Podcasts about Berlin Wall

Chris Gueffroy, was the last person to be shot dead at the Berlin Wall and a new short film called “Whispers of Freedom” portrays his story. I speak with the film's director Brandon Ashplant who shares the challenges of accurately portraying real individuals with deep personal histories. Actors Cameron Ashplant (Chris) and Wendy Makkena (Karin) reflect on research they undertook to authentically represent life in East Germany. The discussion also touches on the emotional impact of visiting key locations including Chris's grave and the site of his death, and the delicate process of obtaining consent from his family to tell this story. Episode extras https://coldwarconversations.com/episode399/ Where can I see the film? There's been various updates since we recorded. The trailer has been released and is available on the Golden Goat Films Facebook and Instagram pages (@goldengoatfilms). The World Premier is at the Sunderland Shorts Film Festival at 18:00 on Friday 16th May at the Omniplex, Sunderland. Cast and crew in attendance. So if you are in the area, do join them. The  Canadian premiere is in September at Toronto International Nollywood Film Festival (TINFF) - which makes the film Canadian Screen Award Qualifying, opening up its route to the Academy Awards (if we're lucky enough!) The Guernsey premier is on September 12th and the Berlin premiere is on October 2nd at the DDR Museum. The film will thereafter live at the museum, available for international tourists to watch on an ongoing basis. The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. You'll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you'll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/ If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link. Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/ Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/ Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bartees Strange makes music that doesn't sit still. One moment it's soaring indie rock, the next it's touched by soul, punk energy, or the weight of hip-hop—yet it all holds together in a way that feels completely his own. We sat down in a quiet Berlin hotel room to talk about the creative process behind his new album Horror, produced by Jack Antonoff and released on the iconic 4AD label.Bartees doesn't approach songwriting as a straight path. It's more like piecing together different fragments until something unexpected clicks. “I might write five or six sections and not know they're in the same song until I start plugging them into each other,” he said. That instinctive method pulls influence from across the board—Fleetwood Mac, Parliament, Burial, Neil Young—and filters it through a sound that's urgent, intimate, and ever-shifting.What stood out most in our conversation was his view on genre itself. For Bartees, it's not just about music—it's about identity, and how people are often encouraged to box themselves in. “Music is representative of people,” he told me. “And people separate themselves from each other because of all these things that don't make sense. Through music, I can show people that all those things you thought were unique to you are also unique to them.” His work holds a quiet defiance, a kind of gentle political energy that moves through emotion rather than statement.Before committing to music full-time, Bartees worked as deputy press secretary at the FCC under Obama. That experience brings a clear-eyed perspective to his writing—but it was never about strategy. “I tried not to do it. I got a job, I worked… but after a while, I was like I'd rather just not survive than not do what I want to do.” That sense of risk and necessity lives in every note.If you're enjoying Lost and Sound, please do subscribe and leave a rating or review on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you listen. It really helps to spread the word and support Lost and Sound.Bartees Strange on Instagram Listen/Buy Horror by Bartees Strange hereFollow me on Instagram at PaulhanfordLost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-TechnicaMy BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.My book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

[EP 25-149] Every few weeks, Leftists get electrocuted by the same fence—and like moths to a bug zapper, they just can't stay away.Case in point: the BBC's weekend gem of a headline, “Trump era leaves US tourists in Paris ashamed.” Really? Ashamed? For what—being from the country with the lowest unemployment, the strongest economy, and the most effective global negotiator since Reagan took down the Berlin Wall with a wink and a speech? Or are they ashamed because while Iran was begging to sit at the table with Trump over nukes and their collapsing economy, the American media still played make-believe that the world was "abandoning" us? If anyone should be ashamed, it's the reporters pushing this nonsense.Trump didn't just say he'd fix America—he did it. He pulled the U.S. out of global gaslighting sessions, looked other nations in the eye, and said, “No more free lunch. We brought the casserole last ten times.” And for that, the media claims Americans are embarrassed? That's not journalism—it's group therapy for globalist crybabies.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-kevin-jackson-show--2896352/support.

David Longstreth on Dirty Projectors, Orchestral Experimentation, and the Radical Psychedelia of FatherhoodDavid Longstreth stands at a fascinating creative crossroads. For twenty years, he's been the driving force behind Dirty Projectors, crafting music that defies easy categorization while earning collaborations with icons like Björk, Rihanna, and Paul McCartney. Now, with his ambitious new orchestral song cycle "Song of the Earth," Longstreth explores our shifting relationship with nature while processing what he calls "the radical psychedelia of fatherhood."Speaking from his California home studio (formerly a kitchen, before that a garage that "bloomed with mold"), Longstreth reveals how this project emerged from conversations with his longtime friend Andre de Ritter, conductor of the Berlin-based ensemble Stargaze. Drawing inspiration from Gustav Mahler's "Das Lied von der Erde," Longstreth initially set out to write nature poems, only to discover his feelings about the natural world had "gotten weird" – reflecting our collective anxiety about climate change.The beauty of Longstreth's approach lies in his embrace of uncertainty. Throughout our conversation, he repeatedly describes putting himself in musical situations "beyond what I'm capable of," allowing the learning curve itself to become part of the creative process. This has been his method since recreating Black Flag's "Damaged" album from memory for Dirty Projectors‘ 2007 "Rise Above" (deliberately avoiding revisiting the original) through to this orchestral collaboration that marries environmental themes with deeply personal transformation.Perhaps most captivating is Longstreth's description of how parenthood has fundamentally altered his perception. Watching his three-year-old daughter experience the world for the first time has made him question everything he knows, creating a profound sense of renewal that directly influences the emotional landscape of "Song of the Earth." Twenty years into his career, Longstreth has found a way to make music that feels simultaneously ambitious and intimate, political and personal – a rare achievement worth celebrating.If you're enjoying Lost and Sound, please do subscribe and leave a rating or review on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you listen. It really helps to spread the word and support Lost and Sound.Dirty Projectors on Instagram Dirty Projectors Official StoreFollow me on Instagram at PaulhanfordLost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-TechnicaMy BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.My book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

Jay North, ‘Dennis the Menace' Star, Dies at 73 He played the young mischief maker on the CBS comedy for four seasons and was in ‘Maya,' a movie and TV show. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/jay-north-dead-dennis-the-menace-1236182969/ WITHDRAWING THE UNITED STATES FROM AND ENDING FUNDING TO CERTAIN UNITED NATIONS ORGANIZATIONS https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/withdrawing-the-united-states-from-and-ending-funding-to-certain-united-nations-organizations-and-reviewing-united-states-support-to-all-international-organizations/ Trump's tariffs are the end of globalisation Europe can't fight a trade war When regimes end, they end in phases. Communism died over a period of 10 years, starting with the strike at the Gdansk shipyard in 1980. The fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 was the great symbolic episode, and the 1991... View Article

1989 : La chute du mur de Berlin qui était le symbole de la Guerre froide, marque le début d'une cascade d'événements qui redessine la carte du monde et transforme radicalement notre façon de vivre.En quelques mois seulement, des régimes qu'on pensait inébranlables s'effondrent comme des châteaux de cartes. L'URSS, cette superpuissance qui faisait trembler l'Occident, disparaît. Et soudain, le monde entre dans une nouvelle ère.Ce basculement est si profond que l'historien Francis Fukuyama va même jusqu'à proclamer "la fin de l'Histoire", pensant que la démocratie libérale et le capitalisme ont définitivement triomphé.Mais est-ce vraiment si simple ? Le monde post-1989 est-il celui de la paix et de la prospérité promises ?"#3ème #Terminale***T'as qui en Histoire ? * : le podcast qui te fait aimer l'Histoire ?Pour rafraîchir ses connaissances, réviser le brevet, le bac, ses leçons, apprendre et découvrir des sujets d'Histoire (collège, lycée, université)***✉️ Contact: tasquienhistoire@gmail.com*** Sur les réseaux sociaux ***Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/TasQuiEnHistoireTwitter : @AsHistoire Instagram : @tasquienhistoireTiktok : @tasquienhistoire ***Credit sonoresScorpions - Wind Of Change (Karaoke With Lyrics)@Stingray Karaokehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAPRtwEp82c 09 novembre 1989 : Le Mur de Berlin est détruit par les Allemands | Archive INA@INA Politiquehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_romprNFd70 Rostropóvich plays during fall of Berlin Wall - no comment@euronewshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqIEdv3Q3-M Track: The OneMusic by https://www.fiftysounds.com 11 septembre 2001 : L'attentat du World Trade Center à New York | Archive INA @INA Sociétéhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ70vt3FQb4 Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

United States President John F Kennedy gave a speech in Berlin at the height of the Cold War on 26 June 1963. It galvanised the world in support of West Berliners who had been isolated by the construction of the Berlin Wall. In 2023, Tom Wills spoke to Gisela Morel-Tiemann, who attended the speech as a student. A Whistledown production. Eye-witness accounts brought to life by archive. Witness History is for those fascinated by the past. We take you to the events that have shaped our world through the eyes of the people who were there. For nine minutes every day, we take you back in time and all over the world, to examine wars, coups, scientific discoveries, cultural moments and much more. Recent episodes explore everything from football in Brazil, the history of the ‘Indian Titanic' and the invention of air fryers, to Public Enemy's Fight The Power, subway art and the political crisis in Georgia. We look at the lives of some of the most famous leaders, artists, scientists and personalities in history, including: visionary architect Antoni Gaudi and the design of the Sagrada Familia; Michael Jordan and his bespoke Nike trainers; Princess Diana at the Taj Mahal; and Görel Hanser, manager of legendary Swedish pop band Abba on the influence they've had on the music industry. You can learn all about fascinating and surprising stories, such as the time an Iraqi journalist hurled his shoes at the President of the United States in protest of America's occupation of Iraq; the creation of the Hollywood commercial that changed advertising forever; and the ascent of the first Aboriginal MP.(Photo: John F Kennedy making his speech in Berlin. Credit: Lehnartz/ullstein bild via Getty Images)

Seamus Rawles Malliagh, better known as Iglooghost, is an artist who doesn't just make electronic music—he builds entire worlds. His sound is hyper-detailed, bursting with surreal textures, and deeply tied to the mythologies he creates around it.In this episode, we dive into how growing up in rural Dorset shaped his imagination, from childhood experiments with ley lines to the eerie, folklore-like atmosphere of empty landscapes. We also explore the making of his most recent album, Tidal Memory Exo, crafted during a five-year stint living near Thanet's brutalist seafront. Immersed in what he calls “aesthetic ugliness”—concrete towers, decay, a nearby sewage plant—he channeled these surroundings into an intricate fictional narrative, where a storm isolates Thanet from the mainland, birthing underground music subcultures.Iglooghost shares how discomfort and constraint fuel his creativity and how mythology plays a key role in his artistic process. Whether you're deep into his sonic universe or discovering him for the first time, we get into one about how environment, storytelling, and electronic music collide.If you're enjoying Lost and Sound, please do subscribe and leave a rating or review on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you listen. It really helps to spread the word and support Lost and Sound.Iglooghost on InstagramIglooghost on BandcampFollow me on Instagram at PaulhanfordLost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-TechnicaMy BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.My book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

Send me a Text Message!MARCH 2025Hey everyone—checking in from Albania! This month's been a bit of a whirlwind. I finally moved into my new place in Porto (which felt amazing), but then had to leave Portugal until my visa is approved. Cue the Great Travel Shuffle: Porto > Madrid > Tirana > Frankfurt > US > Frankfurt > Porto. So. Many. Flights.But you know what? Tirana—and especially the Blloku neighborhood—continues to surprise me. It's my third time here and there's always more history to discover. From strong espressos and people-watching to powerful pieces of history tucked around every corner, it's been a unique little chapter.In this episode, I'm talking about the highs, the hectic moments, the history, and what it's like living out of a suitcase while craving a little stillness. If you've ever felt that mix of wanderlust and wanting to just hang your clothes up for once—you'll get it.Website  I  Instagram  I  Twitter  I  LinkedIn  I  YouTubeEmail: actorbobtapper@gmail.comIn this episode:Moving into my Porto Apartment (for a quick minute)Pack, Unpack, Repack and back to TiranaEnver Hoxha's Home: 40 years of communist rulePostbllok MemorialLooking forward to my return to PortoAirBnbBook your stay!Former Residence of Enver HoxhaRight in the heart of Tirana is a quiet villa that once belonged to Enver Hoxha, Albania's longtime communist leader. For decades, the entire area around it—now known as Blloku—was completely off-limits, guarded by police and secret agents. It was basically a wall-less fortress for the regime's elite, hidden in plain sight. Today, it's one of the city's liveliest neighborhoods, but that history still lingers.Postbllok MemorialOne of the most powerful spots in Tirana is the Postbllok Memorial—a small but impactful installation created by former political prisoner Fatos Lubonja and artist Ardian Isufi. It features concrete beams from Spaç Prison, part of a military bunker, and a piece of the Berlin Wall gifted by the city of Berlin. Each element tells a story of Albania's past under dictatorship and its long road to freedom. Support the show

Fritz Häber, The Complete Diary: 16 Months in an American POW Camp by Bernd Häber Amazon.com Worldstrings.com 16monthsaspow.com Examining history through family archives frequently complicates our understanding of the past. This complexity is heightened when descendants encounter diverse forms of testimonial evidence from a bygone era—whether it be a photograph, an object, postcards, official documents, or a diary—and undertake the challenging endeavor of deciphering the meaning of these personal remnants within the broader context of historical events. This diary stands apart from the typical World War II narratives found in documentaries, textbooks, and retellings, often providing only the highlights and a broad overview. For readers seeking a genuinely fresh and intimate perspective on the physical war and psychological war that unfolds beneath the surface, this real-life account offers an insightful and comprehensive experience. This is the story of Fritz Häber, a young German father who grappled with the dual responsibilities to his family and country. His reflections provide personal insights that extend beyond him to encompass broader global perspectives. Forced to serve in a Nazi anti-aircraft unit near Munich during WW2, he later endured 16 months imprisoned in an American POW camp. Fritz Häber begins his diary with this dedication: “I dedicate these pages to my wife and my children of whom I hope are still alive and whom to find well when I return from captivity… May these lines serve my wife in the future as a compensation for the long time during which she knew nothing about my well-being, and for the children to serve as an example of how human destinies can get easily mixed up.” Stories such as his prompt an exploration of our family histories and their untold narratives. They illuminate themes of resilience and survival, morality and choice. Even when these tales harbor discomfort or controversy, they possess the power to enlighten us and offer valuable guidance for our present actions. His steadfast and unyielding belief in his survival gave him the faith that he would be reunited with his family one day. Having endured physical and emotional challenges, his story is a timeless, powerful source of inspiration 75 years later and will resonate with future generations. From the author: n this book, which is both a diary and a memoir, you will meet my grandfather, Fritz Häber. As a child, he was just my grandpa, a jovial, vigorous, warmhearted man, whom I would visit during the occasional holiday vacation. It was only later when contentious, life altering, family events were revealed to me that I realized Fritz had served in Hitler's Wehrmacht during WWII, one of the most tumultuous and violent time periods of world history. I had so many questions. Although his part in this global drama can be considered minor, he extensively documented his experiences and shared his astute reflections on everything from human psychology to political philosophy. Like many history buffs, I have spent countless hours reading about high level diplomacy and watching documentaries that detail the technical and military aspects of war, but it was not until reading Fritz's diary that I could fully imagine both the momentous decisions he made and the drudgery of being a reluctant soldier. Fritz, an antifascist, not only warns “human destinies can get easily mixed up” during war, but also reminds us to pay attention to forces that might interfere with our lives in unexpected ways. I am excited to now share his story with you. About the author Bernd, grandson of Fritz, was born in East Berlin - after the Berlin Wall was erected. He grew up in the German Democratic Republic under a Communist ruling government. Bernd attended the Technische Universität in Chemnitz in Saxony/Germany and graduated with a Master's Degree in Mechanical Engineering, Manufacturing Process Design and Computer Aided Manufacturing.

Bex Scott welcomes guest Lulu from Lulu J Vintage, a vintage costume jewelry collector and seller, to the show to teach her all about the joys of vintage costume jewelry. Lulu started collecting when she was sixteen years old and worked at the Carol Tanenbaum Vintage Jewelry Collection through high school and university. She learned from amazing mentors about the history of jewelry and developed her own collection before starting to sell on Instagram last year. Bex finds out what jewelry Lulu loves best, her philosophy on collecting, and tips for testing authenticity. Lulu describes herself as a “very passionate collector” and her love of vintage costume jewelry shines through in her conversation with Bex. She describes some of her favorite vintage pieces and why she prefers certain styles over others. Though she says she's not a fashion historian, Lulu teaches Bex quite a lot about the history of costume jewelry and styles through the years. Bex learns about the current brooch resurgence, French designer Léa Stein, how to locate the lost mate of her solo Sherman earring, and how to test for true Bakelite. Lulu stresses that collecting should be about what someone loves, and what they're passionate about, not simply focused on what will sell or what's valuable. Join Bex and Lulu for a deep dive into vintage costume jewelry.Resources discussed in this episode:“Vintage Jewellery: Collecting and Wearing Designer Classics” by Caroline CoxKenneth J Lane vintageAvon rose broochCaroline Tanenbaum Vintage CollectionLéa Stein“Sherman Jewelry History” on VintageJewelryGirl.com“6 Ways to Identify Bakelite” by Pamela Wiggins on TheSpruceCrafts.comJoyce's ClosetBEX VintageMr. Mansfield Vintage—Contact Lulu | Lulu J VintageInstagram: @lulujvintageContact Rebecca Scott | Pyrex With Bex: Website: PyrexWithBex.comInstagram: @pyrexwithbex—TranscriptBex Scott: [00:00:02] Hey everybody, it's Bex Scott and welcome to the Pyrex with Bex podcast where you guessed it, I talk about vintage Pyrex, but also all things vintage housewares. I'll take you on my latest thrifting adventures, talk about reselling, chat with other enthusiasts about their collections, and learn about a bunch of really awesome items from the past. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you love listening to podcasts so you don't miss a beat. Hey everybody, this is Bex Scott and you are listening to the Pyrex with Bex podcast. And today I am very excited to introduce to you Lulu of Lulu J vintage on Instagram. Welcome, Lulu. Lulu: [00:00:43] Thanks so much for having me Bex. Bex Scott: [00:00:44] Thanks for being here. So I found you through Instagram and I instantly fell in love with all of your education on vintage costume jewelry and your amazing reels. And every time you post, I want to buy all of the jewelry that you show. So I wanted to make sure I could get you on the podcast to educate my listeners on all of the amazing jewelry. I love jewelry, I have a massive collection of just random things from over the years. I don't wear a lot of it, but I have this thing where I need to buy it and just keep it in a jewelry box and then look at it. So I'm excited to learn from you today as well. Lulu: [00:01:27] I think that's how all collecting starts. You start with coins or jewelry or just things that you love, and it starts to turn in, even your beautiful books behind you and your collection. Bex Scott: [00:01:40] Yeah, it's funny how you don't realize that you're starting a collection. And then you look at everything around you, and you have about 40 more collections than you thought you did. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into the world of vintage costume jewelry? Lulu: [00:01:59] Absolutely. And so I am a very passionate collector of vintage costume jewelry. I've been collecting since I was 16 years old. I worked at the Carol Tannenbaum Vintage Jewelry Collection throughout high school and university, and that was the place I just fell in love with it. I was immersed in jewelry. I learned so much from amazing mentors and learned a lot about the history, and slowly just started to build my collection over time. I began selling just on Instagram last year as really a creative outlet from my full-time job and a way to get back into this industry and to meet like-minded people. Bex Scott: [00:02:46] That's awesome. What is it about vintage costume jewelry that fascinates you the most? Lulu: [00:02:51] That's a great question. I mean, I think I've always been a jewelry girl. I loved playing dress up as a kid. Go through my nana's jewelry box? Yeah, just, I've always loved fashion. There was a period through, I guess, my teens where I thought I wanted to be a fashion designer or a jewelry designer, and working at Carol's Collection, it was really that place that started my interest in costume jewelry and becoming really fascinated with it. And it was just, it's more accessible than collecting, I'd say clothing because you can keep it in a jewelry box. You don't need to have a big closet. And yeah, that's where it started. Bex Scott: [00:03:31] And you can have multiple jewelry boxes and still hide them away. You can't have multiple closets as easily. Lulu: [00:03:39] No. It's true. We live in a small apartment, and my personal collection jewelry box keeps growing because it's one of those ones that stacks on top of each other. And then the pieces to sell, I have an Ikea unit and we keep it in our little more like a storage room den. And I think my fiance is very happy that it's just jewelry and not racks of clothes. Bex Scott: [00:04:09] I love that. I can relate to you mentioning going through your grandma's jewelry, because that's what I used to do with my granny when I was little. We'd go to her house and the first thing I do is run up to her bedroom and start undoing all of her clothes and her jewelry and going through her drawers. So, I don't do that anymore, because that would be strange. But that kind of started me with my tiny jewelry collection. Most of what I have is from her, passed down, and she always says she has a few more pieces that she needs to give me as well. So it's nice. Mhm. And have you come across any interesting or surprising stories behind some of the pieces that you have? Lulu: [00:04:55] Yeah, absolutely. I think in my personal collection, a lot of the pieces I have are of sentimental value or just pieces that I absolutely love. And I just would not want to sell. But I actually recently found a piece that I just sold that looked very 50s in the style, and the woman I bought it from thought it was from the 50s. And then when I went to do a bit more research about it, it turned out to be a 90s German bracelet, and it was marked Germany on the spring clasp. And that you only find that marking if it's pre-war or post, like the fall of the Berlin Wall. So it's really interesting that this piece looked very 50s, and it actually turned out to be newer from my vintage perspective, but kind of just shows that all like fashion is very cyclical. Even with vintage jewelry, you can, designers will look into the past. And yeah, I thought that was really cool. Bex Scott: [00:05:51] That is really cool. When you're researching the jewelry, do you often find things that are really surprising or is like from your experience, do you kind of understand most of what you've found now before you do the research? Lulu: [00:06:04] That's a great question. I think I have a good base knowledge of that history, having worked at Carol's Collection for a very long time. But you're always learning as you find new pieces or like, as I just said, I thought that piece was 50s. It turned out to be a 90s piece. I'm not a fashion historian. I went to school for graphic design not fashion design in the end. So I'm no expert, but you have to always keep learning and it's nice to like, get books. And when I find a piece that I don't know, I like so many Facebook groups that you can join to learn more or help identify pieces. So yeah, always, always you constantly learn as you go. Bex Scott: [00:06:47] Nice. I went to school for graphic design as well, so that's very cool to meet another graphic designer, and I think that partially put me into collecting as well, because it's so creative and like all the colors and the research, it's kind of goes hand in hand with that creative side of your brain. Lulu: [00:07:06] Absolutely. And I even say, like making content for social media, even though it's more screen time than my day job, it's still very creative. It's like a different type of creative muscle that you're flexing and with collecting too, it's yeah, just as you said, like finding different colors or pieces that are really unique. Yeah I love it as a creative outlet. Bex Scott: [00:07:30] Mhm. So what role do you think vintage costume jewelry has played in fashion history. Lulu: [00:07:37] Yeah great question. As I said I'm not a fashion historian. So I'm going to speak more generally on this. But I do think it's played a role especially for couture designers as a way to reach different audiences. I think like Chanel had clothing, but they also had jewelry, and so that became a little bit more accessible. There's a designer, Kenneth Jay Lane, who had a couture costume collection of jewelry. But then it was like, I want to make sure that my audience is more broad and actually sold on Avon. So it's like it made it more, I think, accessible in that sense. Bex Scott: [00:08:22] Neat. I think I've heard that name before. I wouldn't know any of the pieces, but... Lulu: [00:08:28] So his pieces are in the 60s, and some of his couture pieces are these, like beautiful, like chandelier earrings, really colorful with, like, it's called, like diamante, fake diamonds all around it. And then if you ever see says KJL or Kenneth Lane, those are... Bex Scott: [00:08:47] Okay. Lulu: [00:08:47] And then his, his stuff for like, Avon is very different than that. But it's neat need to see the range of work how it, and over different time as well. Bex Scott: [00:08:59] Mhm. Mm. You brought up Avon and I'm kind of curious how do you feel about Avon Jewelry and some of the vintage. I find so much of it. Lulu: [00:09:10] That's a great question. And I actually just bought a lot of jewelry from a collector who, like, only shopped on the shopping channel, and it was all Avon and like KJL, Joan Rivers, like really fun 80s 90s like Gold Tone. And I like it. I think it really, I only buy what I like. So it to me, it doesn't matter if it's a piece really old like from, you know, like 20s or 30s to a 90s piece from Avon. Like, if you like the style and it speaks to you, I say you should buy it. Bex Scott: [00:09:47] Exactly. I keep finding that Avon Rose. You probably know which one it is. It's the gold stem with the little red top. The brooch. Every time I buy jewelry in, like, a big lot, there's about four of them in there. So I think I have a mini collection of just the Avon Rose. Do you see a resurgence in the popularity of vintage costume jewelry, and how can people kind of incorporate it into their modern wardrobes? Lulu: [00:10:15] I definitely think there is a resurgence, especially like the past year and a half of like, the year of the brooch and everyone wearing brooches. And I mean, you see that even with fine jewelry like that trend. But costume is a way that's more accessible. So you're not spending thousands of dollars on a brooch. You can spend it at a more accessible price point. And it's nice to see, like my clients range in age. So I do think it's popular just with different people and it's coming back. Bex Scott: [00:10:45] Mhm. I love it, I like that the younger generation is starting to wear more jewelry and finding fun ways to wear brooches, whether it's their grandmothers or passed down from family, or if they're just collecting it themselves. I think it's really, really fun and refreshing. Totally. Are there certain designers or brands that shaped the industry and are especially collectible today? Lulu: [00:11:11] I think that really depends on where you're from and what type of jewelry you like to collect. I collect primarily North American and few European designers, but as I said, like really, if I see something I love, it can be from anywhere, it just has to speak to me. There's many costume designers and I actually would recommend this book, it's called Vintage Jewelry Collecting and Wearing Vintage Classics by Caroline Cox. It's a nice overview of fashion history, but specifically from a jewelry perspective. And it showcases different designers throughout different decades. It's been a great resource. There's a lot of other great books out there too, but I just like that it shows that different designers. Bex Scott: [00:11:59] I think that sounds great. Lulu: [00:12:00] For myself, I really love her name is Léa, Léa Stein, and she was a French designer who made buttons, brooches and bangles all out of compressed layers of plastic. So it's really unique. Bex Scott: [00:12:16] That sounds cool. Lulu: [00:12:17] And like they created a lot of unique designs and patterns. And they're really fun brooches. They're just like, I have one umbrella. I have like a little girl. Some flowers are so fun. And I love, like, plastic jewelry. So it's definitely like she's one of the like the renowned plastic artists. And from a Canadian perspective, Sherman Jewelry is definitely the most collectible. He really used amazing like high quality rhinestones, particularly those aurora borealis stones, and it's really sought after. There's a huge community out there of Sherman collectors. Bex Scott: [00:12:56] I think that's one of the Facebook groups that I'm a part of, and it's always fascinating to see how many different Sherman pieces there were and how some were signed and some weren't. So it's hard to tell if you have one or you don't, and... Lulu: [00:13:11] Totally. And it's neat to see too, that like, there's so many different variations of his jewelry, but then there are some styles that I keep seeing, like, I actually just bought a brooch, it's one of the pinwheel brooches. And I feel like now every time I'm on that Facebook group, that style always pops up. And it's like nice to see. I love when I find other collectors who have similar pieces to you because it's so rare because there's the quantity of the jewelry is a lot smaller back then. So, it's really unique. Bex Scott: [00:13:48] That's fun. I have a couple, I have two sets of Sherman earrings, and then I have a bundle that I bought at an auction, and it came with only one lone Sherman earring. And it's the prettiest earring I've ever seen. And it's just gonna sit there alone forever. Lulu: [00:14:06] You could take it to a jeweler and, like, put it on a necklace or something. You want to do-- Bex Scott: [00:14:11] -- That's a good idea-- Lulu: [00:14:12] -- something with it? Bex Scott: [00:14:13] Yeah. I was thinking they should have kind of like a dating app, but for lost jewelry, where you swipe to find the missing pair of your earring. Lulu: [00:14:24] I will find it for you. I actually think I follow one Instagram that's like to find people's pairs. Like she just has single earrings. She might be based in the US, but I'll follow up with them for you. Bex Scott: [00:14:37] That's amazing. I love that. Yeah. So what would you say are some of the key differences between costume jewelry from different decades. You know, there's so much of it. But even 1920s versus 1960s or now, what would you say are some of the key differences? Lulu: [00:14:55] Yeah, that's a great question. I think the big differences are the materials that are used and as well as like how it mirrored fashion trends at the time. So as I said, I love 60s plastic. And there's so much plastic jewelry that's very like mod and colorful and like really reflective of that style. And so it really just depends on the decade and that example that I said like something that looked 50s but actually was 90s. You just need to do a bit more research on. Bex Scott: [00:15:31] Yeah. What would you say about quality. Do you think it's gotten better? Has it gotten worse? Is it kind of the same? Lulu: [00:15:39] Yeah, that's a great question. I don't collect as much contemporary costume and I've just been a vintage collector for so long. But I will say it's amazing the quality of vintage jewelry, that there are pieces that can last hundreds of years. Yeah, I have a necklace that was one of the first pieces of costume jewelry that I ever got. And this is like beautiful, Czech glass necklace. It's cherry red. I wear it all the time. It's so fun. And it's like 100 years old now. It's from the 20s and yeah, it's still in amazing shape. So the fact that it really stands the test of time is quite amazing. No obviously on everything, but a lot of pieces and especially those designer pieces, if you are following and collecting specific people. Bex Scott: [00:16:33] It's kind of fun to think we collect vintage jewelry now, what is it going to be like 100 years from now? Will the jewelry that we're making now still be around, or will it be all broken and degraded? Lulu: [00:16:47] Totally. I mean, there's so much I've seen online, even from a fashion perspective of, like going to thrift stores and a lot of it being fast fashion clothing. And it's not the quality that it was in the past. And so really high quality vintage pieces are harder to come by. Bex Scott: [00:17:09] Have to hold on to them when you find them. Lulu: [00:17:11] Definitely. Bex Scott: [00:17:13] Are there specific gemstones or materials commonly used in vintage jewelry that we don't see as often today? Lulu: [00:17:20] Yes. So this is a great question. And I immediately thought of Bakelite. I don't... Bex Scott: [00:17:26] Yeah. Lulu: [00:17:27] It's one of my favorite things to collect, as I've said many times, I'm a huge plastic collector. So Bakelite, 60s plastic, all of it I just love. And you really don't see Bakelite anymore because it's a type of plastic that had formaldehyde in it. And that wasn't, pretty much stopped using that after the 40s. And so it's very rare, hard to come by and really collectible. Bex Scott: [00:17:55] I think I have a Bakelite bracelet and, let me know if this is true, but somebody said that you can warm it up and it has a smell, and that's how you know, if it's Bakelite. Lulu: [00:18:05] So you have to like, you warm it up either, and like, I usually just like use my thumb on the Bakelite and just rub it a little and then it will smell like formaldehyde and, you know, it's Bakelite. So it's also like the, I don't know how to describe it other than the, like, softness of the plastic. It's a lot softer than other types of plastic. So it has a different feel as well. Bex Scott: [00:18:34] I'm going to go and smell all my bracelets now. So what advice do you have for someone who wants to start collecting vintage costume jewelry? Lulu: [00:18:49] Yeah. I think they should just collect what they love. Everyone should do their research and learn about the history if they want to collect specific designers. But I think by collecting what you love, you just, you're more passionate about it and you enjoy the pieces more. And it's not about, it's not always about a resale value. It's about how you enjoy the pieces as well. Bex Scott: [00:19:14] I like that, that's, I feel like can be applied to so many different things where especially with things like Pyrex, you collect what you like and there's people on groups who post and say is this a good price for it or should I get it? Should I leave it? And I always like the responses that are, well, if you like it, then nothing, nobody else's opinion should really matter. Just collect it because you want it in your home and you want to use it. And that's all that really matters. Lulu: [00:19:41] Exactly. And like Pyrex especially, it's something that you'll use often like we have like the butterfly set that was my fiance's grandparents and I just love them. Bex Scott: [00:19:57] That's so special. Lulu: [00:19:57] I, we use them every day. And so it's like a reminder of something of them, but also just that it's nice to have in your house. Bex Scott: [00:20:07] Yeah, I love that. And for people who have vintage costume jewelry, is there a good way to store the pieces to keep them in good condition? Lulu: [00:20:16] So I would suggest laying them flat when you can. I learned the very hard way not to keep a necklace on one of those, like necklace trees for a long time. It was this beautiful, like, beaded hand strung necklace. I went to put it on and it just completely broke. Bex Scott: [00:20:35] Oh, no. I never even thought of that. Maybe, does it make it weak? From sitting on the tree? Lulu: [00:20:42] The weight of it, of the beads. And because they were glass beads and like the thread over time, like it could wear. And so lay flat, not don't bend things harder if you have limited space, but just treat it as any other jewelry if you want it to last. You want to take good care of it. Bex Scott: [00:21:03] Yeah. What's the best way to clean the jewelry? Lulu: [00:21:06] That's a good question. I find for like, anything with like, sterling or like gold tone, you can get these like, polishing cloths. So I find that better than, like a sterling and... Bex Scott: [00:21:22] Like an actual paste or a cleaner or something. Yeah. Lulu: [00:21:25] I personally find it a lot better. It's hard with dust, so like you could use those cloths as well just to dust things, dust things off. But if you lay things flat and like in jewelry boxes, that's the best way to store and keep things clean because they're not out in areas collecting a lot of dust. Bex Scott: [00:21:45] That sounds good. I need to do some rearranging and shifting of how I have things stored now. Lulu: [00:21:52] It's okay. I mean, I do have a few things that are on top of each other, but. Bex Scott: [00:21:57] Yeah. Lulu: [00:21:57] It's best if you can. So you can give the piece some space. Bex Scott: [00:22:02] That sounds great. And where can people find you online to give you a follow? And where can they shop for your jewelry? Lulu: [00:22:09] Absolutely. So online I'm just on Instagram. It's at Lulu J vintage. You'll see my content as well as you can always send me a message if there's anything particular that you're looking for, because I only post a few of the pieces that I have either online or in store. And if you're in Calgary, I am at two local shops, so I'm at Joyce's Closet Boutique, which is in Kensington, and I'm at BEX Vintage and Mr. Mansfield's Vintage in the Beltline. They're really awesome mid-century furniture shop. Bex Scott: [00:22:46] Very cool. I've been meaning to go to all of those places. And just so everybody knows, the BEX Vintage has nothing to do with me. We are two separate people. Just in case. Just the same name. Awesome. Well, thank you so much Lulu for being on the podcast. I learned a ton today, and I can't wait to go and organize my jewelry and keep collecting. Lulu: [00:23:10] Thank you so much Bex, this is really great and nice to chat jewelry with you. Bex Scott: [00:23:16] Yeah. Everybody go and give Lulu a follow on Instagram. 

In our episode 440 we talk with Brigid Schulte, bestselling author and journalist about:+ How Japan changed its perspective on life and work.+ Facing the Berlin Wall in the 1980s.+ Starting over in journalism while facing rejection.+ Redesigning work for a better future.+ Breaking the burnout culture in companies.+ Humanizing work to prioritize people's quality of life.Join the seventh cohort of the Hackers Talent Academy and take your leadership to the next level: www.hackersdeltalento.com/academia-hackers-del-talento

On Sunday, June 1st, 1980, Ted Turner pressed a button—and CNN went live, beaming 24/7 news into homes across America and changing the media landscape forever, while shrinking time and space forever. In this episode, we sent Julia Thompson to track down and interview people who were at CNN's Atlanta headquarters on day one. What follows is the story of a visionary who dared to build a 24-hour news network on a tight budget—in a world dominated by 30-minute broadcasts and networks spending over $100 million a year on their news. With his own money and a vow to stay on the air “until the world ends,” Ted Turner took on the giants. It's a modern-day David and Goliath tale—driven by technology, entertainment, risk, and pure tenacity. This is how CNN was born. This episode features interviews with: Richard Roth (CNN original. Covered Gulf War, Berlin Wall fall, Tiananmen Square protests, and more) John Huey (former Time Inc. Editor-in-Chief, Fortune Editor. WSJ journalist covering CNN's launch) Jack Lechner (TV/Film Producer. Professor. Multiple-Time Jeopardy! Winner) Steven Livingston (Author, The CNN Effect. Professor) Web Barr Listen to Hi Barr's newest podcast, Media Moguls with Web Barr on your favorite podcast app now. CREDITS 'You Had To Be There' is a Hi Barr production. Created by Hi Barr. 'CNN Launches the 24/7 News Cycle' was written and hosted by Julia Thompson. Produced by Julia Thompson and Web Barr. Edited by Julia Thompson. Edit, Sound Mix, and engineering by Vishal Nayak. Original score by Teeny Lieberson.   Artwork created by Dylan Lathrop. Special thanks to our parents, friends and chosen family. And most importantly, thank you to the artists who've inspired us because they had to do it. MORE FROM HI BARR Sign up to receive our newsletter. Follow us on Instagram and YouTube. For business inquiries, please email: contact@hibarrmedia.com. Were you at one of the events covered on the show? If so, we'd love to talk! Please get in touch via email and/or social media channels like Instagram or X. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Étienne de Crécy is one of the architects of the French Touch movement—those lush, filter-heavy grooves that shaped house music in the ‘90s, right alongside acts like Daft Punk, Air, and Alex Gopher. But his journey didn't start in the clubs. Before electronic music, he was a punk bassist, navigating Parisian record shops that looked down on house music before the scene exploded worldwide.In this conversation, Étienne reflects on three decades of pushing electronic music forward, from his groundbreaking Super Discount series to his latest album, Warm Up. This new record marks a shift—more organic, more vocal-driven, and carrying a double meaning: a reference to its sound, but also a nod to the global moment we're in. “We are just at the warm-up… for the climate, for politics.”We talk about his creative process, his mathematical approach to composition, and why he avoids the easy route of plugins in favor of crate-digging for samples. Plus, the story of how he unearthed a long-lost collaboration with Damon Albarn, recorded twenty years ago and now perfectly fitting Warm Up's aesthetic.As electronic music culture shifts—where younger generations lean into harder, faster sounds—Étienne remains committed to a philosophy: “What I'm learning is to stay simple and to be amazed by simple things.”If you're enjoying Lost and Sound, please do subscribe and leave a rating or review on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you listen. It really helps to spread the word and support Lost and Sound.Étienne de Crécy on InstagramWarm Up Listen/BuyFollow me on Instagram at PaulhanfordLost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-TechnicaMy BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.My book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

Join us in this episode with the legendary Colin Griffith, who shares his groundbreaking work, insights on meditative provings, and the fascinating remedies he has developed over the years. Colin discusses his experiences with the Berlin Wall remedy and the profound impact it has had on his practice, as well as the importance of understanding chakras in relation to homeopathy. He also reflects on his journey of teaching and learning through the Master Practitioner course and the incredible community he has built with his proving group. Whether you're a seasoned homeopath or just starting your journey, this episode is packed with valuable insights, stories, and practical advice that will inspire you to deepen your understanding of homeopathy. Don't forget to check out Colin's books, including the New Materia Medica series and the Repertory, which are essential resources for any homeopath.   Episode Highlights: 04:23 - How Colin's proving group was formed and Janice Micallef's role in it 05:43 - Janice's Unique Approach 10:10 - Ayahuasca: From ‘Really?' to ‘Must-Have 11:47 - The Power of Berlin Wall 18:23 - No Need to Store Remedies Apart 20:41 - The Concept of Meditative Provings 26:26 - Repertory's Hidden Gems 31:45 - Homeopathy Beyond the Books 34:10 - Don't Overload, Listen to the Patient 37:10 - The Case That Changed My Perspective 39:13 - Janice's Surprising Remedy Experience 42:57 - Skeptical About Chakras? Keep Going 45:23 - Challenges Make the Job Worth It 50:55 - The Process Behind Crystal-Infused Essences 54:25 - The Importance of Supporting Remedy Creators 01:03:02 - A Family of Healing Paths 01:09:30 - Sensing the Energy Beyond Words 01:10:54 - The Fig Remedy: Fighting False Info   About my Guest: Colin Griffith is a highly respected homeopath and potter with over 30 years of experience. After studying Homeopathy in London in 1989, he began practicing in East Sussex and Kent in 1991, where he built a thriving practice while also teaching and lecturing on the subject. Colin's expertise has led him to lecture internationally in the USA, Japan, and Europe, and he has authored best-selling books on homeopathy. In 2001, he founded the Griffith Practice, where he collaborates with osteopaths and other homeopaths. Prior to his career in homeopathy, Colin was a classical music composer, but his passion for creativity led him to pottery in 2010. He now designs and throws his own ceramic pieces, showcasing his work in local exhibitions.   Find out more about Colin Website: https://www.griffithpractice.co.uk/   If you would like to support the Homeopathy Hangout Podcast, please consider making a donation by visiting www.EugenieKruger.com and click the DONATE button at the top of the site. Every donation about $10 will receive a shout-out on a future episode.   Join my Homeopathy Hangout Podcast Facebook community here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/HelloHomies   Follow me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/eugeniekrugerhomeopathy/   Here is the link to my free 30-minute Homeopathy@Home online course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqBUpxO4pZQ&t=438s   Upon completion of the course - and if you live in Australia - you can join my Facebook group for free acute advice (you'll need to answer a couple of questions about the course upon request to join): www.facebook.com/groups/eughom

Cáel's second vacation with Aya and friends.Book 3 in 18 parts, By FinalStand. Listen to the ► Podcast at Explicit Novels.Loving your enemy is easy. You know precisely where the two of you standJust in case anyone cares, I do not hate China or the Chinese People. As a Global Power, the PRC is fair game as a great antagonist. Not only do they have, as of 2015, the world's largest economy, largest population and a truly global Diaspora, they also have a rather totalitarian governance system that enables them to devote scary levels of resources to any endeavor they set their minds to.I usually paint all governments to be entities capable of great good (rarely achieved) and great evil (because it makes such enticing fiction). In my stories, it often falls to the people within those institutions to make judgment calls on what is the right thing to do. In my final analysis, there are no 'Evil' governments, just evil people who use the system to get what they want(Right where we left off)"Aya," I spoke to her when she'd finished up by giving Mu a strong dose of a pain killer, "Now go back to the galley and find the nice medic-lady there. She has a bottle filled with some of those kick-ass sedatives. Inject everyone else but me, you, Zhen here and Mu, Mu's had enough drugs for one day.""Okay," she popped up. She turned fearlessly to face her former tormentors and jailors."I had them all swear an oath to Ishara to not kill, harm, or restrain you in any manner, so have fun hunting them down. You've got about thirty minutes.""Is Dot with us right now?" she gave me a bone-tired smile. I nodded. "This is going to be fun," she shouted and off she went.'I'll be by her side', Dot whispered to me. She rose forth from the seat within me and followed Aya out into Seven Pillars Hell. Technically, I believed it was the Diyu of the Fiendish Child. Those malicious bastards suffered every accident, misfortune, and nearly-impossible odds malfunction in the process of being subdued by a 9 year old Amazon.Four of them died in the process of trying to kill her, when stopping her became obviously impossible. Two had their guns blow up when they tried to shoot her, dismembering their hands and wrists. One guy was strangled in his emergency oxygen supply mask. The last guy lunged forward, slipped on a cup and broke his neck when his head was caught in a folded armrest.Twenty-eight nerve wracking minutes later."All done," she gave me an exhausted yet triumphant chirp. "Should I strap Mr. Mu into a chair? He's passed out.""Zhen, buckle your brother into a chair and hurry back. I'll hold us steady until you get back."Remember, I had only the use of my left hand. My right had to stay on the dagger to keep things powered up."Buckle-up after you've gotten Duan Mu secured, Aya. That's his proper name.""I know that. I was trying to keep them irritated so they would act irrationally. You taught me that," Aya bathed me in her sinister ways and means.Finally, it was down to me and Zhen. "Do you think we will succeed, Cáel Wakko Ishara?" "I'm giving it my best shot." "The little girl was right," Zhen groaned. "She told us we'd regret not killing you in New York when we had the chance. I thought she was being an annoying spoiled brat. I was wrong." Pause. "I know you have no reason to answer me truthfully, but when we, the rest of us, die, could you make sure my brother's body is returned to my father so that he can join our ancestors in the family grave?" "Why do you think I would lie to you now that we are alone?" That was a loaded question. I did the majority of my lying when I was alone with a woman. "I, will you give me your Oath, in your Goddess's name?" "Nope. My Goddess has pretty much been exhausted by your boys trying to break their vows to me and Aya. I'll tell you what I will do, " "What?" "Show me your tits and I'll promise to do my best." "What? You want to see me naked?" she grew indignant. "No!" It was her being a vaginal virgin (I knew the type ~ good oral technique and bed play, but no 'go-uppy' the cunt, or ass) and me not being Han Chinese, therefore being a 'Stinky Barbarian'. "Listen, I've never flown a commercial jet before and neither have you. Odds are we are both going to be dead in the next ten minutes. After all the hell you have put me through, can you at least give me some fucking inspiration. No one will ever know. Besides, imagining the perfect swell of your breast and the smooth tautness of your stomach, well, you are so damn perfect it is distracting!" I protested against the World's grand injustice (me not being Han and thus not worthy of seeing her goodies). "Do you really think we are all about to die?" she studied me. "I'm doing my best, but, yes, I believe we are," I stared deep into her dark brown orbs.'You are despicable,' Ishara chortled. 'I promise you, plant your seed and she will bear you a son.' "Very well, hold onto the controls," she said as she released her joystick. She rolled up her padded (high-tech body-weave) shirt carefully. I was a past master of looking while pretending not too look. Still, "Can I look yet?" I hesitantly questioned. Sure, we were about to slam an Airbus-350 into the Pacific Ocean, or a concrete runway, no lights, in a cyclone, but she was 'working it'. For all she knew, this striptease would be her last living memory. "No." A few seconds passed. "Now?" "No." Oh, her top was just cresting her highly aroused nipples, she had tiny, erect nipples. The smallest I had ever seen, but long, almost like tiny awls. Finally she'd played it out as long as possible. "Okay." "No, wait," I begged. "Let me make sure everything is stable. I want to look at you for as long as I can. This will probably be the last happy moment of my life, so I want to make the most of it." That made her happy. I puttered around for five seconds, then pivoted around to take in her full, topless view. I didn't say anything for the longest time. "Aren't you done yet," she grumbled. "We are about to crash." "Oh, sorry," I turned away. She rolled her top down quickly and we returned to trying to keep the people we loved most in life alive. I sensed as sense of disappointment in her nonetheless."Perfect," I whispered. She caught it. "What did you say? Is something wrong?" she worried, studying her crippled command console for any errors she might have missed. "I said 'perfect'. I knew it, your body is perfect," I confessed. Pause. "Oh, " "Now I have something to live for," I declared. "I will never let you see me naked again. This was a one-time thing!" "That's two things I have to live for then," I countered. "Bringing us in alive and seeing me naked once more?" she had to be sure. "I was going to say 'seeing you naked again' and 'living', but I can see that your priorities make more sense," I conceded. "Ah, you are right, that I am right." Pause. "Good luck." "On seeing you naked again, or surviving our landing." "Let's start out by landing the plane. "And then, Duan Zhen?" "We will see, Cáel Ishara."{9 pm, Tuesday, August 16th ~ 23 Days to go}{aka 2 am Wednesday, Aug. 17th ~ 22 Days to go (Havenstone time)}(The following is in Mandarin until I note otherwise)"What are you doing?" I struggled to keep the panic from my voice."Killing all these alarms," Zhen responded. She was grinding her teeth in frustration and fear. "There is nothing we can do to fix those problems.""My, right rudder, its barely responding," I grunted. This was fly-by-wire, not typical manual control, so my concern was entirely mental, not wanting to miss our turn south into the sole runaway on Johnston Atoll. With the steady degradation of the plane's electronics, we wouldn't make the 360 for another pass.Landing from the southern end of the runway would put the cyclone force winds behind us. There would be no way for the plane's two inexperienced pilots to make that miraculous landing happen. No, we had to approach form the north, into the winds and allow nature to slow us down."On it, I'm good," she confirmed that her co-pilot's systems were still doing their job. "Tell me when we are making our final approach." Zhen, my Seven Pillars of Heaven co-pilot (and designated assassin), couldn't see where we were going. Our avionics had perished earlier in this disaster.Goddess Dot Ishara was communicating with Goddess SzélAnya who was frolicking in this maelstrom; the Draconic Storm Divinity was in her element. Dot was 'in' her element as well ~ her last living mortal descendent (me), if you didn't count all those unborn offspring I'd been contributing to in the past few weeks.'Are you thinking about me, Wakko?' she whispered into my mind. I was Wakko Ishara. I was supposed to be Yakko, but that hadn't worked out. As the 'main girl' in the relationship between me, the leader of her Amazon House, and Yakko Ishara ~ my first Ishara ancestor ~ she earned the slot of Dot (see Warner Bros.) Ishara.One of her earliest gifts to me was to make my mind inviolate to ALL supernatural penetration which was the reason she was bothering to ask about my thoughts and intentions.'Yes,' I thought back. 'I'm worried you are expending too much energy on my behalf, Dot.''Opposed to leaving you alone with SzélAnya? I don't trust her around you. She'd make a little Dragon-offspring/avatar with you if I'm not careful.''If you aren't careful? Don't I get a say in all of this?''No. Trust me, she's clingy and you are more active than a whole temple of Babylon's whores. Her mortal avatar would further bond your two legends together and your Legend is already the prop, placed with House Ishara.' Translation: My Goddess was clingy. After all, she'd meant to say my legend was her 'property'."Flaps!" Zhen yelled at me. "Check your flaps. Mine keep shorting out.""On it," I replied. I'd 'zoned out', so she'd screamed at me to get my attention back on task. Altitude, 1200 meters, which meant flaps at, fuck if I knew."What do I set them, Oh Shit!" I realized I'd forgotten something horribly imperiling."What?" Zhen shot me a furious look."Fuel! We've got to start dumping the fuel!" I screamed."Why?""Fireball, Zhen. If we hit hard, this bitch will barbeque us," I spit the words. "Don't you watch any airplane crash movies?" I added."The Airbus 350 has plenty of, safeguards,""You mean like all the other ones that have failed us in the past half hour?""Opening main tanks #1 and #2," she grumbled. "If we are struck by another lightning bolt we could blow up in mid-air.""Won't happen," I feebly jested. "The Storm Goddess loves me.""Does she love my brother and I?""Nah. She wants you and everyone else on this plane dead, but she's humoring me right now.""Flaps," she reminded me. "Why would she care about you?""Having no other useful skills, I am a truly remarkable lover."Zhen spared me a blistering look."You have seized this aircraft from my brother, me and forty of our best Special Operations Strike Warriors. That does not qualify you as 'unskilled'," she lambasted me."Oh no? You should see a 'real' Amazon in action," I teased her. "I'm just an intern who hasn't yet completed his 84 day trial period." I also worked the flaps."Too much," she snapped. "If we drop below 400 kilometers per hour, these winds will slam us into the Pacific."I was adjusting the flaps appropriately as we began our final roll to the left when a cloud-to-cloud bolt of electricity coursed through our craft. We didn't blow up."Thank you, SzélAnya," I whispered."What?" Zhen worried. Fucking up now would be the end of us all.'Your gratitude is overdue, Cáel,' SzélAnya slipped her murmur into the crashing thunder and another lash of raw, natural fury. 'We will talk later.'"I thought you said she loves you.""Umm, did I forget to mention I told her I was going out for pizza and never called her back?""That makes no sense," Zhen glared at me briefly. I was gifted with a visual of our plane in perspective to the runway. Yay, five meter waves were smashing into the atoll. I adjusted our yaw to the right."We are three kilometers out," I advised her."Flaps, spoilers," I went over my limited Alal-knowledge. This stuff worked on a piston driven commercial liner and it was the only flight data I had."Landing gear," Zhen responded. She had to throttle up a little because all that drag was cutting into our speed.'You are being blown too far to the east,' SzélAnya advised. I did the best I could."What are you doing?" Zhen was starting to sweat."Responding to divine intervention.""I, I see it!" Zhen's panic turned to exultation as she could finally make out the pale concrete runway surrounded by the angry sea.Too disasters hit us simultaneously."The left landing gear is not fully deployed," Zhen cautioned me."We are coming in too fast anyway," I dryly noted. The Goddess had brought me in on target, but she knew nothing about aircraft aeronautics.The Airbus came down too hard, too fast and our left landing gear snapped on impact. Sarrat Irkalli's parting gift was decay. Every design weak point gave in. The front fuselage broke apart, my hand on the dagger slipped and the power died. The front 25% of the plane spun off to the west while the remainder shot down the runway and off the southern end of the island.Sadly we went off into the lagoon between the western side and the barrier reef. In a delayed bit of good fortune, our careening section went head to head against a massive storm surge."Go!" I screamed at Zhen.She snatched up her Jian that she had used to pin the undead necromancer Tsu. I was right behind her, though I did stop to retrieve Sarrat Irkalli's dagger and pluck the two bone reliquaries from his neck before following Zhen's tight, athletic buns out of the cockpit and toward Aya. My diminutive better half was still in her seatbelt and clutching the medical bag to her chest.(English) "Cáel, I think we are sinking," she noted with a twinge of concern and more courage than I felt like utilizing. As Zhen was rescuing her brother the enormity of my mistake sunk in. All the Seven Pillars people were unconscious thus unable to save themselves from drowning. Aya's survival came first. I'd worried about my 'would-be executioners' later.I swept up Aya so fast it took me a second to realize she was poking me. She had retrieved the trinkets Felix had given Mu, our phone cards, my Dot-treats and my Amazon blade. I quickly strapped the blade to my arm. The water was rushing in through the severed back section.I turned to see Zhen struggling with her brother. Her look said it all. She expected them both to die. She wouldn't abandon him to save herself and the waves were too rough to make it with him."Get as far as you can," I shouted to her over the typhoon strength winds. "I'll come back for you."Her face expressed how little faith she put in my promise. Zhen had no choice left to her. I cut off two lengths of seat-belt to give Aya a harness to wrap over my shoulder and opposite underarm. I used the second piece to create her harness I linked with my own. {Back to English as the primary language}"He'll come back for you," Aya tried to assure Zhen while I worked."Aya, take a deep breath then expel it," I advised. The second she did I dove into the water. I had never attempted to swim in water this nasty, but I had been dumped into a white water rapids before. That was the best I had.Somehow in the madness, I pointed myself in the right direction. Once more, the storm came to my rescue. Two monster waves picked us up and pushed us toward the edge of the runway.'Go to the north end of the island,' Ishara told me. There is a building there that will shelter you, and Cáel, I must leave now. Don't do it.''I can't not try,' I replied. 'Can you help Aya?' I gave one last appeal. No reply. I twisted southward to locate the next monster wave. My precious cargo pressed tightly to my upper torso, I flipped over so that my feet were facing toward the onrushing runway. I'm not as dumb as I look, or sound.I bent my knees in the same way they instruct you when you go cliff diving. Up we went. I pulled Aya and I as deep into the water as possible, up, up, crest and then down-down-down. My bare right foot hit something jagged and sharp. I'd worry about bleeding later. The momentum of that contact tried to tilt me head-first, but I resisted.My left foot slapped down on a hard, smooth, granular surface, the sea wall. Now I swam backwards with my free arm while I raced to get my right foot back under me. My body ended up surging forward, yet I was in control of my movements once more. I rolled with the impact, taking the brunt to my left shoulder while shielding Aya with my right. Three rolls and I was on my feet again."Aya!" I beseeched my companion."That was fun," she yelled back over the hurricane force winds. "Let's try to do this next year," the rest was lost. I kept staggering forward in about a foot of water that the storm had flooded over the land. I looked behind me.The next wave was unfriendly. The one behind that one appeared to be a lot like what I imagined a Berlin Wall-sized tombstone would look like. I ran. I survived the first wave then gave Aya a cautionary squeeze. I felt her tiny lungs inflate, soak up the salt-water spray and oxygen then flush the air back out.A few more steps then we plunged back sideways into the monster current ~ the wave had already crashed."What did you say?" I shook Aya as we surfaced once more."Next year, much later next year," she grinned up at me."Aya, do you think you can,""Yes. Go find them. You gave her your word," she hugged me."Stay on the runway, head north, Dot says there is a building up there that is still intact. Aya, take this," I handed her the pistol and a spare mag."Do you promise you won't let me die today?" she shouted over the winds. I had to think about that. Aya rammed the pistol and magazine into her medical bag's side pocket. Oaths had their own power and maybe, just maybe, Dot Ishara would help me honor this one."I swear to you, I will not let you die today," I yelled back."Then go and hurry," she hugged me as I cut her loose. "She needs you more than I do. Go!" With that, we separated. Aya slugged forward a few steps, was staggered by another wave then turned and gave me her 'thumbs up'.I turned to the south and the blinding winds and terrible surf. I had to try. Alal kicked in. Jumbo commercial airliners = no help. Shipwrecks = he'd survived a few. I mapped out in my mind the waves, winds and their direction relative to the plane. I could still make out its half-submerged shape.The edge of the runway had a U-shaped seawall which created a peak that channeled the waves. I couldn't see the structure itself due to the high tide, but I could locate the wall by watching the waves break. If I could get to the outside of the eastern peak, I would have an easier time going about this rescue. Also, if Zhen wasn't brought in by the same waves that saved Aya and I, she would be driven to the northwest, parallel to the island.I could intercept them. I'd effective killed everyone else. Maybe, I dove in.'Don't!'“Too late, SzélAnya,” I vaulted off the semi-submerged sea wall, then let the undertow pull me along the broken coral rocks the Navy had put there when they expanded the airfield in the 1960's.I kept my hands on the rocks, rock climbing in reverse. The waves passing overhead tried to pluck me up and return me to the land. I moved as rapidly as I could, until my muscles ached from the water's chill and oxygen starvation. My lungs were on fire. I let the next wave pull me up.Fortune favors the foolish should be my new motto. I broke the surface just after another large wave passed by. I kept my breathing short and steady, despite my burning hunger for air. Gulping air would only earn me a mouthful of salt water. I took the reprieve in the storm's efforts to drown me.The 'foolish' was waiting for me four meters away, slightly behind me and to the East. Zhen was being dragged past the atoll. I kept one eye on her progress and the other on the waves. A monster rolled up, I dove under and thus resurfaced less than two meters away. Zhen had Mu in a classic rescue swim position. He was still likely to suffocate in this downpour.The look in her eyes was, pure confliction. I cut through the last bit of ocean to be at her side. My first action was to point to the next tidal beast heading for us.(Mandarin) "I've got him. Dive beneath the wave," I hollered. Had she resisted, all three of us would have been screwed. She didn't.I took another deep breathe then sort of freaked her out. I clamped my mouth over Mu's and expelled my air into his lungs. My right arm snaked under his left with my hand grabbing the back of his head. I shoved his head tightly against my face, pressing his nose shut, then dove. Zhen was right behind me.After that, we had our routine down. Zhen took Mu every fourth wave. Breathing for both him and me was tough. I'd take him back for the fifth and slowly we made ourselves to the eastern shore. I hit first, fell flat on my face but kept a hold on Mu. I temporarily lost sight of Zhen. One life at a time.I lugged Mu up, staggered his unconscious and my exhausted forms a few feet and then was toppled by yet another wall of water. This time, when I returned to a standing position, I check Mu's breathing. He would make it. I few more steps, another wave. I kept my footing that time. Another, Zhen came careening our way from the North. The waves had swept her passed us.Zhen immediately looped her arm under Mu's right arm. That allowed her, me and our shared burden to slog another meter inland, then the next wave caught up with us. Zhen fell; I stumbled, but righted myself and thus kept Mu from being washed away. Zhen rolled a few feet forward, rebounded up, only to be shoved away when a gust of wind hit us.On her next attempt, she rejoined us. From that point onward, we were far enough away from the land's end so that we were slogging through standing water and could resist the waves that impacted us.(Mandarin) "You came back," she shouted.There were all kinds of romantic, chivalric and very true responses to that. I chose a half-lie. (Mandarin) "I really wanted to see your tits one more time," I yelled. The looks she gave me was priceless. She was convinced I was a lunatic ~ no doubt about it.While she puzzled out her reaction/retort, we chanced upon a Quonset hut. In its lee, we caught a break from the worst of the wind. We also picked up a little Epona who had made the same logical choice (to get out of the wind) as we had. My heart leapt for joy. She was grinning like an impish hellion as she tried to tell me something.I leaned down until her lips were touching my ear."I forgot to pack my swimsuit," she chortled."It's probably sitting at home along with my surfboard," I kissed her on the forehead. "How about we get inside, somewhere?" Aya nodded.(Mandarin) "Let's go," I roared. Zhen nodded briefly. We turned Mu around so we would be dragging him with his back to the winds. The journey to the structure SzélAnya had pointed me at (the J O C building) took over an hour and a half to cover the two kilometers. Along the way, Aya discovered her inner Peter Pan.That was the childish fiction I was going to use to explain what she did when I regaled this episode to her Mother, assuming we made it back. In common parlance, a gust of wind that must have been about 150 kilometers per hour picked her up and off she went. Hell, I'd honored my oath to Zhen. I dropped Mu and raced after my own personal good luck fairy.A freak micro-burst, shot Aya up so high I lost track of her in the rain.'Please'.I saw my tiny human javelin plummeting to earth several meters away. Aya had refused to mitigate her fate by releasing the medical bag. I jumped, caught her and took another hard spill to the ground, Aya on top of me. She said something to me.I made it back to my knees, clutching a standing Aya firmly to my chest."I said 'I've had enough fun for today," she sputtered. "Can we go inside now?"'You now owe me a life, I go,''Thank you'. If she heard me, she didn't acknowledge it. The storm didn't relent its assault, that was for sure.I couldn't risk losing Aya again. I had placed Zhen and Mu on solid ground so she returned to being my top priority. I slogged my way through the typhoon, cyclone, 'what have you', only to find a solid steel door between Aya and safety. I felt volcanic fury building up inside me. Then I remembered I still had a few firearms,The QCW spoke and the door popped opened. I raced around the first interior corner, deposited Aya, ran back to the door, reverse course, raced back to Aya, kissed her cheek then ran back out into the blinding rain and battering winds. Zhen was right where I'd left her. She had relied on me coming back, damn her.(The J S O C Building)Five minutes later, I had the Seven Pillars twins inside and the door wedged shut. We were all temporarily safe. Here and there small puddles of water had formed from leaks above, but otherwise the structure was solid, sound and safe. Zhen and Mu were on the opposite side of the room. After she tended to her brother, she looked my way.I took the medical bag from a wide-eyed and happy Aya."We are down to two of them," she shivered. "Perhaps you should ask her to surrender now, while they still can?" I snorted then chuckled."Do you really think the proud scions of Duan will bow before the Amazons?" I asked her. Aya fatigued mind worked that question over."No, you are right. I don't think they are smart enough to know when they are beat. Cáel, they called me 'Chǒul u de cuüw ', or something like that," Aya kept her eyes on Zhen. "What does that mean?" It took me a second to piece that together. You can tell a great deal about people if you catch them talking about you behind your backs, or when they think you can't understand what they are saying."Ugly Bug," I translated. Aya snorted."That was rude. We can call her 'L s la ninda'," she proclaimed loud enough for Zhen to hear, "and we can call him Amar."I had to applaud her choice of names for our would-be killers.See, L s la ninda roughly translated from Amazon to English as 'cupcake'. Amar was Amazon for 'calf' which was a play on his Mandarin name, 'Mu'."Dumu?" I indicated her. Aya's eyes sparkled. Duma was the diminutive for 'daughter'."Atta," she murmured back. That was 'respectful Father'; a title no Amazon girl had addressed a man with in, well maybe, ever. The term was largely religious and only used in the terms of female divinities referring to divine paternals."Take the gun," I withdrew the QSW-06 from the medical bag. "I'm going to take a look at Mu."I wasn't a surgeon, most of my medical skills were self-taught (I get hurt a great deal), I was personally acquainted with pain and I wasn't easily grossed out. Alal's past granted me beaucoup knowledge to fill in the gaps. Mu was going to be okay.His problems were the bullet hole, blood loss, our mutual damp condition and his complete exhaustion. Zhen knelt close by as I cut open his pants. The bullet was still in him. I was guessing the round had cracked his femur, not broken it. I cleaned out the wound with minimal disturbance to Mu's sleep. The antiseptic came next, followed by the wrapping and finally a syringe of general antibiotic.(Mandarin) "Let's find something to dress ourselves in and then we all need to get out of these wet clothes. If we don't shed these clothes soon, we'll get a chill we don't need," I advised.(Mandarin) "How bad is it?" she asked. She meant her brother's condition.(Mandarin) "He'll be okay. Feel free to try and kill me when you wish. He doesn't need me anymore." That, pretty much confirmed for her what she suspected, I was a lunatic.(Mandarin) "Well, okay. Thank you. I will not kill the child; I have given you my word."(Mandarin) "Are you talking about 'Ugly Bug'?"(Mandarin) "Oh. I thought she didn't know our language either," she blushed then frowned. "She never revealed she understood our words."(Mandarin) "She doesn't. Aya has a phenomenal memory. All Amazons are taught from a very young age to develop a strong eye for detail. This includes remembering words spoken around them, even if they don't know their meaning."That silenced her. The medical kit gifted us with five glow sticks.The women paired up to search the first, second, third and fourth floors; I didn't trust Zhen to find something useful and report it to me. I knew women. She wouldn't kill Aya tonight and Aya would keep her

EP 236: In this deeply moving episode of Revival Town Podcast, we sit down with Gary Wilkerson—pastor, author, and president of World Challenge—to discuss revival among the poor and the church's call to care for orphans and widows. Gary shares an unforgettable story about rescuing orphans after the fall of the Berlin Wall and unpacks the biblical mandate of pure religion as described in James 1:27. His passion for reaching the most vulnerable and his wisdom on how the global church can unite to bring lasting change make this an episode you won't want to miss.Prepare to be inspired by one of the most humble and compassionate ministers of the Gospel we've ever met. This conversation is sure to be a favorite!

Loraine James is one of the most forward-thinking artists in electronic music today. Her sound is instinctive, fluid, and deeply personal—whether she's crafting glitchy, jazz-infused beats, bending genre expectations on Hyperdub, or exploring mood and texture through her Whatever the Weather project.In this episode of Lost and Sound, Loraine talks about her approach to making music without rigid plans, letting emotion and instinct guide the process. She shares insights into the creative freedom that shapes her work, from improvisation to embracing imperfections in her own way. We also dive into the personal themes in her music, including the deeply moving 2003, a track that reflects on loss and memory.With a new Whatever The Weather album out now on Ghostly International, Loraine talks about the balance between control and spontaneity, how she navigates external expectations without compromising her sound, and why she's never been interested in fitting into any one scene. Thoughtful, open, and refreshingly down-to-earth, I feel we got a rare look into the mindset of an artist constantly pushing her own boundaries.If you're enjoying Lost and Sound, please do subscribe and leave a rating or review on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you listen. It really helps to spread the word and support Lost and Sound.Loraine James on InstagramWhatever The Weather on BandcampFollow me on Instagram at PaulhanfordLost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-TechnicaMy BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.My book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

Welcome to Monday Night Live Welcome to another insightful episode of and now a leading expert on mnday Night Live! I'm Derek Arden, and this week, I'm joined by the fantastic Michael Dodd – a seasoned journalist, foreign correspondent, Media communication and interview techniques. Michael's career kicked off in Sydney with the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC), where he was trained in the art of asking “blowtorch on the belly” questions – tough, persistent inquiries designed to put real pressure on political figures. This phrase, coined by an Australian politician, became the backbone of Michael's journalistic style, pushing for truth and accountability. In our conversation, Michael shares his journey from covering politics in Canberra to witnessing the historic revolutions of Eastern Europe, including the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Velvet Revolution in Prague. He tells a captivating story of interviewing Václav Havel, the Czech dissident-playwright who would later become president. Havel's masterful response to a tough question about his political ambitions became a defining moment in Michael's career and illustrates how great communicators can turn pointed questions into opportunities for impactful messaging. As we shift to modern-day media dynamics, Michael offers a behind-the-scenes look at how journalists operate during high-stakes press conferences, like those with Prime Ministers or Presidents. He explains how competitive journalists, from Sky News to the BBC, often don't coordinate their questions but instead aim to deliver the sharpest queries for their respective audiences and editors. We also dive into Michael's transition from journalism to media training. He now teaches business leaders, politicians, and even sports coaches how to respond to difficult questions with confidence and clarity. His approach is rooted in integrity – always advocating for honest and effective communication rather than evasiveness. Michael introduces us to his golden formula, the ABCDE method, for crafting powerful responses to tough questions: A: Answer the question (or acknowledge it if you can't fully respond).B: Bridge – smoothly transition to your key message.C: Content – deliver your core message clearly and concisely.D: Dangle – set up your example or supporting evidence.E: Example – share a compelling story or data point to reinforce your message.Throughout the session, Michael emphasizes the importance of preparation and truth, especially in an age where disinformation can easily sway public opinion. We touch on the rise of false narratives, citing figures like Donald Trump and Elon Musk, and the challenges this poses for credible journalism. Michael underlines the critical role journalists play in combating misinformation and holding power to account – a responsibility that's never been more vital. We also discuss how these media dynamics affect leaders in business and sports. Michael shares anecdotes from his media training with rugby league teams and how captains and managers can apply the ABCDE formula to defuse criticism and refocus on positive actions, even under pressure from hostile media or frustrated fans. From dissecting press conference tactics to reflecting on the wider implications of truth and integrity in public discourse, Michael brings a wealth of wisdom, wit, and practical advice to this conversation. For those interested in learning more about Michael's approach, he mentions his book, Great Answers to Tough Questions at Work, which dives deeper into his ABCDE strategy and how to stay composed and effective when the heat is on. If you're a business leader, media professional, or just someone keen to sharpen your communication skills, you won't want to miss this masterclass.

EP 236: In this deeply moving episode of Revival Town Podcast, we sit down with Gary Wilkerson—pastor, author, and president of World Challenge—to discuss revival among the poor and the church's call to care for orphans and widows. Gary shares an unforgettable story about rescuing orphans after the fall of the Berlin Wall and unpacks the biblical mandate of pure religion as described in James 1:27. His passion for reaching the most vulnerable and his wisdom on how the global church can unite to bring lasting change make this an episode you won't want to miss.Prepare to be inspired by one of the most humble and compassionate ministers of the Gospel we've ever met. This conversation is sure to be a favorite!

Check more of Kate work at: Colourful Conversations Podcast:   https://spoti.fi/42eByBA  Buy the best seller Colourful Boardrooms: https://amzn.to/4gjDe0i If people want to check out the summit then the best place is: https://focsummit.comAnd to give them a taste of our work share this: https://bit.ly/3WWQEIS (it's a 9 part series and then they can subscribe to our youtube channel.They can find us on the socials here: Linkedin, InstagramandFacebook Check out retreat info at: https://bit.ly/4gJiFv2Check out this 9 part series at the youtube channel : https://bit.ly/3WWQEIS Find Kate at: Linkedin, Instagram and FacebookThe Foundation of Colours is an organization that explores the profound impact of colour on human consciousness, health, and well-being.We do this by utilising cutting-edge research, consultancy, and by providing experiential learning both on and offline to inform and transform individuals, teams and businesses.We aim to elevate consciousness to shape a more connected, conscious society. Our vision is to create systemic change by harnessing the power of colour to influence emotional, spiritual, and social intelligence in individuals, teams, and organizations.Find out more by checking out their free 3 day online summit at https://focsummit.comTime Stamps:—-------------------------------------------Show notes timestamps 

By Walt HickeyDouble feature today!Welcome to the Numlock Sunday edition.This week, I spoke to Alissa Wilkinson who is out with the brand new book, We Tell Ourselves Stories: Joan Didion and the American Dream Machine.I'm a huge fan of Alissa, she's a phenomenal critic and I thought this topic — what happens when one of the most important American literary figures heads out to Hollywood to work on the most important American medium — is super fascinating. It's a really wonderful book and if you're a longtime Joan Didion fan or simply a future Joan Didion fan, it's a look at a really transformative era of Hollywood and should be a fun read regardless.Alissa can be found at the New York Times, and the book is available wherever books are sold.This interview has been condensed and edited. All right, Alissa, thank you so much for coming on.Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to be back, wherever we are.Yes, you are the author of We Tell Ourselves Stories: Joan Didion and the American Dream Machine. It's a really exciting book. It's a really exciting approach, for a Joan Didion biography and placing her in the current of American mainstream culture for a few years. I guess just backing out, what got you interested in Joan Didion to begin with? When did you first get into her work?Joan Didion and I did not become acquainted, metaphorically, until after I got out of college. I studied Tech and IT in college, and thus didn't read any books, because they don't make you read books in school, or they didn't when I was there. I moved to New York right afterward. I was riding the subway. There were all these ads for this book called The Year of Magical Thinking. It was the year 2005, the book had just come out. The Year of Magical Thinking is Didion's National Book Award-winning memoir about the year after her husband died, suddenly of a heart attack in '03. It's sort of a meditation on grief, but it's not really what that sounds like. If people haven't read it's very Didion. You know, it's not sentimental, it's constantly examining the narratives that she's telling herself about grief.So I just saw these ads on the walls. I was like, what is this book that everybody seems to be reading? I just bought it and read it. And it just so happened that it was right after my father, who was 46 at the time, was diagnosed with a very aggressive leukemia, and then died shortly thereafter, which was shocking, obviously. The closer I get to that age, it feels even more shocking that he was so young. I didn't have any idea how to process that emotion or experience. The book was unexpectedly helpful. But it also introduced me to a writer who I'd never read before, who felt like she was looking at things from a different angle than everyone else.Of course, she had a couple more books come out after that. But I don't remember this distinctly, but probably what happened is I went to some bookstore, The Strand or something, and bought The White Album and Slouching Towards Bethlehem off the front table as everyone does because those books have just been there for decades.From that, I learned more, starting to understand how writing could work. I didn't realize how form and content could interact that way. Over the years, I would review a book by her or about her for one publication or another. Then when I was in graduate school, getting my MFA in nonfiction, I wrote a bit about her because I was going through a moment of not being sure if my husband and I were going to stay in New York or we were going to move to California. They sort of obligate you to go through a goodbye to all that phase if you are contemplating that — her famous essay about leaving New York. And then, we did stay in New York City. But ultimately, that's 20 years of history.Then in 2020, I was having a conversation (that was quite-early pandemic) with my agent about possible books I might write. I had outlined a bunch of books to her. Then she was like, “These all sound like great ideas. But I've always wanted to rep a book on Joan Didion. So I just wanted to put that bug in your ear.” I was like, “Oh, okay. That seems like something I should probably do.”It took a while to find an angle, which wound up being Didion in Hollywood. This is mostly because I realized that a lot of people don't really know her as a Hollywood figure, even though she's a pretty major Hollywood figure for a period of time. The more of her work I read, the more I realized that her work is fruitfully understood as the work of a woman who was profoundly influenced by (and later thinking in terms of Hollywood metaphors) whether she was writing about California or American politics or even grief.So that's the long-winded way of saying I wasn't, you know, acquainted with her work until adulthood, but then it became something that became a guiding light for me as a writer.That's really fascinating. I love it. Because again I think a lot of attention on Didion has been paid since her passing. But this book is really exciting because you came at it from looking at the work as it relates to Hollywood. What was Didion's experience in Hollywood? What would people have seen from it, but also, what is her place there?The directly Hollywood parts of her life start when she's in her 30s. She and her husband — John Gregory Dunn, also a writer and her screenwriting partner — moved from New York City, where they had met and gotten married, to Los Angeles. John's brother, Nick Dunn later became one of the most important early true crime writers at Vanity Fair, believe it or not. But at the time, he was working as a TV producer. He and his wife were there. So they moved to Los Angeles. It was sort of a moment where, you know, it's all well and good to be a journalist and a novelist. If you want to support yourself, Hollywood is where it's at.So they get there at a moment when the business is shifting from these big-budget movies — the Golden Age — to the new Hollywood, where everything is sort of gritty and small and countercultural. That's the moment they arrive. They worked in Hollywood. I mean, they worked literally in Hollywood for many years after that. And then in Hollywood even when they moved back to New York in the '80s as screenwriters still.People sometimes don't realize that they wrote a bunch of produced screenplays. The earliest was The Panic in Needle Park. Obviously, they adapted Didion's novel Play It As It Lays. There are several others, but one that a lot of people don't realize they wrote was the version of A Star is Born that stars Barbra Streisand and Kris Kristofferson. It was their idea to shift the Star is Born template from Hollywood entities to rock stars. That was their idea. Of course, when Bradley Cooper made his version, he iterated on that. So their work was as screenwriters but also as figures in the Hollywood scene because they were literary people at the same time that they were screenwriters. They knew all the actors, and they knew all the producers and the executives.John actually wrote, I think, two of the best books ever written on Hollywood decades apart. One called The Studio, where he just roamed around on the Fox backlot. For a year for reasons he couldn't understand, he got access. That was right when the catastrophe that was Dr. Doolittle was coming out. So you get to hear the inside of the studio. Then later, he wrote a book called Monster, which is about their like eight-year long attempt to get their film Up Close and Personal made, which eventually they did. It's a really good look at what the normal Hollywood experience was at the time: which is like: you come up with an idea, but it will only vaguely resemble the final product once all the studios get done with it.So it's, it's really, that's all very interesting. They're threaded through the history of Hollywood in that period. On top of it for the book (I realized as I was working on it) that a lot of Didion's early life is influenced by especially her obsession with John Wayne and also with the bigger mythology of California and the West, a lot of which she sees as framed through Hollywood Westerns.Then in the '80s, she pivoted to political reporting for a long while. If you read her political writing, it is very, very, very much about Hollywood logic seeping into American political culture. There's an essay called “Inside Baseball” about the Dukakis campaign that appears in Political Fictions, her book that was published on September 11, 2001. In that book, she writes about how these political campaigns are directed and set up like a production for the cameras and how that was becoming not just the campaign, but the presidency itself. Of course, she had no use for Ronald Reagan, and everything she writes about him is very damning. But a lot of it was because she saw him as the embodiment of Hollywood logic entering the political sphere and felt like these are two separate things and they need to not be going together.So all of that appeared to me as I was reading. You know, once you see it, you can't unsee it. It just made sense for me to write about it. On top of it, she was still alive when I was writing the proposal and shopping it around. So she actually died two months after we sold the book to my publisher. It meant I was extra grateful for this angle because I knew there'd be a lot more books on her, but I wanted to come at it from an angle that I hadn't seen before. So many people have written about her in Hollywood before, but not quite through this lens.Yeah. What were some things that you discovered in the course of your research? Obviously, she's such an interesting figure, but she's also lived so very publicly that I'm just super interested to find out what are some of the things that you learned? It can be about her, but it can also be the Hollywood system as a whole.Yeah. I mean, I didn't interview her for obvious reasons.Understandable, entirely understandable.Pretty much everyone in her life also is gone with the exception really of Griffin Dunn, who is her nephew, John's nephew, the actor. But other than that, it felt like I needed to look at it through a critical lens. So it meant examining a lot of texts. A lot of Didion's magazine work (which was a huge part of her life) is published in the books that people read like Slouching Towards Bethlehem and The White Album and all the other books. What was interesting to me was discovering (I mean, not “discovering” because other people have read it) that there is some work that's not published and it's mostly her criticism.Most of that criticism was published in the late '50s and the early '60s when she was living in New York City, working at Vogue and trying to make it in the literary scene that was New York at that time, which was a very unique place. I mean, she was writing criticism and essays for both, you know, like National Review and The Nation at the same time, which was just hard to conceive of today. It was something you'd do back then. Yeah, wild stuff.A lot of that criticism was never collected into books. The most interesting is that she'd been working at Vogue for a long time in various positions, but she wound up getting added to the film critic column at Vogue in, '62, I want to say, although I might have that date slightly off. She basically alternated weeks with another critic for a few years, writing that until she started writing in movies proper. It's never a great idea to be a critic and a screenwriter at the same time.Her criticism is fascinating. So briefly, for instance, she shared that column with Pauline Kael. Pauline Kael became well known after she wrote about Bonnie and Clyde. This was prior to that. This is several years prior to that. They also hated each other for a long time afterward, which is funny, because, in some ways, their style is very different but their persona is actually very similar. So I wonder about that.But in any case, even when she wasn't sharing the column with Pauline Kael, it was a literal column in a magazine. So it's like one column of text, she can say barely anything. She was always a bit of a contrarian, but she was actively not interested in the things that were occupying New York critics at the time. Things like the Auteur Theory, what was happening in France, the downtown scene and the Shirley Clark's of the world. She had no use for it. At some point, she accuses Billy Wilder of having really no sense of humor, which is very funny.When you read her criticism, you see a person who is very invested in a classical notion of Hollywood as a place that shows us fantasies that we can indulge in for a while. She talks in her very first column about how she doesn't really need movies to be masterpieces, she just wants them to have moments. When she says moments, she means big swelling things that happen in a movie that make her feel things.It's so opposite, I think, to most people's view of Didion. Most people associate her with this snobbish elitism or something, which I don't think is untrue when we're talking about literature. But for her, the movies were like entertainment, and entering that business was a choice to enter that world. She wasn't attempting to elevate the discourse or something.I just think that's fascinating. She also has some great insights there. But as a film critic, I find myself disagreeing with most of her reviews. But I think that doesn't matter. It was more interesting to see how she conceived of the movies. There is a moment later on, in another piece that I don't think has been republished anywhere from the New York Review of Books, where she writes about the movies of Woody Allen. She hates them. It's right at the point where he's making like Manhattan and Annie Hall, like the good stuff. She just has no use for them. It's one of the funniest pieces. I won't spoil the ending because it's hilarious, and it's in the book.That writing was of huge interest to me and hasn't been republished in books. I was very grateful to get access to it, in part because it is in the archives — the electronic archives of the New York Public Library. But at the time, the library was closed. So I had to call the library and have a librarian get on Zoom with me for like an hour and a half to figure out how I could get in the proverbial back door of the library to get access while the library wasn't open.That's magnificent. That's such a cool way to go to the archives because some stuff just hasn't been published. If it wasn't digitized, then it's not digitized. That's incredible.Yeah, it's there, but you can barely print them off because they're in PDFs. They're like scanned images that are super high res, so the printer just dies when you try to print them. It's all very fascinating. I hope it gets republished at some point because I think there's enough interest in her work that it's fascinating to see this other aspect of her taste and her persona.It's really interesting that she seems to have wanted to meet the medium where it is, right? She wasn't trying to literary-up Hollywood. I mean, LA can be a bit of a friction. It's not exactly a literary town in the way that some East Coast metropolises can be. It is interesting that she was enamored by the movies. Do you want to speak about what things were like for her when she moved out?Yeah, it is funny because, at the same time, the first two movies that they wrote and produced are The Panic in Needle Park, which is probably the most new Hollywood movie you can imagine. It's about addicts at Needle Park, which is actually right where the 72nd Street subway stop is on the Upper West Side. If people have been there, it's hard to imagine. But that was apparently where they all sat around, and there were a lot of needles. It's apparently the first movie supposedly where someone shoots up live on camera.So it was the '70s. That's amazing.Yes, and it launched Al Pacino's film career! Yeah, it's wild. You watch it and you're just like, “How is this coming from the woman who's about all this arty farty stuff in the movies.” And Play It As It Lays has a very similar, almost avant-garde vibe to it. It's very, very interesting. You see it later on in the work that they made.A key thing to remember about them (and something I didn't realize before I started researching the book)was that Didion and Dunn were novelists who worked in journalism because everybody did. They wrote movies, according to them (you can only go off of what they said. A lot of it is John writing these jaunty articles. He's a very funny writer) because “we had tuition and a mortgage. This is how you pay for it.”This comes up later on, they needed to keep their WGA insurance because John had heart trouble. The best way to have health insurance was to remain in the Writers Guild. Remaining in the Writers Guild means you had to have a certain amount of work produced through union means. They were big union supporters. For them this was not, this was very strictly not an auteurist undertaking. This was not like, “Oh, I'm gonna go write these amazing screenplays that give my concept of the world to the audience.” It's not like Bonnie and Clyding going on here. It's very like, “We wrote these based on some stories that we thought would be cool.”I like that a lot. Like the idea that A Star is Born was like a pot boiler. That's really delightful.Completely. It was totally taken away from them by Streisand and John Peters at some point. But they were like, “Yeah, I mean, you know, it happens. We still got paid.”Yeah, if it can happen to Superman, it can happen to you.It happens to everybody, you know, don't get too precious about it. The important thing is did your novel come out and was it supported by its publisher?So just tracing some of their arcs in Hollywood. Obviously, Didion's one of the most influential writers of her generation, there's a very rich literary tradition. Where do we see her footprint, her imprint in Hollywood? What are some of the ways that we can see her register in Hollywood, or reverberate outside of it?In the business itself, I don't know that she was influential directly. What we see is on the outside of it. So a lot of people were friends. She was like a famous hostess, famous hostess. The New York Public Library archives are set to open at the end of March, of Didion and Dunn's work, which was like completely incidental to my publication date. I just got lucky. There's a bunch of screenplays in there that they worked on that weren't produced. There's also her cookbooks, and I'm very excited to go through those and see that. So you might meet somebody there.Her account of what the vibe was when the Manson murders occurred, which is published in her essay The White Album, is still the one people talk about, even though there are a lot of different ways to come at it. That's how we think about the Manson murders: through her lens. Later on, when she's not writing directly about Hollywood anymore (and not really writing in Hollywood as much) but instead is writing about the headlines, about news events, about sensationalism in the news, she becomes a great media critic. We start to see her taking the things that she learned (having been around Hollywood people, having been on movie sets, having seen how the sausage is made) and she starts writing about politics. In that age, it is Hollywood's logic that you perform for the TV. We have the debates suddenly becoming televised, the conventions becoming televised, we start to see candidates who seem specifically groomed to win because they look good on TV. They're starting to win and rule the day.She writes about Newt Gingrich. Of course, Gingrich was the first politician to figure out how to harness C-SPAN to his own ends — the fact that there were TV cameras on the congressional floor. So she's writing about all of this stuff at a time when you can see other people writing about it. I mean, Neil Postman famously writes about it. But the way Didion does it is always very pegged to reviewing somebody's book, or she's thinking about a particular event, or she's been on the campaign plane or something like that. Like she's been on the inside, but with an outsider's eye.That also crops up in, for instance, her essays. “Sentimental Journeys” is one of her most famous ones. That one's about the case of the Central Park Five, and the jogger who was murdered. Of course, now, we're many decades out from that, and the convictions were vacated. We know about coerced confessions. Also Donald Trump arrives in the middle of that whole thing.But she's actually not interested in the guilt or innocence question, because a lot of people were writing about that. She's interested in how the city of New York and the nation perform themselves for themselves, seeing themselves through the long lens of a movie and telling themselves stories about themselves. You see this over and over in her writing, no matter what she's writing about. I think once she moved away from writing about the business so much, she became very interested in how Hollywood logic had taken over American public life writ large.That's fascinating. Like, again, she spends time in the industry, then basically she can only see it through that lens. Of course, Michael Dukakis in a tank is trying to be a set piece, of course in front of the Berlin Wall, you're finally doing set decoration rather than doing it outside of a brick wall somewhere. You mentioned the New York thing in Performing New York. I have lived in the city for over a decade now. The dumbest thing is when the mayor gets to wear the silly jacket whenever there's a snowstorm that says “Mr. Mayor.” It's all an act in so many ways. I guess that political choreography had to come from somewhere, and it seems like she was documenting a lot of that initial rise.Yeah, I think she really saw it. The question I would ask her, if I could, is how cognizant she was that she kept doing that. As someone who's written for a long time, you don't always recognize that you have the one thing you write about all the time. Other people then bring it up to you and you're like, “Oh, I guess you're right.” Even when you move into her grief memoir phase, which is how I think about the last few original works that she published, she uses movie logic constantly in those.I mean, The Year of Magical Thinking is a cyclical book, she goes over the same events over and over. But if you actually look at the language she's using, she talks about running the tape back, she talks about the edit, she talks about all these things as if she's running her own life through how a movie would tell a story. Maybe she knew very deliberately. She's not a person who does things just haphazardly, but it has the feeling of being so baked into her psyche at this point that she would never even think of trying to escape it.Fascinating.Yeah, that idea that you don't know what you are potentially doing, I've thought about that. I don't know what mine is. But either way. It's such a cool way to look at it. On a certain level, she pretty much succeeded at that, though, right? I think that when people think about Joan Didion, they think about a life that freshens up a movie, right? Like, it workedVery much, yeah. I'm gonna be really curious to see what happens over the next 10 years or so. I've been thinking about figures like Sylvia Plath or women with larger-than-life iconography and reputation and how there's a constant need to relook at their legacies and reinvent and rethink and reimagine them. There's a lot in the life of Didion that I think remains to be explored. I'm really curious to see where people go with it, especially with the opening of these archives and new personal information making its way into the world.Yeah, even just your ability to break some of those stories that have been locked away in archives out sounds like a really exciting addition to the scholarship. Just backing out a little bit, we live in a moment in which the relationship between pop culture and political life is fairly directly intertwined. Setting aside the steel-plated elephant in the room, you and I are friendly because we bonded over this idea that movies really are consequential. Coming out of this book and coming out of reporting on it, what are some of the relevances for today in particular?Yeah, I mean, a lot more than I thought, I guess, five years ago. I started work on the book at the end of Trump One, and it's coming out at the beginning of Trump Two, and there was this period in the middle of a slightly different vibe. But even then I watch TikTok or whatever. You see people talk about “main character energy” or the “vibe shift” or all of romanticizing your life. I would have loved to read a Didion essay on the way that young people sort of view themselves through the logic of the screens they have lived on and the way that has shaped America for a long time.I should confirm this, I don't think she wrote about Obama, or if she did, it was only a little bit. So her political writing ends in George W. Bush's era. I think there's one piece on Obama, and then she's writing about other things. It's just interesting to think about how her ideas of what has happened to political culture in America have seeped into the present day.I think the Hollywood logic, the cinematic logic has given way to reality TV logic. That's very much the logic of the Trump world, right? Still performing for cameras, but the cameras have shifted. The way that we want things from the cameras has shifted, too. Reality TV is a lot about creating moments of drama where they may or may not actually exist and bombarding you with them. I think that's a lot of what we see and what we feel now. I have to imagine she would think about it that way.There is one interesting essay that I feel has only recently been talked about. It's at the beginning of my book, too. It was in a documentary, and Gia Tolentino wrote about it recently. It's this essay she wrote in 2000 about Martha Stewart and about Martha Stewart's website. It feels like the 2000s was like, “What is this website thing? Why are people so into it?” But really, it's an essay about parasocial relationships that people develop (with women in particular) who they invent stories around and how those stories correspond to greater American archetypes. It's a really interesting essay, not least because I think it's an essay also about people's parasocial relationships with Joan Didion.So the rise of her celebrity in the 21st century, where people know who she is and carry around a tote bag, but don't really know what they're getting themselves into is very interesting to me. I think it is also something she thought about quite a bit, while also consciously courting it.Yeah, I mean, that makes a ton of sense. For someone who was so adept at using cinematic language to describe her own life with every living being having a camera directly next to them at all times. It seems like we are very much living in a world that she had at least put a lot of thought into, even if the technology wasn't around for her to specifically address it.Yes, completely.On that note, where can folks find the book? Where can folks find you? What's the elevator pitch for why they ought to check this out? Joan Didion superfan or just rather novice?Exactly! I think this book is not just for the fans, let me put it that way. Certainly, I think anyone who considers themselves a Didion fan will have a lot to enjoy here. The stuff you didn't know, hadn't read or just a new way to think through her cultural impact. But also, this is really a book that's as much for people who are just interested in thinking about the world we live in today a little critically. It's certainly a biography of American political culture as much as it is of Didion. There's a great deal of Hollywood history in there as well. Thinking about that sweep of the American century and change is what the book is doing. It's very, very, very informed by what I do in my day job as a movie critic at The New York Times. Thinking about what movies mean, what do they tell us about ourselves? I think this is what this book does. I have been told it's very fun to read. So I'm happy about that. It's not ponderous at all, which is good. It's also not that long.It comes out March 11th from Live Right, which is a Norton imprint. There will be an audiobook at the end of May that I am reading, which I'm excited about. And I'll be on tour for a large amount of March on the East Coast. Then in California, there's a virtual date, and there's a good chance I'll be popping up elsewhere all year, too. Those updates will be on my social feeds, which are all @alissawilkinson on whatever platform except X, which is fine because I don't really post there anymore.Alyssa, thank you so much for coming on.Thank you so much.Edited by Crystal Wang.If you have anything you'd like to see in this Sunday special, shoot me an email. Comment below! Thanks for reading, and thanks so much for supporting Numlock.Thank you so much for becoming a paid subscriber! Send links to me on Twitter at @WaltHickey or email me with numbers, tips or feedback at walt@numlock.news. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.numlock.com/subscribe

In this engaging episode of the HODGEPOD Rob Fredette sits down with Dr. Ken Peters, a distinguished author and biotechnology expert. Join them as they delve into Dr. Peters' fascinating career, which spans across continents and industries. Discover how his experiences in economics, biotechnology, and international business have influenced his captivating thriller novels. Dr. Peters shares anecdotes from his extensive travels, recalling pivotal moments such as the fall of the Berlin Wall and his encounter with political figures like Nelson Mandela. With a unique blend of memoir and fiction, he brings to life the intricate worlds of his books, including his latest work, "The Seed Sanctuary." Tune in for an intriguing mix of history, espionage, and literary inspiration. HODGEPOD can heard on APPLE, SPOTIFY, IHEART, AUDACY AND THE PODBEAN APP. RECORDED MARCH 6, 2025 Email hodgepodallin@yahoo.com Please give a listen, follow and share. Thank you for listening.

In this engaging episode of the HODGEPOD Rob Fredette sits down with Dr. Ken Peters, a distinguished author and biotechnology expert. Join them as they delve into Dr. Peters' fascinating career, which spans across continents and industries. Discover how his experiences in economics, biotechnology, and international business have influenced his captivating thriller novels. Dr. Peters shares anecdotes from his extensive travels, recalling pivotal moments such as the fall of the Berlin Wall and his encounter with political figures like Nelson Mandela. With a unique blend of memoir and fiction, he brings to life the intricate worlds of his books, including his latest work, "The Seed Sanctuary." Tune in for an intriguing mix of history, espionage, and literary inspiration. HODGEPOD can heard on APPLE, SPOTIFY, IHEART, AUDACY AND THE PODBEAN APP. RECORDED MARCH 6, 2025 Email hodgepodallin@yahoo.com Please give a listen, follow and share. Thank you for listening.

Just thirty years ago, socialism seemed utterly discredited. An economic, moral, and political failure, socialism had rightly been thrown on the ash heap of history after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Unfortunately, bad ideas never truly go away—and socialism has come back with a vengeance. Join us to hear a powerful warning from Iain Murray on the resurgence of socialism that could rob us of our freedom and prosperity.Become a Parshall Partner: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/inthemarket/partnersSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is Part 2! For Part 1, check the feed!This week we're not building walls or tearing them down, in fact, we're simply talking about them. But what a collection of walls we have: the Great Wall of China, Hadrian's Wall and the Berlin Wall.And elsewhere, isn't schooling far more complicated these days?! No one being educated in a Victorian Workhouse ever had to worry about an outfit for world book day - so did that make it easier? (Possibly not). But if you have anything unusual about the area you grew up in then please email: hello@ohwhatatime.comIf you fancy a bunch of OWAT content you've never heard before, why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER?Up for grabs is:- two bonus episodes every month!- ad-free listening- episodes a week ahead of everyone else- And much moreSubscriptions are available via AnotherSlice and Wondery +. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.comYou can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom xSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The most important moment for Europe since the Berlin Wall came down Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/the-other-hand-with-jim.power-and-chris.johns. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What happens when music becomes so deeply personal that it reshapes the course of your life? Kali Malone joins me to explore this through the lens of The Sacrificial Code, the album that transformed her from an underground experimentalist into one of contemporary composition's most vital voices.Malone's approach to the organ exists in a liminal space—both ancient and futuristic. She explains how recording on a 16th-century instrument for the album's reissue created radically new interpretations despite the composition remaining unchanged: “The music is strictly composed, but the registration and delivery change its identity so much.” You could read it as a poetic parallel to human evolution—our core essence intact, yet constantly shifting.We dive into the tension between intuition and discipline, a defining force in her work. In an era of relentless digital noise, Malone advocates for silence as a creative act: “Remove all the layers and all the noise, and you'll slowly start to hear what you feel, what you want, what you believe in.” It's a philosophy that resonates far beyond music, speaking to anyone searching for artistic clarity.From Colorado's DIY punk scenes to Stockholm's experimental avant-garde, Malone's journey reveals the role of artistic communities in shaping sound. Her deep collaborations with Caterina Barbieri and Maria W Horn (both previous guests on Lost and Sound) highlight how musical friendships create “secret languages” that transcend time, breaking down artificial boundaries between traditions.And when asked what she'd tell her younger self? Without hesitation: “You're not crazy.” A simple but powerful affirmation for anyone carving their own path—where instinct often feels irrational but, in the end, is the most honest route forward.If you're enjoying Lost and Sound, please do subscribe and leave a rating or review on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you listen. It really helps to spread the word and support Lost and Sound.Kali Malone on InstagramThe Sacrificial Code pre-order on BandcampFollow me on Instagram at PaulhanfordLost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-TechnicaMy BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.My book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

This week we're not building walls or tearing them down, in fact, we're simply talking about them. But what a collection of walls we have: the Great Wall of China, Hadrian's Wall and the Berlin Wall.And elsewhere, isn't schooling far more complicated these days?! No one being educated in a Victorian Workhouse ever had to worry about an outfit for world book day - so did that make it easier? (Possibly not). But if you have anything unusual about the area you grew up in then please email: hello@ohwhatatime.comIf you fancy a bunch of OWAT content you've never heard before, why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER?Up for grabs is:- two bonus episodes every month!- ad-free listening- episodes a week ahead of everyone else- And much moreSubscriptions are available via AnotherSlice and Wondery +. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.comYou can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom xSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In Messengers Part 5, Pastor Robey Barnes dives into Acts 10, revealing how God's plan for the gospel breaks down walls of division. Just as the fall of the Berlin Wall united families, Peter's vision challenged deeply held traditions, inviting believers to embrace inclusion and reconciliation. Discover how God's love knows no boundaries and how we are called to tear down walls in our lives and communities. Don't miss this powerful message on unity and the power of the gospel!

How Far Will You Speak Up? Integrity is more than a virtue; it is the foundation of our identity. It represents the alignment of our actions, values, and commitments into a coherent whole, forming the essence of who we are. To abandon these commitments is to lose touch with the very core of our being. History is full of moments when individuals chose not to stay silent, even when the odds seemed insurmountable. Václav Havel, a playwright turned dissident and later president, is one such figure. But his story isn't about grand gestures or dramatic heroics. It's about the quiet, steady courage of living in alignment with one's values, even when doing so carried immense personal risk. Havel didn't set out to lead a revolution. He simply refused to accept lies as truth or to conform to a system that demanded silence. Through his plays, essays, and actions, he challenged the oppressive structures around him, not with force, but with integrity. And though his path led to imprisonment and hardship, it also helped spark a peaceful revolution that changed history. Not everyone is called to, or capable of, Havel's level of sacrifice. But his life invites us to reflect: where could our own integrity lead us? What courage might it give us in moments that matter? Integrity doesn't always demand dramatic acts of defiance; sometimes it's found in the quiet choices we make every day, choices that ripple outward in ways we may never fully see. Integrity is how we stay true to ourselves every day, not just in big moments. Our values shape who we are, defining our identity through consistent choices and actions. Here's a powerful inspiration extracted from my latest book (beautifully translated by Carol Volk): When the Berlin Wall fell, "poets, philosophers, and singers became members of Parliament, government ministers or even presidents." Those who refused to "be reasonable" and "went on thinking about how to make the world a better place" rewrote history. Based on his successful experience, despite what initially seemed like impossible odds, Havel has a message of encouragement to share that is all the more convincing as it is anchored not in "reasonable" or even "idealistic" beliefs but in reality."Many people said it couldn't be done, and that I had gone mad," he recalls. "And look: it can be done, and we are all sitting here together." Hope is not unreasonable in the end but "the victory of reason over the political stereotypes to which inertia tries to fetter us." That is why he concludes that "it is never pointless to think about alternatives that may at the moment seem improbable, impossible, or simply fantastic. [...] Rather it appears that there are moments in history when dreaming on principle may in fact come in handy."

Mike Frohlich on THC beverages, signs of spring in ND, winter food events, and a story from The Tell of witnessing history during the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Despite your bad memories from the Block Size war, you should support Roger Ver's campaign for clemency – or at least this is what Layer Two Labs CEO Paul Sztorc thinks you should do. In this episode, we discuss why Roger deserves to stay free. Time stamps: Introducing Paul Sztorc (00:00:54) The host welcomes listeners and introduces guest Paul Sztorc, discussing Roger Ver's situation. Paul's Connection with Roger Ver (00:01:42) Paul shares his connection to Roger Ver and his experiences in the Bitcoin community. Roger Ver's Contributions (00:02:54) Discussion on Roger's significant investments and efforts in early Bitcoin companies. Challenges at Mt. Gox (00:03:59) Paul recounts Roger's volunteer work during the Mt. Gox crisis, highlighting his dedication. Bitcoin's Early Days (00:05:05) Reflections on Bitcoin's obscurity before mainstream recognition, including the Financial Times article. The Evolution of Bitcoin Conferences (00:06:18) Paul reminisces about early Bitcoin conferences and their small scale compared to today. Tax Evasion Claims and Bitcoin's Value (00:08:23) Discussion on misconceptions about Bitcoin's value and Roger's tax situation during its early days. Roger's Generosity and Alliances (00:10:34) Highlighting Roger's contributions to various libertarian causes and his personal sacrifices. The Block Size War (00:11:39) Introduction to the block size debate and its impact on Roger's reputation in the Bitcoin community. Michael Saylor's Skepticism (00:12:29) The host references a tweet from Michael Saylor expressing doubts about Bitcoin in 2013. Roger's Early Bitcoin Investments (00:13:13) Paul shares a story about Roger's commitment to Bitcoin, selling his Lamborghini for more BTC. Roger's Influence and Marketing (00:14:26) Discussion on Roger's positive energy and efforts to promote Bitcoin to the public. The Role of BitPay (00:15:38) Explaining how BitPay helped businesses accept Bitcoin, making it more accessible. Roger's Vision for Bitcoin (00:18:48) Paul discusses Roger's motivations during the block size war and his vision for Bitcoin's future. Aftermath of the Block Size War (00:20:06) Reflections on the complacency of the Bitcoin community post-war and the resulting divisions. Playing the Villain (00:20:45) The host introduces a playful debate format, questioning Roger's promotion of Bitcoin Cash. The Scammer Accusation (00:21:18) Discussion about accusations against Roger Ver being labeled a scammer due to perceived financial losses. The Block Size Debate (00:21:35) Debate on the implications of hard forks and naming conventions in the context of Bitcoin's block size. Satoshi's Conflicted Views (00:22:22) Exploration of Satoshi Nakamoto's ambiguous stance on block sizes and their impact on Bitcoin. Mt. Gox Video Controversy (00:24:23) Reference to Roger Ver's video on Mount Gox and its perceived implications for Bitcoin's credibility. Self-Custody Awareness (00:25:03) Discussion on the understanding of self-custody in Bitcoin during the early days compared to now. Roger's Involvement with Mt. Gox (00:26:57) Analysis of Roger Ver's proactive attempts to assist Mount Gox during its crisis. Historical Context of Criticism (00:29:06) Reflection on how hindsight alters perceptions of Roger's actions during the Mt. Gox incident. Debate Dynamics (00:31:00) Insights into Roger Ver's debate style and the challenges faced by opponents like Jimmy Song. Roger's Support of Craig Wright (00:36:22) Discussion on Roger Ver's past support for Craig Wright and subsequent regrets regarding that decision. Legal Battles with Craig Wright (00:40:14) Mention of Roger Ver's successful lawsuit against Craig Wright as a potential redemption. Romance Scams and Reporting (00:40:53) Discussion on how victims of romance scams often feel ashamed and do not report incidents. Karmic Justice and Roger Ver (00:44:16) Exploration of public anger towards Roger Ver and perceptions of justice regarding his past actions. Chaos Climbers in the Bitcoin Community (00:45:03) Analysis of individuals rising in influence by criticizing opposing factions during the block size war. Debate Analysis: Samson vs. Roger (00:46:02) Reflection on the 2018 debate between Samson and Roger, highlighting performance over substance. Clipping and Public Perception (00:48:11) Discussion on how clipped statements can distort public perception and impact reputations. Economic Growth and Human Welfare (00:49:07) The importance of economic growth for human welfare and the misunderstanding surrounding its implications. Performativity in Bitcoin Discourse (00:50:26) Critique of the performative outrage in Bitcoin discussions and its effects on community dynamics. Debate Takeaways and Misrepresentation (00:51:08) Observations on how the narrative from the debate overshadowed substantive discussions about Bitcoin. Scaling Solutions: Lightning vs. Bitcoin Cash (00:52:13) Comparison of the Lightning Network and Bitcoin Cash as competing solutions to Bitcoin's scaling issues. Hard Forks and Community Splits (00:54:43) Discussion on the implications of hard forks on community cohesion and the future of Bitcoin. Victimless Crimes in Forks (00:57:54) Reflection on the benefits of Bitcoin forks and the perception of them as victimless crimes. Toxic Bitcoin Maximalism (00:58:41) Analysis of how toxic maximalism emerged as a reaction to the proliferation of altcoins and forks. Conception of Money and Community (00:59:03) Discussion on the importance of a unified currency and the challenges posed by multiple forks. Ethereum as the Opposition (01:00:28) Exploration of Ethereum's role as a competing force against Bitcoin and its community dynamics. Network Effects and Complacency (01:00:52) Discussion on how dominant networks can lead to complacency and hinder competition in the crypto space. Block Size War and Ethereum's Rise (01:01:40) Exploration of Ethereum's growth during the block size debate and its impact on the crypto landscape. Scaling Challenges in Bitcoin (01:02:52) Overview of scaling solutions and the failures that led to external developments outside Bitcoin. Layer Two Labs Promotion (01:04:00) Introduction of Layer Two Labs and its mission to scale Bitcoin through sidechains. Drive Chains vs. Tree Chains (01:05:15) Comparison of Drive Chains and Tree Chains, highlighting conceptual differences and critiques. Bitcoin.com News Collaboration (01:08:40) Discussion about Bitcoin.com News and its valuable coverage of cryptocurrency topics. Critique of Current Thought Leaders (01:09:46) Speaker expresses disappointment in the insights provided by prominent figures in the crypto community. Exit Tax Controversy (01:11:20) Debate on the legitimacy and implications of the U.S. exit tax in relation to Roger Ver. Berlin Wall Explanation (01:21:19) Description of the Berlin Wall's historical significance and its role in the Cold War. The Berlin Wall Discussion (01:23:06) The speakers discuss the historical significance and implications of the Berlin Wall and its impact on families. Roger Ver's Moral Responsibility (01:27:02) A conversation about Roger Ver's rejection of the social contract based on his moral beliefs regarding taxation. Exit Tax Controversy (01:27:30) Debate on the fairness of the exit tax and its implications for individuals like Roger Ver. Roger Ver's Legal Representation (01:28:09) Discussion on Roger Ver's legal situation and the role of his law firm in his tax issues. Greg Maxwell's Threats (01:29:33) Mention of Greg Maxwell's threats towards Roger Ver and the potential consequences of such actions. Birthday Surprise (01:30:18) A light-hearted moment as the host celebrates a birthday surprise during the podcast. Tax Law Complications (01:32:07) The complexity of tax law and its implications for Roger Ver's financial situation are explored. Jameson Lopp's Tweet (01:35:14) Analysis of a tweet discussing Roger Ver's tax issues and the IRS's claims against him. CoinFlex Bankruptcy Discussion (01:37:01) Exploration of Roger Ver's financial troubles related to CoinFlex and the implications of his legal battles. Roger's Video Explanation (01:39:14) Discussion about a video Roger Ver released explaining his situation with CoinFlex and legal constraints. Legal Challenges and Persecution (01:42:43) Reflections on Roger Ver's past legal challenges and the perception of him as a criminal in the Bitcoin community. Vindictiveness of the Blocksize War (01:43:46) Commentary on the negative attitudes and tactics used by some during the blocksize debate against Roger Ver. Discussion on Roger Ver's Bitcoin Contributions (01:44:56) We discuss Roger Ver's early contributions to Bitcoin and the controversies surrounding him. Twitter Controversies and Public Perception (01:46:00) The conversation touches on Twitter dynamics and public perceptions of Roger Ver's financial status. Taxation and IRS Issues (01:49:02) Concerns are raised about the lack of clarity from the IRS regarding tax obligations for Roger Ver. Critique of Tax System (01:50:05) A critique of the U.S. tax system and the complexities faced by taxpayers is presented. Roger Ver's Future and Clemency (01:52:39) Discussion on Roger Ver's potential return to the U.S. and the implications of his clemency. Plea Deals and Coercion in Legal System (02:01:29) The speakers examine the coercive nature of plea deals in the U.S. legal system. Justice System Inequities (02:03:59) A reflection on the inequities in the justice system and the challenges of sentencing. Introduction to Alexander Vinnik (02:05:07) Discussion about Vinnik's arrest and his connection to the Mount Gox hack. Comparison with Roger Ver (02:06:18) Contrasting Vinnik's criminal actions with the legal troubles faced by Roger Ver. Plea Deals and Legal System Issues (02:06:39) Exploring the coercive nature of plea deals in the justice system. Vinnik's Sentencing and Release (02:08:39) Details about Vinnik's sentencing and the circumstances of his release. Negotiations for Prisoner Exchange (02:09:50) Discussion about the political implications of Vinnik's negotiation for freedom. Details on the Trade (02:10:46) Information about the American teacher traded for Vinnik and her situation. Question from the Audience (02:12:54) Transition to audience questions regarding Bitcoin's scalability and potential forks. The Exodus Question (02:13:02) Audience inquiry about the potential migration to alternative cryptocurrencies. Forking Bitcoin Discussion (02:15:17) Analysis of the challenges and implications of forking Bitcoin. Cultural Apathy in Bitcoin Community (02:20:15) Reflection on the disconnection between miners and Bitcoin's philosophical discussions. Future of Bitcoin and Sidechains (02:22:33) Speculation on Bitcoin's ability to scale and the role of sidechains in its future. Discussion on Bitcoin Market Dynamics (02:27:41) Exploration of Bitcoin's market behavior and the implications of pricing strategies in a competitive landscape. Contention in Bitcoin Governance (02:28:31) Debate on the contentious nature of Bitcoin governance and the challenges of achieving consensus within the community. Concerns Over Bitcoin's Cultural Issues (02:30:31) Discussion on potential cultural problems within Bitcoin and the implications for its future success. Measuring Decentralization (02:31:58) Introduction to the concept of decentralization and its measurement within cryptocurrency contexts. Critique of Mining Centralization (02:32:08) Examination of the complexities and contradictions in defining mining centralization in Bitcoin. Transparency and Decentralization (02:34:03) Discussion on the importance of transparency and the peer-to-peer nature of Bitcoin versus traditional systems. State Rejection of Bitcoin Reserves (02:40:55) Insights into states rejecting Bitcoin reserve bills due to volatility concerns, reflecting on societal attitudes toward Bitcoin. Bitcoin's Role in Black Market Transactions (02:44:27) Analysis of Bitcoin's potential as a payment system in both legal and illegal markets, emphasizing its dual utility. Roleplay Request on BTC vs BCH (02:48:10) Engagement in a roleplay scenario discussing the market's preference for BTC over BCH and its implications. Orthodox Plan for Scaling (02:49:21) Discussion on the orthodox plan for Bitcoin scaling and competition with Ethereum and other altcoins. Competition and Market Share (02:50:39) Analysis of market competition and the declining market share of Bitcoin compared to Ethereum and Monero. Libertarian Party Dynamics (02:53:11) Exploration of the fragmentation within the Libertarian Party and its implications for political strategy. Libertarian Vote in Elections (02:54:52) Investigation into the percentage of votes received by the Libertarian Party in recent elections. Trump's Influence on Libertarians (02:56:40) Discussion on Trump's appeal to Libertarians and its impact on voting patterns. Free Ross Campaign Strategy (02:59:17) Strategy for political advocacy, focusing on the Free Ross campaign and leveraging support for major candidates. Comparing Cryptocurrency Market Positions (03:01:56) Examination of the market positions of various cryptocurrencies and their relative values. Bitcoin Cash Capabilities (03:02:50) Discussion on the capabilities of Bitcoin Cash and its potential for innovation in the crypto space. Historical Context of Bitcoin Development (03:04:12) Reflection on Bitcoin's development history and the missed opportunities for innovation. Language and Technological Change (03:06:27) Analogy between language evolution and cryptocurrency dominance, emphasizing technological impacts. Early Bitcoin Innovations (03:09:39) Revisiting early innovations in Bitcoin and their relevance to today's cryptocurrency landscape. Ossification and Innovation in Blockchain (03:11:36) Discussion on the ossification of blockchain and the need for innovation in Layer 2 solutions. Programming Languages Debate (03:12:43) Comparison of programming languages used in Bitcoin and Ethereum, referencing Steve Jobs' philosophy. Bitcoin's Imperfections (03:14:15) Discussion on Bitcoin's evolution and the ongoing need for improvements despite claims of perfection. Vulnerabilities in Bitcoin (03:15:21) Concerns over the delayed disclosure of vulnerabilities in Bitcoin's code and its implications. Power Dynamics in Bitcoin Development (03:16:41) Analysis of the influence of Bitcoin Core on development and the challenges faced by forks. John Dillon's Controversial Emails (03:18:00) Exploration of accusations against John Dillon and the implications for Bitcoin's governance. Coinjoin Bounty Scandal (03:20:19) Revelation of John Dillon's involvement with a bounty fund and its impact on project funding. The Role of Competition in Development (03:22:14) Importance of competition among software in driving innovation and user satisfaction. Roger Ver's Legal Troubles (03:25:28) Discussion about the potential consequences for those prosecuting Roger Ver and the nature of his accusations. Mail Fraud Charges Against Roger Ver (03:27:12) Overview of the legal accusations against Roger Ver, particularly concerning mail fraud. Hypothetical Perspective on Roger Ver (03:28:44) A thought experiment about how perceptions of Roger Ver would change based on exposure to propaganda. Thoughts on Taxation and Consent (03:32:32) Discussion on the ethics of taxation and Roger Ver's views on consent in financial matters. Tax Dollars and Freedom (03:33:53) Discussion on how American tax dollars fund IRS enforcement and the implications for those wanting to leave the country. Exit Tax Debate (03:35:06) Debate on the fairness of an exit tax and its implications for American citizens leaving the country. Roger Ver's Legal Battle (03:36:04) Analysis of Roger Ver's resources and challenges in his ongoing legal issues with tax authorities. Future Tax Laws and Risks (03:36:30) Concerns about potential future tax laws and their impact on individuals' financial situations. Legal Precedents and Justice (03:37:53) Discussion on how Roger Ver's case may set precedents for others facing similar legal challenges. Political Influence on Justice (03:38:58) Exploration of the arbitrary nature of legal sentences and political influences on the justice system. Dignity in Departure (03:39:29) Reflections on the emotional toll of leaving the U.S. while maintaining dignity and facing potential repercussions. Logistics of a Pardon (03:40:30) Speculation on the political motivations behind a potential pardon for Roger Ver. Tax Law Evolution (03:41:53) Discussion on how tax laws have changed over time, affecting the classification of Bitcoin. Legal Advice and Accountability (03:43:14) Questioning the responsibilities of tax attorneys in guiding clients through complex legal issues. Closing Remarks and Thanks (03:44:15)

Tesfa Williams has been shaping the sound of UK underground music for over two decades. From his early days as Dread D in the Black Ops crew—helping define the sublow sound that fed into grime—to becoming a key figure in UK funky, his journey has always been about pushing bass culture forward.In this episode of Lost and Sound, Tesfa breaks down the evolution of UK club music, from jungle and garage to grime and beyond. We talk about his early days in West London's underground scene, the impact of pirate radio, and the industry challenges facing electronic artists today. He also shares the motivations behind his recent name change and how it connects to identity, culture, and artistic evolution.We also get deep into his latest album, Raves of Future Past—a record that bridges the past and future of UK bass with Tesfa's signature blend of raw energy and deep musicality. Plus, we explore the fragmentation of today's music landscape, the struggle for meaningful connection in a digital world, and the importance of community and reclaiming spaces for underground music.This is an essential listen for anyone passionate about UK club culture, sound system lineage, and the future of bass-driven music.If you're enjoying Lost and Sound, please do subscribe and leave a rating or review on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you listen. It really helps to spread the word and support Lost and Sound.Tesfa Williams on InstagramBeyond Today EP by Tesfa Williams is available now on Heist Recordings, Bandcamp.Follow me on Instagram at PaulhanfordLost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-TechnicaMy BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.My book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

In celebration of Women's History Month, Tech Simplified is honored to welcome Dagnija "Daggie" Lacis, a true trailblazer in the technology industry. From becoming one of the first female programmers in the U.S. to making history as the first female vice president at Unisys, Daggie's career has paved the way for generations of women in tech.Daggie shares her incredible journey—from breaking into the male-dominated IT world in the 1960s, to helping modernize Latvia's IT infrastructure after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Her memoir, The Wall Falls, A Woman Rises, releases on March 18, 2025, highlighting her pioneering achievements and personal resilience.

The choice to enlarge NATO was a justifiable response to the geopolitics of the 1990s. The problem was how it happened. Read by Helen Lloyd. Engelsberg Ideas is funded by the Axel and Margaret Ax:son Johnson Foundation for Public Benefit. Image: The 'You are leaving The American Sector' sign at the Checkpoint Charlie crossing point, Berlin Wall. Credit: Greg Balfour Evans / Alamy Stock Photo 

ENGLISH TRANSCRIPT BELOWEn este episodio, mi entrevistado es Cesar Pineda, sociólogo por la Universidad Autónoma Metropolitana. Obtuvo el Doctorado en Ciencias Políticas y Sociales y la Maestría en Estudios Latinoamericanos, ambos con mención honorífica en la UNAM. Realizó estancias posdoctorales en el Instituto de Investigaciones Económicas y en la Universidad Autónoma Metropolitana Azcapotzalco. Su investigación se centra en la contradicción del capital en la naturaleza, los movimientos sociales, la autonomía, el Estado y la comunidad. Investigador Nivel I en el Sistema Nacional de Investigadores, es profesor de asignatura en la Facultad de Ciencias Políticas y Sociales de la UNAM. A partir de 2024 es profesor-investigador de tiempo completo en el Instituto de Investigaciones José María Luis Mora. Es activista y acompañante en múltiples movimientos sociales.Notas del Episodio* La teoria y proceso del capital como metabolismo social* Biomercantilizacion* El problema de clase* Consecuencias escondidas del ecoturismo* Limites* Autoregulacion de las comunidades* Construyendo comunidad en la ciudad* Autonomia es la clave* Un mundo donde quepan muchos mundosTareaPagina profesional César Enrique Pineda (Ensayos, Libros, Proyectos)Twitter de CesarFacebook de CesarTranscripcion en EspanolChris: [00:00:00] Bienvenido César, al podcast El Fin del Turismo. Muchas gracias por estar dispuesto a hablar conmigo hoy. Me gustaría comenzar preguntándote, ¿Dónde te encuentros hoy y cómo se ve el mundo para ti allá? Cesar: Yo habito en Ciudad de México. Desde hace tiempo estoy haciendo una investigación, de nuevo, la continuidad del proceso del proceso del aeropuerto. Entonces estoy yendo muchas veces hacia Texcoco hacia el oriente de la ciudad, hacia el viejo lago de Texcoco, entonces tengo una doble mirada, la mirada urbana tradicional donde vivo y donde doy clases, que es en la UNAM y en el Mora, y por el otro lado, los pueblos, la comunidad y el el sistema lacustre al que estoy yendo cotidianamente.Chris: Y cómo va eso en Texcoco, si te puedo preguntar?Cesar: Va bien, creo que el frente de pueblos en defensa de la tierra ha tenido un nuevo triunfo. Y creo que es un nuevo avance, es un movimiento un poco anómalo en México porque [00:01:00] prácticamente ha ganado todas sus batallas, ha detenido los dos aeropuertos, ha liberado a sus presos y ahora ha logrado proteger el territorio.Y hoy se encuentran frente a un nuevo reto que es ser gobierno local, no? Entonces, en todas ha triunfado al final, a pesar de los costos enormes, pues que ha sufrido por la represión, por la persecución, por la precariedad también por la que viven muchos de sus miembros. Pero creo que van muy bien.Chris: Claro, wow, pues, qué bueno, qué hermosa resultado no? Cesar, parece, que mucho de tu trabajo, se basa en lo que podemos llamar la conversión de la naturaleza en capital, o al menos así es como los teóricos lo han descrito tradicionalmente. Me gustaría preguntar, ¿Cómo ves que eso sucede en el mundo del turismo, la conversión de naturaleza en capital para, para empezar, para darnos un [00:02:00] base de seguir? Cesar: Sí, bueno, hay que decir que lo que he tratado de también estudiar o teorizar. Cuando teorizamos hacemos generalizaciones. La teoría es una generalización para poder dialogar en contextos distintos, en casos distintos, sino cada caso por supuesto, es totalmente distinto que el otro por su historicidad, por su localidad, por su particularidad.Cuando teorizamos tratamos de hacer una generalización válida para muchos casos. Entonces, y eso nos permite a dialogar y pensar a muchos con una misma forma de nombrar y conceptualizar. Entonces, ese trabajo de conceptualización y teorización lo he hecho en la idea de cómo intentar comprender, se despliega efectivamente el capital territorialmente. Generalmente pensamos al capital solo como relaciones dinerarias, como inversiones y como ganancias, de hecho, compensamos el capital como, la [00:03:00] cosa, el dinero, en todo caso, como riqueza material, mercancías, puede ser ropa, puede ser autos, pero en general, el capital es un proceso. Que es lo que plantea a Marx, y el proceso es cómo la gente se organiza, organiza el trabajo, unos trabajan para otros y cómo toman efectivamente de la naturaleza lo que necesitan para producir nuevas mercancías o nuevos valores de uso, que es lo que, la utilidad que es lo que le llama Marx.En ese sentido, producir muchos valores de uso requiere necesariamente, de algún vínculo con la naturaleza. Ese vínculo Marx le llama metabolismo social porque es un vínculo, no solo, porque tomas lo que necesitas, los materiales, por decir así, algunos les llaman recursos en la economía. Generalmente en la ecología política o en la agro ecología les llamamos bienes [00:04:00] naturales. Porque no son cosas para simplemente recursos que están ahí disponibles para gastarse. Y ese vínculo que hoy se ha desarrollado todavía más con algunos teóricos de que han seguido la idea de metabolismo social de Marx, plantean siguiendo también algunas ideas de Marx, que es la forma de organizarnos, de organizar el trabajo. El trabajo es el vínculo con la naturaleza y ese vínculo es a la vez un intercambio de materia y de energía con los ecosistemas locales. Ese intercambio este más le llama metabolismo. Entonces, digo todo esto porque es muy importante pensar como lo que le llamamos la economía, desarrolla ciertas formas de actividad, de trabajo material y no solo de intercambios dinerarios y monetarios, porque a veces parece que una actividad da muchas ganancias y podría estar, tomando, por ejemplo, de la naturaleza, [00:05:00] demasiados bienes naturales, aunque produzca en realidad muchas ganancias, monetarias.Y en ese sentido, lo que he estado estudiando es precisamente cómo se despliegue el capital, buscando por decir así, lo que necesita de los ecosistemas, pero de los ecosistemas no necesita todo a veces, en ocasiones, si necesita todo el ecosistema, que eso es lo que voy a explicar, rapidísimo ahorita.Pero en otras ocasiones, necesita solo uno de los bienes naturales, necesita tierra para cultivar y entonces acapara sea comprando, sea despojando, sea rentando la tierra. Por el otro lado, puede no necesitar el suelo para producir, no solo es la tierra para producir, sino que además necesita que esa tierra tenga climas.Esto parece, no tan de sentido común. Lo tienen mucho más claro todos los campesinos, pero es evidente que en ciertas zonas se dan ciertas, [00:06:00] especies y en otras, por ejemplo en lugares fríos, se dan más pues la producción boscosa y por tanto, la producción, se cultiva pino y eucalipto. Y en los trópicos se cultivan frutas.Entonces las inversiones económicas que le podríamos llamar el capital, pero ese capital es un proceso como he dicho, reorganiza los trabajadores, a las trabajadoras. Organiza también la relación con la naturaleza o la reorganiza. Entonces, doy estos ejemplos siempre porque son muy ilustrativos de lo que sucede, por ejemplo, si hay más inversiones para cultivar, para producción maderera. La producción, obviamente los quien invierte requiere su ganancia rápido. Entonces tienes que invertir y tener ganancias. Tienes que invertir y vender rápidamente la madera, por ejemplo. Por tanto, pues, se cultivan las especies que crezcan más [00:07:00] rápido.Y por como crecen más rápido, necesitan más agua. Si necesitan más agua, agotan los mantos acuíferos. Aquí tenemos una consecuencia directa de la organización humana en la naturaleza, en como reorganizarla porque va sustituyendo el bosque nativo y lo sustituyes por especies que solo son las que se pueden vender, en este caso, pino y eucalipto.Ahí está claro, como entonces, se reorganiza el tiempo, a los trabajadores, por ejemplo. Si hay todos los trabajadores de la industria forestal que les ofrecen un tipo de trabajo y la relación con el agua, con los ecosistemas locales y con las especies que cultivas, ahí está todo el circuito de lo que organiza.Entonces, cuando pensamos en inversiones, no estamos pensando generalmente en lo que hay detrás. Así podríamos seguir la producción de un auto, la producción de algodón para nuestra ropa, la producción de cristal, la producción de hierro, de plásticos, todo se puede, pensar así. Y también dentro [00:08:00] de las formas de despliegue de la naturaleza, he pensado que haya en ocasiones, hay otra forma que le llamo bio mercantilización turística, que es acaparar ecosistemas completos para ponerlos, por decir así, poner a las ballenas, poner a los caimanes a trabajar, que es una forma de decirlo en el sentido de la renta de la tierra, la renta de los ecosistemas y sobre todo, la gran industria que se construye alrededor de los enclaves turísticos.Todo esto constituye una nueva relación con la naturaleza que es, creo la que vamos a estar conversando en tu programa, porque no modifica o no solo se le ha visto generalmente al turismo como una industria benévola porque no tiene chimeneas. Es muy distinta, por ejemplo, de pues de la industria petrolera, que es la que generalmente pensamos que es la única sucia.Pero la industria turística es [00:09:00] una industria. Lo que pasa es que es una industria de servicios. Es una industria también global. También es monopólica. O sea que está concentrada en pocas corporaciones y cambia, por supuesto, la forma de organizarnos alrededor de los ecosistemas.Chris: Wow. Me ha dejado pensar mucho en como las cosas que parecen como tours o recorridos, quizás podrían estar promocionados como ecológicas o ecológicas, caminatas en el bosque o igual esos recorridos en el mar, en el Yucatán o aquí en Oaxaca para ir a solo ver las las ballenas o tortugas, etc. ¿Es un poco así de lo que estás hablando, no? Cesar: Sí. Ahora hay que decir que estos servicios que tú mencionas generalmente que a veces les ponen el nombre eco turístico, son las de menor [00:10:00] producción de valor o mejor dicho, no producen valor, sino solo hay intercambio dinerario. Pero las que tienen mayor producción de valor son la enorme infraestructura global, los hoteles y las aerolíneas. Y estos son controlados evidentemente por las grandes corporaciones y tienen un impacto gigantesco. Es decir, cuando nosotros pensamos que vamos a hacer una actividad también en Oaxaca, por ejemplo, como tú mismo dices, y que estamos viendo una actividad muy linda de reproducción de la vida de las tortugas. No estamos pensando en toda la cadena de mercancías que es una cadena de servicios que también no solo tiene nuestra huella ecológica, sino de cómo reordenan las inversiones los territorios.En México, por ejemplo, pasamos en alrededor de principios del siglo XXI, de 7 millones de turistas internacionales a 30 o 35 millones.Es decir, en 20 años, prácticamente se ha triplicado el [00:11:00] volumen de, turistas. Ahora, esos turistas no, además, siempre pensamos incluso los gobiernos, incluso el último gobierno ha promovido todavía más el turismo, porque se supone que eso es totalmente benéfico, porque obviamente traen una derrama económica para lugares generalmente también que son pobres.Pero el problema de esta percepción es que no estamos, quizá a veces teniendo una perspectiva crítica donde evidentemente se va formando también una división del trabajo social y una división de la naturaleza y quién accede a ella y para qué. Son las elites mundiales, es decir, también los trabajadores asalariados del norte, que tienen mayor recursos y mayor seguridad económica, los que tienen más tiempo libre y también más recursos para acceder al ocio y la diversión.Las clases bajas no. Entonces hay una división de entrada por el [00:12:00] dinero, por el acceso, quien puede acceder al primero, al tiempo libre. Pero no todo mundo que tenga tiempo libre tiene acceso a los servicios de ocio, diversión y turísticos. Entonces, aquí hay una doble división, una división de clase, ya viéndolo así, vamos viendo que entonces los ecosistemas no se usan simplemente, por todos, de manera igualitaria, sino que unos tienen más acceso y otros no. O unos más tienen acceso de manera paulatina y otros mucho más esporádicamente que es esa división de clase. Pero la otra división que es muy importante es el consumo, es decir, convertir, por eso le llamo bio mercantilización, en el sentido de convertir a los ecosistemas en una mercancía que vender, esa mercancía no te la puedes llevar como, como otras, que si se producen con la mano humana, sino ecosistemas que están puestos al [00:13:00] servicio de la renta, pero también a un nuevo control. Y esto es importante, un nuevo control, del ecosistema.Generalmente casi todos los ecosistemas del mundo tienen una gestión hasta hace muy poco tenían una gestión comunitaria. Esta gestión no es solo, que la gente comparta los bienes naturales, sino que hay reglas para compartir los bienes naturales. La premio Nobel de economía Ostrom descubrió curiosamente, se viene a descubrir en las ciencias sociales algo que en realidad los pueblos y las comunidades realizan desde hace cientos de años. O sea, para ellos no es un descubrimiento, es su forma de vida. Que es, que hay un sistema de autorregulación donde, por ejemplo, para no agotar los bienes naturales, hay sistemas de rotación. Hay sanciones para quien viole sistema de rotación, límites, por ejemplo, para [00:14:00] pescar, límites para hacer, para poner a pastar a las vacas, límites para, por ejemplo, en algunas especies que saben que si se recolecta demasiado, pueden provocar la caída de un banco, por ejemplo, de moluscos.En fin, hay muchísimos saberes de los pueblos, donde saben cómo no agotar los bienes naturales. No quiere decir que todos los pueblos tienen sistemas de autorregulación que les llaman comunes. Pero significa que muchos pueblos sí los tienen. Cuando llega un enclave turístico, cambia este tipo de relación y cambia la gestión de puede ser de un manglar, puede ser de una laguna, puede ser de un río, puede ser de un bosque. Y se orienta hacia la venta de servicios, cambiando a veces de manera armónica con esa regulación comunitaria, a veces desplazando por completo a esa regulación comunitaria y convirtiendolos en [00:15:00] trabajadores de los servicios turísticos.Estos dos cambios ya deberían hablarnos el tanto la perspectiva de clase como la perspectiva comunitaria, de dos formas muy violentas en realidad de desorganizar y volver a organizar, pero ya con la base de querer generar ganancias tanto a los trabajadores como a las comunidades. Y junto con las comunidades, los ecosistemas locales.Chris: Wow. Pues sí, inmediatamente hablando de la cuestión comunitaria. Y esos cambios me ha pensado en la milpa y también como, eso fue mucho parte de la vida cotidiana de la gente. Y también pensando en la milpa, o sea ese sistema de agricultura que hay en Mesoamérica. He pensado también en esa cosa de ciertas ciudades o pueblos antiguos mesoamericanos que, fueran [00:16:00] supuestamente abandonados, pero pensando en la milpa, la necesidad de poner límites en el uso del suelo que también quizás eso tenía un lugar en el contexto de una sociedad, o al menos ciudad, o al menos pueblo entero como ya es el tiempo para dejar este lugar a su tiempo. Pero esa cosa es algo que que ha surgido muchísimo en el podcast sobre los años, con esa cuestión de sacar límites, que el turismo es una industria que destruyen los límites. Y pues, mencionaste al principio de Marx y también mencionamos de un poco de la ecología y has escrito un poco de marxismo ecológico. Y quería preguntarte si marxismo ecológico es solo una manera de medir y definir lo que [00:17:00] está pasando o también como reaccionar, responder, evaluar quizás. Cesar: Yo diría que el marxismo ecológico es solo una de las tradiciones de los nuevos ambientalismos, y de las tradiciones teóricas. Porque, deberíamos separar los saberes bioculturales de los pueblos. Es decir, la forma efectivamente que son, saberes sobre la flora, la fauna, los suelos, el clima, la producción, el consumo y el desecho que las comunidades tienen. Otra vez, no todas las comunidades tienen un sistema auto regulado en torno de todo esto. Algunas si los mantienen. Otras se han, mantienen partes y otras más han perdido buena parte de su organización, y entonces empiezan a producir lo que yo llamo una perturbación metabólica. "Perturbación" viene de la teoría de sistemas, por ejemplo, nos explicaban los que se dedican a [00:18:00] eso, especialmente por ejemplo, en los ecosistemas acuíferos que, por ejemplo, cuando hay un cambio bioquímico en las aguas, por ejemplo un contaminante está entrando rápidamente, pues evidentemente, porque en una laguna muy grande, pues no se nota ese contaminante no? Es decir, pareciera que lo puede diluir. Es tanta la cantidad de agua que diluye los contaminantes, no?Pero si hay de pronto una derrama muy importante de un contaminante. Por ejemplo, puede cambiar de color o puede cambiar, repentinamente. Esa capacidad de ilusión o de resistencia, por ejemplo, para mantener su color o mantener ciertas formas, es lo que se le ha llamado resiliencia. Y, la transformación abrupta sería una perturbación en el sistema como tal. Entonces, pensando yo en Marx y pensando en esta teoría de sistemas, pensé [00:19:00] que la idea de que tenemos este vínculo, de la organización social con la naturaleza, pensé en la idea de que la perturbación metabólica podía ser un cambio abrupto de la relación con el ecosistema.Que no necesariamente es porque se le quita la tierra a la gente, por ejemplo, pienso en que los campesinos mismos para poder competir en el mercado, como el mercado está acaparado por grandes corporaciones que producen muy rápido, ellos tienen que empezar a comprar los paquetes tecnológicos, básicamente agrotóxicos, para producir más rápido. Entonces eso, aunque ellos tuvieran una relación más o menos, sostenible, más o menos armónica con su milpa al meter un agro tóxico, empiezan a cambiar su relación metabólica con el ecosistema, aunque no haya llegado la corporación a obligarlos, sino que ellos toman la decisión porque cada vez su producto en el mercado vale [00:20:00] menos.Entonces tienen que producir más. Esa perturbación, por ejemplo, y esos, están organizados alrededor también de ciertos saberes. Entonces, por un lado, tenemos los saberes de las comunidades que pueden perderse, que pueden desestabilizarse o que puede cambiar, como he dicho, y por eso me refería a la perturbación metabólica comunitaria, cambia abruptamente y puede ser muy dañino para sus ecosistemas.Y por el otro lado, tenemos una serie de saberes científicos de una, y de una serie de saberes teóricos, que podría reunirse en varias tendencias, y una de ellas es el marxismo ecológico. Hay una serie de autores, que han regresado a la lectura de Marx pensando que nos puede decir en términos ecológicos y en los textos publicados, los que Marx si quiso publicar, hay una enorme cantidad de referencias y una visión [00:21:00] que, al contrario de lo que se había pensado hasta hace poco, Marx siempre está pensando en la naturaleza.Pero también hay un paquete de notas y de cuadernos de investigación que son los que han dado, por decir así, nuevos descubrimientos. Hasta hoy no se ha publicado todo lo que Marx escribió. Aunque muchas de esas eran notas, no eran textos como los que se conocen como Los Grundrisse o como El Capital.Estas notas están siendo revisadas por muchos expertos, y uno de ellos, por ejemplo, dos de ellos, John Bellamy Foster, ya hace ya 20 años y Kohei Saito de Japón han encontrado en las notas de Marx que él estaba cada vez más preocupado por como la industria capitalista, la industria de la agricultura agotaba los suelos.Entonces, resulta que Marx estaba estudiando precisamente química, estaba estudiando todo la la geología de los suelos, la composición y estaba [00:22:00] muy interesado en lo que iba a producir el capital y estaba convencido al final de su vida, solo que ya no produjo un texto para publicar, estaba muy preocupado por el descubrimiento que el mismo había pensado de que el capital agota las bases de su propia renovación. Agota, es una forma de relación social, aunque pensamos que solo económica, pero es una relación económico-social que agota los bienes naturales. Aunque eso sí lo publicó, Marx dice literalmente, el capital socava a las dos fuentes de la riqueza. Dice, "el trabajo y la naturaleza." Y esa visión doble me parece muy importante al nombrarla en una serie de académicos que han mantenido esta investigación a partir de ciertas ideas marxistas y han seguido avanzando.Son una veintena de ecologistas marxistas que están discutiendo hoy el cambio climático [00:23:00] que están discutiendo hoy la crisis ambiental a partir de la crítica al capitalismo. Chris: wow.Ye wow. Entonces, mi próxima pregunta viene un poco de la capacidad de considerar esas crisis que mencionaste, dentro de otras aperturas de ecología. Entonces, pues, en la segunda temporada del podcast entrevisté a Pedro UC de Muuch Xiinbal en el Yucatán, sobre la situación el mal llamado tren maya y también con un grupo del pueblo Wixarika que hablaba sobre los invernaderos que estaban invadiendo a su región, así como sobre los cazadores furtivos de pepeyote, los turistas espirituales estaban también causando daño a sus tierras, a sus [00:24:00] relaciones, no solo económicas, pero también culturales. Quizás podemos decir espirituales. Entonces, en este contexto, a menudo se dan dos tipos de extractivismo a la vez, la transformación de la tierra en mercancía y el intento de adquisición de conocimiento o poder espiritual.Cesar: Entonces, tengo curiosidad por saber cómo ves que estos dos mundos interactúan tanto en México como en otras partes de Latinoamérica, en esta cuestión de que la ecología también incluye la cultura y la religióna de la gente. Sí, bueno, el capital, como relación social, tiende a mercantilizar todo. Hay que recordar, por ejemplo, yo también doy siempre como ejemplo que el maquillaje de las mujeres en realidad era, que está feminizado era el maquillaje de los pueblos. Era el embellecimiento. Todas las [00:25:00] culturas, todas, todas las civilizaciones tribales hasta grandes civilizaciones de agricultura, ya basadas en los ríos, las grandes culturas en todos los tiempos, solemos embellecer nuestros cuerpos. Solemos decorarles de muy distintas maneras, de muy distintas formas. Generalmente ligadas al proceso cultural local. El capital lo ha vuelto una mercancía. Cesar: Es decir, en vez, si lo pensamos, antes pues todas las culturas, las tribales podían embellecer sus cuerpos, sus pieles, de múltiples maneras, sabían la técnica para hacerlo, utilizar los materiales para hacerlo, o forjar sus propias joyas, y hacer su propio vestido. Todo lo que acabo de decir, el capital lo ha convertido en una mercancía y despojado, por decir así, de los saberes.No sabemos hoy la gente [00:26:00] que vivimos en las ciudades urbanas, modernas, totalmente capitalizadas. No sabemos hacer esas cosas. No sabemos embellecer nuestro cuerpo, o lo sabemos a partir de los materiales y las mercancías que nos vende una industria. Entonces el capital utiliza nuestras necesidades y la necesidad de embellecernos no es una frivolidad. Lo que pasa es que se convierte en una frivolidad cuando se produce en masa mercancías que efectivamente son para el embellecimiento y traen junto con ellas un marketing de embellecimiento de ciertas formas, además de belleza hegemónica. Entonces, por qué digo este ejemplo que parece muy lejano a nuestra conversación sobre la naturaleza, porque el capital puede convertir en servicio y por tanto, en un servicio que de ganancias prácticamente cualquier forma [00:27:00] etno cultural que le llaman, cualquier forma etno turística, cualquier forma eco turística, es decir, generar ganancias a partir de los servicios de conocer, de divertirse, del ocio, de incluso del contacto social que le llaman turismo de contacto social. Es decir que busca una experiencia alternativa que puede ser gran diversión, estas máquinas que te elevan con el agua en el mar con un técnico que te acompaña, o simplemente las motonetas que en lugar, en lugares boscosos, es decir, puede ser cualquier tipo de servicio turístico que esté acompañado, acompañando a vivir una experiencia en un ecosistema que generalmente está fuera de tu ciudad. Pero además, esta división, ciudad y lo rural o ciudad, enclave turístico o ciudad [00:28:00] también lugar del Edén, lugar paradisíaco. Esta división se ha producido, pues por la concentración de capital en las ciudades y por la concentración del trabajo en la ciudad. Entonces, lo que esta división internacional del trabajo que produce entonces ciudades que trabajan y lugares de descanso y, por tanto, trabajadores y trabajadoras que te tienen que atender para tu descanso, pues es lógico que es una división internacional que también hace que haya países productores de servicios turísticos y países consumidores o ciudades consumidoras de servicios turísticos también. ¿Porque también planteo esta enorme división? Porque, la extracción de bienes naturales es muy conocida del sur al norte y tiene que ver efectivamente también con los enclaves turísticos y la infraestructura turística que se construye.[00:29:00] Los gustos y las necesidades de la, el turista de élite de clase media y de clase alta, requiere ciertas comodidades que no necesariamente son producidas en el ecosistema local. Entonces hay que traer, por decir así, si el turista de élite quiere fresas y luego un pan con aguacate, bueno, hay que traer fresas desde el otro lado del país, incluso del mundo, y hay que traer aguacate que que es... ¿Por qué digo estas dos? Porque la primera se produce bajo ciertas formas de explotación de jornaleros, por ejemplo, en el norte de México. Y hay que llevarlos hasta la península. Si dijéramos en el tren maya en un lugar que aparentemente podría ser, eco friendly, es decir, podría producir, intentar producir orgánicamente, no gastar agua o gastar [00:30:00] menos, o tener ciertos servicios en su localidad. Bueno, hay que traer fresas desde el otro lado, hay que traer aguacate que tiene un gran consumo de agua. Esto es muy importante, hay ciertas especies, lo que tú decías, de no hay límites. No hay límites. Si el turista quiere aguacate hay que tener aguacate y, por tanto, hay que traerlo de Michoacán, que agota también los mantos acuíferos y se expande como monocultivo.Ahí está esta relación extractiva, no sólo del sur al norte, también de las ciudades, frente a lo rural y de los enclaves turísticos frente a los ecosistemas en general. Entonces este tipo de relaciones no son sostenibles. Este extractivismo, entonces no solo es, puede ser cultural, evidentemente, que volver mercancía, relaciones sociales, relaciones culturales que en general no eran, no entraban a la esfera de las mercancías. Por eso también llamo bio mercantilización, porque es incluir en [00:31:00] esferas de los bienes naturales, esferas de los ecosistemas al área de las mercancías, cuando antes no lo eran, generalmente es el agua lo que pensamos. Antes no era una mercancía. Ahora, cada vez más, hay un intento, porque lo sea.Entonces, en este doble sentido de extractivismo, me parece muy importante hacer la claridad de que los enclaves turísticos son también una forma de extracción y de descampesinización. Otra vez, hace una perturbación metabólica porque el campesino que no puede acceder con la propia venta de su producto, ve como una opción el trabajar en un hotel, ve como una opción abandonar la tierra. Y si se abandona la tierra, entonces se puede rentar para otras cosas, o se puede deforestar o se puede urbanizar esa tierra si el campesino... la mejor forma de cuidar la tierra es que el campesino la siga cultivando. Pero si [00:32:00] la abandona, le puede suceder cualquier cosa a la tierra. Y terminamos efectivamente con un enclave turístico que incluso puede tener, insisto, una perspectiva verde, decir que está produciendo, que tiene comida orgánica o que recicla las aguas o que hace este tipo de acciones que son evidentemente muy positivas, pero en comparación con el cambio metabólico que va a producir en los campesinos del ecosistema local, abandonando la tierra y considerando el enorme consumo que tiene que llevar de otras partes del país y del mundo para el consumo de élite, pues parece que es insuficiente reciclar el agua, no dar popotes o tener una dieta vegetariana en un hotel. Es decir, la perturbación del ecosistema y la extracción de bienes naturales de otros lugares y el más importante, el agua, [00:33:00] simplemente no son cambios mitigables, no son cambios que se pueden comparar con las pequeñas acciones de cuidado ecológico que, por supuesto, todos tenemos que hacer, y todos tenemos que educarnos en ellas, pero a nivel estructural, por supuesto, el enclave turístico es más destructor, enclave corporativa, enclave industrial, enclave de oligopolios, enclave de gran consumo. Que estas acciones que mencionan.Chris: Gracias César. Pues una cosa que solo pude entender cuando ya he empezado trabajando en la industria turística, era de como cada lugar que fui a visitar en el mundo antes, aunque si me quedé una semana, dos semanas, un mes o igual como tres, seis meses, [00:34:00] no me quedé suficientemente tiempo para entender la consecuencia de mis movimientos allá.Y entonces creo que eso se queda muy fuerte, que los turistas tienen una responsabilidad que está totalmente, no totalmente, pero casi totalmente alejado de su capacidad para saberlo, para entenderlo, y, pero cuando hablamos del poblador campesino, que no solo tiene como ciertas fuerzas económicas, pero también siento que deseos culturales, o sea, como ese sueño americano, que ahora es un sueño global y eso. Pero por ejemplo, me quedé pensando los pueblos de Oaxaca que hacen ecoturismo, y ecoturismo basado en el municipio, en la asamblea, como una manera de quedarse la gente en el pueblo, generar ingresos y quizás también entrarse [00:35:00] con un vínculo y relación de hospitalidad que va más allá de la industria turística, por ejemplo, pero también la mera presencia del extranjero, extranjera en un lugar así cambia, lo que existía en el pueblo antes . Y en muchos pueblos, si hay gente que dicen, pues no, "fue un error." Y hay otros que dicen "no, o sea, está alimentando, muy bien, el pueblo." Entonces quería preguntarte qué piensas de esas, no necesariamente contradicciones, pero distintas reflexiones y consideraciones.Cesar: Yo creo que es una alternativa, efectivamente, cuando viene como proyecto de los propios pueblos. Y cuando los pueblos tienen un proceso organizativo que les permite, afrontar el reto de una empresa comunitaria, de una cooperativa comunitaria [00:36:00] de servicios comunitarios y establecer efectivamente las reglas, y las formas de regulación de visitar, sea una comunidad, un ecosistema, en fin. Es decir, creo que cuando viene desde abajo, es una verdadera alternativa, aunque yo diría que es indispensable combinar con las formas de producción campesina que, insisto, se deterioran y se deteriora todos los ecosistemas.Entonces, creo que sería una forma desde abajo. El problema es cuando se impone desde arriba. Como en el tren en maya, donde se abren zonas hacia el turismo, donde formalmente se va a cuidar, discursivamente se va a cuidar estos elementos, pero hemos visto cómo la captura, por ejemplo, de las playas, cómo la captura y espacialización de los negocios con gran [00:37:00] inversión, acaparan por ejemplo, el comercio, acaparan el acceso a las playas, acaparan incluso la forma de urbanización. No son combinables, es que hay gente que piensa que lo comunitario puede combinarse armónicamente con las grandes inversiones del gran capital y con el gran capital corporativo turístico.Pero pues tienen lógicas distintas. No es que sea una buena y una mala no es una cuestión de moral, es una cuestión de organización social. Si el turista está de acuerdo, por ejemplo, en adecuarse a una dieta que localmente tenga una menor huella ecológica, y además se puede programar los límites como tú también destacabas de la capacidad de visita y la carga que puede tener la visita hacia el lugar en específico, puede ser perfectamente una alternativa, aunque [00:38:00] hay que decirlo, lo que pasa es que si cambiamos de escala, no es viable que mil millones de europeos y norteamericanos estén viajando todo el mundo. No no pueden producir tanto Co2, es decir, no pueden, entonces tenemos y hasta ahora no hay una discusión global sobre esto.Está en la discusión sobre los jets de los multimillonarios porque de por sí, un vuelo es muy contaminante, pero los jets son todavía más porque están dedicados al confort y para viajes que no son indispensables, sino de lujo. Entonces, si pensamos en la, en lo que habría que no solo regular, sino prohibir, los vuelos en jet, en la explosión gigantesca de las aerolíneas a nivel internacional, incluso en vuelos comerciales y no privados es insostenible.La industria de las aerolíneas dice que ellos solo producen el 1% [00:39:00] del Co2 mundial. Si, pero así cada industria dice no es que yo solo produzco el 2% o el 5%, o el 0.5%. Claro, entonces, al final, nadie es responsable de la producción de Co2, porque cada uno puede decir yo soy tan poco responsable que no me regulen, pero no es viable.Entonces, creo que tendríamos que pensar en turismo local, con acortar las cadenas de mercancías de producción de servicios turísticos. Es decir, pensando en que son los nacionales, los conacionales y los internacionales tienen que ser regulados. Bueno, incluso que tú conocerás más, yo conozco mucho más el turismo comunitario y los impactos comunitarios y menos el impacto del turismo barrial y urbano que viven varias ciudades europeas y que prácticamente está fuera de control en París, en Barcelona, está fuera de control y junto con Airbnb o otras [00:40:00] plataformas que permiten la llegada masiva de gente o incluso la visita permanente de extranjeros que no tiene que ver con su nacionalidad, no es una cosa xenofóbica, sino en el sentido del desplazamiento que no lo quieren los extranjeros, por ejemplo, en México, no es que sean malos, no es que sean, que sean extranjeros. Insisto, no es una cuestión ni racial ni xenofóbica, sino en el sentido de que los extranjeros en México, en la ciudad de México, no en una comunidad, no en un ecosistema todavía, protegido en un ecosistema, digamos más armónico que el de la ciudad, está siendo desplazada a la gente porque la capacidad dineraria, la capacidad de ingreso, la capacidad de clase desplaza la habitación en las colonias como Roma y Condesa. Entonces, por eso es muy importante que, cuando pensamos las alternativas, creo que tenemos que mirar todas estas [00:41:00] escalas, para la comunidad por supuesto, creo si, insisto si, si viene desde la comunidad como proyecto comunitario. Yo creo que es un proyecto que puede fortalecer el proceso, puede seguir manteniendo ciertos equilibrios ambientales y puede ser una alternativa económica de ingreso para las comunidades. Si lo vemos como estructura internacional, el turismo comunitario se queda muy corto para la capacidad de que, que los últimos 40 años de neoliberalismo han creado en infraestructura. Es decir, si hoy se puede viajar a cualquier lugar del mundo también a menor precio es porque hay más aerolíneas, es porque hay más infraestructura, porque hay más competencia, porque hay paquetes de crédito. Es decir, hay una mega industria, porque hay una enorme marketing para venderte vuelos, para ofrecerte, vuele ahora y pague después. Esa industria gigantesca mundial es insostenible, no puede viajar tanta gente al mundo, lo vamos [00:42:00] a reventar. Bueno, lo estamos reventando, estamos reventando al mundo con la movilidad turística internacional que cada vez es más incontrolable, y por el número. Otra vez, los turistas no son malos. El problema es la enorme cantidad de turistas que, efectivamente, por cantidad agotan el peyote en el norte, dejan sucia las playas, consumen más agua, requieren más energía eléctrica.Es decir, la industria en su forma corporativa e industrial internacional es insostenible. Creo que hay que pensar cómo se podría reducir los impactos hacia un turismo comunitario controlado por los propios pueblos. Y ahí, yo creo que esa es la alternativa. Chris: Mm. Mm. Gracias, César. Y pues, por lo que he leído, parece te metes mucho en la cuestión de autonomía y la emancipación de los pueblos. [00:43:00] Así como me gustaría preguntarte también, como crees que esos entendimientos puede ayudar a la gente urbana también para construir comunidad, comunalidad y solidaridad.Es algo que pensamos mucho como ah, pues ellos allá tienen la respuesta porque terreno y territorio, pero nosotros, como inquilinos, etcétera, que pues quizás jamás en nuestras vidas van a tener casa o territorio o terreno.Cesar: Bueno, primero mi interés es porque, en general, hasta 1989 hubo 200 años de una promesa, encabezada por la izquierda política. Y cuando me refiero a la izquierda política, no me refiero solo a los partidos, me refiero a un proyecto de superación de organización de la sociedad que prometió libertad, igualdad, fraternidad. El proceso por el cual, se [00:44:00] deterioraron los proyectos y los horizontes de transformación es muy grave, o sea, se ha pensado, hoy estamos, prácticamente resignados, resignadas, aunque hay millones que no, pero parece que si ese es el espíritu, el mood dirían los jóvenes, el mood de la época es que no hay una alternativa que, como han planteado Fredric Jameson o Žižek, es más fácil, pensar en el fin de la humanidad que en el fin del capitalismo, o en el fin del mundo que el fin del capitalismo. Entonces, estoy muy preocupado por pensar alternativas, y pensar efectivamente horizontes políticos, insisto político en un sentido amplio, no político partidario, sino político como la capacidad que tenemos, como incluso como especie para ponernos de acuerdo y tener horizontes de que queremos hacer, qué vida queremos, qué vida, qué proyecto de vida también deseamos y podemos [00:45:00] construir. De hecho, eso es lo que nos define como especie, que nos damos nuestra propia forma organizativa. Es la especie que puede tener una forma en China y otra forma en los Andes, y otra forma en Norteamérica, y otra forma en Sudáfrica. Cesar: Es decir, distintas formas de organización social que reproducen la vida y reproducir la vida, puede hacerse de manera muy despótica o de manera mucho más libre. Y en ese sentido, me he involucrado, si tengo muchísimo tiempo, quizá década y media o dos décadas, pensando entonces, cuáles han sido los elementos emancipatorios que ha habido en esos proyectos. Y en realidad lo que pensamos que fue el socialismo o el comunismo, que fueron en realidad experiencias autoritarias de partidos únicos y de élites, tenían en su germen otras ideas que era que el poder de los trabajadores, la autogestión de los trabajadores fuera la [00:46:00] nueva forma de organización social. Es decir, que los trabajadores tomaran las decisiones de la producción.Lo que yo veo en América Latina, donde hay un movimiento obrero menos importante, o menos grande, como lo fue el movimiento obrero en Europa, también en Estados Unidos, es que las formas originales no capitalistas permiten también reproducir la vida de otros modos, de modos comunitarios y de otros modos.Estos dos elementos en el norte de Europa, el poder de los trabajadores para controlar reproducción, los pueblos originarios controlando sus propios ecosistemas locales. Me parece que nos dan lecciones de otras formas de organización social. Acabo de publicar un texto, un libro, que habla de la producción de comunidad en las ciudades. Es una investigación en ciudad de México, donde un movimiento [00:47:00] masivo... es decir que generalmente también pensamos la comunidad como una cincuentena de personas, poquitas.Esas son miles de familias que han podido constituir, construir comunidades urbanas de la nada. No, no eran pueblos originarios que se desplazaron a la urbe, a la periferia como si ha sucedido, por ejemplo, en El Alto en Bolivia, sino clases populares, con muy bajos ingresos, que en la búsqueda de vivienda encontraron que no solo querían vivienda, sino también querían mejorar y dignificar su propia vida. Insisto de clases populares muy precarias. Y lo que han c onstruido, Raúl Zibechi, uno de los periodistas, intelectuales más conocidos de América Latina porque ha estado en prácticamente todos los movimientos sociales del continente. Desde el cono sur hasta México, desde la Araucanía de Chile hasta la Selva Lacandona en México. Lo llevamos [00:48:00] a que visitara esta experiencia aquí en Ciudad de México y dijo esta es la autonomía urbana más importante de América latina. Y concluyo diciendo en el tema de la autonomía. Entonces estoy muy interesado en no por estudiarlas desde la ciencia social como un objeto de estudio, sólo para saber cómo funcionan, sino porque al comprender cómo funcionan, nos dan alternativas a quienes no estamos en esas comunidades.Entonces, estoy muy interesado en conocer esas experiencias, rastrearlas históricamente, estudiarlas y entenderlas, y comprenderlas y aprender de ellas. Es decir, yo lo que quiero es que ese aprendizaje que han producido esas comunidades podamos comprenderlos otros que no vivimos en comunidad. Y, por último, un aprendizaje que de una noción que ha surgido después de la caída del muro de Berlín ha sido precisamente la autonomía, porque frente a las experiencias autoritarias de Europa del este, pues pareciera que [00:49:00] nadie queremos repetir una experiencia que, aunque rechazamos las formas capitalistas y liberales de la política, no queremos tampoco una experiencia autoritaria y centralizadora, y mucho menos totalitaria de un partido único que es el que decide todo. Lo que hemos encontrado a tanto teórica como en estos casos empíricos es que la autonomía, la capacidad de darse sus propias leyes, eso significa autonomía, pero más allá de las leyes, es gobernarse a sí mismo. En realidad es la emancipación. Emancipación significa quitarse de encima la mano del señor. ¿Qué señor? Era el señor feudal, así se creó más o menos la palabra desde, o del esclavo desde hace muchísimo tiempo. Quitarse de encima la mano del amo o del amo o del señor feudal, es decir que no te mande alguien más.Eso es vivir también en libertad, pero las comunidades viven en colectivo y para emanciparse requieren quitarse [00:50:00] ahora de una mano que es invisible, la mano del mercado, la mano del capital. Entonces, como nos emancipamos también en colectivo y la autonomía. Gobernarse a si mismo, significa también poner un freno a las decisiones de estados que generalmente en América Latina han tenido una perspectiva colonial en relación a los pueblos indígenas, o neocolonial, o también de colonialismo interno, como decía don Pablo González Casanova.Ahora, por último, la autonomía, entonces la considero, es el elemento central, incluso más allá del igualitarismo económico. Son dos proyectos distintos. Es decir, cuando la gente logra dignificar su vida, creo que es muy positivo, creo que todos quienes tenemos una perspectiva crítica emancipatoria o incluso de izquierda, queremos que la gente en general vivamos dignamente, no con grandes lujos, pero tampoco con una enorme precaridad donde a veces, pues si muchas comunidades viven en una enorme precaridad. [00:51:00] Pero lo que es más interesante es que sean los propios pueblos los que decidan como vivir y que decidan que es pobreza y que decidan que es dignificar, y que no se decida desde el estado, ni desde la academia, ni desde los estudiosos de el igualitarismo.Qué es lo que necesitan sus vidas, y cuando los pueblos logran controlar sus vidas, nos enseñan, otra forma de libertad. En ese sentido creo que estas experiencias también son reunidas para precisamente seguir la discusión de cómo sociedades que ya no tenemos organización comunitaria, que no tenemos una trama de organización tampoco en la fábrica, podríamos emular, replicar algunas de las prácticas, algunas de las formas organizativas para vivir efectivamente y regular la sociedad de una manera a otra, una manera más libre, una manera más igualitaria. Ese es un poco también el trabajo que he estado haciendo, que tiene que ver con [00:52:00] esta preocupación de, yo creo que hay mucho, muchísimas alternativas, pero ya no hay una alternativa que llame a todos, , que fue lo que movilizó en el siglo XX a muchísimos a muchísimas, a millones y millones de personas que incluso dieron su vida por hacer un cambio, un cambio que llamaban revolucionario. Y me parece que hoy, a pesar de que tenemos muchas más experiencias alternativas de base de los pueblos, de alternativas agroecológicas, de alternativas comunicacionales, de formas de regulación, de nuevas formas de establecer las relaciones de género, tenemos múltiples alternativas y múltiples teorías. Hoy pareciera que no, no los podemos, articular, digamos, en un proyecto común y a lo mejor necesitamos algunos elementos comunes, no para crear una sociedad que toda sea igual, sino al contrario, como decían, como dicen los zapatistas, un mundo donde quepan muchos mundos, muchas alternativas, pero [00:53:00] pensadas en muchas formas también de, de relación social comunal, igualitaria, libre y emancipadas.Chris: Mm. Sí, pues a través de ese comentario sobre la autonomía y la dignidad, y la diversidad que puede venir cuando tenemos esa libertad, quería preguntarte si podrías imaginar de un futuro sin turismo como lo estamos criticando el día de hoy, quizás un tipo de ocio, o viaje, o interculturalidad, que podrías imaginar, ¿Qué planteas en la conversación para la gente antes de terminamos aquí? Cesar: Si, primero, sobre esto del turismo, creo que deberíamos pensar que el mundo está terminando tal y como lo conocíamos. No hay ya condiciones, nos [00:54:00] dirigimos efectivamente, a un posible colapso sistémico si seguimos consumiendo energía y materia al ritmo que lo estamos haciendo. Y cuando digo al ritmo que lo estamos haciendo, reconociendo que los pobres consumen menos agua, por ejemplo, hay un estudio de familias del agua en ciudad de México donde algunas familias, las más pobres de la ciudad, consumen solo unos 50 litros, y en cambio, las más ricas o las más adineradas consumen más de 1000 litros al día, una sola familia.Entonces, me parece muy importante, entender estas diferencias de clase vinculadas a, la naturaleza y por el otro lado, pensar que todos, que hemos vivido, lo decía un empresario en un documental, dice, estamos volando un momento de la historia donde parece muy lindo porque hemos tenido una serie de comodidades que ninguna civilización pudo tener.Es decir, conocer el [00:55:00] planeta entero porque tenemos esa oportunidad cuando tenemos un poco de dinero, incluso aunque no seamos ricos, tenemos la capacidad, por la infraestructura, por las fuerzas productivas, porque efectivamente hay una red mundial que lo permite. Pero esto es insostenible, como son insostenibles muchos de los lujos.Es muy lamentable tener que pensar que ese lujo turístico debe terminar. Quizá en una sociedad donde pudiéramos decidir que preferiríamos. Pues, por supuesto, en mi caso, yo decidiría también conocer muchos lugares y reducir mi huella ecológica en muchísimas otras cosas que no son indispensables, pero eso solo sería posible, es decir, mantener el turismo. No bajo la forma corporativa que tenemos hoy. Si pudiéramos reducir nuestro consumo, por ejemplo, en el vestido, nuestro consumo eléctrico, nuestro consumo, por supuesto de carbono, entre muchos otros contaminantes y consumo de materia y energía. Entonces creo que [00:56:00] habría que pensar que en la nueva sociedad, que se tiene que construir, y a veces la gente lo ve a uno como loco, como diciendo, pero cómo, eso no va a suceder. El capitalismo está funcionando perfectamente. Pero estamos en un memento ya de transición, estamos, lo que sucedió con el huracán el año pasado aquí en México, en Acapulco, lo que sucedió en Valencia, son solo las primeras señales de muchísimas más que hay que no son conocidas. Estas fueron tragedias humanas y por tanto, se conocieron más. Pero ya vivimos una transición en términos del sistema tierra, que no sabemos qué va a suceder y debemos prepararnos para eso. Entonces, creo que debemos pensar más bien en cómo sería una sociedad alternativa donde el turismo comunitario y el turismo a baja escala, y el turismo controlado, o mejor dicho, regulado con bajo impacto de huella ecológica fuera posible, pensando en toda su cadena de mercancías, toda su cadena de servicios.[00:57:00] Creo que ese es el horizonte que deberíamos trazar en torno del turismo. Y mientras tanto, seguir apoyando las alternativas de los pueblos por controlar sus ecosistemas cuando deciden efectivamente, abrirlos al turismo, en cualquiera de sus formas.Y por el otro lado, y para cerrar efectivamente, hay decenas de aprendizajes de lo que donde yo me he acercado, y me he acercado también, precisamente porque he visto no solo esperanza, sino formas alternativas de relación social. Digo algunas, se puede crear comunidad urbana. Las clases populares tienen una capacidad política propia que se tiene que desarrollar, no es automática, no está ahí por su esencia popular, sino que puede generar sus propias formas políticas en un largo proceso de aprendizaje que permite entender que la comunidad es también una forma de ejercicio del [00:58:00] poder, una forma que regula también las posiciones, actitudes egoístas y las posiciones que se aprovechan de los otros, y las reprime, las suprime, pero también permite la producción de comunes, de beneficio común y la producción de nuevas relaciones sociales que satisfacen a todos y a todas, porque no son solo relaciones materiales, sino relaciones también emocionales, vínculos afectivos, satisfacción por servir a otros. Es decir, la comunidad si puede reproducirse en las ciudades, a diferencia de nuestra noción, de que solo en las comunidades rurales puede producirse, o en el ámbito rural puede producirse comunidad.Estos elementos son muy importantes. Por el otro lado, que la enorme riqueza biocultural de los pueblos, a pesar del deterioro ecosistémico, a pesar del avance de la urbanización, a pesar del deterioro de [00:59:00] los campesinos como clase social, a pesar del cambio climático, los pueblos siguen resistiendo. Ya han encontrado formas maravillosas para mantener cohesionadas sus comunidades, para reorganizarse, para tener sus propios horizontes político-comunitarios, sus autonomías y los saberes bio culturales que guardan, que ahora lo estoy precisamente investigando, como decía yo, en el caso de Texcoco, que es aprender de su relación con las otras especies, con las algas, las algas del lago de Texcoco, con las aves, con los suelos, suelos que no eran fértiles o que tienen una producción diferencial en en el maíz, en las otras especies que cultivan, sus propios saberes del cultivo, la combinación de cultivo, su relación con la tierra. Hablan de un, digamos de un cúmulo civilizatorio de ellos, pero de toda la humanidad. [01:00:00] Pues que nos da esperanza porque esos conocimientos, yo siempre les digo a mis estudiantes, imaginen en cuánto tiempo pasó para que pudiéramos aprender cuál hongo era comestible, cuál era alucinógeno y cuál no es comestible. Es un aprendizaje vital, no por, solo por los hongos, sino pero lo podemos reproducir en todos, el maíz, las frutas, las verduras, las hierbas medicinales.Es un conocimiento que no es de nadie. Es un común. Está abierto para todos y con ese podemos sobrevivir, los conocimientos sobre las semillas, sobre las aguas, sobre los ecosistemas locales. Y ese, los pueblos además están compartiendo esos saberes.Creo que con la idea de que la comunidad puede ser producida en la ciudad y que los saberes bio culturales no solo son de los pueblos locales, sino son los saberes de las grandes civilizaciones humanas, creo que tenemos dos herramientas para afrontar el enorme peligro que tenemos hoy frente al cambio [01:01:00] climático y los otros problemas ambientales que tenemos hoy, especialmente la sexta extinción masiva de las especies, la sedificación de los océanos, entre otros elementos. Pero tenemos dos grandes cúmulos de conocimiento humano que es milenario, y que ese nos puede permitir sobrevivir aquí y ahora, y hacia el futuro, que va a ser difícil, pero la organización de los pueblos, la organización de las clases populares, las alternativas que están ya instaladas en al menos las que yo conozco en toda América Latina, dan muestra que podemos tener alternativas viables, más libres, más horizontales, más democráticas, más emancipatorias.Chris: Mmm, vaya. Pues gracias, gracias César, por esos dos champiñones, lo comestible y de lo que está pasando en el día de hoy y también lo alucinógenico, lo que podemos imaginar en [01:02:00] otros mundos. Fue un gran gusto y honor para pasar este tiempo contigo. Entonces, me gustaría agradecerte, en el nombre de nuestros oyentes también.Y antes de terminar, solo me gustaría preguntarte si hay alguna manera de que los oyentes puedan seguir tu trabajo, ponerse en contacto contigo, leer tus libros, etcétera. Cesar: Sí, la forma más fácil es, utilizo X. . Que nombre tan horrible , pero es @cesarpinedar, con r al final, @cesarpinedar. Y también en mi página, enriquepineda.info, ahí en realidad están todos mis textos.Publico muchísimo en redes sociales, especialmente en X. Yo le sigo diciendo Twitter porque el verbo Twittear es mejor. ¿Cómo se dice ahora con X cuando publicas algo? Entonces, supongo, pero es más aburrido. En fin, les invito, agradecerte a ti mucho tus preguntas y esta conversación y esta [01:03:00] posibilidad de difundir un poquito de lo que sabemos y un poquito también de nuestro saber, que es un saber también entre muchos otros, muy diversos y legítimos y válidos todos.Entonces, agradecerte también por esta conversaciónChris: Gracias, César. ENGLISH TRANSCRIPT - Ecological Marxism w/ Cesar PinedaChris: [00:00:00] Welcome Cesar, to the podcast The End of Tourism. Thank you very much for being willing to talk to me today. I'd like to start by asking you, where are you today and what does the world look like for you there?Cesar: I live in Mexico City. For some time now I have been doing research, again, on the continuity of the airport process. So I often go to Texcoco, towards the east of the city, towards the old Texcoco lake, so I have a double view, the traditional urban view where I live and where I teach, which is at UNAM and Mora, and on the other hand, the towns, the community and the lake system that I visit daily.Chris: And how is that going in Texcoco, if I may ask?Cesar: It's going well, I think the people's front in defense of the land has had a new victory. And I think it's a new advance, it's a somewhat anomalous movement in Mexico because [00:01:00] it has practically won all its battles, it has stopped the two airports, it has freed its prisoners and now it has managed to protect the territory.And today they are faced with a new challenge, which is to be a local government, right? So, in all of them they have triumphed in the end, despite the enormous costs, because they have suffered from repression, from persecution, from the precariousness in which many of their members live. But I think they are doing very well.Chris: Yeah, wow, well, what a great, what a beautiful result, right? Cesar, it seems that a lot of your work is based on what we can call the conversion of nature into capital, or at least that's how theorists have traditionally described it. I'd like to ask, how do you see that happening in the world of tourism, the conversion of nature into capital to, to start with, to give us a [00:02:00] basis to follow?Cesar: Yes, well, I have to say that I have also tried to study or theorize. When we theorize, we make generalizations. Theory is a generalization in order to be able to dialogue in different contexts, in different cases, otherwise each case of course is totally different from the other due to its historicity, its locality, its particularity.When we theorize, we try to make a generalization that is valid for many cases. So, and that allows us to dialogue and think about many with the same way of naming and conceptualizing. So, I have done this work of conceptualization and theorization in the idea of how to try to understand how capital is effectively deployed territorially. Generally, we think of capital only as monetary relations, as investments and as profits, in fact, we compensate capital as, the [00:03:00] thing, money, in any case, as material wealth, merchandise, it can be clothes, it can be cars, but in general, capital is a process. That is what Marx proposes, and the process is how people organize themselves, organize work, some work for others and how they effectively take from nature what they need to produce new merchandise or new use values, which is what, utility is what Marx calls it.In this sense, producing many use values necessarily requires some connection with nature. Marx calls this connection social metabolism because it is a connection not only because you take what you need, the materials, so to speak, some call them resources in economics. Generally in political ecology or in agroecology we call them natural goods [00:04:00] . Because they are not things but simply resources that are there available to be spent. And this connection, which has been developed even further today by some theorists who have followed Marx's idea of social metabolism, propose, following also some ideas of Marx, that it is the way to organize ourselves, to organize work.Work is the link with nature and this link is at the same time an exchange of matter and energy with local ecosystems. This exchange is more commonly called metabolism.So, I say all this because it is very important to think about how what we call the economy develops certain forms of activity, of material work and not only of monetary and monetary exchanges, because sometimes it seems that an activity gives a lot of profits and it could be, taking, for example, from nature, [00:05:00] too many natural goods, even though it actually produces a lot of monetary profits.And in that sense, what I have been studying is precisely how capital is deployed, looking, so to speak, for what it needs from ecosystems, but sometimes it does not need everything from ecosystems, sometimes it does need the entire ecosystem, which is what I am going to explain very quickly now.But in other cases, he needs only one of the natural resources, he needs land to cultivate and then he monopolizes it either by buying, or by dispossessing, or by renting the land. On the other hand, he may not need the soil to produce, not only does he need the land to produce, but he also needs that land to have a climate.This seems to be not so common sense. All farmers are much clearer about it, but it is clear that in certain areas certain species are found and in others, for example in cold places, they are found more because forest production and therefore production, pine and eucalyptus are grown. And in the tropics, fruits are grown .So economic investments that we could call capital, but that capital is a process as I said, reorganizes the workers, the workers. It also organizes the relationship with nature or reorganizes it. So, I always give these examples because they are very illustrative of what happens, for example, if there are more investments to cultivate, for wood production. Production, obviously, those who invest require their profit quickly. So you have to invest and have profits. You have to invest and sell the wood quickly, for example. Therefore, the species that grow the fastest are cultivated .And because they grow faster, they need more water. If they need more water, they deplete the aquifers. Here we have a direct consequence of human organisation in nature, in how to reorganise it because it replaces the native forest and replaces it with species that can only be sold, in this case, pine and eucalyptus.It is clear that, as in the past, time is reorganized, for example, for workers. If there are all the workers in the forestry industry who are offered a type of work and the relationship with water, with local ecosystems and with the species that are cultivated, there is the whole circuit of what is organized.So when we think about investments, we are not generally thinking about what is behind them. So we could follow the production of a car, the production of cotton for our clothes, the production of glass, the production of iron, of plastics, everything can be thought of like that. And also within [00:08:00] Of the forms of deployment of nature, I have thought that there is sometimes, there is another form that I call tourist bio-commodification, which is monopolizing entire ecosystems to put them, so to speak, to put whales, to put alligators to work, which is a way of saying it in the sense of land rent, ecosystem rent and above all, the great industry that is built around tourist enclaves.All of this constitutes a new relationship with nature, which is, I think, what we are going to be discussing in your program, because it does not modify or not only has tourism been generally seen as a benevolent industry because it does not have chimneys. It is very different, for example, from the oil industry, which is the one we generally think is the only dirty one.But the tourism industry is [00:09:00] an industry. The thing is that it is a service industry. It is also a global industry. It is also monopolistic. In other words, it is concentrated in a few corporations and it changes, of course, the way we organize ourselves around ecosystems.Chris: Wow. It's gotten me thinking a lot about how things that seem like tours could perhaps be promoted as ecological or eco-friendly, like hikes in the forest or even those tours on the sea, in the Yucatan or here in Oaxaca to go just to see the whales or turtles, etc. Is that kind of what you're talking about?Cesar: Yes. Now it must be said that these services that you generally mention, which are sometimes called eco-tourism, are those with the lowest [00:10:00] production of value or rather, they do not produce value, but rather there is only monetary exchange.But the ones that have the greatest value production are the enormous global infrastructure, the hotels and the airlines. And these are obviously controlled by the big corporations and have a gigantic impact. That is, when we think that we are going to do an activity in Oaxaca, for example, as you say, and that we are seeing a very nice activity of reproduction of the life of turtles. We are not thinking about the whole chain of goods, which is a chain of services that also has not only our ecological footprint, but also how investments reorder the territories.In Mexico, for example, around the beginning of the 21st century, we went from 7 million international tourists to 30 or 35 million.That is, in 20 years, it has practically tripled [00:11:00] volume of tourists. Now, these tourists don't, in addition, we always think that even governments , even the last government, have promoted tourism even more, because it is supposed to be totally beneficial, because obviously they bring an economic spillover to places that are generally also poor.But the problem with this perception is that we are not, perhaps sometimes, having a critical perspective where a division of social labor and a division of nature and who has access to it and for what purpose is evidently also being formed. It is the global elites, that is, also the salaried workers of the north, who have greater resources and greater economic security , who have more free time and also more resources to access leisure and entertainment.The lower classes do not. So there is an entry division by the [00:12:00] money, for access, who can access the first, free time. But not everyone who has free time has access to leisure, entertainment and tourist services. So, there is a double division here, a class division, Now, looking at it this way, we see that ecosystems are not simply used by everyone in an equal way, but that some have more access and others do not. Or some have more access. gradually and others much more sporadically, whic

British photographer Mike Abrahams has worked as a freelance photographer for over 40 years having become renowned for his sensitive eye in documenting the lives of ordinary people often in extraordinary situations.In 1981 he was a cofounder of Network Photographers the Internationally renowned picture agency and his work has taken him around the world. His photographs have been published in all the major international news media. In 2024, Mike's much anticipated book This Was Then, was published by Bluecoat Press and has been described as a lyrical portrait of humanity in adverse circumstances. It features photographs taken from 1973 to 2001 in cities from Liverpool to Glasgow. Blackburn to Bradford, Northern Ireland to the coalfields of Kent and London.Mike's work on Faith - A Journey with Those Who Believe, published in 2000, was the culmination of five years work, documenting the extremes and passion of Christian devotion throughout fourteen countries. Awards for this work included the World Press Photo Award in 2000, and the book Faith designed by Browns, was a finalist in the Design Week - Editorial Design: Books. It has been widely exhibited throughout the UK and Europe.Colin Jacobson, picture editor of The Independent Magazine, described Mike's body of work from the conflict in Northern Ireland and published in the book Still War, in 1989 as "Documentary photography at its best - imaginative, comprehensive, confident and concerned". His coverage of the troubles in Northern Ireland was the subjects of a Television documentary Moving Stills.Other important assignments have included coverage of the division of Cyprus, Migrant labour in Southern Africa, the Intifada in the Occupied Territories, the Berlin Wall, the collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe, the rise in the influence of the religious in Israeli politics, the Cult of Assad in Syria, Northern Ireland and documenting Another Britain. In episode 251, Mike discusses, among other things:Discovering the darkroom at 12Growing up in post-war LiverpoolThe infamous Toxteth Riots of the early 80sNetwork Photographers agencyThe story of the IRA bombingHis interest in religious ceremonyGoing back to his archive of British work for the new book, This Was ThenThe impetus behind itThe sustainability of of a long-term careerPersonal work that he is still doingReferenced:Eugene SmithDavid Douglas DuncanLarry BurrowsTim PageNetwork PhotographersJohn SturrockMike GoldwaterJudah PassowChris DaviesLaurie SparhamSteve BenbowMartin SlavinBarry LewisRed SaundersSid SheltonRoger HutchinsChris KillipDaniel MeadowsPeter MarlowPeter Van AgtmaelWebsite | Instagram“You can go here, there and everywhere, and I have travelled a lot and it's been interesting and fascinating, but you're always the outsider coming in. You don't really know the story. It's glamorous, it's exotic, it's fascinating, but I think it's much harder to photograph your home turf. You come to it with quite an honest perspective. It's the land you're living in, you're conscious of the differences in the country between the north, south, east and west, the regions… it's kind of embedded in you, the differences.” Become a full tier 1 member here to access exclusive additional subscriber-only content and the full archive of previous episodes for £5 per month.For the tier 2 archive-only membership, to access the full library of past episodes for £3 per month, go here.Subscribe to my weekly newsletter here for everything A Small Voice related and much more besides.Follow me on Instagram here.Build Yourself a Squarespace Website video course here.

What happens when music and psychoanalysis occupy the same creative headspace? This week on Lost and Sound, I chat with Ezra Feinberg—composer, guitarist, and practicing psychoanalyst—about the deep interplay between experimental music, the subconscious mind, and the subtle forces that shape creativity.We dive into Soft Power, his latest album—a lush, hypnotic fusion of minimalism, kosmische music, ambient soundscapes, and psychedelic influences and one of my favourite albums of the last 12 months. We talk about how intention and perception collide in music, whether the emotions a listener feels mirror what the artist originally set out to express, and what it means to truly trust the creative process.Ezra shares how his twin worlds of music and psychoanalysis aren't as far apart as they seem, touching on problem-solving, patience, and artistic intuition. We explore the realities of navigating a career in underground music alongside parenthood, and how New York's evolving music scene has shaped his journey.Plus, we get into formative influences, spontaneous collaborations and the long game of making music on your own terms. A conversation about sound, time, and the quiet forces that shape creativity.If you're enjoying Lost and Sound, please do subscribe and leave a rating or review on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you listen. It really helps to spread the word and support Lost and Sound.Ezra Feinberg on InstagramSoft Power by Ezra Feinberg is available on Tonal Union, Bandcamp.Follow me on Instagram at PaulhanfordLost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-TechnicaMy BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.My book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

Why is reforming capitalism so essential? In the latest issue of Liberties Quarterly, Tim Wu argues that unregulated capitalism not only leads to economic monopolies, but also drives populist anger and authoritarian politics. In “The Real Road to Serfdom”, Wu advocates for "decentralized capitalism" with distributed economic power, citing examples from Scandinavia and East Asia. Drawing from his experience in the Biden administration's antitrust efforts, he emphasizes the importance of preventing industry concentration. Wu expresses concern about big tech's growing political influence and argues that challenging monopolies is critical for fostering innovation and maintaining economic progress in the United States.Here are the 5 KEEN ON AMERICA takeaways from our interview with Tim Wu:* Historical Parallels: Wu sees concerning parallels between our current era and the 1930s, characterized by concentrated economic power, fragile economic conditions, and the rise of populist leaders. He suggests we're in a period where leaders are moving beyond winning elections to attempting to alter constitutional frameworks.* The Monopoly-Autocracy Connection: Wu argues there's a dangerous cycle where monopolies create economic inequality, which generates populist anger, which then enables authoritarian leaders to rise to power. He cites Hugo Chavez as a pioneer of this modern autocratic model that leaders like Trump have followed.* Decentralized Capitalism: Wu advocates for an economic system with multiple centers of distributed economic power, rather than just a few giant companies accumulating wealth. He points to Denmark, Taiwan, and post-WWII East Asia as successful examples of more balanced economic structures.* Antitrust Legacy: Wu believes the Biden administration's antitrust enforcement efforts have created lasting changes in legal standards and public consciousness that won't be easily reversed. He emphasizes that challenging monopolies is crucial for maintaining innovation and preventing industry stagnation.* Big Tech and Power: Wu expresses concern about big tech companies' growing political influence, comparing it to historical examples like AT&T and IBM. He's particularly worried about AI potentially reinforcing existing power structures rather than democratizing opportunities.Complete Transcript: Tim Wu on The Real Road to SerfdomAndrew Keen: Hello, everybody. We live in very strange times. That's no exaggeration. Yesterday, we had Nick Bryant on the show, the author of The Forever War. He was the BBC's man in Washington, DC for a long time. In our conversation, Nick suggested that we're living in really historic times, equivalent to the fall of the Berlin Wall, 9/11, perhaps even the beginnings of the Second World War.My guest today, like Nick, is a deep thinker. Tim Wu will be very well known to you for many things, including his book, The Attention Merchants. He was involved in the Biden White House, teaches law at Columbia University, and much more. He has a new book coming out later in the year on November 4th, The Age of Extraction. He has a very interesting essay in this issue of Liberties, the quarterly magazine of ideas, called "The Real Road to Serfdom."Tim had a couple of interesting tweets in the last couple of days, one comparing the behavior of President Trump to Germany's 1933 enabling act. And when it comes to Ukraine, Tim wrote, "How does the GOP feel about their president's evident plan to forfeit the Cold War?" Tim Wu is joining us from his home in the village of Manhattan. Tim, welcome. Before we get to your excellent essay in Liberties, how would you historicize what we're living through at the moment?Tim Wu: I think the 1930s are not the wrong way to look at it. Prior to that period, you had this extraordinary concentration of economic power in a very fragile environment. A lot of countries had experienced an enormous crash and you had the rise of populist leaders, with Mussolini being the pioneer of the model. This has been going on for at least 5 or 6 years now. We're in that middle period where it's moving away from people just winning elections to trying to really alter the constitution of their country. So I think the mid-30s is probably about right.Andrew Keen: You were involved in the Biden administration. You were one of the major thinkers when it came to antitrust. Have you been surprised with what's happened since Biden left office? The speed, the radicalness of this Trump administration?Tim Wu: Yes, because I expected something more like the first Trump administration, which was more of a show with a lot of flash but poor execution. This time around, the execution is also poor but more effective. I didn't fully expect that Elon Musk would actually be a government official at this point and that he'd have this sort of vandalism project going on. The fact they won all of the houses of Congress was part of the problem and has made the effort go faster.Andrew Keen: You talk about Musk. We've done many shows on Musk's role in all this and the seeming arrival of Silicon Valley or a certain version of Silicon Valley in Washington, DC. You're familiar with both worlds, the world of big tech and Silicon Valley and Washington. Is that your historical reading that these two worlds are coming together in this second Trump administration?Tim Wu: It's very natural for economic power to start to seek political power. It follows from the basic view of monopoly as a creature that wants to defend itself, and the second observation that the most effective means of self-defense is control of government. If you follow that very simple logic, it stands to reason that the most powerful economic entities would try to gain control of government.I want to talk about the next five years. The tech industry is following the lead of Palantir and Peter Thiel, who were pioneers in thinking that instead of trying to avoid government, they should try to control it. I think that is the obvious move over the next four years.Andrew Keen: I've been reading your excellent essay in Liberties, "The Real Road to Serfdom." When did you write it? It seems particularly pertinent this week, although of course you didn't write it knowing exactly what was going to be happening with Musk and Washington DC and Trump and Ukraine.Tim Wu: I wrote it about two years ago when I got out of the White House. The themes are trying to get at eternal issues about the dangers of economic power and concentrated economic power and its unaccountability. If it made predictions that are starting to come true, I don't know if that's good or bad.Andrew Keen: "The Real Road to Serfdom" is, of course, a reference to the Hayek book "The Road to Serfdom." Did you consciously use that title with reference to Hayek, or was that a Liberties decision?Tim Wu: That was my decision. At that point, and I may still write this, I was thinking of writing a book just called "The Real Road to Serfdom." I am both fascinated and a fan of Hayek in certain ways. I think he nailed certain things exactly right but makes big errors at the same time.To his credit, Hayek was very critical of monopoly and very critical of the role of the state in reinforcing monopoly. But he had an almost naivete about what powerful, unaccountable private economic entities would do with their power. That's essentially my criticism.Andrew Keen: In 2018, you wrote a book, "The Curse of Bigness." And in a way, this is an essay against bigness, but it's written—please correct me if I'm wrong—I read it as a critique of the left, suggesting that there were times in the essay, if you're reading it blind, you could have been reading Hayek in its critique of Marx and centralization and Lenin and Stalin and the Ukrainian famines. Is the message in the book, Tim—is your audience a progressive audience? Are you saying that it's a mistake to rely on bigness, so to speak, the state as a redistributive platform?Tim Wu: Not entirely. I'm very critical of communist planned economies, and that's part of it. But it's mainly a critique of libertarian faith in private economic power or sort of the blindness to the dangers of it.My basic thesis in "The Real Road to Serfdom" is that free market economies will tend to monopolize. Once monopoly power is achieved, it tends to set off a strong desire to extract as much wealth from the rest of the economy as it can, creating something closer to a feudal-type economy with an underclass. That tends to create a huge amount of resentment and populist anger, and democracies have to respond to that anger.The libertarian answer of saying that's fine, this problem will go away, is a terrible answer. History suggests that what happens instead is if democracy doesn't do anything, the state takes over, usually on the back of a populist strongman. It could be a communist, could be fascist, could be just a random authoritarian like in South America.I guess I'd say it's a critique of both the right and the left—the right for being blind to the dangers of concentrated economic power, and the left, especially the communist left, for idolizing the takeover of vital functions by a giant state, which has a track record as bad, if not worse, than purely private power.Andrew Keen: You bring up Hugo Chavez in the essay, the now departed Venezuelan strongman. You're obviously no great fan of his, but you do seem to suggest that Chavez, like so many other authoritarians, built his popularity on the truth of people's suffering. Is that fair?Tim Wu: That is very fair. In the 90s, when Chavez first came to power through popular election, everyone was mystified and thought he was some throwback to the dictators of the 60s and 70s. But he turned out to be a pioneer of our future, of the new form of autocrat, who appealed to the unfairness of the economy post-globalization.Leaders like Hungary's Viktor Orbán, and certainly Donald Trump, are direct descendants of Hugo Chavez in their approach. They follow the same playbook, appealing to the same kind of pain and suffering, promising to act for the people as opposed to the elites, the foreigners, and the immigrants. Chavez is also a cautionary lesson. He started in a way which the population liked—he lowered gas prices, gave away money, nationalized industry. He was very popular. But then like most autocrats, he eventually turned the money to himself and destroyed his own country.Andrew Keen: Why are autocrats like Chavez and perhaps Trump so much better at capturing that anger than Democrats like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris?Tim Wu: People who are outside the system like Chavez are able to tap into resentment and anger in a way which is less diluted by their direct information environment and their colleagues. Anyone who hangs around Washington, DC for a long time becomes more muted and careful. They lose credibility.That said, the fact that populist strongmen take over countries in distress suggests we need to avoid that level of economic distress in the first place and protect the middle class. Happy, contented middle-class countries don't tend to see the rise of authoritarian dictators. There isn't some Danish version of Hugo Chavez in the running right now.Andrew Keen: You bring up Denmark. Denmark always comes up in these kinds of conversations. What's admirable about your essay is you mostly don't fall into the Denmark trap of simply saying, "Why don't we all become like Denmark?" But at the same time, you acknowledge that the Danish model is attractive, suggesting we've misunderstood it or treated it superficially. What can and can't we learn from the Danish model?Tim Wu: American liberals often misunderstand the lesson of Scandinavia and other countries that have strong, prosperous middle classes like Taiwan, Japan, and Korea. In Scandinavia's case, the go-to explanation is that it's just the liberals' favorite set of policies—high taxation, strong social support systems. But I think the structure of those economies is much more important.They have what Jacob Hacker calls very strong "pre-distribution." They've avoided just having a small set of monopolists who make all the money and then hopefully hand it out to other people. It goes back to their land reform in the early 19th century, where they set up a very different kind of economy with a broad distribution of productive assets.If I'm trying to promote a philosophy in this book, it's for people who are fed up with the excesses of laissez-faire capitalism and think it leads to autocracy, but who are also no fans of communism or socialism. Just saying "let people pile up money and we'll tax it later" is not going to work. What you need is an economy structured with multiple centers of distributed economic power.Andrew Keen: The term that seems to summarize that in the essay is "architecture of parity." It's a bit clunky, but is that the best way to sum up your thinking?Tim Wu: I'm working on the terminology. Architecture of equality, parity, decentralized capitalism, distribution—these are all terms trying to capture it. It's more of a 19th century form of Christian or Catholic economics. People are grasping for the right word for an economic system that doesn't rely on just a few giant companies taking money from everybody and hopefully redistributing it. That model is broken and has a dangerous tendency to lead to toxicity. We need a better capitalism. An alternative title for this piece could have been "Saving Capitalism from Itself."Andrew Keen: Your name is most associated with tech and your critique of big tech. Does this get beyond big tech? Are there other sectors of the economy you're interested in fixing and reforming?Tim Wu: Absolutely. Silicon Valley is the most obvious and easiest entry point to talk about concentrated economic power. You can see the dependence on a small number of platforms that have earnings and profits far beyond what anyone imagined possible. But we're talking about an economy-wide, almost global set of problems.Some industries are worse. The meat processing industry in the United States is horrendously concentrated—it takes all the money from farmers, charges us too much for meat, and keeps it for itself. There are many industries where people are looking for something to understand or believe in that's different than socialism but different than this libertarian capitalism that ends up bankrupting people. Tech is the easiest way to talk about it, but not the be-all and end-all of my interest.Andrew Keen: Are there other examples where we're beginning to see decentralized capitalism? The essay was very strong on the critique, but I found fewer examples of decentralized capitalism in practice outside maybe Denmark in the 2020s.Tim Wu: East Asia post-World War II is a strong example of success. While no economy is purely small businesses, although Taiwan comes close, if you look at the East Asian story after World War II, one of the big features was an effort to reform land, give land to peasants, and create a landowning class to replace the feudal system. They had huge entrepreneurism, especially in Korea and Taiwan, less in Japan. This built a strong and prosperous middle and upper middle class.Japan has gone through hard times—they let their companies get too big and they stagnated. But Korea and Taiwan have gone from being third world economies to Taiwan now being wealthier per capita than Japan. The United States is another strong example, vacillating between being very big and very small. Even at its biggest, it still has a strong entrepreneurial culture and sectors with many small entities. Germany is another good example. There's no perfect version, but what I'm saying is that the model of monopolized economies and just having a few winners and hoping that anybody else can get tax payments is really a losing proposition.Andrew Keen: You were on Chris Hayes recently talking about antitrust. You're one of America's leading thinkers on antitrust and were brought into the Biden administration on the antitrust front. Is antitrust then the heart of the matter? Is this really the key to decentralizing capitalism?Tim Wu: I think it's a big tool, one of the tools of managing the economy. It works by preventing industries from merging their way into monopoly and keeps a careful eye on structure. In the same way that no one would say interest rates are the be-all and end-all of monetary policy, when we're talking about structural policy, having antitrust law actively preventing overconcentration is important.In the White House itself, we spent a lot of time trying to get other agencies to prevent their sectors, whether healthcare or transportation, from becoming overly monopolized and extractive. You can have many parts of the government involved—the antitrust agencies are key, but they're not the only solution.Andrew Keen: You wrote an interesting piece for The Atlantic about Biden's antitrust initiatives. You said the outgoing president's legacy of revived antitrust enforcement won't be easy to undo. Trump is very good at breaking things. Why is it going to be hard to undo? Lina Khan's gone—the woman who seems to unite all of Silicon Valley in their dislike of her. What did Biden do to protect antitrust legislation?Tim Wu: The legal patterns have changed and the cases are ongoing. But I think more important is a change of consciousness and ideology and change in popular support. I don't think there is great support for letting big tech do whatever they want without oversight. There are people who believe in that and some of them have influence in this administration, but there's been a real change in consciousness.I note that the Federal Trade Commission has already announced that it's going to stick with the Biden administration's merger rules, and my strong sense is the Department of Justice will do the same. There are certain things that Trump did that we stuck with in the Biden administration because they were popular—the most obvious being the turn toward China. Going back to the Bush era approach of never bothering any monopolies, I just don't think there's an appetite for it.Andrew Keen: Why is Lina Khan so unpopular in Silicon Valley?Tim Wu: It's interesting. I'm not usually one to attribute things to sexism, but the Justice Department brought more cases against big tech than she did. Jonathan Kanter, who ran antitrust at Justice, won the case against Google. His firm was trying to break up Google. They may still do it, but somehow Lina Khan became the face of it. I think because she's young and a woman—I don't know why Jonathan Kanter didn't become the symbol in the same way.Andrew Keen: You bring up the AT&T and IBM cases in the US tech narrative in the essay, suggesting that we can learn a great deal from them. What can we learn from those cases?Tim Wu: The United States from the 70s through the 2010s was an extraordinarily innovative place and did amazing things in the tech industry. An important part of that was challenging the big IBM and AT&T monopolies. AT&T was broken into eight pieces. IBM was forced to begin selling its software separately and opened up the software markets to what became a new software industry.AT&T earlier had been forced to license the transistor, which opened up the semiconductor industry and to some degree the computing industry, and had to stay out of computing. The government intervened pretty forcefully—a form of industrial policy to weaken its tech monopolies. The lesson is that we need to do the same thing right now.Some people will ask about China, but I think the United States has always done best when it constantly challenges established power and creates room for entrepreneurs to take their shot. I want very much for the new AI companies to challenge the main tech platforms and see what comes of that, as opposed to becoming a stagnant industry. Everyone says nothing can become stagnant, but the aerospace industry was pretty quick-moving in the 60s, and now you have Boeing and Airbus sitting there. It's very easy for a tech industry to stagnate, and attacking monopolists is the best way to prevent that.Andrew Keen: You mentioned Google earlier. You had an interesting op-ed in The New York Times last year about what we should do about Google. My wife is head of litigation at Google, so I'm not entirely disinterested. I also have a career as a critic of Google. If Kent Walker was here, he would acknowledge some of the things he was saying. But he would say Google still innovates—Google hasn't become Boeing. It's innovating in AI, in self-driving cars, it's shifting search. Would he be entirely wrong?Tim Wu: No, he wouldn't be entirely wrong. In the same way that IBM kept going, AT&T kept going. What you want in tech industries is a fair fight. The problem with Google isn't that they're investing in AI or trying to build self-driving cars—that's great. The problem is that they were paying over $20 billion a year to Apple for a promise not to compete in search. Through control of the browsers and many other things, they were trying to make sure they could never be dislodged.My view of the economics is monopolists need to always be a little insecure. They need to be in a position where they can be challenged. That happens—there are companies who, like AT&T in the 70s or 60s, felt they were immune. It took the government to make space. I think it's very important for there to be opportunities to challenge the big guys and try to seize the pie.Andrew Keen: I'm curious where you are on Section 230. Google won their Supreme Court case when it came to Section 230. In this sense, I'm guessing you view Google as being on the side of the good guys.Tim Wu: Section 230 is interesting. In the early days of the Internet, it was an important infant industry protection. It was an insulation that was vital to get those little companies at the time to give them an opportunity to grow and build business models, because if you're being sued by billions of people, you can't really do too much.Section 230 was originally designed to protect people like AOL, who ran user forums and had millions of people discussing—kind of like Reddit. I think as Google and companies like Facebook became active in promoting materials and became more like media companies, the case for an absolutist Section 230 became a lot weaker. The law didn't really change but the companies did.Andrew Keen: You wrote the essay "The Real Road to Serfdom" a couple of years ago. You also talked earlier about AI. There's not a lot of AI in this, but 50% of all the investment in technology over the last year was in AI, and most of that has gone into these huge platforms—OpenAI, Anthropic, Google Gemini. Is AI now the central theater, both in the Road to Serfdom and in liberating ourselves from big tech?Tim Wu: Two years ago when I was writing this, I was determined not to say anything that would look stupid about AI later. There's a lot more on what I think about AI in my new book coming in November.I see AI as a classic potential successor technology. It obviously is the most significant successor to the web and the mass Internet of 20 years ago in terms of having potential to displace things like search and change the way people do various forms of productivity. How technology plays out depends a lot on the economic structure. If you think about a technology like the cotton gin, it didn't automatically lead to broad flourishing, but reinforced plantation slavery.What I hope happens with AI is that it sets off more competition and destabilization for some of the tech platforms as opposed to reinforcing their advantage and locking them in forever. I don't know if we know what's going to happen right now. I think it's extremely important that OpenAI stays separate from the existing tech companies, because if this just becomes the same players absorbing technology, that sounds a lot like the darker chapters in US tech history.Andrew Keen: And what about the power of AI to liberate ourselves from our brain power as the next industrial revolution? When I was reading the essay, I thought it would be a very good model, both as a warning and in terms of offering potential for us to create this new architecture of parity. Because the technology in itself, in theory at least, is one of parity—one of democratizing brainpower.Tim Wu: Yes, I agree it has extraordinary potential. Things can go in two directions. The Industrial Revolution is one example where you had more of a top-down centralization of the means of production that was very bad for many people initially, though there were longer-term gains.I would hope AI would be something more like the PC revolution in the 80s and 90s, which did augment individual humanity as opposed to collective enterprise. It allowed people to do things like start their own travel agency or accounting firm with just a computer. I am interested and bullish on the potential of AI to empower smaller units, but I'm concerned it will be used to reinforce existing economic structures. The jury's out—the future will tell us. Just hoping it's going to make humanity better is not going to be the best answer.Andrew Keen: When you were writing this essay, Web3 was still in vogue then—the idea of blockchain and crypto decentralizing the economy. But I didn't see any references to Web3 and the role of technology in democratizing capitalism in terms of the architecture of corporations. Are you skeptical of the Web3 ideology?Tim Wu: The essay had its limits since I was also talking about 18th century Denmark. I have a lot more on blockchain and Web3 in the book. The challenge with crypto and Bitcoin is that it both over-promises and delivers something. I've been very interested in crypto and blockchain for a long time. The challenge it's had is constantly promising to decentralize great systems and failing, then people stealing billions of dollars and ending up in prison.It has a dubious track record, but it does have this core potential for a certain class of people to earn money. I'm always in favor of anything that is an alternative means of earning money. There are people who made money on it. I just think it's failed to execute on its promises. Blockchain in particular has failed to be a real challenge to web technologies.Andrew Keen: As you say, Hayek inspired the book and in some sense this is intellectual. The father of decentralization in ideological terms was E.F. Schumacher. I don't think you reference him, but do you think there has been much thinking since Schumacher on the value of smallness and decentralized architectures? What do people like yourself add to what Schumacher missed in his critique of bigness?Tim Wu: Schumacher is a good example. Rawls is actually under-recognized as being interested in these things. I see myself as writing in the tradition of those figures and trying to pursue a political economy that values a more balanced economy and small production.Hopefully what I add is a level of institutional experience and practicality that was missing. Rawls is slightly unfair because he's a philosopher, but his model doesn't include firms—it's just individuals. So it's all about balancing between poor people and rich people when obviously economic power is also held by corporations.I'm trying to create more flesh on the bones of the "small is beautiful" philosophy and political economy that is less starry-eyed and more realistic. I'm putting forward the point that you're not sacrificing growth and you're taking less political risk with a more balanced economy. There's an adulation of bigness in our time—exciting big companies are glamorous. But long-term prosperity does better when you have more centers, a more balanced system. I'm not an ultra-centralist suggesting we should live in mud huts, but I do think the worship of monopoly is very similar to the worship of autocracy and is dangerous.Andrew Keen: Much to discuss. Tim Wu, thank you so much. The author of "The Real Road to Serfdom," fascinating essay in this month's issue of Liberties. I know "The Age of Extraction" will be coming out on November 10th.Tim Wu: In England and US at the same time.Andrew Keen: We'll get you back on the show. Fascinating conversation, Tim. Thank you so much.Hailed as the “architect” of the Biden administration's competition and antitrust policies, Tim Wu writes and teaches about private power and related topics. First known for coining the term “net neutrality” in 2002, in recent years Wu has been a leader in the revitalization of American antitrust and has taken a particular focus on the growing power of the big tech platforms. In 2021, he was appointed to serve in the White House as special assistant to the president for technology and competition policy. A professor at Columbia Law School since 2006, Wu has also held posts in public service. He was enforcement counsel in the New York Attorney General's Office, worked on competition policy for the National Economic Council during the Barack Obama administration, and worked in antitrust enforcement at the Federal Trade Commission. In 2014, Wu was a Democratic primary candidate for lieutenant governor of New York. In his most recent book, The Curse of Bigness: Antitrust in the New Gilded Age (2018), he argues that corporate and industrial concentration can lead to the rise of populism, nationalism, and extremist politicians. His previous books include The Attention Merchants: The Epic Scramble to Get Inside Our Heads (2016), The Master Switch: The Rise and Fall of Information Empires (2010), and Who Controls the Internet?: Illusions of a Borderless World (2006), which he co-authored with Jack Goldsmith. Wu was a contributing opinion writer for The New York Times and also has written for Slate, The New Yorker, and The Washington Post. He once explained the concept of net neutrality to late-night host Stephen Colbert while he rode a rollercoaster. He has been named one of America's 100 most influential lawyers by the National Law Journal; has made Politico's list of 50 most influential figures in American politics (more than once); and has been included in the Scientific American 50 of policy leadership. Wu is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. He served as a law clerk for Justice Stephen Breyer of the U.S. Supreme Court and Judge Richard Posner of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit.Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting the daily KEEN ON show, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy interview series. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

On 29 March 1974, Czesław Kukuczka stormed into the Polish embassy in East Berlin, threatening to detonate a bomb unless he was allowed to escape to the West. Shot at point-blank range while trying to cross the Berlin Wall, the identity of Kukuczka's killer remained a mystery for decades - until archive documents led investigators to former Stasi officer Martin Naumann. Naumann's historic trial made him one of the first former Stasi officers to be convicted of murder.Dan Hardoon speaks to Dr Filip Gańczak, the historian whose work helped bring Kukuczka's killer to justice.Eye-witness accounts brought to life by archive. Witness History is for those fascinated by the past. We take you to the events that have shaped our world through the eyes of the people who were there. For nine minutes every day, we take you back in time and all over the world, to examine wars, coups, scientific discoveries, cultural moments and much more. Recent episodes explore everything from football in Brazil, the history of the ‘Indian Titanic' and the invention of air fryers, to Public Enemy's Fight The Power, subway art and the political crisis in Georgia. We look at the lives of some of the most famous leaders, artists, scientists and personalities in history, including: visionary architect Antoni Gaudi and the design of the Sagrada Familia; Michael Jordan and his bespoke Nike trainers; Princess Diana at the Taj Mahal; and Görel Hanser, manager of legendary Swedish pop band Abba on the influence they've had on the music industry. You can learn all about fascinating and surprising stories, such as the time an Iraqi journalist hurled his shoes at the President of the United States in protest of America's occupation of Iraq; the creation of the Hollywood commercial that changed advertising forever; and the ascent of the first Aboriginal MP.(Photo: The Berlin Wall. Credit: Owen Franken/Corbis via Getty Images)

Did you know that Helmut Kohl, the German Chancellor (1982-99), implemented a planto deport Turkish immigrant back to Türkiye?Mr. Elon Musk & Vice Pres. JD Vance have endorsed the AfD - Germany's anti-immigrant, Islamophobic, far-right party. And although the AfD commands 20% of the German vote, other parties refuse to form a coalition government with it. In this interview, I discuss the following with my guest: ►Germany's economic headwinds and growing budget challenges ►the rise of the AfD in German elections►Why is the AfD being investigated by German authorities? ►What is JAfD? ►How Germany's unification was more like an acquisition than a merger ►For Germans, does the Berlin Wall still exist? ►Roots of racism in East Germany compared to West Germany►Was the post-WWII de-Nazification a success? ►What is PEGIDA? ►Which ethnic groups commit the most crime in Germany? ►Who is Gerhard Rex Lauck? ►How did America export Nazi propaganda back to Germany? ►What is Ausländer? ►What was Helmut Kohl's plan for exporting Turks? ►Why were Turks called "guest" workers? ►What is Almanci?

Sunday's crunch elections in Germany are coming at perhaps the most pivotal moment since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Back then, it was about making a success of reunification. Now comes a reckoning over the German model that ensued. Under threat is the kind of global free trade that powers Germany's export-driven economy. Instead we're seeing Donald Trump's tariffs, a Russian aggression that's inching closer in not-so-far-off Ukraine and an ageing population that needs to replenish its workforce, but doesn't want more migrants. Seizing on the mood of a nation in recession is the far-right AfD, which polls suggest could finish second behind the Christian Democrats. With the US vice president last Friday passing up a chance to meet the incumbent centre-left chancellor Olaf Scholz, instead seeing AfD leader Alice Weidel on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference, voters are wondering if the usual warnings of foreign election meddling concern this time the United States more than usual suspect Russia.The pressure is on in a nation where lead candidates know they that can't bash their rivals too hard. After all, they know that come Monday morning when the ballots are counted, they might have to call them for coalition-building. Could this election be different? If so, how?Produced by Rebecca Gnignati, Elisa Amiri, Ilayda Habip.Watch moreA model in crisis: Germans head to polls amid economic downturn

How historic are Trump 2.0's first few weeks? For the veteran correspondent, Nick Bryant, the longtime BBC man in Washington DC, what the Trump regime has done in the first few weeks of his second administration is as historic as the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. It's the end of the America we haver known for the last seventy years, he says. Bryant describes Trump's rapprochement with Russia as Neville Chamberlain style appeasement and notes the dramatic shifts in U.S. foreign policy, particularly regarding Ukraine and European allies. He sees Trump's actions as revealing rather than changing America's true nature. Bryant also discusses the failures of the Dems, the role of Elon Musk in the administration, and structural changes to federal institutions. Despite all the upheaval, Bryant suggests this isn't so much "goodbye to America" as a revelation of the cynically isolationist forces that were always present in American society.Here are the five KEEN ON takeaways from our conversation with Nick Bryant:* Historic Transformation: Bryant sees Trump's second term as a pivotal moment in world history, comparable to the fall of the Berlin Wall, with rapid changes in global alliances and particularly in America's relationship with Russia, which he characterizes as "appeasement."* Democratic Party Crisis: He analyzes how the Democrats' failures stemmed from multiple factors - Biden's delayed exit, Kamala Harris's weak candidacy, and the lack of time to find a stronger replacement. While Trump's victory was significant, Bryant notes it wasn't a landslide.* Elon Musk's Unexpected Role: An unforeseen development Bryant didn't predict in his book was Musk's prominent position in Trump's second administration, describing it as almost a "co-presidency" following Trump's assassination attempt and Musk's subsequent endorsement of Trump.* Federal Government Transformation: Bryant observes that Trump's dismantling of federal institutions goes beyond typical Republican small-government approaches, potentially removing not just bureaucratic waste but crucial expertise and institutional knowledge.* Trump as Revealer, Not Changer: Perhaps most significantly, Bryant argues that Trump hasn't changed America but rather revealed its true nature - arguing that authoritarianism, political violence, and distrust of big government have always been present in American history. FULL TRANSCRIPT Andrew Keen: Hello, everybody. About eight months ago, we had a great show with the BBC's former Washington correspondent, Nick Bryant. His latest book, "The Forever War: America's Unending Conflict with Itself," predicted much of what's happening in the United States now. When you look at the headlines this week about the U.S.-Russia relationship changing in a head-spinning way, apparently laying the groundwork for ending the Ukrainian war, all sorts of different relations and tariffs and many other things in this new regime. Nick is joining us from Sydney, Australia, where he now lives. Nick, do you miss America?Nick Bryant: I covered the first Trump administration and it felt like a 25/8 job, not just 24/7. Trump 2.0 feels even more relentless—round-the-clock news forever. We're checking our phones to see what has happened next. People who read my book wouldn't be surprised by how Donald Trump is conducting his second term. But some things weren't on my bingo card, like Trump suggesting a U.S. takeover of Gaza. The rapprochement with Putin, which we should look on as an act of appeasement after his aggression in Ukraine, was very easy to predict.Andrew Keen: That's quite a sharp comment, Nick—an act of appeasement equivalent to Neville Chamberlain's umbrella.Nick Bryant: It was ironic that J.D. Vance made his speech at the Munich Security Conference. Munich was where Neville Chamberlain secured the Munich Agreement, which was seen as a terrible act of appeasement towards Nazi Germany. This moment feels historic—I would liken it to the fall of the Berlin Wall. We're seeing a complete upending of the world order.Back at the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, we were talking about the end of history—Francis Fukuyama's famous thesis suggesting the triumph of liberal democracy. Now, we're talking about the end of America as we've known it since World War II. You get these Berlin Wall moments like Trump saying there should be a U.S. takeover of Gaza. J.D. Vance's speech in Munich ruptures the transatlantic alliance, which has been the basis of America's global preeminence and European security since World War II.Then you've seen what's happened in Saudi Arabia with the meeting between the Russians and U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, completely resetting relations between Washington and Moscow. It's almost as if the invasions of Ukraine never happened. We're back to the situation during the Bush administration when George W. Bush famously met Vladimir Putin, looked into his soul, and gave him a clean bill of health. Things are moving at a hurtling pace, and it seems we're seeing the equivalent of a Berlin Wall tumbling every couple of days.Andrew Keen: That's quite dramatic for an experienced journalist like yourself to say. You don't exaggerate unnecessarily, Nick. It's astonishing. Nobody predicted this.Nick Bryant: When I first said this about three weeks ago, I had to think long and hard about whether the historical moments were equivalent. Two weeks on, I've got absolutely no doubt. We're seeing a massive change. European allies of America are now not only questioning whether the United States is a reliable ally—they're questioning whether the United States is an ally at all. Some are even raising the possibility that nations like Germany, the UK, and France will soon look upon America as an adversary.J.D. Vance's speech was very pointed, attacking European elitism and what he saw as denial of freedom of speech in Europe by governments, but not having a single word of criticism for Vladimir Putin. People are listening to the U.S. president, vice president, and others like Marco Rubio with their jaws on the ground. It's a very worrying moment for America's allies because they cannot look across the Atlantic anymore and see a president who will support them. Instead, they see an administration aligning itself with hard-right and far-right populist movements.Andrew Keen: The subtitle of your book was "America's Unending Conflict with Itself: The History Behind Trump in Advance." But America now—and I'm talking to you from San Francisco, where obviously there aren't a lot of Trump fans or J.D. Vance fans—seems in an odd, almost surreal way to be united. There were protests on Presidents Day earlier this week against Trump, calling him a tyrant. But is the thesis of your book about the forever war, America continually being divided between coastal elites and the hinterlands, Republicans and Democrats, still manifesting itself in late February 2025?Nick Bryant: Trump didn't win a landslide victory in the election. He won a significant victory, a decisive victory. It was hugely significant that he won the popular vote, which he didn't manage to do in 2016. But it wasn't a big win—he didn't win 50% of the popular vote. Sure, he won the seven battleground states, giving the sense of a massive victory, but it wasn't massive numerically.The divides in America are still there. The opposition has melted away at the moment with sporadic protests, but nothing really major. Don't be fooled into thinking America's forever wars have suddenly ended and Trump has won. The opposition will be back. The resistance will be back.I remember moments in the Obama administration when it looked like progressives had won every battle in America. I remember the day I went to South Carolina, to the funeral of the pastor killed in that terrible shooting in Charleston. Obama broke into "Amazing Grace"—it was almost for the first time in front of a black audience that he fully embraced the mantle of America's first African-American president. He flew back to Washington that night, and the White House was bathed in rainbow colors because the Supreme Court had made same-sex marriage legal across the country.It seemed in that moment that progressives were winning every fight. The Supreme Court also upheld the constitutionality of Obamacare. You assumed America's first black president would be followed by America's first female president. But what we were seeing in that summer of 2015 was actually the conservative backlash. Trump literally announced his presidential bid the day before that awful Charleston shooting. You can easily misread history at this moment. Sure, Trump looks dominant now, but don't be fooled. It wouldn't surprise me at all if in two years' time the Republicans end up losing the House of Representatives in the congressional midterm elections.Andrew Keen: When it comes to progressives, what do you make of the Democratic response, or perhaps the lack of response, to the failure of Kamala Harris? The huge amount of money, the uninspiring nature of her campaign, the fiasco over Biden—were these all accidental events or do they speak of a broader crisis on the left amongst progressives in America?Nick Bryant: They speak of both. There were really big mistakes made by the Democrats, not least Joe Biden's decision to contest the election as long as he did. It had become pretty clear by the beginning of 2024 that he wasn't in a fit state to serve four more years or take on the challenge of Donald Trump.Biden did too well at two critical junctures. During the midterm elections in 2022, many people predicted a red wave, a red tsunami. If that had happened, Biden would have faced pressure to step aside for an orderly primary process to pick a successor. But the red wave turned into a red ripple, and that persuaded Biden he was the right candidate. He focused on democracy, put democracy on the ballot, hammered the point about January 6th, and decided to run.Another critical juncture was the State of the Union address at the beginning of 2024. Biden did a good job, and I think that allayed a lot of concerns in the Democratic Party. Looking back on those two events, they really encouraged Biden to run again when he should never have done so.Remember, in 2020, he intimated that he would be a bridge to the next generation. He probably made a mistake then in picking Kamala Harris as his vice presidential candidate because he was basically appointing his heir. She wasn't the strongest Democrat to go up against Donald Trump—it was always going to be hard for a woman of color to win the Rust Belt. She wasn't a particularly good candidate in 2020 when she ran; she didn't even make it into 2020. She launched her campaign in Oakland, and while it looked good at the time, it became clear she was a poor candidate.Historical accidents, the wrong candidate, a suffering economy, and an America that has always been receptive to someone like Trump—all those factors played into his victory.Andrew Keen: If you were giving advice to the Democrats as they lick their wounds and begin to think about recovery and fighting the next battles, would you advise them to shift to the left or to the center?Nick Bryant: That's a fascinating question because you could argue it both ways. Do the Democrats need to find a populist of the left who can win back those blue-collar voters that have deserted the Democratic Party? This is a historical process that's been going on for many years. Working-class voters ditched the Democrats during the Reagan years and the Nixon years. Often race is part of that, often the bad economy is part of that—an economy that's not working for the working class who can't see a way to map out an American dream for themselves.You could argue for a left-wing populist, or you could argue that history shows the only way Democrats win the White House is by being centrist and moderate. That was true of LBJ, Jimmy Carter, and Bill Clinton—all Southerners, and that wasn't a coincidence. Southern Democrats came from the center of the party. Obama was a pragmatic, centrist candidate. Kennedy was a very pragmatic centrist who tried to bring together the warring tribes of the Democratic Party.Historically, you could argue Democrats need to move to the center and stake out that ground as Trump moves further to the right and the extremes. But what makes it harder to say for sure is that we're in a political world where a lot of the old rules don't seem to apply.Andrew Keen: We don't quite know what the new rules are or if there are any rules. You describe this moment as equivalent in historic terms to the fall of the Berlin Wall or perhaps 9/11. If we reverse that lens and look inwards, is there an equivalent historical significance? You had an interesting tweet about Doge and the attempt in some people's eyes for a kind of capture of power by Elon Musk and the replacement of the traditional state with some sort of almost Leninist state. What do you make of what's happening within the United States in domestic politics, particularly Musk's role?Nick Bryant: We've seen American presidents test the Constitution before. Nobody in the modern era has done it so flagrantly as Donald Trump, but Nixon tried to maximize presidential powers to the extent that he broke the law. Nixon would have been found guilty in a Senate trial had that impeachment process continued. Of course, he was forced to resign because a delegation of his own party drove down Pennsylvania Avenue and told him he had to go.You don't get that with the Republican Party and Donald Trump—they've fallen behind him. FDR was commonly described as an American dictator. H.L. Mencken wrote that America had a Caesar, a pharaoh. Woodrow Wilson was maximalist in his presidential powers. Abraham Lincoln was the great Constitution breaker, from trashing the First Amendment to exceeding his powers with the Emancipation Proclamation. Thomas Jefferson's Louisiana Purchase was unconstitutional—he needed congressional approval, which he didn't have.There's a long history of presidents breaking rules and Americans being okay with that. Lincoln has never been displaced from his historical throne of grace. FDR is regarded as one of the great presidents. What sets this moment apart is that constraints on presidents traditionally came from the courts and their own political parties. We're not seeing that with Donald Trump.Andrew Keen: What about the cultural front? There's talk of Trump's revenge, taking over the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C., revenge against traditional scientists, possibly closing some universities. Is this overdramatic, or is Trump really taking revenge for what happened between 2020 and 2024 when he was out of power?Nick Bryant: Trump is in a vengeful mood—we always thought Trump 2.0 would be a project of vengeance. Republican presidents have always thought parts of the administrative state work against them, and Trump is dismantling it at warp speed. Elon Musk is going into various government departments acting like he's heading a hostile takeover of the federal government.Reagan launched a rhetorical assault on federal government, which was really a creation of the New Deal years under FDR. That period saw massive expansion of federal government into people's lives with Social Security and the welfare net. We haven't seen this kind of assault on federal government since then. Trump is also trying to dismantle what he regards as America's cultural establishment, which he sees as too white, too elitist, too intellectual. He's trying to remold America, its government, and cultural institutions in his own image.Andrew Keen: You've mentioned Reagan. I came to the U.S. like you—you came as a grad student to study American history. I came in the '80s and remember the hysteria at UC Berkeley over Reagan—that he would blow up the world, that he was clueless, a Hollywood actor with no right to be in politics. Is it conceivable that Trump could be just another version of Reagan? In spite of all this hysteria, might this second Trump regime actually be successful?Nick Bryant: You can't rule out that possibility. The mistake made about Reagan was seeing him as a warmonger when he really wanted to be a peacemaker. That was the point of ending the Cold War—he wanted to win it, but through gambles on people like Gorbachev and diplomatic moves his advisors warned against.There are analogies to Trump. I don't think he's a warmonger or wants to send U.S. troops into countries. He's described some surprising imperial ambitions like taking over Greenland, though Harry Truman once wanted that too. Trump wants to make peace, but the problem is on what terms. Peace in Ukraine, in Trump's view, means a massive win for Vladimir Putin and the sidelining of the Ukrainian people and America's European allies.There wasn't a big cost to Reagan's peacemaking—the European alliance stayed intact, he tinkered with government but didn't go after Social Security. The cost of Trump is the problem.Andrew Keen: The moral cost or the economic cost?Nick Bryant: Both. One thing that happened with Reagan was the opening of big disparities in income and wealth in American society. That was a big factor in Donald Trump's success—the paradox of how this billionaire from New York became the hero of the Rust Belt. When the gulf between executive pay and shop floor pay became massive, it was during the Reagan years.You see the potential of something similar now. Trump is supercharging an economy that looks like it will favor the tech giants and the world's richest man, Elon Musk. You end up worsening the problem you were arguably setting out to solve.You don't get landslides anymore in American politics—the last president to win 40 states was George Herbert Walker Bush. Reagan in '84 won 49 out of 50 states, almost getting a clean sweep except for Mondale's home state of Minnesota. I don't think Trump will be the kind of unifying president that Reagan was. There was a spontaneity and optimism about Reagan that you don't see with Trump.Andrew Keen: Where are the divisions? Where is the great threat to Trump coming from? There was a story this week that Steve Bannon called Elon Musk a parasitic illegal immigrant. Is it conceivable that the biggest weakness within the Trump regime will come from conflict between people like Bannon and Musk, the nationalists and the internationalist wing of the MAGA movement?Nick Bryant: That's a fascinating question. There doesn't seem to be much external opposition at the moment. The Democrats are knocked out or taking the eight count in boxing terms, getting back on their feet and taking as long as they can to get their gloves up. There isn't a leader in the Democratic movement who has anywhere near Trump's magnetism or personal power to take him on.Maybe the opposition comes from internal divisions and collapse of the Trump project. The relationship with Elon Musk was something I didn't anticipate in my book. After that assassination attempt, Musk endorsed Trump in a big way, put his money behind him, started offering cash prizes in Pennsylvania. Having lived at Mar-a-Lago during the transition with a cottage on the grounds and now an office in the White House—I didn't anticipate his role.Many people thought Trump wouldn't put up with somebody who overshadows him or gets more attention, but that relationship hasn't failed yet. I wonder if that speaks to something different between Trump 2.0 and 1.0. Trump's surrounded by loyalists now, but at 78 years old, I think he wanted to win the presidency more than he wanted the presidency itself. I wonder if he's happy to give more responsibility to people like Musk who he thinks will carry out his agenda.Andrew Keen: You've been described as the new Alistair Cooke. Cooke was the father of Anglo-American journalism—his Letter from America was an iconic show, the longest-running show in radio history. Cooke was always very critical of what he called the big daddy state in Washington, D.C., wasn't a fan of large government. What's your take on Trump's attack on large government in D.C.? Is there anything in it? You spent a lot of time in DC. Are these agencies full of fat and do they need to be cut?Nick Bryant: Cutting fat out of Washington budgets is one of the easy things—they're bloated, they get all these earmarks, they're full of pork. There's always been a bloated federal bureaucracy, and there's a long historical tradition of suspicion of Washington going back to the founding. That's why the federal system emerged with so much power vested in the states.Reagan's revolution was based on dismantling the New Deal government. He didn't get that far in that project, but rhetorically he shifted America's views about government. He emphasized that government was the problem, not the solution, for four decades. When Bill Clinton became president, he had to make this big ideological concession to Reaganism and deliver Reaganite lines like "the era of big government is over."The concern right now is that they're not just getting rid of fat—they're getting rid of expertise and institutional knowledge. They're removing people who may be democratic in their thinking or not on board with the Trump revolution, but who have extensive experience in making government work. In moments of national crisis, conservative ideologues tend to become operational liberals. They rely on government in disasters, pandemics, and economic crises to bail out banks and industries.Conservatives have successfully planted in many Americans' heads that government is the enemy. Hillary Clinton saw a classic sign in 2006—a protester carrying a sign saying "get your government hands off my Medicare." Well, Medicare is a government program. People need government, expertise, and people in Washington who know what they're doing. You're not just getting rid of waste—you're getting rid of institutional knowledge.Andrew Keen: One of the more colorful characters in these Trump years is RFK Jr. There was an interesting piece in the National Review about RFK Jr. forcing the left to abandon the Kennedy legacy. Is there something symbolically historical in this shift from RFK Sr. being an icon on the left to RFK Jr. being an icon on the libertarian right? Does it speak of something structural that's changed in American political culture?Nick Bryant: Yes, it does, and it speaks to how America is perceived internationally. JFK was always seen as this liberal champion, but he was an arch pragmatist, never more so than on civil rights. My doctoral thesis and first book were about tearing down that myth about Kennedy.The Kennedys did inspire international respect. The Kennedy White House seemed to be a place of rationality, refinement, and glamor. JFK embodied what was great about America—its youth, dynamism, vision. When RFK was assassinated in California, weeks after MLK's assassination, many thought that sense of America was being killed off too. These were people who inspired others internationally to enter public service. They saw America as a beacon on a hill.RFK Jr. speaks of a different, toxic American exceptionalism. People look at figures like RFK Jr. and wonder how he could possibly end up heading the American Health Department. He embodies what many people internationally reject about America, whereas JFK and RFK embodied what people loved, admired, and wanted to emulate.Andrew Keen: You do a show now on Australian television. What's the view from Australia? Are people as horrified and disturbed in Australia as they are in Europe about what you've called a historic change as profound as the fall of the Berlin Wall—or maybe rather than the fall of the Berlin Wall, it's the establishment of a new kind of Berlin Wall?Nick Bryant: One of Australia's historic diplomatic fears is abandonment. They initially looked to Britain as a security guarantor in the early days of Australian Federation when Australia became a modern country in 1901. After World War II, they realized Britain couldn't protect them, so they looked to America instead. America has underwritten Australia's security since World War II.Now many Australians realize that won't be the case anymore. Australia entered into the AUKUS deal with Britain and America for nuclear submarine technology, which has become the basis of Australia's defense. There's fear that Trump could cancel it on a whim. They're currently battling over steel and aluminum tariffs. Anthony Albanese, the center-left prime minister, got a brief diplomatic reprieve after talking with Trump last week.A country like Australia, much like Britain, France, or Germany, cannot look on Trump's America as a reliable ally right now. That's concerning in a region where China increasingly throws its weight around.Andrew Keen: Although I'm guessing some people in Australia would be encouraged by Trump's hostility towards China.Nick Bryant: Yes, that's one area where they see Trump differently than in Europe because there are so many China hawks in the Trump administration. That gives them some comfort—they don't see the situation as directly analogous to Europe. But it's still worrying. They've had presidents who've been favorable towards Australia over the years. Trump likes Australia partly because America enjoys a trade surplus with Australia and he likes Greg Norman, the golfer. But that only gives you a certain measure of security.There is concern in this part of the world, and like in Europe, people are questioning whether they share values with a president who is aligning himself with far-right parties.Andrew Keen: Finally, Nick, your penultimate book was "When America Stopped Being Great: A History of the Present." You had an interesting tweet where you noted that the final chapter in your current book, "The Forever War," is called "Goodbye America." But the more we talk, whether or not America remains great is arguable. If anything, this conversation is about "hello" to a new America. It's not goodbye America—if anything, America's more powerful, more dominant, shaping the world more in the 2020s than it's ever done.Nick Bryant: It's goodbye to the America we've known for the last 70 years, but not goodbye to America itself. That's one of the arguments of the book—Trump is far more representative of the true America than many international observers realize. If you look at American history through a different lens, Trump makes perfect sense.There's always been an authoritarian streak, a willingness to fall for demagogues, political violence, deep mistrust of government, and rich people making fortunes—from the robber barons of the late 19th century to the tech barons of the 21st century. It's goodbye to a certain America, but the America that Trump presides over now is an America that's always been there. Trump hasn't changed America—he's revealed it.Andrew Keen: Well, one thing we can say for sure is it's not goodbye to Nick Bryant. We'll get you back on the show. You're one of America's most perceptive and incisive observers, even if you're in Australia now. Thank you so much.Nick Bryant: Andrew, it's always a pleasure to be with you. I still love the country deeply—my fascination has always been born of great affection.Nick Bryant is the author of The Forever War: American's Unending Conflict with Itself and When America Stopped Being Great, a book that Joe Biden keeps in the Oval Office. He was formerly one of the BBC's most senior foreign correspondents, with postings in Washington DC, New York, South Asia and Australia. After covering the presidencies of Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Trump and Joe Biden, he left the BBC in 2021, and now lives in Sydney with his wife and children. Nick studied history at Cambridge and has a doctorate in American history from Oxford.Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting the daily KEEN ON show, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy interview series. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

The actor and singer talks about his  Audible audio book, Up Against The Wall Start Your Free One Year Trial at Sci-Fi Talk Plus

Dr. Heather Wilson, a 1982 Air Force Academy graduate, formerly the 24th Secretary of the Air Force, and first USAFA graduate to hold the position, discusses her unexpected journey to the role, emphasizing the importance of integrity, service, and leadership. ----more---- SUMMARY Dr. Wilson shares her unexpected journey into leadership, the importance of integrity, and the lessons learned from both successes and failures. She reflects on her family legacy, the influence of mentors, and how her military background shaped her leadership style. Dr. Wilson emphasizes the value of collecting tools for leadership and adapting to different environments while maintaining core values. In this conversation, she discusses the importance of finding purpose in one's mission and the value of relationships, particularly family support. She reflects on her journey as a woman in leadership, the significance of legacy in public service, and her unexpected path to serving in Congress. Dr. Wilson emphasizes the lessons learned in collaboration and the importance of humor in leadership, ultimately encouraging future leaders to uphold high standards and not to shame their families.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN | FACEBOOK   TAKEAWAYS Dr. Wilson's journey to becoming Secretary of the Air Force was unexpected and transformative. Leadership often requires owning failures and focusing on solutions. Integrity is foundational to effective leadership and builds trust. Adapting leadership styles to different cultures is essential for success. Mentorship and influences from family play a significant role in shaping leaders. Collecting tools and knowledge is crucial for effective leadership. Quality management principles can be applied to various fields, including education and social services. Leadership is not linear; it involves navigating different paths and chapters. Building strong teams and hiring the right people is vital for organizational success. Direct communication and honesty are key components of effective leadership. Doing things that matter with people you like is essential. The most important decision in life can be personal, like choosing a partner. Family support enriches life and provides joy. Women in leadership often face unique challenges but can pave the way for others. Legacy is about making lasting changes in systems and strategies. Unexpected opportunities can lead to significant career changes. Collaboration and giving credit to others is key in leadership roles. Humor can help create a relaxed atmosphere in serious environments. Education is crucial for transforming lives and communities. Leadership is not always a straight path; adaptability is important.   EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00  Introduction to Long Blue Leadership 01:25  Unexpected Call to Leadership 03:16  Lessons from Leadership Challenges 08:28  The Importance of Integrity 10:07  Adapting Leadership Styles 12:23  Influences and Mentorship 15:25  Family Legacy and Influence 17:41  Learning from Team Members 21:29  Applying Quality Management Principles 24:07  Navigating Non-Linear Leadership Paths 24:20  Finding Purpose in Mission and Relationships 28:06  The Importance of Family Support 30:08  Navigating Leadership as a Woman 34:30  Legacy and Impact in Public Service 36:29  Unexpected Paths: Serving in Congress 41:03  Lessons in Collaboration and Leadership   ABOUT DR. WILSON - IMAGES AND BIO COURTESY OF UTEP BIO Dr. Heather Wilson became the 11th President of The University of Texas at El Paso in 2019 after serving as Secretary of the United States Air Force. She is the former president of the South Dakota School of Mines & Technology, and she represented New Mexico in the United States Congress for 10 years.  Active in community and national affairs, she is a member of the National Science Board, which oversees the National Science Foundation, and serves as a board member of the Texas Space Commission. She was the inaugural Chair of the Alliance of Hispanic Serving Research Universities, and is a member of the board of directors of Lockheed Martin Corporation. Dr. Wilson is the granddaughter of immigrants and was the first person in her family to go to college. She graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy in the third class to admit women and earned her master's and doctoral degrees from Oxford University in England as a Rhodes Scholar. UTEP is located on the U.S.-Mexico border – in the fifth largest manufacturing region in North America – and serves over 24,000 students with 170 bachelor's, master's and doctoral degree programs in nine colleges and schools. In the top 5% of public universities in the United States for research and designated a community-engaged university by the Carnegie Foundation, UTEP is America's leading Hispanic-serving university. It is the fourth largest research university in Texas and serves a student body that is 84% Hispanic. President Wilson is an instrument rated private pilot. She and her husband, Jay Hone, have two adult children and two granddaughters. Dr. Heather Wilson served as the 24th Secretary of the Air Force and was responsible for the affairs of the Department of the Air Force, including the organizing, training and equipping and providing for the welfare of 660,000 Active-Duty, Guard, Reserve and civilian forces their families. She provided oversight of the Air Force's annual budget of more than $132 billion and directs strategy and policy development, risk management, weapons acquisition, technology investments and human resource management across a global enterprise. Dr. Wilson has more than 35 years of professional experience in a range of leadership and management roles in the military, higher education, government and private industry. Before assuming her current position, Dr. Wilson was president of the South Dakota School of Mines & Technology, an engineering and science research university. From 1998 to 2009, Dr. Wilson was a member of the U.S. House of Representatives, where she served on the House Armed Services Committee, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Energy and Commerce Committee. Before being elected to Congress, Dr. Wilson was a cabinet secretary in New Mexico's state government responsible for foster care, adoption, juvenile delinquency, children's mental health and early childhood education. From 1989 to 1991 Wilson served on the National Security Council staff as director for defense policy and arms control for President George H.W. Bush during the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. From 1991 to1995 and again from 2009 to 2013 Wilson was in the private sector. In 1991, she founded Keystone International, Inc., a company that did business development and program planning work for defense and scientific industry. She served as a senior advisor to several national laboratories on matters related to nuclear weapons, non-proliferation, arms control verification, intelligence and the defense industrial base. Wilson also served on the boards of two publicly traded corporations as well as numerous advisory and non-profit boards.   CONNECT WITH DR. WILSON LINKEDIN  |  UTEP     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Guest:  Dr. Heather Wilson '82  |  Hosts:  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz  00:00 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, the podcast where we share insights on leadership through the lives and experiences of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm Naviere Walkowicz, Class of '99. Our story is about a leader who reached heights fellow Air Force Academy graduates had not reached before her, and this was at a time when opportunities to do so were still new. My guest is Dr. Heather Wilson, Class of '82. As you heard, she served as the 24th secretary of the Air Force, but there is a unique distinction attached to that. Dr Wilson, welcome to Long Blue Leadership; we have much to discuss. Let's start with you becoming the secretary of the Air Force, our 24th.   Dr. Heather Wilson  00:37 Yeah, that wasn't part of my life's plan. Secretary Designate Mattis did call me. I was in South Dakota as the president of the South Dakota School of Mines and my cell phone rang and he said, “This is Jim Mattis, and I want to talk to you about becoming secretary of the Air Force.” And honest to goodness, my initial answer was, “Sir, you do know that being a college president is like the best job in America, right?” And he said, “Yeah, I know. I just came from Stanford.” And I said, “I didn't apply for any job. I mean, I like it out... I'm a gal of the West. I like the mountains. I like hiking and biking and fly fishing.” And he said, “Yeah, I know. I grew up on the Columbia River in Washington.” And I thought, “This isn't working,” but we talked several more times, and it was pretty clear that I was being called to serve in a way that I didn't anticipate, but that was what I was supposed to do.   Naviere Walkewicz  01:35 What a transformative moment in your life, I'm sure.   Dr. Heather Wilson  01:38 Well, it was. Again, my entire life, I think, is a diversion from its planned course. But I turned out — I didn't anticipate that, and it meant — my husband doesn't really much like big East Coast cities that rain a lot and have a lot of traffic, and so from a family point of view, it wasn't what we personally wanted to do, but you're called to serve. And we've been called to serve in different ways in our lives and sometimes, even if it feels inconvenient, you're still called to serve. It turned out to be wonderful and I really enjoyed the experience, both of working with Sec. Mattis, but also getting back to spending time with airmen. And so it turned out to be wonderful, but it wasn't what I expected.   Naviere Walkewicz  02:25 Well, you said it, ma'am. As we know, service and leadership aren't linear, and so we're really excited to dive into some of those experiences today. Maybe share, as secretary of the Air Force, some of those moments in leadership that stuck with you. Let's just kind of start there.   Dr. Heather Wilson  02:42 Certainly. There were good days and not so good days. I think one of the things that I really benefited from was that I had a partner in the chief of staff, Dave Goldfein, who was absolutely fantastic. And we've remained very close friends. We started at the Academy the same day and he would joke and tell people that we didn't graduate on the same day because he went stop-out for a year. But we didn't know each other well as cadets, but we were formed by some of the same experiences and I think that helped tremendously. I didn't really understand that in our system of government, the civilian secretary has almost all the authority, but the chief of staff has almost all of the influence. And if you can figure out how to work together, you can get a heck of a lot done. And Dave and I both had that same approach, and it turned out to be a great partnership.   Naviere Walkewicz  03:42 That's pretty incredible. In fact, the time of your service in that role, I was actually working under your umbrella at U.S. STRATCOM. I was at Strategic Command there as a government civilian and as a reservist. And so, I can certainly speak to, I think, some of the amazing things that you did. Can you share a little — you talked about some ups and downs. What was maybe one of the failures as secretary of the Air Force that you learned from that helped you throughout your life?   Dr. Heather Wilson  04:11 Well, I know the day. I think it was Nov. 5, 2017, and it was a Sunday, late morning or early afternoon, and my phone rang. I was upstairs in the study in my row house in Virginia and it was the inspector general, Gen. Syed. And that morning, a young man had walked into a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, and opened fire and killed a lot of people, and it turned out he had been an airman, and the general said, “You know, we're not sure yet, but he may have been convicted of a crime that would have required us to tell the FBI and the national criminal records check system that he had committed a crime that would not allow him to purchase a weapon, but we may have failed to notify.” We didn't know, we wouldn't know that afternoon but I talked to the chief and we all got together on Monday morning at 9 a.m. and Gen. Syed confirmed that he was an airman, he had been convicted of a domestic violence-related crime, and we had not properly notified the FBI, and as a result, he had been able to buy a weapon. Um, that was not a good day. And we talked about what we should do next, and our general counsel wasn't there — he was traveling that morning, but a more junior lawyer was there, who suggested kind of — and, you know, other people said, well — it actually got worse because there was an IG investigation, an internal audit from several years before, that showed that all of the services were not properly reporting to the national criminal records system. So we hadn't fixed the problem. We knew; we had been informed there was a problem and hadn't fixed it. And some people said, “Well, you weren't here at the time.” That doesn't matter. You wear the uniform, or you wear the cloak of office, and you have to take responsibility for the institution. And of course, the lawyers would say, “Well, you know, maybe you want to fuzz this and not take — you know, there's investigation going on,” or something. But we knew enough of the facts that morning, Monday morning, and Dave Goldfein and I decided to own it, to own the failure and focus on fixing the problem. And we did. And in the short term that was very uncomfortable. We sat in front of the Pentagon press corps and took their questions, and we went to Capitol Hill and informed the members of Congress on what had been done and not been done and why. But in the long term, by owning failure, we were able to focus on fixing the problem rather than just trying to manage responsibility and accountability, and it turned out to be a much better approach. So, sometimes the most important lesson is to own failure.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:09 I'm so glad you shared that, ma'am, because I think some people have a fear of failure, but there are many times when failure is inevitable, and to your point, owning it is the right approach. Something you said when you're sharing that, it made me think about us as cadets and our core values: integrity first. And that really resonated with how your approach was. Would you say that was born for you at the Academy and kind of through your career that's where it stayed, or has that always been part of your fabric?   Dr. Heather Wilson  07:36 I think the Academy was absolutely formative in that way, in the Honor Code. And, you know, integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all we do, now replaces what was there when I was a cadet, over the archway there. But I think that's woven into the fabric for airmen, and it's part of our culture, and it drives you. And I think — you know now we look at, how do we evaluate officers? It's the same way I now evaluate leaders — any leaders that work with me — and it's the way I evaluate myself: accomplish the mission, lead people, manage resources and make your unit better, all on a foundation of values. But it's that last part of it: all on a foundation of values. If you don't have that, the rest of it almost doesn't matter. You can try to make your unit better, but if you're lying about it, nobody's going to trust you. If you're leading people and managing resources, but you don't have integrity, it doesn't matter. So, integrity first, and that commitment to trying to be honest and direct with people builds those relationships of trust, which lasts for decades throughout a career.   Naviere Walkewicz  08:53 Absolutely. And the key word, I think, that foundation you talked about — how has that foundation served you in leadership as you've explored other areas outside of the military, amazing roles leading UTEP, also at the South Dakota School of Mines, in higher education? I'm sure that there's a translation of what that looks like. Can you share maybe an example of how that came into play?   Dr. Heather Wilson  09:15 Sure, it happens all the time. I think in any leadership position, whether you're in corporate life, in community life and a nonprofit, or in higher education, leading with a foundation of values, being honest, complying with the law, following the rules or changing the rules. It doesn't mean — that's one of the things that I think is probably important for leaders. You get to a point as a leader where your job is not just to follow the rules, but to look at the systems and identify the rules that need to be changed, but to be direct and honest about that too. Where it's not “Well, I think this rule doesn't make any sense, so I'm going to skirt it,” or “I'm not going to tell people that I've complied with something and I haven't.” In fact, you know that happened to me this morning. I got a disclosure that I was supposed to sign for a report that was published yesterday to the director of National Intelligence on a committee that I serve on, and they sent this kind of notification on what you can talk about publicly, and all of those things, and I hadn't given up my right to speak publicly about unclassified matters, and I responded, “I understand what you've said. I want to let you know that this is how I interpret this, and this is the way I'm going to act.” I was very direct about it. “I didn't give up my First Amendment rights as a citizen because I worked on your task force.” So, very direct. And I think that directness is something that — not all cultures are that way, including higher education culture. I have to be a little bit careful about that sometimes — the airman's tendency to have a frank debrief isn't always the way other cultures and work cultures are. They're just not always like that, so, I have to be a little bit careful sometimes that I don't crush people's will to live or something.   Naviere Walkewicz  11:13 I was actually thinking about that as you were speaking how, if you have the foundation, especially from the military, we kind of understand that directive approach and certainly those core values that we know of. And I'm curious, how do you adapt as a leader to those who maybe don't have that foundation? How do you bring them up to speed and kind of help them establish that?   Dr. Heather Wilson  11:32 Well, it's a two-way street. It means that I have to understand the culture that I'm in and the way in which I talk with senior faculty may be slightly different than the way I might talk to somebody who just got off a flight line and was too low and slow on final or something, you know? But at the same time with both a sense of humor and a little bit of grace… It was really funny when I was at South Dakota Mines, my provost was a long-time academic. And of course, I had served in Congress for 10 years as well. And he once said something to me that just made me crack up. He said, “You know, you are the least political president I've ever worked with. And the funny thing is, you're the only one that was really a politician.” And he said, “You remind me more of a military officer.” And I thought, “Yeah, that's probably true.” But I was fairly direct as a member of Congress as well. And so, I've just found that that works better for me in life, I guess.   Naviere Walkewicz  12:37 You were sharing how, you know, I think it was the provost that said that you really didn't remind him as someone that was very political, even though you're the only politician he's known. And so what was your time like serving in Congress? I mean, that's 10 years you did, I think, correct?   Dr. Heather Wilson  12:52 I did. And again, I didn't expect to serve in Congress. My predecessor became very seriously ill shortly before the filing deadline for the election that happened in 1998, and my phone rang. It was a Thursday night. This happens to me. I don't know why, but it was a Thursday night, and my phone rang. I was working in Santa Fe, cabinet secretary for Child Welfare, and it was Sen. Pete Domenici, the senior senator for the state of New Mexico. And he said, “You don't know anything about this, but I'm coming to New Mexico this weekend, and I want to talk to you about running for Congress.” Well, that's a quiz; that's not a question. Because a quiz has a right answer, which is, “Sir, I'd be happy to talk to you about whatever you want to talk about.” He's a United States senator. So, we talked about all kinds of things, and he called me from the airport when he was heading back to Washington that Sunday night, and he said, “Look, if you will run, I will help you.” And I decided to run. It was eight days before the filing deadline. I talked to my predecessor — he was fighting skin cancer — and said, “Look, why don't you just focus on fighting cancer? Two years from now, if you want to run again, you can have this seat back. I'll try to do my best for the next two years.” And then 30 days later, he died. I mean, you're not supposed to die of skin cancer. And so, I ended up serving for 10 years in the Congress in a very difficult swing district that I probably shouldn't have won in the first place. But I enjoyed the service part of it. I enjoyed the policy work part of it — intellectually challenging. Some of the partisan silliness I didn't like very much. And then when I left the Congress, ran on successfully for the Senate and became a university president. One of the great things — I tell people now that I was released from Congress early for good behavior. But it was nice to be in a town where people were waving at me with all five fingers. I mean, it was wonderful. So, I enjoyed the service, and I enjoyed a lot helping people — doing casework and things. But it was also a little bit less of a partisan time where you could try to listen and learn and serve well and try to serve your constituents without just being under attack mercilessly and in social media, or something. It was maybe perhaps a different age.   Naviere Walkewicz  15:25 Well, I chuckled when you said waving with all five fingers. That got a good one out of me. I thought about when you're in that, because that wasn't something you were looking to do, and this seems to be a bit of a theme in your leadership trajectory as well. You've kind of been tapped on the shoulder, and you know, for the ones that you didn't apply for or run for, plan for, have been such transformative positions in your life.   Dr. Heather Wilson  15:50 Yeah, and I think maybe that happens to people more than we might acknowledge, because when we're planning our lives, we think we know what's going to happen, but in reality, we adapt to situations that develop and opportunities open that you didn't know were there or someone asked you to take on a special project and that leads you in a direction that you didn't anticipate. So while mine seem particularly unusual in these very different chapters of my life, I don't think it's all that unusual. We just look forward and project in straight lines, and when we look backward, we tell a story in a narrative and it's not always a straight line. But I've been blessed to be asked to do some things. And perhaps in our relationship, my husband and I, he doesn't like change. I love it, and so in our relationship, he's kind of the keel and I'm kind of the sail, and together, we go places.   Naviere Walkewicz  16:56 That's awesome. And I think that particular time and journey in your career serving in Congress was probably one that you established new tools in your leadership toolbox. Were there any that particularly stood out — moments, either when you were having to, you know, forge new policy or achieve things that you hadn't prior? Because Congress is a kind of different machine.   Dr. Heather Wilson  17:21 Yeah, it's a very big committee, and it's not executive leadership. And so I'm probably more predisposed to executive leadership than just being on committees. It takes a very long time to get anything done in Congress, and our government is intentionally designed that way to protect us from tyranny. So you have to take that philosophical approach to it, even if you're frustrated day to day. I did learn how to get things done by giving other people credit. And there were several times — the changes to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is probably one example — where I had sponsored legislation in the House. It had taken quite a bit of time — changing Congress. There were continued problems, and I went to others and tried to put them in positions of leadership and support them. And ultimately, it was a Senate bill that passed, but which had been shaped in the background by multiple people, including me, and I was OK with that. And the same thing happened on pieces of legislation about public lands in New Mexico. I remember I came out in favor of doing something in northern New Mexico with respect to some public lands, and I got out ahead of Pete Domenici and he was not happy about that. He was very clear about not being happy about getting a little bit ahead of him on it. But in the end, the piece of legislation there that was signed, and another one on Zia Pueblo were Senate bills. They weren't House bills. But I had moved things forward on the House side, and it didn't matter to me that that it said “S” rather than “H” in front of the name of the bill. So as long as you don't really care about who gets the credit, you can get a lot done in the Congress.   Naviere Walkewicz  19:11 That is a powerful lesson. And somewhere in the back of my mind, I think there's a Contrails quote, and I can't remember all of it, but I remember the end of it is, “…if you don't care who gets the credit.”   Dr. Heather Wilson  19:11 Yeah, that was probably one of the short ones. Schofield's quote was — we all did pushups for those.   Naviere Walkewicz  19:30 Yes, I had a starting moment. I was about to get down…   Dr. Heather Wilson  19:35 … and start to sweat…   Naviere Walkewicz  19:37 … and take my punishment. That was wonderful, ma'am. I'm glad we actually went back and did that journey.   Dr. Heather Wilson  19:42 When I think about my service in the Congress, where I made the most difference, it was in committee work, and particularly on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, where I served for a significant amount of time, including post-9/11. And I think that work, because the Intelligence Committee, most of it is in private, it's dealing with really hard, really important issues, and you don't bring your staff there. You have to do the work. And I think probably that's where I did some of my most important work as a member of Congress, was in Intelligence.   Naviere Walkewicz  20:18 Thank you for sharing that. Who are some other influencers, some key influencers in your life, that have maybe walked alongside you or helped you in these different roles that you've carried in your amazing career.   Dr. Heather Wilson  20:31 Oh, they're different people at different times, but certainly as a young person, my grandfather was very important to me. My grandfather had been one of the first flyers in the RAF in World War I, and then came to America in 1922 and flew in the Second World War for what became the Civil Air Patrol. So he did sub search off the Atlantic coast, and varied parts, around to bases, in New England. So, he was important to me as a child. My dad died when I was young. My dad also had been enlisted in the Air Force. He was a crew chief and also a pilot, commercial pilot, after he got out of the service. So I grew up around airplanes and my grandfather was very important to me, and there were other people along the way. When I was a cadet, there was a group commander, Lieutenant Colonel — it's funny, you still remember… anyone who remembers my middle initial, I know it's like, “Oh, this may not be good,” but Robert L. Rame, Lt. Col. Robert L. Rame was the 4th Group commander and my first Air Officer Commanding. General — sorry, Maj. William S. Reeder. He was an Army officer and had been a prisoner of war in Vietnam. Really, I was terrified of disappointing him. It's funny, I just got a Christmas card from him. Life's long, right?   Naviere Walkewicz  21:53 Wow. What connections. I'd like to kind of go back a little bit to your grandfather. You said he was really important to you in your life. Can you share maybe some of the ways he influenced you? Obviously, you're third-generation aviator in your family. Is that how you knew you're going to go into service?   Dr. Heather Wilson  22:08 Well, the Academy wasn't an option until I was a junior in high school, and so I knew I was going to college, but I didn't really think about where. And then they opened the Air Force Academy to women when I was a junior in high school. So, my grandfather had two sons, and he had five grandsons, and me. But he was pretty — I would say — the way he might say it is he was pretty sweet on me; he and I were very close. We used to play chess after school when I was in high school, and I remember once we just finished playing chess, and I was a senior in high school — so, my grandfather was an aviator; he was also a mechanic. He could use any tool, I mean, he was just amazing with his hands. And I had learned a new tool in school, and I took out a piece of graph paper and I drew a drew a curve, and I said, “Grandpa, do you think you could find the area under this curve?” And he said, “Well, I'd probably count up the squares and estimate from there on the graph paper.” And I then I showed him something new and it was called calculus, and it was the first time in my life that I realized I had a tool that my grandfather didn't have. He had a high school education and had gone into the RAF during the First World War, and he was a great mechanic and a really good man, but I realized that there were opportunities for me that maybe my grandfather never had.   Naviere Walkewicz  23:56 I actually got chill bumps when you shared that. Pretty powerful. Thank you so much. Can you talk about, throughout your career — you said if people remember your middle initial, and I'm sure that many on the military side would, because you're amazing… Have you learned from anyone maybe that is not a mentor of you, but someone that has kind of come under your wing? Can you share some leadership lessons that you've learned from those serving alongside and under you?   Dr. Heather Wilson  24:24 Oh my gosh, I learn stuff every day from the people whom I'm privileged to work with. And one of the things that I learned over time was, and as you get more senior, the most important thing you do as a senior leader is hire good people who know things that you don't know, because it's not possible to know everything you need to know to lead a large organization. So, you have to organize yourself well and then get great people and let them do their job. So, I learn things every day. I was interviewing somebody yesterday that we're trying to attract to come to the university who is on the communication side of things — marketing and communication and branding. And you know that creative, visual side of my brain, if you did a brain scan, it would be like a dark hole. That's not a strength of mine. And so those kinds of things are — you have to realize what your strengths are, and then to fill in the team and put together a team, which together can accomplish the mission.   Naviere Walkewicz  25:34 I'd say your grandfather is still kind of, you know, influencing that. It's almost like you're filling your toolbox with all those areas.   Dr. Heather Wilson  25:43 That's funny you use that word. I've told this story before, but my father was both a pilot and a mechanic, and he built an experimental aircraft in our house, and we lived on this, kind of the last house that they would plow to on the end of the road in the winter, right? So, in a very small town, and at that time, there were still traveling salesmen, and the Snap-on tools guy would come probably every six weeks or so, and he had this, like red truck with an accordion thing on the back that looked just like the toolbox in the corner of the garage, right? And we knew that when the Snap-on tools guy came, do not go out. I mean, it was like Christmas for my dad. Do not interfere when the Snap-on tools guy is there. And so he'd go out and lean against the truck, and we could see him laughing and stuff. And eventually my dad would reach in his pocket and pull out his billfold and give the guy a bill, and he'd go back, and he'd lift up the back of the accordion thing and reach in there and give my dad a tool. And my dad would — then the truck would back out, and go on to his next stop. But my dad would take that tool and we'd scramble into the garage to see what he got and stuff. And my dad would usually put that tool in the box in the corner and then go back to what he was doing that day, working on his car or whatever he was doing. And it occurred to me that my dad didn't need that tool that day, but he collected tools, and someday he'd need that tool. And I think great leaders collect tools even when they don't need them today, because they're going to be times when you bring everybody to — you know, there's that great scene in Apollo 13, but it happens around the staff and Cabinet table, and it'll happen in your planning room as a pilot where you've got a new problem, and everybody brings in their tools and says, “OK, how can we make a carbon monoxide filter, or carbon dioxide filter, out of what we've got here on the table?” So, collect tools. And I think that's one of the things I learned from my dad.     Naviere Walkewicz  28:00 Oh, that is an amazing story. Can you share maybe a tool that you've had in your toolbox, that you learned way back when, maybe at the Academy, or as a young girl, that you've recently pulled out and used?   Dr. Heather Wilson 28:12 Well, one of them — I'm not so sure it's recent, but when I was a small business owner, there was a group in New Mexico called Quality New Mexico, and they taught small business owners the Baldrige Principles for quality management. And then I ended up being the Cabinet secretary for child welfare in New Mexico. So, I took over a foster care system, which was under a federal consent decree for not getting kids forever homes and an overly crowded juvenile justice system. I mean, every intractable social problem was — I realized after a while why I became Cabinet secretary for child welfare, because nobody else wanted that job. I mean it was a really difficult job, but I had these tools on quality management. I thought, “I think we can apply these same principles to improving foster care, to improving the juvenile justice system.” And so we did, and there's some things I was proud of there, but one of my last acts as Cabinet secretary before I ended up leaving and running for Congress was to sign the end of the federal consent decree that had been in place for 18 years that said that the state was not getting foster kids forever homes. We changed the system, but we did it using those quality management principles, which I had learned as a small business owner almost as a lark. So, there's one example. But, you know, we just went through a global pandemic. It was very much a pickup game. Nobody had ever been through that. So, we all got together and figured out how we could use the tools we had, including the research capability on my campus to be able to sequence DNA so that we could do testing on campus and get the results, ultimately, within six hours and then feed that back so we could detect disease before someone was symptomatic, so you could suppress disease on campus for those who had to be on campus. There's some things you can't do remotely. And so, we had our own testing system on campus, which was remarkable. Well, why'd we have that? Because we had some tools in the box.   Naviere Walkewicz  30:37 Well, you've used those tools amazingly as you've navigated your career. How would you say that — because yours is… we talked about not being linear. It's kind of been multiple paths and…   Dr. Heather Wilson 30:50 Different chapters.   Naviere Walkewicz 30:51 Yes, I love that. Different chapters. How would you say that you've navigated leadership through that? And has there been a thread that's been common through all those different chapters that you've…   Dr. Heather Wilson  31:04 Yeah, we talked a little about integrity, and that certainly is there. But I when, when people say things like, you know, “Why are you at UTEP?” Or, “Why did you shift to higher ed?” Or, “Why did…” The mission matters so developing people matters. Defending the country matters. So, a mission that matters with people I like. And I realized that when you get down to it, you should do things that matter with people you like and if that's your filter, as long as you can put food on the table, there's a lot of different things you can do, but it should be something that matters with people you like. Otherwise, that time between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. can seem forever unless you're doing something you like.   Naviere Walkewicz  31:49 That is a powerful thread. Mission matters with people you like. How has your family supported you through this?   Dr. Heather Wilson  31:56 I live a blessed life. I tell this to students, and probably, as a younger woman, I wouldn't have said these things because I was so focused on being taken seriously, I suppose. But, I lightened up after time and realized, OK, I'm probably too serious. But the most important decision I've made in my life is not to go to the Academy or to run for Congress or to become a college president — none of those things are the most important decision I've made in my life. The most important decision I made in my life was to marry the guy I married. I married a guy who's actually retired Air Force now, but he was a lawyer. Despite that, he's a nice guy and sometimes, I think, particularly for women, there's always that fear that you're going to sit down when you're in a getting into a serious relationship, and it's going to be one of those conversations that says, “OK, we're thinking about making this permanent. Who's going to give up her career?” And it's not really a conversation, or at least maybe it wasn't in my era, but Jay never had that conversation with me. It was always we could do more together than either of us could do alone, and he has been so supportive of me. And, yeah, vice versa. But I had to go back east for something last week, and I knew that even in this big reception that I was in with all these people, that he wasn't going to be there, and if he was, he'd still be the most interesting guy in the room. So, I married well, and my family always — we're a very close family. And I think while my obligations to my family didn't end at the front porch, my family gave richness and dimension to my life that I never really anticipated as a young woman, and it's given me joy. Success seemed possible to achieve; joy always seemed like a gift from God, and I have had joy because of my family.   Naviere Walkewicz  34:18 Thank you for sharing that. You talk about when you're hiring, you choose people that kind of fill gaps, but it sounds like, also on your personal team, you want to make sure that you're choosing it, you know...   Dr. Heather Wilson  34:30 Yeah, you're going to be roommates for a long time. That matters. And there's the things that you just kind of have to get over. You know, I'm not going to clean around his sink, and he's not going to be bothered about the fact that my closet's color coordinated. I mean, we just live with that, right?   Naviere Walkewicz  34:49 I appreciate that about you so much. You talked a minute ago about some things you learned about yourself as a leader. You know, “Not take myself too seriously.” Can you share a little bit more about that journey on your own, like that personal leadership journey that you've made?   Dr. Heather Wilson  35:07 Yeah, and I think it's easier as you go on. And honestly, very early on, I was very often the only woman in the room, and so I wanted to be taken seriously. I was also very often the youngest person in the room. And so those two things made me want to be taken seriously. As I went on and got more responsibility, I realized that the truth is I am a very serious and successful woman. My husband would say that I was raised in the home for the humor impaired, and that I've been in therapy with him for over 30 years. So, I gradually learned to see the humor in life. I still am not one that stands up and tells jokes or something, but I see the humor in life and I don't take myself too seriously. The person that I watched who used self-deprecating humor better than any leader I've ever seen was actually Dave Goldfein. Everyone knew when he walked into a room, or if he stood up on a stage at a town hall meeting with a bunch of airmen or something — everybody knew that they were gonna laugh. At some point in that meeting we're gonna laugh, and not at someone else's expense, but at his. And it made people relax around him. He was very, very good at it. But I also knew that his self-deprecating humor was really a cover for exceptional competence, and I never underestimated that, but it made people relax and brought a little bit of joy to whatever intractable problem we were looking at.   Naviere Walkewicz  36:51 Well, you shared about sometimes when you're coming up through your leadership, you were often the only woman in the room and sometimes the youngest in the room. What would you like to share on your thoughts of what has that impact been, and what do you see as your legacy?   Dr. Heather Wilson  37:07 Well, there were some times, particularly early on, when women flying or women in positions of command was new, where you just had to do the job and realize that you were probably changing attitudes as you went and that it would be easier for those who came after you, and that's OK. I don't see that as much anymore. Although, when I was elected to Congress, I think probably 10% to 15% of the House was women. Now it's more than that, and once it gets to be more than 30% in any room, it doesn't sound — it's almost like you walk into a restaurant where it's all guys or all women, and you notice the difference in the room, the tones of the voices and things. Once you get to about a third, it feels like it's comfortable, but early on, I always was very conscious of it and conscious of the obligation to do well, because I was being judged not only for myself, but for an entire group of people. And so, I was sensitive to that, and wanted to make sure that I didn't, like — “Don't shame the family,” right? So make sure that you keep the doors open. As far as legacy is concerned, and I think back in my time as Air Force secretary, I would say there's two things that I hope linger, and they have so far. One is a change to the promotion system to make sure that we have the right kind of talent to choose from at all levels in the organization, and so that, I think, has continued to persist. And the other one that will be changed over time and has to be changed over time, had to do with the science and technology strategy of the Air Force and the need to stay ahead of adversaries. I think this is a completely separate conversation, but I actually think that that we are at greater risk of scientific and technical surprise today than at any time since the end of the Second World War. And if you go back and read books about engineers of victory, or there's a whole lot of books about how science and technology was brought to bear in prevailing in the Second World War. I think we're at risk now in a way that we've kind of become complacent about. So, science and technology strategy is something that I hope is a legacy.   Naviere Walkewicz  39:36 That's amazing, ma'am. And I think not only for our military, but you're able to influence that in the spaces that you are now.   Dr. Heather Wilson  39:43 Yeah, engaging the next generation, which is a heck of a lot of fun. You know, the University of Texas at El Paso is a wonderful institution — 25,000 students, half of them are the first in their families to go to college. About 70% or so come from families making less than about $45,000 a year. So, this is a university that transforms lives, and it's a university that — of my 25,000 students, over 5,000 are studying engineering. Another couple thousand are studying science, College of Nursing, College of Education. This has a tremendous impact on the region and on the lives of those who choose to educate themselves. And so it's a wonderful mission to be part of, and I think it's important for the nation. I think regions of the world who choose to educate their people in the 21st century will thrive, and those that don't are going to be left behind, and that's why I do what I do.   Naviere Walkewicz  40:44 Well, it clearly aligns with your foundation and your mission, ma'am, and I think that's outstanding. We're going to ask for Dr. Wilson's final thoughts next, but before we do, I'd like to take a moment and thank you for listening to Long Blue Leadership. The podcast publishes Tuesdays in both video and audio and is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Be sure to watch, listen and subscribe to all episodes of Long Blue Leadership at longblueleadership.org. So, Dr. Wilson, I would love to take a moment to gather some of your final thoughts, what you'd like to share today.   Dr. Heather Wilson  41:21 Well, assuming that most of the folks who listen to this are either cadets or young officers or grads, I leave them with one thought, and that is, don't shame the family. Don't shame the family. People will look up to you because you are an Air Force Academy graduate, or you are an Air Force cadet. The standard is higher, so live up to the standard.   Naviere Walkewicz  41:50 Ma'am, we started with you being direct. You ended direct. I think that is amazing. Thank you very much. Thanks for being on Long Blue Leadership.   Dr. Heather Wilson  41:58 My pleasure.     KEYWORDS leadership, Air Force Academy, integrity, mentorship, quality management, Dr. Heather Wilson, military service, personal growth, career journey, unexpected opportunities, leadership, integrity, family support, women in leadership, public service, legacy, mission-driven, personal growth, collaboration, Congress     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation    

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The Stasi used blackmail, intimidation, and imprisonment, as well as psychological manipulation, to target perceived dissidents. By the time the organisation's activities ended following the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, the Stasi was regarded as one of the most effective intelligence agencies of the Cold War ...

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HAS THE IRON CURTAIN RETURNED? 2/4: The Picnic:A Dream of Freedom and the Collapse of the Iron Curtain by  Matthew Longo  (Author) https://www.amazon.com/Picnic-Dream-Freedom-Collapse-Curtain/dp/0393540774/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= In August 1989, a group of Hungarian activists organized a picnic on the border of Hungary and Austria. But this was not an ordinary picnic―it was located on the dangerous militarized frontier known as the Iron Curtain. Tacit permission from the highest state authorities could be revoked at any moment. On wisps of rumor, thousands of East German “vacationers” packed Hungarian campgrounds, awaiting an opportunity, fearing prison, surveilled by lurking Stasi agents. The Pan-European Picnic set the stage for the greatest border breach in Cold War history: hundreds crossed from the Communist East to the longed-for freedom of the West. Drawing on dozens of original interviews―including Hungarian activists and border guards, East German refugees, Stasi secret police, and the last Communist prime minister of Hungary―Matthew Longo tells a gripping and revelatory tale of the unraveling of the Iron Curtain and the birth of a new world order. Just a few months after the Picnic, the Berlin Wall fell, and the freedom for which the activists and refugees had abandoned their homes, risked imprisonment, sacrificed jobs, family, and friends, was suddenly available to everyone. But were they really free? And why, three decades since the Iron Curtain was torn down, have so many sought once again to build walls? Cinematically told, The Picnic recovers a time when it seemed possible for the world to change. With insight and panache, Longo explores the opportunities taken―and the opportunities we failed to take―in that pivotal moment. 1904 SERBIA CORONATION