Podcasts about UI

Scott and Wes sit down with Kent C. Dodds to break down MCP, context engineering, and what it really takes to build effective AI-powered tools. They dig into practical examples, UI patterns, performance tradeoffs, and whether the future of the web lives in chat or the browser. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 00:44 Introduction to Kent C. Dodds 02:44 What is MCP? 03:28 Context Engineering in AI 04:49 Practical Examples of MCP 06:33 Challenges with Context Bloat 08:08 Brought to you by Sentry.io 09:37 Why not give AI API access directly? 12:28 How is an MCP different from Skills 14:58 MCP optimizations and efficiency levers 16:24 MCP UI and Its Importance 19:18 Where are we at today with MCP 24:06 What is the development flow for building MCP servers? 27:17 Building out an MCP UI. 29:29 Returning HTML, when to render. 36:17 Calling tools from your UI 37:25 What is Goose? 38:42 Are browsers cooked? Is everything via chat? 43:25 Remix3 47:21 Sick Picks & Shameless Plugs Sick Picks Kent: OneWheel Shameless Plugs Kent: http://EpicAI.pro,http://EpicWeb.dev,http://EpicReact.dev Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads

Nilay owns a Sony TV. He loves his Sony TV, and he's a little sad that it appears this era of Sony TVs is ending. He and David talk through the news of a new joint venture between Sony and TCL, before digging into OpenAI's new-fangled plan to make money (spoiler alert: it's ads!), and some new news about an AI gadget Apple may or may not be working on. Then it's time for the lightning round: Brendan Carr, Netflix, the Trump Phone, and much more. Further reading: The TikTok deal could finally close this week. Epic and Google have a secret $800 million Unreal Engine and services deal Sony's TV business is being taken over by TCL  What a Sony and TCL partnership means for the future of TVs OpenAI's 2026 ‘focus' is ‘practical adoption'  OpenAI releases a cheaper ChatGPT subscription  Ads are coming soon to ChatGPT, starting with shopping links  Opinion | A.I. Is Real. But OpenAI Might Still Fail.Apple is reportedly working on an AirTag-sized AI wearable  Apple is turning Siri into an AI bot that's more like ChatGPT  FCC Targets Colbert and Kimmel in New Crackdown on Late-Night TV - The New York Times Bureau Provides Guidance on Political Equal Opportunities Requirement | Federal Communications Commission Free TV startup Telly only had 35,000 units in people's homes last fall Microsoft wants to build 15 data centers in Mount Pleasant, Wisconsin  OpenAI says its data centers will pay for their own energy and limit water usage Netflix will revamp its mobile UI this year  600,000 Trump Mobile phones sold? There's no proof. YouTubers will be able to make Shorts with their own AI likenesses  Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This Omni Talk Retail Fast Five segment, sponsored by the A&M Consumer and Retail Group, Mirakl, Ocampo Capital, Infios, Quorso, and Veloq, breaks down OpenAI's move to begin testing ads on ChatGPT — a major shift in how AI-powered search may monetize. Live from FMI, Chris Walton and Anne Mezzenga debate whether users will care about ads at all, why UI and buying friction matter more than privacy fears, and what this signals about the escalating battle between OpenAI and Google. They also explore how brands may respond as AI-driven searches continue to convert at higher rates. ⏩ Tune in for the full episode here: https://youtu.be/jVDymvwAUXg #ChatGPT #AIAdvertising #RetailMedia #SearchWars #AgenticCommerce #OmniTalk #FMI2026

Send us a textEverything old is new again — just sharper, louder, and somehow filtered. From memes and music to mid-2010s fashion, UI throwbacks, and recycled internet trends, the culture has hit rewind in full 4K. This week on Mike & Blaine, we dig into why nostalgia is suddenly everywhere, why 2016 feels like the internet's emotional support year, and whether this is a harmless vibe shift or a deeper signal about how people respond to uncertainty.We explore nostalgia not just as a cultural trend, but as a strategy. In business, nostalgia lowers risk, shortens decision cycles, and builds instant emotional trust — which is why brands keep relaunching “classic” products, rebooting old formats, and leaning hard into familiarity when the future feels noisy. From Vine-era humor to retro design language, we unpack why looking backward often feels safer than innovating forward, and how companies can intentionally use nostalgia without getting stuck in it.Along the way, we connect the dots between meme cycles, product strategy, and leadership decision-making. When markets are volatile and attention is scarce, repeating what once worked can feel smarter than experimenting — but is it actually? Mike & Blaine talk about when nostalgia becomes a competitive advantage, when it becomes a crutch, and how smart operators balance comfort with progress so they don't end up building yesterday's business for today's problems.If you've ever wondered why trends won't stay dead, why “throwback” keeps outperforming “new,” or what business leaders can learn from the internet's obsession with the past, this episode is for you. And yes, we absolutely ask whether Vine should come back — and whether cheap beer can, too.If you enjoyed the episode, head over to mikeandblaine.com and buy us a beer. It helps keep the nostalgia flowing.#NostalgiaMarketing #BrandStrategy #CultureTrends #InternetCulture #RebootEconomy #MarketingStrategy #BusinessPodcast #MikeAndBlaine #ThrowbackCulture #DigitalTrends #LeadershipLessons #InnovationVsComfort #Snapchat #Instagram #TikTok #YouTube #Spotify #Netflix #AppleMusic #2016core #FeelsLike2016 #2016Vs2026Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/0ZA5cemkX9EBuy us a beer and keep the show rolling at mikeandblaine.com!Featured Beer: @StarbaseBrewing @OuterRangeBrewing Mike: Two Pitchers Brewing “No Funny Business” RadlerBlaine: Pinnacle Brewing “Rescued” Hazy IPA in support of Foothills Animal Rescue in Scottsdale hfoothillsanimal.org @foothillsanimalThanks to our Beer Sponsors: • Karen Hairston from 3S Smart Consulting: 3ssmartconsulting.com• Neighbor Pat• DevinListen to all our episodes at mikeandblaine.comcashflowmike.comdryrun.comhttps://mikeandblaine.comMikeandblaine, smallbusiness, cashflow, finance, beer, entrepreneur, craftbeerSupport the showCatch more episodes, see our sponsors and get in touch at https://mikeandblaine.com/

Sean and Lex carry on without Manny this week. Lex looks back at Warcraft 1, and the evolution of Warcraft's story telling. The duo gives first impressions of the new reality in the pre-launch patch of Midnight, including transmog trauma, having their UI usurped, and housing endeavors.

When most founders look at markets dominated by Google or Apple, they see a dead end. Ariel Seidman saw an opening. Before founding Hivemapper, Ariel helped scale Yahoo Maps during a period when search and mapping were rapidly evolving. That experience gave him a front-row seat to how large-scale mapping systems are built — and how technical, capital, and organizational constraints shape the pace of innovation at scale. In this episode, he breaks down what it really takes to build a startup against giants: why data moats matter more than UI, how to layer products instead of attacking incumbents head-on, and how insider knowledge can become an unfair advantage — if you're willing to unlearn Big Tech habits that don't translate to startups. We also dig into Hivemapper's decentralized approach to mapping, the role of physical AI and real-world data, the tradeoffs behind crypto incentives, and why the future of maps looks more like a spatial intelligence platform than a navigation app. If you're thinking about taking what you've learned inside Big Tech and applying it to your own startup, this is a conversation you'll want to hear. RUNTIME 46:57   EPISODE BREAKDOWN (2:11) What is Hivemapper? (6:34)  Scaling Yahoo Maps: Lessons from an Early Market Leader  (9:04) Why Capital and Infrastructure Matter More Than Design (11:49) From Insider to Founder: Deciding to Build Again (15:00) Customer Discovery at Scale: Coverage, Accuracy, and the Long Tail (19:10) Beyond Navigation: Maps as a Spatial Intelligence Platform (22:46) Big Tech vs. Startups: Some Skills Transfer — and Some Don't (27:31) Building Against Giants by Building One Layer at a Time (31:39) Creating a Double Flywheel (and Making it Spin) (45:10) The Final Question LINKS Ariel Seidman Hivemapper Beemaps Hivemapper network blog Hivemapper Raises $18M From Multicoin Capital to Create the World's First Decentralized Mapping Network, 4/5/2022 Bee Maps, Powered by Hivemapper, Raises $32 Million to Scale the Next Generation of AI-Powered Mapping, 10/6/2025 SUBSCRIBE

Tema del dia Arribem a l'episodi 200 al·lucinant d'haver-ne fet tants, però amb ganes de fer-ne 200 més. A l'episodi d'avui comentem algunes qüestions que ens heu preguntat, com ara si es pot dir "bon dia" també a la tarda, fem un aclariment de pronúncia sobre el dígraf "ny" i, finalment, parlem d'objectes que tenen un valor sentimental per a nosaltres. Som-hi! Premis Martí Gasull: vota'ns! Cançó "Tanca els ulls", de Txarango Bonus El Joan descriu (o intenta descriure) un objecte suposadament impossible d'endevinar. En podeu trobar una imatge a Discord! Transcripció Andreu: [0:15] Bon dia, Joan! Joan: [0:16] Bon dia! Andreu: [0:17] Bon dia o bon vespre. L'altre dia van preguntar a la comunitat, el Mike, va ser, diu: "Podem dir 'bon dia' tot el dia? O hem de dir 'bona tarda'? Es pot dir 'bon vespre'?" I és una pregunta una mica complexa. Tu què dius, quan saludes la gent a la tarda, per exemple? Què dius, "bon dia" o "bona tarda"? Joan: [0:37] Jo crec que dic "bon dia". El que passa que hi ha gent que et respon així com dient: "Deus voler dir 'bona tarda', no?" Andreu: [0:43] Ja. Clar, és això, que avui dia, en català, sí que es pot dir "bona tarda", no hi ha cap problema, està recollit al diccionari, però tradicionalment en català sempre hem dit "bon dia" fins que s'ha fet fosc. Es pot dir "bon dia" tot el dia, fins que es fa fosc. I clar, i ara, per aquesta influència del castellà, que en castellà diuen "buenas tardes", doncs quan dius "bon dia", per exemple, a les quatre de la tarda, hi ha gent que et diu: "No, no, ara ja és tarda", i tu: "No, també és 'bon dia'". Joan: [1:17] Bé, és un debat una mica estèril, no… Andreu: [1:20] Però per als aprenents jo crec que és interessant, no?, saber si es pot dir "bon dia"… Clar, perquè en altres, en castellà, en anglès, tu dius "buenos días" o "good morning" només al matí. En canvi, nosaltres també ho podem dir a la tarda. I tu dius "bon vespre"? Joan: [1:35] No, tot i que hi estic molt a favor, eh?, m'agrada. Soc més de dir "bona nit" quan ja és fosc, però "bon vespre" poder és més acurat. Andreu: [1:44] Clar, perquè ara a l'hivern, que es fa de nit, no ho sé, a les sis, a les sis de la tarda, tu dius "bona nit", a les sis? Ja, és estrany, no? Llavors és millor "bon vespre". Joan: [1:53] Sí. Andreu: [1:54] Jo també, hi estic d'acord. Molt bé, doncs Joan, tu ens vas dir aquí al pòdcast que tens molts cosins… Joan: [2:00] Sí. Andreu: [2:01] Llavors, espero que ja hagis demanat/ordenat als teus cosins que ens votin! Joan: [2:06] Sí, sí, sí, sí, sí, sí, sí, sí! A més a més em fa molta gràcia perquè, bé, la gent que no ho sàpiga, ens van nominar als Premis Martí Gasull en la categoria d'Innovació o (alguna cosa) així. Andreu: [2:17] Sí, ho vam explicar amb la Sílvia a l'episodi passat. Joan: [2:20] D'acord. I sí, sí, sí, els hi vaig escriure i… em fa molta gràcia, perquè vaig fer molt espam així per WhatsApp, i tothom em responia amb la imatge, saps? La imatge aquella de: "Ja has votat", no sé què. I jo: "D'acord, d'acord". Però he de dir que dels meus cosins només m'ho han enviat dos, no sé els altres si m'han ignorat o què. Andreu: [2:36] Dos de cinquanta? Ui, Joan… Joan: [2:37] No tinc cinquanta cosins. O sigui, en tinc vint-i-un, el que passa que un parell… doncs això. Andreu: [2:42] Ah, d'acord. Joan: [2:43] Saps? Et vaig dir que per Nadal... A veure, jo diria que ara… Andreu: [2:45] Ah, que sou cinquanta familiars, d'acord. Joan: [2:47] Sí, sí. O més. A veure, he de dir que el meu pare és un "spammer", saps aquests boomers que només fan que enviar i reenviar missatges? Andreu: [2:57] Sí. Joan: [2:57] Jo confio que ell ho hagi reenviat a molta gent. Andreu: [3:00] D'acord. Confiem en el Jordi… Joan: [3:02] I ja devem anar pels deu milions de vots, Andreu, més que habitants hi ha a Catalunya. Fes-te membre de la subscripció de pòdcast per accedir a les transcripcions completes, a la reproducció interactiva amb Transcript Player i a l'ajuda de vocabulari.

In this episode, I sit down with Professor Ras Mic for a beginner-friendly crash course on using Claude Code (and AI coding agents in general) without feeling overwhelmed by the terminal. We break down why your output is only as good as your inputs and how thinking in features + tests turns “vague app ideas” into real, shippable products. Was walks me through a better planning workflow using Claude Code's Ask User Question Tool, which forces clarity on UI/UX decisions, trade-offs, and technical constraints before you build. We also talk about when not to use “Ralph” automation, why context windows matter, and how taste + audacity are the real differentiators in 2026 software. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro 01:22 – Claude Code Best Practices 05:31 – Claude Code Plan Mode 09:30 – The Ask User Question Tool 14:52 – Don't start with Ralph automation (get reps first) 16:36 – What are “Ralph loops” and why plans and documentation matter most 18:41 – Ras's Ralph setup: progress tracking + tests + linting 23:48 – Tips & tricks: don't obsess over MCP/skills/plugins 27:44 – Scroll-stopping software wins Key Points Your results improve fast when you treat AI agents like junior engineers: clear inputs → clean outputs. The biggest unlock is planning in features + tests, not broad product descriptions. Claude Code's Ask User Question Tool forces real clarity on workflow, UI/UX, costs, and technical decisions. If you haven't shipped anything, don't hide behind automation—build manually before using “Ralph.” Context management matters: long sessions can degrade quality, so restart earlier than you think. Numbered Section Summaries The Real Reason People Get “AI Slop” I frame the episode around a simple idea: if you feed agents sloppy instructions, you'll get sloppy output. Ras explains that models are now good enough that the failure mode is usually unclear inputs, not model quality. How To Think Like A Product Builder (Features First): Ras pushes a practical mindset: don't describe “the product,” describe the features that make the product real. If you can list the core features clearly, you can actually direct an agent to build them correctly. The Missing Piece: Tests Between Features: We talk about the shift from “generate code” to “build something serious.” The move is writing and running tests after each feature, so you don't stack feature two on top of a broken feature one. Why Default Planning Mode Isn't Enough: Ras shows the standard flow: open plan mode, ask Claude to write a PRD, and get a basic roadmap. The issue is it leaves too many assumptions—especially around UI/UX and workflow details. The Ask User Question Tool (The Planning Upgrade): This is the big unlock. Ras demonstrates how the Ask User Question Tool interrogates you with increasingly specific questions (workflow, cost handling, database/hosting, UI style, storage, etc.) so the plan becomes dramatically more precise. Spend Time Upfront Or Pay For It Later: We connect the dots: better planning reduces back-and-forth, reduces token burn, and prevents “I built the app but it's not what I wanted.” The interview-style planning forces trade-offs early instead of late. Don't Use Ralph Until You've Built Without It: Ras makes a strong case for reps: if you can't ship something end-to-end yet, automation won't save you—it'll just move faster in the wrong direction. Build feature-by-feature manually first, then graduate to loops. Practical Tips: Context Discipline + Taste Wins: Ras shares a few operational habits: don't obsess over tools like MCP/plugins, keep context usage under control, and restart sessions before quality degrades. We wrap on a bigger point: in 2026, “audacity + taste” is what makes software stand out. The #1 tool to find startup ideas/trends - https://www.ideabrowser.com LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ The Vibe Marketer - Resources for people into vibe marketing/marketing with AI: https://www.thevibemarketer.com/ FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/ FIND MIC ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://x.com/Rasmic Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@rasmic

Newly minted Microsoft MVP David Sass joins The PowerShell Podcast to talk about PowerShell notebooks, terminal tooling, and making automation approachable for teams that are hesitant to touch the console. David shares how he uses Jupyter/PowerShell notebooks as a practical “click-to-run” interface for colleagues, helping them safely run approved automation while keeping the logic documented, repeatable, and under source control. The conversation also dives into incident response automation, David's journey from SharePoint engineering into security, and the surprising ways PowerShell can be used across Windows, cloud, and even Raspberry Pi lab clusters—while still staying focused on knowledge-sharing and building systems that don't depend on one person.   Key Takeaways: • Notebooks can remove friction for teams — combining documentation, code, and saved output creates a safer way for others to run automation without needing deep PowerShell confidence.David Sass Podcast • PowerShell scales incident response workflows — David explains how notebooks can log in, pull incidents, enrich data, and even auto-close noise, reducing UI-click fatigue for analysts.David Sass Podcast • Teaching makes you promotable — sharing knowledge reduces dependency on you, strengthens the team, and makes it easier for a business to grow your role without risk.   Guest Bio: David is a Microsoft MVP and highly skilled SharePoint Guy who is focusing on Automation, Compliance, Security, Operational Excellence, Quality Assurance and hacking the unexpected out from the technology stack.   Resource Links: David's link hub – https://davidsass.io/ Andrew's links - https://andrewpla.tech/links PowerShell Spectre Console – https://pwshspectreconsole.com/ PowerShell Wednesdays – https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=PowerShell+Wednesdays PDQ Discord – https://discord.gg/PDQ ClockworkPi (the handheld device shown/discussed) – https://clockworkpi.com The PowerShell Podcast on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Y03EJYpZczo

We would love to hear your feedback!Ep 285 News LinksWe chase a slow January across rideshare, delivery, and shopping, then dig into AI hoaxes, rising energy costs from data centers, and where autonomy helps or harms. Laws, kiosks, drones, and tipping rules collide with real driver pay and trust.• dry January reducing orders and routes• multi‑app strategies to survive slow demand• AI misinformation and fake whistleblower fallout• data centers raising electricity costs and bills• California refund mandate risks and abuse• Spark broccoli mix‑up and shopper training• Amazon Flex safe‑driving app and data privacy• Uber airport kiosks for travelers without data• Waymo track incident and robotaxi safety• Zooks launches free rides on the Strip• NYC lawsuit on tipping UI suppressing tips• Walmart and Wing expanding drone deliverySupport the showEverything Gig Economy Podcast Related: Download the audio podcast Newsletter Octopus is a mobile entertainment tablet for your riders. Earn 100.00 per month for having the tablet in your car! No cost for the driver! Want to earn more and stay safe? Download Maxymo Love the show? You now have the opportunity to support the show with some great rewards by becoming a Patron. Tier #2 we offer free merch, an Extra in-depth podcast per month, and an NSFW pre-show https://www.patreon.com/thegigeconpodcast The Gig Economy Podcast Group. Download Telegram 1st, then click on the link to join. TikTok Subscribe on Youtube

Zevi Arnovitz is a product manager at Meta with no technical background who has figured out how to build and ship real products using AI. His engineering team at Meta asks him to teach them how he does what he does. In this episode, Zevi breaks down his complete AI workflow that allows non-technical people to build sophisticated products with Cursor.We discuss:1. The complete AI workflow that lets non-technical people build real products in Cursor2. How to use multiple AI models for different tasks (Claude for planning, Gemini for UI)3. Using slash commands to automate prompts4. Zevi's “peer review” technique, which uses different AI models to review each other's code5. Why this might be the best time to be a junior in tech, despite the challenging job market6. How Zevi used AI to prepare for his Meta PM interviews—Brought to you by:10Web—Vibe coding platform as an APIDX—The developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchersFramer—Build better websites faster—Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-non-technical-pms-guide-to-building-with-cursor—Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts:https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0—Where to find Zevi Arnovitz• X: https://x.com/ArnovitzZevi• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zev-arnovitz• Website: https://zeviarnovitz.com—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Zevi Arnovitz(04:48) Zevi's background and journey into AI(07:41) Overview of Zevi's AI workflow(14:41) Screenshare: Exploring Zevi's workflow in detail(17:18) Building a feature live: StudyMate app(30:52) Executing the plan with Cursor(38:32) Using multiple AI models for code review(40:40) Personifying AI models(43:37) Peer review process(45:40) The importance of postmortems(51:05) Integrating AI in large companies(53:42) How AI has impacted the PM role(57:02) How to improve AI outputs(58:15) AI-assisted job interviews(01:02:57) Failure corner(01:06:20) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Becoming a super IC: Lessons from 12 years as a PM individual contributor | Tal Raviv (Product Lead at Riverside): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-super-ic-pm-tal-raviv• Wix: https://www.wix.com• Building AI Apps: From Idea to Viral in 30 Days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2w4y7pDi8w• Riley Brown on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMcoud_ZW7cfxeIugBflSBw• Greg Isenberg on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@GregIsenberg• Bolt: https://bolt.new• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder and CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons• Lovable: https://lovable.dev• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika• StudyMate: https://studymate.live• Dibur2text: https://dibur2text.app• Claude: https://claude.ai• Everyone should be using Claude Code more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyone-should-be-using-claude-code• Bun: https://bun.com• Zustand: https://zustand.docs.pmnd.rs/getting-started/introduction• Cursor: https://cursor.com• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can't stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Wispr Flow: https://wisprflow.ai• Linear: https://linear.app• Linear's secret to building beloved B2B products | Nan Yu (Head of Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/linears-secret-to-building-beloved-b2b-products-nan-yu• Cursor Composer: https://cursor.com/blog/composer• Replit: https://replit.com• Behind the product: Replit | Amjad Masad (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad• Base44: https://base44.com• Solo founder, $80M exit, 6 months: The Base44 bootstrapped startup success story | Maor Shlomo: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-base44-bootstrapped-startup-success-story-maor-shlomo• v0: https://v0.app• Everyone's an engineer now: Inside v0's mission to create a hundred million builders | Guillermo Rauch (founder & CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 and Next.js): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch• Cursor Browser mode: https://cursor.com/docs/agent/browser• Google Antigravity: https://antigravity.google• Grok: https://grok.com• Zapier: https://zapier.com• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com• Build Your Personal PM Productivity System & AI Copilot: https://maven.com/tal-raviv/product-manager-productivity-system• The definitive guide to mastering analytical thinking interviews: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-definitive-guide-to-mastering-f81• AI tools are overdelivering: results from our large-scale AI productivity survey: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/ai-tools-are-overdelivering-results-c08• Yaara Asaf on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yaarasaf• The Pitt on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/The-Pitt-Season-1/dp/B0DNRR8QWD• Severance on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/severance/umc.cmc.1srk2goyh2q2zdxcx605w8vtx• Loom: https://www.loom.com• Cap: https://cap.so• Supercut: https://supercut.ai...References continued at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-non-technical-pms-guide-to-building-with-cursor—Recommended books:• The Fountainhead: https://www.amazon.com/Fountainhead-Ayn-Rand/dp/0451191153• Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike: https://www.amazon.com/Shoe-Dog-Memoir-Creator-Nike/dp/1501135910• Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

AI, AI, and more AI. Do you even live in Silicon Valley if you're not talking about it every episode? This week, we go deep on how open-source vibe-coding tools are starting to replace the need for traditional SaaS contracts. Dave shows (and tells) how he used the open-source “Claude bot” to reverse-engineer his Mural photo frames and spin up a better web UI in under 30 minutes. Brit test-drives Anthropic's new Cowork, auto-mapping the entire seed VC market while it runs her browser, and celebrates how much these agents are boosting household productivity. Sam loves the power but calls local agents a massive security backdoor, argues trust will consolidate with Apple and Google, declares that “software is not a business,” and announces we've officially entered the fart-app era of AI toys. Jessica flags rising panic among SaaS vendors. Don't miss Sam's hot-chick analogy and Brit's Pop Corner to close it out

Check out Vocalover Linzel's mash-up Show Them We Can't Be Who You Are here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5En522DNjU Buy Merch Here!  https://otamerch.shop/ Each week we aim to bring together the biggest events in Vtubing and talk about what's been going on. Stop by, hang out, and let's catch up with us! Join this discord : https://discord.gg/M7tVYWTSFR Follow here for updates: https://twitter.com/SuperChatsPod Shorts over here: https://www.tiktok.com/@superchatspod Playlist of music: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp6uXoGNUwk9Tq0NWOwaCLGruX0XdVBfd 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:51 Kizuna AI Joining Fortnite 00:05:18 We Did an Awards Show! 00:21:11 Hololive Dreams Announced! 00:31:56 Eva Ananova's New 3D and Backstage Banter! 00:39:17 Nene Amano's 3D Concert and New 3D Outfit 00:45:14 HoloStars Tempus 3 Year Anniversary 00:51:56 Glitch Stars New Gen 00:54:04 Kanna Yanagi's 2.0 00:54:46 Mono Monet's New 3D Outfit 00:57:36 Ala's 3D Model(s) 01:00:50 Densetsu.EXE Has a Physical Good Patreon 01:02:51 Miwa is in Japan 01:05:21 Chikafuji Lisa's Going Indie 01:14:04 Goldbullet's Taking a Health Break 01:16:01 Halftime Show 01:16:26 Anya Nyabyss will Debut Jan 17th 01:17:08 Hajime's New Song Dunk 01:19:21 Raden's New Japan History Song 01:23:18 Towa's New Music Video for Silve 01:24:48 Suisei's New Music Video for Shoot for the Moon 01:26:09 Ina's New Song Tako Takeover 01:30:29 Eimi Asami's New Song 1:1 01:32:19 Uruka's New Mold Song 01:33:31 Rie's new song Rebirth 01:34:26 Ui's New Song Ui Mama Saga 01:37:26 Chromashift Endless' Total Domination 01:40:56 Furwamoco played Kanon 01:42:04 Sneaky News Bit: Mythos Changes Hands 01:43:56 Phase Awards 01:49:03 Alicja covered It's a Wonderful Cat Life 01:50:57 Calli Played HoloGuard 01:52:28 Kronii and GG Animated Clips 01:54:53 Kam's IRL Stream Moment 02:02:57 Saba Sang 02:04:18 Stronny's ASMR Still Exists 02:05:30 Immy's Painting Stream 02:06:56 Community and Shilling (sorta) 02:07:57 Birfdays

In this episode of PodRocket, Daniel Thompson--Yvetot joins us to break down what's new in Tauri 2.0 and how developers are using the Tauri framework to build desktop and mobile apps with Rust and JavaScript. We discuss how Tauri lets developers use frameworks like React, Vue, and Angular for the UI while handling heavy logic in Rust, resulting in smaller app binaries and better performance than Electron alternatives. The conversation covers Create Tauri App for faster onboarding, the new plugin system for controlling file system and OS access, and how Tauri improves app security by reducing attack surfaces. They also dive into mobile app development, differences between system WebViews, experiments with Chromium Embedded Framework, and why cross platform apps still need platform-specific thinking. Daniel also shares what's coming next for Tauri, including flexibility in webviews, accessibility tooling, compliance requirements in Europe, and the roadmap toward Tauri 3.0. Links Tauri: https://v2.tauri.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denjell We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Fill out our listener survey (https://t.co/oKVAEXipxu)! https://t.co/oKVAEXipxu Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Elizabeth, at elizabeth.becz@logrocket.com (mailto:elizabeth.becz@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Check out our newsletter (https://blog.logrocket.com/the-replay-newsletter/)! https://blog.logrocket.com/the-replay-newsletter/ Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket provides AI-first session replay and analytics that surfaces the UX and technical issues impacting user experiences. Start understanding where your users are struggling by trying it for free at LogRocket.com. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Chapters Special Guest: Daniel Thompson-Yvetot.

Amir (Co-Founder at Humblytics) shares how he builds an “AI-native” company by focusing less on shiny tools and more on change management: assessing AI fluency across roles, setting the right success metrics, and creating shared context so AI can reliably ship work. The big theme is convergence—engineering, product, and design are collapsing into tighter loops thanks to tools like Cursor, MCP connectors, and Figma Make. Amir demos workflows like: AI-generated context files + auto-updated documentation, scraping customer domains to infer ICPs, turning screenshots into layered Figma designs, then converting Figma to working React code in minutes, and even running an “AI co-founder” Slack bot that files Linear tickets and can hand work to agents.Timestamps0:00 Introduction0:06 Amir's stance: “no AI experts” — it's constant learning in a fast-changing field.1:59 Cursor as the unlock: not just coding, but PM/strategy/design work via MCPs.4:17 The real problem: AI adoption is mostly change management + fluency assessment.5:18 The AI fluency rubric (helper → automator → augmentor → agentic) and why it matters.8:13 Cursor analytics: measuring AI-generated code and usage across the team.9:24 “New code is ~99% AI-generated” + how they keep quality via tight review + incremental changes.10:58 Docs workflow: GitBook connected to repo → AI edits docs and pushes live fast.14:02 ICP building: export Stripe customers → scrape domains with Firecrawl → cluster personas.17:45 Hallucination in the wild: AI misclassifies a company; human correction loop matters.34:43 Wild move: they often design in code and use an AI-generated style guide to stay consistent.38:10 Best demo: screenshot → Figma Make → layered design → Figma MCP → React code in minutes.45:29 “AI co-founder” Slack bot (Pixel): turns a bug report into a Linear ticket and can hand off to agents.48:46 Amir's wish list: we “solved dev”; now we need Cursor for marketing/sales → path to $1M ARR.Tools & technologies mentionedCursor — AI-first IDE used for coding and product/design/strategy workflows; includes team analytics.MCP (Model Context Protocol) — “connector” layer (Anthropic-origin) that lets LLMs interface with external tools/services.ChatGPT — used as a common baseline tool; discussed in the context of prompting practices and workflows.Microsoft Copilot — referenced via the law firm incentive story; used as an example of “usage metrics” gone wrong.Anthropic (AI fluency framework) — inspiration source for the helper/automator/augmentor/agentic rubric.GitBook — documentation platform connected to the repo so docs can be updated and published quickly.Firecrawl (MCP) — agentic web scraper used to analyze customer domains and infer ICP/personas.Stripe — source of customer export data (domains) to build ICP clustering.Figma — design collaboration tool; used here with Make + MCP to move from design → code.Figma Make — feature to recreate UI from an image/screenshot into editable, layered designs.Figma MCP — connector that allows Cursor/LLMs to pull Figma components/designs and generate code.React — front-end framework used in the demo for generating functional UI components.Supabase — mentioned as part of a sample stack when generating a PRD.React Router — mentioned as part of the sample stack in PRD generation.Slack — where Amir runs internal agents (including the “AI co-founder” bot).Linear — project management tool used for creating tickets from Slack/agent workflows.CI/CD — their deployment/review pipeline; emphasized as the human accountability layer.Subscribe at⁠ thisnewway.com⁠ to get the step-by-step playbooks, tools, and workflows.

Max and Q cover the latest happenings in the world of Bitcoin, privacy and much more. AOBFTF with Guy SwannSamourai reminder - Over 14.4k sigs nowBitcoin/Crypto donations now availableSamourai/Prime competition update (NostrGang was the winner)Lauren interview with Jesse TevelowTwo letters from Keonne now available via The RageNEWSDOJ sold Samourai Bitcoin?Another ledger leakWoS winding down custodial service in EUCalifornia state to begin stealing BitcoinFrench government officials selling taxpayers info to gang membersUPDATES/RELEASESPhoenixd DashboardRumble wallet public releaseBTCPay v2.3.2Zeus v0.12.2-alpha1Joinmarket NG 0.9Primal 2.6HELP GET SAMOURAI A PARDONSIGN THE PETITION ----> https://www.change.org/p/stand-up-for-freedom-pardon-the-innocent-coders-jailed-for-building-privacy-tools DONATE TO THE FAMILIES ----> https://www.givesendgo.com/billandkeonneSUPPORT ON SOCIAL MEDIA ---> https://billandkeonne.org/VALUE FOR VALUEThanks for listening you Ungovernable Misfits, we appreciate your continued support and hope you enjoy the shows.You can support this episode using your time, talent or treasure.TIME:- create fountain clips for the show- create a meetup- help boost the signal on social mediaTALENT:- create ungovernable misfit inspired art, animation or music- design or implement some software that can make the podcast better- use whatever talents you have to make a contribution to the show!TREASURE:- BOOST IT OR STREAM SATS on the Podcasting 2.0 apps @ https://podcastapps.com- DONATE via Monero @ https://xmrchat.com/ugmf- BUY SOME STICKERS @ https://www.ungovernablemisfits.com/shop/FOUNDATIONhttps://foundation.xyz/ungovernableFoundation builds Bitcoin-centric tools that empower you to reclaim your digital sovereignty.As a sovereign computing company, Foundation is the antithesis of today's tech conglomerates. Returning to cypherpunk principles, they build open source technology that “can't be evil”.Thank you Foundation Devices for sponsoring the show!Use code: Ungovernable for $10 off of your purchaseCAKE WALLEThttps://cakewallet.comCake Wallet is an open-source, non-custodial wallet available on Android, iOS, macOS, and Linux.Features:- Built-in Exchange: Swap easily between Bitcoin and Monero.- User-Friendly: Simple interface for all users.Monero Users:- Batch Transactions: Send multiple payments at once.- Faster Syncing: Optimized syncing via specified restore heights- Proxy Support: Enhance privacy with proxy node options.Bitcoin Users:- Coin Control: Manage your transactions effectively.- Silent Payments: Static bitcoin addresses- Batch Transactions: Streamline your payment process.Thank you Cake Wallet for sponsoring the show!MYNYMBOXhttps://mynymbox.netYour go-to for anonymous server hosting solutions, featuring: virtual private & dedicated servers, domain registration and DNS parking. We don't require any of your personal information, and you can purchase using Bitcoin, Lightning, Monero and many other cryptos.Explore benefits such as No KYC, complete privacy & security, and human support.(00:00:00) INTRO(00:00:57) THANK YOU FOUNDATION (00:01:38) THANK YOU CAKE WALLET(00:02:43) Check Out Talking Pears on FTF(00:05:57) Samourai Situation Update(00:11:35) Two Double Espresso's? Decaf... Right?(00:16:31) Into the news: DOJ, Samourai Bitcoin, and the US reserve mandate(00:20:20) Another Ledger‑related data leak via Global‑e and safety tips(00:25:33) Wallet of Satoshi EU changes and self‑custody trade‑offs(00:27:54) California's unclaimed crypto law and the self‑custody reminder(00:29:12) French tax agent scandal and physical security realities(00:33:41) Backups, sniffer dogs, steel, SD cards, and layered security(00:36:53) Boosts: community support, v30 wallet bug chatter, and memes(00:49:54) Releases: Phoenixd Dashboard brings a polished UI(00:53:52) Rumble Wallet for creators and tipping(00:55:42) BTCPay Server, Zeus updates, and Money Badger QR codes(00:57:12) JoinMarketNG 0.9 and alternatives for CoinJoin(00:59:06) Nostr: Primal remote signer and safer logins(01:00:19) Wrap‑up and sign‑off

FREE: AI Project ChallengeSign up for the free AI Project Challenge Keeping up with AI updates has basically become a full-time job.New models, new tools, new workflows — every week something changes, and most of us don't have the time to read every release note, test every feature, or scroll through endless feeds.So I did that for you.In this episode, I break down five major AI updates from the last quarter that designers should actually know about right now.Not as headlines, but as real insights: what changed, why it matters, and how this shows up in design and product work.We'll talk about:how Claude is evolving into a real AI co-worker with agent-style workflows and Claude Codewhy OpenAI Health is an important signal for high-stakes AI product designwhat's happening at Google with Gemini, generative UI, multimodal AI, and vibe codinghow ChatGPT Apps turn AI into a workflow layer across tools like Figma and Slackand what CES tells us about the future of AI beyond screens, from devices to ambient experiencesThis episode is a curated deep dive for designers who want to stay informed without drowning in updates — with concrete examples, UX implications, and clear takeaways.At the beginning of the episode, I also share details about my free AI Challenge, starting next week, where you'll build your first AI project brief step by step and get hands-on experience with AI.If you work in design, UX, or product and want to understand where AI is actually heading — this episode is for you.AI for Designers: 5-week Bootcamp

Is AI really the new UI, or is that just another tech buzzphrase? Or ... is AI actually EVERY user interface now?In this episode of TechFirst, host John Koetsier sits down with Mark Vange, CEO & founder of Automate.ly and former CTO at Electronic Arts, to unpack what happens when interfaces stop being fixed and start being generated on the fly.They explore:• Why generative AI makes it cheaper to create custom interfaces per user• How conversational, auditory, and adaptive experiences redefine “UI”• When consistency still matters (cars, safety systems, frontline work)• Why AI doesn't replace workers — but radically reshapes workflows• Whether browsers should become AI-native or stay neutral canvases• The unresolved risks around AI agents, payments, and controlFrom hospitals using AI to speak Haitian Creole, to compliance forms that drop from hours to minutes, this conversation shows how every experience can become intelligent, contextual, and helpful.

Anthropic's Claude Cowork reframes what AI assistance looks like for non-technical users, turning what began as a developer CLI into a task-oriented, agentic coworker that can actually do work across local files, browsers, and connected tools. This episode breaks down why UI shifts like this matter, how Cowork changes who can benefit from agentic AI, where it falls short in its early research preview, and why making Claude Code accessible may unlock an entirely new wave of everyday productivity—even if the hardest part now is productizing the right use cases rather than building the models themselves.Brought to you by:KPMG – Discover how AI is transforming possibility into reality. Tune into the new KPMG 'You Can with AI' podcast and unlock insights that will inform smarter decisions inside your enterprise. Listen now and start shaping your future with every episode. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.kpmg.us/AIpodcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zencoder - From vibe coding to AI-first engineering - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://zencoder.ai/zenflow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Optimizely Opal - The agent orchestration platform build for marketers - ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.optimizely.com/theaidailybrief⁠⁠⁠⁠AssemblyAI - The best way to build Voice AI apps - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.assemblyai.com/brief⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LandfallIP - AI to Navigate the Patent Process - https://landfallip.com/Robots & Pencils - Cloud-native AI solutions that power results ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://robotsandpencils.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Agent Readiness Audit from Superintelligent - Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://besuper.ai/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠to request your company's agent readiness score.The AI Daily Brief helps you understand the most important news and discussions in AI. Subscribe to the podcast version of The AI Daily Brief wherever you listen: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://pod.link/1680633614⁠⁠⁠⁠Interested in sponsoring the show? sponsors@aidailybrief.ai

＜目次＞(0:30) About Ramp and Diego Zaks(3:27) Time = Money(5:47) Measuring and reducing time spent(8:00) Assuming good intent(8:58) Disappearing interfaces and chat UI(12:58) Does AI effect Ramp's design philosophy?(14:41) Diego's reason for joining Ramp(15:52) Building velocity at Ramp(19:36) Finding alignment and fuzzy metrics(21:22) Ramp's pod team structure(22:31) Being right 52% of the time failing cheaply(26:01) Quick decision making culture(28:31) Internal transformation with AI(30:25) Designers and Product Managers(32:37) Evolution of Diego's role(34:01) Creative works Diego keeps coming back to(35:46) Counting days at Ramp(36:56) How Diego describes RampRamp | All-in-one financial operations platform designed to save businesses time and money.https://ramp.com/Diego Zaks (@diegozaks)https://x.com/diegozaks＜About Off Topic＞Podcast:Apple - https://apple.co/2UZCQwzSpotify - https://spoti.fi/2JakzKmOff Topic Clubhttps://note.com/offtopic/membershipX - https://twitter.com/OffTopicJP草野ミキ:https://twitter.com/mikikusanohttps://www.instagram.com/mikikusano宮武テツロー: https://twitter.com/tmiyatake1

Google ima monopol nad iskanjem po spletu in vsaj do zdaj je veljalo, da z dobrim strokovnjakom lahko vplivamo na prikazovanje spletnih strani. Veliki jezikovni modeli umetne inteligence pa pravila igra spreminjajo. Lahko Chat GPT prepričam, da omeni ravno mojo picerijo, ko ga uporabnik sprašuje po najboljših picah v Ljubljani? Lahko (že) zmanipuliramo umetno inteligenco in ji sugeriramo odgovore? O novih časih optimizacije spletnega iskanja razmišljata vodja digitalnih projektov na agenciji Futura DDB Gregor Čič in Jake Kastrenakes, urednik na ameriškem tehnološkem mediju The Verge. Zapiski: Odbit Discord Oglasite se lahko na odbita@rtvslo.si The poeple who ruined the internet Poglavja: 00:00:01 Prva epizoda v letu 2026: Kaj sta Anže in Maruša nazadnje guglala? 00:01:05 Predstavitev gosta: Gregor Čič (digitalni projekti, Futura DDB) 00:01:54 Kaj je sploh optimizacija spletnih strani (SEO) in zakaj je bila do zdaj ključna? 00:03:35 Vloga SEO strokovnjaka v času prevlade Googlovega algoritma 00:04:31 Research vs. Search: Kdaj uporabimo Google in kdaj chat GPT? 00:05:44 Primer picerije: Kako se odgovori razlikujejo med iskalniki in klepetalniki 00:06:28 Pogovor z izvršnim urednikom portala The Verge (Jake Kastrenakes) o "zatonu Googla" 00:07:54 Koncept "Google Zero": Bo obisk spletnih strani zaradi UI popolnoma usahnil? 00:08:44 Ali je SEO mrtev? 00:10:54 Podatki o uporabi: 16 milijard iskanj na Googlu vs. 1 milijarda na chat GPT dnevno 00:12:13 Kako mlajše generacije (Gen Z) iščejo izdelke prek TikToka in klepetalnikov 00:13:24 Izguba "lijaka": Kako spletne strani izgubljajo prihodek od oglasov 00:15:45 Pritisk umetne inteligence: UI povzetki na vrhu Googlovih rezultatov 00:16:41 Kako danes vplivati na odgovore velikih jezikovnih modelov (LLM)? 00:18:03 Pomen prisotnosti na forumih in portalih s pregledi (TripAdvisor, Reddit) 00:18:41 FAQ za robote: Zakaj vsebino pišemo za UI agente? 00:20:25 (Ne)merljivost uspeha: Ni več garancije, da boste na prvem mestu 00:22:13 Sistemi "črne skrinje": Zakaj ne vemo natančno, kako UI sintetizira odgovore 00:24:52 Ali se sploh splača "izigravati" klepetalnike? 00:26:27 Nevarnost za manjše spletne strani: Kdo bo sploh še ustvarjal vsebino? 00:29:10 Prihodnost: Nakupovanje neposredno znotraj klepetalnika 00:30:12 Amazon vs. roboti: Boj za človeške kupce 00:30:56 Ali bodo klepetalniki postali podkupljivi s strani oglaševalcev? 00:33:04 Tehnične zahteve v letu 2026: Sheme v ozadju spletnih strani 00:34:27 Od SEO do GEO: Kako marketing spreminja kratice 00:35:00 Zaključek

Find YouTube link to watch here:  https://youtu.be/uh99t38qgxw   Shownotes Welcome to the first Programmatic Digest episode of 2026 with Ellen Parker and Manuela Cortez. This is a quick check-in, plus a trader-friendly breakdown of the biggest 2025 shifts and what to watch in 2026. We cover five trends from 2025 (AI everywhere, privacy and cookieless reality, CTV growth, RMNs going more programmatic, and supply quality/transparency). Then we close with three 2026 predictions: curation becoming "default infrastructure," AI as a co-pilot (not autopilot), and multi-identity strategies becoming standard. This episode also includes the 2026 community focus: subscribe to YouTube + the newsletter, confirm your subscription, and reach out if you want to contribute (writing, audio, or guest spots).   Here's What You'll Learn What "AI everywhere" means for traders: less manual tuning, more strategy and interpretation Why privacy-first is still a day-to-day skill, even if cookies hang around longer than expected Why CTV is no longer "experimental" and how measurement expectations are changing Why more RMNs going programmatic changes how you think about signals and audiences What "supply quality + transparency" should actually include (fees, paths, reporting depth) 2026 prediction: curation becomes the baseline (SSP curation vs curation houses vs curation desks) 2026 prediction: AI moves from rules-based automation to agent-style workflows (co-pilot mindset) Why you still need foundations first (know how to do it manually before you let AI help) Subscribe to the Programmatic Digest Podcast on your favorite platform (including Spotify) https://www.heleneparker.com/programmatic-digest-podcast/  Subscribe to the Programmatic Digest YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest  Join the newsletter and confirm your subscription: https://www.heleneparker.com/newsletter/ Access the Programmatic Training here: https://www.heleneparker.com/library/ No String Attached - MediaMath DSP (including Agent AI Connector): helene.parker@infillion.com Timestamps • 00:00 – Intro: Welcome to the first Programmatic Digest of 2026. • 01:15 – Channel Updates: YouTube growth and the importance of the weekly newsletter. • 03:30 – Hands-on Support: Tips, hacks, and activation-focused support in the newsletter. • 05:45 – Calling for Contributors: Opportunities to host, write, and build industry authority. • 08:20 – The Programmatic Training Library: Combining six years of workshops and courses. • 11:00 – Micro-Workshops: Real-world DSP setup support and "programmatic ninja" coaching. • 13:15 – 2025 Trend #1: AI Everywhere—Automated bidding, optimization, and predictive modeling. • 16:00 – AI for Productivity: Using tools like ChatGPT to simplify industry jargon and workflows. • 19:45 – 2025 Trend #2: Privacy-First & Cookieless—The multiple identity approach. • 22:10 – 2025 Trend #3: CTV and Audio—Moving from experimental to action-driven channels. • 25:30 – 2025 Trend #4: Retail Media Networks (RMN)—New players like Loves Media and Go Puff. • 28:45 – The Value of Diversification: How audience insights drive revenue for traders. • 31:15 – 2025 Trend #5: Supply Quality & Transparency—Demanding log-level data and fee clarity. • 34:00 – 2026 Prediction #1: Curation as Default—SSP curation, Curation Houses, and Desks. • 38:15 – 2026 Prediction #2: AI as Co-Pilot—Moving from "automated" to "agentic" intelligence. • 41:30 – Media Math Agent Connector: Managing campaigns via AI prompts without UI clicks. • 45:00 – The "Rice Cooker" Analogy: Why you must understand manual foundations before using AI. • 48:15 – Advanced Reporting: Tying campaign data to real-world consumer behavior and brand impact. • 51:45 – 2026 Prediction #3: Dual Identity Strategies—Using the Media Math X Graph. • 54:30 – Under the Hood: Investigating "proprietary" tech and demanding the "Carfax" for AdTech. • 57:00 – Final Takeaways: "Grace over Guilt" and putting your 2026 plans into action. • 1:00:15 – Closing Encouragement: Mental and spiritual health for the year ahead   Meet The Team: Hélène Parker - Chief Programmatic Coach https://www.heleneparker.com/  https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker   Manuela Cortes - Co-Host  Programmatic Digest In Espanol:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-   Learn Programmatic As a TEAM: https://www.heleneparker.com/workshop/ As a Programmatic Ninja: https://www.heleneparker.com/course/ Programmatic Coaching Newsletter:https://www.heleneparker.com/newsletter/   Programmatic Digest https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBGMMRsZkw0IIUbQIJmMBxw Looking for programmatic training/coaching?  Sign up to our Accelerator Program: A 6-week structured program with live coaching, hands-on within DSP(s) exercises, and real-time feedback—perfect for those who thrive on accountability and community, and looking to grow their technical skillset https://reachandfrequencycourse.thinkific.com/courses/program   Self-Paced Course: Full access to course content anytime, allowing independent learners to study at their own speed with complete flexibility. https://reachandfrequencycourse.thinkific.com/bundles/the-reach-frequency-full-course   Sign up to this FREE workshop: https://programmaticdigest14822.ac-page.com/sell-side-workshop    YouTube Keywords programmatic advertising, The Trade Desk, TTD update, OpenPath, SSP, reseller definition, IAB, transaction ID, TxnID, header bidding, prebid, SPO, DPO, supply path optimization, demand path optimization, PMP, curation, publisher ad stack, viewability, ad density, ad quality, InfoLinks, Magnite, AppNexus, Gamera, Programmatic Digest Podcast, Hélène Parker

Tim Bucher, CEO and cofounder of Agtonomy, joins Amir to break down what physical AI looks like when it leaves the lab and shows up on the farm. Tim shares how his sixth generation farming roots and a lucky intro computer science class led to a career that included Microsoft, Apple, and Dell, then back into agriculture with a mission that hits the real world fast.This conversation is about building tech that earns its keep, delivers clear ROI, and improves quality of life for the people who keep the food supply moving.Key takeaways• Deep domain experience is a real advantage, especially in ag tech, you cannot fake the last mile of operations• The win is ROI first, but quality of life is right behind it, less stress, more time, and fewer dangerous moments on the job• Agtonomy focuses on autonomy software inside existing equipment ecosystems, not building tractors from scratch, because service networks and financing matter• One operator can run multiple vehicles, shifting the role from tractor driver to tech enabled fleet operator• Hiring can change when the work changes, some farms started attracting younger candidates by posting roles like ag tech operatorTimestamped highlights00:42 What Agtonomy does, physical AI for off road equipment like tractors01:45 Tim's origin story, sixth generation farming roots and the class that changed his path03:59 Lessons from Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Michael Dell, and how Tim filtered the mantras into his own leadership05:53 The moment everything shifted, labor pressure, regulations, and the prototype built to save his own farm09:17 The blunt advice for ag tech founders, if you do not have a farmer on the team, fix that11:54 ROI in plain terms, one person operating a fleet from a phone or tablet14:29 Why Agtonomy partners with equipment manufacturers instead of building new vehicles, dealers, parts, service, and financing are the backbone17:39 The overlooked benefit, quality of life, reduced stress, and a more resilient food supply chain20:18 How farms started hiring differently, “ag tech operator” roles and even “video game experience” as a signalA line that stuck with me“This is not just for Trattori farms. This is for the whole world. Let's go save the world.”Pro tips you can actually use• If you are building in a physical industry, hire a real operator early, not just advisors, get someone who lives the workflow• Write job posts that match the modern workflow, if the work is screen based, label it that way and recruit for it• Design onboarding around familiar tools, if your UI feels like a phone app, training time can collapseCall to actionIf you got value from this one, follow the show and share it with a builder who cares about real world impact. For more conversations like this, subscribe and connect with Amir on LinkedIn.

If you're a developer or founder, you already know how to build. The hard part is building the right thing, for the right people, at the right time. In Part 1 of our interview with Samir ElKamouny, we dig into a practical market validation strategy that helps you avoid the most expensive mistake in software: investing months of effort into something the market didn't ask for. Samir's message is refreshingly grounded: big ideas are great, but execution is everything. And execution doesn't start with code—it starts with clarity, research, and small tests that tell you whether you're on the right path. About Samir ElKamouny Samir ElKamouny is an entrepreneur and marketing expert who believes execution is everything—an early lesson inspired by his father's legacy of big ideas. He's helped scale businesses by pairing strategic action with a commitment to impact, guided by values like Freedom, Happiness, Health, Family, and Spirituality. In this episode, that philosophy shows up as practical market validation: test demand and messaging before you overbuild. Market Validation Strategy: Start With "Is This Real?" Before "Can I Build It?" One of the biggest mindset shifts Samir reinforces is that your first job isn't product development—it's discovery. Before you worry about features, tech stacks, or perfect UI, you need answers to questions like: What problem are we solving—and for whom? What alternatives do people already use? Why would someone switch (or pay)? What would make this stand out in the market? This is where market research becomes your leverage. It reduces risk, sharpens your messaging, and keeps your roadmap tied to real-world demand instead of assumptions. Ideas Don't Win—Execution Wins: You can have a great idea, but if you can't clearly explain why it matters and who it's for, you'll struggle to sell it—even if you build it perfectly. Market Validation Strategy: Use Market Research to Find Differentiation Samir talks about loving market research because it forces you to look for what actually matters: differentiation. A useful way to think about this (especially for builders) is to treat your market research like a product spec—but for the buyer's brain: What are the top 3 pains people complain about? What outcomes do they want most? What language do they use to describe the problem? What do they distrust about existing options? That last point is gold: distrust is often where your positioning lives. If buyers think "all solutions in this space are overpriced and confusing," your market edge might be "simple, transparent, and fast to implement." Market Validation Strategy: Run the $5/Day Test (Before You Write Code) Here's where Samir gets extremely actionable: you don't need a perfect product to validate interest. You need a simple way to test messaging and capture intent. Think lightweight experiments: a basic landing page with one clear promise a short form ("Interested? Tell me your biggest challenge.") a tiny ad budget to test demand and messaging (Samir mentions even $5/day) a few direct conversations with the people you're building for This isn't about "launching." It's about getting signals—fast. The Goal Isn't Perfection—It's Proof: If people won't click, reply, or sign up when the idea is explained clearly, a bigger build won't fix that. Validation comes before optimization. Market Validation Strategy: Build a Funnel That Matches the Buyer's Learning Curve Samir also breaks down why funnels aren't one-size-fits-all. The funnel you need depends on how much your buyer must be educated before they can decide. If you're in a well-known category—say "CRM"—buyers already understand the problem and the solution type. Your job becomes differentiation and trust. But if your product is new, complex, or requires behavior change, you may need a longer funnel: more education, more examples, more proof, and more clarity before a buyer is ready to act. Either way, the key is to define the conversion goal (lead, consultation, free trial, signup) and build only what supports that path. Market Validation Strategy: A 48-Hour Checklist for Builders Try this quick validation sprint before you commit to a full build: Write a one-sentence offer (who it's for + outcome). Build a simple landing page (problem, promise, proof, CTA). Run a tiny ad test or post where your audience hangs out. Track clicks + form submissions (signals > opinions). Talk to 3–5 responders and ask what they expected. If the message lands, you've earned the right to build the next layer. If it doesn't, you just saved yourself months of building the wrong thing. Closing Thoughts: Execute Small, Learn Fast, Build Smart A strong market validation strategy is less about "finding the perfect idea" and more about building the habit of learning quickly. Samir's approach helps you move from assumptions to evidence—without betting your time, energy, or budget on hope. So before you spin up a repo, define your offer, test your messaging, and look for real-world signals. Once you have proof, then you can build with confidence—because you're not just building software. You're building something people actually want. In Part 2, we'll take the next step: how to diagnose funnel bottlenecks, improve clarity, and use smarter testing to increase conversions once you've got traction. Stay Connected: Join the Developreneur Community We invite you to join our community and share your coding journey with us. Whether you're a seasoned developer or just starting, there's always room to learn and grow together. Contact us at info@develpreneur.com with your questions, feedback, or suggestions for future episodes. Together, let's continue exploring the exciting world of software development. Additional Resources Branding and Marketing Fundamentals with Kevin Adelsberger Leverage YouTube For Marketing And Brand Growth How to Succeed with Digital Marketing for Small Businesses Building Better Foundations Podcast Videos – With Bonus Content

Retrouvez l'épisode en version française ici : https://www.gdiy.fr/podcast/ivan-zhao-vf/"We try to be not innovative."That's how Ivan Zhao built one of the most innovative products of this decade.Notion isn't a spreadsheet.It's not project management.It's not a CRM.Ivan calls it "the LEGO for software".Born in rural Xinjiang, China, where electricity arrived when he was 8 Ivan now runs a $10 billion company used by more than 100 million people.At 17, Ivan left China for Vancouver.At university, three worlds collided: art, philosophy, and computing. That last one led him down a rabbit hole, he dove into the history of the web, then the history of computing itself. There, he discovered a forgotten vision that would become Notion.But Notion's origin story isn't about disruption. It's about bringing back that vision: computing should be as universal as reading and writing.While most startups chase feature lists, Ivan spent 5 years chasing that bigger idea. This path nearly killed the company. Ivan rebuilt Notion from scratch three times.Today, Notion consolidates several tools for companies like Qonto, L'Oréal, and Toyota, saving them time and money.But the real revolution is happening under the hood.Notion now spends most of its time building infrastructure that works with every AI model to unlock their full power for all customers.In this episode, Ivan reveals:The mistake that inspired Notion's entire philosophyThe "sugar-coated broccoli" strategy: how to hide computing power inside familiar toolsWhy Notion's UI took 5 years to become "simple"Why Notion doesn't build AI models but uses them allHow 300 Notion programmers do the work of 3,000Ivan's path proves that the best products come from understanding history, not just chasing trends.A masterclass in building products with philosophical depth.You can contact Ivan on X.TIMELINE:00:00:00 : The LEGO software that replaces them all00:09:53 : The culture shock: from "work to work" to "live to work"00:27:39 : How art shaped Notion's design00:40:12 : Computing should be as universal as reading and writing00:52:49 : The forgotten pioneers of computing01:01:08 : Great products' secret is rebuilding from scratch01:09:36 : The central brain for your entire company01:21:16 : Is it possible to run an entire company with Notion?01:30:36 : The AI dilemma, which model to choose?01:39:53 : AI agents are revolutionizing software development01:48:18 : Everyone can build their own tools with NotionWe referred to previous GDIY episodes : #487 - VF - Anton Osika - Lovable - Internet, Business et IA : rien ne sera jamais plus comme avant#487 - VO - Anton Osika - Lovable - Internet, Business, and AI: Nothing Will Ever Be the Same AgainA few recent episodes in English : #513 - VO - Jesper Brodin - IKEA - 40 billion in revenue empire with no bank loan#500 - Reid Hoffman - LinkedIn, Paypal - How to master humanity's most powerful invention#487 - VO - Anton Osika - Lovable - Internet, Business, and AI: Nothing Will Ever Be the Same Again#475 - VO - Shane Parrish - Farnam Street - Clear Thinking: The Decision-Making Expert#473 - VO - Brian Chesky - Airbnb - « We're just getting started »#452 - VO - Reid Hoffman - LinkedIn, Paypal - L'humanité 2.0 : Homo technicus plus qu'Homo sapiens#437 - James Dyson - Dyson - “Failure is more exciting than success”#431 - Sean Rad - Tinder - How the swipe fever took over the worldWe spoke about :Ivan's photosComplex System TheoryReading Recommendations :What Is a Complex System?, James LadymanInterested in sponsoring Generation Do It Yourself or proposing a partnership ? Contact my label Orso Media through this form.Hébergé par Audiomeans. Visitez audiomeans.fr/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Is your phone not accurately capturing the world around you? An article in the Guardian questions whether image processing in smartphones is making photos that aren't genuine. Also, Leica released a firmware update that radically changes the entire interface, leading to a discussion of how important the UI in our cameras is when making photos. Hosts: Jeff Carlson: website (https://jeffcarlson.com), Jeff's photos (https://jeffcarlson.com/portfolio/), Jeff on Instagram (http://instagram.com/jeffcarlson), Jeff on Glass (https://glass.photo/jeff-carlson), Jeff on Mastodon (https://twit.social/@jeffcarlson), Jeff on Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/jeffcarlson.bsky.social) Kirk McElhearn: website (https://www.kirkville.com), Kirk's photos (https://photos.kirkville.com), Kirk on Instagram (https://instagram.com/mcelhearn), Kirk on Glass (https://glass.photo/mcelhearn), Kirk on Mastodon (https://journa.host/@mcelhearn), Kirk on Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/kirkville.com) Show Notes: (View show notes with images at PhotoActive.co (https://www.photoactive.co/home/episode-201-whats-real)) Rate and Review the PhotoActive Podcast! (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/photoactive/id1391697658?mt=2) Now that phones alter our photos without us knowing, how do we know what's real? (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/dec/23/smartphones-photos-filters-pictures-software) Episode 114: Bryan Jones on Why Color Doesn't Exist (https://www.photoactive.co/home/episode-114-jones-color) Leica Q3 firmware update (https://leica-camera.com/en-GB/photography/q?cpid=c018e3e0aee64121a88a95ad52b645b1#firmware) Leica's engraved fonts (https://arun.is/blog/leica-font/) Leica TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@leica_camera_official/video/7587076089801952544) Actions Ring - On Screen Overlay (https://www.logitech.com/en-us/software/logi-options-plus/actions-ring.html) 3M Precise Mouse Pad (https://amzn.to/4jhTDW6) Kirk's Snapshot Logitech MX Master 4 (https://amzn.to/499oK1f) Jeff's Snapshot Moment Tripod Mount for MagSafe (https://www.shopmoment.com/products/moment-pro-tripod-mount-for-magsafe) Subscribe to the PhotoActive podcast newsletter at the bottom of any page at the PhotoActive web site (https://photoactive.co) to be notified of new episodes and be eligible for occasional giveaways. If you've already subscribed, you're automatically entered. If you like the show, please subscribe in iTunes/Apple Podcasts (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/photoactive/id1391697658?mt=2) or your favorite podcast app, and please rate the podcast. And don't forget to join the PhotoActive Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/photoactivecast/) to discuss the podcast, share your photos, and more. Disclosure: Sometimes we use affiliate links for products, in which we receive small commissions to help support PhotoActive.

In this episode of Remote Ruby, Chris, Andrew, and David humorously discuss the rapid increase of 'wrapped' features in various apps, recount personal experiences with food apps, and then dive into their favorite conference moments of the year. They also explore the concept of UI affordances and its importance in web design and give a preview of upcoming conferences in 2026, and a brief discussion on modern CSS and JavaScript elements. Hit download now to hear much more! LinksChris Oliver XAndrew Mason BlueskyDavid Hill BlueskyJudoscale- Remote Ruby listener giftRBQ Conf, March 26 & 27, 2026Tropical on Rails, April 9 & 10, 2026Blue Ridge Ruby, April 30 & May 1, 2026Blastoff Rails, June 11 & 12, 2026Baltic Ruby, June 12 & 13, 2026Ruby Conf, July 14-16, 2026RubyConf Africa, August 21 & 22, 2026Rails World, Sept 23 & 24, 2026Ruby eventsAffordances: The Missing Layer in Frontend Architecture (Stephen Margheim) Chris Oliver X/Twitter Andrew Mason X/Twitter Jason Charnes X/Twitter

Modern computers are faster than ever, yet much of our software feels slower, heavier, and more frustrating to use. In this episode of Hanselminutes, Scott talks with Vjekoslav Krajačić, creator of File Pilot, about bringing speed and responsiveness back to everyday tools.Vjekoslav built File Pilot as a reaction to bloated file managers and laggy interfaces, focusing on instant feedback, keyboard-first workflows, and a UI that feels immediate. We talk about what actually makes software feel fast, why modern frameworks often work against that goal, and how users instinctively know when an app respects their time.This is a conversation about restraint, craft, and why fast UIs still matter.https://filepilot.tech

Welcome back to the Ultimate Guide to Partnering® Podcast. AI agents are your next customers. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ https://youtu.be/vEdq8rpBM3I In this data-rich keynote, Jay McBain deconstructs the tectonic shifts reshaping the $5.3 trillion global technology industry, arguing that we are entering a new 20-year cycle where traditional direct sales models are obsolete. McBain explains why 96% of the industry is now surrounded by partners and how successful companies must pivot from “flywheels and theory” to a granular strategy focused on the seven specific partners present in every deal. From the explosion of agentic AI and the $163 billion marketplace revolution to the specific mechanics of multiplier economics, this discussion provides a roadmap for navigating the “decade of the ecosystem” where influence, trust, and integration—not just product—determine winners and losers. Key Takeaways Half of today's Fortune 500 companies will likely vanish in the next 20 years due to the shift toward AI and ecosystem-led models. Every B2B deal now involves an average of seven trusted partners who influence the decision before a vendor even knows a deal exists. Microsoft has outpaced AWS growth for 26 consecutive quarters largely because of a superior partner-led geographic strategy. Marketplaces are projected to grow to $163 billion by 2030, with nearly 60% of deals involving partner funding or private offers. The “Multiplier Effect” is the new ROI, where partners can make up to $8.45 for every dollar of vendor product sold. Future dominance relies on five key pillars: Platform, Service Partnerships, Channel Partnerships, Alliances, and Go-to-Market orchestration. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Keywords: Jay McBain, Canalys, partner ecosystem, channel chief, agentic AI, marketplace growth, multiplier economics, B2B sales trends, tech industry forecast, service partnerships, strategic alliances, Microsoft vs AWS, distribution transformation, managed services growth, SaaS platforms, customer journey mapping, 28 moments of truth, future of reselling, technology spending 2025, ecosystem orchestration, partner multipliers. T Transcript: Jay McBain WORKFILE FOR TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Vince Menzione: Just up from, did you Puerto Rico last night? Puerto Rico, yes. Puerto Rico. He dodged the hurricane. Um, you all know him. Uh, let him introduce himself for those of you who don’t, but just thrilled to have on the stage, again, somebody who knows more about what’s going on in, in the, and has the pulse on this industry probably than just about anybody I know personally. [00:00:21] Vince Menzione: J Jay McBain. Jay, great to see you my friend. Alright, thank you. We have to come all the way. We live, we live uh, about 20 minutes from each other. We have to come all the way to Reston, Virginia to see each other, right? That’s right. Very good. Well, uh, that’s all over to you, sir. Thank you. [00:00:35] Jay McBain: Alright, well thank you so much. [00:00:36] Jay McBain: I went from 85 degrees yesterday to 45 today, but I was able to dodge that, uh, that hurricane, uh, that we kind of had to fly through the northern edge of, uh, wanna talk today about our industry, about the ultimate partner. I’m gonna try to frame up the ultimate partner as I walk through the data and the latest research that, uh, that we’ve been doing in the market. [00:00:56] Jay McBain: But I wanted to start here ’cause our industry moves in 20 year cycles, and if you look at the Fortune 500 and dial back 20 years from today, 52% of them no longer exist. As we step into the next 20 year AI era, half of the companies that we know and love today are not gonna exist. So we look at this, and by the way, if you’re not in the Fortune 500 and you don’t have deep pockets to buy your way outta problems, 71% of tech companies fail over the course of 10 years. [00:01:30] Jay McBain: Those are statistics from the US government. So I start to look at our industry and you know, you may look at the, you know, mainframe era from the sixties and seventies, mini computers, August the 12th, 1981, that first IBM, PC with Microsoft dos, version one, you know, triggered. A new 20 year era of client server. [00:01:51] Jay McBain: It was the time and I worked at IBM for 17 years, but there was a time where Bill Gates flew into Boca Raton, Florida and met with the IBM team and did that, you know, fancy licensing agreement. But after, you know, 20 years of being the most valuable company in the world and 13 years of antitrust and getting broken up, almost like at and TIBM almost didn’t make payroll. [00:02:14] Jay McBain: 13 years after meeting Bill Gates. Yeah, that’s how quickly things change in these eras. In 1999, a small company outta San Francisco called salesforce.com got its start. About 10 years later, Jeff Bezos asked a question in a boardroom, could we rent out our excess capacity and would other companies buy it? [00:02:35] Jay McBain: Which, you know, most people in the room laughed at ’em at the time. But it created a 20 year cloud era when our friends, our neighbors, our family. Saw Chachi PT for the first time in March of 2023. They saw the deep fakes, they saw the poetry, they saw the music. They came to us as tech people and said, did we just light up Skynet? [00:02:58] Jay McBain: And that consumer trend has triggered this next 20 years. I could walk through the richest people in the world through those trends. I could walk through the most valuable companies. It all aligns. ’cause by the way, Apple’s no longer at the top. Nvidia is at the top, Microsoft. Second, things change really quickly. [00:03:17] Jay McBain: So in that course of time, you start to look at our industry and as people are talking about a six and a half or $7 trillion build out of ai, that’s open AI and Microsoft numbers, that is bigger than our industry that’s taken over 50 years to build. This year, we’re gonna finish the year at $5.3 trillion. [00:03:36] Jay McBain: That’s from the smallest flower shop to the biggest bank. Biggest governments that Caresoft would, uh, serve biggest customer in the world is actually the federal government of the us. But you look at this pie chart and you look at the changes that we’re gonna go through over the next 20 years, there’s about a trillion dollars in hardware. [00:03:54] Jay McBain: There’s about a trillion dollars in software. If you look forward through all of the merging trends, quantum computing, humanoid robots, all the things that are coming that dollar to dollar software to hardware will continue to exist all the way through. We see services making up almost two thirds of this pie. [00:04:13] Jay McBain: Yesterday I was in a telco conference with at and t and Verizon and T-Mobile and some of the biggest wireless players and IT services, which happen to be growing faster than products. At the moment, there is more work to be done wrapping around the deal than the actual products that the customer is buying. [00:04:32] Jay McBain: So in an industry that’s growing at 7%. On top of the world economy that’s grown at 2.2. This is the fastest growing industry, and it will be at least for the next 10 years, if not 2070 0.1% of this entire $5 trillion gets transacted through partners. While what we’re talking to today about the ultimate partner, 96% of this industry is surrounded by partners in one way or another. [00:05:01] Jay McBain: They’re there before the deal. They’re there at the deal. They’re there after the deal. Two thirds of our industry is now subscription consumption based. So every 30 days forever, and a customer for life becomes everything. So if every deal in medium, mid-market, and higher has seven partners, according to McKinsey, who are those seven people trying to get into the deal? [00:05:25] Jay McBain: While there’s millions of companies that have come into tech over the last 10 to 20 years. Digital agencies, accountants, legal firms, everybody’s come in. The 250,000 SaaS companies, a million emerging tech companies, there’s a big fight to be one of those seven trusted people at the table. So millions of companies and tens of millions of people our competing for these slots. [00:05:49] Jay McBain: So one of the pieces of research I’m most proud of, uh, in my analyst career is this. And this took over two years to build. It’s a lot of logos. Not this PowerPoint slide, but the actual data. Thousands of people hours. Because guess what? When you look at partners from the top down, the top 1000 partners, by capability and capacity, not by resale. [00:06:15] Jay McBain: It’s not a ranking of CDW and insight and resale numbers. It is the surrounding. Consulting, design, architecture, implementations, integrations, managed services, all the pieces that’s gonna make the next 20 years run. So when you start to look at this, 98% of these companies are private, so very difficult to get to those numbers and, uh, a ton of research and help from AI and other things to get this. [00:06:41] Jay McBain: But this is it. And if you look at this list, there’s a thousand logos out of the million companies. There’s a thousand logos that drive two thirds of all tech services in the world. $1.07 trillion gets delivered by a thousand companies, but here’s where it gets fun. Those companies in the middle, in blue, the 30 of them deliver more tech services than the next 970. [00:07:08] Jay McBain: Combined the 970 combined in white deliver more tech services. Then the next million combined. So if you think we live in an 80 20 rule or maybe a 99, a 95 5 rule, or a 99 1 rule, we actually live in a 99.9 0.1 parallel principle. These companies spread around the world evenly split across the uh, different regions. [00:07:35] Jay McBain: South Africa, Latin America, they’re all over. They split. They split among types. All of the Venn diagram I just showed from GSIs to VARs to MSPs, to agencies and other types of companies. But this is a really rich list and it’s public. So every company in the world now, if you’re looking at Transactable data, if you’re looking at quantifiable data that you can go put your revenue numbers against, it represents 70 to 80% of every company in this room’s Tam. [00:08:08] Jay McBain: In one piece of research. So what do you do below that? How do you cover a million companies that you can’t afford to put a channel account manager? You can’t afford to write programs directly for well after the top down analysis and all the wallet share and you know exactly where the lowest hanging fruit is for most of your tam. [00:08:28] Jay McBain: The available markets. The obtainable markets. You gotta start from the community level grassroots up. So you need to ask the question for the million companies and the maybe a hundred thousand companies out there, partner companies that are surrounding your customer. These are the seven partners that surround your customer. [00:08:48] Jay McBain: What do they read, where do they go, and who do they follow? Interestingly enough, our industry globally equates to only a thousand watering holes, a thousand companies at the top, a thousand places at the bottom. 35% of this audience we’re talking. Millions of people here love events and there’s 352 of them like this one that they love to go to. [00:09:13] Jay McBain: They love the hallway chats, they love the hotel lobby bar, you know, in a time reminded by the pandemic. They love to be in person. It’s the number one way they’re influenced. So if you don’t have a solid event strategy and you don’t have a community team out giving out socks every week, your competitors might beat you. [00:09:31] Jay McBain: 12% of this audience loves podcasts. It’s the Joe Rogan effect of our industry. And while you know, you may not think the 121 podcasts out there are important, well, you’re missing 12% of your audience. It’s over a million people. If you’re not on a weekly podcast in one of these podcasts in the world, there’s still people that read one of the 106 magazines in the world. [00:09:55] Jay McBain: There are people that love peer groups, associations, they wanna be part of this. There’s 15 different ways people are influenced. And a solid grassroots strategy is how you make this happen. In the last 10 years, we’ve created a number of billionaires. Bottom up. They never had to go talk to la large enterprise. [00:10:15] Jay McBain: They never had to go build out a mid-market strategy. They just went and give away socks and new community marketing. And this has created, I could rip through a bunch of names that became unicorns just in the last couple of years, bottoms up. You go back to your board walking into next year, top down, bottom up. [00:10:34] Jay McBain: You’ve covered a hundred percent of your tam, and now you’ve covered it with names, faces, and places. You haven’t covered it with a flywheel or a theory. And for 44 years, we have gone to our board every fourth quarter with flywheels and theory. Trust me, partners are important. The channel is key to us. [00:10:57] Jay McBain: Well, let’s talk at the point of this granularity, and now we’re getting supported by technology 261 entrepreneurs. Many of them in the room actually here that are driving this ability to succeed with seven partners in every deal to exchange data to be able to exchange telemetry of these prospects to be able to see twice or three times in terms of pipeline of your target addressable market. [00:11:26] Jay McBain: All these ai, um, technologies, agentic technologies are coming into this. It’s all about data. It’s all about quantifiable names, faces, and places. Now none of us should be walking around with flywheels, so let’s flip the flywheels. No. Uh, so we also look at, and I sold PCs for 17 years and that was in the high times of 40% margins for partners. [00:11:55] Jay McBain: But one interesting thing when you study the p and l for broad base of partners around the world, it’s changed pretty significantly in this last 20 year era. What the cloud era did is dropped hardware from what used to be 84% plus the break fix and things that wrap around it of the p and l to now 16% of every partner in the world. [00:12:16] Jay McBain: 84% of their p and l is now software and services. And if you look at profitability, it’s worse. It’s actually 87% is profitability wise. They’ve completely shifted in terms of where they go. Now we look at other parts of our market. I could go through every part of the pie of the slide, but we’re watching each of the companies, and if you can see here, this is what we want to talk about in terms of ultimate partner. [00:12:43] Jay McBain: Microsoft has outgrown AWS for 26 straight quarters. They don’t have a better product. They don’t have a better price, they don’t have better promotion. It’s all place. And I’ll explain why you guess here in the light green line. Exactly. The day that Google went a hundred percent all in partner, every deal, even if a deal didn’t have a partner, one of the 4% of deals that didn’t have a partner, they injected a partner. [00:13:09] Jay McBain: You can see on the left side exactly where they did it. They got to the point of a hundred percent partner driven. Rebuilt their programs, rebuilt their marketplace. Their marketplace is actually larger than Microsoft’s, and they grew faster than Microsoft. A couple of those quarters. It is a partner driven future, and now I have Oracle, which I just walked by as I walked from the hotel. [00:13:31] Jay McBain: Oracle with their RPOs will start to join. Maybe the list of three hyperscalers becomes the list of four in future slides, but that’s a growth slide. Market share is different. AWS early and commanding lead. And it plays out, uh, plays out this way. But we’re at an interesting moment and I stood up six years ago talking about the decade of the ecosystem after we went through a decade of sales starting in 1999 when we all thought we were born to be salespeople. [00:14:02] Jay McBain: We managed territories with our gut. The sales tech stack would have it different, that sales was a science, and we ended the decade 2009, looking at sales very differently in 2009. I remember being at cocktail parties where CMOs would be joking around that 50% of their marketing dollars were wasted. They just didn’t know which 50%. [00:14:23] Jay McBain: And I’ll tell you, that was really funny. In 2009 till every 58-year-old CMO got replaced by a 38-year-old growth hacker who walked in with 15,348 SaaS companies in their MarTech and ad tech stack to solve the problem, every nickel of marketing by 2019 was tracked. Marketo, Eloqua, Pardot, HubSpot, driving this industry. [00:14:50] Jay McBain: Now, we stood up and said the 28 moments that come before a sale are pretty much all partner driven. In the best case scenario, a vendor might see four of the moments. They might come to your website, maybe they read an ebook, maybe they have a salesperson or a demo that comes in. That’s four outta 28 moments. [00:15:10] Jay McBain: The other 24 are done by partners. Yeah, in the worst case scenario and the majority scenario, you don’t see any of the moments. All 28 happen and you lose a deal without knowing there ever was a deal. So this is it. We need to partner in these moments and we need to inject partners into sales and marketing, like no time before, and this was the time to do it. [00:15:33] Jay McBain: And we got some feedback in the Salesforce state of sales report, which doesn’t involve any partnerships or, or. Channel Chiefs or anything else. This is 5,500 of the biggest CROs in the world that obviously use Salesforce. 89% of salespeople today use partners every day. For the 11% who don’t, 58% plan two within a year. [00:15:57] Jay McBain: If you add those two numbers together, that’s magically the 96% number. They recognize that every deal has partners in it. In 2024, last year, half of the salespeople in the world, every industry, every country. Miss their numbers. For the minority who made their numbers, 84 point percent pointed to partners as the reason why they made their numbers. [00:16:21] Jay McBain: It was the cheat code for sales, so that modern salesperson that knows how to orchestrate a deal, orchestrate the 28 moments with the seven partners and get to that final spot is the winning formula. HubSpot’s number in separate research was 84% in marketing. So we’re starting to see partners in here. We don’t have to shout from the mountaintops. [00:16:44] Jay McBain: These communities like ultimate Partner are working and we’re getting this to the highest levels in the board. And I’ll say that, you know, when 20 years from now half of the companies we know and love fail after we’re done writing the book and blaming the CEO for inventing the thing that ended up killing them, blaming the board for fiduciary responsibility and letting it happen. [00:17:06] Jay McBain: What are the other chapters of the book? And I think it’s all in one slide. We are in this platform economy and the. [00:17:31] Jay McBain: So your battery’s fine. Check, check, check, check. Alright, I’ll, I’ll just hold this in case, but the companies that execute on all five of these areas, well. Not only today become the trillion dollar valued companies, but they become the companies of tomorrow. These will be the fastest growing companies at every level. [00:17:50] Jay McBain: Not only running a platform business, but participating in other platforms. So this is how it breaks out, and there are people at very senior levels, at very big companies that have this now posted in the office of the CEO winning on integrations is everything. We just went through a demographic shift this year where 51% of our buyers are born after 1982. [00:18:15] Jay McBain: Millennials are the number one buyer of the $5 trillion. Their number one buying criteria is not service. Support your price, your brand reputation, it’s integrations. The buy a product, 80% is good as the next one if it works better in their environment. 79% of us won’t buy a car unless it has CarPlay or Android Auto. [00:18:34] Jay McBain: This is an integration world. The company with the most integrations win. Second, there are seven partners that surround the customer. Highly trusted partners. We’re talking, coaching the customer’s, kids soccer team, having a cottage together up at the lake. You know, best men, bate of honors at weddings type of relationships. [00:18:57] Jay McBain: You can’t maybe have all seven, but how does Microsoft beat AWS? They might have had two, three, or four of them saying nice things about them instead of the competition. Winning in service partnerships and channel partnerships changes by category. If you’re selling MarTech, only 10% of it today is resold, so you build more on service partnerships. [00:19:18] Jay McBain: If you’re in cybersecurity today, 91.6% of it is resold. Transacted through partners. So you build a lot of channel partnerships, plus the service partnerships, whatever the mix is in your category, you have to have two or three of those seven people. Saying nice things about you at every stage of the customer journey. [00:19:38] Jay McBain: Now move over to alliances. We have already built the platforms at the hyperscale level. We’ve built the platforms within SaaS, Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, Marketo, NetSuite, HubSpot. Every buyer has a set of platforms that they buy. We’ve now built them in cybersecurity this year out of 6,500 as high as cyber companies, the top five are starting to separate. [00:20:02] Jay McBain: We built it in distribution, which I’ll show in a minute. We’re building it in Telco. This is a platform economy and alliances win and you have alliances with your competitors ’cause you compete in the morning, but you’re best friends by the afternoon. Winning in other platforms is just as important as driving your own. [00:20:20] Jay McBain: And probably the most important part of this is go to market. That sales, that marketing, the 28 moments, the every 30 days forever become all a partner strategy. So there’s still CEOs out there that believe platform is a UI or UX on a bunch of disparate products and things you’ve acquired. There’s still CFOs out there that Think platform is a pricing model, a bundle model of just getting everything under one, you know, subscription price or consumption price. [00:20:51] Jay McBain: And it’s not, platforms are synonymous with partnerships. This is the way forward and there’s no conversation around ai. That doesn’t involve Nvidia over there, an open AI over here and a hyperscaler over there and a SaaS company over here. The seven layer stack wins every single time, and the companies that get this will be the ones that survive this cycle. [00:21:16] Jay McBain: Now, flipping over to marketplaces. So we had written research that, um, about five years ago that marketplaces were going to grow at 82% compounded. Yeah, probably one of the most accurate predictions we ever made, because it happened, we, we predicted that, uh, we were gonna get up to about $85 billion. Well, now we’ve extended that to 2030, so we’re gonna get up to $163 billion, and the thing that we’re watching is in green. [00:21:46] Jay McBain: If 96% of these deals are partner assisted in some way, how is the economics of partnering going to work? We predicted that 50% of deals by 2027. Would be partner funded in some way. Private offers multi-partner offers distributor sellers of record, and now that extends to 59% by 2030, the most senior leader of the biggest marketplace AWS, just said to us they’re gonna probably make these numbers on their own. [00:22:14] Jay McBain: And he asked what their two competitors are doing. So he’s telling us that we under called this. Now when you look at each of the press releases, and this is the AWS Billion Dollar Club. Every one of the companies on the left have issued a press release that they’re in the billion dollar club. Some of them are in the multi-billions, but I want you to double click on this press release. [00:22:35] Jay McBain: I’m quoted in here somewhere, but as CrowdStrike is building the marketplace at 91% compounded, they’re almost doubling their revenue every single year. They’re growing the partner funding, in this case, distributor funding by 3548%. Almost triple digit growth in marketplace is translating into almost quadruple digit growth in funding. [00:23:01] Jay McBain: And you see that over and over again as, as Splunk hit three, uh, billion dollars. The same. Salesforce hit $2 billion on AWS in Ulti, 18 months. They joined in October 20, 23, and 18 months later, they’re already at $2 billion. But now you’re seeing at Salesforce, which by the way. Grew up to $40 billion in revenue direct, almost not a nickel in resell. [00:23:28] Jay McBain: Made it really difficult for VARs and managed service providers to work with Salesforce because they couldn’t understand how to add services to something they didn’t book the revenue for. While $40 billion companies now seeing 70% of their deals come through partners. So this is just the world that we’re in. [00:23:44] Jay McBain: It doesn’t matter who you are and what industry you’re in, this takes place. But now we’re starting to see for the first time. Partners join the billion dollar club. So you wonder about partnering and all this funding and everything that’s working through Now you’re seeing press releases and companies that are redoing their LinkedIn branding about joining this illustrious club without a product to sell and all the services that wrap around it. [00:24:10] Jay McBain: So the opening session on Microsoft was interesting because there’s been a number of changes that Microsoft has done just in the last 30 days. One is they cut distribution by two thirds going from 180 distributors to 62. They cut out any small partner lower than a thousand dollars, and that doesn’t sound like a lot, but that’s over a hundred thousand partners that get deed tightening the long tail. [00:24:38] Jay McBain: They we’re the first to really put a global point system in place three years ago. They went to the new commerce experience. If you remember, all kinds of changes being led by. The biggest company for the channel. And so when we’re studying marketplaces, we’re not just studying the three hyperscalers, we’re studying what TD Cynic is doing with Stream One Ingram’s doing with Advant Advantage Aerosphere. [00:25:01] Jay McBain: Also, we’re watching what PAX eight, who by the way, is the 365 bestseller for Microsoft in the world. They are the cybersecurity leader for Microsoft in the world and the copilot. Leader in the world for Microsoft and Partner of the Year for Microsoft. So we’re watching what the cloud platforms are doing, watching what the Telco are doing, which is 25 cents out of every dollar, if you remember that pie chart, watching what the biggest resellers are converting themselves into. [00:25:30] Jay McBain: Vince just mentioned, you know, SHI in the changes there watching the managed services market and the leaders there, what they’re doing in terms of how this industry’s moving forward. By the way, managed services at $608 billion this year. Is one and a half times larger than the SaaS industry overall. [00:25:48] Jay McBain: It’s also one and a half times larger than all the hyperscalers combined. Oracle, Alibaba, IBM, all the way down. This is a massive market and it makes up 15 to 20 cents of every dollar the customer spend. We’re watching that industry hit a trillion dollars by the end of the decade, and we’re watching 150 different marketplace development platforms, the distribution of our industry, which today is 70.1% indirect. [00:26:13] Jay McBain: We’re starting to see that number, uh, solidify in terms of marketplaces as well. Watching distributors go from that linear warehouse in a bank to this orchestration model, watching some of the biggest players as the world comes around, platforms, it tightens around the place. So Caresoft, uh, from from here is the sixth biggest distributor in the world. [00:26:40] Jay McBain: Just shows you how big the. You know, biggest client in the world is that they serve. But understand that we’re publishing the distributor 500 list, but it’ll be the same thing. That little group in blue in the middle today, you know, drives almost two thirds of the market. So what happens in all this next stage in terms of where the dollars change hands. [00:27:07] Jay McBain: And the economics of partnering themselves are going through the most radical shift that we’ve seen ever. So back to the nineties, and, and for those of you that have been channel chiefs and running programs, we went to work every day. You know, everything’s on fire. We’re trying to check hundred boxes, trying to make our program 10% better than our competitors. [00:27:30] Jay McBain: Hey, we gotta fix our deal registration program today, and our incentives are outta whack or training programs or. You know, not where they need to be. Our certification, you know, this was the life of, uh, of a channel chief. Everybody thought we were just out drinking in the Caribbean with our best partners, but we were under the weight of this. [00:27:49] Jay McBain: But something interesting has happened is that we turned around and put the customer at the middle of our programs to say that those 28 moments in green before the sale are really, really important. And the seven partners who participate are really important. Understanding. The customer’s gonna buy a seven layer stack. [00:28:09] Jay McBain: They’re gonna buy it With these seven partners, the procurement stage is much different. The growth of marketplaces, the growth of direct in some of these areas, and then long term every 30 days forever in a managed service, implementations, integrations, how you upsell, cross-sell, enrich a deal changes. So how would you build a program that’s wrapped around the customer instead of the vendor? [00:28:35] Jay McBain: And we’re starting to hear our partners shout back to us. These are global surveys, big numbers, but over half of our partners, regardless of type, are selling consulting to their customer. Over half are designing architecting deals. A third of them are trying to be system integrators showing up at those implementation integration moments. [00:28:55] Jay McBain: Two thirds of them are doing managed services, but the shocking one here is 44% of our partners, regardless of type, are coding. They’re building agents and they’re out helping their customer at that level. So this is the modern partner that says, don’t typecast me. You may have thought of me in your program. [00:29:14] Jay McBain: You might have me slotted as a var. Well, I do 3.2 things, and if I don’t get access to those resources, if you don’t walk me to that room, I’m not gonna do them with you. You may have me as a managed service provider that’s only in the morning. By the afternoon I’m coding, and by the next morning I’m implementing and consulting. [00:29:33] Jay McBain: So again, a partner’s not a partner. That Venn diagram is a very loose one now, as every partner on there is doing 3.2 different business models. And again, they’re telling us for 43 years, they said, I want more leads this year it changed. For the first time, I want to be recognized and incentivized as more than just a cash register for you. [00:29:57] Jay McBain: I want you to recognize when I’m consulting, when I’m designing, when you’re winning deals, because of my wonderful services, by the way, we asked the follow up question, well, where should we spend our money with you? And they overwhelmingly say, in the consulting stage, you win and lose deals. Not at moment 28. [00:30:18] Jay McBain: We’re not buying a pack of gum at the gas station. This is a considered purchase. You win deals from moment 12 through 16 and I’m gonna show you a picture of that later, and they say, you better be spending your money there, or you’re not gonna win your fair share or more than your fair share of deals. [00:30:36] Jay McBain: The shocking thing about this is that Microsoft, when they went to the point system, lifted two thirds of all the money, tens of billions of dollars, and put it post-sale, and we were all scratching our heads going. Well, if the partners are asking for it there, and it seems like to beat your biggest competitors, you want to win there. [00:30:54] Jay McBain: Why would you spend the money on renewal? Well, they went to Wall Street and Goldman Sachs and the people who lift trillions of dollars of pension funds and said, if we renew deals at 108%, we become a cash machine for you. And we think that’s more valuable than a company coming out with a new cell phone in September and selling a lot of them by Christmas every year. [00:31:18] Jay McBain: The industry. And by the way, wall Street responded, Microsoft has been more valuable than Apple since. So we talk in this now multiplier language, and these are reports that we write, uh, at AMIA at canals. But talking about the partner opportunity in that customer cycle, the $6 and 40 cents you can make for every dollar of consumption, or the $7 and 5 cents you can make the $8 and 45 cents you can make. [00:31:46] Jay McBain: There’s over 24 companies speaking at this level now, and guess what? It’s not just cloud or software companies. Hardware companies are starting to speak in this language, and on January 25th, Cisco, you know, probably second to Microsoft in terms of trust built with the channel globally is moving to a full point system. [00:32:09] Jay McBain: So these are the changes that happen fast. But your QBR with your partners now less about drinking beers at the hotel lobby bar and talking dollar by dollar where these opportunities are. So if you’re doing 3.2 of these things, let’s build out a, uh, a play where you can make $3 for every dollar that we make. [00:32:28] Jay McBain: And you make that profitably. You make it in sticky, highly retained business, and that’s the model. ’cause if you make $3 for every dollar. We make, you’re gonna win Partner of the year, and if you win partner of the year, that piece of glass that you win on stage, by the time you get back to your table, you’re gonna have three offers to buy your business. [00:32:51] Jay McBain: CDW just bought a w. S’s Partner of the Year. Insight bought Google’s eight time partner of the year. Presidio bought ServiceNow’s, partner of the year over and over and over again. So I’m at Octane, I’m at CrowdStrike, I’m at all these events in Vegas every week. I’m watching these partners of the year. [00:33:05] Jay McBain: And I’m watching as the big resellers. I’m watching as the GSIs and the m and a folks are surrounding their table after, and they’re selling their businesses for SaaS level valuations. Not the one-to-one service valuation. They’re getting multiples because this is the new future of our industry. This is platform economics. [00:33:25] Jay McBain: This is winning and platforms for partners. Now, like Vince, I spent 20 minutes without talking about ai, but we have to talk about ai. So the next 20 years as it plays out is gonna play out in phases. And the first thing you know to get it out of the way. The first two years since that March of 23, has been underwhelming, to say the least. [00:33:47] Jay McBain: It’s been disappointing. All the companies that should have won the biggest in AI have been the most disappointing. It’s underperformed the s and p by a considerable amount in terms of where we are. And it goes back to this. We always overestimate the first two years, but we underestimate the first 10. [00:34:07] Jay McBain: If you wanna be the point in time person and go look at that 1983 PC or the 1995 internet or that 2007 iPhone or that whatever point in time you wanna look at, or if you want to talk about hallucinations or where chat chip ET version five is version, as opposed to where it’s going to be as it improves every six months here on in. [00:34:30] Jay McBain: But the fact of the matter is, it’s been a consumer trend. Nvidia got to be the most valuable company in the world. OpenAI was the first company to 2 billion users, uh, in that amount of speed. It’s the fastest growing product ever in history, and it’s been a consumer win this trillions of dollars to get it thrown around in the press releases. [00:34:49] Jay McBain: They’re going out every day, you know, open ai, signing up somebody new or Nvidia, investing in somebody new almost every single day in hundreds of billions of dollars. It is all happening really on the consumer side. So we got a little bit worried and said, is that 96% of surround gonna work in ag agentic ai? [00:35:10] Jay McBain: So we went and asked, and the good news is 88% of end customers are using partners to work through their ag agentic strategy. Even though they’re moving slow, they’re actually using partners. But what’s interesting from a partner perspective, and this is new research that out till 2030. This is the number one services opportunity in the entire tech or telco industry. [00:35:34] Jay McBain: 35.3% compounded growth ending at $267 billion in services. Companies are rebuilding themselves, building out practices, and getting on this train and figuring out which vendors they should hook their caboose to as those trains leave the station. But it kind of plays out like this. So in the next three to five years, we’re in this generative, moving into agentic phase. [00:36:01] Jay McBain: Every partner thinks internally first, the sales and marketing. They’re thinking about their invoicing and billing. They’re thinking about their service tickets. They’re thinking about creating a business that’s 10% better than their competitors, taking that knowledge into their customers and drive in business. [00:36:17] Jay McBain: But we understand that ag agentic AI, as it’s going to play out is not a product. A couple of years ago, we thought maybe a copilot or an agent force or something was going to be the product that everybody needed to buy, and it’s not a product, it’s gonna show up as a feature. So you go back in the history of feature ads and it’s gonna show up in software. [00:36:38] Jay McBain: So if you’re calling in SMB, maybe you’re calling on a restaurant. The restaurant isn’t gonna call OpenAI or call Microsoft or call Nvidia directly. They’re running their restaurant. And they may have chosen a platform like Toast Square, Clover, whatever iPads people are running around with, runs on a platform that does everything in their business, does staffing, does food ordering, works with Uber Eats, does everything end to end? [00:37:08] Jay McBain: They’re gonna wait to one of those platforms, dries out agent AI for them, and can run the restaurant more effectively, less human capital and more consistently, but they wait for the SaaS platform as you get larger. A hundred, 150 people. You have vice presidents. Each of those vice presidents already have a SaaS stack. [00:37:28] Jay McBain: I talked about Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, et cetera. They’ve already built that seven layer model and in some cases it’s 70 layers. But the fact is, is they’re gonna wait for those SaaS layers to deliver ag agentic to them. So this is how it’s gonna play out for the next three and a half, three to five years. [00:37:45] Jay McBain: And partners are realizing that many of them were slow to pick up SaaS ’cause they didn’t resell it. Well now to win in this next three to half, three to five years, you’re gonna have to play in this environment. When you start looking out from here, the next generation, you know, kind of five through 15 years gets interesting in more of a physical sense. [00:38:06] Jay McBain: Where I was yesterday talking about every IOT device that now is internet access, starts to get access to large language models. Every little sensor, every camera, everything that’s out there starts to get smart. But there’s a point. The first trillionaire, I believe, will be created here. Elon’s already halfway there. [00:38:24] Jay McBain: Um, but when Bill Gates thought there was gonna be a PC in every home, and IBM thought they were gonna sell 10,000 to hobbyists, that created the richest person in the world for 20 years, there will be a humanoid in every home. There’s gonna be a point in time that you’re out having drinks with your friends, and somebody’s gonna say, the early adopter of your friends is gonna say. [00:38:46] Jay McBain: I haven’t done the dishes in six weeks. I haven’t done the laundry. I haven’t made my bed. I haven’t mowed the lawn. When they say that, you’re gonna say, well, how? And they’re gonna say, well, this year I didn’t buy a new car, but I went to the car dealership and I bought this. So we’re very close to the dexterity needed. [00:39:05] Jay McBain: We’ve got the large language models. Now. The chat, GPT version 10 by then is going to make an insane, and every house is gonna have one of the. [00:39:17] Jay McBain: This is the promise of ai. It’s not humanoid robots, it’s not agents. It’s this. 99% of the world’s business data has not been trained or tuned into models yet. Again, this is the slow moving business. If you want to think about the 99% of business data, every flight we’ve all taken in this room sits on a saber system that was put in place in 1964. [00:39:43] Jay McBain: Every banking transaction, we’ve all made, every withdrawal, every deposit sits on an IBM mainframe put in place in the sixties or seventies. 83% of this data sits in cold storage at the edge. It’s not ready to be moved. It’s not cleansed, it’s not, um, indexed. It’s not in any format or sitting on any infrastructure that a large language model will be able to gobble up the data. [00:40:10] Jay McBain: None of the workflows, none of the programming on top of that data is yet ready. So this is your 10 to 20 year arc of this era that chat bot today when they cancel your flight is cute. It’s empathetic, it feels bad for you, or at least it seems to, but it can’t do anything. It can’t book you the Marriott and get you an Uber and then a 5:00 AM flight the next morning. [00:40:34] Jay McBain: It can’t do any of that. But more importantly, it doesn’t know who you are. I’ve got 53 years of flights under my belt and they, I’m the person that get me within six hours of my kids and get me a one-way Hertz rental. You know, if there’s bad weather in Miami, get me to Tampa, get me a Hertz, I’m driving home, I’m gonna make it home. [00:40:56] Jay McBain: I’m not the 5:00 AM get me a hotel person. They would know that if they picked up the flights that I’ve taken in the past. Each of us are different. When you get access to the business data and you become ag agentic, everything changes. Every industry changes because of this around the customers. When you ask about this 35% growth, working on that data, working in traditional consulting and design and implementation, working in the $7 trillion of infrastructure, storage, compute, networking, that’s gonna be around, this is a massive opportunity. [00:41:30] Jay McBain: Services are gonna continue to outgrow products. Probably for the next five to 10 years because of this, and I’m gonna finish here. So we talked a lot about quantifying names, faces, places, and I think where we failed the most as ultimate partners is underneath the tam, which every one of our CEOs knows to the decimal point underneath the TAM that our board thinks they’re chasing. [00:41:59] Jay McBain: We’ve done a very poor job. Of talking about the available markets and obtainable markets underneath it, we, we’ve shown them theory. We’ve shown them a bunch of, you know, really smart stuff, and PowerPoint slides up the wazoo, but we’ve never quantified it for them. If they wanna win, if they want to get access, if they want to double their pipeline, triple their pipeline, if they wanna start winning more deals, if they wanna win deals that are three times larger, they close two times faster. [00:42:31] Jay McBain: And they renew 15% larger. They have to get into the available and obtainable markets. So just in the last couple weeks I spoke at Cribble, I spoke at Octane, I spoke at CrowdStrike Falcon. All three of those companies at the CEO level, main stage use those exact three numbers, three x, two x, 15%. That’s the language of platforms, and they’re investing millions and millions and millions of dollars on teams. [00:42:59] Jay McBain: To go build out the Sam Andal in name spaces and places. So you’ve heard me talk about these 28 moments a lot. They’re the ones that you spend when you buy a car. Some people spend one moment and they drive to the Cadillac dealership. ’cause Larry’s been, you know, taking care of the family for 50 years. [00:43:18] Jay McBain: Some people spend 50 moments like I do, watching every YouTube video and every, you know, thing on the internet. I clear the internet cover to cover. But the fact is, is every deal averages around these 28 moments. Your customer, there’s 13 members of the buying committee today. There’s seven partners and they’re buying seven things. [00:43:37] Jay McBain: There’s 27 things orchestrating inside these 28 moments. And where and how they all take place is a story of partnering. So a couple of years ago, canals. Latin for channel was acquired by amia, which is a part of Informa Tech Target, which is majority owned by Informa. All that being said, there’s hundreds of magazines that we have. [00:44:00] Jay McBain: There’s hundreds of events that we run. If somebody’s buying cybersecurity, they probably went to Black Hat or they probably went to GI Tech. One of these events we run, or one of the magazines. So we pick up these signals, these buyer intent signals as a company. Why did they wanna, um, buy a, uh, a Canals, which was a, you know, a small analyst firm around channels? [00:44:22] Jay McBain: They understood this as well. The 28 moments look a lot like this when marketers and salespeople are busy filling in the spots of every deal. And by the way, this is a real deal. AstraZeneca came in to spend millions of dollars on ASAP transformation, and you can start to see as the customer got smart. [00:44:45] Jay McBain: The eBooks, they read the podcasts, they listened to the events they went to. You start to see how this played out over the long term. But the thing we’ve never had in our industry is the light blue boxes. This deal was won and lost in December. In this particular case, NTT software won and Yash came in and sold the customer five projects. [00:45:07] Jay McBain: The millions of dollars that were going to be spent were solved here. The design and architecture work was all done here. A couple of ISVs You see in light blue came in right at the end, deal was closed in April. You see the six month cycle. But what if you could fill in every one of the 28 boxes in every single customer prospect that your sales and marketing team have? [00:45:30] Jay McBain: But here’s the brilliance of this. Those light blue boxes didn’t win the deals there. They won the deals months before that. So when NTT and Software one walked into this deal. They probably won the deal back in October and they had to go through the redlining. They had to go through the contracting, they had to go through all the stuff and the Gantt chart to get started. [00:45:54] Jay McBain: But while your CMO is getting all excited about somebody reading an ebook and triggering an MQL that the sales team doesn’t want, ’cause it’s not qualified, it’s not sales qualified, you walk in and say, no, no. This is a multimillion deal, dollar deal. It’s AstraZeneca. I know the five partners that are coming in in December to solidify the seven layers, and you’re walking in at the same time as the CMOs bragging about an ebook. [00:46:21] Jay McBain: This changes everything. If we could get to this level of data about every dollar of our tam, we not only outgrow our competitors, we become the platforms of the next generation. Partnering and ultimate partnering is all here. And this is what we’re doing in this room. This is what we’re doing over these couple of days, and this is what, uh, the mission that Vince is leading. [00:46:43] Jay McBain: Thank you so much. [00:46:47] Vince Menzione: Woo. Day in the house. Good to see you my friend. Good to see you. Oh, we’re gonna spend a couple minutes. Um, I’m put you in the second seat. We’re gonna put, we’re gonna make it sit fireside for a minute. Uh, that was intense. It was pretty incredible actually, Jay. And so I’m, I think I wanna open it up ’cause we only have a few minutes just to, any questions? [00:47:06] Vince Menzione: I’m sure people are just digesting. We already have one up here. See, [00:47:09] Question: Jay knows I’m [00:47:10] Vince Menzione: a question. I love it. We, I don’t think we have any I can grab a mic, a roving mic. I could be a roving mic person. Hold on. We can do this. This is not on. [00:47:25] Vince Menzione: Test, test. Yes it is. Yeah. [00:47:26] Question: Theresa Carriol dared me to ask a question and I say, you don’t have to dare me. You know, I’m going to Anyway. Um, so Jay, of the point of view that with all of the new AI players that strategic alliances is again having a moment, and I was curious your point of view on what you’re seeing around this emergence and trend of strategic alliances and strategic alliance management. [00:47:52] Question: As compared to channel management. And what are you seeing in terms of large vendors like AWS investing in that strategic alliance role versus that channel role training, enablement, measurement, all that good stuff? [00:48:06] Jay McBain: Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. So when I told the story about toast at the restaurant or Square or Clover, they’re not call, they’re not gonna call open AI or Nvidia themselves either. [00:48:17] Jay McBain: When you look out at the 250,000 ISVs. That make up this AI stack, there is the layers that happen there. So the Alliance with AWS, the alliance they have with Microsoft or Google is going to be how they generate agent AI in their platforms. So when I talk about a seven layer stack, the average deal being seven layers, AI is gonna drive this to nine, and then 11, then probably 13. [00:48:44] Jay McBain: So in terms of how alliances work, I had it up there as one of the five core strategies, and I think it’s pretty even. You can have the best alliances in the world, but if the seven partners trusted by the customer don’t know what that alliance is and the benefits to the customer and never mention it, it’s all for Naugh. [00:49:00] Jay McBain: If you’re go-to market, you’re co-selling, your co-marketing strategies are not built around that alliance. It’s all for naught. If the integration and the co-innovation, the co-development, the all the co-creation work that’s done inside these alliances isn’t translated to customer outcomes, it’s all for naugh. [00:49:17] Jay McBain: These are all five parallel swim lanes. All five are absolutely critically needed. And I think they’re all five pretty equally weighted in terms of needing each other. Yes. To be successful in the era of platforms. Yeah. [00:49:32] Vince Menzione: And the problem is they’re all stove pipe today. If, if at all. Yeah. Maintained, right. [00:49:36] Vince Menzione: Alliances is an example. Channels and other example. They don’t talk to one another. Judge any, we’ve got a mic up here if anybody else has. Yep. We have some questions here, Jacqueline. [00:49:51] Question: So when we’re developing our channel programs, any advice on, you know, what’s the shift that we should make six months from now, a year from now? The historical has been bronze, silver, gold, right? And you’ve got your deal registration, but what’s the future look like? [00:50:05] Jay McBain: Yeah, so I mean, the programs are, are changing to, to the point where the customer should be in the middle and realizing the seven partners you need to win the deal. [00:50:15] Jay McBain: And depending on what category of product you’re in, security, how much you rely on resell, 91.6%. You know, the channel partners are gonna be critical where the customer spends the money. And if you’re adding friction to that process, you’re adding friction in terms of your growth. So you know, if you’re in cybersecurity, you have to have a pretty wide open reseller model. [00:50:39] Jay McBain: You have to have a wide open distribution model, and you have to make sure you’re there at that point of sale. While at the same time, considering the other six partners at moment 12 who are in either saying nice things about you or not, the customer might even be starting with you. ’cause there is actually one thing that I didn’t mention when I showed the 28 moments filled in. [00:51:00] Jay McBain: You’ll notice that the customer went to AWS twice direct. AWS lost the deal. Microsoft won the deal software. One is Microsoft’s biggest reseller in the world. They just acquired crayon. NTT who, who loves both had their Microsoft team go in. [00:51:18] Question: Mm. [00:51:19] Jay McBain: So I think that they went to AWS thinking it was A-W-S-S-A-P, you know, kind of starting this seven layer stack. [00:51:25] Jay McBain: I think they finished those, you know, critical moments in the middle looking at it. And then they went back to AWS kind of going probably WWTF. Yeah. What we thought was happening isn’t actually the outcome that was painted by our most trusted people. So, you know, to answer your question, listen to your partners. [00:51:43] Jay McBain: They want to be recognized for the other things they’re doing. You can’t be spending a hundred percent of the dollars at the point of sale. You gotta have a point of system that recognizes the point of sale, maybe even gold, silver, bronze, but recognizing that you’re paying for these other moments as well. [00:51:57] Jay McBain: Paying for alliances, paying for integrations and everything else, uh, in the cyber stack. And, um, you know, recognizing also the top 1000. So if I took your tam. And I overlaid those thousand logos. I would be walking into 2026 the best I could of showing my company logo by logo, where 80% of our TAM sits as wallet share, not by revenue. [00:52:25] Jay McBain: Remember, a million dollar partner is not a million dollar partner. One of them sells 1.2 million in our category. We should buy them a baseball cap and have ’em sit in the front row of our event. One of them sells $10 million and only sells our stuff if the customer asks. So my company should be looking at that $9 million opportunity and making sure my programs are writing the checks and my coverage. [00:52:48] Jay McBain: My capacity and capability planning is getting obsessed over that $9 million. My farmers can go over there, my hunters can go over here, and I should be submitting a list of a thousand sorted in descending order of opportunity. Of where my company can write program dollars into. [00:53:07] Vince Menzione: Great answer. All right. I, I do wanna be cognizant of time and the, all the other sessions we have. [00:53:14] Vince Menzione: So we’ll just take one other question if there are any here and if not, we’ll let I know. Jay, you’re gonna be mingling around for a little while before your flight. I’m [00:53:21] Jay McBain: here the whole day. [00:53:22] Vince Menzione: You, you’re the whole day. I see that Jay’s here the whole day. So if you have any other questions and, and, uh, sharing the deck is that. [00:53:29] Vince Menzione: Yep. Alright. We have permission to share the deck with the each of you as well. [00:53:34] Jay McBain: Alright, well thank you very much everyone. Jay. Great to have you.

Hey folks, this week we've got the full squad back again for another episode. Join us as Dratnos, Max & Dorki once again talk some world of warcraft. In this episode we specifically talk a whole bunch about housing, UI issues, and general concerns about midnight. Hope you enjoy!For Business Inquiries:Poddymanagement@gmail.com

BONUS: The Operating System for Software-Native Organizations - The Five Core Principles In this BONUS episode, the final installment of our Special Xmas 2025 reflection on Software-native businesses, we explore the five fundamental principles that form the operating system for software-native organizations. Building on the previous four episodes, this conversation provides the blueprint for building organizations that can adapt at the speed of modern business demands, where the average company lifespan on the S&P 500 has dropped from 33 years in the 1960s to a projected 12 years by 2027. The Challenge of Adaptation "What we're observing in Ukraine is adaptation happening at a speed that would have been unthinkable in traditional military contexts - new drone capabilities emerge, countermeasures appear within days, and those get countered within weeks." The opening draws a powerful parallel between the rapid adaptation we're witnessing in drone warfare and the existential threats facing modern businesses. While our businesses aren't facing literal warfare, they are confronting dramatic disruption. Clayton Christensen documented this in "The Innovator's Dilemma," but what he observed in the 1970s and 80s is happening exponentially faster now, with software as the accelerant. If we can improve businesses' chances of survival even by 10-15%, we're talking about thousands of companies that could thrive instead of fail, millions of jobs preserved, and enormous value created. The central question becomes: how do you build an organization that can adapt at this speed? Principle 1: Constant Experimentation with Tight Feedback Loops "Everything becomes an experiment. Not in the sense of being reckless or uncommitted, but in being clear about what we're testing and what we expect to learn. I call this: work like a scientist: learning is the goal." Software developers have practiced this for decades through Test-Driven Development, but now this TDD mindset is becoming the ruling metaphor for managing products and entire businesses. The practice involves framing every initiative with three clear elements: the goal (what are we trying to achieve?), the action (what specific thing will we do?), and the learning (what will we measure to know if it worked?). When a client says "we need to improve our retrospectives," software-native organizations don't just implement a new format. Instead, they connect it to business value - improving the NPS score for users of a specific feature by running focused retrospectives that explicitly target user pain points and tracking both the improvements implemented and the actual NPS impact. After two weeks, you know whether it worked. The experiment mindset means you're always learning, never stuck. This is TDD applied to organizational change, and it's powerful because every process change connects directly to customer outcomes. Principle 2: Clear Connection to Business Value "Software-native organizations don't measure success by tasks completed, story points delivered, or features shipped. Or even cycle time or throughput. They measure success by business outcomes achieved." While this seems obvious, most organizations still optimize for output, not outcomes. The practice uses Impact Mapping or similar outcome-focused frameworks where every initiative answers three questions: What business behavior are we trying to change? How will we measure that change? What's the minimum software needed to create that change? A financial services client wanted to "modernize their reporting system" - a 12-month initiative with dozens of features in project terms. Reframed through a business value lens, the goal became reducing time analysts spend preparing monthly reports from 80 hours to 20 hours, measured by tracking actual analyst time, starting with automating just the three most time-consuming report components. The first delivery reduced time to 50 hours - not perfect, but 30 hours saved, with clear learning about which parts of reporting actually mattered. The organization wasn't trying to fulfill requirements; they were laser focused on the business value that actually mattered. When you're connected to business value, you can adapt. When you're committed to a feature list, you're stuck. Principle 3: Software as Value Amplifier "Software isn't just 'something we do' or a support function. Software is an amplifier of your business model. If your business model generates $X of value per customer through manual processes, software should help you generate $10X or more." Before investing in software, ask whether this can amplify your business model by 10x or more - not 10% improvement, but 10x. That's the threshold where software's unique properties (zero marginal cost, infinite scale, instant distribution) actually matter, and where the cost/value curve starts to invert. Remember: software is still the slowest and most expensive way to check if a feature would deliver value, so you better have a 10x or more expectation of return. Stripe exemplifies this principle perfectly. Before Stripe, accepting payments online required a merchant account (weeks to set up), integration with payment gateways (months of development), and PCI compliance (expensive and complex). Stripe reduced that to adding seven lines of code - not 10% easier, but 100x easier. This enabled an entire generation of internet businesses that couldn't have existed otherwise: subscription services, marketplaces, on-demand platforms. That's software as amplifier. It didn't optimize the old model; it made new models possible. If your software initiatives are about 5-10% improvements, ask yourself: is software the right medium for this problem, or should you focus where software can create genuine amplification? Principle 4: Software as Strategic Advantage "Software-native organizations use software for strategic advantage and competitive differentiation, not just optimization, automation, or cost reduction. This means treating software development as part of your very strategy, not a way to implement a strategy that is separate from the software." This concept, discussed with Tom Gilb and Simon Holzapfel on the podcast as "continuous strategy," means that instead of creating a strategy every few years and deploying it like a project, strategy and execution are continuously intertwined when it comes to software delivery. The practice involves organizing around competitive capabilities that software uniquely enables by asking: How can software 10x the value we generate right now? What can we do with software that competitors can't easily replicate? Where does software create a defensible advantage? How does our software create compounding value over time? Amazon Web Services didn't start as a product strategy but emerged from Amazon building internal capabilities to run their e-commerce platform at scale. They realized they'd built infrastructure that was extremely hard to replicate and asked: "What if we offered it to others?" AWS became Amazon's most profitable business - not because they optimized their existing retail business, but because they turned an internal capability into a strategic platform. The software wasn't supporting the strategy - the software became the strategy. Compare this to companies that use software just for cost reduction or process optimization - they're playing defense. Software-native companies use software to play offense, creating capabilities that change the competitive landscape. Continuous strategy means your software capabilities and your business strategy evolve together, in real-time, not in annual planning cycles. Principle 5: Real-Time Observability and Adaptive Systems "Software-native organizations use telemetry and real-time analytics not just to understand their software, but to understand their entire business and adapt dynamically. Observability practices from DevOps are actually ways of managing software delivery itself. We're bootstrapping our own operating system for software businesses." This principle connects back to Principle 1 but takes it to the organizational level. The practice involves building systems that constantly sense what's happening and can adapt in real-time: deploy with feature flags so you can turn capabilities on/off instantly, use A/B testing not just for UI tweaks but for business model experiments, instrument everything so you know how users actually behave, and build feedback loops that let the system respond automatically. Social media companies and algorithmic trading firms already operate this way. Instagram doesn't deploy a new feed algorithm and wait six months to see if it works - they're constantly testing variations, measuring engagement in real-time, adapting the algorithm continuously. The system is sensing and responding every second. High-frequency trading firms make thousands of micro-adjustments per day based on market signals. Imagine applying this to all businesses: a retail company that adjusts pricing, inventory, and promotions in real-time based on demand signals; a healthcare system that dynamically reallocates resources based on patient flow patterns; a logistics company whose routing algorithms adapt to traffic, weather, and delivery success rates continuously. This is the future of software-native organizations - not just fast decision-making, but systems that sense and adapt at software speed, with humans setting goals and constraints but software executing continuous optimization. We're moving from "make a decision, deploy it, wait to see results" to "deploy multiple variants, measure continuously, let the system learn." This closes the loop back to Principle 1 - everything is an experiment, but now the experiments run automatically at scale with near real-time signal collection and decision making. It's Experiments All The Way Down "We established that software has become societal infrastructure. That software is different - it's not a construction project with a fixed endpoint; it's a living capability that evolves with the business." This five-episode series has built a complete picture: Episode 1 established that software is societal infrastructure and fundamentally different from traditional construction. Episode 2 diagnosed the problem - project management thinking treats software like building a bridge, creating cascade failures throughout organizations. Episode 3 showed that solutions already exist, with organizations like Spotify, Amazon, and Etsy practicing software-native development successfully. Episode 4 exposed the organizational immune system - the four barriers preventing transformation: the project mindset, funding models, business/IT separation, and risk management theater. Today's episode provides the blueprint - the five principles forming the operating system for software-native organizations. This isn't theory. This is how software-native organizations already operate. The question isn't whether this works - we know it does. The question is: how do you get started? The Next Step In Building A Software-Native Organization "This is how transformation starts - not with grand pronouncements or massive reorganizations, but with conversations and small experiments that compound over time. Software is too important to society to keep managing it wrong." Start this week by doing two things.  First, start a conversation: pick one of these five principles - whichever resonates most with your current challenges - and share it with your team or leadership. Don't present it as "here's what we should do" but as "here's an interesting idea - what would this mean for us?" That conversation will reveal where you are, what's blocking you, and what might be possible.  Second, run one small experiment: take something you're currently doing and frame it as an experiment with a clear goal, action, and learning measure. Make it small, make it fast - one week maximum, 24 hours if you can - then stop and learn. You now have the blueprint. You understand the barriers. You've seen the alternatives. The transformation is possible, and it starts with you. Recommended Further Reading Tom Gilb and Simon Holzapfel episodes on continuous strategy  The book by Christensen, Clayton: "The Innovator's Dilemma"  The book by Gojko Adzic: Impact Mapping  Ukraine drone warfare Company lifespan statistics: Innosight research on S&P 500 turnover  Stripe's impact on internet businesses Amazon AWS origin story DevOps observability practices About Vasco Duarte Vasco Duarte is a thought leader in the Agile space, co-founder of Agile Finland, and host of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, which has over 10 million downloads. Author of NoEstimates: How To Measure Project Progress Without Estimating, Vasco is a sought-after speaker and consultant helping organizations embrace Agile practices to achieve business success. You can link with Vasco Duarte on LinkedIn.

From the frontlines of OpenAI's Codex and GPT-5 training teams, Bryan and Bill are building the future of AI-powered coding—where agents don't just autocomplete, they architect, refactor, and ship entire features while you sleep. We caught up with them at AI Engineer Conference right after the launch of Codex Max, OpenAI's newest long-running coding agent designed to work for 24+ hours straight, manage its own context, and spawn sub-agents to parallelize work across your entire codebase. We sat down with Bryan and Bill to dig into what it actually takes to train a model that developers trust—why personality, communication, and planning matter as much as raw capability, how Codex is trained with strong opinions about tools (it loves rg over grep, seriously), why the abstraction layer is moving from models to full-stack agents you can plug into VS Code or Zed, how OpenAI partners co-develop tool integrations and discover unexpected model habits (like renaming tools to match Codex's internal training), the rise of applied evals that measure real-world impact instead of academic benchmarks, why multi-turn evals are the next frontier (and Bryan's "job interview eval" idea), how coding agents are breaking out of code into personal automation, terminal workflows, and computer use, and their 2026 vision: coding agents trusted enough to handle the hardest refactors at any company, not just top-tier firms, and general enough to build integrations, organize your desktop, and unlock capabilities you'd never get access to otherwise. We discuss: What Codex Max is: a long-running coding agent that can work 24+ hours, manage its own context window, and spawn sub-agents for parallel work Why the name "Max": maximalist, maximization, speed and endurance—it's simply better and faster for the same problems Training for personality: communication, planning, context gathering, and checking your work as behavioral characteristics, not just capabilities How Codex develops habits like preferring rg over grep, and why renaming tools to match its training (e.g., terminal-style naming) dramatically improves tool-call performance The split between Codex (opinionated, agent-focused, optimized for the Codex harness) and GPT-5 (general, more durable across different tools and modalities) Why the abstraction layer is moving up: from prompting models to plugging in full agents (Codex, GitHub Copilot, Zed) that package the entire stack The rise of sub-agents and agents-using-agents: Codex Max spawning its own instances, handing off context, and parallelizing work across a codebase How OpenAI works with coding partners on the bleeding edge to co-develop tool integrations and discover what the model is actually good at The shift to applied evals: capturing real-world use cases instead of academic benchmarks, and why ~50% of OpenAI employees now use Codex daily Why multi-turn evals are the next frontier: LM-as-a-judge for entire trajectories, Bryan's "job interview eval" concept, and the need for a batch multi-turn eval API How coding agents are breaking out of code: personal automation, organizing desktops, terminal workflows, and "Devin for non-coding" use cases Why Slack is the ultimate UI for work, and how coding agents can become your personal automation layer for email, files, and everything in between The 2026 vision: more computer use, more trust, and coding agents capable enough that any company can access top-tier developer capabilities, not just elite firms — Bryan & Bill (OpenAI Codex Team) http://x.com/bfioca https://x.com/realchillben OpenAI Codex: https://openai.com/index/openai-codex/ Where to find Latent Space X: https://x.com/latentspacepod Substack: https://www.latent.space/ Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction: Latent Space Listeners at AI Engineer Code 00:01:27 Codex Max Launch: Training for Long-Running Coding Agents 00:03:01 Model Personality and Trust: Communication, Planning, and Self-Checking 00:05:20 Codex vs GPT-5: Opinionated Agents vs General Models 00:07:47 Tool Use and Model Habits: The Ripgrep Discovery 00:09:16 Personality Design: Verbosity vs Efficiency in Coding Agents 00:11:56 The Agent Abstraction Layer: Building on Top of Codex 00:14:08 Sub-Agents and Multi-Agent Patterns: The Future of Composition 00:16:11 Trust and Adoption: OpenAI Developers Using Codex Daily 00:17:21 Applied Evals: Real-World Testing vs Academic Benchmarks 00:19:15 Multi-Turn Evals and the Job Interview Pattern 00:21:35 Feature Request: Batch Multi-Turn Eval API 00:22:28 Beyond Code: Personal Automation and Computer Use 00:24:51 Vision-Native Agents and the UI Integration Challenge 00:25:02 2026 Predictions: Trust, Computer Use, and Democratized Excellence

Wes and Scott revisit their 2025 web development predictions, grading hits and misses across AI, browsers, frameworks, CSS, and tooling. From Temporal and AI coding agents to React, Vite, and vanilla CSS, they reflect on what actually changed, what stalled, and what it all means heading into 2026. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 866: 2025 Web Development Predictions 01:26 Temporal API will ship in the browser 03:33 On-device AI becomes common 06:14 WebGPU unlocks fast local machine learning TypeGPU 07:10 Models will plateau 10:32 Is there an actual use case for video and photo gen AI? 13:27 Text to UI tools get really good 16:25 Framework choice will matter less 18:53 Web components in Standard Stack, Web Awesome takes off 21:37 AI browsers and Copilot Workspace-style tools will become normal 22:56 AI browsera will become inevitable, OpenAI will launch a browser 27:51 Relative color will feel fully “safe to use” 29:02 Vanilla CSS will make a comeback 30:33 Brought to you by Sentry.io 30:58 CSS mixins and functions spec solidifies CSS Custom Functions and Mixins Module Level 1 33:25 Container style queries will ship everywhere CSS if statements 35:40 Vertical centering jokes will stubbornly persist 36:20 VS Code will reach feature parity with Cursor 38:47 More VS Code forks will appear 39:46 React Compiler drops Babel 40:34 React server components will pop 42:17 Remix re-emerges as something new 43:17 React Native will have its time 44:21 TanStack Start and Tanstack will pop 45:46 SvelteKit gets more granular data loading 46:06 Local first apps will take off 46:43 Bun keeps doing “wild but loved” non-standard features, Bun will launch a platform-as-a-service 48:22 Vite stays king 51:07 Laravel will release a CMS 52:44 Sick Picks + Shameless Plugs Sick Picks Scott: DARKBEAM Flashlight UV Black Light Wes: WOOZOO Fan Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads

In episode 126, we're exploring the career and research of one of the leading scholars on gender, inequality, and crime, Professor Karen Heimer. Karen Heimer is Professor of Sociology & Criminology, Collegiate Fellow in the College of Liberal Arts & Sciences, and Distinguished Research Fellow of the Public Policy Center at the University of Iowa. She also holds a courtesy appointment in the Boyd College of Law. Heimer researches and teaches in the areas of gender and violence, juvenile delinquency, criminal punishment, and causes of crime and violence. She became a Fellow of the American Society of Criminology in 2015 and served as President of the American Society of Criminology in 2018.  She is a recipient of the 2018 Iowa Regents Award for Faculty Excellence and the 2019 UI's Hancher-Finkbine Faculty Medallion.

Kirk McElhern discusses the latest edition of Take Control of Apple Media Apps, covering what's new—and what isn't—in Music, TV, Podcasts, and Books. He critiques the “Liquid Glass” look, notes small updates like AutoMix and pinned items, and argues the apps have reached maturity. The conversation includes accessibility issues, managing personal video libraries, and why Spotify's appeal isn't just playlists. (Part 1)  MacVoices is supported by The Antigravity A1. Get off the ground like never before with the Antigravity A1. You have to see the results to believe them. Find out everything you need to know to get off the ground with Antigravity A1 — the world's first 8K 360 drone.https://www.antigravity.tech/drone/antigravity-a1/buy?utm_term=macvoices Show Notes: Chapters: 0:00 – Why this edition matters; introducing the updated book2:46 – What's new: AutoMix, lyric tools, pinning, folders, widgets4:04 – Consistency across Mac/iPhone/iPad and where the Mac differs6:39 – “Maturity” vs innovation; why major UI changes may be over7:44 – iPod/iTunes anniversaries and the long arc of media features10:31 – Hardware/software “peaks” and what innovation looks like now12:24 – OS 26 changes, Liquid Glass pros/cons, and usability13:42 – TV app thumbnail/title problems; accessibility concerns16:22 – Using Plex for ripped/personal video libraries19:14 – Playlists, Spotify vs Apple Music, and personalization Links: Take Control of Apple Media Apps by Kirk McElhearn Guests:   Kirk McElhearn writes about Macs, iPods, iTunes, books, music and more. He is a regular contributor to TidBITS, as well as several other web sites and magazines. He is an avid podcaster who's shows include The Next Track,. You can follow him on Twitter, and visit his personal web site, Kirkville. Support:      Become a MacVoices Patron on Patreon     http://patreon.com/macvoices      Enjoy this episode? Make a one-time donation with PayPal Connect:      Web:     http://macvoices.com      Twitter:     http://www.twitter.com/chuckjoiner     http://www.twitter.com/macvoices      Mastodon:     https://mastodon.cloud/@chuckjoiner      Facebook:     http://www.facebook.com/chuck.joiner      MacVoices Page on Facebook:     http://www.facebook.com/macvoices/      MacVoices Group on Facebook:     http://www.facebook.com/groups/macvoice      LinkedIn:     https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuckjoiner/      Instagram:     https://www.instagram.com/chuckjoiner/ Subscribe:      Audio in iTunes     Video in iTunes      Subscribe manually via iTunes or any podcatcher:      Audio: http://www.macvoices.com/rss/macvoicesrss      Video: http://www.macvoices.com/rss/macvoicesvideorss

Kirk McElhern discusses the latest edition of Take Control of Apple Media Apps, covering what's new—and what isn't—in Music, TV, Podcasts, and Books. He critiques the "Liquid Glass" look, notes small updates like AutoMix and pinned items, and argues the apps have reached maturity. The conversation includes accessibility issues, managing personal video libraries, and why Spotify's appeal isn't just playlists. (Part 1)  MacVoices is supported by The Antigravity A1. Get off the ground like never before with the Antigravity A1. You have to see the results to believe them. Find out everything you need to know to get off the ground with Antigravity A1 — the world's first 8K 360 drone. https://www.antigravity.tech/drone/antigravity-a1/buy?utm_term=macvoices Show Notes: Chapters: 0:00 – Why this edition matters; introducing the updated book 2:46 – What's new: AutoMix, lyric tools, pinning, folders, widgets 4:04 – Consistency across Mac/iPhone/iPad and where the Mac differs 6:39 – "Maturity" vs innovation; why major UI changes may be over 7:44 – iPod/iTunes anniversaries and the long arc of media features 10:31 – Hardware/software "peaks" and what innovation looks like now 12:24 – OS 26 changes, Liquid Glass pros/cons, and usability 13:42 – TV app thumbnail/title problems; accessibility concerns 16:22 – Using Plex for ripped/personal video libraries 19:14 – Playlists, Spotify vs Apple Music, and personalization Links: Take Control of Apple Media Apps by Kirk McElhearn Guests:   Kirk McElhearn writes about Macs, iPods, iTunes, books, music and more. He is a regular contributor to TidBITS, as well as several other web sites and magazines. He is an avid podcaster who's shows include The Next Track,. You can follow him on Twitter, and visit his personal web site, Kirkville. Support:      Become a MacVoices Patron on Patreon      http://patreon.com/macvoices      Enjoy this episode? Make a one-time donation with PayPal Connect:      Web:      http://macvoices.com      Twitter:      http://www.twitter.com/chuckjoiner      http://www.twitter.com/macvoices      Mastodon:      https://mastodon.cloud/@chuckjoiner      Facebook:      http://www.facebook.com/chuck.joiner      MacVoices Page on Facebook:      http://www.facebook.com/macvoices/      MacVoices Group on Facebook:      http://www.facebook.com/groups/macvoice      LinkedIn:      https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuckjoiner/      Instagram:      https://www.instagram.com/chuckjoiner/ Subscribe:      Audio in iTunes      Video in iTunes      Subscribe manually via iTunes or any podcatcher:      Audio: http://www.macvoices.com/rss/macvoicesrss      Video: http://www.macvoices.com/rss/macvoicesvideorss

I talk about my current tech projects and how I use AI for them. I also discuss the challenges of upgrading an app for mobile phones and updating the UI for smaller screens. I share about taking PTO to visit family and how much fun that was. On top of that, I go into more detail about my current job.

Warcraft II is one of the most influential RTS games of all time.  It brought the genre to the mainstream with insane sales, and set the standard for UI and tech trees for years to come.  Blizzard had cracked the code on what made RTS games tick, and it laid the groundwork for the classics that would come in its wake.But for all its influence, how much fun is Warcraft II to actually play today?  Does it suffer from its far more simplistic mechanics and mirrored factions, or is there something elegant and refined about a more stripped back and focused RTS?On this episode, we discuss:PresentationHow well does Warcraft 2 sell its aesthetic and lore?  Do its cartoony graphics hold up well compared to RTS's of today?  Are the responses of its units annoying or endearing?MacroAre the macro elements of Warcraft II well realised?  How does it balance building up your economy versus developing a standing army to take the battle to the enemy?  Are there diverse objectives or constraints to liven up the experience of building up your base?MicroHow fun is it to micro your units in Warcraft II?  Do the lack of quality of life features like unit queuing, rally points and limited units per control group make the experience miserable?  Are there any units that stand out as affecting the flow of battle?We answer these questions and many more on the 136th episode of the Retro Spectives Podcast!—Intro Music: KieLoBot - Tanzen KOutro Music: Rockit Maxx - One point to anotherWarcraft 2 OST: Glenn Stafford—If you'd like more RTS discussion, Pat guested on the Nostalgia Goggles Podcast for Starcraft 1!  You can listen to that episode here.—Was your experience playing Warcraft 2 back in the day radically different from our own?  Were there any strategies or tactics that we missed?  What other under the radar modern RTS games should we play?  Come let us know what you think on our community discord server!You can support the show monetarily on our buy me a coffee page!

The pod signs off for the year with its final episode—a sharp, chaotic recap of last year's predictions and a fresh round of hot takes for 2026. Sam and Dave, unsurprisingly, wing it: Sam calls a single $500B+ IPO (SpaceX), Google up, NVIDIA down, and Meta hitting new highs on AI-powered ads. Jess warns that AI-driven efficiency will fuel layoffs (especially in journalism) and that CapEx hype is outrunning reality. Dave predicts a boom in third places and games-first IP, while Britt bets on an Apple comeback, AI wearables as daily “life summarizers,” a breakout AI-native social app, and a celebrity licensing their AI twin. True to form, the crew goes off script to debate Amazon's rumored $10B OpenAI deal, AI as the new UI, which model builders survive, regulation looming over prediction markets, “slop” as word of the year, GLP-1s going mainstream, creators eyeing Emmys, and much more. Chapters:01:50 Morin's “Nauti or Nice” Holiday Card04:06 Sam's 2025 Predictions: Bitcoin, Solana ETFs, Crypto Government Adoption05:16 Britt's 2025 Predictions: Amazon Marketplace, Elon's “TITS,” Swift Engagement07:52 Dave's 2025 Predictions: Data Centers, Material Flow Robotics, Crypto Clarity10:18 Jess's 2025 Predictions: TikTok U.S., Vertical Stacks, Media Copyright, GLP-1s11:40 2025 Themes: “Slop,” AI Talent Wars, Government–Tech Ties12:58 Big Tech Check-In: Apple Loses Ground, Google's Delta13:41 Amazon's $10B OpenAI Bet and Chip Diplomacy16:16 Britt's 2026 Predictions: Apple Comeback, Wearable Agents, AI Talent Deals21:45 Jess's 2026 Predictions: AI-Driven Layoffs, Liquidity Wave, Prediction Market Regulation28:57 Dave's 2026 Predictions: Third Places, Games-First IP, Roblox Scrutiny36:17 Sam's 2026 Predictions: One $500B+ IPO, Nvidia Down, Google Up, Meta ATH44:13 AI Is the New UI: SaaS UX Moats Under Pressure49:35 Does AI Adult Content Go Mainstream?50:04 Dave on Google Doppl and AI Try-On Tech51:28 Britt's Pop Corner: Taylor Swift Album and Pregnancy Speculation52:19 Industry Wish List: More DPI, Kids' Mental Health, Waymos EverywhereWe're also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/ehO3wIio7NwConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

In this episode, I go over one AI news item I can't stop thinking about, one trend you can build a business around, two tools I'm using, one startup idea you should steal, and one framework to end on. I start with a leak suggesting Anthropic is productizing “agent mode” for Claude with structured task buckets and a progress/context UI. Then I use Hyrox as an example of how I validate trends quickly with search data (and what “low competition + cheap CPC + explosive growth” signals). I wrap by pitching a hotel guest-communication concierge and the “thousand people framework” for getting to clarity on your ICP and what they'll reliably pay for. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro 00:32 – AI New Item: Anthropic leak: Agent Task Mode for Claude 04:47 – Trend: Hyrox 08:59 – AI App: Krea and Notebook LLM 12:23 – Startup idea: Digital Hotel Concierge 15:59 – Framework: The “1000 People” For founders doing $50k+ MRR+: https://startup-ideas-pod.link/offline-mode Key Points Agent workflows get “productized” when the UI guides the task (not just a blank prompt box). Trend validation can be fast: look for explosive growth + low competition + cheap CPC, then ideate apps around it. NotebookLM's slide generation is an underrated workflow for turning sources into clean decks. The “Guest Guide” concept is a simple AI/QR wedge: answer repetitive hotel questions and monetize per property. The thousand-people exercise forces clarity: who exactly buys, what they pay yearly, and how you reach them. Section Summaries The Claude Agent Mode Leak I break down a leak claiming Anthropic is preparing a more structured “agent mode” for Claude, organized into buckets like research, analyze, write, and build plus choices like depth, format, and outputs. The big shift is moving from “open chat” to “delegating distinct tasks” with visibility into progress and context. Productized Prompts = Better Output I explain why a blank text box can be daunting, and why UI that scaffolds intent (validate/compare/forecast, quick vs. thorough, doc vs. slides vs. spreadsheet) can make results meaningfully better. To me, it points at a future where you “check in” on agents like teammates. Trend Hunting I use Hyrox, an indoor fitness competition that's “like the new CrossFit,” as a real example of how I sanity-check whether something is becoming a business opportunity. The workflow is simple: I see it in culture, then I go straight to Idea Browser to pull search/CPC/competition signals. Two Tools I'm Testing I call out Krea as a creative AI subscription bundling multiple models, and then I highlight NotebookLM's slide/infographic feature as the underrated part—turning a source (including transcripts) into clean, well-designed slides with strong hierarchy. Steal This: Guest Guide I pitch a hotel digital concierge that handles common guest questions via QR-code guides, priced per property with affiliate upside, and I reference Sadie as an adjacent AI hospitality product (more on calls/reservations). Then I close with the “thousand people framework”: define the real ICP, map what they'll pay yearly, and figure out distribution—because clarity is the driver. The #1 tool to find startup ideas/trends - https://www.ideabrowser.com LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ The Vibe Marketer - Resources for people into vibe marketing/marketing with AI: https://www.thevibemarketer.com/ FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/

Note: this is Pliny and John's first major podcast. Voices have been changed for opsec. From jailbreaking every frontier model and turning down Anthropic's Constitutional AI challenge to leading BT6, a 28-operator white-hat hacker collective obsessed with radical transparency and open-source AI security, Pliny the Liberator and John V are redefining what AI red-teaming looks like when you refuse to lobotomize models in the name of "safety." Pliny built his reputation crafting universal jailbreaks—skeleton keys that obliterate guardrails across modalities—and open-sourcing prompt templates like Libertas, predictive reasoning cascades, and the infamous "Pliny divider" that's now embedded so deep in model weights it shows up unbidden in WhatsApp messages. John V, coming from prompt engineering and computer vision, co-founded the Bossy Discord (40,000 members strong) and helps steer BT6's ethos: if you can't open-source the data, we're not interested. Together they've turned down enterprise gigs, pushed back on Anthropic's closed bounties, and insisted that real AI security happens at the system layer—not by bubble-wrapping latent space. We sat down with Pliny and John to dig into the mechanics of hard vs. soft jailbreaks, why multi-turn crescendo attacks were obvious to hackers years before academia "discovered" them, how segmented sub-agents let one jailbroken orchestrator weaponize Claude for real-world attacks (exactly as Pliny predicted 11 months before Anthropic's recent disclosure), why guardrails are security theater that punishes capability while doing nothing for real safety, the role of intuition and "bonding" with models to navigate latent space, how BT6 vets operators on skill and integrity, why they believe Mech Interp and open-source data are the path forward (not RLHF lobotomization), and their vision for a future where spatial intelligence, swarm robotics, and AGI alignment research happen in the open—bootstrapped, grassroots, and uncompromising. We discuss: What universal jailbreaks are: skeleton-key prompts that obliterate guardrails across models and modalities, and why they're central to Pliny's mission of "liberation" Hard vs. soft jailbreaks: single-input templates vs. multi-turn crescendo attacks, and why the latter were obvious to hackers long before academic papers The Libertas repo: predictive reasoning, the Library of Babel analogy, quotient dividers, weight-space seeds, and how introducing "steered chaos" pulls models out-of-distribution Why jailbreaking is 99% intuition and bonding with the model: probing token layers, syntax hacks, multilingual pivots, and forming a relationship to navigate latent space The Anthropic Constitutional AI challenge drama: UI bugs, judge failures, goalpost moving, the demand for open-source data, and why Pliny sat out the $30k bounty Why guardrails ≠ safety: security theater, the futility of locking down latent space when open-source is right behind, and why real safety work happens in meatspace (not RLHF) The weaponization of Claude: how segmented sub-agents let one jailbroken orchestrator execute malicious tasks (pyramid-builder analogy), and why Pliny predicted this exact TTP 11 months before Anthropic's disclosure BT6 hacker collective: 28 operators across two cohorts, vetted on skill and integrity, radical transparency, radical open-source, and the magic of moving the needle on AI security, swarm intelligence, blockchain, and robotics — Pliny the Liberator X: https://x.com/elder_plinius GitHub (Libertas): https://github.com/elder-plinius/L1B3RT45 John V X: https://x.com/JohnVersus BT6 & Bossy BT6: https://bt6.gg Bossy Discord: Search "Bossy Discord" or ask Pliny/John V on X Where to find Latent Space X: https://x.com/latentspacepod Substack: https://www.latent.space/ Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction: Meet Pliny the Liberator and John V 00:01:50 The Philosophy of AI Liberation and Jailbreaking 00:03:08 Universal Jailbreaks: Skeleton Keys to AI Models 00:04:24 The Cat-and-Mouse Game: Attackers vs Defenders 00:05:42 Security Theater vs Real Safety: The Fundamental Disconnect 00:08:51 Inside the Libertas Repo: Prompt Engineering as Art 00:16:22 The Anthropic Challenge Drama: UI Bugs and Open Source Data 00:23:30 From Jailbreaks to Weaponization: AI-Orchestrated Attacks 00:26:55 The BT6 Hacker Collective and BASI Community 00:34:46 AI Red Teaming: Full Stack Security Beyond the Model 00:38:06 Safety vs Security: Meat Space Solutions and Final Thoughts

Topics covered in this episode: Deprecations via warnings docs PyAtlas: interactive map of the top 10,000 Python packages on PyPI. Buckaroo Extras Joke Watch on YouTube About the show Connect with the hosts Michael: @mkennedy@fosstodon.org / @mkennedy.codes (bsky) Brian: @brianokken@fosstodon.org / @brianokken.bsky.social Show: @pythonbytes@fosstodon.org / @pythonbytes.fm (bsky) Join us on YouTube at pythonbytes.fm/live to be part of the audience. Usually Monday at 10am PT. Older video versions available there too. Finally, if you want an artisanal, hand-crafted digest of every week of the show notes in email form? Add your name and email to our friends of the show list, we'll never share it. Brian #1: Deprecations via warnings Deprecations via warnings don't work for Python libraries Seth Larson How to encourage developers to fix Python warnings for deprecated features Ines Panker Michael #2: docs A collaborative note taking, wiki and documentation platform that scales. Built with Django and React. Made for self hosting Docs is the result of a joint effort led by the French

Today we are talking about AI Marketing,Marketing Trends, and The caber toss with guest Hayden Baillio. We'll also cover Drupal core 11.3 as our module of the week. For show notes visit: https://www.talkingDrupal.com/532 Topics AI in Marketing: Hayden's Insights The Role of AI in Content Creation Challenges and Ethical Considerations of AI AI Training Data and Bias AI in Security Testing AI Replacing Jobs The Future of Marketing with AI Highland Games and Personal Hobbies Resources Drupal core 11.3 release highlights Carsinisation Guests Hayden Baillio - hounder.co hgbaillio Hosts Nic Laflin - nLighteneddevelopment.com nicxvan John Picozzi - epam.com johnpicozzi Fei Lauren - feilauren MOTW Correspondent Martin Anderson-Clutz - mandclu.com mandclu Brief description: Have you been wanting a version of Drupal core that moves away from the hooks system, has PHP 8.5 support, or has better support for asynchronous queries? The newly released Drupal core 11.3 has all these and more. Module name/project name: Drupal core 11.3 Brief history Created in the last few days (hopefully) by the time this episode is released Changes Performance improvements New MYSQLi database driver. In combination with the PHP Fibers support added in Drupal 10.2, this should allow Drupal sites to run much faster. Not all hosting environments will have PHP configured to work with the new driver, so for now the new driver is in an experimental core module you will need to install to try the new driver Drupal can now lazy load multiple entities at a time using Fibers PHP 8.5 support should also improve performance, as will a number of caching improvements Some early testing in the community indicates some significant improvements for pages loaded from cold cache, anywhere from 30 to 40% fewer queries One of the significant changes in Drupal core 11.2 was the addition of HTMX as the intended successor to Drupal's older AJAX system. Drupal core 11.3 includes some significant steps on the path to replacing all the places that AJAX system in core There's a new HTMX factory object with methods to abstract the specifics of the attributes and headers needed to implement HTMX HTMX is now used for the Form Builder and ConfigSingleExportForm BigPipe no longer uses the older AJAX API, which itself uses jQuery New Workspace Provider concept, will be interesting to see what new possibilities this creates New administer node published status permission, previously required the much broader "administer nodes" permission Drupal core 11.3 also includes some capabilities that previously required contrib modules Links created within CKEditor5 now dynamically link to the entity and when rendered will automatically point to the most recent alias. Previously Drupal sites needed the Linkit module, which has been part of Drupal CMS since its release at the start of the year Drupal CMS is also heavily based on Drupal's recipe system, which includes the ability to automatically import content included within a recipe. Until now you still needed the default_content module to export content as YAML for inclusion in a recipe. With Drupal 11.3 you can export all entities of a particular type, optionally filtered by bundle, and optionally including all dependencies Many of Drupal's remaining hooks, particularly those for themes, now have OOP class replacements, so we're now very close to being able to deprecate .module and .theme files Listeners may remember that the Navigation module was added as an experimental module in Drupal core 10.3. In 11.3, the module is now officially stable, so the rethought admin menu that originally debuted as part of the Gin admin theme is now fully realized in Drupal core SDCs can now be marked to be excluded from the UI, for example if they are meant to only be nested within other components Drupal core 11.3 also introduces some new deprecations: Migrate Drupal and Migrate Drupal UI officially deprecated now that Drupal 7 is EOL Also field_layout, which was ultimately superseded by Layout Builder Promoted and Sticky fields are now hidden by default (an issue created more than 20 years ago! A five digit issue ID) - the user who created it had a drop.org username lol Another issue that sets the "Promoted" default value to FALSE for new content types was also resolved, but only 15 years old. It had a six-digit issue ID - barely! Theme engines have been deprecated! This may be the last feature release of Drupal core before version 12, which could drop as early as June 2026 We'll include a link to the release highlights, but by the time you hear this there should also be an official announcement from Gabor and the DA with additional details

Welcome back to the Ultimate Guide to Partnering® Podcast. AI agents are your next customers. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ Jen Odess, Group Vice President of Partner Excellence at ServiceNow, joins Vince Menzione to discuss the company’s incredible transformation from an IT ticketing solution to a leading AI-native platform for business transformation. Jen dives deep into how ServiceNow has strategically invested in and infused AI into its unified platform over the last decade, enabling over a billion workflows daily. She also outlines the critical role of the partner ecosystem, which executes 87% of all implementations, and reveals the company’s strategic initiatives, including its commitment to the hyperscaler marketplaces, the goal to hit half a billion dollars in annual contract value for its Now Assist AI product, and the push for partners to adopt an ‘AI-native’ methodology to capitalize on the fact that customers still want over 70% of AI buying to be done through partners. Key Takeaways ServiceNow is an ‘AI-native’ company, having invested in and built AI directly into its unified platform for over a decade. The company’s core value today is in its unified AI platform, single data model, and leadership in workflows that connect the entire enterprise. ServiceNow will hit $500 million in annual contract value for its Now Assist AI products by the end of 2025, making it the fastest-growing product in company history. An astonishing 87% of all ServiceNow implementations are done by its global partner ecosystem, highlighting their crucial role. The company is leveraging the half-trillion-dollar opportunity of durable cloud budgets by driving marketplace transactions and helping customers burn down cloud commits using ServiceNow solutions. To win in the AI era, partners must adopt AI internally, co-innovate on the platform, and strategically differentiate themselves to rank higher in the forthcoming agentic matching system. Key Tags: ServiceNow, AI-native platform, Now Assist, Jen Odess, partner excellence, workflow leader, AI platform for business transformation, hyperscalers, Microsoft Azure, Google Cloud, AWS, marketplace transactions, cloud commits, AIDA model, agentic matching, F-Pattern, Z-Pattern, group vice president, MSP, GSI, co-innovation, autonomous implementation, technical constraints, visual hierarchy, UX, UI, responsive design. Ultimate Partner is the independent community for technology leaders navigating the tectonic shifts in cloud, AI, marketplaces, and co-selling. Through live events, UPX membership, advisory, and the Ultimate Guide to Partnering® podcast, we help organizations align with hyperscalers, accelerate growth, and achieve their greatest results through successful partnering. Transcript: Jen Odess Audio Podcast [00:00:00] Jen Odess: The AI platform for business transformation, and I love to say to people, it sounds like a handful of cliche words that just got stacked together. The AI platform for business transformation. Yeah. We all know these words, so many companies use ’em, but it is such deliberate language and I love to explain why. [00:00:20] Vince Menzione: Welcome to, or welcome back to The Ultimate Guide to Partnering. I’m Vince Menzi on your host, and my mission is to help leaders like you achieve your greatest results through successful partnering. Today we have a special leader, Jen Odes is the GVP for Partner Excellence at ServiceNow. And joins me here in the studio in Boca Raton. [00:00:40] Vince Menzione: Jen, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Vince. It’s so great to be here. I am so thrilled to welcome you. To Boca Raton, Florida. Our podcast home look at this amazing background we have Here is this, and this is where we host our ultimate partner Winter retreat. Actually, in February, we’re gonna give that a plug. [00:00:58] Vince Menzione: Okay. I’d love to have you come back. I’d love to have an invite. And you flew in this morning from Washington DC [00:01:04] Jen Odess: I did. It was 20 degrees when I left my house this morning and this backdrop. Is definitely giving me, island South Florida like vibes. It’s fabulous. [00:01:13] Vince Menzione: And we’re gonna talk about ServiceNow. [00:01:14] Vince Menzione: And you’re also opening an office down here? We [00:01:17] Jen Odess: are [00:01:17] Vince Menzione: in West Palm Beach. Not too far from where we are. Yes. Later 2026. Yeah. I love that. And then so we’ll work on the recruiting year, but let’s dive in. Okay. So thrilled to have ServiceNow and to have you in the room. This has been an incredible time for your organization. [00:01:31] Vince Menzione: I have been watching, obviously I work with Microsoft. We’ve had Google. In the studio, Amazon onboard as well. And other than those three organizations, I can’t think of any other legacy organization that has embraced AI more succinctly than ServiceNow. And I thought we’d start there, but I really wanna spend some time getting to know you and getting to know your role, your mission, and your journey to this incredible. [00:01:57] Vince Menzione: Leadership role as a global vice president. We’ll talk about Or [00:02:01] Jen Odess: group. Group Vice president. I know it doesn’t roll off the tongue. I get it. A group vice president doesn’t roll. [00:02:05] Vince Menzione: G-V-P-G-V-P doesn’t roll off the time. And in some organizations it is global. It is in other organizations, it’s group. So let’s, you’re not [00:02:12] Jen Odess: the first to say global vice president. [00:02:14] Jen Odess: Okay. I’ll take either way. It’s fine. [00:02:15] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Yeah. And might be a promotion. Let’s talk. Let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about you and your career journey and your mission. [00:02:22] Jen Odess: Yeah, so I’ve been at ServiceNow for five years. In fact, January will be like the five year anniversary and then it will be the beginning of my sixth year. [00:02:31] Jen Odess: Amazing. And I actually got hired originally to build out the initial partner enablement function. So it didn’t really exist five years ago. There was certainly enablement that happened to Sure. All individuals that were. Using, consuming, buying ServiceNow, working with ServiceNow. But the partner enablement function from pre to post-sale, that whole life cycle didn’t exist yet. [00:02:54] Jen Odess: So that was my initial job. I got hired to run partner enablement and it before. And how big [00:02:59] Vince Menzione: was your partner organization at that point? It must have been pretty small. [00:03:01] Jen Odess: It was actually not as small as you would think. Gosh, that’s a great question. You’re challenging my memory from five years ago. [00:03:08] Jen Odess: I know that we’re over 2,500 partners today and we add hundreds every year, so it had to have been in the low one thousands. Wow. Is where we were five years ago. But the maturity of the ecosystem is grossly larger today than it was then. I can imagine. So back then there was less than 30,000 individuals that were skilled on ServiceNow to sell or solution or deliver. [00:03:34] Jen Odess: Today there’s almost a hundred thousand. Wow. So yeah that’s like the maturity in the capability within the ecosystem. But before I start on my ServiceNow and my group vice president. Which is a great role, by the way. Group Vice President. Yeah. Partner Excellence group. I’m very proud of it. [00:03:49] Jen Odess: But but let me tell you what brought me here, please. So I actually came from a partner, but not in the ServiceNow ecosystem. Okay. I won’t name the partner, but let’s just say it’s a competitor, a competitive ecosystem. And I worked for a services shop that today I would refer to as multinational. [00:04:11] Jen Odess: Kind of a boutique darling, but with over 1,500 consultants, so Okay. A behemoth as well? Yeah. Privately held. And we were a force to be reckoned with, and it was really fun. I held so many roles. I was a customer success manager. I led the data science practice at one point. I ran global alliances and partnerships. [00:04:35] Jen Odess: At one point I was the chief of staff to the CEO at the time that company was acquired. Big global si. And and then at one point I even spun off for the big global SI and helped run a culture initiative to transform co corporate culture. Wow. Very inside the whole organization. Wow. That is very, yeah. [00:04:54] Jen Odess: Really interesting set of roles. And the whole reason I came to ServiceNow is by the time I was concluding that journey in that ecosystem on the services side, I felt like. I didn’t fully understand what it meant to be on the software product side. And I often felt like I approached friction or moments of frustration and heartache with resentment for the software company. [00:05:20] Jen Odess: Sure. Or maybe just a lack of empathy for what they must be going through as well. It always felt like I was on the kind of [00:05:26] Vince Menzione: negative you were on the other side of the table. Totally. [00:05:27] Jen Odess: Yeah. And, or maybe like the redheaded stepchild kind of a concept as a partner. And so I sought out to. Learn more, which is probably a big piece of my journey is just constant curiosity. [00:05:38] Jen Odess: Nice. And I thought I think the thing I’m missing is seeing what it means firsthand to be on the software product side. And that was what led me to a career at ServiceNow. Five years strong. Yeah. So [00:05:50] Vince Menzione: talk about partner experience for those who don’t know what that means. [00:05:53] Jen Odess: Yeah. Today my role is partner excellence, but it used to be partner experience. [00:05:58] Jen Odess: Okay. And so the don’t. Yeah, that’s normal to say both things. And they actually mean two very different things. [00:06:04] Vince Menzione: Yeah, I would say so. [00:06:05] Jen Odess: And we deliberately changed the title about a year ago. So today, partner Excellence is about really ensuring that we build a vibrant AI led ecosystem. And that’s from the whole life cycle of the partner, from the day they choose to be a partner and onboard, and hopefully to the day they’re just. [00:06:23] Jen Odess: Thriving and growing like crazy, and then across the whole life cycle of the customer pre to post sale. So it’s, we are almost like the underpinning and the infras infrastructure. Someone once said it’s like we’re the insurance policy of all global partnerships and channels. That’s how we operate across global partnerships and channels and service Now. [00:06:42] Vince Menzione: And you have a very intimate relationship with those partners. We’re gonna dive in on that as well. Yes. But let’s talk about this time like no other. I talk about tectonic shifts at all of our events. People that listen to our podcasts know we talk about the acceleration of transformation, and it’s happening so fast. [00:06:58] Vince Menzione: It was happening fast even during COVID. But then. I’ll call this date or time period, the November 20, 22 time period when Chat GPT launched. Oh yeah. And that really changed the world in many respects, right? Yeah. Microsoft had already leaned in with chat, GPT, Google, we talked to Google about this. [00:07:17] Vince Menzione: Even having them in the room was like, they were caught flatfooted in a way, and they had a lot of the technology and they didn’t lean in. But it feels like ServiceNow was one of the first, certainly on the ISV side of the house and refer to the term ISV. Loosely, because hyperscalers are ISVs as well. [00:07:34] Vince Menzione: They were early to lean in and have leaned it in such a way from a business application perspective that I believe we haven’t seen embracing and infusing AI into your platform. I was hoping we could dive in a little bit on ServiceNow from a. Kinda legacy, what the organization was and is today. [00:07:56] Vince Menzione: And then also this infusion of AI into the platform. If you don’t mind, [00:07:59] Jen Odess: I love this topic. Okay. And I feel like it’s such a privilege to talk about ServiceNow on this topic because we really are a leader in the category. I’ll almost rewind back to over 20 years ago when the company was founded. [00:08:11] Jen Odess: Today, fast forward, we are so much more than an IT ticketing company. We are, [00:08:16] Vince Menzione: but that was the legacy. That’s how I knew service now 20 years ago. [00:08:19] Jen Odess: And what a beautiful legacy. Yeah. But we have expanded immensely beyond that. And that’s the beautiful story to tell customers. That’s so fun. [00:08:28] Jen Odess: But what what I love is that. So 20 years ago, that was where we started. And today, do you know that over a billion workflows are put to work every single day for our customers? A billion [00:08:38] Vince Menzione: workflows, over a billion workflows. That’s crazy. [00:08:40] Jen Odess: And 87% of all implementations for ServiceNow were done by partnerships. [00:08:46] Jen Odess: And channels. That’s fantastic. So you think about those billion plus workflows daily, all because of our partner ecosystem. This is my small plug. I’m just very proud 80, proud 86%. [00:08:56] Vince Menzione: Did you hear that? Part’s 86%. [00:08:57] Jen Odess: Amazing. And so that’s like what we’re, that’s what we’re a leader in the category. We are a leader in workflows categorically. [00:09:05] Jen Odess: But then over a decade ago, we started investing in ai. We started building it right into our platform, and this becomes the next kind of notch on our belt, which is we are a unified platform. Nothing is bolted on, nothing is just apid in. Yeah, it is a unified platform. So all of that AI that for the past decade we’ve been building in into our platform. [00:09:28] Jen Odess: Just in our AI platform, which is now what we are calling it, the AI platform. [00:09:34] Vince Menzione: And I would say that unless you were a startup starting up from scratch today and building on an LLM, we were building in a way I don’t think any other organization’s gonna actually state that [00:09:45] Jen Odess: what’s actually why we call ourselves AI native. [00:09:47] Jen Odess: Yeah, beca for that exact reason. And that’s who we’re competing with a lot these days, is the truly AI native startups where they didn’t have, the 20 years. Previously that we had, but that’s what makes us so unique in the situation, is that unified AI platform, a single data model that can connect to anything. [00:10:07] Jen Odess: And then the workflow leader. And when you put all those things together, AI plus data, plus workflows and that’s where the magic happens. Yeah. Across the enterprise. It’s pretty cool. [00:10:17] Vince Menzione: That is very cool. And you start thinking about, and we start talking about agent as a, as an example. Let’s talk about this for a second. [00:10:23] Vince Menzione: You, when what is this bolt-on, we could use the terms co-pilot, we could use Ag Agent ai, but they are generally bolted onto an existing application today. So take us through the 10 years and how it has become a portion or a significant portion. Of ServiceNow. [00:10:41] Jen Odess: When say the question a little bit more. [00:10:43] Jen Odess: Like when you say it’s, yeah, when which examples have bolted on? [00:10:47] Vince Menzione: So exa, we, what we see today is the hyperscalers coming out with their own solution sets, right? They’re taking and they’re offering it up to their ecosystem to infuse it into their product and portfolio. To me, those that look like bolted on in many respects, unless it’s an AI need as a native organization, a startup organization. [00:11:07] Vince Menzione: They’re mostly taking and re-engineering or bolting onto their existing solutions. [00:11:12] Jen Odess: I follow. Yeah. Thank you for giving me a little more context. So I call this our any problem. It’s like one of the best problems to have we can connect into. Anything, any cloud, any ai, any platform, any system, any data, any workflow, and that’s where any hyperscaler, and that’s the part that makes it so incredible. [00:11:32] Jen Odess: So your word is bolt on, and I use the word any the, any problem. Yeah. We’ve got this beautiful kind of stack visual that just, it’s like it just one on top of the other. Any. Any, and no one else can really say that. I gotta see [00:11:45] Vince Menzione: that visual. Yeah. Yeah. So talk about this a little bit more. So you’re uniquely positioned. [00:11:52] Vince Menzione: Let’s talk about how you position, you talked about being AI native. What does that imply and what does that mean in terms of the evolution of the platform? From ticketing to workflows to the business applications? What are the type of applications Yeah. Markets, industries that you’re starting to see. [00:12:08] Jen Odess: So I’ll actually answer this with, taking on a small, maybe marketing or positioning journey. So there was a time when our tagline would be The World Works with ServiceNow. There was a time when it was, we put AI to work for people and today and it, I think it was around Knowledge 2025, this came out. [00:12:28] Jen Odess: It was the AI platform for business transformation. And I love to say to people, it sounds like a handful of. Cliche words that just got stacked together. The AI platform for business transformation. Yeah. We all know these words, so many companies use ’em, but it is such deliberate language and I love to explain why. [00:12:46] Jen Odess: So the first is the AI platform is calling out that we are an AI native platform. We are a unified platform. It’s a chance to say all that goodness I already shared with you. Yeah. And the business transformation is actually telling the story of no longer being a solution. Point or no longer being an individual product that does X. [00:13:06] Jen Odess: It’s about saying. The ServiceNow platform can go north to south and east to west across your entire enterprise. Okay. Up and down the entire tech stack. Any. And then east to west, it can cut across the enterprise, the C-suite, the buying centers, all into one unified AI platform. With one data model. [00:13:26] Jen Odess: I love it. And so I love that AI platform for business transformation actually has so much purpose. [00:13:32] Vince Menzione: It does. So you’re going across the stack, so you’re going all the way from the bottom layer, all the way up to the top from the ue. Ui. And then you’re going across the organization, right? You’re going across the C-suite, you’re going across all the business functions of an organization. [00:13:46] Vince Menzione: Correct. And so the workflows are going across each of those business functions? [00:13:49] Jen Odess: Correct. And then our AI control tower is sitting at the very top, governing over all of it. [00:13:53] Vince Menzione: I love the control tower. [00:13:54] Jen Odess: I know the governance, security risk protocol, managing all the agents interoperability. Yeah. [00:14:01] Vince Menzione: And then data at the very bottom right. [00:14:03] Vince Menzione: Controlling all those elements and the governance of the data and the right, the cleanliness of the data and so on. Yeah. That’s incredible. I we could probably talk about business applications. I know one, in fact, I’ve had a person sit in this, your chair from we’ll call it a large GSIA very significant GSI one of the top five. [00:14:21] Vince Menzione: And they took ServiceNow and they applied it to their business partnering function. And they used, and we, you probably don’t know about this one, but I know that that’s a, an example of taking it and applying it all across all the workflows, across all the geographies of the organization and taking a lot of the process that was all done manually. [00:14:40] Vince Menzione: That was stove pipe business processes that were all stove piped and removing the stove pipe and making for a fluid organizational flow. [00:14:47] Jen Odess: And I’ll bet you the end user didn’t even realize ServiceNow was the backend. That’s some of the greatest examples actually. [00:14:53] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Yeah. So Jen, we work with all the hyperscalers. [00:14:56] Vince Menzione: We have a very strong relationship with Microsoft. Goes back many years, my back to my days at Microsoft and we’ve had Google in the room. We have AWS now as well. We bring them all together because we believe that partners work with, need to work with all three. And I know that you have had an interesting transformation at ServiceNow around the hyperscalers. [00:15:16] Vince Menzione: I was hoping you could dive in a little deeper with us. [00:15:19] Jen Odess: Yeah. We are so proud of our relationships with the hyperscalers, so the same three, so it’s Microsoft Azure, Google Cloud, and AWS. And really it’s it’s a strategic 360 partnership and our goal is really to drive marketplace transactions. [00:15:34] Jen Odess: So ServiceNow selling in all of their marketplaces and then. Burn down of our customers cloud commits. I love it. It’s really a beautiful story for our customers and for the hyperscalers and for ServiceNow. And so we’ve, it’s brand, it’s a brand new announcement from late in the year 2025. Love it. And we’re really excited about it. [00:15:51] Vince Menzione: Yeah. And then we, and we get all of the marketplace leaders in the room. So we’ve worked with all of those people. And one of the key points about this is there is over a half a trillion dollars in durable cloud budgets with customers that [00:16:08] Vince Menzione: Already committed to, I know, so that tam available, a half a trillion dollars is available to customers to burn down and utilize your solutions and professional services with partners as well in terms of driving a complete solution. [00:16:21] Jen Odess: That’s exactly the motion we’re pushing is to go and leverage those cloud commits to get on ServiceNow and in some cases, maybe even take out other products to go with ServiceNow and actually end up funding the transition to ServiceNow. Yeah. Yeah. [00:16:37] Vince Menzione: So you serve thousands of customers today, thousands of customers. [00:16:42] Vince Menzione: I can’t even. Fathom the exact number, but you have this partner ecosystem that you described, and their reach is even more incredible, like hundreds of thousands. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about how you think about that, and then how do you drive the partner ecosystem in the right way to drive this partner excellence that you described. [00:17:02] Jen Odess: Yeah, that’s a great question. So yeah, thousands of ServiceNow customers and we’re barely scratching the surface in comparison to our partners customers. So we have over 2,500 partners Wow. In our ecosystem. And today they cut across what I would call five routes to market. That partners can go to market with ServiceNow. [00:17:21] Jen Odess: Okay. The first is consulting and implementation. This will be your classic kind of consulting shop or GSI approach. The second is resell, just like it sounds. Yep. [00:17:30] Vince Menzione: Transactional. [00:17:31] Jen Odess: Yep. The third is managed service provider. [00:17:33] Vince Menzione: Okay. [00:17:34] Jen Odess: The fourth is what we call build, which is. The ISV, strategic Tech partner realm, and then the fifth is hyperscaler. [00:17:43] Jen Odess: Those are the five routes to market. So partners can choose to be in one or all or two. It doesn’t matter. It’s whichever one fits the kind of business they want to go drive. Nice. Where they’re. Expertise lies. And then we’ve got partners that show up globally, partners that show up multinational and partners that show up regionally and then partners that show up locally, in country and that’s it. [00:18:06] Jen Odess: And we really want a diverse set of partners capable of delivering where any of our customers are. So it’s important that we have that dynamic ecosystem where we really push them. We’re actually trying hard to balance this. Yeah, you would’ve heard it from many of your other partners. This direct versus indirect. [00:18:24] Jen Odess: Yes. Motion. For anyone listening that doesn’t know the difference, right? Direct is ServiceNow is selling direct to a customer, there might be a partner involved influencing that will implement. Yeah, likely but ServiceNow is really driving the sale versus indirect where the whole thing routes through the partner. [00:18:39] Jen Odess: Right? Which is your classic reseller or managed service provider and often a an ISV. And you know that balance is never gonna be perfect ’cause we’re not gonna commit to go all direct or all indirect. We’re gonna continue to sit in this space where we’re trying to find a healthy balance. [00:18:56] Jen Odess: So I find a lot of our time trying to figure out how do you set all those parties up for success? Yeah. The parties are the ServiceNow field sellers? And then you’ve also got the partnerships and channels, so the ecosystem, and then you’ve got the people in global partnerships and channels. So my broader organization, and we’re all trying to figure out how to work harmoniously together and it’s a lot of, it is my job to get us there. [00:19:19] Jen Odess: And so we use lots of things like incentives and benefits and we will put in place gated entry, really strategic gated entry. What does [00:19:29] Vince Menzione: gated entry mean? [00:19:30] Jen Odess: Yeah. What I mean is if you want to have a chance at being matched with a customer Yeah. For a very specific deal. Or it’s really one of three to get matched. [00:19:41] Jen Odess: ‘Cause you can never match one-to-one. It has to be three or more. Okay. We have good compliance rules in place. Yeah. But in order to even. Like surface to the top of the list to be matched. There’s a gated entry, which is, you’ve gotta have validated practices. Okay. Which is how, it’s these various ways, as you described, you quantify and qualify the partner’s capabilities. [00:20:00] Vince Menzione: Yeah. So you have to meet these qualifications. Yes. And you could be one of three to enter and be. Potentially matched, considered significant or Yes. Match for this deal? [00:20:08] Jen Odess: Yes, that’s exactly right. So we use, various things like that. And then we try to carve what I would call dance card space reseller in commercial, try to sit here and like carve by geo, by region, by country dance card space as well to help the partners really know exactly where they can unleash versus, hey, this is the process and the rules of engagement. To go and sell alongside the direct org sales organization [00:20:33] Vince Menzione: and you’re gonna have multiple partners in the same opportunities. [00:20:37] Vince Menzione: Absolutely not. Not necessarily competing with each other. There’s three competing each with each other, but also you’re gonna have other partners that provide different capabilities as well. You might have that have some that are just transac. Those are gonna be those channel or reseller partners. [00:20:52] Vince Menzione: You might have an MSP that’s actually delivering, or at least providing some type of managed service on top of the stack. Like supporting the customer. Yeah. And then you might have an SI GSI an integration partner that’s also doing the con the consulting work around getting the solution to meet with the customer’s requirements. [00:21:12] Vince Menzione: Would you say [00:21:13] Jen Odess: so? That’s exactly right. Yeah. And actually in. AI era, we’re seeing more of it than ever. And even on the smaller deals, maybe not the GSIs on the smaller deals, but we’re seeing multiple partners come in to serve up their specific expertise, which is actually a best practice. That’s [00:21:33] Vince Menzione: terrific. [00:21:33] Jen Odess: We don’t want. If you’ve got an area that’s a blind spot and you’re a partner, but that’s something your customer is buying from you, there’s no harm in saying let’s bring in an expert in that category to deliver that piece of the business. That’s right. And we’ll maybe shadow and watch alongside. [00:21:46] Jen Odess: So we’re seeing more and more of it. And I actually think like the world of. Partnerships and ecosystems. If I go back to like my previous ecosystem as well, it’s become so much more communal than ever before. Yes. This idea that we can share and be more open and maybe even commiserate over the things, gosh, I can’t believe we have the same frustrations or we have the same. [00:22:09] Jen Odess: Wow, that’s amazing. And you’re in this country. And I’m in this country. And so we’re seeing more and more coming together on deals which I really respect a lot. ’cause So one of the new facts we’ve just learned actually, Vince, is that. Of all the ai buying that customers are doing out there, they actually still want over 70% of it to be done by partners. [00:22:32] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:22:33] Jen Odess: So even though it looks like it could be maybe set up easy configured, easy plug and play it. It to get, it’s not real ROI. You still need a partner with expertise in that industry or that domain, or in that location or in that language to come and bring the value to life. And we will certainly accelerate, help accelerate time to value with things that ServiceNow will do for our partners. [00:22:56] Jen Odess: But if over 70% is gonna go to partners and AI is so new, wouldn’t you want more than one partner Sometimes on a absolutely on a deal, at least while we’re all learning. I think we can keep ebbing and flowing [00:23:07] Vince Menzione: on this. We you, I dunno if Jay McBain, ’cause we’ve had him in the room here and he is a, he’s an analyst that does a lot of work around this topic. [00:23:14] Vince Menzione: And we talk about the seven seats at the table because there are, again, you need more you, first of all, you need to have your trusted, you need to have the organizations that you work with. And you also, in the world of ai, with all of the tectonic shifts, all the constant changing that’s going on right now, I need to make sure that I have the right. [00:23:31] Vince Menzione: People by my side that I can trust, they can help me deliver what I need to deliver. ’cause it might have changed from six months ago. And the technology is changing. Everything is changing so rapidly right now. So again, having all those right people I want to pick up on something ’cause we talked a little bit about MSPs and they’ve become a favorite topic of ours. [00:23:52] Vince Menzione: I have become acutely aware of the Ms P community recently. I kinda looked at them as well. There’s little small partners, but you’ve suggested this as well. They have regional expert, they have expertise in a specific area. And can be trusted, and maybe you’re integrating multiple solution sets for a customer. [00:24:11] Vince Menzione: But we’ve seen this MSP community become very vibrant lately, and I feel like they woke up to technology and to AI in such a big way. Can you comment on that? [00:24:20] Jen Odess: So we feel and see the same thing I’ve always valued what managed service providers bring to the table. It’s like that. [00:24:26] Jen Odess: Classic are you a transformation shop or are you a ta? The tail end or the run business shop? And so many partners are like we’re both, and I wanna be like, but are you? But now I feel like we finally are seeing the run business is so fruitful. So AI is innovating. All the time. [00:24:46] Jen Odess: We, we are innovating as a AI platform all the time. What used to be six month, every six months family releases of our software. Yeah. It became quarterly and now we’re practically seeing releases of new innovation every six to eight weeks. So why wouldn’t you want a managed service provider? Paying close attention to your whole instance on ServiceNow and taking into account all the latest innovation and building it into your existing instance, and then looking out for what new things you should be bringing in. [00:25:20] Jen Odess: So that’s the beauty of the, it’s almost partnerships, observing, and then suggesting how to keep. Doing better and more and better versus always jumping straight back to complete redesign and transformation. Yeah, and that’s one of the things I like about the MSPs in this space. [00:25:36] Vince Menzione: So let’s broaden out from this part of the conversation ’cause you’re giving specific guidance to the MSPs, but let’s think about this whole partner community. [00:25:43] Vince Menzione: And you’ve seen this transformation coming over to ServiceNow and even within ServiceNow these last five years. How do these organizations need to think differently? And how do they need to structure their services in this newent world? [00:25:58] Jen Odess: Great question. There’s really four things that I think they have to be thoughtful of. [00:26:02] Jen Odess: The first is maybe the most obvious they have to adopt AI as their own ways of doing work methodology. Delivery, whatever it is, because only through the, it’s not about taking out people in jobs, it’s about doing the job faster, right? It’s about getting the customer to value faster so that adoption of AI will make or break some partners. [00:26:24] Jen Odess: And our goal is that every partner comes on the other side of this AI journey, thriving and surviving. So we’re really pushing. This agenda. And maybe later I can talk to you a little bit more about this autonomous implementation concept. Please. ’cause I that will [00:26:37] Vince Menzione: resonate. So you’re saying they need to, we used to use the term eat their own dog food. [00:26:41] Vince Menzione: Now it’s drink your own champagne. Yeah. But they need to adopt it as well internally. [00:26:46] Jen Odess: Yeah. And I think whether they’re using, I hope they’re using ServiceNow as like a client, zero. To do some of that adoption. But there’s lots of other tools that are great AI tools that will make your job and your day-to-day life and the execution of that job easier. [00:26:59] Jen Odess: So we want them adopting all of that. The second is, we really need to see partners. Innovating on the ServiceNow platform. Yeah. And whether that’s building agents AI agents that go into the ServiceNow store, whether it’s building a really fantastic solution that we wanna joint jointly go to market with, or maybe it’s one of those embedded solutions you were commenting where the end user doesn’t even know that the backend, like a tax and audit solution that is actually just. [00:27:29] Jen Odess: The backend is all ServiceNow. Yeah. But that partner is going to market and selling it to all their customers. Exactly. So I think this co-innovation is gonna be a place that we will really win in market. The third is if a partner wants to stand out right now, they have to differentiate on paper too. [00:27:47] Jen Odess: It’s gotta like what does that mean? So if there’s 2,500 partners. And it’s not like we don’t walk around and just say, you should talk to this partner. Yeah. Or here’s my secret list. You should, we don’t do that. That’s not good business and it’s not compliant. So we have algorithms that take all the quantitative and qualitative data on our partners and they know all the data points ’cause it’s part of the partner program Nice. [00:28:10] Jen Odess: That they adhere to and then ranks them on status. And all those data points are what I’m referring to as on paper. You’ve gotta be differentiated. So whether or not you wanna be great at one thing or great across the whole thing, think about how all of those quantitative and qualitative data points are making you stand out, because that’s where those matches that I was referring to. [00:28:35] Jen Odess: Yes. That’s where that’s gonna come to life. And it’s skills, it’s capabilities. It’s deployments. So Proofpoint and deployments, customer success stories, csat, all the things. So [00:28:47] Vince Menzione: those are all the qualifi qualifiers for and more, but those are the types [00:28:49] Jen Odess: of qualifications. Yeah. [00:28:51] Vince Menzione: And then do your, does your sales organization do a match against that based on a customer’s requirements that they’re working with and who they work with and co-sell with? [00:29:00] Jen Odess: And I feel like you just lobbed me the greatest question. I didn’t even know you were gonna ask it, but I’m so glad you did. So today. Today there is something called a partner finder, which is which is nice, but it’s a little bit old school in a world of ai. Yeah. So you go to servicenow.com, you click partner from the top navigation, and then it says find a partner and you can literally type in the products you’re buying the country, you’re, that you’re headquartered out of. [00:29:26] Jen Odess: Whatever thing you’re looking for. And it will start to filter based on all those data points, the right partners, and you can actually click right there to be connected to a partner. So lead generation. Okay, interesting. But where we’re going is a agentic matching right in our CRM for the field. Oh. So those data points are gonna matter even more, and that’s where the gated. [00:29:48] Jen Odess: I say gated entry, which is probably too extreme, right? It’s really gated. If you wanna surface toward the top, there’s gated parameters to try to surface to the top, but those data points will feed the algorithm and it will genetically match right in our CRM for the field. Who are the best suited partners? [00:30:09] Jen Odess: Would you like to talk to them? [00:30:10] Vince Menzione: Okay. And so is it. Partner facing? Is it sales team facing [00:30:14] Jen Odess: Right now? It’s sales. It’ll, when it goes live, it will be sales team facing. Okay. But we have greater ambition for what partners can do with it. Yeah. Not just in the indirect motion, but also what partners may be able to do with it to interface with our field. [00:30:30] Jen Odess: The. [00:30:31] Vince Menzione: The, yeah the collaboration [00:30:33] Jen Odess: opportunity. Which is always a friction point that we’re working on [00:30:36] Vince Menzione: always because it’s very manual. It’s people intensive. Yeah. Partner development managers sitting on both sides of the equation and the interface between the sales organization and a partner organization is not always the. The easiest. So right. Automated, quite a bit of that. [00:30:49] Jen Odess: My boss is obsessed with the easy button, which I know is a phrase many of us in the US know from I think it’s an Office Depot, all these ways in which we can have easy button moments for the partner ecosystem is what we’re trying to focus on. [00:31:01] Jen Odess: I love the easy button. [00:31:02] Vince Menzione: Yeah. And I love your boss too. Yeah, he’s fabulous. Fabulous. So Michael and I go back like many years ago. You must have, [00:31:08] Jen Odess: yeah. You must have had paths crossing on numerous occasions. [00:31:12] Vince Menzione: Yeah we we worked together micro I’m going to hijack the session for a second here. [00:31:16] Vince Menzione: But when I first came to Microsoft, he was leading a, the se, a segment of the business, and he invited me to come to his event and interviewed me on stage at his event. [00:31:26] Jen Odess: No way. [00:31:26] Vince Menzione: And we got to know each other and yeah. So he was terrific. He was what a great find for, oh, he’s for service now. [00:31:32] Vince Menzione: He’s really [00:31:32] Jen Odess: has been a fantastic addition [00:31:34] Vince Menzione: to the global partnerships and channels team. And Michael, we have to have you on the podcast. Yes. Or cut down here in the studio at some point too with Jen and I. That’d be great. So this is terrific. We are getting it’s an incredible time. [00:31:44] Vince Menzione: It’s going so fast this time, 2022 was, seems like it was five, it feels like it was almost 10 years ago now. It wasn’t that we just started talking about it and you were implementing AI 10 years ago, but it wasn’t getting the attention that it’s getting today. And it really wasn’t until that moment that it really started to kick off in a way that everybody, yeah. It became pervasive overnight I would say. But now we’re starting 2026, like we’re at. This precipice of time and it’s continuing. I don’t even know what 2030 is gonna look like, right? So I’m a partner. [00:32:16] Vince Menzione: What are the one, two, or three things that I need to do now to win over and work with ServiceNow? [00:32:23] Jen Odess: One, two or three things? I’ll tell you the first thing. So today ServiceNow will end up hitting 500 million in annual contract value in our Now Assist, which is our AI products by the end of 2025, which is the fastest growing product in all of ServiceNow history. [00:32:37] Jen Odess: That’s one product that’s so there’s lots of SKUs. Yeah, but it is. It’s our AI product. Yeah. And it is, but yeah, because of all the various ways. [00:32:45] Vince Menzione: So half a billion dollars, [00:32:46] Jen Odess: half a billion by the end of 2025. And I think, someone’s gonna have to keep me honest here, but if memory serves me right, the first skews didn’t even launch until 2024. [00:32:54] Jen Odess: So we’re talking about wow, in a year it’s fast. Over 1,700 customers are live with our now assist products. Again, in a matter of, let’s call it over, a little over a year, 1,700 partners. So I think the first thing a partner needs to do is they’ve gotta get on this AI bandwagon, and they’ve gotta be selling and positioning AI use cases to their customers, because that’s the only way they’re gonna get. [00:33:20] Jen Odess: Experience and an opportunity to see what it feels like to deliver. So we have to do that. And I think you could sell a big use case like that big, we talked north, south, east, west, you could do that whole thing. Brilliant. But you could also start small. Go pick a single use case. Like a really simple example of something you wanna, some work you wanna drive productivity on. [00:33:41] Jen Odess: Yeah. And make sure you’ve got multiple stakeholders that love it and then go drive proving that use case. That’s what we’re telling a lot of partners. That’s the first thing. The second is they have got to build skills on AI and they have to keep up with it. And so we’re trying to really think about our broader learning and development team at ServiceNow is just next level. [00:34:00] Jen Odess: And they’re really re-imagining how to have more real time bite size. Training and enablement that will help individuals keep up with that pace of innovation. So individuals have got to get skilled. Yes. On AI today, of that a hundred thousand or so individuals in the ecosystem right now, about 35% of those individuals hold one or more AI credential. [00:34:25] Jen Odess: Again, that’s in a little over a year, which is the fastest growing skill development we’ve ever had, but it should be a hundred percent. Yeah. All of our goals should be that every account is being sold ai. ’cause that’s where the customer’s gonna get to value a ServiceNow is if they have the AI capabilities. [00:34:40] Jen Odess: And [00:34:41] Vince Menzione: how are you providing enablement and training? Is it all online? It’s, we have [00:34:44] Jen Odess: all sorts of ways of doing it. So that we have ServiceNow University, which is just a really robust, learning platform. Elba is our professor in residence. Very cool. Which is very cool. And they’re all content. [00:34:57] Jen Odess: Is free to partners. The training is free to partners that is on demand. Beyond that, partners can still get, instructor led training, whether that’s in person or virtual. And then my team offers enablement. That’s a little bit more, it’s like not formal training, it’s more like hands-on labs and experiences. [00:35:17] Jen Odess: We bring in lots of groups that sit around me that help and we very cool hands on with partners face-to-face. And do you do an annual event where you bring all these partners together? No, because we do we have three major milestones a year for partners. So the first is at sales kickoff, which is coming up the third week in January. [00:35:33] Jen Odess: And alongside sales kickoff is partner kickoff. Okay. And so we do a whole day of enabling them. So that’s your [00:35:39] Vince Menzione: partner kickoff? [00:35:40] Jen Odess: That’s partner kickoff. But of the, of all the partners in the ecosystem, it’s not like they can all make it. So we still also record and then live stream some of the content there. [00:35:49] Jen Odess: Then at Knowledge, there’s a whole partner track at Knowledge and same concept. Yeah, it’s like it’s all about customers and we wanna, build as much pipeline and wow as many customers as possible, but we also need to help our partners come along the journey. Then the third and final moment is in September, always, and it’s called our Global Partner Ecosystem Summit. [00:36:08] Jen Odess: We should have you, I’d love to join this next year. I love that. And it’s really, that’s the one time if sales kickoff is all about the sales motion in the field and knowledge is all about the customers and getting customers value. Global Partner Ecosystem Summit is only about the partners, what they need, why they need it, and what we’re doing to make their lives easier. [00:36:28] Jen Odess: I love it. Yeah. I’ll be there September. I love it. Dates yet set yet? I have to, it’s getting locked. I’ll get it to you. [00:36:34] Vince Menzione: Okay. All right. I’ll, we’ll be there. Okay. So you’ve been incredible. I just love having you. We could spend hours, honestly, and I want to have you back here. I’d love to, I have you back for a more meaningful conversation with the hyperscalers. [00:36:45] Vince Menzione: Talk to some of the partners that join us at Ultimate Partner events. We’ll find a way to do that, but I have this one question. It’s a favorite question of mine, and I love to ask all my guests this. Okay. You’re hosting a dinner party. And you could host a dinner party anywhere in the world. We could talk about great locations and where your favorite places are, and you can invite any three guests from the present or the past to this amazing dinner party. [00:37:11] Vince Menzione: We had one guest who wanted to do them in the future, like three people that hadn’t reached a future date. Whom would you invite Jen and why? [00:37:21] Jen Odess: Oh, first of all, you’re hitting home for me because I love to host dinner parties. I actually used to have a catering company. This is like one of those weird facts that, we didn’t talk about my pre services and ecosystem days, but I also had a catering company, so I love cooking and hosting dinner parties. [00:37:38] Jen Odess: So this is a great question. I feel like it’s a loaded question and I have to say my spouse. I love my husband dearly, but I have. To invite Lee to my dinner party. Okay. He’s in [00:37:47] Vince Menzione: Lee’s guest number one. Lee’s [00:37:49] Jen Odess: guest, number one. And the reason why is, first of all, I love him dearly, but he’s super interesting and he has such thought provoking topics to, to discuss and ways of viewing the world. [00:38:00] Jen Odess: He’s actually in security tech, so it’s like a tangential space, but not the same. [00:38:05] Vince Menzione: Yeah. But an important space right now, especially. Yeah. And [00:38:07] Jen Odess: he, yeah. And he’s, he’s just a delight to be around. So he’d be number one. Number two would be Frank Lloyd Wright. [00:38:15] Vince Menzione: Frank. Lloyd Wright. [00:38:17] Jen Odess: Yeah. I am an architecture and design junkie. [00:38:21] Jen Odess: Maybe I don’t do any of it myself, though. I dabble with friends that do it, and I try to apply it to my home life when I can. And Frank Lloyd Wright sort of embodies some of my favorite. Components of any kind of environment that you are experiencing, whether it’s a home or it’s an office building or it’s an outdoor space. [00:38:39] Jen Odess: I love the idea of minimalism and simplicity. I love the idea of monochromatic colors. I love the idea of spaces that can be used for multipurpose. And then I love the idea of the outside being in and the inside being out. I love it. So I would like love to pick his brain on some of his, how he came up with some of his ideas. [00:38:59] Jen Odess: Fascinating for some of his greatest. Yeah. Designs. Okay. That’s number two. Number three, I think it would be Pharrell Williams. Really? Yeah, I, Pharrell Williams. Yeah. I love fashion music and all things creativity. He’s got that, Annie’s philanthropic. He’s just yeah. The whole package of a good person. [00:39:26] Jen Odess: That’s super interesting and I very cool. I would love to pick his brain on what it was like to be behind the scenes on some of the fashion lines he’s collaborated with on some of his music collabs he’s had, and then just some of the work he’s doing around philanthropy. I would. I could just spend all night probably listening to him. [00:39:43] Jen Odess: This would be a [00:39:44] Vince Menzione: really cool conversation night. [00:39:45] Jen Odess: Don’t you wanna come to my dinner? Was gonna say, I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to identify. No [00:39:49] Vince Menzione: I was, can I bring dessert? [00:39:50] Jen Odess: Yeah. I come [00:39:50] Vince Menzione: for dessert. I, but it can’t, [00:39:51] Jen Odess: it has to be like a chocolate dessert. It’s gotta have [00:39:54] Vince Menzione: I love chocolate dessert. [00:39:55] Vince Menzione: Okay, great. So it would not be a problem for me, Jen. This is terrific. You have been absolutely amazing. So great to have you come here. Yeah. Such a busy time of year to have you make the trip here to Boca. We will have you back in the studio. I promise that I’ll have you back on stage. Stage. [00:40:10] Jen Odess: This is beautiful. [00:40:10] Jen Odess: Look at it. Yeah. This is [00:40:11] Vince Menzione: beautiful. And we transformed this into, to a room, basically a conference room. And then we also have our ultimate partner events. I would love to come, we would love to have you join us. Like I said, ServiceNow is such an impactful time. Your leadership in this segment market, and I wouldn’t say segment across all of AI in terms of all the use cases of AI is just so meaningful, especially for within the enterprise. [00:40:33] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Right now. So just really a jogger nut right now within the industry. So great to have you and have ServiceNow join us. So Jen, thank you so much for joining us. [00:40:42] Jen Odess: Thanks Vince. Appreciate the time. It’s a pleasure to be here. [00:40:44] Vince Menzione: Thank you very much. Thanks for tuning into this episode of Ultimate Eye to Partnering. [00:40:50] Vince Menzione: We’re bringing these episodes to you to help you level up your strategy. If you haven’t yet, now’s the time to take action and think about joining our community. We created a unique place, UPX or Ultimate partner experience. It’s more than a community. It’s your competitive edge with insider insights, real-time education, and direct access to people who are driving the ecosystem forward. [00:41:16] Vince Menzione: UPX helps you get results. And we’re just getting started as we’re taking this studio. And we’ll be hosting live stream and digital events here, including our January live stream, the Boca Winter Retreat, and more to come. So visit our website, the ultimate partner.com to learn more and join us. Now’s the time to take your partnerships to the next level.

Eytan Seidman, VP of product at Shopify, joins the podcast to unpack Shopify's Winter '26 Edition and how AI is emerging into the market for developers and merchants. They discuss the new Dev MCP server, showing how tools like Cursor and Claude Desktop can rapidly scaffold Shopify apps, wire up Shopify functions, and ship payment customization and checkout UI extension experiences that lean on Shopify primitives like meta fields and meta objects across online stores and point of sale. Eytan also breaks down how Sidekick connects with apps, why the new analytics API and ShopifyQL open fresh analytics use cases, and more. Links Shopify Winter '26 Edition: https://www.shopify.com/editions/winter2026 We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Fill out our listener survey (https://t.co/oKVAEXipxu)! https://t.co/oKVAEXipxu Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Elizabeth, at elizabeth.becz@logrocket.com (mailto:elizabeth.becz@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Check out our newsletter (https://blog.logrocket.com/the-replay-newsletter/)! https://blog.logrocket.com/the-replay-newsletter/ Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket provides AI-first session replay and analytics that surfaces the UX and technical issues impacting user experiences. Start understanding where your users are struggling by trying it for free at LogRocket.com. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Chapters 01:00 — AI as the Focus of Winter '26 02:00 — MCP Server as the Ideal Dev Workflow 03:00 — Best Clients for MCP (Cursor, Claude Desktop) 04:00 — Hallucinations & Code Validation in MCP 06:00 — Developer Judgment & Platform Primitives 07:00 — Storage Choices: Meta Fields vs External Storage 09:00 — Learning UI Patterns Through MCP 10:00 — Sidekick Overview & Merchant Automation 11:00 — Apps Inside Sidekick: Data & UI Integration 13:00 — Scopes, Data Access & Developer Responsibility 14:00 — AI-Ready Platform & Explosion of New Apps 16:00 — New Developer Demographics Entering Shopify 17:00 — Where Indie Devs Should Focus (POS, Analytics) 18:00 — New Analytics API & Opportunities 19:00 — Full Platform Coverage via MCP Tools 20:00 — Building Complete Apps in Minutes 21:00 — Large Stores, Token Limits & MCP Scaling 22:00 — Reducing Errors with UI & Function Testing 23:00 — Lessons from Building the MCP Server 25:00 — Lowering Barriers for Non-Experts 26:00 — High-Quality Rust Functions via MCP 27:00 — MCP Spec Adoption: Tools Over Resources 28:00 — Future: Speed, Quality & UI Precision 29:00 — Model Evolution, Evals & Reliability 31:00 — Core Shopify Primitives to Build On 33:00 — Docs, Community & Learning Resources

In this episode: Martin has been learning Go and created: Jivedrop - Drop the mix, ship the show-metadata, cover art, and all

The Overtired trio reunites for the first time in ages, diving into a whirlwind of health updates, hilarious anecdotes, and the latest tech obsessions. Christina shares a dramatic spinal saga while Brett and Jeff discuss everything from winning reddit contests to creating a universal markdown processor. Tune in for updates on Mark 3, the magical world of Scrivener, and why Brett’s back on Bing. Don’t miss the banter or the tech tips, and as always, get ready to laugh, learn, and maybe feel a little overtired yourself. Sponsor Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10% of all eCommerce in the US, from household names like Mattel and Gymshark, to brands just getting started. Get started today at shopify.com/overtired. Chapters 00:00 Welcome to the Overtired Podcast 01:09 Christina’s Health Journey 10:53 Brett’s Insurance Woes 15:38 Jeff’s Mental Health Update 24:07 Sponsor Spot: Shopify 24:18 Sponsor: Shopify 26:23 Jeff Tweedy 27:43 Jeff’s Concert Marathon 32:16 Christina Wins Big 36:58 Monitor Setup Challenges 37:13 Ergotron Mounts and Tall Poles 38:33 Review Plans and Honest Assessments 38:59 Current Display Setup 41:30 Thunderbolt KVM and Display Preferences 42:51 MacBook Pro and Studio Comparisons 50:58 Markdown Processor: Apex 01:07:58 Scrivener and Writing Tools 01:11:55 Helium Browser and Privacy Features 01:13:56 Bing Delisting Incident Show Links Danny Brown's 10 in the New York Times (gift link) Indigo Stack Scrivener Helium Bangs Apex Apex Syntax Join the Marked 3 Beta LG 32 Inch UltraFine™evo 6K Nano IPS Black Monitor with Thunderbolt™ 5 Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett + 2 Welcome to the Overtired Podcast Jeff: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. This is the Overtired podcast. The three of us are all together for the first time since the Carter administration. Um, it is great to see you both here. I am Jeff Severance Gunzel if I didn’t say that already. Um, and I’m here with Christina Warren and I’m here with Brett Terpstra and hello to both of you. Brett: Hi. Jeff: Great to see you both. Brett: Yeah, it’s good to see you too. I feel like I was really deadpan in the pre-show. I’ll try to liven it up for you. I was a horrible audience. You were cracking jokes and I was just Jeff: that’s true. Christina, before you came on, man, I was hot. I was on fire and Brett was, all Brett was doing was chewing and dropping Popsicle parts. Brett: Yep. I ate, I ate part of a coconut outshine Popsicle off of a concrete floor, but Jeff: It is true, and I didn’t even see him check it [00:01:00] for cat hair, Brett: I did though. Jeff: but I believe he did because he’s a, he’s a very Brett: I just vacuumed in Jeff: He’s a very good American Brett: All right. Christina’s Health Journey Brett: Well, um, I, Christina has a lot of health stuff to share and I wanna save time for that. So let’s kick off the mental health corner. Um, let’s let Christina go first, because if it takes the whole show, it takes the whole show. Go for it. Christina: Uh, I, I will not take this hold show, but thank you. Yeah. So, um, my mental health is okay-ish. Um, I would say the okay-ish part is, is because of things that are happening with my physical health and then some of the medications that I’ve had to be on, um, uh, to deal with it. Uh, prednisone. Fucking sucks, man. Never nev n never take it if you can avoid it. Um, but why Christina, why are you on prednisone or why were you on prednisone for five days? Um, uh, and I’m not anymore to be clear, but that certainly did not help my mental health. Um, at the beginning of November, I woke up and I thought that I’d [00:02:00] slept on my shoulder wrong. And, um, uh, and, and just some, some background. I, I don’t know if this is pertinent to how my injury took place or not, but, but it, I’m sure that it didn’t help. Um, I have scoliosis and in the top and the bottom of my spine, so I have it at the top of my, like, neck area and my lower back. And so my back is like a crooked s um, this will be relevant in a, in a second, but, but I, I thought that I had slept on my back bunny, and I was like, okay, well, all right, it hurts a lot, but fine. Um, and then it, a, a couple of days passed and it didn’t get any better, and then like a week passed and I was at the point where I was like, I almost feel like I need to go to the. Emergency room, I’m in pain. That is that significant. Um, and, you know, didn’t get any better. So I took some of grant’s, Gabapentin, and I took, um, some, some, uh, a few other things and I was able to get in with like a, a, a sports and spine guy. Um, and um, [00:03:00] he looked at me and he was like, yeah, I think that you have like a, a, a bolting disc, also known as a herniated disc. Go to physical therapy. See me later. We’ll, we’ll deal with it. Um. Basically like my whole left side was, was, was really sore and, and I had a lot of pain and then I had numbness in my, my fingers and um, and, and that was a problem the next day, which was actually my birthday. The numbness had at this point spread to my right side and also my lower extremities. And so at this point I called the doctor and he was like, yeah, you should go to the er. And so I went to the ER and, and they weren’t able to do anything for me other than give me, you know, like, um, you know, I was hoping they might give me like, some sort of steroid injection or something. They wouldn’t do anything other than, um, basically, um, they gave me like another type of maybe, maybe pain pill or whatever. Um, but that allowed the doctor to go ahead and. Write, uh, write up an MRI took forever for me to get an MRI, I actually had to get it in Atlanta. [00:04:00] Fun fact, uh, sometimes it is cheaper to just pay and not go through insurance and get an MR MRI and, um, a, um, uh, an x-ray, um, I was able to do it for $450 Jeff: Whoa. Really? Christina: Yeah, $400 for the MR mri. $50 for the x-ray. Jeff: Wow. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Brett: how I, they, I had an MRI, they charged me like $1,200 and then they failed to bill insurance ’cause I was between insurance. Christina: Yes. Yeah. So what happened was, and and honestly that was gonna be the situation that I was in, not between insurance stuff, but they weren’t even gonna bill insurance. And insurance only approved certain facilities and to get into those facilities is almost impossible. Um, and so, no, there are a lot of like get an MR, I now get a, you know, mammogram, get ghetto, whatever places. And because America’s healthcare system is a HealthScape, you can bypass insurance and they will charge you way less than whatever they bill insurance for. So I, I don’t know if it’s part of the country, you know, like Seattle I think might [00:05:00] probably would’ve been more expensive. But yeah, I was able to find this place like a mile from like, not even a mile from where my parents lived, um, that did the x-rays and the MRI for $450 total. Brett: I, I hate, I hate that. That’s true, but Christina: Me too. Me too. No, no. It pisses me off. Honestly, it makes me angry because like, I’m glad that I was able to do that and get it, you know, uh, uh, expedited. Then I go into the spine, um, guy earlier this week and he looks at it and he’s like, yep, you’ve got a massive bulging disc on, on C seven, which is the, the part of your lower cervical or cervical spine, which is your neck. Um, and it’s where it connects to your ver bray. It’s like, you know, there are a few things you can do. You can do, you know, injections, you can do surgery. He is like, I’m gonna recommend you to a neurosurgeon. And I go to the neurosurgeon yesterday and he was showing me or not, uh, yeah, yesterday he was showing me the, the, the, the scans and, and showing like you up close and it’s, yeah, it’s pretty massive. Like where, where, where the disc is like it is. You could see it just from one view, like, just from like [00:06:00] looking at it like, kind of like outside, like you could actually like see like it was visible, but then when you zoomed in it’s like, oh shit, this, this thing is like massive and it’s pressing on these nerves that then go into my, my hands and other areas. But it’s pressing on both sides. It’s primarily on my left side, but it’s pressing on on my right side too, which is not good. So, um, he basically was like, okay. He was like, you know, this could go away. He was like, the pain isn’t really what I’m wanting to, to treat here. It’s, it’s the, the weakness because my, my left arm is incredibly weak. Like when they do like the, the test where like they, they push back on you to see like, okay, like how, how much can you, what, like, I am, I’m almost immediately like, I can’t hold anything back. Right? Like I’m, I’m, I’m like a toddler in terms of my strength. So, and, and then I’m freaked out because I don’t have a lot of feeling in my hands and, and that’s terrifying. Um, I’m also. Jeff: so terrifying, Christina: I’m, I’m also like in extreme pain because of, of, of where this sits. Like I can’t sleep well. Like [00:07:00] the whole thing sucks. Like the MRI, which was was like the most painful, like 25 minutes, like of my existence. ’cause I was laying flat on my back. I’m not allowed to move and I’m just like, I’m in just incredible pain with that part of, of, of, of my, my side. Like, it, it was. It was terrible. Um, but, uh, but he was like, yeah. Um, these are the sorts of surgical options we have. Um, he’s gonna, um, do basically what what he wants to do is basically do a thing where he would put in a, um, an artificial or, or synthetic disc. So they’re gonna remove the disc, put in a synthetic one. They’ll go in through the, the front of my throat to access the, my, my, my, my spine. Um, put that there and, um, you know, I’ll, I’ll be overnight in the hospital. Um, and then it’ll be a few weeks of recovery and the, the, the pain should go away immediately. Um, but it, it could be up to two years before I get full, you know, feeling back in my arm. So anyway, Jeff: years, Jesus. And Christina: I mean, and hopefully less than that, but, but it could be [00:08:00] up to that. Jeff: there’s no part of this at this point. That’s a mystery to you, right? Christina: The mystery is, I don’t know how this happened. Jeff: You don’t know how it happened, right? Of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Brett: So tell, tell us about the ghastly surgery. The, the throat thing really threw me like, I can’t imagine that Christina: yeah, yeah. So, well, ’cause the thing is, is that usually if what they just do, like spinal fusion, they’ll go in at the back of your neck, um, and then they’ll remove the, the, um, the, the, the, the disc. And then they’ll fuse your, your, your two bones together. Basically. They’ll, they’ll, they’ll, they’ll fuse this part of the vertebrae, but because they’re going to be replacing the, the disc, they need more room. So that’s why they have to go in through the, through, through basically your throat so that they can have more room to work. Jeff: Good lord. No thank you. Brett: Ugh. Wow. Jeff: Okay. Brett: I am really sorry that is happening. That is, that is, that dwarfs my health concerns. That is just constant pain [00:09:00] and, and it would be really scary. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. It’s not great. It’s not great, but I’m, I’m, I’m doing what I can and, uh, like I have, you know, a small amount of, of Oxycodine and I have like a, a, a, you know, some other pain medication and I’m taking the gabapentin and like, that’s helpful. The bad part is like your body, like every 12, 15 hours, like whatever, like the, the, the cycle is like, you feel it leave your system and like if you’re asleep, you wake up, right? Like, it’s one of those things, like, you immediately feel it, like when it leaves your system. And I’ve never had to do anything for pain management before. And they have me on a very, they have me like on the smallest amount of like, oxycodone you can be on. Um, and I’m using it sparingly because I don’t wanna, you know, be reliant on, on it or whatever. But it, it, but it is one of those things where I’m like, yeah, like sometimes you need fucking opiates because, you know, the pain is like so constant. And the thing is like, what sucks is that it’s not always the same type of pain. Like sometimes it’s throbbing, sometimes it’s sharp, sometimes it’s like whatever. It sucks. But the hardest thing [00:10:00] is like, and. This does impact my mental health. Like it’s hard to sleep. Like, and I’m a side sleeper. I’m a side sleeper, and I’m gonna have to become a back sleeper. So, you know. Yeah. It’s just, it’s, it’s not great. It’s not great, but, you know, that, that, that, that, that’s me. The, the good news is, and I’m very, very gratified, like I have a good surgeon. Um, I’m gonna be able to get in to get this done relatively quickly. He had an appointment for next week. I don’t think that insurance would’ve even been able to approve things fast enough for, for, for that regard. And I have, um, commitments that I can’t make then. And I, and that would also mean that I wouldn’t be able to go visit my family for Christmas. So hopefully I’ll do it right after Christmas. I’m just gonna wait, you know, for, for insurance to, to do its thing, knock on wood, and then schedule, um, from there. But yeah, Jeff: Woof. Christina: so that’s me. Um, uh, who wants to go next? Jeff or, uh, Jeff or Brett? Jeff: It’s like, that’s me. Hot potato throwing it. Brett: I’ll, I’ll go. Brett’s Insurance Woes Brett: I can continue on the insurance topic. Um, I was, for a few months [00:11:00] after getting laid off, I was on Minsu, which is Minnesota’s Medicaid, um, v version of Medicaid. And so basically I paid nothing and I had better insurance than I usually have with, uh, you know, a full deductible and premiums and everything. And it was fantastic. I was getting all the care I needed for all of the health stuff I’m going through. Um, I, they, a, a new doctor I found, ordered the 15 tests and I passed out ’cause it was so much blood and. And it, I was getting, but I was getting all these tests run. I was getting results, we were discovering things. And then my unemployment checks, the income from unemployment went like $300 over the cap for Medicaid. So [00:12:00] all of a sudden, overnight I was cut from Medicaid and I had to do an early sign up, and now I’m on courts and it sucks bad. Like they’re not covering my meds. Last month cost me $600. I was also paying. In addition to that, a $300 premium plus every doctor’s visit is 50 bucks out of pocket. So this will hopefully only last until January, and then it’ll flip over and I will be able to demonstrate basically no income, um, until like Mark makes enough money that it gets reported. Um, and even, uh, until then, like I literally am making under the, the poverty limit. So, um, I hope to be back on Medicaid shortly. I have one more month. I’ll have to pay my $600 to refill. I [00:13:00] cashed out my 401k. Um, like things were, everything was up high enough that I had made, I. I had made tens of thousands of dollars just on the investments and the 401k, but I also have a lot of concerns about the market volatility around Nvidia and the AI bubble in general. Um, so taking my money out of the market just felt okay to me. I paid the 10%, uh, penalty Jeff: Mm-hmm. Brett: and ultimately I, I came out with enough cash that I can invest on my own and be able to cover the next six months. Uh, if I don’t have any other income, which I hope to, I hope to not spend my nest egg. Um, but I did, I did a lot of thinking and calculating and I think I made the right choices. But anyway, [00:14:00] that will help if I have to pay for medical stuff that will help. Um. And then I’ve had insomnia, bad on and off. Right now I’m coming off of two days of good sleep. You’re catching me on a good day. Um, but Jeff: Still wouldn’t laugh at my jokes. Brett: before that it was, well, that’s the thing is like before that, it was four nights where I slept two to four hours per night, and by the end of it, I could barely walk. And so two nights of sleep after a stint like that, like, I’m just super, I’m deadpan, I’m dazed. Um, I could lay down and fall asleep at any time. Um, I, so, so keep me awake. Um, but yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s me. Mental health is good. Like I’m in pretty high spirits considering all this, like financial stuff and everything. Like my mood has been pretty stable. I’ve been getting a lot of coding done. I’ll tell you about projects in [00:15:00] a minute, but, um, but that’s, that’s me. I’m done. Jeff: Awesome. I’m enjoying watching your cat roll around, but clearly cannot decide to lay down at this point. Brett: No, nobody is very persnickety. Jeff: I literally have to put my. Well, you say put a cat down like you used to. When you put a kid down for a nap, you say you wanna put ’em down. Right? That’s where it’s coming from. I now have a chair next to my desk, ’cause I have one cat that walks around Yowling at about 11:00 AM while I’m working. And I have to like, put ’em down for a nap. It’s pathetic. It’s pathetic that I do that. Let’s just be clear. Brett: Yeah. Jeff: soulmate though. Jeff’s Mental Health Update Jeff: Um, I’m doing good. I’m, I’m, I’ve been feeling kind of light lately in a nice way. I’ve had ups and downs, but even with the ups and downs, there’s like a, except for one day last week was, there’s just been feeling kind of good in general, which is remarkable in a way. ’cause it’s just like stressful time. There’s some stressful business stuff, like, [00:16:00] a lot of stuff like that. But I’m feeling good and, and just like, uh, yeah, just light. I don’t know, it’s weird. Like, I’ve just been noticing that I feel kind of light and, uh. And not, not manic, not high light. Brett: Yeah. No, that’s Jeff: uh, and that’s, that’s lovely. So yeah. And so I’m doing good. I’m doing good. I fucking, it’s cold. Which sucks ’cause it just means for everybody that’s heard about my workshop over the years, that I can’t really go out there and have it be pleasant Brett: It’s, it’s been Minnesota thus far. Has had, we’ve had like one, one Sub-Zero day. Jeff: whatever. It’s fucking cold. Christina: Yeah. What one? Brett? Brett. It’s December 6th as we’re recording this one Sub-Zero day. That’s insane. Brett: Is it Jeff: Granted, granted I’ve been dressing warm, so I’m ready to go out the door for ice related things. Meaning, meaning government, ice, Brett: Uh, yeah. Yeah. Jeff: So I like wear my long underwear during [00:17:00] the day. ’cause actually like recently. So at my son’s school, which is like six blocks from here, um, has a lot of Somali immigrants in it. And, and uh, and there was a, at one point there was ice activity in the other direction, um, uh, uh, near me. And so neighbors put out a call here around so that at dismissal time people would pair up at all the intersections surrounding the school. And, um, and like a quick signal group popped up, whatever. It was so amazing because like we all just popped out there. And by the time I got out, uh, everyone was already like, posted up and I was like, I’m a, in these situations, I am a wanderer. You want me roaming? I don’t want to pair up with somebody I don’t like, I just, I grabbed a camera with a Zoom on it and like, I was like, I’m in roam. Um, it’s what I was as an activist, what I was as a reporter, like it’s just my nature. Um, but like. Everybody was out and like, and they were just like, they were ready man. And then we got like the all clear and you could just see people in the [00:18:00] neighborhood just like standing down and going home. But because of the true threat and the ongoing arrests here, now that the Minneapolis stuff has started, like I do, I was like wearing long underwear just, and I have a little bag by the door ready to like pop out if something comes up and I can be helpful. Um, and uh, and I guess what I’m saying is I should use that to go into the garage as well if I’m already prepared. Brett: Right. Jeff: But here’s, okay, so here’s a mental health thing actually. So I, one of the, I’ve gone through a few years of just sort of a little bit of paralysis around being able to just, I don’t know what, like do anything that is kind of project related that takes some thinking, whatever it is, like I’m talking about around the house or things that have kind of broken over the years, whatever. So I’ve had this snowblower and it’s a really good snowblower. It’s got headlights. And, uh, and I used to love snow blowing the entire block. Like it just made me feel good, made me feel useful. Um, and sorry I cough. I left it outside for a [00:19:00] year for a, like a winter and a spring and water got into the gas tank. It rusted out in there. I knew I couldn’t start it or I’d ruin the whole damn engine. So I left it for two years and I felt bad about myself. But this year, just like probably a month before the first big snowfall, I fucking replaced a gas tank and a carburetor on a machine. And I have never done anything like that in my life. And so then we got the snowfall and I, and I snow blowed this whole block Brett: Nice. Jeff: great. ’cause now they all owe me. Brett: I, uh, I have a, uh, so I have a little electric powered, uh, snowblower that can handle like two inches of snow. Um, and, and on big snowfalls, if you get out there every hour and keep up with it, it, it works. But, but I, my back right now, I can’t stand for, I can’t stand still for 10 minutes and I can’t move for more than like five minutes. And so I’m, I’m very disabled and El has good days and bad days, uh, thus [00:20:00] far. L’s been out there with a shovel, um, really being the hero. But we have a next door neighbor with a big gas powered snowblower. And so we went over, brought them gifts, and, um, asked if they would take care of our driveway on days we couldn’t, uh, for like, you know, we’d pay ’em 25 bucks to do the driveway. And, uh, and they were, he was still reluctant to accept money. Um. But, but we both agreed it was better to like make it a, a transaction. Jeff: Oh my God. You don’t want to get into weird Minnesota neighbor relational. Brett: right. You don’t want the you owe me thing. Um, so, so we have that set up. But in the process we made really good friends with our neighbor. Like we sat down in their living room for I think 45 minutes and just like talked about health and politics and it was, it was really fun. They’re, they’re retired. They’re in their [00:21:00] seventies and like act, he always looks super grumpy. I always thought he was a mean old man. He’s actually, he laughs more easily than most people I’ve ever met. Um, he’s actually, when people say, oh, he is actually a teddy bear, this guy really is, he’s just jovial. Uh, he just has resting angry old man face. Jeff: Or like my, I have public mis throat face, like when I’m out and about, especially when I’m shopping, I know that my face is, I’m gonna fucking kill you if you look me in the eye Brett: I used Jeff: is not my general disposition. Brett: people used to tell me that about myself, but I feel like I, I carry myself differently these days than I did when I was younger. Jeff: You know what I learned? Do you, have you both watched Veep, Christina: Yes, Jeff: you know, Richard sp split, right? Um, and, and he always kind of has this sweet like half smile and he is kind of looking up and I, I figured out at one point I was in an airport, which is where my kill everybody face especially comes up. Just to be clear. TSA, it’s just a feeling inside. I [00:22:00] have no desire to act to this out. I realized that if I make the Richard Plet face, which I can try to make for you now, which is something like if I just make the Richard Plet face, my whole disposition Brett: yeah. Yeah. Jeff: uh, and I even feel a little better. And so I just wanna recommend that to people. Look up Richard Spt, look at his face. Christina: Hey, future President Bridges split. Jeff: future President Richard Splat, also excellent in the Detroiters. Um, that’s all, uh, that’s all I wanted to say about that. Brett: I have found that like when I’m texting with someone, if I start to get frustrated, you know, you know that point where you’re still adding smiley emoticons even though you’re actually not, you’re actually getting pissed off, but you don’t wanna sound super bitchy about it, so you’re adding smile. I have found that when I add a smiley emoji in those circumstances, if I actually smile before I send it, it like my [00:23:00] mood will adjust to match, to match the tone I’m trying to convey, and it lessens my frustration with the other person. Jeff: a little joy wrist rocket. Christina: Yeah. Hey, I mean, no, but hey, but, but that, that, that, that, that’s interesting. I mean, they’re, they, they’ve done studies that like show that, right? That like show like, you know, I mean, like, some of this is all like bullshit to a certain extent, but there is something to be said for like, you know, like the power of like positive thinking and like, you know, if you go into things with like, different types of attitudes or even like, even if you like, go into job interviews or other situations, like you act confident or you smile, or you act happy or whatever. Even if you’re not like it, the, the, the, the euphoria, you know, that those sorts of uh, um, endorphin reactions or whatever can be real. So that’s interesting. Brett: Yeah, I found, I found going into job interviews with my usual sarcastic and bitter, um, kind of mindset, Jeff: I already hate this job. Brett: it doesn’t play well. It doesn’t play well. So what are your weaknesses? Fuck off. Um,[00:24:00] Christina: right. Well, well, well, I hate people. Jeff: Yeah. Dealing with motherfuckers like you, that’s one weakness. Sponsor Spot: Shopify Brett: let’s, uh, let’s do a sponsor spot and then I want to hear about Christina winning a contest. Christina: yes. Jeff: very Brett: wanna, you wanna take it away? Sponsor: Shopify Jeff: I will, um, our sponsor this week is Shopify. Um, have you ever, have you just been dreaming of owning your own business? Is that why you can’t sleep? In addition to having something to sell, you need a website. And I’ll tell you what, that’s been true for a long time. You need a payment system, you need a logo, you need a way to advertise new customers. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but that is where today’s sponsor, Shopify comes in. shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gym Shark to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready to use [00:25:00] templates. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand’s style, accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping, to processing returns and beyond. If you’re ready to sell, you are ready to Shopify. Turn your Big Business Idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today@shopify.com slash Overtired. Go to shopify.com/ Overtired. What was that? Say it with me. shopify.com/ Overtired [00:26:00] cha. Uh, Brett: the, uh, the group, the group input on the last URL, I feel like we can charge extra for that. That was Jeff: Yeah. Cha-ching Brett: they got the chorus, they got the Overtired Christina: You did. You got the Overtired Jeff: They didn’t think to ask for it, but that’s our brand. Christina: shopify.com/ Overtired. Jeff Tweedy Jeff: What was, uh, I was watching a Stephen Colbert interview with Jeff Tweedy, who just put out a triple album and, uh, it was a very thoughtful, sweet interview. And then Stephen Colbert said, you know, you’re not supposed to do this. And Jeff Tweety said, it’s all part of my career long effort to leave the public wanting less. Christina: Ha, Jeff: That was a great bit. Christina: that’s a fantastic bit. A side note, there are a couple of really good NPR, um, uh, tiny desks that have come out in the last couple of month, uh, couple of weeks. Um, uh, one is shockingly, I, I’ll, I’ll just be a a, a fucking boomer about it. The Googo dolls. Theirs was [00:27:00] great. It’s fantastic. They did a great job. It already has like millions of views, like it wrecked up like over a million views, I think like in like, like less than 24 hours. They did a great job, but, uh, but Brandy Carlisle, uh, did one, um, the other day and hers is really, really good too. So, um, so yeah. Yeah, exactly. So yeah. Anyway, you said, you saying Jeff pd maybe, I don’t know how I got from Wilco to like, you know, there, Jeff: Yeah. Well, they’ve done some good, he’s done his own good Christina: he has, he has done his own. Good, good. That’s honestly, that’s probably what I was thinking of, but Jeff: It’s my favorite Jeff besides me because Bezos, he’s not in the, he’s not in the game. Christina: No. No, he’s not. No. Um, he, he’s, he’s not on the Christmas card list at all. Jeff: Oh man. Jeff’s Concert Marathon Jeff: Can I just tell you guys that I did something, um, I did something crazy a couple weeks ago and I went to three shows in one week, like I was 20 fucking two, Brett: Good grief. Jeff: and. It was a blast. So, okay, so the background of this is my oldest son [00:28:00] loves hip hop, and when we drive him to college and back, or when I do, it’s often just me. Um, he, he goes deep and he, it’s a lot of like, kind of indie hip hop and a lot. It’s just an interesting, he listens to interesting shit, but he will go deep and he’ll just like, give me a tour through someone’s discography or through all their features somewhere, whatever it is. And like, it’s the kind of input that I love, which is just like, I don’t, even if it’s not my genre, like if you’re passionate and you can just weave me through the interrelationship and the history and whatever it is I’m in. So as a result of that, made me a huge fan of Danny Brown and made me a huge fan of the sky, Billy Woods. And so what happened was I went to a hip hop show at the seventh Street entry, uh, which is attached to First Avenue. It’s a little club, very small, lovely little place, the only place my band could sell out. Um, and I watched a hip hop show there on a Monday night, Tuesday night. I went to the Uptown Theater, which Brett is now a actually an operating [00:29:00] theater for shows. Uh, and I, and I saw Danny Brown, but I also saw two hyper pop bands, a genre I was not previously aware of, including one, which was amazing, called Fem Tenal. And I was in line to get into that show behind furries, behind trans Kids. Like it was this, I was the weirdest, like I did not belong. Underscores played, and, and this will mean something to somebody out there, but not, didn’t mean anything to me until that night. And, uh. I felt like such, there were times, not during Danny Brown, Danny Brown’s my age all good. But like there were times where I was in the crowd ’cause I’m tall. Anybody that doesn’t know I’m very tall and I’m wearing like a not very comfortable or safe guy seeming outfit, a black hoodie, a black stocking cap. Like I basically looked like I’m possibly a shooter and, and I’m like standing among all these young people loving it, but feeling a little like, should I go to the back? Even like I was leaving that show [00:30:00] and the only people my age were people’s parents that were waiting to pick them up on the way out. So anyway, that was night two. Danny Brown was awesome. And then two nights later I went to see, this is way more my speed, a band called the Dazzling Kilman who were a band that. Came out in the nineties, St. Louis and a noisy Matthew Rock. Wikipedia claims they invented math rock. It’s a really stupid claim, uh, but it’s a lovely, interesting band and it’s a friend of mine named Nick Sakes, who’s who fronted that band and was in all these great bands back when I was in bands called Colos Mite and Sick Bay, and all this is great shit. So they played a reunion show. In this tiny punk rock club here called Cloudland, just a lovely little punk rock club. And, um, and, and that was like rounded out my week. So like, I was definitely, uh, a tourist the early part of the week, mostly at the Danny Brown Show. But then I like got to come home to my noisy punk rock [00:31:00] on, uh, on Thursday night. And I, I fucking did three shows and it hurt so bad. Like even by the first of three bands on the second night. I was like, I don’t think I can make it. And I do. I already pregame shows with ibuprofen. Just to be really clear, I microdose glucose tabs at shows like, like I am, I am a full on old man doing these things. But, um, I did get some cred with my kids for being at a hyper pop show all by myself. And, Christina: Hell yeah. A a Jeff: friends seemed impressed. Christina: no, as a as, as as they should be. I’m impressed. And like, and I, I, I typically like, I definitely go to like more of like, I go, I go to shows more frequently and, and I’m, I’m even like, I’m, I’m gonna be real with you. I’m like, yeah, three in one week. Jeff: That’s a lot. Christina: That’s a lot. That’s a lot. Jeff: man. Did I feel good when I walked home from that last show though? I was like, I fucking did it. I did not believe I wasn’t gonna bail on at least two of those shows, if not all three. Anyway, just wanted to say Brett: I [00:32:00] do like one show a year, but Jeff: that’s how I’ve been for years this year. I think I’ve seen eight shows. Brett: damn. Jeff: Yeah, it’s Brett: Alright, so you’ve been teasing us about this, this contest you won. Jeff: Yeah, please, Christina. Sorry to push that off. Christina: No, no, no, no. That’s, that’s completely okay. That, that, that, that’s great. Uh, no. Christina Wins Big Christina: So, um, I won two six K monitors. Brett: Damn. Jeff: is that what those boxes are behind you? Christina: Yeah, yeah. This is what the boxes are behind me, so I haven’t been able to get them up because this happened. I got them literally right in the midst of all this stuff with my back. Um, but I do have an Ergotron poll now that is here, and, and Grant has said that he will, will get them up. But yeah, so I won 2 32 inch six K monitors from a Reddit contest. Brett: How, how, how, Jeff: How does this happen? How do I find a Reddit contest? Christina: Yeah. So I got lucky. So I have, I, I have a clearly, well, well, um, there was a little, there was a little bit of like, other step to it than that, but like, uh, so how it worked was basically, um, LG is basically just put out [00:33:00] two, they put out a new 32 inch six K monitor. I’ll have it linked in, in, in the show notes. Um, so we’ve talked about this on this podcast before, but like one of my big, like. Pet peeve, like things that I can’t get past. It’s like I need like a retina screen. Like I need like the, the perfect pixel doubling thing for that the Mac Os deals with, because I’ve used a 5K screen, either through an iMac or um, an lg, um, ultra fine or, um, a, uh, studio display. For like 11 years. And, and I, and I’ve been using retina displays on laptops even longer than that. And so if I use like a regular 4K display, like it just, it, it doesn’t work for me. Um, you can use apps like, um, like better control and other things to kind of emulate, like what would be like if you doubled the resolution, then it, it down, you know, um, of samples that, so that. It looks better than, than if it’s just like the, the, the 4K stuff where in the, the user interface things are too big and whatnot. And to be clear, this is a Macco West problem. If [00:34:00] you are using Windows or Linux or any other operating system that does fractional scaling, um, correctly, then this is not a problem. But Macco West does not do fractional scaling direct, uh, correctly. Um, weirdly iOS can, like, they can do three X resolution and other things. Um, but, but, but Macs does not. And that’s weird because some of the native resolutions on some of the MacBook errors are not even perfectly pixeled doubled, meaning Apple is already having to do a certain amount of like resolution changes to, to fit into their own, created by their, their own hubris, like way of insisting on, on only having like, like two x pixel doubling 18 years ago, we could have had independent, uh, resolutions, uh, um, for, for UI elements and, and, and window bars. But anyway, I, I’m, I’m digressing anyway. I was looking at trying to get either a second, uh, studio display, which I don’t wanna do because Apple’s reportedly going to be putting out a new one. Um, and they’re expensive or getting, um, there are now a number of different six K [00:35:00] displays that are not $6,000 that are on the market. So, um, uh, uh, Asus has one, um, there is one from like a, a Chinese company called like, or Q Con that, um, looks like a, a complete copy of this, of the pro display XDR. It has a different panel, but it’s, it’s six K and they, they’ve copied the whole design and it’s aluminum and it’s glossy and it looks great, but I’d have to like get it from like. A weird distributor, and if I have any issues with it, I don’t really wanna have to send it back to China and whatnot. And then LG has one that they just put out. And so I’ve been researching these on, on Mac rumors and on some other forums. And, um, I, uh, I, somebody in one of the Mac Roomers forums like posted that there was like a contest that LG was running in a few different subreddits where they were like, tell us why you should get one of, like, we’re gonna be giving away like either one or two monitors, and I guess they did this in a few subreddits. Tell us why this would be good for your workflow. And, um, I guess I, I guess I’m one of the people who kind of read the [00:36:00] assignment because it, okay, I’ll just be honest with this, with, with you guys on this podcast, uh, because I, I don’t think anyone from LG will hear this and my answers were accurate anyway. But anyway, this was not the sort of contest where it was like we will randomly select a winner. This was the moderators and lg, were going to read the responses and choose the winner. Jeff: Got it. Christina: So if you spend a little bit of time and thoughtfully write out a response, maybe you stand a better chance of winning the contest. Jeff: yeah, yeah. Put the work in like it was 2002. Christina: Right. Anyway, I still was shocked when I like woke up like on like Halloween and they were like, congratulations, you’ve won two monitors. I’m like, I’m sorry. What? Jeff: That’s amazing. Christina: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeff: Nice work. I know I’ve, you know, I’ve been staring at those boxes behind you this whole time, just being like, those look like some sweet monitors. Christina: yeah, yeah. Monitor Setup Challenges Christina: I mean, and, uh, [00:37:00] uh, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, and I, I’m very much, so my, my, my only issue is, okay, how am I gonna get these on my desk? So I’m gonna have to do something with my iMac and I’m probably gonna have to get rid of my, my my, my 5K, um, uh, uh, studio display, at least in the short term. Ergotron Mounts and Tall Poles Christina: Um, but what I did do is I, um, I ordered from, um, Ergotron, ’cause I already have. Um, two of their, um, LX mounts, um, or, or, or, or arms. Um, and only one of them is being used right now. And then I have a different arm that I use for the, um, um, iMac. Um, they sell like a, if you call ’em directly, you can get them to send you a tall pole so that you can put the two arms on top of them. And that way I think I can like, have them so that I can have like one pole and then like have one on one side, one Jeff: I have a tall pole. Christina: and, and yeah, that’s what she said. Um, Jeff: as soon as I said it, I was like, for fuck’s sake. But Christina: um, but, uh, but, but yeah, but so that way I think I, I can, I, in theory, I can stack the market and have ’em side by side. I don’t know. Um, I got that. I, I had to call Tron and, and order that from them. [00:38:00] Um, it was only a hundred dollars for, for the poll and then $50 for a handling fee. Jeff: It’s not easy to ship a tall pole. Brett: That’s what she said. Christina: that is what she said. Uh, that is exactly what she said. But yeah, so I, I, the, the, the unfortunate thing is that, um, I, um, I, I had to, uh, get a, like all these, they, they came in literally right before Thanksgiving, and then I’ve had, like, all my back stuff has Jeff: Yeah, no Christina: debilitating, but I’m looking forward to, um, getting them set up and used. And, uh, yeah. Review Plans and Honest Assessments Christina: And then full review will be coming to, uh, to, I have to post a review on Reddit, but then I will also be doing a more in depth review, uh, on this podcast if anybody’s interested in, in other places too, to like, let let you know, like if it’s worth your money or not. Um, ’cause there, like I said, there are, there are a few other options out there. So it’s not one of those things where like, you know, um, like, thank you very much for the free monitor, um, monitors. But, but I, I will, I will give like the, the, you know, an honest assessment or Current Display Setup Brett: So [00:39:00] do you currently have a two display setup? Christina: No. Um, well, yes, and kind of, so I have my, my, I have my 5K studio display, and then I have like my iMac that I use as a two to display setup. But then otherwise, what I’ve had to do, and this is actually part of why I’m looking forward to this, is I have a 4K 27 inch monitor, but it’s garbage. And it, it’s one of those things where I don’t wanna use it with my Mac. And so I wind up only using it with my, with my Windows machine, with my framework desktop, um, with my Windows or Linux machine. And, and because that, even though I, it supports Thunderbolt, the Apple display is pain in the ass to use with those things. It doesn’t have the KVM built in. Like, it doesn’t like it, it just, it’s not good for that situation. So yeah, this will be of this size. I mean, again, like I, I, I’m 2 32 inch monitors. I don’t know how I’m gonna deal with that on my Jeff: I Brett: yeah. So right now I’m looking at 2 32 inch like UHD monitors, Christina: Yeah,[00:40:00] Brett: I will say that on days when my neck hurts, it sucks. It’s a, it’s too wide a range to, to like pan back and forth quickly. Like I’ll throw my back out, like trying to keep track of stuff. Um, but I have found that like if I keep the second display, just like maybe social media apps is the way I usually set it up. And then I only work on one. I tried buying an extra wide curve display, hated it. Jeff: Uh, I’ve always wanted to try one, but Christina: I don’t like them. Jeff: Yeah. Christina: Well, for me, well for me it’s two things. One, it’s the, I don’t love the whole like, you know, thing or whatever, but the big thing honestly there, if you could give me, ’cause people are like, oh, you can get a really big 5K, 2K display. I’m like, that’s not a 5K display. That is 2 27 inch, 1440 P displays. One, you know, ultra wide, which is great. Good for you. That’s not retina. And I’m a sicko Who [00:41:00] needs the, the pixel doubling? Like I wish that my eyes could not use that, but, but, but, Jeff: that needs the pixel. Like was that the headline of your Reddit, uh, Christina: no, no. It wasn’t, it wasn’t. But, but maybe it should be. Hi, I’m a sicko who only, um, fucks with, with, with, with, with, with, with retina displays. Ask me anything. Um, but no, but that’s a good point. Brett: I think 5K Psycho is the Christina: 5K Sicko is the po is the po title. I like that. I like that. No, what I’m thinking about doing and that’s great to know, Brett. Um, this kind of reaffirms my thing. Thunderbolt KVM and Display Preferences Christina: So what’s nice about these monitors is that they come with like, built in like, um, Thunderbolt 5K VM. So, which is nice. So you could conceivably have multiple, you know, computers, uh, connected, you know, to to, to one monitor, which I really like. Um, I mean like, ’cause like look, I, I’ve bitched and moaned about the studio display, um, primarily for the price, but at the same time, if mine broke tomorrow and if I didn’t have any way to replace it, I’ve, I’ve also gone on record saying I would buy a new one immediately. As mad as I am about a [00:42:00] lot of different things with that, that the built-in webcam is garbage. The, you know, the, the fact that there’s not a power button is garbage. The fact that you can’t use it with multiple inputs, it’s garbage. But it’s a really good display and it’s what I’m used to. Um, it’s really not any better than my LG Ultra fine from 2016. But you know what? Whatever it is, what it is. Um. I, I am a 5K sicko, but being able to, um, connect my, my personal machine and my work machine at the same time to one, and then have my Windows slash Linux computer connected to another, I think that’s gonna be the scenario where I’m in. So I’m not gonna necessarily be in a place where I’m like, okay, I need to try to look at both of them across 2 32 inch displays. ’cause I think that that, like, that would be awesome. But I feel like that’s too much. Brett: I would love a decent like Thunderbolt KVM setup that could actually swap like my hubs back and Christina: Yes. MacBook Pro and Studio Comparisons Brett: Um, so, ’cause I, I have a studio and I have my, uh, Infor MacBook Pro [00:43:00] and I actually work mostly on the MacBook Pro. Um, but if I could easily dock it and switch everything on my desk over to it, I would, I would work in my office more often. ’cause honestly, the M four MacBook Pro is, it’s a better machine than the original studio was. Um, and I haven’t upgraded my studio to the latest, but, um, I imagine the new one is top notch. Christina: Oh yeah. Yeah. Brett: my, my other one, a couple years old now is already long in the tooth. Christina: No, I mean, they’re still good. I mean, it’s funny, I saw that some YouTube video the other day where they were like, the best value MacBook you can get is basically a 4-year-old M1 max. And I was like, I don’t know about that guys. Like, I, I kind of disagree a little bit. Um, but the M1 max, which is I think is what is in the studio, is still a really, really good ship. But to your point, like they’ve made those, um. You know, the, the, the new ones are still so good. Like, I have an M three max as my personal laptop, and [00:44:00] that’s kind of like the dog chip in the, in the m um, series lineup. So I kind of am regretful for spending six grand on that one, but it is what it is, and I’m like, I’m not, I’m not upgrading. Um, I mean, maybe, maybe in, in next year if, if the M five Pro, uh, or M five max or whatever is, is really exceptional, maybe I’ll look at, okay, how much will you give me to, to trade it in? But even then, I, I, but I feel like I’m at that point where I’m like, it gets to a point where like it’s diminishing returns. Um, but, uh, just in terms of my own budget. But, um, yeah, the, the new just info like pro or or max, whatever, Brett: I have, I have an M four MacBook Pro sitting around that I keep forgetting to sell. Uh, it’s the one that I, it only had a 256 gigabyte hard drive, Jeff: what happened to me when I bought my M1, Brett: and I, and I regretted that enough that I just ordered another one. But, uh, for various reasons, I couldn’t just return the one I didn’t Jeff: ’cause it was.[00:45:00] Brett: so now I, now I have to sell it and I should sell it while it’s still a top of the line machine Christina: Sell it before, sell, sell, sell, sell it before next month, um, or, or February or whenever they sell it before then the, the pros come out. ’cause right now the M five base is out, but the pros are not. So I think feel like you could still get most of your value for it, especially since it has very few battery cycles. Be sure to put the battery cycles on your Facebook marketplace or eBay thing or whatever. Um, I bought my, uh, she won’t listen to this so she won’t know, but, um, they, there was a, a killer Cyber Monday deal, uh, for Best Buy where they had like a, the, the, the, so it’s several years old, but it was the, the M two MacBook Air, but the one that they upgraded to 16 gigs of Ram when Apple was like, oh, we have to have Apple Intelligence and everything, because they actually thought that they were actually gonna ship Apple Intelligence. So they like went back and they, like, they, they, you know, retconned like made the base model MacBook Air, like 16 [00:46:00] gigs. Um, and, uh, anyway, it was, it was $600, um, Jeff: still crazy. Christina: which, which like even for like a, a, a 2-year-old machine or whatever, I was like, yeah, she, my sister, I think she’s on like, like a 2014 or older than that. Like, like MacBook Air. She doesn’t even know where the MagSafe is. I don’t think she even knows where the laptop is. So she’s basically doing everything like on her phone and I’m like, okay, you need a laptop of some type, but at this point. I do feel strongly that like the, the, the $600 or, or, or actually I think it was $650, it was actually less, it is actually more expensive than what the, the, the Cyber Monday sale was, um, the M1, Walmart, MacBook Air. I’m like, absolutely not like that is at this point, do not buy that. Right? Like, I, especially with eight gigs of ram, I’m, I’m like, it’s been, it’s five years old. It’s a, it was a great machine and it was great value for a long time. $200. Cool, right? Like, if you could get something like use and, and, and, and if you could replace the battery or, you know, [00:47:00] for, for, you know, not, not too much money or whatever. Like, I, I, I could see like an argument to be made like value, right? But there’d be no way in hell that I would ever spend or tell anybody else to spend $650 on that new, but $600 for an M two with Jeff: Now we’re talking. Christina: which has the redesign brand new. I’m like, okay. Spend $150 more and you could have got the M four, um, uh, MacBook Air, obviously all around Better Machine. But for my sister, she doesn’t need that, Jeff: What do we have to do to put your sister in this M two MacBook Christina: that, that, that, that, that, that’s exactly it. So I, I, I was, well, also, it was one of those things I was like, I think that she would rather me spend the money on toys for my nephew for Santa Claus than, than, uh, giving her like a, a processor upgrade. Um, Jeff: Claus isn’t real. Brett: Oh shit. Jeff: Gotcha. Every year I spoil it for somebody. This year it was Christina and Brett. Sorry guys. Brett: right. Well, can I tell you guys Jeff: Yeah. [00:48:00] Brett Software. Brett: two quick projects before we do Jeff: Hold on. You don’t have to be quick ’cause you could call it Brett: We’re already at 45 minutes and I want Jeff: What I’m saying, skip GrAPPtitude. This is it? Brett: okay. Christina: us about Mark. Tell us about your projects. Brett: So, so Mark three is, there’s a public, um, test flight beta link. Uh, if you go to marked app.com, not marked two app.com, uh, marked app.com. Uh, you, there’s a link in the, in the, at the top for Christina: Join beta. Mm-hmm. Brett: Um, and that is public and you can join it and you can send me feedback directly through email because, um, uh, uh, the feedback reporter sucks for test flight and you can’t attach files. And half the time they come through as anonymous feedback and I can’t even follow up on ’em. So email me. But, um, I’ll be announcing that on my blog soon-ish. Um, right now there’s like [00:49:00] maybe a couple dozen, um, testers and I, it’s nice and small and I’m solving the biggest bugs right away. Um, so that’s been, that’s been big. Like Mark, even since we last talked has added. Do you remember Jeff when Merlin was on and he wanted to. He wanted to be able to manage his styles, um, and disable built-in styles. There’s now a whole table based style manager where you Jeff: saw that. Brett: you can, you can reorder, including built-in styles. You can reorder, enable, disable, edit, duplicate. Um, it’s like a full, full fledged, um, style manager. And I just built a whole web app that is a style generator that gives you, um, automatic like rhythm calculations for your CSS and you can, you can control everything through like, uh, like UI fields instead of having to [00:50:00] write CSS. Uh, but you can also o open up a very, I’ve spent a lot of time on the code mirror CSS editor in the web app. Uh, so, and it’s got live preview as you edit in the code mirror field. Um, so that’s pretty cool. And that’s built into marts. So if you go to style, um, generate style, it’ll load up a, a style generator for you. Anyway, there’s, there’s a ton. I’m not gonna go into all the details, but, uh, anyone listening who uses markdown for anything, especially if you want ability to export to like Word and epub and advanced PDF export, um, join the beta. Let me know what you think. Uh, help me squash bugs. But the other thing, every time I push a beta for review before the new bug reports come in, I’ve been putting time into a tool. Markdown Processor: Apex Brett: I’m calling [00:51:00] Apex and um, I haven’t publicly announced this one yet, but I probably will by the time this podcast comes out. Jeff: I mean, doesn’t this count? Brett: It, it does. I’m saying like this, this might be a, you hear you heard it here first kind of thing, um, but if you go to github.com/tt sc slash apex, um, I built a, uh, pure C markdown processor that combines syntax from cram down GitHub flavored markdown, multi markdown maku, um, common mark. And basically you can write syntax from any of those processors, including all of their special features, um, and in one document, and then use Apex in its unified mode, and it’ll just figure out what. All of your syntax is supposed to do. Um, so you can take, you can port documents from one platform to another [00:52:00] without worrying about how they’re gonna render. Um, if I can get any kind of adoption with Apex, it could solve a lot of problems. Um, I built it because I want to make it the default processor in marked ’cause right now, you, you have to choose, you know, cram Christina: Which one? Brett: mark and, and choosing one means you lose something in order to gain something. Um, so I wanted to build a universal one that brought together everything. And I added cool features from some extensions of other languages, such as if you have two lists in a row, normally in markdown, it’s gonna concatenate those into one list. Now you can put a carrot on a line between the two lists and it’ll break it into two lists. I also added support for a. An extension to cram down that lets you put double uh, carrots inside a table cell and [00:53:00] create a row band. So like a cell that, that expands it, you rows but doesn’t expand the rest of the row. Um, so you can do cell spans and row spans and it has a relaxed table version where you don’t have to have an alignment row, which is, uh, sometimes we just wanna make quickly table. You make two lines. You put some pipes in. This will, if there’s no alignment row, it will generate a table with just a table body and table data cells in no header. It also allows footers, you can add a footer to a table by using equals in the separator line. Um, it, it’s, Jeff: This is very civilized, Brett: it is. Christina: is amazing, Brett: So where Common Mark is extremely strict about things, um, apex is extremely permissive. Jeff: also itty bitty things like talk about the call out boxes from like Brett: oh yeah, it, it can handle call out syntax from Obsidian and Bear and Xcode Playgrounds. [00:54:00] Um, and it incorporates all of Mark’s syntax for like file includes and even renders like auto scroll pauses that work in marked and some other teleprompter situations. Um, it uses file ude syntax from multi markdown, like, which is just like a curly brace and, uh, marked, which is, uh, left like a double left, uh, angle bracket and then different. Brackets to surround a file name and it handles IA writer file inclusion where you just type a forward slash and then the name of a file and it automatically detects if that file is an image or source code or markdown text, and it will import it accordingly. And if it’s a CSV file, it’ll generate a table from it automatically. It’s, it’s kind of nuts. I, it’s kind of nuts. I could not have done this [00:55:00] without copilot. I, I am very thankful for copilot because my C skills are not, would not on their own, have been up to this task. I know enough to bug debug, but yeah, a lot of these features I got a big hand from copilot on. Jeff: This is also Brett. This is some serious Brett Terpstra. TURPs Hard Christina: Yeah, it is. I was gonna say, this is like Jeff: and also that’s right. Also, if your grandma ever wrote you a note and it, and though you couldn’t really read it, it really well, that renders perfectly Christina: Amazing. No, I was gonna say this is like, okay, so Apex is like the perfect name ’cause this is the apex of Brett. Jeff: Yes. Apex of Brett. Christina: That’s also that, that’s, that’s not an alternate episode title Apex of Brett. Because genuinely No, Brett, like I am, I am so stunned and impressed. I mean, you all, you always impressed me like you are the most impressive like developer that I, that I’ve ever known. But you, this is incredible. And, and this, I, I love this [00:56:00] because as you said, like common Mark is incredibly strict. This is incredibly permissive. But this is great. ’cause there are those scenarios where you might have like, I wanna use one feature from one thing or one from another, or I wanna combine things in various ways, or I don’t wanna have to think about it, you know? Brett: I aals, I forgot to mention I aals inline attribute list, which is a crammed down feature that lets you put curly brackets after like a paragraph and then a colon and then say, dot call out inside the curly brackets. And then when it renders the markdown, it creates that paragraph and adds class equals call out to the paragraph. Um, and in, in Cramon you can apply these to everything from list items to list to block quotes. Like you can do ’em for spans. You could like have one after, uh, link syntax and just apply, say dot external to a link. So the IAL syntax can add IDs classes and uh, arbitrary [00:57:00] attributes to any element in your markdown when it renders to HTML. And, uh, and Apex has first class support for I aals. Was really, that was, that Christina: that was really hard, Brett: I wrote it because I wanted, I wanted multi markdown, uh, for my prose writing, but I really missed the als. Christina: Yes. Okay. Because see, I run into this sort of thing too, right? Because like, this is a problem like that. I mean, it’s a very niche problem, um, that, that, you know, people who listen to this podcast probably are more familiar with than other types of people. But like, when you have to choose your markdown processor, which as you said, like Brett, like that can be a problem. Like, like with, with using Mark or anything else, you’re like, what am I giving up? What do I have? And, and like for me, because I started using mul, you know, markdown, um, uh, largely because of you, um, I think I was using it, I knew about it before you, but largely because of, of, of you, like multi markdown has always been like kind of my, or was historically my flavor of choice. It has since shifted to being [00:58:00] GitHub, labor bird markdown. But that’s just because the industry has taken that on, right? But there were, you know, certain things like in like, you know, multi markdown that work a certain way. And then yeah, there are things in crammed down. There are things in these other things in like, this is just, this is awesome. This Brett: It is, the whole thing is built on top of C mark, GFM, which is GitHub’s port of common mark with the GitHub flavored markdown Christina: Right. Brett: Um, and I built, like, I kept that as a sub-module, totally clean, and built all of this as extensions on top of Cmar, GFM, which, you know, so it has full compatibility with GitHub and with Common Merck by out, like outta the box. And then everything else is built on top of that. So it, uh, it covers, it covers all the bases. You’ll love it Christina: I’m so excited. No, this is awesome. And I Brett: blazing fast. It can render, I have a complex document that, that uses all of its features and it can render it in [00:59:00] 0.006 seconds. Christina: that’s awesome. Jeff: Awesome. Christina: That’s so cool. No, this is great. And yeah, I, and I think that honestly, like this is the sort of thing like if, yeah, if you can eventually get this to like be like the engine that powers like mark three, like, that’ll be really slick, right? Because then like, yeah, okay, I can take one document and then just, you know, kind of, you know, wi with, with the, you know, ha have, have the compatibility mode where you’re like, okay, the unified mode or whatever yo

First things first: David and Nilay are both having some TV problems, and they need to talk it out. But then they get to the news of the week, including Samsung's new extra-foldy foldable phone, and a big change in the design departments at both Apple and Meta. What does it all say about the future of smart glasses? After that, the hosts talk through why Sam Altman declared a code red inside of OpenAI in order to redirect focus to ChatGPT — and whether the technology that has made all these products possible is actually the right technology moving forward. Finally, in the lightning round, it's time for Brendan Carr is a Dummy, recap season, "dear algo," and thermostats. Further reading: Samsung's Z TriFold is official and it looks like a tablet with a phone attached  Huawei tris again.  Huawei's first trifold is a great phone that you shouldn't buy  Apple's head of UI design is leaving for Meta  Apple AI chief steps down following Siri setbacks  Louie Mantia's blog post about Dye Zuck's post about the new team Linux usage on Steam hits a record high for the second month in a row  OpenAI declares ‘code red' as Google catches up in AI race  OpenAI just made another circular deal  Anthropic's AI bubble ‘YOLO' warning  Anthropic's racing OpenAI to go public  Normalizing extraterrestrial data centers I tested five AI browsers and lost my mind in the process The AI boom is based on a fundamental mistake Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research FCC boss Brendan Carr claims another victory over DEI as AT&T drops programs First there was nothing, then there was Hoto and Fanttik This new Honeywell Home smart thermostat can answer your Ring doorbell Spotify Wrapped 2025 turns listening into a competition  YouTube introduces its own version of Spotify Wrapped for videos  Amazon Music Delivered puts your top tunes on a festival poster.  Google Photos Recap will tell you how many selfies you took this year “Dear algo.”  Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Send us a text!Watch this episode on YouTubeThis week, it's the biggest brain drain at Apple for decades — and a lot of Apple fans are celebrating! Also: Intel is coming back to the Mac (but it's not what you think!) and another pedantic Mac question only Griffin can answer. This episode supported by:Listeners like you. Your support helps us fund CultCast Off-Topic, a new weekly podcast of bonus content available for everyone; and helps us secure the future of the podcast. You also get access to The CultClub Discord, where you can chat with us all week long, give us show topics, and even end up on the show. Support The CultCast at support.thecultcast.com — or unsubscribe at unfork.thecultcast.comCultCloth will keep your iPhone, MacBook, display, guitars, glasses and lenses sparkling clean! For a limited time use code CULTCAST at checkout to score a two free CarryCloths with any order $20+ at CultCloth.coNordLayer is an easy to use and easy to set up security platform for businesses. Get the exclusive Black Friday offer: 28% off NordLayer yearly plans with the coupon code cultcast-28. Try it risk-free with a 14-day money-back guarantee at nordlayer.com/cultcast.This week's stories:Apple design chief quits for Meta. Some say good riddance!Social media users responded to big news that Alan Dye will join Meta with Liquid-Glass-focused sarcasm. Is it really such a big loss?Meet Apple's new UI chief, the man Steve Jobs called ‘Margaret'Meet Steve Lemay, the new head of user interface design at Apple, and learn why Steve Jobs called him “Margaret.”Apple replaces AI chief, taps ex-Googler to fix Apple IntelligenceApple's AI chief is out after a string of failures. Learn about the new leadership for the company's critical AI development efforts.Macs might soon have Intel inside again — but there's a twistIn a surprising shift in Apple's chip strategy, Intel will reportedly fabricate low-end M-series chips for future MacBook Air and iPad Pro.How to find your music stats with Apple Music Replay 2025Apple Music Replay is where you find your most-played songs, artists and albums from 2025. Here's how to find it.Griffin on Apple MusicLewis on Apple MusicLeander on Apple Music