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Panel: Charles Max Wood Joe Eames John Papa Alyssa Nicoll Special Guest:  Michael Giambalvo In this episode, Chuck talks with special guest Michael Giambalvo who is an author of the book titled, “Testing Angular Applications.” This book can be purchased through Amazon, Manning Publications, among other sites, too. The panelists and the guest talk about different types of tests, such as end-to-end testing and unit testing. They also talk about Angular, Java, Mocha, Test Café, and much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: AngularBootCamp.Com 0:53 – Chuck: Our panel is John Papa, Joe Eames, Alyssa Nicoll, and myself. My new show is the DevRev – check it out, please! 1:26 – Guest: I am a contributing author to our new book, which is about Angular. 1:56 – Chuck: How is it like to write with multiple people? 2:04 – Guest: Yep it’s hard b/c we are in different areas. Back in the 2.0 days, Jesse was writing a book. He was talking about typescript and components. Craig made friends with Jesse and they were talking about the book he was writing. Then we all jumped in to get in finished. We all had areas that we were specialists in! 3:21 – Alyssa: If you break it up that makes sense. 3:31 – Guest. 3:40 – Panel: Pick different words and go around the room. 3:51 – Panel: You write the first ½ of a sentence and then you write the other ½ of the sentence! 4:10 – Guest: You have these big word documents and go back-and-forth. 4:36 – Alyssa: Editing and then pass it back-and-forth – how does that work? 4:46 – Guest: It’s like 8 pass backs-and-forth. 5:35 – Guest: The editing was the main issue – it took forever! 5:50 – Chuck: We were going to co-author a book and we didn’t. Chuck: If you could break down the book in 4 core topics what would they be? Elevator pitch? What is the starting knowledge? 6:18 – Guest: We expect you to know Angular Intro and that’s it! 6:43 – Chuck: What are the principles? 6:50 – Guest: We talk about the testing component. We highlight the benefits of using Angular vs. Angular.js. That shows up in the book a lot. It’s very example driven. 7:28 – Chuck: We have been talking about testing quite a bit on the show lately. 8:22 – Chuck: Do you see people using the testing in regards to the pyramid? 8:33 – Guest: I am not a huge fan of the pyramid. Some questions I ask are: Does it run quickly? Is it reliable? To give you some background I work on Google Club Platform. 10:21 – The guest talks about “Page Level Integration Tests.” 11:31 – Alyssa. 11:50 – Chuck: After your explanation after writing your book I’m sure it’s a breeze now. Knowing these tests and having the confidence is great. 12:13 – Guest: Tools like Cypress is very helpful. Web Driver Testing, too. 12:43 – Chuck: Where do people start? What do you recommend? Do they start at Protractor or do they come down to unit tests? 13:02 – Guest: Finding the balance is important. 14:30 – Chuck: Check out a past episode that we’ve done. 14:40 – Panel asks a question about tools such as Test Café and Cypress. 14:50 – Guest: I really don’t know Test Café. There is a long story in how all of these fit together. The guest talks about Selenium, Cypress, Safari, Edge, Chrome, Firefox, and Puppeteer! 19:24 – Chuck: Does it work in Electron as well, too? 19:26 – Guest: Good question but I don’t know the answer. 19:39 – Chuck: Maybe a listener could write a comment and tell us. 19:43 – Panel: I’ve used Protractor for many years. I like the explanation that you just gave. The great thing about Protractor is that you can... 20:29 – Guest: We wanted to explain the difficulty of Protractor in this book. Guest: You have this test running in Node but then you have your app running in the browser. You have these 2 different run times. You might have to run them separately and there is tons of complexity. 21:15 – Panel: As I am coding you have this visual browser on one side, and then on the other side you have... 22:22 – Guest asks the panelists a question. 22:32 – Panel: I have only used it for a few months and a few several apps but haven’t had those issues, yet. 22:55 – Guest: I haven’t heard of Test Café at all. 23:05 – Alyssa: Is the book online? 23:13 – Guest: It’s available through Manning Publications and Amazon. I think we have some codes to giveaway! 23:34 – Chuck: Yeah, we are working on those codes and giveaways. We have mentioned about 5 or 6 tools – are you worried about your book going out of date? 24:05 – Guest: Sure that is something we are worried about. When editing took a long time to get through that was one of my thoughts. The guest talks about Selenium, control flow, Protractor, 25:45 – Guest (continues): These new features were coming out while the book was coming out – so there’s that. What’s this thing about control flow and why this matters to you, etc. We were able to add that into the book, which is good. We were able to get those instructions out there. Books have a delay to them. 26:47 – Chuck: We talked about this in JavaScript Jabber. This guest talked about this and he is from Big Nerd Ranch. At what point do you have this breaking point: This isn’t a good fit for Test Café or Selenium BUT a good fit for Mocha or Jest? 27:27 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 28:04 – Guest: Do you have a reason why you would switch testing tools? 28:12 – Chuck. 28:41 – Guest: That’s the tradeoff as you move down the ladder. 29:43 – Panel: If you want to trigger an action that isn’t triggerable? 29:50 – Guest answers the question. 30:07 – Panel. 30:20 – Chuck. 30:33 – Guest: You can access code. Usually something in a workflow will make it happen. You have to fall back on some type of UI sort of thing. It’s almost like doing Tetris! I’ve never had to directly call something. I am not the best one to answer that. 31:16 – Panel: It’s like a weird mix of tests. 31:29 – Panelist is talking about unit testing and other tests. 31:55 – Chuck asks a question. 32:02 – Guest: It depends on the scale of your project. 32:28 – Chuck: Do you guys use a test coverage tool or on the side of: everything should run and then test if there is a bug. 32:43 – Guest: Coverage isn’t the full story. 33:26 – Panel: You said you weren’t a fan of the testing pyramid – can you explain why? 33:43 – Guest: I think it turns too much prescriptive. Guest: I think there are bigger concerns out there and the test pyramid is an over-simplification. 35:22 – Panel: What’s the difference between fast and slow testing? 35:28 – Guest: It really depends on your level of knowledge. If your test suite runs more than twenty minutes to an hour that is probably too slow! 36:03 – Alyssa. 36:09 – Chuck. 36:16 – Alyssa: There is no way that 20 minutes equals that! 36:26 – Guest: 20 minutes is the extreme limit.  36:51 – Chuck. 37:11 – Panel: Any new Twitter news on Trump? 37:21 – Panelist talks about test suites! 37:40 – Panelists and guests go back-and-forth. 38:11 – Chuck: Do you have any recommendations for the unit testing? Keeping it small or not so much? 38:29 – Guest: Think: What is this test asking? Don’t write tests that won’t fail if some other tests could have caught them. 39:04 – Alyssa: That’s smart! 39:09 – Guest continues. 39:28 – Chuck: What else to jump on? Chuck: Do you write your tests in typescript or in Java? 39:48 – Guest answers the question. He mentions Python, typescript, and more! 40:17 – Alyssa. 40:22 – Guest continues. 40:46 – Alyssa: How many people worked on that project? 40:50 – Guest: 2 or 3 framework engineers who did the tooling. About 20 people total for tooling to make sure everything worked. 41:18 – Panelist asks a question. 41:22 – Guest: About 20 minutes! 42:35 – Guest wants to talk about the topic: end-to-end testing! 44:59 – Chuck: Let’s do picks! 45:09 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly! Links: Vue jQuery Angular JavaScript Python React Cypress Puppeteer – GitHub Protractor Test Mocha.js Selenium C# GitHub: testcafe Istanbul “Protractor: A New Hope” – YouTube Video – Michael Giambalvo & Craig Nishina Book: “Testing Angular Applications” – Manning Publications Michael’s GitHub Michael’s Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Cache Fly Picks: Alyssa Fantastic Beasts Joe Skyward War of the Spider Queen Luxur - board game Testing Angular with Cypress.io Space Cadets Sonar Family Charles The DevRev Podcast Gary Vee Audio Experience Michael Scale Captain Sonar

Panel: Charles Max Wood Joe Eames John Papa Alyssa Nicoll Special Guest:  Michael Giambalvo In this episode, Chuck talks with special guest Michael Giambalvo who is an author of the book titled, “Testing Angular Applications.” This book can be purchased through Amazon, Manning Publications, among other sites, too. The panelists and the guest talk about different types of tests, such as end-to-end testing and unit testing. They also talk about Angular, Java, Mocha, Test Café, and much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: AngularBootCamp.Com 0:53 – Chuck: Our panel is John Papa, Joe Eames, Alyssa Nicoll, and myself. My new show is the DevRev – check it out, please! 1:26 – Guest: I am a contributing author to our new book, which is about Angular. 1:56 – Chuck: How is it like to write with multiple people? 2:04 – Guest: Yep it’s hard b/c we are in different areas. Back in the 2.0 days, Jesse was writing a book. He was talking about typescript and components. Craig made friends with Jesse and they were talking about the book he was writing. Then we all jumped in to get in finished. We all had areas that we were specialists in! 3:21 – Alyssa: If you break it up that makes sense. 3:31 – Guest. 3:40 – Panel: Pick different words and go around the room. 3:51 – Panel: You write the first ½ of a sentence and then you write the other ½ of the sentence! 4:10 – Guest: You have these big word documents and go back-and-forth. 4:36 – Alyssa: Editing and then pass it back-and-forth – how does that work? 4:46 – Guest: It’s like 8 pass backs-and-forth. 5:35 – Guest: The editing was the main issue – it took forever! 5:50 – Chuck: We were going to co-author a book and we didn’t. Chuck: If you could break down the book in 4 core topics what would they be? Elevator pitch? What is the starting knowledge? 6:18 – Guest: We expect you to know Angular Intro and that’s it! 6:43 – Chuck: What are the principles? 6:50 – Guest: We talk about the testing component. We highlight the benefits of using Angular vs. Angular.js. That shows up in the book a lot. It’s very example driven. 7:28 – Chuck: We have been talking about testing quite a bit on the show lately. 8:22 – Chuck: Do you see people using the testing in regards to the pyramid? 8:33 – Guest: I am not a huge fan of the pyramid. Some questions I ask are: Does it run quickly? Is it reliable? To give you some background I work on Google Club Platform. 10:21 – The guest talks about “Page Level Integration Tests.” 11:31 – Alyssa. 11:50 – Chuck: After your explanation after writing your book I’m sure it’s a breeze now. Knowing these tests and having the confidence is great. 12:13 – Guest: Tools like Cypress is very helpful. Web Driver Testing, too. 12:43 – Chuck: Where do people start? What do you recommend? Do they start at Protractor or do they come down to unit tests? 13:02 – Guest: Finding the balance is important. 14:30 – Chuck: Check out a past episode that we’ve done. 14:40 – Panel asks a question about tools such as Test Café and Cypress. 14:50 – Guest: I really don’t know Test Café. There is a long story in how all of these fit together. The guest talks about Selenium, Cypress, Safari, Edge, Chrome, Firefox, and Puppeteer! 19:24 – Chuck: Does it work in Electron as well, too? 19:26 – Guest: Good question but I don’t know the answer. 19:39 – Chuck: Maybe a listener could write a comment and tell us. 19:43 – Panel: I’ve used Protractor for many years. I like the explanation that you just gave. The great thing about Protractor is that you can... 20:29 – Guest: We wanted to explain the difficulty of Protractor in this book. Guest: You have this test running in Node but then you have your app running in the browser. You have these 2 different run times. You might have to run them separately and there is tons of complexity. 21:15 – Panel: As I am coding you have this visual browser on one side, and then on the other side you have... 22:22 – Guest asks the panelists a question. 22:32 – Panel: I have only used it for a few months and a few several apps but haven’t had those issues, yet. 22:55 – Guest: I haven’t heard of Test Café at all. 23:05 – Alyssa: Is the book online? 23:13 – Guest: It’s available through Manning Publications and Amazon. I think we have some codes to giveaway! 23:34 – Chuck: Yeah, we are working on those codes and giveaways. We have mentioned about 5 or 6 tools – are you worried about your book going out of date? 24:05 – Guest: Sure that is something we are worried about. When editing took a long time to get through that was one of my thoughts. The guest talks about Selenium, control flow, Protractor, 25:45 – Guest (continues): These new features were coming out while the book was coming out – so there’s that. What’s this thing about control flow and why this matters to you, etc. We were able to add that into the book, which is good. We were able to get those instructions out there. Books have a delay to them. 26:47 – Chuck: We talked about this in JavaScript Jabber. This guest talked about this and he is from Big Nerd Ranch. At what point do you have this breaking point: This isn’t a good fit for Test Café or Selenium BUT a good fit for Mocha or Jest? 27:27 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 28:04 – Guest: Do you have a reason why you would switch testing tools? 28:12 – Chuck. 28:41 – Guest: That’s the tradeoff as you move down the ladder. 29:43 – Panel: If you want to trigger an action that isn’t triggerable? 29:50 – Guest answers the question. 30:07 – Panel. 30:20 – Chuck. 30:33 – Guest: You can access code. Usually something in a workflow will make it happen. You have to fall back on some type of UI sort of thing. It’s almost like doing Tetris! I’ve never had to directly call something. I am not the best one to answer that. 31:16 – Panel: It’s like a weird mix of tests. 31:29 – Panelist is talking about unit testing and other tests. 31:55 – Chuck asks a question. 32:02 – Guest: It depends on the scale of your project. 32:28 – Chuck: Do you guys use a test coverage tool or on the side of: everything should run and then test if there is a bug. 32:43 – Guest: Coverage isn’t the full story. 33:26 – Panel: You said you weren’t a fan of the testing pyramid – can you explain why? 33:43 – Guest: I think it turns too much prescriptive. Guest: I think there are bigger concerns out there and the test pyramid is an over-simplification. 35:22 – Panel: What’s the difference between fast and slow testing? 35:28 – Guest: It really depends on your level of knowledge. If your test suite runs more than twenty minutes to an hour that is probably too slow! 36:03 – Alyssa. 36:09 – Chuck. 36:16 – Alyssa: There is no way that 20 minutes equals that! 36:26 – Guest: 20 minutes is the extreme limit.  36:51 – Chuck. 37:11 – Panel: Any new Twitter news on Trump? 37:21 – Panelist talks about test suites! 37:40 – Panelists and guests go back-and-forth. 38:11 – Chuck: Do you have any recommendations for the unit testing? Keeping it small or not so much? 38:29 – Guest: Think: What is this test asking? Don’t write tests that won’t fail if some other tests could have caught them. 39:04 – Alyssa: That’s smart! 39:09 – Guest continues. 39:28 – Chuck: What else to jump on? Chuck: Do you write your tests in typescript or in Java? 39:48 – Guest answers the question. He mentions Python, typescript, and more! 40:17 – Alyssa. 40:22 – Guest continues. 40:46 – Alyssa: How many people worked on that project? 40:50 – Guest: 2 or 3 framework engineers who did the tooling. About 20 people total for tooling to make sure everything worked. 41:18 – Panelist asks a question. 41:22 – Guest: About 20 minutes! 42:35 – Guest wants to talk about the topic: end-to-end testing! 44:59 – Chuck: Let’s do picks! 45:09 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly! Links: Vue jQuery Angular JavaScript Python React Cypress Puppeteer – GitHub Protractor Test Mocha.js Selenium C# GitHub: testcafe Istanbul “Protractor: A New Hope” – YouTube Video – Michael Giambalvo & Craig Nishina Book: “Testing Angular Applications” – Manning Publications Michael’s GitHub Michael’s Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Cache Fly Picks: Alyssa Fantastic Beasts Joe Skyward War of the Spider Queen Luxur - board game Testing Angular with Cypress.io Space Cadets Sonar Family Charles The DevRev Podcast Gary Vee Audio Experience Michael Scale Captain Sonar

Panel: Charles Max Wood Joe Eames John Papa Alyssa Nicoll Special Guest:  Michael Giambalvo In this episode, Chuck talks with special guest Michael Giambalvo who is an author of the book titled, “Testing Angular Applications.” This book can be purchased through Amazon, Manning Publications, among other sites, too. The panelists and the guest talk about different types of tests, such as end-to-end testing and unit testing. They also talk about Angular, Java, Mocha, Test Café, and much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: AngularBootCamp.Com 0:53 – Chuck: Our panel is John Papa, Joe Eames, Alyssa Nicoll, and myself. My new show is the DevRev – check it out, please! 1:26 – Guest: I am a contributing author to our new book, which is about Angular. 1:56 – Chuck: How is it like to write with multiple people? 2:04 – Guest: Yep it’s hard b/c we are in different areas. Back in the 2.0 days, Jesse was writing a book. He was talking about typescript and components. Craig made friends with Jesse and they were talking about the book he was writing. Then we all jumped in to get in finished. We all had areas that we were specialists in! 3:21 – Alyssa: If you break it up that makes sense. 3:31 – Guest. 3:40 – Panel: Pick different words and go around the room. 3:51 – Panel: You write the first ½ of a sentence and then you write the other ½ of the sentence! 4:10 – Guest: You have these big word documents and go back-and-forth. 4:36 – Alyssa: Editing and then pass it back-and-forth – how does that work? 4:46 – Guest: It’s like 8 pass backs-and-forth. 5:35 – Guest: The editing was the main issue – it took forever! 5:50 – Chuck: We were going to co-author a book and we didn’t. Chuck: If you could break down the book in 4 core topics what would they be? Elevator pitch? What is the starting knowledge? 6:18 – Guest: We expect you to know Angular Intro and that’s it! 6:43 – Chuck: What are the principles? 6:50 – Guest: We talk about the testing component. We highlight the benefits of using Angular vs. Angular.js. That shows up in the book a lot. It’s very example driven. 7:28 – Chuck: We have been talking about testing quite a bit on the show lately. 8:22 – Chuck: Do you see people using the testing in regards to the pyramid? 8:33 – Guest: I am not a huge fan of the pyramid. Some questions I ask are: Does it run quickly? Is it reliable? To give you some background I work on Google Club Platform. 10:21 – The guest talks about “Page Level Integration Tests.” 11:31 – Alyssa. 11:50 – Chuck: After your explanation after writing your book I’m sure it’s a breeze now. Knowing these tests and having the confidence is great. 12:13 – Guest: Tools like Cypress is very helpful. Web Driver Testing, too. 12:43 – Chuck: Where do people start? What do you recommend? Do they start at Protractor or do they come down to unit tests? 13:02 – Guest: Finding the balance is important. 14:30 – Chuck: Check out a past episode that we’ve done. 14:40 – Panel asks a question about tools such as Test Café and Cypress. 14:50 – Guest: I really don’t know Test Café. There is a long story in how all of these fit together. The guest talks about Selenium, Cypress, Safari, Edge, Chrome, Firefox, and Puppeteer! 19:24 – Chuck: Does it work in Electron as well, too? 19:26 – Guest: Good question but I don’t know the answer. 19:39 – Chuck: Maybe a listener could write a comment and tell us. 19:43 – Panel: I’ve used Protractor for many years. I like the explanation that you just gave. The great thing about Protractor is that you can... 20:29 – Guest: We wanted to explain the difficulty of Protractor in this book. Guest: You have this test running in Node but then you have your app running in the browser. You have these 2 different run times. You might have to run them separately and there is tons of complexity. 21:15 – Panel: As I am coding you have this visual browser on one side, and then on the other side you have... 22:22 – Guest asks the panelists a question. 22:32 – Panel: I have only used it for a few months and a few several apps but haven’t had those issues, yet. 22:55 – Guest: I haven’t heard of Test Café at all. 23:05 – Alyssa: Is the book online? 23:13 – Guest: It’s available through Manning Publications and Amazon. I think we have some codes to giveaway! 23:34 – Chuck: Yeah, we are working on those codes and giveaways. We have mentioned about 5 or 6 tools – are you worried about your book going out of date? 24:05 – Guest: Sure that is something we are worried about. When editing took a long time to get through that was one of my thoughts. The guest talks about Selenium, control flow, Protractor, 25:45 – Guest (continues): These new features were coming out while the book was coming out – so there’s that. What’s this thing about control flow and why this matters to you, etc. We were able to add that into the book, which is good. We were able to get those instructions out there. Books have a delay to them. 26:47 – Chuck: We talked about this in JavaScript Jabber. This guest talked about this and he is from Big Nerd Ranch. At what point do you have this breaking point: This isn’t a good fit for Test Café or Selenium BUT a good fit for Mocha or Jest? 27:27 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 28:04 – Guest: Do you have a reason why you would switch testing tools? 28:12 – Chuck. 28:41 – Guest: That’s the tradeoff as you move down the ladder. 29:43 – Panel: If you want to trigger an action that isn’t triggerable? 29:50 – Guest answers the question. 30:07 – Panel. 30:20 – Chuck. 30:33 – Guest: You can access code. Usually something in a workflow will make it happen. You have to fall back on some type of UI sort of thing. It’s almost like doing Tetris! I’ve never had to directly call something. I am not the best one to answer that. 31:16 – Panel: It’s like a weird mix of tests. 31:29 – Panelist is talking about unit testing and other tests. 31:55 – Chuck asks a question. 32:02 – Guest: It depends on the scale of your project. 32:28 – Chuck: Do you guys use a test coverage tool or on the side of: everything should run and then test if there is a bug. 32:43 – Guest: Coverage isn’t the full story. 33:26 – Panel: You said you weren’t a fan of the testing pyramid – can you explain why? 33:43 – Guest: I think it turns too much prescriptive. Guest: I think there are bigger concerns out there and the test pyramid is an over-simplification. 35:22 – Panel: What’s the difference between fast and slow testing? 35:28 – Guest: It really depends on your level of knowledge. If your test suite runs more than twenty minutes to an hour that is probably too slow! 36:03 – Alyssa. 36:09 – Chuck. 36:16 – Alyssa: There is no way that 20 minutes equals that! 36:26 – Guest: 20 minutes is the extreme limit.  36:51 – Chuck. 37:11 – Panel: Any new Twitter news on Trump? 37:21 – Panelist talks about test suites! 37:40 – Panelists and guests go back-and-forth. 38:11 – Chuck: Do you have any recommendations for the unit testing? Keeping it small or not so much? 38:29 – Guest: Think: What is this test asking? Don’t write tests that won’t fail if some other tests could have caught them. 39:04 – Alyssa: That’s smart! 39:09 – Guest continues. 39:28 – Chuck: What else to jump on? Chuck: Do you write your tests in typescript or in Java? 39:48 – Guest answers the question. He mentions Python, typescript, and more! 40:17 – Alyssa. 40:22 – Guest continues. 40:46 – Alyssa: How many people worked on that project? 40:50 – Guest: 2 or 3 framework engineers who did the tooling. About 20 people total for tooling to make sure everything worked. 41:18 – Panelist asks a question. 41:22 – Guest: About 20 minutes! 42:35 – Guest wants to talk about the topic: end-to-end testing! 44:59 – Chuck: Let’s do picks! 45:09 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly! Links: Vue jQuery Angular JavaScript Python React Cypress Puppeteer – GitHub Protractor Test Mocha.js Selenium C# GitHub: testcafe Istanbul “Protractor: A New Hope” – YouTube Video – Michael Giambalvo & Craig Nishina Book: “Testing Angular Applications” – Manning Publications Michael’s GitHub Michael’s Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Cache Fly Picks: Alyssa Fantastic Beasts Joe Skyward War of the Spider Queen Luxur - board game Testing Angular with Cypress.io Space Cadets Sonar Family Charles The DevRev Podcast Gary Vee Audio Experience Michael Scale Captain Sonar

Panel: Josh Adams Charles Max Wood Mark Ericksen Special Guest: Devon Estes In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks with Devon Estes who is a software developer who uses Elixir. He currently resides in Berlin, Germany and has been working there for the past four years. The panelists and the guest talk about Elixir, testing, and much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job!  0:49 – Chuck: I am starting a new show called The DevRev. Check it out here! Our special guest today is Devon Estes. Episode 18 is a past episode you’ve been on – check it out here! 1:26 – Devon: I am American but live in Berlin, Germany for about 4 years now. I was a freelancer, but now I am at a “real” job now where I am a software developer using Elixir. 1:50 – Chuck: Cool! 2:05 – Guest: Something to always talk about testing – it’s evergreen! 2:15 – Chuck: What are the benefits you get from testing and what is your approach? 2:24 – The guest answers the question. 3:53 – Panelist chimes in. 4:18 – Panel: I like playing around and I know when something is terrible. I have to poke around to figure out if I like it or not. I am an exploratory developer. I write a test and it looks great at first but the implementation is terrible or something. 5:54 – Mark comments on developers and how they interact with their code. 7:15 – Mark: How do you approach that? I heard you talking about tests, spikes and other things. 7:22 – Guest: If it is something that is small I will write the test first. If it’s larger I will usually do 2-3 spikes to figure out what is going on. The guest continues with this topic. 8:54 – Panel: I found that over the years I couldn’t do that. 9:21 – Guest: With the topic of testing in Elixir I have these “rules” but I break them all the time. Sometimes you get better, cleaner tests out of it if you were to break the rule(s.). Tests are only there for 90% of the time, in my own opinion. Sometimes you have to play around to see what’s going on. 10:36 – Panel: I agree a lot, especially with integrations. 10:49 – Guest. 12:18 – Panel: You have these guidelines or rules and you know when to break those rules. You talked about these specific rules and I thought it was interesting. I was reading through these and I have the same rules but you codified them with examples. Can you walk us through your guidelines? 13:00 – Guest: To be super clear I am talking about unit tests. When I think of testing there is this testing pyramid. 13:52 – Panel. 14:57 – Guest: Like I said, these rules are meant to be broken, if appropriate. 16:39 – Guest continues with unit testing and other types of testing. He talks about easier to more difficult kinds of tests. 17:42 – Guest (continues): Sometimes the tests are accurately true, and sometimes not. It can be easy to get into those traps. Hopefully they will tell you what is expected. 18:25 – Panel: In Ruby, there is a test that would modify your code and remove stuff? Was it Mutant? Mutant testing. 19:03 – Guest answers the question. 19:38 – Guest: I don’t know if Elixir has anything like that, yet, but it would be pretty cool. It would be a good idea for someone to take on! 20:00 – Chuck: I have had conversations with a colleague – they both pushed back and talked more about Cypress.io and integrated tests. 21:04 – Chuck: I think it’s interesting to see the different approaches! 21:14 – Guest: We are lucky to have great tooling in Elixir!! The guest mentions Wallaby.js! 24:39 – The guest talks about unit levels. Check it out here! 26:35 – Panel. 26:48 – Chuck: How does it affect my workflow? I like end-to-end tests. The efficiency, if it’s repeating stuff – I don’t care – as long as it’s fast enough. If it ruins my workflow then it’s a problem. 27:22 – Panel. 28:12 – The topic “test coverage” is mentioned by Chuck. 28:25 – Panel. 29:02 – FreshBooks! 30:10 – Guest talks about Wallaby.js.  32:24 – Panel: We’ve had you on before, and the idea is that you are all into Elixir and its path. (EMx 018 – Episode with Devon Estes) 32:57 – Guest: I think testing in Elixir is simpler.  34:04 – Panel. 34:07 – Guest: You have commands and you have queries. The guest gives a hypothetical example! The guest also mentions GenServers, too. 35:42 – Guest: There are two ways that you can interact with the process: command & queries. 37:00 – Guest talks about different libraries such as: MoX. 37:41 – Panel: Any tips on testing the servers; just any GenServer? 38:25 – Panelist shares his approach with this. 39:54 – Guest: I don’t test name servers b/c they are by definition global state. The guest goes into great detail about testing – check it out! 46:29 – Panel. 47:01 – Guest: I kind of hate the term dependency interjection in the functional context. 47:17 – Panel: I think it’s helpful, because... 47:28 – Guest. 47:49 – Panelists go back-and-forth! 48:20 – Panel: Sending a message to the testing process – this was something that was stated by Devon earlier. I find this really helpful. 49:00 – Chuck: Picks! 49:05 – Ad: Lootcrate.com END – CacheFly! Links: Ruby Elixir GenServers Elm JavaScript Visual Studio Code React Wallaby Cypress.io Mutation Testing – GitHub MoX MRS 003 – Episode with Devon Estes RR 295 – Episode with Devon Estes RR 330 – Episode with Devon Estes EMx 018 – Episode with Devon Estes Devon’s GitHub Devon’s Twitter Sponsors: Loot Crate Get a Coder Job! Fresh Books CacheFly Picks: Mark Get Alias Blog - Mox Josh GitPitch.com Slide Deck by Josh Charles Values Extreme Ownership Sit down with your team Discord server for DevChat Recommendation Page for Elixir Devon Dell Laptop XPS 13 Play Station Mini Test  - devonestes@gmail.com

Panel: Josh Adams Charles Max Wood Mark Ericksen Special Guest: Devon Estes In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks with Devon Estes who is a software developer who uses Elixir. He currently resides in Berlin, Germany and has been working there for the past four years. The panelists and the guest talk about Elixir, testing, and much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job!  0:49 – Chuck: I am starting a new show called The DevRev. Check it out here! Our special guest today is Devon Estes. Episode 18 is a past episode you’ve been on – check it out here! 1:26 – Devon: I am American but live in Berlin, Germany for about 4 years now. I was a freelancer, but now I am at a “real” job now where I am a software developer using Elixir. 1:50 – Chuck: Cool! 2:05 – Guest: Something to always talk about testing – it’s evergreen! 2:15 – Chuck: What are the benefits you get from testing and what is your approach? 2:24 – The guest answers the question. 3:53 – Panelist chimes in. 4:18 – Panel: I like playing around and I know when something is terrible. I have to poke around to figure out if I like it or not. I am an exploratory developer. I write a test and it looks great at first but the implementation is terrible or something. 5:54 – Mark comments on developers and how they interact with their code. 7:15 – Mark: How do you approach that? I heard you talking about tests, spikes and other things. 7:22 – Guest: If it is something that is small I will write the test first. If it’s larger I will usually do 2-3 spikes to figure out what is going on. The guest continues with this topic. 8:54 – Panel: I found that over the years I couldn’t do that. 9:21 – Guest: With the topic of testing in Elixir I have these “rules” but I break them all the time. Sometimes you get better, cleaner tests out of it if you were to break the rule(s.). Tests are only there for 90% of the time, in my own opinion. Sometimes you have to play around to see what’s going on. 10:36 – Panel: I agree a lot, especially with integrations. 10:49 – Guest. 12:18 – Panel: You have these guidelines or rules and you know when to break those rules. You talked about these specific rules and I thought it was interesting. I was reading through these and I have the same rules but you codified them with examples. Can you walk us through your guidelines? 13:00 – Guest: To be super clear I am talking about unit tests. When I think of testing there is this testing pyramid. 13:52 – Panel. 14:57 – Guest: Like I said, these rules are meant to be broken, if appropriate. 16:39 – Guest continues with unit testing and other types of testing. He talks about easier to more difficult kinds of tests. 17:42 – Guest (continues): Sometimes the tests are accurately true, and sometimes not. It can be easy to get into those traps. Hopefully they will tell you what is expected. 18:25 – Panel: In Ruby, there is a test that would modify your code and remove stuff? Was it Mutant? Mutant testing. 19:03 – Guest answers the question. 19:38 – Guest: I don’t know if Elixir has anything like that, yet, but it would be pretty cool. It would be a good idea for someone to take on! 20:00 – Chuck: I have had conversations with a colleague – they both pushed back and talked more about Cypress.io and integrated tests. 21:04 – Chuck: I think it’s interesting to see the different approaches! 21:14 – Guest: We are lucky to have great tooling in Elixir!! The guest mentions Wallaby.js! 24:39 – The guest talks about unit levels. Check it out here! 26:35 – Panel. 26:48 – Chuck: How does it affect my workflow? I like end-to-end tests. The efficiency, if it’s repeating stuff – I don’t care – as long as it’s fast enough. If it ruins my workflow then it’s a problem. 27:22 – Panel. 28:12 – The topic “test coverage” is mentioned by Chuck. 28:25 – Panel. 29:02 – FreshBooks! 30:10 – Guest talks about Wallaby.js.  32:24 – Panel: We’ve had you on before, and the idea is that you are all into Elixir and its path. (EMx 018 – Episode with Devon Estes) 32:57 – Guest: I think testing in Elixir is simpler.  34:04 – Panel. 34:07 – Guest: You have commands and you have queries. The guest gives a hypothetical example! The guest also mentions GenServers, too. 35:42 – Guest: There are two ways that you can interact with the process: command & queries. 37:00 – Guest talks about different libraries such as: MoX. 37:41 – Panel: Any tips on testing the servers; just any GenServer? 38:25 – Panelist shares his approach with this. 39:54 – Guest: I don’t test name servers b/c they are by definition global state. The guest goes into great detail about testing – check it out! 46:29 – Panel. 47:01 – Guest: I kind of hate the term dependency interjection in the functional context. 47:17 – Panel: I think it’s helpful, because... 47:28 – Guest. 47:49 – Panelists go back-and-forth! 48:20 – Panel: Sending a message to the testing process – this was something that was stated by Devon earlier. I find this really helpful. 49:00 – Chuck: Picks! 49:05 – Ad: Lootcrate.com END – CacheFly! Links: Ruby Elixir GenServers Elm JavaScript Visual Studio Code React Wallaby Cypress.io Mutation Testing – GitHub MoX MRS 003 – Episode with Devon Estes RR 295 – Episode with Devon Estes RR 330 – Episode with Devon Estes EMx 018 – Episode with Devon Estes Devon’s GitHub Devon’s Twitter Sponsors: Loot Crate Get a Coder Job! Fresh Books CacheFly Picks: Mark Get Alias Blog - Mox Josh GitPitch.com Slide Deck by Josh Charles Values Extreme Ownership Sit down with your team Discord server for DevChat Recommendation Page for Elixir Devon Dell Laptop XPS 13 Play Station Mini Test  - devonestes@gmail.com

Panel: Joe Eames Chris Fritz Divya Sasidharan Special Guest: Guillaume Chau In this episode, the panel talks with Guillaume Chau who is apart of the VueJS core team, a frontend engineer at Livestorm, and an open source contributor. The guest and the panelists talk about plugins, Webpack, Vue CLI, and much more! Check out today’s episode to hear all of the details.  Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement – Kendo UI 1:00 – Chris lists who is on the panel along with today’s guest. Chris: Who are you and what are you working on? 1:50 – Guest: I am working on a startup in Paris. I am calling in from Lyon, France. 2:12 – Panel: Late there? 2:15 – Panel: Almost time for dinner? 2:21 – Guest: Yes, it’s cooking now! 2:26 – Panel asks a question. 2:43 – Guest answers the question. 3:14 – Panel: Anyone who didn’t want to be an expert, they don’t’ have to worry about how things tie together – you could help them with their configurations? 3:36 – Guest: A lot of the work is done for you with the configurations so you can start writing your apps. 3:53 – Panel: How is 3 different from 2? 4:06 – Guest: It’s like a new tool entirely. It’s working very different, too, with a different system. It has a different template base.  5:53 – Panel: To combine templates you have to understand it well, like different Webpacks. 6:12 – Guest: Regarding Webpacks and their configurations... 6:52 – Panel: With the template situation there was an issue where they would make their project and as new versions of Webpack came out...and new versions of Babble, and they will have to manage the dependencies of all of these. There might be some plugins that only work with x, y, and z. IT can be frustrating – can version 3 take care of this for you? 7:44 – Guest answers the question. 9:24 – Panel: How do you update plugins? 9:29 – Guest. 10:26 – Panel: Upgrade your plugins then as long as all of your plugins are the same version it’s okay? 10:34 – Guest: Yes. You can upgrade your... 11:38 – Chris: Divya, you just gave a talk (London) on...plugins, right? 11:50 – Divya: Yes. We talked about Webpack configurations. For example, if there are some testing libraries you can essentially setup a UCLI plugin to create a test – create a test folder – plugins let you generate files or folders (structure your project in a certain way). In London I talked about server less functions with... 13:30 – Panel: Any kind of pattern you want to use in different applications you can wrap that up in a plugin? 13:42 – Divya: Yes. Exactly. Instead of repeating yourself you can wrap it up. It’s really handy. 14:00 – Panel asks a question. 14:02 – Divya: You could do that... 14:10 – Panel: ...or a graph QL – Yes! 14:20 – Guest. 14:33 – Chris: Any thing that third-party plugins don’t have access to? 14:43 – Guest. 14:54 – Chris. 15:08 – Guest. 15:25 – Divya: ...if you want a UCLI service...and so you can grab those commands and add-on those commands and using those default commands. You have access to those commands, so you don’t always... 17:02 – Chris: Like deploy? 17:11 – Divya: Yes. 17:17 – Guest. 17:19 – Divya. Divya: Do you have strategies on how you go about testing your plugins? 17:35 – Guest: Yes, I do. 19:23 – Panel: So this is like end-to-end test for a CLI tool? 19:33 – Guest. 19:50 – Panel: Is there documentation for all of this? 19:59 – Guest. 20:14 – Divya: I think the way I’ve done tests is to edit an example a test project as a local dependency and then seeing that it works. I want to make sure that it works. Divya: And the other way I’ve done it is VUE CLI it is undocumented at the moment. You can test your CLI plugin from within the plugin itself. 21:55 – Guest: I’ve used some of those before. 22:08 – Chris: Speaking of the UI that is something I’d love to talk about. It seems unique to me – a CLI tool that has a UI that is built along with it. That seems strange to some people – how does that work and WHY would you need it? 22:42 – Guest: I’ll start with the WHY. It is way more powerful and as a greeter the API interface is more fixable so you can choose different options. For example when you create a project you can set different things. You basically have to name the project and you have simple options to choose form. Now it’s basically a really fixable system with plugins and stuff like that. I thought it would be nice to free it from the terminal. The best way to do that was creating a graphical interface. The main advantage of this was that you could add more information and explanations to what is going on. You can also create better interface. Guest: Also, it currently improves discoverability. 25:30 – Chris: You could do a search in the UI and type in the name of something you are working with and then your plugin would show up in the list – and then it would just be added to their project. That’s nice so they don’t have to go to the NPM or doing the README. 26:07 – Guest. 26:14 – Divya: I think it’s nice b/c I have used it extensively for my plugin. I want to see what hasn’t been taken already. I have a way of organizing my modules and I’ve used to it see what names have already been taken? 26:47 – Guest: I think sometimes... 27:15 – Divya: The feature that you are able to run tasks from the UI is nice. 27:55 – Chris: It sounds like it offers a nicer way to view a lot of things. One of the other advantages (that I found) is that I have a configuration to the listing rules to Vue – you can pick the exact rule set that you want to use. Normally when you look at a configuration file, you don’t know what rule sets are available, you don’t know what options are available. All of this you have to look at documentation. You can see descriptions of what each rule does. You can do so much in the UI. 29:19 – Guest. 29:40 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! 30:25 – Chris: Do they still need a terminal? 30:35 – Guest. 32:41 – Chris: That would be cool! 32:46 – Guest. 33:09 – Chris: They still need a little terminal knowledge right? 33:15 – Guest: Yes. 33:33 – Chris: They need a little terminal knowledge, they need to install the package, then they need to run VUE UI, then they can do anything from the terminal inside of the UI? 33:55 – Guest: You can create and import existing projects. 34:28 – Panel. 34:33 – Chris. 34:36 – Panel: It’s already active? 34:43 – Guest: I would like to talk about what I did in London. That conference I talked about... 37:00 – Panel. 37:07 – Guest. 37:20 – Panel: Nice! 37:25 – Guest. Guest: All of these widgets that I talked about you can use the product API and do anything that you want. 38:47 – Chris: If someone wants to see the dashboard that you are doing – where can they see that stuff? 39:00 – Guest: GitHub. Follow the manuscript instructions. 39:16 – Chris: Your London talk was recorded? 39:22 – Guest: Yes. 39:27 – Guest. 39:38 – Divya: Are you planning on giving this talk in other events? 39:47 – Guest: Maybe not anytime soon. 39:56 – Chris. 40:00 – Divya. 40:09 – Guest: It might be release already we don’t know. 40:15 – Divya: A date you would like to release by? 40:25 – Chris: Where can people support you and your work? 40:35 – Guest: Yes, they definitely can. You can check out the GitHub file. Also, check-out my open source work, too. 41:17 – Chris: Twitter? 41:19 – Guest: Yes. 41:24 – Chris: You have cute cat pictures, too. Let’s go to Picks!! 41:40 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue VUE CLI 3 Vue CLI – NPM React Angular JavaScript DevChat TV Article: Infrequently Noted Vue.js Fundamentals GetKap Snipcart Netlify Webpack.js Guillaume Chau’s Vue.JS LONDON Guillaume Chau’s Twitter Guillaume Chau’s LinkedIn Guillaume Chau’s GitHub Guillaume Chau’s GitHub Repositories Guillaume Chau’s ABOUT in Patreon.com Guillaume Chau’s Medium Guillaume Chau’s Info Divya’s London Talk Webpack – Configurations Graph QL Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Get A Coder Job! Picks: Joe VueJS Fundamentals Developer Experience Bait and Switch Divya Get Kap Snipcart How we built a Due CLI Plugin for Netlify Lambda Chris Meditation Gratefulness Guillaume Exercise The Expanse

Panel: Joe Eames Chris Fritz Divya Sasidharan Special Guest: Guillaume Chau In this episode, the panel talks with Guillaume Chau who is apart of the VueJS core team, a frontend engineer at Livestorm, and an open source contributor. The guest and the panelists talk about plugins, Webpack, Vue CLI, and much more! Check out today’s episode to hear all of the details.  Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement – Kendo UI 1:00 – Chris lists who is on the panel along with today’s guest. Chris: Who are you and what are you working on? 1:50 – Guest: I am working on a startup in Paris. I am calling in from Lyon, France. 2:12 – Panel: Late there? 2:15 – Panel: Almost time for dinner? 2:21 – Guest: Yes, it’s cooking now! 2:26 – Panel asks a question. 2:43 – Guest answers the question. 3:14 – Panel: Anyone who didn’t want to be an expert, they don’t’ have to worry about how things tie together – you could help them with their configurations? 3:36 – Guest: A lot of the work is done for you with the configurations so you can start writing your apps. 3:53 – Panel: How is 3 different from 2? 4:06 – Guest: It’s like a new tool entirely. It’s working very different, too, with a different system. It has a different template base.  5:53 – Panel: To combine templates you have to understand it well, like different Webpacks. 6:12 – Guest: Regarding Webpacks and their configurations... 6:52 – Panel: With the template situation there was an issue where they would make their project and as new versions of Webpack came out...and new versions of Babble, and they will have to manage the dependencies of all of these. There might be some plugins that only work with x, y, and z. IT can be frustrating – can version 3 take care of this for you? 7:44 – Guest answers the question. 9:24 – Panel: How do you update plugins? 9:29 – Guest. 10:26 – Panel: Upgrade your plugins then as long as all of your plugins are the same version it’s okay? 10:34 – Guest: Yes. You can upgrade your... 11:38 – Chris: Divya, you just gave a talk (London) on...plugins, right? 11:50 – Divya: Yes. We talked about Webpack configurations. For example, if there are some testing libraries you can essentially setup a UCLI plugin to create a test – create a test folder – plugins let you generate files or folders (structure your project in a certain way). In London I talked about server less functions with... 13:30 – Panel: Any kind of pattern you want to use in different applications you can wrap that up in a plugin? 13:42 – Divya: Yes. Exactly. Instead of repeating yourself you can wrap it up. It’s really handy. 14:00 – Panel asks a question. 14:02 – Divya: You could do that... 14:10 – Panel: ...or a graph QL – Yes! 14:20 – Guest. 14:33 – Chris: Any thing that third-party plugins don’t have access to? 14:43 – Guest. 14:54 – Chris. 15:08 – Guest. 15:25 – Divya: ...if you want a UCLI service...and so you can grab those commands and add-on those commands and using those default commands. You have access to those commands, so you don’t always... 17:02 – Chris: Like deploy? 17:11 – Divya: Yes. 17:17 – Guest. 17:19 – Divya. Divya: Do you have strategies on how you go about testing your plugins? 17:35 – Guest: Yes, I do. 19:23 – Panel: So this is like end-to-end test for a CLI tool? 19:33 – Guest. 19:50 – Panel: Is there documentation for all of this? 19:59 – Guest. 20:14 – Divya: I think the way I’ve done tests is to edit an example a test project as a local dependency and then seeing that it works. I want to make sure that it works. Divya: And the other way I’ve done it is VUE CLI it is undocumented at the moment. You can test your CLI plugin from within the plugin itself. 21:55 – Guest: I’ve used some of those before. 22:08 – Chris: Speaking of the UI that is something I’d love to talk about. It seems unique to me – a CLI tool that has a UI that is built along with it. That seems strange to some people – how does that work and WHY would you need it? 22:42 – Guest: I’ll start with the WHY. It is way more powerful and as a greeter the API interface is more fixable so you can choose different options. For example when you create a project you can set different things. You basically have to name the project and you have simple options to choose form. Now it’s basically a really fixable system with plugins and stuff like that. I thought it would be nice to free it from the terminal. The best way to do that was creating a graphical interface. The main advantage of this was that you could add more information and explanations to what is going on. You can also create better interface. Guest: Also, it currently improves discoverability. 25:30 – Chris: You could do a search in the UI and type in the name of something you are working with and then your plugin would show up in the list – and then it would just be added to their project. That’s nice so they don’t have to go to the NPM or doing the README. 26:07 – Guest. 26:14 – Divya: I think it’s nice b/c I have used it extensively for my plugin. I want to see what hasn’t been taken already. I have a way of organizing my modules and I’ve used to it see what names have already been taken? 26:47 – Guest: I think sometimes... 27:15 – Divya: The feature that you are able to run tasks from the UI is nice. 27:55 – Chris: It sounds like it offers a nicer way to view a lot of things. One of the other advantages (that I found) is that I have a configuration to the listing rules to Vue – you can pick the exact rule set that you want to use. Normally when you look at a configuration file, you don’t know what rule sets are available, you don’t know what options are available. All of this you have to look at documentation. You can see descriptions of what each rule does. You can do so much in the UI. 29:19 – Guest. 29:40 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! 30:25 – Chris: Do they still need a terminal? 30:35 – Guest. 32:41 – Chris: That would be cool! 32:46 – Guest. 33:09 – Chris: They still need a little terminal knowledge right? 33:15 – Guest: Yes. 33:33 – Chris: They need a little terminal knowledge, they need to install the package, then they need to run VUE UI, then they can do anything from the terminal inside of the UI? 33:55 – Guest: You can create and import existing projects. 34:28 – Panel. 34:33 – Chris. 34:36 – Panel: It’s already active? 34:43 – Guest: I would like to talk about what I did in London. That conference I talked about... 37:00 – Panel. 37:07 – Guest. 37:20 – Panel: Nice! 37:25 – Guest. Guest: All of these widgets that I talked about you can use the product API and do anything that you want. 38:47 – Chris: If someone wants to see the dashboard that you are doing – where can they see that stuff? 39:00 – Guest: GitHub. Follow the manuscript instructions. 39:16 – Chris: Your London talk was recorded? 39:22 – Guest: Yes. 39:27 – Guest. 39:38 – Divya: Are you planning on giving this talk in other events? 39:47 – Guest: Maybe not anytime soon. 39:56 – Chris. 40:00 – Divya. 40:09 – Guest: It might be release already we don’t know. 40:15 – Divya: A date you would like to release by? 40:25 – Chris: Where can people support you and your work? 40:35 – Guest: Yes, they definitely can. You can check out the GitHub file. Also, check-out my open source work, too. 41:17 – Chris: Twitter? 41:19 – Guest: Yes. 41:24 – Chris: You have cute cat pictures, too. Let’s go to Picks!! 41:40 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue VUE CLI 3 Vue CLI – NPM React Angular JavaScript DevChat TV Article: Infrequently Noted Vue.js Fundamentals GetKap Snipcart Netlify Webpack.js Guillaume Chau’s Vue.JS LONDON Guillaume Chau’s Twitter Guillaume Chau’s LinkedIn Guillaume Chau’s GitHub Guillaume Chau’s GitHub Repositories Guillaume Chau’s ABOUT in Patreon.com Guillaume Chau’s Medium Guillaume Chau’s Info Divya’s London Talk Webpack – Configurations Graph QL Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Get A Coder Job! Picks: Joe VueJS Fundamentals Developer Experience Bait and Switch Divya Get Kap Snipcart How we built a Due CLI Plugin for Netlify Lambda Chris Meditation Gratefulness Guillaume Exercise The Expanse

Panel: Divya Sasidharan Charles Max Wood Joe Eames John Papa Chris Fritz Erik Hanchett Special Guest: Sarah Drasner In this episode, the panel talks with Jacob Schatz and Taylor Murphy who are apart of the GitLab Team. Jake is a staff developer, and Taylor is a manager at GitLab who started off as a data engineer. To find out more about the GitLab Team check them out here! Also, they are looking to hire, so inquire about the position through GitLab, if interested! The panel talks about Vue, Flux, Node, Flask, Python, D3, and much...much more! Show Topics: 1:51 – Chuck: Introduce yourselves, please. 1:55 – Backgrounds of the guests. 2:45 – Chuck. 2:51 – GitLab (GL): We first adapted Vue at the GitLab team for 2 years now. 3:34 – Chuck: What’s your workflow like through Vue? 3:50 – GL: We are using an application that...Using Python and Flask on the background. Vue CLI throughout the development. 4:35 – Panel asks a question. 4:40 – GitLab answers the question. 5:38 – Panel: Tell us about your secret project? 5:49 – GL: The data team at GL we are trying to solve these questions. How to get from resume to hire? There is data there. So that’s what Meltano helps with. Taylor has a Ph.D. in this area so he knows what’s he’s talking about. 7:30 – Taylor dives into this project via GitLab. 8:52 – GL: Super cool thing is that we are figuring out different ways to do things. It’s really cool stuff that we are doing. 9:23 – Panel: I’ve worked on projects when the frontend people and the data people are doing 2 different things. And they don’t know what each other group is doing. It’s interesting to bring the two things together. I see that teams have a hard time working together when it’s too separated. 10:31 – Panel: Can we get a definition of data scientist vs. a data engineer. 10:44 – Panel: Definitions of DATA SCIENCE and DATA ENGINEER are. 11:39 – GL: That is pretty close. Data science means different things to different people. 12:51 – Panel chimes in. 13:00 – Panel asks a question. 13:11 – GL: When I started working on Meltano... 14:26 – Panel: Looker is a visualization tool; I thought: I bet we can make that. I have been recreating something like Looker. We are trying to replace Looker. We are recreating a lot of the functionality of Looker. 15:10 – Panel will this be called...? 15:31 – Meltano analyze it’s apart of Meltano. Cool thing about Looker it has these files that show the whole visualization – drag and drop. With these files we can do version control. It’s built in – and if you drag it’s apart of a database. We took these files and we... 17:37 – Panel: Define Vue for that, please? 17:49 – GL dives into this topic. 18:40 – GL mentions Node. 18:52 – Chuck: What format does your data take? Do you have different reports that get sent? How does that work? 19:13 – GL: It tells a list of measures and dimensions. I setup our database to... 20:13 – Panel: Question. You chose Vue and it’s working. The reality you could have chosen any other tools. Why really did you choose Vue? 20:30 – GL: I know Vue really well. In the early 2000s I had my... If I have to repeat a process I always use Vue, because it’s the thing I am most comfortable with. This is how I program things very quickly. 21:10 – Panel: How has Vue met or exceeded or not met those expectations? 21:20 – GL: It has exceeded my expectations. One of the things is that as I am trying to staff a team I am trying to write Vue so when people see it they don’t think, “why would he do that?” 22:53 – Flux inspired architecture. 23:07 – GitLab continues the talk. 23:21 – Everything is Flux inspired in the sense that it was an idea to start with and then everybody made alterations and built things on top of that. 23:48 – Panel chimes in. 24:35 – Panel: Can you speak on the process of the workflow and process you work in Taylor and the data science and the frontend of it? 24:54 – GL: It’s the same but different. GitLab talks about Meltano some more, and also Taylor. GL: Taylor is trying to solve all these problems through Meltano. Maybe we can build our own tools? 26:05 – Panel: What’s a Lever Extractor?! 26:14 – GL: Answers this question. 26:25 – Panel: So it’s not a technical term...okay. 26:30 – GitLab continues the talk and discusses different tools. 27:18 – Panel: You are grabbing that data and Taylor is doing his magic? Or is it more integrated? 27:32 – GL answers this question. 29:06 – GitLab: In the beginning we are building that extractors for the other team, but later... The cool thing about Meltano is making it like Word Press. We have an extractor, different directories other things will be discovered by Meltano and discovered by the Gooey. If you write it correctly it can hook on to it. 30:00 – Digital Ocean Advertisement 31:38 – Panel: Meltano is a mix between Python and JavaScript or Vue? 30:43 – GL: Yeah... 31:20 – Panel asks question. How are you orchestrating the data? 31:32 – GL: Eventually it will happen with GitLab CUI. We are thinking we can orchestrate other ways. Right now it’s manually. 32:33 – GL: I like finding some sort of language that doesn’t have an extension...and writing... 32:54 – GL: I’m excited to use a tool that does things the right way like loading and transforming data but the frontend can be a joy to use. A previous company that I worked with and thought: It would be a joy to work with and connect to things that make sense, and do things the “right way”. I hope that’s what we can do with Meltano. I’m not a frontend person, but I appreciate it. 34:03 – GL: This is what I’m going to do...we will have these conversations between Taylor, myself, and our teams. 34:53 – Panel: This is a tool that people need to DL, maybe will you guys host this somewhere as a service. 35:10 – GL: We are trying to get this running. Small steps. It’s not out of the question and it’s not out of the question for this to be a service. 35:33 – GL: What do you want to do with the data warehouse? Your data is yours. 36:06 – Panel: Yeah, you don’t want to be in-charge of that. 36:17 – Panel: Have we asked where the name Meltano came from? 36:30 – GL: It sounds like a weird name. Here is the background of the name of “Meltano” came from. First name was from a sperm whale, it’s a unique name: Cachalot. 38:02 – GL: Conversation continues. 38:38 – Panel chimes in. 38:58 – GL: What does this program offering and doing...This was to help me with the name. 39:27 – GL: Acronym for Meltano: Model / Extract / Load / Transform / Analyze / Notebook / Orchestrate 39:47 – GL continues. They talk about notebooks. 40:19 –Sounds like a Daft Punk album! 40:28 – GL: I am trying to get more on the data science side. 40:57 – Panel: Question. Is Meltano super responsive and quick? 41:17 – GL: It depends on the size of the data, of course, but it is very responsive. 42:11 – GL: That job took 7-8 hours to extract everything for that specific project. 42:39 – GL: There are a lot of moving parts, so that could depend on it slowing it down or speeding it up. 43:01 – When you were building Meltano for your team, for the visualization how do you make decisions on what exactly you are visualizing? 43:18 – GL: That is the tricky part...you are one team. We are trying to find at a point where the data team is happy. One thing for example I put out a bar chart. Team member said that bar charts should always be vertical. So I am learning how they work and their wealth of information on visualization. 44:33 – Panel: Chris always does visualization. 44:48 – GL: Emily is on the team, and knows a lot about that. The correct way to visualize data so it doesn’t just look “cool.” You want it to be useful. Chart JS is what I use. 45:32 – Panel: I have used Chart JS before, too. 46:00 – Chris: I really like... 46:37 – Panel continues this conversation. 47:01 – Panel: Keynote will be given by...at this conference. 47:11 – GL continues to talk about this conversation. From nothing to something in a short amount of time. When I showed people: 47:55 – Panel: are you using Vue transitions? 48:09 – GL: Nope not even slightly. My plan was to use Vue transitions but it’s icing on the cake. Just get it working. 48:29 – Panel: A link of how I use... 49:14 – GL: This is a very small amount of code to where you are. It’s not like you had to re-implement triangles or anything like that. 49:36 – Panel: It does take some time but once you get it – you get it. 49:59 – Panel: When working with axis it can get hairy. 50:52 – GL: D3 really does a lot of the math for you and fits right it once you know how it works. You can draw anything with HTML. Check Links. 52:19 – Panel: There are a million different ways to do visualizations. There is math behind... 53:08 – Panel: D3 also helps with de-clustering. 53:25 – Panel: Any recommendations with someone who wants to dive into D3? 53:37 – GL: Tutorials have gotten better over time. 53:57 – Panel continues the conversation. 54:19 – GL: D3 Version 4 and 5 was one big library. You have C3 – what’s your opinion on C3? 55:00 – GL: have no strong opinions. 55:03 – Chuck chimes in. 55:18 – Panel continues this conversation. She talks about how she had a hard time learning D3, and how everything clicked once she learned it. 55:55 – GL: Main reason why I didn’t use D3 because... 56:07 – GL: If you were a “real” developer you’d... 56:35 – Panel: Let’s go to Picks! 56:40 – Advertisement – Code Badges Links: JavaScript Ruby on Rails Angular Digital Ocean Code Badge Notion Vue Meltano Looker Node Flux Taylor Python Chart JS React Chris Fritz – JS Fiddle D3 Chris Lema – Building an Online Course... Vuetify The First Vue.js Spring Vue CLI 3.0 Online Tutorials To Help You Get Ahead Hacker Noon – Finding Creativity in Software Engineer Indiegogo Create Awesome Vue.js Apps With... Data Sketches Vue.js in Action Benjamin Hardy’s Website Data Intensive: Don’t Just Hack It Together Article: How to Pick a Career...By Tim Urban Taylor A. Murphy’s Twitter Email: tmurphy@gitlab.com GitLab – Meet our Team Jacob Schatz’s Twitter Sponsors: Kendo UI Digital Ocean Code Badge Cache Fly Picks: Joe Ben Hardy on Medium Set Goals Chris Vue CLI 3 Vue CLI 3 on Medium Vue Dev Tools Get a new computer John Vuetify Divya Data Sketch One climb Finding Creativity in Software Engineering Erik Create Awesome Vue.js Vue.js in action Charles Get a Coder Job Building an online course Jacob Alma CCS Read source code Allen Kay Taylor Designing Data-Intensive Applications Wait But Why

Panel: Divya Sasidharan Charles Max Wood Joe Eames John Papa Chris Fritz Erik Hanchett Special Guest: Sarah Drasner In this episode, the panel talks with Jacob Schatz and Taylor Murphy who are apart of the GitLab Team. Jake is a staff developer, and Taylor is a manager at GitLab who started off as a data engineer. To find out more about the GitLab Team check them out here! Also, they are looking to hire, so inquire about the position through GitLab, if interested! The panel talks about Vue, Flux, Node, Flask, Python, D3, and much...much more! Show Topics: 1:51 – Chuck: Introduce yourselves, please. 1:55 – Backgrounds of the guests. 2:45 – Chuck. 2:51 – GitLab (GL): We first adapted Vue at the GitLab team for 2 years now. 3:34 – Chuck: What’s your workflow like through Vue? 3:50 – GL: We are using an application that...Using Python and Flask on the background. Vue CLI throughout the development. 4:35 – Panel asks a question. 4:40 – GitLab answers the question. 5:38 – Panel: Tell us about your secret project? 5:49 – GL: The data team at GL we are trying to solve these questions. How to get from resume to hire? There is data there. So that’s what Meltano helps with. Taylor has a Ph.D. in this area so he knows what’s he’s talking about. 7:30 – Taylor dives into this project via GitLab. 8:52 – GL: Super cool thing is that we are figuring out different ways to do things. It’s really cool stuff that we are doing. 9:23 – Panel: I’ve worked on projects when the frontend people and the data people are doing 2 different things. And they don’t know what each other group is doing. It’s interesting to bring the two things together. I see that teams have a hard time working together when it’s too separated. 10:31 – Panel: Can we get a definition of data scientist vs. a data engineer. 10:44 – Panel: Definitions of DATA SCIENCE and DATA ENGINEER are. 11:39 – GL: That is pretty close. Data science means different things to different people. 12:51 – Panel chimes in. 13:00 – Panel asks a question. 13:11 – GL: When I started working on Meltano... 14:26 – Panel: Looker is a visualization tool; I thought: I bet we can make that. I have been recreating something like Looker. We are trying to replace Looker. We are recreating a lot of the functionality of Looker. 15:10 – Panel will this be called...? 15:31 – Meltano analyze it’s apart of Meltano. Cool thing about Looker it has these files that show the whole visualization – drag and drop. With these files we can do version control. It’s built in – and if you drag it’s apart of a database. We took these files and we... 17:37 – Panel: Define Vue for that, please? 17:49 – GL dives into this topic. 18:40 – GL mentions Node. 18:52 – Chuck: What format does your data take? Do you have different reports that get sent? How does that work? 19:13 – GL: It tells a list of measures and dimensions. I setup our database to... 20:13 – Panel: Question. You chose Vue and it’s working. The reality you could have chosen any other tools. Why really did you choose Vue? 20:30 – GL: I know Vue really well. In the early 2000s I had my... If I have to repeat a process I always use Vue, because it’s the thing I am most comfortable with. This is how I program things very quickly. 21:10 – Panel: How has Vue met or exceeded or not met those expectations? 21:20 – GL: It has exceeded my expectations. One of the things is that as I am trying to staff a team I am trying to write Vue so when people see it they don’t think, “why would he do that?” 22:53 – Flux inspired architecture. 23:07 – GitLab continues the talk. 23:21 – Everything is Flux inspired in the sense that it was an idea to start with and then everybody made alterations and built things on top of that. 23:48 – Panel chimes in. 24:35 – Panel: Can you speak on the process of the workflow and process you work in Taylor and the data science and the frontend of it? 24:54 – GL: It’s the same but different. GitLab talks about Meltano some more, and also Taylor. GL: Taylor is trying to solve all these problems through Meltano. Maybe we can build our own tools? 26:05 – Panel: What’s a Lever Extractor?! 26:14 – GL: Answers this question. 26:25 – Panel: So it’s not a technical term...okay. 26:30 – GitLab continues the talk and discusses different tools. 27:18 – Panel: You are grabbing that data and Taylor is doing his magic? Or is it more integrated? 27:32 – GL answers this question. 29:06 – GitLab: In the beginning we are building that extractors for the other team, but later... The cool thing about Meltano is making it like Word Press. We have an extractor, different directories other things will be discovered by Meltano and discovered by the Gooey. If you write it correctly it can hook on to it. 30:00 – Digital Ocean Advertisement 31:38 – Panel: Meltano is a mix between Python and JavaScript or Vue? 30:43 – GL: Yeah... 31:20 – Panel asks question. How are you orchestrating the data? 31:32 – GL: Eventually it will happen with GitLab CUI. We are thinking we can orchestrate other ways. Right now it’s manually. 32:33 – GL: I like finding some sort of language that doesn’t have an extension...and writing... 32:54 – GL: I’m excited to use a tool that does things the right way like loading and transforming data but the frontend can be a joy to use. A previous company that I worked with and thought: It would be a joy to work with and connect to things that make sense, and do things the “right way”. I hope that’s what we can do with Meltano. I’m not a frontend person, but I appreciate it. 34:03 – GL: This is what I’m going to do...we will have these conversations between Taylor, myself, and our teams. 34:53 – Panel: This is a tool that people need to DL, maybe will you guys host this somewhere as a service. 35:10 – GL: We are trying to get this running. Small steps. It’s not out of the question and it’s not out of the question for this to be a service. 35:33 – GL: What do you want to do with the data warehouse? Your data is yours. 36:06 – Panel: Yeah, you don’t want to be in-charge of that. 36:17 – Panel: Have we asked where the name Meltano came from? 36:30 – GL: It sounds like a weird name. Here is the background of the name of “Meltano” came from. First name was from a sperm whale, it’s a unique name: Cachalot. 38:02 – GL: Conversation continues. 38:38 – Panel chimes in. 38:58 – GL: What does this program offering and doing...This was to help me with the name. 39:27 – GL: Acronym for Meltano: Model / Extract / Load / Transform / Analyze / Notebook / Orchestrate 39:47 – GL continues. They talk about notebooks. 40:19 –Sounds like a Daft Punk album! 40:28 – GL: I am trying to get more on the data science side. 40:57 – Panel: Question. Is Meltano super responsive and quick? 41:17 – GL: It depends on the size of the data, of course, but it is very responsive. 42:11 – GL: That job took 7-8 hours to extract everything for that specific project. 42:39 – GL: There are a lot of moving parts, so that could depend on it slowing it down or speeding it up. 43:01 – When you were building Meltano for your team, for the visualization how do you make decisions on what exactly you are visualizing? 43:18 – GL: That is the tricky part...you are one team. We are trying to find at a point where the data team is happy. One thing for example I put out a bar chart. Team member said that bar charts should always be vertical. So I am learning how they work and their wealth of information on visualization. 44:33 – Panel: Chris always does visualization. 44:48 – GL: Emily is on the team, and knows a lot about that. The correct way to visualize data so it doesn’t just look “cool.” You want it to be useful. Chart JS is what I use. 45:32 – Panel: I have used Chart JS before, too. 46:00 – Chris: I really like... 46:37 – Panel continues this conversation. 47:01 – Panel: Keynote will be given by...at this conference. 47:11 – GL continues to talk about this conversation. From nothing to something in a short amount of time. When I showed people: 47:55 – Panel: are you using Vue transitions? 48:09 – GL: Nope not even slightly. My plan was to use Vue transitions but it’s icing on the cake. Just get it working. 48:29 – Panel: A link of how I use... 49:14 – GL: This is a very small amount of code to where you are. It’s not like you had to re-implement triangles or anything like that. 49:36 – Panel: It does take some time but once you get it – you get it. 49:59 – Panel: When working with axis it can get hairy. 50:52 – GL: D3 really does a lot of the math for you and fits right it once you know how it works. You can draw anything with HTML. Check Links. 52:19 – Panel: There are a million different ways to do visualizations. There is math behind... 53:08 – Panel: D3 also helps with de-clustering. 53:25 – Panel: Any recommendations with someone who wants to dive into D3? 53:37 – GL: Tutorials have gotten better over time. 53:57 – Panel continues the conversation. 54:19 – GL: D3 Version 4 and 5 was one big library. You have C3 – what’s your opinion on C3? 55:00 – GL: have no strong opinions. 55:03 – Chuck chimes in. 55:18 – Panel continues this conversation. She talks about how she had a hard time learning D3, and how everything clicked once she learned it. 55:55 – GL: Main reason why I didn’t use D3 because... 56:07 – GL: If you were a “real” developer you’d... 56:35 – Panel: Let’s go to Picks! 56:40 – Advertisement – Code Badges Links: JavaScript Ruby on Rails Angular Digital Ocean Code Badge Notion Vue Meltano Looker Node Flux Taylor Python Chart JS React Chris Fritz – JS Fiddle D3 Chris Lema – Building an Online Course... Vuetify The First Vue.js Spring Vue CLI 3.0 Online Tutorials To Help You Get Ahead Hacker Noon – Finding Creativity in Software Engineer Indiegogo Create Awesome Vue.js Apps With... Data Sketches Vue.js in Action Benjamin Hardy’s Website Data Intensive: Don’t Just Hack It Together Article: How to Pick a Career...By Tim Urban Taylor A. Murphy’s Twitter Email: tmurphy@gitlab.com GitLab – Meet our Team Jacob Schatz’s Twitter Sponsors: Kendo UI Digital Ocean Code Badge Cache Fly Picks: Joe Ben Hardy on Medium Set Goals Chris Vue CLI 3 Vue CLI 3 on Medium Vue Dev Tools Get a new computer John Vuetify Divya Data Sketch One climb Finding Creativity in Software Engineering Erik Create Awesome Vue.js Vue.js in action Charles Get a Coder Job Building an online course Jacob Alma CCS Read source code Allen Kay Taylor Designing Data-Intensive Applications Wait But Why