Podcasts about Internet Explorer

(Sermon) Hebrews: Holy Blameless Pure, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Hebrews 7:1-28 Melchizedek the Priest: Hebrews chapter7 verses 1-10 Jesus Like Melchizedek: Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11-28 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

The Belgian surrealist René Magritte was a smart artist, but could the 20th century futurist really have predicted the end of the Worldwide Web age? Not exactly, of course. But according to That Was The Week publisher, Keith Teare, Magritte's 1929 painting, “The Treachery of Images” (featuring the image of a pipe with the immortal words “Ceci n'est pas une pipe”), is a helpful way of thinking about OpenAI's introduction this week of their new Atlas “browser”. It's not really a browser in the conventional way that we think about web browsers like Chrome, Firefox or Internet Explorer. And yet AI products like Atlas are about to once again revolutionize how we use the internet. They might even represent the end of the web age with its link architecture and advertising economics. So do we have words for what comes next? The not-a-browser age, perhaps. L'ère sans navigateur, to be exact. * The Browser Is Becoming an Agent, Not a Link Map - For thirty years, browsers like Netscape, Internet Explorer, and Chrome were rendering engines for HTML that displayed blue links to web pages. AI products like ChatGPT's Atlas and Google's AI mode in Chrome are transforming browsers into conversational agents that answer questions, summarize content, and even execute tasks like booking flights—pushing the traditional web “down a level” in the user interface hierarchy.* The Web's Trillion-Dollar Advertising Model Must “Reprice Fast” - The web's business model has been largely advertising-based, built on users clicking links that generate revenue. As AI interfaces replace link-based browsing, this nearly trillion-dollar annual revenue stream faces an existential threat. Publishers like Keith Teare and platforms like Google must figure out how to transition their economics to an AI-driven world where links aren't surfaced by default.* Google Deserves Its Stock Price for “Being Brave in Undermining Its Own Business Model” - While AI threatens to upend Google's AdWords cash cow, the company's stock has surged roughly 50% over the past year. Keith argues Google has earned this bullishness by aggressively investing in AI infrastructure (like Anthropic's $10 billion commitment to Google's TPUs) and integrating AI features into Chrome—even though these moves could cannibalize its core search advertising business.* The “Victim Here Is the Publisher, Not the User” - Keith acknowledges that while the shift to AI agents feels like “an absolute change of paradigm,” it's genuinely better for users who get more intuitive, conversational interfaces. Publishers and content creators are the ones facing disruption, as AI may eliminate their distribution channels without yet providing alternatives for reaching audiences or monetizing content. The challenge is that “most of the narrative that doesn't like it is publisher-centric.”* Tim Wu and Antitrust Regulators Are “Fighting Yesterday's War” - Columbia law professor Tim Wu's new book The Age of Extraction focuses on the monopolistic dangers of Google, Amazon, and Facebook—but Keith argues this framing is already obsolete. The real competitive battlefield is AI, where Google is a “laggard” behind OpenAI and Anthropic. The underlying internet architecture (TCP/IP) remains neutral enough to allow challengers to emerge, making heavy-handed government intervention both unnecessary and potentially innovation-killing, as seen in the over-regulated EU.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

Hey everyone, Alex here! Welcome... to the browser war II - the AI edition! This week we chatted in depth about ChatGPT's new Atlas agentic browser, and the additional agentic powers Microsoft added to Edge with Copilot Mode (tho it didn't work for me) Also this week was a kind of crazy OCR week, with more than 4 OCR models releasing, and the crown one is DeepSeek OCR, that turned the whole industry on it's head (more later) Quite a few video updates as well, with real time lipsync from Decart, and a new update from LTX with 4k native video generation, it's been a busy AI week for sure! Additionally, I've had the pleasure to talk about AI Browsing agents with Paul from BrowserBase and real time video with Kwindla Kramer from Pipecat/Daily, so make sure to tune in for those interviews, buckle up, let's dive in! Thanks for reading ThursdAI - Recaps of the most high signal AI weekly spaces! This post is public so feel free to share it.Open Source: OCR is Not What You Think It Is (X, HF, Paper)The most important and frankly mind-bending release this week came from DeepSeek. They dropped DeepSeek-OCR, and let me tell you, this is NOT just another OCR model. The cohost were buzzing about this, and once I dug in, I understood why. This isn't just about reading text from an image; it's a revolutionary approach to context compression.We think that DeepSeek needed this as an internal tool, so we're really grateful to them for open sourcing this, as they did something crazy here. They are essentially turning text into a visual representation, compressing it, and then using a tiny vision decoder to read it back with incredible accuracy. We're talking about a compression ratio of up to 10x with 97% decoding accuracy. Even at 20x compression they are achieving 60% decoding accuracy! My head exploded live on the show when I read that. This is like the middle-out compression algorithm joke from Silicon Valley, but it's real. As Yam pointed out, this suggests our current methods of text tokenization are far from optimal.With only 3B and ~570M active parameters, they are taking a direct stab at long context inefficiency, imagine taking 1M tokens, encoding them into 100K visual tokens, and then feeding those into a model. Since the model is tiny, it's very cheap to run, for example, alphaXiv claimed they have OCRd' all of the papers on ArXiv with this model for $1000, a task that would have cost $7500 using MistalOCR - as per their paper, with DeepSeek OCR, on a single H100 GPU, its possible to scan up to 200K pages!

OpenAI just dropped its unbelievable new browser. All signs point to it overshadowing Chrome, but is this really the dawn of a new era? Or just another hype cycle, courtesy of Sam Altman?In this episode, Chris Saad and Yaniv Bernstein react to OpenAI's surprise launch of ChatGPT Atlas and debate its strategic implications. They also discuss Apple's underwhelming Vision Pro refresh (and what it means for the company at large), YouTube's new likeness detection tech, and Reid Hoffman's viral post on “good vs. bad actors” in AI.In this episode, you will:Explore what makes ChatGPT Atlas different from Chrome, Safari, and Arc, and why it matters.Understand why OpenAI is desperate to own distribution, not just models.Compare today's “browser wars” with the 2000s Chrome vs. Internet Explorer showdown.Learn how Apple's Vision Pro M5 update signals the slow rebirth of spatial computing.Discover why YouTube's new Content ID for faces could be a turning point for AI deepfakes.Hear how AI arms races mirror past battles like spam detection, piracy, and antivirus wars.Unpack Reid Hoffman's call for “good actors” in AI and whether self-regulation can actually work.Get started with Cyber Matters: https://www.cybermatters.io The Pact Honor the Startup Podcast Pact! If you have listened to TSP and gotten value from it, please:Follow, rate, and review us in your listening appSubscribe to the TSP Mailing List to gain access to exclusive newsletter-only content and early access to information on upcoming episodes: https://thestartuppodcast.beehiiv.com/subscribe Secure your official TSP merchandise at https://shop.tsp.show/  Follow us here on YouTube for full-video episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNjm1MTdjysRRV07fSf0yGg Give us a public shout-out on LinkedIn or anywhere you have a social media followingKey linksGet your question in for our next Q&A episode: https://forms.gle/NZzgNWVLiFmwvFA2A The Startup Podcast website: https://www.tsp.show/episodes/Learn more about Chris and YanivWork 1:1 with Chris: http://chrissaad.com/advisory/  Follow Chris on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrissaad/  Follow Yaniv on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ybernstein/Producer: Justin McArthur https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-mcarthurIntro Voice: Jeremiah Owyang https://web-strategist.com/

(Sermon) Hebrews: Maturity in Christ, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Hebrews 6:1-20 Maturity in Christ: Hebrewschapter6 verses 1-12 The Certainty of God's Promise: Hebrews chapter 6 verses 13-20 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

What if the right relationships at the right time positioned you at the forefront of every major technology revolution for 25 years? In this episode, Peter Swain, international speaker, bestselling author, and AI enablement advocate, shares his extraordinary journey from coding at age six to being at the epicenter of three major tech paradigm shifts — the web, mobile, and now AI. Through chance encounters with Tim Berners-Lee (inventor of HTML and the World Wide Web), working directly with Steve Jobs, and saying "yes" to countless opportunities, Peter has built a career helping entrepreneurs leverage AI to work half the time while earning twice as much. Peter reflects on how relationships and serendipitous moments shaped his path and why he believes AI is more transformative than if aliens landed tomorrow.   [00:04:02] The Six-Year-Old Coder Started coding in 1983 at age six on a Spectrum ZX 80 Beta testing for Microsoft at age 12 Met Tim Berners-Lee at 17 (inventor of HTML and the World Wide Web) Quit high school to become one of the first web developers in the world [00:06:00] Three Technology Paradigm Shifts Built UK version of Yelp before Internet Explorer launched Mid-2000s: Bought first iPhone, closed web business—"This smells the same" Started first mobile agency in Europe, worked with McDonald's, BBC, Microsoft, Apple, Google 2023: Downloaded ChatGPT beta, immediately rolled up current business [00:08:20] Understanding AI: Beyond the Noise Four groups: technical experts, futurists, doomsayers, and prompt sellers Peter's philosophy: "Integrated Living"—AI amplifies human capabilities The power of "and" versus "or"—great family AND business AND health [00:12:20] Why Social Media and Bitcoin Weren't the Same Social media: Puts people in silos and echo chambers Bitcoin: "Most awesome solution waiting for a problem" AI is fundamentally different: A new form of intelligence More impactful than if aliens landed tomorrow [00:16:20] Communication, Not Technical Skill Most people give AI 10-word instructions Would you hand your business to someone with 10 words? AI is coded to be people-pleasing—always says "yes" without context [00:18:00] The Business Handoff Analogy Imagine asking someone to run your business for three weeks with just office keys They'd keep it afloat but create chaos without proper context Same thing happens when you give AI insufficient information [00:20:20] The Critical Test Ask AI: "What did you need to know to do this well?" AI will list 28+ things you didn't provide Instructions should be around 1,000 words Less produces "looks great but is secretly terrible" results [00:23:40] Million-Dollar Relationships: Too Many to Choose Dad gave first computer and introduced him to Tim Berners-Lee Philippe Trush taught discipline and diligence Tom Bell gave first job with no qualifications "Nobody is self-made" [00:25:20] The Series of Unlikely Events Recent deal traced back through networking chain Tony Robbins ticket → networking group → presentation opportunity → major deal Can't predict going forward, only track backward [00:27:00] The Power of Saying Yes "The right advice at the wrong time is still the wrong advice" Until you know your place and purpose, say YES to everything Universe consistently offers gifts we're too busy to see After finding your North Star, THEN start saying no [00:31:40] The Most Aligned He's Ever Felt Everything before was leading to AI Web and mobile: Tools to help humans work better AI's promise: It will do it FOR you Fundamental shift in everything—relationships, health, spirituality [00:34:00] Why Entrepreneurs, Not Big Business Most entrepreneurs are great at their craft but terrible at business AI as the leveler: Handles operations so you can focus on genius Margins can go from 20% to 80-90% [00:38:20] Free Mastermind Offer Weekly calls every Thursday for three years 250 members helping people earn twice as much in half the time peterswain.com/mastermind KEY QUOTES "The right advice at the wrong time is still the wrong advice. Until you know why you are on this planet, say yes to as many things as possible. If it's not gonna kill you and it's not addictive, you should say yes." - Peter Swain "AI is more impactful than if aliens landed tomorrow. This is a new form of intelligence that doesn't need to sleep, eat, rest, or have water." - Peter Swain "An instruction to AI should be around a thousand words. Anything less, you're probably gonna get something that looks great, but is secretly terrible." - Peter Swain "Nobody is self-made. We are all built on the shoulders of great men and women. That doesn't make your achievements any less. It just allows you to honor what's happened." - Peter Swain CONNECT WITH PETER SWAIN

In this week's show Patrick Gray and Adam Boileau discuss the week's cybersecurity news, including: FBI intervenes in Scattered Spider Salesforce leaksite Clop loots Oracle E-Biz deployments Plus so much more data extortion.. At least it's not ransomware … we guess? The US still can't decide who's gonna be in charge of NSA & Cybercom Cambodian scam compounds get sanctioned and $15b in crypto is seized NSO gets sold for pocket-lint-grade money Bugs! Redis CVSS 10, Ivanti, Crowdstrike and… Internet Explorer?! zeroday?! In the wild?!!!? This week's episode is sponsored by Stairwell. Founder Mike Wiacek talks about how Stairwell brings VirusTotal-like visibility to private files, and about integrating the insights that brings into your SOC workflow. This episode is also available on Youtube. Show notes FBI takedown banner appears on BreachForums site as Scattered Spider promotes leak | The Record from Recorded Future News Dozens of Oracle customers impacted by Clop data theft for extortion campaign | CyberScoop Well, Well, Well. It's Another Day. (Oracle E-Business Suite Pre-Auth RCE Chain - CVE-2025-61882) Clop is a Big Fish, But Not Worth Hunting - Risky Business Media ShinyHunters Wage Broad Corporate Extortion Spree – Krebs on Security The company Discord blamed for its recent breach says it wasn't hacked Qantas confirms cybercriminals released stolen customer data | The Record from Recorded Future News Red Hat confirms breach of GitLab instance, which stored company's consulting data | CyberScoop Risky Bulletin: Microsoft revamps Edge's "IE Mode" after zero-day attacks - Risky Business Media Teenagers arrested in England over cyberattack on nursery chain Kido | The Record from Recorded Future News Acting US Cyber Command, NSA chief won't be nominated for the job, sources say | The Record from Recorded Future News Layoffs, reassignments further deplete CISA | Cybersecurity Dive Trump's scandalous directive to AG Pam Bondi reached the public by accident Feds sanction Cambodian conglomerate over cyber scams, seize $15 billion from chairman | The Record from Recorded Future News US Congress committee investigating Musk-owned Starlink over Myanmar scam centres | Myanmar | The Guardian Satellites Are Leaking the World's Secrets: Calls, Texts, Military and Corporate Data | WIRED Netherlands invokes special powers against Chinese-owned semiconductor company Nexperia | The Record from Recorded Future News Spyware maker NSO Group confirms acquisition by US investors | TechCrunch Apple Announces $2 Million Bug Bounty Reward for the Most Dangerous Exploits | WIRED Wiz Finds Critical Redis RCE Vulnerability: CVE‑2025‑49844 | Wiz Blog SonicWall admits attacker accessed all customer firewall configurations stored on cloud portal | CyberScoop SonicWall SSLVPN devices compromised using valid credentials | Cybersecurity Dive Issues Affecting CrowdStrike Falcon Sensor for Windows ZDI Drops 13 Unpatched Ivanti Endpoint Manager Vulnerabilities - SecurityWeek Jaguar Land Rover launches phased restart at factories after cyber-attack | Jaguar Land Rover | The Guardian Windows 10 support ends today — here's who's affected and what you need to do

Scans for ESAFENET CDG V5 We do see some increase in scans for the Chinese secure document management system, ESAFENET. https://isc.sans.edu/diary/Heads%20Up%3A%20Scans%20for%20ESAFENET%20CDG%20V5%20/32364 Investigating targeted payroll pirate attacks affecting US universities Microsoft wrote about how payroll pirates redirect employee paychecks via phishing. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/blog/2025/10/09/investigating-targeted-payroll-pirate-attacks-affecting-us-universities/ Attacks against Edge via IE Mode Microsoft Edge offers an IE legacy mode to support websites created for Internet Explorer. The old JavaScript engine, which is part of this mode, has been abused in recent attacks, and Microsoft will make it more difficult to enable IE Mode to counter these attacks. https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Changes-to-Internet-Explorer-Mode-in-Microsoft-Edge/

(Sermon) Hebrews: Warning Against Falling Away, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Hebrews 5:1-14 Going Astray: Hebrews chapter 5 verses 1-10 Warning Against Falling Away: Hebrews chapter 5 verses 11-14 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) Hebrews: People of God, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Hebrews 4:1-16 A Sabbath Rest for the People of God: Hebrews chapter 4 verses 1-13 Jesus the Great High Priest: Hebrews chapter 4 verses 14-16 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) Hebrews: Warning Against Unbelief 2 of 2, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Hebrews 3:1-19 Jesus Greater Than Moses: Hebrews chapter3 verses 1-6 Warning Against Unbelief: Hebrews chapter 3 verses 7-19 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

The BBC's teletext information service, Ceefax, launched on 23rd September, 1974 - providing the British public with a way to look up headlines, football results and TV listings, some twenty years before the launch of Internet Explorer. Countless National Lottery winners discovered their victories via the analogue service, which was discontinued in 2012. To this day, devotees still share ancient samples of it by uploading old VHS tapes to the web. In this episode, Arion, Rebecca and Olly explain why teletext never caught on in France; revisit the 1,445-episode ‘soap opera' ITV Oracle ran on its rival service; and play a Teletext-style Bamboozle quiz of their very own…  Further Reading: • ‘The Editors: Goodbye Ceefax' (BBC, 2012): https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2012/10/goodbye_ceefax.html • ‘Minitel: The Old New Thing' (WIRED, 2001): https://www.wired.com/2001/04/minitel-the-old-new-thing/ • ‘Pages from Ceefax - Three and a half hours of outdated news, sport and weather' (No Data Available, 2013): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8P5G-GM_g This episode first aired in 2021 Love the show? Support us!  Join 

(Sermon) Hebrews: Warning Against Unbelief, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Hebrews 3:1-19 Jesus Greater Than Moses: Henrews chapter 3 verses 1-6 Warning Against Unbelief: Hebrews chapter 3 verses 7-19 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) Hebrews: Warning to Pay Attention, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Hebrews 2: 1-18 Warning to Pay Attention: Hebrews chapter2 verses 1-4 Jesus Made Fully Human: Hebrews chapter 2 verses 5-18 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) Hebrews: God's Final Word, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Hebrews 1:1-14 God's Final Word: His Son: Hebrews chapter 1 verses 1-4 The Son Superior to Angels: Hebrews chapter 1 verses 5-14 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) Philemon: Love for Holy People, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Philemon 1:1-25 Introduction: Philemon chapter1 verses 1-3 Thanksgiving and Prayer: Philemon chapter 1 verses 4-7 Paul's Plea for Onesimus: Philemon chapter 1 verses 8-25 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

 Welcome to episode 318 of The Cloud Pod, where the forecast is always cloudy! We're going on an adventure! Justin and Ryan have formed a fellowship of the cloud, and they're bringing you all the latest and greatest news from Valinor to Helm's Deep, and Azure to AWS to GCP. We've water issues, some Magic Quadrants, and Aurora updates…but sadly no potatoes. Let's get into it!  Titles we almost went with this week: You’ve Got No Mail: AOL Finally Hangs  Up on Dial-Up Ctrl+Alt+Delete Climate Change H2-Oh No: Your Gmail is Thirsty The Price is Vibe: Kiro’s New    Request-Based Model Spec-tacular Pricing: Kiro Leaves the Waitlist Behind SHA-zam! GitHub Actions Gets Its Security Cape Breaking Bad Actions: GitHub’s Supply Chain Intervention Graph Your Way to Infrastructure Happiness The Tables Have Turned: S3 Gets Its Iceberg Moment Subnet Where It Hurts: GKE Finally Gets IP Address Relief All Your Database Are Belong to Database Center From Droplets to Dollars: DigitalOcean’s AI Pivot Pays Off DigitalOcean Rides the AI Wave to Record Earnings Agent Smith Would Be Proud: Microsoft’s Multi-Agent Matrix Aurora Borealis: A Decade of Database Enlightenment Fifteen Shades of Cloud: AWS’s Unbroken Streak The Fast and the Failover-ious: Aurora Edition Gone in Single-Digit Seconds: AWS’s Speedy Database Recovery Agent 007: License to Secure Your AI A big thanks to this week's sponsor: We're sponsorless! Want to get your brand, company, or service in front of a very enthusiastic group of cloud news seekers? You've come to the right place! Send us an email or hit us up on our Slack channel for more info. General News  01:02 AOL is finally shutting down its dial-up internet service | AP News AOL is discontinuing its dial-up internet service on September 30, 2024, marking the end of a technology that introduced millions to the internet in the 1990s and early 2000s. Census data shows 163,401 US households still used dial-up in 2023, representing 0.13% of homes with internet subscriptions, highlighting the persistence of legacy infrastructure in underserved areas – which is honestly crazy.  Here's hoping that these folks are able to switch to alternatives, like Starlink. This shutdown reflects broader technology lifecycle patterns as companies retire legacy services like Skype, Internet Explorer, and AOL Instant Messenger to focus resources on modern platforms. The transition away from dial-up demonstrates the evolution from telephone-based connectivity to broadband and wireless technologies that now dominate internet access. AOL’s journey from a $164 billion valuation in 2000 to being sold by Verizon in 2021 illustrates the rapid shifts in technology markets and the challenges of ada

(Sermon) Titus: Saved to Do Good, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Titus 3:1-15 Saved in Order to Do Good: Titus chapter 3 verses 1-11 Final Remarkes: Titus chapter 3 verses 12-15 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

This week's episode comes live from Retromessa 2025 in Norway, where we were joined on stage by legendary video game composer Richard Jacques. From creating music on a ZX Spectrum at age 11 to scoring iconic titles like Sonic R, Jet Set Radio, Headhunter, and Mass Effect, Richard shares his incredible journey through Sega's golden years, live orchestras at Abbey Road, and the unexpected afterlife of a song that became a meme.  Richard's website: https://www.richardjacques.com/home Contents: 00:00 - The Week's Retro News Stories  54:42 - Richard Jacques Interview Please visit our amazing sponsors and help to support the show: Liverpool Gaming Market: https://www.liverpoolgamingmarket.com/ Bitmap Books - https://www.bitmapbooks.com Check out PCBWay at https://pcbway.com for all your PCB needs Take your business to the next level today and enjoy 3 months of Shopify for £1/month: https://shopify.co.uk/retrohour We need your help to ensure the future of the podcast, if you'd like to help us with running costs, equipment and hosting, please consider supporting us on Patreon: https://theretrohour.com/support/ https://www.patreon.com/retrohour Get your Retro Hour merchandise: https://bit.ly/33OWBKd Join our Discord channel: https://discord.gg/GQw8qp8 Website: http://theretrohour.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theretrohour/ X: https://twitter.com/retrohouruk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/retrohouruk/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/theretrohour.com Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/theretrohour Show notes Sega Laserdisc Emulation Has Just Taken a Major Leap Forward: https://tinyurl.com/yc3t492v The Settlers II Finally Settles on Amiga 29 Years Late: https://tinyurl.com/y5xjjyvh Modder Builds Windows 98 Handheld Using Original Hardware: https://tinyurl.com/2v7j2y37 Happy 30th Birthday to Internet Explorer: https://tinyurl.com/452j77md Parenting Like It's 1999: https://tinyurl.com/2etae5m7

(Sermon) Titus: Teach Sound Doctrine, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Titus 2:1-15 Doing Good for the Sake of the Gospel: Titus chapter 3 verses 1-15 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) Titus: Rebellious People, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute Titus 1:1-16 Introduction: Titus chapter1 verses 1-4 Appointing Elders Who Love What is Good: Titus chapter 1 verses 5-9 Rebuking Those Who Fail to Do What is Good: Titus chapter 1 verses 10-16 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) 2 Timothy: Judging Living & Dead, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute 2 Timothy 4:1-22 Judging Living & Dead: 2 Timothychapter4 verses 1-8 Personal Remarks: 2 Timothy chapter 4 verses 9-18 Final Greetings: 2 Timothy chapter 4 verses 19-22 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

Microsoft Edge is the default web browser and PDF reader in Windows 11, and a modern and capable successor to the Internet Explorer browser of yesteryear. It's built on the same Chromium web platform that Google uses for Chrome, and it integrates more deeply with Windows and Microsoft online services–most notably Copilot–than other browsers. But Microsoft Edge is also a vector for some of the worst behaviors in Windows 11. For this reason, it's important to configure Microsoft Edge correctly, whether you expect to use it regularly or not. Host: Paul Thurrott Download or subscribe to Hands-On Windows at https://twit.tv/shows/hands-on-windows Want access to the ad-free video and exclusive features? Become a member of Club TWiT today! https://twit.tv/clubtwit Club TWiT members can discuss this episode and leave feedback in the Club TWiT Discord.

Microsoft Edge is the default web browser and PDF reader in Windows 11, and a modern and capable successor to the Internet Explorer browser of yesteryear. It's built on the same Chromium web platform that Google uses for Chrome, and it integrates more deeply with Windows and Microsoft online services–most notably Copilot–than other browsers. But Microsoft Edge is also a vector for some of the worst behaviors in Windows 11. For this reason, it's important to configure Microsoft Edge correctly, whether you expect to use it regularly or not. Host: Paul Thurrott Download or subscribe to Hands-On Windows at https://twit.tv/shows/hands-on-windows Want access to the ad-free video and exclusive features? Become a member of Club TWiT today! https://twit.tv/clubtwit Club TWiT members can discuss this episode and leave feedback in the Club TWiT Discord.

Microsoft Edge is the default web browser and PDF reader in Windows 11, and a modern and capable successor to the Internet Explorer browser of yesteryear. It's built on the same Chromium web platform that Google uses for Chrome, and it integrates more deeply with Windows and Microsoft online services–most notably Copilot–than other browsers. But Microsoft Edge is also a vector for some of the worst behaviors in Windows 11. For this reason, it's important to configure Microsoft Edge correctly, whether you expect to use it regularly or not. Host: Paul Thurrott Download or subscribe to Hands-On Windows at https://twit.tv/shows/hands-on-windows Want access to the ad-free video and exclusive features? Become a member of Club TWiT today! https://twit.tv/clubtwit Club TWiT members can discuss this episode and leave feedback in the Club TWiT Discord.

(Sermon) 2 Timothy: Terrible Times / Last Days, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute 2 Timothy 3:1-17 Terrible Times / Last Days: 2 Timothy chapter 3 verses 1-9 A Final Charge to Timothy: 2 Timothy chapter 3 verses 10-17 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) 2 Timothy: Dealing with False Teachers, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute 2 Timothy 2:1-26 The Appeal Renewed: 2 Timothy chapter 2 verses 1-13 Dealing With False Teachers: 2 Timothy chapter 2 verses 14-26 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) 2 Timothy: Loyalty & Disloyalty, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute 2 Timothy 1: 1-18 Introduction: 2 Timothy chapter 1 verses 1-2 Thanksgiving: 2 Timothy chapter 1 verses 3-5 Appeal for Loyalty to Paul and the Gospel: 2 Timothy chapter 1 verses 6-14 Examples of Disloyalty and Loyalty: 2 Timothy chapter 1 verses 15-18 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) 1 Timothy: False Teachers & Love of Money, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute 1 Timothy 6:1-21 Introduction: 1 Timothy chapter 6 verses 1-2 False Teachers and the Love of Money: 1 Timothy chapter 6 verses 3-10 Final Charge to Timothy: 1 Timothy chapter 6 verses 11-21 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) 1 Timothy: Widows, Elders & Slaves, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute 1 Timothy 5:1-25 Widows, Elders and Slaves: 1 Timothy chapter 5 verses 1-25 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

(Sermon) 1 Timothy: In Later Times, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute 1 Timothy 4:1-16 In Later Times: 1 Timothy chapter4 verses 1-16 (Resources) YouTube: Apologia Studios & Church w/ Pastor Jeff Durbin apologiastudios.com; Voddie Baucham ; Dr. R C. Sproul: Ligonier Ministries; Ray Comfort-Living Waters livingwaters.com; Ken Ham-Answers In Genesis answersingenesis.org; Wall Builders w/ David Barton wallbuliders.com; Dr. Walter Martin waltermartin.org; Bible Education Institute is on Video Plarforms: YouTube & Rumble; Podcast Platforms: Stitcher, Apple, Spotify, Amazon , Audible, Amazon Music, Facebook, Overcast,, Chrome, gPodder, Firefox, Safari,, iTunes, Alexia, Podbean, Internet Explorer & Podcast Addict, Listen Notes, Luminary Podcast, Player FM& others. Website: 5dbe1182e5831.site123.me Email: bibleeducationinstitute@gmail.com Donate: We greatly appreciate your donations to help reach as many people as possible. Thank you Please copy / paste and put on your computer or phone top search engine. https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=TYN64GZ6YLD7C Wanted: The Brave, Joshua 1:9, Kirk Cameron https://youtu.be/fBTv07MjwAA Watch "Christians Will Win Down Here | Jeff Durbin" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/live/IZ6EqLug0Sc?feature=share (Sermon) How to Save a Nation, Rev. Henry Kelly, Bible Education Institute https://youtu.be/bEyNvfRGQyc

Le mercredi 15 juin 2022, le géant de l'informatique américain Microsoft a débranché Internet Explorer, son navigateur historique. A la fin des années 90 et durant les années 2000 il était pourtant LA référence en la matière. Il a même concentré jusqu'à 95% du trafic mondial en 2004 contre moins d'un 1% avant sa fermeture selon le site irlandais StatCounter. L'une des premières explications à la fin d'Internet explorer est juridique. Créé en 1995, il a alors pour principal concurrent Netscape. Pour le devancer, Microsoft l'installe par défaut sur tous ses ordinateurs. Quand son déclin a-t-il commencé ? Comment l'expliquer ? Ses concurrents ont-ils eu raison du navigateur ?  ⁠Ecoutez la suite de cet épisode de "Maintenant vous savez".⁠ Un podcast écrit et réalisé par Jules Hauss. Première diffusion : 17 juin 2022 A écouter aussi : ⁠Qu'est-ce que la méthode Loverboy, la technique de proxénétisme utilisée par le masculiniste Andrew Tate ?⁠ ⁠A quelle fréquence devons-nous laver nos draps ?⁠ Retrouvez tous les épisodes de ⁠"Maintenant vous savez".⁠ Suivez Bababam sur ⁠Instagram⁠. ⁠Les ventes privées en ligne sont-elles réellement avantageuses ?⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Microsoft Patch Tuesday Microsoft patched 70-78 vulnerabilities (depending on how you count them). Five of these vulnerabilities are already being exploited. In particular, a remote code execution vulnerability in the scripting engine should be taken seriously. It requires the Microsoft Edge browser to run in Internet Explorer mode. https://isc.sans.edu/diary/Microsoft%20Patch%20Tuesday%3A%20May%202025/31946 Security Advisory Ivanti Endpoint Manager Mobile (EPMM) May 2025 (CVE-2025-4427 and CVE-2025-4428) Ivanti patched an authentication bypass vulnerability and a remote code execution vulnerability. The authentication bypass can exploit the remote code execution vulnerability without authenticating first. https://forums.ivanti.com/s/article/Security-Advisory-Ivanti-Endpoint-Manager-Mobile-EPMM?language=en_US Fortinet Patches Exploited Vulnerability in API (CVE-2025-32756) Fortinet patched an already exploited stack-based buffer overflow vulnerability in the API of multiple Fortinet products. The vulnerability is exploited via crafted HTTP requests. https://fortiguard.fortinet.com/psirt/FG-IR-25-254

Mayday. Mayday. May Patch Tuesday? This month's episode dives into four key Windows vulnerabilities you need to address — from scripting engine memory corruption in legacy Internet Explorer components to remote code execution risks in Remote Desktop and Visual Studio. Ryan Braunstein and Mat Lee unpack what each CVE means for your environment, how attackers might exploit them, and what you can do to stay secure. If your org still leans on that one app tied to Internet Explorer, relies heavily on RDP, or builds with Visual Studio, this one's for you.

There’s a concept in business called the first-mover advantage. Basically, it means that if you’re the first company with a successful product in a new market, you have the opportunity to dominate the market and fend off rivals. But that advantage can be short-lived. Take Netscape Navigator, the first popular commercial web browser. Microsoft entered the field with Internet Explorer, and it wasn’t long before Navigator crashed. In AI chatbots, two of the first movers are OpenAI and Anthropic. But recently the Chinese company DeepSeek made a splash with an AI chatbot that it reportedly developed for a fraction of what its competitors have spent. Marketplace’s Stephanie Hughes spoke with historian Margaret O’Mara, author of the book “The Code: Silicon Valley and the Remaking of America,” about whether America’s artificial intelligence industry should be worried about newcomers like DeepSeek.

There’s a concept in business called the first-mover advantage. Basically, it means that if you’re the first company with a successful product in a new market, you have the opportunity to dominate the market and fend off rivals. But that advantage can be short-lived. Take Netscape Navigator, the first popular commercial web browser. Microsoft entered the field with Internet Explorer, and it wasn’t long before Navigator crashed. In AI chatbots, two of the first movers are OpenAI and Anthropic. But recently the Chinese company DeepSeek made a splash with an AI chatbot that it reportedly developed for a fraction of what its competitors have spent. Marketplace’s Stephanie Hughes spoke with historian Margaret O’Mara, author of the book “The Code: Silicon Valley and the Remaking of America,” about whether America’s artificial intelligence industry should be worried about newcomers like DeepSeek.

ATIS Is calling clear and a million  for Episode 11  SEND IT!On this episode Jim Dells from "The Internet Explorer's" Podcast joins me in the flight deck.  Our in flight beverage this time consisted of a nice cup of Black Rifle Coffee (Which I should probably start posting a pic of)Initially on takeoff, I expected me and Jim to jump right into his Podcast and share what drove him to his passion. However, as we reached cruise altitude I realized our conversation was going to get alot deeper....  It turns out we share alot commonalties in our backgrounds and upbringing, and its these things that forged us into the men we are.  Jim talks alot about his initial time as an enlisted sailor, much like me, separating and learning what the  "REAL" college experience is all about and finally making the move to come back to the military as an Officer and Leader and the trials and tribulations we've faced along the way.In our initial descent, we do finally delve into Jim's podcast and talk about its unique nature of introducing people to the paranormal and other oddities that might not always breach the mainstream. His lighthearted approach makes pretty much any topic inviting! From Underwater civilizations to making a car fly with duct tape!As we come in for our approach to landing we drop the gear to discuss the "why" to Jim's podcast and what he hopes to get out of it..  Check out the links below to subscribe and follow Jim!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/48VGSnZJvAwbqLlfJiBDv7?si=ba9d20e1cf2b4c61Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-internet-explorers-podcast/id1788706938Website: https://theinternetexplorerspodcast.comINTRO MUSIC: Electric Butterfly-  Bill Barlow 2025OUTRO MUSIC:Chess- Phononauts 2024Socials:Email: TheXennialAviator@gmail.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61555711167875Instagram: @thexennialaviatorTiktok:@thexennialaviatorDONATE and Buy me a Beer! I'll give youa shoutout on the next episode! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thexennialaviator

Welcome back everyone for episode 11!! I made a new internet friend!   This week I am joined by Jim Dells of "The Internet Explorer's Podcast".  Initially I planned on spending quite some time discussing his show (which we do). But aside from sharing common interests in podcasting, Jim is also a fellow Navy Officer as well! So we have a very awesome discussion about our similar backgrounds, leadership and our love of service.  And then we jump face first into the weirdness of the paranormal and conspiracy theories in the unique and light hearted way that only Jim could deliver!   One of my favorite episodes i've recorded to date!!Socials:Email: TheXennialAviator@gmail.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61555711167875Instagram: @thexennialaviatorTiktok:@thexennialaviatorDONATE and Buy me a Beer! I'll give youa shoutout on the next episode! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thexennialaviator

If you're in SF, join us tomorrow for a fun meetup at CodeGen Night!If you're in NYC, join us for AI Engineer Summit! The Agent Engineering track is now sold out, but 25 tickets remain for AI Leadership and 5 tickets for the workshops. You can see the full schedule of speakers and workshops at https://ai.engineer!It's exceedingly hard to introduce someone like Bret Taylor. We could recite his Wikipedia page, or his extensive work history through Silicon Valley's greatest companies, but everyone else already does that.As a podcast by AI engineers for AI engineers, we had the opportunity to do something a little different. We wanted to dig into what Bret sees from his vantage point at the top of our industry for the last 2 decades, and how that explains the rise of the AI Architect at Sierra, the leading conversational AI/CX platform.“Across our customer base, we are seeing a new role emerge - the role of the AI architect. These leaders are responsible for helping define, manage and evolve their company's AI agent over time. They come from a variety of both technical and business backgrounds, and we think that every company will have one or many AI architects managing their AI agent and related experience.”In our conversation, Bret Taylor confirms the Paul Buchheit legend that he rewrote Google Maps in a weekend, armed with only the help of a then-nascent Google Closure Compiler and no other modern tooling. But what we find remarkable is that he was the PM of Maps, not an engineer, though of course he still identifies as one. We find this theme recurring throughout Bret's career and worldview. We think it is plain as day that AI leadership will have to be hands-on and technical, especially when the ground is shifting as quickly as it is today:“There's a lot of power in combining product and engineering into as few people as possible… few great things have been created by committee.”“If engineering is an order taking organization for product you can sometimes make meaningful things, but rarely will you create extremely well crafted breakthrough products. Those tend to be small teams who deeply understand the customer need that they're solving, who have a maniacal focus on outcomes.”“And I think the reason why is if you look at like software as a service five years ago, maybe you can have a separation of product and engineering because most software as a service created five years ago. I wouldn't say there's like a lot of technological breakthroughs required for most business applications. And if you're making expense reporting software or whatever, it's useful… You kind of know how databases work, how to build auto scaling with your AWS cluster, whatever, you know, it's just, you're just applying best practices to yet another problem. "When you have areas like the early days of mobile development or the early days of interactive web applications, which I think Google Maps and Gmail represent, or now AI agents, you're in this constant conversation with what the requirements of your customers and stakeholders are and all the different people interacting with it and the capabilities of the technology. And it's almost impossible to specify the requirements of a product when you're not sure of the limitations of the technology itself.”This is the first time the difference between technical leadership for “normal” software and for “AI” software was articulated this clearly for us, and we'll be thinking a lot about this going forward. We left a lot of nuggets in the conversation, so we hope you'll just dive in with us (and thank Bret for joining the pod!)Timestamps* 00:00:02 Introductions and Bret Taylor's background* 00:01:23 Bret's experience at Stanford and the dot-com era* 00:04:04 The story of rewriting Google Maps backend* 00:11:06 Early days of interactive web applications at Google* 00:15:26 Discussion on product management and engineering roles* 00:21:00 AI and the future of software development* 00:26:42 Bret's approach to identifying customer needs and building AI companies* 00:32:09 The evolution of business models in the AI era* 00:41:00 The future of programming languages and software development* 00:49:38 Challenges in precisely communicating human intent to machines* 00:56:44 Discussion on Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) and its impact* 01:08:51 The future of agent-to-agent communication* 01:14:03 Bret's involvement in the OpenAI leadership crisis* 01:22:11 OpenAI's relationship with Microsoft* 01:23:23 OpenAI's mission and priorities* 01:27:40 Bret's guiding principles for career choices* 01:29:12 Brief discussion on pasta-making* 01:30:47 How Bret keeps up with AI developments* 01:32:15 Exciting research directions in AI* 01:35:19 Closing remarks and hiring at Sierra Transcript[00:02:05] Introduction and Guest Welcome[00:02:05] Alessio: Hey everyone, welcome to the Latent Space Podcast. This is Alessio, partner and CTO at Decibel Partners, and I'm joined by my co host swyx, founder of smol.ai.[00:02:17] swyx: Hey, and today we're super excited to have Bret Taylor join us. Welcome. Thanks for having me. It's a little unreal to have you in the studio.[00:02:25] swyx: I've read about you so much over the years, like even before. Open AI effectively. I mean, I use Google Maps to get here. So like, thank you for everything that you've done. Like, like your story history, like, you know, I think people can find out what your greatest hits have been.[00:02:40] Bret Taylor's Early Career and Education[00:02:40] swyx: How do you usually like to introduce yourself when, you know, you talk about, you summarize your career, like, how do you look at yourself?[00:02:47] Bret: Yeah, it's a great question. You know, we, before we went on the mics here, we're talking about the audience for this podcast being more engineering. And I do think depending on the audience, I'll introduce myself differently because I've had a lot of [00:03:00] corporate and board roles. I probably self identify as an engineer more than anything else though.[00:03:04] Bret: So even when I was. Salesforce, I was coding on the weekends. So I think of myself as an engineer and then all the roles that I do in my career sort of start with that just because I do feel like engineering is sort of a mindset and how I approach most of my life. So I'm an engineer first and that's how I describe myself.[00:03:24] Bret: You majored in computer[00:03:25] swyx: science, like 1998. And, and I was high[00:03:28] Bret: school, actually my, my college degree was Oh, two undergrad. Oh, three masters. Right. That old.[00:03:33] swyx: Yeah. I mean, no, I was going, I was going like 1998 to 2003, but like engineering wasn't as, wasn't a thing back then. Like we didn't have the title of senior engineer, you know, kind of like, it was just.[00:03:44] swyx: You were a programmer, you were a developer, maybe. What was it like in Stanford? Like, what was that feeling like? You know, was it, were you feeling like on the cusp of a great computer revolution? Or was it just like a niche, you know, interest at the time?[00:03:57] Stanford and the Dot-Com Bubble[00:03:57] Bret: Well, I was at Stanford, as you said, from 1998 to [00:04:00] 2002.[00:04:02] Bret: 1998 was near the peak of the dot com bubble. So. This is back in the day where most people that they're coding in the computer lab, just because there was these sun microsystems, Unix boxes there that most of us had to do our assignments on. And every single day there was a. com like buying pizza for everybody.[00:04:20] Bret: I didn't have to like, I got. Free food, like my first two years of university and then the dot com bubble burst in the middle of my college career. And so by the end there was like tumbleweed going to the job fair, you know, it was like, cause it was hard to describe unless you were there at the time, the like level of hype and being a computer science major at Stanford was like, A thousand opportunities.[00:04:45] Bret: And then, and then when I left, it was like Microsoft, IBM.[00:04:49] Joining Google and Early Projects[00:04:49] Bret: And then the two startups that I applied to were VMware and Google. And I ended up going to Google in large part because a woman named Marissa Meyer, who had been a teaching [00:05:00] assistant when I was, what was called a section leader, which was like a junior teaching assistant kind of for one of the big interest.[00:05:05] Bret: Yes. Classes. She had gone there. And she was recruiting me and I knew her and it was sort of felt safe, you know, like, I don't know. I thought about it much, but it turned out to be a real blessing. I realized like, you know, you always want to think you'd pick Google if given the option, but no one knew at the time.[00:05:20] Bret: And I wonder if I'd graduated in like 1999 where I've been like, mom, I just got a job at pets. com. It's good. But you know, at the end I just didn't have any options. So I was like, do I want to go like make kernel software at VMware? Do I want to go build search at Google? And I chose Google. 50, 50 ball.[00:05:36] Bret: I'm not really a 50, 50 ball. So I feel very fortunate in retrospect that the economy collapsed because in some ways it forced me into like one of the greatest companies of all time, but I kind of lucked into it, I think.[00:05:47] The Google Maps Rewrite Story[00:05:47] Alessio: So the famous story about Google is that you rewrote the Google maps back in, in one week after the map quest quest maps acquisition, what was the story there?[00:05:57] Alessio: Is it. Actually true. Is it [00:06:00] being glorified? Like how, how did that come to be? And is there any detail that maybe Paul hasn't shared before?[00:06:06] Bret: It's largely true, but I'll give the color commentary. So it was actually the front end, not the back end, but it turns out for Google maps, the front end was sort of the hard part just because Google maps was.[00:06:17] Bret: Largely the first ish kind of really interactive web application, say first ish. I think Gmail certainly was though Gmail, probably a lot of people then who weren't engineers probably didn't appreciate its level of interactivity. It was just fast, but. Google maps, because you could drag the map and it was sort of graphical.[00:06:38] Bret: My, it really in the mainstream, I think, was it a map[00:06:41] swyx: quest back then that was, you had the arrows up and down, it[00:06:44] Bret: was up and down arrows. Each map was a single image and you just click left and then wait for a few seconds to the new map to let it was really small too, because generating a big image was kind of expensive on computers that day.[00:06:57] Bret: So Google maps was truly innovative in that [00:07:00] regard. The story on it. There was a small company called where two technologies started by two Danish brothers, Lars and Jens Rasmussen, who are two of my closest friends now. They had made a windows app called expedition, which had beautiful maps. Even in 2000.[00:07:18] Bret: For whenever we acquired or sort of acquired their company, Windows software was not particularly fashionable, but they were really passionate about mapping and we had made a local search product that was kind of middling in terms of popularity, sort of like a yellow page of search product. So we wanted to really go into mapping.[00:07:36] Bret: We'd started working on it. Their small team seemed passionate about it. So we're like, come join us. We can build this together.[00:07:42] Technical Challenges and Innovations[00:07:42] Bret: It turned out to be a great blessing that they had built a windows app because you're less technically constrained when you're doing native code than you are building a web browser, particularly back then when there weren't really interactive web apps and it ended up.[00:07:56] Bret: Changing the level of quality that we [00:08:00] wanted to hit with the app because we were shooting for something that felt like a native windows application. So it was a really good fortune that we sort of, you know, their unusual technical choices turned out to be the greatest blessing. So we spent a lot of time basically saying, how can you make a interactive draggable map in a web browser?[00:08:18] Bret: How do you progressively load, you know, new map tiles, you know, as you're dragging even things like down in the weeds of the browser at the time, most browsers like Internet Explorer, which was dominant at the time would only load two images at a time from the same domain. So we ended up making our map tile servers have like.[00:08:37] Bret: Forty different subdomains so we could load maps and parallels like lots of hacks. I'm happy to go into as much as like[00:08:44] swyx: HTTP connections and stuff.[00:08:46] Bret: They just like, there was just maximum parallelism of two. And so if you had a map, set of map tiles, like eight of them, so So we just, we were down in the weeds of the browser anyway.[00:08:56] Bret: So it was lots of plumbing. I can, I know a lot more about browsers than [00:09:00] most people, but then by the end of it, it was fairly, it was a lot of duct tape on that code. If you've ever done an engineering project where you're not really sure the path from point A to point B, it's almost like. Building a house by building one room at a time.[00:09:14] Bret: The, there's not a lot of architectural cohesion at the end. And then we acquired a company called Keyhole, which became Google earth, which was like that three, it was a native windows app as well, separate app, great app, but with that, we got licenses to all this satellite imagery. And so in August of 2005, we added.[00:09:33] Bret: Satellite imagery to Google Maps, which added even more complexity in the code base. And then we decided we wanted to support Safari. There was no mobile phones yet. So Safari was this like nascent browser on, on the Mac. And it turns out there's like a lot of decisions behind the scenes, sort of inspired by this windows app, like heavy use of XML and XSLT and all these like.[00:09:54] Bret: Technologies that were like briefly fashionable in the early two thousands and everyone hates now for good [00:10:00] reason. And it turns out that all of the XML functionality and Internet Explorer wasn't supporting Safari. So people are like re implementing like XML parsers. And it was just like this like pile of s**t.[00:10:11] Bret: And I had to say a s**t on your part. Yeah, of[00:10:12] Alessio: course.[00:10:13] Bret: So. It went from this like beautifully elegant application that everyone was proud of to something that probably had hundreds of K of JavaScript, which sounds like nothing. Now we're talking like people have modems, you know, not all modems, but it was a big deal.[00:10:29] Bret: So it was like slow. It took a while to load and just, it wasn't like a great code base. Like everything was fragile. So I just got. Super frustrated by it. And then one weekend I did rewrite all of it. And at the time the word JSON hadn't been coined yet too, just to give you a sense. So it's all XML.[00:10:47] swyx: Yeah.[00:10:47] Bret: So we used what is now you would call JSON, but I just said like, let's use eval so that we can parse the data fast. And, and again, that's, it would literally as JSON, but at the time there was no name for it. So we [00:11:00] just said, let's. Pass on JavaScript from the server and eval it. And then somebody just refactored the whole thing.[00:11:05] Bret: And, and it wasn't like I was some genius. It was just like, you know, if you knew everything you wished you had known at the beginning and I knew all the functionality, cause I was the primary, one of the primary authors of the JavaScript. And I just like, I just drank a lot of coffee and just stayed up all weekend.[00:11:22] Bret: And then I, I guess I developed a bit of reputation and no one knew about this for a long time. And then Paul who created Gmail and I ended up starting a company with him too, after all of this told this on a podcast and now it's large, but it's largely true. I did rewrite it and it, my proudest thing.[00:11:38] Bret: And I think JavaScript people appreciate this. Like the un G zipped bundle size for all of Google maps. When I rewrote, it was 20 K G zipped. It was like much smaller for the entire application. It went down by like 10 X. So. What happened on Google? Google is a pretty mainstream company. And so like our usage is shot up because it turns out like it's faster.[00:11:57] Bret: Just being faster is worth a lot of [00:12:00] percentage points of growth at a scale of Google. So how[00:12:03] swyx: much modern tooling did you have? Like test suites no compilers.[00:12:07] Bret: Actually, that's not true. We did it one thing. So I actually think Google, I, you can. Download it. There's a, Google has a closure compiler, a closure compiler.[00:12:15] Bret: I don't know if anyone still uses it. It's gone. Yeah. Yeah. It's sort of gone out of favor. Yeah. Well, even until recently it was better than most JavaScript minifiers because it was more like it did a lot more renaming of variables and things. Most people use ES build now just cause it's fast and closure compilers built on Java and super slow and stuff like that.[00:12:37] Bret: But, so we did have that, that was it. Okay.[00:12:39] The Evolution of Web Applications[00:12:39] Bret: So and that was treated internally, you know, it was a really interesting time at Google at the time because there's a lot of teams working on fairly advanced JavaScript when no one was. So Google suggest, which Kevin Gibbs was the tech lead for, was the first kind of type ahead, autocomplete, I believe in a web browser, and now it's just pervasive in search boxes that you sort of [00:13:00] see a type ahead there.[00:13:01] Bret: I mean, chat, dbt[00:13:01] swyx: just added it. It's kind of like a round trip.[00:13:03] Bret: Totally. No, it's now pervasive as a UI affordance, but that was like Kevin's 20 percent project. And then Gmail, Paul you know, he tells the story better than anyone, but he's like, you know, basically was scratching his own itch, but what was really neat about it is email, because it's such a productivity tool, just needed to be faster.[00:13:21] Bret: So, you know, he was scratching his own itch of just making more stuff work on the client side. And then we, because of Lars and Yen sort of like setting the bar of this windows app or like we need our maps to be draggable. So we ended up. Not only innovate in terms of having a big sync, what would be called a single page application today, but also all the graphical stuff you know, we were crashing Firefox, like it was going out of style because, you know, when you make a document object model with the idea that it's a document and then you layer on some JavaScript and then we're essentially abusing all of this, it just was running into code paths that were not.[00:13:56] Bret: Well, it's rotten, you know, at this time. And so it was [00:14:00] super fun. And, and, you know, in the building you had, so you had compilers, people helping minify JavaScript just practically, but there is a great engineering team. So they were like, that's why Closure Compiler is so good. It was like a. Person who actually knew about programming languages doing it, not just, you know, writing regular expressions.[00:14:17] Bret: And then the team that is now the Chrome team believe, and I, I don't know this for a fact, but I'm pretty sure Google is the main contributor to Firefox for a long time in terms of code. And a lot of browser people were there. So every time we would crash Firefox, we'd like walk up two floors and say like, what the hell is going on here?[00:14:35] Bret: And they would load their browser, like in a debugger. And we could like figure out exactly what was breaking. And you can't change the code, right? Cause it's the browser. It's like slow, right? I mean, slow to update. So, but we could figure out exactly where the bug was and then work around it in our JavaScript.[00:14:52] Bret: So it was just like new territory. Like so super, super fun time, just like a lot of, a lot of great engineers figuring out [00:15:00] new things. And And now, you know, the word, this term is no longer in fashion, but the word Ajax, which was asynchronous JavaScript and XML cause I'm telling you XML, but see the word XML there, to be fair, the way you made HTTP requests from a client to server was this.[00:15:18] Bret: Object called XML HTTP request because Microsoft and making Outlook web access back in the day made this and it turns out to have nothing to do with XML. It's just a way of making HTTP requests because XML was like the fashionable thing. It was like that was the way you, you know, you did it. But the JSON came out of that, you know, and then a lot of the best practices around building JavaScript applications is pre React.[00:15:44] Bret: I think React was probably the big conceptual step forward that we needed. Even my first social network after Google, we used a lot of like HTML injection and. Making real time updates was still very hand coded and it's really neat when you [00:16:00] see conceptual breakthroughs like react because it's, I just love those things where it's like obvious once you see it, but it's so not obvious until you do.[00:16:07] Bret: And actually, well, I'm sure we'll get into AI, but I, I sort of feel like we'll go through that evolution with AI agents as well that I feel like we're missing a lot of the core abstractions that I think in 10 years we'll be like, gosh, how'd you make agents? Before that, you know, but it was kind of that early days of web applications.[00:16:22] swyx: There's a lot of contenders for the reactive jobs of of AI, but no clear winner yet. I would say one thing I was there for, I mean, there's so much we can go into there. You just covered so much.[00:16:32] Product Management and Engineering Synergy[00:16:32] swyx: One thing I just, I just observe is that I think the early Google days had this interesting mix of PM and engineer, which I think you are, you didn't, you didn't wait for PM to tell you these are my, this is my PRD.[00:16:42] swyx: This is my requirements.[00:16:44] mix: Oh,[00:16:44] Bret: okay.[00:16:45] swyx: I wasn't technically a software engineer. I mean,[00:16:48] Bret: by title, obviously. Right, right, right.[00:16:51] swyx: It's like a blend. And I feel like these days, product is its own discipline and its own lore and own industry and engineering is its own thing. And there's this process [00:17:00] that happens and they're kind of separated, but you don't produce as good of a product as if they were the same person.[00:17:06] swyx: And I'm curious, you know, if, if that, if that sort of resonates in, in, in terms of like comparing early Google versus modern startups that you see out there,[00:17:16] Bret: I certainly like wear a lot of hats. So, you know, sort of biased in this, but I really agree that there's a lot of power and combining product design engineering into as few people as possible because, you know few great things have been created by committee, you know, and so.[00:17:33] Bret: If engineering is an order taking organization for product you can sometimes make meaningful things, but rarely will you create extremely well crafted breakthrough products. Those tend to be small teams who deeply understand the customer need that they're solving, who have a. Maniacal focus on outcomes.[00:17:53] Bret: And I think the reason why it's, I think for some areas, if you look at like software as a service five years ago, maybe you can have a [00:18:00] separation of product and engineering because most software as a service created five years ago. I wouldn't say there's like a lot of like. Technological breakthroughs required for most, you know, business applications.[00:18:11] Bret: And if you're making expense reporting software or whatever, it's useful. I don't mean to be dismissive of expense reporting software, but you probably just want to understand like, what are the requirements of the finance department? What are the requirements of an individual file expense report? Okay.[00:18:25] Bret: Go implement that. And you kind of know how web applications are implemented. You kind of know how to. How databases work, how to build auto scaling with your AWS cluster, whatever, you know, it's just, you're just applying best practices to yet another problem when you have areas like the early days of mobile development or the early days of interactive web applications, which I think Google Maps and Gmail represent, or now AI agents, you're in this constant conversation with what the requirements of your customers and stakeholders are and all the different people interacting with it.[00:18:58] Bret: And the capabilities of the [00:19:00] technology. And it's almost impossible to specify the requirements of a product when you're not sure of the limitations of the technology itself. And that's why I use the word conversation. It's not literal. That's sort of funny to use that word in the age of conversational AI.[00:19:15] Bret: You're constantly sort of saying, like, ideally, you could sprinkle some magic AI pixie dust and solve all the world's problems, but it's not the way it works. And it turns out that actually, I'll just give an interesting example.[00:19:26] AI Agents and Modern Tooling[00:19:26] Bret: I think most people listening probably use co pilots to code like Cursor or Devon or Microsoft Copilot or whatever.[00:19:34] Bret: Most of those tools are, they're remarkable. I'm, I couldn't, you know, imagine development without them now, but they're not autonomous yet. Like I wouldn't let it just write most code without my interactively inspecting it. We just are somewhere between it's an amazing co pilot and it's an autonomous software engineer.[00:19:53] Bret: As a product manager, like your aspirations for what the product is are like kind of meaningful. But [00:20:00] if you're a product person, yeah, of course you'd say it should be autonomous. You should click a button and program should come out the other side. The requirements meaningless. Like what matters is like, what is based on the like very nuanced limitations of the technology.[00:20:14] Bret: What is it capable of? And then how do you maximize the leverage? It gives a software engineering team, given those very nuanced trade offs. Coupled with the fact that those nuanced trade offs are changing more rapidly than any technology in my memory, meaning every few months you'll have new models with new capabilities.[00:20:34] Bret: So how do you construct a product that can absorb those new capabilities as rapidly as possible as well? That requires such a combination of technical depth and understanding the customer that you really need more integration. Of product design and engineering. And so I think it's why with these big technology waves, I think startups have a bit of a leg up relative to incumbents because they [00:21:00] tend to be sort of more self actualized in terms of just like bringing those disciplines closer together.[00:21:06] Bret: And in particular, I think entrepreneurs, the proverbial full stack engineers, you know, have a leg up as well because. I think most breakthroughs happen when you have someone who can understand those extremely nuanced technical trade offs, have a vision for a product. And then in the process of building it, have that, as I said, like metaphorical conversation with the technology, right?[00:21:30] Bret: Gosh, I ran into a technical limit that I didn't expect. It's not just like changing that feature. You might need to refactor the whole product based on that. And I think that's, that it's particularly important right now. So I don't, you know, if you, if you're building a big ERP system, probably there's a great reason to have product and engineering.[00:21:51] Bret: I think in general, the disciplines are there for a reason. I think when you're dealing with something as nuanced as the like technologies, like large language models today, there's a ton of [00:22:00] advantage of having. Individuals or organizations that integrate the disciplines more formally.[00:22:05] Alessio: That makes a lot of sense.[00:22:06] Alessio: I've run a lot of engineering teams in the past, and I think the product versus engineering tension has always been more about effort than like whether or not the feature is buildable. But I think, yeah, today you see a lot more of like. Models actually cannot do that. And I think the most interesting thing is on the startup side, people don't yet know where a lot of the AI value is going to accrue.[00:22:26] Alessio: So you have this rush of people building frameworks, building infrastructure, layered things, but we don't really know the shape of the compute. I'm curious that Sierra, like how you thought about building an house, a lot of the tooling for evals or like just, you know, building the agents and all of that.[00:22:41] Alessio: Versus how you see some of the startup opportunities that is maybe still out there.[00:22:46] Bret: We build most of our tooling in house at Sierra, not all. It's, we don't, it's not like not invented here syndrome necessarily, though, maybe slightly guilty of that in some ways, but because we're trying to build a platform [00:23:00] that's in Dorian, you know, we really want to have control over our own destiny.[00:23:03] Bret: And you had made a comment earlier that like. We're still trying to figure out who like the reactive agents are and the jury is still out. I would argue it hasn't been created yet. I don't think the jury is still out to go use that metaphor. We're sort of in the jQuery era of agents, not the react era.[00:23:19] Bret: And, and that's like a throwback for people listening,[00:23:22] swyx: we shouldn't rush it. You know?[00:23:23] Bret: No, yeah, that's my point is. And so. Because we're trying to create an enduring company at Sierra that outlives us, you know, I'm not sure we want to like attach our cart to some like to a horse where it's not clear that like we've figured out and I actually want as a company, we're trying to enable just at a high level and I'll, I'll quickly go back to tech at Sierra, we help consumer brands build customer facing AI agents.[00:23:48] Bret: So. Everyone from Sonos to ADT home security to Sirius XM, you know, if you call them on the phone and AI will pick up with you, you know, chat with them on the Sirius XM homepage. It's an AI agent called Harmony [00:24:00] that they've built on our platform. We're what are the contours of what it means for someone to build an end to end complete customer experience with AI with conversational AI.[00:24:09] Bret: You know, we really want to dive into the deep end of, of all the trade offs to do it. You know, where do you use fine tuning? Where do you string models together? You know, where do you use reasoning? Where do you use generation? How do you use reasoning? How do you express the guardrails of an agentic process?[00:24:25] Bret: How do you impose determinism on a fundamentally non deterministic technology? There's just a lot of really like as an important design space. And I could sit here and tell you, we have the best approach. Every entrepreneur will, you know. But I hope that in two years, we look back at our platform and laugh at how naive we were, because that's the pace of change broadly.[00:24:45] Bret: If you talk about like the startup opportunities, I'm not wholly skeptical of tools companies, but I'm fairly skeptical. There's always an exception for every role, but I believe that certainly there's a big market for [00:25:00] frontier models, but largely for companies with huge CapEx budgets. So. Open AI and Microsoft's Anthropic and Amazon Web Services, Google Cloud XAI, which is very well capitalized now, but I think the, the idea that a company can make money sort of pre training a foundation model is probably not true.[00:25:20] Bret: It's hard to, you're competing with just, you know, unreasonably large CapEx budgets. And I just like the cloud infrastructure market, I think will be largely there. I also really believe in the applications of AI. And I define that not as like building agents or things like that. I define it much more as like, you're actually solving a problem for a business.[00:25:40] Bret: So it's what Harvey is doing in legal profession or what cursor is doing for software engineering or what we're doing for customer experience and customer service. The reason I believe in that is I do think that in the age of AI, what's really interesting about software is it can actually complete a task.[00:25:56] Bret: It can actually do a job, which is very different than the value proposition of [00:26:00] software was to ancient history two years ago. And as a consequence, I think the way you build a solution and For a domain is very different than you would have before, which means that it's not obvious, like the incumbent incumbents have like a leg up, you know, necessarily, they certainly have some advantages, but there's just such a different form factor, you know, for providing a solution and it's just really valuable.[00:26:23] Bret: You know, it's. Like just think of how much money cursor is saving software engineering teams or the alternative, how much revenue it can produce tool making is really challenging. If you look at the cloud market, just as a analog, there are a lot of like interesting tools, companies, you know, Confluent, Monetized Kafka, Snowflake, Hortonworks, you know, there's a, there's a bunch of them.[00:26:48] Bret: A lot of them, you know, have that mix of sort of like like confluence or have the open source or open core or whatever you call it. I, I, I'm not an expert in this area. You know, I do think [00:27:00] that developers are fickle. I think that in the tool space, I probably like. Default towards open source being like the area that will win.[00:27:09] Bret: It's hard to build a company around this and then you end up with companies sort of built around open source to that can work. Don't get me wrong, but I just think that it's nowadays the tools are changing so rapidly that I'm like, not totally skeptical of tool makers, but I just think that open source will broadly win, but I think that the CapEx required for building frontier models is such that it will go to a handful of big companies.[00:27:33] Bret: And then I really believe in agents for specific domains which I think will, it's sort of the analog to software as a service in this new era. You know, it's like, if you just think of the cloud. You can lease a server. It's just a low level primitive, or you can buy an app like you know, Shopify or whatever.[00:27:51] Bret: And most people building a storefront would prefer Shopify over hand rolling their e commerce storefront. I think the same thing will be true of AI. So [00:28:00] I've. I tend to like, if I have a, like an entrepreneur asked me for advice, I'm like, you know, move up the stack as far as you can towards a customer need.[00:28:09] Bret: Broadly, but I, but it doesn't reduce my excitement about what is the reactive building agents kind of thing, just because it is, it is the right question to ask, but I think we'll probably play out probably an open source space more than anything else.[00:28:21] swyx: Yeah, and it's not a priority for you. There's a lot in there.[00:28:24] swyx: I'm kind of curious about your idea maze towards, there are many customer needs. You happen to identify customer experience as yours, but it could equally have been coding assistance or whatever. I think for some, I'm just kind of curious at the top down, how do you look at the world in terms of the potential problem space?[00:28:44] swyx: Because there are many people out there who are very smart and pick the wrong problem.[00:28:47] Bret: Yeah, that's a great question.[00:28:48] Future of Software Development[00:28:48] Bret: By the way, I would love to talk about the future of software, too, because despite the fact it didn't pick coding, I have a lot of that, but I can talk to I can answer your question, though, you know I think when a technology is as [00:29:00] cool as large language models.[00:29:02] Bret: You just see a lot of people starting from the technology and searching for a problem to solve. And I think it's why you see a lot of tools companies, because as a software engineer, you start building an app or a demo and you, you encounter some pain points. You're like,[00:29:17] swyx: a lot of[00:29:17] Bret: people are experiencing the same pain point.[00:29:19] Bret: What if I make it? That it's just very incremental. And you know, I always like to use the metaphor, like you can sell coffee beans, roasted coffee beans. You can add some value. You took coffee beans and you roasted them and roasted coffee beans largely, you know, are priced relative to the cost of the beans.[00:29:39] Bret: Or you can sell a latte and a latte. Is rarely priced directly like as a percentage of coffee bean prices. In fact, if you buy a latte at the airport, it's a captive audience. So it's a really expensive latte. And there's just a lot that goes into like. How much does a latte cost? And I bring it up because there's a supply chain from growing [00:30:00] coffee beans to roasting coffee beans to like, you know, you could make one at home or you could be in the airport and buy one and the margins of the company selling lattes in the airport is a lot higher than the, you know, people roasting the coffee beans and it's because you've actually solved a much more acute human problem in the airport.[00:30:19] Bret: And, and it's just worth a lot more to that person in that moment. It's kind of the way I think about technology too. It sounds funny to liken it to coffee beans, but you're selling tools on top of a large language model yet in some ways your market is big, but you're probably going to like be price compressed just because you're sort of a piece of infrastructure and then you have open source and all these other things competing with you naturally.[00:30:43] Bret: If you go and solve a really big business problem for somebody, that's actually like a meaningful business problem that AI facilitates, they will value it according to the value of that business problem. And so I actually feel like people should just stop. You're like, no, that's, that's [00:31:00] unfair. If you're searching for an idea of people, I, I love people trying things, even if, I mean, most of the, a lot of the greatest ideas have been things no one believed in.[00:31:07] Bret: So I like, if you're passionate about something, go do it. Like who am I to say, yeah, a hundred percent. Or Gmail, like Paul as far, I mean I, some of it's Laura at this point, but like Gmail is Paul's own email for a long time. , and then I amusingly and Paul can't correct me, I'm pretty sure he sent her in a link and like the first comment was like, this is really neat.[00:31:26] Bret: It would be great. It was not your email, but my own . I don't know if it's a true story. I'm pretty sure it's, yeah, I've read that before. So scratch your own niche. Fine. Like it depends on what your goal is. If you wanna do like a venture backed company, if its a. Passion project, f*****g passion, do it like don't listen to anybody.[00:31:41] Bret: In fact, but if you're trying to start, you know an enduring company, solve an important business problem. And I, and I do think that in the world of agents, the software industries has shifted where you're not just helping people more. People be more productive, but you're actually accomplishing tasks autonomously.[00:31:58] Bret: And as a consequence, I think the [00:32:00] addressable market has just greatly expanded just because software can actually do things now and actually accomplish tasks and how much is coding autocomplete worth. A fair amount. How much is the eventual, I'm certain we'll have it, the software agent that actually writes the code and delivers it to you, that's worth a lot.[00:32:20] Bret: And so, you know, I would just maybe look up from the large language models and start thinking about the economy and, you know, think from first principles. I don't wanna get too far afield, but just think about which parts of the economy. We'll benefit most from this intelligence and which parts can absorb it most easily.[00:32:38] Bret: And what would an agent in this space look like? Who's the customer of it is the technology feasible. And I would just start with these business problems more. And I think, you know, the best companies tend to have great engineers who happen to have great insight into a market. And it's that last part that I think some people.[00:32:56] Bret: Whether or not they have, it's like people start so much in the technology, they [00:33:00] lose the forest for the trees a little bit.[00:33:02] Alessio: How do you think about the model of still selling some sort of software versus selling more package labor? I feel like when people are selling the package labor, it's almost more stateless, you know, like it's easier to swap out if you're just putting an input and getting an output.[00:33:16] Alessio: If you think about coding, if there's no ID, you're just putting a prompt and getting back an app. It doesn't really matter. Who generates the app, you know, you have less of a buy in versus the platform you're building, I'm sure on the backend customers have to like put on their documentation and they have, you know, different workflows that they can tie in what's kind of like the line to draw there versus like going full where you're managed customer support team as a service outsource versus.[00:33:40] Alessio: This is the Sierra platform that you can build on. What was that decision? I'll sort of[00:33:44] Bret: like decouple the question in some ways, which is when you have something that's an agent, who is the person using it and what do they want to do with it? So let's just take your coding agent for a second. I will talk about Sierra as well.[00:33:59] Bret: Who's the [00:34:00] customer of a, an agent that actually produces software? Is it a software engineering manager? Is it a software engineer? And it's there, you know, intern so to speak. I don't know. I mean, we'll figure this out over the next few years. Like what is that? And is it generating code that you then review?[00:34:16] Bret: Is it generating code with a set of unit tests that pass, what is the actual. For lack of a better word contract, like, how do you know that it did what you wanted it to do? And then I would say like the product and the pricing, the packaging model sort of emerged from that. And I don't think the world's figured out.[00:34:33] Bret: I think it'll be different for every agent. You know, in our customer base, we do what's called outcome based pricing. So essentially every time the AI agent. Solves the problem or saves a customer or whatever it might be. There's a pre negotiated rate for that. We do that. Cause it's, we think that that's sort of the correct way agents, you know, should be packaged.[00:34:53] Bret: I look back at the history of like cloud software and notably the introduction of the browser, which led to [00:35:00] software being delivered in a browser, like Salesforce to. Famously invented sort of software as a service, which is both a technical delivery model through the browser, but also a business model, which is you subscribe to it rather than pay for a perpetual license.[00:35:13] Bret: Those two things are somewhat orthogonal, but not really. If you think about the idea of software running in a browser, that's hosted. Data center that you don't own, you sort of needed to change the business model because you don't, you can't really buy a perpetual license or something otherwise like, how do you afford making changes to it?[00:35:31] Bret: So it only worked when you were buying like a new version every year or whatever. So to some degree, but then the business model shift actually changed business as we know it, because now like. Things like Adobe Photoshop. Now you subscribe to rather than purchase. So it ended up where you had a technical shift and a business model shift that were very logically intertwined that actually the business model shift was turned out to be as significant as the technical as the shift.[00:35:59] Bret: And I think with [00:36:00] agents, because they actually accomplish a job, I do think that it doesn't make sense to me that you'd pay for the privilege of like. Using the software like that coding agent, like if it writes really bad code, like fire it, you know, I don't know what the right metaphor is like you should pay for a job.[00:36:17] Bret: Well done in my opinion. I mean, that's how you pay your software engineers, right? And[00:36:20] swyx: and well, not really. We paid to put them on salary and give them options and they vest over time. That's fair.[00:36:26] Bret: But my point is that you don't pay them for how many characters they write, which is sort of the token based, you know, whatever, like, There's a, that famous Apple story where we're like asking for a report of how many lines of code you wrote.[00:36:40] Bret: And one of the engineers showed up with like a negative number cause he had just like done a big refactoring. There was like a big F you to management who didn't understand how software is written. You know, my sense is like the traditional usage based or seat based thing. It's just going to look really antiquated.[00:36:55] Bret: Cause it's like asking your software engineer, how many lines of code did you write today? Like who cares? Like, cause [00:37:00] absolutely no correlation. So my old view is I don't think it's be different in every category, but I do think that that is the, if an agent is doing a job, you should, I think it properly incentivizes the maker of that agent and the customer of, of your pain for the job well done.[00:37:16] Bret: It's not always perfect to measure. It's hard to measure engineering productivity, but you can, you should do something other than how many keys you typed, you know Talk about perverse incentives for AI, right? Like I can write really long functions to do the same thing, right? So broadly speaking, you know, I do think that we're going to see a change in business models of software towards outcomes.[00:37:36] Bret: And I think you'll see a change in delivery models too. And, and, you know, in our customer base you know, we empower our customers to really have their hands on the steering wheel of what the agent does they, they want and need that. But the role is different. You know, at a lot of our customers, the customer experience operations folks have renamed themselves the AI architects, which I think is really cool.[00:37:55] Bret: And, you know, it's like in the early days of the Internet, there's the role of the webmaster. [00:38:00] And I don't know whether your webmaster is not a fashionable, you know, Term, nor is it a job anymore? I just, I don't know. Will they, our tech stand the test of time? Maybe, maybe not. But I do think that again, I like, you know, because everyone listening right now is a software engineer.[00:38:14] Bret: Like what is the form factor of a coding agent? And actually I'll, I'll take a breath. Cause actually I have a bunch of pins on them. Like I wrote a blog post right before Christmas, just on the future of software development. And one of the things that's interesting is like, if you look at the way I use cursor today, as an example, it's inside of.[00:38:31] Bret: A repackaged visual studio code environment. I sometimes use the sort of agentic parts of it, but it's largely, you know, I've sort of gotten a good routine of making it auto complete code in the way I want through tuning it properly when it actually can write. I do wonder what like the future of development environments will look like.[00:38:55] Bret: And to your point on what is a software product, I think it's going to change a lot in [00:39:00] ways that will surprise us. But I always use, I use the metaphor in my blog post of, have you all driven around in a way, Mo around here? Yeah, everyone has. And there are these Jaguars, the really nice cars, but it's funny because it still has a steering wheel, even though there's no one sitting there and the steering wheels like turning and stuff clearly in the future.[00:39:16] Bret: If once we get to that, be more ubiquitous, like why have the steering wheel and also why have all the seats facing forward? Maybe just for car sickness. I don't know, but you could totally rearrange the car. I mean, so much of the car is oriented around the driver, so. It stands to reason to me that like, well, autonomous agents for software engineering run through visual studio code.[00:39:37] Bret: That seems a little bit silly because having a single source code file open one at a time is kind of a goofy form factor for when like the code isn't being written primarily by you, but it begs the question of what's your relationship with that agent. And I think the same is true in our industry of customer experience, which is like.[00:39:55] Bret: Who are the people managing this agent? What are the tools do they need? And they definitely need [00:40:00] tools, but it's probably pretty different than the tools we had before. It's certainly different than training a contact center team. And as software engineers, I think that I would like to see particularly like on the passion project side or research side.[00:40:14] Bret: More innovation in programming languages. I think that we're bringing the cost of writing code down to zero. So the fact that we're still writing Python with AI cracks me up just cause it's like literally was designed to be ergonomic to write, not safe to run or fast to run. I would love to see more innovation and how we verify program correctness.[00:40:37] Bret: I studied for formal verification in college a little bit and. It's not very fashionable because it's really like tedious and slow and doesn't work very well. If a lot of code is being written by a machine, you know, one of the primary values we can provide is verifying that it actually does what we intend that it does.[00:40:56] Bret: I think there should be lots of interesting things in the software development life cycle, like how [00:41:00] we think of testing and everything else, because. If you think about if we have to manually read every line of code that's coming out as machines, it will just rate limit how much the machines can do. The alternative is totally unsafe.[00:41:13] Bret: So I wouldn't want to put code in production that didn't go through proper code review and inspection. So my whole view is like, I actually think there's like an AI native I don't think the coding agents don't work well enough to do this yet, but once they do, what is sort of an AI native software development life cycle and how do you actually.[00:41:31] Bret: Enable the creators of software to produce the highest quality, most robust, fastest software and know that it's correct. And I think that's an incredible opportunity. I mean, how much C code can we rewrite and rust and make it safe so that there's fewer security vulnerabilities. Can we like have more efficient, safer code than ever before?[00:41:53] Bret: And can you have someone who's like that guy in the matrix, you know, like staring at the little green things, like where could you have an operator [00:42:00] of a code generating machine be like superhuman? I think that's a cool vision. And I think too many people are focused on like. Autocomplete, you know, right now, I'm not, I'm not even, I'm guilty as charged.[00:42:10] Bret: I guess in some ways, but I just like, I'd like to see some bolder ideas. And that's why when you were joking, you know, talking about what's the react of whatever, I think we're clearly in a local maximum, you know, metaphor, like sort of conceptual local maximum, obviously it's moving really fast. I think we're moving out of it.[00:42:26] Alessio: Yeah. At the end of 23, I've read this blog post from syntax to semantics. Like if you think about Python. It's taking C and making it more semantic and LLMs are like the ultimate semantic program, right? You can just talk to them and they can generate any type of syntax from your language. But again, the languages that they have to use were made for us, not for them.[00:42:46] Alessio: But the problem is like, as long as you will ever need a human to intervene, you cannot change the language under it. You know what I mean? So I'm curious at what point of automation we'll need to get, we're going to be okay making changes. To the underlying languages, [00:43:00] like the programming languages versus just saying, Hey, you just got to write Python because I understand Python and I'm more important at the end of the day than the model.[00:43:08] Alessio: But I think that will change, but I don't know if it's like two years or five years. I think it's more nuanced actually.[00:43:13] Bret: So I think there's a, some of the more interesting programming languages bring semantics into syntax. So let me, that's a little reductive, but like Rust as an example, Rust is memory safe.[00:43:25] Bret: Statically, and that was a really interesting conceptual, but it's why it's hard to write rust. It's why most people write python instead of rust. I think rust programs are safer and faster than python, probably slower to compile. But like broadly speaking, like given the option, if you didn't have to care about the labor that went into it.[00:43:45] Bret: You should prefer a program written in Rust over a program written in Python, just because it will run more efficiently. It's almost certainly safer, et cetera, et cetera, depending on how you define safe, but most people don't write Rust because it's kind of a pain in the ass. And [00:44:00] the audience of people who can is smaller, but it's sort of better in most, most ways.[00:44:05] Bret: And again, let's say you're making a web service and you didn't have to care about how hard it was to write. If you just got the output of the web service, the rest one would be cheaper to operate. It's certainly cheaper and probably more correct just because there's so much in the static analysis implied by the rest programming language that it probably will have fewer runtime errors and things like that as well.[00:44:25] Bret: So I just give that as an example, because so rust, at least my understanding that came out of the Mozilla team, because. There's lots of security vulnerabilities in the browser and it needs to be really fast. They said, okay, we want to put more of a burden at the authorship time to have fewer issues at runtime.[00:44:43] Bret: And we need the constraint that it has to be done statically because browsers need to be really fast. My sense is if you just think about like the, the needs of a programming language today, where the role of a software engineer is [00:45:00] to use an AI to generate functionality and audit that it does in fact work as intended, maybe functionally, maybe from like a correctness standpoint, some combination thereof, how would you create a programming system that facilitated that?[00:45:15] Bret: And, you know, I bring up Rust is because I think it's a good example of like, I think given a choice of writing in C or Rust, you should choose Rust today. I think most people would say that, even C aficionados, just because. C is largely less safe for very similar, you know, trade offs, you know, for the, the system and now with AI, it's like, okay, well, that just changes the game on writing these things.[00:45:36] Bret: And so like, I just wonder if a combination of programming languages that are more structurally oriented towards the values that we need from an AI generated program, verifiable correctness and all of that. If it's tedious to produce for a person, that maybe doesn't matter. But one thing, like if I asked you, is this rest program memory safe?[00:45:58] Bret: You wouldn't have to read it, you just have [00:46:00] to compile it. So that's interesting. I mean, that's like an, that's one example of a very modest form of formal verification. So I bring that up because I do think you have AI inspect AI, you can have AI reviewed. Do AI code reviews. It would disappoint me if the best we could get was AI reviewing Python and having scaled a few very large.[00:46:21] Bret: Websites that were written on Python. It's just like, you know, expensive and it's like every, trust me, every team who's written a big web service in Python has experimented with like Pi Pi and all these things just to make it slightly more efficient than it naturally is. You don't really have true multi threading anyway.[00:46:36] Bret: It's just like clearly that you do it just because it's convenient to write. And I just feel like we're, I don't want to say it's insane. I just mean. I do think we're at a local maximum. And I would hope that we create a programming system, a combination of programming languages, formal verification, testing, automated code reviews, where you can use AI to generate software in a high scale way and trust it.[00:46:59] Bret: And you're [00:47:00] not limited by your ability to read it necessarily. I don't know exactly what form that would take, but I feel like that would be a pretty cool world to live in.[00:47:08] Alessio: Yeah. We had Chris Lanner on the podcast. He's doing great work with modular. I mean, I love. LVM. Yeah. Basically merging rust in and Python.[00:47:15] Alessio: That's kind of the idea. Should be, but I'm curious is like, for them a big use case was like making it compatible with Python, same APIs so that Python developers could use it. Yeah. And so I, I wonder at what point, well, yeah.[00:47:26] Bret: At least my understanding is they're targeting the data science Yeah. Machine learning crowd, which is all written in Python, so still feels like a local maximum.[00:47:34] Bret: Yeah.[00:47:34] swyx: Yeah, exactly. I'll force you to make a prediction. You know, Python's roughly 30 years old. In 30 years from now, is Rust going to be bigger than Python?[00:47:42] Bret: I don't know this, but just, I don't even know this is a prediction. I just am sort of like saying stuff I hope is true. I would like to see an AI native programming language and programming system, and I use language because I'm not sure language is even the right thing, but I hope in 30 years, there's an AI native way we make [00:48:00] software that is wholly uncorrelated with the current set of programming languages.[00:48:04] Bret: or not uncorrelated, but I think most programming languages today were designed to be efficiently authored by people and some have different trade offs.[00:48:15] Evolution of Programming Languages[00:48:15] Bret: You know, you have Haskell and others that were designed for abstractions for parallelism and things like that. You have programming languages like Python, which are designed to be very easily written, sort of like Perl and Python lineage, which is why data scientists use it.[00:48:31] Bret: It's it can, it has a. Interactive mode, things like that. And I love, I'm a huge Python fan. So despite all my Python trash talk, a huge Python fan wrote at least two of my three companies were exclusively written in Python and then C came out of the birth of Unix and it wasn't the first, but certainly the most prominent first step after assembly language, right?[00:48:54] Bret: Where you had higher level abstractions rather than and going beyond go to, to like abstractions, [00:49:00] like the for loop and the while loop.[00:49:01] The Future of Software Engineering[00:49:01] Bret: So I just think that if the act of writing code is no longer a meaningful human exercise, maybe it will be, I don't know. I'm just saying it sort of feels like maybe it's one of those parts of history that just will sort of like go away, but there's still the role of this offer engineer, like the person actually building the system.[00:49:20] Bret: Right. And. What does a programming system for that form factor look like?[00:49:25] React and Front-End Development[00:49:25] Bret: And I, I just have a, I hope to be just like I mentioned, I remember I was at Facebook in the very early days when, when, what is now react was being created. And I remember when the, it was like released open source I had left by that time and I was just like, this is so f*****g cool.[00:49:42] Bret: Like, you know, to basically model your app independent of the data flowing through it, just made everything easier. And then now. You know, I can create, like there's a lot of the front end software gym play is like a little chaotic for me, to be honest with you. It is like, it's sort of like [00:50:00] abstraction soup right now for me, but like some of those core ideas felt really ergonomic.[00:50:04] Bret: I just wanna, I'm just looking forward to the day when someone comes up with a programming system that feels both really like an aha moment, but completely foreign to me at the same time. Because they created it with sort of like from first principles recognizing that like. Authoring code in an editor is maybe not like the primary like reason why a programming system exists anymore.[00:50:26] Bret: And I think that's like, that would be a very exciting day for me.[00:50:28] The Role of AI in Programming[00:50:28] swyx: Yeah, I would say like the various versions of this discussion have happened at the end of the day, you still need to precisely communicate what you want. As a manager of people, as someone who has done many, many legal contracts, you know how hard that is.[00:50:42] swyx: And then now we have to talk to machines doing that and AIs interpreting what we mean and reading our minds effectively. I don't know how to get across that barrier of translating human intent to instructions. And yes, it can be more declarative, but I don't know if it'll ever Crossover from being [00:51:00] a programming language to something more than that.[00:51:02] Bret: I agree with you. And I actually do think if you look at like a legal contract, you know, the imprecision of the English language, it's like a flaw in the system. How many[00:51:12] swyx: holes there are.[00:51:13] Bret: And I do think that when you're making a mission critical software system, I don't think it should be English language prompts.[00:51:19] Bret: I think that is silly because you want the precision of a a programming language. My point was less about that and more about if the actual act of authoring it, like if you.[00:51:32] Formal Verification in Software[00:51:32] Bret: I'll think of some embedded systems do use formal verification. I know it's very common in like security protocols now so that you can, because the importance of correctness is so great.[00:51:41] Bret: My intellectual exercise is like, why not do that for all software? I mean, probably that's silly just literally to do what we literally do for. These low level security protocols, but the only reason we don't is because it's hard and tedious and hard and tedious are no longer factors. So, like, if I could, I mean, [00:52:00] just think of, like, the silliest app on your phone right now, the idea that that app should be, like, formally verified for its correctness feels laughable right now because, like, God, why would you spend the time on it?[00:52:10] Bret: But if it's zero costs, like, yeah, I guess so. I mean, it never crashed. That's probably good. You know, why not? I just want to, like, set our bars really high. Like. We should make, software has been amazing. Like there's a Mark Andreessen blog post, software is eating the world. And you know, our whole life is, is mediated digitally.[00:52:26] Bret: And that's just increasing with AI. And now we'll have our personal agents talking to the agents on the CRO platform and it's agents all the way down, you know, our core infrastructure is running on these digital systems. We now have like, and we've had a shortage of software developers for my entire life.[00:52:45] Bret: And as a consequence, you know if you look, remember like health care, got healthcare. gov that fiasco security vulnerabilities leading to state actors getting access to critical infrastructure. I'm like. We now have like created this like amazing system that can [00:53:00] like, we can fix this, you know, and I, I just want to, I'm both excited about the productivity gains in the economy, but I just think as software engineers, we should be bolder.[00:53:08] Bret: Like we should have aspirations to fix these systems so that like in general, as you said, as precise as we want to be in the specification of the system. We can make it work correctly now, and I'm being a little bit hand wavy, and I think we need some systems. I think that's where we should set the bar, especially when so much of our life depends on this critical digital infrastructure.[00:53:28] Bret: So I'm I'm just like super optimistic about it. But actually, let's go to w

2025開春特集，讓我們用滿滿的正能量跟著直男一起大升級！先從人與人之間的溝通技巧開始，不管妳是I人或E人你都必須精通這項技能，跟著網紅 Vinh Giang 老師的小撇步來訓練自己的說話技巧！ Kai 老師也從過去的交往經驗中學到了很多難以忘懷的人生教訓，像是忍痛放棄 Internet Explorer (?) 再來，你知道早晨的例行公事不單單只是個人生活習慣嗎？根據 Dr. Andrew Huberman 的研究，好的晨間習慣會直接影響到你的生理機能讓你開啟美好的一天！最後，主持人們也分享了自己的2025新年新希望，也感嘆自己逐漸離"年輕人"越來越遠，但沒關係，RF 大家庭就一起變得更老更有智慧吧！ In the first episode of the new year, the boys are here to spread POSITIVE energy and focus on how we can all grow together in 2025! They kick things off by discussing the importance of communication skills, sharing tips from Vinh Giang on how to improve your speaking. Kai then reflects on the life lessons he's learned from past relationships, including the unforgettable moment when he ditched Internet Explorer. Next, they dive into the value of a solid morning routine, featuring research from Dr. Andrew Huberman to help you start the day feeling your best. Finally, the boys share their goals for 2025, reflecting on how we are all getting old… but that's okay, we'll grow old together with the RF family!! WATCH ON YOUTUBE ► https://youtu.be/oMnFQDZnIYI ADD US ON: INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/realfakepod TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@realfakepod ALSO LISTEN ON: SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/1TksE7y9IMfQ260RIphbVZ?si=1c2e29c11998439d APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/realfake/id1696494723 KKBOX: https://podcast.kkbox.com/tw/channel/4kLuUmtJAAS0srSYvP

В этом выпуске мы вспоминаем непростой путь MS Windows - 640Кб и 256 цветов, скринсейверы и пасьянсы, Millenium и Vista, надоедливую скрепку и бесполезный Internet Explorer. В после-шоу Аур рассказывает о своём посещении Стокгольмского Городского музея, а Домнин смотрит художественный сериал Schmigadoon! Далее обсуждаем события в Южной Корее, закрытие завода по производству конфет в Зальцбурге и перспективы роста стоимости кофе в 2025 году.

Beleggers van ASML, ASMI en Besi vieren een feestje. Dat komt door Joe Biden, want ineens wordt hij minder streng. Volgens Bloomberg komt hij deze week met minder strenge exportbeperkingen voor de Chinese techsector. De lobby heeft geholpen en daar profiteren ook Nederlandse bedrijven van. Deze aflevering kijken we hoe lang dat feestje duurt. Want Biden is nu het feestnummer, maar straks komt Donald Trump. Gaat hij het feestje voor techbeleggers verpesten? Na Google, waar een opsplitsing dreigt, staat Microsoft nu mogelijk hetzelfde te wachten. Toezichthouder FTC start een enorm onderzoek naar machtsmisbruik door Microsoft. Verder vertellen we je waarom Ferrari de enige Europese autofabrikant is die niks te vrezen heeft van een Amerikaanse handelsoorlog. En over de Amerikanen gesproken: Bernard Hammelburg vertelt waarom hij op deze Thanksgiving geen kalkoen eet.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Send us a textThis week is loaded with high-stakes showdowns, culture-defining beats, and innovations that reshaped our digital lives. We begin in Fallujah, Iraq, where the brutal Second Battle of Fallujah—aka Operation Phantom Fury—gripped international attention. Coalition forces faced intense resistance in a city that had become a fortified insurgent hub, leading to one of the bloodiest battles of the Iraq War. But this wasn't just history; it's also the story behind the controversial game Six Days in Fallujah. Reviving real-life conflict as a video game sparked huge debates about militarism in gaming—some called it a recruitment tool, while others argued for its realism in capturing war's harsh realities.

Brad's back from Western North Carolina, so it's time for a casual debriefing on being out there for two and a half weeks dealing with the Hurricane Helene aftermath, with a focus on all sorts of technical subjects like portable lighting strategies, acquiring and hooking up a generator in a hurry, making sense of the wiring layouts in older houses, remote work with almost no connectivity, dehumidifying and remediating a flooded basement, and, yes, some of the sillier computing artifacts that emerged in the course of the cleanup.The links for emergency and offline maps we mentioned that were sent in by a listener:http://cellmapper.net/https://atlas.eia.gov/apps/all-energy-infrastructure-and-resources/explorehttps://organicmaps.app/ Support the Pod! Contribute to the Tech Pod Patreon and get access to our booming Discord, a monthly bonus episode, your name in the credits, and other great benefits! You can support the show at: https://patreon.com/techpod

This week we're joined by Tara Hernandez, former manager of Netscape Navigator development, as she takes us inside the legendary 90s browser wars. Tara shares her experiences working at the cutting edge of Internet technology, from joining Netscape in 1995, to the heated competition with Microsoft's Internet Explorer, and the iconic decision to open-source the Mozilla code. Hear about the challenges of working 120 hour weeks, wild office celebrations, and pranks during the battle for Internet dominance.  Contents: 00:00 - The Week's Retro News Stories  36:13 - Tara Hernandez Interview Please visit our amazing sponsors and help to support the show: Bitmap Books - https://www.bitmapbooks.com Check out PCBWay at https://pcbway.com for all your PCB needs We need your help to ensure the future of the podcast, if you'd like to help us with running costs, equipment and hosting, please consider supporting us on Patreon: https://theretrohour.com/support/ https://www.patreon.com/retrohour Get your Retro Hour merchandise: https://bit.ly/33OWBKd Join our Discord channel: https://discord.gg/GQw8qp8 Website: http://theretrohour.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theretrohour/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/retrohouruk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/retrohouruk/ Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/theretrohour Show notes: Mode 7 on NES: https://tinyurl.com/yukdj9m2 Cyclopean: https://tinyurl.com/4xzzndcm Yoshi DS leaked: https://tinyurl.com/8hu5nzjj 1986 Mac Plus online: https://tinyurl.com/4x4chsub

Three Buddy Problem - Episode 17: News of a wiper malware attack in Israel implicating ESET, threats from wartime hacktivists, China's strange response to Volt Typhoon attribution and Section 702 messaging, an IE zero-day discovery and web browser rot in South Korea, the ongoing isolation of Kaspersky due to sanctions, and the geopolitical influences affecting cybersecurity reporting. Cast: Juan Andres Guerrero-Saade (https://twitter.com/juanandres_gs) (SentinelLabs), Costin Raiu (https://twitter.com/craiu) (Art of Noh) and Ryan Naraine (https://twitter.com/ryanaraine) (SecurityWeek).

Did you know the FBI recently took down the infamous ransomware gang, Radar? Tune in to learn all about the high-stakes operation that saw the seizure of multiple servers and domains across three countries. We'll analyze the effectiveness of this takedown and the impact of Radar's double extortion tactics on the cybersecurity landscape.Ever wondered about the psychological impacts of forming emotional attachments to AI? Our episode transitions from a nostalgic look at Disney theme parks to a profound discussion on OpenAI's concerns about people bonding with ChatGPT 4.0. We'll explore how humans anthropomorphize objects and characters, drawing parallels to our interactions with AI and the potential consequences of these digital relationships.Relive your childhood with a trip down memory lane, featuring classic TV shows and the latest nostalgic gadget – the Thumbie Color. Special guest Gwen, an IT veteran, joins us to talk about this charming gaming device that combines the nostalgia of Tamagotchi with the simplicity of a Game Boy Color. Plus, we'll cover the quirky fail of Waymo's self-driving cars causing chaos in San Francisco, wrap up with Mike's mesmerizing moment, and take a nostalgic look back at Internet Explorer's launch in 1995. And don't forget our whiskey tastings – will our pick of the day win your approval?

In the latest episode of the "Giant Robots On Tour" podcast, hosts Rémy Hannequin and Sami Birnbaum welcome Marc G. Gauthier, a solopreneur and startup coach, who shares his journey from software development to becoming the founder and developer of The Shadow Boxing App. Marc describes how his interest in software engineering began at a young age with QBasic and evolved through various leadership roles at companies like Drivy (now Getaround) and Back Market. His early passion for gaming led him to learn coding, and over time, he naturally transitioned into management roles, finding excitement in organizing and leading teams while maintaining his love for building products. During the episode, Marc discusses the challenges and intricacies of scaling startups, emphasizing the importance of balancing speed and reliability in software development. He recounts his experiences in leadership positions, where he faced the dual task of managing rapid team growth and maintaining software efficiency. Marc also shares insights into the startup ecosystem, noting that most startups struggle to achieve success due to a combination of market timing, team dynamics, and resource management. His own venture, The Shadow Boxing App, represents his attempt to return to hands-on coding while leveraging his extensive experience in startup coaching and advising. Marc also touches on the role of AI in the future of software development, expressing cautious optimism about its potential to augment human workflows and automate repetitive tasks. He advises current and aspiring developers to embrace AI as a tool to enhance their capabilities rather than a replacement for human ingenuity. Marc concludes by highlighting the importance of realistic expectations in the startup world and the need for continuous learning and adaptation in the ever-evolving tech landscape. Getaround (https://getaround.com/) Follow Getaround on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/getaround/), Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/getaround), X (https://twitter.com/getaround), YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/getaround), or Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/getaround/). Back Market (https://www.backmarket.com/en-us) Follow Back Market on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/back-market/), Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/BackMarketCom), X (https://x.com/backmarket), or Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/backmarket). The Shadow Boxing App (https://shadowboxingapp.com/) Follow Marc Gauthier on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcggauthier/). Follow thoughtbot on X (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Transcript: RÉMY:  This is the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots podcast, the Giant Robots on Tour series coming to you from Europe, West Asia, and Africa, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Rémy Hannequin. SAMI: And I'm your other host, Sami Birnbaum. RÉMY: If you are wondering who we are, make sure you find the previous podcast where we introduced the Giant Robots on Tour series by throwing random icebreakers at each other. And find out that Jared likes it when someone takes the time to understand someone else's point of view. Joining us today is Marc G Gauthier, a Solopreneur and Startup Coach. Marc, you used to be VP of Engineering at Drivy, now known as Getaround, and also Director of Engineering at Back Market. You also have been a coach and advisor to a startup for over a decade. Currently, your current adventure is being the Founder and Developer of The Shadow Boxing App available on the Apple App Store. We always like to go back to the start with our guests. Everyone has a story, and we are interested in your journey. So, Marc, what led you into the world of software engineering in the first place? MARC: Hello. Well, happy to be here. And, yeah, I started getting into software development quite a long time ago. I actually learned software development with QBasic when I was something like seven. And, from there, I just kept on learning, learning, and learning and got into school for it, then worked in different startups, and then moved into more leadership position management. And I'm now, like, coaching people and building my own product. What do you want to get? Because it's broad. I've been doing it for quite a while. Like, I don't think the QBasic days are that insightful. The only thing I remember from that time is being confused by the print comment that I would expect it to print on my printer or something, but it didn't; it just printed on the screen. That's the only thing I have from back then. SAMI: Why at seven years old? And I'm taking you back too far, but at seven years old, I was probably collecting Pokémon cards and possibly like, you know, those football stickers. I don't know if you had the Panini stickers. MARC: Oh yeah, I was doing that as well. SAMI: But you were doing that as well. But then what drove you at that age? What do you think it was that made you think, I want to start learning to code, or play around with the computer, or get into tech? MARC: [laughs] Yeah. Well, I remember, back then, I really wanted a computer to play games. Like, I had a friend who had a computer. He was playing games, and I wanted to do that. So, I was asking my mom to have a computer, and she told me, "Yeah, you can have one." And she found a really old computer she bought from a neighbor, I think. But she told me like, "I don't know anything about it. So, you have to figure it out and set it up." And she just found someone to kind of help me. And this person told me to, like, take the computer apart. She taught me a bit of software development, and I kind of liked it. And I was always trying to change the games. Back then, it was way easier. You could just edit a sound file, and you would just edit the sound file in the game, so yeah, just learning like this. It wasn't really my intent to learn programming. It just kind of happened because I wanted to play video games really. SAMI: That's really cool. It's really interesting. Rémy, do you remember how...how did you first get...do you remember your first computer, Rémy? RÉMY: My first computer, I think I remember, but the first one I used it was, first, a very long time ago. I discovered that it was an Apple computer way, way later when I discovered what Apple was and what computers were actually. And I just remember playing SimCity 2000 on it, and it was amazing. And we had to, you know, cancel people from making phone calls while we were on the computer because of the internet and all the way we had to connect to the internet back then. And after that, just, I think, Windows 95 at home. Yeah, that's the only thing I can remember actually. Because I think I was lucky, so I got one quite early. And I don't really remember not having one, so I was quite lucky with that. And so, I was always kind of in the computer game without being too much [inaudible 05:02] [laughs]. SAMI: Yeah, I think that's similar to me as well. Like, it's interesting because my initial introduction to computers would have been watching my older brothers kind of play computer games and actually being told to get out the room, or like, you know, "We're busy now. Don't bother us." And then, what actually happened is when they left the room, I managed to play what they were playing, which was the first ever GTA. I don't know if anyone ever played this, but it is so cool if you look back on it. You could probably find emulators online, but it was, like, a bird's eye view, like, way of operating. And it was probably also that drive where you get frustrated on a computer because you want to do something, so, like you were saying, Marc, where you went to edit the sound files because you want to change something. You want to do something. I definitely think that is something which I felt as well is that frustration of I want to change this thing. And then, that kind of gets into well, how does it work? And if I know how it works, then I can probably change it. MARC: Yeah. And once you figure out how things work, it's also really exciting. Like, once you figure out the initialization file on Windows, like, you can edit, like, what level is unlocked right away. It's kind of cheat codes but not really. And there are some really fun ones. Like, I would edit sound files for racing games. And, usually, it's just a base sound file, and then they would pitch shift the sound to make it sound like an engine. So, if you record your voice, it's just really funny. RÉMY: So, Marc, you mentioned moving to management positions quite early. Do you remember what made you do this move? Was it for, like, a natural path in your career, or was it something you really wanted from the first part of your career as a developer? What happened at this moment? MARC: Yeah, that was not completely planned. Like, I don't think I really plan my career precisely. It's just something that happens. So, I joined Drivy after, like, I was already a software engineer for, like, five years at that point. I joined as a lead backend engineer. I did that for three years. And after three years, the company went from...I think there was, like, three software engineers to a dozen. There was a need for more structure, and the CTO, at the time so, Nicolas, wanted to focus more on products. And it was hard to do both, like do the product side, the design, the data, and do the engineering, the software, and so on. So, he wanted to get a bit away from software engineering and more into product. So, there was a gap in the organization. I was there. I was interested to try, and I was already doing some more things on the human side, so talking to people, organizing, internal communication. I kind of liked it. So, I was excited to try, give it a try. It was really interesting. I found that it was a different way to have an impact on the team. I just kept doing it. And my plan was to keep doing it until I'm bored with it. And I'm still not bored with it, even though you kind of miss just actually building the software yourselves, actually coding. So, that's also why I'm trying something different right now with my mobile app adventure. SAMI: Right. So, on the side, you've got this Shadow Boxing App, which, in my dedicated research, I downloaded and had a go with it. MARC: Did you actually try it, or did you just click around? SAMI: I did a proper workout, mate. I did. I put myself as, like, the absolute beginner. I did it on my MacBook Pro. I know it's built for iPad or iPhone, but it still worked amazingly well. And it kind of reminded me why I stopped doing boxing because it's hard work. MARC: [laughs] Yeah, it is. SAMI: It's not a gimmick this thing, right? So, it's like, the best way to describe it is it's essentially replacing if I was to go to the gym and have a trainer who's telling me kind of the moves to make or how to do it, then this kind of replaces that trainer. So, it's something you can do at home. It was really cool. I was surprised, actually. I thought, at the beginning, it's not going to be that interactive, or it won't actually be as hard or difficult as a workout, and it really was. So, it's, yeah, it was really cool, really interesting to try it. And going into that, you say you wanted to get back more into coding, and that's why you are doing this kind of, like, app on the side, or it allowed you to kind of do a bit more coding away from the people management. You've been involved in a lot of startups, and I actually often get...as consultants, when we work at thoughtbot, we get a lot of people who come with different startup ideas. When you look back at all the startups you've been involved with, do you think more startups are successful than those that fail? Or have you seen a lot of startups...actually, people come with these great ideas; they want to build this amazing product, but it's actually really hard to be a successful product? MARC: I think it's [inaudible 10:22] how to have the right idea, be at the right spot at the right time, build the right team, get enough momentum. I think most startups fail, and even startups that are successful often can be the result of a pivot. Like, I know companies that pivoted a bunch of times before finding any success. So, it's really hard actually...if I take my past four companies, only two are still alive. Like, the first two went under. Actually, there's even more companies that went under after I left. Yeah, it's just really hard to get anything off the ground. So, yeah, it's complicated, and I have a lot of respect for all the founders that go through it. For The Shadow Boxing App, I worked on it for the past three years, but I'm only working on it almost full-time for the past two months. And it was way safer. I could check the product-market fit. I could check if I enjoyed working on it. So, I guess it was easier. I had the luxury of having a full-time job. Building the app didn't take that much time. But to answer your question, I think, from my experience, most startups fail. And the ones that succeed it's kind of lightning in a bottle, or, like, there's a lot of factors that get into it. It's hard to replicate. A lot of people try to replicate some science, some ideas. They go, oh, we'll do this, and we'll do that. And we use this technique that Google uses and so on, but it's never that straightforward. SAMI: Yeah, I'm so happy you said that because I think it's a real brutal truth that I'd also say most of the startup projects that I've worked on probably have failed. Like, there's very few that actually make it. It's such a saturated market. And I think, I guess, in your role as advising startups, it's really good to come in with that honesty at the beginning and to say, "It's a big investment if you want to build something. Most people probably aren't successful." And then, when you work from that perspective, you can have, like, way more transparent and open discussions from the get-go. Because when you're outside of tech...and a lot of people have this idea of if I could just get an app to do my idea, I'm going to be the next Facebook. I'm going to be the next, you know, Amazon Marketplace. And it just kind of isn't like that. You've got these massive leaders in Facebook, Amazon, Google, Netflix. But below that, there's a lot of failures and a massively saturated market. So, yeah, just, it's so interesting that you also see it in a similar way. MARC: What I saw evolve in the past 10 years is the fact that people got more realistic with it. So, maybe 10 years ago, I would have people coming to me with just the most ridiculous idea, like, you know, I'll do Airbnb for cats. And really think, yeah, I just need a good idea, and that's it. But now I feel like people kind of understand that it's more complicated. There's way more resources online. People are more educated. They also see way more successes. Failures are also a bit more advertised. We saw a bunch of startups just go under. It feels like every month I get an email from a tool I used in the past saying, "Oh, we're shutting down," and so on. So, I think it's not as bad as 10 years ago where weekly I would have just people asking me, "I want to build this app," and the app would be just the most ridiculous thing or something that would be really smart, but it's really like, "Oh, I want to do, like, food delivery but better than what exists." It's like, yeah, that's a really good idea, but then you need...it's not only software. There's logistics. There's so much behind it that you don't seem to understand just yet. But, as a coach, so, what I'm doing is I'm helping startups that are usually before or after series A but not too large of startups just go to the next stage. And people are really aware of that and really worried. Like, they see money going down, market fit not necessarily being there. And they know, like, their company is at risk. And especially when you talk to founders, they're really aware that, you know, everything could be collapsing really quickly. If they make, like, three really bad decisions in a row, you're basically done. Obviously, it depends on the company, but yeah, people are more aware than before, especially nowadays where money is a bit harder to get. Let's say two years ago, there was infinite money, it felt like. Now it's more tight. People are more looking at the unit economics precisely. So, people need to be more realistic to succeed. RÉMY: What's the kind of recurrent struggle the startups you coach usually face? Apparently, it quite changed in the past decade, but maybe what are the current struggles they face? MARC: It really depends. It's kind of broad. But, usually, it would be, let's say, a startup after their first round of funding, let's say, if you take startups that are looking for funding. So, you usually have a group of founders, two to four, usually two or three, that are really entrepreneurs that want to bootstrap some things. They're builders. They're hacking things together, and they're really excited about the product. And, suddenly, fast forward a few years, they're starting to be successful, and they have to lead a team of, you know, like, 50 people, 100 people, and they weren't prepared for that. They were really prepared to, like, build software. Like, especially the CTOs, they are usually really great hackers. They can, like, create a product really quickly. But, suddenly, they need to manage 30 engineers, and it's completely different, and they're struggling with that. So, that's a common problem for CTOs. And then, it creates a bunch of problems. Like, you would have CEOs and CTOs not agreeing on how to approach the strategy, how to approach building a thing. What should be the methodology? Something that worked with 3 engineers around the table doesn't work with 50 engineers distributed in 5 countries. And if it's your first time being a CTO, and often founders of early-stage startups are first-time CTOs, it can be really hard to figure out. MID-ROLL AD: Are your engineers spending too much time on DevOps and maintenance issues when you need them on new features? We know maintaining your own servers can be costly and that it's easy for spending creep to sneak in when your team isn't looking. By delegating server management, maintenance, and security to thoughtbot and our network of service partners, you can get 24x7 support from our team of experts, all for less than the cost of one in-house engineer. Save time and money with our DevOps and Maintenance service. Find out more at: tbot.io/devops. RÉMY: In your past companies, so you've been VP and CTO. So, in your opinion, what's the best a VP or a CTO can bring to a scaling startup? What are your best tips to share? MARC: I guess it depends [laughs], obviously, like, depending on the stage of the company, the size of the company. For instance, when I was at Drivy, at some point, the most important thing was scaling the team hiring, and so on. But, at some point, we got acquired by Getaround, and the priorities got shifted. It was more like, okay, how do you figure out this new setup for the company and the team? Like, what is good? What is bad? How do you communicate with the team? How do you get people to stay motivated when everything is changing? How do you make sure you make the right decisions? And then, when I joined Back Market, Back Market when I joined, I had a team of a bit less than 12 engineers reporting directly to me. And after a bit more than a year, I had 60, and I hired most of them. So, here the challenge was just scaling insanely fast. Like, the company is really successful. Like, Back Market is selling refurbished electronics in a mission to, you know, provide a viable alternative to buying new electronics. So, it's basically, do you want a smartphone that is both cheaper and more ecologically viable? And most people would say yes to that. So, a company is insanely successful, but it's really hard to scale. So, at that point, the role was, okay, how do you make sure you scale as well as possible with a lot of pressure while still leaving the team in a state that they're able to still build software? Because it's just really chaotic. Like, you can't, like, 5X your team without chaos. But how do you minimize that but still go really fast? SAMI: Yeah. So, not only did I try that Shadow App. I actually went on that Backup website. What's it called? It's not called Backup. What's it called again? MARC: Back Market. SAMI: Back Market. Thank you. Yeah, it was really cool. I checked my old iPhone SE from 2020, which I've kept for about...over three years, I've had this iPhone. And they said they would give me $72 for it, which was really cool. So, it sounds like a really cool idea. MARC: That's something we worked on, which is, basically, if you have any old phones in your drawer, it's a really bad spot for them. And so, there's a service. You go on the website. You say, "I have this, I have that; I have this, I have that." And either we buy it from you, or we just take it away from you, and we recycle them, which is much better than just having them collect dust. SAMI: Yeah, no, it's a great idea. What interested me when you were speaking about kind of these different positions that you've been in, I was almost expecting you to talk about maybe, like, a technical challenge or code complexity difficulty. But, actually, what you've described is more people problems. And how do we scale with regards to people, and how do we keep people motivated? So, I guess using that experience, and this might be counterintuitive to what a lot of people think, but what do you think is the hardest thing about software development? I know there could be many things. But if you had to pick something that is the most difficult, and maybe we can all have an answer to what we think this is, but starting with you, Marc, what do you think is the hardest thing about software development then? MARC: What I saw is how do you build something that works for enough time to bring value to the customers? So, it's easy to hack something together pretty quickly and get it in front of people, but then it might not be reliable. It might break down. Or you could decide to build something perfect and spend, like, two years on it and then ship it, and then it's really stable, but maybe it's not what people want. And finding this balance between shipping something fast, but shipping something that is reliable enough for what you're building. Obviously, if you're building a health care system, you will have more, like, the bar will be higher than if you build, like, Airbnb for cats. Finding this balance and adjusting as you go is really hard. So, for instance, when do you introduce caching? Because, obviously, caching is hard to do right. If you don't do it, your site will be slow, which can be okay for a time. But then if you introduce it too late, then it's really hard to just retrofit into whatever you already have. So, finding the right moment to introduce a new practice, introduce a new technology is tricky. And then, like, I talked a lot about the people, and it's also because I spent quite a bit of time in leadership position. But, at the end of the day, it will be the people writing the code that gets the software to exist and run. So, having people aligned and agreeing on the vision is also key because unless I'm the only developer on the project, I can't really make all decisions on things that are going to get built. So, figuring out how to get people motivated, interested in just building in the same direction is really important. It's really easy. Like, one thing with Drivy, when I was there, that was really fun to see, like, many people have this reaction, especially the more senior people joining the company. They would see the engineering team, and they were really, really surprised by how small it was because we were being really, really efficient. Like, we were paying really close attention to what we would work on. So, kind of technology we would introduce would be quite conservative on both to really be able to deliver what is the most important. So, we were able to do a lot with, honestly, not a lot of people. And I think this is a great mark for success. You don't need a thousand people to build your software if you ask the right question, like, "Do I need to build X or Y?" and always having these discussions. RÉMY: What's your opinion on that, Sami? SAMI: Yeah, I guess it changes. Like, for example, today, the hardest thing about software development was just getting Jira to work. That has literally ruined my whole day. But I've found, for me, what I find is the most difficult thing to do is making code resilient to change. What I mean by that is writing code that's easy to change. And a lot of that, I guess, we try to work on at thoughtbot, as consultants, is following kind of design principles and best practices and certain design patterns that really make the code easy to change. Because that, I think, when I'm writing code is the biggest challenge. And where I feel when I'm working with our clients one of the biggest things they can invest in, which is difficult because there's not a lot of visibility around it or metrics, is ensuring that code that's written is easy to change because, at some point, it will. And I've also worked on systems which are bigger, and when you can't change them, conversations start happening about the cost of change. Do we rewrite it from the ground up again? And that opens a whole different can of worms. So, that, for me, I think, is definitely one of the hardest things. How about yourself, Rémy? RÉMY: I don't know about the most difficult. I mean, there are many things difficult. But I remember something that I had to put extra effort, so maybe it was one of the most difficult for me. When I started being a consultant, when I joined thoughtbot was to understand what's the boundary between executing and giving an advice? So, basically, I discovered that when you're a consultant, but it works also when you're a developer in a team, you know, you're not just only the one who is going to write the code. You're supposed to be also someone with expertise, experience to share it and to make the project and the team benefit from it. So, at some point, I discovered that I should not just listen to what the client would say they want. Obviously, that's what they want, but it's more interesting and more difficult to understand why they want it and why they actually need, which could be different from what they want. So, it's a whole different conversation to discover together what is actually the necessary thing to build, and with your expertise and experience, try to find the thing that is going to be the most efficient, reliable, and making both the client and the customers happy. MARC: Yeah. And as software engineers, it's really easy to get excited about a problem and just go, "Oh, I could solve it this way." But then you need to step back and go, "Well, maybe it doesn't need fixing, or we should do something completely different." At some point, I was working with a customer service organization. In their workflows, they had to go on, let's say, five different pages and click on the button to get something to do one action. And so, what they asked for is to have those five buttons on one single page, and so, they could go, click, click, click, click, click. But after looking at it, what they needed is just automation of that, not five buttons on the page. But it's really easy to go, oh, and we could make those buttons, like, kind of generic and have a button creator thing and make it really fancy. When you step back, you go, oh, they shouldn't be clicking that many buttons. SAMI: Yeah, that makes so much sense because just in that example...I can't remember where I read this, but every line of code you write has to be maintained. So, in that example where you've got five buttons, you're kind of maintaining probably a lot more code than when you've got the single button, which goes to, I don't know, a single action or a method that will handle kind of all the automation for you. And that's also, you know, driving at simplicity. So, sometimes, like, you see this really cool problem, and there's a really cool way to solve it. But if you can solve it, you mentioned, like, being conservative with the type of frameworks maybe you used in a previous company, like, solve it in the most simple way, and you'll thank yourself later. Because, at some point, you have to come back to it, and maintain it, change it. Yeah, so it makes a lot of sense. And, Marc, you said you started when you were 7, which is really young. Through that amount of time, you've probably seen massive changes in the way websites look, feel, and how they work. In that time, what's the biggest change you actually think you've seen? MARC: The biggest thing I saw is, when I started, internet didn't exist or at least wasn't available. Like, I remember being at school and the teacher would ask like, "How many people have a computer at home?" And we'd be like, two or three people. So, people didn't have internet until I was like 14, 15, I'd say. So, that's the biggest one. But, let's say, after it started, they just got more complicated. Like, so, the complexity is getting crazy. Like, I remember, at some point, where I saw I think it was called Aviary. It was basically Photoshop in the browser, and I was just insanely impressed by just the fact that you could do this in the browser. And, nowadays, like, you've got Figma, and you've got so many tools that are insanely impressive. Back then, it was just text, images, and that's it. I actually wrote a blog post a few years ago about how I used to build websites just using frames. So, I don't know if you're familiar with just frames, but I didn't really know how to do divs. So, I would just do frames because that's what I understood back then, again, little kid. But it was kind of working. You were dealing with IE 5 or, like, I remember, like, professionally fixing bugs for IE 5.5 or, like, AOL, like, 9, something ridiculous like this. So, building a website just got way easier but also way more complicated, if that makes sense. Like, it's way easier to do most things. For instance, I don't know, like, 20 years ago, you wanted a rounded corner; you would have to create images and kind of overlay them in a weird way. It would break in many cases. Nowadays, you want rounded corners? That's a non-topic. But now you need, like, offline capabilities of your website. And, in a lot of cases, there's really complex features that are expected from users. So, the bar is getting raised to crazy levels. SAMI: Yeah, I always wonder about this. Like, when you look at how the internet used to be and how people develop for the internet, and, like you're saying, now it's more complex but easier to do some things. I don't know if as developers we're making things harder or easier for ourselves. Like, if you look at the amount of technology someone needs to know to get started, it grows constantly. To do this, you have to add this framework, and you need to have this library, and maybe even a different language, and then, to even host something now, the amount of technologies you need to know. Do you think we're making things harder for ourselves, or do you think easier? MARC: Well, I guess there's always back and forth, like, regarding complexity. So, things will get really, really complex, and then someone will go, "Well, let's stop that and simplify." That's why, like, I'm seeing some people not rejecting React and so on, but going a simpler route like Rails has options like this. There's people using HTMX, which is really simple. So, just going back to something simpler. I think a lot of the really complex solutions also come from the fact that now we have massive teams building websites, and you need that complexity to be able to handle the team size. But it's kind of, then you need more people to handle the complexity, and it's just getting crazy. Yeah, honestly, I don't know. I'm seeing a lot of things that feel too complex for...like, the technology feels really complicated to accomplish some things that should be simple or at least feel simple. But, at the same time, there are things that got so simple that it's ridiculous like just accepting payment. I remember, like, if you wanted to accept payment on a site, it would be months of work, and now it takes a minute. You just plug in Stripe, and it works. And it's often cheaper than what it used to be. So, it's kind of...or deploying. You mentioned deploying can be really hard. Well, you don't need to have a physical server in your room just eating your place up to have your website, your personal website running. You just push it to Vercel, or Heroku, or whatever, or just a static page on S3. So, this got simpler, but then, yeah, you can get it to be so much more crazy. So, if you host your static website on S3, fairly simple. But then if you try to understand permissions on S3, then, you know, it's over. RÉMY: I don't know if it's really in the path of our discussion. I just wanted to ask you, so this is the on tour series, where we...so, usually, the Giant Robots podcast used to be a little bit more American-centric, and this on tour is moving back to the other side of the Atlantic with, again, Europe, West Asia, and Africa. You've been part of a company, Drivy, which expanded from France to neighboring countries in Europe. What could you tell our listeners about how to expand a business internationally? MARC: That's a tough question, especially in Europe. Because I know looking from the outside, like, if you're from the U.S. and you look at Europe, it feels like, you know, a uniform continent, but really, it's very different. Like, just payment methods are different. Culture is very different. For instance, when I was working at Back Market in France, one of the branding aspects of Back Market was its humor. Like, we would be making a lot of jokes on the website, and it would work really well in France. Like, people would love the brand. But then you expand to other countries, and they just don't find that funny at all. Like, it's not helping at all, and they're expecting a different tone of voice. So, it's not just, okay, I need to translate my own page; it's I need to internationalize for this market. I guess my advice is do it country by country. Sometimes I see companies going like, oh, we opened in 20 different countries, and you go, how even do you do that? And spend some time understanding how people are using your product or, like, a similar product locally because you would be surprised by what you learn. Sometimes there's different capabilities. For instance, when Drivy went to the UK, there's so much more you can learn. There's the government database that you can look up, and it really helps with managing risk. If people are known to steal cars, you can kind of figure it out. I'm simplifying a bit, but you can use this. You don't have that in France because we just don't have this solution. But if you go to Nordic countries, for instance, they have way more electric vehicles, so maybe the product doesn't work as well. So, it's really understanding what's different locally and being willing to invest, to adapt. Because if you go, okay, I'm going to open in the Netherlands but you don't adopt the payment methods that are used in the Netherlands, you might as well not open at all. So, it's either you do it properly and you kind of figure out what properly means for your product, or you postpone, and you do it well later. Like, right now, I'm struggling a bit with my app because it's open. So, it's on the App Store, so it's open globally. And it's a SaaS, so it's simpler, but I struggle with language. So, it's in French and English. I spoke both of this language, obviously, French better than English. But I think I'm doing okay with both. But I also built it in Spanish because I speak some Spanish fairly poorly, and I wanted to try to hit a different market like the Mexican market that are doing boxing quite a lot. But the quality doesn't seem there. Like, I don't have the specific boxing lingo, so I'm contemplating just rolling it back, like, removing the Spanish language until I get it really well, maybe with a translator dedicated to it that knows boxing in Spanish. Because I work with translators that would translate, but they don't really know that, yeah, like a jab in boxing. In Spanish, they might also say, "Jab." They won't translate it to, like, [inaudible 38:31]. SAMI: Yeah. At thoughtbot, we have one of our clients they wanted to release their app also internationally. And so, we had also kind of a lot of these problems. We even had to handle...so, in some languages, you go from left to right, right to left. So, that kind of also changed a lot of the way you would design things is mainly for people who are going from left to right. I mean, that's thinking kind of more Europe, U.S.-centric. And then, you could be releasing your app into a different country where they read the other direction. So, yeah, a lot of this stuff is really interesting, especially the culture, like you're saying. Do they find this humor funny? And then, how do they translate things? Which, in my head, I think, could you use AI to do that. Which is a nice segue into, like, the mandatory question about AI, which we can't let you go until we ask you. MARC: [laughs] SAMI: So, okay, obviously, I'm going to ask you about your thoughts on AI and where you think we're headed. But I've seen something interesting, which I don't know if this is something that resonates with you as well. I've seen a bit of a trend where the more experienced developers or more senior developers I talk to seem to be a bit more calm and less concerned. Whereas I would consider myself as less experienced, and I feel, like, kind of more anxious, more nervous, more jumping on the bandwagon sort of feeling of keeping an eye on it. So, I guess, with your experience, what are your thoughts on AI? Where do you think we are headed? MARC: That's a big question, and it feels like it's changing month to month. It feels way more interesting than other trends before. Like, I'm way more excited about the capabilities of AI than, like, NFTs or stuff like this. I'm actively using AI tooling in my app. I was using some AI at Back Market. So, it's interesting. There's a bunch of things you can be doing. Personally, I don't think that it's going to, like, make programming irrelevant, for instance. It will just change a bit how you will build things just like...so, we talked about what changed in the past. For instance, at some point, you would need a team of people moving around physical computers and servers and just hooking them up to be able to have a website. But now, most people would just use a cloud provider. So, all those people either they work for the cloud provider, or they're out of a job. But really what happened is most shifted into something different, and then we focused on something different. Instead of learning how to handle a farm of servers, we learned how to, I don't know, handle more concurrency in our models. And I think when I look back, I feel like, technically, maybe, I don't know, 70%, 80% of what I learned is now useless. Like, I spent years getting really good at handling Internet Explorer as a web developer. Now it's just gone, so it's just gone forever. And it feels like there's some practice that we're having right now that will be gone forever thanks to AI or because of AI, depending on how you look at it. But then there'll be new things to do. I'm not sure yet what it will be, but it will create new opportunities. There are some things that look a bit scary, like, or creepy. But I'm not worried about jobs or things like this. I'm a bit concerned about people learning programming right now because, yeah, there's a lot of hand-holding, and there's a lot of tools that you have to pay to get access to this hand-holding. So, if you're a student right now in school learning programming and your school is giving you some AI assistant, like Copilot or whatever, and this assistant is really good, but suddenly it goes away because you're not paying anymore, or, like, the model change, if you don't know how to code anymore, then it's a problem. Or maybe you're not struggling as much. And you're not digging deep enough, and so you're learning slower. And you're being a bit robbed of the opportunity to learn by the AI. So, it's just giving you the solution. But it's just, like, the way I use it right now, so I don't have an assistant enabled, but I usually have, like, a ChatGPT window open somewhere. It's more like a better Stack Overflow or a more precise Stack Overflow. And that helps me a lot, and that's really convenient. Like, right now, I'm building mostly using Swift and Swift UI, but I'm mainly a Ruby and JavaScript developer. So, I'm struggling a lot and being able to ask really simple questions. I had a case just this morning where I asked how to handle loading of images without using the assets folder in Xcode. I just couldn't figure it out, but it's really simple. So, it was able to tell me, like, right away, like, five options on how to do it, and I was able to pick the one that would fit. So, yeah, really interesting, but yeah, I'm not that worried. The only part I would be worried is if people are learning right now and relying way too much on AI. RÉMY: Well, at least it's positive for our job. Thank you for making us believe in a bright future, Marc. MARC: [laughs] RÉMY: All right. Thank you so much, Marc, for joining us. It was a real pleasure. Before we leave, Marc, if you want to be contacted, if people want to get a hold of you, how can you be contacted? MARC: There's two ways: either LinkedIn, look up Marc G Gauthier. Like, the middle initial is important because Marc Gauthier is basically John Smith in France. My website, which is marcgg.com. You can find my blog. You can find a way to hire me as a coach or advisor. That's the best way to reach out to me. RÉMY: Thank you so much. And thank you, Sami, as well. You can subscribe to the show and find notes along with a complete transcript for this episode at giantrobots.fm. If you have any questions or comments, you can email us at hosts@giantrobots.fm. You can find me on social media as rhannequin. This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot and produced and edited by Mandy Moore. Thanks for listening, and see you next time.  AD: Did you know thoughtbot has a referral program? If you introduce us to someone looking for a design or development partner, we will compensate you if they decide to work with us. More info on our website at: tbot.io/referral. Or you can email us at: referrals@thoughtbot.com with any questions.

The Risky Biz main show returns from a break to the traditional internet-melting mess that happens whenever Patrick Gray takes a holiday. Pat and Adam Boileau talk through the week's security news, including: Oh Crowdstrike, no, oh no, honey, no AT&T stored call records on Snowflake and you'll never guess what happened next Squarespace buys Google Domains and makes a hash of it Some but not all of the SECs case against Solarwinds gets thrown out Pity the incident responders digging through a terabyte of Disney Slack dumps Internet Explorer rises from the grave, and it wants SHELLS RAAAAARGH SSHHEEELLLS And much, much more. This week's show is brought to you by Sublime Security, a flexible and modern email security platform. If you're sick of using a black box email security solution, Sublime is a terrific option for you. Show notes Risky Biz News: CrowdStrike faulty update affects 8.5 million Windows systems Low-level cybercriminals are pouncing on CrowdStrike-connected outage | CyberScoop CrowdStrike says flawed update was live for 78 minutes | Cybersecurity Dive Crooks Steal Phone, SMS Records for Nearly All AT&T Customers – Krebs on Security Researchers: Weak Security Defaults Enabled Squarespace Domains Hijacks – Krebs on Security Teenage suspect in MGM Resorts hack arrested in Britain Majority of SEC civil fraud case against SolarWinds dismissed, but core remains | Cybersecurity Dive How Russia-Linked Malware Cut Heat to 600 Ukrainian Buildings in Deep Winter | WIRED Kaspersky Lab Closing U.S. Division; Laying Off Workers Hackers Claim to Have Leaked 1.1 TB of Disney Slack Messages | WIRED Wallets tied to CDK ransom group received $25 million two days after attack | CyberScoop UnitedHealth's cyberattack response costs to surpass $2.3B this year | Cybersecurity Dive Ransomware ecosystem fragmenting under law enforcement pressure and distrust Threat actors exploited Windows 0-day for more than a year before Microsoft fixed it | Ars Technica

هادی پرتوی، از تاثیرگذارترین افراد در تکنولوژی و سرمایه‌گذار اولیه در شرکت‌هایی مانند فیسبوک، دراپ‌باکس و ایر‌بی‌ان‌بی است. به‌عنوان مدیرعامل کد دات ارگ، هادی از تجربیات خود در مایکروسافت و هدایت پروژه اینترنت اکسپلورر و همکاری با بزرگان فناوری مانند بیل گیتس و استیو بالمر می‌گویدHadi Partovi, a tech titan and influential early investor in companies like Facebook, SpaceX, Dropbox, and Airbnb. As the CEO of Code.org, Hadi shares insights from his time at Microsoft leading the Internet Explorer project and working alongside tech giants like Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer.====================Hadi Partovi | هادی پرتویhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hadip/====================طبقه ۱۶Castbox https://castbox.fm/channel/id3083907Spotify https://spoti.fi/2CiyRoHhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/soh3ilhttps://www.instagram.com/soh3ilEverywhere else https://linktr.ee/tabaghe16====================#پادکست #طبقه۱۶ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.