The Pact

Season finale. This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark Featuring: Eric Carter-Landin from True Consequences and Crimelines & Consequences Albert Perkins Resources:Religiosity and Attitudes Toward Lesbians and Gay Men: A Meta-Analysis by Bernard E. Whitley Jr.How Religiosity Shapes Rejection of Homosexuals Across the Globe by Dirk-Jan JanssenThe New York TimesThe Harvard Political ReviewThe National Institutes for HealthThe National Institues for HealthThe American Psychological AssociationThe Harvard University PressThe HillThe Trevor ProjectThe Human Rights CampaignThis is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothandMusic by: Adi Goldstein Featured music by: Frank Ocean

To better understand Lorenzo and Schweickert, their possible other crimes, and their MOs and victimology, Josh chats with clinical psychologist Dr. Scott (LA Not So Confidential) about killers who work in pairs, BDSM, Antisocial Personality Disorder, psychopathy, narcissism, and how homophobia made their ongoing crimes possible. Plus: The Warrior gene, behavioral drift, Kanye West, Anita Bryant, and more. This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark Featuring: Dr. Scott from the LA Not So Confidential podcast This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothandMusic by: Color Book, Yehezkel Raz, Adi Goldstein, Infinity Lab, and Yotam Agam Featured music by: Perfume Genius

At trial and at sentencing, Lorenzo's many surviving victims testified against him, including the impactful statements made by Albert Perkins, who Lorenzo kidnapped and assaulted in February of 2000. The testimony and eventual plea deals made by both Schweickert and Lorenzo would provide great insight into their MOs and victimology. But at what cost?Because by some accounts, investigators and the prosecution were as hard on the survivors as they were Lorenzo himself.This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh HallmarkResources:Fox 13 Tampa Bay: https://www.fox13news.com/news/nothing-behind-his-eyes-his-face-was-contorted-victim-of-steven-lorenzo-woke-up-panickedThe Tampa Bay Times: https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2006/01/28/defiant-lorenzo-gets-200-years/The Netflix documentary Victim/Suspect: https://www.netflix.com/title/81288561Featuring:Albert PerkinsThis is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothandMusic by: Circles, Field, Yehezkel Raz, and AhimsaFeatured music by: Rufus Wainwright

Scott Schweickert's house is searched, disturbing photos are found on Steven Lorenzo's computer, more Lorenzo assault victims come forward, someone confesses, and another gay man goes missing. This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark With additional research by: Kaz Featuring: • Dr. Scott from LA Not So Confidential • Drew Mackie from Gayest Episode Ever This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothandMusic by: Evolving Scapes, Grisly Bill, Light in the Shadow, Hynogogia, Yehezkel Raz, and Yotam Agam Featured music by: Chris Garneau

Steven Lorenzo's friend and accomplice is identified as Scott Schweickert. And the pair's history is revealed through AOL instant messages and a mutual friend. Tampa PD investigate multiple assaults within the Tampa gay community, leading to an arrest and a second search warrant. And the relationship between Steven and Scott gets complicated.This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark With additional research by: Kaz Audio editing by Darron Wood (The Defense Diaries podcast) This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothandResources include: • The Charlie Project • NAMUS • The Tampa Bay Times: Which one is the real Scott? • Newspapers.com • CNN.com• Equity Florida Action, IncMusic by: Yehezkel Rez, Circles, The Bows, Spiriturn, and Colour Book Featured music by: Owen Pallett

Steven Lorenzo comes to the forefront of Tampa PD's investigation into the disappearance of Jason Galehouse and the death of Michael Wachholtz. Lorenzo's criminal history leads to a sting operation that ends in a very haunting search of his home, and lists of some very important names. This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark With additional research by: Kaz Featuring: Jason Leroy (The Binge Movie Podcast) This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand Resources include: • The Charlie Project • NAMUS • Uncovered • The Tampa Bay Times • Newspapers.com • The Albuquerque Journal • Amnesty International Music by: Yehezkel Rez, Yotam Agam, Theatre of Delays, Grisly Bill, and Benjamin Esterlis Featured music by: Jacob Fossum

On December 22, 2003, two gay men were reported missing to Tampa PD. The investigations into their disappearances, would open a Pandora's Box that would force the police, the media, and society to examine how their actions and negligence led to some of Florida's most sinister crimes. This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. With additional research by: Kaz. Featuring: Eric Schmidt and Dr. Scott (LA Not So Confidential). This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothandResources include: • The Charlie Project • NAMUS • Uncovered • Clearwater Police Department • The Tampa Bay Times: 1 2 3Music by: Colour Book, Yehezkel Rez, Roniit, Raz Burg, Raz Burg, and Yotam Agam Featured music by: Josef Salvat

Catch up on all things Studio BOTH/AND for the month of February (and beyond).This month's news:• New tours and events • Unsafe Spaces update • The Karen & Ellen Letters update • True Crime Bullsh** update • New projects • Our Americana update • Studio BOTH/AND Launch Party follow-up in The Berkshires this October • What's happening on Patreon this month Links: • True Crime Podcast Festival, use promo code JOSH for 15% off • Studio BOTH/AND Patreon

Unsafe Spaces is an investigative, serialized true crime podcast that explores the crimes that take place in the places we're supposed to feel safest. In Season One: Tampa's Missing Men, I explore how two different missing persons cases, reported on the same day, opened a Pandora's Box of unreported assaults, cold missing persons cases, ignored rapes, and unsolved murders within Florida's gay community; and the two men who could be responsible for all of them. Not to mention cold cases of missing gay and murdered men in Georgia, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and beyond. Check out Unsafe Spaces: www.UnsafeSpacesPodcast.com

Josh is heading out on the road. Catch him at:The True Crime & Paranormal Festival in Austin, Texas (8/26-8/27)www.truecrimepodcastfestival.comA casual Happy Hour in Tampa, Florida (9/10)www.bothand.fyi/tourObsessed Fest in Dallas, Texas (10/20-10/22)www.obsessedfest.com& Coming Soon:A Studio BOTH/AND Launch Party in North Adams, Mass.

The finale. Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Research assistance by Becca Cline. Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, Whithe, and Stacxk.

If you enjoyed The Pact, check out host Josh Hallmark's other investigative deep dive into serial killer Israel Keyes: True Crime Bullsh**www.bothand.fyiwww.truecrimebullshit.comwww.patreon.com/studiobothand

An examination of the strange relationship and power dynamics between Kelly Cochran and Detective Ogden, reveals new patterns in Kelly's stories and behaviors. Plus, a cumulative overview of what we've learned about Kelly, helps construct an MO and timeline of her crimes.This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Research assistance by Becca Cline.Tip by Olivia.Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, and Odetta Hartman.

A look at how sexual abuse may have contributed to Kelly Cochran's life and crimes; and how it may play a role in deciphering her many stories.This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Research assistance by Becca Cline. Resources include: RAINN.org, Psychology Today, and Dr. Joni Johnston. Music by William Hellfire, Stacxk, Kyle Preston, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Josef van Wissem, and Chromatics.

An examination of the disparities surrounding the portrayals of men and women in crime, and how Kelly Cochran exploited them. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Research assistance by Becca Cline. Resources include: The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, NAMUS, The Charley Project, and Dr. Joni Johnston. Music by William Hellfire, LaBon, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, and Empress Of.

An exploration into Kelly Cochran's practice of avoidance, her list of trophies, and consistencies in her wildly varying stories, leads to some pretty solid conclusions about Kelly and Jason. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Research assistance by Becca Cline. Music by William Hellfire, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, and Radical Face.

Josh deep-dives the lists of Kelly's and Jason's alleged 32 victims, with some shocking revelations and a whole lot of WTF moments.Next Episode: 28 June 2023This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, and produced by Josh HallmarkResearch assistance by Becca Cline and Michelle KaszubaResources include: NAMUS, The Charley Project, boatman.com. Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere.

Kelly's lists of 32 alleged victims lead investigators to find some interesting evidence in Illinois and Minnesota. And Josh begins making sense of Kelly's lists (and lies). Next Episode: 21 June 2023This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandResearch assistance by Becca Cline and Michelle Kaszuba. Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, and Radical Face.

Kelly's brother, Colton, shares some revealing and shocking information with investigators. Kelly discusses her first three murders. And patterns begin to emerge.Next Episode: 14 June 2023 This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandResearch assistance by Becca Cline. Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Kyle Preston, and Radical Face.

The Kelly Cochran case files arrive, opening a Pandora's Box of depravity. And during an encounter following Jason's death, Kelly shows Hobart police just how calculating and unhinged she truly is. Next episode: 31 May 2023This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandResearch assistance by Becca Cline. Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Ian Alex Mac, Stacxk, and Kevin MacLeod.

Josh goes inside the investigation into Kelly Cochran, revealing new information, new links, and a possible timeline. And the investigation itself raises some important questions about what authorities do and don't know. Next episode: 24 May 2023This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, The Inner Shore

If Laura Frizzo knows Kelly best, then Walt Ammerman probably knew Jason best. We get to know Jason through an interview with friend and eventual informant, Walt. Then we explore Kelly's Facebook and its odd parallels to her crimes, and an unsolved Indiana homicide and its odd parallels to Chris Regan's murder. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Kyle Preston, and LEVY.

She may be the only living person to truly know Kelly Cochran. Laura Frizzo talks the Cochrans, David Thayer, the glass ceiling, and how this case has impacted her life. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Chris Zabriskie, LaBon

The investigation into Jason and Kelly Cochran's other crimes begins with a look into their time in Indiana; revealing some strange and shocking connections. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Kevin MacLeod, and Jenny Wilson.Sources: NAMUS, The Charley Project, Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder, and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps, The Iron Mountain Daily News, and The Iron County Reporter.

The trial of Kelly Cochran reveals shocking information about Kelly and Jason, discerns Kelly's truth from lies, and begins painting a clear picture of the Cochrans' killing spree. Plus, we take a closer look at Jason's manuscript. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Chris Zabriskie, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face. Sources: Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder, and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps, The Iron Mountain Daily News, The Iron County Reporter, and Dead North.

Kelly discusses a third murder. Josh takes a look at the two women at the center of this case, and how their lives were affected and intertwined by it. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face. Sources: The Iron Mountain Daily News, Michigan Live, U.P. Matters, The Iron County Reporter, Dead North.

Investigators and psychologists try to get to the bottom of which Cochran was abusing the other. Chief Frizzo works with the FBI and an unlikely informant to coerce Kelly into confessing. And Kelly hits the road, again. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Radical Face, and Anna Calvi Sources: Dead North and The Iron County Reporter

Phone records, discrepancies in Kelly Cochran's statements, search warrants, and several interviews lead to some shocking revelations surrounding Chris Regan's disappearance. Plus, criminal psychologist, Joni Johnston, discusses female psychopaths. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandWritten, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Radical Face, and The Bird & The Bee. Sources: Dead North, Psychology Today, and Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps

On the night of Kelly Cochran's wedding, her husband Jason forced her to agree to a pact: That if she ever cheated on him, she'd have to kill the man she cheated with. That pact would result in the deaths of at least 9 people.This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyiFor an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothandMusic: Chris Zabriskie: Last Night I Dreamt I Saw True Love in Your EyesSergey Cheremisinov: SleepersSergey Cheremisinov: Comets and Sparks Whithe: Consequences DOOMSQUAD: Ice StormMy Brightest Diamond: Lover KillerResources: • FOIA files• Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-equation/201805/what-we-know-and-dont-know-about-female-psychopaths• The Iron Mountain Daily News: https://www.ironmountaindailynews.com/news/local-news/2017/02/missing-or-dead/• Dead North, Investigation Discovery• The Iron County Reporter

It started with the 2014 disappearance of an Upper Michigan man named Chris Regan. The two-year investigation into his disappearance would take authorities on a strange journey into a world of sex, drugs, pig farming, alleged cannibalism, and serial murder; all stemming from a wedding day pact between Kelly and Jason Cochran, that resulted in the murder of at least two men. Investigative reporter, Josh Hallmark, dives through thousands of case files and dozens of hours of interviews with Kelly to make sense of the breadth of her crimes and her often contradictory stories, in hopes of identifying her additional victims she's refused to name... if there even are any.Launches: 3/15/23The Pact originally aired as season 3 of True Crime Bullsh**.