Podcast appearances and mentions of amy oscar

Åsa Poeche is a metaphysicist, witch, and shamanic practitioner. She’s an intuitive who loves mentoring people to help them achieve their goals or to help them get through struggles in life. She believes that a solid spiritual practice can very much be integrated with your personal and professional life. She uses her client’s own belief system to form the basis of the work while using her own tools, ritual and experiences to supplement. She agreed to let me record and share our first investigatory session together regarding the Love Curse I talked about in an earlier episode. Listen to Love Curse: Part 1 GUEST LINKS - ÅSA POECHE asapoeche.com HOST LINKS - SLADE ROBERSON Slade's Books & Courses Get an intuitive reading with Slade Automatic Intuition FACEBOOK GROUP Shift Your Spirits Community BECOME A PATRON https://www.patreon.com/shiftyourspirits Edit your pledge on Patreon TRANSCRIPT Asa: Okay, so I'm just going to go through at a high level with you what's happened, so for everyone to know what's going on. I received a recording from you about a week ago, almost exactly a week ago, and I listened to that the same day. So I took some notes and it's given me a basic idea of what's going on. In a normal session, I would probably have a really small outline of what the client's problem is and we agree to have a session. And we sit and we talk through the whole thing in one conversation. And as we talk through the whole thing in that conversation, I start getting an idea of what needs to happen in the session. And then maybe what we need to do going forward for both myself and the client. In this session though, like I said, I've listened to all of your story and it's so much detail in there. When I sat and listened to it, I took a lot of notes, and a lot of the notes that I take are about phrases that you're using, the way you're talking about things, probably a little bit about the emotion that's in there too but mostly the phrases because, I know you understand this quite well, if I want to talk to you about something, I don't want to introduce a different way of talking about it because then we have to do the translation thing. So if I can use words that you're using already, that's much easier for me to get you to understand what we're talking about, if I want to help you work through something, right? So a lot of notes on that and a lot on how you structured this and how this panned out in the last 28 years. So a bit of a timeline. And then when I did that, we agreed afterwards to do this session and have this discussion today. So you're coming in a little bit more blind than I am to be honest, I think. Because I have the backstory. Have you got any questions so far? Slade: No. No, I'm loving it. Let me just tell you this. I want to put this out there for you. I stress feedback so much when I am working with intuitives, and I encourage people who are learning to get a lot of that kind of feedback and everything. But I just have to say, I'm really terrible at giving emotional responses in the moment and so, I don't know that I won't, but I can see me just processing and taking a lot of stuff in. So my being quiet sometimes is process. You may get another episode out of me where I'm like, "Okay, now I've simmered on all this." And I also really want to hear what you have to say about it. And I want to preface this, I think I did a pretty good job when I recorded... No I didn't... Did I? I talked about the fact that you had answered this question in the community and I wanted, I didn't want to lock us into necessarily doing the session and releasing all that, so I left it a little light. But the reality is, when I saw your response, it hit me like it was a revelation. I thought, oh shit, you know, in a good way and in a bad way simultaneously. But I knew, well wait a minute, what would she have to say about my story? Asa: And this is really interesting for me. When you said that, I went, ohh! Because I remember answering that question and it was a shamanism question. It was in a shaminism thread I think or something, and I put that witch thing in. I hit the button and I'm going, okay, stay on topic, because now you've involved the witch thing too and that was shamanism. I was actually mad at myself because, I thought, oh I'm just leaving it because it's stupid. Right? And then all of a sudden you come and say something to me and I'm like, ohmygod, that's why I went witch curse thing because it was almost like that was for you. Slade: Yes! Asa: And I thought, okay. And it's interesting how that happens because like I said, I'm in the shaminism space most the time in Shift Your Spirits but I am probably more of a witch than a shaman to be honest with you. But I try to kind of stay in that kind of field mostly in there because there are so many other witches in there and we don't want to have too many differing opinions arguing with each other either. But yeah, that was very interesting from my own view. What you were saying just then about how you won't have any emotional responses. Normally when I start and I agree to do a session with someone, I'll start getting pictures and I've got power animals coming in and it's like I'm doing okay. So this week I've had nothing, and I'm like, uh.. okay. There's no messages, there's no kind of imagery, nothing. So it's very, very quiet. There's no noise and I'm going, okay so what I'm dealing with is someone then who will process it probably after. And then also, you probably have a lot of background work done already. So really I don't have to get a picture to help you too much with this one. That's already sitting in there and it's kind of ready to go I think. This morning, actually, I was just waking up. That's the only time when I started getting some imagery coming in and I was ready to go now. And that would've been a couple of hours before. That was about 7:00 in the morning or so. So it was very interesting for me in that sense and I was very, very focused, and that makes sense with you. There's not a lot of going off on a tangent. This is what we're here for today and this is what we're dealing with. With a lot of clients, I have problems kind of saying, "We're focusing on this now. Don't worry about the chicken in the corner there. Look at this one here." It's been an interesting week in that sense. It's been very, very quiet and it's fine. And that's a good thing for me as well. One of the other things that we've really got working for us in this session too is we share a common language in witchcraft. So I try to speak to a language the client understands like I said. So if I'm treating someone whose got a Christian worldview, I will probably use that terminology because it just helps, you know? What I'm going to do - I'm going to describe this story like I got it, very briefly, and you used the witchcraft stuff. We talk about cursing and stuff and spells. You also had some psychology in there, so Maslow's hierarchy. I love it actually because it's quite interesting. But I'm also going to include some shaminism stuff because if we do go to air with this one, a lot of people are interested in this as well, so I'm just gonna give that perspective as well. You're okay with all of that? Slade: Yeah. I mean, the one thing that we have in common, that all the people that are attracted to our tribe, is the eclecticism. It's like we all just have all this stuff and I think that the diversity is what we have in common, which, it's a weird contradiction. I'm actually the one person who loves it if you mix metaphors and bring in a bunch of different symbols and, you know, I'll keep up. Asa: Yeah. So we know the sorcerer who cast this curse on you because it's you, right? It's really good. You don't have to sort of try to understand how these happened, because we know the whole mechination/machination (7:59) of this... And we also know that you're willing to dissolve this. You really want to do the work now. You're not afraid to go in there and do it. So that's also really fantastic. I'm just going to ruffle my papers a bit. So when you were 22, you cast a spell to protect yourself, to protect something that was very, very valuable to you. And you didn't want that to be threatened again. So you said, "This will NEVER happen to me again." And the feeling emotion was, as you said, an anger that was so strong that it made you cry, basically. And you were mad and hurt and wounded that you had been made to make a choice. And then you reinforced that with a mantra that you kept on using. I think that's correct, right? Slade: Umhmm. Asa: Yeah. And you said, basically, please let me have that gift. And I'll give away everything else, but I want THAT. And that's a bargain that you're striking, right? So you made the bargain, you cast the spell, and you said that you lost your creativity a little bit through your 20s. So it wasn't until you were 29 when you met Seth that that kind of, the writing came back again. Yeah? Slade: Yes. That is correct. Asa: And this is interesting for me because you mention Maslow's hierarchy, and I don't like to prove Maslow right, but you said, and I've had these thoughts myself as well, when you think you've skipped a step, right? So the belongingness and the love needs, you're going, I feel like I've skipped that step. Seth is probably one of those people, he's provided that fraternal love, you know? And you actually cast a spell to say, I want to keep that. I want to keep that belongingness and that love from him because I know that's going to sustain me. So you've had that piece, in a way. And you've even sort of gone, I NEED to keep that. I need to have it in my life to be able to do this. And that kind of makes it interesting too because you've actually gone and kind of counteracted your own curse a little bit, about 10 years later after this and said, "This is what I want to happen." And you said you came to being 39 and that's when it really took off, the writing, and now 10 years later you've gone and "I want the whole package. I want everything now." It's probably because you've showed up, your gift is pretty strong now. You have an audience. You have an outlet. And this is very much a part of you. We feel like you can let that in. Apart from the stars being aligned, of course, in the right way as well. We're ready to do the work now. So, knowing that, I would like to know how you feel about knowing that you've kind of already started rolling it back a little bit? Slade: You know what? That actually feels like a huge relief, and when you said, "Seth represents the fraternal layer of Maslow's pyramid", I thought, ohmygosh, he did! Like, I sort of, I didn't entirely skip that step after all. So that was an epiphany for me right here, like 30 seconds ago, I'm thinking, oh, you're right! I didn't skip it because I got a new kind of love with him that was really more important than some of the brittleness that goes along with romantic love. You know what I mean? There's some heavier love that exists on that platform in that pyramid altogether, as a group. And it didn't occur to me, like, oh! You got one of the really big ones. So that's interesting. Asa: And it's a really important one because I think, that's probably one of those loves that are more stable, that you can trust that they will generally be there for life maybe even, because you have a very strong bond in that, it's more of a brotherly love I guess. And you two seem to be very close anyway and neither of you want to let go of each other so at least that bond there is strong and safe. I think when I look at where you want to end up, and hopefully he's listening out there now, we should be really nice, this will be a person that totally says, that gift that you have, that you protect, that might be one of the things that attracts him to you. That might be one of the things that he would like to protect too. So if you think about it like that, it's probably not as threatening anymore. The person that you're going to attract now is not going to be jealous of your gift. They're going to be older. They're going to be more mature. And they're going to be probably saying, I really like this about Slade. His creativity and his writing and all this stuff he's doing. Because it's so much part of who you are now. Whereas when you were 22, you were still forming that personality. You know you wanted that in your life but you probably didn't know exactly what it was going to look like. You're probably able to structure your life better now. To say, "Okay, this is my writing time and this is my personal time and this is my... you know. So you don't have to spend as much time protecting that territory because it will probably be part of the life you'll have with this person. Slade: Mmm... Asa: Yeah? Slade: Nice. Asa: Does that make sense? Slade: Yeah. Asa: So the mantra that you used, you remember that, right? You remember what that was. Slade: Oh god, yeah. Asa: Okay. I'm not going to ask you to say what it is. But have a think of what the counteract to that is. Because we probably want to have a mantra now too that we go and say, this is what we're dissolving this with. We're dissolving this. We're making space for this person. I want to let this peace in. Because as we do that, we have obviously, you disassociated, basically if you made that happen that day in the shower, you sent a piece of yourself away. And it's an interesting thing from a shamanic perspective. If we have soul loss, normally it happens through trauma. We're unaware of it most of the time. It might be like 30 years later we come across a shaman and go, you've got soul loss, and we don't know how it happened. We know we've had an accident but we don't know exactly how that sped away or how much of it. But you know exactly what piece you sent away. It's a conscious process and you've gone through and said, "No. That's not.. I'm not gonna let that lead me astray. Because my gifts, my writing, is so important to me that that part I'll give up. I'll give up love for this." It makes it easier to countersay, you know, we know exactly what we're looking for. We know exactly when it was sent away. We know exactly how much time we've spent keeping it away. And we also know we let part of it back in again. So there's a little part in this romantic love thing that we're looking for now. And there is a piece, right? I don't think, from my perspective, what I saw this morning, I don't think I'll have to go and get it for you. I think we need to do some work around getting you to sort of lure it back, letting it back into your life again, because if I look at what you're saying, I don't think you've done the prep work for it yet because you haven't been ready. So now we're going to do the work of saying, okay, you know what? I'm going to get used to the thought of my gifts being safe and secure, and me being able to let another person into my space. And it's not going to be a threat. Because I know I can protect it. Right? Does that make sense? Slade: Yes. Asa: So the question for you then is, what do you feel needs to happen for you to get the love space? Slade: Oh.... God that's a good question. Well, I mean, part of it's a choice, right? Part of it is just a decision. I mean, I'm kind of that person that really has no problem believing that I'm pushing all the buttons because I prefer to have it that way. But, you know, it's a dance between me choosing it and also seeing something that I can trust reflected back, you know what I mean? I think that there's a part of me... I'm very, very willing to choose to let that back in. But I think until I see that... Maybe it is the person. Maybe it is a person. Until I see that person in the flesh and I experience it, and I know, I think then I'll exhale. Does that make sense? It's like there's a part of me that's going to be holding my breath. I want to say that some of the things that I mentioned about Deena reading my chart for me, some of the things that came up working with her, which has been in a way a little bit of a preparation, was that I was getting messages through people over the last 9 months or so, I've been attracting people who have these little bits and pieces of evidence. They're not the person, but it's like they're like showing me things that I probably didn't really think existed in people. Asa: Yeah. Slade: So that has softened me up and made me go, Oh, well wait a minute! It's enough that it feels like a message to me. Asa: Yeah. And I think that, from my point of view, it's almost like, and I'm going to use, for lack of a better term, the Universe is serving you up examples, right? And you get this very, I like that, not so much that one, but that one there... Oh! Never knew people could be like that. So it opens the possibility of kind of assembling this picture of what you want and how they make you feel. You go, I like how that person made me feel. But how they treated me and what they said to me and what they liked about me and how they responded to me. And that kind of opens the possibility a little bit more. You're going, okay, now I can see that I can actually want these things because they do exist. Right? Slade: Yes. Asa: And it's kind of like you, but you have to be open enough to see that, because, you know, you can drive past 15 restaurants and say, "There's no Vietnamese restaurants in this neighbourhood," and you've just passed 3 because you're not looking. You're looking at something else and you're being angry about something or you're being worried about something, right? So you close down. You've already started kind of going shopping a little bit. Window shopping. And going, okay, what's actually out there? So you're looking more out now than you're looking in. And saying, okay, now i'm going to have a look outside. And it feels like people are coming at you kind of like all of a sudden you’re being presented with these things but you're actually looking. You're actually paying attention. You're starting to notice these things and the more it happens the more it starts. You're going, Ooo, ahh, okay... I see! And, I think, yeah, with you having a presence out there where your work is getting recognition as well, on start, the person you're going to meet is going to have some sort of idea. And even if they don't, that's so much part of your personality now that it's going to come up very quickly, right? You're not going to tolerate anybody who's got a problem with it. Your main focus is, you know what? I am stable in my life and I'm adding this. It's like gravy on my potatoes. I've got my potatoes. I'm going to put gravy on them now. That's going to be good gravy. I want good gravy, right? That makes it easier because you can kind of turn around and work with yourself and say, you know what? I trust myself now. I trust myself to be able to say, You know what? I can put the brakes on if it doesn't feel right. I know when to stop. I know I have my boundaries. I know that this is my thing that I do that I'm not going to give up. This person has to be willing to be part of it. And I almost get a feeling, I hate doing this to be honest, but I'm going to say it. I almost get a feeling that the person coming will be very supportive of this. This will be something they treasure too, right? And this is what you want. You want someone that says, "I really like this about Slade. I'm fascinated by it. I might not be involved in it but this is something I treasure too. Because he treasures it. That's important to me because it's important to Slade." And that's kind of what you want too. Slade: Yeah, I don't need a fan. I don't need anybody to be so involved with it that they feel that they have to consume all of it. I think that's an interesting thing that comes up a lot is, sometimes you attract people who are attracted to the work persona, so I almost trust it more if it's someone who is like, "Oh, that's really cool that you do that. It's not really like my thing, but I think it's awesome that you do it." And end of story. Which, interestingly, is how my family is. There's a kind of weird, like, super amount of support and they're not necessarily paying a lot of attention to it. Asa: Yeah. If you look at it from the point of view of saying, I’m been in engineering most of my working life, in my family, we go, yeah that's alright, but they don't want to talk about it all day, right? Yeah, you do this and we do this. It's really good that you're successful with it and you're doing well and you're enjoying it. But that's what it is. It's a job. Slade: One of the biggest turnoffs to me is when somebody that I'm kind of interested in going for a coffee with, or a date, or whatever, comes at me with the offer to have a really deep philosophical conversation. Asa: No, no, no, no, stop! Slade: Please don't make me do that! Not on my off time! Asa: It's not work! Yeah, I know, and you want that kind of thing where the both of you have a life and then you grow and then you grow this thing that you have together with the relationship. That's a nice kind of.... And I think both of you and I are at that age now that we can understand that you have to have yourself. And then you make this relationship together with someone else. That's the kind of sweet spot that you want. Where are you at now with thinking about how easy it's going to be for you to kind of stop thinking that you're not cursed? Slade: Well, you know I said I probably would process a lot of things not in the moment. And that's not true. I'm actually kind of jotting down notes of things that are almost kind of epiphanies as you say them. It was funny because there was a realization I had at some point in this conversation, I made the note that when I was with Richard who was my first person in the story, I actually had a situation happen with him where I had developed a kind of physical violence as a way of defending myself as a child and as a teenager, and I got through high school by being very wiling to fight anybody that tried to victimize me in any way. And I remember being in a horrible fight with Richard and him saying to me, "You don't have to go there anymore." I was still in this mode, this teen warrior mode, there was a part of me that was always on a school bus ready to take on a bully. I carry that all the way up until my early 20s and I was doing that in my relationship with him. And I remember him saying, "You don't have to do that anymore. It's just not necessary." And as you were talking, kind of even about the Seth thing, realizing like, oh, the Maslow thing that I thought I was missing, I really wasn't missing. I actually had a piece of that. And I realized when you said being able to release the curse, and believe that you don't have to live like that anymore. I flashed back to that relationship with Richard when he told me that. What a huge revelation it was in that moment to realize like oh, I'm in this super aggressive mode that's just not required anymore and I let it go. So in answering the question, where am I in feeling like I can kind of let this go and everything, I think one of the things that I most was interested in talking to you about, because we always need someone outside our own head to look at the situation, and that's really what you're doing. There's always this fear that there's something that I'm missing. Now you've already told me a couple of things that I felt like, Oh, I was missing that. So I think one of my biggest questions is, what am I not seeing? What am I beating myself up about that I need to stop? What am I being stubborn about? What am I being really melodramatic about? I feel like the whole thing is really melodramatic. I am trusting you to tell me that kind of truth, you know? Like what do you see me doing, because you've known me for years, you know my work, you know we're friends, we message each other a lot, so you are in a good position to recognize this as a thread within my personality. Maybe you see evidence in other ways that I handle myself. So I'm here in a very raw and vulnerable way, saying, What am I missing here? Asa: I think, and I'm the kind of person who, I like to get everything out on the table and I'll pick the pieces that I can do something with, and you're an interesting person because you have pieces that you've put out in front of me and then there's pieces where I'm going, Oh, there's more, there's more. And I'm going, he's not quite ready to either see them himself or let me know about them yet. This is what I’m saying, I’m thinking — We're having a conversation now and then you're probably going to go away to process and then you go, okay I'm going to get rid of these pieces now. And that's really cool. That's okay because we don't go through this in a session basically. We just, it wouldn't be feasible I mean, we've probably spoken for half an hour or so now and we've gotten quite far, right? We've had a few points where you went, Ah, okay, I see this now. Which means that you as a storyteller, you'll start re-telling your stories slightly differently. So we're going back, if you want to be kind of melodramatic about it, we're going back to the past and we're going, okay, I'm seeing now things that I've done to kind of start undoing this. Seeing how things weren't quite the way I thought they were, and I'm wasn't quite as doomed with this curse as I may have thought, because there's things that have happened that I've shown myself that I'm actually capable of starting to unravel this as well. There's something still that's kept you in that space. You're going, I'm not quite ready to trust this yet. And that's the piece that we probably, it's probably going to take a little bit more, to say, okay, what is it down there that still makes you go, "I'm not quite sure yet. I'm seeing all these opportunities but I'm not quite ready to step over to the other side and go, I'm free! I'm ready to do this." Almost 30 years ago, 3 decades. It's a long, long time. It's a really, really long time. And the work that I'd like to see happen now is, we sure have to decide where the stuff that's in your consciousness, that you can literally go, okay, I got it, I understand that I have partially let love back in. I did that at 29, so ease the pressure there, took the foot off the brakes a little bit. And then whatever else is happening and you really, you realize your dream. You have realized your dream of using your gift and it becoming very much a part of who you are. So you can go, Ooo! Don't need to protect that as much. It can protect itself now. It's grown up. It's a grown up now. Slade: Yeah. Asa: It's not a baby that I have to defend. It's not a kitten that I found somewhere I have to defend. It's a really good thing that's happening. It's kind of getting your head around them, saying, that's not part of my truth. My truth is this. And then kind of extending that, if that makes sense. So, yeah. Slade: So is the shoot-the-moon thing my new mantra? Asa: If you want it to be! Now this has got to work for you, right? But it's also the picture you get with shoot-the-moon, I mean, what does that mean? Does it mean I can have it all, I can live, you know what? I'm gonna swear now. I earned that shit. I have earned that shit, right? I can have it, and I don't have to pay any dues to have all that. Literally. I worked my ass off to get to where I am today. And now I want. I want the extra bit. I want that and it's gonna be good because I'm not taking half-baked, right? I want that good part. And I deserve that. I can have that. There are so many cliches saying you deserve that, but you know, literally, you DO, right? You deserve to have that in your life. You can have it, you know? There's nothing, and I hate to say this, but nothing's stopping you but literally there isn't anything except for ourselves. Our minds put limitations on things all the time. And we can look at people, I'm going to mention Trump, who's got no limitations, he just goes, "I'm just going to have it all," and you sit there and be like, how can you even be like that? But he's kind of the opposite end of the scale, where he thinks he deserves everything, you know? I am the best. I'm going, give me some of what he's got, because I need that in my life because I could literally stretch myself a bit and understand that I don't need to limit myself out of fear so much again. And you have very little to fear in my mind, right? Except for the story that you tell yourself. Slade: Yeah. And you mentioned something at the beginning of the conversation that I do when I'm doing assessments for people working with their intuition or intuitive development. I do an assessment and the assessment is very much a, it's not even about the symbolism. It's about the words that they use when they're describing the symbolism that reveal subtext. So I was wondering if there's anything, you said you know when you were listening to the story that you noticed certain phrases and things that I said. Was there anything that stuck out to you that was telling about the way that I spoke about it? Asa: Yeah. It's very heavy on the defense, right? I'm under threat. Survival words are used and there's incredibly strong emotion in the beginning. There's anger that makes you cry. It's not even rage. It's that, I am really hurt. I am so hurt and I can't believe that this person made.. I'm so hurt that he attacked the one thing that I treasure the most. You know what it is? It's a rejection of you, right? He's taken the thing that was most precious to you and rejected it. I don't want that. I don't like it. I hate it. You need to stop it. So this is an attack on YOU. Like, literally. Go stab you in the heart, right, because it's Slade's baby that he's trying to kill. And it's very much a survival threat to me. If you lost that part at that age, if you had to give it away, your life would have been incredibly different. If you'd said, Okay, no, I'm gonna give that away for Richard, you would have given up your whole life. You would've a hunk of it. Slade: Ugh. Gross. Asa: Right? I couldn't count on him in the way I could count on myself. Slade: Yeah. Asa: And you are a person who relies very, very much on yourself. Slade: Umhmm. Asa: And I see sometimes, please don't take this the wrong way, I see sometimes you have almost literally hard time reaching out saying to people, "You know what? Take care of that for me." Slade: Yeah. Asa: As much as, you've got us girls in the Shift Your Spirits community to help you out there, the High Priestesses, as you like to call us. But at the same time, I can sometimes tell it's like you find it a little bit hard to let go of the reins. When I look, I'm going, this is perfect because that's like a training ground for you to say, I can actually step back, and go, It's probably going to be okay. Slade: Yes! Asa: Yeah. This kind of understanding that you are literally sitting in a space now where you've got it really good. You've taken such good care of Slade, right? And you've set him up in a space where he really likes to be. He gets to write. He gets to do his business. He gets to run his own days. He can plan his own life. He can do a little bit of extra things like travel and stuff, so you've taken really good care of yourself. But it's letting someone else in to that space now, because you're going, I don't want you to mess with that space. This is my space. I've made it really good. And I have a similar problem for myself, to be honest with you. I do the same thing, right? I'm going, I made my space. I don't want someone to come in with dirty, muddy shoes to walk through it, right? But we probably have to expect people to, to some extent, mess up our space a little bit. And learning to be okay with that. And learning to be okay with the fact that they don't fully understand our space, and you know, if we're lucky, we'll come together and we'll learn about each other's space and we'll create a better space out of that. Because we'll learn from them and learn from us. But it's really tricky to get past that hurdle, going, I'm really comfortable in my bubble. I feel really secure, and understanding that I'm not threatened. Does that make sense? Slade: Umhmm. Well and you identified something that's been a real theme for me within the past year or so, which was really in the last 2 years, was going from this sort of one-man band, this solo episode where I control everything, you know, not episode, sort of machinery, where I don't have to rely on anybody else. But I can also be a complete slave driver to myself if I choose, you know? In a way that I could never be to anyone else. I can only do that to me. Asa: Yeah. Slade: There's a lot of hesitation, not even in letting other people help me, but in fear of like, what a tyrant I can be if I went in the other direction. Like Trump, you know? There has been this theme of collaboration and community, and the platform going from being about me to being about all the other people who come on this show. It's sharing the stage, and also sharing the space with the people who are listening and participating. And hosting without having a party of 1. It's like, it's not me watching Netflix with the cats. It's me allowing there to be a keg party in the backyard. So that is definitely, like you said, having you guys that are my social media moderators and administrators, has put me back in a situation where I'm practicing being a manager of other people but, you know, in the context of letting other people's gifts work for me. I mean, the reason why I chose you guys, is because you can do all these things without me having to tell you how to do it. Because I trust you guys and you're all smart and capable in your own way. Sometimes I'm just constantly having to remind myself that, like, it's okay to let everyone else do what they do. So that's been something that is opening up for me. I wanted to say just for your own personal feedback, I've got a double Scorpio wrapped around this Leo, so when you start to, when you feel like there's something he's not telling me, of course there is, you know? I've got like a secret bat girl wall with a button with that cat suit hiding somewhere. And I definitely see that as kind of being part of my persona and all the astrology in the world tells me about the secrets that I keep, and my relationship with my shadow, and all that kind of stuff. So some of that may be kind of private or whatever, but I wanted to kind of end the conversation today, and you and I will continue with this conversation, because like you said, I'm going to go sleep on it, process, and, oh man! And I'll share that with you and with everyone that I can, but for the people who are listening, I wanted you to know that I put out such a personal episode, to the point that I thought, is this really so indulgent that nobody else is going to be able to relate to it? I got such overwhelming feedback from people writing and telling me what their version of this felt like, and realizing, ohmygod, I've done this to myself too, in different aspects of their lives, so it was really cool. So in speaking to them, and a lot of them I kind of wrote behind the scenes and I said, "Stay tuned! I have something coming." And I think you would find, if you work with some of these people and you may, because they may contact you and be like, "Ooo I want to have this conversation", that they all come with a self awareness and a capability and a bag of tricks and all this stuff too. And so, as you were talking, I was kind of making some notes about what this process is about, because I think that I believe at the root of it all, that if we put a curse on ourselves, we can certainly reverse it ourselves. So I think some of the things that I noticed, to kind of put out there for others who are thinking, how can I process this for myself, there was the idea of where it came from, obviously, what is the language around this curse? Who did it? Who is the source? And it's probably themselves. The idea of having a sort of reverse mantra, some other kind of language just to start to reinforce, this is a framing exercise, right? Asa: Yeah. Slade: The idea of the soul loss, when that happened, what the events were surrounding that, and then this idea of prep work around what you're missing, when did this happen, what kind of language are you using around it? Maybe even take the time to do what I did, which is to write your story out as if you're going to send it, and look for those words. You know, what emotions are in your story? What story are you really telling here? So I think it could be really helpful for people to look at some of those components for themselves, and they may have some revelations of their own. But it also would be very helpful, if they're going to do a session with you or someone who does this kind of work, to have some of those answers ready. Asa: Yeah. I'll shortcut the process a little bit too, but I have to say, most people are not as easy as you are. You're very self-aware and I think you understand, with language for instance, when I looked at, I've probably got about 6 pages of language that you were using and phrases, and I'm going, this is all survival mode, right? It's all about, I am so threatened, you know? I'm just gonna defend myself and I'm out there. And it makes sense now what you said about like in your teens you were ready to fight all the time. And that kind of kicked back in a little bit. And it might have been physical but all of a sudden, you are in a very high state of alert and it had to be protected at all costs. There was like no other way here. I have to protect this at ALL costs. I have to chop bits of myself off. Those bits can't be trusted so they need to go away. If I look at it this way, going forward probably what I would say is, I might turn around and say to you, I would like to do a soul retrieval for you eventually. If it doesn't spontaneously come back — it’s a pretty big part — but I think we can do the groundwork first. It always helps before you do that kind of thing, right? And also doing their reversal mantra will fortify the base that we're having here. So that when that comes back, it'll be... And also another thing is, that's the 22 year old part of you. That kind of needs to mature as well. That's a part of you that hasn't had a lot of attention. So it's working through that as well. Sometimes it happens quickly and sometimes people have enormous problems. We're kind of getting that part of it back in again because it's not functioning at the same level as you are. That's another thing as well. You're saying people can do the work. I was recommended to talk to someone because it is, like you say, people see things that you don't see. They hear you say things that you might not hear because you're so used to going over it in your head. And finding those patterns for you and saying, "Okay, this is where I see the work happening." It's funny what you were saying, the double Scorpio, I have very few clients where I'm going... It's not a wall but I'm going, there are secrets here. And I can push around and go, okay, I want to know what's behind that, but that's a bit rude. And I'm going, we had that discussion before because I said to you, "Do you want to know everything? And do I have permission to do this?" So literally you've given me permission to do it but it's not useful for me to come back at you and go, this, this and this. Because you'll be going, "Uh oh. Now I feel threatened again." So I don't want you to retreat back there. And it might not be things so useful for me to know anyway because those are your secrets, right? They're there for a reason. You want to be mystical and stuff, that's okay! The stuff that's come out today, it's the beginning. It's a journey. We'll talk again about this for sure and see what's new. And you are the kind of person who'll go away and you'll mull this over. And then probably I'll get a message, "What about this?" And that's perfect for me because I'm going, okay, now I can see what's happening between, we chat for a bit and what's the next step after that as well. So yeah. Slade: Awesome. I thank you because I definitely have at least two pieces that I, like I'm writing notes by longhand on a piece of paper and I've got these little stars by these kind of 'aha' moments and I'm like, OH! Part of my brain is already running off, trying to unpack those and unravel them and go, wait a minute! But for anybody out there listening who might be interested having heard this, for this reason or for any other, you know, who really resonates with you, tell us where we can find who you are, where we can find you online, and how to get in touch with you. Asa: So I've got a website. I'm on Facebook obviously, Asa Kristina Poeche. I've also got a Page on Facebook that's Asa Poeche. A webpage that's AsaPoeche.com. My services that are offered there currently are a session called, I call them mentoring sessions, a one-on-one session, because I don't like to call them healing sessions. I tend to sit in the space where I coach people more and get them to kind of come to realization through a discussion that we have. And I hope that kind of came through in what we did here now. It's more effective if I get you to solve your problem rather than me trying to fix you. I think sometimes you have these, I call them Tony Robbins moments, where you go, "Ohmygod! That's fantastic!" And then two days later you're like, "I'm not feeling the momentum anymore. And that's an important thing too, I find. I think when we have a session like this, you go away more pumped and sometimes you just lose momentum. Anyway, going back to my stuff, I'll do a lot of shamanic work but I think at heart I would probably call myself a hedge witch, which means I sit in this space where I'm very much working in the other world, tapping into a lot of beings around people and getting messages. I've got decades of studying metaphysical stuff, about two decades in shaminism. Yeah. That was a really, really messed up explanation of what I do, but ... Slade: It was very authentic. Well, one of the things that I... I, just for the record, and you know this but for the rest of the audience, I've been wanting to have you on my show since I had a show. Obviously those of you who are in the Automatic Intuition community, who are strong in the Shift Your Spirits community, meaning you produce a lot of content and you do a lot of teaching in the group, you're an active participant, you're a moderator, a lot of people will recognize your material from there and the interesting thing is, I don't just want the show to be like, oh, here's another intuitive and they do sessions and they're going to tell us about their sessions and here they are. It's like there's an added bit of extra expectation for you guys. I want you guys especially to have a really special introduction to everyone, because if it's someone that I've never met before, I can ask them a lot of curious questions about who they are and what they do. It comes from a really genuine place. But in order for you and I to have a genuine conversation, if we need to do something like this, it needs to be extra juicy. I was so excited when I saw your post in the community where you answered that question and you use a little bit of that witchy language and you caught my eye. I thought, oh wait a minute! So the idea to do this whole two-episode so far conversation came to me in that moment and I was so excited that you were willing to do this with me. Because it's a real tightrope act for both of us. You know what I mean? Asa: It is. And this is my first podcast too I've recorded for. So it's a big thing, right? Slade: Ohmygosh, is it? Asa: Yeah. I usually don't like listening to myself at all. It's one of those things … Sometimes you'll have the conversation with someone and you bounce off each other really easily. And sometimes when you have a client, it's like, are they there? Slade: Yes. Asa: Are you alive? Slade: Yeaaah. Asa: You always kind of end up worrying a little bit about that as well. I suppose, also, I have to say is, I always say I don't like teaching but that's probably not true because I also mentor people. You probably have to nudge me to have a few conversations with me before I take you on as a student. But it's probably one of the things I find most rewarding actually, and it's mostly helping people grow. And I do these also in business and professional space where I coach and mentor people to integrate spirituality into their professional and business lives. Becaue I think we can do with a lot more of that in the work place as well, and there are a lot of people that really struggle in that corporate environment. How can I be more spiritual in that kind of environment? And it's possible, right? So that's another thing that I do as well. Slade: Well I'm going to close with a shoutout to Amy Oscar, who gave me the term 'illuminated conversations', and I think that both you and I love to work in that capacity, right? We want a participating client, we want a collaborator, and we want someone to have these really beautiful deep conversations. So thank you for having one of those with me around this. I will keep you posted about my epiphanies and we'll probably hear some follow up for everyone else who's listening. So, again, thanks for doing it. Asa: Thank you for having me on.

Jesse was the first person to suggest to me that some of the benevolent strangers we encounter are not even human, but incarnated guardians. Corporeal angels. This is a continuation of Stranger Angels: Part 1. If you haven’t heard the story about my weird European stalker who looked like a mannequin, then hit pause and go listen to Episode 08. It will make this sequel a lot more satisfying... I met Jesse in 2002, exactly ten years after that trip to Europe. I was thirty-two years old. I had lived through a really shitty Saturn Return that nuked all the structure in my world and left me in a ditch that I would spend most of my thirties crawling out of. At the time, I was recovering from a serious illness and working on rebuilding the basics of third-dimensional existence — you know: job, place to live — I had no way of knowing that I was about a year away from a major Trip Down the Rabbit Hole that would deliver me to some different level of identity and I suppose a reorientation to my spiritual path — events that climaxed with an intervention by my guides, an ultimatum regarding my sense of purpose, and ultimately the creation of Shift Your Spirits and the work for which you know me. MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE Jung and Tarot: An Archetypal Journey by Sallie Nichols Conscious Evolution: Awakening the Power of Our Social Potential by Barbara Marx Hubbard The Ones Who Glow by Slade Roberson Angels 101 by Doreen Virtue A Book of Angels by Sophy Burnham An Angel for Every Day by Angela McGerr Sylvia Browne's Book of Angels Angel of the Revelation by William Blake phylum/ phyla — the different types or levels of angels: Thrones and Principalities, Dominions, Virtues, Carrions, Powers, Seraphim, Cherubim, Archangels, Angels asher — your personal guardian angel (body guard) silver cord technician — the angel who manages your silver cord connection to spirit The Books of Enoch Mother Mary Speaks to Us by Brad Steiger and Sherry Hansen Steiger Quantum Spirituality — this is not the book I remember. I may have the title wrong... Quantum Theology by Diarmuid O'Murchu *I think this may actually be the book and I have remembered the title incorrectly. ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED AS Jesse : Stranger Angels - Part 3 Jesse : Stranger Angels - Part 4 The Paranormal Memoirs Are you new to podcasts? How to subscribe to my podcast free HOST LINKS sladeroberson.com Get an intuitive reading with Slade Download a free ebook and meditation Automatic Intuition Patreon.com Support this Show TRANSCRIPT Okay, so this episode is a part 2 - it’s a continuation of last week's episode called - you guessed it - Stranger Angels part one. If you haven’t heard the story about my weird European stalker who looked like a mannequin, then go ahead and hit pause right now I promise it will make this sequel a lot more satisfying if you go listen to that episode first. Part one is Episode 8. Jesse was the first person to suggest to me that some of these benevolent strangers we encounter are not even human, but incarnated guardians. Although I had experiences as a kid that involved angel sightings, spirit guides, spirit animals, ghosts, elementals ... I would never have included that man John, who had followed me around on my trip to Europe, in a similar kind of paranormal category. Over the years, I even found myself relating the story of the almost-mugging — and, for some reason, excluding the part about John entirely. Until my conversations with Jesse, I would have lumped these strangers into quirky, environmental synchronicities. Let me explain what I mean by environmental synchronicity — I’m talking about these patterns I observe that seem to emerge from random chaos, and feel somehow “less personal” — just glitches or glimpses of cosmic machinery at work that don’t feel “targeted” toward me in a significant, meaningful way. I’ll give you a couple of recent examples: A few months ago, just before Christmas, I was standing in the checkout line at the supermarket behind some random stranger. Nothing noteworthy about that, except that, the very next day, in a completely different part of the city, I was waiting to place an order at the cafe, and the same person got in line behind me. Never saw him before; never saw him again after… Another example of this kind of environmental synchronicity... Last month, I was out running errands. I stopped to get gas and a car pulled up at the pump next to mine. I noticed it because it was the exact same make, model, year, and color as my own car. (You always notice when you see “your” car on the road, right?) So, I went all over town that day — the bank, the post office, the bookstore, the cafe, and eventually, a few hours later, criss-crossed my way to an enormous shopping mall in an area of the burbs I generally avoid and only visit about once a year if I absolutely have to — I needed to exchange a gift. I found a group of empty parking spaces and pulled into one. As I was getting my bag out of the trunk, a car pulled into the space next to mine — same make, model, year, and color - AND - it was that same exact car and driver from earlier in the day. In that asphalt sea of parking options, not to mention in a medium-size city — we’re talking about a quarter of a million people -- what are the chances? So, these are not Big Deal experiences, right? — just things that make you go “Hmm… What was that all about it?” Never saw them before; never saw them after. I suppose it’s some fairly irrelevant mathematical remainder in the clockwork of divine timing. Anyway, that’s the kind of compartment in my mind where I might have placed the story about John the European mannequin stalker, just tagged with a greater-than-average significance and a Big Mystery stamp… At least, that’s how I thought of it before I met Jesse. …My name is Slade Roberson For over ten years, I’ve been a professional intuitive and the author of the blog Shift Your Spirits, where I try to write about spirituality with fewer hearts and flowers than most New Age blather. I also mentor emerging intuitives, psychics, and healers in a program called Automatic Intuition. Before we go any further, just a quick FYI — I’ve added a new feature to the show. For years now, before I send out a blog post, I try to tune in and listen for something that will speak directly to you, that will serve as a message. Like an oracle. And I get email replies, every week, with tons of you saying that the post was a direct answer to a question you had. It’s really cool, and I want to bring that phenomenon to the podcast… At the very end of this episode, after my final links and credits, I have a channeled message for you. Be thinking about a question or concern you have. It might be answered by the show itself. But hold it in your mind and I’ll come back on at the end and leave you with something extra… Back to the story... I met Jesse in 2002, exactly ten years after that trip to Europe. I was thirty-two years old. I had lived through a really shitty (shittier-than-most) Saturn Return that nuked all the structure in my world and left me in a ditch that I would spend most of my thirties crawling out of. At the time, I was recovering from a serious illness and working on rebuilding the basics of third-dimensional existence — you know: job, place to live — I had no way of knowing that I was about a year away from a major Trip Down the Rabbit Hole that would deliver me to some different level of identity and I suppose a reorientation to my spiritual path — events that climaxed with an intervention by my guides, an ultimatum regarding my sense of purpose, and ultimately the creation of Shift Your Spirits and the work for which you know me. Back in 2002, I was not operating from even so much as the intention of a “higher vibration” — I was just surviving. (Barely.) I was working in Chattanooga (where I grew up) at a temporary, low-paying job while searching for a full-time position with benefits, preferably in a counseling environment, where I could also work toward my Master’s degree. I decided I wanted to move back out of state, to Atlanta, a larger city where I had lived before and where there were more opportunities. Fortunately, my temporary job gave me Mondays off, so I could arrange to do interviews on at least that one weekday, and travel down on the Sundays before. All the back-and-forth was expensive; gas eating up most of my funds. The weeks of job hunting were turning into months. Many of my friends and contacts in Atlanta had moved away; even more of them were estranged. I had one friend from college who was generous with her hospitality, who I felt I could impose on to some degree, but I was going to rely on her heavily for a place to stay at a longer duration of time once I’d actually secured a position and could then start that second stage of relocating to a place of my own. I’d already worn out my welcome with more than one person. I told everyone, including my parents, that I was spending those Sunday nights in motels; more often than not, armed with pre-ironed interview clothes, a lint-roller, resumes, and my cell phone, I slept in my car so I’d have enough gas money to return home. (I could sometimes simply get up before dawn in Chattanooga and drive down but the morning rush hours and unpredictable gridlock of getting into Atlanta on Monday mornings was way more stressful and difficult to effectively schedule.) I passed most of those earlier Sunday evening hours killing time hanging out in cafes. I tend to haunt cafes — I’ve discovered more than one magical vortex in a favorite cafe. If I decided to plot them on a map I wouldn’t be surprised to discover evidence of ley lines or some personal power nexus. I met Jesse at the Starbucks in Ansley. He politely asked if I minded if he sat in a leather armchair next to mine that shared the small table between them. He was dressed in scrubs; maybe a surgeon, probably a nurse. He was handsome in a bland, super clean-cut way — he obviously had some seriously Nordic DNA that results in superior height, blond hair, blue eyes, and an airbrushed complexion. I remember thinking he looked less like a nurse than a model for a medical uniforms catalogue, or maybe an extra in a hospital scene on a TV show. I don’t remember how we initially began chatting, but the conversation started over the books we were reading. I was reading Jung and Tarot; he was reading Conscious Evolution by Barbara Marx Hubbard. (Which I just realized saying that, I told Amy Oscar, who I interviewed in episode 4 of this podcast, that listening to her reminded me of listening to Barbara Marx Hubbard. Anyway Jesse talked at great length about the concepts of Hubbard’s work — he was a bit dull and emotionless in his delivery, professorial, but the information itself was interesting and he seemed intent on instructing me about it. He eventually asked me what “my story” was, and I told him about my process of finding work and relocating. Pointing to my book he said : “You’re inhabiting the Wanderer archetype.” I was like “Ah, yes, or you could just call me a Fool, as the Tarot would.” He shrugged and kindly said “It's the beginning of all Journeys." When the baristas began to make the obvious motions of closing the cafe, Jesse asked me where I was staying. I told him truthfully that I wasn’t sure yet, but I lied and said I was going to go find a cheap motel — and I mentioned a notoriously shady possibility nearby. He looked troubled by this and was like. “No, no no. I live alone, really close to here, just blocks from the University where you’re going for your interview. I have a guest room, I’m not working tomorrow, and I insist you come stay with me.” I was not looking forward to finding a safe place to sleep in my car, and after going through the motions of being assured that the invitation was sincere, not just a friendly but empty offer, I accepted with grateful relief. JESSE’S HOUSE So, I was supposed to follow his car to his place, but he also gave me back-up directions in case we were separated, not an address but like simplified landmark-syle — The house was on Woodland Hills, the first driveway on the left after the last speed bump as you approach the traffic light at the end of the street. Jesse drove some vaguely forgettable car — something white, fairly late model, like a Ford Taurus — it looked like a rental. I’d probably driven past his house thousands of times over the years. When he stooped to go in through the back door into his kitchen, I realized for the first time just freaking how tall he was. The strangest thing about Jesse’s house was that it was almost entirely empty — there were no appliances except a coffee maker, nothing but water and milk and a bag of coffee in the refrigerator, paper plates and plastic cups in the cabinets; there was nothing but a lonely chandelier in the dining room; two leather armchairs, a large television and a lamp, both sitting on the floor in the living room; there was no art work on the walls; blinds were the only window treatments; in one bedroom there was a mattress and an alarm clock on the floor, an open closet with a row of scrubs and a few pairs of jeans and t-shirts; the bathroom had a toothbrush, toothpaste, a razor, and shaving cream in the medicine cabinet, a bar of soap and a bottle of shampoo in the shower… It looked like a house that had been immaculately upgraded and remodeled — for sale, but was like badly in need of some staging. I asked him “Did you just move in?” And all he said was “Uh…yeah.” (The same cryptic and succinct answer he’d given me when I asked if he was a nurse.) The whole house smelled like saffron incense. When he showed me to the second bedroom, apologizing that it was his “meditation room slash library,” I discovered where Jesse kept all his possessions (or at least a good ninety-five percent of them). Books. Books — everywhere. (It was a bit… eccentric; possibly insane.) The books weren’t shelved, but in stacks on the floor; a few feet high, and two or three stacks deep around the entire perimeter of the room. The twin mattress on the floor, well-made with crunchy new pillows, made the whole room look like some kind of gigantic crib with book-stacks instead of bars. Had the stacks been any closer to the bed or any taller I would’ve feared that they might topple over on me and bury me alive while I slept between them. I had once worked in a small metaphysical book store, so I immediately recognized the spiritual subject matter of his collection; he seemed to have at least every title we’d carried in stock, and then some. The books were also in several languages — English, French, Italian, German, Dutch, Afrikaans… Yes, I recognize Afrikaans because I have an ex who grew up in South Africa and I was fascinated by his Afrikaans (Afrikaner?) versions of The Chronicles of Narnia. In addition to the most popular best-sellers on a range of subjects, as I explored the spines more carefully I realized that the one over-arching theme, the one topic that was represented more than any other was: Angels. And, I mean, this guy was clearly obsessed with angels. ANGELS? Really?! Our earlier conversation had established Jesse (in my mind, at least) as intellectual, sober, and serious. He just didn’t seem to fit the profile of the customers I remembered coming into the new age book store and purchasing material about angels. I must admit, at most periods in my life, I negatively judged people with an interest in angelology as being vapid. With the exception of those who approached the subject of angels from an academic, scholarly, or comparative religion angle, I assumed the audience for contemporary angelology to be simplistically fundamentalist or spiritually immature. Weren’t angels a bit — I don’t know — fluffy, naive, benign yet decidedly un-powerful? Although I would have had a hard time describing sightings of beings like the one I wrote about in "The Ones Who Glow" as anything but some type of guardian angel, at the time I met Jesse I still held onto some arrogance that my experience (or at least my perspective) was uniquely profound. The truth is, at this present moment, I accept that the word “angel” describes a type of entity I do believe in — a vocabulary that transcends the boundaries of human culture and faith — yet some part of me wishes there was a footnote every time I use the word that says “The angels I see do not look a damned thing like Barbie dolls in nightgowns with wings. Their energy is comforting not because they are ‘huggable’ but because they are powerful.” In response to Jesse’s semi-apology about my having to sleep in a makeshift library, I told him I always need to read before falling asleep anyway. It was already incredibly late in the evening and I had to get up early; so he left me to the books and retired to his own room. A person’s books provide an irresistible insight into his private self, so I stayed up for awhile exploring them. I was intrigued to discover how many of the books had been autographed — all the Doreen Virtue titles were inscribed to Jesse by name; Sophy Burnham, Angela McGerr, Sylvia Browne… they were all signed. In addition to the modern, popular titles you would find in any well-stocked New Age section, there were also very old books I’d never seen before and still have not run across again — volumes filled with Kaballah; encyclopedias of angel names; invocations, prayers, and spells for calling in the Archangels and banishing demons… Of all the uniformly blank white walls in Jesse’s house, there was one exception — opposite the bed I was going to sleep in — above and between the stacks of books -- was a print of William Blake’s Angel of Revelation -- which I used as the illustration to the original written version of this story on my blog. I’ll link to that post so you can come take a look at the painting. When I opened the closet to hang up the suit bag containing my interview clothes I found the floor covered with more poster prints, rolled up like scrolls with rubber bands around them. From peeking at them, I found they were more reproductions of angel paintings and facsimiles of illuminated manuscripts. I fell asleep that night staring at the Angel of Revelation, with that little coif of golden curls that clashes absurdly with the intensity of his expression and purpose, frozen in his bold-postured pronouncement... Jesse served me coffee the next morning when I came out of the bathroom, dressed and ready to leave for my interview. He very formally inquired how I had slept. “Angels, angels, everywhere,” I said, hoping it came across as only a slightly teasing prompt. “Indeed they are,” he said. I’ve always had a tendency to want to adopt another person’s language in an attempt to connect with them. So I tried to talk about it, to at least communicate to him that I was more open to the topic than I probably really felt. I told him: “I’ve liked William Blake since I was a little kid. When I was in elementary school, a librarian found me looking at a book of Blake’s paintings and poems and she told me that Blake saw angels in trees when he was a boy. I remember resisting the urge to confess Me too!.” “Maybe that’s exactly what she was inviting you to do,” Jesse said. “I’ll give you another opportunity to now. I’d like to hear about that.” I’d actually never told anyone that before I told him. I’m not sure I even fully remembered it until that moment. So I told Jesse about The Ones Who Glow, the same story I wrote about my first encounter with a guardian angel when I was about five or six years old. “That was your asher,” he told me. It was the first time I’d ever heard that term. He explained to me that the asher is the proper word for the “classic guardian angel,” and is merely one of many different types (or phyla) of the spirit entities we call angels. “Will you come back next week?” he asked me. "I want to tell you more, and I have a feeling you have some other stories too. You’re welcome to stay here again, when you go on your second interview.” “Provided I get called back for another interview,” I said. “Are you making a prediction?” “Oh yes, I absolutely believe you will,” Jesse said. “You’ve just called your asher to you, after a very long time.” “I have?” “By talking about her, right now. You will notice the effects of having done so.” As I gathered my things to leave, and thanked him for his hospitality, he wrote a pager number down on a piece of paper and gave it to me. It said “pager - colon.” Which was a little odd. I didn’t know anyone still used those. “Let me know when you’re back in town,” he said. "I insist. Promise me you'll come back and we’ll continue this conversation.” I said that I would, although I’m not sure how much I meant it. My first interview was a success, and I did get called back for another one the following week… and the truth was, this time it was scheduled late in the afternoon on Monday — I really had no good reason to drive down on Sunday and stay the night. It was totally unnecessary, other than to visit Jesse again. And I decided to do that. I found myself wondering if I should actually page him. I was worried that I might be imposing on a stranger who was only being polite. But then, he had given me an oddly specific way to contact him…A pager. Which felt like something that in 2002 had to be used for urgent situations. Then, it occurred to me that the number might even be a fake. I decided that I would page him, and if he called back I would thank him again for letting me stay and let him know that his prediction about the second interview came true. And that would give him the opportunity to invite me to meet again if he really wanted to. The page went through okay, but quite a bit of time passed and my cell phone never rang. I drove down anyway. And I eventually went back to the same cafe where I had met him. Hours passed, closing time came. Still no call. I was pretty disappointed, and feeling foolish that I would now have to spend money on a hotel or find a safe place to sleep in my car and kill another entire day until it was time for my interview. But as I was getting in my car to leave, Jesse pulled up next to me in the parking lot and rolled down his window. He was clearly in a rush — flushed in the face, and almost out of breath. He said “Oh, good, I caught you! Follow me back to my house.” I spent a total of four Sunday evenings and Mondays in a row at Jesse’s house unearthing memories of possible angel sightings, paranormal experiences, and encounters with supernatural beings. I wasn’t called in beyond a second interview — I didn’t even get that job, although a good friend helped me find another position at that same University not long after… The truth is, I kept going back to stay at Jesse’s with an entirely different motivation. The second time I encountered Jesse, he came to the cafe where we had originally met, just as I was leaving. The third time, I paged him, while at Lenox Mall, miles away in another part of town, and fifteen minutes later he walked right up to me in a Pottery Barn. The fourth and final time, I dropped by his house without paging him at all. His car wasn’t there, but I peeked through the window in his back kitchen door; and then, just as I was putting my car in reverse, he pulled up behind me in the driveway. I didn’t even consciously realize how much I had locked away and forgotten about until I started sharing these stories with him — the more of them I recalled, the more they began to surface. There were so many experiences I had never talked about or even remotely considered telling anyone. You gotta understand -- at the point I met Jesse, in 2002, I was still deeply guarded (and relatively ignorant) about the existence of spirit guides or angels. For the first thirty-five years of my life I carried on under a profound anxiety that I might be mentally ill, or, more importantly, that other people would diagnose me as mentally ill — and that if I talked about this, I could be institutionalized, locked away, lose my freedom, or maybe even my life over it. I could never recall or transcribe my conversations with Jesse word-for-word, and, if this were a movie, I would simply show you a montage of those hours spent in the armchairs that were the only substantial furniture in the house talking over take-out food and cups of coffee. Much of these talks felt like some kind of intensive therapy sessions — like, as if, in the symbolic logic of dreams, Jesse’s uniform blue medical scrubs represented healing. He never talked about himself, his work, his family, his life. At first I would ask questions, according to social protocol, but they were always vaguely deflected. He interviewed me, with very precisely chosen questions that I was sometimes surprised to realize how much I could answer, at great length. He wanted to dig into the details of strange memories that I hadn't thought about for years. I’ve never felt “listened to” so completely. After pulling the stories from me, he would take a turn theoretically “diagnosing” or identifying the themes from a spiritualist perspective, as if he were writing a thesis paper on my childhood. Sometimes, the dialogue felt like a psychic reading, as he seemed to know more about me than I did. And — always — he related the context and the parameters of what we discussed to the existence of angels. I eventually moved from feeling “embarrassed” by the direct way he lectured about this topic to warming to the possibilities. The more I shared, and the more he explained to me, the more I felt something click into place that made more sense than I might have initially wanted to admit. I began to feel lighter, intrigued, even relieved that there were things that had never made sense to me before that suddenly had this magical, retroactive filter through which I could reconsider them. Viewed through the prism of Jesse’s beliefs, the very things that I had uncomfortably ignored and repressed because they were disturbing or confusing began to have a purpose, a cohesion that would at least make sense in the realm of Stories. Skeletons in my closet, of which I was mostly ashamed, were recast as powerful, meaningful, benevolent characters. The ingredients of my -- air-quotes — “mental illness” became the components of a mystical narrative where I was a hero, not a victim. (It’s very much the current model for my client readings — to reinterpret a person’s Story such that the seemingly random threads emerge as a pattern in a tapestry; the painful pieces become gifts of the spirit; the tragedies become tests of the will; the failures become the acquisition of wisdom… Any life story can be willfully romanced through an intentional shift in perspective.) Much of what Jesse shared about angelic entities was biblically arcane to the point of being obtuse: stuff like The Book of Enoch who was essentially abducted by ancient aliens (angels) and later returned to record the names we historically know them by; and archaic categorizations of the angelic hierarchies — the Four Choirs, and the subset phyla (species) of angelics like Supernals, Celestials, Illuminations, Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominations, Virtues, Powers… and those of the Orders of the Fourth Choir who are the most likely to closely interact with humanity — Principalities, Archangels, (plain old) Angels. Among the “lowest” order were the personal guardian angels who work with each of us, usually in pairs: our Ashers and Silver Cord Technicians. (Technicians is my word. I don’t remember what he called it. I obviously had to go back and research all those terms, after the fact…I don’t have that kind of recall.) Recently, one of the students I’m mentoring through the Automatic Intuition Program told me that she believed one of her spirit guides had shown up, unannounced, on her doorstep one day. An unusually small woman who claimed to have a “message” and was invited in. After a conversation in which she made predictions for this student concerning her future life purpose, she left and was never seen or heard from again. I didn’t say so at the time, but I wondered that this might not technically be an entity of a much higher vibration than a guide. I doubt the ability of a spirit guide (which I classify as a formerly human soul) to manifest a corporeal body — to assume living form. But of course it depends on whether or not anyone else witnessed this little woman — was my student the only person to see, hear, and interact with her? If so, then I suppose it may well have been a spirit guide in full-body apparition, not unlike a ghost; or else she was able to be perceived by interior psychic senses. Jesse suggested that many of the beings we might perceive as brief, full-body apparitions with very limited interaction — and assume to be ghosts or shadows or angels — might actually be astral travelers: real, living, flesh-and-blood human beings, asleep in some other part of the world whose souls leave their bodies and wander around. This might explain why so many of the women we see depicted in artwork about this often seem to be wearing nightgowns, are unaware of their surroundings, and are unresponsive, like sleepwalkers. While many spirit entities of all types are most commonly perceived by intuitively sensitive people, who experience them regularly or intermittently through the subtler psychic senses, Jesse told me that there are beings who literally manifest physical bodies that all of us — absolutely anyone — can see and interact with. It takes enormous power and ability to assume a corporeal form, even temporarily, and it’s unlikely that ghosts, earthbound spirits, or dis-incarnate human souls acting in the roles of guides, could pull this off. Beyond just being around us everywhere in some “ethereal” way or in some “other dimension,” corporeal angels walk around among us. Even though we see them and speak to them, we mostly dismiss them as random strangers; it may never occur to us that they're not human. ROLES OF CORPOREAL ANGELS Jesse said that angels who take the physical form of human strangers commonly appear to be doctors, nurses, EMT’s, police officers, firefighters. You may have brief and meaningful interactions with people in these roles who you never see again, and others of their kind can’t account for them and will likely not know who you’re talking about if you ask about them. Many corporeal angels will assume the guise of homeless people. Jesse pointed out that many panhandlers are quite aware of this lore, regardless of their personal beliefs, and may strategically exploit the perception for their own ends. He advised that the best means of discernment is simply your gut — that you know or at least suspect on an intuitive level; their vibration is usually quite high, the feeling that you get in their presence should never be threatening, though it could be uncomfortable or intense. Here are Some of the Qualities that Might “Give Away” the Incarnated Angel: they seem “rooted” to a particular spot — able to interact with you, although they may remain standing or seated in one place or they move around normally, but they're limited to a specific physical location or time their clothing may be “anachronistic” — the style of the clothing is oddly out of fashion, or appears “too new,” without normal wear and tear their clothing may appear unusually put together or hastily chosen there’s an anonymous quality to their overall appearance — they blend easily into crowds they may be unusually tall or the opposite, extremely diminutive in size they may appear to be of an indeterminate age — whether they are young or old, it seems almost impossible to guess they are “plainly beautiful” in an unremarkable way that has more to do with “newness” than the handsomeness of their features — “beautiful” in the way that all infant creatures are beautiful; even though their features are not interesting or necessarily sexually attractive, their skin is often colorless or without variation or blemish their smell may be unusually strong or noticeable; pleasant but pervasive they speak without recognizable accent or dialect they are emotionally even-keel or undemonstrative in their expression — perhaps even “robot like” even though other people may be able to see them as well as you can, they have no known connection or relationship to anyone else you feel their presence before you notice them; they are always aware of you first; by the time you make eye contact you realize that they have already been staring at you And there can be some Significance to Their Names They are not quick to introduce themselves or to volunteer their names; if you ask, they will provide you with a single first name. The names they claim will often be of recognizable significance to you — a name that you particularly like; that you have known many people to share; that appears often in your family; one that corresponds with a figure of importance to you. Even when their names don’t seem to be coincidental or meaningful, they nevertheless correspond to some pattern. (Have you noticed the commonality among the names of the characters I have shared in these memoirs, not to mention the names of some of my guides that I’ve talked about before? They all have J-name. Names that start with the letter J: Joanna, Julie, James … John…..Jesse. Although it is a very simple pattern, it’s an unyielding constant. More important than the “type” of entity or the details of their physical appearance are the roles they play or the circumstances in which they may interact with the living in a corporeal form. Circumstances Where Angels Tend to Intervene Miracles Transition periods like birth and death Physical Danger Direction Regarding Life Path and Purpose assistance while Traveling I specifically recall that “while traveling” was the last thing that Jesse mentioned; combined with the list of odd physical attributes, it was The Trigger that finally made me say “Okay — wait a minute…” This is how and why this series of memories I’ve been sharing with you connects. Before that day, I had never related to another person the mystery of the stranger who had followed me from London to Paris to Amsterdam. I believe it had confounded me and defied logical explanation for so long — and to such a degree that I feared speaking about it would only make me sound paranoid. I had uncomfortably and successfully semi-forgotten it. Tucked it away with no expectation of ever understanding how it could be… “Why now?” I asked Jesse, after he pronounced his judgment that my experience in Europe was a perfect example of what he alluded to as evidence of Their existence. “Why am I just becoming aware of this, here and now, at this point?” He said “At whatever point in time, your awareness can change in all directions — backwards into the past, forward into the future. You’ve definitely — admittedly — been wandering around in the woods in the dark, purposefully hiding. Maybe now you’ve stumbled upon a path that leads Somewhere you should go.” (Jesse’s speeches tended to be spiked with these Yoda-like kind of answers.) “So, what do I do with that?” I asked. He said “Reconsider… Everything…” And then he said something to me that I would hear repeated, from a variety of sources, in remarkably similar wording and form, over the next few years — I refer to it as The Ultimatum from My Guides: He asked me “Why would you keep what you believe to yourself?” I wish I could say that meeting Jesse set me on a clearly defined, purposeful, peaceful path out of those proverbial woods I was wandering in. “Reconsidering Everything” was not a pretty process — it was not all “hugs and angel wings” — the Universe had already stripped me of so many basic structures in my life, and then it sent a Wrecking Ball through my world, and deconstructed my belief system and my understanding of reality. Although my personal paranormal experiences certainly increased a hundred-fold, the next few years was more like a tornado tearing through those woods, and if I’d ever feared that I might lose my mind… Well, I finally did. I lost it. Remember my Origin Story, episode one? It took me about three or four years to crawl up and out to a place of lucidity and control that has allowed me to produce the writing on my site and to begin counseling others and providing readings. That last day with Jesse, after he challenged me regarding my reasons to continue in secrecy, he did something that was completely out of character with the relaxed, timeless nature of the routine we’d established, or the synchronicity of my comings and goings — he suddenly announced that he had to go. (Which I translated as a polite way of saying it was time for me to go.) He was urgent, fixed, and final in showing me out the door; it felt like he had heard a silent alarm go off and knew my car was about to turn back into a pumpkin. From the small back porch near his driveway, Jesse watched me throw my bag into the trunk. Before I sat down in the driver’s seat, I took my last chance to speak to him over the hood of the car: I said “You know, don’t think that I’m not unaware that, if everything you claim is true, you are highly suspect. You meet more of the criteria than Stalker John did. If anyone I’ve ever met is One of Them, you must be.” He gave me a grin and a little shrug — not a confirmation, but certainly not a denial. I never saw him again. About a month later, when I had finally landed a job and relocated, I wanted to at least talk to him and let him know how everything had worked out. But when I called his pager, I received a wrong number message. Although I never ran into him again, there were three occasions when I discovered books mysteriously left for me — one for each of the places where I lived between 2003 and 2006: Messages from Mother Mary a book called Quantum Spirituality which I cannot seem to find on Amazon and Conscious Evolution (the book by Barbara Marx Hubbard that Jesse had been reading when I first met him). Not only did Jesse disappear on me — even his home vanished. The few times that I drove by the small white house right after moving to Atlanta, I saw a realtor’s For Sale sign by the mailbox and it looked emptier than ever. Whenever I found myself on that street, I would slow down as I passed the house, looking for signs of occupancy. On one occasion, about a year later, during a particularly rough patch of difficult psychological transition, I actually went there with every intention and hope of stopping and visiting him again. I carefully tracked the landmark speed bumps — just past the last bump before you get to the traffic light — and I pulled into the driveway. Before me was a green house, and, more disorienting, the driveway and the sidewalk were on the wrong side of the house. I got out and looked to the neighbors on either side — it had to be one of those; I only could’ve missed it by one, in either direction… The house simply was not there. As if it existed according to a magical law of physics like Platform 9 and 3/4 where you catch the Hogwarts Express, or the safe house in The Order of the Phoenix that can slide into and out of a crack in space-time… Over the next couple of years, I scoured that street, expecting to locate it at last and realize my previous error, even if Jesse wouldn’t be found there. When I eventually moved back to Tennessee in 2006, the last thing I did on my way out of town, my car packed to the roof with my belongings, was take one final slow (fruitless) creep down Woodland Hills at that last speed bump. And telling you this story is the closest I’ve come to finding it again — or making it “real." Thanks for listening to this episode of Shift Your Spirits. For show notes, links, and all the past episodes please visit shiftyourspirits.com You can subscribe to this podcast in iTunes or Stitcher if you have an Android device, or Overdrive or … whatever app you like to use to access podcasts. Once you subscribe, then all the episodes will be there for you, automatically. And you can take them with you to the gym or listen in your car … that’s what I love about podcasts. If you’re new to podcasts, chances are it’s that purple button on your iPhone. Click it, search Shift Your Spirits and hit Subscribe. Also, if you want to support the show, it would really help me out if you’d leave a rating and a review in iTunes, and share it with some friends you think would be into it. If you’d like to get an intuitive reading with me, or download a free ebook and meditation to help you connect with your guides please go to sladeroberson.com and If you’re interested in my professional intuitive training program, you can download the Attunement from the course for free at automaticintuition.com BEFORE I LET YOU GO I promised to leave you a message in answer to a concern or question you may have. So take a moment to think about that—hold it in your mind or speak it out loud—I’ll pause for just a few seconds….right…NOW 1…2…3 MESSAGE It looks like someone may be trying to hide their real intentions from you. Maybe even lying to you. But consider also you could be lying to yourself. In some kind of denial. Notice the presence of Owls. Those are signs from your guardians that deception is taking place, but that you are protected from it when you ask to see the truth. The owl is a totem of wisdom and the ability to see through bullshit. I'LL TALK TO YOU LATER

On SYS episode 05, I’m sharing my conversation with a Soul Caller. Author of Sea of Miracles, Amy Oscar is a highly sensitive intuitive healer and spiritual guide who has devoted the past 20 years to helping thousands of people come home to the gifts of self-love and their own true nature. Like a spiritual systems analyst, Amy is able to read the energetic architecture of the heart to detect (and help us break through) the psycho-spiritual patterns which bind us. She sees us as multi-dimensional beings on soul-led paths, and she offers tools and training – and the mirror of illuminated conversation – to help us live heart-centered lives in a time of turbulence. GUEST LINKS - AMY OSCAR amyoscar.com One-on-One Illumination Sessions Sanctuary for Soul Callers: a free Facebook group One Circle: Weekly live calls and discussion Sea of Miracles: An Invitation Into the Light by Amy Oscar The Soul Caller Training HOST LINKS - SLADE ROBERSON Slade's Books & Courses Get an intuitive reading with Slade Automatic Intuition Patreon.com Support this Show

Finding your own brilliant genius. In honor of Steve Jobs.  Join Amy and Janet as they  draw upon the angels to talk about brilliance. Amy is an author, teacher and intuitive consultant, as well as an Angel Therapist® and creator of the Soul Caller program.  Janet -- intuitive by nature and bluntly spiritual -- is an Angel Therapist® and an Integrated Energy Therapy® Master-Instructor. 

Finding your own brilliant genius. In honor of Steve Jobs.  Join Amy and Janet as they  draw upon the angels to talk about brilliance. Amy is an author, teacher and intuitive consultant, as well as an Angel Therapist® and creator of the Soul Caller program.  Janet -- intuitive by nature and bluntly spiritual -- is an Angel Therapist® and an Integrated Energy Therapy® Master-Instructor. 

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How an anecdote of office conflict turned into a lesson of self-love and forgiveness. Amy and Janet walk through the topic on this episode of the Angel Salon®  Amy is an author, teacher and intuitive consultant as well as an Angel Therapist® and creator of the Soul Callerprogram.  Janet -- intuitive by nature and bluntly spiritual -- is an Angel Therapist® and an Integrated Energy Therapy® Master-Instructor.