Podcast appearances and mentions of Oliver E Williamson

To close out 2025, I'd like to revisit a critical aspect that's being ignored – the economy itself. Ken Webster is a leading thinker in the circular economy field, and one of his many roles is with Earth4All, where he has been exploring the benefits of a Universal Basic Dividend. Ken and Catherine discussed this, and more aspects of circularity at an economic level back in 2023, and it's highly relevant today, as the challenges we face loom larger. Catherine says: Ken Webster is one of my circular economy heroes, and is widely acknowledged as one of the foremost thinkers in the field. From 2010 – 2018, Ken was Head of Innovation for the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, shaping current concepts of a ‘circular economy'.. Ken also co-wrote the book that first opened my eyes to the circular economy back in 2011 – Sense and Sustainability, co-written with Craig Johnson. One of Ken's best-known books, The Circular Economy: A Wealth of Flows, relates the connections between systems thinking, economic and business opportunity and the transition to a circular economy. I'm very keen to read one of Ken's most recent books, co-written with Alex Duff. Ken and Alex use a storytelling approach based on the The Wonderful Wizard of Oz to offer a new and compelling narrative about the future direction of our economy, calling for macro-economic system redesign. It's called The Wonderful Circles of Oz: A Circular Economy Story – you'll find links in the shownotes. Ken's written several more thought-provoking works on the circular economy, including ABC+D: Creating a Regenerative Circular Economy for All – also co-written with Craig Johnson, and we mention some of these as we go along. This was a wide-ranging conversation about system-scale issues and concepts. I tried my best to keep up with Ken's thinking as we explored some of the big ideas he has been working on, including: A Universal Basic Dividend – not to be confused with UBI, or Universal Basic Income. We discuss why a Universal Basic Dividend would be a good thing, how it would be funded and where the money would flow to. We move onto The Commons – what that really means, and how it could be better accommodated in our modern economies, in a meaningful and sustainable way. Ken talks about the rentier economy, and rentiers. If you're not familiar with that term, it's someone who earns income from capital without working – for example by owning property or land that is rented out to tenants; by owning shares or bonds that pay dividends or interest, and so on. We discuss why the economy isn't working for the vast majority of people around the world, and what's getting in the way of an ‘economy for all'. We talk about some of the signals for change, with people are starting to see the potential of a future with community, connection and caring – caring for each other, and for our Mother Earth. The potential of a future that's not all about ‘Work, Buy, Consume, Die'. I've split our conversation into two parts – the 2nd part is available here: 119 Bonus Ken Webster: the circular ECONOMY! Part 2 International speaker, author and strategic advisor, Catherine Weetman helps people discover why circular, regenerative and fair solutions are better for people, planet – and prosperity. Catherine’s award-winning book: A Circular Economy Handbook: How to Build a More Resilient, Competitive and Sustainable Business includes lots of practical examples and tips on getting started.  Apple Podcasts Spotify Stay in touch for free insights and updates…  Read on for more on our guest and links to the people, organisations and other resources we mention. Links for our guest: LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/ken-webster-28825110 Email: ken@circulareconomy.co.uk Books, people and organisations we mentioned Some of Ken’s books: The Wonderful Circles of Oz: A Circular Economy Story, by Ken Webster and Alex Duff – a new and compelling narrative about the future direction of our economy, calling for macro-economic system design. https://www.routledge.com/The-Wonderful-Circles-of-Oz-A-Circular-Economy-Story/Webster-Duff/p/book/9781032109107 and https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-wonderful-circles-of-oz-a-circular-economy-story-ken-webster/18110152?ean=9781032109107 The Circular Economy: A Wealth of Flows by Ken Webster (2nd edition) https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-circular-economy-a-wealth-of-flows-2nd-edition-revised-preface-and-conclusion-plus-additional-chapter-ken-webster/6577289?ean=9780992778460 ABC&D by Craig Johnson and Ken Webster https://bookshop.org/p/books/abc-d-creating-a-regenerative-circular-economy-for-all-craig-johnson/17863262 People and organisations Earth4all – a vibrant collective of leading economic thinkers, scientists, and advocates, convened by The Club of Rome, the BI Norwegian Business School, the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research and the Stockholm Resilience Centre. Building on the legacies of The Limits to Growth and the Planetary Boundaries frameworks, science is at the heart of our work. Leading scientists have developed state of the art systems dynamic models and run different scenarios for possible plausible futures. https://earth4all.life/ Michel Bauwens and the Peer to Peer Foundation – http://p2pfoundation.net David Bollier – news and perspectives on the commons – https://www.bollier.org/ Christian Felber’s book Change Everything: Creating an Economy for the Common Good https://christian-felber.at/en/books/ Guy Standing – https://www.guystanding.com/ and a short YouTube video on rentier capitalism – The Wealth Paradox https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ5gAiY5-ZY Massimo de Angelis, author of The Beginning of History: Value Struggles and Global Capital, and editor of The Commoner web journal, at http://commoner.org.uk. Elinor Ostrom – awarded the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 2009 for her “analysis of economic governance, especially the commons”, which she shared with Oliver E. Williamson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom 119 Bonus Ken Webster: the circular ECONOMY! Part 2  in Part 2 we explore concepts for a critical element – the economy itself! Guest bio Ken Webster is a Visiting Professor at Cranfield University and a Fellow of CISL (Cambridge University Institute for Sustainability Leadership). From 2010 – end 2018 he was Head of Innovation for the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, a circular economy pioneer organization, where he helped shape current notions of a ‘circular economy'. More recently he has worked at Univ of Exeter Business School (2019-2021). Ken was awarded a DSc from Univ. of Brighton in 2023. His book The Circular Economy: A Wealth of Flows (2nd Edition 2017) relates the connections between systems thinking, economic and business opportunity and the transition to a circular economy. He makes regular contributions to conferences and seminars around the world. His current interests include; open vs closed circular economy approaches, construction and the built environment, extended producer ownership and materials data management. Ken is on the supervisory board of the Madaster Foundation in Amsterdam – a materials passport organisation. He contributed to the new Handbook of the Circular Economy (Eds. Alexander, Pascucci and Charnley (2023) and was a contributor and editor on Earth for All from the Club of Rome. He is a lead author on circular economy for UNEP’s GEO-7 report (in development). A recent book with an emphasis on exploring different scales, especially in food and agriculture is ABC&D Creating a Regenerative Circular Economy for All (with Craig Johnson) (2022) Please let us know what you think of the podcast – and we'd love it if you could leave us a review on iTunes, or wherever you find your podcasts.  Or send us an email… Click here to search for previous episodes

0:00 Intro.1:42 Start of interview2:26 Stilpon's "origin story". He grew up in Greece and studied law at the University of Thessaloniki. He later got an LLM at Harvard Law School. He practiced corporate law in Greece, but left the country permanently in the mid 1980s. He joined the OECD where he became the first Head of the Corporate Affairs Division. In that position, he lead the team which produced the OECD Principles of Corporate Governance (1999). "The corporate governance issues were very linked to the privatization issues at the time." He later left the OECD in Paris to London, where he started his own firm.9:36 The origin of his firm Nestor Advisors in 2002. "The idea was to advise companies and their boards on corporate governance matters, since they needed the advice." "The focus initially was on emerging markets, then on OECD markets." Banking is the core sector that they address  ("at least 2/3 of our clients are banks.") "Personally, my two areas of focus are the private family, and the banks."14:15 On the acquisition of Nestor Advisors by Morrow Sodali in 2021. "The sale of Nestor Advisors was always part of my horizon for two reasons: 1) I wanted an exit, and 2) the firm needed to be a part of something bigger in order to go to the next level."18:04 On the debate of the purpose of the corporation (the shareholder vs stakeholder debate). The BRT '19 restatement that reignited the debate in the U.S. (see Marty Lipton vs Bebchuk). "Milton Friedman said that the social responsibility of the corporation was to increase profits, and that is not a purpose (it's a responsibility)." "The first responsibility for a private economic institution like a corporation is indeed to be profitable (if it's not profitable over time, it goes down and it will not achieve any other purpose." "The process for a company outlining its purpose might be a useful thing, for its strategic focus and as a communications tool."24:47 On ESG: "the European approach is different to the US. The latter has more of a market approach with pressure from institutional investors and other market actors, whereas the EU is treating this more as an issue of regulation. There is emerging set of rules that are quite tough, such as with the new directive on disclosure of sustainability, disclosure on how to get to net-zero for investors, EU taxonomy of sustainable activities, the obligation of companies to do due diligence on everything that has to do with sustainability.29:33 On companies withdrawing from Russia due to the conflict in Ukraine. (see Jeffrey Sonnenfeld's list from Yale, over 400 companies have withdrawn at the time of this writing). Example of Raiffeisen Bank (largest foreign bank in Russia).32:36 How in the current environment CEOs have to make more "geopolitical" decisions or deal with "stakeholder issues" that impact society. "They have become mini statesmen or stateswomen." "I am skeptical about whether these kind of decisions should be put on the shoulders of CEOs and boards, at what point will they loose their purpose?" "I have a fear that we are putting an enormous amount of power in the hands of CEOs and corporations because we expect them to become statesmen/stateswomen." "I am reading this in a pessimistic way, it's a weakening of public institutions in the U.S."36:23 How the practice of corporate governance has changed in the last 20 years particularly given the current trends of CEO/boards "managing externalities." ("corporations are not anymore simple economic institutions") [Here is a good WSJ article on this subject].39:10 On governance of private companies and the rise of private markets [in the U.K. and E.U.] The LSE's allowance of dual-class stock to attract new listings.44:46 New board trends highlighted by Stilpon:"After the financial crisis, and for the last 20 years, we have seen boards face more demands to become more intrusive. This has increased particularly in the financial sector." "European boards are loosing the strategy perspective, and I think the pendulum has swung too far. We will start seeing boards act with more reflection in times of radical uncertainty.""The pandemic gave boards the opportunity to review their working methods, now we see more "monochromatic" meetings: small focused seminars/meetings on specific and strategic areas." "I call this the distributed board model."  "You break up the agenda into reflection chunks.""With all the technology changes, boards will be in a position to challenge the assumptions that AI or other data sources will provide."49:12 Stilpon's favorite books :Democracy in America, by Alexis de Tocqueville (1830s) "He did not shy away from finding the worst and the best, and how these two combine - it's amazingly current."Markets and Hierarchies (1975) and The Economic Institutions of Capitalism (1985), by Oliver E. Williamson.On the Road, by Jack Kerouac (1957).51:00 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them? Robert Clark, at Harvard Law School.Ira Millstein, from Weil Gotshal & Manges. "He taught me perseverance."His mother, who was a Professor of Anthropology "she taught me all I know about focusing on the clarity of language."53:04 - Are there any quotes you think of often, or live your life by? From 8th century BC, a pre-Socratic saying: "Pan Metron" "You need measure"From the Rolling Stones: "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you'll get what you need." "This has been a motto in my life."53:47 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: He washes the dishes and pans first thing in the morning. 54:19 - The living person he most admires: Bob Bylan. [Stilpon is a also a musician, and he's recorded 5 albums! Check it out]Stilpon Nestor is the Executive Chairman of Morrow Sodali for EMEA. He is also the Executive Chairman and founder of Nestor Advisors, a company that Morrow Sodali acquired in early 2021. __ You can follow Evan on social media at:Twitter: @evanepsteinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/__Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

21 MAYIS 2021 DÜNYA TARİHİNDE BUGÜN YAŞANANLAR 1881 - Amerikan Kızılhaçı, Clara Barton tarafından kuruldu. 1900 - Rusya, Çin'deki Boxer ayaklanmasını bahane ederek Mançurya'yı işgale başladı. TÜRKİYE TARİHİNDE BUGÜN YAŞANANLAR 1847 - Tapu ve Kadastro Genel Müdürlüğü (Defterhane-iş Amire Kalemi) kuruldu. 1963 - Harp Okulu Komutanı Talat Aydemir, Anayasa'nın önerdiği bazı reformların gerçekleştirilmediği gerekçesiyle ikinci bir darbe girişiminde bulundu, fakat başarılı olamadı.  1997 - Yargıtay Cumhuriyet Başsavcısı Vural Savaş, Refah Partisi'nin Anayasa'nın laiklik ilkesine aykırı eylemlerin odağı haline geldiği gerekçesiyle sürekli kapatılması istemiyle Anayasa Mahkemesi'ne dava açtı. 2004 - Cumhurbaşkanı Ahmet Necdet Sezer, Anayasa değişikliğini onayladı ve Devlet Güvenlik Mahkemeleri (DGM) kaldırıldı. BUGÜN DOĞANLAR  1527 -  İspanya Kralı II. Felipe, doğdu. 1947 - Türk akademisyen ve tarihçi İlber Ortaylı, dünyaya geldi. 1968 - Türk dağcı, yazar ve fotoğrafçı Nasuh Mahruki, doğdu. BUGÜN ÖLENLER 1967- Nurettin Baransel, Türk asker ve Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri'nin 7. Genelkurmay Başkanı Nurettin Baransel, vefat etti. 2020 - Amerikalı ekonomist ve Nobel Ekonomi Ödülü sahibi Oliver E. Williamson, hayatını kaybetti.

Today I spoke with Michael Heller about the book he has just published with James Salzman. The title is Mine!: How the Hidden Rules of Ownership Control Our Lives (Doubleday, 2021) Michael Heller at Columbia University is Professor of Real Estate Law. Before joining Columbia Law in 2002, you taught at the University of Michigan, NYU, UCLA, and Yale Law Schools. Prior to entering academia, you worked at the World Bank on post-socialist legal transition and you even served as a law clerk at the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. James Salzman is the Donald Bren Distinguished Professor of Environmental Law with joint appointments at the UCLA and UC Santa Barbara. He was formerly at Duke University. His book, Drinking Water: A History, was reviewed and praised in the New York Times and Washington Post. Ownership rules have been a key topic in economics and law since the establishment of the disciplines, with economics being much more junior than law. Recently Law and economics or economic analysis of law have become an important field. Ownership rules are a key issue for Marx, John R. Commons, Oliver E. Williamson, Henry Hanssman. The authors themselves are very erudite academics that have chosen to write a book based on their research but very accessible to everyone in the style of Freakonomics. The book is about 300 pages, 7 chapters and one epilogue. They reveal six simple stories everyone uses to claim everything. Owners choose the rule that steers us to do what they want. But we can pick a different rule. As Heller and Salzman show, ownership is always up for grabs. Ownership is not simple, natural. It is intrinsically controversial and linked to inequality. We started our conversation with children arguing for the ownership of a toy at the playground and we ended talking about the tax and ownership regime in South Dakota. “Mine” is one of the first words babies learn. By the time we grow up, the idea of ownership seems natural, whether we are buying a cup of coffee or a house. But who controls the space behind your airplane seat: you reclining or the squished laptop user behind you? Why does HBO look the other way when you illegally borrow a password to stream their shows? And after a snowstorm, why does a chair in the street hold your parking space in Chicago, but in New York you lose the space and the chair? This is a very nice book that many will enjoy reading and is advertised by a very cool website with videos that allow you to meet the authors: https://www.minethebook.com/videos/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We wrap up our discussion of Oliver E. Williamson's famous 1981 article, "The Economics of Organization: The Transaction Cost Approach" with an exploration of related works and on-going research. Included is a review of Tom Malone et al.'s predictive look at "Electronic Markets and Electronic Hierarchies," written in 1987 when the promises of information technology were becoming reality. How well did their predictions hold up 30 years later?

Please join us as continue our discussion of Oliver E. Williamson's famous 1981 article, "The Economics of Organization: The Transaction Cost Approach." Williamson proposed several important constructs in the article such as the 'efficient boundary' and how asset specificity shapes organizational behaviors. What did we think of these ideas?

Following on a theme from the previous episode, we explore an important reading that bridges organization theory with economics. This was the explicit aim of Oliver E. Williamson’s famous article, “The Economics of Organization: The Transaction Cost Approach,” published in the American Journal of Sociology in 1981. The article begins with a statement that the assumption of firms operating on a profit motive has not helped organization theorists understand and explain the behaviors of firms, and that economists were also finding themselves similarly limited. He thus set out on a different path and argued that transactions, not the products or services the firm provides, is a better unit of analysis.In the discussion, we wrestle with Williamson’s central arguments and proposals, such as the construct of the efficient organizational boundary, human asset specificity and the difference types of governance structures related to it, and how markets and hierarchies represent different choices for organizing. We also explored a related article presenting early thoughts about the growing impact of rapid advances in information technology on firm and market structures. Written in 1987, Tom Malone et al.’s “Electronic Markets and Electronic Hierarchies” presages the modern online economic environment and its many virtual interactions between seller and buyers. This fascinating extension of Williamson’s ideas made a number of predictions. How many came true 30 years later?

Oliver E. Williamson de l'Université de Californie (Berkeley) a obtenu en 2009 le prix Nobel d'économie pour ses travaux sur « la gouvernance économique », c'est à dire la manière dont on organise et régule l'échange et la production. Il est considéré comme un spécialiste de la gouvernance. Diplômé du prestigieux MIT, il commence sa carrière comme ingénieur de projets pour le gouvernement américain. Il découvre la diversité des environnements institutionnels et des modes d'organisation de l'activité économique et se tourne alors vers l'économie et la gestion. Dès lors, il voit l'entreprise comme une structure complexe où s'imbriquent relations contractuelles et hiérarchie.

Oliver E. Williamson de l'Université de Californie (Berkeley) a obtenu en 2009 le prix Nobel d'économie pour ses travaux sur « la gouvernance économique » c'est à dire la manière dont on organise et régule l'échange et la production. Il est considéré comme un spécialiste de la gouvernance. Diplômé du prestigieux MIT, il commence sa carrière comme ingénieur de projets pour le gouvernement américain. Il découvre la diversité des environnements institutionnels et des modes d'organisation de l'activité économique et se tourne alors vers l'économie et la gestion. Dès lors, il voit l'entreprise comme une structure complexe où s'imbriquent relations contractuelles et hiérarchie.