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Episode Summary Janet and Margaret talk about sustainable foraging, herbalism, wild tending, constructive ethics on why you might choose not to wildcraft, ways to impact your food intake in small but meaningful ways, unlearning extractive tendencies when harvesting food and medicine, and upholding indigenous wisdom around wild tending. Guest Info Janet (she/her) is an herbalist and teacher at the Terra Sylva School of Botanical Medicine. Janet can be found on wordpress at Radical Vitalism The school can be found on Instagram @terrasylvaschool. Janet does a podcast called The Book on Fire. Janet recommends reading The Honorable Harvest by Robin Wall Kimmerer. Host Info Margaret can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Transcript Janet on Sustainable Foraging Margaret 00:14 Hello, and welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I'm your host today, Margaret Killjoy. And this week we're going to be talking about herbalism and foraging and sustainable foraging of herbalism, and forage....[Trails off] That's what we're gonna be talking about with with Janet Kent, who you all have heard from before on another episode from a long time ago, about herbalism. And I think you'll all get a lot out of this episode. But first, this podcast is a proud member of the Channel Zero network of anarchists podcasts. And here's a jingle from another show on the network. Margaret 01:12 And we're back. Okay, so Janet, if you could introduce yourself with your name, which I guess I already said, and your pronouns and kind of what you do for a living as, which would help people understand why they should listen to you about this topic. Janet 01:44 I am Janet Kent, my pronouns are she/her. I run a school of botanical medicine that's located about an hour outside of Asheville, in southern Appalachia, and in so called Western North Carolina. And I'm also a clinical herbalist. And I also live in hardwood co [conifer] forest. And so I'm surrounded by wild plants. And specifically, like this region of southern Appalachia has a long history of settler wild crafting as a kind of hustle. And there were a lot of...when most pharmaceuticals came out of plants back in the day, this was a huge nexus of harvesting and distributing, and people extracted a lot of plants from the wild as a means of survival and sold them to the pharmaceutical companies. So, that is partially because this is a really ecologically rich place. But, I say all that just to say that I'm surrounded by plants that have medicinal value, even in like the larger market outside of the home forager or home apothecary. So, it's something that like, we have to really think about here and are forced to. Even though we're surrounded by the medicine, the ethics of that are something that I think about pretty regularly. So, I might be better situated than some to consider that. Yeah, Margaret 03:13 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And that's why I wanted to have you on to talk today, right? Because I feel like this is this question that is coming up more and more as foraging becomes a little bit more mainstream. Or? Well, I guess, actually, to start with, we were talking earlier, and you talked about how there's sort of a foraging craze that's coming from the pandemic, I was wondering if you could kind of talk about that, like what's happening right now in foraging? 03:38 Yeah, I mean, while I do think there was a much more of a burst during the pandemic, when people were getting outside more. Public spaces, and parks became more visited once they were open again. And you saw just a lot more people out. I don't know, like how much time you spend in public spaces. But, there was a huge increase in people national parks, and national forests, State Forest, all of those kinds of places. And even just in city parks and such. And I think that there has been a lot of social media content that's being created around foraging. And it is like a way that people can get excited about gathering their own food. It can be a really nice, like gateway to like relationships with plants, because people start to learn to identify plants and learn what is food. And I definitely think that there's no small part of this that is also connected to people wanting to spend less money on food. I mean, we have applicants for school sometimes even say, you know, like, I want to learn more about plants that are useful for food and for medicine, because I need to spend less money. So there's like an economic incentive here, as well. And I should probably spend some time on that in a bit. But, also I would just say that over the last...I don't know, it's probably been more than a decade, there has just been a surge in interest in wild plants, including for food and for medicine. Margaret 05:10 Yeah. And that's either really good or really bad depending on who you ask, Is that what's Is that what's happening right now? Janet 05:19 Yeah, I would say that there can be pretty binary of viewpoints on this. And it's interesting, I mean, something that you probably see with a lot of people that you interview or with different communities that you might be in as there is a rise in awareness of just the colonial project that we're all part of still. And so that this is still occupied territory. There are indigenous people here whose land settlers are occupying. There is a certain level of guilt that can come with that awareness...[interrupted] Margaret 05:56 Right? Janet 05:56 [Continues] If you are someone who is not indigenous to turtle islands, and the way that I see that play out sometimes, not always, is with people sometimes seeing kind of stark black and white ideas around what is good and what is not good, and relationship. And we see people who hear like, "We shouldn't wildcraft," or they memorize like this all wildcrafting, which is the word that herbalist and people who are into plant medicine will use to describe harvesting herbs for medicine specifically. I don't actually hear 'wildcrafting' used to refer to food. Yeah, but so wildcrafting can be seen as strictly extractive and people just taking from the wild, because as I mentioned in the introduction, there is a long history of plants being taken en mass from the forests, to serve the pharmaceutical industry. And even now, there are certain plants that are threatened and endangered because they are used, even in European markets. Margaret 07:03 Like what? Janet 07:05 Black cohosh, specifically, is an herb that is seen as being helpful for some menopausal states. And it's used in...So in Europe, it's more license legal to be a doctor who uses plant medicine. And so you can prescribe herbs there. It's more regulated as well, but definitely tons of black cohosh are sent abroad every year. And from what...I met someone who works, is sort of like from a root digging family, like a traditional Appalachian root digging family, but she said she'd been in warehouses where there was just like piles of rotting roots of black cohosh, you know, cause people... Margaret 07:48 Oh, God. Janet 07:48 Yeah, the work of, as in is usually the case, like the piece workers, the people who are gathering are paid shit. And then the stuff is piled up. It's not stored very well. Some fraction of it will make it into medicine. And so there is very much a problem with extraction en masse of plants, especially when the root is what's being harvested, because that kills the plant. Right? Margaret 08:12 Yeah. Ginseng is like one that I feel like I hear about too. Janet 08:16 Absolutely. Ginseng would be a great example. And interestingly, I mean, you may even live in ginseng country. I do, for sure. But, that's something that's, you know, has been historically, as settlers came into these mountains, have shipped abroad, because by the time the Revolutionary War happened here, already, there was a dearth of ginseng in China because so much had been wild harvested, and they hadn't really put in cultivation yet. And so, as soon as the global market, people within the global market figured out that there was a similar ginseng here, they started shipping it abroad, and actually ginseng sales helped pay for the Revolutionary War. Margaret 09:02 Oh, god. Uh huh. Janet 09:03 Which is just so wild. Yes. So, there is very much history of extraction of plants. Margaret 09:10 Yeah. For the extractive project that is the Revolutionary War Janet 09:14 Yes, absolutely, a huge scale. So, when we are thinking about our own personal use or serving our communities or, you know, a lot of people will try to make herbal products as a side hustle, then we do need to confront our personal relationship with that legacy. That's obviously really important. However, the amount of time and energy people spent in policing other people's foraging and wildcrafting is a lot, as you may imagine. Margaret 09:42 Yeah, social media is particularly good at getting us to level our weapons at each other. Yeah. Janet 09:48 Right. So, we see a lot of that, and I feel like the the climate has not been very nuanced for this conversation, because what's true, and this is probably a part of what you're wanting to get out with this episode is that there's a really big difference between digging up a 15 year old root of a plant in the forest that took that long to get that big and taking the whole root and killing it, than there is actually harvesting weeds or harvesting invasive plants or plants that are here in abundance. And actually, you can harvest some kinds of plants in a way that is supportive to the plant community that they live in, because they're opportunistic or taking too much space. And so, I think when we have a black and white rubric around this, and much like all wildcrafting is extractive, we're also forgetting that there is a way for humans to be in relationship with plant communities in a way that fosters diversity and richness in the ecology. And can be a form of wild tending. And that is how Turtle Island was maintained by all of the indigenous folks who are living in so many different plant communities around the continent before Europeans showed up and disrupted that. Margaret 11:04 Okay, so what are some of the...I like, examples. It makes it really more concrete in my head. Like, what are some of the examples of plants that you're helping that plant community by foraging or or by? Yeah. Janet 11:17 Okay. Yeah, that's, that's a good question. And there's, I'll share with you a book, there's a whole book on invasive plant medicines. And so I'm going to say 'invasive' here, I know that that's a controversial word to some people. But, what I mean is plants that came after 1492, and are opportunistic and can take over spaces, and take up space. So, that's what I mean when I'm saying that, and we can say 'non native' or 'invasive' or just 'opportunistic,' but I'm gonna say 'weedy' and 'abundant' plants here. Plantain would be a weedy and abundant plant, and mugwort can be quite opportunistic, and take over in some places. Mimosa tree, the really beautiful pink firecracker looking tree that grows in the southeast pretty abundantly is pretty opportunistic. It can take over spaces for sure, you know, and sometimes native plants are also pretty weedy as well. Yarrow is a plant that comes from Europe, that there are some native varieties too, but they tend to not be as opportunistic. A lot of garden plants that have escaped, like catnip or horehound you might find in other places, sometimes lemon balm goes feral, in some places, as well. So, those would be some examples. But, a lot of trees that you see...[corrects self ] well, it's hard to say...Trees that were planted for landscaping, and then kind of move out like, Tree of Heaven is an example. There's a lot of different trees that got brought in at various points that have spread out and can really out compete other trees. Yeah. Margaret 12:57 This is really interesting to me for a lot of reasons...I mean, I'm kind of notoriously bad for someone who like often lives off grid or like, you know, I live mostly alone on a bunch of acres in a mountain or whatever in Appalachia. And I'm like, kind of notoriously bad at actually knowing the plants around me and how to engage with them besides being like, I swear, one year, I'm gonna be here in the fall and eat the acorns. You know, has been my plan for however many years. I've done every step of acorn harvesting at various points and never actually finished it and eaten them. But, so it's just, it's kind of interesting to me because as I walk around, you know, the place that I live, I become more and more familiar with some of these plants and it's interesting to think about them in different ways. And then also think about, like, whether or not I have a desire or like, a role in sort of shaping what plants grow around me. And like, I don't even know the answer that yet. Like, I mean, what I sort of in my head, I'm like, I believe both the pines and the Oaks near me are fairly, you know, native to this area, or whatever. But, I'm like, but I like the Oaks more. And so I'm like, Is it bad to start, like, kind of cutting back the pines and like trying to propagate more of the Oaks? Like, maybe the tree level is a higher level of thinking about because they take a lot longer, but is that something that like, people should be doing in the kinds of....should be is a weird question....but [people] could think about doing in the places that they forage or, like thinking about what the current plant environment community is and what it could be shifted towards? Or is that like, do you stay out of it? This is not a question. Sorry. Janet 14:39 Yeah, no, I, I think I can pick the through line in there, which is that: what would a good relationship look like when foraging? And to me, you know, I wasn't taught this way at all. I definitely came up in herbalism when this was not part of our conversation. But, I think in general, wild tending is the way to go where you actually have a perennial relationship with the plants that you live around or the plants that you visit, or the places that you'd like to harvest so that you can pay attention to when they're healthy and when they need support. See which plants are taking up some more space, you know, I mean, depending on what pines you're around, you know, those would have at one time been controlled partially through fire management practices, because they burn more than oaks. So, you know, that's like...I mean, not that we're trying to like, go back to some pristine era, because that's not possible. There's just sort of moving forward from where we're at. But, but it is true that in a lot of places where there were mixed forest in that way, there would be periodic fire for....support hunting, which would have taken out the pine. I mean, I think that personally, preferential treatment of different plant communities and landscapes feels pretty intuitive. And also, if you look back through history, but also if you just look at different cultures that are living in a sort of a tending/stewardship relationship with the plants around them, there is usually preferential management practice, which that's kind of like a boring way to say it, but yes, like favoring the plants you would like to see do better and favoring plants often that are useful to humans, and wildlife. You know, before the American Chestnuts went through, they're blight, they're not extinct, there are still a few left, but before the chestnut blight took out such a large amount of the chestnut trees on the eastern coast that was the dominant tree. And yes, they were taller and larger than most of the trees in the forest, but there was a level of preference for those because they made tons of food every year. And so humans and birds and other animals that like chestnuts, propagated the chestnuts by moving them around, even a squirrel burying a bunch of chestnuts is going to make more chestnuts come up, you know? So I think that that is a pretty natural way to relate to the plants around you, which is to favor some over others, you know. And when you start to pay attention to like, who's just kind of taken over, which can be plants that are actually from here too. And you want....ecosystem's tend to benefit from number of connections and number of members. And so you want to see richness in both of those numbers. You want to see more members and you want to see more connections. So, when you have any one member dominating, you're having less of both. And I think if we can think of tending towards, you know, the word diversity is almost destroyed at this point for usefulness, however, I could say that ecologically, what I mean is like, yes, strengthen members and connections. Margaret 17:57 Okay. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know, I've been really enjoying just like, you know, I have a dog now. So, I have to walk around a lot. And actually, like, pay more attention, because he's always like finding all of the things and making me pay attention to it. I don't know where I'm going with that. There's cactus where I live. And it confuses the hell out of me. Yeah, I live in West Virginia. Janet 18:21 Are they prickly pears? Margaret 18:24 I don't know. They're small. They're like low to the ground. They're like big, round, green lobes kind of like hanging out on the ground. There's not a lot of them. But, it confuses the hell out of me. I have no idea if they're native to this area or not. I don't understand. I don't know why I'm telling you that. Now everyone knows I have cactus. Janet 18:51 Dogs are wonderful for getting us out of the house and out into the world, you know, and then you start to pay attention to who else is around, you know, the dog leads you to the others. Right? Margaret 19:00 Yeah, totally. It's how I know about all the turtles on the property is my dog finds them in and hangs out with them and just sort of stares at them. And then I watch them. Janet 19:07 Are they box turtles? Margaret 19:08 Yeah, there's some kind of. Yeah, I think they're box turtles. They're not, uh, they're not doing so well. I looked them up. There's not a lot of them. But, I live somewhere where there's not a lot of roads. So they don't die as much. Janet 19:22 Right. I love box turtles. I actually wanted to bring up a different similar creature when I was thinking about this topic earlier, which is that I think that, while I can be like, it's all you know, 'we need to turn relationships, we need to be stewarding land,' all of these things, it is worth noting that generally, wildlife and plant communities are under pressure when people get hungry. And you know, I was in Florida near some of the beautiful springs down there a few years ago, and I've also seen these In parts of the Gulf South, but there are these really cool tortoises called gopher tortoises. Have you ever met one of those? Margaret 20:05 No, Janet 20:07 They're kind of big. I just realized I'm using my hands and you're able to see my hands on the podcast. However, they're pretty big turtles.Tortoises. And, they're so cool. One of the things they do is they make these burrows That's why they're called gopher tortoises, but they help a lot of different creatures survive hurricane flooding and other like vast flooding, because other animals will hang out in their burrows. They're like, wombats or something. They're like a helper species that makes habitat for other animals. But, I was reading about them when I was down there and in the Great Depression, the locals down on the Gulf South and in Florida, called them Hoover Chickens. Because they were naming after present President Hoover, who they were blaming for the Great Depression and just got....because they eating so many tortoises to survive, okay, and the tortoise population just like dropped out during that time, and they're slowly getting back, but they have a hard time too, like the box turtles that we live near. And so when I read that I just, it made me really...it made me think about foraging honestly, and how much I had seen this like uptick, with the economic dip, and made me just understand the level to which we need to be emphasizing what's abundant. And what you know...a tortoise....Tortoises are not abundant. They were not abundant even back then, probably. But like, what species are there a lot of? Which species does harvesting actually help the larger plant community? But, also with individual species, there's plants where if you harvest in a specific way that helps propagate them, then you can help increase their numbers as well. And that's going to differ from plant to plant. But, I think that what I would like to see with people getting more and more excited about foraging and wild harvesting of herbs in general, is that actual consciousness about what it is to help their numbers grow so that it's not as much of an extract of relationship? Margaret 22:14 Yeah, no, I remember reading one of the things that like really stuck with me, I read a long time ago, it was about how during the Great Depression, like squirrels and deer were hunted to near extinction in various places. And like.... Janet 22:29 Wow Margaret 22:29 Yeah, exactly. And, you know, these are the things when I think of abundant animals, right, I think of deer and squirrels, at least where I live. And, and so that, that realization that we actually have an impact, you know. Like, the small amounts of destructive things we do really can add up. Obviously, we're living through a, you know, climate level of all of that coming. But no, that's, that's makes me sad about the tortoises. But okay, so So what are some examples then of these? I know I just keeping like, give me more examples, because I like the stories of it. But like, what are some of the plants that you're like helping? I can imagine, for example, like, I mean, obviously, chestnuts are very complicated right now. But, you know, harvesting chestnuts, of course, doesn't necessarily negatively impact the tree. And earlier you were talking about basically being like roots are like much more complicated to extract, or there are like ways of extracting roots that are less bad? Would you mostly say to anyone listening to this unless you know, better just don't mess with roots and work on some other stuff? Janet 23:39 Yeah, you know, and actually, you're reminding me that when I have been seeing a lot of like, more like virally popular foragers, they don't tend to emphasize roots, which I feel grateful for. And yeah, I would say that in general, unless you have a perennial relationship with a plant community than just staying away from roots is a good idea. But with a lot of plants, there are ways to harvest where you're not actually greatly impacting the plant. Let me think of some examples of that. I mean, I almost don't want to bring up ramps because they are so over harvested in some places. Those are wild leeks for people who might not know, but what is true is that if instead of harvesting the bulb, the white bulb, it's kind of like an onion, garlicky thing and each can just take a leaf and harvest leaves from a big patch instead of digging them up that's gonna make a huge difference. Now when you see restaurants start saw offer foragers money for ramps, at least in my neighborhood, I started to see much more like big holes dug where they're just digging up clumps of them at a time and then just taking them wholesale out to sell, you know, and so, I would say like, yeah, the above ground parts are always always gonna be more sustainable to harvest. But also, if you're taking flowers from a plant, for example. I'm trying to think of like a good example of this. I love peach flower medicine, I love peach flower for grief and for hot agitated states and there are feral peach flower trees and, and there's old orchards that are no longer sprayed. And when you're harvesting peach flowers, you can actually support the tree because they need to not let all of those flowers go ripe and become flat fruit because it's too much. So, if you selectively just pick a couple blooms off the into clusters, that's actually going to help the plant overall, you know? Or I'm thinking of, I wanted to give another example of something in a more urban setting. but linden trees are plants, there are some linden trees that are native to this continent, they're called basswood trees, that's the name here. But there's European lindens that are planted ornamentally There's a bunch of them in downtown Asheville. But that's like, where there'll be a huge tree covered with thousands of blossoms and the flowers are the medicine there too. And they're always covered with bees. Bees love them. But, if you see something like that, where you're like, it's impossible to even imagine how many there are, then you can take some flowers, and you're not going to hurt that tree. You know, I guess if we all did that, that would be something we're thinking about. And that's why having a perennial relationship where you see the shifts through the years, see who's getting hit. And, if an area is being over harvested, you can tell because you've been paying attention, that would be something to do. But yeah, I would say like there are a lot of like flowering trees where you can get the flowers or you could even prune some of the branches and have some of what you need. But also with urby plants, the above ground plant, you can kind of see the parts, the aerial parts is what we call them, and notice how much has gone. And usually you can tell if someone else has been there, right. So, that would be what I would say. But again, if you if you're sticking to really weedy abundant plants, then this is going to just be less of an issue like goldenrod, for example, is a gorgeous endemic plant, or a plant that grows on a lot of parts of Turtle Island, which is a really excellent allergy remedy. Not so good for food. But they're incredibly weedy. You'll see a giant field of them right over the place, you know, and so if you just stuck to plants that were pretty weedy and abundant like that, even if you got as much as you're going to need for the year, it would be very little in a dent of even one plant stand. Margaret 27:45 Yeah. Okay, so I took a bunch of notes on what you were saying, because there's so many pieces that I want to pick apart. And one of them is this, I've been running across this thing more, and I suspect you've probably run across a mortgage or rent more in these circles. But this idea that like, the concept of nature is sort of a colonial construct. This idea that like, when we create the idea of nature, we're talking about something that is distinct from humans, and how that's like, kind of this thing that like gets us off the hook. Like when we imagine like humans as only bad. It like lets us off the hook for being bad as compared to like, it seems like you could talk about either you show up and you dig up all the roots of these, you know, ginseng or whatever that's been there forever, and you just like mess everything up, versus they're like other plants that do very well for humans as part of the ecosystem interacting with them in the same way that they do very well for having bees in the ecosystem or birds in the ecosystem. Whatever. Yes. I don't know, it's really interesting to me. And I'm wondering if that's like a conversation that... Janet 28:46 I think that's been a helpful conversation, I think, for people to have around not just having black and white thinking around it, which is what you're gonna get, I think, which is that, if we're actually in relationship, then we're going to be able to care for the plants instead of just taking or just ignoring. I mean, there's definitely, unfortunately, a pretty big segment of people who are into environmental biology who do have a very hands off, 'don't interfere, just leave it,' you know, kind of perspective. Margaret 29:21 The Star Trek approach. Janet 29:23 Definitely, which is I mean, ridiculous given that there are no plants left on the planet who are not being impacted by human activity. So, you actually going in and maybe... So, part of, this is like, kind of an aside from what we're talking about, but there's this concept called assisted migration, which when you're like, "These plants hate how hot it's getting right here. We should move them further north." You know, and so there's all these people who are like, "No, no, we can't interfere. We might ruin everything." You know, it's like time traveling or something like we actually, like do one thing wrong and everything will be, it'll be a clusterfuck. And the whole system will collapse because we move this tree up there. And who knows who else is on there. But then there's a lot of people who there's actually like secret groups who meet to help with assisted migration and to propagate. It's really wild. Anyway, I say all this just to say that, like I'm not on a never interfere with, because I think the interference is happening already. I mean, it's not my life's work to move trees around to places where they might make it. Right. But that is something that, you know, even the research we have about this extinction crisis is just that the loss is huge. And are there places where we could support life becoming, like diversifying and strengthening, plant communities as other trees are coming out? Like right now, where I live? I don't know if this is how you're where it is where you're at or not, but the ash trees are all dying. Margaret 30:56 The ash borer, whatever? Yeah. Janet 30:58 And it's really happening hardcore where we live. So yes, it is true that there will be other trees that are going to come in to those canopy gaps, to live. But we are seeing these forests change dramatically right now. And it's just, it's going to be interesting. Like, there are people who, because the hemlocks are dying out as well from the woolly adelgid along the rivers and streams, and some places around here, there are people who are like, "Well, what are the plants that we could put in here intentionally, that would help shade that would support the trout and support the life in here?" You know, and so those kinds of ecosystem design frameworks make people really uncomfortable because of the level of damage that has happened through the inadvertent introduction of certain species. Margaret 31:48 Right. Well, it's like, if we fucked something up so bad. And 'we' is a weird word to use in this context. But sure, you know, I mean, I'm a settler here and I, you know, reap the rewards of that in terms of like, the foods available to me at the store, whatever, tons of shit. But okay, we fucked this thing up so bad. I can understand people's like, "Oh, no, we fucked it up. We just shouldn't do anything." But, but that's a little bit like, pushing someone over. And then they're like, "Help me up," and you're like, "No, last time I interacted with you, it went really bad. So I'm just gonna walk away." Janet 32:25 No, I mean, exactly. Like, we're gonna just watch the destruction happen that is in the wake of this economic system, and not actually do anything to change it, because we might hurt something. I mean, it's absurd when you actually lay it out that way. Margaret 32:41 Yeah, we set the house on fire. And now we don't want to run in and help people because we just make everything worse, so we should avoid everything. I mean, it's because I think that it makes sense for people to not be like, wildly cavalier about deciding that, you know, they should just get to reengineer the way that ecosystems work. I like, Oh, that's such an interesting tension that I don't have any answers for but... Janet 33:07 Well, I mean, there is a lot of tension with it. I mean, I think a lot of times when I see scientists who are taking a really hard line, 'no interference' stance, they are people who don't study indigenous land management, and don't understand the level to which humans normally play in ecosystem, design and movement, and construction. And so I think that in general, what would be the wisest thing to do for anyone would be you know, what, if you're not indigenous to this place, what are the indigenous folks around you saying about what is wild tending? And what does support and stewardship of this land look like right now? Margaret 33:45 Right. Yeah, though, that makes sense. What is involved in...you know, I'm not indigenous and what would be involved in trying to find that out where I'm at? Do I look for people who are like kind of talking about that publicly? I assume the answer is not just like, go find my friends who are indigenous and be like, "You there..." Janet 34:05 Well, it depends. I mean, it really depends where where people live. I mean, there are in many places around the continent, I'm learning more and more about this, there are actually are cultural centers where you can talk to folks and be like...who are working on land management stuff, right then you know, within whatever tribal sovereignty they have in that situation. Here, this is unceded, Cherokee land, but you know, we are in contact with folks who are doing wild tending and talking about...a lot of the schools there in the Cherokee where the actual reservation is, they are actually trying to introduce more and more wild foods, you know, and so through talking to folks who are part of that project, we've been able to be like, "Okay, like, what, would be helpful for you to have more of?" Also, one thing that I would say in most places, there's some tension between what indigenous groups...what land they have access to and in the Cherokee area, I mean, a specific part that they're still have control over right now, you know, I know a grandmother who was given a $500 citation for picking herbs in the National Forest, for her daughter's memorial, you know, and, at the same time, like they had to have...the Cherokee folks had to push through to try to get a permit to be able to pick this plant called sochan, which is a wild perennial green that people eat in the spring especially. And so through communicating around with those folks, like I've been able to, like learn, like what plants are being prioritized with them, but also like supporting them, you know, like, they had to petition the state for us to be like, "Can we pick herbs on this land?" Right? Yeah. And so actually, like, as annoying as it is supporting that getting the word out, making sure that there's a shit ton of signatures sent to the State Forest, which are just like that this even a question is absurd, right? Especially because there are plenty of settler foragers just going out and foraging with no sort of impact. I mean, they're having an impact, but they don't have to deal with any consequences. So yeah, I guess I would say is like figuring out who's just around you, you know, and usually, and the thing is, is I don't know how the regions are all over the country, but it definitely in the west and southwest and in some parts of the southeast, too, it's not that hard to find cultural centers, or people who are working on land and food sovereignty, where they're at. And so I would just say, I don't know about specifically where you are and that's an interesting question. But, there are cultural centers in a lot of places that will have people working on food, wild food support, and often just like land tending and medicine ways. And I know, in the West, like, we've had a couple of students who actually are doing fire management, intentional fire trainings with with different indigenous tribes out there. And so they're actually learning to do the fire management practices from the people on the ground who had that tradition. And I think that's a fascinating way to learn to and to be like...because that can be somewhat dangerous as you're learning, right?And so like, that feels like a pretty big service to me, to be like, "Could you help do that kind of work somewhere?" And you would learn as you went, what plants are being prioritized, which plants need support, what plants are problems, you know, through through that work as well. Margaret 37:55 Okay. I liked that. I liked that's...I feel like usually that kind of question the like, "Well, what can you do?" doesn't have as good of a concrete answer as that I really appreciate that. One of the things you were talking about earlier, you're talking about, you know, the ramps that are being sold to the restaurants and stuff, right? And I was just thinking about how it seems like when you're talking about foraging, and when you're talking about wildcrafting, obviously, scale matters, but also when money gets involved, it seems like it gets real messy. And like, I wonder how people like, like, is there any ethical wild foods that introduce into market environments? Or is it like pretty much, if you're going to be doing foraging, you should be feeding yourself and your family and maybe your community but not doing it at like market scale? Janet 38:49 Yeah, that's tough. I mean, I don't know. There's definitely some folks around here who do like a wild food, food share even. And then there's people who do wild food...there's like a wild food booth at the farmers market because of this. That's how it is around here. There's just more people with that interest who are willing to pay the big bucks for foraged items. And so I can imagine... Margaret 39:07 Which is just like ironic, but anyway. Janet 39:09 Yeah, if you could see what's on the table at this spot, it's pretty wild. But um, anyway, but so that feels like a scale....it's not that....I'm like, who's actually....like, how much are they actually selling at the farmers market every week? Like, you know, I don't know, it doesn't seem like huge but once we think about like actually scaling up to like, say, like, provide for several stores or something like that, and it does get kind of out of hand. And I know that in some places, like mushroom foraging has gotten pretty wild in a way that can be destructive, but again, that depends on the mushroom. I mean some mushrooms, it actually helps them to have a lot of people in there just sort of disturbing the ground and like spreading the spores around, while some mushrooms when it's not actually the fruiting body like Chaga or something it can be somewhat damaging harvest a lot of it. It really just depends. I think that, if, say like your product was something that was a really, a plant that's causing a lot of trouble in a whole area? Like around here there's there are people who are working really madly on kudzu root production and using kudzu root for for starch and using kudzu root to make paper. They have this kudzu camp every year and like dig a ton of kudzu root and just trying to figure out how many ways they could work with kudzu root. If that was what was entering the market, then that would be fine. Because as you know, having lived in the southeast, there's no shortage of kudzu for people to work with. So, if we were actually making a marketable item out of opportunistic and aggressive plants, then that would be not a bad idea, actually. I mean, yeah, who knows? I'm sure it could get weird. Margaret 40:59 Yeah. Right, because you could eventually enter the nonprofit trap. Like, I'm not anti nonprofits. But at some level, every nonprofit has a financial incentive to continue its problem existing. Janet 41:10 Oh, yes. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So you'd be like, "Oh, God, we've got our kudzu. What are we gonna do?" Margaret 41:15 Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's a good problem for us to run into, right? Janet 41:22 Yeah, definitely. Margaret 41:23 And then, like, I was thinking about one of the other places I've been with the most, like intense invasive things, I think of like, the Himalayan blackberries in the Pacific Northwest, that will just like, take over every field. And, and in some ways, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, great, you know, blackberries." And then I'm like, "Oh, I think if you're just picking the berries, you're actually just propagating." Janet 41:42 Totally, Margaret 41:43 We would need to instead like have the commercial product, 'heart of BlackBerry root' or something, you know? Janet 41:50 It would need to be the root. Probably, yeah. Which is just so wild. If you've ever removed a lot of that stuff, it's so intense. Margaret 41:58 Yeah, I used to do landscaping. And that was, most of what we did is remove Blackberry, BlackBerry root balls or whatever. It's been a long time. Janet 42:08 I think also, since you brought the Northwest up again, I just wanted to say that like part of what I would want to just share here, since we're giving different specific examples is that really, it just matters like place to place even weedy and abundant plants in some places can be a problem if you're harvesting them other places. Like here, stinging nettle is like pretty aggressive. It's abundant. There's a lot of places where you can harvest a huge amount and make barely a dent in the stinging nettle patch. But, I know that there are places in the Northwest where there's actually been a problem. And there are certain butterflies who exclusively lay their eggs, that have caterpillars that feed on nettles, which I don't remember what kind of butterfly this is, and so those butterflies have become endangered because of the foraging craze around Portland specifically, because it's a very small area that they inhabit. So, while I could be like "Nettles, great, just take the top third of the plant. It's a huge patch, it won't matter." Like that doesn't translate to everywhere across the continent, right? So part of what we have to do if we're going to be foraging much for food or medicine is to actually know what are the conditions for the plant where we live? And not just have...I can't give a list of what's safe to harvest everywhere. That's why invasives can feel a little safer. Because generally, if you know something invasive, then you already know that it would be helpful to right take some of them out, but other plants not so much. You know. Margaret 43:41 That's actually one of the things that's really interesting. I think there's a lot of topics that we talked about on the show where you kind of can't learn from this show. You kind of can't learn from this like: "Oh, I follow a forger on Instagram. therefore know all this stuff." I mean, like, I'm sure you can learn a ton of stuff that way. I'm not trying to disparage that, or my own show. But it sounds like local knowledge will always be necessary in a lot of different fields that are the kinds of fields that we like, we as a species need to like learn or we as a culture or whatever, like need to learn in order to survive what's coming anyway are a lot of these skills where we're actually interacting with the places we're at in terms of you know, whether it's like making microclimates that the temperature doesn't change as much or being able to continue to eat food on a regular basis or whatever. as we as we move more local, a lot of the knowledge has to move local. That's really interesting to me. Janet 44:35 Yeah, that's definitely true. And I would also say that it's something that like you have to kind of pay attention to over time, because we have local knowledge as of now, but the climate is shifting so quickly. And a lot of people I know are in zones that have changed already in the past five years. And so, we also need to be paying attention to like who amongst the plants is impacted by this shift to warmer and erratic weather, and who is thriving like that, you know, and so it's also just paying attention to those changes. And and that's something that it really just helps to be an observer over time or to speak to people who've been around for quite a while. And within that, I think it's probably important for us to think of the concept of the shifting baseline from ecology. Which, the shifting baseline means that like...Okay, so my example would be like, when my dad was a kid, my dad's 87. When my dad was a kid, there were so many more kinds of birds, there were so many more animals of all kinds all around like wild animals. There are a lot more specific kinds of like big birds that eat big insects, like Whippoorwills, there are more Bobwhites, there were all these....there were more birds that have now you know, I think the estimation is that there's maybe some people say 30%, some say 50%, less birds than there were 50 years ago. Margaret 45:59 That is so depressing. Janet 46:00 It's incredibly depressing. But when I was growing up, I would not know that if I hadn't read that, or hadn't talked to my dad about how many birds there were, or how many fish there were, or whatever, because I would think like this is how many how much of x there is, you know. And so when you grow up with less, you think less is normal. And we have generation after generation growing up with less and less and less. We have lost an incredible amount of biomass globally. And we don't always know that. So, what I can say like locally living somewhere where there's been like, I don't even know how many herbs schools over the past two decades, there have been so many herbs, schools, and so many foraging schools and places where people....and it just draws and attracts people who are interested in doing that kind of stuff. But also, if you're not already, you will probably will be if you stay here for long enough, I guess. Anyway, the impact on wild plant communities where plant walks happen often, where herbs schools take their students often has been very notable. And it's because, you know, we have like, there's just like, year after a year of alumni, of cohorts of students, of different people who have moved here who have gone and taken classes, and those people continue to visit those spots. Sometimes even if teachers have asked them not to. And they bring their friends, you know, and there's this whole, exponentially more people harvesting plants of certain kinds, there's certain ones that are specifically more exciting than others, probably. And so, just in seeing what's happened since I moved here with some of the more accessible spots with specific plant communities, I'm thinking of pedicularis specifically right now, which Wood Betony is another name for that herb, that's a plant that's very cool and easy to identify, but also has like sort of a relaxing, muscle relaxing feel to it. So people really like it cause it has a little bit like, body relax, feel. And so those patches have just been decimated. And when I see that I'm like, you know, a lot of herb schools, at least in what I was taught traditionally, it was like people would be like, "Go in. And you can have like, you can take about one out of every 10 plants." You know, and that would be like the maxim that we were taught at a certain point, 10%. And, but if everybody comes and takes 10%, what does that even mean? So, that is something that I've seen here specifically is like a cumulative effect of over harvest, over time. And it's increased not just with the people in the field that I'm in, but just with an increase in learning about wild plants and learning what they do. Because people want to take care of their own health or they want to feed themselves, you know, like, I mean, it's not coming from the worst place. It's just that when we're not in relationship and don't know, the baseline of what that patch looked like fifteen years ago, then we don't know that we're in a decimated area, or where we're with plants that are under stress. That's something that you know, from yearly visitation. Margaret 49:07 Okay, and so it seems like then the 'answer,' I hate saying the 'answer,' because I'm sure it's more complicated than anything I could say after that. But like, is this thing that you're talking about, about being in relationship with these plant communities, rather than a quick maxim about like, "Oh, go visit and just it's totally chill to take this stuff," versus like, knowing what's actually happening there and how things are changing. That makes sense. And then as you're saying, with like, a few exceptions, where you're like, "Look, it's fine to take plantain. Fuck it," or whatever. Janet 49:40 Yeah, right. Margaret 49:43 Okay. Yeah, it ties into this thing that I keep thinking back on is like this concept of like, the wild feels infinite, you know? Well, of course, I can't affect the number of...I mean, if you can even look at this, like in a negative sense, right? It's like, :"Oh, I can't affect the number of ticks in my yard." But you actually can. I know the number of ticks in my yard, my yard in particular, feels infinite. How can I possibly have an impact on the number of ticks? And there are ways that I could impact that number of ticks and like, so like, if I had guinea hens or whatever, and they ate a bunch of ticks, you could actually create a notable difference, even though it seems like you're digging from this infinite pool of ticks. This is a very gross metaphor. And so that makes sense that yeah, either these things that feel abundant, and as long as you take 10%, but you're not thinking about how everyone does it. I mean, the whole baseline shift thing, I like...nothing is more depressing to me than thinking about the lack of biodiversity as compared to a hundred, years ago, even. Janet 50:49 It's so wild. Margaret 50:51 Yeah. Which leads me to the sort of conclusion of like, I think I have a difference in opinion than a lot of my friends and a lot of my community, like, I have more of this, like, "Great, we all need to start growing food inside," like, this very, like opposite method of solving it, or rather, specifically, because I think a lot of people are like, "Oh, well, we'll all go forage," right? You know, as this like, "Ah, well, nature will provide for us," and it's kind of like, well, nature did provide for us, and then our culture, our settler culture, like fucked that up real bad. But, I like this thing that you're talking about, about like, one of the main ways to solve that, on a small scale, at least is to grow into community with the place that you're harvesting from, to not be extractive. Janet 51:42 I think that there has to be kind of a mix too. I mean, I agree with you, like, I encourage people to grow their own medicine and to grow their own food as much as they can. But, also, I can say that like as a...I'm a clinician, like, you know, I have a clinical practice with herbs. And once you actually see the volume of plant material it takes to keep even a few people on a formula, or on a tea, it's really wild. Like if I was not using some grown plants with also some weedy plants that I can just harvest, like, I don't know what I would do. And that's just me. Like, if we were all doing what I'm doing, then the amount of plant material would be pretty enormous. I mean, I think about how, you know, in China, it's amazing, they have still pretty intact herbal medicine tradition that's part of their medical system. I mean, it got homogenized after Mao, for sure, and changed, although they're still people who practice pre Maoist Chinese medicine, but they have an enormous amount of land given to a monoculture of growing herbs for that industry. And so, you know, when I have folks be like, "Well, we should just grow our own plants," I'm like, "Well, when we're actually, if you were actually talking about the scale of supporting a lot of people's health, that is a lot of land." And and for feeding, it's going to be even more or land, because the caloric intake we would all require is more than that, that we need with herbs, right? So,how much land are we talking? You know? Margaret 53:15 No, that that makes a lot of sense. One of the things you brought up at the beginning, that you said you wanted to return to and we're coming near the end, you were talking about how like more and more you're seeing maybe students coming to your school, because they're interested in herbalism. And they're interested in forging and wildcrafting out of economic necessity. Basically. Like, you know, I think about, you're talking about, like, your wildcrafted table at the farmers market where everything is like wildly expensive. No pun intended. And, you know, versus like, kind of the whole point of foraging is that it's free. Right? And I wonder if you want to talk more about that, about like...because I do think that there is even if I'm like, obviously there's a million problems with foraging, it does seem like it still could have a way to be useful to help people on an economic level as like food prices go through the roof and wages stagnate or disappear. And all that. Janet 54:11 I do, I do think it has a place. And I will say that like you know, just for the record in case my students are listening to that, there's always a fair number of people who have come in like staunchly anti wildcrafting as well. So there's definitely a pretty good mix. But, I but I've been noticing more and more every year there are more people that are like, "I think this is a survival skill," with the economic downturn that's happening, which is what you're referring to. And so I do think that wild foods that are abundant and weedy can be a really helpful supplement to other food. For sure. I think that actually trying to live off of it is challenging. That's something people will learn. But, you know, it is true that there's some things we get with wild foods that we do not get from the domesticated food that we eat normally and I should just point out that I think that unless people can afford to eat organic foods, especially if it's organic food with restorative agricultural practices, which is not a lot of organic food, we're usually eating food if it comes from the grocery store, and in some cases, even the farmers market that is coming from extremely depleted soil, because the pressures of capitalism, of the market require people just to like, not ever let the land be fallow. They just have to continue to pump the land and extract that food from it in ways even though they're growing the food. And so most of the food that we eat is pretty nutrient deficient, compared to what it would be in a more restorative agricultural system. Now wild food, if it's not in a place that's very polluted, that's a whole other topic that we should probably mention, is going to be growing out of a place that's not just having like a cycling of harvest over and over again. And so they tend to be more nutrient dense. So, if you could pick nettles in a place that doesn't have a lot of toxins in the soil, it's going to, they're going to be nettles, that actually have a lot more mineral content than the greens you get at the grocery store. The same is true for dandelion greens. So, while you might not be able to really like, bulk up your diet with a ton of calories from the wild, although you could, it just honestly takes a lot of time and energy that not everyone has. You will, even by supplementing a little bit with dandelion greens or other wild greens, you are going to actually get more of a nutritional impact. You'll get more minerals. You get this bitter flavor that's been mostly bred out in the domesticated greens and lettuces. There's not bitter any more. Bitterness actually has a purpose, which is that it helps the liver function, it helps with digestion. So, I do think that if people supplemented their diets with some wild food, it would be beneficial in more than just those calories and in more than just the money saved, because we are eating from such a depleted food system. So, this is all to say that as our budgets are being impacted by the level of inflation and how much food cost, which is just going to get worse is what it looks like, it's also just true that we're we're buying food that doesn't have as much nutrition as it should. You know? And so, you're getting more than just like that handful of greens on your salad, you're getting actually like pretty dense nutritional food. Margaret 57:35 That makes sense to me. At the beginning of the pandemic, I basically like lived off of my prepper stash, supplemented by wild greens for like, a month or so, which I wouldn't like immediately recommend anyone has like fun and joyous. But, I was really, really grateful, like none of my calories came from the wild greens, but the sense that I'm actually like taking care of my body came from the wild greens. Janet 57:59 Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And that does change things. You know, I mean, I think that's what I would say, is I'm not sure how much it'll like reduce cost hugely at this point to be adding in a lot of other food, but that improvement in your health is going to be noticeable. Margaret 58:22 Okay, well, we're coming up on an hour. I'm wondering if there's anything in particular that we missed that you wish we had talked about or like? Janet 58:33 Oh, I do have Yeah, I do have one thing to talk about. So, this may also makes sense to you, having lived around here at some point, and it's that I was going to recommend that people read this essay by Robin Wall Kimmerer that's called "The Honorable Harvest" and I can send you a link to that because there's PDFs of that online, but she admits I was....Yeah, I was reviewing it today and she reminded me of something and it's that so, for a while, this is getting to be less the case, but for a while, within different herbs circles and foraging circles that I was adjacent to there was a sort of a nod towards respectful relationships with the plants you might be harvesting and Robin Wall Kimmerer says in her piece, like you know, "Always ask permission from the plant." But, there's something that I was seeing like pretty commonly in settler foragers and herbalist, which would be like just like a really quick like, "Is this okay?" to the plant and then they're like, "They said, "Yes,"" and then they would just go ahead and harvest very quickly, you know, and like, just like I swear, like immediate, like plants they'd never hung out with before like, this happened in front of me, like I mean, you know. And so, I had always been like kind of turned off by the exchange, well it wasn't really an exchange, but like by that whatever gesture, gesture towards pretending to have communication. Which it doesn't mean there's not communication but, there was this really awesome way that Robin Wall Kimmerer talked about it where she's just like, "You have to use both parts of your brain for that conversation. You're not just using the talking and listening, you have to also use the part of your brain that's assessing that circumstances, assessing the health of the plant, attention over time. It's not just about intuition and communication with the plant world. It's also actually about empirical understanding and paying attention," you know. And so to me, and what I've seen in my life is that like, I'm like, I sometimes know, it's not even appropriate to ask. I'm just like, "This standard is not doing okay. I'm not going to harvest plants here right now," you know. And so, the idea that all that we need is like a really brief exchange of like, "Is this cool? Cool. Got it," you know and move in. It's like, that's still very extractive. But, it makes you feel like you did something. Margaret 1:00:52 I mean, there's a really obvious comparison here to like the way that consent culture and sex is like not handled incredibly well. Janet 1:01:00 Sure. Margaret 1:01:00 Yeah, where people are like, "Whatever. I asked," versus like, "I should try and figure out how everyone actually feels." Janet 1:01:07 Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So just to say that, like, it's more than asking, like asking, and listening,. Listening means actually listening over time. It's not an instant gratification listen, you know? Yeah, that's my last note, which would just be like to actually learn to listen and pay attention and observe and not...Unlearning extractive tendencies. And unlearning the entitlement that we all carry, live and breathe in settler colonial capitalism is a lot of work. And it requires patience and time. But also, I will say that if you see someone else behaving in a way that you're not that into, you know, understanding that probably yelling at them is not gonna make them change their mind or behavior very quickly. So, also to have patience with other people who were on different learning edges here with this, you know? Margaret 1:02:05 Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. Well, where can people...do you want people to find you? Janet 1:02:16 Yes, I have. So, I have a blog that's called Radical Vitalism with my partner, Dave. And our school is Terra Sylva School, which we run with Jen Stovall. I can put that stuff in, I'll send it to you to put in the show notes. And then we also have a podcast called The Book on Fire. And we're about to start our third season. And we're going to actually talk about the "Dawn of Everything." So, that should relate... Margaret 1:02:41 Oh, I love that book. Janet 1:02:42 Yeah, so good. So good. So, it relates to kind of some of what we're talking about at least. Margaret 1:02:46 Cool. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much. And I'm sure have you on again, at some point. Janet 1:02:54 Yeah. Thanks a lot. Margaret 1:02:55 Thank you so much for listening. if you enjoyed this podcast....Well, first of all, if you enjoyed hearing from Janet, I highly recommend that you check out the earlier episode with Janet and Dave about herbalism and herbalism for emergency medical needs and all of that. They have a lot to say. And if you enjoyed this episode, and you enjoy this podcast in general, please consider supporting us by telling people about the podcast and telling the internet about the podcast and telling algorithms about the podcast by rating, and reviewing, and subscribing, and all of that stuff that has a larger impact than one might expect. Much like killing ticks in your yard, you can also support us financially. This podcast pays its audio editor and the transcriptionist. And we're very proud to be able to do that work. And we are supported in that work by the people who support Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness on Patreon, the publisher that publishes us. That's what makes it a publisher. It's called Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness. We have another podcast called Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness that you can check out, that comes out every month and has different fiction, and memoir, and poetry, and essays, and all kinds of fun stuff that comes out once a month. And if you support us on Patreon, you'll get a zine in the mail every month. Well, if you support us at $10 or more on Patreon, you get a zine in the mail every month. And in particular, I would like to thank Aly and Paparouna and Milica, Boise Mutual Aid, Theo, Hunter, Sean, S.J., Paige, Mikki, Nicole, David, Dana, Chelsea, Kat J., Staro. Jenipher, Eleanor, Kirk, Sam, Chris, Michaiah, and Hoss the dog. You all make it possible, make the dream work. You're the team work...anyway, I will talk to you all soon and I hope you're doing as well as you can. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co

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A man writes in about a fantasy about a special cut from a barber. A woman gets highly turned on while getting a tattoo. A letter of how I met my lover? If you have any erotic fantasies you want to share or even if it is to say hello please feel free to send them to Nikky@dearnikky.com or anonymously DearNikky.com/confessionsBy submitting a confession and/or question you certify the following stipulations to be true: You are the sole creator of the submission; You are 18 years of age or older and legally able to write, submit erotic or pornographic material Stories including Bestiality, Incest and Incest Fantasies, Underage Role-Play, Rape Sex, Rape Fantasies or other non-consensual content or Racial slurs will not be aired. We reserve the right to change names or other identifiable information. I am releasing all rights to this creation Dear Nikky: Sex Confessions From People Just Like You is out now!! You can find me also a Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Smuttyfy. If you liked the show leave a positive review on any platform you listen to the show on. Krazy Summer Nights June 9th-11th & August 4th-6th You can send me confessions directly to my P.O. Box. 1750 Jefferson St. #104674 Jefferson City, MO 65109 --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/dearnikky/message

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Tony has suffered with severe depression for the past 4 weeks, so he felt it was time for some light hearted comedy. Today he will share his fictional tale about a really bad day.  It's titled “Fuck My Life”Tony's favorite pastime is writing and over the years his favorite topic was comedy. He often would send the criminals copies of his writings.Manfried especially loved Tony's stories. Tony shared Fuck My Life with him back in September of 2008. You will hear a short conversation clip with Manfred's reaction to the story. Tony talks about the next episode that will be posted on Monday March 27th. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children will be joining the hunt for “The Cabin”. 

In honor of Women's History Month we wanted to put together an episode that allows women to feel liberated in their quest to free the breasts. Fuck That Bra is here to allow you the freedom of choice.RealAssAffirmations by #ChisaPennixBrownDonate & Suppor the Podcast at www.buymeacoffee.com/raaffirmations

Sharai and Trent are both confused after covering Titane. Please send help. Our art was created by Jed Martin. Check out his work at jedmartincreative.com. Music Credits: Composed/Produced by LaRob K. Rafael LaRob K. Rafael, piano/vocals, Jackson Kidder, bass, and Tiana Sorenson, vocals. Follow all of our social media at https://allmylinks.com/anightmareonfiercestreet Subscribe to our Patreon for exclusive content and merchandise at https://www.patreon.com/anightmarefierceonfiercestreet --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/fierce-street/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/fierce-street/support

Mike and Zoja are back after 2 weeks off. Mike is wrestling with being a “hi” guy and Zoja doesn't care. Get your Welcome To Our Podcast Shirts: https://quietneighbor.net/collections/welcome-to-our-podcast For all things Mike Falzone go to: https://mikefalzone.com/ For Prints Of Mikes Photos: https://mikefaltography.pixieset.com/ Mike In The Morning Coffee, Mugs And Note Books: https://store.dftba.com/collections/mike-falzone The Podcast Podcast Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-podcast-podcast-podcast/id1650169543 https://open.spotify.com/show/4DoQneTUpul2sIpnq7Ji4z?si=46becc3eea194489&nd=1

You know what it is! A few of the Recs on here are some of the first records I ever owned 23 years ago. Its funny to me that are parents listen to Rolling Stones and Marvin Gay for their oldies. Where I will listen to Ragga Jungle anthems for my oldies.  Every time I play these records I feel a deep feeling of joy, nastalgia, and Metal as Fuck!Big Up all the old school Jungliest. You are all a bunch of Geezers! Stay Tuned, DJ Panther  Support the show

While celebrating graduating from college, a group of friends go camping and are being killed off by a creature. Don't Fuck in the Woods is a movie that plays off the horror movie trope that if you have sex in a horror movie, you are going to die. It appears the creature feeds off this idea and it's the central theme around this movie. Watch the movie and catch our review.Join the Discord https://discord.gg/nFSnEE9wG2Subscribe to our YouTube channel The Final Podcast - YouTubeFollow us on Facebook The Final Podcast | FacebookFollow us on Instagram The Final Podcast (@thefinalpodcast) • Instagram photos and videosFollow us on Twitter The Final Podcast (@thefinalpodever) / TwitterMusic Credit: Karl Casey @ White Bat Audiohttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_6hQy4elsyHhCOskZo0U5g

RSVP for my live workshop → Creating a Joyful As Fuck Dating Life-- Tuesday, March 28th @ 6pm EST If you want to join us inside The Brazen Breakthrough, learn more + join us here.  Doors close on March 31st. 

Hey besties we got a BOGO! Two episodes recapped for the price of one! What a deal! And here to assist Jenna in this Hometowns Women Yell All crossover event of the century is friend and fellow Roses For Every Body campaign member, Jenny! Together we wax poetically about the days when the leads didn't have to tell on themselves as much, break bread with the families, lace our shoes up because they fit, undergo some needed DEI training, and accidentally stan both episodes more than our bitter, pessimistic hearts expected. Thank you so much to Jenny and make sure you're following her @jennysport Follow us on insta @datecardpod @jennawithasmile @drunkfeminist Producer: Andrew Olsen @andr0ne Art: Mikaela @mikaelajane Jane mikaela-jane.com Music: Jed Overly @jeddyboyjames https://www.flowcode.com/page/jeddyjames Proud podcast of So Below Media

Subscriber-only episodeSubscribe to XXX to hear this episode and to receive a list of intimate products, sex toys, and more WITH special discount codes that will help you get the perfect fit every time!One of Locker Room Talk & Shots Podcast's most popular episodes ever is Monster Cocks: The Truth About Dick Size.  It gets listened to again and again and I have received tons of questions, comments, and dick pics from cock owners dying for feedback.  As a result, I've spent way too much of my time pondering dick size and whether it actually does matter. Look, I have my opinions, but I have a lot of valuable info, facts, tips, tricks, and more that will help people with dicks that are too big and too small, use what they got juuuuuuust right. From the insider scoop to sexy moves, tactics, and toys that will have you both feeling more than adequate, this XXX episode delivers the goods!Cheers!Fun Factory Sex Toy Partners & Discount Codes Fun Factory: Shop Funfactory.com and get a discount when you use code SELS20 at checkoutVelvet Co. Get 20% off when you shop build your own thrusters, vibrating steel toys, and more at TheThruster.com and use code Explores20 Subscribe to Locker Room Talk & Shots Triple X (XXX) $5/MonthNever heard before episodes. Stories and interviews too hot for mainstream listening.Every ThursdaySubscribe here: https://lockerroomtalkandshotspodcast.buzzsprout.com/Or here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1692988/supporters/newSupport the showSubscribe to Locker Room Talk & Shots Podcast Triple X For premium content that includes conversations and personal stories that are just too hot to share in our main content! New episodes are published every Thursday. Only $5. Subscribe here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1692988/supporters/new Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@annettebenedetti Connect with usWe are on all the socials: TikTok: @ LockerRoomTalkPodcast LRT's Insta: @Lockerroomtalkandshots Annette's Insta: @BeingBenedetti SEL Inst: @SheExplores_Life LRT's FB: @LockerRoomTalkandShots SEL FB: @ SheExploresLife Annette's YouTube: Annette Benedetti Check Out More Sexy Content:She Explores Life W...

Echo and Falcon return to give us an update and share their stories of their lifestyle journey.  First, they head down to Jamaica and sneak over to Hedo, and when in Rome, do as the nudist do!  Being naked on the beach got them excited to frolic in the ocean and they end up fucking in front of a raft full of onlookers.  Then, when they head back to their vanilla couples resort they share their Feather fantasy with a large group of couples.  When they get back to the club, they start working on closing the deal and getting into the bedroom with couples at the club as quick as possible.  All of this leads to Echo's confidence growing quickly.  Please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.You can catch us on SLSRadio every Wednesday at 4pm Eastern Time.You can find tons of amazing lifestyle show on FullSwapRadio, including our show, Every Wednesday at 6:30pm and Midnight Eastern Time. We are now hosts on the Swinger Society Discord Server as well.If you have your own sexy stories, please call our hotline and share them with us and our audience. 844-4-Hump-DayIf you have any questions for us, please email us at humpdayquickies@gmail.comVisit our website as well.  HumpDayQuickies.comPlease follow us on all the social platforms:Twitter - HumpDayQuickiesInstagram - HumpDayQuickiesFaceBook - HumpDayQuickiesTikTok - HumpDayQuickiesWe are adding new content as quickly as we can!

OUR HOSTS: Corinne Foxx - @corinnefoxxNatalie McMillan - @nataliemcm and @shopnataliemcmillan What we're drinking: Harmless Harvest Watermelon Flavored Coconut Water TOPIC: Nearly one in every three Americans have faced some kind of identity theft attempt in their lives, but the topic doesn't get a lot of air time. In this episode, we dive into the different types of identity theft, what to do if you've had it happen to you, and how to protect your personal information. We highlight who's most vulnerable to identity theft and why, and we also talk about the common ways that thieves can obtain sensitive data. In this episode, we discuss:The typical outcomes of identity theftWarning signs to look out for if you feel like your information has been compromisedWhy medical identity theft is particularly dangerousHow to protect children and seniors from identity theft Why we love password managers The simplest way to restrict access to your records so new credit lines can't be opened The first step to take if your identity has been stolenRESOURCES: identitytheft.gov END OF THE SHOW: Corinne and Natalie introduce Hottie of the Week: Melissa McCarthyDRINK RATING:Harmless Harvest Watermelon Flavored Coconut Water = 8 / Melissa WRAP UP:To wrap up the episode, we play Fuck, Marry, Kill. Nat puts a musical spin on the game and gives Corinne the choice between Channel Orange by Frank Ocean, Red by Taylor Swift, and Scorpion by Drake. Corinne goes the animated character route and gets Natalie to rank SpongeBob SquarePants, Bugs Bunny, and Homer Simpson. We have a newsletter for our Am I community. You can sign up for the newsletter on our website: amidoingthisrightpod.comYou can email us for episode ideas or Solicited Advice: amidoingthisrightpod@gmail.comFollow us on Instagram: @amidoingthisrightpod Don't forget to rate and review the podcast! It really helps us grow!

Follow on IG @BLKTeathePodcast / @justice0ndemand Follow on Twitter @Justice0ndemand If you have questions or comments email us at blkteathepodcast@icloud.com --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/blkteathepodcast/message

INTRODUCTION: This marks the first episode of me speaking candidly about my recent breakup with my partner of half a decade. This was messy but it is the reality that I am currently living in and trying my best to overcome. All I can say is that you are not alone if you have been damaged by any type of narcissist. Let us ban together, heal and move forward. HEALTHLINE:  https://www.healthline.com/health/covert-narcissist  INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): ·      A Look Into Covert Narcissism·      Sex Addiction·      It's Easier To Tell The Truth·      Woman's Intuition·      43 Sexts Sent In 30 Minutes From My Ex To His Hoe·      Truth Mixed With Lies·      Broken Vows·      A Grindr Warning: Variable Ratio Reinforcement ·      There Are Too Many Options·      Options Are The Illusion Of Freedom   CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comWebsite: https://www.DownUnderApparel.comTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sexdrugsandjesusYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook:   https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonPinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/Email: DeVannon@SDJPodcast.com   DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)o  https://overviewbible.como  https://www.youtube.com/c/OverviewBible ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com  ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS ·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org ·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg  INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: Covert Narcissism Breakup Part 1[00:00:00]De'Vannon: on December 24th. In the year 2022, I discovered text messages in my then boyfriend's phone. My boyfriend's of almost half a decade where he hadn't gone out in, had an affair back in October of 2022. A few days later, I discovered, well, within the text, within his phone, I found a few days after he had the first affair.He tried to go and have a second affair. It was about 1:00 AM. I can tell you it was not cute.Now, for those of you who followed the show and have been listening, you may have noticed fluctuations in my energy over the shows that have been released over the last two [00:01:00] months. That's because I've been really, really trying to process this and deal with it. It has not been cute. In February, almost sent myself to the hospital due to the way that I was self-harming myself.I, I found that it wasn't so easy for me to listen to a lot of the advice that I give to people. However, this breakup here is something that I've never been through before. This is my first official serious breakup, and this is the longest relationship that I've ever had. And so I'm not whining, I'm not complaining.I'm thankful for the experience and the lessons that this has taught me. I'm just letting you know. What's been going on. And at first I had said I wasn't going to, you know, do a show or go online and talk about this, but the further I get away from him and the more I reflect over what's happened, and I've talked to friends and different people who have dealt with the narcissistic people, and it's just, it's just absolutely [00:02:00] outrageous and it's just too much.And it seems like the more I write about this and the more I talk about it, it's like I'm taking that trauma that has been very, very deep rooted inside of me and lifting it up all out of me. And it's like when I put it down on paper or when I speak about it, it's like I'm letting that much more of it go.It's like I'm letting that much more of it go permanently. I'm not about to be,you know, a year from now, still hung up on this. I'm not about to be. still traumatized. It's time to let this go and move forward. And while I'm moving forward, I'm gonna see whatever I can do to help those of you move forward who are also healing from having been in a relationship or impacted in some type of way by narcissist.Now, whatever [00:03:00] I say in this episode or in episodes to come, you know, or my, my opinion and my research, I'm not a medical doctor. I didn't have no training in this, but I don't need a doctor to tell me what I already know and what I've lived through. I'm gonna be reading the definition for, for a Narcissist Soon from a Healthline article that I will put in the show notes for those of you who want to do some research on your own.Michelle, being in a relationship with these people can make you feel crazy. You're not crazy. They are crazy. And what they're trying to do is project their, their, their psychosis onto you and break you down. But baby, I'm here to build you back up today because we gonna have to come up higher than this.Soin the spirit of Taylor Swift, let the shade [00:04:00] begin. Honey, my name is Devan and Hubert. I'm the host of the Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. And thank you for joining me today in Second Timothy in the in the Bible verse three through nine, it says this also no, that in the last days, perilous time shall come for men, shall be lovers of them.For men shall be lovers of their own. Coves. Boasters, proud blasphemers, disobedient. The parents unthankful and holy without natural affection. Truce breakers, false accusers in incontinent, fierce despisers of those who are good. Traitors. Heady, high-minded lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof from such.Turn away for this sort are they wish creep into houses and lead captive silly women laden with [00:05:00] sins, led away with divers, lust, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now, as Jonas and Johns withstood, Moses, so do these also resist the truth. Men of corrupted minds, rerate concerning the faith, but they shall proceed.No further for their father shall be manifest unto all men as theirs also was. from within this passage here. This is what stood out concerning my ex. You know, you know, lovers of themselves, you know, with, within narcissistic people, that's a signature trade. Narcissism is esp, apparently broken down in the covert narcissism, and overt narcissism is like a whole thing.And I intend to do a whole different show on that or include some of the information in the book that I'm gonna write because, you know, I gotta write a book about this baby. And so [00:06:00] it, it, it is a very self selfish way to live. You know, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. . You know, I, I asked my partner years ago if he thought he had a sex addiction or anything like that, and he was like, Nope, not me.It's those other people on Grindr. There's nothing wrong with me. When we went to couples counseling for the first time, we went twice, and by the time this all blew up, we both had hypnotherapist individually. We both were seeing the couple's counselor, you know, I have also a licensed clinical social worker that I see.We were in front of a lot of different therapists, but the first time we went to the couple's counselor, what they do, and we went over there in Louisiana State University in their grad school program. It was like super cheap to go, like maybe 15 bucks a week or something like that. [00:07:00] So for those of you who need mental health treatment, check your local, you know, colleges and universities.They might have a, like a, like a, you know, like a, a special program like that. , you can get in on the cheap. The first thing they do over there, and I thought this was super thorough and very unusual, was they take both members of the couples or every, many people and they put them in separate rooms and they give them separate counseling for many weeks, months, or whatever it takes because to sort through each individual person's issues before you bring the, the, the couple together in the room.I took like, I dunno how many weeks to go through it all. Cause they, they, what they asked you is tell us all the trauma, anything you think bad is happening to you from the time you were born up till now. I know I took my good sweet time. I'm in there crying about like my grandmother's death and stuff and I thought I was over, you know, et cetera, et cetera.My ex child, , [00:08:00] he did like one whole session, told them people, was there, nothing wrong with him. And then that was that. I thought that was strange. I did not have the knowledge that I know now. If I ever meet somebody who looks me in the eye and be like, I don't have any problems. I'm going turn and runOkay. Like the road runner trying to get away from Wild E Coyote or no? Mm-hmm. . I didn't un, I did not know what a serious like red flag that that was.Let me see. Verse seven says, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Like I mentioned, we had so, so much therapy over the years. There's so much in, in, in home Bible studies, in in education, you know, that I was trying to, to, to, to, to guide us through is like no matter what information I put in front of this child, you know, this boy, he never [00:09:00] evolved.He never grew. It is like, When we would sit in front of the co the couple's counselors, they would echo this and be like, and for the purposes of this broadcast, we'll refer to my ex as Ethan. And you know, they'd be, they'd be telling Ethan you know, doesn't seem like you're really getting too much out of this.You know, he would just sit there in counseling, be quiet, not say too much. And the little he did say was some sort of defensive foolishness, you know, that that really wasn't productive or anything. I thought some of this was like immaturity. I hoped he would like grow out of it. I was like 36 when I met him, and I think he was like 21.I don't, you know, age does not, does not mean anything to me. I had, you know, issues trying to date people my age trying to date men my age because the men my age, I mean like clockwork. Every date that I would go out on, all they wanted to do was sit there and talk about their ex. . [00:10:00] I'm like, well, why don't you go back to him then we here now.But literally, this happened so much so the people my age came with all this baggage. I thought to myself, now it's like, self, why don't we, you know, go down here and find someone younger. They, they probably won't have an ex to sit there and talk about. In this case, it was true. Ethan didn't have an ex to talk about what, well, our problems begin because he had like a litany of fuck boys, you know, you know, no exes, but a thousand people he slept with in, in, in an, in inability to disentangle himself from, from his oversexualized nature where you live and learn, bitch, you live and learn,but you know, You know, the warning I want to give the narcissist out [00:11:00] there is like how in verse nine, here it says, but, but you know, but, but you shall proceed no further, but your father shall be made manifests unto all men. As these people who had the nerve to, to, to withstand Moses, was. Now look, everything that's done in the dark is gonna come to the light.There is no hiding anything from God. And whether you believe in God or not does not change the fact that he has power over all things. And the error of a narcissist is to put themselves in the place of God. They wanna manipulate and lie, control the narrative, rearrange things. But you see, you can't worship God in yourself at the same time.And I guarantee you, you going to lose because God has power over these things because God has power over all things and is a terrible and dangerous thing to fall into the hands of of the Lord.[00:12:00]Now from that Healthline article that I had mentioned,It says A, A covert narcissist has a narcissistic personality disorder, also known as N P D, but does not display a sense of of self importance. Often associated with the condition. They may deal with insecurity and low self-esteem. These people might seem self-centered or so focused on their own importance that they've lost touch with reality, or maybe they don't appear to care about others and rely on manipulation to get what they want.Some of the traits are shyness and introversion, self-consciousness, insecurity, defensiveness, sensitivity to what others think of them. Bitch. If I had read these traits when I first met my ex-boyfriend, I would not have stayed with him as long [00:13:00] as I did. However, at the same time in my head, I was considering that I did not want to be found to be a hypocrite before God because those of you who follow the show in read my books and writings and things like that and heard me on other people's shows, that I'm very grateful to have had the opportunity to go on.You know, you know that I've been through, you know, a lot of like, a lot of self-inflicted things that I did to myself, you know, from being homeless and getting hepatitis and H I v and you know, all the felonies and being in and outta jail. It took a long time and a lot of people. They helped to bring me back to life.I didn't think that it would be befitting for me to leave at the first, second, third, fourth, fifth sign of trouble. You know, I received a lot of mercy. I received a lot of grace, you know, and as the Lord tell us freely, you have received, freely give. Maybe I ticket it too far. Maybe, you know, it's certainly I'll let myself be taken advantage of.But you know, that's okay [00:14:00] when, when the time truly came to stop, you know, the time truly came to stop and you know, everybody's gonna look at this and go, you know, damn, I wouldn't have stayed with him that long. You probably wouldn't have. But I've perceived extreme amounts of grace in this life and it falls to me to give other people extreme amounts of grace more than enough space and time to get it right.The beautiful thing, you know, in January, as I was struggling with this, I mean, I was. And I was fasting in January. I didn't have any alcohol, no mind altering substance or anything. Not because it's sober January, but because I was seeking a special thing from the Lord. And you know, when you really, really want something deep from God, you gotta get quiet before him and you know, and deny yourself things that you would ordinarily have until that sacrifice to see if you can get God to move.I had already set my heart to do this before [00:15:00] I found out about this, you know, about Ethan on you know, almost at, you know, at New Year. And I was so like disoriented. I don't it, I don't think it was because of the fasting. It's not like I was fasting all day. It was just the emotional mind fuck of having found this out.I was like, I was walking around my house, walking into the walls and shit. I'm missing appointments. You know, get my interviews, my podcast interviews, all crisscrossing, screwed up. You know, disorganized, can't sleep, not eating right. You know, it's like I didn't recognize who I was and over what some, some shit a human than, than to mechild. We, you know, I thought I, I would've thought that I would've been stronger than that. You know, I would've thought that I would've had more, you [00:16:00] know, you know, infrastructure, internal strength built up within me than that. I didn't realize that being this close to a person, you know, and they devastate you can throw you off like this.But we've been throwing off, but we can get back on track. I'm thankful to be talking to you today with more life coming back into my voice. I was deflated for a minute, but you know, Yeah, boys, I'm coming back to life now. I'm coming back to life. Now.The fucked up part about this is that Ethan already knew about like, my history with like my dad's cheating. Cuz you know, my dad had a couple of affairs on my mom, one of which, when he, when she was pregnant with me. Yeah. So that's how I came into the world. And I'm not complaining, it just was what it was.He already knew about the guy from when I was in high school when I was 15 and the other guy was 22. I mean, trying to give [00:17:00] me AIDS and things like that, you know, I thought I was dating him or whatever. I know I was 15 child first man the, show me any serious attention. I, you know, I thought I was doing something.Though, he also, this dude in my book, I call him Nico in my sex drugs in Jesus book. I call him Nico. Well, he had this whole like fiance, you know, , you know, living in another state the whole time, who just suddenly moved to Louisiana and showed up at church one day. I, you know, I like, okay, where did, where did this person come into the picture?It's like, I get, humans are going to do like, fucked up shit. We all do. I've done fucked up shit. I'm not trying to paint myself out to have had been perfect here. You know, Ethan stood by me with my drug addiction. You know, going out there and sleeping around and stuff like that. I am not perfect, but what I always did with [00:18:00] these three men didn't do Ethan, my dad and Nico is come back and tell the truth so that everybody affected, can make decisions.Okay? I think that that's about all you can ask from many human, cuz you're not gonna get perfection out of anybody. You know, just come back to the table and tell the truth. No matter what I went out and did, I always came back and told him that he can decide if he wants to stay, go. We're gonna go to counseling, you know, whatever.I expected that in return, you know what you've done is what you've done. But how in the hell can you look in somebody's face from one day to the next, lay down in them and lay down with them in bed at night in the case of cheating, potentially expose them to STDs and things like that, and not give them a say in it with no conscious, no remorse.You can go cheat, fuck whoever, tell nobody and then lay down and [00:19:00] sleep and see sweet dreams as though you've done nothing wrong. I look, I look at my ex like he's a devoid of a soul, devoid of humanity, you know? Who the fuck does shit like this? Let's get more into it. Like I said, for the purpose of this pro broadcast, my ex's name will be referred to as Ethan.There's gonna be three fuck boys of his that we mentioned. And like I said, he has many, he has many, I couldn't even get, it was so hard to enjoy the fucking relationship with him. Everywhere we go, he's like, I fucking, everything that moves through the room, constantly getting messages from social media, not even like Grindr and Jack, just like social media, you know, people trying to, to have to fuck him again, who he's fucked before.You know, and then, I mean, grinder and Jack couldn't even much, [00:20:00] barely got on dates with him trying to be on there, trying to see who he could fucking ex, you know? And I, you know, I didn't realize what, like a serious problem this was, but I was trying not to judge. Cause I was like, you know what, when I was in my twenties, I was the same way.But when I was in my twenties, I did not have a serious boyfriend. You know, because as soon as I met, met a guy who, who gave me a little bit of attention, I stopped, you know, any kind of like being on apps or anything like that, because I'm the type to be too clingy too fast. You know? I would let stop talking to all the other boys, you know, just for one.And although my ex claimed that he wanted like a serious relationship, he didn't act like he wanted a serious relationship. That's another thing about these narcissistic, manipulative people. They say one thing, , but then their actions in the, in the, in the way they speak. Don't, it don't line up. [00:21:00]You know?And that's a part of what rips our minds apart because it, we want to trust them and we wanna believe, and we wanna make it make sense. But they constantly live in on two different planes. They live in one reality. You live in another reality, you know? And that's why it's so easy for them to lie, manipulate, because they have never really been down to earth in the first fucking place.Fuck boy. One will be Jared, fuck boy. Two will be Nick. Fuck boy. Three will be Nate.Now this is December 24th when I find this text. You can't tell me women's intuition ain't real, baby. You know? And I believe women's intuition and the Holy Ghost, the spirit, whatever you want to call him, running tandem. It was like a comb. Calm, calm, calm [00:22:00] sense of knowing that came over me. It wasn't anxiety, it wasn't insecurity.It was like, Hmm, something. Don't feel right. Something ain't right. Something ain't right. Something ain't right. You know? Unlock his phone because we have access to each other's phone, you know, and go and scroll through and find all that. The Lord gave e Ethan space and time. Like the Lord gives us all space and time to come and tell me this.He beside it. When I woke him up at one in the morning, he just started lying, lying, lying, lying, lying, lying. In in, in my book that I'm gonna be writing, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have this, this, these text spelled out so you can see exactly what he said and, and things like that. This fool sent [00:23:00]43 text messages, text messages to this fuckboy, to who was he?This was Nick. He was, he was texting Nick 43 text messages in 30 minutes. This is just Ethan talking to Nick, not counting Nick talking back to, to Ethan. So you probably over a hundred text messages between the two of them in a half an hour. During our relationship. Ethan never asked me for sex. He's a part of this, this, this, this fucking pandemic epidemic where men cannot ask for sex unless this's through an app or through some sort of technological device.And in the relationship, you know, I was primarily the bottom. He was primarily the top. You would think that, you know, most Thompson would be able to get out there and get after a piece of ass if they wanted. Mm-hmm. , not these little boys running around [00:24:00] here, . They cannot, they absolutely cannot. , you know, so he was able to go on, you know, find some fuckboy on an app and get very heavily, aggressively sexual with them, seeking them out, initiating conversation.And all I got was complaints from him throughout a relationship. And I had to do the initiating of the sex, but he could go and, and give this side of him to a stranger where we've been together for half a decade. That cuts. It really, really does. So on. But before, but before December 24th, I had found out about Jared.Jared, who is fucking boy one Ethan and I had gone to New Orleans. Huge argument. I'm so thankful I will never [00:25:00] have another argument on the streets of New Orleans again. Only two people in my life have I ever had this unfortunate experience with. Both of them are narcissistic as people. Both of them have unresolved issues that come out in angry fits at 2:00 AM when they're drunk.I've been in New Orleans a thousand times twice. Told is the, that's the only thing we come. You know, everything's all, you know, everyone's like arguing. This fool was so drunk. He took an Uber back from New Orleans to Baton Rouge, tried to blame the Uber driver for taking him to the wrong address and everything.And it was like a whole thing. He comes back to my house, he's all fucked up. I offer him to let me back his car out of my garage. He's like, no fighting hits my car and everything like that. I check my I check his location just to be sure he got home safe, hoping we could talk through it. I look on [00:26:00] his location to find him at some man's house child.I'm all like, okay, and who is this ? This is somebody he claims he's not fucking, and it's like a, you know, like a whole thing, you know? And we'll, we'll get more back on Jared later. I did not believe him. Something just didn't feel right. Now this is 7:00 AM and he's over at Jared's house and I go, this don't make sense.Ethan's trying to say he was just talking to him over, over some apps or social media, whatever. He just met him and I said, oh, Uhuh, ain't nobody gonna let you at their house at 7:00 AM unless y'all fucking, I got people I've known for 20 years. I can't just go rap, tap, tap, tapping on they door at no 7:00 AM I'm gonna get cussed the fuck out.Uhuh, nobody's dead dying or going to jail yet. Don't disturb people at 7:00 AM At least not physically in person. You can call some shit and see if they're up. But [00:27:00] I said this is unusual. On this day, he lied. This was October 30th. He lied and said it was his first time meeting him the next day. He said they had hung out twice by the time the full truth came out.come to find out. They, they, they, they had long history together, honey, long history together. Th that's how, this is how Ethan did. He would, he would present me truth mixed with lies and then sell it as though it was a whole truth. So, on the 21st of November, because I never could get peace with this, I said, something still don't feel right, something still don't feel right.Are you telling me the whole truth? And I said, you know what? We gonna do a vowel, you know, to God from my research, some, some, some poor women out there have been so, so, so degraded and [00:28:00] so de deconstructed by these trilon ass men that they've gone to get lie detector tests done on these men. Look, I'm gonna tell like this, if you come to a point, and it, and I, it's when you've got children and all of this to consider, , their situation's different.If you have things that tie you into people, but my God, being with this person is gonna run your mind and you it is gonna wear it out, you'll have a brain left. So I, I find a way to leave. If we've come to a point where we, where we have to have our men or women or what, or everything in between, whatever sort of per person you with, if they have to take a vow to God before you believe them, or a lie detector test bitch, it's time to go.We all deserve to be with somebody who, who we know is gonna look us in the eye, tell us the fucking truth we about where they've been, who they've been with, or what they have and haven't been doing, and what their plans, hopes and dreams are. We should not have any fabricators around us. [00:29:00]Mm-hmm. like the Lord said, from such Turn away.From such turn away. So I wrote, so I wrote out this vow. . Ethan and I, you know, touched hands and, you know, did a special prayer and really, really signified This. Vowels are real, real vowels are very, very real. And God hears you. You can't, you know, God sees everything and he hears everything, okay? It is not, it is unwise to lie before the throne of God.But let me read to you this vowel. This is how deep, deeply entrenched in deception narcissists are and how just detached from reality. Now this is, this is, this is what Ethan vocalized on the 21st of November. By now, he had already had the affair, was planning to have more was planning to keep Jared in his life.[00:30:00]You know, he was not planning to get rid of these people. So not only did he go out and do what he did, he was planning on keeping them around. Personally, I feel like our relationship was over. , you know, back in October when he did all of this, he just didn't have the balls to come to me and say, so when I go to break up with him, he's acting like why?He really couldn't understand why I was leaving him. . You know, this vow is a promise made from Ethan to Devan and Hubert, and before the most high God, the father of Jesus Christ, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, and the God of the Israelites. This vow is in direct relation to the secret relationship between Ethan and Jared.Ethan Vows. The following is true without exception, and Ethan vials this to his hurt, pain, and retribution [00:31:00] in all areas of his life. Should he state and attest to anything that is not true and accurate? Ethan Vials the following. There was nothing in the chat stream. You did not want Devan in to see me pause here.There was a an in Instagram was, was how Ethan was communicating with, with Jared. And one thing that I need to heal whenever stuff like this has happened is I need to see what, what, what, what he said to them. First of all, cause I don't believe, I didn't believe my ex. And what, what Ethan did was, while we were on the phone that night of the 30th, he and I asked him to save that, that that chat stream.So that, and he's of course arguing, well, why do you need it? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He intentionally deleted it, [00:32:00] lied and said he didn't know how Instagram worked when he just, he's always on social media. Could never get him off his damn phone. He knows how it worked and then cuz I did like a test of it myself and went to go delete a message and the whole big red screen pops up and says, are you sure you want to delete this?He's trying to act like it was an accident. You know, later on he would confess, he intentionally deleted it. But the thing was, I told you I needed this to help me. He intentionally deleted it. Okay? So that's the chat stream. A part of this vow was trying to, for me, trying to get peace about that because there was a whole ga gaping space there, a whole block that was missing.So I continue. There was nothing in the chat stream. You did not want to van and the sea. There was nothing sexual and you did not delete the chat stream on purpose. This is what Ethan is vowing to, to, to Christ. [00:33:00] Now you and Jared. Never had sex or did anything even remotely sexual. You know, Ethan, in this guy's conversation never was sexual in person or over Instagram.The two of you never watched pornography or anything sexual in nature. You never flirted with Jared in person over Instagram or in any other way at all. The nature of your conversation was completely friendly. There was no kissing, touching, rubbing, or physical contact between the two of you besides a possible handshake or other greeting goodbye gesture.You never spent the night at this place and you never stayed past dark. You attest. There are no secret people you are visiting have visited in the past that you have not told me about, and there are no more guys you are in communication with in any way [00:34:00] whatsoever. This is November 21st. I'm sorry. Yeah.2022. On the day that Ethan took this vow, I did not know about Nick and Nate . So on the day that Ethan took this vow, he had not yet divulged to me that him and Jared had a sexual history. They've been fucking back in college, off and on. All the things that he vowed to God were not true, were true.This whole thing. And how, you know, how did I find out about this? Because I will confess to y'all, cuz I don't mind letting my reputation be shredded. Hell it already is. Shit. . I mean, you, you read my book, I listen to my shows, bitch. I've done what I've done. I've did what I've did. So it's too late to try to keep it too fucking classy over here, girl.And so , [00:35:00] I allowed myself to become so pathetic and so insecure and so stripped of my identity and my fierceness that I went, and I, I, I used my own phone to, to secretly message Nick and Nate to try to verify what, what, what, what Ethan was telling me. Whether it was true or not.One of them never responded.And the other one Nick never responded and Nate caught on to that. It was like, You know, a ploy of mine to try to get truth out of him. And he basically told me what I'm telling you. He was like, okay, you don't need to be with somebody who makes you feel the need to go around and skip trace and find truth.And, and you know what? I, [00:36:00] I, I texted Nate back. I was like, you know what? You right. This is so sad. This is so pathetic of me. Look at what I've become . Look at what I've become. You know, you would think it would be easier, you know, to, to, to walk away from somebody who's hurt. You like this, but it, it's fucking hard to do.You know? It is really, really fucking hard to do. When I did start to break away from Ethan, it's like I had to wean myself off of him. I took like 24 hours and we used to text all throughout the day. We spent so much time together. I took 24 hours to just like not communicate with him at all. And it was fucking hard.And I think I fell short of that slightly. And then, then I took like seven days. It was after that seven day period that I realized that I didn't miss him. It was peace without him. And then that's when I broke up with him. But it was fucking difficult. Even after that, it was still hard, is that I was trying to see can there be a friend she could, trying to [00:37:00] negotiate, trying to negotiate with, with, with the person who devastated me is not healthy.All of my counselors and everything are like, girl run . They like you, they're like, you almost put yourself in the hospital and everything like that. You can't be worrying about Ethan right now. You know, you, you need, you need to be worrying about you.And so the, the, the fu I don't know if it's funny or fucked up, you can be the judge of that, but in, in my conversation, talking, texting, Nate. One of the people Ethan had, had been slept with before. It's like, it's like Nate was trying to get me to leave Ethan for him. He , you know, he was like, you know what, I've been through this too.And he, he, he and he, and he began to be a, a comforter to me. And I was like, well, this and shit. One of the people now, Ethan did not, well, as far as I [00:38:00] know, you know, cheat on me with, with Nate. There's somebody like away from his past or something that he slept with. He, and she did try to go sleep with Nate a few days after.He did go and fuck Nick, but Nate didn't answer the phone. And that's probably to Nate's benefit because Ethan was running around here covid positive while he was cheating. And that's a whole other thing there. But um, And so I, I thought that that was most interesting. But I was like, we're not about to have us a trauma bond and go live a life because Ethan did fucked up shit. But, but Nate was like, I don't wanna talk to Ethan no more. He can go eat shit and die cuz that's just wrong. And so this whole thing is just dumb because all throughout last year Ethan and I were trying to work on having actually an open [00:39:00] polyamorous relationship.Ethan was on this thing. He was like, he wants more variety. He feels like people in their twenties should just be ho. And I would tell him, no, that's just you. Not everybody in their twenties fucks around like that. And so, but I didn't hold it against him. I was trying to not be judgmental for my part. I was glad to have broken free of the church's influence over me, making me feel like everyone had to be monogamous.And if they're not monogamous and they're evil and sinful and. The devil's gonna drag them down the hill, you know? And I did my own research and everything and I was beginning to break free of that. And and I never dealt with people like that. That was just something that I was struggling with in my own head.Half the damn Bible is, is, is polygamous. So people who think that everyone should be monogamous and just, just fucking go to hell and be done with it. Cause I'm tired of dealing with the way they try to control humanity. And so well, I'm not tired of dealing with it. I will strive with those bastards, you know, you know, for [00:40:00] as long as I possibly can, but I am tired of hearing their fucking rhetoric.But the whole thing was dumb because by the time Ethan decided to go do this, we were having orgies with people. We had tried having sex separately from people. He had this fixation where he was gonna have him a certain amount of fuck boys and or whatever. And I'm like, okay, I don't see why you have to have a number but me.It was more like having the freedom to not deny a connection should I happen to come across somebody For him, he wanted a set this many people he sees every month. Okay, well, he has all kinds of insecurities and validation issues, and really, he, he is leeching off of men to feel better about himself because of his own internal struggles and know all this.Again, this is the person who sat there in counseling, like a damn silence, like it was a silent disco or some shit. Didn't say too much. Okay. Hmm. Thinking I'm gonna stay with him. They [00:41:00] had the motherfucker had the nerves to ask me to still stay with him, to help him work through his issues. I'm like, you've had damn near half a decade of counseling to do that the fuck, have you been doing this whole timeSo I'm like, no, you had your chance. It's never, so that's why the whole thing was dumb. I'm like, we already fucking other people. We had paused it because we, I had made some mistakes. He had made some mistakes, so we needed to regroup. We paused. And so he can start a job that I fucking help him get. And and so, so we had, we, so he couldn't make it to the counseling sessions, you know, he had to reschedule and shit, you know.But I'm like, dude, this is stupid. We're already fucking other people and talking about it. Why in the hell would you wait till now to go and retaliate against me for whatever you think I've done? You know, from years ago, we can't even remember the last time I've done anything in the way of [00:42:00] disrespecting him with another male.I had outgrown that and evolved, and evolution is a word that my ex does not know. And and I'm like, it's just stupid. We're already literally doing this. Why in the fuck would you go and do this? And it wasn't until January again, he took that vow on November 21st. It was January. I, I used Ethan's Instagram. To message Jared to ask them if they'd ever been sexual because it just did not add up to me by now. Ethan was trying to say, remember at first, Ethan said he had only met Jared that first time on October 30th when I discovered him through the phone locator.Then he changed it to [00:43:00] two, three times. Eventually, he moved it back to really, they hung out. They started hanging out in September long before October, and they hung out four times and that they didn't necessarily message every day. And I, and I told E Ethan, I said, all right, I messaged Jared, are you sure that you, there's nothing you want to tell me now By now, Ethan's parents had had to come to town because he had drunk himself into this stupor, shaking and dribbling and shit.And I wasn't sure if he was gonna have a fucking stroke, you know? He, you know, it's just so, so crazy. These narcissistic people, especially these covert ones, will go and do all of this dumb shit. Then when the hammer starts to fall on them, can't face the judgment. And then when, in his case could crawl into cheap bottles of vodka and I mean cheap, you know, I would walk into his house, these huge plastic bo leaders, plastic whatever's down there on the bottom shelf [00:44:00] beneath Skol.That's the ch, that's the gasoline that he's up there drinking because he can't deal with the fact that our relationship is crumbling because of some shit that he's done. His parents doesn't have to come to town that to check on him. And everything. His mom and I are trying to talk through this with Ethan, and I'm still trying to find out a way to help Ethan.You know, I'm like, let me get the mic. Let me get the lens off of me and put it on him. You know, I'm at my best when I'm helping someone else, and so I said, maybe if I can just stop worrying about myself and see what he needs here, you know that that's what I started to do when I first discovered all of this treachery back in October, but all Ethan did was take it for granted and lie to my face the whole time.Now we're in Ethan's house and his mom is asking him for the truth. Ethan's lions to his mom too. His dad, you don't give a fuck. At least the fuck boy had enough integrity to tell the damn truth. [00:45:00]Granted the fuck, boy didn't necessarily know that he was talking to a whole family of people, so maybe he would've lied too.I don't know. But I asked Ethan, I said, Jared is about to respond to this. Are you sure? There's nothing you want to tell us? Is this the truth? Ethan is sticking to his lie. He's like, no, I never had sex with Jared. Never, never, never, never, never. Rubbish all of it. And that's when Jared responds. Yeah, we fucked around in college.Couple of times, . Okay? And the, the, the, the hurricane and the storm ensued from there. Hmm.I don't think Ethan had seen that movie as the thin line between Love and Hate.All, all I'm gonna tell y'all for right now is that it is, and that I did what I did.So[00:46:00]oh, thank God. I can laugh about this now. Ooh, Jesus. What a deliver. further insulting, not to me, but to Ethan, is just how tragic and trifling these fuck boys are. You know, when I was out there trolling social media, I found, you know, Jared he, you know, his other fuck boy of Ethan's, you know, they'd be like, on unlike Facebook begging people from money and shit, you know,you know, begging people for money,And I'm like, okay. I had Ethan on first class flights to places, you know, that I paid for. I had him a whole wardrobe and shit that I paid for. You know, I furnished his, his house mostly, you know, we had [00:47:00] plans to go on, on cruises to go to the Orient. He has a passport. He's never fucking used. I had plans to change that, you know, you know, to take him, you know, more places.Once I found out about, you know, Jared, I canceled every fucking trip. Every fucking trip. You know, that was devastating enough when I, when I looked on there and saw that he was over at that boy's house, it's like my heart fell through the core of the earth. And I called Ethan and I told him like, you're hurting me.Didn't give a fuck. He stayed over there at least good an hour and a half, just smoking weed and doing whatever. So I said, okay, you just going. Chill. You just gonna like Netflix and chill with some, with some dude that I, that I don't know exists. And this is totally okay with you, so, okay. Okay. Okay. [00:48:00] I, I, I, I, I, I, I did some things.I did some things. I did some things. But this is, this is like the low quality of people. How in the hell are you going to run around behind the back of one such as myself? I don't usually toot my own horn, but I'm gonna say I did a hell of ala for this boy. It was my priority in life to enhance him, to do what I can, to uplift him and elevate him and to bring him up.It doesn't matter if it's a plant that I'm growing a chicken, I'm raising a cat or whatever, whoever and whatever I have some sort of influence on, I need to see that they can do better. I need them to evolve. I need them to grow. And but all Ethan did was interpret that as control. He called me controlling so much, said I didn't want him to have friends.I mean, he, he, he, he, he kept talking to me like I was his enemy. And I kept asking him like, please don't [00:49:00] make me your enemy. Oh, well, he made me his enemy. Well, if he wants to take any trips now, perhaps he can go back on Grindr and get a one-way ticket to someone's bedroom because that's about all the fuck he's going to get.And speaking of Grindr and shit, y'all, let me warn you in my research of all of this, the, these apps use, I believe that they use this thing that I discover that's called a, a variable ratio. Reinforcement is something like what casinos use, where you where every now and then you'll win or you'll hear.You hear a sound that is, you know, a special tune or a special note tailored a certain way to inspire excitement from your, or anticipation. You don't know when it's gonna happen, but you know, if you keep at it, eventually something will happen. This is why people sit in front of the slot machines are saying, the casino for hours, hell, I've done it.Wouldn't that bitch eight [00:50:00] o'clock at night come out at noon the next day? Be like, where the fuck did the time go? How long we been in this motherfucker? ? Okay. Okay. You know, all them apps are no damn different. I, I don't think most of you would care to actually tally how much time you spend on Grindr, , you know, or jacked or scruff, or whatever the fuck the case may be.I've done it. But this variable ratio reinforcement is like an algorithm or a way that those apps are designed to create addiction and to make you be addicted to them. In my research, myself included, many people have reached out to Grindr and these apps to try to get them to ban us from them so that we stop using them.I'm here to let you know that they, they're, they are, I'm gonna say they're less than transparent about whether they can do that or not, or whether they want to. I mean, I don't really think, I mean, they have to, the [00:51:00] billions that have been made are not enough. They still need more , so they're not really trying to let us go, you know, it would seem, but be careful of that, and I encourage y'all to research that variable ratio reinforcement because that shit is real.And don't let these apps and, and all of this shit like destroy your life. You know, I, I was reading an article that guy who created grinders after he got, came out of hiding or whatever, he hasn't started a fucking breakdown, has, has creators, areas working on creating some sort of healthy, alt alternative to Grindr.That's because he knows what his creation done, done to people. , okay? This is a serious thing. It's a very, very serious, but this episode is not about grinder. God knows I'm gonna do a whole episode about that. But suffice it to say, bitch, don't nothing take the place of meeting someone in person. Nothing takes the quality out of meeting someone in person.[00:52:00]I was mentioning earlier how these men, especially tops, because, you know, I'm usually submissive and I, I like a man to be able to look me in his eye and say, what the fuck he wants . Okay. You know, I speak that language when I was in a relationship, I would just be like, can I get me some dick tonight? Let, let's get to the point.I mean, I, I could, I could be flirty and more like sensual with it, but you know, I like it rough. I like it . I like it aggressive and that shit turns me on. And so I get that's not everybody's personality, but you still should be able to like state what you want my nephew, you know? Okay. Yeah. Both of my siblings have sons now, so it's impossible you to tell which ones I'm talking about, but, but one of my nephews, and they were younger instead of coming to me when they would be hungry and just be like, uncle Dev, I'm hungry.Can you please fix me some food? Hand me the box of cereal or whatever the fuck [00:53:00] you know. They would come and be like rubbing their stomach and shit and be like, my tummy hurts. Hmm. Okay. You old enough to talk? , you could just tell me you're hungry. You don't have to like beat around the bush or drop subtle hints and shit.So I saw this bitch assness creeping up in my nephew and I told him, look, your ass gonna starve unless you can just tell me what you want. Cause I didn't want him growing up to be one of these HOAs dudes who think people just supposed to follow them and do shit for them. And you know, they don't have to just tell the world what they want.Like the world is supposed to interpret their signals. No, it is our responsibility to make people understand us and to make people believe us and then make people get what we're trying to say. And just like that I broke him that he never did that shit again. The next [00:54:00] time he was hungry he just said, uncle Def, could I please have some food?Absolutely. . Glad we had this conversation kiddo. Good talk. So, but these damn tops can't ask me for ass. They my, my, my, my boy, my ex-boyfriend couldn't I, but I was so, I was so willing to work with him. I was like, do we need, do you need to send me a text? I wasn't being sarcastic or mean. I was like, okay, if this is where we have to start, this is where we have to start.Do you need to send me a text to get this started? , this is after a half a decade. He still couldn't ask me for sex. Now you ask him, he gonna have all his reasons because he gonna say, because he tried years ago and I shot him down. What? He came at me wrong. But what he would do is internalize one or two or three negative things.Act like that's gonna be the standard, and use that to justify his inactivity today. You know, because it gave him something to [00:55:00] argue with me over. I'm like, it's been years since that shit has happened. Okay. You, you, you can just drop that or let it go. And I told him, when somebody first do you something true, it's on them.But if it's been all this time that has passed and you still talking about that? No. It's just you being a bitter bitch, you don't wanna let it go. Uhuh . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And so, so I was in like port of era till like, back in December and over there being the good boyfriend and not getting no dick, although they was trying hard to throw it at me.Well, they was trying to be tricky about it and shit. So the club was getting ready to close and I was hanging out with these two dudes I had ran into and, and sh I was feeling myself. The shirt was off, I was twirling about, but I have always been one who loved the dance floor. , when I'm on a dance floor, I'm not really trying to talk to men.Y'all sasses need the weight . [00:56:00] Okay. Because I'm all about getting dipped down, but not while I'm twirling Uhuh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No. And so I'm dancing and the club's getting ready to close. And these two guys I ran into and we had just, I guess, just started hanging out. I'm not, I wasn't trying to fuck because I was trying to like, you know, be faithful and you know, and communicating.And my partner and I had not worked out how we were gonna be open. And I was pausing that, you know, and I just said no. I could have reached out to my ex to ask him for an exception, but I wanted to demonstrate that I was putting him first, even though I had many options in front of me. And I communicated that to him while I was yen in Mexico.But these dudes who wanted to fuck, couldn't ask me. They were like, what they did was like, they took out their phones and they were on Grinder, and they made it a point so that I could see that they were on grinder. And I guess the whole way that this is supposed to go is if everybody takes their phone out, [00:57:00] I'm, I'm standing right next to them.If, if everyone takes their phone out and everyone's on Grindr, then I guess somebody's supposed to say, well, hey, we're all on Grindr, so maybe we can all go fuck or whatever.You're tapping me on the shoulder and being like, the show, the, the, the club's closing. So we're leaving now. Wink, wink and Grindr on my phone is not going to make it so that you can cut these cakes, honey, you to come out better. Just being like, bitch, let's fuck. Like, that's, that's, that's, that's more like to the point, , you know, than.Then acting like my little nephew did, dropping hints and shit like that. I don't respect it. It turns me the fuck off. And it does not communicate to me that once you get me, wherever it is you're trying to get me, that you can actually dominate me. Like, I'm gonna want you to . So, because if you, you can't [00:58:00] even like say what you want, how the hell you going to do what I want?Okay. . So , so I think about Madonna's song Love Profusion. I don't care how weak people try to say, I think that was on the American Life album. That, that, that, that, that every song on that album, Ray of Light American, American Life, all of that gave me absolute life. My, my, my quote from Love Perfusion was when Madonna was talking about there are too many options.There is no consolation. Okay? We don't need every man in the square on Grindr. We don't need to be sleeping with, you know, all of those different people a week. You know, if you have to have that much sex with that many different people, and [00:59:00] I've been there before when I was in the military, two to five different men a week was no, was, no was nothing.You know, I could easily do that. You know? What was I 18 living in Tucson, Arizona. I wasn't old enough to go anywhere with no gay bars. There was one club I could go to on Thursday nights, which was deviate. Other than that, it was Desert Rays I'm serving during Don't asks. Don't tell 'em. These are not excuses.I'm just telling you. I had issues that I should have been in front of a counselor dealing with, rather than on gay.com trying to fuck. I had, I was sleeping with that many men on on gate.com when you had to print out directions and go, can you imagine what ahoe? I would've been at the age of 18 in the military, in a college town with, with apps at my disposal.Sweet JesusI'd have no asshole left. God, [01:00:00] there are people now with the same, you know, dad issue that I had. You know, whatever their version of that is, who do have all of these apps at their disposal, and we live in a world that it seems like no matter what the hell you do sexually, they just call it sex positive.And just go on with that. No bitch. Sex positivity is balanced, respectful, respectful to yourself and to others' approach to exploring your sexual nature. That doesn't mean as much as you want to do, however much of it you wanna do in whatever way you wanna do it. It's all good as long as you're not raping somebody.No, . I need y'all to mature beyond that thinking and but Madonna hit it on the head. There are too many options and it seems like no matter how many fucking options people get, the more unhappy they become. I have never met so many people who are like in between 20 and 40 who have cars, houses, fuck [01:01:00] boys fuck girls, drugs, alcohol trips and travel who are depressed have anxiety.I'm like, what the fuck do y'all want? Is like one thing that's fucking you up is that damn social media. I believe that social media promotes low self-esteem, and I thank God that I'm really only on there for my businesses to tell people whatever I, you know, I've written or whatever show, whatever the hell.You know, my ex used to just flip through Instagram, flip through Instagram, flip through Instagram. He's full of in insecurity issues, super need for validation. I would tell him like watching hot men on Instagram and shit ain't gonna help you listening to whatever the fuck they're saying on Instagram's not gonna help you.The attention span is already short, so going from real to real is not going to help you. There's a damn 80 fucking Riri Adderall shortage now, and I didn't [01:02:00] know this many damn people needed this just to remember to like pay bills and shit. I'm not judging you for your mental health issues or for needing the drugs or none of that.What I am saying is social media is not your friend . Okay? You are never gonna get far in life if you're watching other people live their own life, okay? It's okay to pop in every now and then and be entertained, but I couldn't, we'd be hanging out and I would be trying to tell my ex, Hey, can we talk about something?He'd very angrily put his phone down and be like, talk about what? Okay. We watched that documentary on Netflix about that. Can't remember what the fuck it's called, but they did it D about that social media shit, which is a warning. And there were people in there being angry. That damn movie that came out, Megan, about that crazy ass fucking doll.I didn't think that movie was bloody enough. Way more people should have got their sasses slaughtered. But that dog could dance though. I would [01:03:00] give Megan this, that bitch can pick me up and go to the club bitch. But Same thing. That little girl in the movie was strung out on that doll. It's like God is speaking to us through movies and shows and television.It's not just entertainment. These things are inspired by real life to reflect real life back to us. I really couldn't get ever get my ex on board with this cuz I would like to have deep conversations about the meaning of the things that we would watch and how it relates to us. It was all too deep for him.He felt personally attacked and it was like, you know what? Because he wants to live on the surface. He didn't wanna look deep cause he didn't have to face himself. He'd rather alternate realities. But I'm just summing up to say this, be careful with that damn social media. That shit was still your life.It's a, it can fuck up your mind. It can make you feel more insecure than what you already do. You know, my quote on this is that options are the illusion of freedom [01:04:00] to be careful with that. Again, options, baby. are the illusion of freedom.I, like I said earlier, I had warned my ex about his oversexualized nature years ago. He deflected it, of course it was everyone else but him. You know, and he was on that same tangent of sleeping with, you know, multiple people a week. When I met him, I didn't judge him for it. I was like, you know what, how can I tell you?I didn't tell him to stop when we were still first dating and all, and, and just sorting out whatever I just said, respect me with it. I don't need to know about it. I'll never do that shit again. Never. Because I found some people do not know how to have a, a sexual life over here and respect people over there without it crossing over.They, they just don't and so,Let me see. So Luke, I'm going back to the Bible. Luke chapter 21 in [01:05:00] verse 34 says, and take heed to your cells, at least at any time. Your hearts be overcharged with overeating and drunkenness and cares of this life, and so that they come upon you unawares.When I think about this,I think about a, a scene from Percy Jackson's, Olympians and the Lightning Thief when they were in that casino thing, and then people were giving them those sweet treats or whatever in order to keep them locked in there so that they wouldn't make it. On their journey. I think that's the one where they were trying to take that lightning bolt back to Olympus to, to prevent the war.It might have been the second one. I think that's from the first one. At any rate, basically they were using something that they liked. It was like a sweet drug thing to distract them to run out the clock on them. Cause I'm gonna take this like super spiritual right now, like getting caught up [01:06:00] with pleasures in this life, overdoing it.Kinda like on Grindr, like sometimes you'll be on there and fuck, before you know it, your whole day is gone. The shit you meant to do, you didn't get done. There's all kinds of thing. It's like a microcosm for living. Like we can't spend all of our time try to find someone to sleep with, looking for someone to sleep with or sleeping with someone.You know? We have to have variety in life. You know? We have to have more to show for or show for life than what whatever it is that we love on this earth the most now. God didn't say don't have pleasures. He just said, you know, balance it out. He wants you to love him more than you love your pleasures.ButI don't, I don't what, what I see a lot of is a lot of people mainly mentioning God, like during times [01:07:00] of emergency or crisis or being very like, casual towards him. Now you not gonna have like eight hours of prayer a day or nothing like that. But it's about like the intensity, you know, it's about how much you mean it, you know, you're alone time with God is the most important time.But, you know, I don't, you know, the, you know, the people, I'm the closest way. We, we, we, we talk spiritual talk, we speak of judgment to come and things like that. We talk about Dick too. Then we talk about drugs too, but we also talk about Jesus too. You know, my whole thing is like, Balance. You know, in this world everybody talks about experiences.That's a word that gets tossed around a lot. What experience do you wanna have? Experience, experience, experience. And that's all great, but do you love your pleasures and experiences more than you love God? Are you more intense about the pursuit and enjoyment of these pleasures and pleasures of, and experiences more than you were intense about your pursuit of God?[01:08:00]You know, do, do your pleasures cause pain and devastation to other people? You know, I mentioned earlier about Ethan fucking people when he had covid. It, it was October the 16th where he had this affair with shit. Nick, look, I, look, I've be getting all these fuck boys of, of Ethan's confused child. . I had taken him Pax livid because he was, was covid positive with symptoms. And I'm sitting there concerned that he's gonna, you know, maybe die or some shit, you know.So I stopped my whole day to go bring him this medicine. Now mind you, we had just got back from Oregon the week before, went up there so that I could do some medically guided psilocybin and M D M A therapy to help me get over some trauma, some of which Ethan had [01:09:00] caused. But you know, and he held me in my arm through the session.I did not know that while we were yet in Oregon, he was already in communi, he was already hanging out with, with, with, with, with Jared. Jared. And then he was he had already started to see him and he was, he was already in communication with the people he was planning to cheat on me with while we were up there.And I flew, paid for the flight, the, the place we lived, and every fucking thing. And we come back here. He, he, he gets covid. I'm like, where in the fuck did you have gotten covid from? We saw the same people. We were around the same people, you know, tell, you know, you know, I mean, who knows who in the hell he didn't go out and see and get this from, but on October the 16th, I go over there, bring him this pax livid around like 4:00 PM by 6:00 [01:10:00] PM I think I may have left there at 2:00 PM at 6:00 PM He wakes up from a nap.The first person he texts is Nick, you know, or whoever the fuck I tell, I'm getting their fucking names confused now. Whoever he had the damn affair with, that's who he, that's who he went over the, you know, he, he did not, he did not tell him that he was covid positive, you know? I went through the messages.There's no talk. I went through the phone logs. There is no call, like you did not communicate this. Nobody in their right fucking mind would have somebody up to their house who's in the middle of a covid infection. You could wait those 10 days bitch for the medicine to kick in, can't you? Well, apparently not.And so it just hurt more because I'm like, damn, you couldn't have cheated on me like the day before , the day after. Why [01:11:00] did it have to be the same day that you literally saw me a few hours before I bought you medicine to keep your ass alive and a little bun bunt cake thing from nothing. Bunt cakes too, you know, to make it like cute.I was headed to the Middle East of my 40th birthday gift to myself, and I was gonna be. in you know, in the Middle East. I did not know if I was going to show up covid positive while I was over there. I was testing myself every day, you know, enough to meet the minimum standards to be able to travel. I should have taken that Paxlovid myself, cuz that was the only prescription I could get my hands on.I made the decision to give it to my ex to give it to Ethan, you know, cuz it would've, because I just didn't wanna lose him, you know, to that disease. And I have known people who have died from Covid and he knows this. I could have gotten my ass stranded [01:12:00] in the Middle East, cuz if you take those tours and trips and you test positive they leave your ass in the hotel, you're, you're towards canceled in TataSo I risk being stranded and abandoned in the Middle East to give him my medicine that I should have taken with me or began taken, and I gave it to him instead. . And on that same night, a few hours later, he goes to cheat on me and then comes home and texts me basically good night. Like he's done nothing wrong and didn't nothing say anything, ever, you know, until I discover it.Then when I do discover it, he lies. When I discovered those texts, he didn't tell me the truth. He lied, and then I just didn't have peace about it. Look, God not gonna leave his children in the dark forever, but the Lord gave him space to repent and to tell the truth, and he chose lies [01:13:00] instead. I got into them phone logs into those text streams, a

Sedna: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedna_(mythology)?wprov=sfti1 Shakti: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakti?wprov=sfti1 Sophia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(Gnosticism)?wprov=sfti1

Guest - Corey from Superior Defense Cast - Wopdillo, Harambe, whats_your_transfer, and 5forges. Sponsor - gunspaceapp.com Website - cloneincorrect.com Contact - contact@cloneincorrect.com Recorded 5MAR2023 --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/clone-incorrect/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/clone-incorrect/support

Ulla Vangelis – Leslie Reggie Carlisle – John (Beta) Trae Mowaka- Jesse Jack Nash – John (Prime) GM- Tod Foley Before they can figure out what's going on, one of the little bots shoots a laser beam through the wall of the RV. Trae and Ulla run to get into position while Nash kicks open the front door and takes a shot, knocking the one bot back several meters. Oddly, the others don't even seem to have line of sight yet -- they are moving in random directions. Ulla and Trae shoot at some others while Nash obliterates the first one with a killer shot. Suddenly a voice calls out of the darkness: "Stop! Hold your fire! Ohmygod you killed Fred!" The voice assures them the bots won't hurt them: "You're too big," he says. "They're only looking for food." Nash stays ready, weapon drawn, when the guy steps into the light. He looks like a well-groomed city dweller, trying to play bad-ass. He introduces himself as "The Terminationer" (stumbling over his words as he does so - he clearly needs some practice at bad-assery). Trae knocks the stranger to the ground, disarming him, and stands over him, weapon drawn. Nash picks up the dropped pistol. To Trae's surprise, the guy grabs the barrel of the gun and pulls it to his own forehead. "DO IT," he says. "You think I'm scared of death?" Ulla steps in to calm things down a bit. She asks "The Terminationer" what he's doing here. He starts rambling about bringing termination, fending for survival, being a "real man" -- and then inexplicably begins hurling insults at his own father. "Fuck my dad! I'm never going back!" he shouts. At this point Ulla realizes “The Terminationer” is only a kid, maybe 19, probably a runaway. She warns him about the city's salvage operations, but he's not concerned. "They don't care about anything out this far," he says. "They don't care about the tunnel people -- left ‘em out there to DIE." Tunnel people? Nobody, not even Ulla, has any idea what he's talking about. She invites him in for a drink. "I would LOVE a drink," he says. The kid walks into the RV, where Reggie greets him. The kid glances at Reggie, sits right down next to him and introduces himself. He is completely unphased by the sight of a talking baby in a jar. "I've seen lots weirder stuff than you," he says. "My dad works for Global Nation Products, and they have ties to Nutrex, so I know all about the babies they're growing in jars. I think it's for the Mars colony." This kid has big dreams, lots of ambition, and a fierce drive to rub success in his father's face. Unfortunately, what he doesn't have is two brain cells to rub together. daytrippersrpg.com www.patreon.com/asif Twitter twitter.com/CORErpgsystem CORE on Reddit www.reddit.com/r/corerpg/ CORE Discord discord.gg/eM5u4XesXr CORE on Facebook www.facebook.com/COREroleplaying CORE Products: www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?fil…100202_0_0_0_0 www.etsy.com/shop/MidwestResinGeek www.patreon.com/legendsoftabletop Theme music created by Brett Miller www.brettmillermusic.net/

ANT-MAN AND THE WASP: QUANTUMANIA is exactly what you think it is: a big, dumb roller coaster ride where you whiz past crowds of aliens on the way to save your family [I mean, Ant-Man (Paul Rudd), the Wasp (Evangeline Lilly), Cassie (Kathryn Newton from what must be Earth 615, because where's Emma Fuhrmann from AVENGERS: ENDGAME?), Janet van Dyne (Michelle Pfeiffer) & Hank Pym (Michael Douglas) aren't your real blood, but they make you feel at home.]. There's a big bad in Kang (Jonathan Majors), known in this Quantum Realm as The Conqueror. He's dope, and Majors flexes different muscles than he does in LOKI. The range grows ever stronger. Throw in some life lessons about standing up for the little guy and this movie rejoices in the spirit of a matinee, a B-movies, a Saturday morning cartoon. Make superheroes fun again! Fuck the continuity. ALL my homies hate continuity. Sidebar: A huge thanks to my friend Kami for asking me to cover this movie! ❤️ --------------------------- Closing Song: "Weed Pin" - Drug Church --------------------------- Review THE MOVIES on Apple Podcasts & I'll read it on the next episode! --------------------------- Follow Daniel on: Twitter - @TheMovies_Pod Instagram - @themoviespod Letterboxd - https://letterboxd.com/Daniel_Berrios/

On this patreon teaser, Torry (she/her) is joined by Nick (he/him) to play Fuck, Marry, Kill with songs for Taylor Swift's The Eras Tour. This teaser is from Patreon Episode 6: Midnights Deep Dive (Part 3). Join us on Patreon to access the rest of this episode as well as our private Discord community, Book Club, and the Patreon-exclusive episode catalogue. The game is F**k = a song Taylor will include in a melody (30 second/1 minute snippet), Marry = Taylor plays the whole song, and Kill = Taylor will not play the song on The Eras Tour. Torry's 16 Songs Cruel Summer Lover Death by a Thousand Cuts You Need to Calm Down cardigan the last great american dynasty august betty willow gold rush no body, no crime evermore Karma Paris Midnight Rain Bejeweled Nick's 16 Songs Lavender Haze Anti-Hero Snow on the Beach You're On Your Own, Kid Midnight Rain Bejeweled Karma Mastermind cardigan august betty willow no body, no crime Cruel Summer Lover The Man Nick's Hard Cuts: False God, the last great american dynasty, my tears ricochet, mirrorball, gold rush, ‘tis the damn season, Paper Rings, London Boy, You Need to Calm Down, Maroon, Question…? Nick's Previous RTBP Appearances Patreon 6: Midnights Deep Dive (Part 3) Patreon 6: Midnights Deep Dive (Part 2) Patreon 6: Midnights Deep Dive (Part 1) Bonus 25: A folklore Deep Dive (2 Year Anniversary) Episode 81: Petty about HSM: TM, TS Casting, Shailene & Aaron, and Taylor & Joe Episode 65: Petty about the After Series Bonus 12: The Circle (US) Season 2 Finale Discussion Episode 56 Part 2: Petty about Seasonal Allergies, Streaming Services, and School Spirit Episode 56 Part 1: Petty about the Circle (US) Episode 44: Petty about Demi Lovato's Thanksgiving Episode 40: Petty about Disney Channel Stars Bonus 4: A folklore Deep Dive Leave an audio message of a question or comment for Torry to include in a future podcast on Speakpipe. Buy an RTBP keychain on Etsy. Follow RTBP on Instagram, Tiktok, and Twitter. Subscribing and leaving a rating helps us find new listeners! Thank you. Ready to Be Petty is a Playlyst Studios Original.

Introduction: 00:00-3:00 David Guillas on "Night Letters": 3:00-22:00 Todd Kowalski on I SPY and "Fuck the Border": 22:00-1:33:00 Chris Hannah on "A Catastrophic Break With Consensus Reality": 1:33:00-2:48:00 Sulynn Hago on "Without Love": 2:48:00-END

Episode Summary Brooke, Casandra, and Margaret talk about the war in Ukraine and how Russia is not doing great, the train derailment in East Palestine, anti trans bills, Adderall shortages and meth, the return of Big Chicken, long covid as potential auto immune disease, further bans on abortion drugs, drought, floods, earthquakes and the US's top priority: shooting million dollar missiles at balloons. Host Info Margaret can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. Casandra is just great and can be found at Strangers doing awesome layouts, and Brooke can be found on Twitter or Mastodon @ogemakweBrooke. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Next Episode A special episode will come out next week on March 17th on Surviving the Justice System. Transcript This Month in the Apocalypse: Feb. 2023 Brooke 00:15 Hello and welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. This is the February-March installment of our segment, This Month in the Apocalypse and I'm calling it the February-March episode because we're recording in February and we're talking about February but you're going to be listening to it in March, most likely. I'm Brooke Jackson, and with me today, as usual are the quick thinking Casandra and the fast acting Margaret Killjoy. Casandra 00:38 I don't know if that's accurate. Margaret 00:42 Or at least fast talking sometimes, especially when I'm hyper. And today I'm hyper Casandra 00:46 half of what I'm going to talk about today is brain fog and how it impacts me. Brooke 00:51 Nice. Well, before we get into today's episode, we'd like to share a little something something from another one of the swiftly streaming podcasts on the Channel Zero network of anarchist podcasts. Casandra 01:17 And we're back. Cas, Margaret, how are you feeling today? Casandra 01:51 I just had my first sip of tea. Margaret 01:55 I have been doom scrolling so hard that I didn't sleep last night because of all the anti trans legislation. So I didn't sleep enough and then I ate a protein cookie and pretended like it was food. So I'm great. Casandra 02:07 And you don't do caffeine at all. Not even tea. Margaret 02:09 No, yeah, a bunch of sugar and protein in a cookie form is my equivalent of like making me immediately hyper. Casandra 02:18 Alright. Margaret 02:19 Because I don't fuck with caffeine. I'm straight edge, except for alcohol. Brooke 02:24 Well good, you should take all that energy and tell us some things. Margaret 02:29 Oh, okay, right. I'm first. Okay, February has been a big month for the apocalypse. The Apocalypse is coming in hard with a bunch of mostly really bad shit. I think that the biggest story, or whatever, the earthquake that happened in Turkey and Syria was really fucking bad. Everyone probably already knows this. As of when I'm recording it, the death toll stands at about 50,000 people in Turkey and Syria. Those numbers are still expected to go up. And a lot of it has to do with poverty and with buildings that are not built to withstand earthquakes. This is happening in a poor region. And that is absolutely affecting everything. I don't have as much information about that to relay, but I just feel like it's like the single most...like now I'm going to talk about the fucking balloons and I hate the fucking balloons. And I want people to know that like the earthquake is more important. But on February 14th, I think, I don't remember, I wrote on February 14, but you think I'd remember that was Valentine's Day. A surveillance balloon, there's a Chinese balloon and the US shot it down. It was a really actually big balloon and it probably included some surveillance equipment. China was like, "It's civilian." The US is like, "No, it was military." I'm not stressed about it because I expect the US government is surveilling me and I don't really give a shit if some other country...whatever, I don't fucking care. It may have been capturing cell transmissions and shit over the US. But then, of course, this sets off this like massive paranoia, where everyone's like, "Balloons are trying to get us. Those Chinese balloons." And the US like scrambled.... Brooke 04:20 I always knew it was going to be balloons. I've always said it, the balloons are coming for us. Casandra 04:22 Doomsday mechanism. Margaret 04:26 I mean... Brooke 04:27 it's the balloons. Clearly. Margaret 04:30 They are creepy. Actually. This is funny, my my dad is phobic of hot air balloons. I'm sorry to reveal this about you, dad. And because he was always like, "No, they're just there. They're on the horizon. They're creepy." Like he's not afraid of being in that. He's afraid of them like on the horizon. Casandra 04:46 One of my most traumatizing childhood moments was this hot air balloon show was like going over the neighborhood and I was spinning in circles staring upward watching them as one does and forgot that my mom had a whole like row of rose bushes. And then spent the whole afternoon having like rose thorns picked out of my ass. So, that's all to say that I don't think your dad's insane. Margaret 05:10 Yeah, so the US government scrambled a bunch of fighter jets to shoot down a whole bunch of other balloons, all of which, like the government is like, "We do not believe that they are surveillance balloons, but we don't know." And the reason that they're saying we don't know is because, well one they obliterated tiny balloons with missiles. So there's like, not a lot left. There's like like half a million dollar missiles being shot at these fucking things, one of which missed. They missed a fucking balloon over Lake Huron, and then it like, fell into the lake. And they're like, "No one was harmed." And I'm like, great, I feel so fucking good that the government is shooting missiles at the US. That makes sense. And so probably those balloons are like amateur weather balloons, like people like do this, where you're like, I'm gonna get a balloon and like, put a bunch of equipment on it and send it up into the sky. And it's cool, right? And because you can like see the stuff. And so fortunately, the US government is there to protect us against amateur weather and radio fans. Brooke 06:11 You know, you know, our friends over that other podcast have been saying we should nuke the Great Lakes. So I think this was just a trial run to... Margaret 06:20 Fuck, Robert Evans is like actually the one that got them to shoot missiles. Casandra 06:24 Cancel Robert Evans. Margaret 06:25 Yep. All right. Yeah. Or he's a prophet. Brooke 06:32 That's what I was gonna say, Margaret 06:34 Speaking of Prophets, but actually, in both mench versions of that word, there was a massive disaster on February 3, in East Palestine [rhymes with Springsteen], Ohio, because it's not pronounced Palestine [rhymes with Stein], in which a train carrying a bunch of toxic shit had overheated wheel bearings, and derailed. It passed like a bunch of sensors that were like, detect overheated stuff. And then like on the last one, it was like, "Hey, you're overheating," and then it crashed. This overturned 11 Toxic cars at a...a bunch of more cars overturned, but 11 of them were full of toxic chemicals, including vinyl chloride, but also a bunch of other shit. 115,000 gallons of vinyl chloride, were let loose. And then they were like, "Slright, well, we better set the shutter on fire," I'm not actually even going to like talk shit on the fact that they set on fire. It might have been the best thing that they could do in that circumstances. There is a lot of stuff that is implying that the government and you know, Norfolk Southern and all that are like downplaying the degree to this disaster. It is a massive disaster, it is a big fucking deal. And the people involved should be held accountable. And there's like, all kinds of stuff about how a lot of the deregulation and of course, you know, the fact doesn't help that Biden like stopped a railroad strike for better safety conditions, because that's mostly huge part of what people are striking for. And they absolutely are like, the numbers are trending upwards. They're like, "It's not a big deal." And they were like, "Hey, there's a bunch of dead fish." And people were like, "There are 4000 dead fish." And they had a very specific number. It might not have been that number was like 300, 800, 3,850, or something. As of this morning, when I double checked, they're up to 43,000 dead aquatic animals. That's 10 times the previous claim. I understand why people are skeptical of these claims. They're probably not forever chemicals. These are the sorts of chemicals that will break down. However, no one knows the long term effects of the exposure that people have already had to these chemicals. And it's fucked up. Norfolk Southern stock has dropped, but not as precipitously as you would might like. It's not even as low as it was last October, just like took a dip. So buy the dip, everyone go out and buy....don't do this. Don't go out and buy stock. Okay, that's what I know about that. Other people might know more about it. Casandra 08:56 Oh, I was just gonna say that.... Margaret 08:57 Next. Okay go ahead. Casandra 08:58 I was just gonan say that the EPA seemed pretty like, firm with them, which I appreciated. It wasn't the response I expected. Oh, were you wagging your finger at me? Or like...they were like. Brooke 09:12 I was being the EPA. Yeah. Because we're in a point of visual medium here, right with a podcast. So, everyone can see me doing that. Casandra 09:19 I watched the recording and the guy was like, "If y'all don't do this up to our standards, we will do it and then bill you and not just like, you'll get the bill, but we'll bill you a certain number of times the amount that it actually cost us as a penalty." Yeah, it's something I don't know. Margaret 09:37 I mean, that's good. Yeah. Oh and then the other thing, when I when I lead with the transition of Prophets in both sense of the word. About a week before this disaster, I watched the Netflix movie "White Noise" based on the 1980s novel called "White Noise," in which a toxic chemical train spill it In East Palestine, Ohio happens and fucks everything up. And it fucks with my head, just straight up. It fucks with my head that I watched a movie about a natural disaster and then... not a natural disaster, a manmade disaster. And then a week later, it happened in the same town of 5000 Fucking people. Or 4000 people. Casandra 10:20 Maybe, you're not a prophet, maybe actually. Your brain just determines all of reality. Margaret 10:29 Oh, no, I'm not a prophet. No, no, no, no, I don't think this is me. Casandra 10:31 I think that what happens in your head is then what happens in the outside world. That's more plausible. Brooke 10:39 Yeah, that seems right. Casandra 10:40 So, don't think anything.... Margaret 10:42 This is a really good thing to tell someone who lives alone. Brooke 10:46 I mean, it clearly anyone who reaches a certain level of podcasting, fame then develops a power to cause things to happen. Yeah, that's what we're saying here. Margaret 10:57 Good to know. And then everyone lived in a happy anarchist society for all times in which everyone was equal, except Margaret was a little bit more equal and got like twice as much tea in the morning. Casandra 11:06 You don't like tea. We just went over this. Margaret 11:10 Yeah, well, I shouldn't have more of something I want. That would be fucked up. Casandra 11:14 This is the like weirdest Catholic version of anarchist Utopia I've ever heard of. Margaret 11:23 Hi, I'm Margaret Killjoy. Alright, so it's speaking of other bad shit that happened this year, or actually, well, okay. The thing that happened in February is is the one year anniversary of the Ukraine war. As currently stands, it's fallen out of the news, which means that no one is dying anymore, and everything is fine. Except that... Brooke 11:47 PBS still does it. So to just throw a tiny amount of credit over there. But yeah... Margaret 11:54 Yeah, well actually it's funny because people will talk mad shit about mainstream news and for good reason. But like, overall, I think mainstream news is a little bit better of a job than like Twitter at like, staying attached to stories over time, rather than just like chasing the clicks, which is fucking saying something because that is what mainstream news was notoriously bad at. I just think social media is even worse at it. On the other hand, it's not the job of the random Twitter person to....Okay, so, the Ukraine war is largely out of stalemate. As stands Russia holds 17% of Ukraine, an area twice the size of Italy. It's less than they controlled at the beginning of the war by a decent amount, and specifically, almost all their holdings are in the east. And it's been like slowly being chipped away at overall is kind of the general thing. Most foreign fighters left after a few months, it went down, there's 20,000 foreign fighters, mostly like vets of various other countries who are like, "Well fuck an invasion." And a lot of people were like, I think actually a lot of people were like, "Well, I fought in all of these like evil US wars, because they have like worked for the US government. Here's a just war," and people went like chasing a just war, right. It's down from about 20,000 foreign fighters to 2000 foreign fighters as the war drags on. China is calling for peace talks right now. And more might have happened by the time you hear this, like this is like news from yesterday and today, and their position is...like I mean overall they're trying to present themselves as neutral, but like overall they're like, "This is a war of Western aggression." You know? "This is a war of you know a Ukraine shouldn't dress like that if it didn't want to get attacked." They've four times abstained....Thank you for laughing at my off color joke. And yeah, I mean, because that is what it comes down to this idea of like, we had to invade you because you are getting too close to our borders with your power or whatever. Like, you can't fucking justify invading another country for that reason. Casandra 14:03 They're opposing US imperialism, Margaret. Margaret 14:06 Yeah, they do. Casandra 14:07 NATO! Margaret 14:10 Yeah. Yeah. And that's China's position. They're with the US tankies. Or rather US tankies are with them. They have four times abstained from voting in the UN votes to ask Russia to withdraw its troops it's possible also that China's like trying to get in....and this is like everyone. This is the actual imperialism from my point of view about all this is everyone calling for these peace talks a lot of it is that they're like they want in on the economic reconstruction aka they want like their economic interest in the capitalism to to do their thing just to China it's slightly more state capitalism in the US it's slightly more.. Casandra 14:46 China's not capitalist Margaret What are you talking about? Margaret 14:48 Oh, right. Sorry. I Forgot. They want to bring their peoples army... and I Love that It's like the tankies pretending that Russia is fucking commie...anyway. The number of Russian soldiers Ukraine is killing is going up, which, you know, whatever, fuck them. 824 Such Russian soldiers a day are dying in Ukraine in February, which is the highest rate since the invasion started. Between 180,000 and 270,000 Russians have died in the war in the past year. And for comparison, Russia is this huge place. And we think about like how Russia just like, bled people during World War II, you know. Russia is only half the population of the United States. And so this is...so when you think about percentage wise, if you think about, it's like, you know, the equivalent of half a million people dying in one year in a dumb fucking war. About 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died. They claim that 13,000 of their soldiers have died. Vaguely neutral observers from the outside of claims that 100,000 have died, which is like, their, their like, kill rate, oh, God, I'm not even going to pretend to put this in video game terms. That's fucked up. And also another 30,000 or so civilians, Ukrainian civilians have died. Like directly, tons more displace. Everything's fucked up. It's war. I haven't been able to get a recent number for the total number of arrests in Russia. But, it's like worth really understanding how much a lot of Russians do fucking not want this to happen. There were 15,000 people arrested protesting against the war and like the first month of the war alone, and there's thousands more at various other times, but I wasn't able to find a total count. And, you know, in case anyone needs any reminding that nationalism is garbage. between half a million and a million Russians have fled, rather than be conscripted and fight in this stupid fucking bullshit. And 200 or so Russians are actively fighting for Ukraine. There is no out good outside guests. That is a guess from one of these Russian fighters. And they all have different reasons. I am aware of their being Russian anarchists. I was not able to find more information about that. Most of the anarchists that I know from other countries I think are more involved in directing solidarity goods, except for Belarus.. A lot of anarchists fighters in Ukraine. Anyway, of the 200 or so fighters, the the one I was able to find the specific motive for he's is doing as his Christian duty to stop invasions. And let's see, okay, almost done with the Russian war thing. Dutch intelligence reports that Russia is mapping power and gas infrastructure in the North Sea for potential attack. This came out like yesterday. So who knows what will happen with that. And then it's also kind of worth knowing there's like all of these, like anti war rallies happening around the war around the world. And most of them are like about trying to stop the Russian invasion of Ukraine, right? They're like, "Hey, this war is fucked up, aka Russia is fucked up." But in the US, we get a different kind of anti war movement, we get an anti war movement that's a weird collection of tankies and Nazis... Casandra 18:20 Margaret, that never happened! Margaret 18:21 ...coming together like a Molotov-Ribbontrop Pact to say stop the war machine. Casandra 18:28 Stalin is the whole reason..... Margaret 18:34 Yeah, no, I know. Casandra 18:38 The reason the Nazis were defeated soley was because of Stalin, therefore, you know, the Soviet Union never never ever could have allied with the Nazis, even though we have historical records that it did blah, blah. Margaret 18:53 Yeah, like at the beginning, Russia was like, "Hey, allies, can we hang out with you, Germany's looking real weird." And the allies were like, "I'm not sure." And so then Russia was like or USSR was like, "Hey, Nazis, can we hang out with you? We know bad shits about to happen," and they were like, "Yeah, but totally," and the USSR sent them tons of aid, just literal material, tons of aid. And collectively, they mapped out which countries they were going to invade together and they invaded Poland together...It's Poland. Am I getting that right? And then, Germany was like "JK, surprise attack." And then the USSR was like, "Okay, we're against you." And then fucking millions of Russians died to defeat the Nazis and that needs to be understood and respected. But like Stalin was like making them...there's like, reports from survivors...This is totally what this episode is about. There's like reports from survivors who were like forced to charge Nazi tanks bare handed. And so like, the high numbers of Russian dead wasn't because Stalin ruled. The high numbers is because Stalin fucking sucks. Anyway. Casandra 20:08 And there's also the whole like, the line that like the USSR saved with the Jews or whatever, when, which was just like totally. Anyway, we won't talk about how Jews were treated in the USSR. Margaret 20:23 When they signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact....Yeah. Anyway, USSR is not modern Russia, but there's an anti war movement. So that's okay. That's Ukraine. Now, the trans laws, the thing that has me up all night. Yesterday, I believe the Tennessee House passed a bill. And now this was misrepresented. And I accidentally misrepresented this too, because I trusted a Twitterer who trusted a news article from a mainstream source that, okay, a Tennessee House did pass this bill. And by the time you're listening to this, probably their fucking Senate and Governor have signed off on it. But the article was like, "And now it goes up to the governor." It doesn't it goes to the Senate first. And a lot of really shitty laws passed the House, but not the Senate in like, any given place. So there's like, still hope. But I'm not full of fucking hope because a lot of these types of laws are passing right now. The type of law I'm talking about, this is an anti drag law. And these anti drag laws are similar ones proposed around the country and all the details are a little bit different. But the overall idea is that if anyone who is a male or female impersonator, AKA a crossdresser, aka, me living my fucking life, or a drag performer, if they perform, and if it's like, in any way, like...some places it's just like literally if they perform, or exist in public, and another one's the Tennessee laws a little bit like, and they perform in a way that has any kind of like, sexual titillation, or whatever then that has to be the venue that is now a strip club legally, or like, needs to be a like 18+ adult entertainment, cabaret or whatever the fuck Casandra 22:15 Like who's deciding if something's sexual? Margaret 22:19 Uh huh. And it is. First cops, then judges, Two groups I trust to the bottom of my....nothing. Margaret 22:35 Or the parents who call the cops. Brooke 22:41 Don't forget about he mob. Margaret 22:42 Yeah, no, totally. They're the first step in it. So that is the literal criminal criminalization of being trans in public. Casandra 22:45 Yeah, there are nine anti trans laws on the books right now in Oregon. Yeah. Margaret 22:52 Yeah. There's 14 other states with similar anti drag laws in the works, including Oklahoma, Texas, Arizona, and Idaho. And I just didn't find the full list, I found people like a couple different places giving like short versions of the list. South Dakota did just pass a law like not just the house or whatever, but like it's fucking signed, that forces trans youth to detransition. And Utah passed a law against trans youth also, very recently, or against allowing trans youth to transition. But, I don't believe it forcibly detransitioned. I believe that this one in South Dakota is the first one to force detransition, which from my point of view, pretty much means that trans...families with trans children who can't afford to move are going to have their trans kids run away or kill themselves. Just like, frankly, I am not recommending. I am recommending if you're a trans youth to in a place that is affected by this to get in touch with community to try and help you and your family get out of that situation. That is what I'm directly recommending. But, the the reason that doctors believe in gender affirming care for trans youth is that it lowers the rates of death substantially. Oklahoma is currently considering a bill to ban gender affirming care to adults, anyone under the age of 26. Brooke 24:22 Fucking Oklahoma. Casandra 24:22 I can't remember which bill i was reading, but I was reading about one that was worded in such a way where gender affirming care also ended up including things like hormones for ciswomen dealing with menopause, like it was so broad sweeping that like, I just don't think people consider the broader implications. You know what I mean? Margaret 24:41 I don't know whether this one was that one, but I...it wouldn't surprise me and I feel like people pass laws like that all the time. And then just like, no one's going to actually stop cis women from accessing hormones from menopause, you know, or like, you know, people dealing with prostate cancer often take hormones and you know, testosterone blockers and things like that, and like...All the shit is overbroad, like crazy, but not in a way where I feel like oh, it's overbroad, and it gets struck down like no, it's gonna get targetedly used against trans people against, the Left. And 5% of US people in the US who are under the age of 25 identify as trans or like nonbinary in some way, compared to point .5% of the rest of the population as a whole. And I would like to...don't make me tap of the sign of the that graph of chart of left handedness as a chart of left handedness. Like once they stopeed. Once they started letting people be left handed, it goes up and caps itself, you know. And every major medical association in America recognizes that gender affirming care for youth saves lives. That is not a...I assume everyone listening to this already knows the shit, but it's like worth fucking knowing. This is not a like, medically contested issue. You know, this is like, and I'm not like, "Man, you know, who I trust immediately, the medical institution, they always have our backs." But, they do in this case, because they're not fucking... Oh, God. That's what I've got to talk about this week. Brooke 26:20 Jon Stewart did a good piece that was on gender affirming care that maybe everyone's already seen, because it was a little while ago, but was, you know, citing those...Just what you're exactly what you're saying, Margaret about every every major medical organization in the US. Margaret 26:38 And honestly has been one of the only cispeople I've seen talking about it in public. The silence from cispeople has been deafening. And if your cis and listening to this, I'm hoping that if you've been silent about it, I'm hoping that the reason you've been silent about it, is because you're afraid of taking up too much of the conversation. Because we do have this way of talking about social issues right now, where people are afraid to talk about issues that don't directly affect them. And I think that that is a misstep. And that it will take cis people talking about this angrily, before anything will change. Because, when it's just trans people, and sometimes their immediate families who are showing up to protest, everyone's going to be like, "Well, fuck those pedo whatever," fuck, whatever. Fucking bullshit, you know. So from my point of view, part of the reason this keeps me up at night is not because the Nazis want to kill me, they've wanted to kill me for a long time, they've sent me letters to this effect, with like, my parents address in it, you know, it's that when I don't feel supported, is when I feel the most lost about all of this stuff, just frankly. And so sometimes like that support is like, like, "Margaret's guide to being supportive to your trans friends," is like, like, sometimes, like random people messaging me to be like, "I see you, you're valid." I'm like, that's great. I don't I don't need that from strangers. What I need from strangers is for people to talk to the people, they're around and say shit about this, you know, I have a, I know I'm valid. I have a supportive family. And I have a supportive network of friends and all of that, you know? Yeah, sorry, this is...I mean, all of these things that we're going to talk about are big deals. But you know, this one affects me very directly. Brooke 28:45 Oh, no, I appreciate you saying more about it, because I was gonna ask follow up questions about like, you know, showing support and good ways to do that. So thanks for talking about that. Margaret 28:55 Be fucking angry. Like, you know, and it's like, and this stuff like, it's also all part of misogyny. Like, because people want to control people's bodies. And so transmen are affected by this because they're, like, leaving womanhood behind and that's bad or whatever. And then of course, transwomen are like, the reason that people don't want us to exist is a weird protect the women thing, right? And so like, when cis women are loudly like, "No, I would rather have this transwoman in the bathroom with me then like I don't know someone who's like peeking under stalls to make sure no one has a penis." Like people being loud about that kind of support. There's this brilliant video of thus person who I believe is a cis woman who's like getting gender policed by a Karen in a bathroom. Casandra 29:47 I saw that Margaret 29:48 And refuses to answer whether or not she has a dick. Yeah, it fucking...that gives me hope. So, I like. Casandra 30:00 That's like reverse Karen. Brooke 30:02 I just bookmarked that so I can watch it after Casandra 30:05 We should start a Nazis know our parents' address club. Margaret 30:17 And then like...it's funny I try not to talk too much about my family on this podcast, I guess, but then again the Nazis already know where they live. Like my dad's fucking ex marine with anger management issue who loves this trans daughter? How's do they think this is gonnna go? Casandra 30:35 I mean, my situation, my parent's would've been like "Whatever." Margaret 30:41 Yeah, okay, fair. I'm sorry. Casandra 30:43 Okay, who's next? Brooke 30:48 Okay. Can we talk about happier things? Margaret 30:54 What podcast are on? Casandra 30:57 I genuinely can't remember who's next. Is it you, Brooke? Brooke 31:03 Allegedly. Although, if it's something you have segues better for, I'm all for it. I had a good segue from the war thing. But then we then we start talking about the trans issue and I don't know where to go from there. Casandra 31:13 I think the world is shit. There are lots of them. They're diverse, shitty things to talk about, you know? Margaret 31:18 Well, and even the war thing, it's like, you know, what, Ukraine is fucking holding on a year later. That is a fucking positive story. It is a terrible, horrible story. But they're still fucking there. You know, like people thought Ukraine wasn't going to be a country by last summer. Brooke 31:36 That's a really good point. Well, speaking of war, wars, the war on drugs. Drugs. Adderall. I did it you're welcome. We did a, I think our August episode or something like that we did a roundup on like shortages, things that were in shortages. And I know we talked about Adderall at one point and being in shortage and why. And that started like last summer sometime I think August or so it was when people started talking about it. The FDA or DEA, I can't remember which one it was that came out with the announcement. I think the the FDA came out like late October and said, "Hey, we have an Adderall shortage." And everyone said, "We fucking know we've been dealing with with this for two or three months now." And it's gotten worse than it's been in the news again, recently, because of just how much worse it has gotten. We talked about it previously, we talked about some of the reasons why the shortage was happening. And part of it is a production issue. It's a very controlled substance. So, it's not like manufacturers can just start pumping out a whole bunch more. And not just like the creation of the Adderall. But the ingredients that go into it are controlled substances as well, so they can only make so much of that. Allegedly, there's enough supply of the base ingredients that we shouldn't have this shortage. So.... Casandra 33:10 Sorry, I'm stupid about Adderall, is it it because meth. Is that the....? Okay, sorry. Brooke 33:18 That's where I'm going with this, but yeah, that's that is that. That is part of the reason it's such a controlled substance, because Amphetamine is, you know, main ingredient, it's it's people often refer to Adderall as being, you know, legal meth, or prescribed meth. Casandra 33:33 I know nothing. Wow. That's wild. Brooke 33:42 So, there have been some reports of folks that haven't been able to get their Adderall and have, in fact, turned to meth in order to get the substance they need, and there's not a good sense of how like widespread this is, versus, you know, a couple of instances that hit the news, you know, there's at least one story of somebody who died in an ER, because of meth. And they said they were taking the math because they couldn't get their Adderall prescription. And, you know, meth, you know, historically causes no problems to the brain and doesn't make people say things that are wacky and untrue. So we can trust that story. But, that's what's happening. But, the fun conspiracy theorh where I'm going with this that's floating around is that the government is purposely restricting the manufacture of Adderall to force people to turn to meth to perpetuate the war on drugs. So there you go. Conspiracy theories are fun. Margaret 34:43 Wait, So this is a new conspiracy. Okay. How the balloons tie in? Casandra 34:48 Yeah. Margaret 34:49 Is that where moving it? They're getting the Adderall out of the country? Casandra 34:52 They're delivering it. If we would have let them come in farther, they would have just released it because everyone wants Adderall. Margaret 34:58 Oh, yeah. That's sort of true...the part where everyone wants Adderal. Casandra 35:03 I do not. Margaret 35:06 Yeah. No, I don't want Adderall. I'm hyper off a cookie. Brooke 35:12 That's part of the issue is that the prescriptions for Adderall increased 27%. From 2019 to 2022. There were like 35 million prescriptions in the US, which is a fuck ton, in 2019. And then it went up to like 45 million by 2021 or 22. And I mean, shocker. Everybody's stuck inside with a pandemic. Like we overprescribed, that are all for sure. And I and that is not to say there's not people who genuinely need it out there. And I don't mean to bash anybody's use of of that prescription. But you know, one of the articles that I was reading they, you know how news reports like to pick a human interest story to tell their story, they were talking about this 16 year old female in Utah, who's like in all of the AP classes, honors classes is getting ready for college and how stressed out she was and obsessed with perfection, and she couldn't get all her stuff done. And then she got an Adderall prescription. And, and now she's able to get all her homework done, and she's acing all their classes, and it's ready for college and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, yeah, I mean, you just gave her gave her amphetamines. Casandra 36:36 I feel like there's a misuse potential. Like, the people I know, who have ADHD and take Adderall, it doesn't impact their system that way, you know. And I also think there's a certain, I see this with autism as well, there's a certain amount of like, like the left handed thing that Margaret brought up, you know? Like, it might seem like, it might seem like an undue spike, but I'm sure a large percentage of that is people who are finally getting care they need. Margaret 37:12 And then also, like, I think about it because I came closer to seeking medication for ADHD than I ever have. And what it was for me is that I built my entire life around the fact that I have ADHD, there's a reason that I'm a freelancer, there's a reason that I, you know, I travel, there's a reason I work for myself. Like, there's all these things that I've done, that have made ADHD not a problem in my life, right. But actually, the beginning of the pandemic, it made it more of a problem. It made it harder for me because like, I had to sit in my cabin and work on a computer in order to eat food, and stuff, you know, and so like, and I don't thrive in certain environments, and so I was like, "Man, if I had something that helped me thrive in this environment." So. Casandra 37:56 Which then makes me wonder, like, how much of that need is attached to Capitalism, you know, lthe ike productivity. So? Yeah. Margaret 38:04 Oh, yeah. No, totally. I mean. Totally. I had a day job for a minute. Casandra 38:10 Sitting in a cabin alone with....That sounds like my dream. Margaret 38:16 I know. Well, I was fine until the day job. Awesome. Margaret 38:24 Okay, so, Brooke 38:25 Again, I don't want to like bash anybody that's taking it. I don't know. I don't want to say that there aren't legitimate reasons that some of those people didn't need it. But, we we do know that it's overprescribed, that you take you know, young people who are high achieving, and we've got them overscheduled and fucking Capitalism. Casandra 38:41 Oh, everyone, I knew in college was....Adderall all the time. Brooke 38:46 Yeah, just give them drugs. So, that's part of the problem. Anyway, the DEA is trying to get you addicted to meth. x Casandra 38:59 I thought it was the FDA. Margaret 39:02 And that's why they're shooting down balloons. Brooke 39:06 No, it's the DEA because that's the Drug Enforcement Agency. They're the ones trying to perpetuate the war on drugs and they have something to do. Casandra 39:14 I hope people know when we are and aren't being sarcastic. Margaret 39:22 I hope so too. But I'm not optimistic. Brooke 39:27 Never take me seriously. That's my answer. I have one other fun conspiracy theory thing. Okay, it actually came up right after the end of our last recording and it was kind of a bummer. We didn't get it in there. But, it's about chicken feed. Casandra 39:46 Big Chicken! Brooke 39:47 And chicken feed conspiracy, that something is....Yep, Big Chicken. Not and not Tyson. Not that evil chicken, but it's actually a big big fooder you may have heard of this brand called Purina? Casandra 40:01 Dog food. Brooke 40:02 Are pretty well known for creating pet food. Yeah. Margaret 40:05 They feed cats. Brooke 40:06 But they also make more industrial feeds like chicken feed and guinea pigs and goats and I don't even know the full extent of their thing, but they make feed for a lot of different kinds of animals. And people started reporting in July last year that their chickens and this is industrial level and you know, household people chicken in the backyard kind of people, crazies like me that their their egg laying productions seem to be going down. And then going through the winter, a lot of a lot of people have talked about their eggs production from their chickens being at or very near zero, which I also have been in this boat for a while my my four girls were not laying any eggs. And it wasn't an old chicken issue, like they're, they're young, and they just started laying this last summer. And yes, production goes down in the winter, that's normal, but doesn't usually just completely drop off. So, people were posting about it on social medias and talking about it and started forming this conspiracy that there's something wrong with chicken feed, Purina mainly because they're one of the biggest suppliers not just under their name brand, but their sub brands as well. And that something is missing in the chicken feed that's causing them not to lay as well. And then lots people saying "I switched to another brand, I started mixing my own," blah, blah, blah. "And suddenly my my chickens are laying again." And as much as I hate conspiracy theories and don't want to feed into it, I have to say that I also was having the same issue of zero egg production. And then I grabbed a protein blend from a different brand and started mixing that into their feed and getting eggs. Margaret 41:49 That doesn't have to be a conspiracy. They could have just fucked up. Casandra 41:51 Honestly, people have reported that they've had their feet tested. They've had their Purina tested and it contains the appropriate amount of protein. So there's like, at this point a month later....I'm sorry, I was the one who brought this up because I was I raise quail. And so I'm on, I don't know, poultry, social media. Yeah. Anyway. But yeah, so apparently people have gotten their feed tested, and it has the appropriate components, so now they're like, "Is there something added to it?" That's the new conspiracy. Margaret 42:27 Well, I know what, I know what the problem is. Brooke 42:29 Morgaret has the answer. Casandra 42:32 Okay, good. Margaret 42:32 Yeah, I watched this....No, it's not gonna be the answer. No, I watched this documentary called All Quiet on the Western Front on Netflix last night. And in it, the Imperial German soldiers, while they're occupied France during World War One, there's they're breaking into farmers yards and stealing the eggs. And so it's actually. It's actually Imperial German soldiers are breaking into everyone's yards and stealing quail eggs and chicken eggs. Brooke 43:10 Oh, okay. Casandra 43:12 Obvious. Brooke 43:12 There are a lot of other factors that genuinely influence chicken, like production, like the amount of light and the temperature. And, you know, our light levels are not particularly off. They're low this time of year, like always, but it definitely has been a little bit colder on average this winter here for us, though. My mother...Hi, Mom, I love you was like you need to put a heating light on your chickens and they'll lay more which I did for a month and it didn't affect anything. Although that was also after one of those snows that we had too. Casandra 43:44 Can I telll you one of the more wingnut versions of this I've heard? Brooke 43:47 Yes, please. Casandra 43:48 And who knows. But, the most like, you know, puppet master version of all of this I've heard is that Purina partnered with some giant egg company that I can't remember the name of right now, who just opened a whole bunch of, starting last fall open several massive like egg production facilities. So, it's in Purina's best interest to add something to the feed so that our chickens can't lay eggs. And that's why egg prices are through the roof. And now you have to buy the eggs and it's just ohhhh. Yeah. Brooke 44:26 Yeah, that's the other thing that's feeding into the conspiracy theories I was gonna wrap this up with. Brooke 44:29 Sorry. I'm taking... Brooke 44:30 No, you're fine. It's perfect. Perfect segue. Excellent. Yeah. Is the prices going up on eggs is all feeding into conspiracy and you know, people not thinking about food prices in general have gone up and we feed chickens food things. And yeah, anyway, what Margaret? Margaret 44:48 Oh, just there's some, I was reading today, that there's some guesses that we might have hit peak food inflation, specifically around eggs and meat. Because basically, no one can get enough money...because you can't sell eggs at a certain...the way cap, the market works, you know, you can't sell it at a certain amount, so fewer sell or whatever. And so wholesale egg prices have started dropping. And as of when the article I read came out this had not yet hit retail egg prices. Because people probably are like, Well, alright, I can buy them for cheap and sell them for just as much Fuck yeah. But wholesale egg prices are starting to drop and meat prices are also starting to drop on a wholesale level, because inflation reduced the profit. Brooke 45:39 Okay. Well, the one upside, so that's sorry..... Casandra 45:48 I think there's something about Purina feed, and we don't know what and that's fine. And that people seem to be switching feeds or making their own and it's fine. I mean, there might be but like, I don't really care personally, I'm like, I just want my quails to lay eggs. Margaret 46:07 And it's just not a conspiracy. They're just fucked up their food. Brooke 46:09 Right. Yeah, there's other complicating factors. It's not maybe not just this one thing. Like, yeah, you know, we hear where Cas and I live have had a colder little bit colder winter than average and that'll slow down production. I don't know for the US as an entirety but you know, just an example. Margaret 46:25 Well, there's there's that saying "Never never attribute to incompetence. What can be understood..." No, wait. I know something isn't...It's Goddamnit "It's not malice. It's incompetence." It's more likely that it is incompetence than malice at any given thing that's happening. Casandra 46:49 I mean, yeah, it's like very experienced people who are having this issue, like there's something, there's something wrong, right? Margaret 47:05 Oh, that's what I mean about...sorry, I don't mean incompetence of the chicken keepers. The chicken lords. Brooke 47:10 That is what we call ourselves, Margaret, chicken lords. Margaret 47:12 I mean, the incompetence of Purina. The...like Purina fucking up the feed is probably because they fucked up the feed, not cause they're like, "hahaha." Brooke 47:25 I mean, it's entirely possible Purina switched to cheaper, lower quality components to create their feeds because of inflation. Casandra 47:31 It's not incompetence if it's a giant company. Yeah. Brooke 47:35 There's something in that. The one upside of.... Casandra 47:40 Root cause. Okay. Yeah. Brooke 47:42 There you go. Nice. Margaret 47:44 Yeah, it might be greed instead of malice. Brooke 47:45 Let me just say the happy thing. Margaret 47:46 What's the happy thing? What's the happy thing? Brooke 47:50 Is that people have turned to other feed sources. So, instead of supporting the big giant mega Corp, they're supporting smaller ones, like I reached out to a local person who's making their own blends. And I'm going to start using some of that. People have learned how to create their own blends and feed their things, which I think it's always great to get away from the industrial manufacturers. So... Casandra 48:11 I don't know how to jump from chickens to this.... Brooke 48:17 Chickens. Avian Flu. Flu. Sickness. Bad. Long COVID. Casandra 48:24 I raised quail because I'm allergic to chicken eggs, cause autoimmune disease. Did you know long COVID is kind of like an autoimmune disease? Brooke 48:32 Nice. Casandra 48:35 Do either of you know anyone with long covid? Brooke 48:37 Yes. Margaret 48:39 Yeah, part of the reason I don't leave the house, not because I have it, but because I'm terrified. I mean, I'm making rational decisions around safety. Brooke 48:48 I'm worried I'm having it. Casandra 48:52 Oh, well, maybe maybe this will be easier. When I when I first heard about it. So, some of the symptoms I've heard include fatigue, brain fog, difficulty breathing, joint pain, chest pain, general like lower quality of life, gut issues. When I hear that list, I'm like, oh, that's, that sounds like my autoimmune disease. And sure enough, they're realizing that long COVID does have a lot in common with an autoimmune disease. I don't think they're classifying it that way. At this point, like the research is ongoing, but it's just really interesting to me. So apparently, something like 11% of people who get COVID-19 will have long COVID, which lets you one study in "Nature," I read said up to 65 million people are suffering from on COVID, which is apparently a 10th of the number of people worldwide who have had COVID. So , 1 in 10 people is kind of a lot. Yeah. And suddenly, you know, folks at the beginning of COVID, who were calling it, a mass disabling event make a lot more sense. Brooke 50:01 Yeah. Casandra 50:05 This is terrible and funny. I read a tweet where someone said "People went on about herd immunity. But now we have heard autoimmunity." Brooke 50:12 Oh, it's funny and awful Casandra 50:17 It is. Sorry, I'm laughing at that because I have an autoimmune disease. I think I should offer that context. So, populations impacted: Apparently 4% of folks with long COVID are under 12. Aside from that about a third are people under 50. Another third are 50 to 60. And then another third are people above 65. So it is impacting people who are our age. Brooke 50:44 You can't have three thirds and four percent. Casandra 50:47 I said, in addition to that. Or after that. Brooke 50:51 Okay, sorry. Math. Just slap me. Casandra 50:53 I read so many studies to cobble this all together. Don't judge my numbers. It's more...I say that to bookkeeper. It's more predominant in transgender folks and women, which is also true of autoimmune diseases. 75% of people with long COVID where never hospitalized. 75% of those people have not sought medical help for long COVID. And there's also an assumption that a lot of these numbers are actually higher, because we all know how reporting has gone down in and how healthcare is expensive. And if people don't have to go to a hospital or a doctor, they won't, you know. Brooke 51:35 Is there anyone out there that still saying long COVID doesn't exist? Not like the you know, extremists but like, mainstream for a while was like long COVID is made up? It's not actually happening. Is that still a common thought? Or is that finally going away? Casandra 51:50 I don't know how common it...so this is all really curious to me because I have an autoimmune disease and because last month, January 2023, two different studies came out about Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, which I also have, and how it increases the likelihood of long COVID. And when that study came out, I started to see a bunch of people talking about long COVID and low dose Naltrexone being a useful approach, which is a medication I take, which I cannot get prescribed by a regular doctor. Because they deny that it's a useful immunomodulator. Like remedy. And that's all to say that like, I think I'm hypersensitive to the disbelief around these things. And one of the reasons this if fascinating to me. Yeah, one of the reasons this is fascinating to me, is because it's opening up these conversations about these diseases that patients have been talking about for years, and have not historically been believed. Margaret 52:56 Often as a symptom of misogyny, right? Casandra 53:01 Yeah, Totally. I don't know anyone who has, you know, something in the spectrum of chronic illness who hasn't gone through, like literally years of doctor saying it "Doesn't exist," or "You don't have it." Or "It's not that bad." Like, I had to call my doctor and inform her of what I had, like, based on my labs, because she didn't tell me. And so now there's this like, sped up process around long COVID, right, where like, so many people are getting sick all at once that like, there was the disbelief and other people downplaying it. But like, research is catching up at a faster rate, it seems like, which has implications for the broader community, which could be positive. Even though it sucks that how many, how many millions. 65 million people.... Margaret 53:52 Well, it's like mRNA caccines, like, it's fucking cool, that we're suddenly able to get vaccinated for so many more things than we used to. And it is absolutely fucked that it took this...It took so many people getting this before people were like, "Oh, maybe it's just not like the modern version of hysteria," the whiny woman disease or whatever, you know. Casandra 54:20 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think there's....up until very recently, if you walked into a doctor and were like, even if you had a what's the word I'm looking for, not a prescription when they tell you what your... a diagnosis, from a previous doctor saying "I have chronic fatigue," or whatever. It's highly likely that your new doctor will say that doesn't exist. But now, suddenly, the only word...it's like the only words that they have to describe long COVID are these words like chronic fatigue and autoimmune disease? So, suddenly they have to like view them as legitimate. But studies are coming out in these like, major scientific journals like "Nature." "JANA," what's the other one? I was reading? Whatever, science. So people are taking it seriously. And that's, not exciting because I wish it didn't exist at all, but is good. Brooke 55:27 Yeah, the friend that I have. Casandra 55:28 I have a whole. Oh, go ahead. Brooke 55:30 Oh, just the friend that I have that has long COVID he has faced a lot of that struggle with this belief. I think he got COVID earlier on, or at least not recently. And yeah, definitely has faced a lot of like disbelief and extra hurdles and trying to advocate for himself and get the kind of care that he needs. Casandra 55:54 Yeah. And it's, it's I think maybe people need to understand how severe it can be. Because the umbrella of long COVID, my understanding, like, you know, they're still actively defining this term, but my understanding is that it's people who have at least two symptoms, at least, I think it's two months after the acute infection goes away. But for some people that can be so debilitating that like, they need walkers, or they need you know, it's life altering. Yeah. And I read one study that said that, as many as 4 million people are unemployed, because of long covid, which is a whole other conversation around, like, what counts as a disability in this country? And what doesn't? Like I remember when I was first diagnosed with my autoimmune disease, and was way less functional than I am now. I was like, "Why? Why would I not qualify for disability?" And the answer is that there are a lot of bureaucratic reasons, apparently. But yeah, who knows, maybe that will change too. Brooke 57:04 Part of it's because...part of the bureaucracy is that they can't take away the designation once they've given it. So, they don't want to make it too easy to label you disabled, because then you don't, you don't get to go back from being disabled. Margaret 57:22 Or we could just not means test care. And anyone who needs care, could just have care. Casandra 57:31 We don't think you're sick enough. Do you want to hear some more interesting statistics? Brooke 57:39 Always. Give me numbers. Casandra 57:42 Yeah, I know Brooks excited. So, a study in Germany recently found that people who get COVID have a 30% or had a 30% increase in risk of autoimmune diseases up to a year after their acute infection. So, there's active comorbidity there. And the people who go into COVID having an autoimmune disease, have a 25% increase in their chance of contracting additional autoimmune diseases. But that's all significantly lowered if patients are vaccinated. There's a like crunchy version of autoimmune communities where people are antivax. Margaret 58:26 Oh, that's why you're making angry eyes as soon as you.... Casandra 58:30 Well, so these statistics are particularly important, right? Margaret 58:35 I'm mad that there's been a Lyme vaccine that they just didn't finish studying. I could be wrong about this. I don't remember all the details. I read a pop science article about it. But there's like a...there's been a Lyme disease [vaccine] that they can give to dogs, but they just didn't finish studying it and people. And it's been around for like 20 years. Brooke 58:54 That's infuriating. Casandra 58:55 I don't live in Lyme country. So it's not like as big an issue here. But that's wild. Margaret 59:00 I got Lyme in Oregon. Like, where you live. But, and I and I live in fucking Lyme country and I've never gotten Lyme over here. Brooke 59:11 Wow. Yeah. Got some anyway, family in Idaho that, about 15 years ago, were battling Lyme and one of them had it since he was a teenager. Margaret 59:23 I want to fucking Lyme vaccine. It's like, I think people who play D&D are going to be smarter around risk analysis, because anyone who's played D&D knows that 5% chance of something happens means it's gonna happen. Like... Casandra 59:37 Yeah, eventually. Margaret 59:39 Yeah, exactly. And because you've had that happen over and over again, when you play this, and you also realize that anything that you get, that's like, a plus 5% safer, you always take it, right, like, and the vaccine is like a 90% safer, and people are like, "Ah, people still get sick, so therefore it's bullshit," but Like, if the vaccine made you 5% safer, and you play Dungeons and Dragons, you'll take it. Casandra 1:00:05 It's actually, it's 10%. It's 10% safer. Margaret 1:00:09 Wait, what is? Casandra 1:00:11 If you're vaccinated.... Margaret 1:00:13 Oh, about the autoimmune stuff. Okay. Casandra 1:00:15 Yeah. Margaret 1:00:15 I was thinking about like COVID itself, but yeah. Yeah. Casandra 1:00:21 I just like kind of fantasy of my high school stats class actually being taught through D&D and like, maybe I would have understood math. Margaret 1:00:27 Yeah, it like, it's, yeah, you understand probability a lot better if you like, regularly.... Casandra 1:00:33 You're actively practicing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what else do you want to know? Margaret 1:00:43 About long COVID? Casandra 1:00:45 Yeah. Margaret 1:00:46 I was hearing that....It...For most people does taper off. Is that being understood? Or is that like, like not to be like, therefore it's fine, but just like, less of a like, "Oh, God, my life is over. This thing has happened," or whatever. Like, I was under the impression that people....not that it should...people should feel like their life is over, even if they get it bad. But like, not that it's... Casandra 1:01:17 It's not debilitating? Brooke 1:01:18 It's not permanent. Margaret 1:01:19 It's not necessarily...it's not necessarily permanently debilitating to everyone who gets it and that it like a lot of people it's about a way slower getting better, but not everyone some people it's about a permanent effect. But that other people are like recovering just very slowly. Is that? Am I completely off? I've no idea. Casandra 1:01:40 I've heard that empirically. But I didn't find a study that like....I found studies acknowledging that for some people after a few months, they get better. Like even if they started out with long COVID, symptoms will get better, but I didn't actually see numbers about...and I think part of that is that it hasn't been long enough. Margaret 1:01:57 Yeah, totally. Casandra 1:01:58 And even if...so, so I keep comparing this to an autoimmune disease, but they haven't actually said like "This is in fact an autoimmune disease," you know, there are people who say it's because of mast cell activation there are people who say it's actually a neurological issue, like they're still figuring it out. But if in fact it it does function like an autoimmune disease you would need years to see how it actually impacts people because people might have a slower recovery and feel better and then you know, their immune system could be triggered by something and they'll get sick again. So yeah, we just don't know. Casandra 1:02:33 That makes sense. Brooke 1:02:36 So I might not be fatigued and coughing forever is what you're saying? Maybe. Casandra 1:02:42 Yeah. Brooke 1:02:45 Okay, that's good. Casandra 1:02:46 But if you are people are researching the efficacy of low dose Naltrexone Brooke 1:02:51 And I'll get my brain back. Maybe. Casandra 1:02:54 I'd say some percentage of it. Margaret 1:02:57 Have you tried yoga? Casandra 1:03:02 You're actually not supposed to do stretching flexibility things with Ehlers Danlos, that's the antithesis of what you're supposed to do. So, no. Margaret 1:03:14 I hope that as we talked about, people not being able to tell when people are being sarcastic, I hope that I manage that tone. Brooke 1:03:22 Okay, but I need yoga for my PTSD. Now I'm lost. Casandra 1:03:27 You could just try the breathing exercises. Brooke 1:03:30 Okay. Meditation that's the one universal good. Casandra 1:03:32 Yeah. Brooke 1:03:33 Maybe. We'll see the sleep disorder. Casandra 1:03:38 I feel I feel like what we're doing right now is like a small encapsulated version of what these like, chronic illness communities do on a larger scale. And at a certain point, I just, like, have to detach myself because I'm like, everything will harm you. Casandra 1:03:52 How about we talk about other headlines. Casandra 1:03:58 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, I found some fun ones. So, I don't remember exactly what she said. I'm sure anyone on Twitter saw, but Marjorie Taylor Greene was basically like "The country should get a divorce." Like, in my mind is civil war. That's a fun one. Margaret 1:04:19 Yeah, and I, I like that one also, because it's like people talk about like, red states, blue states, and people are like, "Oh, well, you know, Oklahoma is banning trans people. Fortunately, no trans people live there." Like, that's not fucking true. And like, and even from a like, Democrat--Republican binary, the difference between a red state and a blue state is usually about 60/40 one way or the other. Yeah, you know, and like, and that's what people aren't acknowledging. Well, there's a million things people aren't acknowledging. Casandra 1:04:50 Sort of what she wanted, she wanted to...part of that comment she made was about proposing that if people move to a red state from a blue state, they should have a period where they can't vote. which would in fact make it so that they were purely red states. Margaret 1:05:05 That's true. As a....I am not a Democrat, but I live in a red state and I am far worse than what they're afraid of with the Democrats. Yeah. Okay, my fun headline. Are we just doing like one headline back and forth for a moment? Casandra 1:05:23 Yeah. Margaret 1:05:25 Massive floods and mudslides in Brazil killed 36 people leaving 800 people homeless, displacing thousands of people, hitting multiple cities. Just massive fuck off disaster that didn't even make it to my social media headlines. Casandra 1:05:41 That makes me want to message Mena. Margaret 1:05:43 Yeah, not a bad idea to check in with her. Friends. I mean, sometimes it's like, Brazil is a very large country, right, and so like, you know, like, if someone something happens in the Pacific Northwest, and someone, my friend from another country is like, "Are you okay?" Then again, I wouldn't actually be sad at someone for checking in, even if something...whatever, anyway. Casandra 1:06:09 Federal Emergency SNAP benefits are ending March 1. Thanks, Biden. Yeah, for some people, that means the difference between like, $270 a month and $20 a month. It's like, a huge amount of money. Brooke 1:06:24 Yeah, for me, it's the difference between like, being able to just buy the foods I need and knowing there's gonna be enough versus like, having to really pay attention and budget of things to make sure I don't run out by the end of the month. Like it's not it's not even a huge amount of difference for me, but it's enough of like the difference between having to pay close attention and just being able to just buy food like normal. Casandra 1:06:49 Yeah. I've seen a few different posts by food pantry volunteers who are like, "It's already like wild in food pantries. And it's not even March 1 yet." Margaret 1:07:01 Floods in New Zealand killed for at least four people and displace 9000 people. All these headlines, it's like things show up in the head in the news when it happens. And then like this one in New Zealand, it's like, killed at least four people and there's 1300 people unaccounted for. And that article is from a while ago and so I didn't find an updated article. The fact that I didn't find it updated article probably means that 1000 More people didn't die, but was really fucking bad. Brooke 1:07:32 And then there's 9000 people that got displaced and you probably don't know what happened to them and where they went. Margaret 1:07:41 Are we still ping-ponging or should I just go with the rest of mine. Casandra 1:07:45 Oh no, I'll go Walgreens recently caved to Conservative pressure and agreed to stop selling Mifo...I get the full names of miso and mife confused but it's one of them. Margaret 1:07:59 One of the main abortion drugs. Casandra 1:08:01 Yeah, in a pro choice state. Margaret 1:08:06 Wow, in a pro choice? I didn't. Casandra 1:08:08 Oh, yes, it's Kansas, which is a pro choice state, and the you know, in case you needed the added kicker, Mifo is also used for completing miscarriages, so people will not be able to access that drug if they have a miscarriage. At least not in Walgreens. So, you know, change pharmacies if you want. Margaret 1:08:31 Legally Walgreens. Brooke 1:08:34 In Minecraft. Margaret 1:08:35 Ah, in Czarist Russia, that's what I'm pushing for is the new 'In Minecraft'. They cracked Minecraft. Now it's all about Czarist Russia. Warming oceans are cutting into the world's widest glacier. They're cutting like big trenches from the bottom into the world's widest glacier, the Thwaites, ultimately these melting glaciers over the next couple 100 years will likely raise global sea level by 10 feet. Brooke 1:09:04 Is that an Antarctic glacier? Margaret 1:09:07 I don't know. Casandra 1:09:12 I'm assured by a friend who's like a right wing researcher, who isn't right wing but does research into right wing hate groups, that this is probably going to be a non issue, but apparently and Idaho hate group on Telegram has been calling for an 'Antisemitic Day of Hate,' this Shabbat and I have friends in the areas where this is happening who have said that their synagogues are canceling services. Margaret 1:09:37 That fucking bums me out. Economic Research firm Moody's looked at US cities most at risk for combined heat, drought and sea level rise over the next 30 years,, basically like what US cities are going to be most impacted by climate change over the next couple of decades. And the losers are the Bay Area, a whole bunch of Florida, N

Do you struggle with emotional acceptance or silencing your emotions? On this episode, I welcome Dr. Alex Wills to discuss his book, Give a Fuck, Actually. He is a board-certified psychiatrist. He graduated from the Sackler School of Medicine and completed his residency and fellowship training in Hawaii with additional training from Columbia University. He is the owner of Perma Mental Health, a private psychiatric practice with offices across Idaho.   Alex's clinical days are spent using the Radical Emotional Acceptance method to help patients heal from issues ranging from past traumas to interpersonal struggles in their marriages. Give a F*CK, Actually is based on that experience. (https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Alex-Wills/199869907)   What you'll learn in this episode:   The motivation behind his book and title (2:09) Value in all emotions (4:17) Why he went down this route of psychotherapy initially (5:30) HIs typical patient demographic (6:53) His five-step approach to help people tune into their own emotional wisdom (9:56) How long he has been using this approach in his practice (20:26) How humans as a whole are trending in regards to tuning in to their feelings and emotions (21:35) Helping patients with depression bridge the gap to follow the five pillar approach to emotional wellness (24:48) Journaling and meditation (27:40) How weight training has helped him from a psychological standpoint (29:55) Rewiring your emotional brain with basic cognitive behavioral therapy (33:07) The most prevalent emotion he has been feeling regularly as of late (35:07) The biggest pushback he's gotten in regards to his methodology for leveraging one's emotions (37:56) What's in the pipeline for Dr. Wills (40:21) What children are being taught in schools in regards to handling emotions (41:18) HIs recommendations for raising children with a healthy emotional awareness (44:02)   Where to learn more about Dr. Alex Wills and his book:   Radical Emotional Acceptance   If you loved this episode, and our podcast, please take some time to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, or drop us a comment below!  

“How would I describe myself? Fuck you. You can describe me.” Fair enough. The Oscar-nominated director of 1988's essential documentary “Who Killed Vincent Chin?” before she became a NYU professor famous for drinking vodka on the rocks during class, Shanghai-born filmmaker Christine Choy is a character so incandescent that she's every bit as powerful in front of the camera as she is behind it — a fact that “The Exiles” seizes upon from the moment it starts. In their debut feature film, Ben Klein and Violet Columbus follow their former professor Christine as she tracks down three exiled dissidents from the Tiananmen Square massacre to help her find closure on an abandoned film she began shooting in 1989. "The Exiles" premiered at the 2022 Sundance Film Festival and was awarded the Grand Jury Prize for U.S. Documentary. In today's episode, Ben and Violet reflect on being mentored by Christine Choy (3:10), pitching the film premise to Christine (6:21), getting the film off the ground (10:30), replicating Christine's archival footage with modern cinematography (15:58), building the interview setup in an empty movie theater (18:12), persuading Steven Soderberg to be an Executive Producer (22:12), deciding when to screen the film (28:50), and winning the Grand Jury Prize at a virtual Sundance (32:15).