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Chris Cser and Joe Lynch discuss global giants - ICAT moves the world's largest cargo. Chris is the Director of Operations at ICAT Logistics Detroit where they handle the shipments that other companies don't, can't, and won't. Summary: Global Giants: ICAT Moves the World's Largest Cargo In this podcast, Chris Cser, Director of Operations at ICAT Logistics, takes us on a journey through the complex world of global logistics. Founded in 1992 in Baltimore, ICAT Logistics has expanded across the United States and Europe, specializing in handling unusual, high-value, and oversized freight that often falls outside the scope of standard containerized shipping. Chris shares his personal story of entering the logistics industry and delves into the intricacies of project cargo, from moving entire assembly lines across continents to navigating the challenges of transporting oversized, heavy, and hazardous materials. He also discusses the importance of having a logistics partner with global expertise and the ability to provide flexible shipping options in the face of unexpected disruptions. Throughout the podcast, Chris emphasizes the need for companies to ensure compliance and ethical practices in their global supply chains, highlighting the severe consequences of non-compliance in today's transparent world. Finally, he touches on his company's role as the preferred logistics carrier for the National Guard and their involvement in upcoming events. #ProjectCargoLogistics #GlobalTransportationExpertise #SpecializedFreightSolutions About Chris Cser Chris's expertise in global logistics is tied to his experience growing up and marrying into a military family. That background has helped him build the skills to develop a worldwide network of trusted partners over the past three decades. His leadership in international logistics is enhanced by his continuous education including extensive travel in Europe, Asia, Mexico and the Middle East to see port operations for himself. In his off hours, Chris is a sports enthusiast who enjoys cooking. As the father of a son with Coffin Siris Syndrome, Chris devotes significant time to advocating on behalf of people with CSS and Autism. About ICAT Logistics ICAT Logistics Detroit is family-owned and operated and has been since its inception more than 30 years ago when it was created to ensure safe, secure and timely delivery of goods. Customers have come to depend on the experience, knowledge and capabilities of ICAT Logistics Detroit and its established partnerships around the world. Their team always finds a way to get the job done. It's the result of years of working together and building a worldwide network of resources and relationships to solve complex shipping challenges. The experts at ICAT Logistics Detroit know that every shipment is mission critical to our customers, who represent a wide range of companies from multinationals to family-owned enterprises and start-ups. We think through the critical details so that they don't have to. The best routes. The most efficient modes of transport. Getting through customs. Packaging bulky loads. Warehousing, if necessary. Key Takeaways: Global Giants: ICAT Moves the World's Largest Cargo Discover how ICAT Logistics has expanded across the United States and Europe over the past 30 years. Learn about the complexities of handling unusual, high-value, and oversized global transportation. Explore the challenges and regulations involved in transporting oversized, heavy, and hazardous materials. Understand the importance of precise project management and sequencing when moving entire assembly lines and manufacturing equipment. Gain insights into the evolving regulations and safety concerns surrounding the transportation of lithium batteries. Recognize the significance of having a logistics partner with global expertise and flexible shipping options. Appreciate the complexities of moving freight internationally, including regulations, customs clearance, and multiple parties involved. Timestamps (00:00:02) ICAT Moves the World's Largest Cargo (00:01:52) Navigating the Challenges of Global Logistics (00:03:14) Chris Cser's Journey into Logistics (00:04:44) Defining Project Cargo: High Value, High Consequences (00:07:05) Moving Manufacturing Equipment Across the Globe (00:08:51) Moving Big, Bold, and Hazardous Freight (00:13:14) Lithium Batteries: A Hot Topic in Freight (00:19:18) International Customs can be Challenging (00:19:48) Navigating Global Logistics Challenges with Flexibility (00:26:06) Navigating the Complexities of Global Logistics (00:29:32) Ensuring Compliance in Global Supply Chains (00:32:18) Navigating the Complexities of Project Cargo (00:37:56) National Guard Logistics with Chris Cser Learn More About Global Giants: ICAT Moves the World's Largest Cargo Chris Cser | Linkedin ICAT Logistics: Detroit Agency | Logistics ICAT Logistics Mission Accomplished: Beating The Clock With An Oversized Cross-Border Delivery | ICAT In Perfect Harmony: Icat's Custom Shipping For The United States Air Force (Usaf) Band's Precious Cargo | ICAT Oversized Fire Truck To Iraq | ICAT EV Charging Stations Get A Boost From Icat Logistics Detroit | ICAT The Logistics of Logistics Podcast If you enjoy the podcast, please leave a positive review, subscribe, and share it with your friends and colleagues. The Logistics of Logistics Podcast: Google, Apple, Castbox, Spotify, Stitcher, PlayerFM, Tunein, Podbean, Owltail, Libsyn, Overcast Check out The Logistics of Logistics on Youtube
Scott and Wes sit down with Cassie Evans of GSAP to talk all things animation—from SVGs and scroll timelines to GSAP's new rebrand and exciting features. They also dig into performance, plugins, and what makes GSAP such a powerful tool for web developers. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 00:59 What is GSAP? Cassie Codes. 01:53 GSAP Rebranding. 04:44 GSAP under the hood. 05:29 The big announcement! 07:19 GSAP Showcase. 11:01 Brought to you by Sentry.io. 11:26 Why is GSAP easier for animations? GSAP Docs. 12:38 Animating with SVGs. 13:33 The love of SVG. 14:55 GSAP is performant. 16:06 Gotchas to watch out for. 18:12 Does GSAP work with canvas? 19:02 What GSAP projects are you most proud of? 20:30 Does it play nice with web frameworks? GSAP with React. 22:32 What are you excited about in CSS right now? Scroll Timeline. 24:27 Will any of these make their way into GSAP? 26:31 Timelines. 29:24 Building animations with timelines. 34:55 What are the best GSAP plugins? Split Text spanran-wrap. Physics 2D Plugin. 38:44 GSAP docs and philosophy. 39:50 Scrubbing animations by frame. 41:09 GSAP Video Exporter. 41:45 Animating with JavaScript. 45:19 JavaScript in unconventional applications. 47:56 Is there anything missing in web tech? 50:53 What about AI in GSAP? 52:40 Sick Picks + Shameless Plugs. Sick Picks Cassie: Eyesy Video Synthesis. Shameless Plugs Cassie: Smashing Conf. Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads
Aprende cómo crear una app con Vibe Coding y la IA de Hostinger Horizons.
On this episode, JJ Redick, Lebron and the Lakers are bounced in the first round of the playoffs. Lebron struggled and couldn't lead a team once again. And finger pointing is already happening. The GOAT debate can finally once and for all be put to rest. Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
link Трек-лист: 01. Kelis — Trick Me 02. CSS — Alala 03. Betty Boo — Where Are You Baby? 04. Deep Dish, Everything But The Girl — The Future Of The Future 05. TV On The Radio — Happy Idiot 06. Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds — Red Right Hand (Sllash Remix) 07. Joe … Продолжить чтение Lofstrom loop 407 (03.05.2025)
Join Kevin from The New Warehouse as he sits down with Zach Steck, Market Specialist for Material Handling at Pepperl+Fuchs, and Phil Varley, CTO at Tenivus from the MHI Headquarters. This insightful discussion explores the integration of AI and robotics into conveyor systems, focusing on AI applications, quality control, predictive maintenance, and industry trends. Gain valuable insights into how AI and advanced sensor technologies can optimize your warehouse operations, enhance productivity, and lower maintenance costs.Learn more about the CSS industry group here: https://www.mhi.org/cssLearn more about Zebra Robotics here. Follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube.Digital Disruption with Geoff Nielson Discover how technology is reshaping our lives and livelihoods.Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the show
BWP is Back for his second appearance on CSS! The MLS Legend joins DannyBrams to get into the ups and downs of Wilfried Zaha so far in the 2025 Season and what it's like to adjust to the league when coming over from a career in England. They also talk about the stakes for Charlotte in the MLS Eastern conference ahead of a road trip to Columbus without Pep Biel, and a major fixture crunch in the month of May. It's for the Crown, Baby!
On this episode, JJ Redick, Lebron and the Lakers are bounced in the first round of the playoffs. Lebron struggled and couldn't lead a team once again. And finger pointing is already happening. The GOAT debate can finally once and for all be put to rest. Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In this episode of Somewhat Useful, Will and Christy talk about how they are using AI in their workflows and share a couple platform updates from Squarespace. Then they chat with CSS expert Chris Schwartz-Edmisten about his journey from coding to photoshop mockups to helping clients customize their Squarespace websites. Chris shares insights on content marketing strategies, diversifying income streams, and balancing client work with educational content.Sponsor: SquareKickerWhat if you could have unlimited creativity on Squarespace? The SquareKicker Pro Extension gives you powerful design control, with an intuitive, visual UI right inside your Squarespace editor.Created by designers, for designers, over 100 no-code tools empower you to customize Squarespace far beyond its native capabilities. Visit squarekicker.com for a free trial—no credit card required. Use SOMEWHAT15 to get 15% off all SquareKicker products today.Learn MoreLinks: Chris' websiteCustom Layouts in Squarespace courseCSS CourseChris' YouTube ChannelGenerative Fill Tutorial
Thank you for tuning into Welcome to Group Therapy. We are proud of the 136 episodes we were able to come together to make as 4 mental health professionals. We are also beyond grateful for your listens, likes, comments, and love you showed over the years of the creation of the pod.You can continue to follow MOST of us:Dr. Justin Puder @amoderntherapistDr. Jessica Rabon @jessicaleighphdKristen Gingrich LCSW, CADC, CSS @notyouraveragethrpst
On this episode, Shedeur Sanders did not get drafted in the first round. Lots of "experts" think he should of been. What could be the reason he has fallen so much? Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
On this episode, Shedeur Sanders did not get drafted in the first round. Lots of "experts" think he should of been. What could be the reason he has fallen so much? Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In this episode, I talk with Gabriella Laster, Product Marketing Director at Elementor, about the upcoming Elementor v4 release. Gabriella explains why a major codebase rewrite was needed, highlighting significant performance improvements, a new CSS-first approach, more intuitive UI changes, and enhanced workflow features. She reassures existing users that v3 and v4 will coexist, ensuring a smooth transition without breaking sites. The episode also covers their commitment to developer documentation, ongoing user education, and no planned pricing changes. You can expect incremental rollouts throughout 2025 with opportunities to participate in early testing. If you rely on Elementor for your livelihood, or even just your own website, and want to know what Elementor v4 will mean for you, this episode is for you.
I loved this conversation with Rick and Tisha! I recommend their book and connecting with them!About RickRick Butterworth is a founder, product designer, and developer who has dedicated just under two decades to revolutionizing user interactions and learning experiences in online applications. With a strong background in UX/UI, front-end development, and product management, Rick possesses a versatile skill set that drives innovation and creates meaningful impact. Rick's journey began at the University of Salford, where he cultivated Visual Basic Script and Aviation Technology skills. Overcoming dyslexia, he embraced his unique learning style, which ultimately fueled his determination to succeed and help learners who struggle with their learning challenges. In his early twenties, Rick began his entrepreneurship by looking for a solution to a problem and developing his first software application, which is used by aviation enthusiasts. He then founded a successful web design and development company catering to diverse industries such as technology, aviation, photography, and media. Additionally, his expertise encompasses wireframing, prototyping, and interactive design, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, PHP, and React programming languages. www.rickbutterworth.comhttps://iste.org/tomorrowleaders (along with Amazon, Target, B&N, etc)Rick's website is www.rickbutterworth.comAbout TishaTisha Poncio received her M.S. in Learning Technologies from the University of North Texas in 2019, expanding her passion to inspire learners, educators, and leaders. With over two decades of dedicated service in the education and instructional design fields, Tisha's energy and enthusiasm have fueled her success as a teacher, digital learning coach, learner, and leader. Throughout her career, Tisha has left a lasting impact on her students, guiding them in subjects ranging from Web Design, Graphic Design, Business Computers, and Programming to English, Broadcast Journalism, and Entrepreneurship. In addition to her exceptional work as a classroom teacher, she served as an innovative digital learning specialist for over 12 years, leading and inspiring fellow educators and administrators with meaningful technology integration and instructional design that supports all learners. Tisha's commitment to staying at the forefront of educational and emerging technologies is evident throughout her journey. She was named a TCEA [Texas Computer Education Association] finalist for the Instructional Technology Specialist of the Year award in 2018 and contributed a chapter to the EduMatch 2020 Snapshot in Education: Remote Learning Edition. She continues seeking opportunities that support and empower students, teachers, and leaderswww.tishaponcio.com@tishaponcio on all social media and her website is www.tishaponcio.com About RachelleEducator, Keynote Speaker, Consultant, Attorney, and AuthorSubscribe to the podcast and my newsletter.Also, check out my blog and submit a guest blog.Contact me for speaking and training related to AI, AI and the law, Cybersecurity, SEL, STEM, and World Language Educator training for each of these topics as well! bit.ly/thriveineduPDIf you're interested in a sponsored podcast or collaboration, please contact me for details.
应邀蒙纳字库，主播 Eric 在上海举办的「Brand Talks 2025 蒙纳字体与品牌论坛」主题论坛发表演讲，与大家探讨分析企业品牌及 web 用户体验中的字体排印问题。 参考链接 「Brand Talks 2025 蒙纳字体与品牌论坛」视频回顾 TDC71 设计竞赛将于 5 月 13 日在纽约举办优胜者展览 W3C《中文排版需求》 The Type 书单 小林章（著），刘庆（译）．《西文字体设计方法：如何打造优美的曲线与舒适的排版》．上海人民美术出版社，2024 年 高冈昌生（著），刘庆（译）．《西文排版：字体排印的基础与规则（增补修订版）》．上海人民美术出版社，2025 年 TypePro: Shanghai 2016 阿里巴巴普惠体，阿里巴巴出品的免费商用字体家族；其中拉丁字符部分 Alibaba Sans 由蒙纳字库合作设计开发 MiSans Global，小米联合蒙纳字库、汉仪字库共同设计开发的多文种字体家族 蒙纳字库 2024 年举办的线上讲座「别让字体毁掉你的网站：网页字体初探」 字谈字畅 014：□□␣□□ CSS text-autospace 特性 孔雀计划：中文字体排印的思路 主讲 Eric：字体排印研究者，译者，The Type 执行编辑 欢迎与我们交流或反馈，来信请致 podcast@thetype.com。如果你喜爱本期节目，也欢迎用支付宝向我们捐赠：hello@thetype.com。
On this episode, Shedeur Sanders and Travis Hunter got their jersey's retired at Colorado's spring game. Only after a 13-12 record while at Colorado. The Athletic director claims they changed the program. Did they deserve to have their jersey retired? Was it only because Deion Sanders is the head football coach? Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
On this episode, Shedeur Sanders and Travis Hunter got their jersey's retired at Colorado's spring game. Only after a 13-12 record while at Colorado. The Athletic director claims they changed the program. Did they deserve to have their jersey retired? Was it only because Deion Sanders is the head football coach? Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In the sixteenth episode of Circling Seattle Sports' weekly Seattle Kraken show, Keeping up with the Seattle Kraken, CSS Kraken beat writer Jayd Serdy joins CSS founder and editor-in-chief Charles Hamaker to discuss the final game of the 2024-25 season for the Kraken, exit interviews, discussions from Tod Leiweke before that last game of the season, and much more."Keeping up with the Kraken" is Circling Seattle Sports' weekly show/podcast covering the Seattle Kraken, as CSS Kraken beat writers Silvia Leija-Rosas and Jayd Serdy join CSS founder and editor-in-chief Charles Hamaker weekly to discuss Kraken news, rumors, and other information around the team throughout the year. Circling Seattle Sports is a credentialed media outlet that covers over 30 teams in the greater Seattle area, so you know you're getting legitimate Seattle sports coverage from people who know what they're talking about.
In this weeks episode of Circling Seattle Sports' weekly Seattle Mariners show, Mariner Mondays, CSS Mariners beat writer Brittany Wisner and CSS Seahawks beat writer Jake Parr join CSS founder and editor-in-chief Charles Hamaker to discuss the last two series for the Mariners, key performances from Ben Williamson and Rowdy Tellez, and much more."Mariner Mondays" is Circling Seattle Sports' weekly show/podcast covering the Seattle Mariners, as CSS Mariners beat writer Brittany Wisner and CSS Seahawks beat writer Jake Parr join CSS founder and editor-in-chief Charles Hamaker weekly to discuss Mariners news, rumors, and other information around the team throughout the year. Circling Seattle Sports is a credentialed media outlet that covers over 30 teams in the greater Seattle area, so you know you're getting legitimate Seattle sports coverage from people who know what they're talking about.
Psalm 48:9–14, Luke 19:45–20:26, Deuteronomy 31:30–32:52 In each of today's passages, we see first something general about the way in which God guides us, and then specific examples of each of these ‘five CSs'.
Psalm 48:9–14, Luke 19:45–46; 20:1–25, Deuteronomy 32:10–12 In each of today's passages, we see first something general about the way in which God guides us, and then specific examples of each of these ‘five CSs'.
Psalm 48:9–14, Luke 19:45–46; 20:1–25, Deuteronomy 32:10–12 In each of today's passages, we see first something general about the way in which God guides us, and then specific examples of each of these ‘five CSs'.
On this episode, Zach Keilman joins for our Bear Down segment. The Chicago Bears wasted no time and signing good players from free agency. Are they are the right track? Does this mean the Bears will be...good? We also do our own mock draft for the Bears! #beardown #benjohnson #chicagobears #lions Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
On this episode, we discuss the Nico Imaleava situation. Talk about the publics take on how this has unfolded. And how college football needs to change. Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
On this episode, Zach Keilman joins for our Bear Down segment. The Chicago Bears wasted no time and signing good players from free agency. Are they are the right track? Does this mean the Bears will be...good? We also do our own mock draft for the Bears! #beardown #benjohnson #chicagobears #lions Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
On this episode, we discuss the Nico Imaleava situation. Talk about the publics take on how this has unfolded. And how college football needs to change. Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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In the aftermath of the fall of Saigon in 1975, Lincoln was designated a "Refugee Friendly" city. This designation marked the beginning of a thriving Vietnamese community that continues to leave a lasting impact on Lincoln and the state. CSS helped resettle 257 Vietnamese refugees within the Diocese of Lincoln that year, mostly in Lincoln but also in Hastings. Among those first arrivals was Alex Tran, who was around 10 years old when his family, along with more than 20 relatives, arrived in Lincoln. Alex reminisces with us about that escape from his home country and what that experience was like through the eyes of a child.
In this episode, we deliver on their promise from the previous show — a wishlist of features they'd love to see in Power Pages (and none of them are AI). It's a mix of practical frustrations from real-world projects and some wild ideas for future innovation. What did we talk about? George's standing desk automation project — powered by Python, Bluetooth, and (eventually) Power Platform. Imagine your desk going up automatically before every meeting! Top Power Pages wishlist items: API to clear the cache — long-requested, simple sounding, yet still missing. Modern Forms — it's time to modernize the end-user experience beyond Bootstrap upgrades. Support for Quick View and Quick Create forms — why only Main forms? Multi-step form improvements — allow skipping between steps, especially when there are no conditions. Bring back Front-Side Editing — content editing without admin rights is a must for real CMS scenarios. Power Automate integration in forms and lists — run flows like classic workflows directly from UI. Framework agnostic design — let's dream big: support Tailwind, Foundation, or other CSS frameworks beyond Bootstrap. What's next? How about a tour of Power Pages features that already exist — but almost nobody uses. Credits Cover image by chatGPT (inspired by terrible prompts) References rhyst/linak-controller: A Python script to control Linak standing desks Get in touch voice@crm.audio Nick Hayduk @Engineered_Code George Doubinski @georgedude
Show DescriptionFollow up on thoughts about teaching CSS from scratch, questions about conferences to attend as well as a way to kickstart a conference idea, some Balatro thoughts, and our thoughts on the recent Grid vs Masonry debate. Listen on Website →Links The Homebrewery - NaturalCrit SmashingConf in-person Conferences 2025 — Friendly, inclusive & fun events for web designers and developers. - SmashingConf New York, Freiburg, Antwerp and Online Web Design Event State of the Browser 13 Bring live to life Sponsors
Guillermo Rauch is the founder and CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 (one of the most popular AI app building tools), and the mind behind foundational JavaScript frameworks like Next.js and Socket.io. An open source pioneer and legendary engineer, Guillermo has built tools that power some of the internet's most innovative products, including Midjourney, Grok, and Notion. His mission is to democratize product creation, expanding the pool of potential builders from 5 million developers to over 100 million people worldwide. In this episode, you'll learn:1. How AI will radically speed up product development—and the three critical skills PMs and engineers should master now to stay ahead2. Why the future of building apps is shifting toward prompts instead of code, and how that affects traditional product teams3. Specific ways to improve your design “taste,” plus practical tips to consistently create beautiful, user-loved products4. How Guillermo built a powerful app in under two hours for $20 (while flying and using plane Wi-Fi) that would normally take weeks and thousands of dollars in engineering time5. The exact strategies Vercel uses internally to leverage AI tools like v0 and Cursor, enabling their team of 600 to ship faster and better than ever before6. Guillermo's actionable advice on increasing your product quality through rapid iteration, real-world user feedback, and creating intentional “exposure hours” for your team—Brought to you by:• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Vanta — Automate compliance. Simplify security• LinkedIn Ads—Reach professionals and drive results for your business—Where to find Guillermo Rauch:• X: https://x.com/rauchg• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rauchg/• Website: https://rauchg.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Guillermo Rauch(04:43) v0's mission(07:03) The impact and growth of v0(15:54) The future of product development with AI(19:05) Empowering engineers and product builders(24:01) Skills for the future: coding, math, and eloquence(35:05) v0 in action: real-world applications(36:40) Tips for using v0 effectively(45:46) Core skills for building AI apps(49:44) Live demo(59:45) Understanding how AI thinks(01:04:35) AI integration and future prospects(01:07:22) Building taste(01:13:43) Limitations of v0(01:16:54) Improving the design of your product(01:20:09) The secret to product quality(01:22:35) Vercel's AI-driven development(01:25:43) Guillermo's vision for the future—Referenced:• v0: https://v0.dev/• Vercel: https://vercel.com/• GitHub: https://github.com/• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/• Next.js Framework: https://nextjs.org/• Claude: https://claude.ai/new• Grok: https://x.ai/• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com• SocketIO: https://socket.io/• Notion's lost years, its near collapse during Covid, staying small to move fast, the joy and suffering of building horizontal, more | Ivan Zhao (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-notion-ivan-zhao• Notion: https://www.notion.com/• Automattic: https://automattic.com/• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder & CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons• v0 Community: https://v0.dev/chat/community• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• Git Commit: https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/saving-changes/git-commit• What are Artifacts and how do I use them?: https://support.anthropic.com/en/articles/9487310-what-are-artifacts-and-how-do-i-use-them• Design Engineering at Vercel: https://vercel.com/blog/design-engineering-at-vercel• CSS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS• Tailwind: https://tailwindcss.com/• Wordcel / Shape Rotator / Mathcel: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/wordcel-shape-rotator-mathcel• Steve Jobs's Ultimate Lesson for Companies: https://hbr.org/2011/08/steve-jobss-ultimate-lesson-fo• Bloom Hackathon: https://bloom.build/• Expenses Should Do Themselves | Saquon Barkley x Ramp (Super Bowl Ad): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Tgsy7D0Jg• Velocity over everything: How Ramp became the fastest-growing SaaS startup of all time | Geoff Charles (VP of Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/velocity-over-everything-how-ramp• JavaScript: https://www.javascript.com/• React: https://react.dev/• Mapbox: https://www.mapbox.com/• Leaflet: https://leafletjs.com/• Escape hatches: https://react.dev/learn/escape-hatches• Supreme: https://supreme.com/• Shadcn: https://ui.shadcn.com/• Charles Schwab: https://www.schwab.com/• Fortune: https://fortune.com/• Semafor: https://www.semafor.com/• AI SDK: https://sdk.vercel.ai/• DeepSeek: https://www.deepseek.com/• Stripe: https://stripe.com/• Vercel templates: https://vercel.com/templates• GC AI: https://getgc.ai/• OpenEvidence: https://www.openevidence.com/• Paris Fashion Week: https://www.fhcm.paris/en/paris-fashion-week• Guillermo's post on X about making great products: https://x.com/rauchg/status/1887314115066274254• Everybody Can Cook billboard: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/evilrabbit_activity-7242975574242037760-uRW9/• Ratatouille: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382932/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies
Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Is SEO still a viable service offering? If you're an SEO agency, are you at risk for extinction? With AI taking over many industries at the moment, it's no wonder people are asking if it's rise means the death of SEO. Today's featured guest is an SEO expert that found her path into the industry after discovering her passion for tech. She discusses how AI is reshaping the SEO industry — not eliminating it, but transforming its execution and potential. The fundamental principles that have always driven search engine optimization continue to matter, though their implementation evolves alongside technological advancement. Tune in to gain insights into how forward-thinking businesses are adapting their SEO strategies to thrive in this new environment, and gain practical insights for navigating this shifting digital terrain. Lindsay Halsey is the owner of Pathfinder SEO an agency that helps clients grow their recurring revenue by getting the system, tools, and training to add SEO services to their agency. She reflects on the early days of SEO, reminisces about outdated practices, and talks about why the rise of artificial intelligence and “alternative search engines” does not mean you should stop investing in SEO. In this episode, we'll discuss: 3 core principles of SEO that haven't changed. Did AI kill SEO? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources Wix: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Wix Studio, the all-in-one platform designed to help agencies scale without the headaches. With intuitive tools, robust native business solutions, and low maintenance, Wix Studio lets your team focus on what matters most—delivering exceptional value to your clients. Ready to take your agency to the next level? Visit wix.com/studio an Turning a Love of Digital Technology into an SEO Agency In the early days of SEO, when tactics like hiding keywords in same-colored backgrounds were still common practice, Lindsay was finding her footing in a vastly different field working as a ski patroller and mountain guide. Her dramatic career shift came through a HTML and CSS course at her local community college that developed a consuming passion for technology. As she devoted increasingly more time to computer work, her hobby naturally transitioned into a professional opportunity, leading to her first position as an SEO account manager at a local agency. After gaining valuable experience during her two-year tenure at the agency, Lindsay took the entrepreneurial leap. Partnering with a colleague and securing their first client, she launched her own business. In retrospect, she knows their initial pricing structure was too conservative—offering SEO and Google Ads services for merely $500. Despite this undervaluation, she's proud of having prioritized recurring revenue from the start, a lesson she took from her years at the previous agency. Unlike project-based work, which often creates financial unpredictability, a subscription model provides the stable financial foundation necessary for strategic planning and sustainable growth. Within the first year of launching their agency, they managed to generate enough recurring revenue to pay themselves salaries that surpassed what they earned in their previous jobs, which was an important victory that helped cement their belief in the business. 3 Core Principles of SEO in 2025: The principles of SEO have undergone significant transformations over the 15 years that Lindsay has been in the space. At its core, however, the values that guide the industry remain and now Google has gotten better as measuring and rewarding them: User experience. You need to have a well-built and secure website that is easy to use and has good design. Genuine experience and expertise. No more getting away with lame content that just repeats keywords. External validation. There have to be external signals that validate a brand's expertise. This includes back links from reputable websites, positive Google reviews, and the establishment of authority figures within the organization. Did AI Kill SEO? The conversation around Search Engine Optimization often oscillates between optimism and skepticism. Lately, it has focused on AI and why its rise means that SEO is dead. Indeed, the rise of AI has also meant a rise of “alternative search engines”. Basically, this means that people are starting to move to ask ChatGPT questions they would have previously asked the Google search engine. The answers provided by AI are rapidly improving, and users will see both advantages and disadvantages in queries answered by AI and answered by Google. For her part, Lindsay has been seeing this fear surge every couple of years in the industry and isn't worried about the inevitable questions of “should I invest in SEO? Will it even be around?” Her answer continues to be a resounding YES. There might be some changes and some trends, but there's still value of ranking in Google and so it will continue to be a part of a business's long-term strategy. Of course, as owner of an SEO agency, Lindsay continues to monitor this rise of alternative search engines and assess where they fall into the industry. It could very well be that they'll be part of the strategy moving forward. For now, her agency continues to help clients navigate that transition by creating content that helps them rank in all searches. Ultimately, SEO is adapting to new technologies and user behaviors, and by understanding and leveraging user behavior, businesses can enhance their SEO efforts, leading to greater visibility and success in the digital marketplace. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.
In an emergency episode of Circling Seattle Sports' weekly UW women's basketball show, "The Husky women's hoops show," CSS Storm writer and contributor Rowan Schaberg joins CSS founder and editor-in-chief Charles Hamaker to discuss the now official transfers of Yulia Grabovskaia and Avery Howell to Washington. "The Husky women's hoops show" is Circling Seattle Sports' weekly show/podcast covering the University of Washington's women's basketball program, as CSS Storm writer and contributor Rowan Schaberg and "The Next" women's basketball writer and CSS contributor Bella Munson join CSS founder and editor-in-chief Charles Hamaker weekly to discuss games, news, rumors, and other information surrounding the program throughout the year. Circling Seattle Sports is a credentialed media outlet that covers over 30 teams in the greater Seattle area, so you know you're getting legitimate Seattle sports coverage from people who know what they're talking about.
初、中等教育所使用的教科书，对于字体或排版有怎样的要求或标准？——本期节目源自一位听众的来信。我们将结合国标文件，以及台湾、香港、新加坡和日本等各地的规范及实践，与大家分享教科书中的中文字体排印准则。 参考链接 Brand Talks 2025 蒙纳字体与品牌论坛「字的点线面：排版艺术与品牌设计」，将于 4 月 11 日在上海举办；Eric 将在活动中发表主题演讲「九年过后，您的西文排版进步了吗？」 「TypeTour HK 2025 香港行」正在招募中，出行日期为 2025 年 4 月 30 日至 5 月 4 日，由厉致谦带队 小林章设计的西文活字字体 AK Renaissance Pb 开始发售；该产品为实体金属活字，铜模由日星铸字行制作，铅字由筑地活字铸造，现可订购 字谈字畅 158：威尼斯城枢机卿 Safari 18.4 开始支持 CSS text-autospace 特性 字谈字畅 220：「我们是不是要先哭一把」 Emoji 16.0 新增字符 GB 40070—2021《儿童青少年学习用品近视防控卫生要求》 GB/T 17227—2014《中小学生教科书卫生要求》 Eric 所撰《Wǒ ài pīnyīn!》，为「孔雀计划」系列文章之一，2017 年刊于 The Type 方正教材规范楷体，专为中小学通用教辅、教材而设计，方正字库出品 国字标准字体 《教育部国民小学及国民中学教科用书印制规格》（2024 年修订版），台湾教育部推行的教科书印制规范 字谈字畅 054：ㄨㄛˇ ㄞˋ ㄓㄨˋ ㄧㄣ 苏炜翔所撰《令人讨厌的标楷体的一生》，刊于 justfont blog 香港特别行政区政府教育局发布的教科书相关信息，其中包括《优质课本基本原则》（2023 年修订版）、《课本编印设计基本原则》及《课本编纂指引》 香港电脑参考字形，由香港中文界面咨询委员会发布 新加坡教育部发布的《小学华文课程标准》（2024 年版） 日本文部省发布的「小学学习指导要领」及《学年別漢字配当表》（各学年汉字分配表） Universal design（通用设计） 主播 Eric：字体排印研究者，译者，The Type 执行编辑 蒸鱼：设计师，The Type 编辑 欢迎与我们交流或反馈，来信请致 podcast@thetype.com。如果你喜爱本期节目，也欢迎用支付宝向我们捐赠：hello@thetype.com。
Igalia's Brian Kardell chats with Chris Lilley, Technical Director at the W3C, about his long history with the Web and the W3C, ranging from line-mode browsers to CSS to SVG and more.
Aplica a una asesoría de planificación de inversiones sin costo para asegurar tu retiro
Light mode? Dark mode? Scott and Wes break down the best ways to implement theme switching in CSS, from prefers-color-scheme to manual overrides. Plus, tips on handling shadows, icons, and the dreaded flash of dark mode! Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 01:05 Brought to you by Sentry.io. 02:06 Light and dark mode, things to consider. 02:31 Light and dark mode from scratch. drop-in.css. 04:41 Calculations vs assigned color. 05:32 color-mix and relative color. 08:15 Foreground and background variables. –tint-or-shade: color-mix(in oklab, var(–fg), transparent 95%); –tint-or-shade-harder: color-mix(in oklab, var(–fg), transparent 90%); 09:13 Setting color scheme. 12:38 light-dark function in CSS. 15:48 Manually setting dark mode. 18:43 The challenges with shared caching. 19:33 Tailwind CSS implementation. Tailwind dark-mode. 19:52 Shoehorning in dark mode. 22:25 Other things to consider. 22:28 Color contrast. Lea Verou contrast-color. 24:39 Logos. 25:22 Icons and images. 26:20 Accessibility. Polypane. Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads
Show DescriptionAdam Argyle joins us to chat about new CSS features that are demo'd in a carousel configurator - a builder-like experience to help visualize the capabilities of a CSS only Carousel: buttons, markers, paging and inertness. Listen on Website →GuestsAdam ArgyleGuest's Main URL • Guest's SocialCSS at Google. Links Chrome Canary Features Demo Space CSS Carousel Configurator Black Emperor Sponsors
Brandon Liu is an open source developer and creator of the Protomaps basemap project. We talk about how static maps help developers build sites that last, the PMTiles file format, the role of OpenStreetMap, and his experience funding and running an open source project full time. Protomaps Protomaps PMTiles (File format used by Protomaps) Self-hosted slippy maps, for novices (like me) Why Deploy Protomaps on a CDN User examples Flickr Pinball Map Toilet Map Related projects OpenStreetMap (Dataset protomaps is based on) Mapzen (Former company that released details on what to display based on zoom levels) Mapbox GL JS (Mapbox developed source available map rendering library) MapLibre GL JS (Open source fork of Mapbox GL JS) Other links HTTP range requests (MDN) Hilbert curve Transcript You can help correct transcripts on GitHub. Intro [00:00:00] Jeremy: I'm talking to Brandon Liu. He's the creator of Protomaps, which is a way to easily create and host your own maps. Let's get into it. [00:00:09] Brandon: Hey, so thanks for having me on the podcast. So I'm Brandon. I work on an open source project called Protomaps. What it really is, is if you're a front end developer and you ever wanted to put maps on a website or on a mobile app, then Protomaps is sort of an open source solution for doing that that I hope is something that's way easier to use than, um, a lot of other open source projects. Why not just use Google Maps? [00:00:36] Jeremy: A lot of people are gonna be familiar with Google Maps. Why should they worry about whether something's open source? Why shouldn't they just go and use the Google maps API? [00:00:47] Brandon: So Google Maps is like an awesome thing it's an awesome product. Probably one of the best tech products ever right? And just to have a map that tells you what restaurants are open and something that I use like all the time especially like when you're traveling it has all that data. And the most amazing part is that it's free for consumers but it's not necessarily free for developers. Like if you wanted to embed that map onto your website or app, that usually has an API cost which still has a free tier and is affordable. But one motivation, one basic reason to use open source is if you have some project that doesn't really fit into that pricing model. You know like where you have to pay the cost of Google Maps, you have a side project, a nonprofit, that's one reason. But there's lots of other reasons related to flexibility or customization where you might want to use open source instead. Protomaps examples [00:01:49] Jeremy: Can you give some examples where people have used Protomaps and where that made sense for them? [00:01:56] Brandon: I follow a lot of the use cases and I also don't know about a lot of them because I don't have an API where I can track a hundred percent of the users. Some of them use the hosted version, but I would say most of them probably use it on their own infrastructure. One of the cool projects I've been seeing is called Toilet Map. And what toilet map is if you're in the UK and you want find a public restroom then it maps out, sort of crowdsourced all of the public restrooms. And that's important for like a lot of people if they have health issues, they need to find that information. And just a lot of different projects in the same vein. There's another one called Pinball Map which is sort of a hobby project to find all the pinball machines in the world. And they wanted to have a customized map that fit in with their theme of pinball. So these sorts of really cool indie projects are the ones I'm most excited about. Basemaps vs Overlays [00:02:57] Jeremy: And if we talk about, like the pinball map as an example, there's this concept of a basemap and then there's the things that you lay on top of it. What is a basemap and then is the pinball locations is that part of it or is that something separate? [00:03:12] Brandon: It's usually something separate. The example I usually use is if you go to a real estate site, like Zillow, you'll open up the map of Seattle and it has a bunch of pins showing all the houses, and then it has some information beneath it. That information beneath it is like labels telling, this neighborhood is Capitol Hill, or there is a park here. But all that information is common to a lot of use cases and it's not specific to real estate. So I think usually that's the distinction people use in the industry between like a base map versus your overlay. The overlay is like the data for your product or your company while the base map is something you could get from Google or from Protomaps or from Apple or from Mapbox that kind of thing. PMTiles for hosting the basemap and overlays [00:03:58] Jeremy: And so Protomaps in particular is responsible for the base map, and that information includes things like the streets and the locations of landmarks and things like that. Where is all that information coming from? [00:04:12] Brandon: So the base map information comes from a project called OpenStreetMap. And I would also, point out that for Protomaps as sort of an ecosystem. You can also put your overlay data into a format called PMTiles, which is sort of the core of what Protomaps is. So it can really do both. It can transform your data into the PMTiles format which you can host and you can also host the base map. So you kind of have both of those sides of the product in one solution. [00:04:43] Jeremy: And so when you say you have both are you saying that the PMTiles file can have, the base map in one file and then you would have the data you're laying on top in another file? Or what are you describing there? [00:04:57] Brandon: That's usually how I recommend to do it. Oftentimes there'll be sort of like, a really big basemap 'cause it has all of that data about like where the rivers are. Or while, if you want to put your map of toilets or park benches or pickleball courts on top, that's another file. But those are all just like assets you can move around like JSON or CSV files. Statically Hosted [00:05:19] Jeremy: And I think one of the things you mentioned was that your goal was to make Protomaps or the, the use of these PMTiles files easy to use. What does that look like for, for a developer? I wanna host a map. What do I actually need to, to put on my servers? [00:05:38] Brandon: So my usual pitch is that basically if you know how to use S3 or cloud storage, that you know how to deploy a map. And that, I think is the main sort of differentiation from most open source projects. Like a lot of them, they call themselves like, like some sort of self-hosted solution. But I've actually avoided using the term self-hosted because I think in most cases that implies a lot of complexity. Like you have to log into a Linux server or you have to use Kubernetes or some sort of Docker thing. What I really want to emphasize is the idea that, for Protomaps, it's self-hosted in the same way like CSS is self-hosted. So you don't really need a service from Amazon to host the JSON files or CSV files. It's really just a static file. [00:06:32] Jeremy: When you say static file that means you could use any static web host to host your HTML file, your JavaScript that actually renders the map. And then you have your PMTiles files, and you're not running a process or anything, you're just putting your files on a static file host. [00:06:50] Brandon: Right. So I think if you're a developer, you can also argue like a static file server is a server. It's you know, it's the cloud, it's just someone else's computer. It's really just nginx under the hood. But I think static storage is sort of special. If you look at things like static site generators, like Jekyll or Hugo, they're really popular because they're a commodity or like the storage is a commodity. And you can take your blog, make it a Jekyll blog, hosted on S3. One day, Amazon's like, we're charging three times as much so you can move it to a different cloud provider. And that's all vendor neutral. So I think that's really the special thing about static storage as a primitive on the web. Why running servers is a problem for resilience [00:07:36] Jeremy: Was there a prior experience you had? Like you've worked with maps for a very long time. Were there particular difficulties you had where you said I just gotta have something that can be statically hosted? [00:07:50] Brandon: That's sort of exactly why I got into this. I've been working sort of in and around the map space for over a decade, and Protomaps is really like me trying to solve the same problem I've had over and over again in the past, just like once and forever right? Because like once this problem is solved, like I don't need to deal with it again in the future. So I've worked at a couple of different companies before, mostly as a contractor, for like a humanitarian nonprofit for a design company doing things like, web applications to visualize climate change. Or for even like museums, like digital signage for museums. And oftentimes they had some sort of data visualization component, but always sort of the challenge of how to like, store and also distribute like that data was something that there wasn't really great open source solutions. So just for map data, that's really what motivated that design for Protomaps. [00:08:55] Jeremy: And in those, those projects in the past, were those things where you had to run your own server, run your own database, things like that? [00:09:04] Brandon: Yeah. And oftentimes we did, we would spin up an EC2 instance, for maybe one client and then we would have to host this server serving map data forever. Maybe the client goes away, or I guess it's good for business if you can sign some sort of like long-term support for that client saying, Hey, you know, like we're done with a project, but you can pay us to maintain the EC2 server for the next 10 years. And that's attractive. but it's also sort of a pain, because usually what happens is if people are given the choice, like a developer between like either I can manage the server on EC2 or on Rackspace or Hetzner or whatever, or I can go pay a SaaS to do it. In most cases, businesses will choose to pay the SaaS. So that's really like what creates a sort of lock-in is this preference for like, so I have this choice between like running the server or paying the SaaS. Like businesses will almost always go and pay the SaaS. [00:10:05] Jeremy: Yeah. And in this case, you either find some kind of free hosting or low-cost hosting just to host your files and you upload the files and then you're good from there. You don't need to maintain anything. [00:10:18] Brandon: Exactly, and that's really the ideal use case. so I have some users these, climate science consulting agencies, and then they might have like a one-off project where they have to generate the data once, but instead of having to maintain this server for the lifetime of that project, they just have a file on S3 and like, who cares? If that costs a couple dollars a month to run, that's fine, but it's not like S3 is gonna be deprecated, like it's gonna be on an insecure version of Ubuntu or something. So that's really the ideal, set of constraints for using Protomaps. [00:10:58] Jeremy: Yeah. Something this also makes me think about is, is like the resilience of sites like remaining online, because I, interviewed, Kyle Drake, he runs Neocities, which is like a modern version of GeoCities. And if I remember correctly, he was mentioning how a lot of old websites from that time, if they were running a server backend, like they were running PHP or something like that, if you were to try to go to those sites, now they're like pretty much all dead because there needed to be someone dedicated to running a Linux server, making sure things were patched and so on and so forth. But for static sites, like the ones that used to be hosted on GeoCities, you can go to the internet archive or other websites and they were just files, right? You can bring 'em right back up, and if anybody just puts 'em on a web server, then you're good. They're still alive. Case study of news room preferring static hosting [00:11:53] Brandon: Yeah, exactly. One place that's kind of surprising but makes sense where this comes up, is for newspapers actually. Some of the users using Protomaps are the Washington Post. And the reason they use it, is not necessarily because they don't want to pay for a SaaS like Google, but because if they make an interactive story, they have to guarantee that it still works in a couple of years. And that's like a policy decision from like the editorial board, which is like, so you can't write an article if people can't view it in five years. But if your like interactive data story is reliant on a third party, API and that third party API becomes deprecated, or it changes the pricing or it, you know, it gets acquired, then your journalism story is not gonna work anymore. So I have seen really good uptake among local news rooms and even big ones to use things like Protomaps just because it makes sense for the requirements. Working on Protomaps as an open source project for five years [00:12:49] Jeremy: How long have you been working on Protomaps and the parts that it's made up of such as PMTiles? [00:12:58] Brandon: I've been working on it for about five years, maybe a little more than that. It's sort of my pandemic era project. But the PMTiles part, which is really the heart of it only came in about halfway. Why not make a SaaS? [00:13:13] Brandon: So honestly, like when I first started it, I thought it was gonna be another SaaS and then I looked at it and looked at what the environment was around it. And I'm like, uh, so I don't really think I wanna do that. [00:13:24] Jeremy: When, when you say you looked at the environment around it what do you mean? Why did you decide not to make it a SaaS? [00:13:31] Brandon: Because there already is a lot of SaaS out there. And I think the opportunity of making something that is unique in terms of those use cases, like I mentioned like newsrooms, was clear. Like it was clear that there was some other solution, that could be built that would fit these needs better while if it was a SaaS, there are plenty of those out there. And I don't necessarily think that they're well differentiated. A lot of them all use OpenStreetMap data. And it seems like they mainly compete on price. It's like who can build the best three column pricing model. And then once you do that, you need to build like billing and metrics and authentication and like those problems don't really interest me. So I think, although I acknowledge sort of the indie hacker ethos now is to build a SaaS product with a monthly subscription, that's something I very much chose not to do, even though it is for sure like the best way to build a business. [00:14:29] Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people can appreciate that perspective because it's, it's almost like we have SaaS overload, right? Where you have so many little bills for your project where you're like, another $5 a month, another $10 a month, or if you're a business, right? Those, you add a bunch of zeros and at some point it's just how many of these are we gonna stack on here? [00:14:53] Brandon: Yeah. And honestly. So I really think like as programmers, we're not really like great at choosing how to spend money like a $10 SaaS. That's like nothing. You know? So I can go to Starbucks and I can buy a pumpkin spice latte, and that's like $10 basically now, right? And it's like I'm able to make that consumer choice in like an instant just to spend money on that. But then if you're like, oh, like spend $10 on a SaaS that somebody put a lot of work into, then you're like, oh, that's too expensive. I could just do it myself. So I'm someone that also subscribes to a lot of SaaS products. and I think for a lot of things it's a great fit. Many open source SaaS projects are not easy to self host [00:15:37] Brandon: But there's always this tension between an open source project that you might be able to run yourself and a SaaS. And I think a lot of projects are at different parts of the spectrum. But for Protomaps, it's very much like I'm trying to move maps to being it is something that is so easy to run yourself that anyone can do it. [00:16:00] Jeremy: Yeah, and I think you can really see it with, there's a few SaaS projects that are successful and they're open source, but then you go to look at the self-hosting instructions and it's either really difficult to find and you find it, and then the instructions maybe don't work, or it's really complicated. So I think doing the opposite with Protomaps. As a user, I'm sure we're all appreciative, but I wonder in terms of trying to make money, if that's difficult. [00:16:30] Brandon: No, for sure. It is not like a good way to make money because I think like the ideal situation for an open source project that is open that wants to make money is the product itself is fundamentally complicated to where people are scared to run it themselves. Like a good example I can think of is like Supabase. Supabase is sort of like a platform as a service based on Postgres. And if you wanted to run it yourself, well you need to run Postgres and you need to handle backups and authentication and logging, and that stuff all needs to work and be production ready. So I think a lot of people, like they don't trust themselves to run database backups correctly. 'cause if you get it wrong once, then you're kind of screwed. So I think that fundamental aspect of the product, like a database is something that is very, very ripe for being a SaaS while still being open source because it's fundamentally hard to run. Another one I can think of is like tailscale, which is, like a VPN that works end to end. That's something where, you know, it has this networking complexity where a lot of developers don't wanna deal with that. So they'd happily pay, for tailscale as a service. There is a lot of products or open source projects that eventually end up just changing to becoming like a hosted service. Businesses going from open source to closed or restricted licenses [00:17:58] Brandon: But then in that situation why would they keep it open source, right? Like, if it's easy to run yourself well, doesn't that sort of cannibalize their business model? And I think that's really the tension overall in these open source companies. So you saw it happen to things like Elasticsearch to things like Terraform where they eventually change the license to one that makes it difficult for other companies to compete with them. [00:18:23] Jeremy: Yeah, I mean there's been a number of cases like that. I mean, specifically within the mapping community, one I can think of was Mapbox's. They have Mapbox gl. Which was a JavaScript client to visualize maps and they moved from, I forget which license they picked, but they moved to a much more restrictive license. I wonder what your thoughts are on something that releases as open source, but then becomes something maybe a little more muddy. [00:18:55] Brandon: Yeah, I think it totally makes sense because if you look at their business and their funding, it seems like for Mapbox, I haven't used it in a while, but my understanding is like a lot of their business now is car companies and doing in dash navigation. And that is probably way better of a business than trying to serve like people making maps of toilets. And I think sort of the beauty of it is that, so Mapbox, the story is they had a JavaScript renderer called Mapbox GL JS. And they changed that to a source available license a couple years ago. And there's a fork of it that I'm sort of involved in called MapLibre GL. But I think the cool part is Mapbox paid employees for years, probably millions of dollars in total to work on this thing and just gave it away for free. Right? So everyone can benefit from that work they did. It's not like that code went away, like once they changed the license. Well, the old version has been forked. It's going its own way now. It's quite different than the new version of Mapbox, but I think it's extremely generous that they're able to pay people for years, you know, like a competitive salary and just give that away. [00:20:10] Jeremy: Yeah, so we should maybe look at it as, it was a gift while it was open source, and they've given it to the community and they're on continuing on their own path, but at least the community running Map Libre, they can run with it, right? It's not like it just disappeared. [00:20:29] Brandon: Yeah, exactly. And that is something that I use for Protomaps quite extensively. Like it's the primary way of showing maps on the web and I've been trying to like work on some enhancements to it to have like better internationalization for if you are in like South Asia like not show languages correctly. So I think it is being taken in a new direction. And I think like sort of the combination of Protomaps and MapLibre, it addresses a lot of use cases, like I mentioned earlier with like these like hobby projects, indie projects that are almost certainly not interesting to someone like Mapbox or Google as a business. But I'm happy to support as a small business myself. Financially supporting open source work (GitHub sponsors, closed source, contracts) [00:21:12] Jeremy: In my previous interview with Tom, one of the main things he mentioned was that creating a mapping business is incredibly difficult, and he said he probably wouldn't do it again. So in your case, you're building Protomaps, which you've admitted is easy to self-host. So there's not a whole lot of incentive for people to pay you. How is that working out for you? How are you supporting yourself? [00:21:40] Brandon: There's a couple of strategies that I've tried and oftentimes failed at. Just to go down the list, so I do have GitHub sponsors so I do have a hosted version of Protomaps you can use if you don't want to bother copying a big file around. But the way I do the billing for that is through GitHub sponsors. If you wanted to use this thing I provide, then just be a sponsor. And that definitely pays for itself, like the cost of running it. And that's great. GitHub sponsors is so easy to set up. It just removes you having to deal with Stripe or something. 'cause a lot of people, their credit card information is already in GitHub. GitHub sponsors I think is awesome if you want to like cover costs for a project. But I think very few people are able to make that work. A thing that's like a salary job level. It's sort of like Twitch streaming, you know, there's a handful of people that are full-time streamers and then you look down the list on Twitch and it's like a lot of people that have like 10 viewers. But some of the other things I've tried, I actually started out, publishing the base map as a closed source thing, where I would sell sort of like a data package instead of being a SaaS, I'd be like, here's a one-time download, of the premium data and you can buy it. And quite a few people bought it I just priced it at like $500 for this thing. And I thought that was an interesting experiment. The main reason it's interesting is because the people that it attracts to you in terms of like, they're curious about your products, are all people willing to pay money. While if you start out everything being open source, then the people that are gonna be try to do it are only the people that want to get something for free. So what I discovered is actually like once you transition that thing from closed source to open source, a lot of the people that used to pay you money will still keep paying you money because like, it wasn't necessarily that that closed source thing was why they wanted to pay. They just valued that thought you've put into it your expertise, for example. So I think that is one thing, that I tried at the beginning was just start out, closed source proprietary, then make it open source. That's interesting to people. Like if you release something as open source, if you go the other way, like people are really mad if you start out with something open source and then later on you're like, oh, it's some other license. Then people are like that's so rotten. But I think doing it the other way, I think is quite valuable in terms of being able to find an audience. [00:24:29] Jeremy: And when you said it was closed source and paid to open source, do you still sell those map exports? [00:24:39] Brandon: I don't right now. It's something that I might do in the future, you know, like have small customizations of the data that are available, uh, for a fee. still like the core OpenStreetMap based map that's like a hundred gigs you can just download. And that'll always just be like a free download just because that's already out there. All the source code to build it is open source. So even if I said, oh, you have to pay for it, then someone else can just do it right? So there's no real reason like to make that like some sort of like paywall thing. But I think like overall if the project is gonna survive in the long term it's important that I'd ideally like to be able to like grow like a team like have a small group of people that can dedicate the time to growing the project in the long term. But I'm still like trying to figure that out right now. [00:25:34] Jeremy: And when you mentioned that when you went from closed to open and people were still paying you, you don't sell a product anymore. What were they paying for? [00:25:45] Brandon: So I have some contracts with companies basically, like if they need a feature or they need a customization in this way then I am very open to those. And I sort of set it up to make it clear from the beginning that this is not just a free thing on GitHub, this is something that you could pay for if you need help with it, if you need support, if you wanted it. I'm also a little cagey about the word support because I think like it sounds a little bit too wishy-washy. Pretty much like if you need access to the developers of an open source project, I think that's something that businesses are willing to pay for. And I think like making that clear to potential users is a challenge. But I think that is one way that you might be able to make like a living out of open source. [00:26:35] Jeremy: And I think you said you'd been working on it for about five years. Has that mostly been full time? [00:26:42] Brandon: It's been on and off. it's sort of my pandemic era project. But I've spent a lot of time, most of my time working on the open source project at this point. So I have done some things that were more just like I'm doing a customization or like a private deployment for some client. But that's been a minority of the time. Yeah. [00:27:03] Jeremy: It's still impressive to have an open source project that is easy to self-host and yet is still able to support you working on it full time. I think a lot of people might make the assumption that there's nothing to sell if something is, is easy to use. But this sort of sounds like a counterpoint to that. [00:27:25] Brandon: I think I'd like it to be. So when you come back to the point of like, it being easy to self-host. Well, so again, like I think about it as like a primitive of the web. Like for example, if you wanted to start a business today as like hosted CSS files, you know, like where you upload your CSS and then you get developers to pay you a monthly subscription for how many times they fetched a CSS file. Well, I think most developers would be like, that's stupid because it's just an open specification, you just upload a static file. And really my goal is to make Protomaps the same way where it's obvious that there's not really some sort of lock-in or some sort of secret sauce in the server that does this thing. How PMTiles works and building a primitive of the web [00:28:16] Brandon: If you look at video for example, like a lot of the tech for how Protomaps and PMTiles works is based on parts of the HTTP spec that were made for video. And 20 years ago, if you wanted to host a video on the web, you had to have like a real player license or flash. So you had to go license some server software from real media or from macromedia so you could stream video to a browser plugin. But now in HTML you can just embed a video file. And no one's like, oh well I need to go pay for my video serving license. I mean, there is such a thing, like YouTube doesn't really use that for DRM reasons, but people just have the assumption that video is like a primitive on the web. So if we're able to make maps sort of that same way like a primitive on the web then there isn't really some obvious business or licensing model behind how that works. Just because it's a thing and it helps a lot of people do their jobs and people are happy using it. So why bother? [00:29:26] Jeremy: You mentioned that it a tech that was used for streaming video. What tech specifically is it? [00:29:34] Brandon: So it is byte range serving. So when you open a video file on the web, So let's say it's like a 100 megabyte video. You don't have to download the entire video before it starts playing. It streams parts out of the file based on like what frames... I mean, it's based on the frames in the video. So it can start streaming immediately because it's organized in a way to where the first few frames are at the beginning. And what PMTiles really is, is it's just like a video but in space instead of time. So it's organized in a way where these zoomed out views are at the beginning and the most zoomed in views are at the end. So when you're like panning or zooming in the map all you're really doing is fetching byte ranges out of that file the same way as a video. But it's organized in, this tiled way on a space filling curve. IIt's a little bit complicated how it works internally and I think it's kind of cool but that's sort of an like an implementation detail. [00:30:35] Jeremy: And to the person deploying it, it just looks like a single file. [00:30:40] Brandon: Exactly in the same way like an mp3 audio file is or like a JSON file is. [00:30:47] Jeremy: So with a video, I can sort of see how as someone seeks through the video, they start at the beginning and then they go to the middle if they wanna see the middle. For a map, as somebody scrolls around the map, are you seeking all over the file or is the way it's structured have a little less chaos? [00:31:09] Brandon: It's structured. And that's kind of the main technical challenge behind building PMTiles is you have to be sort of clever so you're not spraying the reads everywhere. So it uses something called a hilbert curve, which is a mathematical concept of a space filling curve. Where it's one continuous curve that essentially lets you break 2D space into 1D space. So if you've seen some maps of IP space, it uses this crazy looking curve that hits all the points in one continuous line. And that's the same concept behind PMTiles is if you're looking at one part of the world, you're sort of guaranteed that all of those parts you're looking at are quite close to each other and the data you have to transfer is quite minimal, compared to if you just had it at random. [00:32:02] Jeremy: How big do the files get? If I have a PMTiles of the entire world, what kind of size am I looking at? [00:32:10] Brandon: Right now, the default one I distribute is 128 gigabytes, so it's quite sizable, although you can slice parts out of it remotely. So if you just wanted. if you just wanted California or just wanted LA or just wanted only a couple of zoom levels, like from zero to 10 instead of zero to 15, there is a command line tool that's also called PMTiles that lets you do that. Issues with CDNs and range queries [00:32:35] Jeremy: And when you're working with files of this size, I mean, let's say I am working with a CDN in front of my application. I'm not typically accustomed to hosting something that's that large and something that's where you're seeking all over the file. is that, ever an issue or is that something that's just taken care of by the browser and, and taken care of by, by the hosts? [00:32:58] Brandon: That is an issue actually, so a lot of CDNs don't deal with it correctly. And my recommendation is there is a kind of proxy server or like a serverless proxy thing that I wrote. That runs on like cloudflare workers or on Docker that lets you proxy those range requests into a normal URL and then that is like a hundred percent CDN compatible. So I would say like a lot of the big commercial installations of this thing, they use that because it makes more practical sense. It's also faster. But the idea is that this solution sort of scales up and scales down. If you wanted to host just your city in like a 10 megabyte file, well you can just put that into GitHub pages and you don't have to worry about it. If you want to have a global map for your website that serves a ton of traffic then you probably want a little bit more sophisticated of a solution. It still does not require you to run a Linux server, but it might require (you) to use like Lambda or Lambda in conjunction with like a CDN. [00:34:09] Jeremy: Yeah. And that sort of ties into what you were saying at the beginning where if you can host on something like CloudFlare Workers or Lambda, there's less time you have to spend keeping these things running. [00:34:26] Brandon: Yeah, exactly. and I think also the Lambda or CloudFlare workers solution is not perfect. It's not as perfect as S3 or as just static files, but in my experience, it still is better at building something that lasts on the time span of years than being like I have a server that is on this Ubuntu version and in four years there's all these like security patches that are not being applied. So it's still sort of serverless, although not totally vendor neutral like S3. Customizing the map [00:35:03] Jeremy: We've mostly been talking about how you host the map itself, but for someone who's not familiar with these kind of tools, how would they be customizing the map? [00:35:15] Brandon: For customizing the map there is front end style customization and there's also data customization. So for the front end if you wanted to change the water from the shade of blue to another shade of blue there is a TypeScript API where you can customize it almost like a text editor color scheme. So if you're able to name a bunch of colors, well you can customize the map in that way you can change the fonts. And that's all done using MapLibre GL using a TypeScript API on top of that for customizing the data. So all the pipeline to generate this data from OpenStreetMap is open source. There is a Java program using a library called PlanetTiler which is awesome, which is this super fast multi-core way of building map tiles. And right now there isn't really great hooks to customize what data goes into that. But that's something that I do wanna work on. And finally, because the data comes from OpenStreetMap if you notice data that's missing or you wanted to correct data in OSM then you can go into osm.org. You can get involved in contributing the data to OSM and the Protomaps build is daily. So if you make a change, then within 24 hours you should see the new base map. Have that change. And of course for OSM your improvements would go into every OSM based project that is ingesting that data. So it's not a protomap specific thing. It's like this big shared data source, almost like Wikipedia. OpenStreetMap is a dataset and not a map [00:37:01] Jeremy: I think you were involved with OpenStreetMap to some extent. Can you speak a little bit to that for people who aren't familiar, what OpenStreetMap is? [00:37:11] Brandon: Right. So I've been using OSM as sort of like a tools developer for over a decade now. And one of the number one questions I get from developers about what is Protomaps is why wouldn't I just use OpenStreetMap? What's the distinction between Protomaps and OpenStreetMap? And it's sort of like this funny thing because even though OSM has map in the name it's not really a map in that you can't... In that it's mostly a data set and not a map. It does have a map that you can see that you can pan around to when you go to the website but the way that thing they show you on the website is built is not really that easily reproducible. It involves a lot of c++ software you have to run. But OpenStreetMap itself, the heart of it is almost like a big XML file that has all the data in the map and global. And it has tagged features for example. So you can go in and edit that. It has a web front end to change the data. It does not directly translate into making a map actually. Protomaps decides what shows at each zoom level [00:38:24] Brandon: So a lot of the pipeline, that Java program I mentioned for building this basemap for protomaps is doing things like you have to choose what data you show when you zoom out. You can't show all the data. For example when you're zoomed out and you're looking at all of a state like Colorado you don't see all the Chipotle when you're zoomed all the way out. That'd be weird, right? So you have to make some sort of decision in logic that says this data only shows up at this zoom level. And that's really what is the challenge in optimizing the size of that for the Protomaps map project. [00:39:03] Jeremy: Oh, so those decisions of what to show at different Zoom levels those are decisions made by you when you're creating the PMTiles file with Protomaps. [00:39:14] Brandon: Exactly. It's part of the base maps build pipeline. and those are honestly very subjective decisions. Who really decides when you're zoomed out should this hospital show up or should this museum show up nowadays in Google, I think it shows you ads. Like if someone pays for their car repair shop to show up when you're zoomed out like that that gets surfaced. But because there is no advertising auction in Protomaps that doesn't happen obviously. So we have to sort of make some reasonable choice. A lot of that right now in Protomaps actually comes from another open source project called Mapzen. So Mapzen was a company that went outta business a couple years ago. They did a lot of this work in designing which data shows up at which Zoom level and open sourced it. And then when they shut down, they transferred that code into the Linux Foundation. So it's this totally open source project, that like, again, sort of like Mapbox gl has this awesome legacy in that this company funded it for years for smart people to work on it and now it's just like a free thing you can use. So the logic in Protomaps is really based on mapzen. [00:40:33] Jeremy: And so the visualization of all this... I think I understand what you mean when people say oh, why not use OpenStreetMaps because it's not really clear it's hard to tell is this the tool that's visualizing the data? Is it the data itself? So in the case of using Protomaps, it sounds like Protomaps itself has all of the data from OpenStreetMap and then it has made all the decisions for you in terms of what to show at different Zoom levels and what things to have on the map at all. And then finally, you have to have a separate, UI layer and in this case, it sounds like the one that you recommend is the Map Libre library. [00:41:18] Brandon: Yeah, that's exactly right. For Protomaps, it has a portion or a subset of OSM data. It doesn't have all of it just because there's too much, like there's data in there. people have mapped out different bushes and I don't include that in Protomaps if you wanted to go in and edit like the Java code to add that you can. But really what Protomaps is positioned at is sort of a solution for developers that want to use OSM data to make a map on their app or their website. because OpenStreetMap itself is mostly a data set, it does not really go all the way to having an end-to-end solution. Financials and the idea of a project being complete [00:41:59] Jeremy: So I think it's great that somebody who wants to make a map, they have these tools available, whether it's from what was originally built by Mapbox, what's built by Open StreetMap now, the work you're doing with Protomaps. But I wonder one of the things that I talked about with Tom was he was saying he was trying to build this mapping business and based on the financials of what was coming in he was stressed, right? He was struggling a bit. And I wonder for you, you've been working on this open source project for five years. Do you have similar stressors or do you feel like I could keep going how things are now and I feel comfortable? [00:42:46] Brandon: So I wouldn't say I'm a hundred percent in one bucket or the other. I'm still seeing it play out. One thing, that I really respect in a lot of open source projects, which I'm not saying I'm gonna do for Protomaps is the idea that a project is like finished. I think that is amazing. If a software project can just be done it's sort of like a painting or a novel once you write, finish the last page, have it seen by the editor. I send it off to the press is you're done with a book. And I think one of the pains of software is so few of us can actually do that. And I don't know obviously people will say oh the map is never finished. That's more true of OSM, but I think like for Protomaps. One thing I'm thinking about is how to limit the scope to something that's quite narrow to where we could be feature complete on the core things in the near term timeframe. That means that it does not address a lot of things that people want. Like search, like if you go to Google Maps and you search for a restaurant, you will get some hits. that's like a geocoding issue. And I've already decided that's totally outta scope for Protomaps. So, in terms of trying to think about the future of this, I'm mostly looking for ways to cut scope if possible. There are some things like better tooling around being able to work with PMTiles that are on the roadmap. but for me, I am still enjoying working on the project. It's definitely growing. So I can see on NPM downloads I can see the growth curve of people using it and that's really cool. So I like hearing about when people are using it for cool projects. So it seems to still be going okay for now. [00:44:44] Jeremy: Yeah, that's an interesting perspective about how you were talking about projects being done. Because I think when people look at GitHub projects and they go like, oh, the last commit was X months ago. They go oh well this is dead right? But maybe that's the wrong framing. Maybe you can get a project to a point where it's like, oh, it's because it doesn't need to be updated. [00:45:07] Brandon: Exactly, yeah. Like I used to do a lot of c++ programming and the best part is when you see some LAPACK matrix math library from like 1995 that still works perfectly in c++ and you're like, this is awesome. This is the one I have to use. But if you're like trying to use some like React component library and it hasn't been updated in like a year, you're like, oh, that's a problem. So again, I think there's some middle ground between those that I'm trying to find. I do like for Protomaps, it's quite dependency light in terms of the number of hard dependencies I have in software. but I do still feel like there is a lot of work to be done in terms of project scope that needs to have stuff added. You mostly only hear about problems instead of people's wins [00:45:54] Jeremy: Having run it for this long. Do you have any thoughts on running an open source project in general? On dealing with issues or managing what to work on things like that? [00:46:07] Brandon: Yeah. So I have a lot. I think one thing people point out a lot is that especially because I don't have a direct relationship with a lot of the people using it a lot of times I don't even know that they're using it. Someone sent me a message saying hey, have you seen flickr.com, like the photo site? And I'm like, no. And I went to flickr.com/map and it has Protomaps for it. And I'm like, I had no idea. But that's cool, if they're able to use Protomaps for this giant photo sharing site that's awesome. But that also means I don't really hear about when people use it successfully because you just don't know, I guess they, NPM installed it and it works perfectly and you never hear about it. You only hear about people's negative experiences. You only hear about people that come and open GitHub issues saying this is totally broken, and why doesn't this thing exist? And I'm like, well, it's because there's an infinite amount of things that I want to do, but I have a finite amount of time and I just haven't gone into that yet. And that's honestly a lot of the things and people are like when is this thing gonna be done? So that's, that's honestly part of why I don't have a public roadmap because I want to avoid that sort of bickering about it. I would say that's one of my biggest frustrations with running an open source project is how it's self-selected to only hear the negative experiences with it. Be careful what PRs you accept [00:47:32] Brandon: 'cause you don't hear about those times where it works. I'd say another thing is it's changed my perspective on contributing to open source because I think when I was younger or before I had become a maintainer I would open a pull request on a project unprompted that has a hundred lines and I'd be like, Hey, just merge this thing. But I didn't realize when I was younger well if I just merge it and I disappear, then the maintainer is stuck with what I did forever. You know if I add some feature then that person that maintains the project has to do that indefinitely. And I think that's very asymmetrical and it's changed my perspective a lot on accepting open source contributions. I wanna have it be open to anyone to contribute. But there is some amount of back and forth where it's almost like the default answer for should I accept a PR is no by default because you're the one maintaining it. And do you understand the shape of that solution completely to where you're going to support it for years because the person that's contributing it is not bound to those same obligations that you are. And I think that's also one of the things where I have a lot of trepidation around open source is I used to think of it as a lot more bazaar-like in terms of anyone can just throw their thing in. But then that creates a lot of problems for the people who are expected out of social obligation to continue this thing indefinitely. [00:49:23] Jeremy: Yeah, I can totally see why that causes burnout with a lot of open source maintainers, because you probably to some extent maybe even feel some guilt right? You're like, well, somebody took the time to make this. But then like you said you have to spend a lot of time trying to figure out is this something I wanna maintain long term? And one wrong move and it's like, well, it's in here now. [00:49:53] Brandon: Exactly. To me, I think that is a very common failure mode for open source projects is they're too liberal in the things they accept. And that's a lot of why I was talking about how that choice of what features show up on the map was inherited from the MapZen projects. If I didn't have that then somebody could come in and say hey, you know, I want to show power lines on the map. And they open a PR for power lines and now everybody who's using Protomaps when they're like zoomed out they see power lines are like I didn't want that. So I think that's part of why a lot of open source projects eventually evolve into a plugin system is because there is this demand as the project grows for more and more features. But there is a limit in the maintainers. It's like the demand for features is exponential while the maintainer amount of time and effort is linear. Plugin systems might reduce need for PRs [00:50:56] Brandon: So maybe the solution to smash that exponential down to quadratic maybe is to add a plugin system. But I think that is one of the biggest tensions that only became obvious to me after working on this for a couple of years. [00:51:14] Jeremy: Is that something you're considering doing now? [00:51:18] Brandon: Is the plugin system? Yeah. I think for the data customization, I eventually wanted to have some sort of programmatic API to where you could declare a config file that says I want ski routes. It totally makes sense. The power lines example is maybe a little bit obscure but for example like a skiing app and you want to be able to show ski slopes when you're zoomed out well you're not gonna be able to get that from Mapbox or from Google because they have a one size fits all map that's not specialized to skiing or to golfing or to outdoors. But if you like, in theory, you could do this with Protomaps if you changed the Java code to show data at different zoom levels. And that is to me what makes the most sense for a plugin system and also makes the most product sense because it enables a lot of things you cannot do with the one size fits all map. [00:52:20] Jeremy: It might also increase the complexity of the implementation though, right? [00:52:25] Brandon: Yeah, exactly. So that's like. That's really where a lot of the terrifying thoughts come in, which is like once you create this like config file surface area, well what does that look like? Is that JSON? Is that TOML, is that some weird like everything eventually evolves into some scripting language right? Where you have logic inside of your templates and I honestly do not really know what that looks like right now. That feels like something in the medium term roadmap. [00:52:58] Jeremy: Yeah and then in terms of bug reports or issues, now it's not just your code it's this exponential combination of whatever people put into these config files. [00:53:09] Brandon: Exactly. Yeah. so again, like I really respect the projects that have done this well or that have done plugins well. I'm trying to think of some, I think obsidian has plugins, for example. And that seems to be one of the few solutions to try and satisfy the infinite desire for features with the limited amount of maintainer time. Time split between code vs triage vs talking to users [00:53:36] Jeremy: How would you say your time is split between working on the code versus issue and PR triage? [00:53:43] Brandon: Oh, it varies really. I think working on the code is like a minority of it. I think something that I actually enjoy is talking to people, talking to users, getting feedback on it. I go to quite a few conferences to talk to developers or people that are interested and figure out how to refine the message, how to make it clearer to people, like what this is for. And I would say maybe a plurality of my time is spent dealing with non-technical things that are neither code or GitHub issues. One thing I've been trying to do recently is talk to people that are not really in the mapping space. For example, people that work for newspapers like a lot of them are front end developers and if you ask them to run a Linux server they're like I have no idea. But that really is like one of the best target audiences for Protomaps. So I'd say a lot of the reality of running an open source project is a lot like a business is it has all the same challenges as a business in terms of you have to figure out what is the thing you're offering. You have to deal with people using it. You have to deal with feedback, you have to deal with managing emails and stuff. I don't think the payoff is anywhere near running a business or a startup that's backed by VC money is but it's definitely not the case that if you just want to code, you should start an open source project because I think a lot of the work for an opensource project has nothing to do with just writing the code. It is in my opinion as someone having done a VC backed business before, it is a lot more similar to running, a tech company than just putting some code on GitHub. Running a startup vs open source project [00:55:43] Jeremy: Well, since you've done both at a high level what did you like about running the company versus maintaining the open source project? [00:55:52] Brandon: So I have done some venture capital accelerator programs before and I think there is an element of hype and energy that you get from that that is self perpetuating. Your co-founder is gungho on like, yeah, we're gonna do this thing. And your investors are like, you guys are geniuses. You guys are gonna make a killing doing this thing. And the way it's framed is sort of obvious to everyone that it's like there's a much more traditional set of motivations behind that, that people understand while it's definitely not the case for running an open source project. Sometimes you just wake up and you're like what the hell is this thing for, it is this thing you spend a lot of time on. You don't even know who's using it. The people that use it and make a bunch of money off of it they know nothing about it. And you know, it's just like cool. And then you only hear from people that are complaining about it. And I think like that's honestly discouraging compared to the more clear energy and clearer motivation and vision behind how most people think about a company. But what I like about the open source project is just the lack of those constraints you know? Where you have a mandate that you need to have this many customers that are paying by this amount of time. There's that sort of pressure on delivering a business result instead of just making something that you're proud of that's simple to use and has like an elegant design. I think that's really a difference in motivation as well. Having control [00:57:50] Jeremy: Do you feel like you have more control? Like you mentioned how you've decided I'm not gonna make a public roadmap. I'm the sole developer. I get to decide what goes in. What doesn't. Do you feel like you have more control in your current position than you did running the startup? [00:58:10] Brandon: Definitely for sure. Like that agency is what I value the most. It is possible to go too far. Like, so I'm very wary of the BDFL title, which I think is how a lot of open source projects succeed. But I think there is some element of for a project to succeed there has to be somebody that makes those decisions. Sometimes those decisions will be wrong and then hopefully they can be rectified. But I think going back to what I was talking about with scope, I think the overall vision and the scope of the project is something that I am very opinionated about in that it should do these things. It shouldn't do these things. It should be easy to use for this audience. Is it gonna be appealing to this other audience? I don't know. And I think that is really one of the most important parts of that leadership role, is having the power to decide we're doing this, we're not doing this. I would hope other developers would be able to get on board if they're able to make good use of the project, if they use it for their company, if they use it for their business, if they just think the project is cool. So there are other contributors at this point and I want to get more involved. But I think being able to make those decisions to what I believe is going to be the best project is something that is very special about open source, that isn't necessarily true about running like a SaaS business. [00:59:50] Jeremy: I think that's a good spot to end it on, so if people want to learn more about Protomaps or they wanna see what you're up to, where should they head? [01:00:00] Brandon: So you can go to Protomaps.com, GitHub, or you can find me or Protomaps on bluesky or Mastodon. [01:00:09] Jeremy: All right, Brandon, thank you so much for chatting today. [01:00:12] Brandon: Great. Thank you very much.
On this episode, Coach Moriarty returns to the show! Coach Moriarty is the Tight Ends/H-Backs Coach at East Texas A&M Twitter: CoachMort57 Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
The above title does not do Dan Swift justice. Dan also has his own podcast, successful Youtube channel and he has released seven music albums. Talk about being unstoppable! I met Dan when I appeared as a guest on his podcast, Time We Discuss and I knew he would contribute to a fascinating story here. Dan grew up with an interest in music. For a time he thought he wanted to write music for video games. Along the way he left that idea behind and after graduating from college he began working at designing websites. He has made that into his fulltime career. As he grew as a website designer and later as a supervisor for a school system coordinating and creating the school sites Dan took an interest in accessibility of the web. We talk quite a bit about that during our time together. His observations are fascinating and right on where web access for persons with disabilities is concerned. We also talk about Dan's podcast including some stories of guests and what inspires Dan from his interviews. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I. About the Guest: Originally wanting to write music for video games or become an audio engineer, Dan Swift graduated from a small Liberal Arts college with a degree in Music Composition (Bachelor of Arts) and Music Recording Technology (Bachelor of Music). Dan went on to release seven EP albums between 2003 and 2024. Most recently, "Parallels" dropped on Leap Day, 2024. Dan has always had a passion for shaking up genres between Eps writing classical, electronic, and modern rock music. While creating music has always been a passion, Dan took a more traditional professional path as a web developer. While on this path, Dan had a lot of experience with accessibility standards as it relates to the web and he values accessibility and equity for everyone both inside and outside the digital workspace. Having received his MBA during COVID, Dan went on to a leadership position where he continues to make a difference leading a team of tech-savvy web professionals. In early 2024, I created a podcast and YouTube channel called "Time We Discuss" which focuses on career exploration and discovery. The channel and podcast are meant for anyone that is feeling lost professionally and unsure of what is out there for them. Dan feels that it is important for people to discover their professional passion, whatever it is that lights them up on the inside, and chase it. So many people are unfulfilled in their careers, yet it doesn't have to be this way. When not working, Dan enjoys spending time with his wife and three kids. They are a very active family often going to various extracurricular events over the years including flag football, soccer, gymnastics, and school concerts. Dan's wife is very active with several nonprofit organizations including those for the betterment of children and homelessness. Dan enjoys playing the piano, listening to podcasts, and listening to music. Dan is very naturally curious and is a slave to a train of never-ending thoughts. Ways to connect with Dan: Time We Discuss on YouTube Time We Discuss on Spotify Time We Discuss on Twitter/X Time We Discuss on Instagram Time We Discuss on BlueSky Time We Discuss Website Dan Swift Music Website About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi everybody. Welcome once again. Wherever you may be, to unstoppable mindset, I am your host, Mike hingson, sometimes I say Michael hingson, and people have said, Well, is it Mike or Michael? And the answer is, it doesn't really matter. It took a master's degree in physics and 10 years in sales for me to realize that if I said Mike Hingson on the phone, people kept calling me Mr. Kingston, and I couldn't figure out why, so I started saying Michael Hingson, and they got the hinckson part right, but it doesn't matter to me. So anyway, Mike hingson, or Michael hingson, glad you're with us, wherever you are, and our guest today is Dan Swift, who has his own pine podcast, and it was actually through that podcast that we met, and I told him, but I wouldn't do it with him and be on his podcast unless he would be on unstoppable mindset. And here he is. Dan is a person who writes music, he's an engineer. He does a lot of work with web design and so on, and we're going to get into all that. So Dan, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Dan Swift ** 02:25 Michael, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me. I am. I'm super excited. Michael Hingson ** 02:30 Well, looking forward to getting to spend more time with you. We did yours time to discuss, and now we get this one. So it's always kind of fun. So, and Dan is in Pennsylvania, so we're talking across the continent, which is fine. It's amazing what we can do with electronics these days, telling us not like the good old days of the covered wagon. What can I say? So, So Dan, why don't you tell us a little bit about kind of the early Dan, growing up and all that. Dan Swift ** 02:57 Oh, geez. How far Michael Hingson ** 02:58 back to go? Oh, as far as you want to go, Dan Swift ** 03:02 Well, okay, so I am, I am the youngest of five. Grew up just outside of Philadelphia as being the youngest. You know, there are certain perks that go along with that. I get to experience things that my parents would have previous said no to the older siblings. And you know how it is with with, you know, if you have more than one kid, technically, you get a little more relaxed as you have more but then I also had the other benefit of, you know, hearing the expression, there are young ears in the room, I will tell you later. So I kind of got some of that too. But I grew up outside of Philadelphia, had a passion for music. Pretty early on. I was never good at any sports. Tried a number of things. And when I landed on music, I thought, you know, this is this is something that I can do. I seem to have a natural talent for it. And I started, I tried playing the piano when I was maybe eight or nine years old. That didn't pan out. Moved on to the trumpet when I was nine or 10. Eventually ended up picking up guitar, bass, guitar, double bass revisited piano later in life, but that's the musical side of things. Also, when I was young, you know, I had a passion for role playing games, Dungeons and Dragons, was really big when I was a teenager, so I was super excited for that. Yeah, that's, that's kind of those, those memories kind of forced me, or kind of shaped me into the person that I am today. I'm very light hearted, very easy going, and I just try to enjoy life. Michael Hingson ** 04:30 I played some computer games when computers came along and I started fiddling with them, the games I usually played were text based games. I've never really played Dungeons and Dragons and some of those. And I I'm sure that there are accessible versions of of some of that, but I remember playing games like adventure. You remember? Have you heard of adventure? I have, yeah. So that was, that was fun. Info con made. Well, they had Zork, which was really the same as adventure, but they. At a whole bunch of games. And those are, those are fun. And I think all of those games, I know a lot of adults would probably say kids spend too much time on some of them, but some of these games, like the the text based games, I thought really were very good at expanding one's mind, and they made you think, which is really what was important to me? Yeah, I Dan Swift ** 05:21 completely agree with that too. Because you'd be put in these situations where, you know true, you're trying to solve some kind of puzzle, and you're trying to think, Okay, well, that didn't work, or that didn't work, and you try all these different things, then you decide to leave and come back to and you realize later, like you didn't have something that you needed to progress forward, or something like that. But, but it really gets the brain going, trying to create with these, uh, come up with these creative solutions to progress the game forward. Yeah, which Michael Hingson ** 05:43 and the creative people who made them in the first place? What did they? Yeah, they, I don't know where they, where they spent their whole time that they had nothing to do but to create these games. But hey, it worked. It sure. Did you know you do it well. So you went off to college. Where'd you go? Sure, Dan Swift ** 06:02 I went to a small liberal arts college, Lebanon Valley College in Pennsylvania. It's near, it's near Hershey. It was, it was weird in that my the entire school was about half the size of my entire high school. So that was very, very weird. And then you talk to these other people. And it's like, my high school was, you know, very large by comparison. But for me, it was like, well, high school, that's what I knew. But yeah, it was I went to, I went to 11 Valley College near Hershey. I studied, I was a double major. I studied music composition and music recording, Michael Hingson ** 06:35 okay, and, oh, I've got to go back and ask before we continue that. So what were some of the real perks you got as a kid that your your older siblings didn't get? Dan Swift ** 06:45 Oh, geez, okay. I mean, Michael Hingson ** 06:49 couldn't resist, yeah, probably, probably Dan Swift ** 06:51 some of the more cliche things. I probably got to spend the night at a friend's house earlier than my oldest brother. For instance, I know my parents were a little more concerned about finances. So I know my oldest brother didn't get a chance to go away to college. He did community college instead. And then, kind of, my sister was a very similar thing. And then once we got, like, about halfway down, you know, me and my two other brothers, we all had the opportunity to go away to college. So I think that was, that was definitely one of the perks. If I was the oldest, I was the oldest, I probably wouldn't have had that opportunity with my family. Got Michael Hingson ** 07:24 it well, so you went off and you got a matt a bachelor's in music, composition and music recording. So that brought you to what you were interested in, part, which was the engineering aspect of it. But that certainly gave you a pretty well rounded education. Why those two why composition and recording? Sure. Dan Swift ** 07:43 So if we talk about the music first at that time, so this is like the the late 90s, early 2000s any kind of digital music that was out there really was, was MIDI based, and anyone that was around that time and paying attention, it was like these very like, like that music kind of sound to it. So there wasn't a whole lot going on with MIDI. I'm sorry, with music as far as how great it sounded, or I shouldn't say, how great it sounded, the the instruments that are triggered by MIDI, they didn't sound all that great. But around that time, there was this game that came out, Final Fantasy seven, and I remember hearing the music for that, and it was all, it was all electronic, and it was just blown away by how fantastic it sounded. And And around that time, I thought, you know, it'd be really cool to get into writing music for video games. And that was something I really kind of toyed with. So that was kind of in the back of my head. But also, at the time, I was in a band, like a rock band, and I thought, you know, I'm going to school. They have this opportunity to work as a music engineer, which is something I really wanted to do at the time. And I thought, free studio time. My band will be here. This will be awesome. And it wasn't until I got there that I discovered that they also had the music composition program. It was a I was only there maybe a week or two, and once I discovered that, I was like, Well, this is gonna be great, you know, I'll learn to write. Know, I'll learn to write music. I can write for video games. I'll get engineering to go with it. This is gonna be fantastic. Speaking Michael Hingson ** 09:07 of electronic music, did you ever see a science fiction movie called The Forbidden Planet? I did not. Oh, it's music. It's, it's not really music in the sense of what what we call, but it's all electronic. You gotta, you gotta find it. I'm sure you can find it somewhere. It's called the Forbidden Planet. Walter pigeon is in it. But the music and the sounds fit the movie, although it's all electronic, and electronic sounding pretty interesting. Dan Swift ** 09:37 Now, is that from, I know, like in the 50s, 60s, there was a lot of experiments. Okay, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 09:45 yeah, and, but again, it fit the movie, which was the important part. So it certainly wasn't music like John Williams today and and in the 80s and all that. But again, for the movie, it fit. Very well, which is kind of cool. Yeah, Dan Swift ** 10:02 I'll definitely have to check that out. I remember when I was in school, we talked about like that, that avant garde kind of style of the the 50s, 60s. And there was a lot of weird stuff going on with electronics, electronic music. Um, so I'm very curious to see, uh, to check this out, yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson ** 10:14 You have to let me know what, what you find, what you think about it, when you get to chance to watch it, absolutely or actually, I I may have a copy. If I do, I'll put it in a dropbox folder and send you a link. Fantastic. So you graduated. Now, when did you graduate? Dan Swift ** 10:32 Sure, so I graduated in 2003 okay, Michael Hingson ** 10:35 so you graduated, and then what did you do? So, Dan Swift ** 10:41 backing up about maybe 612, months prior to that, I decided I did not want to be a I didn't want to write music for video games. I also did not want to work in a recording studio. And the reason for this was for music. It was, I didn't it was, it was something I really, really enjoyed, and I didn't want to be put in a position where I had to produce music on demand. I didn't want to I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to lose my hobby, lose my passion in that way. So I decided that was out. And then also, when it came to working in a studio, if I wanted to be the engineer that I really wanted to be, I would have to be in a place where the music scene was really happening. So I'd have to be in like Philadelphia or Los Angeles or Nashville or deep in Philly or something like that. And I do not like the cities. I don't feel comfortable in the city. So I was like, that's not really for me either. I could work in like a suburb studio. But I was like, not, not for me. I don't, not for me. So when I graduated college, I ended up doing freelance web work. I had met through, through a mutual friend I was I was introduced to by a mutual friend, to a person that was looking for a new web designer, developer. They lost their person, and they were looking for someone to take over with that. And at the time, I did a little bit of experience doing that, from when I was in high school, kind of picked it up on the side, just kind of like as a hobby. But I was like, Ah, I'll give this a shot. So I started actually doing that freelance for a number of years after graduation. I also worked other jobs that was, like, kind of like nowhere, like dead end kind of jobs. I did customer service work for a little bit. I was a teacher with the American Cross for a little bit, a little bit of this and that, just trying to find my way. But at the same time, I was doing freelance stuff, and nothing related to music and nothing related to technology, Michael Hingson ** 12:29 well, so you learned HTML coding and all that other stuff that goes along with all that. I gather, I Dan Swift ** 12:35 sure did, I sure didn't. At the time, CSS was just kind of popular, yeah, so that. And then I learned, I learned JavaScript a little bit. And, you know, I had a very healthy attitude when it when it came to accepting new clients and projects, I always tried to learn something new. Anytime someone gave me a new a new request came in, it was like, Okay, well, I already know how to do this by doing it this way. But how can I make this better? And that was really the way that I really propelled myself forward in the in the digital, I should say, when it comes to development or design. Michael Hingson ** 13:05 Okay, so you ended up really seriously going into website development and so on. Dan Swift ** 13:15 I did. So I continued doing freelance. And then about five years after I graduated, I started working as an audio visual technician, and also was doing computer tech stuff as part of the role as well. And while I was there, I ended up developing some web applications for myself to use that I could use to interact with our like projectors and stuff like that. Because they were on, they were all in the network, so I could interact with them using my wait for it, iPod Touch, there you go. So that was, you know, I kind of like started to blend those two together. I was really interested in the web at the time, you know, because I was still doing the freelance, I really wanted to move forward and kind of find a full time position doing that. So I ended up pursuing that more and just trying to refine those skills. And it wasn't until about about five years later, I ended up working as a full time web developer, and then kind of moved forward from Michael Hingson ** 14:09 there, iPod Touch, what memories? And there are probably bunches of people who don't even know what that is today. That Dan Swift ** 14:16 is so true, and at the time that was cutting edge technology, Michael Hingson ** 14:21 yeah, it was not accessible. So I didn't get to own one, because was later than that that Steve Jobs was finally kind of pushed with the threat of a lawsuit into making things accessible. And then they did make the iPhone, the iPod, the Mac and so on, and iTunes U and other things like that, accessible. And of course, what Steve Jobs did, what Apple did, which is what Microsoft eventually sort of has done as well, but he built accessibility into the operating system. So anybody who has an Apple device today. Troy actually has a device that can be made accessible by simply turning on the accessibility mode. Of course, if you're going to turn it on, you better learn how to use it, because the gestures are different. But it took a while, but, but that did happen. But by that time, I, you know, I had other things going on, and so I never did get an iPod and and wasn't able to make it work, but that's okay. But it's like the CD has gone away and the iPod has gone away, and so many things and DVDs have gone away. Dan Swift ** 15:31 Yes, so true. So true. You know, just as soon as we start to get used to them Michael Hingson ** 15:35 gone. I think there is, well, maybe it's close. There was a blockbuster open up in Oregon. But again, Blockbuster Video, another one, and I think somebody's trying to bring them back, but I do see that vinyl records are still being sold in various places by various people. Michael Buble just put out a new album, The Best of Buble, and it's available, among other things, in vinyl. So the old turntables, the old record players, and you can actually buy his album as a record and play it, which is kind of cool. Yeah, they've been Dan Swift ** 16:07 very big with marketing, too. It's been kind of a marketing, I don't want to say gimmick, but in that realm, you kind of like, hey, you know, this is also available in vinyl, and you try to get the people that are like the audio files to really check it out. I never really took the vinyl personally, but I know plenty of people that have sworn by it. Well, Michael Hingson ** 16:25 I've heard a number of people say that the audio actually is better on vinyl than typical MP three or other similar file formats. Yep, Dan Swift ** 16:35 yep. I had a friend growing up, and actually, I shouldn't say growing up, so I was already, like, in college or post college, but a buddy of mine, Craig, he was all about vinyl, and he had, he had the nice, the amplifier, and the nice, I think even, like, a certain kind of needle that you would get for the record player. And you know, you'd have to sit in the sweet spot to really enjoy it, and and I respect that, but um, for me, it was like, I didn't, I didn't hear that much of a difference between a CD and vinyl. Um, not very. Didn't have the opportunity to AB test them. But now I will say comparing a CD to like an mp three file, for instance, even a high quality mp three file, I can tell the difference on that Sure. I would never, you know, I'd use the MP threes for convenience. But if I were to have it my way, man, I'd have the uncompressed audio, no doubt about it, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 17:27 wave forms, yep, yep, yeah. Obviously that's that's going to give you the real quality. Of course, it takes a lot more memory, but nevertheless, if you've got the space it, it really makes a lot of sense to do because mp three isn't going to be nearly as high a level quality. Dan Swift ** 17:43 Absolutely, absolutely true. And that the way I rationalize it to myself. It's like, well, if I'm going to be though in the car or probably walking around and listening to music, I'm going to be getting all kinds of sounds from outside. Anyway, it kind of offsets the poor quality of the MP justify it. Michael Hingson ** 17:56 That's true. Well, you know when and mp three is convenient if you want to put a bunch of stuff in a well on a memory card and be able to play it all, because if you have uncompressed audio, it does take a lot more space, and you can't put as much on a card, or you got to get a much bigger card. And now we're getting pretty good sized memory cards. But still, the reality is that that for most purposes, not all mp three will suffice. Dan Swift ** 18:26 That is true. That is true. And I think too, you have a that the next battle is going to be mp three or a streaming, Michael Hingson ** 18:33 yeah, yeah, that's going to be fun, isn't it? Yeah? Boy. What a world well. So one of the things I noticed in reading your bio and so on is that you got involved to a great degree in dealing with accessibility on the web. Tell me about that. Dan Swift ** 18:55 Absolutely. Michael, so I've very strong opinions of accessibility. And this really comes back to, you know, I was, I was at my job, and I was only there as a full time developer. I wasn't there all that long, maybe a year, maybe two, and my supervisor came over to me and she said, you know, we want to start to make things more accessible. And this is like, this is like, 1012, years ago at this point, and I was like, okay, you know, and I did my little bit of research, and there wasn't a whole lot going on at the time. I don't think WCAG was a thing back then. It may have been. I can't remember if 508 was a thing at the in the Bible. It was okay, yeah. So I was doing my research, and, you know, you learn about the alt tags, and it's like, okay, well, we're doing that, okay. Then you learn about forms, and it's like, okay, well, they need to have labels, okay, but, but the turning point was this, Michael, we had a person on staff that was blind, and I was put in touch with this person, and I asked them to review like, different, different web applications. Applications we made, or forms or web pages. And the one day, I can't remember if he volunteered or if I asked, but essentially the request was, can this person come into our physical space and review stuff for us in person? And that experience was life changing for me, just watching him navigate our different web pages or web applications or forms, and seeing how he could go through it, see what was a problem, what was not a problem, was just an incredible experience. And I said this before, when given the opportunity to talk about this, I say to other developers and designers, if you ever have even the slightest opportunity to interact with someone, if they if, if you meet someone and they are using, let me, let me rephrase that, if you have the opportunity to watch someone that is blind using a navigate through the web, take, take that opportunity. Is just an amazing, amazing experience, and you draw so much from it. As a developer or designer, so very strong opinions about it, I'm all about inclusivity and making things equal for everyone on the web, and that was just my introductory experience about a dozen years ago. Michael Hingson ** 21:07 And so what have you done with it all since? Sure, so Dan Swift ** 21:11 with our website, we went from having about a million success criterion failures, and we've gotten it all the way down to, I think my last check, I think was maybe about 10,000 so it was huge, huge change. It's hard to get everything as because as content changes and newspaper, as new pages come online, it's hard to keep everything 100% accessible, but we know what to look for. You know, we're looking for the right contrast. We're looking for, you know, the all tags. We're looking for hierarchy with the headers. We're making sure our forms are accessible. We're making sure there aren't any keyboard traps, you know, things that most people, most web visitors, don't even think about, you know, or developers even thinking about, until you know, you need to think about them Michael Hingson ** 22:00 well and other things as well, such as with other kinds of disabilities. If you're a person with epilepsy, for example, you don't want to go to a website and find blinking elements, or at least, you need to have a way to turn them off, yeah. Dan Swift ** 22:13 Or or audio that starts automatically, or videos that start automatically, yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson ** 22:19 So many different things, or video that starts automatically, and there's music, but there's no audio, so you so a blind person doesn't even know what the video is, yes, which, which happens all too often. But the the reality is that with the Americans with Disabilities Act, it's it's been interesting, because some lawyers have tried to fight the courts and say, well, but the ADA came out long before the internet, so we didn't know anything about the internet, so it doesn't apply. And finally, the Department of Justice is taking some stands to say, yes, it does, because the internet is a place of business, but it's going to have to be codified, I think, to really bring it home. But some courts have sided with that argument and said, Well, yeah, the ADA is too old, so it doesn't, doesn't matter. And so we still see so many challenges with the whole idea of access. And people listening to this podcast know that, among other things I work with a company called accessibe. Are you familiar with them? I am, Yep, yeah, and, and so that's been an interesting challenge. But what makes access to be interesting is that, because it has an artificial intelligent widget that can monitor a website, and at the at the low end of of costs. It's like $490 a year. And it may not pick up everything that a body needs, but it will, will do a lot. And going back to what you said earlier, as websites change, as they evolve, because people are doing things on their website, which they should be doing, if you've got a static website, you never do anything with it. That's not going to do you very much good. But if it's changing constantly, the widget, at least, can look at it and make a lot of the changes to keep the website accessible. The other part of it is that it can tell you what it can't do, which is cool, Dan Swift ** 24:16 yeah, that's a really good point. You know, there's a lot of tools that are out there. They do monitor the stuff for you, you know, like we on our on our site, we have something that runs every night and it gives us a report every day. But then there are things that it doesn't always check, or it might, it might get a false positive, because it sees that like, you know, this element has a particular color background and the text is a particular color as well. But there's, you know, maybe a gradient image that lies between them, or an image that lies between them. So it's actually okay, even though the tool says it's not, or something like that. So, yeah, those automated tools, but you gotta also look at it. You know, a human has to look at those as well. Michael Hingson ** 24:52 Yeah, it's a challenge. But the thing that I think is important with, well, say, use accessibe. An example is that I think every web developer should use accessibe. And the reason I think that is not that accessibe will necessarily do a perfect job with with the access widget, but what it will do is give you something that is constantly monitored, and even if it only makes about 50% of the website more usable because there are complex graphics and other things that it can't do, the reality is, why work harder than you have to, and if accessibility can do a lot of the work for you without you having to do it, it doesn't mean that you need to charge less or you need to do things any different, other than the fact that you save a lot of time on doing part of it because the widget does it for you. Absolutely, absolutely. Dan Swift ** 25:47 That's that's a really, really good point too, having that tool, that tool in your tool belt, you know, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 25:55 yeah. And it makes a lot of sense to do. And there are, there are people who complain about products like accessibe, saying artificial intelligence can't do it. It's too new. You gotta start somewhere. And the reality is that accessibe, in of itself, does a lot, and it really makes websites a lot better than they otherwise were. And some people say, Well, we've gone to websites and accessibe doesn't really seem to make a difference on the site. Maybe not. But even if your website is pretty good up front and you use accessibe, it's that time that you change something that you don't notice and suddenly accessibe fixes it. That makes it better. It's an interesting discussion all the way around, but to to deny the reality of what an AI oriented system can do is, is really just putting your head in the sand and not really being realistic about life as we go forward. I think that is Dan Swift ** 26:52 so true. That is so true, and there's so many implications with AI and where it's going to go and what it will be able to do. You know, it's just in its infancy, and the amount of things that that the possibilities of what the future is going to be like, but they're just going to be very, very interesting. Michael Hingson ** 27:05 I interviewed someone, well, I can't say interview, because it's conversation. Well, I had a conversation with someone earlier on, unstoppable mindset, and he said something very interesting. He's a coach, and specifically, he does a lot of work with AI, and he had one customer that he really encouraged to start using chat GPT. And what this customer did, he called his senior staff into a meeting one day, and he said, Okay, I want you to take the rest of the day and just work with chat, G, P, T, and create ideas that will enhance our business, and then let's get together tomorrow to discuss them. And he did that because he wanted people to realize the value already that exists using some of this technology. Well, these people came back with incredible ideas because they took the time to focus on them, and again, they interacted with chat, GPT. So it was a symbiotic, is probably the wrong word, but synergistic, kind of relationship, where they and the AI system worked together and created, apparently, what became really clever ideas that enhanced this customer's business. And the guy, when he first started working with this coach, was totally down on AI, but after that day of interaction with his staff, he recognized the value of it. And I think the really important key of AI is AI will not replace anyone. And that's what this gentleman said to me. He said, AI won't do it. People may replace other people, which really means they're not using AI properly, because if they were, when they find that they can use artificial intelligence to do the job that someone else is doing, you don't get rid of that person. You find something else for them to do. And the conversation that we had was about truck drivers who are involved in transporting freight from one place to another. If you get to the point where you have an autonomous vehicle, who can really do that, you still keep a driver behind the wheel, but that driver is now doing other things for the company, while the AI system does the driving, once it gets dependable enough to do that. So he said, there's no reason for AI to eliminate, and it won't. It's people that do it eliminate any job at all, which I think is a very clever and appropriate response. And I completely agree Dan Swift ** 29:29 with that, you know, you think of other other technologies that are out there and how it disrupted, disrupted different industries. And the one example I like to use is the traffic light, you know. And I wonder, and I have no way of knowing this. I haven't researched this at all, but I wonder if there was any kind of pushback when they started putting in traffic lights. Because at that point in time, maybe you didn't have people directing traffic or something like that. Or maybe that was the event of the stop sign, it took it took away the jobs of people that were directing traffic or something like that. Maybe there was some kind of uproar over that. Maybe not, I don't know, but I like to think that things like that, you know. It disrupts the industry. But then people move on, and there are other other opportunities for them, and it progresses. It makes society progress forward. Michael Hingson ** 30:06 And one would note that we still do use school crossing guards at a lot of schools. Dan Swift ** 30:11 That is so true, that is true. Yeah, yeah. And especially, too, like talking about idea generation. I was talking to ginger. I forgot her last name, but she's the the president of pinstripe marketing, and she was saying that her team sometimes does the same thing that they they use chat GBT for idea generation. And I think, let's say Ashley, I think Ashley Mason, I think was her name, from Dasha social. The same thing they use, they use a chat GPT for idea generation, not not necessarily for creating the content, but for idea generation and the ideas it comes up with. It could be it can save you a lot of time. Well, Michael Hingson ** 30:48 it can. And you know, I've heard over the last year plus how a lot of school teachers are very concerned that kids will just go off and get chat GPT to write their papers. And every time I started hearing that, I made the comment, why not let it do that? You're not thinking about it in the right way. If a kid goes off and just uses chat GPT to write their paper, they do that and they turn it into you. The question is, then, what are you as the teacher, going to do? And I submit that what the teachers ought to do is, when they assign a paper and the class all turns in their papers, then what you do is you take one period, and you give each student a minute to come up and defend without having the paper in front of them their paper. You'll find out very quickly who knows what. And it's, I think it's a potentially great teaching tool that Dan Swift ** 31:48 is fascinating, that perspective is awesome. I love that. Speaker 1 ** 31:52 Well, it makes sense. It Dan Swift ** 31:55 certainly does. It certainly does. And that made me think of this too. You know, there's a lot of pushback from from artists about how that, you know, their their art was being used, or art is being used by AI to generate, you know, new art, essentially. And and musicians are saying the same thing that they're taking our stuff, it's getting fed into chat, GPT or whatever, and they're using it to train these different models. And I read this, this article. I don't even know where it was, but it's probably a couple months ago at this point. And the person made this comparison, and the person said, you know, it's really no different than a person learning how to paint in school by studying other people's art. You know, it's the same idea. It's just at a much, much much accelerated pace. And I thought, you know what that's that's kind of interesting. It's an interesting Michael Hingson ** 32:45 perspective. It is. I do agree that we need to be concerned, that the human element is important. And there are a lot of things that people are are doing already to misuse some of this, this AI stuff, these AI tools, but we already have the dark web. We've had that for a while, too. I've never been to the dark web. I don't know how to get to it. That's fine. I don't need to go to the dark web. Besides that, I'll bet it's not accessible anyway. But the we've had the dark web, and people have accepted the fact that it's there, and there are people who monitor it and and all that. But the reality is, people are going to misuse things. They're going to be people who will misuse and, yeah, we have to be clever enough to try to ferret that out. But the fact of the matter is, AI offers so much already. One of the things that I heard, oh, gosh, I don't whether it was this year or late last year, was that, using artificial intelligence, Pfizer and other organizations actually created in only a couple of days? Or moderna, I guess, is the other one, the COVID vaccines that we have. If people had to do it alone, it would have taken them years that that we didn't have. And the reality is that using artificial intelligence, it was only a few days, and they had the beginnings of those solutions because they they created a really neat application and put the system to work. Why wouldn't we want to do that? Dan Swift ** 34:23 I completely agree. I completely agree. And that's, again, that's how you move society forward. You know, it's similar to the idea of, you know, testing medicine on or testing medications on animals. For instance, you know, I love animals. You know, I love dogs, bunnies. I mean, the whole, the whole gamut, you know, love animals, but I understand the importance of, you know, well, do we test on them, or do we press on people, you know, you gotta, or do you not test? Or do just not you like you gotta. You gotta weigh out the pros and cons. And they're, they're definitely, definitely those with AI as well. Michael Hingson ** 34:56 Well, I agree, and I. With animals and people. Now, I mean, as far as I'm concerned, we ought to be doing tests on politicians. You know, they're not people. Anyway. So I think when you decide to become a politician, you take a special pill that nobody seems to be able to prove, but they take dumb pills, so they're all there. But anyway, I'm with Mark Twain. Congress is at Grand Ole benevolent asylum for the helpless. So I'm an equal opportunity abuser, which is why we don't do politics on unstoppable mindset. We can have a lot of fun with it, I'm sure, but we sure could. It would be great talk about artificial intelligence. You got politicians. But the reality is that it's, it's really something that that brings so much opportunity, and I'm and it's going to continue to do that, and every day, as we see advances in what AI is doing, we will continue to see advances and what is open for us to be able to utilize it to accomplish, which is cool. I Dan Swift ** 36:04 completely agree. Completely agree. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 36:06 so it'll be fun to see you know kind of how it goes. So are you, do you work for a company now that makes websites? Or what is your company that you work for? Do, sure. Dan Swift ** 36:16 So I'm still in the education space, so I'm still, I'm like, in a state school managing a team of web professionals. Michael Hingson ** 36:23 Okay, well, that's cool. So you keep the school sites and all the things that go along with it up at all that Dan Swift ** 36:31 is correct. And we have lots of fun challenges when we start to integrate with third parties and got to make sure they're accessible too. And sometimes there's dialog that goes back and forth that people aren't happy with but, but it's my job to make sure, that's one of the things that we make sure happens, especially since I'm sure you've been following this. There's the Department of Justice ruling back in April, but I think it's anyone that's receiving state funding, they have to be. They have to follow the WCAG. Two point, I think, 2.1 double A compliance by April of 26 if you are a certain size, and my my institution, falls into that category. So we need to make sure that we were on the right path Michael Hingson ** 37:06 well. And the reality is that has been around since 2010 but it took the the DOJ 12 years to finally come up with rules and regulations to implement section 508. Yep, but it's it's high time they did and they do need to do it for the rest of the internet, and that's coming, but people are just being slow. And for me personally, I think it's just amazing that it's taking so long. It's not like you have to redesign a box, that you have to go off and retool hardware. This is all code. Why should it be that difficult to do? But people throw roadblocks in your way, and so it becomes tough. Yeah, it's Dan Swift ** 37:47 interesting, too. I remember reading this article, oh, gosh, this is probably, this is probably about a dozen years ago, and it said that, you know, the original web was 100% accessible, that it was just, you know, just text on a page pretty much. And you could do very, very simple layouts, you know, and then it got more convoluted. People would start doing tables for layouts, and tables within tables within tables, and so on and so forth. Like the original web it was, it was completely accessible. And now with, with all the the interactions we do with with client side scripting and everything like that, is just, it's a mess. If Michael Hingson ** 38:19 you really want to hear an interesting thing, I like to look and I've done it for a long time, long before accessibe. I like to explore different sites and see how accessible they are. And one day I visited nsa.gov, the National Security Agency, which, of course, doesn't really exist. So I could tell you stories, but I went to nsa.gov, and I found that that was the most accessible website I had ever encountered. If you arrow down to a picture, for example, when you arrowed into it, suddenly you got on your screen reader a complete verbal description of what the picture was, and everything about that site was totally usable and totally accessible. I'd never seen a website that was so good contrast that with and it's changed. I want to be upfront about it, Martha Stewart Living. The first time I went to that website because I was selling products that Martha Stewart was interested. So I went to look at the website. It was totally inaccessible. The screen reader wouldn't talk at all. Now, I've been to Martha Stewart since, and it's and it's much more accessible, but, but I was just amazed@nsa.gov was so accessible. It was amazing, which I thought was really pretty cool. Of all places. You Dan Swift ** 39:41 know, it's interesting. Before I started my my YouTube channel and podcast, I actually thought about creating a channel and or podcast about websites that are inaccessible, and I thought about calling companies out. And the more I thought about it, I was like, I don't know if I want to make that many people angry. I don't know if that's a Michael Hingson ** 39:58 good idea. I'm. Would suggest going the other way, and maybe, you know, maybe we can work together on it. But I would rather feature websites that are accessible and tell the story of how they got there, how their people got there. I would think that would be, I hear what you're saying about making people angry. So I would think, rather than doing that, feature the places that are and why they are and and their stories, and that might help motivate more people to make their websites accessible. What do you think about that as an idea? Dan Swift ** 40:28 I actually thought about that as well, and I was going backwards between that and and the other the negative side, because I thought, you know, bring that to light. Might actually force them to like by shedding light on it, might force them to make their site more accessible, whether what or not or not, no, but I definitely thought about those two sites. Michael Hingson ** 40:45 Yeah, it's, it's, it's a challenge all the way around. Well, what was the very first thing you did, the first experience that you ever had dealing with accessibility that got you started down that road. Dan Swift ** 40:58 I think it was like I said, when I work with that, that blind person, when I, when I first had that opportunity to see how he used the different web applications, we had the different web pages, and he was using a Mac. So he was using VoiceOver, he was using the, I think it's called the rotor menu, or roto something like that. Yeah, yep. So then after that happened, it was like, whoa. I need to get them back so I can, like, learn to use this as well and do my own testing. So the IT department had an old I asked them. I said, Hey guys, do you have any any old MacBooks that I can use? I was like, it can be old. I just need to test it. I need to, I need it to test for accessibility on the web. They hooked me up with an old machine, you know, it wasn't super old, you know, but it was. It worked for me. It gave me an opportunity to do my testing, and then I kind of became like the person in the department to do that. Everyone else, they didn't have the interest as much as I did. They recognized the importance of it, but they, they didn't have the same fire on the inside that I had, so I kind of took that on, and then like that. Now that I'm in the position of leadership, now it's more of a delegating that and making sure it still gets done. But I'm kind of like the resident expert in our in our area, so I'm still kind of the person that dives in a little bit by trying to make my team aware and do the things they need to do to make sure we're continuing, continuing to create accessible projects. You Michael Hingson ** 42:20 mentioned earlier about the whole idea of third party products and so on and and dealing with them. What do you do? And how do you deal with a company? Let's say you you need to use somebody else's product and some of the things that the school system has to do, and you find they're not accessible. What do you do? Dan Swift ** 42:42 So a lot of times, what will happen, I shouldn't say a lot of times. It's not uncommon for a department to make a purchase from a third party, and this is strictly, I'm talking in the web space. They might, they might make a purchase with a third party, and then they want us to integrate it. And this is a great example I had. It was actually in the spring the this, they had essentially a widget that would be on the on their particular set of pages, and there was a pop up that would appear. And don't get me started on pop ups, because I got very strong opinion about those. Me too, like I said, growing up, you know, late 90s, early 2000s very, very strong opinions about pop ups. So, but, but I encountered this, and it wasn't accessible. And I'm glad that in the position I'm in, I could say this unit, you need to talk to the company, and they need to fix this, or I'm taking it down. And I'm glad that I had the backing from, you know, from leadership, essentially, that I could do, I can make that claim and then do that, and the company ended up fixing it. So that was good. Another example was another department was getting ready to buy something. Actually, no, they had already purchased it, but they hadn't implemented it yet. The first example that was already implemented, that was I discovered that after the fact. So in the second example, they were getting ready to implement it, and they showed us another school that used it also a pop up. And I looked at it on the on the other school site, and I said, this isn't accessible. We cannot use this. No. And they said, Well, yes, it is. And I said, No, it isn't. And I explained to them, and I showed them how it was not accessible, and they ended up taking it back to their developers. Apparently there was a bug that they then fixed and they made it accessible, and then we could implement it. So it's nice that like that. I have the support from from leadership, that if there is something that is inaccessible, I have the power to kind of wheel my fist and take that down, take it off of our site. Do Michael Hingson ** 44:31 you ever find that when some of this comes up within the school system, that departments push back, or have they caught on and recognize the value of accessibility, so they'll be supportive. Dan Swift ** 44:45 I think the frustration with them becomes more of we bought this tool. We wish we had known this was an issue before we bought I think it's more of a like like that. We just wasted our time and money, possibly. But generally speaking, they do see the. Value of it, and they've recognized the importance of it. It's just more of a when others, there's more hoops everyone has to go through. Michael Hingson ** 45:05 Yeah, and as you mentioned with pop ups, especially, it's a real challenge, because you could be on a website, and a lot of times A pop up will come up and it messes up the website for people with screen readers and so on. And part of the problem is we don't even always find the place to close or take down the pop up, which is really very frustrating Dan Swift ** 45:30 Exactly, exactly the tab index could be off, or you could still be on the page somewhere, and it doesn't allow you to get into it and remove it, or, yeah, and extra bonus points if they also have an audio playing or a video playing inside of that. Michael Hingson ** 45:44 Yeah, it really does make life a big challenge, which is very, very frustrating all the way around. Yeah, pop ups are definitely a big pain in the butt, and I know with accessibility, we're we're all very concerned about that, but still, pop ups do occur. And the neat thing about a product like accessibe, and one of the reasons I really support it, is it's scalable, and that is that as the people who develop the product at accessibe improve it, those improvements filter down to everybody using the widget, which is really cool, and that's important, because with individual websites where somebody has to code it in and keep monitoring it, as you pointed out, the problem is, if that's all you have, then you've got to keep paying people to to monitor everything, to make sure everything stays accessible and coded properly, whereas there are ways to be able to take advantage of something like accessibe, where what you're able to do is let it, monitor it, and as accessibe learns, and I've got some great examples where people contacted me because they had things like a shopping cart on a website that didn't work, but when accessibe fixed it, because it turns out there was something that needed to be addressed that got fixed for anybody using the product. Which is really cool. Dan Swift ** 47:07 Yeah, that's really neat. I definitely appreciate things like that where, you know, you essentially fix something for one person, it's fixed for everyone, or a new feature gets added for someone, or, you know, a group of people, for instance, and then everyone is able to benefit from that. That's really, really awesome. I love that type of stuff. Michael Hingson ** 47:22 Yeah, I think it's really so cool. How has all this business with accessibility and so on affected you in terms of your YouTube channel and podcasting and so on? How do you bring that into the process? That's that's Dan Swift ** 47:37 really, really good question. I am very proud to say that I take the time to create transcripts of all my recordings, and then I go through them, and I check them for for accuracy, to make sure that things aren't correct, things are incorrect. Make sure things are correct, that they are not incorrect. So I'll make sure that those are there when the when the videos go live, those are available. Spotify creates them automatically for you. I don't know that you that I have the ability to modify them. I'm assuming I probably do, but honestly, I haven't checked into that. But so that's that's all accessible. When it comes to my web page, I make sure that all my images have the appropriate, you know, alt tags associated with them, that the the descriptions are there so people understand what the pictures are. I don't have a whole lot of pictures. Usually it's just the thumbnail for the videos, so just indicating what it is. And then I just try to be, you know, kind of, kind of text heavy. I try to make sure that my, you know, my links are not, you know, click here, learn more stuff like that. I make sure or they're not actual web addresses. I try to make sure that they're actual actionable. So when someone's using a screen reader and they go over a link, it actually is meaningful. And color contrast is another big one. I try to make sure my color contrast is meeting the appropriate level for WCAG, 2.1 double A which I can't remember what actual contrast is, but there's a contrast checker for it, which is really, really helpful Michael Hingson ** 49:00 well. And the other, the other part about it is when somebody goes to your website again, of course, accessibility is different for different people, so when you're dealing with things like contrast or whatever, do people who come to the website have the ability to monitor or not monitor, but modify some of those settings so that they get maybe a higher contrast or change colors. Or do they have that ability? Dan Swift ** 49:28 I They do not have that ability. I remember looking into a tool a while ago, and it was and actually, you know, at the school, we thought about developing a tool. It would be like a widget on the side that you could adjust on different things like that. You could do, you could remove images, you could remove animation, you could change color, contrast, that sort of thing. And it just be like a very predefined kind of kind of settings. But in my research, I found that a lot of times that causes other problems for people, and it kind of falls into the the arena of. Um, separate but equal. And there's a lot of issues with that right now in the accessibility space when it comes to the web. So for instance, there was a company, I forget what the company name was, but they had one of their things that they did was they would create text only versions of your pages. So you'd contract with them. They would they would scrape the content of your site. They would create a text version, text only version of your pages. So if people were using a screen reader, they could just follow that link and then browse the text only version. And there was litigation, and the company got sued, and the the person suing was successful, because it was essentially creating a separate argument. Michael Hingson ** 50:34 And that's not necessarily separate, but equal is the problem, because if you only got the text, pictures are put on websites, graphs are put on websites. All of those other kinds of materials are put on websites for reasons. And so what really needs to happen is that those other things need to be made accessible, which is doable, and the whole web con excessive content. Accessibility Guidelines do offer the the information as to how to do that and what to do, but it is important that that other information be made available, because otherwise it really is separate, but not totally equal at Dan Swift ** 51:11 all. That's absolutely true. Absolutely true. Yeah. So it Michael Hingson ** 51:15 is a, it is something to, you know, to look at well, you've been doing a podcast and so on for a while. What are some challenges that someone might face that you advise people about if they're going to create their own podcast or a really productive YouTube channel, Dan Swift ** 51:31 be real with yourself with the amount of time you have to dedicate to it, because what I found is that it takes a lot more time than I originally anticipated I thought going in, I thought, you know, so I typically try to record one or two people a week. When I first started out, I was only recording one person. And usually I would do, you know, record one day, edit the next day, you know, do the web page stuff. I would go with it, you know, I can knock it out in like an hour or two. But I wasn't anticipating the social media stuff that goes with it, the search engine optimization that goes with it, the research that goes with it, trying to so if I'm if I'm producing a video that's going to go on YouTube, what's hot at the moment? What are people actually searching for? What's going to grab people's attention? What kind of thumbnail do I have to create to grab someone's attention, where it's not clickbait, but it also represents what I'm actually talking to the person about, and still interesting. So it's a lot of a lot of that research, a lot of that sort of thing. It just eats up a lot a lot of time when it comes to like the transcripts, for instance, that was those super easy on their number of services out there that created automatically for you, and they just have to read through it and make sure it's okay. I know YouTube will do it as well. I found that YouTube isn't as good as some of the other services that are out there, but in a bind, you can at least rely on YouTube and then go and edit from that point. But yet, time is definitely a big one. I would say, if anyone is starting to do it, make sure you have some serious time to dedicate several, several hours a week, I would say, upwards, you know, probably a good, you know, four to 10 hours a week is what I would estimate in the moment. If you're looking to produce a 30 minute segment once or twice a week, I would estimate about that time. Michael Hingson ** 53:11 Yeah, one of the things I've been hearing about videos is that that the trend is is clearly not to have long videos, but only 32nd videos, and put them vertical as opposed to horizontal. And anything over 30 seconds is is not good, which seems to me to really not challenge people to deal with having enough content to make something relevant, because you can't do everything in 30 seconds exactly, Dan Swift ** 53:41 and what I found too. So this was very this was a little bit of a learning curve for me. So with, with the YouTube shorts that you have, they have to be a minute or less. I mean, now they're actually in the process of changing it to three minutes or less. I do not have that access yet, but it has Go ahead, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so. But what I'm finding Michael is that the people that so I might create this a great example. So I was interviewing a comedian in New York City, Meredith Dietz, awesome, awesome episode. But I was talking to her about becoming a comedian, and I made about four different shorts for her from her video, and I was doing a new one each week to kind of promote it. And the videos, for me, they were getting a lot I was getting anywhere between maybe 315 100 views on the short for me, that was awesome. For other people, you know, that might be nothing, but for me, that was awesome. But what I found was that the people that watch the shorts aren't necessarily the same people that watch the long form videos. So I'm or, or I might get subscribers from people that watch the shorts, but then they're not actually watching the video. And in the end, that kind of hurts your channel, because it's showing, it's telling the YouTube I'm gonna use air quotes, YouTube algorithm that my subscribers aren't interested in my content, and it ends up hurting me more. So anyone that's trying to play that game. And be aware of that. You know, you can't get more subscribers through shorts, but if you're not converting them, it's going to hurt you. Michael Hingson ** 55:05 I can accept three minutes, but 30 seconds just seems to be really strange. And I was asked once to produce a demonstration of accessibe on a website. They said you got to do it in 30 seconds, or no more than a minute, but preferably 30 seconds. Well, you can't do that if, in part, you're also trying to explain what a screen reader is and everything else. The reality is, there's got to be some tolerance. And I think that the potential is there to do that. But it isn't all about eyesight, which is, of course, the real issue from my perspective. Anyway. Dan Swift ** 55:41 Yeah, I completely agree. I think what YouTube is trying to do, and I believe in getting this from Tiktok, I think Tiktok has three up to three minutes. Actually, there might be 10 minutes now that I think about it, but, but I think they're trying to follow the trend, and it's like, let's make videos slightly longer and see how that goes. So be very curious to see how that all pans out. Michael Hingson ** 55:58 Well. And I think that makes sense. I think there's some value in that, but 30 seconds is not enough time to get real content, and if people dumb down to that point, then that's pretty scary. So I'm glad to hear that the trend seems to be going a little bit longer, which is, which is a good thing, which is pretty important to be able to do. Yeah, I completely Dan Swift ** 56:21 agree. Because like that, the trend right now, it's, you know, people, they want stuff immediately, and if you don't catch them in 10 seconds, they're swiping onto something else, which is which is very challenging, at least, especially for me and what I do. Who's Michael Hingson ** 56:32 the most inspiring guest that you've ever had on your podcast? Dan Swift ** 56:37 Michael, this is a good one. This is a good one. So the video for Ashley Mason. She is a social media marketing she created a social medi
On this episode, Coach Moriarty returns to the show! Coach Moriarty is the Tight Ends/H-Backs Coach at East Texas A&M Twitter: CoachMort57 Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
You're invited to join CSS for a Sustainability Open House on April 24, 2025. Director of Sustainability, Jamie Carson, tells us this engaging event aims to highlight CSS's ongoing sustainability efforts, foster community feedback, and promote environmental stewardship, with a special focus on youth, families, and teachers.
Scott and Wes talk about the planning process for a major redesign of the Syntax.fm website. They share their thoughts on organizing tasks, choosing tech, handling styling, and the debates that come with deciding what to keep and what to change. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 01:36 Brought to you by Sentry.io. 02:48 Why we need version 3.0 of Syntax.fm. Level Up Tutorials, Travis Neilson. 04:41 Project planning and organization. 05:53 The codebase. 09:50 The CSS changes. Episode 770: Design Systems With Brad Frost. 12:27 Tooling. 15:54 Development process. 16:38 Mobile and responsiveness. 18:37 Saving VS Code extension into the repo. 19:56 Using a dev container. 20:53 AI agent rules. 21:35 Code styles. 23:42 Canadian podcast. 24:33 Content storage. Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads
On this episode, Coach Adam Rice returns to the show! Coach Rice is the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at WJ Keenan High School. We talk about spread offense, keeping things simple, and much more! Twitter: coachadamrice Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
On this episode, Coach Cruce joins the podcast! Coach Cruce is the offensive coordinator at the University of North Alabama. We discuss his coaching journey. How to install their offense. And more! Twitter: coachadamrice Please like, subscribe, review, and share out! https://linktr.ee/thecoachsteveshow Check out belly up sports podcast network! https://bellyupsports.com/ Head to www.guardiansports.com/guardian-caps and use the code: “15OFF” – good for 15% off Guardian Caps to help the impact for football players Get back to the basics with Coach Stone: https://www.coachstonefootball.com/ Get the best sunglasses in the game today! Use for any activity! Go to https://www.yeetzofficial.com/ use the code CSS for 10% off Looking for the cleanest nutrition drink? Looking for the cleanest drink to give you energy without the crash? Head to https://www.swiftlifestyles.com/ and use the code: coachsteveshow to get 15% off! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Quinn Li started into tech well before college. In High School, she was into fashion and would take pictures of herself and her friends. She wanted to share these pictures, and found her way to Squarespace - which ultimately, led her getting into HTML and CSS - and the rest is history. Outside of tech, she plays a lot of tennis, and teaches Aerial. I had to ask what this was, and she explained it was the art form that you see in the circus, when people are climbing the sheets in the air, acrobatically.Quinn Li has been focused on productivity throughout her career. As she started to swing her focus to building connections at work through play. One of the games she and her team built went viral on TikTok - and they knew they were on to something.This is the creation story of Braid.SponsorsPropelAuthTeclaSpeakeasyQA WolfSnapTradeLinkshttps://www.trybraid.io/https://www.linkedin.com/in/qloshea/Our Sponsors:* Check out Kinsta: https://kinsta.com* Check out Red Hat: https://www.redhat.com* Check out Vanta: https://vanta.com/CODESTORYSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/code-story/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
ThePrimeagen (aka Michael Paulson) is a programmer who has educated, entertained, and inspired millions of people to build software and have fun doing it. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep461-sc See below for timestamps, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. CONTACT LEX: Feedback - give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey AMA - submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama Hiring - join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring Other - other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact EPISODE LINKS: ThePrimeagen's X: https://twitter.com/ThePrimeagen ThePrimeagen's YouTube: https://youtube.com/ThePrimeTimeagen ThePrimeagen's Twitch: https://twitch.tv/ThePrimeagen ThePrimeagen's GitHub: https://github.com/theprimeagen ThePrimeagen's TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@theprimeagen ThePrimeagen's Coffee: https://www.terminal.shop/ SPONSORS: To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: Invideo AI: AI video generator. Go to https://invideo.io/i/lexpod Shopify: Sell stuff online. Go to https://shopify.com/lex NetSuite: Business management software. Go to http://netsuite.com/lex BetterHelp: Online therapy and counseling. Go to https://betterhelp.com/lex AG1: All-in-one daily nutrition drinks. Go to https://drinkag1.com/lex OUTLINE: (00:00) - Introduction (10:27) - Love for programming (20:00) - Hardest part of programming (22:16) - Types of programming (29:54) - Life story (39:58) - Hardship (41:29) - High school (47:15) - Porn addiction (57:01) - God (1:12:44) - Perseverance (1:22:40) - Netflix (1:35:08) - Groovy (1:40:13) - Printf() debugging (1:46:35) - Falcor (1:56:05) - Breaking production (1:58:49) - Pieter Levels (2:03:19) - Netflix, Twitch, and YouTube infrastructure (2:15:22) - ThePrimeagen origin story (2:30:37) - Learning programming languages (2:39:40) - Best programming languages in 2025 (2:44:35) - Python (2:45:15) - HTML & CSS (2:46:05) - Bash (2:46:45) - FFmpeg (2:53:28) - Performance (2:56:00) - Rust (3:00:48) - Epic projects (3:14:12) - Asserts (3:23:26) - ADHD (3:31:34) - Productivity (3:35:58) - Programming setup (4:11:28) - Coffee (4:18:32) - Programming with AI (5:01:16) - Advice for young programmers (5:12:48) - Reddit questions (5:20:20) - God PODCAST LINKS: - Podcast Website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast - Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr - Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 - RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ - Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 - Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/lexclips
SANS Internet Stormcenter Daily Network/Cyber Security and Information Security Stormcast
Static Analysis of GUID Encoded Shellcode Didier explains how to decode shell code embeded as GUIDs in malware, and how to feed the result to his tool 1768.py which will extract Cobal Strike configuration information from the code. https://isc.sans.edu/diary/Static%20Analysis%20of%20GUID%20Encoded%20Shellcode/31774 SAMLStorm: Critical Authentication Bypass in xml-crypto and Node.js libraries xml-crypto, a library use in Node.js applications to decode XML and support SAML, has found to parse comments incorrectly leading to several SAML vulnerabilities. https://workos.com/blog/samlstorm One PUT Request to Own Tomcat: CVE-2025-24813 RCE is in the Wild A just made public deserialization vulnerablity in Tomcat is already being exploited. Contributing to the rapid exploit release is the similarity of this vulnerability to other Java deserializtion vulnerabilities. https://lab.wallarm.com/one-put-request-to-own-tomcat-cve-2025-24813-rce-is-in-the-wild/ CVE-2025-24813 CSS Abuse for Evasion and Tracking Attackers are using cascading stylesheets to evade detection and enable more stealthy tracking of users https://blog.talosintelligence.com/css-abuse-for-evasion-and-tracking/
Scott and Wes dig into the wild world of CSS fonts—covering fallbacks, variable fonts, and new tricks like text-box-trim. They also break down font-display, font kits, and how to avoid layout shifts when loading custom type. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 01:06 Brought to you by Sentry.io. Damnit Sans. 02:53 @font-face. 03:27 Font Display. 07:40 Avoiding layout shift. Fallbacks. 10:45 Variable fonts. Fontaine. font-kit Wakamai Fondue. Syntax Ep. 782. Font Variation Settings. 16:23 Variable font sizing. 17:46 v-fonts. 19:10 text-box-trim & text-box-edge. text-box-trim examples. 21:28 Browser support. Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads
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