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Panel: Aimee Knight Charles Max Wood (DevChat TV) Christopher Ferdinandi (Boston) Joe Eames Special Guests: Justin Meyer In this episode, the panel talks with Justin Meyer who is a co-author of DoneJS, CanJS, jQueryPP, StealJS, and DocumentJS. Justin currently works for Bitovi and is their Director of R&D. He is also a fan of basketball and Michael Jackson. The panel and Justin talk about CanJS in-detail – check it out! Show Topics: 0:58 – We had you on Episode 202. 1:14 – Chuck: Can you tell everyone who you are? 1:20 – Justin tells us his background. 1:50 – Chuck. 1:58 – Justin. 2:06 – Chuck: Can you give us an introduction to what CanJS 4.0? 2:11 – Justin: It is a JavaScript framework and is similar to Vue. It adds a very model layer, and uses Real Time very well. 2:44 – Panelist. 2:49 – Justin. 2:55 – Panelist: What is the current... 3:09 – Justin: Compatibility is very important to us. A lot of the same tools are still available. It has over 80 different repositories. Justin continues to talk about the differences/similarities between the different versions. 4:55 – Panelist: Angular, React, and Vue are dominating, so I have 2 questions. 1.) Where is the core strength of JS and its user base? 2.) What is like to be the CanJS when everyone is talking about the other programs? 5:31 – Justin: We have dealt with this for the past 10 years. Emotionally it’s not great, I wished it was more popular, but our priority is keeping our user-based happy. We’ve had big companies use it. Justin answers the second question. 8:44 – Panelist: You mentioned two things. 9:22 – Aimee: I think everything has trade-offs. I would use something because it was the right tool for the job. I wouldn’t want to make something that was “cool.” I would want to make it super accessible in a network. 10:10 – Justin: That is a great marketing angle. We are trying to remove the worst parts of the program. 10:26 – Now I am intrigued. 10:32 – Justin: You have this mutable state and you aren’t sure. At least for CanJS I don’t see that occurring too often. 10:54 – Aimee. 10:58 – Justin: Deep inheritance is definitely a problem and it can create... 11:13 – Aimee. 11:19 – Justin: We have changed strategies a lot, and I think it’s helped CanJS grow; like 60% since January. We are doing a lot of user studies now. I run Meetups, etc. That being said inheritance schemes aren’t something that people will encounter. This is something that they won’t encounter months down the road. 13:00 – Aimee. 13:05 – Panelist: I would like to dig deeper into state-management. Everyone is doing Flux, talk about that with CanJS. 13:20 – Justin: Yeah. It depends on what kind of user you are talking to. When I talk to new users off the street (people who just graduated, etc.)... If you look at React’s statistics – more than 50% doesn’t use any state management. 16:15 – Panelist: I think it’s interesting that there are people that aren’t “oh my gosh...” 16:43 – Justin: The last coolest thing I’ve done is... 18:02 – Justin continues. 18:16 – Panelist: I kind of have this belief that we as a community turn to frameworks and tools too much. From your perspective when does it make sense to turn to a tool like this or better off working with native... 18:56 – It depends on how complex your app is and our ability to work through those problems. I think that’s a generic answer, but hopefully that helps. I don’t think you really can’t live without. 19:49 – Panelist: I think that’s fair. One thing that I found is that there are many things layered into state-management. Because you mentioned performance, which is something I care about, too. At what point does the extra tooling become too heavy for the user’s experience? Where do you draw the line? 21:11 – Justin: It depends. I don’t know what the parallel is – it’s like a richer developer problem. You have too many users where you can make those fine tuned adjustments. Do whatever is going to deliver the product first and then worry about performance later? I think our things are geared towards performance by default. 22:41 – Panelist: Playing devil’s advocate, though. But isn’t there some danger in kind of suggesting that you focus on performance WHEN it’s a business issue? Maybe there is there a lack of empathy among developers. I worry that advice is hurting us. 23:53 – Justin: No matter what you can build your homepage with Angular weird monstrosity, but then when you get to the point when people are using your product – you can just use native HTML, and native methods and build that one widget and as easy and fast as possible. 24:50 – Panelist: Dealing with complexity. Now we need to do things like bundlers, and such to deal with this issue. I feel like a crotchety old man yelling because it takes forever. 25:38 – Justin: I think it depends on where you are sitting. I think that comes down to the design. If your design has a lot of complex states, then... 26:37 – Panelist: Because you care about performance... 26:54 – Advertisement 27:53 – Justin: I don’t think that the run time of CanJS is going to be a critical performance path for anybody. Is there a responsibility? This is the oldest question. It’s like saying: where do you draw the line that you need to choose success/be elected to fight the battles if you really want to win. You need someone using your product or it doesn’t really matter. Start-ups use our product because they need to get something up and in. I am going to flip this back onto you guys. 30:48 – Panelist: I think that’s fair. 31:00 – Aimee: I have a question. You got into consultancy when do you recommend using CanJS or something else? 31:15 – Justin: I always suggest people using CanJS. 31:53 – Aimee: What do these people do when their contract is over? I have used an older version of Can, and... 32:20 – Justin: Are you on Gitter? Aimee: No, I am not. 32:25 – Justin: We do offer promote job posting to help them find somebody. We try our best to help people in any way we can. 33:05 – Aimee: That’s helpful. Another question. 33:28 – Justin: DoneJS is that. It uses the full kitchen sink. That’s what DoneJS is. 33:50 – Panelist: Let’s talk about CanJS in the mark-up. Do you think it’s better now or worse than 2012? Less space or more space? 34:13 – Justin: It’s probably worse. I think the methodology that we are using: focusing on our users. We get their feedback frequently. We are listening to our users, and I think we are being smarter. 35:16 – Panelist: Is the space getting more welcoming or less? 35:31 – It depends on what framework you are. It’s very hard to compete if you are the exact same thing as... The market is so dense and there are so many ideas, so it’s getting harder and harder. What helps people break-through? Is it the technology or the framework? 36:36 – Panelist: I appreciate the richness of the field, as it exists right now. There aren’t a few things SMELT and ELM 37:10 – Justin: Elm for sure. I don’t have a lot of experience with SMELT. 37:23 – Panelist continues the talk. 37:54 – Chuck. 38:00 – Justin: I think it spreads by word-of-mouth. I used to think it was “technology” or... all that really matters is “can you deliver” and the person have a good experience. Usability is the most important to me. We will see how this turns out. I will be either right or wrong. 39:18 – Panelist: Can we talk about the long-term future of Can JS? 39:28 – Justin: We are connecting to our user-base and making them happy. If I had it my way (which I don’t anymore) I think JSX is the best template language. We have been building integrations between JSX and... I am putting out proposals where most people don’t like them. Justin continues this conversation. 44:24 – Picks! 44:28 - Advertisement Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue Polyfill.io Dinero.js Vanilla JS Toolkit CanJS’ Website CanJS’ GitHub CanJS’ Twitter JSX JSX- NPM Justin Meyer’s GitHub Justin Meyer’s Twitter Past Episode with Justin Meyer Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Cache Fly Get a Coder Job Picks: Aimee Taking a walk for creativity https://ohshitgit.com Chris PolyFill.io Dinero.js https://vanillajstoolkit.com/ Joe Pitch Meeting Solo Charles Phoenix Framework The Queens Poisoner A View From The Top Justin The Killing of H2Push Browser Contributor Days JSJ Episode 326 with Tom Dale

Panel: Aimee Knight Charles Max Wood (DevChat TV) Christopher Ferdinandi (Boston) Joe Eames Special Guests: Justin Meyer In this episode, the panel talks with Justin Meyer who is a co-author of DoneJS, CanJS, jQueryPP, StealJS, and DocumentJS. Justin currently works for Bitovi and is their Director of R&D. He is also a fan of basketball and Michael Jackson. The panel and Justin talk about CanJS in-detail – check it out! Show Topics: 0:58 – We had you on Episode 202. 1:14 – Chuck: Can you tell everyone who you are? 1:20 – Justin tells us his background. 1:50 – Chuck. 1:58 – Justin. 2:06 – Chuck: Can you give us an introduction to what CanJS 4.0? 2:11 – Justin: It is a JavaScript framework and is similar to Vue. It adds a very model layer, and uses Real Time very well. 2:44 – Panelist. 2:49 – Justin. 2:55 – Panelist: What is the current... 3:09 – Justin: Compatibility is very important to us. A lot of the same tools are still available. It has over 80 different repositories. Justin continues to talk about the differences/similarities between the different versions. 4:55 – Panelist: Angular, React, and Vue are dominating, so I have 2 questions. 1.) Where is the core strength of JS and its user base? 2.) What is like to be the CanJS when everyone is talking about the other programs? 5:31 – Justin: We have dealt with this for the past 10 years. Emotionally it’s not great, I wished it was more popular, but our priority is keeping our user-based happy. We’ve had big companies use it. Justin answers the second question. 8:44 – Panelist: You mentioned two things. 9:22 – Aimee: I think everything has trade-offs. I would use something because it was the right tool for the job. I wouldn’t want to make something that was “cool.” I would want to make it super accessible in a network. 10:10 – Justin: That is a great marketing angle. We are trying to remove the worst parts of the program. 10:26 – Now I am intrigued. 10:32 – Justin: You have this mutable state and you aren’t sure. At least for CanJS I don’t see that occurring too often. 10:54 – Aimee. 10:58 – Justin: Deep inheritance is definitely a problem and it can create... 11:13 – Aimee. 11:19 – Justin: We have changed strategies a lot, and I think it’s helped CanJS grow; like 60% since January. We are doing a lot of user studies now. I run Meetups, etc. That being said inheritance schemes aren’t something that people will encounter. This is something that they won’t encounter months down the road. 13:00 – Aimee. 13:05 – Panelist: I would like to dig deeper into state-management. Everyone is doing Flux, talk about that with CanJS. 13:20 – Justin: Yeah. It depends on what kind of user you are talking to. When I talk to new users off the street (people who just graduated, etc.)... If you look at React’s statistics – more than 50% doesn’t use any state management. 16:15 – Panelist: I think it’s interesting that there are people that aren’t “oh my gosh...” 16:43 – Justin: The last coolest thing I’ve done is... 18:02 – Justin continues. 18:16 – Panelist: I kind of have this belief that we as a community turn to frameworks and tools too much. From your perspective when does it make sense to turn to a tool like this or better off working with native... 18:56 – It depends on how complex your app is and our ability to work through those problems. I think that’s a generic answer, but hopefully that helps. I don’t think you really can’t live without. 19:49 – Panelist: I think that’s fair. One thing that I found is that there are many things layered into state-management. Because you mentioned performance, which is something I care about, too. At what point does the extra tooling become too heavy for the user’s experience? Where do you draw the line? 21:11 – Justin: It depends. I don’t know what the parallel is – it’s like a richer developer problem. You have too many users where you can make those fine tuned adjustments. Do whatever is going to deliver the product first and then worry about performance later? I think our things are geared towards performance by default. 22:41 – Panelist: Playing devil’s advocate, though. But isn’t there some danger in kind of suggesting that you focus on performance WHEN it’s a business issue? Maybe there is there a lack of empathy among developers. I worry that advice is hurting us. 23:53 – Justin: No matter what you can build your homepage with Angular weird monstrosity, but then when you get to the point when people are using your product – you can just use native HTML, and native methods and build that one widget and as easy and fast as possible. 24:50 – Panelist: Dealing with complexity. Now we need to do things like bundlers, and such to deal with this issue. I feel like a crotchety old man yelling because it takes forever. 25:38 – Justin: I think it depends on where you are sitting. I think that comes down to the design. If your design has a lot of complex states, then... 26:37 – Panelist: Because you care about performance... 26:54 – Advertisement 27:53 – Justin: I don’t think that the run time of CanJS is going to be a critical performance path for anybody. Is there a responsibility? This is the oldest question. It’s like saying: where do you draw the line that you need to choose success/be elected to fight the battles if you really want to win. You need someone using your product or it doesn’t really matter. Start-ups use our product because they need to get something up and in. I am going to flip this back onto you guys. 30:48 – Panelist: I think that’s fair. 31:00 – Aimee: I have a question. You got into consultancy when do you recommend using CanJS or something else? 31:15 – Justin: I always suggest people using CanJS. 31:53 – Aimee: What do these people do when their contract is over? I have used an older version of Can, and... 32:20 – Justin: Are you on Gitter? Aimee: No, I am not. 32:25 – Justin: We do offer promote job posting to help them find somebody. We try our best to help people in any way we can. 33:05 – Aimee: That’s helpful. Another question. 33:28 – Justin: DoneJS is that. It uses the full kitchen sink. That’s what DoneJS is. 33:50 – Panelist: Let’s talk about CanJS in the mark-up. Do you think it’s better now or worse than 2012? Less space or more space? 34:13 – Justin: It’s probably worse. I think the methodology that we are using: focusing on our users. We get their feedback frequently. We are listening to our users, and I think we are being smarter. 35:16 – Panelist: Is the space getting more welcoming or less? 35:31 – It depends on what framework you are. It’s very hard to compete if you are the exact same thing as... The market is so dense and there are so many ideas, so it’s getting harder and harder. What helps people break-through? Is it the technology or the framework? 36:36 – Panelist: I appreciate the richness of the field, as it exists right now. There aren’t a few things SMELT and ELM 37:10 – Justin: Elm for sure. I don’t have a lot of experience with SMELT. 37:23 – Panelist continues the talk. 37:54 – Chuck. 38:00 – Justin: I think it spreads by word-of-mouth. I used to think it was “technology” or... all that really matters is “can you deliver” and the person have a good experience. Usability is the most important to me. We will see how this turns out. I will be either right or wrong. 39:18 – Panelist: Can we talk about the long-term future of Can JS? 39:28 – Justin: We are connecting to our user-base and making them happy. If I had it my way (which I don’t anymore) I think JSX is the best template language. We have been building integrations between JSX and... I am putting out proposals where most people don’t like them. Justin continues this conversation. 44:24 – Picks! 44:28 - Advertisement Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue Polyfill.io Dinero.js Vanilla JS Toolkit CanJS’ Website CanJS’ GitHub CanJS’ Twitter JSX JSX- NPM Justin Meyer’s GitHub Justin Meyer’s Twitter Past Episode with Justin Meyer Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Cache Fly Get a Coder Job Picks: Aimee Taking a walk for creativity https://ohshitgit.com Chris PolyFill.io Dinero.js https://vanillajstoolkit.com/ Joe Pitch Meeting Solo Charles Phoenix Framework The Queens Poisoner A View From The Top Justin The Killing of H2Push Browser Contributor Days JSJ Episode 326 with Tom Dale

Panel: Aimee Knight Charles Max Wood (DevChat TV) Christopher Ferdinandi (Boston) Joe Eames Special Guests: Justin Meyer In this episode, the panel talks with Justin Meyer who is a co-author of DoneJS, CanJS, jQueryPP, StealJS, and DocumentJS. Justin currently works for Bitovi and is their Director of R&D. He is also a fan of basketball and Michael Jackson. The panel and Justin talk about CanJS in-detail – check it out! Show Topics: 0:58 – We had you on Episode 202. 1:14 – Chuck: Can you tell everyone who you are? 1:20 – Justin tells us his background. 1:50 – Chuck. 1:58 – Justin. 2:06 – Chuck: Can you give us an introduction to what CanJS 4.0? 2:11 – Justin: It is a JavaScript framework and is similar to Vue. It adds a very model layer, and uses Real Time very well. 2:44 – Panelist. 2:49 – Justin. 2:55 – Panelist: What is the current... 3:09 – Justin: Compatibility is very important to us. A lot of the same tools are still available. It has over 80 different repositories. Justin continues to talk about the differences/similarities between the different versions. 4:55 – Panelist: Angular, React, and Vue are dominating, so I have 2 questions. 1.) Where is the core strength of JS and its user base? 2.) What is like to be the CanJS when everyone is talking about the other programs? 5:31 – Justin: We have dealt with this for the past 10 years. Emotionally it’s not great, I wished it was more popular, but our priority is keeping our user-based happy. We’ve had big companies use it. Justin answers the second question. 8:44 – Panelist: You mentioned two things. 9:22 – Aimee: I think everything has trade-offs. I would use something because it was the right tool for the job. I wouldn’t want to make something that was “cool.” I would want to make it super accessible in a network. 10:10 – Justin: That is a great marketing angle. We are trying to remove the worst parts of the program. 10:26 – Now I am intrigued. 10:32 – Justin: You have this mutable state and you aren’t sure. At least for CanJS I don’t see that occurring too often. 10:54 – Aimee. 10:58 – Justin: Deep inheritance is definitely a problem and it can create... 11:13 – Aimee. 11:19 – Justin: We have changed strategies a lot, and I think it’s helped CanJS grow; like 60% since January. We are doing a lot of user studies now. I run Meetups, etc. That being said inheritance schemes aren’t something that people will encounter. This is something that they won’t encounter months down the road. 13:00 – Aimee. 13:05 – Panelist: I would like to dig deeper into state-management. Everyone is doing Flux, talk about that with CanJS. 13:20 – Justin: Yeah. It depends on what kind of user you are talking to. When I talk to new users off the street (people who just graduated, etc.)... If you look at React’s statistics – more than 50% doesn’t use any state management. 16:15 – Panelist: I think it’s interesting that there are people that aren’t “oh my gosh...” 16:43 – Justin: The last coolest thing I’ve done is... 18:02 – Justin continues. 18:16 – Panelist: I kind of have this belief that we as a community turn to frameworks and tools too much. From your perspective when does it make sense to turn to a tool like this or better off working with native... 18:56 – It depends on how complex your app is and our ability to work through those problems. I think that’s a generic answer, but hopefully that helps. I don’t think you really can’t live without. 19:49 – Panelist: I think that’s fair. One thing that I found is that there are many things layered into state-management. Because you mentioned performance, which is something I care about, too. At what point does the extra tooling become too heavy for the user’s experience? Where do you draw the line? 21:11 – Justin: It depends. I don’t know what the parallel is – it’s like a richer developer problem. You have too many users where you can make those fine tuned adjustments. Do whatever is going to deliver the product first and then worry about performance later? I think our things are geared towards performance by default. 22:41 – Panelist: Playing devil’s advocate, though. But isn’t there some danger in kind of suggesting that you focus on performance WHEN it’s a business issue? Maybe there is there a lack of empathy among developers. I worry that advice is hurting us. 23:53 – Justin: No matter what you can build your homepage with Angular weird monstrosity, but then when you get to the point when people are using your product – you can just use native HTML, and native methods and build that one widget and as easy and fast as possible. 24:50 – Panelist: Dealing with complexity. Now we need to do things like bundlers, and such to deal with this issue. I feel like a crotchety old man yelling because it takes forever. 25:38 – Justin: I think it depends on where you are sitting. I think that comes down to the design. If your design has a lot of complex states, then... 26:37 – Panelist: Because you care about performance... 26:54 – Advertisement 27:53 – Justin: I don’t think that the run time of CanJS is going to be a critical performance path for anybody. Is there a responsibility? This is the oldest question. It’s like saying: where do you draw the line that you need to choose success/be elected to fight the battles if you really want to win. You need someone using your product or it doesn’t really matter. Start-ups use our product because they need to get something up and in. I am going to flip this back onto you guys. 30:48 – Panelist: I think that’s fair. 31:00 – Aimee: I have a question. You got into consultancy when do you recommend using CanJS or something else? 31:15 – Justin: I always suggest people using CanJS. 31:53 – Aimee: What do these people do when their contract is over? I have used an older version of Can, and... 32:20 – Justin: Are you on Gitter? Aimee: No, I am not. 32:25 – Justin: We do offer promote job posting to help them find somebody. We try our best to help people in any way we can. 33:05 – Aimee: That’s helpful. Another question. 33:28 – Justin: DoneJS is that. It uses the full kitchen sink. That’s what DoneJS is. 33:50 – Panelist: Let’s talk about CanJS in the mark-up. Do you think it’s better now or worse than 2012? Less space or more space? 34:13 – Justin: It’s probably worse. I think the methodology that we are using: focusing on our users. We get their feedback frequently. We are listening to our users, and I think we are being smarter. 35:16 – Panelist: Is the space getting more welcoming or less? 35:31 – It depends on what framework you are. It’s very hard to compete if you are the exact same thing as... The market is so dense and there are so many ideas, so it’s getting harder and harder. What helps people break-through? Is it the technology or the framework? 36:36 – Panelist: I appreciate the richness of the field, as it exists right now. There aren’t a few things SMELT and ELM 37:10 – Justin: Elm for sure. I don’t have a lot of experience with SMELT. 37:23 – Panelist continues the talk. 37:54 – Chuck. 38:00 – Justin: I think it spreads by word-of-mouth. I used to think it was “technology” or... all that really matters is “can you deliver” and the person have a good experience. Usability is the most important to me. We will see how this turns out. I will be either right or wrong. 39:18 – Panelist: Can we talk about the long-term future of Can JS? 39:28 – Justin: We are connecting to our user-base and making them happy. If I had it my way (which I don’t anymore) I think JSX is the best template language. We have been building integrations between JSX and... I am putting out proposals where most people don’t like them. Justin continues this conversation. 44:24 – Picks! 44:28 - Advertisement Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue Polyfill.io Dinero.js Vanilla JS Toolkit CanJS’ Website CanJS’ GitHub CanJS’ Twitter JSX JSX- NPM Justin Meyer’s GitHub Justin Meyer’s Twitter Past Episode with Justin Meyer Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Cache Fly Get a Coder Job Picks: Aimee Taking a walk for creativity https://ohshitgit.com Chris PolyFill.io Dinero.js https://vanillajstoolkit.com/ Joe Pitch Meeting Solo Charles Phoenix Framework The Queens Poisoner A View From The Top Justin The Killing of H2Push Browser Contributor Days JSJ Episode 326 with Tom Dale

Panel: Charles Max Wood Dave Kimura Eric Berry Special Guests: Saverio Miroddi In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panel talks to Saverio Miroddi who is an engineer among other things. Saverio has written articles, and a link to two of his articles is found below. The panel and Saverio talk about Ruby, Ruby Motion, Shoes, Hackety Hack, and much more! Check out the episode! Show Topics: 2:05 – Chuck asks a question. 2:42 – Chuck: What do you recommend for the listeners? 2:49 – Saverio: At the time I recommended an underdog. Now, making a recommendation is kind of hard. It depends on what they need. It’s fascinating in a way, because web development is not straightforward. Through the choice the subject is so wide. 3:58 – Panelist: Building desktop applications the very last thin I think: I should build this in Ruby. It sounds like I am not the only person. Why would people want to build desktop apps in Ruby versus another program? 4:38 – Chuck: I was thinking the same thing. 4:59 – Saverio: Personally, I like consistency. When Ruby came out it’s meant to be very easy. It should be easy to hack a certain tool. It depends on a case basis. 6:15 – Panelist: How does Ruby shine in this respect? 6:19 – Saverio: It’s hard to say. It is a compromise with everything. That’s the case – if it is meant to be simple, keep it simple. When I wrote my app I was looking for consistency. Ruby is far from ideal and it’s compromising the project. 8:02 – Panelist: Tell us how you use it? Tell us your cases. 8:17 – Saverio dives into this topic. 9:05 – Panelist: I hate web applications online – I want it on my desktop. But it’s funny; I am the opposite when I make it. I really like the idea of Ruby being expanded beyond web application. Panelist continues to talk about what/where/how Ruby is used or not used. 10:30 – Chuck: I like the idea of expanding to other areas, as well. Do you think there is enough momentum to get it to a new place? 11:09 – Saverio answers this question. Saverio: To be honest, this might just be a niche. It’s being developed at a slow pace. I know a few things use Ruby, and they just want to use a few small tools, and a few frameworks. 12:38 – Panelist talks about Ruby and how it can be good for kids and beginners because of the visual component/feedback. 13:49 – Saverio: I agree. 13:59 – Chuck: I asked earlier, what would you recommend to kids to get started? 14:20 – Saverio answers the question. 16:02 – Panelist: I think I have a compromise, what about a web application that loads like a regular web page, but also has offline functionality? If you go offline it can load and sometimes work. Now you have a native application. 16:47 – Chuck adds in a comment. 16:53 – Advertisement 17:31 – Saverio: That would be complex, right? 17:44 – Chuck: They were headed towards desktop but never got there. 17:55 – Panelist: There is Ruby Motion. 18:41 – Chuck: We are going to have a special guest back to talk about doing Ruby Motion on the Nintendo Switch. I think it will take a lot to compile to get to the new system. 19:07 – What is your experience with building Opal? 19:17 – Saverio: I excluded those, actually. 19:50 – Panelist: Let’s talk about data and storing data? 20:04 – Saverio: Definitely. Saverio dives into this topic... 20:28 – Chuck: Do you use Active Record? 20:32 – Saverio: No. 21:00 – Saverio: I like simplistic solutions. 21:19 – Chuck: That sounds like it wouldn’t be completely foreign for people who have done web development. If we are more web active what will throw us off? Just in general. Your visual is different than the web. It’s different between a desktop and a web app. 22:21 – Panelist: If you are building in Ruby it can be locked down to a single thread. 22:37 – Saverio adds his thoughts. 22:59 – Panelist: Any open source projects that are gooey based application? 23:25 – Saverio: I am not aware. There are applications out there that are getting traction, though. 23:50 – Chuck asks Saverio a question. 24:01 – Saverio talks about Ruby 25:12 – Saverio is deciding on whether or not to transition to another language or not. 26:36 – Chuck: Things that are built with Shoes...Hackety Hack? 26:55 – Saverio: It is hard to write in Shoes. It’s fun for the beginner. 27:34 – Chuck: Anything else? 27:41 – Panelist: This has to do with the Gooey, and it’s Native Fire. 29:05 – Chuck chimes in. 29:26 – Panelist continues talking about this topic. 30:48 – Panelist: To make it beyond a toy, there needs to be more community support and more examples. I have been in Ruby for a while, but building applications in React and Electron is not that simple as in Ruby. I hope to see more support in open-source projects, and to take it to the next level. This is a story yet to be told. 31:52 – Panelist: My concern is it always looks like a high school project. 32:15 – Chuck: Yeah, doesn’t look completely polished. 32:19 – Saverio: Yes, when you go to a Ruby talk then... 32:50 – Chuck: Anything else? 33:04 – Saverio: I have nothing else to add. 33:10 – Advertisement 33:47 – Picks! Links: Get a Coder Job Course Ruby Shoes Saverio Miroddi’s GitHub Saverio Miroddi’s article, “Using scripts in any language for...” Saverio Miroddi’s article, “An overview of Desktop Ruby GUI Development in 2018” RhoMobile Ruby Motion Ruby Gems Hackety Hack NPM – Nativefier Sponsors: Sentry Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job Course Picks: Charles Books – I have been devouring stuff on Audible. Personal growth tape – The Queen’s Poisoner by Wheeler A View from the Top by Zig Ziglar Code Badges Dave Command strips – 3M NPM – Nativefier Eric 2 courses, plus a 3rd! How to write an open source How to Contribute to an Open Source Project on GitHub The beginners guide to React Free courses on Egghead Saverio Movie: The Founder

Panel: Alyssa Nicholl Joe Eames John Papa Ward Bell Special Guests: Martin Jakubik In this episode, the Adventures in Angular panel talk with Martin Jakubik and he has been working with Angular for the last three years. He has one large and one small Angular application, which the panel talks about. Show Topics: 2:31 – Alyssa likes to be called... 2:40 – Alyssa: You have a large and small application – what makes it small? Is it the user-base? 2:56 – Martin: It is one module out of ten or twenty components. 2: 59 – Panelist: Only 1 Angular module? 3:47 – Panelist: Joe went off on how much he hates modules. I am sorry JP we had to throw that in that? 4:04 – Joe: I am an anti-modulist. 4:11 – Martin: Just one module. 4:21 – Panelist: When you are building an application with one module – start us from the beginning, what does it look like? 4:38 – Martin: It is actually quite special. It has to run in an iFrame, and all it does it allows the user to add into the experiment. 5:05 – Alyssa: Is it like a CMS? 5:10 – Martin: It is like Google Optimize. The application is quite simple and every component is in that one module. 5:36 – Panelist: How many do you have? 5:44 – Martin: There are less than 10 services and 20 components at most. 5:57 – Panelist: I feel personally, I feel like that I a decent size? 6:11 – Panelist: That makes perfect sense. If there is no routing or nothing... 6:40 – Panelist: Asks a question, and clarifies the question to Martin. 7:48 – Panelist: It is nice and clean. 7:55 – Panelist: I do, too. 8:08 – Alyssa: How new is it? 8:15 – Panelist: June/July? 8:32 – Martin: I am using the new style. 9:01 – Panelist: I am leery of using it. 9:13 - Panelist: I would like to clarify. When you mention you have 20 components... 9:40 - Panelist: Do it. 10:34 – Panelist: Webpack. Can you explain what that is and how you solved it? 10:57 – Martin: I don’t think I did anything special. I wanted to know how it works. I used webpack and used their configurations. Several months into the project then I... 11:40 – Panelist: Why did you decide not to use the CLI? This is like an Iron Man thing. 11:55 – Panelist: I think it’s a pain thing. 12:05 – Martin: I wanted to know how it works. 12:32 – Martin: I started from scratch, I can’t remember. 12:44 – Panelist: Whenever I use webpack it makes my head spin. 12:56 – Martin: The application was very simple. I was doing more blogging. 13:45 – Panelist: It is doing more configurations on the fly for you. It’s wonderful if it works and if it doesn’t work then I don’t know what you’d do. 14:17 – Martin: That’s why I did it, so I can appreciate all the magic. 14:30 – Panelist: How big is big? 14:36 – Martin: Enterprise level. 100 different components. 15:06 – Panelist chimes in. 15:13 – Panelist: That is complex. 15:28 – Panelist: let’s add more modules to add to the complexity... 15:55 – Alyssa: When you took your app to the CLI was that hard? 16:06 – Martin: That took me one whole day. The module is so simple that’s why. 16:32 – Panelist talks about this topic. 17:39 – Panelist asks a question. 17:53 – Panelist: Fixing any problem ... ever work on tooling help people if they have their stuff in the right file name? 18:18 – Martin: I used Cypress. 18:58 – Panelist: Under what situation would you recommend it to anyone? Do it your own webpack configuration? 19:23 – Martin: Only if... 19:51 – Alyssa: What if you wanted to add a watermark to each file, do you have to stop adding the CLI? 20:13 – Panelist: So am I...what are the boundaries, I don’t know what they are? I’m curious. 20:41 – Panelist: Are you asking, Alyssa, how you would customize it? 21:09 – Panelist: You won’t loose all the features that you get. You now elected out of that place where they had it; webpack configurations. 22:12 – Panelist: What happened to it ejecting? How do you get it out of there? 22:26 – Good question! I have – I like to play with scissors. 22:43 – Advertisement 23:32 – Panelist reads a message from the company. How do you get that voice? 24:10 – First you have to have a really deep sinus cold. 25:00 – Panelist: Do you live without eject? I really don’t care. What I care about...Scratch that! I want to know what kinds of things you can’t do with a CLI that would drive you to do your own application? What other things could you not do in webpack. 25:50 – Martin: I wanted to see how it works. 25:56 – Panelist: Now I use CLI and all it’s features except testing. I use Cypress completely separate than CLI. 26:46 – Panelist: I feel like it’s talking to the one person without a cellphone. 27:01 – Panelist: Wow! I had no concept that life could be like that! I thought you had to have a cellphone. 27:29  – Martin: What does anyone use the CLI for anyways? 27:44 – Martin: I use it for unit tests. 27:52 – Panelist: Another question. 28:30 – Alyssa: You write things out by hand because it’s easier?! 28:44 – Panelist: You copy, and paste and it’s less work. 29:06 – Panelist: It feels easier. 29:22 – Joe: No, I am serious. 29:48 – Joe: Yes, I am amazing. 30:30 – Martin talks about another topic. 30:48 – Alyssa: When you generate a component do you put it into a different file? 31:29 – Panel: We are all friends here and we aren’t shaming anyone here. We are joking here. 32:00 – Alyssa: It’s that he can write it from memory. 33:08 – Panelist: I have been using Vue lately. He also talks about Angular and mentions Sarah Drasner, too. 34:26 – Panelist: Not everyone has a memory like him, though. 35:32 – Panelist: The fourth version of Renderer. 36:28 – Panelist: We are not talking about Nirvana the band, here. 36:46 – Alyssa: It will be the new Renderer. It’s out for you to try. Check out Angular Air. He was trying out IB yourself right now. People are flipping out about it. I am excited to see how my Angular app runs differently now. Here is the code that was generated, here is the code that... I am not sure that there is a promise date. Any secrets heads-up on when it will come out? 38:22 – Panelist: The big question what does this mean for my existing code? Do I have to change my existing code? 38:48 – Alyssa: The Angular team is working so that there are minimal changes. I don’t have a good answer. NGGC. For third-party libraries you run it through and it... I don’t know what that means for the community. 39:49 – Panelist: My hope is that they... 40:03 – Alyssa: For your third-party... 40:18 – Panelist: Question: between your small and large pack? What architectural differences are there? 40:44 – Martin: I have a template edit. 41:03 – Panelist: Come to my... 41:32 – Panel talks about talks that Jon can do. 42:13 – Panelist: True story... The panel is having fun going back and forth with jokes. 43:03 – Panelist: This kind of stuff creeps into production code. That’s the great thing about copy and paste. 43:21 – Panelist: We had a rule, though, if it happens more than once let’s put into our build. 44:20 – It’s 3 hours if you have a CI process, if you don’t... 44:33 – Console.log 44:49 – Martin chimes in. 45:14 – Panelist: Let’s talk about an iFrame in your app? 45:27 – Martin: The point is to be able to do it with any... Make sure that it doesn’t collide. The CSS wasn’t separated. I had to put my application inside an iFrame. 46:27 – Panelist: Thanks for coming on for us, Martin. 46:37 – Picks! 46:44 - Advertisement Links: Martin Jakubik’s Medium How to Copy, Cut, Paste for Beginners by Melanie Pinola Art Joker Blog @AngularMine Cypress Vue Renderer Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job course Picks: Alyssa Question as my pick – About Angular 7...(47:52) True or False? Martin Thank you for having me today. Present your work more. I challenge you all to cook. Blog: Bratislava Angular Ward How to Copy, Cut, and Paste Joe Brian Holt – Eleven Tips to Scale Node.js NPM scripts – I relearned something “new” lately.

Panel: Alyssa Nicholl Joe Eames John Papa Ward Bell Special Guests: Martin Jakubik In this episode, the Adventures in Angular panel talk with Martin Jakubik and he has been working with Angular for the last three years. He has one large and one small Angular application, which the panel talks about. Show Topics: 2:31 – Alyssa likes to be called... 2:40 – Alyssa: You have a large and small application – what makes it small? Is it the user-base? 2:56 – Martin: It is one module out of ten or twenty components. 2: 59 – Panelist: Only 1 Angular module? 3:47 – Panelist: Joe went off on how much he hates modules. I am sorry JP we had to throw that in that? 4:04 – Joe: I am an anti-modulist. 4:11 – Martin: Just one module. 4:21 – Panelist: When you are building an application with one module – start us from the beginning, what does it look like? 4:38 – Martin: It is actually quite special. It has to run in an iFrame, and all it does it allows the user to add into the experiment. 5:05 – Alyssa: Is it like a CMS? 5:10 – Martin: It is like Google Optimize. The application is quite simple and every component is in that one module. 5:36 – Panelist: How many do you have? 5:44 – Martin: There are less than 10 services and 20 components at most. 5:57 – Panelist: I feel personally, I feel like that I a decent size? 6:11 – Panelist: That makes perfect sense. If there is no routing or nothing... 6:40 – Panelist: Asks a question, and clarifies the question to Martin. 7:48 – Panelist: It is nice and clean. 7:55 – Panelist: I do, too. 8:08 – Alyssa: How new is it? 8:15 – Panelist: June/July? 8:32 – Martin: I am using the new style. 9:01 – Panelist: I am leery of using it. 9:13 - Panelist: I would like to clarify. When you mention you have 20 components... 9:40 - Panelist: Do it. 10:34 – Panelist: Webpack. Can you explain what that is and how you solved it? 10:57 – Martin: I don’t think I did anything special. I wanted to know how it works. I used webpack and used their configurations. Several months into the project then I... 11:40 – Panelist: Why did you decide not to use the CLI? This is like an Iron Man thing. 11:55 – Panelist: I think it’s a pain thing. 12:05 – Martin: I wanted to know how it works. 12:32 – Martin: I started from scratch, I can’t remember. 12:44 – Panelist: Whenever I use webpack it makes my head spin. 12:56 – Martin: The application was very simple. I was doing more blogging. 13:45 – Panelist: It is doing more configurations on the fly for you. It’s wonderful if it works and if it doesn’t work then I don’t know what you’d do. 14:17 – Martin: That’s why I did it, so I can appreciate all the magic. 14:30 – Panelist: How big is big? 14:36 – Martin: Enterprise level. 100 different components. 15:06 – Panelist chimes in. 15:13 – Panelist: That is complex. 15:28 – Panelist: let’s add more modules to add to the complexity... 15:55 – Alyssa: When you took your app to the CLI was that hard? 16:06 – Martin: That took me one whole day. The module is so simple that’s why. 16:32 – Panelist talks about this topic. 17:39 – Panelist asks a question. 17:53 – Panelist: Fixing any problem ... ever work on tooling help people if they have their stuff in the right file name? 18:18 – Martin: I used Cypress. 18:58 – Panelist: Under what situation would you recommend it to anyone? Do it your own webpack configuration? 19:23 – Martin: Only if... 19:51 – Alyssa: What if you wanted to add a watermark to each file, do you have to stop adding the CLI? 20:13 – Panelist: So am I...what are the boundaries, I don’t know what they are? I’m curious. 20:41 – Panelist: Are you asking, Alyssa, how you would customize it? 21:09 – Panelist: You won’t loose all the features that you get. You now elected out of that place where they had it; webpack configurations. 22:12 – Panelist: What happened to it ejecting? How do you get it out of there? 22:26 – Good question! I have – I like to play with scissors. 22:43 – Advertisement 23:32 – Panelist reads a message from the company. How do you get that voice? 24:10 – First you have to have a really deep sinus cold. 25:00 – Panelist: Do you live without eject? I really don’t care. What I care about...Scratch that! I want to know what kinds of things you can’t do with a CLI that would drive you to do your own application? What other things could you not do in webpack. 25:50 – Martin: I wanted to see how it works. 25:56 – Panelist: Now I use CLI and all it’s features except testing. I use Cypress completely separate than CLI. 26:46 – Panelist: I feel like it’s talking to the one person without a cellphone. 27:01 – Panelist: Wow! I had no concept that life could be like that! I thought you had to have a cellphone. 27:29  – Martin: What does anyone use the CLI for anyways? 27:44 – Martin: I use it for unit tests. 27:52 – Panelist: Another question. 28:30 – Alyssa: You write things out by hand because it’s easier?! 28:44 – Panelist: You copy, and paste and it’s less work. 29:06 – Panelist: It feels easier. 29:22 – Joe: No, I am serious. 29:48 – Joe: Yes, I am amazing. 30:30 – Martin talks about another topic. 30:48 – Alyssa: When you generate a component do you put it into a different file? 31:29 – Panel: We are all friends here and we aren’t shaming anyone here. We are joking here. 32:00 – Alyssa: It’s that he can write it from memory. 33:08 – Panelist: I have been using Vue lately. He also talks about Angular and mentions Sarah Drasner, too. 34:26 – Panelist: Not everyone has a memory like him, though. 35:32 – Panelist: The fourth version of Renderer. 36:28 – Panelist: We are not talking about Nirvana the band, here. 36:46 – Alyssa: It will be the new Renderer. It’s out for you to try. Check out Angular Air. He was trying out IB yourself right now. People are flipping out about it. I am excited to see how my Angular app runs differently now. Here is the code that was generated, here is the code that... I am not sure that there is a promise date. Any secrets heads-up on when it will come out? 38:22 – Panelist: The big question what does this mean for my existing code? Do I have to change my existing code? 38:48 – Alyssa: The Angular team is working so that there are minimal changes. I don’t have a good answer. NGGC. For third-party libraries you run it through and it... I don’t know what that means for the community. 39:49 – Panelist: My hope is that they... 40:03 – Alyssa: For your third-party... 40:18 – Panelist: Question: between your small and large pack? What architectural differences are there? 40:44 – Martin: I have a template edit. 41:03 – Panelist: Come to my... 41:32 – Panel talks about talks that Jon can do. 42:13 – Panelist: True story... The panel is having fun going back and forth with jokes. 43:03 – Panelist: This kind of stuff creeps into production code. That’s the great thing about copy and paste. 43:21 – Panelist: We had a rule, though, if it happens more than once let’s put into our build. 44:20 – It’s 3 hours if you have a CI process, if you don’t... 44:33 – Console.log 44:49 – Martin chimes in. 45:14 – Panelist: Let’s talk about an iFrame in your app? 45:27 – Martin: The point is to be able to do it with any... Make sure that it doesn’t collide. The CSS wasn’t separated. I had to put my application inside an iFrame. 46:27 – Panelist: Thanks for coming on for us, Martin. 46:37 – Picks! 46:44 - Advertisement Links: Martin Jakubik’s Medium How to Copy, Cut, Paste for Beginners by Melanie Pinola Art Joker Blog @AngularMine Cypress Vue Renderer Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job course Picks: Alyssa Question as my pick – About Angular 7...(47:52) True or False? Martin Thank you for having me today. Present your work more. I challenge you all to cook. Blog: Bratislava Angular Ward How to Copy, Cut, and Paste Joe Brian Holt – Eleven Tips to Scale Node.js NPM scripts – I relearned something “new” lately.

Panel: Alyssa Nicholl Joe Eames John Papa Ward Bell Special Guests: Martin Jakubik In this episode, the Adventures in Angular panel talk with Martin Jakubik and he has been working with Angular for the last three years. He has one large and one small Angular application, which the panel talks about. Show Topics: 2:31 – Alyssa likes to be called... 2:40 – Alyssa: You have a large and small application – what makes it small? Is it the user-base? 2:56 – Martin: It is one module out of ten or twenty components. 2: 59 – Panelist: Only 1 Angular module? 3:47 – Panelist: Joe went off on how much he hates modules. I am sorry JP we had to throw that in that? 4:04 – Joe: I am an anti-modulist. 4:11 – Martin: Just one module. 4:21 – Panelist: When you are building an application with one module – start us from the beginning, what does it look like? 4:38 – Martin: It is actually quite special. It has to run in an iFrame, and all it does it allows the user to add into the experiment. 5:05 – Alyssa: Is it like a CMS? 5:10 – Martin: It is like Google Optimize. The application is quite simple and every component is in that one module. 5:36 – Panelist: How many do you have? 5:44 – Martin: There are less than 10 services and 20 components at most. 5:57 – Panelist: I feel personally, I feel like that I a decent size? 6:11 – Panelist: That makes perfect sense. If there is no routing or nothing... 6:40 – Panelist: Asks a question, and clarifies the question to Martin. 7:48 – Panelist: It is nice and clean. 7:55 – Panelist: I do, too. 8:08 – Alyssa: How new is it? 8:15 – Panelist: June/July? 8:32 – Martin: I am using the new style. 9:01 – Panelist: I am leery of using it. 9:13 - Panelist: I would like to clarify. When you mention you have 20 components... 9:40 - Panelist: Do it. 10:34 – Panelist: Webpack. Can you explain what that is and how you solved it? 10:57 – Martin: I don’t think I did anything special. I wanted to know how it works. I used webpack and used their configurations. Several months into the project then I... 11:40 – Panelist: Why did you decide not to use the CLI? This is like an Iron Man thing. 11:55 – Panelist: I think it’s a pain thing. 12:05 – Martin: I wanted to know how it works. 12:32 – Martin: I started from scratch, I can’t remember. 12:44 – Panelist: Whenever I use webpack it makes my head spin. 12:56 – Martin: The application was very simple. I was doing more blogging. 13:45 – Panelist: It is doing more configurations on the fly for you. It’s wonderful if it works and if it doesn’t work then I don’t know what you’d do. 14:17 – Martin: That’s why I did it, so I can appreciate all the magic. 14:30 – Panelist: How big is big? 14:36 – Martin: Enterprise level. 100 different components. 15:06 – Panelist chimes in. 15:13 – Panelist: That is complex. 15:28 – Panelist: let’s add more modules to add to the complexity... 15:55 – Alyssa: When you took your app to the CLI was that hard? 16:06 – Martin: That took me one whole day. The module is so simple that’s why. 16:32 – Panelist talks about this topic. 17:39 – Panelist asks a question. 17:53 – Panelist: Fixing any problem ... ever work on tooling help people if they have their stuff in the right file name? 18:18 – Martin: I used Cypress. 18:58 – Panelist: Under what situation would you recommend it to anyone? Do it your own webpack configuration? 19:23 – Martin: Only if... 19:51 – Alyssa: What if you wanted to add a watermark to each file, do you have to stop adding the CLI? 20:13 – Panelist: So am I...what are the boundaries, I don’t know what they are? I’m curious. 20:41 – Panelist: Are you asking, Alyssa, how you would customize it? 21:09 – Panelist: You won’t loose all the features that you get. You now elected out of that place where they had it; webpack configurations. 22:12 – Panelist: What happened to it ejecting? How do you get it out of there? 22:26 – Good question! I have – I like to play with scissors. 22:43 – Advertisement 23:32 – Panelist reads a message from the company. How do you get that voice? 24:10 – First you have to have a really deep sinus cold. 25:00 – Panelist: Do you live without eject? I really don’t care. What I care about...Scratch that! I want to know what kinds of things you can’t do with a CLI that would drive you to do your own application? What other things could you not do in webpack. 25:50 – Martin: I wanted to see how it works. 25:56 – Panelist: Now I use CLI and all it’s features except testing. I use Cypress completely separate than CLI. 26:46 – Panelist: I feel like it’s talking to the one person without a cellphone. 27:01 – Panelist: Wow! I had no concept that life could be like that! I thought you had to have a cellphone. 27:29  – Martin: What does anyone use the CLI for anyways? 27:44 – Martin: I use it for unit tests. 27:52 – Panelist: Another question. 28:30 – Alyssa: You write things out by hand because it’s easier?! 28:44 – Panelist: You copy, and paste and it’s less work. 29:06 – Panelist: It feels easier. 29:22 – Joe: No, I am serious. 29:48 – Joe: Yes, I am amazing. 30:30 – Martin talks about another topic. 30:48 – Alyssa: When you generate a component do you put it into a different file? 31:29 – Panel: We are all friends here and we aren’t shaming anyone here. We are joking here. 32:00 – Alyssa: It’s that he can write it from memory. 33:08 – Panelist: I have been using Vue lately. He also talks about Angular and mentions Sarah Drasner, too. 34:26 – Panelist: Not everyone has a memory like him, though. 35:32 – Panelist: The fourth version of Renderer. 36:28 – Panelist: We are not talking about Nirvana the band, here. 36:46 – Alyssa: It will be the new Renderer. It’s out for you to try. Check out Angular Air. He was trying out IB yourself right now. People are flipping out about it. I am excited to see how my Angular app runs differently now. Here is the code that was generated, here is the code that... I am not sure that there is a promise date. Any secrets heads-up on when it will come out? 38:22 – Panelist: The big question what does this mean for my existing code? Do I have to change my existing code? 38:48 – Alyssa: The Angular team is working so that there are minimal changes. I don’t have a good answer. NGGC. For third-party libraries you run it through and it... I don’t know what that means for the community. 39:49 – Panelist: My hope is that they... 40:03 – Alyssa: For your third-party... 40:18 – Panelist: Question: between your small and large pack? What architectural differences are there? 40:44 – Martin: I have a template edit. 41:03 – Panelist: Come to my... 41:32 – Panel talks about talks that Jon can do. 42:13 – Panelist: True story... The panel is having fun going back and forth with jokes. 43:03 – Panelist: This kind of stuff creeps into production code. That’s the great thing about copy and paste. 43:21 – Panelist: We had a rule, though, if it happens more than once let’s put into our build. 44:20 – It’s 3 hours if you have a CI process, if you don’t... 44:33 – Console.log 44:49 – Martin chimes in. 45:14 – Panelist: Let’s talk about an iFrame in your app? 45:27 – Martin: The point is to be able to do it with any... Make sure that it doesn’t collide. The CSS wasn’t separated. I had to put my application inside an iFrame. 46:27 – Panelist: Thanks for coming on for us, Martin. 46:37 – Picks! 46:44 - Advertisement Links: Martin Jakubik’s Medium How to Copy, Cut, Paste for Beginners by Melanie Pinola Art Joker Blog @AngularMine Cypress Vue Renderer Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job course Picks: Alyssa Question as my pick – About Angular 7...(47:52) True or False? Martin Thank you for having me today. Present your work more. I challenge you all to cook. Blog: Bratislava Angular Ward How to Copy, Cut, and Paste Joe Brian Holt – Eleven Tips to Scale Node.js NPM scripts – I relearned something “new” lately.

Panel: Charles Max Wood Dave Kimura Eric Berry Special Guests: Saverio Miroddi In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panel talks to Saverio Miroddi who is an engineer among other things. Saverio has written articles, and a link to two of his articles is found below. The panel and Saverio talk about Ruby, Ruby Motion, Shoes, Hackety Hack, and much more! Check out the episode! Show Topics: 2:05 – Chuck asks a question. 2:42 – Chuck: What do you recommend for the listeners? 2:49 – Saverio: At the time I recommended an underdog. Now, making a recommendation is kind of hard. It depends on what they need. It’s fascinating in a way, because web development is not straightforward. Through the choice the subject is so wide. 3:58 – Panelist: Building desktop applications the very last thin I think: I should build this in Ruby. It sounds like I am not the only person. Why would people want to build desktop apps in Ruby versus another program? 4:38 – Chuck: I was thinking the same thing. 4:59 – Saverio: Personally, I like consistency. When Ruby came out it’s meant to be very easy. It should be easy to hack a certain tool. It depends on a case basis. 6:15 – Panelist: How does Ruby shine in this respect? 6:19 – Saverio: It’s hard to say. It is a compromise with everything. That’s the case – if it is meant to be simple, keep it simple. When I wrote my app I was looking for consistency. Ruby is far from ideal and it’s compromising the project. 8:02 – Panelist: Tell us how you use it? Tell us your cases. 8:17 – Saverio dives into this topic. 9:05 – Panelist: I hate web applications online – I want it on my desktop. But it’s funny; I am the opposite when I make it. I really like the idea of Ruby being expanded beyond web application. Panelist continues to talk about what/where/how Ruby is used or not used. 10:30 – Chuck: I like the idea of expanding to other areas, as well. Do you think there is enough momentum to get it to a new place? 11:09 – Saverio answers this question. Saverio: To be honest, this might just be a niche. It’s being developed at a slow pace. I know a few things use Ruby, and they just want to use a few small tools, and a few frameworks. 12:38 – Panelist talks about Ruby and how it can be good for kids and beginners because of the visual component/feedback. 13:49 – Saverio: I agree. 13:59 – Chuck: I asked earlier, what would you recommend to kids to get started? 14:20 – Saverio answers the question. 16:02 – Panelist: I think I have a compromise, what about a web application that loads like a regular web page, but also has offline functionality? If you go offline it can load and sometimes work. Now you have a native application. 16:47 – Chuck adds in a comment. 16:53 – Advertisement 17:31 – Saverio: That would be complex, right? 17:44 – Chuck: They were headed towards desktop but never got there. 17:55 – Panelist: There is Ruby Motion. 18:41 – Chuck: We are going to have a special guest back to talk about doing Ruby Motion on the Nintendo Switch. I think it will take a lot to compile to get to the new system. 19:07 – What is your experience with building Opal? 19:17 – Saverio: I excluded those, actually. 19:50 – Panelist: Let’s talk about data and storing data? 20:04 – Saverio: Definitely. Saverio dives into this topic... 20:28 – Chuck: Do you use Active Record? 20:32 – Saverio: No. 21:00 – Saverio: I like simplistic solutions. 21:19 – Chuck: That sounds like it wouldn’t be completely foreign for people who have done web development. If we are more web active what will throw us off? Just in general. Your visual is different than the web. It’s different between a desktop and a web app. 22:21 – Panelist: If you are building in Ruby it can be locked down to a single thread. 22:37 – Saverio adds his thoughts. 22:59 – Panelist: Any open source projects that are gooey based application? 23:25 – Saverio: I am not aware. There are applications out there that are getting traction, though. 23:50 – Chuck asks Saverio a question. 24:01 – Saverio talks about Ruby 25:12 – Saverio is deciding on whether or not to transition to another language or not. 26:36 – Chuck: Things that are built with Shoes...Hackety Hack? 26:55 – Saverio: It is hard to write in Shoes. It’s fun for the beginner. 27:34 – Chuck: Anything else? 27:41 – Panelist: This has to do with the Gooey, and it’s Native Fire. 29:05 – Chuck chimes in. 29:26 – Panelist continues talking about this topic. 30:48 – Panelist: To make it beyond a toy, there needs to be more community support and more examples. I have been in Ruby for a while, but building applications in React and Electron is not that simple as in Ruby. I hope to see more support in open-source projects, and to take it to the next level. This is a story yet to be told. 31:52 – Panelist: My concern is it always looks like a high school project. 32:15 – Chuck: Yeah, doesn’t look completely polished. 32:19 – Saverio: Yes, when you go to a Ruby talk then... 32:50 – Chuck: Anything else? 33:04 – Saverio: I have nothing else to add. 33:10 – Advertisement 33:47 – Picks! Links: Get a Coder Job Course Ruby Shoes Saverio Miroddi’s GitHub Saverio Miroddi’s article, “Using scripts in any language for...” Saverio Miroddi’s article, “An overview of Desktop Ruby GUI Development in 2018” RhoMobile Ruby Motion Ruby Gems Hackety Hack NPM – Nativefier Sponsors: Sentry Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job Course Picks: Charles Books – I have been devouring stuff on Audible. Personal growth tape – The Queen’s Poisoner by Wheeler A View from the Top by Zig Ziglar Code Badges Dave Command strips – 3M NPM – Nativefier Eric 2 courses, plus a 3rd! How to write an open source How to Contribute to an Open Source Project on GitHub The beginners guide to React Free courses on Egghead Saverio Movie: The Founder

Panel: Charles Max Wood Dave Kimura Eric Berry Special Guests: Saverio Miroddi In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panel talks to Saverio Miroddi who is an engineer among other things. Saverio has written articles, and a link to two of his articles is found below. The panel and Saverio talk about Ruby, Ruby Motion, Shoes, Hackety Hack, and much more! Check out the episode! Show Topics: 2:05 – Chuck asks a question. 2:42 – Chuck: What do you recommend for the listeners? 2:49 – Saverio: At the time I recommended an underdog. Now, making a recommendation is kind of hard. It depends on what they need. It’s fascinating in a way, because web development is not straightforward. Through the choice the subject is so wide. 3:58 – Panelist: Building desktop applications the very last thin I think: I should build this in Ruby. It sounds like I am not the only person. Why would people want to build desktop apps in Ruby versus another program? 4:38 – Chuck: I was thinking the same thing. 4:59 – Saverio: Personally, I like consistency. When Ruby came out it’s meant to be very easy. It should be easy to hack a certain tool. It depends on a case basis. 6:15 – Panelist: How does Ruby shine in this respect? 6:19 – Saverio: It’s hard to say. It is a compromise with everything. That’s the case – if it is meant to be simple, keep it simple. When I wrote my app I was looking for consistency. Ruby is far from ideal and it’s compromising the project. 8:02 – Panelist: Tell us how you use it? Tell us your cases. 8:17 – Saverio dives into this topic. 9:05 – Panelist: I hate web applications online – I want it on my desktop. But it’s funny; I am the opposite when I make it. I really like the idea of Ruby being expanded beyond web application. Panelist continues to talk about what/where/how Ruby is used or not used. 10:30 – Chuck: I like the idea of expanding to other areas, as well. Do you think there is enough momentum to get it to a new place? 11:09 – Saverio answers this question. Saverio: To be honest, this might just be a niche. It’s being developed at a slow pace. I know a few things use Ruby, and they just want to use a few small tools, and a few frameworks. 12:38 – Panelist talks about Ruby and how it can be good for kids and beginners because of the visual component/feedback. 13:49 – Saverio: I agree. 13:59 – Chuck: I asked earlier, what would you recommend to kids to get started? 14:20 – Saverio answers the question. 16:02 – Panelist: I think I have a compromise, what about a web application that loads like a regular web page, but also has offline functionality? If you go offline it can load and sometimes work. Now you have a native application. 16:47 – Chuck adds in a comment. 16:53 – Advertisement 17:31 – Saverio: That would be complex, right? 17:44 – Chuck: They were headed towards desktop but never got there. 17:55 – Panelist: There is Ruby Motion. 18:41 – Chuck: We are going to have a special guest back to talk about doing Ruby Motion on the Nintendo Switch. I think it will take a lot to compile to get to the new system. 19:07 – What is your experience with building Opal? 19:17 – Saverio: I excluded those, actually. 19:50 – Panelist: Let’s talk about data and storing data? 20:04 – Saverio: Definitely. Saverio dives into this topic... 20:28 – Chuck: Do you use Active Record? 20:32 – Saverio: No. 21:00 – Saverio: I like simplistic solutions. 21:19 – Chuck: That sounds like it wouldn’t be completely foreign for people who have done web development. If we are more web active what will throw us off? Just in general. Your visual is different than the web. It’s different between a desktop and a web app. 22:21 – Panelist: If you are building in Ruby it can be locked down to a single thread. 22:37 – Saverio adds his thoughts. 22:59 – Panelist: Any open source projects that are gooey based application? 23:25 – Saverio: I am not aware. There are applications out there that are getting traction, though. 23:50 – Chuck asks Saverio a question. 24:01 – Saverio talks about Ruby 25:12 – Saverio is deciding on whether or not to transition to another language or not. 26:36 – Chuck: Things that are built with Shoes...Hackety Hack? 26:55 – Saverio: It is hard to write in Shoes. It’s fun for the beginner. 27:34 – Chuck: Anything else? 27:41 – Panelist: This has to do with the Gooey, and it’s Native Fire. 29:05 – Chuck chimes in. 29:26 – Panelist continues talking about this topic. 30:48 – Panelist: To make it beyond a toy, there needs to be more community support and more examples. I have been in Ruby for a while, but building applications in React and Electron is not that simple as in Ruby. I hope to see more support in open-source projects, and to take it to the next level. This is a story yet to be told. 31:52 – Panelist: My concern is it always looks like a high school project. 32:15 – Chuck: Yeah, doesn’t look completely polished. 32:19 – Saverio: Yes, when you go to a Ruby talk then... 32:50 – Chuck: Anything else? 33:04 – Saverio: I have nothing else to add. 33:10 – Advertisement 33:47 – Picks! Links: Get a Coder Job Course Ruby Shoes Saverio Miroddi’s GitHub Saverio Miroddi’s article, “Using scripts in any language for...” Saverio Miroddi’s article, “An overview of Desktop Ruby GUI Development in 2018” RhoMobile Ruby Motion Ruby Gems Hackety Hack NPM – Nativefier Sponsors: Sentry Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job Course Picks: Charles Books – I have been devouring stuff on Audible. Personal growth tape – The Queen’s Poisoner by Wheeler A View from the Top by Zig Ziglar Code Badges Dave Command strips – 3M NPM – Nativefier Eric 2 courses, plus a 3rd! How to write an open source How to Contribute to an Open Source Project on GitHub The beginners guide to React Free courses on Egghead Saverio Movie: The Founder

Panel: AJ O’Neal Aimee Knight Joe Eames Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Vitali Zaidman In this episode, the panel talks with programmer, Vitali Zaidman, who is working with Software Solutions Company. He researches technologies and starts new projects all the time, and looks at these new technologies within the market. The panel talks about testing JavaScript in 2018 and Jest. Show Topics: 1:32 – Chuck: Let’s talk about testing JavaScript in 2018. 1:53 – Vitali talks about solving problems in JavaScript. 2:46 – Chuck asks Vitali a question. 3:03 – Vitali’s answer. 3:30 – Why Jest? Why not Mocha or these other programs? 3:49 – Jest is the best interruption of what testing should look like and the best practice nowadays. There are different options, they can be better, but Jest has this great support from their community. There are great new features. 4:31 – Chuck to Joe: What are you using for testing nowadays? 4:43 – Joe: I use Angular, primarily. 6:01 – Like life, it’s sometimes easier to use things that make things very valuable. 7:55 – Aimee: I have heard great things about Cypress, but at work we are using another program. 8:22 – Vitali: Check out my article. 8:51 – Aimee: There are too many problems with the program that we use at work. 9:39 – Panelist to Vitali: I read your article, and I am a fan. Why do you pick Test Café over Cypress, and how familiar are you with Cypress? What about Selenium and other programs? 10:12 – Vitali: “Test Café and Cypress are competing head-to-head.” Listen to Vitali’s suggestions and comments per the panelists’ question at this timestamp. 11:25 – Chuck: I see that you use sign-on... 12:29 – Aimee: Can you talk about Puppeteer? It seems promising. 12:45 – Vitali: Yes, Puppeteer is promising. It’s developed by Google and by Chrome. You don’t want to use all of your tests in Puppeteer, because it will be really hard to do in other browsers. 13:26: Panelist: “...5, 6, 7, years ago it was important of any kind of JavaScript testing you had no idea if it worked in one browser and it not necessarily works in another browser. That was 10 years ago. Is multiple browsers testing as important then as it is now? 14:51: Vitali answers the above question. 15:30 – Aimee: If it is more JavaScript heavy then it could possibly cause more problems. 15:56 – Panelist: I agree with this. 16:02 – Vitali continues this conversation with additional comments. 16:17 – Aimee: “I see that Safari is the new Internet Explorer.” 16:23: Chuck: “Yes, you have to know your audience. Are they using older browsers? What is the compatibility?” 17:01 – Vitali: There are issues with the security. Firefox has a feature of tracking protection; something like that. 17:33 – Question to Vitali by Panelist. 17:55 – Vitali answers the question. 18:30 – Panelist makes additional comments. 18:43 – If you use Safari, you reap what you sow. 18:49 – Chuck: I use Chrome on my iPhone. (Aimee does, too.) Sometimes I wind up in Safari by accident. 19:38 – Panelist makes comments. 19:52 – Vitali tells a funny story that relates to this topic. 20:45 – There are too many standards out there. 21:05 – Aimee makes comments. 21:08 – Brutalist Web Design. Some guy has this site – Brutalist Web Design – where he says use basic stuff and stop being so custom. Stop using the web as some crazy platform, and if your site is a website that can be scrolled through, that’s great. It needs to be just enough for people to see your content. 22:16 – Aimee makes additional comments about this topic of Brutalist Web Design. 22:35 – Panelist: I like it when people go out and say things like that. 22:45 – Here is the point, though. There is a difference between a website and a web application. Really the purpose is to read an article. 23:37 – Vitali chimes in. 24:01 – Back to the topic of content on websites. 25:17 – Panelist: Medium is very minimal. Medium doesn’t feel like an application. 26:10 – Is the website easy enough for the user to scroll through and get the content like they want to? 26:19 – Advertisement. 27:22 – See how far off the topic we got? 27:31 – These are my favorite conversations to have. 27:39 – Vitali: Let’s talk about how my article got so popular. It’s an interesting thing, I started researching “testing” for my company. We wanted to implement one of the testing tools. Instead of creating a presentation, I would write first about it in Medium to get feedback from the community as well. It was a great decision, because I got a lot of comments back. I enjoyed the experience, too. Just write about your problem in Medium to see what people say. 28:48 – Panelist: You put a ton of time and energy in this article. There are tons of links. Did you really go through all of those articles? 29:10 – Yes, what are the most permanent tools? I was just reading through a lot of comments and feedback from people. I tested the tools myself, too! 29:37 – Panelist: You broke down the article, and it’s a 22-minute read. 30:09 – Vitali: I wrote the article for my company, and they ad to read it. 30:24 – Panelist: Spending so much time – you probably felt like it was apart of your job. 30:39 – Vitali: I really like creating and writing. It was rally amazing for me and a great experience. I feel like I am talented in this area because I write well and fast. I wanted to express myself. 31:17 – Did you edit and review? 31:23 – Vitali: I wrote it by myself and some friends read it. There were serious mistakes, and that’s okay I am not afraid of mistakes. This way you get feedback. 32:10 – Chuck: “Some people see testing in JavaScript, and people look at this and say there are so much here. Is there a place where people can start, so that way they don’t’ get too overwhelmed? Is there a way to ease into this and take a bite-size at a time?” 32:52 – Vitali: “Find something that works for them. Read the article and start writing code.” He continues this conversation from here on out. 34:03 – Chuck continues to ask questions and add other comments. 34:16 – Vitali chimes-in.  34:38 – Chuck.  34:46 – Vitali piggybacks off of Chuck’s comments. 36:14 – Panelist: Let’s go back to Jest. There is a very common occurrence where we see lots of turn and we see ideas like this has become the dominant or the standard, a lot of people talk about stuff within this community. Then we get this idea that ‘this is the only thing that is happening.’ Transition to jQuery to React to... With that context do you feel like Jest will be a dominant program? Are we going to see Jest used just as common as Mocha and other popular programs? 38:15 – Vitali comments on the panelist’s question. 38:50 – Panelist: New features. Are the features in Jest (over Jasmine, Mocha, etc.) so important that it will drive people to it by itself? 40:30 – Vitali comments on this great question. 40:58 – Panelist asks questions about features about Jest. 41:29 – Vitali talks about this topic. 42:14 – Let’s go to picks! 42:14 – Advertisement. Links: Vitali Zaidman’s Facebook Vitali Zaidman’s Medium Vitali Zaidman’s GitHub Vitali Zaidman’s NPM Vitali Zaidman’s LinkedIn Vitali Zaidman’s Medium Article JavaScript Brutalist Web Design Jasmine Cypress React jQuery Jest Protractor – end to end testing for Angular Test Café Intern Sinon XKCD Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Digital Ocean Cache Fly Picks: AJ O’Neal Continuous from last week’s episode: Crossing the Chasm – New Technologies from Niche to General Adaptation. Go Lang Joe Eames Board Game: Rajas of the Ganges Framework Summit Conference in Utah React Conference Aimee Knight Hacker News – “Does Software Understand Complexity” via Michael Feathers Cream City Code Chuck E-Book: How do I get a job? Express VPN Vitali Book: The Square and The Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook by Niall Ferguson My article!

Panel: Charles Max Wood Mark Ericksen Josh Adams Eric Berry Special Guest: Brooklyn Zelenka In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks to Brooklyn Zelenka who lives in Vancouver, Canada. Listen to the panel and the guest talk about various topics, such as: different Elixir libraries, Quark, Witchcraft, Exceptional, ConsenSys, Meetup, among others. Show Topics: 1:33 – Let’s talk about Exceptional for that library? 1:40 – Brooklyn: Sure, it helps with flow. 3:33 – You are making Exceptional more accessible? 3:35 – Brooklyn: Yes, more conceptual. 3:49 – Panelist: What’s the adaptation like? 4:09 – Brooklyn: People seem to like it. 4:33 – Panelist: What were you doing before that? 4:42 – Brooklyn: First language was JavaScript. There is a huge Ruby community. Tons of Ruby refugees looking for help. 5:27 – There seems to be a large migration from Ruby to Elixir. Have you played with Ruby at all? 5:40 – Brooklyn: Yes, I have used Ruby for a couple of years. There is such an interest in Elixir from the Ruby community. They are such different languages. The aesthetic is similar, and the way the languages are set-up is completely different. 6:41 – Panelist: So not having three or four different alien methods? I have been developing Elixr for a while now, but Ruby doesn’t solve modern-day problems. The fact that you have been working with Elixir since 2014 is amazing. 7:24 – Brooklyn: The first library I wrote was Quark. Then that led into Witchcraft. 10:49 – Panelist adds in his comments. 11:06 – Brooklyn: There are a lot of different things I would love to see in the libraries. At what point do we say that this is the default style in Elixir? My keynote was exactly about this at a conference this year. Elixir hits a nice spot in the program place. It’s very accessible. I’ve brought into these concepts because of Elixir. 12:37 – Let’s talk Exceptions. Will it become apart of core? 13:14 – Brooklyn: I wouldn’t mind that it would become apart of core. 15:10 – Any other questions around Exceptional or Exception or other libraries? 15:25 – Panelist: Let’s change topics. 15:30 – Brooklyn has her own company now. 15:52 – Panelist: Good job on Roberts Overload! 16:00 – Panelist: Where does block chain and Elixir meet? 16:08 – Brooklyn answers this question. 17:16 – Brooklyn: Not all block chains are... 19:02 – Brooklyn: Another good fit would be... 19:33 – Panelist: My company is apart of ConsenSys. I hear a lot about the block chain and others. How can Elixir help the block chain? (20:15) You mentioned earlier that Elixir could solve a lot of the issues that bock chain is having. Can you elaborate on this? 20:21 – Brooklyn answers this question – here – check it out! 21:21 – Brooklyn: By bringing in these concepts... 22:16 – Brooklyn makes a huge podcast announcement!! Breaking News! 22:37 – What does that mean – messages on a... 24:06 – Advertisement – Digital Ocean! 24:43 – The mail messages contents does that sit on the ledger or... 25:01 – Brooklyn talks about this topic in detail. 26:00 – Brooklyn: There is a distribution of control. I am going to have to run a program to check when a message comes in – I would like that to be hooked up to my UI, ideally. 26:35 – Panelist: You are a fascinating person! 26:45 – Chuck: You also do Elixir training for people? 26:56 – Yes! We help companies and go to conferences. This is for zero experience with Elixir. Over the course of a couple of days to give people confidence production in Elixir. It won’t give you all of the knowledge, but it helps. This also gives people access to me, and my business partner, to use us for questions and so on. 28:56 – You live in Vancouver. What is the Elixir community – through Meetup – what is the temperature like there for Elixir or Ruby, etc.? What are the trends looking like? 29:31 – Brooklyn: Yes, check us out at Meetup. 35:18 – Panelist: I think that is interesting on your opinions on GO with your background. 35:35 – Brooklyn continues her ideas on this topic. It’s not to say that GO is the worse language ever, but from what I have seen that it’s a nice experience in Elixir that things work. All the libraries integrate nicely. There is a style and flavor that is friendly. You get the friendliness with all of this power. You can scale up very nicely from a single node. 37:47 – Where can Elixir “should” go and could go? 38:21 – Brooklyn answers this question and others. 39:21 – Dialyxir / Elixir. 41:27 – Dialyxir overall is pretty nice and it gets the job done with what Elixir needs it to do. Type system. 42:09 – The pre-existing eco-system isn’t built for it. You don’t know if it’s safe to run? There is no way to know about this. The overhead for the programmer tends to be really high. Why don’t we add things like – adding property checks – to ensure that you know how this thing will behave when it run. Using some other techniques – not just in tests – but integrate it into the core workflow. This is really important 44:22 – Advertisement! 45:03 – Panelist chimes in. 45:21 – Brooklyn: Have you seen Alpaca? I am sure it’s 1.0 now. It runs on the beam. 46:15 – Panelist adds comments. 46:25 – Brooklyn: This is why I brought up RChain earlier in the conversation. 47:01 – Block Chain. 48:17 – Panelist talks. 48:53 – Brooklyn: At the application level – one of my projects is having a language that will run... 51:17 – Chuck: I am still learning Elixir. So this is way beyond from where I am at. Let’s do some picks! Links: Coder Job eBook by Charles Max Wood Elixir Rails GO Quark Witchcraft Type Class Algae Exceptional Phoenix Exceptional Robot Overload Raft Consensus Algorithm Ethereum Status Codes Dialyxir Expede Type Class Alpaca Kaizen Matt Diep House ConsenSys / Ethql Metabase TerraGenesis TerraGenesis – Space Colony Wabi-Sabi RChain Brooklyn’s Medium Brooklyn’s Meetup in Vancouver Brooklyn’s GitHub Brooklyn’s LinkedIn Brooklyn – Lambda Conference 2018 Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Digital Ocean Code Badges Cache Fly Picks: Charles Make some incremental step forward – adding onto Mark’s pick - Kaizen. TerraGenesis TerraGenesis – Space Colony Honest feedback! What can I change? Phoenix Mark Workspace Environment: Kaizen – Change for the Better = Improvement. Josh Article – Value-Oriented Programming Eric Library – ConsenSys / Ethql Metabase Brooklyn Wabi-Sabi – seeing the beauty in things that imperfect.

Panel: AJ O’Neal Aimee Knight Joe Eames Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Vitali Zaidman In this episode, the panel talks with programmer, Vitali Zaidman, who is working with Software Solutions Company. He researches technologies and starts new projects all the time, and looks at these new technologies within the market. The panel talks about testing JavaScript in 2018 and Jest. Show Topics: 1:32 – Chuck: Let’s talk about testing JavaScript in 2018. 1:53 – Vitali talks about solving problems in JavaScript. 2:46 – Chuck asks Vitali a question. 3:03 – Vitali’s answer. 3:30 – Why Jest? Why not Mocha or these other programs? 3:49 – Jest is the best interruption of what testing should look like and the best practice nowadays. There are different options, they can be better, but Jest has this great support from their community. There are great new features. 4:31 – Chuck to Joe: What are you using for testing nowadays? 4:43 – Joe: I use Angular, primarily. 6:01 – Like life, it’s sometimes easier to use things that make things very valuable. 7:55 – Aimee: I have heard great things about Cypress, but at work we are using another program. 8:22 – Vitali: Check out my article. 8:51 – Aimee: There are too many problems with the program that we use at work. 9:39 – Panelist to Vitali: I read your article, and I am a fan. Why do you pick Test Café over Cypress, and how familiar are you with Cypress? What about Selenium and other programs? 10:12 – Vitali: “Test Café and Cypress are competing head-to-head.” Listen to Vitali’s suggestions and comments per the panelists’ question at this timestamp. 11:25 – Chuck: I see that you use sign-on... 12:29 – Aimee: Can you talk about Puppeteer? It seems promising. 12:45 – Vitali: Yes, Puppeteer is promising. It’s developed by Google and by Chrome. You don’t want to use all of your tests in Puppeteer, because it will be really hard to do in other browsers. 13:26: Panelist: “...5, 6, 7, years ago it was important of any kind of JavaScript testing you had no idea if it worked in one browser and it not necessarily works in another browser. That was 10 years ago. Is multiple browsers testing as important then as it is now? 14:51: Vitali answers the above question. 15:30 – Aimee: If it is more JavaScript heavy then it could possibly cause more problems. 15:56 – Panelist: I agree with this. 16:02 – Vitali continues this conversation with additional comments. 16:17 – Aimee: “I see that Safari is the new Internet Explorer.” 16:23: Chuck: “Yes, you have to know your audience. Are they using older browsers? What is the compatibility?” 17:01 – Vitali: There are issues with the security. Firefox has a feature of tracking protection; something like that. 17:33 – Question to Vitali by Panelist. 17:55 – Vitali answers the question. 18:30 – Panelist makes additional comments. 18:43 – If you use Safari, you reap what you sow. 18:49 – Chuck: I use Chrome on my iPhone. (Aimee does, too.) Sometimes I wind up in Safari by accident. 19:38 – Panelist makes comments. 19:52 – Vitali tells a funny story that relates to this topic. 20:45 – There are too many standards out there. 21:05 – Aimee makes comments. 21:08 – Brutalist Web Design. Some guy has this site – Brutalist Web Design – where he says use basic stuff and stop being so custom. Stop using the web as some crazy platform, and if your site is a website that can be scrolled through, that’s great. It needs to be just enough for people to see your content. 22:16 – Aimee makes additional comments about this topic of Brutalist Web Design. 22:35 – Panelist: I like it when people go out and say things like that. 22:45 – Here is the point, though. There is a difference between a website and a web application. Really the purpose is to read an article. 23:37 – Vitali chimes in. 24:01 – Back to the topic of content on websites. 25:17 – Panelist: Medium is very minimal. Medium doesn’t feel like an application. 26:10 – Is the website easy enough for the user to scroll through and get the content like they want to? 26:19 – Advertisement. 27:22 – See how far off the topic we got? 27:31 – These are my favorite conversations to have. 27:39 – Vitali: Let’s talk about how my article got so popular. It’s an interesting thing, I started researching “testing” for my company. We wanted to implement one of the testing tools. Instead of creating a presentation, I would write first about it in Medium to get feedback from the community as well. It was a great decision, because I got a lot of comments back. I enjoyed the experience, too. Just write about your problem in Medium to see what people say. 28:48 – Panelist: You put a ton of time and energy in this article. There are tons of links. Did you really go through all of those articles? 29:10 – Yes, what are the most permanent tools? I was just reading through a lot of comments and feedback from people. I tested the tools myself, too! 29:37 – Panelist: You broke down the article, and it’s a 22-minute read. 30:09 – Vitali: I wrote the article for my company, and they ad to read it. 30:24 – Panelist: Spending so much time – you probably felt like it was apart of your job. 30:39 – Vitali: I really like creating and writing. It was rally amazing for me and a great experience. I feel like I am talented in this area because I write well and fast. I wanted to express myself. 31:17 – Did you edit and review? 31:23 – Vitali: I wrote it by myself and some friends read it. There were serious mistakes, and that’s okay I am not afraid of mistakes. This way you get feedback. 32:10 – Chuck: “Some people see testing in JavaScript, and people look at this and say there are so much here. Is there a place where people can start, so that way they don’t’ get too overwhelmed? Is there a way to ease into this and take a bite-size at a time?” 32:52 – Vitali: “Find something that works for them. Read the article and start writing code.” He continues this conversation from here on out. 34:03 – Chuck continues to ask questions and add other comments. 34:16 – Vitali chimes-in.  34:38 – Chuck.  34:46 – Vitali piggybacks off of Chuck’s comments. 36:14 – Panelist: Let’s go back to Jest. There is a very common occurrence where we see lots of turn and we see ideas like this has become the dominant or the standard, a lot of people talk about stuff within this community. Then we get this idea that ‘this is the only thing that is happening.’ Transition to jQuery to React to... With that context do you feel like Jest will be a dominant program? Are we going to see Jest used just as common as Mocha and other popular programs? 38:15 – Vitali comments on the panelist’s question. 38:50 – Panelist: New features. Are the features in Jest (over Jasmine, Mocha, etc.) so important that it will drive people to it by itself? 40:30 – Vitali comments on this great question. 40:58 – Panelist asks questions about features about Jest. 41:29 – Vitali talks about this topic. 42:14 – Let’s go to picks! 42:14 – Advertisement. Links: Vitali Zaidman’s Facebook Vitali Zaidman’s Medium Vitali Zaidman’s GitHub Vitali Zaidman’s NPM Vitali Zaidman’s LinkedIn Vitali Zaidman’s Medium Article JavaScript Brutalist Web Design Jasmine Cypress React jQuery Jest Protractor – end to end testing for Angular Test Café Intern Sinon XKCD Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Digital Ocean Cache Fly Picks: AJ O’Neal Continuous from last week’s episode: Crossing the Chasm – New Technologies from Niche to General Adaptation. Go Lang Joe Eames Board Game: Rajas of the Ganges Framework Summit Conference in Utah React Conference Aimee Knight Hacker News – “Does Software Understand Complexity” via Michael Feathers Cream City Code Chuck E-Book: How do I get a job? Express VPN Vitali Book: The Square and The Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook by Niall Ferguson My article!

Panel: Charles Max Wood Mark Ericksen Josh Adams Eric Berry Special Guest: Brooklyn Zelenka In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks to Brooklyn Zelenka who lives in Vancouver, Canada. Listen to the panel and the guest talk about various topics, such as: different Elixir libraries, Quark, Witchcraft, Exceptional, ConsenSys, Meetup, among others. Show Topics: 1:33 – Let’s talk about Exceptional for that library? 1:40 – Brooklyn: Sure, it helps with flow. 3:33 – You are making Exceptional more accessible? 3:35 – Brooklyn: Yes, more conceptual. 3:49 – Panelist: What’s the adaptation like? 4:09 – Brooklyn: People seem to like it. 4:33 – Panelist: What were you doing before that? 4:42 – Brooklyn: First language was JavaScript. There is a huge Ruby community. Tons of Ruby refugees looking for help. 5:27 – There seems to be a large migration from Ruby to Elixir. Have you played with Ruby at all? 5:40 – Brooklyn: Yes, I have used Ruby for a couple of years. There is such an interest in Elixir from the Ruby community. They are such different languages. The aesthetic is similar, and the way the languages are set-up is completely different. 6:41 – Panelist: So not having three or four different alien methods? I have been developing Elixr for a while now, but Ruby doesn’t solve modern-day problems. The fact that you have been working with Elixir since 2014 is amazing. 7:24 – Brooklyn: The first library I wrote was Quark. Then that led into Witchcraft. 10:49 – Panelist adds in his comments. 11:06 – Brooklyn: There are a lot of different things I would love to see in the libraries. At what point do we say that this is the default style in Elixir? My keynote was exactly about this at a conference this year. Elixir hits a nice spot in the program place. It’s very accessible. I’ve brought into these concepts because of Elixir. 12:37 – Let’s talk Exceptions. Will it become apart of core? 13:14 – Brooklyn: I wouldn’t mind that it would become apart of core. 15:10 – Any other questions around Exceptional or Exception or other libraries? 15:25 – Panelist: Let’s change topics. 15:30 – Brooklyn has her own company now. 15:52 – Panelist: Good job on Roberts Overload! 16:00 – Panelist: Where does block chain and Elixir meet? 16:08 – Brooklyn answers this question. 17:16 – Brooklyn: Not all block chains are... 19:02 – Brooklyn: Another good fit would be... 19:33 – Panelist: My company is apart of ConsenSys. I hear a lot about the block chain and others. How can Elixir help the block chain? (20:15) You mentioned earlier that Elixir could solve a lot of the issues that bock chain is having. Can you elaborate on this? 20:21 – Brooklyn answers this question – here – check it out! 21:21 – Brooklyn: By bringing in these concepts... 22:16 – Brooklyn makes a huge podcast announcement!! Breaking News! 22:37 – What does that mean – messages on a... 24:06 – Advertisement – Digital Ocean! 24:43 – The mail messages contents does that sit on the ledger or... 25:01 – Brooklyn talks about this topic in detail. 26:00 – Brooklyn: There is a distribution of control. I am going to have to run a program to check when a message comes in – I would like that to be hooked up to my UI, ideally. 26:35 – Panelist: You are a fascinating person! 26:45 – Chuck: You also do Elixir training for people? 26:56 – Yes! We help companies and go to conferences. This is for zero experience with Elixir. Over the course of a couple of days to give people confidence production in Elixir. It won’t give you all of the knowledge, but it helps. This also gives people access to me, and my business partner, to use us for questions and so on. 28:56 – You live in Vancouver. What is the Elixir community – through Meetup – what is the temperature like there for Elixir or Ruby, etc.? What are the trends looking like? 29:31 – Brooklyn: Yes, check us out at Meetup. 35:18 – Panelist: I think that is interesting on your opinions on GO with your background. 35:35 – Brooklyn continues her ideas on this topic. It’s not to say that GO is the worse language ever, but from what I have seen that it’s a nice experience in Elixir that things work. All the libraries integrate nicely. There is a style and flavor that is friendly. You get the friendliness with all of this power. You can scale up very nicely from a single node. 37:47 – Where can Elixir “should” go and could go? 38:21 – Brooklyn answers this question and others. 39:21 – Dialyxir / Elixir. 41:27 – Dialyxir overall is pretty nice and it gets the job done with what Elixir needs it to do. Type system. 42:09 – The pre-existing eco-system isn’t built for it. You don’t know if it’s safe to run? There is no way to know about this. The overhead for the programmer tends to be really high. Why don’t we add things like – adding property checks – to ensure that you know how this thing will behave when it run. Using some other techniques – not just in tests – but integrate it into the core workflow. This is really important 44:22 – Advertisement! 45:03 – Panelist chimes in. 45:21 – Brooklyn: Have you seen Alpaca? I am sure it’s 1.0 now. It runs on the beam. 46:15 – Panelist adds comments. 46:25 – Brooklyn: This is why I brought up RChain earlier in the conversation. 47:01 – Block Chain. 48:17 – Panelist talks. 48:53 – Brooklyn: At the application level – one of my projects is having a language that will run... 51:17 – Chuck: I am still learning Elixir. So this is way beyond from where I am at. Let’s do some picks! Links: Coder Job eBook by Charles Max Wood Elixir Rails GO Quark Witchcraft Type Class Algae Exceptional Phoenix Exceptional Robot Overload Raft Consensus Algorithm Ethereum Status Codes Dialyxir Expede Type Class Alpaca Kaizen Matt Diep House ConsenSys / Ethql Metabase TerraGenesis TerraGenesis – Space Colony Wabi-Sabi RChain Brooklyn’s Medium Brooklyn’s Meetup in Vancouver Brooklyn’s GitHub Brooklyn’s LinkedIn Brooklyn – Lambda Conference 2018 Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Digital Ocean Code Badges Cache Fly Picks: Charles Make some incremental step forward – adding onto Mark’s pick - Kaizen. TerraGenesis TerraGenesis – Space Colony Honest feedback! What can I change? Phoenix Mark Workspace Environment: Kaizen – Change for the Better = Improvement. Josh Article – Value-Oriented Programming Eric Library – ConsenSys / Ethql Metabase Brooklyn Wabi-Sabi – seeing the beauty in things that imperfect.

Panel: AJ O’Neal Aimee Knight Joe Eames Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Vitali Zaidman In this episode, the panel talks with programmer, Vitali Zaidman, who is working with Software Solutions Company. He researches technologies and starts new projects all the time, and looks at these new technologies within the market. The panel talks about testing JavaScript in 2018 and Jest. Show Topics: 1:32 – Chuck: Let’s talk about testing JavaScript in 2018. 1:53 – Vitali talks about solving problems in JavaScript. 2:46 – Chuck asks Vitali a question. 3:03 – Vitali’s answer. 3:30 – Why Jest? Why not Mocha or these other programs? 3:49 – Jest is the best interruption of what testing should look like and the best practice nowadays. There are different options, they can be better, but Jest has this great support from their community. There are great new features. 4:31 – Chuck to Joe: What are you using for testing nowadays? 4:43 – Joe: I use Angular, primarily. 6:01 – Like life, it’s sometimes easier to use things that make things very valuable. 7:55 – Aimee: I have heard great things about Cypress, but at work we are using another program. 8:22 – Vitali: Check out my article. 8:51 – Aimee: There are too many problems with the program that we use at work. 9:39 – Panelist to Vitali: I read your article, and I am a fan. Why do you pick Test Café over Cypress, and how familiar are you with Cypress? What about Selenium and other programs? 10:12 – Vitali: “Test Café and Cypress are competing head-to-head.” Listen to Vitali’s suggestions and comments per the panelists’ question at this timestamp. 11:25 – Chuck: I see that you use sign-on... 12:29 – Aimee: Can you talk about Puppeteer? It seems promising. 12:45 – Vitali: Yes, Puppeteer is promising. It’s developed by Google and by Chrome. You don’t want to use all of your tests in Puppeteer, because it will be really hard to do in other browsers. 13:26: Panelist: “...5, 6, 7, years ago it was important of any kind of JavaScript testing you had no idea if it worked in one browser and it not necessarily works in another browser. That was 10 years ago. Is multiple browsers testing as important then as it is now? 14:51: Vitali answers the above question. 15:30 – Aimee: If it is more JavaScript heavy then it could possibly cause more problems. 15:56 – Panelist: I agree with this. 16:02 – Vitali continues this conversation with additional comments. 16:17 – Aimee: “I see that Safari is the new Internet Explorer.” 16:23: Chuck: “Yes, you have to know your audience. Are they using older browsers? What is the compatibility?” 17:01 – Vitali: There are issues with the security. Firefox has a feature of tracking protection; something like that. 17:33 – Question to Vitali by Panelist. 17:55 – Vitali answers the question. 18:30 – Panelist makes additional comments. 18:43 – If you use Safari, you reap what you sow. 18:49 – Chuck: I use Chrome on my iPhone. (Aimee does, too.) Sometimes I wind up in Safari by accident. 19:38 – Panelist makes comments. 19:52 – Vitali tells a funny story that relates to this topic. 20:45 – There are too many standards out there. 21:05 – Aimee makes comments. 21:08 – Brutalist Web Design. Some guy has this site – Brutalist Web Design – where he says use basic stuff and stop being so custom. Stop using the web as some crazy platform, and if your site is a website that can be scrolled through, that’s great. It needs to be just enough for people to see your content. 22:16 – Aimee makes additional comments about this topic of Brutalist Web Design. 22:35 – Panelist: I like it when people go out and say things like that. 22:45 – Here is the point, though. There is a difference between a website and a web application. Really the purpose is to read an article. 23:37 – Vitali chimes in. 24:01 – Back to the topic of content on websites. 25:17 – Panelist: Medium is very minimal. Medium doesn’t feel like an application. 26:10 – Is the website easy enough for the user to scroll through and get the content like they want to? 26:19 – Advertisement. 27:22 – See how far off the topic we got? 27:31 – These are my favorite conversations to have. 27:39 – Vitali: Let’s talk about how my article got so popular. It’s an interesting thing, I started researching “testing” for my company. We wanted to implement one of the testing tools. Instead of creating a presentation, I would write first about it in Medium to get feedback from the community as well. It was a great decision, because I got a lot of comments back. I enjoyed the experience, too. Just write about your problem in Medium to see what people say. 28:48 – Panelist: You put a ton of time and energy in this article. There are tons of links. Did you really go through all of those articles? 29:10 – Yes, what are the most permanent tools? I was just reading through a lot of comments and feedback from people. I tested the tools myself, too! 29:37 – Panelist: You broke down the article, and it’s a 22-minute read. 30:09 – Vitali: I wrote the article for my company, and they ad to read it. 30:24 – Panelist: Spending so much time – you probably felt like it was apart of your job. 30:39 – Vitali: I really like creating and writing. It was rally amazing for me and a great experience. I feel like I am talented in this area because I write well and fast. I wanted to express myself. 31:17 – Did you edit and review? 31:23 – Vitali: I wrote it by myself and some friends read it. There were serious mistakes, and that’s okay I am not afraid of mistakes. This way you get feedback. 32:10 – Chuck: “Some people see testing in JavaScript, and people look at this and say there are so much here. Is there a place where people can start, so that way they don’t’ get too overwhelmed? Is there a way to ease into this and take a bite-size at a time?” 32:52 – Vitali: “Find something that works for them. Read the article and start writing code.” He continues this conversation from here on out. 34:03 – Chuck continues to ask questions and add other comments. 34:16 – Vitali chimes-in.  34:38 – Chuck.  34:46 – Vitali piggybacks off of Chuck’s comments. 36:14 – Panelist: Let’s go back to Jest. There is a very common occurrence where we see lots of turn and we see ideas like this has become the dominant or the standard, a lot of people talk about stuff within this community. Then we get this idea that ‘this is the only thing that is happening.’ Transition to jQuery to React to... With that context do you feel like Jest will be a dominant program? Are we going to see Jest used just as common as Mocha and other popular programs? 38:15 – Vitali comments on the panelist’s question. 38:50 – Panelist: New features. Are the features in Jest (over Jasmine, Mocha, etc.) so important that it will drive people to it by itself? 40:30 – Vitali comments on this great question. 40:58 – Panelist asks questions about features about Jest. 41:29 – Vitali talks about this topic. 42:14 – Let’s go to picks! 42:14 – Advertisement. Links: Vitali Zaidman’s Facebook Vitali Zaidman’s Medium Vitali Zaidman’s GitHub Vitali Zaidman’s NPM Vitali Zaidman’s LinkedIn Vitali Zaidman’s Medium Article JavaScript Brutalist Web Design Jasmine Cypress React jQuery Jest Protractor – end to end testing for Angular Test Café Intern Sinon XKCD Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Digital Ocean Cache Fly Picks: AJ O’Neal Continuous from last week’s episode: Crossing the Chasm – New Technologies from Niche to General Adaptation. Go Lang Joe Eames Board Game: Rajas of the Ganges Framework Summit Conference in Utah React Conference Aimee Knight Hacker News – “Does Software Understand Complexity” via Michael Feathers Cream City Code Chuck E-Book: How do I get a job? Express VPN Vitali Book: The Square and The Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook by Niall Ferguson My article!