MurdHer: Women in Crime

Have you ever fallen for someone? Ever fallen because of someone? This is the story of Cody Johnson and Jordan Graham, two young newlyweds with their whole lives ahead of them. At least, that's how it should have gone. But just days after their wedding, Cody goes missing. Join us as the most attentive coworker we've ever heard of launches a missing person's investigation less than 24 hours later. What could have happened? Was there foul play? Foul play from the spouse? Yes. Yes, there was. You know what to expect.   SOURCES: https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=20465753&userab=abcn_web_article_ts-244*variant_a_control-924,taboola_ads-322*variant_a_controla-1301 https://www.justice.gov/usao-mt/pr/jordan-linn-graham-sentenced-30-years-prison Snapped Season 25 Episode 16 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26779763 https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/justice/montana-newlywed-sentenced  

On this episode of MurdHer we explore the unsettling story of Patricia Allanson Taylor - a woman whose charm and grace masked a darker truth. She seemed to have it all after getting married and buying the home of her dreams.. Unfortunately it was never enough for Patricia.  What starts out as a seemingly ordinary life takes so many twists and turns that you might experience whiplash! Patricia's story challenges our assumptions about appearances - and how far someone will go when the stakes are everything.   SOURCES: Everything She Ever Wanted - Anne Rule https://murderpedia.org/female.A/a/allanson-patricia.htm https://skdb.fandom.com/wiki/ALLANSON_Patricia_Vann_Taylor

A soldier, a wife—Sally McNeil's life was anything but ordinary. From the heights of competitive bodybuilding to the depths of a turbulent marriage, her story is one of ambition, control, and explosive conflict. When years of tension finally reached a breaking point, the events that followed shocked the world of professional athletics. Was it self-defense, premeditation, or something even more complex? Join us as we explore the life, relationships, and the fateful day that changed everything.

In this chilling episode, we dive into the unsettling life of Velma Barfield, a woman whose calm demeanor concealed a dark and deadly secret. Known as the "Death Row Granny," Barfield was convicted of poisoning multiple people, including her own mother. But what led her down this path of murder? Was it a desperate bid for attention, financial gain, or something more sinister? We explore her troubled childhood, her relationships, and the twisted psychology behind her lethal actions. Join us as we unravel the haunting story of a woman who gained the trust of those around her—only to betray them in the most fatal of ways.

In this episode, we dive into the chilling and bizarre case of Viktoria Nasyrova, a woman whose life seemed straight out of a movie. From a twisted plot involving poisoning to fake identities, Viktoria's crimes blur the lines between reality and fiction. We'll explore how she left behind a trail of deception, intrigue, and cheesecake crumbs. Tune in as we unravel her shocking story, packed with lies, secrets, and a dash of dark humor. Don't miss it—this is one case you'll have to hear to believe!

In this episode, we're diving into the bizarre and twisted case of Jennair Gerardot — a woman who took revenge to a whole new (and deadly) level. After discovering her husband's affair, Jennair didn't just confront the other woman, she decided to handle things in the most extreme way possible. Spoiler: it didn't end well for anyone involved. Tune in as we break down this wild, tragic tale, with plenty of jaw-dropping moments, some questionable decisions, and a lot of "what were they thinking?"

Betty Broderick shot and killed her ex-husband, Dan Broderick, and his new wife, Linda Kolkena, in one of the most infamous cases of domestic rage. While it may seem like a cut-and-dry crime, the intense drama and emotional turmoil surrounding their bitter divorce sheds light on why Betty took such a drastic step. From betrayal to courtroom battles, this episode delves into the unraveling of Betty's life and the psychological pressure that led to the shocking murders. Was Betty a cold-blooded killer, or was she pushed to the edge? Listen in as we explore the layers of this tragic story and the events that led to Betty Broderick's life sentence.   Sources: https://www.latimes.com/la-broderick-sg-storygallery.html https://www.oxygen.com/true-crime-buzz/when-is-betty-broderick-getting-released-from-prison Until the Twelfth of Never by Bella Stumbo

Kaitlin Armstrong was a yoga instructor living in Austin, Texas, until she became the prime suspect of a murder. How did this once seemingly ordinary woman transform into one of the most wanted fugitives in America? Was this crime an act of passion, or was something deeper at play? Explore the twists and turns of her story... Or should we say, her MurdHer?   SOURCES: https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/key-witness-colin-strickland-describes-tumultuous-relationship-with-kaitlin-armstrong-in-trial https://people.com/who-is-kaitlin-armstrong-moriah-wilson-killer-8669499#:~:text=The%20filing%20also%20alleged%20that,abandoned%20her%20as%20a%20child. https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/news/us-marshals-made-fake-yoga-instructor-ads-in-costa-rica-to-catch-kaitlin-armstrong/ https://www.foxnews.com/us/fugitive-kaitlin-armstrong-father-murder-accusations Chasing Evil Podcast

Joanna Dennehy is a rarity - a female serial killer. In a span of 10 days, she went on a killing spree that shocked the UK. Known for her cold demeanor and lack of remorse, Dennehy's case raises questions about the nature of evil and the factors that drive such heinous acts. This episode delves into her life, the details of her crimes, and the investigation that led to her capture. Join us as we explore the dark story of Joanna Dennehy and the impact of her actions.

The 40 Elephant Gang was one of the most notorious all-female crime syndicates in London. Known for their cunning and ruthless tactics, they dominated the criminal underworld from the late 19th century through the 1950s. This episode delves into their intricate heists, the personalities that led the gang, and the legacy they left behind. While some view them as anti-establishment heroines, others see them as dangerous criminals. Listen in and decide for yourself where you stand on the legacy of the 40 Elephant Gang.   Sources: https://www.ranker.com/list/diamond-annie-and-the-forty-elephants/genevieve-carlton https://londondarktourist.com/female-gangsters-forty-elephants/ https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/featuredarticles/2023/the-queens-of-the-forties-1683/#:~:text= Alice Diamond and the Forty Elephants, by Brian McDonald

Lucy Letby is one of the most notorious female serial killers in the U.K. She was accused and convicted of killing 7 infants under her care. Her sentencing was controversial, with some believing in her innocence, as discussed in a featured New Yorker article linked in our sources. However, within the U.K., she is widely seen as guilty. Tune in to hear the story and decide for yourself. Note: At the time of this recording, Lucy Letby was not being re-tried. Her re-trial for the murder of Baby K began on 6/10/24.   https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-65813112 https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/05/20/lucy-letby-was-found-guilty-of-killing-seven-babies-did-she-do-it https://open.spotify.com/show/1Kzpxy1tGKf0G4z0i3PfIM https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-65813112 https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/lucy-letby-nurse-tried-kill-week-old-baby-with-insulin-tswp0zp58 https://tattle.life/wiki/lucy-letby-case/#allegations-amp-timeline    

Do you like cinnamon? Then get ready for this case because it's chalk full of twists

On June 14, 2015 a welfare check was called in on DeeDee and Gypsy Rose Blanchard. The police enter to find DeeDee murdered and her severely disabled daughter, Gypsy, missing. Once Gypsy is found the case is further flipped on its head. Tune in for another Dani Deep Dive and Gabe, who apparently has been living under a rock, get his mind blown.

Joann Curley and Bobby were just recently married when tragedy struck. Bobby, a construction worker by trade, began getting sick and was diagnosed with a rare nerve disorder. A lucky meeting with a toxicologist, just before Bobby passed, would change everything. Tune in, and hear both the story and Dani fight off her unhinged anxiety over how hard it was raining.

In July 2011, the Casey Anthony case captivated the nation. Accused of murdering her own 2-year-old daughter, Casey Anthony, a woman whose narrative is often punctuated by more falsehoods than truths, was found not guilty by a jury of her peers. Despite the legal verdict many are certain of her guilt. Our latest episode delves deeper than ever before. Over 2 hours, Dani sifts through prosecution and defense narratives, court records, and interviews to present a comprehensive exploration of the case. Dani and Gabe find themselves facing a question no other case on MurdHer has ever raised: Despite Casey Anthony's very likely guilt in killing her daughter, was the jury correct in declaring her "not guilty"?   Sources: Presumed Guilty by Jose Baez Imperfect Justice by Jeff Ashton https://www.biography.com/crime/casey-anthony https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=casey+anthony https://www.vox.com/culture/23506125/casey-anthony-evidence-where-the-truth-lies-how-true-or-false https://people.com/crime/where-is-casey-anthony-now/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CaseyAnthony/ https://www.businessinsider.com/where-is-casey-anthony-now https://people.com/casey-anthony-case-complete-timeline-8422805 https://www.fox19.com/story/10165797/deputy-fired-over-his-poor-response-to-caylee-tip/  

It's episode 50!! On this very special episode; Dani covers the Maui Twin Yoga Case. Alexandria and Anastasia opened a very successful yoga studio. They even had a reality tv show lined up. Unfortunately things turned bad and they lost everything. The twins moved to Hawaii to find a new start.. but instead only found the end of the road. It doesn't end there! Keep listening for HerStory - Dani covers the Fourty Elephants Gang!   Sources: https://www.thecut.com/2018/01/what-to-know-alexandria-duvals-alleged-murder-in-hawaii.html   https://abcnews.go.com/US/trial-end-today-woman-accused-killing-twin-sister/story?id=52764738   https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/featuredarticles/2023/the-queens-of-the-forties-1683/ https://people.com/crime/why-police-pushed-to-charge-a-twin-with-murdering-her-sister-by-driving-off-a-hawaiian-cliff/   https://www.oxygen.com/accident-suicide-or-murder/crime-news/alexandria-duval-not-guilty-twin-anastasias-accident-death   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbYzGZGpJK8  

Nancy Kissel had everything from money to family and appeared to be living the dream. Unfortunately. to attain that lifestyle her husband worked 16+ hour days and she was mostly at home with the kids (and nanny). On November 6, 2003 policemen show up to their apartment and ask about her husband, who no one has seen for 4 days. Where is he?! Listen to find out.

On this weeks episode of MurdHer, Dani covers the case of Kouri Richens. After a night of celebration Eric is found dead in his bed. What initially seems like a tragic brain aneurism turns out to be far more sinister. Find out how a cocktail, deleted texts, and bad decisions land Kouri in jail where she is still currently awaiting trial! Did she do it? Gabe thinks it's obvious, but you decide!

On this week of MurdHer - Dani and Gabe give their unprofessional medical opinions and discuss Jennifer Pan. Jennifer was a perfect, straight-A student. She achieved an early admission to the college of her choice and seemed to have a bright future ahead of her. Unfortunately, on the night of November 8th, 2010 she was at home with her parents when a break-in happened! 3 armed gunmen murder her mother, put her father in a coma, yet they leave her unharmed. The police investigate but things just aren't adding up. Why was nothing taken from the house? Will her father wake from his coma? What will he remember? Tune in to find out!

On this infectious episode of MurdHer, Dani and Gabe decided to not let their own sickness stop them from recording! Dani covers the maze of characters that is the Sarah Hartsfield case. Sarah had a rough start in life, but from that rough start she was able to figure out the best way to charm and manipulate others. This episode is a wild and confusing ride, so I suggest you take a peak at the MurdHer Instagram post for this episode that has a character cheat sheet posted!

Welcome to season 4 of MurdHer! Dani and Gabe are back with a bang to discuss a story full of twists and turns! Sherri Papinni was your average stay at home mom until, one day, 2 women force her into their black van at gunpoint. Tune in to find out who the real villain is in all of this!     Sources: https://abcnews.go.com/US/vanishing-act-sherri-papini-fooled-investigators-family-phony/story?id=90381451   https://allthatsinteresting.com/sherri-papini   https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sherri-papini-faked-kidnapping-released-federal-prison-rcna101949   https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/19/us/sherri-papini-fake-kidnapping-sentence/index.html Sherri Papini: Lies Lies and More Lies on Peacock

Gabe and Dani go off the rails this episode! This episode has it all.. from Monsterpalooza to murder. Barbara Stager was a recent widow when she met Russell who had recently gone through a divorce. They hit it off and got married soon after. They're married for 9 blissful years when Russel begins telling his closest friends that he's worried his wife might kill him. That's a sign of a healthy relationship right?! Wrong! Listen in to find out if Russel is correct about his wife. As a pallet cleanser Dani then shares a HerStory!! She covers Lyudmila Pavlichenko, also known as Lady Death.   National Domestic Violence Hotline 800-799-7233   SOURCES:  https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/lady-death-red-army-lyudmila-pavlichenko https://www.rejectedprincesses.com/princesses/lyudmila-pavlichenko https://www.history.co.uk/article/lyudmila-pavlichenko-lady-death-historys-deadliest-female-sniper Forensic Files Season 5 ep 14 Oxygen's Black Widow Murders Season 1 episode 6 https://www.oxygen.com/black-widow-murders/crime-news/black-widow-killer-barbara-stager-shot-husband-in-head https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article174912241.html https://murderpedia.org/female.S/s/stager-barbara.htm    

Brandy wanted to be a part of a community, no small feat as a LGBTQ person living in a conservative town. She would often drive hours to meet new people. On May 17, 2012 she went off to meet a new potential friend but never returned. With a lack of help from the police, her mom and friends took it upon themselves to solve her disappearance.   SOURCES: Hulu's How I Caught My Killer Ep 3 https://thecinemaholic.com/jade-olmstead-and-ashley-barber-where-are-the-killers-now/ https://murderpedia.org/female.O/o/olmstead-jade.htm https://www.meadvilletribune.com/news/woman-serving-life-for-love-triangle-murder-has-request-to-withdraw-guilty-plea-denied/article_401957e6-5321-11e8-89a9-5393a75a7737.html

Poison, product tampering, and murder?! Listen to this episode of MurdHer to find out the story of Stella Nickell.   Sources:  https://murderpedia.org/female.N/n/nickell-stella.htm https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/stella-nickell-serving-90-years-for-planting-poisoned-pills-killing-2-seeks-release-from-prison/ https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/woman-convicted-for-tampering-with-excedrin

Love & Death, Candy, A Killing in a Small Town…The Candy Montgomery story has been told and retold through the fictionalized lens of the camera many times. On this week's Murdher, Dani and Gabe dive into the real story of Candy Montgomery and that infamous affair that turned fatal.   Sources: https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/love-and-death-in-silicon-prairie-part-ii-the-killing-of-betty-gore/ https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/love-and-death-in-silicon-prairie-part-i-candy-montgomerys-affair/ https://people.com/crime/people-magazine-investigates-candy-montgomery-suburban-texas-mom-violent-path/ https://people.com/crime/people-magazine-investigates-candy-montgomery-case/ https://www.myimperfectlife.com/features/where-is-candy-montgomery-today

Lana Clayton, a nurse from Oklahoma, led a normal life until she crossed paths with Steve Clayton, a self-made millionaire from Florida with six divorces under his belt. The two immediately fell in love and married, but there was no storybook ending for this relationship. A Crossbow, eye drops, and the hunch of a family member unraveled one of the strangest cases we've uncovered. Tune in to discover the truth about the stranger than fiction tale that rocked South Carolina's quiet town of Lake Wylie.   SOURCES: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lana-steve-clayton-eye-drop-poison-suffer-48-hours/ https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-13749/tetrahydrozoline-ophthalmic-eye/details https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/17/us/visine-eye-drop-poisoning.html https://www.insideedition.com/48-hours-examines-murder-of-steve-clayton-millionaire-husband-poisoned-with-eye-drops-by-wife-lana

On this episode of MurdHer, Dani and Gabe discuss Ana Trujillo. She was smart, gorgeous, and manipulative. She went from a stable, responsible mom to an unemployed couch surfer. We will never know what truly happened on June 9,2013 except that it ended in murder.   Sources:  Possessed: The Infamous Texas Stiletto Murder by Kathryn Casey https://murderpedia.org/female.T/t/trujillo-ana.htm https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/high-heel-homicide/  

A woman with an IQ of 140 and over 38 aliases? You'd think she would be able to get away with murder.. listen in to find out how it goes!

This episode of MurdHer covers Anissa Weier and Morgan Geyser. These 12 year old girls stabbed their best friend as a sacrifice to the fictional, creepypasta monster named Slenderman. SPOILER ALERT: it didn't work.

On this episode of MurdHer we cover Brookey Lee West - the Witch of Vegas. She is considered to be Las Vegas's most notorious female killer. 

On this episode, MurdHer celebrates Valentine's Day with a classic! The Lonely Hearts Killers were a couple who targeted lonely women looking for love. Martha Beck pretended to be Raymond's sister to give their targets a false sense of security.    SOURCES: https://murderpedia.org/female.B/b/beck-martha.htm https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/martha-beck-55090.php https://www.ranker.com/list/lonely-hearts-killers-facts/amandasedlakhevener  

In this episode, we go deeper into how Belle lured her victims to sell everything, move in with her, and managed to kill so many people before being found out. Check out the conclusion of Belle's story.   SOURCES: Hell's Princess: The Mystery of Belle Gunness, Butcher of Men by Harold Schechter https://murderpedia.org/female.G/g/gunness-belle.htm https://allthatsinteresting.com/belle-gunness

In this 2 part episode we deep dive into the infamous Belle Gunness! We first cover Belle's early life and how she worked her way up from paying rent to live with her sister to owning a 40 acre farm. All it took was a few fires and mysterious deaths..   SOURCES: Hell's Princess: The Mystery of Belle Gunness, Butcher of Men by Harold Schechter https://murderpedia.org/female.G/g/gunness-belle.htm https://allthatsinteresting.com/belle-gunness https://www.biography.com/crime-figure/belle-gunness  

It's a holiday extravaganza! On this special holiday episode Dani and Gabe cover the 9 Criminals of Christmas as well as go over some misconceptions about the holiday season and crime.   Story 1: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-sc-woman-stabbed-spouse-with-ceramic-squirrel-over-beer/#:~:text=NORTH%20CHARLESTON%2C%20S.C.%20%E2%80%93%20A%2041,%2C%2044%2C%20was%20arrested%20Dec.   https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/27/domestic-violence-stabbing-squirrel/4228747/ Story 2: https://www.couriermail.com.au/four-bikiniclad-bandits-grab-christmas-lights-and-run-in-tiny-south-johnstone/news-story/f712d6404b292799959f328806cd2978   https://www.oddee.com/item_99190.aspx Story 3: https://www.heraldnet.com/news/man-stabbed-after-giving-girlfriend-knife-for-christmas/   https://www.oddee.com/item_99190.aspx Story 4: https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2014/12/woman-used-towering-marijuana-plant-as-christmas-tree   https://metro.co.uk/2014/12/09/mum-is-busted-for-using-giant-marijuana-plant-as-christmas-tree-4979973/ Story 5: https://www.eonline.com/news/984624/big-brother-s-christmas-abbott-arrested-for-criminal-mischief Story 6: https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/2021/12/05/police-arrest-woman-after-vero-beach-christmas-parade-crash/8879011002/ Story 7: https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-woman-arrested-allegedly-punching-female-head-who-wished-her-merry-christmas-1479928 Story 8: https://www.villages-news.com/2020/12/16/oxford-woman-jailed-after-allegedly-hitting-sister-with-christmas-decoration/ Story 9: https://nypost.com/2019/12/09/florida-woman-attacks-boyfriend-with-fake-christmas-tree-over-tv-volume/

Klara Mauerova was a loving mother to her 2 boys. An unfortunate turn of events led her into a cult and the events that would follow is one of the most horrific stories we've covered to date. Find out how this loving mother became a cult following cannibal.  Content warning: this episode contains graphic torture, child abuse, and cannibalism

On this week of MurdHer we cover Amelia Dyer, The Baby Farmer. Amelia murdered anywhere from 4-300+ babies for financial gain. She took advantage of a system that preyed on women for her own gain. Listen in to hear about one of the most cold blooded killers to date.   SOURCES:  Amelia Dyer and the Baby Farm Murders by Angela Buckle  https://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/serial-killers/amelia-dyer/ https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-39330793 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_Dyer

Dorothea Puente opened a boarding house in the 1980s and took in people with mental illness and disabilities. She was an elder, kind looking woman who was filling a need the community had. When the residents began to disappear police began to ask questions. 

This weeks episode of MurdHer brings us a different kind of story. It is the story of Miriam Rodriguez. After her daughter was kidnapped she did everything she could to get her daughter back.. including hunting down cartel members herself.     Sources:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/13/world/americas/miriam-rodriguez-san-fernando.html https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/12/mexican-woman-who-uncovered-cartel-murder-of-daughter-shot-dead-miriam-rodriguez https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Fernando,_Tamaulipas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas  

We're back!! Season 2 is starting off with a very spooky episode where we cover some special witches. First we cover Baba Anujka who made magical love potions that resulted in death. Next we cover Rose Veras who know as the Witch of Delray. However, she may not be as witchy as her blue eyes make her appear.

Season finale is available now! We explain why we went radio silent and discuss Pam Hupp! Pam hears that her old coworker and friend, Betsy, who she hasn't spoken to in years has terminal cancer. She selflessly forces herself into Betsy's life and helps Betsy out by driving her to doctors appointments and giving her a shoulder to lean on. However, Pam has a dark, ulterior motive behind her seemingly selfless acts.

As a young, Irish immigrant in the late 1800's "Jolly" Jane Toppan faced many hardships. Sold into indentured servitude as a child, Jane went on to become a respected and well paid nurse, which is where her lust for death bloomed. What could have been an inspirational story of perseverance in the face of xenophobia took a dark turn. To this day it is unknown how many people she murdered, but it could be in the hundreds.

Dani and Gabe discuss Myra Hindley, "the most hated woman in Britain", on this week's MurdHer: Women in Crime. TW: Violence against minors.

Laurie Bembenek had been fired from her job as a police trainee. She tried to move on and got a new job and even got married. Life took a turn when her husbands ex wife was murdered and Laurie became the prime suspect. She had no alibi, motive, and the means to commit the murder... but this case isn't as clear cut as it seems

Gwendolyn and Catherine met while working a nursing home. Sparks immediately flew and they fell deeply in love. Naturally, one day their conversation turned to murdering patients at the nursing home. What better way to prove your love than murdering helpless victims? Tune in to find out how it went!

Aileen Wuornos was called "America's first female serial killer" after murdering at least 7 men in 1989/90. More is known about her crimes than her past, but what we do know paints the picture of a young girl* who was taken advantage of at every turn. On this episode we dive into the history, murders, and eventual execution of AIleen Wuornos.

Juana Barraza had a rough start to life. After her mother passed away she moved away to start over. She started a career as a professional wrestler and things seemed to be looking up for her. However, she is now known as "The Old Lady Killer" and has been accused of murdering up to 49 women. 

Linda Hazzard left her husband and 2 kids in the early 1900s to pursue a career in medicine. After becoming a doctor she opened a sanitarium that used fasting to treat anything from insomnia to cancer. Behind the walls of the sanitarium something sinister was going on. Linda was a master manipulator who targeted desperate people and convinced them to starve themselves to death under the guise of healing any ailments they may have. 

Stacey Castor was a loving mother and wife. But then she changed her fate with a murderous twist. Just how far was she willing to go? Listen in for a while ride with plot twists galore!

Happy April Fools! We have a special episode for everyone today that includes the infamous "antifreeze killer"!!!

This week on MurdHer we talk about Yolanda Saldivar! She went from nurse to the fan base president for music star Selena. After gaining Selena's trust she committed the ultimate betrayal. 

When Kim Cargill faced the possibility of losing her child to protective services, she decided to take matters into her own hands. She lured her babysitter into her car and then murdered her to prevent her from testifying. Find out how far this mom was willing to go to keep her kids.