Podcasts about ephesians

If you're a Christian, can people tell that you're different from the surrounding culture? Study along with Truth For Life as Alistair Begg highlights four attributes that should mark the Christian community—individuals as well as the church as a whole. ----------------------------------------- • Click here and look for "FROM THE SERMON" to stream or read the full message. • This program is part of the sermon ‘A Study in Ephesians, Volume 3' • Learn more about our current resource, request your copy with a donation of any amount. Helpful Resources - Learn about God's salvation plan - Read our most recent articles - Subscribe to our daily devotional Follow Us YouTube | Instagram | Facebook | Twitter This listener-funded program features the clear, relevant Bible teaching of Alistair Begg. Today's program and nearly 3,000 messages can be streamed and shared for free at tfl.org thanks to the generous giving from monthly donors called Truthpartners. Learn more about this Gospel-sharing team or become one today. Thanks for listening to Truth For Life!

Life constantly tempts us to measure contentment by what we lack—but Scripture tells a different story. This Christian devotional explores how God is more than enough, even in a culture driven by comparison, accumulation, and the constant pursuit of “more.” Rooted in Psalm 4:7, this devotion invites believers to rediscover joy, peace, and lasting satisfaction found not in possessions, but in a secure relationship with God. Highlights Contentment grows when we focus on what God provides, not what we lack God’s joy surpasses material abundance and worldly success Gratitude reshapes our perspective in seasons of comparison True security comes from God, not possessions or financial stability Spiritual blessings in Christ are eternal and unshakeable God’s promises bring peace even in uncertain circumstances When we have God, we truly have more than enough Do you want to listen ad-free? When you join Crosswalk Plus, you gain access to exclusive, in-depth Bible study guides, devotionals, sound biblical advice, and daily encouragement from trusted pastors and authors—resources designed to strengthen your faith and equip you to live it out boldly. PLUS ad free podcasts! Sign Up Today! This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. If you are struggling with debt call Trinity today. Trinity's counselors have the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org TrinityCredit – Call us at 1-800-793-8548. Whether we're helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments. https://trinitycredit.org Full Transcript Below: More Than Enough By Cindi McMenamin Bible Reading:“You have put gladness in my heart,More than when their grain and new wine abound.” (Psalm 4:7 NASB) I remember the day we were driving home from a store, and my teenage daughter was complaining to me about all that she didn’t have—a new car like the one being driven by her 16-year-old friend who just got her driver’s license, expansive homes her friends lived in with more rooms than their families needed, the latest electronic gadgets, brand-name clothing, the highest-priced handbags. Weary of constantly being reminded of what we didn’t have that her friends’ families did, I finally blew! “Do you realize what we do have?” I snapped. “You have a roof over your head, and these days, that should be enough!” Apparently, my words struck a chord with her. Her face fell, and she sadly told me of another one of her friends who was losing her home due to her parents’ job loss. Immediately, my tone softened as I realized my daughter had already been convicted by her own words. We prayed for the family that was losing their hom,e and then I silently prayed for wisdom to turn that topic into a teaching moment. “You know, Sweetie,” I told her softly, as I continued to drive, “a lot of people around us are losing their homes. That’s why it’s important for us to not only think about what we have and be grateful for it, but to focus on what we have that we will never lose.” She looked at me, puzzled, for a moment. And then she got it. We immediately began to recount all that we have that can never be taken from us: The love we have for each other in our family The memories we’ve had in our three-bedroom condo (and the small two-bedroom home we owned prior to that) The unconditional love of God (Romans 5:8) The gift of our salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) A promised mansion in Eternity (John 14:2-3) I realized that day that my daughter is not the only one who often wishes she had more. It’s easy for me, at times, to look at what others have and be envious. It’s natural for me to sometimes wish I had a little more money to indulge in my desires. But so often I forget all I do have…and that it is more than enough. So often, we go through life looking at what others have and wondering when our ship will come in. Then we remember we have a God who owns the cattle on a thousand hills (Psalm 50:10), a God who has gone to prepare a place for us and who will come again and receive us to Himself so that where He is, we will be—forever (John 14:3). In Psalm 4, David begins his song by asking God for relief from his distress. But then he must have remembered what he had, because he finished his song with a perspective of joy: “You have put joy in my heart,More than when their grain and new wine are abundant.In peace I will both lie down and sleep,For You alone, Lord, have me dwell in safety” (verses 7-8). In The Message translation, verse 7 reads: “I have God’s more-than-enough, more joy in one ordinary day than they get in all their shopping sprees.” That sounds like a song I should be singing every day that I begin to forget my blessings and start longing for more. Intersecting Faith & Life: God is our true source of security in an insecure world…and He is the Only One who satisfies in a culture where we can never seem to get enough. When we have Him—along with His promises for provision, protection, and peace—we have “more than enough.” Can you draw strength from knowing that you have God’s more-than-enough, even if at times it doesn’t look like quite enough? Thank Him today for all that you have, as well as for the blessings that you don’t yet see. The Bible says if we belong to Christ, God has blessed us in the heavenly realm with every spiritual blessing in Christ (Ephesians 1:3). And if we “share in His sufferings” we are “heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ” (Romans 8:17). Joint heirs with God! Think about that. We are heirs of all that is His. Now that’s an inheritance. That’s a future. And that is more than enough. Further Reading:Ephesians 1:3-14 For a daily awareness of all you have in your relationship with Christ, see Cindi’s book, The New Loneliness Devotional: 50 Days to a Closer Connection with God. Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Hello Friends! I love to hear from you! Please send me a text message by clicking on this link! Blessings to You!In this episode, Dr. Jori discusses with her listeners  John the gospel writer's account of John the Baptist telling about how he originally did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah until GOD made it clear  and that he was the one who was sent to prepare the way for the Messiah.  Scripture References: John 1:31; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 1:1-31; Luke 1; Matthew 3:13-17; Mark 1:9-12; Luke 3:21-22Scripture translation used is the NASB “Scripture quotations taken from the NASB (New American Standard Bible) Copyright 1971, 1995, 2020 (only use the last year corresponding to the edition quoted) by The Lockman Foundation. Used by permission. All rights reserved. www.Lockman.org”CHECK OUT DR. JORI'S NEW PODCAST- The First Love ProjectHere is the video introducing the podcast on You Tube-https://youtu.be/PhFY1moDDms FIND DR. JORI ON OTHER PLATFORMS https://linktr.ee/drjorishafferCHECK OUT THE DWELL AUDIO BIBLE APP:Click this link for my unique referral code.  I use this frequently. Such a wonderful audio bible app. https://dwellapp.io/aff?ref=jorishafferBIBLE STUDY TOOLS DR. JORI USES:Note: These contain  Amazon affiliate links, meaning I get a commission, at no extra cost to you,  if you decide to make a purchase through my links.Here is a link to some of my favorite bible study tools on Amazon:https://geni.us/cHtrfEMr. Pen Bible Journaling Kitshttps://lvnta.com/lv_PTrHSCogbRim4yhEDnhttps://lvnta.com/lv_mkaMOuGe6m4oHR88uqhttps://lvnta.com/lv_dgvsxOc99t663A628z  BOOKS OF BIBLE COLOR CHARTI made this chart as a helpful tool for grouping the collections of books or letters  in the Holy Bible.  The colors in the different sections are the ones that I use in my journals.  Books of Bible Chart (color) (4).pdf - Google Drive    LOOKING TO RETAIN MORE OF WHAT YOUR PASTOR IS TEACHING?              CHECK OUT DR. JORI'S SERMON REFLECTION JOURNALS! Sermon Notes, Reflections and Applications Journal/Notebooks by Dr. Jori. Click the links below to be directed to amazon.com for purchase. Or search “Dr. Jori Shaffer” on Amazon to bring these up.  https://amzn.to/418LfRshttps://amzn.to/41862EyHere is a brief YouTube video that tells about the Journal/Notebooks as well:https://youtu.be/aXpQNYUEzds   Email: awordforthisday@gmail.comPodcast website:  https://awordforthisday.buzzsprout.com  Support the show

“Did the prophecies in Revelation happen?” This question opens a discussion on the interpretation of biblical prophecy, alongside inquiries about the connection between John 6 and the Last Supper, and the complexities surrounding salvation as discussed in Unam Sanctam. Additional topics include the Church’s historical actions regarding heretics and understanding love for God. Join the Catholic Answers Live Club Newsletter Invite our apologists to speak at your parish! Visit Catholicanswersspeakers.com Questions Covered: 02:28 – Did the prophecies in the book of Revelation already happen? 20:40 – Is there a way to establish that the John 6 discourse is related to the Last Supper? The Bible is a catholic book 28:50 – Alleged contradiction – Unam Sanctam has contradictory teachings about Salvation outside the church. I am confused about the explanation of martyrs in heaven? 36:24 – Why would the Church burn heretics when the bible says to let the wheat grow among the weeds 44:00 – How do you know if you love God? 49:39 – Can you give the Catholic explanation of these verses from Ephesians 2:8-10?

Teaching from Ephesians 5:15-23, Pastor Leitu shares how the sacrificial and unconditional love of Jesus is our example and source for a blessed marriage.Social MediaProphecy Website: http://jdfarag.orgMobile/TV Apps: https://subsplash.com/calvarychapelkaneohe/appChurch Website: http://www.calvarychapelkaneohe.comTwitter: https://twitter.com/JDFaragFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/JDFaragInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/JDFarag

“In whom also we have obtained an inheritance.” — Ephesians 1:11 When Jesus gave Himself for us, He gave us all the rights and privileges which went with Himself; so that now, although as eternal God, He has essential rights to which no creature may venture to pretend, yet as Jesus, the Mediator, the federal […]

What if you're already sitting on more blessings than you realize? After weeks of talking about sin and negative programming, Dr. Alex Lloyd and Harry bring the good news: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit have given you gifts that completely tidal wave your struggles. This isn't feel-good fluff—this is a comprehensive, scripture-backed catalog of what you actually receive from the Trinity. WHAT YOU'LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE: - The complete list of gifts from God the Father (presence, power, glory, light, love, grace, and more) - What Jesus specifically gives you that the Father doesn't (His way, truth, life, righteousness, peace) - The unique blessings only the Holy Spirit provides (comfort, perfect counsel, fruit of the Spirit, power) - Why you receive love, peace, and grace from all three—and why that matters - What "glory" actually means in Old vs. New Testament (Harry's word study insights) - Why guilt and shame DON'T come from God (even when you've sinned) - The experiential difference between natural living and living in these gifts - How Harry's life transformed over 2-3 years by intentionally pursuing these blessings KEY TOPICS COVERED: God's Presence Everywhere - Psalm 139: "Where can I go that you're not there?" Supernatural Power vs. Natural Strength - Ephesians 3 The "Weight" of God's Glory That Fills the Earth Miraculous Light That Cleanses and Heals The New Heart and New Spirit Promise - Ezekiel 36:26-27 Being Made a New Creation - 2 Corinthians 5:17 Seated with Christ in Heaven's Throne Room - Ephesians 2:6 Jesus as Both Your Judge AND Defense Attorney The Mind of Christ and Being His Bride His Righteousness Imputed to You (How God judges you righteous even when you remember sinning) Love Beyond Knowledge - Ephesians 3:17-19 Peace That Passes Understanding Holy Spirit's Perfect Counsel for Your Specific Moment Fruit of the Spirit: Love, Joy, Peace, Kindness, Goodness, Faith, Humility, Self-Control The Same Power That Raised Jesus From the Dead Working in You Life and Health to Your Mortal Body - Romans 8:11 Unlimited Forgiveness (70 times 7) Propitiation: Jesus Takes Your Place The All-Encompassing Grace of God POWERFUL QUOTES FROM THIS EPISODE: "Love is God in motion." - Harry Lloyd "Would you rather have unconditional love from one person or two or three? You're getting it from all three persons of the Trinity." - Dr. Alex Lloyd "The experiential difference between this and what you might call the natural way of living... it is amazing how the trend of my life has been consistently upwards in the ways that really matter most." - Harry Lloyd "Guilt and shame don't come from God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit—at least not if you're committed to them in your life." - Dr. Alex Lloyd WORD STUDY INSIGHTS (from Harry): Glory (Old Testament): Refers to a substance of glory Glory (New Testament): God's definition of what value is, how it's structured, where it comes from—the hierarchy behind every kind of value Light: The physical manifestation of God's glory or presence Love: "God in motion"—the mechanism that underlies everything Grace: Literally means "unearned favor" IMPORTANT CLARIFICATIONS: - This doesn't mean life becomes problem-free—there is no path without pain, suffering, and sin on this earth - God won't take away your free will, even at 99 years old - These gifts lead to "lesser and lesser" problems over time, not elimination - Based on God's will for your specific situation (He sometimes uses health problems as "bumper guards") - You shouldn't accept this on Dr. Alex and Harry's say-so—Harry seriously studied atheism and apologetics before committing PRACTICAL APPLICATION: Dr. Alex suggests focusing on what God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit DO rather than dwelling on sin, guilt, shame, and selfishness. Consider writing down these gift lists and reviewing them regularly to shift your focus from the negative to the abundant blessings you already have. REFERENCED SCRIPTURE: Psalm 139:7-10 | Isaiah 6:3 | Ephesians 3:20 | 2 Corinthians 12:9 | Ezekiel 36:26-27 | Jeremiah 17:9 | 2 Corinthians 5:17 | Ephesians 2:6 | John 14:6 | John 1:1, 4, 14 | 1 Corinthians 2:16 | Ephesians 5:31-32 | 2 Corinthians 5:21 | Ephesians 3:17-19 | John 14:27 | Philippians 4:7 | Matthew 28:18 | 1 John 2:1 | Hebrews 7:25 | John 14:16-17, 26 | John 16:13 | Galatians 5:22-23 | Romans 8:11 | Acts 1:8 | Isaiah 53:5 | 1 Peter 2:24 | Matthew 18:21-22 | 1 John 1:9 | 1 John 2:2 | Matthew 19:26 | Romans 6:16-18 | Revelation 1 and 4 REFERENCED BOOK: Hinds' Feet on High Places by Hannah Hurnard - "If you ever understand grace, Satan's just lost in your life. He can't beat grace."

Are you a shoo-in for heaven? Does your profession make you a good person? The Bible is very clear when it talks about the way to heaven, just read Ephesians chapter 2:8-10.

1/30/2026 | Today's evening devotional by C. H. Spurgeon on SermonAudio: Title: Spurgeon's Morning & Evening - Jan 30 PM Subtitle: Spurgeon's Daily Devotional Speaker: C. H. Spurgeon Broadcaster: Prince of Preachers Event: Audiobook Date: 1/30/2026 Bible: Ephesians 1:11 Length: 3 min.

To become a follower of Jesus, visit: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/MeetJesus (NOT a Morning Mindset resource) ⇒ Join the MMM Prayer Team: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/PrayerTeam ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ TODAY'S SCRIPTURE: Ephesians 4:17–24 - [17] Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. [18] They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. [19] They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. [20] But that is not the way you learned Christ!—[21] assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, [22] to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, [23] and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, [24] and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. (ESV) ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ FINANCIALLY SUPPORT THE MORNING MINDSET: (not tax-deductible) -- Become a monthly partner: https://mm-gfk-partners.supercast.com/ -- Support a daily episode: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/daily-sponsor/ -- Give one-time: https://give.cornerstone.cc/careygreen -- Venmo: @CareyNGreen ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ FOREIGN LANGUAGE VERSIONS OF THIS PODCAST: SPANISH version: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/Spanish HINDI version: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/Hindi CHINESE version: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/Chinese  ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ CONTACT: Carey@careygreen.com  ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ THEME MUSIC: “King’s Trailer” – Creative Commons 0 | Provided by https://freepd.com/ ***All NON-ENGLISH versions of the Morning Mindset are translated using A.I. Dubbing and Translation tools from DubFormer.ai ***All NON-ENGLISH text content (descriptions and titles) are translated using the A.I. functionality of Google Translate.

Recently, my mom gave me a play-by-play of a surprising confrontation she saw on a live webcam feed from a watering hole in Africa. The Gemsbok, a large antelope found in Namibia’s Namib Desert, has horns that can be more than two feet long making it a formidable animal that doesn’t seem to scare easily. That is unless it comes across a group of brave and rowdy ostriches. The lead ostrich, which was taller than its foes, shook its large feathers, roared, and stomped toward three Gemsbok, causing them to flee. “I guess they didn’t realize how powerful their horns are,” I said to my mom. Believers in Jesus can forget the power we have when faced with attacks from our spiritual enemy, Satan. We have the Holy Spirit who lives inside us (Romans 8:11) and the armor of God to help us: “Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes” (Ephesians 6:11). Satan wants to challenge our belief in God’s Word, question our identity in Christ and tempt us to sin. But we can stand strong because God’s armor includes: “the belt of truth, . . . the breastplate of righteousness, . . . the shield of faith, . . . the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God (vv. 14-17). When the enemy attacks us with feelings of fear, condemnation, or despair, let’s remember we are God’s children. He has given us His armor of truth, righteousness, peace, faith, salvation, His Word, and prayer to stand strong when we face spiritual battles.

Many wives have heard that men think about sex nearly all the time. But do they? We tackle this important question, because it influences what we think about men, sexuality, and challenges in our marriage. Sponsor Through story-centered counseling and coaching for individuals and couples, Aldrich Ministries helps you move beyond surface solutions into real healing and lasting change. Check them out! From the Bible Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. Romans 8:5 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Ephesians 4:22–24 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Philippians 4:8 Resources Sexual Morality by C.S. Lewis Doodle (BBC Talk 14) - reading and visual representation of Mere Christianity chapter that talks about sexual starvation or gluttony Study Debunks Stereotype That Men Think About Sex All Day Long Should You Be Reading My Blog? - Hot, Holy & Humorous Episode 104: How Often Should You Have Sex? How Often Do Men Think About The Roman Empire? A Lot, According To New TikTok Trend The Higher Desire Wife by J. Parker Masterclass: Sexual Desire Differences Thanks for joining us at the virtual kitchen table for another great chat! We'd love for you to join our inner circle by supporting us on Patreon. You can contribute to our wonderful ministry while getting some fun perks for yourself! Check it out here: https://patreon.com/ForChristianWives If you could, leave a rating and/or review so that others can find the show. Please also check out our website and webinars at forchristianwives.com. And visit our individual ministry pages for more resources as well: Strong Wives - Bonny Burns Honeycomb & Spice - Chris Taylor Hot, Holy & Humorous - J. Parker 

Our minds are not renewed automatically when we come to Christ. There are still old patterns of thinking that do not please God. But every day we have the choice to set our minds on things above. Will we allow the world to conform our minds, or will we invite God to transform our minds? Main Points:1. How do we do that? How do we set our minds on things above? Does that mean we go outside and look up at the sky? No, we must deliberately fill our minds with the things of God. We do this primarily by reading, listening, and meditating on the Word of God.2. As we read, hear, and think about the Scripture, our way of thinking is being transformed. We are being changed inwardly. This inner transformation leads to a change in our exterior behavior.3. The Holy Spirit is actively working in your life to make you more like Jesus. Be intentional about renewing your mind with the Word of God and your actions will be renewed as well.Today's Scripture Verses:Romans 12:2 - “Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”Ephesians 4:21-23 - “Since you have heard about Jesus and have learned the truth that comes from him, throw off your old sinful nature and your former way of life, which is corrupted by lust and deception. Instead, let the Spirit renew your thoughts and attitudes.”Colossians 3:2 - “Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.”Quick Links:Donate to support this podcastLeave a review on Apple PodcastsGet a copy of The 5 Minute Discipleship JournalConnect on SocialJoin The 5 Minute Discipleship Facebook Group

Garth Heckman The David Alliance TDAgiantSlayer@Gmail.com      A. Twelve disciples chosen and commissioned. 1. (Matthew 10:1-4) The twelve disciples are listed. And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him. a. When He had called His twelve disciples to Him: The main feature of this list is its diversity. Jesus chose His disciples from a variety of backgrounds and life experiences. About all they had in common was it seems that none of them were privileged or from backgrounds of high status. This is very much in the spirit of 1 Corinthians 1:26-29. b. He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease: Jesus did not only call the twelve; He also gave them power to do what He had called them to do. The same principle holds true today: whom God calls, God equips. The equipping may not be completely evident before the ministry begins, but it will be evident along the way. c. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: These twelve (excepting Judas, of course), have an important place in God's plan of redemption, including some particular role in the future judgment (Matthew 19:28), and in the founding of the church (Ephesians 2:20). The Bible promises that their position and work will be remembered through eternity (Revelation 21:14). i. This is the first and only time in Matthew that the twelve are called apostles. “The word apostle literally means one who is sent out; it is the word for an envoy or an ambassador.” (Barclay) “Called here for the first and last time apostoloi, with reference at once to the immediate minor mission and to the later great one.” (Bruce) The word apostle can mean a mere messenger, as in John 13:16, referring to he who is sent. Jesus is called an apostle in Hebrews 3:1: consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession. Paul sometimes used the word in the sense of messengers or representatives, as in 2 Corinthians 8:23: they are messengers [apostles] of the churches; possibly also in Romans 16:7. Yet Paul also used the term in a more narrow sense, referring to the Twelve and himself by special dispensation (1 Corinthians 9:1-5 and 15:7-10; Galatians 1:17 and 1:19 following).

Leading Into 2026: Executive Pastor Insights Momentum is real. So is the pressure. This free report draws from the largest dedicated survey of Executive Pastors ever, revealing what leaders are actually facing as they prepare for 2026. Why staff health is the #1 pressure point Where churches feel hopeful — and stretched thin What worked in 2025 and is worth repeating Clear decision filters for the year ahead Download the Full Report Free PDF • Built for Executive Pastors • Instant access Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re wrapping up our conversations with executive pastors from prevailing churches to unpack what leaders like you shared in the National Executive Pastor Survey. Today we're joined by Shayla McCormick, executive leader at Coastal Community Church in Florida. Coastal is a rapidly growing multisite church with three locations, consistently ranking among the fastest-growing churches in the country. Shayla serves alongside her husband and brings deep operational insight shaped by leading a large church with a remarkably lean staff. In this conversation, Shayla helps unpack one of the most pressing themes from the survey: how churches hire—and why so many find themselves hiring the same roles over and over again. She challenges leaders to rethink staffing through the lens of multiplication rather than pressure relief. Why churches keep hiring the same roles. // According to the survey, churches continue to prioritize familiar roles—especially NextGen and support positions—even as ministry contexts change. Shayla believes this pattern often comes from reactive hiring. When attendance grows, volunteers feel stretched, systems strain, and leaders feel pain. The quickest solution is to hire someone to relieve pressure. But Shayla cautions that hiring to relieve pain is different from hiring to build capacity. When churches skip the discernment step—asking what this season truly requires—they repeat the same staffing patterns without addressing root issues. Relieving pressure vs. building capacity. // Shayla draws a sharp distinction between doers and equippers. Doers add short-term relief by completing tasks, while equippers multiply long-term impact by developing others. Coastal intentionally prioritizes hiring equippers—even when that means living with short-term discomfort. Her leadership philosophy flows directly from Ephesians 4 – the role of leaders is to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. The courage to make the “big ask.” // Shayla challenges the assumption that busy or successful people won't serve. Too often, leaders say no for people before ever asking. At Coastal, high-capacity professionals—business owners, executives, retirees—serve in everything from parking to finance. The key is matching people's gifts with meaningful responsibility and inviting them with confidence. A radically lean staff model. // Coastal averages around 5,000 in weekly attendance with just 25 staff members, an unusually low ratio. This isn't accidental—it's strategic. Shayla explains that Coastal has built a high-capacity volunteer culture where unpaid leaders carry real responsibility. Staff members exist to equip and empower those leaders. This approach requires more upfront investment in training and coaching, but it produces sustainable growth without constant hiring. The risk of overstaffing. // Overstaffing creates more than financial strain. Shayla warns that it can lead to lazy culture, misaligned expectations, and long-term instability. Churches that staff heavily during growth seasons often face painful decisions when momentum slows. Without a strong culture of equipping, ministries become staff-dependent rather than leader-driven. Shayla encourages leaders to steward today with foresight—preparing for future seasons, not just current demand. When hiring is the right move. // While Coastal resists reactive hiring, Shayla is clear that hiring still matters. For example, Coastal recently decided to add staff in Kids Ministry—not because volunteers were failing, but because the kids pastor needed freedom to focus on strategy, family connection, and leader development. The new role removes task-based pressure while also serving as a developmental pipeline for future campus launches. The goal isn't to replace volunteers—it's to free equippers to multiply more leaders. Mission over position. // As Coastal grows, Shayla emphasizes a culture of mission over position. Roles evolve as the church evolves. Using metaphors like scaffolding and rotating tires, she reminds leaders that some roles exist for a season—and that rotation is necessary for long-term health. Leaders regularly ask: Who are you developing? Who's next? This mindset ensures the church can grow without being dependent on specific individuals. Starting points for stretched teams. // For leaders feeling perpetually tired despite added staff, Shayla offers simple coaching: eliminate work God never asked you to do, clarify expectations, and require every leader to develop others. Growth doesn't come from adding people—it comes from multiplying leaders. To learn more about Coastal Community Church, visit coastalcommunity.tv or follow @coastalchurch on Instagram. You can also connect with Shayla at @shaylamccormick. Watch the full episode below: Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: TouchPoint As your church reaches more people, one of the biggest challenges is making sure no one slips through the cracks along the way.TouchPoint Church Management Software is an all-in-one ecosystem built for churches that want to elevate discipleship by providing clear data, strong engagement tools, and dependable workflows that scale as you grow. TouchPoint is trusted by some of the fastest-growing and largest churches in the country because it helps teams stay aligned, understand who they're reaching, and make confident ministry decisions week after week. If you've been wondering whether your current system can carry your next season of growth, it may be time to explore what TouchPoint can do for you. You can evaluate TouchPoint during a free, no-pressure one-hour demo at TouchPointSoftware.com/demo. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. We are in the middle of these special episodes—I’ve been loving these—around really responding to your survey. We did a National Executive Pastor Survey. It’s the largest survey I can say that I’m aware of, of this, where we get out and talk to executive pastors across the country and really ask them, how’s it going in their church? What are they feeling? What are they learning? To really take a litmus test of where things are at. Rich Birch — And then what we’re doing is pulling in some incredible… leaders to help you wrestle through with some of the findings. And I’m excited, privileged, really, to have Shayla McCormick with us today. She’s with an incredible church called Coastal Community Church, a multi-site church with, if I’m counting correctly, three locations in Florida. It started in September 2009, not that long ago, and they’ve repeatedly been one of the fastest growing churches in the country. She serves with her husband at this church, and this is an incredible church. You should be following along with Shayla and with the church. Welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Shayla McCormick — Thank you so much, Rich. I’m glad to be back and excited just to, you know, share with everybody just some insights and things that that I’ve learned along the way too.Rich Birch — Nice. This is yeah super fun to have you on again. And you should go back and listen to back episode that Shayla was on was one of our best of last year. Super helpful. So you’re going to want to lean in on that.Rich Birch — Now, when I saw some of the results from the survey, friends, I’m letting you behind the curtain. We looked at a couple different you know things and I sent them out to these friends and I said, hey, you pick whichever one you want. And I was really hoping that you would pick this one because I really think that you’ve got just so much to offer to this. So let’s, I’m going to unpack this a little bit. Shayla McCormick — Yeah.Rich Birch — So one of the questions we asked was, ah you know, there’s all these different roles that people are hiring. And for years, in fact, I actually thought about maybe not doing this question this year, because basically the order is pretty similar that people come back every year. But what we’ve seen from 2023 to 2024 is that particularly support roles, this idea of support roles that churches are out looking for those has grown significantly, 12 percentage points in those three years. Other roles like NextGen remain consistently at the top. You know, Outreach ranks the lowest at like 9 to 12 percent, which breaks my heart as a former outreach pastor. I was like, ah, people are not thinking about those things. Rich Birch — So today what I want to do is unpack this idea around what are who are we hiring for? What difference does it make? We know as an executive pastor listening in, I know that many of you are are kicking off this year thinking about, hmm, who should we be hiring? What should that look like? And really this tension that we all face with you know, being understaffed and overstaffed. How does all that work together? So I’m really looking forward to having your input on it.Rich Birch — Why do you think churches continue to hire for essentially the same roles as we see year in, year out, Shayla, why do we see that? Even as ministry changes, it’s like we find ourselves having the same conversation. Where are the kids ministry people? Where are the support roles people? Shayla McCormick — Yeah. Rich Birch — Why do we find ourselves in these same conversations?Shayla McCormick — Yeah, honestly, I think a lot of times as church leaders, like we repeat roles because we haven’t we haven’t really honestly just kind of stopped long enough to really go, what does this season actually require? Rich Birch — That’s good.Shayla McCormick — I think a lot of times what we do is we hire to almost relieve pressure but not really build capacity. And so I think we repeat roles because like kids ministry, right? That’s always a place where you have growth, you have kids, you have to staff a lot of volunteers. It’s a lot of administrative work. And, you know, sometimes I think we can tend to go, Hey, I want to relieve pressure on this. And so we end up trying to to put somebody in a seat and then we end up over hiring. And a lot of, a lot of us hire when it hurts, right? When, okay, attendance is growing, volunteers are tired, systems are breaking, A leader is overwhelmed.Shayla McCormick — And we end up, I think, making these desperation hires rather than hiring to actually build capacity… Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good. That’s good. Shayla McCormick — …so that we can continue to grow. And so I think a lot of times our mindset kind of subtly shifts from, I mean, Ephesians 4, right? You equip the saints for the work of the ministry. And it sometimes our mindset shifts from equipping the saints to to almost replacing the staff role or the saints role with a staff member.Shayla McCormick — And it can tend to just, you can be overstaffed. And then that puts pressure financially and all, you know, like so much, but we just continue to repeat the process. Because again, we hired to relieve pressure instead of build capacity and we’re not really sitting… Rich Birch — Yeah, I would love to unpack that. Shayla McCormick — Yeah. Rich Birch — I think there’s so much there. So how are you discerning or how, you know, if a church calls you up and is asking you discern really between those two, like, Hey, I’ve got maybe I’ve got an operational problem. I’m trying to relieve pressure using the language you do. You were saying versus like building capacity for the future, which inherently sounds like to me, if I’m choosing to build capacity, I’m going to live with some pain in the short term is what I hear in that. Help me discern what that, what that looks like. How how do you work that out at, you know, at, at Coastal?Shayla McCormick — Yeah, I think we we are always looking for equippers, for multipliers. We ask the question very consistently, is this a doer or is this a leader? And not that doers are bad. Doers can actually, they can help you add capacity because it relieves the stress or the pain on a leader, right? Because you have somebody doing stuff, but equipers actually, they multiply. And so when I’m a growing church, if I continue to hire doers, then I’m just like, I’m solving a temporary so solution essentially, or a temporary problem, because at some point those things are going to go away.Rich Birch — Right.Shayla McCormick — But what, what the approach that we’ve taken is the Ephesians 4, you know, you equip the saints for the work of the ministries. And I think a lot of, lot of the times we actually neglect almost our volunteer base. And we lean heavily on our volunteers, our, We average probably 5,000 in weekend attendance, and we have about 25 staff members. And that is not a lot of staff for…Rich Birch — That’s insane. That to me, that is… Friends, I hope you heard that. So that’s like one to 200 or something like that. It’s it’s that’s all it’s Shayla McCormick — I don’t even know. It’s low.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s very low. It’s very low. Yes.Shayla McCormick — But we have a very, very, very high value in equipping our volunteers. Because there are people in our church that want to, they want to do. Rich Birch — Right. Shayla McCormick — They might be the doers that can help build capacity in a way that can help lift responsibility off people. We have people that come in that like, they’re like on staff, but they don’t get paid just because they want to come and they want to serve. Rich Birch — Yes.Shayla McCormick — And a lot of times I think we actually, say no for people because, oh, I don’t want to ask somebody to do another thing. But they’re like begging, use my gifts, use my talents. But we’re saying no for them. And then we’re going and hiring for these positions when it’s something that we could actually give away…Rich Birch — Yes, yes. Shayla McCormick — …and equip the saints for the work of the ministry. Rich Birch — Yes.Shayla McCormick — And for instance, in our kids’ ministry, we average at one of our locations probably about between 500 and 600 kids on the weekend. And I have one full-time staff member for that position right now.Rich Birch — Wow. Wow. Yeah.Shayla McCormick — And now we are getting ready to hire an additional person. But she has done a phenomenal job at building high-capacity leaders that are volunteers… Rich Birch — That’s good. Shayla McCormick — …that want to give their time and their energy and their resources and their passion. But I think for so many churches, we just we say no for people… Rich Birch — Yeah, 100%. Shayla McCormick — …and then we end up hiring something that we could give away in a volunteer capacity. Now that is harder on us… Rich Birch — Right. Shayla McCormick — …because you have to you know you have to teach and equip and you know pick things up, but…Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s it’s longer term. It’s it’s not it’s not a quick and easy. Shayla McCormick — Right. Rich Birch — So I want to come back to the big ask in a second. Shayla McCormick — Okay. Rich Birch — But I want I want to play a bit of the devil’s advocate. Shayla McCormick — Yes. Rich Birch — So I was having this conversation with a church leader recently, and we were looking at their staff, like their just total staffing. And we were actually having this conversation between, I was asking them like, hey, what how many of these people would you say are Ephesians 4 type people, equippers, people who are… Shayla McCormick — Yeah. Rich Birch — And then how many of these would be doers? Because every staff team has some doers on it. Like you have some percentage of them.Shayla McCormick — Yes, 100%.Rich Birch — When you, shooting from the hip of those 25, what do you think your ratio is on your team of equippers to doers? Because this is what this leader said to me. They were like, because I was kind of pushing them. I was like, I think you need to have less of these doers on your team. Like we’ve got to, we got to get not, I said, we’d have to get rid of them, but we got to grow some of these leaders up to become more multipliers.Shayla McCormick — Yep.Rich Birch — And they were like, well, but those people, they release my multiplying type people to do the work that they need to do. And I was like, yes, but if we don’t watch this ratio very quickly, we’ll we’ll end up with a bunch of doers on our team. So what would the ratio look like for you on your team? How do you think about those issues? Unpack that for me.Shayla McCormick — Yeah, I would I would say it’s maybe like a, I would say it’s maybe 10% that are, that are…Rich Birch — Right. Wow. Yeah. A couple, two or three, maybe four at the most kind of thing.Shayla McCormick — Yes, exactly, that are that are not the ones that I’m expecting. And even even them, I expect to go out and multiply as well. It’s it’s it’s part of our part of our conversations.Rich Birch — Yeah.Shayla McCormick — But it’s a very low percentage because for me, it again, it goes back to, those are things that I can equip other people to do… Rich Birch — Yes. Shayla McCormick — …that I can give ministry away. And…Rich Birch — Okay. So yeah, let’s talk about the big ask. Shayla McCormick — Okay. Rich Birch — So I hear this all the time from church leaders across the country and they’ll this is, this is how the conversation goes. They’re like, yeah, yeah. But you don’t know, like people in our part of the country, they’re very busy. Shayla McCormick — Yeah.Rich Birch — And like the people at our church, they’re kind of like a big deal. And like, they got a lot going on in their life. And like, This is true. You guys are in like the greater Fort Lauderdale area. This is a very, you are not like some backwoods, you know, place and you’re doing the big ask.Rich Birch — You’re saying, hey, you used it, which is you said like, hey, basically we’re saying, could you work part time for us in this area?Shayla McCormick — Yeah.Rich Birch — Have a huge amount of responsibility. How do you keep the big ask in front of people? How, how what’s that look like? Unpack that for us.Shayla McCormick — I mean, something that we talk about on our staff very frequently is, because it’s so natural to say, oh, they’re too busy, especially high capacity people. What I’ve what I’ve realized is is just a side note, but like, single moms are the most high-capacity people. They are the busiest people juggling the most things. But there are best people to come in and serve and do and all of that.Rich Birch — Right.Shayla McCormick — But they’re busy. Rich Birch — Right. Shayla McCormick — And so just because someone seems busy or successful or, you know, whatever barrier that you put in your brain, like, I think the reality is is we say no for them before we even ask.Rich Birch — 100%. 100%.Shayla McCormick — And so the conversations on our team always look like, are you saying no for them? Make the ask anyways. And a lot of times they’re like, oh my gosh, they said yes. I mean, I have people that run million, billion dollar companies serving in my parking team. You know, it’s like…Rich Birch — Right.Shayla McCormick — It’s, yeah, I mean, I you have people that are retired, very successful, business leaders that are coming in and volunteering to you know do finance things. Like it’s finding what are what are they great at and giving them purpose in it.Rich Birch — Yes, yes.Shayla McCormick — And not just saying no for them because I think they’re successful or they’re too busy.Rich Birch — How much of that is, because I would totally agree, how much of that is like, like what I hear you saying, it’s like a mindset issue for us as leaders. Shayla McCormick — Yes. Rich Birch — Like, hey, we can’t, even when we ask someone, we can say no before them in that question, right? We can be like, I don’t know if you could, well, you know, you’re real busy and I’m not sure blah blah, blah. And that kind of lets them off the hook before we even. So part of it is a mindset, but then part of it has to be like a structural thing, the way you’re structuring the roles. How do those two interact with each other?Shayla McCormick — Ask the question one more time.Rich Birch — So part of it is like our mindset are the, the, when we approach people, we’re asking them in a way that, you know, is casting vision for like, Hey, this is a huge opportunity to push the kingdom forward. But then also a part of it, I would assume is like the way we’re structuring the roles so that it it feels like, no, like we’re, we’re kind of, it is a big ask. Like, it’s like, we’re giving them enough responsibility and all that sort of thing. How do those interact with each other when you’re asking someone, when you’re making a big ask like that?Shayla McCormick — I mean, I think most of what I’m talking, what I’m referring to is a little bit more in the the doer space or the operational space.Rich Birch — Yep. Yep. Okay, good. Yep.Shayla McCormick — So it’s structuring things based on almost task or, you know, responsibility that can be repeated consistently and come in and just, you know, like get it done, so that I don’t have to, again, go back to hiring somebody to do these tasks to take this off of this staff member’s plate to increase their capacity. I’m basically giving those tasks and responsibilities to a volunteer. And I think a lot of times what’s scary to me is people, us, you know, churches, their first response to problem in every situation is to hire. Rich Birch — Yeah, right.Shayla McCormick — And I think if that’s your first response, you’re going to get in, trouble you’re going to get in big trouble.Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah.Shayla McCormick — And you’re going end up overstaffed because you, you staffed in seasons where attendance was growing or something again, to relieve that pressure…Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah, that’s good.Shayla McCormick — …not thinking multiplication. And if every solution is to hire, I don’t think the church has a staffing problem. actually think they probably have a discipleship problem. And like…Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good. That’s good. Shayla McCormick — …and an equipping problem because the goal is to multiply apply leaders faster so that your church grows.Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, that’s good.Shayla McCormick — And so if we’re not thinking multiplication and equipping, then you know I think we’re gonna get to a place where, again, we’re we’re overstaffing and we’re hiring for the same things because we haven’t learned to equip and empower and train up.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Let’s double click on that. Shayla McCormick — Yeah.Rich Birch — What risks? So overstaffing, why is that a risk? What’s the there’s obviously a financial risk there. Are there other risks that you see there that emerge when a church consistently staffs for doers or execution rather than you know invest in you know equipping and raising up the people in their church? What will be some other risks you see in that?Shayla McCormick — Yeah, I think if you’re, if you, I’m trying to figure out how to frame this. If you’re not thinking multiplication, you’re going to, you’re going to hit a point in your church where like everything isn’t always up and to the right.Rich Birch — Right. Yes. True.Shayla McCormick — And so it’s not that I’m planning for failure or the difficulty, but I’m also trying to steward what has been entrusted to me, and some of that requires foresight and wisdom… Rich Birch — Yep. Shayla McCormick — …even in my planning and my budgeting. And so if one season I’m staffing something in growth, the next season might not look the same. And I’ve because I haven’t diligently given, again, Ephesians 4, given ministry away, my role, pastor’s roles, you know, like, is to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. Rich Birch — Yep.Shayla McCormick — And if I haven’t done those things properly, then I think I’m going to get a hit a season where then I’m letting staff go. Rich Birch — Right.Shayla McCormick — And, you know, or honestly, culture has become lazy because everybody doesn’t have enough to to do. And so there’s tensions and frustrations and, you know, like, and it starts you start to get a culture, I think, where you say, well, we’ll just hire for that. We’ll just hire for that. We’ll just hire for that. Instead of, okay, who’s next? Are you always developing? Like, what volunteer have you asked to do that? Have you given ministry away? And start asking our staff questions. If they’re coming to you and saying, hey, i need ah I need this role and I need this role and I need this role, the question back should be, well, who have you been developing?Rich Birch — Right.Shayla McCormick — You know, what ministry have you given away? Some of those things that just kind of push back on the solution is not always to hire somebody. Rich Birch — Right. Shayla McCormick — But what responsibility have you taken in development of people?Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. in the In the kids ministry area, you had referenced this earlier, you know, a campus with 500 kids and one staff, which again is is, I know there’s lots of executive pastors that are listening in that are like, what? That’s crazy. But you are, ah you have decided to add a staff member there. What was it that kind of clicked over to say, okay, yeah, we are going to add someone. And and what are what is that role that you’re adding? And how do you continue to ensure that we’re, you know, that we keep this focus as we look to the future?Shayla McCormick — For us, my kid’s pastor is obviously very high capacity, you know, and she is a multiplier. And her greatest use of her time for me is connecting with those families, is creating opportunities for them to connect, and hiring another person is going to free her up to connect more with families on the weekends, and to spend more of her time being strategic.Shayla McCormick — And so she needs to duplicate another her on the weekends that can make sure they’re facilitating volunteers and they’re making sure people are encouraged and that teams are built and that people are showing up and schedules are being done. And it’s it’s high people, but it’s also task and responsibility that comes off of her plate that frees her up to um do the thing that she’s great at.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s fantastic.Shayla McCormick — And obviously, she’s given all that stuff away in this season, but now we’re also using that as a developmental role to potentially be a kids director at another location when we launch a location.Rich Birch — Right. Yeah. There will be more, hopefully more coastal locations in the future… Shayla McCormick — Yes. Rich Birch — …and you need to you know raise those people up now you have the ability to do that. This is one way, you know, to do that as well.Shayla McCormick — Yep. Yep. Right.Rich Birch — So put yourself in a, a, say a friend calls executive pastor calls and they’re in this kind of this topic. They feel like, man, my team is perpetually stretched.Rich Birch — We, we added a bunch of staff last year and, it just didn’t help. You know, it’s like we find it sure we’re starting out the new year here and our headcount is up, but people are as tired. They’re as burnt out as they’ve ever been. And it feels disproportionate. It feels like, oh, man, like I don’t this things are not getting better. What are they missing? What what are what’s the how would you coach them? Maybe some first steps that you would kind of help them to think about what they should be doing on this front.Shayla McCormick — So I think maybe first and foremost, I might ask what what work are you doing that really God never asked you to do, first of all? I think we, we, add a lot of things that aren’t probably the best use of people’s times. And so where have we added things that we didn’t need to add that aren’t adding value… Rich Birch — That’s good. Shayla McCormick — …that can, number one, lift something off of our team that maybe they don’t just, you know, doesn’t add value. Rich Birch — That’s good.Shayla McCormick — And so that would probably be one of the first places I would start. It was like what are what are you working on that God hasn’t asked you to do?Rich Birch — Yeah, what can we streamline? What do we need to pull back? Yeah, yeah.Shayla McCormick — Exactly. And then…Rich Birch — That’s good.Shayla McCormick — …secondarily, I think I would really focus on leaning into, and this is what we’ve done in in many seasons, is we’ve leaned into two things. Number one is starting to ask our team, like, hey, who’s who’s around you that you’re developing? I need you to pick three people, you know, and just start pouring into them. I know this this isn’t a, I know this doesn’t lift the load, necessarily in the moment, but I think it can help lift it for the future. So it’s like, hey, how am I teaching my staff to look for other leaders and developing those leaders? And the other question just went away from my mind.Rich Birch — Well, that’s a great one, though. This even it’s the idea of who are the two or three people that you’re developing, that’s a powerful idea. Because I think there’s think particularly if you’re a church that’s caught in this treadmill, um there probably are people in your orbit. There are there are volunteers that would be looking for more to do to look. But but oftentimes our team, we just they don’t see those people. They don’t because we haven’t challenged them to see those people.Shayla McCormick — It’s it’s it’s honestly a question that’s a regular part of all of our teams one-on-ones… Rich Birch — That’s cool. Shayla McCormick — …that one of the questions is, who’s next? Like you should always be replacing yourself. Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. Who’s next? Yeah, that’s good.Shayla McCormick — And that is just a continual pipeline of people and it’s teaching them to see other people and develop people. And they know that when I come to this meeting with my leader, I need to be telling them what I did, who I’m investing in, you know, what that looks like. So that there’s like a pipeline of leadership.Shayla McCormick — And I even, like with with my own assistant, I’ll say this, she’s like, Shayla, how do I do that? It’s like I’m, she’s right, a doer, you know, she’s my assistant. But I said, honestly, the the way that there’s so much that you can give away, you can build volunteer teams to execute gift baskets when a, you know… Rich Birch — Yep. Shayla McCormick — Like there are things that we just have to teach people to start giving away… Rich Birch — Right. Shayla McCormick — …and equipping other people to do.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good.Shayla McCormick — And I think it’s why I don’t I don’t use like being a large church with a small staff as like a bragging thing because I I don’t think that that’s necessarily healthy long term.Rich Birch — Yes. Shayla McCormick — But I think that it’s very strategic in how we have built a volunteer culture that is very high capacity and shows up and gets it done because we simply just haven’t said no… Rich Birch — Yep. Shayla McCormick — …and we’ve always looked for somebody else to come up underneath us.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. I know for for me in seasons when I led in fast-growing churches… Shayla McCormick — Yeah. Rich Birch — …churches that were deemed as some of the fastest growing churches in the country, I would say to my… Now, I sat in a different seat than you were because I was never like a founding team member. Well, that’s not actually not true. That’s not actually not true. I was in one church. But but I always tried to hold my role with open hands, even with my team. Shayla McCormick — Yes. Rich Birch — I would say, listen, the the people that I don’t I don’t want to get in the way of the mission, the mission is bigger than my job and my role.Shayla McCormick — Yes.Rich Birch — And there might come a season when the ministry will outpace me and I need to be willing to step aside.Shayla McCormick — Yep. Yes.Rich Birch — And that whenever I said that, there was always like, it freaked people out a little bit. They were like, oh my goodness, what are you saying? What are you saying? But I do think that those people that got us here may not necessarily be those people that will get us there. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that. And and this does not apply to any of the 25 people currently employed at Coastal Church, but help us understand…Shayla McCormick — Hey, we’ve had this conversation with all of them, so it could apply to them.Rich Birch — Oh good. Okay. Okay, good. I Okay, good. I didn’t want to you know have people listen to it at your church and be like, oh my goodness. But help me understand how you think about that as a leader, because I think that’s a real dynamic in this area.Shayla McCormick — Yeah, there’s there’s two two things, two almost analogies that that I’ll give you. One was when we were a smaller church, we were a growing church, we were a church plant, and somebody gave us some some great advice. And they said, listen, the people you start with are not going to be the people you finish with, and that’s not a bad thing. That that happens. Rich Birch — Yep.Shayla McCormick — And they said, when you are building something, there’s a phase of that building that requires scaffolding. Rich Birch — Yep. Shayla McCormick — And scaffolding serves a purpose in that season to build the structure and the walls and and all of the things, but there is a point where that scaffolding has to come down… Rich Birch — Yeah. Shayla McCormick — …in order for you to utilize that building or that space effectively. Rich Birch — Yep. Shayla McCormick — And I think sometimes that’s people in a way. Like they serve a purpose for a season, but it’s not like, it’s not like oh, now they can’t serve in any capacity or any way. It’s just that the role that they played for that season was very important. But it looks different in the next season. And we have to be okay with that if we want to continue to grow.Shayla McCormick — As we’ve grown, there was actually people probably know the name Charlotte Gambill. Charlotte Gambill has invested a lot in our team and in in our church. And she came in and did a ah session with us. And one of the things that she talked with us about is like, if you think about a a vehicle, right? And that vehicle is there to get you to the destination of where you’re going. And that vehicle has tires. And those tires have to be rotated.Rich Birch — Right, oh, that’s good.Shayla McCormick — And as a team member, you are like a tire. And what you are doing is getting that vehicle to the proper destination. But if you don’t allow yourself to be rotated, then there’s going to be a problem in getting that vehicle to the location. Rich Birch — That’s good.Shayla McCormick — And so language that we use is this is mission over position. Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good.Shayla McCormick — And your position may change. Your position may rotate. But this is not about your position, this is about your mission. And if you’re not here because of the mission, then you’re gonna be fixated on your position.Shayla McCormick — And so our team knows that. We we talk about that very frequently, like, hey, remember this is mission over position. And we’re gonna we’re gonna rotate the tire today.Rich Birch — Yep.Shayla McCormick — But this is because this is for the mission, not because of your position. Rich Birch — Yeah.Shayla McCormick — And so we just consistently have those conversations. And if we if we don’t rotate those things, And if there’s something that’s worn out and we don’t change it, it’s going to affect the mission of where that organization is going.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so true.Shayla McCormick — Yeah.Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s, that’s worth the price of admission right there. I think, you know, I think so many of us, um you know, people who are listening in their church leaders, they love people. They want to see them take steps towards Jesus. And, you know, we hold onto people too long or we, or we, you know, we always believe the best. We’re like, no, they’re going to get there. They’re going to get there.Rich Birch — But what would you say to a leader? You know, Give us some courage to say, hey, maybe there’s a team member we need to rotate, either find a different seat on the bus, or it might be we we need to move them off this year. Like we need to get them on a performance improvement plan and do the like, hey, you’re not leaving today, but it’s like, this has got a change. You’ve got a shift from being a doer to being an equipper. And we’re going to work on this for the next three months. But we need to see, we actually actually need to see progress on this. Give us some courage to do that. Talk us through that. If that’s the if that’s the leader that’s listening in today.Shayla McCormick — I mean, I think first of all, if you’re sensing that and you’re feeling that, you need to start having some very honest conversations. I think Proverbs is very clear when it says, bind mercy and truth around your neck. Like, we can have those truthful conversations while still being merciful. And, you know, if if you’re not clear with people, then there’s just, then there’s there’s going to be hurt, there’s going to be bitterness, there’s going to be all of those things. And so if you can just even start the conversation, if you’ve been frustrated for a long time but you haven’t said anything, honestly, it’s your fault. Rich Birch — Right. Yes. Shayla McCormick — Because you’ve allowed it for so long. Rich Birch — Right. Shayla McCormick — And now that’s that’s you’ve allowed behavior to continue. So the first step I think is just giving yourself freedom to have a mercy and truth conversation, right? Of just going, hey, like I know your your heart is here I know you have vision for this organization, but there’s just some things that need to adjust. Rich Birch — Right.Shayla McCormick — And so we’re going to bring some clarity to those things that need to adjust.Rich Birch — That’s good.Shayla McCormick — And you have those conversations and then, hey, let’s check in a month from now and just here’s some action steps for you to do. And it just gives framework for like, okay, now if they’re not doing those things, you’re just like, you know, hey, do you, we asked the question, do you get it? Do you want it? And do you have the capacity to do it? Rich Birch — That’s good.Shayla McCormick — If they have, if they get it and they want it, but they don’t have the capacity, they have to change their seat, you know.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Shayla McCormick — And so for me, I think it’s really starting off with the clarifying conversation… Rich Birch — Yeah. Shayla McCormick — …if you haven’t had that. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Shayla McCormick — And in that clarifying conversation leads to either an off-ramp or an adjustment of seat.Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah, that’s so good. I know that there are people who are listening in who that you know, like, hey, I’ve got to make a change. I have this staff member, team member that’s got to make a change. We can’t do this for another year. And even that idea of sitting down, having a you know, a truthful, but merciful conversation and doing exactly what Shayla said there. Let’s have the conversation and then document it. Shayla McCormick — Yes.Rich Birch — Here’s exactly what we talked about. Here are the three or four things that we need to see progress in the next month on. And we love you dearly, but in a month, we’re going to come back and actually ask you on that. My experience has been when you have that…Shayla McCormick — And even…Rich Birch — Yeah, go ahead.Shayla McCormick — …even asking at the end of that, like, hey, do you have any questions? Or even repeat back to me what you heard… Rich Birch — Right. Shayla McCormick — …because I want to understand how you’re receiving the information that I just gave you, because it can help you even go a little bit deeper in shaping that.Rich Birch — Clarify it. Yeah, that’s so good. Well, this has been a great conversation. Question that’s not really, it’s just kind of a broader question… Shayla McCormick — OK. Rich Birch — …about this coming year. What are the what are the questions that are kicking around in your head for this year as you look to 2026 as we come to kind of close today’s episode? What are you thinking about? Might be around this. It might be around other stuff. What are you thinking about this year?Shayla McCormick — Ooh, I was actually talking to my husband about this. We’re getting ready to go into a leadership team meeting, and the thing that’s just been sitting in my head, and this is so probably counterintuitive to large church, but it’s how can I grow smaller?Rich Birch — That’s good.Shayla McCormick — And so I’m just trying to think how can we be more intentional as we grow to make a large church feel small? And then I’m also thinking, are we building a church that can grow without us? So how, you know, is it only because of us that things are happening? Or how are we, again, ah equipping people that if we weren’t here, it would continue on? Rich Birch — I love that.Shayla McCormick — So how do I grow smaller? And would this survive without us?Rich Birch — Wow, those are two super profound questions. And they are so totally related to what we’re talking about today. Both of those, you’re only going to get to it feeling smaller. You know, that is that is the great irony of a growing church. I’ve said that to many. I didn’t I wasn’t as eloquent as you were there, but one of the, the interesting kind of tensions is when you become a church of 5,000, 10,000, 15,000, you get around those circles. Those churches are asking the, how do we be more intimate? How do we, um you know, we, okay. So we figured out how to gather crowds and, but how do we go beyond that? Right. How do we, how do we now, you know, really drive into deeper, more intimate conversations? I love that. And yes.Shayla McCormick — Systems just complicate things. Rich Birch — Yes. Shayla McCormick — So it’s like, how do you how do you simplify? I really appreciate you, appreciate your leadership and all that you’re doing and how you helped us today. And if people want to track with you or with the church, where do we want to send them online?Shayla McCormick — Yeah, they can follow our church on Instagram. It’s at Coastal Church or visit our website, coastalcommunity.tv. I’m not super active on Instagram, but you can follow me if you want to @shaylamccormick.Rich Birch — That’s great. Shayla, I really appreciate you being here today. And thanks so much for helping us out as we kick off 2026.Shayla McCormick — Of course. Thanks so much, Rich.

What does it look like to find unity, identity, and hope in the middle of uncertainty and change? In this episode of Seek Go Create, Tim Winders takes us into the powerful letter of Ephesians—written by Paul from prison—to reveal the big-picture vision of who we are in Christ and how we can live it out, even in difficult times. You'll get historical context, key themes, and a vivid sense of what the first church communities heard when this letter arrived. If you're ready to see Ephesians in a whole new light and discover how ancient wisdom meets our present moment, this episode is for you."Ephesians lifts our eyes to who we are in Christ, then shows us how to walk." - Tim WindersAccess all show and episode resources HEREEpisode Resources:NT90 Hub – This is the central website for the 90-day New Testament reading plan, with downloadable, printable plans, background information, and links to all episodes and resources.Episode Highlights:00:00 Introduction to Seek Go Create00:55 Overview of Ephesians01:35 Historical Context and Setting02:02 Paul's Imprisonment and Writing05:28 Themes and Key Messages in Ephesians07:41 Reading and Reflecting on Ephesians07:51 Preview of Colossians08:13 Final Thoughts and Community Engagement08:55 Setting the Scene for Ephesians

Special guest Maureen Carrott recalls the impression the book The Hiding Place had on her as a 13-year-old girl. Corrie Ten Boom, the author, was imprisoned in a concentration camp alongside her sister Betsie. Betsie suggested they give thanks to God for the fleas that nipped painfully at their skin. Other stories, like the biblical story of Joseph, also instilled within Maureen that gratitude should transcend circumstances. As this episode is airing, wife, mother, grandmother, friend to many around the world, and missionary Maureen went home to be with the Lord on December 16, 2025. She began Crown of Beauty ministry with Sue Corl in 2005 in East Asia. They served together for seven years, and then several mission trips afterward. From the beginning, Maureen insisted that we offer one-on-one or small group prayer counseling at each conference. Most say that this is the highlight of each conference. Her honest, Christ-centered, vulnerable, joyful spirit and love for everyone we served brought healing to women wherever she went. Sue could not have pioneered this ministry without her. As Sue's best friend, their ministry to the Chinese, Thai Karen, Lebanese, English, and Ugandan women was truly one of the most rewarding and enjoyable experiences of their lives. Though Maureen left us earlier than any of us would have wanted, we know that her infectious laughter, deep worship and love of God, and deep connection with people is blessing those who have gone before us! Ephesians 5:20: "Always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ". This episode is dedicated to the memory of Maureen Carrott. SUPPORT His Heartbeat through Crown of Beauty Internationalhttps://www.crownofbeautyinternational.com/donateCONNECT with His Heartbeat and Crown of Beauty InternationalWebsite// Facebook//InstagramEmail: crownofbeautyinternational@gmail.comConnect with Sue Corl's Instagram//Facebook// WebsitePurchase Sue's Transformational Bible Studies and Devotionals on Amazon!Sue Corl's best-selling books: Crown of Beauty Bible Study, Broken But UndefeatedCrown of Beauty International: EMPOWERING WOMEN AROUND THE WORLD WITH GOD'S TRUTH!

In this episode, Pastor Cindy talks about living in the fullness of Christ. In the Old Testament, the presence of God was confined to the tabernacle. It had walls and boundaries and only a select people could even handle being in the full presence. The Holy Spirit hadn't been poured out for everyone to receive. But now, in this new covenant, we have been given the Holy Spirit. He now dwells in us. We are the walking tabernacles that host the presence of God. It's important for us to understand the power and authority we carry.  Scripture reference: Ephesians 4:11-13,  Hebrews 10:24-25, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Romans 8:9-11, 1 Corinthians 4:1-2, John 10:27-28, Colossians 1:27, Deut 29:29, 1 Corinthians 2, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4, Romans 12, Galatians 4, 2 Corinthians 3:17-18, Ephesians 3:14, Ephesians 1:23, Ephesians 3:19, Ephesians 4:13, Colossians 1:19, Colossians 2:9, John 1:16, 1 John 4:16, 2 Corinthians 5:14, John 15:9-10, Romans 5:5, 1 John 3:1-3.   Order your copy of Cindy's new book, NEW MOVES OF GOD Check out Cindy's TV show, CINDY STEWART LIVE. You can register for the 6-week, self paced e-course at COMPELLED TO CHANGE.  Please email Cindy with any questions or comments to cindy@cindy-stewart.com. She'd love to hear from you.  Pastor Cindy's Website  Pastor Cindy's Facebook  Pastor Cindy's Instagram Gathering Website  Gathering Facebook   Check out the other shows from KB PODCAST PRODUCTIONS: THE KINGDOM BRINGER PODCAST with Darin Eubanks Next Level Podcast with Michael McIntyre Super-Natural Living with Beth Packard KINGDOM MASTER MIND PODCAST with Ann McDonald   Podcast music from HOOKSOUNDS.COM    

When identity is insecure, fear drives marriage into performance and hiding. But when our identity is secure in Christ, marriage becomes a place of safety and connection.In this episode, we explore how gospel identity dismantles fear and performance, drawing from Romans 8 and Ephesians 2:10. Discover how living out who you are in Christ leads to greater honesty, emotional safety, and deeper connection in marriage—moving couples from striving to security.

In this message from Ephesians 3:20–21, David Platt encourages us to pray with faith in God's power, the kind of prayer that amazes Jesus.Explore more content from Radical.

Ephesians 6:10-20 Too many Christians say they believe they are in a battle, but live as if that were not the case. Jonathan Pokluda leads us through a fly-by of the armor of God, and tells us what it looks like to live suited up and ready for the attacks of the enemy.   For more information about Breakaway, check out www.breakaway.org and follow us on social media @breakawaymin If Breakaway has impacted your life and you want to generously give back, visit www.breakaway.org/give

Did Bethel Church actually repent over the Shawn Bolz scandal? In this episode of The Remnant Radio, we carefully examine the public statements and actions of Bethel Church leadership—including Bill Johnson, Kris Vallotton, and Danny Silk—to determine whether their response represents genuine biblical repentance or merely institutional damage control. From questions of prophetic accountability and false prophecy to the broader credibility of charismatic theology, this conversation aims to help believers think clearly, biblically, and sober-mindedly about what true repentance looks like in church leadership.We walk step-by-step through what Bethel leaders said, what they admitted, what they failed to address, and how their response compares to the biblical standard for repentance, confession, and restoration. We also interact with the wider conversation sparked by Mike Winger and others, exploring how prophecy abuse and leadership silence can damage trust in the church and distort the witness of the gospel. As continuationists who affirm the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit, we believe accountability is not an attack on the charismatic movement—it is essential to its integrity.Critical Questions Discussed:-Is Bethel's apology genuine or just PR spin?​-What does biblical restoration require beyond saying "I'm sorry"?​-Why did it take Mike Winger's exposé for leadership to act?​-What about Kenneth Copeland, The Passion Translation, and other concerning endorsements?​-How can churches protect victims while reconciling fallen leaders to the body of Christ?Our goal is not to tear down, but to tell the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15), to test everything and hold fast to what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21), and to call the Church to holiness, transparency, and faithfulness to Christ. If you care about sound theology, responsible use of spiritual gifts, and protecting God's people from spiritual harm, this conversation is for you.Special thanks to the Bethel alumni who held their leaders accountable—your faithfulness in speaking truth in love catalyzed this moment of repentance. This could be a watershed moment for the charismatic movement if genuine fruit follows these words.0:00 – Introduction2:04 – Context and Prior Bethel Concerns13:23 – Bethel's Response 23:23 – Kris Vallotton's Personal Disclosure30:28 – The Jezebel Passage Misinterpretation33:34 – Bethel's New Core Values 38:10 – Bethel Issues That Remain Unaddressed49:03 – Bill Johnson's Repentance Message1:00:40 – Bill Johnson's TBN Interview Mistake1:17:43 – Danny Silk's Email 1:34:05 – Final Thoughts Subscribe to The Remnant Radio newsletter and receive our FREE introduction to spiritual gifts eBook. Plus, get access to: discounts, news about upcoming shows, courses and conferences - and more. Subscribe now at TheRemnantRadio.com.Support the showABOUT THE REMNANT RADIO:

In this Gospel Hour teaching, Peter walks us through part of Ephesians 4, proclaiming the unity of the faith and the purpose of the five-fold ministry. He expounds on what it looks like to be in the Body of Christ, provoking thoughts about the Gospel triumphing over personality and preference. Join us weekly on Zoom for Gospel Hour on Wednesdays at 9a CST here: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9657760302Find a Gospel Night near you here.Click here to grow the Braveheart Garden.Send us a textSupport the show

Freedom in Christ is not just a spiritual idea—it’s a lived reality. This Christian devotional explores what it means to be alive in Christ, revealing how faith in Jesus breaks the power of sin and invites believers into a transformed life of obedience and hope. Rooted in Romans 6:11–12, this devotion reminds us that through Christ, we are no longer slaves to sin but children of God, empowered to live differently. Highlights Faith in Jesus breaks the bondage of sin Believers are no longer slaves but children of God True transformation comes through surrender to Christ God offers redemption and second chances to anyone who believes Being alive in Christ means choosing obedience over fleshly desires Temptation loses power when we submit ourselves to God Lasting freedom is found only in Christ, not in the world Do you want to listen ad-free? When you join Crosswalk Plus, you gain access to exclusive, in-depth Bible study guides, devotionals, sound biblical advice, and daily encouragement from trusted pastors and authors—resources designed to strengthen your faith and equip you to live it out boldly. PLUS ad free podcasts! Sign Up Today! This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. If you are struggling with debt call Trinity today. Trinity's counselors have the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org TrinityCredit – Call us at 1-800-793-8548. Whether we're helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments. https://trinitycredit.org Full Transcript Below: Alive in ChristBy Vivian Bricker Bible Reading:“In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires” (Romans 6:11-12). From the moment we place faith in Jesus, our lives change. We are no longer held in bondage to sin in the same way as we used to be. While we will all continue to struggle with sin throughout our lives, we are no longer slaves to sin. Instead, we are children of God. As His children, we are no longer compelled to obey the sinful flesh as we should want to follow, glorify, and obey God in every area of our lives. Many people have radical changes after placing faith in Jesus and I had the privilege of getting to know someone who had one of these amazing changes in their life. There was an employee at my former Bible college who was known to be a previous criminal, and he served many years in prison due to his crimes. While he was in prison, he placed faith in the Lord and his entire life changed. I did not know this person prior to his conversion, but I do know he is one of the kindest individuals I have ever had the honor of meeting. Whenever I think of this individual, I am reminded of the power of the Lord. He can completely transform a person’s life and give them a second chance. This man was always more than happy to tell anyone about Jesus and how much He had done in his life. When we choose to follow Jesus and surrender our lives to Him, only good will come from it. By turning to Jesus, we are choosing life. If you have not placed faith in Jesus yet, know that it is never too late to believe in Him. If you believe that Jesus died for your sins, was buried, and rose again, you will be saved (Romans 10:9-11). Intersecting Faith & Life: The Bible tells us, “In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires” (Romans 6:11-12). The Apostle Paul spoke these words to the Roman Church, but they still apply to us today. We are dead to sin, but alive in Christ Jesus. This means that we are no longer subject to obey the sinful flesh. Rather than submitting to worldly desires, we submit ourselves to God (James 4:7). God has powerful things in store for us; all we need to do is follow Him. Even if the sinful flesh tries to tempt us by saying sin is the “better way,” we know that true life is only found in Christ. Turning away from sin looks like staying away from anything that tempts us or causes sin to rise in our hearts. For example, if jealousy is a common sin you struggle with, avoid spending too much time on social media. Choose to practice thankfulness for all the blessings of God in your life and avoid comparing yourself to others. Talk with God in prayer, lean on Him, and study His Word. It may also help to lean on other believers and ask them for their advice in rising above the temptations of the flesh. Jesus Himself knows what it feels like to be tempted, and He will help us find a way to escape it (Hebrews 4:15). Have you been made alive in Christ? If not, what is holding you back? What sin keeps you bogged down? How might you ask the Lord to help you fight back against this sin? Further Reading: Romans 6:23 2 Corinthians 5:17 Ephesians 3:20-21 Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Build A Home Of Godliness And Joy with the devotional workbook.   Episode 284 // Want the key to enjoying family life? It's not a secret. In fact, it's right in Ephesians 5, in a short and simple passage we'll be looking at together today.    The Lord tells us to “be very careful, then, how you live - not as unwise but as wise.” He gives us opportunities to love our family and deepen our relationships - this is how we enjoy them more! He makes his will known to us in the Bible, and when we are wise, we pay attention and live it out.   Of course, simple does not mean easy. “The days are evil,” the same Bible passage tells us. Family relationships include miscommunication, disappointment, stress, and overwhelm. We live in a busy, distracting world.   So let's come together today for some biblical encouragement in how to “be very careful,” to be wise, and to live intentionally in ways that honor our Lord, bless our family, and bring us greater joy.   This is Part 3 of our series “Intentional Living As A Christian Mom.”    Let's dive in.   hugs & blessings, Jess   RESOURCES FOR YOU   FREE: Get my free Christian mom journaling prompts PDF!   DEVOTIONAL: Grab the devotional workbook Building A Home Of Godliness And Joy.   RELATED ON THE PODCAST: Psalm 90: Do You Have A Heart Of Wisdom? (Summertime In The Psalms Series) (EP 259)   RELATED ON THE BLOG: A Biblical Picture Of Godly Relationships In A Christian Home   GET MORE & SUPPORT THE SHOW   Support the show on Patreon for just a few dollars a month, and grab access to behind-the-scenes family life encouragement.   Please leave a 5-star review and share the link to this episode with a friend who needs encouragement today!   FIND EXACTLY THE RESOURCE YOU NEED: Faith | Marriage | Parenting | Emotions | Communication | Home & Family | Freebies | Devotionals | Blog | Pinterest   DISCLAIMERS    I am a licensed therapist in South Carolina, but this podcast is not therapy. I may use affiliate links and earn a small commission if you purchase through my links. Read my full disclaimers here.   MISSION   Love Your People Well is all about helping you ENJOY family life as you build healthy, happy, and holy family relationships. Keep Jesus at the center of it all and joy at the center of your days.   Find your resources, devotionals, and more support at www.LoveYourPeopleWell.com

Discover your true identity in Christ and the God who planted His own dreams inside you—and why your desires still matter. In this third part of the God’s Dreams, Your Dreams: Is God That Good? series, Dr. Catherine Toon dives deep into how a profoundly good God designed you as His “poetry” (Ephesians 2:10), crafted in love, and filled you with holy desires that won’t go away. She separates your unshakable ontology (who you are in Christ) from your changing roles, assignments, and seasons, so you never confuse your worth with what you do. Catherine exposes the religious lie that your heart is fundamentally untrustworthy and shows how God’s love and spiritual healing restore you to your true self. From Romans 8 and the unveiling of the sons and daughters of God, to Psalm 37:4 and Ephesians 3:16–20, she reveals a Father who works all things together for good, shares His glory with you, and dares you to dream with Him again. Creation itself is “on tiptoe,” waiting for you to wake up to who you are and step into the dreams He’s planted in your heart. You’ll learn how to discern between selfish fantasies and God-breathed desires, how spiritual transformation flows from union with a personal, loving God (not a vague cosmic force), and how experiencing God in your desires leads to real-world impact and inner healing. This is about discovering your identity in God and living as a co-creator of heaven-on-earth in your unique flavor. Practical takeaway: Ask Holy Spirit to highlight one dream that keeps resurfacing, even after disappointment. Write it down, invite Jesus into the grief and delay, and pray: “Father, I give You the right to direct my life—ignite Your dreams in me again.” Then watch for the next small, courageous step. Register for Pursued By Love: A Love Encounter with the God Who Adores You - https://catherinetoon.com/pursuedbylove If this blessed you: • Subscribe for more conversations on God’s love, identity in Christ, and inner healing • Share this with a friend who needs hope today • Explore Catherine’s resources & community for next-step support To support the ministry with tax-deductible donations: https://catherinetoon.com/support/ Please Like, Share, & Subscribe -- a little thing that makes a big difference! Thank You! Marked by Love, Revised & Expanded Edition is here:
#1 Best Seller & #1 New Release in our category! Get your copy: https://amzn.to/3K2J9ZV God, Male & Female?: https://amzn.to/49hzCIM CONNECT WITH CATHERINE: ► Website: https://catherinetoon.com/ ► Facebook: @catherinetoonmd
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 Catherine has been in the business of changing lives for decades as an author, speaker, and prophetic coach. She is incredibly gifted at calling forth personal destiny and has helped thousands of individuals who are on that journey.

Today's podcast has an "*" next to Exodus 12 because this chapter is one of the most important chapters in the Bible. It shows us God's work of redemption specifically through the blood of a lamb. This key chapter points us to Christ who is our true redemption. Join us for this study in this key chapter!  DISCUSSION AND STUDY QUESTIONS: 1.    The podcast mentioned that Exodus 12 is one of the most important chapters in the Old Testament. Why do you think this is the case?  2.    Early in the podcast, it explains what the term "Passover" means and what it refers to. What explanation was given? How does Isaiah 31:5 help us understand the concept of "sparing someone"?  3.    How does the Passover event show us what redemption looks like? In light of what we've seen so far in our study of God's Word, who are some other people back in Genesis who were redeemed by God? What were they redeemed to or for? 4.    1st Corinthians 5:7 calls Jesus our Passover lamb. What were some of the ways discussed in the podcast for how the Passover meal pictured Jesus and His life and ministry?  5.    What were the specific steps given in verses 3 – 12, that these first Jews were to follow with that first Passover? What promise did the Lord give to them in verse 13?  6.    We know later from passages like Hebrews 3:16 and Hebrews 4:3 that these people were not truly going to follow and obey the Lord throughout their lives. What explanation did the podcast give for how a person could enter into a physical covenant with the Lord but not automatically be in a spiritual covenant with Him? What has to happen to be in a true, spiritual covenant with the Lord? 7.    Why were the people commanded to wait inside in Exodus 12:23? What do you think it would have been like, to be safe inside while hearing the agony of people outside as God's judgment fell upon them? 8.    According to the podcast, what might be some reasons why God brought this judgment of death upon the Egyptians? How do we see God's mercy leading up to this judgment? How did the people respond to God's warnings?  9.    What reason was given in the podcast for why the Lord might have brought the death of the firstborn? How did this finally break the Egyptian hold on the Jewish slaves?  10.    Although this passage is about the physical redemption of Israel, it ultimately points to our spiritual redemption that is found in Christ. What is this spiritual redemption that Paul talks about in Ephesians 1:7? What is its basis? What does it accomplish? Check out our Bible Study Guide on the Key Chapters of Genesis! Available on Amazon just in time for the Genesis relaunch in January! To see our dedicated podcast website with access to all our episodes and other resources, visit us at: www.keychapters.org. Find us on all major platforms, or use these direct links: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6OqbnDRrfuyHRmkpUSyoHv Itunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/366-key-chapters-in-the-bible/id1493571819 YouTube: Key Chapters of the Bible on YouTube. As always, we are grateful to be included in the "Top 100 Bible Podcasts to Follow" from Feedspot.com. Also for regularly being awarded "Podcast of the Day" from PlayerFM. Special thanks to Joseph McDade for providing our theme music.   

“For they {Earthly Parents} disciplined us for a short time . . . but he {God} disciplines us for our good, that we may share his {God's} holiness" (Hebrews 12:10) MESSAGE SUMMARY: The Lord disciplines his children; therefore, so should we. Our discipline can take many forms, for example: 1) teach children a lesson, even hard lessons; and 2) it is OK to take away children's privileges. The Lord's discipline is out of love; and our discipline, for our children, should, also, be out of our love. Nobody likes discipline -- we do not like it; our kids do not like it. However, discipline works to bring righteousness and peace, and discipline brings fruit to us and our children down the road. In Hebrews 12:7-10, the author of Hebrews succinctly describes the Biblical perspective regarding discipline: It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as {His} sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us, and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they {Earthly Parents} disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he {God} disciplines us for our good, that we may share his {God's} holiness.".   TODAY'S PRAYER: Lord, help me to be still and to wait patiently for you in silence. In Jesus' name, amen.      Scazzero, Peter. Emotionally Healthy Spirituality Day by Day (p. 125). Zondervan. Kindle Edition. TODAY'S AFFIRMATION: Today, I affirm that, because I am in Jesus Christ, God is working His will in my life (Philippians 2:13). “I can do everything through Him who gives me strength.”. (Philippians 4:14). SCRIPTURE REFERENCE (ESV): 2 Samuel. 7.13-15; 1 Corinthians. 11:32; Ephesians. 6.1-4; Psalms 42:1-11. A WORD FROM THE LORD WEBSITE: www.AWFTL.org. THIS SUNDAY'S AUDIO SERMON: You can listen to Archbishop Beach's Current Sunday Sermon: “Essentials Part1 – People of the Book”, at our Website: https://awordfromthelord.org/listen/ DONATE TO AWFTL: https://mygiving.secure.force.com/GXDonateNow?id=a0Ui000000DglsqEAB

A sermon from Geoff Zeigler on Ephesians 1:3-10, 3:8-11, 4:1-3

Our Election in Christ (4) (audio) David Eells, 1/28/26 We've covered our election in Christ previously pretty well. Today, I'm going to cover more about being predestined in Christ and its connection to Election. (Eph.1:4) Even as he chose (The Greek word here again is eklectos, “elect.”) us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: (5) having foreordained (or “predestined”) us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. Those who are elect are predestined to come into the adoption of sons, which is the same thing we just read. (Rom.8:16) The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: (17) and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified with [him]. Notice that those who suffer the death of their self-life, will manifest their election. What does Paul mean when he says, “Having foreordained us unto adoption as sons”? The answer is found a few verses further down. (Rom.8:23) And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for [our] adoption, [to wit,] the redemption of our body. Those who receive the first-fruits of the Spirit are on their way to the adoption of sons, which is when you receive your redeemed body. Notice that a child must receive the Holy Spirit to manifest sonship.  (25) But if we hope for that which we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for it. The manifestation of our sonship begins when we receive our born-again spirit and then are obedient to receive the Holy Spirit, which enables us to “walk as He walked”. Peter said that your soul is born again through your obedience to the truth. (1Pe.1:22) Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth unto unfeigned love of the brethren, love one another from the heart fervently: (23) having been begotten again (or “born again”), not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth. The soul is where we manifest the fruit of Christ 30-, 60- and 100-fold. Those who have a born-again soul will be given a redeemed body. A born-again soul is the “fruit” that the Bible talks about. It's the fruit of Christ in you. It's the nature of Christ. Your soul is your mind, will and emotions; in other words, it is your nature and your character. While we are still in this body, we can manifest our sonship in spirit and in soul. Full adoption comes when we receive our redeemed body. The elect were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4; Revelation 13:8; 17:8) and they will manifest Christ 30-, 60- and 100-fold, according to what Jesus said (Matthew 13:23; Mark 4:20). They will manifest Christ-likeness. I want to talk about what it is to be “foreknown” and who it is whom Christ knows, because there are Christians, using the term loosely, whom Christ doesn't know, and there are Christians whom He does know. You say, “David, that sounds crazy!” No, from out of all the called among the Christians, there are those whom Christ knows and those whom He doesn't know. I'm going to prove this to you. (2Ti.2:19) Howbeit the firm foundation of God standeth, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his (From the foundation of the world, they've been His because from the foundation of the world He has foreknown them.): and, Let every one that nameth the name of the Lord depart from unrighteousness. This is what proves who are God's people. The people who depart from willful sin are the ones who are His. If you depart from unrighteousness, you will be manifestly His. (20) Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some unto honor, and some unto dishonor. (21) If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified.... Who is sanctified? The elect, who are the ones whom God foreknew, will be sanctified. We read this earlier in Peter. (1Pe.1:1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect who are sojourners of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (2) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. The Lord knows right now those who are His. (2Ti.2:21) If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, meet for the master's use, prepared unto every good work. (22) But flee youthful lusts and follow after righteousness, faith, love, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. The Lord knows right now those who are sanctified. Is every Christian His? Well, does God know every Christian? We've seen that those whom He foreknew, He's going to know at the end, but does He know every Christian among the called now? What is it that makes God know you? (1Co.8:3) But if any man loveth God, the same is known by him. God knows those who love Him. Notice, (Rom.8:28) And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, [even] to them that are called according to [his] purpose. That's not everybody. (29) For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. The ones whom God foreknew are the ones who love Him. What distinguishes between the Christian who loves God and the Christian who doesn't love God? Jesus said, (Joh.14:21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto him. These people are Christians because they have a born-again spirit. All of the called have a born-again spirit, but not all of the called will bear fruit. The called who will bear fruit and be manifested as the elect are the ones who love God. They are going to obey God. They are going to give up their life to have His. They are going to pay the price and the Lord says He knows them. (Jer.1:5) Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations. God knew us by faith before He even formed us in the womb. Amen! Another example, which is one that's constantly misused by the “once saved, always saved” crowd, is this verse: (Joh.10:27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me (That's not everybody out there who ever professed the name of Christ. It's only those who professed the name of Christ and departed from unrighteousness.): (28) and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. That's true; they will never perish. They will receive eternal life. Nobody will ever pluck them out of the Father's hand because they love God and so they will obey God. I didn't say they all overcome immediately, but they do obey God and they overcome. Notice, Jesus says, “I know them.” Doesn't He know everybody? Of course, God knows everybody in this world. God knows their names, and He knows everything about them, but that's not the kind of “know” He's talking about here. This word “know” is the Greek ginosko and it means the kind of personal relationship Adam had with Eve, in that Adam sowed his seed in her and she brought forth fruit. That's the kind of “know” that the Scriptures are talking about. Let me further prove to you that not every Christian, as we use the term loosely, is known by God or has ever been known by God. Jesus said, (Joh.15:2) Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away (This is speaking of the Father taking it away.): and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit. And now look at this verse: (Mat.7:19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Jesus said, “Every branch in me,” so He's talking about people who are Christians, although we use the term “Christian” very loosely nowadays. (20) Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven (These people are calling Him “Lord.” Who else but Christians would have the nerve to do that?); but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. (22) Many will say (What “many” is this? This is the “many” who are calling Him “Lord, Lord.”) to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? These are Christians who are doing the “many mighty works,” unless you believe that today Satan casts out Satan, but Jesus tells us Satan doesn't cast out Satan: (Mat.12:25) And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: (26) and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? So these people were casting out Satan and they were doing mighty works by the power of the Holy Spirit, yet in their own lives, they were not being obedient to the will of the Father. (Mat.7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. What does He mean by “I never knew you”? He means, “I didn't know you from the beginning. I never knew you from before the foundation of the world and you were not written in the Book.” Yes, they were Christians, but they were not found written in the Book at the end because they were not foreknown. They were physically written in the Book when they were born again, but they were erased out of the Book before the end. In the beginning, the ones whom God foreknew were written in the Book by His faith. They are going to overcome. They are going to bear fruit, and they are still going to be there at the end. Others are going to be written in who will not overcome. They will not bear fruit and they will be erased, so even though they were called, they will not be chosen. (Rev 3:5) He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (Mat.7:24) Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock: (25) and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon the rock. (26) And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand: (27) and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall thereof. Notice, Jesus is only talking about two groups of Christians here. He's talking about those who “heareth these words of mine, and doeth them,” and He's talking about those who “heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not.” These can only loosely be Christians. He's not talking about the lost world. Jesus is talking about Christians who, in their own life, are not being obedient to God. They are not loving God, which is not being obedient, therefore He says, “I never knew you.” His seed was not in them. Let me show you more proof of this in the parable of the 10 virgins: (Mat.25:1) Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. (2) And five of them were foolish, and five were wise. Obviously, they had to be Christians or they would not have started out with the “oil” of the Holy Spirit in their lamps. (Pro.20:27) The spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord, Searching all his innermost parts. The oil the virgins had in their lamps symbolized the Holy Spirit, which gave them light. (Mat.25:3) For the foolish, when they took their lamps, took no oil with them: (4) but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. (Obviously some are filled with the Spirit) (5) Now while the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. (6) But at midnight there is a cry, Behold, the bridegroom! Come ye forth to meet him. (7) Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. (8) And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are going out. (9) But the wise answered, saying, Peradventure there will not be enough for us and you: go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. (10) And while they went away to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage feast: and the door was shut. The five foolish virgins should have been “buying” the oil of the Holy Spirit all along. How do you “buy” the oil of the Holy Spirit? You “buy” it when you give up your life to gain your higher life (Matthew 10:38-39; 16:25; Mark 8:35; Luke 9:24; John 12:25). You do have to buy it. You can be filled with you or you can be filled with Him. We do have to give something for His life. Jesus said we have to give up our life, and they were not doing this. (Mat.25:11) Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. (12) But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. (13) Watch therefore, for ye know not the day nor the hour. The 10 virgins were all Christians, but the five foolish virgins were not filled with the Spirit of God and they were not being disciples of Christ in their own lives. Jesus said to them, “I know you not.” This is the second witness. Can you have been born again? Yes, you can be born again in spirit. Some people like to think that they are just a shoo-in for the Kingdom because they are born again in spirit and even have the Holy Spirit. However, remember what the Bible says about the children of God: (Rom.8:17) … If so be that we suffer with [him,] that we may be also glorified with [him]. Only the ones who suffer with Him will be the glorified sons of God. We have to suffer the crucifixion of the old life; that's why we were put here. These are the ones who are going to be glorified. (29) For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: (30) and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. These are the ones who were foreknown to be conformed to the image of His Son and be glorified. Jesus said in (Luk.13:24) Strive to enter in by the narrow door: for many, I say unto you, shall seek to enter in, and shall not be able. The five foolish virgins wanted to go through the door, too, but found that it was shut to them. (25) When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door (indicating we have a limited time to bear fruit), and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, open to us; and he shall answer and say to you, I know you not whence ye are; (26) then shall ye begin to say, We did eat and drink in thy presence, and thou didst teach in our streets; (27) and he shall say, I tell you, I know not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. Again, He's talking to disobedient Christians here. The people in this verse are just like the foolish virgins who didn't bear any fruit to be able to enter through the door. Jesus will say of them, “I know you not whence ye are.” The Amplified Bible says, “I know not of what family, or of what parentage, you are from.” You see, it's only by bearing fruit that we can prove God is our Father. Maturity is coming to know God the way He knows us. (1Co.13:9) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; (10) but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away. (11) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things. Paul is talking about maturity, about growing up and bearing fruit in God, and he's using a little parable here to show us how to do that. (12) For now we see in a mirror, darkly (Some versions have “dimly,” or “indistinctly,” or “obscurely.”); but then face to face (The more you grow in God, the more you truly know Him clearly.): now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known. God fully knew the elect; He fully knew those who would come to maturity. God is speaking about one specific group of people here: He's speaking about those who come to see Him face-to-face. Paul says that these people will come to fully know God in the same way God knew them. (13) But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love. God knows those who love Him. We are coming to know Him because He first knew us. Those who love God will seek the truth; they will humble themselves to the truth, and they will be obedient by His grace through their faith. An example can be found in the life of Moses: (Exo.33:12) And Moses said unto the Lord, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name (What is this talking about? Of course, God knows everyone's name.), and thou hast also found favor (The Hebrew word there is chen and it means “grace.”) in my sight. (13) Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found favor in thy sight, show me now thy ways, that I may know thee, to the end that I may find favor in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people. (14) And he said, My presence shall go [with thee], and I will give thee rest. Moses is saying, “You know me by name, and You say that I have Your grace, so now let me know You.” That's the same situation with God and His elect. He has always known them by name since the foundation of the world and they have His grace. Now they are coming to know the one who has always known them. They are coming to know Him fully, even as they also were fully known. (Exo.33:17) And the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; for thou hast found favor in my sight, and I know thee by name. There it is again. Knowing us by name means knowing us by His nature and character in us. (18) And he said, Show me, I pray thee, thy glory. We've seen that the ones who were foreknown before the foundation of the world are those who will be glorified (Romans 8:29,30). (19) And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee (God knew Moses by name and now Moses is going to know God by name. The Hebrew word for “name” is shem and it means “nature and character.”); and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. God is talking about predestination and election here and we recognize this from Romans, where God talks about Jacob and Esau: (Rom.9:10) And not only so; but Rebecca also having conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac-- (11) for [the children] being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, (12) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. (13) Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. Before they had done anything, Jacob belonged to God; Jacob was God's before he was born. That makes it obvious that “God so loved the world” means He's only loving worldly Jacob, or Israel, because these are the people who have been given the gift of faith to come to Him and believe on Him. So God had mercy on Jacob, but He gave justice to Esau. (Psa.33:12) Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, The people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance. (13) The Lord looketh from heaven; He beholdeth all the sons of men; (14) From the place of his habitation he looketh forth Upon all the inhabitants of the earth, (15) He that fashioneth the hearts of them all, That considereth all their works. It's God who fashions the hearts of all people. (Ecc.3:11) He hath made everything beautiful in its time: also he hath set eternity in their heart, yet so that man cannot find out the work that God hath done from the beginning even to the end. Man cannot find the way of God unless He draws them. Yes, everything is beautiful in its time. Everything that God has made has a good purpose and that includes the evil. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things. The evil gives man a choice and also a crucifier of his flesh. Now, let me ask you a question here. If God predestined some to life from the beginning of creation, what is He doing with everybody else? Remember we read, (Rom.9:21) Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? Of course, God does this, but why? (22) What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering (God has done this. In order to show His power, He has endured suffering from.) vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction (Or, in other words, “made to be destroyed,” and here's the reason.): (23) that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory. I don't know about you, but when I look out at the lost multitudes in the world, it makes me appreciate grace and mercy given to the few. How can you know grace and mercy, except you look out over the world and see all of the people who don't have grace and mercy? That should make you feel blessed: “There but for the grace of God, go I.” The multitudes, the masses who are going down the broad road (Matthew 7:13), should make you appreciate the grace and the mercy of God, who said, (Rom.9:15) … I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. Well, God had mercy upon us and we can appreciate His compassion when we look at the lost multitudes. God actually does do this. (1Pe.2:8) … A stone of stumbling (This is speaking of Christ.), and a rock of offence; for they stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. The Scripture says these people were “appointed,” or “designated,” or “preordained,” to stumble at the Word and be disobedient. (9) But ye are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for [God's] own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. You were chosen to be obedient to the Word. You were chosen not to stumble at the Rock of Christ. (2Pe.2:12) But these, as creatures without reason, born mere animals to be taken and destroyed (They were born animals to be destroyed.), railing in matters whereof they are ignorant, shall in their destroying surely be destroyed. These are vessels who have been raised up to put us on our cross and also to show us God's mercy and grace. You ask, “How so, David?” When you go out there and tell them about Christ and they totally can't and wont understand, they show that what God has done for us is mercy and grace. God gave you a revelation and opened your understanding. Why would God do this for you and not for them? He did it for you only because of predestination and election. There are some objections to election and predestination even though it is clearly in the Word. The one I hear the most from people is that God loves the world but we see that it is a people in the world who believe. (Joh.3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. Of course, when people read this verse, they think it means that God loves the whole world. As we've seen from the Scriptures, the Bible doesn't teach that God loves the whole world and even in this verse it doesn't say that because there is a condition given for God's love. That is, “whosoever believeth on him” and that limits God's love to a very few. The majority are not going to believe on the Son, since the only way to have any hope of believing on the Son is to receive the gift of faith from God. (Eph.2:8) For by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; (9) not of works, that no man should glory. You see, faith is a gift from God; believing on the Son is a gift from God. The people in the world who do believe on the Son are the ones to whom God has given the gift to be drawn to the Son and have eternal life. (Joh.15:19) If ye were of the world, the world would love its own: but because ye are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. God did not choose the world; He chose us out of the world. In effect, that means God chose not to choose the rest of the world. And so when we read verses like John 3:16, we have the level of revelation that God permits because of our lack of understanding. I feel as if the Lord showed me that when we are carnal, it's easier for us to understand this as if God does love the whole world, and therefore not attribute foolishness to God. But as we grow in knowledge, the more we see the plan and wisdom of God, and the more we fear God. Jesus didn't claim everybody in the world and here's another good example of that: (Joh.10:16) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring (So they haven't come to Him yet.), and they shall hear (They haven't even heard of Him yet.) my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. He's talking about a multitude of people that includes us. We are included in this group. So at the time Jesus made this statement, some people didn't know Him, they hadn't heard of Him, and they hadn't even been born yet, but they have been His. God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world; therefore, our election has nothing to do with time. (Eph.1:4) even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: (5) having foreordained (or predestined) us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. We have belonged to Christ since the time God set His plan into action at the beginning. We were chosen in Him as our Savior at the very beginning. “Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold” and they are going to become one flock with one Shepherd. So when He says, “having loved his own,” He's only talking about those who come from God, those who belong to God. He's only talking about the wheat and the sheep. (Joh.15:19) If ye were of the world, the world would love its own: but because ye are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. God did not choose the world; He chose us out of the world. In effect, that means God chose not to choose the rest of the world. The Bible says God hates all workers of iniquity: (Psa.5:5) The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Jesus told us, (Joh.14:21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto him. So, again, we see the love of the Father is shown only to those who love Jesus. Another verse, where the wisdom of God is speaking, says the same thing: (Pro.8:17) I love them that love me; And those that seek me diligently shall find me. The Bible says three times in the New Testament that Jesus is the wisdom of God (Luke 11:49; 1 Corinthians 1:24,30). There is a condition to the manifestation of God's love. I say “manifestation” because God loved us before we were. God loved Jacob before he was born. God loved him even before he had done anything because it's not by works, it's by election. (Rom.5:8) But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. God wanted to show us His love in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. God, who sees the end from the beginning (Isaiah 41:4), loved us for what He knew He was going to create in us from before the foundation of the world (Romans 8:28-30). God loved the end creation that He saw by faith. His love is manifested for those who walk according to His commandments because they love Christ “God commended His own love toward us....” Who is He talking to here? (Rom.1:7) To all that are in Rome (You might think that he's addressing everybody in Rome, but he goes on to qualify this.), beloved of God, called [to be] saints.... That's very, very conditional. He's talking to those who are beloved of God and called “saints.” (Rom.1:7) To all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you (The only people who receive grace are the people who are beloved of God, called “saints.”) and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. God didn't give grace to anyone else. The Lord promised salvation to those who were in Christ from the foundation of the world because Christ died for us. People always say, “Well, Christ died for the world.” No, the Bible says that Christ died “for whosoever will” (Mark 8:34; Revelation 22:17). God is the one who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure (Ephesians 1:5,11; Philippians 2:13), and “whosoever will” is only those who have the gift from Father of being drawn to Christ. (Joh.6:44) No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. They're the ones who have the will. So, it is to “whosoever will” but, specifically, Christ died for us and for everyone in the world who is the called of God. They're the ones who are invited to partake of Christ. (Joh.14:22) Judas (not Iscariot) saith unto him, Lord, what is come to pass that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Why would He want to manifest Himself to these and not to the world? It's because He's very particular; He's revealing Himself only to God's chosen. (23) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. And in the next chapter it says in (15:10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. So the manifestation of God's love is for those who are obedient and who walk in Christ. And the manifestation of God's love by faith is for those who have not yet come to Christ, but will come to Him because Jesus said, (Joh.6:37) All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. God loves them, not for what they are now, but for what they will be when they do come to Christ and walk in obedience to Him. Now I want you to look at this next verse again because people like to claim it for just anybody who says they're a Christian. (Rom.8:28) And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, [even] to them that are called according to [his] purpose. But people don't go on to consider the next verse. (29) For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. The promise is to work “all things together for good,” and is made to those who love God and we know who loves God because Jesus told us those who keep His commandments are those who love Him. Those who walk by faith are empowered to obey. I'm not saying that they don't ever fail; I'm saying they are able to walk into obedience, getting closer and closer to God, because they walk by faith. We know that power comes from God because of faith (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:24; 1 Peter 1:5). So Romans 8:28 is talking about those “whom he foreknew.” They are the ones He predestined to come into the image of His Son, 30-, 60- and 100-fold. Everything is going to work together for their good; even chastening and the curse work together for the good of those who are called of God to come into the image of His Son. In the prophecy given to Joseph, the husband of Mary, it said, (Mat.1:21) And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins. The only ones who are saved from their sins are the ones who are already His people. Only sinners can be saved. They are His people by election, not by manifestation.

Today we continue in Ephesians chapter 6, looking at verse 4, where the ApostlePaul speaks directly to fathers about their God-given responsibilities in thehome. In this one verse, God gives us both a warning and a calling.If left to themselves, children will naturally go their own way. Scripture andexperience both confirm this. That is why God places the responsibility oftraining children squarely on the parents—especially the father. The Biblerecords tragic consequences when parents neglect this calling. David pamperedAbsalom, and it ended in rebellion and heartbreak. Eli failed to discipline hissons, and it brought disgrace to his family and defeat to Israel. Favoritism inIsaac's and Jacob's homes produced division and sorrow. God gives us theseaccounts as warnings, not merely history lessons.In this one verse Pauloutlines several responsibilities for fathers. First, a father must notprovoke his children. In Paul's day, fathers held tremendous authority. InRoman culture, a father even had the legal right to accept or reject a newbornchild. Paul confronts that abuse of power directly and says, in effect, “Do notuse your authority to crush your children, but to build them up.” In Colossians3:21, Paul added, “Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they bediscouraged.” The opposite of provoking is encouraging. Fathersprovoke their children when they say one thing and do another, when theycriticize but rarely praise, when discipline is harsh one day and ignored thenext, when favoritism exists in the home, or when promises are made but notkept. Children can also be provoked when parents dismiss problems that are veryreal and painful to them. Christian parents need the fullness of the HolySpirit to respond with wisdom, patience, and sensitivity to their children'sneeds.Second,a father must nurture his children. Paul says, “Bring them up”—aphrase that means to nourish or cherish. It is the same word used earlier whenhusbands are told to nourish their wives. Fathers are called to nourish theirchildren not only physically, but emotionally and spiritually. Providing food,clothing, and shelter is important—but it is not enough. Children also needlove, encouragement, affirmation, and spiritual guidance. Jesus gives us the pattern: “And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.” That is balanced growth—mental, physical, spiritual, and social. Nowhere in Scripture does God assign the spiritual training of childrento institutions outside the home. Churches and schools can assist, but theresponsibility belongs to the parents.Third,a father must discipline his children. The word translated “training”carries the idea of discipline and correction. Scripture consistently teachesthat discipline is an expression of love. “Whom the Lord loves, Hedisciplines.” A lack of discipline does not show kindness—it shows neglect.However, discipline must be done in the right way. It must never beadministered in anger. A parent who loses control cannot teach self-control.Discipline must also be fair and consistent. Children need to know where theboundaries are. Loving discipline provides security. Even when childrendisagree, they understand that someone cares enough to guide them. Many adultstoday admit they never knew where the limits were growing up because no onecared enough to discipline them. That uncertainty often leads to insecurity andpoor choices later in life.Fourth,a father must instruct and encourage his children. Paul uses the word “admonition,”which refers to verbal instruction and counsel. Parenting is not only aboutactions—it is also about words. The book of Proverbs is filled with a fatherlovingly instructing his son in the ways of wisdom. Children may not alwaysappreciate instruction at the moment, but that does not remove theresponsibility to teach. Our counsel must always be rooted in the Word of God,which equips us to guide our children wisely.

Ephesians summarized, 4:11-16 applied

Psalm 31:1-6 Psalm 130 Ephesians 4:26-27 Prayer Requests to psp@sqpn.com

In the third installment of the Ephesians series, Richard and Daniel talk about Paul's powerful prayer for the Ephesians and how prayer can bring us into a deeper relationship with God.  TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Introduction and Feedback 3:30 Leadership Trivia 4:20 Ephesians 3:12-17 35:30 Leadership Trivia Response   Questions or comments? Email us at podcast@blackaby.org DONATE: If you have enjoyed this podcast and want to support our ministry into the next 20 years, click here: https://bit.ly/382Exi3 RESOURCES: Mark your calendars for May 18-20, 2026 when Richard will be presenting Experiencing God – Part 2 at the Cove in Asheville, NC. More info to come. Join Blackaby Ministries' next Spiritual Leadership Coaching Workshop here: https://www.blackabycoaching.org/workshop CONNECT: X: @richardblackaby Facebook: https://bit.ly/2WvZPzw Read Richard's latest blog posts at www.richardblackaby.com

In this episode of The Leader's Notebook (Ep. 297), I take us to Ephesians 4 and 5 to confront the gap between theoretical Christianity and real life in the Spirit. Too many believers are content to talk about faith without ever stepping into the canoe. Paul reminds us that being filled with the Holy Spirit is not an abstract idea—it shows up in how we speak, forgive, submit, give, and love one another. Spirit-filled living is intensely practical. This message calls us beyond gifts, experiences, and religious language into holiness expressed in community. Walking in love means allowing the Holy Spirit to probe our lives, heal our relationships, and shape the way we live with family, church, and the people God places around us. Real Christianity is not learned in theory—it is lived in love. – Dr. Mark Rutland Chapters (00:00:03) - The Leaders Notebook(00:00:25) - Paul's Letter to the Church(00:07:35) - Paul lists the negative aspects of human relationships in Ephesians 5(00:12:50) - The Gifts of the Holy Spirit(00:17:40) - Have You Received the Holy Spirit?(00:21:50) - Paul on Submission in Ephesians 5(00:27:39) - Paul's On Submission and Love(00:30:58) - The Contradiction of Submission and Authority(00:36:09) - Gossip in the Family(00:43:08) - How to Live in Community(00:47:24) - The Leader's Notebook

The story goes that some years ago a cartoonist named Walt Disney - maybe you've heard of him - well, he went with his children to an amusement park, and he was disgusted! The park was covered with litter, bathrooms were filthy. And that day Walt Disney made up his mind that the park he wanted to build someday would always be clean. If you've ever been to Disneyland or to Disney World, you know Walt Disney got his way. You know how they keep it that way? As soon as a cup or a wrapper drops, it seems like there's someone there to pick it up. They keep big messes from happening by quickly cleaning up every small one. I'm Ron Hutchcraft and I want to have A Word With You today about "Don't Let a Mess Get Started." Now, our word for today from the Word of God, it's from Ephesians 4:26-27. I guess we could call it God's clean-up plan. "In your anger do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the Devil a foothold." Now, here's an interesting passage that leads into the next chapter, Ephesians 5, and it's about Christian marriage among other things. And I think that's appropriate, because well, you've got a wonderful blueprint here for keeping big messes out of your marriage. He basically says, "Don't go to bed mad." I think this ought to be over every married couple's bed maybe, "Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry" because that gives the Devil a place to stand; a little foothold that can start to erode a relationship. Follow the Disney method for avoiding big messes. Don't let a mess get started. Many marital disintegrations can be traced to some hurt or issue that once was pretty small. It could have been dealt with easily then, but it wasn't, and layers and layers have accumulated over that now. There's scar tissue, there's hardness, there's bitterness and there's resentment. If only it had been dealt with before the sun went down. You know why we don't do that? Oh, a husband's too busy. He says, "Well, I can't deal with this little thing right now; it's too small an issue." Get it while it's small. Or maybe the wife's too busy herself, or she's too protective and she says, "Well, the poor guy. He's got so much on his mind, I don't want to bother him" and so it gets buried. But like toxic waste, it's not going to go away. It's going to keep radiating poison, and one day it will be a critically deadly poison. Conflict, hurt, and misunderstanding? They have to be dealt with on a 24-hour basis. Otherwise, there's a build up, and one day an avalanche that buries everyone. It's a whole lot better to deal with a snowball than an avalanche. That issue - the frustration - will never be smaller than it is today; it's only going to grow. The Bible says in Hebrews 12:15, "See to it that no one misses the grace of God. Do not let any bitter root grow up among you. It will cause trouble; it will defile many." I think that might include the kids who get the radiation from the toxic waste that's been buried. So look, don't let another day go by without beginning to deal with the issue. And if you have to get help from an outside person, do it. But deal with it. You can be close in your marriage. You can stay close till death do you part if you'll pick up the little mess - the first wrapper that drops. It works for Disney World, and it works for the Magic Kingdom of marriage. Just don't let a mess get started.

Allegories. Christians love allegories! That’s a story element of having a person, place, or thing meant a a direct picture of something else, like Jesus or moral virtues. Some people think Jesus did this in parables, or C.S. Lewis did this with Narnia. Others point to Pilgrim's Progress as a prime example. Even if they're right about that, might some readers and authors focus so much on possible “allegories” that we miss great stories’ deeper meanings? Episode sponsors The Unraveling of Emlyn DuLaine by Lindsay A. Franklin The Case of the Heart Stone by Tulli Cole Above the Circle of Earth by E. Stephen Burnett Mission update New at Lorehaven: the Authorship has launched! Listen to last week's episode, or read the companion article. Also, join the Guild by Saturday, Jan. 31 for Stephen's livestream: How to Sell a Sci-Fi Novel in Just Twenty-Five Easy Years Subscribe free to get updates and join the Lorehaven Guild Quotes and notes Allegory is a form of literature in which material figures represent immaterial virtues or vices. So in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress, the character Timorous represents fear and Mr. Worldly Wiseman represents worldly wisdom. In our day, distinction of genres has been muddled a bit, so we tend to regard any story with symbolic elements in it as allegorical, but it was not always this way. C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia, for instance, are not allegories, even as often as they are referred to as such, and Lewis himself said as much. The parables of Jesus could be said to contain allegorical elements, some more than others, but they are not strictly speaking themselves allegories. Jesus definitely deals in the world of virtues and vices, but he is most immediately interested in the world of human beings, their hearts, their words, and their deeds. “How Not to Read the Parables,” Jared C. Wilson The reason for the long history of the misinterpretation of the parables can be traced back to something Jesus himself said, as recorded in Mark 4:10–12. When asked about the purpose of parables, he seems to have suggested that they contained mysteries for those on the inside, while they hardened those on the outside. Because he then proceeded to “interpret” the parable of the sower in a semi-allegorical way, this was seen to give license to the hardening theory and endless allegorical interpretations. The parables were considered to be simple stories for those on the outside to whom the “real meanings,” the “mysteries,” were hidden; these belonged only to the church and could be uncovered by means of allegory. How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth by Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stuart 1. Jesus's parables aren't just allegories Sometimes the Lord interpreted His tales this way. For example, He says the seed is like His word and different soils are like different hearers (see Mark 4:13–20; Matthew 13:18–23; Luke 8:11–15). But we may miss His main point if seek out the Secret Allegories. No less top church fathers seem to have started this trend. Famously he read many allegories into the Good Samaritan tale. But the central point is to answer, “Who is my neighbor?” At other times He simply said, “The kingdom of heaven is like…” Meaning the whole parable says something about His kingdom. What follows might be a prophecy of doom in the end times. Or it might be an illustration of human behavior fit for His reign. His parable may be about groups, individuals, morals, or salvation! In either case, “he who has ears to hear, let him hear.” 2. Pilgrim's Progress is allegory; Narnia is not Many readers fondly remember John Bunyan's classic quest tale. The allegories start simple but accessible, especially for Puritans. “Christian” is a Christian. “Evangelist” is. Apollyon is just a demon! Then as we've previously explored, the allegories get complicated. God, angels, the Bible, and Heaven are literal. So are good and evil. At one point Moses himself cameos as a Law-enforcing antihero! Altogether, Bunyan is both less and more creative than we thought. However, we needn’t impose our view of Progress For instance, many Christians learned to like Narnia by accepting the common belief that Lewis put “allegories” into his fantasy tale. Stephen recalls one article around the movie release in 2005. The writer meant well, but made up all kinds of silly “allegories.” He believed the Pevensies are apostles and weapons are prayer. Lewis himself specifically says outright that he did not do this. Aslan isn't an “allegory” for Jesus. He is Jesus, working his good will in many worlds across a fantastical barely glimpsed multiverse. One's view of “allegory” shouldn't overturn clearly stated words. Otherwise we'd all end up reading our own ideas into the Bible too! 3. Forced allegories may ruin some stories Frankly, forcing allegories into stories risks rejecting their real truth. With limited allegories, Jesus made sure His parables carry layers. With mixed/complex allegories, Pilgrim's Progress has aged well! By avoiding direct allegories, Narnia can be subtle yet also overt. And for new Christian-made fantasy, we can expect the same. Kids and grown-ups can lose themselves in the story, not pulling it apart for useful parts, but being surprised by deeper meanings. History shows this is a far more powerful way to read stories. Instead of making them into Teaching Tools, as if stuff we make up could replace God's word, stories help us see our own responses. This is a far more human emphasis closer to imagination's purpose. And for new writers out there, we encourage going deeper. Allegories look like ultimate meaning, but they're really 101 level. Example: any sword may evoke Ephesians 6. But it's first a sword. You don't have to limit this idea to the word of God or even prayer. Swords have more resonance in Scripture than just one text. They're tools of men and angels alike to defeat or restrain evil. So don't reduce the concrete object to some spiritual abstract. Really this comes down to how we see the world. Do we expect a bodiless “spiritoid” eternity? Or one where matter itself matters? Scripture promises a union of tangible New Earth and New Heaven. Ultimately our stories must hearken to this reality. So study deep! Com station Top question for listeners How do you look for deeper meanings in the Bible and stories? Next on Fantastical Truth Next week is Groundhog Day, and we've already seen this story: Your favorite Christian author, who usually talks about book updates and inspirational life anecdotes, is suddenly posting about controversial political stuff. Should readers impose “no politics! no religion!” rules on story creators who feel strongly about a topic? Or might we expect more from authors posting or not posting hot takes?

Afshin Ziafat opens CROSS CON26 by pressing the gospel into the center—its news so precious that Jesus says it is worth losing your life for, and so powerful that Satan works tirelessly to keep us blind to it. From 1 Thessalonians 1, Ephesians 2, and Romans 3, Afshin shows that we are dead and destined for wrath apart from Christ—but that "But God," in mercy, made a way for God to be just and the justifier through Jesus' finished work. The call is simple and weighty: repent, believe, and turn from idols to serve the living God—no matter the cost. Scripture: 1 Thessalonians 1; Ephesians 2; Romans 3 Topics: Gospel, justification, repentance, assurance, Christian joy

In the conclusion of the Going Higher series, Pastor Chad teaches from Ephesians that believers are called to live from the “heavenly places,” where Christ reigns and where the church now participates in His authority. Through Jesus, heaven and earth are being reunited, and the church is the place where that reality is already breaking into the present world. Paul shows that believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit, continually filled with His fullness, seated with Christ in authority, and empowered to advance God's kingdom. As the church lives out this calling—proclaiming the gospel, exercising spiritual authority, and standing firm in spiritual warfare—it displays God's wisdom to both the world and the powers of darkness, moving higher into God's purpose and glory.

Ephesians 1:11-14 Printable Outline:  1-25-26     Sermon audio:  1-25-26

Are you struggling to live in peace with others, or are you looking for biblical conflict resolution strategies to make your home life better? Whether you have 13 roommates or are living alone and feeling lonely, understanding how to navigate shared living spaces is a crucial spiritual skill.In this video, we dive deep into why roommates can be one of God's greatest gifts to us even when they are difficult! We often think that living alone is the ultimate freedom, but God designed us for community. If you are feeling isolated, inviting someone into your space might be exactly what you need to break the cycle of loneliness.We will cover three essential steps to transforming your roommate relationships from "surviving" to "thriving":Gratitude: Learn to see the person across the hall as an image-bearer of God, not just someone who leaves dishes in the sink.Communication: We unpack Ephesians 4 to discover the "Golden Rules" of Christian communication being honest, keeping current, attacking the problem (not the person), and acting instead of reacting.Wisdom: How to seek counsel and make wise decisions about who you live with and how to handle tough situations.Stop dreading your living situation and start viewing it as a laboratory for your spiritual growth. Watch now to learn how to turn your roommates into true friends!SUBSCRIBE to our channel / @binmin_org JOIN the NEWSLETTER at https://binmin.org/newsletter/SUPPORT Binmin with a tax-deductible gift HERE - https://binmin.org/donate0:00 - ROOMMATES & LONELINESS: WHY THIS MATTERS0:50 - YOU'RE UNIQUE: INTROVERTS, EXTROVERTS, AND LIVING SITUATIONS1:36 - THE 4 STEPS OVERVIEW1:57 - STEP 1: GRATITUDE: ROOMMATES ARE A GIFT3:30 - STEP 2: COMMUNICATION: EPHESIANS 4 PRINCIPLES4:35 - STEP 3: WISDOM: ASK GOD + SEEK COUNSEL5:18 - ROOMMATES CAN BECOME FRIENDS5:48 - NEXT STEP: CONSIDER YOUR ROOMMATE6:08 - SUBSCRIBE, COMMENT, NEWSLETTER + CLOSINGJOIN the⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ NEWSLETTER⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. SUPPORT Binmin with a tax-deductible gift⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ HERE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CONNECT WITH BINMIN: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Linkedin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Binmin.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Questions?: info@binmin.orgPODCAST RESOURCES: More from Binmin:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Binmin.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow on Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LEAVE A REVIEW on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

Today, watch for opportunities to serve the Lord Jesus with His whole heart of compassion. -------- Thank you for listening! Your support of Joni and Friends helps make this show possible.     Joni and Friends envisions a world where every person with a disability finds hope, dignity, and their place in the body of Christ. Become part of the global movement today at www.joniandfriends.org   Find more encouragement on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube.

This message begins with the story of King Asa (2 Chronicles 14–16; 1 Kings 15:9–24), a king who started well by seeking the Lord, tearing down idols, and leading Judah back to God. When faced with overwhelming opposition, Asa cried out to the Lord in humble dependence, and God delivered him (2 Chronicles 14:11). Yet later in life, Asa relied on political alliances instead of prayer and rejected God's correction, showing how easily trust can drift over time (2 Chronicles 16:7–9). Old Testament narratives are meant to shape our relationship with God. These stories are not merely lists of rules, but living examples meant to teach us how to walk with God relationally, learning from faithfulness and failure alike (1 Corinthians 10:11). This story speaks of revival, both biblically and historically. True revival begins when God's people return to Him through prayer, preaching, repentance, and obedient action (2 Chronicles 15:1–7; Acts 2:37–42). Revival is not emotional hype, but a renewed submission to God that produces lasting fruit. We are also called to stand in the gap for truth, rejecting pagan or unbiblical practices that quietly enter our thinking and living (Romans 12:1–2). Our struggle is not against people, but against spiritual forces, as we bear witness to God in our families, workplaces, and communities (Ephesians 6:12). Finally, the life of Asa reminds us that finishing well matters. Faith must be sustained over a lifetime, not just trusting God at the beginning (Hebrews 3:14).The post Forgotten Kings: Asa first appeared on Living Hope.

Today's class is a study of Ephesians 5:21-33. A group of verses that are controversial, often attacked and many times misunderstood. Ephesians 5:21-22 "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, [submit] yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord."  In the original Greek text the second [submit] word is not there. There is not a verb in this sentence and so in traditional Greek practice, you take the verb from the previous sentence and insert it into the next sentence.  Please note that this is really important - because what this is saying is, "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, to your husbands as you do to the Lord." Meaning husband and wife alike are to submit to each other, to look out for one another, in service and submission to the Living God. There is no denying that throughout history many men have treated many women shamefully. But that is not biblical. It is never approved.  Instead, the Scriptures tell us that God intends for married people to be a unity and to willingly submit to one another because of their reverence for Christ. Men and women are to treat their husbands in a way that is consistent with their faith. Ephesians 5:23 goes on to say, "For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Please note the word is "head" not the boss, not the dominant individual. It says he is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.  How does Jesus show He is the head of the church.  He seeks what is best for her, He loves her, He sacrifices Himself for her, He gives Himself completely to her. And here it says the husband is to love His wife in that very same way. Loving, caring, supporting, defending, protecting, doing whatever it takes for the woman he loves. Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her…" That is what submission is all about.  It says, because I love the Lord, I will love my wife in the way He loves me. Both husbands and wives are to practice submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ. Ephesians 5:32 goes on to say, "This is a profound mystery — but I am talking about Christ and the church."  God designed marriage to be a picture of the kind of love that Jesus has for his body, the church. Marriage is a reflection of Jesus' love. Verse 33 concludes: "However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."  God made us male and female and He knows we each have unique needs. Husbands thrive when their wives respect them. Wives thrive when they know how deeply their husbands love them. These verses are a prescription for a happy, joy-filled, life-long marriage. Now What? Learn about God at https://www.awakeusnow.com EVERYTHING we offer is FREE. View live or on demand: https://www.awakeusnow.com/tuesday-bible-class For more check out the series, "What's the Answer"  https://www.awakeusnow.com/whats-the-answer Join us Sundays  https://www.awakeusnow.com/sunday-service Watch via our app. Text HELLO to 888-364-4483 to download our app.

Guest Pastor T.J. Odom preaches from Ephesians 3:16-21.

Ephesians 4:17-32 with Pastor Greg Denham

Today’s Bible Verse: “His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms.” — Ephesians 3:10 Ephesians 3:10 reveals God’s astonishing plan to display His wisdom through the Church. This verse reminds us that the Church is not an afterthought or merely a gathering of people—it is God’s chosen instrument to reveal His wisdom to both the seen and unseen realms. Want to listen without ads? Become a BibleStudyTools.com PLUS Member today: https://www.biblestudytools.com/subscribe MEET YOUR HOST: Dr. Kyle Norman at https://www.lifeaudio.com/your-daily-bible-verse/ The Reverend Dr. Kyle Norman is the Rector of St. Paul’s Cathedral, located in Kamloops BC, Canada. He holds a doctorate in Spiritual formation and is a sought-after writer, speaker, and retreat leader. His writing can be found at Christianity.com, crosswalk.com, ibelieve.com, Renovare Canada, and many others. Rev. Norman has 20 years of pastoral experience, and his ministry focuses on helping people overcome times of spiritual discouragement.Find more from Rev. Norman at revkylenorman.ca This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Strong on correction but struggling to connect? In this third episode of the “Don’t Stay Stuck” series, host Stacy Bellward and Certified Parent Coach Katie Wetsell take on a challenge many who value strict parenting face: how to soften without losing structure? If you value obedience but want warmer relationships with your kids, this episode offers hope and practical next steps. Key Takeaways: Understanding the God-given strengths of parents who lean toward the top of the Connected Families Framework™ Rethinking immediate obedience Living out loud and setting an example for your children Pitfalls of high-demand and low-compassion parenting Practical tools for getting unstuck and finding balance in your parenting Mentioned in this Podcast: Katie Wetsell – Connected Families Certified Parent Coach Free Parenting Assessment PDF Blog Post – First-Time Obedience: Should I Require Immediate Obedience from My Child? Ephesians 6:4 Galatians 6:1 Check out our website for more resources to support your parenting! This podcast was made possible by members of The Table, whose monthly support creates a ripple effect of change for generations to come. We'd love to have you take a seat at The Table! Love the podcast? Leave a review to help other parents discover the show! Guest Bio: Katie Wetsell has always had a calling on her heart to care for children. She has worked as a pediatric oncology nurse and pediatric nurse practitioner. After experiencing the benefits of parent coaching through Connected Families, Katie later resigned from nursing and became a Certified Parent Coach. She and her husband have four children (three boys and a girl) through birth and adoption. Katie is also trained in SPACE treatment to help parents learn how to support their children struggling with anxiety and obsessive-compulsive disorders. You can learn more about Katie at parentwithhope.org, and on Facebook @parentwithhopecoach and Instagram @parentwithhopecoach. © 2025 Connected Families .stk-059b2f5-inner-blocks{justify-content:center !important}.stk-059b2f5{background-image:url(https://connectedfamilies.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/pexels-kindel-media-7978483-1.jpg) !important;padding-top:64px !important;padding-right:64px !important;padding-bottom:64px !important;padding-left:64px !important}.stk-059b2f5:before{background-color:#000000 !important;opacity:0.1 !important}.stk-059b2f5-container{background-color:rgba(41,50,65,0.5) !important}.stk-059b2f5-container:before{background-color:var(--theme-palette-color-3,#293241) !important}.stk-059b2f5 .stk-block-hero__content{min-height:500px !important;max-width:400px !important;margin-right:auto !important;margin-left:0px !important} .stk-3f6d6d5 .stk-block-heading__text{color:#FFFFFF !important}Dare to dream of peace again. .stk-e7e3470 .stk-block-text__text{font-size:18px !important;color:#FFFFFF !important}@media screen and (max-width:999px){.stk-e7e3470 .stk-block-text__text{font-size:18px !important}}It’s not hopeless. You can ENJOY YOUR KIDS AGAIN. .stk-12f93b8 .stk-button{background:var(--theme-palette-color-1,#ee6c4d) !important}.stk-12f93b8 .stk-button:hover:after{background:var(--theme-palette-color-2,#98c1d9) !important;opacity:1 !important}.stk-12f93b8 .stk-button__inner-text{font-size:21px !important;color:var(--theme-palette-color-8,#ffffff) !important;font-weight:600 !important}@media screen and (max-width:999px){.stk-12f93b8 .stk-button__inner-text{font-size:21px !important}}CONNECT WITH A PARENT COACH

Hope for Right Now Podcast – Encore Episode 1: Philippians 1 There's an old Latin proverb that says, “Repetition is the mother of learning.” With that in mind, we are revisiting some of your favorite Hope for Right Now podcast episodes. Our prayer is that before you jump into the New Year you would take some time to look back, and reflect on the ways you've grown in your relationship with God. We will return on February 23, 2026, with a new series based on our brand new Lenten devotional, Desert Bloom: Discovering Unexpected Joy in the Wilderness. As women seeking joy but who often feel confined by our circumstances, this episode kicked off a series titled Grace and Glory, based on Saint Paul's letter to the Philippians, and boy, did it resonate! If you long for a life of joy that is not dependent on your current situation, this episode is definitely worth hitting replay! This is a special encore episode originally released in October 2025. Often called The Epistle of Joy, Saint Paul's letter overflows with rejoicing, gratitude, and encouragement—amazing, when you consider that Paul wrote it from a prison cell. As women seeking joy but who often feel confined by our circumstances, what was Saint Paul's secret? How do we rejoice in our suffering? How do we remain grateful when our situation is the opposite of what we were hoping for?  In this first episode of Grace and Glory, Lisa and Laura unpack Saint Paul's message and reveal how the same joy he wrote about can be yours—no matter what life throws your way. Open your Heart to our key Scripture. Philippians 1 Open your Bible to other Scriptures referenced in this episode. Romans 3:23: Since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Luke 19:10: For the Son of man came to seek and to save the lost. Hebrews 12:14: Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Acts 28:20: For this reason therefore I have asked to see you and speak with you, since it is because of the hope of Israel that I am bound with this chain. Colossians 4:3–4: And pray for us also, that God may open to us a door for the word, to declare the mystery of Christ, on account of which I am in prison, that I may make it clear, as I ought to speak. Colossians 4:18: Remember my chains. Ephesians 6:20: I am an ambassador in chains. 1 Peter 5:10–11: And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, establish, and strengthen you. To him be the dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Luke 7:47: Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven a little, loves a little. Galatians 2:20: I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I know live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Invite Him in with this episode's questions for reflection. Are you feeling stuck in some way or feeling chained to some hard or painful circumstance in your life? Who is observing you in that situation? What are they learning from the way in which you are responding to your suffering? Is there someone you are called to preach the gospel to using the indescribable power of unconditional love? Who are you called to tempt to hope? Show mentions. We will return on February 23 with a new series based on our brand new Lenten devotional, Desert Bloom: Discovering Unexpected Joy in the Wilderness. Hurry and grab your copy before they sell out. St. Thomas Aquinas, quote Eugene Peterson, The Message Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch, The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, Old and New Testament, RSV: Second Catholic Edition Justin Taylor, TGC Blog, T4G 6: David Platt, “Divine Sovereignty: The Fuel of Death-Defying Missions” (Revelation 5:1-14), April 12, 2012, quoted Romanian Pastor Josef Tson Peter Kreeft, Wisdom of the Heart  Let's stay connected. Don't miss an episode. Subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform.  Want to keep the conversation going? Join our private Facebook community. Stay in the know. Connect with us today.  We are committed to creating content that is free and easily accessible to every woman—especially the one looking for answers but unsure of where to go. If you've enjoyed this podcast, prayerfully consider making a donation to support it and other WWP outreach programs that bring women closer to Christ. Learn more about WWP on our website. Our shop. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.

Special Patreon Release: Better Together with Jon and Jolene Rocke   "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Mark 10:9 (KJV)   *Transcription Below*   Questions and Topics We Discuss: What are you so thankful you did in every season of marriage, from newlyweds to empty nesters that you see the pay off now in the present? How has grace and forgiveness benefited your relationship? What advice do you have for all of us married couples as we seek to grow as one, rather than grow parallel or even grow apart from one another?   Jon and Jolene Rocke are my local friends and my guests for today. They work side by side at Peoria Rescue ministries, and they have so many lovely gifts of leadership and hospitality and teaching, but the topic we are going to focus on today is marriage. From the first time we met, Mark and I adored them and appreciated their sweet bond with one another, and I'm so thrilled to introduce you to them today. Here's our chat:   Jon and Jolene both grew up in Christian homes and accepted Jesus as their Savior and Lord at the age of 15.  Jon is from Morton and Jolene from Elgin, IL. They met on a bus ride to a Youth Gathering in Minnesota.  They sat together and talked the whole way home about life, the Bible and God.  Jon played his guitar and sang John Denver songs and their match was made with “Sunshine on my Shoulders”.   They married at the age of 18 and had their first child, Janelle, at 19.  They left for Grace college in Winona Lake, Indiana with an 18 month old toddler in tow and had another baby girl born while in college named Jaime.  At graduation in 1984, they were accepted to Trinity Seminary to follow Jon's desire to be a Professor of Theology, but became pregnant with their son, Jordan, which changed every plan and sent them back home to build up their finances.   They came back to Morton and worked in the Family Business and felt called to stay.  They raised their 3 children in Morton working in the business until God loosened their tent pegs and called them to Peoria Rescue Ministries in 2017. Jon is the Executive Director and Jolene is the Ministry Ambassador.  They are thankful to be working side-by-side in this new season of their marriage.   Jon and Jolene will celebrate their 44th wedding anniversary and have 3 married children and have 10 grandchildren. Their son Jordan and his wife Jessica live in Sandpoint, Idaho with their 3 Kids.  Their daughter Janelle and husband Ryan live in Kennesaw, Georgia with their 3 children.  And their daughter Jaime and her husband Jonathan live here in Morton with their 4 children.   Related Episodes from The Savvy Sauce: 5 Love Languages with Dr. Gary Chapman Traveling with Your Family with Katie Mueller   At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.   Five Love Languages The 5 Love Languages of Teenagers A Teen's Guide to the 5 Love Languages   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Chick-fil-A East Peoria and The Savvy Sauce Charities (and donate online here)   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook, Instagram or Our Website.   Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”   Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”   Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”   Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”   John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”   Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:09)   Laura Dugger: (0:10 - 2:05) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. I want to say a huge thank you to today's sponsors for this episode, Chick-fil-A East Peoria and Savvy Sauce Charities.   Are you interested in a free college education for you or someone you know? Stay tuned for details coming later in this episode from today's sponsor, Chick-fil-A East Peoria. You can also visit their website today at https://www.chick-fil-a.com/locations/il/east-peoria.   If you've been with us long, you know this podcast is only one piece of our nonprofit, which is the Savvy Sauce Charities. Don't miss out on our other resources. We have questions and content to inspire you to have your own practical chats for intentional living.   And I also hope you don't miss out on the opportunity to financially support us through your tax-deductible donations. All this information can be found on our recently updated website, thesavvysauce.com.   Jon and Jolene Rocke are my local friends and my guests for today. They work side by side at Peoria Rescue Ministries, and they have so many lovely gifts of leadership and hospitality and teaching. But the topic we're going to focus on today is marriage. From the first time we met, Mark and I adored them so much and really appreciated their sweet bond with one another. And I'm so thrilled to get to introduce you to them today.   Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Jon and Jolene.   Jon Rocke: (2:05 - 2:06) We're so happy to be here, Laura. Thanks so much for having us.   Laura Dugger: (2:07 - 2:43) Well, it's truly my pleasure. And will the two of you just start by giving us a little background on how you came to know Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?   Jolene Rocke: (2:07 - 2:43) Yeah, I grew up in the Chicago area in a suburb and in a Christian home. So, I was very thankful to know about God. And I came to know Him as my personal Savior at 15. And so, then I really had a complete change. And from then on, I have just followed Him as close as I can. So very thankful for Jesus.   Jon Rocke: (2:44 - 2:59) Yeah, and I was actually 15 as well. Became overwhelmed with my sin at 15 and knew that I did not know Christ. And so, since then, a very imperfect following, but glad to be part of the family.   Laura Dugger: (3:00 - 3:15) Well, and that's awesome that both of you were 15 and never knew that piece of your story. But I'm assuming you were living in different places. So then how did the two of you meet and fall in love?   Jolene Rocke: (3:15 - 4:40) That is such a funny story. Because I, along with a friend of mine from Elgin, jumped on a Morton bus going to Morris, Minnesota. And they picked us up in Rockford. And we got on the bus, went to the same youth gathering for our church denomination. And on the way home from that weekend, we sat on the bus the whole way home and talked.   And Jon had what was so interesting to me, a study Bible. And I had never seen a study Bible in my life. And so, he showed me what an open Bible was with notes at the bottom. And because I came to Christ at 15 and started Bible study on my own with just a spiral notebook, a pen, and my Bible, I was fascinated by this Bible.   And I heard from Morton girls that he carried his Bible everywhere. So, he was kind of different than the rest of the guys. And I told them that's the kind of guy I was looking for. And then to top it all off, he had a guitar. And he sang John Denver songs to me. So, Sunshine on My Shoulders, I think, really made me happy.   Laura Dugger: (4:40 - 4:45) Just knowing your family music is such a big part of worship. Yeah. That's part of what wooed you, too.   Jon Rocke: (4:40 - 5:35) Yeah. Part of the crazy story is that it's a long trip. It's like a 12-hour trip. And so, we left Morton at like 5 in the morning. And so, I'm sleeping on the floor. And we picked these girls up. And I wake up, and I'm like, “Oh, an angel just got on the bus.” That's what I thought. And she was like, she didn't really have anything to do with me the whole weekend till the way home.   But we have a lot of fun with that story. And so that was the beginning. I think I sent flowers the next day. And we began, actually, a very long-distance, over-the-phone relationship, getting to know each other. And we actually went through, I think, the Book of Romans together over the course of, I guess, a year. And then got married. And we were pretty young.   Jolene Rocke: (5:36 - 6:47) Yeah. We met when Jon was just 16. And then two weeks after his 18th birthday, we got married. And I'm a year older. So, it was very young. But we are so thankful because we're going to celebrate 44 years of marriage here.   So, God knit us together, I think, through the fact that we were both really pursuing the Lord individually. And then we were so happy to find somebody like that. I thought I was headed to be a missionary in Africa at the time I met him. And he was, like, searching, too. But both all out pursuit of Christ. And so, I think that's what knit our hearts together. And it didn't hurt that he sent flowers the next day.   Laura Dugger: (6:47 - 7:15) It was a wise move. But I love it because the two of you have really grown up together. Totally. You've been meeting as teens. When you reflect back, what are you so thankful that you did in every season of marriage, from newlyweds to now empty nesters, that you're getting to see the payoff now in the present?   Jon Rocke: (6:49 - 8:10) Yeah, I think sometimes you are intentional. And we've tried to be intentional. But I think sometimes God brings circumstances into your life that sort of force something. So not only were we young when we got married, but nine months after we got married, yeah, we had Janelle, our oldest daughter.   And so, we had to realize we still needed time together. And we had a little baby. It began, I think, an intentional course for us to carve out time. So, you know, we put our kids to bed early. It was a big deal for us as parents that we had our time after they went to bed because we didn't get a whole lot of time.   And other little silly things, the kids didn't get to sit in between us at church. That was the rule. You can sit on either side of mom and dad, but you can't sit in between us. And so that was just, you know, again, a little thing that we did. And some things we had to learn. I'm more of a night person. Jolene's more of a morning person. Part of that, we had to learn at one point, you know, let's make sure we prioritize going to bed together. Just so, again, we had that time. So, there's been all sorts of different steps along the way that we've tried to prioritize each other.   Jolene Rocke: (8:10 - 9:01) So the two words that come to my mind with regard to that are compromise. You're two different people, and you're suddenly thrust together into a home situation. Well, that took compromise on both of our parts. So that's kind of sacrifice, too. That means he doesn't get to stay up until midnight if we want to go to bed together, and I'm going to have to push myself to stay up later just so that we can make a common bedtime.   So, compromise, and then I think the other major thing to me would be communication, because we didn't have a relationship before marriage where we were in the same town and could see each other all the time or go on dates. We didn't have that. So, we had letter writing. This is 43 years ago. So, we had letter writing daily.   Jon Rocke: (9:02 - 9:04) Some of us were daily. He was daily.   Jolene Rocke: (9:05 - 9:11) I wasn't quite as good at letter writing every day, but I was in college by now.   Jon Rocke: (9:11 - 9:13) You were still in high school. Now we know.   Jolene Rocke: (9:14 - 10:15) But I think the communication factor, that actually helped us because, yes, I realize face-to-face dating is a great thing, but to not be able to do that and have nothing but be able to write your day out, what happened during your day, you're learning to tell the other person what happened in your day, how you felt about that, what your dreams, your goals are. So, it started, to me and us, I think a great foundation of communication.   Laura Dugger: (10:15 - 10:30) And is it Song of Songs, I believe, 5:16, where part of it says, “This is my lover, this is my friend,” and that's what I'm hearing, is that you were really deepening your friendship in those early years and that from witnessing your lives, it seems that has only continued.   Jolene Rocke: (10:30 - 10:35) Yeah, exactly. We are so thankful. It's a very different story than most people, but we're so thankful.   Jon Rocke: (10:16 - 10:39) I think also, for us, it was Genesis 2 in the sense that you need to leave everything else and cleave together. We were young. It's hard to believe. When we look back, we think about our kids and our grandkids and would we want that for them, and yet I don't think we'd trade it for the world.   Laura Dugger: (10:40 - 10:52) I love that. And what encouragement do you have for others then who are also wanting to build a foundation of remaining connected and intimate in all the aspects of their own marriage?   Jon Rocke: (10:53 - 12:07) That's one of those things about being intentional. Matthew 19:6, where Christ repeats that adage from Genesis 2, that God created them male and female, they need to leave mother and father and cleave together, but then he adds this, “and no one should tear that apart.” And we often think about that, I think, as other people tearing that apart, and that's true.   But the same goes, we can tear ourselves apart if we're not going to make sure everything else, all other distractions, because they're going to continually come, right? And again, we had kids so early that I think we knew we had to carve that time out, because if we wouldn't have, I'm not sure how that would have worked. We would have been so consumed early. But career, we've just known that we've had to say, if we don't make sure that we're the priority, it's so easy to get lost in all the other things of life that are not bad. Kids are not bad, they're great. And your careers and your work, that's all good. But it can be the enemy of great in a marriage.   Jolene Rocke: (12:07 - 12:32) Yeah, we talked about the fact that this is how we started all those years ago. But a pursuit of God individually actually enhances a pursuit of God together. I'm still in the Word individually. Jon's still in the Word individually. But we also then read and pray together every night. So just this pursuit of God.   Jon Rocke: (12:32 - 13:06) But that wasn't something we did from day one either. I mean, that was a learned scenario where one time we were just kind of convicted of the fact that together we're not taking time to pray and read together. And so, then we just made that part of routine at night. So then again, that made us say we're going to go to bed together. Because if we didn't, then we didn't have that time. That opportunity to pray together and read together has just become a connection point that we wouldn't want to trade.   Laura Dugger: (13:07 - 13:55) I think that's encouraging in so many ways because you've grown into this. And I think for anyone just starting out, it's so helpful to see you didn't let excuses get in the way. It reminds me of a supervisor in college who said, “If you want something done, give it to a busy person.” And I think in a unique way with you two being launched into parenthood nine months after you were married, you didn't have the luxury of being frivolous with your time. And you chose intentionality. And it seems like God really has blessed that and honored it.   Jolene Rocke: (13:55 - 14:05) Yeah and continued it to this day. You're very right. We continue to be busy. And that's still the struggle to combat that with intentional time together. So definitely.   Jon Rocke: (13:55 - 14:31) You talk about seasons in our lives. So, I had to have a hip replacement. So, from like 23 till I had that at 50, I couldn't take long walks. But now we get to walk together, which is a huge privilege. And so, I always think about it. I'm not into exercise to exercise, but I'm into being together. And exercise is a thing we can do together. The other thing we did in our, I guess it was on our 25th. We got a tandem bike. And we love doing our tandem bike.   Jolene Rocke: (14:31 - 16:21) But he wanted a tandem bike right when we got married. And I kept saying, no, I didn't really want to sit on the back and have no control. And not be able to see when I thought I should break or when I wanted to turn.   So, this is something that I often encourage women that are moving into the emptiness season of life. I was driving to church alone. And the Lord really impressed on me that the extreme lavish amount of love that as a homemaker I gave to my children who were now gone, I needed to transfer that to my husband.   I've always loved Jon first and best. But I needed to take even the time commitment. What could I do to show Jon I loved him lavishly the way I tried to my children? So that was a time thing for me. And it was like get a tandem bike. So, I was willing then to get the tandem and sit in the back. And you really do; you're called the stoker. You really do work in the back. You don't just sit there. You work. But I no longer had the control of that. And I am learning to see butterflies land on corn stalks. And I actually love our tandem bike. But God had to grow me. And that was part of my several gifts to him in emptiness period that has helped us keep a strong marriage, I think.   Laura Dugger: (16:21 - 16:30) And isn't that interesting how there's a gift in it for you? Like you offer this sacrifice and yet he's teaching you new things.   Jon Rocke: (16:21 - 16:22) I love it, yeah.   Laura Dugger: (16:23 - 16:45) What would you two say is the biggest personality difference that you've recognized in your own marriage?   Jolene Rocke: (16:45 - 17:22) We just had a personality test yesterday. We have an executive team leadership at Peoria Rescue Ministries, and we had to do personality tests again. And that always is quite glaring to see how different we are. So, we're on two ends of the spectrum. But we can encourage any marriage that that can work and actually maybe be in your favor as long as you work hard at it. So, it just takes work and communication to say, you're very logical thinking, I'm very emotional, so how do we come together then in situations where I'm flustered and he's calm because he at times looks as if you don't care.   Jon Rocke: (17:22 - 17:53) Right, yeah, it can be that. You're highly relational. I'm definitely more process. And I think you're going to learn quickly, especially if you have kids, that all your kids are going to have different personalities. That's the weirdest thing, right? They all grew up in the same home and they're all just completely different. And so being able to help them understand kind of a little bit who they are and how that works has been a good thing that we're not the same.   Jolene Rocke: (17:53 - 20:01) God didn't make one good and one bad. He made all of us different, all in His image, to His glory. We all bring value to the family, and we both bring value to one another as helpmates because I'm able to sharpen Jon in areas that are blind spots for him. He's able to totally sharpen me and calm me in blind spots that are mine. So, I think in a marriage, it's just actually, it's been helpful. Differences are good.   Laura Dugger: (20:01 - 20:25) Oh, I love that. Differences are good. It sounds like God sanctified even your views of that. And so, getting really practical, when was a time when your differences were working against each other or caused conflict? And then how, through maturing and more time together, how do you celebrate and even lean into and appreciate those differences?   Jolene Rocke: (20:25 - 21:00) Well, one thing for sure is we had what we call our valley, where we learned that Psalm 23 wasn't just a funeral psalm, but it's a life psalm, and it's a way of life psalm. So, at that time, I had three family members pass away, and Jon had his family business go down. So, we watched our personalities within that in handling loss and grief. So, here's the optimist really down, and here's realist trying to be cheerleader and be up.   And so actually God did it, and we know without a doubt that God can work beyond personalities and bring you to a point where you can actually support one another well. But there again, it's got to be intentional. It's got to be me saying, we need to sit down now and have a meeting, talk about how you're feeling, whether you want to talk about feelings or not, because I need to know where you're at so that I can help you best.   Jon Rocke: (20:01 - 21:20) Yeah, and on a practical level during that time, I found myself not communicating some of what I thought was either scary or just the long drag of it. And so that was a potential way for us to disconnect because all of this is swirling from at least our livelihood standpoint, swirling in my head, and I'm not going to want to share that. And yet we realized we had to, but then those are not always easy things because Jolene, like most ladies, likes security as an important thing, right? Of just knowing what's going to happen.   In the end, it did make us really, again, Joe mentioned Psalm 23, and if he is our shepherd, what else could we want? We both had to end up clinging to that because our security was gone. Part of our sense of who we were, and particularly me in a family business for three generations, was gone. And so, we certainly had to make sure that our tendencies, like in communication, those kinds of things, we had to work through those during that time.   Laura Dugger: (21:21 - 21:30) Thank you for sharing that. I think that's very relatable to hear about the ups and the downs. And so, do you have any specific stories of a time when you were both in your strengths, and even though they were very different, they worked well together?   Jolene Rocke: (21:30 - 23:12) Yeah, I think that it's the learning what your strengths are that you may not know that God gives you at the time, and that's his grace. So, at the time, for all those years previous to the valley, Jon was the one that pushed me to communicate, and shutting down was not an option, which is what I wanted to do. So, I'd rather just not talk about it and go to bed. And he would push, push, push me to keep communicating, and that we would work through everything before the sun went down, as the Bible says.   Well, in the valley, it was Jon that was shutting down. And suddenly, you know, I had to be the one to push communication. So, this is something I heard on a sermon. A personality is not an excuse for sin. So that just means that I can't say, well, I'm not comfortable in conflict, so I'm not going to communicate and I'm going to shut down. No, you need to push yourself, ask the Lord for help, and go as his helpmate and say, you have to talk about it, you have to tell me, how are you doing? How are you feeling? So, I feel like it's just, it was such a beautiful valley when we look back now.   Laura Dugger: (23:12 - 23:25) Another previous guest had said she noticed when she was in the valley, that's when you're closest to the living water.   Jon Rocke: (23:13 - 24:41) Oh, absolutely. For sure. That's how creeks run, through valleys. Yeah. And I think our parenting, it was helpful for us to have both sides of our personality in parenting because I think we could address situations with our kids from different viewpoints and different ways to think about things, and those were helpful things as well.   But we also, during all sorts of the periods of time in our marriage, we had some little things that just reminded us. We had little words. So one was, you know, “we need to swim back.” So, you can often find yourself, because of a season of time or a season with your kids or whatever on the different islands, and we would just say, we got to swim back. And so that was one of our things that we did. And then we also had a, if we went too long, we just realized we weren't intentional about our intimacy of any kind. It was just basically, “Hey, you didn't kiss me today.” And we used to make that, “No, you didn't kiss me today.” And it was just a thing we tried to do to make sure that we had these little things that just kept us reminded. And so, they were really, they were kind of practical, just little code words for us that made a difference and got our minds back to where it needed to be.   Jolene Rocke: (24:41 - 24:50) Yeah, and in the busyness, that's easy to remember those little swing thoughts.   Laura Dugger: (24:50 - 30:17) Swim back. And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Did you know you can go to college tuition free just by being a team member at Chick-fil-A East Peoria? Yes, you heard that right. Free college education. All Chick-fil-A East Peoria team members in good standing are immediately eligible for a free college education through Point University. Point University is a fully accredited private Christian college located in West Point, Georgia. 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We ask that you also will share by sharing financially, sharing the Savvy Sauce podcast episodes, and sharing a five-star rating and review. You can also share any of our social media posts on Instagram or Facebook. We are grateful for all of it and we just love partnering together with you.   Now, back to the show. What encouragement do you have for healthy communication and healthy conflict resolution in marriage?   Jon Rocke: (30:19 - 31:31) God's grace. It's going to have to take time. You have to find that time together. So, I think it's all about prioritizing that time. I don't necessarily like conflict, but I know in our marriage you can't avoid it. And so, we just had to work through it right away. And so, I would say don't let time simmer conflict because that usually never makes it better.   Certainly, there's a sense of if there's something that's really emotional and maybe you need some space. My problem is I often don't give Jolene that space and that's hard on her, it really is, and sometimes not fair. But in the same vein, for me it felt like I didn't care if I just said, “Well, go ahead and be angry or be whatever or be upset about this or just let's not deal with it.” And she was gracious in pressing in and doing that. But I think don't let time go, just deal with it.   Jolene Rocke: (31:32 - 33:26) And two, the encouragement I think of is that Jon and I tell each other everything, every little thing. And we are very aware of couples that don't. And when Jon was holding back for me in that valley time, I really noticed it and I felt pretty alone. So, if you're always telling each other everything, there should be no secrets. So that just means there might be conflict then. If you're going to tell each other everything, then there might be conflict and you need to be prepared for that.   But that's better than me not saying anything. I sometimes say it's like a teapot, you're simmering or you're spouting. What's the perfect in the middle balance? It's really important to not simmer because you will spout eventually and then that's a harder conflict than if you just kept talking, kept telling every little thing. And so, we do tell each other every little thing.   Laura Dugger: (33:26 - 33:40) Well, and to go with that metaphor, if you have a release valve where that hot air can escape, it sounds like your communication has been that where you can get the water temperature back to a healthy place in the relationship.   Jolene Rocke: (33:40 - 33:55) Yeah, yes. And that takes work. So, I mean, honestly, what encouragement? Don't give up. Just keep going because it's worth it.   Laura Dugger: (33:55 - 34:10) Well, and I'm thinking back. Okay, so you had three kids. They're somewhat close together and you were young. So those years when all of your children were in the home, even elementary school age, that timeframe, what did that look like for communication? How did you still make sure you connected every day?   Jon Rocke: (33:26 - 34:31) Well, then throw in, we went to college after we had kids, which was actually, again, just God's grace and gift to us that we were able to leave town, leave the family business for a while, didn't think we were going to be involved in family business, went out to Indiana, went to school, and we didn't have anybody else but ourselves. And so that, again, was just his gift to us as young. We went in 1980, so that was two years after we were married. So, we already had Janelle at that point, and then Jamie came along soon after. And so, I had school but had to work to support. Jolene had to work and she was mom to two little ones. And so, again, I think it was just those times of making sure that we said nothing else can get in the way of us. Again, another phrase that we just had was, you know, we can get through anything together and nothing apart.   Jolene Rocke: (34:32 - 35:21) And that's not a flippant statement for us. That means we're trying and we're going to find the intentional time, put them to bed early, and make sure on weekends we're connecting well. And that meant sometimes driving with our kids. We'd go on drives. But that's Jon and I being able to talk. And then if they're goofing off in the back seat, it's okay. It's just fine because we actually are having talk time. Drive time has always been great communication time for us.   Laura Dugger: (35:21 - 35:35) That's really helpful, I think, for parents in any season. And you're talking about God's grace. So how has grace, and even forgiveness, benefited your relationship?   Jolene Rocke: (35:35 - 35:40) It's everything to our relationship.   Jon Rocke: (35:22 - 37:12) It's the only thing in everything. The parable of the unjust steward in Matthew 18 and just this idea that if you catch the enormity of your sin, then you can forgive others. And so that has been, I think, an important part of what we do because I love that whole story. Peter is asking that question, “How many times do I have to forgive somebody?” And if you think about a marriage context, well, that's a great question because my guess is it's going to be thousands upon thousands of times for whatever little or big things they are. And he's kind of like loading up. I feel that he's getting ready to say, “I've already forgiven this person six times. So, is it seven? And then after that, there's no more?” And the whole point of that is, oh, you really want to keep numbers, Peter? Here's the numbers. You've been forgiven zillions. And so, what's the little trifle amount that you're not going to forgive? And so, I'm thankful that Jolene is gracious because she's had to forgive me and continues to. We're still learning in a new season of life where now we get to work together, which to me is a really great joy. But it's also a different reality where we have a lot of work talk. Well, that's great. And we love that. But that can't dominate everything either. And so that's another one of those things that we have to figure out how to carve out our time away from work. Even though we enjoy working together and it's really fun, it's a new thing. That can't get in the way of us either.   Jolene Rocke: (37:13 - 40:14) There's got to be grace on both parts that now as I look at him as a boss also. And my husband, you know, I need to give a lot of grace to realize he's working within a momentum around a team and a leadership. But then as he comes home, and I'm very fully aware now of what a hat change that means for a man. That means that he's taking off his hat now and becoming my husband at home. And so, it's grace on both sides as he sees me working even under him or with him as a team. But it's a lot of grace and forgiveness over the years because in the early years as you're raising children, there might be unmet expectations is something I wrote down because I feel like as I think back to this pursuer of God and who I married and I remember those early years thinking, well, wow, he's not leading in devotions in the family. And I'm kind of struggling to find, I need to, as the mom then, pick that up and make sure we're doing with the children some family devotions. Well, that can create controversy. It can be that I would be upset, but I needed to forgive him for the fact that he didn't mean to do that and abdicate that responsibility. He just didn't know. And so, there's so much about being graceful as a wife to say, okay, I understand. That wasn't maybe how you were raised, or you didn't see that modeled in the home. But this is what I would desire for our family. And so, you just keep working and you keep forgiving because we've been forgiven so much, as Jon said. So, we know that. And I think the other key thing then with forgiveness becomes no record keeping, just as love is in 1 Corinthians 13. It doesn't keep the record of wrongs. I don't need to sit around with my time and in my brain and think about how much I've forgiven Jon. I need to think about the fact that God's forgiven so much in me, and he has to forgive me all the time. So, you're on this equal footing with forgiveness rather than trying to harbor a record of wrongs.   Laura Dugger: (40:14 - 40:40) Well, and I think you bring up examples for how it works in our families as well with children. And so, it's clear you two have such a solid marriage and you also have a thriving relationship with your adult children and your grandchildren and all their families. So, I think you just have a lot that you could teach us about raising a family as well. What are you so thankful that you did when your kids were living at home that you're now getting to see the payoff as they're adults?   Jon Rocke: (40:16 - 41:43) We literally grew up with our kids. So sorry for our kids that they had to, you know, grow up with their mom and dad. But that's been a lot of fun too because we did a lot of play. Again, these are just little things for us, these little words. So, as the kids were young, we used to, something that bothered them is I would tell them pretty plainly that I love mom most. And so, kids will always try to drive a wedge between mom and dad. That's just part of the fallen nature of kids. And so, we really communicated early. Our kids will tell you that was a hard lesson for them to learn that they didn't quite understand at that age, right? But they've really come to appreciate that in their own marriages. And then the other thing that we said was we choose you second. So, they knew we choose each other first because you're going to be gone someday and mom's not. And so, but we will always choose you second. So, friends were not a higher priority or social or hobby or anything. You know, the kids were always knew they were second. And so our kids are scattered all across, although we have Jamie and Jonathan here, one family here in Morton that we love to live life with. The others are gone, but I think we're still close in a lot of ways from that.   Jolene Rocke: (41:45 - 45:27) Yeah, I think we're a close family because we have stuck together through not just the ups, but the downs, but we're fun loving. Jon and I like games. We like to do stuff, and we like to go places. We prioritized vacation when they were little so that we were all together in an intentional environment that was away from home. And so, we were together, they enjoyed going to Florida every year and it was always what we called just happenstances that were so adverse. It wasn't your ideal. And so, we did not have ideal things happen on any trip, actually, that we go on. So, what we decided to call them is adventures. So, we intentionally took adverse situations, whether that's a flat tire, going to Florida with all the kids and it's the middle of the night and we're all sitting at a gas station on the curb waiting for the next tire to get fixed. It's just, we just always called them adventures and I'm not sorry for that. That's something our kids are passing on to their kids when things happen. Our son in particular, Jordan, his family seems to have a lot of adventures, like Jon and I have had. And that's what they call them to their children. So, I'm not sorry for the word adventure. Jon taught me a saying that he used to say, you love your children, even if you don't like them or you will lose them. And that was really important in the teenage years. When one of our children was struggling in junior high, I knew even if I didn't like the way this one was acting, I needed to just keep loving them as scripture says, right? Not if they're perfect, but all the time. And so, we didn't lose her through that time, I think because there was so much intentional loving beyond the liking. The other thing that I would just mention with that to encourage any, any mom or dad, I picked up the book, The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman and had this daughter read it with me so that we can learn, how do we love each other? Well, through this time when it feels like we don't really like each other that well. So, well, wow. I had no idea. It was physical touch for you. And I, I thought it was the acts of service. And you would notice that I picked up your room because I knew you had a hard day in a test at school. Well, there was never any knowledge or awareness that I did that for her. But whenever I put my arms around her and gave her a giant hug and wouldn't let her go until she melted in my arms, I realized, yes, that's what she, that's how I can love her best.   Laura Dugger: (45:27 - 45:50) That is awesome to hear that story. It is helpful to have actionable things that we can replicate. And so, I am going to link in the show notes to a few of our episodes that may be beneficial. If people want to take that concept a step further, Dr. Gary Chapman has been a previous guest. I'll link to those. And then also Katie Mueller talked about traveling with your family and the lessons that the Lord teaches his children about traveling in the Bible and how that applies to us. That's great. So, if you're willing, will you share anything more about the honeymoon? I'm so curious now.   Jon Rocke: (45:27 - 46:35) We will. I feel like we're taking too much time here.   Jolene Rocke: (46:35 - 46:36) I don't know, but well, we knew that this was setting the tone for marriage as far as adventures.   Jon Rocke: (46:36 - 46:37) But well, the very first off we, we got on a plane. So, we got married on a Sunday and we were flying out down to Florida on Sunday night. We got to Atlanta where we were supposed to connect to another plane. We were supposed to go to Fort Myers, Florida and there had been a storm and, and they were rushing to get us on the right flights or to get us to the next flight. And they put us on the wrong plane. You know, this was back in the day where that could happen. Couldn't happen today, but put us on the wrong plane. We ended up in Melbourne, Florida at midnight last flight of the night. You know, we're newlyweds. We're supposed to be, you know, on our honeymoon. They put us up at a Holiday Inn Express with the crew and said, you know, we'll get you out a flight. You have to be up at 4 a.m. And so, you know, I was, our first night was not necessarily what you would, you know, call the most romantic night that we could have. And then do you want to tell the second story of our honeymoon?   Jolene Rocke: (46:36 - 46:37) The canoe trip.   Jon Rocke: (46:37 - 46:37) Yeah.   Jolene Rocke: (46:37 - 47:28) The canoe trip is, I have such bad allergies to many things. And so, Jon knew that because we tried to go horseback riding and I thought I'd be okay because it was outdoors, but the dander on the horse made me just blow up into a big ball on my face. And so, he realized how much I have a problem with allergies, but we decided to go canoeing in a very narrow mangrove swamp. That was really depleted in, in its depth that day. And so, we were canoeing along, but we, we got into the side of the mangrove trees and out came a Hornets, Hornets out of this giant nest and stung me all over my back.   Jon Rocke: (47:28 - 47:50) And so Jon went into, I'm like thinking that my six day, you know, marriage is over. My wife, who's so allergic, we're half hour out on our journey and I'm, she's like going to die on the spot. Cause I figured if she's so allergic to animals, then this many, you know, bee stings or wasp stings, she's, you know, she's dead.   Jolene Rocke: (47:52 - 48:12) So he jumps, jumps out. Yeah. First, the truth is he took my top off and started taking mud from the bottom of the creek and, just plasters me with mud on my back. And then he jumps out of the canoe and starts running the, the canoe. Cause it was pretty shallow.   Jon Rocke: (48:12 - 48:31) I decided it was going to be quicker to get her back in time. I figured I had about 30 minutes, you know, to, to try to get her to some medical attention. And so, yeah, so I'm running the canoe back instead of paddling it. Cause I knew I could get faster. Well, then I cut my foot on a shoal and we're a mess.   Jolene Rocke: (48:31 - 48:37) I mean, he had it. What? Like six-inch stitches. So, we ended up in the ER here.   Jon Rocke: (48:37 - 48:38) Yeah.   Jolene Rocke: (48:38 - 48:52) Both of us with me, with stings, Jon, with a cut. And, and that was just the start of the honeymoon that we called a giant adventure adventure since it wasn't great.   Jon Rocke: (48:52 - 48:55) It's been a 44-year adventure.   Laura Dugger: (48:55 - 49:15) You did start with quite the adventure. I love that. And I think the husbands' listening will appreciate, of course you took their top off first.   Jon Rocke: (49:03 - 49:04) That's right.   Jolene Rocke: (49:05 - 49:07) It was a little embarrassing.   Jon Rocke: (49:08 - 49:10) It was a good thing. Nobody else.   Jolene Rocke: (49:10 - 49:15) Nobody else.   Laura Dugger: (49:15 - 49:25) Sorry. I had to tease on that part, but through various seasons, how did you prioritize one another above your kids, your career and your own families of origin?   Jon Rocke: (49:25 - 50:35) We just knew we had to have time. So, a couple of things. I mean, we had a fortunate built in mechanism too, to take trips together. So, within our family business, we had conferences and such that we had to attend. And so, we made that a priority that we were going to do those together. I wasn't going to just go by myself. And so, a couple of times a year, and now that we're working together, it can feel like life blurs between everything. So, while we're at home, we're still talking about work and we're still dealing with ministry. And the other thing is with our kids away, a lot of our trip time is spent with our kids. So, we have to make that, that's gotta be a priority, but we realized we still need just our time away. and when we got, we went down to Florida and we just said, okay, no work talk for these five days, you know, no work talk. And it was pretty fun because most of the time Jolene broke that rule. And I would say, wait a minute, no work talk.   Jolene Rocke: (50:36 - 50:36) It's true.   Jon Rocke: (50:37 - 51:09) It's very true. But those, so trips were a big thing for us, and they don't have to be a big deal trip, but a weekend away to break the routine. You know, the example of that was, that's why God created festivals and holidays were to break routine and to have a stop in our everyday lives. And so, he knew we needed that to reconnect with him. Well, we know we need that in our marriages is to break the routine.   Jolene Rocke: (51:10 - 52:17) Very intentionally. Jon was wise enough to know we needed that as even as young as he was. Can you imagine the volumes of love that that spoke to me, that he wanted me to go with him on the trips. So that meant so much to me. And it still does today because he always wants me to go with him. And then I, I just have over the years, like when the kids were at home, that was days of rest for me when he was in meetings. But as I started growing too, as a person and not needing as much rest, I also would go into all the meetings because I liked the learning. But even as we went through college, like I just was always a part of the learning. And, and I liked that, but Jon included me. That said a lot to me.   Laura Dugger: (52:18 - 52:25) And I love your companionship, how you prioritize that. What advice do you have for all of us married couples as we seek to grow as one rather than start to grow parallel or even worse, start to grow apart from one another?   Jon Rocke: (52:18 - 52:47) Yeah, I think find things to do together. That's part of how even the biking, the tandem thing came about. Cause if we went out on bikes on our individual bikes, then I'm like, I'm wanting to run ahead. Well, you know, and then, and she's like, you know, you're not getting very much exercise or whatever the case may be. But then on a tandem, we could accomplish everything together. And so, finding some of those things.   Jolene Rocke: (52:47 - 54:56) So there's seasons of time when you're raising your children, like that, Jon was biking by himself and with some other men in a fast pace for extreme exercise. And I was doing my thing. And so, I'm not saying that hobbies apart from one another are negative, but for us, they've been mostly together. And so that just means that even there was a period that yes, Jon would go out golfing, not in excess, but when our kids were around and little, I think I was communicating even in that, that you don't just go off golfing every Saturday and leave your wife with the kids on a Saturday because you now that's your day off work. No, it's, we never get a day off work. So, you need to kick in at home too. So, there was this balance, I think is a really good word for how do you, how do you do like even individual hobbies and exercise even, but then mostly we're always trying to figure out how we can do things together. So, taking a back seat, literally on a tandem bike and knowing that that was going to help our marriage to be together. I also said recently now in a decade ago, I will learn how to golf. And so that, that just meant, again, I have no, no interest that much in golfing. I thought I loved riding the car around and being outside, but now it's like, yes, I will learn to golf if that means that that's another hobby and a sport and an activity that we can do together. So, we started a Friday night golf time, just Jon and I, it's a date night of golf and Dairy Queen supper. We call it Dairy Queen supper because we just don't eat supper, but we eat Dairy Queen after we go. So there again, there's just like, what are, what can we do together? And we're still doing date nights because it's just, we actually are really good friends still.   Jon Rocke: (54:57 - 55:51) Well, I think like I say, every season has been different for us. There was a time where kids were intense and Joe was a phenomenal mom and, was totally engaged in that. And you're in your career phase too. And so, all those things are competing. Well, then we've come back in the last five years and now we work together. So that's a different whole different dynamic. And so that's why we needed, you know, yeah, we need a golf and Dairy Queen night because we just need to get away from the intensity of our work relationship, you know, and take that break on our tandems. We usually ride for breakfast. So, most things have to do with food. It's not about exercise. It's about how to eat. So that's kind of just part of what we do.   Laura Dugger: (55:51 - 56:19) I love it though. That's an interest for all people. It's something that we have to do multiple times a day. Well, what do you want to leave us with? Whether it's a challenge or scripture, it can be anything, but how would you like to wind down our time together today?   Jolene Rocke: (56:19 - 56:30) I'm going to just say to encourage everyone. Our marriage has taken compromise and it's taken communication and it pays off in the end.   Jon Rocke: (56:19 - 57:11) You know, Ephesians 5 is really an important understanding that it's submitting to each other. The idea of wives submit to your husband, you're not catching the whole picture of that. If that's what your focus is, because it's husband loves you, love your wives as Christ loved the church. And so, and it starts the whole section off with submit to one another. And so, we have to be just intentional and committed. One of my favorite sayings is from Augustine, who says, when he was in prayer one time says to God, “Command what you will, but give what you command.” And so, when I think about our marriage, that's what grace is all about. Yes, it takes intentionality and commitment, but that only comes by his grace.   Jolene Rocke: (57:11 - 57:55) And one other thing that I thought of is that we always taught our kids to remember whose they are. And that just means that if you do that within a marriage too, and you're remembering that you're the Lord's, you're made in his image, then you relate and you will love the other one better. Even as you know your identity in Christ first, you will love your mate better.   Laura Dugger: (57:55 - 58:05) Amen. And you too may know we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for both of you today, what is your savvy sauce?   Jon Rocke: (57:56 - 58:07) You know, I just say submission is a good thing. It's not associated that way, but in a marriage it's such a good thing.   Jolene Rocke: (58:08 - 59:13) So that's both submitting to each other, not just the wife being clamped down. But our savvy sauce would be that sacrifice and submission are good things. They're not bad words. So, in our experience, a savvy sauce for our 44-year-old marriage is that sacrifice and submission have been very good things on both of our parts.   Laura Dugger: (59:13 - 59:20) Well, you clearly live this out, and you've been great role models to Mark and to me and our family. You love one another with such an intensity, and you love your Lord that way, and you love your children that way in your community. And I just see the way that He's had this ripple out from being intentional in the most key important parts of life, and that He's really blessed you in that, but He's also blessed all of us around you. So, thank you for sharing your journey with us. Thank you so much for being my guest.   Jolene Rocke: (59:20 - 59:22) It's been so great to be here with you. Thanks for asking, Laura.   Jon Rocke: (59:13 - 59:27) Yeah, it's been a privilege for us just to take the time to reflect again and realize the challenges, but really just celebrate what God has done through His grace in us and our marriage. So, thanks.   Laura Dugger: (59:27 - 1:03:10) One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.   We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.   That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.   This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”   So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.   Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.   Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.   And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.   First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.   You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.   We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.   And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.   And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.