Podcast appearances and mentions of joel low

In this episode of the Being Human podcast, host Dr. Chua Sook Ning sits down with Dr. Joel Low, a clinical psychologist and current president of the Malaysian Society of Clinical Psychology. Joel shares his personal journey and the experiences that led him to pursue a career in clinical psychology, and provides insights into what it truly means to be a clinical psychologist, shedding light on the rewards and challenges of this demanding yet fulfilling profession. Throughout the conversation, Dr. Chua and Dr. Low discuss the current state of clinical psychology training programs, discussing key issues and areas for improvement. They offer valuable advice for people considering a career in clinical psychology, helping them navigate the decision-making process and determine if this field aligns with their passions and goals. -- To find out more about Relate Malaysia's services and work, visit www.relate.com.my

New year, new me, or at least that's how the saying goes. But the last few days of the year - and the first few days - can also bring up an extra dose of nostalgia as we think about the past and meet up with friends and family. Why do we tend to feel nostalgic as we grow older and is there such a thing as being too nostalgic? Here to help us delve into that is clinical psychologist Dr Joel Low.Image credit: Shutterstock

Have you ever had that one famous movie star, athlete or public figure that you really admired? Perhaps you've even had a “celebrity crush” or feel like they could be your friend? Most of us have probably formed at least one parasocial relationship in our lives, and with social media, these individuals feel more relatable than ever. Why do we form such attachments to people we don't know? And when does that behaviour border on unhealthy, or even dangerous? Joining us on the show to share more about the psychology behind this is clinical psychologist Dr Joel Low. Image Credit: Shutterstock

There's a song for every meaningful moment in life. We're giving you the chance to share the soundtrack of your life with us! Our Mind Matters psychologist Dr. Joel Low shares his ultimate playlist.

Synopsis: In this special series, The Straits Times dives into some of the greatest unsolved mysteries in South-east Asia, and examines the underlying issues that they exposed. In this episode, we revisit the mystery of Malaysian flight MH370, the plane that vanished into thin air on 8 March, 2014. ST's Malaysia correspondent Hazlin Hassan narrates and also speaks with the following guests - French journalist Florence De Changy, who has written her book called The Disappearing Act: The Impossible Case of MH370, ST's Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh. She also interviews the husband of a passenger on board MH370 - management consultant K.S. Narendran and Dr Joel Low, a clinical psychologist. Highlights (click/tap above): (Headphones recommended) 02:05 Recap on what happened to flight MH370 eight years on 05:55 Crash location: What data and debris washing ashore in six different countries point to 07:55 Theory #1: British retiree Richard Godfrey predicts where the plane crashed 08:43 Theory #2: French journalist Florence De Changy believes that the plane was shot down from above the South China Sea 15:45 ST Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh explains how the information gap has dogged investigations from the very start  20:07 One family member of a MH370 passenger finds catharsis writing about his personal ordeal 22:40 Why alternative theories and wild speculation still proliferate as people struggle to find ways to cope in the aftermath of disaster Check out ST's interactive special on MH370 at str.sg/mh370 Produced by: Tan Jia Ning (jianing@sph.com.sg), Hazlin Hassan (hazlinh@sph.com.sg), Magdalene Fung (magfung@sph.com.sg), Ernest Luis and Teo Tong Kai Edited by: Teo Tong Kai Follow The Unsolved Mysteries Of South-east Asia podcast series here every third Tuesday of the month till July: Channel: https://str.sg/wuZ2 Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/wu3W Spotify: https://str.sg/wuJ9 SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg/ Website: http://str.sg/stpodcasts Feedback to: podcast@sph.com.sg Read Hazlin Hassan's articles: https://str.sg/wsys --- Discover ST's special edition podcasts: Singapore's War On Covid: https://str.sg/wuJa The Unsolved Mysteries of South-east Asia: https://str.sg/wuZ2 Stop Scams: https://str.sg/wuZB Invisible Asia: https://str.sg/wuZn --- Discover more ST podcast series: Asian Insider: https://str.sg/JWa7 Green Pulse: https://str.sg/JWaf Health Check: https://str.sg/JWaN In Your Opinion: https://str.sg/w7Qt Your Money & Career: https://str.sg/wB2m SG Extra: https://str.sg/wukR #PopVultures: https://str.sg/JWad ST Sports Talk: https://str.sg/JWRE Bookmark This!: https://str.sg/JWas The Big Story: https://str.sg/wuZe Lunch With Sumiko: https://str.sg/J6hQ Discover BT Podcasts: https://bt.sg/pcPL Follow our shows then, if you like short, practical podcasts! #unsolved See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Synopsis: In this special series, The Straits Times dives into some of the greatest unsolved mysteries in South-east Asia, and examines the underlying issues that they exposed. In this episode, we revisit the mystery of Malaysian flight MH370, the plane that vanished into thin air on 8 March, 2014. ST's Malaysia correspondent Hazlin Hassan narrates and also speaks with the following guests - French journalist Florence De Changy, who has written her book called The Disappearing Act: The Impossible Case of MH370, ST's Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh. She also interviews the husband of a passenger on board MH370 - management consultant K.S. Narendran and Dr Joel Low, a clinical psychologist. Highlights (click/tap above): (Headphones recommended) 02:05 Recap on what happened to flight MH370 eight years on 05:55 Crash location: What data and debris washing ashore in six different countries point to 07:55 Theory #1: British retiree Richard Godfrey predicts where the plane crashed 08:43 Theory #2: French journalist Florence De Changy believes that the plane was shot down from above the South China Sea 15:45 ST Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh explains how the information gap has dogged investigations from the very start  20:07 One family member of a MH370 passenger finds catharsis writing about his personal ordeal 22:40 Why alternative theories and wild speculation still proliferate as people struggle to find ways to cope in the aftermath of disaster Check out ST's interactive special on MH370 at str.sg/mh370 Produced by: Tan Jia Ning (jianing@sph.com.sg), Hazlin Hassan (hazlinh@sph.com.sg), Magdalene Fung (magfung@sph.com.sg), Ernest Luis and Teo Tong Kai Edited by: Teo Tong Kai Follow The Unsolved Mysteries Of South-east Asia podcast series here every third Tuesday of the month till July: Channel: https://str.sg/wuZ2 Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/wu3W Spotify: https://str.sg/wuJ9 SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg/ Website: http://str.sg/stpodcasts Feedback to: podcast@sph.com.sg Read Hazlin Hassan's articles: https://str.sg/wsys --- Discover ST's special edition podcasts: Singapore's War On Covid: https://str.sg/wuJa The Unsolved Mysteries of South-east Asia: https://str.sg/wuZ2 Stop Scams: https://str.sg/wuZB Invisible Asia: https://str.sg/wuZn --- Discover more ST podcast series: Asian Insider: https://str.sg/JWa7 Green Pulse: https://str.sg/JWaf Health Check: https://str.sg/JWaN In Your Opinion: https://str.sg/w7Qt Your Money & Career: https://str.sg/wB2m SG Extra: https://str.sg/wukR #PopVultures: https://str.sg/JWad ST Sports Talk: https://str.sg/JWRE Bookmark This!: https://str.sg/JWas The Big Story: https://str.sg/wuZe Lunch With Sumiko: https://str.sg/J6hQ Discover BT Podcasts: https://bt.sg/pcPL Follow our shows then, if you like short, practical podcasts! #unsolved See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Aishah, RD & Prem sat down with Dr Joel Low, Director and Clinical Psychologist at The Mind Psychological Services and Training to talk about importance of play for adults, impact if we lack of play in our lives and more!

The recent news of the death of a house officer has renewed allegations of bullying within the healthcare fraternity, leading to calls by doctors, medical organisations and politicians for the Ministry of Health to ensure that junior doctors aren't working in a toxic environment. Since then, Minister of Health Khairy Jamaluddin has announced that an independent task force will be set up to look into allegations of a prevalent bullying culture. But for those who have been bullied, especially at work, what toll does that take on your mental health? And what does it tell us, when people working in medicine, who are meant to save lives and act with compassion, are being accused of bullying their peers? Consultant clinical psychologist Dr Joel Low weighs in. Image credit: Shutterstock

The recent news of the death of a house officer has renewed allegations of bullying within the healthcare fraternity, leading to calls by doctors, medical organisations and politicians for the Ministry of Health to ensure that junior doctors aren't working in a toxic environment. Since then, Minister of Health Khairy Jamaluddin has announced that an independent task force will be set up to look into allegations of a prevalent bullying culture. But for those who have been bullied, especially at work, what toll does that take on your mental health? And what does it tell us, when people working in medicine, who are meant to save lives and act with compassion, are being accused of bullying their peers? Consultant clinical psychologist Dr Joel Low weighs in. Image credit: Shutterstock

Synopsis: In this special series, The Straits Times dives into some of the greatest unsolved mysteries in South-east Asia, and examines the underlying issues that they exposed. In this episode, we revisit the mystery of Malaysian flight MH370, the plane that vanished into thin air on 8 March, 2014. ST's Malaysia correspondent Hazlin Hassan narrates and also speaks with the following guests - French journalist Florence De Changy, who has written her book called The Disappearing Act: The Impossible Case of MH370, ST's Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh. She also interviews the husband of a passenger on board MH370 - management consultant K.S. Narendran and Dr Joel Low, a clinical psychologist. Highlights (click/tap above): (Headphones recommended) 02:05 Recap on what happened to flight MH370 eight years on 05:55 Crash location: What data and debris washing ashore in six different countries point to 07:55 Theory #1: British retiree Richard Godfrey predicts where the plane crashed 08:43 Theory #2: French journalist Florence De Changy believes that the plane was shot down from above the South China Sea 15:45 ST Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh explains how the information gap has dogged investigations from the very start  20:07 One family member of a MH370 passenger finds catharsis writing about his personal ordeal 22:40 Why alternative theories and wild speculation still proliferate as people struggle to find ways to cope in the aftermath of disaster Check out ST's interactive special on MH370 at str.sg/mh370 Produced by: Tan Jia Ning (jianing@sph.com.sg), Hazlin Hassan (hazlinh@sph.com.sg), Magdalene Fung (magfung@sph.com.sg), Ernest Luis and Teo Tong Kai Edited by: Teo Tong Kai Follow The Unsolved Mysteries Of South-east Asia podcast series here every third Tuesday of the month till July: Unsolved Mysteries Playlist: https://str.sg/ws76 Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/wsCb Spotify: https://str.sg/wsCa Google Podcasts: https://str.sg/wsCE SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg/ Website: http://str.sg/stpodcasts Feedback to: podcast@sph.com.sg Read Hazlin Hassan's articles: https://str.sg/wsys --- Follow Asian Insider Podcast channel: Channel: https://str.sg/JWa7 Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/JWa8 Google Podcasts: https://str.sg/wQsB  Spotify: https://str.sg/JWaX --- Discover ST's special edition podcasts: Singapore's War On Covid: https://str.sg/wsfD The Unsolved Mysteries of South-east Asia Embed: https://str.sg/ws76 Stop Scams: https://str.sg/wnBi --- Discover more ST podcast series: In Your Opinion Podcast: https://str.sg/w7Qt SG Extra Podcast: https://str.sg/wX8w  Asian Insider Podcast: https://str.sg/JWa7 Green Pulse Podcast: https://str.sg/JWaf Health Check Podcast: https://str.sg/JWaN #PopVultures Podcast: https://str.sg/JWad ST Sports Talk Podcast: https://str.sg/JWRE Bookmark This! Podcast: https://str.sg/JWas Lunch With Sumiko Podcast: https://str.sg/J6hQ Discover BT Podcasts: https://bt.sg/pcPL Follow our shows then, if you like short, practical podcasts! #AsianInsider #unsolved See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Synopsis: In this special series, The Straits Times dives into some of the greatest unsolved mysteries in South-east Asia, and examines the underlying issues that they exposed. In this episode, we revisit the mystery of Malaysian flight MH370, the plane that vanished into thin air on 8 March, 2014. ST's Malaysia correspondent Hazlin Hassan narrates and also speaks with the following guests - French journalist Florence De Changy, who has written her book called The Disappearing Act: The Impossible Case of MH370, ST's Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh. She also interviews the husband of a passenger on board MH370 - management consultant K.S. Narendran and Dr Joel Low, a clinical psychologist. Highlights (click/tap above): (Headphones recommended) 02:05 Recap on what happened to flight MH370 eight years on 05:55 Crash location: What data and debris washing ashore in six different countries point to 07:55 Theory #1: British retiree Richard Godfrey predicts where the plane crashed 08:43 Theory #2: French journalist Florence De Changy believes that the plane was shot down from above the South China Sea 15:45 ST Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh explains how the information gap has dogged investigations from the very start  20:07 One family member of a MH370 passenger finds catharsis writing about his personal ordeal 22:40 Why alternative theories and wild speculation still proliferate as people struggle to find ways to cope in the aftermath of disaster Check out ST's interactive special on MH370 at str.sg/mh370 Produced by: Tan Jia Ning (jianing@sph.com.sg), Hazlin Hassan (hazlinh@sph.com.sg), Magdalene Fung (magfung@sph.com.sg), Ernest Luis and Teo Tong Kai Edited by: Teo Tong Kai Follow The Unsolved Mysteries Of South-east Asia podcast series here every third Tuesday of the month till July: Unsolved Mysteries Playlist: https://str.sg/ws76 Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/wsCb Spotify: https://str.sg/wsCa Google Podcasts: https://str.sg/wsCE SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg/ Website: http://str.sg/stpodcasts Feedback to: podcast@sph.com.sg Read Hazlin Hassan's articles: https://str.sg/wsys --- Follow Asian Insider Podcast channel: Channel: https://str.sg/JWa7 Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/JWa8 Google Podcasts: https://str.sg/wQsB  Spotify: https://str.sg/JWaX #AsianInsider See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Synopsis: In this special series, The Straits Times dives into some of the greatest unsolved mysteries in South-east Asia, and examines the underlying issues that they exposed.In this episode, we revisit the mystery of Malaysian flight MH370, the plane that vanished into thin air on 8 March, 2014.ST's Malaysia correspondent Hazlin Hassan narrates and also speaks with the following guests - French journalist Florence De Changy, who has written her book called The Disappearing Act: The Impossible Case of MH370, ST's Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh.She also interviews the husband of a passenger on board MH370 - management consultant K.S. Narendran and Dr Joel Low, a clinical psychologist.Highlights (click/tap above): (Headphones recommended)02:05 Recap on what happened to flight MH370 eight years on 05:55 Crash location: What data and debris washing ashore in six different countries point to 07:55 Theory #1: British retiree Richard Godfrey predicts where the plane crashed08:43 Theory #2: French journalist Florence De Changy believes that the plane was shot down from above the South China Sea15:45 ST Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh explains how the information gap has dogged investigations from the very start 20:07 One family member of a MH370 passenger finds catharsis writing about his personal ordeal22:40 Why alternative theories and wild speculation still proliferate as people struggle to find ways to cope in the aftermath of disaster Check out ST's interactive special on MH370 at str.sg/mh370 Produced by: Tan Jia Ning (jianing@sph.com.sg), Hazlin Hassan (hazlinh@sph.com.sg), Magdalene Fung (magfung@sph.com.sg), Ernest Luis and Teo Tong Kai Edited by: Teo Tong Kai Follow The Unsolved Mysteries Of South-east Asia podcast series here every third Tuesday of the month till July: Channel: https://str.sg/wuZ2 Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/wu3W Spotify: https://str.sg/wuJ9 Google Podcasts: https://str.sg/wE7i SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg/ Website: http://str.sg/stpodcasts Feedback to: podcast@sph.com.sg Read Hazlin Hassan's articles: https://str.sg/wsys --- Discover more ST podcast channels: All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7 The Usual Place: https://str.sg/wEr7u In Your Opinion: https://str.sg/w7Qt COE Watch: https://str.sg/iTtE Asian Insider: https://str.sg/JWa7 Health Check: https://str.sg/JWaN Green Pulse: https://str.sg/JWaf Your Money & Career: https://str.sg/wB2m Hard Tackle: https://str.sg/JWRE #PopVultures: https://str.sg/JWad Music Lab: https://str.sg/w9TX --- ST Podcast website: http://str.sg/stpodcasts ST Podcasts YouTube: https://str.sg/4Vwsa --- Special edition series: True Crimes Of Asia (6 eps): https://str.sg/i44T The Unsolved Mysteries of South-east Asia (5 eps): https://str.sg/wuZ2 Invisible Asia (9 eps): https://str.sg/wuZn Stop Scams (10 eps): https://str.sg/wuZB Singapore's War On Covid (5 eps): https://str.sg/wuJa --- Get The Straits Times' app, which has a dedicated podcast player section: The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX #unsolvedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Synopsis: In this special series, The Straits Times dives into some of the greatest unsolved mysteries in South-east Asia, and examines the underlying issues that they exposed.In this episode, we revisit the mystery of Malaysian flight MH370, the plane that vanished into thin air on 8 March, 2014.ST's Malaysia correspondent Hazlin Hassan narrates and also speaks with the following guests - French journalist Florence De Changy, who has written her book called The Disappearing Act: The Impossible Case of MH370, ST's Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh.She also interviews the husband of a passenger on board MH370 - management consultant K.S. Narendran and Dr Joel Low, a clinical psychologist.Highlights (click/tap above): (Headphones recommended)02:05 Recap on what happened to flight MH370 eight years on 05:55 Crash location: What data and debris washing ashore in six different countries point to 07:55 Theory #1: British retiree Richard Godfrey predicts where the plane crashed08:43 Theory #2: French journalist Florence De Changy believes that the plane was shot down from above the South China Sea15:45 ST Malaysia bureau chief Shannon Teoh explains how the information gap has dogged investigations from the very start 20:07 One family member of a MH370 passenger finds catharsis writing about his personal ordeal22:40 Why alternative theories and wild speculation still proliferate as people struggle to find ways to cope in the aftermath of disaster Check out ST's interactive special on MH370 at str.sg/mh370 Produced by: Tan Jia Ning (jianing@sph.com.sg), Hazlin Hassan (hazlinh@sph.com.sg), Magdalene Fung (magfung@sph.com.sg), Ernest Luis and Teo Tong Kai Edited by: Teo Tong Kai Follow The Unsolved Mysteries Of South-east Asia podcast series here every third Tuesday of the month till July: Channel: https://str.sg/wuZ2 Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/wu3W Spotify: https://str.sg/wuJ9 Google Podcasts: https://str.sg/wE7i SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg/ Website: http://str.sg/stpodcasts Feedback to: podcast@sph.com.sg Read Hazlin Hassan's articles: https://str.sg/wsys --- Discover ST's special edition podcasts: Singapore's War On Covid: https://str.sg/wuJa The Unsolved Mysteries of South-east Asia: https://str.sg/wuZ2 Stop Scams: https://str.sg/wuZB Invisible Asia: https://str.sg/wuZn --- Discover more ST podcast series: Asian Insider: https://str.sg/JWa7 Green Pulse: https://str.sg/JWaf Health Check: https://str.sg/JWaN In Your Opinion: https://str.sg/w7Qt Your Money & Career: https://str.sg/wB2m SG Extra: https://str.sg/wukR #PopVultures: https://str.sg/JWad ST Sports Talk: https://str.sg/JWRE Bookmark This!: https://str.sg/JWas Lunch With Sumiko: https://str.sg/J6hQ Discover ST Podcasts: http://str.sg/stpodcasts Discover BT Podcasts: https://bt.sg/pcPL Follow our shows then, if you like short, practical podcasts! #unsolvedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Doctor Joel Low, Clinical Psychologist joined #TheLITEBreakfast with Asha to talk about changes in our brain when we set goals for ourselves.

Dr. Joel Low, Clinical Psychologist joined Asha & JD on #TheLITEBreakfast to give advice to those who wants to move faraway.

2021 was a far cry from the “return to normal” that some of us expected at the end of last year. Instead, movement restrictions were reimposed and we continued to stay at home in a bid to keep the pandemic under control. As we look forward to another new year, we also want to reflect on 2021, and in the first episode of this short series, HR consultant Deepa George and consultant clinical psychologist Dr Joel Low joins us to look back on the year that was at work and the toll it has taken on our mental and emotional well-being.Image credit: Shutterstock

All too often do we hear (or watch!) about pets and their unwanted, and sometimes, destructive behaviors, especially when their owners leave their homes. Could these be attributes of separation anxiety in your pets? Do they manifest the same way as with humans? In what way are they similar or different? Join us in this interesting discussion with our esteemed guests, Dr. Natasha Lee, a veterinarian specializing in animal welfare, as well as Dr. Joel Low, a clinical psychologist (for humans) as they share more tips to handle separation anxiety for your friends and family - be it two- or four-legged.

All too often do we hear (or watch!) about pets and their unwanted, and sometimes, destructive behaviors, especially when their owners leave their homes. Could these be attributes of separation anxiety in your pets? Do they manifest the same way as with humans? In what way are they similar or different? Join us in this interesting discussion with our esteemed guests, Dr. Natasha Lee, a veterinarian specializing in animal welfare, as well as Dr. Joel Low, a clinical psychologist (for humans) as they share their thoughts.

Dr. Joel Low, Psychologist joined @therealashagill & @iamjasondesmond on #TheLITEBreakfast tomorrow! He discussed about paranoia and the need to prepare for the worst

Clinical Psychologist at The Mind Psychological Services & Training, Dr. Joel Low on #TheLiteBreakfast.

Clinical Psychologist at The Mind Psychological Services & Training, Dr. Joel Low on #TheLiteBreakfast.

Clinical Psychologist at The Mind Psychological Services & Training, Dr. Joel Low on #TheLiteBreakfast.

Clinical psychologist, Dr Joel Low joined Bel and JD on #TheLITEBreakfast this morning.He shared some advice for someone who just got out of a long-term relationship and for those who want to get married early in the relationship.

In this episode, we have Joel Jensen from Tax Sentry explain exactly why real estate is so powerful when it comes to tax benefits.  --- Transcript:   Michael: Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode, The Remote Real Estate Investor, I'm Michael Albaum. And today I'm joined by Emil Shour. And today as our guest, we have Joel Jensen from Tax Sentry, and Joel is a tax expert and guru, and is going to be talking to us today about what we as investors need to know about income taxes and how to strategize and plan for our taxes so that we can come out ahead. So let's get into it.   Theme Song   Michael: Joel, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate you taking the time.   Joel: Sure. I love to be here.   Michael: Awesome. So can you give all of our listeners a little bit of background about yourself and how long you've been working in the tax space and kind of what you've been doing?   Joel: You bet. So I graduated with my master's degree from Brigham Young University in the early nineties. So it feels like a long time ago, but from there I went to work for Ernst and Young, which is one of the, we'll call them the last four large service firms out there. When I was there, they were the big six. Now I kind of call them the final four, but I was with Ernst and Young for about 10 years working on large audits, large compliance, scc transactions, that type of thing. And after doing it for 10 years, the part of the job I really, really liked was working with people, you know, the interactions I had with people, the part I didn't like was feeling like that was just servicing kind of these large companies.   So what I decided to do was leave Ernst and Young kind of start my own firm. So I could actually have a significant impact on an individual's tax and financial circumstances where I felt it was much more gratifying for myself personally. And I've been doing that for almost 20 years now, became a real estate investor myself, probably back in 2005. So I've been doing that as well on the side, which I really enjoy some houses, own some rental properties. So since then, I guess I'm in the real estate game, but my full time job is CPA. Great.   Michael: You know, it's so counterintuitive that you mentioned that the favorite part of your job working at one of the big six of the big four was interacting with people. Cause all the accountants I know the worst part of their day is when they have to interact with people.   Joel: I know there's probably only lasted 10 years, right? I'm like, ah, this isn't for me. I gotta go, gotta get out. I gotta get out now while I can.   Michael: Awesome. Awesome. So, and I love too that you're an investor because you drinking the Koolaid too. And so really talking and preaching and consulting on the things that you're also doing.   Joel: Correct. Yeah. So I think it helps, you know, if you're dealing with a CPA, for example, that at least they have a working knowledge of what it is that you do. And since I am in the real estate game, obviously I have lots of real estate clients, even contractor clients, anyone, even within the field of real estate, whether they own it or provide services to people who own real estate, that kind of outlines a significant of my clients.   Michael: Great, great. So I wanted to jump into the meat and potatoes of this tax discussion right away. And I'm gonna let Emil kick it off in talking about deductions and kind of what those are, what those look like, what people should be aware of.   Emil: So the various types of deductions that real estate investors should have on their radar are property taxes, property insurance, mortgage, interest, property management, fees, property repairs, and maintenance, capital improvements, and ongoing maintenance and advertising expenses. So things like the cost to list a rental, to find a new tenant marketing your property for sale. Those things are also deductions as well.   Joel: Let me go through maybe the aspect of what it is like to actually own a property. So I go out and I buy a rental property. I'm going to bring that in. I'm going to put a renter in there and I'm going to earn rental income, right? So that's kind of the basic premise of when I own a rental property. Now what's offsetting part of that revenue are some of the standard deductions, like you mentioned. So oftentimes when we buy rental real estate property, we're financing it. So we have mortgage interest, right? We're deducting against that revenue. We have insurance that we have to pay to insure the property that we're also going to deduct against that revenue. Oftentimes it's maybe it's our self, right? Maybe we're managing a property and we don't have a management company that's doing it. Or let's say the property is, I don't know, a hundred miles away from me.   So I have to get a property management company involved. So I got to pay them in order to do it. So I may have some of those types of fees, maybe some HOA fees for owning the property that are due, especially in kind of a condominium space, right? Condos or maybe apartments or multi-doors, rental properties, that sort of thing. I may have some of those fees as well. You know, advertising, whether I'm advertising something for a person to rent or whether I'm advertising for maybe a home to sell all those costs, kind of go in to offset my particular rental income that I'm earning. So if you can think of kind of, if I take, you know, lots of people have experienced with their personal homes, right? And they say, look at all these outgoing bills, you know, utilities, interest in my property, taxes, all those things, think of it in those terms, all those same expenses that you have for your personal home, you're still going to have for your rental property. Cause it is still house, right? In most cases, right? So you're going to have those expenses. Now, all of those things that you're paying out for that property become deductions against your revenue. So I would just look at it as kind of all the expenses that are associated with the property. I get to deduct to get any rental income that a renter is paying me.   Michael: And that's so different than like you mentioned on our primary residence. If someone has a primary and they have a property tax bill, they don't get to deduct that against any income because there isn't an income, but they don't get to deduct that against them. So it sounds like pretty much everything on a rental property, if it's an expense as a deduction.   Joel: Yeah possibly can be, yeah. So let's make it easy. So I got to go change a light bulb for someone because they don't have a ladder. So I go to Depot, I buy a light, I go over to my rental property. I put that light bulb in, I get the cost of that light bulb and I get a mileage deduction for driving down home Depot and for driving over to my rental property and then for driving back to my house. So that encapsulates two actual deductions that I may have going for me to offset some of that income. So I always tell people, look at what it took for you to make a dollar. Let's do it at the bare bones minimum. What did it take for you to make a dollar in conjunction with that rental property? How did you spend your time? How many miles did you drive?   What were you buying on behalf of that rental property? What were you buying in order to maintain that property or service that property? For example, you know, renters in there, I managing it myself, got to have a cell phone right now that's cell form becomes a deduction against the rental income. Probably got to have internet if I'm going to list something. Well, now I get to write off my internet as part of the operations of that rental property. So I always say really take a hard look. What did it take for you to make a dollar? Okay, what did it take for you make a dollar and that's probably what you're going to be able to deduct on your tax return as part of that real estate operation.   Michael: That's great.   Emil: So all those things we just mentioned are those fully deductible or is it only 50% or some partial amount?   Joel: Ah, good question. Because of the new tax code limits as personally from our property tax perspective, right? So we can only deduct up to $10,000 worth of state or property tax on our personal tax return. But when it comes to my rental activity, I don't have those same kinds of limitations or I'm deducting property tax in full I'm, deducting my mortgage interest. I'm deducting, you know, the cost of the light bulb in full. Most of those aren't limited or don't have limitations as far as my deductability against the rental property.   Michael: So then Joel, is it accurate to say, let's say I made $10,000 in rental income in the year and I spent $6,000 in these various expenses that we just mentioned, the delta, there is four, 4,000. So that I ended up with $4,000. But is that what's taxed?   Joel: That is what's taxed. Yeah. It's your bottom line. Sometimes people get revenue. I an accountant right. So I kind of speak in the account language. So sometimes people think revenue, Oh, I'm texting revenue. This renter just paid me $24,000. Now I got to include $24,000 in my income tax return. And that's what I'm taxed on. But in actuality, what happens is you're taxed on the net. Okay. So I take maybe that $24,000 or in your case, the $10,000 I deduct the $6,000. I'm only taxed on the four grand, not on that top line number.   Michael: Great, great, super, super powerful. And so that kind of leads in actually to the next point that I want to talk about, which is this thing called depreciation, which I think most investors have heard about maybe not sure how to use or what it actually means. So can you give everyone an idea and a breakdown of what depreciation is and how we can use it to our advantage?   Joel: Sure. Now I will say If I own a rental, you must take depreciation expense. It's not something that you can leave off. I've seen tax returns that were given to me after the fact of rental operations for people that wanted me to review it. And then I look at depreciation and there's no depreciation. So know that you have to depreciate a rental property. And what that means is the IRS is giving us basically a useful life. If you will. They're saying that I go buy a rental property. It's useful. Life is 27 and a half years. So I'm going to define the cost of that property over that 27 and a half years. And I get a yearly expense of whatever that number ends up being that yearly expense is awesome because I'm able to deduct that. Let's take back your scenario of 16,000 worth of expenses, like with 4,000, right?   But those six thousands were hard, cash, outflow numbers or dollars. I still get to deduct my depreciation that gets that four grand. And now maybe I'm only taxed on $2,000. Right? So depreciation is a wonderful thing because it's also kind of a non-cash item. Okay. I bought the property, it has a loan on it, or maybe it doesn't. Maybe I was able to take the property down in full when I initially purchased it. But I still, even under that scenario, get to depreciate the property. So I'm not paying for the depreciation. It just happens automatically once I purchase it.   Michael: And so you mentioned that it's based on the purchase price. Is that right?   Joel: Based on the purchase price. That's correct. Yep.   Michael: So, In our $10,000 rental example, if we bought the property for a hundred thousand dollars, I did the math really quick, here,   Joel: Thank you.   Michael: I wasn't going to put you on the spot. And we say that residential property is 27 and a half years. Right? Commercial property is 39 years.   Joel: Correct.   Michael: And so if it's residential property, we divide the purchase price by 27 and a half. If it's commercial property, we divide the purchase price by 39 years. So let's take our a property. We bought for a hundred thousand dollars divided by 27 and a half years, we get $3,636 of depreciation every year,   Joel: Every year until that 27 and a half years has passed.   Michael: Got it. So going back to our $10,000 in revenue example, we had $10,000 in rental income, $6,000 in expenses. So it leaves us with $4,000 net gain. But now you're saying we get to deduct an additional 36 36 and meaning our taxable income is going to be like 40 bucks for the year?   Joel: Correct? Yep. Holy smokes. Yeah. So that's the power of appreciation. That's why it's so great. So when I buy a rental property, a great position to be in because of depreciation is to be what I call cash positive. Meaning that the revenue that I'm earning is greater than the cash outflow for any expenses that I have. But because I have this depreciation figure, right, I can actually have a loss on my tax return yet still be cash positive in the real world. I mean, that's the power of real estate. So when people say, Hey, I want to go into real estate. There are tons of tax benefits. Oftentimes that's what they're referring to. That I can create loss on my tax return and offset. Maybe my wages, my w two wages from my employer, even though I'm cash positive when it comes to the actual activity of the property.   Michael: So what another way of saying that be at the end of the year, I can end up with a thousand dollars in my pocket, but actually offset the income that I've earned from my W2 and get taxed at a lesser   Joel: That's correct. Yup. Yup. I see it all the time.   Emil: I love that you guys brought this up because this is why people tout the benefits of real estate, right? It's like everyone knows there's huge tax benefits and this is the biggest one where you can actually be making money all year cashflow positive, but because of depreciation, you're showing either no gain or a loss potentially offsetting your personal income, so.   Joel: That's correct. Yep. Maybe you have that scenario, loss, cash positive. The other thing that happens with real estate is our gains, right? So our appreciation just to the value of the property over years tends to go up. So when I sell it, I'm going to sell it at a higher dollar than when I purchased it for, and the entire time I'm owning it, I'm showing all these losses, but I'm still reaping these cash, positive cash, positive cash flow numbers that are coming through. Yeah. It's a real powerful game when it comes to real estate. That's why I'm in it, right?   Michael: That's right. That's right.   Joel: Yup.   Emil: Probably a little bit more tactical or advanced, but okay. Let's say I've owned the property for 27 and a half years. Right? I've taken full depreciation now I want to sell it. Right. One strategy we've talked about on prior episodes is using a 1031. So let's say 1031. So I have no capital gains on the sale. When I 1031 will my new property, will I be able to depreciate that one over 27 and a half years or what happens to this amount? I've depreciated all that time.   Joel: So it depends on basis, right? And typically what happens in 1031 exchanges, if you held it for that long and then 10 31 to a new property. I mean, that would be a pretty phenomenal thing, but, but what we do is oftentimes people are selling something to get into something that's larger or bigger or creates more revenue. Right? So it depends on my basis. So if I had something that was worth 300,000 and appreciated at all 27 and a half years, I 1031 exchange that and do something that's 500,000, I've already depreciated $300,000 with my basis. So now I grabbed that additional 200 grand and now I'm going to start depreciating that once I own that new property. Yeah. So I don't depreciate the same thing twice.   Emil: Okay.   Michael: Got it. Got it. And so speaking of depreciation, something that I'm doing actually for the first time, this year is a cost segregation study. Can you share with everybody Joel, what that is and how that might be used to help?   Joel: Yeah, that's really, I mean, that's really powerful because we're talking about depreciation, the benefits of appreciating a property now that 27 and a half years oftentimes can seem like a long time. And if you get into the commercial space with 39 years, can you imagine, you know, you're going to hold something through 39 years. That may seem like a really long time for most people. I think that it would be. So what a cost segregation does is it allows someone to go in and start piecemealing the actual individual cost of a property. Okay. So you may have cost for electrical wire, plumbing, drywall, roofing, wood, steel, nails, screws, light fixtures, you know, all of these different costs now. And realistically a life's not going to last 27 and a half years. So what a cost segregation does is it breaks down at home, into all its individual components and then assigns lives to those individual components.   So rather than depreciating a hundred percent of the cost over 27 and a half years, you may be able to have a bunch of costs that you're depreciating over five years or over 15 years, you're accelerating that depreciation. You're taking more of it upfront again to maximize that possible loss that you have. So when anyone buys a property, I say, look into cost-seg. I mean, it's a great way to accelerate those numbers, to get a whole lot of loss upfront because oftentimes people are looking at holding rental properties, you know, five years, 10 years, 15 years, then maybe they want to cash out for the appreciation or get into something else. But it allows during those holding periods to take advantage of as much loss as possible,   Emil: Are there professionals who just help you do? Like how do you even do that?   Joel: There are actually, yeah, there are professionals. You have to do it yourself. I mean, these things actually don't even cost that much. In fact, I had a client who, okay, it's all relative in terms of cost, but he purchased a $2 million commercial building, a $2 million. He did the cost segregation on that study. I think it only costs him about $7,000. And I was able to save him upwards of 60 grand on his tax return. Okay. So that's the power of that cost X study. They're not that expensive. And some peak times people say, Oh, I didn't buy a $2 million property. I just finding a residential home. It only costs me, you know, 350,000 or $400,000. If something still do the cost segregation study, you don't know how long you're going to hold the home. Right? Most people don't hold it 27 and a half years. So go in and do it. Accelerate your depreciation, take a bunch of those expenses up front while holding the property.   Emil: Michael, can I ask you, why did you decide, I know you have several properties. Why did you decide to do a cost segregation on this one specifically? Yeah. So it's a great question. I was doing a bunch of rehab, like a ton of ton of ton of rehab on both the properties that I'm doing, these cost segregations on. And it was just reading about tax strategies and things to do with properties that you've rehabbed. And this came up as one of the best things to do, because like Joel was mentioning so much of the rehab is the stuff, the baseboards flooring, light fixtures, plumbing, all that kind of stuff. So if I can get some of those benefits back for the cost that I had to spend to do the rehab, that's huge. And so Joel, did I understand you to say that you can do a cost segregation study, even if you haven't done any kind of rehab, you can just go buy a property.   Joel: Yeah. Even if you go buy a property, you can do a cost segregation on that property even without rehab. So I would always tell people know, look at that really, really give it a good look because it's probably going to be worth your while.   Michael: That's great. And so we mentioned about how that depreciation is captured and addressed in terms of basis. When we do a 10 31 and step up into something else, but let's say someone's owned a property for 10 years. They've taken depreciation on it the whole time. And then they're just looking at being done with real estate investing. They sell the property, they're going to pay the capital gains. Cause it's been some appreciation what happens to that depreciation? I can't just go away. Right.   Joel: It doesn't go away. So it's what we call it recaptures. So the appreciation that you take over time when you sell the property recaptures, or it comes back into income and I'm taxed on it and that's what ends up happening. Yeah. Okay. But it's a good trade off because as revenue is coming in and cash is coming in, I want those deductions. And when I sell my house for the gains that I'm going to make off of the appreciation of that house, that's when I have the cash and it's easier for me to afford then the tax on those numbers right on that recapture. So when I have the cash, go ahead and I'll take the recapture when I'm having that little bit of income come in. I want the expense to offset.   Michael: That makes sense. Yeah. I was just wondering, you know, what's the difference if you're taxed on it now or taxed on it later,   Joel: That's the cash flow projection. Right. So dealing with my cash flow, I want the cash flow as much as I can right now, you know, and then hit me with it later when I have a big abundance of a onetime cash coming in.   Michael: Got it makes total sense.   Emil: Okay. I want to shift gears here a little bit and talk about passive income versus pass through deduction. So can you walk us through that, Joel, and what the differences and why it's relevant for people?   Joel: Yeah. So excluding capital gains, when we're talking about income from operations, really, I'm just going to narrow it down to two. We call them active and passive. Hey, passive income deals with the rental side of real estate. And the reason people like it so much, it's because there's no self-employment tax associated with it. So in essence, it comes to us as cheaper income. So if I have a retail operation or something where I'm just going out and I'm selling widgets, you know, that I put together, that's all active income. So if I make a hundred grand, I have to pay self employment tax on that a hundred grand, on the flip side with passive income rental real estate. Again, let's say I make $20,000 off of that rental real estate. I don't pay any self employment tax, which is roughly about 15% on that income. And that's on top of income tax by the way. So it comes to me cheaper. It's cheaper income for me to make. So people love it as much passive income as you can get because it's cheaper income take it.   Michael: Interesting so if someone just to reiterate, if we got rid of the self employment thing, if I'm making a hundred grand at my w two job and somebody else is making a hundred grand in passive income after all of the expenses, right after depreciation, all that good stuff, that's their taxable income. And my W2 is a hundred grand. The person who has the investment income, the passive income is going to walk away with more dollars.   Joel: Correct.   Michael: If your head just didn't explode, go back and look that again. Joel: Yeah, that's exactly right. The person with the passive income will come out ahead every time.   Emil: I'm so glad you made that point because I think a lot of, when we're thinking about our ultimate goal of how much passive income do I need to be financially independent or whatever, it's actually less than what you'd need from your W2. That's correct. If you're making whatever a hundred grand, 150 grand, whatever it is, you don't need to make that much in passive income. It's actually less because you're taxed differently.   Joel: That's right. It's cheaper income. It goes a lot further   Emil: Love that.   Michael: Love, love that. Anything else we should know about passive income or passive deductions?   Joel: No, that's probably the biggest thing. Just the difference between active and passive. I mean, that's kind of the best thing to know about those two. Yeah.   Michael: Perfect. Okay. So Joel, now shift to talking about something that we've mentioned previously about capital gains instead of income taxes. And so can you tell us what is a capital gain and why is it important to know about and how has it taxed?   Joel: Yeah. So what a capital gain just means when I sell an asset, they have a different tax classification for rates of how I will be taxed on the game that I make from the sale of that asset and rental real estate, when I own a property or rental income during the time that I own that property, when I sell that property, the gain that I make off that sell is based on the capital gains rates. And typically it's much cheaper. Okay. Then ordinary income again, or active income again right now. I mean, there are some beautiful things when it comes to capital gains or capital gains rates. I mean, I can't remember the last time they were this low.   Did you know that you actually will pay 0% capital gain if your other income is under $80,000? Now there is a great tax strategy and planning to go through for timing. And when maybe it may make a whole lot of sense to sell a rental property above $80,000 to about $500,000. You're only taxed at 15%. Now this is all based on if I held the property over one year, okay, okay. After one year I get longterm capital gains rates above $500,000. My other income sources are above 500 grand. I'm going to pay 20%. So you have, so it depends on your other sources of income to how much capital gains, how much longterm capital gains you're actually going to pay. So if you're going to sell a property, really look at how can I mitigate some of those other sources of income to ensure that I get the lowest possible longterm capital gains rates, lots of tax planning, opportunities that go into that. And   Michael: Is this something new that you mentioned that, that this has changed recently?   Joel: Yeah. So it's something new with the whole, yeah. With the, with the new tax change that happened a couple of years ago. It's, you know, they're always kind of fussing about when it comes to capital gain rates and how they want to treat them. This is one of the aspects that came out of it. If you think about just comparing capital gain rates to ordinary income rates where I may, let's say I had, you know, a nice job, I made 150 grand. I sold the property, made another a hundred thousand, that a hundred thousand is only gonna be taxed at 15%. Whereas if I'm married, filing, jointly, my other income is going to be taxed at 22%. Right. Roughly. And so it just comes at a lower rate. So it's, I mean, capital gains rates. I mean, it's so beneficial from trying to put money back in your pocket, especially from a timing perspective nowadays.   Emil: So if I was retired and I have a property, so my other income is income outside of the rental property business.   Joel: Yeah. Okay. So if of your rental property, so if you look at a 1040 tax return, you look at all the various lines, dividends interest W2 wages, business income from partnerships or escorts, or however that may be. So you look at the total of that. That's how they measure it. So what is your income sources? And that's, what's going to dictate the capital gain rate that you're going to pay.   Emil: Got it. Okay. So if I've retired, I have a couple investment properties. I don't have any other sources of income. Right. It's just my rental properties. I go to sell that. I'm not paying, I'm making less than 80K, so I'm on…   Joel: Yeah, so if you're under, so if you're married, filing jointly, you're under 80 grand. Yeah. So it also makes for some interesting tax planning as well. If you have a few rental properties and you're going to go, you know, let's say I have four or five and I'm going to go sell one. I may go to my rent and say, guess what? December is free. It's on me. Congratulations. I don't want your money. Right. Just cause I want to stay standard that 80 grand. So that's why I say there's all kinds of tax planning opportunities to do, especially timing wise when it comes to selling a rental property. So I'd sit down with a CPA, go through it, go through your scenario and then, you know, make some decisions.   Emil: Interesting.   Michael: That is awesome.   Emil: Yeah.   Michael: Is there a good time or if you know, Joel, you know, if I want to utilize your services. When would it be the ideal time to start planning strategically for their taxes, yesterday?   Joel: Yeah. Yesterday and today. Because if you come to me, if you're coming to me now say, Hey, what can I do for last year? I'm going to say, well, you kind of handcuffed me. There's not a whole lot I can do for you last year because we're all cash based taxpayers. So when we report our kind of activity for the year to the IRS and to the state, it's based on January through December, right? So effectively, I need to make all my decisions and spending and do what I need to do between January and December. And when you come sit down with me to do your tax return or the compliance aspect of your operation, then we're just looking back and saying, okay, what did you do? How did things go? Right? That's the easy part. That's just basically reporting. It's nothing more than that. But the actual savings happens throughout the year. It happens throughout the year.   Michael: Okay, great.   Emil: You can see, obviously when you have multiple properties, it makes so much sense to work with a tax professional. Do you think, even if I'm just starting out, I have my first property, I've traditionally done my own taxes. Should I really enlist a CPA's help. So it's kind of a loaded question for them.   Joel: I'm going to self promote myself bias maybe slightly, but okay. But I'm going to give you a real example for this one. Okay. That it has nothing to do with taxes really. I mean really. So when I left Ernst and young, this would have been, you know, 20, some odd years ago. I decided because I'm an accountant and then cheat by nature, right? I mean, most accounts are cheap. You've met us, you've met, you've met my fellow people, right. We're cheap by nature. So I thought that I would save money if I built my own computers rather than going out and buying from Dell, maybe it was only saving a couple hundred bucks, but I thought, Oh, that's a great way that I can set. I can save some money. Then after building my own computers, I thought I was a smart little guy. And I would build my own server, which I did, which led me to building my own phone systems, which I did, which led me to try and to build my own website, which I failed miserably at.   But what would happen is during tax season, when everyone was working, we would do our most billing and our invoices words the highest throughout the year. And someone's computer broke. Guess who? The first person they called us, it was me. Hey, come fix my computer. So I leave my desk, go down there. I may spend two, three hours trying to fix their computer. But guess what I wasn't doing during those three hours during the highest billing rates that I have throughout the entire year, collecting money, right? I wasn't billing anyone. I wasn't doing anything that I could collect money. And at the end of the day, it ended up costing me way more to do it myself. Then it was to hire all that stuff out. And I like to call it team stacking, right? So you gotta look at what is your team? How am I stacking and putting all that together?   So now I have someone that deals with my phone system that deals with all my it, stuff that I need. I have a lawyer that deals with this I'm in real estate. So I have a general contractor that deals with all that stuff. So I don't have to do it so I can focus on what it is that makes me the most money, which is tax planning and tax compliance, doing tax returns. So I would suggest that as well, to someone even new and real estate team stack yourself, put people in place that will allow you to focus on what it is that you want to do and how you want to make money. Because I can promise you, you will never see as many tax things as I do. You'll never have those discussions or read all those wonderful IRS bulletins that even put me to sleep, right? So you wouldn't be doing all that stuff like I would be doing it. So team stack yourself, focus on what it is that make you money, put all those other things together and let them worry about that stuff.   Emil: I fully agree with you. I have a full time job. I'm trying to focus on the actual real estate investing and all these things have a family. I would much rather leave it to somebody who knows what they're doing. Who's living and breathing it all the time, rather than trying to learn it myself. And this is also one of those things where it's a high ROI thing to me, like a good tax professional is going to be able to figure out how to save you more money than you can go figure out into yourself. So I am with you and I have no bias.   Joel: Exactly. So the question should be when you go down and sit with someone isn't can I deduct this right? The question should be, how do I deduct this? Right? And then you leave to someone like me to go through and say, give you the house, okay. This is what you need to do. This is the support and documentation that you need to have. And this is how we can structure it, right. That's where tax planning comes in. And that's why it's so important. So even if you're just starting, I would make sure that I get connected with someone who understands the business that I'm doing, understands the real estate game and can start advising me upfront what to do and not making stumble over. Maybe some of those mistakes, someone who tries to do it on their own would find   Emil: Absolutely agree.   Michael: It's so good. Yeah. I concur with you both. Not nothing like that. That's great stuff. Okay. Last couple of things I want to touch on Joe, before we get into some high level questions, but can you talk really briefly? I know we had another episode of 1031 exchanges, but can you just touch on 1031 exchanges and opportunity zones?   Joel: Yeah. So I'll just touch on them really briefly 1031 exchange allows me to sell a property and re-invest all the gains I make off that property into a new one and not pay any tax. So essentially it improves my buying power, right? So I'd say I own something for 200 grand. I sold it for 300 grand. That a hundred thousand dollars worth of gain, I just invest the whole 300 grand into a new property. And it reduces the cost of that property effectively improving my purchase power. So it's a tax deferment strategy that can work really, really well for people.   Michael: Great.   Joel:  From an opportunity zone standpoint, though, that can get really complicated. So let me just, uh, let me just leave you with two points and maybe, and maybe people can remember this. First of all, opportunities zones are for those economic distress communities. I mean, often they are identified and you can find them. You can do searches online to find out where the opportunities zones are located. But what the IRS tries to do is give you some type of benefit. If you're willing to go into those opportunities zones and make investments into businesses, the issue that you need to be aware of is that first 50% of your income has to come from the opportunities zone for that company. Okay. 50% of it has, which means that if you're a manufacturer doesn't work really well. If you want to go into an opportunity zone, however, if you're a real estate investor works really, really well because I can go into an opportunity zone, buy a building and earn all my income, my rental income from inside the zone, which means that if I hold onto that property for 10 years, I get to sell it tax free. Yeah. So that's the benefit. I'm going to give you a benefit when you sell it right when I sell it, because it can be tax free, but there are lots of rules surrounding how I need to go about buying that property, holding that property, making income from that property. So opportunities don't get really complicated, but just sit down with someone who understands that they can walk you through it, but it can make a really, really great investment from a rental property standpoint.   Michael: Fantastic. One last question for you, Joel, is what are some common mistakes? You see new investors making?   Joel: Common mistakes?One is that they lacking in documentation for support of how they spend money. Because oftentimes when it comes to let's say audit, okay. If the IRS was going to look at someone's activity and they wanted to audit it, a lot of your ability to support the expenses that go into your tax return is based off of documentation. The other one I would say is most people don't include all their expenses. They look at them very, very narrowly, right? So if I own a rental property, there are some big ones that just stand out. Insurance, mortgage, interest, property taxes. I mean, those are some of the big ones that are just there. But if you go back to our conversation earlier, when I talked about going to home Depot, buy a light bulb going over, I'm looking at mileage, what did it take for me to actually earn a dollar? People never really take a step back and look, maybe go through your credit card statements, your bank statements, you know, even cash that you spent dealing with. If you have a general contractor or someone like that, like what was the money I spent with you? You really have to take a hard look at all of your expenses that went into the activity of that rental property, because that's where you're going to see your benefit. I mean, taxes. Oftentimes we call it death by a thousand paper cuts because it's all these little things that kind of, I miss miss, miss, miss. And when I accumulate all of them, it's a really big total, right? So really look at how you're spending your money and spending your time.   Pierre: I have a question.   Michael: Shoot Pierre Pierre: What would be sufficient documentation for driving Home Depot? Is taking a spreadsheet and counting your miles good?   Joel: Yeah. Spreadsheet could work. You can go onto Google maps. It's a beautiful thing. Get some directions and just print that out. There also lots and lots of apps that will help you identify your mileage, where you went that are really, really useful. Like my like Mile IQ or Tax Bot. It's almost like, you know, the right swipe, left swipe. So it tracks all your mileage. And you're just going through swiping personal, personal business business business. And it's really easy to do it creates the log for you. So I would always tell people to use technology to your advantage, especially when it comes to tracking what you spent and doing your documentation for anything that goes into your tax return. But this spreadsheet would work just as well.   Michael : Great. Okay. So now we'll move onto the section of the show that we call the quick fire questions. So these are going to be kind of yes or no either or type questions. You ready Joel?   Joel: Go ahead.   Michael: High property taxes or high income taxes?   Joel: High property taxes.   Michael: Because you can deduct them, right?   Joel: Because I can deduct them.   Michael: I love it. High rent growth or low vacancy.   Joel: Low vacancy, it's easier for me to manage my cash.   Michael: Nice consolidation or diversification.   Joel: I like diversification because I just think it's more fun.   Michael: Cashflow or appreciation?   Joel: I take cash flow. I want a dollar today.   Michael: Love it. Local or remote investing?   Joel: Ooh, that's a good one. I go where the deal is. So I don't care.   Michael: Right. Single family or multifamily?   Joel: Multifamily. Because basically in that instance, I've just adding zeros, but doing the same thing.   Michael: Yep. Turn-key or master project?   Joel: Oh, that's another good one. I'm going to say, well, nowadays based on the situation, I'm going to do turnkey, but under normal circumstances, I would like a master project just again, because I think it's more fun.   Michael: Okay. Great. Last two. Midnight oil or early bird worm?   Joel: Early bird worm, for sure.   Michael: Awesome. And then text message or email?   Joel: Text message. Yeah. My email inbox gets over flooded with emails.   Michael: Yep. I know how that goes. Awesome. Well Joel, thank you so much for taking the time and spending the time with us. This has been really great. What's the best way for someone to get in touch with you if they've got tax questions or tax needs?   Joel: Yeah. So if they want to get in touch with us, I would actually go to taxhive.com/roofstock. You can sign up. We'd love to talk to you for 30 minutes. We'll give you a free consultation. Maybe we can improve some of the stuff that you're doing. Give you some suggestions, whatever it is that you would like to do, but we're happy to help and give you any advice we can on an individual basis. I think it can be a little more relevant that way.   Michael: Fantastic. And again, the name of your company is?   Joel: So we're Tax Sentry, but if you go to taxhive.com, that's where you can find us.   Michael: Fantastic   Emil: H-i-v-e?   Joel: H-i-v-e.   Michael: Great. Emil, any final thoughts?   Emil: No. Joel, thank you so much. I actually, I learned a ton about real estate investing taxes myself. So thank you so much for coming on.   Joel: Sure. Love it. Happy to be here.   Michael: Always a pleasure looking forward to hopefully chatting again soon.   Joel: Thanks guys. Okay, everyone. Well, that's our show. Thanks so much for listening. Hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. I know both Emil and I got a ton of knowledge and golden nuggets out of it. So again, a big thank you to Joel and we can hopefully have him on again. Thanks so much for listening and happy investing.   Emil: Happy Investing