The Mortise & Tenon Podcast

Do you believe it's healthier to work with your mind or is it better to work with your hands? We hope you said, “Neither.” Why the dichotomy? In this episode, Joshua and Mike argue that getting stuck in one mode or the other to the exclusion of all else undermines a person's overall health. We are more than brains, and we are more than bodies. Because of this basic reality, seeking to restore balance after a time of intense work is essential to be able to carry on to the next stage of life.

In this new episode of the podcast, Joshua and Mike talk about the proverbial practice of making hay while the sun is shining – as soon as the days start to get longer in the Maine spring, it's time to get to work. They discuss the “House by Hand” 1821 Cape house restoration project and all the progress that has been made since the start of the year, with the goal of getting the Klein family moved into a somewhat completed building by winter. But how “finished” is finished enough? And what does the previous history of this house teach us about the iterative process of living in a structure while working on it? Drawing from Nevan Carling's upcoming Issue Seventeen article, the guys make the argument that an old house is an indispensable article of material culture, and that preserving and living in it is a way of conversing with, and learning from, the past.

In this new episode, the guys talk with woodworker and author Andy Glenn, whose new book Backwoods Chairmakers: In Search of the Appalachian Chairmaker was published by Lost Art Press. If you're interested in handmade and vernacular furniture, this new title should be on the top of your list. Glenn covers, not only the nuts-and-bolts discussions about building these chairs, but also an intimate glimpse into the lives of these makers still actively selling chairs today.

Not everything in life needs to be “set it and forget it.” There are all sorts of things that we would do well to tend to – to care for – to pay attention to. In this episode, Joshua and Mike discuss the value of maintaining the stuff of our lives. Rather than consider it a burden that ought to be overcome, the guys argue that there is something inherently valuable in the practice of tending. Whether it's seasonally adjusting shifting doors, maintaining old wooden windows, or repairing your own vehicles, the act of maintenance is an act of participation, rather than consumption. This podcast conversation is a call to challenge yourself to undertake things you've never done before, because in so doing, you may find that the more you faithfully pay attention to, the more you will grow – not to mention, the more you might learn to appreciate and enjoy the mundane details of life.

John Ruskin once said, “Fine art is that in which the hand, the head, and the heart of man go together.” In this episode, Joshua and Mike discuss the brand-new “Mechanical Arts Program” that they've launched in partnership with Greystone Theological Institute. Inspired by 12th-century theologian Hugh of Saint Victor, their aim is to help thoughtful learners reintegrate the work of the head with the work of the hands. The guys take this episode to discuss the first class held in their Maine woodshop this October.

This episode was recorded on the road back in September, and in it Joshua, Mike, and Eden explain the various ways they've sourced lumber in rural Maine. As a from-the-hip recording, this conversation traverses quite a varied terrain – from the house project status to purchasing lumber in unconventional ways to the damage solar farms have done to the state of Maine. Buckle up – this one's taking you places you never thought you'd go.

In this episode, Joshua and Mike reflect on their time at Handworks, quite possibly the single most significant hand-tool woodworking event in the world. Part travelogue, part update, part rumination, this episode traverses a range of topics. If you weren't there, you really missed out.

Our metaphors matter. When we are in the throes of a busy schedule, our culture encourages us to “crank it out” in order that we might emulate the hard worker who remains steadfast “like a machine”. We are encouraged to “recharge” with enough sleep and “fuel up” with caloric intake only so that we can be all the more efficient the next day. The problem with this metaphor is obvious: We are, in fact, not machines. Embodied creaturely life is organic, not mechanical. In this episode, Joshua and Mike remind us that our work should be aiming for “fruitfulness”, not efficiency, because all good work has latent within it the seeds of further fruit.

In this final episode of their tour through David Pye's The Nature and Art of Workmanship, Joshua and Mike bring up several of their critiques of Pye's thought. As helpful and insightful as he was, the guys both are left feeling like something was missing. See how this book comes up short of a full-orbed, holistic discussion of workmanship and it's enduring value in a technological age.

Joshua and Mike have finally arrived at the final chapter of David Pye's The Nature and Art of Workmanship, and it has been quite a ride. What did Pye see as the future of craftsmanship from his vantage point in 1968? Was he right? Is his assessment still valid in 2023? Listen in to this final installment to find out.

“Handmade” does not mean “shoddy.” This latest episode of the David Pye mini-series tackles chapter 10 of The Nature and Art of Workmanship in which Pye takes John Ruskin to task for his sloppy reasoning about workmanship. Pye's motivation in writing his book was to critique the “illegitimate extensions” of Ruskin's ideas about art and pleasure in work. He believed that a more precise analysis would clear up this muddy thinking so that the crafts could be recovered and dignified once again.

OK… that's an ambiguous title. But, be assured that the guys recorded this episode to make it all come clear. In this next installment, Joshua and Mike expound Chapter 9 of David Pye's The Nature and Art of Workmanship. This chapter is the culmination of his argument about why surface qualities are so important. Get ready to dive into the weeds – no aspect of craftwork is too small to consider carefully.

Another installment of the “Nature and Art of Workmanship” podcast series. Chapter eight deals with the subject of “durability.” Does precision mean durability in all circumstances? Who's “to blame” when a product fails: the designer or the craftsman? All these questions and more are addressed in this episode.

In this episode, Joshua and Mike pick up where they left off with David's Pye classic discussion about the value of craftsmanship in a mechanized age: The Nature and Art of Workmanship. This chapter explains that diversity is essential in design and that the artisan's handwork “picks up where design leaves off” to give us that lively tactile quality that we appreciate at the close proximity of daily use.

Another installment in the Nature and Art of Workmanship series. This time Joshua and Mike walk through chapter six which compares human creativity to the natural world. Regulated work was coveted in ancient cultures because they were surrounded by nature. In our industrial culture, however, we need the liveliness and idiosyncrasy of handwork.

Another installment in the Nature and Art of Workmanship series. This time Joshua and Mike discuss the fifth chapter which shows the limits of design. Much of the success is left to the workman.

In this episode, the guys dive right into the heart of Pye's vision in this book: identifying and appreciating various qualities of workmanship. This is the longest and most detailed chapter in the book but skimming past it guarantees you'll miss his point.

Another installation of Joshua and Mike's discussion on David Pye's book The Nature and Art of Workmanship. This time, the guys dive into the thorny question of what “handmade” actually even means. Is it even a worthwhile concept to use?

The third installment of Joshua and Mike's walkthrough of David Pye's The Nature and Art of Workmanship. This time they look at chapter 2 in which Pye lays out his fundamental (and famous) distinction between workmanship of risk and workmanship of certainty. It might not mean what you think…

In this latest episode, the guys explain the setup to David Pye's discussion about the value of workmanship. Pye explains that it would be a mistake to give too much credit to the design when the quality of the finished object is greatly determined by the artisan's touch. Pye asserts some bold things in this chapter: “Good material is a myth” and “a street full of parked cars is jejune.” Listen to Joshua and Mike discuss this foundational chapter.

In this episode, Joshua and Mike kick off a mini-series chapter-by-chapter walkthrough of David Pye's classic book The Nature and Art of Workmanship. Lots of craftspeople have heard of Pye, but few today understand (or have ever even read) his illuminating book. In this episode, the guys discuss the introduction which charts the course to dispelling myths and misunderstandings. Craft matters. And because of this, Pye invites us to engage in it thoughtfully.

If any of M&T's work is worth pausing to reflect on at the close of the year, this year's would be a prime candidate. Not only has the House By Hand project occupied the bulk of Joshua and Mike's time in 2022, but M&T also published a new book (Worked: A Bench Guide to Hand-Tool Efficiency), ran several Apprenticeship terms, hosted a Summit gathering, and more. Before blindly setting out on the next 12 months of hurried activity, Joshua and Mike take this episode to recap this season of work in order to resolve to make the most of the next steps.

Clear distinctions reveal new things about the world. And in a handcraft context, thinking clearly about what exactly a “tool” is or a “machine” or a “jig” enables woodworkers to maximize their shop satisfaction and efficiency. Some folks seem to think that theory and practice are intrinsically antithetical to each other, but Joshua and Mike have found clear-headedness to be tremendously helpful in the workshop. Think along with the guys as they tackle some thorny questions.

In this episode, the guys give an update on the House By Hand project (http://housebyhand.com) – the granite foundation was constructed, the sill system is in place, the ell is raised and sheathing is underway, and things are getting buttoned up for winter. Joshua and Mike discuss the ins and outs of repairing old timbers with both structural and aesthetic considerations. There's a fine line between “patina” and crud, and a major element of the art of restoration is knowing and respecting the difference.

This episode was recorded on the heels of the first annual Apprenticeship Program Summit gathering. Alumni from the first four terms were invited to the M&T headquarters to share ideas, feast, and make shavings together. In this episode, Joshua and Mike reflect on the weekend-long happenings: the antiques examinations, the woods walk, the house timber restoration, and even the campfire songs. Countless memories were made over this weekend, and the convivial nature of craft was at the heart of it all.

In this new episode of the podcast, Joshua and Mike take up the topic of portable woodworking. They argue that even though modern woodworkers tend to feel safe “within the box” of their workshops, we would all do well to get out a little. Try taking up carving around the campfire or make a simple tool tote to bring around the yard for home repairs. In their conversation, Joshua and Mike discuss how putting yourself in new work scenarios invites learning new ways to work effectively. The “way they did it” in the past was never uniform, nor does it need to be in the present.

The pre-industrial emphasis of M&T never fails to generate puzzlement and questions in an age driven by technology, jigs, and devices. And as Joshua and Mike continue to interact with students and readers, they find they get the same sorts of questions over and over. This recurrence illustrates the gap between the conventional approach to woodworking and the one they spend their energies promoting. In this episode, Joshua and Mike tackle these common questions to try to fill out the bigger picture of what hand-tool work can look like in the 21st century.

In this episode, Joshua and Mike talk about how it is that we learn new skills. They contend that we have to get over a reductive and mechanical way of looking at human life and action. We are not machines and we don't learn new skills by “downloading” information. Instead, we practice. Through sustained work, we begin to embody these new skills in a way that make it look easy – because, in a sense, it actually becomes easy. In this episode, Joshua and Mike bring together several things that rarely appear in the same conversation: downhill skiing, hand skills in relation to intellectual comprehension, Aristotelian ethics, ancient Hebrew cosmology, parenting, and installing a kitchen sink, for starters.

Power tools are dangerous. This should not be a controversial statement, but somehow the observation always incites vigorous debate. In this podcast episode, Joshua and Mike discuss Mike's article in Issue Twelve titled “Risk & Reward: Skill as a Safety Net,” in which he tackles this delicate issue. Rather than falling back on tired clichés, Mike seeks to reframe the discussion in a way that can deal honestly with the injury statistics and enable makers to make tooling choices personally catered to their objectives. If you are operating on the assumption that true woodworkers really ought to power up, you really ought to hear Mike out… before it's too late.

Many woodworkers get into hand tools because they are drawn in by the joinery: dovetails, mortises and tenons, etc. As they continue building pieces in their shops, some begin to wonder if it's possible to “cut the cord” even further. What would it be like to build from scratch without any machinery whatsoever? How would one start with rough boards and end with a beautiful drop-leaf table without ever firing up the dust collector? In this latest episode, Joshua and Mike discuss these questions in light of Joshua's forthcoming book, Worked: A Bench Guide to Hand-Tool Efficiency. Joshua makes the argument that “engineer” woodworkers and “monastic” hand-tool-only woodworkers operate on the same strange assumption: that hand tools are supposed to produce machine-like results. Joshua and Mike discuss another way.

41 – Making Wooden Planes by Mortise & Tenon Magazine

In this latest podcast episode, Joshua and Mike tackle a particularly thorny question head on: What is “craftsmanship,” exactly? While woodworkers of all kinds share a mutual appreciation for craftsmanship, surprisingly, there have been different ideas of what it even means. Is “craftsmanship” the same thing as “making” or is there something more to it? Can woodworking skill be reduced to the ability to repeat precise hand motions? Joshua and Mike argue that there's more to it than that. Throughout the course of the discussion, they explain that the aim of technology is to displace skill for the sake of ease and precision. While technical developments provide real, tangible blessings in so many areas of life, Joshua and Mike contend that it is worth pondering how the “technologizing” of our craft can diminish its splendor.

In this episode, Joshua and Mike don their proverbial tool belts and discuss a restoration project that will occupy the bulk of their focus in 2022 – reconstructing an 1810 New England Cape house. Starting at the beginning, before Mortise & Tenon Magazine even existed, they recount the perilous task of deconstructing the building, raccoon droppings and all. They lay out a plan for restoring and modifying the old frame to meet the needs of a modern family, while maintaining the integrity and history so palpable in this old house.

In this episode of the M&T Podcast, Joshua and Mike take a big-picture, global look at pre-industrial handcraft. This was not a region-specific or time-bound set of practices or traditions but was much more diverse and variegated than we can possibly imagine. Try to picture the breadth of creative work done by human hands before the homogenizing effects of the Industrial Revolution came into play, and you'll begin to get the picture. Starting from their recent efforts to source an obscure Spanish chairmaking tool, they discuss the fascinating pursuit of studying handcraft heritages around the world, and how we can learn more about ourselves in the process.

In this episode, Joshua and Mike dive into that spirited and controversial arena known and feared by all hand-tool woodworkers… Sharpening. Looking at historic references and new practices alike, they make their case for developing the skill of freehand honing – the method they teach their students in the M&T Apprenticeship Program. This method frees you from a reliance on expensive jigs and stones, and allows for fast, repeatable, and reliable results.

Welp… in this episode, Joshua and Mike lay their cards on the table. In case you still wondered about their thoughts on digitally meditated existence, they put it all out there, warning not only of the social implications but also of the implications for handcraft. They ponder whether we can outsource our craft and still feel a sense of ownership of the creative process? They also ask, “How can we utilize digital technologies to make real connections and grow in the craft instead of simply consuming others' experiences?” Gather 'round, you whippersnappers, and hear how it was in the good old days in which humans were grateful to live in the “universe.”

In this new episode, Joshua and Mike talk about how there's no hope of ever coming to the end of this rabbit hole. As it turns out, handcraft is a bottomless pursuit. There are so many skills, so many trades involved in the making of furniture. And, for the relentlessly curious, there is a lifetime ahead of exploration. No matter what your career, what your interest, there is so much to celebrate in the world.

You might have to take a seat for this one; chairmaking, as it turns out, is quite a controversial thing. The recent issue of M&T (#11) features several authors holding up different takes on this ancient craft. How does an artisan work efficiently to be able to compete in the chair market? How does the use of a lathe open a can of worms that has led some to an industrial mentality? What does 20th-century management theory have to do with the way we pick up tools in our own shops today? All these questions and more are explored in this episode.

In this (occasionally tongue-in-cheek) episode of the podcast, Mike and Joshua talk about the great “Sedgwick Mobile Internet Crisis of 2021,” and how dependence on technology and infrastructure can become crippling when those rickety structures are knocked away. They discuss the concept of “resilience,” how broadening a “good,” broad skillset is more valuable than being “great” at just one thing, and how hand tools like the axe have value far beyond use in a zombie apocalypse.

In this episode, Joshua and Mike respond to a thoughtful listener's comments, which inspired a podcast as well as scored a free t-shirt. They discuss elements of craft where they might not see eye-to-eye, but commend the value of being a stubborn woodworker. Looking at what makes a “movement” and why these reactionary efforts often come to nothing, they talk about what might be a better way forward.

In this new podcast episode, Mike and Joshua talk about the struggle to learn new skills and ways to overcome the hurdles. The journey begins with a resolved commitment but is only carried out through regular practice.

Ever had one of those “Eureka” moments in the shop? Maybe while using a new tool or facing a workholding conundrum, you all of the sudden realize why artisans did things the way they did? In this episode, Joshua and Mike were joined by archaeologist-in-training Nevan Carling to talk about specific tool epiphanies they've had over the years. They discuss various workholding methods, styles of hand planes, and even touch on controversial saw nib theories. Join the guys in the M&T workshop, with the recorder on the bench, for this let-it-all-hang-out woodworking conversation.

Many of us find it hard to get time in the shop. Work is demanding, home repairs pile up, the kids need to be carted to and from extra curriculars. When life is full, how can we make room for craft? In this episode, Joshua and Mike explore the value of regular, disciplined practice in a low-investment way. What if you spent only 10-15 minutes per day making shavings? Could you find ways to put tools in your living space so that it's easy to pick it up for a few minutes? In episode 29, the guys argue that regular craft practice (even if it's only a few minutes at a time) is more valuable in the long run than dedicating a whole afternoon every other weekend. They encourage you to find ways to weave craft into your daily life.

This question of ends (goals) and means (methods) is an important issue in woodworking discussions. Some swear by hand tools and wouldn't touch a table saw with a 10' pole. Others see hand tools as inherently backward and nostalgic. Many say each has a place but are fuzzy about what that place is exactly. In this episode, Mike and Joshua tackle this thorny question head on. When do they choose pre-industrial methods over modern technology? Don't they see the irony in podcasting and blogging about hand tools? How do they see these things as coexisting? In this episode, they suggest that before examining our “means,” we would do well to examine our “ends.”

Take a walk with Mike and Joshua around the M&T headquarters and the rest of Joshua's property. They provide a tour of many features: the blacksmith shop, the woodshed, the outhouse, and oak logs for another workbench. Then they make their way around the pond and drop by the chickens, goats, and pigs. Joshua's kids ran amok, and the guys drop in on Joshua's wife who was busy milking the goats. They complete the tour with a discussion of the upcoming Klein family 1810 cape house restoration project.

In this latest podcast episode, Joshua and Mike discuss the sweet spot between bare-knuckled minimalism and cupidinous hoarderism (also known as Tool Acquisition Disorder). Although we all can appreciate a sweet new tool, in real-life projects, the most experienced and pragmatic craftsmen tend to work with a small array of cherished tools. Joshua talks about why there is one chisel he loves. Mike echoes that one particular plane from his collection finds regular use. This simple, pragmatic approach is good food for thought for those just entering into hand-tool woodworking. Don't buy the hype of the advertisers – you don't need much to do good work.

In this podcast episode, Mike and Joshua discussing the value of batch production as they reflect on their recent experience building Boxed Sets for Issues 1-10. They talk about some of the tradeoffs of working on multiples but primarily focus on the positive benefits that a woodworker gains in the experience. They also provide numerous tips derived from their experience working on this project. Lastly, they discuss the diverging views of John Ruskin and David Pye on the issue of division of labor, enjoyment in work, and the value of the workman as being the designer. They discuss how these two men agreed on several important points, which have deeply influenced the vision of Mortise & Tenon. Also, Mike sings some Whitney Houston.

In this episode, Joshua and Mike discuss the idea that “we shape our tools, and thereafter our tools shape us” – the very theme that runs through Issue Ten. They look at several of the upcoming articles and discuss how they were impacted by them as they worked through the editorial process. Issue Ten is full of deep, thoughtful reflection on our tools and the work of our hands.

In the latest episode of the podcast, hosts Joshua Klein and Mike Updegraff explore their early explorations into blacksmithing. They talk about their small forge setup, their struggles in the learning process, and the benefits of exploring new crafts all the same. Joshua also talks about his upcoming article in Issue 10.

In this episode, we tackle the question of “how” one approaches studying a handmade object to learn from it. There aren't too many tools (all of them are inexpensive), and there are a few basic categories of things you should be looking to. We talk about color consistency, inexplicable holes or notches, and how to find things no one ever saw before, even though it was right in front of their faces. This episode was recorded in honor of our good friend, the late Phil Lowe. We'll miss you, Phil.

In our most recent podcast episode, we decided to do things a little different: We recorded the entire episode while working. As we reglazed historic window sashes, we talked all about why we decided to use these windows instead of buying brand-new double-panes, and discussed a few of the tips that helped us along our window restoration journey.