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The dominant narrative in the U.S. about China’s relationship with the small northeastern neighbor is relentlessly one-sided. For decades, American officials have referenced Mao Zedong’s famous (though slightly mistranslated) description that North Korea and China are as close as “lips and teeth.” This perception has continued to recent times, such as when President Donald Trump insisted in July last year that if only China put a “heavy move” on the country, it could “end this nonsense once and for all!” But could it? What is the relationship, really, between China and North Korea, and how has it changed in recent years? Has China — or any country, for that matter — ever played a decisive role in North Korea foreign policy? To answer these questions, and bring context to current tensions in Northeast Asia, we welcome Ma Zhao, an associate professor of modern Chinese history and culture at Washington University in St. Louis, and John Delury, an associate professor of Chinese studies at Yonsei University in South Korea. Ma Zhao has written Runaway Wives, Urban Crimes, and Survival Tactics in Wartime Beijing, 1937-1949, and is working on a new book called Seditious Voices in Revolutionary China, 1950 to 1953. John has become a go-to citation for media seeking commentary in the most recent busy year of North Korea news, and co-authored (with Orville Schell, who we interviewed last week) an excellent book titled Wealth and Power: China's Long March to the Twenty-first Century. Please note that this episode was recorded on March 24, a few days before the world learned that Kim Jong-un had traveled to Beijing to meet with Xi Jinping. Recommendations: Ma Zhao: Two books: A Misunderstood Friendship: Mao Zedong, Kim Il-sung, and Sinonorth Korean Relations, 1949-1976, by Zhihua Shen and Yafeng Xia, and Seditious Voices in Revolutionary China, 1950 to 1953, Ma Zhao’s own book that is “in the pipeline.” John: Deng Xiaoping’s famous interview with the Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci, possibly the most frank and interesting interview that a leader of the Communist Party of China will ever give. Of particular note: Deng’s comments that “life tenure of cadres in leading posts” was an “institutional defect.” Kaiser: The really well organized and high-caliber Association for Asian Studies annual conference.
North Korea and China have a special relationship. The two countries are each other’s only military alliance partners, and China is commonly seen as shielding North Korea from the discontent of the international community. But while this relationship started as an ideological alliance and was forged in blood during the Korean War, it has seemingly become of a more pragmatic nature in recent years. In order to understand the history of Sino-North Korean relations better, we sat down with Professor John Delury. We talked about the premodern interactions between China and the Korean peninsula and the insights they hold for the situation today, about the distrust that has long characterized relations between China and North Korea, and about where the countries stand today with regards to each other. John Delury is Associate Professor of Chinese Studies at the Graduate School of International Studies of Yonsei University in Seoul. He completed his undergraduate and graduate studies in History at Yale University. In 2013, he published with Orville Schell the critically acclaimed Wealth and Power: China's Long March to the Twenty-first Century (Random House). Professor Delury’s writings have appeared in various publications including Foreign Affairs, 38 North and Asian Perspective.He is also active on Twitter.
Some estimate China will surpass the US to become the leading economic superpower by 2016. On the other hand, July 19th Paul Krugman wrote, "China is in big trouble. ...The country's whole way of doing business, the economic system that has driven three decades of incredible growth, has reached its limits. You could say that the Chinese model is about to hit its Great Wall..." This week's guests, ORVILLE SCHELL and JOHN DELURY, have both devoted a lot of time to studying and writing about China, including co-authoring the new book, WEALTH AND POWER: China's long March to the 21st Century. We'll explore China's current story on a number of fronts. Schell and Delury believe that China's character has become defined by its pursuit of national greatness to reverse generations of humiliation at the hands of its neighbors and the West. This quest for wealth, power and respect remains key to understanding many of China's actions today. We'll talk about China's history, character, economics, politics, and more. James Fallows, who's spent a lot of time in China, writes of their book, "I'd suggest you read it if you're at all interested in China. It's both historical and current, and it does a better job than most other books of answering a basic question the rest of the world naturally asks...What does China want?"
Through a series of absorbing portraits of iconic modern Chinese leaders and thinkers, two of today's foremost specialists on China provide a panoramic narrative of the nation's ascent from imperial doormat to global economic powerhouse in Wealth and Power: China's Long March to the Twenty-First Century (Random House). Author Orville Schell, author of many books, studied Chinese history at Harvard and Berkeley and has written for many publications, including The Atlantic, The New Yorker, Time, Foreign Affairs,The New York Review of Books, Harper's, and The New York Times. Formerly dean of the UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism, he is now the Arthur Ross Director of the Asia Society's Center on U.S.-China Relations in New York City. Schell is a member of the USC U.S.-China Institute's board of scholars. Discussants Geoffrey Cowan has long been an important force in education, communication, and public policy. Cowan became the first president of The Annenberg Foundation Trust at Sunnylands in 2010 and hosted the Xi Jinping/Barack Obama meeting there in June. Previously he was dean of the USC Annenberg School for a decade and headed the Voice of America during the Clinton administration. Cowan also heads the USC Annenberg Center on Communication Leadership and Policy. His co-authored play Top Secret has twice toured China. Clayton Dube has headed the USC U.S.-China Institute since it was established by USC President C.L. Nikias in 2006. Dube was trained as an economic historian, lived in China for five years and visited dozens of times. Dube's long been committed to informing public discussion about China and about the U.S.-China relationship. He oversees the institute's magazines and documentary efforts and writes the institute's Talking Points newsletter and earlier edited the academic journal Modern China.
Through a series of absorbing portraits of iconic modern Chinese leaders and thinkers, two of today's foremost specialists on China provide a panoramic narrative of the nation's ascent from imperial doormat to global economic powerhouse in Wealth and Power: China's Long March to the Twenty-First Century (Random House). Author Orville Schell, author of many books, studied Chinese history at Harvard and Berkeley and has written for many publications, including The Atlantic, The New Yorker, Time, Foreign Affairs,The New York Review of Books, Harper's, and The New York Times. Formerly dean of the UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism, he is now the Arthur Ross Director of the Asia Society's Center on U.S.-China Relations in New York City. Schell is a member of the USC U.S.-China Institute's board of scholars. Discussants Geoffrey Cowan has long been an important force in education, communication, and public policy. Cowan became the first president of The Annenberg Foundation Trust at Sunnylands in 2010 and hosted the Xi Jinping/Barack Obama meeting there in June. Previously he was dean of the USC Annenberg School for a decade and headed the Voice of America during the Clinton administration. Cowan also heads the USC Annenberg Center on Communication Leadership and Policy. His co-authored play Top Secret has twice toured China. Clayton Dube has headed the USC U.S.-China Institute since it was established by USC President C.L. Nikias in 2006. Dube was trained as an economic historian, lived in China for five years and visited dozens of times. Dube's long been committed to informing public discussion about China and about the U.S.-China relationship. He oversees the institute's magazines and documentary efforts and writes the institute's Talking Points newsletter and earlier edited the academic journal Modern China.