Podcasts about churches

Patrick shares how being a grandfather to 32 (and counting) shapes his understanding of the important bond between grandparents and grandchildren, weaving in personal traditions, childhood memories, and practical snack secrets involving Slim Jims and fruit snacks. He responds to callers’ stories about discipline, letting adult children develop their own parenting methods, and the surprises that come with family caregiving, while addressing everything from Mass translations to keeping faith traditions alive. Laughter, honesty, even a few debates spark throughout, as Patrick moves between heartfelt advice and the everyday realities of grandparent life. Children who have strong, consistent relationships with their grandparents often experience better emotional wellbeing (01:01) Mary - Have you ever had to correct your grandkids? For example, if they are going to hit another kid. (17:25) Steve – We, as Grandparents, cut down a Christmas tree every year and make walking sticks out of the trunk and use it for the Walk to Mary. (22:47) Cindy – It gets complicated when the grandparent is raising a grandchild. (25:25) Kathy - Why did the name of Churches in my area change? (27:43) Jessica (email) - How do you handle fights between grandchildren? (35:22) Timothy - Before a priest became a priest, is it okay if he had a girlfriend or is that a mortal sin? (36:56) Bill - Why did the Patriarchs of the Church in Jerusalem issue that statement about Christian Zionists? (42:01) Robert - You were talking about Latin translations into English. I translate the Spanish into English. (46:35)

Letting a staff member go is one of the hardest leadership moments a pastor will ever face. Churches are relational environments, and employment decisions are deeply personal. But there are times when releasing someone is the most loving, wise, and responsible step—for the staff member, for the team, and for the health of the church. In this episode, Josh and Sam talk through how to navigate this complex process with clarity, compassion, and integrity. The post How Do You Fire a Church Employee? appeared first on Church Answers.

Allie tackles the disturbing weekend incident at Cities Church in Saint Paul, Minnesota, where Black Lives Matter and anti-ICE activists stormed a worship service, shouting obscenities, terrorizing families, and disrupting prayer — while the intrusion was livestreamed and covered by Don Lemon, who was invited and knew about the planned protest. She exposes the manufactured outrage, the double standards in media narratives, and the real agenda: using toxic empathy to shield criminals, some of whom are convicted child sex offenders, while demonizing law enforcement and Christians. Allie also addresses Russell Moore's interpretation of Romans 13 and brings biblical clarity to the matter. And lastly, she responds to James Talarico's New York Times interview, criticizing his terminology of "progressive Christianity" that distorts biblical teachings on abortion, homosexuality, and government welfare. A sobering call to discern truth, reject selective empathy, and stand firm for order, sovereignty, and the gospel. Buy Allie's book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.toxicempathy.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Timecodes: (00:00) Intro (03:30) Minnesota Church Protest (14:00) Left-Wing Mobs (21:00) Who Organizes These Protests? (30:55) Don Lemon (42:00) Who Is ICE Trying to Detain? (51:40) Russell Moore & Romans 13 (01:04:45) Response to James Talarico --- Today's Sponsors: Good Ranchers | To support a company that's committed to honoring America's past, present, and future, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠GoodRanchers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today. And if you subscribe to any Good Ranchers box of 100% American meat, you'll save up to $500 a year! Plus, if you use the code ALLIE, you'll get an additional $25 off your first order. We Heart Nutrition | Check out We Heart Nutrition at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WeHeartNutrition.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use the code ALLIE for 20% off. Re-Prev | Re-Prev supports your body in shifting out of fight-or-flight mode to a relaxed state of calm. Go to ⁠WholesomeIsBetter.com⁠ and use discount code ALLIE at checkout for 20% off your order.   Paleovalley | Small American farms. Regenerative agriculture. Transparency in food. When you choose Paleovalley, you're not just snacking — you're making a statement. Right now, you can get 15% off your first order at ⁠Paleovalley.com⁠ with code ALLIE. Range Leather | The quality is absolutely top-notch. Go ⁠RangeLeather.com/Allie⁠ to receive 15% off all Range Leather products when you visit my landing page. --- Episodes you might like:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Ep 1283 | Is Tucker Carlson Right About Islam? ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relatable-with-allie-beth-stuckey/id1359249098?i=1000743878076⁠ Ep 1287 | Why Your Aunt Hates ICE: A Spiritual Analysis of Liberal Women ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relatable-with-allie-beth-stuckey/id1359249098?i=1000744895339⁠ Ep 1289 | 'Civil Rights' Were Weaponized to Crush Christians. Now the Trump Admin Is Fighting Back | Harmeet Dhillon ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relatable-with-allie-beth-stuckey/id1359249098?i=1000745478509⁠ Ep 1273 | Autism Fraud, Islamic Corruption & a Crucial Tennessee Election ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relatable-with-allie-beth-stuckey/id1359249098?i=1000739184571⁠ Ep 328 | Cancel Culture, Antifa & BLM Strike Again ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-328-cancel-culture-antifa-blm-strike-again/id1359249098?i=1000499199303⁠ --- Buy Allie's book "You're Not Enough (and That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.alliebethstuckey.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Relatable merchandise: Use promo code ALLIE10 for a discount: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Over the last 30 years, the number of Americans who say they highly value patriotism, religion, community, and family has dropped dramatically. At the same time, the number of Americans who care about making more money has gone up. Phil, Kaitlyn, and Skye discuss David Brooks' new article about the culture's shift toward autonomy and away from loving attachments, and how Christians can begin rebuilding their social muscles. Sociologist and former pastor, Ryan Burge, is back to discuss why the political polarization of Christianity is hurting both the church and democracy. Also this week, why small houses are better for your soul, and monkeys are missing in St. Louis—or are they?   Holy Post Plus: Ad-Free Version of this Episode: https://www.patreon.com/posts/148707266/   Bonus Interview with Ryan Burge: https://www.patreon.com/posts/148694023/   0:00 - Show Starts   3:38 - Theme Song   4:45 - Sponsor - Poncho - If you've been looking for the perfect shirt—something breathable, fits great, feels even better, and stands out in a good way—give Poncho a try. Get $10 off your first order by using this link: https://www.ponchooutdoors.com/holypost   5:12 - Sponsor - Tyndale - The Life Application Study Bible is here to give you resources to help you understand why scripture matters and how it applies today! Check it out now at: https://www.tyndale.com/sites/lasb/?utm_campaign=Bibles%20-%20NLT%20Life%20Applicati[…]ource=Holy%20Post%20Podcast&utm_medium=Microsite%20Nov%202025   7:00 - The Monkeys are Loose in St. Louis!   15:24 - David Brooks on Love   38:00 - Are You Socially Muscular?   50:33 - Sponsor - BetterHelp - This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off your first month!   51:30 -  Sponsor - PolicyGenius - Secure your family's tomorrow so you have peace of mind today. Go to https://www.policygenius.com/HOLYPOST to find the right life insurance for you   52:34 - Interview   55:34 - Number of Christians Holding Steady   1:00:23 - Do Revivals Need to be Inside the Church?   1:09:38 - What is a Moderate Congregation?   1:17:50 - Evangelicalism Became Fundamentalism   1:24:00 - End Credits   Links Mentioned in News Segment: Monkeys! On the Loose! https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/10/us/monkeys-loose-st-louis.html   We're Living Through the Great Detachment: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/02/opinion/americans-marriage-loneliness-love.html   Elizabeth Oldfield on Social Muscles: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/24/opinion/community-housing-friendship.html   Other Resources: The Vanishing Church: How the Hollowing Out of Moderate Congregations Is Hurting Democracy, Faith, and Us (Why the Culture War Led to Polarization and What We Can Do About it) by Ryan Burge: https://amzn.to/4r1rbKL   Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/   Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus   Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost   Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop   The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.  

“Did Vatican 1 go too far on papal authority and tradition?” This question opens a discussion on the balance of authority within the Church, while also addressing related topics such as the 1995 Vatican gathering on the filioque, the Orthodox perspective on the Immaculate Conception, and insights from Eastern Orthodoxy that could benefit Catholics. Join the Catholic Answers Live Club Newsletter Invite our apologists to speak at your parish! Visit Catholicanswersspeakers.com Questions Covered: 02:00 – Did Vatican 1 go too far on papal authority? 15:43 – Are you aware of a gathering in the Vatican in 1995 that clarified the teaching on the filioque? Why isn't it mentioned in online debate? 29:40 – Is there anything from EO that Catholics can learn or adopt that would be beneficial? 35:40 – Why to the Orthodox reject the Immaculate Conception? Do you think it is a stumbling block for them to convert? 41:41 – I'm Protestant and hear Catholics claim to be the one true Church but Jerusalem was under the Orthodox and that’s where the Church was founded. What’s your response? 48:30 – What are your thoughts on how the East has handled contraception? 52:30 – Why don't we see a lot of icons of St. Joseph in the eastern Churches?

Brian From is joined by Pastor Derek Buikema of Orland Park Christian Reformed Church to talk about his call to ministry and what he loves most about being a pastor. Derek shares why “ordinary” churches—rooted in preaching, sacraments, and everyday faithfulness—are often where deep discipleship and quiet, life-changing ministry happens. The conversation also touches on church planting, blue-collar faith, and Derek’s surprising side passion: performing Shakespearean improv comedy.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Madness increases in Minnesota; Calls for Pres Trump to invoke the 'Insurrection Act' heighten; The Trump admin advances the pursuit of GreenlandWatch VINCE Live on Rumble - Mon-Fri 10AM ET ⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠https://rumble.com/vince⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠DOJ Reportedly Investigating Tim Walz, Jacob Frey For Obstructing Law Enforcementhttps://dailycaller.com/2026/01/16/doj-reportedly-investigating-tim-walz-jacob-frey-for-obstruction/?_gl=1*7fbj06*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTYxMTY2NTM0My4xNzY4NzM3MDA4*_ga_B906X4P4C5*czE3Njg3MzcwMDckbzEkZzAkdDE3Njg3MzcwMDckajYwJGwwJGgw Biden-Appointed Judge Limits ICE Tactics To Avoid ‘Retaliating' Against Minnesota Protestorshttps://dailycaller.com/2026/01/17/joe-biden-appointed-federal-judge-limits-immigration-customs-enforcement-tactics-avoid-retaliating-minnesota-protestors/?_gl=1*7fbj06*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTYxMTY2NTM0My4xNzY4NzM3MDA4*_ga_B906X4P4C5*czE3Njg3MzcwMDckbzEkZzAkdDE3Njg3MzcwMDckajYwJGwwJGgw ‘This Is What You F*cking Wanted': Video Shows Pro-ICE And Anti-ICE Demonstrators Clash As Rioting Continueshttps://dailycaller.com/2026/01/17/jorge-ventura-video-shows-pro-anti-immigration-customs-enforcement-demonstrators-clash-riots/?_gl=1*12zbviw*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTYxMTY2NTM0My4xNzY4NzM3MDA4*_ga_B906X4P4C5*czE3Njg3MzcwMDckbzEkZzAkdDE3Njg3MzcwMDckajYwJGwwJGgw Sponsors:Helix Sleep - https://helixsleep.com/vinceGoldbelly - https://goldbelly.com code: VinceBon Charge - https://boncharge.com code: VINCEFatty15 - https://fatty15.com/Vince Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For hundreds of years, the left has seen religion and in particular Christian churches as the enemy, and America got the latest reminder of that over the weekend when a mob disrupted a Christian worship service with the help of failed CNN anchor Don Lemon. The show explains the left's long history of anti-Christian hostility and calls for accountability. "Shepherds for Sale" author Megan Basham explains how this anti-Christian harassment is joined by steady internal subversion, and reacts to "rising star" Democrat James Talarico, a "seminarian," claiming that all religions are just as good as Christianity. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Steve says this weekend's desecration of a church in the Twin Cities proves why every single American church must have a plan to deal with demonic agitators. Then, Bob Vander Plaats joins the show to discuss the weekend's news. In Hour Two, it's another round of Ask Deace Anything, featuring questions from his audience on Facebook. TODAY'S SPONSORS: COVEPURE: https://covepure.com/?ref=151 and get up to $200 off MY PATRIOT SUPPLY: https://www.mypatriotsupply.com/pages/special-offer?hid=22&utm_source=StvDeace&utm_id=Direct&utm_medium=DB.End-PPW&utm_content=podc&utm_term=0-0&utm_campaign=Mktg_DB.End-PPW_StvDeace_podc__0-0 JASE MEDICAL: https://jasemedical.com/ and enter code “DEACE” at checkout for a discount on your order RELIEF FACTOR: VISIT https://www.relieffactor.com/ OR CALL 800-4-RELIEF Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Questions about whether there's an issue with churches advertising on social media, whether it's weird if we pray along with a YouTuber, and whether Christian social media influencers are going against Matthew 6:1–2 when they film themselves doing good deeds.   What are your thoughts on churches advertising on social media? Is it weird that I often find myself praying along with a YouTuber when he ends his videos with a prayer? Are Christian social media influencers going against Matthew 6:1–2 when they film themselves doing good deeds?

In this episode, Jon Herold opens with reflections on Martin Luther King Jr. Day before diving into the escalating controversy surrounding Don Lemon's involvement in the disruption of a church service in Minneapolis and the broader implications for religious freedom and federal accountability. Jon breaks down why both sides of the uniparty appear eager to bait Donald Trump into invoking the Insurrection Act, explores the timing of recent DOJ statements and presidential messaging on religious liberty, and examines the growing boldness of activists who believe there will be no consequences. The episode also covers Trump's presence at Davos, geopolitical maneuvering involving Putin and Gaza, market movements in gold, silver, and Bitcoin, and the ongoing erosion of trust in elections, institutions, and narrative accountability, all through Jon's sharp, unfiltered lens.

Dave Clayton | 01.18.26 | ethoschurch.org

Welcome to Walking the Way. My name is Ray, and I really want to say thank you to everyone for listening in as we continue to explore what it means to have a regular rhythm of worship.CreditsOpening PrayerRay Borrett Bible verseIsaiah 28:13           Thought for the dayRay Borrett Bible PassageIsaiah 28New Revised Standard Version, Updated Edition. Copyright © 2021 National Council of Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide. Prayer HandbookClick here to download it Supporting Walking the WayIf you want to support Walking the Way, please go to: https://ko-fi.com/S6S4WXLBBor you can subscribe to the channel: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/walkingtheway/subscribe To contact Ray:Please leave a comment or a review. I want to find out what people think and how we make it better.www.rayborrett.co.ukwalkingthewaypodcast@outlook.comwww.instagram.com/walkingtheway1@raybrrtt

Carmen LaBerge responds to an article featuring pastors in near the Twin Cities and how they are having to navigate the ICE immigration raids in Minnesota.  Many legal immigrants as well as illegal immigrants are fearful, and the churches they are part of are seeking to support them.  Carmen highlights how our decades-old broken immigration system has lead to much of the anxiety and pain.  Pastor Alfonso Espinonsa, author of "Contending for Christ Through the Creed," continues our look at the Apostle's Creed, focusing on Jesus' resurrection, which is attested to by both early and eye witnesses.   The Reconnect with Carmen and all Faith Radio podcasts are made possible by your support. Give now: Click here

Leading Into 2026: Executive Pastor Insights Momentum is real. So is the pressure. This free report draws from the largest dedicated survey of Executive Pastors ever, revealing what leaders are actually facing as they prepare for 2026. Why staff health is the #1 pressure point Where churches feel hopeful — and stretched thin What worked in 2025 and is worth repeating Clear decision filters for the year ahead Download the Full Report Free PDF • Built for Executive Pastors • Instant access Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We're continuing our special series responding to insights from the National Executive Pastor Survey with an executive pastor from a prevailing church. Today we're joined by Eric Garza, Executive Pastor at Cross Church. Cross Church is one of the fastest-growing churches in the country, with 12 campuses across South Texas, serving both English- and Spanish-speaking congregations. In this conversation, Eric helps unpack the number-one fear expressed by executive pastors in the survey: running out of space and not knowing what to do next. Is your church growing but feeling physically constrained? Are facilities, kids' space, or parking holding you back from what God may want to do next? Eric offers practical, hard-earned wisdom from leading through rapid multisite expansion. Facilities don't just limit space—they shape momentum. // At Cross Church, growth has come through both campus planting and mergers or acquisitions of existing churches. In both cases, facilities either enable momentum or quietly choke it. Sustainable space must support all aspects of ministry—not just a worship room. Parking, kids' environments, lobbies, restrooms, storage, and office space all play a role. A building that works on paper can quickly fail if it can't support the full weekend experience. Don't rush into permanence. // One of Eric's strongest recommendations is to resist the pressure to own a building too early. Several Cross campuses began in leased spaces, which reduced operational burden and allowed the church to test viability without long-term risk. Leasing removes concerns like insurance, major maintenance, and long-term liability, freeing leaders to focus on ministry. If a campus stalls or misses the mark, leaders can pivot without being locked into a costly asset. Location matters more than you think. // Some facility lessons are learned the hard way. Eric humorously—but seriously—warns against launching next to railroad tracks or industrial zones. Visiting a facility during a Sunday morning timeframe is essential. Noise, safety, curb appeal, and accessibility all influence guest experience. Cross has launched campuses in libraries and event centers, learning to adapt acoustics and layouts while prioritizing safety and hospitality. Capital campaigns need margin. // Eric is candid about capital campaigns. Churches often believe in faith for a number that rarely materializes at full scale, especially since capital giving sits above normal tithes. Meanwhile, construction costs almost always rise. Cross learned the hard way that campaign timelines and construction timelines rarely align. Building 10–15% margin into every campaign accounts for inflation, surprises, and delays. If surplus remains, it becomes a testimony of generosity rather than a crisis averted. Remodeling vs. rebuilding requires sober math. // Acquiring an existing building can be a gift—or a trap. Before knocking down walls, Eric urges leaders to get third-party inspections and cost estimates. Some remodels quietly approach the cost of new construction while delivering less functionality. Evaluate whether a building should serve as a long-term campus, a ministry center, or even collateral for future development. Sometimes the wisest move is not to hold services there at all. Define a clear facility standard. // Over time, Cross Church developed a consistent “Cross standard” across campuses—shared color palettes, stage layouts, kids' safety ratios, and ministry flow. While floor plans differ, the experience feels familiar. This standard helps teams evaluate remodels quickly and ensures families know what to expect. It also clarifies where compromise is acceptable and where it's not. When space is tight, simplify strategically. // Not every constraint requires construction. Cross has increased capacity by adding services, adjusting service times, and consolidating kids' age groups when space is limited. Combining grades temporarily doesn't dilute quality—it preserves momentum. Eric defines excellence not as “having the best,” but “doing the best with what you have.” Obstacles are reframed as opportunities to steward growth faithfully. Communicate the season clearly. // Your people can endure inconvenience when they understand the why. Leaders don't need to share every detail, but they should frame facility strain as evidence of impact, not failure. Clear vision keeps people focused on mission rather than discomfort. To learn more about Cross Church, visit crosschurchonline.com or follow @crosschurchrgv on social media. You can also connect with Eric directly on social media at @ericpgarza. Watch the full episode below: Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Risepointe Do you feel like your church’s or school's facility could be preventing growth? Are you frustrated or possibly overwhelmed at the thought of a complicated or costly building project? Are the limitations of your building becoming obstacles in the path of expanding your ministry? Have you ever felt that you could reach more people if only the facility was better suited to the community’s needs? Well, the team over at Risepointe can help! As former ministry staff and church leaders, they understand how to prioritize and help lead you to a place where the building is a ministry multiplier. Your mission should not be held back by your building. Their team of architects, interior designers and project managers have the professional experience to incorporate creative design solutions to help move YOUR mission forward. Check them out at risepointe.com/unseminary and while you’re there, schedule a FREE call to explore possibilities for your needs, vision and future…Risepointe believes that God still uses spaces…and they're here to help. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. We are in the middle of, in the in the midst of, is maybe a better way to say, these special set of podcasts where we’re responding to what you said in the National Executive Pastor Survey, which turned out to be the largest dedicated or direct executive pastor survey that we’re aware of ever, which is kind of cool. And hundreds of people were you know, logged in and told, gave us a sense of where ministry is at. And what we’ve been doing is spending time with an executive pastor from a prevailing church, and frankly, people I like, to get their ah thoughts on kind of what was surfaced. Rich Birch — And today we’ve got a big one. This is a significant issue. In fact, it was the single biggest fear that was expressed. We asked a question around, what’s your kind of biggest fear for this year? And nearly one in five executive pastors expressed fear about this. And what is that fear? It’s the whole issue of our facilities, space, capital projects, that sort of thing. Many churches are running out of kids space, parking, seating, lobby capacity. Rich Birch — You know, we’re all worried about in inflation of construction costs. If you got a building quoted on five years ago, you’re going to want to get it quoted on again, you know, renovation, building, all of this stuff. And, you know, we’re excited to have ah today a return guest, Eric Garza with us. He is from a fantastic church, Cross Church, which is located in Texas. It’s one of the fastest growing churches of ah in the country, and they have 12 campuses, if I’m counting correctly. So Eric has thought about facilities and so excited to have you back on the show, Eric. Thanks for being here.Eric Garza — Rich, thanks for having me back. Good to have an opportunity to have a great conversation about a big topic for a lot of pastors and executives across the country. Yeah.Rich Birch — Well, you’re going to solve all our problems for us today, Eric. So.Eric Garza — It’s just some nuggets of what I’ve learned and experienced. But if I can make your life and your world a little bit better, awesome.Rich Birch — That’s great. That’s good. Kind of tell us a little bit about Cross again, kind of set the context, you know, give us a bit of sense of the the church.Eric Garza — Yeah, so we’re in deep south Texas. Most of our campuses are within a half hour north of the US-Mexico border. So right at the bottom of the tip of Texas. 30 years going on 31 years as a ministry. In the last eight years, we went from one site ah to now seven locations, physical locations and 12 campuses.Eric Garza — We’re a bilingual ministry, which means we do we have English campuses and we have Spanish campuses. And we recently, last year in 2025, launched our first campus outside of our region in San Antonio, Texas. Rich Birch — Love it.Eric Garza — And you can imagine a lot of ah victories and a lot of challenges, ah you know leaving your space, your comfort area, the region where you’ve been, for 30 years and then heading out and venturing off into what we believe God called us to do in in Central Texas.Eric Garza — So ah just phenomenal growth. We’ve seen God’s hand up on our ministry and it’s come with, ah like I said, a lot of wins and a lot of challenges we’ve had to navigate. And being a a predominantly Hispanic ministry that reaches both English congregants and Spanish congregants, dealing with cultural, political issues in our region of the country ah has just been a whirlwind. But as anybody could imagine, it’s been a big learning season for us for expansion. You know, I know we’re talking about facilities going from one side to multisite and all of that that entails operationally, logistically, financially. So I wouldn’t say we know it all. We certainly don’t if we’re always learning. But man, if if we can just impart any wisdom, we’re we’re all for that.Rich Birch — Love it. Well, I would say I actually re-looked at a lot of these fears. And the overall tone, if you were to kind of summarize the the conversation that people seem to be expressing is like, there’s this sense from a lot of executive pastors, listen, our ministry could grow, but our space, frankly, is holding us back. And we’re not entirely sure what the path forward is. It’s like, we we see the physical space issues, but I’m not sure where to go from here. So I’d love to jump right in. Eric Garza — Sure.Rich Birch — How have you, as you’ve looked at your seven physical locations, 12 campuses, how do you evaluate facility limitations? And are they the things that are actually restricting growth or does the issue lie somewhere else? How do you, how are you discerning that when you look at, you know, this, this whole issue?Eric Garza — Yeah, a lot of our of our growth has come from us planting campuses, but some of our growth has come from, I guess, what the corporate world calls mergers and acquisitions, where we’ve merged or really acquired other ministries who either had an existing facility that we took over. Or where we partnered with them through the acquisition and launched a campus in a new building or a new facility.Eric Garza — So some of the things that we’ve done is, there’s a whole process, right, that that it’s entailed with going multisite. And one of those big key indicators of whether the campus or the church plant is going to succeed is whether they have a sustainable facility that can house all aspects of the ministry. And sometimes that can be difficult to find.Eric Garza — For example, you don’t just want meeting space to have services, right? You need maybe an office space, you need childcare space, you need a meeting space, you need lobby, restrooms, you need adequate parking. And all of those factors come into play when you’re looking to find the right spaces. So for us, We’ve just been blessed that ah either we’ve have you know gone through the capital campaigns, we’ve gone through the funding, the you know internal funding to build new facilities, or the acquisition that we’ve ah done over the last couple of years already had an existing facility, which is a plus. Because instead of building, we just went into a remodel phase to bring that building up to what we would call our Cross-standard to house our campus and facility. And so I mean it’s It’s a holistic approach. Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah.Eric Garza — You look at parking, kids space. What you don’t want to do and what what we’ve run into in the past, is it’s okay to to launch with limited space, but if you’re launching and you already have a couple of hundred people that are gathered, you’re going to want to find a space that’s going to give you ample room to have one or two services without having to crunch yourself in the short term. And it’s going to, in in in a larger sense, going to really facilitate some challenge and some angst and frustrations early on. And you want to minimize as much of that, especially when you’re when you’re launching and you’re setting out to start a new campus or a new church.Rich Birch — Yeah, so that’s one of those kind of pinch points would be too small, right? Like I’m assuming you’ve ended up in facilities where it’s like, okay, this is this just frankly is too small. Eric Garza — It’s not going to work. Rich Birch — And so we’ve got to, it’s not going to work. We’re going have to start with three services and that, you know, or something like that. Or we’ll start with two and we’ll be pinched too quickly. Are there any other kind of tripwires that you’ve run into that are like, oh, like it might be great on these five things, but this, these, if it’s not these two or three, if these aren’t right, we were not going in there. Are there any other things to get to, as you said, a sustainable facility? Are there any kind of big no-nos that you’ve bumped into, or maybe you wish you knew before? Yeah. Tell me about that.Eric Garza — Yeah, a couple of things. Number one is don’t ah start a church next to the railroad tracks. That may sound a little funny.Rich Birch — No, tell me more.Eric Garza — You never know that during your Sunday morning message at your 10 o’clock service, roughly about 10:40 a.m., this train… Rich Birch — Oh, gosh. Eric Garza — …who’s two or three blocks away is going to come blaring out ah and just completely disrupt your sound and and your service and your message for a few minutes. So it may sound comical, but ah yeah, definitely don’t do that. Right.Rich Birch — No, that’s very good.Eric Garza — Yeah.Rich Birch — That’s well, and even going and seeing, that’s a great takeaway because even going and seeing the facility during a Sunday morning, like, cause you wouldn’t know that if you’re there to just Tuesday afternoon or something, you would have no sense of that. Eric Garza — Yeah.Rich Birch — But, but cause it might be a train, but there’s, I could see lots of things where.Eric Garza — Trains are not confined to Monday through Friday.Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Eric Garza — They’re there every day as they need. And so you just you just never know. That has to happen a couple of times, and it’s incredibly frustrating. Rich Birch — Yeah. That’s interesting. That’s good.Eric Garza — And so you play it off the middle of the service, but man, it can it can mess it could mess with some stuff. The second thing I would say is is this when looking for a facility. There’s obviously some innate some internal perhaps pressure or self-imposed pressure as a pastor or an executive to want to get into a permanent facility right away.Eric Garza — One of the things that helped us early on with with a couple of our campuses is we actually rented. And here’s the benefit of renting or leasing, even for a year or two, as you grow that site is number one, you’re not worried about insurance, right? You’re not worried about lawsuits. You’re not worried about maintenance or you’re paying for that, right? But there’s a lot that you minimize when it comes to overloading your mind and your brain about what you have to handle.Rich Birch — Yep. Eric Garza — Alright. And so you pay a fee, but the building’s clean when you come in. And right after you set, you know, you tear down your equipment for the service in your kids area, you don’t have to worry about that because you’re leasing a space. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Eric Garza — And so if you can minimize, like I said, as much of the overload of operations and facilities on the front end, that’s that’s a great a great thing. And most spaces, right, what we did early on is if we had an event center where we would rent the main auditorium uh we would use conference rooms or or multi-purpose room for child care. We would safe proof them, right – all of our protocols in place. But that’s what we would do early on, and it would give us a chance to test and gather some data. Rich Birch — That’s so good.Eric Garza — Is this going to work long term? Right. Number one, we don’t believe we missed God. But if after a couple of years, this isn’t going anywhere. Well, thank God we didn’t buy a building… Rich Birch — Right. Eric Garza — …because now we’re you know up a creek without a paddle, as they say. And so leasing is not is not an entirely bad idea on the early outset.Rich Birch — No, that’s great.Eric Garza — But definitely the neighborhood that you’re in, right beside the town that you’re in, you want to be in a centrally as centrally as you can, centrally located as you can, and and not next to a railroad track or any industry or warehouses where there’s going to be trucks, just for safety concerns, for the curbside appeal. And so that’s why public libraries or where we had actually launched started campuses was at a public library – acoustic set because we couldn’t be so loud. So all of those facility concerns are are really things you want to keep in mind.Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. I love the idea of the rental on the front end. What a great way to, it’s good use of capital. It’s a good, you know, it it gives you a chance to test… Eric Garza — Yeah. Rich Birch — …even if you stay for a couple of years, that’s, you know, that’s fantastic. So you’ve been through multiple, you know, capital campaigns, this whole process of like, we’ve got to raise money and then get a facility renovated or, you know, you know, expanded or whatever. Rich Birch — What, what do you wish you would have known before all that? Well, are there a couple like things that either, you know, you stumbled upon, you stubbed your toe or you wish, man, I wish somebody would have told me this. Are there any things that stand out to you?Eric Garza — Number, I think the first one is this. You have an you have a number in your mind, and you of course you believe God for it. It…Rich Birch — And it’s lower. It’s going to come in lower every time.Eric Garza — …it is. Every single, unless God does a miracle, which he is more than able to do… Rich Birch — Yes.Eric Garza — …it’s going to come in lower. And so I think have have high anticipation but realistic expectations… Rich Birch — Right. Eric Garza — …because most capital campaigns are campaigns that are above normal giving.Rich Birch — Yeah. Okay. Yep.Eric Garza — Right. And so at least for us, it’s above normal giving. Rich Birch — Yep.Eric Garza — We encourage and we get people to give towards a specific capital campaign, which is for a specific campus or a specific project or or what have you. But you have this number in mind and then if you can tend to early on. It’s not coming in yet. Or maybe you’ve done it for a year or give a specific timeline.Rich Birch — I see. Okay. Yep.Eric Garza — And you can get quickly discouraged, especially with capital campaigns where you’re like, we’re halfway through this thing and not even half has come in yet, or of what we thought would come in. And so it’s easier to get discouraged. But that was a big thing is that number in your mind, it’s going to be lower. And that’s not a bad thing. Right. That’s not a bad thing.Eric Garza — People are giving to a capital campaign above giving of their normal giving, sacrificially, they’re giving by faith. They’re giving with expectation. But at the same time, for those of us on the inside, right, those of us who are managing the resources and what have you, it’s it’s about having a realistic expectation that we have the faith that God can do it. But we’re all going to budget ourselves knowing that if there’s a high probability, not impossible, there’s a high probability that the number we had in mind, is not going to be what comes in for the capital campaign.Rich Birch — Let’s talk about that there. So there’s an interesting, um so I’ve seen that for sure in churches. There’s an interesting kind of tension that pulls in two different directions. One, you can have exactly what you’re talking about, which is, you know, we thought we would go in, we we were hoping we would raise X and we raised something less than that. Eric Garza — Yeah. Rich Birch — But then the other part of it is we were hoping the project was going to cost X and it costs X plus, you know, it’s costing us more than, than we anticipated. How do you manage that tension? How have you been able to kind of navigate that? That’s a, that’s a tough tension.Eric Garza — Yeah, the longevity of the capital campaign is gonna is not always going to be exactly match, it’s not going, rather, to exactly match what the building construction cost was at the beginning. Prices fluctuate and prices change.Eric Garza — And so let’s say you have let’s use so a rough even number, a million dollar capital campaign for your church organization. And the construction is going to cost, I don’t know, $900,000, $950,000. Well, a million dollars should cover it. But by the time a million dollars or shortly or short of that comes in, well, your budget is now at 1.2 or 1.3. Rich Birch — Right. Eric Garza — It’s fluctuated. And so the what’s congruent at the beginning can be really a little bit financially off by the time that can…In other words, the timelines of the capital campaign and your building projects sometimes don’t align perfectly. And we’ve run into that too, where we’ve had to take from our operating budget a little bit, or we’ve had to really emphasize a certain amount during the campaign, because that’s what needs to come in. We’ve you know met with with key givers and donors of the church. And those are challenges that you navigate ah during the capital campaign process. Rich Birch — Sure. Eric Garza — And and like I said earlier, it’s it’s challenging because, well, let me backtrack and say this.Eric Garza — This is why on the front end, you should add margin into your capital campaign… Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Eric Garza — …which we didn’t do that, perhaps the first go around. But certainly the later ah seasons, we added margin in our capital campaigns to account for any fluctuation in construction costs. And if there was ever in a surplus, well, we would tell the church it’s because of your giving and because of your support and generosity that we had more than enough come in. Rich Birch — That’s good.Eric Garza — And so now we’re going to use those funds for X or they’re going to go back to the general fund or or whatever whatever the case. But I think that the key that would be to incorporate some 10 to 15% margin in your capital campaign on the outset to account for anything that might happen 12, 15, 18 months down the road.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. That’s really good. That’s good. You maybe just saved somebody a lot of headache two years from now… Eric Garza — Yeah. Rich Birch — …because of that part of the conversation. I want to go back to something you talked about earlier. You’ve had multiple buildings that you’ve acquired or you’ve merged with, and you were talking about remodeling and there’s like, that can be a blessing and a curse. Like it can be amazing. Like, wow, this is great. And…Eric Garza — You never know what you’re going to find.Rich Birch — …you know, you open up, you open up a wall and who knows what’s behind that wall. And, you know, there’s all that. And you talked about bringing it up to the Cross standard. Talk me through what how have you decided what that is? What is the Cross standard? And how do you what are the common things that you find, Oh, we’ve got to make this change. And how have you kind of defined that as you think about projects like that?Eric Garza — Yeah, so over the last few years, we’ve pretty much honed in on, I guess, the vibe and the look of what we want our campuses to to feel and look like.Rich Birch — Okay.Eric Garza — They may be different ah floor plans because some of them we built, some of them we acquired, properties we took over. But as far as color schemes, we do our very best to match wall colors, sanctuary colors. We use the same stage equipment, both branding and layout as best as possible across all of our sanctuary auditoriums, our stages. Eric Garza — Our kids spaces, ah we have an internal ratio of how many teachers or volunteers per infants, per toddlers, for school-age children we want. And so that determines our spacing. And so sometimes we’ve got to knock some walls down or build some walls in to accommodate for for what, like I said, our standard of ministry, both in appeal, but also in care for for our congregants and for our families.Eric Garza — And so when we remodel, you’re right, there’s some things that once you knock down a wall, you’re not going to know until you knock it down. And that’s where that, you know, that margin comes in. But for the most part, right, we’ve had we do inspections, we get we get third party opinions on the building, on the cost estimates, and like we would encourage anybody to do, right.Eric Garza — But that’s our Cross standard is the look, the feel, the equipment, the wall colors, you know is there enough space for our our guests, connect area, our next steps area for first impressions. Does every ministry have adequate space to store their items – all of those factors come into play in deciding how we’re going to remodel a facility. Eric Garza — And I’ll say the second thing is this is why before you break or before you knock down a wall, get an inspector or or get some people either in your church or in the construction industry or somebody that you know in in your community. Because sometimes when you have a building, your initial thought is to remodel. That may not always be the most financial financially wise decision. And here’s why. Because you may not know all that you’re going to encounter, you may in the long run end up spending just as much as if you had built a brand new facility with the exact floor plan you want.Eric Garza — And so that’s where you’re evaluating and deciding, is it more feasible to remodel this building for X amount of dollars? Or are we within 5% to 10% budget margin, where we might just say it’s it’s in the best interest of the church perhaps to use either this facility as collateral for our next building or a brand new building, or is it better to use it a multisite building, excuse me, multi-purpose building, and we end up building a new facility…Rich Birch — Right.Eric Garza — …for the church or for the campus. And so those cost estimates are going to help you make the best, most informed decision of where you’re going to steward the resources financially in either remodeling or in building a site.Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. One of my favorite churches, Mercy Hill Church in North Carolina, they they had a building that was given to them and they did, they weren’t entirely sure what to kind of, it was in a part of town, they weren’t necessarily sure they wanted to launch a campus and just they had a campus closer and all that. And they ended up using it turned it into a really a student center and it’s a fantastic ministry building and it’s active, you know, five, six days a week.Rich Birch — Now they don’t do Sunday morning services there, but they do all kinds of other stuff, which is fantastic. Like is a great, you know…Eric Garza — And we’ve seen that too. Yeah. They use for leadership meetings, for small chapel receptions… Rich Birch — Yeah. Eric Garza — …or gatherings or next gen events, youth, young adults, even renting it out to the community as a means to supply income to the church…Rich Birch — Yep. Yep. On a daycare or something.Eric Garza — …to like, you know aligned organizations, of course, whatever your church policy is. But yeah, sometimes the best use of that building is not for church services.Rich Birch — Have you, have you run into facilities that you’ve evaluated and then decided, no like this is going to cost way too much to renovate and we’re, so we won’t go forward with it. Have you run into that after evaluation?Eric Garza — Well, not entirely, but I’ll say this…recent… Rich Birch — I know that risk is there for sure.Eric Garza — Yeah, there is risk. There is risk. And the risk assessment is different when you’re leasing a space or remodel… Rich Birch — Right. Eric Garza — …and when you’re when you’re obviously building your own facility, as far as and including the costs associated with that. One of our campuses recently, and I mean in the last 24 months, before we moved into our new building was leasing a space and we were given the option to remodel the space we were leasing. Because though it was suitable for what we needed for the ministry, for Sunday services and and all the other ministries, parts of it were not really conducive to growth for the congregation and for the ministry.Eric Garza — So we did contemplate remodeling. I think I think what kept us from doing that number one is whatever you remodel for the landlord the landlord is going up keeping. And so the return on that investment would be short term and not long term, We were already in the midst of building our building but we were growing at a rapid rate, and so we were eight, twelve months out from from being in our building and the campus was growing, and so we needed a short-term solution. Rich Birch — Right.Eric Garza — So we did think, Well, we’ll spend X amount of dollars to remodel our site where we’re leasing before we get into the new building. But we found out that shifting our service times and and doing different different strategies ended up alleviating in the short term the constraints we had to give us a time to get into our new building, which is now more than enough space for us to grow for for years and years to come.Rich Birch — Right. That’s cool. Yeah. Cause I’ve said as a, I feel like I’ve been in a ton of conversations with XPs where, you know, they’re talking about this issue and you know, there’s like a building that they’re, maybe it’s another church that’s come to them and they’re having a conversation and they’re, I would say their mindset is like, I’m not sure we should do this. Like this is, they’re like, this other church came to us and statistically, actually the most likely for these mergers to succeed are when the joining church comes to the lead church. Eric Garza — Yeah.Rich Birch — So they would come to your church and be like, Hey, we’re interested. So it actually happens a fair amount. And I’ve, I feel like I’ve talked, tried to talk so many executive pastors into like, man, it’s gotta be a really bad building. If particularly if it’s like has debt or has no debt or very little debt on it, it’s gotta be a very bad building to not want to take it. Cause it’s like, you know, you can, you can take, invest, you know, a moderate amount of money. You don’t need to dump a ton into it and get something great. And like you said, as long as you’re above board with everybody, you know, five years from now, if it doesn’t work, you could take that asset, sell it and move on and use those resources somewhere else.Eric Garza — And that’s very good because when you talk about acquiring a ministry, especially if it has a low balance on their mortgage or or they don’t have much to pay off the building, and if you’re in a position to pay that off within the first year of acquiring the ministry… Rich Birch — Right. Eric Garza — …think of a collateral and the equity that your organization now has because of that new facility that’s in your portfolio.Rich Birch — 100%.Eric Garza — And I know it sounds very business-minded, but when you’re looking to expand into the future, even at another site in your church ministry organization, you now have more collateral, more resources to leverage for a better financial position in the future when you do want to actually build a building. Eric Garza — And the second thing is this, if you’re acquiring a ministry that already has an existing building, in most cases, it’s already built out for church purposes. So that’s very helpful. So at that point, you may be putting in a smaller amount and just… Rich Birch — Right. Eric Garza — …you know, refurbishing it, painting the walls, putting some new equipment, some new screens, maybe be changing out the flooring a little bit, or some of the fixtures in different spaces… Rich Birch — There’s technology or whatever, yep. Eric Garza — …because it’s already built out for a church. And so that’s the benefit of going or acquiring in a ministry if you’re going that route that already has an existing facility.Rich Birch — Yeah, we had, ah we were running, our budget was about $8 million dollars and we were, we had a church come to us and they were, they had really, they had had a tough season and the summer before we ended up merging with them or they joined us really, they had multiple Sundays where they had two people show up on Sunday. They had the person that was preaching and the guy that was opening the door, like it was, it had really atrophied down.Rich Birch — And I remember in one of those conversations, they had had a bit of a roof problem. The facility was worth just probably south of 2 million. It was like ah a great facility, but they had a roof problem. And I remember one of the the elders leader person, he said, you know, we we got a quote on the roof and it’s it’s going to cost maybe about $15,000 to fix. Do you think you guys will be able to fix that? And they had no debt and were going to give us their building. Rich Birch — Well, like I humbly had to say like, like, yeah, we’ll we’ll be okay. Like, it’s gonna it’s gonna be fine. Like, you know, I what I didn’t want to say is like, I feel like our youth guys have like wasted $15,000 this year. Like, you know, like it’s like we can, you know, the exchange just on paper. And again, that’s not why you go into those conversations. Eric Garza — Of course.Rich Birch — But a part of that is, particularly in our seats as executive pastors, that’s a part of what we have to wrestle through and think about those things. So let’s get back to the renovation thing. A lot of what churches were talking about is like, pressure of like, man, I just, our physical facilities are, are holding us back. Rich Birch — Any other thoughts around, you know, changes you’ve made to increase capacity or, um you know, things that maybe are like some low hanging fruit or creative solutions that have that, that maybe we’re not thinking about, but as a leader who’s been through this, you know, you’ve been, you’ve wrestled through that, that we, we could, you know, benefit from.Eric Garza — Yeah, absolutely. A couple of things. You can please everybody, right? Rich Birch — That’s good. Eric Garza — And so I think one of the ministry pressures well, we want to please the next gen. We also want to please the child care. We also want to please the elders of the church. And we also want to please the younger families of the church and young professionals. And when you’re when you’re in a facility that wasn’t originally built according to your specs, it’s going to be difficult to do that.Eric Garza — And so you have to focus, as we have, on the most critical areas, sanctuary and child care. If you don’t have child care, it’s going to be a barrier to growth because families or parents are not going to have the comfort level they need to come to your church on a regular basis and to be a part of the community. And so for us, when we’ve remodeled, the first things we look at are sanctuary and then the kid space. Do we have enough adequate kids space?Rich Birch — That’s good.Eric Garza — Some of the solutions when we’ve been limited in space is is launching multiple services to we have a smaller sanctuary or a smaller space, we’ll offer more service opportunities. Or when it comes to our kids ministry, we’ve evaluated with our kids directors and our our kids department of how can we best merge age groups to maximize the space that we have. So if you have right an ideal facility where you have you know your child your child care divided by grade level or age level, sometimes you have the amenity to do that and many times you don’t. And so what we’ve done is instead of having first grade on their own, maybe we’ll put you know kindergarten and first grade level kids together.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Eric Garza — We’ll put second and third together, fourth and fifth together as a way to consolidate because we don’t have the space that we prefer to have, at least in this season. And so for us, sometimes you’re not watering down in essence, the content, the quality, but you are consolidating in the short term or even medium term… Rich Birch — Right. Eric Garza — …if you will, if that’s even a term, to make adequate space for the constraints that you may have. Rich Birch — That’s good.Eric Garza — And so you have 600 members and you only have 200-seat sanctuary, 250. Well, that’s an opportunity for three services. Rich Birch — Right.Eric Garza — Is that is that is that Is that a strain? Well, it can be if you see it from core perspective versus a perspective of, Man, we’re so large and we have the space. You know, one of our core values at our church is excellence. And we’ve defined excellence as not having the best, but doing the best with what you have.Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good.Eric Garza — So we may not have a thousand seat auditorium for this growing congregation, but what we do have, we’re going utilize it and steward it to our best ability. So if that means two or three services, well, God give us the strength and the people to manage and to lead and to execute three strong services every weekend, or every Sunday, in order to meet the need of the congregation that we have.Eric Garza — And and I think one of the biggest things, Rich, is also communicating this. It’s keeping them current, right. You’re not going to go into all the details per se, unless that’s your preference and that’s your senior pastor’s prerogative. But to share with them the overarching theme of, hey, here’s where we’re at as a ministry. Here’s our facility. And here’s what we’re going to do to continue to offer as best a ministry as we can, while at the same time being cognizant of the challenges that we’re facing.Eric Garza — We said this to our staff and to our church many times, is we don’t look at obstacles as negatives. We look at obstacles as opportunities. Okay.Rich Birch — That’s so true.Eric Garza — If this is what we have, how can we be as excellent as possible with what we have? If that means going to a third service, well, then we’re going to give it a shot because what we don’t want to do is allow facility constraints to translate into diminished capacity or into a diminishing congregation and I’m talking about numerically. Because the diminishing congregation numerically also means a diminishing budget and revenue financially because you have less givers in the seats. And that’s those are some of the challenges that you got navigate so we don’t see it as obstacles. We don’t see obstacles necessarily as a challenge we see that’s an opportunity of okay how can we navigate around this mountain if you will to continue to provide as excellent a ministry as we can.Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. I love your example of the kids age size rooms. Because I think you’ve you’re articulating a tension that whenever we’re, particularly for launching we talked a lot about this, like renovating other spaces and new campuses and all that, where I think really is germane to our job as executive pastor to to manage this tension of we want it feel, you know, the language you used was Cross standard. It’s absolutely has got to be Cross standard, but there will be areas where we’re going to have to compromise. Like that is just true. And a part of what we have to do, we have to use our leadership and our discernment and, you know, get the right players in the room and have the conversation. And, you know, somebody using your example, somebody kids’ ministry to be like, no, we can’t combine them together. That’ll be terrible. And it’s like, we’re going to be fine. Like, we’ll figure it out, you know. Eric Garza — Yeah [inaudible].Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s going to be okay. We’ll we’ll help that navigate. And that’s one example, but there’s a ton of those that can come up in these, you know, in these renovations for sure.Eric Garza — Yeah, absolutely.Rich Birch — That’s good.Eric Garza — and And people are always going to have opinions. Rich Birch — Right.Eric Garza — But I’ll say this from experience. And I mean, no ill intent towards anybody in your congregation or your ministry.Rich Birch — No.Eric Garza — Most of the people that are criticizing are the people that aren’t giving anyway. And so I’m not saying ignore them by any means. They’re part of your part of your ecosystem. They’re part of your church, they’re part of your flock.Rich Birch — Yep. That’s very true.Eric Garza — But it’s always with a grain of salt because the people that are really bought into your ministry are going to walk through those opportunities alongside you, ah hopefully with the best attitude that they possibly can muster up because this too shall pass.Rich Birch — Yes.Eric Garza — Right.Rich Birch — Yes.Eric Garza — If you’ve gone out in faith to plant or to grow or to expand your congregation, this is a temporary season. It’s not a permanent season. You won’t always be at three or four services, right? Or multiple services.Eric Garza — At some point, if God is in this and you really believe He is, and I believe He is for many organizations and ministries, the timing will be right when you have a facility that can house what you need, or that can provide the amenities and space that you need. And so for parents, for givers, for guests, it is just letting them know as best you can, even subtly through announcements or even messages and say, hey, we’re in a season of growth and expansion. Growth doesn’t always look you know perfect. And so we have seasons where we’re going to navigate some some challenges and opportunities as best we can to get us to an end goal.Eric Garza — This is a means to an end. What we’re going through is a means to get us to where we want to go as a ministry. And as long as you keep it at the forefront, tying it into the vision of the house, you’re going to see that in a large sense, you’re going to have people rally behind that idea and unfocused, if you will, from the constraints of their of the facility to the broader appeal of what God is doing in the ministry.Rich Birch — Yeah, that is so good. Friends, you should go back and re-listen to what Eric just said there. That is some wise advice. And obviously from somebody that’s been in the trenches a lot, that’s been my experience as well. The people, the complainers, I’m reading through the book of Job right now. And I’m like, man, his friends are just like, this guy needs better friends.Eric Garza — Yeah.Rich Birch — And that that reminded me of the people you’re talking about. Like…Eric Garza — Yeah.Rich Birch — You know, there’s these people who are just, you know, sniping from the cheap seats and they’re not really engaged in the mission where, man, those people that are right on in the middle of it, they’re like, let’s go, let’s lean in.Rich Birch — And man, that’s the kind of person, I’m hoping as I transition into older age that I’m that person, you know, because we have a number of those people at our church that I look at that are like, these are incredible saints who have seen so much change. And who I’m sure lots of things annoy them, but they’re fired up for the mission. They’re excited in our case to reach unchurched people, to see people who far from Jesus connected.Eric Garza — If you’re not changing, you’re not making progress, right? Rich Birch — Yeah, absolutely. And the fact you the fact that your ministry is facing opportunities or obstacles rather disguised as opportunities is proof positive you’re going somewhere. Rich Birch — Yeah.Eric Garza — You’re not a stagnant ministry. You’re not a you’re not a lazy ministry, right? You’re not apathetic. You’re really out in the field of vision that God has given you or to your senior leadership. And so it’s proof positive, right? And so take that as an badge of honor in some way to say, we must be doing something right.Rich Birch — So good. Well, Eric, just as we’re coming to kind of land, this has been a great conversation, hopefully been helpful for you, friends, as you’ve have been listening in. But as we kind of come to land today’s conversation, what’s a question or two that that you’re kicking around for this year at at Cross as you’re thinking about 2026? Where’s your head at? What are the things you’re wondering? It doesn’t have to be about this, could be anything.Eric Garza — Yeah, well, ah thanks for letting me speak into that, Rich. I think for me as an executive and looking at our ministry, you know, looking at the previous 30 years and looking at the next decade, if you will, of where God is going to take our ministry, being one of America’s fastest growing churches, being the largest bilingual Hispanic-led ministry in the country. We’ve, you know, like I’ve said in a previous episode with you, we haven’t had any precedent for us in our context. And so we’ve navigated a lot of uncharted waters and learned from both wins and losses and different opportunities and struggles to get us to where we’re at now. Eric Garza — I think one of the biggest questions facing the church at large in 2026 is how the church is going to respond to the ever increasingly fast-paced changes that we’re seeing on the political front, on the cultural front. I’m not saying that the church has to be a political response. The church has to be, has to provide a biblical response to what we’re seeing.Rich Birch — Yep. Eric Garza — And with the fast paced nature of culture and society and trends, I don’t believe it’s the church’s responsibility to respond to every trend or to everything, but certainly the overarching elements of our current culture and political dynamic where there is a biblical either mandate or precedent for it, that the church would speak it into that and provide biblical perspective… Rich Birch — That’s good. Eric Garza — …and and and wisdom for how people should think about certain topics that have a biblical or moral prerogative. And so navigating that as an organization, because as a growing church and being such a large ministry, if you can imagine the opinions. We have people in our church who are conservative and who some who are not. We have people who belong to one political party over another. We’re in multiple communities. And so different communities have different demographics, different cultural contexts, different policy initiatives. There’s a lot going on.Eric Garza — And as a church ministry, especially as that we’re multisite, one of the biggest questions I’m asking myself and our team is how do we, number one, stay biblically founded, right? And unwavering in what the biblical standard is.Eric Garza — Number two is how do we address the different things and different occurrences in different communities that we’re in? If we were just one site and one community, well, then we would just be I guess you could say in our own little space and our own little focus. But we have multisites, so we have multi-focus, if you will, at how we continue to provide as excellent a ministry as possible… Rich Birch — That’s good. Eric Garza — …keeping Jesus at the forefront, above the fray, and at the same time, giving a biblical perspective so that people have the right biblical worldview for how to walk out their journey of faith their relationship with Christ, but at the same time, how to respond to what’s happening in our world. I think for many times, for for many years, really for decades, the church has abdicated its biblical responsibility, if you will, to speak into things, not from a political perspective, but from a biblical perspective.Eric Garza — And because that abdication of responsibility we’ve seen a lot of things that have happened. Thankfully, in recent seasons, in recent years, we’ve seen a a shift where faith is now at the forefront. And so though I have that question, my biggest, I guess you could say prerogative is to leverage that people are focused more on faith, that people are open to faith now more so in our country, that people are focused more on this person of Jesus and is to leverage that as an opportunity to really hone in and speak into people’s hearts and minds and into the different communities that we’re in so that they have the right biblical perspective, the biblical worldview to carry out what God has enabled them or called them to do.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. I love I love what you’re saying there. And you know I know had a friend say, you know if you’re, you know, we we all are serving in a context. We serve in a particular time, in a particular cultural context, and God’s called us to lead in that context. And if you’re not feeling the pull from, you know, multiple sides, multiple polarities, you’re like, well, everybody here agrees with me then it means you’re not actually reaching your community, you know. And the fact that you’re feeling that tension means, okay, like there’s there’s people from a wide variety of, and it can be all different political is one, but there’s lots of different ways to think of that.Eric Garza — Yeah.Rich Birch — And yeah, that’s that’s so true. I really appreciate this. Well, Eric, you’re you’re a blessing to us. I thank you so much for for giving us time today and helping us think about these things as we kick off into 2026. If where do we want to send people if they want to track with you or with the church?Rich Birch — How do we how do we want to get people connected to Cross?Eric Garza — Yeah, well, Rich, thanks for the opportunity. And it’s what a blessing for us and for me personally to be able to just share some thoughts. And if it helps anybody, well, praise God for that. I think if you want to follow the church, we’re crosschurchonline.com or crosschurchrgv on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, all of, you know, most of the social media platforms.Eric Garza — If you want to connect with me, I’d be happy to connect with you at Eric, E-R-I-C-P Garza on any of social media platforms. It’d be a h privilege for me to help you guys and to share some thoughts and even answer questions. I’d be more than happy to do that. If I can serve your ministries in any way, by all means, feel free to reach out to me on any of the social media platforms.Rich Birch — Nice. Thanks so much, Eric. Really appreciate being here today, sir. Thank you. Eric Garza — Thank you, man. God bless. Appreciate it.

This episode Dr. Jenkins looks at the worsening situation between the Orthodox East and the Latin West, comparing the witness of one tenth-century Latin bishop, critical in its own right, with a more vitriolic work by a twelfth-century French monk. For the most recent issue of The Rule of Faith: tinyurl.com/Rule6-2 For the essay mentioned by Prof. Siecienski: https://tinyurl.com/Union-Siecienski

Welcome to Walking the Way. My name is Ray, and I really want to say thank you to everyone for listening in as we continue to explore what it means to have a regular rhythm of worship.CreditsOpening PrayerRay Borrett Bible verseIsaiah 27:5           Thought for the dayRay Borrett Bible PassageIsaiah 27New Revised Standard Version, Updated Edition. Copyright © 2021 National Council of Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide. Prayer HandbookClick here to download it Supporting Walking the WayIf you want to support Walking the Way, please go to: https://ko-fi.com/S6S4WXLBBor you can subscribe to the channel: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/walkingtheway/subscribe To contact Ray:Please leave a comment or a review. I want to find out what people think and how we make it better.www.rayborrett.co.ukwalkingthewaypodcast@outlook.comwww.instagram.com/walkingtheway1@raybrrtt

In this interview with Dr. James Renihan, we discuss the difficulties that church dealt with during the time that the First London Baptist Confession was being written.

What if the church's leadership problem isn't theology—but formation?Want to stay up to date on LCMS Happenings from Pastor Tim?Join the LCMS Current: https://www.uniteleadership.org/thelcmscurrentIn this episode of the Tim Ahlman Podcast, Tim sits down with John Rector, ministry leader, executive coach, and Area Director for Fellowship of Christian Athletes in Austin, Texas.John shares his journey from church planting and nonprofit leadership to coaching leaders in ministry and the marketplace. Together, they explore why coaching—not just preaching—may be the missing ingredient in leadership development, and how Jesus Himself modeled a coaching approach to discipleship.Whether you're a pastor, church staff member, coach, or leader in the marketplace, this episode will challenge how you think about discipleship, authority, and legacy.

The world is changing fast. AI is reshaping economies, industries, and even how we relate to one another. So what does that mean for the church and its future? In one of our most important episodes yet, we're breaking down four changes every church should seriously consider making before 2030.   ============================= Table of Contents: ============================= 0:00 - Intro 10:18 - Canon vs. Content 18:00 - Formation vs. Information 26:15 - Communal vs. Individual 31:45 - Cost vs. Convenience   THE 167 NEWSLETTER

Thom and Jess welcome John Wentz, the president of Alpha USA, to The Church Answers Podcast. The post How Alpha Is Impacting Churches in the United States appeared first on Church Answers.

Leading Into 2026: Executive Pastor Insights Momentum is real. So is the pressure. This free report draws from the largest dedicated survey of Executive Pastors ever, revealing what leaders are actually facing as they prepare for 2026. Why staff health is the #1 pressure point Where churches feel hopeful — and stretched thin What worked in 2025 and is worth repeating Clear decision filters for the year ahead Download the Full Report Free PDF • Built for Executive Pastors • Instant access Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re sitting down with an executive pastor from a prevailing church to unpack what leaders like you shared in the National Executive Pastor Survey so you can lead forward with clarity. In today’s episode, we’re joined by Kayra Montañez, Executive Pastor at Liquid Church in New Jersey. Liquid is a fast-growing multisite church with six campuses stretching from Princeton to communities just outside New York City. In this conversation, Kayra helps unpack one of the biggest concerns surfaced in the National Executive Pastor Survey: the growing gap between attendance and engagement. While many churches are seeing people return, far fewer leaders feel confident that those people are truly connected, discipled, and serving. Is your church seeing full rooms but thin volunteer pipelines? Are you unsure how engaged people really are beyond weekend services? Kayra offers practical insight into why that gap exists—and what churches can do to close it. Attendance is up, engagement is unclear. // Kayra begins with encouragement. Across the country, churches are seeing renewed spiritual openness. People are coming with expectancy, ready to encounter God. At the same time, many leaders sense a disconnect between attendance and belonging. Kayra identifies several common gaps: people attending without joining “people systems” like groups or teams; online attenders remaining anonymous without a clear bridge to community; seasonal attenders who show up for Christmas and Easter but never return; and potential volunteers who are open to helping but hesitant to commit long-term. These patterns aren't unique to Liquid—they're widespread across the church landscape. From prescribed paths to personalized journeys. // One of Liquid's biggest shifts has been moving away from a rigid, one-size-fits-all connection pathway. Kayra compares the old model to the video game Mario Brothers, where everyone must follow the same prescribed path or “die.” Instead, Liquid now operates more like Zelda: a choose-your-own-adventure approach that honors people's seasons, needs, and interests. Rather than telling people where they must plug in, the church focuses on learning what people actually want and helping them find a meaningful next step. Connect and Conversation. // This shift comes to life through a monthly experience called Connect and Conversation, hosted at every campus after the final service. New and not-yet-connected attendees are invited to a meal where they sit at tables with others like them and facilitators. The event begins with relational icebreakers to help people connect naturally, then moves into guided conversation around what attendees are looking for—community, care, serving, support groups, or spiritual growth. Facilitators take detailed notes, which drive personalized follow-up in the weeks ahead. Kayra describes it as “high-touch, concierge-style ministry,” and the results have been significant movement from attendance into engagement. Measuring what matters. // Liquid tracks what happens after people attend Connect and Conversation—not to claim direct causation, but to see correlation. They monitor whether participants join groups, teams, or discipleship environments in the following months. That data has helped the church refine pathways and remove unnecessary friction. Kayra encourages leaders to examine two key metrics: how many first-time guests take any next step within 30 days, and what percentage move into a people system within 60–90 days. These numbers often reveal where engagement breaks down. Reimagining discipleship. // One surprising insight at Liquid came from surveying the congregation about small groups. While relational connection mattered, the top desire was biblical literacy. In response, Liquid “blew up” its traditional small-group model and launched a new midweek Bible study format called Deep Dive. Rather than prioritizing relationships first, these environments put Scripture front and center, with connection as a natural byproduct. The pilot—an in-depth study of Revelation—drew hundreds of participants and revealed a deep hunger for understanding God's Word. Rebuilding volunteer momentum. // Like many churches, Liquid faced a volunteer crisis as growth outpaced serving capacity—especially in kids' environments. In response, the church launched a short-term campaign called For the One, built around a “try before you buy” serving model. New volunteers could serve a few times with a shortened onboarding process (without compromising safety) and then decide whether to commit long-term, scoring exclusive team swag. More than 400 people stepped in to serve, helping stabilize teams and reignite volunteer culture. Short-term fixes and long-term culture. // Kayra emphasizes that engagement is both a systems problem and a culture challenge. Churches need short-term solutions to address immediate gaps, but long-term health comes from storytelling, celebration, appreciation, and consistently casting vision for why serving and community matter. Engagement doesn't happen accidentally—it's cultivated intentionally over time. To learn more about Liquid Church, visit liquidchurch.com, or connect with Kayra directly via email. Watch the full episode below: Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. We’ve got a special episode on today where we’re diving into some of the results from the National Executive Pastor Survey. And today we’re super excited to have Kayra Montañez with us from Liquid Church in New Jersey. Rich Birch — And today we’re talking all about engagement. One of the things that jumped out, well, one of the top tier results, kind of concerns that came out, 10% of executive pastors in the open questions, expressed fear around discipleship death depth and volunteer sustainability. At the same time, nearly 12% said they lacked really visibility into participation and involvement data. Another 6% pointed specifically to volunteer and team metrics really being an unmet need, not knowing where they are. Rich Birch — So what does that all that mean? Roughly one in five executive pastors are entering 2026 this year, wondering really how engaged their churches are. And Kayra is going to solve all that for us. So Kayra, welcome to the show. Tell us about Liquid. Tell us a little bit about the church. Kayra Montañez — Well I appreciate the vote of confidence but I’m not sure about that. But, Rich, it’s always so great to be with you and to be a guest on your podcast. Thank you so much for having me. So yes, we are in New Jersey. So our church is called Liquid. I get the incredible privilege of serving there as one of two executive pastors. And we are a multisite church. We have six campuses. If you and know anything about New Jersey, one of them is the furthest one is in Princeton, New Jersey – a lot of people know Princeton. Kayra Montañez — And then probably the closest one that we have up north is closest to New York City, about 30 minutes from the city. So that kind of gives you the breadth and width of how we’re trying to saturate the state of New Jersey with the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is our mission. Rich Birch — So good. And Kayra, I really appreciate you jumping in on on today’s conversation, particularly in this area, because I think, man, have so much to offer. You know, so many of our churches, we feel like the volunteer pipelines are thin. How are we getting? It’s like people are underutilized. Maybe are our follow-up process are like overly complex. And you’ve done a great job on on this area. So let’s just jump right in. Rich Birch — Where do you see some of the biggest gaps today in churches, whether it’s Liquid or other churches you interact, between, you know, getting people to attend church attendance and actual engagement. There’s a gap there. what What’s driving that? What do what do you think drives that gap in our churches? Kayra Montañez — Yeah. So I see a couple of things. But before I get to that, you know, I just really wanted to start with something really encouraging because it’s not in my nature to be discouraging. So one of the things that I have noticed, in fact, I was actually spending some time with other pastors from other states in the U.S. And we were talking about like, hey, what is the Lord doing in the in the Big C Church? What are you experiencing in your context? Rich Birch — So good. Kayra Montañez — And one of the things I think that was a theme for all of us is it feels like we don’t have to work as hard to get people to come and be ready for what the Lord has for them. And that feels very exciting. Rich Birch — Yep. Kayra Montañez — And that’s like a theme that I’m seeing repeated across the entire nation with all of my pastor friends from different locations. Having said that, there are still things that we have to do to get people from going to just attending to engaging, like you were saying. I think there’s a couple of things that I saw. Kayra Montañez — One of them is a big one, I would say, is like this idea of, attending versus belonging, right. So like first people actually want to come, but they don’t actually join people systems. So they come in person, they come online, but they don’t actually join any kind of people system. So when I say people system I’m thinking about groups, or dream teams, a support group, a class. That’s actually something that we started seeing a lot post-pandemic, and I would say it’s still here. So that’s one gap that I see. Kayra Montañez — The second gap that I see is digital versus relational. So obviously, we at Liquid have spent a lot of, we’ve invested a lot in our digital ministry, and we really believe online and in-person can both thrive at the same time, and we’re seeing that. Kayra Montañez — However, online services, while they can remove barriers, which is good, it also helps people stay anonymous unless there’s a clear bridge for those people to actually join in-person community. And so churches that haven’t figured out well how to do that will continue to see a gap between people who are attending, whether it’s in person or online, but not actually engaging. Kayra Montañez — There’s also the people who just come for big events, right? Rich Birch — Yep. Kayra Montañez — We’re approaching one of them, even as we film this podcast, next week is Christmas Eve. So we joke at Liquid, we have the CEOs, they come for Christmas, Easter, and other big events, but they don’t actually have a weekly rhythm of attending and engaging. Kayra Montañez — And then there’s people who I would say are curious about serving and for the most part are open to helping, but are not really ready to make a serving commitment and actually take on a very consistent role. So I would say across the breadth and width of churches, that’s probably something that would hit most people, no matter where you are. Rich Birch — Yeah, for sure. Kayra Montañez — Definitely we experience all of them at Liquid. Rich Birch — Yeah, I there was a lot there, in which I appreciate. and i appreciate the way you’ve kind of diagnosed. I think there’s multiple ways to kind of um diagnose or kind of pick apart – Hey, here are different aspects here, or different ways that we’re seeing this kind of attendance versus engagement question. So maybe, you know, pick apart those attending versus belonging. What has Liquid done? What are you doing to try to help move people from just attending, actually getting into those people systems? What does that? What are you learning on that front? Kayra Montañez — Yeah. You know, we’ve had a major shift at Liquid, I would say, in the past two years. The best way that I can explain this is with a gaming analogy, because I have teenagers and they love gaming. Rich Birch — I love it. Kayra Montañez — So if you um go back to when we used to play Mario Brothers, you remember Mario Brothers? Rich Birch — Sure, yeah. Kayra Montañez — Mario Brothers has prescribed path where if you did not follow the path, at some point Mario would die. Like if you stayed behind and the camera kept moving, the character would die. You remember that? Rich Birch — Yes, yes. Kayra Montañez — And that’s the way that a lot of churches, even today, approach helping people connect. There is a prescribed path for you, and we’re going to tell you what you need to do and what you have to do. Then Zelda came into the scene and Zelda is like, hey, choose your own adventure. You can start your adventure anywhere you want. Rich Birch — Right. Kayra Montañez — And so I feel like Liquid, we’ve shifted in that. We used to be Mario Brothers, like, hey, here’s a prescribed path for you. Here’s all the things that you have to do to connect. Whereas now we’ve shifted over the past two years into like, hey, we have a lot of things that we can offer you. And there are many different things depending on your season of life, on your felt needs, on what you’re looking for, on what you’re interested in, on what makes your heart beat. Tell us what you want to do and we’re going to help you. Kayra Montañez — And so in order for us to understand what is it that people want, we created an event that we do every month called Connect and Conversation. And the whole idea and the way that we market it is if you’re new to Liquid, or if you are not new, but you haven’t connected yet, you haven’t found your people, you haven’t found something that you want to be a part of, come to this event. Kayra Montañez — We feed you. We get to know you. And then we follow up personally with you. It’s very high level concierge, kind of a follow up system, where after we connect with you, we ask you, hey, what are you actually interested in? What are you looking for? Because your needs as an empty nester who’s been married for over 25 years, you’re parenting adult children who are already married are very different than mine who have two team have two teenagers. Rich Birch — Yep. Kayra Montañez — One of them is about to go to college, right? Rich Birch — Yep, yep. Kayra Montañez — And so that has actually produced incredible fruit from getting people who are attending. Rich Birch — Yep. Kayra Montañez — Now I’ve actually offered them something they’re interested in, which is making connections with people. And then from there, we follow up to offer, what do you need? Rich Birch — That’s so cool. Kayra Montañez — And everybody has different needs. Some people just wanna join teams because they’re just like, I just wanna serve. Some people, they really just need a lot of care. And so maybe they need a support group and we’re gonna offer that to you. Kayra Montañez — Some people may need marriage mentoring. We’re gonna offer that to you. So it really depends. And what we’ve seen is people taking significant next steps once they go out of that event. And that has really changed the past. In the past, we would only be marketing teams and groups, role and relationship, join, ah you know, get into a role and connect with a relationship. And while that’s still good, I’m not saying that’s not good or not needed. Rich Birch — Right. Kayra Montañez — It’s not the only thing that people are looking for. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s interesting. Can we, I’d love to dive just a little deeper on on that because I think there’s ah a really key learning there for lots of us. This idea, and you didn’t say it this way, but where my brain went to, you know, I think we have, we have for sure in the past done the thing where it’s like we have these giant funnels that we’re pushing everyone through. Rich Birch — And and the only question we’re really asking is where do you fit in our funnel? Kayra Montañez — Correct. Rich Birch — Like where, You know, and we and we push and literally, and this is no, you know, kind of slam on other systems, but it’s like, this is the, you know, step one, step two, step three, everyone do step one first, then you do step two, then you do step three. Rich Birch — So the the connecting conversation, that feels like highly, like it’s volunteer intensive. You got to get a lot of volunteers in there because it sounds like you’re having one-on-one conversations or something close to one-on-one. Unpack what that looks like. Maybe as a guest, if I arrive at that, what do I actually experience when I show up there? Kayra Montañez — So you you can register up until the time that we have the event. Rich Birch — Yep, that’s great. Kayra Montañez — So we do math you know magical math with the food and and the preparation so that we can just accept people who are going to come on the day of. Because we promote it, obviously, every week. And then the day of, we actually promote it. We get most people to show up the day of the event. Rich Birch — Right, okay. Kayra Montañez — So people will come. There’s going to be a lunch. And then they’re going to sit at a table with about five other people who have a facilitator at that table. Rich Birch — Okay. Kayra Montañez — And that facilitator is actually going to lead them through a series of relational icebreakers because the event is designed for you to first connect. You want to meet other people who are just like you. Maybe they’re new or they’re not new, but they haven’t connected yet with somebody. Rich Birch — That’s good. Kayra Montañez — And so there’s going to be a lot of relational icebreakers you know during the first part of the event. And then after that, we get into like, hey, what are you looking for? What are you hoping to get out of? What do you need? What are you interested in? We make notes. Rich Birch — How can we help? All that kind of stuff. Kayra Montañez — That facilitator takes really good notes based on what people are saying. And then the follow-up begins. Rich Birch — That’s so cool. I love that. That’s what a great learning. You know, I think so many times we’ve seen that step and for sure that echoes what I’ve seen in in a number of churches. There’s really a trend away from the class being the first step. Rich Birch — It’s like the stand that we used to do that thing where it was like, okay, someone stands up at the front and they’re going to talk for 50 minutes about why we’re such a great church. And, ah you know, that really has gone away. I would I would echo that, that we’ve seen that as ah as a best practice for sure. So let’s talk… Kayra Montañez — When we do measure… Rich Birch — Sorry, go ahead. No. Kayra Montañez — …oh sorry, as I was to say, we measure the activity of everyone who goes to Connect in Conversation and what they do. Rich Birch — Oh, that, tell me about that. Kayra Montañez — And so there’s, or ah how we say it at Liquid is it’s correlation, not causation. Like I can’t prove that if you go to this event, your next steps were a direct result of this event… Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. Kayra Montañez — …but we can correlate that because you came to the event you actually took these next steps, if that makes sense. Rich Birch — Yeah. Kayra Montañez — So we’ve seen tremendous, tremendous engagement grow because of that. Rich Birch — And that’s on Sundays. You do it on on campus after the last service, that sort of thing. Kayra Montañez — Every month. Yes, every month at every campus after the last service, we promote it up to the day of the event… Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Kayra Montañez — …and we do it rain or shine. Whether it’s five people or 10 or 50, obviously at our largest location, sometimes we have about 100 people show up every month to these events. Rich Birch — That’s great. I love that. That’s a great. You’re coming in hot, Kayra. Great learnings, even you know, with friends, we’ve got through the first question. Rich Birch — So yeah, and we’re, you know, it’s fantastic. So one of the one of the things I’d love to hear a little bit about, um you know, that when we look in the data, people’s anxiety, there’s there seems to be some anxiety around or concern around discipling people. We offer these discipleship pathways or engagement pathways. And it’s like, we do this stuff, but then people don’t actually take advantage of it. It’s like, we do, we offer small groups, but people don’t do them. Or people we offer classes and people don’t actually engage on them. Rich Birch —What are you doing to try to move to, to ensure people are actually engaging with the various pathways that you’re developing at Liquid to actually get them to use them? Kayra Montañez — So this is a very interesting question in this particular time because at Liquid we’re just about getting ready to or just ready to ah blow up small groups basically. Rich Birch — Oh, nice. Okay. I’d love to hear more. Kayra Montañez — Yeah, so I would say that small groups was the one metric that did not recover for our church post-pandemic. So even though our volunteer pipelines at times felt thin, we were able to have incredible momentum around that. We can talk more about that later. How did we do that? We recovered in attendance and giving, baptism, but we were not able to crack the code on small groups. We were at an all-time low, about 20% our church… Rich Birch — Oh, wow. Yeah. Kayra Montañez — …was engaged in small groups, pretty low. And so we started surveying people. Rich Birch — Yep. We’re like, what is it that people actually want from the small groups? Like, what is it that we’re not offering that they’re looking for? And the one, it was shocking to us that the number one thing, I mean, it shouldn’t be shocking because we are a church. Kayra Montañez — The number one thing that people wanted was to understand the Bible. So for the first time ever, we have uncoupled relational connection from biblical literacy. In the past, our small groups, the thing that was in the driver’s seat, I would say, was the relational connection. We wanted people to connect, to join a group so that they could make friends, do life together. We used to um promote it that way, if you remember. Do life together. Where are the people that you’re doing life together? Rich Birch — Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Kayra Montañez — For the first time ever, we’re actually putting biblical literacy in the front seat and relational connection on the passenger seat. So you will actually make connections, but that’s not the goal of this process right now. The process is for you to actually understand and read and study the word of God. In fact, our new tagline is to know the word of God so that you can love the God of the word. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. And is that so if you change the the container that that fits in or are you changing the like, like… Kayra Montañez — We did. We changed the container. Rich Birch — So what’s that look like? Kayra Montañez — So right now we’re offering people different levels of biblical literacy. Kayra Montañez — The biggest vehicle that we’re that we just piloted this fall through the book of Revelations, if you can believe it. So we’re like, why not start with the hardest book of the Bible? Rich Birch — Yes. Kayra Montañez — And what we did was we created a Bible study midweek on a Wednesday night where people would go in person and study the word of God in tables with other people. Now, obviously there’s facilitators who have been trained and vetted. And once you join a table, that was kind of like the table that you were going to go on this journey with, but it’s not a small group. It’s a, it’s a short term. It was 10 weeks. We went through the entire book of Revelations, 22 chapters. We would do homework in order to get ready for this midweek study, we would come, we would have a conversation around what did you put in question 10? Rich Birch — Yep. Kayra Montañez — What did I write? This was hard, I don’t understand. And then there was teaching. Kayra Montañez — And we also piloted doing that same thing with our high school students so that parents could actually come with their kids on the same day, drop their high school kiddos in their own cohort, and then they would go to their own biblical midweek you know Bible study. Kayra Montañez — And that was, too, a great success. So we are trying to figure out like what are the appropriate levels of biblical literacy that we can offer a congregation… Rich Birch — That’s so good. Kayra Montañez — …that is increasingly illiterate in biblic in in the Bible. Rich Birch — Yep. Kayra Montañez — And deep dive, make no mistake, is the highest level. So that’s not for everyone. And we understand that. And so the parts that we’re trying to figure out is what’s like the appropriate next level to that for somebody who’s not willing to come in person 10 weeks to do homework and study, you know, the actual Bible. Kayra Montañez — But, it was fascinating to just uncouple those two things for the first time. And I would say it’s in the right frame of, in the right approach. You’re still making friends. Rich Birch — Yes. Kayra Montañez — You’re just not, that’s just not being the driver. Rich Birch — Right. Yeah, I do wonder. So we for sure have seen that. I’ve seen this conversation. I don’t claim to be a small groups expert. I never have. Kayra Montañez — Me neither. Rich Birch — Like for 20, 30 years, it’s always been a mystery to me. I’m like, it’s like hard. It’s a hard system to run and to to build. And, but for sure, post COVID it it is, I would say that’s a universal concern that it’s like, whatever we used to do, I see this all over the place, whatever we used to do to try to get people into groups, we don’t do that anymore. We’re doing something completely different. I happen to be at Liquid this fall. I think you were speaking at a conference when I was there. Bummer… Kayra Montañez — I was, I missed you. Yeah. Rich Birch — And I saw the deep dive. I think that’s what it was called. Kayra Montañez — Yes. Rich Birch — Deep dive that night. And I remember, i remember thinking, I was like, Whoa, this is like, ah this is incredible. Like, you know, I don’t know how many people were there that night. There was a ton of people all lined up and ready to go. I’m like, that’s, That’s cool. I love that. Rich Birch — Well, let’s pivot. You kind of flagged it there, the volunteer piece. Kayra Montañez — Yes. Rich Birch — I’d love to know what you’re learning on this front, you know, to rebuild volunteer culture. We had this kind of, I don’t know when we’ll stop saying post-COVID. I don’t know whether we’ll be like that generation that was like after the like war or like after the depression where like for 40 years we’re going to be talking about it. Rich Birch — But it does still feel like we’re post-COVID. I don’t know when that is. But what have you done to kind of restart? How what’s going well on that front externally? Liquid feels like a incredibly volunteer you know robust culture – help us understand what’s that looking like what are you learning these days? Kayra Montañez — Sure. Yeah. I mean everything you said is still very much a factor. I mean, we are constantly having to work at this. This is never going to be a problem that I feel we’re ever going to solve. It’s really a tension that we’re managing. And sometimes tension feels better and sometimes it doesn’t feel good. Rich Birch — Right. Kayra Montañez — In fact, this year, I would say in March, we probably had like our biggest crisis in the broadcast campus where our church growth so far outpaced the amount of people that were serving that we were finding ourselves having to close rooms for Liquid family… Rich Birch — Ooh. Kayra Montañez — …not because we we hit ratios, but because we didn’t have enough volunteers. And that doesn’t feel great… Rich Birch — No. Kayra Montañez — …especially if you’re a new here family, right? Rich Birch — Yes. Kayra Montañez — And so we were like, all right, we need to do something really aggressive. And the best way that I can explain it is we did like a try before you buy. Rich Birch — Okay. Kayra Montañez — Very low approach… Rich Birch — Yep. Kayra Montañez — …low hanging fruit. We said, hey, we we casted a vision, right? It’s never about we need volunteers, but we actually told a really significant story of where’s all the fruit that the Lord is bringing to this church, all the spiritual fruit that we’re seeing, like people are getting saved, people are getting baptized, they’re coming to get to know Jesus, they’re studying the Bible. Kayra Montañez — It was incredible. Kayra Montañez — But we need people to use their spiritual gifts. And so we came up with a campaign called For the One. And everything was geared for that one person. Like, who’s who are you going to go serve? Who’s the one that you’re going to go serve? Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Kayra Montañez — And the try before you buy was, we’re going to give you a hoodie. We designed a hoodie. It was called, it was, you know, at the tagline For the One. And the key is you only get it after you serve a couple of times. Rich Birch — Okay, that’s cool. Kayra Montañez — So this is the try before you buy. You know, you’re going to try it out. Rich Birch — Yes. You’re not going to go through the whole background, pipeline, covenant process because we need people now and we need them quick. Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah. Kayra Montañez — So you’re trying before you’re buying. But if you like it and we’re going to make sure that first serve experience is incredible for you, then we want you to buy it. Rich Birch — That’s so good. Kayra Montañez — And we’re going to reward you by giving you swag that’s limited, exclusive. Not everybody’s going to get it. Rich, you would be surprised. Like I’m still to this day, i have been at Liquid, it’ll be 13 years in April. And I am still shocked by how much people, the gamification of playing to people’s particular interests… Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. Kayra Montañez — …whether it’s FOMO, they don’t want to miss out, whether it’s the idea of collecting exclusive apparel. Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah. Kayra Montañez — There’s something here for everyone that just draws people out. Rich Birch — It’s true. It’s true. Kayra Montañez — We had over 400 people sign up for the one. Rich Birch — Wow. That’s amazing. That’s great. Kayra Montañez — It was incredible. And we were able to tell amazing stories of people who were coming and showing up and serving, whether it was our special needs kiddos or high school whatever you want to call it. We had it. And and I would say the appeal of a try before you buy, how can you shortchange without? So this is key. You don’t want to reduce the quality. But you do want to shorten your pipeline so that you can get people quicker to try it. And then once they actually feel like, hey, I really enjoy this, now we’re going to get you through the whole, you know, rest of the process, right? But you can still serve while we do that. Kayra Montañez — So that was a huge thing. And then obviously, you know, like the free apparel swag, that always is a nice incentive to give to people. So that was huge. Rich Birch — It’s true. Kayra Montañez — It was very successful. And that’s what I would recommend is like, hey, can you run, try before you buy little events with like swag, and like you you get you have people serve for a limited amount of time. Like you don’t give them the swag immediately. You make them work for it. Rich Birch — Right. Yes. Kayra Montañez — They got to serve three, four times before you give it to them. Rich Birch — Yeah, we did a similar thing last summer. Our kids ministry team did a similar thing last summer where we did the summer serve, which we hadn’t done in in actually a number of years. And they they pulled that out and did summer serve. And it was the same thing. If you signed up, you got a t-shirt, a specific t-shirt for that. Rich Birch — And then you, there was, they basically were asking you to serve once in June, once in July, once in August, like once a month, just for the summertime. And if you served, um I forget exactly what the ratio was, but it was, you got entered in a draw for however many times. And basically, so if you served all three, you got like 10 times the number of draw things to win. And it was all this stuff that you, you could win. And it was like really great gifts. Kayra Montañez — Yes. Rich Birch — And you would think that that should not motivate people. Kayra Montañez — But it does. Rich Birch — But it does. Kayra Montañez — It does. Rich Birch — And and you know and it was and, you know, they did it in really fun, you know, hey this is going to be a fun thing to be a part of. Talk to me about the, because there’s a friction thing there to learn around trying to reduce the friction the kind of onboarding friction, I think over time that stuff can become, you know, it’s, it’s the, we actually are like our, we can become just too hard for our people. Kayra Montañez — Yeah. Rich Birch — What did you learn through that process in, in trying to find that balance of like, we want to make it easier to onboard people, but we still want to, is there any kind of lessons from that when you look back on that? Kayra Montañez — To me, the the lesson really is, again, there is a tension between you can’t shortchange, especially when it comes to kids. I can’t emphasize this enough. Rich Birch — No, yeah, absolutely. Yep. Kayra Montañez — Like I oversee all of these ministries and it would be not on my watch will will this happen, right? Rich Birch — No, yeah, yeah. Kayra Montañez — So we have to make be very sure that we’re not shortchanging the safety procedures. Rich Birch — Yeah. Yep. Kayra Montañez — At the same time recognizing these things can take some time, right? Like we ask people to get a background check, they have to be interviewed, they have to sign a covenant, they have to have a reference. I mean, these things this is a lengthy process. Rich Birch — Yes. Kayra Montañez — And I stand by it. We have to do that. Rich Birch — Yep. Kayra Montañez — At the same time, can we actually live in a world where we are marrying our need to have someone in the room while also still doing all of these things simultaneously, not actually waiting for all of this to happen so that then they can come. Kayra Montañez — And that’s kind of how we figured it out. Our Liquid family pastor came up with a process where she’s like, okay, we can shorten it this time. They’re only going to do these three things, not four, not six. But while they’re in the room trying it, we’re going to continue to do the other remaining four. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. Kayra Montañez — It’s messy. It’s not always the best thing to do in an ideal world. You are not doing that. But when you’re faced with crisis, then you need to come up with, you know, resourceful ideas. Kayra Montañez — And so what I would say about the volunteer pipeline is this. There are short-term problems that you have to solve while you’re still working on this very long-term. Like this is a culture that you have to create. Rich Birch — Yeah. Kayra Montañez — And in order for you to create a culture, you have to tell stories. You have to celebrate what you want to be repeated. have to make people feel thanked, encouraged, appreciated, seen. You those are all long-term things that you have to be doing all the time. This is like nonstop. Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. Can’t take the, you can’t take the gas off that pedal for sure. Pedal off that gas. Kayra Montañez — Correct. You cannot take your foot off the the pedal. But at the same time, there are things that are short term that you really do have to also do. And sometimes that will require teaching from the stage where you’re actually envisioning people about why this matters so much. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Kayra Montañez — And this is what we did in March with the For the One. So I would say it’s it’s both/and; it’s not either/or. And so if that’s helpful, that’s how I would approach it. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s super good. That’s good. If there was a church that was, if you were sitting across the table from an executive pastor, maybe you’re at a conference or someone drops in your office and they’re, they’re feeling really stuck on this engagement issue. They feel low. Like it’s people were, maybe it’s groups, it’s teams, it’s all of it. Like it’s, we’re not moving people through any kind of pipeline. Rich Birch — What would be some of those first steps or first recommendations, first things you’d have them look at, maybe like a diagnostic or a first couple of things that you’d have them think about in this area? Kayra Montañez — Well, I would say if there’s a way for them to know of the people who are attending and maybe they figure this out with new here, how many of those people take one next step within the first month? Rich Birch — That’s good. Kayra Montañez — That would be one diagnostic that I would first see if I can do with the data that I have and the data that they collect and they actually figured that out. Rich Birch — Yep. Yeah, that’s good. Kayra Montañez — If they’re able to do that, then the next diagnostic would be what percent actually move into a people system… Rich Birch — Yep. Kayra Montañez — …whether it’s a group, a deep dive experience, a dream team within 60 to 90 days, right? Rich Birch — Yep. Kayra Montañez — Because if you do that, you’re going to find the blockage. You’re actually going to discover Maybe our attendance is fine. We don’t have an invest and invite problem, but maybe what we have a problem with is our conversion rate. And so then you can start to identify what is it about our conversion that we need to fix? Kayra Montañez — Is it that we have ah unclear on-ramps? Or is it that our processes are too high friction? It’s too hard people to get involved. If you actually find like, no, actually people are taking next steps. Great. But they’re not sticking to it. Then you have a different problem. Then you can actually diagnose… Rich Birch — Yes, yes. Kayra Montañez — …oh, maybe the first serve experience actually wasn’t sticky enough. It wasn’t welcoming. Maybe there were issues with scheduling. Maybe we didn’t give clear information. So you can kind of figure out what the problem is based on how you’re measuring it and what you’re discovering. That’s how I would start if I didn’t know what the problem was. Does that make sense? Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. That makes total sense. And, you know, it it definitely aligns with one of my bugaboos that I constantly driving with executive pastors. When you look at the actual numbers—I and I have not run into a church yet that this is not the case—most churches actually have a front door problem. They don’t have a back door problem. They their actual problem that we think we feel like, oh, like people aren’t sticking and staying in groups, they’re not staying and volunteering. But statistically, that’s actually not true. When most of the time, if you look at, okay, all the people that end up in a group, what is the kind of churn rate on that? Whatever that number is, I’ve never seen a church where it’s higher than the people we’re missing on the front end with exactly with what you said is how many people are removing from new here to taking the first step in the first month? Rich Birch — Because that you lose a ton of people in that door right there. That is a, you know, by a multiple of 10 or 20, like it’s a lot more that we’re missing out. And, you know, generally in most churches… Kayra Montañez — And can I just [inaudible] to that? Rich Birch — Yeah. Kayra Montañez — Because I just want encourage people, like, figure out a way to target your new here audience. Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. Kayra Montañez — So at Liquid, for example, if you come for the first time, not only do we encourage, highly encourage you to tell us that you’re here for the first time because we give you an awesome gift. Rich Birch — Yes. Kayra Montañez — Lots of churches do this, but then we survey people who came for the first time. Rich Birch — Yeah. Kayra Montañez — And based on what they answer, they receive a custom follow-up process for the first 30 days. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. Kayra Montañez — We don’t, so in that regard, like it is worth to look at that. Rich Birch — Yes. Kayra Montañez — Because you’re going to find out a lot of information and a lot of data about what people are choosing to do, where are they going, why they’re not sticking to it or why they’re not even going in the first place. Rich Birch — Yeah. Kayra Montañez — Like I’m shocked that I’ve been to churches sometimes to speak and they don’t actually really do like a new here call out. Like they don’t. Rich Birch — Yeah, I was going to say that. You said, oh, churches do this. Kayra Montañez — Maybe not. Rich Birch — And I’d be like, Kayra, I’ve been to way too many churches where they don’t do any of that. And they’re like, well, we’re not really sure. And I’m like, this is a solvable problem. We can fix this. Kayra Montañez — Yes. Yes. Rich Birch — There’s like real things you can do here. Actually, I worked with a church last year, a fairly large church in 2024, where they were experiencing some of these issues and so and I was like I basically said the same thing I just said, I’m like you’re losing people on the front end. And they’re like they’re like well we do a gift. And I’m like no you don’t. And I said there’s a and there’s a few things to fix around that. In 2025 the year we just ended, they received we made a few changes it’s not about me there’s about them they made a bunch of changes, they ended up receiving 5,000 more first-time guest contacts than they did 2024. Kayra Montañez — Wow. Just like we’ve always told it to do. Rich Birch — Now they did not grow by people but it’s just by focusing on that, right? Kayra Montañez — Amazing. Rich Birch — It’s just by like saying, hey, how are we what are we going to do to ensure that that step goes well with folks? So anyways, there’s huge opportunity there and in lots of churches. Kayra, you’ve been incredibly generous to give us your time at this time of year. As you’re thinking, kind of last question, as we’re thinking about 2026, what are some of those questions that are floating around in your head as you think about Liquid, as you think about the future? What are some things that you’re wrestling with that you’re wondering about that you’re contemplating as we go into this year? Kayra Montañez — Oh my gosh, Rich, so many. After this conversation, you know, I really am interested to see what’s going to happen with our discipleship model since we just blew it up. Rich Birch — Yes, yep. Kayra Montañez — I’m helping all of that and changing the way that we even onboard leaders. Like I’m really invested in seeing this through. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. Kayra Montañez — I also totally unrelated to this, but we just launched, I think in the survey, one of the questions that was asked was what’s the best idea that you had in 2025? Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, right. Kayra Montañez — And I was like, well, I feel like one of our best ideas was to use AI to launch a Spanish service. And I am really invested in that in seeing like, how do we continue to grow that service? How do we continue to grow that ministry? We’re launching new ministries in 2025, or 2026. So that always feels exciting and daunting. Kayra Montañez — So there’s just the work never ends. And there’s always it is an exciting and fascinating time to be in the church. I’ll say that. Rich Birch — I would agree. I totally would agree. Yeah, it’s the best. I would think, literally, I think this is the best season that I’ve been involved in ministry for sure. Rich Birch — For folks that don’t know what you’re doing with Spanish ministry, give us the 60 second, explain that again. Because I think I keep pointing churches to you saying, have you heard what Liquid’s doing? You go talk to them. So tell us about that. Kayra Montañez — So basically we have a Spanish service. We do have live hosting in Español. We have live worship in Español. But then we take our English message and we pass it through an AI service called Heygen, which actually uses the communicator’s voice and matches the words to their lips and they’re just preaching, they preach it in Spanish. Even if they’re not bilingual, they will preach it in Spanish. And it’s like you, Rich, are speaking in Spanish. Your words match to your voice. Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah, it’s it’s amazing. Kayra Montañez — People get to hear the the gospel and the message in their language. So it’s been fascinating to learn who we’re reaching, who’s coming, who likes that kind of a thing. You know, as a Spanish speaker myself, I’m like, would I go to a service where the message wasn’t actually authentic Spanish and it’s an AI generated? Kayra Montañez — I believe in the quality of our communication so much that I actually have to say, yes, I would. Because like last year, this year, we took our entire church through the book of Revelation. Tim spent 25 weeks teaching us the hardest book of the Bible. Kayra Montañez — The fruit that that endeavor produced is incredible. And so when I think about what we’re doing, I’m like, I believe in that so much that I do think this is a this is a thing that’s actually good to do. Even if people would who would think like, why would they go to that and not like an authentic Spanish speaker? Rich Birch — Yeah, interesting. And that, and you’re, you’ve been a year, that’s been basically almost a year you’ve been doing that now. Kayra Montañez — A year. A year. Rich Birch — And, and you’re be continuing to do it. So obviously something’s working. There’s some sort of version of like, Hey, we’re, we feel. Kayra Montañez — We’re continuing to do it. we’re seeing We’re seeing the fruit. We’re seeing baptisms, people giving their life to Christ, getting baptized, showing up and joining teams, um reaching families. We’re reaching multigenerational families where the parents go to the Spanish service, the kids go to the English service because it’s simultaneous, right? Well, the English is going on, the Spanish is going on. So families get to decide. It’s just really interesting to watch. Obviously, it’s been challenging in the U.S. to grow a Spanish service because of everything that’s been happening. Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah… Kayra Montañez — But it’s just been really fascinating to see like the dynamics of who we’re reaching, who’s is sharing like who’s excited about it, and then using technology to further the gospel. It’s always exciting. Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s fantastic. I know I was goofing around with Heygen a little bit. And the part that actually, this was you know almost a year ago when you guys started doing that that, one of the tests I ran that actually convinced me was, so I was like taking videos of me and I would send them to like a friend who speaks Spanish. And I sent to a friend who speaks, you know, a couple of languages that it was doing, but then I did the reverse. There’s a great church, Nouvelle Vie. It’s a French speaking church, large church, be very similar to Liquid, but they’re French speaking. And so I took one of the, the lead pastors from that. I took a clip of his message and translated into English. And I was blown away. I was like, Oh my word. Like, Kayra Montañez — It is getting better and better every day. Rich Birch — I was I was shocked. I was like, oh, that that is, yeah, could I tell? Yeah, but this guy’s an incredible communicator. And you know similar to you and Tim and the team at at Liquid, I’m like, I could see that work anyway. Rich Birch — So that’s exciting. Kayra, it’s so great to see you. Kayra Montañez — Thank you, Rich. Rich Birch — Thanks so much for having time with us today. If people want to connect with you or with Liquid, where do we want to send them online? Kayra Montañez — Sure. So my name Kayra, K-A-Y-R-A at liquidchurch.com. Happy to connect with anybody have questions. Rich Birch — Thanks so much. Thanks for being here today.

Welcome to the Practical Church podcast, brought to you in partnership with Mission Support. Mission Support This episode was brought to you by Mission Support.  Stay focused on your mission and let Mission Support help you with everything you didn't go to seminary for! Get support from experts with decades of experience working with churches who know your unique needs and challenges. Click here to talk with a guide today & love being a pastor again! HERE ARE THE SIX CHURCH PREDICTIONS I DISCUSS IN THIS EPISODE Normal sized churches will continue to miss on vertical video The political vibe shift will significantly lessen - do not cower from God's word Livestreaming services increasingly become unhelpful  Churches that preach expository sermons will reach more people than those that do not You will not grow and will impact fewer people if you confuse "non-politcal" with "non-biblical"  Churches won't plant unless part of denomination or network Get more church tips and advice Click here to join the Practical Church Facebook group

Welcome to Walking the Way. My name is Ray, and I really want to say thank you to everyone for listening in as we continue to explore what it means to have a regular rhythm of worship.CreditsOpening PrayerRay Borrett Bible verseIsaiah 26:13           Thought for the dayRay Borrett Bible PassageIsaiah 26New Revised Standard Version, Updated Edition. Copyright © 2021 National Council of Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide. Prayer HandbookClick here to download it Supporting Walking the WayIf you want to support Walking the Way, please go to: https://ko-fi.com/S6S4WXLBBor you can subscribe to the channel: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/walkingtheway/subscribe To contact Ray:Please leave a comment or a review. I want to find out what people think and how we make it better.www.rayborrett.co.ukwalkingthewaypodcast@outlook.comwww.instagram.com/walkingtheway1@raybrrtt

Is America in revival? Well, not quite, according to Barna CEO David Kinnaman, who joins Carey to discuss 2026 church trends. New data shows overall American Christianity is still in decline AND that Gen Z men are dialing into Jesus, young adults are the most churched group in America, and that we're setting ourselves up for a succession crisis. 

As violence erupts around the world, how must we respond to those who worship power? In Venezuela, global power has reshaped lives overnight, and Elizabeth Sendek and Julio Isaza join Mark Labberton to reflect on faith, fear, and Christian witness amid political upheaval in Latin America. "It made me question, if power is the ultimate good, then questions of morality or theology have no place. We have chosen our idol." Together they discuss how experiences of dictatorship, displacement, and pastoral caution shape Christian responses to invasion and regime change; the relationship between power and idolatry; the moral realities that come with violent and nonviolent action; fear and pastoral responsibility; the global impact of diaspora and migration; how prayer informs action; and how the church bears faithful witness under ruthless power. –––––––––––––––––– Episode Highlights "It made me question, if power is the ultimate good, then questions of morality or theology have no place. We have chosen our idol." "Prayer is a spiritual resource, valuable, needed, urgent every day, in times of peace and in times of crisis." "Prayer must also go alongside personal and collective actions in the defense of life, justice, freedom, reconciliation, and peace." "They are very cautious, because they are not sure who is in control." "We should not normalize violence just because it has always existed in history." –––––––––––––––––– About Elizabeth Sendek Elizabeth Sendek is a theologian and educator specializing in Latin American Christianity, theology and power, and the church's public witness under political violence. Her work draws from lived experience across Latin America, particularly contexts shaped by dictatorship, corruption, displacement, and ecclesial resilience. She has taught theology in academic and pastoral settings, engaging questions of ethics, political theology, and Christian responsibility in fragile societies. Sendek is widely respected for her ability to connect historical memory, biblical theology, and contemporary crises, especially regarding migration, authoritarianism, and Christian hope. Her scholarship and public engagement consistently emphasize prayer joined with concrete action, resisting both naïveté and cynicism. She speaks regularly to churches, students, and leaders seeking faithful responses to power and suffering. About Julio Isaza Julio Isaza, born in Colombia, is married to Katie Isaza and is the father of Samuel and Benjamin. He served with the Covenant Church of Colombia from 1995 to 2006 and later earned a master of divinity degree in Chicago, where he lived for six years. Between 2012 and 2015, he worked in the formation of university students and young professionals with Serve Globally in Medellín, Colombia. From 2016 to 2025, he served in peace-building processes in conflict areas of Colombia and also as a professor at the Biblical Seminary of Colombia, teaching in the areas of missional theology, cultural context, and holistic impact strategies. During this time, he also worked with Indigenous communities in the Colombian rainforest, engaging in oral theology initiatives. His work has focused on holistic discipleship, theological education, and peace-building. He holds a master's degree in Conflict and Peace from the University of Medellín and is currently pursuing a PhD in Theology and Peace at the Oxford Centre for Mission Studies in England. A US citizen, he resides in Minnesota with his family, where he is writing his doctoral dissertation titled "Cultivating Integral (Biblical) Peace in a Context of Socio-environmental Violence." –––––––––––––––––– Helpful Links And Resources Princeton Theological Seminary https://www.ptsem.edu Psalm 73 (New International Version) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+73&version=NIV Brownsville Covenant Church (David Swanson) https://www.brownsvillecovenant.org Christians for Social Action https://christiansforsocialaction.org –––––––––––––––––– Show Notes News of Venezuelan invasion and presidential extrication Awakening to international headlines and Colombian news coverage Power displacing morality and theology "It made me question, if power is the ultimate good, then questions of morality or theology have no place." "We have chosen our idol." Violence beyond headlines and unseen civilian consequences Personal stories from Caracas neighbourhoods and bomb damage "You see in the news about Maduro taken, but you don't see the consequences of what happened." "Some of her family was killed in Caracas because of the bombs." Childhood shaped by armed conflict in rural Colombia Guerrilla groups, military raids, and forced displacement Paramilitary violence and state-backed terror in towns "When I was a child, I would draw helicopters and militaries killing each other." Conversion shaped by studying the life of Jesus "When I began to study the gospel, I thought that Jesus's way is not a violent way." Pastoral caution under volatile political regimes Fear shaping Christian speech and public silence "For the sake of my congregation, I cannot voice any opinion." Churches continuing ministry amid uncertainty "They agreed that this time is an opportunity to share the gospel of hope." Prayer as resistance and sustenance "Prayer is a spiritual resource, valuable, needed, urgent every day, in times of peace and in times of crisis." Prayer joined with embodied action "Prayer must also go alongside personal and collective actions in the defense of life, justice, freedom, reconciliation, and peace." Long histories of dictatorship shaping Latin American theology Skepticism toward purely academic liberation theology Credibility rooted in lived solidarity with the poor Diaspora pressure and forced return narratives "Now people say Venezuelans can go back to their own country." Xenophobia and fear within host communities Displacement as ongoing trauma for migrant families Scripture shaping hope amid cynicism "When I tried to understand all this, it troubled me deeply, till I entered the sanctuary of God." Refusing to normalize power's violence "Our call is not to normalize it, nor to declare it an act of God." –––––––––––––––––– #FaithAndPolitics #LatinAmerica #ChristianWitness #PowerAndViolence #Venezuela #ChurchAndState #PublicTheology Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.  

As we look at the fourth church in Revelation we come to the church in the city in Thyatira. They had excelled in many good works such as love, service, faith, and patient endurance. These works was not just good fruit in their life, it had increased since it's Genesis. There were different people in the church doing different things, some good, some bad to a different degree. As we study this church, we will see the different ways that Jesus judges and weighs out different types of people. (Proverbs 11:1) Josiahmovius12@yahoo.comBible portal website:https://www.bibleportal.com/commentaries

Today's episode is a punch in the gut to passive Christianity. Paul M. Neuberger calls out one of the Church's most dangerous phrases—“God wins in the end”—and exposes it for what it's become: a spiritual snooze button. We're not called to be spectators. We're called to be warriors. Comfortable faith? Dead faith. Silent faith? Fruitless faith.The cost of inaction? Souls lost. Churches weakened. Families drifting. Christ isn't looking for secret admirers. He's raising up obedient soldiers.Jesus is still Lord. His victory is certain. But what will YOU do before the clock runs out? When your moment of truth arrives, will you speak up or clock out?Buckle up. This one's raw, real, and rooted in Scripture. "In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." –James 2:17 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?" –Matthew 25:26. "But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk." –Luke 12:45Episode Highlights:01:14 – And somewhere along the way, ‘God wins in the end' stopped being fuel for obedience and became permission for apathy. It becomes the sentence that Christians use to emotionally disengage when culture collapses, when sin spreads, and when obedience feels uncomfortable. Instead of urgency, it produces indifference. Instead of courage, it creates silence. Instead of action, it justifies delay. And let me be clear, that's not faith. That's spiritual laziness disguised as theology. And boy howdy, does Satan ever love it.17:07 – When Christians choose to do nothing, the consequences aren't hypothetical. They're immediate, measurable, and devastating. Inaction doesn't preserve the status quo, it accelerates decay. When believers stay quiet, sin doesn't pause, it advances. Scripture never treats passivity as harmless. In fact, it treats it as dangerous disobedience. God doesn't judge his people only for what they do wrong, but also for what they refuse to do right. One of the most sobering examples comes from Jesus himself.29:40 – It's a command. Jesus didn't gather his disciples after the resurrection to offer encouragement. He issued marching orders. Matthew, chapter 28, verses 19 through 20, records it clearly when it says this, ‘Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.' There is no fine print. There is no exemption clause. There is no version that says unless it makes you uncomfortable.Connect with Paul M. NeubergerWebsite

Welcome to Walking the Way. My name is Ray, and I really want to say thank you to everyone for listening in as we continue to explore what it means to have a regular rhythm of worship.CreditsOpening Prayerhttps://www.faithandworship.com/Tuesday.htm#gsc.tab=0 Bible verseIsaiah 25:18           Thought for the dayRay Borrett Bible PassageIsaiah 25New Revised Standard Version, Updated Edition. Copyright © 2021 National Council of Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide. Prayer HandbookClick here to download it Supporting Walking the WayIf you want to support Walking the Way, please go to: https://ko-fi.com/S6S4WXLBBor you can subscribe to the channel: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/walkingtheway/subscribe To contact Ray:Please leave a comment or a review. I want to find out what people think and how we make it better.www.rayborrett.co.ukwalkingthewaypodcast@outlook.comwww.instagram.com/walkingtheway1@raybrrtt

METHODISM Podcast Episode 2: How Pastors are Appointed to ChurchesHave you ever wondered:+ how pastors are selected and appointed to local churches? + what Bishops help do in overseeing churches in the United Methodist faith tradition? + what is the difference between an Elder and a Deacon in the United Methodist Church?+ how you can help Oak Grove prepare for Dr. Beth LaRocca-Pitt's retirement in June 2026 and the announcement of who will follow her as the Senior Pastor at OGUMC? Well, you're in luck! In this 2nd episode of the Methodism Podcast we'll hear a live-recorded conversation and Q&A with retired Bishop Larry Goodpaster and retired District Superintendent Rev. Dr. David Naglee. participate in the congregational life of Oak Grove. Many thanks to the participants in this discussion and to the many church members who attended this live recording on Sunday January 11th, 2026 in the Oak Grove Sanctuary. And, special thanks to Bishop Goodpaster and Dr. Naglee!You can listen, watch, & subscribe to the Podcast on:+ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@OGUMC/podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠+ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0nGIcxSt5ToGbAcs0dmua2?si=3328d0411f194865 + Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oak-grove-umc-podcast/id1695962000 — Sunday Worship: 8:30 & 11am* Traditional Worship and 1045am* Modern Worship.*livestreamed at YouTube.com/ogumc #newyear #methodism #umc #ogumc

Brandon Steele | 01.11.26 | ethoschurch.org

In todays episode I share 5 ways churches are ruining young youth pastors. If you want to have the best year in youth ministry you've ever had, check out my store for resources that will help you do just that https://youthminresources.gumroad.com/

Welcome to Walking the Way. My name is Ray, and I really want to say thank you to everyone for listening in as we continue to explore what it means to have a regular rhythm of worship.CreditsOpening Prayerhttps://www.plough.com/en/subscriptions/daily-prayer Bible verseIsaiah 24:18a           Thought for the dayRay Borrett Bible PassageIsaiah 24New Revised Standard Version, Updated Edition. Copyright © 2021 National Council of Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide. Prayer HandbookClick here to download it Supporting Walking the WayIf you want to support Walking the Way, please go to: https://ko-fi.com/S6S4WXLBBor you can subscribe to the channel: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/walkingtheway/subscribe To contact Ray:Please leave a comment or a review. I want to find out what people think and how we make it better.www.rayborrett.co.ukwalkingthewaypodcast@outlook.comwww.instagram.com/walkingtheway1@raybrrtt 

Karen Mason, of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, joins us on Church in Action to share the results of her study on those who experience suicidal ideation in our churches. Don't miss this insightful conversation. Follow Us!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/visionnewenglandFacebook: https://facebook.com/visionnewenglandWebsite: https://www.visionnewengland.org

Started the week by talking about t he big protests in Iran, and talked about the ballistic missile Russia launched in to Ukraine. Plus the Minneapolis ICE shooting, France hypnotherapist rape trial, Yemen secessionists disband, and LDS churches in Idaho adding security after suffering a series of break-ins by burglars who film themselves having sex. Music: Fetty Wap/"I Wonder"

αποκάλυψη (apokálypsi) - apocalypse; the revealing of something previously hidden. We are diving into the book of Revelation - what it is and what it definitely is not - and what a wild ride it's going to be! Imagine John, having seen the entirety of what was to come, being tasked with communicating it all. Sometimes, that old phrase aptly suits... "You just had to be there."

Antioch Norman is a community church located in Norman, OK. We are a spiritual family with a global mission to make disciples, plant churches, and work for the peace and prosperity of our cities. As part of the Antioch Movement of Churches, we all share a passion for Jesus and His purposes in the earth.Website | https://www.antiochnorman.comInstagram | https://www.instagram.com/antiochnorman/1330 E Lindsey St Norman, OK 73071‎

Churches have Red Flags that give you clues if they are a church of man, or a church of God.

Scripture: Revelation 1 Dr. Stephen Kim begins his series of classes from the book of Revelation, covering an overview of the book and the 7 Churches of Revelation. Slides Download DTS Notes Download

Sponsors: The Clergy Confessions Podcast (www.clergyconfessions.com); Gardner-Webb University School of Divinity (www.gardner-webb.edu); Baptist Seminary of Kentucky (www.bsk.edu); Baylor's Garland School of Social Work; The Community Transformation Center at Palm Beach Atlantic University (www.pbactc.org); The Center for Congregational Health (healthychurch.org); and The Baptist House of Studies at Union Presbyterian Seminary (www.upsem.edu/). Join the listener community at www.classy.org/campaign/podcast-…r-support/c251116. Music from HookSounds.com.

Is America witnessing a quiet Christian revival - and why does it terrify the cultural gatekeepers? For decades, Christians were told to sit down, shut up, and stay out of politics. That faith belonged in private. That masculinity was toxic. That truth was negotiable. But something has shifted. Young men are pushing back. Churches are filling back up. And a generation raised on chaos is searching for meaning, order, and moral clarity - whether the culture likes it or not.In this episode, I'm joined by Bryce Eddy to break down why Christian values are re-entering public life, why Gen Z men are rejecting secular nonsense, and why politics can never be separated from belief systems. We dig into masculinity, persuasion vs arguing, Charlie Kirk's legacy, weak men vs dangerous men, and why selling good ideas matters more than winning debates. This isn't about nostalgia - it's about whether a free society can survive without a moral foundation. Order ⁠Cardio Miracle⁠ (⁠CardioMiracle.com/TBNS⁠) for 15% off and take a step towards better heart health and overall well-being! WATCH The Brian Nichols Show on ⁠YouTube⁠ & ⁠Rumble⁠ Follow Brian on social media: X.com/Twitter ⁠(https://www.briannicholsshow.com/twitter⁠) & Facebook (⁠https://www.briannicholsshow.com/facebook⁠) LIKE, SHARE, and SUBSCRIBE to ⁠The Brian Nichols Show ⁠for 3 new episodes per week! Email Listener Questions to ⁠brian@briannicholsshow.com⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is America witnessing a quiet Christian revival - and why does it terrify the cultural gatekeepers? For decades, Christians were told to sit down, shut up, and stay out of politics. That faith belonged in private. That masculinity was toxic. That truth was negotiable. But something has shifted. Young men are pushing back. Churches are filling back up. And a generation raised on chaos is searching for meaning, order, and moral clarity - whether the culture likes it or not. Studio Sponsor: ⁠Cardio Miracle⁠ - "Unlock the secret to a healthier heart, increased energy levels, and transform your cardiovascular fitness like never before.": ⁠CardioMiracle.com/TBNS⁠ In this episode, I'm joined by Bryce Eddy to break down why Christian values are re-entering public life, why Gen Z men are rejecting secular nonsense, and why politics can never be separated from belief systems. We dig into masculinity, persuasion vs arguing, Charlie Kirk's legacy, weak men vs dangerous men, and why selling good ideas matters more than winning debates. This isn't about nostalgia - it's about whether a free society can survive without a moral foundation. ❤️ Order ⁠Cardio Miracle⁠ (⁠CardioMiracle.com/TBNS⁠) for 15% off and take a step towards better heart health and overall well-being!

November 30,2025

Patrick invites listeners on a wild ride through fifty-year-old rock hits, challenging musical memory with rapid-fire clips while surprising everyone with sharp recall. Amid the energy, Patrick responds to callers like Leo, whose honest struggle with showing reverence at Mass unfolds into a breakthrough about faith and personal authenticity. Mixed in are clear answers about Catholic customs, confessions about Communion practices, and encouragement to discover accessible, spiritually-nourishing resources, all wrapped up with quick-witted exchanges that keep things lively and real. Patrick is quizzed on popular songs turning 50 years old (00:38) Leo - You told the story about a Mormon believing in the Eucharist. It seems most Catholics don't do that much to show reverence. I struggle with accepting the Body of Christ. (06:12) Maria Christina - My son's pastor decided that the kids needed to be older. They waited until High School. By the time that happened, my son didn't want to do it but we made him do it anyway. Was the sacrament valid? (19:48) Jackie - I wish that young people would come back sooner instead of later. If they come back too late, Churches might be closed. (25:51) George - I had Confirmation and baptism as a baby and Communion around 7. When I was around 11 or 12, I started to understand. Is there a canonical process for people to recommit to their Confirmation or recommit to their faith? (29:36) Glorie - Is it okay to receive Holy Communion on the hand from a Eucharistic Minister? (37:47) Jake - Should we pray to God and Jesus separately? (46:52)

Every pastor has seen it. Churches splitting hairs over things that don't matter. Beard length. Carpet color. Playground equipment. These disputes may sound absurd, but they reveal something much deeper. Small conflicts are rarely about what they seem. Beneath the surface, emotions, control, and trust are at play. In this episode, Josh and Sam explore why trivial fights erupt in churches, what they reveal about church health, and how leaders can keep the small stuff from becoming spiritual landmines. The post Church Conflict: Five Common Ways Small Fights Turn into Big Problems appeared first on Church Answers.

Apply to Join Churchfront Premium Apply to Join Churchfront Pro Free Worship and Production Toolkit Shop Our Online Courses Join us at the Churchfront Conference Follow Churchfront on Instagram or TikTok: @churchfront Follow on Twitter: @realchurchfront Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront Musicbed SyncID: MB01VWQ69XRQNSN   Carey Nieuwhof Interview - Podcast Notes Overview Conversation with Carey Nieuwhof about the shift in modern church worship from entertainment-focused to encounter-focused experiences, live streaming strategy, and church growth in the digital age. Key Themes 1. The Shift: Entertainment vs. Encounter The Problem with Modern Church Production Social media created a "copycat phase" where churches could suddenly see what megachurches were doing Churches adopted same equipment, same songs, same production values What was unique became ubiquitous - "we all became copies of each other" Gen Z is "the most marketed to generation in human history" and numb to production Quote: "Gen Z is the most marketed to generation in human history. And we're all kind of numb to the production. I don't think people are looking for hype. They're looking for hope." What People Actually Want Something real and tangible An experience of God, not just information about God Presence, not just presentation Transformation over information The Internet's Limitation Really good at delivering information (especially with AI) Cannot facilitate an encounter "There's something that happens in the room that doesn't happen online" 2. What "Encounter Over Entertainment" Looks Like The Tonal Shift Worship leaders being more sensitive to what's happening in the room, not just rehearsed transitions Preachers leaving space, not just hitting time marks Paying attention to what God might be doing (people crying, leaning in, visible reactions) Creating space to breathe Silence and Space "When I started in ministry, my goal was to get rid of as much silence in church as I could" Now: "Where else are you going to get silence? You don't get it unless you're in church" Don't have to fill every moment with words Can be silent or "noodle" on instruments while creating space Quote: "People's lives are so noisy and so crowded. I mean, we don't even sleep without white noise machines or anything like that. So where else are you going to get silence?" Evoke vs. Manipulate Can't plan a revival - it happens or it doesn't Job is to "set the table" and make space for the Holy Spirit Example: Great movies evoke genuine tears by accessing real emotions Cheap manipulation feels different Quote: "It's not our job as Christians to manipulate. It's our job possibly to evoke, to say, 'I'm going to set the table. I can't control the Holy Spirit.'" 3. The Liturgy Issue Modern Church is "Liturgically Malnourished" Liturgy = order of service (not an outdated term) Modern church handles joy and praise well Missing: contemplation, confession, lamentation, reflection Lost practices: prayers of confession, prayers of the people Carey's Confession Presbyterian background included prayers of approach and confession As church became attractional, prayer became "just an opportunity to clear the set for the sermon" Regrets thin prayers: "God, it's so good to be here today. We thank you so much. Amen." Quote: "It's like confess your sins to one another and you will be healed. We don't do that anymore. What if we did that?" Not Either/Or, But Both/And Keep good lighting, sound, production, and musicians who can play Add breathing room, texture, color, tone, mood Use liturgical calendar and historic practices adapted to modern context Don't approach Sunday as "slots to fill" Creative Freedom 52 Sundays = 52 blank canvases Already do this well at Easter and Christmas Can be more creative without confusing people Example: Good Friday Service Ended in darkness with no announcement Faded to black and stayed there People sat in uncomfortable silence, then slowly left "I wanted them to feel that discomfort... if you can even get a small sampling of that" Easter Sunday picked up in darkness, then sunrise/resurrection 4. Live Streaming Strategy Who Should Live Stream? Not every church needs to live stream everything Need good musicians to sound great online (around 400-500 attendance to have talent base) Need separate mix for online vs. in-house Poor production = "school play" - only interesting to those directly involved Quote: "A lot of churches, and these are well-meaning, beautiful Christian people. If you don't have the talent in production or in worship, you sound like a school play." Alternatives Stream just the message On-demand after, mixed in post-production Audio only if video isn't good Consider what strangers stumbling on feed would think The Discovery Argument Pre-COVID minority of churches streamed Now "everybody you want to reach is online" "All of non-Christian America, all the nuns, all the duns, all the atheists, all the agnostics, they're on the internet" Can't remember last time truly unchurched person hadn't watched online for weeks/months before visiting The New Foyer Online is now the foyer, not the physical lobby People investigate online before visiting By the time they show up, they're ready to go "further, faster" "They've already done their investigating. They've already asked ChatGPT all the questions" 5. Practical Service Design Handling Growth Pressure Multiple services create pressure to program everything tightly Solution: Trim 5 minutes from sermon Do 60-minute service with breathing room between Create more lobby/connection space Leverage outdoor space (if climate allows) Worship Set Strategy Don't need extended mix of everything Maybe two songs and a tag instead of three full songs "Sit in the tag for a while" Find the high-impact moments (example: bridge of "How Great Is Our God") Get to what matters, like talent shows do 90-second versions Quote: "You don't have to do the extended mix of everything, the seven minute version, do the tag. That would be great. Space is something that you can do in three minutes if you know how to do it well." Service Flow Examples Don't make people stand and greet (where else does that happen?) Have emotionally intelligent people on doors, not just available people Greet people the way THEY want to be greeted Consider kids moments, announcements, communion as natural transitions Call to commitment/involvement comes sooner now than 10 years ago 6. Online Presence Best Practices Website Design Design for new people first Show service times and location prominently (mobile friendly) Staff page is #3 most viewed - people want to see "are there people like me?" Use accurate photos (don't show 27-year-olds if congregation is 70+) Show actual diversity if you have it Quote (Seth Godin): "Culture is people like us do things like this. So what people are looking for, are there people like us?" Content Strategy Lead with best sermons, not just latest Most popular videos should be easy to find People don't care if it's from 2 years ago (still watching The Office) Have robust FAQ section for unchurched questions Position yourself for lost people, not just members 7. The Current Moment The Harvest is Ripe People are seeking more than maybe in past decade or two Culture is saturated with production - not the competitive edge anymore Mental health crisis caused by social media People desperate for something real What to Do Pray for it (spiritual activity) Make newcomer journey easy Take them somewhere when they show up Go deeper faster - they're ready Quote: "People come to church looking to find God, but sometimes all they find is us. They found a really cool song, they found a really great message, but they didn't actually find God in the midst of it." Give Them Meat Reference to Tara-Lee Cobble and The Bible Recap Provide historical context (helps Christians AND non-Christians) Don't be afraid to go deep on sin, gospel, redemption Write/speak in accessible "street Greek" like the New Testament Example Opening: "Hey, we're going back 3000 years. And there was a guy named David who was King of Israel. He was trying to keep the kingdom united because there was a north and a south. You can relate to that. These are divided times..." Quote (Tim Keller): "It's worse than you can possibly imagine and better than you can possibly dream." 8. Leadership Advice For Young Church Staff (25-40) Navigating Frustration with Leadership Write down actual issues you're facing (budget, staffing, expertise) Present respectfully, thoughtfully, submissively Good leaders will either provide resources or adjust priorities Identifying Toxic Culture Unrealistic expectations Unsympathetic to staff needs Expects 60-hour weeks with no life Toxic leader will get mad/defensive when approached Options in Toxic Environment Respectfully approach and share difficulties Accept the glass ceiling and stay Build healthy team within unhealthy body (temporary solution) Leave - "unhealthy bodies drive out healthy cells" Interview Questions for New Positions Ask to talk to current staff (not the pastor) Ask to talk to FORMER staff Find out who left and why Read Google reviews Have meals/experiences together (reveals character under pressure) Quote: "Ask around, ask if you have permission. Don't ask the pastor. Don't ask the pastor. Are you healthy? The toxic people, 'I'm so healthy.'" 9. Team Building & Growth Hiring Philosophy Only hire A players C players: you know immediately (late, unmotivated, incomplete work) - should be gone B players: good but not great - "it's too bad but we'll survive" A players: if they quit you'd need 3 people to replace them Quote (Netflix): "Adequate performance gets you a generous severance package." A Player Test If they knocked on the door saying "this is my last day," how do you react? C player: "Thank goodness, now I don't have to fire them" B player: "Too bad but we'll survive" A player: "Grabbing the waste basket and throwing up" Growth Wisdom Don't settle on staff because you're panicking Will eventually become bloated with no profit Profit = "permission to do this again tomorrow" (Seth Godin) Most businesses fail not from lack of vision but lack of cash Use tools like Working Genius to find right fit Don't just find A players - find A players with gifts your team needs Cultural Values Write them down and review regularly Ritz-Carlton: 26 values, reviewed 2-3 daily in team meetings Use to evaluate: "Where are we winning/losing with our values?" Catch team members exemplifying values Values help instill culture as org chart grows 10. Upcoming Projects Carey's New Book Topic: AI and the Future Church Thesis: "As the world becomes more artificial, we need to become more human as Christians" Church's future direction is human connection Expected publication: 2026 Latest Book "At Your Best" - about time, energy, and priorities Notable Statistics & Data Points 72% of teenagers have tried AI chatbots 31% prefer AI companionship to human companions Pre-COVID: minority of churches streamed services Can't recall single unchurched person who didn't watch online for weeks/months before visiting Around 400-500 attendance: churches start having talent base for good production 80-95% of church growth in America is conversion growth (not transfer) Top 3 website pages: Homepage, Messages, Staff/About Production Quality Basics Good Enough to Stream Great singing (doesn't need to be phenomenal) Decent lights Pretty good mix Can work with church of 150-200 with good coaching Everything else can be helped with technology Bare Minimum Great guitarist + great vocalist = "off to the races" Don't feel pressure to have full mediocre band Add musicians as you find/afford great ones Practical Takeaways Create space in services - silence, breathing room, sensitivity to the room Recover lost liturgical practices - confession, lamentation, contemplation Go deeper faster - people are ready for meat, not just milk Design for online discovery - unchurched people are investigating you Lead with best content - not just latest content Only hire A players - don't panic hire when growing Build real human connection - counter to increasingly artificial world Make newcomer journey easy - they're ready to engage quickly Be creative with 52 Sundays - not just slots to fill Focus on encounter over entertainment - production supports experience, doesn't replace it Questions for Further Reflection How can we create more space for confession in our services? What would it look like to "evoke" rather than "manipulate" in worship? Are we positioning our online presence for unchurched discovery? Is our production supporting encounter or replacing it? What emotions are people carrying into our services, and how do we acknowledge that? Are we moving too fast for the Holy Spirit to work? Memorable Quotes "I don't think people are looking for hype. They're looking for hope." "People aren't looking for more information. They're looking for presence, not just presentation." "The internet is really good at information, especially with AI. You want to know anything, you can find out anything, but the internet can't really facilitate an encounter." "It's not our job as Christians to manipulate. It's our job possibly to evoke." "Where else are you going to get silence? You don't get it unless you're in church." "If you don't have the talent in production or in worship, you sound like a school play." "Everybody you want to reach is online." "Your foyer has moved online." "People come to church looking to find God, but sometimes all they find is us." "As the world becomes more artificial, we need to become more human as Christians." "Adequate performance gets you a generous severance package." "Profit is permission to do this again tomorrow."

Adriel Sanchez explains the surprising history behind the modern movement of churches using grape juice instead of wine for communion, and how it was spearheaded by Dr. Thomas Bramwell Welch of Welch's Grape Juice in the 1900s. PARTNER WITH US - https://solamedia.org/partner/?sc=AS2502V When you become a partner today, you'll receive two remarkable books as our thanks: Rediscovering the Holy Spirit by Dr. Michael Horton and Praying with Jesus by Pastor Adriel Sanchez. We believe these books can guide you into a clearer understanding of the Spirit's work and a richer prayer life. FOLLOW US YouTube | Instagram | X/Twitter | Facebook | Newsletter WHO WE ARE Sola is home to White Horse Inn, Core Christianity, Modern Reformation, and Theo Global. Our mission is to serve today's global church by producing resources for reformation grounded in the historic Christian faith. Our vision is to see reformation in hearts, homes, and churches around the world. Learn more: https://solamedia.org/

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