Grounded in reality and untamed honesty, Libby Sinback tackles the hard questions about how to create and maintain authentic, loving and healthy nonmonogamous relationships.
Libby talks about the costs of operating your time, energy, and attention at full capacity by default, and why it's worth considering intentionally having more downtime to recharge and also so that you have some room to push if there's a need or crisis. Happiness is Other People: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/opinion/sunday/happiness-is-other-people.html One Secret to Happiness: Relationships: https://www.thestatesman.com/lifestyle/75-year-harvard-study-1-scientific-secret-happiness-1503068121.html Why Your Brain Needs More Downtime: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mental-downtime/ Fuck your Dig Deep Button: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CcibA5bFq0D/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Did you know that marriage as conventionally practiced in the 21st century (in a lot of the world at least) is actually like... 9 different relationships. In this episode, Libby explains those 9 relationships, and how what marriage is trying to do is pack a whole village into one other person. She asks the question, what could we do instead that might work better? ----------------------- SHOW LINKS Marriage, a History, by Stephanie Coontz: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/291184/marriage-a-history-by-stephanie-coontz/ The Relational Nonmonogamy Circle: https://libbysinback.com/rnmc --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
How empowered are you in your relationships? Have you stopped to notice where you might be disempowered... or too empowered? In this episode, Libby talks about power dynamics and how important it is to name them if you want to have relationally-empowered partnerships. -------------------------- Libby is presenting at Southwest Lovefest Virtual Con April 24th! https://www.swlovefest.com/virtualcon22 Want help creating empowered relationships? Check out the Relational Nonmonogamy Circle. Next cohort starts April 25. https://libbysinback.com/rnmc/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Do you know what drop is? In this episode, Libby explains drop, what it is, why it's rough, and what you can do to make it a little easier to deal with. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
The relationship veto is a controversial topic in polyamory circles. Libby talks about what vetoes are, how they can happen without being called a veto, and how they aren't always a bad thing. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
"Intent doesn't matter." That statement has cropped up in multiple conversations online and in person over the years. In this epsiode, Libby shares why that simply isn't true, at least not when it comes to a valued relationship. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby speaks to parents of adult polyamorous children who may be having a hard time with the idea. SHOW LINKS: It's Called Polyamory: https://thorntreepress.com/its-called-polyamory/ When Someone You Love is Polyamorous: https://thorntreepress.com/when-someone-you-love-is-polyamorous/ The Coffee Break Primer on Polyamory: https://adapowers.medium.com/the-coffee-break-polyamory-primer-6c64b4dc53de This Heart Holds Many, My Life as the Nonbinary Millennial Child of a Polyamorous Family: https://thorntreepress.com/thisheartholdsmany/ The Polyamorists Next Door on Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-polyamorists-next-door --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
One of the most important things in relationship is to act with intention rather than reactivity, but if we're so busy and distracted all the time, it's really hard to slow down enough to do anything but react when we're upset. Libby invites you to ask yourself this question, "Are you checking out or checking in?" Show Links: Your Smartphone is Making you Stupid: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/08/a-sitting-phone-gathers-brain-dross/535476/ Proactive vs. Reactive: https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/307309 Smartphone addiction: https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/dopamine-smartphones-battle-time/ Tara Brach and RAIN: https://www.tarabrach.com/rain/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this epsiode, Libby gives you her best tips for having awesome sexytimes with groups of 3 or more. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby talks about the effect withdrawal patterns can have on our nervous systems, and how to navigate that if it is showing up in your relationship. -------------------- Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
There are times in our relationships when we really need something from our partners. -------------------- Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Sometimes in our relationships we reach a point where something needs to change or it just won't work for us. But is that even possible? Or do you have to break up? Libby goes over two losing strategies that a lot of people try when they want something different from their partner than what they're getting, and offers what she believes is a better way to get what you want. -------------------- Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
By listener request, Libby talks about the one p*nis policy and why it's not a great idea (and the one time it's okay.) CN: language. Libby uses several words for the male genitalia on this episode. -------------------- RECOMMENDED READING For the Love of Men by Liz Plank The Will to Change by bell hooks I Don't Wanna Talk About It by Terrence Real Playing Fair by Pepper Mint Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In her recent workshop Break Up Better, Libby answers a question from a participant: "How can I get the other person to own their part to help with closure [after a breakup]?" -------------------------- The Break Up Better Workshop is still available! You can purchase the recording here: https://libbysinback.com/break-up-better/ Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby has special guest Terry Real join her on the show to talk about how patriarchy does its work on our relationships, even for those of us who choose to do things differently. ---------------------- Terry Real's website: https://terryreal.com ---------------------- Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for Breaking Up Better: https://libbysinback.com/break-up-better/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby blows up the idea that there is any difference between rules and agreements and offers some alternative ways to communicate and negotiate needs in polyamorous relationships. ------------------------- Break Up Better Workshop on November 30 at 7:30 PM: https://libbysinback.com/break-up-better/ Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby shares her best tips for coming out as polyamorous, mostly hard won through her own coming out mishaps. ------------------------- Break Up Better Workshop on November 30 at 7:30 PM: https://libbysinback.com/break-up-better/ Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby outlines 3 different scenarios in which it's unclear who is the giver and who is the receiver, and how a magical tool called the Wheel of Consent is a great tool to help answer this question. Betty Martin's website: https://bettymartin.org/ The Wheel of Consent: https://bettymartin.org/videos/ --------------------------------- Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby reviews some of the biggest challenges that can show up around the holiday season when you're non-monogamous and how to navigate them without exploding an already stressful season. ------------------------ Kathy Labriola on Polyam Holidays: https://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/poly-holiday-tips Elisabeth Sheff on not coming out during the holidays: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-polyamorists-next-door/201612/poly-the-holidays ------------------------ The Relational Nonmonogamy Circle: https://libbysinback.com/rnmc Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
On this episode, Libby is joined by Mel Cassidy of Radical Relationship Coaching to discuss a question from a listener about how to navigate polyamory when a partner is struggling with their mental health. Visit Mel on the web: http://radicalrelationshipcoaching.ca/ ---------------------------------------- Find Libby on the web: https://libbysinback.com Join the Relational Nonmonogamy Circle: https://libbysinback.com/rnmc/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby talks about how to respond when someone you love gives you feedback from a hurtful, attacking or otherwise unhelpful place. -------------------------------- Find Libby on the web at https://libbysinback.com Join the Relational Nonmonogamy Circle at http://relationalnonmonogamy.com Sign up for a free coaching session at https://libbysinback.com/apply --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby discusses the 6 phases of relationships, and the one that she thinks is the most important, and most often overlooked. ------------------------ Find Libby on the web at https://libbysinback.com Join the Relational Nonmonogamy Circle at http://relationalnonmonogamy.com Sign up for a free coaching session at https://libbysinback.com/apply --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
After an unexpectedly long hiatus, Making Polyamory Work returns. [To sign up for the Relational Nonmonogamy Circle, go to http://relationalnonmonogamy.com] --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby invites her best friend Mara on the podcast to answer a listener who recently discovered they were queer. Libby and Mara what it was like for them to realize you're queer later in life. ------------------------ MORE READING FOR YOU: Bisexual vs. Pansexual: https://www.minus18.org.au/articles/what's-the-difference-between-bisexual-and-pansexual Does Being Polyamorous Mean that You're Queer Belong: https://medium.com/polyamory-today/polyamory-and-the-lgbt-community-3a8a52debbc3 -------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com The Relational Nonmonogamy Circle: http://relationalnonmonogamy.com Learn more about coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
This episode welcomes a special guest, Mary Thuell, to answer a listener question about being asked to put her relationship on pause so her partner can work things out in their nested relationship. Mary and Libby share their thoughts and experiences with this situation. -------------------- SHOW LINKS She's a Polyamorous Sunday School Teacher: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/shes-a-polyamorous-sunday-school-teacher-one-of-those-things-bothered-her-date/2019/04/08/394a1096-4a64-11e9-b79a-961983b7e0cd_story.html Emily Dickenson's Letter to Mary Bowles: http://archive.emilydickinson.org/correspondence/mbowles/l262.html --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby shares one way she likes to handle jealousy - say thank you to it? -------------------------- OTHER GREAT RESOURCES ON JEALOUSY The Jealousy Workbook: Insights and Techniques for Managing Open Relationships by Kathy Labriola The Jealousy Survival Guide by Kitty Chambliss Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott -------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby invites Shannon Perez-Darby to answer a listener question about what to do when you're in a relationship with someone who is in what appears to be an abusive relationship. CN: abuse, domestic violence ---------------- SHOW NOTES National Domestic Violence Hotline: https://www.thehotline.org/ (or call 1-800-799-SAFE) Shannon Perez-Darby: https://www.shannonperezdarby.com/ Resources for Accountability and Transformative Justice and Supporting Safer Communities: https://transformharm.org/ Friendship as Social Justice Activism: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/distributed/F/bo26275235.html ---------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby introduces an unusually effective tool for combatting overconfidence without ruining the fun when you're in the throes of new relationship energy. ----------------- SHOW LINKS Freakonomics Episode on Failure: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/failure-is-your-friend-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ ----------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Finally an episode on polyamorous parenting. Libby shares her take. -------------------------------- SHOW LINKS How to Talk so Kids Will Listen & Listen so Kids Will Talk: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/769016.How_to_Talk_So_Kids_Will_Listen_Listen_So_Kids_Will_Talk Untamed: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52129515-untamed On Disruption: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/episodes/When-Life-is-Turned-Upside-Down-ecpob2 Slow Down to Break Up: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/episodes/Slow-Down-to-Break-Up-edjjsa -------------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby talks about the gift of time apart. ------------------ Esther Perel: Sex Needs Space - https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sex-needs-space_b_136540 ----------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby offers ways to create a culture of appreciation within your relationship, and why that is important, but also how it can sometimes be hard. ------------------------------- SHOW LINKS The Gottman Institute on a Culture of Appreciation: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/happily-ever-after/372573/ I Appreciate... Exercise: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ofEdpMG8KqhPvS0vj6hWWucTfEZdxqHvvJkydmbVuJU/edit?usp=sharing ----------------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby talks about issues that seem to have no clear good solution. Her suggestion? Understanding the problem is more important than solving it ----------------------------------- SHOW LINKS Dreams Within Conflict Worksheet No Advice, Please (how to hold space) ----------------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
On this episode, Libby is joined by her partner Kyrr to talk about why it's important to acknowledge the truth about change. ---------------------- SHOW LINKS Giving Kickass Feedback (and When Not To): https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/episodes/Giving-Kickass-Feedback-and-When-Not-To-ego34v ---------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Lots of tips in this episode! Libby talks about techniques to manage stress and why it's so important for you and your relationships. ----------------------- SHOW LINKS Emotional Mindfulness Exercise: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10WSyLRGERQLtlFJ8uU-3BQ8kIQUwQNYaRK7KAeA-J8Y/edit Box Breathing Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOL3isokmY4 Burnout by Emily and Amelia Nagoski: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/592377/burnout-by-emily-nagoski-phd-and-amelia-nagoski-dma/ Taming your Whoosh: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/episodes/No-Advice--Please-eb1pbg No Advice, Please: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/episodes/No-Advice--Please-eb1pbg Moving from Complaint to Request: https://vickitidwellpalmer.com/turning-complaints-requests/ Stress Reducing Conversation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11VWh8j1jGCFdxm13c-rYV8E8FexKuhnr6VYeemadhi4/edit?usp=sharing ---------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
This episode is for you if you're a hinge or the point in a "vee." There's a very common trap that many hinge partners fall into that you must avoid if you don't want to be a sucky hinge. Want to know more? Listen to Libby to learn the most essential hinging skill. ------------------------------------ Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for an intro coaching session at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby is joined by a plus one in this special bonus episode. In it Libby and her guest provide advice to an anonymous post on Reddit in r/polyamory. This post is both about NRE and also being in a mono-poly hierarchical partnership. Original r/polyamory post: https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/ilmvuk/hi_guys_just_need_to_get_this_off_my_chest_and/ MPW post on NRE: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/episodes/How-to-NRE-eka8c1 ------------------------------------ Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for an intro coaching session at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Is the thought of a new relationship exciting -- or terrifying? In this episode, Libby goes into what happens when you're in a new relationship and all wrapped up in its energy, and offers some practical tips on how to navigate it. ----------------------------------- SHOW LINKS Casual Love, by Carsie Blanton: https://www.carsieblanton.com/blog/post/82149148832/casual-love Science on the brain in love: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-05/aps-lai053105.php and https://neuro.hms.harvard.edu/harvard-mahoney-neuroscience-institute/brain-newsletter/and-brain/love-and-brain ------------------------------------ Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for an intro coaching session at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Love is infinite, but time is not, and the struggle is real. In this episode, Libby offers a frame for looking at time that may be at the root of some of your challenges around time, and some creative ideas how to navigate time limitations by looking at not just the amount, but the type of time you're spending with the people you love. ------------------------------------ Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for an intro coaching session at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
But like, serious business. ------------------------------------- SHOW LINKS Listen Up Episode: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/episodes/Listen-Up-e9bv84 Rock the Boat Episode: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/episodes/Stand-Up-and-Rock-the-Boat-e9e5mf Multiamory's RADAR: https://www.multiamory.com/radar ------------------------------------ Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for an intro coaching session at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby discusses feedback in greater depth: what it is, what it isn't, and how to do it exceptionally well. ---------------------------------- SHOW LINKS The Feedback Fallacy (from the Harvard Business Review) The Engaged Feedback Checklist (pdf download) The Feedback Wheel (infographic) ---------------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for an intro coaching session at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby explains Ring Theory and how it can help people know what to say and to whom in a moment of crisis. Content note: this episode will talk about the outcry against police violence toward Black people and how Ring Theory can help white people respond and support the movement for Black lives. ---------------------- SHOW NOTES How Not to Say the Wrong Thing by Susan Silk and Barry Goldman Stacey Patton on White Women's Tears and Social Media Didi Delgado's Podcast and Facebook and Patreon Kate Anthony: 5 Racist Anti-Racism Responses “Good” White Women Give to Viral Posts Confronting racism is not about the needs and feelings of white people by Ijeoma Oluo How to be a good white ally, according to activists Scaffolded Anti-Racist Resources ----------------------- WHERE TO SEND YOUR RESOURCES Invest in your local community - patronize Black-owned businesses. Support local organizations creating alternatives to policing. Here's are some places to start: Donate to your local Black Lives Matter Chapter Donate to your Local Bail Fund Donate to the National Bail Out (if they're still taking donations) Black Visions Collective --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby talks about repair, how essential it is to having secure relationships, and outlines the steps for how to make a good repair. *From Libby: to my listeners who have been following this podcast for awhile, this is to replace the episode "If You Break if, Fix It" - which was pulled, because it didn't say what I wanted it to say. I'm much much happier with this version, which is VERY different. -------------------------------- SHOW LINKS Ed Tronick's Work on Repair Study of Parents and Preschoolers and Repair Gottman Insitute: Repair is the Secret Weapon of Emotionally Connected Couples ---------------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for an intro coaching session at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby shares her most important advice for people who are breaking up or on the brink (and even if you're not) -- slow down. --------------------------- SHOW LINKS Breaking up on Valentine's Day Normalizing Non-monogamy interview on Relationship Transitions Download the Peaceful Relationship Transitions Playbook Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for an intro coaching session at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Libby gives some sex advice for your long-term relationships. It's good. Just listen. ---------------------- SHOW LINKS Watch the Movie: Friend with Benefits 7 Ways To Make Practicing Affirmative Consent Sexy 27 Alternatives to Asking "Is This Okay?" -------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby talks about disruption and offers a 5 step process to move through it more easily. -------------------------- MORE READING 3 Vital Skills for the Age of Disruption How to Find Meaning in Suffering -------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
A quick update on why Libby took down last week's episode on repair, and what she'll be doing instead. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby gets real about what COVID-19 means for polyamorous people, but how it's also teaching all of us an essential lesson about our relationships - which is that autonomy is an illusion. We need that lesson right now. But we also always did. -------------------- Sign up for the Relationship Survival Skills class: https://libbysinback.com/survival-skills/ Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Things look pretty different in the world today than they did two weeks ago. Libby has a message for everyone as we face down new and challenging circumstances. ----------------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode, Libby talks about keeping your attention and energy toward what's really important. ------------------------------------- SHOW LINKS Kimchi Cuddles The comic I referenced Download the Relationship Vision Worksheet ------------------------------------ EVENTS WHERE LIBBY IS PRESENTING Atlanta Poly in Atlanta, February 29, 2020 Southwest Love Fest in Tucson, April 3-5, 2020 RelateCon in Boise, April 24-26, 2020 ----------------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
In this episode Libby talks about how to navigate things when metamours don't want to be friends. -------------------------------------- EVENTS WHERE LIBBY IS PRESENTING Atlanta Poly in Atlanta, February 29, 2020 Southwest Love Fest in Tucson, April 3-5, 2020 RelateCon in Boise, April 24-26, 2020 ----------------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message
Learning to hold space for people you love is an essential relationship skill. In this episode, Libby breaks down what holding space is, why it's important, and how to practice it. ------------------------------- SHOW LINKS What it Means to Hold Space for Someone by Heather Plett 11 Ways to Hold Space for Someone by Reaca Pearl -------------------------------------- EVENTS WHERE LIBBY IS PRESENTING Atlanta Poly in Atlanta, February 29, 2020 Southwest Love Fest in Tucson, April 3-5, 2020 RelateCon in Boise, April 24-26, 2020 ----------------------------------- Find Libby on the Web: https://libbysinback.com Sign up for coaching at http://talktolibby.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/makingpolywork/message