Citizens Of Nowhere

Carey hasn't been keeping up with the news so Nick does his best to walk him through the latest on the upcoming General Election. Along the way we find Carey's MP shutting down an opponent by accusing him of mansplaining, and the Prime Minister of Great Britain in what seems like a drunken tirade where he appears not to understand his own trade deal. We talk about tactical voting, how uninspiring all the options are, and get sidetracked by trying to order a pizza mid-episode.

Sometimes a movement, or a whole group of people, suffers from the actions of a few extremists in their midst. From feminism, through climate protesters to trans activists, to just men in general, there's always someone who provides opponents with all the ammunition they could ever want, by being unlikeable, unreasonable or just plain psychopathic. Nick and Carey set out to identify the 'bad apples' who skew the debate on both sides. That's the plan, anyway, but along the way they each get things wrong so embarrassingly that we may as well warn you about it now. Please don't judge the accuracy of all podcasts by the standards of this one.

‘Centrist’ is a dirty word in some quarters, but the centre is also where we’re always told all the important votes lie. What is Centrism? Are we Centrists? Or - more excitingly - are we ‘radical centrists’?Carey and Nick try to nail down ‘the Centre’, along the way pondering why some people get upset if you don’t buy ‘the whole package’, having no strong opinion about Greta Thunberg, and of course, the age-old Centrist question: what is a ‘reasonable number of Jews to kill’?

Konstantin Kisin is a stand-up comedian with an unusual back story. Born in the then Soviet Union, his family were forced to flee to the UK. Luckily, they had oligarch money. Until they lost it all. More recently, he acquired some notoriety after refusing to sign a 'behavioural agreement' before a student gig. His 2019 Edinburgh show, 'Orwell that Ends Well', was an impassioned defence of free speech, and was directed by previous Citizens of Nowhere interviewee, Andrew Doyle..Konstantin also co-hosts the ‘Triggernometry’ podcast with Francis Foster.

A government with no majority, an Opposition refusing to succumb to the offer of an election, 21 Tory rebels voting against their government, which reacts by effectively ending their careers, a Prime Minster who is saying he will defy the law, a Labour Party that says if they're in power they'll campaign against whatever deal they strike, lies, bluffs, double-bluffs...British politics is in a state of utter chaos. Nick and Carey finally manage to get together to try to make sense of it all.We put this one out quickly, but it's going out of date as you read these words. Read faster!The link to the YouTube video Nick was taking about:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBPZxbO7OLM

We’re 40 episodes old! To celebrate, it's another of the 'Nick in Edinburgh' interviews. This time, Nick chats with Andrew Doyle.Andrew is a comedian and writer, probably best known for his fictional creations, Jonathan Pie and Titania McGrath. He also writes a column for Spiked and runs the comedy club, Comedy Unleashed.This is a long chat (or two long chats with a break for tea) that takes in Edinburgh, comedy, free speech, democracy, Brexit (Andrew is pro-Brexit, unlike most comedic voices), being told you’re right-wing, alt-right or ‘alt-right adjacent’ when you’re left-of-centre, and what's happening/might end up happening, to the 'Woke' movement.

Nick is at the Edinburgh Festival. Carey isn't, so this is a chat between just Nick and comedian Simon Evans, during which they try to avoid spoilers about Simon's Edinburgh show, which contains some frankly astonishing revelations. Simon is one of those people you can just wind up and let talk, so this is a typically wide-ranging chat.

Yet again, it's that time of year when everyone in the comedy industry, except for Carey, heads up to Edinburgh (or down to Edinburgh, depending where you live [or stays in Edinburgh, if you already live there]) for the Fringe Festival.In this episode Nick and Carey talk about how long they've been going to the Fringe, their memories of early shows, how preview season works, how much the whole thing costs, and how the Free Fringe has changed it all.This year it's been even more difficult than usual to find affordable accommodation for performers over the Fringe, thanks to new rules about renting. We discuss that, reminisce about the time Carey put Nick's head in a guillotine, muse about the role of psychology in the bucket collection after a Free Fringe show and try to decide, ultimately, whether it's all worth it.

Britain has a new Prime Minister, and is about to have its hottest ever day. Nick and Carey take refuge in a friend’s flat in London and talk about what the hell is going on. They also discuss people using inaccurate quotations when it suits their tribe (Michael Gove didn’t exactly say that thing about people being sick of experts; Trump actually did condemn the white supremacists in Charlottesville; there’s a context for the oft-quoted lines used to paint Boris Johnson as a racist).Then they get onto comedy, magic and when you can be too dumbfounding for an audience.

As the Labour party continues to be mired in accusations of antisemitism, Carey talks Nick through some of the antisemitic tropes that crop up again and again.

Nick and Carey are joined by Kirsty Newton to talk about Boris Johnson, the frontrunner in the Tory leadership race and, therefore, the most likely next British Prime Minister.Recently, police were called to the flat of Johnson's girlfriend, Carrie Symonds, following a domestic disturbance. They were alerted by a neighbour, who also recorded the audio of the incident and then sent the recording the the Guardian newspaper. Nick and Carey discuss the rights and wrongs of all this, and the subsequent fallout - predictably split along tribal lines - with their guest, the brilliant Kirsty Newton.Kirsty is a musician, improviser, musical director and comedy performer (as in, a comedian but not a stand-up comic). She's performed with Rich Hall, Phil Nichol, Arthur Smith, Mitch Benn, the Comedy Store Players, and most recently toured the UK and Ireland with Paul Merton's Impro Chums. In her spare time, she's married to Nick.Along the way, they slightly despair of how someone so unsuited to power is about to get as much as they could ever want, and discuss the effects of private schooling on privilege and inequality.Oh, and there's a very silly bit where Kirsty tries to make a theme tune with a big roll of cardboard.

A bit of a sprawling episode, this, eventually getting round to the question: Is it ok to throw milkshake at your enemies? And, with regard to the fuss about some recent comments by Jo Brand, is it ok to joke about throwing battery acid instead?Along the way, we talk about trying out new material (Nick's just done his first Edinburgh Festival preview) and how surprisingly up-for-it an audience can be, even for very potentially divisive material (in this case, the question, 'Are trans women real women?').Carey has a horrible cold in this episode, so pleases wash your hands after listening.

These are strange times, whether you've already been born, haven't been born yet, or have died but are technically still Prime Minister.In this episode, we cover:How to set up a room for comedy; how Donald Trump is like a stand-up comedian; having a ghost Prime Minister; the Tory leadership election; citizens' juries (aka citizens’ assemblies); religious people's rights over their kids' education and, finally, abortion.In recent weeks, abortion rights have come under intense legislative attack in several US states. Less recently, Ireland finally managed to repeal its anti-abortion 8th amendment, following a citizens' assembly and a referendum.It's one of the most emotively divisive subjects in social policy - one where both sides are able to see the other as actually evil.Nick comes to this subject from the position of being a pro-choice atheist from a staunchly anti-abortion, religious family, and tends to think both sides talk past each other. So there's that angle, in case the prospect of two childless men discussing what they think about abortion wasn't enough to hook you in...

Is the Earth flat? No. So why do some people think it is?Nick and Carey watch the documentary 'Behind the Curve' so you don't have to (although feel free to; it's quite entertaining). It turns out they already know one of the people featured in it.Why do some people hold completely false beliefs? What can be done about it? Should anything be done? Does it really matter?

Nick's in London for a moment, so he and Carey take the opportunity to record an episode, this time about Danny Baker's unfortunate tweet of a picture of a chimp, titled 'The Royal Baby'. Let's be clear: neither of us think it was a good idea, but the ensuing storm and his incredibly quick sacking by the BBC are an interesting model of how quickly and unforgivingly the social media outrage machine operates.Is is possible to be accidentally racist? If you are, does that make you a racist? Are words or images racist in themselves, or does the intent matter? And if intent doesn't matter, where does that leave us?If you find these questions interesting, and think that listening to two stand-up comics discuss them in an unplanned way will enlighten you, then this is the episode for you.This episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive (there's a C-word each, and also an N-word each, with context, which shouldn't need to be said , but there we are).

Carey's back from Australia, the land of not-good-enough-internet-to-remotely-record-a-podcast. No planned topic for this episode; it’s just a catch-up. We talk about audiences, Australia, America (Nick's been to America), and whether you'd rather be laughed at by men or women.

It's another guest episode! This time, Nick and Carey are joined by comedian, writer and ex-housemate, Matt Kirshen, and 'industry insider' Holly Gabrielson, who are on a trip over from L.A. We kick off by talking about the etiquette of '@-including' artists when you criticise their work on social media (don't), and the painful whining that met Greg Jenner when he gently pointed this out on Twitter last week. We also talk about learning history in different countries, and trying to write topical comedy in America in the Trump era.This week's theme song is written and performed by Matt Kirshen. All rights reserved.If you want to peruse, Greg Jenner’s original tweet and its replies can be found here: https://twitter.com/greg_jenner/status/1079353068993560577 But if you don’t like it, don’t bother telling him.

The UK's Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) has announced new guidelines for advertising content. From next year, 'harmful gender stereotypes' will be banned. Nick and Carey talk about this, and about the 'research' behind it. 'Research' is in quote marks there because the ASA's 'public consultation' isn't, as the ASA claims, academic literature that evidentially demonstrates 'harm', but more like a marketing survey that asks people what they think. Nick gets pretty exasperated with this.We’re not sure if you can swear in these descriptions, but both Nick and Carey drop the C-bomb during this episode. I hate the phrase ‘drop the C-bomb’, but if the actual word is so offensive that you need warning about it, I suppose I probably shouldn’t reproduce it here.If you want to go down the rabbit-hole yourself, here's the starting point, with the other docs linked at the bottom: https://www.asa.org.uk/news/new-rule-to-ban-harmful-gender-stereotypes-next-year.html

It's Christmas! Well, nearly. Nick and Carey decide to find a quiet spot in Central London to record an episode. This turns out to be impossible, so they end up standing in the cold in the gardens of the Royal College of Physicians, where they talk about awful Christmas gigs and what it's like to lose your religion (if you're Nick).

Apologies for the hiatus! Usually we'd put something like, 'Nick and Carey manage to get hold of Dave Gorman and grab an interview, etc.' but it would be more accurate to say, 'Carey manages to grab Nick and Dave' as Nick's been supporting Dave on tour for the past 3 months. It's not a long episode, recorded as it is in the dressing rooms, pre-show at the Royal Festival Hall, but Dave is, as ever, interesting, analytical and funny. Among other things, we discuss how Dave developed the genre that leads to other shows being described as 'Gormanesque', moving from the club circuit to doing your own thing, and Dave's favourite complaint from the previous tour.

From Reefer Madness to Satanic Abuse, Nick and Carey discuss the nature of moral panics - that social phenomenon where public alarm spreads like viral wildfire. It's threatening the very fabric of society, don't you hear me? We also discuss the tribal factions forming around the current Brett Kavanaugh investigation. Listeners are warned: there's a lot of dead kids discussed in this episode.

The two men named as suspects in the Salisbury poisoning, Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov, recently gave an interview to Russia Today that was as baffling as it was comical. Join Nick and Carey post-gig in a Cardiff hotel room as they talk about the interview, the case, Russia's current strategy in the world, the conspiracy mindset, and people who are wrongly convinced they know how a magic trick is done.

Comedian Louis CK drops in to join - NOT REALLY. But he gets discussed: is his reported 'comeback' appropriate? Too soon? An example of the 'white male club'?Nick and Carey also look back at this year's Edinburgh Festival, chat about being invited as a guest on 'Newsnight', and discuss the so-called 'White Male Effect', which appears to show that white men perceive environmental risk as lower than any other group (it does show this, but also - SHOCK - it's a bit more complicated than that).The shows we saw in Edinburgh that get a mention in the podcast - in case they're touring and you want to catch them - include Garrett Millerick, Laura Lexx, Daniel Sloss and David Correos.

For this Edinburgh Fringe guest episode, Nick and Carey are joined by the prodigiously talented stand-up, Daniel Sloss, for a fascinating and very funny chat that hits subjects such as writing comedy about the death of a loved one, tackling taboo subjects in stand-up, and when you don't respect the audience enough to give them your best material.

Comedian Simon Evans joins the Citizens of Nowhere for a discussion that's as wide-ranging and interesting as you'd hope from this thoughtful comic. A by-no-means exhaustive selection of topics alighted on: the shortcomings of democracy, finding 'your' audience, Japanese sex pillows, the disappointing lack of brilliance in our public servants, complaining about your boss when you are your own boss, and how to get a Roomba to pleasure you sexually.

The latest of our Edinburgh guests is stand-up Jen Brister, who chats with Nick and Carey about being in a female couple raising a couple of boys, nature vs nurture, growing as a comedian, and when it's ok to do period jokes.

Another guest episode, this time with comedian Zoe Lyons. A bulletproof circuit comic, Zoe has recently moved into touring and doing radio and TV. This wide-ranging chat is less about socio-political issues and more just about being a stand-up comic, both generally and at the Edinburgh Festival. We talk about different types of audience, dealing with that one face in the crowd that clearly hates you, moving from the weekend club circuit to touring under your own name, whether homophobia in comedy clubs dying out, and why sometimes you have to be a drunk, Glaswegian fly, even if it's just for yourself. It's a fun chat - enjoy.

Ayesha Hazarika is a comedian, political commentator, and former advisor to Gordon Brown, Ed Miliband and Harriet Harman. She joins Nick and Carey to talk about her experiences in politics, the #metoo movement, the mainstream media's obsession with presenting everything as a two-sided confrontation, and Boris Johnson's recent theft of an old bit of Carey's material about burkhas. She is, as we’d hoped, a fantastic guest, but we hope she’s wrong about Boris being the next Prime Minister.

It’s Citizens of Nowhere’s first guest episode!Nick and Carey are joined by comedian Marcus Brigstocke for a candid conversation about self-censorship, what you can and can't say onstage, getting into arguments with people who know too much about you, and other pitfalls that await the comedian who deals with big issues. Marcus’s new show, 'Devil May Care', is currently playing at the Edinburgh Festival, as are Nick and Carey. Links below.https://tickets.edfringe.com/whats-on/marcus-brigstocke-devil-may-carehttps://tickets.edfringe.com/whats-on/carey-carey-quite-contraryhttps://tickets.edfringe.com/whats-on/nick-doody-pg

This is a fun one, cut short because Nick had to go. But before that, we have one of the first real disagreements between Nick and Carey, regarding being called/categorised as 'cis'.

In the last few days, James Gunn (writer/director of 'Guardians of the Galaxy') was fired by Disney because of some tweets he sent years ago. This poses the question: where does your 'employee' identity end and your online identity begin? Do you have the right to have your online life considered separately from your work life, or are you always a representative of your employer? And should anyone ever lose their job over a joke, even one that's in bad taste? How does this compare to Roseanne? And does it matter that this whole affair was effectively orchestrated as a right-wing attack? If this can get someone fired, can you now end the career of anyone in the public eye just by trawling through their Twitter history? Nick and Carey attempt to answer these questions, after a bit of rambling.

This episode came out of the question, 'What do we do now that we think will become unacceptable in the future?' Things have changed a lot in the last couple of hundred years, and not just technologically; human values have also changed. Attitudes that were commonplace just a few generations ago now seem prehistoric. So do we have to forgive the people of the past because 'it was a different time', or are they all just as guilty as if they were born now? And how long will we keep the values we have now? Will they seem outdated and ludicrous to future generations? These are all interesting questions that could do with some expert analysis, but unfortunately you've got Nick and Carey rambling as usual.`

You may recently have heard accusations of 'cultural appropriation'. Examples range from white people wearing dreadlocks or chopsticks in their hair to Elvis's musical 'inspirations' to an 18-year-old being attacked in a social media storm for wearing a Chinese-style dress to her prom. So what is cultural appropriation? Is it a real, well-defined phenomenon? Is it as serious a problem as those who complain about it seem to think? Should we care about it at all?Nick and Carey try their very best to give a shit.Some links:Time covers the Chinese dress storm: http://time.com/5262748/chinese-prom-dress-cultural-appropriation/David Frum on the Chinese dress furore: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/cultural-appropriation/559802/The Bustle on Cultural Appropriation: https://www.bustle.com/p/7-things-you-might-not-realize-are-cultural-appropriation-that-are-60679

Should there be limits on free speech? Do we have too much of it in the UK, or not enough? What does the term even mean, really? We talk about all this, throwing in some experiences we've both had in countries where there definitely isn't free speech.

To commemorate the birth and naming of a new Royal Baby, we discuss whether it would be better for the country if we threw it out a window. Yes, this episode is about the Royal Family. Are they worth it to the country? Does it really matter? What are the alternatives? We talk about the baffling public hysteria over the death of Princess Diana, the weird fact that the public would rather see William become King than Charles, the surprising degree to which the Royals interfere in the running of the country, and how brilliant 'The Crown' is. Also, it is revealed that Nick may have committed treason as a child.

What is antisemitism? What's a Jew? Why would anyone hate them? What are they up to? Do they control the media? Really? Not even the Jewish Chronicle? And is there a real problem with antisemitism on the left? Have either or both of Nick and Carey experienced antisemitism? And if both, why, given that only Carey is Jewish? Listen to find the answers to a couple, if not some, of these poorly-framed questions.

What starts as an informal chat with no planned focus becomes, at one point, a discussion (by two comedians with no maths background) of the difference in chances for a group seen as a whole, and the chances for any individual member of that group. Along the way we talk about comedian Sofie Hagen's recent mini-twitterstorm about an ad by Cancer Research UK, and an incredibly abstract example involving a lottery where black people are given more tickets than white people. This lottery does not exist, as far as we're aware.WARNING: CONTAINS OFF-THE-CUFF MATHS.This is in no way influenced by the fact that neither of us is ever on Mock The Week.Sofie's original tweet here: https://twitter.com/SofieHagen/status/968841936906981376Definition of a bell-curve here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution - not to be confused with the book 'The Bell Curve', which we haven't touched yet, but may at some point.

This episode may sound like the sequel to 'Guns, Germs and Steel', but in fact Nick and Carey talk about Steven Pinker's new book, 'Enlightenment Now', which continues from his previous book, 'The Better Angels of our Nature' in that it claims that things are, broadly, improving for humanity. Is this true? And if it is, why does claiming it make some people so angry? Carey explains the Mean World Syndrome, then they get sidetracked onto school shootings, gun control and, inevitably, Trump.

In this episode, Nick and Carey talk about a couple of related items: the decision by the Manchester Art Gallery to remove the painting 'Hylas and the Nymphs' by John William Waterhouse, in order to 'provoke debate', and Formula One's announcement that they will no longer use 'grid girls' (they're to be replaced with 'grid kids' We talk about objectification, changing attitudes and the implications for porn if all titillating female roles are now going to be taken by children. We also take in the fallout (so far) of the #metoo movement - is it proportional, and is it too early to say if real change has happened?Links to the stories: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/manchester-art-gallery-removes-waterhouse-nude-naked-nymphs-painting-hylas-girls-times-up-metoo-a8190606.htmlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/42950040 

Nick and Carey discuss the recent interview on Channel 4 News between journalist Cathy Newman and psychologist Jordan Peterson. They are significantly less drunk than the previous episode, but it's still Sunday.You can see the interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54

Every so often there's bound to be one like this: a hurriedly-recorded episode where one or both of us is drink. That's what this is. We talk about a few studies that we've half-read, and a bit about religion.

Nick and Carey discuss 'offensive' language. Merry C*****mas! ('trigger warning' warning)

Are you easily disgusted? If you are, then you're probably more socially conservative, according to several experiments discussed in this talk by psychologist David Pizarro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YL3LT1ZvOM In this episode, Nick & Carey talk about what - if anything - disgusts them, and wonder whether disgust could be used to change people's minds.Oh, and they're both sick, so enjoy this recording of two men talking about disgust while bodily fluids stream from their faces.

There's strong language in this one. Plus we both really recommend the book: 'The Righteoud Mind' by Jonathan Haidt.

CITIZENS OF NOWHERE - a podcast in which comedians Nick Doody and Carey Marx discuss issues in the world, and their failures to slot into the most convenient categories regarding our opinions on them. CLICK HERE for RSS feed.