Off The Shelf

Charles Paisley was born into the message and grew up in raised in Faith Assembly Church in Clarksville, Indiana where Junior Jackson was the pastor. Charles became assistant pastor of the church in the years after Raymond Jackson died. Charles is currently a minister at The Gospel Church of Jeffersonville, Indiana, where he is working … Continue reading "Episode 91 – Charles Paisley (Part 3)"

Charles Paisley was born into the message and grew up in raised in Faith Assembly Church in Clarksville, Indiana where Junior Jackson was the pastor. Charles became assistant pastor of the church in the years after Raymond Jackson died. Charles is currently a minister at The Gospel Church of Jeffersonville, Indiana, where he is working … Continue reading "Episode 90 – Charles Paisley (Part 2)"

Charles Paisley was born into the message and was raised in Faith Assembly Church in Clarksville, Indiana where Junior Jackson was the pastor. Charles became assistant pastor of the church in the years after Raymond Jackson died. He has traveled international and has visited dozens of message Churches. His family has been in the message … Continue reading "Episode 89 – Charles Paisley – Another minister leaves the message"

This is the conclusion of our interview with Deborah Daulton Thibodeau. Her story is chronicled in “The Serpent’s Tail”, which Deb has authored. The book is published by Adelaide books is available directly from the publisher or from Amazon. Why were Ed Daulton’s last words : “Brother Branham, lied to me. I have been betrayed!” … Continue reading "Episode 88 – The Serpent’s Tail (Part 5)"

Rod continues his interview with Deborah Daulton Thibodeau in this episode. Her story is chronicled in “The Serpent’s Tail”, which Deb has authored. The book is published by Adelaide books is available directly from the publisher or from Amazon. The transcript of our podcast is available to download:

In Part 3, Rod continues his interview with Deborah Daulton Thibodeau. Her story is chronicled in “The Serpent’s Tail”, which Deb has authored. The book is published by Adelaide books is available directly from the publisher or from Amazon. The transcript of our podcast is available to download:

In this episode, Rod continues his interview with Deborah Daulton Thibodeau. Her story is chronicled in “The Serpent’s Tail”, which Deb has authored. The book is published by Adelaide books is available directly from the publisher or from Amazon. The transcript of our podcast is available to download:

In this episode, Rod interviews Deborah Daulton Thibodeau, the youngest daughter of Ed Daulton. Her story is chronicled in “The Serpent’s Tail”, which Deb has authored. The book is published by Adelaide books and is available on Amazon and directly from Adelaide Books. In the summer of 1962, about sixty members of several large extended … Continue reading "Episode 84 – The Serpent’s Tail – Abuse in the Park"

This is part 2 of our interview with Arthur Antunes, the author of “The Secret of the Seventh Angel: The Downfall of Branhamism” which was published in July 2021 in Brazil. Arthur Antunes is a pseudonym or pen name and the true identity of the author remains a secret. For the purpose of this interview … Continue reading "Episode 83 – The Downfall of the Message in Brazil? (Part 2)"

In this episode, Rod interviews Arthur Antunes, the author of “The Secret of the Seventh Angel: The Downfall of Branhamism” which was published in July 2021 in Brazil. Arthur Antunes is a pseudonym or pen name and the true identity of the author remains a secret. For the purpose of this interview the voice of … Continue reading "Episode 82 – What is happening to the Message in Brazil?"

Rod, Emily and Tim conclude their discussion with former message pastor James Manuel of Cape Town, South Africa. James was in the message for almost 40 years. Link to the Testimony of James Manuel The following is a transcript of the podcast:

Rod, Emily and Tim continue their discussion with former message pastor James Manuel of Cape Town, South Africa. James was in the message for almost 40 years. The following is a transcript of the podcast:

Rod, Emily and Tim interview former message pastor James Manuel of Cape Town, South Africa. James was in the message for almost 40 years. This interview continues James’ story from where we left off in Episode 52.  External links: BelieveTheSign article – Message pastor Vin Dayal charged with money laundering BelieveTheSign article – The Testimony … Continue reading "Episode 79 – Pastor James Manuel of South Africa (Part 1)"

Jeff Jenkins was the pastor of Believers Christian Fellowship in Lima, Ohio for almost 33 and a half years. In the conclusion of our interview, we talk about whether what his advice is to those that have left the message and what the proper approach should be to religion and faith based on his experience since … Continue reading "Episode 78 – Pastor Jeff Jenkins – 7 Years Later (Part 4)"

Jeff Jenkins was the pastor of Believers Christian Fellowship in Lima, Ohio for almost 33 and a half years. In part 3 of our interview, we talk about whether he has had any contact with other message ministers since he left the message and how his ministry has developed over the past 7 years. Links– Our … Continue reading "Episode 77 – Pastor Jeff Jenkins – 7 Years Later (Part 3)"

Jeff Jenkins was the pastor of Believers Christian Fellowship in Lima, Ohio for almost 33 and a half years. In part 2 of our interview, we talk about what has surprised him most since he left the message. Links – Our first interview with Pastor Jeff – Jeff Jenkins discusses the 1963 Arizona Cloud The following … Continue reading "Episode 76 – Pastor Jeff Jenkins – 7 Years Later (Part 2)"

Jeff Jenkins was the pastor of Believers Christian Fellowship in Lima, Ohio for almost 33 and a half years. Rod Bergen and Tim Kraus talk to Jeff about: – What have been the biggest changes in his thinking since he left the message 7 years ago? – What has surprised him most since he left the … Continue reading "Episode 75 – Pastor Jeff Jenkins – Seven Years Later (Part 1)"

This is the first in a new series that we are going to be doing called Talks with Tim.  Tim Kraus, as our regular listeners know, is one of the co-hosts on Off The Shelf.  If you would like some background on Tim, please listen to episode 61 where we talk to Tim at length … Continue reading "Episode 74 – Talks with Tim – Donny Reagan Gets Excited"

This is the conclusion of our discussion with message pastor Jesse Smith regarding the status of William Branham as a prophet.  Jax Cox and Tim Kraus act as moderators. The discussion focused around this agreed issue: William Branham is considered by his followers to be a prophet and, specifically, the messenger to the church of … Continue reading "Episode 73 – The 2020 Debate (Part 7)"

This is part 6 of our discussion with message pastor Jesse Smith regarding the status of William Branham as a prophet.  Jax Cox and Tim Kraus act as moderators. In this portion of our discussion, we deal with: If William Branham’s teaching is correct, why do message followers display so little love for those who … Continue reading "Episode 72 – The 2020 Debate (Part 6)"

This is part 5 of our discussion with message pastor Jesse Smith regarding the status of William Branham as a prophet.  Jax Cox and Tim Kraus act as moderators. Specifically, in this portion of our discussion, we deal with: Specifically, in this portion of our discussion, we deal with the following: If William Branham’s teaching … Continue reading "Episode 71 – The 2020 Debate (Part 5)"

This is part 4 of our discussion with message pastor Jesse Smith regarding the status of William Branham as a prophet.  Jax Cox and Tim Kraus act as moderators. Specifically, in this portion of our discussion, we deal with: Specifically, in this portion of our discussion, we deal with Does the Holy Spirit lead a … Continue reading "Episode 70 – The 2020 Debate (Part 4)"

This is part 3 of our discussion with message pastor Jesse Smith regarding the status of William Branham as a prophet.  Specifically, in this portion of our discussion, we deal with: How do we respond to WMB’s failed visions given the clear requirements of Deuteronomy 18:20 to 22? How is this affected by cognitive bias? … Continue reading "Episode 69 – The 2020 Debate (Part 3)"

This is part 2 of our discussion with message pastor Jesse Smith regarding the status of William Branham as a prophet.  Specifically, in this portion of our discussion, we deal with the King James Version Only-ism, women wearing pants and whether it is OK to condemn people who are not Christians. Jay Cox and Tim … Continue reading "Episode 68 – The 2020 Debate (Part 2)"

On September 12, 2020, the first-ever English language debate was held between a message pastor (Jesse Smith of Akron, OH) and an ex-message Christian (Rod Bergen from the Off The Shelf podcast and the BelieveTheSign website). The discussion was moderated by C. Jay Cox and Tim Kraus. The agreed question for discussion: William Branham is … Continue reading "Episode 67 – The 2020 Debate (Part 1)"

This is the conclusion of the interview with Eleisha Moreno, a former follower of Joseph Coleman, who initiated the Seven Thunders Inspiration, a sub-cult within the “Message” (which is how followers of William Branham refer to themselves). Book – When Prophecy Fails by Leon Festinger Music – Losing My Religion by Lauren Daigle from the … Continue reading "Episode 66 – The Seven Thunders – An Interview with Eleisha Moreno (Part 3)"

In this episode, Emily, Rod, and Tim interview Eleisha Moreno, a former follower of Joseph Coleman, who initiated the Seven Thunders Inspiration, a sub-cult within the “Message” (which is how followers of William Branham refer to themselves). Rod starts the podcast with an editorial comment on a topic that is getting a lot of play … Continue reading "Episode 65 – The Seven Thunders – An Interview with Eleisha Moreno (Part 2)"

In this episode, Emily, Rod, and Tim interview Eleisha Moreno, a former follower of Joseph Coleman, who initiated the Seven Thunders Inspiration, a sub-cult within the “Message” (which is how followers of William Branham refer to themselves). Joseph Coleman preached his first sermon in Eleisha’s grandparents’ home in the early 1960’s, so Eleisha’s knowledge of … Continue reading "Episode 64 – The Seven Thunders – An Interview with Eleisha Moreno (Part 1)"

This episode concludes the discussion with our new co-hosts. Rod Bergen talks to Emily Arndt and Tim Kraus about a number of important issues relating to the message. External links – Article on Pastor Vinworth Dayal from Trinidad Music – God Still Loves Me by Andrae Crouch – Available on Apple Music

This episode continues the introduction of our new co-hosts. Rod Bergen talks to Emily Arndt and Tim Kraus about a number of important issues relating to the message. Music – The Storm Still Rages by Rhonda Vincent – Available on Apple Music

Season 2 (Episode 61) of Off The Shelf starts with an introduction to our new co-hosts. Rod Bergen talks to Emily Arndt (see episode 16) about what has happened to her over the last couple of years and Tim Kraus tells of how he came to the message and why he left. Music – Call … Continue reading "Episode 61 – Season 2 Kick-Off – Introducing Our New Co-Hosts"

Listen to Jay Cox, a message follower, in a conversation with Rod Bergen, a former message believer.  In this conclusion of their interview,, they discuss why someone should follow William Branham and the status is of those who do not follow William Branham.   Other topics referred to in the interview: Dallas Willard on Post-modern … Continue reading "Episode 60 – An interview with message follower C. Jay Cox (Part 4)"

With apologies for an almost 2 year hiatus, Rod continues his conversation with Jay Cox, a follower of William Branham.  In part 3, they discuss whether William Branham made any real prophecies.  Their discussion includes (click on the underlined links to read further): Related Links Searching for Vindication Pillar of fire on the Ohio river … Continue reading "Episode 59 – An interview with message follower C. Jay Cox (Part 3)"

Rod continues his conversation with Jay Cox, a follower of William Branham.  In this second part, they discuss whether William Branham made any real prophecies.  Their discussion includes: What is the Biblical Test for a Prophet? The Seven Visions of 1933 Did President Roosevelt start World War 2? Video – The prophecy of the egg-shaped … Continue reading "Episode 58 – An interview with message follower C. Jay Cox (Part 2)"

Listen to Jay Cox, a message follower, in a conversation with Rod Bergen, a former message believer.  In this first part, they discuss what it means to be a follower of William Branham; where Jay places himself in the world of the message and the types of prophecies that William Branham made. External links: The … Continue reading "Episode 57 – An interview with message follower C. Jay Cox (Part 1)"

Rod concludes the interview with his wife, Cindy and their daughter, Anna, regarding their experiences in the message and why they left. Go to Part 1 Music – Father and Daughter by Paul Simon from the album The Essential Paul Simon (2007) – Available on iTunes

In this installment of Off The Shelf, Rod interviews his wife, Cindy and his daughter, Anna, about their experiences in the message. External links: BelieveTheSign article – The Municipal Bridge Vision Searching For Vindication website Music – You Are So Beautiful by Joe Cocker from the album 20th Century Masters – The Millennium Collection: The Best … Continue reading "Episode 55 – An interview with Cindy and Anna Bergen (Part 1)"

This is the conclusion of the interview with former message follower Dr. Gabriel Pollen of Zambia. Dr. Pollen recently received a Ph.D. in Economics from the University of London. Dr. Pollen was raised in the message but recently came to grips with the problems in William Branham’s ministry.  This is his story. Go to Part … Continue reading "Episode 54 – An Interview with Dr. Gabriel Pollen (Part 2)"

Rod interviews former message follower Dr. Gabriel Pollen of Zambia. Dr. Pollen recently received a Ph.D. in Economics from the University of London. Dr. Pollen was raised in the message but recently came to grips with the problems in William Branham’s ministry.  This is his story. Music – Songs That Answer Questions by Gaither Vocal … Continue reading "Episode 53 – An Interview with Dr. Gabriel Pollen (Part 1)"

Rod continues his interview with former message pastor James Manuel of Cape Town, South Africa. James was in the message for almost 40 years. Since leaving the message, James has embarked on a mission to expose the lies, deception, fraud and corruption in the message wherever and whenever he gets an opportunity.  He has challenged … Continue reading "Episode 52 – An interview with Pastor James Manuel of South Africa (Part 3)"

Rod continues his interview with former message pastor James Manuel of Cape Town, South Africa. James was in the message for almost 40 years.  He believed it, he lived it and he preached it. The message was all his wife and children knew and it was all he knew. James has stated that he is … Continue reading "Episode 51 – An interview with Pastor James Manuel of South Africa (Part 2)"

Rod interviews former message pastor James Manuel of Cape Town, South Africa. James was in the message for almost 40 years.  He believed it, he lived it and he preached it. The message was all his wife and children knew and it was all he knew. Since leaving the message, James has embarked on a … Continue reading "Episode 50 – An interview with Pastor James Manuel of South Africa (Part 1)"

Rod and Andrew Loza, a former police detective, continue their discussion of the doctrine of the seven church ages. External links: BelieveTheSign article on the Seven Church Age doctrine BelieveTheSign article on whether the message is a cult BelieveTheSign article on Christians that were required to believe Satanic doctrine Music – Wishful Thinking  by MercyMe … Continue reading "Episode 49 – A Biblical view of the Seven Church Ages – An Interview with Andrew Loza (Part 2)"

Rod and one of our listeners, Andrew Loza, a former police detective, discuss growing up in the message and  what led him to leave the message.  They also begin a discussion of the doctrine of the seven church ages. Sermon quotes played in this podcast: William Branham, The Invisible Union Of The Bride Of Christ, … Continue reading "Episode 48 – A Biblical view of the Seven Church Ages – An Interview with Andrew Loza (Part 1)"

Rod & John continue to examine Wisper Gwena’s defence of William Branham.  In this episode, Pastor Gwena’s defense of William Branham is challenged on the basis that: All of William Branham’s prophecies are “after the fact” and even some of those he gets wrong. William Branham made no valid “before the fact” prophecies on any of … Continue reading "Episode 47 – How to defend William Branham… poorly (Part 5)"

Rod & John continue to examine Wisper Gwena’s defence of William Branham.  They examine what cognitive dissonance is and discuss Pastor Gwena’s claim that he is not the one suffering from cognitive dissonance, rather it is John and Rod that are the ones that are experiencing cognitive dissonance.  But is this really the case? External Links: … Continue reading "Episode 46 – How to defend William Branham… poorly (Part 4)"

Rod & John continue to examine Wisper Gwena’s defence of William Branham.  Pastor Gwena is from Waltham Abbey (North London), UK where he is the pastor of Spoken Word Ministry church.  Joining Rod is John Collins, author of the Seek The Truth website and grandson of Willard Collins, the former pastor of Branham Tabernacle in Jeffersonville, Indiana. … Continue reading "Episode 45 – How to defend William Branham… poorly (Part 3)"

Rod and his daughter, Anna, share stories from our listeners about their experiences with celebrating (or not celebrating) Christmas in the message.  Rod ends the podcast with a description of what Christmas is really all about. External links Article on Christianity and the Celebration of Christmas Article on William Branham and the Birth of Jesus … Continue reading "Episode 44 – Christmas in the message"

Rod & John continue to examine Wisper Gwena’s defence of William Branham.  Specifically, they examine a number of significant problems with William Branham such as the lack of newspaper articles which William Branham said appeared across the US and Canada; his lies about travelling around the world seven times; his visit to Pigalle; the problems with … Continue reading "Episode 43 – How to defend William Branham… poorly (Part 2)"

In this episode, Rod  responds to a defense of William Branham that was presented by Wisper Gwena, pastor of Spoken Word Ministry church, Waltham Abbey (North London), UK.  Rod is joined by John Collins, author of the Seek The Truth website and grandson of Willard Collins, the former pastor of Branham Tabernacle in Jeffersonville, Indiana.  … Continue reading "Episode 42 – How to defend William Branham… poorly (Part 1)"

Several weeks ago, we received an email from a listener.  Here is an excerpt from that email: In a nutshell, I feel like I am in the very beginning stages of “Message Recovery”… terrified of attending “any church”, still struggling with fear of “damnation” and “total confusion” of who/what God is vs. the Indoctrination of … Continue reading "Episode 41 – Recovering from the message"