CAM Matters with Betsy Barbieux

Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn kick off a new season of CAM Matters by introducing the newest member of the Florida CAM Schools family, Chelsea Lowder. Chelsea works alongside Betsy in the Leesburg office and, among other things, is growing our network of community managers, board members and service providers. If you haven't already, join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/401330244541617 FLORIDA CAM SCHOOLS – BETSY BARBIEUX, CAM, CFCAM, CMCA – CAM MATTERS Florida CAM Schools, LLC Condos, Coops, HOAs and Beyond! Florida CAM Schools, provides education and professional development to condo, coop, and HOA management professionals. We offer training for condo, coop, and HOA managers, board members, service providers by providing continuing education courses, CAM prelicensing classes, staff development workshops, follow up support, on-line resources, course materials, assessment tools, and coaching services.   For more information on Florida communities, HOA community associations and management visit: https://floridacamschools.com/home/ CAM Matters on Social Media: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/401330244541617 Florida CAM Schools on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Florida-CAM-Schools-LLC-104066087604324/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/betsybarbieux/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/betsybarbieux Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betsybarbieux/

Getting along with your neighbors is one of the most important – and sometimes challenging – aspects of living in a community. Even board members are sometimes at odds with one another. In this entertaining episode, Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn discuss how knowing your personality type – and the types of those around you – can help you navigate your way through the conflicts that inevitably arise.

Connie Lorenz from Asphalt Restoration Technology Systems, Inc. in Orlando, Florida – also known as “The Asphalt Chick” – joins Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn to talk in layman’s terms about an important but rarely mentioned responsibility for community managers and their boards – maintaining the roads, parking lots and other paved areas. They discuss the different methods and costs associated with these projects.

It’s a special FAQ episode with Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn. Maria wants Betsy to explain which records homeowners are entitled to see. Another viewer asks about credentials such as CAM, CCAM, CMCA, etc. Finally, the owner of a condo in the Florida Panhandle has a question about meeting minutes.

Phillip Massi from Assured Partners joins Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn to discuss insurance, and the specific coverage needs of community associations.

Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn talk about your community's Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document and why you should read and understand it before purchasing your home.

In this episode, Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn are joined by Lauren Broom from Space Coast Pool School, who talks about guidelines and gives tips for the proper operation of a community swimming pool.

So, you’ve been elected to your community association’s board of directors – or “voluntold” that you’re on it. What now? You’ll need to prove that you’re certified, and you have a couple of options. One is signing the “perjury statement,” saying you understand all the rules and responsibilities of being on the board. The other is taking a class to learn what you need to know. In this episode, Betsy Barbieux talks about the difference between the options.

In this episode, Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn discuss how knowing your association's rules without fully understanding them can be worse than not knowing them at all.

Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn start 2020 and the second season of CAM Matters with a discussion about the rights homeowners have when living in an HOA.

Over the last 12 episodes, we’ve learned what a community association is, the differences between a co-op, condo association and HOA, why association meetings matter, how rules can be enforced, and many other important topics. In this season finale episode, Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne look back at what was covered and what it all means. FLORIDA CAM SCHOOLS – BETSY BARBIEUX, CAM, CFCAM, CMCA – CAM MATTERS   Florida CAM Schools, LLC Condos, Coops, HOAs and Beyond!   Florida CAM Schools, provides education and professional development to condo, coop, and HOA management professionals.   We offer training for condo, coop, and HOA managers, board members, service providers by providing continuing education courses, CAM prelicensing classes, staff development workshops, follow up support, on-line resources, course materials, assessment tools, and coaching services.   For more information on Florida communities, HOA community associations and management visit: https://floridacamschools.com/home/   CAM Matters on Social Media: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Florida-CAM-... LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/betsybarb...  Twitter: https://twitter.com/betsybarbieux   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betsybarbieux/

Betsy Barbieux gets a lot of questions from homeowners, board members and community managers. In this episode, she answers a few of the most frequent queries including what constitutes a quorum, how important it is for board meetings to be run under Robert’s Rules of Order, and the responsibility of the board and/or community manager when it comes to dealing with difficult neighbors. FLORIDA CAM SCHOOLS – BETSY BARBIEUX, CAM, CFCAM, CMCA – CAM MATTERS Florida CAM Schools, LLC Condos, Coops, HOAs and Beyond! Florida CAM Schools, provides education and professional development to condo, coop, and HOA management professionals. We offer training for condo, coop, and HOA managers, board members, service providers by providing continuing education courses, CAM prelicensing classes, staff development workshops, follow up support, on-line resources, course materials, assessment tools, and coaching services. For more information on Florida communities, HOA community associations and management visit: https://floridacamschools.com/home/ CAM Matters on Social Media: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Florida-CAM-Schools-LLC-104066087604324/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/betsybarbieux/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/betsybarbieux Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betsybarbieux/

Wondering if you have the right kind or personality to be a community manager or to serve on your association’s board of directors? Of course you do! In this episode, Betsy Barbieux explains how it takes all kinds of people to make a community work, as long as everyone plays to his or her strengths. FLORIDA CAM SCHOOLS – BETSY BARBIEUX, CAM, CFCAM, CMCA – CAM MATTERS Florida CAM Schools, LLC Condos, Coops, HOAs and Beyond! Florida CAM Schools, provides education and professional development to condo, coop, and HOA management professionals. We offer training for condo, coop, and HOA managers, board members, service providers by providing continuing education courses, CAM prelicensing classes, staff development workshops, follow up support, on-line resources, course materials, assessment tools, and coaching services. For more information on Florida communities, HOA community associations and management visit: https://floridacamschools.com/home/ CAM Matters on Social Media: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Florida-CAM-Schools-LLC-104066087604324/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/betsybarbieux/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/betsybarbieux Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betsybarbieux/      

While some community association boards choose to handle the management responsibilities themselves, an increasing number are hiring licensed community managers to help keep the financial books balanced, handle compliance issues, make sure meetings are run properly, maintain common areas, and perform other important services. In this episode, Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn discuss the benefits of hiring a professional. FLORIDA CAM SCHOOLS – BETSY BARBIEUX, CAM, CFCAM, CMCA – CAM MATTERS Florida CAM Schools, LLC Condos, Coops, HOAs and Beyond! Florida CAM Schools, provides education and professional development to condo, coop, and HOA management professionals. We offer training for condo, coop, and HOA managers, board members, service providers by providing continuing education courses, CAM prelicensing classes, staff development workshops, follow up support, on-line resources, course materials, assessment tools, and coaching services. For more information on Florida communities, HOA community associations and management visit: https://floridacamschools.com/home/ CAM Matters on Social Media: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Florida-CAM-Schools-LLC-104066087604324/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/betsybarbieux/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/betsybarbieux Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betsybarbieux/  

When you add up the value of all the property in your community association, your board is responsible for managing the equivalent of a multi-million dollar corporation. In this episode, Betsy Barbieux and Suzanne Lynn talk about charging, collecting, spending, and saving the association's money. FLORIDA CAM SCHOOLS – BETSY BARBIEUX, CAM, CFCAM, CMCA – CAM MATTERS Florida CAM Schools, LLC Condos, Coops, HOAs and Beyond! Florida CAM Schools, provides education and professional development to condo, coop, and HOA management professionals. We offer training for condo, coop, and HOA managers, board members, service providers by providing continuing education courses, CAM prelicensing classes, staff development workshops, follow up support, on-line resources, course materials, assessment tools, and coaching services. For more information on Florida communities, HOA community associations and management visit: https://floridacamschools.com/home/ CAM Matters on Social Media: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Florida-CAM-Schools-LLC-104066087604324/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/betsybarbieux/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/betsybarbieux Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betsybarbieux/

Betsy Barbieux recently attended a Community Association Managers event where one of the speakers said there aren’t any co-ops in Florida. Actually, there are nearly 8,000 housing cooperatives – mostly mobile home parks -- in the state, and while there are some similarities with condominium and homeowner associations, there are also some very distinct differences. In this episode, Betsy and Suzanne Lynn explain what a co-op is and discuss the benefits and drawbacks of living in one.   FLORIDA CAM SCHOOLS – BETSY BARBIEUX, CAM, CFCAM, CMCA – CAM MATTERS Florida CAM Schools, LLC Condos, Coops, HOAs and Beyond! Florida CAM Schools, provides education and professional development to condo, coop, and HOA management professionals. We offer training for condo, coop, and HOA managers, board members, service providers by providing continuing education courses, CAM prelicensing classes, staff development workshops, follow up support, on-line resources, course materials, assessment tools, and coaching services.   For more information on Florida communities, HOA community associations and management visit: https://floridacamschools.com/home/   CAM Matters on Social Media: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Florida-CAM-... LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/betsybarb... Twitter: https://twitter.com/betsybarbieux Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betsybarbieux/

With Hurricane Dorian threatening Florida’s Atlantic Coast, Betsy Barbieux goes over the responsibilities of community associations in preparing for and dealing with the aftermath of hurricanes and other emergencies.

Community associations are permitted to prohibit or regulate pets, but the lines have been blurred in recent years as some residents use the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) and Fair Housing Act to circumvent the rules. In this episode, Betsy explains how these laws relate to service and emotional support animals.

The media often take the side of homeowners who say they’re prohibited by their community association from flying flags and displaying other patriotic and religious symbols on their homes or in their yards. In this episode, Betsy provides the facts and explains how state statutes supersede community rules. Betsy - Hi, I'm Betsy. And this is CAM Matters. Welcome to our show today on enforcement and more. We started in a previous show with some general things about enforcement, the who and the why. But today, we're gonna talk a little bit more about specifics. Come join us. Welcome to CAM Matters, condos, co-ops, HOAs and beyond. Betsy Barbieux is an information leader in Florida on community association living, rights and obligations. She is an expert on the rights and obligations of owners as well as the association. If you live or are planning to live in the state of Florida, there's a good chance you'll be part of a community association. And by the end of the show, you'll know a little bit more about community associations and why they matter. Suzanne - Hi, I'm Suzanne Linn, and this is Betsy Barbieux. We are talking about CAM Matters and today, specifically about enforcement. Now we talked about the who, the why and the what. But we didn't get into the juicy details. Betsy - Oh-- Suzanne - And we're gonna-- Betsy - I know what you're gonna do. Suzanne - Let's do kind of devil's advocate here because I'm gonna take the side of the homeowners. And then, you're gonna give the other side which most people never hear. No one has ever heard the other side-- Betsy - No. Suzanne - on news. Betsy - No, definitely not. Betsy - They always hear your side. Suzanne - Which is-- Betsy - But they don't ever hear my side. Suzanne - For example, I move into a community. And these mean boards, they don't let prisoners of war fly the POW flag. Betsy - Yeah, but nobody tells-- Suzanne - So again, we're getting into these-- Betsy - the other side of the story. Suzanne - What's the other side? Betsy - Let's tell the other side of the story. And I'm gonna try to say this and not cry, but I'm gonna cry. Suzanne - Okay, oh. Betsy - But I am a mother of a United States Marine. Suzanne - Oh. Betsy - And-- Betsy - So this is personal. Betsy - Thank you, Adam Howard, First Sergeant Adam Howard for service. But I'm sayin' that to say, I am for the military. And I am for the flag. But, but you signed a contract that said you could put things outside your home or outside your front door or that you could not. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - It's a contract. It's not personal. A lot of documents say that you cannot hang any flags, whether it's in a condo or in a co-op or an HOA. But the statutes supersede your documents. So in Florida, and I don't know about all those other states, but in Florida-- Suzanne - There are other states besides Florida? Betsy - In other states besides Florida, I don't know about them, but Florida allows exemptions from enforcement. Betsy - Okay, what does that mean in lawyer terms? Betsy - See if your mind will wrap around that. Suzanne - It didn't. Betsy - In other words, your documents might say you're supposed to enforce something like you can't have any yard art. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - But the statutes supersede and say, certain kinds of things are exempt from enforcement, even though your documents say the board has to do it. Suzanne - Is that the case with flags? Betsy - That is the case with flags, and that's where I'm goin'. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - In a condominium, you can fly an American flag and on five days of the year, the military holidays of the year, you can fly a second flag, representing the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps and Coast Guard. It has to be a portable, removable flag. So you can't bolt it, in a condominium, to the outside of the building. Because in a condominium, owners don't own the outside of the building. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - And the thought there is, you can't bolt something to the outside of something that does not belong to you. But they can have a stand or something that's removable and portable for the flag. One flag, United States flag, and five days of the year, one of the armed forces flags. Suzanne - So no Confederate-- Betsy - No Confederate. Suzanne - No football flags-- Betsy - No football flags, none of those, nothin' else you can fly. In a homeowner's association, you can fly two flags from your home all the time. You can fly the American flag and the Florida flag or the American flag and Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard. And they added, in HOA, POW/MIA. Suzanne - Oh, okay. Betsy - So I don't why they didn't add it in condo law. Suzanne - Interesting. Betsy - But in HOA law, you can fly the POW/MIA flag. Also in a homeowner's association, because a homeowner owns the dirt that they live on, you can erect a free-standing flagpole, not more than 20 feet high, so long as it doesn't block any sight lines or intersections or anything like that. And the statute goes on to say, you can fly two flags from that flagpole. Suzanne - No kidding. Betsy - Yep. Betsy - And again, you can fly the United States flag and the Florida flag or Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, POW/MIA flag. Suzanne - Okay, so this is kind of a pole that we're talkin' about. Betsy - A pole, a 20 foot pole. Suzanne - So let me ask you this. You know how when you go to a store, and you've got the flags. They're the holiday flags. Betsy - Mm-hmm. Suzanne - I mean, does that come under the umbrella of a flag, or is that more art? Suzanne - That you would like, stick in a-- Suzanne - No, like it would go in your flagpole. It could be a football team, or it could be maybe a Florida-- Betsy - Oh no, no, no, no college, no. The only flags that can be flown from the flagpole-- Suzanne - Okay great, that's a flagpole, opposed to, okay, opposed to almost art on your house. Betsy - No, no other flags. Suzanne - Huh. Betsy - No other flags, period. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - It's either the United, whether it's a condominium or a co-op, condominium or a HOA, it's the United States flag, Florida flag, military flag. Suzanne - I gotta go. I gotta go take our flag down 'cause I didn't know this. Betsy - No, we can't have like a flamingo or something out there. Suzanne - No kidding, okay. Betsy - No decorative flags, no college flags, no other special group kinds of flags. Suzanne - Wow. Betsy - Only American flag and Florida flag or the military ones. Suzanne - Okay, this is really good to know. Betsy - And that is not-- Suzanne - Wow. Betsy - the board disrespecting veterans. It's not the board disrespecting those who've served our country. They're simply enforcing the regulations of the statutes and the documents. Suzanne - So you see a lot of other flags, like Florida State University. Betsy - Mm-hmm. Suzanne - You know, you see a lot of them. I just thought that was okay. Betsy - No, no. Suzanne - Wow, okay, all right. Betsy - And the statute for condominiums goes on to allow the attachment of a religious symbol. And the original request was from our Jewish friends in South Florida. Betsy - This is interesting 'cause you've told me about this before. Let's come back. We're gonna talk about the religious symbols right after this. Are you ready for a new career? Do you have skills or interests in management, real estate, construction, maintenance, accounting, strategic planning, project management, budgets, human resource management, lawn and landscaping, pool services or any other expertise needed to operate a community association? If you do, Community Association Management could be for you. For more information, feel free to email Betsy at betsy@floridacamschools.com or visit the Florida CAM Schools website at www.floridacamschools.com. Florida Community Association Management continues to grow. Career opportunities abound. Suzanne - Hi, welcome back to CAM Matters. I'm Suzanne with Betsy. And I'm still reeling from the whole flag thing. Suzanne - I mean-- Suzanne - She's gonna get a violation. Suzanne - My gosh, I know; I know. Like football teams? That's seriously not okay? Betsy - Mm-mm. Suzanne - Okay. So we're moving from flag violations and rules into religious symbols because how many times do you see a statue of Mary? What is the problem with that, and how did it start? Betsy - Okay again, and I'm having to talk kind of out of two sides of my mouth, condo and homeowner's association. Suzanne - Sure, right, right. Betsy - We don't have any specific law for the flags and religious symbols for cooperatives. So I'm talking condos and HOAs. In condominiums, I think we sort of tagged on, started on that just a minute ago. But in condominiums, you don't own the outside. So the outside of the front door is not yours, but the inside of the front door is yours. And there are exceptions to everything I say. Suzanne - So your living space. Betsy - Your living space is yours. The Jewish tradition is to attach a mezuzah, I should have brought one, to the door frame. Some of 'em are this big. Some of 'em are huge. But it fits on the molding on the outside of your door. It has a piece of scripture rolled up inside. And it acts as a blessing to the family and a reminder of their heritage as they come and go. Betsy - And they touch it. Suzanne - And they get a blessing, right? Betsy - And so, they come and go. So that was the request for the legislation. And the legislators wisely didn't limit it to the mezuzah, but said that anything that is three by six by one and a half inches, any religious object can be attached to the mantle or the frame of your door. Suzanne - It can be. Betsy - It can be. In a homeowner's association, you do own the outside of your house with restrictions on certain things like flags-- Suzanne - Right. Betsy - that can be flown from it. Yeah, you're gonna get in so much trouble. Suzanne - We are. I can see a letter comin' already. Betsy - The other thing that a lot of homeowner association documents say is that you cannot have any yard art. Suzanne - Okay, 'cause art is very subjective. Betsy - Yeah, well anything then, in the yard. So no fountains, no signs, no this house protected by an attack cat. Suzanne - Right, they're so cute though. Betsy - You know, kind of those kinds of things. And fountains or the gazing ball or the Mother Mary, those kinds of things cannot be in your yard. Suzanne - The gazing ball, seriously? Betsy - Seriously, those ball things. Suzanne - Wow. Betsy - They cannot be in your yard. Those are considered yard art. The only thing that the homeowner association law exempts, that says you can have, is a ramp that an owner who has a medical necessity can construct a ramp so long as it's aesthetically pleasing, as small as it can be to meet the needs. The person with a disability has to complete an application and approval by the board and submit a physician's affidavit to be able to construct the ramp. And the other thing that they are allowed to have is like the ADT sign outside the front door. Suzanne - You are allowed. Betsy - You are allowed to have that. That is a sign, but that is exempt from enforcement. So you may have the sign so long as it's not more than 10 feet away from your door. Suzanne - Interesting. Betsy - And again, this points back to uniformity, consistency, everything looking clean and pristine and nice and not having all sorts of mismatched flags and all these things in the yard. You may not be able to have your trash can kept outside your garage if you have a front-facing garage. You may have to keep your garage door closed when you're home, just things that keep the neighborhood looking nice. Suzanne - So I'm gonna throw some things out to ya. How about like, a swing, like the double swing or you know? Betsy - In a homeowner's association, you would have to check with your documents to see about that. You may be allowed to have that out of sight maybe in the back. Suzanne - Oh, okay. Betsy - But it might not be allowed in the front. Suzanne - A birdbath, a bird feeder? Betsy - I'm gonna say no on that. Suzanne - Wow. Betsy - Maybe in the back that can't be seen. Suzanne - Huh. Betsy - There would be things that we don't wanna see it from the street. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - We want the lawns to look nice and smooth and nice, clean. Suzanne - So I mean, it's really not personal, and I love-- Betsy - It's not personal. Suzanne - I love the way that we started off the segment with the flags because that is, I mean, truly something so personal to you. Betsy - And I cry-- Suzanne - And yet, you understand-- Betsy - when I think about it. Betsy - so I know. But yet, you understand. This is what matters. Betsy - That's what matters. God bless those who serve our country. But don't move here. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - You know, if this just doesn't suit you, then there are plenty of other places that you can live in Florida. Suzanne - Sure. Betsy, this has been kind of a touchy topic. So if someone wants to reach out to you, if they've got questions, maybe they're interested in getting into management, how would they get a hold of you? Betsy - Betsy@floridacamschools.com is an easy way to get me. And you probably can just google my name-- Suzanne - Yes. Betsy - if you can spell it. Suzanne - Right, go ahead and spell it. We've got it on the-- - Betsy B-A-R-B-I-E-U-X, and I think if you just google my name, I'll probably pop right up. I'm on LinkedIn; I'm on Facebook. So there are ways to get me. Suzanne - And absolutely, don't forget to subscribe, and send in a question if you'd like to. Betsy - Oh please do. Suzanne - Maybe you'll inspire a topic for a show. Betsy - Thank you. Announcer - Yeah, thanks for joining us today. Thank you for listening to CAM Matters. Be sure to subscribe, so you don't miss any future episodes. For more information, feel free to email Betsy at betsy@floridacamschools.com or visit the Florida CAM Schools website at www.floridacamschools.com. Information provided on this show is general in nature and does not constitute legal advice. Please contact a licensed attorney for your specific situation.

The purpose of restrictions in a community association is to maintain the lifestyle and the look of the community. That's one of the reasons homes in associations are valued at 5 to 6 percent more than those in non-association neighborhoods. Betsy Barbieux explains how enforcement is an important responsibility and a necessary evil. TRANSCRIPT   Betsy - Hi, I'm Betsy, and welcome to CAM Matters. Today, we're going to be talking about enforcement and why that matters. [Announcer] Welcome to CAM Matters. Condos, co-ops, HOAs, and beyond. Betsy Barbieux is an informational leader in Florida on community association living, rights, and obligations. She is an expert on the rights and obligations of owners, as well as the association. If you live or are planning to live in the state of Florida, there's a good chance you'll be part of a community association. And by the end of this show, you'll know a little bit more about community associations and why they matter. Suzanne - Hi, welcome to CAM Matters. I'm Suzanne Lynn and this is Betsy Barbieux. And we are talking about enforcement today. And I don't know, I think when you start thinking about boards and community living, it kind of gets a bad rap. I want to talk about first of all, why we've got to have these rules and why there is enforcement. Betsy - It does get a bad rap and I'm glad that I have a chance to defend it. Suzanne - Right? Betsy - And to tell the other side. You hear of so many mean boards, Suzanne - Right. Betsy - and they're mean to these old people. Suzanne - Well, the neighbors are talking to other neighbors. Yes, absolutely. Betsy - And I tell you, no one ever presents the other side. So I'm gonna present the other side today. Enforcement, the why of it is, and I'm gonna tag back to something that we said earlier, in an earlier show. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - The why is because of these. We are in, we as in owners and the board the association, the corporation, are in a contractual relationship. The parties to the contract have to fulfill the mandates in the contract. Betsy - That's a lot, can I just pick this up? Suzanne - Yeah. Suzanne - Yeah, so is this the typical? Betsy - Oh, that's small. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - Just put it back down. Suzanne - Yeah, I didn't want to get a hernia. Betsy - But we are in a contractual relationship. When you moved into your community, I'll just go back and refresh just a little bit. Suzanne - Yes. Betsy - But when you moved into your community, you traded off some of your rights to do what you want with your property, in exchange for something else. If you moved from Texas, and had a farm in Texas, and you move here, yes, you will have to clean up after your dog. And you probably did not in Texas. Suzanne - Probably not. Betsy - On the farm. Suzanne - The cattle, no. Betsy - Yeah. No in fact you use that for other stuff. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - But this is a contractual relationship. When you moved in, you were given the opportunity to read these, whether you know it or not, you were. These were public, we talked about them being public. It's possible that here, you don't really recognize that you have a trade-off. You might have promised in your contract to not paint your house, or not re-roof, or put a fence in or pool in without getting permission from the Homeowner's Association. You might have moved into your condo and became contractually obligated to not hang a roof on your door, or put a flowerpot outside of your front door. Suzanne - But you just signed. "I want this place." Betsy - "I want this place." Betsy - Right. Betsy - The reason for the restrictions is to maintain the lifestyle and the look of the community. I think I mentioned earlier that homes in community associations are five to six percent higher in value than homes that are not. Have you ever driven through a neighborhood that does not have a Homeowner's Association? Suzanne - You mean with the cars jacked up on cement blocks? Betsy - Yes. Suzanne - Where they're changing the oil? Betsy - Yes. Suzanne - Yeah, I've seen them. Betsy - And the old dishwasher and old refrigerator out in the yard? Suzanne - And the fact is you were probably attracted to your community because it had a certain look to it. Betsy - They're uniform, harmonious, Suzanne - Right. They have a nice scheme and design to them. And that probably attracted you. So we don't want you to be the neighbor that puts your car up on the blocks. Betsy - Right. Suzanne - To change the oil. Betsy - Right. Betsy - So that is why we have a contractual obligation. The board has to enforce these. And the owners, by moving in, have agreed to comply, voluntarily comply. Suzanne - 'Cause it takes enforcement to keep a certain standard. Betsy - And quite frankly there are a few people who should not live in these kinds of communities because they can't stand a line drawn in the sand, and you just have to stomp on it. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - There's some people who just shouldn't be here. Suzanne - Sure. Betsy - You need to go back to the farm. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - And that's okay. Suzanne - And you want more flexibility and just. Betsy - And that's okay. But for a lot of people, 9,600,000 in Florida, this is the way they like to live. So that's the why. The board is not picking on you, or shouldn't be. We can talk about equitable. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - But the board is doing what it has to do. It has no choice. If it says that you have to build your home with a setback of 50 fee or a setback of 80 fee, then you can't build your home any other way but that. Betsy - Well it's important, I mean you wanna keep things as they are, and the important part is being aware when you're moving into a community that that's existing. Suzanne - You know, we're hoping with this series of CAM Matters that this will help people.   Betsy - Right. Sure. Suzanne - So that they'll know some things before they move in. Betsy - So when we first started this show, you talked about you wanna give the other side, because it's very true. One neighbor talks to another, they only hear this, "They want to make him get rid "of their dog that's 13 years old." Well, there's more to the story, if it comes down to the board, it's probably because they've exceeded the amount of pets, and they've now made that story so refined to make it look like they're the victim. Suzanne - Yeah, so and pets are another matter. Betsy - Right, we'll do a show on that. Suzanne - We'll do a show on pets. But when the board is asking you to comply, it's because they have been required to by the documents. Yes, there are occasionally bully boards, but for the most part they're not. Betsy - Right. Suzanne - They're just doing what they're supposed to do from the contract. Suzanne - Right, well I'll tell you what, when we come back we are gonna talk about the who part of enforcement. And this is where things can get a little bit crazy, so you don't wanna miss it. Announcer -  Are you ready for a new career? Do you have skills or interest in management, real estate, construction, maintenance, accounting, strategic planning, project management, budgets, human resource management, lawn and landscaping, pool services, or any other expertise needed to operate a community association? If you do, Community Association Management could be for you. For more information, fell free to e-mail Betsy at Betsy@FloridaCAMSchools.com, or visit the Florida CAM Schools website at www.FloridaCAMSchools.com. Florida Community Association Management continues to grow. Career opportunities abound. Suzanne - Welcome back to CAM Matters with Suzanne and Betsy, and today we're talking about enforcement. And we covered the why, now we're getting to the who. And this is where it gets a little more personal because sometimes it feels like it's personal, like they're beating you up a little bit. Like they're targeting you. Betsy - And they're probably not. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - Now again, there are some boards that are out of line, but for the most part, most are not. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - They are enforcing the restrictions in the documents because they have to. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - Again, we're going back to this as a business. And if you want to know how big of a business it is, let's do a little bit of arithmetic. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - If you take the value of a home or a unit, multiply that times the number of homes or units in your community, and right there. Suzanne - That's a lot. Betsy - That's a lot right there. Suzanne - That's a big number, right? Betsy - And you can even take a 10 year ago depressed value. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - Of a home or a unit. Multiply that times the number of units. Add to that your budget amount, which could have a lot of zeros after that. Add to that the reserve account amount. Reserves are the strategic savings. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - For the big ticket items that we're going to replace in years to come like roof, paving painting, elevator, pool, servicing. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - Those kinds of things that we're gonna replace in five, 10, 15, 20, 30 years. You add to that, which in some communities reserves are millions of dollars. Suzanne - Oh, wow, okay. Betsy - And then you add to that the value of the common property, the things at the pool, the clubhouse the roads are on. You add that, and we have something with a dozen or more zeros after it. Suzanne - Wow. Betsy - This is a multi-million dollar corporation. You as owners think of it as your home, but the board has to put on their business hat and see it as a business. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - And they are fulfilling their contractual obligations to enforce whatever it says in here. And as much as it might feel personal when you get that violation letter, it's not, it's business. The board has to be equitable in its enforcement, so they can't let one owner slide. Suzanne - Sure, Betsy - And then hammer on another owner. Suzanne - Right. They've gotta be consistent. Betsy - They have to be consistent. Suzanne -  Right. Betsy - They have to be equitable. And the documents will require the board to do that. So they will be fulfilling what is here, plus boards need a written policy for how many letters do they send to an owner to get compliance. Betsy - Sure. And then when they have reached the point that the owner's not gonna comply. Do you turn it over to the attorney, which is gonna cost money, or do you send internal procedures that the statutes allow? Which would be to find them, or to suspend the use rights. Betsy - They can't use the pool. Suzanne - Can't use the pool. Suzanne - Or something like that. Betsy - Right. Or to in some cases that depending on which type of violation it is to suspend their voting rights. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - So those would be internal procedures, but they need written policies for how and when they implement that, so that they don't appear to be arbitrary. Suzanne - Right, don't most boards already have those established though? Betsy - Oh, Suzanne, no they do not. Suzanne - They don't? Betsy - They don't. Suzanne - Oh. Betsy - They don't. Suzanne - It's easier once you move in and it's already established. This is the way it is, but when you're making the, ugh. Betsy - And that is something that I try to help on the management side with the managers. I try to give managers opportunities, in their Continuing Ed classes, to draft some of these policies and procedures. Suzanne - Sure. Betsy - And get them started. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - And then give them to board and say, "Here, I got it started for you. "We need these." Suzanne - Right. Betsy - Now a lot of management companies have policies and procedures written, and a lot of the much larger communities have policies and procedures that are written. But when you have a part-time manager or you have a manager and a half part-time maintenance person, chances in having all of that structure in time to write the policies and procedures are slim. Suzanne - Well, and it's probably not just having the procedures, it's that enforcing the procedures. Who's gonna put the notes on the door and send out the letters and stuff. Betsy - Right. And if you don't have management at all, if the board is all volunteer and doing everything themselves, then each board member has to be the point person for something, and that means probably one board member is gonna be the point person for enforcement. Suzanne - Sure, I feel like we could go a whole lot longer than we normally do with this show, but I do want to talk about before we wrap up. The rights of sitting in a meeting, of a board meeting, and what you feel like needs to be enforced, and shouting out things like, there's procedures, right? Betsy - Oh, you've heard of those meetings. Suzanne - I've heard of them. Betsy - Oh, you've heard of those meetings. Suzanne - What's proper? What should people know as they're going into a board meeting? Betsy - First, the thing that you should know when you're going to a board meeting as an owner, it's not for you. The board meeting is not for you. Suzanne - They don't work for us? Betsy - No. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - No, we work for the documents. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - The board works for the documents, the manager works for the documents. The board meeting is for the board. The statutes don't allow the board collectively as a whole to discuss business outside of a board meeting. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - So the only time they can talk about reviewing the contracts, violations, compliance, financials, anything to do with maintenance, and those kinds of issues, the contracts, the only time they can talk about that is at a board meeting. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - They're not supposed to talk with each other outside of a meeting. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - They then need to sit so that they see each other. You cannot do business, and they're doing business, with people whose eyeballs you cannot see. Suzanne - Right, so if they're sitting as if they're on stage. Betsy - They should not be sitting on stage. Betsy - They should not sitting in a panel style because in all fairness, that makes the meeting look like it's for the owners. Suzanne - Sure. Betsy - But the board meeting is not an informational meeting for the owner. It is not a Q&A for the owner. The board meeting is for the board. Suzanne - To cover what's on the agenda that night, right? Betsy - And they can only cover what's on the agenda. The law does not allow them to add anything to the agenda. It has to be set 48 hours in advance of what's gonna be on the agenda. So any of those free-willing comments that the board is allowing owners to make. Suzanne - My lawn is brown. That's not appropriate. Betsy - It is not appropriate. It's not contemplated by the statute. If an owner has a concern, I want that concern gathered some way. Suzanne - Right, you want it heard. Betsy - I want it heard, but not at the meeting. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - It doesn't belong at the meeting, that's not what the meeting is for. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - The meeting is for the board to do its business. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - It's not to give information to the owners. It's not to take complaints from the owners. The thing about the complaints and all those pop-up, yelling, screaming things that happen, is that nothing can be done about it at that meeting because whatever that was that the owner just brought up wasn't on the agenda. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - So you can't do anything about it anyway. Suzanne - That is so good to know. Betsy - That makes the owner more angry. Suzanne - I'm sure it does. Betsy - Yeah, absolutely. Suzanne - It makes them more angry. Betsy - Yeah. Because what's the point in me telling you if you can't do anything? Suzanne - Right. Betsy - Well, that's not what the purpose of this meeting is for. Suzanne - Or to knock on the president's door at night. Betsy - There needs to be a procedure. If you have any level of management at all, violation issues, complaints, and maintenance complaints, need to go through management. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - Managers know that part of our job is to be the buffer for the board, so that the board can enjoy walking the dog, or sitting at the pool, or playing golf, without owners constantly telling them about things that won't stop. Suzanne - Right, reminder, it's a volunteer position. Betsy - Volunteer, right. And managers know that this is our job. Bring it to us first, but board members also need to be taught to say, "Have you told Betsy?" Suzanne - Sure, right. Betsy - "Have you told the manager?" Suzanne - Right. Suzanne - Tell her first, and if she can't take of it, she'll bring it to the board. Suzanne - So to wrap up the whole show, would you say that if you have a problem that you want the board to address, you need to take it to management and then it gets put on an agenda, and that's the proper procedure. Suzanne - If management cannot handle it. Betsy - If management can't handle it, can't resolve whatever the issue is, then the manager will bring it to the board. Suzanne - Okay, what are some final thoughts that you have on enforcement, because it's such a touchy subject. Betsy - It's not personal. It is business and it is because we are all contractually obligated to each other. It's a contract. Betsy - It's a big business with a lot of zeros. Suzanne - A lot of zeros, that's right. Suzanne - Thank you Betsy, it was a great one today, thank you. Announcer - Thank you for listening to CAM Matters. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. For more information, feel free to e-mail Betsy at betsy@floridacamschools.com, or visit the Florid CAM Schools website at www.floridacamschools.com. Information provided on this show is general in nature and does not constitute legal advice. Please contact a licensed attorney for your specific situation.  

In this episode of CAM Matters, Betsy Barbieux explains the difference between the annual owners meeting and the more frequent board of directors meetings. She also clears up the misconception that board meetings are the place where owners can file complaints and expect the board to act on them.   TRANSCRIPT   Betsy- Hi, I'm Betsy, with "CAM Matters", and today, we will be talking about meetings. I am sure that you have heard some wild tales about meetings, and I'm gonna help you understand the difference between the owners meeting and the board meeting, and what they're really for, stay tuned. Narrator - Welcome to "CAM Matters", condos, co-ops, HOAs, and beyond. Betsy Barbieux is an information leader in Florida on community association living, rights and obligations. She is an expert on the rights and obligations of owners as well as the association. If you live or are planning to live in the state of Florida, there's a good chance you'll be part of a community association. And by the end of this show, you'll know a little bit more about community associations and why they matter. Suzanne - Hello, I'm Suzanne Lynn with Betsy Barbieux and it's another episode of "CAM Matters". And Betsy today we're talking about, well, some people might say is not that exciting, but when you're talking about community associated living meetings-- Suzanne - Meetings is exciting. Betsy- They can be pretty exciting. Suzanne - Yeah, you know, if-- Suzanne - Where do we dive in to meetings? Betsy- Well, let's start with first that there are two kinds. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy- Okay, let's start there. Suzanne - Not good and bad? Betsy- No, not good kind, bad kind, we'll go there later, we'll go there later, what not to do. But let's talk about our communities are corporations, we've learned that in previous shows that these are corporations, and corporations have groups of people who need to meet. Two other groups that need to meet are the owners, and you can call them members, membership owners. Some of your documents, these papers, will call the owners the voting interests. I don't know why that happens. But I'm probably just gonna switch back and forth between owners and members. So, the owners have their meeting, and that is one time a year. Their bylaws will require them to have an annual meeting, and they will do some things there at that annual meeting, one of which will be to elect their board of directors, their new leadership if they choose to. The other thing they will do is vote on amendments to their documents, if there are any. They may vote on some financial matters where they are moving money among reserve accounts, and that can be again, something else we can talk about later and this is the financial part. But basically, the owners meeting is for elections and voting on amendments. Those are the only things really that owners do. They don't get involved in the daily maintenance and operations of the association. And any kind of violation complaints or maintenance complaints that they have should be directed and addressed someplace else, the annual meeting is not where those are addressed. But this is where we see some of those meetings devolve into complaint sessions and-- - 'Cause they get 'em once a year, and I've got you here for this year. Betsy- And a lot of communities have managers, and those complaints and concerns need to go through management, they're not addressed at the owners meeting. There's nothing that can be done about it at the owners meeting. So, there's no real point in griping and complaining. So, hopefully the owners meet one time a year. The other group that meets is the board of directors. And the board of directors will meet based on whatever their frequency needs are. Some meet monthly, others will meet quarterly, some meet semiannually. If you have a really small community with no amenities, and very compliant owners, then you might not have a lot of need for monthly meetings. Suzanne - Sure. Betsy- In our Florida Statutes, owners are allowed to attend the board meetings, but the board meetings are not for them. And this is a huge misunderstanding. Suzanne - Why is that important? Betsy- Well, it's important because this is a multimillion dollar corporation, and the board is having its meetings to run a multimillion dollar corporation. So, they're making decisions on policies and procedures and violations, dealing with contracts, dealing with vendors and making sure that things are maintained. It's not an informational meeting for the owners, and that tends to be what they devolve into. Suzanne - Power? Betsy- Mm-hmm. Suzanne - Mm-hmm. Betsy- And I'm not saying that we don't want to give information to the owners. There are other venues newsletters, websites, weekly, monthly coffees at the clubhouse, there's plenty of other opportunity to give owners information, but the board meeting is not where it's supposed to be. Suzanne - I gotcha. Betsy- And part of the reason, and this is gonna upset people, so, I'll just go on and tell people and forget the time that they're gonna be upset. Suzanne - It just is get it out of the way. Betsy- Get it out here. At the board meeting, the board should not ever sit in a panel style. When they sit in a panel style, and the owners who are attending sit there, it looks like the board's talking to them. Suzanne - Right, like they're being served. Betsy- Right. Betsy- And they're answering to them. Betsy- And it looks like the dialogue is this way. Now, where our boards differ from other kinds of boards. Our boards cannot talk to each other about association business, unless it's what we call an open meeting, open to the owners. They cannot make any secret decisions and secret votes and things like that, everything is done in an open manner. That means then, that the only time the board can talk about its business is when it's together at these board meetings. If you're sitting in a panel style, Suzanne, you cannot do business with people whose eyeballs you cannot say. If I'm in the middle of this panel, I'm gonna have to stand up, lean over and go, hey. You know. Suzanne - You're connected to the wrong audience. Betsy- Exactly, so I'm going to encourage boards to pull those tables around. You know, how does corporate America sit? At board table. Suzanne - Sure. Betsy- They sit with their eyeballs facing each other. So, I want boards sitting so that they can see each other's eyeballs. Suzanne - That would be kinda like having, when you talk about corporations almost having it set up to where they're facing their employees? That's just not, and when you think of it that way, it's not right. Betsy- No, and it's not an informational meeting, it is to do business. So, these meetings shouldn't be more than an hour, hour and a half long, they should not devolve into three and four hour meetings. If that continues to happen, how are you ever gonna get board members to volunteer to be on the board? Suzanne - Right, when you say devolve, what are some of the biggest, most normal topics that get brought up that-- Betsy- I tell you. Suzanne - Cause a meeting to go? Betsy - When owners come to the meeting, and they are allowed to hijack it. Suzanne - Okay, that's the problem. Betsy- Because the board doesn't know. See, this goes back to what we talked about in an earlier episode, that the board serves the documents, it serves the statutes. It's not a representative form of government, so having all of the owners make these unsolicited comments, drags the board and pulls it in all sorts of different direction. When the board can stay on topic, then business will be conducted. Our Florida Statutes require the boards to produce an agenda of the things that they're gonna talk about. The only things that can be addressed at that board meeting are the things on the agenda. Suzanne - So, if you get an owner and they're shouting, ignore it. Betsy - They can't be addressed anyway, because it's not on the agenda. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - And it sounds really bad, but this meeting is not for the owners, it's for the board. Suzanne - It's not about you. Right. Betsy- And if I may, let me kind of step back and say that the board of directors has a fiduciary duty to the owners. And what that means on kind of a practical level, why that matters, is fiduciary would be similar to your financial planner. Your financial planner is handling your assets. So, the board of directors is handling the assets of owners, our homes, homes, that's probably the biggest asset a lot of people have. Suzanne - Absolutely. Betsy- Your financial planner would never make decisions about your assets without you knowing about it. Suzanne - They better not. Betsy- Without you knowing about it. Suzanne - They better not. Betsy- In that similar way, then the board of directors cannot make decisions about our assets, without the owners having an opportunity to be there and listen. They don't have input, except on agenda items. So, there are no new things that can be brought up at a board meeting, unless it's on the agenda because of that fiduciary duty. Owners get to know 48 hours in advance, everything, every topic that the board is going to talk about. So, when an owner is allowed to make a comment that has nothing to do with an item on the agenda, that's when they start to devolve. And I'll tell you what those comments are on. Suzanne - What's them? Betsy- Maintenance, complaints and violation complaints. Suzanne - All the time. Betsy- Neither of which can be addressed at the board meeting. Neither of which can be addressed at the board meeting. It's not on the agenda. And that's a management issue, violations and maintenance, that's management issues, so those should be directed to your manager, or to the board member who is the point person for violations and maintenance. Suzanne - All right, well, let's dig deeper into this. We're gonna come back and we're gonna talk about Robert's Rules of Order. Betsy- Oh, okay . Suzanne - You're ready to talk about them? Betsy- All right. Suzanne - All right, we'll be right back. Suzanne - Okay, so let's dive into Robert's Rules of Order. I don't even know what that means, I had to look at my notes, what is that? Betsy- It is a system of parliamentary procedures, and where does the word parliamentary come from? Suzanne - England. Betsy- England, okay. It was written by General Henry Martyn Robert, in 1876. He's a Huguenot descendant which is British English, so it kinda reads like the King James Bible. Suzanne - Oh, my gosh, okay. Betsy- It's a lot, it's a lot. This book is usually referred to in the documents as the way the meetings are conducted. Often in your bylaws, it will say that your meetings are conducted based on the latest edition of Robert's Rules of Order. Quite frankly, I don't remember not knowing about Robert's Rules of Order. Suzanne - Really? Betsy- We used these procedures in high school in our clubs. Suzanne - Huh! Betsy- So, I don't really remember not knowing about it, but-- Betsy- I haven't been in a lot of clubs apparently. Or I've broken a lot of rules, I don't know. Suzanne - I just-- Suzanne - Interesting. Suzanne - Just have a knowledge of them that I sense goes back to high school. Suzanne - Can I just randomly open it and see what-- Betsy- Sure. Suzanne - Let's see what exciting information I find? Betsy- Oh, go over to this page. Suzanne - Go to that one? Okay, this last one? Okay. Betsy- Yeah, that one. Suzanne - "In a board meeting where there are not more "than about a dozen members present some of the formality "that is necessary in a large assembly "would hinder businesses." Betsy- Oh, stop right there! Suzanne - Okay, . Betsy- That is excellent! Suzanne - Was that a good one? Betsy- Yes, yes, we didn't even plan that, that was good. Know what she just said right there was-- Betsy- What she just said, is that this book is overkill for our board meetings is what you just said in plain English. Suzanne - Okay, I feel so smart.   Betsy- This book is overkill. And there are exceptions for the formalities that City Council county commissioners use, there are exceptions to those formalities for our boards. And small boards are considered 12 or fewer, which mostly our boards are. And it allows for informal conversation before a motion is made. And in in our communities, because our boards can't talk to each other before the meeting about issues, then you can't come with a prepared motion like you could at City Council. Suzanne - Oh, I see, I see. Betsy- So, they don't know that they might need to take action on something until they actually get to the meeting. So, it allows informal conversation. It allows the chair, the president, to speak and make motions. And our Florida Statutes require that a vote be recorded for every board member president, every board member present, which means the president does vote. And that is a misunderstanding that we have in a lot of our boards. They think that the president does not vote, which is a common practice in Robert's Rules of Order. But we have to weave the statute in that says there has to be a vote recorded of every board member present. Betsy- So, I'm just gonna throw this as open. Is there ever a conflict between Robert's Rules, and what happens at a, or do they always just mesh, does one override if there's a? Betsy- They should mesh, except that there is usually one person in your community who knows this book, backwards and forwards. And they will use some obscure motion, or yell something from out there and-- Betsy- They're my favorite. Betsy- And it confounds and confuses the board president and what I try to spend a lot of time on in my other CAM classes, is teaching managers what to do to bail a board president out, because our job is to make the board president look good. Suzanne - Sure, sure, and stay strong, yeah. So, one of the things that really stands out to me, 'cause we're starting to wrap up the show, the seating of a board meeting that just makes so much sense, you're not serving the people. Betsy- The seating of the board is critical. You cannot do business with people whose eyeballs you cannot see. This is not an informational meeting for the owners, so the board needs to sit facing themselves. I didn't mention I don't think, the seating in the owners meeting. And this is gonna upset people, but the seating at the owners meeting there is no board. The board of directors does not sit up front. The board of directors has no collective authority at an owners meeting. Suzanne - Wow! Betsy- Board members are owners and they just need to go sit wherever. The chair is the president. The president is the president of the corporation, not just the president of the board. So, the president of the corporation will chair the owners meeting, the president of the corporation will chair the board meeting. Suzanne - Oh, no kidding. Betsy- But the head of the room for the owners meeting is likely wherever the chair chooses to stand. Have a lectern stand behind it. If secretary wants to give a report, he or she can come up, give a report, go sit back down, treasurer can come up, give a report, go sit back down. Suzanne - Lot less formal, yeah.   Betsy- There's no board at an owners meeting. So there's no reason to sit together. Suzanne - Wow, there is a lot to know. I feel like we're just scratching the surface. And I mean, if I can just put a little plug in for you, if you live in Florida, you need to reach out to Betsy because I'm pretty sure she has this whole thing memorized. No, pretty close, and well you know a lot of stuff. Betsy- Just the procedures for small boards. Suzanne - Well, thank you so much seriously. And be sure to subscribe, because there's a whole lot of more episodes that are coming out, we don't want you to miss anything that's already happened. And most importantly, we want you to know why CAM matters. Betsy- Thank you Suzanne. Suzanne - Yeah, thank you. Narrator - Thank you for listening to "CAM Matters". Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. For more information, feel free to email Betsy at betsy@floridacamschools.com or visit the Florida CAM School's website at www.floridacamschools.com. Information provided on this show is general in nature and does not constitute legal advice. Please contact a licensed attorney for your specific situation.

Betsy Barbieux explains how the community association is structured like a municipality. However, the board of directors doesn't function as a representative form of government. While a city council represents the citizens, a community association board's sole responsibility is to follow the statutes and bylaws of the community.   TRANSCRIPT   Betsy - Hi, I'm Betsy, and in today's episode of CAM Matters, we are going to finish our history lesson of how we got here, how we ended up with all of these condos, co-ops and HOAs, and we'll end with an analogy to a municipality. Ooh, that rhymes. Betsy - Stay tuned. Announcer - Welcome to CAM Matters, Condos, Co-ops, HOAs and Beyond. Betsy Barbieux is an information leader in Florida on community association living, rights and obligations. She is an expert on the rights and obligations of owners, as well as the association. If you live or are planning to live in the state of Florida, there's a good chance you'll be part of a community association. And by the end of this show, you'll know a little bit more about community associations and why they matter. Suzanne - Well, welcome. We're glad that you're joining us for another episode of CAM Matters. I'm Suzanne Lynn, the host, and Betsy Barbieux. We are glad that you're here. You're the expert. So we're gonna just dive right in. And we kinda left off on the first episode of how did we even come to having community associations. And I think that we left off in the first episode on, we were in Miami and we were talking about corporations and boards. Betsy - Yes, we were. We were having a history lesson-- Suzanne - That's right. Betsy - That went all the way back to the 1960s. Suzanne - This is why we need to do it in two segments, 'cause as far as a student goes, I need a little more time to digest. So let's go ahead and pick that up. Betsy - Where we were with our last episode was talking about the developers in Miami creating community associations, corporations, and selling stacked air. Suzanne - Right, right, that's what it is, yeah. Betsy - It is, stacked air, and it was a little odd. The legislators told the developers that they could not create those kinds of communities anymore until they first created a Florida corporation. And we talked last time about corporations having board of directors, and that the board of directors and the documents, and I brought some with me today, I brought props. Suzanne - There ya go. Betsy - The board of directors has a threefold mandate from the legislature, and that is to protect the property and its value, maintain the things that are used in common, like swimming pools or exteriors of buildings, and enforce the restrictions on the owner's use rights. Suzanne - Okay, so protect, maintain and enforce. Betsy - Enforce, that's the purpose of the corporation, which means that's the purpose of the board of directors. That's their mission statement. And I call it the presumed statutory mission statement. And just as a little tease, that will be the purpose of the board meetings. And in another episode, we'll talk about board meetings. Suzanne - Oh, boy, I bet that's gonna be very interesting 'cause I've been to some and I know-- Betsy - At a board meeting. We'll talk about those. We'll talk about those. But the purpose of the board meeting and the purpose of the board is to fulfill the mandate of the statutes and of the documents. Now when I say documents, I wanna just show you what I'm talking about. Suzanne - Okay.   Betsy - Because when I say condominium, I think most people see a building. Suzanne - Definitely, yep. Tall. Betsy - Tall building. And I think when I say homeowner associations-- Suzanne - I see a house and a yard. Betsy - A house and a yard, garage. If I say co-op, you probably have no clue. Suzanne - I have, no, no. Betsy - Most people-- Suzanne - I think of, like, a farmers market or something. Betsy - My dad was a citrus broker, and he had citrus farmer, growers, co-ops, but that is not this. That is not this. Suzanne - So what do you see when you say these words? Betsy - Well, when I say these words, I see that this is a condo. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - It's paper. This is a co-op. Suzanne - Hm. Betsy - And this is your homeowner association. Suzanne - Wow. Suzanne - So when I'm saying--Where's the bathroom? I can't see that. Where's my coffee pot? Betsy - Where's my grass? Suzanne - Yeah. Betsy - This is a homeowner's association, this is a co-op, and this is a condominium. All these papers are recorded in the public records, those that relate to your community, you have a set of these, and they are in the public records at the county courthouse. So you do have access to these, and you likely have a copy of these and you need a copy of these. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - But the point is, is that this community is a legal structure. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - And it has rules and laws and paper to follow. And that's the goal Betsy - Lots of paper. of the board of directors, is to serve the papers. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - But in those early days, as the developers were building, what the legislator said to themselves was, "You know what? We've made them have a corporation. "It has a board of directors, "has a threefold mission statement, "but every corporation needs people." Betsy - Right So from now on, anyone who buys into one of these communities, whether it's a condo, co-op or HOA, when they buy into this community, you have become a mandatory member of the corporation. And that means that you have just become contractually obligated to everything that's in here. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - You have now just agreed that you will abide by everything that's in here. I don't think that it's quite put that way to buyers when they move in. Suzanne - It's never been to me as we moved in, no. Betsy - But this is a contract. It's a legally binding contract. When you moved here, you agreed to everything in it, which again, and maybe I'll just give a little tease for that, but another episode, we can talk about violations and enforcement. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - Because if you violate something here, it's gonna be the board's duty to enforce compliance. We always hope for voluntary compliance. Suzanne - Sure. Betsy - but if not, you will have violated the contractual provisions here. So let's keep goin'. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - We've got a corporation, has a mandate. We know it's got a board of directors, and the corporation now has people. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - All of the owners belong to the corporation. But think about in those early days, another huge issue would have been money. Suzanne - Sure. Betsy - Where's the money to pay to fix stuff? Suzanne - Right. To protect, to maintain and enforce. Betsy - To protect, maintain and enforce. You're learnin' something! Suzanne - I know! I'm getting it! Look at you! You're doin' so good! So where does the money come from? The legislators gave the corporation the ability to, and I'm gonna use the word very loosely. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - Okay, to 'tax.' Betsy - Okay. It's people. And the statute and your documents will call that 'tax' the assessment. The assessment is the regular amount of money that an owner pays for their share of protecting, and maintaining, and enforcing. Betsy - And enforcing! Yes! It's what they pay for their share of that. You likely in your community call that fee, that assessment, a condo fee, HOA fee, dues, amenities fees, maintenance fee. You might call it somethin' else, but the statute and your documents likely call it assessment. So that's the word I'm gonna use. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - And that is just the regular amount of money that an owner pays for their share of the protection, maintenance, and enforcemnt. Suzanne - And enforcement. We've gotta do it in that order, or else I'm gonna mess it up. Betsy - I'm gonna mess it up too. But can you imagine that there had to be at least one person in South Florida who just kinds folded their arms and said, "Make me pay." Suzanne - Ooh. Betsy - Yeah. Suzanne - Yeah. Betsy - So the legislators said, "Okay!" Suzanne - We can do that! Betsy - Okay! Okay! We can do that! So the legislators gave the corporation, whether it's a condo, co-op, or HOA, gave the corporation the lien right, the L-I-E-N right. Betsy - Okay. Betsy - Which is the ability to take your home from you. Suzanne- So this is serious? Betsy - This is serious. Suzanne - This is a foundation of you buying your home Betsy - This is serious. or property-- Betsy - Now I don't know how much more plainly to say it, but if you don't comply, and we go through a legal procedure, we will take your home. I don't know how else to say that. It was the original intent, I believe, of the legislature, that the corporation would always be made whole, for every penny that's due to it. So every penny. Because we need the money to maintain things. Suzanne - Right, right. Betsy - So the-- Betsy - Honestly it just takes one crack and the whole thing falls apart, right? I mean, everybody's gotta-- Betsy - Stucco falls off buildings-- Suzanne - Right! Exactly. Betsy - And if you're on the coast, you're gonna be in constant need of concrete restoration, rebar, all those kinds of things, all the balcony railing, all those things are gonna rust and rot and they're gonna need to be replaced, so, yes. If you're interior, in the interior part of Florida, you don't have those-- Suzanne - Right. kinds of maintenance issues Betsy - But there's always stuff. Yeah. Betsy - Yeah. It doesn't take much. If you look at at what we have just described, we have actually described something that is similar to a municipality. Suzanne - In the way of paying taxes. Betsy - Well, think about this. The whole setup. The board of directors would be similar to the city council. Betsy - Okay. The city manager would be me, the CAM. The city so to speak, the community, serves a geographic area for which the residents pay. And if you don't pay, we cut you off, so to speak. Suzanne - Right, right. Betsy - So it's similar to a municipality, except for one thing. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - And this is really big, because this is where it is so totally misunderstood. This is not a representative form of government. Where your city councilman may represent your district, your part of the town, or the county commissioner may represent your part of the county, the board of directors does not represent the people. Suzanne - It sounds like the board of directors, or the board, is to enforce. To make sure the rules, no matter. They're not to coddle to the-- Suzanne - No. the residents. Betsy - And cannot. Betsy - Right, okay. Betsy - And this is where boards stall in making decisions. Because they think they're supposed to bow to the wishes of the people, and this group over here wants this, and this group over here wants that, and all I wanna know is, what are your documents say and what are the statutes? Suzanne - That's the North Star. Betsy - This, it's kinda like we're boxed in with the decisions. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - We're boxed in by statues, Florida administrative code, and documents. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - And the board can only act in that box. Suzanne - So there's really no opinion. It's right there.   Betsy - No, and, you know, and it's not that we don't wanna hear from the people. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - We do wanna hear from the people, but we can't do everything that you want done. The board is restricted. So it's not a representative form of government. It's not really, in a sense, like a true democracy, that if a majority of the owners all vote to do something, it doesn't mean it can be done. Suzanne - Right, right. Betsy - You go back-- Suzanne - You have to go back to this, and go back to the statutes. Suzanne - So one thing as we're kinda wrapping up this show, you had said that this is almost under under every one of your homes, in a way. Can you explain what you mean by that? Betsy - Each of these sets, in every community in Florida, that is a community association, has one of these. They're recorded in the public records. And I'm kinda visual, so the way I see that, is that when they're recorded, they're buried in the ground. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - Underneath the community. And so these run with the land. It's the term that we use, 'runs with the land,' and as the homes, or the units in the condominiums sell and buy, sell and buy, sell and buy, the deeds sit on top, and they change from owner to owner, to owner. But these run with the land. They never leave. They run with the land. And because they are recorded in the public records, you know what? Suzanne - What? Betsy - That makes 'em public. Suzanne - Well that's a good title for it then. Betsy - They're not hidden. They're not hidden. These can be easily found by anyone who wishes to search for them. Suzanne - So they say, "No excuse. "It was available to you, "you could see it." Betsy - And you know what Suzanne - that's like? Betsy - Mmm mmm. Betsy - It's like the publicly posted speed limit sign. There is a presumption of knowledge of these. Because they are publicly posted. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - Similarly, there is a public, there is an acknowledgement, presumption, of the publicly posted speed limit sign. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - If you pass a speed limit sign back there ten miles ago out on the back road, and the deputy sheriff stops you and says, "Ma'am, do you know how fast you were goin'?" Is ignorance an excuse? Suzanne - No. Betsy - Likely not. Suzanne - No, no. Same thing. Betsy - Likely not. When you get behind the seat, in the driver's seat of a car, you're presumed to know all the Florida driver's handbook rules. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - The same is true here. The presumption of knowledge is that you know about these because they are publicly posted. Suzanne - Wow.   Betsy - And when an owner is approached and asked to voluntarily comply to something in here, their first excuse is, "Well, I don't know anything about those." Suzanne - Well, it's-- Betsy - Well, yes you do. Yes you do. Because you became contractually obligated to everything in here, and acknowledged them, whether you know it or not, acknowledged them as soon as you signed on the dotted line. Suzanne - Whew. That was a lot. We covered a lot. Betsy - That's a lot. And you know, I love the comparison to a municipality. That all makes a lot of sense. And what I'm taking away from this show is no excuses. It's public and your bound-- Betsy - And it's the board's duty. And if the board doesn't make one person comply, then it's-- Betsy - It all falls apart. Betsy - We're supposed to be equitable in enforcing the compliance and we can't let one go around it, and then enforce on another. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - That really makes for bad neighbors. Suzanne - It sure does. That was great, awesome. Thank you Betsy, I enjoyed that one, yeah. Betsy - You're welcome. And that's why CAM matters. Announcer - Thank you for listening to CAM matters. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. For more information, feel free to email Betsy at betsy@floridacamschools.com or visit the Florida CAM Schools website at www.floridacamschools.com. Information provided on this show is general in nature and does not constitute legal advice. Please contact a licensed attorney for your specific situation.

If you live in Florida, there's a good chance you're one of the 9 million people who live in a community association. In the first episode of CAM Matters, Betsy Barbieux shares how these associations became so prevalent in the state and explains the difference between condominium, cooperative, and homeowner associations.   TRANSCRIPT Announcer - Welcome to "CAM Matters." Condos, Co-Ops, HOAs, and Beyond. Betsy Barbieux is an information leader in Florida on community association living, rights, and obligations. She is an expert on the rights and obligations of owners, as well as the association. If you live or are planning to live in the state of Florida, there's a good chance you'll be part of a community association. And by the end of this show, you'll know a little bit more about community associations and why they matter. Suzanne - Hi, I'm Suzanne Lynn. This is Betsy Barbieux, and we're so excited about the series that's coming up on "CAM Matters." And I got your name right. I'm so happy. Betsy - You did. You did. We practiced a lot. Suzanne - You've got an x in there, so it kinda made me nervous, 'cause I failed French. I'm like, "I can't do this," but it's Barbieux. Suzanne - Barbieux. Right. Betsy - You did, you did good, yay! Suzanne - Well, Betsy, this is really important because, living in Florida, there's a lot of community associations, and we wanna start with the very basics today. Betsy - That'll be fine. Suzanne - Basically, how did we even get here, with all these association livings? Betsy - Well, do you want me to go back to the 1960s? Suzanne - Go back, the 60s were a good... that was a good decade. Betsy - I'm gonna go way, way back to the 1960s and give you a little history lesson. In Central Florida, which is where I'm from, here in central Florida, we did not have a thing called a developer. In those days, we had builders. And our little neighborhoods, the one I lived in had a name, didn't have a sign, didn't have a gate, but it had a name. It had streets, sidewalks, and streetlights. I have no idea how they got there, but they did. When you drove down the street, you could tell that the houses were each built by a different builder. We had the Sam Powell Construction Company. We had the Clell Coleman Construction Company that had built houses on the street, and then further down the street, you could tell that the owner built their own house. There was no uniformity in construction. There were no roof-pitch uniformities, exteriors. Suzanne - No rhyme or reason. Betsy - No rhyme or reason. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - We had a swimming pool in our yard. It was not the community swimming pool, but it was the community swimming pool. Suzanne - Right, right, yeah, I know how that works, yeah. Betsy - Across the street, they had the jungle gym and the swing set. It wasn't the community one, but it was. Suzanne - It was, yeah. Betsy - At some point, the streets and sidewalks and streetlights needed to be fixed, so our parents are knocking on the doors of the city council and the county commissioners, sayin', "Somebody fix our streets and sidewalks." And the cities and the counties are kinda scratchin' their heads, and they're kinda sayin', "Well..." Suzanne - Like who's responsible. Betsy - If we do, who fixes it? Suzanne - Everybody who pays... Betsy - Who pays for it? That's the big thing. Does the city pay for it? County pay for it? Do we assess the owners? We have the dilemma starting to happen in the 60s in Central Florida. But we're gonna put a pause on that. Suzanne - Okay. Betsy - And we're gonna go to South Florida in the 1960s, and there was this thing born called the developer. And, by golly, he bought a city block, built an apartment building on it, filled it full of renters, and then said, "Ick. "I do not wanna be in the landlord business." And he says, "You know what I'm gonna do? "I'm gonna turn this thing into condos and sell 'em." Now, think about that , 'cause for about 6,000 years, everybody has always owned dirt. Now, he is selling stacked air. Think about all of the things that had to be changed and created and regulations and laws. Think about mortgage companies. They had to create new products because somebody's coming to them saying, "I need a mortgage on air." And the the banks are goin', "But we mortgage dirt." Suzanne - Right, what a huge change Betsy - You want a mortgage... Suzanne - of thinking, yeah. Betsy - "You want a mortgage on air?" Think about the insurance industry: "You want renter's insurance?" "Nope, I own the air." Suzanne - Right . Betsy - I own the air in my condo. The dilemmas then that happened from that must have been horrible because, when you look at the legislation then that has been pushed forward through literally the decades, there must have been a lot of things that went wrong. And those things that went wrong mostly had to do with money and mostly had to do with power and control. The folks in South Florida had money. We didn't have any money in Central Florida. We just had cattle and oranges and watermelons. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - But in South Florida, they had money. Suzanne - They doesn't buy you a lot of air. Betsy - But they hired attorneys who hired lobbyists who began then to promulgate the laws so that, through the decades, the legislation has come to this point where it says, "Okay, Mr. Developer, "you cannot do this anymore. "Build this building, fill it full of people, "or start one from scratch, "and, oh by the way, you homeowners in Central Florida, "we're gonna catch you in this legislation eventually. "We're gonna fold you into this eventually. "But you can't do this anymore until you first create "a Florida corporation and tell us "what kind of corporation is it going to be. "Is it gonna be a condominium corporation, "cooperative corporation, or "a homeowner association corporation?" In Florida, you cannot have a Florida corporation... and I'm gonna say nationwide and probably in the rest of the civilized world. You can't have a corporation without a board of directors. So this corporation has an initial board of directors, but think about it. There isn't anybody. We don't have anybody but the developer, but the developer has to name somebody to be the initial board of directors. So he likely is going to name someone on his staff, probably himself, his wife, his CEO, his CFO. He's gotta start somewhere. Suzanne - Well, he's got a lot of interest in this. Betsy - Yes, and he's gotta start somewhere. So that board... and when you move into one of the communities, you'll see the phrase developer-controlled board or developer-appointed board, and I think either of those phrases make sense. And that board then is responsible for three things. And, in these corporate papers, it'll state this. The board, the association is responsible for maintaining the property. Yeah, mm-hmm. For protecting the property and the value, maintaining the things that are used in common, and enforcing the restrictions in the governing documents. Those are the three things that community associations are for. Suzanne - Okay, say them again. Maintaining... Betsy - Protecting the property and its value, maintaining the things that are used in common, and enforcing the restrictions. And the restrictions are all on owners' use rights of what they can do with their property. That's the purpose of a community association. It's not to bow to the wishes of the people. It is to do those three things. Suzanne - They're not king, queen... Betsy - No. - and court . Betsy - And this board of directors is not really a representative form of government. They don't serve a constituency. They serve the documents. The serve... Betsy - They work for the corporation, and the sole purpose of the corporation is protect the property, maintain the things that are used in common, and enforce the restrictions. Suzanne - So when we say, "CAM Matters," what does CAM, C-A-M, what does that mean, and what's it stand for? CAM means community association manager. Betsy - And because boards volunteer for their roles, 'cause, eventually, the developer people get off the board and you Suzanne - Move into... Betsy - be on the board. And, eventually, then those owners would prefer to enjoy their lifestyle. They wanna play golf. They wanna do their activities. Lotta communities are retirement communities. So they hire professional management. Because the board is handing off to managers their fiduciary responsibility for protecting the value, maintaining, and enforcing, then we have to have a state license. So CAM, community association manager, means that we have a CAM license. We are licensed by the Department of Business and Professional Regulation. We have to have a set of standards that we follow. We have standards of professional conduct. We have rules of professional conduct, for which violations of, we can be penalized. We have to take continuing ed every two years and have lot of responsibility for managing the whole corporate structure of the community. So we're handlin' all of the legal obligations, the financial obligations, and the corporate obligations. Suzanne - What does someone need to know about living in a community association? Betsy - Ooo. Suzanne - I know, just kind of, this is the first episode of all that we're gonna do. Betsy - Okay. Suzanne - But just kind of a 40,000 foot view. Betsy - Let me just preface that by lookin' here at a couple of things. Approximately 9,000,600 people live in community associations in Florida. Suzanne - Just in Florida? Betsy - Right now. Right now. Suzanne - Oh my gosh, okay.   Betsy - And there are approximately 3,600,000 homes in 47,000 community associations. So it is likely that, if you move to Florida, you are going to live in one of these community associations. What . Excuse me. What you need to know is sometimes, this kind of community living is not for you. But for a lot of people, it is because it's kind of a trade-off. You're going to... Suzanne - What do you mean by that? Betsy - You're gonna move into a community that you have chosen because it provides a lifestyle. You either like the style of the home. You like the fact that it's gated, which does not mean it's secure. It just means limited access. Suzanne - Lawn maintenance. Betsy - Lawn maintenance could be taken care of. Exterior maintenance could be taken care of. You might have a pool, tennis court, shuffleboard court, clubhouse that you can use anytime you want to. And you don't have to do anything to maintain it. You pay someone else to maintain it. But you have those privileges in exchange for giving up some of your home ownership rights. Suzanne - I know of one because we live in a community association. For example, painting the house. You have to have that approved. Betsy - Yes. We have, usually in homeowner associations, a committee called the architectural review committee. And if you wanna paint your house or put up a fence or install a pool, or remove... Suzanne - We wanted to paint fuchsia, and they said no. No, I'm just kidding. Betsy - Ah, yes, they would say no. Suzanne - Yeah, but generally, it's like a very neutral... Betsy - Yes. Suzanne - And the rules, they can be what you might consider kinda strict. Betsy - Well, they are strict. And you cannot just paint your house any color that you wish. And if you live in a condominium association, the exterior doesn't even belong to you, so it's gonna be painted whatever the board of directors decides that it's painted. Suzanne - What are some other rules that associations... Betsy - The rules will differ slightly between a condominium association and a homeowner association because, in a homeowner association, you do own the dirt that your home is on, which means you are responsible, in most cases, for the outside of your home. But you may not be able to plant any vegetation that you want. You may not be able to paint anything that you want. You may have a restriction on... the backing of the curtains that face the street. You may have a restriction of what that looks like. You may not be able to put any foil on your windows. Might not be able to stick an antenna in your roof if you don't want cable. So there could be restrictions on what is done to the exterior even though... In a homeowners association, it is yours. In a condo association, the exterior of the building is not yours. It belongs to all owners collectively, which is an interesting concept. It's a brain cramp to kind of figure that out. But in community associations that are condominiums, very often, you can't hang a wreath on your door. You might be restricted. Suzanne - Really? Wow.   Betsy - You might be restricted as to the placement... you are allowed to fly a flag, but you could be restricted on where it's placed. And you can only fly one American flag 365 days of the year and on five days of the year, you can fly a second flag representing the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard. Suzanne - Wow. So when you talk about, "It's a trade-off," as you're comin' over the Florida line, and you're coming from, well, in our case, South Dakota, where there were no restrictions. Betsy - You're out on the back 40. Suzanne - Right. Betsy - And you're not now. Suzanne - But, I mean, honestly for us, it's right to live in a community association, but you need to look at the rules before you buy. - Yes. Suzanne - Right? Betsy - And the rules and regulations are public. So you can know all of those before you buy. In fact, you can know all of those before you go shopping on that piece of property. All of the restrictions are of public record. All you would have to do is go to the courthouse, look at the public records for that community. If you don't like the restrictions that you are reading, don't go shoppin' there. Suzanne - Right, right. They're not gonna change for you. Suzanne - They're not gonna change. Betsy - And then, on a final note, know also if you live in a community association, that if you're walking the dog around the block, you may be asked to be on the board. So be prepared for that, too. Betsy - And you have to take care of the waste of your pet. Suzanne - Right, and they're serious about that. Betsy - Yes, they're very serious about that, and there are some communities that require photos and DNA samples of your... Suzanne - I've heard that. Betsy - pet, so that they can correctly identify the leftovers. Suzanne - But you know, this... Betsy - I couldn't let that go. Betsy - I don't know how to put that more delicately. Suzanne - You know, the whole point, though, is to make it a nicer, more beautiful, safer place to live, right? Betsy - It is absolutely right. It is not meant to antagonize you or make you mad on purpose. It's to maintain the uniformity. And the home values in community associations are said to be five to six percent higher than non-deed restricting communities. So the uniformity, the more pristine look because you don't drive down the street and see cars up on blocks with their oil bein' changed in the driveway or abandoned vehicles. We don't see a whole lot of trash cans left out for the whole week. We don't usually see the basketball hoops and the plastic swing sets and things in the yards. Suzanne - Clotheslines. Betsy - Clotheslines, don't usually see those. So those all make the community look much more attractive. So it is a trade-off. Consider wisely whether this kind of living is for you. It is for about 9,600,000 people. It is for them. But it may not be for you. Suzanne - Yeah. Well, thank you. I'm lookin' forward to the rest of our series. We've got a lot to cover. Betsy - Yes, we do. Suzanne - On "CAM Matters." Betsy - Yes, we do. Suzanne - Thank you, Betsy. Betsy - Thank you. Announcer - Thank you for listening to "CAM Matters." Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. For more information, feel free to e-mail Betsy at betsy@floridacamschools.com or visit the Florida CAM Schools website at www.floridacamschools.com. Information provided on this show is general in nature and does not constitute legal advice. Please contact a licensed attorney for your specific situation.