New Conversations About Abortion: The ProGrace Podcast

Denise and Angie talk with Anne Waddell, former Executive Director of Central Alberta Pregnancy Care Centre in Canada and current Director of Outreach with ProGrace. Anne has an incredible passion to have conversations not only with Christians but throughout our communities. When she talks, people are inspired to look at the issue of abortion in a new way - you will be. too!

Skye Jethani created a video on abortion and politics for the Holy Post podcast which came out a month before the November 2020 election and received 1 million views. Angie asks him about the responses to his video from Christians, and what that means for us moving forward. You can watch Skye's video here: https://www.holypost.com/post/but-what-about-abortion

In the midst of the debate around how Supreme Court Justices and the President impact abortion laws, Angie, Denise, Lacey, and Krysta talk about what it would mean for Christians if Roe vs. Wade was overturned and abortion was suddenly illegal. To do this, we unpack the questions: What is our primary responsibility as followers of Christ? What is Jesus calling us to do? And what's going to bring the most positive change?

Angie and Denise are joined by Lacey Mason and Krysta Masciale, our new ProGrace team members. We talk about how exhausting it can feel to be passionate about new conversations around abortion during a divisive election season. And we talk about how we've been navigating that.

Tim Ahlman and Jake Boessling pastor Christ's Greenfield Lutheran Church in Gilbert, AZ. They want to reflect the heart of Jesus in how they address abortion in their church, and talk about the journey they have been on to do that. They also host their own podcast, Lead Time, so we talk about leadership practices that help us all enter into difficult topics and try to engage them like Jesus would.

Jeff Logsdon is lead pastor of Hope City Church in Tucson, AZ. He has been on this ProGrace journey with us for the past 2 years, and we are inspired by how he is making his church a safe place for anyone during an unintended pregnancy or after an abortion. And his journey starts with being honest about his own experience. We were blown away by the way he freely shared his story with us, and we know you will be, too! Jeff shows us what can happen when we have the courage to look inside first. The change starts with us...

Tammy Abernethy is the Executive Director/CEO of Hope Women's Center, a Christian non-profit organization in the Phoenix area that provides vulnerable women and teen girls with education, mentoring, and support. Tammy has a lot of discussion with church leaders, and sees what keep Christians from engaging in conversations about unintended pregnancy and abortion. Can "grace go too far?" Do we need to focus on "sin" and "brokenness"? Are we the ones who are to judge? And what about people who feel like "the church doesn't want me?" We talk about it!!

We're back with Laura McAlpine! Because she asked us at the end of Episode 4, "why don't you ever ask me the hard questions?" So we did. We tell Laura the number one stereotype we hear from Christians about folks who are pro-choice. She is surprised, and takes us on her journey of being a doula, leading a women's health center, and a self-described "birth junkie."

Laura McAlpine is Principal of McAlpine Consulting for Growth, and works with us to build bridges in the abortion conversation. She is pro-choice and doesn't identify as Christian. Denise and Angie are Christians creating this new space of ProGrace. Laura listened to all our Season 1 podcasts to see where pro-choice and/or people not of the Christian tradition would be triggered by those conversations. And she tells us in this podcast!

Amy is the Co-Founder and President of Embrace Grace, a non-profit that inspires and equips the church to love on single and pregnant young women and their families. When Amy became pregnant at 19, her boyfriend Ryan approached his mentor, but he refused to marry them because "they had sinned." They continued going to church after getting married, but felt alone in a crowd of people because no one knew what to say. Years later, Ryan's mentor approached them asking for forgiveness. It's amazing to us how readily Amy and Ryan forgave him! This whole experience is woven into all that Embrace Grace does, and the passion they share with ProGrace to see the church become the safest place for pregnant women.

Tracey Laroche and Jeanelle Drysdale Miller are the hosts of the web series, Life with Tray and Jea. They are both Caribbean African American and from Brooklyn - Denise and Angie are white and from Illinois. So we asked them to be really honest with us about what would make it hard for Christians from different ethnic backgrounds to work together to have new conversations about abortion. We know this won't be the last time we have a conversation about this! It's SO important, and we gave each other grace to be honest, which made this conversation freeing, nor scary. The only way we can move forward is to have these types of interactions, so we look forward to having each other “in our kitchen” and building true community.

Jonathan Merritt is an award-winning writer on religion, culture, and politics. He also describes himself as a Christian mystic, so we loved this thoughtful conversation about: - How a white man can have a humble posture in the abortion conversation - Asking questions like Jesus did - Walking with people who are facing an abortion decision -Why the words pro-life and pro-choice are effective but not precise - How something being a "fact" is different than it being the "whole truth"

Dr. Juli Slattery, founder of Authentic Intimacy and host of the Java with Juli podcast, interviews Angie on current events. We talk about the recent abortion laws, both pro-life and pro-choice, wrestling through how much of our Christian response to abortion has been political. We also talk about the movie, "Unplanned."

Dr. Juli Slattery is founder of Authentic Intimacy and host of the Java with Juli podcast. Angie asks her the tough questions around why we are mostly silent on sexuality in the church - until a woman faces an unintended pregnancy. Juli has such a rich perspective on grace, God's intentionality for sex, and how we can all move toward wholeness - together. It's not us vs. them. It's us. When we can admit that we all face sexual brokenness on some level, we can begin to journey together.

Brian Kruckenberg is Lead Pastor and JJ Spreitzer is Family Ministries Director at New City Church in Phoenix. They are on a journey of asking questions, listening, helping their congregation process the abortion issue, and changing the conversation in their church. We talk about grace, mistakes, labels and God's transformational journey for all of us.

Lacey Mason is a qualitative researcher and strategic consultant. She has conducted 6 research projects with women facing unintended pregnancy, even though she initially dreaded diving into the topic because of the political tension. Based on this research, she helps us process and more deeply understand a woman's reality. Understanding leads to empathy, and empathy changes how we think and talk about abortion. Which can ultimately elevate the conversation out of politics and into supporting individuals.

This is the second part of our conversation with Laura McAlpine, where we talk about how we can shatter the pro-life and pro-choice stereotypes that keep us from talking to people who have differing views on abortion. This is the journey we all have been on, so we know others can go on it, too!

Laura is Principal of McAlpine Consulting for Growth in Chicago. We met her 8 years ago, when we were leading a Christian pregnancy organization. We quickly found out she was strongly pro-choice, disagreed with the practices of our organization, and had even tried to shut down our organization years before. Whaat?! With a lot of laughter, we talk about how we met, why we kept on talking, what triggered us - and why we are now good friends who work together to help others find common ground.

Dennae is Executive Director of Surge Network, Tyler is Lead Pastor of Redemption AZ, and they partner together to help pastors lead healthy churches. We talk about why they want to have a new conversation in Arizona churches - one where we humanize the abortion issue by interacting with people who have different views and/or experiences than we have had. They also share how they have created a healthy working relationship amidst the current tensions around men and women working together in churches.

Chris is the CEO of Avail, an organization supporting women facing unintended pregnancy in New York City. We talk about her reaction to the abortion law passed in New York, and what it tells us about real human needs in our culture. And how Jesus responded when He encountered people in need.

Talitha Phillips is CEO of Claris Health LA (an organization that equips and cares for individuals and families before, during and after pregnancy or sexual-health choices), and Scott Mehl is Lead Pastor of Cornerstone Church West LA - and they have an amazing partnership. Scott has realized he can't stay silent and assume people will think the church has a holistic, nonpolitical view. But he has to present the complexity about all people involved in order to facilitate compassion. Talitha talks about how silence and fear of sharing our own personal experiences keeps Christians from extending grace to the people impacted by abortion.

Katelyn Beaty is a writer, a book author and an editor at Brazos Press. We met several years ago when she was the managing editor at Christianity Today (youngest and first female to have that position!). Katelyn describes herself as committed to women's rights and pro-life at the same time, and we explore how we as Christians can understand and value the woman - with a special invitation for Christian men to respectfully engage. She also talks about her desire to have common ground conversations with folks who are pro-choice and how we might do that.

We always appreciate Skye's ability to blend cultural and theological insight to address current issues - and he did not disappoint in this podcast! Drawing on Skye's knowledge of history, we talk about how outlawing something without addressing the true cause hasn't worked historically. And of course Skye blends that with a rich theological analysis of Jesus' ministry model, which we love, because who can argue with how Jesus did things?? We think you will love this conversation as much as we did!

We talk about how we stumbled into the pro-life/pro-choice debate, were a bit shocked, made a lot of mistakes and eventually landed in a place of wanting to have new conversations. Our journey has been impacted by our experience, our faith, and lots of discussion. If you've ever felt like trying to talk about abortion is a no-win situation, we've got a fresh take!