Grid Geeks

Grid Geeks is on hiatus for while...but, check out this new podcast: Electrify This! with host Sara Baldwin. This podcast explores the burgeoning movement to electrify everything as a core strategy to decarbonize all sectors of our economy. Three experts highlight the most important policy, regulatory, and market issues surrounding electrification of transportation and buildings. What are leading states are doing right? How will the new Biden-Harris Administration tackle clean energy? What can decision-makers can do to ensure the movement to electrify is equitable for all? Subscribe to Electrify This! where you get your other podcasts! Guests: Rose McKinney-James, Managing Principal of Energy Works LLC and McKinney-James and Associates, and a former Commissioner with the Nevada Public Service Commission; Sue Gander, Managing Director of Electric Vehicle Policy with the Electrification Coalition and former Director of the Energy, Infrastructure and Environment Division with the National Governors’ Association; and Mike Henchen, Principal of Building Electrification with the Rocky Mountain Institute and a former US Navy Officer. Electrify This! is an Energy Innovation original podcast.

Introduction Electrify This! - a new podcast devoted to the theme of electrification for decarbonization. Electrify This! features electrification experts from around the world who are advancing the transition of all sectors of our economy to 100 percent clean electricity. Hosted by Sara Baldwin, Energy Innovation's Electrification Policy Director (and former Grid Geeks podcast host), the show will explore the policy, regulatory, and market issues surrounding electrification of transportation, buildings, and industry, and demystifies complex issues to better understand the challenges and identify scalable solutions. Preventing the worst impacts of climate change requires rapid reductions in greenhouse gas emissions economywide. Electrification – replacing the technologies and systems that still run on fossil fuels, such as gas and oil, with alternatives that run on electricity, like electric vehicles, heat pumps, and induction stoves – is a proven way to transition away from highly polluting fuels to a clean energy economy without compromising reliability, affordability, comfort, or economic growth. We have the technologies and capabilities to run the electricity grid on 90 carbon-free resources (such as renewable energy, energy efficiency, energy storage, distributed energy resources, nuclear, demand response, etc.), and if we “electrify everything,” we can leverage this clean grid to drive deep emissions reductions across every sector of the economy. Electrify This! investigates promising electrification work underway in nationally and in states and communities across the country, highlighting what policymakers, regulators, businesses, and individuals should know and do to support economy-wide electrification.

Distributed energy resources (or DERs) – such as distributed solar or wind, demand response, and energy storage – have long been touted as part of the solution to create a more flexible, resilient and clean electric grid. These DERs are growing in popularity and the demand for consumer-sited resources is surging, as prices drop and people seek greater energy security. Yet, despite their fanfare, DERs still remain a relatively small percentage of the electricity grid and an underutilized resource when it comes to utility distribution system operations and planning. DERs have the potential to yield a more flexible and resilient (and, ultimately, a more reliable) grid – but only if that potential is allowed to be realized. In this episode, I speak with Jessica Shipley of the Regulatory Assistance Project (RAP) and Brian Lydic of the Interstate Renewable Energy Council (IREC)to explore what is happening on the cutting edge of DER policies, regulations, codes and standards. We’ll also talk about grid flexibility, resilience, and what more is needed to unlock the full potential of DERS.

Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, utilities and system operators have continued to manage and operate the electric grid, while dealing with a number of challenges, including: keeping utility employees safe, responding to abrupt changes to electricity demand, protecting customers and preserving reliability. In this episode of Grid Geeks, I discuss the challenges and experiences brought by COVID-19 with two electrical energy industry experts: Dean Sharafi, who heads System Management for the South-West Interconnected System in Australia and Senior Member of IEEE and Member of the IEEE Power Energy Society Governing Board and Juan Carlos Montero, Network Analyst in the Costa Rican National Power Control Center and IEEE PES Vice President of Membership and Image.

Applicable across nearly every sector, energy efficiency is a pervasive and untapped resource capable of transforming our economy. Not only a key climate change solution and the most cost-effective energy resource available, energy efficiency also helps reduce harmful pollution, creates jobs and saves consumers and businesses money. Yet, despite its fanfare among energy nerds, energy efficiency is an often overlooked resource. In this episode of Grid Geeks, I speak with Rachel Gold, Director of the Utilities Program for the American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy (ACEEE), and Christine Brinker is a Senior Associate at the Southwest Energy Efficiency (SWEEP) about energy efficiency policy trends, market impacts, and opportunities on the horizon.

In this episode of Grid Geeks, we investigate the efforts underway to reform the traditional regulated utility business model, as a means to remove the underlying economic disincentives for utilities to enable and/or support more aggressive clean energy policy goals (including increased deployment of distributed energy resources and energy efficiency). I speak with Hannah Polikov, Managing Director of Advanced Energy Economy, and Dan Cross-Call, a Principal with the Rocky Mountain Institute’s Electricity Practice to learn more about the drivers for these efforts, how different states are approaching them, and what we have learned to date from the early movers.

Connecting renewable energy resources to the electric grid in most places requires access to new or existing transmission. However, the current pace of transmission expansion plus policy, regulatory and permitting challenges all pose substantial barriers to transmission and renewable energy project development. In this episode of Grid Geeks, I speak with Nina Plaushin, Vice President, Regulatory and Federal Affairs for ITC Holdings Corp and Amy Farrell, the Senior Vice President for Government and Public Affairs at the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA), to dig into the key trends and issues impacting large-scale renewable energy development and the transmission system.

As we mark the two-year anniversary of Hurricanes Harvey, Maria, Irma, and Jose, and with Hurricane Dorian having just ravaged the Caribbean and now impacting the Southeast and Eastern Seaboard, the resilience of the electric grid is still a front-and-center conversation. Yet, in spite of the growing number of more severe natural disasters and man-made events impacting the electric grid, efforts to place a value on resilience are still relatively nascent. In this episode of Grid Geeks, I talk with two experts on the topic of resilience, Wilson Rickerson, Principal with Converge Strategies, and Jonathon Monken, Senior Director, System Resiliency and Strategic Coordination for PJM Interconnection. We explore some key questions: How is resilience defined? Does it make sense to ascribe a value to resilience? What methods and tools exist to determine that value? Which entities are ‘responsible’ for resilience of the electric grid? Is there sufficient coordination and communication among those entities? What existing resilience efforts provide useful models for others to learn from?

The growing movement to electrify our transportation sector is beginning to reshape our economy, the environment and public health. The transportation sector now exceeds the electricity sector in terms of its overall contribution to greenhouse gas pollution, and the widespread adoption of electric vehicles (EVs) can reduce tailpipe emissions and clean up the air we breathe. But as we move to electrify vehicles, how do you get help people get over their range anxiety and make EVs more mainstream? What are states doing to lead the charge for EVs? How are federal actions impacting EV market growth? To dig into these and other fascinating topics, Ispeak with two transportation electrification experts, Sara Rafalson, Director of Market Development for EVGo, and Max Baumhefner, Senior Attorney for the Climate and Clean Energy Program at the Natural Resources Defense Council.

It has been a little over two months since the November 2018 midterm elections and the 116th United States Congress has commenced – with new members in both the Senate and House and a new majority in the House. Across the States and U.S. Territories, there are 20+ new Governors taking office, which means new cabinet appointments and new policy priorities. In addition, numerous new state legislators are taking office and state legislative sessions are getting underway. On today’s episode of Grid Geeks, I talk with three federal and state policy experts about the impacts of the 2018 elections on clean energy policy and what’s on the horizon in 2019. Guests: Steve Koerner, Founder and Principal at Policy Strategy & Insight; Jessica Scott, Senior Director, Interior West for Vote Solar; and, Brad Klein, Senior Attorney with the Environmental Law & Policy Center.

In this episode of Grid Geeks, we take a closer look at two big policy maneuvers poised to catalyze some potentially major changes in the US energy markets: California’s passage of SB 100, which establishes a 100% carbon-free electricity goal by 2045 and the US Environmental Protection Agency’s Affordable Clean Energy Proposal, which is the Trump Administration’s replacement for the Obama Administration’s Clean Power Plan to regulate coal power plant emissions. What do these two concurrent efforts mean for clean energy markets? And what should we expect going forward? I speak with Laura Wisland, Senior Manager of Western States Energy for the Union of Concerned Scientists and Gavin Bade, Senior Reporter for Utility Dive to get more intel on these two power plays and gain insight on what they mean for clean energy, coal and the future of US energy markets.

The debates on bulk-power system reliability, resiliency, and the “federal fuel wars” continue at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (or FERC) and the North American Electric Reliability Corporation (or NERC). While the Trump Administration’s Affordable Clean Energy (ACE) rule proposal is getting the headlines, the more behind-the-scenes efforts underway at FERC and NERC continue to shape federal energy policy, energy markets and grid planning. In this episode of Grid Geeks I talk with Ric O’Connell, the Executive Director of Grid Lab, and Mark Ahlstrom, President of the Energy Systems Integration Group, to get the latest updates from the frontlines clean energy policy, including expanding the role of energy storage on the grid, integrating “resilience” into energy markets, and updating NERC reliability standards. Show links and bios are available at: http://www.goodgrid.net/blog

Advanced technologies are transforming our daily way of life and economy - from how we heat and cool our buildings to how we transport ourselves and power our economy. We are witnessing what some have declared the “fourth Industrial Revolution.” For state governors, these rapid changes have significant implications for their citizens and economies. To help governors stay “ahead of the curve”, the National Governors Association, under the leadership of NGA Chair Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval, released Energy and Transportation Innovation Roadmaps for Governors. On this episode of Grid Geeks, I speak with Sue Ganderand Daniel Lauf of the National Governors Association to learn about these roadmaps and the key policy considerations states should be thinking about as they navigate energy and transportation innovation.

Consumer-driven distributed energy resources (DERs), such as energy efficiency, distributed generation, electric vehicles and energy storage, are on the rise and here to stay. In many places, DERs are shaping how the grid is operated, managed, and planned. On this episode of Grid Geeks, I speak with Chairman Betty Ann Kaneof the Public Service Commission of the District of Columbia and Lisa Schwartzwith the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory about how regulators, states and utilities are addressing DERs in distribution planning, what new tools and approaches are needed, and what challenges exist to planning the grid of the future, while optimizing DERs on the grid for performance, reliability and cost-effectiveness?

When disaster strikes, what does it take a restore power to an entire island and rebuild a new grid, while taking steps to integrate resiliency and transform the system for the long-term. As Puerto Rico continues its efforts to recover and rebuild the electric grid after Hurricanes Irma and Maria, it has become a case study of resiliency. In this episode of Grid Geeks, I speak with Jose Roman Morales, Interim President of the Puerto Rico Energy Commission, and Julia Hamm, CEO/President of the Smart Electric Power Alliance, to learn more about the current state of the Puerto Rico electric grid, get an update on the efforts underway to make the grid more resilient (including new microgrid regulations) and have a candid discussion about the challenges ahead.

The two sides of the grid – the transmission system and the distribution system – have distinct approaches to planning, operations, data collection, and modeling to determine future grid needs. In addition, the two systems are governed and regulated by different entities, each with unique missions and objectives. The growth of consumer-driven distributed resources and state policies are reshaping the distribution system and compelling the need to bridge the gap between the two sides of the grid. Yet, technical, policy and regulatory barriers challenge this union. In this episode of Grid Geeks, we will explore what is happening to better connect the two sides of the grid and examine what is needed going forward to expedite the transition to a more modern electric grid. To help us unpack all of this, Kerinia Cusick, Team Leader and Co-Founder of the Center for Renewables Integration, provides us with more insights on the components of transmission planning, and how these plans are beginning to interact and intersect with the distribution planning efforts.

It’s been a great year for Grid Geeks, it’s been fun to connect with all of you on these issues it turns out many of us care about. This is my last episode before passing the baton to a new, great Grid Geek woman to host going forward. I’m ending where I started, with my friend and colleague John Moore from Sustainable FERC Project talking about wholesale energy markets in the face of a changing electricity system. Thanks for listening!

It’s been a few months now since Congress passed federal tax reform that included a reduction in the corporate tax rate, the “base erosion and anti abuse tax" or BEAT provision, deprecation bonuses and more. Developers, offtakers, lenders and utilities have been scrambling to understand the impact of these changes on energy project financing. Now that we have a dash of solar module tariff and a threat of steel and aluminum tariffs to throw in, they continue to try and pin down this moving target of an investment landscape. As a policy wonk, I'm always trying to connect what's happening in reality, in the markets, to the policy landscape. Joining me today are John Marciano, partner and co-head of global project finance at Akin Gump, and Julian Torres, director of wind and solar tax equity partnerships at Royal Bank of Canada, who bring some light on where we stand in the world of renewables investment today.

The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) recently issued an important new rule, Order 841, that requires regions to remove barriers to energy storage participation in wholesale energy markets. The rule demonstrates FERC's commitment to allowing all resources capable of providing grid services to participate in wholesale markets. FERC did not include breaking down barriers to aggregations of distributed energy resources, but has committed to further inquiry about whether it should - also encouraging. A Brattle Group analysis suggest that the rule itself will unlock 7,000 MW of storage potential, while creating a platform that could contribute to achieving 50,000 MW of storage on the U.S. system. With grid geeks to talk about the rule and its implications are Jeff Dennis, counsel to Advanced Energy Economy, and Kiran Kumaraswamy, manager at Fluence, a joint venture between AES and Siemens, both of whom were intimately involved in the rule's development.

To kick off Season 3, we focus on a different aspect of grid resilience - low income community access to energy efficiency and renewable energy. Trisha Miller, Chief Sustainability Officer at Wishrock affordable housing developer, describes emerging trends in multi-family housing efficiency and renewable energy development, how deals get done and what they look like, and how policies like the U.S. Department of Energy's Better Building Challenge, federal investment tax incentives and the myriad of state policies and incentives are driving change in the sector.

As we get close to the end of the calendar year and officially wrap up Season 2 of Grid Geeks, let’s talk about the good news in energy efficiency and renewable energy trends, and catch up on the state of affairs with wholesale market regionalization in the West. The economic tipping point for renewable energy is here. In addition to the ever-low cost energy efficiency, utility scale renewable energy represents the lowest-cost long term resource investment. And, cities and states around the country are filling in the federal vacuum with impressive commitments to decarbonize quickly. Environmental advocates find themselves comfortably advocating on behalf of free-market economics, while fossil interests are making up concepts like “on-site fuel security” to try and save their dinosaur power plants. Ralph Cavanagh of the Natural Resources Defense Council joins me to discuss trends observed in his organization’s Annual Energy Report – this year, America’s Clean Energy Revolution. He also shares an update on where market regionalization efforts stand in California and surrounding states.

Hosting capacity analysis (HCA) is an emerging tool available to open up and more effectively engage in the integration of distributed energy resources. It involves analysis to assess the real-time ability of specific locations (circuits or even nodes) on the distribution system to manage DERs and the addition of DERs. Analysis coming from HCA modeling provides information to facilitate DER interconnection and planning.   HCA potential is new. The modeling technology to support the effort is evolving and not standardized across the few states and utilities trying the tool on for size. As part of California’s distributed resources planning effort, the California Public Utility Commission convened an HCA working group to develop a method that utilities can use to engage in and use HCA analyses. Sara Baldwin Auck, the regulatory program director at the Interstate Renewable Energy Council, and Sky Stanfield, senior counsel at Shute, Mihaly & Weinberger, join me to talk about HCA, lessons learned from the California and other experiences, and why we should all care about (and embrace!) the tool.

One aspect of FERC’s authority that is critical to shaping our energy future is its jurisdiction to consider and approve new interstate natural gas pipelines. Unlike determinations about the need and siting of transmission lines, which generally falls within states’ authority, FERC has the jurisdiction to consider the need for and impacts of interstate natural gas pipelines. FERC’s policy, which has consisted of approving almost all of the pipeline applications that have come its way – no fewer than 400 pipelines since 2000, has been nothing if not controversial. The Center for Public Integrity issued a report in July that FERC has only denied approval of two pipelines in the last 30 years. These pipelines are expensive, environmentally intrusive, and have real life impacts for the communities in which pipelines are planned as well as, to a lesser extent, everyone who pays a monthly electricity or gas heating bill. With steel-in-the-ground lives of 50 years or more, they also contribute to locking in carbon-polluting natural gas as a central component of our country’s electricity supply. So, why is it so easy to get FERC approval for new pipeline development? Montina Cole, senior attorney with Natural Resources Defense Council’s Sustainable FERC Project, joins Grid Geeks to talk about a new Analysis Group report that considers FERC’s pipeline certification policy (which harkens back to 1999) in light of changing industry conditions. She connects the dots on the need for reform necessary to facilitate an affordable and clean energy future.

This week, public comments were due on the U.S. Department of Energy-created and now Federal Energy Regulatory Commission-proposed rule to subsidize some out-of-the-money coal and nuclear plants in the name of fuel security and resilience. The comments tell us that outside of companies that mine coal or own merchant coal or nuclear power plants, opposition to the rule runs broad and deep. Gavin Bade of Utility Dive, and Sonia Aggarwal and Robbie Orvis of Energy Innovation, join me to talk about the proposed rule, its significant deficiencies, and what we should focus on if we really want to try and improve grid resilience.

Regional Transmission Organizations (RTOs) and Independent System Operators (ISOs) have existed in their current constructs since 1999. That year, FERC finalized a rule called Order 2000 that encouraged RTO and ISO development and provided minimum characteristics and functions for their operation related to transmission service and centralized energy markets. Today, there are six FERC-jurisdictional RTOs and ISOs (and Texas has one too, not regulated by FERC) that manage transmission service, wholesale energy markets and perform reliability functions for about 2/3 of the country’s electricity customers. But, what are these entities, exactly? They’re not government agencies, and not private companies. They are managed by a staff and independent board and all have varying degrees and types of stakeholder involvement. How do decisions get made? Which stakeholders hold the most influence? Are existing governance structures broken, and what can be done to fix them? On today’s episode, Mark James, Senior Research Fellow at Vermont Law School, and Christina Simeone, Director of Policy for the University of Pennsylvania’s Kleinman Energy Center, join me to talk about their respective research into RTO governance and potential reform.

The U.S. Department of Energy’s proposed rule on grid resilience has existed for two weeks now, and is nothing if not controversial. The rule that DOE would have the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission enact would invent a new “resilience” value based on on-site fuel availability (a 90-day supply, to be specific) that could only (or mostly) be provided by merchant coal and nuclear plants. In the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast, the rule would award these power plants a payment in addition to the clearing price they receive in wholesale energy, capacity and ancillary service markets in order to help them cover their going forward costs and stay in business. This effective bailout for coal and nuclear plants would provide a life line to power plants that are losing in the market place and therefore uneconomic to keep online. The action would undermine the existence of competitive, technology-neutral wholesale energy markets. In addition, the proposal requires a significant leap in logic from determining that the grid needs something called “resilience,” defining that term as on-site fuel security, and then formulating criteria that ensure only merchant coal and nuclear plants qualify to provide the service. Sue Tierney, Senior Advisor at the Analysis Group and former DOE Assistant Secretary, and Doug Smith, partner at Van Ness Feldman and former FERC General Counsel, join me to consider the market and legal aspects of DOE’s proposal.

Now that wind and solar resources are achieving cost parity (assuming potential import tariffs don’t change the equation), why don’t those pesky less economic coal plants go away? On today’s episode, Uday Varadarajan of the Climate Policy Initiative and Harriet Moyer Aptekar of Crest Consulting discus the potential for utilities to use securitization via utility bond financing to address utility accounting and rate base erosion issues that stand in the way of retiring old, uneconomic coal plants. We’ve talked about how some coal plants are losing out in wholesale energy markets due to lower-cost natural gas resources, among other reasons. It’s a different story in states that remain vertically integrated with utilities that do not participate in centralized wholesale markets. In these vertically integrated states, costs for power plant investments are recovered through retail customer bills over the “useful life” of the assets, often 30 years. Sometimes, even if plants are operating at inefficient or uncompetitive costs, a utility’s need or desire to maintain the coal plant as rate base are the main reason they stay in operation. So what if we can change that equation? What if we can use private financing to get utilities on board with coal plant retirement? Today we talk about efforts to do just that.

Season 2 kicks off with a great episode Markets, Reliability and Resilience featuring Rob Gramlich, President of Grid Strategies, LLC, and Alison Silverstein, energy consultant, strategist and writer who DEO hired to write this summer’s Staff Report on Electricity Markets and Reliability. Alison also led DOE’s 2003 Blackout Investigation and Report. The DOE staff report was the summer’s somewhat controversial highlight of an ongoing energy debate involving words like “baseload,” “reliability,” “fuel assurance,” and “resiliency” and everyone who is anyone chimed in. All that can be said about it has been said. Or maybe not. Regardless of what you think about the study, the issues it attempts to address – namely, grid reliability and resilience in the midst of a rapidly transforming energy system – are critical. Hurricanes Harvey and Irma (and maybe its friends Jose and Maria) are demonstrating the supreme importance of figuring out how the system can withstand and respond to serious grid disturbances like hurricanes. On today’s episode, Alison and Rob discuss reliability and resilience-related grid needs and the role of wholesale markets (or not) in addressing these needs. Oh, and as lead consulting author, Alison may have a bit to say about the evolution of and findings in the DOE report as well.

The Senate has confirmed the appointment of two new FERC Commissioners, Neil Chatterjee and Robert Powelson. Together with Acting Chair Cheryl LaFleur, that brings the Commission to 3, constituting a quorum for taking action and making decisions. The new FERC will face important issues around wholesale power market design, as well as transmission planning, among others. With me to discuss the issues is Suedeen Kelly, former FERC Commissioner (2003-2009) and former New Mexico Public Regulation Commission Chair and Commissioner.

Solar companies and advocates, utilities, and regulators in states around the country are struggling to determine workable rate design for customers with rooftop solar panels. Net metering - the program that in varying forms credits customers credits on their bills at the full retail rate they otherwise pay for electricity - is viewed by many as unsustainable. Rooftop solar companies and stakeholders supportive of their increased deployment are looking for durable alternatives, and are not so convinced the need to move away from net metering is imminent in many states. In my home state of Utah, the investor-owned utility, Rocky Mountain Power, has proposed replacing its net metering program with a controversial rate design. My guests Travis Ritchie (Sierra Club), Rick Gilliam (VoteSolar) and Sophie Hayes (Utah Clean Energy) join me to talk about the issues specific to Utah and rooftop solar policies more broadly.

Despite the remaining political rhetoric, the energy transition is well underway and our nation is moving away from powering its systems with fossil-fueled power plants. This transitioning involves retiring gigawatts and gigawatts of coal plants. Each individual 500, 1000 or more MW plant is a massive heavy industrial operation usually with significant number of employees to manage it. Each plant provides a significant number of megawatt hours, which may or may need to be replaced after retirement. In addition to energy, many coal plants have taken their place as the default provider of grid services, or at least insurer of grid stability, where they live. These technical issues need to be managed. In addition, there is a reality of community and individual impacts that come with the loss of a major industrial coal plant, especially in rural areas in which the plant has served as a key or even sole economic driver for the area. This week, Amanda Ormond, Managing Director of Western Grid Group, joins me to discuss the technical and some of the people issues related to coal plant retirements. We focus specifically on the Navajo Generating Station near Page, Arizona, which provides a case study with several similarities and unique attributes as compared to retiring coal plants across the West.

What happens when a rooftop solar aggregator can’t deliver its power as committed to the wholesale market because it’s distribution utility’s line is out? What about when demand response customers participate in both utility demand management programs and wholesale markets and both make calls on their megawatts? As the amount of DERs on the distribution system grows, so does their impact on and interaction with the transmission system. With help from the organization More than Smart, the California Independent System Operator, the state’s investor owned utilities, and competitive DER providers are leading the way in addressing operational issues that arise as DERs interconnected to the distribution system are engaging as resources with distribution utilities and wholesale grid operators. This week, More than Smart’s Matthew Tisdale joins me to consider recommendations in the organization’s new report on operational issues that need to be addressed between the transmission and distribution systems to reliably facilitate a high DER future, and a framework for addressing those issues. The report’s working group (including CAISO, as well as PG&E, SCE and SDG&E) focus on communication and coordination as near-term steps to support a reliable and highly distributed electricity grid.

The transmission system for the Western 1/3 of the United States is divided up into over thirty different electrical fiefdoms known as balancing areas. Each one controls planning, ensures reliability and coordinates operations for their own small area. California is the exception to this rule, as it has developed a state-wide "regional grid." In addition to cost inefficiencies related to the lack of coordination across the smaller regions, a new problem has emerged. California's abundance of carbon-free and zero fuel-cost solar, along with wind in Wyoming and other states, is getting curtailed or "dumped" because there is over supply within their regions or balancing area. At the same time, customers in surrounding states are losing out on the bill savings that could come with access to these cheap resources. What's a state to do? On what will be the first of several conversations on the issue of western market development, renewables integration, and coal power plant retirement, Jennifer Gardner from Western Resource Advocates joins to discuss the potential for utilities in the West to join regional grid operators. Specifically, she considers the California Independent System Operator and the Southwest Power Pool. More information is available at www.goodgrid.net.

Today’s episode features Ari Peskoe, Senior Fellow in Electricity at Harvard Law School’s Environmental Policy Initiative and Miles Farmer, Clean Energy Attorney at Natural Resources Defense Council. They explain the intricate details of the interactions between wholesale energy markets and state energy policies like renewable portfolio standards and zero carbon credits for nuclear power plants. The audio production is still a bit scrappy, but if you make it through this one you can wear your energy nerd badge proudly!

Interviews with policy thinkers about those esoteric energy policies shaping our energy future.