No Small Thing

no small thing is back?!! we've got another conversation with scott (he/him) and daniel (they/them), exploring how these enneagram ideas we hear about - passion, essence, ego, instinct, our type and wing, trifix if you're into that - how they all fit together. daniel has been studying misinformation in enneagram theories for the past few years, and on our instagram @nosmallenneagram, they share their opinions, critiques, and reasoning about the ways we've come to misunderstand the enneagram. in this episode, we're examining the relationship between essence and instinct. some of our ideas may seem strange or wrong compared to how you're used to thinking about the enneagram, but we invite you to be > less certain < more curious > with us, and come along for the discussion with us!

For 4 years we have been up every Thursday night to have a curious conversation! If you have been on the journey with us we are so grateful! In this episode we spend some time reminiscing about the past by listening to clips from previous episodes and reacting to them. We had a blast and we hope you do to! Here's to another 4 years of curious conversation!

As usual we choose a random topic that seems to be catching our attention lately and we have a conversation! A month or two ago Mace made a playlist for Scott that culminating with an inspiring song on ENERGY! Also in a meta sense with Scott and Mace haven't had as much energy for the pod as they would like because of their outside commitments (school and work). Where does on energy come from? What gives us energy? What IS energy! Hope you enjoy this casual playful conversation as well as some inspiring music!

Ambivalence is something that all of us experience probably every second of our day. And its also one of those words that, upon further inquiry, get misused and misunderstood. Of course we need to take some time to chat about it and of course we wanted more out of this conversation, but it was a good start. And heads up! This convo got cut off somehow during recording so you don't get the juicy conclusions! But there is over 60 minutes of fun curious content for you all!

Welcome to our THIRD conversation on fashion! This one is pretty low key, but there was so much to catch up on! We address how our fashion has been evolving, how quarantine impacted our fashion choices, and what we think it ALL MEANS! There will definitely be more to come in the future, but this is restarting convo!

Welcome to the Enneagram! It has been well over a year since we halted are pattern of talking about the enneagram every 5 episodes. It was a necessary break because we came to a profound realization that The Enneagram was way more complicated and mysterious than we had appreciated...even though did really appreciate how mysterious and complicated it was! One of the many things we started to realize is that many of the modern teachers that we had been following are probably not teaching The Enneagram very well. So we needed to take a break and reset and figure out how we were going to approach The Enneagram with a new posture of even more curiosity. Since Mace is in grad school to be a therapist they are maxed out on talking about the inner self and so we are inviting our good good friend Daniel Keyes to be our resident ennea expert for the foreseeable future! This episode is a little less focused than what we intend to do with the enneagram episodes moving forward, but we thought this we be a great conversation to highlight where we are at and where we want to go...and also just give you a chance to get to know Daniel a little bit.

We could not be more thrilled to introduce you to one of our favorite people- Taylor Emmaus! We connected with Taylor Emmaus through our online affirming youth group and they have been volunteering with us for well over a year. They are a wise soul who has so much good stuff to share! They chose the topic of INTROSPECTION and we gave this word/ topic the full NST treatment!

Ironically our conversation about awkwardness gets awkward because we can't seem to agree on what awkward is! Scott gets lost talking about things he experiences as awkward only to discover that he's mostly just talking about being a jerk! Luckily Mace gets us back on track with some clear and humorous thoughts on the subject! We loved our time deep diving Grae but we are so pumped to be back to our normal routines of getting into the weeds of topics that are begging to be mined for insight! Hope you enjoy!

We are back!!! After months of temporarily focusing on Grae by Moses Sumney we are choosing to have our first conversation about one of our favorite topics: PLAY. Have a spirit in play in conversations, relationships, work, and life in general has tremendous mental health benefits and could be a cure for a lot of the rigid toxic certainty many of us experience. But what is play? And how do we get into a play state? Can we be playful talking about play? Listen to find out!

And now we come to the end...for now. Our Moses Sumney takeover is winding down friends! We plan on returning for a true finale recap episode on about 3 months, but this episode deep dives the last two tracks on Grae. We share about the impact this album has had on us and we vibe out to Before you Go. Thank you for joining us on this journey! It has a wild wild ride journeying into the grae with y'all and Moses!

And so we come to ......the second to last episode of our Moses Sumney series! We're winding down with some quite calm reflective energy in Lucky Me this week....a sweet nostalgic acceptance...co written by James Blake Lucky Me is simultaneously filled ache and gratitude. And So I come to Isolation is another spoken word that rounds out and book ends the album with some final reflections on what it means to be isolated...placed here in the album- after listening to the majority of the songs- this piece takes on new meaning. One episode left! Thank you for being on this journey with us!

Many songs on Grae could be called the "emotional climax"...and Me in 20 Years would be a top contender. Its followed by a wonderful light release of a song called Keeps me Alive. The one/two combo of things songs is deep existential anxiety combined with a light playful come down that helps recenter the listener and grounds them for the final journey of this outstanding album. We have two episodes left of our season with Grae and we are already getting nostalgic and sentimental about our time with Moses. We hope this helps you y'all appreciate these songs a bit more this week!

We are now on the second "disc" of Grae and we start with two JUGGERNAUTS this week. Two Dogs and Bystanders are both full of intense longing and lament and draw listeners into a more intimate type of inner torment. After the big bang of the first half of Grae we now enter into a more moody, somber, emotional, reflective state. There is an ache and worry to these songs. Important stuff for the overall impact of Grae! We hope you enjoy the conversation!

182: Neither/ Nor/ Polly by No Small Thing Podcast

The Moses Sumney deep dive continues with an exploration of two very different tracks. Colouour is a vibrant, energetic breathe of fresh air with some very personal and tender questions from Moses (perhaps posed to himself) about how to present oneself and what colors to use. Also also also and and and (according to Mace) is the thesis statement of the album and features soundbites from Taye Selassie and Ezra Miller. This track highlights multiplicity (one of our favorite topics and the pod) and literally demands that others see our inherit multiplicity. Of course we have to deep dive all these things and also play you all some clips that we think influenced these tracks! Thanks for being along for the ride with us!

Fresh off of getting some shout outs from Moses himself on his instagram we are BACK with a deep dive on two very different tracks: Gagarin and Jill/ Jack. Gagarin is a spacey moody grandiose meditation on wanting to live for something beyond oneself probably inspired by the first human to go into space: Yuri Gagarin. Jill/ Jack is a playful meditation on gender and, among other things, how we have the potential to embody or perform both masculinity and femininity.

Here we go to into the Grae! This week we take a look at two epic songs that are also seemingly blended together. What does it mean to be a Conveyor? Is is a vocation that sets one up to be a messenger to the masses or is it the sense that we are all zombies on a conveyor belt? Is it both or something in between? What do we do with the boxes and labels that we put ourselves and others in! Moses and a cast of very talented and important thinkers/ artists have some thoughts for you and so do we! Hope you enjoy this episode!

Our deep dive of Moses Sumney's album Grae continues to two VERY contrasting songs this week- In Bloom and Virile. In Bloom is a slow etherial song full of heartache and longing focusing on something that seems like unrequited love while Virile is a charged up anthem that protests and mocks toxic masculinity. We had a ton of fun wondering together about the themes of these two tracks and the thoughts and feelings that arose for us!

Our first official deep dive into the music of Moses Sumney's epic double album officially begins! These week we take a look at the first two opening tracks of Grae: Insula and Cut Me!

Moses Sumney is a musician who creates music and art that invites deep exploration and curiosity. As a podcast dedicated to curiosity we decided to get curious about a single album for 3 months and we chose Grae by Moses Sumney. In this episode we explain our intentions for this journey and provide a short introduction to Moses and his music. We also sample a few of his songs from his debut album- Aromanticism. Music has an ability to seep into our psyche and soul in such a unique way. The more we spend time with works like Grae the more we discover about the album and ourselves. We couldn't be more excited to embark on this musical journey with you all!

This week we are joined by Brian Pendergast who is a licensed therapist with training in the psychoanalytic tradition. Brian will soon be releasing a book on multiplicity and we had to take the opportunity to chat with him about his insights. The idea that multiple selves reside inside us that invite curiosity and attention is, of course, something that has become increasingly captivating to us. In this episode you will hear Brian unpack what it means to be multiple and how to approach and talk about our various inner selves. The conversation around multiplicity is another excellent tool for getting curious about ourselves and who we are! We can't wait to have Brian on again someday!

Do you ever stop and notice all the fascinating variety in the way that people cross the street!? Does it ever make you laugh or angry or confused? How do YOU cross the street? Are you nervous? Apologetic? Clueless? The way people cross the crosswalk needs to be discussed! We need to get to the bottom of what the heck is going on with people's crosswalk personas and habits! Luckily you have some podcasters in your life who are willing to deep dive this topic! Get ready for some hot takes on crossing the crosswalk!

Free association is the expression of the content of consciousness without censorship as an aid in gaining access to unconscious processes. The technique is used in psychoanalysis which was originally devised by Sigmund Freud. What a fantastic tool for curiosity, right!? It is said that our unconscious is not buried inside our mind somewhere, but rather on the surface of our every day speech. We continue to try and experiment with different modes of curiosity and its actually shocking that we haven't explored this one yet! We will deep dive free association and explain why we think its important plus things get really crazy when we each take 10 minutes to free associate ourselves! Hope you enjoy!

Today's episode is an extra light and playful episode where we discuss our opinions on lunch! WHEN does lunch happen and what makes the best type of lunch in terms of location/ company/ and food. Can lunch happen before noon? Is a soda a "drink snack" (Mace says yes Scott says no!)...and can you have breakfast for lunch? All these things will be discussed, but very few answers will be given!

In our third friendship episode we continue to try and ask significant questions about what friendship is and what makes a good friend! We read some fairly interesting quotes/ engage with listener comments/ and try to describe our own friendship!

Our series on defense mechanisms continues! On our sixth installment we decide to revisit one of the major core defense mechanisms: projection! Not only is projection an extremely prominent part of our everyday lives (meaning it impacts our relationships more than we probably realize!) we have also learned so much more about projection since we first started talking about it over three years ago! This episode is a humble description of projection, but even more than that is a deep engagement with what we are to do with the knowledge that we project as a defense against uncomfortable thoughts and feelings.

We are a curiosity podcast and the notion of "slippery slope" comes up a lot during our episodes as a phrase/ concept/ vibe/ FALLACY that inhibit curiosity and intellectual exploration. In this episode we playfully unpack our experience with this ubiquitous phrase and we also engage with our amazing treasure trove of listener comments! Listeners really came through with some amazing insights! Curiosity invites us to enter the "void" of unknowing so that we can discover new insights and the vague fear of a potential slippery slop (as funny as it is to unpack) can keep people from important insights and growth! Its No Small Thing!

Our whole podcast PROJECT is about how to help people be less certain and more curious. It starts with US. We are like mad scientists that test the experiments out on ourselves. We don't just want to advocate for and model curiosity- we want to come up with "hacks" that help us enter into curiosity in ways that that broaden our perspective and imagination. Dreams continue to captivate us as a method of tricking our waking minds into seeing things from a different perspective...a perspective that is more spacious and playful...and open to otherwise possibilities.

Synchronicity: the simultaneous occurrence of events which appear significantly related but have no discernible causal connection. (that's the dictionary definition of synchronicity, but of course there is more to it than that!). In this episode we deep dive the origins and multiple meanings of synchronicity and what it brings up for us. We get curious about if it's "real" or just a fun concept...is it a phenomenon of the mind? Is it magic? Is it divine? This conversation brings up all sorts of questions for us about belief and science and why we still feel like we need to somehow choose between the two. Maybe it's all "REAL".

166: Venting by No Small Thing Podcast

Our series on psychological concepts (instead of the enneagram for now!) continues with scapegoating!

This episode is basically us just going all in on curiosity and what it means to us. Barefoot to Emmaus is a podcast hosted by our dear friends- Char and Byron. It has big No Small Thing vibes in that it is long meandering conversations (typically about theology and faith) with two pals who like to get curious. This episode was actually an interview that we did with Byron and Char for their podcast, but we thought it was such a fun conversation that we would share with you all here!

Robyn Henderson-Espinoza, PhD is a Trans Latinx Scholar, Politicized Theologian, and Public Ethicist. They have a book coming out called Body Becoming which offers us a way of understanding the body beyond constructions-- political or medical-industrial-complex defined--toward cultivating the body as important in our endeavors to build a more inclusive vision for democracy. We talk about what it means to get curious about our bodies, our faith, our world...how to live a life of doubt and wonder, but also how to translate or embody that wonder in practical methods of creating change in the world. We are so excited to share this conversation!

162: Wonder, Fully Made LIVE by No Small Thing Podcast

We are throwing it back to an oldie but goodie, our episode on PLAY!! This is one of our favorite episodes from the archives where we unpack the wonders and discovery found in playing...and how its is NOT just for children...and invites us to be less certain MORE CURIOUS!

When was the last time you really stopped and wondered about breakfast? Isn't it fun to think that we can all set aside some time to really have these conversations!? In this episode we really get into some opinion and hot takes on why breakfast is so controversial! We talk about our own breakfast opinions and really deep dive all of the listener comments we got this week (we got a lot!).

George Weinberg describes Transference this was- it "may be seen as the patient's putting on a green lens on a light and shining it on the therapist. The therapist looks green to them, and that is that. No matter what color clothing the therapist puts on, they will continue to look green to the patient. To resolve a transference, the therapist must, by this analogy, help the patient appreciate that they are using a green lens, and help the patient change that lens." In this episode we deep dive transference! What is it and also how it might be impacting our daily lives!

Ashon Crawley is one of our absolute most favorite thinkers, writers, communicators, artists...all of that...Ashon graciously agreed to join us for our second annual "queer youth of faith day". This was an online festival designed to celebrate and empower queer youth of faith from all over the world. Ashon wrote a profoundly vulnerable and insightful piece for NPR about Lil Nas X's most recent single and video called "Montero". This episode is a live conversation with Ashon and several of the Beloved Arise youth for Queer Youth of Faith Day about Montero and the religious trauma that queer youth of faith often have to endure.

After three weeks of interview we are BACK with a curious and playful conversation about EMBARRASSMENT. What is it? How does it feel? How is embarrassment different from awkwardness or shame or guilt or fear? We delve into these questions and of course share some embarrassing stories of our own!

Rev. Ashley DeTar Birt (aka presbiqueerian aka Dr. Bailey) is one of our new co-laborers at Beloved Arise. This is a conversation about Ashley's journey of becoming the second ordained black queer woman in the Presbyterian Church U.S.A and also about approaching Christianity with curiosity and wonder and joy and humor and creativity. Can ordained clergy preach in drag!? Absolutely! We are so excited to share this conversation with you all!

About a year ago Kent Thomas started the Do Better Young Life campaign. The campaign aims to hold Young Life to a higher standard in regards to its treatment of queer youth. We believe that being less certain and more curious is what has the potential to change organizations like Young Life. Until then we are so grateful for people like Kent who creatively and winsomely speak truth to power. This episode is a candid interview with Kent regarding his journey and creating Do Better Young Life.

This week we have the absolute privilege of sharing what we hope to be many more conversations with our favorite "woo woo vibey-ass bitch"- KEVIN GARCIA. Kevin is a digital pastor who is helping change the way we engage with faith/ Christianity/ Jesus/ The Divine etc. We think they are a prophet. This is a classic no small thing style episode where we hear Kevin's journey and then really vibe out to some deep thoughts about "the self"/ toxic religion/ and of course embracing one's queerness.

One of the basic assumptions of Internal Family Systems (IFS) is that it is the nature of the mind to be subdivided into multiple parts or subpersonalities. These parts develop a complex pattern of interaction similar to how individuals in a family might interact, only internally. Much like a mosaic composed of multiple pieces that come together to create a singular work of art, the goal is to achieve balance and harmony with parts, appreciating the creative role each plays and helping each find its place in the system.

This week we deep dive emo punk gods- My Chemical Romance with our amazing friend Dante. Get ready for an episode of curious conversation about this mysterious (and underrated?) band and also an MCR listening party and some live covers!

In this episode we celebrate 3 years of doing one of the most fun and fulfilling things we've ever done! We look back at some of our favorite pod moments and reflect on this incredible journey we've been on. Hope you enjoy!

What are VIBES? Vibes seems to be a cool catch all word that we use for almost everything these days. "That's a vibe", "good vibes only", "I'm vibing", "I don't like that person's vibes"...what do we mean when we say we use this term!? What are its origins. Is it ultimately useful or is it so ubiquitous that its become useless!? Join us for this week's curious conversation about vibes!

Object relations is an excellent foundation to start talking about psychological concepts and modalities. This is our first deviation from the enneagram and we're hoping you like stepping into this new dimension with us! The dimension of starting to think about how our initial holding environments impacted our whole personality! Welcome to No Small Thing! lol!

We are huge fans of This Jungian Life! Its a podcast where three Jungian analysts talk about life, dreams, and how we grow! We we think paying attention to dreams is an excellent way to cultivate curiosity and this crew are some of the best in the game in terms of giving people the tools they need to learn from their dreams! We are so excited to share this conversation with you and hope for many more to come!

Vacation...or rest...or Sabbath...or blank space...etc. Join us this week as we explore the topic of taking a vacation. Both Scott and Mace are on their own breaks currently and thought it would be fun to do an episode unpacking this very thing. While we curiously unpack the concept of vacation, we spend most of our time being nostalgic and reminiscing on our own journey's pausing and exploring themes and stories. Join us on the porch for this one :)

148: Parties (Replay) by No Small Thing Podcast

Residing inside of all of us are a multitude of different "selves" that we can attend to if we so choose. In this episode we invite you all to get curious about your different selves- or "the other" or "others" within...