Podcast appearances and mentions of dennis yes

Kole, Ben, Dennis, and David talk about Ikai, Yes, Your Grace, Into the Pit, and more. The Grind: David: Destiny 2. Kole: Ikai. Dennis: Yes, Your Grace. Into the PIt. Ben: Bit Buddy. Strange Horticulture. Multiplayer: Free Play! The End Boss: Save Room is a game made entirely of RE4 inventory puzzles. Sega is working on “super game” that is actually Crazy Taxi and Jet Set Radio reboots. Let Me Solo Her fever sweeps Elden Ring. Someone is adding Krystal, from Star Fox Adventures, to Half-Life 2. They've announced that they're adding the Dungeon Master to Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms.

TranscriptSushant: Hello, and welcome to India Speak, a podcast by the Center for Policy Research. I am Sushant Singh, senior fellow at CPR. This is the second episode of our series featuring leading experts and academics, on the many facets of Sino-India relations. Some of them will be looking at the historical side of things, while others will focus on the strategic facets. Today, we will be discussing the military aspects, looking at the China's People Liberation Army, and what it means for India and to do that our guest today is Dennis Blasko, an independent analyst, and former senior Military fellow at the National Defense University in Washington DC, a retired Lieutenant Colonel of the US Army with 23 years of service as a Military Intelligence Officer, and foreign area officer specializing in China. He has served at the Defense Intelligence Agency and office of Special Operations. From 1992 to 1996 he was an Army Attache in Beijing and Hong Kong. Dennis has written numerous articles, and book chapters on the Chinese Military, including his book “The Chinese Army Today, Tradition and Transformation for the 21st century”, which remains an essential reading even after more than 15 years. Dennis, welcome to India Speak.Dennis: Thank you very much for the invitation.Sushant: Let me begin with your book Dennis where you explained who forms the PLA, what it is, what it is not, where exactly is the People's Liberation Army, how will it fight, what its doctrine is, what equipment it uses, how it trains, and how it interacts with the larger society. Essentially your book argues that the PLA is an Army of the revolution, it owes its loyalty to the party, and political guidance plays an important part in the professional character of the Chinese Military. What is the best way to explain the uniqueness of the PLA and the differences that it has vis-a- a-vis militaries from other democratic states, like the United States, United Kingdom, France, and even India for that matter?Dennis: Well, Thank you. The PLA is definitely a political Army. However, I would say for the past 30-40 years it's been less and less of a revolutionary Army, and becoming much more professional as it has modernised since its last war, last major conflict in 1979. But the main point is that it remains an arm of the Chinese Communist Party, and they have huge infrastructure and personnel to maintain that party control over the Army. However, over the past four decades of modernisation, it has become much more professional and modernised in terms of its equipment and doctrine.Sushant: So, would it be fair to say that PLA is an untested army? Having fought the last war against Vietnam in 1979, four decades ago. I ask this because many people consider this as the weakness of the PLA, especially after the recent theaterisation under the tenure of President Xi, about 7-8 years ago, pointing out that this military has not been tested at all.Dennis:Right. It hasn't been tested in actual combat, since the 1979 war, but it is important to understand the situation in Ladakh, in Aksai Chin, that for most of the 80s, there was a low-level border conflict simmering on the Sino-Vietnamese border. During that time, they rotated its troops in and out for many years from all over the country to get some experience getting shot at. What is happening today at Aksai Chin, South China Sea, East China Sea is similar to that, but without as much gunfire and actual conflict. The whole point of these deployments and activities is to pursue national objectives, given to the PLA from the Chinese Communist Party and the government. While it hasn't been a part of a major conflict, it is trying its best to remain relevant through various deployments and training. It continues to constantly improve training over the last couple decades with the type training it undertakes. It's not tested in actual conflict, but some of the things that we often think may be a problem such as the relationship of the commander to the political commissars or instructors might have been worked out as the situation seems to be in place for decades. I think they look at the political relationship between the Army to the party and between commanders and the political system, as a strength.Sushant:With this theaterisation model and this restructuring that has taken place, can training or various exercises replicate something that you may face in real combat? Because theaterisation is a very different kind of structure of the PLA. Dennis: Yeah actually, this is what we can see today in Aksai Chin. Their actual deployments look a lot different when they are training, down on the border & near the Line of Actual Control; they are deployed much differently than what we see them doing on television and in photographs. They look like they are taking this seriously – digging in, spacing themselves out and they are deployed in much wider areas than they would be normally. I think they have learnt some lessons on what happens if someone starts shooting at you. It is quite different, even the training they do, even the force on force, the red versus blue with the laser identifiers, the pop-up smoke when people get hit, we do the same thing at our national training center. It looks very similar but a lot of what I see with respect to their training away from the border training looks quite different from what I see them deployed on the ground in the very difficult terrain in the Himalayas.Sushant: Before I get to Aksai Chin I wanted to go back to something which you said about the strength and weaknesses of the PLA, you spoke about the training, the deployment, the logistics. How would you compare the modern PLA of the 21st century or of 2022 with the US military or with the Indian armed forces? I hear a lot from my former colleagues in the Indian Military about the quality of Chinese infrastructure, the pace of structure construction, the pace at which they construct roads, tracks, bridges, habitat is something to be seen. The induction of modern equipment into the PLA, their mobilisation time, the pace of their mobilisation, their logistic support. While they are not quite sure about the quality of the PLA soldiers who are roughing it out in the winters, they are also not sure about their relationship with the political commissars or the military commanders. How will you characterise these strengths and weaknesses of the PLA as they exist today?Dennis: One of the things that I try to emphasise is not to mirror image. I know, I hope I know, I may not know the United States military as well as I did when I retired a long time ago. But, it's a mistake to look at what the PLA is doing and say “well, if we do something like that therefore it must be just as good as us” and can operate on the battlefield in the same way that we would or would even want to operate in the same way as we would. The PLA is actually constructed much differently than the United States military. Even though reforms have come up with some aspects that are sort of like the United States, the more I look at the PLA and the entire Chinese Armed Forces, the more differences I see. Perhaps one of the biggest differences obviously is the funding. The PLA budget, no matter how you calculate it, is a fraction, maybe a third of the United States defense budget now. Yet the PLA, the people's armed police and the militia are many many times larger than the United States military. One of the things that they are constantly talking about is trying to conserve money and spend their money wisely. This leads to another element that is consistent even today when its reform started years ago, in that PLA modernisation is subordinate to but coordinated with economic development. One of the things they learned from the Soviet Union during the late '80s and '90s when the Soviets spent themselves to death & they didn't have an economy that could support their population. The Chinese have learnt from that, the defense spending in China does not interfere with the civilian economy. They also look to the civilian economy to support PLA modernisation and we can see that happening everywhere. So, despite everything that is going on they are trying to do it on a shoestring budget.Sushant: Dennis, if you are comparing it with the US Military and that's why you're talking about a shoestring budget but when compared to a country like India which is economically much weaker the PLA man to man spends far greater than what India spends. So, in that sense India would be in bigger trouble.Dennis: Yes and as I said, I haven't studied Indian Military so I am not this familiar with it, but from your perspective, it is much different.Sushant: Yes, because from our perspective the Chinese economy is five times Indian economy, their defense budget is four to five times our defence budget, they are spending man to man more than we are spending, they are producing many more military platforms within that country while we are not producing that much equipment within our country, we are the biggest importer of military platforms globally. The advantage that the United States Military has over PLA, perhaps the PLA has over the Indian Military to some extent.Dennis: Yes perhaps that's a good reason why we should all be happy that the Himalayas are between the two countries. Because it is such difficult terrain. But, I am not quite sure what the Indian reserves are like. If you have got a system of the reserve units.Sushant: We do have a system for reserve Units but we don't need to use reserves, reserves are not called into service. I don't remember in the last many decades reserves being called into service at any point of time. Dennis: Right. For example, here in the United States, especially over the last two wars, in Afghanistan and Iraq, we used our reserves almost interchangeably with our active-duty forces. The PLA reserves are much less advanced and really would not contribute in the same way as the United States reserves. The PLA reserves may be a little more advanced in development than the Indian but they are quite different from the United States.Sushant: Dennis, getting back to what everybody is talking about, the Sino-India border crises in Aksai Chin or Ladakh in the high Himalayas. Based on your extensive reading of the Chinese Military media and studying publicly available satellite imagery. Do you now have some understanding of what happened on the disputed border starting in the summer of 2020 and more importantly, why did it happen? Firstly, what happened & why did it happen?Dennis: The why is much more difficult but first it's important to start with, the PLA army is broken down for this purposes into two major elements, one is the border defense forces which are deployed along China's border and Coastal Defense forces and I estimate there are at least a hundred thousand, maybe up to two hundred thousand border defense troops whose main job is to monitor the border, do some initial reporting, fighting delay any invasion that comes on, but the bulk of the PLA army is in the mobile operational forces- the divisions, and the brigades, the group armies that are stationed further back from the border. In the Aksai chin, I see two permanently deployed border defense regiments through that area. One regiment in the Hotanprefecture in the military sub-district and another regiment in the Nagari or Ali military sub-district prefecture, Tibet. And, an interesting anomaly is that the Nagari sector of Tibet is actually under the command of the Nanjiang Southern Xinjiangmilitary district, and there is a big dip into Tibet, it's a big bite chunk that's cut out that is under command of the Xinjiangmilitary district and Nanjiang military district. I believe that what initially happened is that the border defense forces, especially up in theGalwan valley, were involved in the June 15th conflict. It was specifically one regiment and I think one battalion that was patrolling in theGalwan valley. Honestly, I credit both sides for the discipline that they showed because both sides were carrying weapons. They got into a major scuffle, but no shots were fired, which I think says something about the discipline on both sides. At the time, there was talk that there was change over between the units, between the battalions with that regiment. But, for some reason, I don't believe, based on no evidence, but I don't believe that there was an order from Beijing or Xinjiang or Nanjiangto go out and kill people. I believe it was units, a lot of people in very close proximity that started pushing and shoving each other that got out of hand, but eventually both sides were disciplined enough to pull back and withdraw. At the same time or just before that happened, there had been exercises in the area but not in the Galwan valley, because that's a terrible place to do military exercises, but to the north up in the Dapsong plains and beyond and perhaps to the south east in Nagari, there were out of area units coming in and doing exercises. At the same time, there were some of these out of area units, and I believe they were the initial forces that came from Xinjian, Nanjiang, the Sixth (what is now combined armed division) started moving forces into the sector south of Galwan. Eventually, they went into Galwan, but they started going into Kongka (the hotspring region), then the north of Pangong Lake. I am not sure when they went south of Pangong lake but they eventually showed up at the south of the Pangong lake. Anyway, they started moving in these divisional elements from Xinjiang and over the next six months poured in what I would consider probably an entire division. Some 10,000 people spread through these four/ five sectors from Galwan to hot spring to Pangong Lake to Spanggur Lake & set up these encampments. The most important thing is and one of the things that is very useful for identification is that the encampments are generally far apart, the sectors often are 35 miles apart. So that you can't move troops back and forth between the sectors but they have come in with artillery, and artillery can often support each other from the sectors and it is by seeing the artillery that I can make an estimate of what size units are there. But after looking at the available Google Earth images from October to January and early February of last year, I estimated that a full division had been deployed there, but it was deployed to stay, not to go south or East or West. It was deployed to hold territory and as they say create facts on the ground. The important thing is that they were dug in by engineers and probably reinforced by engineers to do the digging. Perhaps, some civilian engineers came in to dig out these camps, that were all in defensive positions spread out for miles and miles in the Galwan valley. There is a regiment, I estimate that is 23 miles from the Line of Actual Control and in Pangong Lake, they have two regiments, combined arms regiment supported by firepower or artillery regiment. It's spread for almost 15 miles along the Pangong lake. So, those are defensive positions meant to hold territory.Sushant: You know Dennis couple of questions you said this is a defensive formation, you spoke about the border defense forces, so what is the significance of the border defense forces? Are they as well trained as the regular operational troops? Are they poorly trained, poorly equipped, less equipped, are they paramilitary, gendarmerie, what are they? And the second question is, were there any offensive formations there which could have gone and taken some territory on the Indian side, if the need arose.Dennis: The border defense forces are generally much lighter than the mobile operational units. They are mostly infantry, they may have some heavy machine guns, they might have some mortars. Few regiments have older armed personnel carriers. In some places, coastal defense will have artillery but generally, they are spread out in company-size positions miles and miles apart. Their mission is to patrol the border and man outposts and observe things. So they would be observing what the Indian side is doing and they might be reacting to that, and as you know you, have over the past decades established protocols for how to patrol, where to patrol, how to identify yourselves, how to carry your weapons and things like that. But these people, the border defense units, I would estimate probably throughout that entire region the two prefectures probably are two regiments amounting to some four thousand forty-five hundred troops. That would include the patrol bulks on thePangong lake. So you have got about forty-five hundred of those troops to spread out over the border of two hundred and fifty miles, a very long border, and then superimposed upon that are these outside units from Nanjiang (the division). So, what has happened is in many places, the out of area units came in, reinforced and built camps around existing border defense units. Now, could any of those forces cross the LAC, attempt an offensive to take land well into what is established Indian territory – yes certainly, they could have tried, but as you know, this is a terrible terrain for mechanised movements. It will be very difficult to make those kinds of movements. If there were any sort of opposition with modern artillery or anti-tank weapons or air support – any sort of thrust into the other side's territory would be very vulnerable.Sushant: Dennis, based on your study of the Chinese military media, could you ascertain the reasons for the PLA doing what it did? Have you been able to see any analysis of that, any reasoning is given out anywhere?Dennis: I have not seen exactly why they have done that, and that would be a much higher-level party decision. You are familiar with the concept of the chicken and egg, which came first. The Indian side says the Chinese have been building their infrastructure along the border. The Chinese side says the Indians have been building their infrastructure along the border. So, who did it first? Both sides are improving their infrastructure and we are seeing now with this bridge that's been built across the Pangong lake.Sushant: Based on your assessment so what are the number of PLA troops including the border guarding forces, and the combined operational division. What is the approximate number of troops you would assess based on the encampments etc that the PLA has deployed in Aksai chin?Dennis:I look back to maybe 20 miles, 25 miles from the LAC back into Chinese territory and I see five sectors that I have mentioned before. I don't see the very the northern sectors of Depsang and I don't see the very southern sector of Demchok, but the five sectors that I see which is about 200 miles and then 20 -25 miles back when you include border defense, the division which I would estimate to be about ten thousand personnel, and then there are certainly non-divisional forces, engineers coming in. I have seen further back in Rutog, what I think is a long-range multiple rocket launcher battalion. I think there is artillery and there are probably some special operation forces. There are definitely some communications forces. There are a lot of transportation and support forces both from the region and then from the army and from the joint logistic support force. So, I would say there are probably about twenty thousand in total when you include the border defense, the division combined arms division, and the supporting forces.Sushant: But, Denis based on the military formations, areas, districts which are involved in the PLA side of the crisis. Do we have any knowledge of the commanders and their personalities who are involved. And has the recent restructuring made a difference to the way these things operate now and also how these commanders now operate?Dennis: At the operational level, you know the regimental commanders, the division commanders, we may know the names but, I don't know if we may know much about them. The Major General who is in charge of the Nanjiang military districts is the one who meets with your... Sushant: Core commander...Dennis: Yes. I would imagine you know him very well and I don't follow personalities that close. But, I believe that if I remember correctly he has been there for some sometime. Therefore, he has got a lot of experience in Xinjiang. There has been a lot of talk about the western theater, change of commands, having four commanders in a couple of years, and all that kind of stuff. The first change of command, a new guy came in without much experience in the region and he replaced somebody who had been in the region for a long time, and I think medical problems led to him leaving which brought in a third person who also didn't stay but a couple of months, and now finally, a fourth commander who has come in, who also has extensive experience. One of the problems with PLA changes of commands is that you never really know if the medical reasons are the real reasons for their departure, and there could be other reasons too. Right now, I believe that they do have in the chain of command people with extensive experience operating in Xinjiang because it is an anomaly, it's much different. Xinjiang forces did not undergo some kind of reforms that the vast majority of the rest of the PLA undertook. In Xinjiang, there are no group armies. The rest of the PLA is pretty much group armies, except for the Tibet Military district. So, there has been change and modernisation in Xinjiang but they still have both the border defense chain of command and the chain of command for the divisions and other supporting units, as they did before reform. I believe they have done that because of the unique situation, the huge expanses of land, and the harsh terrain throughout that area.Sushant: Dennis, just stepping back a bit, what is the political direction to the PLA now, particularly on Taiwan and on the South China Sea. I ask this because there is definitely a connection between what the PLA does on Taiwan or what the political direction in Taiwan is to what PLA does vis-a-vis India, because you know, if nothing happens to Taiwan then doing something to India allows the communist party to showcase itself as doing something for PLA. So, do we know something about the political direction the PLA has now on Taiwan and on the South China Sea?Dennis: I would say what we have seen in Aksai Chin is the army equivalent of what we have seen in the South China Sea, and opposite Taiwan. In the South China Sea, we primarily see a naval operation, a single service naval operation with the building of structures on the reefs and all that. Then against Taiwan, we see a more joint operation, both naval and airforce, heavy air force presence with all the flights mostly south of the island. But, both of these or all three of these different sectors or fronts as you might want to call them are being undertaken at the direction of the central military commission and the Chinese communist party. The PLA, in that regard is obeying the orders of the party, in their mind with Taiwan, it is to prevent further steps towards independence by Taiwan – in other words deterrence of Taiwan's independence. In the South China Sea, in many ways, it's similar to what's going on in Aksai chin. It's establishing realities on the surface and establishing military patrols in that region to reinforce their claims to the disputed areas. I don't see any of them building up an offensive deployment that would be necessary for a real war. For example, if you were to look at what's going on opposite Ukraine, you see concentrations of forces that are much different than what you see the PLA doing.Sushant: Dennis, one final question and then let me put you on the spot. Are there any signs of China and India going to war? Based on whatever you see, whatever you hear, whatever you analyse, or are we going to see something on the India border,as you just said earlier, what we saw of China from the Vietnam border, but with lesser kinetics may be less artillery shelling and fewer casualties than what we saw in 1979 and 1987 on the Vietnam border. My final question to you is, do you see a war or not?Dennis: No, I don't see a decision to go to war. The problem is the more all sides increase the tension, hype their soldiers up, and then send them out to do small unit patrols, I see the potential for escalation – something like what happened in June of 2020, where perhaps a platoon or a complete battalion size element clashes with the other side. There may not be immediate command and control withhigher headquarters, and things could spiral out of control and that's what worries me in all of these places – that a miscalculation, a mistake or misidentification could cause something much bigger. But if that does not happen, what I do see is the PLA digging in to stay in these encampments, in the sectors that I have described – they look like they are to stay for quite some time. Now, it's not infrastructure, it's not as expensive doing all of that as it is building facilities. So the good thing that I see between the Indian and Chinese sides is that at least they are having meetings. They may not amount to much, but at least you are talking. Talking is better than not talking. And, it is possible, the Generals who meet aren't going to make these decisions but if they are told by Delhi or Beijing to come to some sort of agreement, there could be a political way out of this. In all of these, both sides are going to have to make some concessions in some ways. I do see the Chinese, if there is no political resolution through negotiations, they are prepared to stay for a long time and rotate units in. To the best of my knowledge, I have only seen units coming from Xinjiangbut if they stay there for years on end, they may bring units from other places if it goes on that long. This to me is a very important test, not so much tactically about how they can fight, but about how they can actually live in such austere conditions, and support them with such  large deployments of forces for such extended periods of time. This is a very difficult logistics operation to keep that many people in the field, healthy and prepared to fight if necessary.Sushant: Dennis, that's something we look forward to about how the PLA behaves. I am happy to end on a very hopeful note, that things would probably look up and there would be a political solution to this crisis between two of Asia's biggest countries, two of Asia's biggest powers. Thank you so much Dennis for coming onto the podcast. Thank you once again.Thank You for Listening. For more information on our work, follow us on Twitter and log on to our website at https://cprindia.org/

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Guiding Your Son Through Boyhood Guest:                        Dennis RaineyFrom the series:       Stepping Up (day 2 of 5) Dennis:   You ever been lost?  Really lost in the woods?  Well, you know what?  I got lost, and there were no markers.  The land was flat, it was cold, and the sun was going down.  I didn't have a GPS on me.  I didn't have a compass.  I had no way to tell where to go or how to get out of there.  I admit that I was on the verge of panic.   That sense of being lost is what a boy can feel growing up today without a father guiding him.                                                                                                      Bob:  This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, March 8th.  Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We're going to talk about what we can do to help boys get pointed on the right path and pointed in the right direction as they step up to manhood.   Welcome to FamilyLife Today; thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition.  Just wondering what's in the water there at the Rainey house?  Your wife writes this devotional for families around courage.  Now, you've got this book for men on courageous manhood.  Are they spiking you with something out there? Dennis:  You know it is in the country.  There is no telling.  I do think Barbara and I have been preaching to one another.  Do you think? Bob:  I just sense a little bit of this passion in your souls to see men, women, and children kind of step up and be courageous. Dennis:  Bob, I think this culture is robbing us of our courage.  I think it is discouraging us.  I think many are losing heart in well-doing as a result.  If there has ever been a time when, frankly, men needed to be encouraged, I believe it's today. Bob:  Well, now, this is a theme that has been simmering in your heart for almost a decade, maybe longer than a decade, as you've been in a number of settings challenging men to step up to courageous manhood.  Now, you've written a book that's called Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood. You break the book down—this is interesting—into six sections to help orient guys to the progression that you're calling them to. Dennis:  We do.  The first section is just all about courage.  Then, each of the following five sections are about the steps: stepping up to boyhood, adolescents, manhood, mentor, and patriarch.  Each of those six sections of the book begin with a story of courage.   Bob:  Let me ask you about boys stepping up to boyhood.  It seems like boyhood is something that just kind of happens to you.  It's not something that as a boy you're all that intentional about.  In fact, you're just kind of going through life, and the question is are you heeding direction or are you just following your own impulses? Dennis:  I clipped a cartoon out of a magazine that had a picture of a five year old boy barefoot and no shirt in cutoff jeans walking down a dusty, dirty road.  He had two cats that he was carrying, whose tails were tied together.  He was carrying them, you know, where the tails kind of were caught in the crook of his arm.  The caption on the cartoon read, “And he was bound to acquire experience rapidly.”    That's what boyhood is all about.  He's growing up through the childish years getting all this experience, but what has to happen?  He has to have an older man in his life directing that experience.  So, that as he grows from boyhood into adolescence, there is character there; there's the wisdom to know the right from wrong and enough of a conscience that he can begin to turn away from evil and make right choices.   Boyhood does just seem like a time when life does happen to him, but it's a time when every boy needs a father. Bob:  Tragically, we live a culture where there are a lot of boys who don't have fathers.  If a boy doesn't have a father or someone stepping in to provide direction, to say, “Here's where manhood is, come on follow me. Come this direction,” then, the carnal impulses take over and what you have is masculinity gone amok. Dennis:  Yes.  Newsweek, a few years back, ran an article called “The Trouble with Boys.”  They said in that article that one of the most reliable predictors of whether a boy will succeed or fail in high school rests upon a single question, one question: does he have a man in his life to look up to?  Unfortunately, in many cases, the answer is no.   I ran across this quote.  I've not been able to find out who said it, but it has a pound of wisdom in it.  It says, “A boy without a father is like an explorer without a map.”  That's what a boy is.  He's starting out life, and it's uncharted.  He doesn't have the experience to know how to deal with it.  Who is he going to look to, to gain the experience he needs to know how to navigate the valleys, the danger spots, the mountains?   There is a lot of life that just happens to us, but as we know, there is a lot of evil that can occur in a boy and for that matter a teenager's life before they make it to manhood. Bob:  I don't think when I became a father for the first time that I understood the responsibility of calling sons to manhood.  I don't know that I understood that mantle being put on my shoulders.  Did your dad assume that responsibility in your life?  Did he understand what it was that God had called him to do, do you think? Dennis:  This is one of the more fascinating stories of my life, Bob.  My dad had a profound impact on my life, but I have no idea where he got the training to do it because his dad deserted him as a boy.  He was in his early teenage years when his dad basically abandoned the family of eight children and kind of went his own way.   I grew up in a town of thirteen hundred people—I like to say I had a big dad in a small town.  My dad was big in my life because he was involved in my life.  He coached my little league team.  The first game we got beat twenty-two to nothing to the Early Birds.  Three years later we played them for the semi-finals.  If we'd won, we'd gone on to the championship of our age group.  They beat us again, but it was only three to two.  Now, isn't it interesting that I can remember that?   Well, the reason I remember that is I had a dad.  I've still got this picture of all of us: scruffy, little, little league baseball players.  I had a dad who was standing right in the middle of the picture.  Not that the focus was on him.  He was on the back row, but he was the coach.  He knew how to coach us in the fundamentals.  He taught me more than just the fundamentals of baseball; he taught me the fundamentals of life, of obedience to God, of having a character that has integrity.   He modeled it.  His life was granite solid.  It was amazing as I became a father like you're talking about, Bob, how many times I would go back to pictures of my father who was steady, who didn't leave, who didn't abandon me.   I know as I say this there are a bunch of our listeners who didn't have something like that.  They've had to pick up that mentoring of an older man in their life from another man, but every boy today needs a dad who sees that young lad as his responsibility.  I have no question that my dad loved me and that my dad was doing his best with what he'd been given to train me to be ready for life. Bob:  When I was a kid, I remember going to the dentist office.  The only thing I liked about the dentist office is they had a subscription to Highlights magazine.  Do you remember Highlights for kids? Dennis:  Oh, yes. Bob:  It had puzzles— Dennis:  Right. Bob:  And games and cartoons.  In every Highlights magazine, there was a cartoon series called Goofus and Gallant.  It was two boys.  One, Goofus, was always making foolish decisions; and Gallant was making wise decisions.  It was really a cartoon instructing in character.   I've thought about that since.  I've thought young boys growing up need to be pointed in the direction of character because their natural inclinations aren't going to lead them in that direction.  That is part of the responsibility a dad has.  For a boy to step into wise boyhood, they need to say, “I'm going to listen to the wisdom of a father or of older men and follow in their footsteps.” Dennis:  Bob, the book of Proverbs is all about that.  It is all about an older, wiser father speaking into the life of a boy calling his son to step up.  Now, it doesn't say in the Proverbs step up to manhood, but it is all over the pages.  Calling him away from foolishness to—was that Goofus? Bob:  Yes.  Right. Dennis:  To step up to wisdom, to Gallant. Bob:  Gallant.  Right. Dennis:  To Gallant.  If he's going to do that, he needs an older man whose arm is around him.  You know I can still remember watching the game of the week with my dad on Saturday afternoon.  My dad worked hard.  He worked five days a week and a half a day on Saturday.  Some days he would work all day on Saturday. I would go to sleep with him there in the living room on that couch with his arm around me.  I can still remember the hairs on his hand and his arm kind of touching my boyish face.  You know there is something about that that builds security, stability, direction.  As we grow up, it's what we call upon as we face our own challenges in life.   I'll never forget going deer hunting a number of years ago.  I used to laugh at people who would get lost in the woods.  Have you ever been lost by the way?  Really lost in the woods? Bob:  I've never been that deep into the woods.  I don't think.    Dennis:  You stayed away from the woods.  Well, you know what?  That's a good way not to be lost.   Well, I got lost, Bob.  I went in circles because I began to notice where I had been.  There were no markers.  The land was flat, it was cold, and the sun was going down.  I remember praying and going, “Lord, I'm lost.  I need help.  I need to get out of here.”  I admit that I was on the verge of panic.   Now, this was like—I don't know—twenty, twenty-five years ago.  When I finally stumbled out onto a logging road where I knew where I was, I was thrilled.  I didn't have a GPS on me.  I didn't have a compass.  I had no way to tell where to go or how to get out of there.  Well, you know what?  That sense of being lost is what a boy can feel growing up today without a father guiding him. I want to give dads just real quickly four points of direction to guide their sons.  Let's just call them compass points. Bob:  Okay. Dennis:  Compass point number one, character: train your son in what is wise and also what is foolish.  We just talked about the book of Proverbs.  That is what it is about.  Wisdom is skill in everyday living as God designed it. Bob:  I think as a dad you have to keep in mind that your son is naturally going to be drawn to foolishness.  “Foolishness is bound up,” Proverbs says, “in the heart of a child.”  As a dad, you're going to have to use up a variety of means to call him away from foolishness and to godly character.  He is not going to be naturally inclined in that direction. Dennis:  I'll never forget going to my dad's place of work.  If he said this to me one time, he said it a hundred times, “Son, these people are working.  Do not bother them.”      I think I just had a blast walking through the office talking to everybody because my dad owned the little company, you know.  “Son, I want you to know they're at work.  Don't bother—” Bob:  Leave them alone. Dennis:  “—the people.”  That's a very minor foolishness; but nonetheless, it's is foolishness.   A second point for our compasses are relationships: how do I love others?  The first one talks about our character: people being able to trust us that what we say is good. Bob:  What kind of person am I?  Dennis:  Right. Bob:  Yes. Dennis:  How we love other people is how we relate to them, care for them; how we're gentle with them, kind with them, forgive them, resolving conflicts with them.Bob:  So, what you're saying is that a father has a responsibility to help a son understand how to have healthy relationships with other people: with women, with siblings, with friends.  Just understand how to relate to people. Dennis:  Your family is a laboratory, and you're training your son how to live life and how to love other people.  Some of the lessons you are going to pass on to your sons are going to be out of your mistakes.  When you make a mistake and you have to ask your wife to forgive you in front of your kids, as I have done on more than one occasion.   On those occasions, some of them I would turn to the kids.  I would say, “You know, you're not going to remember your dad was perfect; but I do hope what you remember about him is that when he made a mistake and hurt another person, he was enough of a man that he could admit it and ask that other person to forgive him.” Identity is the third one.  That answers the question, who am I?  There are multiple areas today where that's got to be addressed with a boy.  One is “Who is he in relationship with God?” because it is only as he determines who God is in the Scriptures in his relationship to Jesus Christ that he is going to have a proper identity of who he is.   There's also the issue of sexual identity and what does it mean to be a boy and not a girl?  What does it mean to be a man and not a woman?  He is getting his first cues from his father as to how comfortable his father is in his own sexuality and how he treats his wife in terms of courtesies, in terms of serving her, in terms of her distinct femininity as a woman.  It is really those snapshots that a boy catches growing up in his home where he gets his first picture of what is a man and how does a man relate comfortably with a woman. Bob:  So, identity revolves around sexual identity; but you also said spiritual identity, understanding that your nature is prone to sin and that you are in need of a Savior and understanding who God is and the fact that life is to be lived for Him.  What is the last point on the compass? Dennis:  Well, it has to do with our mission and why am I here.  What is my purpose?  Ephesians 2:10 talks about “We're His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works that He prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” I'll never forget a boy that my sons used to have over to the house, and I'll call him Mark.  His mom had, had four husbands.  Mark had not known a man in his life to be there consistently.  I don't know what prompted me one day, but I looked him in the eye; and I said, “Mark, God has a plan for you being here.  He has got something very, very powerful for you to do with your life if you'll but walk with Him and know Him and set Christ apart in your heart as Savior and Lord.”   It was interesting that was early in my adolescent sons' lives.  Mark continued to track with our kids all the way until his senior year, and he did some pretty dumb things.  Our paths crossed again.  I had to kind of pull our sons away and say, “You know I don't think it would be wise to continue to spend time with Mark.”   It was interesting Mark ran into me at school one day; and he said, “Mr. Rainey, I noticed that your sons are no longer running around with me.  I thought you believed that God had a plan for my life.”  Now, Bob, this is four years later.   Words to a young lad, especially a young lad growing up in the confusing years of adolescence, can be used in that boy's life to really center him and begin to set him on a course where maybe he begins to think about his life as something other than just on the human level; maybe he is created in the image of God; and there are spiritual purposes to his life that he needs to fulfill. A father, I believe, can have an enormous impact in his son's life reminding him of the truth about himself: that God has a plan for him.   Bob:  We're really back to the map illustration that you used earlier.  If a young child, if a young son, doesn't have compass points—doesn't have a map to point him in a direction, he will wander aimlessly and often wind up in a place that is not a good place.  It is a dad's responsibility to point him in the right direction and to give him those compass points; so, that where he winds up is a good place. Dennis:  Yes.  What a dad needs to understand is he possesses the DNA of life.  If you as a father are walking with Jesus Christ and you're in the Book, the Bible, you possess that DNA to pass on to your sons to show them how to live.  I love a poem that was written by General Douglas MacArthur because, as you might imagine as a general, he had a goal in mind especially for his son.  Let me just share this poem that I include in the book: Build me a son, O Lord, who will be strong enough to know when he is weak and brave enough to face himself when he is afraid; one who will be proud and unbending in honest defeat, and humble and gentle in victory.   Build me a son whose wishbone will not be where his backbone should be;  a son who will know Thee—and that to know himself is the foundation stone of knowledge.   Lead him, I pray, not in the path of ease and comfort, but under the stress and the spur of difficulties and challenge.  Here, let him learn to stand up in the storm; here, let him learn compassion for those who fail.   Build me a son whose heart will be clear, whose goal will be high; a son who will master himself before he seeks to master other men; one who will learn to laugh, yet never forget how to weep; one who will reach into the future, yet never forget the past.   And after all these things are his, add, I pray, enough of a sense of humor, so that he may always be serious, yet never take himself too seriously.   Give him humility, so that he may always remember the simplicity of true greatness, the open mind of true wisdom, the meekness of true strength.   Now, listen to how this general concludes this prayer and his poem:             Then, I, his father, will dare to whisper, “I have not lived in vain.” There isn't a dad listening to us right now who doesn't understand the heart of that general because you want to impart the DNA of life and a sense of direction to our boys; so, they aren't caught off guard, but they live effective lives for Jesus Christ. Bob:  I think one of the things that causes dads to shrink back sometimes is that they lack confidence in their own direction.  They're not sure they are pointing in the right direction.  That is one of the reasons, I think, your book is going to be so helpful for so many of us because it gives us a clear picture of what the path to manhood looks like, what authentic, biblical manhood is.  Then, it takes us passed that to see that just being God's man is not where things stop, but God has a design for us even beyond that. I want to encourage our listeners.  This week we are making your book available to those who can help support the ministry with a donation.  All you have to do is go online to FamilyLifeToday.com.  Make an online donation or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.  When you do, you can request a copy of Dennis's new book, Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood.   Right now, the book is not available in stores or on Amazon; so, the only place you can get a copy is from us here at FamilyLife Today.  Again, go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.  Make an online donation.  When you do, type the word “STEPUP,” all as one word in the key code box on the online donation form.  Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and make a donation over the phone.  Just ask for a copy of the book, Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood, by Dennis Rainey; and we'll get it sent out to you. If you're interested in multiple copies of the book, either for a men's group study or for whatever other reason you're interested in ordering additional copies, you can find the details for how to purchase additional copies online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Now, tomorrow we're going to talk about the transitional phase of adolescence that phase in between boyhood and manhood.  Just how long should a young man stay in that phase?  What does that look like to pass through it?  We'll talk about that tomorrow.  I hope you can tune in. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.   FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.  Help for today.  Hope for tomorrow. We are so happy to provide these transcripts. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?2011 Copyright © FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com 

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Approaching Adolescence  Guest:                        Dennis RaineyFrom the series:       Stepping Up (day 3 of 5)  Bob:  One of the key steps a young man will take as he progresses toward courageous, authentic, biblical masculinity is the step where he begins to assume more responsibility.  Here's Dennis Rainey. Dennis:  You know what?  As a young man, get used to stepping up.  Get used to taking on more responsibility because it is the stuff of manhood.  It's why God created you.  Back in Genesis, chapter one, you were designed to reign over the creation and make a living by the sweat of your brow and be a part of God's redemptive work on the planet. Bob:  This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, March 9th.  Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We're going to explore today what has to happen for a young man to move through adolescence and to embrace authentic masculinity.   Welcome to FamilyLife Today.  Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition.   We're going to have to start with some definition, maybe, or some discussion here at the beginning.  You've just finished a book that you call Stepping Up, a Call to Courageous Manhood.  You're challenging men to step up.   One of the things you address in this book is the idea that men go through a middle phase, from boyhood to manhood, the phase of adolescence.  You know there are people in the culture today who push back on that whole idea of adolescence and say that's an artificial construct.  Back a hundred years ago there was no such thing as an adolescent.  You just went from boyhood to manhood.  So what do you say to that, huh? Dennis:  Well, they're right.  It wasn't even in the dictionary at the turn of the twentieth century.  In the early nineteen hundreds there were two steps, boyhood and manhood.  There wasn't anything in between.  You stepped up from boyhood to manhood and probably did so at a much earlier age back then than we do today. Bob:  So you'd have teenagers, young men, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years old getting married, taking jobs…Dennis:  Oh, yeah!  Right. Bob:  …taking responsibilities for families.  The idea that there would be an extended period where you would learn and study and grow and just kind of enjoy life before you got down to the duties and responsibilities of adulthood?  That just didn't exist. Dennis:  It didn't.  In fact there's a guy who wrote a book, Dr. Michael Kimmel, called Guyland.  In it he describes a world where young men live.  He said it's a stage of life, an undefined timespan between adolescence and adulthood that can stretch out for a decade or more.  It's a bunch of places where guys gather to be guys with each other, unhassled by the demands of parents, girlfriends, jobs, kids and other nuisances of adult life.   What he's saying is he actually wants to add another step between adolescence and manhood, one that can go on into the late twenties.  In fact, it's happening! Bob:  Guyhood? Dennis:  Guyland, I guess.  I don't know. Bob:  You get your video game controller and you work a job where you can go home and sit down with the dudes and crack some beers and get out the videogames and have a blast. Dennis:  Yeah.  In fact, listen to this statement that Dr. Kimmel concludes with.  He says, “In this topsy turvy Peter Pan mindset, young men shirk the responsibilities of adulthood and remain fixated on the trappings of boyhood while the boys they still are struggle heroically to prove that they are real men, despite all the evidence to the contrary.” Bob:  Well, he's really just saying that adolescence has been extended in our culture and there's kind of this state of perpetual adolescence.  In fact, again as you've addressed in this book and you've spoken to men, you're calling all of us to step out of what is that inertia that pulls us back into the irresponsibility of adolescence and say “Step up to the responsibility of manhood.” Dennis:  I don't think it's wrong that adolescence ultimately emerged.  I think what has become a trap, however, is when young men are allowed to stay in some in-between world, in between boyhood and manhood for an extended period of time where no one in the culture, no one in their family, no one in their lives, is stepping into their lives and saying, “It's time to grow up.  It's time to assume responsibilities.”   I have to say it's interesting in this culture to watch a bunch of single people, for that matter single men, moving into their thirties delaying marriage with one foot in boyhood, one foot in adolescence.  I think they need some older men in their lives who are on the steps above, looking down at them, and not in an arrogant fashion, but reaching down to them, saying, “Come on up.”   It may be frightening.  It may feel like it is more responsibility, because it is but you need to get out of childhood.  As Paul said in 1 Corinthians, chapter 13, verse 11, “When I was a boy I acted like a boy.  I behaved like a boy.  I spoke like a boy.  But when I grew up I put away childish things.”  We need a generation of young men putting away childish things. Bob:  But you know the messages they're getting in the culture, the messages on TV, from their peer group, the messages in the movies, and even the message of their own flesh, it's not calling them to put away childish things.  It's saying, “This is a time for fun.  Enjoy it!” Dennis: Well, you were a teenage young man one time. Bob:  I was!  I remember! Dennis:  Do you remember it?  I mean, it was totally confusing and life was a lot simpler back then.  But what's happening today I fear, is the older men in the lives of these young men, instead of reaching out with their hand and calling them to step up, they're not challenging them to much of anything.  They've forgotten what it was like. Let me just read to you what I wrote in the book in terms of what teenage boys are facing today.  “A teenage boy's body is changing in strange and foreign ways.”  Think about it!  I mean, hair growing in some unusual places!  What's he supposed to do?  He's starting to think about things he's never thought about before.  All of a sudden, sexual allurement and the mystery of sex becomes powerful.  If you've never been spoken to about this, what's a boy, a young man, going to do with all that? Secondly, he's bombarded with bewildering thoughts and choices about sex and morality.  In other words, when can he have sex?  Now he's thinking about it.  What is appropriate?  If you watch what's on TV, there are no boundaries.   Barbara and I sat at the movies back around Christmas watching previews and there was, and I forget the name of the movie and I'm glad I'm forgetting it here, because I don't want to give it any advertising, but it was all about having sex.  That was the theme of the entire movie.   It was like all these single people were just born for this purpose, to just figure out how to ultimately make out and get in bed with one another.  There was no restraint on passion.  So here are teenage boys coming to a movie like that.  What are they supposed to do with those images? Third, he faces relentless, unbelievable peer pressure, friends encouraging, enticing him to go along with, frankly, barbaric ways.  I mean teenage boys left to go their own route are going to be little barbarians. Next, he battles an emotional upheaval of anger, sometimes rage that he has no idea where it's coming from.  I watched out sons going through this.  Without a strong daddy in their lives, they can be punitive upon a mom. Bob:  They're getting some hormones squirted into their systems that haven't been squirted there before and aggression is a part of what comes with that.  It's got to be directed and it's got to be channeled. Dennis:  Yes.  And in this culture, in addition to all that, he's also has to deal with other people's expectations.  I mean, with all the expectations around the tests they're taking, the college they go to, how well their grades are, it's pressure on pressure on pressure.   The last one is he feels this strong gravitational pull toward independence.  He wants to spin out and away from the family orbit and establish his own authority away from his parent's authority all on his own. Bob:  And that's a good thing, isn't it?   Dennis:  It is. Bob:  …that he wants to do that? Dennis:  It is.  But it is if he's trustworthy, if he's been trained, if he understands how to begin to exercise his own authority. Bob:  If he wants to kind of be in charge of his own universe simply so he can indulge his own fleshy desires then that's a recipe for trouble. Dennis:  It is. Bob:  But if he wants to be out on his own so that he can subdue the earth and fulfill it as the biblical mandate calls him to do, then that's a good thing. Dennis:  Yes.  But just pull back for a second and think as a parent. Here's a young man that you're observing that has this wash of chemicals and hormones surging through his system, all these outside forces impacting him.  He's spinning off to his own orbit and two things can happen with parents.  One, I call the push back and the other is what I call the pull out.   The push back is when a young man begins to push back against his parents, specifically his father, and the father lets him.  He lets him push him back and push him out of his life so that the father is not in there helping him navigate uncharted waters.   The second area is the pull out.  Some parents just get busy and it's a hassle to engage your teenagers.  The easiest thing to do, again, is nothing.  So a dad can pull out of his son's life, in my opinion, at one of the most dangerous, most important times, when a young man needs an older man, in his entire life. Bob:  So ideally, as I hear you describing all of this, I'm thinking to myself ideally you want to get a son from boyhood to manhood kind of as quickly as possible, get him  through the adolescent rapids as quickly as you can? Dennis: Well, you know, you really understand why back at the turn of the twentieth century, why they got married and started their own families.  These young men had to step up and had to assume the responsibilities of a man.  They were given no other choices.  The problem is we've built an entertainment culture appealing to these teenagers, enticing them to stay in this phase well into their twenties. Bob:  A lot of the young men at the turn of the century weren't in school after the seventh or the eighth grade.  Now they're in school to college and beyond and their only responsibility is to study. There's no job.  There's no work.  All of a sudden you've got all this free time.  I mean, I remember when I was a student thinking, “Boy, I've got no free time.”  Well, I'd go back and trade, you know? Dennis:  No doubt. Bob:  …because you've got all kinds of time.  If there's no direct responsibility attached to that, that's a recipe for mischief. Dennis:  You know, Bob, my boys at this point would cringe because they know exactly what I'm about to say.  When they entered that phase I would look at them and I said, “You have the least amount of responsibility you will have for the rest of your life.”  But the idea there is that, you know what, as a young man, get used to stepping up.  Get used to taking on more responsibility because it is the stuff of manhood.   It is why God created you.  Back in Genesis, chapter 1, you were designed by God to rule.  You were designed to reign over the creation and make a living by the sweat of your brow and be a part of God's redemptive work on the planet.   Probably the best illustration I have of what the teenage years look like and the assignment of a father during those years, used to occur as I completed my sixth grade Sunday school class.  Now this was a class I used to teach.  I had seventy, seventy-five young people in that class so it wasn't just to the boys.  But I would always use a boy to illustrate the last principle. Bob:   Now this was seventy twelve year olds? Dennis:  Yes, eleven and twelve year olds. Bob:  Oh my goodness.  Alright… Dennis:  What I did in that class was I used to call it the traps of adolescence.  So I had a bear trap that represented sexual immorality.  I had smaller traps that represented drugs and alcohol and pornography, other traps that represented peer pressure.  I had a dozen traps that were illustrated.   For the last session I had all the traps set on the floor.  It's a miracle, Bob, that in all the years I taught this I never once caught a kid.  They never once stepped in any of those traps!  I was relieved! Bob:  It was a miracle that the Fish and Game people didn't come in and shut down your Sunday school class! Dennis:  No doubt about it. But I had all these traps and kids knew what those traps stood for.  So I took a young man on the other side of the traps, on the other side of the rooms, and he could see the traps in front of him, and I blindfolded him.  Then I said, “I want you to take off your shoes.”   And on the other side of the room, with the traps in between us and the young lad, was his father.  I instructed the father in what they were supposed to do.  I would say to the young man, “On the count of three I want you to come to your father and to me.  It's representing going through adolescence all the way to adulthood.” Bob:  So come barefoot through the traps with blindfolds on? Dennis:  Right!  Exactly!  And I would say, “One.  Two.”  And the father would interrupt me every time and say, “Hold it son.  Don't' take a step!”   He would walk over, around the traps, would go over and whisper to his son, “I want you to stick your hands on the back of my shoulders and I want you to scoot along and follow me very closely because we are going in between these traps.   So the father would begin scooting through those traps, all of this taking place in front of seventy-five young people about to encounter these traps and the parents who were about to raise them.  They were in the room too because this was graduation.   The father and the young man, closely behind him, would make it through to the other side and the class always began to applaud and clap and cheer as they finished it and the young man took his blindfold off and gave his father a hug.   That's a picture of what adolescence was meant to look like--a father in the midst of doing life with his son, in the midst of the traps.  First and foremost, staying out of the traps himself. Bob:  Right. Dennis:  And then calling his son to step up and away from the traps and to step with him toward manhood.   What is missing today are the fathers walking around the traps and then sticking with it all the way through the next five, six, seven years.  It's not a matter of having one birds and bees conversation with a thirteen year old boy.  It's a matter of talking with him as you're watching a football game and a commercial comes on and you tell him to look away.   It's a matter of talking about the movies he goes to and having boundaries in his life.  It's a matter of training him to know how to deal with the opposite sex and honor a young ladies' femininity by keeping his hands off of her body.   Young men today, more than ever, need a daddy, a daddy who is on the manhood step facing upwards, who knows who he is as a man, who's not dabbling in pornography himself, so he can reach down to his son and say, “Let's go.  Come on.  Follow me as I follow Jesus Christ.” Bob:  The dads who are there and who can't reach back because they're got one foot still stuck in adolescence themselves?  How do they get unstuck? Dennis:  As we've talked here Bob, we've created a picture of five steps, a step going upwards from boyhood to adolescence, from adolescence to manhood, manhood to mentor, and, the ultimate step and most noble call for a man, that of being a patriarch.   We also created an image that a man can find himself with one foot on the manhood step and one foot on the lower step of adolescence, standing sideways.  When a man finds himself standing sideways, he has to realize a couple of things.   Number one, his own life is in peril.  Number two, the kind of model he is leaving for his son, and for that matter the rest of his family, is not a good one.  And third, he needs to realize that from time to time all of us make foolish decisions.   All of us step down and we have to turn our back, that's call repentance in the Bible, we have to turn our back on selfishness and on sin and turn away from it and turn upward toward Jesus Christ and the scriptures and being obedient to what God has called him to do.  So I wish it was a simple matter of just turning away from evil one time and stepping up.  But it's never just that.   I mean, it occurs as we walk in the middle of an airport and you look over in the magazine stand.  I don't ask to see those pictures.  I don't ask to have those magazines faced outward to me, thirty feet away, not even going into the book store that's in the airport.  But they're there and they can be a temptation and they can call a man away from what he knows is right to becoming a doorway through which sin can gain entrance, not only to his own life, but also to his son's. There's a warning in scripture that the sin of one generation will be passed down to four generations.  To me that's a frightening thought, that my life would be used to pass on sin rather than righteousness to my descendants. Bob:  If a dad is going to lead his son through the phase of adolescence to manhood, the dad's got to have a pretty secure standing on the manhood step himself. Dennis:  He'd better keep short accounts with God.  All of us make mistakes.  I've shared many of them here on FamilyLife Today.  I run into listeners all around the country who says, “You know what?  We appreciate the no baloney approach to the Christian faith and to real life as we all live it.”   I've shared about cutting down trees in front of my own son.  And I've shared to repenting of cutting down a tree that wasn't on my property and calling the owner of that tree and confessing my sin and offering to pay restitution in front of my son.  Now that's no fun.  But you know what?  It's a part of showing our sons where to find life. Proverbs 4:23 says, “Guard your heart for from it flow the wellsprings of life.”  My heart is a precious thing for life in terms of it beating right now.  It's also a precious thing, if I understand the scriptures, spiritually,  for me to continue to guard my heart so that I might be a source of life, that my life might be a spring that would come from my life to my wife, to my sons, to my daughters, and to those that I impact and influence.  That's a great picture for any man standing on the manhood step.  There needs to be a stream of water influencing all those around him. Bob:  I think it's helpful, and this is one of the things you do so well in the book, men need to see that the essence of authentic manhood involves sacrifice, involves laying down your life, giving your life away for others.  It's not about being a man for yourself.  It's about being a man for others and dying to self. That's what's at the heart of authentic manhood.   I want to encourage listeners to get a copy of this new book.  Again, it's called Stepping Up—A Call to Courageous Manhood.  This week we want to send it to you.  All we're asking you is that you make a donation to help support the ministry.  When you do, we're happy to send you a copy of Dennis's brand new book.   If you're donating on line at FamilyLifeToday.com, when you open up the donation form there's a key code box there.  Just type “STEPUP” in the key code box and we'll know to send you a copy of Dennis's book.   Or call 1-800-FLToday and make a donation over the phone.  Again, just ask for a copy of Dennis' book when you do. Right now the only place the book is available is here at FamilyLife so, if you want to get a copy, go online or call us and make a donation.  If you're interested in multiple copies of the book, those are available for purchase as well.  I know there are a lot of men's groups that are going to look at doing a book like this for a men's study.  So if you want to get multiple copies, contact us, again, online at FamilyLifeToday.com or when you call 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word “Today.” Now tomorrow we're going to talk about what authentic, mature masculinity looks like.  What are some of the characteristics of someone who has stepped up to manhood?  We'll talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.   FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.  Help for today.  Hope for tomorrow. We are so happy to provide these transcripts. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider f to help defray the costs?2011 Copyright © FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com 

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. A Call to Manhood Guest:                        Dennis Rainey          From the series:       Stepping Up (day 5 of 5) Bob:  As a husband and as a dad, Dennis Rainey has not always done it right.  He remembers times when he embraced his role to lead courageously. Dennis:  I remember one time when our daughters came downstairs ready for church, and one of our daughters was wearing a dress that was immodest.  Instead of telling her to go change I was wimpy.  I didn't engage her because I didn't want to experience the pain of the conflict, and so I was a good man who did nothing.   All of us make mistakes that we can look back on and have some regrets about, but the key is, as we look forward, how are you going to protect your family today?  How are you as a man going to take responsibility and not give evil a chance to triumph in your family? Bob:  This is FamilyLifeToday for Friday, March 11th.  Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll talk today about what it means for a man to be on the alert, to stand firm in the faith, to act like a man and to be strong, to let all that he does be done in love.   And welcome to FamilyLife Today.  Thanks for joining us.  You think those who have been with us all this week have been kind of feeling the – smelling the testosterone as we've been talking about what authentic manhood ought to look like? Dennis:  Calling men to step up.  In fact, a call to courageous manhood is what we have been talking about.  You know, here's the thing, Bob:  We watch TV.  We watch a sporting event.  We watch the golfers, the football players, the baseball players, basketball, doesn't matter what season it is, and you hear somebody say, “He stepped up his game.” Bob:  Yes. Dennis:  We're used to using this phrase, stepping up.  It is used all the time.  Now I know I am sensitive to those two words because that's the name of a book that I just finished, that I've been working on for more than 10 years.  But I do feel like men today need someone in their lives calling them to step up and out of boyhood and adolescence and step fully into manhood and to be the man God made them to be. Bob:  Well, and we've already acknowledged this week that this is a theme that God seems to be stirring in our culture today.  We talked about the movie that's coming out in the fall that the folks at Sherwood Baptist have put together called Courageous.  It's around the same theme. Dennis:  It is.  In fact it's interesting that so many different Christian organizations, groups, and churches are all raising the same issue.  The guys at Sherwood seem to have their fingers on a pulse that I believe is something God wants to do in the church.  I think this movie is going to stir individual Christians, and I hope men to step up and be courageous in their most fundamental callings in life. Bob:  Give me a definition of courage.  Can you do that?  I mean, how do I understand what courage looks like biblically? Dennis:  Well, courage is doing your duty in the face of fear.  Doesn't mean you don't have fear.  In fact, one of my favorite questions to ask at a dinner table – I think you've probably been at a few meals – Bob:  I've been the victim of this question before, yes. Dennis:  You get at a table that's a round table and has four or five couples at it, or ten people at your table.  You hate to bore one another with yourselves, you know.  Life is too short.  Let's cut to the chase; let's talk about some stuff of meaning, you know?  So I like to ask the question, “What is the most courageous thing you've ever done in all your life?”  It's been interesting to look at how people have answered it.   People have talked about a decision at work to push back against deceptive business practices where it could have cost them their jobs, maybe stepping away from their existing job and pursuing a dream.  Others have protected an unborn life.  I've heard young men answer this question talking about stepping up and away from pornography.   But the most frequent answer to the question, “What's the most courageous thing you've ever done?” usually involves the person's father, where they stepped up and either took another job and didn't go to work for the family company – recently I was at a dinner table and a man said “It was my decision to not go to work for my father but go to college.  I was the first person in our family to go to college.”   There's something about our parents, standing up to our parents and taking a stand for what we believe God wants us to do that calls upon a bedrock of courage from a man's life. Bob:  And not to do that disrespectfully; to do it in the context of honor, but there is something about declaring, “I can navigate life apart from your guiding me.” Dennis:  I actually think it is a form of a rite of passage, as you've said, to adulthood, where we take a stand and we go, “You know what?  I'm my own person.  God has a plan for me.  I'm fulfilling that plan, and I will honor you, but I am going to be obedient to the God who has called me to do this thing.” Bob:  What you've done in the book is kind of chart the trajectory a man follows from boyhood, which dads can help make more intentional for their sons by pointing them in the right direction and calling them onto the right path, and then adolescence, which is full of all kinds of traps that a young man needs to be navigated through so that he can get to mature manhood. Dennis:  And one that every man needs to understand that his son desperately needs him to engage him during this period of time and not just kind of wipe his hands and say, “It's done.  He's a teenager now; he's 16, 17, 18 years old.  My influence is over.”  No it's not.   There will come a time when your influence will be lessened substantially, but until that time we're charging men to reach down to those young men in adolescence and call them fully up to the manhood step.  Step on up to what it means to be a man, and step away from, well, the lure of childishness and acting like a boy and prolonging youthfulness too long. Bob:  Well, if a guy is going to call younger man to step fully up onto the platform of manhood, he's got to be there himself, and to be there he's got to know what it looks like.  And as we've already said, a lot of guys just don't know what it looks like.   You've said it looks like taking initiative rather than just drifting into passivity, and one of the places where that initiative starts is in the area of spiritual initiative:  being a spiritual leader in a marriage relationship and in a home, in a community.  A single man can still be a spiritual leader in his community, whether he's exercising that in a home setting or not.  But it goes beyond spiritual initiative, doesn't it? Dennis:  It does.  It goes to the area of protecting, protecting your own life, your own heart; protecting your wife; and protecting your children and your family.  I believe, for a number of men today, Bob, I believe they are being called to protect their community.  They are being called to make a difference where they live, in their church, in their neighborhood, perhaps in a larger span of control in their community or state.  But I believe men are called to protect others who could be preyed upon by evil.   One quick quote here:  it's a familiar quote by Edmund Burke.  He said, “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”  I actually spent a good bit of time in one of the chapters of the book talking about how good men, really good men, can easily do nothing.  In fact, from my own life I wrote about some of the things that I wish I had pushed back against.   As a single man, I didn't push back against peer pressure, and I went with the flow.  I'm ashamed of the evil that I encouraged and participated in.  As a married man, early in our marriage I didn't protect my wife when we had six kids in ten years, for example -- all the demands and expectations of others who had no idea of the load she was carrying.  I should have protected her.   I remember one time when our daughters came downstairs ready for church, and one of our daughters was wearing a dress that was immodest.  Instead of telling her to go change I was wimpy.  I didn't engage her because I didn't want to experience the pain of the conflict, and so I was a good man who did nothing.  And then there was a time when a teacher at school really wasn't being very fair or kind to one of our children, and I allowed it to go on too long.  I finally did step up, but I should have stepped up sooner.   All of us make mistakes that we can look back on and have some regrets about, but the key is, as we look forward, how are you going to protect your family today?  How are you as a man going to take responsibility and not give evil a chance to triumph in your family? Bob:  You know, I'll never forget hearing an essay on the radio.  This was more than a decade ago.  The essayist is a woman named Frederica Mathewes-Green.  She was talking about her daughter working at a pizza restaurant, and her daughter was a delivery driver for the pizza restaurant.  And she said, “My daughter told me that one night at work an order came in and they read it out.  She was the next one to take out pizzas, and they read out, ‘Okay, here's your order.  It does to –‘and they read out the address.”  She said, “The guy standing next to me grabbed it out of my arms and he said, ‘I'll take that.  You're not going to that part of town.' “  And Frederica Mathewes-Green said, “You know, we live in a culture that talks about gender equality and gender neutrality, but,” she said, “everybody can resonate with the idea that there are parts of town that you don't let young women go to by themselves.  They go accompanied by someone who will protect them.”  This idea of men being the protectors, I think goes bone-deep.  I think it resonates in the hearts of men and in the hearts of women.  Dennis:  It does, and I'll give you an illustration from our own marriage and family recently.  We just had our 17th grandbaby born, a little girl, Alice Pearl, six pounds, four ounces.  We're excited to welcome Alice Pearl to the family.  The question was, was Barbara going to go visit our daughter and son-in-law and celebrate the birth of the baby, and was she going to do it alone, or was she going to do it with me?   My schedule was such that I had a good excuse not to go, and yet, as I stepped back, I was actually thinking along the lines of the story you just told, about the wrong part of town.  I just don't like the idea of my wife traveling by herself, and if I can travel with her and get the car and get the bags and get the hotel room and get there safely, that just seems more prudent, rather than allowing my wife to go by herself.   She's gone by herself on occasion.  This particular occasion I could have stayed home.  But I chose to go with her because I wanted to see my granddaughter for one thing, and my daughter, but I also wanted to protect my wife.   There are a number of principles that I write about in the book Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood that I just want to list here, Bob, just in terms of coaching men on how to protect their wives and their families.   The first one is protecting your marriage.  I don't meet with women alone for lunch.  I don't have lunch with any other woman other than my wife.  I don't travel alone in a car with a woman other than my wife.  I don't meet with women in my office unless the door is open, or there's a window there, clearly evident, where everybody can see what's taking place in there.   As a man, you have ways that you communicate to your wife that you're protecting and preserving your marriage and your relationship.  Some of these things might seem like small matters, but to our wives it builds thirty-foot thick walls that are a hundred feet high around your marriage relationship, and it lets her know that you're the man, you're taking responsibility for her, and you're going to protect your relationship. Bob:  So as men we need to take initiative to establish concrete ways that we protect our marriage.  What else does protecting look like for a man? Dennis:  Well, there's one more way, too, that I forgot about, Bob.  We have date nights, a standing date night on Sunday night during the child-bearing and child-rearing years of our marriage.  Now we're empty nesters, so we can have a date any night.  But we took the time to preserve and protect our marriage in the midst of raising kids.  A lot of our listeners are in the midst of some of the most challenging days they'll ever experience as couples.   I just encourage the dads listening; find a way to discover a babysitter.  If you want to give your wife a great gift some of your wives would – they'll go crazy.  They'll say, “You found a babysitter so we could get away, so we could talk, so we could have some time together?”  That's really important in terms of protecting your marriage.   When it comes to protecting your family and your children, one of the most exciting ways that we've come up with here at FamilyLife is Passport to Purity.  There are a number of families that are taking their 11-, 12-, 13-year-olds through a weekend getaway called Passport to Purity.   There's nothing better than a dad getting away with his son and listening to those CDs and talking about issues of peer pressure, of self-esteem, of who God is in the young man's life, of moral boundaries, and also talking about sex and how far you're going to go with a girl prior to marriage, and helping that young man establish spiritual and moral boundaries in his life.  A boy at the age of 10, 11, 12, 13 really needs a daddy to talk with him honestly and frankly about this, and doesn't need him to back out of his life and allow the world to educate him. Bob:  Well, and you're up against some pretty stiff competition as a dad, because – Dennis:  Tell me about it. Bob:  -- the peer group, the culture, the impulses of your child's heart and life. Dennis:  The media that has access to your child's life.  If there has ever, ever been a time for men, and I'm going to use an old, agricultural term here – I know that, but the imagery is good – Jesus used it.  If there's ever been a time for a man to have both hands on the plow, looking straight ahead, knowing where he's going and how he's doing, it's today, especially with his marriage and with his children.  Helping your sons grow up to be young men who understand the sex drive and what's about to happen to their bodies before it happens, so they're not caught off guard. Bob:  Right.  You've got to be alert, you've got to be in the game, you have to know what's coming, and you have to be involved.  And that's not just during the pre-adolescent years.  That's all through adolescence. Dennis:  Yes.  And Passport to Purity will give you a great weekend with your son.  It also is a great weekend for a mother-daughter.  But what it does, is it will establish a foundation of knowledge and experience with your son so that, from that point, as you go through 13, 14, 15 years of age, all the way through adolescence, you'll be able to revisit those themes with your son.  And you'll be able talk with them about a simple illustration of how close to the edge of the cliff are you going to go with the opposite sex, son? Bob:  Right.  Right. Dennis:  So when you say that, instantly he knows exactly what you're talking about, and you can re-engage with him.  Our sons need us to engage with them, and especially around issues like pornography, not asking if they've seen anything, but what have they seen?   If you have a child who is 13, I'm sorry to report to you, but more than likely they have been exposed to some kind of pornography.  I would much rather my son, at the age of 13, 14, or 15 share that he had seen it and what he had seen and talk with me about it, than bury it and screw the lid down tight and hide it and be confused by it, and never talk to me as a father or his mom about it.   I would much rather that he talk with me and have the conversation and get it out in the open so we can talk about it.  And we can talk about the enticement, and we can have a discussion like you find in Proverbs chapters 4, 5, 6, and 7, where the older father is advising and admonishing the young man about the harlot, the prostitute, the one who entices with her dress, her look, and her invitations. Bob:  What does it look like for a dad to be protecting his daughter through the adolescent years and beyond?   Dennis:  Well, I think I mentioned this earlier, but I think a Dad needs to interview his daughter's dates.  I said plural, didn't I?  They will have multiple dates, more than likely. Many of our listeners have heard me talk about this, how I interviewed, I don't know, somewhere around 30, 35 young men.  I actually wished I'd had a t-shirt made that said, “I survived Mr. Rainey's interview.”   (laughter) But, you know, Bob, young men today really need dads to engage them and expect them to treat their daughters with dignity and nobility.   I got an email from a dad who had ready my book, Interviewing Your Daughter's Date, and he had interviewed a young man, and he talked about what he wanted to be when he finished growing up and was in adulthood.  The young man said, “I might like to be a fireman.”  And the father said, “That's good.  That's good.”   They finished their conversation, and evidently the young man passed muster because he allowed his daughter to go on a date with this young man.  And when the young man arrived at the door to pick up the father's daughter, the father stepped forward with the daughter, and also with something unusual in his hands; he had a fire extinguisher.   (laughter) He sent the fire extinguisher with his daughter and the young man -- Bob:  You want to be a firefighter, here's a tool, son. Dennis:  -- on the date!  That's a true story.  Happened to one of our listeners and they wrote us to tell us about it.  Here's the point:  As dads, we need to engage life where it's happening with our kids.  One of the big areas is a relationship with the opposite sex.   I haven't written this book, because I haven't finished interviewing all the guys yet that I have to interview, but I also think that dads need to have some heart-to-heart conversations with the young men who come to ask for their daughter's hand in marriage.   I've told the young men who have come to me asking for my daughters' hands in marriage that they could ask for the hand, but they couldn't have it until they meet with me and have four conversations around issues I know they're going to face after they get married.   Now here's the point, Bob:  After they get married, these conversations are off limits unless the young man invites you in to have these conversations.  But until he gets the prize, as a father – Bob:  The door is wide open. Dennis:  -- I'm telling you, it's not only open, it is our responsibility as daddies to protect our daughters before these young men get the prize, because after they get the prize, they may not be quite as teachable from you as a father as they currently are. Bob:  Well, and of course we've got copies of your book, Interviewing Your Daughter's Date in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.  And then Voddie Baucham wrote a book that's like the one you're talking about writing; he wrote a book called What He Must Be. . . If He Wants to Marry My Daughter, and we've got that in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center as well, so if our listeners are interested they can go online and get copies of those books.   But I think the big point you're making here is that there's a role that men play as protectors, and it's a part of what authentic, courageous, mature masculinity looks like.  And you cover that in the book that you've written called Stepping Up—A Call to Courageous Manhood, and I want to encourage our listeners to get a copy of that book this week.   In fact, if they can help us with a donation this week to support the ministry of FamilyLife Today, we'll send the book to them as a thank you gift.  All you have to do is go online at FamilyLifeToday.com and made a donation.   When you do, type the words “STEP UP” into the key code box on the online donation form, and we'll send a copy of Dennis' brand new book, Stepping Up—A Call to Courageous Manhood.  We'll send that out to you as a thank you gift for your donation.  Or, call 1-800-FLTODAY, make a donation over the phone, and again, ask for a copy of the book, Stepping Up, and we'll send it to you.   If you'd like to order multiple copies, those are available for sale.  You can find out more online or when you call us, but we want to make the book available this week to any of you who will help support the ministry.  We appreciate your financial support.  We are listener supported; without your donations we could not continue on this station and on our network of stations all across the country.  So thanks in advance for whatever you are able to do in supporting FamilyLife Today. And with that, we're going to wrap things up.  Hope you have a great weekend.  Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend.  And I hope you can join us on Monday.  Kay Arthur is going to be here, and we're going to talk about the problem of pain and about what the Bible has to say about it.  She has just written a new book called When the Hurt Runs Deep, and we'll visit with her on Monday.  Hope you can be here as well. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.   FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.  Help for today.  Hope for tomorrow. We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.  However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?  2011 Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved.www.FamilyLife.com