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The Human Possibility Is your humanness a possibility but you are believing it’s you? Because you believe the body is you, the mind is you..so then the possibility doesn’t live. So unless you live your infinite nature, in other words, that you are so much more than a body or you are so much more than time and space, then you Awareness are aware and the life of the body, then the body begins to demonstrate its a living possibility of what you infinitely are. Flow begins because you are not mistaking the body to be you. Let me just kind of point to what happens when you mistake the body is you: you do suffer, you do have, as it were personal pain. But mostly you are dull or dead. When you Awareness do see that the body is not you, but is the possibility of you, in other words you being the living essence that has this form, this body, your infinity flows. The Celestial meets the possibility and it moves. And the possibility begins to demonstrate the infinity that one is, the beauty, the wonder, the mystery, the power, the joy, the incredible sensitivity, the warmth, the love, because its a possibility, its not what you are. But if you mistake the body for you, you'll get dull, you'll get fearful and then you'll mistake energies that move you to be a problem rather than energies are the light of your infinity moving. But if you've identified with the body those energies become dull and then what happens is we don't live this incredible possibility of having human form. It doesn't become celestial, it doesn't move as light, it doesn't move potentiality. Each and every one of us is the Beyond and having a form is incredible potentiality here. So Im asking you, are you realising that the body is the instrument of you, not you? And that energy moves according to your commitment of living and discovering what you are, like the salmon flowing back up the stream rather than just going downstream. So, you are flowing into what you've come out of, discovering what you are, with no beginning or end and that lands in this vehicle of potential. You begin to live a life that’s impactful, an impactful life that moves the celestial and transforms the terrestrial. And thats the inner marriage that manifests appearing as a human life. But when we do not live this, that we live small or we live as a separate sense, then we blame others for our fears that arise. We blame our father or our mother because he was so terrible to us. We blame our relationships more than likely past relationships because that person stopped me doing what I wanted to do. Thats actually just excuses, its just an excuse. We can develop ideas around 'thats not an excuse', but the deeper you go you won't develop those kind of excuses because you are entering the power and wonder of what you deeply are. Only the human needs an excuse, but you are infinite and when you embrace your humanness, embrace it, there is compassion which is essential and this vehicle comes alive and is responsive to what you directly are and it becomes an instrument and then the minds gets sharpened, or polished, or opened. The body becomes alive instead of dull because you are not holding on to history, you're not holding on to little mind excuses. You are truly a transformative beingness that's committed to the transformation of this moment because you know that you are infinite and this is a glorious infinite possibility called humanness. D8S4 Love's Great Reset Retreat 2021

Jason and Alan sat down to talk with Dr. Darin Dichter from Spear Education. They were taking the 3-day Occlusion Workshop and Darin was one of the instructors. This wide ranging discussion is spectacular and covers: Occlusion philosophies Dental School Continuing education and the struggle to implement ("getting reps") Student loan debt Not all dentists are clinicians! Critical thinking and understanding the literature Being a nontraditional student and perspective outside of school What is a terminal dentition, when do you know how to treat it and what's the "Treating the Terminal Dentition" course all about? Some links from the show: The Voices of Dentistry Dental Hacks Deals!: Enova Illumination has an amazing Dental Hacks discount on loupes and lights. Get that information at:  https://form.jotform.com/210247991392056 Be sure to get your Dental Hacks pricing at Crazy Dental by using coupon code: DHN10 The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 31,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! If you're done being stressed from the mess, it's time to have an organization conversation! Our friends at Zirc are here to help! Whether you need help with sterilization workflow, efficiency in the operatory or streamlining your storage...Zirc can help! Start YOUR organization conversation at dentalhacks.com/organizationconversation! You won't regret it! New Product Alert! Smart Scheduling by YAPI is here to help you keep your appointment books full and gain more new patients with online booking that is in YOUR control. Easily configure your accepted insurances, operatory/provider availability, and scheduling rules to match your unique workflows. Only qualified new patients can book their visit when they confirm their insurance - they can even take a photo from their phone! Your existing patients will have the easiest way to book their next cleaning when Smart Scheduling includes a link via text or email reminders automatically sent by YAPI. Dentrix users get first dibs on Smart Scheduling, but it should be available for Open Dental by the end of Apri! Plus...they're having an amazing sale with NO SET UP COSTS in April 2021! Learn more at https://yapiapp.com/online-scheduling Cosmedent's Mirror Image is a provisional material that does EVERYTHING. Fast setting times, margins are crisp and easy to trim and it polishes like a dream! Available in a wide variety of shades and two different sizes: dispensing gun and syringe! Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/mirrorimage! If you try it you'll love it! Crystal HD Mirrors are the brightest view in dentistry! They're amazingly bright and if you try them, you'll never go back! And now Zirc is giving members of the Dental Hacks Nation an amazing deal at dentalhacks.com/CrystalHD! Go Hack Yourself Jason: Acteon Trium CBCT Alan: Bose Frames If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Jason and Alan are joined by prosthodontist Dr. Doug Benting to talk about treating the edentulous arch! A lot of dentists have very little experience with dentures and edentulous arches and for this reason, many (most?) dentists don't like dentures! Doug is here to help! Is a high school kid that starts working in a dental lab destined to be a prosthodontist? Is "all on x" all it's cracked up to be? How do you know when someone's dentition is "terminal?" Are we too quick to take teeth out? Dealing with the psychology of people who are probably going to lose their teeth New and interesting ways to treat edentulous arches with implants Keeping teeth even though you know they're eventually going to be lost? What's up with digital dentures? Printing dentures vs. milling Instagram vs. the fundamentals...why learn dentures? Some links from the show: Treating the Edentulous Arch at Spear Dentsply Sirona WaveOne Gold with X-Smart IQ handpiece the and the Gutta Smart System Dental Hacks Deals!: You can get 50% off of AMD soft tissue lasers! For a short time only, the Dental Hacks Nation is offering an amazing discount off some of the most popular and easy to use soft tissue lasers in the business! Email Jason at dentcan3625@gmail.com or message him on Facebook for details! Dental Hacks Medit i500 deal! (starting at $17k + lab credit, rebate is at $1000 already! It will get bigger the more our group takes advantage!) Email us at info@dentalhacks.com and use "Medit" in the subject line or tab Jason on Facebook or text "Medit" to (804) 885-2233! Enova Illumination has an amazing Dental Hacks discount on loupes and lights. Get that information at:  https://form.jotform.com/210247991392056 Be sure to get your Dental Hacks pricing at Crazy Dental by using coupon code: DHN10 The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 31,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! If you're done being stressed from the mess, it's time to have an organization conversation! Our friends at Zirc are here to help! Whether you need help with sterilization workflow, efficiency in the operatory or streamlining your storage...Zirc can help! Start YOUR organization conversation at dentalhacks.com/organizationconversation! You won't regret it! New Product Alert! Smart Scheduling by YAPI is here to help you keep your appointment books full and gain more new patients with online booking that is in YOUR control. Easily configure your accepted insurances, operatory/provider availability, and scheduling rules to match your unique workflows. Only qualified new patients can book their visit when they confirm their insurance - they can even take a photo from their phone! Your existing patients will have the easiest way to book their next cleaning when Smart Scheduling includes a link via text or email reminders automatically sent by YAPI. Dentrix users get first dibs on Smart Scheduling, but it will soon be available for Open Dental and Eaglesoft as well. Learn more at https://yapiapp.com/online-scheduling Our Friend Dr. Artie Volker is giving a virtual course with Cosmedent! The course is called "Composite Power 101: Foundations" and it promises to be amazing! Artie is an amazing teacher and he's going over the basics of esthetics in his two day virtual course on April 8th and 9th! If you go to dentalhacks.com/compositepower you can sign up for $1500 AND get the entire hands on materials kit for FREE! (that's a savings of $400!). But sign up now because the window to get that kit to you is closing quickly! Artie is amazing and Cosmedent's CE is second to none! Go Hack Yourself Jason: Acteon Trium CBCT Alan: Bose Frames If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.  

Grace Rizza of Identity Dental Marketing joins the Dental Hacks to talk about something we should all be aware of. Grace has all kinds of ideas about all kinds of marketing, but in this episode we focus on marketing scams pointed at dentists! It's really insightful and really entertaining! In today's episode we discussed: How and why Grace entered into the dental marketing field Hijacking leads (what is a "lead?") Fear mongering sales tactics (will you go to jail if your website isn't ADA compliant?) "Hit and run" dental marketing agencies Google Ad spend scams Pay-per-lead scams and why you should never pay per lead Website directory scams Why annual contracts (and all contracts) should be avoided There is no such thing as a free website Why Grace thinks DIY courses are a bad idea Grace's take away points: avoid contracts retain ownership of website hosting and domains understand the basics, expectations and timelines of marketing track your new patient referral sources hold quarterly meetings with your marketing team Grace offers complimentary marketing planning sessions to give you an idea what she might be able to do for you! Send email to: Grace@identitydental.com or head over to the Identity Dental Marketing website! Some links from the show: Al's SEO article from Dental Economics from 2015-ish Dental Hacks Deals!: You can get 50% off of AMD soft tissue lasers! For a short time only, the Dental Hacks Nation is offering an amazing discount off some of the most popular and easy to use soft tissue lasers in the business! Email Jason at dentcan3625@gmail.com or message him on Facebook for details! Dental Hacks Medit i500 deal! (starting at $17k + lab credit, rebate is at $1000 already! It will get bigger the more our group takes advantage!) Email us at info@dentalhacks.com and use "Medit" in the subject line or tab Jason on Facebook or text "Medit" to (804) 885-2233! Enova Illumination has an amazing Dental Hacks discount on loupes and lights. Get that information at:  https://form.jotform.com/210247991392056 Be sure to get your Dental Hacks pricing at Crazy Dental by using coupon code: DHN10 The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 30,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  New Product Alert! Smart Scheduling by YAPI is here to help you keep your appointment books full and gain more new patients with online booking that is in YOUR control. Easily configure your accepted insurances, operatory/provider availability, and scheduling rules to match your unique workflows. Only qualified new patients can book their visit when they confirm their insurance - they can even take a photo from their phone! Your existing patients will have the easiest way to book their next cleaning when Smart Scheduling includes a link via text or email reminders automatically sent by YAPI. Dentrix users get first dibs on Smart Scheduling, but it will soon be available for Open Dental and Eaglesoft as well. Learn more at https://yapiapp.com/online-scheduling Our friends at Zirc want to know...are you stressed from mess? How is your organization at the office? Keeping materials straight and in the right place is a challenge for all of us. Zirc has some amazing solutions and they want to give you a free gift while having a little fun! The first 30 offices that post a photo of your disorganized materials using the hashtag #StressedFromMess in the Dental Hacks Nation will get a free Complete Tub Kit from Zirc! You even get to pick from their amazing 16 colors! This will help you start on your organization journey and you'll be able to have an organizational conversation with one of the clinical efficiency experts at Zirc! Dental Hacks Nation...let's see your mess! Head over to the Dental Hacks Nation Facebook group and show us your materials mayhem using the hashtag #StressedFromMess and get your free Complete Tub Kit! Our Friend Dr. Artie Volker is giving a virtual course with Cosmedent! The course is called "Composite Power 101: Foundations" and it promises to be amazing! Artie is an amazing teacher and he's going over the basics of esthetics in his two day virtual course on April 8th and 9th! If you go to dentalhacks.com/compositepower you can sign up for $1500 AND get the entire hands on materials kit for FREE! (that's a savings of $400!). But sign up now because the window to get that kit to you is closing quickly! Artie is amazing and Cosmedent's CE is second to none!  Go Hack Yourself Jason: The Lost Pirate Kingdom Alan: Proper Good soup If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Dental Hacks Nation.  

The Dental Hacks talk about the very basics of 3D printing with Jessica Knott! Jessica is a lab technician who quite literally lives and breathes digital dentistry! From evaluating every printer out there to developing new 3D printers, Jessica is the person to talk to if you're thinking of 3D printing in your office! Some topics include: Jessica's background in 3D printing (Uncle Sam helped!) The military is pretty cutting edge with 3D printing! Also security. Who knew? 3D printing vs. milling (additive vs. subtractive) 3D printing learning curve and working clean The difference in regulation between a lab vs. a dentist in their office What is 3D printing and how does it work? Why do 3D printing in the dental office? Is 3D printing the best use of the dentist's time? 3D printing workflows that optimize the use of a printer in the office while reducing the time that the dentist needs to spend CAD software and .stls...nesting and supporting types of 3D printers (laser, LCD and DLP) speed and accuracy...where (and when) to use what Why do you need a "lightbox?" What is "open" in 3D printing and why would you want this? You got a printer...now what? How do you get training? (the inevitable August de Oliveira name drop) Jessica helped design Ackuretta's new printers What software should they be looking at? Some links from the show: Ackuretta Dentiq Medit software (built in model build) Meshmixer Blender for Dental Exocad (and XOcademy by Shawn Van de Vyver) Jessica's contact info and sign up to receive breaking product information! Big Night Dental Hacks Deals!: Dental Hacks Medit i500 deal! (starting at $17k + lab credit, rebate is at $1000 already! It will get bigger the more our group takes advantage!) Email us at info@dentalhacks.com and use "Medit" in the subject line or tab Jason on Facebook or text "Medit" to (804) 885-2233! Enova Illumination has an amazing Dental Hacks discount on loupes and lights. Get that information at:  https://form.jotform.com/210247991392056 Be sure to get your Dental Hacks pricing at Crazy Dental by using coupon code: DHN10 The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Our friends at Zirc want to know...are you stressed from mess? How is your organization at the office? Keeping materials straight and in the right place is a challenge for all of us. Zirc has some amazing solutions and they want to give you a free gift while having a little fun! The first 30 offices that post a photo of your disorganized materials using the hashtag #StressedFromMess in the Dental Hacks Nation will get a free Complete Tub Kit from Zirc! You even get to pick from their amazing 16 colors! This will help you start on your organization journey and you'll be able to have an organizational conversation with one of the clinical efficiency experts at Zirc! Dental Hacks Nation...let's see your mess! Head over to the Dental Hacks Nation Facebook group and show us your materials mayhem using the hashtag #StressedFromMess and get your free Complete Tub Kit! New Product Alert! Smart Scheduling by YAPI is here to help you keep your appointment books full and gain more new patients with online booking that is in YOUR control. Easily configure your accepted insurances, operatory/provider availability, and scheduling rules to match your unique workflows. Only qualified new patients can book their visit when they confirm their insurance - they can even take a photo from their phone! Your existing patients will have the easiest way to book their next cleaning when Smart Scheduling includes a link via text or email reminders automatically sent by YAPI. Dentrix users get first dibs on Smart Scheduling, but it will soon be available for Open Dental and Eaglesoft as well. Learn more at https://yapiapp.com/online-scheduling You remember in dental school in your biomaterials class. It was the chapter after amalgam. They talked about composites. Different types of composites have different characteristics depending on particle size, etc. Ohhh...that's right. It seems like all you ever hear about composites is "universal." But let's be honest, one size does NOT fit all! If you do any anterior composite work, you really need a microfill! Microfilled composites like Cosmedent's Renamel microfill handle really nicely, have gorgeous translucency and polish like a dream. If it's been awhile since you've used microfill, you owe it to yourself to give it a try again! Our friend and mentor Buddy Mopper was right! Don't dumb down composites to just one type! Get yourself a microfill and see what a difference it makes. It comes in syringes AND compules and I guarantee you'll find a bunch of great uses for it! Check it out at dentalhacks.com/microfill! Go Hack Yourself Jason: Searching for Italy with Stanley Tuccci Alan: Compopen, Paroject If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Dental Hacks Nation.

Dr. John Graeber and Dr. Artie Volker join the Dental Hacks to talk about the history and practice of "Minimally Invasive Dentistry." Dr. Graeber has spent a career teaching many minimally invasive modalities and we discuss them in depth! John's new textbook (with a chapter by Artie) is called "Microinvasive Dentistry: Clinical Strategies and Tools" Why write a textbook? What are the pitfalls of the dental handpiece? How does earlier diagnosis help us avoid the dental handpiece? Air abrasion since 1993 What do dentists misunderstand about "minimally invasive dentistry?" Objective diagnosis vs. subjective diagnosis John is a fan of the Carivu and the Ortek-ECD Having a specific room for diagnosis Air abrasion NEEDS water! Air embolisms...good times! Lasers to differentiate your practice from others! The Academy of Laser Dentistry Find a group of "real colleagues" The American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry Why get the book? Some links from the show: World War II in Colour Dental Hacks Deals!: Dental Hacks Medit i500 deal! (starting at $17k + lab credit, rebate gets bigger the more our group takes advantage!) Email us at info@dentalhacks.com and use "Medit" in the subject line or tab Jason on Facebook or text "Medit" to (804) 885-2233! Enova Illumination has an amazing Dental Hacks discount on loupes and lights. Get that information at:  https://form.jotform.com/210247991392056 Be sure to get your Dental Hacks pricing at Crazy Dental by using coupon code: DHN10 The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Our friends at Zirc want to know...are you stressed from mess? How is your organization at the office? Keeping materials straight and in the right place is a challenge for all of us. Zirc has some amazing solutions and they want to give you a free gift while having a little fun! The first 30 offices that post a photo of your disorganized materials using the hashtag #StressedFromMess in the Dental Hacks Nation will get a free Complete Tub Kit from Zirc! You even get to pick from their amazing 16 colors! This will help you start on your organization journey and you'll be able to have an organizational conversation with one of the clinical efficiency experts at Zirc! Dental Hacks Nation...let's see your mess! Head over to the Dental Hacks Nation Facebook group and show us your materials mayhem using the hashtag #StressedFromMess and get your free Complete Tub Kit! New Product Alert! Smart Scheduling by YAPI is here to help you keep your appointment books full and gain more new patients with online booking that is in YOUR control. Easily configure your accepted insurances, operatory/provider availability, and scheduling rules to match your unique workflows. Only qualified new patients can book their visit when they confirm their insurance - they can even take a photo from their phone! Your existing patients will have the easiest way to book their next cleaning when Smart Scheduling includes a link via text or email reminders automatically sent by YAPI. Dentrix users get first dibs on Smart Scheduling, but it will soon be available for Open Dental and Eaglesoft as well. Learn more at https://yapiapp.com/online-scheduling You remember in dental school in your biomaterials class. It was the chapter after amalgam. They talked about composites. Different types of composites have different characteristics depending on particle size, etc. Ohhh...that's right. It seems like all you ever hear about composites is "universal." But let's be honest, one size does NOT fit all! If you do any anterior composite work, you really need a microfill! Microfilled composites like Cosmedent's Renamel microfill handle really nicely, have gorgeous translucency and polish like a dream. If it's been awhile since you've used microfill, you owe it to yourself to give it a try again! Our friend and mentor Buddy Mopper was right! Don't dumb down composites to just one type! Get yourself a microfill and see what a difference it makes. It comes in syringes AND compules and I guarantee you'll find a bunch of great uses for it! Check it out at dentalhacks.com/microfill! Go Hack Yourself Jason: My Heritage app (Android) Alan: ohsnap! pop socket thingy If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Dental Hacks Nation.

Dr. Jeni Perna joins the Dental Hacks to talk about purchasing a practice! Actually, she discusses that she was trying to buy a practice and it fell through! Jeni and Instagram (yogi_dentist)...a great follow! Content creators and consistency!  Instagram feed = perfect square (pearl!) Instagram feed/posts vs. stories "Get on stories and show your face" Jeni's practice acquisition story Are you "just an associate?" Finding a practice before they hit brokerage sites! Buying an existing practice means that you'll always have compromises from the existing owner. Practice purchase vs. startup Cold calls? What would Jeni have done differently? Flat fee attorneys/CPAs vs hourly...understand the investment that you'll make Jeni on practice brokers Make sure you have YOUR team as a buyer The Letter of Intent (LOI) Talk to LOTS of banks! Create a relationship, but don't have complete loyalty! Some links from the show: 3M Relyx Universal Resin Cement Cosmecore Get Jeni's Manuals! Scott McDonald episodes Canva.com Memorie Valentine's Tik Tok (her most watched Tik Tok) Dental Hacks Deals!: Dental Hacks Medit i500 deal! (starting at $17k + lab credit, rebate gets bigger the more our group takes advantage!) Email us at info@dentalhacks.com and use "Medit" in the subject line or tab Jason on Facebook or text "Medit" to (804) 885-2233! Enova Illumination has an amazing Dental Hacks discount on loupes and lights. Get that information at:  https://form.jotform.com/210247991392056 Be sure to get your Dental Hacks pricing at Crazy Dental by using coupon code: DHN10 The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  New Product Alert! Smart Scheduling by YAPI is here to help you keep your appointment books full and gain more new patients with online booking that is in YOUR control. Easily configure your accepted insurances, operatory/provider availability, and scheduling rules to match your unique workflows. Only qualified new patients can book their visit when they confirm their insurance - they can even take a photo from their phone! Your existing patients will have the easiest way to book their next cleaning when Smart Scheduling includes a link via text or email reminders automatically sent by YAPI. Dentrix users get first dibs on Smart Scheduling, but it will soon be available for Open Dental and Eaglesoft as well. Learn more at https://yapiapp.com/online-scheduling Cosmecore from Cosmedent is a versatile, dual cured core material that handles great, comes in 3 great shades and won’t gouge when you prep it! You can even fill a matrix with it and NOT LIGHT CURE it and it will set hard as a rock! It comes in two handy sizes (50g and 8g syringes) and once you start using it, it will become your “go to” for ideal tooth preps! Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/cosmecore! Go Hack Yourself Jason: Healthy Start Alan: Jocko Tea If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Dental Hacks Nation.

The Dental Hacks are joined by Dr. Gregg Kinzer to discuss continuing education now that we've had a year or so of the pandemic. Some topics we covered: Spear started back to live CE in September 2020 Why workshops are perfect in person CE...layered learning What does Spear look like post-pandemic? (spoiler...there are "Popemobile" style plexiglass lab benches!) The pandemic has given workshop attendees WAY more face time with Gregg and the rest of the instructors! Some pandemic changes are going to stay! Virtual seminars are likely going to stay. Spear will be virtual and IRL. Study clubs will change as well...there will be live virtual study club events! Spear Practice Solutions have a lot of statistics about "post shutdown" opening. Most practices opened strong! Also people feel safe at the dental office! What does the diagnosis/treatment planning workflow look like in Gregg's office? Co-discovery and take photos! How does Gregg handle the "difficult patient?" (poor opening, giant tongue, etc) Who are the people that Gregg automatically won't treat? (spoiler: follow your gut!) Gregg proposes a dental version of "The Truman Show." Tips on taking more photos Gregg on social media peer pressure Some links from the show: Spear Aesthetics Spear Practice Solutions Spear Education Dental Hacks Deals!: Dental Hacks Medit i500 deal! (starting at $17k + lab credit, rebate gets bigger the more our group takes advantage!) Email us at info@dentalhacks.com and use "Medit" in the subject line or tab Jason on Facebook or text "Medit" to (804) 885-2233! Enova Illumination has an amazing Dental Hacks discount on loupes and lights. Get that information at:  https://form.jotform.com/210247991392056 Be sure to get your Dental Hacks pricing at Crazy Dental by using coupon code: DHN10 The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Continuing Education in the time of pandemic has gotten interesting. And Cosmedent is here for it! They’ve figured out a way to bring their amazing, hands on courses and instructors to you...but now done remotely! For instance, Dr. Corky Willhite will be giving his incomparable “Ultimate Esthetics with Composite: The Basics of Layering to Advanced Techniques” course on February 25-26th! Every patient can't afford porcelain, and most people don't want their teeth "drilled down." Composite provides fully functional restorations whether it's a Class IV, diastema closure, shade change, adding length, or many other changes. How does it work? The course goes from 9am-1pm on Thursday and Friday. You can purchase just the course or (and this is what you should do) you can get the course AND all of the course materials that Corky will be using in the hand on exercises! You’ll even have a chance for one on one interaction with Corky to make sure you’re really getting it. If you’re looking to up your composite esthetics game there is no one better to learn from than Dr. Corky Willhite! And Cosmedent’s virtual live courses are a game changer. Be sure to check it out at dentalhacks.com/ultimateesthetics! Our friends at YAPI have a bundle that they call “the Works” that can do a LOT of stuff! Intraoffice communication, paperless forms, patient reminders, managing reviews...it really is THE WORKS! It will replace multiple services you’re already paying for and it will likely cost you less!  And even bigger news! YAPI is having an AMAZING Black Friday sale staring November 27th going all the way through cyber week! You’ll save $25/month on “The Works” package for an entire year AND they’ll waive the set up fees! This is a deal that should not be missed...starting on Friday, November 27th going all the way through Cyber week! Check out all that YAPI can do for you at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. It’s a funny name, but it’s serious software! Go Hack Yourself Jason: PRF edu Alan: Icy Hot Lidocaine Patch If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Dental Hacks Nation.

Dr. Deren Flesher joins the Dental Hacks to talk about mobile dentistry as well as using your position in dentistry to create opportunities outside of the dental office! Deren has a thriving startup practice but has always wanted to own and run businesses besides dentistry. Our conversation is wide ranging about all kinds of businesses! Some topics we discussed are: Deren owns some Papa John's Pizza joints! What does Deren consider "the dental bubble?" What kind of dentists should look for opportunities outside dentistry? How did Deren get into mobile dentistry? How has he incorporated it into his schedule and how is it different than his startup? Deren enters the cannabis industry! He's involved with a grow operation as well as supply chain/delivery! How does someone find opportunities "outside the bubble?" Dentistry is the fuel to Deren's business expansion! How does Deren build connections with potential business partners? How does he "cross pollenate" business ideas? Does Deren aspire to be "nonclinical?" Some links from the show: Interested in Senior Dental Care (the company Deren works with)? Email Deren at derenflesherdds@gmail.com. Dryshield (he won't work without it!) Septodont Paroject Dental Hacks Deals!: Dental Hacks Medit i500 deal! (starting at $17k + lab credit, rebate gets bigger the more our group takes advantage!) Email us at info@dentalhacks.com and use "Medit" in the subject line or tab Jason on Facebook or text "Medit" to (804) 885-2233! Enova Illumination has an amazing Dental Hacks discount on loupes and lights. Get that information at:  https://form.jotform.com/210247991392056 Be sure to get your Dental Hacks pricing at Crazy Dental by using coupon code: DHN10 The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Continuing Education in the time of pandemic has gotten interesting. And Cosmedent is here for it! They’ve figured out a way to bring their amazing, hands on courses and instructors to you...but now done remotely! For instance, Dr. Corky Willhite will be giving his incomparable “Ultimate Esthetics with Composite: The Basics of Layering to Advanced Techniques” course on February 25-26th! Every patient can't afford porcelain, and most people don't want their teeth "drilled down." Composite provides fully functional restorations whether it's a Class IV, diastema closure, shade change, adding length, or many other changes. How does it work? The course goes from 9am-1pm on Thursday and Friday. You can purchase just the course or (and this is what you should do) you can get the course AND all of the course materials that Corky will be using in the hand on exercises! You’ll even have a chance for one on one interaction with Corky to make sure you’re really getting it. If you’re looking to up your composite esthetics game there is no one better to learn from than Dr. Corky Willhite! And Cosmedent’s virtual live courses are a game changer. Be sure to check it out at dentalhacks.com/ultimateesthetics! Our friends at YAPI have a bundle that they call “the Works” that can do a LOT of stuff! Intraoffice communication, paperless forms, patient reminders, managing reviews...it really is THE WORKS! It will replace multiple services you’re already paying for and it will likely cost you less!  And even bigger news! YAPI is having an AMAZING Black Friday sale staring November 27th going all the way through cyber week! You’ll save $25/month on “The Works” package for an entire year AND they’ll waive the set up fees! This is a deal that should not be missed...starting on Friday, November 27th going all the way through Cyber week! Check out all that YAPI can do for you at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. It’s a funny name, but it’s serious software! Go Hack Yourself Jason: compounded topical anesthetic gel Alan: Fender wedge, Garrison Compositight Fusion 3D Interproximal Wedges If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Dental Hacks Nation.

The Dental Hacks return for 2021 with a powerhouse interview featuring Dr. Rob Ritter! Some highlights: Spear Summit 2019 highlights (where Jason and Alan met Rob in person for the first time) It's been just about a year since we've had major dental meetings...Rob's thoughts on how CE comes back and what changes Hot vaccine talk Rob discusses "The Protocol," a new small group comprehensive restorative "in office" course by Ritter and Ramsey! (two dates already sold out!) (Next date is November 5-6th, 2021) Dental partnerships...can they work? Office renovations...built to give a great course! Social media pros and cons...enjoy the journey, there is no destination The Peaceful Practice Podcast The lecturing lifestyle isn't as glamorous as it's cracked up to be Rob designed "The Protocol" to keep him off the road. Bring people that want to learn to him! Jedis vs. Sith Lords Which "x" should I buy? It depends on what you're going to do with it. Be honest about what you're using it for. Rob and Al talk about microscopes Rob on sticking to your vision Building a brand even in dental school Some links from the show: Rob Ritter's Instagram The Protocol (Rob/Chris's new in office course!) Dental Hacks Listeners group Hacking Dentistry with JLips Dental Hacks Deals!: Dental Hacks Medit i500 deal! (starting at $17k + lab credit, rebate gets bigger the more our group takes advantage!) Email us at info@dentalhacks.com and use "Medit" in the subject line or tab Jason on Facebook. Enova Illumination has an amazing Dental Hacks discount on loupes and lights. Get that information at:  https://form.jotform.com/210247991392056 Be sure to get your Dental Hacks pricing at Crazy Dental by using coupon code: DHN10 The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Our friends at YAPI have a bundle that they call “the Works” that can do a LOT of stuff! Intraoffice communication, paperless forms, patient reminders, managing reviews...it really is THE WORKS! It will replace multiple services you’re already paying for and it will likely cost you less!  And even bigger news! YAPI is having an AMAZING Black Friday sale staring November 27th going all the way through cyber week! You’ll save $25/month on “The Works” package for an entire year AND they’ll waive the set up fees! This is a deal that should not be missed...starting on Friday, November 27th going all the way through Cyber week! Check out all that YAPI can do for you at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. It’s a funny name, but it’s serious software! Continuing Education in the time of pandemic has gotten interesting. And Cosmedent is here for it! They’ve figured out a way to bring their amazing, hands on courses and instructors to you...but now done remotely! For instance, Dr. Corky Willhite will be giving his incomparable “Ultimate Esthetics with Composite: The Basics of Layering to Advanced Techniques” course on February 25-26th! Every patient can't afford porcelain, and most people don't want their teeth "drilled down." Composite provides fully functional restorations whether it's a Class IV, diastema closure, shade change, adding length, or many other changes. How does it work? The course goes from 9am-1pm on Thursday and Friday. You can purchase just the course or (and this is what you should do) you can get the course AND all of the course materials that Corky will be using in the hand on exercises! You’ll even have a chance for one on one interaction with Corky to make sure you’re really getting it. If you’re looking to up your composite esthetics game there is no one better to learn from than Dr. Corky Willhite! And Cosmedent’s virtual live courses are a game changer. Be sure to check it out at dentalhacks.com/ultimateesthetics! Go Hack Yourself Jason: Phonetag Alan: Night Stalker on Netflix If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Dental Hacks Nation.

This encore edition features the triumphant return of fan favorite, Dr. Jamison Spencer! Last episode we conquered sleep dentistry and airway problems. In today's episode, we tackle TMD! A few high questions answered by Jamison in episode 205: Should general dentists be treating TMD? TMD patients are all NUTS (not understanding their symptoms). Most dentists are, too. Why do we have so little evidence for the validity of TMD treatments? What is the most common joint problem and simple treatment options What's the difference between capsulitis and trismus and when should we treat it? When should we give injections outside of the "deep dark hole" that we're used to? Links from the show: Our “Clinical Hack of the Week” features Dr. Zach Meiners and his undying love for teflon tape! If you have a clinical hack that you want to share, record yourself and email it to info@dentalhacks.com and we’ll feature you on the show!                 The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has almost 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! You know what a good provisional restoration smells like? Vanilla. It smells like vanilla. No, seriously. Mirror Image is really good provisional crown material. Fast setting, easy trimming, great colors and holds a great polish. AND...when you trim it, Mirror Image smells like vanilla! We're huge fans. But now...you can get it in 10ml syringes! No longer are you limited to the big impression gun sizes! So go check out Mirror Image provisional material in 50ml cartridges or 10ml syringes at dentalhacks.com/mirrorimage.  YAPI basically invented going paperless in the dental industry. They have solutions for entering forms, texting with patients and even “intra office chat.” YAPI can help you easily let your patients know when you’re ready to seat them and they’ll breeze directly into the operatory! This December, YAPI is giving the Dental Hacks Nation a special deal! They’ll waive their set up fees for anyone who mentions the Dental Hacks...a $399 value! It’s time to make curbside check in as well as all the other amazing paperless options YAPI has to offer! Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/YAPI and drop our name for no set up fees!   Go Hack Yourself: Jason: Aqualizer Alan: Offtime app If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation  

Santa and the Grinch are back! HAH! Guess who's the Grinch! Thanks Lord we're on holiday and my boss can't call me into her office to tell me how much I can't put this on the internet. Too late sis! JKJKJK, all love! All that I say comes from a place of pure love and affection so for real, we're all friends and I never get yelled at (she's forcing me to write this tho...........)Anyways, I'm scheduling thousands of eps so that y'all wine freaks have some material to go through during this unusual Xmas. So Im sorry if I make no sense at all while writing this copy, but this podcast aint going to schedule itself and this is the only place where I feel like I can be myself openly and complain about life lmaoooo kinda like a diary hahahhahahahhahha! See ya soon Scienzerz!

Dr. August De Oliveira joins Jason and Alan to talk about dental implants, writing books, DentalTown, 3D printing, CEREC, Facebook groups and claiming to invent stuff that was really just you buying a 3D printer on Amazon. August is one of our favorite guests and we finally got him for a full, hilarious hour! From our early days together on DentalTown to August's conquering of the stage at Voices of Dentistry, this wide ranging interview has something for EVERYONE! Some links from the show: August's CEREC Du Jour thread on DentalTown Al's Dental Haiku thread CAD-Ray and the Medit i500 Al's crown work flow stuff: Template and Temptray, Traxodent August's latest course August's books: Guided Implantology Made Easy, Implants Made Easy, Dental 3D Printing Made Easy Dentiq Software The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! YAPI basically invented going paperless in the dental industry. They have solutions for entering forms, texting with patients and even “intra office chat.” YAPI can help you easily let your patients know when you’re ready to seat them and they’ll breeze directly into the operatory! This December, YAPI is giving the Dental Hacks Nation a special deal! They’ll waive their set up fees for anyone who mentions the Dental Hacks...a $399 value! It’s time to make curbside check in as well as all the other amazing paperless options YAPI has to offer! Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/YAPI and drop our name for no set up fees! You know what a good provisional restoration smells like? Vanilla. It smells like vanilla. No, seriously. Mirror Image is really good provisional crown material. Fast setting, easy trimming, great colors and holds a great polish. AND...when you trim it, Mirror Image smells like vanilla! We're huge fans. But now...you can get it in 10ml syringes! No longer are you limited to the big impression gun sizes! So go check out Mirror Image provisional material in 50ml cartridges or 10ml syringes at dentalhacks.com/mirrorimage.  Go Hack Yourself Alan: Dropbox Desktop app If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.  

The Brain Trust has always been a huge part of the Dental Hacks podcast. We love to feature a round table of regular, "wet fingered' (ew) dentists talking about stuff that all dentists deal with. Episode 215 features three of our original panelists who have been featured over the years. We cover a lot of ground here, including: Are baseball analogies good for gauging where you are in your dental career? Would Rich recommend buying and merging a practice? How is Frank screening kids and adults for airway? (note: it's probably not what you think!) How has coaching affected their careers? What technology has been worthwhile? For patient outcomes or simply marketing? Why are dentists training so much in high dollar procedures vs. the fundamentals? Are long haul truckers good patients? Is it truck o'clock? The OG's links: The Chicago Study Club Links from the show: Our "clinical hack of the week" features some new functionality for Invisalign. Jason discusses Invisalign's relatively new options for treating class II occlusion using a variant of the twin block. Go check out our featured "Spear Online Education video of the week, "Endodontic Diagnosis with Dr. Lou Berman!" Curbside check in is literally the most 2020 thing ever. Many offices don’t even have waiting rooms any more! Do you want to know the absolute easiest way to do curbside check in at your office? That’s right...you guessed it. Our friends at YAPI make curbside check in a breeze!  YAPI basically invented going paperless in the dental industry. They have solutions for entering forms, texting with patients and even “intra office chat.” YAPI can help you easily let your patients know when you’re ready to seat them and they’ll breeze directly into the operatory! This December, YAPI is giving the Dental Hacks Nation a special deal! They’ll waive their set up fees for anyone who mentions the Dental Hacks...a $399 value! It’s time to make curbside check in as well as all the other amazing paperless options YAPI has to offer! Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/YAPI and drop our name for no set up fees! Our friends at Cosmedent have something really great going on in December! It’s called the “Cosmetic Dentistry Winter Webinar Series” and it’s absolutely free! It’s three days and it features 3 separate Cosmedent all star presenters! On Thursday December 17th you can hear from Dr. Rhodri Thomas talking about restoring peg laterals. On Friday December 18th you can hear from the amazing Javier Quiros discussing “full mouth reconstruction with composite resin!” On Monday, December 21st you’ll hear from Dr. Marshall Hanson with “An Invitation to Think Differently About Direct Composite Resin!” Each course is an hour from noon until 1pm central standard time! Cosmedent’s webinars are always top notch and these three guys are all amazing presenters! Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/winterwebinar and up your cosmetic dentistry game!  The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! Go Hack Yourself: Jason: Bisco Theracem Alan: SanDisk Extreme Portable SSD If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.  

Today we feature a conversation with Dr. Kristine Aadland! Kristine is a dentist and practice owner from Vancouver, WA! Kristine teaches chairside cosmetic and restorative dentistry with CEREC and she focuses on giving back! In this interesting conversation we discuss: You cannot pump your own gas in Oregon. Also, Al was a boards patient in Portland, OR in 1997. Kris always knew she wanted to do a startup practice...and she did! For people who have done both startup and existing practice purchase...which would they prefer? Kristine's CEREC journey (she started with Red Cam!) Kris's workflow (it's impressive!) What is the most baller move a CEREC dentist can do with their patient? What would Kris tell someone who is on the fence with in office milling? Same day smile design/anteriors! How did Kris start speaking? Kris has been giving back to patients in need doing HANDS ON COURSES! Dr. Justin Moody joined us during the interview to talk about the changes at Implant Pathway in Arizona! Moody is using 3Disc intraoral scanners at the Implant Pathway! Kris is giving an amazing course where they will treatment plan and execute chairside anterior rehabs on women who have suffered through domestic violence! (February 25-27, 2021) Some links from the show: Porn for Your Practice: Make Yourself Miserable with Social Media Implant Pathway Kris's course at Implant Pathway: Same Day Smile Design The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Our friends at Cosmedent have something really great going on in December! It’s called the “Cosmetic Dentistry Winter Webinar Series” and it’s absolutely free! It’s three days and it features 3 separate Cosmedent all star presenters! On Thursday December 17th you can hear from Dr. Rhodri Thomas talking about restoring peg laterals. On Friday December 18th you can hear from the amazing Javier Quiros discussing “full mouth reconstruction with composite resin!” On Monday, December 21st you’ll hear from Dr. Marshall Hanson with “An Invitation to Think Differently About Direct Composite Resin!” Each course is an hour from noon until 1pm central standard time! Cosmedent’s webinars are always top notch and these three guys are all amazing presenters! Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/winterwebinar and up your cosmetic dentistry game!  Our friends at YAPI have a bundle that they call “the Works” that can do a LOT of stuff! Intraoffice communication, paperless forms, patient reminders, managing reviews...it really is THE WORKS! It will replace multiple services you’re already paying for and it will likely cost you less!  And even bigger news! YAPI is having an AMAZING Black Friday sale staring November 27th going all the way through cyber week! You’ll save $25/month on “The Works” package for an entire year AND they’ll waive the set up fees! This is a deal that should not be missed...starting on Friday, November 27th going all the way through Cyber week! Check out all that YAPI can do for you at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. It’s a funny name, but it’s serious software! Go Hack Yourself Jason: BrightLocal Alan: Emily Oster on the Pandemic (EconTalk podcast) If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Jason and Alan had the honor of talking with Dr. Frank Spear of Spear Education! This was their first conversation with him since the COVID outbreak and the conversation focused a lot on changes in the landscape of dentistry and dental education! How has COVID affected dentistry and dental practices? Some dental practices have done BETTER in 2020! What are the things that these practices have in common? Messaging (stay in touch, let them know you're available!) Proactive messaging about safety "We're concerned about your dental health." Efficiency ("if you're coming in, let's get it done!") "The Big Dip" (hygiene scheduling) The history of dental infection control...why is dentistry ahead of this curve? How is "on campus" going at Spear Education? "Live Virtual" seminars...better than in person? Faculty club round tables...the best value at Spear! The new occlusion curriculum on Spear Online! New research in occlusion...now incorporated into the Spear curriculum! Cause and effect is often not as simple as we'd like What cases does Frank wish he could have a time machine to re-treat (spoiler: it's about airway and orofacial pain) What does Frank think about Orofacial Pain becoming a specialty? How can a dentist avoid burnout in dentistry? (spoiler: eliminate what you don't enjoy) Some links from the show: Dr. Frank Spear on the Stories Dentists Tell Each Other (DHP266) Go check out the Black Friday deals that our friends are putting on at dentalhacks.com/blackfriday! The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! We’ve talked a LOT about the Mr. Thirsty One Step. You probably know that it’s the only combination bite block and suction solution that is 100% single use. You don’t need any special hardware to use Mr. Thirsty One Step. It plugs directly into your high volume suction and you’re good to go! You also probably know that it’s easy to alter to fit any patient. You get hands-free retraction of the cheek and tongue and a SUPER dry field all in one single use package! What you might not know is how well it reduces spatter and aerosols! In fact, a recent study performed by the Dental Advisor indicated that Mr. Thirsty One Step performs more like high volume suction in the hands of a skilled assistant than any other device! If you haven’t tried Mr. Thirsty One Step, we think it’s time you should! Go get yourself a trial kit at dentalhacks.com/mrthirstytrial and see if it doesn’t make your life a lot easier!  Our friends at YAPI have a bundle that they call “the Works” that can do a LOT of stuff! Intraoffice communication, paperless forms, patient reminders, managing reviews...it really is THE WORKS! It will replace multiple services you’re already paying for and it will likely cost you less!  And even bigger news! YAPI is having an AMAZING Black Friday sale staring November 27th going all the way through cyber week! You’ll save $25/month on “The Works” package for an entire year AND they’ll waive the set up fees! This is a deal that should not be missed...starting on Friday, November 27th going all the way through Cyber week! Check out all that YAPI can do for you at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. It’s a funny name, but it’s serious software! Go Hack Yourself Jason: Teledoc Alan: Public Rec "all day, every day" pants If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Jason and Alan are joined by the incomparable Dr. Gina Dorfman and Dr. Melissa Zettler for a rousing round of "what would you do?" We asked the Dental Hacks Nation to come up with interesting and challenging scenarios for this Brain Trust to kick around and we think you'll like what we've come up with! We discussed: How to refer, relationships with specialists and how owner dentists need to explain how they want this done to those associates that they're working with What do you do with people that ask about expensive treatments that you know from history and their monetary situation that they have absolutely zero intention of following through with? What do you do when a medical doctor tells you to stay in your lane when you want a kid assessed for apnea? What would you do if a hygiene patient from earlier in the day called the office and wanted to talk to the doctor. When the doc comes to the phone the patient explains that they didn't feel that the hygienist was using proper COVID protocols/PPE? You’ve diagnosed a cavity clinically and radiographically on the distal of #3. Treatment planned a DOL filling to close the contact which was packing food. As you prepare, you realize that the decay goes quite gingival and placing a direct restorative is going to be a mess. Patient is expecting a filling. What do you do? What do you do when you find out a team member is sleeping with a patient? When you identify that a child is a victim of abuse, how do you proceed? Some links from the show: The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! Our friends at YAPI have a bundle that they call “the Works” that can do a LOT of stuff! Intraoffice communication, paperless forms, patient reminders, managing reviews...it really is THE WORKS! It will replace multiple services you’re already paying for and it will likely cost you less!  And even bigger news! YAPI is having an AMAZING Black Friday sale staring November 27th going all the way through cyber week! You’ll save $25/month on “The Works” package for an entire year AND they’ll waive the set up fees! This is a deal that should not be missed...starting on Friday, November 27th going all the way through Cyber week! Check out all that YAPI can do for you at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. It’s a funny name, but it’s serious software! We’ve talked a LOT about the Mr. Thirsty One Step. You probably know that it’s the only combination bite block and suction solution that is 100% single use. You don’t need any special hardware to use Mr. Thirsty One Step. It plugs directly into your high volume suction and you’re good to go! You also probably know that it’s easy to alter to fit any patient. You get hands-free retraction of the cheek and tongue and a SUPER dry field all in one single use package! What you might not know is how well it reduces spatter and aerosols! In fact, a recent study performed by the Dental Advisor indicated that Mr. Thirsty One Step performs more like high volume suction in the hands of a skilled assistant than any other device! If you haven’t tried Mr. Thirsty One Step, we think it’s time you should! Go get yourself a trial kit at dentalhacks.com/mrthirstytrial and see if it doesn’t make your life a lot easier!  Go Hack Yourself Jason: 3D Dentists mild sedation course Gina: Evernote Melissa: Neck Fix  Alan: Purple 2 Mattress If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Dr. Artie Volker joins the Dental Hacks again, this time to discuss digital workflow and the lab industry! Artie has actually built a lab in his office and has a unique perspective on how dental workflows will change in the future! Why did Artie build a commercial lab in his office? How many people do you need for a dental lab? Can you have a dental lab without stone models? Why does milling zirconia in office make so much financial sense? When you do your own lab work, what do you learn about your preparations? make sure you have occlusal clearance recontour adjacent teeth! Al says have very fine finishing burs for adjusting zirconia Artie is stacking porcelain (NERDS!) Artie is using for Lab Pronto orthodontic aligners! How do labs stay profitable moving forward? Working DIRECTLY with a lab tech (e.g.: in the operatory) How to start in digital dentistry according to Artie! Some links from the show: Artie's "Live Virtual" composite course coming up December 3-4! 3D Dentists Oral Sedation for Adults and ACLS American Academy of Clear Aligners The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! You’ve heard us talk about the Mr. Thirsty One step a bunch lately. You know that it evacuates more than any other bite block suction solution out there. You know that it’s super easy to adjust to fit any patient. You know that it’s comfortable and easy to place. And you know that it’s the only bite block and suction solution that’s COMPLETELY disposable. No special hardware...just plug it in to your high volume suction and you’ve got hands free isolation. Our friends at Zirc are offering their BEST DEAL EVER on Mr. Thirsty one step! For one day only, Thursday November 19th (that’s next Thursday if you’re listening to the episode right after it dropped!), you can buy one 25 pack of Mr. Thirsty One Step and get one free! That’s right...buy one, get one! But it’s a flash sale that’s only available on November 19th! Head over to www.dentalhacks.com/flashsale on Thursday, November 19th, order your Mr. Thirsty 25 packs and use coupon code "DHBOGO" and you’ll get a buy one, get one deal on the website!  Our friends at YAPI have a bundle that they call “the Works” that can do a LOT of stuff! Intraoffice communication, paperless forms, patient reminders, managing reviews...it really is THE WORKS! It will replace multiple services you’re already paying for and it will likely cost you less!  And even bigger news! YAPI is having an AMAZING Black Friday sale staring November 27th going all the way through cyber week! You’ll save $25/month on “The Works” package for an entire year AND they’ll waive the set up fees! This is a deal that should not be missed...starting on Friday, November 27th going all the way through Cyber week! Check out all that YAPI can do for you at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. It’s a funny name, but it’s serious software! Go Hack Yourself Jason: Paramount Dental Lab Alan: 38 Smiles Dental Lab If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Jason and Alan are joined by the one and only Dr. Dennis Hartlieb! We've known Dennis for a long time as a teacher at Cosmedent and more recently as the creator of Dental Online Training! Dennis is pushing the limits of hands clinical education and his vision really hits a sweet spot in the COVID era! But not only is he a really great educator, he practices clinically 4 days a week! We had a really great and wide ranging conversation with Dennis as a our co-host! Some of the topics we covered: What do you do when you get behind on the schedule? How do you handle it when you get in the weeds? How has CE changed in the COVID era? Dental Online Training (www.dothandson.com): how it started, what is it, how it works Learning at your own speed/on your own time When is minimally invasive dentistry an excellent choice and when do we need to be more aggressive? Creating great relationships with a lab (Dennis primarily uses Synergy Ceramics) Dentistry on social media (the good, the bad and the ugly)  As an educator, what do most restoratives get "wrong" most often? (spoiler: the answer might surprise you!)  Some links from the show: Textbook of Oral Anatomy, Physiology, Histology and Tooth Morphology Dental Online Training The Dental Hacks podcast listener survey The Dental Hacks Instagram acct (it's Jason making kick ass memes) The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! When we hear "YAPI," we think "paperless." And we're not wrong. But YAPI is so much more than just amazing streamlining of data entry into your PMS. It's patient communication, team communication, reviews and so much more. You should see what YAPI can do for you buy downloading an informative ebook called "Blasting Your Dental Practice from the Past to the Future!" Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/ebook! Mr. Thirsty One step is the only bite block isolation/evacuation unit on the market that plugs directly into your HVE! No special hardware and no chance for cross contamination! It effectively reduces aerosols, creates a SUPER dry field and is really easily adjusted for patient comfort! Our friends at Zirc are giving members of the Dental Hacks Nation a special buy two 25 packs and get one 25 pack free! Use promo code October21 through October! Go check it out at https://bit.ly/3lRT0Ue! Go Hack Yourself Jason: Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee Dennis: How I Built This podcast Alan: Oats Overnight  If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Jason and Alan join guest host Danny Vezmar for a rollicking conversation about the dental industry! Danny is the Director of Marketing, Restorative, Preventive and Lab at Dentsply Sirona. As a "third generation" dental industry person he's got a very unique take on the dental industry and our conversation was wide ranging! What does a day in the life of Dentsply Sirona's "Director of Marketing, Restorative, Preventive and Lab" look like and how can we streamline that title? Hot Voices of Dentistry talk Danny's family has been in the dental industry for a LONG time. Has Danny ever experienced a "Crystal Pepsi" product roll out? Why did IRM come in different colors? Should oral surgeons do TV commercials? How is COVID affecting Dentsply Sirona? PureVac HVE for aerosols Dentsply Sirona's One DS™ 2.0+ Rewards Program and Clinical Accelerator (Pacman vs. Tupperware) Jason and Alan are WaveOne Gold fan boys (What's the WaveOne situation?) Aquasil Ultra "Cordless" What's happening with CEREC? What's the deal with Surefil One? (self adhesive, dual cured composite hybrid!) Will we ever have dental meetings again? What happened with DS World? the Dentsply Sirona Academy in Charlotte, NC. Some links from the show: The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! When we hear "YAPI," we think "paperless." And we're not wrong. But YAPI is so much more than just amazing streamlining of data entry into your PMS. It's patient communication, team communication, reviews and so much more. You should see what YAPI can do for you buy downloading an informative ebook called "Blasting Your Dental Practice from the Past to the Future!" Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/ebook! Mr. Thirsty One step is the only bite block isolation/evacuation unit on the market that plugs directly into your HVE! No special hardware and no chance for cross contamination! It effectively reduces aerosols, creates a SUPER dry field and is really easily adjusted for patient comfort! Our friends at Zirc are giving members of the Dental Hacks Nation a special buy two 25 packs and get one 25 pack free! Use promo code October21 through October! Go check it out at https://bit.ly/3lRT0Ue! Go Hack Yourself Jason: Glidewell Bone Profilers Alan: Xero shoes Danny: Surefil One, dental floss on murder hornets and GUM Softpicks Advanced If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

So Im reviewing the Hard of Soft Podcast and i was  well just Listen the full review is on ,  Youtube and IG,  the visual is dope.Signed ,Yo Favorite FatBoi, #iSaidWhatEyeSaid #LadiesWeLoveYall #SoSerious #SisDoBetter #BroDoBetter #FirestickLife #ItsDeeperThanYouThink #GodsPlan #MenThoughts #MrBlueGivesYouAClue #GoodAdvice #TrueStory #Truth #Facts #MenWannaBeAppreciated2 #WorkChronicles #NotAllHerosWearCapes #BagChasin #HustleHard #loyalty #RealFriendsPodcast #RunForrestRun #WhyIsYoDickHard  #BlackPrivilege  #Love #look@hisFace #RealBlackLivesDoMatter #BlackMenDontCheat #BlackGirlMagic #BigGuysLoveBetter Like, Life, Love, Learn, call of duty , warzone , Gaming, Product tester, --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/dennis-williams/support

Today's episode features a talk with our friend Jay Glazer of Crazy Dental. Jason and Alan sat down with Jay at Voices of Dentistry 2020. It was an informal kind of talk about the dental industry and how dentists buy supplies. Some topics we discussed are: What is "grey market?" Why do companies have catalog prices? How Crazy Dental works (and it's beginnings as "Profit Finder") Is Jay worried about Amazon as a dental supplier? How does Crazy Dental keep the costs down? How has podcasting worked to help grow Crazy Dental? Some links from the show: Crazy Dental (use code DHN10 for 10% off of non-PPE purchases at Crazy Dental!) Implant Pathway The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! When we hear "YAPI," we think "paperless." And we're not wrong. But YAPI is so much more than just amazing streamlining of data entry into your PMS. It's patient communication, team communication, reviews and so much more. You should see what YAPI can do for you buy downloading an informative ebook called "Blasting Your Dental Practive from the Past to the Future!" Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/ebook! Mr. Thirsty One step is the only bite block isolation/evacuation unit on the market that plugs directly into your HVE! No special hardware and no chance for cross contamination! It effectively reduces aerosols, creates a SUPER dry field and is really easily adjusted for patient comfort! Our friends at Zirc are giving members of the Dental Hacks Nation a special buy two 25 packs and get one 25 pack free! Use promo code October21 through October! Go check it out at https://bit.ly/3lRT0Ue! Go Hack Yourself Jason: Outlander on Netflix Alan: Cherokee Infinity scrubs/lab coats If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.  

Today's episode is an Encore edition featuring the one and only Dr. Frank Spear from the 2019 Spear Summit in Scottsdale, AZ! Jason and Alan had an hour during the Spear Summit to pick up where we left off from episode 235 and it was very interesting. Frank opened the meeting with a talk that discussed the stories that dentists tell each other about where the profession is going and then presented some data that suggests a lot of these stories aren't exactly true. Some of the things we discussed: Why do insurance companies cover thing so differently from state to state? The beauty of practicing in groups. But not necessarily a DSO. Could someone become Frank Spear in the way that Frank did considering student debt as it is now? How did beautiful temporaries make a difference in Frank's career? Why does Frank feel responsible to help the narrative that dentists tell each other? What's the data the Frank would really like to see? Why is it so impossible to compare dental businesses and income across the country? How can you compare apples to apples? Take home message: things are better than dentists are telling themselves! What is dental school like when your dad is Frank Spear? How could dental school teach things with more context? Are there useful parallels between dental and medical education? How will Frank's teaching schedule be changing in the future? How is the curriculum at Spear Education changing? What kind of "big numbers" has Frank been impressed with lately? (spoiler: it has to do with Spear Practice Solutions) Some links from the show: The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com! Not all "paperless" is the same. You don't have to look any further than your office manager! YAPI can help them avoid repetitive tasks that kill productivity at the front desk! YAPI was the first and the best at paperless.  Why don’t you go check the menu at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. It’s a funny name but serious software! Simply put...Crystal HD mouth mirrors from Zirc are the best mouth mirrors in all of dentistry. All you have to do is put one next to a regular mouth mirror and you’ll see the difference. The Zirc HD mirror is like watching 4k Ultra hd vs. the color tv you had in the basement that had that Archie Bunker clicker remote control. Seriously. That’s how much better they are. You’re thinking, “sure, bro. Whatever you say. It’s a freaking mouth mirror...they’re all the same.” To that I say. Nu uh. Not even close. Zirc is so sure you’ll notice the difference that they’re giving you a special offer. For a 4 pack of Black/Gray soft grip Crystal HD mirrors you order from the Zirc website, they’re going to give it to you for just $20 just because you’re a member of the Dental Hacks Nation! Use coupon code: SHINE4 at check out at dentalhacks.com/mirrors. Go Hack Yourself Jason: WaveOne Gold System Alan: Berman Instruments Premium Line If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.  

Overtreatment. Does it happen in dentistry or is it just a difference of opinion? In today's "ask us anything" episode Jason and Al address the topic of who's treating too much and who's not treating enough? The case of a new dentist diagnosing "10 cavities" in a patient that's experienced no decay with their old dentist The case of a "second opinion" with a giant perio treatment plan and no pockets over 3mm Can the customer service model of "Discount Tire" be applied to dentistry? Which would you rather repeat: dental school or 2020? How much does a missed phone call cost? Does it make sense to work with someone to answer your calls "off site?" Do you diagnose and treatment plan the same at the beginning of the day as the end of the day? Some links from the show: Zirc Crystal HD mirrors Enova headlamps Dental Support Specialties The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  In the new COVID landscape some things are going virtual for the first time. For instance, take the ADA Meeting. It’s now the “ADA Virtual Connect Conference” and it’s coming up October 15th through the 17th. More about that in the Dental Hacks Nation Facebook page! YAPI has been helping dentists go totally digital for a decade now for all kinds of tasks throughout the dental office. You’ve got to take in and organize a ton of patient information and make sure it shows up in the right place at the right time. You’ve got to be able to communicate throughout your office at any time, yet you need to do it discreetly. As much as you wish you didn’t have to...you need to remind your patients of their appointments and try to avoid broken and failed appointments. You have to reactivate the patients that have fallen through the recall cracks. And now more than ever before you have to be able to ask your loyal patients for reviews in the right places like Google, Facebook and Yelp. It’s all important and needs to get done, but it can be a drag on your team. Our friends at YAPI have solutions for all of this and more! And they can do it paperlessly! To be honest, there really isn’t much in your office that YAPI can’t make easier and more efficient. Check out all that YAPI can do for you at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. Simply put...Crystal HD mouth mirrors from Zirc are the best mouth mirrors in all of dentistry. All you have to do is put one next to a regular mouth mirror and you’ll see the difference. The Zirc HD mirror is like watching 4k Ultra hd vs. the color tv you had in the basement that had that Archie Bunker clicker remote control. Seriously. That’s how much better they are. You’re thinking, “sure, bro. Whatever you say. It’s a freaking mouth mirror...they’re all the same.” To that I say. Nu uh. Not even close. Zirc is so sure you’ll notice the difference that they’re giving you a special offer. For a 4 pack of Black/Gray soft grip Crystal HD mirrors you order from the Zirc website, they’re going to give it to you for just $20 just because you’re a member of the Dental Hacks Nation! Use coupon code: SHINE4 at check out at dentalhacks.com/mirrors. If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.    

Dr. Stephanie Zeller joins Alan to talk about the creative process and how we get "stuck" in our lives. Whether it's within a dental office, speaking career or just going to the gym many of us struggle with starting or finishing stuff. Stephanie actually interviewed Alan for her podcast "Dental Outliers" and we thought it was so good that we're featuring it here! They dive deep on the topics of perfectionism, addiction and pushing through resistance in today's episode and we think you'll find it pretty interesting. Some links from the show: Dental Outliers podcast Online Course {Code: DentalOutliers for 10% off} | 8-week online program designed to help you find more flow daily: Flow More Daily by Rewiring your Mind + Body Stephanie's coaching website: Coaching + Workshop Website Ted Talk: Flow – The Secret To Happiness Seth Godin’s AltMBA Seth Godin’s Podcast Jason's "never miss" podcast: "The Joe Rogan Experience" Al's "never miss" podcasts: "Reply All" and "The Fifth Column" Al's terrible impression of John Malkovich's "Teddy KGB" from the movie Rounders: The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Simply put...Crystal HD mouth mirrors from Zirc are the best mouth mirrors in all of dentistry. All you have to do is put one next to a regular mouth mirror and you’ll see the difference. The Zirc HD mirror is like watching 4k Ultra hd vs. the color tv you had in the basement that had that Archie Bunker clicker remote control. Seriously. That’s how much better they are. You’re thinking, “sure, bro. Whatever you say. It’s a freaking mouth mirror...they’re all the same.” To that I say. Nu uh. Not even close. Zirc is so sure you’ll notice the difference that they’re giving you a special offer. For any 12 pack of Crystal HD mirrors you order from the Zirc website, they’re going to knock off $7 just because you’re a member of the Dental Hacks Nation! Use coupon code: dhn7 at check out at dentalhacks.com/mirrors. In the new COVID landscape some things are going virtual for the first time. For instance, take the ADA Meeting. It’s now the “ADA Virtual Connect Conference” and it’s coming up October 15th through the 17th. More about that in the Dental Hacks Nation Facebook page! YAPI has been helping dentists go totally digital for a decade now for all kinds of tasks throughout the dental office. You’ve got to take in and organize a ton of patient information and make sure it shows up in the right place at the right time. You’ve got to be able to communicate throughout your office at any time, yet you need to do it discreetly. As much as you wish you didn’t have to...you need to remind your patients of their appointments and try to avoid broken and failed appointments. You have to reactivate the patients that have fallen through the recall cracks. And now more than ever before you have to be able to ask your loyal patients for reviews in the right places like Google, Facebook and Yelp. It’s all important and needs to get done, but it can be a drag on your team. Our friends at YAPI have solutions for all of this and more! And they can do it paperlessly! To be honest, there really isn’t much in your office that YAPI can’t make easier and more efficient. Check out all that YAPI can do for you at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. Go Hack Yourself: Jason: Rich Dad's Tax Free Wealth Alan: Medit i500 latest software update (Meditlink 2.3) If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.  

Alan talks with the incomparable Irene Iancu about podcasting, her new practice and practicing dentistry in the COVID era! Some highlights from the episode: What is going to happen with dental meetings moving forward? Irene is a hygienist that also owns and runs her own dental office How did COVID affect her buildout and her startup? Would she recommend going on the news to talk about PPE in the COVID era? (spoiler: NO!) How did she put systems in place? How did Irene (a hygienist) interview doctors to work in her practice? Using local Facebook mom groups to market your practice (this is GOLD!) An office where you "eat what you kill." Is it important that patients know who OWNS the office? Irene is going back to school! Irene's dog Lou is the smartest dog in the world Irene is a Nomad pioneer in Canada! Irene's hiring tips Irene's FIRING tips What would she have told herself if she could go back in time and change something about opening her practice? Some links from the show: The First 90 Days Radical Candor Radical Candor Podcast The Making of a Startup Facebook group Irene's Instagram Toothlife Studio Tooth or Dare Podcast The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Mr. Thirsty One step is the only bite block isolation/evacuation unit on the market that plugs directly into your HVE! No special hardware and no chance for cross contamination! It effectively reduces aerosols, creates a SUPER dry field and is really easily adjusted for patient comfort! Our friends at Zirc are giving members of the Dental Hacks Nation a special buy to 25 packs and get one 25 pack free! Use promo code HACKS21 through September 2020. Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/thirsty! The 2020 Cellerant Best of Class Awards were announced. What is the Cellerant Best of Class Award you ask? Well imagine if there was an Oscar for dental products and services. Thought leaders and clinicians vote on the best and most innovative products in dentistry and our friends at YAPI received a "Best of Class Technology Award!" YAPI provides paperless and automation software to dentists and boasts the longest track record for integrated patient forms that read and write data with dental practice management software. Since 2010, YAPI has evolved into a comprehensive system that also includes patient communication, reputation management, intra-office chat, and VoIP integration. So admit it...you're impressed, right? Well you should be! And you should go check out what YAPI can do for your practice at dentalhacks.com/YAPI! Congratulations guys! You deserve it! Go Hack Yourself: Jason: The Madness of Crowds Alan: Stealthshield Masks by Aswemove If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Alan had a chance to talk with Joshua Scott of Studio 8E8. Joshua has around 20 years of experience in dental marketing and he realized that dental marketing sucks. It's a harsh truth, but totally true. We discuss all about marketing in dentistry: Authenticity and storytelling in the dental space (Al is a Seth Godin fanboy) How dental marketing USED to work What is Joshua's hack to reduce expenses that you might not be using? What's his 24 hour rule? Do patients see dentists as a commodity? Can we change that? How customers see your office and creating an experience Telling the story of safety isn't going anywhere What does storytelling mean to Joshua? How important is SEO? Reviews? What's the best creative medium? Why does Joshua feel like you need to do all of it instead of focusing on one type of medium? Dental stock photography is horrible Startup marketing vs. existing practice marketing How important is branding in dentistry? Some links from the show: Enova Headlamp Studio 8E8 Joshua's Instagram Studio 8E8 Facebook Ashley Joves' practice "Smile and Co." The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  The 2020 Cellerant Best of Class Awards were announced. What is the Cellerant Best of Class Award you ask? Well imagine if there was an Oscar for dental products and services. Thought leaders and clinicians vote on the best and most innovative products in dentistry and our friends at YAPI received a "Best of Class Technology Award!" YAPI provides paperless and automation software to dentists and boasts the longest track record for integrated patient forms that read and write data with dental practice management software. Since 2010, YAPI has evolved into a comprehensive system that also includes patient communication, reputation management, intra-office chat, and VoIP integration. So admit it...you're impressed, right? Well you should be! And you should go check out what YAPI can do for your practice at dentalhacks.com/YAPI! Congratulations guys! You deserve it! Mr. Thirsty One step is the only bite block isolation/evacuation unit on the market that plugs directly into your HVE! No special hardware and no chance for cross contamination! It effectively reduces aerosols, creates a SUPER dry field and is really easily adjusted for patient comfort! Our friends at Zirc are giving members of the Dental Hacks Nation a special buy to 25 packs and get one 25 pack free! Use promo code HACKS21 through September 2020. Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/thirsty! Go Hack Yourself: Jason: Bryant Consultants Alan: Dabble Writer If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Jason and Alan are joined by Dr. Mark Costes and Dr. Brad Keener for a really interesting talk. As it turns out, both of these friends of the show survived accidents that left their faces and teeth smashed up. Both of them have been pretty open about what had happened to them in the past, but we thought it might be interesting to hear about what it was like to be a patient of a big reconstruction after traumatic accidents. And we were right! This is an interview that you aren't going to want to miss! Some links from the show: [caption id="attachment_1878" align="alignleft" width="500"] Brad's radiograph[/caption][caption id="attachment_1879" align="alignleft" width="352"] Brad's after[/caption] The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Mr. Thirsty One step is the only bite block isolation/evacuation unit on the market that plugs directly into your HVE! No special hardware and no chance for cross contamination! It effectively reduces aerosols, creates a SUPER dry field and is really easily adjusted for patient comfort! Our friends at Zirc are giving members of the Dental Hacks Nation a special buy to 25 packs and get one 25 pack free! Use promo code HACKS21 through September 2020. Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/thirsty! The 2020 Cellerant Best of Class Awards were announced. What is the Cellerant Best of Class Award you ask? Well imagine if there was an Oscar for dental products and services. Thought leaders and clinicians vote on the best and most innovative products in dentistry and our friends at YAPI received a "Best of Class Technology Award!" YAPI provides paperless and automation software to dentists and boasts the longest track record for integrated patient forms that read and write data with dental practice management software. Since 2010, YAPI has evolved into a comprehensive system that also includes patient communication, reputation management, intra-office chat, and VoIP integration. So admit it...you're impressed, right? Well you should be! And you should go check out what YAPI can do for your practice at dentalhacks.com/YAPI! Congratulations guys! You deserve it! Go Hack Yourself: Jason: Duncan Trussell on Joe Rogan Mark: mergers with the selling dentist holding paper (banks aren't lending, yo) Brad: Crossfit Alan: "Harley Quinn" season 2 If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Jason talks with Dr. Ziv Simon. Ziv is a periodontist, an immigrant and an educator. He practices in Beverly Hills and has an amazing educational portal called SurgicalMaster. The immigrant mentality and how it has affected Ziv's journey (The Obstacle is the Way) How did serving in the Israeli army affect his story? How has online education changed the way we learn? What makes a good online learning forum? How can we keep it safe? More surgery = more complications Listen to your mom! Case selection and picking the winners Developing patient relationships How to start doing more soft tissue surgery in your office What's the story about the SurgicalMaster system? Abundance mindset vs. scarcity mindset Attack vs. retreat Ziv's take on the coronavirus shutdown How to gain patient's trust after COVID? (spoiler: transparency) How a smartphone can make you $1 million. It's about authenticity. Cutting the fat during lean times Shredded Academy, and is the pain worth it? Some links from the show: Check out Enova Illumination's "Pop Up Experience" on September 10, 11 and 12 at the Graduate Hotel! You can check out Enova's loupes, headlights and other innovations along side of the amazing Zumax microscopes now available in the United States! Reservations are required, so hurry up and grab your spot to see the most innovative magnification and lighting in dentistry! SurgicalMaster website The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  The 2020 Cellerant Best of Class Awards were announced. What is the Cellerant Best of Class Award you ask? Well imagine if there was an Oscar for dental products and services. Thought leaders and clinicians vote on the best and most innovative products in dentistry and our friends at YAPI received a "Best of Class Technology Award!" YAPI provides paperless and automation software to dentists and boasts the longest track record for integrated patient forms that read and write data with dental practice management software. Since 2010, YAPI has evolved into a comprehensive system that also includes patient communication, reputation management, intra-office chat, and VoIP integration. So admit it...you're impressed, right? Well you should be! And you should go check out what YAPI can do for your practice at dentalhacks.com/YAPI! Congratulations guys! You deserve it! Mr. Thirsty One step is the only bite block isolation/evacuation unit on the market that plugs directly into your HVE! No special hardware and no chance for cross contamination! It effectively reduces aerosols, creates a SUPER dry field and is really easily adjusted for patient comfort! Our friends at Zirc are giving members of the Dental Hacks Nation a special buy to 25 packs and get one 25 pack free! Use promo code HACKS21 through September 2020. Go check it out at dentalhacks.com/thirsty! Go Hack Yourself: Jason: "Uncharted" with Gordon Ramsay, New Zealand Alan: Zumax OMS2380 microscope from Enova Illumination If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Jason is joined by Hollie Bryant, a dental coach and consultant. They talk a lot about the business of dentistry, managing an office and team, especially after the COVID shut down. Some of the topics they covered are: Why is "consultant" a dirty word? When is the right time to bring on a consultant? Is growth always the goal? What does growth look like? People don't look for/find creative solutions when things are good How are new dentists being brainwashed? What should we look for as fall approaches? How often should we call patients? When? Hollie on "cross training" in the office Hollie on "farming duties out" and creating a team Hollie on bringing your kids to work Dentists doing prophies Dental office becoming "virtual schools" Can dental offices attract "medical" people? Leadership is more important now more than ever before! COVID and depression Some links from the show: Bryant Consultants website email: Hollie@bryantconsultants.com A. Titan self aspirating syringe Septodont self aspirating syringe The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  For years YAPI has provided dentists with essential email marketing tools like automated appointment reminders, continuing care messages, newsletters, new patient welcome emails, and targeted email blasts to stay in consistent communication with your patients. YAPI is excited to announce the launch of their new and powerful email marketing campaign builder, accessible anytime and anywhere through YAPI POP! Our users will love this new feature along with its simple layout and user-friendly interface. Whether you are a first-timer or an email marketing pro, you will love the added simplicity of sending email campaigns to your patients! Go check out all of your email campaign options (and a whole lot more) at dentalhacks.com/email! Single tooth isolation can be a snap with the Instidam from Zirc! I love using the Instidam Latex Free Relaxed. It has the frame built right in and has just the right tension to allow easy placement and easy radiographs throughout the procedure. Single use means no sterilization and no cross contamination! Go check out Al's favorite at dentalhacks.com/relaxed and use coupon code "INSTIHACKS" for $5 off of a 20 pack of regular or "relaxed" through August! Go Hack Yourself: Jason: skidding tongs Alan: The Scaredy Cats Horror Show podcast and Blocked and Reported podcast If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Today we feature an interview that Alan did with Dr. Ashley Joves and Dr. George Hariri on their new podcast, "Dental Friends with Benefits." They brought Alan on to talk about his experience with addiction, rehab, recovery and helping others. It's a wide ranging conversation that we're sure our audience could benefit from! Some links from the show: Vivobarefoot Microcopy "very fine" diamonds Fatty McGee The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Single tooth isolation can be a snap with the Instidam from Zirc! I love using the Instidam Latex Free Relaxed. It has the frame built right in and has just the right tension to allow easy placement and easy radiographs throughout the procedure. Single use means no sterilization and no cross contamination! Go check out Al's favorite at dentalhacks.com/relaxed and use coupon code "INSTIHACKS" for $5 off of a 20 pack of regular or "relaxed" through August! For years YAPI has provided dentists with essential email marketing tools like automated appointment reminders, continuing care messages, newsletters, new patient welcome emails, and targeted email blasts to stay in consistent communication with your patients. YAPI is excited to announce the launch of their new and powerful email marketing campaign builder, accessible anytime and anywhere through YAPI POP! Our users will love this new feature along with its simple layout and user-friendly interface. Whether you are a first-timer or an email marketing pro, you will love the added simplicity of sending email campaigns to your patients! Go check out all of your email campaign options (and a whole lot more) at dentalhacks.com/email! Go Hack Yourself: Jason: Anutra anesthetic buffering Alan: Jabra Elite 75T If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Dr. Justin Moody and Dr. Steven Vorholt from Implant Pathways join Alan to explain how dental implant education has become better and easier than ever before! Justin started Implant Pathway in 2016 and it's become the premier place in the U.S. to learn implant placement and restoration! In this interview we discuss: How has coronavirus affected hands on dental CE? Where do the patients come from for Implant Pathway? What's the difference between the conventional pathway vs. "fast track?" How does the Implant Pathway work? Why Arizona? What's the difference between live patient courses in Arizona vs. overseas? What's the best way to teach complications? Because, they happen! When will Al be going through the Implant Pathway fast track? Are we going to do Voices of Dentistry in 2021? For the record, Dr. Mark Costes is a really good dentist! What changes in implants have made it so accessible for regular dentists? Some links from the show: The Rubber Dam Masterclass by Dr. Calin Pop Nic Tone Rubber Dam Implant Pathway Implant Pathway Instagram The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Single tooth isolation can be a snap with the Instidam from Zirc! I love using the Instidam Latex Free Relaxed. It has the frame built right in and has just the right tension to allow easy placement and easy radiographs throughout the procedure. Single use means no sterilization and no cross contamination! Go check out Al's favorite at dentalhacks.com/relaxed and use coupon code "INSTIHACKS" for $5 off of a 20 pack of regular or "relaxed" through August! For years YAPI has provided dentists with essential email marketing tools like automated appointment reminders, continuing care messages, newsletters, new patient welcome emails, and targeted email blasts to stay in consistent communication with your patients. YAPI is excited to announce the launch of their new and powerful email marketing campaign builder, accessible anytime and anywhere through YAPI POP! Our users will love this new feature along with its simple layout and user-friendly interface. Whether you are a first-timer or an email marketing pro, you will love the added simplicity of sending email campaigns to your patients! Go check out all of your email campaign options (and a whole lot more) at dentalhacks.com/email! Go Hack Yourself: Jason: (Un)well on Netflix Alan: The Murderbot Diaries by Martha Wells If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Jason and Alan are back! Fresh from getting hit by a truck, the Dental Hacks spend time answering questions from the ever-brilliant Dental Hacks Nation! Some of the queries they address: Russell Schafer asks, “what toothpaste do y’all use?” Anonymous Facebook user asks, “what is the best concert you’ve ever gone to?” Anonymous Facebook user asks, “favorite Disney/Pixar movie? Richard Vernon asks, “How do you see the next 5 years post COVID impacting U.S. dentists and dentistry?” Richard Burgess asks, “are your kids going to physically be at school or do it remotely or a hybrid version?”Jake Skowronski asks, “Would you take hydorxychloroqine right now if you started feeling crummy and tested positive this morning for COVID 19? Brad Keener asks, “who would win an Indian leg wrestling match?” Craig Harder asks, “which episode is your favorite?” Sarah Erickson asks, “boxers or briefs?” Adnan Omran asks, “would you rather fight one hundred duck-sized horses or one horse sized duck?” Matt Jourdain asks, “favorite nacho topping?” Teresa Duncan: “most favorite and most annoying patients. Not types - a specific patient. Looking for stories here.” Zachary Meiners asks, “crystal ball: will Chicago midwinter meeting happen?” Melissa Zetter asks, “Whats the first place you will go when this damn COVID ends?” Flash Davies asks, "Which is more painful, having to homeschool your kids or being hit by a truck?” Roger Mead (the other one) asks, “are you serving birthday cake for Alan?” Some links from the show: [caption id="attachment_1822" align="alignleft" width="500"] Gleem Toothpaste[/caption]       The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Single tooth isolation can be a snap with the Instidam from Zirc! I love using the Instidam Latex Free Relaxed. It has the frame built right in and has just the right tension to allow easy placement and easy radiographs throughout the procedure. Single use means no sterilization and no cross contamination! Go check out Al's favorite at dentalhacks.com/relaxed and use coupon code "INSTIHACKS" for $5 off of a 20 pack of regular or "relaxed" through August! For years YAPI has provided dentists with essential email marketing tools like automated appointment reminders, continuing care messages, newsletters, new patient welcome emails, and targeted email blasts to stay in consistent communication with your patients. YAPI is excited to announce the launch of their new and powerful email marketing campaign builder, accessible anytime and anywhere through YAPI POP! Our users will love this new feature along with its simple layout and user-friendly interface. Whether you are a first-timer or an email marketing pro, you will love the added simplicity of sending email campaigns to your patients! Go check out all of your email campaign options (and a whole lot more) at dentalhacks.com/email! Go Hack Yourself: Jason: The Umbrella Academy Alan: BQE Ergodynamic chair If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

Dr. Josh Austin and Dr. Lance Timmerman join Jason and Alan to talk about their new podcast, Working Interferences with Josh and Lance. You know what would be a great idea? A podcast that gives advice to dental people. Or not so great advice. Either way, really. Dr. Josh Austin and Dr. Lance Timmerman have just the thing! The Hacks and the Interferences go through some "Working Interferences" style advice and it's a blast! Beware...it gets pretty ugly. Perhaps the most editing for content of any Dental Hacks podcast in the past! Some links from the show: Screening your patients in advance, downloading forms.. printing.. manually texting and emailing sure works up an appetite...YAPI wants to help curb your appetite and also help ‘curbside’ your check in process to make life easier. Schedule a demo at https://yapiapp.com/partners/dental-hacks/ and also read on if you are hangry from all the extra steps you are going through! YAPI is going to pick two winners to receive a $100 gift card towards their favorite delivery app at the end of this month. To enter, all you have to do is comment on this post in the Dental Hacks Nation Facebook page with your favorite delivery app! What’s your favorite? The Working Interferences Podcast The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember...if you don't have any thing "dental" on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com. Go Hack Yourself:  Jason: Big Jawbone edentulous trays Al: The Impact podcast If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer...give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into "What's Hot" in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the Dental Hacks! Finally, if you aren't an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you're a part of the Hacks Nation!  

In today's throwback episode (originally presented May 19, 2017), Dr. Dennis Hartlieb joins Jason and Alan to talk about his journey from believing composite was a "temporary material" into creating an entire rehab in composite! Dr. Dennis Hartlieb was one of Dr. Frank Spear's original students. He's been learning excellence in restorative dentistry for 25  years or more. But like many dentists, he used to believe composite had no place in long term restorative dentistry. Then he met Dr. Buddy Mopper and he began to change his mind. Dennis is a really engaged teacher. Really approachable and seems to really understand how dentists learn. Some highlights: Dennis's approach to team bulding...learn one, do one, teach one! Simple composite solutions that can make a huge difference! How does sleep apnea affect restorative dentistry? A description of Dennis' course at Cosmedent, "CPR for the worn dentition." Some links from the show: The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember...if you don't have any thing "dental" on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com. Screening your patients in advance, downloading forms.. printing.. manually texting and emailing sure works up an appetite...YAPI wants to help curb your appetite and also help ‘curbside’ your check in process to make life easier. Schedule a demo at https://yapiapp.com/partners/dental-hacks/ and also read on if you are hangry from all the extra steps you are going through! YAPI is going to pick two winners to receive a $100 gift card towards their favorite delivery app at the end of this month. To enter, all you have to do is comment on this post in the Dental Hacks Nation Facebook page with your favorite delivery app! What’s your favorite? The Dental Hacks Nation Facebook page has spoken! They love the Zirc Crystal HD mirror! And now, you can get a great deal when you use coupon code "dentalhackshd" at www.dentalhacks.com/mirrors. Go Hack Yourself: Jason: IRIS large photo keeper for implant parts Alan: Brasseler/NSK Forza ELM electric motor (bonus: Pelican case for audio gear) If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer...give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into "What's Hot" in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren't an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you're a part of the Hacks Nation!

Alan is joined by Dr. Rich Rosenblatt, Dr. Erin Elliott, Dr. Joshua Austin and Dr. Lance Timmerman to answer the quandries of the ever curious Dental Hacks Nation! What do you do when a patient you dismissed wants to talk with you? What do you do when your patient tells you a specialist you referred them to was acting inappropriately? This and a bunch of other great situations were proposed to the brilliant and hilarious Brain Trust and you won’t want to miss how they answered! The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have any thing “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com. Want to get your operatories more organized? Zirc’s ZOBE and RESET programs are just the thing! And they’re offering almost 50% off of the RESET program to the first three Dental Hacks listeners that sign up! Find out more at www.dentalhacks.com/RESET Go Hack Yourself: Jason: Moviepass Alan: Flipside 4 wallet If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation!

We have trouble believing you haven’t already heard of our guest this week, Susan Wiggs, but just in case—she’s the author of many many novels, a multiple #1 New York Times bestseller and an overall amazing storyteller. Her current novel, The Lost and Found Bookshop, is on sale now and her most recent bestseller, The Oysterville Sewing Circle, is just out in paperback.We talk crafting a story, starting from the emotional journey versus the physical plot, building a character, choosing a setting and our collective addiction to writing books, and Susan reveals that she does indeed read fiction while she’s writing fiction—and it’s a good thing, too, because her reading list is long indeed. Links from the PodWriting the Blockbuster Novel by Albert ZuckermanThis American Life, Promised Land (the “I Wish” song episode)#AmReading (all Susan, and you’ll see why)Aging in Place by Aaron D MurphyBeing Mortal by Atul GawandeOn Ocean Boulevard by Mary Alice MonroeHouse Lessons by Erica BauermeisterUntamed by Glennon DoyleThe Splendid and the Vile by Erik LarsonSabrina and Corina by Kali Fajardo-AnstineThe Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins ReidThanks to everyone who supports the podcast financially. To join that team, click the button below:But it’s all good. The pod is free as it always has and always will be. This shownotes email is free, too, so please—forward it to a friend, and if you haven’t already, join our email list and be on top of it every time there’s a new episode.Find more about Jess here, Sarina here and about KJ here.KJ Dell'Antonia 0:00 Hey, fellow writers this week we've got an outright amazing conversation with Susan Wiggs. Many, many times bestselling author of many, many novels, who really knows how to construct a story. And when getting the work done doesn't just take talent and dedication, but an understanding of the craft of creating a story. If you'd like to work with someone who understands that craft, head over to Author Accelerator and look into finding the right book coach for your work, or if craft is your jam, learn more about becoming a book coach yourself at authoraccelerator.com. Is it recording? Jess Lahey 0:36 Now it's recording.KJ Dell'Antonia 0:39 This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone and try to remember what I'm supposed to be doing. Jess Lahey 0:43 Alright, let's start over. KJ Dell'Antonia 0:44 Awkward pause. I'm gonna rustle some papers. Okay, now one, two, three. Hey, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia. And this is #AmWriting. #AmWriting is the podcast, the weekly podcast, about writing all things, fiction, nonfiction, short things, long things, pitches, proposals, everything you have to write before anybody lets you write anything. And in short, this is the podcast about sitting down and getting that work done.Sarina Bowen 1:16 And this is Sarina Bowen. I'm the author of 35 romance novels. You can always find more about me at sarinabowen.com.KJ Dell'Antonia 1:26 And I am KJ Dell'Antonia, the author of the novel The Chicken Sisters, and also the book How to Be a Happier Parent, former editor of the New York Times' Motherlode blog, and still sometimes a contributor there. And we are so excited to welcome our guest this week. This is the first guest we've ever had that has rivaled Sarina in prolificness. We're so excited to welcome Susan Wiggs. She is the author of (I think I counted 37 but as soon as I let her talk, I'm gonna check) novels, multiple number one New York Times' bestseller and an overall amazing storyteller. When you pick up a Susan Wiggs book, you know that you're getting a fully built world and a story that's going to grab you and hold you tight and that you're going to be sorry when it lets you go. Her current novel is The Lost and Found Bookstore. And she's also got another novel just out in paperback - The Oysterville Sewing Circle. That one's just out right now. Am I right?Susan Wiggs 2:29 That's correct. It's just out in a paperback, the book club edition just came out.KJ Dell'Antonia 2:35 Ooh, cool. I love the whole book club edition and this edition.Susan Wiggs 2:41 I just love book clubs in general. So yeah, thank you so much for having me. This is such a thrill to talk to somebody who's not a fictional character.KJ Dell'Antonia 2:51 Yeah, we don't do much of that right now either. They're either fictional characters or they live in our house, that's all we got. So yeah, we are really excited - so, how many books is it before I even get started? Susan Wiggs 3:02 Oh, I knew you're gonna ask me that. And you know what? To be honest, I don't have a count. But I can tell you my first book was published in 1987. Huntington Zebra books, and I've published a book or two every year since. And so I've stopped doing the math. I just write my next book.KJ Dell'Antonia 3:27 But we will ask, you just because our listeners always want to know. How did you get started? Tell us how that first 1987 book happened, travel back in time with us.Susan Wiggs 3:40 You know what, you always remember your first time and I'll just leave it at that. I'll leave that to your imagination. But honestly, I was a young teacher just out of graduate school. I got myself through graduate school by reading really big, thick, romance novels, you know, the real bodice rippers all through the 80's. And so yeah, I had such a taste for them, and such an affection for them and a love for the form that I just wrote one. And I had no idea what I was doing. I wrote it on a typewriter. I didn't know about any writer's associations. I knew Writer's Digest, I was a subscriber to Writer's Digest, I always knew that I wanted to write and so I wrote a book called Texas Wildflower and I wrote it on a typewriter. It was this huge, unwieldy pile of pages. I was very proud of it, but I didn't know what to do with it. And so somehow, I wormed my way onto an editor's desk at Kensington Books, which had and probably still prints Zebra, Pinnacle, various ones like that and they're still up and going, and the editor's name was Wendy McCurdy, and she's still in the business. I believe she may be back at Kensington now. Anyway, she was delightful. You know, very young, probably as young as I was at the time, editor who called me up in the middle of a very busy life. I had a toddler, and dogs, and a house, and a teaching job. And I was very overwhelmed. And she called me in the middle of all that and said, 'We like your book, and we want to publish it.' And I was just floored. Yes, I was stunned. I didn't have an agent. And so I just said, 'Yes, where do I sign?' And so it's interesting that we would be talking about this right now because one of the things that I did because I didn't have a literary agent, I didn't really know how to negotiate any sort of contract. And one of the biggest blunders that I made that is turning out to be kind of a very funny and happy accident was I gave them the copyright back then. And I think now copyrights revert to the author if the book is out of print and unavailable for, I believe, three to five years. And I think I signed my name to something to say it was out of print and unavailable, but they had 16 years to reprint it. And in those 16 years, my books became rather popular. And so they never wanted to revert the rights to me because I would always say the book's not out, it's very old, don't you want to revert the rights to me? Because that way, the author controls his rights and creative control over that property and you know, you can resell it and things like that, but no, they kept hanging on to it. And so I'm sitting here, it is 2020 and I'm looking at a royalty check dated May 26, 2020 for that book, for Texas Wildflower that was first published in April 1987. Because they keep reissuing it, they still have it in print, they reissued it numerous times in different packaging. And as my books have evolved, the very original cover (you can probably find it on my website susanwiggs.com) was a very, very in your face bodice ripper cover. I just loved it, I thought was really cool. But as my books have become more mainstream and evolved into general fiction, or mainstream fiction, the covers look very upmarket now and rather sophisticated. It's basically the same book - at one point I did go in and do some light editorial work, and, you know, cringing the whole time because obviously after you know, 50 something books, I'm not that same writer that wrote Texas Wildflower - and so I had some rookie moments in that book, many of them, and yet readers still, they're drawn to something about that book. So, you know, it's still in print. So thank you, Kensington Books for keeping me alive on your list.KJ Dell'Antonia 5:40 That's a great story. And I love that it is still out there. And the cover thing is really funny because we have talked to a lot of authors and we've seen that same evolution many times. And I know Sarina and I are both really fascinated by cover art and why publishers and authors pick one style over the other and the new trend towards the sort of drawings instead of actual pictures of people.Susan Wiggs 8:48 All authors are obsessed with cover art. You know, even before I was published, I was designing the cover in my head, and I'm terrible at it, but I'm always gratified when I see the way that my books go out into the market because usually it's spot on, there have been some turkeys in my repertoire - no fault of mine or the publisher, sometimes they just don't turn out well, but the new book, The Lost and Found Bookshop, did you guys get a copy of it? Or the advanced reading copies? KJ Dell'Antonia 9:23 Yes, and I really, really love it. But do you know what, my copy doesn't have a cover. So I haven't seen it.Sarina Bowen 9:32 It's beautiful, though. I love the cover. Susan Wiggs 9:35 Well, the journey - that cover went through so many iterations. And the reason is that they try to build and this is a really great thing about publishers, if they're committed to an author, they really try to build you as a brand. And so you don't want each cover to be so unique that it doesn't even look like it could be by the same author. And so I had a rather good hit with The Oysterville Sewing Circle last year, and one of the big pieces and one reason that that book really struck a chord was it had an incredibly striking cover. It was like stark white with this blood red spool of thread on the front with a sharp pin sticking through it. And they wanted to build on that. But I wrote about a bookshop, so there's no sharp needles or anything. And so we really struggled with what this new book should look like so that it kind of accesses the spirit of the previous book, but also is inviting and beautiful enough to attract new readers as well. So I hope this cover does it. It hasn't hit the shelves yet, so I guess we'll see.Sarina Bowen 10:43 It's very beautiful.KJ Dell'Antonia 10:45 Yeah, I agree. And I can see how it looks with The Oysterville Sewing Circle, I've just pulled it up. Sarina Bowen 10:52 It's a lovely analogy to that other book but I also noticed that your that Oysterville has a new cover, too. Which is also very beautiful, and sometimes publishers do that. If they don't like a cover, but sometimes they do it just to catch the eye of people who didn't grab it the first time.Susan Wiggs 11:12 Yes, there's been three iterations of the Oysterville cover. The first one with a big spool of thread was the hardcover. And then there was a mass market paperback that came out in January. And because of the timer in the pandemic time, it was widely available only in essential markets like Walmart, the places that could stay open during the pandemic. And so it sold like wildfire. In March, it was the number four New York Times' paperback. And so there was this little paperback edition of it and then they decided for this summer to do a premium paperback, they're called trade size paperback, and it's a bigger edition and they add extra content in the back. I think there's a reading group guide, and article, and a recipe, and some other materials back there to give reading groups something to chew on. And then they decided, let's use a new image on this cover and the one that they did on that edition was actually a rejected hardcover look, you know, they they tried several looks, and they knew it was a pretty look, but they wanted to go out in trade paperback with that one. So no effort is ever wasted. That's what I am finding out. Yeah, my agent calls it four bites at the apple because the fourth bite is the audio book. And audio books are quite a big category these days and there was a slump during pandemic but as things are opening and people are going back to work and commuting again, there's an upturn in audio sales.Sarina Bowen 12:12 Mm hmm. Yes, I definitely felt that audio slump in April.KJ Dell'Antonia 13:04 I want to say, You have so many books under your belt and you were talking about how that first one is very, very different from the writer that you are now and we wanted to talk about how you go about now, structuring a new story. Because your stories are so - I've only read your later stuff, so I didn't read the earlier stuff. Your stories now are so tight, and they really don't have a lot of extraneous stuff, and I really would love to hear where you start from and I guess we'll start with that. Where do you start when you're looking to start a new book?Susan Wiggs 13:54 That's one of those things that probably didn't change a lot from the very beginning. What inspires us, you know, something has to grab you, and it's almost visceral. And for example, in The Lost and Found Bookshop, it was a very stark moment that I had. I was speaking with some elderly people that lived at my mother's assisted living place, and I'm in charge of my mom's elder care, she now lives with me. And so I do a lot of speaking with groups like that. And one question that I love to ask older people is, what if you got to have a do over, you know, what if you got to make a different decision in your life? And so, somebody said something like, 'I would have been a meteorologist, but women weren't allowed to do that back then.' And I thought, wow, you know, I want to write about somebody who does get that opportunity. You know, she does get to walk away from her very steady, predictable, corporate job and life. Unfortunately, what drives her to that point is very tragic, but she does get there. And suddenly she gets to make a new blueprint for her life. And so I was very inspired by that. And I realized that with every book, even from that very, very first one, it's a moment of profound change in a character's life, whether it's a decision that she has to make or some situation that's forced on her. And so I'm most fascinated by that. And it's always, you know, my characters, there's a lot of variety. They come from all walks of life, but she's usually the smartest person in the book, but she doesn't know it. That's the one thing I would say they have in common, but from there, the process has become not a routine for me, but definitely a journey that has familiar signposts, you know, I have to know my character and I get to know her in ways that come to me subconsciously or I consciously research her world. I build her world around her, what did she do? What does she fear? What was her family of origin? Like that's huge for me, because I believe that people, as adults are the sum of their family of origin, good, bad, indifferent, or usually a mixture of everything. And I sort of build the character, psychologically and physically, that way. And at that point, I kind of have a sketch. It's usually written down in sketchy notes, and then I figure out what does she want, what is her utmost desire? And I try to figure out what that is and then find ways for her to not be able to have that. I know, it's kind of mean, but that's where the story comes from. Because people read for the struggle, I do, you know, somebody wants something, you know, Dorothy wants to get back to Kansas or Luke Skywalker wants to destroy the Death Star. Whatever, the main character has to want something that is profoundly important to them. Whether it's you know, to revive a failing bookstore and look after her elderly granddad, or to create a women's support group for domestic violence survivors, which is The Oysterville Sewing Circle. There has to be a really powerful want that I believe I relate to and readers might relate to and once I have that, I'm off to the races. I sort of pick the setting, and I populate her world, and I create a plot, and I write an outline. And I say outline, it's really just a 5-10 page present-tense narrative that I then pitch to my literary agent and my editor, sometimes separately, sometimes, simultaneously and they usually have some feedback for me. I have a writing group that I meet with regularly here on the West Coast up in Puget Sound, which is where I'm broadcasting from. And through that process, I get a roadmap for my book and then I kind of disappear with my pen and paper for about six months and I do write with pen and paper it's kind of old school but it keeps the distractions at bay while I'm drafting the story.KJ Dell'Antonia 18:41 Wow, I want to come back to drafting with pen and paper. But Sarina and I often talk about (I'm only on like novel number two in terms of anything I'm going to try to sell) but...Susan Wiggs 18:53 Then you are light years ahead of 99% of everybody else, believe me.KJ Dell'Antonia 18:58 And I don't discount my treatment I'm super excited, my debut is coming out this summer, everything is going great. And I'm just literally, like, painful minutes away from giving the draft of the second book to my agent so we can figure out if maybe we can go out with it before the first one comes out. Susan Wiggs 19:23 You know, every writer is convinced that all the other writers have the answer. And we always want to pick each other's brain.KJ Dell'Antonia 19:29 Yes, it's easier for everyone else. Susan Wiggs 19:30 I want to hear how everybody else does it because I'm doing something wrong because I'm so stuck right now.KJ Dell'Antonia 19:36 Well, we often talk about whether you start from the emotional story or the plot story and it sounds like for you, it's almost always the emotional story.Susan Wiggs 19:46 Yes, because I have to have some sort of connection. Otherwise, I'm just writing a work report. And there's also something that really resonated with me, it was on that one of the very first podcasts of history This American Life, probably familiar with it, with Ira Glass. I don't remember the the specific episode but he talked about something called the wish song that appears in every Disney animated musical. The main character looks out at the landscape whether it's in the little French town for Beauty and the Beast or in the wishing well for Snow White or whatever and they sing a song, and the song expresses their wish. And so I don't give my character a wish song but I look for that deeply held emotional and sentimental desire, you know, the yearning that the characters expresses. And when you build the story around the character, then her emotional journey is really the plot. She has to do something she has to be in a world in a situation but her emotional journey is really where I go to get my deepest pieces of the story.KJ Dell'Antonia 21:39 And then when you're trying to take that emotional journey and marry it to a physical journey. Do you generally know where you're going from the beginning? Is it hard to figure out what physical journey will best tell that emotional story? I'm sure you're really good at by now...Susan Wiggs 22:00 Well i don't know but I do know that it's the fun part for me because I love to explore different settings. There are some writers who go back to the same setting again and again and it really works for them and they get known for being a writer of a certain region or something like that. For me, I love to travel and I'm such a fan of world travel. So I love to find what will bring out the deepest aspects of this character. Is it a city, is it a beach, is a lake, is it somewhere out in the countryside? What time period is it and so I have all these different explorations that I do where I find the perfect pairing. Because some of my stories, like The Oysterville Sewing Circle, it could take place anywhere in the world. It's a woman on a career path, who has a big complicated life situation, and she ends up forming a group for domestic violence survivors, but I ended up setting it in the most remote town in the most remote piece of beach on the Washington coast called Oysterville, because I felt like that was a metaphor for you know, this woman going out on a limb. And on the other hand, The Lost and Found Bookshop, I wanted a bookshop on like the cutest vintage street in San Francisco. Usually my setting is a place that I would love to be, a place I would love to visit. Some of my favorite books are books that make me want to go there, want to be there. So I've got a stack on my desk right now - I've got Ocean Boulevard, and there's a beach picture, and I've got hello summer, and there's another beach. We've got a theme going here. So the setting is something that I hope will play up aspects of the story and character in a metaphorical way. And so that's one of the things and then the other thing that I love playing with is, as a writer, we get to live so many different lives, we get to have so many different jobs. And so every main character I've ever written has a job that I fantasize about. She's a photographer, she's a dancer, she's a writer. Well, I don't fantasize about that, I know the grim reality of that, but I've always wanted to be a bookseller. And so The Lost and Found Bookshop was gratifying for me to write about that. But we're very lucky because we get to experience these things vicariously through our research and through the people that we write about. So it keeps it very exciting and fresh. We don't go back to the same job day in and day out.Sarina Bowen 25:08 Right. And a bookseller is an interesting observer of humanity in terms of who comes in to look at what. That's a really durable archetype, which is amazing.KJ Dell'Antonia 25:24 Hey, listeners, KJ here, before Susan tells you what she's been reading, let me tell you, that's a lot. Let's talk about what you're writing, or rather where you're writing, Sarina and I have been loving our new Dabble Writer software. I've already raved about how intuitive it is, and how much we love the plotting tool. But since this episode is about beach reads, and I hope you're finding a way to indulge in a summer getaway, I want to tell you that another cool feature of dabble is that you can use it anywhere and on any device. Online, offline, PC, Mac, Chromebook, Mobile, they all work and they're always synched up. So the edits you jotted into your phone yesterday are right there on your desktop today. We really think you'll like it and we'd love to hear what you think. So check it out with a free trial at dabblewriter.com and then get in touch.Sarina Bowen 26:25 But I wanted to take you back a second to the Disney wish song because that was really interesting to me. I'm actually not a big Disney watcher, as my kids are a little older now but, I hadn't really realized that before. And I love that you start from the character's wish. I find when I start, and I'm wondering how you get past this, but sometimes does that wish feel a little bit thin to you until you really dig in. It's like the chicken and an egg of character conflict.Susan Wiggs 27:03 Absolutely, totally. And I'm always so envious when I open a book, and the character has this life or death problem or situation, because my books are really personal and they're kind of intimate and they're very much about a woman's desires in her everyday life and she's not out saving the world or vanquishing bad guys or something like that. And so my stories - until I really dig into them - feel a little every day, a little mundane. And so I'm very sensitive about that and it possibly makes me work harder, all the harder on the aspects that are really going to bring the story to life for the reader and really going to get the reader involved and behind the character. And with The Lost and Found Bookshop, one of the things that the publisher did is they sent out a lot of advance reading copies to working booksellers, or actually furloughed booksellers because of the time that we're in, and the feedback that they got was so extraordinary that they ended up making a deck of quote cards with feedback from these booksellers. And it was really extraordinary to see how they experienced this book and what their feedback was. And so even though it was a woman who doesn't consider herself anything special, she was really special to these readers. So I'm really hopeful that when the book goes out into the world and is not my baby anymore, the readers will relate to that.Sarina Bowen 28:51 That's wonderful. And as you point out, those of us who write emotional journeys, you know, some days doesn't it seem super tempting to just kidnap your heroine on the first page?Susan Wiggs 29:02 Yeah, it does really and you know, have her like swept away by pirates or something just to get the action going, when instead she's got to give a presentation at work and it sucks and, you know, something like that. Actually, that's interesting that you brought that up because my original opening scene of The Lost and Found Bookshop was pretty much exactly that. She had a work situation at her corporate job and it does not go well. And it's very important to her. But I was concerned that the readers might not hook right into her because she's a little challenged by the situation and she's not a warm, fuzzy person in that moment. And that's a little risky to do, because you want your reader to like your protagonist right from the start. And so, I was apprehensive about doing that. So what I did is I added and this is something I sometimes do, I sometimes don't, I added a prologue. And the prologue put her in the most emotionally stressful situation I could find for her at that moment, so there's like just a one page prologue, it's really quick, but it's like, everything that I wanted the reader to know about this character, so that when they turn the page, and there she is in her work meeting, and she's sweating and nervous and that sort of thing, they can relate to her in a different way. So that was actually a writing craft moves that I made, you know, a lot of writing is inspiration and it's art and it's talent. But a good other segment of it is just knowing how to manipulate your craft and steer your craft towards the best experience for the reader.Sarina Bowen 30:59 It's been Powerful to realize at some point in your development as an author that you have got the spotlight in two hands and you can point it wherever you want.Susan Wiggs 31:10 It is and hopefully we know what to do with that spotlight. That's generally what revisions are for, right?KJ Dell'Antonia 31:19 Yeah. I sometimes find myself just thinking, I don't know, it felt kind of like this last time and it kind of worked last time. So I'm just hoping it's working now.Susan Wiggs 31:32 Yes. And it's hard when you're deep in the weeds of your draft of your novel, it's really, really hard to have the perspective that ultimately the reader is going to have and sometimes you just have to forge ahead on faith. KJ Dell'Antonia 31:48 So when you are lost in those weeds do you find yourself going back to that 5-10 page narrative that you mentioned at the beginning? Susan Wiggs 31:56 Um, no, what I usually do is go pull weeds in my garden or hike with the dogs or something, and try to walk away from it for a bit. And then I also do more research, a lot of times I'm stuck at a spot in the book, and I just need to read more about the situation, you know, whether it's more articles about elder care or more articles about this Spanish American War, which has a very weird, kind of interesting little spotlight in the book. So sometimes I just do more research. There's a very good book, there's so many good writing books, but one of them that was quite instructive to me a million years ago, it was called Writing the Blockbuster Novel by Al Zuckerman. He was (maybe still is) a big agent in New York, and he was Ken Follett's agent and he talks about when you get blocked the first thing you should do is go back and do more research into your setting, and your situation, and into the character's job. And I don't know that that resolves it every time for me, but it's very helpful.KJ Dell'Antonia 33:11 I love books like that. I love books that at least just tell me something to do when I'm stuck, anything, just just give me something I can get my fingers into.Susan Wiggs 33:24 Yeah, I'm a writing book junkie. I have probably 16 linear feet of books on writing and I have my favorites but there's always something that I can glean from most of these. I don't always work through them cover to cover but I love browsing through them, that's always inspiring to me as well.KJ Dell'Antonia 33:48 I love hearing that because I am so there. I love stuff like Save the Cat Writes a Novel and Write Your novel in 90 days and it doesn't have to be great. I don't know, I like dipping out and finding a roadmap from time to time, I think.Susan Wiggs 34:06 Yeah. It goes back to writers being convinced that every other writer has a secret and they're hiding it from us. KJ Dell'Antonia 34:14 I do have the secrets to how other people can write them that turn out to be the problem. Well, this is a great time to shift into talking about what we have been reading. In every episode, we like to just shout out something that we've been enjoying lately. And so I hope you've had some time to read and have something in mind that's been keeping you entertained when you're not writing right now?Susan Wiggs 34:46 Absolutely. I'm always reading and I've always got a couple of books going - one on the nightstand and one in the living room and one wherever I happen to be. And right now some of my books reflect where I am in my life. I think I mentioned that my mom has moved here, she's 90, she's a bit high maintenance right now. So I'm reading. Let's see, I've got a stack here. I'm reading Aging in Place by Aaron D. Murphy. Not very interesting, except when you need it. But the other one that I just love, and I've read it before, but I'm rereading Being Mortal by Atul Gawande. Medicine and What Matters in the End. And then for light hearted reading, I have the new Mary Kay Andrews, Hello, Summer, was just published. And a good friend of mine, Mary Alice Monroe has a new book out called On Ocean Boulevard. And it's like the ultimate summer read. It looks like I haven't started it yet, but I'm looking forward to that one. I have a book here that is a memoir. Because one of the things that my husband does, he does a lot of things, he's a designer, but one thing that he's been doing is he's been renovating old houses. And he's not really a flipper because he renovates them beautifully and then sells them or rents them. But anyway, I'm very preoccupied with old houses these days. So I found this book House Lessons by Erica Baumeister, who's written some of my favorite books. She wrote a book called The School of Essential Ingredients that I loved. And this is a memoir of restoring an old house called House Lessons: Renovating a Life.Sarina Bowen 36:58 And then for my birthday my husband got me Untamed by Glennon Doyle, amazing, amazing memoir about a woman's very extraordinary journey.KJ Dell'Antonia 37:15 I'm in the middle of that one might now myself.Sarina Bowen 37:18 She's a wonderful writer and then I bought well because Father's Day is coming up and and Jerry is not my father, but his sons are probably going to forget. So I bought him the new Eric Larsen, The Splendid and the Vile, which is a history of Churchill during World War Two. And I just love Eric's books and Eric's a good friend of mine and so I tease him I say that he's everybody's father's favorite writer. You could always count on somebody's dad liking an Eric Larson book, just like you can always count on somebody's mom liking a Susan Wiggs book. And then two more on my nightstand. This one is a collection of stories called Sabrina and Kareena, there was a there's a lot of controversy about a big book that was out earlier this year called American Dirt. And it focused some attention on Latino writers or Latin ex-writers. And so I decided that I did not have enough on my shelf and so a bookseller recommended Sabrina and Kareena by Kali Fajardo-Anstine. But it won the National Book Award and the stories are just lovely. I love them. And then finally, I just started this morning over coffee The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo, by Taylor Jenkins Reid and If you haven't heard of her, you will soon because her book, which was called Daisy Jones and The Six is about to be a very big series on, I think Amazon Prime, or maybe Netflix, and quite, quite the big hit. And I adored that book as well. So I know I'm gonna like this new one. And you wonder with all these books that I'm reading, do I have time to write? No, I don't. Do I have a deadline? Yes, I do.KJ Dell'Antonia 39:26 We fully understand.Sarina Bowen 39:29 But you know what, reading books keeps the craft alive. As a writer, you read a book differently than just a reader. And I say just a reader with a lot of respect, but it's kind of like my husband's an apparel designer. And he can look at any garment and see what it took to make that garment and he knows a lot of technical things about it that the casual person wouldn't even know and I think the same can be said, of writing and it is a little harder for me and probably you guys to, to really get into a book. Just because we're also noticing things that are not supposed to be noticeable.KJ Dell'Antonia 40:14 Every so often I'll be like, Oh, I bet that was a major subplot at some point, there's a reason that that dog is a German Shepherd or whatever, you know, and but now there's not and you can go in and out of that mode, right? Well, so it I think rather than say anything that I'm reading, just because we have a great list here, I'm gonna just ask you one last question, which is - do you read fiction while you're writing it?Susan Wiggs 40:49 Always? Yes, I do.KJ Dell'Antonia 40:52 We do, too! So many people don't - or say they don't. Susan Wiggs 40:56 Um, I would probably go through withdrawal symptoms if I couldn't read fiction, and so for some reason, it's not a problem for me personally to distinguish what I'm writing from what I'm reading. And you know that I don't know if that's true for everybody. But it doesn't seem to be a problem for me. Maybe it's telling that one of my first things that I remember writing for publication was when I was in seventh grade, they decided to publish a book report that I had written in the newspaper because I was supposed to do a book report on Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck. And I was so destroyed by the ending of that book that I rewrote the whole ending of the book, and that was my book report. So my seventh grade teacher thought that it was interesting enough that you know, she published it in the newspaper. So that was one of my first publishing credits. I was rewriting John Steinbeck. So, I don't know maybe you need maybe you need that level of arrogance to kind of push your way into publishing.KJ Dell'Antonia 42:06 I think that you predicted your own future. Well, we have to respect your time but we are so grateful that you came and did this. I think this was a fantastic conversation about writing. I enjoyed it so much. Thank you.Susan Wiggs 42:21 Thank you so much. I'd love talking shop with you guys. You're amazing.KJ Dell'Antonia 42:25 It's great. So for our listeners, you're definitely going to want to look for The Lost and Found Bookshop and also maybe take a look at The Oysterville Sewing Circle. So, Sarina you want to take us out with our with our always final saying?Sarina Bowen 42:56 Until next week everyone, keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game. This episode of #AmWriting with Jess and KJ was produced by Andrew Parilla. Our music, aptly titled unemployed Monday was written and performed by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their services because everyone, even creatives should be paid. This is a public episode. Get access to private episodes at amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Meet two people with diabetes making a difference in very different ways. We're talking to dietitian and strength coach Ben Tzeell & teen author Morgan Panzirer.  First, if you've sort of fallen off the nutrition and exercise wagon in the last few months, you’re not alone. But getting back in the game doesn’t mean going to extremes. Ben has advice about starting small and making changes that stick. Morgan was diagnosed with T1D at age 6. She's now 19 and just wrote a book about her life – so far – with diabetes. It's called Actually I Can. Ben's Blood Sugar Boss program Megan's Book (Amazon) This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode Transcription  Stacey Simms  0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop created for people with diabetes by people who have diabetes, and by Dexcom, take control of your diabetes and live life to the fullest with Dexcom.   This week, I talked to two people with type one making a difference in very different ways. First, if you've sort of fallen off the nutrition exercise wagon in the last few months, you're not alone. But getting back in the game doesn't mean going to extremes.   Ben Tzeel  0:37 Life is too short to not enjoy food like that. And the last thing you want is you're constantly eating air quotes healthy, and now you're feeling deprived when you see all your friends eating these other things.   Stacey Simms  0:47 That's dietician and strength coach Ben Tzeel. He's got more advice about starting small and making changes that stick in Tell me something good. I'm talking to Morgan Panzirer diagnosed at age six. She's now 19 and just wrote a book about her life so far with diabetes.   Morgan Panzirer  1:05 And I vividly remember being in the car driving to New York City The following day, and saying to my parents, everything will be fine as long as I don't need a shot.   Stacey Simms  1:15 The book is called, actually I can, and after talking to Morgan, I can tell you better believe she can. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Welcome to another week of Diabetes Connections. I am so glad to have you along. Welcome if you're brand new, we aim to educate and inspire about type 1 diabetes by sharing stories of connection. My son was diagnosed right before he turned two. He is now 15 and a half. My husband lives with type two diabetes. I don't have diabetes. I have a background in broadcasting. And that is how you get the podcast. I have been so busy the last week mostly because for whatever reason, sometimes podcast interviews seem to come in clumps. So I had a lot of interviews to do and a lot of production I take care of a lot of it before I send it over to my editor who I've mentioned before, but also I've been busy with my Friends for Life presentation, Friends for Life is the biggest family conference all about diabetes in the US, possibly the world. And instead of having an in person conference this year, like everybody else, they're having a virtual conference. And so I decided, and boy, I thought this was a good idea that I would do my usual game show I usually do a game show presentation as one of my talks for them. But I would do Hollywood Squares because boy zoom just lends itself to Hollywood Squares, doesn't it? That's what I at least what I think of and I gotta tell you, I'm thrilled with how it came out. But I also got to tell you, I'm not sure I'll ever do it again. We had to get eight people I was the ninth you need like a tic tac toe board right for for the Hollywood Squares. The FFL-Wood squares excuse me, that's Friends for Life, FFL. So FFL-Wood squares and I decided to go big and I got people from all over the world, different time zones. Day here night here. Early morning here, it was amazing. So huge credit to my cast of characters. Thank you to the contestants. I cannot wait to share it with you. The conference itself is mid month. If you've signed up for that you'll see it then. And then we'll drop it as a video in a podcast episode. Shortly after that. That's one of the really fun things that I get to do, right. I mean, you have an idea you get to try it. You see if it's a disaster, you see if it's fun, but you know, it's it's never boring, that's for sure. Okay, interviews coming up in just a moment with Ben Tzeel and Morgan Panzirer, but first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop. One Drop is diabetes management for the 21st century. One Drop was designed by people with diabetes for people with diabetes. One Drops glucose meter looks nothing like a medical device. It's sleek, compact, and seamlessly integrates with the award winning One Drop mobile app, sync all your other health apps to One Drop to keep track of the big picture and easily see health trends. And with a One Drop subscription you get unlimited test strips and lancets delivered right to your door every One Drop plan. Also in access to your own certified diabetes coach have questions but don't feel like waiting for your next doctor visit your personal coach is always there to help go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the One Drop logo to learn more. Unusual show this week and that I have two guests two separate interviews. And if you're here only for one or the other, that is fine. I can tell you that Morgan's interview starts about 22 minutes from now, so you won't hurt my feelings if you skip ahead. But I really think you'll like my first guest, Ben Tzeel. we first talked to him last year. He's a dietician, he's a strength coach. And Ben says eating and living with diabetes should not be boring or feel like punishment. We had a fun conversation about what that really means good intentions about eating well, and exercising and quarantine and more. Here's my talk with Ben Tzeel. Hey, Ben, it's good to talk to you again. Thanks for coming on.   Ben Tzeel  4:53 I'm just so thankful to be here. And it's so awesome. It's just amazing. Thank you.   Stacey Simms  4:58 You're really well. We'll see about But   Ben Tzeel  5:02 it's human. It's human interaction right now we don't have much of that these days do it.   Stacey Simms  5:06 Well, let's start talking about that. I mean, how have you been living since the stay at home orders? What's your life been like?   Ben Tzeel  5:13 I just don't go anywhere. I've been living in Florida, not nothing against Florida, but I feel like the cases go down and then the cases go up. And that's just what you hear about everywhere. And I just figure it's just not something I'd rather really want to deal with if that makes any sense. Do you live alone? I actually live with my girlfriend and fortunately for me, she's willing to do a lot of the grocery shopping and a lot of the day to day stuff at the pharmacy but honestly, we just don't go anywhere because she works in the ICU as a pharmacist and she sees all this stuff firsthand. Wow.   Stacey Simms  5:44 That's gonna be interesting job to have right now.   Unknown Speaker  5:47 Oh, yes.   Stacey Simms  5:49 Assuming that you've been doing this since mid March, yo, how's your health? How are you keeping up because you're pretty intense person when it comes to fitness?   Ben Tzeel  5:58 Yeah, I definitely like to thanks. So it's something where I've had to get creative. I've had to step outside of my comfort zone and really look at what I have and say, Okay, what can I do with what I currently have? And slowly, you can assemble a little mini gym at home and things like that. But I've really, really taken time and effort to focus on what can I do instead of, well, this is out of my control, I guess my fitness is gonna go away. I guess all of my other habits that I've worked so hard to develop are gonna just fall by the wayside?   Stacey Simms  6:26 Well, I think for some of us, those things, the second part, those things have happened, right? Because it is hard to maintain a routine It is hard to, you know, especially when, and I'm gonna get personal here for people like me, you know, you're a strength and conditioning coach, you know, this is what you do. I'm a suburban mom who walks her dog and goes to the gym a couple of days a week. And it's been really easy for me to fall out of those good habits over the last couple of months. You know, do you have any advice? If people are listening and thinking, Well, I haven't kept up so it's too late now.   Ben Tzeel  6:56 Well, it's first one of those things is to your point where you mentioned It's too late. Now, it's never too late to actually start and say, I'm gonna look back and say, This is what I did before, this is what I was doing. And maybe I won't be at that same point right now, because I have let myself fall off because I have fallen out of this routine. But what is something I can do today that small to just build a little bit of momentum. And as you build that you take another baby step, another baby step, and suddenly, you're taking strides to get back to where you were. So if you start from that mindset, and that point, just make that tiny little shift, you end up in a situation where suddenly three, four weeks from now, you're thinking, wow, I'm already almost back to where I was. Because your muscle does have a memory, it is going to remember where you were. And as long as you put in those same habits you previously had, you should be totally fine.   Stacey Simms  7:45 It's funny when you talk about, you know, getting back into routine because I think at the beginning of this, I don't know if this happened to you, me and my daughter, and I think a lot of people and my daughter came home from college, and we said All right, we're going to do yoga on YouTube. We're going to walk the dog like five miles every day, and we're gonna get really, you know, in great shape, we have a stationary bike, and we're going to do all these bikes and all these rides and, and we really haven't done much of it at all after those first couple of weeks, and I've seen some really funny parody videos on that and a lot of people who have felt this way, but I want to flip that around and say you have taken as you said, You've gotten creative in your house, can you tell us a little bit of some of the things you've done to make your your home gym, I'm assuming that you didn't run out and buy a whole bunch of, you know, gym radio equipment?   Ben Tzeel  8:29 No, I was fortunate that I my parents don't live too far away. And I had a bunch of dumbbells and a bunch of things from my youth that I was able to pick up. But beyond that, I mean, I was pretty much in the same situation that everybody else was where I had a few resistance bands and a few dumbbells and a few little things and had to start realizing. All right, well, I want to keep my insulin sensitivity good. I want to stay on this track of that I've been working so hard to be on what can I do. And so maybe that requires you sitting down and saying Alright, I'm going to restructure my workouts, I'm going to tell myself maybe I was doing four days a week before an upper body and lower body, you can still do that. But you may have to adapt. Instead of using a cable, you may have to use a band instead of using like a barbell or instead of using a heavier weight, you might have to go more reps at a lighter weight, or incorporate pauses or incorporate other bodyweight movements that can be just as challenging. And honestly, the first few weeks of the quarantine, stay at home, whatever you want to call it. I actually felt like I was more sore than when I was in the gym because I had to push harder.   Stacey Simms  9:34 You've mentioned your blood sugar several times you've lived with type one you were diagnosed when you were a kid. I've heard two schools of thought here over the last couple of months. One is you know, my blood sugar's are all over the place. I'm stressed out I'm so worried and you know, things are crazy. And then the other side of the coin is my blood sugar's have never been steadier. You know, I'm not going anywhere. I'm not eating restaurant food, where do you fall in on that?   Ben Tzeel  9:56 I would probably fall. That's it. I mean, I'll Honestly, it's a good question because I see it a lot from the first perspective. So I feel like I then kind of translate that to me. But it's actually my numbers have been in better control since this all began. Because there haven't been as many extraneous factors. I'm not going places. There's lots of unknown variables introduced. But I just I feel for a lot of the people that are in the first situation because there is that lack of routine and that lack of structure. And while everybody says, Oh, I, I wish I could be home more, I wish I didn't go to my job. Taking that structure out of the picture can really make it difficult to stick to that exercise program really stick to the food and the nutrition that's been making you feel good with good blood sugars, and you ultimately fall off that path. And when you do your blood sugar's kind of take over everything else. And during a time where there are no sports, there's not lots of distractions, there's no big gatherings, there's no concerts, your blood sugar's can literally become the one thing that you hone in on and focus on way too hard.   Stacey Simms  10:55 That's funny because I thought you were gonna say there at the end that you can really you can focus on And really make a great difference. But you said you focus on and you know, it can it can not be a great thing. Can you expand on that last thought?   Ben Tzeel  11:08 Sure. And I mean, of course, I can tell you it, there's ways to get around it. But a lot of people what will happen is, I mean, think about it like because there aren't tons of social things to be doing. And there's not tons of activities and tons of distractions, you start to look at the few distractions you have in your life. And one of them would be, I wouldn't call diabetes, a distraction, but it's one of the big prominent parts of your life if you have it. And it just starts to become a bigger and bigger and bigger thing that you just the more you focus on it, the more it expands and the bigger role it can take in your life. So I've watched a lot of people people I've worked with people I've interacted with on social media, that they end up in a situation where their blood sugar's just take over their entire existence where they're looking at their decks calm every five minutes, wondering what's going to happen and sometimes that leads to great results, but other times, it just drives people crazy. He drives up their stress level and they get into this loop of frustration. Oh, my blood sugar's high. Oh, I'm a failure and they go down the spiral that is very counterproductive in terms of living like a really as free of a life as possible to do right now.   Stacey Simms  12:14 Yeah, I would also echo that for parents as you were listening. I think it's super easy. And I found myself doing this too, with Benny home a lot more. It's easy to focus on our kids blood sugar's more, right? They're not going anywhere. They're not go to the movies, they're not hanging out with friends. And it's easier to make that a bigger focus than it needs to be. So I'm kind of listening to this and taking it to heart. But you know, one of the things you're really known for in social media is these these crazy foods, right? We talked about this last time when you were on, you know, giant donut, big meals and stuff. And I'm curious if there's, you know, we often figure especially newly diagnosed, we often find out that we love restaurant food because it's full of hidden fats and sugars and you know, salt and butter and all those delicious things that We love and that's what makes restaurant food so good. But it's kind of hard to bolus for that stuff. Are you finding it easier? I mean anything on that in terms of home cooking, which I'm so sick of Ben, I am so tired of cooking. And my husband helps if he cooks too, so I'm just sick of it.   Ben Tzeel  13:13 Well, I can't blame you for being sick of home cooking because it gets to a point where I'm probably three months or so from having had something from the outside. And it's I'm just craving something   Stacey Simms  13:26 brought in a meal. You haven't brought anything in.   Ben Tzeel  13:28 I just maybe I'm paranoid, but I just I just would rather be like, you know what, at least I know, I'm dealing with the prep and I'm dealing with everything else. And when this starts to settle down, then I'll start to venture out and have all of the fun food again. Not that I haven't had fun. Trust me. You can make many fun things at your house. I know what you're making.   Stacey Simms  13:45 Yeah, no, I have friends who haven't brought any food in. I mean, we're not in that camp, obviously. But I know a few people who've done that   Ben Tzeel  13:51 Emilio wants me to really bad so we're working on it. We're in a negotiation right now. But to your point, I would say when you know All of the factors within what you're eating. So of course, you know that you've prepped it, you know, what you've put into it, you know, everything and everything. And there's no variables, there's no question marks. And we're not talking about the COVID part, but just about the actual composition of the food itself, then it's a lot easier to bolus for because you have all the answers. You have all the math right there when someone else creates something, even if it's something that, you know, Oh, I know, this is a bacon double cheeseburger, and I know I've had them before. And this is what happens. There's some sort of variability because that part of it is out of your control. And that lack of control can be difficult to account for granted. There's ways to take it in to consideration and be able to say, all right, this is what I'm going to do based on experience based on other knowledge, like put numbers and experience together and make a very educated decision and dose and do amazing with it. But just that little factor of there's other stuff in here there is that hidden fat you were describing. There's sometimes things are cooked in, in oils we don't know about there's sugar that might got thrown in there that you don't know. And then you end up eating some foods like that and you get frustrated you you have chicken alfredo and your blood sugar goes up to 320 for the next seven hours, no matter what you do no matter what you dose and you're just full of frustration the whole time.   Stacey Simms  15:14 So you work with a lot of people with type one and your background is nutrition. You have a master's degree, you're registered dietitian. I'm curious what the first change you urge people to make when they come to I know not everybody's the same. But you know, one of the questions maybe that you ask,   Ben Tzeel  15:30 I guess, coming from me, the first things I want to know is where people are starting out right now. Like, what are you eating? and kind of just getting you aware of what are you eating because as evidenced during this time, and this time, please put a magnifying glass on it more than anything else. But people kind of just go through the motions. They don't pay as much attention to, oh, I'm eating X, Y and Z. They just say oh, I'm gonna make whatever I can grab and I'm just gonna go for it and eat and then continue and a lot of people can't tell you what they ate for lunch yesterday. So my first goal is get them really aware, what are you eating? Start to kind of get a sense of it and then get them understanding. Are you making the meals complete? Are you getting your proteins, your fiber, your veggies? Are you getting them to the point where you're getting the nutrients that you need for both the body composition that you want, but also for the blood sugar control, because once you have the blood sugars and control, the body comes a lot faster, whether you want to lose weight or get strong. And once the blood sugars are controlled, you can do all the things in life that you really want to be doing.   Stacey Simms  16:30 I'm always worried about talking about diets, right? Because people want to lose weight, they go on a diet, people try all sorts of different things. We've talked about this in the past to me low carb, high carb, whatever it is, what do you find works overall, in general, for the people that you work with.   Ben Tzeel  16:45 For the people that I work with. I've had people on 400 grams of carbs, I've had people on 40 grams of carbs. The most important factors that I've noticed are getting enough protein into your life and I know a lot of people are concerned Oh protein is going to Your kidneys. But all the research, if you dig into it has shown that a higher protein diet is actually advantageous to the kidneys. I'm not saying you need to eat like five chickens a day, but at the same time, a substantial amount of protein. I would also say making sure you do get the fiber. That's why I tried to hit on those big three the protein, the fiber than the veggies, the fiber is going to be important whether you get that from veggies and fruit or whether you do get that from some grains. Some people do well on a decent amount of carbs. Again, it's that carb side of it is preference and everyone in diabetes is so fixated on it, when I can't stress enough where people that I've worked with are super successful on all levels of carbs, but having the protein, having the fiber, having enough of the veggies, those three things and then the other thing would be the 9010 rule. And that would be something where I would I don't know if it's actually a rule I may have made it up but it's 90% of the time you're eating on point you know what you're doing, you're making quality choices and that other 10% of the time you're enjoying the sunset You're enjoying the desserts, you're enjoying the finer things that life has to offer. Because life is too short to not enjoy food like that. And the last thing you want is you're constantly eating air quotes healthy. And now you're feeling deprived when you see all your friends eating these other things. And as long as you have a strategy on how to dose for it, so your blood sugar is going to be ultimately good. There's no reason to deprive yourself of having that and so many people are living limited in that scope of I can't have that because I have diabetes, that food scares me. This is awful. Like, I wish I could have that and you can have that. But allowing yourself that wiggle room of 10% that is usually enough to say hey, I'm gonna get the results I'm putting into a effort 90% of the time to get the blood sugar's get the body but then the other time I can enjoy everything.   Unknown Speaker  18:50 What's your big favorite 10% fool?   Ben Tzeel  18:53 That's Oh, that's a loaded question. I was gonna say there's a restaurant here called dance and dance. And Tampa has these loaded nachos that are so good. They're like a once every six month kind of thing, but they've got like the cheese and the pulled pork, and they've got the beans and they've got the ground beef and honestly, it's actually not a terrible meal in general but there's just so it's so calorie dense. That would be one cookie dough for sure would be one. The edible cookie dough not like cookie dough. That's raw eggs. And then Honestly, I have to say this but have you had cookie butter before? I have not had cookie pokey buttered so I love cookie. What is it cookie butter? It's I don't even know how to describe it. There's like this. I know the first time I had it was from Trader Joe's and then they have some everywhere apparently I didn't know it was a big thing. But it's literally like the butter form of cookie. It's like imagine peanut butter consistency but it tastes like a cookie and it's basically straight fat and straight sugar. But it's so good. Oh my God. That is my guilty pleasure. I will not lie. That's It's so good. That Great,   Stacey Simms  20:00 okay, he's got some advice. We've You know, we've gotten some insight into how you operate. I know you have a new program that you're working on, tell us what this is all about. How can people take part?   Ben Tzeel  20:11 Absolutely. So I have a program called blood sugar boss, because everybody wants to be a blood sugar boss, you want to be in control of your blood sugars and in control of your life, getting the body that you want, and literally living life without any kind of limits. And so the premise is, you're going through and restaurants become no big deal. You can walk into a restaurant by the end of this and point out what you want on the menu and say I want that and know how you're gonna dose for what your game plan is going to be. No questions asked, like the on the exercise side of things with respect to blood sugars going low constantly, that part's eliminated. You know, you go and exercise no matter what you're doing. We're eliminating the lows. we're eliminating the highest you can truly do what you want to do without having any concerns and actually focus on The exercise instead of Oh my god, what is my blood sugar going to do? Then of course talking about the food side of things to make sure that you know what choices need to go into that 90% what choices need to go to that 10% and when you do go in that 10% How to dose so you're not concerned? Oh, man, I'm going to be 300 for the next six hours. I know exactly what to do for that. I mean, we're going into travel when travels the thing again, you know, we're making sure that you go on a trip, you're like, Okay, instead of vacation being stressful, this is no big deal. We're hitting everything on all different kinds of angles. And by the end of it, you can walk away from it saying, I am in control, no situation will faze me and this is literally everything I need to know about diabetes, and I forgot one of the other big things were kick starting your metabolism up. So you're going to be able to be prepared to get stronger and lose weight. At the same time. I'm curious you you share a lot as I mentioned on inside on social media, and the other day, I saw you share a post where you were over 300 for a while, you know, you had I think it was at a Ben canula or something like that. Are you concerned that when you share something like that, right? Do you get feedback from people saying, how could you that's so dangerous? Or, you know, how could you let that happen? I'm curious what kind of feedback you get when you are that transparent, because, you know, we all know that's gonna happen, right? And I think if there's a lot of people out there that go on social media, and they act a certain type of way, and they say, Well, my blood sugar's are great all the time. And my numbers are always the decks combined, it's flat, and everything's awesome. And that's cool. You can share that. But that's just sharing the highlight reel of life. People are almost afraid to show the authentic side of the side of them that shows I'm human that I get that annulus to these things do happen. And so I feel like by showing that, it's like, Look, I'm not perfect, I've never been perfect, and there are people out there who I'm sure have had that situation happened to them. And if anything, I think it makes you more relatable. And it's okay to put yourself out and say, Hey, this does happen to everybody. Oh, my goodness, you can eat the same thing at the same time every single day and get a slightly different result. So, in that situation, it's part of life. Everybody goes through it.   Stacey Simms  23:15 Before I really let you go, I had to laugh when you said blood sugar boss. Because when Benny was was little, I mean, he was diagnosed before he was two. So we had to use all these, like really kid friendly ways of talking to him about diabetes. And I remember when he was about four or five years old, we started talking to him about like, being the boss of diabetes, you know, and little kids like to boss stuff around. Little kids have no control over anything, right? Everybody tells them what to do and where to sit and when to wake up, or when to go to bed and what to eat. So they have no choices, and sort of get to be the boss of something was really cool for him. And then the flip side of that was I had to say to him, Look, if you were if you're not the boss of diabetes, it's going to become the boss of you. And it really worked for a long time to help us teach him and but it's so funny. I forgot all about that. Until you mentioned The name of your program. So thanks for bringing that memory back up. It wasn't something that I had remembered. But it's so important because if you don't take control over it, you mean, you have no choice, it will take control of you.   Ben Tzeel  24:11 Absolutely. And that's, that's the whole goal here is like you said, you have to be the one that's saying, I am going to actively take control over this because otherwise your life is run by diabetes, whether you allow it because you allow it to you don't take back the power from it, and you don't say, this is my life, this is what I want to do. And if you don't actively make that decision, it's gonna make it for you. And you don't want someone else or something else. In this case, diabetes making that decision for you want to live life on your terms. So you need to make sure that you are a blood sugar boss.   Stacey Simms  24:43 I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for sharing the program all the best with it.   Ben Tzeel  24:47 Oh, thank you so much. I'm just glad to be able to help more people in our community and I'm just thankful for the opportunity to chat with you as always, that's always an awesome time on here.   Unknown Speaker  25:01 You're listening to diabetes connections   Unknown Speaker  25:03 with Stacey Simms   Stacey Simms  25:06 more information about Ben's program blood sugar boss in the show notes and I'll link up his Instagram account as well now I'm gonna have to go back and look now because I do get a kick out of the bonkers food that he posts like these big portions and you know wild desserts and things once in a while, but I'm thinking now he said that they had been eating at home and creating their own stuff since the stay at home order. And now I really want to take a look and see what they've been making because we've been cooking a ton I think just like everybody, right? But I haven't been baking or making desserts. My daughter I have an 18 year old daughter and she likes to bake and she's been making cookies and brownies and stuff like that, but I'm not getting creative when it comes to desserts. I like to eat desserts, but I'm not making at this point. I am barely making dinner. I am so sick of Okay. All right. Well, you know good problems to have, I suppose. The author of the book actually I can is our Tell me something good this week, but first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dexcom. And we've been using the Dexcom G6 since it came out two years ago now, and it's amazing. The G6 is now FDA permitted for no finger sticks for calibration and diabetes treatment decisions. You do that to our warmup and the number just pops up. I know it sounds funny if you're newer to Dexcom but we've been using it for seven years now. And when you're used to calibrating you know, and not getting that number automatically, it really does. It just seems so different. The G6 has longer sensor we're now 10 days and the new sensor applicator is so easy to use, but he does it all himself. Of course we love the alerts and alarms and we can set them however we want. If your glucose alerts and readings from the G6 do not match symptoms or expectations, use a blood glucose meter to make diabetes treatment decisions. To learn more, go to Diabetes, Connections comm and click on the Dexcom logo.   Morgan Panzirer is our Tell me something good this week she was diagnosed With type one when she was six years old, that's obviously not the good part. She is now 19, a college student who would like to become a pediatric endocrinologist. Now her sister also lives with type one. Morgan started writing the book that we're going to talk about here in middle school. It's called actually I can, Morgan was great to talk to you. She was very patient with my questions and my ignorance about equestrian sports. Here's my interview with Morgan Panzirer. Morgan, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with me. I'm really excited to hear the stories behind the book. Thanks for coming on.   Unknown Speaker  27:32 Yeah, of course. I'm so happy to be here.   Unknown Speaker  27:34 What gave you the idea to write this book?   Unknown Speaker  27:37 I started writing it in seventh grade for two main reasons. The first was I was fed up with all the misconceptions that people with type 1 diabetes hear every day, for example, Oh, you got diabetes, because you ate too much sugar things along those lines. So I decided that maybe if I could tell my story, I would be able to kind of change the way the general public views this disease. The second reason I wrote it was because I really wanted to empower others living with Type One Diabetes and show them. That doesn't have to be something that holds you back. Rather, you can use it as an opportunity to do whatever you want to do. So   Unknown Speaker  28:14 you started writing in middle school, but you were diagnosed at age six, much younger than that. Do you remember your day? Your diagnosis story?   Morgan Panzirer  28:21 Yes, I'll never forget. It is so clear in my mind. I had been drinking and peeing a lot. So my mom knew the signs of Type One Diabetes because she was a nutritionist. Yeah, so my mom knew the sign. So she decided to ask my pediatrician to test me just to humor her. She was sure it was nothing but she said, just test it anyway. So she did and a couple days later, my pediatrician called us I'll never forget exactly where we were in the car. And she said to my mom, I'm so sorry to tell you this, but Morgan does have type one diabetes, and my mom just immediately started crying. We were all shocked. We went to the Naomi berry Diabetes Center at Columbia the following day. And from there, it was just, let's get through this.   Stacey Simms  29:07 So your mother was a little bit familiar with it, but in being a nutritionist, but I can't imagine you knew at all who you're in for, and especially at age six,   Morgan Panzirer  29:15 no, I had no idea. And I vividly remember being in the car driving to New York City The following day, and saying to my parents, everything will be fine. As long as I don't need a shot. Little did I know, every day of my life, I was gonna have multiple needles among the finger sticks and other things. So my parents didn't really know how to explain it to me, and it was definitely a rude awakening for the next few days to come. When you started writing, did you share it with anybody else? Was it just for you at the time? Yes, it was just for me at the time. No one. I didn't really tell anyone about it. No one really knew that I was doing it at all. I was very private about it. But as the years went on, I eventually decided to tell my parents and they were like, you are What? So it was kind of fun. It was. It was a long process. But yeah, the beginning it was definitely just a very personal thing for me. And then your younger sister was diagnosed as well. What was that? Like? How old was she? How old were you at the time. So she was 13 when she was diagnosed, she's now 16. So I was 16 when she was diagnosed, and that just broke my heart because I had had diabetes at that point for 10 years. So I totally knew what it was like, and it made me think I would not wish it on anyone, especially someone in my own family. So to see her kind of struggle with it, and because she was diagnosed a lot older, I think it was hard for her to kind of get through it because she knew and remembered and understood what life was like prior. And now the fact that you have to make put so much thought into eating an apple, I think really kind of threw her for a loop, but I was really happy that I was there and could kind of show her the ropes and show her that this doesn't have to be the end It won't stop her. She doesn't want it too.   Stacey Simms  31:02 It sounds like you have a really good relationship with your sister. But you know, it's gotta be hard to you know your sister. So I don't want to make it like it was a perfect relationship, but due to diabetes in some way for you closer, I mean, I kind of hate that because it's a cliche, but you to share it and experience that nobody else in your family could really understand in the way you were going through it.   Morgan Panzirer  31:21 Yeah, it did. I would definitely say that it brought us closer. I mean, we always had a great relationship growing up. I mean, she was the only other girl in the house besides my mom. So we did everything together anyway. And we did have a really good relationship. But this definitely was something that I could share with her and I couldn't really relate to something like that with anyone else. So I think we, I mean, we don't talk about it a ton, but it is something that if I'm having a terrible day, I'm like, Oh, this stays the worst. And she's like, Yeah, I know what you mean. So I think in that way, it definitely makes it easier for sure.   Unknown Speaker  31:57 Okay, so you grew up in a household where After your diagnosis, your parents jumped in with both feet for advocacy. And they jumped in in a way that is unique because your dad is a trustee of the Helmsley trust, which is a as you listen, if you're not familiar, just an unbelievable funder of so much Diabetes Research and so many diabetes advocacy causes and effect. We had your dad on the show last year, but he is a very passionate person, as you know, Morgan, where he was really talking about the need for better education when people get great diabetes devices. And you know, trying to help in that respect. What was it like to know that what happened to you affected what your parents did with their lives? I mean, there's put so much time and energy into this cause,   Morgan Panzirer  32:39 oh my gosh, yeah, it was unbelievable. I mean, my dad became a trustee shortly after my diagnosis. So again, at six years old, I had no idea what that meant. But as I grew up and saw the impact he's having on this community and everyone with this disease, I'm so grateful that he went this way because I really do believe that he's making enormous differences in this community. I've already seen tons of new technologies that have come out, in part, thanks to his funding. So I'm so grateful. And my mom actually has she's a big runner. So she's run numerous half marathons and marathons with jdrf to raise money. So the fact that they're just all in for me and my sister is, there's no words to describe it. It's unbelievable. You've been able to do a lot of things yourself. You were a children's Congress with jdrf. That was in 2009. So how old were you when you did children's Congress? I was eight when I when was that something that was meaningful to you? Yeah, it was a really monumental event, I think because it really marked the beginning of my advocacy. And especially being that little I didn't really understand that I could make a difference prior to this. But when I got there and saw oh my gosh, all these kids are going through the same thing I'm going through and look at this difference we're making on a national level, I think it really showed me that I did have the ability to make a change if I wanted to, and if I set my mind to it. So it was definitely a big step for me and understanding that I had the ability to make a big change for everyone with this disease. And it definitely marks the beginning of my advocacy, as I mentioned prior.   Unknown Speaker  34:19 So tell me about advocacy for an eight year old. I know because I just people listening are kind of thinking like, well, what else? You know, there's children's Congress vote what really can an eight year old do?   Morgan Panzirer  34:27 It was crazy because we're at Children's Congress. We're talking to our senators. I didn't even know what a senator was. I was like, Who are you? Like, you seem really important, but I don't know what you do. Um, but it was really just a place for me to learn and understand and it opened a bunch of doors for not necessarily when I was eight years old still, but when I was older, it really just allowed me to understand, okay, I can do this and I can make a change and talk to these super important scary people. If I want to so I wouldn't say necessarily started my advocacy at eight years old, but it definitely opened that door and set that path or the years coming up.   Stacey Simms  35:10 So in the book, actually, I can you mentioned, you know, sugar and misconceptions.   Morgan Panzirer  35:15 Are there actually, as I say, actually, are there questions that that really have followed you that you would answer? Actually, I can. Oh, there's so many. It's funny, you should say that. Because one of the chapters towards the end of the book actually has a bunch of things that I've heard people say prior about this. And my answer to each of them is actually I can so that's really funny. You should bring that up. So yeah, it's all surrounding kind of the sugar aspect. And that always drove me crazy. Like, oh, you Sorry, you can't have this ice pop. It's not sugar free. And to that, I would say, Actually, I can. So it's really funny that you should bring that up.   Stacey Simms  35:53 Well, I mean, it's something that I think many people with diabetes experience over and over again to the point where you have to decide Are you going to be annoyed and be sarcastic? Or say nothing? Or am I going to be annoyed and continue to educate? Right and that second one, even just as a parent of a child with type one, I try to choose the second one as often as I can, but it really does wear on you. So when I saw the name of your book, I was like, totally can relate.   Morgan Panzirer  36:19 Yeah.   Unknown Speaker  36:20 And you ride correct. That's your sport is, is I'm gonna say it incorrectly as horseback riding.   Morgan Panzirer  36:26 Yes, that is my sport. How do I say that? What's the real sport? equestrian sports? Thank you,   Unknown Speaker  36:33 bro.   Unknown Speaker  36:35 I've not talked to somebody with type one who is you know, involved in equestrian sports. Can you tell us a little bit about how you go about doing that? I mean, because obviously, there's got to be equipment, requirements of the sport and concerns about a pump and a CGM. So   Morgan Panzirer  36:50 what do you do? Absolutely. So I started writing actually right after my diagnosis, and at the beginning, it was fairly easy to manage my blood sugar's Because I was young and just doing beginner things, but as I got older and obviously I started wearing a CGM a little later I got a little more difficult because I was riding for longer I was doing more difficult things. So it became a game of trial and error to kind of find the balance of Okay, I need to cut back my Bazell this this much time prior to getting on and then afterwards, I should sip on a Gatorade. So it was a big game of trial and error that definitely got frustrating at times. But then the whole other battle was at horse shows because when you horse show, you're not allowed to have a phone or any sort of electronic device on you. So I'll never forget there was this one show I was competing in and I go in and I do my course. So I do the jumpers for anyone that knows. So I go in, I jump my course and I come out and the judge walkie talkie over to the end gate where you enter the ring and said she has to be disqualified because she has a phone on her and I was like I don't Promise you like, I'll show it to you. It's not a phone. So they ended up being understanding but after that I had to really be conscientious about prior to stepping in the ring, having the person that was managing the in gate radio over to the judge and say she's that does not have a phone. She's wearing an insulin pump. So that was something I found really interesting. Um, but yeah, it was it's definitely an interesting sport to have type one and do for sure. Well,   Stacey Simms  38:28 you know, and obviously, you had to educate them and now hopefully the next time somebody comes through that way, they would know that a pump isn't a phone, but I'm curious too, you know, obviously writing horse is not driving a car, but it is one of the few sports where you're, you're not alone, right you have to stretch but work with me here. In a way you're you know, you're controlling the horse you're in charge, you have to be in your you have to have good enough diabetes control, that you know, if you're going low, you can Have you could have an accident you could get seriously injured for sure. Yeah. I mean, that's got to be something that I know your parents would be worried about. But as an athlete, it's it's a little bit more consequential in a way than like my son. He's played every kind of sport but if he goes low and basketball, he's probably you know, he's just gonna get himself off the court. He's he's not taking a horse   Morgan Panzirer  39:21 Yeah, it's, it's interesting because there have definitely been times where I'm so invested in riding and what I'm doing that I don't even realize how low I am. So I really have to be careful and always be watching I wear my Apple Watch which is a huge help because I just clicked the Dexcom app and my blood sugar pops right up. So that's made it a lot easier but as you said, there's definitely an added component of stress because if something happens to me, I'm either a gonna fall off and get seriously hurt or be by horses going to be running around loose in the ring. So   aren't really ideal circumstances. For sure,   Stacey Simms  40:00 my apologies to you and anyone listening who is familiar with equestrian sports hearing me painfully make my way through trying to describe. But I appreciate it. Obviously, your parents have read the book, and they must be so proud of you. But was there anything in there that you thought? I don't know if I want my parents to read this? Are you? I mean, I know it's nothing terrible. But you know, in terms of, I think sometimes the people I've talked to with type one, are worried that they're going to make their parents worry more, even as adults, they just don't want their parents to worry. And I was curious if that went through your head at all, as you were releasing this book?   Morgan Panzirer  40:35 Yeah, I mean, there's one chapter in particular that comes to mind where I'm just very raw about my emotions. And at home, I'm not someone who's like that. I'm very quiet. And if something's bothering me, I'll go to my room and deal with it there. So I think putting that all out on paper and having that kind of out to the world and then have my parents read it. I don't want to say I was hesitant, but it was it was interesting because I didn't really know how they were going to react to me being like, Oh, I broke down into tears because they don't usually see me do that very often. So I was, I was a little scared as to what they would think like, Oh, no, is she like crazy at our room? Like what is she doing all the time, but I think they just they were very understanding like, if this is how you want to deal with it, this is how you deal with it. You do whatever you need to do.   Stacey Simms  41:25 When I was looking it up on Amazon earlier, I laughed because you know, Amazon has that if you bought this, you might buy that or, you know, bought and there was my book, there was the world's worst diabetes mom and a bunch of other great diabetes books too. But I laughed because I guess with the teenager in the parenting, maybe they put it together. You know, the world's worst diabetes mom is not about really being a terrible parent. It's about the insecurities that we as parents have when we make mistakes with our kids. I'm curious for you. It sounds like your parents gave you an awful lot of independence and had a lot of confidence in you and I Assume your sister as well. Any message for parents of kids with type one who think we're just messing up and we're the worst?   Morgan Panzirer  42:07 You're not the worst, I can start by saying that. I think I would say try to give your child as much independence as possible without making it unsafe. My parents, as you said, gave me a ton of independence. And I think it worked really well for me, but it's also really different. So what works for me may not work for my sister. So you kind of have to be willing to cater to your child's needs and what you think will suit them best. But independence for me was key.   Stacey Simms  42:36 And then I'll flip it around and say, okay, you're you're a college student. Now you're you're not you know, you're not quite done with being a teenager, but the high school experience is behind you. Any advice for teenagers? type one?   Morgan Panzirer  42:47 Yeah, I would say teenage years are tough just because your peers are naturally a lot more judgmental than they are when they're adults. Do what you do. Don't hide anything. If they want to be jerks about it. Let them be jerks about it. That's their problem. And just don't let them get the best of you because I was bullied by freshman year of high school for wearing a CGM on my leg and was shorts on and things like that. So I would just say, don't let the haters hate who cares, they can do what they want.   Unknown Speaker  43:18 And for you now, what are you studying? Did I read you want to be an endocrinologist?   Morgan Panzirer  43:22 Yes, I am studying biology in Spanish on a pre med track. And I'm hoping to go to medical school for pediatric endocrinology. Did you have an endocrinologist growing up that inspired you? When did you realize you want to do something like this? It's funny, it was kind of the opposite. Hopefully, he's not listening right now. He wasn't bad by any means. But I just thought it would be really cool if I had an endocrinologist who also has type one who can relate to what I'm going through and make me feel like I'm not alone. So if I want that from my endocrinologist, I want to be able to give that to others. So I'm hoping that eventually, if I make it through med school, I'll be able to give that experience to younger children who are also fighting type one. That's great. And then someday you could do the next book, which is actually you can Exactly.   Stacey Simms  44:18 Work it. Thank you so much for talking with me. often don't hear about those teen years and growing up with type one until people are adults, so I can't thank you enough for sharing your story. I really wish you the very best with this.   Morgan Panzirer  44:28 Of course, thank you so much for having me.   Stacey Simms  44:33 I will link up more information about Morgan's book, just go to Diabetes connections.com click on the episode homepage. As usual, there's also a episode transcription. I started doing that in January of 2020 of this year, we're slowly going back the catalog I'll probably put the transcripts in for past shows as well. But you know, there's a lot of shows we're up to episode This is 310 if you're keeping track so I'm doing the best I can with transcriptions but 2020 and going forward getting great feedback on that. And thank you, I really appreciate hearing from you. If there's something that you really like or don't like with the show, and the transcriptions have been a big hit, people listen to the show people read the show, and some people listen while they read the show. However, I can serve you That is what I'm here for. And I'm kind of laughing. But really, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to add the transcriptions. I think there's some excellent information. It's not about me, it's about the information and if you can read it, I know some people just prefer that. So very cool. Thanks again. And, you know, when you go to Amazon, and you see, it just makes me laugh, right? The you see Morgan's book with my book. I don't know why it makes me laugh. I mean, I'm a serious author now. But I do get a kick out of serious author (laughs). I do get a kick out of seeing people I know or have met, along with my book. It's just really a lot of fun. I don't know. Maybe it's silly, but I really get a kick out of it. All right, great month of shows coming up. I'm very excited about July because we're going to be talking about selecting an insulin pump, not which pump is best, but how do you select one that's like the number one Question all these Facebook groups? What pumps should I get? What pumps Should I get my kid? We're also gonna be talking about pancreas transplant. I've wanted to talk to somebody who had a pancreas transplant for years and years because you hear you know how difficult it is or how does it even happen. And so we've done that and I'm really thrilled to share that interview with you in the coming weeks. And of course, the fiscal would squares. That chaotic show will be out soon as well. So lots of good stuff coming up. More on the way. Thank you to my editor, chunky tennis solutions. And thank you so much for listening. I'm Stacey Simms. I'll see you back here next week. Until then, kind to yourself.   Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms media. All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged   Transcribed by https://otter.ai

- Jason Seiden That meant that I would gladly, if I could be the last person ever lose a child. I would I would take that on, if I could, to say it like that's how horrible it is that I don't ever want anybody else to feel it. And so other folks actually telling me that they're happy and that they're like, I think they would feel like I would feel worse, like rubbing it in.   - Jason Seiden But actually, no, you know, that's it's the opposite. Like live your life. And tell me you've opened up your eyes and you're stepping into it and you're aware of the discomfort and you're aware about the hard choices you're making and you're doing it and you're celebrating those wins because they're so few and far between. Those were, the those were the best things.   INTRO   Jason Seiden is joining me today to talk about his daughter Elle.  Elle was passionate about social justice causes, possessed of a sardonic humor.  She was insightful and creative…and she is dead.  She committed suicide after suffering from debilitating pain due to CRPS (complex regional pain syndrome) diagnosis and committed suicide at fifteen years old.    What does it mean to honor her legacy, to remember her in all her fullness?  What does it mean as a father to live a life that encompasses such a profound loss but is not ultimately defined by that pain?  Jason is articulate, reflective, and honest in this powerful conversation.    Before we begin, I’d like to thank our sponsors.  First, we are sponsored by FullStack PEO.  Providing full-service solutions for entrepreneurs and small business, FullStack manages the details so you can get back to doing what you do best, running your business.  We are also sponsored by Handle with Care HR Solutions, with engaging, interactive training ans coaching sessions, we empower you to give meaningful support to your people as they go through disruptive life events.    Back to our conversation.  First, as a sidenote, Jason was sitting outside during the first part of our conversation due to water damage and clean up crews in his house…and you might hear the birds singing under some of his thoughts.   In the months after my daughter, Mercy, died, someone reflected that there wasn’t a word in the English language for a parent who has a child die.  If your spouse dies, you are a widow.  If your parent dies, you are an orphan.  It is almost like the death of a child feels so against the nature of things that language itself can’t encompass the loss.    Jason and I began our conversation talking about the difficulty of talking about the death of a child.  Jason has founded and sold businesses, he is a gifted teacher, trainer and communicator.  He recalled putting together a presentation on the fly.   So. Yeah. So I a 19 and a half minute clip. And I lost the teleprompter halfway through. And still in one take was done in less than 20 minutes.   - Jason Seiden And then my partner at the time spent three hours trying to record the same 20 minute clip. Yep. This is hard. They said this is this is you know, I'm speaking from a much different place and I'm surprised at how difficult it is.   - Liesel Mertes One person's journey is not anyone else's. But I remember specifically in that the aftermath of my daughter Mercy dying. It felt so in. I mean, there's so many things that make it feel de-centered. And but for me, like if there's anything that I traffic in and feel comfortable in the world, it's words like it's it's been able to communicate. Similarly, you know, I have my own stories of like know what? Like I feel adept in that realm.   - Liesel Mertes And to come to a place where it's like I. I feel. It just feels different. And it felt it felt like it it have done a skill set, that it was like I'm normally so comfortable doing this.   - Liesel Mertes How could even this feel altered? Well, you're aspects of that.   - Jason Seiden And I know you well, I want to talk about the journey since losing Elle. But I think this is this is actually a great opener because it's it's true. I've journaled my entire life. I've written my entire life. I've written books. I have novel length stories that you'll never see the light of day written. And when when I wrote after her passing, I went back to read some of those journals. And some of them are very clear, like, this is a man who's in pain and who's articulate about it.   - Jason Seiden And then there's other journal entries that are just noise. It's you read those you like. Oh, that's what it looks like. It's unintelligible. It's it's it's complete. It's just you. These are not sentences. These are not phrases. That makes sense. These are, this is raw stuff. And it's remarkable. And you kind of say to yourself, I'm good with words. I lived with a thesaurus, I'm specific with them. And if I'm struggling to find just even the basics, how is everybody else going to do?   - Jason Seiden Right. You know, we don't we don't step into things that are hard. We tend to avoid things that are hard. And this is this is the hardest. So I think most people avoid grief when possible. Certainly the kind of grief that we've had. And that just means, they're completely unprepared. I was entirely unprepared for what happened. And trust me, if I could have avoided it, I would have. It's a hell of a journey to be to find yourself in particular for the first time.   - Jason Seiden And then also you are surrounded by people who are equally as inarticulate to help.   - Liesel Mertes And that's you know, that gets to also the profoundly isolating nature of grief because to to communicate where you are, like it's hard enough to just know, like, you feel like you're throwing words against a wall. But to be able to be understood by another person and that can just feel so daunting. Like, I don't even know how I'm feeling. And now I've got to find some words to have, you know, what I'm feeling.   - Liesel Mertes And maybe it's just better to be alone. You know, it can be that retreat. And to just I don't even know.   - Jason Seiden Yeah, well, I think there's a, I think there's a lot of truth to that. If I go back, I still default. I bridge that problem with something that I started defaulting to the week Elle passed. So I lost my daughter a year and a half ago. Coming up on two years, actually. And she, she died of suicide. She had been very sick prior to that. And she was in intense pain. She had a condition called CRPS. complex regional pain syndrome.   - Jason Seiden And it's it's just it's nerve pain. And it's always on. It never stops. Nerve pain, like when the dentist hits the nerve in your tooth and you hit the ceiling. And she had it in both her legs treatments for years. Nothing was was helping. It was getting worse in certain circles. It's actually known as the suicide disease because it doesn't have the decency to kill you. But, yeah, it's it's close. You know, it's terminal.   - Jason Seiden Who can live with that pain or that amount of time? So there's others, too. It sounds awful, but there's this one benefit that I got, which was despite having lost her to suicide. I don't I don't wonder. Could I have done more? Was there you write like that. Mental health is invisible. And it's real, but it's invisible and it's it's difficult as a human to accept things you don't see without wondering, could I have had some sort of control over that?   - Jason Seiden And when it's physical and you can see it, it's a little bit easier to go. I couldn't control that. That was a thing. And it was a whole conversation we could have around mental health and how it needs to be in the same category. But for, for this, what I wanted to say was in those early days, the words that it was that were most easy for people to find were were those around how Elle died, what she died of, what her condition was prior.   - Jason Seiden And I very quickly found myself initially trapped by that. It put me in the past. It put me you know, I had, had this journey of trying to help her and in all kinds of stuff was going on. You can imagine the complexity of the dynamics of dealing with, by the way, not only a crippling disease, but the most misdiagnosed disease out there. Right. It just was so I didn't want to be in that space. And it kind of struck me one day to a lot of thinking and metaphors.   - Jason Seiden And I couldn't find the words myself, but I had this metaphor that sort of hit me. I'm talking about Elle in terms of CRPS would be like talking about MLK, Martin Luther King, in terms of gun rights, you know, or Anwar Sadat in terms of gun rights. It's like, yeah, these guys were assassinated. That's true. But they stood for something else. They lived for something else. What they lived for what they died of were totally different.   - Jason Seiden To make MLK the poster child of gun rights would be to lose his legacy as a civil rights leader. What a shame. You know, you kind of you know, you'd have to kind of look at him and go, OK, technically true, but we're not going to use him for that. Like, we're not gonna make him. And I don't mean to use him. Right. But we're not going to. That's just not going to be his legacy.   - Jason Seiden And with Elle, sorry, it was just it was the same thing. You know, she was a social warrior. She lived for stuff that she didn't die of. And so I found those words and I found it. Redirecting people really helped me control my narrative. And I still do that. I still use that today.   - Liesel Mertes And tell me a little bit more about her, about some of the things that made her distinctly her and those causes. And particularly if, you know, she's she's a she's a fully fledged person behind the memory I'd love to hear more.   - Jason Seiden Yeah, absolutely. And so very early on before she was born, I just had a feeling about Elle. And I've got I've got two daughters there and I've learned first on Elle. And it's just proven true with my other daughter as well, that as a parent, my job was just to get the stuff off the high shelf.   - Jason Seiden You know, these kids coming up, they're fully formed. They're they're, a bit like flowers. Right? Do they have to for all. They have to blossom. But the flowers in there.   - Jason Seiden Nothing I could do to change the raw material. And and, you know, so Elle was very special. She, she had a wicked sense of humor. Like, just even from a very, very like an impossibly young age. Understood sarcasm. I don't know if your grandparents on your side. I mean, she couldn't because she couldn't have been like more than a year old. And my grandparents would come and babysit her for more than once. She's understanding sarcasm. Yeah.   - Jason Seiden I changed the tone of my voice. And she doesn't laugh. I flip the words around. She looked like she only laughs when it's a deadpan opposite, you know? The description is deadpan and opposite of what's true. She is following sarcasm. And it just, it was why she was always very tapped in. She she just you know, she came to this world with knowledge that you look at her and. There's no way that that knowledge came from five years of existence on this planet.   - Jason Seiden It's just kind be living proof of something bigger.   - Jason Seiden  And she had a way of getting noticed. I'll tell you one story, which is just one of our segments. When the girls were maybe 7 years old, I took to sort of overnight count drops kids leave families rent cabins, and then have a dozen families in those camps all up in Sweetwater, skier No.12 things. They did a talent show and one girl after another is getting up and doing cartwheels and walkovers.   - Jason Seiden And they're up there for ten seconds. Let me run off the stage, get going.  Elle gets up there and start a cappella singing. Don't stop believing.   That's awesome.   - Jason Seiden And the camp director stops her, runs up to the stage. Wait, wait, wait, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. And I'll think something's. She turns on all the equipment plugs in her iPod, iPod, and let's Elle do the full five, five and a half minute song scene over Steve Perry. We're all downloading on our phones. The lighter apps are holding them up like a concert.   - Jason Seiden And that was Elle, you know, just just being able to put your finger on the gestalt start of the moment and own it. And it is remarkable. And so you're kind of one of the reasons why I don't like thinking of her when she was sick was all of that power. It's not just that it went away. It never went away. So, you know, somebody with that much kind of cosmic ability gets sick, real sick. It's just it's so wrong and so far away from what she works for, what she stood for.   - Jason Seiden She was always so zoned in. So you wanted this story. This is actually relevant to her legacy. So I do a lot of communications work at my house up with certain companies and also internal internal comms. Well, politics has a role in that. And there's an immediate negative connotation to politics that people have. And so to break it out, I would give people this moral dilemma. And, you know, I just let them sit with it where they realize, OK, I may not like politics, but they're real.   - Jason Seiden I can't escape this question. Damned if I do or damned if I don't. It's one of those kinds of things. And I posed it to Elle. She's 10 years old. And Liesel, I'm telling you. Maybe two adults out of hundreds. I posed this question to and Elle heard the question and she said, well, you know, the only way to win is to not play you both these actions. Horrible. It's just a you're just choosing which value you want to violate and which value you want to maintain.   - Jason Seiden That can't be true to yourself with either. You know, I think the outcomes once you're in that position. Like, oh, my God, she's 10. And she understood that. And here so, you know, so it's, it just it felt. It has always felt important to honor, you said, who she was. Things that made her unique.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah. Those are some remarkable memories of who she was and, yeah, what she brought the color and dynamics.   - Liesel Mertes I want to talk about, yeah, the journey after her death.   - Liesel Mertes I'm, I'm struck that even as you are carrying her legacy, you, you are also shaped by who you needed to become in the midst of watching her be sick.   - Liesel Mertes What were some of the things that you noted in yourself as a parent, at that time, that shaped you?   - Jason Seiden The things that I noted as a person and same things and as a person of. Life has to be lived and risks have to be taken. The only way to not make a mistake is to not play the game. And that's so you're just not safe as a as a parent. I'd always cited my job as kind of two parts, one part keeping my kids safe and two parts helping them unlock who they are and, you know, make the most of this world. And, you know, my daughter's gone. So a very, very fundamental way, I did not keep her safe.   - Jason Seiden We can have a very intellectual conversation, Did I control her getting ill. And, of course, like, you know what? No, of course not. But it's like you're never going to tell me. I will never be able to feel that as a parent because she's gone. I. So this the game, whatever, whatever that's I was making whatever balance I was trying to strike between keeping you safe in the world or the game with her. It was frozen.   - Jason Seiden Right. It's it's lockdown. There is no no more time on the clock. There's no hope. There's no tomorrow. There's nothing's going to change. And so they're validating that recognition that there is no safe there. There is no harm.   - Jason Seiden By the way, not only do you have to play the game and not only your mistakes be made, but there's consequences for those mistakes. People will be hurt when you make a mistake. I've had to I've had to come to grips with that both as a parent and as a human.   - Jason Seiden And it's, it's, you start to see the world a different way.   - Liesel Mertes What, what does, I'm struck by how profound and. Yeah. Awful. That feeling is because so much of what we get to do living in like a wealthy, affluent, you know, society is we don't have to feel unsafe in so many areas of life. And and to feel it at such a visceral level is horrible. When you say, you know, I've had to come to grips with that. What has that looked like for you?   - Jason Seiden I don't know. That's a powerful question. I'm not sure what it looks like, but I'll tell you, it feels like things. It feels like my life before was it's just been pulled to the extremes. And I'm not dealing with any emotions that were foreign to me. I'm just dealing with a lot more of them. So it's funny, I actually said, you know, here's this girl who introduced me to stretch my capacity for joy in one direction. And then the passion stretched my capacity for sorrowing another.   - Jason Seiden On some level, like how do you just not feel gratitude for somebody who gives you more life to live? And. It shows like that.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   - Jason Seiden You're constantly playing other people's emotions at life events and realities. You have to live your life. If you live boldly, you will. Other people will be hurt. And you have to be OK with that. I'm not saying you should be indiscriminate or not care. I'm just saying to be simultaneously OK, moving in the light, doing your best, try and take care of people and understanding you can't save everybody. In fact, the act of saving one person might cause somebody else to be hurt.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. And you feel it if it goes through an intellectual concept to something, you feel very deeply and constantly.   - Liesel Mertes Elle died. And you said it's been a year and a half.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. A little more coming up on two years.   - Liesel Mertes Okay. Still, when something horrible happens like that and even, you know, the. The journey of walking with an often misdiagnosed disease. All of those things. What were you finding that you, what were people offering you in the way of, like comfort or presence in that, you know, messy aftermath? That was really meaningful to you? Or even now, just things that you'd say, "Man like these people did it really well. They came alongside me and it mattered?"   - Jason Seiden It's for windchimes. So that's, that's Elle. They went off the top of our call and I just heard them.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. So. For so long, surprised at how much. I'm not somebody who asks for a lot of emotional support. Probably not dissimilar from a lot of men that way. But I was surprised at how much I actually needed it.  They were largely, I was really struck in the immediate aftermath at how supportive people were. It was absolutely incredible.   - Jason Seiden My professional colleagues are scattered all over the country, all over the world. And without my without my engagement, a few of them, Mark Stelzner, Lori Rudiment. Susan Strier.   - Jason Seiden I had friends who, you know, without without my help. I put up a page and tribute to Elle. She she died a couple of weeks before my birthday day. They promoted it for my birthday, a tribute to Elle and I just watched, I watched for  for twenty five thousand dollars get raised in a day in honor of my daughter for a small handful of charities. The Human Rights Campaign, chief amongst them. The United Colors Foundation, which helps LGBTQ homeless youth and Burning Land, which is a CRPS foundation. And it was it was absolutely incredible.   - Jason Seiden The next thing I know, the CRPS Foundation has a grant in its name that had been funded. HRC flew a flag in my daughter's honor, which I now have. It's it was astounding. So, in the immediate aftermath, how important, it was incredible,   - Jason Seiden As you can imagine. You know, as time goes on, everyone goes back to their lives. I've had a handful of people have continued to reach out. And it's so helpful. On the homefront. Everybody here has been incredibly helpful.   - Liesel Mertes What has that continuing to reach out looked like?   - Jason Seiden Literally just a check in and a thinking of you. That is all it takes.   - Liesel Mertes I think sometimes people fear that because they think out of the person doesn't want to talk. Or what if it brings up bad memories? Maybe I just won't do that. From your experience, how would you speak into like that, that cycle of second guessing that people can have as they should. I reach out and I'm out. What if they don't want to talk   - Jason Seiden I'd go back to what I was saying before? You have to live your life. You might make mistakes. Go make the damn mistake. Engage and you know. OK. So I'll tell you, the waffling shows up. And from my perspective, as the one going through this, It shows up and I can see it a mile away and I end up in a position then of having to take care of the people who are reaching out to me. Sure. I know it's fairly common. And, you know, and you do a great sweat.   - Jason Seiden I mean, like, this is such a horrible thing. I get it. We don't spend time with this if we don't have to. I'll assume it happens to you or something you're close to. You don't have to. Yes. So the, the, the fact that people are unprepared for it, I'm not surprised. The most helpful thing, we just when people reach out.   - Jason Seiden Actually, the most helpful thing is when people would reach out and say, I'm thinking of you. I just had a lovely time with my family. Oh, great day. And I was thinking of you and I was thinking about. And I gave my kids an extra hug and I made sure I didn't take it for granted. That made me happy.   - Jason Seiden And it's, it's so funny with these people would reach out and, I can't imagine what you're going through. And I always look at them and be like, why would you take one moment of your life and try to imagine what I'm going through? But yet we all know it's horrible. Don't waste your time. Just write like it's horrible. Check the box pass, you know. You know, it's a kids with, you know. This is gross. Taste it. No, no, no. Not to me.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. It's like that. Except with consequence, you know. No. Right.   - Jason Seiden I actually loved when people would tell me that, you know, they were thinking of me and they weren't taking the life for granted as a result because that meant that Elle counted.   - Jason Seiden That meant that I would gladly, if I could be the last person ever lose a child. I would I would take that on, if I could, to say it like that's how horrible it is that I don't ever want anybody else to feel it. And so other folks actually telling me that they're happy and that they're like, I think they would feel like I would feel worse, like rubbing it in.   - Jason Seiden But actually, no, you know, that's it's the opposite. Like live your life. And tell me you've opened up your eyes and you're stepping into it and you're aware of the discomfort and you're aware about the hard choices you're making and you're doing it and you're celebrating those wins because they're so few and far between. Those were, the those were the best things. Yeah.   - Jason Seiden I mean, I will say because it's relevant. I mean, we we. We tend to think of our personal life happening in one area, in our professional life happening in another. And they don't. A decade ago, I actually coined a term, "profersonal" for, you know, this notion of the bleed over. You know, we spend a lot of time working. And so what was really surprising was how difficult that transition was without the folks on the work front doing some of that, acknowledging as well.   - Jason Seiden Not just my friends. But, you know, this is where I'm spending my time. It really helps when, when professional colleagues check in as well. Otherwise, your your work starts to feel like just this void where it's like I have to go put on a, you know, put on a mask for the majority of my day.   - Jason Seiden You know, I I think this notion of. The notion of grief at work is not trivial. It's a huge part of people's days. And, you know, I'll say I worked at it at an organization when this went down. You know, the organization I was with great culture, phenomenal culture. But this was a this was a blindspot. And it showed, and it it had an impact, like the journey could have been different.   - Jason Seiden And. What I, what I could  have done quicker or more of, I think would have been. It would have been. I could've done more. Yeah, I couldn't move through some of this faster. And. And at the end of the day, I think there's a real. You know, I I'm getting through it. I will get through it. But I think the organization lost something. And when you kind of look at large organizations with hundreds or thousands of people, here we are in COVID, and the loss is real.  People are losing people.   - Jason Seiden And there there's complicated grief happening out because they're they're unable to be with the ones they love. Now is the time to actually step into this and to have that compassion. The benefits are are substantial. They're. And they're there at multiple levels. The economic benefit, the just, the benefit to us as humans. I think it's important that our organizations step into this breach and start recognizing grief is something that we all have a responsibility for helping people through.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   - Jason Seiden You know what it is? I'll preface this by saying I don't blame anybody. It's not an area. We haven't quite evolved to this yet. I think we're on the front edge. I think people such as yourself are on the cutting edge of bringing awareness to the business environment, of the importance of dealing with grief effectively. So, you know, we're we're getting out.   - Jason Seiden We're getting a handle on DNI. And I think in that same bucket. This is this is their belonging. When you start thinking about belonging as a as a goal for DNI. Well, belonging. If you're dealing with something that nobody else is dealing with, whatever that thing is, that's your your barrier to belonging. So hopefully as we kind of move in this area, the will all get better. But, you know, it's little things. It's.   - Jason Seiden First of all, texts and messages from people are super helpful. Doesn't take much. It's just like, hey, just checking in. How you doing? The gap is experienced when you don't get those more, when the only time you do get them is on the front end of a call where you're talking about other stuff. Because, you know, I would get that from my manager. Looking back, I think the only times there were check-ins were back at the top of a call.   - Jason Seiden I'd be like, hey, how you doing? OK, great. So here's like the five things that we've got to go through today, right?   - Liesel Mertes It feels like. Yeah. Just like, hey, are you are you ready? I'm with tasks because I certainly am.    - Jason Seiden And so in, you know, like, OK, great. And so it's it doesn't count, you know. And it creates this problem with the other person thinks, I'm checking in. And you're like, no, no. You're just making sure that I'm ready to go through your agenda. That's not a check-in.   - Jason Seiden That's like.   - Jason Seiden It's like, you know, is your you know. Can you can you mute the background noise? It's it's administrative at that point.   - Liesel Mertes Different than having, a specific time that is not encumbered by any other aspects of an agenda that would, you know, crowd it out. Yeah.   - Liesel Mertes Sometimes people say ill conceived, offensive, stupid things to people who are grieving.  What were some of the least helpful things that you heard? That you say, you'd say, you know, you can do all kinds of things, there's a margin of error, but don't do this. Let me do you a favor. Don't do this.   So I'll give you so I'll give you three answers. Number one, there's always some people who are close to you who are surprising in their lack of support And so I had two of those two people who just AWOL, like shockingly AWOL. Oh, my gosh. Right. So that's. The lack of saying something is saying something. There are, then there are people who make it about themselves.   - Jason Seiden So when I was getting married, I remember the people who were in the inner circle. Right. You're a close friend. We'll get married and you find that the venue was small and you'd call and be like, dude, totally get it wherever you need to see this, totally fine as long as I'm in the venue. You do what you gotta do because you're going to have some issues here with your seating chart so you can see it coming.   - Jason Seiden I mean, it was the bubble. People like the people who were barely they barely made the cut. They're the ones who would be pissed that they weren't in the bridal party, too. They're like, dude, this is so backwards. Same thing in reverse. You know, my best friend like that. You know, Lori and Mark and Susan putting that thing together. That is so incredible. The people who showed up and who were part of it.   - Jason Seiden Amazing. And then, you know, there are the like the one or two people who who are like I was just I was appreciative that they showed up. And then I find out later they were angry that I didn't include them in the planning. And I'm like, they are so far out. They had no idea; I had nothing to do with the planning. But this was all you have a group coming together for me, like this wasn't me orchestrating.   - Jason Seiden I wasn't using Elle to. This is happening in support of her.   - Jason Seiden Right. And so that that's been that's been disappointing. You know, again, there's nothing that gets said. You just hear about that stuff sort of second hand. Right.   - Jason Seiden Then then the third part is just people who don't know what to say and you know, and they try. And I actually appreciate these people. It's it's hard for everybody. I can't tell you how many people asked me, how are you feeling today? And I'm like, you know what?   - Jason Seiden Good. Right. OK. Awesome. Like you went digging. You found the Sheryl Sandberg Plan B. Quote. And Granny read the headline and you're giving that to me. When you start getting the same question over and over again, it's it's hard. You know, I like you. You wish people would kind of real deeper or maybe find another avenue or, you know, kind of go, OK. But everybody else is saying this. So can I find the next thing?   - Jason Seiden Can I can I have the conversation to the second sentence? And so I don't want to. I want to discourage people cause it's so important to get started. I think it's just also really important to be thoughtful and to not stop at the first perceived solution. So it's not that those people said anything bad, it's that the ones who go beyond stand out that much more.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah, I hear that I'm struck. So I am reading there has been a book that that has just been published. I think it's it's called Meaning, The Sixth Stage of Grief. I'm going to check that for sure. But it's, it's a researcher who had worked with the Elizabeth Kubler Ross Foundation and after the death of his son said, you know, I feel like although these five stages that were described, they're not linear. They were never meant to be that way.   - Liesel Mertes But that the fact that an important stage for a number of people is actually the meaning that they are able to make in the aftermath of loss. Not that we. And he says there's a diversity of ways that can be another. The death in and of itself is meaningful. But there are different ways of making meaning from this and how the people who live beyond that integrate a loss or grief into their lives   - Jason Seiden Kessler.   - Liesel Mertes Yes. Yes. Have you read his book?   - Jason Seiden I have not read it yet. It's on the list.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah, I've heard him on an interview.   - Liesel Mertes It's I've appreciated it so far. It strikes me that making meaning has been an important aspect for you. Tell me what making meaning has looked like for you.   - Jason Seiden Yeah, it's some. I hadn't really thought about it until I kind of heard the concept and realized, yes. This is true. Life is really random. Right. So here's, here's something that that death does. It brings a finality to a relationship that cannot be undone. And it leaves you, you know, it's like the other side of the game. A tug of war drops the rope and you're just and you're left in this you're flying backwards stage.   - Jason Seiden Except there's no there's no hard ground to land on. There is no other person to laugh that they let go of the rope like you are now potentially flying forever in the wrong direction. And finding meaning is really for me. It's been around, you know planting my feet under me and just bringing that momentum to a stop and recognizing I can't honor Elle if I'm crumpled in a ball on the floor. I can't honor Elle if I'm in the past, you know, grieving her illness or thinking of her sick.   - Jason Seiden I can't honor Elle if I'm in the future, if I'm anxious about will this happen again and like this happen to somebody else and what if and what if I hurt somebody? And what if I'm responsible?   - Jason Seiden What if I did? None of that helps. And so for me, finding meaning has been around what Elle stand for. How can I honor her? What should I do? What can I do today that she would be proud of? And really, that's about grounding myself in the present and finding a way to conduct myself. That starts just getting through my day. Right. It's like, OK, I can't honor her if I'm crumpled on the floor.   - Jason Seiden So what does that mean? It means I have to choose to be happy. I have to choose to live like I have to choose to get up. I have to have to choose to try. So that looks like putting my feet on the floor. Getting out of bed, making the bed, making coffee, certain, basic stuff. And as and as I kind of got that underway, then it was like, OK, well, what am I doing?   - Jason Seiden What should I go do today? Well, I should be healthy. I should go for a run. You know, the CRPS attacked your legs. I'm going to go run. And I'm I'm I'm go use that part of my body that she couldn't. Because if I were you know, it's like if I want people to tell me that they're happy and they're not taking their families for granted, I have to assume she'd want the same. And so I'm going to do that.   - Jason Seiden And, and right then it cascades up from kind of the basic stuff to what am I doing, like, on a higher level and my leaving the world a better place. Am I taking care of the people around me? But at the end of the day, finding meaning has been around grounding myself in the present so that I can honor her in a way that also allows me to move forward.   - Liesel Mertes I think that there are some people who would hear something like that, you know, they would this, Elle want me to live fully and be happy and I'm purposing to do that, that for some people that can morph into, I'm, I'm just not going to think about these unpleasant feelings anymore. When they come up, it could be its own form of avoidance and pushing those things away. How do you, how do you live into that meaning without just ignoring the painful feelings that can crop up unexpectedly?   - Liesel Mertes How do you still acknowledge and honor some of that sadness and emotion?   - Jason Seiden Easier said than done. I can't say that I do that perfectly. This is, this is not a topic that I speak easily about and I actually don't speak a lot about because it is hard to step into those feelings without kind of getting lost. But.   - Jason Seiden I think. For me. If I'm totally candid there are parts of it that could feel sacrilegious. There are times where moving forward actually feels like it's gonna be disrespectful like that, the respectful thing to do would be to sit and cry and grieve and be a mess and that the way to honor her would be show her how important she was by showing her how incapable I am of moving forward without her.   - Jason Seiden And at those moments, it's a hard choice and the hard choice is to remember, we are all individual people on this planet and me doing that, me, quote unquote, honoring her in that way would be to lose two lives. So that doesn't work.   - Jason Seiden And then you get. Right. So that's, that's sort of one path. And so I just I allowed the emotions and the thoughts to kind of carry me to get to that point. And I'm like, OK, I can't do this.   - Jason Seiden It doesn't work. So even though the other side, even though moving forward doesn't feel right, I just proved to myself that sitting here in a bar wallowing doesn't work. So I'm going to go make that choice. That doesn't feel right, not because I'm drawn to it, but because I am repelled by this other thing.   - Jason Seiden And then, and then there's another part too, which is there's a piece of it that's like, well, to honor her feels like picking up her torch. And carrying that and becoming the social worker, becoming her, doing the things that. And I run into the same problem. We're different people. He, you know, I can support her causes and I am. But I'm I'm taking my time because, this happened to me. It could very easily be the thing that defines me.   - Jason Seiden And I've spent my entire life to defining myself to be something else. I'm not ready to just let this become the thing. You know, there's the guy lost. That's not who I am. What I want to be is the guy who shows people how to continue to be themselves. Even when something like this happens.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah.   - Jason Seiden And so, you know, so there's a it's it's hard, you know. What does it look like and how does it feel? Sometimes it feels sacrilegious. Other times it feels like I get selfish.   - Liesel Mertes We are drawing near the close of our time. But I'm struck in that last thing you said, you know, you are you are not just a man who has had his daughter die.   - Liesel Mertes What are some interesting things that you like about yourself that make you you?   - Jason Seiden You know, it's a surprisingly hard question.   - Liesel Mertes Sometimes it can be. I have a friend who would do that to people on their birthdays. He would be like, you need to tell all of us three things you like about yourself. I felt kind of awkward.   - Jason Seiden I live out loud. I, I, I make my mistakes. My my dad used to say, my dad says, own your mistakes. They're the only things other than your name that other people won't try and take credit for.   - Liesel Mertes And it's a great line.   - Jason Seiden It is. And in this day and age of of digital piracy, your name's not even safe. So, like, literally, my mistakes are the only things I can. So I make them and I do my best to make new ones all the time. I try not to repeat. So I live my life. I learn. I still am learning. I am still open to learn. I don't.   - Jason Seiden I know what I know. And I. I've earned my gray hair once, I don't have to earn it twice like I know when I'm in a situation where I actually have an expertise, but I am well aware that it's a great big world. And, you know, I have like, this tiny speck of knowledge within it.   - Jason Seiden So, I appreciate the fact that at my age I can still look at the world with a certain amount of wonder and to sort of get lost in it and want to know how things work.   - Jason Seiden And. I. You know, I and I'm stronger than I realized. I have a certain amount of resiliency that I'm. This has not been an easy journey, but I'm I'm surrounded by people in this club that I don't want to be in.  But,  those of us who are able to persevere and make something positive of it. I, I see the people who aren't able to do that. And I can I can recognize that I'm I mean, about I have something to offer because the boat I mean, it's the boat of people who are able to move forward. And I'm proud of that.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   Here are three reflections from my conversation with Jason.   Even if you aren’t sure of what to do or say, move towards people in their grief.In his words, “Live your life, make the damn mistake,”.  You won’t be perfect and you don’t have to be but your support matters. If you are in a workplace setting with a parent that has lost a child, especially as a manager, make time to actually check-in with them, not just as an entrée to a meeting, ticking a box so you can get on with an agenda item.This might mean scheduling a call or a meeting that isn’t about a to-do list but only about hearing from them about their how they are doing.  Navigating life after the loss of a child is hard.Jason expresses the complex, internal challenge of moving forward, of not letting himself be singularly defined by Elle’s death.  Sometimes it can feel sacrilegious or selfish as he leans into life beyond his daughter, struggling to be and become himself even after tragedy.  If you are struggling in this journey, perhaps you find camaraderie in Jason’s reflections.  And if you know someone who has lost a child, perhaps this gives you additional insight.     OUTRO

How would you change your digital marketing spend if you knew with 100% certainty what was driving results? This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, Joel Maldonado of Path Interactive talks about the attribution modeling work that won Path Interactive the first ever Google Display Innovation Award.  Joel and the team at Path Interactive were working with their client iCIMS to improve the company's ability to understand the performance of its marketing channels, and as part of the project, they built a custom attribution model that tied various software programs iCIMS was using to Google. Using the model, they were able to determine that Google display advertising was actually driving 7x more results than they originally thought. Based on this data, the company increased its spend on Google ads and in conjunction with that, its marketing results. In this episode, Joel breaks down exactly how Path Interactive was able to construct an attribution model that gave iCIMS complete clarity ab out what was driving its marketing results, and showcases why it's so important to get attribution right. Check out the full episode to learn more. Resources from this episode: Check out the Path Interactive website Connect with Joel on LinkedIn Transcript Kathleen (00:01): Welcome back to the Inbound Success Podcast. I'm your host, Kathleen Booth. And this week, my guest is Joel Maldonado, who is the Acquisition and Growth Lead for Digital Media at Path Interactive. Welcome Joel, how are you? Joel (00:25): Doing well? How are you? Kathleen (00:26): I'm great. I'm really excited to chat with you. And before we get started, could you tell my listeners a little bit about yourself? What's your background? What do you do at Path and what does the company do? Joel (00:41): Sure. So I'm Joel. My background is I, I I've, I've been in the industry since 2011. So nearly a decade, which makes me feel old. But I went to school at Villanova University. So out of Philly, and kind of moved to New York immediately after, and I've been in the marketing industry ever since. I started working my career in a couple, a couple of startups, Target Spot and My Supermarket. And since 2013, I've been lucky enough to be at Path Interactive for the past seven years. And really, what we do is we're a full service digital agency. So we manage paid media campaigns. We have an SEO service channel. We also have an analytics team that does a lot of like pixel implementation, reporting infrastructure, custom integrations, which we might get into some of that today, as well as conversion rate optimizations. Joel (01:38): We have a creative team that kind of does a couple of functions. They design and build websites, and they also really work as our in house creative to support any media campaigns or social engagements that we have going on. So its really just kind of across the board, a full service digital agency. We also do video production. So kind of covering all of our bases there at Path Interactive. I kind of wear a couple hats. So I am on the paid media team or service channel at Path. So I kind of lead my own team and have my own book of business and clients that I manage and those relationships and those budgets on a monthly basis. But I'm also, I also sit on the leadership team at Path, which really for us, that's more about really guiding the strategic vision of the company over the next couple of years, as well as trying to make sure that we continue to make Path Interactive a better place to work for our employees. So that's something that we do on an ongoing basis every two weeks to really hammer home those two goals. Kathleen (02:49): That's great. And, and I got connected with you because you were doing paid media work for a friend of mine who's head of marketing for a company down in Florida, and she was just so impressed by the work you had done. So immediately I thought, I've got to talk to this guy. That's how I find a lot of my guests, is just hearing about the great work that they're doing, you know, and it's interesting. So you're on the paid media side and within paid media, there's obviously so many different channels. But then the company also does, as you said, all kinds of different things like websites and video and lead generation campaigns, et cetera. You know, one of the, I feel like one of the holy grails for marketers is attribution. At the end of the day, being able to report to the rest of the company, you know, how the dollars they're spending and how the activities they're engaged in are translating into revenue, but it's such a hard problem to solve, especially when you've got activities in all these different areas. And so I know you've done some work around figuring out attribution and you guys have actually won some awards for the work you've done in that area. Is that right? Joel (03:59): Yeah, absolutely. So, and I think it was back 2017 or 2018, we won the very first Google Display Innovation Award for work we've done with iCIMS which is basically, they're a talent acquisition SaaS software company based out of New Jersey. And it's been a company that's grown a lot over the years. And they, they, they handle kind of a few different things within the talent acquisition space. Most of what they do is recruiting, but they also do what's called kind of recruitment marketing. And they, they had some acquisitions along the way. So, so now they have kind of extensions of, of some of their recruiting and talent acquisition products and services. So it's, it's definitely an interesting company that's, you know, they're based in technology. So they kind of understand the need for using technology to not just grow your company, but also improve your products. So I think it was, it made sense that we're able to work closely with them to kind of grow their, their customer base and their marketing budgets. Kathleen (05:04): So can you tell me a little bit about kind of the challenge they came to you with and, and what was the work that you did for them? Joel (05:12): Yeah, so the challenge with iCIMS, what we've been working with them for, I want to say six to seven years now. So they have been a long time client. When we started with them, they, they wanted to kind of grow their overall customer base but they were very focused in, on kind of last click attribution and, and really judging everything that they do based on last click attribution. And at the time they did have a sizeable display budget and based on kind of the current metrics that they were dealing with they, they kind of saw that display was, was almost this kind of wasteful spend. It didn't really lead to opportunities, which is really the way they grow their businesses is through opportunities. And based on their technology and their measurement capabilities at the time, what their numbers were, what they were telling them was that their display spend was, was unprofitable or, or was. So the challenge for us was to, to really understand what was happening with their display spend and, and understand if any of it was impactful and, and how it was impacting some of their search budget or some of their other marketing channels. Joel (06:32): So we knew that we needed to really get better measurement tools in place and better attribution in place to understand how to tweak their display budgets and tactics to really grow their business. Does that make sense? Kathleen (06:46): How did you go about doing that? And, and I mean, what, I guess, if you could get into also the tech stack behind it and let's get into all the gory details. Joel (06:56): Absolutely. Yeah. So we started by building out our own custom integrations. So we have a few tools that we use depending on kind of what our client's needs are. So one of those is Marin software, which is a bid management tool. So we were able to build an integration from the client's CRM, which is Salesforce in this case, to Marin software, which was our bid management tool. So what we did there, was we essentially created a framework where anyone that gets to the client's website is given sort of this unique identifier. It's something that's not PII or personal information, its just, you know, an alpha numeric code or a number that's on there. And what we do with that is, when someone is assigned that number, as soon as they get to the site, when they fill out a lead capture form, we have some hidden fields and some technology behind the lead capture form that will essentially record that number. Joel (08:01): And what that does is, you know, let's say they have Pardot or a HubSpot which, which is what powers their forms, that number will kind of follow them along the sales cycle at all of the different stages. And when it gets to any particular milestone that's important to us, such as opportunity stage, that information is sent from Salesforce back to our Marin software so that we can see from, you know, whether it's a channel level all the way down to the creative and keyword level, what types of creatives, keywords or tactics are really driving opportunities. And that, that was kind of like a phase one of, of how we really started to, to fine tune and grow their customer base. Now, the challenges with this piece was that you know, at, at that time, everything was still a click based model, right? Joel (08:57): So you know, Marin's pixels and things like that, they, they really record all activity on the website, but it's all click based activity. So from there, once we were able to really fine tune their, their search budgets and their display budgets a little bit better from a last click standpoint, but more so less on what drives front end leads or lead captures and really emphasize on what drives opportunities. Then we really start to get an understanding of, of kind of what works on a last click basis. But we knew that, you know, display was still something that, that we needed to tackle and get underneath. And we knew that display is not just going to have an impact on your advertising from a click based standpoint. It's also going to have value from an impression based standpoint where people are seeing those ads and, you know, they visit the website you have through paid search, organic search or even direct. Joel (09:53): And so display really wasn't getting credit for, for some of that. So we still had to find a way to, to understand more of the display side. And, and, you know, the limitations of that first integration weren't gonna allow us to do that. So we started looking elsewhere and we landed on using Google analytics to be able to, to try to tie back impressions to all of that, all that performance. So we kind of use the same methodology in terms of assigning this alphanumeric number to anyone that visits the website and, and using Salesforce to communicate that back to another system. And when we integrated that process with Google analytics, with Google Analytics 360, you are able to see not just click based interactions, but also impression based interactions and how that influences other channels throughout the entire conversion funnel. So, you know, we, we basically essentially created a second custom integration where we upload a, what we call offline data, which is just data that comes from Salesforce, and what happens to someone who reaches a critical milestone or, or stage such as opportunity. And we would load that back into Google analytics, again, marrying the marketing data with the CRM data. And that's when we really started to understand how our displacement was influencing our search span and even organic channels, email, and all the other channels. Yeah. Kathleen (11:28): I have so many questions. I guess the first one is, all of this starts with this unique identifier, from what I understand. So I get the concept of, like, for example, I use HubSpot, and if somebody comes to the site, they fill out a form. I understand the concept of having a hidden field that they don't see, but that you've prepopulated if you will. So when they submit the form, that goes into their contact record. But how are you generating that random number for that field? Joel (12:03): Yeah. So in the past, you know, we kind of just created our own using some, some code and logic. Most recently we've found it's been more efficient to use, what's called a GA Client ID or Client ID. So Google analytics essentially does the same, same thing. You know, when someone gets to the website, they actually try to assign an alpha numeric number so that they can you know, tie back all of these sessions and user behavior through analytics. So we just started to take you back off of, off of that and really use that as a form of tying everything back together. Kathleen (12:40): So is, is the only way to connect those two things like let's say HubSpot and that Google Analytics unique identifier, the only way to do that through a custom integration, or are there any out of the box tools? Joel (12:53): I did, I don't believe there's any out of the box tools that, that I know of. You know, if you think about Google ads that Google ads has like auto tagging, which they use a what's called a GCLID or a Google Click ID, and essentially the very similar alphanumeric number that Google Analytics knows how to kind of decode that and translate that into campaign creatives and keywords and things like that. But our integrations don't just work in the Google universe. They, they work outside of that which, which I think is very beneficial. Kathleen (13:29): So basically anybody coming through from Safari or Firefox or any of any of the different browsers would, you'd be able to accomplish this. Joel (13:42): Yeah, so we, we have the same information for Google as we do Bing, which, most of what we do for iCIMS is, is in Google and Microsoft ads interfaces. But essentially, you can adapt this to Facebook or LinkedIn and other things. And we also get data on their organic search behavior and what they're doing with email and things like that. Kathleen (14:05): So you assign the unique identifier, which basically tells you from the first conversion you're able to identify, okay, this is, this is that particular unique visitor. And then that identifier, if you have a good Google Analytics set up and marketing automation set up that can carry through to all their different activities on the site. So you mentioned click and impression, and I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, because this is not my area of expertise. So I may ask some dumb questions. Like, as a HubSpot user, I know that HubSpot will cookie, as soon as they fill out the form, they're going to get cookied. And so HubSpot will, will follow everything they do on the site. But when you say you're tracking impressions, does that mean you're, you're tracking impressions of the ads and marrying that with impression data from the website? Joel (14:59): So it's not more, it's that impression data, well, I guess more so you're talking about like the visit visitation data from the website. So what with the Google Analytics 360, if you're running Google Display Network and, you know, your display budget through that interface, because the Google ecosystem that will communicate to Google Analytics, if those products are linked together. So if Google ads is linked up with Google Analytics and so even before someone visits the website, you're getting that, that impression data right now, when someone actually visit the website, we're getting that client ID and passing it through. And then marrying that back into Marin in Google Analytics so that we can see okay, this, these opportunities began within with a display impression. They may have converted somewhere else, like direct or paid search, even branded paid search. But it all started with a display impression. Kathleen (16:02): Wow. And so is the only reason that you're able to tie this together in a completely holistic way that is, is it because you're using that Google Analytics identifier and carrying that through all the way, and that's why you can marry everything they do before they get to the site with what they do on the site, as well as what they do after they leave the site. Joel (16:25): Yeah. The, the identifier is definitely the key piece. And even if it's not, you know, within the Google interface you should you'll with that identifier, you'll be able to tie back probably the extra piece where if you're running your display advertising through Google, then you'll also get the impression data, which is going to be helpful. Kathleen (16:49): Wow. So this is like crazy amazing for marketers, because it sounds like you're able to really see every single touch that you have with this person. But I imagine for somebody who's listening, it would might be kind of creepy for a customer to know that a company can see all of that. Joel (17:15): Yeah, definitely the, the kind of the age that we're living in. But it's, it's critical for marketers to, to and advertisers to understand particularly around their, their display budgets and how that is influencing other things. I forget, I think it was Brad Wanamaker who said, you know, like 50% of my ad budget is wasted. I just don't know which half. So this is something that really allows us to understand what half or whatever the percentage is, is wasteful, so that we can really move that budget and reallocate to things that we know are working and driving opportunity value. Kathleen (17:56): So you set this all up, you have all the data coming in. I'm really curious to know what you learned. Like, were there any big surprises that came out of the data? Joel (18:07): Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So if you look at only a click based model about only 4% of opportunities are given credit to display but with, with this revamped attribution model, we actually saw that about a third, a third, really 33% of opportunities contained display impression, somewhere along that conversion path. And, and at least a quarter of those, 25% actually began with a display impression. So we understood that display has incredible value, and that's kind of how we were able to, to grow their budgets and bring in more leads, bring in more opportunities and essentially help them grow their business. Kathleen (18:56): So am I right? That, that display actually accounted for somewhere between four and six times, the opportunities that you were originally thinking it accounted for based on the initial dataset? Joel (19:11): Right? It's like seven and a half. Kathleen (19:14): Wow. Joel (19:14): A five X increase from what we thought and sort of a, a good cycle. And you get some momentum from that because once you understand the parts of display that are driving those opportunities, you can continue to reinvest and re funnel, kind of hitting on all gears there. Kathleen (19:39): So did that cause them to change their budgets? I would. I mean, if it were me, I would think I'd want to increase my budgets Joel (19:50): Kathleen, we'll see increases of anywhere from 25 to 35% year over year in terms of, you know, from where we started to three, four years later. Kathleen (20:03): Wow. That's amazing. So that, that's the project correct? That you won the award from Google for? Joel (20:13): Yeah, absolutely. Kathleen (20:17): So is that, that obviously required a certain amount of custom coding in order to put in place. And, and somebody who has the, either the internal resources to be able to do that, or, you know, can work with an agency, could replicate that kind of of a setup. But do you have any advice for somebody that maybe doesn't have access to that, like as, are there other ways of improving attribution that are, that maybe are a little bit simpler or more DIY? Joel (20:49): Yeah. So with iCIMS, we actually use three different integrations. Two are custom built. One was the first one that I talked about, which was Marin. So Google ads has had a Salesforce integration for probably maybe two to three years now. And, and it's definitely evolved over that time period. So it is a lot easier nowadays to integrate your, your Google ads in a way that doesn't take a ton of development work. Probably just, you know, five to 10 new hours of, of development work as far as like coding and things like that, to take your Google click ID and make sure that gets assigned in a hidden field to all the contacts and things like that. And to be communicated back to Google ads. And so, you know, if your main, if your main, a driver of performance or your main source of budget is Google ads that's kind of a no brainer to do well. If you're, if you know, CRM, Salesforce is your CRM and you want to get some milestone data based on kind of what you're seeing now, that is still a last click model or, or I should say a click based model. So you're not necessarily going to get the impression value, but at least you'll, you'll understand pretty easily what the opportunity value is of whatever you're, you're managing and Google ads Kathleen (22:39): That is so fascinating. You know, and how, if somebody was to come to you guys and say, I want to set this up for myself for my own marketing, is that, you know, how long does that take to get set up? Is it, I, and I, I won't say how much does it cost, but like, can you give me an order of magnitude? Is this something that's accessible to most companies or is it crazy expensive to do? Joel (23:02): Yeah, I think it is accessible to most companies. What we typically do is a lot of these integrations have just so many different factors based on what your tech stack is and your sales cycle and how everything works. So we typically start with, you know, what kind of technology do you use? How does your sales process work? We want to find out as much information as possible about sort of, you know, how your business operates and what your, your, your sales funnel looks like. And then we start to put the pieces together of, all right, you know, maybe you don't need this level of sophistication. You just need something that's a little bit more standard and XYZ is going to work for you. So there's going to be things that, that you don't need. There's going to be things that, that you might need, or maybe you, you kind of build it into a three year plan of our, I need this level of sophisticated laid out. So that in year three, I have you know, more insight into what could be more innovative tactics that we'll be able to do. But I just can't tackle that right now. So it definitely you want to understand kind of what your situation is and plan around that. Kathleen (24:28): That's so interesting. All right, switching gears. I have two questions I always ask my audience or my guests. And I'm curious to know what you have to say. The first one is, we're all about inbound marketing on this podcast. Is there a particular company or individual that you have seen, that's really killing it with inbound marketing right now? Joel (24:54): Yeah actually, I mean, to me, the first one when that comes to mind is iCIMs. I think they, they've been a great client and partner for us and in terms of the things that we've wanted to, to implement it and integrate and kind of what our vision was. So they've always, they've always been kind of willing to, to innovate and even outside of what we do, they have a good sales process and having good measurement and things like that. Mmm. And their, their level of sophistication has definitely evolved over the years. So with these integrations, we actually get down to some of the different company size segments that are important to them. So they have kind of company or sometimes different industries. And with all this technology, we've been able to not just look at this one big bucket and say, all right we're driving X amount of overall opportunities, but now we're to the level of looking at opportunities based on company size and industry and all these different factors that impact the growth of their business. So for, for them to kind of really understand that and, and work with us to, to implement those mechanisms, to be able to see that on all of that information on such a granular level to really plan out, you know, what their growth, that's kind of why I would think iCIMS is pretty much the first company that comes to mind. Kathleen (26:29): I'll definitely have to check them out. And then the second question is, digital marketing is changing so quickly. And marketers, whenever I talk to them, they're always saying I can't keep up. There's so much new stuff. So how do you personally keep yourself educated and kind of on the cutting edge of all of this? Joel (26:48): Yeah. I mean, there's a few publications that I read such as like Search Engine Land, PPC Hero, things like that. I'm also interested in SEO, you know, which is not my expertise, but I'm curious. So just learning about it in general. So at Path, we have a pretty great SEO lead, her name is Lily Ray. She's always out there speaking. She's very active on Twitter, speaks at a lot of conferences and things like that. So I kind of look to her for, for a lot of SEO specific information. But I think at the end of the day you know, we best learn by, by doing so if, if you're in the platforms every day and really trying to understand how they work, I think over time you get a better understanding of how, how you can innovate from what you have available to you. Joel (27:49): And I always think it's important, especially in today's world, like 2020 has been the craziest time. If you're a company that is innovating and, and testing new things they're, they're, they're not going to be wasted and that will soften the impact of, of something like a pandemic or you know, all of the, the sort of like the racial justice protests and things that are going on in the world. Like, there's, there's going to be ways that like no one, no one can plan or prepare for something this crazy to happen. But I think if you always are testing and innovating you'll be able to, to find these, these little trinkets of, of areas that are gonna work well for you, because what we've found as marketers is things are always going to change what you've relied on as your bread and butter in the past, historically, who knows if that's going to be available next year. So why not test now and, and really future-proof and build that infrastructure for something that you might need to pivot to before you actually need to do it. Kathleen (29:00): Yeah, that's a great point. And it has been just an insane year, from wildfires in Australia to pandemics all over the world, to racial you know, protesting, to murder hornets. It's just crazy. So you can't plan for any of that. Joel (29:19): Right. And even now, you know, it was this July, Facebook boycott, that's going to impact potentially a lot of businesses, especially if the majority of your, your marketing spend is on Facebook. So it's going to be really tough, challenging if, if you know, a lot of advertisers boycott, where do you put budget and how do you continue to grow your business without a source of, of inventory that potentially was one of your biggest sources? Kathleen (29:52): Yeah, absolutely. Well, this is so fascinating. If somebody wants to learn more about what you're talking about, or check out some information on the campaign that led you to the award, or connect with you and ask a question, what's the best way for them to connect with you online? Joel (30:09): Yeah. So I'm on LinkedIn. The Path Interactive website does have a case study kind of detailing and really streamlining the conversation that we had today about iCIMS. So that's kind of on our website you know, but feel free to visit pathinteractive.com and go fill out a lead form and get in touch with one of our salespeople. So we can talk about how to partner and improve your business. Kathleen (30:37): Awesome. Well, I will put all those links in the show notes, and if you're listening and you learned something new, or like what you heard, I would love it if you would head to Apple Podcasts and leave the podcast a five star review so that other people can find us and hear great content, like the stuff that Joel is sharing. And of course, if you know somebody else doing kick ass inbound marketing work, tweet me at @workmommywork because I would love to interview them. That's it for this week. Thank you so much, Joel. Joel (31:07): Absolutely. Appreciate it.

This week I'm bringing you some science and some research, some empowerment and some motivation... To be real, I was having a tough time getting through the current climate right now, and I know I'm not alone. The words of this neuroscientist really uplifted me and got me back on my feet. So I'm passing along her words in the hopes that it will do the same for you! The Dalai Lama calls compassion "Wise Selfishness," and we've got some science to back up why it's so dang wise.    10% Happier Episode #260 with Emiliana Simon-Thomas Emiliana Simon-Thomas Bio Darryl Cameron - Compassion Collapse Follow the podcast & myself on Instagram or Facebook! @growingmindspodcast

Learn more about NikolaFollow Trevor on TwitterSupport the show and get on monthly mentorship calls with Fabian. Join here.Full Transcript:F Geyrhalter:Welcome to the show, Trevor. It's an incredible honor to have you on Hitting The Mark.Trevor:Thanks guys. It's going to be a lot of fun. A lot of stuff's happened, even over the last week. Wow.F Geyrhalter:I wanted to start off with that. I mean, it's been an interesting last week for you. You're officially trading on Nasdaq, which is amazing. And during this whole thing, during the quarantine, must've been a very strange kind of experience for you.Trevor:Yeah. Second biggest day of my life, I tell people, because the first day was when I got married, but the second day definitely was being listed on the Nasdaq. I mean, that's everyone's dream, to become listed on the Nasdaq and doing it through the coronavirus was actually incredible, because I'm a big believer in trying to find the good in all situations. And there was a lot of really difficult things going on around the world with the coronavirus, very sad. And so we turned Nikola into America's comeback story, and that was a company that the world could rally behind that, they'd be proud. America would be proud, the world would be proud. The first zero emission semi-truck manufacturer in the entire world, to be dedicated only to zero emissions. And the investors have heavily rewarded us for it. Today, we're at $53 a share or whatever, about $18 billion valuation in our company. And I mean, we're going to be overtaking the biggest brands in the world here, shortly. And what a wonderful experience that has been, on all levels.F Geyrhalter:And hence, I love having you on so much, especially now a couple days after this, it's amazing. I've been following your brand for quite a while. I'm a happy shareholder now too.Trevor:Oh, thanks.F Geyrhalter:I'm glad to hear the news today. That's good, it seems like we're going into the right direction. But just to read a couple of bullet points from your press release, you raised more than $700 million. Pre-orders represent more than $10 billion in potential revenue and your hydrogen network anticipates to cover all of North America and it sets to become the largest hydrogen network in the world. This is mind blowing, but it's especially remarkable since you founded the company in 2014 and you only officially launched in 2016 with a prototype and only a few engineers. Further, if I'm correct, you're only 37 now, right?Trevor:38.F Geyrhalter:38?Trevor:Yeah, 38.F Geyrhalter:So you started the company when you were 29, out of your basement. So how did you get from there in 2016, to where you are now? I mean, it is not easy to create a company like yours.Trevor:No.F Geyrhalter:Talk us through a little bit of the founding steps. You're kind of compared sometimes, a little bit to Apple, the way that you guys were all sitting in your basement, you know?Trevor:Yeah. I have some really cool articles on my LinkedIn that I would recommend everyone go read. And I put some serious thought into those very heartfelt discussions about what it took to get here. And I'm going to tell you what those are right now, but I want people to know if they want to read in detail, they can go there. I've told everybody that I've ever met, that if you want to create wealth, it will not happen in under 10 years, ever. There are maybe one or two examples in the world that ever did happen quicker than that, unless you just got lucky, like some oil on your property or whatever it may be.But ultimately if you're going to create real wealth, it is a 10 year program and most likely, you're going to fail, the odds are against you. So here's what I tell people, "Look, if you want to be an entrepreneur and you want to do this, it is the most rewarding and invigorating thing on the planet Earth, when you succeed. It's also the most difficult, emotional, draining venture you'll ever do, when you fail. It'll wreck you, it'll wreck your body, your health, everything about you. So the risks are high, the rewards are high and the odds are, you're going to fail." Now, where people succeed is when they've got multiple failures and multiple successes underneath their belt.So this is my fifth company. I'm 38, it's my fifth company. Three of them have been successes and two have been failures. And it's amazing, because you look online and some people are bashing me because they're like, "Ah, I would never want this guy, this fraud, who's failed twice in his life to touch my money." And I'm like, "Well, you should definitely never invest in me or my company then, because I don't know a single baseball player in the world that does not strike out when you're hitting home runs." The best baseball players in the world have a .400 batting average, right?F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:And so, 4 out of 10... I would never want anyone touching my money, if they haven't failed. Because if you don't know what it's like to lose everything, then you're going to make some really stupid decisions in your life. And so, these are just haters, just online haters that just hate you no matter what.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:But to get here, that's the beauty of this. It started out of my basement, truly because we didn't know if we really had a product at that time. We worked out of there for a year. And here we are now, a $18 billion company, a couple days after the Nasdaq listing. So it's pretty incredible.F Geyrhalter:It's a story of determination, that's for sure. Especially going against this kind of industry and fitting in and standing out, it's not easy. Let me share Nikola's mission with the audience. It's to "Transform the transportation industry while improving our employees' lives and leaving the world a better place." Now you're very much a visionary, so mission and vision and values and all of this brand work that I usually do with my clients, that must come naturally to you. But I wonder, have you used outside help to create those brand pillars, like most companies do? Or was this Trevor sitting on his desk late at night, jotting them down?Trevor:It really was. It was a lot of, Trevor sitting down on his desk.F Geyrhalter:I'm not surprised.Trevor:And creating these things. I mean, look, here's the thing, I love communication. It's one of my favorite things in life. I value communication as one of my greatest talents and assets I have. And that's because you can communicate through all the craziness in the world. Like you said, there's so many brands out there, how do you create a brand that is so special to the world? Well, in order to do that, you have to solve problems that are special to the world. And you'll never stand out if you don't change the world.And in our mission statement, to leave this place a better place than we found it, I truly believe that. It's my life goal, to leave this place better than I found it. And Nikola, if we pull this off, which I believe we have a very good chance of doing. If we pull this off, with getting all of our trucks built, all over the world, then you're going to see the greatest reduction in emissions the world has ever seen, ever by any company on the planet. And so, that is why people are rewarding us. They're rewarding us because we're making a bigger change than anyone else is making.F Geyrhalter:Well, you are a purpose driven company and that's not just some brand statement, that is true, right? I mean, you're solving one of the biggest problems, that are out there right now.Trevor:Yeah, you're purpose driven and then you actually have to be profitable. I think that's why Nikola has done so well, is because our business model's huge, our margins are... We make five times more revenue than Daimler does. Now just imagine that, per truck sold. So the reason why we're successful is because we've vertically integrated the whole supply chain. So when you buy a diesel today, heaven forbid. You buy a diesel, you're going to spend 150 on the diesel, right? 150,000.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:Then, you're going to spend a million dollars on the oil to power that diesel, over the life of it. So the oil companies are back there, just clapping their hands, loving every second that Peterbilt or Daimler sells a diesel truck. Because they make more revenue than Peterbilt or Daimler has ever dreamed of making.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:So that's where I was like, "Dude, this is crazy. Why are we not sucking all that money out of the oil company's hands and putting it in our own pocket?" And that's what I did. I said, "Okay, we're going to sell the truck, but we're going to provide all the fuel at a fixed rate for seven years." And now, we've stabilized the cost of hydrogen, driven it down low, made it towards cheaper, that it can be cheaper than diesel. And we're taking that 750,000 to $1,000,000 in revenue, in oil and we're bringing it into our own pockets. Because we're not doing oil, we're doing hydrogen. And so we make five times more revenue, on every truck we sell, we get about a million dollars in revenue. So that's why Nikola has done so well.F Geyrhalter:So cool. Unbelievable. And you beat Daimler and Volvo and Tesla in bringing the world's first zero-emissions truck to market, right? I mean, that's one of their claims to fame. And you build your trucks in Ulm in Germany, where I was just visiting family a few months ago. So I'm wondering, the whole "Made in Germany" brand, so to speak, it had a lot of cachet. Was that a big reason to get German engineering or was it mainly logistics and a financial decision, with the first rollout? And of course, as a second part to the question, has the Volkswagen emissions scandal tainted this reputation within the market?Trevor:Oh man, the Volkswagen emissions scandal was like, I hate to ever take advantage of a bad situation, right? But I mean, it was the greatest thing for Nikola that's ever happened because the jackasses-F Geyrhalter:It was fuel to the fire.Trevor:... they lied to the whole world, they deceived everyone. People realized that they were cheaters and the world has now rewarded Tesla and Nikola for both pioneering zero emission around the world. But that's a whole different thing. Why is it built in Ulm? Well, let me break this out real quick. We have two factories. We have one going up in Coolidge Arizona, which is part of Phoenix Arizona. And we have one factory going up in Ulm Germany, right now. And Ulm is spelled U-L-M for all the Americans that don't know how to say Ulm.So the reason why we have Ulm Germany, is because our partner IVECO, we did a massive joint venture with IVECO and this joint venture is going to provide all the battery-electric and hydrogen-electric trucks to all of Europe. So right now, we were the first company to launch the zero-emission truck, we're the first company to do full production of a zero-emission truck. We were first and that's one of the greatest things out there. And it's a full production truck, over 300 miles. There are other people that have the little rinky-dink trucks that go like 150 miles, but I'm talking full 300 miles, pulling a real load.So we're the first company in the world to do it. They're coming out of Ulm Germany. In just a matter of, I would say less than a few months, we'll have the first ones coming out that are hand-built. And by middle to third quarter of next year, full production begins, out of that factory. So in the same time we're building our American factory for our American trucks, we're going to provide both the battery-electric and the hydrogen as well, but they're built to go longer distances, 500 plus miles. So that's kind of how everything's going right now is, yes, we did beat everybody. We beat Daimler, we beat Volvo, we beat Tesla, we beat everybody. And it's a wonderful feeling to be able to do that.F Geyrhalter:Oh, sure. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And even though you're known for your trucks, let's talk about that insanely cool Nikola Badger, which I believe you just made an announcement this morning, when we're recording that it is going to be available for pre-order starting June 29th. So this month, right?Trevor:It is. The Badger's this badass pickup truck. Well, let's just put it this way, the reason why people have not been a fan of electric pickup trucks is because they can't do what a gasoline can do, right? So even with the Cybertruck from Tesla or the Rivian truck, they're very small, they don't go very far. They can't pull a trailer up a 6% grade. They can't handle the continuous load that you can put on a gasoline vehicle. So that's always been the biggest hinderment to a electric truck, was people want a truck that can actually pull a trailer. They can take it to a construction site, they can drive around with their family, they can pull a boat with it or whatever.F Geyrhalter:Yeah, yeah.Trevor:And so we built that. We built the most gorgeous, badass electric, hydrogen pickup truck in the world. And what sets it apart from everything, is that you can order the Badger as a battery-electric truck, that'll give you 3 to 400 miles on its own. And you can also order the Badger as a battery-electric and hydrogen truck, which will give you 600 plus miles on a range.F Geyrhalter:That's insane.Trevor:So the customer can fully spec it, how they want it. And everyone else is like either, "Oh, you'll only get battery." Well, some people need the continuous horsepower or the additional range that hydrogen gives you. And so, you can order either way with a Badger and we're the only ones in the world that offer that.F Geyrhalter:Well, it's 980 torque, I read and 906 horsepower. I mean, that's pretty unreal, right?Trevor:Yeah. It's a very pissed off truck and you have to be careful because it'll come off the ground. So we're having a lot of fun with it. And the best part is here, just in a few days, on June 29th, we're going to start accepting reservations of that. And we're going to show the real truck off here, at the end of this year, at Nikola World 2020. And I'm not talking about some show truck, I'm talking about a metal stamped, beautiful, gorgeous, fully-functioning interior, exterior, power windows, power seats, HVAC, just awesome truck. Every other person out there building trucks, half the features don't even work, because they're just show trucks. This is the real thing.F Geyrhalter:Well, I think you just totally hit the nail on its head, with this entire philosophy around it looking like the next awesome, but a bit more classy and way smarter truck. The design is really, really cool. I went to ArtCenter College of Design, which is a school known for its Transportation Design Alumni, shaping a lot of the industry. There is a lot of talk about tech and engineering with Nikola, but design is also extremely crucial to your company. Can you tell us a little bit about the design philosophy behind the brand and by now, I guess you have what? Six, seven different vehicles in the line?Trevor:So design is everything. I mean, listen, the reason why Apple is Apple, is because they have the greatest designs known to man. Their packaging is incredible, their experience is incredible and their product is stunning. And people don't get this. I mean, it's unbelievable how the automakers make the most ugly-ass vehicles you've ever seen and they expect them to sell. Nikola is, if you were to ever compare it to anything, the gorgeousness of what Apple does with their design and their products is very similar to what Nikola does. Every one of our products, you should see the battles that go on here at Nikola, with the design team and me.If people had a... If they were a fly on the wall, just the stories told would be funny because I come into my design studio and I'll tell my guys, I'm like, "Guys, I won't buy that. That's hideous. And I'll never allow that to be sold. You're going to fix that. And it's got to be something, if it will not sell me, no one will buy it." And it's brutal. You get in, sometimes you have to throw a whole vehicle away because you're like, "It just doesn't work. Nothing works. It doesn't work." And so the Nikola Badger, is probably the most gorgeous truck that's ever been built, in history, in my opinion. And a lot of people agree with that. And that's how all of our product lines are, even our big semi-truck, the Nikola Tre and the Nikola Two, worldwide they're known as the most beautiful semi-trucks ever designed. And imagine that, an American trying to build a European cabover, that's gorgeous.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:The Europeans can't even do that sometimes.F Geyrhalter:Yeah. And I think, one thing that is so important to point out is that a lot of these cars, they're like the future cars, right? You look at them and they don't really feel realistic. But what you guys are doing, you perfectly matched that idea of where people are today and what they expect the future to be, rather than these crazy idea cars that you can't even see them on the roads, right? So that's why I think what you guys did with the Badger is so perfect because it fits in today, yet it stands out. But it doesn't look like this awkward, I don't want to mention any of your competitors, but...Trevor:Well look, this is the thing about truck owners. I'll mention them, the people that are going to buy the Tesla Cybertruck are going to be Tesla fanatics. You're going to get a few people outside that are going to buy it, but it doesn't function as a real truck. It doesn't have the features of a real truck. Now, it's cool, when it comes to like, it's pushing the limits, but it's not a real truck. It doesn't have the visibility you get in a truck. It doesn't have the bed that you get in a truck. It doesn't have the ability to put a fifth wheel on it. A real truck needs to do what real trucks do. And so, we had to build a truck that was gorgeous, yet would function as a real truck. And we partnered up with, actually awesome, the Diesel Brothers. And it's really cool because the Diesel Brothers are known as building diesel trucks, right? They can break any truck ever built, they know how to modify every truck known to man and they know what parts fail.So it was interesting, because we got a lot of questions that said, "Why'd you partner up with Diesel Brothers? They do diesel, you guys are all about zero emission." And I'm like, "Yeah, but the Diesel Brothers, they don't stick their head in the sand and say, 'Oh, only diesel's ever going to function.' They came out and they said, 'Look, it is time now, the world's changing. And we want to be part of the greatest transformation of trucking engineering known to man. And it's going away from diesel right now, it's going to electric mobility.'" So we worked with the Diesel Brothers and they've really helped us build this pickup truck, to become a pickup truck that would never fail. And believe me, we're going to have failures, but we got the teams behind us to make sure that this truck is designed as a real truck.F Geyrhalter:And that's the power of partnerships, right? And understanding who to align yourself with, which is a huge, huge thing for entrepreneurs to learn.Trevor:Yes, this one really bothers me because I preach to people about how important it is to find people that are better than you, to work with. And to work with people that do things better than the things that you're not great at. And I went on this podcast and I got hammered by a lot of my competitors' fans. Because they're like, "Oh, Nikola doesn't do shit themselves. They outsource everything." No, that's not true. We do all the really important stuff, like intellectual property controls, software, hardware development, everything else, we do all that. But what we are not good at is building factories, right? And so these guys hammered us. I mean, all their followers, like tens of thousands are like, "Ah, Nikola's a total con job because they don't build their own factory. These guys are not Tesla."And I'm like, "Do you realize how many billions of dollars have been wasted by Tesla, because they didn't work with someone that knew how to build factories and do them..." I'm a big believer in working with people that are better than you. And so, I don't need to be so arrogant to say that I'm better than everyone at everything. I don't need to be better than everyone at everything. I need to be better than my competitors at one thing and I can beat them. And so, I think that's what we do is we're really good at partnerships. We're going to be signing a joint venture for the Nikola Badger with a big OEM and it's going to be sold, serviced, and warrantied through their dealership, all across America. And I get access to that, day one. I don't need to go out and spend $5 billion building our own service network.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:So I'm a big believer in partnerships.F Geyrhalter:And that's what happens when you failed a couple of startups and when you sold a couple of companies, right? I mean, that is just that kind of information that you gather throughout the journey. And a lot of people wouldn't understand that immediately. But we talked about you obviously competing head-on with Elon Musk. Tell me, is the Nikola brand name really derived from Tesla's first name, the actual inventor Nikola Tesla? Was that a "Go bold or go home" move of yours, where you said, "If we go in, we go fully in?"Trevor:Yeah. I mean, look, so it was named after the Serbian-Croatian brilliant mastermind that probably had a greater impact on society than anyone else in the world. He created the alternative current, the generator, the turbine, all kinds of things. This guy was the most brilliant electrical engineer known to man. He could power vehicles wirelessly. He could power homes wirelessly from miles away. Even today, we still don't know how he did it all.It was named after the inventor, Nikola Tesla, and it had nothing to do with Elon or Tesla themselves. They didn't even enter my mind when I was making this decision because I was naming it after the inventor. And just like millions of other people that looked up to that inventor, it's to pay tribute to him. Has nothing to do with the Tesla car company at all. It's just cool that Tesla is making one of the biggest impacts in the world for electric mobility in cars. And Nikola is making one of the biggest impacts in the world for Electromobility in trucks. And so, it is kind of cool to think about that, the fact that Nikola and Tesla are both kicking ass and beating everyone around the world.F Geyrhalter:And I noticed that you don't own a nikola.com, which is a very sad website for what appears to be a small electronics design engineering firm. There must have been a conversation to acquire the .com. What is the juicy story behind that domain name and how Nikola doesn't have the .com?Trevor:The name was taken already and the guy had no interest in selling it. So he may sell it one day, it's becoming more and more valuable. I'm sure he'll sell it to someone, it'll probably be someone who hates us and trashes us.F Geyrhalter:But no more interest from your end, you moved on.Trevor:No. Yeah. I mean look, everyone knows it's Nikola Motor. And when they look us up, it's already well established that way. We can see how many people actually type in our name and the wrong name and we might get 1% more that actually go to the right name. I don't care about the domain, it all comes down to the fact that it's Nikola Motor. It's not Nikola, it's Nikola Motor. So I don't know, who knows? If he ever wants to sell it, we talked but he had no desire to, and I'm sure our competitors will probably offer him some stupid amount of money and buy it.F Geyrhalter:Yeah. Or he might ring you now that you're IPO.Trevor:I'll give him one of the first Badgers, one of the most valuable thing. He'll love that.F Geyrhalter:Oh, there you go. Done, you heard it here first. So let's talk about the brand a little bit more. I know we only have 10 more minutes or so, to go. But when my brother and I were kids and we were on those long road trips across Europe, in my parent's tiny little Renault, we played the game on who could identify passing cars by brand, based on their rims and logos. When was that N brand, the brand mark on the badge, the N. When was it crafted for Nikola? I feel like this is a more recent addition to the company's branding, right?Trevor:No, it was actually from day one. The N, it was from day one and it was made to be almost like a superhero logo. So if you were to look at Superman or you were at one of the other ones, you'll notice that it's one letter and usually circled by something. And that's why we went with the Nikola, that's why we designed that was, it's an N with a border around it. And what that does is, you can see it from a mile away and you'll know it's Nikola. It's so distinguishable that nothing ever will confuse it. And that was the idea is, it truly is a superhero. And that's what's cool about it. You'll see it from a mile away and everyone will know it's a Nikola, playing that game in their car, with all their children.F Geyrhalter:That's exactly it. You would have passed the test. What does branding mean to you? I mean, after going through a couple of startups and now having achieved what very few entrepreneurs will ever achieve with the IPO, what does branding mean to your company?Trevor:I'd say there's three or four main pillars of building a company that will last forever and actually make money. Branding and design is one of them. Your team is another one, your team. And then your ability to communicate is one of the four pillars. There's a ton of them, right? But the idea is, your ability to communicate, which is part of branding. Branding and design is everything. People, they want to touch your product, they want to be proud of it. And they're not going to go drop 60 to $100,000 on a pickup truck if they don't think it's the most gorgeous thing that they've ever seen. And people have got to learn, branding and design is everything.It's one reason why I love Audi. Look, there is no better design company, I think in the world than Audi itself. Their team has got their shit down so good, when it comes to branding and design. It's probably the only thing that saved Volkswagen. And that's why you got to be an expert at branding and design. It's everything, it speaks to someone's soul. People have to be proud of representing what you have and that's why the branding and design's so important.F Geyrhalter:Well, and the brand is the soul of your company too, so it touches everything. It touches your company culture, HR, it goes pretty deep. And since your company is based on a strong purpose, on actually changing the world, I'm sure that that had ripple effects from the get-go. I'm sure you don't have a hard time hiring people in your company.Trevor:No.F Geyrhalter:If we think about the DNA of your brand, right? That one word that could describe your brand. I always love to figure out, what can it be, if we just put everything into one concise word? So if you think about Coca Cola, they really try to push the word, happiness, right? If you think about Zappos, it's definitely customer service, right? They're all about service. What is one word that could potentially describe your brand? What could be the brand DNA of your company, if you would have to put it in a funnel and really figure out like, what could be one word? Totally on the spot here. But I know you can do it.Trevor:It would be hard to put it on one word, but I'd say it's something along the lines of emissions, game over.F Geyrhalter:Yeah.Trevor:Everything we stand for, is getting rid of emissions and diesel is dead. It's everything around transformation. I would say probably transformation is really our... Because it transforms everything. It transforms, design, style, the culture, emissions. So if it had to be one word, probably transformation.F Geyrhalter:I think you nailed it nicely. You talked yourself through this one well. Communication, right? That's what it is. What's a final piece of brand advice for founders, as a takeaway? You already dropped a lot of them, but if you have someone listening, who's like, "Man, I would love to get my company to IPO. How do I do it?" Do you want to point them back to the LinkedIn article? Or is there something that is on your mind where you feel like, "Look, this is one thing that entrepreneurs just always, always mess up?"Trevor:No, there's two articles they need to go read. They're more powerful than anything I can say today, because I laid out with written words and they can study it. There's two articles. One's called A random airport encounter. And the other one's called How to get back up when you've lost everything. These two articles are the most powerful articles you'll ever read, in my opinion, as an entrepreneur ever. They're coming from the most painful position I've ever felt in my life, losing everything. It comes from a position of love and happiness and hope and explaining to people what it means to not give up. Everyone fails and you're going to fail hard. And the key is to never, ever quit, no matter how hard or how long it is, you can never, ever give up.And those articles are incredible because they go into detail. The airport one's about a kid who I met in the airport asking me, how he was going to college and he was thinking about becoming an entrepreneur and what advice I had for him. And I gave him a quick five minute thing in the airport. He had no idea who I was either, by the way, he had no clue.F Geyrhalter:That's great.Trevor:I was just talking to this kid. And then later he found out who I was and he sent me an email. And I gave him this written letter back and I posted this letter I gave him. And it's me writing to this kid. And I'm telling you, it's one of the most powerful letters you'll ever read. And I hope it's taught in every business school in the world because it's not like any letter you'll ever read. It's not written by a professor, it's written by pain. It's written by absolute failure and everything I learned in these situations. And then it's also written by hope, about how to get out of it.And that's a real life experience, of this shit storm you're going to go through to build your own company and ever get listed, is you better be ready to have battle wounds and scars all over your body and you better be ready to dedicate 10 years, or you're going to fail. And you're probably going to fail anyways. But then these are ways you can actually get back up and keep going. And eventually, like Mark Cuban says, all you got to do is hit it once. All you got to do is hit a home run one time, that's it and they'll love you, just do it once. It doesn't matter if it takes you five times, all you got to do is do at once.F Geyrhalter:Yeah. What was the most ginormous brand fail that you went through, with Nikola?Trevor:Say that again, I'm sorry. What were you asking?F Geyrhalter:What was the biggest brand fail that you went through, with Nikola, with the actual current-Trevor:What do you mean by brand fail? I haven't used that terminology here. What do you mean by brand fail?F Geyrhalter:Where do you feel like your company did something, from a branding perspective, where it just bombed, like maybe it was a statement that you put out or maybe it was a name you gave a certain vehicle or maybe you just communicated something in a certain way where afterwards you were like, "Oh, Whoa, that totally went the wrong way?"Trevor:Well, luckily we haven't had too many of those moments, because of a lot of the experiences I've had, but I'll tell you the one that made the biggest difference. When we first started out, there was no technology and fuel cell or battery electric yet. It was very, very new. And so we started out as a turbine electric, natural gas, hybrid truck. And that was the only technology available at the time. And that was pushing the limits. And I went to my board and I said, "Guys, the technology fuel cell is now far enough along and batteries, we have to pivot from this low-emission turbine to a fuel cell." And my board shit a brick. Like, "There's no way, we're already far down this road. We can't just pivot." And I said, "You don't know me. I don't care what the repercussions are."And this is something I teach in that letter, when you have a conviction of something, you better listen to yourself. And I said, "It's time to change, and I change it." And they freaked out. I mean, it was almost relationship severing, right? And sure enough, it was the biggest, greatest, smartest move we ever did, going zero emission. Once that technology was far enough along, we could pioneer it. And man, what an impact it made. And it's a single reason why we're here today. So to all the entrepreneurs out there, you better believe in yourself, and if you do, stand by your convictions, no matter what anyone tells you. You're the only one qualified to make those decisions. Don't listen to the people around you, make your own decisions.F Geyrhalter:Amen. I need to let you go, I promised you. So listeners who want to see your line of trucks or get their hands on the most badass zero-emission truck, as you call it, the Nikola Badger, where can they find you?Trevor:They can go to nikolamotor.com, that's where all of our products are. And then, they can also follow me on Twitter, nikolatrevor. And our company Twitter's nikolamotor. I would definitely follow me on Twitter, because you get data way faster than you get it anywhere else. So make sure you follow me on Twitter, @nikolatrevor.F Geyrhalter:Twitter's the new homepage. Awesome. Well, thank you Trevor, for having been on the show, especially after the IPO, this is a crazy week for you. So thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with my audience. We all really appreciate it.Trevor:Thank you so much. All right. Take care. Bye bye.F Geyrhalter:Awesome. Thanks. Bye Trevor.

The one where I recorded with my good buddy and former boss, Nelson Leiser. The vast majority of his career (22 years) has been spent in recruiting and he now leads the Talent Acquisition team at Bluegreen Vacations. He's extremely wise and was the best person I could possibly think of on my home team to bring on to encourage you during such a tough time in the job market. We talked about: Searching for a job and working for a mentor LinkedIn basics (and why you need to create a profile!) Interview skills Building your "book" and telling your career story Networking (and why it doesn't have to be an icky word) He's one of my favorite people and I can't wait for you to hear from him! Go check it out wherever you download your podcasts! Connect with Rebecca Dotson George Instagram | @rebeccadotsongeorge Facebook | Rebecca Dotson George Website | Do The Thing Movement Connect about Speaking | www.rebeccadotsongeorge.com Email | Say hello! Pinterest | Do The Thing Movement Become An Insider | Sign up here! Unedited Transcript Sample (view full transcript on the Do The Thing Movement website) Okay, Nelson. I am so excited to have you on the show today. This is so fun for me. And just excited to talk about job search, about interviewing about a lot of things that. Are really, probably heavy on the hearts of a lot of our listeners. However, you're the expert in all these things, which is why I love you and what people won't know when they start listening is you used to be my boss, which is so fun. And now years later, we get to talk about all this kind of fun stuff and just kind of unpack your wisdom, which I'm super excited about. So I'd love for you to start by just telling everybody a little bit about you, about the work that you've done for. Gosh, how many years now? 21 years. And just your experience kind of in this space before we jump into all the things. Yeah, sure. Hey, listen, I am pumped that I made it on your show. I wasn't sure I'd make the cut. So I'm honored to be here, I guess I'll pass the interview. So that's good news. I have worked in recruiting for 22 years, a variety of different organizations. I started with staffing firms, which just meant I worked in companies that helped other companies find talent. Uh, and again, a large variety of roles. Uh, I guess when I looked back at that nine year period, before I got into corporate recruiting, uh, had a hundred different. Companies that are supported over that period. Not all at once, but a lot of different types of jobs, different industries, mom, and pops, billion dollar corporations, a lot of different sizes, right. Uh, have worked in sales recruiting a majority of the time that I've been on the corporate side. Um, I had a three and a half year run in healthcare help to build a team from the ground up here in the Knoxville region. And that was a lot of fun. Um, my sweet spot really is sales recruiting. That's what I enjoy the most for sure.

What's Good? Trip got a promotion and Juan opened a secret safe! AND we watched some anime! Whoaaa!!   News Cyberpunk 2077 Edgerunner anime announced to air in 2022 with music by Akira Yamaoka. The World Ends With You Nintendo DS game will receive an anime adaptation. Summer anime air dates announced. Keep an eye out starting July 3rd! Fate/stay night: Heaven's Feel III. spring song will premier on August 15th. Why The Hell Are You Here, Teacher?! Uncensored Edition is coming to HiDIVE. So I'm a Spider. So What? will be 2 cour airing in January 2021.   Spring Anime 2020 Wrap-Up Gleipnir- Studio Pine Jam (Gamers!, Just Because!) Wave, Listen to Me!- Sunrise (Cowboy Bebop, Daily Lives of High School Boys) Ascendance of a Bookworm- Ajia-Do (Izetta: The Last Witch, Kakushigoto) Tower of God- Telecom Animation Film (Orange, All Out!!)   Our intro artist! Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/tomnasr Instagram: @tom_nasr Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/SuperArmhair                Contact Us: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/instantramenpodcast/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/InstantRamenPod Instagram: http://instagram.com/instantramenpodcast E-mail: instantramenpodcast@gmail.com Twitch: twitch.tv/krispother Blog: https://instantramenpodcast.blogspot.com/

BE SURE TO SEE THE SHOWNOTES AND LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE HERE. Eve Picker: [00:00:13] Hi there, thanks so much for joining me today for the latest episode of Impact Real Estate Investing.   Eve: [00:00:19] My guest today is Thibault (Tee-bo) Manekin, the founder and CEO of Seawall Development. Seawall is rolling out the red carpet for teachers. They are building high quality, affordable housing, which in itself is a big task. Layer that with the inclusionary design process they employ and the fact that they are creating this housing by restoring large and stunning vacant buildings and seawall is altogether fantastic.   Eve: [00:00:55] Be sure to go to evepicker.com to find out more about Thibault on the show notes page for this episode. And be sure to sign up for my newsletter so you can access information about impact real estate investing and get the latest news about the exciting projects on my crowdfunding platform, Small change.   Eve: [00:01:15] Hi Thibault, I'm really excited to talk to you today.   Thibault Manekin: [00:01:20] Hi Eve, I'm excited to talk to you, too. Thank you for having us.   Eve: [00:01:23] It's a pleasure. So, you started your company by building quality, affordable housing for teachers, and that's a really targeted mission and I'm wondering what led you to this work?   Thibault : [00:01:36] Yes, I probably have to go back a little further than that. When I first graduated from college at around 21 years old, I helped, with two buddies, we started an international non-profit organization called Playing for Peace. It's called PeacePlayers Today. And the idea is that we would go to war-torn countries and we would use sports to get kids from two sides of a conflict, meet each other, finding common ground and eventually becoming friends. So, we raised about eight thousand dollars and was enough to get on a plane to Durban, South Africa, at the time, where we were going to try to get, use sports to get black kids and white kids post-apartheid meeting each other, finding common ground, becoming friends. And it had an amazing run with that organization, really grew it to be quite international. We had a program in Northern Ireland with Protestant and the Catholic kids, Cypress, the Middle East, with Israeli and Palestinian kids.   Thibault : [00:02:36] So in all of my travels with PeacePlayers, one of the reoccurring things that I continued to notice was that real estate had done more to tear us apart than bring us together, especially with my experience in South Africa, seeing what the apartheid government had done with townships and informal settlements. And then, as I would make trips back to my home city of Baltimore, seeing the negative effects of redlining. So I came back, I think it was around 2006 and I asked my dad, who's a hero of mine, to go out to dinner and I pitched this idea of starting a company, a real estate company, but with the idea of really reimagining the real estate industry all together so that everything that we did used buildings and the built environment to empower communities, unite our cities and help to launch really powerful ideas. You know, I had seen the impact of reimagining the sports industry to bring people together, especially young people, and I wanted to do more with it. And if real estate was indeed the most powerful connected industry on the planet, then truly reimagined, there'd be the opportunity to bring people together in ways that possibly hadn't been done before.   Thibault : [00:03:53] So, we launched this company. And, you know, we had an amazing dinner conversation around what we were going to focus on first. And my dad did spend a long time in real estate but was really passionate around education. And he had done a ton of listening to all of these new teachers and first year teachers that were showing up to Baltimore, maybe for the first time, and were having a really tough time figuring out the city. Figuring out where to live, figuring out who to live with, figuring out their classes and jumping into arguably what's the hardest profession on the planet, educating the future generation. He basically was like, there's a great opportunity to continue to listen to this community of educators and provide them what they're asking for, which at the time was collaborative, affordable, well located, funky housing that would take the mystery for them out of where to live, provide them the ability to live some place special with like-minded people, which hopefully, over time, would translate to them agreeing to stay in the classroom for longer, falling in love with education, falling in love with our city of Baltimore, and maybe even making a permanent investment in buying their own home once they had a better lay of the land and been able to save some money as a result of staying in one of our projects.   Eve: [00:05:20] So, basically really supporting the pool of teachers who serve our city and, our cities, and really can't afford to live in them anymore.   Thibault : [00:05:29] That was the idea behind it. And we coupled it with a similar thread that we'd been listening to, which was that there were all of these non-profits focused on kids and education and supporting the school system. Programs like Teach for America and Playworks and Wide-angle Youth Media and Baltimore Urban Debate League. They were spread out in dozens of buildings all over Baltimore all essentially doing the same kind of work around kids but with no ability to really deeply collaborate. And so, these non-profits who focused on kids and education and come to us and said it would be amazing if we could all be located under one roof, if we could share resources and have free conference rooms and training facilities that we don't need all of the time but that we need throughout the day at different times. And so, our first project ended up becoming called the Center for Educational Excellence. We've always looked for a cooler name than that but that's the one that's kind of stuck. And it was a adaptive reuse of one hundred thousand square foot collapsing old factory building that got turned into about 40 apartments for teachers and thirty thousand square feet of collaborative office space for the non-profits underpinning the success of the school system.   Eve: [00:06:43] That's a pretty big project to tackle for a first project.   Thibault : [00:06:46] It was funny. Yeah, we look back on it and, you know, when we first started the company, which is called Seawall, we weren't sure if it was ever going to make it. And we had kind of said that we would, you know we'd been listening to teachers for so long, we'd probably buy a little four-unit row home and converted it into four apartments for teachers and that would be the first thing that we would do, which would probably cost four or five hundred thousand dollars. And our first project ended up costing 20 million dollars and we had no business taking on a project of that scale. And, you know, we can get into the movement that came as a result of it and what really propelled us forward. But that was, yes, that was our first project.   Eve: [00:07:31] How do you involve teachers in the process of creating these buildings? You've done three now, right? Three for teachers, is that correct?   Thibault : [00:07:39] We have, we have. So, everything that we've ever done has been built inside out. And what we mean by that is that we start with the end users, the people that are going to be living and working in our buildings. It's important for us that they have a sense of pride, of authorship and ownership in what's getting created. So, we start out by deeply listening to those people that are going to be occupying our spaces. And we let them drive the direction and the program of the space. We don't ever pretend to have any of the answers. Our job's to be quietly behind the scenes, asking the questions that held their thinking forward in a way that results in a finished product that makes them really proud and allows them to be more successful in whatever it is that they're doing.   Thibault : [00:08:29] So in the case of the teachers, we assembled a group of, a focus group of about 10. We walked them through the collapsing building as we first bought it. They worked with our design team over the course of twelve months to design every square inch of their apartments. We let them pick their own amenities they needed like a resource center in the building that had access to copiers and laminating machines and staplers and hole punchers, so that they could plan their lessons within the building and not have to run out to Kinko's in the middle of the night. We did the same thing with our non-profits. We let our teachers choose their own rents based on the salaries that they had and what felt like an affordable rent for them to be paying. And we really spent a ton of time with both the teachers and the non-profits from day one, letting them design what is their building.   Thibault : [00:09:19] I want to add something to that, because there are two other levels that we really focus on. As important as the teachers are, and whoever the end user is for any specific project we're working on, equally as important is the community that we're working with that. At the end of the day, they're the ones that have been staring at these dilapidated, collapsing old buildings and it's critical that they have a seat at the table in helping to shape what those new buildings are going to get turned into.   Thibault : [00:09:50] One of the things that developers are famous for, kind of going into a community and telling the community what they're going to get, and we take the complete opposite approach. In the case of the first teacher housing project, we went to our first neighborhood association meeting, introduced ourselves and explained that a bunch of teachers and non-profits had this idea of creating the first Center for Educational Excellence and that the building that seemed to be a good fit for that was this one building in their neighborhood. And they loved the idea. And for the most part, everyone was thrilled.   Thibault : [00:10:24] And I remember this one young man stood up and raised his hand, kind of defiantly, at the end of the meeting as if he was going to oppose the project and he, he said look, as great as this is, what you're missing is a little cafe or coffee shop on the corner of Howard and Twenty Sixth Street, which is where the project was. And there is no decent place to get a fresh sandwich or a good cup of coffee in this neighborhood and that would be an amazing thing if you guys could figure out a way to program a cafe into the corner there. And then he continued to say that if we brought in a Starbucks that they would throw rocks through the window at night when we weren't there, that it was really important that it be locally owned.   Thibault : [00:11:06] So I'm sitting there, and I think that what this guy is suggesting is a terrible idea. The corner of Howard and Twenty Sixth Street is, at the time, was not a corner that anybody would feel safe walking to. We had programmed a two-bedroom apartment for a teacher to go in, for teachers to go in there. And that seemed way less risky than putting a coffee shop that we really had no control over and just didn't feel like a retail type of location. But the community had spoken up and everybody kind of clapped and applauded and thought that it was a great idea. And so, we listened, and we took out the two-bedroom apartment, made space for a little thousand square foot coffee shop that ended up being one of the most powerful things that we did.   Thibault : [00:11:50] A local co-op started. They called themselves Charmington's, and they opened up this rad little cafe that just was the place to meet in the community. It was the place to have a affordable cup of coffee, to come and chat, big communal tables and just a really beautiful vibe. So inspiring was this little cafe and the co-op and ownership behind it that, jeez, I guess, five or six years ago I was in it and unannounced, President Barack Obama showed up to speak with the owner and they had been working on something together and it was just such an inspiring moment. And it kind of goes to show the power of giving up control of the perceived ownership and authorship of a project to the end users in the community and the momentum that that can build in a project, especially a really complicated project coming to life.   Eve: [00:12:54] So, and I suspect it did more than just give something to the community. It probably added something pretty spectacular to the teacher community, having that.   Thibault : [00:13:03] Yeah, yeah. Charmington's was amazing. You know, they committed to opening up at 6:00 a.m. so that the teachers on their way to school in the morning could stop and get a cup of coffee. One of the things that our management team is, we ended up setting up a property management company to manage every one of our properties because we've interviewed all these third-party property management groups and it felt like if you were about to have a baby, or had a baby, and you were going to give it to somebody else to raise. Like, nobody was going to love it as much as we would. And so, we set up this property management company. One of the things we did is, once a month at like five thirty in the morning, we would post up at the entrance and exit to the building and we'd be there with Charmington's coffees and muffins and bagels and fruit. And we would, like, serve the teachers a cup of coffee and we'd walk them to their cars with their books if they had too much to carry and just kind of send them on their way with like a big hug and a warm smile and a fresh cup of Charmington's coffee.   Eve: [00:14:03] That's a very nice story. So, I have to ask, every developer has stories about putting in an amenity like a roof deck that everyone says they want and then no one uses them, right? So, did that, has that happened at all? The teachers who were involved and the amenities that were requested, have they been used?   Thibault : [00:14:26] Yeah, so look, so the amenities include like fitness centers and lounges and free gated parking. The one amenity that's evolved is the idea of a resource center, right? The room where the teachers can make their, plan their lessons and photocopy. When we first built the building in 2008 or 2009, when it opened, teachers were still going to Kinko's to make photocopies of their lessons. The evolution was that the classroom got more digital and people stopped making photocopies and printing hundreds of pages to hand out to students. And as that trend started, the need for the resource room, for the most part, went away entirely.   Eve: [00:15:19] So amenities evolve, right? And needs evolve it's pretty fascinating. Going back to something you said earlier, which was that you allowed tenants to basically choose their own rent. How did you fill the inevitable financing gap? Because you can't possibly restore a building like that and provide affordable housing without some sort of, I suppose, funny money, right?   Thibault : [00:15:44] Yes. This is a beautiful story and really a learning moment for us. You know, we had set off to do a project that would cost about five or six hundred thousand dollars to start. And we kept striking out. And eventually, a friend of ours pointed us to this collapsing old factory building that was way past our ability to wrap our heads around at the beginning. And we worked with the teachers and they told us what their rents needed to be. And the non-profits the same thing. And then we kind of backed into how much debt we could afford. And so, the number based on the net operating income was that we could afford about six million dollars’ worth of debt. And we went out and had a architect and contractor help us figure out what it would cost to build, this being our first project. And the price tag came back at 20 million dollars, all in for the project. So, we had a 14-million-dollar gap in our capital stack, which to most would have felt insurmountable but we were so driven by this, this movement of providing amazing space for the people doing the most important work in our cities that we were never going to give up on it.   [00:16:54] And we called a good friend of ours from Enterprise Community Partners, Bart Harvey. Enterprise was the brainchild of the late Jim Rouse, A total urban visionary. And we toured him through the building. Most of the people who we toured throughout the building told us we were crazy and that the idea would never work. And we toured Bart through the building and we went out for coffee afterwards and we told him about this fourteen-million-dollar gap and he said, Guys, I know just what to do. You're in good hands now.   Thibault : [00:17:25] And I'll never forget that moment. He started to tell us about Historic Tax Credits, which is a program that for every dollar you invest in keeping a historic building, rehabbing it, the federal and state government give you a tax credit for that which turns into actual equity into the project. There is also something called the New Market Tax Credits, which we knew nothing about, which encouraged commercial investment in low income census tracts. And so, Bart starts telling us about all this and he starts making introductions around the country. And before you know it, the phone's ringing off, ringing off the hook with all these great community-driven lending institutions who want to be a part of the first Center for Educational Excellence. And with Bart's help and Enterprise's help we ended up closing that gap with all of those tax credits. We were still short about a million and a half dollars and we went to the city and state and just pled with them of the importance that this project had to the education community and to the neighborhood that it was going to be located in. And they collectively came up with that last million and a half dollars of, you know, fairly soft money. Certainly, we would owe it back at the end of the day, but the terms were super flexible. It allowed the building to, kind of, really ramp up and stabilize. So, when you kind of have the vision set for you, as hard as it's going to be to get there, there's always a way to push it forward. And it was an incredible learning opportunity for us around really not giving up when things got complicated and pushing forward. no matter how challenging the situation was.   Eve: [00:19:18] Yeah, I've done projects like that, they're extremely challenging but very fulfilling. So, have you been able to stick to the choose your own rent mantra? Like, what happens now that the building, I suppose the first building, is stabilized?   Thibault : [00:19:30] Yeah. I mean, look, for sure, you know, the first building's been a great success as a result of that and I'll say, I will point out that when we started leasing the property, the entire building was fully leased nine months before we finished construction. And by the time we finished, there was a waiting list of over 300 teachers waiting to get in. There was clearly a demand for it. I mean, I think that was driven by all these teachers spreading the word and have it go viral organically.   Thibault : [00:20:03] You know, we've got this crazy developer that let us choose our own rent and pick our own amenities. He's building this brand new building for us, it will probably never work, but if it does you've got to get in. And as a result of, kind of, the collective success of the first projects we got invited to do another one in Baltimore, and then we were asked to replicate the model in some other cities across the country. And yeah, across the board, we've held our rents low for teachers. They've certainly crept up. it's been kind of maybe 12 or 13 years since the first project was completed. But we've actually had to artificially freeze the rents, even though expenses continue to go up, to remain committed to the teachers and what seems affordable to them.   Eve: [00:20:49] And so how many units have you built to date?   Thibault : [00:20:52] I think we've probably built around 400 apartments to date.   Eve: [00:21:01] OK, a hefty number.   Thibault : [00:21:02] Yeah, it's a huge number considering where we started. You know, the original goal was to start off a little four-unit apartment buildings.   Eve: [00:21:11] Very different.   Thibault : [00:21:11] We've ended up doing about three hundred million dollars of really transformative, collaborative real estate projects over the last decade.   Eve: [00:21:20] So I have to ask, is there another group of needy tenants that you'd like to serve beyond teachers? It's really interesting because I see that the very targeted mission has actually helped market the projects for you.   Thibault : [00:21:34] Yeah, look, we get a lot of requests to figure out a way to do some sort of similar housing for nurses, right. And first responders and police officers, many of whom can't afford to live in the districts that they're working in. And we've been evaluating that over the years. I think one of the things that's been really fascinating to us is the impact of retail on communities and especially locally owned small businesses that reflect the demographics of the neighborhoods that they're in, or not. Small retail, especially in today's e-commerce world, is increasingly challenging. And finding really creative ways to provide space for these social entrepreneurs and small businesses to take real risk and to get their ideas out in the open is something that I think is really critical, a critical next step and something that we're really studying very closely.   Thibault : [00:22:44] We've done a couple projects around that. And the more we learn and the more challenging we understand it to be, the more inspired we are to figure out ways to continue to push that forward.   Eve: [00:22:57] So what other projects are you working on right now? I think I read somewhere, a market building that you tackling?   Thibault : [00:23:04] We organically happened in to the food hall world. We don't like to think of it as a food hall. About five years ago, a group of chefs in Baltimore approached us and asked us to do for them what we had done for teachers, which was to provide collaborative plug-and-play space at affordable rents where they could focus 100 percent of their energy and attention on what they do great - cooking, good food - and leave the, like, back-end side of running a restaurant to us. And we launched a project called R. House (R period House). It was incredibly successful, and we had 10 chefs open up. We had over 100 chefs apply for the 10 spots and we really looked at ourselves as a launchpad, not as a food hall but a launch pad for creating community and for helping chefs launch really inspiring ideas.   Thibault : [00:24:03] As a result of the work that we did with that, of the success of that project, we were invited to apply for RFP for the redevelopment and really the saving, of the oldest, longest continuously running public market in the country. A project called Lexington Market in Baltimore City that at one point was the place to be in Baltimore. My dad tells stories of taking the trolley down there on Saturdays with his father and literally, you didn't start a weekend before showing up at some point at Lexington Market. That area where Lexington is in, has suffered from significant disinvestment and it's really a shell of its former self and the market was at risk of closing. And so, we responded to the RFP with this idea of, on a citywide scale, doing the deepest listening that we've ever done and helping to breathe a new life back in, in essence, transforming Lexington Market into something that would work for the entire city of Baltimore. It's the largest, most complicated, riskiest project that we've ever taken on. But it's also the most soul fulfilling one that we've ever done. It literally checks every box of things that interest us as a company. And it's pushed us so far out of our comfort zone that the amount of learning that we're doing on a daily basis is so inspiring and I keep telling everybody that asks about it and I keep reminding our team that it's impossible that we're going to get this right the first time, even with the deepest listening that we're doing. A project of this scale and magnitude is going to continue to grow organically. Our job and our role is to set it up, to evolve to be what all of Baltimore expects it to be and wants it to be as they close their eyes and dream of what this project should be.   Eve: [00:26:08] It sounds pretty fabulous. I cannot wait to visit it. When I travel, the local market is always the first place I go because I think it's kind of the life and heart of every city. They’re always fascinating places, I think, so it's really great to hear that it's being revived. Have your plans for housing or housing amenities or the market changed at all with the pandemic? That's a tough question, but I'm going ask - it's a pretty tough time.   Thibault : [00:26:36] It's a beautiful question. We think about it and we talk about it every single day. The challenge with the pandemic is that a plan you make one day is no good by the time you wake up the next morning just because, like, everything is changing so rapidly. I think we're in a really fortunate place because all of the work that we've done has been around providing affordable, kind of, workforce, discounted apartments. And I think there will always be a need for that product.   Thibault : [00:27:11] We are watching it really closely. We're trying to wrap our heads around how we can be even more helpful and supportive in these rapidly changing times, especially as it relates to how people live and interact with each other. But we don't have any of the answers yet, and we're just continuing to ask the questions that help us wrap our arms around what role we can play in that.   Eve: [00:27:35] Yeah, I worry very much about places like the little coffee shop surviving this and I have a number of tenants myself and I've been, sort of, we've been limping through this disaster trying to figure it out. So, it's a big question but let's move on to something happier and that is like, you know, what's your big hairy goal. Where are you going with all of this?   Thibault : [00:28:00] Yeah, look, a lot of people ask us that question for me and for us it's somewhat simple, right? Like, our goal and the work that we do is almost 100 percent driven by the communities that we work in. We want real estate to put the power back into the hands of the communities. So, this neighborhood where we did our first project for teachers, the neighborhood's called Remington in Baltimore City. As a result of the relationship that we formed with the community associations that are there, they came up with this master plan of other things that they wanted to see happen in their community.   Thibault : [00:28:41] And we worked with them, we did a lot of listening and we've slowly but surely been chipping away at that master plan. We've helped to bring the first bank to the community. We've helped to bring the first pharmacy to the community. We've helped to bring the first dry cleaner to the community, the hair shops and hair places, the gyms. And all of it's been done in an incredibly inclusive way where we've just, kind of, continued to ask what else, what else could serve you guys and what else do you guys think that you're missing?   Thibault : [00:29:14] So in large part, our work's been driven by the communities that we're in and the cities that we're in and what they collectively think that they're missing. And what role real estate and what role our company Seawall can play in helping them realize their dreams.   Eve: [00:29:30] It sounds like you're having fun. I have to ask; do you think socially responsible real estate is necessary in today's development landscape?   Thibault : [00:29:40] I don't know that necessary is the right word. I think mandatory should be the right word, especially with how quickly the conversation has been changing and especially with how aware we all must be around the inequalities that real estate has spread throughout our communities in our country. To sit on the sideline and pass blame on previous generations for how things are and hope that somebody else is going to fix it, is no longer an option. Now, more than ever, we are fully aware of it and we all have a responsibility to ask what role we can play in helping communities, especially disenfranchised communities, use real estate and buildings to help them achieve what it is their they're after.   Eve: [00:30:35] Yes. So, are there any other current trends in real estate development that you think are most important for the future of our cities? Maybe things that you're not working on?   Thibault : [00:30:48] Look, I think transportation is such an important part around the real estate and urban planning conversation and the cities that have gotten it right, and who are getting it right, are the ones that we all need to look to. Without adequate and exceptional public transportation, so much of this work that we're all doing is just going to have its growth stunted. And I think that's one of the most important things that cities and urban planners need to be thinking through, is exceptional public transportation.   Eve: [00:31:28] Of course, that's shifting rapidly at the moment too, with the pandemic. So, we don't even know really what that will look like. But perhaps the ideal is that, you know, the next time you build a building for teachers, they won't need to have on-site parking. They'll have transit that can get them to their jobs. So, whatever that looks like. Yeah, I totally agree with you. And what community engagement tools have you seen that have worked best? It's always very difficult for most developers to contemplate how to engage a community.   Thibault : [00:32:09] Look for us, it's been really important to come into a community as neighbors and not guests. And we've lived our entire professional career that way. And I think that's really one of the differentiating factors around connecting with communities. Not just, kind of, coming in and being one and done, but spending real time there, sitting on people's front porches and stoops and listening to what it is that they want. Those are the really important lessons that we've learned along the years, over the years, as we've worked in the communities where we have.   Eve: [00:32:52] Yeah, I can see that. It's perhaps not part of the original job description for a developer, but it's certainly a really important one. So, I have one final question, and that's what's next for you?   Thibault : [00:33:08] We've been asking ourselves what's next for us for some time now, and I think that conversation has been amplified given what's going on in the world around us. One of the things that we're really aware of is the unintended consequences of successful development. You know, when we set out to do the first teacher housing project in that neighborhood of Remington, fully supported by the community, it was all high fives and hugs. And then when we worked with the community to start to chip away at their master plan to bring in all of these resources in retail and apartments and office space, all kind of things driven by the neighborhood, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars later, that little, somewhat forgotten community had become one of the premier destinations and places to be in the city. And as a result of that, the gentrification conversation became very real. And one thing that we're really aware of is that we cannot run from it. We are responsible for it. And in hindsight, as well-intentioned as we were, we would have done more from the very beginning to make sure that if the neighborhood succeeded, people that had lived there for generations, the legacy residents, would never be displaced. And there's been incredibly hard lessons learned along the way.   Thibault : [00:34:43] And so, our mandate, and one of the things that we think so much about today, is now that it is what it is. It's not too late. And how can we creatively work with the community to continue to find ways for them to attain their development goals? But in a way that is going to really limit displacement and make sure that nobody's ever kicked out of their store or their office or the home that they lived in for decades. And that's really hard work.   Eve: [00:35:18] It is, it's really hard to balance.   Thibault : [00:35:21] Yeah, it's really hard to balance and it's incredibly vulnerable. But it is something that we're committed to and as we approach new communities and new projects, we're even more aware of it going in at the early stage so that we can plan and get ahead of it if the development projects succeed.   Eve: [00:35:21] So, do you think, I mean I think about this a lot too, do you think government has a role in this?   Thibault : [00:35:44] Yeah, I'm hesitant to pass the blame on to...   Eve: [00:35:49] I'm just saying, you know, by the time a community is feeling the pain of gentrification, it's too late. It's over, right? So, I think a lot about what you could put in place decades before to encourage good development and investment in neighborhoods that need it, and safeguard people who are already there. It's hard to think about. But I think you have to think about a long time before you show up.   Thibault : [00:36:19] You do. And you interviewed a friend of mine, Brian Murray, in Philadelphia that's done things a little bit of the opposite way as us with Shift Capital. They went in and bought millions of square feet of projects with the idea of having gotten in early enough, bought it at the right price, and being able to have the community involved every step of the way as the neighborhood starts to meet its goals.   Eve: [00:36:47] And controlling real estate so they could control what happened to it, right?   Thibault : [00:36:51] Yep. You know, ours has been a little bit of the opposite. We've just been kind of, like, piecemealing things together totally unintentionally, just driven by what the neighborhoods wanted. But as a result of that, and it'd success, now other landlords are taking advantage of the rising tide and not doing it in an inclusive way that honors the people that have been there forever. So, it's a little too late, it's hard to buy anything in that community and invest in it in a way that would keep it affordable. And that's the challenge.   Eve: [00:37:28] It's a huge challenge. I'd love to know what strategy you come up with for your next community. I think it's a really important challenge because not doing anything is bad too, right? These communities need investment because they're disintegrating, and they haven't been invested in for a long time and then when you invest, you become an unhappy player in the gentrification game, which is not what we intend, right Very difficult.   Eve: [00:38:00] Ok, well, thank you very much for this conversation. And I'd love to hear what you're doing next. You're tackling some really huge projects, and I really appreciate what you're doing.   Thibault : [00:38:13] Yes, thank you so much. I've enjoyed listening to some of your past episodes, and it's certainly a little bit of a niche market but you're asking all the right questions. And I've enjoyed learning from your past guests over time so keep up the great work!   Eve: [00:38:29] OK, thanks, Thibault. You have a really great day. Bye.   Thibault : [00:38:32] You too. Thanks so much.   Eve: [00:38:45] That was Thibault Manekin, Seawall believes in reimagining the real estate development industry. They want the built environment to empower communities, unite our cities and help launch powerful ideas. Seawall's projects tackle three things. First, they want to save large, historic and blighted buildings. Second, they want to create affordable communities with rents that are customized to pay checks. And finally, they strive to be inclusive in the communities they work in.   Eve: [00:39:19] You can find out more about impact, real estate investing and access to the show notes for today's episode at my website evepicker.com. While you're there, sign up for my newsletter to find out more about how to make money in real estate while building better cities.   Eve: [00:39:36] Thank you so much for spending your time with me today. And thank you, Thibault, for sharing your thoughts with me. We'll talk again soon but for now, this is Eve Picker signing off to go make some change.

Scott talks to Hans Kristensen about the state of the world’s nuclear weapons arsenals. Immediately after the Cold War, says Kristensen, the U.S. and Russia drastically reduced their nuclear stockpiles, making the world significantly safer. Since then, however, this trend toward disarmament has begun to slow and even to reverse. At the same time, more countries have developed their own nuclear weapons programs. Scott thinks this has more to do with the financial incentives of the military-industrial complex than it does with the possibility for real global hostilities—but that doesn’t make the situation any less dangerous. Discussed on the show: “SIPRI Yearbook 2020” (SIPRI) “Nuclear weapon modernization continues but the outlook for arms control is bleak” (SIPRI) Hans M. Kristensen is an Associate Senior Fellow with the SIPRI Disarmament, Arms Control and Non-proliferation Programme and Director of the Nuclear Information Project at the Federation of American Scientists. Follow him on Twitter @nukestrat. This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com. Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htvZgC4tD5M The following is an automatically generated transcript. Show TranscriptScott Horton 0:00 For Pacifica radio June 28 2020. I'm Scott Horton. This is anti war radio. All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. All right, you guys introducing Hans Kristensen from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. And he is also at the Federation of American Scientists as well and SIPRI that's sipri.org. have just put out their latest study the sipper yearbook 2020. And part of that, of course, focuses on nuclear weapons, and they have a story here at sipri.org nuclear weapon modernization continues, but the outlook for arms control is bleak. Welcome to show Hans. How are you, sir? Hans Kristensen 1:25 Thanks for having me. Scott Horton 1:26 Very happy to have you here. So I'm sorry, I didn't get a chance to read the whole PDF file and everything here. It's been a very busy time. But I did read the introductory article here. And there's so many important points brought up here. But I guess if we could just start with reminding the audience which all countries are armed with nuclear weapons, and approximately how many of them etc, like that, if you could? Hans Kristensen 1:51 Yeah, so they're about they're now nine countries today that have nuclear weapons. And that's the United States and Russia, France, Britain, China. India, Pakistan, Israel and North Korea. And all together, they possess something in the order of 13,400 nuclear warheads. Most of those are in what you can sort of call military stockpiles that are ready to use on relatively short notice. But there's also a chunk of them some something in the order of 1800 to 2000 that are on high alert, they're ready to fire within just minutes. Scott Horton 2:28 And then, and those are mostly America and Russia's, Hans Kristensen 2:32 the alert weapons are American, Russian, French and British. Yes. Scott Horton 2:38 And then, is there a ratio handy about how many of these are vision bombs versus thermonuclear h bombs. Hans Kristensen 2:46 Almost all of them are thermal nuclear weapons to stage, thermonuclear weapons.

James: Hey, audience and listeners, this is James Kandasamy with Achieve Wealth Through Value at Real Estate Investing Podcast. Today I have Ellie Perlman from California. Allie, did I say your name correctly? Ellie: Yeah. Yeah, you nailed it. James: Awesome. Awesome. Ellie is a sponsor who owns like 2000 units as a GP and LP. And as a GP and as an active operator, she owns almost 770 units asset under management, almost 100 million dollars in assets. And she focuses a lot on Texas, Florida,, and Georgia, all the States. That's our opening early. And she's in California right now. Has California opened? Ellie: Not at all. So I live in Santa Monica. It's part of the LA County and we're one of the last counties to actually reopen. So Orange County, they've reopened the economy a little bit so you can sit at restaurants. Here, it's kind of a ghost town. We can't do anything. James: Got it. Yeah. That's awesome. That's a complete difference within a business-friendly state and a non-business friendly state, I guess, but that's okay. Yeah. Ellie, welcome to the show. Why don't you tell our audience about things that I would have missed out about you? Ellie:   Sure. James. So I'm really happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I've been in real estate for over a decade now. I've experienced 2008. I was not an investor back then, I was a commercial real estate lawyer. And I've learned a lot from my clients, mistakes, especially, being aggressive and not, how conservative and what that can do to you in times of recession. And that turned me into a very, very conservative operator and investor. I'm basically originally from Israel. I was born and raised in Israel and I moved to the States about six years ago. I went to MIT and got my MBA degree and shortly after, started purely capital and decided that, Hey, you know, I was in commercial real estate law, I also did property management backing Israel, and now it's come full circle, and investment in multifamily properties was the thing that I wanted to do, I saw a lot of potentials there. Especially the resilience of that asset class is what drew me to multifamily mainly, that's the main reason among many good reasons. And yeah, that's what we do. I mean, we buy class B properties in A and B areas. We like value-add deals like many other operators and for a good reason. And we're very hands-on when it comes to operating and managing properties. And, as you mentioned, we invest in Texas, Florida, and Georgia. They reopened the economy probably several months now, I don't know if that was the right decision to do it now but it definitely helps with collections and with leasing activities as what we see today. James: Yeah. Yeah. You're living in a really two great worlds in California with the nice weather and a good investment world in Texas, Florida, and Georgia so that's awesome. So let's go into details about your deals of this what you have the 700 units where you are the operator. When did you get started? And I mean, what was the aha moment that when you are a commercial lawyer, what is that aha moment to say, okay, I'm in the wrong profession. I better go to the other side. Ellie: Well, pretty early on, I remember that at some point I was with one of many, many meetings 'cause lawyers love meetings. 'Cause we actually, you know... James: Make money out of the meetings. Ellie: Exactly. And one of the many meetings, I was sitting there was a round table, really big conference room and my clients were actually developers and they were building apartment buildings, actually, in East Europe. And I remember thinking, I'm sitting on the wrong side of the table. I need to be them. I need to be the entrepreneur. I need to be the investor. Because as a lawyer, if you work, you bill, every hour is a billable hour and you can make nice money. If you don't work, there's no income, there's no money unless you're a partner and you bring some clients, but that's a whole different story. And I realized that I wanted something that has more cashflow streams and something that I can grow in. When you're relying only on your own profession, 100% on your 10 fingers in what you do every day, there's a limit to how much you can make. There's a limit to how much, you know, your income is capped. And in addition, I found it more exciting to actually be part, I want to take part in the action. I wanted to search for properties. I wanted to speak with investors and that looked a lot more interesting and exciting than representing them and negotiating with banks, creating contracts, negotiating with vendors and contractors, and subcontractors. I learned a lot, but I felt that I have some potential that it was not being fulfilled by doing what I was doing at that time. And that was my kind of aha moment. James: Got it. Got it. Sometimes while we're doing our full-time job: lawyer, doctor engineers, or in any W2 jobs, I mean, sometimes you have that feeling like what you said. Oh, I really want to enjoy something else, which is more interesting. Is it as part of your youth growing up, but you have certain things that you enjoyed more when you grow up that you think resonates well with real estate searching and operating real estates? Ellie: Growing up. No, not really. I grew up pretty poor actually and so, I didn't see a lot of investors around me in buying a house. You know, your main residence was the biggest thing that I could think of at that point. It only came through education after I went to law school and through kind of learning about real estate during my career from observing what's happening around me. But as a kid, there was nothing that could really tie me to real estate at that point. It was way too early. James: Got it, got it, got it. So that's very interesting. And what about these deals that you bought? Can you talk about the first deal that you bought and what are the challenges that you had on that first deal and how many units was it? Ellie: Yeah. Yeah. So I think for every first deal, there's always kind of chicken and the egg. You don't have experience as a multifamily operator so you need to kind of convince the broker to give you a deal, even without experience and how do you speak with investors and bring capital if you don't have that experience? But if you can't convince them to work with you and how are you going to get your first deal? So for me, the way to kind of bypass this hurdle was to partner with someone that had more experience than me. And through that, basically, my lack of experience specifically in operating properties was not the main focus because then I was working with someone who was more experienced so that was one way. And then a lot of new young syndicators and aspiring syndicators and that's the path that they're taking. I also see syndicators are just, you know, they just find a deal and they manage to basically work with a small group of investors that, you know, usually, it's not a huge deal, it's not a large deal, but they're able to do it. I have a mentoring program today. I teach people how to do what I do and it works. And I believe in that method because I also had a mentor and I paid someone to teach me everything. So, basically, I'm not going to work with investors' money and learn and make mistakes throughout the way and mistakes are inevitable. I think we are all gonna make them at some point, but you can definitely reduce the magnitude of the impact of your mistakes if you're working with someone that has more experience. James: Got it. Got it. Yeah. I mean, sometimes, people don't see how much money we spend or how much time we spend to learn from others to shortcut your growth. There's no such thing as we came up on our own. I mean, there's always a mentor or something that has driven us to get somewhere faster, especially in multifamily investment, which is a multi-multimillion dollar investment. And it's not easy for anybody out there to just go and do multifamily. So, let's talk about some of your properties right now during COVID-19. So how's the property performing? Can you give us some numbers and performance and how did you guys do it etc.? Ellie: Yeah. So, you know, back in March, there was a lot of uncertainty and we didn't know what to expect. Part of it was kind of the media frenzy that was basically shouting 'tenants are not going to pay. There's going to be a huge default' and we weren't scared, but we're definitely concerned because we just didn't know how hard our properties are going to get hit. And we decided to be proactive pretty early on. So during mid-March, we came up with a plan that basically created a kind of a payment plan and with tenants that lost their jobs and so basically allowing them to pay in installments throughout the month and we created an early bird discount. So basically during March, if you're going to pay for April,  before April 1st, then you get $50 off of your rent for instance. And we had basically a lot of tenants that took advantage of it. And what happened is that some of them actually lost their jobs by April 1st, but they already paid us in advance. So that was a way to secure at least some of the collections. And that was part of making sure that collections are going to be solid. We were trying to think creatively, how can we increase income across the board with the properties? And I know that many sponsors right now, they stopped renovating units because usually, you renovate a unit, you invest three, five, $7,000, and then you put it back in the market, hoping you can rent it. And we didn't really stop. We basically switched to renovation on demand.  So we have the model unit that is already renovated and then we show tenants the virtual tour of the renovated units and classic unit. And we say, you have a choice; either you can go with the classic unrenovated units or for $100-200 premium, you can get the renovated unit. And just last week, we had three new leases and they all wanted renovated units. So it takes us about 10 days to renovate it. So we were still making those renovations. We're still making more money. We're just not renovating without having someone that is willing to pay for that specific unit because we still don't want the unit to sit out there and again, being rented and just be vacant. So that was another aspect of trying to boost income as much as possible and really aggressively cut costs. So only required maintenance work carried. We kind of negotiated open all the contracts with all the vendors, landscaping, even insurance, and started renegotiating. And we were looking for ways to save every dollar we can save was good for us. And we were looking at the numbers by the end of April, April was the first month of COVID when it comes to multifamily because March everyone already paid before we knew that COVID kind of is an issue. And surprisingly, we actually made more money during April, compared to March. Our collections were around 99.5% and our cashflow actually increased compared to March because we saved on costs so much and we actually collect, we were fine. And then May came and I think the trend is pretty much the same or tracking right now. We're speaking, it's May 27th and we're at around 94, 95% collections. So it's a little bit lower than the month of April, but we still have three or four more days until the end of the month. So every day we're collecting more and more money from tenants and our property managers are knocking on doors, sending text messages, and calling tenants. And really, we're very, very proactive in order to make sure that we collect everything. And in addition to all of that, there's always going to be those who cannot pay. And of course, on each property, we have those who've lost their jobs. And we basically decided that those are struggling and were good tenants before COVID, we're actually going to try and help them out. So we gave away basically gift cards to help them pay for their groceries, Walmart gift cards, to those who were good tenants before COVID, and now they're just struggling. They can't pay, or they made us partial payments because we made good money when times were good and they were a big part of our success or our paying tenants.  And the second thing is I think there's something a bit humane about trying to help those who are struggling right now. We also hope that that would help them give a higher priority on paying their debt once they're back to work and they're making money. But definitely the stimulus checks were helpful. The moment that we knew that they got stimulus checks, we make phone calls and some of them came and paid. And if we weren't following up and just hoping that they will come and pay, some of them would probably use the money for something else. Now we have unemployment that is helpful and Texas, Florida and Georgia are all of those economies are back, they're reopening and many have rehired basically. And that also helps with collections. [17:17-17:21 inaudible] Oh, James, I can't hear you. You're muted. James: Sorry. Let me start again. So we are just checking all our residents on how many people are going back to work because that's important. So once July ends, the $600 and additional from the federal government that is sent out per week, it's going to be ending soon. So we are starting to check how many people got jobs and how many haven't so that at least we know how bad it's going to be after July. So you're absolutely right. I mean, people are paying, I mean, I'm sure your concession or your gift card that you gave has helped them to make a decision to pay the rent. I'm so surprised and delighted that people are paying the rent with all the loss that they have to follow. We don't have to threaten them with evictions. We do not tell them three-day notice and people are still paying, which is good. And this is absolutely good for us.  It just really is multifamily asset class, food shelter and safety are very important and they can go and spend anywhere else. They can go for a vacation. They can go for a movie either to pay for shelter and food. And maybe they buy a massage chair, like what one of my resident did. So a massage chair and some people bought new cars. That's why people are buying new cars because there are so many deals going on in the car, but the good thing is they're still paying the rent. So do you own your own property management company? Ellie: No. We actually hire a third party company and they're pretty big in the industry. They manage over 40,000 units and that's why, kind of, early on, we realized that we're good at finding investors, finding deals, and managing the asset. Our core focus is not property management, especially since I'm here in California. And this is the great match between a company that sits in Atlanta, for instance, they know the market inside out. They have people there that are sitting in the office and helping to collect rent, signing new leases. And almost on a daily basis, we're in touch with them since COVID started. Before that, it was probably two, maybe two and a half times a week, on average and now it's almost everyday, multiple times a day. So we're very hands-on and I couldn't be happier. They're actually doing a great job. James: That's awesome. That's awesome. Did you find any resident that ghosts to the property management company completely? Like they don't want to talk, they don't want to, have you ever seen that? Ellie: Yeah, we always have those. James: Yeah, I do have that. Ellie: Yeah. Inevitable, but thankfully it's a very marginal phenomenon, you don't have five or 10% of your tenants whose ghosting on you and disappearing, James: Correct. Yeah. There's always a small percentage of people. Does anyone want to take free money given by the cities? Like, in Texas, I mean, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin, I'm not sure about Houston, probably they have done it. They did give a lot of assistance to the residents who can't pay. I'm not sure in Florida and Georgia, did you see that? I mean, did the government or city give out any assistance? Ellie: Nothing out of the ordinary besides stimulus checks and unemployment. James: There's a lot of programs in Texas that give assistance to residents who can't pay, who lost their job and all that. So, yeah, we did take advantage of some of the programs because yeah whatever money we can get from the government to help out our residents who are struggling, I mean, the more flesh we make them right now, it's going to be better later on, for the next few months. So we are going ahead and do that. So what about the value-add strategy that you do on your deals? So what worked the most, what's the most valuable value-add that have you seen? Ellie: Usually, it's a unit interior and you don't have to go all the way and make a beautiful brand new apartment. There are few things that are an eyesore for tenants, usually. I mean, a freshly painted unit that's a must. But in many cases replacing the carpet with vinyl flooring is what we do. In the bedrooms, we keep actually the carpet because tenants don't really care about that. And it saves us, you know, cut the costs at least by half some times. You know, usually, it's just the normal things; black or stainless steel appliances, painting the cabinet doors in the kitchen, maybe backsplash, new lighting. So, and sometimes we pick and choose, we don't do all of them. So there is a really good market research that goes into it before we start doing anything. It's very tempting to say, I'm going to spend five or six or $7,000. We're going to make a beautiful apartment. But sometimes you're in an area where people cannot pay for you to have a decent ROI, or they're totally fine if the apartment looks good, but it doesn't have stainless appliances, it has black appliances. So we do market research. We actually call all the other comps and we look at the pictures of their renovated units and we understand what's the scope of the renovation around us and how much they're charging as a premium and based on that, we know what tenants like. It's also a conversation we're having with the PM, the property manager. And they tell us, yeah, in this market, they're not going to pay you $30 more if you're going to give them a unit with stainless steel finances and not black appliances, but they really care about the carpet. And so that we're kind of adapting to the market and we're adjusting the scope of the renovation based on the demand and the ability to pay for all those upgrades. James: Got it. Yeah. I mean, that's absolutely right. You want to look at what the market can support and not do random renovations. And a lot of people have failed when they move from one city to one city. I've seen people move from this city. You know, they are so used to spending 5,000 a door in one city and they go to the next city and they try to spend the same amount of 5,000 a door and it doesn't work. So it's interesting how the demographic is able to support it or not. So that's interesting. What about deals? How do you underwrite deals? What kind of sniff test do you do when a deal is given to you? Like today, let's say somebody's sending you a deal, but before I go there, are you expecting prices to go down in multifamily post-COVID? Ellie: Yes, but not in the immediate future and not as much as most people expect. I don't think there's going to be 23% discounts for several reasons. One, as you you've mentioned collections, we're doing pretty well with collections. I know some properties are collecting around 70, maybe 80%. So not everyone is doing great, but we're not talking about a 50% drop in collections that can basically justify, you know, fire sales. In addition, you have forbearance. So for 90 days, owners were in trouble now, don't have to pay the lenders. So they're not motivated to actually sell the properties at a discount. Most of the discounts that I've seen today of deals that were closed during April and May and early May were around, I would say four to 5% discount. The problem is that there's a huge gap between the seller's expectations and buyers' expectations. You know, many buyers want to buy a property at a 15, 20% decrease in price, price cut, and sellers are saying, we're doing well. Why would we sell you at a discount? Now, what they're failing to understand many times is that collection is only one part of the equation. So even if you've collected more than March, there are two other main things that have changed and this is also answering the second part of your question about how we underwrite deals. First and foremost, debts have changed significantly since March. So if in March, it was easy to get 70, 75, maybe 80% LTV. Right now, we're talking about 55 to 65, maybe 68%. So you take a property with the same income, let's say, NOI is the same pre and post COVID, but now you have a deal that you only get 55 or 60% LTV versus 75% pre-COVID, guess what? Your returns are completely different. In that one part, I think was part sellers don't fully understand. And then in addition, when it comes to our projections, pre-COVID, you know, we were using software that had predictive models about vacancies, concessions, rent increases. And we use those numbers along with, you know, it's a combination of those projections, conversation with our property management company and how the property was basically performing up to that point and came out with a number that makes sense. Now, regardless of what those models are showing us, I'm comfortable buying if the deal makes sense with very little 0% rent increases in the first 12 months. And that also affects the price that we can pay, because obviously you have, you know, the first 12 months you can't really raise rents. Even though I have to say that in some of our properties, we are able to lease only with zero rent increases, but on other properties, we just raised rents about 18% higher during April because we were offering renovated units. I've talked about before renovation on demand and people are willing to pay a little bit extra. So during April, we're actually increasing the rent from some of our properties by almost 20%. So even though that is happening, I think we trust that that would happen with the next property. And so in order to be conservative, this is what we do. We increase also the bad debt or delinquencies and increased concessions more than what we usually do pre-COVID. So all those factors alongside the debt, basically, you know that affects the returns that we're looking at. And that's why the prices that we're willing to pay for a property, they're not the same like they were before COVID. James: Yeah. There are other factors. Like the debt and I don't know whether they talked about the reserves that the lenders are asking right now. The Fannie and Freddie, that's gonna, you know, additional [29:30unclear]  which reduces your return, even though you're supposed to get back that money in the 12 months or 18 months that, you know, after their deal has been meeting a certain threshold. So that's very interesting. So let's go to a bit more on the personal side. So, after you start doing your real estate business, is there any proud moment that you had you know, that you're really, really proud of that takes you until the end to forget it? I mean, you can't really forget about that particular moment that you're really proud of yourself. Ellie: Well, we had one property that when we got it on a contract, it was 98% occupied. And after 90 days or I think 80 days, we're close to the closing date and we were asking for the latest rent rolls and T12 because we're always, you know, looking at the new financial information. And I'm looking at the rent roll that the seller is sending me and I'm staring at the numbers and I'm not sure I'm seeing it right but apparently the property is about 80% occupied and he didn't tell us anything. He was hoping we're not going to notice. And it happened over a few weeks and we are about less than a week before closing. And we just find out that the property that was 98% occupied is 81, 82% occupied. James: So it dropped within a couple of months? Ellie: Within a couple of weeks. Yeah. So, we were starting to kind of scratch our heads and say, what happened here? And we kind of discover an interesting story where basically the seller was self-managing the property. He thought he was saving money by doing it by himself. He left a lot of money on the table because all of his rents were under-market. But when we took over, we just increased rents by $85. You know, almost 10% increase without touching the units because we had to push the occupancy back up because we knew it was under-market. But he was self-managing and he wasn't really treating his employees and his tenants the way they should have. And at some point, when they heard about the sale, the entire team just got up and left and they all just quit. And he had to bring a third party company last minute. The third party company comes in, they're looking at the property. And they say, okay, those who are a little bit late paying their rents, they just started evicting people. There was a woman, one of the stories that I've heard, a woman that came from the hospital, after she gave birth and they evicted her because she wasn't paying on time because she just got back from the hospital. So they basically said we have very strict rules and so if somebody, if we don't think they should be here, they're not going to be here. And that's how they ended up at 82% and the owner didn't, I don't know if the owner, even knew, I think he was hands-off at that point. He felt that, you know, he's almost selling the property and we didn't know if we can close because, you know, I had investors rhat knew they were buying a property at 98%, not 82. The first thing we did was obviously, you know, communicating that with everyone and saying, this is the situation. And we also have a plan of what we're going to do. And I wanted to give, you know, investors the opportunity to say, Hey, you know what, it's not the type of investment I want to be part of, but nobody did. We renegotiated with the seller and said, now the property is not worth as much as it was three months ago. And we also had to negotiate with Fannie Mae because now the property is not stabilized. So Fannie May only gives you a loan if the property is stabilized, meaning 90% occupied for 90 days, and this is not a stabilized property. And we worked with NorthMarq, they were a great team and they went to work for us and basically said, we can vouch for those sponsors are great operators and convince Fannie Mae to keep the loan even for an unstabilized property. So that was one of I think more interesting dealings that I was part of but it turned out to be fine. Our property management company were able to bring the occupancy back up to 90% within 45, 48 days. And the property is doing a lot better and the collections are good. And it's interesting when you're in that moment, you're not sure how the property is going to perform, but when you have a really strong team, it makes all the difference. And I was blessed to be working with a really, really good team. James: Got it, got it. That's very interesting because it's, yeah, Fannie and Freddie, they expect the property to be stabilized until they close. They'll keep on asking you for rent roll until you're closed so it's very important. That's a big drop to 82%. It's crazy. So, yeah. Thanks for coming for the show. Why don't you tell our audience how to get hold of you? Ellie: Absolutely. So you can find more about me if you go to elliperlman.com and I also have a free guide for you. If you want to look at a deal, there's basically a free guide. You can download on my website that will basically teach you all the things that you need to look at when you're evaluating a deal, all the crucial deal components. And that's basically how you can reach out to me. If you want to email me. My email is Ellie@ellieperlman.com. James: Awesome. Awesome. Thank you very much for coming to the show. I'm sure we had tons and tons of value from your knowledge and our discussion. Thank you. Ellie: Thank you, James. It was fun. Thank you so much for having me. James: Bye.  

Welcome! Craig’s walking you through a deep dive of the Pros and Cons of Online Collaboration Tools for Businesses and the Security implications for Businesses who have Regulatory Requirements.  For more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Read More: Twitter wants to know if you meant to share that article DHS Warns on New Exploit of Windows 10 Vulnerability FBI Says Sudden Increase in Mobile Banking Is Heightening Risks For Users What COVID-19 Teaches Us About Social Engineering UPnP flaw exposes millions of network devices to attacks over the Internet --- Automated Machine-Generated Transcript: Well, we went into our first collaboration product and now we're going to get into our next product. And this one is actually more of a team collaboration rather than just a video conferencing setup. Really, as I mentioned, GoToMeeting's been around a long time, man. They'd has its pros and its cons and its pros really have to do with frankly how long it has been around, because that makes it more stable. Right? They've been addressing every problem. They've seen every problem in the last, my gosh, how long has it been for them? [00:00:43] 16 years. So Go to my meeting, a very, very stable product, something you might want to consider. [00:00:49] I want to move into our next collaboration tool, which is Microsoft teams. Now, most businesses today are using a whole array of tools. The reason I bring up Microsoft teams is because so many of us are using what's now called Microsoft Three 65. [00:01:12] It used to be called office 365, but now it's Microsoft 365, which is a little bit misleading because office 365, depending on which level you were on, gave you access to all of Microsoft office tools and where you could get windows as well, windows licenses, they pull it all under one roof and as would be expected from Microsoft or frankly, almost any company out there. The price has risen and dramatically in some cases. [00:01:47] So Microsoft 365 has some inexpensive offerings we're talking just dollars per month, or if you're an actual business that needs to get something done. Cares about having backups, cares about having an email with the proper email filters in place, and the cares to have some of these collaboration tools. [00:02:10] While now you're in the 30, 40, 50 dollars per person per month range, which is pretty high when you get right down to it. [00:02:20] Not out of the ordinary, not just a totally out of the question, but it starts getting much more expensive there, including things like Microsoft windows licenses themselves. So you can really make sure all of your software from Microsoft is up to date and that you have the appropriate licenses for it because many of us, unfortunately, Just just don't have that. [00:02:47] Right. What's one of the reasons that we're not keeping our software up to date. Well, one of the reasons that I've seen again and again, is that Microsoft charges you in order to get an update in an upgrade. [00:02:59]The first little bit of advice here is if you are a business, even as SOHO, small office home office, make sure you get the enterprise versions of Microsoft 365. [00:03:12] And typically those start with an E and I don't recommend anything less than an E3 and it goes up from there there's three and four and five and there's one and two and stuff. they change it frequently. So who knows this week, right? It might've changed. And I didn't notice, but either three is where you want to start. [00:03:32] And that's going to give you access to all of the basic stuff that you need. Now. Typically we'll put a Cisco email firewall in front of Microsoft and their outlook and exchange servers. The reason for that is the Cisco email filters, just so much better than the stuff Microsoft offering. Plus you also can still use, and you still do use the Microsoft filters, but once they've gone through those incredible Cisco filters, those Microsoft filters, just frankly, don't add up to much, not much at all. [00:04:10] That's what we normally do. But a lot of companies, they just stick with the regular Microsoft stuff. Now I get questions a lot of the time about Google and whether or not they should get to Google because Google has their Gmail, but they also have offerings for businesses. I have mixed feelings on that, but basically I say, No! [00:04:34] Don't use the Google tools. Google has been decent at security. No question about it better than Microsoft that's for sure. Microsoft security is not their product. Let me tell you, but remember the Google's product is you, even if you're paying them. They are watching your emails. They are selling that information and who knows whose hands it ends up in, even if it's supposedly anonymized. [00:05:02] That doesn't mean it's truly anonymous data. That data can be de anonymized. We talked about that on the show before. So we're talking about Microsoft and if you already have a Microsoft license, like the older office, 365, or the newer licenses that are known as Microsoft 365. You have the option of getting Microsoft teams. [00:05:28] And that's what a lot of people have done. They saying, Hey, listen, we're already using all this Microsoft stuff. We're just going to start using teams. Now I have to give a kudos to Microsoft because they have come a long way. Their software was terrible for years for a decade or more, just terrible. They would put every feature under the sun, into their software. [00:05:51] Not that it worked, but people, when they're doing a selection, they're not looking for what they want. They're trying to eliminate the things they don't want. So if you're a vendor and you have some things missing in the mind of your prospect, You're not going to get that sale. It's just not going to happen. [00:06:12] So Microsoft would throw everything, including the kitchen sink into their software. And most of them had a lot of bugs. Now Microsoft still has tons of bugs, still tons. It's crazy. And those bugs drive me nuts. Sometimes it's like the moment we talked about at the top of the show, major, major bug in some of their software, that's supposed to keep your data secure, basically from hard disk crashes and from data loss. [00:06:41] And in fact is barely done the exact opposite. So I'm not a big Microsoft fan, but they're tools that they've been developing more recently for online have been a lot better than anything they've had before. I guess that's faint praise, right? Because what they had before was just so terrible, but anyhow, Microsoft has their teams app. [00:07:06]A lot of businesses that are already using Microsoft have said, well, we'll just use their teams because you know, it's Microsoft and that's the employee they have used since day one, they tried to build up a name for themselves. They destroyed competitors by having people just waiting because they knew Microsoft is going to come up with something. [00:07:27] So we'll just wait and see, because Microsoft announced something that not only did they not have in development, but apparently. We're barely even thinking about and just trying to put the competitors out of business and test the marketplace. Right? That's that's what it is. So where are you using this businesses today? [00:07:45] A whole bunch of different tools for communication and collaboration and Microsoft teams. It might be something not just for your business, but if you have a nonprofit or a small family businesses, something you might want to look at. Because teams is designed to be collaborative and it does tie in a lot of Microsoft's other tools. [00:08:07] It allows you to deploy it company wide and that can help to bring together employees. Now it can also make it so that your employees can't get anything done because they're constantly getting notes and messages from other employees, but. If your employees get some decent training and you kind of help them out that overload that can come with some of these teams tools can basically go away. [00:08:34] So here's a few different ways that using a team tool could help you out your business. One company-wide chat, which is kind of handy. It helps you to get your overall company message into the hands of all your employees. That's a very good thing. And that chat functionality is one of the main value adds of a team's application over something like Slack, that designed more for some typing back and forth, or some of these other things like go to meeting or zoom that are designed primarily for you to hold a meeting. [00:09:13] All of the teams, apps, Microsoft, and WebEx, both have what's called threaded conversations. Now you'll see that in Slack where someone will make a comment in a channel, and then you can have a thread off of that comment. So that people that are looking through the channel or the space or whatever it's called and the software you're using, don't have to see all of the comments about some. [00:09:39] Main item that's in there. So threads that's important to have and Microsoft and WebEx teams both have that everything's recorded in one easy to find place so that all of your conversations are right there in the channel. You know what they are, and you can find them. A WebEx teams recently has set it up so that, yeah, everything is right there in that space, but it also has a separate set of tabs that let you look at just the files that were uploaded or just the meetings that took place in that space. [00:10:15] I love that about WebEx. There's no more digging through your inbox, looking for emails or just all of a sudden there's 50 emails that come in because. Everybody had a comment on an email that somebody else sent. So you don't get that mail bomb when you're using these teams apps. And that helps a lot making a, you know, a filter because we're so overloaded in all of our lives. [00:10:42] Now, your conversations in these team maps can take place as a team discussion, or you could have private chats or private meetings. It really, this changes everything. If you haven't used either Microsoft teams or WebEx teams, and there's the ability to integrate Skype, to have audio and video conversations. [00:11:02] That's true in Microsoft teams. If you're using WebEx teams, you have much better options. And we'll talk about those in a, an upcoming segment here. let's see, I think next segment. Yeah. Next segment. We're going to finish up a discussion about Microsoft teams. There are still a few more things we need to talk about. [00:11:21] We're going to also get into Zoom's pros and cons. What can you use zoom for? Why did I use Zoom? I still use it. And why? Both for marketing and for business and for family. So we'll talk about all of that and some other options that are out there that Google has. And also Apple has some just amazing things. [00:11:44] What you can use to communicate securely and privately all of that right here and online@craigpeterson.com. Stick around. --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. 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Welcome! Craig’s walking you through a deep dive of the Pros and Cons of Online Collaboration Tools for Businesses and the Security implications for Businesses who have Regulatory Requirements.  For more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Read More: Twitter wants to know if you meant to share that article DHS Warns on New Exploit of Windows 10 Vulnerability FBI Says Sudden Increase in Mobile Banking Is Heightening Risks For Users What COVID-19 Teaches Us About Social Engineering UPnP flaw exposes millions of network devices to attacks over the Internet --- Automated Machine-Generated Transcript: We're going to finish up our discussion about Microsoft teams. What are some of the things you might want to use it for? What is this? How was it different from Zoom and everything else on the market? So let's get going. [00:00:21] Hi everybody. Craig Peterson here. Thanks for being with us today. I really appreciate all your comments to me M E at Craig Peterson dot com. A lot of people just respond to my weekly show notes. You get those by signing up for my email list to find out what's going on, what you should be doing, what free trainings we have, what paid courses there are. [00:00:46]We are coming out with a free again, free, free, free. I'm trying to help out here. It really is for you. Okay. A free, special report about all of these apps we're talking about today. So Karen's been working really hard on that with me, and we hope to have it out either this week or maybe the week after. [00:01:09] And it's going to be. Pretty detailed about some of the pros and cons when you should be using it, what policies should you have in place for your employees when it comes to these collaboration apps? So I think it's very important topic, you know, so many of us just knee jerk our way into this with the COVID-19 thing, and we needed something now, please, anything. [00:01:36] And we jerked into Zoom. Most of us, some of us started using Slack. All of these things are, are up in usage. In fact, WebEx had so many people applying for it because it's really the only one. If you're a business that you should be using. That they had to cut back. They were giving it away for free for like two or three months. [00:01:58]Even though they have a huge worldwide infrastructure, they still had some problems with the onboarding, getting everybody set up and ready. So there may or may not be free WebEx stuff going on right now. They're supposed to go. Maybe it was through the end of June until the end of July. I'm not sure what it is right now, but anyway, We're talking about Microsoft teams right now. [00:02:21] Okay. so as I mentioned at the very end with Microsoft teams, you need to integrate your Skype went and we already know Skype is not. Considered to be overly secure. It was actually a little more security before Microsoft bought it. And then Microsoft changed its entire architecture to one where it goes through Microsoft servers. [00:02:45] And that way, if you're in China, Microsoft can sensor you. Or if the law enforcement agencies in the US want to hear what you're saying, Microsoft can provide it to them and they couldn't do it before. So yeah. A little bit of resentment there. You probably noticed in my voice, right, Danielle, back to Microsoft here. [00:03:07] The second big thing is it has this integration that a lot of people are looking for with your business apps. So you can use word Excel, PowerPoint, one-note planners, share 0.1 drive. All integrated with Microsoft teams. And that is a huge win because all of that stuff is right there. Now the integration isn't as clean or as neat or as easy as maybe it should be. [00:03:36] But it is there and it will get better over time. You can still use all of those tools, word, Excel, PowerPoint, et cetera, et cetera, with pretty much any of these apps. They're all designed to be integrated to varying degrees, but Microsoft ultimately will win this battle. Because they own the source code, right. [00:03:58] They own the programs. They're going to take care of themselves first. And they've been sued about that before. So no, no news there. Next point, customized workspace, and every team is different. So Microsoft teams is customizable so that you can integrate it with third-party apps, as well as Microsoft apps. [00:04:21] You know, that's really the trend right now. I see that across all of the industries, Cisco has done an interesting thing, and that is a couple of years ago. They decided to do a policy called API first. Now Microsoft is not doing this, but the whole idea behind API first is. That I'm like Microsoft that tries to play everything close to the chest and give itself advantages over all of its competitors. [00:04:49] Right. And we've seen suits on that forever, like integrating internet Explorer, right into the kernels, supposedly. And so that you could not use other browsers. You always had to have a ye initially, and then they allowed other browsers, but you still had to have I E, and then the courts ruled against them yet again. [00:05:09] And so unlike Microsoft's approach to try and lock you in, Cisco has decided that they want to make. All of the Cisco software uses the same interfaces that third-party vendors have to use. And that is phenomenal when it comes to integration. So if you want to use WebEx or WebEx teams or any component of any of the Cisco stuff, including their firewalls and the routers, et cetera, et cetera, you can. [00:05:41] They've got API APIs for everything. Cause that's the only way they can access their own software. It says absolutely phenomenal. So Microsoft teams do have some third party integration available on it, which can be handy. You also get real-time communications, which as I mentioned can be a problem. [00:06:02] This isn't just true with Microsoft. This is true for WebEx teams and Slack and everything else out there. But it's real-time. So a smart person's going to do something different with email excuse me. something caught in my throat, but, email, you typically try and delay, right? I try and read my email once a day and that's it. [00:06:29] And if someone really needs to get ahold of me, but they probably know how to really get ahold of me. Right. So I'm not getting interrupted. I can work on the stuff I need to get to work on. No, I'm putting his stuff. Together for my lives for my webinars, for my radio show for everything else. And if I get interrupted, particularly if I'm doing some programming work, it can cost me hours of time. [00:06:56] So I put off email and only go through it maybe once a day. Sometimes I'll go two or three days without really paying attention to my email. So I apologize to you. If you send me an email and you're hoping for a quick answer, I don't always get back to you very quickly. Right. I have other people in my team that that's what it's for. [00:07:15] So when we're talking about communicating in real-time with some of these collaboration apps, It's a double edge sword. So instead of having emails, bouncing back and forth, which might take hours and hours, right? Because someone says something and half an hour later, another person reads it and responds. [00:07:36] Now, then that first person an hour later read to them a response, you can just have it go over very quickly. It's phenomenal for productivity. When you need quick productivity, the high priority initiatives that you have can really move a lot faster because it's not an email. It's not getting a push back while you were waiting. [00:07:57] This is really instant messaging. Think of it like texting, right? So everybody can be on the same page with these team's apps you can see who has seen your messages and people can respond to them. They can start a thread. normally how does it work? You're well, you might send an email to everybody. Giving them an update, right? [00:08:18]they reply to you, but maybe not to everybody that happens all of the time. I know people that I, you know, I expect them to copy all because I, you know, I've got two or three people on it that are need to know, and they don't, they just reply directly to me. with these types of teams, apps, everybody's on the same page. [00:08:39] Everybody can see everything. This conversation with email can split into a bunch of different conversations with ideas, being directed at one person when it really should be a group discussion. So keep that in mind as well. When you're considering some of these team's applications, everybody knows what's going on, what the status is, and productivity. [00:09:04] Just keeps flowing. You're listening to Craig Peter's son. I appreciate your being with me today. And of course, you can get me online as well. Craig peterson.com. Make sure you sign up to my email list. Kirk peterson.com/subscribe. And that gets you an email every week. Oftentimes it's Saturday mornings lately. [00:09:27] It's been more like Mondays, you know, summertime COVID-19 every excuse in the book, right. As to why it's been a little bit more delayed, but you know, expected by Monday. And it's got my summary for the week. It's got links to my podcast and also info about classes and courses and lives when they happen. [00:09:46] And then of course, here on the air, take care of everybody. We'll be right back, stick around. --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

Today we are joined by guest host, Dr. Mike DiTolla! We last spoke to Mike the week before most dental offices in the U.S. switched to emergency only for several months. Since Mike is a dentist and speaker, as well as being VERY knowledgeable about the dental industry we thought he was the perfect guy to help us understand what the dental industry was going to look like in the coming months and years! Some of the things we talked about are: Glidewell does most of it's crowns with 3 DAY TURNAROUND! What has Mike's life looked like since we started closing offices for the coronavirus? Webinar wars What does CE look like moving forward? Jason drinks Truly How is the "dental industry" feeling about the post-shutdown era? Are patients coming back? How has organized dentistry handled Coronavirus? Charging for PPE? Rella and Everclear Hypochlorous acid fogger Security theater? How do n95 masks work? What about Brownian movement? What's the future of dental meetings? (Mike DiTolla's hot take on the ADA meeting) Mike DiTolla starting a podcast with Dr. Steve Buchanan? The Voices of Dentistry is happening on January 22-23, 2021! What about on site CE (Spear, Kois, Pankey, Cerecdocs, etc) What will the "new normal" look like? Links from the show: CBS This Morning Story (dentists vs. hygienists) Ecolux Hypochlorous system The Dental Hacks Nation closed Facebook group has over 29,000 members! Head over there to interact with other Dental Hacks listeners, guests and Brain Trust members every day, all day! Remember…if you don’t have anything “dental” on your FB page, we might decline your membership request. So IM the group or email us at info@dentalhacks.com!  Just taking the leap to the world of digital forms? YAPI has been helping dental offices ditch the charts for nearly a decade. You can conveniently screen patients for COVID-19 in advance on their own devices, and all forms are integrated with your PMS. Updating health histories and signing consent forms & treatment plans are easily done with a sanitized iPad. No paper, no scanning, no retyping. Our friends at Dental Hacks save $200 when you get started with code HACKS200! Join a webinar demo today to learn more at dentalhacks.com/YAPI. Organization. Your office needs it. And you’re in luck! Because it is literally the reason Zirc exists.  Imagine no more obnoxious sterilization bags? No more assistants running out of the op to grab the ONE INSTRUMENT YOU NEED! Zirc has perfected organization using the COLOR METHOD. They have all kinds of Color coded storage, cassettes and instruments that will make you faster, more efficient and just plain better. Plus, they have a bunch of efficiency specialists that can help you figure out what works best in your office so you get everything that you need and nothing that you don’t! Check out all of the colorful options at dentalhacks.com/colormethod and use code HACKSNATION for a 5+1 promo on their E-Z-Jett Cassettes, Trays, Procedure Tubs, & Safe-Lok Covers! Go Hack Yourself: Mike: Starbucks Nitro Cold Brew Sweet Cream, Lasko 3 speed fan (that's a damn serious fan, son), Peaky Blinders Jason: Osteogen Plug Alan: Halo Headband skull cap If you have any questions or comments for us please drop us an email at info@dentalhacks.com or find us (and like us!) at www.facebook.com/dentalhacks. Or, if you prefer…give us a call at (866) 223-5257 and leave us a message. You might be played in the show! If you like us, why not leave us a review on iTunes? It helps us get found by like minded people and might even help us get into “What’s Hot” in the iTunes store! Go to this link and let the world know about the DentalHacks! Finally, if you aren’t an Apple person, consider reviewing us on Stitcher at: stitcher.com/podcast/the-dentalhacks-podcast! If you would like to support the podcast you can check out our Patreon page! Although the show will always remain free to download, our Patreon supporters get access to special bonus content including (at least) one extra podcast episode every months! Also be sure to check out the Dental Hacks swag store where you can find t-shirts, stickers coffee mugs and all sorts of other things that let the world know you’re a part of the Hacks Nation.

In this interview Lisa and Dr Wayne delve deep into  what Prolotherapy is and how it can be used with joint, tendon and ligament problems, what Prolozone is, what Ozone therapy is,  it's mechanisms of actions and much more.   With nearly 30 years experience Dr McCarthy has used these therapies on thousands of patients and teachers other doctors and medical specialists in these therapies.  You can find out more at https://waipunaturalhealth.co.nz/   Prolotherapy & Prolozone therapy Prolotherapy is a non-invasive, cost-effective solution to many problems associated with the wear and tear of joints and back problems.    Especially effective with knee and shoulder damage and lower back issues. An injection of dextrose and lidocaine are used to perform prolotherapy.  The injection is given into damaged tissue (ligaments and tendons) which causes it to inflame and then heal.  In the healing process more strength is added to bony connections.   Ligaments hold joints firmly so they move in correct alignment.  Tendons attach muscles to bones. Tearing of ligaments and tendons off bones causes sloppy joint movement and pain. Prolozone involves injecting ozone into the painful or inflamed areas, similar to prolotherapy. Once repaired non-surgically with prolotherapy, muscles can then strengthen around the joint.  Once the joint is strong, it remains so unless another accidental injury occurs. Prolotherapy increases circulation and nutrients that help tissue repair itself.  This collagen strengthening technique can be used for all joint injuries, old or new.   Ozone Therapy  What might it do for you? Essentially ozone restores oxygen saturation to the body's tissues. With any form of illness the oxygen levels drop and if they get depressed 40% below normal cancer is encouraged to grow. Low oxygen signals fatigue, usually becoming chronic. The oxidative (Life Force) power of the body is reduced and metabolism goes down to a less efficient level. Conversely, when the oxygen saturation is returned to normal there is a strong chance of recovery of normal physiological function i.e.: A return to better health. Ozone therapy is unsurpassed as a method of oxygenation and is a cousin of hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Six treatments are required to receive the ozone effect and as metabolism improves vastly resulting benefits are very long lasting.   Using the body's own inherent self-healing properties to regenerate tissue in the body. Ancient systems of medicine such as acupuncture and manipulative medicine have tapped into this capability to varying degrees by enhancing blood flow, nerve conduction and oxygenation to areas that need to be healed. As our understanding of the body's own mechanisms for healing has matured, we have developed new techniques with a more robust healing potential. In the field of Musculoskeletal Medicine, Prolotherapy, using a concentrated Dextrose (corn sugar) solution injected at the area requiring regeneration, can initiate the healing response. The first phase of healing is inflammation, where the blood flow to the area is increased bringing white blood cells to clean up the area and platelets with growth factors to stimulate stem cells to regenerate tissue. The next evolution of Prolotherapy involves isolating the growth factors found in platelets and white blood cells in the blood and injecting them directly into the area to be healed. This is called Platelet Rich Plasma. Platelet Rich Plasma can be used to stimulate regeneration of muscles, tendons, ligaments, and cartilage, and it can also be used for a variety of aesthetic conditions like hair regrowth, facial regeneration and scars. Dr.Wayne McCarthy N.D. is a Naturopathic Physician. Wayne's background is as a practicing Naturopath in New Zealand until moving to the U.S.A in 1989, where he furthered his education and training by going to a private medical school in Oregon called National College of Naturopathic Medicine. After graduation Wayne was licensed as a primary care physician in Hawaii where he practiced for 15 years. Wayne is registered with NZNMA, and certified by Natural Health Practitioners of New Zealand in Naturopathy, Nutrition and Herbal Medicine. Email Wayne, Waipu Clinic: 09 432 1325 Websites https://waipunaturalhealth.co.nz/ and https://nehc.co.nz/   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/running/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetu-mindset-university/   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.  **If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**   Transcript of the Podcast:   Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) Today, I have the wonderful Dr Wayne McCarthy, who is a Naturopathic physician primary care physician up in Whangarei in New Zealand and works at the Waipu health center. He is a specialist once again, in ozone therapy. We've done a couple of episodes on ozone, but Dr. Mccarthy uses ozone in a couple of different ways, as well as the standard practices. And he shares today a little bit about Prolozone. He also talks about prolotherapy, which is all about fixing a joint and ligament and tendon damage. So if you're struggling with an injury that you can't fix, you want to tune into this episode. We also talk about his approach to natural health and how long he's been doing ozone therapy, all the things that he's studied around the world. So a really great episode, especially off the back of last week with dr. Speaker 2: (01:10) Tim Ewer, who I head on another integrative medical specialists. And you know, I think between the two of them, these two doctors both in New Zealand are absolutely fantastic people to be listening to and finding out about more. So I hope you enjoy this interview with dr. Wayne McCarthy. Who's given up a Sunday morning to do this with us. So I was very, very lucky. Before we hit over to dr. Wayne just want to remind you, my book relentless is now out and available. It's available in bookstores throughout New Zealand. It's also available internationally on Amazon, on audio books or the audio book platforms as a Kindle, as an ebook, pretty much you name it, it's out there. You can find it on my website at lisatamati.com. Also. It's yeah, it's been out there for a few weeks and now that we were at a COVID, if you want to just pop into your local bookstore or store, if you're in New Zealand, you can do that. Speaker 2: (02:04) And just a reminder, too, that every couple of weeks we're holding a live webinar about epigenetics health program. This is all about utilizing your genes and understanding your genes and how to optimize your genes for your, for your optimum health, from nutrition, right through to your social environment, your work environment. This is absolutely powerful wellness program that we're using in the corporate setting. It's also very good for individuals, for athletes wanting optimum performance, as it covers off every area from your nutrition, your exercise, right through to your how your brain works, your dominant hormones and neurotransmitters, your it's, everything, everything is covered covered on this. It's a really a amazing program that we're delighted to be able to deliver your, you you can join us for that live webinar, which we're holding pretty much every second week the moment you can find out when the next one is at epigenetics.lisatamati.com. Okay. EPIGENETICS.Lisatamati.com if you want to find out anymore. Speaker 2: (03:12) Let me know. And as always, if you enjoy the show, please give us a rating and review because that really helps the show get exposure. And on that point, I just want to thank you all for those who have listened to have done ratings or have done reviews, because we're now ranked as one of the top 200 podcasts globally for in the health and fitness genre. So I'm really, really appreciative. It's a combination of five years of hard work, and we're really, really stoked to be in that top 200. So thank you to everyone who has done a rating and review or share this with your friends and made that happen. Now over to the show with Dr. Wayne McCarthy. Speaker 3: (03:54) Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. Fantastic to have you back again. I am sitting with a lovely day, Dr. Wayne McCarthy, who is sitting up near Whangarei who is the a founder of the Waipu natural health, and also is a doctorate, the natural environmental health clinic. Welcome to the show dr. Wayne. Speaker 4: (04:19) Good morning, Lisa. Nice to be here with you. Speaker 3: (04:22) It's fantastic. I've Sunday morning, no less cutting into your family time. So I really, really appreciate you coming on the show today, but we had a fantastic discussion yesterday. So I've been really, really excited to talk to dr. Wayne today and to share some of his insights and some of the work that he's doing in his clinics. Dr. Wayne, Can you give us a little bit of a background on, on who you are and what you do? Speaker 4: (04:49) I'm in New Zealand, I started life as a natural path osteopath. I went to Speaker 3: (04:58) The Speaker 4: (04:59) Natural therapies college in Ellis Lee, and then after five years in practice, I went to America and got an opportunity to go to national college of naturopathic medicine in Portland, Oregon, where I trained and studied and also taught. And then I got licensed as a naturopathic doctor in state of Hawaii where I practiced for 15 years. Wow. so in America we call primary care doctors, but we're working as a GP would work here in New Zealand. Speaker 3: (05:35) hmm. Speaker 4: (05:36) During that study at a national college of naturopathic medicine. I met James Hutton who was a year ahead of me as a student, but he was the understudy of dr. William Tesco. Now William Tesco was a naturopathic medical doctor. One of the first doctors to come to America from Germany. He was an ozone doctor. He wrote the first papers on bio oxidation. And I think of bio oxidation as the life force, if you want to sort of give it a lay term. And he was the understudy of Dr. Tesco. So he was telling me about ozone while I was at medical school. And then when I graduated, he taught me how to do ozone therapy. From that time forward, ozone therapy became my main therapy and I just, it's what I do with every person I treat. And that's how I got the name, dr. Ozone back then, 25 years later, I got an opportunity to go and train with in Russia. Speaker 4: (06:39) Initially Novgorod 500 K's East of Moscow with professor oly and professor Claudia of consortia Kovar, the mother and father of those own therapy and Russia. Now, the important thing about Russia is that they've been using ozone for decades in their hospital system, across all their medical specialties, oncology, gynecology, obstetrics, neurology, dermatology, pain, medicine, burns, and many other areas, neurology. So they've had the, they've done the most research of any country in the, in the world. And I trained with them for two weeks. It was one on one and I had a, a Russian lady Eugenia, Shasta Kober. Who's my interpreter. And I'm still in touch with her. We communicate regularly. She sends me information on Russian research. I collaborate with then two years ago, I went and trained with dr. Adriana Schwarz in Honduras, but she also works out in Madrid. She's the president of the international medical ozone Federation and the secretary for the international scientific committee on ozone therapy of which I'm a member. And our mandate is to improve and update the Madrid declaration, which is the world standard on how to use ozone medically. Speaker 3: (08:12) Fantastic. Okay. So ozone therapy my listeners have heard a little bit about ozone therapy at all, but you are, you know, dr. Ozone, as you say, in New Zealand, you've been practicing this for over 30 years. Speaker 4: (08:27) I've been practicing for 27 years since 1993 Speaker 3: (08:33) In the law. I want to go into some of the therapies that you use and what's actually happening with the ozone. Like I know that you said to me yesterday, you're trying to get it into the mainstream and New Zealand. How, how has that looking Speaker 4: (08:48) It's already starting to happen because we have GPS around the country starting to pick up train with us and use ozone therapy because I'm, I'm in Amer the Australasian integrated medicines association. And basically these are like-minded doctors, GPS mostly, but there are natural paths in there as well. So we're really having to greater the medical and the naturopathic through this association. And there's a lot of holistic medical doctors. And so this is sort of my clan. And if you will pick up my only naturopathic doctor in New Zealand, there might be some others, but really, I think I'm the only one just by the mere fact that nobody else has gone and trained in America where I did. Yep, exactly. Okay. So this is great because it means ozone. It is it's hopefully going to be accepted into the mainstream soon because in 12 countries where ozone has been regularized, and we believe we have all the documentation to go to our ministry of health and say, here's a new therapy. Speaker 4: (10:00) We want you to regulate it. They would look at all the work we've done and they'd go, well, you haven't left much for us to do this already. Self-Regulated, you've done a really good job. We know, yeah, you've really done the race. Now we can start to train other people. So I've trained two natural cats that now work with me. But they've upgraded to be ozone experts. All the ozone therapies are done intravenously or by injection. So it's always needles, but it's a feel good therapy. It leaves people with an overwhelming sense of wellbeing. And the primary function of it is to saturate the body with oxygen. This will do several things. It will improve athletic performance by giving the athlete the five to 8% endurance advantage, which means that it prolongs the time of maximum anaerobic output before you hit the wall and I've worked with triathletes and the iron man in Hawaii, and I've worked with many other athletes would chop those canoeists Walker, armor, paddlers people who are doing tennis, some of our out Ines players and New Zealand and swimmers. Speaker 4: (11:29) And of course you work with every form of illness that comes our way. We do see quite a few people that have various forms of cancers and the primary cause of cancer, doctor Otto Warburg won two Nobel prizes. And he proved that the primary cause of cancer is a lack of oxygen. The tissues, wow. Though, the respiratory enzymes have been toxified and therefore the body cannot process oxygen. So what we do is we saturate the body with oxygen, removing the prime cause of all cancers. So that's all I really want to say about that. That's the rationale we don't, we don't actually treat diseases. You support health. We treat people when we treat people and we're just pushing them toward greater health by restoring their bio oxidate of capacity in the body. As you know, the main cause of a lot of underlying the underlying cause of most chronic diseases is a chronic inflammation, which is free radical damage, ozone reverses, free, radical damage. Speaker 4: (12:51) Wow. So that's the key point of it. And it also, so it's oxygen is three and it's we talked briefly yesterday about it being a relation of hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which is also increasing the amount of oxygen getting to tissues. That's right. So hyperbaric oxygen, H202, which is hydrogen peroxide, vitamin C therapy, high dose intravenous and ozone therapy, intravenous they're all in a family called bio oxidate of therapies and hyperbaric oxygen. We use it it, that is better for central nervous system injuries, brain damaged spinal cord ozone is better on infection and improving circulation. So they have some overlap. I've chosen to do exclusively ozone therapy for the fact that it's cheaper to administer. It's a lot more readily available and it's a lot more versatile because I can treat the blood with it, but I can also inject it into joints or I can inject it into pain and pain is shortage of oxygen in the body. Speaker 4: (14:10) What we've learned as ozone therapists, where we inject those own pain will go really. So I can just sort of go into a little bit of that on the sports or athletics side, I feel like we'll sort of go, well, I'll start with the ozone therapy. So where does pain in the muscles? We can inject those zone and saturate those tissues with oxygen that will remove the lactic acid. And the athletes will have a faster recovery from their training and we saturate the blood and the body so that the is processing oxygen much more efficiently, which gives us a higher prolong, physical energy output during sports, the international Olympic committee. I have read their documentation on blood doping and, and how we can't cheat. You know, we're not, we're not supposed to cheat. So their ruling basically is ozone could be used for a medical purpose with an athlete during times when they're training. Speaker 4: (15:24) Yes, that's legal to treat an athlete, just cry to a competition would be considered cheating a bit. Not that you could really pick it up, cause I don't think it's terrible in the body. However, they could see that the the saturation of oxygen and their blood would be very high. It would be a bit like a altitude training. Yes. Blood doping or altitude training. It has a very similar effect, which is athletes could do ozone therapy and their training periods to recover from training. But we just wouldn't do it within sort of three or four days before an athletic event. And no one can hear enough. Okay. So how does it increase? Like what is the mechanism by which it increases the oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cells. Now I understand from the Realogy, Oh, the red blood cell increases the, what would you call it? The pivot, the flexibility of, of the red blood cell is that correct? Speaker 4: (16:33) Makes the red cells more pliable, more slippery, more flexible. So they can squeeze through the small cappelary and get to even the hardest to reach tissues. So if you've got damaged or inflamed tissues yeah, that's right. Any kind of injury where you've got inflammation, swelling, pain. Mmm. We save limbs from amputation with those own. Wow. Because we restore a good blood flow. Also the red cell, we increase a enzyme on the red cell called two, three di phospho glycerides two to three DPG. We call it what that does is it weakens the bond between hemoglobin and oxygen. What this means is blood flowing through the lungs will still pick up at school compliment of oxygen, but it will release it to the tissues a lot more easily. It's like a, it's like a wind that's blowing into the tissues rather than having to pull the oxygen off the red cell with osmosis, trying to use energy to tug it off. Speaker 4: (17:48) The blood's just good sort of way more freely. And in this way we saturate the body with oxygen. I believe it's the only way of doing it. Unless you have a hyperbaric chamber and this would be a really powerful combination I can see. So it's, it's pushing, it's basically pushing the oxygen into the tissues as opposed to it having to be pulled. Now, like as someone like that, I'm an athlete. Mmm. I've had problems constantly with anemia and not enough red blood cells. Mmm. And getting enough oxygen carrying capacity to work the muscles. Does it help with that? Or is that, it's just that that's an independent thing because number of blood cells, no, I'll speak to that issue, Lisa, because we see people that are me anemic often kicks, you know, they're wasting away. Yep. They've got bone marrow suppression, not producing enough red cells or white cells or just whatever it might be. Speaker 4: (18:46) But when we treat with the, when we treat the blood where those zone, where rejuvenating the bone marrow. Wow. And so the bone marrow starts to produce, what's called super gifted red cells. And that's actually the scientific term, super gifted. So real knife gifted, dr. Bilio Bachi Theo CCI. He wrote the book ozone, a new medical drug. And I work with dr. Adriana Schwarz, who was Dr. Bachi Sort of Lieutenant right hand person, you know, his protege really. And she's now leading the charge around the world, promoting ozone therapy, God gives excellent courses. Where was I going with this? You were talking about the Realogy and the, the, the really bad cells, the red blood cells coming out of the bone marrow are called super gifted, which means they're more resistant to oxidative stress and they're better at delivering oxygen around the body. Speaker 4: (19:53) So even when we've stopped and ozone, even though we've done a course of, let's say six to eight ozone therapies, let's say we're treating a person for a condition after six to eight ozone therapies. We've usually established a healthy bone marrow production of red cells overcome anemia. Wow. And the person is starting to feel a lot more energetic and the overnights will last for six months in the body. So they just have to realize ozone is a very reactive molecule. So when we're treating blood, the ozone has reacted with the red cell within nanoseconds, it's gone, it's undetectable and it becomes a nose annoyed. It becomes a nose denied, which is a weaker form of ozone. Or we have a it's more durable and they last six months, wow. Are there for after we finished the course of those own therapy, the patient basically to put it sort of bluntly gets their money's worth during the six to eight treatments. Cause they feel great. And their blood work's usually improving. However, over the next six months, they will be continued improvements even though we've stopped the treatment because the theology of the body has improved. We've blown all the cobwebs out of the bio oxidate of pathways or the hundreds of enzymatic pathways in the body, such that the biochemistry is now working perfectly or optimally. And remember oxygen is the primary, primary nutrients for optimum health. Absolutely. Speaker 4: (21:42) It's used at every step of every chemical reaction in the body. And we see that the underlying reason for chronic illness is the body is not processing oxygen. Speaker 3: (21:56) It's just what you see. And this isn't, Oh, well, I'll just take a big, deep breath of air. And then there I go, I've got my oxygen back. It's a little bit more complicated than that. Isn't it? Speaker 4: (22:06) No, not really. I'd say that people breathe easier. They feel normal again, and they've recovered a healthy metabolism. Speaker 3: (22:14) But when I say like we don't take my SPO two sets here at senior level, I'm at 98, 99%. So I'm like, Oh, well my oxygen's okay. I don't need extra oxygen support, but I know with like with hyperbaric, I can get a heck of a lot more like up to 12 times the amount of oxygen and the right and the right. Speaker 4: (22:37) Yeah. So what's happening there. Lisa is, you're measuring the SPO2 of the blood. You're measuring the oxygen saturation of the red cells and the blood. And they may be 98 or 99%. However, when we treat somebody we'll often see that 98 or 99% straight after the treatment has dropped down to 95 or 93%, where's all the oxygen gone. We've just poured it into the blood. Where's it gone? Speaker 4: (23:11) Well, it's absorbed into the tissues of the body that were desperate for it. And that were low in oxygen. And it's this way that we saturate then very quickly that oxygen level return back up to 99. We know the course of ozone treatment is complete. When a patient comes in they're 98 or 99%, we treat them and the blood is still 98 or 99 cent. It didn't drop. Therefore that tells us the body is saturated. Blood is saturated. They now have what we call the effect and they will stay self saturated at a very optimal level for a very long time. Speaker 3: (23:53) Wow. So if, if I want to, you know, like I'm definitely coming to see you, doc, Dwayne, I'm going to bring my mum. Then we're going to get some treatments as soon as I can get up to away. It's a long way away. But w H w over what period of time would, would, it would a person who's traveling to see you? How many, like the six to eight is required? How many do they need sort of back the team they get back to back. Speaker 4: (24:19) So over a period, what we do, people that come from South Ireland or Australia or Singapore or overseas, we get people from everywhere. We ask them to come and stay in the Waipu area, and then we'll treat them nearly every day for about a week. Wow. Okay, great. Yup. And we see a lot of chronic conditions where everything else basically is filed. And so therefore we treat people every day. We start with a very low dose of ozone because we're working in millions of a gram. We work between zero and 80 micrograms, which is zero to 80 millions of a gram of Bozon middle of, of oxygen ozone and the syringe. So we're working with micro dosages, but we've got equipment that we can dial up. Yep. 1000000Th of a gram. Speaker 3: (25:15) Yup. Speaker 4: (25:16) And so we can do one or two or three or up to 80. So we start with very low concentrations. And over the course of the treatment, we build it up to a maximum. So we might go up to maximum for us would be 80 micrograms. And then we drop it off again, the last several treatments back down to about 20 micrograms. So we vary the concentration and the dose in this way, we will, we will be constantly building up the antioxidant capacity or the antioxidant reserve capacity in the body so that that body can now tolerate a higher level of ozone. And so we can build the dose up like that. And that's how we, that's how we pull people up very quickly because we keep increasing their antioxidant capacity. As we increase the dose of those zones, then we drop down at the end, but we leave them with a seriously improved antioxidant capacity, which means we leave them with a permanent or very longterm ability to overcome chronic oxidative stress and or free radical damage. Speaker 3: (26:26) Okay. So then, then if you wanted to stick, say other oxidative therapies or vitamin C infusions or other things that would have more of an effect, or even even supplementation with antioxidants or good food would have a better effect on the body. Speaker 4: (26:40) So we do do that at Northland environmental health Center where I work with Damien Wojciech and we do high dose vitamin C therapy there, he goes up to 200 grams. Wow. And he does culation therapy and high dose vitamin C therapy as well as being a general practitioner. So collation therapy, some patients come in and they have, you know, vitamin C one day ozone the next vitamin C ozone like that. Wow. Yup. Yup. That's a very good protocol. Fantastic. And he does collation therapy, which is heavy metal detox thing. So I'm hoping I can get him on the podcast as well. That would be fabulous. He's a, that's an area that I think a lot of us need to understand as well. The heavy metal detoxing. Yeah. Dr. Wayne. I wanted to pivot a little bit and go into prolotherapy. We discussed prolotherapy and I was really excited to hear about this yesterday. Speaker 4: (27:42) There's something I haven't really being aware of. Can you explain what prolotherapy is? Okay. So we're leaving ozone therapy. Now ozone is for general health improved performance of our bodies. And just before we do leave ozone, go back to it a little bit, but we leave the topic and we're going to prolotherapy, which is proliferance therapy. This is now musculoskeletal. We look, we're talking now about injuries, physical injuries to the joints. Fabulous. What were you gonna say? I was just going to say with the ozone, cause we, we haven't touched on the, the they at home remedies, but we have talked about them in the past. I'd like to address this issue because it's an important one. Two years ago, we formed the ozone therapy association of New Zealand and we're taking applications now. And mostly for doctors we have some nurses, some natural paths. Speaker 4: (28:53) But we've also opened it up because we know that there's a lot of people in New Zealand who are practicing those own using what we call lay methods. You use that term it's respectfully used and they're doing all kinds of variations. There can be insufflation of the colon, vaginal insufflation air, insufflation cupping, limb bagging, whole body bagging. There's the hocket, which is the ozone steam sauna. Hmm. Which is actually a very good treatment. And ozone can be used in facial treatments and for beauty therapy with beauty therapists. So what we're looking to do is to regularize the practice of ozone and New Zealand so that these can all have access to a professional body, guide them on safe and effective methods to use at whatever level they're trained. We're inclusive, include everyone that's doing ozone. So that patients, athletes, the interested people who want those zone, I can get it throughout New Zealand, just depending on what their needs might be. Speaker 4: (30:09) So quite often what will happen is people will come to us. We'll do the intravenous methods. And then where do you live? Right. You're in Palmerston North. Okay. So let's see, who do we have in Palmerston North? Well, we have people using cockpit, which is the ozone steam cabinet, and we have people doing installations. And so on where the ozone gas is put either into the rectum or the colon very simple, safe, easy to use method or vaginally or other topical way, or you should make ozone oil for rubbing on the skin for dermatological conditions. You can make those, the naked water. You can breathe it. Yep. We also use ozone generators that we get from Kim sex and violence. Speaker 4: (30:57) She provides really nice equipment that we can use for ozonating the clinic meeting, any building remove smells or toxic odors and that sort of thing. And so when we were gearing up for the recent epidemic, yes, we were. Ozonating our doctors and nurses and our staff. I was receiving intravenous vitamin C. This is for our protection. And the clinics were being ozonated every morning at 3:00 AM automatically. Yep. With Kim's can Sexton's machines. Fantastic. And therefore we knew we were coming into a sanitized environment and then we treated one suspect that COVID patient. And then we saturated that room with those own immediately afterwards, it was off clinic. It was outside in the carport, the old sauna room. And so we knew that room was now sanitized. So if we had another COVID patient, we'd be able to go into that room, be sanitized. We were safe wearing our PPE, but we can deliver the treatment. Speaker 4: (32:03) Fantastic. And we will get up for that. So, and this has been like, just to briefly touch on the Corona situation. There is now proven studies coming out of Spain. The ozone is affecting the client of ours. Yes. There have been clinical trials in China and Spain and the conclusion at the moment. It hasn't all been gone into print yet. I don't think we ever, because we're working with doc date around and Schwartz, she was on the front lines and Spain treating COVID and the reports coming back, or that ozone was effective phenomenally. And what that meant was patients were recovering within 24 to 48 hours after one to two ozone treatments, they were fully recovering. And I think 98% of the patients that were in serious enough conditions that they were going to be put on ventilators. 98% of them did not need to have ventilation. Speaker 4: (33:06) Wow. Which is a good thing because nine out of 10 people who get ventilated die. Yeah. It's not really an effective therapy for COVID, but ozone proved to be very effective. We know this because we've been treating all viral conditions since since day one, really a hundred years with it's a hundred years with research and ozone. Now I have to say, it's not the only thing that will do that. High dose vitamin C will do that. I've heard an India homeopathy was very effective. And if you read the journal of the New Zealand journal of natural medicine, I don't know if you know of that, but the New Zealand journal of natural medicine, there's lots of articles in there on other useful natural therapies. And they all work pretty good. So actually there's a plethora of effective treatments that we can use against this horrible thing. That's why we weren't afraid to treat people because we knew we were safe. Speaker 3: (34:13) Yup. Yup. And I had dr. Rob dr. Rowan on last week and it's talking about Ebola and his getting shut down, unfortunately. But Speaker 4: (34:26) That's right. He went to him and Howard Robbins stopped. The Rowans went to Sierra Leoni and they were invited there by the minister of health. They treated doctors that had got Ebola. Some of them opted for the ozone, all the ones that are all the ones that said yes to ozone therapy, survive all the ones that denied it and said, no, I don't want it. They all died. Speaker 3: (34:53) And then he was shut down. Unfortunately, Speaker 4: (34:55) When he got shot down, you can't be using effective therapy. Speaker 3: (34:58) No, it might mitigate the drug sales. We can't have that comment. Right. Moving right along. Let's talk about therapies, prolotherapy. Cause this is a very, Speaker 4: (35:14) Yeah. Sorry. I don't want to confuse everyone. So everyone on the side. Yup. We're on a different topic. We're now looking at joint pain. I'm very excited about Prolotherapy because it will effectively treat all musculoskeletal injuries. It will, it is an effective treatment for all sporting injuries. And it's permanent. This is amazing when you've done product therapy, you'll no longer have knee pain, back pain. Retruding disc pain, low back pain, ankle, elbow, rotator cuff, you know, anything like that, anything where the ligaments tendons are involved in the is involved. That's right. So let's just talk about knees. Cause we see a lot of those. So what we do is somebody comes in, they've had a knee injury, the body is healed, but the injury doesn't go away. It keeps flaring up when we strain that joint. And it's because the ligaments and all the tendons or the cartilage have thinned, you know, if you could imagine stretching a thick, rubber band over a rock and then just tapping it with something sharp or happen, then that rubber will just split. Speaker 4: (36:36) It'll still be in tech, but not as strong. Think of your ligaments like that. Now you've got a little bit of a slop in the joint and that's what causes pain. And it's what grinds away the cartilage. So what we can do now is we can do prolotherapy, which is proliferant therapy. And we inject a thick solution of dextrose. So it's a sugar, but it's hypertonic, which means it's extra thick, especially compared to the body fluids. So when we inject that into a ligament, it will stimulate the fibroblasts to create more ligament. Yep. What that means is we thicken and then shorten and tighten that ligament that returns the joint back into its normal alignment. Cause that's what the ligaments do. They hold the joints in the alignment for the movement that joint has to me. Yep. And so we had this week or Lex ligaments, they've stretched, they've torn off the bone partially and it's always easy to find. Speaker 4: (37:47) You can just poke on them. They do it. And people jump you inject bet spot. And what will happen is new ligament will grow over a three week period and return 50 to 80% of the strength. Wow. Then we need to repeat it a month later. Again, you'll get 50 to 80% improvement. So after generally two or three treatments, we've got a hundred percent improvement. Wow. At that point it's permanent and you'd no longer have that injury. You no longer have a weakness there. Your mind can let go of the doubt of your ability to use that learning in a maximum athletic, competitive sort of attitude. So you get your confidence back and your athletic performance is not hindered by chronic injuries. And so we treat a lot of athletes and we keep the top people in the game and young, young athletes sometimes in their teens, cause we work with some calm, competitive swimmers and they, you know, they pushing their bodies to the max, pushing the limits. As you say, they get these tears. Now that would, that would slow the down their training. And of course, if you have a week off training, it takes three weeks to get back to where you were, where you had the injury. So you lose five or six weeks really out of your, out of your schedule with product therapy, we can keep those athletes performing without pain. And this is something so simple as, as dextrose. Speaker 3: (39:30) This is so is this like reconstructive therapy? I had a, Speaker 4: (39:34) Yeah, yeah. It's called injection reconstruction therapy. Cause I had a, Speaker 3: (39:41) A boyfriend back in my early twenties who had a very bad ankle injury and he had to go to America for, we construct a therapy. It was called Speaker 4: (39:50) Yes. Will be injection reconstruction therapy probably mean it is an American technique. Yep, yep. I did learn it there. Yup. Speaker 3: (40:00) And the body's own reaction and info. This is where information is so interesting. Isn't it? Because inflammation, when we, when we cause an injury to the site we've deliberately actually causing and introducing something that's gonna irritate and cause injury. And it sends the body's a body starts to send fiber blast to actually make it stronger. So we're using a game just like with the ozone and with hyperbaric, we're using the body's own resources at the end of this. Right. Speaker 4: (40:27) Which is where natural path. So we're, we're always working with the body's own natural healing abilities. And with those own and product therapy, we feel like we can get maximum advantage there. Yup. So we also get a lot of patients often in their forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, even eighties and nineties who have health conditions and the generative joints it's often called osteoarthritis, which I believe most people think if they're told they have osteoarthritis, they get this idea in their mind that it's something to do with their bones. Yes. Is that your take on that? Yeah. I would say it's inflammation. Speaker 4: (41:19) Yeah. Most people would say it's bones. They think it's bones and we think we're bones as well. It's my bones, they're old and they're down and so on and nothing really too much you can do for bones. Well, we, we don't take that point of view. We see osteoarthritis as joint inflammation, so it'll always be the soft tissue, the ligaments, the cartilage and the tin. And we can repair all of those now. Yeah. So by injecting product therapy into a knee joint, for example, we can reconstitute the cartilage. And so we take people with bone on bone. Wow. And we can, we can thicken that Cartlidge enough that it takes the pain away and on x-ray we'll see an increase in the lower back, you know, like a lot of us, me included, I've got like four different set of basically go on by nonbinary, very close to being bone on bone. Speaker 4: (42:17) Okay. So I'll come at this from two angles. Number one, where you've got a bulging disc, the surgeons have told us, and we've known this since the 1950s, is that the ligaments on the posterior aspect of the vertebra or the vertebrae, you mind those posterial ligaments, the inter spinus and supraspinous ligament, usually a weak and stretched. And so one of the vertebra has moved forward slightly and it's put pressure on the disc and pushed it out, all that space in between the, when a disc protrudes, the chances are that it might impinge on one of the major nerves coming out of your back and going either down your bottom or to your internal organs. So what we do there is we prolotherapy the ligaments on the backbone that we'll tighten those up and it'll pull that vertebra back into its correct alignment, thereby taking pressure off the bulging disc. Speaker 4: (43:31) Wow. Then we have two ways that we can treat that bulging disc. We can either inject those zone down the spine in the muscles, running down the spine as close to the disc, as we did go and inject ozone, it only takes a few minutes. It's 98% effective for joints for bulging disc 98% effective. That's where you expect to win with bulging discs every time it's insane. And sometimes we can go in through the quarter, which is a little opening at the base of the sacrum. And it allows us to go into the spinal cord. I know this sounds risky, but actually it's a very safe procedure and we can inject those own into the quarter Aquinas. Which thing goes, the ozone travels up the spine to about thoracic that are bred number 10. Speaker 3: (44:35) Yup. Speaker 4: (44:36) Mmm. Which means it travels all the way up the lumbar spine and into the first few discs of the thoracic spine is where the ribs start and 98% effective for reducing bulging discs. So we prevent a lot of surgeries. Speaker 3: (44:55) This is what I mean, this is what, Speaker 4: (44:58) Mmm. Speaker 3: (44:59) Surprises me that, you know, this isn't more known and it isn't out there. And I did know of this 20, like I said, 20, 30 years ago, but this was an option and I've never seen it come back or, you know, proliferate and then people know about prolotherapy and certainly not Prolozone this is good. This is definitely going to help people avoid having to have surgery. And, and, and you'd think this would be well, let's try this first. It would be a great approach. Why isn't this right throughout everywhere? Why, why isn't every doctor offering this or is it a very specialized difficult thing? Speaker 4: (45:36) You know, I can only relate to it in terms of my own personal history. You know, I went and trained in Oregon and I learned things that are not taught here in New Zealand. One of them was the other one product therapy and actually put product therapy in its basic form was actually taught to me by a osteopathic surgeon. I'm just trying to think of his name now. I'll dr. Wilson. I think it was, he was a Harley street physician. He was doing it back in the day. And so we learned some of that often in, there was a famous New Zealand doctor called dr. Only who went and did product therapy and he was doing it in Mexico. So a lot of Americans would go down to Mexico. A lot of Gridiron athletes would get prolotherapy injections. So I heard about him and it turns out he was in New Zealand. Then when I came back 14 years ago to New Zealand, I trained with dr. Ken or Speaker 4: (46:45) Which he dr. Ken or at that time was I think, 92 years old, gosh, and still practicing and Remuera. Wow. And and I still liaise with Fraser Berlin, who was his nephew and doctor, or he was sort of a phrase, a Burling was dr. All's sort of protege if you will. And so he treats a phrase that treats a lot of people that have, and I always get this name wrong, but yeah. Disease, which is a, I think I've pronounced that. Right. It's an odd one. So sometimes I mispronounce it. Anyway that's a generalized disease where ligaments just sort of dissolve. So it's a serious condition. There's about eight or 900 people in New Zealand. Well, he's treating all of them with prolotherapy and it's the best thing they've ever had. So he's another doctor, great work there with prolotherapy. He uses stronger prolotherapy agents than I do. Speaker 4: (47:55) He uses if the NOLA mean and Tetra or sulfate, I believe which is a stronger tightening agent, but you know, we're natural paths. We like to stay with the more natural methods I have used other substances like fish oils, sodium moral weights. You can use those in eyes, blood, you can use vitamin B 12, you can do strong ozone and do the prolotherapy with strong ozone. That's what they call pro Prolozone. But I use dextrose, I use dextrose and I treat the ligaments and then we inject those own around them. And we usually put ozone into the, into the joint. Wow, this is this is incredible. And I think you probably going to be inundated with people wanting to come and see you because it got to be I didn't have a life outside of, and so, you know, I had to train other people. Speaker 4: (48:57) Yeah. I could have time to smell the roses or, and buy things. Exactly. Cause yeah, I mean, you're obviously very, very passionate about helping people and getting the most out of your time. And I mean like just, just you giving up your Sunday morning and spending an hour with me yesterday too on the phone, just so's what sort of a person I had dedicated you are to, to this. And I think that that's just absolutely fantastic. And to have someone with this sort of knowledge and background, a very different approach to what we're perhaps used to seeing here is exciting for me because I can see this is great changes happening. And Amer I think is going to be the, the association for integrative medicine, I think is going to be a fantastic thing. I'm, I'm trying to I want him to become a member. Speaker 4: (49:53) I think it's a, that's the things that are coming down the line now. Pretty exciting aren't they? Oh, they are. And what's happening is doctors and therapists sort of the lines of demarcation are breaking down. Yes. Because it becomes more, not about the doctor. Well, the practitioner it's really about the patient and what are we going to do to help the patient. Yep. And that's because we're all coming from that angle. Yep. We just always looking to, with people of conscience and we're doing the best work we can to recover the health of our population. We use all methods that we think can work and ozone and prolotherapy have enough scientific research behind them. We, we, we can explain in detail exactly why they do work. Yep. And this is, this is just brilliant. And so critics of which, you know, usually I just people that don't know, they just don't know about it. Speaker 4: (50:54) We've been, we've had critics. Mmm. Yeah. We've had mid safe and ministry of health. Everyone's investigated us. And yeah, we provided them with dr. Work, you know, we've provided the scientific literature. Yup. That proves what we're doing is safe, efficient, effective. And and this isn't like, this is really become a family is critical and many of them become active supporters. So we can turn a critic into an active supporter just through education. Gosh, that would be great because I do, I do find in the, you know, the, the straight laced allopathic medicine is still so blinkered. Certainly in my experience and I can say this cause I'm a non-licensed nonmedical professional. It has been very, very frustrating in my own, you know, with my own family's health with my mom's journey, for example. And, and I, and this is one of the reasons why I do the show because I want to create change in movement. And it's not all about pharma pharmacology. It's not all about just surgery. Those are great. And let's look at those, but let's look at the other sides of the coin in trying to connect fantastic people and share this education worth the public. I mean, last week I had Dr. Tim Ewer. Speaker 4: (52:23) I know he's fantastic. And he was on the show last week. And again, he too has had, you know, I know issues okay. The, the, the approaches that he takes, I mean, there's a reason why there's such a mess of waiting lists. And so many people wanting to see people like you because it's not being offered. Unfortunately, you know, dr. Terms down, down South, you're way up North, it's hard for a lot of people. If this was this sort of thing was available. And every time we'd have a lot less people, we would, and we'd save our country, billions in healthcare costs, but really you'd have a happier population being able to work to their full potential rather than have their abilities curtailed because of pain. Really. you asked me why aren't more doctors doing it. I think what's happened is ligaments and tendons have really just basically, I'm going to use the word overlooked. Speaker 4: (53:24) I think doctors are really just overlooked. They'll treat organs and muscles and such but ligaments, well, what, what are you going to do for ligaments? Well, we don't, you can't do anything for ligaments. So we won't put too much attention there cause we can't do anything for it. Yup. Yup. Well, the gap that is the gap in the system where we've come in with product therapy, that's our specialty. We treat ligaments, but all chronic injuries are ligament based. And so our typical patient has been to acupuncturist, osteopath, chiropractor, orthopedic surgeon, GP, soft tissue therapists, CMA, if they've done everything. And when we start to hear that history, it confirms for us, this is great. It's telling us it's a ligament problem. Or yep. Then when we investigate, by the way, all those therapies are very helpful. But if they don't resolve the issue, we know it's a ligament problem. Speaker 4: (54:26) So then we do our injections and the pain goes away. People recover the function of their alum and they ask, how come I never heard about this before? How come no one's ever told me about this? And I said, but we have told you about it. And now we've treated you, what's the issue. You know, people find things when they look for them, but this is, I just wish it was, you know, and this is why the show's important. And this will have a small portion of people that were here at, and hopefully the people that go come to you will also share their experiences, but it's a very slow process to get it out to the, the 98% of other people who are unfortunately unaware of it. I mean, yeah, deep into all of this sort of stuff. Zealand, we only have what, two degrees of separation here. Speaker 4: (55:18) So the work that I'm doing, I know is sprayed right throughout New Zealand, because lots and lots and lots of people have now heard about it. So I've been doing it for 14 years here. And so within New Zealand, most people that have these types of problems, my, my past patients usually we'll tell them to come and they have at least have a look at this therapy. And so I think we have New Zealand pretty well covered. Yeah. This show maybe more people might even think about prolotherapy is that yes, it's needles. Yes. It's injections, but you know what? It only takes a minute or two. But when I start working on a joint within a minute or three, I'm usually completely finished with that area. Fantastic. And then they've got lifelong strength back and it's, you know, $300. Yeah. As opposed to a surgery or continual care that costs over years, many thousands of dollars and especially avoidance surgeries, which can be very expensive. Speaker 4: (56:31) We prevent a lot of knee replacements. We get people that have had knee replacements or joint replacements where it hasn't worked perfectly. They're still in pain. So, you know, you hear, you do hear a lot of horror stories, but I also hear a lot of people that have had joint replacement that they're very happy with. So I'm not sort of a critical of it, but if you've had a joint replacement, you're still in pain consider product therapy because he taught me. And so the doctor can, or that we can do product therapy around a joint replacement and it still works very, very well surprisingly, but it does. Speaker 3: (57:12) Yep. Fantastic. I mean, I, it makes sense to me. You know, so I think, you know, dr. Wayne we've covered quite a lot of territory today. We we've done, I was on therapy, a little bit of the background, what it's doing now, how it works, we've gone into prolotherapy and even into Prolozone therapy. Speaker 4: (57:32) Yeah. Prolozone is doing prolotherapy, but just using strong ozone irritating and you just inject the gas. Cause I was owns always a guest. We inject strong ozone into the ligament using the product therapy, needling technique. Mmm. Because just the needle itself going in and out through the ligament creates the ligament, the bikings use fish phones and they would just prolotherapy a ligament with fishbone. Oh, sounds terrific. Shot. And it would create new ligament by us doing a little injection at the end of it. We of course maximize the effect. Mmm. Speaker 3: (58:13) Well, if you think about it, anything that causes a rotation, the body seems more stuff there to fix it. Speaker 4: (58:19) Mmm. You know, Speaker 3: (58:21) So dr. Wayne, I want to say thank you very, very much for your time today. I really appreciate it on a Sunday morning. We can people find you and we're, you know, where's the best place to connect with you and come and see you. Speaker 4: (58:34) You can look up waipu natural health, waipu natural health. So we're in Northland or they can look up dr. Ozone doc, T O R O Z one, So doctorozone1@gmail.com contact the Northland environmental health center in camo. And we do all these therapies there. Speaker 3: (59:05) Fantastic. And I would love an introduction to dr. Damien Wojciech at some stage. That would be really fantastic. Speaker 4: (59:13) I'll share with them that while I did this podcast. Yeah. And I can put you in touch with them. Speaker 3: (59:18) Sounds brilliant. Dr. Wayne, thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate the work, the passion, the education that you've invested in all of this and bringing this to New Zealand that's really, really appreciate it. Thank you, Lisa. Thanks for the opportunity of sharing it with our people. Oh, it's fantastic. Speaker 1: (59:36) That's it. This week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.