Podcast appearances and mentions of Dallas Willard

Dr. Ryan and Dr. Matt have a conversation with Dave Ripper about his new book Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard .Bio:Dave Ripper is the lead pastor of Crossway Christian Church, a multi-congregational church in southern New Hampshire focused on spiritual formation. He earned a Doctor of Ministry in spiritual direction from Fuller Theological Seminary and the Martin Institute for Christianity and Culture and Dallas Willard Research Center at Westmont College. He's the author of “Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard and coauthor of The Fellowship of the Suffering.”About the Book:Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus offers a unique pathway to deeper spiritual engagement, using Dallas Willard's revolutionary approach to reading the Bible. More than a study tool, Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus invites you to transform your encounters with Scripture from mere information gathering to profound spiritual experiences. Using primary source material and insights from Willard, Dave Ripper takes you on an immersive exploration of Scripture that mirrors the intellect of a philosopher and the heart of a mystic.You'll find experiential exercises designed to prompt reflection and foster enriching group conversations, helping you not just to read, but to truly know the God of the Bible. Perfect for pastors, ministry leaders, and spiritual seekers shaped by voices like Eugene Peterson and Richard Foster, Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus offers a call to experience God's presence in new and vibrant ways.Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus is a valuable resource for anyone seeking to deepen their understanding and connection with Scripture as a disciple of Jesus. It offers practical tools, insights, and exercises that can be applied both individually and in group settings. By incorporating the teachings of Dallas Willard, Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus provides a unique perspective on reading the Bible that goes beyond simple information gathering.Buy the book: https://a.co/d/4IN81Nz

If most people were asked to describe God, they probably wouldn't use the word “joyful.” But that is exactly who and what God is! There is a great Christian thinker by the name of G.K Chesterton. As he is reflecting on the joy that children can have, he says this, “We have sinned and grown old and Our Father is younger than we.” His point is this: While we have grown old and tired and jaded and cynical, God has not. While we have spent our days overwhelmed, irritated, angry and stressed out, God knows none of those things. When he says that our Father is younger than we, he is referring to God's sheer joy. One of my favorite authors is Dallas Willard. Here is what he said about God's joy. “You'll not understand God until you understand this about Him, God is the happiest being in the universe.” In fact, the reason that joy is a fruit of the Holy Spirit is because God himself is joy, and He will share that joy with anyone who would abide in His Son.

On episode 299 of Life With God (recorded live at the RēGathering conference), professor and author Rebecca DeYoung talks with Nathan about what to do when we feel angry. Show NotesResources by Rebecca DeYoungArticle: “How to Practice Hope”Essay: “Why Are You Angry?”Talk: “The Seven Deadly Sins: Wrath”Scholarly publications: Available online here Other related resources recommended by Rebecca“Praying in the Dark” by J. Todd Billings—on lament, protest, and compassionate witness as ways to express our emotions without spiraling into despair. Listen to an interview with Charlotte vanOyen Witvliet (a Christian psychologist and friend of Rebecca DeYoung) on moving forward in forgiveness. ​​Aquinas on the vice of wrathGarret Keizer, The Enigma of Anger: Essays on a Sometimes Deadly Sin Josef Pieper, "The Power of Wrath" in The Four Cardinal Virtues (Notre Dame Press), 193-197. Robert C. Roberts, "Peace" in Spiritual emotions: a psychology of Christian virtues (Eerdmans),  165-178. 

Philippians 2:1-11 NIVQuote by CS Lewis, Mere Christianity, Humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less.Quote by Dallas Willard, Spirit of the Disciplines, Secrecy rightly practiced enables us to place our public relations department entirely in the hands of God…We allow him to decide when our deeds will be known and when our light will be noticed.Humility and Other-Centeredness            Surrendered to the agenda of God            Faithful in the small things            See the dignity of others            Receive the goodness of GodPractice of Secrecy

At Redeemer, our pathway is how we seek to embody our vision and mission, or in other words, put it into practice. We desire every person to enter into intentional apprenticeship to Jesus, to be in a diverse, loving community, and to live in Wichita as witnesses. “The Church exists for nothing else but to draw men and women into Christ, to make them little Christs. If they are not doing that, all the cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible itself, are simply a waste of time. God became man for no other purpose.” – CS Lewis At Redeemer, we take seriously Jesus' call to “Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Apprenticeship to Jesus is not a one time decision, but a lifelong journey of following Jesus as our master-teacher. Since the goal of the Christian life is maturity in Jesus, apprenticeship must be deep and holistic, transforming the spiritual, physical, emotional, social, and vocational parts of men and women. Apprenticeship to Jesus is learning to practice the way of Jesus in our homes, relationships, neighborhoods, and jobs. We believe Christlikeness is cultivated as we implement spiritual practices, live in community with other believers, and submit to the Word and the Spirit. We agree with Dallas Willard who said, “that the gospel is opposed to earning, not effort.” As we move towards cultivating a life of loving God and people, we trust Christ will mature us into his likeness. https://redeemerwichita.church/  

Host: Steve Macchia,  Guest: Trevor Hudson  This episode originally aired on October 6, 2022 as Episode 1 of Season 22.  Trevor Hudson joins Steve Macchia to discuss what it means to discern the voice of God and follow Jesus in family and vocational life as well as times of discontent and suffering. Drawing from the wisdom of Saint Ignatius of Loyola and Dallas Willard, Trevor offers insights and practical ways we can seek and find God in everyday living. This REWIND episode was originally aired in October of 2022 and remains one of the most downloaded episodes of The Discerning Leader podcast.  Join the conversation about spiritual discernment as a way of life at www.LeadershipTransformations.org and consider participation in our online and in-person program offerings. Additional LTI spiritual formation resources can be found at www.SpiritualFormationStore.com and www.ruleoflife.com and www.healthychurch.net.    

At Redeemer, our pathway is how we seek to embody our vision and mission, or in other words, put it into practice. We desire every person to enter into intentional apprenticeship to Jesus, to be in a diverse, loving community, and to live in Wichita as witnesses. “The Church exists for nothing else but to draw men and women into Christ, to make them little Christs. If they are not doing that, all the cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible itself, are simply a waste of time. God became man for no other purpose.” – CS Lewis At Redeemer, we take seriously Jesus' call to “Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Apprenticeship to Jesus is not a one time decision, but a lifelong journey of following Jesus as our master-teacher. Since the goal of the Christian life is maturity in Jesus, apprenticeship must be deep and holistic, transforming the spiritual, physical, emotional, social, and vocational parts of men and women. Apprenticeship to Jesus is learning to practice the way of Jesus in our homes, relationships, neighborhoods, and jobs. We believe Christlikeness is cultivated as we implement spiritual practices, live in community with other believers, and submit to the Word and the Spirit. We agree with Dallas Willard who said, “that the gospel is opposed to earning, not effort.” As we move towards cultivating a life of loving God and people, we trust Christ will mature us into his likeness. https://redeemerwichita.church/  

Gary Haugen has seen the darkest things imaginable. He's spent decades fighting human traffickers, corrupt governments, and mobs that enslave men, women, and children to sell them for sex and profit. But he's not one bit cynical. As president of International Justice Mission, Haugen has worked to abolish modern-day slavery and to put the bad guys in jail while building the kind of institutions that ensure people are never treated that way again.   In this episode, Russell and Haugen discuss the objection that “justice issues” distract from the gospel. They also talk about how people can know whether God is calling them to some area of justice and mercy and about how those who are doing this kind of work can keep from burnout or despair. Haugen quoted from C. S. Lewis's Screwtape Letters: “Despair is a greater sin than any of the sins which provoke it.” He talks about how he learned from the writings of Dallas Willard and others the kinds of spiritual disciplines he needs to stay grounded and hopeful. The two also talk about going to church 13 times a week, the complex psychology of an oppressor, the power of art and music to move us to action, practical steps toward seeking justice, and of course, Wendell Berry. Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here for 25% off a subscription to CT magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of Tell Me More, hosts Katy Reed Hodges and Luke Stehr speak with guest Curt Grice about Sunday's sermon by Dennis R. Wiles at First Baptist Arlington. The discussion centers on the sermon "Flourishing Formation: Seek God's Kingdom!" based on Matthew 6:25-34.The conversation examines Pastor Wiles' use of metamorphosis as a conceptual framework for spiritual formation. The hosts and guest analyze the sermon's main points regarding transformation in Christian life, addressing the questions of identity and purpose in spiritual development.Topics covered include the prohibition against worry, the practice of seeking God's kingdom as a priority, and the promise of divine provision. The discussion references theological perspectives from Dallas Willard, Eugene Peterson, and John Mark Comer on spiritual formation and discipleship.The episode provides factual information about the contrast between cultural approaches to life and the alternative path of following Jesus. Listeners will hear an analysis of what it means to be "formed, conformed, and transformed" as disciples according to the sermon text.

The global Church is changing—but are our prayers keeping up with its needs? In this episode of the Lausanne Movement Podcast, Jason Mandryk, editor of Operation World, joins us for a thought-provoking conversation on the role of strategic, Spirit-led intercession in the age of global change. From his personal calling into prayer mobilization to the intersection of data, mission, and worship, Jason helps us reimagine prayer not as an obligation but as a joyful, global act of partnership with God. We explore current global trends shaping the Church, the challenges of Western influence, and why now more than ever, believers must pray with insight.  

At Redeemer, our pathway is how we seek to embody our vision and mission, or in other words, put it into practice. We desire every person to enter into intentional apprenticeship to Jesus, to be in a diverse, loving community, and to live in Wichita as witnesses. “The Church exists for nothing else but to draw men and women into Christ, to make them little Christs. If they are not doing that, all the cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible itself, are simply a waste of time. God became man for no other purpose.” – CS Lewis At Redeemer, we take seriously Jesus' call to “Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Apprenticeship to Jesus is not a one time decision, but a lifelong journey of following Jesus as our master-teacher. Since the goal of the Christian life is maturity in Jesus, apprenticeship must be deep and holistic, transforming the spiritual, physical, emotional, social, and vocational parts of men and women. Apprenticeship to Jesus is learning to practice the way of Jesus in our homes, relationships, neighborhoods, and jobs. We believe Christlikeness is cultivated as we implement spiritual practices, live in community with other believers, and submit to the Word and the Spirit. We agree with Dallas Willard who said, “that the gospel is opposed to earning, not effort.” As we move towards cultivating a life of loving God and people, we trust Christ will mature us into his likeness. https://redeemerwichita.church/  

James Bryan Smith has a Things Above conversation with author Michael Stewart Robb about his book, “The Kingdom Among Us: The Gospel According to Dallas Willard.” Despite perennial attraction to his teachings, Dallas Willard's theology has not been easy for his readers and colleagues to figure out or piece together. His approach to theology was […] The post Conversation with Michael Stewart Robb appeared first on Apprentice Institute.

This week on the Church in Action, we're diving into part 2 of our interview with Pastor Dave Ripper of Crossway Christian Church on Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus! We discuss his new book that was written based on his dissertation and the teachings he learned in his time with Dallas Willard. This is an encouraging listen and we hope it encourages you!Follow Us! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/visionnewenglandFacebook: https://facebook.com/visionnewengland  Website: https://www.visionnewengland.orgTo purchase Dave Ripper's book, click below!bit.ly/3ZkZBNk

At Redeemer, our pathway is how we seek to embody our vision and mission, or in other words, put it into practice. We desire every person to enter into intentional apprenticeship to Jesus, to be in a diverse, loving community, and to live in Wichita as witnesses. “The Church exists for nothing else but to draw men and women into Christ, to make them little Christs. If they are not doing that, all the cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible itself, are simply a waste of time. God became man for no other purpose.” – CS Lewis At Redeemer, we take seriously Jesus' call to “Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Apprenticeship to Jesus is not a one time decision, but a lifelong journey of following Jesus as our master-teacher. Since the goal of the Christian life is maturity in Jesus, apprenticeship must be deep and holistic, transforming the spiritual, physical, emotional, social, and vocational parts of men and women. Apprenticeship to Jesus is learning to practice the way of Jesus in our homes, relationships, neighborhoods, and jobs. We believe Christlikeness is cultivated as we implement spiritual practices, live in community with other believers, and submit to the Word and the Spirit. We agree with Dallas Willard who said, “that the gospel is opposed to earning, not effort.” As we move towards cultivating a life of loving God and people, we trust Christ will mature us into his likeness. https://redeemerwichita.church/  

In this episode, we discuss how discipleship is communal. Join us as we discuss this aspect of discipleship together.ResourcesQuotes"The mature Christian is almost impossible to offend." —Dallas Willard"A mature christian is easily edified." —Harold Best Connect With Us providenceomaha.org | Instagram | Facebook Email Us formation@providenceomaha.org

This week on the Church in Action we are talking with Pastor Dave Ripper, author of Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple Jesus: Reading the Bible Like Dallas Willard. Dave is the lead pastor at Crossway Christian Church in Nashua, NH, studied with Dallas Willard and wrote this book based on his dissertation. Follow Us! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/visionnewenglandFacebook: https://facebook.com/visionnewengland  Website: https://www.visionnewengland.orgTo purchase Dave Ripper's book, click below!bit.ly/3ZkZBNk

At Redeemer, our pathway is how we seek to embody our vision and mission, or in other words, put it into practice. We desire every person to enter into intentional apprenticeship to Jesus, to be in a diverse, loving community, and to live in Wichita as witnesses. “The Church exists for nothing else but to draw men and women into Christ, to make them little Christs. If they are not doing that, all the cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible itself, are simply a waste of time. God became man for no other purpose.” – CS Lewis At Redeemer, we take seriously Jesus' call to “Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Apprenticeship to Jesus is not a one time decision, but a lifelong journey of following Jesus as our master-teacher. Since the goal of the Christian life is maturity in Jesus, apprenticeship must be deep and holistic, transforming the spiritual, physical, emotional, social, and vocational parts of men and women. Apprenticeship to Jesus is learning to practice the way of Jesus in our homes, relationships, neighborhoods, and jobs. We believe Christlikeness is cultivated as we implement spiritual practices, live in community with other believers, and submit to the Word and the Spirit. We agree with Dallas Willard who said, “that the gospel is opposed to earning, not effort.” As we move towards cultivating a life of loving God and people, we trust Christ will mature us into his likeness. https://redeemerwichita.church/  

Venezuelan-Canadian author Paola Barrera joins Nate on Life With God to discuss her story of immigration and how it shaped her outlook on God's kingdom.

In this two-part series, John and Allen respond to some of your biggest questions—including one you've likely never had until now: Why is Cap'n Crunch in this week's podcast title? In Part 1, the questions cover a variety of topics including what happens when we hear from God but things still go sideways, how can there be no sadness in heaven if people we love won't be there, why does it seem so hard to pursue union with God, and is it contradictory to engage in apps like the Experience Jesus modules while also trying to spend less time on our phones?Show Notes: The Ladder of Love registration details are at wildatheart.org/events/ladder-of-love-retreat-october-2025. Send your podcast questions to John and Allen at questions@wildatheart.org. See the Cap'n Crunch photo here or by watching this week's Wild at Heart video podcast on YouTube. The books referenced are Hearing God by Dallas Willard and Walking with God by John Eldredge. The past Wild at Heart podcast John mentioned is Discerning What's From God (January 20, 2025)._______________________________________________There is more.Got a question you want answered on the podcast? Ask us at Questions@WildatHeart.orgSupport the mission or find more on our website: WildAtHeart.org  or on our app.Apple: Wild At Heart AppAndroid: Wild At Heart AppWatch on YouTubeThe stock music used in the Wild at Heart podcast is titled “When Laid to Rest” by Patrick Rundblad and available here.More pauses available in the One Minute Pause app for Apple iOS and Android.Apple: One Minute Pause AppAndroid: One Minute Pause App

At Redeemer, our pathway is how we seek to embody our vision and mission, or in other words, put it into practice. We desire every person to enter into intentional apprenticeship to Jesus, to be in a diverse, loving community, and to live in Wichita as witnesses. “The Church exists for nothing else but to draw men and women into Christ, to make them little Christs. If they are not doing that, all the cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible itself, are simply a waste of time. God became man for no other purpose.” – CS Lewis At Redeemer, we take seriously Jesus' call to “Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Apprenticeship to Jesus is not a one time decision, but a lifelong journey of following Jesus as our master-teacher. Since the goal of the Christian life is maturity in Jesus, apprenticeship must be deep and holistic, transforming the spiritual, physical, emotional, social, and vocational parts of men and women. Apprenticeship to Jesus is learning to practice the way of Jesus in our homes, relationships, neighborhoods, and jobs. We believe Christlikeness is cultivated as we implement spiritual practices, live in community with other believers, and submit to the Word and the Spirit. We agree with Dallas Willard who said, “that the gospel is opposed to earning, not effort.” As we move towards cultivating a life of loving God and people, we trust Christ will mature us into his likeness. https://redeemerwichita.church/

At Redeemer, our pathway is how we seek to embody our vision and mission, or in other words, put it into practice. We desire every person to enter into intentional apprenticeship to Jesus, to be in a diverse, loving community, and to live in Wichita as witnesses. “The Church exists for nothing else but to draw men and women into Christ, to make them little Christs. If they are not doing that, all the cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible itself, are simply a waste of time. God became man for no other purpose.” – CS Lewis At Redeemer, we take seriously Jesus' call to “Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Apprenticeship to Jesus is not a one time decision, but a lifelong journey of following Jesus as our master-teacher. Since the goal of the Christian life is maturity in Jesus, apprenticeship must be deep and holistic, transforming the spiritual, physical, emotional, social, and vocational parts of men and women. Apprenticeship to Jesus is learning to practice the way of Jesus in our homes, relationships, neighborhoods, and jobs. We believe Christlikeness is cultivated as we implement spiritual practices, live in community with other believers, and submit to the Word and the Spirit. We agree with Dallas Willard who said, “that the gospel is opposed to earning, not effort.” As we move towards cultivating a life of loving God and people, we trust Christ will mature us into his likeness. https://redeemerwichita.church/

President and CEO of American Leprosy Missions (Hope Rises International) Bill Simmons speaks with Nate about burnout and the Sabbatical experience that brought deep healing to his soul.Show NotesBill's book: The Way of Interruption: Spiritual Practice for Organizational LifeRead an excerpt from The Way of InterruptionFind Bill at billsimmons.net, hoperises.org, and LinkedIn.  Bill Simmons is President and CEO of American Leprosy Missions (soon to be Hope Rises International), part of his two-decade journey leading national and international organizations. Bill brings deep insight to the intersection of organizational leadership and spiritual formation, and is currently pursuing postgraduate studies in spiritual formation at Gordon Conwell Seminary. Bill holds a BA from the University of Tennessee. Bill and his wife Cindi live in Greenville, SC.

Why are more churches rediscovering and reciting the Nicene Creed? And what can the ancient articulation of Christian belief offer the church in these divided times? Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the 1700th anniversary of the creed and its place in the modern church. The Bible is critical to our faith, but have we been taught to worship the Bible rather than the God of the Bible? Dave Ripper, the author of “Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus,” explains how Dallas Willard engaged the Bible and how it can become a source of transformation, not just information. Also this week: What qualifies as anti-Christian behavior, an update on Afghan and Afrikaner refugees, and scientists discover auras are real. Holy Post Plus: Ad-Free Version of this Episode: https://www.patreon.com/posts/129442102/   Bonus Interview with Dave Ripper: https://www.patreon.com/posts/129463513/   0:00 - Show Starts   3:35 - Theme Song   3:55 - Sponsor - AG1 - Heavily researched, thoroughly purity-tested, and filled with stuff you need. Go to https://www.drinkag1.com/HOLYPOST   5:15 - Sponsor - BetterHelp - This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off your first month   7:45 - Do Mice glow?   19:30 - Shane Claiborne Arrested   25:20 - The Nicene Creed's Birthday!   31:30 - Why's the Creed Popular Right Now?   52:12  - Sponsor - Timeless designs, great fabrics. Perfect swimwear for your kids this summer! Check out Minnow at https://www.shopminnow.com enter SHOPMINNOW15 for 15% off your first order.   53:20 - Sponsor - Policy Genius - Secure your family's tomorrow so you have peace of mind today. Go to https://www.policygenius.com/HOLYPOST to find the right life insurance for you   54:32 - Interview   56:55 - How Did Ripper First Meet Willard?   1:03:50 - Jesus is a Genius   1:10:20 - Sin Management   1:22:50 - Memorizing Scripture   1:29:38 - End Credits   Links from News Segment: People Glow Til They Die! https://nationalpost.com/news/calgary-researchers-discover-that-life-has-a-literal-glow   Shane Claiborne Arrested! https://religionnews.com/2025/05/05/shane-claiborne-four-other-faith-activists-arrested-while-prayerfully-protesting-gop-budget-bill/   Popularity of the Nicene Creed https://www.christianitytoday.com/2025/05/nicene-creed-anniversary-conference-ancient-christianity-trinity-theology/   Fox News and Christian Refugees https://www.foxnews.com/politics/afghan-christian-pastor-pleads-trump-warns-taliban-revenge-after-admin-revokes-refugee-protections?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=user%2FFoxNews   Other Resources: Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard by Dave Ripper: https://a.co/d/8oWLI3i   Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/   Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus   Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost   Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop   The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.  

2 Peter 1:10-11 // Jonathan NeefDiscover how knowing Jesus with your whole being, body and soul, is the key to true virtue. This video explores the connection between spiritual disciplines, embodied knowledge, and the Christian life. Learn practical ways to "make every effort" in your faith journey, not through striving, but through deeper intimacy with Christ.SERMON NOTES (YouVersion): https://bible.com/events/49434513PRAYER REQUESTS: https://ccefc.ccbchurch.com/goto/forms/2542/responses/new25.05.18

2 Peter 1:10-11 // Tom NelsonDiscover how knowing Jesus with your whole being, body and soul, is the key to true virtue. This video explores the connection between spiritual disciplines, embodied knowledge, and the Christian life. Learn practical ways to "make every effort" in your faith journey, not through striving, but through deeper intimacy with Christ.SERMON NOTES (YouVersion): https://bible.com/events/49434514PRAYER REQUESTS: https://ccefc.ccbchurch.com/goto/forms/2509/responses/new25.05.18

2 Peter 1:10-11 // Gabriel CoyleDiscover how knowing Jesus with your whole being, body and soul, is the key to true virtue. This video explores the connection between spiritual disciplines, embodied knowledge, and the Christian life. Learn practical ways to "make every effort" in your faith journey, not through striving, but through deeper intimacy with Christ.SERMON NOTES (YouVersion): https://bible.com/events/49434515PRAYER REQUESTS: https://ccefc.ccbchurch.com/goto/forms/2553/responses/new25.05.18

At Redeemer, our pathway is how we seek to embody our vision and mission, or in other words, put it into practice. We desire every person to enter into intentional apprenticeship to Jesus, to be in a diverse, loving community, and to live in Wichita as witnesses. “The Church exists for nothing else but to draw men and women into Christ, to make them little Christs. If they are not doing that, all the cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible itself, are simply a waste of time. God became man for no other purpose.” – CS Lewis At Redeemer, we take seriously Jesus' call to “Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Apprenticeship to Jesus is not a one time decision, but a lifelong journey of following Jesus as our master-teacher. Since the goal of the Christian life is maturity in Jesus, apprenticeship must be deep and holistic, transforming the spiritual, physical, emotional, social, and vocational parts of men and women. Apprenticeship to Jesus is learning to practice the way of Jesus in our homes, relationships, neighborhoods, and jobs. We believe Christlikeness is cultivated as we implement spiritual practices, live in community with other believers, and submit to the Word and the Spirit. We agree with Dallas Willard who said, “that the gospel is opposed to earning, not effort.” As we move towards cultivating a life of loving God and people, we trust Christ will mature us into his likeness. https://redeemerwichita.church/  

2 Peter 1:10-11 // Bill GormanDiscover how knowing Jesus with your whole being, body and soul, is the key to true virtue. This video explores the connection between spiritual disciplines, embodied knowledge, and the Christian life. Learn practical ways to "make every effort" in your faith journey, not through striving, but through deeper intimacy with Christ.SERMON NOTES (YouVersion): https://bible.com/events/49434516PRAYER REQUESTS: https://ccefc.ccbchurch.com/goto/forms/2546/responses/new25.05.18

2 Peter 1:10-11 // Paul BrandesDiscover how knowing Jesus with your whole being, body and soul, is the key to true virtue. This video explores the connection between spiritual disciplines, embodied knowledge, and the Christian life. Learn practical ways to "make every effort" in your faith journey, not through striving, but through deeper intimacy with Christ.SERMON NOTES (YouVersion): https://bible.com/events/49434512PRAYER REQUESTS: https://ccefc.ccbchurch.com/goto/forms/2574/responses/new25.05.18

In this episode of Thinking Out Loud, we dive deep into the crisis of attention in the digital age and its profound implications for Christian witness, spiritual formation, and intellectual integrity. Are we losing our ability to think deeply, listen well, and discern truth amidst the noise? Join us as we explore how Sabbath, solitude, intentionality, and community can help reclaim a Christ-centered focus in a world of distraction. With references to Dallas Willard, Joseph Pieper, and the Screwtape Letters, this conversation equips Christians, apologists, and thoughtful believers to pursue meaningful theology, cultural analysis, and spiritual disciplines that resist the algorithm and restore the mind. Perfect for Christians seeking more than hot takes—subscribe for rich theological dialogue on faith, culture, and formation.DONATE LINK: https://toltogether.com/donate BOOK A SPEAKER: https://toltogether.com/book-a-speakerJOIN TOL CONNECT: https://toltogether.com/tol-connect TOL Connect is an online forum where TOL listeners can continue the conversation begun on the podcast.

On today's episode, Tim speaks with Michael Wear, President and CEO of the Center for Christianity and Public Life and author of the book, The Spirit of Our Politics: Spiritual Formation and the Renovation of Public Life, on features of Christian faithfulness and civic engagement. Michael talks about his role as a faith advisor in the White House during the Obama administration, and they discuss the influence of Dallas Willard and the role of spiritual formation in the context of political life, with particular interest on the role anger plays in our political aims and discourse. Show notes and a full transcript are available.

Nathan speaks with renowned author Kathleen Norris about writing about her sister in her new book, Rebecca Sue: A Sister's Reflections on Disability, Faith, and Love.

We continue our series about the Jewish roots of Christianity. This week's discussion questions are below: Discussion Questions May 4 1. What were some things you were taught about the Old Testament growing up? How did that shape your view of the Torah? 2. The Hebrew word *Torah* means "instruction" or "direction." How does this definition affect how we should approach the first five books of the Bible? 3. Why do you think God gave Israel such specific and unusual laws (like not mixing fabrics or seeds)? 4. How does viewing the Torah as both a religious and cultural-political document help us better understand its purpose? 5. How does Genesis 15:6 challenge the idea that Old Testament believers were saved by following laws? 6. What does it mean that “belief is busy”? How do we see this concept illustrated in both the Old and New Testaments? 7. Why do you think it was so difficult for early Jewish Christians to accept Gentiles into the church without requiring them to follow the Torah? 8. Read Galatians 2:11–16 again. What do you learn about how Paul viewed justification (being made right with God)? 9. Have you ever seen modern parallels to the “circumcision group” mentality— where people are expected to follow extra rules to be considered truly “Christian”? 10. What are some ways we may still misread or misapply Scripture today by ignoring its original context? 11. Dallas Willard said, “Grace is not against effort. It is against earning.” How does this statement help us balance faith and works in our daily walk? 12. In what ways did Jesus “fulfill” the Torah rather than abolish it? (Matt. 5:17)

I believe Dallas Willard used to say, “a good practice was to doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs”; doubt your doubts, believe your beliefs. And when we stay immersed in Christian community, even in the midst of our doubts, that's a good way to do that. Because of course, by staying in community, right, the next time Jesus shows up, Thomas was there, and he was able to encounter the risen Christ. And when he did, he was willing to be wrong. When he sees Jesus, he bows at his feet and declares him "My Lord and my God." No doubt about it, I think if we're honest, we'd have to admit that sometimes we get stuck in our doubts because we don't want the humiliation of having to say, "I was wrong." Sometimes it's just safer to say, "I don't believe."

Send us a textW3: Our episode begins with a short discussion about the life and influence of Dallas Willard.Main Topic: In this thought-provoking episode, we dive into the fascinating world of biblical anthropology, exploring what Scripture reveals about the nature of humanity. Join us as we unpack the concepts of dichotomy, trichotomy, and wholeism, examining how these perspectives shape our understanding of the body, soul, and spirit. Through engaging discussion and biblical insights, we wrestle with the implications of these views for faith, identity, and the human experience. Whether you're a theologian or simply curious about what the Bible says about who we are, this episode offers a compelling and accessible journey into the heart of human nature.

Drew and Mick continue the conversation around transformation—unpacking the believer's call to impact culture not through power grabs, but through vocation, faithfulness, and holistic living. From Genesis to Revelation, they trace the biblical roots of work as worship, explore the redemptive implications of the creation mandate, and offer a compelling vision for how everyday believers can participate in the Kingdom of God through their unique spheres of influence.Listen in for a thoughtful, hopeful, and practical exploration of vocation as a sacred calling.Feel free to share, subscribe, rate, and/or commentConnect with us:Email: ideologypc@gmail.comYoutube/Instagram: @ideologypcResources referenced:Surprised by Hope by N.T. WrightHow Then Shall We Live? by Francis SchaefferBEMA Podcast (episodes ~76–81) by Marty SolomonThe Bible: Genesis 1–3; 1 Thessalonians 4; John 19Writings and teaching references by Dallas Willard

Jesus said, “come to me…and I will give you rest”, but most of us don't have time for that do we? Even if we did, what does it mean to truly rest? We've definitely mastered entertainment, but we probably wouldn't relate our latest Netflix binge to Jesus' invitation here, would we? (Wait does “The Chosen” count??) Dallas Willard once said, “hurry is the great enemy of spiritual life in our day.” What would it look like to lean in and learn together from our “never-in-a-hurry” rabbi?CITY CHURCH EXISTS TO HELP PEOPLE FIND THEIR WAY TO GOD FROM WHERE THEY ARE. You can find us here: www.citychurchboulder.com www.facebook.com/citychurchboulder www.instagram.com/citychurchboulder

We kick off a new series about the Jewish people and how Israel affects our Bibles and the roots of Christinaity. Discussion Questions for this week are 1. Why is it important to understand the Jewishness of the Bible and of Jesus? 2. How does realizing that most of the Bible was written by and about Jewish people shift the way we read it? 3. What challenges do modern Christians face when interpreting ancient Jewish texts and customs? 4. Why did God choose the Jewish people to be his representatives on earth? 5. How do Genesis 12:1–3 and Isaiah 9:7 help us understand Israel's original calling? 6. What does it mean to say that Israel was “blessed to be a blessing”? How does that principle apply to us today? 7. What are some of the dangers of the church forgetting its Jewish roots? 8. What tensions arise when discussing modern political Israel in light of biblical Israel? 9. What does it mean to bear the name of Jesus in our lives today? 10. What does it look like when Christians misrepresent Jesus to the world? 11. What are some practical ways we can be agents of shalom in our daily lives? 12. Reflecting on Dallas Willard's quote: “Discipleship is the process of becoming who Jesus would be if he were you,” how would your life look different if you fully lived that out? 13. Are there areas of your life where you feel you've carried Jesus' name in vain (i.e., misrepresented him)? 14. What are some concrete steps you can take this week to better reflect Jesus to those around you?

At Redeemer, our pathway is how we seek to embody our vision and mission, or in other words, put it into practice. We desire every person to enter into intentional apprenticeship to Jesus, to be in a diverse, loving community, and to live in Wichita as witnesses. “The Church exists for nothing else but to draw men and women into Christ, to make them little Christs. If they are not doing that, all the cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible itself, are simply a waste of time. God became man for no other purpose.” – CS Lewis At Redeemer, we take seriously Jesus' call to “Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Apprenticeship to Jesus is not a one time decision, but a lifelong journey of following Jesus as our master-teacher. Since the goal of the Christian life is maturity in Jesus, apprenticeship must be deep and holistic, transforming the spiritual, physical, emotional, social, and vocational parts of men and women. Apprenticeship to Jesus is learning to practice the way of Jesus in our homes, relationships, neighborhoods, and jobs. We believe Christlikeness is cultivated as we implement spiritual practices, live in community with other believers, and submit to the Word and the Spirit. We agree with Dallas Willard who said, “that the gospel is opposed to earning, not effort.” As we move towards cultivating a life of loving God and people, we trust Christ will mature us into his likeness. https://redeemerwichita.church/

The McMinn's join Nate to talk about life on their farm and finding the right pace for a flourishing life.

Send us a textPersistence - the quality that allows someone to continue doing something or trying to do something even though it is difficult. This is a quality that God has asked of us when it come to forgiveness, service, prayer and humility. In Part 8 of this series, John and Sean discuss Chapter 15 of "the Scandal of the Kingdom" written by Dallas Willard. You can also watch the recording of this episode: https://www.youtube.com/@hopechurchindy 

Join us this week on the Church in Action as we revisit an enriching episode on the biblical imperative to do biblical justice from the perspectives of Dallas Willard and C.S. Lewis. Two great voices in the church but not typically known for speaking on topics such as biblical justice. In this episode, we are joined by Jahdiel Perez, a Postdoctoral Fellow at Villanova University, and Pastor Dave Ripper, Lead Pastor at Crossway Christian Church in Nashua, NH. Follow us!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/visionnewengland/?hl=enFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/VisionNewEngland/Website: https://www.visionnewengland.org/

We continue our micro series about why Jesus had to die. This week's discussion questions are below: April 13 Discussion Questions What do you feel when you think about death—fear, peace, confusion, something else? Why? 2. How has your perspective on death changed over time, if at all? 3. The sermon argues that Jesus died in order to defeat death. How does that paradox strike you—does it feel confusing, hopeful, beautiful, or something else? 4. Revelation 1:18 says Jesus holds “the keys of death and the grave.” What does that image suggest to you? What might it mean for your own life? 5. Why do you think we still fear death even when we believe Jesus defeated it? 6. What does it look like to live without the fear of death? Have you known someone who lived like that? 7. Dallas Willard said, “You want to stop now... of thinking of your life as coming to an end.” What would change in your life if you truly believed that? 8. What do you imagine the life to come will be like, based on what was shared in this sermon? 9. What does the promise of resurrection and eternal life stir in you? Joy, doubt, curiosity, longing? 10. How can you live today in light of the truth that death has been defeated and that your life will continue beyond the grave? 11. What might it look like to “pray for the kingdom to come” in your everyday routines?

In this audio meditation, Nathan Foster weaves together a selection of beautiful and challenging sayings by 17th-century spiritual director, Jean Pierre de Caussade that invite us to embrace God's formation deep into our souls.

259. God Speaks to His Kids . . . Here's How with Chris Allen   **Transcription Below**   “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.” John 10:27 NIV   Questions and Topics We Discuss: How can we actually disciple our children to listen to God and recognize when they are hearing from the Holy Spirit as well? You've stated, "If you want to hear him, cultivate wonder." Will you elaborate? What are some follow up questions we can ask our kids to actually put this into practice?   Chris Allen is married to Rachael and they have three kids. Chris has a masters degree in spiritual formation from Richmont Graduate University and he is a trained spiritual director. Previously Chris was a pastor in full time ministry for many years, but he is also a technology entrepreneur and is currently working in the technology group at Chick-fil-A.    Other Episode Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:   231 Stories Series: Faith Building Miracles with Dave Pridemore   Thank You to Our Sponsor:  Sam Leman Eureka   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   **Transcription**   Music: (0:00 – 0:09)   Laura Dugger: (0:10 - 1:36) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Duggar, and I'm so glad you're here.    The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka.   Owned and operated by the Birchie family, Sam Leman and Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over Central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at samlemanchevy.com.    Chris Allen is my guest today.   He has a master's degree in spiritual formation from Richmond Graduate University, and he's also a trained spiritual director. Previously, Chris was in full-time ministry as a pastor for many years, but he's also a technology entrepreneur, and currently he's working in the technology group at Chick-fil-A. Chris and my husband, Mark, actually go way back, so I've also invited Mark to come along with me today to interview Chris as we ask him more about cultivating wonder in our children and helping them to understand how to hear from God so that they can enjoy a conversational relationship with the Lord.   Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Mark, and Chris.   Mark Dugger: (1:38 - 1:39) Hey, thanks. Great to be here.    Chris Allen: (1:39 – 1:41) Yeah, it's great to be here.   Laura Dugger: (1:42 - 1:48) Well, I just want to start off and have both of you just take us back to how you two initially met.   Chris Allen: (1:49 - 2:20) Oh, gosh, that's dangerous, Laura. Are you sure you want to do that? Well, Mark and I met in, I think it was fourth grade. But I've kind of known for not having the best memory, so I could have that off.   Maybe Mark will correct me, but yeah, starting somewhere in maybe sixth grade, we started kind of being pretty close and spent a lot, a lot of years together through middle school and high school and into adulthood, so it's been a while. Yeah, Mark?   Mark Dugger: (2:20 - 2:32) I'm pretty sure we were in the nursery together at church growing up, so clearly you meant more to me than I meant to you. I think is what it's coming down to, but that's okay.   Chris Allen: (2:33 - 2:38) I know that's been a theme in our relationship, but you are very important to me, Mark.   Mark Dugger: (2:39 - 2:58) No, I just remember a mutual friend of ours moved away, and I think that was the catalyst for us starting to hang out. You lived right behind him. I would go to his house all the time, and then when he moved away, that was kind of the catalyst for us to start hanging out, and then I feel like we were pretty much inseparable from then on.   Chris Allen: (2:59 - 3:07) See, it's always good to have at least someone who remembers, but I do know that you're important to me today.   Mark Dugger: (3:08 - 3:10) Well, thank you, Chris.   Laura Dugger: (3:11 - 3:34) Well, and it's been awesome just to hear the stories of growing up together and being close through all the years, but you guys also had so many unique opportunities. As I hear how both of you had a faith at a reasonably young age, so I'd love to hear from both of you, what were some of your experiences through those formative years that grew your faith?   Chris Allen: (3:39 - 5:27) Yeah. Looking back on those years is kind of interesting for me. I became captivated by Jesus around the age of 13, and it really kind of consumed my time, at least mostly, and not because I needed to or had to.   It was I wanted to. In our church community, mostly our youth group, just kind of became honestly where I spent most of my time. Mark and I kind of experienced that together. So, I think we had a lot of time there.   We had a really tight-knit community. And then the other big thing was pretty early, we both kind of got invited into participating in God's work in different ways. We would lead things at our youth group.   We started leading things. Other youth groups started having us come in, and we had a worship band, and we would facilitate study and some teaching. But looking back at that, I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe they let me lead anything.   And so, it really, for me, illuminates how God has chosen to work in our lives. He invites us to participate in His kingdom. There is no qualification for that.   It's just as we are. And then He uses our participation not only to create fruit, like others are impacted by it, but He also shapes us in the process. And so, I think that's always true.   It's true today of all of us, but I can see it a little bit more clearly when I look back at that season. Yeah.   Mark Dugger: (5:29 - 6:20) Well, Chris, you glossed over the fact about talking about the praise band that we were part of and how I was really the core being the manager, aka sound manager. It was awful. I was literally there with no musical inclination whatsoever, and I was only there by association because you guys were awesome musicians, leading worship in incredible ways.   And I was the tagalong who we would do sound checks, and you would be like, “hey, Mark, can you turn up the left monitor? No, no, no, no, not that one. The other monitor. No, wait, no. You know what? I'm just going to come back and just do it for you.”   And so really, I was the glue that held everyone together. You didn't really talk about that part.   Chris Allen: (6:21 - 6:51) Yeah. I'm so glad you brought it up, Mark. Yeah, there was a lot of trips running from the stage to the soundboard to do the thing I was trying to get Mark to do.   But no, Mark, you were incredibly supportive in those years. All that was accurate, except for the amazing musician part. We maybe could say that about him, but for me, I think I knew just enough to maybe get through the song.   Mark Dugger: (6:52 - 8:45) Well, I was going to say, in all seriousness, there was one particular retreat I remember specifically, and you let me do the closing message at the very end, and it was going to be on the Prodigal Son. And I remember being like, this is one of those cool experiences that's still surreal to me that came in. I felt like I was kind of the closing deal. And so, I remember there being a lot of pride involved in that.   And I remember hearing about the Prodigal Son and knowing that story really well. And I came in just thinking, all right, I'm just going to just bring it and it's going to be amazing. And all of these kids are going to come and know the Lord.   And I remember even in my arrogance and pride, God still shined through. And I remember getting off that stage when I was about to walk off. I remember just, I even like forgot my words at one point and walked off the stage.   And it was absolutely, I felt embarrassed, and I felt like I had just failed God through my pride and arrogance. And then all of a sudden, you came in and kind of rescued this amazing moment and really closed out that message. And I'll just never forget how shaping that was for me, that seeing even in spite of arrogance and pride and fault and sin of my own, that God can still use those things for His good.   And I just remember that being such a shaping moment for me. And really just, I think it further grew our friendship just to see, you just kind of pick me up in that way and answer God's call and have the courage just to kind of lead through it there. So, I just remember that being just a profound moment in my faith and growth.   Chris Allen: (8:47 - 9:01) Yeah. Well, that's a great example of just the kinds of things we got to experience at that age. And I think it was really formative for both of us to get to do that in middle school and high school years.   Laura Dugger: (9:03 - 9:28) And I've just gotten to know this over the years, hearing all of these stories of the two of you and Adam Johnson, who was part of the band. And it's incredible to be so close in friendship still, all three of you, and now they're awesome wives. And so, switching gears though, from the past now, Chris, can you catch us up on your current life stage with your family as well?   Chris Allen: (9:29 - 10:34) Well, the biggest news is we just got a new pup. I don't know if you can hear him barking in the background, but Walt is our newest member. He's a little Shih poos.   So, he is a fluffy monster, which is wonderful when you're petting him, not so great when you have to pay for the grooming. But it's actually, it's been really good. We've talked about getting a dog for a lot of years, and our kids are just at the perfect season to soak it up.   So, we have three kids, 11, 9, and 6 (Ryan, Ramsey and Harvey) and my wife, Rachel. We are coming up on 16 years of marriage here this fall. So yeah, that's the season we're in.   We're having a lot of fun. It's like, you know, people keep telling me like, you're in the golden years. And I feel like we're actually experiencing it and enjoying it for the most part.   Of course, there's always, always the things. But yes, that's where we are.   Mark Dugger: (10:35 - 11:23) So, I want to go back here recently. We were on a drive down to Atlanta, and our kids love their phone conversations with Uncle Chris on the way down. And I just remember one specific instance where we were talking to you and asking you about this experience you had to, you were asked to lead a retreat for Ryan's school.   And we were just blown away by what you were learning, what you were experiencing, and then especially how you talked about growing in faith and really building a life of relationship with God and your kids. So, do you mind kind of just sharing us a little synopsis of that talk and what that looked like?   Chris Allen: (11:25 - 19:12) Yes, I'd be happy to. But first, I feel like the audience should know that most of my calls with your girls in the van are Uncle Chris trying to sell them a pizza or order a pizza with random things on it or making up like random songs or being a random character. So, it's mostly joking conversation.   And I'm not actually their uncle. We've just given me that title because we're close. But yeah, that's most of our conversations.   But yeah, I got invited to be the speaker at the fifth-grade retreat for my son's class. So, it was like a three-day retreat for their grade at his school. And as I was wrestling with like, okay, well, what, you know, what am I going to share?   I don't do that sort of thing that often. So, I'm usually excited when I get the opportunity to, but was just kind of sorting out, all right, what, like, God, what do you want to share with them? And this thought, actually, I should say, this was planned way in advance, and like, like, six to eight months in advance.   And it was kind of like in the back of my mind for a lot of months. And I had nothing like I had no clarity about what I was gonna talk about. And of course, you know, as you get closer and closer, you know, it starts to like, be a little bit more on your mind.   But I kept coming back to this thought of like, no, like, you know, God will bring clarity when he's ready. And trying to hold on to that thought. And then as we got like two weeks out, this thought just came, it was like, what if they began a conversational life with God at fifth grade?   Like, I've been working on this project that's kind of about how to help adults develop a conversational life with God. And before this moment, like I had not put these two opportunities together. But once that thought came, like, it just lit me up.   Because obviously, I have three kids that are kind of in that stage. And, you know, we're constantly pursuing them spiritually and trying to help them explore who God is. But that's not necessarily easy.   And obviously, trying to help them develop their own life with God, which is not easy, you know, they're kids, and they see things differently. And so for me, it was like, wow, what if they started now? You know, for adults, I think it's really hard.   Like prayer can mean a lot of things. I think most adults feel like prayer or conversation with God is somewhat hard. It's something they struggle with, typically something they want more of, but maybe don't feel super successful in.   So, the thought was, you know if you start in fifth grade, what would that change? Um, so I kind of went on a journey of trying to think about how could I help them? How could I help them explore this?   How could I help them start a conversational life with God? And that that kind of ended up being, you know, what the series of talks that I gave throughout the retreat were. So, my second thing was around like, if you want to hear him, you've got to cultivate wonder, which I'll come back to in just a second.   And then my third thing is, was teaching them to pay attention to their thought life, which we can dive into more. But the wonder piece, it may not be obvious, like why wonder, you know, why is that important? Um, so let me just speak to that for a second.   So, uh, the way I like to think about wonder is if you've ever been snorkeling in like the ocean, ideally in really clear water, uh, there's this moment, like, right. So, like you go out on a boat, you get to the spot where you're going to snorkel, you've got all your gear, you get in the water. And there's this moment where you're, you're about to go underwater, but before you do your head's still above the water, right.   And in this moment, you're like so close to beginning to see this whole new world that's underneath the water. Uh, but for this moment, your eyeline is above the water and you're really like, that's all you see. Like you really, you really can't, like, if you look down, you just see kind of like this fuzzy picture, right.   This distorted kind of water picture. Uh, but you can see for miles and miles across the top of the water, you see the sky, like there's so much above the water that you can see. Right.   And then you put your goggles on, and you drop your head down like six inches. And all of a sudden there's this whole other world, uh, that you really didn't have access to before that moment, right. You couldn't really see what was going on down there until you put your head under the water.   Uh, but then all of a sudden you start to see, you know, depths of the ocean. Uh, you know, reefs, all these, you know, different colors, all these different fish, wildlife, you know. Um, and then the same is kind of true when you're underwater. Like if you go underwater and look up, you can like see a vague color of the sky, but it's kind of all distorted.   So, I like this analogy because it kind of, it's like you almost have like two totally separate kingdoms, right? Like the underwater world and the above water world, they are right next to each other. There is this point at which they touch, but they operate so differently.   Like, you know, everything underwater is different, right? You can't breathe, like oxygen is different. Uh, you know, uh, the way you move is different.   You got to swim, you can't walk. Like the way things work underwater is different than how they work out of water. And I think the kingdom of God in the kingdom of earth is kind of similar.   Like there is a threshold at which they touch, but they, they operate so differently. Like the kingdom of God is just different. It's different than what we know in the kingdom of earth.   So essentially, uh, I kind of see like all of life is us, you know, trying to, or working towards participating with God in the kingdom. His kingdom, uh, while we are operating here on earth and the kingdom of earth. Um, and so wonder for me is, is like the goggles, uh, that help us move back and forth between kingdom of earth and kingdom of God. Uh, like when you put the goggles on, you know, you can, you can open your eyes underwater depending on the water, uh, but you can see so much better with, with goggles.   And so, um, wonder for me is like, is the vehicle that helps me move towards the kingdom of God. So, um, I'll, I'll, I'll share more about kind of like how I talked with the kids about that, but God speaks to his kids. If you want to hear them cultivate wonder.   And then lastly, pay attention to your thoughts. Uh, so that's, that's kind of what we talked about.   Laura Dugger: (19:14 - 21:09) And now a brief message from our sponsor. Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka has been owned and operated by the Birchie family for over 25 years. A lot has changed in the car business since Sam and Steven's grandfather, Sam Leman opened his first Chevrolet dealership over 55 years ago.   If you visit their dealership today, though, you'll find that not everything has changed. They still operate their dealership like their grandfather did with honesty and integrity. Sam and Steven understand that you have many different choices in where you buy or service your vehicle.   This is why they do everything they can to make the car buying process as easy and hassle-free as possible. They are thankful for the many lasting friendships that began with a simple welcome to Sam Leman's. Their customers keep coming back because they experienced something different.   I've known Sam and Steven and their wives my entire life and I can vouch for their character and integrity, which makes it easy to highly recommend you to check them out today. Your car buying process doesn't have to be something you dread. So come see for yourself at Sam Leman Chevrolet and Eureka.   Sam and Steven would love to see you and they appreciate your business. Learn more at their website, samlemanchevy.com or visit them on Facebook by searching for Sam Leman Eureka. You can also call them at 309-467-2351.   Thanks for your sponsorship.    Well, and I love all of those. So let's just slow it down and kind of go through all three, beginning with that first statement that you make that God speaks to his kids.   And from previous conversations, I know that Mark and I agree with you on that, but not everybody does. Even those who are in the faith community may not agree that God is still speaking to his children. And so, what would you say is the basis for your belief on that?   Chris Allen: (21:11 - 23:18) Yeah, that's a big question. Well, you know, I think, I think it's pretty clear in scripture. Like, you know, we have in John 10 where he says, “I'm the good shepherd.   I know my sheep and my sheep will know, they'll know my voice. They listen to me.” Like, and if you read that section, it's not only that, like, he speaks, it's that like, it almost sounds like it's easy.   Like the sheep don't have to work to know who their master is like, or the shepherd is like, they know his voice. you know, like when the shepherd calls, the sheep can instantly know if it's his voice or not. you know, quick, funny story. I wasn't planning on telling you, but my wife is an identical twin. And when we first started dating her and her twin shared a phone, a cell phone.   So we're in college, we start dating. I would call my girlfriend, not knowing if she was going to answer the phone or if her sister was going to answer the phone. And I had to know, just based on the tone of their voice, which one it was could get in big trouble if I get this wrong.   Right. So, you know, I learned, I learned her voice. Right.   And the same is true, obviously, with like our kids, like they can tell the difference between your voice and some other parents voice. Right. Did you always get it right?   Did I always get it right? There was a few times where it was a little hard. Usually a lot of times, like there was context clues, you know, like just by the way they would talk to me, but sometimes like Rebecca would answer and just say like, “Hey, and you know.” it's like, that's all I got to work with is a “Hey, you know”?   And, you know, I wasn't quite sure for a moment. So, I would ask a question to get more talking going, and then I would figure out who this was. So, yeah.   Mark Dugger: (23:19 - 23:21) That's good. Sorry, I derailed you there.   Laura Dugger: (23:22 - 23:44) I'll bring us back because I think that's so profound, even how you said context clues. So, I'll bring it back. You were talking first, John 10:14.   “I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me”. And then also a few verses later in 27, where he says, “my sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me.”   Chris Allen: (23:47 - 25:06) Yeah, I think. And then I think also like Jesus modeled this throughout his whole life. Like we would, you know, I and the Father are one, He would often retreat for time with the Father.   He seemed very clear on what the Father was saying. I mean, I realized there's a divinity gap between looking at how Jesus operated and maybe how we are. But then He also says, “like, it's better for Me to leave because I'm going to send my Helper, the Holy Spirit.”   And I think we see in that language, an even more intimate relationship. Like Jesus is in, like God is in us, you know? So, I don't think like when I study scripture, I don't think God intended for it to be hard for us to hear Him.   Which is why, you know, I'm interested in this topic. And as a lot of people that I interact, do struggle with that, and I struggle with that in my own life. I don't want to just accept that, you know?   So that's kind of what motivates me in this topic. It gets me excited to talk about it.   Mark Dugger: (25:09 - 25:12) That's cool. You have something else you wanted to say?   Chris Allen: (25:13 - 31:40) Well, I was kind of going back to the retreat. So, I think, you know, one of the biggest hurdles when I was in with the kids, as well as I think with us, even as adults, is first just acknowledging that we don't notice everything. Like there's things happening around us that we just simply don't notice.   If you're like me, like I feel like I'm fairly observant. And I do notice a lot of things. And I typically kind of feel like I'm right about things, you know, or I feel like my take is kind of on point.   It can be hard to admit this, but the reality is like there's so much happening around us that we actually don't notice. So, when I was talking to the kids, this was like the first thing that I tried to establish. So, I had this opening slide that said, if you're reading this, put your finger on your nose.   And so, as I come up to talk, I mean, I'm just introducing myself for the first time. Hey, everyone, I'm so glad to be here. My name is Chris. Mr. Chris, you know, and I'm starting to talk to them, you know, leading into our time together. The whole time behind me is this slide. If you're reading this, put your finger on your nose. And so, as I'm talking, you know, certain kids started putting their finger on their nose, but as I went on for like five or 10 minutes, right.   And in the end, you know, maybe a third of them had their finger on their nose. And so, I was like, you know, the first thing I want to establish with us together is an idea that there's things happening around you that you do not notice. And to convince you that that is true.   I want you to look around and notice your friends who have their finger on their nose. And the reason is because of the slide behind me that you haven't noticed yet. Right.   And so, it was a really fun way just to help them go like, oh, interesting. I guess I don't notice everything. And then we kind of moved to this idea of taking on a posture of curiosity.   And so, I was like, I want you to imagine that we or I was like, does anybody know a name of a famous detective? You know, they're shouting out names and stuff. So, we landed on Sherlock Holmes.   OK, well, Sherlock Holmes was here in the room with us, and he was trying to solve a mystery. What do you think he would do? And, you know, hands start going up.   He'd look for clues. Like, yeah, that's right. He'd look around.   You know, he's trying to figure out clues to solve the mystery. Right. And so, cultivating this posture of curiosity of like, OK, if things are happening around me that I don't notice.   And I want to notice them, like, what would that look like? I've got to start getting curious about my life, about the things that are already in it. And why are they there?   And so that's really kind of at the root of this idea of cultivating wonder is looking at your life and the things that are already in it and wondering about them. I'll give you an example. Our oldest, Ryan, is going into middle school, a transition which there's been a little bit of energy about in our house.   But near the end of fifth grade, Ryan was a little bit unsure what school he wanted to go to. He wasn't sure if he wanted the school that they are in which goes K through 12. So, he had the option of staying there.   But he also had the option of potentially moving to a different school. And he had some friends that are going to move. And that was kind of a catalyst for a lot of the conversation.   So, for a lot of that time, you know, just to be transparent, there was a lot of worry and anxiety as we were trying to discern, like, which school should he go to? And, you know, you've got layers that you've got my take on, you've got Rachel's take on it, you've got Ryan's take on it, right? And all of course, his parents, like, you know, we don't want to just make a call and force him, you know. We really want him to be bought in.   And at the same time, we have a sense of what we think. And so for a while, we were just kind of doing what I call wandering. Wwe were just wandering around within this topic, like, you know, Rachel would feel anxious about certain things, I would feel certain things, you know, Ryan's feeling certain things. And we're just kind of ping ponging around, wandering around.   And then one day, it finally started to shift towards wonder for me. And it was just like, you know, I wonder what God is up to in Ryan's life. Like, I wonder what God has in mind for Ryan, as he's moving into middle school.   I wonder which environment might be best for him, you know, to shape him in this next season. And instead of like latching on to the pieces that we're maybe concerned about and obsessing about those or thinking about those, just moving towards wonder, even though it doesn't solve anything, it doesn't change anything, like the situation is still the same. But it begins to change how I hold that thing.   And before I know it, I am interacting with my Father God about this thing that I was just worried about. And so, it's like this transformation of taking the, because here's the thing, this thing is already happening in my life. I'm already spending energy on it.   Like, why not let it be the catalyst for how I'm going to interact with God? And so cultivating wonder, curiosity, why is this happening? What is God up to?   As I mentioned already, for me, it's kind of been the gateway for me to put on goggles and to begin to see more of why things might be happening. Or what God's up to and just hold them differently than I was previously.   Mark Dugger: (31:40 - 31:55) So, I love this topic and thinking about it. How can we then disciple our children to listen to God and know for themselves, like, and recognize when they're actually hearing from the Holy Spirit?   Chris Allen: (31:56 - 39:42) Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, I don't think there's a perfect formula.   I think it's something we just cultivate. Some of that's going to depend on the individual. I think each child's going to be a little bit different, but I think this idea of starting to notice things is a key one and just helping them think about or acknowledge that they're not going to see everything.   Another little tool that I use with the students was those magic eye things. I don't know if you remember this from our childhood, but they had books and posters with these pictures of, like, when you look at it from a distance, it's just like a lot of little random things or like a confusing drawing at most. But if you look at it a certain way, right, you start to see this picture within the picture.   Right. And so, we used that. It was awesome.   We had like a contest to see who could see it first and they got prizes and stuff. But you know, it's basically like we have to fix our eyes. Right.   We have to learn how to see the unseen, essentially, in the same way. I mean, those posters are actually a little tricky for a lot of people. Like if you don't see it, you don't see it.   Like, you know, you have to learn a certain like once you get the hang of it and you position yourself in relationship to it just right. Right. You can start to see like the horse or whatever jump off the page.   But, you know, learning to see what is unseen is not easy. But here's the really, really cool part that I think is really important for kids. It's like God made them for this.   And, you know, not just kids like us to like God made us for this. Your mind is already doing the things that is needed for this. And so, at the retreat to help them like understand what I mean by this, I basically wanted to show them all the things that they already know that they never learned.   And you may not know what I mean by that, but basically we played this game where I had all these logos from different famous brands. But I intentionally chose brands that were like adult brands, like insurance, Allstate, you know, State Farm. And so, we had their slogans or their logos in some cases, and they had to guess what it was.   They knew them all. And it's like, you know, I would make jokes, of course, in between they get off. They got Allstate.   And I'm like, I would go up to the kids who guessed it right. I'd be like, so tell me, do you have auto insurance with Allstate? Or is it home insurance?   What is what's your coverage amount? You know, what is your policy like? Just to drive home the point, it's like, you know, they're not a customer.   There's no reason they should know who Allstate is. But they are watching TV, they're driving around, they're doing different things in life. And of course, they have absorbed, their mind has learned what Allstate is without them even trying, right.   And so, your mind is doing a lot of this work already. It's already noticing everything around you. It's already learning and processing all this information.   Dallas Willard talks about kind of the role of the mind. A lot of times, we think of the mind as a generator of thoughts. And this is a pretty big position or adjustment that I think is important.   But instead of viewing the mind as a generator of thoughts, viewing it more as a processor of thoughts. Because reality is like, you didn't make up Allstate, you didn't make up the brand, the kid didn't make up the brand. You just processed it, you know, and that's what your mind is doing with most information.   And so when we start to view the mind as a processor, you now have a category for okay, there's all these other things that are basically submitting things to our minds. And you know, that's all the things we've been talking about, right? That's billboards, that's TV, that's us, like we're submitting thoughts to our kids' minds.   But you know, everything they read, everything they look, everything around them is constantly submitting thoughts to their minds. And their mind is just processing away. But it does it all automatically, like that's what the mind was made for.   So, for me, the kind of good news in all this, even though I think some of these thoughts can sound kind of foreign, or maybe hard to go figure out, it really is how we were designed. Like it's, you know, God designed our minds to interact with him. He designed our minds to be able to recognize thoughts that are coming from him.   So, when we shift the mind to a processor, really, that point is just about learning to notice those thoughts, okay, as they come in, right? And as you start to notice them, you can notice, you know, kind of the nature of them or the characteristic of them. And God, the thoughts that God might be presenting to your mind versus the thoughts that other sources might be presenting to your mind, over time starts to become clearer and clearer and clearer.   So maybe just like a practical example would be that, like, sometimes when we're processing things with our kids, if they're feeling a certain way, I might ask them, like, hey, what are you thinking about this? Or what's the most, like, what's the last thought you had about this? And it's like, oh, I'm worried, you know, I was thinking about, you know, my buddy, how he won't like this thing, you know. And it's like, oh, okay, that's why you don't want to go, you know, to that place, because your buddy doesn't like it. You know, it's like, but oftentimes, I will go to the, I'll go to thoughts, and ask them about their thoughts, what's the most recent thought to understand what emotions might be happening now. But I think even just talking about thoughts as a thing, right?   Like, what thought did you have, is really helpful to start, because a lot of times, I think the default is we kind of like assume we are our thoughts, we are one with our thoughts. And this can get really dangerous. I think, especially for young men, but really for all of us, because we have a lot of thoughts that are not honoring to God or to each other, right?   And so, if those are me, then that says a lot about who I am, right? So separating ourselves from our thoughts, positioning the mind as the processor of thoughts, not only gives room for the idea that God is presenting thoughts to our minds, but it also gives room for the idea that the enemy or the world or these other things are presenting thoughts to our minds. So just because we might have that thought doesn't mean it's us, which is a big thing as well.   Laura Dugger: (39:43 - 40:52) I love that because, okay, so going back to that first point, so God speaks to His children, and I think it's helpful for me just to have that articulated. That has been my experience, that one of the ways God speaks to me is through my thoughts, and so sharing that with our children as well. And something, when I'm verbally processing then later, if I'm wondering and I'm questioning, where did this thought come from?   Where did this originate? Mark's question to me will always be, whose voice is that? And I think it's another way of what you're saying, because it could be culture, it could be God, it could be the enemy's voice, and that it is through our thoughts.   But then if we are now, you've recommended also thinking about what our thoughts are. So, thinking about our thinking and pursuing that listening stance. So that kind of leads into the next point where you share that you say, if you want to hear Him, cultivate wonder.   So, can you just elaborate on that?   Chris Allen: (40:55 - 45:09) Yes. So well, let me also mention, so I mentioned Dallas Willard, he has like a quote that I really love around this. And I'll just go ahead and say it for those that might be thinking it, like, did you really present all this to kids?   Yes, I did. I wrestled so much going into this with like, this is too much, like it's too deep, it's too much content. I almost changed a lot of the talk, like literally like five minutes before it.   But I kind of landed on this, you know what, and there was a lot of adults in the room, it wasn't aimed at them, but it was just like, my job is to just throw it out there. And like, if one kid just grabs onto something, you know, so yes, I did. I did give this to kids, but I realized it's a lot.   So, but Willard says, he says, generally, it is much more important to cultivate the quiet inward space of a constant listening than to always be approaching God for specific direction. And he goes on to say, in the still small voice of God, we are given a message that bears the stamp of his personality quite clearly. And in a way, we will learn to recognize it.   How the message comes, this is kind of the biggest part right here: how the message comes is diminished almost to the vanishing point, taking the form of thoughts that are our thoughts, though these thoughts are not from us. And so, when I first read this, it was like, oh my gosh, like, I think I've experienced that. But he is putting words to something I, you know, maybe hadn't fully acknowledged that like, this, this is God speaking to me, you know. So, I think a lot of times we, we write off our thoughts as just like, oh, it's just my lunch, you know, or whatever. But I, I really believe, and Willard, you know, believes that one of the primary ways that God speaks to his people, and when we say children, I don't mean children in this case, not like the age of someone, but anyone, um, any person, like, this is a, at least a huge part of how God speaks to them is, is through their thought life.   And so, for me, like, as I, as I've started to walk in this, and, um, take, pay more attention to my thoughts, and then actually, like, hold them like, okay, well, what if this was God speaking? You know, it's, it's changed my personal interaction with God, um, for sure. So, I think for most people, if you're not already practicing this, it can feel inaccessible.   It can feel hard. It's like, oh my gosh, like, are you telling me that I have, like, I have to change everything. Like, I have to start recognizing all my, like, if you're not already doing that, um, and I think that's where cultivate wonder comes in. Is moving towards just a posture of curiosity, moving towards a posture of wonder, of, um, when you start to notice a thought, like, just hold it out there.   It's like, oh, that's interesting. I just had that thought. Hmm.   And you just think about it. You just wonder about it, right? You don't really have to do anything.   Like in the beginning of this, you don't have to do anything with it. Like, just look at it, hold it, name it, and just wonder about it. Like, I think that is the first step.   And so, I think there's little ways we can help our kids with that, right? Just as we're helping them process things, as we're talking through things, um, we can call out what we think we hear them say, you know, and just say, Hey, it sounds like you had this thought. Is that right?   You know? Um, and just the way we, you know, they can pick things up quickly. So, the way that we teach them to process what they're thinking about, um, is a huge gift to them.   If we can help them name their thoughts and hold them out.   Laura Dugger: (45:09 - 47:07) When was the first time you listened to an episode of The Savvy Sauce? How did you hear about our podcast? Did a friend share it with you?   Will you be willing to be that friend now and text five other friends or post on your socials, anything about The Savvy Sauce that you love? If you share your favorite episodes, that is how we continue to expand our reach and get the good news of Jesus Christ in more ears across the world. So, we need your help.   Another way to help us grow is to leave a five-star review on Apple podcasts. Each of these suggestions will cost you less than a minute, but it will be a great benefit to us. Thank you so much for being willing to be generous with your time and share. We appreciate you.    Well, and just want to speak to some of this as well. So, when you were sharing about children, meaning more than actual age children, I was thinking back.   Our oldest daughter, Selah was baptized a couple of years ago and a scripture that was really meaningful to her in that process as she was writing out her testimony and just pondering the work that God had done in her life. She really was impacted by a verse I'd love to read because that's another sure way that God does speak to us is through the word of God. So, the Bible, that's always a way that we can hear from Him.   But this verse is John 8:47, and it says, “Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”   Chris Allen: (47:07 - 50:09) Well,  I think the emphasis that I would point out on that is that it's not that God is not speaking.   It's the reason you don't hear. So, I believe God's pursuing people even that aren't following Him. And even in our case, I think God pursues us even in our disobedience.   But what shifts is our ability to hear. And so, it's like we're tuning in, and that invitation exists for, I think, for all people. It's the opportunity to just tune in more to what God is up to, what He's saying, just by looking at what He's already doing in your life, what's already happening.   Just look around, pay attention, start to notice, start to name it. And like I was saying, if this feels overwhelming, which I think it definitely can, the beautiful thing is we were made for this. Our mind was made to work this way.   It's how God designed it. And one of the final ways that I pushed this across the finish line with the kids was the final logo that I had was Nike. And of course, not only did every kid in the room know the answer to what the brand was, half of them were wearing it.   But if you look back in your life, and this is what I had them do. It's like there's some moment in your life where you were not aware of Nike. You probably were already wearing it, the toddler walking around in it or something. It's all around you.   It's everywhere. Everybody else is wearing it too. You've seen tons of ads and advertisements.   It's everywhere. Yet there was some moment where you didn't know what it was. If you saw the logo, you'd be like, I don't know what that is.   And then at some point you cross this threshold where it's like all of a sudden you learn like, oh, that's Nike. And so, if you could pinpoint that moment in a kid's life, it's like in that moment, you go from like, I don't know, to like, Nike. Well, Nike didn't all of a sudden exist in that moment.   It was no more present than it was before. It was always around you. It was always active.   It was always everywhere. The only thing that changed in that moment is you became aware of it. And that's how I like to think about like what God is up to in our lives.   He is active. He's all over it. He is in your every day and every situation that we're in.   And He is inviting us to participate with Him, to notice Him, to talk with Him about it and to interact with Him through those things. But we just have to become aware of Him. And for me, I think wonder is the thing that helps me shift in that direction, just cultivating wonder.   Mark Dugger: (50:11 - 50:31) That's awesome. So you talked about with your kids, asking them and follow up questions about their thoughts. But is there any other practical ways you think about bringing this to life with our kids to help them kind of shape some of this line of thinking?   Chris Allen: (50:34 - 52:38) Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, the other kind of analogy that I've used with my kids as well is where's Waldo? So, my spiritual director, Jeannie Hoover, who's amazing, who lives in Illinois as well, she actually was the one who used this analogy in our conversations first.   But you know, where's Waldo's fun? You get the book or the posters and you're looking for Waldo, right? But you have no chance of finding him.   First, you can't find Waldo unless one, you believe he exists. Two, you know what he looks like. And three, you look for him.   And so that's kind of the starting point. I think an easy starting point with kids, plus you can use the Waldo book and they love it. But they have to believe God exists.   They have to know what He looks like, and they got to start looking for Him. Obviously, we can play a very tangible role in helping them kind of learn what He looks like and helping them look for Him. I think one easy way is like, you know, some kind of daily routine, as maybe you're putting them to bed or debriefing the day.   Or you might ask a simple question like, you know, did you notice God anywhere today? Or was there anything that happened in your life today, you know, where you noticed God? Or you can also go, I think a lot of times we can find Him in the things that we're struggling with.   So, is there anything that happened today that hurt you or didn't sit well with you? But as you help them process that, right, you're kind of looking for where is God in the story? What is he up to?   And helping them connect those dots.   Mark Dugger: (52:40 - 52:41) Oh, go ahead.   Laura Dugger: (52:41 - 52:44) Oh, you go first. I wonder if we're on the same thought.   Mark Dugger: (52:44 - 54:00) I was thinking, I was recently, this is helpful for me personally, but I was recently frustrated about a day or something that happened recently. And I was just, you know, going through the iterations of why this thing caused me frustration. And, you know, it caused me to take out frustration on others that were around me and impacted others.   And then my friend was just casually kind of listening to me and just said, what do you think God's calling you to do in the midst of this? And it was just such a simple yet profound question that I hadn't even considered. Like I wasn't even thinking about God being active and involved in this frustration that was going on in my life because I was so consumed by it.   But yet when I take that moment, I think him asking that question to me, helped me step back out kind of that 10,000 foot view and just say, huh, what, where is God right now in this process? And what is he potentially trying to show me in the midst of this frustration? And I think that's something that our kids can really understand too.   They can really grasp onto that concept. So, I think that's been a helpful one for me.   Laura Dugger: (54:00 - 54:58) You're both stirring all these ideas because I also think something that Mark's started recently on a Sunday on Sabbath, he loves to go around the table with our kids. And the youngest is five, as you know, Chris, and he'll ask all of us, where did you see God at work in your life this week? And they are able from a young age to think back on their life.   And I think that God does manifest himself to them. But then whether this is a question then for children or adults or everyone, even a conversation that Mark and I have had with you and Rachel before, where when you're going back to something that's happened in the past, asking yourself of that situation, if I go back to that scene in my mind, where was Jesus within that? And that's a pretty profound experience, I would say as well.   Chris Allen: (54:59 - 56:56) Yeah. Well, I think another something that I would encourage people to think about is this is not something that we have to figure out. That's really God's role is to teach us how to do this.   I think throughout scripture, the posture of curiosity or wonder is encouraged. Just ask, just seek, just knock. And you will find it.   The door will be open to you. And so, I don't think God asks us to figure out how to hear His voice or figure out how He speaks. I think if we come with just a posture of curiosity, which honestly, even that alone takes a little bit of work on our side, right?   But if we just cultivate some curiosity about what he's up to, my experience has been that you will start to notice. If you just focus on noticing and being curious, you will start to notice Him. I think sometimes we focus on the outcome.   We think the intimacy, like if I could hear God well, if I had a conversational life with God, I would experience intimacy with Him, right? But I think the truer thing is that a lot of the intimacy is in the learning. It's in the process.   We just show up, we just cultivate curiosity. And as God teaches us, a lot of the intimacy comes out of the teaching. Like, oh my gosh, that was God.   I just saw Him in a way I hadn't before. And so I think hopefully it takes some of the pressure off and allows us just to start to look for Him.   Mark Dugger: (56:57 - 57:13) Yeah. This conversation, I think, has been so helpful just to begin the process of thinking about this. Is there anything else that you want to add or help this message stick or bring home deep within us?   Chris Allen: (57:16 - 58:07) I think I would just say, if you're someone who maybe is not sure that God is speaking, I would just challenge you to pretend that He is. Just try it. Just start looking around, start noticing, and just see what happens.   In my experience, God is fully capable of making Himself known to us. If we just take a step in his direction with curiosity or wonder, He will reveal himself to you. He'll start showing you things.   And it's not constant, right? But over time, your faith will grow that He is speaking, that He does speak, and it will start to transform how you interact with Him.   Laura Dugger: (58:10 - 58:31) I love it. And I'm going to kind of summarize. Okay, so God speaks to his kids.   We get to participate and cultivate wonder. And a practical thing was to pay attention to our thoughts. With all of this too, Chris, you've alluded to a project.   Do you want to share any more information about that?   Chris Allen: (58:31 - 59:54) Oh, man. Yeah. So yeah, I've been working on a book for about a year and a half now with my spiritual director, Jamie, who I mentioned, really for adults about wonder.   I think we activate and use wonder a lot as kids, especially when we were kids. I think kids are better, more naturally jumping into wonder. The pool of life for adults is away from wonder.   It's towards the other side of the brain. It's towards be productive, be on time, be on task, get it done. And the more we fill our lives up with things, which as you all, like in this season that we're in, life is very busy, wonder just so easily gets squeezed out.   And so the project I've been working on is really aimed at helping adults cultivate wonder in their life again, specifically around how they interact with God, which probably no surprise at this point in the conversation. But yeah, it's so exciting. I mean, we're down the road, things are starting to solidify, and we got a good bit of work left to do, but I'm really excited about what that will be.   Laura Dugger: (59:55 - 1:00:15) Well, then we look forward to a part two of this conversation when that's further along. We'd love to have you back, but you are already familiar that we are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, Chris, what is your Savvy Sauce?   Chris Allen: (1:00:16 - 1:00:57) Oh man, well, I think I might be a broken record on this one. So it's probably a summary statement here, but if wonder is our goggles into the kingdom, the question is how can we put them on more? And so, my encouragement is to leverage the things that are already happening in your life to help you cultivate wonder.   And obviously that's what the book is about. So hopefully maybe I can help some people do that more in specific ways once that's out, but that would be my Savvy Sauce.   Laura Dugger: (1:00:58 - 1:01:38) Love it. Well, I think Mark can share as well, but from the two of us, we just love you and Rachel, and Ryan, Ramsey and Harvey. And Mark and I are so grateful you have profoundly impacted us.   Just the friendship with you guys has been incredible. And also spiritually, we've learned so much from you and hopefully sharpened one another. And I appreciate the impact that the two of you have had on each other spiritually as well.   And I get to enjoy sweet fruit from your amazing and godly friendship. So, thank you for all you shared today. Thank you for your friendship.   And thank you for being our guest.   Chris Allen: (1:01:40 - 1:01:42) You're very welcome. Thanks for having me on.   Mark Dugger: (1:01:43 - 1:03:04) Yeah, I was just gonna say thanks. You know, friendship is pretty rare. And it's pretty remarkable just to think about all we've been through together.   But yet, Laura summarized it so well, but you've had such a profound impact on me, even in those years, you know, picking me up in high school ministry when we were doing those, those kinds of things together. And then we shared a mentor with Dave Pridemore, who's actually been a previous guest here on The Savvy Sauce. And just learning more about who we are in Christ.   And you've always been an encouragement to me. And that's just been such a blessing in my life. Just to know that there's always that constant friendship.   And no matter what goes on, no matter how, you know, being states apart, you know, sometimes we're not always talking all the time, but it's always nice to know that you, it's always the same. It's like we picked up right where we left off. And I think that's, that's deeper than just the friendship, but it's the bond that we have in Christ.   And that's, you know, you've challenged me in this way, just to think about wonder, this isn't something that comes to me naturally. And so I'm just very thankful for this conversation. And then just to be able to share some of the things that we've talked about privately, but be able to share with this audience today.   So thanks for doing that.   Chris Allen: (1:03:05 - 1:03:06) Absolutely.   Laura Dugger: (1:03:07 - 1:06:50) One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?   It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.   We need a savior. But God loved us so much, he made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.   That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.   We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says, “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” So, would you pray with me now?   Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life?   We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.   If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him. You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason.   We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you ready to get started? First, tell someone.   Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible.   I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ.   I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.   And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.   And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Continuing our four-part series on C4SO's founding values (Kingdom, Spirit, Formation, Mission and Sacrament), longtime friends Bishop Todd and the Rev. Patrick Wildman, Rector of one of C4SO's first churches, explore Kingdom, Mission and Spirit. The two leaders discuss their personal journeys of discovering and living out these values, the influence of Dallas Willard on [...]

Continuing our four-part series on C4SO's founding values (Kingdom, Spirit, Formation, Mission and Sacrament), longtime friends Bishop Todd and the Rev. Patrick Wildman, Rector of one of C4SO's first churches, explore Kingdom, Mission and Spirit. The two leaders discuss their personal journeys of discovering and living out these values, the influence of Dallas Willard on [...]

Nathan talks with Walter Strickland about his new book Swing Low and the way that the African American Christian experience adds crucial wisdom to living a with-God life.

Amanda Opelt talks with Nathan about finding her theological assumptions challenged during a season of deep grief. The two discuss the difference between wholeness and happiness and between goodness and prosperity in this music-filled episode. 

Description: In this second installment of our special Midlife Renaissance series, the delightful Erin Hicks Moon joins Jen and Amy for a super resonant conversation to discuss what it looks like when the faith that you grew up with bears no resemblance to your current values and what matters to you today. But Erin reassures us that if our faith looked like it did 10, 15, even 20 years ago, we would not be evolving. Erin is the host and resident bible scholar of the Faith Adjacent podcast and author of I've Got Questions: The Spiritual Practice of Having It Out with God. She's a thoughtful guide for processing our questions, curiosity, and doubt.    Women naturally come into midlife with a posture of comfort in things they are sure of and curiosity to explore the things that they aren't. There are many people searching for answers in the wilderness of faith but, as Erin reminds us, our questions can lead to a more vibrant and joyful faith. *** Segments Midlife Glowup: Trying new things Amy gives an update on her decision to go out on a limb as a newly-minted podcaster and Jen shares what it's like to date again in your fifties.  Thought-provoking Quotes: We do spiritual practices to be connected to God and I think we overcomplicate it with rigid checklists. – Erin Hicks Moon Really working through the grief, and the sadness, and anger of watching your faith be weaponized or coming from a church that has split over something really difficult, or something personal in your life, something on a world stage. I think we have to be honest in that grief. That is a really difficult thing when you're surrounded by toxic positivity in the church.Sometimes it sucks and we have to be honest about that. – Erin Hick Moon We can still have a relationship with God, we can still have faith, but it doesn't have to look the way everyone else says it should look. – Erin Hicks Moon I'm shocked when I have conversations with people who I really did not know grew up in the church and it turns out we have so many of the same beliefs; we've been evolving on parallel tracks but they just choose not to identify that way. – Amy Hardin I have never met one person who has gone through deconstruction and/or because they wanted to sin more. The overwhelming pattern is that they want to figure this out and at the end of the process, they end up with a faith that is stronger than what they began with. – Erin Hicks Moon Resources Mentioned in This Episode: I've Got Questions: The Spiritual Practice of Having It Out with God by Erin Hicks Moon I've Got Questions Guided Journal: Prompts and Practices for Rewilding Your Faith by Erin Hicks Moon  Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Anne Lamott - https://www.instagram.com/annelamott/ Bridgerton - https://www.netflix.com/title/80232398 Eugene Peterson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_H._Peterson The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth by Beth Allison Barr Pastor Trey - https://www.instagram.com/pastortrey05/ Dallas Willard - https://dwillard.org/ Guest's Links: Erin's website - https://www.erinhmoon.com/ Erin's Substack - https://erinhmoon.substack.com/ Erin's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/erinhmoon Erin's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/erin.hicks.moon Erin's Podcast - https://faithadjacent.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen's website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices