com. Make sure you subscribe to my weekly newsletter. Hi everybody. Of course, Craig Peterson here. We're going to talk today about these drone swarms, your personal privacy risk tolerance breach highlights here over orgs individuals. What's going on? Ransomwares way up. As usual, a lot to talk about. Hey, if you miss part of my show, you can always go online to Craig peterson.com. You'll find it there. If you're a YouTube fan CraigPeterson.com/youtube.  This is really an interesting time to be alive. Is that a good way to put it right? There used to be a curse "May you live in interesting times" Least that was the rumor.  One of the listeners pointed this out, there was a TV show that was on about five years ago, apparently, and it used this as a premise. I also saw a great movie that used this as a premise and it was where the President was under attack. He was under attack by drones.  The Biden administration has a policy now where they're calling for research into artificial intelligence, think the Terminator, where you can have these fighting machines.  These things should be outlawed, but I also understand the otherside where if we don't have that tech and our enemies end up having that tech, we are left at a major disadvantage. Don't get me wrong here. I just don't like the idea of anybody doing Terminators, Skynet type of technology. They have called for it  to be investigated.  What we're talking about right now is the drone swarms. Have you seen some of these really cool drones that these people called influencers? Man, the term always bothers me. So many people don't know what they're doing. They just make these silly videos that people watch and then they make millions, tens of millions, I guess it's not silly after all.  These influencers make these videos. There are drones that they can use if they're out hiking, you might've noticed or mountain biking or climbing. They have drones now that will follow them around, automatically. They are on camera. It's following them. It focuses in on their face. They can make the drone get a little closer or further away. As long as the sky is clear there's no tree branches or anything in the way that drone is going to be able to follow them, see what they're doing and just really do some amazing shots. I've been just stunned by how good they are.  Those drones are using a form of artificial intelligence and I'm not going to really get into it right now, but there are differences between machine learning and artificial intelligence, but at the very least here, it's able to track their faces. Now this is where I start getting really concerned. That's one thing. But they are apparently right now training. When I say they, the Chinese and probably us, too, are designing drones that not only have cameras on them, but are military drones.  They have without them having to have a central computer system controlling them or figuring out targets, they're able to figure out where there's a human and take them out. These small drones, they're not going to take them out by firing, a 50 caliber round at them. These drones can't carry that kind of firepower. It's just too heavy, the barrels and everything else -- it's a part of that type of a firearm.  We're talking about small drones again. So obviously they're not going to have a missile on them either. What they do is they put a small amount, just a fraction of an ounce, of high explosives on the drone.  The idea is if that drone crashes into you and sets off its explosives, you're dead, particularly if it crashes into and sets off explosives right there by your head. Now that's pretty bad when you get down to it. I don't like the whole Skynet Terminator part of this, which is that the drones are able to find that human and then kill them.  Think of a simple scenario where there is, let's say there's a war going on. Let's use the worst case scenario and, enemy troops are located approximately here. You send the drones out and the drone has of course, GPS built into it, or some other inertial guidance system or something in case GPS gets jammed.  That drone then goes to that area. It can recognize humans and it says, Oh, there's a human and it goes and kills the human. Now that human might be an innocent person. Look at all of the problems we've had with our aerial drones, the manually controlled ones, just the ones that we've been using in the last 10 years where we say, okay, there's a terrorist here. Now they fly it in from, they've got somebody controlling it in Nevada or wherever it might be, and they get their strike orders and their kill orders. They go in and they'd take it out. There are collateral damages. Now that's always been true.  Every war.  Look at Jimmy Stewart. For example, a younger kids probably don't know who it is. Mr. Smith goes to Washington was one of his movies.  He had some great Christmas movies and stuff too. Anyhow, Jimmy Stewart was a bomber. I think he was a pilot actually in World War II.  He flew combat missions over Germany. Think of what we did in Germany, in Japan, where we killed thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds, probably of thousands of civilians. We now think, Oh we're much better than that. We don't do that anymore. We're careful about civilian casualties. Sometimes to the point where some of our people end up getting in harm's way and killed.  For the most part, we try and keep it down.  A drone like this that goes into an area, even if it's a confined area, and we say, kill any humans in this area, there are going to be innocent casualties.  It might even be friendly fire. You might even be taking out some of your own people.  They've said, okay we've got a way around this. What we're going to do is we're going to use artificial intelligence. The drone doesn't just pick out, Oh, this is a human. I'm going to attack that person. It looks at the uniform, it looks at the helmet.  It determines which side they're on.  If they're wearing an American or Chinese uniform, whatever, it might be programmed for it again, it goes into the area, it finds a human and identifies them as the enemy. Then it goes in and hits them and blows up killing that person. That's one way that they are looking to use drones. The other way is pretty, scary. It's, you can defend yourself against a drone like that. You've got a drone coming. You're probably going to be able to hear it. Obviously it depends. That drone gets close. I don't know if you've ever had the kids playing with drones, flying them around you, or you've done the same thing. You can always hit it out of the air, can't you?   If you're military and you have a rifle in your arm, you can just use the rifle and play a little baseball with that drone. There's some interesting stories of people who've been doing that already.  What happens if we're not talking about a drone, we're talking about a drone swarm. I don't know that you could defend against something like that. There have been studies that have been done. So think, you think there nobody's really working this suit? No, they sure are.  What's going to happen? Well, the Indian army is one that has admitted to doing tests and they had a swarm of 75 drones. If you have 75 drones coming after you, let's say you're a high value target. There is no way you're going to be able to defend yourself against them, unless you can duck and cover and they can't get anywhere near you with their high explosives. The Indian army had these Kamikaze-attack drones. They don't necessarily have to even have high explosives on them.   This is a new interpretation under Joseph Biden. Mr. President of the Pentagon's rules of use of autonomous weapons. We've always had to have "meaningful human control." That's the wording that they Pentagon uses meaningful human control over any lethal system. Now that could be in a supervisory role rather than direct control. So they call it "human on the loop" rather than "human in the loop." But this is a very difficult to fight against.  The US army is spending now billions of dollars on new air defense vehicles. These air defense vehicles have cannons two types of missiles, jammers.  They're also looking at lasers and interceptor drones, so they can use the right weapon against the right target at the right time. That's going to be absolutely vital here because it's so cheap to use a drone. Look what happened. What was a year plus ago now? I'm trying to remember, Central America, Venezuela, somewhere in there where El Presidente for life was up giving a speech. I'm sorry. I didn't mean that to be insulting, but that often is what ends up happening. A drone comes up and everybody's thinking: Oh, it's a camera drone, wave to the camera thing. It got very close to the President and then blew up. On purpose, right? They were trying to murder the president. That's a bad thing. He was okay. I guess some of the people got minor injuries, relatively speaking. When we're looking at having large numbers of incoming threats, not just one drone, but many drones, many of those drones may be decoys.  How cheap is it to buy one of these drones? Just like the ones that were used in China over the Olympic stadium, where they were all controlled by a computer. You just have these things, decoys, all you need is a few of them that can blow up and kill the people you want to kill very concerning if you ask me.  We're paying attention to this as are other countries as they're going forward.  We're going to talk about building your privacy risk tolerance profile, because if you're going to defend yourself, you have to know what you're going to defend against and how much defense do you need? Hey, we take risks every day. We take risks when we're going online. But we're still getting out of bed. We're still going into the bathroom. We're still driving cars. How about your online privacy risk tolerance? What is it? Hi everybody. Thanks for joining me.  We all take risks, and it's just part of life. You breathe in air, which you need. You're taking the risk of catching a cold or the flu, or maybe of having some toxic material inhaled. We just don't know do we?  Well on any given day, when we go online, we're also facing risks. And the biggest question I have with clients when I'm bringing businesses on or high value individuals who need to protect themselves and their information is: okay... what information do you have that you want to try and protect? And what is your personal privacy risk tolerance? So we build a bit of her profile from that and you guys are going to get the advantage of doing that right now without having to pay me my team. How's that for simple?  First of all, we got to understand that nothing is ever completely safe. When you're going online, you are facing real risks and no matter what people tell you, there is no way to be a hundred percent sure that your data is going to be safe online or that your individual personal, private information is going to be safe while you're online. And there's a few reasons for this.  The most obvious one, and the one we think about, I think the most has to do with advertising. There are a lot of marketers out there that want to send a message to us at exactly the right time. The right message too obviously? So how can they do that? They do that by tracking you via Google. So Google that's their whole business model is to know everything they can about you and then sell that information. Facebook, same thing. Both of those companies are trying to gather your information. They're doing it when you are not just on their sites, but when you are on other people's sites. Third party sites are tracking you. In fact, if you go to my website @ craigpeterson.com, you'll see that I do set a Facebook cookie. So I know that you're on Facebook and you visited my site and you might be interested in this or that.  Now I'm not a good marketer. Because I'm not using that information for anything, at least not right now, hopefully in the future, we'll start to do some stuff. But that's what they're doing. And the reason why I don't think it's a terrible thing don't know about you. I don't think it's bad that they know that I'm trying to go ahead and buy a car right now. Because if I'm trying to buy a car, I want advertisements about cars and I don't want to advertisements about the latest Bugatti or Ferrari, whatever it might be. I want a Ford truck, right? Just simple something I can haul stuff around. You already know I have a small farm, and I need a truck because you need one. I'd love to have a front loader and everything too, those costs money and I ain't got it. So that makes sense to me.  And now there's the other side, which is the criminal side. And then there's really a third side, which is the government side. So let's go with the government side here. In the United States our government is not supposed to track us. Now I say "supposed to," because we have found out through Edward Snowden and many other means that they have been tracking us against the law. And then they put in some laws to let them do some of it, but our government has been tracking us. And one of the ways it tracks us is through the "five eyes" program and now that's been expanded and then expanded again. But the five eyes program is where the United States asks the United Kingdom. Hey, listen. Hey bro. Hey, we can't and we're not allowed to track our citizens, but your not us.  How about we have you track,  Trump and his team? Yeah, that's what we'll do.  So there's an example of what evidence is showing has happened. So they go to a third party country that's part of this agreement,d where all of these countries have gotten together, how signed papers and said, yeah, we'll track each other citizens for each other. And that way the United States could say, Hey, we're not tracking you. And yet they're tracking because they're going to a third party country. And the United States, if you are going out of the country, then again, they can track you. Any communications are going out of the country. So that's the government side. And then of course, there's governments that track everything. You look at China and how they control all of the media. They control all of the social networking sites. They basically control everything out there.  We have to be careful with all of that stuff because it can and will be used. And we've seen it has been used to really not just harass people, but do things like throw them in prison disappear them. Look at what just happened in China, with the head of China's biggest company, basically the Amazon competitor over there. And he disappeared for months and then came back, just praising the Chinese Communist government and how great it is to have all of these people over there. Just telling them what to do and how to do it.  We obviously don't live in China. We obviously, I think have oligarchs nowadays. We have people who are rich, who are running the country. They're giving money to campaigns, they get the ear. You seen all of the bribery allegations against the Biden crime family, or his brother, his son, other members, himself as well, based on a hundred Biden's laptop. So I don't trust government for those very reasons.  The hackers let's get into the hackers here. When it comes to hackers, there are, again, a few different types. You've got hackers that are working for governments. And what they're doing is in the case of a small government, like North Korea, they're trying to get their hands on foreign currencies so that they can use those currencies to buy grain, to buy oil, coal, whatever it is they might need to buy. You have governments like China and Russia that are trying to basically run World War three. And they're out there with their hacking teams and groups and trying to figure out how do we get into the critical infrastructure in the United States? Okay. So this is how we get in. Okay. We're in over there. So if we ever want to shut down all of the power to New York City, this is what we do.  Now remember, that's what happened back in, in when was that 2004, I guess that was, yeah. I remember I was down in, I was heading actually to New York city and then all of a sudden, all of the power went out. That apparently was an accident, but it didn't need to be an accident. There are all kinds of, allegations about what actually happened there. But that's why China and Russia are trying to get into our systems. And then they obviously want to play havoc. Look at the havoc that was caused in the U S economy by this China virus that came obviously from China for Huan. if they wanted to shut down our economy, they now have proof that's all it takes. And they are working on the genetics of some of these viruses over there in China. And they're trying to modify the genes and they are the running experiments on their troops to enhance them, to make these super soldiers that maybe, need less sleep or less food are stronger or et cetera, et cetera, they are doing that.  So China is a real threat from just a number of different ways. What would it be like if they could shut down our banking system or make it so we don't trust it anymore?  Okay. That's part one of your Personal Privacy Risk Tolerance Profile. Stick around because we're going to talk more about this and what you can do to help you have privacy. What is your online, personal privacy risk tolerance? It's going to vary, I help high value individuals. I help businesses with this, and now I'm helping you as well. So let's get into part two. Craig Peterson here.  When people ask me, what should I do? That is a very nuanced question. At least it's a very nuanced to answer because you could say something like: if you want to be private, use Signal for  messaging and useTorr for web browsing, that's fine. And it works in some ways and not in others. For instance, Tor is a web browser that is like a super VPN.  It is set up so that you're not just coming from one exit point, you're coming from a whole bunch of different points on the internet. So it's hard to track you down. The problem, however, with Tor is the same problem that you have with VPN services. And I talk about this all the time. VPN services do not make your data secure. It does not keep it private. And in the case of VPN services that you might get for free or even buy, and also the case with Tor. Using those VPN services that can make you less secure again. Why did Sutton rob banks? He robbed banks because that's where the money was, where he is a bad guy going to go. If they want easy and quick access to lots of peoples. Private information?  They're going to hack a VPN server aren't they? Yeah. And if they can't hack the VPN server, why not just have server space in the same data center that VPN provider is renting their space from and then hack it from there, try and get in from there. Or maybe get into the service; the data centers will logs or the VPN servers logs, because even when they say they don't log, they all log, they have to log, they have to have your information otherwise, how can they bill you? And the ones that say we don't log, which are those people are "lieing" by the way. But those guys that have these VPN servers and they're trying not to log, they're trying not to log where you're going. They get fooled all of the time as well. Because their servers have logs, even if they're deleted and disappear.  So I just wanted to make it clear that you, I, if you have a low risk tolerance, when it comes to your privacy, Tor is not going to do it for you. VPN services are not going to do it for you. You have to look at all of the individual things you're doing online and then decide based on those. What is it that is the most. Beneficial for you in that particular case. Okay.  So Signal, I brought it up. So let's talk about it for a minute. Signal is the messaging app to use bar none. Signal is encrypted and do, and it is known to be highly secure, which again, Doesn't mean it's a hundred percent, but with Signal, you can talk to people on other platforms. You can have a Mac and talk to somebody on a, on an Android or a windows device.  But another consideration is who are you talking to? If you're talking to other people that have Macs and you don't want your information to get out, but you're not horrifically worried about it, right? You want it to be private. You want end to end encryption. You're better off using iMessage on your Mac.  If you're on Windows or Android, there are not any great built-in messaging apps. WhatsApp. If you listened last week and I've got it up on my website, WhatsApp is not great. They claim it's not horrible, but why would you use it if there's a question use Signal instead. All right. So there's just a lot to consider when we're talking about it, but here is your big bang for the buck thing. That you can do. And that is use password manager. Now we talked about how Google Chromium Google's Chrome and of course now Microsoft edge. Actually it was the other way around Microsoft edge came up with it first and now Google's adding it. But Edge has this password manager built-in. That's all well and good, but I don't know, trust those. I use a third party password manager that is designed for password management and that's all the company does. They're focused on the security behind it, which is why I recommend 1Password and lLastPass. 1Password being my absolute favorite. Use those password managers. That's the biggest bang for your buck if you have a low tolerance for your information, getting out. All right?  Now that will help to enforce good password habits. It will generate passwords for you, both of those, and it'll generate good passwords and it'll keep them for you, which is really great. If you don't want to be tracked while you're browsing online, you can use an ad blocker. I have a couple of webinars I've done on that. If you want a video of one of those webinars to go through that talks about these different blockers ad blockers and others. I'd be glad to send you a link to one of them, but you're going to have to email Me@craigpeterson.com. And I will send you a link to one of those webinars I did on that stuff. No problem. But some websites are going to break when you use an ad blocker. So sometimes you have to turn it off and you have to turn it back on. The ones I tell you  how to use and how to configure, I actually show you a step-by-step we walked through it. Those allow you to turn off that particular ad blocker on an individual site that was broken because of the ad blocker. So pretty straightforward. You don't have to remember to turn it all on and all off. All right.  Now studies are showing that people are concerned about their privacy. In fact, I believe last I saw said that I think it was about 70% of Americans believe that their smart phones are being tracked by advertisers, and the tech companies provide them with the information.  May, 2020 Pew research report talked about this, but 85% of consumers worry, they can trust corporations with their data. So what do you do? Because. Most people don't have the support or the tools. They don't have. I have the money, they didn't get a big inheritance. They're not a high value individual that needs my help and can afford it -- where we go through everything that they do and make sure they have the best solution for each thing, including banking, including going online and trading stocks, all of that stuff. You gotta be very careful with all of that stuff.  I'm really sad that I have to say this here, but there are no online privacy solutions that will work for everybody. And there are no solutions that work in every situation either. So what you need to do is understand what you care the most about. And I think for all of us, what we should care the most about is our financial situation and anything associated with that: our intellectual property, if we're businesses, our bank accounts, all of that sort of stuff is stuff we really should be concerned about. And that means you need to watch it. Make sure you're not sharing stuff that you really don't want to share. Okay?  So even privacy experts like myself, don't lock everything down. We locked most of it down. Particularly since we have department of defense clients, we have to maintain a very high standard.  All right. Stick around and visit me online. CraigPeterson.com. Make sure you sign up for my newsletter. You'll get all of the latest news and the tips I send out every week. I don't want to leave you hanging. We're going to get into a few more things to consider here, because obviously we are going to share some of our personal information. So I'm going to tell you how I share my personal information and it might be a bit of a surprise. Hello everybody. Thanks for listening.  We all enjoy products and services, and that's what I'm saying. When when I talk about security experts, we don't lock everything down. I've used 23 in me. I did that thing, of course, I'm sending in my DNA. That's been an issue in some cases, but that's what I did. I use these online map programs. I use Google maps. I use weighs more than Google maps. I use Apple maps cause I'm trying to figure out how do I get to where I want to go in a reasonable amount of time. But what I do is I lie about the answer to the security questions. Okay. I don't want them to know my dad's name. My mother's maiden name, the street. I was, I grew up on my first school, my first car, none of their business. Because it's a lot of that information is actually publicly available. How many of us on LinkedIn have right there in our profile? Yeah I went to McGill university or I w I grew up here's pictures of my childhood home, and that picture has GPS coordinates in it. So if we use the real information. We are giving away way too much. I use a little phrase I coined here, which is lie to your bank. And you might remember. I did a show on that sometime ago. And the idea here is in your line to the bank about your financial situation, it's nothing like that. You're lying to your bank about this personal information. They don't need to know these personal questions. They give you for their security questions. It's really important to understand all of this stuff. Okay. For instance, this is Jennifer Granick, she's at the ACL, you and she said her dad died recently. And the accountant said it's really important to report the death to credit companies because the answers to many of the security questions are on the public death certificate. So answers to security questions really can be a nightmare, but that doesn't mean you have to give them the right answers. So for instance, I found a site online. I should try and dig that up again, but it generated fake identities. And I had a generate like 5,000 of them for me thinking, okay, they might go at some point and it even generated fake social security numbers, fake phone numbers, names, addresses, everything, everything you'd need for a fake identity. And the idea here isn't to cheat anybody out of anything. The idea is, Hey, Mr. Website, you don't know, you don't need to know who I really am. So on some websites, I'm female some websites I've, I'm only 30 years old on other websites. I'm 80 years old. It doesn't matter. You can call it a lie if you want. But in reality, you're just trying to keep your information straight not and another advantage. Of these password managers. Cause you're trying to keep your information straight, right? It's hard to remember a lie and you have to tell a lie to enforce a lie. You're not, all that stuff your mother told you. And she's right about that too, by the way. But if you're using a password manager, what I do is I create a unique email address. In fact, my email addresses are extremely unique, so I'll use a plus sign as part of my email address and my mail server knows. Oh, okay. That's just Craig trying to track who is using. That email address. So I'll have Craig plus YouTube for instance, or@mainstreamdotnetorcraigpeterson.com. I actually have a whole bunch of domains that I use as well. And if you want a secure email service have look at proton mail. They're actually very good from a security standpoint. So there's nothing illegal about giving them this information. Yeah. You're lying to them, but you gotta keep your lies straight. Another reason to use a password manager because I have the password manager generate my. My password I put in the email, which is unique for every website I go to, I never use that same email address twice if I can avoid it. And then I, and I use aliases too in my email server. And then I go and in my notes section for that website in my password manager, I put in the answers to the security questions and I just make stuff up nonsensical stuff. So it's asking what my first car, it might be a transformational snooze. There you go. I just made something up. So I'll put those notes into my notes in my password manager and save them. So if I ever have to do some sort of a recovery with those guys, it's going to be simple. Because I just look in my password manager, I got to go in there anyways to get my password right. And my email address or username to login. And there it is, there's my security questions. And then the password manager, cause I'm using one password. It has a little database, it keeps and everything in there

Bible Reading: John 3:16-18; Colossians 1:21-23Summer was sitting at the kitchen table working on school when she heard Mom yell from the backyard. "Summer! A bird needs to be rescued!" Dropping her pencil, Summer ran outside. Mom pointed to the middle of the ice skating rink Dad had constructed over the winter. There was the tiniest baby turkey, cheeping noisily and trying to jump out of the now grass-filled rink. "Oh, it's adorable! How did it get stuck in there?" Mom shook her head. "I'm still trying to figure that out. See the mom and all its brothers and sisters over there in the woods? I watched them hop into the rink and walk through, then this little one couldn't get back out. I'm worried because the mom doesn't seem to know and keeps going farther away." Summer carefully knelt down by the frightened little turkey and gently scooped it up. "Come on, Miracle. I'll take you back to your family." She stepped lightly across the yard and placed the baby close to its siblings. Mom and Summer watched as Miracle darted over to her family and got right in line, following them deep into the woods. "Miracle is a perfect name for that baby turkey," Mom said with a smile. "You do such a good job taking caring of critters that can't help themselves." Summer grinned. "Thanks. I love animals, so whenever I see one in trouble, I come to the rescue!" She tapped the side of the ice rink with her foot. "You know, Mom, when I was holding Miracle, I was thinking of how God rescued us by sending us His Son, Jesus. We couldn't help ourselves--nothing we do could ever be good enough for us to have a close friendship with God and go to heaven one day. We needed to be rescued from our sin, and since Jesus is perfect, His sacrifice on the cross for our sins was the only rescue that would work." Mom's eyes filled with tears of joy. "Absolutely! I'm so thankful that God loved us enough to send Jesus to rescue us from our darkness and bring us into His light." Summer and her mom laughed as they heard a turkey gobble loudly in the distance. "Mom, I think they agree!" (Savannah Coleman)How About You?Did you know God sent His Son to rescue you? Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. We don't have to follow a set of rules or try to get to heaven in our own strength because Jesus has already paid the price for our salvation on the cross. He is our Rescuer. Trust in Him and you will be saved. (To learn more, click the "Good News!" button in the right column of this page.)Today's Key Verse:For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves. (NIV) (Colossians 1:13 )Today's Key Thought:Jesus is our Rescuer

Hello lovely. Today, I want to talk about living a life IN BLOOM, by mastering the garden of your mind. Did you know your mind is a literal garden? Let me walk you through the golden gate and show you EXACTLY how:  Point one:  Your thoughts are the seeds. The harvest can either be flowers or weeds.”This famous metaphor speaks volumes about the influence our unconscious mind has on creating the results we get in life.So, lets dig in (no pun intended).First.  What’s in a thought?Your subconscious mind consists of many things you may not be aware of or give much thought to day-to-day, such as -beliefs, -habits, -values, -attitudes and ....-behaviours to name a few.Think of the subconscious mind as the soil in which you plant your garden. It offers a foundation for the seeds to grow and take root, providing plants with the resources they need to take life and to thrive. However, the soil does not discriminate; it’s sole purpose is to support the ecosystem and it's immunity – the good, the bad and the ugly.Your conscious mind consists of your thoughts and feelings about the things you notice and ultimately do. This is the part of your mind you are aware of day-to-day. In this garden analogy, the seeds you plant in your garden are, collectively, your conscious mind. Every thought you think is a seed.So what?A conscious thought which reappears often will eventually embed itself into your subconscious mind, where it will grow into a permanent belief. Depending on the thought, this can work for you or against you - and the trickiest part, is that we're often unconscious to our beliefs, and they run on a negative bias framework of 90% of our thoughts daily. Now, who wants a garden like that?  Getting the picture? When we plant a seed in our garden, it always grows into what the seed was meant to be. f you plant roses, you will reap roses. If you plant lavender, you will reap lavender.Just like the seeds you plant in a garden, the thoughts you think also grow into what they are meant to be. For example, if your thoughts are mainly about how hard it is to get fit ( or whatever your desire is), you will unconsciously foster beliefs in your mind at its deepest level to support this. As a result, you will walk, talk, feel and act like a person who holds this belief. You will develop unconscious habits and behaviors to support this belief and naturally, will get the results that perfectly reinforce these beliefs. That is, in this example, poor fitness levels and in the long run, health problems. Will this adversely impact your life? Absolutely.In life, it has been said that “you get what you focus on, to the exclusion of everything else.” Your outer reality reflects your inner-thoughts and beliefs with great precision.Only you can tend to your inner-garden; that is your mind. It is your responsibility to seed and fertilise your inner-garden with the plants you want to grow. Remember, the subconscious mind does not discriminate between thoughts. Our garden grows the seed that is planted whether it is desirable or not.  And, there is a significant penalty for neglecting your inner garden: a life not of your choosing.So how do we create our own beautiful garden?We must be present and conscious in our lives.THIS IS THE KEY TO UNLOCKING THE GARDEN OF THE MIND.  Choose to be mindful and present in the seeds that you plant and in how you nurture them. Fleeting thoughts are like seeds blown in with the wind. They do not get planted, watered and nourished unless we choose to do so. When you choose to focus on repeated thoughts, you reinforce and reaffirm them, meaning they grow stronger and deeper roots. They take up more space in your garden. Alternatively, when you step back to observe and analyse your thoughts as they come, you can decide to keep those which serve you; and remove those that do not serve you. You can also encourage the growth of the plants you’d like to see more of and resolve to focus on cultivating this area going forward.Success takes time, effort, tenacity and a great deal of focus - but it can be fun - and damnit - quite fruitful!Successful people consciously choose to focus on where they’re heading NOW with clarity. They surround themselves with good seeds and flourishing flowers - and no- I'm not talking bout PANSIES!  Unsuccessful people, do not. And, further supporting Wordsworth’s garden metaphor, Earl Nightingale once said: “You become what you think about most of the time.”

Fabian Geyrhalter:Welcome to the show, Eddie.Eddie Hartman:Thank you so much.Fabian Geyrhalter:Well, thrilled to have you here. I've been a customer of LegalZoom for, I don't know, I believe it must be 15 years or so by now, creating DBAs, and trademarks, and all of that good stuff one has to deal with as an entrepreneur. You created LegalZoom 20 years ago with two friends, as a digital tech company that helps its customers create legal documents without necessarily having to hire a lawyer. And you built it into the best known legal brand in the United States. Last year, one in four LLCs in California were started through LegalZoom. It might have been more by now. And you have over four million customers. More than half of all Americans know the brand. How did it start? Take us back 20 years ago, you and two friends, how did you come up with this quite revolutionary idea that point in time?Eddie Hartman:What a great question. And I have to say, when we began, we had no idea that we would be founding what I'm told is the oldest unicorn. Did you know that?Fabian Geyrhalter:Yes, I actually heard that. I heard that too. It's quite impressive.Eddie Hartman:Aileen Lee at Cowboy Ventures coined the term unicorn, at the time of course it didn't exist. But can you imagine? LegalZoom is now the oldest unicorn. When we began it, we thought it might top out at 16 million. That was our dream. You know maybe, maybe. My two friends were both lawyers and they had great jobs at great law firms. And Brian Lee, in particular, who went on to found the Honest Company with Jessica Alba and ShoeDazzle with Kim Kardashian, he said, "You know, I didn't leave my job at a very good law firm, Skadden Arps, to become an employee of a small company that I started. I love to become the founder of a large company. But for us, large was maybe 16 million at max. Brian used to show us with his hand, where he thought maybe one day, the stack of outgoing LLC packages might reach. Because this was the most important thing to us, and I think any entrepreneur can relate. The big sale, the big purchase, the biggest ticket item that we sold was a gold incorporation or LLC package.             And it went in a special FedEx box, a flattish box, not a big carton, but a box that maybe was an inch and a half, two inches high. And we would ship them out, they'd sit on the front desk, and we'd look at that stack of boxes, and it was the measure of our success. And Brian, once in the early days, put his hand on top of that box, and he said, "Eddie, someday, this stack is going to be up to here." And you know, by his chin. I want to let you know, we now have a separate dedicated facility-Eddie Hartman:Of course.Eddie Hartman:Just to handle those. It grew from a stack into sort of a back bay of the building, because we would have to have a truck come up and take all the packages. And finally, it outgrew that and we now own a separate facility just to handle all those packages. And it's been extraordinarily rewarding to see the growth, which really means the acceptance, how many people see value in what LegalZoom brings to their lives, how many people find that their opportunities are unlocked by what legalism gives them. We had a really great guy, Daniel Kent, came to work for us for a few years. He's now a Berkeley PhD. But at the time, he did a study and he found that LegalZoom had started more than one in six charities in the United States.Fabian Geyrhalter:Oh wow.Eddie Hartman:Yeah, you don't start a business thinking that, "Oh, we're also going to have an enormous charitable impact." But there we were looking at the numbers, one in six, more than one in six American charities were started. And my partner said to me, "You know, this is a great number. This is a really amazing thing. We should let people know this number." I said, "Yeah you know, that is great. But here's a bigger question that we'll never really be able to answer. How many of those charities never would have started if it weren't for an easy way to get a 501(c)(3), that is to say tax exempt designation?" How many charities are never started? Is maybe the better question. How many businesses are never started? How many families go unprotected, because the benefits the law are out of reach? And reach doesn't necessarily mean too expensive. It may simply be too complex or too time consuming.            We're in a democracy. The benefits of the law that's supposed to be our birthright, but if it's too cumbersome... Again, which might be inconvenient or complex, but it also might be too expensive, something we can't afford, inaccessible in one way or another. We are cheated in a way. We're cheated of our birthright. We're cheated of the basic promise that we're supposed to have as participants in a democracy, that we have equal protection, that we have equal access, that we have equal benefit. And so when I think about those charities that were never started, or those businesses that were never launched, or those families that are unprotected, I think this is a crisis. This is a plague. This is something that could be corrected. There needs to be more LegalZooms. LegalZoom is just one player. And even though we're very proud of what it's done, when you think about the latent legal market, the millions of unlaunched ships, that's honestly, what keeps me up at night.Fabian Geyrhalter:Well, a couple of questions about this. This was extremely interesting. On the LegalZoom site, the brand states, "We are not going to rest until everyone has access to legal care." And based on what you just said, it almost sounds like a not-for-profit organization's manifesto, right? Like a rallying cry. How does LegalZoom push how it's done? And do you also have a nonprofit arm as part of it? Or do you just organize in a way and run the business in a way where you feel like you want to empower as many as possible, and hence, there doesn't need to be a nonprofit part of it?Eddie Hartman:Well, I believe deeply, that the blood that pumps through a company's veins, is the profit that it generates. Without that, of course, you can't pay people. But more importantly, you can't innovate. You can't get the word out. I think, in fact, the mark of value... And in my new role, I'm now a partner at Simon-Kucher, and I'm very frankly honored and grateful for my role there. It's an amazing organization. But one of the things that we have as a mantra, if you think about it this way. If I asked you, "How do you measure value?" You might say, "Well, I think about what a thing is worth." Well, okay, sure. But how can you put a number on it? I would argue that the best way to measure value is to ask, "What would you pay for it?" And if you could stack up dollars or coins, whatever it might be, and measure that stack.             Just like Brian used to measure that stack of gold LLC packages. That's a measure of value right there. We don't have a yardstick, we can't measure it in gallons or something, miles. We need a different way to measure. And I would argue that the money that you exchange is a great proxy for value. So when we think about LegalZoom, it's a mission-driven company that makes a profit. It makes a profit because it delivers value. Without the profit, it would not be able to pursue its mission. That is how I see it. The test of LegalZoom as an organization, really any organization, is are you providing sufficient value that you can continue to provide value and expand the value you provide?Fabian Geyrhalter:Absolutely, absolutely. Love this. Listen, going back to the founder story, just for one more second there, because I'm sure everyone is asking themselves the same question. When you were eliminating the need for small businesses, in the very beginning, right? And I mean, continuously so. But in the beginning, to hire a lawyer, right? That was a tremendously disruptive thought. It was you literally fighting the good fight, so to speak. How was that uphill battle until you were legally ready to offer your services? And I'm almost sure that there must have been lawsuits by law firms or industry groups earlier on to try to stop you from what you were about to do, because it was obviously harming their trajectory.Eddie Hartman:I love this question. I wonder if you ever had a time of your life, probably in your mid 20s, when it felt like every weekend was taken up with a friend's wedding over the summer. It's the time of life when everyone's getting married all at once. And then when the weather's turning nice, you know, May, June, July, suddenly, every single weekend, you're going to a wedding. That was me for a period of time, except instead of weddings, I was going to depositions. [I was the most heavily deposed person. I've never encountered anyone that's been deposed as often as I have. And I think it stems from a misunderstanding. The misunderstanding is that LegalZoom somehow does not want people to speak to lawyers or hire lawyers, which is almost baffling to me at this point. LegalZoom has many lawyers, then it has as employees it works with. We work with a network of law firms.            We pass more... I would guess I don't know any numbers about this. But I would guess that we pass more people to consult with lawyers than any other single organization in the world. We love businesses hiring lawyers, and using lawyers appropriately. I think all we tried to do was say that there's some things where if you choose to, you don't need a lawyer. So when you form your LLC, you can use LegalZoom to get that done, if you choose, and a lawyer doesn't need to be involved, which may make it more affordable for you, or make it more in your control. Some people really like the feeling of power of control. I've done this for myself. However, I would say that LegalZoom really tries to make sure that anyone who starts a company or frankly, forms a will or anything else through Legal Zoom, then speaks with a lawyer. And in fact, we took advantage of something that was, I think, less well known, which is a prepaid legal plan. These were plans established in the 1970s by unions.             Unions wanted their members to have access to good legal counsel, but it's hard to afford. Especially, for a lot of people, very difficult to afford. So they created these special plans, which were approved by authorities in every state. And as a union member, you could buy into a prepaid plan and then have access to a lawyers counsel. LegalZoom followed in that model- So honestly, and the thing, I think, also you should know is that I am a lawyer, and I became a lawyer while at LegalZoom. I never went to law school though. I taught very briefly at Yale Law, and I taught briefly at Stanford Law. And I had to tell my class that it was my first time at a law school. I became a lawyer [inaudible 00:13:25] for the bar after doing an apprenticeship. So I never went to law school, but I did become a lawyer because I believe so deeply in the importance, and really the primacy of lawyers. I actually named my firstborn son, my sweet little boy, Darrow, after Clarence Darrow. The lawyer that famously gave up his high paying job for the railroads, and started fighting for the common man. I believe that lawyers are some of the most civic-minded, good hearted, and intelligent, and often brave people among us.            But unfortunately, I think the legal system that they find themselves employed by often betrays them. They have this idea that they're going to be able to fight for right and go to court and defend justice. And what they get instead is a mind numbing, soul crushing job, where they're required to, at the end of the day, measure up their worth in six minute increments. Because that's what a law firm lawyer does. They have to mark down their time in six minute increments and justify what they did. It's a [inaudible 00:14:39] system. So what did LegalZoom do in the early days? I think we stepped into a crazy imbalanced system, where most people felt that the benefits of the law were beyond their reach or too cumbersome, and hopefully, created an alternative where we still do try to connect people with lawyers, but perhaps in a healthier and more effective structure. I think that was the big change.Fabian Geyrhalter:I mean, it was extremely liberating. I mean, even for myself. Being an entrepreneur and having started my companies and going through LegalZoom, I mean, it's been... I don't know, how many interactions I had with LegalZoom over the years. And for me, I'm kind of the generation where I was born into it, right? When LegalZoom came out 20 years ago, that's about when I got really serious about doing the legal portion of my business. Before, I was just running a business. Let's talk a little bit more about lawyers. And what you just said about how lawyers are being seen and the reality of it. Influencer marketing is huge today, right? But it really has been for decades, just under different names. The idea of affiliating a brand with an influential person from within their segment has its benefits, and it has its risks, and you might know where I'm heading with this. It seems like you guys were living that story having celebrity lawyer, Robert Shapiro, as your co-founder, who...            For those of you who are not in LA, or maybe not even in the US. Robert Shapiro was infamous for successfully defending O.J. Simpson back in 1995. But he was a co-founder. How did this come about? And I think he already talked a little bit about a shift in how lawyers pursued their career. How did it come about and did it have the desired effect on the brand? And how did you guys all work together?Eddie Hartman:Well, I'll say two things; the first of which is anyone who... And I mean this in the best spirit. Anyone who has anything bad to say about Bob Shapiro is going to have to do a fist fight with me. I love that man. He is one of the most... I'd say in some ways, he's one of the kindest people in the world, and he's been through personal tragedy that people don't understand. And I won't belabor it, but his son, Brent, used to... He had, I should say, two sons. And his older son Brent was my employee, when he tragically died at age 23. And people, I think, they don't realize. Bob Shapiro has been through... In his long career, he has done so many things, so many things. Defend major, major lawsuits, major, major actions, huge clients, vast things settled, and yet... Of course, what he is best known for is a moment in the 90s.Fabian Geyrhalter:Yep.Eddie Hartman:Okay. I actually was off the grid when that was happening. I was living in Montana. I didn't catch the whole O.J. thing. Only I only heard about-Fabian Geyrhalter:Well timing.Eddie Hartman:I found out about it afterward. But I will say, of course, the notoriety of that case, and I think we can say notoriety here, made Bob famous. And his fame helped us in more than one way. Obviously, it brought attention to LegalZoom, which was great. I was once asked on a plane. You know, you're always asked on a plane, "What do you do?" And I explained, "Oh yes, I started this company." And she said, "Oh, what does the company do?" And I said, "Well, it helps you, you can use it to form a will or an incorporation or trademark or patent." And she said, "Oh. Wow, you must get a lot of competition from Robert Shapiro's company." [crosstalk 00:18:40] [inaudible 00:18:40]. She said, "Oh, no, I don't think so." Then I said, [crosstalk 00:18:48]. But the other thing that it brought us was, because of his fame... Bob had a lot of business experience that we lacked.             He had been involved with Wolfgang Puck, early in the day, who became so famous. The founder of Spago, and a chain of other restaurants. So Bob brought a lot of business acumen. And he had the business acumen because the O.J. Simpson case had propelled him to fame. That's definitely true, definitely true. But I would say the other thing about the relationship is that it brought us knowledge on so many different levels than just his just a celebrity. And I want to tell you one more fun fact. My dear partner, Brian Lee, was the one who brokered the introduction to Robert Shapiro. And at the time, he really was Robert Shapiro. He's this famous lawyer that we'd never met. His office is at the top of... If you liked the movie, Die Hard... Nakatomi Plaza, where the action takes place, his actual office was in that building where [inaudible 00:20:06]            And so we got to meet him, and it's very intimidating. A very huge office, beautiful. Barely looks up. We're doing our song and dance. He told us we had five minutes. We've taken much longer, and he's not really paying attention to us. And finally, he says, "You know, because of my fame, a lot of people come to me, and they've got this business idea and that business idea." And I'm thinking, "Okay, so the answer is no. Will this guy just hurry up and say no." But to my surprise, he doesn't say no, he says, "If this is such a good idea that I want to be part of this, I don't just want to be an investor. I don't just want to put my name on this. I want to be part of this." He literally meant something like chief of marketing. He wanted to be that involved. And I called my mom. I said, "Mom, you're never going to believe this. Robert Shapiro is joining LegalZoom." And she said, "My dentist?"Fabian Geyrhalter:That is hilarious.Eddie Hartman:Yeah. So [inaudible 00:21:18], people think about he's celebrity, celebrity, celebrity. And that's true, it was very helpful. But I think what was even more helpful was that we had this incredibly knowledgeable lawyer with great business skills, who was part of our team.Fabian Geyrhalter:That is a fantastic story. Thank you for sharing this. Absolutely, that's great. You're in the legal business, and in the business of trademarks. Well, not you, but LegalZoom. And this being a branding podcast, I have to ask this question.Eddie Hartman:Sure.Fabian Geyrhalter:LegalZoom, launched officially in 2001. So 10 years prior to Zoom. Does Zoom own their name to you to a certain degree? I know there was this time where that idea of Zoom was kind of an internet thing, but is it bizarre for you that 2020... Like all this time later, turned into a year where the word "Zoom" became the thing? And LegalZoom owned it first?Eddie Hartman:You know, it's such a funny question. So just a small question. The incorporation was created in 99.Fabian Geyrhalter:Yeah.Eddie Hartman:And we did a soft launch. We made our first sale in the last quarter of 2000. But yes, of course, our big launch to the public, 2001, very true. And for 10 years, if you said Zoom, you probably meant LegalZoom. A competitor of ours, to tweak us, had signs put up around his office that said, "We believe in legal grooming, not legal zooming." The word, Zoom, is a funny word. And for a long time, it was ours. And now, yes, you may have heard of this small company called Zoom. I do remember meeting them at a conference. Because lawyers were one of the early adopters of Zoom. And I walked up and I said... Hopefully they found it funny. I said, "I won't sue you." That they're Zoom, and we're LegalZoom.             But yeah, a friend recently posted to an entrepreneurial group that I'm part of, "Hey, can anyone connect me with Zoom?" And I was about to write back, "Sure," and then I realized [inaudible 00:23:41] blocked me.Fabian Geyrhalter:Yeah, I just thought it was interesting right? Because here, we're Zooming around all day, and I've been using Zoom for all the time. Listen, at some point, LegalZoom... And I just really realized this, prepping for our chat here. At some point, LegalZoom moved past business customers and started offering services really to anyone. So from wills and trusts to divorces, how does a brand known for entrepreneurship and business move its perception to become a bit more of a generalist? Or was a shift in brand story and marketing not even necessarily since he already had this huge amount of business customers who were just happy to start using your other services, hence spreading the word organically without even diluting your brand?Eddie Hartman:What a great question!Fabian Geyrhalter:It was a long one.Eddie Hartman:So the first product set that we launched was incorporations, LLCs, last will and testament, copyright... I want to say copyright and trademark were part of the first trough, but I'm actually not a 100% sure. We also considered restraining orders, but we understood after a while that that was a business that was better occupied by municipal and state authorities. We also had divorce early on, although we found that divorce is quite a difficult product to fulfill. However, that was the initial product set. So we-Fabian Geyrhalter:Interesting.Eddie Hartman:Yeah, we always had wills in there. Oh, you know, and trusts were in there as well, in the early... Oh, and living will. That's right, living will was there as part of the early batch. So for people who don't know, there's a medical power of attorney, living will, which is a document that, as the name implies, covers you when you're alive, but maybe incapacitated, versus a last will, which in the UK they will just refer to as a will and testament, which happens to cover you after you die. So two different documents. But I say this to say we found that there was so little crossover between product categories. A person who came to know us for an incorporation, would not have any inclination to use us for a will. A person who came to us for a will would not have a natural inclination to use us for a trademark, which is interesting if you got it.Fabian Geyrhalter:How interesting. Yeah. Eddie Hartman:We once did a program where we gave people $50, or later an opportunity to enter into a drawing to potentially go to a week long vacation to Hawaii, if they would refer us to a friend or family member. And we got very little uptake. And when I called around to some of these people to say, "Hey, you obviously love LegalZoom. You gave it incredibly high marks all around, but then you didn't refer us to anyone. Why is that?" I would get responses like this, "I don't know anyone else who is going through a divorce." "I don't know anyone else who's getting a trademark." And when you ask them, "Well, did you know that LegalZoom does all these other things?" They would respond, "Well, no, I really didn't." And so we will promote in the email itself, we would say, "Popular services from Legal Zoom." We created the idea of like, what are the top 10 services from LegalZoom? What are the most popular uses of LegalZoom? What are people using LegalZoom for?             And we would say, "Oh, you know..." Obviously, these were factual, but we would say, "Oh, number one is, setting up LLCs. And number two is..." let's say, "Registering a trademark." "And number three is filing for an uncontested divorce." Now, if people decided, upon seeing that list, "Hey, you know what? I have been thinking, I ought to divorce my wife. Now that I see [crosstalk 00:27:43] LegalZoom, let me go ahead and do it."Fabian Geyrhalter:What an impulse buy!Eddie Hartman:What an impulse buy, right? "Hey, I should get a patent." Hopefully, that didn't really motivate behavior, and yet it was a blockbuster move in terms of generating sales. So if you'd stopped to think about it, and said, "Why would you ever show people what the top products are?" If a person is going to get divorced, they're going to get divorced, if a person is going to declare bankruptcy or start a business or something. That's a big decision, they've already made it." Never underestimate the impact of assurance. The impact of, "Many people are also doing this." The impact of safety and numbers. And I think that leads you right to the brand question, because after all, what is brand? Brand is a promise. Brand is a question of reliability. A brand is almost always a promise about the future. In an unknown future, when you don't know what's coming next, the brand matters more.            If you're going to pop a pharmaceutical into your mouth, if you are going to take a pill, if you are going to sign up with an insurance company, if you are going to have someone do a legal service for you, you have no idea what the future reliability is going to be, and so the brand has to stand in. I mean, ask yourself, would you ever put a drug in your body from a source you've never heard of? Of course not. Certainly you wouldn't give it to your children. Why? Because brand matters so much. It's the future promise of something that you cannot guarantee today.Fabian Geyrhalter:Very, very well said. You and I both are mentors at The Founder Institute. Or you have been, and you're on and off. I found out because I read your bio and your Global 40 Mentor. And I'm a Global 100 Mentor, so I thought I was special until I met you. Now, I'm not anymore. Thank you for that. But when you talk to entrepreneurs about branding, what do you tell a startup? Like how important do you... So you're a partner at Simon-Kucher, which is a strategy and marketing consultancy. You have started and operated multiple companies with a total valuation in excess of, I don't know, $3 billion. Right? So you have seen it all when it comes to brands, but how do you advise startup founders and entrepreneurs? Like what do you tell them about the importance of branding to them at that point in time?Eddie Hartman:Well, for the more hard-nosed listener, I would point out that brand has a tangible value. Whether you're thinking about valuation, there's a concept goodwill, which is essentially brand equity, so it attributes to your enterprise value. Another way to look at it though, is we've run tests on buying the very same batch of Google keywords for a generic website that has a name, of course, and has a design scheme and everything. But with the brand no one's ever heard of, versus the LegalZoom brand... And I can tell you that the LegalZoom brand is much more effective in converting and generating revenue. So brand is very powerful and quantifiable, in terms of the impact that it gives you. You really need to take it quite seriously. But then, the next question is, what should your brand state? As I say, brand is a... I saw a great definition of brand when I was in business school at Wharton.             It said that, "Brand motivates irrational behavior." In other words, if a promise motivates rational behavior, then that's not brand. If I tell you that, "Well, this vehicle gets a certain number of miles per gallon, and that's why you should buy it." Or if I say, "This copper has a certain purity per kilo of weight." Those are statements, but they're not brand statements. That's literally a value statement that's merely attributable to an attribute of what's being sold. If I tell you on the other hand that, "Kids love Oreos." Okay, that's a promise that you can't tie to something rational. It's not a rational criteria. It's appealing to an irrational side. I mean, why do we love Oreos and hate Hydrox? Hydrox was first. You know that? Oreo was a copy of a Hydrox. I mean, okay, please don't sue me in saying so.             But certainly, if you look at them side by side in a store, you might be tempted to conclude, and I certainly would, that an Oreo is a copy of a Hydrox. But Oreo dominated the brand. They stand for something. They stand for comfort, they stand for snowy days with a glass of milk, and an Oreo cookie. And we all love them. But if you look at the list of ingredients, they're no different than a Hydrox.Fabian Geyrhalter:Interesting, yeah. They built the brand.Eddie Hartman:If you are buying from a rational basis, and the Hydrox were cheaper, you should surely reach for the Hydrox, but people don't. They read for the Oreo. And companies, not just in consumer, but in business-to-business, also understand that brand promise really means something. I think it's probably a bit more rational in a business context. There's the old saying, "No one ever got fired for going with IBM." [crosstalk 00:33:39]Fabian Geyrhalter:That changed.Eddie Hartman:Okay, this has changed. But what are we saying when we make statements like that? What we're saying is that the brand adds something to the value equation of a current purchase, because it makes a promise about the future, "This will be reliable. We are a organization that stands behind the offer that we're making." Brand should convey a penumbra, a halo effect, beyond the the specific product that you sell. It should augment and extend beyond. Selecting the words to use for brand, then becomes very important. And honestly, here's where you can use some fairly standard methodology. You can ask your customers or prospects, say Listen, "I want you to tell me of eight..." You come up with somewhere between eight and 12 attributes, and you say, "Listen, I want you to tell me of these eight to 12 attributes, which are the ones that are the most important to you? Rate them." And then say, "Okay, same set of attributes, how do we rate versus competitors?"            And then plot this on a grid and you'll see a pattern emerge. And the pattern will tell you, this is where your brand can reach and this is where your brand cannot reach. Where you are strong and the attribute matters, that's where your brand thrives. Where the attribute matters and you're not strong, those are areas that you have to avoid. And if you can find in that map a story, then that can be the through-line for your brand. Listen, LegalZoom is never going to be able to say something like, "We have lawyers that will grind themselves to the bone working around the clock, and our brand name is feared in courtrooms across America the way that a major law firm could." But what LegalZoom can say is, "Simplicity, ease of use, convenience." Right?Fabian Geyrhalter:You're going right into one of my final questions on every one of my shows. So now that we talk about brand boards, and what you just explained is really fantastic for anyone, not just entrepreneurs, right? I mean, even someone who's a CMO, to revisit their brand that it's basically a brand SWOT analysis, right? Like using emotions versus rational thinking. If you could take the LegalZoom brand, and I gave you no warning of this question so... Let's just see where this takes us. If you would take the LegalZoom brand, and you would put it through a funnel. And at the end, there's really one word or two words that you feel like your brand really captures and can own. When you think about Zappos, it's not D2C shoe sales, right? And it's not e-comm. It's customer service. It's delivering, "Wow." That's what they are about.             if you think about Everlane, its transparency. And I always love to, when I work with clients, at the end of my workshops, I like to say, "Everything we've just done for the last, God knows, four or eight hours, can we distill it into one word that everyone in the company can say, "This is what we stand for." I just assume that accessibility must be very near the top of the list for LegalZoom. But what comes to mind? Like that one word that you feel like LegalZoom could actually own?Eddie Hartman:What a fantastic question. And you'll also please permit me if I'd like to make a small detour after I've answered to sort of show you the power of this very question, frankly, in many walks of life. But with LegalZoom specifically, I think the phrase that really captured us was one that my dear friend and partner, Brian Liu... So you said it was three of us. It was me, Brian Lou and Brian Lee, came up with, which was, "Hassle-free." And studies have shown that was the issue that was stopping so many people from accessing the benefits for law was... It wasn't hassle-free. Yes, it was expensive. But it also seems so complex, so daunting, and Brian would say, "Hassle-free. Ah, yeah, that's what people want." They want a hassle-free legal experience. Absolutely. I will say though, we've gone through many phases, we said that LegalZoom's mission is to democratize the law. I believe in that. I really do.            But I think that may be a little too highfalutin for many people. It's reaching a bit too academic, I think. It's great when I am talking to my friends who are in sort of a academic setting about what's the importance of LegalZoom. We want to democratize the law? Sure. But I think for most people, the personal benefit was once hassle-free. But I'll tell you what I hope it becomes; empowerment. Hey, if you're in the sound of my voice, or if you live in America, anyway, or the UK, you are supposed to have the benefits of the law as part of your right to exist. And you don't have them. You don't. A wealthy person has a lawyer that they can turn to... She can turn to her lawyer, her lawyer will do onerous work on her behalf, or potentially a law firm will do onerous work. That's a tremendous amount of power that you don't have, but you ought to. You ought to have equal benefits under the law, and you don't.             Hopefully, what LegalZoom stands for in the future is empowerment. Connecting you back to the benefits that you have been, I would say, unfairly denied access to.Fabian Geyrhalter:Absolutely. I mean, there's so many Gen Z and millennial born-brands that are all about democratizing this, democratizing that. And there's like every [crosstalk 00:39:59]Eddie Hartman:[crosstalk 00:39:59] was democratizing juice.Fabian Geyrhalter:Exactly.Eddie Hartman:We don't need that.Fabian Geyrhalter:But coming from you, after these 20 years of having LegalZoom out in the wild, the word empowerment... And I'm sure my listeners can agree with that, the way that you said it and in the context of LegalZoom, how much more... Well, pun intended, how much more powerful that actually is to own for an organization like yours, than for an organization like many others that just want to empower the customers. But that being said, it is also wonderful, how many brands say that that's what they stand for. Because it shows the idea of customer first, and it shows the idea of, "We're with you." Right? And there is kind of this nice shift in brands and in brand thinking over the last 10, 15 years, which I really... I mean, that provides me so much joy that everything is becoming more purposeful. Right?Eddie Hartman:Absolutely. I had a client recently in the cybersecurity space, and I did this exact study, and I did the exact graphing technique that I just said hopefully your listeners will do themselves. And I said, "Well, the one thing that people don't care about is security." And he said, "You have really messed this up Mr. Hartman. We're talking about cybersecurity firm." Well, when we show them the comments though, it became immediately clear that people assume a cybersecurity company is secure. That's not what you're buying on.Fabian Geyrhalter:It's in the name. Exactly.Eddie Hartman:[crosstalk 00:41:38]. You're buying on the other attributes. Things like ease of use, simplicity. So for LegalZoom, you can imagine that people might say, "Oh, the brand should be that, 'What do you provide quality legal?' Quality legal." People assume that we have quality legal. If you listen closely to your customers, what are they really asking for? And that should be the underpinning of your brand. In LegalZoom's case, it was hassle-free. In the future? Hopefully, yes. It gives me the power I always should have had, but was wrongfully blocked from my grasp. That's what LegalZoom ought to be in the future, if you ask me.

“That was really when it started for me, when I came out of the lab having done some exploration of Jon’s (Jon Kabat-Zinn) work and done some meditation. At that point if you can believe it, it was cassette tapes that Jon had been kind enough to give me. I came out of the lab a completely different person. I was actually having fun being a surgical resident. I was tired, you know I can’t say I didn’t have a bad day but I laughed with my colleagues. I had a great time. And I will share with you, Jill, that many many people, including my superiors and my residency director, noticed a huge change.” Antonia Stephen MD, Surgeon, Massachusetts General Hospital   In the last episode in this week’s series on meditation and mindfulness, Jill sits down with Dr Antonia Stephen to discuss how meditation and mindfulness can change your life. Dr. Stephen shares her story with us and I challenge you not to be inspired. Let us know if you adopt a meditation and mindfulness practice of your own and let us know how it goes. We love to hear from you!    Dr. Stephen is a surgeon and Surgical Director of Wellness at Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital.    Dr. Antonia Stephen received her medical degree from Harvard Medical School, completed her general surgery residency at Massachusetts General Hospital, and her surgical fellowship at the Cleveland Clinic, before joining the surgical staff at Massachusetts General Hospital in the Division of Surgical Oncology, where she specializes in surgery of the thyroid, parathyroid and adrenal glands.   Books related to this episode:   "Meditation Is Not What You think: Mindfulness and Why It Is So Important" by Jon Kabat-Zinn  "Falling Awake: How to Practice Mindfulness in Everyday Life" by Jon Kabat-Zinn   Excerpts from the show:   “Why did you come to be interested in meditation and mindfulness as it relates to your work and life? Start back at the beginning. When did you first become interested in this?” -Jill Farmer   “Like many things, I had exposure to the concept of meditation and mindfulness really as a kid. I grew up next door to Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn who really is one of the modern fathers of mindfulness and who was instrumental in bringing mindfulness and meditation practices to western culture... I kind of knew it was there, I sort of knew what he did but not really. But I was aware of it and ...I would say that the moment that really grabbed me for the first time was when I was a teenager, and I happened to be a rower. I rowed in college. I was outside our house one day and Jon was leaving for the airport and I asked him where he was going and he said, ‘Well I’m going to work with the men’s U.S Olympic rowing team.’ Of course, that was fascinating to me because I had to assume that if the men’s Olympic rowing team was hiring Jon, paying him and flying him, I think at the time he was going out to California, that Jon was going to make them go faster and perform better. You know, make them win. That’s usually why Olympic rowing teams hire people, so that was interesting to me.”-Antonia Stephen MD   “For those of us who aren’t familiar as much with his work, can you give us just a little bit of a thumbnail about who he is and what he does?” -Jill Farmer    “Absolutely. He actually is a PhD. I think he was a graduate student or was working on his PhD at MIT and heard some lectures on mindfulness and meditation and was really fascinated with this. And what Jon did is look at this technique and he was interested in it and he started working initially with patients at UMASS Medical Center. Patients with medical issues such as hypertension and some mental health issues like anxiety and depression. He founded something called the MBSR clinic which was really the first of that kind in the United States, which is mindfulness-based stress reduction. He demonstrated that with these classes and with this center, which I recently read was actually started in a basement at UMASS, that these patients had improvements and were able to stop medications. He had subjective improvement and objective improvement. And as you mentioned, he actually published, studied and wrote about this and that was really one of the hooks that got western culture into his techniques.” -Antonia Stephen MD   “I think we spend very little time in that process examining why we’re doing things. What do we love about the idea of being a surgeon or a doctor? What do we love about the idea of going to medical school? If anybody had ever asked me those questions, I would have had absolutely no idea how to answer them. I think it was really my first few years of residency where they needed to be answered. If I’m going to be sleep deprived, if I’m going to work this hard, if I’m going to get up in the middle of the night, what’s my purpose? What’s my passion? I don’t think that I had ever had an opportunity to explore that. I think that can come naturally to some people depending on who they are in terms of their personality, in terms of what environment they’re in and who they spend time with and explore these things with. But for many, if not most of us, it’s all about the measuring stick getting to the next thing and I think that I found myself in a place where I really needed to examine that. So I tried some therapy, which I think is great, but as a surgical resident with the time commitment, the days and hours that therapists work and the expense was just not really feasible in terms of any sort of long-term plan. So I thought I would check out Jon’s book  and I picked up the book and started reading and that was really when it started for me.” -Antonia Stephen MD   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here!   To learn more about DocWorking, visit DocWorking.com   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

Danny got a new dog and has to train and discipline the dog. Is this a form of how God treats us? Possibly. Is Danny’s dog coping with being an animal that has to obey commands now? Most likely. Is Danny tired by disciplining a dog at all hours of the morning? Absolutely. Discipline from God’s perspective is not something meant to keep us down, strip us of our divinity or condemn us. It comes from the same place as a Father who loves his children disciplines them out of love. For the Christian, we must willingly accept the love of God that comes in the form of discipline. Furthermore, this differs from condemnation which tells us we are worthless whereas discipline simply seeks to make us more like our Heavenly Father. “Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.” (Hebrews 12:3-11, ESV)We want to hear from you! How has God’s discipline been advantageous to you and how has it shaped you? Ask us questions or just say hi! If you want to reach out to Nobody Special, go to Nobody Special and fill out a form at the bottom of the page. Also be sure and check us out on Facebook, Instagram, and our Youtube Channel. We want to hear from you so feel free to leave us a message!The Gospel Outpost Presents Nobody Special See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Do you really need another lead generation tool? Absolutely, yes. Especially when it provides as much data as Prycd. Max and Ryan are providing not only sold and active comps, but filtering tools that let you niche down in a dozen different ways. With over 2.3 million comps in their database, Prycd has the potential to massively simplify your land investing business.Check this episode out on YouTube where Max and Ryan walk me through some of the filters that I didn’t even know about. Their website can provide:—Property owner information—Information pricing analysis—Overview on all the composite data table—All the comp mapsYou can download records for your business, and Prycd will give you both the raw data and a cleaned-up file that’s easier for you to understand and use. Plus it’ll identify duplicate data so that when you send the info onto your mailing house, you’re not sending 20 postcards to a landlord that owns 20 different parcels of land.Their pricing is incredibly affordable, and you get so much more information. Really, my mind was blown, and I guarantee yours will be too. It’s such a great deal that I’ve already canceled my other memberships and signed up for a year’s membership with Prycd.If you sign up on their site right now, they’re offering 200 free records. They are constantly adapting, updating, and improving on their model, and they’re very responsive to suggestions. Check them out and happy land flipping!What's Inside:—How I’m using Prycd to find comps and properties.—Unlike Data Tree, they’re able to connect owner information to the vacant land.—Max and Ryan have really built a system that can give hyper-focused data so you have less blind spots when you’re finding properties, sending offers, and comparing comps.—Prycd can help you price out at the city level, county level, or the geo level.

Have you ever taken a second to think about “what helps make me happy daily?” Whether it’s a podcast you listen to, a group workout class you take a few times during the week or a book you read before falling asleep, what daily habits brings a smile to your face? Do you make sure to do these certain tasks daily for your well-being or do they just happen randomly & only sometimes? It didn’t just appear overnight BUT there are 6 daily habits I do every-single-day that help my overall well-being. Are there days I don’t want to do them? Yes, but do I feel a difference when I create the motivation within and show up to do them? Absolutely! Today I want to dive into how these habits have helped my well-being and how they all have become crucial for my health & happiness.   Topics : (1) Morning Motto  : Saying “Focus On The 24hrs Ahead” out loud grounds me in the present moment & helps me stay focused on the day ahead. (2) Physical Fitness : I’m addicted to Endorphins because I have seen the positive effects it has on my mind, body & soul (3) Meditation : Instead of reacting to situations I am able to respond appropriately because I am in control of my emotions. (4) Gratitude Journaling : It’s very easy to lose sight of all the good & this habit puts everything into perspective & sets good intentions for the day ahead. (5) Intellectual Stimulation : There’s always room to grow and I push to learn something new daily. (6)Dieting : Feeding myself the right foods gives my body the fuel to operate at it’s highest level.   Challenge for the listeners : Spend 10 minutes today and reflect on which daily habits make YOU feel your best and ask yourself : Am I prioritizing these habits or do they just show up whenever I feel like I can squeeze them in? Find ways to incorporate them into your daily schedule and DO NOT make excuses to not do them!   Questions from The BMC Jay : “Do you notice a huge difference working out in the morning with how you feel daily?” Heather : Is it bad to sleep in sometimes?   Pod Reviews Of The Week Tuck-Nasty   Got a topic / question you want me to cover? Hit me UP on IG @Bobbbaaaay Sign up for my new Weekly Bearded Wisdom Newsletter! You wanna help blow this podcast up? GREAT! Here’s how: Leave a 5 star review on the podcast app with your hot take of the show Share out the episode on your IG story tagging me @Bobbbaaaay —- Follow The Bearded Man! Instagram : @Bobbbaaaay YouTube : @BobbyHobert Twitter : @Bobbbaaaay Website : ItsTheBeardedMan.com

You may or may not know that my jam is helping people live a life of no regrets. Literally, it’s the first thing you see on my website. It says, “live a life of no regrets” because I’ve learned that it’s one of the things I do NOT want to feel after I’ve lived my life.  And people will often say, “How can you...even say that’s possible?” Do you really believe we can not have regrets?  Hell yes.  Let’s look at the definition of regret: Regret from the perspective of psychology is a negative cognitive or emotional state that involves blaming ourselves for a bad outcome, feeling a sense of loss or sorrow at what might have been, or wishing we could undo a previous choice that we made.   In the context of our mind and its role in our daily experience of life, regret is a feeling caused by our thoughts, just like other feelings  And most of the time, regret is more deeply felt when it has to do with our OWN behavior.  When it comes to relationships, studies on gender differences in regret show that 44% of women surveyed in one study had romantic regrets, versus just 19% of men.  Studies have also found that regret is much more commonly experienced by young people in individualist cultures. People in more collectivist cultures, which deemphasize individual choice, have less of a basis for blaming themselves for negative outcomes.  Last week I talked about how emotions are information, and regret is no exception.  Regret was rated #1 in a list of negative emotions in fulfilling five functions: making sense of the worldavoiding future negative behaviorsgaining insightachieving social harmonyimproving ability to approach desired opportunities (presumably because we regret past passivity)As you can see, it can be super helpful! So why is this experience of regret so painful? Why do we feel it so strongly? Basically, our brains can't really tell the difference between a well-imagined past, present and future. They all feel equally real in the moment we are thinking about them because they ARE happening to us in our minds when we think about it. Regret can also stem from what we call counterfactual thinking. In other words, the easier it is to visualize a different outcome, the more likely we are to regret the lost opportunity. We think we would feel better now if it went down differently, and we imagine “what could have been.” The main reason regret is painful because we have thoughts that create an entire storyline that it should not have gone down the way it did. And it includes all the dramatic cast of characters like it would have been different if we didn't screw up, and that we’d be so much happier now if we have showed up in a different way. And we replay this story over and over and eventually we see this story – our version of what happened - as the truth.  And this leads us to thinking that the past should have been different that it was. We want to try to change the past, which, last I checked, isn’t possible without a time machine. Look: If we want to move past regret, we need to create NEW thoughts about the past When we can have different thoughts TODAY about what happened in the past, we will feel better TODAY. The past does not have to change at all.   Let’s talk a bit about the most common “thought errors” that lead to regret:  1) The first is that we take too much responsibility for the result that occurred after our actions. We think it is “all our fault,” when in reality, many factors came into play for that results to happen. 2) The second is that we let our actions or inactions define who we are as a person. We judge ourselves. We think we ARE our actions. And we think if we had acted differently, we would feel better about ourselves.  The underlying theme here is that we are thinking we’d be happier if the result was different, but that’s not true. It isn’t our circumstances that create how we feel about ourselves. It’s how we perceive them. The thoughts we have about them.  The story we tell about what went down.  The good news is, we can intentionally reshape our brains through our thoughts and experiences. So, we can also turn regret around.  We need to change the story we tell about our past. When we assign new meaning to it, it changes our emotional response to it, and therefore creates different results in our lives.  From an evolutionary perspective, those memories are there to keep us “safe.” To remind us of what to watch for or avoid the danger we experienced. But that mechanism works better for things like saber-toothed tigers. Not for a bad breakup.  They don’t really keep us safe. The only true safety is in ourselves - knowing we have our own back, that we will do what it takes to ensure we are nurturing our highest selves.  If we look at the thought errors I went over earlier, I think the antidotes to both are best described as surrender and moving from judgment to curiosity with self-compassion.  It’s so important to remember that we are not our thoughts and we are not our actions. And you were doing the BEST you could with the resources you had at the time.  And the tradeoff - or the gem - is that we get to do the work to help us grow and learn.  So, is it possible to live with no regrets? Absolutely. And when we live with no regrets, we gain the wisdom from what we learned and then move ON.  Here’s a summary of how you can let go of regret: // Ask your brain more helpful questions like (I’ll share those in the pod). // Surrender and let go of the idea that you control things you have no control over. // Practice self-compassion, moving from judgment to curiosity // When you didn't like how you showed up, use the insightful aspects of regret, and commit to doing the work so that your actions align with your values.Ultimately, this is about cultivating ziji, that Tibetan word I love that means radiant inner confidence.  _ Topics in this week’s podcast: // What is regret, and why is it so painful? // Two common “thought errors” that lead to regret and keep us stuck // How to ask the right questions about our past mistakes // How to change our thoughts to stop regret in its tracks // 4 things you can do to let go of your regret  Resources// Episode 46 Letting Emotions Be Your Guide// Episode 39 where I talk about visualization and a 4-step exercise to help you prep for any important event// If you’re new to the squad, grab the starter kit I created at RebelBuddhist.com. It has all you need to start creating a life of more freedom, adventure, and purpose. You’ll get access to the private Facebook group where you can ask me questions! Once you join, there’s also a weekly FB live called Wake the F*ck Up Wednesday, where you can ask questions that come up as you do this work – in all parts of your life.// Don’t regret waiting to sign up for Freedom School, where I teach all this good stuff in a way that helps you apply everything you learn to real, messy life. Check out JoinFreedomSchool.com and learn more (and there are some sweet bonuses for you too!).  And FYI – the entire month of JUNE is dedicated to writing your new life story.

Premier League Fan Predictions once again this week and unbelievably, Shane Sexton (Man United) has won the five-in-a-row. Will he ever be defeated? Absolutely and we reckon Sam O'Connor (Arsenal) is the man to do it. The lads tackle the big issues in the Premier League including Timo Werner, Burnley Town (again), Unai Emery, Liverpool's form and - with three Arsenal fans on the podcast - we discuss whether Aubameyang is the new Mesut Ozil. Not one to miss. All 20 teams covered in just over an hour. Rules: Three points for a correct score. One point for a correct result. Winner will be joining us again next week. Subscribe to our YouTube channel so you never miss an episode! Social Media: Twitter: https://twitter.com/tacklingsport Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tacklingsport

Bible Reading: Psalm 139:7-12; Matthew 28:20Gabriela's heart pounded as she looked down at her brother. He looked very small from her perch among the treetops. "You can do it!" he called up to her."Easy for you to say, Adrin. You're not standing on a log thirty feet in the air!" It was her first time on the high ropes course at her church retreat, and she was supposed to walk across the log like a balance beam.Gabriela looked at her father below. "Are you sure the rope will catch me if I fall?" "Absolutely," Dad said.Gabriela tugged one more time on the safety rope attached to the body harness she wore. She tensed, getting ready to take that first step. You can do it, she told herself. If you fall, the rope will catch you. Just walk out there. She took a deep breath and inched out onto the log. First one tiny step. Then another. And another. Soon she was all the way across."Great job!" Dad called. "Now I'll lower you to the ground.""You're sure the rope will hold me?" Gabriela asked."Yes. Trust me!" Dad called back. "Just lean out a little, and you'll feel it start to pick you up." Gabriela did as directed and gasped with relief when she felt her harness tighten around her waist. She let her feet leave the platform and slowly descended to the ground."Was that fun?" Adrin asked as Dad unclipped the rope from Gabriela's harness."Yeah! I was so scared up there though. I knew the rope was attached to me, but I couldn't feel it. I felt a lot safer after I was off the log and the rope caught me.""You know," Dad said, "the rope wasn't holding you only when you felt it. It was holding you the entire time." He smiled. "That makes me think of Jesus.""You mean, because sometimes when life is tough, it feels like He's not even there?" Gabriela asked. Dad nodded. "But whether it feels like it or not, Jesus is with us all the time, holding us up and taking care of us. He saved us, and He won't ever let go of us." "So will you go up and walk the log again?" Adrin asked.Gabriela smiled. "Yeah. I'll do it again." (Sarah E. Avallone)How About You?Are there times in your life when you don't feel like God is with you? When tough things happen or it seems like God isn't answering your prayers, do you start to wonder if He even cares? If you know Jesus as your Savior, He will never, ever leave you. He gave His word that He will always be with you. So instead of relying on your feelings, trust Him. Even if it doesn't feel like He's there, He is still taking care of you.Today's Key Verse:Do not be afraid...the Lord your God is with you wherever you go. (NKJV) (Joshua 1:9)Today's Key Thought:Jesus is always with you

I was on WGAN this morning with Matt Gagnon. He jumped right in with a question about the problems with the internet and why are there so many outages.  Will they continue?  What can be done? Then we talked about the Facebook hack and release of the personal information of 533 Million users and we wrapped up with a discussion about how long it will be until we have fully autonomous vehicles. Here we go with Matt. And more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com. --- Automated Machine Generated Transcript: Craig Peterson: Good morning, everybody. I was on with Mr. Matt Gagnon this morning and he is in Maine, as you probably know.  I'm carried there through there are stations in Maine and parts of eastern New Hampshire and Southern Maine. Because of an outage, they had on the internet that hit parts of New Hampshire, as well as Maine he asked me about the internet backbone and much of it was kind of surprising to him. Frankly, I don't think it's really good news.  [00:00:31]We also talked a bit about what's happening with autonomous vehicles. Why aren't they just everywhere already?  When are we going to consider them safe? So here we go with Mr. Matt.  [00:00:44] Matt Gagnon: So Craig, let's get to your topics and what we need to talk about with you here this morning, sir.  Okay. So we had a huge power outage recently. We had a huge internet outage recently. Are we worried about this? Like in the future is this a sign of things to come? What caused it? I mean, what's going on here? [00:01:00] Craig Peterson: Yeah. There's well, there's a couple of different reports. One talks about breaks in two different fibers. There's a power problem. Here's, what's really going on behind the scenes. The major internet providers have multiple connections to the internet. Let's explain what the internet is to help really understand it.  [00:01:19] The internet is an interconnected network of networks. There is no internet. It doesn't exist as you don't pay your bill to the internet.  [00:01:32] Matt Gagnon: A United States Senator once called it a series of tubes as you recall. Right.  [00:01:40]Craig Peterson:  What happens is all of these different providers that we get it from, like spectrum, for instance, that had the outage. They all get internet connections to other providers. The idea is that the internet can have thousands of networks that are almost, you might call them backbones, but none of them really are right now. [00:02:02] Most of the data on the internet is actually being routed through Amazon who is running these big data centers. Spectrum will have a connection to a network provider over here and another provider over there. There are some major central hubs, if you will, of this internet connectivity.  If you lose one piece of fiber and you are connected to the internet at different points using the other pieces of fiber, you're still okay. [00:02:33]If you only have two fiber connections to the internet itself, then you lose both of them. You are off the air. Whether it's because of a break or because of a power failure, it doesn't really matter.  If you're going to be really reliable as an internet provider, you have to remember that upstream from you they could go down. [00:02:54] To now the big problem we're seeing now, nowadays. The internet was designed to withstand a nuclear explosion anywhere in the United States. We could lose the entire city of New York and the internet would still run. That's because again, all of these small networks together.  [00:03:13] However, as time has gone on, we've seen happen to the internet that's happened in many other industries, there's been consolidation.  [00:03:20] I mentioned Amazon handles much of the traffic for the internet, and frankly, Netflix is about half of the internet traffic on any given day. We now have, instead of thousands of these networks connected together, in reality, just a handful.  [00:03:37] There's only really about a dozen that you might call backbones that almost everybody connects to. If you lose one of those, we're in big trouble. So, to answer your question, yes, this is something we can continue to expect more and more of.  [00:03:53]One of the more troubling things is just within the last year a minor player in the internet backbone business. A small business bought one of the biggest companies out there and they just haven't been taking care of the internet. They were trying to keep the price low. They have people working for them. Some of them are brilliant. We've got a lot of them. This is brand new to them.  They have brought the internet down a number of times over the last even six months. This is growing pains. I think it's going to get a little bit worse and I'm not sure it's going to get that much better. [00:04:31] Matt Gagnon: Well, that's a happy thought. Thanks a lot, Craig. Appreciate it.  [00:04:33] Craig Peterson, our tech guru. You hear him not only here at this time, every Wednesday, but also on the same radio station you're listening to right now on Saturdays at one o'clock WGAN of course. Check out that for some more in-depth analysis and talk over many of these same topics. [00:04:47] Craig also, the Facebook hack. I have to ask you about here a little bit as well. Apparently, everybody now knows Mark Zuckerberg's phone number because of this. So tell me what happened and what's the fallout from it?  [00:04:58] Craig Peterson: Yeah, it's about 533 million Facebook users. Their data was stolen and it has been sold and reused. [00:05:08] Now this type of data is data that is used for phishing, which is trying to fool us.  They got all kinds of information about all these half a billion Facebook users. They had Zuck's name, his location, his marriage information, date of birth, Facebook user ID, his phone number.  [00:05:28] But they had it on half, a billion, other people as well. [00:05:32] Absolutely crazy, what happened?  [00:05:35]The hackers have been selling this information to other bad guys if you will for about two years. They no longer have any, any buyers for this data, you know, half a billion people's personal information.  So they posted it openly on the internet for anyone to download, not just their network of friends that have been paying them. [00:06:00]You've just got to love the response that came from our friends over at Facebook when they were asked about it. This was the Daily Mail that asked by the way. The Facebook spokesman said, this is old data that was previously reported on in 2019. Okay, but don't you care that you've got half a billion people's personal information. [00:06:23] It's been resold, sold for quite a while, and just on Saturday, it was posted for free for anyone on the internet.  [00:06:33] So, it's okay. Obviously, the same old stuff, right? Make sure you change your password. Use two-factor authentication, get one password as a password manager, but what's really upsetting to me is the nonchalant attitude. [00:06:49] All of these things, businesses have, including the Equifax's of the world. Remember they didn't just steal your basic in personal information, Equifax, they stole everything. They show your income, your job history, they stole your social security number. According to reports out there, it was all of this information and more. No one is going to prison over this. There have been no charges, one or two people lost their jobs. That's the extent of it.  [00:07:19] We have to get these large companies to really honor our data, keep it private and respond in a reasonable way. Not, Oh, it's yesterday's news.  [00:07:35] Craig Peterson joins us at this time every Wednesday to go over what's happening in the world of technology really quickly. [00:07:40] Matt Gagnon: Craig, we only have a couple of minutes left maybe, but I wanted to ask you about self-driving cars. Does the question continue to remain about these things if they're ever going to be safe? I continue to believe that someday none of us are driving anything any more. Am I right?  [00:07:52] Craig Peterson: Yeah, you are absolutely correct. The Jetson's world might come our way. [00:07:56] There are now autonomous cabs, basically, uber's in some cases that will fly. So yeah, it'll eventually be there. The problem we're seeing is how do we evaluate them as you mentioned, are they safe? Well, how do you define safe? One of these autonomous cars is going to react differently in a situation, than a human driver. [00:08:19]That's the problem we've had. Most of the accidents that have happened with the autonomous vehicles that are already on the road have been rear renders. Not them rear-ending somebody, but somebody rear-ending them. We have as drivers, certain expectations as to how another driver's going to behave on the road and these cars do not behave the same way. [00:08:42] So its going to be a little while. If they were all autonomous now, that probably would go away. This is going, this problem, for a good 20 plus years, I think.  [00:08:51] Matt Gagnon: All right. Well, Craig Peterson, our tech guru. You can hear him here, not only every Wednesday but on Saturdays at one o'clock. [00:08:56] Thanks a lot, Craig. Appreciate it as always. . We'll talk to you again next week.  [00:08:59] Take care, Matt. Bye-bye.  [00:09:00] Hey, one last reminder. I have discount coupons for people who are signing up for my Improving Windows Privacy and Security course.  [00:09:10]If you haven't signed up yet, you don't have much time because this is closing on Friday night at midnight. [00:09:17] It is a phenomenal course. It is designed for basic users all the way through intermediate. Of course, as usual, I've got the whole guarantee thing going on. I think you're really going to like it.  [00:09:29]We're probably gonna do a couple of phone calls as well. Maybe a little webinar you can call in if you'd rather, but all of that is on my email. You know, if you don't sign up right now, you're not going to find out about it.  [00:09:41]When it goes onto my site, it is going to be full price. It's only now that you can get the coupon. So you might want to email me M E@craigpeterson.com. If you haven't signed up already, or if you want more details.  [00:09:54] I am more than glad to send them to just open your email and send it to me. M E@craigpeterson.com. I'd be glad to send you all the details you'd like.  [00:10:04]Of course this weekend I will be back as well.  [00:10:07] Take care everybody.  [00:10:10] Bye-bye. ---  More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

BE SURE TO SEE THE SHOWNOTES AND LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE HERE Eve Picker: [00:00:14] Hi there, thanks for joining me on Rethink Real Estate. I'm on a mission to make real estate work for everyone. Real estate can help to solve climate change, can house people affordably, can create beautiful streetscapes, unify neighborhoods and enliven cities. So I'm on a journey to find the most creative thinkers and doers out there. I'm not the only one who wants to rethink real estate. You can learn more about me at EvePicker.com or you can find me at SmallChange.co, a real estate crowdfunding platform with impact real estate investment opportunities open for investment right now. And if you want to support this podcast, join me at Patreon.com/rethinkrealestate, where there are special opportunities for my friends and followers.   Eve: [00:01:18] Today I'm talking with Scott Ehlert, co-founder of Fabric Workshop, a company focused on low carbon, mass timber building technologies for California's livable future. Scott is designing a proprietary hollow core mass timber plate column and wall system that uses 50 percent less wood fiber and will cost ten to 35 percent less overall than for a CLT structure. His system will also provide installation benefits like integrated MEP, acoustic and fire performance. And as if that is not enough, Scott is also designing a robotic fabrication facility to anchor a new wood product innovation campus in California to help in the state's wildfire efforts. Scott's background is an unlikely one for an entrepreneur in mass timber. He spent years in the production and logistics management of concerts, private and corporate events, and national experiential marketing campaigns before pivoting to system design strategies that leveraged research, data and design to meet high level business objectives. While consulting for some of the largest companies in the real estate and construction space, Scott recognized a massive need for desirable middle-income housing that wasn't being met by the market. So, he left his agency and started on the journey of what would become Fabric Workshop. This is a story of sheer stick-to-it-ness.   Eve: [00:03:04] If you'd like to join me in my quest to rethink real estate, there are two simple things you can do. Share this podcast or go to Patreon.com/rethinkrealestate to learn about special opportunities for my friends and followers and subscribe if you can.   Eve: [00:03:33] Hello Scott, I'm so pleased to have you on my show.   Scott Ehlert: [00:03:37] Thank you. Yeah, good to be here.   Eve: [00:03:39] So you've had a fascinating and pretty astounding career, from concert and event management to design and strategic consulting, to property technology. So, I wanted to start with what you're doing right now. What are you doing right now?   Scott: [00:03:57] Yeah, great question. Yeah. So we are, I've created a company called Fabric Workshop and we are pioneering a new next generation mass timber manufacturer. We manufacture in California and a fabrication, a digital and robotic fabrication facility to bring those next generation Messmer panels to life.   Eve: [00:04:20] So what does the next generation mass timber panel mean?   Scott: [00:04:26] Yeah, so, you know, we kind of started our journey looking at the cost of housing. And, you know, as you mentioned, I worked as a design strategy consultant for many years and I kind of had run my course in that in that career and was looking for something new and something for, you know, a bit more impactful. And really started looking at housing, which was the most kinda pressing thing in my life as I was starting a family and seeing how so many of my friends and peers in California were leaving the state because of the cost of housing or were in a constant state of financial and mental pressure due to housing. And I also consulted with quite a few really large companies, just by chance in my design consulting days, worked with some of the largest companies in the housing and real estate space in the United States and just saw this, you know, kind of looming existential crisis around housing affordability. And, you know, when the housing affordability comes up, we love to kind of cut out the perennial teachers and firefighters, as you know, our benchmarks for who can afford housing. But what we were seeing was that housing was really kind of impacting bankers and doctors. We were you were talking to doctors who were having to have roommates in the Bay Area because they couldn't afford the housing.   Eve: [00:05:54] Wow.   Scott: [00:05:54] And so there was this kind of big, big question of like, how do we make housing? How do we create housing in California that's affordable to middle income folks we traditionally call the middle-class. And so that started us down a really long journey and looking at just a year long process of just listening and asking questions and sitting in the back of rooms and talking with as many folks in the in the industry as possible. And it became really clear that how we build and the type of projects we build were really kind of fundamental to, this seems kind of obvious, the kind of fundamental to the cost of housing. And so, you know, we really started to look at how we can build things differently and what with the technologies available out there to help them offset these costs.   Eve: [00:06:53] So let's back up a bit. Like for some people listening, they may not know what mass timber is, which is kind of all the rage in the architecture building industry, but perhaps not something that most people know about.   Scott: [00:07:06] Yes, so mass timber is kind of the catchall phrase for what is a range of engineered wood products similar to glulam beams. The most prominent is cross-laminated timber or CLT. And that's, the that's the type that you'll see turning up most often. And what CLT is, is just that, it's cross-thatched, and kind of cross-threaded dimensional lumber, 2x6s and 2x4s, laid out in a giant press with glue. And then that press puts extreme pressure on those panels and that glue and turns it into essentially a giant butcher block. It turns it into a more or less a solid piece of wood. And those panels can be 12 feet tall and 12 inches wide and 40 feet long or larger, in some cases.   Eve: [00:08:00] Smaller, non-structural pieces of wood, glued together and engineered in such a way that they become much larger structural elements.   Scott: [00:08:09] Yes. And then they take on some really incredible structural properties. So, you know, they are stronger and lighter than steel. Stronger and lighter than concrete. You know, it's an incredible product. It has been widely adopted in Europe and into East Asia and Japan. And it's just starting to kind of trickle up in the United States. And as you said, it's kind of all the rage right now. Everybody's talking about CLT and there's a lot of hopes and prayers being put on CLT as the, you know, the silver bullet that's going to save us from our cost of housing.   Eve: [00:08:46] So it's cheaper than steel and other structural elements. Is that what you're saying?   Scott: [00:08:52] Um, no, that's kind of the problem, that's the that's the challenge with it, is that while it does have these incredible attributes, you know, speed of construction is one of them. You know, these are essentially printed building panels. You know, you can get an entire wall or, you know, five, half a dozen panels to make an entire floor plate of a large building. And so you're seeing buildings, you know, eight story buildings go up in two weeks. Right. It's all crammed in. It's all kind of flat packed like, an IKEA footer. Pre-cut, pre-manufactured, there's no saws on site, no hammers. You know, nobody's doing anything manual on site. They're just essentially cramming these giant plates into place and a small crew catching the plates and then screwing them into place with some really advanced metal connectors to hold this together.   Eve: [00:09:51] But the materials themselves are expensive...   Scott: [00:09:54] Right.   Eve: [00:09:55] But you're saving, you're saving time on the site. You're saving uncertainties like weather. Because they are factory built.   Scott: [00:10:03] Yes, exactly.   Eve: [00:10:05]  Insurance you're saving.   Scott: [00:10:09] Yeah. Insurance is still kind of a question mark. It's still very new in the US. So, the insurance has not quite caught up yet, but it is completely a completely safe product that has to go through a very rigorous testing process called PRG 320. And that is the fire certification process. And it's also been the new international building codes updates around mass timber and CLT. So they're able to build much larger buildings now. So, you know, 18 plus stories, large warehouse facilities, distribution centers, you know, these very large type two, type four type structures can now be built with mass timber.   Eve: [00:10:47] So, in balance then, if you can save all of these site costs, will it provide a less expensive solution? And especially for, you know, what you're focused on, which is what I understand, the missing middle housing, those smaller infill lots that maybe are not as efficient as a huge 800-unit building, but certainly helped to kind of just stitch cities together, right?   Scott: [00:11:17] Yeah, exactly. So, when we were looking at CLT, we want to have all of the benefits of CLT, but without the biggest drawback and the biggest drawback of CLT, or there's a couple of other variants like DLT, which is dowel laminated timber, which is they use wooden dowels to connect the boards together, or NLT, which is nail laminated timber, which is just that the boards are stuck together with nails. The biggest drawback with them is, with those technologies, is they just use a lot of wood. There's just no way around it. It's a giant butcher block and so, you know, and it uses dimensional lumber, the same lumber that stick frame builders use and modular builders use. You know, when you go to Home Depot and buy, you know, Doug fir for your deck, that's the same stuff that goes into CLT. And so, you know, it's a commodity product and they're using a lot of commodity product. It's susceptible to high prices and that there's just no way around that. And so, you know, I don't know how anybody that started a CLT project a year ago is going to make those projects pencil today. What, the cost of dimensional lumber up to, what, two hundred percent or something like that over year over year. Right?   Eve: [00:12:34] Why is it up so high?   Scott: [00:12:36] Yeah, so...   Eve: [00:12:37] I'm sorry. I'm completely new to this so I'm learning.   Scott: [00:12:40] Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is you know, we are we are incredibly focused on the forestry and supply side. You know, we are kind of a hybrid between a housing prefab re-manufacturer and a forestry company, in particular the wildfire side, so I can definitely share more on that. And so, yes, you know, the implications on the lumber costs are, have a big, big impact. And lumber prices were already going up, right, there was just limited supply. There's limited companies involved in the forestry space. And everybody's going out to the same suppliers, like, you know, in the US. Dimensional lumber on the West Coast comes primarily from British Columbia, Washington and Oregon. And Idaho and Montana to a lesser extent. But those are the three kind of major producing markets and everybody's buying it. Right. And even if you're on the East Coast, a lot of people want that, like the aesthetic and material qualities of West Coast feedstock. And it's primarily Doug fir. That's what everybody wants. And so there's just high demand, it's just a supply and demand, and then Covid came and just threw a giant wrench into all of that. The mills shut down, the logging shut down, and everybody thought the housing and construction industry would collapse with Covid. But just the opposite happened. There was a huge remodel boom, a huge push for new homes in the suburbs. People were trying to get more space. And so the macron effects of that are that an industry that was already under high demand pressures is now under extreme demand pressures. And then they took their capacity offline for a period of time with Covid. And now they're just trying to play catch up. And the industry in 2019 is already at record highs. And now we are just, it's just through the roof, you know, OSB board, plywood of all that down the stack is all impacted by this. And so, when prices are just really high so CLT or DLT, NLT that's just going to be less price competitive now than they were before.   Eve: [00:15:00] Interesting. So let's go back to what you're trying to solve and what your solution looks like. And then we can talk about how the last year has impacted that.   Scott: [00:15:11] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, that use of material is kind of fundamental to our approach. And, you know, we were really pursuing a CLT based product initially. But when we, when that reality of the the material cost, the fiber cost, just was the 100 pound gorilla in the room, there's no way around it. It's going to just do more research. Kind of went back to the table and some to look at those more mature markets in Europe and Japan and started to see this kind of, as I was saying, the next generation of mass timber products coming out where they've already kind of gone through that and recognize that, you know, a CFT panel is not necessarily the ideal product for a lot of building types, particularly smaller and faster buildings. And so what they're using now is what are kind of known as cassette systems. They, these are a panelized approach, just like CLT, but they're taking the fiber out. And so, what they're doing is, they'll be more or less there's like two kind of sandwich layers, a top and a bottom and then a structure on the inside of those two sandwich pieces that give it the structural integrity. So you get a box-like panel with a hollow core and that removes a substantial amount you know 50, 60 percent of the fiber, from those panels, driving the cost down while still maintaining the structural integrity of a full kind of solid wood panel.   Eve: [00:16:47] Like a hollow core door, but not as flimsy?   Scott: [00:16:53] Exactly. A hollow core door that you could build an eight-story building out of.   Eve: [00:16:58] Yeah, yeah.   Scott: [00:16:58] There's a membrane, a structure on the inside of that hollow core that gives it its strength. Ingenuity at play here. Companies are now taking advantage of that cavity to include things that would normally be exposed in a CLT building. So, CLT with the solid wood in place, all of your MEP systems, your electrical, your plumbing, your lighting, all of that can't run in the middle of the plate. It's solid wood. Right. And so it has to be hung underneath or run in interior walls or both in most cases. But with these hollow core cassette systems, you can actually run those MEP systems inside the cavity of the floor plate. So, it gives it a much cleaner and tight aesthetic.   Eve: [00:17:46] Yeah, yeah.   Scott: [00:17:48] And then you can also add additional elements to those cavities. So you can add acoustic materials, you can add insulating materials to increase the R value. You can add seismic and fire safety materials in there. And so you can actually get a much thinner for floor plate overall than CLT, where you have to then just have any piece stuff hanging beneath it. With CLT, a lot of that insulating and acoustic and dampening performance has to be laid on top. And it's generally a really thick concrete layer that's poured on top of the wood panel. So, a lot of people with CLT they think that you get to see all the wood, but in most cases you don't. Actually, on the floor plate it's kind of covered in five inches of concrete and gypsum and all that stuff. So, the cassette systems are a really genius kind of approach to a lot of those challenges with CLT.   Eve: [00:18:44] And it means less time on site, by the sounds of it.   Scott: [00:18:48] It does, yes. But the flip side of all of this is that it does add complexity and you do have to be in much deeper coordination with your trades very early in the process to coordinate where all of those runs are going through those plates so that the connection points on site are all, you know, when you when you're doing a small prefabricated, a lot of it's going to be automated. And so, the tolerances are down to the millimeter. So things have to be tight. There's no change orders, I guess. So there's no saws, there's no handsaws or circular saws on site to fix problems. Everything has to be really, really tight. So that really, kind of, front loads the design and the engineering process. And all of the trades have to be at the table very early. And so, it's a very different process than a standard site build construction. You know, that's the trade-off. Is that the process that has to adapt to the material.   Eve: [00:19:47] Just listening to you speak of it sounds to me like you might be enjoying that process.   Scott: [00:19:53] Yes, very much so. Yes. As somebody that that worked in design and system design and customer experience design, you know, all of that thinking is really, you know, and you can see the outcomes, right?   Eve: [00:20:07] Yes.   Scott: [00:20:08] You know, you can go and tour these sites in in Europe and parts of Australia, where they're being, you know the sophisticated approaches, is happening in Japan and particularly Central Europe, where this market is very mature. I mean, you're seeing build costs in major urban markets, you know, down to 140-150 dollars a square foot.   Eve: [00:20:29] Oh, that's extraordinary.   Scott: [00:20:31] Whereas in San Francisco, you're at, what, 750-850 a square foot for a poor-quality building.   Eve: [00:20:39] Yeah.   Scott: [00:20:39] That's what we're kind of chasing. Right. Like that's the that's the end goal is to build out the system that can drive towards those better pricing outcomes and make housing more affordable.   Eve: [00:20:50] Where are you in your process right now? You've been at this for how long?   Scott: [00:20:56] We're now officially into year three, so it's a long and winding road. As I mentioned, with our company, with Fabric Workshop, there's this really big wildfire and forestry component to it. So, we are focused very much on the California market. We're based in California. We by no means will turn clients away, that's in a neighboring state. But the challenge in California is so enormous that we feel like that so many other housing starts to take on like a national approach. And we feel that we just need to be very specific to California and the codes and the and the challenges and the crisis that that's at hand here and that it's a big enough opportunity that it can justify that. The new housing element numbers are coming in across the state. And, you know, we're going to need two million units of housing in the next, within the next 10 years. You know, it's just a staggering number of housing. And so that that volume actually presents a really powerful opportunity to impact another, maybe bigger crisis at hand in the state of California. And that's the wildfire situation here. And so, I don't know, I'm sure you've seen that on the news.   Eve: [00:22:21] Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm Australian, I don't know if you realize from my accent, so I've lived with it.   Scott: [00:22:27] Yes, that's right. Right. So, yeah, in California, you know, five of California's six largest fires in modern history were all, all happened last year. And they were all burning at the same time. Right. When four million acres of forest burned across the state last year, which was double the previous record, which was just in the previous couple of years. You know, it's just really staggering, right? There was nearly ten thousand separate fires across California last year. And the fire season is growing, right? Climate change, drought is driving more extreme fire seasons. And so, we're now seeing fire season in 2020 is 75 days longer than it was 20 years ago, just 20 years ago. And that's two months longer, two and a half months longer. And so there's this overarching kind of pressing need to fix that. And one of the best things that we can do is to get this excess unnatural growth out of our forests and turn it into wood products. So our forests in California are completely overgrown, grossly overgrown, naturally overgrown. We have, for the last hundred years, we've taken a policy of complete fire suppression.   Eve: [00:23:52] That's really interesting. Yeah, because fire is an actual regeneration of forests and that's what was brought up on me.   Scott: [00:24:02] Exactly.   Scott: [00:24:02] They happen for a reason. So, you have to just control them.   Scott: [00:24:07] Yes. Yes. And so we actually have to go back to a natural fire cycle where we're not stopping fires. We're actually letting fires happen. But in order for that to take place without being so destructive, like they are now, is we have to get all of that overgrowth that was the result of stopping fires in the forests.   Eve: [00:24:26] That's really interesting, though.   Scott: [00:24:28] Yeah.   Eve: [00:24:29] But my question is, is why were they stopped? I've always thought that the push of, you know, the spread of cities into forests. I mean, I've seen it in Australia, you know, as housing popped up in amongst the forests. Of course, you want to stop fires there. And that also exacerbated the problem because, you know, you have this push and pull between people who want to live in those places and the natural the natural forest. It's a mess.   Scott: [00:24:58] Yeah, right it is. Yeah. That's a huge, huge driver to it that that growth is called the WUI. It's the WUI and that's the wilderness urban interface. And that that growth, particularly since the 90s, has just been exponential as we've continued to sprawl ever farther outward in California. We've pushed our towns and cities, the perimeter, more and more into that WUI. And so that's been a big, big driver as well as the, you know, the agricultural, livestock and forestry industries in the 20th century. They didn't want fires. And you combine that with just a...   Eve: [00:25:44] Yeah   Scott: [00:25:44] Very. What's the term? I mean, what's the word? How do you describe it?   Eve: [00:25:48] It's a manmade problem.   Scott: [00:25:51] Yeah, yeah. And just a desire to control nature, you know, is man's desire , the man emphasis there to control nature and dictate, basically saying fires are evil and treating them as a as an enemy that needed to be defeated.   Eve: [00:26:07] When I was young in Sydney, Australia. I mean, I remember bush fires. Like Sydney's a huge….   Scott: [00:26:12] Bush fires. Yeah.   Eve: [00:26:12] I remember in the middle of the city, seeing just red and grey sky all around me. But there wasn't the pain and misery of today because not, there was not nearly as much suburban housing - it pushed into the wilderness.   Scott: [00:26:31] Yeah. Yep. Yep. And that's the same here. That's just an overarching problem that needs to be solved. And there's really no easy solution to it. The state now has about 33 million acres of forest, which is bigger than Oregon, and 13 million of them are considered very high risk. These are drought affected, beetle infected, because of lots of dead trees, and they have just this extreme level of overgrowth and that overgrowth are small and medium diameter trees. Those are the trees that normally would have been cleaned out by natural wildfires. And because there was no natural wildfires, they just exploded. And what they do, the small and medium diameter trees, they're much more susceptible to fire, but they're also tall enough to carry the fire into the canopies of the healthy, strong trees. And that's where we get these infernos that then get the wind picks up in the canopy and carries it from tree to tree. And it just creates these, this tinder box. So, we have to get those small and medium diameter trees out of the forest. And right now, they have no value. They're used for livestock, mulch, woodchips in your yard. And that's not a valuable enough product to justify the cost of thinning, mechanical thinning. And mechanical thinning is a laborious, hard job. You have to, you know, carry chainsaws and particularly if we want to take a much more ecological approach to forestry thinning and not clear cut and carve up all of these fire roads that cause horrible erosion. The state's trying to avoid the forestry problems of the past. So, it's all done, a lot of that has to be done by hand, much more mechanical.   Eve: [00:28:20] 32 million acres, manually cleared.   Scott: [00:28:24] It's staggering.   Eve: [00:28:25] It's really staggering. How long does it take?   Scott: [00:28:28] Yeah, the goal of the California Forest Management Task Force, which is kind of the broad extra agency group that's trying to address this challenge, their goal is a million acres per year by 2025. And right now - in 2019, we had 114 thousand acres - so we're off by a factor of ten.   Eve: [00:28:47] Wow. That's like one hundred years we're looking at and more.   Scott: [00:28:52] That's right. And what's going to be left in California in 100 years of we're burning four million acres a year. And it's not just, this is not an abstract any more. Our water, for all of those cities comes from these forests and with these forest fires that you can grossly impact our water supply. The carbon impact of this. Right, 2020, there was 112 million metric tons of carbon were released by the 2020 wildfires. Which is 30 percent more than all the power plants that generated power that year. So, the health and that's how you get into the asthma and respiratory issues of all that wildfire smoke. I mean, the implications of our society are bleak. And so, we have to figure out ways to get those small and medium diameter trees out of the forests. And that's why we really kind of looked at, you know, not only these cassette systems, but getting away from dimensional lumber and really kind of focusing on veneer-based products. So, there's another sub product of mass timber known as laminated veneer lumber or mass plywood panels, mass plywood. MPP is a brand from an Oregon company called Freres Brothers. And what they do is instead of cutting the log into 2x4s and having a bunch of scraps left over, is they put the log on a peeler and they peel the log and turn it into a big, long sheet. And then they glue those sheets together versus gluing 2x4s together. And that's something that you can do, that's, a that's a vehicle for these small and medium diameter trees, whereas 2x4 dimensional lumber is not really feasible. And so they can peel logs, you know, down to six to eight inches and turn them into veneers. And so that's what we're really focused on, is these veneer-based structural products. Both floor plates, floor and ceiling plates and wall plates as well. That's where we see our role in the forestry and the wildfire piece is creating market side demand for these small and medium diameter trees and putting them into really advanced, these really advanced cassette-based plate systems.   Eve: [00:31:14] Interesting. So I'm going to back up one more time. I sense a two-parter is coming on here. This is fascinating because...   Scott: [00:31:24] Yeah.   Eve: [00:31:24] I heard somewhere in amongst all the impact finance center information that there is a company out focusing on small diameter timber products. I can't remember the name of the company, in California.   Scott: [00:31:38] So, we pitched at that event. So you might have, is that our pitch that you're referring to?   Eve: [00:31:44] No, I think there's another company I talked to so, we can come back to that.   Scott: [00:31:50] Yeah, yeah.   Eve: [00:31:51] But I've heard of people focusing on specifically that product and now it's all falling into place for me. Personally, I didn't know all of this. It's really fascinating. But the importance of using that small diameter timber is becoming pretty clear.   Scott: [00:32:07] Uh huh. The great thing is that it could actually go into a very valuable product for the construction industry, the building industry. Incredibly green product, right? Very, very high embedded carbon in the veneer-based products, much lower travel times if we're sourcing our wood from our local forest and putting it into buildings in Los Angeles and Sacramento and San Jose. Think of all the truckloads from British Columbia and northern British Columbia that we're saving, right. And all that diesel fuel that gets burned. So, this really big upstream and downstream and benefits to sourcing this wood from California.   Eve: [00:32:51] Sounds like a whole new industry can emerge.   Scott: [00:32:54] That's the goal, right. And that's what the state is trying to incentivize is a re-ignition. I hate to use fire related terminology when talking about this stuff, but like, we kind of rekindling, that's another one, restarting a forestry industry in California, which is really kind of on its last breath. Like, in the last 45 years, 70 percent of wood processing facilities in California closed. So, there's really no eco system to actually process this. There's no LBL manufacturers in California. There's no plywood manufacturers in California. There's very few mills left in California. There's very few loggers left in California. And so we're kind of having to start from scratch. And what the state is working on is incentivizing and creating these wood products, wood innovation campuses, across the state to bring this industry back. And to bring it back with a much greater kind of technological focus and an environmental and ecological focus. And so that things are done right. And so we're at very early days of that. You know, we are not going to try to get into the manufacturing side of the LBL panels. It's a very capital heavy side and there's a reason why most of the companies that get into that, you know, they have three or four family generations that have been in the logging industry or they've been around for 150 years. You know, there are companies that just know how to do that and to manage those supply chains and to manage that production. And so we're focused on it being a remanufacture of those products. And so, if we can help, you know, kind of show that there's demand for this for this LBL and MPP type panels in California, hopefully we can then lure a manufacturer to the state, with our some of our demand, and get them active in the state and thinning our forests.   Eve: [00:34:58] So, Scott, you've bitten off a huge project, like where are you? You said you're in the third year.   Scott: [00:35:04] Yes.   Eve: [00:35:06] I mean, where are you in the process of building a company?   Scott: [00:35:09] Yeah, yep. So, it is a very meaty challenge and myself and everybody that's on our team is up for that challenge. That's why we're all here. We all understand the enormity of it and the, and the urgency of it. And that's what motivates us every day. And the fact is, there's not a lot of other companies doing this is yes, it's an opportunity, but it's also drives us to lead and to show that it can be done. And so, you know, we have to take advantage of the resources that we have. This is all bootstrapped at this point and self-funded, as you said, this is a big, meaty challenge. So, it's really hard for investors to kind of wrap their head around it or see an exit to liquidity event in the near term. So fundraising has been a challenge, but that's really not a deterrent to us in the slightest bit. And so, we have to focus on what we can sell for.   Eve: [00:36:08] Well, you have to eat. It's going to be a little bit of a deterrent, right?   Scott: [00:36:13] Well, you know, the spouses of entrepreneurs do a lot of the heavy lifting. Right? And so, I have a really, my wife is an incredible partner and she's also an entrepreneur, though a much more successful one. And she's able to carry us through this kind of start-up period. But what's great is that our story and our kind of mission is bringing a lot of really amazing people to the table. We are working with a company, for example, called Hacker Architects up in Portland, and they are an incredibly experienced, one of the most experienced architecture firms in North America working with mass timber. And they are becoming friends. Right. Like they they've really been a key supporter of our mission. And it really kind of backed us up and provided a lot of design assist and are really helping the design of our building system, because we have to think of this as a holistic building where we can put these different wood materials throughout the building. And so that's just one example. We've got a whole network, whole ecosystem of companies that all share our same values and recognize the enormity of the problems that we're solving. And so, we've built this great network of aligned allies that are helping us drive this forward. So, like I said, we're a small kind of bootstrap team, but we've got some really great friends. And, you know, we are in the R&D phase and getting closer to a first prototypes. We originally had our first building construction project penciled as supposed to break ground this year, as a single-family home in the Tahoe region. Unfortunately, that project kind of fell through, just wasn't the right application. And so, we decided to kind of shift focus. But ideally, we'd like to get a project off the ground here sometime this year with our investor pool that we do have and get a proof of concept project on paper this year and breaking ground next year. So that's really what we're what we're driving for at this point.   Eve: [00:38:22] What is good proof of concept look like at this point?   Scott: [00:38:25] Yes. So, we're looking at a small multi-family project and that's the market that we're going after is a unique market in the industry. Most of the construction industry and the prefab industry is really kind of set up to focus on how we build in the United States today, which is sprawl or tall. Right? Like it's single-family homes on the peripheral cities, or it's a big giant two hundred unit podium structures or towers in the urban core. And Fabric, we see the opportunity, especially considering the sheer scale of the housing need and how fast that housing needs to be produced and brought to market. We really see the opportunity in that missing middle upper missing middle range, small to medium lot, three to eight story buildings. So that's really our key focus and really kind of unique, a bit more unique in the marketplace. And so we want to, we want to get a proof of concept project of at least four units. It doesn't have to be huge. It just needs to show how the systems kind of work together and kind of bring that to life in an infill type application.   Eve: [00:39:42] I'm excited to see it.   Scott: [00:39:44] Yeah.   Eve: [00:39:44] Are you going to act as your own developer or are you looking for a developer who will use your system?   Scott: [00:39:51] Yeah, it's kind of like yes and...   Eve: [00:39:55] Yes, I know.   Scott: [00:39:56] If we yes, either, you know, we are talking to more and more developers. We are finding that network of of young kind of independent developers, baby developers, I've heard that kind of term kind of thrown around, you know, the folks that are producing like the 20-unit buildings and the odd 16-plex. Right. Like those small buildings. And we're building that network. And hopefully we can bring a developer partner to the table sooner rather than later. But we're also kind of setting ourselves up for self-developing our first project. And that's what we were going to do on that single family home. We were going to develop that through our, through one of our investors, but we kind of shifted and would like to ideally bring on a development partner that knows that process better than we do. You know, we're not developers.   Eve: [00:40:47] And so you might stretch yourself very thin during trying to do both.   Scott: [00:40:52] Yes, exactly. And we have to kind of kind of focus on what our value add is. And the development side is not it today, who knows down the road where this goes. But as of now, ideally, we have a partner that can, that can really kind of drive this through that to the development process.   Eve: [00:41:11] So you've talked about these materials looking very sleek. What does that first project going to look like?   Scott: [00:41:18] Yeah, I wish I could show you some of the renderings, the absolutely beautiful renderings that Hacker put together for us. One of the advantages of focusing on this smaller type three, type five building typology is that the fire code and the fire ratings aren't as strict with the CLT. So we can leave a lot more of that with the mass timber, we can leave a lot more of that exposed. So, you'll see a lot of exposed natural wood elements. So wooden ceilings, heavy timber beams, well it will have the aesthetic about heavy timber beams, but it's actually LDM. A lot of the columns in the beams will be exposed and even wall panels can be of exposed wood to them. So, a very natural and a minimal, what's the term a soft minimal kind of aesthetics to them and and very high precision tolerances on that minimalism, right, like that's kind of what separates good minimalism from bad minimalism is the execution and the precision of it. And because everything is cut in a factory, the aesthetic is just really tight and really clean. And so we're really looking forward to bringing that to life.   Eve: [00:42:37] Do you have the renderings on the website you'd like to share?   Scott: [00:42:40] Yeah, on our website we have a few renderings on there. So you can kind of get a sense out of the real aesthetic and that that would be our proof of concept project. Each developer will have that choice that they want to drywall over those exposed wood elements they can. But our preference would be to leave them exposed. And there's a lot of really interesting data back to that benefits of mass timber. There's a lot of really interesting data around the biophilia benefits of mass timber, where people get that sense of serenity and calm. Like being in a forest.   Eve: [00:43:16] Yes.   Scott: [00:43:17] In a mass timber house, they are really cool buildings. I don't know if you've had a chance to spend time in one. But they do have a a dampness to them, not not wet, damp, but just materially damp. And so sound travels differently. And you do get the sense that you're in the forest. It's really, it's a really cool experience.   Eve: [00:43:37] So I'm going to go back.  You're in Truckee. Right. And I'm wondering...   Scott: [00:43:41] That's correct. Yes.   Eve: [00:43:42] Why are you in Truckee?   Scott: [00:43:44] I asked myself that question sometimes, too. I love Truckee, but I'm definitely a city kid. So, Truckee is more or less a one road town. And so, I do feel a little stir crazy here sometimes, but it is a great place. And I have two young kids, four and six years old, and just this is a big playground for them. So, we ended up in Truckee a long time, a decade and a half in San Francisco, three years down in Los Angeles, and then had to get out of L.A. and Truckee was supposed to be a one year stopover on the way back to the bay. But, shocker, the cost of housing was so high in the bay that we couldn't afford anything there so we could afford something in Truckee, Truckee at the time. So we were able to…   Eve: [00:44:34] You're living the Californian dream.   Scott: [00:44:36] Yeah. More or less trying to.   Eve: [00:44:40] Okay. So tell me, I'm going to move to shift gears a little bit and just ask you, are there any other current trends out there or innovations in real estate development or construction that you believe are really important for our future?   Scott: [00:44:54] Yeah, and so a couple, yeah, so one thing that we are bringing in house we have, this is a capability that we are, as we speak, kind of building out a facility is the fabrication side of construction and particularly automated and robotic fabrication. That is the piece that's going to have prefab construction kind of realize the benefits that it kind of promised the world when it came out a few decades ago. You know, from pricing to quality control, robotic fabrication is going to be a huge piece of this. And we are actively building that capacity out in California, will be a leader in that space here in the state. And particularly as more and more construction will go towards wood-based construction to offset the carbon and environmental impacts of concrete and steel. You know, we firmly believe that wood construction is the future of construction. And so, to make that a reality, you have to have a much more advanced fabrication capabilities like you see across Switzerland and Austria and Germany and Sweden, for example.   Eve: [00:46:10] Right. Right.   Scott: [00:46:11] And so that's going to be a big piece. Right. And then, you know, I do believe fundamentally that we are seeing the cracks in the dam when it comes to planning and zoning in particular. I think that the sea change and our laws and regulations on what gets built and where is going to happen very quickly, much faster than I think a lot of people give it credit for. You know, we are slowly starting to see the end of single family only zoning. When I first really started thinking about creating the housing company in 2014, most of them really talk about like, oh, yeah, houses are expensive in nice parts of the city. But that was kind of the attitude. And now fast forward seven years and it's a topic in our presidential campaigns. It's just becoming a fundamental issue in this country. And I think that the 20th century experiment of highly segregated neighborhoods, housing over here, business over there, commerce over here. Single family based, car based, an entirely car-based society, car exclusive society. I really fundamentally believe that that is coming to an end in California and that those changes are going to happen. It's going to build and then is going to happen really rapidly.   Eve: [00:47:36] Wow. I have one final question for you, and that is, what is your big, hairy, audacious goal?   Scott: [00:47:43] Yeah, I and I would say, you know, not as ambitious to say we want to build a new city out of wood, but definitely, you know, a neighborhood out of wood. That's kind of our big goal is to build a five 600-unit community, all sustainably sourced, locally sourced, sustainably sourced timber neighborhood. And we're seeing those neighborhoods pop up in Europe and Japan and they are incredibly inspiring. They are walkable, human scaled, car free, no carbon passive house technology. And I would love to just get my hands on a decrepit shopping mall in central Sacramento and convert that into the neighborhood. A vibrant, diverse, mixed income neighborhood in in Sacramento, for example. And that's our big, big goal that we're driving towards.   Eve: [00:48:41] Oh, I'm really excited for you. It sounds amazing. And I hope sometime in the future we'll get to host one of your projects on Small Change.   Scott: [00:48:51] Would absolutely love that. Yes.   Eve: [00:48:53] Thank you so much, Scott.   Scott: [00:48:55] Yes, thank you, Eve. Really appreciate the time. And I'm honored to be on your podcast and be part of this group. So thank you.   Eve: [00:49:11] That was Scott Ehlert of Fabric Workshop. Scott pivoted his life and career in a way that most people do not dare. He is making all bets on an industry that doesn't quite exist yet and technology that he needs to design. While other housing developers try to crack the construction affordability code using the same old building systems, Scott has spent years planning how to become a housing developer using a brand new building system, one that he has designed and one that he will manufacture. We'll be hearing more about Scott. I'm sure.   Eve: [00:49:58] You can find out more about this episode on the show notes page at EvePicker.com, or you can find other episodes you might have missed, or you can show your support at Patreon.com/rethinkrealestate, where you can learn about special opportunities for my friends and followers. A special thanks to David Allardice for his excellent editing of this podcast and original music. And thanks to you for spending your time with me today. We'll talk again soon. But for now, this is Eve Picker signing off to go make some change.

Heather catches up with friend and OG podcast guest Raymond Padilla! They discuss Ray's recent move to New York (spoiler: its been a bumpy ride) and how he is living his "gay ass truth".   Head over to WOO More Play and use code ABSOLUTELY for 20 percent OFF your order!   Treat yourself to ultimate comfort with Brooklinen’s comforter collection. Go to Brooklinen.com and use promo code absolutelynot to get $25 off, with a minimum purchase of $100!   As a listener of this podcast, you’ll get $100 off of your first month with Talkspace. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to Talkspace.com. Make sure to use the code ABSOLUTELY to get $100 off of your first month and show your support for the show.   Produced by Dear Media. 

Heather catches up with friend and OG podcast guest Raymond Padilla! They discuss Ray's recent move to New York (spoiler: its been a bumpy ride) and how he is living his "gay ass truth".   Head over to WOO More Play and use code ABSOLUTELY for 20 percent OFF your order!   Treat yourself to ultimate comfort with Brooklinen’s comforter collection. Go to Brooklinen.com and use promo code absolutelynot to get $25 off, with a minimum purchase of $100!   As a listener of this podcast, you’ll get $100 off of your first month with Talkspace. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to Talkspace.com. Make sure to use the code ABSOLUTELY to get $100 off of your first month and show your support for the show.   Produced by Dear Media. 

Trevor  0:12  You know Dave, I've been working a long time on my awareness of others, and I'm a task-oriented. Go get them, type person, and really been trying to balance that. And the same thing is that I always kind of wake up thinking, I'm a good person. But then sometimes I find myself being short with people and someone said to me, you know, it's not about, you got to try to be kind, you just got to be mindful of not being unkind, what do you think of that Dave.   Dave  0:47  That's crazy. I, first of all, I appreciate you admitting your work through your self-awareness because that's all part of the process here. But as we all are, especially me, but, you know, with kindness. A my take on that is, you can be kind all day long but if you're not aware of how you come across people read through that kindness perhaps as manipulative or a little bit of, it's not sincere. And you may be kind, but you're truly unkind, in the eyes of others and Tate's gets kind of cool and we've got Elizabeth guests with us here today and she is. Got a quote or a motto that is just phenomenal. It's, it's basically genuine kindness is tested and proven method and leaving people better than when you met them. And that's just, that's extraordinary and I used to say that about safety at work in a manufacturing environment. We want people to leave as good or better than they were when they came here but, Elizabeth, put a different twist on this relative to kindness, and we're going to jump in with Elizabeth today on this topic in many others I'm sure as we go but welcome Elizabeth, how are you doing today? Elizabeth  2:17  I'm doing well, thank you so very much Dave and Trevor for having me I am super excited and stoked to be here with you all today. Dave  2:25  Good deal. Good deal. Well, you know, from Queens, New York as a native of Queens, New York. With this migration south, you know, as I understand from back in oh six of kindness was not a part of your experience in one of the reasons that you moved to South Carolina. Right, I go in there and ask you to unpack that for us because you've got a great story there. Elizabeth  3:00  You see, in 2006 I didn't understand kindness. I was actually… I am a survivor of domestic violence and uprooted my family my three boys at the time and moved to South Carolina barely knew anyone here had some family here and I really just was looking for that fresh start. And you know, being from Queens, New York. Kindness is not really the thing that's associated with the New York, uh you know you've got the, you know I'm looking here kind of thing going on. And, you know, so I always felt that, yes, I was born and raised in New York but I believe I'm, I've always been a Southern belle but, you know, at heart, but kindness is just, to me it is just the most important thing to me it is the currency of success. It is what I have used it is tested and proven, and more than likely people will understand, you know how your interactions have impacted them and they'll want to experience those things over and over again, and the method that has to be included in that is going to be kind and how you continue to treat others and how you know that is reciprocated through relationship. Dave  4:10  Well, Trevor. I mean, don't ask me about kindness I mean you set me up in the beginning, but that's why I'm so glad Elizabeth is here today. Yeah, Elizabeth. Trevor  4:23  So what do you think about kindness then, you believe like everyone is naturally kind, and then our brains are kind of hardwired, and take stealing from Brene Brown a bit there, you know, we'd love to judge, and for some reason our, our brains if we're not intentional, just turn to that judgment, and it's not a good feeling and I catch myself doing it sometimes and it's kind of like, why did that unkind thought, Where did that come from because I don't want that. Where do you think that comes from or what are your thoughts on that? Elizabeth  4:58  I believe it's the understanding of kindness. Kindness is not the absence of judgment, it's not the absence of error, I think it is intentionality, it is you're making an intentional decision to treat someone better, you know than maybe they would expect to go above and beyond what's expected and kindness sometimes has this, I guess misperception of being weak, or you know just being you know no place in the workplace or, you know, I've got to be aggressive or you don't have to, you can have such significant present presence, and leave a kind, you know, I guess feeling with someone and just really just have an exchange that is pleasant. So, I can still have great influence I can still have great negotiating skills, but you may want to do business with me more because of the experience you have with me. I am all about experience, every experience, every interaction with someone should be five stars, or very close to it, where we should be striving to do it. Trevor  6:05  So how did you, like that's beautiful what you said, and how did you get from like that New York State to that. How well you articulate that, and I can just feel the passion in your voice when you say that. Was there something? How did you get there? Elizabeth  6:20  I think, if I may use just the experience of being a domestic violence victim, of course, you don't have a voice, you don't really know how to advocate for yourself, you know you're receiving things that are not kind or unkind and as he mentioned earlier. So I really had to learn first to be kind to myself, and one, and then I also had to learn to be kind to others because I was so suspicious of everyone, every interaction I figured this would bring some form of hurt, and there was a defense mechanism that was up, so I felt like you know, maybe I'm not going to show my kind side because I don't want you to take advantage and I started realizing I was running into these brick walls because I had such a tough exterior. And when I learned this key skill and actually transferred it over into my professional world. I'm telling you like my success with people just skyrocketed through the roof, because I was able to be vulnerable, and that's why I'm so transparent with my journey messy says everything that I've accomplished Hey, whatever I know I'm willing to share with you because I believe it'll help make you better. Dave  7:37  Well, so when you know when I think of the best compliment I've ever received is “Dave, you're one of the kindest people I've ever met!” And I'm not sure that I've heard that. But once or twice in my life. Right. And it's like, you know, why is that not. Why do I not hold that with greater regard? Why is that not a higher priority for me? Well, the bottom line is it doesn't sound or feel that ‘manly’. Right, living in a manufacturing environment it's about being tough it's about delivering it's about hitting the home, and, you know man-made, but I'll also tell you that I have fired people with the utmost kindness to where when they walked out of the room, they either shook my hand hugged me, smiled and said, thank you. In the end, I think that's just a real demonstration of kindness, kindness like you had said earlier is not a weakness. It's not something that shows the sign, you know, shows vulnerability, it's something that basically commands. The situation or commands the circumstance, and a kind person, can be kind in whatever it is that they’re doing. And that's, this is, this is awesome it's a great conversation. But I want to change it up just a hair. I want to talk a little bit about something that I know about you, where you believe that you've got to have this mindset where average, and, you know, the average is average but breaking through this glass ceiling is like. You can do this, I can do this regardless of who you are and from your background, your, your life story, to where you are today. You know glass ceiling. Right? I know glass ceilings, believe it or not as a white guy. Right, I know a glass ceiling. I know when I see it I know when I feel it I know I’ve experienced it, but what's your take on the trick, other than kindness, right, which is in there, where what? Where's this coming from that this mindset of we can break this glass ceiling? Take us down that path. Elizabeth  10:26  So, I'm back to your analogy of glass ceilings, which is one of my favorite sounds, the sound of glass, hitting the floor after you have shattered the ceiling. I love it. I love being perceived as the underdog, and then just coming in and just kind of walking and leading the pack that's me. And I only learn that by taking advantage of all of the opportunities. So, for example, moving to South Carolina. I didn't really have any employment, um, when I first got here it was almost like you needed to know someone to get in here I knew I had skills but you needed to know someone. So I ended up traveling back and forth to New York for a year. The brain now might be. And so having to go back and forth, until I was able to find a position here. Once I landed a position here, I knew in my mind, I'm not going to waste this opportunity. I have been given a second chance. And so I'm going to take every opportunity given to me and just run with it. So, the first step is to really believe that you can be something other than what you've been so it does start with a mindset. It starts with something of saying, Okay, what I've done to this date, I want it to be different from what I do tomorrow. So even now if you look at my story now, it is so uncommon. I didn't graduate from college until I was in my 30s. I'm now a director of human resources I own a consulting agency I'm a Director of Human Resources for five branches at Carolina Foothills Federal Credit Union, which I absolutely love working there because it gives me an opportunity to get into the community, but all of that aside, all of that couldn't have been done without a renewed and retrained mindset. So all of those things would just allow me to say hey I'm just going to keep breaking barriers and just shattering glass ceilings, and that wasn't done by anything that I've done, it's not that I'm that great, that I was able to do it. It's a renewed mind that transforms you and kindness, helps more people take chances on me than rudeness. So being unkind, it's what allowed people to say hey I want to take a gamble on her, and they - they're winning. Trevor 12:51  They say I've got a whole, whole concept of you look externally to things but never trust someone that gives you a shirt that isn't wearing one. So it's that same thing of, you know, you, you got to look inside yourself. So, for the listeners then Elizabeth, how do they know or are they being kind to themselves and you have to do those things that those accomplishments that you've, you had to work on yourself first, and then note that because you got yourself in that right mindset. You were able to do anything you did anything you want to do, and how about for someone, when you talk to people, I know you've helped others, how do you help someone that's maybe stuck, and right now they're trying to touch that glass ceiling, they're not breaking through. What can they do listening and maybe driving into work right now?   Elizabeth 13:45  One of the biggest things I believe is understanding your expectations. If we understand the frustration. Frustration is the unmet expectation, it means that I haven't clearly communicated my expectations to you and therefore, you can't meet them, I never told you what I was looking for. So, I think if that person understands truly what it is they're expecting from whether it's the organization, they're in, whether it's the business they're trying to launch the book they're trying to write whatever it is they're trying to do, they have to have that vision and goal. Once you have that vision and goal in place, then you can begin to command the response that you're looking for, and I use Command very loosely because I don't use it in a way to where you have to come in a brace it and aggressive. You don't have to do that. I think if you're very clear in advocating for yourself. Also, giving out what you expect to receive. So, if you're looking for support. If you're looking for genuine leadership, you've got to put those out there, you can't hoard all of your kindness to yourself and expect everyone else to divvy out their areas of kindness, it's just not fair. So, I think you have to be positioned in that to show the world what it is you're expecting for them and be okay to actually receive it and do something with it, and then be okay to give it out. You don't keep it, you give it. So hopefully that answers your question. Trevor 15:14  Yeah, I think that ties into that whole transformational aspect that, that I know that you have experience in your space, how does that tell you that that whole transformation. I think it is about transforming the area, most people, you can transform two areas. One internally, you can transform what's happening within you and within your mind. You also have the power to influence your environment. And that is really what I specialize in with leadership development is really teaching the leaders or whether it's emerging leaders or leaders that have been doing this for 15 plus years, you have the authority and ability to transform your environment, if you're willing and open to change. If you keep giving out the words seven expensive words ‘we've always done it that way'. If you keep giving out those words you're never going to experience transformation is an intentional change. Change is disruptive, you have to be willing to disrupt your normalcy. So even in organizations. That's why I say relationships are so key and being intentional and building those relationships because it's going to require your change it's going to require you to do something different than you've always done. Dave 16:30  So listen, if you did something that you had never done before, in making the transition from New York to South Carolina but let's bring it up, maybe more recently and share with us I'm putting you on the spot here, but again, share with us a transformation that you've made recently that really took a, an intentional effort in checking your mindset. Elizabeth  17:06  So for me, um, and I'll talk about joining the credit union, if I may join the credit union, a whole new industry I came from a large retailer. And so I came from a large sports retailer and so going into the credit union was a totally different new industry. So I was coming in, brand new to an organization that never had an HR person at all, they've always kind of operated on their own. And I was tasked with, you know, having all these policies and procedures and things and, and, and I was fine with that. But what I asked for my seat, CEO is May I have time to just go sit with the employees. And he kind of, you know, looked at me a little perplexed and he said well, you know, do you want to start there and I said yes because I need their buy-in. I need to build relational equity with the employees. So my first two weeks I believe I went around to all the branches and I sat down one on one with all employees, and I went in thinking that I had to find out the problems to solve the problems, I didn't. All I had to do was sit down and listen to them, and influence them and make them aware that they were the solutions to the problems that they had. And there were some things of course that they that were out of their scope of control that I needed to take, take care of cool we can do that. But for some of these things, they're in your wheelhouse, you can do this, you can fix these things, and it was so amazing because it took me out of the mindset of a problem solver to a part of the solution that was already in place, so I was coming in thinking I needed to wear a cape and fix all these things, they already had what they needed, I just needed to help influence the change. Dave  18:59  Wow. And then so that transformation was not transactional, it was a process, it was relational. Elizabeth 19:10  It was relational. Too many times, you know, I remember and think about where, in order for me to transform to change, to take it to the next level, it's like, what box, do I need to check right from a performance basis, you know, what can I do as opposed to making that investment in overtime. In, with the relationships of the people, and look at it more of as a process. Elizabeth 19:50  Absolutely. I mean it, even and I'll add this to it if I may, it was a matter of just creating those just because moments, and I ended up and I still do these to this day where I just send a Skype, how are you, you know how's the family, what's going on with you and it's to the point where now, not only am I having conversations with the employees about HR issues and topics, but they're telling me, hey I just bought a house, I want you to see my daughter's you know dance recital, I'm so I'm ingrained in their life, and I think it's so important because they spend so much time at work, why would you want to spend time at a place where no one cares about what you have going on. So it's so important to build those relationship blocks and just continue to build upon them and they just kind of serve itself because now employees want to work. Now they want to come here now they want to share their successes so it's a give and take. Trevor  20:46  That's pretty cool how you're able to come in as a fresh set of eyes and. And they always say, you know the answers aren't within the four walls. Law those answers are there, you have every, every employee’s an engineer. And you, you have to have that give and take and the fact of, if you don't care about me personally. How can I trust and if I can't trust, how do I engage and it's just that whole circle that always comes back and forth and it's like the answer is right in front of us and it's like, and I was guilty of that of just getting so much on the task. And really it's kind of like as, especially as leaders. It's sometimes less effort we put in the greater results we can get and that ties into the whole coach approach right and just the fact of, hey, what's, what's going on, counts want to get to know you want to have that. If I want to help transform you and then I think that ties back into the whole, you know, kindness and not judging and just, Hey, I'm just curious, that's interesting, how you feel that way. Tell me more. And just, it just comes out and then all sudden and what, how can we didn't talk about this before I don't know where we are now, that's good. Elizabeth 22:00 Exactly. Well, Trevor, I mean that was even, you know just such a great point that you just made, and even in that it is understanding, even as leaders, you know, this is not to beat up on leaders at all at all at all because a lot of times we are tasked with getting the targets done getting the goals that making sure we meet our goals is, you know, production up and a lot of times those things that noise crowds out the fact that hey I actually have I even checked on my people today have I even asked how to do it, you know, so a lot of times, it depends on what the noise frequency is of the organization. If it's goals, then that's fine. Let it be goals but let there be a section where you have a people strategy, where maybe you're tasked with keeping an eye on your people. So that could be something that that could be, you know, a fix to that too if you don't really have yourself finding the time to check on some kind of ties right back what you said earlier about just being intentional doesn't just happen. There's enough noise in the day and enough wind that it won't happen but if you're intentional and like you said there's some type of strategy, whatever that looks like for you, for you personally for your company. Dave 23:28  Elizabeth you're, you and I had, we don't go back years. Okay, but I can tell you, every interaction I have ever had with you, you're like, what is it a that's different, and it's clear to me now this, this woman is kind. She is like the epitome of kindness, that's what. Now I'm not saying that I'm saying that only to help me differentiate one person to the next on what is, what the attraction is right and, but for our listeners and for me, right, maybe it's no one else but you've got a husband and four sons. Surely you are not kind, all the time in that environment. And we need to know, right, your listeners want to know at what point do you lose your kindness and say, enough's enough, you know, enough of the kindness guys, I mean it's time for us, what I mean, we're at breaking point, I just, I'm dying to know. Elizabeth 24:45  So I will let you in, I am from Queens, New York, don't get me wrong, so there is a thug, in here, I promise you. I’m five feet tall. On a good day, so my oldest son is pushing six feet somewhere around in there. However, they know I've mastered the Mom stare, so I don't have to do a lot of talking. They say that I'm HR even in the house, so I’m HR, even in the house. But for them, I talk to them. I'm very intentional about it. My husband is an amazing man he really is. He is my biggest cheerleader. He's the one that keeps me grounded and pushes me to do all these amazing things that I never knew I can do but he's, he's one of my clients actually I'm teaching him patience so even that kindness that I'm talking to you about today he's learning that. And don't get me wrong, I lose my cool, I get frustrated, I do. Sometimes I want to go off in a corner and scream that happens. But it is coming back to just being center, and understanding, you know, hey, let's go ahead and regroup, get yourself to get together, or with what I have to do. Trevor  28:07  Love that Elizabeth, you I can feel your passion through there, I get the whole act what Dave's been talking about, and what a great story to share with so many people. And I, for me I kind of take away this whole thing of just that reminder that one is, of course, being good to yourself and then looking at others, but I also take away today in our discussion is just that whole intentions thing and, and a portion of his vulnerability but a portion of it is, I know that when we say our emotions. Even if like you know I'm nervous right now on this podcast if I say that, we know the cortisol will drop right and that will actually decrease, you know how much stress you have when you say hey you know what I noticed that I'm all nervous to approach you on this but my intentions are, I feel like I got this glass ceiling. And I just want to talk about that, and I think that is just such great advice just to start to break down some of those barriers and just so many things to take away from being so grateful to have you on here today, it was awesome.

Sometimes we sit around and think "Man, I wonder what it was like to be Joan Crawford's daughter." Luckily, this movie exists to give us a glimpse into growing up Crawford! Wire hangers? Absolutely not! Rose garden? Better chop it down! Offend your mother in front of someone? Barbara, please! It's episode 23! Instagram - @takeadrinkwhen / Twitter - @tadwpodcast / Intro Music by Julian Moore / Art by Abigail Lupoff

Does fun in the workplace really matter? Absolutely!  In this masterclass episode of One Next Step, Tricia and Lisa talk about the ins and outs of creating a fun company culture – and why creating one matters. The truth is, building a positive and fun company culture is one of the best and easiest ways to recruit new talent and keep your current talent feeling fulfilled and dedicated to your mission. Welcome to episode 40 of One Next Step.

Moira McCarthy and Stacey are back to answer your D-parenting questions! This time around, they're talking about a dad who’s a first responder and sees the emergency side of diabetes, advice for young adults with T1D getting their first jobs and questions about teens with diabetes traveling abroad. In our Innovations segment – a new glucagon and previous guest Bob Weisher launches his Invincible Kids app for teens. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Check out Stacey's book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode Transcription Stacey Simms  0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dario health. Manage your blood glucose levels increase your possibilities. By Gvoke Hypopen the first premixed auto injector for very low blood sugar, and by Dexcom, keeping you in control with an integrated system for diabetes management.   Announcer  0:22 This is Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  0:28 This week, ask the D moms is back! Moira McCarthy joins me to answer your questions, including one about sending a teenwith type one on an international trip for a month   Moira McCarthy  0:41 You can’t go from constantly overseeing it for years and years and years to bang letting them go on something like this. And that's why you've got to kind of poke at it. And it's not as much for them as it is for us for parents because we have to get past our own eggs. And that's how you do it.   Stacey Simms  1:00 We also talk about a dad who's a first responder and sees the emergency side of diabetes advice for young adults getting their first jobs, and Moira shares a story that stopped her in her tracks, even after 24 years of her daughter's diabetes. In our innovation segment, a new glucagon option and former guest invincible kids takes a big step forward. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Welcome to another week of the show, we aim to educate and inspire about diabetes with a focus on people who use insulin. My son was diagnosed with type one more than 14 years ago as a toddler. My husband lives with type two. I don't have diabetes, I have a background in broadcasting. And that is how you get this podcast. If you are a careful, longtime listener, you have probably guessed that the teenager I was talking about in that tease there. The intro I do for every show is Benny. Yeah, my son is set to go to Israel for a month this summer. It's part of a camp program. I've been sending him to this camp since he was eight years old at age nine. He started going for a month. It's not a diabetes camp. But I took advantage of having more on the show to ask her for some advice. Because even though I let him go, you know, I am nervous about this whole thing. COVID aside, you know, this is a very, very big deal for me. He's super excited, and we'll talk about that in just a minute. With Moira A big thank you to JDRF Desert West. That's the chapter that now includes Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico I believe they had me out for a they had me on zoom. It's so easy to say they had me come by. I hope we get back to that soon. But I did this via zoom, we had a great time. They have an ongoing event called type one talk. And they're bringing in authors, they have an author come in talk about the book read a little bit answer questions. It was a great fun time. I have to admit it was a little difficult to stay up because I know I’m such a baby. But it was on pacific time and I’m on the east coast. And I mean, I'm awake. We did it at I believe it started at 830 my time, and we went on with 10 o'clock. But I mean I'm not in bed, but I'm definitely in pajamas. Usually by which made it even more fun because I think maybe I was a bit looser. You know, just it was more casual in a way then during office hours. But I really enjoyed that. And I got to say, you know, the world's worst diabetes mom had an amazing February and March. You know, the book came out in at the end of 2019. But thank you so much. If you are spreading the word or you've told friends about it, something happened this year, and it has sold more than definitely than I expected this year, but it's outselling some months right around lunch. So I'm very excited and I am working on the idea for Book Two. I'll keep you posted on that. But I'm always happy to talk to JDRF chapters, other groups, a mom group, you know, just to sit and chat. Just let me know. Moira and D mom advice coming up in just a moment. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dario health. One of the things that makes diabetes management difficult for us that really annoys me and Benny, isn’t actually the big picture stuff. It's all the little tasks adding up. I mean, are you sick of running out of strips? Do you need some direction or encouragement going forward with your diabetes management with visibility into your trends help you on your wellness journey? The Dario diabetes success plan offers all of that and more. No more waiting in line at the pharmacy. No more searching online for answers no more wondering about how you're doing with your blood sugar levels. Find out more go to my dario.com forward slash diabetes dash connections. My guest this week is my good friend and fellow D mom Moira McCarthy. She is an author, a writer and advocate and so much more. Her daughter Lauren was diagnosed at age six in 1997. And I started the Ask the D mom segment A couple of years ago here on the show. We love getting questions from you Moira and I, as you probably know, are very much aligned to philosophically when it comes to diabetes, which kind of makes sense because I learned an awful lot from her. She's one of my mentors, and I'm so thankful that I had her blog. Despite diabetes and her books to guide me early on in Benny's journey. I mean, even before I met more, I've told this story many times before I was a big fan. And when I finally got to meet her in 2015, we spoke on the same bill at JDRF. St. Louis, I was so excited, I was kind of intimidated to be speaking on the same bill as she was. And that's really how our friendship our in person real friendship started. I bring that up. Because while we're aligned, as I say, we also had our kids diagnosed at very different times in diabetes, tech availability, or even what insulins were available at the time. So you know, 1997, when Lauren was diagnosed, was really different from almost a decade later, 2006 when Betty was diagnosed, I mean, can you think that a kid diagnosed today when they leave the hospital quite often with an insulin pump and a Dexcom? Very different times. So I like that more. And I kind of overlap in that way and have a bit of a different perspective, just in our experiences, but some really good questions this time around. And as I said, I threw one in as well. Moira, welcome back. It's always great to talk to you. I feel like we do this seasonally. Did we talk last year during allergy season?   Moira McCarthy  6:19 It's funny, because when's the last time that we did a chat like this to share with everyone? It's been? It's been a hot minute, or Oh, it's   Stacey Simms  6:27 been since last fall? Probably before maybe right around Halloween? Yeah, I   Moira McCarthy  6:31 can't decide if time is passing really slowly or in the blink of an eye. I just don't even know anymore. But I feel like   Stacey Simms  6:39 yeah, this this year is flying by and it's spring, is it really spring by you? It's usually.   Moira McCarthy  6:44 It's horrible. But it's spring on the calendar. But that's okay.   Stacey Simms  6:49 Well, we had a bunch of really interesting questions this time around. And I thought of you I was in a JDRF discussion. This is a really neat event I did with the the chapter in Las Vegas and surrounding states. So it was a couple of days after I've been there a few times. So I hope to go in person one of these days. But it was like a book club discussion, which was really fun. So I read part of my book. And then we had a whole group discussion. And I got a really interesting question from one of the moms who was there, and I wanted to run it by you. This mom says she's pretty laid back, their son has type one, I want to say he is seven, but he might be a little bit older might be a tween, but the mom says she's pretty laid back really wants her kid to thrive with type one. But the father, her husband is a firefighter. He's a first responder, and he sees in his words, the worst of T1D. So he is very nervous that their son will have, you know, an unhealthy a bad outcome and all these words that he was using, and wants much more strict control, and really wants to get this message across to their son that you know, you've got to take care of yourself, where's the mom just really want to expose their son to the kinds of things that this firefighter is seeing? If all of that makes sense. What do you think about that?   Moira McCarthy  8:10 Well, so first of all, what they expose them to would very much depend on his age, and seven and a tween are very different. Right? So we'll just speak more generally, around it. Do our children need to understand the basics of type 1 diabetes, and why they do what they do? Absolutely. Why would you even a toddler, you, you must have done it with Benny that when you're giving them the shot, you say, you know, we're giving you this medicine so that now you can eat your food and it won't make you sick and things like that. And then as they get older, so you want them to understand it. But do you want to educate them in a fear factor kind of way? And to that? I would say no. Now, why is that? Well, that's because a number of reasons. First of all, children have very creative imaginations, and you can plant some really scary ideas in their head at a young age that may take forever for them to get out of their heads. Second, this gentleman, and thank you for his service, right sees the worst because that's his job to see the worst. If his job was to go visit everyone with diabetes every day, he probably wouldn't feel the way he felt. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so he's seeing these very rare, very frightening situations. So what I would say is, if there's any way that the mom and the dad can attend something together, whether it's virtual, or in person where they talk about the holistic approach to raising a child with diabetes, and we can you and I can talk about that a little bit right now for this mom and this dad. But as I've said to you many times, and as we all say to one another, we're not just raising controlled Diabetes, we're raising a full human being. And it's very important that a child grow up, secure, happy feeling cared for, not afraid of what may be around the corner, while at the same time having a basic understanding of why they might need to do what they would do. So if this child is seven, I would say there's absolutely no reason under any circumstance to talk about what that Father has seen, ever add to a seven year old. If this child is a tween 1112, I don't think it's the worst idea to maybe tell a story every once in a while. But I would also be careful of that. Because, again, you don't know if that person you're treating actually takes really good care of their diabetes, and is just in a bad situation you don't know, as an EMT, or a paramedic, paramedic, if there's an underlying illness that they may not know about, and they'll find out at the hospital or something. So, so even though you're there, you don't know the whole history. And I would just be careful around that. One of the things I will say is, I really do know, 1000s of families with someone who has type 1 diabetes in their family, and maybe five have had to call a paramedic, who I know, it's not out of the realm of possibility, but it's also not a probability. It's not it's way closer to never happening than it is to happening. And so based on that, I question whether you should build fear in a child to hope that they will take care of their diabetes. The other thing too is I know from raising my daughter, fear does not work in children. It's the same with everything, not just diabetes, they don't see down the road, they don't see danger, that part of them hasn't developed yet. I would say focus more on how he feels when he plays soccer, or he plays the tuba or whatever it is he does or he plays chess, or he reads, how does he feel them? That's what I would focus on. It's got to be so hard for that dad, though, with what he's seen.   Stacey Simms  12:08 Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, the way I answered it was, there's two parts to my answer. And the second part, I credited to you, I promise, because it's pure Moira. But the first thing I said was, we have to kind of understand that there are these issues of access, education, family support. And when, you know, from my experience with this podcast, my audience, the people who as you're listening, now, you are a very different and wonderful and kind of lucky bunch of people, because you are seeking out diabetes education, you now know where to get community support, if you don't have family support. And I do surveys of my audience all the time where these people have plenty of support, you know, they have a, they have community, they have friends, they have family, they have somebody to help them out. And I say all that because my guess and it's a guess. And this is not a value, state judgment, anything on people who call paramedics, we all need them when we need them. But my guess would be that the repeat people that this firefighter is seeing if that's indeed the case, are probably people who do not have the support and the setup that his son have. So it's not a fair comparison, in my opinion, of what his son may experience. And again, we have no idea what he's really seeing, right is a type two is a type one, does it really matter? Right Is this a Is this a father who may also see his son weaving without diabetes in every child that he takes care of?   Moira McCarthy  13:38 I was thinking that like I see a car accident, it must just be horrible. I mean, that have diabetes diagnosis is very traumatic to the parent. And it took me a long time to be comfortable is a weird word, but to be comfortable with it, you know, and if it's right in your face, like that, the poor man, but I would also say that you can go out and find the worst case scenario anytime with anything, and then dwell on that. Again, if it's put in your face every day, like this poor gentleman and his job, it's harder to look past, but he's gonna have to find a way to differentiate his child's diabetes from what he does on the road every day. And I just hope that he can, because I can't imagine how difficult it is to see that and then think about your own child.   Stacey Simms  14:29 And the second part of what I told this mom to try, as, and this is one of the things you've pulled out of your bag is write down what he is concerned about. And she should do the same. Anything she's concerned about about her husband overreacting and what it might do to their son, and he should write down. I'm not overreacting, this is what I see. And then bring it to the endocrinologist or use the patient portal just to talk to the endocrinologist without your child around especially a seven year old and see what the endo has to say. How many kids in your practice have called an ambulance three times in the last month? Or, you know, whatever he's really worried about? Or if this happens, does it mean that because we've talked about this, most of us kind of make up stuff? Because we don't know. And we haven't, we're afraid to ask.   Moira McCarthy  15:15 That's great advice.   Stacey Simms  15:17 Well, sure you gave it to me.   Moira McCarthy  15:20 But really, that is what I always did is just sort of went to the endo and said, This is what I'm worried about now. And then they would tell me why I didn't need to be worried. You have to trust your medical team to do that. And this, dad's probably going to have to think a little more than most of us have to because of what he's seen, you know, and then I know adults with type one who, when they're super low, prefer to call EMTs and have them come to their house and treat them and then leave without going to the hospital. I don't get it. But I know people who say they'd much rather do that than use glucagon,   Stacey Simms  15:53 but I'll try to follow up with them. I you know, I'm in touch with the chapter. So we'll kind of circle around and see if we can find out what happened there. But it is it that's a that was a unique one. When I saw that, I thought oh my goodness. You know, I definitely wanted to ask about it. We got another question. Heather says my son just started his first job. Congratulations. Should I have him give the employer a quick reference emergency form? Or is that not necessary?   Right back to our conversation in just a moment. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Gvoke Hypopen.  and almost everyone who takes insulin has experienced a low blood sugar that can be scary. A very low blood sugar is really scary. And that's where Gvoke Hypopen comes in. It's the first auto injector to treat very low blood sugar Gvoke Hypopen is pre mixed and ready to go with no visible needle. That means it's easy to use in usability studies. 99% of people were able to give Gvoke correctly. I am so glad to have it. Find out more go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the Gvoke logo. Gvoke shouldn't be used in patients with pheochromocytoma or insulinoma visit Gvoke glucagon dot com slash risk. Now back to my conversation with Moira. The question is from a parent asking whether her child needs an emergency diabetes form at work. And this is a young adult, this isn't you know, a 14 year old kid that she's driving to,   Moira McCarthy  17:22 you'd say of course, my son just got a job. So he's only 16. But I consider 16 old enough. So I can think that if you are old enough to have a job, even if it's babysitting for people, you are old enough to make that decision yourself and speak for yourself. I think parents should advise their children about what they think might be a good idea. But at the end of the day, that's up to the kid in the work situation. What my daughter would do is just kind of nonchalantly when she started, she worked at a country club catering and in the pro shop. And then she was a bank teller. And what she did is after she started just like you had meters then now I guess it'd be your CGM just pull it out and say, Oh, you know, you guys just so you know, I've type 1 diabetes. If you see me doing this, don't worry about it. If I need anything, I'll let you know. That's it.   Stacey Simms  18:12 That's funny, because that's what happened to Benny. He just got a job as a grocery store clerk, he's stocked shelves, is that what it's called? He stock shelves. You know, it didn't make a big deal about diabetes. I don't think he even told them before he started. And then when he was going a little bit on the low side, and he took out his pump where his CGM numbers are and said, Hey, I'm going low. I've type one, I just need to sit down for a minute, you know, I'll keep you posted. I'll let you know if I need anything. And it was he said it was really easy. And of course, I was thinking to myself, the worst amount that I am like, it didn't even occur to me to, like, fill out a form or let them know. I mean, he does take care of it. And I'm lucky that way. But I'm curious and I don't I'm not as familiar with the ins and outs. I want to say legally, but with adults starting these jobs, full time, things like that. Are there ways that they should be disclosing or anything they should be saying or do you think it really is just up to their comfort level? I guess I'm just thinking about, you know, American Diabetes Association guidelines, that kind of stuff.   Moira McCarthy  19:13 Yeah, it depends on the job. If you have a job that you're only allowed to like they give you a policy that says you may only eat and drink food during your break and your break is 15 minutes at the same time every day then you need to have a discussion with your boss and say Just so you know, I'm gonna have a tube of glucose tabs in my pocket and and I may look at my CGM and pop one in my mouth but that this is why and, and the rest of it. I think Maren always felt that like if she was at work and she felt like she was gonna throw up she wouldn't have had a form filed in case she's ever sick. So she just sort of treated it that way. Now as an adult working now, Lauren just goes about her day. You know, the people she works with all know she has diabetes because they work with her, you know, and it just Sort of this job now it actually was part of the interview process because she works in prescription drug pricing, you know, so they know but for a teenager, my opinion, I let Lauren make her choice and how she did it. And that's how she did it. I do think that the people you work for and you work with do need to know you have type 1 diabetes, they don't need to know what your basil is, or you know how to give glucagon or anything like that, but they need to know, right? Just for some weird reason, you know, for whatever they need to know. But I don't think you need to go deep into it. Unless it's a very unusual job that has really restricted than I know, like, for instance, cashiers in the front of supermarkets By the way, Benny's not a shelf, stocker. He is a manager of product traffic.   Unknown Speaker  20:48 Oh, yes.   Moira McCarthy  20:51 I'll let him know resume. But if you're a front cashier, in other words, that's one that you may have to say to your boss, hey, listen, I just need to keep a juice box here and something here. And if I feel low, I'll just eat if I need to stop, I'll, you know, I'll buzz you. And let's just let the other staff know. So they don't think I'm getting some special treatment or something like that.   Stacey Simms  21:11 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I'll link up any kind of advice, legal stuff for people who really do, as you said, you have a job where they can't leave their post, that sort of thing. I assume people like that would probably know what to do at this point. But I'll link that up anyway, just for some good info there. And I'll tell Benny, that it sounds like he got a promotion, he can tell me more about bananas. And it,   Moira McCarthy  21:34 you know how much things are stocked. And when they're stuck.   Stacey Simms  21:37 It's been really fun. And the timing has been really good. Just as a quick aside, he really just started and we let him because of the vaccines coming out, frankly. So yeah, when he got the job, we knew there was going to be a training period, and he wasn't gonna be in the store right away in North Carolina, it just worked out so wonderfully, that they opened up to grocery store workers. So as soon as he got the job, he was able to get the vaccine. And you know, even though he's not on the store floor all the time, I am certainly much more comfortable. He is now had both, and   Moira McCarthy  22:08 I would want that even my kid didn't have diabetes, just because yeah, goes to the supermarket. You know,   Stacey Simms  22:13 yeah, I'm thrilled. And he's so happy. It's a it's a nice thing. You know, when your kid gets really their first job,   Moira McCarthy  22:19 it's good for them to practice to how to be able to just sort of deal with diabetes on the run while they're working. Do you know what I mean? Like, I never had a problem with Warren thinking, gee, I feel low and popping a glucose tab into our mouth or taking a bite of something and not being like I have to stop everything. Because I feel low. Some people do have to, and they'd have to deal with it differently. But for her, she knew she was going to land in a high pressure job where she's running around all the time. And certainly she has. So now she's glad that she most of the time can just go with the flow with it.   Stacey Simms  22:54 You just got to make sure you just eat a lot of bananas and let them know if he's low.   Unknown Speaker  22:59 Just tell him to the whole banana don't take bites.   Stacey Simms  23:05 Okay, so I actually have a question for you. All right. This is because as we're focusing here on Benny some more this summer, COVID permitting, he is planning to go with his summer camp. This is the camp where he's gone every summer since he was eight years old for a month. And at this age, they go for a month to Israel. So awesome.   Unknown Speaker  23:27 I know. I'm so excited for him. I'm crossing my fingers for Benny. Right. Oh,   Stacey Simms  23:32 so again, COVID permitting, we have been talking to the group, this is not their first child was type 1 diabetes, who will be going he's pretty easy going. But we are going back and forth on what would I like? What would they like my biggest concerns that we are addressing? And I don't know the answer to really is just about how much does he need to take with him every day? I don't because they're on the move the entire time. I don't know if there's like a home base where they'll have all the stuff or if he needs to take everything every day. But that's neither here nor there. My question is for something like that, you know, knowing that everybody does things differently. But would you have any kind of non negotiables for a teenager traveling with a group abroad or somewhere far away for a whole month?   Moira McCarthy  24:19 So when Lauren only went for two weeks when she was a cig go to Israeli that she went to Washington DC, which is the first time she went really far away for two weeks, and there was no nurse or anything. We talked to the endocrinology team, and she came up with a plan that she felt she could be comfortable with. And the endocrinology team was okay with that. So I said that's fine. And part of her plan was I mean, there was no share them. But part of her plan was she did not have to report numbers to me through the day and it worked out fine. I mean, I don't know what her blood sugar's were when she was there, but I know she came home and had a great time. The thing that I could say let's go to the extreme and then go backwards from that. So let us you're not negotiable, as you have to see as numbers on your phone all the time. We've talked about this before, you don't know what he's doing, you don't know what the temperature is, you don't know what he ate for breakfast that day, it's only going to get in the way of the experience, if you want to manage it. And I know you don't. But if you wanted to manage his diabetes remotely from America while he was there, it would be crazy for both of you. And he doesn't need that. So I would say that pick a time every day, that would work for him, that isn't too awful for you, your time but if there's a time, that sort of works, maybe he could check in at that time every day. And if they're in the middle of something, you can just have a phrase that he sends you to say, super busy. Everything's great. Love you. Sure I can talk tomorrow, you know what I mean? Or something like that? Because that would just make you feel that the thing about this that I think is super good is his camp friends are going with him, right? Absolutely. Yeah. He's in an environment where everybody already knows and supports everything he needs. So it's almost like you're taking the camp, that you work so hard to help him be comfortable with me he in the camp works so hard with and just moving it to Israel for a month. And that makes it kind of extra good. Right? Definitely everyone around him if he was going alone, and he hadn't met anyone, and it was all new. Maybe I'd have some other suggestions. But given that, and I think you can do it, Stacy, I think you can let them go. And you know what, this will be great practice for college.   Stacey Simms  26:39 Well, we I will be calling you every day, we actually have one non negotiable that we have always had for Canada. And that is, and it is not actually up to him. It's up to the people with him. And that is if he throws up more than once in 24 hours. I get a phone call.   Moira McCarthy  26:56 Oh, absolutely. I wasn't even thinking of sickness. Yes. Right. Right. That's I know you were thinking Oh, like with my kid without diabetes. Oh, good point. I   Stacey Simms  27:05 was always thinking that, you know, we're really fortunate. I'm going to knock wood or something that you know, Penny doesn't get ketones very easily. Now, I've just jinxed myself.   Moira McCarthy  27:13 All right, good lord.   Stacey Simms  27:15 I'll say a Kenahora, too. But I don't know why I said that. But but to illustrate the point that I've always felt that that's the biggest danger when I send him away. It's just camp is dehydration. People not recognizing high blood sugars, you know, having an issue like that. And I figured that's something to look out for. So that's my really my only non negotiable. The other thing that he is asked because I asked, you know, he made he made the plan more he made the plan for this that we're proposing   Unknown Speaker  27:43 grasshoppers   Stacey Simms  27:45 is, he said, he's probably gonna forget stuff, if he's got a bag that he's got to be repacking every couple of days. So the call that you mentioned that daily check in, he wants it to just be a photo of his backpack.   Unknown Speaker  27:57 Oh, that's brilliant.   Stacey Simms  27:58 And just say, Hey, mom, my stuff is here and knowing that he has to text me about it every day. And I think we'll do it before he goes to bed because it is a seven hour difference. Yeah, he first proposed Why don't we do it at breakfast every day? And I'm like, because   Moira McCarthy  28:10 it will not be breakfast time here. That's right. You know, what you might want to think about is how and you can do this now? How can he scaled back what he needs to carry every day when they go up? What can stay in his suitcase? Like if you could get a pen with some rapid acting insulin? Yeah. Then if his pump site goes bad, even if he's gone for the whole day, he doesn't need a site change and stuff like that, unless he really wants   Unknown Speaker  28:38 No, no, that's a good point. I think he'd be into that.   Moira McCarthy  28:40 Yeah, like, minimize what he needs to carry during the day, and then keep the other things there. And they may also if they're staying in the same vehicle, that's bringing them around to places you may be able to have him tuck a little bag into like the trunk of the bus or whatever, like ask the bus driver, can you just put this somewhere and have like, a couple sites in it or something?   Unknown Speaker  29:06 Give us a gift?   Unknown Speaker  29:06 They use the same? Yeah, yeah, we'll   Stacey Simms  29:08 find out. All right, I'll work back I like that I   Moira McCarthy  29:11 left. Those are both reasonable. Both reason things, you know, and that's super cool that he's thinking ahead about and understands what he might, you know, who doesn't forget things, I pull out the driver three times and pull back and now my sunglasses Oh, my wallet.   Stacey Simms  29:26 I had to come back into my house. I was running a quick errand. And I had forgotten one of the errand had a package in the house to send back so it happens all the time.   Moira McCarthy  29:34 So I think something for people who are listening to think about if you have a young child, and you're thinking, Oh, I'll never be able to do that. This is why as they're growing, it's really good practice to give them age appropriate freedom, whether it's play in the backyard on the swing set while you're not out there, you know, or ride their bike around the block with their friend at the appropriate age. I'm saying And as you let these things happen, you work your way up to sending your kids is,   Unknown Speaker  30:07 you know what I'm saying?   Moira McCarthy  30:10 Go from constantly overseeing it for years and years and years to bang, letting them go on something like this. And that's why you've got to kind of poke at it. And it's not as much for them as it is for us parents, because we have to get past our own Nxd. And that's how you do it. So you've done that. And now, Ben is going to reap the rewards of your being willing to put aside your fear for him so many times over all these years. Yeah, you. Well, thank   Stacey Simms  30:37 you more. And I'm glad you said it that way. Because one of the interesting statements that people make to me, and I know you get it, too, as well. Wow, I could never do that. Because I would worry, as though I'm not right. All kidding aside, the first couple years, I sent him to this camp, I would wake up at four o'clock in the morning, the first week or two that he was there. And I would wake up thinking that's it. He this was the stupidest thing I ever did. This is terrible. What was I thinking? And he's fine. Right. And so it was, it's our fear. And it's, it's still there. You've heard me kind of groaning over here about going and making all these noises. I am nervous, but I know I have to let him go. So it's it is about it really is about facing those fears. And little by little, I will never forget the first time I let him go play in the snow.   Moira McCarthy  31:24 That was terrifying. Oh, God, everybody goes low in the snow. So the way I always say it, and I know some people think it's hokey, but I don't care. I'm a hockey person. So whatever is, in my opinion, the most loving thing a parent can do is to set aside their own fears on behalf of their child's success and happiness. Yeah, within reason. You know, if Ben, he wanted to try lighting a barn on fire, I'd be like, check your blood sugar first. Just kidding. But you know what I'm saying? Yes,   Stacey Simms  31:54 you got it, you just got to do it. And it's, it feels really hard. And it's scary. But when you start to get to the other side of it, it's wonderful, right? It's what it is wonderful it is. I know that sending him to this camp and diabetes camp was great and helped him in different ways. But sending him to this camp, I think has been the seminal experience of his childhood, it has given him a gift of independence, friends, confidence, troubleshooting, you know, crazy things have happened. And they don't necessarily call me because he manages it with the help of the people that are there.   Moira McCarthy  32:33 And think of how much easier it would have been for you to just say that you can't do that. I know your sister went but you can't because you have diabetes, and instead of him moving toward this independent, funny, awesome young adult who's gonna thrive in life, he'd be not doing the things he wants to do, because he never would have experience knowing that he can, right. Yeah, good for you.   Stacey Simms  33:00 Oh, I'm only I'm only quiet because I'm very superstitious. Moira, and I know it's silly. But I worry, we have to move on from saying nice things about Benny.   Moira McCarthy  33:10 I have a friend whose daughter went to South Africa on an exchange program and had type 1 diabetes. And when she was there very far away from her parents, she had to have her appendix out and it was fine. Everything was fine. Her parents didn't get on a plane and fly one of the adults who oversaw the thing stayed with her. The hospital knew type 1 diabetes, everything was fine. Wow.   Stacey Simms  33:34 Okay. All right. I'm gonna start wrapping us up here, Moira, but before I do, you posted something really interesting the other day and I want to ask you about it you spotted? Well, I'll let you tell the story. But you spotted an adult who looked like she needed help with a low blood sugar. So tell me about what happened.   Moira McCarthy  33:51 So it's really strange. I've been swimming a lot. And I go to deep water exercise class. And so in deep water, exercise class, you you're exercising, but you're kind of looking around. And this pool is huge at my club and way, way, way over the other side, in the shallow end, where they do physical therapy and little kids swimming lessons and stuff. Just on the corner, my eyes saw this woman and it was like, she looks kind of wildly funny, you know. And then I saw who I realized is the physical therapy instructor go over and kind of take her by the shoulders and bring her and sit her down on the step in the pool in the water. And I thought I don't know why she just had the book. I thought she's having a low blood sugar. And then I saw the club manager come in with a can of juice and she opened it up stick a straw on it and they were handing it to her and I thought oh, that's what it is. It's a low blood sugar. But as I watched the woman struggling with it, and clearly wishing that it wasn't happening, she wasn't showing that visibly and some of it I may have just been projecting, you know, but I watched it and and I didn't go over to offer help because I was so far away and I I had feeling that this woman just didn't want attention, but she needed attention. And what struck me as I watched it and thought about it was, I had, you know, it's been 24 years since Lauren was diagnosed, my family is raised millions of dollars and we're not wealthy people. I do the ride every year, I used to do the walks, you know, I speak at places, and sometimes you just feel like, Lauren seems like she's doing really well, maybe, maybe I should move on. And I don't ever really feel that way. But just sometimes you're tired, you know. And when I watched her, I thought, I have let myself forget that even though my daughter is down in Washington, DC with an incredible job, thriving career, thriving life, that's her reality. You know, it's easy for me to forget that because it's not my body. And it's not my mind, and it's not my diabetes. But it was a stark reminder to me that I will never regret raising my daughter to be tough about this and just live her life and not let it stop her from what she's doing. But I need to remember that raising her to do that doesn't mean that it's easy, right?   Unknown Speaker  36:16 Yeah. Oh,   Moira McCarthy  36:17 I feel renewed. I feel like I can't stop. I have to keep trying because it doesn't go away. And I guess the way that I said it a long time ago that I'm remembering right now is my daughter's fine, but this is not okay. And I think watching that poor woman, not wanting to be getting the attention not wanting to be low trying to get things going get when in my head. I'm like, No, you need protein. Diabetes mom, we found out in my in my exercise group, and she was to glaze over and I'm like,   Stacey Simms  36:55 well over that. Peanut Butter crackers in your bathing suit.   Moira McCarthy  36:59 I think that watching it was sort of a gift to me because it reminded me to respect the disease and to keep doing everything I can to make it better for all those people like that woman and like my daughter and like Benny and like everybody else, right? Yeah. Yeah.   Stacey Simms  37:17 I'm so glad you shared that. It's just you know, those reminders are so important along the way. As you know, as you said, Lauren is an adult she's not at home. It's wild to think about I still can't believe Benny's driving. 16 It's, I know we only got a couple more years before college.   Moira McCarthy  37:34 Yeah, Lauren's moving into her own apartment she's lived with her old college roommate said she got out of college. Oh, wow. Next week, she will be living completely alone for the first time in her life. And she's very excited about it. So it is   Stacey Simms  37:49 good for her. And I'm sure she'll have the the juice and the crackers with protein. You need a protein? Well, normally, this is where we would say Where are you going? Where are you speaking, but we're getting there. We're getting there. And later this year, perhaps but it's I think it's still fun. I know really sick of virtual, but I gotta say I love the connection. And I'm doing something really fun with my local chapter, which is now a couple of states my local jdrf chapter. And that is later on in April, and I'll be posting about this on social. They're doing like a spirit week. It's a very clever, fun idea that every day is a little different. And I am hosting a big trivia game at the end of it. And I'm very excited. It's all gonna be diabetes trivia, but nothing, you know, nothing stodgy or boring. And I'm really excited to do this and I hope I get to do it for more chapters.   Moira McCarthy  38:41 That's a great idea. That'll be a lot of fun today and I help tape the upcoming virtual gala for my chapter in new languages now the Greater New England chapter so I'll be speaking a little in that but mostly that night will be about martinis from home and fitting perfect titles and stuff like that. But um,   Stacey Simms  39:01 you have Martini earrings, or did I make that up?   Moira McCarthy  39:04 You make that up that I may have had them and I don't remember either. You know, me and my whimsical jewelry?   Stacey Simms  39:10 No, I know what it was when we did last summer we did Hollywood Squares for friends for life. And you had a martini but you   Moira McCarthy  39:18 had I was acting like Joe and morally but it was water just so you have a martini at 9am never   Unknown Speaker  39:30 never before 1030   Stacey Simms  39:31 see I'm just a I'm just a frustrated game show host one of these days maybe I'll get to do my dream career. I'll digital and runaway to do card sharks.   Moira McCarthy  39:42 Dr. Oz can do. I don't see why you can't move Don't get me started.   Stacey Simms  39:46 Well worth Thank you so much. It's always so much fun to to check in and I appreciate you answering one of my questions this time around.   Moira McCarthy  39:56 It's the first time I've ever answered a question for you right   Unknown Speaker  39:59 ah   Moira McCarthy  40:00 It's good to talk to you again. Stacey. We'll do it again soon.   Announcer  40:09 You're listening to Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  40:14 As always, I will link up Moira’s blog and more information, how you can find her books and all of that good stuff. And I should mention here, you know, we talked about camp a lot and how great non diabetes camp can be for your kids. I am taping an episode. I hope to have it out next week, but if not, it'll be out the following week. I want to be quick on this because camp is coming up or at least you know, Camp registrations. If you if you're doing sleepaway camp, they may have already closed but I want to talk about camp. So I'm working on an episode or roundtable with parents who have sent their children like I did to non diabetes, sleepaway camp, and adults who went to non diabetes sleepaway camp as kids so we can get some best practices in and more of those non negotiables, like I mentioned in my chat with Moira. And that should be out. Like I said, I really hope next week, but if not the week after that, all right innovations coming up, we're going to talk about a new option for glucagon. And a new step forward for some folks that we've talked to previously here on the show. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dexcom. Dexcom has a diabetes management software called Clarity. Do you use this for a very long time, I mean, longer than I'd like to admit, I thought it was something that just our endo could use. But you know, it's really helpful. And now I actually have it on my phone, you can use it on both the desktop or as an app, it's an easy way to keep track of the big picture. I find I use it when we're adjusting things, you know, which I felt was not stopped there for a while. But at age 16 Benny is kind of leveling out on growth and changing basil rates, at least for now. And Clarity really helps us see longer term trends. The overlay reports help context about his glucose levels and patterns. And when you share the reports with your care team, it's easy for them to get a great idea of what's going on and how they can better help. managing diabetes is not easy, but I feel like we have one of the very best CGM systems working for us find out more go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the Dexcom logo.   In our innovations segment this week, the US FDA has approved a new glucagon option they have approved Zegalogue. I hope I'm saying that correctly, is an auto injector and a prefilled syringe. And it is pretty amazing that we went for so long, I mean pretty much until a year or two ago with one option. And now we have three. So Zegalogue joins Baqsimi the nasal glucagon and the Gvoke Hypopen which is a sponsor of this program, you heard me talking about them earlier. Zegalogue will be available in the US later this year in June for ages six and older diabetes mine has a terrific article as they always do on Zegalogue with all the information, although not a Pronunciation Guide couldn't find that anywhere. But apparently they had initially thought to launch this as brand name hypo pal, but they dropped the name I'm my guess is that it was too close to hypo pen, you know the Gvoke Hypopen from Xeris. And, you know, I wonder if I'm not only marketing, but there were other concerns about that. This round of glucagon is also being used, interestingly, for the investigative clinical studies with beta bionics. That's the islet pump, the dual chambered insulin glucagon pump from Ed Damiano that we have talked about for a very long time here, but this is the brand of glucagon that they have been using. That is not to say that they couldn't use another one. So the next time we talk to the iLet folks, and I've been working on that we've been going back and forth on scheduling and the like, but we'll get it and I will definitely ask them about this. It's also worth noting that Zealand, the company behind this, if I haven't mentioned them yet, that Zealand and Xeris the hypo pen folks are both studying a mini dose version. This would be small doses of glucagon, where you're trending lower, you don't need the emergency. A lot of parents use this for stomach bugs. Maybe adults too. I'm more plugged into the parenting side of things. I know insulin camps have done this so many glucagon is a popular off label use. It's definitely not FDA approved. But these two companies are now already studying how they could launch a mini dose version probably a couple of years away. interesting to think about. I want to bring you up to date on another story we've been following last August we talked about which year from invincible. This was a website an app to help caregivers to help schools to help nurses and teachers and I guess what you'd call non healthcare personnel. You know, the the front desk Secretary that's who was in charge of any diabetes for many times when there was no we had no full time school nurses elementary school, how to teach all these people how to better support their students. Bob was diagnosed with type one when he was 18 years old. He said he was totally unprepared to deal with everything and he built invincible, he says to make it easier for kids to grow up with type one. And he just launched a new app. And it is fourteens invincible helps teens living with type one, build independence and have fun doing it. I have not taken a look at this, I apologize, I will see if any will take a swing through it. But we put it in the Facebook group if you'd like to take a look. And I love what he's doing here. Teens are tough man. I'm interested to see what the reaction is on this. What he does have on his side is that he has taken into consideration feedback, input, all that stuff from actual real teams. And you can see some of that and some of their feedback on the website. So this is not just somebody kind of coming into the community and thinking they know what to do. This is someone from within the community who has a lot of experience that has taken a lot of time to ask the right questions, and to admit what they don't know. So I'm excited to see what happens with invincible and Bob, I wish you all the best. Hey, next week, we are back to good news. I need your Tell me something good stuff, send it into Stacey at Diabetes connections.com. post it in the Facebook group or just DM me on social media. I'll be asking because I love to share your good news stories. Stacey Simms  46:12 Before I let you go a couple of things to look forward to in the next couple of weeks. I mentioned the trivia I'm doing for the JDRF chapter here in Charlotte. I guess it's now the Carolinas chapter. And I'm really excited to do that. I am just a frustrated game show host as you know if you've listened to some of the silly episodes we've done over the years. I love this my college radio station group, which sounds a little weird, but we have been doing trivia once a month since I don't know since the pandemic started maybe since last March. That's a really tight knit group. We have a reunion every year. And it's just so much fun. I am so bad at that trivia because it's all like 90s music. It's it wasn't a news radio station. Although it did have news. It was a hot AC pop station, adult contemporary music for those of you not up on the radio lingo. And I was there in the late 80s, early 90s. But it's just really fun. Anyway, long story short, I'm doing a modeling my trivia over that good time I have with them every month and it's going to be a lot of fun. It's not going to be scientific diabetes questions. So if you can join me for that if you're in our local area. If you think that sounds fun, and you'd like me to come to your chapter or group, I will be more than happy to do this for you. And we'll have a lot of fun. All right, thank you, as always to my editor John Bukenas from audio editing solutions. Thank you for listening. I'll be back in just a couple of days with a classic episode, so I hope you can listen then. Until then be kind to yourself.   Benny  47:38 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms Media. All rights reserved. All rounds avenged

Something we aim to deliver here on the SuperFeast podcast is a sense of health sovereignty and empowerment through diverse conversations. We hope to bring you inspiring individuals, their stories, and valuable knowledge that empowers your mental/physical/spiritual wellbeing. With all of us feeling the ripple effects of these unprecedented times, there has never been a better time to talk about mental health practices to keep us healthy as a society and better equipped to deal with stress. We hope you all tune in for today's podcast as Mason sits down with mental health-focused naturopath Monica Shepherd (The Organic Naturopath), facilitator of The Connected Brain course, for a conversation around mental health and adaptogens. Monica unpacks the healing nature of these powerful herbs and their ability to improve neuroplasticity, behavioural disorders, and all facets of mental health. An empowering conversation, shedding light on a subject that sometimes feels a bit heavy to pick up, Monica reminds us that not only are our brains designed to survive in life, but also to thrive.      That’s an incredible reality to realise- the odds are in our favour. Thanks for bringing this positive energy and reminding us what adaptogens are doing for our HPA, our general health, and our capacity to thrive.   -Mason Taylor   Mason and Monica discuss: Addiction healing. Balancing the HPA axis. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Healing trauma through adaptogens. Adaptogens for children with trauma & anxiety. What happens in the body when we experience trauma. EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitation technique). Adaptogens for mental illness. Amygdala balance through adaptogens. How adaptogens enhance brain neuroplasticity. Adaptogens for the liver and lymphatic system.    Who is Monica Shepherd? Monica Shepherd known as The Organic Naturopath is a trained naturopath and nutritionist who specialises in all things mental health and is currently undertaking a Masters in Mental Health. Her goal as a practitioner is to be both practical and balanced in her approach, whilst striving to undercover solutions to a pandemic of disconnection and mental health symptoms through a combination of science and traditional knowledge.    Resources: Monica's website ( The Organic Naturopath) Instagram (The Organic Naturopath) SuperFeast Adaptogens Ashwagandha - Your New Best Friend To Beat Stress    Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Mason: (00:02) All right. We're on, Monica. Thank you so much for joining me.   Monica Shepherd: (00:06) Thank you for having me.   Mason: (00:10) How long have you been up in the Northern Rivers since you've moved up from Victoria?   Monica Shepherd: (00:14) Just before Christmas, so it's still new, but it feels like forever.   Mason: (00:20) Next time we're going to get you in. If you're in the Northern Rivers, have to come into the podcast chamber.   Monica Shepherd: (00:28) I'm looking forward to this chamber. Wow, I love that word.   Mason: (00:33) It's a little dank at the moment, but I think this year we'll actually work on it. Not dank, just daggy, is probably the better word. You're not missing much, other than for us to be face-to-face, but that is okay. I'm still excited that you're out of Victoria and in the Rainbow Region.   Monica Shepherd: (00:54) Yes. Me too.   Mason: (00:55) Thanks so much for reaching out. I really want to hear about your master's that you're doing around mental health. Of course, you're a naturopath, you come with that angle. You're already dealing with a whole variety of mental health issues in-clinic from a naturopathic standpoint, but can you just tell me what made you go in this direction of your master's? I'm so stoked that you reached out because it's been so long since I've really made the connection around adaptogens, medicinal mushrooms and mental health issues and them being included in the process of reducing symptomatology, at least. I'm really excited to hear all about it.   Monica Shepherd: (01:38) Well, I mean, look, the research, as we know, is always evolving, so you've probably come at a good time to get excited about it again. But for me, personally, when I was doing my training as a naturopath, I was sitting in with a naturopath who had also trained as a psychologist and I was seeing some remarkable cases. So we were dealing with everything from children with severe ADHD, people with uncontrolled schizophrenia, people whose mental health disorders and issues, were just really impacting on their quality of life, and a lot of the time they had gone down a lot of routes and they were already doing all the right things, per se. So they were already seeing their psychologist or counsellor, they were already learning all those skills and their techniques, but their biochemistry just still wasn't quite correct. Obviously we're working with all your traditional things that you work with as a natural health practitioner. We'll really zone in on their diet, we'll help them with their nutritional deficiencies. But then what really got me excited is seeing how adaptogens can really help with their brain neuroplasticity.   Monica Shepherd: (02:53) As we know, a child's brain is able to adapt and change more quickly, but that doesn't mean that an adult's brain is not able to be tuned in on as well. I guess the difference is, as an adult, we're not deleting those connections in the brain or we're not adding to them, we're fine-tuning what's there, and that's where things like adaptogens can be really exciting. And as you probably know in your research as well, when we're helping someone on that basic level with their stress, then we're going to be helping with that response in the brain. And so, the things that I tend to see clinically and that I've had personal experience with, are things like post-traumatic stress disorder. So when someone has experienced trauma and that can be acute trauma, as we know. So for example, when you have a car accident, we're hoping that's a one-off experience and a one-off traumatic experience and it's not going to be something that's ongoing. But then you can get chronic trauma, so like domestic violence, for example, would be an example of trauma that was ongoing and didn't just happen once usually.   Monica Shepherd: (04:06) And so, well, is really interesting and what you know is that we're looking at, okay, so in post-traumatic stress disorder, how do these memories develop and how does this actually affect the body? Because physical and emotional pain are very different. I could see somebody who's broke their ankle playing sport, and as long as that event wasn't particularly emotionally traumatic for them, as soon as the ankle's healed, they're straight back playing their sport again and they're probably not going to have much feeling of anxiousness or low mood, et cetera, going forward. But you give someone an experience where it's emotionally traumatic, and then we are going to see some long-term side effects. We're going to see some anxiety related symptoms, simple things like being more nervous socially or finger twitching or issues sleeping, et cetera. So if we want to deal with that kind of trauma, we really need to understand what happens in the body when we experience this trauma, and what happens with emotional pain versus physical pain. The research shows a lot about the Amygdala, and we're looking at, okay, so here is our fight or flight response, but here is our ability to process fear, but also to process bliss.   Monica Shepherd: (05:36) So it really fascinates me. We literally have this part in our brain that is here for us, not to just survive in life, but to thrive in life. And if we can get this working and functioning really well, we are literally tapping into our biochemistry of bliss and our ability to process fearful experiences and emotions more effectively, and our ability as well, with what kind of memories are we going to develop around our trauma that we have experienced. So, as we know, long-term memory takes time to develop, so ideally, how we would want to help somebody with adaptogens in trauma is, they would already be taking them, because you don't know when acute trauma is going to happen. But with long-term trauma, I've really seen that the panacea here is patience and persistence. So patience and persistence and daily taking those adaptogens over time. And then we're getting that amygdala really balanced and we're helping not just with those anxiety-related symptoms that someone is experiencing, but we're helping with the memories that have been formed. It's such a fascinating and exciting area of research that's coming around. And clinically, it's really rewarding seeing how it can just support people.   Mason: (07:05) This is literally branching off from where I've left it in my understanding and saw adaptogens being used clinically for the amygdala. I like your pronunciation. Amygdala.   Monica Shepherd: (07:23) Oh, yeah. I'm glad you're a fan.   Mason: (07:24) It feels like a mandala kind of vibe about it.   Monica Shepherd: (07:28) Actually, that's the perfect description.   Mason: (07:32) Little almond-shaped mandala.   Monica Shepherd: (07:35) A little mandala in your brain, yeah.   Mason: (07:38) So, okay, you've said several things that I want to unpack. So the healing process you've associated and so now I'm assuming it's this healing process and allowing the amygdala to not get bogged down in repeating, say like an overly fearful or whatever other emotion, is a fearful emotion around the experience or the trauma and it goes through processing that so it can move back into, say more of a blissful state. And to have that, you then require a certain amount of neuroplasticity within your nervous system and your brain. The more neuroplasticity you have or the more plastic you are before going into a trauma, the better equipped you're going to be, psychologically and physiologically, to move through that process. Is that right?   Monica Shepherd: (08:32) Yeah, that is right. I guess there's two things to that as well, and the first thing is when we want to influence the brain, we definitely want to influence the nervous system as well as the adrenal, so when we're controlling the amount of cortisol that's being released and how balanced that is and what state our nervous system is, that's going to affect that brain response as well. So as we know, adaptogens are particularly useful, because the same way we can develop a mental habit, we can also develop a physical habit of being stuck in high cortisol or being stuck in a wired nervous system, and that will influence the brain's ability to bounce back, so to speak. And you're absolutely right when you say it's more ideal to already be taking adaptogens, because right after a trauma, that long-term memory hasn't been developed yet, so how long that trauma is going to last or how they're going to look back at it in say, three years, five years, 10 years, we can influence that so much when we interact with the brain right close to the trauma.   Mason: (09:47) I mean, already, I feel like I'm becoming more plastic. I don't know if you quickly want to explain neuroplasticity, because I just realised there's a lot of people that may not be on top of this topic. I mean, I remember I first heard about it after my mom had an aneurysm, which I'll explain that's where my understanding came from and I read Norman Doidge's book, The Brain That Changes Itself, and I was like, ew, plastic, I don't even want to know that word. But I just want to explain that to people.   Monica Shepherd: (10:18) It is a weird word and term when you think about it and I'd probably name it something different if it was me and myself, to give people a clearer understanding, but I think even the title of that book explains it really well. The Brain That Can Change Itself, right? And so, essentially, if we want to keep it really simple, that's exactly what neuroplasticity is. It's the ability of our brain to change itself and so we have this understanding that, as a child, the brain is obviously learning and it's really prime to learn and is able to be really adaptable and change. I guess a good example would be language learning. So we know, for example, children are much more prime to pick up second and third languages more so than an adult to the point where, if a child learns a second or a third language, they're less likely to have an accent in either of those languages. They're more likely to have a native accent, where an adult still absolutely has the ability to learn as many different languages as they want, but they're much more likely to have their native accent in all those other languages that they learn.   Monica Shepherd: (11:28) So we can see that there is a difference, but the exciting thing is that even after 25, so we're saying the average brain by 25 years old is pretty set, there are still ways we can influence those synapses. So there's connections that happen in the brain. And we can definitely fine-tune them and as we're talking about, well I want to call it the mandala in your brain now, you can absolutely influence the mandala in your brain. So we've been talking a lot about adaptogens which have really good research, and we know even, one of the research, for example of Buddhist monks or of people who are more socially connected, that that also influenced this changes in the brain, because the exciting thing is, we are built for bliss, we are built for social connection and we're physically, actually, built for this, and our brain is physically built to overcome these traumatic experiences that we experience and more than that, to have really deep connection.   Mason: (12:35) But what's interesting, just to get a little bit understanding that process. If there's neuroplasticity, which I always associate it with healing from traumatic brain injury, like brain injury or stroke or aneurysm in my mom's case, which was quite effective. They were like, she's going to be a vegetable, and she can still now laugh and still improve neurologically, even though it's nine years later and that's why lion's mane and a lot of the other adaptogens came into my range in the beginning in SuperFeast, because that was like, just wanted to pump mom full of them as well as everything else, utilising all these techniques. And so, it's associated with brain healing or kind of mental performance, right? So retention of information, languages, so on and so forth, so I had this, for me it had this intellectual potentiation association as well as the brain healing. I'm not good in any of those directions. I'm not a practitioner and I'm not a biohacker, one of those entrepreneurs that needs to be optimal all the time, even though I do in my own way. But just associating it here with having yourself being plastic within, able to create these synapses and these new pathways is going to, ultimately, do what we'll talk about in tonic herbalism and long-term adaptogen use, is make it easier to be yourself and flourish when you get to later life like 80 and 90.   Mason: (14:17) It's like, yeah, good, strong body and have a strong output, but if you're just stuck in projecting particular stories you have about the way life is or stuck in a particular trauma or fear or whatever it is, you're going, more likely, to be dysfunctional when you get into your older age and eventually get bogged down. I don't think people realise how hard it is, as you go along, if you stop going through this process, and this is what I want to get to, you were saying you get to give the bliss, but you have to go back through that trauma, so you're going to need to be able to have the capacity to... I don't know if it's reliving that fear through the amygdala or how it works when your body is functioning correctly, how that moves from fear to bliss as far as you understand. What are we actually supporting here with the adaptogens? Does the HPA axis kind of come in there as well a little bit?   Monica Shepherd: (15:20) Yeah, definitely the HPA axis comes in there as well, and I could see somebody who might have an anxiety-related disorder that they've had for a decade, for example. And the other interesting thing as well is that we know that anxiety-related disorders can lead into addiction as well, and so there's a really good example when you're meeting someone. It may be just a simple addiction. Well, what we would consider simple, like smoking cigarettes, for example, nicotine, and they could've had that addiction for 10 or 20 years. So being able to change that physically and emotionally is huge. So you're right in that with the emotional aspects, we do need to go back and feel that and that's where you get all those therapies like the EMDR for example, the Eye Movement Desensitation technique.   Mason: (16:13) That's an old Daoist technique, I believe.   Monica Shepherd: (16:14) Yeah. Look, I've used it myself, personally, and I found it really helpful and I've seen it really help for the clients as well, but you are right, they do need to, to some degree, go back and feel that trauma, but you're kind of just having a bird's-eye view, so you're not reliving it, you're just going back to heal it physically in the brain. But where adaptogens come in is that, with the HPA axis, like I was saying before, you will get an imbalanced cortisol habit. So, for example, instead of, as we know, cortisol rises in the morning, it's at it's peak usually mid-morning and then at night it is lowering again for sleep.   Monica Shepherd: (16:55) When somebody's had these anxiety-related disorders, in a lot of cases, a lot of people I see, it's more than a decade, it's more than 10 years, so I consider that quite significant and quite chronic as far as the habits are set in the body. Without adaptogens, even with all these techniques, I find it very difficult to get their cortisol doing what it's meant to be doing again and getting back to their own body's cycle and rhythm. So they could be having really high cortisol at night, for example, and then we've got somebody who's not resting easily, not falling asleep easily and certainly not in line with nature and the way their body would like to be. It's really fascinating, but I do find, without adaptogens, it's going to be really difficult to change that axis.   Mason: (17:49) I mean, just hearing that, if you can't get the axis back in line, essentially it's going to be like pushing a boulder up a hill to take that, I mean, from say like a feared state, where you're living that same rooted in, lack of a better word, the negative experience where that can then lead to a mental disorder if not dealt with or treated versus being able to slowly go through that process, and I assume 10 years, that's going to be a longer process, there's going to be more of a bundle like a fishing wire that's all...   Monica Shepherd: (18:23) Absolutely. Well we're going to see as well, if someone's had their HPA axis imbalanced that long, then it's very likely that it'll affect their thyroid or it's going to affect their hormones, and so we'll get all these secondary complications that have been switched on and developed by the immune system from having that high cortisol which has led to inflammation et cetera, but we always want to go right back to the root cause. But you're right. It does take time and in chronic trauma, you definitely do want to be using adaptogens consistently, daily, as a daily habit, and you want to be doing that for a considerable amount of time. And that becomes the panacea, that becomes the cure, unfortunately is being really consistent, being really simple with your habits and that's where the magic comes over time. But I think you touched on a really important thing as well where you're saying, what happens if we don't try and balance that HPA axis? We could have somebody who's in therapy for 20 or 30 years and they're doing all those right techniques, they're doing that great talk therapy, but their biochemistry is still just not right, and so they're still going to struggle with some symptoms.   Mason: (19:43) You just saying that and acknowledging that and saying that the panacea is in that consistency and almost like there's a simplicity of that. We keep on coming back to it here, I think because we've been going hard for so long and I've been so extreme in the health realm for so long, and I like that extreme. But there's a chop wood, carry water energy and I talk a lot about extremism and especially when you're trying to heal. And you bring up again, if you're not doing very consistently well with diet, with exercise, hydration, not flogging yourself so that you go to the point of exhaustion and then needing to come back and then you're going and looking for, whether it's extreme therapies. Around here a lot of people going for deep-dive plant medicine ceremonies, long-term meditation retreats, and these things are so good, but then there's going to be nothing. And as you said, kind of I feel, it's what I see, you see that looping.   Mason: (20:46) If you don't have that foundation, you know you just have to get the basics done really well and it seems like bullshit when you have this blown-out-of-your-skull healing experience on whatever, some plant medicine, which is bloody amazing and I was there years and years ago. Nothing compares. It works to an extent, especially the first times and in therapy as well, but if you're not getting those basics right, you don't have a foundation to build upon and you just keep on looping and looping and looping in the long run.   Monica Shepherd: (21:18) Absolutely. I mean, the brain likes consistency and if we go into psychology as well, so does the ego, where the ego doesn't like too much change, and it likes what we're doing most of the time and even when we go into our gut microbiome. The gut microbiome is based on what we're doing most of the time. So they've even shown some studies that if your diet was consistent five to six days a week but you had one day where you were eating a bit differently, as long as you went back to that the next day, because you're mostly eating a certain way, it's not going to make a huge difference. What does make a difference is what we do consistently, all the time. And exactly, if we're having these big experiences where we're using these plant medicines, that's great, but how are we going to ground that into our everyday experience. And that's the thing with addiction healing as well, is these people have actually developed consistent habits a lot of the time, they're just not necessarily favourable ones. So how do we develop addictions or habits that are favourable and it does come down to what we're doing all the time.   Monica Shepherd: (22:34) So whether it's you're having your adaptogens in the morning or at night and you're kind of doing that consistently, it doesn't mean you can't sometimes have these bigger experiences or that things don't come up and you need to change things a little bit, but we're giving ourselves a foundation and a protective barrier so to speak, and that's really important because, like you were saying before, we don't really ever know when acute trauma is going to happen to us and we know that stress and slight trauma are actually really important for the human experience of learning and growing, so we don't necessarily want to avoid those either. We don't want to avoid all stress or we'll never learn. For example, you've got positive stress like when you're stressed before an exam or you're stressed because you care about your family, they're really good stressors to have. We don't want to get rid of those, but how are we going to prime our bodies so that we are still going to be blissful, we are still going to make good decisions? It's absolutely the foundation. Yep. And I love that you have come back to the simplicity.   Monica Shepherd: (23:45) And you probably understand a lot more as well, Mason, about how these mushrooms are in the forest as well, and I think when you understand that whole system and how everything is interconnected and how everything works, it gives us a really good idea of how these plants then connect with us as well.   Mason: (24:07) Yeah. I'd love to talk about that. I was just going to ask, when we talk about adaptogens, I know, clinically, there's a certain element of... But it's like with herbalism, this is one of my favourite quotes [inaudible 00:24:21] people go like, "Oh my gosh, there's thousands and thousands of herbs you talk about, which one should I take?" And then he's like, "Any of them." It's such a good entry, and everyone wants to complicate it. And with adaptogens, I know a lot of practitioners are like, you just take any. And sometimes I'm kind of like that. I refer to them a lot as tonic herbs from the Daoist tradition, but the same deal with adaptogens. You've generally got a lot of rope. It's kind of hard to go wrong with them, which is nice. I'm sure, as a practitioner, when you're looking at the intricacy of panels, you might be a little bit more sensitive than I am, but nonetheless, they're not very aggressive herbs and they were generally going to be regulating the body in a direction you want, say bar someone's got hyperthyroidism and take ashwagandha.   Mason: (25:15) I'm curious. I'll jump into the mushrooms because there's something there you've just reminded me of. But I'm curious what's in your arsenal, are you working with panels, are you working with the person, are you kind of looking at whether someone needs to come down or get regulated up a little bit more and that determines what adaptogens you use? Or do you find they're literally just generally regulating the body no matter what?   Monica Shepherd: (25:42) Yeah. They're great questions. So I think, firstly, you've touched on how safe they are, and I think that that's such a good thing to touch on quickly. I mean, withania for example, even breastfeeding mothers can take it, and there was a study that showed that it actually supported a baby's weight being at a really healthy range. So I thought that was really exciting. And then of course we've got reishi as well, which has got such positive results of when pregnant mothers consume reishi as well as how it affects their children's behaviour long-term. So as far as safety, I think that that's the great thing about adaptogens, is that they're generally really safe, regardless of what stage of your life you're in or what you're experiencing and children right to adults right to elderly can often take adaptogens as well. So that kind of makes it really available for everybody, but then as far as choosing what is ideal for somebody that I see, I'm going to consider all those personal factors as well. So I'm going to consider, where are they in their life cycle, what is it that they're trying to achieve that they really need?   Monica Shepherd: (26:57) So I might see somebody who is wanting more focus because they're learning, they're studying, they've got a lot going on, or maybe they've got a lot of circumstantial stress, so they've got these circumstances in their life that are stressful and they're not going to resolve any time soon. So they're being really wise and they're being really proactive and going, "Okay, what can I take?" So someone like that, then you know yeah, so I'm definitely looking at things like lion's mane, I'm definitely looking at ashwagandha, which is so beautiful at keeping us really balanced. But then there's such scope and adaptogens can be used for so many different conditions. So I'm going as well, yes, what's going on with their thyroid, is that a big goal right now? What's going on with their immune system? There's so much auto-immune disorders right now. And generally, I don't tend to use one herb by itself. So I tend to find that in combination we're getting that really beautiful personalised blend, but everything I do is always personalised. It does make it a bit difficult because we like to have, hey, there's this one condition and here's this one pill, but here we go for adaptogens going, ah, you can take it for 20 different things. Or you can take 20 different adaptogens and they're all going to be really useful, so how do you choose?   Monica Shepherd: (28:27) And I do think it becomes that combination of size and that combination of intuition as well, and I find people are generally pretty intuitive, so I like to give them a choice and I go, okay this is what I'm thinking. I think that you should be using a combination of this and that, and they'll go, yeah, that feels really good to me. And that's what works beautifully.   Mason: (28:53) What about for you personally? Have you got any favourites? I'm always fascinated. You're doing a master's, you've got a scientific brain and you have to be deep. You have to be thyroid deep into science. But you've obviously got an intuitive connection. And you talk about these adaptogens being just so good across the board or in general when you go back to the basics. It's the same as the Daoist principle. You get them in your lifestyle and you have a little bit daily and you keep yourself regulatory. I look at the population and look what you're saying around cortisol level, HPA axis, homeostasis, so that then we can process just being alive and just how effective these adaptogens are and they just go far out. They're here man. They're considered the herbs, the messengers from heaven. This is what they're called in Daoism. They're astrologically, they're celestial, connected to that immortal plane and they've come down and just helped not guide us, but work with us so that we can guide ourselves. And that's the more esoteric. They're just here with a mission with a vengeance, just trying to help us steady this ship. Bit of a ramble.   Monica Shepherd: (30:21) No, I love that. That was a good ramble. I like that. I'm definitely going to be saying to people from now on, "Would you like some of these messengers from heaven?" And seeing their reaction. How can you say no to that?   Mason: (30:36) Which heaven are you talking about? More of the immortal plane.   Monica Shepherd: (30:43) But at the moment I've been seeing a lot of children who, due to stress or trauma or anxiety-related disorders, are struggling to learn because we know that trauma affects our learning. And so one of the things for these children at the moment that's been really helpful, is a lot of them are having a little bit of lion's mane in their smoothie in the morning or in a bit of peppermint tea. You've probably got better combinations than me, but I've just found that most children will have some lion's mane in a bit of peppermint tea.   Mason: (31:12) Whatever works is the combo with kids. Whatever bloody works.   Monica Shepherd: (31:18) And then they're having some reishi at night before they go to sleep with some warm milk of some description and that's really supporting them. For adults, though, I can never go past anything with rehmannia and schizandra. They're still among my favourite herbs because we're supporting kidneys, we're supporting the liver detoxification pathways and then we're supporting energy levels as well. And so many people are coming off coffee, which is exciting. Although at least reducing their coffee from a ridiculous amount, like four coffees a day and they're trying to cut back. Then they're getting into the cordyceps, they're getting into the chaga and they're getting really good results. So I think that that's really practical and that's really exciting and that's a really good way that mushrooms can support the everyday person as well, because how many people are addicted to coffee? It's a huge amount. So practical and simple.   Mason: (32:24) Mushrooms and coffee. Every July. Or every winter in the Southern hemisphere. Let's just say we're really launching in America so we're like, "How do we deal with being a seasonally-driven company right now?" and education in two hemispheres, but that's a good challenge. You need to be adaptable. You need neuro adaptability, not plasticity. Neuro Adaptability. We always do a 30 Days of Jing. We just get off the coffee or reduce the coffee as a community. It's kind of like a create-your-own-adventure. We don't really mind if someone's like, "I can't get off coffee." It's like, cool, just bring in the Jing kidney.   Monica Shepherd: (33:00) I love those herbs.   Mason: (33:09) It ground the whole HPA axis, I find. I think people sometimes... And I relate to this. It's why the Jing herbs work so well, the kidney herbs work so well for me. You mentioned cordyceps, schizandra is a beautiful Jing herb as well, goji's in there as well. But they ground the whole process. I had an indigenous mate. I think I've told this story on the podcast. But we were talking about trauma and he didn't know the word amygdala, but he talked about this little part in your brain that was like a projector and it kept on projecting up the memory of the battle or the trauma and you just keep on reliving it and you just pulled called up. And he was like, so at that point, we need foods and herbs to kind of take you down and ground you. And I was like, that's the first step. I was like, yeah, that's the Jing herbs and you need to not be going and doing extreme healing therapies at that point, that continue to blast you up and out excessively. But he said the second part is when you go walkabout after a battle and you can't stop reliving it or after a death you can't stop reliving it.   Mason: (34:23) And he's like, you need to go walkabout. And he was saying the projector, which I'm kind of seeing as a stick amygdala just projecting up that memory, he's like, when you're walking along, whether you go walkabout by yourself in the city consistently, that's just what you do, go for a walk every day or when you're in the bush, you just go for days, weeks or months. As long as it takes. But you go and you look at the horizon with a soft gaze. And the way it works is, when you're in the city, you're so distracted that it just keeps on looping because it still seems like that's really important for survival, but when you go walking long-term, there's this relationship we have with nature that, whether you're looking at waves or the treeline slowly moving, your systems knows, as it's gazing at it, that you don't need to remember that wave breaking in order to survive. And so there's a symbiotic relationship where it almost plucks out this projection and you get to get the experience that this isn't real and get pulled out by the trees moving. And slowly but surely, it's a healing modality, but it's like taking adaptogens regularly. It's like the ultimate adaptogen for mental health.   Mason: (35:35) I kind of saw from his perspective is he just constantly walk and continues to work with you to make sure you subconsciously know that that's not real anymore, that's an interpretation, so that you can then, in your life, go and deal with the trauma. What you're saying is really kind of crystallising that a lot for me, I guess, in terms of [crosstalk 00:35:55].   Monica Shepherd: (35:54) That's really beautiful. And you're right. I mean, we've learned that these therapies like being in nature, that meditation et cetera, can change the amygdala. Well, the question is, a lot of people can't even do those things to begin with. When they're so wired up, the idea of having to sit in meditation or to walk in nature would be a bit confronting for them. I think that we can really support these people with adaptogens as well so that they're more likely to be able to consistently do these therapies, that the research is consistently showing does make a difference. I mean, like we were saying before, our understanding of the brain is always evolving and there's always new research and for as much as we know, there's still so little we don't know. But the exciting thing is that science is proving what we already know through traditional knowledge at the moment and that's exciting. It's going, okay, we already knew this, but now we have a study to show us that what we knew was actually valid.   Mason: (37:06) I appreciate it. I used to roll my eyes at that, but I appreciate the fact. That institution, that's what it's based on, that's its foundation, that's its religion. Not speculating. And sometimes that bites them in the ass and makes them very slow, but a lot of the time correlation doesn't mean causation, and that plays out a lot of the time. So I get it. It's interesting. So you're talking about adaptogens. With SuperFeast we're not here to treat anything, but we work with a lot of practitioners, we have a lot of practitioners on because they come in a lot of the time, either like yourself or a practitioner. At that point you can hit specific doses and specific herbs, but even just to step back and if you're just getting hydrated and moving and stuff so when you're dealing with these mental health issues, they can creep up on any of us. With the research backing and with the validation. You doing your master's on it, that's incredible. And I know more research coming out, it's interesting to see that, I saw on your website, there's alcoholism you've mentioned, there's addictions, which I think is incredible. I've always thought people dealing with addiction should be taking tonic adaptogens.   Mason: (38:26) And you've got Asperger's, schizophrenia, severe depressive disorder. It's really exciting, I'm sure it is for you as well, to see that this is possibly the way of the future and we're going to see adaptogens used in treatment and then just creating a platform that people can get a handle on these mental disorders.   Monica Shepherd: (38:49) Absolutely. You're absolutely right. It can happen to anybody. I mean, we know that there are things like genetic influence and we know that environmental and life factors can influence that on well. But depressive disorders, for example, anxiety disorders, can happen to absolutely anybody at any stage of their life, even somebody who's never experienced that before, because we know the biggest risk factor for developing a depressive disorder is long-term stress. And how many people do we see who are experiencing long-term stress? And they're not able to adapt and like I was saying before, I can meet people and I've been there myself, but sometimes we have circumstantial stress. So it's not something that we can control. The only thing that we can control are all those little things, like are we still going to stay hydrated, are we still going to keep control of our diet, are we still going to exercise, can we take adaptogens so that physically I can get through this long period of circumstantial stress and I'm less likely to develop a depressive disorder? And the science is there that that is the number one biggest risk factor. So, essentially, as simple as it sounds, if we want to be preventing mental illness, which is so common, we need to really be dealing with our stress, as a society, much better.   Mason: (40:13) You practise iridology as well, right?   Monica Shepherd: (40:17) Yeah. I have been doing iridology. It gets really fascinating. And there's different fields of iridology too, so you'll get different styles, you'll get your more [crosstalk 00:40:28].   Mason: (40:31) German or American.   Monica Shepherd: (40:31) Yeah, German or American. Pretty much. And the German is very much like, your iris doesn't change, this is just your constitution and who you are. And the American style is much more, you can detox, et cetera and your iris will change. And kind of what I've seen over doing iridology in time, is that the truth tends to be somewhere in the middle of that. So the truth is that it does change, but the iris is slow-changing, it's not quite as rapid as what we'd see in these people doing extreme detoxes, for the average person.   Mason: (41:03) I'm curious what you see. You get those bands that tell you the nervous system's wound up, so on and so forth. Reading the iris is what iridology is, for those of you who don't know. Very interesting. Again, I like it when practitioners like yourself are so rooted in the science and these techniques, which I'd say I definitely know works and are effective and have been a fan of it, just a hobbyist in that field, something that's such quackery. A lot of practitioners are like, it's such bullshit. And in the real Western medical world, it always makes my heart sing when I see the bridge being made in someone that's like, yeah, I'm in your world and then this is valid. But I guess that's the part of it with the scientific, in the science, that they'll throw the baby out of the bathwater because it's an adaptable system. It's a system that chops and changes and moves. Anyway, I love that you're into it.   Monica Shepherd: (42:12) Thank you. I definitely think, and I found over time, that we shouldn't limit ourselves. If we're having those really black and white beliefs when it comes to health or certain health systems, whether that's, like you said, some of the scientific approach of throwing all the babies out of the bathwater.   Mason: (42:30) The babies.   Monica Shepherd: (42:32) All the babies. How could they? We're limiting ourselves. We're limiting our ability to help people get well. It should just be, really, about what works and what's going to find people solutions, so we don't want to limit ourselves in any way. Iridology, what's really interesting is that, basically, straight up you're going to see what is somebody's physical genetic weakness. So for some people it might be their lymphatic system, for some people it might be hey, this nervous system is going to be something that I'm going to have to pay attention to nourishing in my lifetime. Some people it might be their digestive system. But that's really valuable information. It's going, okay, what am I going to need to focus more on in this lifetime to keep myself really well and well-functioning? And iridology does give that. The other interesting thing is that if you break an arm or you have surgery or you have some major illness, that will show up in the iris as well. So the iris is almost like a history map, so it's giving you history of major health things that have happened to you in your lifetime, but often from both of your parents and your grandparents as well.   Monica Shepherd: (43:55) It'll be interesting, because I might find someone who's doing iridology, especially when I've done whole families and I've done siblings, one sibling I can see clearly they've inherited more from dad's side of the family health-wise, and the other sibling has been more from mom's side. And that's not really based on how they look, like one might look like one parent or a grandparent or et cetera, but what have they physically inherited and what attributes do they need to be mindful of? So they're going to be almost their superpowers, but their weaknesses as well. So iridology for me, the American view would be, we keep looking at it, we keep detoxing it and it will change. In my experience, it can change a little bit. Like if I see somebody's got a lot of liver congestion, that can change in time, and the other thing as well is, it's not just the iris that we look at, though. We look at the sclera as well, so the white part of the eye, and that changes much more quickly than the iris so that we can see some liver signs in the sclera and if somebody was really working on their liver, we can see that sclera really clear up within three to six months and look remarkably different.   Mason: (45:05) With the usage of adaptogens, across the board, do you see a general change in your patients, you can say there's this aspect of the iris or the physiology always shifts, or is it always individual? I'm assuming it's probably somewhere between that.   Monica Shepherd: (45:23) It's somewhere in between that. I mean, if someone comes to me and they've got a lot of nervous system signs and they've got a lot of, what we call, cramp rings, spasm rings, they've got different names. With adaptogens I might see that shift from being, say, four rings in someone's iris to three or two over time, or not be so thick lines [inaudible 00:45:43]. But in some individuals, they may not have had any of those nervous rings to start with. It may be for them that we're focusing on the adaptogens that are more for the immune system and so we're seeing some lymphatic clearance. It'll take time, like I'm talking three to six months of continual, habitual supplementation with the adaptogens, and decent doses as well.   Monica Shepherd: (46:09) I mean, if we want to talk about, in science, I'm not going to tell somebody to take an eighth of a Panadol and expect that to get rid of their pain, so I'm not going to tell somebody, hey, take one dropper of your adaptogen or an eighth of a teaspoon daily and expect to see any results. Some people are very sensitive, but even so, it is going to want a decent dose as well and you're going to need to do it, with the iris it does take many months before you'd see a change. But it is very exciting when you do. Because of that reason, because we know it is so slow-changing, when you do see that change in the iris, it's pretty exciting.   Mason: (46:53) I mean, it is somewhat representing. It's either going to be extreme congestion and stagnation, then it's exciting just moving because that almost becomes your new constitution if you're not careful, right? You're probably just like, okay, cool, I've got a real hard, congested liver or I've just got lymph that just won't move and I just deal with this sticky, viscousy substance. That's me now.   Monica Shepherd: (47:21) Unfortunately, I would say that most of the population could definitely be supporting their liver and their lymphatic systems much more than what they are. And if we're talking about wanting to prevent chronic disease before it develops, in the same way that we're talking how can we support ourselves with stress and support ourselves so that we're limiting the emotional and physical reaction to traumatic events, then we really want to be proactive. Everybody should be doing some support for their liver and their lymphatic system. That should just go without saying, absolutely. Otherwise, other people are walking around with liver stagnation and a congested lymphatic system. That's very common.   Mason: (48:10) You don't want that as the constitution when you get [crosstalk 00:48:10].   Monica Shepherd: (48:10) No.   Mason: (48:15) What's your fave little liver tips? I know it's probably different for everyone. Just curious. I know it's one of those things you ask and a lot of the time we all know the really simple ones even, because I'm sure everyone could do with a reminder.   Monica Shepherd: (48:35) I love being simple and practical because, in my experience, people always go and I know I myself have been always going from wanting the extreme types of healing and then I've missed all the basics that I'm not doing and hoping it's something really crazy out there that I need to be doing. Liver, you can't go wrong with doing some kind of liver detox once a year where you're ideally not having any alcohol, your caffeine. Your sugar is a big one. So people will sometimes say to me, "I'm not consuming much alcohol, so my liver should be great." I'm like, no, but you know you are having all your simple carbohydrates, and essentially that's what alcohol is. It's sugar as well. I can see the other way around when someone's like, "I don't eat much sweets", but they're essentially drinking their sweets by the amount of alcohol that they're drinking. We want to bring it back so that we're limiting those sweets for a little while, but especially in Western societies as we are so obsessed with sweets and we're not getting much bitter foods in. So having that break and having those lemon juices in water, bitter dandelion teas, those bitter foods for a while. As simple as it is, that's really supportive for the liver.   Monica Shepherd: (49:50) And you do, I find in most circumstances, want to be taking some herbs that would go to support the liver pathways as well. Increasing those nutrients that the liver needs, so all your activated B vitamins and making sure you're getting good quality protein.   Mason: (50:07) How do you get the Bs in? Do you in the beginning supplement a complex and then move to dietary, or what's your approach?   Monica Shepherd: (50:15) For most people it would be starting a supplementary activated Bs and then focusing more on dietary in the long run. So your whole seeds, for example, your buckwheat, your quinoa, your pumpkin seeds, your avocados. Those kinds of foods that are going to really support you with high levels of B vitamins long term. If you're wanting to really support the liver short term, often diet is extremely beneficial and helpful, but it just takes time. So supplementation can be really important, along with the herbs as well, and along with protein. The liver really does need protein to help it detoxify in its different pathways. So not just when it identifies all the toxins that are in the body, but then when it's able to make them water-soluble and less toxic in the body and be excreted, we really do need protein. I find, across the board, all people of all different diets and lifestyles, generally are not eating enough protein when they first see me. So whether they're vegan or vegetarian, they're not having their legumes. If I meet someone who's a meat-eater, they're still, a lot of the time, eating a lot of processed carbohydrates and not enough good quality protein, and that's really going to cause issues with your liver and digestion over time.   Mason: (51:42) And lymph, are you focusing on a combo of herbs and movement practises? Which way do you swing?   Monica Shepherd: (51:52) Look, I mean, I definitely love the movement practises for your lymph and that's why it is important to do some movement as many times as you can. It doesn't have to be a long period of exercise, all movement for lymph is just so important. I love teaching people your simple lymphatic massages and tips that they can do for themselves as well, because that's just exciting because you can see, even with your face lymphatic massages, even with your breasts for example, for women, you can see how the lymph is moved within that five minutes of massage and those simple techniques. It kind of gives them something rewarding because you can see the results quite quickly. But for most people, they will need some support nutritionally as well. So it could be your bioflavonoids for example, your certain vitamin Cs can be really important, but then your herbs as well, most definitely.   Mason: (52:51) What are your fave lymph herbs? We got asked. It's good to kind of clear why everyone's focused on their lymphs, but for some reason, lately especially, everyone's just like, "What do I take for my lymphatic system?"   Monica Shepherd: (53:06) Okay. Something I'm really liking at the moment is red root. That is really important, and especially because I'm seeing quite severe auto-immune issues. Everything from scleroderma, where the skin tightens and the immune system is tightening all the tissues and that can have a really bad prognosis in the long run, so I'm like okay, this person does need some work on their lymphatic system so that we're getting that drainage system of the body completely clear. So red root is a favourite. You said it, ones like calendula, your high-potency echinacea. I'm definitely a snob in that. Unfortunately, with a herb like echinacea, there's such a big difference in what's available on the market and how it's processed, so there's only a couple of brands that I'll use. So they can be really important. Sometimes red clover as well, if it's fitting someone's full symptom profile, would also be something that I'd add in as well.   Monica Shepherd: (54:07) But, I mean, as you know, most of your herbs that people associate with the immune system are going to have some action on the lymphatic system and there's a really big range. Astragalus as well. So a nice mix like that, with all those combinations of herbs, can be really beautiful. But with the lymphatic system, that would be one area where I tend to go quite slow with people, because I've made that mistake as an early practitioner and being super keen and being like, okay, I want to fix this person in the shortest amount of time. And I could be dealing with someone who's got a lot of swelling and I'm going to give them these really high doses of lymphatic herbs, and of course it makes the swelling quite more severe to start with, and they're not particularly happy with me. So I do tend to go a bit slower with the lymphatic herbs.   Mason: (54:56) Then it's like, what do you do? Do you do Winston Churchill as they say? When you're going through hell, keep going.   Monica Shepherd: (55:04) It becomes a personal decision that we kind of have to work out. Some people would have a more Winston Churchill, and some people are definitely not.   Mason: (55:15) We used to have that with the mushrooms a lot. It hasn't really happened as much. I think maybe because we put a message out around how to go slow and steady. But when I was at the markets, especially. was a bit more of a Wild West time of taking medicinal mushrooms and adaptogens and everyone was like megadosing all the time. But people with arthritis would come back with this massive swell-up and then they're like, it's worse. And I'm like, well, it's not.   Monica Shepherd: (55:41) It's a healing crisis.   Mason: (55:44) Yeah, it's a big adverse reaction. It's a big healing crisis. But it always amazed me because it's hard to have faith, I felt. I'm talking to people just having these as a lifestyle thing and I know what it is, but I'm not a practitioner. I do kind of have faith that you're not under my care, so I can't tell you what to do. But sometimes it's a hard one for them, especially. I'm like, well look, that's a healing reaction, but just in case there's something auto-immune as well, I'm going to tell you to go. For people to then go, you know what, I'm trusting my body. It's hard to get to that point, especially if you're under a practitioner and it's going to get much worse before it gets better. I think it's an interesting insight for people to remember just to keep a big chunk of that faith in your body. You're going through something, you're going to get through it, it's going to be okay. But especially, in that instance, going back, I'm glad I was conservative because I'm sure there are instances where immune markers are going up when they're already auto-immune, and you want to be onto that.   Mason: (56:53) For some reason, even though I was in the Wild West and on the frontier with all this kind of stuff as well, I was always conservative, to an extent, for some reason. Not with myself, but with what I told everyone. This has been so awesome. How far are you through your master's?   Monica Shepherd: (57:12) I'm quite at the beginning, to be honest. So it is only two years full-time. I feel really blessed, to be honest, that they accepted a naturopath in the first place to do this degree and I still remind myself, hey, I'm really honoured that they accepted me. And there was a bit of work getting into it as well, because usually you'd have someone with your more traditional medical training who does this course. What we've been looking at so far are all the factors that stop somebody getting better when they have a mental illness, and that can be as simple as looking at what stops somebody seeking help and that is a big topic. And why are people who have mental health disorders less likely to seek help, and when they do seek help, they're less likely to continue to seek help, to continue to keep getting help. We can talk about things like stigma, and stigma is as simple as we don't talk a lot about mental health. We see it as something that's still a bit shush and quiet, even in this day and era, and we still don't associate it as, trauma is an experience of life, biochemistry is something that's physically happening in the body and there are all these simple ways that we can do to support it.   Monica Shepherd: (58:41) We're also looking at what happens. Do we treat people with mental health disorders differently? And in the medical system we definitely still do. It might be as simple as studies are showing over and over again that medical practitioners are likely to change their tone of voice to someone who they're talking to who's come in for help with a mental health disorder. And that's just not appropriate. You're not going to belittle someone who's got cancer and start talking to them like they're a child, but we would do that to somebody who's come in seeking support for depression, for example.   Mason: (59:17) Is that because there's a stigma around. I'm trying to think of a way to say it without it sounding offensive. That that's a simpler mind that can't keep itself happy?   Monica Shepherd: (59:33) Yeah. It's a simple person, but that's not the case at all. We find that you can have really educated people who are still going to get depression because, like I was saying before, the biggest risk factor is long-term stress. You can have stress from someone who's got low socio-economic stress, and poverty is pretty stressful. I think we can all agree. But you can have somebody who is a CEO of a big company. That's going to be pretty stressful as well, and that's going to give them a big predisposition to depression. Does any of this mean that they've got a simple mind? No. It's definitely not that case at all. And the other thing that we're finding consistently with the research is that people don't feel like they can give clear lifestyle advice to friends and family or to patients in a medical setting of someone who is coming in for mental health disorder. So they don't feel like they can say to them, hey, let's go for a walk, for example. As you were talking before, we know that simple exercise makes a big difference to our mood. They don't feel like it's their place or that they can confidently say that, when actually the research is going, you really should.   Monica Shepherd: (01:00:43) You should be saying to your friend, "Let's go for a walk." We should be saying, even if your friend doesn't like it, hey, you should reduce your caffeine or smoking or have you considered looking at that? They're less likely to say that. They think it's not their place. Actually the research is going, it's all our place to say something and help these people and we can feel confident knowing that simple lifestyle factors do make a big difference in mental health disorders.   Mason: (01:01:09) Yeah, that interpretation of the Hippocratic Oath not doing harm is thankfully changing for the better. And not just the GP. Because it's almost like I can't talk to you about anything. I just got to get you on antidepressants, for example, and then I'm kind of covered. Then I'm fine. I've always got a sore spot with that, partly my mom's responsibility and go full pelt with antidepressants, but at the same time, it's massively irresponsible, as her GP, he was just like, well I'm just getting you on antidepressants. And there was no kind of plan, there was no other conversations around integrating other specialists. And fine, that was an institutional doctor that isn't talking about this quackery like walking, helping depression. That led to decades and decades of addiction to the drug, naturally. And the fact that there's still defence of that as the sole way to treat, I would argue that that is indeed creating a lot of harm in patients. So it's nice to see, albeit slowly, that the narrative's changing.   Monica Shepherd: (01:02:29) It needs to change because it's not quackery. The science is there. The science is overwhelmingly in support of exercise and supportive meditation, which seems like this crazy thing that hippies do, essentially, but actually it's something that everybody can be doing. And the science is really starting to back up with adaptogens as well. But unfortunately, we are going to have some medical practitioners who are going to stick to their narrative. Their brains are not as plastic as we'd like for them to be right now.   Mason: (01:03:04) That surgical grey, plastic hardness.   Monica Shepherd: (01:03:07) Yes. And then we're going to see exactly that, and I see that a lot, where I see people who've been on the same medication for many years, and it's not reviewed, it's not changed, they're not encouraged to go and do some other techniques and they're not encouraged to slowly come off their medication in time. It's mind-boggling. It really is.   Mason: (01:03:30) Yeah. It is mind-boggling. We can go down that route, but we know it's just a fact.   Monica Shepherd: (01:03:39) Yes, it is. Yep.   Mason: (01:03:41) Probably the same thing, like the fact that we just went through a pandemic and not one opportunity to look at what metabolic factors or whatever it is, mental health factors are going to keep us as a population healthy when everyone was inside and had time to do these things, there wasn't a mass education process and review of the science. There was just, stick to what works. And, mostly, they're just like, suck it up and keep battling. Actually, we're seeing it now, it's coming out in the wash and it does not work like that.   Monica Shepherd: (01:04:15) No. It's been interesting seeing what the world's going through at the moment and even seeing our level of freedom of speech being really questioned at the moment as well, is what's happened with the pandemic. There's this whole thing about facts and it's a whole another topic that we could go into for a long period of time as well. But it comes back to the big question of, we should all really be able to educate ourselves. There's been this shift that's happening where we're kind of going, okay, why are we not given this information when we know the research is there that vitamin D can be just as effective as the flu vaccine, for example. So why are we not being told this? Why are we not being told that, hey, adaptogens could really support you right now?   Monica Shepherd: (01:05:13) And unfortunately we're still in the period of time where we have to empower ourselves, we have to educate ourselves and remember, this is my body, this is my health and I do get to make my own decision right now. And I see podcasts like this as being a fantastic example, because we're having a conversation with two people as well, as opposed to just being preached to in the media where it's very one way, you can't respond and that's kind of how we train the brain to be washed over time, is when you don't get to form your own opinion, you don't get to have an interactive conversation. You just get told a narrative. But we're seeing podcasts like this, we're seeing great conversations happen, we're seeing people more willing to educate themselves and more willing to seek help from both traditional knowledge as well, and that's exciting. I'm grateful that we get to be a part of it.   Mason: (01:06:12) It is exciting. It is very exciting. And you coming on and bringing up this conversation around adaptogens again, I guess reminds everyone how blessed we are to be able to get access to these incredible herbs. And then from there, we all can remember, all right, yes, the kids can get onto these. We've got such a stressful world, why aren't we getting the kids or our grandparents or our workplace onto these herbs which we know 100% how across the population this is going to help fortifiers get the cortisol down, get us processing these things that make us getting into chronic states of mental illness. It's going to put the odds in our favour, ideally. It's been so good talking to you.   Monica Shepherd: (01:07:01) It works in our favour. Thank you. I like that. The odds are in our favour today. Let's go.   Mason: (01:07:07) That as a reality is incredible to realise. The odds are in your favour. So good. Thanks for bringing this positive energy and reminding us how the messengers from heaven, what they're doing for our HPA and our general health and our capacity to thrive and be hyperplastic.   Monica Shepherd: (01:07:26) You're so welcome. Thank you for having me. This has been lots of fun.   Mason: (01:07:30) Best place for people to tune in is theorganicnaturopath.com, is that right?   Monica Shepherd: (01:07:37) Yep, that is.   Mason: (01:07:39) Your Instagram, it's theorganicnaturopath as well, isn't it?   Monica Shepherd: (01:07:43) It is. Yep.   Mason: (01:07:45) Beautiful, everyone. Are yo

On the show today, Chinitha shares the concept of How versus What from the book  "Fail Fast Fast Often." She shares an excerpt from the book and explains how reframing a question from HOW to WHAT will open your mind to more opportunities instead of limiting constraints. The next 2 episodes, she will share a new concept from the book that will help you to upgrade your mind and live the life you truly desire. Today's episode is part 2 of 4 for this book series. Grab your headphones and get ready. CLASS IS IN SESSION!Book mentioned: Fail Fast Fail Often: How Losing Can Help You Win by Ryan Babineaux and John KrumboltzShare your takeaways about this episode or the Influence Yourself 1st Podcast with Chinitha on Instagram @chinithajohnsonShe'd love to hear from you! Tag her in a post or send her a DMMARK YOUR CALENDARS! THE EVOLUTION OF ME JOURNAL is RE-LAUNCHING better than ever. It is happening on  April 1, 2021 at 10am central standard time. To learn more CLICK HERE.Please be sure to rate the show HERE  and share episode with someone who you know could benefit from the information. Chinitha's new ebook GIFTED WITH PURPOSE : The Key To Unlocking Your Abundant and Fulfilled Life is available on Amazon and on www.chinithajohnson.comAbout the ebook: GIFTED WITH PURPOSE : The Key To Unlocking Your Abundant and Fulfilled Life:There comes a point in every person's life where they question WHY. Why was I born? Why am I here? What is this thing about purpose and how does it apply to me? Do you reflect on your life and seems unfair? You're frustrated and tired of feeling stuck but now what? There has to be MORE to this life...right? Absolutely! It is through our lives that we have been gifted with purpose. Through purpose, a life of abundance and fulfillment awaits you, and not surface level abundance. Within 18 pages, you will learn what the best gift of life is and how to identify it for yourself, so that you can unlock the life that will change your life and legacy forever!Check out Chinitha's new series MY LIFE IN 365 that is streaming on Facebook and Youtube.  This series is a year long project where she challenges herself by visually tracking her productivity and accountability.  Follow and watch the show on Facebook 

In this episode, Co-Founders of Survivorship Solutions, Jillian Schmitt and Kristin Carroll, talk about Cancer Survivorship and the need for Caner Rehab Education. Today, Jillian and Kristin talk about the prevalence of cancer, the importance of competency in cancer rehabilitation for all rehab clinicians, and compiling educational courses from leaders in the field. When should cancer rehabilitation start? Jillian and Kristin tell us that learning is not enough, hear about the value of mentorship, and Jillian and Kristin’s community of clinicians, all on today’s episode of The Healthy, Wealthy & Smart Podcast.   Key Takeaways “Cancer is not just one type of cancer. Cancer is not just what you’re seeing on the outside, there are physical changes on the inside as well.” “One thing that physical therapists have to keep in mind is that 100% of physical therapists, at some point in their physical therapy career, will see someone with cancer.” “If you want to stay on the bus, get competent and elevate your skillset to everything, not just cancer rehabilitation, but add that as another skill in your pocket.” “If you are a clinician or a therapist, it really is your ethical responsibility to take care of every patient that comes through the door, regardless of what their past medical history is. If you are not confident and competent in taking care of oncology patients, get that way. There’s a solution for you. Educate yourself, feel comfortable, feel confident, take care of your patient the way you should.” “For administrators and leadership teams, you really want to know that your team can take care of this population. If you do not have something in place that is ensuring that your clinicians and rehabilitation teams are really competent at taking care of these patients, you need to get that way, and you need to get that way pretty quick because the regulations and requirements from the very top levels are requiring that you do that.” “If your oncologist is not talking to you about function and what’s happening to you during your cancer journey and how that is going to be mitigated, or how you’re going to have a rehabilitation therapist of some sort as part of your team, ask for it. It needs to have this bottom-up push as well.” “Think big, be brave, and just go for it.” “Keep being a sponge. Keep learning. Don’t be afraid to try new things. When you’re starting to get burned out, try something else. Keep learning and keep growing, and eventually you’re going to find something that just wows you and really makes you change not only your career, but your personal growth as well.”   More about Kristin Kristin has been in clinical care and leadership roles within the Boston and Hartford healthcare systems for over 30 years. For over a decade she has focused on elevating her oncology specific practice with Klose coursework in lymphedema, oncology and breast cancer rehabilitation specialty courses through Julia Osborne and the American Physical Therapy Association (APTA); Academy of Oncologic Physical Therapy, and earned completion certificates in Chemotherapy/ Biotherapy Agents and Radiation Therapy from the Oncology Nursing Society. She is planning to sit for the 2021 Oncologic Certified Specialist Examination. Kristin has been a mentor, clinical coordinator, and educator at both the system and collegiate level. She continues to serve as an educator through her role as an instructor within Survivorship Solutions ’clinical education course: Core Competencies in Interdisciplinary Cancer Rehabilitation, contributing to guest podcasts on Breast Friends Cancer Support Radio, Mama Bear Cancer Support Radio Talk Show, and The OncoPT Podcast, contributing to Alene Nitzky’ s book “Navigating the C: A Nurse Charts the Course for Cancer Survivorship Care”, and as invited speaker at the International Breast Cancer and Wellness Summit, and the American Congress of Rehabilitation Medicine National Conference 2020. She actively supports and is involved in the oncology community as a member of the American Congress of Rehabilitation Medicine Integrative Cancer Rehabilitation Task Force, Connecticut Lymphedema Consortium, local and national chapters of the American Physical Therapy Association (APTA); APTA Academy of Oncologic Physical Therapy, Hospice and Palliative Care Special Interest Group, and serves on the board of the APTA Connecticut Oncology Special Interest Group as Program Coordinator. Kristin received her Bachelor of Science in Physical Therapy from Northeastern University. More About Jillian: Jillian is a licensed physical therapist with over 20 years of experience in patient care, clinic development, management, and consulting within the fields of oncology, orthopedics, pediatrics, ergonomics, and corporate health. She studied biochemistry and business management at the University of Texas at Austin, and received a Bachelor of Science degree in Healthcare Sciences and a Master's degree in Physical Therapy from the University of Texas Medical Branch in 2001. Much of Jillian's early career focused on orthopedic and pediatric physical therapy intervention, specializing in complex, limb-salvage rehabilitation programs, spinal dysfunction, and sports medicine. Later, she turned her attention to program development, clinic start-ups, and management within the corporate healthcare industry. For the past six years, she has consulted in the implementation and optimization of survivorship services and cancer rehabilitation programs within national healthcare organizations. Jillian maintains professional licensure in physical therapy and participates in continuing education programs and certifications within oncology and other specialties. She serves as a contributing and presenting team member for the American Congress of Rehabilitative Medicine (ACRM)'s Integrative Cancer Rehab Taskforce and is a member of both the Education Section and Oncology Section of the American Physical Therapy Association (APTA). She also participates as a member of the Hospice and Palliative Care Special Interest Group (SIG). Jillian regularly contributes to podcasts, journals, and other professional publications related to oncology, healthcare, and business, and she participates and contributes regularly within the entrepreneur and small-business community of the Chicago-land area, including SCORE mentorship and women-led business groups. In 2016, Kristin and Jillian founded Survivorship Solutions, LLC., an education and consultancy firm dedicated to supporting clinicians and healthcare organizations in implementing high-quality cancer rehabilitation and survivorship services. The company collaborates with national and global experts in oncology, survivorship, and rehabilitation to grow team safety and competencies in oncology knowledge and evidence-based care.     Suggested Keywords Physiotherapy, Learning, Cancer, Research, PT, Health, Therapy, Oncology, Survivorship, Healthcare, Education, Training,   Recommended viewing https://vimeo.com/485402119 https://survivorshipsolutions.com/p/core-competencies-in-interdisciplinary-cancer-rehabilitation-2-0   To learn more, follow Jillian and Kristin at: Website:          https://survivorshipsolutions.com Vimeo:             https://vimeo.com/survivorshipsolutions Facebook:       Survivorship Solutions Instagram:       @survivorshipsolutions Twitter:            @survivorshipsol                         @KCarrollPT                         @JSchmittPT LinkedIn:         Kristin Carroll                         Jillian Schmitt                         Survivorship Solutions LLC NetHealth Webinar:  Rehab Therapy Outpatient Services 101: How to Expand into the Home or Assisted Living Facility. Subscribe to Healthy, Wealthy & Smart: Website: https://podcast.healthywealthysmart.com Apple Podcasts:        https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/healthy-wealthy-smart/id532717264 Spotify:                       https://open.spotify.com/show/6ELmKwE4mSZXBB8TiQvp73 SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/healthywealthysmart Stitcher:  https://www.stitcher.com/show/healthy-wealthy-smart iHeart Radio: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/263-healthy-wealthy-smart-27628927   Read the Full Transcript: Speaker 1 (00:00): Hey, Kristin and Jillian, welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy to have you guys on Speaker 2 (00:07): Or happy to be here. Speaker 3 (00:09): Thank you so much for having us on today. Speaker 1 (00:11): So today we're going to talk about cancer, survivorship. This is something that I've spoken to, one of your colleagues, Dr. Nicole Stout with, but before we get talking about that, what I would love to know is how the two of you came together to create survivorship solutions, the how, and the why behind it. Speaker 2 (00:31): So, Kristen and I knew each other before we started the company together for a couple of years, we, we previously worked for another organization and had similar roles and that was to implement cancer rehabilitation, service lines within healthcare systems. And Kristen and I really connected during that time. And we really enjoyed working with each other. We valued a lot of the same things. And so once we left that situation or once that situation of our, our, you know, once that's working together no longer happened for that particular company, we decided that we were great together and that we would we needed to continue the work. And so we started survivorship solutions together Speaker 3 (01:21): And Julia and I are both physical therapists and I have a special, I've been working with oncology patients for over 12 years. And even though we're both PTs, we both kind of had different soap boxes and what we were so passionate about. And Jillian has a love and just a savvy for business and growth. And you know, I just love to educate and things like that. So together, you know, just our, our strengths and our passions just forged us forward to create this, this company to, to continue to help healthcare organizations, but also individual commissions that, that really just needed to get more information on how to take care of people with cancer. Speaker 1 (01:59): Yeah. And that was my next question is where, where was the gap that, what was the gap that you guys saw that you were like, Hey, if we can put our heads together and create this, we're really going to help fill that gap? Speaker 2 (02:11): Right. Well, you know, for me personally, it was I was not a cancer rehabilitation therapist for most of my, my clinical career. I was in orthopedics and I th the opportunity to begin working in cancer rehabilitation actually came about it was pretty unexpected. I received a phone call from a very good friend of mine and also therapists I would school with. And I've been in practice for 15 years and she said, you know, I think that this would be a really good opportunity for you, you know, you, you've married sort of this business. And I, because I had opened clinics and I had done a lot of the, the business part of it. And but I really loved clinical practice. And I also had a very personal situation occurring in my life, or one of my loved ones was experiencing the cancer journey and really having a lot of issues and a lot of problems that I was really familiar with. But I, you know, like weakness and numbness and things like the things that physical symptoms, but I was just kind of watching through this lens and like, all right, well, that's like what I do every day, but why isn't somebody helping him? So it was all these three things that kind of came together and took me out of my orthopedic world pretty quickly and thrust me into the cancer rehabilitation world, which I had thought, I mean, admittedly been very naive of until that happened. Speaker 3 (03:43): Yeah. And I was working in an outpatient center and had surgeons come to ask if I would become competent to learn how to take care of breast cancer patients. Cause they were breast cancer surgeons. So I went to Olympia DEMA course and I learned all about lymphedema. And then I came back and I saw a breast cancer patient and I was all excited to use my new education that I just learned and she didn't have lymphedema, but I was like, Oh my God, what do I do with her? I mean, I learned all about lymphedema isn't that cancer rehab isn't. And so Julie and I learned quickly that in order to really become competent, to take care of people with cancer, you have to travel around the country at your conferences and online and, and do all sorts of things to get there. But a lot of it was just disease specific, like just breast cancer. So how do you learn how to take care of everybody that has all different kinds of cancers and all the different problems? So we felt that it really was our ethical responsibility as we were working with healthcare organizations to make sure that if we were going to implement a program, we had to make sure the team really was confident and competent to do that. So how we created education to go along with that implementation. Speaker 1 (04:54): Yeah. Excellent. And, and I will say that people who, like, I know people who've been diagnosed with cancer and as of yet only like two of them have gone to physical therapy. One of which was because I said, you have to go to physical therapy, she had a double mastectomy. And I said, tell your doctor that you want to go to PT afterwards. And she was like, but the doctor gave me this list of exercises. And I said, no, no, no, no, no. Tell your doctor, you want to go to see a physical therapist after this and, and sh afterwards she was like, yeah, I I definitely needed a PT. And so I think the issue here, and we'll get into that, we'll get into this conversation in a little bit, but you know, the issue here is that cancer is not just one type of cancer. Cancer is not just a, what you're seeing on the outside, but there are physical changes on the inside as well. And that's where being a knowledgeable physical therapist on, on the rehab of people diagnosed with cancer is so important, but let's talk about cancer in particular. So cancer itself can affect anyone true or false. That's absolutely right. Yeah, definitely. And so let's talk a little bit about the, this sort of prevalence of cancer and what that means for us right now, Speaker 3 (06:31): Almost 17 million cancer survivors in the country. And so that is all different ages, you know, doesn't matter which sex, all different kinds of cancers, definitely cancer is not discriminant. And so you talk about the gap in care. And Andrew Chevelle is, is kind of huge in our cancer rehab world and does research. And you know, she talks about the 83% of general cancer survivors have problems that really require rehabilitation and take it to the other end where women sorry, excuse me, general cancer metastatic or stage four, they have up to 92% of problems. So obviously somebody that has a chronic cancer condition is going to have more and more problems because they are receiving more and more treatments. And so the percentage of people that actually get rehabilitation is only about 30% according to, to her study. So that's, you know, that's a huge gap in care wizards. Speaker 3 (07:25): It's 83% of general cancer survivors or the 92% of our metastatic breast cancer patients. That's a huge gap with 30%. So when we're looking at that, if you're young and you're diagnosed with cancer and you have treatment, you're going to grow up to have perhaps problems, you know, as you get older. And so, you know, these people are inside our clinics already. And sometimes it's a little tiny past medical history. That's checked, you know, on their, on their form and we see cancer, but yet we're a little bit afraid sometimes to ask a little bit about what that is. And, and even I do that when I'm in a private room with my cancer patients that I'm treating them, I have no problem talking about what they went through, but on an open clinic. And I see that little word cancer, sometimes I, I will say, Oh, well, you had cancer. What kind did you have? And you know, but we really have to have these conversations. What kind of cancer did you have? What kind of treatment did you have because it really can impact the treatment that you are providing your patient, whether they're a pediatric patient, you know, an inpatient and outpatient adult really doesn't matter what the setting is. It really could depend on what your care plan is going to be. Speaker 1 (08:41): And Karen, you, you had mentioned that you said you asked, can anybody get cancer and can this affect everybody? And absolutely. And I think what's, what's really interesting is that healthcare professionals, you, myself Speaker 2 (08:56): Included, we don't necessarily automatically think about like the, the functional consequences of having cancer, even though we see it. We're so we have this new normal instilled in us that we sort of expect cancer patients to not have normal function or not be doing well. And it just really to be part of what the expectation is once you get that diagnosis. And even me, even somebody that has worked in therapy for a long time and having a person very close to me, experiencing physical symptoms, I still, it was almost like a, it was just sort of like an out of, Oh, you know, like I didn't really make sense to me why he wasn't getting it, but it wasn't sort of this, well, this is a person that needs to have therapy. That connection wasn't, wasn't quite there yet. And I think that that's true for a lot of clinicians. Speaker 2 (09:49): They say, well, we, we don't see cancer patients, but but w w what Christina likes to say, well, yes, you actually, you have, and you do you see them probably every day on your schedule, there's such a high percentage of people that cancer at this point, that if you're seeing any population in ortho population or a neuro population or whatever in your clinic, you have seen patients that have either current or a previous diagnosis of cancer. And so you are, these patients are coming into our clinics already, and people are just not really making that connection. Speaker 1 (10:23): Yeah. I remember when I spoke to Nicole, she said, one thing that all physical therapists have to keep in mind is a hundred percent of physical therapists in, at some point in their physical therapy career will see someone with Speaker 2 (10:36): Absolutely, absolutely. Probably this week. Yeah. And like, you know, it's, it's not, it's not when, or, or it's, I mean, like it's very, very soon because patients also don't necessarily think about the fact that they have a cancer diagnosis and it's something that they really need to kind of put, put front and center when they are going to rehab. So maybe they've had a knee replacement or they've had some other traditional rehabilitation problem, like a BA like back pain or whatever they go to PT for. And they had that pesky, you know, cancer diagnosis 10 years ago that colorectal cancer, but they, they got it and they got the third, but so they don't really, but you know what, those things that happened 10 years ago with that diagnosis and the medications that that patient had and the treatments that that patient had are actually going to impact the way that they heal in, in physical therapy. And so I think the patient doesn't understand the significance of it. And then the clinician doesn't really understand the significance of it. And it makes a huge impact in how well that patient is gonna, you know, do and how, and in the course of their therapy, it really should kind of direct the course of their therapy and and predict how well they're going to be able to, you know, certain, certain things that should be in therapy and certain things that should really not be done in therapy should be based on that. Speaker 1 (11:57): And something that as you're saying, all of this, that kind of struck me is that in physical therapy, you know, we are expected to have the competency to treat people with a total knee replacement, low back pain post-stroke Ms. But you guys have traveled around the country. You've spoken to many physical therapists, is that clinical competency in cancer rehab there amongst the physical therapy profession. And this is a silly question, but is it essential? Speaker 3 (12:35): I do. I think it was definitely not there. I mean, there are therapists that are very skilled at providing lymphedema treatments, and there are therapists that are very skilled in targeting certain kinds of breast cancer. But I think one of the things that we think, what I think about is that the things that people going through cancer treatment, it's kind of like an anticipated decline, right? Like we kind of know that they're going to feel like crap when they're going through chemotherapy. And I think that maybe, and I had this assumption that once their chemotherapy is over, they're going to be fine. And I think a lot of the providers think that as well, we kind of know that they're not going to do well during treatment, but I don't think that a lot of people know is that they don't do well even after treatment and that six months and years later, they have these effects. Speaker 3 (13:24): And because there are one in eight women that get breast cancer, and there are so many men that get prostate and other lung cancers are, are breast cancer women, and are prostate men have to take medications sometimes for five and 10 years, that affects their musculoskeletal system that affects every ortho therapist. If they're treating these people that are in their clinics. So there may be a general awareness, but I think there is kind of pick and choose, like you make it a lung cancer patients that you're treating for weakness. You don't have to treat weakness, you don't to treat balance issues, but you may not really understand what the chemo regimen did to the patient, why they're having those. So I think explain the why around it helps to decrease the fear that some therapists have of treating, because I sure was afraid when I saw my frail bald patients walking in, I was really afraid I was going to hurt them. And I didn't feel safe to take care of them because I had one month of DEMA course, and I wasn't. So we kind of wing it, right. Because there's not really many resources out there. Right, right. Speaker 2 (14:36): Back into my schoolwork and looked and to see what oncology criteria like curriculum that we had gone through when I was a student. And yeah, I mean, it was so minimal. It was less than a week was one core, like within one class that wasn't oncology focused. It was, I mean, the amount of information that clinicians were getting in school and professional programs was very, very minimal. And of course that's more than 20 years ago when I was in school. But even now even now I would say that there was a huge percentage of of clinicians that take our course who are new grads. They just got out of school. So we know, and we've communicated with them. Talk to them. This is not in their curriculum. They are not learning this in school. Otherwise they would not be seeking out some of this information that they know is really important anyway. And that's physical therapists, occupational therapists, anybody that's in allied health or are seeing patients really needs that they need to have this foundational, basic knowledge that makes them safe and makes them competent to care for these patients. And so it is a little, I I'm sure the education, maybe at some point we'll catch up, but it hasn't yet. Speaker 1 (15:56): Yeah. And, and I'm sure it also depends on what's on the MPTE, but that's a whole other thing and let's, we won't get into that, but we know that certainly exists when it comes to educational curriculum in schools. Yes. At any rate I digress. Let's talk about, let's talk about when should rehab physical therapy, occupational therapy start. So someone is diagnosed with cancer. When do they start their rehab? Speaker 3 (16:27): The rehabilitation starts at diagnosis and that's when the American cancer society. And so many of our, our industry regulators recommend that it started and it start from diagnosis all the way from end of life or end of care. And, you know, we compare this to kind of our other service lines, but, you know, somebody is having a knee replacement they're coming in for prehab, right. They're coming in for education, they're coming in for strengthening before they do that. And it's, it's no different for a patient with cancer. They need to be armed with what they are going to go through. Not only the education to help decrease their fear, but also the problems that they are going to incur, understanding that we have the skillset and the tools to be able to support them throughout that journey. And I think the other thing that rehab teams don't realize is that general clinicians that don't have specialties really can treat the scope of most of the impairments that people have. Just like we all can you know, balance and numbness and tingling and strength issues and fatigue, and just, you know, the list goes on and on, but if you have a pelvic health issue or if you have lymphedema, then we triaged to our, to our specialists Speaker 2 (17:35): And, and best practice really dictates that when you're going to begin any type of a treatment or any type of incur, any type of or undergo any type of surgery or anything like that, it's really to establish a baseline. And in cancer, there's really, it's, it's very important to establish a baseline because we know pretty, pretty well that cancer treatments are going to cause problems. They're going to exacerbate existing problems. And so if we can add diagnosis, capture what that baseline is for that patient and monitor and survey that patient and make sure that that patient is not there, that their existing, their preconditions or existing deficits or impairments are not getting worse or that new ones are not popping up. That really is best practice because we know that if we can see something pop up, you know, and catch it immediately, it's going to be a lot easier to take care of and to recover from or to prevent even then, if it's something that we don't, you know, that we don't look for until after treatment is over, maybe, you know, the patient is having a lot of functional problems that are really obvious. Speaker 2 (18:50): If you just wait until then it's going to be a lot harder to intervene and it's going to, I mean, and this is it's gonna be a lot more expensive. I mean, something that may take just an education and maybe one visit and rehabilitation from the very onset and the very beginning even something, you know, just as you're going to have this, you're going to have a lumpectomy you're going to guard you. You know, let's make sure that when this happens, you're going to continue to do range of motion within a certain, you know, limitation, but that the patient knows that that can later prevent like three months of a frozen shoulder. Right? I mean, like we know that this, these things happen all the time and it's easy to just kind of get in there from the beginning. So best practice is, is at the very beginning at diagnosis, patients should definitely be at least screened for impairments and informed that rehabilitation is part of their medical care. They should expect it, their patient should walk in knowing that rehabilitation is part of their medical team. Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 3 (19:52): And this is, and this is something that Nicole Stout talks a lot about in her research has called the process perspective surveillance model. And that is, you know, screening patients before each intervention. So we know kind of what we call each medical touch point. So whether they're having surgery or chemotherapy or radiation really being screened before each of those interventions. So like Jillian said, we can kind of pick up on those impairments when they're acute in nature, that's really important. Speaker 1 (20:19): And so let's talk about cancer rehabilitation education. I think we've already established that physical therapists do not get an adequate amount of cancer rehabilitation education in school, and you may not get it on the job either, depending on where you work. So couple that with millions and millions of people getting diagnosed with cancer every year rehab should start at the point of diagnosis. So let's talk about the education around it, because if that is the case, and now it is recommended rehab start at the time of diagnosis. And there are tons of PTs in this country and not many know how to deal with this. How do we educate physical therapists in a robust manner so they can help with these patients? Speaker 2 (21:15): Well, I think that things are kind of catching up here. It's been established that cancer rehabilitation is important and it needs to be part of cancer patients cancer care. And we have national regulatory agencies and different sort of top level drivers that are encouraging and really requiring organizations to provide cancer rehabilitation. So we have a lot of these companies that are starting to recognize, all right, are people that are in house already need to be doing this. And then from the clinician's perspective. And, and I can say this as a, as a physical therapist, if, if my boss had come to me in my outpatient clinic and said, okay, we're going to have a bunch of oncology patients come in the doors now. Because there's these guidelines and we're going to see this influx of patients and you guys are gonna be treating these patients. Speaker 2 (22:15): I would have been like, okay, like I would have been really nervous about it. And so we, we still sort of were getting that response as organizations are starting to implement some of these policies that are requiring that their organizations provide these services. So we're also getting this sort of searching from these clinicians, like, all right, I'm going to see cancer patients. And when I go online, I see like a billion, different CU courses for different types of, I mean, I can be different specialists in this or a specialist in that, or I can take this or I can take that. What I really want to know is how can I be safe to see these patients coming through the door. I don't, but maybe cancer is not there. And you know, what, what they're interested in, they don't want to specialize in it. Speaker 2 (23:03): That's fine. And so they don't want to spend thousands of dollars on specialties and weekends, but they do want to be safe and they want to know. And so Chris and I kind of came at it from that perspective, like, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna say, we're going to get more referrals in your clinics because of these guidelines, because it's the right thing to do because research says that cancer patients need it. But what's really important to us is that your clinicians feel competent. They feel safe. How can we create the education that your, your clinicians are gonna feel like they can have anybody land on their schedule and that's going to be fine because that's going to make them feel comfortable. And what that's going to do is going to make their bosses feel comfortable there. The leadership is going to know that their entire Rhea team has a competency and anybody can kind of come through there and that their service is going to be very similar from facility and location location. Speaker 2 (23:48): So we, that's kind of where we started with. We weren't, we didn't, we didn't want to make a course that was going to make somebody a specialist. Those are out there and they're awesome. And we work with all those people that make those courses. So we know they're awesome. We wanted to create something that was respectful of somebody's time and their money, and, and really want to just pull the most excellent parts of all those specialties into one spot so that a therapist could go through it and be pretty confident in their leadership can be pretty confident that they were that they were gonna be able to take care of these patients as they come through the doors. Speaker 3 (24:23): Yeah, Kristen, and then I, I was live and then I was living in the cancer rehabilitation world. So I knew a lot of the experts and the leaders in the field from just attending their courses and conferences like Nicole, Nicole Stout, and Julia Osborne. And, you know, just all of these amazing people that really aligned with the same mission and vision that Jillian and I both had to spread this education. And, but what was missing was a comprehensive online platform. And, you know, I I'm sitting for the specialty exam in February, but I'm an expert in certain things, but I certainly not the expert on everything. And so Joanie and I said, you know, when we're learning, we want to learn from our role models, right? Our peers and our colleagues who respect in the field. So we went out and we asked them, you know, will you help us create this education? Speaker 3 (25:18): And they all said, absolutely it's really important. And why it's important is because we have to get it in the hands of people quickly. I, it took me 12 years to kind of get all this information. We don't have that kind of time because we have almost 17 million people that need this care right now. And these patients are in the clinics and, and they need it. You know, they're, they're just people that want to do marathons and, you know, raise their children and go to school and do all the things that everybody else does. So how do we get it into the hands of people? So we went out and they created this, this education, and then we went and got it approved recently for continuing education credits. So it really is an amazing compilation of education that spreads a blanket over all different kinds of cancer, disease types and all the impairments. But it isn't just for somebody that wants to be competent and confident. Cause I went through it myself and I learned a lot of information and I've been doing this for over 12 years. So it really is also for clinicians that are interested in cancer rehabilitation that work in cancer rehabilitation, but are also experts because they will learn about a lot of things that there are no courses for like pharmacology. There are no courses for pharmacology, right. They're out there right now for to learn from Speaker 2 (26:39): It's really for the whole team. Yeah. And so when, so let's Speaker 1 (26:44): As a physical therapist I go through, through this chorus, I'm confident, I'm competent. And is it like, okay, thanks. I guess I'm, I'm, I'm good now. I don't need anything else. So what happens after this sort of ed, you have this experience with you guys and you're, you know, relatively confident and competent is, is that where the learning ends? Speaker 2 (27:12): No, I, I, I really love that you asked that question actually, because this is what I, this is my soap box. You know, we all, all of our presenters for our course, they all have their soap boxes. They're all specialists about what they think is the most important. That's why our education is awesome. We, you know, we went to the specialist, we said, give us 30 minutes, you know, or, or whatever that you think is the most important part of your specialty that you think all general people should know, and then they bring it in and that's, what's in the core. So you kind of get the best of everything and what the specialist actually think the general therapists really need to know about certain things. But we did recognize absolutely that once you have, this is acumen or you, this information about, you know, cancer rehabilitation and you have got to be able to communicate with others that have the same information that, that are there in the same world. Speaker 2 (28:02): Because even though there are going to be a lot of patients that are starting to come in in the future right now, it's a little bit of a small world. It's kind of a, a small world in regards to who is in cancer rehabilitation. And we know this because we go to the conferences and we see the people that come to the different lectures and the presenters. And we know that this is kind of a small world because we see that a lot of the same people over and over again. And, and so the education is really important, obviously for Kristin and I, we have it updated constantly by the presenters. Each one of them is responsible for their segment so that we know if legislation changes, if there's evidence that comes out, something happens where their presentation or their part of our education needs to be updated. Speaker 2 (28:42): That's going to happen in pretty, pretty much in real time. But how do we answer our students' questions later? How do we grow their interest or their confidence beyond just an online course and the way that Chris and I have been doing that, as you know, we've worked with clients and we've sort of built this community within our own clients, that they reach out to each other all the time and communicate in that way. They know they've got other people that are doing the same thing, implementing the same types of interventions or screenings or things like education. And so they can connect with each other. And that's great for those clients. But we've really recognized that there is there is a need for a community where people could really discuss their patients, discuss their experiences, discuss their education and grow from there. Speaker 2 (29:32): And so that's actually something that we're working on right now really hard. And we, we already, you know, it's rolled out for our clients right now. So it's just a matter of being able to make it more of a public forum where people can, they they've got this, they've had the education. So they kind of were speaking the same language, at least at a bare minimum. And then they can discuss and communicate. And what's nice about it is that we've got all of our partners who have created our course, like Nicole Stout and Mary Lou Valentino. And some of these others who are very reputable, well-known that created part of our course for us. And they're all in there like, heck yeah, we're going to be part of this conversation. We want to be part of this community. And so our vision of course, is that we can have discussion groups and different opportunities where people can get their questions answered about either about the education or applying that application, that education to real life scenarios. How can they get that feedback and that comradery that they're going to need to feel even more confident in this industry. That's why we have, that's why we have great relationships is that they all want to do this. They all know this community is important and it's not a big ask. It's not like, Hey, can you talk to a bunch of therapists that really think this is important? They're I mean, they're, they're all in it. They're all in. So Speaker 3 (30:51): Being an Island is, is kind of scary. And like you said, you take that education and then you go back into your clinic or your place. And for people that are working in rural communities, they may be the only person that is taking this education. And we're all really busy people in our work lives and our home lives. And I think one of the hardest things for me as a clinician and a business owner is what do I need to know right now? You know, there's so much research that comes out. And so that's how we also wanted to support with, with workshops. And you know, what is the need to know research that you need to know that's coming out today? You know, you can't afford to fly all over the country and go to all these conferences. Well, guess what, we've tidbit from all the conferences that now that's out there, that's pertinent to you so that you understand what's going on out there in the world without having to do that. Speaker 3 (31:43): And so it's you know, it has meant so much to Gillian and I to work with all of the partners that we have. All of the organizations that we work with are so passionate. We've met clinicians that are passionate. I've never met anyone that has not been exposed to cancer in some way, whether it's personally a friend, family, somebody, so everyone is connected by it. Nobody doesn't want to take care of somebody that's going through this. So it's really, how do we all kind of work together to support each other? That if you have questions kind of there in a non-threatening way. Certainly, you know, when Julia and I first met Nicole Stout, we were, you know, at, at, in section meeting and she was standing over there and, and, you know, Julie was like, I'm going to go over there and meet her. I'm like, no, no, it's Nicole Stone. You know? And I was so intimidated by her and because she was a big wig. Well, yeah, but when you meet her, you go, you meet her and you learn that she has the same passion and mission and commitment to people that you do. And, and she's so accepting and welcoming that, that really went away. And I felt like we had to really offer that to everybody else so that they could acknowledge that these people are, are very willing and receptive to helping. Speaker 1 (32:58): Yeah. Yeah. She's fabulous. Plus, I mean the shoe collection, I mean, I mean, can we just be envious of her shoe collection? And so, but yeah, she's, she's fabulous and what she does for the, for the physical therapy world oncology in particular. But I think the PT world as a whole is, is huge. As a student, she might, people might be intimidated by, by that. I mean, we were, but I think that that's what we're trying to do is as we're breaking down those, those barriers for our students, and we're saying, Hey, look, you know what your course is awesome as taught by an awesome person. And here's an awesome person that you can ask that question too. Yeah. Yeah. What a wonderful opportunity to give to your students to, to have to have those collaborations and those relationships, which in, in my, in my eyes, relationships are everything they're key. And, and that's the thing for me that keeps pushing this profession forward. As we wrap things up, I'm going to ask each of you. So what would be your big takeaway that you want the listeners to come away with from the talk today? Speaker 3 (34:09): I think one of the biggest things that I learned was actually back at CSM. And somebody said that as physical therapists, we are medical coordinators of care and is our ethical responsibility to really be able to take care of everybody that comes into our care. And he said, you know, what, if you're not competent to treat everybody get off the bus because you're bringing our profession down. You know, we have autonomy. Now we can have people coming into our clinics without physician referrals. So we have to know this many, many PTs can order x-rays and things like that. So my take home message is if you want to stay on the bus, get competent and elevate your skillset to everything, not just cancer rehabilitation, but add that as yet another skill in your pocket so that when that patient comes in, you can either treat them or you can triage them. A stroke patient comes into my clinic. I can evaluate them and educate them, but I might triage them somewhere else so that they get more targeted care. So that's, you know, I just want everybody to get on the bus. Yeah. Speaker 1 (35:20): Awesome. Jillian. Well I think my takeaway that I would provide it really depends on the audience on who is listening. So if you are a clinician or a therapist like Kristen, it really is Speaker 2 (35:38): Your ethical responsibility to take care of every therapy. Every patient that comes through the door, regardless of what their past medical history is you should be able to provide the highest level of care for that patient and as therapists. And we all know you have the heart of a therapist, you want to do the best for your patients. So if you are not confident and competent in taking care of oncology patients, my takeaway to you is get that way. There's a solution for you, educate yourself, feel comfortable, feel confident. You take care of your patients, where you said there's a solution for you. I'm an action girl, but my takeaway for administrators and for leadership teams of your organizations is you really want to know that your team can take care of this population. And when you do something, when you do something and you want to be sure that your team is competent, you put forth these standards and people have to meet these standards. Speaker 2 (36:31): And so my, my takeaway for then is that if you do not have something in place that is ensuring that your, your clinicians, that your rehabilitation teams are really competent in taking care of these patients you need to get that way and you need to get that way pretty quick because the regulations and the the requirements that are coming down from the very top levels nationally are requiring that you do that. So it's not just an ethical thing on the clinician side. It really, and, and also this is a new patient population or not, not a new patient population, but this is a patient population that is going to expand. We're going to see a lot more on ecology patients. And so that is an opportunity to reach out to sort of almost a new I don't want to call it a market cause I don't like to call people a market, but it is, it's a new, it's a new market for, for those administrators and most leaders. Speaker 2 (37:28): And then the takeaway, of course, if we have patients listening or, or relative caregivers coast survivors is what we call people that are in the lives of, of a person with a diagnosis of cancer. Ask for it. My takeaway is that this is part of your medical care. You should be, if you're not, if you're, if you're on ecologists, your provider is not talking to you about function and what's happening to you during your cancer journey and how that is going to be mitigated or how you're going to have a rehabilitation therapist of support as part of your team. If somebody has not said that to you yet ask for it because it needs to have this bottom up push as well. And it seems so logical when you talk about it. But again, you know, you gotta look, you gotta understand your audience and who are you talking to? What language are you speaking? Yeah. Speaker 1 (38:16): Excellent. All right. So before we get to where everyone can find you, I have last question, it's the question I ask everyone. And that is knowing where you are now in your life and in your career. What advice would you give to yourself as a new grad? Speaker 2 (38:33): I would tell my younger self or anybody that is kind of starting out in their career and they know they're doing what they love to think big, think big and be brave and just go, just go for it. Speaker 1 (38:48): Excellent. Kristen, Speaker 3 (38:50): I think that I would tell my younger self to just keep being a sponge, keep learning. Don't be afraid to try new things, you know, when you're starting to get burned out, try something else, which is what I did. I kind of kept jumping around and I found I was passionate about each of those things and just keep learning and keep growing. And eventually you're going to find something that really wows you and really makes you change not only your career, but your, you know, your personal growth as, as well. Speaker 1 (39:23): Excellent. Very good advice all around. So now where can people find you? Where can they find the course? What's the name of the course? Give me all the details. Speaker 2 (39:31): Great. but you can find us@survivorshipsolutions.com. That's our website and our courses on our homepage. So they can just click, click on the link, they'll see the education and they'll see some of the other, you know, consulting services and things like that that we also provide. But and certainly there's contact page. They can reach out to us. We're happy to, to have conversation with anybody. Speaker 1 (39:59): Perfect. And what about social media? Where can people find you follow you, et cetera? Speaker 3 (40:03): We are all over social media. We're on LinkedIn. We're on Twitter, on Instagram and I forgetting what's the other one, Facebook both personally and professionally where we're both on there. So maybe you can find us there. Speaker 1 (40:17): What are your handles? Speaker 3 (40:19): Our business handle is survivorship solutions for LinkedIn and for Twitter. It's survivorship Sol. Speaker 1 (40:26): Perfect. Excellent. And we will have the links to all of this at the show notes for this episode at podcast on healthy, wealthy, smart.com. So if you want to get more information on the course, follow them on social media become if you're a physical therapist out there listening, and you want to become competent and safe to treat patients, cancer patients, which we now know, we all will at some point then definitely check them out. So Kristin and Jillian, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate your time. Speaker 2 (41:03): Thanks so much for having us. It's been our pleasure. Speaker 3 (41:06): Thanks, Cara. It's been fun. Thanks so much. Speaker 1 (41:08): And everyone, thanks so much for listening. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy and smart.  

No April fools joke here...on this, the fifth day of Passover, we meet Eric’s last day as an official co-host. He will be moving on to full-time independent writing projects. Collaboration with the Tragedy Academy was demanded and will occur.Turns out Eric was literally a sailor as a young man. Remember how some of your mothers used to dress you up in cute little sailor suits as toddlers? Eric’s family took it to another level and shipped his ass off to a naval summer camp in landlocked Indiana. Don’t believe us? We have photographic proof. Jay points out that the picture looks like one of those propaganda war bond ads from the 50s. Humiliating? Absolutely.Appropriately, Eric was a terrible sailor and sunk several boats that had to be fished from the bottom of that lake. A lake filled by the way with gar. One of the most terrifying-looking fish on Earth. Look them up. The conversation turns to some other terrifying wonders of the sea including goblin sharks. Why were these made? What is their purpose? May you never fall deep enough into the ocean to find out.Multiple Jewish stereotypes are bantered about, solely by Eric (for the record) and then the two co-hosts discuss lessons learned during time together on the show. Jay explains how their dark humor and self-effacing comedy were a gateway for him to work through image and body dysmorphia issues from childhood.   The goal of bridging societal divides in a judgment-free zone has most certainly been achieved and will continue to be focused on hard by Jay. And candor and humor (sound like He-Man characters right?) will always be used to get the point across.Eric discusses how he has always wanted to pursue writing as it has always been his passion.   What is your passion?  The TTA takes the stance that you can obtain it through being your authentic self.  If you approach life by avoiding the negative self-talk or the societal forced limitations you can foster that talent or passion as it is clear what you are naturally designed to do.   Societal norms and pressures prevent us from reaching our full potential.   When fight your authentic natural self is you  trap your creativity in a cage.  Without the ability to express your natural passion and talent you slowly breakdown your heart and soul.  So Eric bids the podcast shalom but looks forward to seeing and hearing from all of you Academics in the future. On a serious note: Schlemiel, schlemazel hasenpfeffer incorporated.PS I’m really only HALF Jewish...which IS a thing.Episode 71 wraps up the TTA's freshman year.  See you next week for our sophomore year! Be cool. Keep learning.

In this fun episode, we're having an UNEDITED chat with the gorlz!! Absolutely no editing or cutting anything out. Get ready to laugh, cry, get deep, and so much more. You're in for a treat with this one :) Stay tuned for new episodes every Saturday and be sure to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!FOLLOW US ON INSTA:@gorlzjustwannahavefun@luke.csordas@mary_weisss See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Welcome!  We have had a very busy week this week so this is a reply of the show aired the end of February.  I'll be back next week. It was also another busy week on the technology front and we are going to delve into what actually caused the energy problems in Texas.  There is a new type of malware that is affecting Macs and it is has a different MO.  Then we are going to discuss Apple and their ventures into automated electric cars and what we can expect. Why are states having issues making appointments for vaccines? In a word, it is bureaucratic incompetence. Then we have a new type of hack out there.  It is called Buy-to-Infect and there is more so be sure to Listen in. For more tech tips, news, and updates, visit - CraigPeterson.com. --- Tech Articles Craig Thinks You Should Read: This Basic Math Shows How Wind Energy Failures Contributed To Texas’s Deadly Power Loss An Insider Explains Why Texans Lost Their Power New malware found on 30,000 Macs has security pros stumped Report: Nissan shot down Apple deal to avoid becoming Foxconn of cars N.Y.’s Vaccine Websites Weren’t Working Apple is already working on developing 6G wireless technology Owner of an app that hijacked millions of devices with one update exposes the buy-to-infect scam Mount Sinai study finds Apple Watch can predict COVID-19 diagnosis up to a week before testing Malware Exploits Security Teams' Greatest Weakness: Poor Relationships With Employees --- Automated Machine-Generated Transcript: Craig Peterson: [00:00:00] You probably know I've been doing cybersecurity now for 30 years in the online world. Yeah, that long. I'm afraid I have some confessions to make about our relationships here, cybersecurity people, and employees. Hi everybody. Craig Peterson here. I'm so glad to be here. I'm happy you're here as well. There are so many ways to listen. I got pulled into this whole business of cybersecurity quite literally, kicking and screaming. I had been already involved in the development of the internet and internet protocols for a decade before. In fact, one of the contracts that I had was with a major manufacturer of computer systems. What I did there was design for Unix systems a way to check for malware, a way to manage them remotely. Yes indeed, I made one of the first RMM systems, as we call them nowadays. We also tied that RMM system, of course, into Windows and a few other operating systems. Unix was where I was working at the time.  I am what they called an OG in the industry. My gosh, my first job with computer networks was back in 75. Believe it or not a long time ago. Back then, of course, it was mainframe to mainframe basically and some of the basic protocols, the RJE, and stuff. I know I've got a lot of older people who are listening who are saying, yeah, I remember that. It brings back memories.  In fact, I got a note just this week from a listener who was saying his first computer was a Sinclair. Do you remember those things? Oh my gosh. It brought back so many memories for us older guys. But it was just such a cool little device with the keys and much different than I'd ever seen before. The XZ81. I just looked it up online so I can remember what the model number was. That was made by Timex. If you can believe that too. It's just. Wow. It had a Z 80 CPU, which of course was like an 8080, which was Intel's, big chip at the time, running at 3.25 megahertz. Yes, indeed. Very cool. I love that computer anyways. I digress.  The whole industry at the time was non-existent, yeah. You had antivirus software. We started seeing that in the eighties and we had some terrible operating systems that many people were running like Windows, just absolutely horrific. Remember windows three-point 11 and XP and the millennial edition just some of the most terrible software ever. That's what happens when you have interns? A lot of the code, it came out in one of the lawsuits, for one of these versions of Windows.  It was a different world and I had to figure out what was going on because I had some servers that were Unix servers. This was the early nineties and I was hosting email for companies and websites and doing some filtering and things with some kind of precursor to SpamAssassin. It was really something. I had some DECservers, Digital Equipment Corporation. Remember those guys and all of a sudden customers started calling me because the email wasn't working.  It turned out it was working, but it was extremely slow and I had to figure out why.  I telneted to my server. I got on, started poking around the servers.  I had a computer room and the first floor of the building that I owned and I was up on the second floor. Off we go looking around trying to figure out what is going on. It was me actually. I said us, but it was really me. Cause I knew the most about this stuff.  There were these processes that just continued to fork and I was trying to figure out why is it creating all these new processes. What's going on? What has happened here? Back then, The internet was a much different place. We trusted everybody. We had fun online. We would spam people who broke our almost unwritten rules of the internet about being kind to other people. What spam was, where the whole term comes from is you would send the script from Monty Python spam and eggs, spam and ham spam, spam, spam routine. You just send it to somebody that was breaking these unwritten rules, like trying to sell something on the internet. Absolutely verboten. What a change to today.  I saw some of this stuff going on. I was trying to figure out what it was, but, we trusted everybody. So my mail server was Sendmail, at the time. We still maintain some instances of Sendmail for customers that need that.  Nowadays. It's usually more something like postfix in the backend. You might have Zimbra or something out front, but postfix in the backend. We allowed anybody on the internet to get on to our mail server and fix some configuration problems. They didn't have full access to everything. Firewalls weren't then what they are today. In fact, one of our engineers just had to run out to a client who did something we told them not to do.  They were using the Sonic wall firewall on their network as well as they had our stuff. So we had a really good Cisco firepower firewall sitting there, and then they have this SonicWall so that they're people, remotely could connect to the Sonic wall firewall, because it's good enough. SonicWall says it's compliant. The SonicWall firewall was being used to scan the network and load stuff. Does that sound familiar? Much to our chagrin.  So he had to run out and take care of that today. It sounds like we might have to do a rip and replace over there restore from backups. You have no idea what these bad guys might've done. We've seen Chinese into these networks before, Chinese malware. It's been really bad.  Boy, am I wandering all over the place?  Back to this, we would allow people to get onto our network to fix things.  If something was wrong, if we were misconfigured, they could help us and they could get on and do it because Sendmail configuration was not for the faint-hearted. In the days before Google, right? Eventually, we had Archie and Veronica, and Jughead. They did basic searches across FTP servers. That's my kicking and screaming story. I was trying to run a business where we hosted email for businesses, which we still do to this day, and where we had some, back then we didn't have websites. The web didn't come in into play until a couple of years later, but we did host FTP sites for businesses so that they could share files back and forth.  That's what I wanted to do. That was my business.  Later on, I ended up helping 80% of my clients find the other web hosts after, these $8 Gator hosting things. We just got a call on that this week. Somebody who'd been a client of ours 20 years ago, went with a guy that charges $5 a month for web hosting. They have personally identifiable information on that site if you can believe it. He was complaining because it wasn't working he was getting a C-panel error anytime he went to the site. We said, Hey, listen, this problem is the guy that you're hosting from. We did a little research and we checked the IP address and how many sites we're at that IP address. This guy that was charging them $5 a month had 150 different websites at that one IP address. Now that's not bad. He was hosting all of these 150 at a site, the charges, the eight to $10 a month for web hosting.  He had all of these sites on top of a machine that was already split up hundreds of ways. It's just amazing what people do.  Man alive.  We got rid of 80% of those customers, the ones that wanted cheap, that's fine, get cheap, and see what happens to you. Some of them, we still maintain a good relationship with and so we help them out from time to time, right?  What am I going to do? So somebody calls me, I gotta help them. That's precisely what we do now with this malware problem.  What's going on here? We talked already about the Great Suspender and how Google has said, Hey, this now has malware in it, so we're removing it from your web browsers. That to me makes a ton of sense. Why not do that?  This is another example of what happened with SolarWinds. This is an example of a supply chain infection. What happened with that? Somebody bought Great Suspender from the developer and then added in this basically malware to the Great Suspender. Just it's a terrible thing. Very surprising, but one of the biggest exploits that are being used by the bad guys right now is the security team's poor relationship with other employees within the organization.  I promise we'll get to this a little bit more and explain the bottom line here. What's going on and it goes back to this customer that we just had to run out to.  Why did they do what we told them not to do?  Stick around. We're getting into the battle between cybersecurity senior officers in companies, owners, business owners, and the, even the employees. There has been such a battle going on.  I saw two examples this week. Hi, everybody, it's a difficult world out there, but I find some comfort in listening to, of course, news radio. It keeps me up to date on what's going on. It helps me to really understand the world a lot better.  I mentioned that one of my guys just had to run out to a client who did something we absolutely told them not to do. They had been using this company that was a break-fix shop, I guess is the way you would put it. They had a business that would respond to problems and they charge by the hour. I think right now their hourly rate is like 160 bucks or something. It is not cheap, but anyhow, That they would sell people equipment and then move on, right? Your problems aren't my problems. Just leave me alone, go away.  It's a beautiful model because their employees at this break-fix shop don't have to understand much. They just have to know more than you do as a customer.  There's one level of understanding that you have, and for someone to appear to be an expert, all they have to do is have slightly more understanding.  That has bothered me so many times listened to the radio and they talk about somebody that's just this great expert, in reality, of course, they are not. But you don't know. That person talking about the expert doesn't know either because they just don't have enough knowledge. Of course, the person that's labeled the expert isn't going to say anything about it.  They were doing what most companies do, which is okay. We know we need a firewall, so let's get a firewall. They went out and they talked to this company and they did their Google research because of course, Dr. Google is an expert on everything.  Even with those differing opinions, you're going to go with the opinion that you like the best.  That's what they did.  They bought a Sonic wall firewall from this vendor, which was a break-fix shop. Now that's all well, and good. The sonic wall is not terrible stuff. They've got some amazing stuff as well. The problem is this device has been out of support for more than two years now. Even though they're not as advanced as some of the systems we can install, not that we always use the most advanced systems. It's not a bad, a little thing for a small business. We warned them that because they were using an out-of-date firewall that they could not get fixes for known vulnerabilities. Now that's a big deal too. Most people are not aware of the vulnerabilities that are on their machines. Do you go out every month and check the firmware versions on your firewall? You should be, even if you're a home user. Are you checking to make sure the firewall that the cable company provided you with is up to date, configured correctly? You've changed the password and the admin username, right? No?  Most people haven't. He hadn't, right. He didn't know. We told them we did a little research and said here's your problem.  That's part of his cyber health assessment. We told them what kind of firewall do you have? What's the version of software on it and we do that. We have a bunch of people that have asked for cyber health assessments. We've got them on a list because we're busy. So we have to schedule these and make them happen.  So we said, do not plug that machine in. Of course, what do they do? They plugged it back in again. So now all of a sudden this morning, we get a wake-up call from our monitors that are running they're on their  Cisco firepower firewall, where we have their extensive suite of additional software. This isn't just an off-shelf, Cisco firewall.  It's telling us that the SonicWall or something through our, via the SonicWall. Is going through all this customer's network. It's actually attacking the Cisco firewall from inside the network. Absolutely amazing. Why does that happen? In this case, the business owner, and it is a  very small business. It has about 5 million in revenue per year, I would guess.  It's a small business by every stretch. The owner just doesn't want to spend the money he doesn't absolutely have to spend. He's not looking at this saying I could lose all my intellectual property. I could get sued by these people. I could lose my clients who find out that their data was released. Their orders were released. Everything was stolen.  He looks at it and says, Oh wow. It's 200 bucks a month. Wait a minute guy, you have how many employees? You're worried about 200 bucks a month. I personally, I don't understand that. Why would you do that?  Now, you're in a poor country. Okay. I get it right. That's a lot of money to spend, but not here in the United States. Doesn't make sense.  A lot of this is really the reason I brought it up. It's showing how there is a disconnect between business owners, C-level people, and cybersecurity people. Basically, if you have less than 200 employees, you cannot afford to have your own cybersecurity team. It's impossible. It's way too expensive.  Then the numbers start to change outsourced cybersecurity, which is what we do.  We do this for this customer and. The in-house cybersecurity people, but we all have the same basic problem. The owner has a problem too, right? He has to weigh the costs of cybersecurity against the risks involved, which is what Equifax did.  What so many of these big companies do, right? There's this, the norm Equifax said it's going to be way cheaper to just pay out $10 million in fines. When we get fined by the federal government for losing everyone in the country's personal financial information then it is to do this or we're not going to bother.  Man, I'd love to see the smoking gun email on that, where they made that final decision, probably doesn't exist. They're smart enough to know that they would get sued and they have been sued because of this.  We've got another problem right now because of people working from home. I mentioned, in fact, this week, you should have gotten an email from me on Thursday. That was a little audio thing that I put together. We call these things, audiograms, and it's a kind of a video that'll play.  This particular one is about part of this problem. We've talked extensively about that water plant in Florida, that was hacked for lack of a better term. It might've been an insider thing. It might've been someone external, et cetera, et cetera. The reason it happened is that business, the water plant for a town of 15,000 people, which would be in a normal world, a small business. That small government operation was all of a sudden faced with lockdowns. What do we do? They didn't have a plan. They didn't have a business continuity plan, which is so important. I talked about it extensively last week as well. They had no way to manage this. So what did they do? They went out and bought team viewer licenses for everybody in the business. That put, well not the business, in this case, the agency, that put the agency at risk. That is putting our businesses at risk too, in such a big way. That's what the audiogram I emailed out on Thursday explaining this a bit.  So stick around. We're going to continue this conversation.   Of course,  you're listening to Craig Peterson online@craigpeterson.com. We have people working from home. We didn't really plan for this. We're doing it because of the lockdown. Maybe, you found that it's actually better for your business, from whatever angle. What are the risks here of people taking computers home? Hello. Everybody Craig, Peterson here. So glad to be with you today. Glad you're taking a few minutes out of your day as well to listen in.  Now I am very concerned about people using computers that they're taking home. I want to make a definition. Maybe there's a better way of saying this, computers that are used at home, home computers should never be used for work.  I'm going to explain why. Computers that are at work probably should not be taken home. We saw the example of this, just this last couple of weeks.  I was talking about this wonderful plugin that I've been using and recommending people use here for a very long time, called the Great Suspender. We've talked at length really about what happened there with the company being bought and then becoming evil, right? Just buying their way into 2 million people's computers.  Sometimes these Chrome extensions that are installed on personal computers get automatically installed and synchronized to your work devices. In fact, that's the default. If you log into Chrome and you're using Google Chrome as your browser and you log into it on your home computer, and when you log into your same account over on your business computer. All of a sudden, now it's syncing. It's syncing things like passwords, which you should not be having Google store for you. You should definitely be using a good password manager and there are a few out there.  If you're not familiar with them or don't know which one to use or how to use them. I have a great little special report on passwords and using password managers. I'd be glad to send it to you. Just email me@craigpeterson.com and I'll send that on-off, right? I'm not making a dime off of that. I want to make you safer.  I don't want to have happened to you what's happened to millions of Americans, including my best buddy who had his information stolen. I've been after him to use password managers. He never did it. I don't know why. Until his paycheck got stolen. Then he came over and I explained it and set it up with them and really helped him out. Maybe we should do a whole webinar showing you how to use these password managers, how to get them set up because it is a little bit tricky. It's certainly different than you're used to. Many people are using their browser Chrome in this example, to save passwords. When you go to a website, you'll automatically have the password there. Maybe you've got it set up so that it'll automatically log you in with all kinds of cool stuff. But there is a very big problem and that is that there is a huge risk with running these extensions, like the Great Suspender. The Great Suspender was approved by Google. It was in the Google store. You could download it from their app store. Absolutely free.   In January of this year in 2021, we had someone out on Twitter, tweet that there was a problem with the security on the Great Suspender. It had been changed. It was being used now to send ads out and other things. That's pretty, pretty bad. The extension wasn't banned until about a month later and you as an end-user had no official notification that this extension was potentially malicious.  Apparently, they could, with this malicious software they embedded, not just show you ad, not just insert their own ads to generate revenue onto the webpage as you were visiting, they could also grab files from your machine. That's a very bad thing.  Now, presumably, if you're at work, you have a team that's helping you outright.  The IT security team, there may be different teams and maybe the same person who also is the office manager, who knows. It does vary. Businesses cannot know what you're doing when you're starting to install those extensions and they are pushing their way onto your office computer because you're using the same Google account in both places. Now, despite the risks, of course, I installed this Great Suspender used it for years and I was pretty happy using it. I know many other people who were in the same boat. Security teams have some great tools. I mentioned my son who's one of our team members got called out to a client. During the break, I was just chatting with him briefly. What had happened is they plugged in this firewall we told them not to plugin. It was apparently hacked from the outside. It had known security vulnerabilities. He had not, this small business owner had not yet paid for maintenance on his little firewall, so he was not getting security updates. In fact, my team member looked at this and found that it had been three years since the firmware on his firewall had been updated. The bad guys got into his network through this secondary firewall, which we told them not to have not to plugin. Our firewall only noticed it because this malware started scanning everything on the network. Of course, it scanned two of our machines, one being the firewall.  Remember this isn't a regular firewall that we put in there. This is a firepower firewall with a whole bunch of extra software on top of it.  In our data center, we have some huge machines that are sitting there watching what's going on remotely. On our client's networks via that firepower firewall.  We started getting all these notices as to what was going on, but this is a great example. We're not updating some of that software. He had a security team and he ignored the security team. We were the security team. We're outsourced cybersecurity that's what we do, but that happens many times.  Many business owners and others look at the cybersecurity situation as having many different shades of gray. What should you do? What shouldn't you do? The teams that are working in these businesses, including us. We have to tell them, Hey, don't use that firewall. Do not plug it in. You don't need it. If you plug it in, it's going to make it way easier for some of your people to work from home.  This is not set up correctly and you're going to have problems. That's a difficult conversation to have with a business owner. We had it and he ignored it much to his peril. In this case, this one is hard to tell how much data was stolen from his business. The impact from this could last for months, and there could be investigations who knows what's going to end up happening here. That business owner and I, because I spoke to him as well about this whole situation before this particular event happened just about two weeks ago. In fact, that was a reminder cause they had plugged it in again. Six months before that we had told the business owner, you can't plug this thing in, you cannot be using it.  How do you do that? How do you let an impacted employee, somebody who's working from home, maybe using their own computer to do work for the business? How can you approach them and tell them, Hey, you cannot use Google Chrome?  You cannot save your passwords on your browser. You cannot install extensions. Even if you had a list of extensions today that were bad, that list is going to be out of date tomorrow, which is going to be a very big problem. Individual users do not have the ability to check this. Frankly, most businesses don't either. Again, that's why a business under 200 employees cannot afford to do this yourself. You just can't. This is a specialty.  We were talking yesterday with a prospect who had been brought to us by a break-fix shop and trying to get this concept through. We're going to talk a little bit more about that. What should you be doing? How can you pay attention? How can you even be safe in this day and age?  Hi everybody. Craig Peterson here. We've been talking about supply chain problems. That's a technical term for it, but the software that we rely on becoming evil, and what can we really do about it? Hello, everybody. You're listening to Craig Peterson.  How do you talk to a business owner and help them understand? That's a problem. Isn't it? Look at what happened a few years back with TJX stores. Them as maybe TJ max, that's one of their stores. They have a number of others. Their cybersecurity guys did something I have seen done before. That is, they went to the management of this massive public company and said, Hey, TJX, we need to get this hardware. We need to get this staffing. The hardware course pretty expensive and it sits there and it does much the same stuff. Even back then. Nowhere as good as today. It's exponential, as to how much better it gets every year, but it was good hardware.  It really could have stopped the hack that happened and it did.  Here's what it did. It noticed the hack was going on. The problem was they were able to say yes to the hardware, the senior management said yes. They got the hardware, but senior management would not get the security technicians that were needed to monitor and run that hardware. They were short-staffed.  That's another problem we're seeing. That's why the companies you're dealing with, whether it's Equifax, with who you do not have a direct business relationship with, and yet have all this information about you and sell that. Or maybe it's just some other website. That's why they lose your data. It's a real bad idea. The bad guys are just waiting out there just siphon all of your data. In many cases, when you're talking about a business and a business website, or even your home computer, they're looking to redirect you to malicious websites. What they'll do is for instance, again, the Great Suspenders' an example, that they claim it's been fixed now. With something like an extension or a plugin that you put in your browser, they could rather easily code it up so that you are going to a website that's malicious. It could look like Bank of America's website and you go there and you enter in your information. You put in your username, you put in your password, it asks you a security question. Maybe maybe not, but your username and password. Then it says incorrect. Then your screen refreshes while your screen just refreshed because you were not at the Bank of America, originally. You were at a malicious website and you entered in your username and password. Now the bad guys have your username and password to your banking system, to your login, to your bank accounts. They got that. That's all they needed. They didn't want you to know that this was going on so they just went ahead and redirected you over to the real bank website. Hence, the supposed reload.  It's a very big weakness here in how IT and security teams operate because too few security teams really can relate with the CEO and vice versa.  I've seen that all of the time with people working for me in cybersecurity, you've got a really good idea of what needs to be done, how it needs to be done when it needs to be done. To you, it's the most important thing in the world, right? You don't want the business to go under, you're going to lose your job, maybe your pension retirement plan is tied to that business. You don't want it to happen, but have you got the trust built up with the senior management?  Then how about the other side of this relationship? How about if you're a cybersecurity person? Even if, again, you're not a professional, you're just the person tasked with it in the office or you're the person tasked with it at home. How do you go to the other employees and tell them you can't use your Google Chrome account here in the office? How are you going to enforce it? How are you going to tell your husband or wife, Hey, that's dangerous? I don't want you installing any of these extensions on your computer. One of the really bad things that people do with their browsers is they put on these real fancy little extensions that give all kinds of extra wonderful information. It ends up as a toolbar and it lets you do searches on this site or that site. Maybe it keeps you up to date on the stocks that you have in your portfolio. You're telling hackers what stocks you own, really? It might be legitimate, right. But who knows? That's the problem. Something like that can really mess you up and send you to malicious sites. You know that your spouse is using that or your kids are using that. How do you talk to them? How do you solve those problems? It's a real problem.  There are some interesting tools that you can use, as professionals. There's a Slack channel I can send you to, if you're interested, actually, it'll be in the newsletter that comes out on Sunday. At least it should be under one of those articles. It is a problem.  Netflix, by the way, is really trying to help you out too. Not only did the Netflix security team provide some feedback for what's called the honest security guide, but it's also made some of its user tools, the tools that you might use at your home to find a movie, et cetera, it might help really to secure you.  Git Hub has this. It is called, this is a Netflix skunkworks, the stethoscope app. It's a desktop application created by Netflix that checks security-related settings and makes recommendations for improving the configuration of your computer. It doesn't require central device management or reporting. You can have a look at that. If you are interested, let me know. I can probably point you in the right direction to the stethoscope app. That's what we want to see in this honest security guide. You'll find it online. At honest security is a guide to your devices, security, which in the biz we call endpoint security and it is cool. You can run through all of this list is a big checklist and talking about why honest, and they're saying dishonesty stops you from doing the right thing.  That's why in my courses, I spend a lot of time, more time in fact, on the why than the how.  I want you to understand honestly, why you should or should not do something. There are so many people who are out there yelling and screaming, jumping up and down. Particularly your antivirus companies. You fake VPN companies who are trying to get you to buy their products that not only do not need in most cases but will actually make your computer less secure.  So we have to be careful about all of this stuff. We have to make sure we are talking. We've got to have a trust relationship set up with the owners of our business. Cause you guys, some of you, I know own businesses, some of you work for a business. We've got people listening to this all over the world and every continent I've even seen a listener down in Antarctica.  I really can say every continent. It's important that we know how to work with our fellow employees, with our management, with our family members, to help them to know what they need to do.  There is no time to wait. We have never seen as many attacks as we're seeing now. We've never seen the government using its resources to attack us more than we have now. We've never seen more billions of dollars stolen per year by the bad guys. There are some basic tenants that you can follow that will make you way more secure. And that's why you're listening. That's why I go through some of these things to help everybody understand.  That's also why I go ahead and make sure that I answer your emails. If you have a question, make sure you go ahead and ask. You can just email me at me@craigpeterson.com. If it's something urgent, I have a form on the bottom of my homepage  @craigpeterson.com. You can give me a little bit more information. I tend to keep an eye on that a little bit better than my general email, although I do use some amazing email software that helps me to keep track of the real email and get rid of the spam and put things in boxes and stuff  craigpeterson.com. It's that simple email me me@craigpeterson.com. If you have questions.  I hope that Google is going to continue to improve itself. I love the fact that they found out that this one extension was malicious. For those of you who might've just tuned in, we're talking about something called the Great Suspender something I've used for years, it became malicious, but they need to do more.  As people who are concerned about security, we just can't wait for the next incident. Just again, this client of mine, who we've been warning about this for months, he's stopped doing what we told him to do, and then decided well it's just too difficult. That's something we hear a lot from businesses. Oh, it just hampers the work. It hampers it because now we have to get permission from it in order to mount this particular drive or gain access to those files or materials. Yes you do, because we have to stop the internal spread of all of this malware and all of these hackers.  It is absolutely worth it.  All right, everybody. Thanks again for joining me today. I really hope you've been enjoying this. I have years' worth of podcasts out there and you'll find all of those at craigpeterson.com/podcast or on your favorite podcast platform.  If you subscribed under iTunes, you might've noticed, ah, yeah, I just released a whole batch there too. I expressed concerns about owning an Apple watch. I held off for a long time. I want to talk about these devices now, the security concerns, but also the amazing health tools that are built right in. Hey, welcome back. This Apple watch is really fascinating. It has been around now for six generations. There are a number of other watches that have had, or tried, I should say, to compete with Apple. They haven't been very successful. You might've noticed that. I have a friend that bought some watches for his family and to him that monitor all of the basic vitals and record them and send them up to his phone. It's a 20-ish dollar watch. He got it from South Korea probably are parts made in China, but it is an inexpensive watch and it does some of the basics at the other end of the scale. Let's have a look right now. I'm going to go to apple.com online, and we're going to click on watch. Here we go, Oh, my they've got special watches so you can buy their watches. It looks like the new one, the Apple watch series six for starting at 400 bucks or they have two different sizes. . They have a more basic watch called the Apple Watch SE that starts at about $300. You can still get the Apple watch series three. Now, these all can monitor high and low heart rates. They can give you irregular heart rhythm notification, but it's only a-fib atrial fibrillation, I think is the only one they can monitor, but all three of those can monitor that. As I said, my buddy's watches, he got for his family at 20 bucks apiece are able to do most of that as well.  These are water-resistant to 50 meters, which is really cool. The series six also has an ECG app. That is very cool. You open the app, you put your finger on the crown of the watch and it gives you an EKG right there on the watch and it feeds it to your phone. On your phone, you can turn it into a PDF. You can share it with your doctor on and on. It's just amazing. It's a three-lead type, I was in emergency medicine, right? A med-tech EMT, EMT-PD can't remember. I had a whole bunch of different certifications back in the day. But it's fantastic for that. It also has a blood oxygen app that monitors your blood oxygen levels. It ties all of this into their new exercise app, which is amazing. That ties into your phone or your iPad.  I will go down in the basement onto the treadmill and I'll select your treadmill workout.  It has dozens of them. Have you seen this really fancy treadmill? A couple of years ago they got in all kinds of trouble because they advertised it around Christmas time and apparently this woman really wanted a treadmill and she got one and she was all excited. All of these people jumped out of the woodwork. All your you're saying she's fat, et cetera. No, she wanted a treadmill. These are amazing treadmills because they have built into them. These streams and you can join classes, et cetera. With the Apple Watch, my iPad, and a subscription to this iHealth app, which you can get as part of this Apple plus thing you can buy for 30 bucks for the whole family, 30 bucks a month.  I don't know how many I have seen probably a hundred different workouts on there.  It has different workouts, different types of weightlifting, running, jogging, treadmills, elliptical machines, everything.  You can pick your pace. You can pick your instructor, you can pick everything. Then your Apple watch is monitoring your body. As you're working out. So it's telling you how many calories you've burned. What's your heart rate is to help keep your heart rate in the best range for you, depending on what kind of a workout you're doing. It also lets you compete against other people. Does this sound like an ad for the Apple watch?  You can compete with other people your age doing the same workout and see where you're at. I was really surprised because typically I am at the front of the pack when it comes to my treadmill workouts. That's really cool as well. Those are some of the basics. There are other things too, that Apple is doing. We've found, right now, that Mount Sinai just came out with an announcement and they said that the Apple watch can predict COVID 19 diagnosis up to a week before testing can detect it. Yes. Isn't that something? Not only can the Apple watch help with certain heart arrhythmias, but it can predict that you have COVID-19 too a week before testing normal testing. Those swabs can find it out.  This is from the journal of medical internet research, which is a peered review journal. And they found that wearable hardware and specifically the Apple watch can effectively predict a positive COVID-19 diagnosis up to a week before the current PCR-based nasal swab tests. They called this the warrior watch study. They had a dedicated Apple watch and the iPhone app, and they had some participants from the Mount Sinai staff and it required, of course, these staff members to use the app to turn on the health and data monitoring and collection, and also asked them to fill out a survey every day to provide some feedback about their potential COVID-19 symptoms. As well as other things like stress can obviously make your heart rate, go up your blood pressure, go up, et cetera. Oh. By the way, Apple, supposedly the rumors are, we'll have a BP sensor in the Apple seven that'll be out later this year, most likely.  So they had several hundred healthcare workers and the primary biometric signal. I know that the studies authors were watching was heart rate variability. This is fascinating to me because it's something that I learned about fairly recently. Then when I got my Apple watch, I read up more about this, but basically, heart rate variability is what it sounds like. It's your heart rate. Let's say your heart is beating at 60 beats per minute. It is not beating once every 10 seconds.  It is not beating once a second. Your heart rate will vary over the course of that minute. If you're healthy.  Obviously, a beat every 10 seconds isn't 60 a minute. Let's use that as an example. Somebody who's almost dead and has six beats per minute. The first heartbeat might be at 10 seconds. The second heartbeat might be at 22 seconds because your heart is supposed to vary its rate of contractions based on immediate feedback. It's not just that you're going out in your running and now you've driven up your heart rate and you're doing your cardio and it or you just walked up a flight of stairs or you stood up, which is another test, by the way, what we're talking about here. You might just be sitting there, but your cells have a different need for oxygen or for the blood. The heart slows down slightly or speeds up slightly.  This heart rate variability is something built into the Apple watch and into the iPhone app that you attach to the Apple watch. Isn't that useful without an iPhone, frankly? Then you can look at your heart rate variability right there.  They said, combining that with the symptoms that people reported, these Mount Sinai staff, that the symptoms that they reported that were associated with COVID-19 including fever, aches, dry cough, gastrointestinal issues, loss of taste and smell corresponded with changes in the heart rate variability. I thought that was just absolutely phenomenal because heart rate variability is considered to be a key indicator of strain on your nervous system. COVID-19 obviously is going to put a strain on the nervous system. Just very neat.  It says here that the study was not only able to predict infections up to a week before tests provided confirmed diagnosis but also revealed that participants' heart rate variability patterns normalized fairly quickly after their diagnosis or turning to normal run about one to two weeks following their positive tests. That's from a TechCrunch, that particular quote.   I am very excited about this, but I am also on the concerned side. I'm concerned because they are collecting vital data from us. All of the major companies, Google and Microsoft and Apple want to be the company that holds all of your personal medical records. We're going to get back to that when we come back here. What is happening? How is your doctor managing your medical records? I was really shocked to find out how that industry is working.  Of course, you're listening to Craig Peterson. Check it out online. Craig peterson.com. Welcome back. What are you doing? Are you asking your doctor how they are handling your medical records? Because I think you probably should based on what I learned just this week. Hi everybody. Craig Peterson here. Thanks for joining me.  We were just talking about health. We're talking about the Apple watch and the fact that there's a lot of competitors out there, some of them, a fraction of the cost. If you buy the Apple watch on terms, you're going to pay less in one month's payment on terms to Apple than you would for some of these other watches out there, but Apple watches do have more features.  Mine even has a built-in cellular modem. Even if I don't have my phone with me, phone calls come through to my watch and text messages, and I can respond and answer. It's really nice. Medically I am very impressed. It has been good at motivating me to do some exercise, to get up, and about just to do a bunch of things I had never, ever done before. Consider that.  It is collecting our data. Apple now has potential access to all of my cardiac data. They've got EKGs that I have run on my watch. They know about my heart rate. They know how often I exercise, and how hard I exercise when I exercise. They know all of this stuff about me. I had a conversation with someone just saying why does that matter? Maybe it's Apple, maybe it's somebody else. Why does it matter?  It does matter. Think about an evil genius, right? The thing about somebody that might want to target Americans and might want medical information about Americans. They can gather it in a number of different ways. We're going to talk about medical records here in a little bit. One of the things they could certainly do is grab all of our watch data. Some of these watches, including my Apple watch, have GPS built into them. When you're out running or jogging, you know where you went, you can plan your route and it'll remind you, Hey, turn here, turn there. That's one of the things I love about the Apple Watch when I'm using it with Apple maps out driving, it taps me on the wrist and reminds me, Hey, in 500 feet, you got to turn.  If I look at the watch, it'll even show me the turn I need to make coming up in 500 feet. It's really amazing. All of this information is being compiled and hopefully, it's being compiled by a company that we can trust. At this point, we can probably trust Apple. Hopefully, they're not going to be broken into. Now, their margins or profit is high enough that they certainly can afford a security team, one capable of defending them and defending our data. I hope they are. I suspect that they are for the most part. How about some of these others? We know Google, for instance, is in the business of collecting and selling our information, is having all of our medical information. Not just the stuff from our watches, but the stuff from our doctors. Are they to be trusted with that kind of information? Going back to that bad guy, that mad scientist we can, and probably do engineer viruses that are targeted at specific things. In fact, the Russians have been doing it. The Soviets' started it, they came up with a phage. That can attack certain viruses and it acts like a virus it gets in and does this little thing. We've got right now, these COVID-19 vaccines and they act like a virus they're messing with, well effectively, the DNA. In fact, it's the RNA, but it's pretending, Hey, I got a message from the DNA, here it is.  What if a bad guy knew that are a certain population in a certain area, and that area was right by this important military base or whatever they came up with something that would target them and they'd have all of the data to do it now. That's obviously an extreme example. A more common example would be that your medical data is there. It's being sold to advertisers and you're going to end up with something.  For instance, there's a company, very big company out there and they sell baby products. What they did was they tracked and they bought this information, but they tracked women who were purchasing certain things. Now, they weren't purchasing things that were directly related to having a baby, right? They weren't purchasing diapers or little jumpsuits or whatever it is. They were purchasing things that were not directly related maybe people wouldn't even think they were typically related to having a baby. Yet they were able to figure this out. They got that good with the data.  So they thought, Oh, okay let's get wise here. Let's send out a postcard, congratulating them on their pregnancy and offering them a discount on something. Yeah. Not a bad idea, frankly.  However, in this case, some of these moms I hadn't told anybody that they were pregnant yet and didn't want to tell anybody that they were pregnant yet. It fell on its face. Didn't it?  How about these ambulance-chasing lawyers that are out there? Are they going to want to gain access to this, to your medical records?  How about your employer? Your employer wants to know I'm going to train this person. Hopefully, they'll stick with us for a while, but is he going to be a burden on our medical plan? Keyman insurance, health insurance, life insurance. Have access to everything about you. That's what really concerns me about these, all of these devices.  Right now, pretty confident that I can give Apple this information and they will keep it pretty safe. But, I said the same thing about the Great Suspender, right? I don't know about the future.  Then I found something out this week that was in my mind extremely disturbing. We have a new clinic that we've picked up as a client. They needed to have security. They had a couple of little security issues. They were worried. They knew they were not HIPAA compliant. They approached us because they know that's what we do is cybersecurity and audits and remediation. Fixing the problems. We pick them up. They're a client. We're in there. They had told us in advance that all of their medical record systems were on-line. It was on the web. All they needed was a web browser to run their business. Okay. That could be a problem. It might be okay. The medical records manufacturer might have good security on all of the records. So we may be safe, although in HIPAA unless you have a business process agreement in place with that vendor if that data is lost, it falls back on the doctor's shoulders. Anyhow, what I found out was, first of all, it wasn't completely web-based, which just shocked me. I'm not talking about they have to scan records or they got the x-ray machine or whatever. It really wasn't web-based and secondarily the company they were using for the medical records was a free service.  The doctor, that clinic, was not paying for their medical records management software.  The way it works is this medical records management company when the doctor prescribes something when the doctor performs a procedure and bills and insurance company, it's all done through this one company and that company takes a chunk of their money. In some cases we found seems to have been inflating the bills that went off to the insurance companies and that, as it turns out is a common practice in the industry. According to the doctors at this clinic, I was shocked, amazed.  Something you might want to look at. Ask your doctors where are your records kept and are they secure? Now we had HIPAA. We thought that would secure it, but it doesn't.  Stick around. Hey, we got a name now for what happened to the Great Suspender and QR code scanner apps over on the Google stores. One at Google Play, the other one over on the Google Chrome store. It's become that popular. Hey, everybody, I wanted to mention this whole new category of malware really, and they're calling it, right now, Buy to infect. What happens is a bad guy, a malware guy buys a legitimate app and then starts infecting it.  We know, obviously, about the one that I've been talking about a lot the Google extension that I used to use all of the time, the Great Suspender. I mentioned this one a few weeks ago, it's called QR code scanner. It's been on the Google play store for a long time, had more than 10 million installs and then all of a sudden it became malicious.  This is a little bit of a different angle on it because, with the Great Suspender, the ownership of that software actually transferred to somebody. With QR code scanner, they were working on a deal with a company and this company wanted to verify the Google play account for QR code scanner. This is all according to the owner, the original owner of QR code scanner.  They said that what had happened is part of this purchase deal. I let them have a look and gain access to the software's key and password prior to purchase so they could confirm the purchase, which doesn't sound too bad. Apparently, as soon as they got a hold of the software's key and password, forget about the purchase, we're going to start infecting it right away.  It ended up getting that app, the QR code scanner app, pulled right from the Google play score store. Of course, now you don't need that quite as much because most of the phone apps when you go to take a picture, the camera apps have built into them, a QR code scanner.  I thought that was fascinating what they did. They totally cheated the company. They didn't even bother buying it. So a little word for the wise out there.  Got another Apple story cause this is showing how the computer industry is really shifting. We've talked about some of the shortages of chips and the shortages of computer chips are so bad that General Motors has had to shut down two-thirds of its manufacturing lines in at least one plant.  Every major automobile manufacturer is having problems making cars because they can't get the chips.  Remember nowadays, a car, a truck is essentially just a computer on wheels. Not really actually computer on wheels. It's really dozens of computers all linked together with a network on wheels.  Apple has been worried about that, right? Supply chain. That's one of the things you're supposed to worry about as a public company. What are the risks going forward including to my supply chain? Obviously your supply chain matters. You gotta be able to make something you need parts, right?  Apple has been upset with Intel for a while. You might remember Apple. When it first came out, was using a Motorola chipset, which was exceptional much better than the Intel chipsets.  Of course, that's my opinion, a lot of people agree with me. You had the 68000, 68010, and 20, et cetera. Very good chips.  When Apple started getting into the laptop business, that's when the problems started to happen.  These Motorola chips gave off a lot of heat and used up a lot of electricity.  At the time Apple looked around and said our only real alternative right now is Intel. Intel has a whole line of chips, different speeds, and they have mobile chips.  Those mobile chips use much less power than the Motorola chips for the main CPU.  They also use less battery. Those two go hand in hand and generate less heat. That's it all goes hand in hand. So they said, we'll start working with Intel. They did. Intel really disappointed them more than once, which is a shame. They disappointed them with the 64-bit migration. AMD, advanced micro devices, beat Intel to the punch. Shockingly Intel started making AMD compatible CPUs right. The 64-bit extensions to the CPU were AMD extensions. They had problems with some of their other chips as well. Mobile chips getting the power usage under control, the heat dissipation problems under control, and they never really lived up to what Apple was hoping for. What everybody in the industry was hoping for. In many ways, Intel has been a huge disappointment, which is really a shame.  We'll look at what they did to the industry, with these predictive instructions, the hyper-threading, and stuff. Where bad guys were able to bring a computer to its knees.  What does Intel say? Here's a firmware patch you can apply to our CPU, those little CPUs you pay upwards of $2,000 for a piece for one chip.  Those CPU's and by the way, it's going to, cut its performance by a minimum of 20%, maybe 50%, that's okay. What are you kidding me?  A lot of people were upset with Intel and Apple and Microsoft and everybody released patches that use the new Intel microcode. You might've noticed when this happened a couple of years ago that your computer slowed down. I certainly noticed, actually, it was little more than a year, anyway, I noticed it because I own a data center. That has a lot of Intel chips in it where we're running mostly Unixes, Linux, and BSD, but we're also running Windows. So the only way to work around this bug was to apply the patch and slow everything way, way down.  Imagine how Apple and Google felt with their huge data centers. IBM too. IBM has Intel-based data centers, as well as its own chips, and boy talking about phenomenal chips, as far as processing power goes, IBM, man, they are still the leader with the power chips and their Z series. That just wow. Mind-blowing.  Most of us are stuck in the Intel world. Apple said we can no longer trust Intel. So what are we going to do? Apple said we've been developing this chip for a long time. Apple took the chip design, they licensed it from this open sourcee type of company that has a number of members. They took this arm architecture and were able to improve it, and keep adding to it, et cetera.  They're still part of this Alliance. They started using these in their iPhones. The iPhones have been using these chips the whole time and they started improving them after they released the first iPhones.  Intel didn't really get them upset until a little later on, too. They came up with newer ones, faster ones, better ones, right to all of these A10 their bionic chips. They've got AI chips, machine learning chips, all Apple designed. Chips, of course, manufactured by third parties, but that's what Apple is using.  Apple has now said we expect all of their Macintosh computers to be based on Apple's CPU within the next two years.  There's already some really good ones out there right now that people like a lot. We've been using them with some of our clients that use Apple. Not everybody has had great luck with them, but Apple is not only ditching Intel, that's not the big story here. Apple's got some job listings out there looking to hire engineers.  So when we get back, we'll tell you more about what Apple is doing and what frankly, I think the rest of the industry should look at. Guess what? They are. It's been Intel versus the rest of the world. They've been winning for years in many categories, but now they're starting to lose, as major manufacturers are starting to leave Intel behind. But there's more to the story still. Hi, everybody.. Craig Peterson here. Thanks for tuning in. We're glad you're here.  In the last segment of the day, I want to point everybody to the website, of course. You can get my newsletter. It comes out every Sunday morning and it highlights one of the articles of the week. It gives you a pointer to my podcast. So you can listen right there. There's just a lot of great information. Plus I'm also doing little training. I'm sending out, hopefully, next week, two little training sessions for everybody to help you understand security a little better, and this applies to business. However, it's not. Strictly business, much of what I talk about is also for home users. So if you want to go along for the ride, come along, we'd be glad to have you. There's a lot to understand and to know that you won't get from anywhere else. It's just amazing. Many other of these radio shows where they are just nothing but fluff and commercials and paid promotions. I'm just shocked at it. It goes against my grain when that sort of thing happens. Absolutely.  We were just talking about Apple and how Apple got upset with Intel, but they're not the only ones upset. We also now have seen a lot of manufacturers who have started producing Chromebooks and surface tablets that are based on chip sets other than Intel's. This is going to be a real problem for Intel. Intel has almost always relied, certainly in the later years has relied on Microsoft and people bought Intel because they wanted Windows. That's the way that goes. It's just like in the early days, people bought an Apple too, because they wanted a great little VisiCalc, the spreadsheet program.  Now, what we're seeing are operating systems that do not require a single line of Microsoft software. Google Chrome is a great example of it. Linux is another great example and people are loving their Google Chrome laptops, and you can buy these laptops for as little as 200 bucks. Now you get what you pay for and all the way up to a couple of grand and they don't have a line single line of Microsoft code. Yet you can still edit Word documents and Excel documents, et cetera. They do not contain any Intel hardware. What was called, well, they might have a chip here or there, but not the main CPU. What used to be called the Wintel monopoly. In other words, Windows-Intel monopoly is dying. It's dying very quickly.  Apple is not helping now. Apple, they've had somewhere between seven and 10% market share in the computer business for quite a while. Personally, I far prefer Apple Macintoshes over anything else out there by far.  I use them every day. So that's me.  I don't know about you. There's a little bit of a learning curve. Although people who aren't that computer literate find it easier to learn how to use a Mac than to learn how to use Windows, which makes sense.  Apple has really done a great job. A bang-up job. With these new chips, it's getting even faster. We are now finding out from a report from Bloomberg who first started these, that Apple has been posting job listings, looking for engineers to work on 6G technology. 6G, right now we're rolling out 5g, which hasn't been a huge win because of the fact that if you want really fast 5g, like the type Verizon provides, you have to have a lot of micro-cell sites everywhere. They have to be absolutely everywhere.  Of course, it's just not financially reasonable to put them up in smaller communities. If the Biden administration continues the way they're going with the FCC and the open internet type thing of a-bits-a-bit, then there will be no incentive for any of these carriers to expand their networks because they can't charge more for better service. If you can imagine that. Ajit Pai fought against that for many years, Trump's appointee as chairman to the FCC, but things are changing. The wind has changed down in Washington, so we'll lose some of those jobs and we're not going to get all of the benefits of 5g. If he keeps us up. 6G is coming.   What that means is Qualcomm, who is the manufacturer of record for most of the modems that are in our cell phones. Qualcomm has also missed some deadlines. Apple is tired of dependencies on third parties because Qualcomm might have somebody else that buys way more chips. It might be able to sell the same chip to the military of whatever country for a much, much higher price. They can sell it to consumers. Maybe they just change the label on it and call it a mill spec, and often goes right, who knows? What they're doing out there, but Apple doesn't want to do that anymore. They are looking for engineers to define and perform the research for the next generation standards of wireless communications, such as 6G The ads say you will research and design next-generation 6G wireless communication systems for radio access networks with emphasis on the physical Mac L two and L three layers. Fascinating, eh? What do you think?  I think a huge deal as Apple continues to ditch, many of its vendors that have not been living up to the standards Apple has set.  Apple has moved some of the manufacturing back to the United States. More of the assembly has been moved here. The manufacturing, it's starting to come back again. We'll see the Trump administration really wanted it here.  We need it here, not just for jobs, we needed it here for our security. We've talked about that before, too, right? I want to also point out speaking of Apple and manufacturing, China, of course, does most of it for Apple and Foxconn is the company in China that makes almost all of this stuff for Apple. It's huge. Foxconn owns cities. Huge cities. They have high rises where people basically don't see the light of day, these high rise factories. You live there, you eat there, you shop there, you work there.  Like the old company store who is it, Tennessee Ernie, right? Owe my soul to the company store. That's what's happening over there. And Foxconn has kept its costs low by bringing people in from the fields, if you will, out there being farmers and paying them extremely low wages. On top of all of that, in some cases they're using slave labor. I found this article very interesting, from Ars Technica's, Timothy B. Lee. He's talking about a potential partnership between Apple and Nissan. Let me remember. I mentioned Apple talking with Kia and Kia is denying it. The financial times reported on Sunday that this potential deal between Apple and Nissan fell apart because Apple wanted Nissan to build Apple cars, they would have the Apple logo on them. They all be branded Apple. It wouldn't say Nissan unless you took something seriously apart you might find it inside.  Nissan wanted to keep the Nissan brand on its own vehicles. Bloomberg reported last week that the negotiations with Kia and of course its parent companies Huyndaiin South Korea had ended without a deal. The Financial Times said that Apple has also sounded out BMW as a potential partner because Apple doesn't make cars. So how are they going to do this? Apparently the talks faltered with Apple and Nissan because Nissan had a fear and apparently this is true of Kia too, of becoming quote the Foxconn of the auto industry, unquote, which is a reference to this Chinese well it's Taiwanese technically, but a group that manufacturers are while actually assembles the iPhones. Fascinating. Isn't it fascinating.  When you start to dig into this self-driving technology and the numbers behind it, that's where you wonder, why is Apple even trying at this point, Apple's test vehicles only traveled 18,000 miles on California roads. Between 2019 and 2020, or over the course of about a year, late in both years. 18,000 miles in a year.

In this episode, Founder of Science PT, Dr. Erik Meira, PT, DPT, talks about his campaign platform as the President-Elect of the American Academy of Sports Physical Therapy, and the many components of this platform. Today, Erik talks about his roles within the academy over the past 15 years, his formal 5-year strategic plan, creating an executive board separate from the executive committee, and creating a research agenda. What is the overarching vision for the academy? Who is on the executive committee, and how is the executive board chosen? Erik elaborates on organisational structures and boundaries, and embracing the tenets of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, all on today’s episode of The Healthy, Wealthy & Smart Podcast.   Key Takeaways “If you look at any 1 or 2 year period, it’ll look like things are getting done, but when you look over a longer period of time, you’ll see a lot of what gets published kind of has a circular nature to it.” “You have to build the boundaries of your sandbox, and then let the person play in the sandbox.” “Not every great presenter is a great leader, and not every great leader is a great presenter.” “Not everybody wants to keep progressing and keep pursuing, and somebody stepping back should not be slighted and that should not be seen as a negative.” “Somebody turning something down today does not mean that you shouldn’t offer it to them tomorrow.” “Nobody can be you better than you. Remember that. And that goes two ways - remember that the person that you’re talking to is also not you. They don’t have a brain that works like you, thinks like you, and sees things like you, and they’re trying to be the best person that they are as well.” “We all have different perspectives, and that’s okay.”   More about Erik Meira Erik Meira is a consultant physical therapist in Portland, Oregon. He is a Board Certified Sports Clinical Specialist and an NSCA Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist with extensive experience in the management of sports injuries at many different levels. He also created and oversees the PT Podcast Network. The son of an engineer and a school teacher, he developed a love of science at a young age often running home experiments comparing/contrasting the effectiveness of products such as detergents and preservatives. Before beginning physical therapy school he studied philosophy and psychology while geeking out on chemistry and physics courses. Although he follows medical science professionally, he is a fan of all fields of science, particularly particle physics and astrophysics. He began his rehab training at the University of Florida where he had the opportunity to be a student athletic trainer with Gator Football. After finishing his physical therapy degree, he moved on to The George Washington University Hospital in Washington, DC where he overhauled the patient education program and became a physical therapy adviser to the GWU Medical School. After moving to Portland, OR he started his own private practice Elite Physical Therapy & Sports Medicine now called Black Diamond Physical Therapy. He also founded and directed the Northwest Society for Sports Medicine, a group of regional sports medicine providers who provided continuing education, professional support, and community outreach in the Pacific Northwest. Erik is extremely active in the American Academy of Sports Physical Therapy (AASPT), currently serving as the Representative at Large on the Executive Committee. In 2008 he helped initiate, organize, and then chair the Hip Special Interest Group. From 2012-2019, he was the Sports Section Program Chair for Combined Sections Meeting (CSM) for AASPT. He has authored several articles and textbook chapters, and has lectured at conferences around the world sponsored through the National Strength and Conditioning Association, American Physical Therapy Association, and the National Athletic Trainers’ Association, covering topics such as the hip, knee, shoulder, exercise prescription, returning athletes to sport, science application, and ethics in practice. He is a frequent consultant to professional and collegiate sports teams and individual professional athletes.   Suggested Keywords AACPT, Campaign, Opportunities, Strategy, Learning, Sports, Physiotherapy, Research, PT, Health, Therapy, Architecture, DEI, Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, Problem-Solving,   To learn more, follow Erik at: Website:          https://thesciencept.com Podcast:          https://ptinquest.com                         https://ptpodcast.com Instagram:       @erikmeirapt Twitter:            @erikmeira   Subscribe to Healthy, Wealthy & Smart: Website:                      https://podcast.healthywealthysmart.com Apple Podcasts:          https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/healthy-wealthy-smart/id532717264 Spotify:                        https://open.spotify.com/show/6ELmKwE4mSZXBB8TiQvp73 SoundCloud:               https://soundcloud.com/healthywealthysmart Stitcher:                       https://www.stitcher.com/show/healthy-wealthy-smart iHeart Radio:               https://www.iheart.com/podcast/263-healthy-wealthy-smart-27628927   Read the Full Transcript Here:  Speaker 1 (00:01): Hey, Eric, welcome to the podcast. I am happy to have you on. Speaker 2 (00:06): Thank you so much, Karen. It's a, an honor to be here. Speaker 1 (00:10): I know it's so nice to see you, even though we're not in person, hopefully one of these one of these years, maybe next year fingers crossed. We'll be able to see each other in person. Speaker 2 (00:20): Yep. Fingers crossed for sure. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. It's I can only do so much zoom. I so much prefer being in person with people to do to do conversations and to do a teaching as well. Speaker 1 (00:32): Oh yeah. Teaching is, I mean, what a, it's just a whole different ball game when you're on zoom or whatever platform you're using. So Eric, today, you're on the podcast to talk about your campaign platform. So for people who don't know, Eric is a present elect candidate for the American Academy of sports physical therapy, which is part of the American physical therapy association. Did I get all that right? Speaker 2 (01:05): Yes, that's right. We're one of the academies, one of the components of the AP TA. Speaker 1 (01:09): Right? So you are here to talk about your campaign platform. So I'm going to hand the mic over to you and I want you to let the listeners know what are the components of your campaign platform? Speaker 2 (01:24): Sure. I, I, I really appreciate that. Yeah. So first to clarify, some people have the question, what's the difference between a president and a president elect and for the for the American Academy of sports, physical therapy, the AAS PT our president is elected to serve one term as the president elect. So kind of the president and waiting under the current president for one year, so that the transition is smoother when that happens and then they serve a three-year term after that. And so a little bit of my background is I've, I've been involved in I've been involved with the Academy for, for, you know, well, over a decade, I've been in leadership positions within the Academy continuously for the last 15 years. And so that's everything from just being a member of a, of a committee moving up to, I founded a special interest group. Speaker 2 (02:17): I then was the chair of a special interest group moved on to be the, the section programming chair. So I was involved with all of the the academies program at combined sections meeting did that for about six years. And then the last two years I'd been serving on the executive committee as a representative at large. So I have a, I have a huge history with this Academy and a lot of the things that a lot of the changes that have been made over those last 15 years, I've been very involved with and really trying to move things forward. And so one of the reasons I'm running for, for president elect at this point point is to try to kind of complete the mission, so to speak and, and really help set the Academy up for, for the future. We're, we're coming up on 50 years of, of existing as an Academy. Speaker 2 (03:08): Or as a component, we used to be a section like most of the other components. And now what I'm looking for is, you know, what's the next 50 years look like, are we set up for, for that future? So the first thing that I'd like to, I actually have five points that I'm highlighting for my campaign. The first one is I would like to create a formal five-year strategic plan that systematically, it gives us something to systematically work towards for our goals over time. And, and so, you know, the Academy has traditionally had strategic planning as a component of what it does, but it has never actually put forward a formal announcement to the members to say in five years, this is where we would like to be as, as a target. And that's something that I think can be really useful for, for a component to have to give a little bit of guidance to. Speaker 1 (04:05): And if, if you are elected, how will you go about implementing that? Speaker 2 (04:10): Yeah, so a five-year strategic plan. So currently the executive committee does a strategic planning meeting once a year to set basically the agenda for the next year. And so what this would be is actually sitting down and going over where would we want to be in the next five years? And that would be a process of, of actually first, you know, surveying the members, talking to members, trying to get that information of where are we going to go, want to go pitching ideas to the members, to get some feedback from that and then putting it together and setting it forward. And, and again, you'll notice it's a five-year plan. Our terms are only three years. And so that's kind of the point is something that outlives any one executive committee and is something that really is looking to kind of go past that one. Speaker 2 (04:57): One of the other points that I'm kind of looking at exploring is creating a separate executive board separate from the executive committee, which is an organizational strategy that a couple of other components have used as well, but it's also very common in associations in general. And so the idea there would be you know, I, I see this in the future as being something that the executive committee would work to create a five-year strategic plan. And then that would be reviewed by an executive board who would then have potentially have voting power to to approve such a plan and, and look at going through implementing the strategy. Speaker 1 (05:36): And so can you tell the listeners what, what is made up of the executive committee, who is on that executive committee within the organization, and then how would that executive board be chosen? Speaker 2 (05:52): So right now the Academy just has an executive committee and a lot of times within the Academy, they use the term executive board and executive committee interchangeably. And that's not always the case necessarily. So our current executive committee is made up of five elected positions. They are the main elected positions of the Academy. The other elected positions are our nominating committee. And so these are the elected officials. There's five of them and they, they make all, they do all the decision-making for the Academy. And that's, I mean, that's great. You want people who are voted in to be making the decisions you don't want, just, you know, all appointments across the board like that. And so the problem that that sometimes can create is, you know, they get into, they can get into the weeds of dealing with the nuance and the details and all of these things. Speaker 2 (06:44): And a lot of times decisions, especially in a large component like ours sometimes they're very nuanced, complex, challenging. They're not easy to kind of educate out on a sound so to speak. And so what an executive board would do first off that would be made up of all of the members of the executive committee would also serve on the board. But then you add additional members that are representative of the rest of the Academy to allow additional conversations that would happen like once a year, for example, of all right, we've been working on a bunch of stuff for the last year. Here's what we're going to bring forward. And again, this would be, this is how it's working towards our five-year plan. This is the, these are the issues. Here's a really tough decision that we're up against that we've had lots of conversations we brought in outside consultants. Speaker 2 (07:35): We've, we've had again, conversations after conversations, and now we need to convince the board that this decision is the right decision. And the example here would be well, if that board disagrees, this is where again, these are things that would have to be figured out in designing a board. Would they have the authority to block an executive committee or would it just be, Hey, we're just going to go on down on record that we don't think this is a good idea. And the board, you know, is, is doing this alone. And again, just, just being a little more transparent with that. So those other members, you would want it to, you know, you think of all the different components of a, of an Academy. And, you know, we have, like, we have practice, we have research, we have education within our Academy, we also have early career professionals. Speaker 2 (08:26): We also have diversity equity and inclusion as its own part of it. And then we have our SIGs as well. So I could see a representative from, from, you know, all those different committees. So, you know, practice research these could be, the chairs would sit on that and, and there could be a conversation about whether or not those would become elected right now, they're appointed positions and then and DEI and early career professional. So we get all of those voices having a strong voice and then maybe a, an at-large position, which could be a SIG chair, or a couple of SIG chairs could serve in that role there. And, and then, you know, they kind of get that opportunity to be heard, but again, it's still kind of behind closed doors, but it expands that ability to have those conversations out and, and get more advising for an executive committee. Speaker 1 (09:18): Got it. And, and because the you've got the, these people on an executive board that are part of these different sections within the Academy, I would then imagine that you can get some more input and feedback from the members. So it sounds like, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. You're trying to allow the members of the Academy have a bigger voice in the decisions made by the, by the executive board. Speaker 2 (09:43): Exactly. Cause one of the issues we have is, you know, we have an Academy that's, you know, seven between seven and 8,000 members in any given time during the year, there are definitely fluctuations and all being represented by five people and five people that, you know, yes, they were elected their position and they do know a lot of people within the Academy. They can go talk to those people, but then you have a tendency of just talking to the friends of the executive committee, for example. And so the more, the more kind of diverse voices you can get into the conversation the better. And, and again, if you have an executive board that has a very unified voice, well, that's a very strong position that you would be taking as opposed to a more divisive type position than these would be things that would probably have to have more of a conversation. Speaker 1 (10:28): Okay. All right. I like it. Let's move on to, you've got, you said you had a, a couple of things within your plan. So we talked about a five year strategic plan and executive board. What else? Speaker 2 (10:40): So the other thing I'd love to see is creating a research agenda and that would be to kind of lay a roadmap for the research needs of our members and explore our ability to drive this research potentially through some Academy funding as well. And so, you know, research and science, that's something that I hold very dear. I it's, it's you know, pretty much everything that I kind of geek out about, you know, in particular. And I hear a lot from, especially our early career researchers, but then other researchers as well, especially the ones that are running smaller labs of of how a lot of times, it's hard to know what is kind of useful information from clinicians or what the true path is to get to what we want to know. And then I hear from the clinicians on the other side, you know, I've been practicing over 20 years and there's a lot of things that I don't feel like we've made much progress much real progress over my career and, and it can get kind of frustrating. Speaker 2 (11:35): And, and what I mean by that is if you look at any one, like, like one or two year period, it'll look like things are getting done, but then when you look over a longer period of time, you'll see that a lot of what gets published kind of has a circular nature to it. So they, they're kind of revisiting some of the same questions, not really doing a very thorough job of answering that. And what I mean by that is a lot of times, you know, a group will have, it's like, look, we only have one study that we can do. We're going to try to answer as many questions with this one study as we can. And what ends up happening is it's so diluted that they don't really answer any question really thoroughly for the future. And again, this is looking for where are we going to be 20 years from now with this information? Speaker 2 (12:20): I understand that small steps are frustratingly slow, but that's where we actually make a difference long-term. And so creating a research agenda would basically take clinicians X are some of our researchers. And then ideally also methodologist that they're, they're what we call meta scientists. So people who study this study the science of studying information. And so making sure studies are designed appropriately making sure that replication is being set up, making sure that a study isn't biting off more than it can chew. And so in a research agenda can lay out here are the next five steps that we need to see to go towards what we're trying to get done. And then researchers can look at that. It can be published publicly, and they can look at that and say, Oh, I can actually step in right here. And the thinking here is if you have a large Academy kind of endorsing that these are studies we'd like to see done, that should increase the value again from the publishing side where journals would look at it and say, Oh, well, you know, this is a study that was very well executed. Speaker 2 (13:24): That answers the question specifically that was asked by an Academy. This is going to be cited in future studies. This is something we'd want to publish. So kind of putting those incentives kind of on both ends of it. Speaker 1 (13:36): Got it. So kind of using the Academy as maybe a jumping off point for ideas for future studies, given the input from the members and what they're seeing clinically and what they would like to see, continue on in the research. Speaker 2 (13:49): Yeah, exactly. And so part of that too, is, you know as a clinician, you might say, you know what, I would just love to have an answer to this right here. And it may seem really simple to the clinician of, I don't see why that's a hard thing to answer. And that's where the research community can go, come in and say, all right, well, if you want to answer that, you actually have to start with this very simple question way over here that you're not even thinking about. And so we're going to start there and lay the path so that clinicians can also see where are we on this path to see what do we know and how does this actually develop over time? And I think that that's a huge value both for, for the practitioner and for the researcher, Speaker 1 (14:27): Right? And, and on the research side. So obviously the clinician side. Great. Cause we're getting some of what we're seeing every day put into the research from the researchers side. It's Hey this is what we're seeing. You get an endorsement from the from the Academy and maybe it will maybe it will allow you to have a greater chance of being published. I don't know. That's not that I'm not phrasing that in the best way. You could probably phrase it better. Speaker 2 (15:01): Put it is, I would say that it makes their research more translational. So it's showing that. And, and so, and I think this is something that researchers sometimes struggle with where they're, they're trying to kind of dress up the clinical application side of things to make it more clinically applicable. So it gets that, that, that, that translation, but by doing that, it actually kind of dilutes their, the quality of the study, so to speak because there's certain looking at too many things. And so by getting that opportunity for the research community to say, Hey, it may not look clinically relevant yet, but it's going to be. And so then they're part of that clinical relevance as a package. So instead of one study trying to answer everything, you would have a suite of studies that actually lays your foundation for, for gives you a good foundation for knowledge. Speaker 2 (15:57): And, and I'd like to stress. I mean, there are plenty of, of research labs in our profession that are doing this themselves and doing a phenomenal job of that. And this wouldn't necessarily be for them. It's just, we have a lot of questions to answer. And there's a lot of, of again, some of these smaller labs and early career researchers that are looking to jump in and, and, and even some, you know, research clinicians who are like, Oh, I can, I can do a 10 person study that answers this one little, very finely asked question. If it's laid out for me, I can then take that and run with it, or simply just do a replication of it. Speaker 1 (16:36): And how does this look practically running through the Academy? How does this happen Speaker 2 (16:44): Here would be, you know, somebody would bring it forward an idea, for example, and there would be, you know, we do have a research committee they would start organizing around a couple of research questions and right off the bat. And, you know, I posted this on my blog this idea around a research agenda and I did get some people actually contacted me through my contact form saying, Hey, this sounds really awesome. Are you thinking about, you know, a return to play after ACL? It's like, well, sure. Are you thinking about Achilles repairs? Sure. Again, it's we lay out the agenda and the idea here would be that they would also be living, breathing documents, so to speak that would be revisited every year or every two years. And Hey, where are we? The idea, you know, you lay it all out and then as things get done, you know, you things get checked off the list, so to speak it just gives us a way to have kind of a repository for, for thoroughness that I think is often beyond the scope of a, of a large lab. Speaker 2 (17:42): And this is where, you know, even large labs can step in and say, wow, there's a ton of basic science work that got done by lots of little entities. Now we're going to swoop in and we're going to collect 500 subjects and we're going to now do an effectiveness study based off of all of the solid foundation that was laid out for us. So we didn't have to do year after year of sequential studies. We have a base of studies that we can now just move forward. Speaker 1 (18:11): Got it, got it. So you're looking at this from the Academy standpoint as being a repository of ideas that early career researchers, clinician researchers, smaller labs can go in and say, Hmm, I think I can, I think I can handle this. I'm going to pull this out and I'm going to see what I can do. I'm going to try and create a study. Speaker 2 (18:30): Exactly. And this is also one of, some of our really, you know, big, big names. So to speak. Researchers can look down and go, no, no, no, no, no. That's, that's not how you design that study for something I can use. I would need you to also do this here. And then our research committee and our methodologists might even kick back to them and say, Oh, I understand that what you're actually doing is adding another study in between not necessarily trying to do too much with one study. And so again, this is where it's creating a sounding board that all these people can have these conversations. Speaker 1 (19:01): Got it. Okay. All right. I think I understand it now. Thank you. Sorry for asking so many questions. Speaker 2 (19:07): No, no, of course. And then ultimately, you know, the name of the game is almost always funding. So if, if we can then set up some, some grants, for example, to say, you know, we want to, we have money set aside to pay for this next step. And then, you know, people can pitch the ideas to us. We can do like a register report process where we would review the study before it was even starting to collect data to say, Oh, this looks beautiful. We're going to, we're going to give you money to complete this. Speaker 1 (19:35): Got it. All right. Sounds like a plan. Okay. So what else is on your platform? Speaker 2 (19:42): So another thing I'd like to see is creating more structure to our organization. So something that, you know, as I mentioned, we just had the four, you know, executive committee members, and then we've had other we've had committees over the years, as I've said, I've served on a lot of those. But a lot of times what ends up happening is that everything ends up having to go through the executive committee for final approval for every single step. And, and I understand the need for that. I mean, these are the elected officials, these are the ones making the decisions, but when you get to a Academy, as large as ours, it kind of can start to smack a little bit of micromanagement and making it that if you've ever been in a, in an environment where you're feeling micromanaged, it really feels like your hands are tied, your creativity is stifled and you can't really give to the, to the institution if you're in that situation like that. Speaker 2 (20:33): And so the way that that gets solved is actually to have better defined roles that people are stepping into. So our, we have a new membership engagement director, Jamie little, who's just absolutely phenomenal. And he's been with us for the last year. And one of the things that he likes to point out is you have to create, you have to build the boundaries of your sandbox and then let the person play in the sandbox. But you, you give them a lane to be in so that they feel confident in what they're doing and feel supported in what they're doing, not just giving them like a very vague instruction and then say, then come back to me and show me what you got. And then I'm going to change everything anyway, but really empower them to say, Hey, here's, here's the goal. Speaker 2 (21:23): Here's generally what, you know, what your role is to say, like the chair of the practice committee or the chair of the education committee. And, you know, let's see what you can do. And you know, as long as it's not too far out in left field, we're going to support, support that all the way through. And so since I've been on the executive committee, we've expanded the leadership opportunities for our SIG members. So SIGs used to just have a chair in a, in a vice chair, and now they also have a practice lead and education league, a membership league, and a communication lead, all opportunities for people to step in and take leadership roles and allows us to to let people demonstrate what they can do in the Academy. And I mean, the beauty of it is I, these people, when they step into these roles, I don't know who half of them are. I've never heard of them. And I think that is awesome. That's not me trying to think of somebody to fill this role. That's somebody who stepped up and said, I want to do this role. And of course, some of them are not going to do very well, but a lot of them are really going to demonstrate who they are and what they can do. And it's an opportunity to to let our members really kind of, kind of contribute to the Academy. Speaker 1 (22:35): Yeah. And it also sounds like you're developing a bit of like a leadership development pipeline. Speaker 2 (22:40): That's exactly right. Yeah. And that's where, you know, and that, that gets to the final. One of my points is and embracing the tenants of diversity, equity and inclusion, and make sure that that applies to all of our members and our future members. And that's going to ultimately make our Academy a better overall. And again, this is the thing that, you know, people get, they get hung up on. And again, diversity equity inclusion typically noted as DEI is kind of the popular initialism that's used now. People get hung up on, Oh, well, that's referring to minorities. Oh, that's referring to gender. It's like that also refers to early young professionals, older professionals people who otherwise don't, you know, quote unquote fit into the to the, the, the club, the cliques, so to speak. And we just want to make sure that we're embracing of all the different voices that are within our Academy and make sure that they, they feel they feel represented and they feel seen. Speaker 2 (23:45): And so, you know, you mentioned leadership development. That's definitely one part of it. And a lot of components, a lot of times leadership and, and presentation. So like getting up at a conference and speaking a lot of times they're kind of shoved together as the same thing and not every great presenter is a great leader and not every great leader is a great presenter. So we don't want to fault people for being really strong on one, but not so great on the other. And so we want to create two opportunities for the, the face of our Academy, which is our leadership and our presenters to develop as, as again, as leaders. And then as people who are getting into more of the education side. Speaker 1 (24:29): Right. And like you said, they don't have to be the same person that's right. So you can speak on behalf of the Academy, let's say it's at CSM, or maybe even an international conference, something like that as, as a representative. But it doesn't mean that you're the president of the Academy, nor does it mean because you're on the executive board, you get to speak at these different places. It has to be something that is earned, not just given for the position that you're in. Speaker 2 (24:59): Yeah. And so that's, that's another definition of diversity is playing to your strengths. So not trying to make one person do everything, but try to find the best person for that job regardless of who they are. And it may be that they're really good at one thing, and they're not so great at other things, instead of trying to shoe horn them into things that, that they're not gonna Excel at, let them really shine where they, where they can shine. And, and again, you know, we're an Academy between seven and 8,000 members. We don't need to have one person doing everything. It's really an opportunity that lots of people can step up and fill different roles. And, and I think that's just, it's just great for all of us. Speaker 1 (25:37): Absolutely. And it also makes people feel like they're wanted. Yes. Yeah. And that's important because there's nothing worse than not feeling wanted. Speaker 2 (25:47): The other thing too is, you know, I'm a, I'm a big data guy, big analytics guy. And so one of the things that we used DEI in particular for, and this was a little over a year ago when we put together a task force to look at it. And that, that was the mission of the task force was to see what do our demographics, how do our demographics break down along gender and along race race identity. And the simple thing is you can just look at those numbers of the membership and then how do our leaders break down by gender and by racial identity. And then how do our presenters break down in the same way? And so in some respects, we had very, very good matches you know, specifically CSM presenters were pretty well representative specifically in gender, not quite so much when it came to race. Speaker 2 (26:50): So we're able to say gender is pretty well addressed from the CSM side. Now that doesn't mean there's, there's not future issues or not some issues still to be solved, but it looked much better for example. But then when we looked at leadership and we looked at some of our other, other events, we had some bigger issues around that specifically. And so, you know, a lot of people will say, Oh, so, you know, are you saying that you know, some of your leaders are racist or massage? Monistic, it's like, no, that's not how this works. What it means is that there's something at play here that is restricting equity and inclusion because of all things being equal, it should balance itself out in that way. And, and, and again, looking at the way CSM programming was selected it was intentionally set up to try to increase the number of submissions in and then trying to go strictly based off of the merit of the submissions and the quality of the speakers and not trying to read into it anymore. Speaker 2 (27:52): And it kind of organically started to sort itself out. And so this is where, you know, when we look from leadership, well, if you have an Academy of 7,000 plus people, and you only have five elected positions, a couple of nominating committee, a couple SIG chairs, there's just not a lot of opportunity for people to step up and have a path to leadership. And so that's why we expanded the leadership opportunities within our SIGs. Again, a little more low risks low stakes opportunities for people to step in demonstrate their, their abilities. And then if they want to pursue further, they have an opportunity. And that's the other thing to remember is not everybody wants to keep progressing and keep pursuing. And somebody stepping back and saying, I don't want to do that, is that should not be slighted. And that should not be seen as a negative either. Speaker 1 (28:40): You, I was just going to say that, darn it. I was just going to say, then that person can make the decision if they want to continue further, is this for them? Is it not? But it at least gives people the opportunity to make that decision for themselves. Speaker 2 (28:57): Yeah. And not only that, when, when talking from a leadership perspective, what leaders have to understand is that somebody turning something down today does not mean that you shouldn't offer it to them tomorrow. And so you may offer somebody an opportunity. They'll say, you know what? I just don't have time for that right now, I'm going to have to pass. And, you know, a lot of times people are advised, you know, never say no, because you never know what it's going to lead to. It's like, okay, well then it's, you're just encouraging people to take on way more than they should be doing. And then you end up with a handful of people doing everything. And so a good, a good developing leader is someone who recognizes, you know, I'm not in a good spot right now to take that on, to do it justice. Speaker 2 (29:37): So I'm going to pass for now. But then when another opportunity comes around, you know, bring it back to them and, and keep, keep asking. That's cause a lot of times, you know, especially when we talk you know, women in the workforce in particular, a lot of times they may be, you know, stepping back a little bit with you know, child-rearing and things like that. Which, which honestly, I don't understand why men wouldn't be doing the same thing, but this is where they may not want to be engaged in that way for a year or two, but then they need the opportunity to step back into it. It's not a matter of, Oh, well they just say no to stuff. So we don't ask them anymore. That's not really fair to people. Speaker 1 (30:17): No. And that's, I think it's so important is to remember that you have to ask because a lot of people feel like maybe they're not smart enough. They don't know enough people, but boy, they really want to try and get involved, but no one really asked them. Yep. So if you don't ask someone, you may be missing out on some great opportunities that that person can bring to the table. Great ideas. So I'm a huge fan of just asking and then if they say no, then you circle back and you ask again, and if they say, no, you keep circling back and circling back. That's what I did as part of the nominating committee for the private practice section. It was just a lot of circling back, a lot of conversations and sometimes long conversations, you know, because it's not like if someone says, Oh, no, I don't want to. I'm always like, okay, tell me why. Tell me, you know, tell me more, tell me what the barriers are now and what might that look like in a year or two, just so that we have, you know, a good also repository of people who we know want to serve this Academy or the section or component or whatever you want to call them. Speaker 2 (31:34): Yeah. And that's where and I like how you, how you put that at the asking the question of, okay, well, you know, can you explain why not now, again, assuming it's not a personal issue. And they may say, you know, I'm, I'm just not really good with this one part of that job. And it might be, Oh, we can get somebody else to do that. You know, that that's not a problem. As a matter of fact, there's another opportunity for another person to step up into a role. And so, you know, hearing them out from that perspective. I remember when I took over as programming chair for CSM, we greatly expanded, you know, we went from, I think it was eight or nine sessions that we offered at CSM. And then I took over and it was like 36. So it was like full, you know, big explosion. Speaker 2 (32:19): And it was more, a matter of APA had always offered us that, those number of slots and we just turned them down. We just wanted to do one every, every block and not program against ourselves. And I was like, Hey, if they're going to get us a spot, I'm going to throw people up there. And it was difficult the first year because we didn't have enough submissions to support that, but I wanted to set the precedent. No, no, no, we are going to do this. And so I then had to get on the phone and walk around at conferences and say, Hey, can you submit something on this, this or that? Or why aren't you submitting something on this, this and that. And the most common answer I got back was, Oh, I didn't, I didn't know that, that anybody wanted me to submit something like that. I didn't know that you guys were interested in that. It's like, no, yes, we are definitely interested in that and pleased and trying to lay things out. And then of course stressing that. There's a difference between me asking and me accepting, you know, a lot of times it's just, Hey, give me some missions so that we have something to work with here. And we don't have to accept, you know, necessarily the same speakers over and over, but because of that opportunity to do that. Speaker 1 (33:24): Yeah. Amazing. And now, Eric, what would you say when looking at this platform? So we have five-year strategic plan, creating research agendas, expanding organizational structure, creating an executive board and embracing the, and progressing the tenants of DEI. What is sort of the over arching vision in your mind for the Academy? Speaker 2 (33:49): So what I'm trying to do is really set things up for and the term that I've been using since I came on as, as representative at large, as well as my big thing is, is architecture. So I'm trying to set up kind of a scaffolding for our members to inhabit and to, and that is set up in such a way that the Academy can move forward into the future with the ability to be adaptable as things are changing, but also to be strong at the same time. And, and that's something that I think having things laid out, you know, I mentioned five-year strategic plan. That's where I would start. And then I would love to see, you know, a 10 what's the 10 year strategic plan. What's the 20 year strategic plan. I mean, that was something that, you know, we just passed a 2020 which, which turned out to be a different year than I think we were anticipating. Speaker 2 (34:38): But back in 2000, that was vision 2020. That was the APA made a strategic plan of where we want to be in 20 years. And I think people forget how important strategic planning is. You know, there's a lot of decisions that happen in the course of a year within any organization. And a lot of times there could be three or four perfectly acceptable, you know, courses that could be taken you know, decision courses that can be taken on one of those, you know, big decisions that need to be made, but one of them may support the strategic plan down the road better so that when you're making that next decision, it's going to build off of the previous one, as opposed to just solving the problem that's in front of you. And so making sure again, kind of like that research agenda, making sure that what you're doing today is something that can be built upon tomorrow. Speaker 2 (35:33): We're never finished. It's never the end. It's never, we've just solved it. It's how does this set us up for the next thing that we're going to be doing, you know, down the line and, and intentionally laying that out. And, and so some people will ask, well, w w so, so how locked in is this five-year plan? It's like, no, it's, it can be amended as we go. I mean, that's, that's kind of the whole point of it. It's just that we have some sort of a vision going forward with that. And so again, it's more trying to set things up, not for me, not even for the, our, our younger members, but for the members that haven't even joined yet that they have a path through their career, through our Academy, that our Academy supports them every step of that way. And they feel like they're involved as they go through. Speaker 1 (36:22): Yeah. And if 2020 taught us anything, it's that amendments are probably needed on any five-year plan. So if it's locked in, it's locked in and it can't be changed, then we're all in a lot of trouble. Speaker 2 (36:33): Exactly. Right. Yeah. Everything has to be flexible. Speaker 1 (36:36): Yeah. Everything needs some fluidity to it these days. That's for sure. Well, Eric what, what are the things that you want the listeners to take away from this and to think about the possibilities of you being president of the Academy? Speaker 2 (36:53): Well, what I would say is you know, I was elected as a representative at large a couple of years ago because I'm, I'm a regular old member. I don't have a PhD. I'm not a, you know, I have not taught in a S you know, as a school or anything like that. Not academic, not a researcher. I owned a private practice for almost 20 years. Just sold it. I work with patients day in and day out. I'm not, again, I'm not conducting research, I'm not doing these things. I do continuing education. I talk to a lot of physical therapists. I do a lot of mentoring across across the country and across the world with other sports physical therapists. I know this world inside and out, and what I'm trying to do is bring forward an entity that supports that. Speaker 2 (37:50): Ultimately, it's not that it supports the researchers. It does support the researchers, but that's not the mission. It's not supporting the clinicians either. It does support the clinicians, but that's not the mission it's to support our patients, to make sure that they get the best service possible by supporting our researchers and our clinicians and doing it in such a way that it's integrated in such a way that makes our members feel like they are getting a back and forth conversation with the Academy, which is made up of all the other members. So it's everybody talking across each other. Everybody communicate communicating everybody working together towards some common goals, trying to make their careers, what they want it to be setting it up so they can hand it off to the next generation to make it what they want to be as well. Speaker 1 (38:40): Excellent. Sounds wonderful. And now it does, it sounds great. Now, Eric, where can people find you if they have questions or comments or they just want to say hello? Speaker 2 (38:52): So probably the easiest way is well, the, the, the most comprehensive one is just going to the website that I run, which is called the science, pt.com, all one word, the science PT, make sure you put the at the beginning. And that's got links to my Twitter account. My, I have an Instagram account although I'm terrible at it. If you want to see an old man hitting something with a rock, that's pretty much what I do on Instagram. But definitely available for the most part on, on Twitter. But there is also a contact form on my website that if you have any questions, you can click on that, right on the homepage. There's a, a button that's, that's a link to my campaign page. And so you can go there and, and everything that we've talked about, I have a blog post and individual blog posts for each point that I highlighted going into more detail. Speaker 2 (39:41): And also as I, you know pointed out in this conversation, there are things I don't have answers for. I'm just talking about where I'm thinking of pointing things and then getting information and seeing is this something we can work towards, and maybe it's something we need to revise or change and do differently. But these are just my thinking from what I've seen from all my years of service, things that I think are very doable, very possible within our current means within our current support, within our current structure to really set us up, to grow into the future. And so just that website probably is, is the the most comprehensive spot. Speaker 1 (40:18): Perfect. And then before we go, last question, which I didn't tell you about, I probably should have done that. I think you'll be fine. I think you can handle it. So knowing where you are now in your life and your career, what advice would you give yourself as the new grad as that, you know, young, young, professional, Speaker 2 (40:37): You know being flexible, being adaptable is, is always the biggest thing be patient for probably the best lesson that I've learned is that nobody can be you better than you. And remember that. And that's, that goes two ways. Remember that the person you're talking to is also not you, they don't have a brain that works like you and thinks like you and sees things like you, and they're trying to be the best person that they are as well. And so the more that we can support each other to both be better at all times, I think is huge. And I think that's something that you can carry in with your patients when you're working with them of being compassionate, to understand that, you know, it might be easy for you to get up every morning and do a 30 minute run, but that might be like torture to the person you're talking to. And it's not their fault. They're not lazy, they're not wired wrong or whatever. It's just the way they, and we have to be supportive of, of that. But then that's also with our colleagues when we're trying to have conversations around things as well, to, to understand that you know, we all have different perspectives and, and that's okay. Speaker 1 (41:47): Absolutely. And what wonderful advice. So Eric, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your platform. I'm sure myself and the listeners really appreciate it. So thank you Speaker 2 (41:58): So much for having me. I really appreciate it. You're doing a great job with all of this. Speaker 1 (42:02): Aw, well, thank you. That's very kind and everyone, thank you so much for listening for tuning in, have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy and smart.  

Dark Skies (April 1, 2021) #MelodicHouse #VocalHouse #DJset #ClubKerryNYC Free: https://bit.ly/ClubKerry "Awesomesauce" featured Tunr app. Chartable "Global Reach" top 20 music podcast. "Stylistically superior. The best vocal house podcast on the net." (iTunes Review). "Top Electronic Podcast" (Player FM). Celebrating 12 years 2009-2021. "New app discovery and I love it! Absolutely in love with all the mixes. Club Kerry provides me with all the good feels and beats needed to overcome some mundane moments in my life recently. App functionality is on point as well! It's so easy to use and I'm not bogged down with so many in-app adds. Would def recommend to anyone seeking a bit of sass and dance in their life. Thank you Kerry for the sweet tunes." - RoseFaceKillah, Club Kerry NYC app review, 3/15/21 Listen on my free app: Club Kerry NYC iOS App: http://bit.ly/kerryiosapp Club Kerry NYC Android App: http://bit.ly/AndroidKerry Club Kerry NYC Windows App: http://bit.ly/KerryWindows Premium Subscribe for extra episodes! Dark Skies Track List (57:42): 1. Not In Love (Extended Mix) - Franky Wah ft. LOWES ***DJ FAVORITE!*** 2. Saturday Night (Extended Mix) - The Pressure 3. Wherever You Are (Tinlicker Remix) - Nils Hoffmann, Margret 4. The Prey (Mind Against Remix) - Monolink 5. Abu Simbel (Extended) - Who Made Who 6. Walking On A Dream (KASST Remix) - Empire Of The Sun. (KASST is on fire and right on time the past year or so IMHO. - Kerry) 7. Sky Is Crying - ZHU & Yuna 8. In This Dark Time (Two Are Remix) - Aime Simone ***DJ FAVORITE!*** 9. Light Beam - Tinlicker 10. Darkside (Extended Mix) - Madison Mars, Feldz 11. Together (Extended Mix) - Sidepiece 12. Beau Chien - Niv Ast & Adrien Albou. Listener request by Toddy from Sherman Oaks, California. "Meow!" 13. White Heat (Luin's Usual Suspects Remix) - Madonna vs. First Ladies of Disco - Show Some Love (Razor & Guido Mix) *Retro Alert!*** 14. How Does It Feel (Paul Woolford Extended Remix) - London Grammar Listen on your fave app for your device: iTunes/iOS http://bit.ly/iTunesKerry Gaana (Android, iOS) http://bit.ly/GaanaClubKerry Google Podcasts (Android, iOS) https://bit.ly/GoogleClubKerry Amazon Music Podcasts (Android, iOS) https://bit.ly/AmazonMusicClubKerryNYC Deezer https://bit.ly/DeezerClubKerry Tunr (Visualize your music! iOS) by Soundspectrum Podcast Republic (Android) https://bit.ly/PodcastRepublicClubKerry CastBox (Android, Alexa, iOS) https://bit.ly/CastBoxClubKerryNYC Podcast Addict (Android) https://bit.ly/PodcastAddictClubKerry Stitcher (iOS, Android) http://bit.ly/stitcherkerry iHeartRadio (iOS, Android) https://bit.ly/iHeartRadioClubKerry Overcast (iOS) https://bit.ly/OvercastClubKerry TuneIn (Alexa, Roku, Google Assistant, Cortana, iOS, Android) http://bit.ly/TuneInClubKerry PocketCasts (iOS/GooglePlay) https://bit.ly/PocketCastsClubKerry PlayerFM (iOS, Android/Google Play) http://bit.ly/PlayerFMkerry Podbean: https://bit.ly/PodbeanClubKerry Mixcloud: http://bit.ly/MixcloudClubKerry RSSFeed: http://clubkerrynyc.libsyn.com/rss Track Lists & Download http://clubkerrynyc.libsyn.com

The Cubs dropped Game 1 of the 2021 season, losing 5-3 to the Pirates while only managing two hits compared to Pittsburgh's nine. Should Cubs fans be worried? Of course not. Are there things they should keep an eye on? Absolutely!David Kaplan, Maddie Lee, Gordon Wittenmyer, and Tim Stebbins do a postgame breakdown of the loss and discuss what Cubs fans should keep an eye on as the season gets going.(1:30) - Cubs have an embarrassing outing in Game 1(4:25) - Did the cold weather impact the way the Cubs played?(8:25) - Bright spots in the loss to the Pirates(13:10) - Francisco Lindor got PAID! What does it mean for Javy Báez?

From our physical appearance to our body's mechanical functions, our whole being is encoded into our genes and kept in each cell that makes us. These basic biological units have their system to keep everything functioning and our body alive and moving. They have housekeeping functions: cells perform autophagy to get rid of accumulated waste materials. Maximising the effects of these processes can help in increasing your longevity. When the autophagic processes fail, it can damage important parts of the cell such as the DNA and accelerate ageing. In this episode, Dr Elena Seranova explains the science behind autophagy and how it connects to NAD and sirtuin genes. She also shares her own experience and research on using this knowledge to live a longer, fuller life. Join us in this episode to learn more about autophagy and how this process is useful in increasing your longevity and giving you a boost in life.   Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program that is all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/. You can also join our free live webinar on epigenetics.   Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.   Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.    Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research, and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/  For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.    Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: Discover how cells stay healthy. Find out Dr Elena's tips and advice in increasing your longevity by activating autophagy. Learn more about the science behind NMN supplements and their revitalising effect.   Resources Read about Dave Asprey’s work around the keto diet. Lifespan by Dr David Sinclair Pushing the Limits Ep 170: The Search for the Perfect Protein with Dr David Minkoff Visit NMNBio if you want to learn more about NMN supplements in New Zealand.   Episode Highlights [04:33] Getting to Know Dr Elena Seranova Dr Elena Seranova is an interdisciplinary scientist.  She holds a degree in Psychology, MSc Translational Neuroscience, and a PhD focusing on autophagy and cell biology. With her expertise in her field, she co-founded a biotech startup and is now the the founder of NMN Bio in the United Kingdom.  [06:06] What Is Autophagy? Autophagy is a catabolic pathway that degrades unwanted materials within the cell. The cell needs to avoid the build-up of unnecessary materials. There are different pathways for activation like mTOR (mammalian target of rapamycin) and PI3K (Phosphoinositide 3-kinase). Impairments at various stages of autophagy lead to its failure and cell death. Once autophagy fails, apoptosis, or programmed cell death, can activate. [11:25] NAD as Fuel for Sirtuin and PARP PARP and sirtuin are different classes of enzymes that use NAD for multiple vital processes, including DNA repair (both) and gene expression (sirtuin). Sirtuin 1 is one of the pathways that can initiate autophagy. initiates the autophagic process. When DNA is damaged, PARP activates and depletes NAD stores. The decrease in NAD levels inhibits sirtuin's ability to carry out its functions, including autophagy, accelerating a cell's death. [15:34] What Is NAD? Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide or NAD is a substrate for enzymes. It plays a vital role in different reactions within the cell. You can supplement NAD levels using boosters such as nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN). [18:44] mTOR-Independent Pathways Activation of autophagy using Sirtuin 1 is an mTOR-independent pathway. It is essential not to activate autophagy through mTOR pathways. mTOR is responsible for cell growth and translation. [25:04] How to Activate mTOR-Independent Autophagy Autophagy is dependent on nutrient starvation. Intermittent fasting can activate it. A generally healthy lifestyle includes supplement intake, proper sleep, and healthy foods. Avoid too much sunlight because it damages the skin and DNA. It activates PARP enzymes. Take a tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil which contains oleic acid. This good fat has the same effects as resveratrol. Induce artificial stress through cryotherapy, saunas, and exercise to activate sirtuin 1.  [33:22] Why Did Dr Elena Decide to Bring NMN to the Market? She came across NAD and NMN during her doctorate studies and saw their importance. Her own experiences showed better focus and energy levels after taking NMN supplements. There are not enough reliable suppliers that offer good regulation and quality control. She wanted to provide the best for herself and her family. NMN Bio has complete transparency on suppliers and quality regulation [38:28] Can Weight Loss Occur from Taking NMN? Lisa Tamati's experience in taking NMN shows fat loss but no muscle loss. Dr Elena's mice studies show evidence that NMN can improve insulin sensitivity and lipid metabolism. [40:42] Do NMN Supplements Have Any Downsides? They found no side effects in studies with mice despite an increase in dosage. Current studies are still ongoing to determine the ideal dosage for humans. Most people take 500mg to 1g. Doubling this still shows good tolerance. Take supplements in the morning as NAD affects the circadian rhythm. [53:57] How Do Autophagy, NAD and Sirtuin Genes Fit Together? Autophagy recycles various damaged organelles. Sirtuin 1 genes activate autophagy and mitophagy. NAD functions as a substrate for sirtuin enzymes to work. NMN supplements can increase NAD levels. Listen to the episode for the full explanation of how these three work together. [58:43] Can NMN be Taken as an Infusion? This is not something that Dr Elena has studied in-depth and she is curious as well about how viable this procedure will be.  There is a low concentration of energy in intravenous injections, but it's present. Oral administration is more reliable in giving boosts and it costs cheaper. [01:00:01] Do Antioxidants Help in Increasing Your Longevity? Studies have shown that antioxidants don't suppress ageing. Lifestyle intervention and autophagy activation are proven ways to slow ageing.   7 Powerful Quotes  ‘Lysosome is another acidic organelle that contains acid hydrolases that are able to digest this cargo...and if it doesn't work, well, the cell is basically in trouble because you have all this garbage floating around, and there is nothing to remove them. So this is why autophagy is important. ‘When things are preserved across species, then that gives a scientist an indication that this is probably a very important biological function’. ‘I think that in order for your body to function properly, you really need to have a kind of a healthy routine in general’. ‘So I think that when it comes to being healthy, and activating your autophagy levels, and having a healthy lifestyle in general, you need to start with the basics first.’ ‘Another small tip that I can give is to actually avoid sunlight, which is something that people don't really consider. What happens when we're exposed to sunlight, when our skin is exposed to sunlight for prolonged periods of time, we start getting the DNA damage’. “The important part is not to just increase your age, it’s to increase your healthspan.”  ‘And if you have if your mitochondria are not healthy, and they're dying, and you're not having enough mitochondria in your cells, then you are going to be sick.’   About Dr Elena Seranova Dr Elena Seranova is a scientist, serial entrepreneur and business mentor who has founded multiple innovative biotechnological businesses. She first studied at the University of Ioannina with a major in Psychology. She started a private practice before developing an interest in neuroscience. She continued her studies and earned her Master’s Degree in Translational Neuroscience at the University of Sheffield. She now also holds a Doctorate Degree in Stem Cell Biology and Autophagy from the University of Birmingham. Her expertise in these fields has led her to become the co-founder of a biotech start-up, SkyLab Bio. She has written a number of peer-reviewed articles and multiple research articles on autophagy throughout her career. Aside from these accomplishments, she started her own business, NMN Bio. Her own experiences with the use of supplements have inspired her to expand the market to supply the public with cutting-edge anti-ageing supplements. NMN Bio reaches New Zealand, UK, and Europe.  Dr Elena found her passion for drug discovery and autophagy. She has endeavoured to share this with the public through her research and work as an entrepreneur.  To learn more about Dr Elena and her work, visit her website.    Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends! Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends, especially those interested in increasing their longevity, so that they can practice the activation of autophagy in their lifestyle. Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts. To pushing the limits, Lisa   Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com. Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This week I have Dr. Elena Seranova, who has already been a guest on the show. And today, we're talking about autophagy and NAD, and the interplay between these two. Now that might sound extremely boring, but it isn't. It's all about longevity and anti-aging. So, we're going to be talking about the science between about NAD precursors and the sirtuin genes, and how to upregulate the sirtuin genes, and all about autophagy, which is really the recycling of old and damaged parts and proteins of a cell that need to be gotten rid of. So, it's a bit like having a good garbage disposal unit happening. And there are many ways to activate autophagy, which we go into in this episode. We talk about intermittent fasting, we talk about cold and hot and hormetic stressors like exercise and yes, of course fasting. But also, mTOR independent pathways to activate autophagy, it'll all be revealed in this interview.  Now this does get a little bit technical in the first 20 minutes or so. But hang in there and listen to this a couple of times. Because if you want to slow down aging, if you want to slow down the generative decline of your body and you want to have a long and healthy lifestyle, then this stuff is really, really worth paying attention to and trying to understand.  We talk about NMN, which is nicotinamide mononucleotide, which is a supplement that is now available, is a longevity compound to upregulate the sirtuin genes. And we're really lucky to check that out. You can go and find that supplement, which has been made and produced by Dr. Elena Seranova and her company, NMN Bio. So if you head hop over to nmnbio.nz, we're now importing this into the country. So, this is one way that you can really fight aging and degenerative decline that we all fear and don't want.  And when you listen to this episode and really listen to it a couple of times, you'll understand some of the incredible anti-aging things that are coming down. This is not pseudoscience. Dr. Elena is one of the most amazing neuroscientists out there. So please listen to this episode, enjoy it, get a lot out of it and get the takeaway. So, if you don't understand some of the terminology, don't worry, keep going. And by the end, you'll start to pick up certain bits and pieces. And if you listen to it again, you'll be able to pick up a little bit more and a little bit more. And at the end of the day, it's about the takeaways, what can you do to slow aging down and all that information is in there. So, I hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Elena.  Before we go over to that we are all about health optimisation, high performance, athletic performance. So, if you need any help with any of those areas of your life, please reach out to us, Support at lisatamati.com. Go and check out our website, lisatamati.com. You'll find all our programs, our Epigenetics Programs, our online run training system that's customised and personalised totally to you, and check out what we do. We love helping you be the best version of yourself that you can be. Now over to the show with Dr. Elena Servanova.  Lisa: Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here and very excited to have you hopefully join us this morning. It's 7:30am in the morning here in New Zealand. And where Dr. Elena Seranova is, it's very late at night. How are you doing, Dr. Elena?   Dr Elena Seranova: Good, good. How are you? Happy to be here again. Lisa: Yeah, very excited for today's topic. So, we're going to be doing a discussion around autophagy and NAD boosters and sirtuin genes. So it’s going to be a really interesting discussion that is really beneficial for you if you want to know how to live longer, live healthier, and optimise your body and your mind and your potential. So, Dr. Elena, can you just tell us briefly a little bit about yourself?  Dr Elena: Sure. So, I started my journey as a psychologist. So I'm an interdisciplinary scientist. I majored in psychology at first and then I had my own private practise for five years which turned out to be a successful wellness centre. And I really got fascinated by neuroscience and the brain. And for this reason, at first I started studying the brain myself and then I found an amazing master's degree at the University of Sheffield in Translational Neuroscience, which basically combined the research and neurodegeneration with applications that could translate into therapeutics. So, this is what translational neuroscience means, is basically the combination and the outcome of the research—the hardcore biology research that can be utilised for therapeutic approaches and patients.  I really enjoyed that. So that was quite cool, being in the lab and doing molecular biology experiments and so on. So, I kind of fell in love with the lab, and I decided to do a PhD as well. I continued my studies in autophagy and stem cell biology and it was quite challenging, but at the same time, I really enjoyed it. And I can definitely say that science is a big part of my life. Lisa: Definitely your thing. Okay, so autophagy and stem cells. So in relation to neurodegenerative diseases in that case? Okay, but what is autophagy? Because a lot of people will be listening to it and go, ‘What the heck is that big word, autophagy’? It's sort of big word in biohacking circles, but perhaps not in the general public. Can you explain what autophagy is exactly?  Dr Elena: Yes, sure. So, autophagy is a catabolic pathway that degrades dysfunctional organelles in the cell or protein pro aggregates. So, any material that is basically unwanted in the cell, autophagy can degrade. It's like the stomach of the cell.  Lisa: So, it’s like eating it? It's eating, sort of...  Dr Elena: Yeah, exactly. And what happens when autophagy is activated, we actually have the formation of the so-called phagophore, which is a membrane structure that basically engulfs different organelles and materials that need to be degraded to form the so called autophagosome, which is a round organelle that basically has this cargo that needs to be digested. That eventually fuses with lysosome.  And lysosome is another acidic organelle that contains acidic hydrolases that are able to digest this cargo. And this process is very essential for the cell, it’s very vital. It's evolutionary conserved in all species, from yeast to models. And if it doesn't work well, the cell is basically in trouble because you have all this garbage... Lisa: Floating around.  Dr Elena: ...floating around and there is nothing to remove them. So, this is why autophagy is important. And we have different pathways that autophagy can be activated through as well. So, one of those pathways is mTOR, mechanistic target of rapamycin. And then we have other pathways that can activate this process such as AMPK, GSK3, and so on.  Lisa: So is this like, sorry to interrupt, but like because I know that people out there might be like, ‘Wow, that's a lot of big words and a lot of information’. So, is it like that the cell has to do a housecleaning, and it's got stuff inside the cell that is not working optimally, and needs to be gotten rid of, or is it the whole cell? So, it's not apoptosis. So it's not where the host is disintegrating? Dr Elena: No. Yeah, it's actually a—it's a pre-apoptotic pathway. So, before apoptosis is activated, we have autophagy. And if autophagy fails in what it needs to do, then we have activation of some apoptotic pathways. So, it's one step before that. And if everything goes well, and autophagy is functional—and by the way, in different diseases, we might be having different autophagy impairments at different stages of autophagy. So, it's either the initial phagophore formation, for instance, that it's not working well, and it can’t engulf the cargo, or it's insulator stages of autophagy, such as the acidic hydrolysis and the lysosomes that are actually not that acidic. So their pH is not acidic enough to digest the cargo. So, we might be having different defects in the autophagy pathway in different diseases. Lisa: That leads to apoptosis. Am I right?  Dr Elena: And yeah, if autophagy is not doing its work correctly, then eventually we will have apoptosis. And actually, this is what we're seeing in in vitro models of neurodegenerative diseases as well. So, for instance, if autophagy is not working well.  And we have, let's say, dysfunctional organelles, such as mitochondria—dysfunctional mitochondria that are not working well. Let's say they are depolarised. And there is an excess production of reactive oxygen species going on. Now, if nothing can degrade these dysfunctional mitochondria, you'll keep on having this accumulation of reactive oxygen species, which eventually will lead to DNA damage and deactivation of PARPs. And it's basically a death spiral that will keep on leading the cell towards death.  Lisa: Okay, so what is a PARP? You mentioned PARP there. And just for the listeners, too. So, apoptosis is basically cell death, programmed cell death. So, this is not—what's the other one necrotic or something?  Dr Elena: Necrosis?  Lisa: Yeah, necrosis, where the cell dies for—necrosis. But this is sort of a natural programmed cell death. But we only want that if we're actually renewing the cells and we are wanting new stuff. So, before that, the body tries to do this autophagy process, is that how it works? And then what so what is PARP? What is PARP, because that’s the word again... Dr Elena: PARPs are a class of enzymes, and in order for them to function, they need a molecule called NAD, so nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. And they're actually competing for NAD in the cell. And whenever we have increased DNA damage, we would have the PARP activation as well. And this would lead to NAD depletion, which kind of brings me to my next point about what other enzymes consume NAD. And one of those enzymes are sirtuins, which are the so-called longevity genes that are basically responsible for multiple processes in the cell, including epigenetic regulation of gene expression.  So, they do—because sirtuins are a class of enzymes that are also dependent on NAD, and they're all the deacetylase enzymes, meaning that they remove acetyl groups from the DNA. And as a result, they control which genes will be expressed in which tissues, which is very crucial for the cellular identity and for the proper function of different cells.  So, sirtuins in a healthy cell, so sirtuin should be upregulated and they should be having this housekeeping gene—housekeeping function where they basically control what's going on with the DNA repair and also with the gene expression as well. And if we do have—when we do start having impaired autophagy, and let's say there is increased reactive oxygen species, because there are increased dysfunctional mitochondria in the cell, you will have in more activation of PARPs, and all of the NAD will start being drained from... And sirtuin will not have enough energy to function. So, those are actually quite an elegant interplay between autophagy and NAD and sirtuins.  Lisa: Okay. Okay, can I just want to like put that back to you, so that we can slow down because we are going technical quite fast. And I think a lot of people might be like, ‘What the heck are they talking about’? So, the sirtuin genes, basically longevity genes, and then one of the jobs is DNA repair. And another of the jobs is to say which genes are actually being activated right now. And these sirtuin genes are also responsible, I think, for cell replication, is that correct? Dr Elena: The sirtuins are responsible for multiple functions, directly or indirectly. So, for instance, the sirtuin 3 gene is also responsible for mitochondrial biogenesis. And it's implicated in the amount of mitochondria that are being produced by the cell, which is related to cell replication eventually, because you do need to have enough ATP levels to replicate. Lisa: Right. Yeah. So, this has definitely to do with ATP production as well and mitochondrial health. So, these are doing all of these jobs, the sirtuin genes, they're very, very crucial genes in our genome. And these are preserved across every species, I believe? Every species on the planet?  Dr Elena: Yeah. Also from yeast to humans, it's also—sirtuin genes are preserved very well. Lisa: And when things are preserved across species, then that gives a scientist an indication that this is probably a very important biological function and we need to have a look at this one because it's—from what I understand.  Okay, so when you have activated PARP because you're not doing autophagy well and there's things going wrong, it's taking the NAD. So NAD is basically like a fuel source that both the sirtuin genes. And when PARP is activated, it's using to fuel its job. And so, this is competition for competing fuel sources. So, like if you imagine, you've only got one tank of fuel for your car, but you've got to go in two different directions and do two different jobs. You go, ‘How am I going to divide up my energy’? So, then it becomes important as to how much NAD we have in the body? So, what is NAD again? That says nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide? But what is that and how does it work?  Dr Elena: Yeah, it does serve as a substrate for all of these enzymes, including sirtuins and PARPS and is basically a master regulator of metabolism. So, it's a very important molecule and it serves as—without NAD, the cell is not able to function properly just because this crucial molecule is implicated in so many different reactions. So, NAD is found in all living cells and organisms. This is also evolutionary conserved across species. And it exists in two forms, NADH and NAD+, which is the reduced and the oxidised form, respectively. And both of them are important. And both of them are implicated in multiple cellular reactions.  Lisa: Is it going backwards and forwards in a cycle, NADH, NAD+, by donating electrons back and forth, sort of thing?  Dr Elena: Yeah. Through electron transport chain in the mitochondria, yeah. So, this is why it's so important. And so, what we're seeing now in the latest advancements in longevity research is that we actually can supplement with different precursors of NAD, such as nicotinamide mononucleotide, for instance, NMN. And this is the supplement that my company...  Lisa: See, you've now got that available on the market because this is such a crucial thing. Dr Elena: Exactly. And I think that it's really interesting to also say that when it comes to the interaction between autophagy and sirtuins, there is also another regulation of autophagy there. So sirtuin 1 is actually responsible for activating some transcription factors such as TFEB and FoxO3 that have to do with initiation of the autophagy process.  So, for this reason, when we do have dropping levels of NAD, decreasing levels of NAD, and there is not enough NAD for sirtuins to do their job. And let's say again—let's talk about that previous example in neurodegeneration when you have increased reactive oxygen species, and you have increased the level of stress and oxidative stress and decreased activity of sirtuins.  And not only the situation is already bad, but because sirtuin 1 doesn't have enough energy to function and to activate the TFEB and the FoxO3 transcription factors to initiate autophagy, now you have all of this dysfunctional mitochondria floating around and autophagy starts being impaired as well because we activated enough. So, it's a negative feedback loop which actually accelerates the scenario where the cell is going towards cell death, basically. Lisa: So that means like, if you don't have enough NAD, then your sirtuin 1 gene is not going to be able to initiate autophagy and clean up the cell and you're going to have dysfunctional mitochondria. Is that independent of the mTOR pathway? Or is that—am I getting confused?  Dr Elena: So, okay. So, good question. So, what happens is there are some molecules that activates sirtuins. So, for instance, sirtuin 1 is activated by resveratrol, and this is something that has been demonstrated many years ago. So, when you have sirtuin 1 dependent activation of autophagy, you will be having it through an mTOR independent pathway. Lisa: So it's a fasting mimetic resveratrol.  Dr Elena: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, because we now know that the mTOR activity is not affected by intake of resveratrol. And this is quite crucial because actually, even if we want to activate autophagy, we shouldn’t do it through the mTOR pathway, this is not the preferred way, because mTOR is also responsible for growth and translation in the cell. So, this is not—it's also quite a key player in the cell. So it's a serine threonine kinase, and you actually don't want it to be activated at all times because this may lead other conditions. So, what we're focusing on at the moment is to find molecules that can activate autophagy in an mTOR independent manner. Lisa: Okay, so. So if the mTOR—cause MTOR is usually what's for growth it’s anabolic, it's causing growth. So for example, a bodybuilder goes to the gym, they're in an anabolic state, they are in an mTOR growth state. And when you have autophagy, that's sort of the opposite. So, it's a catabolic state where it's starting to eat itself. So, it’s mTOR, most people like do fasting for that reason to activate autophagy? Dr Elena: Yeah, this is another good point there. So, when we're fasting, and there is actually conflicting evidence out there as to when autophagy is fully activated. Usually, people say that around 24 hours, you start having the autophagy activation. There are others that swear by the ketogenic diet, and say that if you don't consume any carbs, you will get autophagy activation anyway. However, from what other researchers have found is that, if you are in a ketogenic diet, and you do consume meat, it depends on what kind of meat you consume that will either activate autophagy or not. And it all has to do with levels of different amino acids in the cell because autophagy is quite sensitive to nutrients and to nutrient starvation to be activated. If you have an abundance of amino acids, again, it will not be activated.  So, for instance, one amino acid that activates autophagy very well is leucine. And if you're eating certain meat that are rich in leucine, this is probably not good for your autophagic state. Something else to keep in mind, and I've heard, I think it was Dave Asprey saying that if you can manage to be on under 15 grams of protein per day, you will probably keep the autophagy going.  Lisa: Because a lot of people on keto think I can eat a lot of protein, which is a mistake, really. It isn't about having—that's interesting, because I had Dr. David Minkoff on my podcast, Pushing the Limits a while ago, and he has a product called PerfectAmino, which is really a 99% usable form of amino acids and combination. And I was interested, ‘Well hang on, if I'm heading there, which is going a lot of good things in the body. But is that going to inhibit my mTOR, or autophagy’? Sorry, because I've got too much leucine in there? Dr Elena: This is a very good point for all of this process food as well. So, for instance, there are some ready meals you can get or some protein bars that claim to have all the low carb and everything. And then they slam a badge on their pack saying that it's vegan as well. But then, why is it vegan if it has all the amino acids because that's one of the selling points when you're actually on a vegan diet, or you have some days where you are on a vegan diet. You want to get yourself in a state of partial amino acid depletion to get this beneficial effect of enhanced autophagy. And on intercellular toxins and so on.  Lisa: Right, so for certain periods of time, you want to do this, and it's a cycling thing, you don't want to be completely deficient of aminos for too long because then your body will start to break down. Dr Elena: This is what I do personally as well. So, during the week, so I am a fan of cattle/carnivore diet. So, this diet is quite comfortable for me and I enjoyed it quite a lot. But then during my week I try to have some days where I'm either vegetarian or vegan, just because I want to have those benefits.  Lisa: Yeah. Up and down. And then this seems to be a theme in biology all the time is that it's not one thing. It's not staying on keto for ever and ever, amen. It's about doing cyclic keto or cyclic vegan and it’s cyclic. And our body loves this push and pull—when there’s recovery and there’s growth and then clean up phase, growth clean up. So autophagy can be activated through fasting. It can also be active through having resveratrol and upregulating the sirtuin 1 gene, how else can we activate autophagy? Dr Elena: So there are different ways, there are different things you can really implement in order to activate autophagy. And I think that it all has to do with how you build your lifestyle in general. So, I think that in order for your body to function properly, you really need to have a kind of a healthy routine in general. And an analogy that I can give you there is that there are people that would buy a couple of supplements, and then they would be so proud of it. And then they would say, ‘Oh, yeah, but I'm taking those supplements now, and I'm so healthy’. And then their biorhythms are all off. They sleep at 5am every day. And they're eating crappy foods or super processed foods.  Lisa: Yeah, it’s not going to work.  Dr Elena: It’s all good. So, I think that when it comes to being healthy and activating your autophagy levels and having a healthy lifestyle in general, you need to start with the basics first.  So, the intermittent fasting is definitely the first step to take in order to become a bit healthier. And from the research that I'm reading, and from the things that I'm implementing, I definitely believe that both anecdotal and scientific evidence point towards the fact that intermittent fasting is actually the way to go. I mean, there are conflicting opinions out there and there are pros and cons in every diet, and so on. And I get that. But I personally believe that with intermittent fasting, if you try to narrow down the window where you're uptaking food, this is very, very good for you. So, this is step number one.  But then again, so either you're trying to raise your NAD levels, or you're trying to activate your autophagy, because those pathways are quite intertwined. And what you eventually want to do is you want to have increased levels of sirtuin, and sirtuin 1 in particular, and sirtuin 3, of course, and so on. And for this reason, in order to preserve this pool of NAD that is available for the sirtuin 1 to activate itself and activate the autophagy pathway.  Another small tip that I can give is to actually avoid sunlight, which is something that people don't really consider. But what happens when we're exposed to sunlight, when our skin is exposed to sunlight for prolonged periods of time, we start getting the DNA damage. And when you get the DNA damage, you have PARP activation, and then again, you NAD pool... Lisa: Wow. I never connected those dots. That's really interesting. So, because—I mean, we need sun. We need sun for vitamin D and for our mood and all that sort of stuff. So, you're not saying don't have any sun.  Dr Elena: Yeah, sure.  Lisa: But because the sun is causing DNA damage, it's going to cause more PARP activation, it’s going to have the sirtuin genes going to repair the DNA, that's going to use up the body's resources is what you're saying.  Okay, wow, that makes sense. Makes sense. And then by the same token, like things like smoking that breaks DNA, like no tomorrow. This is why smoking ages you is because of all the DNA breaks. And this is why, when you're in the sun for hours every day, you get wrinkly skin and you get collagen lost and all the rest of the things that are happening. So, anything that's going to be causing DNA breaks is going to cause you to age quicker.  Dr Elena: Exactly.  Lisa: Using up the resources basically. Wow, okay. Dr Elena: So it's obviously—you don't have to become a vampire and dissipate walk in the sun when you want to go somewhere. But sunbathing for hours is definitely not something you want to do with—to get your body go through, basically. So that's another tip.  And then something else, really, really simple that can be implemented on a daily basis in order to maintain your sirtuin levels, and as a result, your autophagy levels, and your NAD levels is also to take a tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil, which contains oleic acid. And it basically does the same job as resveratrol. And it's interesting—I think that there's been a recent research article out that shows that like oleic acid might even be more efficient than resveratrol, in terms of activating sirtuin 1, which I think it's really, really cool.  Lisa: So yeah. Well, combine the two. I do. Dr Elena: Yeah, absolutely. You can do that. And then, you need to make sure that the extra virgin olive oil is actually of a very good quality because there is a bunch of...  Lisa: There is a bunch of rubbish out there. So, make sure it's from an orchard that you know, it's cold pressed, it's all those extra virgin, it's all that sort of good stuff. And not—how do they do it with solvents and stuff? Or that it's come from multiple orchards and being cut with other oils. It's a really, really important point. And then oleic acid does so much good things in the body. But isn’t that fat, Elena? Like lots of people are like, in their minds are going, ‘But oil is fat. It’s the same with MCT oil. Isn’t that going to make you fat when you eat fat’? Just going to put that around.  Dr Elena: There are good fats and there are bad fats. So, olive oil is good fat. MCT oil is a good fat. Avocado is a good fat. So, not all thoughts are made equal. So, this is definitely something important to keep in mind, especially with a good quality extra virgin olive oil.  Lisa: Because each one of our cells is a membrane that has a phospholipid, isn't it? So we need that,  actually, this building of ourselves into the integrity. Dr Elena: We have a phospholipid layer in the brain as well. And this is why we actually supplement with omega 3 fatty acids, because this is what it does. So, this is what omega 3 fatty acids do. They go into the phospholipid membrane, and then they basically... Lisa: Make the integrity of that membrane better. Dr Elena: Yeah, they contribute to the healthy phospholipid layer in the brain.  Lisa: So that's why it's very important for neurodegeneration to have omega 3s going in and again, people get quality omega 3s. Not your cheap supermarket ones that are perhaps oxidised and have been sitting on the shelves for six months. So really important to get a reputable source here. And omega 3 is of course in fishes as well, and krill, and so on.  Okay, so but is there a downside to fat? Because I studied epigenetics and a lot of people's profiles come back with don't have too many fats. And it's been one of those things in my head is like ‘Why would some people not come back with you shouldn't have too much fat’? I mean, there are things like gall bladders been removed. That's a pretty specific thing. But is there a genetic component? And probably not your wheelhouse, really, but is there a genetic component to your ability to process fat? Dr Elena: There is a genetic component, and I've actually seen this with a family that has a history of very problematic digestion of fat, and so on. Absolutely. But yeah, again, not all fats are made the same. And when you cut off the bad fats from your life, things change and everything changes really. Lisa: Yeah, it really is very satiating, too to have a little bit of fat and that can really help with cravings and blood sugar spikes—we're getting off topic.  So you have a company, NMN Bio, which produces nicotinamide mononucleotide supplement. And you've got a whole range of other stuff coming as well. Why did you decide like, you need to get this out there on the market? Based on your research and your knowledge around this area, why is it important that people take NMN if they're serious about slowing aging? Dr Elena: So first of all, I came across the biology of NAD and NMN during my PhD studies and my research kind of led me into this field because I was studying autophagy neurodegeneration. And actually, I still cannot disclose my research.  Lisa: Yeah, it’s not published yet.  Dr Elena: My research paper from my PhD is not published yet, but hopefully soon, so we're about to submit it quite soon actually. So for this reason, I started studying the biology of NAD and I actually saw how important and how crucial NAD is to the cell and what happens when we have a lack of NAD and depletion of NAD pools in the cell. And I've been supplementing with different kinds of vitamins and supplements my whole life really. So, I was watching closely this space for a while, and I was taking different supplements myself for a while.  And so, when I came across NMN and I realised that actually there is this strategy where we can supplement with a precursor in order to increase our energy levels, I found it really, really interesting. And I thought to give it a go myself and try it out and see the results. And then what shocked me was that the immediate effect of the supplement—so within a few days, you can already feel a difference in your energy levels and your focus. And this comes from the fact that sirtuins are responsible for so many molecular processes in the cell. And this is why you have this effect, including the mitochondrial biogenesis, which gives you basically increased ATP, consequently.  Lisa: You get actually more mitochondria. So, like, if you got heart disease...  Dr Elena: The production of more mitochondria, and then they produce more ATP as a result. And then you have this magic energy, yeah. This is why I thought to bring this product into the market. And the other reason was that there was not enough reliable suppliers on the market, which is crazy, because it's actually quite a popular supplement. It's been on the rise, the interest was rising for the past couple of years, but what we're seeing is there is a lot of white labelling companies that don't offer any certificates of analysis and so on. And also, you have even big companies not offering proper certificates of analysis, which was me like, it was…  Yeah, I don't understand. You have a big company, and you have just the purity report from like, 18 months ago, and you don't have any other analysis, such as heavy metals, or pH or microorganisms. So, the consumer is actually not confident in buying from you. And I wanted to deliver the best quality for myself and my family. And then I said, ‘Wait a minute. This is not done, right’. And this is why I launched the company because I wanted a company that was completely transparent. And I even say it on the website, that if you're interested in finding out who our suppliers are, and so on, and have any questions about our supply chain, just feel free to reach out to me. And I would be happy to disclose all of those things. There are other companies that you can't find any registration number, or who the founder is, and so on. And it's quite confusing, really, because like you— you don't know who you deal with.  Lisa: This is the same with the whole supplement industry. On the one hand, it's good that it's not regulated by the FDA, and whoever else, there are authorities around the world. Because like, then—they are turned into the pharmaceutical industry, which don't get me started. But on the other hand, there's not enough regulation around the quality control.  And one of the things when I was searching for NMNs, searching the world for it, I had to go overseas and import it to friends in America and get it out of there. And this is why I like—was super excited to discover your work. And then, we've since now made it available down here. So, we're going to branch down here in New Zealand for New Zealand, Australia. And I wanted someone who I could trust, who has all the scientific knowledge behind it, there's all lab tests, etc. And that was really important for me for quality.  Just on a side note. So I've been taking NMN now for—I think—so five, close to six months. I've had a massive weight loss and so as my mum. Why would that be? Like, I didn't take it for weight loss. I wasn't overweight, per se. But I had a couple of kilos that I was quite clear to get rid of. And what I've noticed—because I'm an athlete, that's my background—I haven't lost an ounce of muscle, which has been really awesome because most people are struggling to keep muscle mass, lose fat mass. My mum has lost 11 kilos. And she is of a genetic body type that really struggles with weight loss. She's conservation metabolism, from a genetic point of view, very, very hard for her to lose weight. So, I've never seen this in the history of her entire life, since I've been around. The weights just dropped off her.  Is this some sort of upregulation in the metabolic pathways? Is it improving the insulin resistance? What's it doing there to cause such weight loss without muscle loss? Dr Elena: Well, in my study so far, there's definitely evidence that it does improve insulin sensitivity, and it also improves the lipid metabolism profile. So those two are very important. And unfortunately, we don't have those studies in humans yet. But more clinical studies are on the way, and hopefully we'll have very good results this year with the NMN besides the safety studies that we already have in humans.  So in mice, what we're seeing is that there is basically a reverse of type two diabetes, which is really impressive. And if you want to correlate this data into humans somehow, I would say that, obviously, I'm not a medical doctor, and this is not a medical advice, but I would say that it does have to do something with the metabolism, and it basically improves the way your body metabolises everything. And...  Lisa: Worth trying and there's no downside to NMN. There's no, it's a vitamin B derivative, well then you will say to me, ‘Well, can I just take B3 and be done’? and it's like, no, it doesn't work like that, which should be a lot cheaper. Dr Elena: That’s the other impressive thing about this compound is that it actually doesn't have, if any, side effects at all. So even in studies with mice, where the dosage that they use in mice is actually much higher than it is in the one that we usually have in humans. So, for instance, if someone would take 500 mg, or one gram of NMN per day in humans. And then in mice studies, they use something like 200 mg per kilogram of weight, which is much, much more, and it still doesn't have any side effects. Lisa: Does it mean that we need higher dosages? Like in the human, or has it only been tested to one gram and why has it not been tested higher, if that's the case?  Dr Elena: No, I think that there are studies underway for this as well. So eventually, we will find what is the ideal dosage for humans. I think that from anecdotal evidence, people can already see results from 500 mg or one gram and so on. There are people that take more. So, some biohackers say that they take two grams or four grams, and is still very well tolerated. But yeah, so far, it does not produce any side effects in terms of… Lisa: Any downside. Dr Elena: Basically. And, for instance, for myself, my stomach is quite sensitive. So, when I'm on an empty stomach, I can't take vitamin C or caffeine and I get nauseous and so on. And this is not the case with an NMN. So, I can take it first. It is very well tolerated on an empty stomach, very mild. I really love it. There’s so many reasons to love it.  Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have my morning and night. So, I'm on a gram a day. And is there any reason not to take it at night? So I split the dose—reasoning, thinking, keeping the levels up?  Dr Elena: I mean, I would probably take it all in the morning, I think. There's been a study out that it can affect the circadian rhythms as well. And interestingly, it actually affects NMN—sorry—NAD levels affects the circadian rhythm. But it's not the other way around. So, NAD actually dictates the circadian rhythm in the body. So, for this reason, I would suggest to take it in the morning because then your whole body synchronise, then you wake up and you tell to your body that look, it's the morning now, and we're going to have increased NAD level. Lisa: Increase. Ohh okay. So, okay, I got that wrong. I haven't noticed that I've had worse sleep or anything like that, or any rhythm has been out. But I would definitely swap to doing—my thinking process around that was keeping the tissue saturated over a 24-hour period, as opposed to all at once and then perhaps dropping, but I don't know. What is the half-life of it? Do you know? Is there any sort of evidence around that? Dr Elena: I actually, not sure. No, no.  Lisa: There’s no evidence yet. And so yeah, there's a ton of studies still being done that are currently, like this year, like going to be coming out, which is going to be really exciting. So that we're going to get more evidence. I mean, there's this stuff that I've been reading around fertility in animal studies, and they're starting to do human studies, which I personally am very interested in, in reversing aging of the ovaries and even with... I mean, the mice study was incredible around fertility, where the mice were postmenopausal, they actually knocked off any existing eggs with chemotherapy. And then gave them NMN and the mice went on to have babies. And there was a whole study. Dr Elena: This is why I get so excited about NMN and this is why it's my first product because frankly speaking as a scientist, I've never seen results like that with a natural compound.  Lisa: No? Dr Elena: Because there is a bunch of natural compounds out there, there is a bunch of other supplements. And what we're talking about spermidine the other day...  Lisa: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.  Dr Elena: ...another autophagy activator. Quite an interesting supplement, yes. By the way, it's also an mTOR, independent autophagy activator, which is good. Lisa: Another very good reason to take that as well. And we were looking into that aren’t we, Elena about adding that?  Dr Elena: Yeah, absolutely. We will look into this, but again, you don't see results, like the ones that you see with NMN in multiple studies from other compounds, it's really fascinating. Lisa: Wow, so yeah, so there are other products that are going to... And this is a super exciting thing, like were our grandparents or our parents even didn't get the chance, like, with aging was aging, and there was nothing that you really could do to influence how fast you aged. They weren't aware of it. And later on, it's become well, if you eat better and you exercise a little bit more and you stop smoking and, and stuff, you’ll age slower. But now we're taking exponential leaps in our knowledge. I mean, I fell into this realm when I was reading Dr David Sinclair's book, who is a very prominent scientist at Harvard Medical School, and made his book, Lifespan, which I totally recommend people reading. I was just like, ‘Oh my gosh, if I can stay healthy now’, because I'm 52, ‘if I can stay like, really, in top shape for another 10 years, by then we're going to have stuff that will help me live really long’. And that really excites me. And not just live long, but live healthier.  Dr Elena: That’s the important part. The important part is not to just increase your age, it’s to increase your health span. So, the time that you're spending being healthy. And what you're referring to is actually called the aging escape velocity, where basically we’ll have more advanced research coming in every year of our lives. And this will eventually expand our lifespan, which is amazing. And I also think that if we preserve ourselves well, we might as well see this in our lifetimes, which will be amazing.  Lisa: Absolutely. And I want another few decades, please. Listening to Dave Asprey, who by far, got... Dr Elena: I want another like, few hundreds.  Lisa: Yeah, well, I mean, I know it sounds ridiculous right now. But if you listen to Dave Asprey saying conservatively, and Dr. David Sinclair, too, like, conservatively, we could live to 150, 180, and beyond. Then once they crack the code, and they're actually able to turn the cells back to which they are working on right now. And which they can actually go in the petri dish, from what I understand like with skin cells and make them immortal. And they can't do it in humans because it's too risky, they could turn you into a tumour and stuff. But with the Yamanaka factors that were discovered a decade or so ago, they're actually able to turn the clock back to the point of you being a 20-year-old again. And this is like, ‘Wow, this is pretty exciting. Being able to regrow nerves, spinal injuries, people who have gone blind from macular degeneration’ — all of these things are coming down the line. This is very, very exciting.  Dr Elena: There are several advancements in this field. So, as I said, my PhD is also in stem cell biology. So, I was working with human embryonic stem cells in the lab, and what they can do on a dish is just mind blowing. Because what I was able to do was to take human embryonic stem cells, and then dictate their fate, basically, with different growth factors, and then differentiate them into neural precursors at first. And then to push them further in order to become terminally differentiated neurons. And like four weeks later, you basically have a human brain in a dish and it's a primary human cells. And it's an amazing, physiological irrelevant human platform as well to study disease. And this is what I was doing during my PhD.  So, I’ve seen it with my own eyes. And every time I would do, I would go through this process, I would differentiate the human embryonic stem cells into neurons. It would be as exciting as the first time because of what it represents, because it does represent the progress that we've made so far. And I personally started human embryonic stem cells for the sake of drug discovery. So, I wasn't interested—my project was not focusing on different therapeutic applications. However, I know that there are many advancements in this field as well. So, we do have clinics in America, where you can have a total body rejuvenation, stem cells, and so on. And this technology is definitely advancing.  And I've been actually thinking about the application of this for myself. So as you know, I recently had a dental injury. This is something to keep in mind for the future. So perhaps in the near future, I can just inject myself with a bit of a stem cells there...  Lisa: And that’s already happening to a degree. I mean, I've got a doctor friend up north, who's doing stem cell replacement for joints, and so on, for degenerative joints. Because stem cells, basically, for people who don't understand why this is important. The stem cell is the original like cell, but before it decides, ‘Am I going to become a skin cell, or a neuron or a liver cell’, it differentiates. So, it's a pluripotent stem cell, it can become anything. And so, in the lab setting, you're going to be able to say, ‘Well I want your cell to become a liver cell’. Will we eventually be able to grow organs that can be used for transplantation? Is that sort of one of the end goals?  Dr Elena: Absolutely. And it's already been done with some organs. So for instance, I've heard that there is a research group that basically 3D-printed a functional thyroid gland from stem cells.  Lisa: Wow. 3D-printed. So, the printer gets these differentiated cells somehow, and then makes it into a functioning organ that they will eventually—they're going to be able to actually transplant this into people and save the whole organ donation, horrific troubles that we have currently.  Dr Elena: Yeah, exactly and I think that we're not too far away from this from whole organs being recreated in the lab. We already are able to actually do a 3D culture in the lab and create the so called organoids. So for instance, from stem cells, you can do a brain organoid, where you have a liposphere and it basically consists of different kinds of cells that you see in the brain. So it would have neurons, it would have glial, it will have astrocytes, and then it would have this brain organoid and then you can study it.  So, we're already getting there. We’re close, we’re much closer than we thought we were 20 years ago. And I think that we're not far away from having different kinds of organs being grown in the lab for transplants and so on.  Lisa: Hopefully not our brains because it's the seed of who we are. Honestly reading Dr Sinclair's book, I was like, ‘Am I in a Star Trek movie or something’? because it is pretty, pretty amazing. But when you do this, you also ask that to understand the whole process and how the whole thing functions, and then you can actually really slow down neurodegeneration and optimise things.  And so the NMN that we're talking about right now is the beginning of this really exciting road, which we're going to be staying abreast of. And hopefully adding to what we have available to the consumer right now for prices that are not moon money, that it's out of anybody's reach, but actually what you can do today so that you can preserve your health. So that in 10 years’ time, when the real crazy stuff starts coming on line, you'll be able to live longer and healthier lives. And that's the whole goal of it.  So before we just wrap up, I just wanted to reiterate again, so how is autophagy—can you just put that—how is autophagy related to NAD and sirtuin genes? Can you just put that two pieces together again, just repeat that a little bit? Dr Elena: Sure. So basically, what happens is that you do need autophagy to recycle different damaged organelles in the cell when something goes wrong. So, and this is quite prominent in neurodegeneration because the reason we have—let's say, aggregate from proteins in neurons and dysfunctional mitochondria and so on is because neurons are terminally differentiated cells. This means that they don't divide anymore. So, they rely on autophagy in order to have their housekeeping function because they can't divide the junk away. Okay. So that's the reason why autophagy is important in terminally differentiated cells such as neurons.  Lisa: So there's no hay flick limit for a neuron. There is just only one—when a neuron becomes a neuron, that's a neuron. Okay. Dr Elena: Yeah, yeah. And then that's it. And what happens with the activation of autophagy, one of the signals is—comes through sirtuin 1, which basically can activate the transcription factors that are related to autophagy activation, which is the TFEB transcription factor, EB and FOXO, which are basically influenced the activation of autophagy. And more specifically, the mitophagy as well. So, mitophagy is the arm of autophagy that is responsible for the mitochondrial clearance in the cell. Lisa: Yep, so mitochondria, just for people, are the powerhouses of the cell. This is where a lot of—so all of the energy is produced, if you like. And so, this is why mitophagy, as opposed to autophagy, so mitophagy is doing the same process, but within the mitochondria to keep your mitochondria healthy. And if your mitochondria are not healthy, and they're dying, and you're not having enough mitochondria in your cells, then you are going to be sick. And that could be heart disease, it could be neurodegeneration, that could be anything. So, keeping your mitochondria healthy is the basis of all bloody disease, blatantly.  Dr Elena: Yeah, exactly. So then, if you have impaired autophagy in the cell, and then you also have some sort of DNA damage going on, such as the one from reactive oxygen species, for example. And then what you have is the activation of the PARP enzymes. And PARP enzymes heavily rely on NAD levels in the cell in order to function. And NAD is also a substrate for the sirtuin genes that are responsible for also regulating a bunch of very healthy, a bunch of processes in the healthy cell. And for this reason, if you do have increased activation of PARPS, you will eventually get this NAD drain out of the cell. And this will not be enough in order for the sirtuins to function properly. And this will also deplete your autophagy. So, both NAD levels and autophagy are important to the cell. And fortunately for us, we can actually replenish the levels of NAD by supplementing with an ad precursor such as an NMN. Lisa: Okay, and so NMN has been proven to be by most of our bio available, because there's also like nicotinamide riboside which is used in a number of supplement companies that I know have nicotinamide riboside, but not many, there are some now, but have nicotinamide mononucleotide. Nicotinamide riboside is also a great molecule, but it's two steps away from becoming NAD. As long as it’s available.  Dr Elena: Yeah, so nicotinamide riboside needs to be phosphorylated and fast converted to nicotinamide mononucleotide first. And then this will enter the cell and then this will increase the levels of NAD in the cell. And for this reason—so first, this area of research was focusing on the NR molecule, the nicotinamide riboside. But then when they started studying NMN, they actually saw that there is increased bioavailability and there is increased levels of energy that come after supplementation with NMN. Lisa: Can you take—because NAD is a molecule, you cannot just take it as a capsule, and then it's all good to go. Can you take it as an infusion because I have heard of NAD infusions. I mean, it’s not available here.  Dr Elena: Well, and I'm curious myself about this, and I haven't done it, I haven't tested it. And from what I've seen—so the concentration of NAD in those intravenous injections is quite low. And I think that the same way that we have many opportunistic companies in the supplement field, we also have many opportunistic clinics that offer this kind of treatments. So, again, this is not something that I have studied in depth, and I actually don't know how much will it help. But yeah, I mean, this is another way to boost NAD, I guess, and you can try it out.  But with oral administration of NMN, we do have evidence that it can boost the levels of NAD in the tissue and in liver tissue and muscle tissue, and so on. And also, it's much easier to do and it's obviously much cheaper because those injections cost a lot. Lisa: Yes, yeah. Just one last question in relation to antioxidants, because I mean 10 years ago or so we used to think our reactive oxygen species ,oxidative stress happens through the electron transport chain. When we're metabolising, and so on, we get all these oxidative stresses and free radicals running around. And if we take antioxidants, we're going to be counterbalancing that. Does supplementing with antioxidants, like vitamin D, like glutathione, like vitamin C, and so on, alpha lipoic acid, is that going to contribute, too, to the slowing of aging, because it's going to down regulate the PARP enzymes? Dr Elena: People were very optimistic about antioxidants, something like 20 years ago. And everyone was talking about it and so on. But actually, the big studies that have been done, have shown that by taking antioxidants, you actually do not suppress aging. And there are some biomarkers that might have changed in those studies. But most of the biomarkers that they measure stay the same. Basically, saying that antioxidant is not the... Lisa: Not the holy grail. Dr Elena: ...that everyone was thinking about.  Lisa: Was hoping, yeah. Not to say that antioxidants don't have their place because they definitely do. Especially if you have a lot of oxidative stress, and you need to, like with vitamin C, if you're infected, or—I've done a whole series on vitamin C. But then it's not the holy grail for stopping the aging process, but it probably does help with not having so much PARP activation. I don't know, as a non-scientific brain, I'm just connecting dots.  Okay, so I think it's probably we've— so from a lifestyle intervention, apart from taking NMN and resveratrol, and oleic acid or olive oil, intermittent fasting, is there anything else that we can add to our anti-aging regime on a lifestyle intervention side?  Dr Elena: Intermittent fasting, and then avoid exposure to sunlight, as we said. And sirtuin genes are being activated from any kind of stress. And what we can do is we can also induce some sort of an artificial stress, which could be done, let's say with cryotherapy. This is what cryotherapy does. When you're exposed to cold, you also have this stress signal that activates sirtuins, or the other way around, so you can try out a sauna. And this will also have the same effect. So, I think this is also something to keep in mind.  Lisa: Breathing, breathing. So, sort of tumour breathing, or, like what one half does all of that sort of stuff. So, there’s hormetic stressors, there’s exercise obviously, that cause a cascade of changes and make you stronger. And yeah, it's sort of a balancing act. You don't want to be doing exercise for Africa or really freezing yourself to death, but you just want to have a little stress to cause a change in the body. So these hormetic stressors can be very, very helpful.  Okay, well, I think we've covered a very, very, very complex topic and I hope we didn't lose everybody on the way. But at the end of the day, take NMN, take resveratrol, take olive oil, do your exercise, get in the sauna, if you have a chance to do cold therapy, do that as well. Get your exercise, get your antioxidants in there as well, to a certain degree and you're going to be able to live long enough but until other things come online, and you'll be able to improve everything.  Dr Elena: Sounds good.  Lisa: Brilliant. So Dr. Elena, thank you very much. Dr. Elena has been on the show, NMN Bio. So we have nmnbio.co.uk in UK and in Europe, and nmnbio.nz if you're down at this end of the world. We'd love to help you over the air. If you've got any other questions, please reach out to us. And thanks very much for being here today. It's been really exciting. Dr Elena: Thank you, Lisa, thank you so much for having me. That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to

Since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, public health officials have been encouraging the wearing of masks to slow the spread of the virus. Now, many people who have been vaccinated are wondering if they can ditch their masks. "Absolutely not," said Dr. Nancy Nielsen, Senior Associate Dean for Health Policy at UB's Jacobs School of Medicine and Biomedical Sciences.

In this episode, Co-Owner of Champion Physical Therapy and Performance, Dr. Mike Reinold, PT, DPT, talks about his platform in the running for President-Elect of the AASPT. Today, Mike talks about the ‘why’ behind his campaign, what he’s going to focus on as president, and how to make the academy more accessible and inclusive. What is Mike’s vision for the academy? Hear his thoughts on adding value to the academy members, his plans to provide networking and mentorship opportunities, and his advice for his younger self, all on today’s episode of The Healthy, Wealthy & Smart Podcast.   Key Takeaways “I’m going to judge my success of leading the academy, if in the end of my term, you clearly asked the members ‘why are you a member of the AASPT?’ And they have a very clear and distinct answer.“ “The most important thing we need to do right now is to re-brainstorm the mission and the vision of the academy to make sure that we’re doing one thing: we’re focused on the goals and objectives of the members.” “I’m pretty certain at this point that everything I’ve accomplished in my career is because I specialised. You need to start general, but if there’s something you’re passionate about, every second of down time you have, learn how to be the best at that. Just be absolutely amazing at something.”   More about Mike Reinold Mike Reinold, PT, DPT, SCS, ATC, CSCS, C-PS is a world renowned and award-winning clinician, researcher, and educator. As a physical therapist, athletic training, and strength and conditioning coach, he specializes in all aspects of sports performance and rehabilitation. Mike is currently the Co-Founder of Champion PT and Performance, in Boston, MA, and Senior Medical Advisor for the Chicago White Sox after years of working at prestigious institutions like the American Sports Medicine Institute, Massachusetts General Hospital, and as Head Athletic Trainer and Physical Therapist for the Boston Red Sox. He has authored dozens of publications, lectured at national conferences, and has an educational website and podcast at MikeReinold.com.   Suggested Keywords AASPT, Physiotherapy, Research, PT, Health, Therapy, Healthcare, Education, Mentoring, Training, Networking, Sport, Athletics, Election,   To learn more, follow Mike at: Website:          https://mikereinold.com Facebook:       Mike Reinold Instagram:       @mikereinold Twitter:            @mikereinold YouTube:        Mike Reinold LinkedIn:         Mike Reinold   Subscribe to Healthy, Wealthy & Smart: Website:                      https://podcast.healthywealthysmart.com Apple Podcasts:          https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/healthy-wealthy-smart/id532717264 Spotify:                        https://open.spotify.com/show/6ELmKwE4mSZXBB8TiQvp73 SoundCloud:               https://soundcloud.com/healthywealthysmart Stitcher:                       https://www.stitcher.com/show/healthy-wealthy-smart iHeart Radio:               https://www.iheart.com/podcast/263-healthy-wealthy-smart-27628927   Read the Full Transcript:  Speaker 1 (00:01): Hey, Mike, welcome to the podcast. Happy to have you on. Speaker 2 (00:04): Hey, Karen, how's it going? Thanks again for for having me on your amazing podcast. I F I F I, I remember being on in the past Speaker 1 (00:13): So long ago. Yes. It has been a long time, but here we are. We're back. Speaker 2 (00:18): That's what happens when we, when we're, we're both veterans we'll, we'll call it. We're both veterans. We, we, we did this in the past, but, but yeah, no, honestly, like big kudos to you for keeping this going and doing such an amazing job with it. Thanks for having Speaker 1 (00:31): Any time. And we'll talk about your podcast a little later, but now, you know what it's like to be cranking out episodes on a weekly basis, right. Speaker 2 (00:39): And staying up with it, right. It's like, it's a way of life now for us. Speaker 1 (00:43): It is, it is. That's why there's like a hashtag podcast life, I think on Instagram or something. It's, it's a thing. It's a thing. So today you're here because you are running for the president elect position for the American Academy of sports, physical therapy. So I wanted to have you on to talk about why you're running and what your platform is and what you hope to do if elected. So let's start with, what is the why behind your running. Speaker 2 (01:13): And I love that. That's how you started this off, because that's how I start everything off. Right. If we don't establish our why, right. Like what's the point of even coming out. But a lot of people, they, they, they don't focus on the end. Right. They focus on just doing the day to day. So I love that you started off with a Y so I'll, I'll be honest with you. This is something I've been thinking about probably for the last, I don't know, several years or so. I never felt that it was the right time for me. I've had a lot of my mentors pushing me to, to run in the past and the past elections. And yeah, I mean, trust me, it's really humbling to know that the majority of past presidents of the Academy are all pushing me to run and, and kind of, you know, it's really an honor to be nominated by them, right. Speaker 2 (02:03): Like, you know, Mike boy, Kevin Willett, George Davies, Tim Tyler. I mean, it's Melissa gigantic of past presidents that were kind of nudging me to do it, but I was resistant for awhile. And I think that was a good thing because at that point in my career, I don't think I was ready. And I don't think I would've, I would've done the Academy justice for what it needed. Right. So I was kind of resistant for awhile. You know, I, I started a private practice. I have like four jobs, right? Like we all do, right. Like to an extent, you know, I'm flying, you know, to, to work with the white Sox. I, you know, private practice doing all these things with the educational stuff. So for me, it was always like, it wasn't the right time, but things have changed a little bit. Speaker 2 (02:44): And I humbly say this now. And I, I really came to this conclusion the last couple of years of my career. I, I really believe I'm on the descent. Right. And don't you think at some point in time, it's, it's all it's about, okay. I am now on the decent portion of my career and I've completely changed my focus on trying to help others succeed. And I can't wait to see the people that I work with surpassing me. Right. Leapfrog me just like we did, like when we were 20 years ago in our career. Right. And that, that kind of point. So I got, so my why right now is that I am completely shifted towards more of a leader right. In a leadership type position with my career. So both educational, both with my, my companies and with the organizations I worked for that, I thought it was a great time to do this so awesome that I've been getting nudged by, you know, such, such amazing people, but I didn't feel it was right until, until now. And I think now I have the time I have the energy, I have a little bit of the head space to now be able to, to focus on this and it's time to give back and it's time to help the next generation. So that's my why. Speaker 1 (03:56): Yeah. And that's, I think it's really important for anyone listening. If you are thinking about being of service, whether that be to something, to a section or whatever you want to call them Academy of the AP TA that, you know, you have the head space and the time. Right. Because you just don't want to be saying, yeah, sure, sure. I'll do this. I'll do that. And then guess what, what happens if you get elected and you don't have this space, you don't have the time. Well, that's just not the way to, to enter into, be of service to others. And like you said, you're at that point in your career, at least it sounds like what I got from what you said, that you really want to be of service to others, that you've kind of, you're, you're content, you're happy within your career and probably the time of your life and everything else that you can now do this for others. Speaker 2 (04:48): Right. And, and I'm, I'm very eager. Right. I had a lot of good mentors in my career that helped open doors for me, but don't get me wrong. Like we need to be the one stepping through those doors. You have to have the energy and the effort to do that. Right. But for me, it's about opening doors for others. Right. And I saw how much the Academy helped me early in my career, and I really kind of want to do that. Right. And you know, it's funny, Mike Delaney and I were just talking about those. So Mike's running for vice-president right now as well. So I'm myself for president him for vice-president. And we are so similar with our, our beliefs and everything that we have, that we were like, let's team up to try to, to do this. So that way we can really give back and help. Speaker 2 (05:29): And we both said this. We said, if, if we don't get elected at this point in time, we actually think that our time, our window will pass. Right. At that point in time, we'll probably be in our fifties. Right. And I am not sure that we would be the right people to lead the Academy at that time, because we want to still be relevant. We still have students. We still work with like clinicians and educate all, all around the country, the world, right. Where we still are in touch with them. I'm not sure if I would be the right leader six years from now or seven years from now, it was probably one of the next election. We would be open if I would be the right leader for that. I, I, I'm not sure. Maybe I would be more out of touch. So Mike and I both said, I think this is our window. If we're going to do it, it's probably now or never. Speaker 1 (06:14): Okay. So let's talk about your platform. What do you hope to accomplish as, as president, what are things that you really want to focus on? Speaker 2 (06:24): So I, again, I love, I love how you start with the why, and then, and then you talk about, you know, what you want to accomplish. I love that because to me, it's not, it's not about coming up with like a list of things I want to do. What I want to do is I want to flash forward six years or whatever it may be. Right. I hopefully would get reelected if I get elected the first time. Right? So we'll say three years to be conservative maybe, but flash forward. And what I want, what I want to know is I'm going to judge my success of leading the Academy. If in the end of my term, you clearly asked the members, why are you a member of the American Academy of sports, physical therapy? And they have a very clear and distinct answer, right? Speaker 2 (07:10): That to me is going to define my success. Because right now, the number one thing I'm hearing from people, both veterans in this field, people in the middle of their career, early career professionals, students, they, they ask, why should I join the Academy? They don't know what they get out of it. Right? And it's, it's one thing to just be a part of a group. But the question always is, what's the value? What am I going to get out of that? So that's how I'm going to judge our success as an executive committee at the end of this, is, is it very clear that we achieve the objective that you know, why? And I think the most important thing we need to do right now is I think we need to rebrand storm the mission and the vision of the Academy to make sure that we're doing one thing we're focused on the goals and objectives of the members. Speaker 2 (08:00): It's not about me, right? It's not about my ideas, my initiatives, what I want to get. It's not about me or my legacy to me, it's about what the members get out of it. And I think it's actually pretty simple. I, I looked on the website, I'm just trying to like dig out like the mission statement. Right. And it's very like corporate, right? Very like, like very about like, you know, advocacy and like, you know, making, you know, sports, physical therapy like prominent, right? I actually want to see the mission statement changed the simply the American Academy of sports, physical therapies here to help you specialize in sports, physical therapy, right? You are going to become a specialist now because we're not learning stuff like this in school, we shouldn't be learning stuff like this at school. It was very hard to be, to graduate as a new grad and be a very well-rounded proficient physical therapist. Speaker 2 (08:44): Right. But if you want to specialize, if you want the best education to learn everything you need about to become a sports physical therapist, if you want to stay cutting edge, right. If you want opportunities and networking, to be able to become part of this group. And more importantly, if you want mentorship with some of the best people out there, that is why you joined the Academy. And I know right now, a lot of people say that all the time is I'm not sure what the benefit of my membership is, and that's why people drop off. And that's why people don't renew is they're not getting enough out of the Academy. So that's what, that's what I want to achieve. And that's how I am going to grade our executive committee. If, if we do get elected is at the end of this, if it's very clear, have we achieved our mission, that the members know that our whole goal is to help them specialize in sports and to get a job in sports. Right. I think that's what people want in sports. That's a big, big things is an advanced orthopedics. This is sports it's different, right? So that that's, that's kinda, that's kind of what, what we hope to accomplish. Speaker 1 (09:47): And how, how would you go about doing that? What changes do you think need to happen to number one, help more people join the section? Cause I know it, it is hard, you know, I'm part of, I'm part of the sports section I joined a couple of years ago. I let my orthopedic one last. So I left the orthopedic and I joined sports. And I'm also involved in the private practice section. And I know it's something that we're always trying to think about in the private practice section is how can we get more people to join? What are we missing here? You know, how can we be more inclusive? So how can the sports section be more inclusive to get those people in, to get them from what it sounds like you're saying, mentorship, education, jobs and just fulfillment within your career. It sounds like Speaker 2 (10:40): Here, and this is what I think it is. The past leadership has been amazing. Right? And the stuff that even the current board has done in this last few years is really evolved, right? So there's tarnished take the next step with technology and all these other things. They're doing a really good job with that sort of thing. To me though, I, I really think we need to refresh just the vision a little bit. And I want to reevaluate all of our decisions in all of the things we provide. And just answer that simple question. Does this help you become either become or become a better sports physical therapist. Right. And I think, I think we need to take a step back. Sometimes it's not about what we think is cool or what we think is a list of objectives. It's about how do the memberships actually get value out of the Academy. Speaker 2 (11:26): And I think that's, that's the biggest thing we're going to do. So that's a little bit of the vision, but we're going to reevaluate everything, right. There's, you know, one of the big ones is education, right? One of the big ones education and staying current with, with research, right. So recently just in the last year or so the Academy got rid of one of the free benefits of being a member was access to the international journal of sports, physical therapy. And I think that was one of the biggest reasons why a lot of people were members, right. They got, they get access to a free, very well like established journal. Right. So they took that away from the membership a little bit. And again, I just wonder why, I mean, if the reason you join is to, to learn and stay current about being a sport, physical therapist, I don't want to take away benefits. Speaker 2 (12:11): Right? Like there's, there's gotta be a way we do that. Right. so I, I, you know, there's, there's, there's a ton of different avenues, right? Like you said, it's hard to go over this and just like a quick like kind of podcast, but I think it's about like networking opportunities. Cause it's all about who, you know, in this world. Right. But for me, it's about education and mentorship, right? We have some amazing clinicians that are part of this Academy that we need to learn from and that we need to go work with. Right. So we have residencies, we have fellowships. Those are great well-established things. Those are large, those are daunting, right? Like, like that's a big commitment, both time and finance for you to go do one of those things. We need to have more accessible opportunities, either online or shorter term, those types of things. Speaker 2 (12:56): I think we need to leverage, remember sports, physical therapy. That's where my background comes in. That's all I've done. My whole career is work with pro athletes and stuff. Right. Is how do you get a job in pro sports? How do you get a job in the MLB or the NBA or the NFL? Right. We need to leverage our, our connections. Like I'm friends with people in all these leagues, the PTs and all these leagues. And I've reached out to all of them. And I said, we need to start collaborating more. What if we have joint education sessions? What if we have mentorship opportunities where you come to spring training with me for eight weeks. Right. And who do you think is going to get a job when a physical therapy job opens up now in major league baseball, somebody that's just off the street with a good resume or somebody that's actually done a mentorship program with somebody already established. Speaker 2 (13:40): So that's part of the things that I think that's what I bring to the table is these connections and sports. And these are the things I've done. Like I, to me, I feel like I am I'm representative of the membership. I'm a clinician, you know, we treat our butts off. Right, right. And we're still working with people, you know, all the time we published clinical research, right. Impactful clinical research that have great implications that everybody wants to learn from. Right. We teach this to everybody after we publish it. Right. So we're on the trenches. We're working with the pro athletes. We're working with the collegiate athletes. Like I want to give people the opportunities that I've been fortunate to have. And I think that's a big part through networking, mentorship, education. I think those are the three big areas that are really push. Speaker 1 (14:24): And I really loved the mentoring aspect or Avenue of that. Especially like you said, maybe some online options and things like that. Obviously during COVID these things have become more and more prevalent, but I think it also does well for members who may be don't have, don't have the finances. They don't have the resources to let's say, even travel to a continuing education moment or even go to CSM. So I think to make things more accessible to all members or to people who want to become a member, right. Cause you may have someone out there is like, I'd really like, want to be part of the sports section. But man, I don't know if I can, like you said, do a residency or fellowship, which can be very expensive and time consuming or maybe they're a later in life PT and they have a family that they have to care for and they can't go off for 12 weeks or something like that. So I think to have those virtual options would be really great. And, and for me, I think it would be something that would really generate some interest in the section. Speaker 2 (15:38): Yeah. And that's my wheelhouse. Right. And that's what, that's what we did. I mean, it's funny. Like I stumbled into online education. Like I don't even like 12 years ago now. Right. Remember where the we're the old ones again, Karen. Right. I stumbled into that and have all these online courses now. And I did it for one simple reason. I was unable to travel around and teach. Right. Because I, I was now in getting a new baby. Yeah. Well, no, I was, no, that was before that I was in professional baseball. Right. So meaning like I worked 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I can't take a weekend off and be like, Hey, I know you guys have a game tonight, but I'm going to go teach a course in Louisiana. Right. Like they couldn't do that. So I got in that, but then yes, then you get you, and now you add family on top of that, right? Speaker 2 (16:23): Like, yeah, that's a big deal. So, so I started teaching online to kind of scratch that itch for myself, to keep giving back right. And sharing and educating and men that it's amazing how many people around the world you can touch by, by doing it online. And again, we need to catch up with that and just shows again, like, like, you know, the current state of even like the AP team totally. That they don't, they don't even have a way to a good, solid way to be able to offer continuing education credit for people with online courses. It's a mess. It just shows you how, like it's a, we're, we're getting a little outdated. I think we just need to refresh the vision for modern day, you know, this next generation of VCPS and people that want to get further along in their career, we need to meet them where they are. Speaker 2 (17:06): And not just assume that like some of the old standards that they've done. Right. And I think that's why bringing some new vision to the board is helpful. Right. I mean, the board has been pretty consistent for a long time. Right. The board has been quite academic for a long time right now. Right. There's not a lot of clinical leaders that are in the trenches, like working with athletes every day. I think there should be both, right. Like, don't get me wrong. I think we need both. We need clinical and academic in there, but I think we need to collaborate on that because I do think there's different perspectives if you know, depending on what you do all day. So I'm pretty excited for those things. Cause I actually think that's going to make a big impact. And, and again, I just think like the benefit of being a member is going to skyrocket. You have all these opportunities. Speaker 1 (17:51): Absolutely. I agree. And now before we kind of wrap things up, is there what would you like the listeners to kind of take away from the discussion? What is your main point? Speaker 2 (18:05): Yeah. vote for me now. I'm just getting abs. No, in all honesty, I'm like, I, I'm pretty humble about it. Like if, if, if I'm not elected, like I, it's not a big deal to me. I CA I can't wait to continue to continue to contribute to the Academy and help people. Right. For me, it was like, this is the right time to kind of give back and to be able to do that. I think my experience, I think I've done what a lot of people join the Academy to try to also accomplish. I've been there. I've done that. I understand what they're going through. And I'm, I want to get the Academy back to helping exactly, exactly. Achieve your goals. And that's it, it's about the member. It's not about me. It's about the membership. So yeah, and I think that's it. Speaker 2 (18:47): And you know, again, just just you know, also throw up Mike Malaney again, as vice-president, because I humbly, I can't do this by myself. Right. We're all busy. Like you're busy, I'm busy, we're all busy, right. This is a team effort. And I think in some fresh vision of people that have this clinical background, like Mike and I, and I've been, I've been big sports PTs our whole career, like adding that to the current board that's already in place, I think is going to be quite a nice dynamic that is going to really help lead this Academy in the future. Speaker 1 (19:19): Excellent. And now let's talk a little bit more about you. Where can people find you, your, your podcast website, anything you want to share? Speaker 2 (19:29): Awesome. I'm easy to find, right? So I'm just Mike ronald.com. If you want to learn a little bit more about this election and the process with that, you can go to microsoft.com/vote, and there's some info on there that you can, you can get I have a podcast, I have a blog, you know, kind of blot for over 10 years. So there's like a thousand articles on there. So people always ask like, where should I, where should I get started? I'm like, well, you got a lot to catch up on. Right. There's a lot of articles out there, but yeah, no, I'm easy. I'm on social media. Like I just, I really am at the point in my career where I want to help others. So I, you know, we try to hit every, every channel we can to, to have the most impact. So, so yeah, just head to my website, there's a lot to learn on there. And and like I said, Mike reynolds.com/boat, and you get a little bit more info about this election. Speaker 1 (20:14): Excellent. And last question. What advice would you give to your younger self knowing where you are now in your life and in your career? What advice would you give yourself as that fresh face? New grad? Speaker 2 (20:28): You know, this is, this is actually funny because I, I just wrote this to my, to my newsletter last week. Right. It was kind of funny that I literally, I just wrote this last week and I just wrote like the next one for this weekend, that's going out this weekend. But I, there was one thing I accidentally did in my career that I stumbled into that I, I it's become clear now that that is what we should do. And I said, like, I am pretty certain at this point, everything I've accomplished in my career is because I specialized ready. And in this week's newsletter, I actually talk about like how to, how to arc your career path that way to do that. But like, I remember early in my career, like I got, I got some heat from some other physical therapists that I was too specialized. Speaker 2 (21:13): Right. And you were like, no, you need to be generally, like, you're not good with neurologic injuries or something. And I'm like, all right. But like, for me, like getting really good at one thing helped me achieve all the goals that I wanted to get to, to get a job in professional baseball, right. To win a world series, right. To, to open my own clinic, to open my own gym and sports performance center. Right. It was all because I specialize in something. So we need to be general, you need to start general, but if there's some your passionate about say, it's like soccer, football, whatever sport it may be. Right. You just, every second of downtime, you have learn how to be the best at that. Just be absolutely amazing at something. And I think that was the biggest key to my career is overhead athletes and shoulders, like in baseball. Speaker 2 (21:58): Like I just, I got super lucky that I engulfed myself in that environment and became a specialist in that. Right. And again, just, that's another thing that the Academy needs to do, and it needs to help people that want to get super specialized in one thing to be able to do that. So I think that would be my biggest thing right now. You know, it keeps evolving as we, as, you know, as we get older, but I think right now is for an early career professional is master the basics, but follow your passion and make sure you are just, you're putting your extra grind and hustle into like, become the best you can at that side. And then it'll grow, you know, grow over time. And then when you're lucky like us, Karen, and you're a little bit older, you, you go to work one day and you're like, gosh, I just have, I have six baseball players today. That's all that's on my schedule. It's like, it's pretty cool. You know, I played catch three times yesterday. Right. Like that's kind of cool. I got, I got paid to play catch. Right. That's kind of cool. So, yeah. So I think that would be my biggest advice really for the early career professionals. That would be good. Speaker 1 (22:58): Well, what, great advice. Thank you so much. I don't think I've heard that one yet. And I think that's a great, I think that's great. And hopefully that will help some of our students and younger clinicians as they try and figure out and navigate their career. So thank you so much and thanks for taking the time out and coming on today. I really appreciate it. Speaker 2 (23:15): Thanks for having me, Karen. You're the best. This is awesome. And I appreciate it. The LC in the future, I'm sure fingers crossed Speaker 3 (23:22): One day. We'll actually be able to see each other in person, right. Speaker 1 (23:26): And everyone, thank you so much for listening. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy and smart.

Piers opens with a bizarre story from India: a rooster/cock/male form of a chicken (wait, that one’s different) has been put on trial for murdering his owner. Was it justified? Absolutely. Does this story seem like it might be made up? Absolutely. Piers insists that it’s not and that’s good enough for us!   Katherine, casually interrupting everyone else by sipping her Fresca, follows with the history of the Swiss Chalet franchise in Canada. If you’re Canadian, you know what this is. If you’re from anywhere else, you’re probably picturing a high-end ski chalet in Switzerland, which couldn’t be further from what Swiss Chalet is all about: delicious dead chickens, that may or may not be related to the rooster on trial in India.    Adam does a segment that we’d describe here but you’ll have to listen to believe the level of trickery. He calls the segment “Two Truths and a Gladiator” but please do not believe anything he says. This is what it’s come to. By the end, Adam realizes he’s gone too far but it’s too late, the rooster has called the chicken black one too many times.    Finally, Jimmy brings back a fan-favorite segment about his father, a man who would never put a rooster on trial. This is yet another epic tale from rural Australia featuring giant lizards. No roosters or chickens, we promise. Do not miss this!!!!   We love you. We miss you, even if we’ve never met you.   Katherine, Adam, Jimmy, Piers and Fresca   PLEASE RATE, REVIEW, AND SUBSCRIBE!   Follow all of us on Instagram!               @uncommontakes @adam.muller @jimmy.hvd @piersmoreton Katherine Rawlinson   CHECK OUT OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL – UNCOMMONTAKES PODCAST https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqOCeqqnbH72h_vSG4lu1yw Segment videos, clips, and more! If you enjoy, please subscribe.   EMAIL US AT: uncommontakes@gmail.com       Please email us. We are desperate.

Meet Marissa   Marissa comes to us today from Visit Milwaukee which is the metro area’s tourism agency. She serves as the Director of Sports Milwaukee which is a brand new division of Visit Milwaukee. Before her role as Director of Sports Milwaukee, she served as the Senior Sports and Entertainment Manager at Visit Milwaukee and has actually been with Visit Milwaukee for over 10 years.   You've been a part of the process of bringing March Madness to Milwaukee, what does the bidding process look like to bring March Madness to Milwaukee, and how does that process ultimately get to the NCAA?   So The Fiserv Forum is actually the host of the men's first and second rounds for March Madness in 2022. So we're very excited and very lucky because I know a lot of our sister cities throughout the country lost out this year because of COVID and having to move all of those games and those economic drivers away from their cities in the spring and now moving to Indianapolis and holding it within that bubble. It's a process and it's beneficial to have great partners in the community. For us, it's Marquette University, when it comes to going for this type of event, they really take the lead on the bid, which is great. Not every city has that. Some of the cities are left to handle most of the work in the bid process. It is a huge undertaking and generally happens about every three years is when we begin the process. We bid on numerous years through the NCAA, they have a championship director that handles the entire bid process. Cities get educated upon what we need to do, going through the system, what we need to have in play in order to make this feasible. Then we get the announcement if we are lucky to actually host one of them and that will be occurring. We actually just found out that we are also hosting the first and second rounds for March Madness in 2025 as well!    Are you guys optimistic that this will be a complete return to normal environment in 2022 when Milwaukee is hosting March Madness?   Yes, I feel really confident. As each day passes, I feel more and more. We just started hosting youth volleyball tournaments inside with limited spectators at the Wisconsin Center, and that's been really successful. Seeing that the Brewers are at 25% capacity and growing, seeing that the Bucks' Fiserv Forum is increasing their capacity and they're all happening safely and that there haven’t been cases really that trace back to any of these events is only going to continue to move us in a positive direction. Also looking at states that are wide open, like Texas, like Indiana, like Florida, who have been hosting sporting events of the youth and amateur kind, non-bubble, in a very safe way, I think is again, case and point that these events can take place without causing a huge health crisis.   When it comes to hosting events in Milwaukee, how do you guys monitor the economic impact that they have on local businesses and how big of a role does that play in the bidding process?    That is really one of our key roles is to maintain and track the economic impact of the tourism industry and its effect on the Greater Milwaukee area. So as an event comes in, sometimes they'll have data from other cities that we're able to look at and base our bid upon. Understanding how many hotel rooms that they fill every single night, understanding how many nights they're staying, because every night that they stay, they are going to be out and about in our city spending money at restaurants, going out to eat going into our museums, experiencing everything that we have to offer, and bringing their money with them, which is really nice, because that is what employees the waitstaff, the housekeepers, the people working in the museums or attractions. It keeps people working! Tourism is a huge business and especially within sports tourism alone, you're looking at about 45 billion per year total associated with youth and amateur sports which were put together by a group that I work with Sports Events and Tourism Association, I actually serve on their board. So we take that number down in regards to the impact on the Milwaukee area, which was about 30 million in about 2019.   How big of a priority is bringing youth sporting events to Milwaukee and what kind of economic impact do those events have?   Absolutely, I'm a huge advocate of sports on all levels, especially since I played. I played all sports but started focusing on volleyball when I was about 14, playing club, and then going from there, traveling throughout the country, playing in different tournaments, seeing different cities. I was lucky enough to get a scholarship to play at a D1 school in New York and experience that for several years. So I can kind of talk the talk and walk the walk firsthand. To see it from the family side, to see from the participant side, to see it from the business side. Youth sports is just a huge business and continues to grow. I don't think some people truly understand the impact because they don't have huge marketing dollars, you're not seeing it in commercials, you're not seeing it all over the place, you really have to kind of be in it to understand it or have a kid or a nephew or some relative that's playing club baseball or club soccer, any one of the club sports. With professional sports, it's a given and we're blessed. We are lucky in the city of our size to have the professional sports teams that we do with the Milwaukee Bucks, with the Brewers, with the Admirals, and so on and so forth. Those are all economic drivers. but there are different basis than the tournaments that we bring in. The tournament's really fill in those voids on those weekends when there's not much going on. Not a lot of people are coming into the city, great, there's a group that's hosting a soccer tournament that needs these particular dates, filling those fields, and then there is that that that trickle-down effect of the economic impact of again, paying the rental, but then all of the kids that are there with their families, families spend money. They're staying in the hotels, and then they're taking their kids out to dinner or buying them things while they're here, the gas during their travels. Again, it's also when you look at the indirect spending as well. So you've got your waitstaff or people that are working in the restaurants that are then getting paid additional tips because of these outsiders that are coming in. Then because they have more revenue and better finances, they live out in Waukesha County, they live outside of the area, they're spending that ancillary money on something else, which is helping then another business. So it really does have a huge impact and sometimes people don't understand how important this business is. It really does affect a large group of people.   What has made our city (Milwaukee) successful and what are those selling points that Visit Milwaukee will take into a bid to say, "This is why Milwaukee is a great candidate to host this event."?   I think two simple things, we go back and forth. Everybody has their own ideas on how to market Milwaukee. Everybody has their own opinion on whether we hold on to our qualities like we're known for our old fashions we make cheese and sausage. I mean, Milwaukee is so unique, but it's so much more than that. Every person that comes in that has never been to our city that we bring in for tours or site visit say, "Wow, I had no idea that the city was like this," and it truly is about expecting the unexpected. It has a gorgeous lakefront that you don't even know it's a lake. The best story ever in my last 10 years was somebody going to our concierge at one of the hotels and saying "Could I get a map for the route to run around the lake?" I mean, sure you could but he did probably take you about a year! Our lakefront is just like no other and of course, you can say going down to Chicago or going across to Michigan, but having how much Parkland that we have along the lake and how accessible it is to the public and with the gorgeous museums and Calatrava providing the backdrop, I don't think there's a city that compares. But I think the other thing too is we are the biggest small town in the country because we all know each other somehow, we are appreciative, I think of every day and have unbelievable Midwest charm and manners and love welcoming people. I think that's very unique to who we are.   Do you like the mentality that people don't know about Milwaukee, but when they come they enjoy it, or do you wish that there was some reputation on a national level about Milwaukee that was more apparent to people?   That is the fine line we walk on every single day. As residents or as visitors, it feels like, "Oh, my gosh, I love that people love our city." It's almost like you take it in like, "Oh, yeah, I know, that's why I live here." Okay? Because this place is so awesome, how did you not know?! But, at the same time if we don't embrace the change, which I think I have found sometimes within our city is that we are a little afraid to adapt, and to change because we do hold on to our history and it's hard because holding on to that history is what makes us so charming. But if we don't take those steps to move forward, we'll kind of get lost in the shuffle. So we have to continue to have that balancing act of making sure that we are being showcased in Vanity Fair, which we had an article about Milwaukee, making sure that we're known as the best-kept secret, kind of like Portland went through that whole transition or Nashville. Nashville now is just "Nashvegas", as some people will say, it went from 0-10 and 2.5. I don't know if that's necessarily the direction we will be in but I think we need to find that happy medium and continue to ride that wave. Because we are cool, we are underrated!   Can you talk a little bit about just the Milwaukee sports fan and how important they are to the success of these events?   Oh, absolutely. Before I started working for Visit Milwaukee, I worked for the Milwaukee Bucks for almost two seasons. The Milwaukee fan is unbelievably dedicated to a point where they feel that they have ownership in the products and that they’re a part of the team. I mean, they have to question every decision being made, if it's not something that they would do and I love it because we're passionate! We are very passionate about our sports which makes for a great fan and a great fan base for all of our teams. Then also that makes us a great city to bring in new events. I think we're always open and excited to see something different because there's really a wide range of what sports are. We keep talking about hockey, we talk about basketball, we're talking about baseball, but, you can go down the spectrum of USA ultimate, which is frisbee, it's fencing, which we do really well at. Golf as well, we are a huge destination and that's really been our focus on the state level. A few members of our team here have been in the trenches for the last few years to make sure that we're making ourselves the number one golf destination. Thinking about the top-notch courses that we have, we're hosting the Ryder Cup at the end of this year, which very hopeful they'll be at full capacity! This is going to be on a worldwide stage to host something of this caliber. Even look at our Pettit national ice Center, which is right in our backyard, in 2018 we hosted the long track Olympic team trials, and most likely we'll be hosting for 2022 as well. There's something to be said, I mean that really pushes Milwaukee and puts us on the international map.   Let’s talk about your new role. Can you speak to why Visit Milwaukee created this sports focussed role, what you hope to accomplish and what your priorities are as the Director of Sports Milwaukee?    This has been a passion project of mine for the last 10 years. There are numerous other cities that we compete against, that we work with, that all have a dedicated sportsperson, sports department, Sports Commission, or just some dedication to sports tourism. So I have been trying to push the needle and yes, it's crazy because you have such joy, you look going into 2020 it was like oh my gosh, this is actually happening. All right, we're gonna make this announcement. All right, we've got the Ryder Cup coming, we had the DNC, Milwaukee was a buzz! To be a part of that, and to see this come to fruition, I'm very grateful for our new leadership that has come on board and was able to look and realize what I have been trying to accomplish is feasible and to get their support 150%. So there it was in February, you get the announcement out, and then a few weeks later it's like "What's this thing that's happening over in Europe? No, we're good. Wait, oh, we're shutting down the office for two weeks? Okay, but we'll be back." We still had events that kept hanging on waiting, thinking it's going to change, it's going to change. So last year was just a huge transitional year for all of us and trying to do what we can to make tourism work amongst a pandemic. But again, given all of that it also gave us time to really look at how we want to approach Sports Milwaukee, and what we want it to be what is our vision. Now we're able to put that out there to the public and it coincides with the start of sporting events and we have really recognized that throughout the country, youth and amateur sporting events have really been the first to return. It's something we've talked about for the last year, as some events started last July, last June and now we're seeing it spread throughout. Of course, my key is to bring in economic impact. I want to see our hotels full, I want to see people working because of the business that we do and it is also my love for youth and amateur sport in terms of what it brings to kids. I think it is so important, it teaches teamwork, it teaches discipline, it teaches so many life skills that you will carry forward in life and it's so important to the mental and physical health of our youth. So I think of Sports Milwaukee as a marketing arm of Milwaukee, with a little bit of advocacy and I hope to keep building upon that and growing our team internally and really becoming a resource to everything sports.   And so much more…

Are the kids in cages at the border a heartbreaking sight? Absolutely! But is it hilariously ironic that a bunch of Mexican, Guatemalan and Honduran kids are wrapped up in space blankets like human burritos? You bet your sweet ass it is!!! Ted Cruz stopped in on his way back from Cancun to let us know that these places haven't changed since when we first heard about them when Trump took office. Thank you for your service, Ted! Austin Powers ran a ship aground in the Suez Canal and Captain Underpants' author is a huuuuuuge bitch! Featured Music Company of Kings - Reckless Kelly   Sponsors Stetson Ranches Loma Livestock OX Bar Custom Cowboy Gear Houston Boot Company Go Follow  Danger Aaron Jese Stetson Loma Livestock Facebook YouTube  Website   Contact  matt@burnin-daylight.com Beer Fund Spotify Playlists Featured Music Playlist Requests Playlist

On this episode of the Absolutely Not podcast, Heather claps back at herself bc the hormones are making her feel like a genetically modified chicken tender with a side of sassy dont-give-a-F#ck ranch. She takes your voicemails and realizes y'all are pretty much in the same boat. Love and Light!    Head over to WOO More Play and use code ABSOLUTELY for 20 percent OFF your order.   Head over to NoDaysWasted.CO/ABSOLUTELY and use promo code "ABSOLUTELY” at checkout for 20% OFF your order   Get started today at StitchFix.com/absolutely and you’ll get 25% off when you keep everything in your Fix!   Get your hands on some of GoMacro’s delicious MacroBars today by going to gomacro.com and using promo code ​absolutely​ for 30% off plus free shipping on all orders over $50!   Produced by Dear Media. 

On this episode of the Absolutely Not podcast, Heather claps back at herself bc the hormones are making her feel like a genetically modified chicken tender with a side of sassy dont-give-a-F#ck ranch. She takes your voicemails and realizes y'all are pretty much in the same boat. Love and Light!    Head over to WOO More Play and use code ABSOLUTELY for 20 percent OFF your order.   Head over to NoDaysWasted.CO/ABSOLUTELY and use promo code "ABSOLUTELY” at checkout for 20% OFF your order   Get started today at StitchFix.com/absolutely and you’ll get 25% off when you keep everything in your Fix!   Get your hands on some of GoMacro’s delicious MacroBars today by going to gomacro.com and using promo code ​absolutely​ for 30% off plus free shipping on all orders over $50!   Produced by Dear Media. 

The Nuggets beat the 76ers tonight ONLY because of the altitude of Ball Arena. That's totally definitely 100% the only reason. Absolutely. Way up here in the clouds, Dan Tanner somehow found enough air to bring you another edition of In the Paint.

You are your number one investment. Join Kelly Rich + Brian Richards, the founder of Sauna Space, for a conversation on healing using modern tools that channel the wisdom of our ancestors. Together they discuss what Near Infrared Sauna + Light Therapy are, the benefits, usage, symptoms of detox reactions, canceling out blue light damage to your body, the flicker effect (hint: it can effect highly sensitive people!), EMFs and Kelly shares her experience with a recent injury and how one simple tool helped to speed up her recovery time. Schedule your next intuitive reading or mentorship with Kelly Rich here!Click here to access Sauna Space!--Kelly Rich is an International Intuitive Soul Reader, Psychic, Medium, Energy Medicine Practitioner and Educator offering intuitive readings, mentorships, trainings, retreats and events globally. You can learn more about Kelly + her offerings at KellyRichIntuitive.com and on Instagram @KellyRichIntuitive  --In 2008 SaunaSpace founder Brian Richards needed to make a decision: fill prescriptions for  acne,  insomnia, and adrenal fatigue, or take a chance with Near Infrared (NIr) Sauna Therapy,  as recommended by an alternative medicine doctor. Today, Brian heads a 35-person team that operates 18000 square feet of workshop space. His personal journey to optimal health inspired him to create SaunaSpace’s Incandescent Sauna product line, in order to help others discover the pathway to natural healing, which now includes the world’s first Faraday-Cage Sauna.Instagram: @saunaspace // Facebook: @saunaspace // Twitter: @saunaspaceClick here to access Sauna Space! --Absolutely no health claims are made or inferred. The results you achieve are determined solely by you. For any mental and physical health issues seek professional help from a licensed doctor, counselor or medical personnel. Seek the advice of a licensed professional, as appropriate for your individual situation.

Ryan Eggett and Kayla Greer introduce why marriage is so much better than being single. Is it possible that everything God has given us, points us to create a better marriage? Absolutely, marriage is beautiful, rewarding, and exciting! Sure being in a relationship is work, but so is every other good thing that is worthwhile. Have questions? Contact us at theartofdatingpodcast@gmail.com Website: http://theartofliving.live/about-ryan-eggett/ Recorded: March 29, 2021

On this episode of We Chat Divorce we welcomed Melissa A. Gragg, CVA, CFE, MAFF, CDFA, and owner of Bridge Valuation Partners. Melissa provides litigation support services and expert witness testimony for marital dissolution, owner disputes, commercial litigation, business interruption claims, personal damage calculations, lost profits, and personal injury. She also conducts business valuations for purposes of estate planning as well as mergers and acquisitions.  Hosts, Karen, and Catherine sit down with Melissa to discuss Business Valuations and Divorce. Let’s get into it! Approaching the valuation process and understanding the reasons why.   The difference between getting a certified valuation and a non-certified valuation. The space of divorce, the space of mediation, the space of collaborative, and how valuation theory fits within that. Learn More >> https://www.valuationstlouis.com/about-valuation-experts Find Bridge Valuation on Facebook >> https://www.facebook.com/ValuationStLouis Follow Melissa on Instagram >> https://www.instagram.com/msvaluation/----more---- If you have questions for us or a topic you’d like us to cover, contact us at hello@mydivorcesolution.com or visit MyDivorceSolution.com    The We Chat Divorce podcast (hereinafter referred to as the “WCD”) represents the opinions of Catherine Shanahan, Karen Chellew, and their guests to the show. WCD should not be considered professional or legal advice. The content here is for informational purposes only. Views and opinions expressed on WCD are our own and do not represent that of our places of work. WCD should not be used in any legal capacity whatsoever.  Listeners should contact their attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular legal matter. No listener should act or refrain from acting on the basis of information on WCD without first seeking legal advice from counsel in the relevant jurisdiction. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on WCD. Unless specifically stated otherwise, Catherine Shanahan and Karen Chellew do not endorse, approve, recommend, or certify any information, product, process, service, or organization presented or mentioned on WCD, and information from this podcast should not be referenced in any way to imply such approval or endorsement. The third-party materials or content of any third-party site referenced on WCD do not necessarily reflect the opinions, standards or policies of Catherine Shanahan or Karen Chellew. WCD, CATHERINE SHANAHAN, AND KAREN CHELLEW EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ANY AND ALL LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, OR OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF ANY INDIVIDUAL'S USE OF, REFERENCE TO, RELIANCE ON, OR INABILITY TO USE, THIS PODCAST OR THE INFORMATION PRESENTED IN THIS PODCAST.   ----more---- Karen Chellew: Welcome to We Chat Divorce Podcast. Today, we welcome Melissa Gragg, CVA, MAFF, CDA, and owner of Bridge Valuation Partners. I'll let you, Melissa, describe all of those titles there. Melissa provides business valuation services for litigation and mediation. So welcome, Melissa. Melissa Gragg: Thank you. Karen Chellew: Thanks for being with us. Melissa Gragg: Yeah. Karen Chellew: So let's start off and maybe you do want to give a little bit of your background, but also talk to us about how you got into mediation. Melissa Gragg: Sure. Basically, I've been providing business valuation services for divorces and litigation for the past couple of decades, for almost 20 years. Probably about five or seven years ago, I started doing valuations for both parties in litigation, serving as a joint expert. And obviously there's things to do to make sure you protect yourself and communication has to be very open, but it started to solve some of the problems of discovery. It started to solve the problems of getting some of the documents. In that process, since I was working for a lot of attorneys on both sides and being a neutral valuation person in the middle, these same attorneys were also doing collaborative divorce and they were doing mediation for divorce. And so they said would you be willing to do that? Melissa Gragg: And I didn't really know, but I also saw even then that eventually people would get tired of going to court and they would want some other options. And so I was like, okay, let's do the mediation training. Let's do the collaborative training. And it kind of just built upon the skills that I already had in doing joint expert work. And then we sort of have, as a society, moved towards less confrontational ways of getting divorced. And so mediation and collaborative divorce are now really prevalent in divorce matters or even child custody or anything, as well as a lot of other areas. But that's traditionally where I focus for mediation. Karen Chellew: Yeah, that's great. And I think when you are able to reduce the adversity, it does allow better pathway for negotiation. And with so many people having businesses and pass through businesses and the whole goodwill factor, having someone like you to provide perspective on that can be very invaluable. I've sat in many conversations or conferences with clients and their attorneys where the first thing out of the attorney's mouth is, okay, well, we need to get three business valuations at each one I need a retainer of $30,000 without even knowing the client. So I think it's good that we're going to have this conversation today to break this down and deconstruct the whole perspective of valuing businesses. Melissa Gragg: Yeah. And I think that people don't understand that valuations and even litigation process or mediation process, it can be in stages and a lot of times at the first stage, the attorneys or the parties or the clients, they don't even know if they need a valuation. And I think that's where it gets a little bit interesting, is that you can actually work with a valuation person to run preliminary numbers. Like take a look. There's a lot of things that I can see in a tax return, either a personal tax return or a business tax return that tells me whether this is a valuation that is sizeable, right? Because if we're talking about a valuation of millions, then it's going to be very important to go deeper into that to make sure you get to the right number, right? Melissa Gragg: The best number that the documents get you to. But the other is, if it's a $10,000 business, why are you paying $30,000 for an expert to come in and say, it's worth $10,000. So a lot of times just coming in and we'll just say, hey, why don't we just take a few hours? Why don't we just look at what you have and then say, yeah, I think there's going to be value here or no, because valuation is also very much tied to compensation for the owner. And then compensation has to do with maintenance or alimony and child support. So they're all intertwined. And so you have to make sure that you're not double counting and that you're not using those things in the same place. Catherine Shanahan: Well, that really brings us to the point that is really overlooked. And that is, what is the purpose of getting this valuation? And when you go an attorney as Karen mentioned earlier, and they say, okay, let's get three different ones so we can compare them and we'll spend $30,000 on each or what have you, or when you mentioned that, okay, you might have a company worth $10,000, so why would you spend this, the swirling question here that is overlooked is what's the purpose of this? Are you in this to sell the business? Are you in it to co-own the business together? Are you in this to get your buyout? Do you need income from this business and how do we not double dip like you've said? You can't take an equitable distribution as an income stream. There has to be some kind of balancing between the two. And so a lot of times it's people coming in just scared. One spouse saying you're not getting the business because it's mine. And the other one saying, oh my gosh, what do I need to do? So when we do our recommendations and considerations in our reporting, before we send them over to you for a valuation, it's really important to understand why you want this valuation. Melissa Gragg: Yeah. And I think that business owners don't always know all of the documents and the pieces that are needed. Right. I'll get a tax return and it'll be 10 pages long and I'll be like, so I know that this isn't the whole tax return. And I really need the whole thing to look at. I'll get all the business valuation stuff, but there's a pension and the pension is worth more than the business valuation. But basically when a couple comes together, they have all of these assets or they have all of these pieces of property things, right, that they own. And then they have debts or things that they need to pay on those properties. And so a lot of people can come in and say, okay, well, you have a car. The blue book is this. You have a house; the value is this. But in the business, that's always kind of that missing piece in their personal balance sheet that they're like, we don't really know what that is. Melissa Gragg: Well, a lot of courts are going to ask to do a business valuation based on fair market value or fair value. Now, these two things may sound a lot alike, but they are not. And then it comes down to the state and how the state is defining that word. Right. And so in the State of Missouri, we're looking at fair market value, but that means a willing buyer and a willing seller. It doesn't mean that you're going to go sell the company. It means that what would the price be if somebody of the street, not strategic, not a competitor, but comes in and purchases this company. Right. What cash flow? I mean, a lot of times it comes down to cash flow. What's the cash flow? Well, if you have a business that all of the cash flow goes to pay the salary of the owner and there's nothing left, then what else is left in that business? Melissa Gragg: So it's a lot of those different nuances. But working in the middle, first of all, we'll get access to documents. Either they'll go through your process and everybody is communicating and they're like, yes, let's get all the documents together. Or they will work together and get the documents, but then we're coming together because the valuation has some subjective pieces. And so what we're doing in those subjective areas is making some assumptions. But if we look at the history of the company or we look at the prospective future of the company, those are facts, right? And then we take those facts and then we apply some valuation stuff on top of it. When we do that and we're working for both parties, we're being reasonable and kind of in the middle on those subjective assumptions. We're not saying, okay, here's a low value, here's a high value, let's average it and go in the middle. Melissa Gragg: No, we're saying, so each time I go through the valuation, like, hey, we picked this capitalization rate at this level because I see it, the range between here and we went in the middle because we're working for both parties. Right. And quite frankly, that's what I was doing in litigation anyway, but I would have one side or the other would be like, well, can you just make the value be a little bit higher? Can you make the value to be a little bit lower? And in valuation those subjective areas, you can do that, but you have to have a good reason and you have to be able to support it. And if it's just, I decided to do that, everybody else can see it. And if everybody else can see it, you're not really successfully supporting a position. You're hanging yourself out and everybody can see that you've contrived that number. So when we work together, we don't have to do that and we can support it. It's just the same work that I was doing. People come in and they're like, she's going to tell it like it is. She's just going to tell you the truth. And a lot of times I think that's what's missing because people can settle it if they have the right information Catherine Shanahan: Tell us the difference between getting a certified valuation and a non-certified valuation? Melissa Gragg: Well, I think that traditionally this valuation concept was born from accounting firms, servicing clients, and then starting to realize that there's also like gift and estate tax when you transfer some of your property or a business to the next generation. Right. So they kind of got into that. They started learning about business valuations and you see a ton of CPAs and accountants have a valuation credential, but they would only do maybe one valuation to 10 valuations a year. Okay. So we do 50 to 100 plus valuations in a year. So I think the difference is just the specialization. So you could have a credential, but I think that the next question is, how many valuations do you do a year? How many kinds? You don't typically need a valuation person that knows your industry. Melissa Gragg: They don't have to have done a million in your industry. They need to understand the space; the space of divorce, the space of a mediation, the space of collaborative and how valuation theory fits within that. There are certain things in Missouri that you can't do because the law prevents it. So the law trumps the valuation theory. Right. You can go to every state and that's going to be the same issue. And so realistically, if you're doing these traditional evaluations in your CPA, it could still be an actual evaluation, right? They have a credential, but they just don't know what they don't know. And that can get too caught up. We did a recent one that nobody took discounts. There are discounts in the valuation, but nobody took them. They were operating from another state, coming into the state that they were testifying in. They didn't know the case law. And so I think that kind of certified valuation report just needs some credential behind it. But I think that the question is also, do you do these valuations in litigation or in mediation because presenting a valuation and fighting for your position in deposition or trial and then presenting it to two parties in mediation is very different, right? Karen Chellew: Absolutely. And to your point, again, I tend to be in the middle of these situations and they'll go to their attorneys. And to your point, the attorneys are vying to get that valuation to support their client. And they know they need it to be really high or really low because they know at the end of the day, the judge is going to chop it in the middle and say this is it for most cases. Now sometimes, obviously there are some advocacy involved there, but to your point, your approach is getting to that end result and neutralizing it right out of the gate. And I think if people understood that sooner than later, they would save. So let's say they each spent $30,000 on their business valuator, they would save $60,000 collectively by just approaching it knowing that that's how it's going to be. Melissa Gragg: Right. Absolutely. But I think there's also a benefit here for mediators because I think mediators and even lawyers in the divorce arena, they stay away from complex cases. Right. Financially complex cases are harder. They don't always know the nuances of what's happening. And I think that where we come in, is we partner with mediators and we say, listen, you're going to do all of the other stuff. You're going to mediate the parenting plan and the custody. You could even do the income and expenses and the property statement, whatever you feel comfortable doing, but then we come in and value the harder assets, right? The more complex financial things. Like if you have a complex compensation package that involves warrants or stock, RSUs, restricted stock units, phantom stock, all these things that vest over time. Melissa Gragg: Or if you have a pension, but you can't separate the pension, so we need to know what it's worth today. And then you have the business valuation. So those are complex things. In my mind, as a mediator, you can still do all the other things that you had planned on doing, but you can take on more difficult cases that everybody shies away from because we come in and we understand the mediation process. We also understand the litigation process and we can help the parties. If one party is just like, well, I know that this is how you value it because I've been in this business forever, those are hard conversations for somebody that doesn't know valuation to say you're wrong, right? But if they're wrong, we have the capability of saying, well, that's probably not correct information, but here's a third party document, not just my opinion. Melissa Gragg: And that's what we've always done in litigation, is support opinions with third party data that, yes, I'm presenting this information, but it's also educating them on why their position is just, well, if the valuation is $400,000, then I get to keep the house. That's usually the thought process, it's like, well, if it's high enough, then I get to keep the assets that I want. Whereas the reality is, if people understand the true picture, right? The true reality of their financial situation, they can make better educated guess... Not guesses, but better educated decisions on what they truly want or need in that environment. And we can facilitate that conversation. Once you get past one business and you now have five different businesses or 10 different businesses, that exponentially becomes more costly in litigation. And sometimes all of them don't need to be valued. So it's a different process. Karen Chellew: And what you're saying, Melissa, I get so passionate because that is why we created My Divorce Solution. To capture all of the documentation and neutralize it so that professionals like you and mediators can take that information, that data, the documentation to support it and help these clients, these couples make really good decisions for themselves because that pathway of gathering the information, neutralizing it, helping them understand the components of the data and the documentation, by the time they get to you, they're ready to talk. They're ready to hear an unbiased approach. And the adversity has been so neutralized by that point, they can really have good negotiations. Catherine Shanahan: [inaudible 00:17:43] about how one party thinks that they don't have to give this information. And at the end of a year or two, or however long they prolong it, they end up giving the information, but if they only would have known that if they gave the data from the beginning, it would have cost them thousands and thousands of dollars or less. [inaudible 00:18:01] saying, I didn't give this because I didn't have to, or I was told that I didn't have to. And eventually you're going to do it in the least costly way or you're going to do it in an overabundance costly way. Melissa Gragg: Absolutely. And I think mediators and attorneys, especially mediators, because when they're mediating a simple divorce, right, they're just getting some simple documents, the most recent statement for the mortgage or something like that. And it's all like they can kind of handle it, right? When you start to get into complex financial situations, you can't just, a client comes in, I want to mediate my divorce, I want to be divorced by the end of the month. It's a longer process. And part of that process is the collection of the data. And if these parties are first getting divorced, they've never been divorced again, they don't know. They don't know, oh, I can get into my bank account and get 12 months of transactions downloaded into Excel. That would be easier for everybody to look at. Well, I didn't know that. Oh, we could work to put all the documents in one location. So a service that kind of assists in that collection of data will make that beginning part faster. So then, yeah, you can get it faster. Catherine Shanahan: I'm sorry. Not only faster, but what individuals don't realize is when you start off not doing this process and not working together, it adds more doubt into the non-business owner spouse. So if you prolong the data or you hold back some data, you're only putting fear in the other spouse's mind. And that's what lends to, okay, I need three business evaluations because now I'm scared. He's holding back or she's holding back data, and I'll need to pay three different people to give me three different answers. Karen Chellew: Using marital assets. Catherine Shanahan: Yeah, exactly. So again, getting together and doing it in the beginning is the best way to get the best use of your money. Melissa Gragg: And manipulating numbers always makes people very nervous because you always... Not always, but typically you have one spouse that knows where everything is. They know where all the assets, the bills paid, everything, and you have one spouse that just has been on the sideline. Maybe doesn't even have access to any of the accounts. Maybe doesn't even know where they are or if they exist. And we had a recent one where I was even suspicious of one of the parties. And every single time we got the documents, there was no suspicion. I mean, half the time, even in the business valuation, people will try to tell me what they think I want to hear or what they think, if I tell her this, then she's going to make the value be higher or lower. Melissa Gragg: I can see through all of that. They have to understand that I am asking certain questions just to know the position or if it is a difference than what the data is telling me because in my mind, the tax returns and the financials tell a story. But then the story, it's kind of like a book and somebody tore out certain pieces, right? And so I'm looking at the book and it tells most of the story, but then there are certain pages that are like, ooh, that was missing. So what happened here, right? So I'm just looking at completing the financial story and then I'm layering on the business valuation theory on top of it. Now, they sometimes think they know how to manipulate that, but it doesn't matter. It just is trying to get to the truth. Melissa Gragg: It's trying to get to that position. And I agree, if everybody has started disclosing information, sometimes they think things are way more powerful or damning than they really are. And sometimes they're even leaving hidden gems of value to just look like there's nothing there. And I think that that's where it gets a little confusing because yes, no one's going to know what they don't know, but what you want to prevent is three years down the line, they come back and sue the attorney or somebody else because, oh, this document wasn't disclosed or, oh, this account wasn't disclosed. And so you're already in a very emotional situation to begin with, the more over communication you can have. And so in that process, I typically over-communicate. And I tell people, ask questions or stop me, but I'm like, I want to make sure everybody in the room understands what the financial story is and has the opportunity to ask questions. And going through that process means you can't position the valuation to be a certain number. Melissa Gragg: If something comes to light that's like, oh, we forgot about this piece, it just layers into the valuation, but you still have the same methodology. Right. Now, most of the time in litigation, nobody wants to disclose the methodology because then they're going to come after me, things like that. The reality is there's probably 95% of the valuation, 90% of it, something like that, is theory. And the other 10% is art. And that's where you really have to get defendable third-party data to help you support your position. Right now, we're in a very unique economy. We are looking at a past that we cannot rely upon as an indicator of the future and the future is unknown. And so we sit here at a moment in time trying to explain what the value of something is. And do we ignore last year or do we use it. Do we ignore the past or do we use it? Do we look at the future? So, I mean, realistically, any time that an attorney or a business person or anybody understood valuation; right now, it's completely changed. And so you really need somebody that can come in and take all of those external factors and bring them into the picture and tell people the impact. What does that mean? Yes, I have considered it. What does it mean? And then they can say, okay, I think that makes sense. Karen Chellew: Yeah. And to all of our point, approaching the valuation process this way, I'm sure it's extraordinarily less expensive. You get a more [crosstalk 00:24:59] approach. So if people knew that if they came to My Divorce Solution, they get their documents, they get them interpreted, they're all collected, they go to their professionals, not only are they managing their divorce in a less stressful way, but financially it's so much more cost-effective. So for people who come to us midway having spent $200,000 already, they all say, I wish we came to you first. I'm sure you hear it all the time as well. So for those out there who are listening and you haven't started, or you're just starting, it's super important to know what you're arguing over or what the disputes are before you start the dispute. Melissa Gragg: Well, and a lot of times that more passive spouse that hasn't been aware of the financial situation has to be given a voice. Okay. And they have to be given the permission to ask questions. I'm not trying to be silly about it, but it really is. So I don't really come in and give permission or do any of those things, but I hyper explain everything and I explain it in a very simple way that everybody can understand, but I'm always there to make sure that the spouse that doesn't know what financial is, is content with the answers and understands because what that does is kind of deescalate the emotion when you have the understanding of the facts. Right. Because if all you're thinking is like, this person has said that we have millions and now they're saying that we have nothing, like sometimes that is the truth. Melissa Gragg: That is the hard truth, right? And so when I come in, I deal with numbers. I am very empathetic to the emotion and I allow the emotion to happen because it happens and you have to allow it because it needs to get out, but also that understanding of the true picture. Once that sets in, and then they're like, okay, I don't want to hear it from my spouse. Right. I want to hear it from this person. But once I explain it and be like, there isn't hidden money or there is. Once it's explained, then they can start to get out of that hyper emotion that was just confusion, partly and get into, okay, how do we move forward? Now, those people also sometimes need like, you can't stay in the $1 million house. Financially, it's not going to be feasible. Melissa Gragg: A lot of these things, the attorneys don't want to say. The mediator doesn't want to say. A lot of people, even in this space, are non-confrontational by nature. I don't mind confrontation. I don't think it has to be confrontation. I think it has to be information. It just has to be what is it telling us and how can I take that information and then make the best decision I've given valuations that are $1.2 million, right? And I say, listen, it is reasonable to be somewhere between $1 million and $1.3 million. So if you guys can figure out a space in there that this works, then you're fine. If you want to give up something and you know that it's worth $20,000, it's going to be your choice. That's the beauty of mediation, is you can choose that that's not that important and it's more important to the other person. And so I'm going to give on that position. Right. But you can't do it, if you don't have all of the pieces of the puzzle. Catherine Shanahan: [inaudible 00:28:35] we always believe that if you have financial clarity, then you can make smart decisions. And that's what our mission is. So if you're out there, you have the clarity and you want to give up or negotiate away an asset, that's your right to do, but do it with financial clarity so that you feel confident moving forward in your life because in divorce, knowledge is not only powerful, but it's everything. Karen Chellew: It really is. Thank you, Melissa. We have more conversations to have. We only just barely touched on this subject as we know, but I'm really happy that we've crossed paths and you're doing really good work and we're proud to introduce you to our listeners. Melissa Gragg: Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much. And your service is just an amazing part of helping kind of maybe the new way of doing things, right? The new way of divorcing. So I think we're all on the cutting edge, right? Karen Chellew: Absolutely. Divorce inside out, I call it. All right. Thank you, Melissa. Melissa Gragg: Thank you.  

Good morning, everybody. I was on this morning on WTAG with Jim Polito.   We discussed not only that Elon Musk's Tesla Organization is now accepting Bitcoin for payment but an additional interesting twist to that.  Then we talked about the Suez Canal and the problems with the Ever Given.  Here we go with Jim. For more tech tips, news, and updates, visit - CraigPeterson.com. ---  Automated Machine Generated Transcript: Craig Peterson: [00:00:00] Mining equipment. It's like those guys that you watch on the discovery channel, where they're mining for gold up in Alaska. The guys that make the money, they've got these massive machines moving all of this stuff and they're making lots of money. Well, there's specialized equipment as well for mining for Bitcoin. Good morning, Craig Peterson here. Of course, I was on with Mr. Jim Polito this morning. I had to talk about the Suez canal, this blockage. So we did, we got into that. Then also a little bit about Tesla and Bitcoin.  What is Elon Musk doing? What what's he thinking? I had a couple of ideas and we talked about them with Jim. Here we go. Jim Polito: [00:00:44] You can buy now a Tesla with Bitcoin. There are organizations that will accept Bitcoin. Here's what's different here. Most of those organizations take the Bitcoin converted to regular currency and then that's it. Well, Elon Musk must be betting on Bitcoin. I don't know. I need a guy much smarter than me here, which doesn't take a lot of work. That is in no way to take anything away from our next guest, who is our good friend and tech talk guru. Craig Peterson. Good morning, Craig. Craig Peterson: [00:01:20] Hey, good morning, Mr. Jim. Yeah. What a different world. Jim Polito: [00:01:24] Yeah. You can buy a Tesla with Bitcoins, which is that crazy currency that we talk about frequently here. When he takes the Bitcoin in, unlike other businesses, he's not then converting it. Like when you go to Europe and you're converting your money into euros. He's not converting it. He's keeping the Bitcoin. Does that mean he thinks Bitcoin is viable? Craig Peterson: [00:01:50] Yeah, boy does he ever. He's been talking about it and promoting it for a while. He bought one and a half billion dollars, of course, that sends the price up. It isn't just ransomware now being used for Bitcoin. Everything's going crazy. Look at this musician Grimes. I don't know if you heard about this, but he sold the collection of digital work for 6.3 million. Jim Polito: [00:02:19] The digital artwork just makes me laugh. Somebody makes a piece of digital artwork, which, unlike the Mona Lisa, you can't go there and just pick it up and say, I'm going to bring it home, or I'm going to take a copy of it. You can't do that digital artwork as far as I'm concerned is worthless. Craig Peterson: [00:02:37] It's a perfect copy, right? It's not like the Mona Lisa a forgery. Jim Polito: [00:02:42] It's actually right. You're right. If you copy a piece of digital artwork, it's exactly the same. Craig Peterson: [00:02:49] It absolutely is. They filed at Tesla here. This is a regulatory filing with the securities and exchange commission about a month ago now saying that they would begin accepting Bitcoin as payment for Tesla cars. Now, I'm not sure who they're going after or what they are gonna use bitcoin for, maybe he sees a Bitcoin going up even further. We've certainly seen some major runs in it. You referred to it as a currency. I think that's an interesting word because of what is. What is the currency? We have dollars that we have right now that has the full faith and credit of the government just laughable in and of itself. But anyway, everybody takes it right from the pizza shop, that first took 10,000 Bitcoin for two pizzas. They're the first Bitcoin transaction ever. So figure out how much they were worth then far less than a penny. Now, Tesla saying, yeah, you can bring in one Bitcoin and I'll give you a full car. Jim Polito: [00:03:57] I don't know. I'm just not getting it, you know what, as they say, that I think the chance to get in on the ground floor was a long time ago. I'm just not getting in on the ground floor.  I'll stick with all that stuff. Craig Peterson: [00:04:09] My son and I started doing mining, years ago, Bitcoin mining. It was just so expensive to do because we didn't have specialized mining equipment. It's like those guys that you watch on a discovery channel where they're mining for gold up in Alaska, the guys that make the money. They've got these massive machines moving all of this stuff and they're making lots of money. Well, if there's specialized equipment as well for mining for Bitcoin, and with the cost of electricity here in the Northeast, it's just not worth doing. If you go to eBay right now, You could do a search for Bitcoin mining equipment and you would find all kinds of used stuff for sale because the next generations out. And the only way they can stay effective is to get the next generation. So right now it is cheaper to mine a Bitcoin than to pay for the electricity. It's about 25 to $30,000 for one Bitcoin. If you're trying to mine it, it's going to vary. It's a little bit of a luck of the draw too, by the way, the Bitcoins they're in the $50,000 range. Okay, that makes some sense to do some mining. But again, you've still got to have this specialized equipment. That's going to cost you a lot of money and get busy. He's obviously betting on it going up. Yeah, he may be just saying, I'll convert it to a hard currency, when I hit the hundred thousand dollars a Bitcoin, he really hasn't said. Jim Polito: [00:05:37] There really are people who believe that it will too. Craig Peterson: [00:05:41] Oh yeah. Jim Polito: [00:05:42] Eric Bolling who used to be on Fox. He's a former investment person who then worked at the business channels. Then it gets a Fox. Then he had a sexual harassment allegation against him he's out. He does work for Newsmax now a few others. I listened to a podcast with him talking about it and he's betting on it. He's not a stupid guy, he's betting on it. Craig Peterson: [00:06:06] I wish I had money to bet on it. I just don't right. I'm trying to build a business and raise a family, support a wife, kids, chickens, by the way, the Fox got four or two foxes came by this morning I got four my chickens, but, we get it. Jim Polito: [00:06:22] We gotta talk about that after, but keep that thought in mind. Cause I gotta tell you a good story. Go ahead. Craig Peterson: [00:06:28] It's that time of year. We'll see what happens, Bitcoin. I just don't know. I've never had the trust in it. It takes trust to buy Bitcoin. The major drive driving force behind Bitcoin has been corporations buying Bitcoin so they can pay for a ransom when they get ransomware. They're buying Bitcoin in advance. That's part of their plan for disaster if they get hit with ransomware. Then the other thing that's really driven up Bitcoin over the years is people buying it to pay ransoms themselves. And that's a real big deal. That's something we're covering on the improving windows security course this week too. You got to keep yourself safe. How do you mitigate it? There just aren't that many places that accept it. Maybe Elon saying while we've got all of these total geeks that mine Bitcoin, now they'll trade it over. The fact that he bought a billion and a half drove the value of Bitcoin up. Is he playing the market? Is he gaming it by buying it? Driving it up, testing it, which will drive it up, right? The value just keeps going up. Who knows maybe that's even illegal. Jim Polito: [00:07:41] Well, he's been in trouble before with the SEC. Remember some of the statements he made. He should stop smoking pot, live on a podcast.  He should maybe start with that. You have to give him some credit though for what he's done was SpaceX and other things. The very fact that he bought $1.5 billion worth of Bitcoin, right after that purchase is closed. The price goes up because people seem to just see that Elon Musk bought Bitcoin maybe he's part of the whole thing and like old man, Joe Kennedy used to do. He knew when to get in the market and when to get out. Maybe Elon Musk got a little bit of that. I just think it's fascinating. Craig Peterson: [00:08:21] Hey, I gotta bring up those Suez canal thing here too, Jim. Oh no, go Jim Polito: [00:08:25] Go ahead. Go ahead. Craig Peterson: [00:08:26] I've got two kids in the maritime industry and you know that. It was three actually that have been. One of whom is a Master Mariner. She has unlimited oceans, unlimited tonnage command vessels for the US Navy and merchant vessels. And she's been through that very Suez canal before. She's told me some stories about it. I'm not sure that the pilots, now remember pilots when it comes to ships, are the specialized people, that know the harbors. Jim Polito: [00:08:59] Usually, they come out to the ship. Bring them out, they climb up the side, get in. They know the local waterways they take over for the Captain. Craig Peterson: [00:09:09] Those are the guys. You know what nepotism is, right? Jim Polito: [00:09:12] Oh yes, I do. We have quite a bit of that in Rhode Island and Massachusetts. We have a little bit of that going on. Craig Peterson: [00:09:19] I'm not sure these ships pilots over there by the descriptions I have heard. From the family members and others, I'm not sure those ship pilots are actually even qualified to get a Massachusetts voters license. Jim Polito: [00:09:35] No. Craig Peterson: [00:09:36] They are the least competent people I have ever heard of, nepotism runs rampant. If you actually want to get through the canal, you have to make sure when you go over there that your ship, you might be hauling oil, you might be hauling it doesn't matter what, but you better be hauling Marlboro Reds and M&M's because that's what powers the Suez Canal.. Jim Polito: [00:10:01] You know what, that's great. One of the busiest waterways in the world, what is it? How much of the trade of the world? 11% of the world's trade goes through and you're telling me that if you don't have the Marlboro Reds, forget about the Marlboro lights but if you don't have the Marlboro Reds and some M&M's, it's all over. Craig Peterson: [00:10:20] Forget about it. You're going to end up blocking that Canal. Jim Polito: [00:10:25] That's very, very interesting. There's a cool little app out there right now that allows you to put the ship anywhere that you want. Like, you can drop it on a map anywhere. You can drop it on your street on the map. Craig Peterson: [00:10:42] Boston public library curator. It's called when the Suez. Jim Polito: [00:10:48] I'm seeing quite a few online of people taking it and putting it in interesting places. Hey, you mentioned it and then maybe we should just now close with is that program that you're putting on. We always ask you at the end, how can folks get more information from Craig Peterson? Craig Peterson: [00:11:06] Absolutely. Now's the time to do this. This is an Improving Windows Security course. You probably also got an email if you're active on the email list. I don't want to bother people who aren't that interested. First of all, Big big problem right now with iOS Apple's operating system for its mobile devices, you should have already received and installed a patch from Apple, even an old Apple phone. Okay, good. Jim Polito: [00:11:38] Yeah, I saw Craig Peterson: [00:11:42] Android. That's why I don't like Android. Apple gets it out even for old, old phones, Number two, this Improving Windows Security course is starting this week. I hope to get the email out this afternoon with all of the details. It is going to help you tighten up your windows computer. If you're not on that email list, get on it now. Credit Peterson.com/subscribe, because I send out tips and tricks and training. We do free webinars, just all kinds of stuff. You'll only know if you go to Craig peterson.com/subscribe Jim Polito: [00:12:17] Craig that is great. Good. Good to hear from you. Thank you as usual for making the very complex simple, and we'll catch up with you next week. Craig Peterson: [00:12:28] Bye-bye Jim Polito: [00:12:28] Bye-Bye. Craig Peterson. --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

Hagglebots and Fishing Grenades Join Andrew Grant and Darren A. Smith in the twenty-first episode of Grocery Guru discussing supermarkets using Hagglebots and Fishing Grenades Hagglebots and fishing grenades You Can Read the Full Hagglebots and Fishing Grenades Episode Transcript Below: Darren A. Smith: Hello. You’re here with us on episode 21 with the Grocery Guru. Andrew, our grocery guru, how are you? Andrew Grant: Very well, Darren, yeah. You? You good? Darren A. Smith: Yes, very good. Andrew, this week we are talking about hagglebot, something you know something about, I think. Andrew Grant: Wasn’t that Robbie Coltrane in the Harry Potter films? Big guy that lived outside the school, isn’t he? Darren A. Smith: I think that was Hagrid. Andrew Grant: Oh, Hagridbot. Sorry, I misheard you. So not a Hagridbot, a hagglebot. Darren A. Smith: We’re talking about hagglebot. So I’ve got this piece that I’ve done some research on with hagglebot, and what I’d like to do is get your take as the grocery guru on what’s happening in the world of supermarkets, haggling, negotiating. So I’m going to read some of this out, but before I do, what’s your understanding of hagglebot? Andrew Grant: Well, I suppose it’s this new AI, artificial intelligence, way of negotiating. So obviously I think come out of the States. I think maybe we might use it where they automate the negotiation process. I mean in my world, it goes back to one of the scariest things I ever saw was an e-auction that we did years back. An e-auction for tinned tuna, I think it was. And Jesus, it was brutal negotiation I have ever seen when you let basically computers set the prices and suppliers don’t know who they’re bidding against. Absolutely brutal. And if I’d have been … if I’d have been the suppliers, I’d have been in tears at the end. Darren A. Smith: It’s like a blind auction, isn’t it? Andrew Grant: Yeah, literally. You place your bid, a huge amount of business, and no supplier can afford to lose it, and yet you’re bidding blind against a competitor that suddenly says no, you need to come down 50 more dollars a ton. So I guess you could call that … I mean that was serious hagglebotting, to use your phrase. Darren A. Smith: Well, it seems to be coming up more and more. Let me share this with you. There is the Olympics for hagglebots, they’re on their 11th year, and it’s artificial intelligence pitched against artificial intelligence and/or pitched against humans. And tends to be universities. The winners tend to be Turkey or Japan with the best hagglebots. We’re 11 years in but the first haggle bot was developed in the 1980s and was called Negoisst. Never heard of that. But here’s a statement I’d like to share with you and see what you think, “Humans have the upper hand understanding emotion and subject matter expertise, but can falter when there are many issues.” Andrew Grant: Yeah. I mean if you think about it, when you bid on eBay for something, that’s a sort of electronic negotiation, isn’t it? You place your bid and then you get told, “Oh, you’re being outbid.” And that works in a very black and white linear way, but it must come down to our world of food. There’s a specification for product, there’s delivery times, there’s payment terms, there’s so many, as we call them, [inaudible 00:03:32]. Could you program a computer to get all those nuances? And at the end of the day, it is looking somebody in the eye and doing a deal with them. So I can see electronic negotiation, haggling, whatever you want to call it, working when it’s very simple transactions and you’ve got thousands of suppliers. I can see it being beneficial to an organization to use almost like tick box buying. And in the last week, there’s been a few news items where a particularly large online player has been sending out tick box requests for terms of doing business. In my day, it used to be called something like a grenade fishing. Darren A. Smith: Grenade fishing. Andrew Grant: You throw an email out there with a whole load of outrageous requests, let it explode amongst the supply base, and you guarantee 50% of the fish will land up on the shore. Darren A. Smith: Wow. And I guess the online retailer, we’re talking about Amazon had done some of this. They’ve been in the press with this stuff, haven’t they? Andrew Grant: Yeah, there’s been some press about them. Darren A. Smith: All right, well let me ask you this. Walmart, you’ve mentioned, I think. They have an AI system of negotiating called Pactum, Sounds like something else, negotiating contracts and prices. But let me try this one on you. If everything is known, so this is from the AI chatbot Olympics guys, the founder, negotiations should never have to happen at all. You need zero rounds and the deal is struck immediately if everything is known. What do you think about that? Andrew Grant: I think they need to get out more. Come on, the world’s not like that. I mean think back to what we used to do, even if you knew absolutely everything, you’d still ask for that extra few P, wouldn’t you? Darren A. Smith: Yeah, you’re would. I think these guys are wrong. Andrew Grant: Yeah, well that’s the bit that says … I mean we’ve always said negotiation, and we do an exercise, don’t we, at [inaudible 00:05:51]? Negotiation workshops, the first exercise we do. And we prove that if you put six sets of two people doing exactly the same negotiation with exactly the same brief and knowledge, you get six different results, because it’s generally the person that’s the most aggressive, the most pushy, the most- Darren A. Smith: Ambitious. Andrew Grant: Ambitious, yeah. The most ambitious gets the better deal. So yeah, computers can do so much, but the minute you stick human beings in the mix, emotions get involved. Some human beings are more naturally aggressive than others. Some are more passive. Some people are just having a good day or a bad day, and it’ll change a negotiation. Darren A. Smith: Absolutely. Well, here’s another bit. They’re saying that within three minutes of a deal, the bots, by looking at our facial recognition, the pitch of our tone, how much it changes, can predict the outcome. Andrew Grant: I can imagine that. I mean anybody that’s a card player, the best card players are those that can read their opponent’s mannerism, what have you. We’ve never got into that. I’ve never got into that side of negotiation, the way people look and behave, but you do tend to pick up, don’t you, whether somebody is comfortable? I remember we always talk about never look comfortable in a negotiation. If you’re sitting back in your chair with your arms folded and your feet up with a great big Montecristo cigar, you’re possibly making too much money, as opposed to sitting forward, looking a little bit on edge, and using the language of, “You’ll have the coat off my back, Darren, next.” We all do that gamesmanship. Darren A. Smith: Well between this, I think that makes us very good trainers. I’m very interested in the behavioral side of it rather than the techniques. So I’m interested in that body language that says what are you really saying to me? And those little words that we use, which are, “About 21%,” which really means it’s not 21%, it’s much, much more or much, much less. All right, Andrew. So what does this mean for supermarkets, grocery? Is the account manager dead? We don’t need them anymore. They’re obsolete. Andrew Grant: I don’t think so. I think we have talked in previous ones of this about how the account manager’s job is going to morph into more of a shopper insight manager and that having the skills of understanding their shoppers almost as well as they do is massively important for account managers going forward. Yeah, more negotiation will go online. Relatively undifferentiated products, so bags of sugar, bags of flour, where there isn’t a massive specification, pretty easy to buy that on a e or haggle platform. But once it gets complicated and the business gets big, you’re going to need the human … Darren A. Smith: Andrew, I think we’ve just- Andrew Grant: [crosstalk 00:09:13]. Darren A. Smith: Oh, sorry. The broadband’s just catching up. Slight glitch, but I think I got the gist of what you were saying. Horses for courses [crosstalk 00:09:20]. Andrew Grant: Yeah, there does seem to be a bit of a delay. I hope the recording’s better. Darren A. Smith: All right. I think we were talking about horses for courses there in terms of negotiation. If you’ve got a very standard, basic product, then it’s likely more e-auction. Something a bit more complex is going to be more negotiating with a human. And then we’ve got shopper insight, which is going to be the real battle ground for the future. All right, Andrew, I think we’ve lost your broadband, so we’re going to bring that to a close and we’ll talk to you next week. Take care. Take a look at the Hagglebots and Fishing Grenades video on our YouTube Channel. Also, check out our award-winning blog.

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes. We hope you enjoy We Make Books! Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap Instagram: @WMBCast  Patreon.com/WMBCast Titles referenced in this episode: Ken Follet  https://ken-follett.com/books/ WMB Episode 43 with Antoine Bandele The Martian by Andy Weir Into Thin Air by Jon Krakauer Writing The Other Workshops and Resources Episode Transcript: Rekka (00:00): Welcome back to another episode of, we make books, a podcast about writing publishing and everything in between. I am Rekka. I write science fiction and fantasy as RJ Theodore. Kaelyn (00:11): I'm Kaelyn. I am the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press. And today... So today we're talking about the phrase, "write what you know," and how I dislike it. Rekka (00:22): Quite a bit. As it turns out. Kaelyn (00:24): I feel like it can be, without context as Rekka points out in this, a little bit of a cop out. A little bit of a, like, I don't know what to do here. Well, write what you know. Um, as a writing exercise, I think that's fantastic. But as a problem solving technique, I think it's lacking. Now, granted, as we point out, Rekka and I are coming from a genre fiction background, so we don't actually know a ton about aliens yet; we're working on it. So, yeah, I, um, I don't know. I'm not a big fan of the phrase, but, uh, we, you know, get into all different aspects of this. And then we spend a lot of time talking about, okay, well, how do you write what you don't know? And how do you know what you don't know? And if you don't know what you don't know, what do you do about that? Rekka (01:12): And do— and what if you don't know that you don't know anything, are you allowed to write? Kaelyn (01:16): Certainly hasn't stopped people. New Speaker (01:19): That's a, we didn't get into that. So, uh, here comes the music and we'll keep going on this. On the other side. New Speaker (01:40): I'm running out of cappuccino. Kaelyn (01:43): Sorry to hear that. Rekka (01:44): I'm getting very low. Kaelyn (01:45): So what happens when you've run out of cappuccino? New Speaker (01:48): I switch to water. Kaelyn (01:49): But how do you feel? Rekka (01:52): Um, let me tell you about it... In prose form? Were you trying to make that a segue? Kaelyn (02:00): Yes, I was. Rekka (02:00): I was not on the, uh, the wavelength of how that was exactly going to transition. Kaelyn (02:05): Well, that's because you're running out of cappuccino and you're caffeine deprived and your brain is not working at the, uh, super caffeinated level that you would like it to be. Rekka (02:13): Gotcha. Kaelyn (02:14): So if you were writing a character that was in desperate need of coffee... Rekka (02:18): I would know exactly what to write. Kaelyn (02:20): Yeah. So today, um, we're talking about the, uh, pervasive and very strange phrase, write what you know. And I say very strange, because everybody seems to have different opinions about what this means. And Rekka and I even have different opinions about what this means. Rekka (02:38): Well, the people who've said it to me have had different opinions about what it means. Um, sometimes it's somebody saying literally dig into your own life, and that's the only place where your inspiration or subject matter can come from. That kind of precludes the entire genre of science fiction and fantasy. Kaelyn (03:00): I don't like when people say that, because I think what ends up happening is you have a character or multiple characters that's experiences are limited to your own experiences. And I don't know about you, but I don't want to read a book that's just about me. I'm not interesting enough for that. Rekka (03:18): Writers already have to struggle to vary their characters enough so that you can identify them by their dialogue alone, for example. don't then tell that writer to rein it in and make the characters more alike by making them all like the author. Kaelyn (03:34): I think it's a little bit of a trap and a trick to tell people, write what you know. Rekka (03:40): Well, I know Star Wars. Can I write Star Wars? Kaelyn (03:43): Absolutely. Rekka (03:44): Okay, cool. All right. I'm happy with that answer. I think we can end it there. Kaelyn (03:49): All right. Problem solved. End of episode. Excellent. Rekka (03:51): Everybody write Star Wars or your favorite thing. Kaelyn (03:54): Quick clarification. We're obviously talking about fiction here, because if this is a nonfiction book, then you're doing research essentially. Um, or you're telling a narrative story that happened, presumably there's documentation to back up. Um, obviously Rekka and I work in genre fiction. You know, we tend to lean a little more towards the science fiction and fantasy side of things here, but I think this applies to characters and stories across the board. Although we will get a little, as we get, dig a little more into this, we'll get a little into things that are unique to science fiction and fantasy. And in this regard, I think though, that saying write what you know, and limiting yourself to your own experiences— I mean, I don't have that exciting a life ... if I'm limit— If I'm writing a book, and we limit it to my own experiences, it's going to be a lot of pizza. Beer, Mets games, pizza, hockey, a lot of documentaries. Rekka (04:56): Makeup styling? Kaelyn (04:58): Yeah. A lot of makeup. So, I mean, do you want to read 80,000 words about that? Cause I don't. Rekka (05:04): So you don't like the minutiae of write what you know. Kaelyn (05:09): No. Rekka (05:12): So allow me to talk about the minutia for a minute. This is the knowledge you have that sinks the reader more deeply into the character at any given time, even though it is what you know about a situation, it's what you know about being deep in that situation as a human being in that space. And even though sometimes we write aliens, we still occasionally need to feel like humans in a space, uh, to connect with our readers who are, in theory, human. So in the case of the cappuccino, because one example is probably as good as another. If you know what it's like to be busy and reach for your cappuccino and realize you drank the whole thing without appreciating it, because you were so distracted by whatever you were focused on. Or, you know the feeling of looking into the bottom of your cup and seeing just that little bit that sinks into the depression formed by the curve of the bottom. And you still have a headache and you still need coffee, except it was a cappuccino and you just spent $5 on your coffee instead of a proper $2. And now you can't go get another one. Um, the feeling of realizing that it's time to switch to water and you didn't really want to drink water because it's cold and you wanted to be cozy and you're in a bad mood and you just wanted your favorite cozy drink. Um, these are all little details that you can apply to a scene that doesn't have to be cappuccino. Uh, you know, if you're relating your cappuccino experience to your science fiction character's favorite beverage that they drink in the morning could be raktajino, could be caff. The characters who can't live without it. Uh, there's also the characters who can't live without their coffee, but only on a chemical level. They actually don't like the flavor and they drink it as fast as they can. These are different kinds of relationships that people can have with something. And so you are writing what you know, and you know it, but it may not be universal. And these are very micro, visceral things that people can generally relate to. Because even if people don't like coffee, they might love tea and they know what it feels like to not have their tea in the morning. Um, or they just know what it's like to not have that piece of their routine, or for the piece of their routine that they hold sacred to be forgotten because something else is going on. So these are all things that can draw your reader in because they create a more relatable experience. And you don't need to have a degree in coffee roasting to understand how this works. You don't need to look, on the internet, what other people say about drinking coffee? Um, if it's not coffee, you know, you don't want to talk about coffee? Talk about your favorite pillow. Talk about your favorite sweater, your slippers. Write about these little things that matter. Um, write about what it's like to be sad, and then have the weather does change and the sky opens up on you, and now you're sad and soaking wet. Like these are all things that readers can relate to, even if they can't relate to your science fiction scenario or your fantasy world. And that's how you write what you know on a micro level. Kaelyn (09:01): It's useful. You're writing something and the character's exhausted, and they've just run out of cappuccino. Rekka (09:06): I literally did. Just so you know, I literally just ran out of cappuccino Kaelyn (09:11): And boy, do you know what that feels like. Rekka (09:13): I do. Kaelyn (09:14): That said I'd like to get a little bit more to a macro level. Do you have any other, any other thoughts? Rekka (09:21): Um, I'm trying not to cry. I'm in that moment where the cappuccino is gone. So continue go to your macro level. Cause I'm, I'm still here in the micro and I'm suffering. So pull me out of it. Take me with you. Kaelyn (09:33): So on the macro level, this is what I kind of call the research area. Now, people who are like true, write what you know people: if you're not a doctor, you have no business writing, anything that has to do with being a doctor. If you are not an astrophysicist, you should not be writing anything that takes place in space. This is nonsense. There are not a lot of astrophysicists in the world, so we don't get to have all of the astrophysicists writing perfectly correct science fiction. Limiting people to writing only what they know is going to produce a very limited amount of books that could end up being very dry. Kaelyn (10:14): This kind of then branches into, okay, well, you have to do research on the things that you don't know about. Let's start with research and how much of it you do and where you get it from. And then we're going to move into how you apply this to your writing and the worlds that you're creating and the characters that are living there. The research all depends on what you're researching. You know, if you're writing historical fiction, you better be really well-versed in what was going on in history at that location at that time. You better have some primary sources from people who were there. Uh, you'd better be really clear about, you know, the, um, you know, the location, the political environment of the time, the class of the—you know, let's say it's about a family—their social class, and you'd better know what the important things that you need to identify with them are like, for instance, if you're writing about somebody, um, living in reformation era England, you'd better know what was going on between the Protestants and Catholics. And you'd better say which one this person is. Rekka (11:23): That's why I write secondary world fantasy. Kaelyn (11:26): Yes. Exactly. So in some cases like that, you know, like if you're writing fiction that is set, you know, in, in our world at a different time period or, um, a different place, you need to do research to, to find out what that time or that place or that people are like. And you need to do it, not only just to build a compelling character, but to be accurate. Because if this is an area where, if you're setting something, you know, in our quote-unquote reality, you gotta be accurate there otherwise... Well, one, I don't think anyone's really gonna publish it, but two, it's not going to go over well when it's published, it's not something that a lot of readers and reviewers in the community have. Rekka (12:15): patience for. Kaelyn (12:16): Yeah, exactly. The example I always use is Ken Follet books. Uh, Ken Follet writes these thousand page tomes of meticulously researched stories. One of his series is about a specific family through various generations. And then the other is about a town in, uh, the high middle ages in England. And my God, the research this guy did into—I think it was like 12th century—English stone masonry techniques. And then, uh, the wool industry open— it, you know, like, uh, how they died and all of this stuff. And you know what, no one can poke holes in that guy's research cause, Oh my God, did he do his research! But he still wrote really compelling characters. And you know what? He didn't write what he knows, because he's not a 12th century peasant from England. He has no context for the series. Rekka (13:14): At least no one has found his time machine yet. Kaelyn (13:16): Yes. Yes. So there are certain scenarios in which, you know, you can't write what you know, you just have to do the research. Rekka (13:26): But there's also, you don't know what you don't know. And sometimes you're just going to get it wrong. Kaelyn (13:33): Yes, definitely. There are some instances of, "we don't really know, so I'm going to speculate or I'm going to make something up here" and you know, then sometimes, maybe a decade later there's a new archeological discovery and that thing that you made up, wow. That was exactly wrong. New Speaker (13:48): Yeah. Or exactly right. New Speaker (13:50): I was going to say, it'd be weirder if it was right. Then, you know, you have the Dan Browns of the world who take some theories and present them as fact and just really run with it. And sure, it makes for compelling reading and an interesting story and everything, but it's not correct. Rekka (14:08): And not going to hold up to much scrutiny. Kaelyn (14:10): Yeah. Rekka (14:10): Look, you're not there because you think you can take a college course in this. Kaelyn (14:15): Yeah. Rekka (14:15): I hope. Kaelyn (14:17): So. You know, historical fiction, obviously you really need to have all your ducks in a row, but we're talking about some different kinds of fiction here. So let's just talk about, you know, maybe not people set in earth. Rekka (14:29): Okay. Kaelyn (14:30): I live in New York city. There are a lot of books and movies and stuff set in New York city. One of my favorite things about when I'm watching something set in New York and there's a chase scene through Manhattan and I'm watching the famous locations that they're running by and none of these are close together. This person ran a mile and a half uptown, to turn around, run two miles the opposite direction, and now is somehow in New Jersey. Kaelyn (14:59): And so if you're, you know, even if you're just writing a, you know, a fiction story that is like, again, I'll use New York as an example, set in New York city and you say, "Oh yes, my, um, character lives all the way out in, um, you know, Flushings Queens in a giant 200 story, you know, whatever building," okay, well, that's not a thing that exists. If they're going to, you know, have certain places and settings and expectations of stuff that they should be doing based on that character, you need to be familiar with and you need to research these things. Rekka (15:36): Yeah. Your New York character is not going to hop in the car and go to the grocery store. Kaelyn (15:41): And this is ridiculous, but also like, just get out of map and look up the subway stations. If you're going to make it, like, if you're going to be specific, like, Oh, they got on the 1 Train and went to Queens. No, they'd didn't. The 1 Train doesn't go to Queens. If you're not sure, just say they got on the subway. Rekka (15:58): They definitely have maps of New York that you can reference. Kaelyn (16:04): Yes. Rekka (16:04): I think there's a danger of writing what you looked up, as opposed to writing what you know and understand. Kaelyn (16:14): If you remember, uh, you know, quite a few episodes back, we talked to Antoine Bandele was a, an episode about creating maps for your book. And I mentioned to him that I live in Astoria, Queens and he said, "Oh my God, I was just there. Uh, I needed to come and do research." And I said, "what do you need to do research on in Astoria?" He said, "I'm writing something set in New York. And one of the characters is Brazilian." And I said, "ah, and there is a small microcosm of Brazilian people in Astoria." And I mean, it's not even, you know, like, uh, Chinatown kind of concentration, but there is a small concentration of, uh, Brazilian shops and stores and restaurants and stuff. And he came out and had a look around because sometimes you just got to get out there and see it. Rekka (16:58): I mean, like, you will never understand, from a Wikipedia page, what it's like to walk through a place. And things are getting a little bit better with uh, Street View. Kaelyn (17:09): Uh, Google Maps can be a big help with. All of this is to say, "Oh, so what you're telling me, I should just write about my, you know, town that I grew up in, in Pennsylvania and nothing else?" No, absolutely not. I mean, but you also don't have to travel anywhere, but just be aware of, and try to do as much research on everything as you can, to get a level of authenticity there. Um, in this case, you know, you may not be capable of writing what you know, because you don't know what it's like to be in a particular place. Rekka (17:41): Yeah. Like don't write about rural Pennsylvania, if you are from Nebraska and you've never been to Pennsylvania and you don't feel like anything up about it. Kaelyn (17:50): Especially if you live in rural Nebraska, because then you could just write it there. Rekka (17:55): If you're writing a small town, why not pick the small town that you know, or at least a stand-in that's based on the town you know. Because then you're less likely to get the details wrong. So if you're writing about Grant's Pass, Oregon, but you've never been there and you're from New Jersey, do you honestly know what it feels like to be in Grant's Pass, Oregon, maybe write about your small town in New Jersey or, you know, put a little effort into it until you do know it and then you can write it. Kaelyn (18:27): Yeah. So, and this is, you know, we're still right now in the realm of things that actually exist in the world. They are, that's a lot easier to decide what you do and do not know. Um, once we get into the realm, Rekka and I operate in, science fiction and fantasy, where you're having to invent things, I think people get the, "well, it doesn't matter what the research is. I'm just going to make up whatever, whatever I want." Yes. However, your world and your characters still need to abide by rules. And unless you want to create an entire new set of rules from everything from biology to have gravity works, then presumably you're going to be carrying over some of our real life applications of this into the book. Rekka (19:17): What do you say to me, who does write science fiction on planets that, you know, from which the characters have never heard of Earth? Like, do I get to break every rule? Kaelyn (19:30): No, of course not. Rekka (19:32): Which rules do I get to break? Please, I'm asking. Kaelyn (19:37): You get to break whatever rules you want, Rekka. You know that. Just you though, not everyone else. Just you. Rekka (19:43): Give the qualifier because people are going to be confused. Kaelyn (19:45): Yeah. The genuine answer is it depends. Because it also depends on how much work you want to be put into the book of explaining why this rule doesn't exist in this world. And genre is going to matter a lot here, hard military SciFi, the expectation there is that we're adhering to the basic tenants of physics as we understand them on earth right now. Fantasy, I think a lot of times, doesn't get too bogged down in this, unless it has a reason to. Everywhere you go, the gravity is the same. The air is presumably breathable, unless it's not for a specific reason. Um, science fiction has a little bit more to make up for there, you know, because we're setting it in like, yeah, it's, it's fake in terms of, you know, in, in the sense that the author has made something up. But you know, what if something's set on Alpha Centauri? Like, we do know that Alpha Centauri is a real place. And while we don't know the exact conditions there or what, you know, for certain is orbiting it, we can make some speculations. Now you can, you know, of course, write in "everything we knew was completely wrong!" So I think the way you've got to sort of approach this and we're going to, we're going to talk large scale and then we're gonna narrow down from here. Okay. What are you keeping? What are you getting rid of? Kaelyn (21:08): Always start from a position of everything that is true on earth and physics as we understand them on Earth, I can apply across the board here. Your reader is going to start from that understanding unless you tell them otherwise. Rekka (21:24): Their default is everything they think they know. Kaelyn (21:26): Yes. New Speaker (21:26): Which you can't control if they're wrong. But whatever they think they know, that's what they're going to apply as the default understanding. So if you're going to break a rule, redefine it as early as you possibly can to avoid confusion. Kaelyn (21:43): Yes. So if you're getting to the point where you have to start explaining things that, you know, we're, we're beyond what I think the average reader is going to understand, you've got to decide, "am I going to make something up or am I going to do the research and explain this within the context of what we understand in terms of, you know, physics and biology now?" So all this research I'm talking about, how do you do this? Well, there's no good answer to that. And sometimes the best way is to hope, you know somebody who knows a lot about this stuff. Rekka (22:20): Sometimes, um, I would say, wait until you learn something that excites you, and use that as the opportunity to dig deeper into that subject and research. And you don't know what you don't know. It's hard to even research something that you're completely unfamiliar with because you don't know the right keywords to even type in. Kaelyn (22:44): So a really good example of this is Andy Weir's book, The Martian. Andy Weir is very lucky because he is the son of a particle physicist and an electrical engineer. There's all of these physics components that come in. So we've got mechanical and electrical engineering, biology, physics, computer science, all wrapped up in this. Andy Weir is not a, not proficient in every single one of those things. He had to do a lot of research and talk to a lot of people. And he wrote in a scenario that technically doesn't exist. Because we don't know how all of this would really go on Mars, but we can speculate. Rekka (23:24): Yeah. And he studied orbital mechanics, astronomy, and like the history of space flight in order to make this as well-founded a story as he could. Kaelyn (23:35): So that's an excellent example of science fiction grounded in reality, even when these things don't actually exist and we're still going, "well, maybe on Mars, this is what it would be like." But it goes to show you what comes with this kind of hard work. Anyway, The Martian is an excellent movie, excellent book. Um, and it is an excellent example of how far good research can get you. Whether, you know, it's The Martian or Harry Potter or Ender's Game or something. All of these things have fantastical elements to them, but there's ways to rationalize them and to make it seem like something that could be feasible because you've established that's what this is. But you're not writing what you know. Rekka (24:20): Yeah. Kaelyn (24:21): You're learning. Rekka (24:21): Yeah. You're learning in order to better write a more convincing scenario. Kaelyn (24:26): Yes. In some cases the, you know, write what you know is you've got to come up with something and teach it to yourself. Rekka (24:35): Yeah. And sometimes you have to seek out other people who can tell you what you need to know that you don't know. Kaelyn (24:39): Yeah. So let's talk about that a little bit. Let's say, um, you're writing something where there's a lot of biology involved for whatever reason. Human, alien, or otherwise. So what are you going to do here? Well, there's so much information on the internet and, you know, first of all, establishing what reputable sources are is very important, but you know, the American College of Physicians, uh, the Mayo Clinic, a lot of, you know, hospitals and research facilities, they have a lot of information online about these things. Um, the other really interesting thing is, uh, YouTube, there is a lot of interesting videos out there about "here's how this functions" and they're made by, you know, doctors, scientists, and reputable people. There's a lot of really good how-to videos out there. There's so much information out there. I think two of the biggest areas that, um, you know, where it's like writing what you don't know and not doing a great job of it, is probably, um, law related things and medical related things. Rekka (25:50): Yeah. And there are doctors who have written books to help you because they're sick of seeing you do it wrong. Kaelyn (25:54): Yeah. I remember a panel I went to at the, uh, Nebula Conference about death building. One of the panelists is an emergency room doctor. And you know, they're talking about there's tolerances that the human body is allowed to sustain in writing that in actuality would never happen. One of the examples he gave was like, Sean Bean's character in the first Lord Of The Rings movie, who's got like a thousand arrows sticking out of him, but he's still standing up and swinging a sword. Rekka (26:21): To be fair. He does die eventually. Kaelyn (26:24): He does. But as this doctor pointed out, he was like, "yeah, one arrow to the stomach is enough to make most people not be able to stand up." Rekka (26:32): But also he's Sean Bean. So that's what killed him. Not all those arrows. Kaelyn (26:37): That's very true. You know? So there's, there's a certain degree we're willing to accept there just because it's know it's stakes, it's intensity, it's, you know, trying to, you know, scare the reader a little bit. Um, if everybody in fantasy books and science fiction, really, any books got, uh, incapacitated the way they should from, you know, a basic— Rekka (27:02): "The way they should." Sorry, I'm getting punchy. We're super fragile. Who made us so brittle? So, so delicate. Kaelyn (27:12): Blow to the right, you know, area. Like I always laugh when I'm watching and there are these sword fights and like the people are whack at each other in the legs. And I'm like, "that's a shredded ACL." "That's that meniscus is gone." "That person doesn't have a knee anymore." Anyway, there's a level of tolerance we're allowed to have there, but that said, if somebody is getting cut in half and they survive, they'd better be living in a world where getting cut in half is part of the reproductive cycle or something, you know, they just become two smaller versions of, of that person. Although I will say in the same panel, I was listening to the, the doctors presenting, uh, give us an example of a guy who came into his ER in two different ambulances and survived. So... Rekka (27:59): On that note! Kaelyn (28:00): On that note, Rekka (28:02): What do you know, anyway? What does anybody really know? Kaelyn (28:06): You know, look, we've, we've all heard the stories of the fantastical and the extraordinary. But to kind of, you know, circle back to our original thoughts here, you know, of writing what you know, and writing what you don't know: research is very important. Um, limiting yourself to writing what you know—unless, you know, I dunno, maybe you've had a really interesting life. Maybe you've had a lot of things happen to you. You've done a lot of stuff. Um, then that's great. But you know, the other end of it is if you haven't, you're, and you want to write an interesting, compelling story, especially if it involves like fairies and leprechauns. I'm kidding. Those are real obviously. Rekka (28:48): Obviously. Kaelyn (28:49): You're going to have to do some research and you're going to have to come up with your world rules and parameters. And in the course of the research, identify what you decide you're going to keep versus what you're going to change. And then you have to explain that you're changing it. Rekka (29:07): I always come back to: the more detail you feel like you have to include to justify the things you're doing, possibly the more research you need to do so that you truly understand it. Kaelyn (29:20): I'll give you another really good example of this. And this is actually a nonfiction book that falls really interestingly into the write what you know category. John Krakauer's book Into Thin Air. It's about the 1996 Everest disaster. He got, according to his account, talked into coming on this Everest expedition. And it just so happened that while he was there, and this was in the May climbing season, this massive blizzard storm or what have you, struck the people as they were all trying to come back down the mountain and eight people died. This story, it's harrowing, it's terrifying, it's heartbreaking. And it makes you never want to go anywhere near Mount Everest. Rekka (30:11): I don't even want to read the book. Kaelyn (30:15): But the reason he went on this expedition was he was going to write an article about it for the magazine he worked for. And now he's writing a book about this terrible disaster that took place. So he's coming from a place where he's actually very knowledgeable about, mountaineering and know, you know, knew all of these people and knew how everything was supposed to go. And now he's got to do a bunch of research and collect information and accounts from different groups and stuff about why what happened happened. And he puts together a really interesting case and story about all different aspects of the, uh, culture surrounding, like, people trying to summit Mount Everest and, you know, the situation of like people who really don't have any business trying to climb Mount Everest and just paying a lot of money to guides to get them up there. There's all of this speculation that, um, one of the things that happened that made this so terrible apart from, you know, a blizzard on Mount Everest, was some kind of a pressure system came through and dropped the oxygen to nothing. So that's a nonfiction book where, you know, this guy was writing what—he set out to write what he knew, and then ended up having to incorporate a whole bunch of stuff he didn't know as well. Rekka (31:26): That is a very literal write what you know. We've already covered the micro writing, what, you know, in a very personal, um, tangible, you know, physical and mental sensation sort of way, to add realism to a scene. And that can create tension and, and, um, drama, uh, especially in like a, um, you know, third person limited perspective or first person perspective. But, uh, we've also covered researching to learn what you don't know so then you can write it. And we've covered writing what you don't know, because nobody knows it. Kaelyn (32:15): One thing I'd like to just point out quickly before we wrap up here, there is a difference between writing what you know, writing what you don't know, and writing something that isn't yours to tell. Rekka (32:28): Yeah. And we didn't go into that this time on purpose because that's a whole topic. Kaelyn (32:33): You know, saying that there's ways to degree search and gain experience is not the same as saying, "I am a straight white cis person. I am going to write about a gay black trans person, and I will just do a lot of research and that makes it okay." It doesn't. Don't do that. That is not your story to tell. Rekka (32:52): That is... Writing... Don't write what you think you know. Don't write what you think is hot, and just assuming you know enough about it. And when I say hot, I mean, popular, uh, will attract attention. Kaelyn (33:10): There's always ways to include diverse characters into your writing. But anytime, you know, you're really going like, "wow, I don't know anything about the type of character, this person, that I'm writing here." That's probably a good point to take a step back and say, "is this something I should be writing?" Rekka (33:33): If this person is nothing like me? Kaelyn (33:35): Yes. Rekka (33:36): In what ways are they not like me? And are those ways that I should not be attempting to explain to other people? Kaelyn (33:43): You know, like I said, this is a whole other episode. We're not going to, you know, go into this, but it was worth making the statement that it's one thing to research places, locations, history, physics, medical sciences, researching people, outside of historic context, to use as a character is probably a place where you should take a step back and decide whether or not that's something you should be writing. Rekka (34:12): Um, if you are looking for a resource on knowing when it's okay, you know, cause casual representation in books is good. So look for a series of lectures and of courses called Writing The Other. That's a fantastic resource. They cover all sorts of different marginalized identities. And, um, the courses are paid and they should be because this is someone's time and effort to educate you. Uh, so that would be the best resource I could think of. And if we were ever going to cover that topic, I would be bringing someone on from the Writing The Other courses in order to talk about it. So honestly, I'm just going to refer you to them. Kaelyn (34:53): For all of this, you know, saying like there's nothing stopping you from doing research and trying to learn and build here. There is a line where research does not matter anymore at that point. Rekka (35:04): Right. It's just not appropriate. Kaelyn (35:06): This will not ever be a situation in which you're writing what you know. Rekka (35:10): Yeah, exactly. Kaelyn (35:11): So, um, you know, on that note, that's, it, it turned into a little bit, I would call this writing what you know versus researching what you don't. Rekka (35:19): Right. Versus keeping your hands off what someone else knows. Kaelyn (35:23): Yeah, exactly. Um, look, you know, I have definitely, um, you know, in the course of my life, like when I was in grad school, I had people, you know, who would say like, "Hey, I, can you tell me about this historic thing? I need it as a point of reference for something," um, a lot of people who in specialized, you know, areas, professions, or educations or stuff are frequently very happy to talk to you about them. You know, this isn't to say that you can just inflict yourself on anyone and say, "tell me all about the human nervous system. I need to know about every ending." Rekka (35:57): Ideally you have something to offer them. Whether it's money or your own experience in a way that will help them. Kaelyn (36:04): Yeah. Or just let me take out to dinner. And if I can just bounce a few things off of you, if this is a friend of yours or something like that. Um, when we're able to go out to dinner again, don't take anyone out to dinner, right now. Rekka (36:14): Yeah. No, that's bad. Be a good person. Keep people protected. Kaelyn (36:18): Yes. So, you know, don't be afraid to try to reach out to actual human resources that are experts or have more knowledge about these things than you do. It never ceases to amaze me the hobbies that my friends have that mean they know all of this stuff that I can't believe they know a lot about. But yeah. I think, uh, I think that's a good place to end. Rekka (36:45): Okay, well, if we haven't hit all the marks or you still have questions, you can find us on Twitter and Instagram at @WMBcast, you can find us on Patreon at Patreon.com/WMBcast. Or you can even leave your question in a rating or review on Apple Podcasts. We would love if you would do that over there, because we want more reviews so that more people can find us and ask us more questions. So hopefully that answered some of your questions about this nebulous, strange advice that you hear so often. Kaelyn (37:17): It's just the worst advice. Rekka (37:20): I don't think that it's completely without merit. It's just not good without explanation. So, um, with context, it's, uh, a fun thing to consider and something to keep in mind. All right, we're done. I swear. We're done talking about it. We will talk to you in two weeks, hope you all have a lovely time. Stay safe, wear a mask, avoid other humans.

Criticism: The Gateway To Marriage Misery In marriage, one thing is a given: At some point you and your partner are going to disagree on something.  It might be something small like where to eat for dinner on your next date night, what brand of toothpaste to buy, or which Netflix show to stream next. Or it could be something big like how to manage your finances, how you’re going to spend your holidays, or how often you’d like to have sex and who should initiate. It’s impossible for two people with completely different upbringings, backgrounds, and family dynamics to agree on everything in life all the time. Learning to navigate these moments of stress and conflict is what separates the masters of marriage from the disasters. As a matter of fact, there’s been a HUGE amount of research done on marital conflict, and researchers have found that how you handle these disagreements - both big and small - has the biggest impact on whether or not you stay together as a couple… and if you stay together, whether or not you have a happy marriage, or a miserable one. Dr. John Gottman, whose work we’ll be referencing throughout this challenge, has built a mathematical model that can predict divorce with a 91% accuracy, and one of the key factors in his model is how a couple deals with conflict. This is a big deal!  My goal over the next few weeks is to introduce you to the Four Horsemen of the Marriage Apocalypse. I’ll show you how these horsemen will derail and destroy your marriage… and how to deal with them when they inevitably show up. (Because they ABSOLUTELY will.) Your Primary Objective over the next 4 weeks is to identify at least one bad conflict habit that you bring to the relationship, and create an action plan to change that habit. The Four Horsemen are the things Dr. Gottman looks for when he’s trying to predict divorce. No relationship is immune to the Four Horsemen. So, if I talk about one and you’re like, “Hey… that’s me… I do that.” there’s no reason to freak out.  My goal here is to help you identify, and start to change these habits to get your marriage headed in the right direction. Today, we are going to start with the first horseman: Criticism Have you ever experienced something like this... You're having a great time with your partner. You’re laughing and getting along. You’re feeling good… and then, out of the blue, you feel criticized. When something like this happens, do you shut down?  Do you get angry?  Do you immediately turn off and change your behavior?  Do you get defensive? Criticism is a super sneaky relationship killer. Often it starts off with good intentions. “I’m just going to let my partner know how they could improve so our relationship can be better!”  We expect our partner to show up to a conversation with a notepad and say, “Wow, thanks for letting me know I’m defective in all these ways! I’m going to go work on this. Maybe next week we can get together and you can tell me more things about me that make you miserable?” Criticism kills your partner’s most attractive qualities. It shuts down their ability to feel confident, passionate, authentic, and emotionally available.  These are the exact qualities that cause people to fall in love, and stay in love! Criticism is different than complaining. Complaining is when you bring up a behavior or action that bothers you. Criticism is when you attack or blame someone’s character. Complaining stays specific, sticking to isolated incidents... Criticism is almost always based on generalizations based on specific incidents… using words like “you always” or “you never”. Complaining is an attempt to improve the relationship. Criticism tears your partner down and blames them for your problems. Here’s an example: Giving Criticism vs. Complaints Suzy and Kent have been married for a few years. Kent and Suzy both hate washing dishes, so they tend to pile up. Kent decided it was his turn to wash dishes and spent 45 minutes cleaning the pile. Just as he finished, Suzy walked into the kitchen and poured herself a cup of milk and made herself a plate of cookies to munch on while they watched a show on Netflix. When she was done, she left the dirty plate and cup on the coffee table. Kent was majorly irritated. He said, “What the heck?! You always do this! You’re so disrespectful. You know I just spent the last 30 minutes cleaning all the dishes, and then you go make more dishes dirty and just leave them out? You’re so freaking disrespectful!” Can you spot the criticism? Kent attacked Suzy’s character using statements that were a direct attack on Suzy and her character rather than the behavior he wanted her to change. Did you also notice the harsh startup that we talked about yesterday? If you did, good job! Now here’s an example of a different way Ken could have handled this situation. “Hey Babe, I just worked really hard to clean the kitchen. It would mean a lot to me if you would clean up your dishes before bed.” See the difference? First, there’s a soft startup. Then you see Ken’s polite request for her to correct a behavior without making it about her being defective as a human being. By avoiding giving criticism, you keep your partner open and responsive to the qualities that allow for attraction, connection, and love to flourish and thrive. Receiving A Complaint Don’t forget, the door swings both ways. Sometimes you’ll be bringing up the complaints you have about your partner’s behavior in the relationship… but sometimes your partner is going to have complaints about your behavior! Not being able to handle your partner making a complaint against your behavior is just as damaging to your relationship as delivering a criticism. If your partner delivers a complaint, take ownership and be responsible for whatever you can regarding your behavior. When you don't agree with your partner, it's easy to diminish your partner. You can think or say things like, “You don’t know what you’re talking about.” Or, “What’s the matter with you? If that bothers you, you’re the problem, not me.” Another common reaction is to internalize the complaint and make it personal when it’s not. “I am a terrible wife. I just can’t do anything right, I guess. I’m such a failure.” We become self-critical. We turn our partner’s genuine attempt to connect with us and improve the relationship into a negative and damaging experience. Suddenly your partner has to move their focus from the behavior to trying to make you feel better about yourself. Instead of shifting the focus to yourself by becoming self-critical, or to your partner by dismissing or belittling their perspective when they offer a complaint, keep the focus on the issue at hand. Suzy from the example above could say something like, “Hey, thanks for the reminder! I’ll put my cup and plate away. I really appreciate that you did the dishes. You’re awesome.” See how easy that was? Now you can go to bed in a good mood and maybe even have some sexy times! Apply The Lesson Your Application Exercise for today is to Learn to complain without blaming. We’ll provide a few examples of very common criticisms… Take the time to re-write them as complaints instead. Don’t use words like “You always…” or “You never…” Focus on critiquing the behavior, not your partner or their character. If your partner begins to get defensive, one of the best things you can do is calmly notice it and let them know with kindness that you’re not trying to be critical of them.

This week Alyssa sits down with friend and colleague, Jennifer Bristol, LCSW, to discuss the mind-body connection and the idea that addressing our emotions can help to pacify chronic pain.  Support the Light After Trauma Podcast Book's discussed: Healing Back Pain by Dr. John E. Sarno The Mindbody Prescription by Dr. John E. Sarno Jennifer's website   Alyssa Scolari: [00:00:23] Hi, everybody. You know what time it is. Welcome to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I am your host, Alyssa Scolari and we have here with us today. My dear friend, Jennifer Bristol, LCSW. So I met Jen. I'm just going to give a personal bio for her. I met her as a result of COVID. So while I, of course would have never wanted COVID to happen. And horrible things have happened. One of the wonderful things that has come out of COVID is the support group, or I guess it would be like a peer supervision group that we are in together on Sundays. I met her through there and I have really watched Jennifer make incredible changes in her life. In the last year when I met her, she was working for another company. And you were working in like geriatric care, right. A social worker for... Jennifer Bristol: [00:01:56] Yeah, hospice actually. Alyssa Scolari: [00:01:58] Okay. So yes. So when I met her, she was working for hospice and over the course of the year, she has gotten married. Is it okay if I say... Jennifer Bristol: [00:02:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Alyssa Scolari: [00:02:10] So she has gotten married. Had a beautiful wedding, even in a pandemic ,safely, of course. And she works for herself now at Embracing Stages, she is a therapist working with people ages 18 and up. Correct. Jennifer Bristol: [00:02:31] Correct? Yeah. Alyssa Scolari: [00:02:32] So without further ado, I'm going to turn it over to Jen. Hi Jen. Thank you for coming on the show. I know you have a lot going on and it has been a year of changes for you. Jennifer Bristol: [00:02:46] Yes, a lot of changes, but wonderful ones. All good, except for COVID. Other than that, all good. Alyssa Scolari: [00:02:54] Right, except for COVID. But in terms of your career, you have just been thriving and it has been such a joy to watch because you are, you're so good at what you do. Jen to the listeners out there, and I will link her website. It's embracingstages.com. I'll link it on the show notes for everybody. Jen's a phenomenal therapist. So one of the ways in which Jen helped me is early on in the pandemic. So it has to be probably like a year ago at this point, because I think we started the group in March of last year. So it had to be maybe like 10 months ago or so Jen started talking about back pain. And how she healed her back pain. And I am somebody who has had physical symptoms out the wazoo, my entire life. I'm always like my back hurts. My knees hurt. My hips hurt. My neck hurts. And she recommended this book by John E Sarno called "Healing Back Pain." And I was like, what the hell. So I ordered it on Amazon. And I read it and I was like, Oh my God, we have to talk about this. So I am having Jen on today to talk about back pain and the book. And so could you talk a little bit about how did you even stumble on this book? Jennifer Bristol: [00:04:31] So actually through my own experiences and my own complaining of physical symptoms, it was actually close friends of my husband and I they're a close couple of friends and she recommended the book to me because of her own experiences and how much it helped her. She recommended it to me and I read it and that was it. My complete way of thinking changed everything. It's like a whole new world open. Alyssa Scolari: [00:05:05] Yes. And so as a disclaimer, let us say that Jen and I are not doctors. We are not, not, not doctors. So if you are listening to this podcast for medical advice, please hit the stop button and call your primary care physician. We are simply two people who have experienced kind of the same effects and the same results with our pain after reading this book. So can you give like a brief kind of synopsis on like what John talks about in the book? Cause I think he's a chiropractor, right? Jennifer Bristol: [00:05:47] I want to say physical therapists. Alyssa Scolari: [00:05:50] You're right. Physical therapist. Yep. Jennifer Bristol: [00:05:52] Yeah. And so what was the question, that synopsis of the book or TMS or kind of in general. Alyssa Scolari: [00:06:00] Yeah. So can you introduce like, cause he introduces the concept of TMS. So can you talk a little bit about that? Jennifer Bristol: [00:06:06] Yeah. So for TMS, because TMS is actually, there's a therapy of TMS, but the TMS we're talking about is Tension Myositis Syndrome, where basically it's an emotional state, a psychological state that can trigger, in Dr. Sarno's work ,and trigger the autonomous nervous system. And when that's triggered, it causes a mild oxygen deprivation to different areas of the body. And when there is the oxygen deprivation, it causes physical pain in simple terms. Alyssa Scolari: [00:06:41] Yes. I think you put that actually way more simply than I would've ever to but that, so yes, TMS is Dr. Sarno's ,after seeing so many patients and please order this book on Amazon, it is absolutely worth it. After seeing so many patients come to him with back pain in particular, he talks about. He started to think and be like, what is going on here? And then from there came TMS, which is this idea that people, because it's too painful to feel their feelings, whether it's emotional distress as a result of trauma of grief, whatever it may be, they store those feelings in their body and where those feelings are stored causes. Like you said, oxygen deprivation, which causes acute pain. Jennifer Bristol: [00:07:36] Well, and chronic pain. Alyssa Scolari: [00:07:38] Yes. Jennifer Bristol: [00:07:39] And I think the thing that is always fascinating to me is that. So many individuals who have chronic pain say, you know, it's kind of like a hamster wheel of going to physical therapy and maxing out all your physical therapy sessions for the year, or at least that was for me, but then also going to out of network, in network, searching constantly for that physical result of what it can be in that physical treatment. But when it comes to something, that's a cue. Now, everyone knows. If you're anxious, then you get butterflies in your stomach or you have to run to the bathroom. Or if you feel sad and you just are fatigued and you can't get out of bed because of how sad you are. But when it comes to something that's chronic, like back pain or GI issues that can't be from emotions, that can't be anything that's repressed. Alyssa Scolari: [00:08:32] Heaven forbid. Jennifer Bristol: [00:08:34] Yeah, it has to be something physical. And so it still to this day fascinates me how the mind can kind of separate, like it's okay for acute things, but not for chronic. Alyssa Scolari: [00:08:47] Yeah. Yeah. And really what Dr. Sarno did is he brought the two together and I feel like is one of the forefront doctors that really began looking at this mind, body connection that like, okay, people who are having chronic back pain, for example, X-ray after x-ray and like you said doctor after doctor, they're not getting better, they're not getting answers or maybe they're getting temporary relief. And then what would happen is the pain would pop up somewhere else. Right? So now my back doesn't hurt anymore, but I suddenly, I have this like shoulder pain that I can't quite kick and what he was doing as the listeners out there, if you read this book, as you would read through the book is he would prescribe people to go to therapy. Jennifer Bristol: [00:09:38] Yeah to therapy or to journal. Absolutely. To get in touch with the repressed emotions. Alyssa Scolari: [00:09:46] To connect the mind to the body and to integrate the emotions with your physical functioning and people were noticing it was then that their pain was going away. And again, I want to reiterate Jen and I are not doctors. So if you are having back pain, please go see a doctor. But, we're here to share our stories about how freeing it was. I know it was so freeing for me to read that book and it truly healed my back pain. So I guess I'll ask you, did you, and I think I know the answer to this, but you had back pain, right? Is that the chronic pain? Jennifer Bristol: [00:10:33] So I've had a few different pains, kind of like you, because if one is feeling better, the other pops up. So I've kind of had upper back pain my whole life, and then it became lower back pain and then GI issues and pain shooting down my leg to my knee. And so it's kind of been all over the place. Alyssa Scolari: [00:11:00] And what was the process like for you when you were reading this book? Like, because I, I don't know if it was different than it was for me. Did you read this book? And then all of a sudden it went away? Jennifer Bristol: [00:11:14] So, yes. No, it didn't completely go away, but I would say there was a percentage that was lifted. As I read it and I went along and it really was almost like you could feel a part of the mind opening up to, Oh my God, there's this whole new concept. And it could really be some, like, I don't need to be on this hamster wheel anymore of trying to go to physical therapy or acupuncture or massage therapy. And so as I was reading it, yes, a lot of my pain did heal, but it wasn't a hundred percent. There was more work and exploration that needed to be done as I read. And after I read. Alyssa Scolari: [00:12:01] Yes. And it's a lot of having to feel the feelings that you've been suppressing, which doesn't happen in an instant. And when we talk about pain, I know that you said it was chronic pain, but can you talk about the ways in which it perhaps like limited your ability to function? Jennifer Bristol: [00:12:23] Absolutely. So with my lower back pain, I couldn't wear heels like high heels for more than like 10 minutes without having my back, starting to hurt. If I would go for a walk or I would be cleaning or cooking, I could stand or walk for maybe like 10 or 15 minutes and then I'd have to stop and stretch and then continue. I'll say it on this podcast, sex with my partner, it was like so many different things. And when we look at repressed emotions, I mean, intimacy too is something that people, a lot of times, people don't dive into and there's intimacy issues and relationships. And I love working through that with my clients as to what does that look like. Whether you're single or you have a partner ,intimacy and sex can be explored. And so really every part of my life was affected because if I couldn't stand for more than 10, 15 minutes, what was I supposed to do? Sit down all the time. And then I'm sitting in a chair and I have to constantly fidget because no position is comfortable. And then when it comes to the GI stuff, I mean, you would have thought I was gluten intolerant, dairy intolerant. I would have like four or five different sugar substitutes in my house and thought that all of that was the cause for it. And now today I could scarf down a whole pint of Ben and Jerry's and not have any stomach problems. Alyssa Scolari: [00:13:51] And be fine. Yes. I like that you touched on that, that it extends to GI issues as well. Maybe not necessarily in the book. Jennifer Bristol: [00:14:00] In the other book he mentioned it. "The Mindbody Prescription." Yeah. Alyssa Scolari: [00:14:04] Okay. Okay. I didn't read the other book, but yes. So it touches on like GI issues as well: gastrointestinal, like Irritable Bowel Syndrome that people have food intolerances, all of these things. And we're not saying for sure, but oftentimes they are related to your inability to process and regulate really difficult emotions. Jennifer Bristol: [00:14:35] Yeah, absolutely. I mean even, and cause I know this is a trauma podcast and when you look at victims of sexual abuse and when you look at sexual abuse survivors, a lot of times there's pelvic pain and genital pain and that is very common. And so why can that happen? But not other chronic pain. Alyssa Scolari: [00:15:03] Yeah. And it sounds like what you're talking about from your experience is it's almost like you feel even in like your twenties, that you're a hundred years old. Jennifer Bristol: [00:15:18] Oh, absolutely. I felt like I was a hundred years old. Yeah. Yes. Alyssa Scolari: [00:15:24] Yeah. And how old were you when your chronic pain started? Jennifer Bristol: [00:15:27] I'll be honest with my upper back. I have been going to a chiropractor since like middle school. Alyssa Scolari: [00:15:34] Okay. Yes. That's when it started for me as well, issues with my, it was not my back at first. It was my knees. My knees have hurt me my entire life and because of my eating disorder, I have been every weight and every size under the sun. And so weight never affected the pain in my knees, but from the time I was a little kid, I had this knee pain and I went to doctor after doctor some of the top docs in the nation for knees. And every doctor was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And then what would happen? They would send me to physical therapy. I would max out my physical therapy, just like you said for the year. And then my knees would stlll hurt. Jennifer Bristol: [00:16:28] Yeah. Alyssa Scolari: [00:16:30] And at 14 years old, my friends used to actually make fun of me because I would emember being in middle school and like getting up with the lunch tray in the cafeteria. And I could barely, because they were benches that we would sit on, so I would have to like slide over and I would moan and groan and be like, Oh, Oh, as I got up and my friends were like, what the hell? Like are you 110. I was 14. I was in pain because I had no clue how to process any of the emotional pain. Jennifer Bristol: [00:17:12] Absolutely. You know, it's almost, when it comes to my upper back, it was really my lower back that brought me to Sarno because the upper back I had had it for so long since I was a kid, that it was almost just like a way of life at that point, having to crack my back. And this is even the coolest thing I used to have to crack my back all the time, all day long. I don't even do that anymore. It's like the muscles and the structure just loosened. But, it really was a way of life going to the chiropractor and going for massages and acupuncture. That was, it almost seemed normal to me. And so I didn't even view it as an issue that could be fixed. I just accepted it, that this was my life and this is something I was going to have to deal with. Alyssa Scolari: [00:18:05] Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that was the same for me, for my knee pain. It wasn't until my lower back pain came, I was in my, what am I 29 now? So I was in my early twenties, early to mid twenties and I was at the gym and I was, I mean doing the same workout, that I've done a thousand times and out of nowhere, I was doing kettlebell swings and. Everybody, of course who hears that as like, Oh my God, kettlebells are the worst for you. I know the point is back then, I was doing them regularly. I was the strongest I'd ever been in my life. And I wasn't kettlebell swinging, you know, 60 pounds. I was using a smaller sized kettlebell and my back suddenly locked up and I went down in the middle of the gym class. And I couldn't get up and I couldn't go to work. I couldn't drive. I went to doctor after doctor who told me you will never be able to work out again. You will never be able to lift. You will never be able to exercise. You're going to have a horrible time in pregnancy because you've destroyed your back. And I thought my life was over. Like I had just met the man that I'm now married to. And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. And I don't know. Did you have that too? Like a grieving process of just being like, there's something wrong with me, like permanently. Jennifer Bristol: [00:20:01] Yeah. Especially when it came to the lower back, I don't know what it is with the lower back, but because it's almost as if like you had your knees. I had my upper back, we weren't listening. Our body was giving us a signal and we didn't know, and the body will keep giving different and new, stronger signals until, and different pain and different symptoms, until you listen or you don't and you continue with it. And for me, the lower back pain, I was actually training for a fitness competition and my upper back hurt as it always did. So my husband went to give me a back massage and he's an average sized man. And when he went and like sat on me from behind to give me a back massage, I felt shooting pain, go from my lower back all the way down my left leg. And he barely put any pressure on me whatsoever. And I was told to not to work out. I mean, I, I still finished the fitness competition and training for it, but Alyssa Scolari: [00:21:08] Damn right you did. Jennifer Bristol: [00:21:08] l had ot pain, but talk about repressing emotions. I mean, that is someone who is running from their feelings, waking up at 4:30 every day to go work out when I'm having pain. But then also. It literally felt like crippling almost like not that my life was over, but there were times I was just like, how am I going to do this? Like, I did want to have a baby. And I was told not to run that pregnancy may cause pain, all of these things. And now I'm 20 weeks pregnant and I haven't had any back pain. Alyssa Scolari: [00:21:43] Yeah. Jennifer Bristol: [00:21:45] And even with my scans, I, and I was told I have a bulging disc. Two of my discs or vertebrae were starting to fuse together. Like I was told all of these things were going on with me. And, but hello, it's normal. As someone gets older, your spine is going to have degenerations. And again, I say this not as a doctor, but anyone can do the research and show that you take majority of adult people and you give them. You scan them and do imaging. There's going to be some sort of degeneration, but why does one person have pain and another person does't. Alyssa Scolari: [00:22:29] So my jaw dropped. When I heard you talk about like the degenerative discs, like the bulging discs, because I was told the same thing I was told: you've got one herniated, disc, two bulging discs, whatever else discs do in your back, mine did. And I was sobbing. I, this is so embarrassing. I remember being in the office when he told me when the doctor told me and I blacked out for a second. I started to sweat and shake and he had to give me part of his lunch. He gave me a granola bar from his lunch because I think he thought I had low blood sugar. God bless him. He was a very kind kind, but I was like, Oh my God, my back is broken and I'll never be okay again. And I was told like, if you're going to go to the gym, if you ever do a bicep curl, you need to be laying down. So it's no pressure on your back. And it was like, so stressful that, you know, my world, as I knew, it kind of stopped on a dime, it just came to a halt. And for the last couple of years, I have been nursing my back and constantly afraid of hurting it. And for so, so many times I would hurt my back again and I would try to work out and I would be like, Oh, well that hurts my back. Oh, this hurts my back. I had a lumbar support in the car. I mean, I have a lumbar support everywhere, everywhere I go. I have a lumbar support. And then I read this book and was like, wait a minute. I was like, son of a bitch. I know this is emotional I know that around the time when my back pain hit, it's like kind of crescendo, is before I started uncovering. It was like right before I started uncovering repressed memories of sexual abuse, I had met the man that I was going to marry. I was scared. Because that required intimacy and for sexual abuse survivors, intimacy was really difficult. So I was like, Oh great. I'm good. I know I'm gonna marry this guy. Now I'm going to have to friggin to have sex with him. What am I going to do? And all of those feelings just came to this crescendo in back pain. So then, you know, fast forward to COVID I meet you. I read this book and I'm sitting in bed and every line I'm like highlighting and I'm like, "David, read this." He's like "what?" I'm like, "there's nothing wrong with me." He's like, "I know." So, I mean, yeah, it's, it's debilitating. It's absolutely debilitating. Jennifer Bristol: [00:25:42] I don't know about if this happens with you, but I know with me, it's kind of like a key almost like I actually am happy for the fact that I have physical symptoms and in therapy, we could say Somatic Symptom Disorder. Alyssa Scolari: [00:25:58] Yep. Jennifer Bristol: [00:25:59] It doesn't cause me the distress that it once did, but if I'm not dealing with my emotions, those symptoms will come back. There will be times when, around the holidays or certain people in my life, I could have a phone call with them or they could say, or do something and you know, I have a busy schedule. I have a very full practice and it could be easy for me to hang up the phone and be like, Nope, not going to deal with this. We're just going to like carry on our day, see our patients or do house work, go food shopping. And then the back pain starts to creep in, or I'll be sitting there eating and I'll be like, why does my stomach hurt so much? What did I eat today? And then it's like, Oh my God, wait. Like, I'm not processing that I'm not dealing with how much that hurt me or how angry I am. And even with being pregnant, I believe in his "Healing Back Pain" book and correct me if I'm wrong. Cause I, I was also reading the other book too, but I think it's in "Healing Back Pain". He mentioned like do gooders and people pleasers than individuals who are overly self-critical. Yeah. If you just want to like be good and make a good impression, and you're more susceptible to chronic pain and being pregnant. I worked hard for this baby. Like there was lots of morning monitoring and doctor's appointments and tubes of blood being taken. And I could very easily be like, I need to just be grateful for this baby. I should just be happy and it's a miracle and that's it. But what happens is. It's terrifying to be a first time mom and I like sushi and I like going for bike rides and I just recently moved down the shore and thought I was going to be taking surf lessons. And none of those things are a possibility right now, but it's okay. I can both be grateful. And also be that kid who's kind of like this isn't fair. And I can have both emotions at the same time. I don't have to push away. I don't want to call them bad emotions because they're not bad. They're just feelings Alyssa Scolari: [00:28:24] The less comfortable emotions. Jennifer Bristol: [00:28:27] Exactly. And what happens is when you push those away, because I'm supposed to be grateful and I'm supposed to be happy to be pregnant. When you push the other stuff away for me, physical pain comes up. And so when I allow myself the beautiful freedom of being both grateful for my miracle baby, but also a little frustrated that I'm not supposed to eat sushi. I don't have physical pain. Alyssa Scolari: [00:28:53] Yes. Yes. When you allow it all, the good with the bad, is when your pain goes away. And it's kind of, like you said, I feel the same way that I'm almost grateful for it because my body is really communicating with me and I'm now more in tune with it than ever. And after I read that book, I really started to think about my back pain and the more that I processed it, the more my back pain went away and it will pop back up or sometimes it'll go to my shoulder and sometimes it goes to my hips, like, you know, my pelvic area, or comes out in the form of like stomach issues. Right? But if I'm able to identify what it is, and then I'm able to go, well, what am I not dealing with? Because like you said, it's so easy to get off the phone with somebody after being triggered and to be like, eh, I'm not going to deal with that. Or even as therapists, we sometimes have sessions with other people that are triggering. So it's so easy to be like, and then be in pain. But as soon as that pain comes, like, I know it's something I'm not dealing with. And I love that you said you're allowing yourself to be like, Hey, this kind of sucks. I can't have sushi. And I'm scared. Cause I'm about to be a mom. And I know I wanted this, I wanted my baby so badly, but I'm terrified instead of just being like, well, you should be grateful. Cause it was so hard. It's self-compassion. Jennifer Bristol: [00:30:48] Absolutely. And a lot of times people are taught to if they fall off their bike and they want to cry and they're like, no, if you get back up and I understand that, and I think there's definitely room for that as well. But if you're taught from a young age, don't have your emotions or don't have your feelings, no matter what those feelings may be, it can...and even in society, we kind of live in a society too where you see on Facebook and Instagram, that everything is happy and positive. It's almost like where is the room for the grief? Where is the room for the anger or the pain? And it is allowing and nurturing that part of you that has it because we all have it. We all have unconscious emotions and feelings. And that's why I truly believe in therapy because it is that safe place to explore all of them. Alyssa Scolari: [00:31:47] Therapy is the best. I mean, I know we're biased, but like the best, it's absolutely the best. So I wanted to ask you, like now, Right now that you have this knowledge of like the mind-body connection and knowing, right. What do you do differently or are there things that you do differently to try to prevent the onset of pain? Or does that just look like going to therapy? Because for me, I have found that sometimes it sneaks up on me where I won't even be aware that I'm kind of suppressing stuff. Jennifer Bristol: [00:32:33] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so journaling in the beginning of the pregnancy, there was a lot of anxiety. Because I have PCOS and all the things that I went through, there's a lot of anxiety about having the baby and keeping the baby and miscarriage and all of that. And physical symptoms were just happening all over my body. And for me, journaling and therapy, but definitely journaling is also what helps me. And I do know that if I have physical symptoms that are sneaking up, I also journal because that is a great place where it's just me and the journal. There's no fear of judgment. I, and I even tell my clients this, like after you journal, rip it up, rip it up it out. There is no need to hold to it. Yes. Yes. I love the burning. Alyssa Scolari: [00:33:25] Yes. Jennifer Bristol: [00:33:26] Of course got to be careful don't, want someone to start a fire. Safely. Yup. Burn things safely. And that can even be therapeutic too, whether you throw it out or, but just not to hold on to it because I don't ever want to go back and read those readings and then judge myself for reading them because it's not about judging or retaining. It's about getting in touch with what's going on underneath everything. So I would say journaling. But other than that, I have no physical limitations to my life minus the pregnancy ones, but I was told not to run before I was pregnant. I was going running. I could go horseback riding. I could, there's no physical limitations that I need to follow Alyssa Scolari: [00:34:13] Yes. Yes. It's so freeing. It's so freeing. Really, I mean to the listeners out there, if you struggle with chronic pain, if you're going to invest in a book, this is one of the books that you really need to invest in. It's again, "Healing Back Pain" by John E Sarno. You can find the book on Amazon. It's really not that expensive. And this is not an ad. We don't know him personally. I wish we did. What'd you say. Jennifer Bristol: [00:34:46] He's actually passed away. Alyssa Scolari: [00:34:48] Oh, I am horrible human being. Jennifer Bristol: [00:34:57] But Nicole Sachs, she's a therapist who practiced with him and she also has a book too called Journal Speak". And that's another good one. She still practices. Alyssa Scolari: [00:35:11] Well, yes, books are still available. May he rest in peace. Jennifer Bristol: [00:35:20] And "Mindbody Prescription" is another one of his books. Alyssa Scolari: [00:35:24] Oh, okay. See, thank God we have you here. Do you want to be the host of this podcast? Cause I'm failing royally today. Alright, so yeah. Read more into this stuff. If you struggle with chronic pain and you can't find answers, this might be the right answer for you. And I just want to thank you for coming on today. I know that you are growing a human and you have a lot going on. I know your practice is booming. If people want to find more about you, are you accepting new clients right now? Jennifer Bristol: [00:36:01] So I have two offices, one in Oradell and one in Middletown, my Oradell office, I'm not accepting new clients. For Middletown, I am. Not many, but I am. Alyssa Scolari: [00:36:13] I mean, yeah. Yeah. Well, if you would like to learn more about Jen, you can go to her website, which I will also link on the show notes, which is embracingstages.com. And I appreciate you chatting with me today. Jennifer Bristol: [00:36:27] Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening, everyone. For more information about today's episode and to sign up for the Light After Trauma newsletter, head over to my website at alyssascolari.com. The really great thing about being a part of this newsletter is that not only do you get weekly updates on new podcast episodes and blog posts, but you also get access to the private Facebook Com, as well as access to all sorts of insider tips, resources, and infographs that supplement what we talk about on the show. You also can connect with me and other trauma warriors. I'm super active on the Facebook community, and I look forward to talking with you.      

Are we in the end time, just prior to the Second Coming of Christ? Absolutely! I will provide many proofs we are in the end time and walk you through the prophesied events on today’s edition of End of the Age!

Do you think that Neelix respects people's privacy for his show? I don't. I bet he's doing some TMZ shit there, where he follows people into their quarters to get the "scoop". Absolutely airing everyone's secrets that they told him in confidence with bad "pseudonyms" that hide no one's identity, like Pom Taris, and Te'lanna Borres. Creating absolute chaos among the crew, people so mad at him all the time. I'm gonna be honest, I don't have a whole lot else I can think of for show notes and I'm just typing things at this point. I hope everyone is having a good day, make sure you drink some water! You definitely need some. Anyways enjoy the ep everyone! Covered this episode: Star Trek: Voyager S02E20 — Interview Adventure Time S03E17 — Thank You Adventure Time S03E18 — The New Frontier Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/SaB49kdGAz Follow us if you dare: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VoyentureTime/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/VoyentureTime --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/voyenturetime/message