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Oona Hathaway, professor of international law at Yale University, addresses President Trump's plans to expand US territory into Greenland, the Panama Canal, and Canada. She discusses international law, the causes of the decline in interstate war, the difference between norms and laws, the problem of enforcement, tensions between norms against conquest and the need for a negotiated peace in the Russia-Ukraine war, among other topics. Show NotesOona A. Hathaway, Scott J. Shapiro, The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World, Simon & Schuster, 2017. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
The U.S.'s frequent use of force abroad erodes the international order's most fundamental principles of sovereignty and non-intervention. Yale Law School professor Oona Hathaway discusses the erosion of domestic constraints on presidential war powers and the increasing official resort to untenable self-defense doctrines to justify its military actions under international law. She also explains why chipping away at the prohibition on the use of force undermines international order, among other topics.Show NotesOona Hathaway bioOona A. Hathaway, “How the Expansion of ‘Self-Defense' Has Undermined Constraints on the Use of Force,” Just Security, September 18, 2023.Oona A. Hathaway and Scott J. Shapiro, The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World (New York: Simon & Schuster, 2017).Oona A. Hathaway et al., “Yemen: Is the U.S. Breaking the Law?” Harvard National Security Journal 10 (2019).Oona Hathaway, “National Security Lawyering in the Post-War Era: Can Law Constrain Power?” UCLA Law Review 68, rev. 2 (2021). Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Jen's guest today is Professor Scott J. Shapiro, author of the new book FANCY BEAR GOES PHISHING. That's phishing with a PH. But Fancy with an F, as in Fancy Bear, the Russian hack. Subtitled THE DARK HISTORY OF THE INFORMATION AGE, IN FIVE EXTRAORDINARY HACKS. With this book, Scott hopes “that these true-crime stories – some accidental, some not – will engage readers who have little or not prior interest in technology and equip them to read beyond the headlines.” You know Scott from his famous shitposting on Twitter, which he kindly also offers up on Threads. Or, if you're lucky, you've taken a course from him at Yale Law school where he eaks out a meagre existence as the Charles F. Southmayd Professor of Law and Professor of Philosophy. His areas of interest include jurisprudence, international law, constitutional law, criminal law and cybersecurity. He is also Scott the founding director of the Yale CyberSecurity Lab. Here's some praise for FANCY BEAR GOES PHISHING from author Garrett Graff, “Accessible for regular readers, yet still fun for experts, this delightful book expertly traces the challenge of securing our digital lives and how the optimism of the internet's early pioneers has resulted in an online world today threatened by spies, criminals, and over-eager teen hackers.” In 2017 Scott also co-authored THE INTERNATIONALISTS with Professor Oona Hathaway. And his first book, published in 2011 was called LEGALITY: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World. Contact Booked Up: You can email Jen & the Booked Up team at: BOOKEDUP@POLITICON.COM or by writing to: BOOKED UP P.O. BOX 147 NORTHAMPTON, MA 01061 Get More from Scott J. Shapiro Twitter | Website| Author of FANCY BEAR GOES PHISHING Get More from Jen Taub: taubjen on Threads| Money & Gossip Substack | Author of BIG DIRTY MONEY
The horrors of modern war shocked sensibilities enough that by the 1920s there were active efforts to outlaw war entirely. The idea's proponents would face obstacles from disinterested governments and even conflicts among each other. But by decade's end the world had come together in agreement with their principals. Bibliography for this episode: Hathaway, Oona A. and Scott J. Shapiro The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World Simon and Schuster 2017 Questions? Comments? Email me at peaceintheirtime@gmail.com
In this episode, Scott J. Shapiro, Charles F. Southmayd Professor of Law and Professor of Philosophy at Yale Law School, discusses his book The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World (Simon & Schuster 2018) and his essay "Putin Can't Destroy the International Order by Himself," both of which he co-authored with Oona A. Hathaway, Gerard C. and Bernice Latrobe Smith Professor of International Law. Shapiro is on Twitter at @scottjshapiro.This episode was hosted by Paula, a 2L at Michigan Law School. She is on Twitter at @polapetit. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
“Russia's utterly unprovoked, unjustifiable, immoral invasion of Ukraine would seem to mark the end of an era,” writes Fareed Zakaria, “one that began with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989.”Many of us, myself included, grew up in that era. We came of age in a unipolar world, dominated by a single country whose military, economic, even cultural, hegemony remained largely uncontested. That world was by no means free of violence. But the great power conflict that had defined the lived experiences of previous generations seemed like an ancient relic.Recently, it's the post-Cold War era of the last 30 years that has begun to feel outdated. China has become an economic and military powerhouse — its economy is now larger than the third, fourth, fifth and sixth biggest world economies combined. Russia has become geopolitically assertive, annexing Crimea in 2014, undermining U.S. elections , and now invading Ukraine.Over the past few weeks, questions that once came off as alarmist have become urgent: Are we witnessing the return of great power conflict? And if so, what does that mean for America — and the rest of the world?Fareed Zakaria is the host of CNN's “Fareed Zakaria GPS,” a columnist for The Washington Post and one of the most brilliant analysts of this emerging era. His 2003 book “The Future of Freedom: Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad” and his 2008 book “The Post American World” were well ahead of their times. And his more recent work on Russia's aggression, China's rise and the crucial distinctions between those nations is crucial for understanding this moment.We discuss the decline of the so-called “Pax-Americana,” why Zakaria believes Russia poses a much more existential threat to the liberal world order than China, what the West would be doing if it wanted to seriously punish Russia for its actions, whether Putin's attempt to break the liberal world order has actually reinvigorated it, why Zakaria thinks it's a mistake to think of the world as divided into “democratic” and “neo-authoritarian” blocs, how America's expansionism and hypocrisy undermines its reputation abroad, whether Donald Trump was ultimately right about the need for greater European defense spending, what a diplomatic solution to the current Russia-Ukraine war could look like, how America's thinking about the world needs to radically change in a global great power competition and more. Disclaimer: this episode contains explicit language. Mentioned:“The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World” by Oona A. Hathaway and Scott J. ShapiroFareed Zakaria GPS episode, “Fareed's take: Putin's War on Liberal Democracy.” (CNN)“The Return to Great-Power Rivalry Was Inevitable” by Thomas Wright (The Atlantic)“Why Ukrainians Believe They Can Win” by Michelle Goldberg in The New York Times.Book recommendations:“Man, the State, and War: A Theoretical Analysis” by Kenneth N. Waltz“A World Safe for Democracy” by G. John Ikenberry“Memoirs 1925-1950” by George F. KennanThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.“The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld; audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Kristina Samulewski.
This week we have an emergency podcast episode on the war in Ukraine. We're joined by our two colleagues and leading international law scholars – Oona Hathaway, the Gerard C. and Bernice Latrobe Smith Professor of International Law at Yale Law School, and Scott Shapiro, the Chalres F. Southmayd Professor of Law and Professor of Philosophy at Yale Law School. In this conversation, which took place Sunday, February 27 even as a fluid situation evolved, we focus on the legal theory implications of the war. We get into Oona and Scott's book The Internationalists and whether Putin's invasion constitutes a challenge to the global legal order described in their book. In addition, even if in the global order a norm exists against aggression and conquest, do some countries seem to be exempt from operating under these norms? We next compare the American domestic criminal law system to the international legal system and ask why internationally we tolerate a system where one actor can veto attempts to make it operate within the system. A debate emerges if Russia is actually avoiding the norms of the legal system right now given the costs it is facing through the global response to their invasion. In the conversation, we discuss the efficacy of “outcasting” and whether current American and European sanctions can be effective. After, we touch on Putin's case for war and how his justification compares to other historic “war manifestos.” There's a lot to discuss here and we're lucky to have two of the experts in the field here to break it down. Referenced Readings The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World, Oona A. Hathaway and Scott J. Shapiro “Outcasting: Enforcement in Domestic and International Law,” Oona A. Hathaway & Scott J. Shapiro. “Putin Can't Destroy the International Order by Himself,” Oona A. Hathaway & Scott J. Shapiro “War Manifestos,” Oona A. Hathaway, Scott J. Shapiro, et al. “Putin's Case for War, Annotated,” Max Fisher. “The Economic Weapon: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War,” Nicholas Mulder. The Concept of the Political, Carl Schmitt. “Forms of Modern Imperialism in International Law,” Carl Schmitt.
Should the United States classify as much information as it does? Yale Law School professor Oona A. Hathaway explains how the U.S. government overclassifies information, why incentives generate more secrecy, the threat to democracy this system poses, and what to do about it.Oona Hathaway bioOona A. Hathaway and Scott J. Shapiro, Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World (New York: Simon & Schuster, 2018). Oona A. Hathaway, “Keeping the Wrong Secrets: How Washington Misses the Real Security Threat,” Foreign Affairs 101, no. 1 (January/February 2022).Oona A. Hathaway, “Secrecy's End,” Minnesota Law Review 106 (2021): pp. 691-800. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
In August 1928, signatories from France, the United States and Germany signed a treaty outlawing war. This so-called Kellogg-Briand Pact was soon signed by almost every state. Yet, in the century since, countless wars have been started ... and not all of them finished. To find out whether the pact has had any impact on international relations since its inception, James speaks to Professor Oona Hathaway from Yale University. Oona and her colleague Scott Shapiro are the authors of ‘The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World'. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
Scott J. Shapiro, Charles F. Southmayd Professor of Law and Professor of Philosophy at Yale Law School, joins us to talk about well, everything, including planning theory of law, outcasting and more. Click here for Scott Shapiro's podcast 'Jurisprudence'. Publications referred to in the episode: Oona A. Hathaway and Scott J. Shapiro, The Internationalists: How A Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World (New York: Simon and Schuster, 2017). Oona Hathaway and Scott J Shapiro, ‘Outcasting: Enforcement in Domestic and International Law', Yale Law Journal 121 (2011): 252–349. Scott J. Shapiro, Legality (Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 2011). Michael Bratman, Intention, Plans, and Practical Reason (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1987).
I ask the philosopher Scott Shapiro five questions about himself. Scott Shapiro is the Charles F. Southmayd Professor of Law and Professor of Philosophy at Yale Law School. His areas of interest include jurisprudence, international law, constitutional law, criminal law and cybersecurity; and he is the author of "Legality" (2011) and, with Oona Hathaway, of "The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World" (2017).
Presidents have always skirted the rules when it comes to gaining authorization from Congress to use military force. President Donald Trump’s direction to kill Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani takes it to a whole new level and exposes just how weak the War Powers Act has become. Guest: Oona Hathaway, Author of The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Podcast production by Mary Wilson, Jayson De Leon, Danielle Hewitt, and Mara Silvers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Presidents have always skirted the rules when it comes to gaining authorization from Congress to use military force. President Trump’s direction to kill General Qasam Soleimani takes it to a whole new level and exposes just how weak The War Powers Act has become. Guest: Oona Hathaway, Author of The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World. Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now. Podcast production by Mary Wilson, Jayson De Leon, Danielle Hewitt, and Mara Silvers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Oona A. Hathaway and Scott J. Shapiro, authors of the 2018 Lionel Gelber Prize shortlisted book “The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World”, speak with Robert Steiner, Director, Fellowships in Global Journalism at the Munk School of Global Affairs.
Ryan Evans had the pleasure to sit down with Oona Hathaway and Scott Shapiro, authors of the new book The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World. Remember that treaty you learned about in school that outlawed war after World War I - the Kellogg-Briand Pact? That's right, the one you laughed at. Well Oona and Scott -- both of Yale Law School -- make a pretty strong argument that it actually worked far better than we all thought. And, in doing so, they make a good case that international relations scholars should take the power of the law more seriously.
The Kellogg-Briand Pact is often remembered as a failure; signed in 1928 to outlaw war, it was followed in just over a decade by one of the deadliest conflicts in history. But Oona Hathaway and Scott Shapiro see the Pact differently. In their new book, "The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World," they argue that though it did not successfully end all war, the Pact changed the way states resolve disputes, reduced the likelihood of conquest, and set of a chain of events that led to the modern world order. On September 11, they sat down with Jack Goldsmith at the Hoover Book Soiree to discuss their book and its implications.
The Hoover Institution hosted "The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World" on Monday, September 11, 2017 from 5:00pm - 7:00pm EST. Jack Goldsmith, working group co-chair, interviewed authors Oona Hathaway and Scott Shapiro, examining the role that war has played in international relations from the sixteenth century to the present -- a role profoundly transformed by the "Internationalists," who created the rules and institutions that gave us seven decades of unprecedented peace between states. Hathaway and Shapiro argue that as the world stands on the brink of rejecting the global legal order the Internationalists built, this is a moment to understand what is at risk. (Playing time: 46:08)
Recorded on September 11, 2017 Jack Goldsmith, working group co-chair, interviewed authors Oona Hathaway and Scott Shapiro, examining the role that war has played in international relations from the sixteenth century to the present -- a role profoundly transformed by the "Internationalists," who created the rules and institutions that gave us seven decades of unprecedented peace between states. Hathaway and Shapiro argue that as the world stands on the brink of rejecting the global legal order the Internationalists built, this is a moment to understand what is at risk.
Scott Shapiro and Oona Hathaway have just published The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World. Scott J. Shapiro is the Charles F. Southmayd Professor of Law and Professor of Philosophy at Yale Law School, where he is the Director of the Center for Law and Philosophy. He is also the Visiting Quain Professor of Jurisprudence at University College, London. He earned his BA and PhD degrees in philosophy from Columbia University and a JD from Yale Law School, where he was senior editor of The Yale Law Journal. He is the author of Legality and editor of The Oxford Handbook of Jurisprudence and the Philosophy of Law. He lives in New Haven, Connecticut. Oona A. Hathaway is the Gerard C. and Bernice Latrobe Smith Professor of International Law at Yale Law School and the Director of the Center for Global Legal Challenges. She has published essays and opinion pieces in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The Guardian, and Foreign Policy. She served as the Special Counsel to the General Counsel at the U.S. Department of Defense in 2014-2015, for which she was awarded the Office of the Secretary of Defense Award for Excellence. She is a member of the Advisory Committee on International Law for the Legal Adviser of the US Department of State and an active member of the US Supreme Court bar. She earned her BA from Harvard College and a JD from Yale Law School, where she was Editor-in-Chief of The Yale Law Journal. She lives in New Haven, Connecticut. David Swanson's review of The Internationalists is here: http://davidswanson.org/how-outlawing-war-changed-the-world-in-1928