Aldo B. Martin Presents: The Reclamation

"An audience is in some sense timeless...an artist must trust his audience, and know that his audience trusts him and he cannot cheat that invisible one or two or multitude of people.  Between him...and that audience, there is an unspoken bond, an unspoken promise not to betray..."    - James BaldwinSupport the showStay updated on Aldo's current and future projects by signing up for his NewsletterOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The PodcastTo get in touch with Aldo, you can find him on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook

My thoughts on the word cult.  Support the showStay updated on Aldo's current and future projects by signing up for his NewsletterOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The PodcastTo get in touch with Aldo, you can find him on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook

Today we speak with Dr. Patrick Knapp, PhD who, along with is wife, Heidi Knapp, CLC, runs an organization called Becoming Free where they "assist people to better understand and recover from their unique harmful religious or spiritual experiences and  the painful relational dynamics of family estrangement."  Their goal is "to support people to process their abusive experiences for improved insight, emotional growth, relational healing and spiritual development."  They believe that this can be  "accomplished through life-recovery coaching, periodic support and recovery groups, and various online and in-person educational resources.”Dr. Knapp is also the author of “Understanding Religious Abuse and Recovery: Discovering Essential Principles for Hope and Healing” where he discusses different perspectives on how people best understand and recover from religious abuse. In addition, Dr. Knapp and Heidi Knapp are contributing authors to a book called Wounded Faith where they write a chapter about marital repair after being a part of a religiously abusive situation.  Dr. Knapp speaks with us today about his experience in a bible-based cult and how that has helped to shape the work that he has been doing since 1984.  Dr. Knapp can be reached at becomingfree.org or you can email him at becomingfree.org@gmail.comSupport the showStay updated on Aldo's current and future projects by signing up for his NewsletterOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The PodcastTo get in touch with Aldo, you can find him on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook

Today we speak with Alan Allard.  Alan was a psychotherapist in private practice for 12 years in the Chicago suburbs. Since 2005 he has been a coach and is an expert in helping abuse and trauma victims take ownership of their life and begin to thrive. He works with clients who have experienced sexual abuse, abusive relationships, adverse childhood experiences, and especially spiritual and religious abuse.More specifically, Alan has spent many years as a therapist or coach to members of the ICOC or similar religious organizations.  It should also be mentioned that he was a member of the ICOC in Chicago, from 1987 until the year 2000.  Alan speaks to us today about those days when he was a therapist, in part, to members of the ICOC and how what was discussed in his therapy sessions was a contradiction with what the church taught.Alan discusses the concept of Personal Agency vs. Spiritual Authority and how the latter has been used to undermine the former.  Alan further explains that if one isn't the authority in their own life, then they will find someone or something to fill that void.  He also speaks to us about the idea of blind obedience or toxic trust and it's potential harmful impact within the context of spiritual authority.  Alan is the author of Enlightened Happiness: Seven Secrets to the Life You Were Meant to live available on amazon.com. To get in contact with Alan, you can reach him at AlanAllard.com or LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanallard/.  He has a private Facebook group, "Growing Through Adversity: How to Own Your Life and Thrive you are welcome to check out--contact Alan for a link to the group.Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The PodcastTo enroll in Aldo B. Martin's Podcast Course, contact him at aldobmartinpodcast@gmail.com or you can find him on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook

In February 2003, the Henry Kriete Letter was released.  He titled it "Honest to God."  The letter's impact was immediate.  Aldo has always wondered why the letter had such an impact.  "Honest to God" was not the first time that criticisms of the church were penned, published, and distributed.  However, those writings did not have the same impact that the letter did.  Why?  Aldo concludes that the reason for the immediate impact of the letter was due to "our level of indoctrination."   Aldo asserts that had Henry Kriete not been a standing evangelist with the organization, his letter would not have had the immediate impact that it did, as the organization was a "self sealing system."  Aldo didn't read the letter back then.  He skimmed it.  However, he finally read it 20 years later and gives us his thoughts.  He also invited two previous guests from Season 2 to join him.  Del from London and Tricia from Kentucky sat down with Aldo and had a discussion about the letter's impact.  Del first read it 20 years ago and re-read it for this discussion, while Tricia has never read it until now.  They discuss a variety of topics in regards to the letter, such as:                - the reason for the letter's impact            - the letter's intended audience.            - the letter's indication of the subculture that existed within the group            - why is the letter still discussed 20 years later            - the letter's argument for the church being a "cult of personality."Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The PodcastTo enroll in Aldo B. Martin's Podcast Course, contact him at aldobmartinpodcast@gmail.com or you can find him on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook

Long before the Henry Kriete Letter was delivered to the hands of ICOC members around the globe, the brothers and sisters of the London Church of Christ set the table.   The regular disciples of that church began to speak up about the injustices that they've experienced.  It seems that they did so because they wanted to preserve and protect the church that they loved from continuing their harmful practices.   They held open forums and created the working groups.  Today, we are going to hear from three men who were present at one of these meetings.  The three of them sat down to have a conversation and recollected the tone and outcome of that meeting.  The original meeting took place on February 1, 2003.  This episode is being released on February 1, 2023.  Twenty years to the day.  Why is this important?  Simply put, notion of such a meeting and it's subsequent minutes  demonstrate that the issues that the ICOC has had and continues to have, according to the people that have recently left, are not new.  The issues have been spoken about before.  The issues have been written about before.  As former members attempt to make sense of what they were a part of, it is important to take a look back, in order to move forward.   Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The PodcastTo enroll in Aldo B. Martin's Podcast Course, contact him at aldobmartinpodcast@gmail.com or you can find him on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook

Shortly before the release of Henry Kriete's letter in early  2003, the London Church of Christ experienced an upheaval.  The members of the London Church of Christ spoke up and against the systemic failures of their congregation.  As a result, members of the London Church of Christ formed a "Working Group."  The "Working Group" was comprised of paid staff members and unpaid members of their church.  They were tasked with addressing the issues of the church and to create a path moving forward.  As these meetings took place, notes, or minutes, were taken at these meetings.  Elena and Aldo got a hold of the minutes for one of these particular meetings.  Elena and Aldo could not help but to notice that the issues addressed at this particular meeting in 2003, were similar to the issues that the "Discipling Dilemma" brought up in 1988.  Join them as they discuss what stood out to them.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The PodcastTo enroll in Aldo B. Martin's Podcast Course, contact him at aldobmartinpodcast@gmail.comTo get in touch with Aldo, you can find him on TwitterInstagramFacebook

The "Discipling Dilemma" by Dr. Flavil Yeakley Jr, is at the crux of season 3.  Christina, Chris T, Jenn, and Matthew met with Aldo to discuss their views on the book.  The five of them all joined the church in different years.  In addition they also represent different parts of the church; London 1988, North Carolina 1990, New York City 1995 and 2000, Los Angeles 2001.  Some of the topics raised in the book and discussed on this episode:- The ICOC resembling a multi level marketing system.- "The Discipling Dilemma" finding good qualities in the ICOC- Members conforming to the desired personality type- Results of the Myers-Briggs Personality Exam.- Recommendations to the church made by the authorsThe five person panel discuss how elements of this book, which was published in 1988 provided some insight into their individual experiences with the organization.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The PodcastTo enroll in Aldo B. Martin's Podcast Course, contact him at aldobmartinpodcast@gmail.comTo get in touch with Aldo, you can find him on TwitterInstagramFacebook

Dr. Jerry Jones joined the Boston Movement in 1984.  Prior to joining the Boston Movement, Dr. Jones was a member of the traditional Church of Christ.  As a member of the Boston Movement, he was a bible talk leader, evangelist and was finally appointed as an elder with the Boston Church of Christ.   The leadership of the Boston Movement were more than happy to have Dr. Jones as a member of the organization as he "would bring tremendous credibility to the Movement" because "up to that time he was the Head of the Bible Department at Harding University."  Dr. Jones left the organization in 1986 because of his concerns with what the Movement taught.  He then wrote and published a book called "What Does the Boston Movement Teach?"  where he uses primary sources to demonstrate what the title of the book indicates.  Dr. Jones then went on to publish 2 more volumes of this book.  Dr. Jones shares with us his recollection of his time spent with the group and the reasons why he left, and his motivation for writing his books.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The PodcastTo enroll in Aldo B. Martin's Podcast Course, contact him at aldobmartinpodcast@gmail.comTo get in touch with Aldo, you can find him on TwitterInstagramFacebook

Today, Elena and Christina take the wheel and speak with Tina.  Tina joined the London Church of Christ in 1985.  The three of them discuss the church's annual event called "Women's Day."  The trio discuss the differences and similarities between the "Women's Day" events in New York City and in London.  Tina also discusses her conversion as the creation of a family and  a series of sermons cassette tapes is what helped to convert her.  Tina also discusses joining a mission team to Lagos, Nigeria.  She tells us what is was like to join and be a part of a mission team as they planted a new church on a different continent.  Tina also explains to us her process of finally leaving the organization.  Join Elena, Christina, and Tina for some laughs and stories.  Wait...where's Aldo?Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

It's been a long week.  This is what I think...**Disclaimer:  the pending lawsuit is NOT a class action lawsuit and all accusations are alleged.**Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Michele Roland and Senator Joseph Dunn sit down with us today to discuss pending litigation that has been filed against the International Church of Christ, the International Christian Church, HOPE World Wide, MERCY World Wide, and the City of Angels International Christian Church.  Both Ms. Roland and Senator Dunn are a part of the case and speak to us about how this came about and why.  They talk to us about their involvement with the case and discuss what to expect in the coming days and weeks as it pertains to the pending lawsuit.  To learn more about Senator Joseph Dunn, visit The Zero Abuse Project To learn more about Michelle Roland, visit Whatheflok.comIf you or someone you know has a story and would like to come forward please reach out to Michele Roland at CheleRoland@icloud.com Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

**Some of the content of this episode deals with suicidal ideations and self injury.  If you or anyone you now is need of support in that area, please contact the suicide and crisis lifeline**Today we meet Nicole.  Nicole is a  Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) and currently works as a psychotherapist.  For a little over a decade, Nicole has had experience in counseling a wide variety of people including members of the LGTBQ+ community.  Nicole has also provided counseling to college students, patients with HIV, and people who live with substance abuse.  Nicole also works with members of the BIPOC community and other groups that might be considered to be marginalized. Nicole identifies as a member of the LGTBQ+ community and is a former member of the ICOC.  Nicole explains to us what her experience was a like as a person who identifies as gay and as a member of the church.   Nicole believes that in speaking, the voices of other members of the queer/LGTBQ+ collective can be heard and seen as well.  Nicole can be found on instagram @strength_in_truth_lgtbqIf you would like more information or support regarding the LGTBQ+ community, check out the following links:GaychurchThe Reformation ProjectThe Trevor ProjectTranslifelineSupport the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Hugh became a member of the Church of Christ in 1982.  He then made a cross country drive, from California to Massachusetts to  join the Boston Movement in 1985.  Hugh has spent time as a teen worker and eventually joined the full time ministry and became a leader with the movement.  Hugh speaks with us about establishing a marriage, raising a family, while being a leader with the church.  Like many people that have already appeared on the podcast, Hugh defines himself as being a committed member at one point in his life.  His commitment is evidenced by the fact that he moved over 30 times for the purpose of attempting to meet the needs of the church.  Hugh also talks to us about what his views are now regarding his time spent with the organization.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Today we speak with Chris Lee.  Chris is the curator of REVEAL.org.  Since the 1990's, REVEAL has been a source of information and solace for the community of former members.  I use the term "curator" to describe Chris because REVEAL is source where one can find a variety of articles, testimonies, and other documents that pertain to the ICOC experience.  The ICOC has referred to REVEAL and it's contents as "spiritual pornography."  However, thousands of former members have used REVEAL as a place to help them understand what they were a part of.  Chris tells us about how he became a member and then a former member.  He also talks to us about how he got on board with REVEAL.org. Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Before there was a Reclamation Podcast there was the YouTube channel called “Losing My Religion.”  The creator and host of the program joins us today.  Her name is Helen and she too is a former member of the ICOC.  She speaks to us about the idea and inspiration behind the creation of her YouTube channel.  Helen also talks to us about her experience in the church.  She tells us how she joined.  She explains to us why she left.  She gives the reasons as to why she does what she does today.  To find out more about Helen and the work that she does check out Losing My Religion on YouTubeSupport the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Today we speak with Chris T.  Chris joined the church as a college student in the early 1990s.  He remained a member for the better part of that decade.  He talks about his upbringing and how it played a factor in his joining the church.  Chris talks to us about his personality and how it did not necessarily fit into the culture of the section of the church that he was a part of.  While Chris' story is unique, there are elements of his experience that are parallel to the experiences of others regardless of time and physical space.  Chris' story is about a man who has had to grapple with much in life.  After many years and much work, he is now in a place where he is able to put words to his experiences and can make sense of it all.Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

People leave the ICOC for a variety of reasons.  Some leave because their personal believes no longer mesh with the practices of the organization.  Not everyone who has left leaves with a furry of negativity.  Sometimes, people leave because they simply have outgrown the organization.  Today we speak with Alejandra.  She was a member of the organization for 20 years.  She joined as a member of the campus ministry.  She was a part of the singles ministry.  She then became a part of the marrieds ministry.  She has experienced this church through out the different phases of her adulthood.  She talks to us about why she joined and talks to us about why she left.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

In our second and final segment of our conversation with Melissa, she tells us more about being a student in the ICCM.  She talks to us about the financial sacrifice that was expected of her and the type of effect that it had on her.  She talks about feeling trapped by the ICC and their methods and how this feeling of being trapped made her feel that she had to escape from the organization.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

The ICOC is birthed from the COC and the Crossroads Movement.  The ICC is birthed from the ICOC.  Today we meet Melissa who joined the ICC in 2019 and left recently.  Melissa tells the story of a young person who was in search of belonging and community and found it in the ICC.  Her story is not different from the various stores that we have heard already.  She also talks about her experience as a student with the ICCM.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Ini tells us how the church helped him to get his life together.   Despite this, Ini left.  He begins to tell us why.  Ini mentions the term “spiritual abuse” and explains why this phrase is troublesome to him as it pertains to the ICC.   In states that his time with the church was very positive for the most part.  However, as he witnessed the manner in which others were treated, he began his movement away from the organization.  Ini had to make a decision as his relationship with the church was having an effect on his relationship with his family.   Despite leaving the organilzation several years ago, Ini states that he has begun his healing process fairly recently.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Today we speak with Ini.  Ini is a former member of the International Christian Church, or ICC for short.   Ini tells us why he wanted to lend his voice to the collective that is the Reclamation Podcast.   Ini  was a part of the ICC in London, England.   He was a member from 2009 up until 2013.   Upon joining, he wasn't aware of the ICC's previous history or relationship to the ICOC.  Ini recounts and retells the unorthodox manner in which he first came in contact with the organization.   At this point in the program, we have heard many stories and many of the themes are similar and bleed into one another in some form or fashion.  What's interesting about Ini's story is that, despite a lapse in time and a difference in organization, the experience is similar if not the same to those that have appeared on the program before him.   Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

As we recap the previous set of episodes, Elena tells us about her experience as a member of the teen ministry.  She explains  some of the positive and negative moments of that time in her life.  She then asks Aldo on what his experience on doing this podcast has been like for the past 12 months.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Jenn from LA rejoins us.  This time, she joins us with her daughter, Amanda.  Amanda, at the time of this recording is, 18 years old.  Amanda wanted to join us because she wanted to discuss the teen ministry experience.  Amanda, was never baptized into the church, but she was a part of teen ministry nonetheless, as she attended all of the meetings, etc.  Amanda was asked if there was a pressure placed upon her to get baptized, and she gives us her take on that.  Amanda talks to us about exclusion and relationships.  Jenn, speaking as the parent, indicated that the relationship that the church had with her children was a tipping point for her and her family.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

*Trigger Warning*  Some of the content of this episode might be disturbing to some listeners.  Listener descretion is advisedCarter tells us more about his experience with the church.  Carter explains, in graphic detail, some of the things that he was taught.  It should be noted that what Carter was taught, was not common practices through out the ICOC.  However, the liberty that those who lead him took in creating such graphic teachings, may speak to the nature of the organization as a whole.  In other words, if the teachings ensured that Carter would remain a faithful member, then, his leaders might argue that the ends justifies the means.  Carter's story, like all of the other stories, is the story of an individual and it may or may not resonate with the experiences of others.  Carter states that he does not think that he has recovered from his experience with the organization.  He tells us more about his experience with the teen ministry.   He also talks about having complex PTSD.   Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Today we meet Carter.  Carter referes to himself as a kingdom kid.  I explains what this term means to him and how it was applied within the ICOC.  Carter got baptized as a teenager and became a part of the teen ministry.  He reflects on his time with the church and recounts the pressure that he felt.  Carter describes himself as introverted and how this characteristic was not welcomed in the part of the organization that he congregated with.  Carter speaks to us about what the discipling partner relationship looked like between a teenager and an adult.     Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

In our second and final segment of our interview with Nick, he begins to tell us about some of the red flags that he's noticed from time to time.  Nick describes himself as a totally committed member.  Despite his history of commitment, grace was not afforded to him when he decided act in his own best interest.  Nick recounts instances where the culture of imitation presented itself.  He also tells us about his process of finally leaving the organization.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:Jammin' on the One The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Today we speak with Nick.  Nick joined the organization in 1995 and left around 2020.  During his time with the church he was a teen worker and eventually became a member of the full time ministry.  Being a teen worker with the ICOC, was an exhaustive task.  As a teen worker, one must dedicate the majority of their time and energy to help guide and support the teenage members of the organization.  He also talks to us about his training and expectations as a full time member of the staff.  Nick's experience with the church was filled with a variety of moving parts, much like the experience of many members of the organization.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Christina and Aldo continue their discussion around Sue Condon's Diary.  Christina shares how her views on the church have changed from the beginning of appearing on the podcast, up until now.  Although the document was written many years ago, and from the perspective of one person, some of its' elements apply and seem to give validity to the experiences of many other former members.  Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

Christina and Aldo sit down and discuss  Sue Condon's Diary: The Emperor's New Clothes.    This document, amongst others, pertains to the Boston Movement, also known as The International Church of Christ.  Mrs. Condon writes this document through the eyes and experience of one who was a leader within the organization.  Mrs. Codon writes about the effect that the organization had on her and her family.  Aldo and Christina discuss this document as well as a few minor details pertaining to UNO and pop trivia.   Support the showOther Podcasts by Aldo B. Martin:The Fatherhood Project YALD. The Podcast

This is our second and final segment of our conversation with Sherri.   She talks to us about the culture of dating within the organization.  She talks about expectations and restrictions that were placed on people.  Sherri mentions that these restrictions were placed on people in the name of being pure and maintaining purity.  Sherri talks about the notion of church members having to have certain elements of their lives approved by leaders in the organization.  Sherri and her husband were able to create a great life for themselves despite some of these restrictions.  However, Sherri recognizes that this was not the case for some people.  Sherri also shares her thoughts on where things might have gone awry.  Support the show

In discussing what we've discussed for the past one hundred or so episodes, sometimes we have to remember why people get involved with certain organizations.  Today we meet Sherri.  Sherri joined the Boston Movement in 1980 as a college freshman.  Sherri tells us about her life before joining the church and how things were after joining the church.  Sherri was intrigued by how the Bible was taught to her in a practical manner.  In addition to enjoying what she learned, she was also impressed by the people that taught her and taught those around her.   Eventually Sherri left the organization in 2003.  She tells us about her experience in her 23 years as a member.  A small segment of this episode, slightly touches on the subject of suicide.  If you or anyone you know require support in that area, please visit: https://988lifeline.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=oneboxSupport the show

In this episode, Elena from 3B shares her thoughts on our conversations with Mr. Norton, Gene Vinzant, James Lloyd, and El.   Aldo might even say a word or two...Support the show

In the second and final installment of our conversation with El, she tells us about an event and the impact that the event had on her life.  She also discusses how the event impacted her relationship with the church going forward.  El had demonstrated a lot of courage and bravery in coming forward with her story.  TRIGGER WARNING: The following episode contains conversations revolving around sexual assault and suicidal ideations.   If you or anyone you know need support regarding sexual assault, support can be found at https://www.rainn.org/resources.  Furthermore, contact https://988lifeline.org if you or anyone that you know are in need of support regarding suicidal thoughts and ideations.  Support the show

Today we meet El.  El was what we would call a Kingdom Kid.  Her parents were disciples in the ICOC.  She never became a baptized member of the church, but she grew up in the organization as her parents enrolled her in the youth ministry.  For a variety of reasons, El states that she believed that she never really fit in with the church.  Upon turning 18, she made the decision to not return to the church.   El begins to share with us an event that had a profound impact on her life going forward.  Some of the content in this episode mentions the act of self harming.  If you or someone you know needs support in that area, then please use the following link to find support:  https://www.crisistextline.org/topics/self-harm/#what-is-self-harm-1Support the show

We continue our conversation with James Lloyd.  He talks to us about the legacy of the Crossroads Movement and the impact that it had on the Boston Movement (which would eventually become the International Church of Christ).  James begins to tell us about eventually leaving the organization and what his thoughts are on what he was a part of.  James talks to us about perspective, the value of honesty, self forgiveness, and learning from others.    Support the show

Today we meet James Lloyd.  James was an evangelist with the International Church of Christ.  James is also one of the famed "30 would be disciples" that began the ICOC in Lexington, MA in 1979.   James got baptized into the traditional Church of Christ and then joined the Boston Movement.   James eventually went on to be on the mission team that planted the church in London in 1982.  James sits down with us today and recounts his early years with  the Boston Movement and what it was like at that time.  Support the show

This is our second and final segment with Gene Vinzant, one of the authors/contributors to "The Discipling Dilemma."   Gene tells us how the Boston Movement reacted to Dr. Yeakleys' study.  One of the most telling statements regarding the impact of the Boston Movement is when the book is quoted as saying  "in the years since this book was written, counselors in virtually every city, where this radical movement exists, are now being flooded with clients who are psychological,  emotional, and spiritual victims of this authoritarian movement."  Although Dr. Yeakley did not want to use the word "cult" to describe the book, it seems that his research lead him to such a conclusion.  Gene even finds a copy of Dr. Yeakleys' own copy of the book, which was full of "notes" and provides some more insigh into to how this book was received at the time of its publishing.  Support the show

Today we speak with Gene Vinzant.  Gene is one of the contributors to "The Discipling Dilemma."  Gene was a research assistant at the time that the book was written and published.   In this episode, he helps us to decipher some of the meanings behind the results of the personality study that was conducted with the ICOC in the mid 1980s.  He also explains to us what the term "ESFJ" means as it pertains to the Boston Movement at that time.    Support the show

In the second and final installment of our conversation with Mr. Norton, he tells us why he thought the Boston Movement's autocratic and authoritarian approach was harmful.   Mr. Norton recalls his interactions with members of the Boston Movement and how those interactions gave him glimpses into how the Boston Movement operated in the lives of its members.   "The Discipling Dilemma" was published in 1988.   This book is a serious, documented study that analyzes the discipling movement objectively, pointing out both strengths and weaknesses for careful consideration by leaders and members of other churches of Christ. https://www.amazon.com/Discipling-Dilemma-Movement-Churches-Christ/dp/0892253118Join our Facebook Group to be a part of the conversation https://www.facebook.com/groups/405397444821662/Support the show

I just wanted to share this little story with you...Support the show

Today we are joined by Mr. Howard W. Norton.  Mr. Norton is one of the authors of "The Discipling Dilemma."  Mr. Norton worked closely with Dr. Flavil Yeakley, Don Vinzant, and Gene Vinzant to put this project together.  Although Mr. Norton has never been a member of the ICOC, he has been a member of the traditional Church of Christ for about 70 years.    He sits down with us and offers us some insight to the creation of the book.  "The Discipling Dilemma" was published in 1988.   This book is a serious, documented study that analyzes the discipling movement objectively, pointing out both strengths and weaknesses for careful consideration by leaders and members of other churches of Christ. https://www.amazon.com/Discipling-Dilemma-Movement-Churches-Christ/dp/0892253118Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/405397444821662/Support the show

Christina from season 1 joins us as one our co-hosts this season.  Our discussion begins with a comparison between two words: spirituality and personality.  Was the church led by an ethos that was based off of spirituality or personality?  Was one's good standing with the church based off of spirituality or personality?  Was the status of one's relationship with God based off of spirituality or personality?  Join Aldo and Christina as they discuss these concepts, persecution,  yellow pants,  and more.  Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/405397444821662/Support the show

Season 1 began with a story.  Season 2 began with "the letter".  Season 3 begins with "the book."   The book is called "The Discipling Dilemma" by Dr. Flavil Yeakley, Jr. and it is about the Boston Movement, which would eventually become the International Church of Christ.  The book puts into question the practices of the church from its beginnings.  People join religious groups all of the time; this isn't a new concept.  Some religious organizations are branded with the term "cult" on a frequent basis, thus leading to discussions, disagreements, and arguments about what is a cult and what isn't.  However, what if a religious organization calls for you to change what you are?  What if a religious organization leads one to conclude that their authentic self isn't good enough?  Aldo and Elena discuss these concepts, the book, and more in the season 3 opener.Join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/405397444821662/Support the show

Season 3 premiers on September 4, 2022Support: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/aldobmartinSupport the show

Thank you for listening.  We hope that you've enjoyed the program.  

The process of leaving the church was not a simple one for Aldo.  Everything in Aldo's world began to change.  He was in a new school.  He was in a new part of the church.  He interacted with people who were not who they professed to be.  He interacted with people that he had misjudged thus causing him to question his beliefs even more.  The emergence of the letter and its subsequent effects on the church, would also have an effect on Aldo.  As the church changed, it caused Aldo to question why he was still a part of the church.  

As we begin to wrap-up season 2, Elena joins us for her final recap of the season.  She shares her thoughts on Robin from Oklahoma, Chris from Los Angeles, Del from New York, and Jenn from Los Angeles. 

Jenn embarks on a new chapter in her life.  She remarried.  However, before getting married she was met with much opposition from the church.  The church did not view Jenn's eventual husband as a christian because he belonged to a different church.  The church taught Jenn that her late husband was not a christian because he was not a member of the ICOC.  The church taught her that the only way for her children to become christians was through the ICOC's system of teachings.  She was taught that her eventual husband is not in line with God because he was not a member of the ICOC.  After years of following the church's self created rules and regulations, Jenn began to speak up for her late husband, her children, her new husband, and for herself.    To learn more about Jenn and her story,  check out https://linktr.ee/jjoslerbolton

Jenn begins the second part of our conversation by telling us of a tragedy that befell her family.  The church rallied around Jenn and her family as they helped her to cope with what happened.  However, the tragedy also sparked a new found courage in Jenn that caused her to view the church in another light.  Jenn began to view the church and God as two separate entities.  She no longer saw an allegiance to the church as being the same as having a relationship with God.  She became confident and vocal about her new found beliefs.  However, it was at this stage that her relationship with some members of the church began to change.  To learn more about Jenn and her story,  visit her at  https://linktr.ee/jjoslerbolton

In what is now episode 53 of season 2, we meet Jenn from the greater Los Angeles area.  Jenn became a member in 2001 in her early twenties.  Unlike the rest of our guests, she joined the organization with her husband - who happened to baptize her.  Jenn's story is complicated as her life has gone through a variety of ups and downs; tragedies and happy occasions.  In the first part of our conversation, Jenn reflects on the factors that lead up to her joining the church.  She tells us about her frame of mind as a new member.  Like the rest of us, Jenn was enamored with this new community that she had just become a part of.  Despite this new found happiness and sense of belonging, Jenn's husband, left the organization a few months after being baptized.  Jenn, however remained a member of the church.  This dynamic tugged and pulled at different elements of of Jenn's life.  Join us as she shares her story.  To learn more about Jenn and her story,  visit her at  https://linktr.ee/jjoslerbolton