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Send us a textThe Nuremberg Trials were the first attempt at coming to terms with Nazi criminality. While there was a legal component to this, there was also a psychological element. What made Nazi minds tick? In this episode, I talk with Jack El-Hai about his work on psychiatrist Douglas Kelley who worked with the Nazi defendants at Nuremberg. This book also forms the basis for the new film Nuremberg. Jack El-Hai is an author with a particular interest in medical history. El-Hai, Jack. The Nazi and the Psychiatrist: Hermann Goring, Dr. Douglas M. Kelley, and a Fatal Meeting of Minds at the End of WWII (2013)Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at holocausthistorypod@gmail.comThe Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.
November 2025 marks the 80th anniversary of the Nuremberg Trials in Germany at the end of World War II. In episode 79 Michon and Taquiena Boston aka The Boston Sisters talk with award-winning journalist and author Jack El-Hai about the James Vanderbilt film NUREMBERG based on El-Hai's thought-provoking book, "The Nazi and the Psychiatrist. "Jack El-Hai's book and the film explore the psychological dynamics between Nazi second-in-command Hermann Göring (Russell Crowe) and American psychiatrist Dr. Douglas M. Kelley (Rami Malek). The book and film delve into the nature of evil, the Nuremberg trials, and Dr. Kelley's findings from his examinations of the Nazi prisoners that raise questions about the potential for fascism in any and every society. The discussion also touches on the importance of understanding historical events and the role of popular history in reflecting on the present.After their conversation with Jack El-Hai, Michon and Taquiena share their thoughts about “The Nazi and the Psychiatrist,” and NUREMBERG.Spoiler alert: Key moments in the story of the 1945 Nuremberg Trials, and Dr. Douglas M. Kelley's story, as seen in the film NUREMBERG, are shared in this podcast. ADVISORY: Be advised, the history discussed in this podcast includes themes of suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting 988, or visit their website (988lifeline.org). TIMESTAMPS0:03 - Intro and Overview of Podcast2:34 - Jack El-Hai background journalistic accomplishments4:11 - THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST Book and NUREMBERG Film Synopsis9:10 - Personal Impact of Writing THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST13:58 - Hermann Göring's and Dr. Douglas Kelley's Relationship18:51 - NUREMBERG From Page to Screen25:24 - Generic Podcast Break25:59 - Historical Context and Psychological Evaluations of Nuremberg Prisoners29:17 - Use of Rorschach tests30:04 - Competing Perspectives and Roles of Key Figure41:13 - Legacy and Relevance of Dr. Kelley's Work45:18 - Popular History and Its Role in Understanding the Past48:45 - The Nature of Evil and Fascism56:32 - Final Thoughts on NUREMBERG Film and THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST (Michon and Taquiena)1:04:52 - Recommendations1:06:10 - Disclaimer------SUBSCRIBE to HISTORICAL DRAMA WITH THE BOSTON SISTERS® on your favorite podcast platformENJOY past podcasts and bonus episodesSIGN UP for our mailing listSUPPORT this podcast SHOP THE PODCAST on our affiliate bookstoreBuy us a Coffee! You can support by buying a coffee ☕ here — buymeacoffee.com/historicaldramasistersThank you for listening!
The film Nuremberg, to be released November 7th, 2025 is an American drama written, co-produced and edited by James Vanderbilt. It is based on the 2013 book, THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST by Jack El Hai..In 1945, after his capture at the end of the Second World War, Hermann Göring arrived at an American-run detention center in war-torn Luxembourg, accompanied by sixteen suitcases and a red hatbox. The suitcases contained all manner of paraphernalia: medals, gems, two cigar cutters, silk underwear, a hot water bottle, and the equivalent of 1 million in cash. Hidden in a coffee can, a set of brass vials housed glass capsules containing a clear liquid and a white precipitate: potassium cyanide. Joining Göring in the detention center were the elite of the captured Nazi regime. Grand Admiral Dönitz; armed forces commander Wilhelm Keitel and his deputy Alfred Jodl; the mentally unstable Robert Ley; the suicidal Hans Frank; the pornographic propagandist Julius Streicher. Fifty-two senior Nazis in all, of whom the dominant figure was Göring.To ensure that the villainous captives were fit for trial at Nuremberg, the US army sent an ambitious army psychiatrist, Captain Douglas M. Kelley, to supervise their mental well-being during their detention. Kelley realized he was being offered the professional opportunity of a lifetime: to discover a distinguishing trait among these arch-criminals that would mark them as psychologically different from the rest of humanity. So began a remarkable relationship between Kelley and his captors, told here for the first time with unique access to Kelley's long-hidden papers and medical records.Kelley's was a hazardous quest, dangerous because against all his expectations he began to appreciate and understand some of the Nazi captives, none more so than the former Reichsmarshall, Hermann Göring. Evil had its charms.Joining me to discuss, NUREMBERG and the book the film is based on THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST: Hermann Goring, Dr. Douglas M. Kelley, and a Fatal Meeting of Minds at the End of WWll—Jack El-Hai
Hryllingurinn á Gaza og grimmdarverk Ísraels hafa verið heimsbyggðinni ljós í bráðum tvö ár. Á síðustu misserum hefur afstaða stjórnvalda víða um heim harðnað mjög og nú eru evrópskir þjóðarleiðtogar farnir að kalla hernað Ísraela þjóðarmorð. En hvernig er þjóðarmorð skilgreint og hvað breytist ef hernaður Ísraela er flokkaður sem þjóðarmorð? Í seinni hluta þáttarins ætlum við að huga að geðheilsu þeirra sem fremja voðaverk. Kveikjan er bók sem kom út 2013 sem lýsir sambandi geðlæknisins Douglas M. Kelley við Hermann Göring sem honum var gert að meta í aðdraganda Nuremberg réttarhaldanna. Saga sem nú er búið að gera bíómynd um, þar sem Russel Crowe bregður sér í vel fóðrað gervi Görings.
La segunda guerra mundial fue uno de los eventos más trágicos de la historia de nuestra civilización. Se estima que murieron entre 70 y 80 millones de personas. Adolf Hitler, puso el planeta en jaque. Pero una sola persona no puede cambiar el mundo. Hitler estuvo rodeado de un sinfín de colaboradores. Entre todos ellos, tal vez el más importante fuera su segundo al mando y sucesor: Hermann Goering. Goering sobrevivió a la segunda guerra mundial y fue capturado por el bando aliado para ser juzgado por sus crímenes. Durante casi un año y medio, Goering estuvo encerrado en una celda aguardando su juicio. Durante todo este tiempo recibió visitas de un psiquiatra, Douglas M. Kelley. Hoy tenemos acceso a las notas e informes que escribió el psiquiatra durante estas sesiones. En el episodio de hoy del podcast XYZ vamos a acercarnos al final de la segunda guerra mundial y vamos a conocer la personalidad, los miedos y los deseos de un Hermann Goering a punto de ser juzgado por la historia. Además, lo vamos a hacer a través de los ojos del que fue su psiquiatra, un hombre que se enfrentó solo a una de las mentes más despiadadas del régimen nazi, en una minúscula celda y que se asomó a una verdad que le cambió para siempre. ¿Te interesa? Adelante
The 1982 movie Frances tells the story of Hollywood actress Frances Farmer and how her struggles with mental health issues affected her career. We'll be joined by writer and author Jack El-Hai to learn about the film's historical accuracy. Get Jack's Books The Lobotomist: A Maverick Medical Genius and His Tragic Quest to Rid the World of Mental Illness: https://www.el-hai.com/the-lobotomist The Nazi and the Psychiatrist: Hermann Göring, Dr. Douglas M. Kelley, and a Fatal Meeting of Minds at the End of WWII: https://www.el-hai.com/the-nazi-the-psychiatrist See More of Jack's Work Special thanks to podcastguests.com for helping to facilitate this interview. Did you enjoy this episode? You can find the transcript and show notes for this episode at: https://www.basedonatruestorypodcast.com/197/ Support our sponsors: https://www.basedonatruestorypodcast.com/advertisers Or get ad-free content and exclusive bonus content by supporting the show directly: https://basedonatruestorypodcast.com/support/ Get a peek at upcoming episodes with the email newsletter: https://www.basedonatruestorypodcast.com/newsletter/ Want a chance to be heard on the show? Leave a voicemail at +1 (405) 334-4672.
Der US-amerikanische Militärpsychiater Douglas M. Kelley hatte einst in Nürnberg die Elite des Naziregimes auf ihre psychische Verfassung untersucht. Er wollte das Böse im Menschen erforschen. Im vorliegenden Buch werden die Begegnungen mit den Nazis geschildert.| Aus dem Amerikanischen übersetzt von Henriette Heise, Verlag Die Andere Bibliothek. 320 Seiten, 22 Euro.| Rezension von Stefan Berkholz.
Writer Jack El-Hai worries about his own state of mind when he spends time in the files of the psychiatrist who examined Nazi leaders. Jack El-Hai is the author of The Nazi and the Psychiatrist: Hermann Goring, Dr. Douglas M. Kelley, and a Fatal Meeting of Minds at the End of WWII (PublicAffairs Books) and The Lobotomist: A Maverick Medical Genius and His Tragic Quest to Rid the World of Mental Illness (Wiley). He has contributed articles and essays on science, medicine, and history to The Atlantic, Wired, Scientific American Mind, and many other magazines. Jack teaches nonfiction in the MFA program in creative writing at Augsburg College and lives in Minneapolis. Help keep us going! If you love the podcast, please donate here: http://www.patreon.com/thestorycollider Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In 1945, after his capture at the end of the Second World War, Hermann Göring arrived at an American-run detention center in war-torn Luxembourg, accompanied by sixteen suitcases and a red hatbox. The suitcases contained all manner of paraphernalia: medals, gems, two cigar cutters, silk underwear, a hot water bottle, and the equivalent of $1 million in cash. Hidden in a coffee can, a set of brass vials housed glass capsules containing a clear liquid and a white precipitate: potassium cyanide. Joining Göring in the detention center were the elite of the captured Nazi regime—Grand Admiral Dönitz; armed forces commander Wilhelm Keitel and his deputy Alfred Jodl; the mentally unstable Robert Ley; the suicidal Hans Frank; the ographic propagandist Julius Streicher—fifty-two senior Nazis in all, of whom the dominant figure was Göring.To ensure that the villainous captives were fit for trial at Nuremberg, the US army sent an ambitious army psychiatrist, Captain Douglas M. Kelley, to supervise their mental well-being during their detention. Kelley realized he was being offered the professional opportunity of a lifetime: to discover a distinguishing trait among these arch-criminals that would mark them as psychologically different from the rest of humanity. So began a remarkable relationship between Kelley and his captors, told here for the first time with unique access to Kelley’s long-hidden papers and medical records.Kelley’s was a hazardous quest, dangerous because against all his expectations he began to appreciate and understand some of the Nazi captives, none more so than the former Reichsmarshall, Hermann Göring. Evil had its charms. THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST-Jack El-Hai
Jack El-Hai joined me today for a conversation about his latest book, The Nazi and the Psychiartrist: Hermann Goring, Dr. Douglas M. Kelley, and a Fatal Meeting of Minds at the End of WWII. Mr. El-Hai’s book deals with the top 22 surviving Nazi officials and Dr. Kelley, an American Army Psychiatrist who was placed in charge of their mental health. His job was to ready the men for the Nuremberg Trails, but saw an opportunity to discover, if it existed, the Nazi personality. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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