Podcasts about 3B

On August 4, Brian Szytel recaps a massive cross-asset rally as markets price hopes of a deal to reopen the Strait of Hormuz: oil fell 6% to $75, the 10-year yield dropped 7 bps to 4.61%, and stocks and bonds rose (Dow +907, S&P +1.8%, Nasdaq +2.6% led by semis/AI). He notes the market has become desensitized to Middle East risk and remains skewed upward with major indexes up 12.5%–14% YTD, but highlights unusually violent, bifurcated single-stock moves around earnings as investors struggle to discount AI impacts amid accounting and borrowing stresses. He warns leverage amplifies drawdowns, citing July deleveraging and a 4:1-levered AI hedge fund collapsing after a 67% drawdown. Economic data: job openings 7.3M (in line/slightly low), factory orders -0.3% vs +0.3% expected, trade deficit $73.3B. He answers a viewer question on inflation, explaining the Fed can influence money supply via its balance sheet but can't directly control velocity, relying on multiple tools including interest on reserves, and references efforts to shift narratives back toward market-set pricing. 00:00 Market Rally Recap 00:16 Oil Rates And Geopolitics 01:50 Year To Date Performance 02:10 Wild Stock Reactions 02:56 AI Accounting And Volatility 03:33 Leverage And Hedge Funds 04:41 Economic Data Check 05:26 Fed Money Supply Question 05:57 How The Fed Tools Work 07:47 Wrap Up And Sign Off Links mentioned in this episode: DividendCafe.com TheBahnsenGroup.com

Nearly 30 years into marriage, Laurie sits down with the person who has watched it all unfold up close — her husband, Phil. The late nights. The hard calls. The moments she carried more than she let on.This conversation is about what it actually takes to support a Wedding Pro — not just the surface-level cheerleading, but the daily reality of loving someone who is expected to be decisive and organized and endlessly warm, all at once. Phil talks about how his understanding of that pressure has shifted over the years, why the instinct to "fix" can land as dismissive, and what support really looks like when the calendar is full and the person you love is running on empty.Laurie also introduces her "cargo plane" theory of burnout — why planners are trained to carry weight for everyone else, and how something as simple as a real check-in can be the difference between steady and overloaded.The conversation goes deeper still, into the season that changed everything: Phil's stage 3B colon cancer diagnosis, the surgeries and chemo that followed, and the strange reality of a business — and a life — that kept moving regardless. They close on hope, identity, and the empty-nester chapter ahead, along with why community matters so much for planners and coordinators who need people who actually understand the weight of this work.Subscribe for honest conversations about building a sustainable career in this industry, share this episode with a Wedding Pro who needs to hear it, and leave a review to help more planners find us.www.cwpsociety.com | info@cwpsociety.com | IG: @cwpsociety | FB: @cwpsociety

Why do some people seem to create opportunities wherever they go while others spend years waiting for the right break? According to Cate Hall — lawyer turned poker player turned drug addict turned CEO of a $3B foundation — the difference isn't luck. It's the ability to question assumptions, reject the default path, and realize the world is far more malleable than it seems. In this episode, Rufus and Cate explore what it really means to become a high-agency person — a.k.a. someone who just does things. Together, they unpack why ambition isn't the same as agency, how fear of embarrassment and an obsession with hard work hold us back, and why curiosity, unconventional thinking, and expanding your "surface area for luck" are the keys to creating extraordinary opportunities. Cate's new book, You Can Just Do Things, is out now.

On today's episode, Editor in Chief Sarah Wheeler talks with Lead Analyst Logan Mohtashami about the Fed meeting and where mortgage rates are likely headed. Related to this episode: Hawks Lorie Logan and Beth Hammack run the Fed for now HousingWire | YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ HousingWire AI Summit – August 11 HousingWire Mortgage Banking Summit – October 1 More info about HousingWire The Top 5: Fed pauses rates again as Middle East tensions risk hotter inflation Hawks Lorie Logan and Beth Hammack run the Fed for now Pennymac trims lending, fulfillment roles in layoff round Foreign buyers purchased $45.3B in U.S. existing homes, NAR says Real estate brokers say rising mortgage rates derail early 2026 housing rebound Want more from Sarah? Don't forget to subscribe! The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate.

Nvidia committed $5B to Ilya Sutskever's SSI and weighed a $250B backstop for OpenAI's Ohio megaproject. CXMT soared 466% in its debut, Amazon filed for 5,105 satellites, Apple delayed AI glasses, and Peacock landed on YouTube Premium. Sources: Nvidia has committed to invest $5B in Ilya Sutskever's SSI; the startup has previously raised about $3B in funding and was valued at $32B last year (Bloomberg) Sources: Nvidia is in talks to guarantee ~$250B in financing for a 10 GW SoftBank data center project in southern Ohio that OpenAI is in advanced talks to lease; the site could cost $500B+ (WSJ) CXMT's stock closed up 466% in its Shanghai debut, giving the Hefei-based memory chipmaker a ~$487B market cap, making it the most valuable China-listed company (CNBC) Amazon files an FCC application to deploy a constellation of up to 5,105 satellites starting in 2028 to provide direct-to-device voice and data connectivity (Reuters) Sources: Apple may have delayed AI glasses launch partly over privacy concerns that Meta's glasses created for the category, as it works to address the issues (Bloomberg) NBCU and YouTube reach a multiyear deal to include all Peacock content in YouTube Premium subscriptions in the US starting in early 2027 (CNBC) Subscribe to the ad-free feed. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Il podcast della 3B dell' ITT Alvaro alto di Torino

Il podcast della 3B dell' IIS Peano di Torino

Stripe was in talks to buy OpenRouter for as much as $10B while still chasing PayPal. Midjourney bought astrology app Co-Star, Meta launched Facebook Verified and a standalone Seller app, and Nvidia and Microsoft defended open-weight AI. Sources: Stripe is in talks to acquire OpenRouter, which helps developers use AI models and could fetch ~$10B; PitchBook: OpenRouter was valued at $1.3B in May (WSJ) Sources: Stripe and Advent's unsolicited $53B PayPal offer, backed by ~$50B in committed bank financing, would create a payments giant processing ~$3.7T annually; PayPal has not responded (Reuters) Midjourney bought astrology app Co-Star, which uses AI to offer personalized advice, in the spring and is building its first standalone image-generation app (Bloomberg) Meta launches Facebook Verified, a free program it says will verify that users are real humans by analyzing a facial recognition selfie and assigning badges (Engadget) Meta launches Seller, a free standalone app version of Facebook Marketplace; Seller includes AI features that scan photos to fill out listings automatically (NYT) Meta, Nvidia, Microsoft, a16z, and others sign a letter defending open-source AI; Jensen Huang, in his first X post, says open models strengthen cybersecurity (The Information) Signatories including Palantir avoid naming China or Moonshot in the open-weight letter, framing it instead around US AI leadership being judged by a strong open ecosystem, not one frontier model (Bloomberg) Longreads Meet All The Middle Aged Women Who Don't Exist: AI-generated wellness influencers, all gorgeous and all "57", are selling NMN supplements to women over 40 (Charlotte's Book) Big US pizza delivery chains are struggling as DoorDash and Uber Eats give independent pizzerias greater market access, erasing the tech moat chains once had (FT) Subscribe to the ad-free feed. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Brewers had a hot homestand out of the All-Star break. During the break, they selected another Ebel and another Sabathia in the draft. Joey Ortiz has been incredible since moving back to 3B! Unfortunately, we got some bad news for fan favorite Brandon Woodruff.Use code "TheScoop15" at SpiderzBattingGloves.com for 15% off of batting gloves, fielding gloves, protective gear, bat grips, and apparel!

GTA 6 pulled an estimated $260M in its first week of pre-orders — and the real story is that its launch has quietly become a proxy for every gaming company's valuation. If it opens well, the industry holds. If it doesn't, the bottom could fall out — and mobile goes with it.Felix Braberg flies solo for the news segment, with three stories that matter. GTA 6 pre-orders hit roughly $260M globally in the last week of June (Newzoo forecasts $3.3-5.2B by launch week in November, ~51M units), and Felix explains why the whole industry is watching it as a valuation bellwether. Tencent is rumored to be in talks to buy Playtika's Superplay for $1-1.5B — a fascinating story of an earnout gone right for the founders and wrong for the parent: Playtika bought Superplay for $690M in late 2024 with a performance earnout, Superplay is smashing every target (Disney Solitaire alone is ~$5M/week, ~$300M/year), and the ballooning earnout liability (now ~$829M) plus a $2.3B debt wall in 2028-2029 is forcing Playtika to consider selling its crown jewel. And PubMatic signed an OpenWrap deal with Zynga, bringing transparent, fixed-margin ad buying to Zynga's inventory — the same play as Amazon TAM and Bid Machine.The through-line: the money is moving, and the balance sheets are calling the shots.━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━⏱️ TIMESTAMPS00:00 GTA 6 pre-orders hit $260M in week one02:30 Why GTA 6 is now a proxy for all gaming valuations04:00 Tencent in talks to buy Superplay for up to $1.5B06:30 The earnout trap — how Superplay's success became a burden09:00 Playtika's $2.3B debt wall and the forced-sale logic10:30 PubMatic x Zynga and the OpenWrap transparency play12:30 Top charts — Block Out and Meow Doku dominate downloads---------------------------------------This is no BS gaming podcast 2.5 gamers session. Sharing actionable insights, dropping knowledge from our day-to-day User Acquisition, Game Design, and Ad monetization jobs. We are definitely not discussing the latest industry news, but having so much fun! Let's not forget this is a 4 a.m. conference discussion vibe, so let's not take it too seriously.Panelists: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jakub Remia⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠r,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Felix Braberg, Matej Lancaric⁠Join our slack channel here: https://join.slack.com/t/two-and-half-gamers/shared_invite/zt-3bckldvr8-8PXvzciMWdheOzED9hq0SA---------------------------------------Matej LancaricUser Acquisition & Creatives Consultant⁠https://lancaric.meFelix BrabergAd monetization consultant⁠https://www.felixbraberg.comJakub RemiarGame design consultant⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakubremiar---------------------------------------Please share the podcast with your industry friends, dogs & cats. Especially cats! They love it!Hit the Subscribe button on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple!Please share feedback and comments - matej@lancaric.me---------------------------------------If you are interested in getting UA tips every week on Monday, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠lancaric.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ & sign up for the Brutally Honest newsletter by Matej LancaricDo you have UA questions nobody can answer? Ask ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matej AI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - the First UA AI in the gaming industry! https://lancaric.me/matej-ai

The View ladies hit with pay cuts, Nolan Wells' autopsy, Oprah reconsiders her Harry & Meghan interview, Ellen (at the time) Page & the worst Late Night interview ever, D4vd murder case, breast reconstruction videos, Maz is a Fanilow, and Jim's Picks: Top 10 Smoke songs. Tommy Lee was on Dax Shepard's podcast. It was kind of cool. Kind of. But it was also kind of a bummer. We miss the old Dax. Nolan Wells' independent autopsy came out. It's inconclusive.  The D4vd murder case is not looking so good for D4vd. The View is facing big time budget cuts. including the wardrobe department. Brand new Bonerline Angel Reese highlights round 35. Kamala Harris IS STILL #1 in the polls to be the next Democratic candidate. Lance Schroyer is in big trouble. An illegal immigrant is suing Donald Trump for $75M. Good luck. Vietnam vet that slapped a young guy at a Chicago Cubs game feels bad now. The guy that got sucked out of an airplane broke his silence...And can't wear shirts now. William Shatner had stage 4 cancer in his 90s...And beat it. Drew stumbled into breast reconstruction pictures and videos after double mastectomies. It's crazy. Maz interrupts our fun to talk about his 5 jobs. The Kansas City Chiefs are building a new stadium that isn't close to being ready and will only cost about $3B. What are the Tigers going to do at the trade deadline? Maz loves Rich Little. That somehow leads us down a Barry Manilow rabbit hole. Then Drew grills Tom about his Rock & Brews schedule. Bye, Tommy. Harry & Meghan got some interesting stuff going on. Oprah is reliving her interview with them. MasterChef Australia is about to air. Jim's Picks: Top 10 Songs About Smoke An Ellen Page interview on Stephen Colbert from 2019 hasn't aged well. Merch, yo. Check it. If you'd like to help support the show… consider subscribing to our YouTube Channel, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (Drew Lane, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels, Jim Bentley, BranDon, and Roberto).

Today Episode: July bee yard update William's tips on honey harvest (see Williams letter here) Tip on making bee boxes last longer "painting with glue" — this whole presentation is well worth watching! ( YouTube Link) Invitation to see Julia Mahood present on drones (see below for info) Reminder to take care in the heat with electrolytes Thoughts on "Chasing Sourwood" and the impacts on stationary beekeepers (AR apiary law. See section 3B for the provision I mention.) See LINKS and a copy of Williams letter here! (free and available to everyone) Thank you to the patrons who keep this podcast available to all (and they also get extra goodies as a thank you for the support). Not a patron yet? Please join us at https://www.patreon.com/fiveapple July 28, 2026 July Monthly With Guest Speaker Julia Mahood / ToeCane Beekeepers Julia Mahood is a Georgia Master Crafts Beekeeper who has been keeping bees since 2004. She is currently president of the Georgia Beekeepers Association.  She will discuss honey bee drone behavior, drone congregation areas, and why drones matter. Meetings begin at 6:00 p.m. with official business starting at 6:30. Meetings are held at Trinity Episcopal Church, 15 Hemlock Ave., Spruce Pine NC 28777. Beekeeping at Five Apple — talk, tips, and how-to on sustainable beekeeping from the Blue Ridge mountains of Southern Appalachia. Host Leigh Wilkerson brings sixteen years of hands-on experience from her self-sustaining apiary since 2010. The podcast explores colony health, natural bee biology, and organic to chemical-free approaches. Episodes go deep on seasonal management, swarm control, queen rearing, hive biology, nutrition, and sustainable genetics. Designed for beekeepers ready to go beyond the basics, with episodes for newer beekeepers too. Leigh is a popular Zoom presenter for bee clubs and associations. Topics include specialty splits so you never buy a package again; requeening approaches; simple frame-based queen rearing; building VSH genetics in your yard; and topics by request.      

In recent months, the open vs closed, and US vs China discussions on model ownership and sovereign/local AI have heated up to a fever pitch. So it is very very good news that Poolside AI are finally emerging with new models, like Laguna S 2.1, that are beating Thinking Machines' recent release nearly 10 times their size.Poolside's recent tech report got a lot of praise due to their level of detail, and Vibhu first covered Laguna's recent technical report on our paper club:From spending $12 million building language models for code before the world cared to creating a Model Factory that can take a model from pre-training to release in eight weeks, Eiso Kant has spent more than a decade betting that code is the path to AGI. In this episode, the Poolside co-founder joins swyx and Vibhu to explain why ChatGPT felt like vindication, why Poolside embraced open weights and open research, and why he would rather live in a world with 100 foundation model companies than five even if Poolside were one of the five.We go deep on Poolside's Model Factory: the engineering systems behind 10,000–20,000 experiments per month, streaming data directly into training, reproducible experimentation, low-precision compute, and agents that increasingly write code, launch jobs, evaluate results, and modify the pipelines used to train future models. Eiso also unpacks their recent launch Laguna S, why persistence, verification, and backtracking may matter more than raw intelligence, how much capability remains inside smaller models, why reinforcement learning will move earlier into pre-training, and why next-token prediction is still extracting too little from the web.We also discuss model-harness co-design, Poolside's path from coding agents to AGI, why Eiso thinks MCP and traditional tool calls are “stupid,” the real economics behind frontier-model training, Poolside's $500 million raise, open-source AI, regulation, NVIDIA and TSMC's influence, engineering productivity in the agent era, high-agency teams, and hiring at Poolside.We discuss:* How Andrej Karpathy's RNN work inspired Eiso to start building language models for code in 2015* Why Eiso spent four years and $12 million pursuing an idea before the market cared* Why ChatGPT felt like vindication and brought Poolside back to open source* Why Eiso would prefer 100 foundation model companies over an oligopoly of five* The difference between releasing open weights and publishing genuinely open research* Why Poolside deliberately built a global research organization outside the Bay Area talent war* Why model building is ultimately 90% engineering* The Model Factory: Poolside's end-to-end system for rapidly training and improving models* How fewer than 70 researchers run roughly 10,000–20,000 experiments each month* How Poolside moved from six-month model cycles to five- and eight-week launches* Why streaming data directly into training unlocked faster experimentation* How immutable data, versioned code, and reproducibility enable rigorous model research* Why Eiso wants capable researchers to leave their labs and become Poolside's competitors* Why 95% of model building can be reduced to better data or compute efficiency* Laguna S and why persistence, verification, and backtracking can outperform raw intelligence* Why smaller models may handle far more knowledge work than previously expected* Why reinforcement learning will move earlier into pre-training* Why next-token prediction is still failing to extract enough knowledge from the web* Why distillation and environments have become the AI industry's favorite “drugs”* Why mid-training is really an early form of curriculum design* Low-precision training, networking bottlenecks, and the next gains in compute efficiency* Laguna S: 118 billion total parameters, 8 billion active, and eight weeks from training to launch* Why model builders can often evaluate a new checkpoint within its first 30 minutes* Model versus harness: where agent capabilities actually come from* Why Poolside sees coding and long-horizon software tasks as a path to AGI* Why Eiso thinks MCP and traditional tool calls are “stupid”* Why future agents will write scripts instead of choosing from dozens of predefined tools* The case for minimal harnesses, containers, and model freedom* Why Poolside is prioritizing vision but does not expect to work on audio soon* Why language may be the most compute-efficient modality for encoding knowledge and reasoning* The real cost of model development and why the final training run is anticlimactic* The story behind the Poolside name and why it represents refusing to lower ambitions* How Poolside raised $500 million while investors still questioned whether AGI was real* Why intelligence could become the world's most demanded and commoditized resource* When open models may become too capable to release without restrictions* Why unilateral AI safety does not work in a globally competitive environment* How regulation could accidentally lock in an oligopoly of two or three AI companies* NVIDIA, TSMC, and the hardware systems underpinning foundation-model progress* Why reinforcement-learning wall-clock time is one of Poolside's biggest bottlenecks* Why Poolside trains models from scratch instead of simply distilling larger models* How AI changes the way companies should measure engineering productivity* Why agency may become the most important quality for employees in the AI era* How leaders align high-agency people through shared goals and clear constraints* Hiring across research, post-training, pre-training, architecture, evals, and engineering at PoolsideEiso KantLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eisokantX: https://x.com/eisokantPoolside: https://poolside.aiTimestamps00:00:00 Introduction00:00:54 Karpathy, RNNs, and Building Code Models Before Transformers00:02:26 The $12M Failure and ChatGPT Vindication00:03:39 Open Source and the Case for 100 Foundation Model Companies00:09:22 Open Weights, Open Research, and Poolside's Global Team00:16:04 The Model Factory: Why Model Building Is 90% Engineering00:20:19 Agents, Automated Experiments, and Early Signs of RSI00:24:04 Streaming Data, Reproducibility, and Scientific Rigor00:30:35 Creating More Foundation Model Companies00:36:07 Laguna S: Persistence vs. Raw Intelligence00:43:01 Reinventing Pre-Training, RL, and Curriculum Design00:52:33 Low-Precision Training and Squeezing More From Smaller Models00:58:37 Model Harnesses, Coding Agents, and the Path to AGI01:09:26 Why MCP and Traditional Tool Calls Are “Stupid”01:13:04 Vision, Multimodality, and Why Language Still Matters01:18:15 Scaling Models and the Real Economics of Training01:20:40 Why Poolside Is Called Poolside and Raising $500M01:27:37 Open Models, AI Safety, and the Risk of an Oligopoly01:33:53 NVIDIA, TSMC, and the Reinforcement-Learning Bottleneck01:41:52 Smaller Models, Distillation, Engineering Productivity, and HiringTranscriptIntroduction: Eiso Kant, Poolside, and Open ModelsSwyx [00:00:00]: All right, we're here in the studio with Eiso Kant from Poolside, together with Vibhu. Welcome.Eiso Kant [00:00:08]: Thanks. Thanks for having me, guys. Good to be here.Swyx [00:00:10]: Yeah, fresh on the plane. You texted me, you were like, “Hey, I'm on my way to SF.” I was like, “You're on a plane right now, right?” Like, hey.Eiso Kant [00:00:16]: I know. After I texted you, I realized that probably coming in with major jet lag was gonna offer some fun experiences today, but let's do it.Swyx [00:00:23]: I mean, I think the thing I would tell guests is that they don't have to prepare that much because if you're truly working on this every single day, then even, like, what you hazily remember is going to be new for a lot of the audience that don't live in your world every day, right? so 10 years ago, you did a talk at Google Slush, talking about the democratization of AI. and, now here you are, like, open sourcing an incredible new model that we're gonna talk about. But I guess, like, what got you into democratization of AI? Like, it's not obvious from your LinkedIn or something.From Karpathy's RNN Post to SourcedEiso Kant [00:00:57]: No, it's not at all. I don't think it's obvious how I got in this space. I owe getting into this space to Andrej Karpathy.Eiso Kant [00:01:05]: In 2015, he wrote an article called “The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Recurrent Neural Nets.”Swyx [00:01:10]: Neural Nets, yep.Eiso Kant [00:01:11]: And that article, I read it, and I pivoted my startup at the time overnight to working on RNNs, and later LSTMs and Transformer models to be able to write code. If you go to this article and you scroll down, you can start seeing, like, this was the precursor to what ended up becoming language models. So, at least when he was character-level language models that were starting to predict letters, he has an example out here. There's a little Paul Graham generator, and you can read it, and the text makes sense, but it doesn't. and there's a little-- There's an example of code a little bit further down. Yeah, so Shakespeare.Swyx [00:01:47]: Shakespeare.Swyx [00:01:49]: CoolEiso Kant [00:01:49]: And for some reason, I read this, and I went down the rabbit hole of learning everything I could about RNNs and LSTMs, right? This is Transformer paper. And I had built a completely unreasonable belief, that neural nets should be able to generalize to anything and everything, and that language should be able to generalize, to a lot of things that are intelligent and the ability to write code. And so I started building Sourced, which was a fully open source company trying to build, what we used to call machine learning on code, language models on code. And we spent about four or five years on this, till the end of 2019. And that sounds really cool today, but back then, no one cared.Eiso Kant [00:02:29]: Right? Like, no one cared. We were in the dark. Like, we did things along the way. We tried applying convolutional neural nets to, like, the structure of code. We were. when attention came out, we were applying it to LSTMs, and then the Transformer paper came out. And it - it wasn't obvious, and what we missed throughout that entire journey, that we were on the right track, but we should have just kept scaling up. And today, to all of us, the scaling laws and scaling up seems like the most obvious thing. But having spent four or five years of my life on working on language models on code, it wasn't obvious. So I have a lot of respect to folks at Google and OpenAI and others who took that confidence and kept going. we failed ultimately at the time, and it was, like, biggest failure of my career, right? You blew $12 million of investors' money, which was a lot back then.Swyx [00:03:18]: Yep.Eiso Kant [00:03:19]: You spent, still a lot, but, And you spent years with, like, a group of 40 people just obsessing over this problem. And life took a different turn, And it was, and family became a focus, and I kept my heads down and really, didn't really look at language models for the following two years. big mistake considering Following years are gonna be really interesting. And then ChatGPT came out And it was like a vindication. It's like people started texting me. I found, like, my old, work decks and these old talks. And throughout that whole journey, we,ChatGPT, Vindication, and Returning to Open SourceEiso Kant [00:03:56]: We really had a strong point of view at the time that, like, as you're building more capable intelligence, it should be open and open source.Eiso Kant [00:04:04]: When we started Poolside, that wasn't the case at all, and I wanna be very open about it. When we started Poolside, we were like, there was a premise of two things. One is this technology is not gonna stop compounding in capabilities. I think to most people obvious today, but three-plus years ago when we started, most people were still arguing if these were stochastic parrots or not.Eiso Kant [00:04:23]: And the second was that reinforcement learning was gonna be the biggest driver for LLM capabilities. Today, very obvious. Three years ago, was not an opinion held or direction held at either OpenAI or Google or Anthropic or others. And so people looked down on us a little bit. They were like, “ is this really gonna work?” And so we just started working the problem, and we never really thought about open source again. We just kept our heads down and we built our, like, knowledge, understanding from scratch, right? We didn't roll out of an existing lab. So we picked up the papers and started writing code and figuring things out.Eiso Kant [00:04:59]: And it wasn't until the beginning of this year that me and my founder, Jason, picked up the open source conversation again.Eiso Kant [00:05:07]: And if you go back to some of the early things on our website, it was very straightforward. It was we wanna get to AGI, we wanna support a world of abundance, and we wanna be the first company that gets there.Eiso Kant [00:05:20]: But we started talking at the beginning of this year because it became obvious that the world was going in a direction that was starting to like, pick at us a little bit. Like, it didn't, this didn't happen overnight. It was, like, a little bit we were seeing this and we're like, “Okay, The world's going down a path.” And Throughout this journey, there was something that I used as a, as an analogy or thing. So I said well, if I go back to back in those days, 2015 or 2016, we're working on this, and I picked up a fi book off the shelf, and I was reading the book about 2035. AGI is achieved, and the story would be over the following, decades. And it would have that first chapter where everyone's trying to figure things out. You'd get the chapter of ChatGPT coming out And then you would get to the chapter where the world was at a fork in the road, and the one that it picked was one where three or four or a handful of companies were going to create all of intelligence moving forward.Eiso Kant [00:06:21]: And when I thought about that story, it felt like a dystopian fi book, not a utopian fi book. And the reality is, I'm a utopian fi guy. Like, and so We took a step back and said, “Hey, can we play a role here?” Now it was easy for us to do so because we were not at the frontier.Eiso Kant [00:06:41]: If we were at the frontier, I don't think we could have changed our mind. and I don't mean this like it's when the moment there's too much capital involved, too much expectations, you've built up things, right? We're a small team, just improving and improving. And so we knew that we could make that decision now, but it would be a lot harder to make as we got closer and closer to the frontier and caught up to others. And did a lot of soul-searching and a lot of conversations, and said, “No, this makes sense,” Even if there's big unanswered questions, like how the hell do you build a business model with foundation models about open source? Big open-ended question that we do not fully have the answer to yet, right? At what point do you no longer wanna release open source models because misuse of models has, real potential risks associated with it? how is the government gonna respond to open source? but I think it all just came down to one thing, and I'll stop the monologue, is the fact that I rather live in a world that has 100 foundation model companies than a world that has five, even if I was one of the five. And the smallest and most meaningful contribution we can make for 100 to exist is to open up our research and open up, like, our weights right now and figure out along the way how we can, like, do more.Neo-Labs, Model Choice, and the Token EconomySwyx [00:08:01]: Yeah. I think if anything, over the past three years, that has become a bit more true. you are one of a cohort of Neo labsEiso Kant [00:08:10]: YeahSwyx [00:08:10]: That people are now calling that. And, we're, we're doing this on the day that Thinky launched their, new model and you are outperforming them on their, on some benchmarks that they released, right? Like, they just don't have it yet. so it goes to show that I think, like, this is one of those things where, like, there is room for multiple players, and you are seeing a little bit more of the future. Maybe more like 20, not 100, but, like, you are one of the 20.Eiso Kant [00:08:36]: I really hope so, right? I think we I'm, I'm excited about their release, and I'm excited about everyone releasing because, like, ultimately, like, choice competition is both gonna drive progress in the right direction. But the fact that like, we create models and while we all, drink out of the same well of data effectively, we do introduce very different behaviors and biases in our models. Some are intended biases, some are completely unintended biases.Swyx [00:09:03]: Yeah.Eiso Kant [00:09:03]: And if we shape up in an ecosystem in the world where open models are gonna be a part of the token economy, like, I don't think there's any question about it anymore Then we want to be able to live in a world where companies, countries, people can choose and say, “Hey, I am most aligned and I trust most this provider for these things.”Swyx [00:09:25]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:09:26]: I think more than just one of the 20 Neo labs, up until recently, most of open source innovation was coming from the Chinese labs, right? So there's the DeepSeek of the West. Is it today? Okay, maybe it's thinking machines reflection, but there aren't many, right? So, one of the things you guys started in France, Europe, but very much now you're taking that American standpoint and more than just that, the point is the Chinese models that we see, they're not super open research. the work you put out is, I think, some of the best. So every few months you get not only frontier models, but also here's a breakdown blog, paper, technical report of here's everything for state of the art to build, frontier intelligence and you're filling that gap too, right? So not just only open weight, not just Western, but also pretty open research.Open Weights vs. Open ResearchEiso Kant [00:10:20]: No, I appreciate it. Look, I think it's, I think it's the most meaningful contribution, right? Weights are a binary. Let's call them what they are. Yes, we can modify them, we can change them, but, like, giving someone the weights does not allow them ultimately to recreate what you're doing, right? And so now there's challenges around releasing data sets, challenges around like releasing certain things, but being able to share your research, like, right, how do we do it? What are the lessons we learned that we spent, tens of thousands of experiments of compute on? I think very much so. One correction though, Vibhu, and I say this because it's been haunting us for quite a few years. We from day zero were an American company.Swyx [00:10:55]: Yeah. They movedPoolside's Global Team and American Company StorySwyx [00:10:56]: To France.Eiso Kant [00:10:56]: So the story once and for all is very. We start as an American company. We have always been an American company, and early on we made a very conscious decision. We said, “We're not gonna hire any researchers in the Bay Area. We're gonna look for talent everywhere else in the world.” and that is everything from Middle Americas, Seattle to, Serbia, and to Taiwan and Singapore and other places. And it was because we took a view that this was gonna become a talent war for this, and I think it has over the years now. Three years ago, that wasn't fully obvious yet. I think today it very much is. And we also realized that, like, some of the world's most capable people with, like, the most interesting, innovative ideas were not just gonna be here. And so it led us to create like a fully remote company. and we ended up opening an office in Paris and London and different places and we have a lot of the team in the US and a lot of team outside. But we always took this view of like, we're an American company, but if we want the best of the best to work with us, we need to take a global view. Now we do also have people here in Silicon Valley, like the company's grown and others, but I think one of the things that, it slowed us down at the beginning, but it has sped us up now, and it's why you're seeing like the progress, I think, on our models and the cadence at which we release, is because we didn't roll out of an existing lab. Right? we didn't, we didn't have a lot of the information that's freely flowing around here at the time. We just took this point of view as like, “Okay, well, let's just work the problem. Let's just go and, like, read the few papers that are out there, and let's just figure this stuff out.” And we made some hilarious mistakes in model training because of that over the yearsEiso Kant [00:12:35]: Like especially in the first 12 months. there's a few that I think still haunt me and scare me. We can talk about them later. but it created a, like, a resiliency and persistency in the team, right? with extremely few people have left us over the years, that, like, told us, “Okay, we can do this.” When we first wrote our first training code base completely from scratch, it wasn't a fork of any open source. It was just like, “Okay, let's build it from scratch.” I remember we had this one moment where we spent three weeks working out an optimizer bug. Like, it was like training just couldn't get stable. We, like, obsessed over it, and we thought, like, maybe we were wrong. Maybe we should have just forked this repo, or we should have. But then when we solved it, I still remember at the time we were like five people in the company. when we solved it, we were like, “Oh, we can do things,” like if we're just willing to work hard. and I think that culture with a very strong engineering bias has helped us, like, get to where we were. And so there's this notion of open source and talent and these things. I think we, We just took different decisions from a different starting point. and I think we are lucky. I do want to definitely call it lucky. And there was a lot of hard work at the team that now, like, that's starting to show up in results.Swyx [00:13:52]: Just ‘cause we probably won't revisit this again, but, and this is a fun recruiting challenge if someone knows the answer. What was the bug? And then we won't tell the solution, but we'An Optimizer Bug and the Value of Building From ScratchEiso Kant [00:14:01]: So the - This - You're gonna test my memory here,Swyx [00:14:04]: Oh, okayEiso Kant [00:14:04]: So but I thinkSwyx [00:14:05]: DirectlyEiso Kant [00:14:05]: I think I can recall. So if you, so if you look at, So if you take like Adam as an optimizer, you have epsilonSwyx [00:14:12]: YeahEiso Kant [00:14:13]: Which is, right, like in the denominatorSwyx [00:14:14]: Momentum and weights. YeahEiso Kant [00:14:15]: Is exactly, in the denominator. And at the time, if I recall, you looked at like the early Llama papers and things like that. People were juicing epsilon, like, quite a bit. Like, they were, like, adding, I don't know if it was E minus four or whatever, like a high value for epsilon.Eiso Kant [00:14:31]: And if you think about this during training, it's like a bit weird and counterintuitive that we're adding noise to our optimizer by just adding effectively, like, a random number in the denominator, right? Like behind the decimal point. And I don't recall the exact bug, but it had - What I remember is once we solved it, we no longer had to juice epsilon as much as, like, was happening in the Llama paper and other places. and it was like one of those fundamental moments where we had trusted this paper that was out there, and we're like, “Oh, no, it has to be this way. It has to have this high value of epsilon.” But it made no sense to us intuitively. Like, why do you have to have this so high? Like, if you're just trying to avoid division by zero, why can't the value be extremely small? and that was like one of those moments where you realize like, okay, finding things out from scratch yourself builds a better intuition. Because the one thing you learn very quickly with model building is that your intuitions that you start with are gonna get beaten up so hard.Eiso Kant [00:15:33]: Right? Like - It's such an experimental science, that the things that seem obvious, you very quickly get to learn, like, you were wrong, and hopefully you figure out why, and sometimes you don't even.Swyx [00:15:45]: Yeah. yeah, so, one of the reasons that you, when you released your new models, Vibhu got really excited. I mean, everyone got really excited. But Vibhu led our paper club on it, and you guys sawEiso Kant [00:15:58]: YeahSwyx [00:15:58]: Obviously. maybe talk through some lessons learned in that, whatever you can disclose. we can focus on the model factory stuff, whatever you think is a good starting point.Model Building as EngineeringEiso Kant [00:16:08]: So I would say that our view from very early on in the company was that model building is ultimately 90% engineering.Eiso Kant [00:16:18]: And I think we all know it in the industry because if you look at where's every researcher spending their time, they're spending their time writing code, right? Looking at data and writing code. And so we said, okay, The state at the moment, like three years ago, was bash scripts and Slurm and spaghetti code bases for training and, like, data pipelines that were patched together. And we looked at this and said, “Well, ultimately, model building is a process.” You're going from raw data, right? Like training raw material, the web, et cetera. you're doing a whole bunch of filtering, cleaning up, transformations, analyzing. These days, that's, far more complex than it was three years ago. then you're training a model, which is effectively a large distributed systems problem, right? Across hardware that has still-- It's become a lot more reliable. It was extremely flaky back then. and now with every new generation, we get our new sets of challenges. And then you go into the next stages, right? There was no training back then, but, like, you got, your post-training and then your reinforcement learning. And so we looked at this and we said, “Well, this looks like an industrialized process. This looks like an end process, that every single part of it has its machinery,” right? If it's your big data pipelines, if it's your crawling ingestion of the web, if it's your, large-scale distributed training, and then you've got your reliability. And we said, “Well, why don't we take some of the world's smartest distributed systems engineers that we knew and make them part of the process of research from day zero?” Not retrofitting it later on, but, like, really from the beginning. And that became our model factory. And so our model factory started with a handful of components. Today, it's thousands of components, and I try to equate it to, if you think about, like, someone who was at the very early days of Foxconn, if they had been there for the following, decade, they would be able to rebuild Foxconn because they saw every decision that led to building that system and all the complexity. If you and I walk into Foxconn today, no chance.The Model Factory and Experiment VelocityEiso Kant [00:18:18]: Right? Because we don't have the lineage and history of decisions that led to that. And so we built early on from the beginning- with a team that really understood that, well, the metric that we are optimizing for is the speed of an idea from a researcher to an experimental result that we can trust to then being part of the next model training.Eiso Kant [00:18:42]: And in the. And because it's such an experimental science, ultimately, in the beginning when it wasn't that complex, you could patch your way around it, right? But now, at any foundation model company, you are running. I mean, we're a small team, right? We're less than 70 researchers, another 35 engineers. and we are running, I haven't checked the latest count, but far more than 10,000, maybe 10 to 20,000 experiments a month that we cut. And so if you look at that scale of every model run that is, like it's ultimately it's, it's you need to be able to trust it as an infra problem. And so what we have now done over the years is gotten really good at that, and just by working it and improving it and obsessing over those end decisions. So now what that means is that you looked up Laguna XS 2 that we launched. It was five weeks from the beginning of training to launch. The model that we're gonna talk about today was eight weeks from start of training, to launch. We started the next model literally yesterday because we now finished the post-training required for the model we're launching, next week or by the time this comes out today. and we move that compute to the much larger Laguna M model that we're now training. And so the model should be an artifact of someone's process. It shouldn't be really a thing in itself. Like, and we treat this like the way you would look at like a SpaceX factory where, yes, the first rocket, really hard to build, but the much harder challenge was building the factory. And now they're rolling off, and no one is really thinking about the next launch anymore. So it's just another launch, it's another launch, another rocket comes off. And that's what we're trying to do with model building.Eiso Kant [00:20:22]: And what has been, which was not planned from day zero, it was in the back of our mind like this will happen one day, is that when you build a really good end model factory with really good APIs and really good engineering systems, Well, what is it perfect for? It's perfect for agents.Agents Inside the Model FactoryEiso Kant [00:20:40]: Because agents are now starting to take over more and more work in our model factory.Vibhu [00:20:43]: Yeah.Eiso Kant [00:20:44]: So I look at the screens when I walk, like when we're, we come together, in our monthly, we do monthly onsites, and I walk behind people's screens and I stop by and I talk to our researchers. And the default is all of these different agents running on their screen that are writing the code. They're launching the jobs. They're evaluating the results that are coming back from the model runs. They are, making the changes. And we're still in the driver's seat. We're still coming up with the ideas. We're still helping with the debugging. But more and more, and this is right now very profound on the data side of our pipelines in both pre and post and the synthetic data pipelines, it's starting to become more on the architecture side as well. You're starting to see these twinklings of what RSI is gonna look like.Eiso Kant [00:21:27]: And that's. So when we talk about, like to your question about our models, every talk about the model factory, And my coolest example of these things is always that when we kick off a new run, doesn't matter if it's a training like big run or if it's now a post, like one of 10 post-training versions we do for like release or many experiments, is that at any given moment, the changes that somebody made that they had experimental results from the day before make it into that run.Eiso Kant [00:21:57]: So there's not like a cutoff 90 days before. Like no, it's like literally from that moment because we can now trust the machine enough. And then you also have to invest in the reliability. So one of my favorite metrics about like Laguna S is that there was no call events, Right? Like completely zero. And we haven't had a meaningful call event, like something to wake up for, as far as I recall this entire year. now there is one asterisk to that. In usually the first six hours of launching a new model run, something breaks because you set a config wrong, you made a small mistake, et cetera. So that's usually there's a little bit of intervention, but that's always within like call periods, right? Not on call. And I think that's starting to now compound. So the model we're releasing now, I love it. It's amazing, but we're already onto the next one. and I think that's the way it should be.Laguna, Five-Week Builds, and Zero On-Call EventsVibhu [00:22:50]: Hey, I also just wanna point out, so for context, this was like a month ago. we found it in the tech report, so we just came in with, “Okay, new model's dropped. Haven't heard about it.” We wereEiso Kant [00:23:02]: Yeah, we're very used to doing this every few months.Vibhu [00:23:03]: We're, we're very much like, “ okay, look, it's like, on par with Kimi, DeepSeek, whatnot, the small ones, Gemma level. Oh, it's a very cool paper on what goes into building.” And then we hit this page, right? Like literally page two of tech report is, “This process allowed us to build the small model from scratch to delivery within five weeks applying the lessons”. And then I'm like, oh, this paper is not about here's a tech report of benchmarks and here's how many tokens it was trained on. Like for people that wanna dive more from what we're not gonna discuss on the podcast, it's all laid out here, right? FromEiso Kant [00:23:38]: YeahVibhu [00:23:39]: Custom software that agents can use to interface with training code, training data.Eiso Kant [00:23:45]: Yeah. Well, link the paper correctly, so yeah.Vibhu [00:23:47]: Yeah. All that stuff. read the paper here, but,Technical Report Principles and Streaming Training DataEiso Kant [00:23:50]: But I would like to. I love principles, and I think that is a good starting off point for maybe telling some stories. Maybe we can go one by one past the principles. I'll just call out that Dagster just got bought by a Prefect.Vibhu [00:24:01]: Yeah.Eiso Kant [00:24:01]: Isn't it fun? But yes, I'm very familiar with Dagster. just anything where like they trigger some story.Vibhu [00:24:07]: So, well, I would say, well, experiments code's obvious, but I think one of my favorite things is, I don't know where it is in here, but early on, and I still think this is the case a lot of foundation model companies, people prepare their training data sets, they get packaged up, then they get copied over to a training cluster distributed across all of the nodes, and then training starts.Vibhu [00:24:30]: And we looked at this like three years ago and we were like That makes no senseEiso Kant [00:24:36]: You lose so much time because the moment you have to rematerialize the data set, you have to make a change, you have to fix something, et cetera, you've got all this time of like repackaging it, right? Toca- tokenizing it, repacking it, moving it over to a cluster, then distributing it across the nodes. The bigger your clusters are, you start using fancy like torrent-like algorithms to like distribute your data. So why aren't we streaming data into training? Right? Something that's very common and like just basicVibhu [00:25:00]: Like just in timeEiso Kant [00:25:01]: Just in time, like good computer science like principle. And that was one of the first things that I think unlocked - the model factory. Because the moment you start thinking about, well, a training job, it doesn't matter if it's a big hero run or a small like, post-training experiment, consumes a certain number of tokens per second, right? And it's not a lot, right? From a like a data, moving data perspective. So we said, well, we have our training cluster, and then we've got like our AWS kinda setup where we can build these amazing big data pipelines. We can set things up. We use Spark underneath the hood, like all these things.Vibhu [00:25:36]: But when you say AWS, it's not actual AWS, it's your internal AWS.Eiso Kant [00:25:39]: It's our internal-- No, it's our internal like just running like our infrastructureVibhu [00:25:42]: Site web servicesEiso Kant [00:25:43]: Exactly. Our stuff running on like an AWS account or on like any hardware, right?Vibhu [00:25:47]: Yeah.Eiso Kant [00:25:48]: And so once we made that shift into I can stream data into training, all of a sudden you realize a lot of things unlock. Because now you don't have to wait for the whole data set to materialize.Immutable Data, Experiments as Code, and Scientific RigorEiso Kant [00:26:00]: You now all of a sudden when you're running data experiments about mixing data, it's a config. Because you've got these data sources that are coming in, and you just - we have this service called Blender that's in the report, where we then say, “Okay, for this run, I want 20% of this source, 10% of this source. I want this much, so many epochs of repetition. I want this to be, shuffled in a certain way,” and your training job can start while the rest of the data is even still materializing. also what it does is because all of this underneath-- So for us, we treated the data layer underneath as like an immutable data layer, and that was really important. Like experiments as code, immutable data layer means that you can always go back and understand literally down to the single token at which cursor it went in on which version of the code.Vibhu [00:26:47]: Yeah.Eiso Kant [00:26:48]: And it took us a I have to admit, like the first year of Poolside, we understood that engineering had to get great, But we didn't understand yet, that this is ultimately in support of like a good rigorous scientific progress. We were quite a - We were a very small number of people, so a lot of it was YOLO ideas and YOLO runs.Vibhu [00:27:08]: Yeah.Eiso Kant [00:27:09]: And we built great infra for the YOLO runs. But once we realized that we treated data as immutable and code as always versioned, and you could always track and trace every experiment end to end perfectly, you could repeat everything perfectly, right? You have perfect reproducibility. I can still reproduce runs from two years ago if I wanted to, right? It enables the scientific progress, like the scientific process, and I think that took us probably about a year and a half into the company to figure out. We also had some great hires, like our head of applied research, Nikolai, who joined us from Yandex, who'd been working on language models since like the early 2020s, I think brought that into the company of like, “Hey, we wanna have even more rigor.” And then once we kinda had the combination of like increasingly more capable platform that allowed people to do more, but had this immutability, we were able to start “Okay, every experiment is truly an ablation. We truly need to understand it.” And I think we became much more scientifically rigorous in the last couple of years, and the infra underneath enabled it. and then there's just fun stuff like, andVibhu [00:28:16]: Yeah, a lot of it's fun, like even just the, one, you share all the ablations, two, picking the data sets, right? There's like a random small paragraph in here where it's just like, “Oh yeah, training data, we have some, we have an auto mixer.” it trains eight small models, scales them up, picks the training data set. We don't even need to look at it. I'm like, “Wow, a lot of engineering rigor there.” And there's just, there's just a lot in here.Publishing Research and Giving BackEiso Kant [00:28:40]: Yeah, and it'- and look, and we wanna put out more. Like we, We treat writing papers as something that we haven't earned the right for yet for a long time. So you earn the right to spend time, publishing research once you're at the frontier, because until then, you're catching up, and every minute and hour in this industry matters. Like I obsess over it, not just the wall clock time from idea to result, but just general like time every day that we, waste is one that doesn't allow us to catch up. But in this case, we said, “Okay, we're gonna give ourselves.” I think we gave the team like three or four days while still doing their work, like give everything in there. And to your point earlier, if your stuff, it's easy to like put it out. And so there's so many more things that we wanna talk about over time, and we will definitely start doing. And as we earn more of the right, but also now have like added to our mission that we want more foundation model companies to exist, you'll see us like be way more proactive, and just trying to keep dropping some of those like things that we've learned along the way that can help others like speed up.Vibhu [00:29:40]: Which is the other cool side of this, right? It's, it's not like, back to your point, it's not just here's the benchmarks of our training. If you want to replicate, here's experiments of optimizers, data sets, post-training. you lay out a lot of it here alongside here's your system for how to do it? So it's, it's really like promotingEiso Kant [00:29:59]: No, thank youVibhu [00:29:59]: Other people can do the same.Eiso Kant [00:30:00]: And by the way, I also wanna make clear, right, we have been incredible-- Like we've taken a lot of advantage of the fact of all the open research that others have published, Right? And you mentioned, the Chinese labs, and we I think it's important that there's, from every country and every culture and background, including like Western companies like us, there's different models that come out that people can choose to trust. But I think we do have to give credit where credit's due, right? The incredible Chinese lab have done an amazing job at sharing their research, and we have definitely like been on the receiving end of taking advantage of that. So when you're on the receiving end of something coming to you, I think it's, you also have an obligation to give back.Swyx [00:30:39]: Do you have a favorite or underrated Chinese lab that you wanna shout out? Everyone shout outs DeepSeek.Chinese Labs, Zhipu, and PersistenceEiso Kant [00:30:44]: That's a good question.Swyx [00:30:45]: Moaan obviously for Therapsi. Yeah.Eiso Kant [00:30:48]: Yeah, look, I think, I think obviously everyone's been talking about Zhipu lately, with 5.2. I think what most people don't realize is when they started.Swyx [00:30:59]: Yeah.Eiso Kant [00:30:59]: Right? They started years before ChatGPT.Swyx [00:31:02]: They just rebranded. YeahEiso Kant [00:31:03]: And so, I've like, I remember how hard it was to work on these things Before the rest of the world got excited about it. And so I have an immense amount of respect for people, who were working on improving models when it wasn't the sexy thing to do, when believing in LLMs, was gonna get you ridiculed. I remember like back in 2016 when we were doing what we'd call, machine learning on code with some of these models. we would-- people would just laugh at us, like they'd be like, “This makes no sense. Like why are you wasting all these, like, millions of dollars on trying to figure this out?” And so I would say they're probably the one that, I think deserves a shout-out, not just because their latest model is very good, but because they fought to get here. And I think, I think every foundation model company it takes time to get here, right? It took us three years to get to the model that we're, that we're now gonna be releasing. and now the time in between the models is coming, is counted in weeks. It's no longer counted in months or years. But this stuff's hard. and if we can make it a little bit easier for the next person, like we should all do so. Because if we don't do so, we're, we've got a small window before models are really impacting recursive self-improvement to a level where catching up otherwise might become unfeasible. And we should try to, in that window, encourage as many labs or however we wanna call them, like to start. And so one of my currentEiso Kant [00:32:36]: Mission, but qualm is like I wanna encourage whoever is a researcher right now who thinks they can tackle this to go and leave and become my competitor.Eiso Kant [00:32:45]: Like start another foundation model company because I think we need it. I think otherwise we're not gonna be in the world where, I don't want to just be the fifth or the sixth company that wins. I wanna look at a world where there's lots of choice.Starting a Foundation Model CompanyVibhu [00:32:57]: What else do people not see in starting a foundation model? it's, there's a lot of compute, there's a lot of capital required, a lot of compute. You lay out model factory and how to do the training, but there's a lot there, right? That's,Eiso Kant [00:33:10]: Well, look, it's, I in turn-- this is an oversimplification, and I always asterisk it with that because it can land a little bit the wrong way in people's minds. But I think you can sum down, And I saw it, 95% of model building to just doing, you're just doing two things. You're improving data or you're improving compute efficiency. And I know that feels like an oversimplification for the incredible, like, Gifted and skilled work people do. But if you really look at it, like what are we doing? We are looking at data, we're generating new data, we're improving data. and the only way to do that is to look at the data, right? That's a big part of foundation model building. And on the other hand, we come up with these incredible breakthroughs in inference, in architecture, and new attention mechanisms. But what are they really doing? They're bringing compute efficiency. Now, we have definitely had some breakthroughs over the years that allow for more model capabilities. But at the limit, if you could train a large enough model, right, like, and you had infinite compute, we probably-- if you had infinite compute, you'd be at AGI probably already tomorrow.Eiso Kant [00:34:12]: Right? Like it's not. And so, and let me say that infinite compute with infinite ability of much faster networking because networking ends up being more of the bottleneck than compute. But, so I do think that's, those are the main things. And to just realize that this is engineering. I think it's become more obvious, but I think for quite a few years, people have held foundation model companies and researchers and others on this pedestal of like you're doing incredible magic or rocket science, or only like, Nobel laureate physicists can do this. And don't get me wrong, there are some really hard problems that need to be solved, but a lot of the work that all of us are doing on a day Is not sitting down trying to solve a math theorem. A lot of the work that we're doing is just really doing the basics right, writing good code, looking at data, improving it, running experiments, looking at plots, trying to see like, hey, trying to shape our intuitions. And a lot more people could be highly capable researchers. and I think that's, it feels far for people to do so. But I've seen in our own company, we've seen engineers become researchers because the model factory allowed them to be, have a much lower hurdle of running experiments and trying things. And one of the guys on our team who started as an engineer building our agents is a legit reinforcement learning researcher now, making real progress. and that happened in the span of like six months. that would've not been what I think most people assumed was possible, a couple of years ago.Swyx [00:35:46]: Yeah. I think one of the interesting moments is when you can self-host, like, if in a programming language, like if you can compile the language in the language, the equivalent is can you use your own tools, right? You have the pool CLI, you have your own models. presumably you're not only using your own models. There's no way. But like, what's that percentage over time?Laguna S, Persistence, and Behavioral GainsEiso Kant [00:36:10]: This is the first model that we're releasing that is starting to meaningfully contribute to our own work. It's not a it's not state-art model yet. Fable and other, they're, they're very capable models, but Laguna S Is really interesting. I'm gonna pull up the quote. Peng Ming, one of our heads of applied research, said something, last week as the model came out about 10 days ago, much better than we had hoped for or expected. And he said, I have the feeling that a lot of the gains in Laguna S come not from more intelligence, but more from different behavior, more verification, less taking things for granted, not declaring victory early, and being way more persistent. And to be honest, those are more predictive than raw intelligence for success in human also to some degree. And this was, he wrote me this on 5th of July on a Sunday, and it's been burned in my brain ever since because the Laguna S model, as you'll see it and why it does so well on benchmarks and why it does so well in using it on a day basis, is that it's just incredibly persistent. It reasons a lot. I do call that out. We have work to do on making it more efficient. We have to work to do on offering different reasoning modes. But this is the model that has been able to do things that I never thought it could do. A hundred eighteen billion 8B active model, which is not that large. It fits on a DGX Spark and still runs at, thirty, forty tokens a second on a Spark, is able to solve Erdős 397 independently. It's able to do complex programming tasks. It's able to. I asked it this morning to make me a Fi scanner without using any external libraries on my Mac, and it's, like, figuring out, like, the core WLAN API by really persistently trying to understand it without access to the internet. And more, I love vibe checking. I've probably spent eight to ten hours a day with this model for the last ten days.Eiso Kant [00:38:05]: I'm not exaggerating. I was on my eleven-hour flight yesterday. I spent ten hours reading trajectories and traces and, like, of the model.Eiso Kant [00:38:12]: And what I take away from it is exactly what Peng Ming said. We are gonna be able to squeeze so much more out of smaller models than I think we had imagined in the industry because, yes, there's intelligence and larger models are more intelligent. Like, no doubt about it. We should continue to scale up. but the behaviors of being really persistent, of being able to backtrack when you're wrong, of, like, understanding how to interact with your environment show us that we can get a lot more out of it. And this, for me, has created a bit of a Question in my mind the last couple of days. If you think about where we're using models today, right? We are using models, say, for knowledge work. Represents twenty-five percent of the global economy, twenty-five trillion dollars of work.Eiso Kant [00:39:00]: As we scale up models and they become more intelligent, we are excited about using them more and more for pushing the frontier of science.Small Models, Knowledge Work, and CommoditizationEiso Kant [00:39:08]: And if you look at the frontier of science, like true breakthroughs in science, they have been linked, they are linked to more intelligence in many places. Einstein figuring out general relativity is able to bring ideas together that other people would have not brought together. And I think one of the many dimensions of intelligence is the ability to do that, and it's something we clearly see that as models get larger and more capable, they're able to pull more ideas and threads together that a smaller model wouldn't be able to.Eiso Kant [00:39:36]: And we're starting to see examples of that in medicine and, like, in bio and other things. But if you think about the majority of knowledge work that we do, and it includes building software. I'm a software developer at heart first and foremost probably, although I probably can't say it that much anymore as I don't write production code in years, is that what makes us good is our persistence. It's our ability to encounter a problem and backtrack and say, “I need to go figure out this bug. I need to go research this. I need to go look at the documentation. I need to, like, try different, five different ways to see, like, if I can solve it.” But it is not necessarily bringing three ideas together from radically different fields. And so if we are now seeing, and I think Laguna S is an example, that we are able to make a relatively small model much more capable than I had definitely predicted or any previous, like, benchmarks had shown for any model remotely this size or even larger, At least on coding tasks, that it's because of the behaviors. And so now the question I have, and I don't have an answer, it is I know at the limit, so infinite model size, right, extremely large model, and the cost of that model is gonna be very expensive to run. We know this, right? So larger model ROI.Eiso Kant [00:40:52]: So I know that at the very limit, I'm not gonna use the world's largest model one day, quadrillion parameter, whatever crazy, like, scale we scale up, to do a basic coding task. Already today, I'm starting to size down for certain tasks.Eiso Kant [00:41:07]: So it means that there is an optimal. It means there's some curve that goes as we go up to model size for knowledge work, at some point we're at the peak, and after that, the return on investment of using a bigger model, just doesn't make sense.Eiso Kant [00:41:22]: Now, I think the question is, before I would have thought that peak was extremely very far away.Eiso Kant [00:41:30]: This model for me is the first sign that Maybe that peak is At a trillion, five trillion, ten trillion. Maybe we can just squeeze way more out of these models. I'm no longer thinking that we need two or three orders of magnitude on the largest models to be able to, solve knowledge work, the accounting, the legal, the code that we write. And so if that holds true, It is an argument for the commoditization of models. It's an argument that open source can win and, like, succeed in this world. And now it's of course a self-serving argument and it's a hopeful argument, but theoretically at the limit it works. We just have to go discover in the next couple of years of how much more we can squeeze out. Now, I do want to put a big asterisk. This does not mean I'm against scaling models. I think we ultimately only succeed if we scale our models as large as our competition. I do not like. I think we should not put our head in the sand and say we're gonna be king of open source small models. I think that's, It's a out. It's trying to be king of your own kingdom, but not realizing what the rest of the world's doing. All of us rather use a smarter, faster, more model. It's a sign of hope. And so I don't wanna overly state this is a good model. We have a long way to go to get to the state-art. But what hopefully people take away when they use this model is that the behaviors inside of it are what push it to be far more capable, less than necessarily the number of parameters.Pre-Training, Mid-Training, and RL Moving EarlierVibhu [00:43:03]: Is that mostly post-training? LikeEiso Kant [00:43:05]: YesVibhu [00:43:05]: Right.Eiso Kant [00:43:06]: It's entirely post-training.Vibhu [00:43:08]: Are we done improving anything on training? Is, like, training done?Eiso Kant [00:43:12]: No.Vibhu [00:43:12]: Okay.Eiso Kant [00:43:13]: SoVibhu [00:43:13]: I just wanted to cover training, and then we go post-trainingEiso Kant [00:43:15]: Training is not done. I mean, look, there's a part of training of just dealing with skill, right? Every new order of magnitude of model skill, you are going to get new things you gotta solve for. That'- but those are ultimately, engineering challenges.Eiso Kant [00:43:31]: I have a, I would say, a not commonly held opinion that reinforcement learning Will move earlier and earlier into training.Vibhu [00:43:42]: Yeah, training.Eiso Kant [00:43:44]: Not even training. Like training today, right, is, like if you look at - So we've been working on this for years already. and I think the best-- I think the first time we saw it out in public was the DeepSeek Zero paper. this is a year and a half ago, I think, if I recall correctly. where, you can Very early on in a model as it starts capable of being able to use language, et cetera, induce reasoning. and so the question that I have is like, we have this- we have the dataset that's the web. and the web, I think we could arguably say probably has The totality of humanity's knowledge somewhere encoded in different places. It's a huge variance degree of quality, from garbage data, and like once you look at training data, you really get humbled of like what the web is, to like, the most greatest scientific papers and best blog posts and like, best transcripts and whatnot.Eiso Kant [00:44:39]: And so now What we are trying to figure out, and have been doing a lot of work on, and it's a place where maybe not as open as we're on other things, but we will become more over time. we've been spending a couple of years really doing research on how can we turn the web into not just next token prediction, but into a way to teach the model to think earlier in its training. and I think there's a huge amount of gold to be found there. I think we are right now in, we've got some drugs in the industry. One of the drugs is distillation. Another drug is, more environments. Like, and they're great, and they make us feel good, and they make the models better, and like we're all addicted to them, and we'll use them, right? in various different ways. and but ultimately, I think we are still barely squeezing out of the web what we should be getting out of the web.Eiso Kant [00:45:33]: I think just next token prediction during training is not enough.Eiso Kant [00:45:36]: AndVibhu [00:45:38]: YeahEiso Kant [00:45:38]: I think we'll see some very interesting things still happen. and that RL in post-training to induce behaviors, to improve things, like I think - the whole world knows how to do this now. I think we're, we're scaling it up. Everyone is. But I wonder if we need to go as far as we're going today with environments. I'm not sure yetVibhu [00:46:01]: You mean we're going too far?Eiso Kant [00:46:02]: I'm, I'm not sure if the path to AGI is justVibhu [00:46:06]: Is more environmentEiso Kant [00:46:07]: More environments.Vibhu [00:46:08]: It seems like a never-ending, “Okay, I want instruction manual for this table, right? Am I gonna environment out building furniture? Or are we just gonna tail end like we need some general solution?”Eiso Kant [00:46:19]: I think there is, I think there's an ability to generalize more from the web. but I also am very encouraged, like when I look at Laguna S and, which is post-training is, well, is the big impact there. and I see like, oh, wait a second, just by making some of these behaviors much better, we're able to get so much more out of it. It just changes a little bit the way you think about intelligence.Vibhu [00:46:40]: Yeah. The analogy people draw often is the RL phase is where you don't learn as much new knowledge. You shiftEiso Kant [00:46:46]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:46:46]: Yeah. So, you shift distribution, and you can have it reason towards what you want. on your point about training, a lot of training is still just continue training in a domain, say medicine, then you do RL. So still justEiso Kant [00:47:00]: It's just better data, right? Like, I mean, training, ooh, I like how we invented this word. Like it's effectively just like,Vibhu [00:47:06]: Second phaseEiso Kant [00:47:07]: It's the second phase of training With like a really dumb way to do a curriculum. But like ultimately, what you'd want is a curriculum from token zero to token 30 whatever or 40 trillion tokens that really truly is the optimal curriculum for the model to learn. But training is essentially a stage curriculum on the web because we do not have to compute, And, effectively to try to ablate the perfect curriculum, right? And so I'm pretty sure that you'll start to see people talking soon about some other term, and there's two or - ‘cause now we do this, right? We talk stage two and stage three and stage four training and like. But ultimately, all we're doing is we're trying to assign a curriculum to the web data that we have to allow the model to learn better. I think at some point, as things get compute, as models get cheaper to run, as the next generations of compute, this will become more of a continuous spectrum. I also think the reason, by the way, you have training and like stage two and stage three is organizational, Right? It'- this is, I think, a thing where-- that we really try to avoid with the model factory is like Training exists because there's a training team now, right? There's people, or like people in training decide to focus on like a training effort. but what you really want is engineering and scale of experiments that allows for a much more continuous spectrum that you don't, you have infinite stages. Now, we're not there. Compute's not there. Organization design is not there for it yet. but I think we'll get there. we'll look back on a couple of years and be like, “Oh my God, it was so cute that we did our training data like this in such a like naïve way. Like we barely ordered it. We didn't really do a good job at likeCurriculum, Auto Research, and New ObjectivesVibhu [00:48:48]: The building that curriculum will get you that in the industry.Eiso Kant [00:48:51]: And I'll confirm that, when I talk to some researchers that this is a lot of the focus now is like how does training change and what is the next objective other than, next token prediction. I assume you don't have the answers, but you have some ideas.Vibhu [00:49:02]: We have some ideas. We're not ready to talk about it yet.Eiso Kant [00:49:05]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:49:05]: We've been working on them for years, and I think that's the one thing that's also like you asked earlier about, like what's not obvious about building a foundation model company is that you are constantly balancing the table stakes work, the recipe worksEiso Kant [00:49:19]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:49:19]: Versus like your, my crazyEiso Kant [00:49:22]: Pure researchVibhu [00:49:22]: Breakthrough.Eiso Kant [00:49:22]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:49:22]: Pure research and finding that balance and adjusting the percentage to it based on where you are in the race is really important.Eiso Kant [00:49:31]: I mean, so like, this is a nice way. I was gonna bring up auto research at some pointVibhu [00:49:35]: YesEiso Kant [00:49:35]: As another Andrej invention, or coinage, which is like, I honestly, like how many objective functions can there be, right? Like just try 1,000 of them, set it running, whatever.Vibhu [00:49:47]: Man, it's alsoEiso Kant [00:49:48]: Like what you're looking for. You're looking for loss curves like that, likeVibhu [00:49:51]: It's also a thing people take bets on, right? When you say more Neo labs, you're doing a version of we'll do foundation models, scale them up, next token predictors. A lot of other Neo labs that we see want to take a completely different approach, right? At some level, you're right. It's all, compute efficiency, and that's the net objective. But some are okay, different architecture, like vastly different amounts of compute spend. So some are different. They're not justEiso Kant [00:50:19]: YeahVibhu [00:50:19]: They're like, 99% not balancing, here's the vanilla and scale up. They're 99% on, here's novel research that'll change everything.Eiso Kant [00:50:27]: And I think, Luke, I think you. It depends when you started as well, right?Pure Research vs. Table StakesVibhu [00:50:30]: Yeah.Eiso Kant [00:50:30]: When we started, like the novel thing we did was reinforcement learning on code. No long- that's no longer novel by far, but we were like, - that's where we obsessed over when no one believed in RL. So you have to when you start the company, you have to have your own idea. You have to have something that's different that allows you to speed up, right? For us, it was RL to LLMs that later became common, like, Knowledge. But in the beginning, it wasn'tVibhu [00:50:53]: It's cool. this was like your original 2023 blogEiso Kant [00:50:57]: YeahVibhu [00:50:57]: Of purpose.Eiso Kant [00:50:58]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:50:59]: And like you do lay it all out here.Eiso Kant [00:51:01]: We laidVibhu [00:51:01]: The blog is pretty underrated, right? The whole RL on code was very early on.Eiso Kant [00:51:06]: Very early. And even we had to argue with people, like we say here things like to push beyond current capability, to train your own foundation model. We had to argue with people that it mattered that you had your own like, base model. you can fine-tune your way to success, right? major capabilities emerge from training a base model made accurate and useful during fine-tuning.Vibhu [00:51:23]: Which like, for perspective at the time, we knew closed models, OpenAI, Anthropic were huge. The open models we had were like Mistral 7B, a 30B, a 70B.Eiso Kant [00:51:35]: When weVibhu [00:51:35]: YeahEiso Kant [00:51:36]: The date on this thing is wrong. When we published this, it was April 2023. I think this was justVibhu [00:51:42]: YeahEiso Kant [00:51:42]: Happened on a migration, probably found it on archive.org.Vibhu [00:51:45]: Mistral.Eiso Kant [00:51:46]: Mistral had started, we started on the same month, right?Vibhu [00:51:49]: Yeah.Eiso Kant [00:51:49]: So this wasn't even, there was only, I think, Llama out at the timeVibhu [00:51:52]: SnellEiso Kant [00:51:52]: And that's it, right? And so, but I agree. I think we wan

Matt Kilgroe — President & CEO, Cyndeo Wealth Partners Matt Kilgroe shares how Cyndeo Wealth Partners grew from a newly launched $1.2B RIA to a $3.5B enterprise, and why the next challenge isn't independence, but building a firm capable of reaching $25B.  In Summary Five years after launching Cyndeo Wealth Partners from UBS, Matt Kilgroe returns to the podcast to discuss what happens after independence. Rather than focusing on the transition itself, Louis and Matt explore the next phase of growth: scaling an advisory business, attracting talent, developing niche expertise, taking on outside capital, and building an enterprise designed to last. Along the way, Matt shares how Cyndeo expanded from $1.2B to $3.5B, why serving professional athletes required a different business model, and what led the firm to partner with Rise Growth Partners as it looks toward a $25B future.  The Storyline For many advisors, independence is viewed as the finish line. For Matt Kilgroe, it became the starting point. When Cyndeo Wealth Partners launched in 2020, the goal wasn't simply to leave the wirehouse behind. It was to build a business with the flexibility to grow in ways that simply weren't possible before. Five years later, that vision has evolved into something much larger. Cyndeo has nearly tripled in size, expanded its niche serving professional athletes and entertainers, recruited advisors, added specialized operational talent, and recently welcomed Rise Growth Partners as a minority investor to help accelerate its next phase of growth. The conversation explores what changes when firm leaders stop thinking like advisors managing successful practices and begin thinking like CEOs building enduring enterprises. The discussion spans succession planning, capital strategy, recruiting, organizational design, and the mindset required to scale from billions to tens of billions—all while remaining focused on clients and culture.  Topics Covered Building an enterprise beyond independence Scaling from $1.2B to $3.5B in assets Organic growth versus recruiting Serving professional athletes and entertainers Why fiduciary independence matters for niche client segments Building operational infrastructure for growth Partnering with Dynasty Financial Partners Minority capital and Rise Growth Partners Succession planning and employee ownership Thinking from $3.5B to $25B > Download a transcript of this episode… Listen and Learn Highlights for Advisors What did Matt learn after transitioning nearly 98% of his clients? (06:20) Why client relationships—not firm logos—proved to be the firm's greatest asset during one of the most challenging transitions imaginable. How did Cyndeo nearly triple in size in five years? (16:10) Matt discusses the combination of niche specialization, disciplined organic growth, recruiting, and operational investment that fueled the firm's expansion. Why has Cyndeo become a destination for professional athletes? (17:15) The conversation explores how deep industry expertise, fiduciary flexibility, and specialized service created a business that would have been difficult to build inside a wirehouse. Why bring on a minority capital partner when the business was already thriving? (24:15) Matt explains why succession planning, future recruiting, and long-term enterprise growth made outside capital the right decision. How should advisors think about ownership versus compensation? (35:40) A candid discussion about enterprise value, equity, and why many advisors underestimate the long-term economics of ownership. What does it actually take to scale toward $25B? (42:20) From hiring executive talent to expanding geographically, Matt shares how he's thinking about the next chapter of Cyndeo's evolution. Key Takeaways Independence creates opportunities that extend well beyond higher payouts, including enterprise value, recruiting flexibility, and ownership. Scaling a business requires investing in operational leadership, not just adding advisors. Specialized client niches demand expertise that goes well beyond investment management. Outside capital can accelerate growth when it's aligned with long-term strategy rather than an exit. Building an enduring enterprise requires thinking differently about succession, talent, governance, and equity. https://youtu.be/WRYJd9Lkt7o Quotable Moments “Don't rent your practice. Own it.” “You can't work in those niches and not be a fiduciary.” “We're not done.” “The road from $3B to $25B is going to really compound on your equity.”  FAQs Why did Cyndeo decide to take on a minority capital partner? To support its next phase of growth, strengthen succession planning, recruit additional talent, and benefit from the experience of leaders who have successfully scaled wealth management businesses before. How did Cyndeo grow from $1.2B to $3.5B? Through a combination of consistent organic growth, specialized client niches, advisor recruiting, and investments in operational infrastructure. Why is serving professional athletes or other niche client segments different from serving traditional wealth clients? Niche client segments often face unique financial decisions involving private investments, business opportunities, and career transitions that require specialized knowledge and a fiduciary framework. What advantages did independence create that weren't available inside a wirehouse? Matt points to greater flexibility around private investments, the ability to build specialized client experiences, reward employees with equity, and create an enterprise with lasting value. How should advisors think about building versus joining an independent firm? The discussion highlights the tradeoffs between creating your own firm and joining an established independent enterprise, emphasizing that ownership and long-term equity often matter more than headline payouts. What does Matt believe is required to build a $25B firm? A willingness to invest beyond advisors alone, adding executive leadership, expanding geographically, recruiting strategically, and maintaining a long-term enterprise mindset. To support its next phase of growth, strengthen succession planning, recruit additional talent, and benefit from the experience of leaders who have successfully scaled wealth management businesses before. Through a combination of consistent organic growth, specialized client niches, advisor recruiting, and investments in operational infrastructure. Niche client segments often face unique financial decisions involving private investments, business opportunities, and career transitions that require specialized knowledge and a fiduciary framework. Matt points to greater flexibility around private investments, the ability to build specialized client experiences, reward employees with equity, and create an enterprise with lasting value. The discussion highlights the tradeoffs between creating your own firm and joining an established independent enterprise, emphasizing that ownership and long-term equity often matter more than headline payouts. A willingness to invest beyond advisors alone, adding executive leadership, expanding geographically, recruiting strategically, and maintaining a long-term enterprise mindset. Related Resources Article: Your Practice Isn't Worth What You ThinkMost advisors misjudge their business's value, not because of the number, but because of the framework. Learn what really drives enterprise value. Rise and Reinvent: Joe Duran on Building and Rebuilding World-Class FirmsHe's built and rebuilt some of the industry's most successful firms and now he's helping others do the same. In this episode, Joe Duran, the founder of Rise Growth Partners, shares lessons from building, selling, and starting again, and how staying curious and adaptable fuels lasting success. Matt KilgroePresident/CEO Prior to launching Cyndeo Wealth Partners in 2020, Matt ran advisory teams at Merrill Lynch and UBS Financial for 29 years. Providing guidance, counsel, and strategy for families the firm serves is Matt's passion. In addition to his role as an advisor, Matt works in a leadership capacity for Cyndeo while also helping with business development. Matt has been recognized by Barron's as a Top 1000 or Top 1200 Advisor consistently since 2009. In 2020 Forbes named him to their “Best-In-State Wealth Advisor” list. A graduate of Eckerd College, Matt has served on the Board of Trustees at his alma mater since 2012. His three children are his pride and joy. Daughter Carrington owns Sunstate Yoga studio in St. Petersburg, son Kent is a financial advisor with Cyndeo, and daughter Jillian recently graduated Florida State University. An athlete in college, Matt continues to enjoy staying in shape, playing basketball, and bike riding. NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation. View the transcript of this episode… True Alignment: Advising Business Owners on Wealth, Significance, and Value A conversation with Jason Diamond, Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry – Founding Partners at Panoramic Capital Partners. Jason Diamond: Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is True Alignment: Advising Business Owners on Wealth, Significance, and Value. It’s a conversation with Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry, Founding Partners, Panoramic Capital Partners. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors. Mindy Diamond: At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report. It’s the award-winning, data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport. Jason Diamond: Advisory firms that work with business owner clients typically operate through a fairly traditional wealth management lens. The business may be the source of the wealth, but the advice itself often centers around investments, planning, and asset allocation, yet Panoramic Capital Partners approaches that equation differently. Nick Hubert and Taylor Gentry are the founding partners of the roughly $450 million RIA, serving about 150 families with a seven-person team. And while they come from very different professional backgrounds, Nick with more of a relationship and storytelling orientation, Taylor from the analytical and private equity side, they’ve built the firm around a shared philosophy tied to what they call personal significance, personal wealth, and personal value. A big part of that philosophy, or the north star as they put it, is applying some of the same accountability and long-term thinking frameworks commonly seen in private equity to the advisory relationship itself, not in a transactional sense, but in helping clients think more intentionally about decision-making, alignment, and outcomes over long periods of time. As a result, our conversation delves deeply into the private equity world, reframing how clients and advisors should consider this important tool as both a growth mechanism and a strategic part of their client’s plans. We talk about how that perspective also shapes not only how they think about serving business owners specifically, but also the role private equity should play in wealth management. Then we take a view of their long runway and how they and other younger advisors might see things differently about building firms today and why clarity of vision may matter more than sheer scale in the years ahead, and much, much more. It’s a narrative that is refreshing and informative, so let’s get to it. Taylor, Nick, thank you so much for joining. Walk us through your background. What brought you to the world of wealth management? Nick, let’s start with you. Nick Hubert: Sure. I think I got my first taste of the industry actually in a sophomore year of college internship, or I interned at Morgan Stanley here in Oregon. I studied finance and accounting at University of Oregon, and so I had this affinity for finance and markets and had that privilege of having that internship. So I had it early on in my career. Ultimately ended up setting my sights on doing investment banking and going that route and did that for a short period of time. Ended up not going very long due to a medical reason, so you don’t have to be that sorry for me. And ultimately started my career in business consulting before pretty quickly realizing that I want to get back to finance, back to investing these things that just felt like core competencies and that thing that you keep coming back to when you’re alone in the middle of the night thinking about stuff, it was always that. Just had this desire to work with smaller units than large corporations, which is great for wealth where you get to work with families and small businesses. And so it was just a natural alignment that took me back full-time to the space in 2016. Jason Diamond: I like the framing it through the size of the unit you’re working with and having more of an impact on the family. Taylor, what about you? Taylor Gentry: I’m a little more circuitous, if you will. Spent a couple of years in investment banking, so you can be sorry for me. Nick and I met in undergrad at the University of Oregon, had the opportunity to work in this investment group together where we were investing a portion of the university’s endowment. And like Nick, interned in wealth management and kind of walked away from it going, “Boy, that’s boring. I don’t really like that.” And so moved to New York, cut my teeth in banking for a couple years and we were working… So an investment bank for context, helping companies raise debt, raise equity, and with mergers and acquisitions, we’re working with huge companies. So the Mattels of the world, the largest toy company in the world. Like Nick, realized, “Hey, I’m going to work with smaller companies that we can get our arms around a little bit better and be more helpful with and have a bigger impact on.” So spent about 10 years with a private equity firm in the western half of the US and we invested in companies in what’s referred to as the lower middle market. So companies doing 50 to 300 million of revenue. And we would invest in those companies, grow those businesses and then look to sell them. Awesome experience, learned a ton, got a bunch of experience around how to invest in companies, how to grow businesses. Then had the opportunity to step into the CFO seat of a couple of different operating companies during that time. It was just a great learning ground, but also to see a whole bunch of different situations. Nick and I have always invested in things together. We’ve worked on things together and we’ve always wanted to work together full time. And a few years ago, the stars really just aligned to say, “Hey, what would it look like to create a differentiated offering in the wealth space where we can blend my background on companies, transactions, how to draw on scale and all those pieces and really marry that with the wealth management piece?” And Nick will get into that further, but it’s just a really unique way to partner with families and companies that are smaller which can have a really high impact experience with those families and really move them through their life journey, if you will. Jason Diamond: Yeah, there’s a lot to unpack there and we’ll get to some of the elements of how you run the business today. First of all, you can’t fool me by using a toy company as your example to make investment banking more interesting. I’m just kidding. Actually, my real takeaway there is you have a skillset that is incredibly relevant in the current wealth management ecosystem, especially in the model you’re currently in. So let’s talk about that a little. Tell us about your current chapter, which is Panoramic Capital Partners. Who do you serve? What types of clients? Give me some perspective on size as well. Nick Hubert: I'm going to take this first. Taylor can do the PE background side and give you a bunch of numbers. I’ll give you the story and see if we can piece it together that way. Jason Diamond: I get the impression you guys use that line a lot. Nick Hubert: Oh, no, that’s the first time. How’d it land? Jason, I spent eight years at our prior firm with our third founding partner, Andrew, and he was at that firm for 30 years. And so we’ve got this core DNA that we’ve always carried of serving high net worth families in a very holistic and deep planning-based capacity, which I think a lot of modern firms say that. And so that’s not necessarily that different, but it is a DNA that carries through. When we got struck with this vision of launching Panoramic and what inspired us to build the firm, it was as, Taylor outlined, around this idea of how do we partner with entrepreneurs and business owners more holistically across their entire entrepreneurial journey, not just around the exit as is so often where the gravity of the conversation sits. And so our firm vision and inspiration was all around that. And since launching in May of 2024, it has been about how do we bring that vision to life with a different business model. And to your point, there’s a bunch to unpack there, but that is ultimately the founding vision of what we are trying to build here overall and what inspires us every day to say, how do we, as Taylor mentioned, bring the combination of skillsets to bear in a way that allows us to be a better partner along the entirety of the journey as opposed to just towards the end when assets traditionally show up, so to speak? So that’s a story from a vision perspective. Taylor, I don’t know what you want to add to that. Taylor Gentry: As Nick outlined, it’s the ability to work with folks throughout the lifecycle. So in private equity, you invest in a company, you work with that management team for three to seven years and then you sell the business and move on to the next project or deal. And really, it’s the deal mechanic that is the value creation. Whereas, with what we are building here, we have the opportunity to really step along the journey with folks when they are in the early phases building what we talk about as the middle phase of allocating, and we’ll talk about this further, and then really the third phase of stewarding capital along the way. And it’s a life cycle or entrepreneurial journey that we’re able to be hand in hand with folks over decades opposed to measured in three to five year spans. Jason Diamond: So it sounds, and you’ve both kind of touched on this now, your different backgrounds, you view as very much a positive because it gives you, Taylor, the more in the weeds analytical perspective. Nick, you’re probably more the storyteller. Do you find that to be a benefit when you’re running your firm every day? And are there instances when it’s a negative? Is there ever a time when you say, Taylor, just maybe more for you, not coming from this world, you don’t speak the same language? Nick Hubert: Do you want me to drop off the call so Taylor can be honest and he can give you the scoop and then he can jump off and I’ll give you the scoop? Taylor Gentry: Jason, we talk about that a lot, honestly. I think it is atypical for someone with my background to step into the wealth space maybe more so. And we leverage that because we have the ability to work with folks on how do you drive value in the company, how do you set the business up for a potential sale exit or transition internally? But this business, historically, we’ve talked about it as almost like two tracks. You have Taylor on the quote unquote business consulting or the business work track and you have Nick on a wealth management track. It’s really not the case. And really, the power is the ability for these two pieces to come together and there isn’t a conversation we have with clients where those two perspectives and backgrounds or contexts aren’t married into one to create really truly holistic advice. And so Nick will probably tell you otherwise, but I haven’t seen an area yet where our two backgrounds has been a negative. It’s actually been immensely positive. And then on top of it, in terms of kind of building out the firm, Nick is more of a traction visionary and I’m more of the traction implementer. What’s amazing about it from our perspective is the partnership we have allows us to, A, recognize that, B, name it, and then C, leverage it in terms of being able to dole out duties and maximize our success together. Jason Diamond: Nick, anything you’d add? Nick Hubert: I think that’s all right. I mean, Jason, your question was from an operational perspective. I think a lot of Taylor’s view is from a client perspective, which is spot on that the overlap of that is really helpful for clients and I think what allows it to be a different experience for them. Internally, operationally, I think that where you could see friction there amongst partners with differences, and I think you do see that, and at the same time, Google was the one who did team research 15 years ago where they put out what you really want, is similarity and vision and differences in skillset when building a team. And so I think we’ve been intentional about that and it’s been really helpful for… Taylor and I functionally met in a quasi-professional setting back in 2011 and developed a friendship quickly, so we’ve got that deep level of friendship that underpins all of it. And same with Andrew and our time working together. So part of it is there’s just such a strength of relationship amongst us that we give space for each other’s differences and look for those as assets as opposed to negatives, but in some sense, beauty in the eye of the beholder as is the case with anything. Jason Diamond: Yep. I appreciate you adding that context. I’ll be honest that when I first encountered your firm, my reaction was your core value prop of serving business owners is not all that differentiated. And then I learned more about the way in which you serve business owners. Can you talk about that? Because a lot of advisors in general, but then I think more specifically, a lot of RIAs would say, “We service primarily business owners.” Tell me how do you do it in a way that’s different and meaningful? Nick Hubert: I’ll take a first stab at that and then Taylor can maybe add on with specific stories. The wealth space is an awesome business and it’s a place where it’s very difficult to differentiate. And so we think a lot about that through the lens of how do we grow this business well for the long period of time to create opportunities for clients and employees. And so we spent a lot of time thinking about that, not only for the sake of differentiation, but also how do we actually just continue to add value to clients? Because if we add value in a different way, growth will take care of itself. I’d say one way of cutting that is we revisit the mission is through this idea of, okay, if I want to be a partner along the journey, it’s about more than a single transaction, more than a single exit, whatever that might be, or a series of transactions as wealth is often created over a series of transactions. It’s this idea of how do we focus on wealth creation and driving business value as the engine of wealth creation for entrepreneurs and what we call personal significance, which is the life of the entrepreneur. And so there’s a next click down framing of our framework that we work through that lens. I think the most important piece for us has been how do we build a business model that actually brings that to life and that’s the trick because we can say that, and if we basically still just operate out of an AUM-based or an asset advisory fee-based business, the reality is my incentive is still towards getting assets out of the entrepreneurial environment, so to speak, into a place that I can manage them, which may or may not be the best thing for the entrepreneur based on where they are at. And so our current work continues to be around how do we build that business model. So layering in different ways of engaging, whether it’s a retainer fee or some other way of engaging so we can start earlier when assets aren’t there and actually encourage the entrepreneur, “No, keep reinvesting in your business. It’s your highest rate of return right now and it’s where the investment needs to go.” I don’t want to have a conflict in giving that advice. And so I think step two here has been building that business model from an actual engagement perspective to enable us to enact the vision. And then I think the third piece is how do we then build tools that are different than just evaluating pre-exit planning, and as is so often, the toolkit, but actually saying, okay, what are the value drivers of a business? And this is probably where Taylor has a lot more to add because it’s 101 of the PE model, but how do we take the mission and vision of an entrepreneur, what we call north stars, translate those into value drivers, ensure those tie to strategic initiatives in the business, ensure it ties to reporting, and ultimately, how capital is allocated between the business and other investments? So then that’s our toolkit that we continue to build out to deploy the mission through our business model with tools that back it up. So that’s how we frame it right now. Taylor, we can share stories about how that’s come to fruition to create different outcomes. Jason Diamond: Taylor, I’d love to hear that. Let me just add maybe my understanding, because this is what helped me, I think, to really understand how you defer, and Nick and Taylor, correct me if I’m wrong, it sounds like the typical advisor thinks about an entrepreneur, a business owner relationship as the next liquidity event in most cases. And you take the viewpoint that it’s a journey, in some instances, 30 years in the making. It’s not even about liquidity event might come that’s beside the point. Is that a fair summary? Taylor Gentry: Yeah. We talk about it as a growing business is a healthy business, a business that is creating incremental value and adding to the multiple in terms of how the business is valued in the marketplace is a healthy business. And so whether you are going to sell that business or retain that business into perpetuity, let’s make a really valuable business and grow a very healthy business. And that’s what we do with clients. Nick laid out the north star framework. And so how do we actually go about engaging with folks on a practical level? It does start with the north star framework. It’s got five steps to it as Nick outlined in terms of defining the north star, where we’re going, what we’re trying to do and that’s across those three pillars, personal significance, personal wealth and business value. And that personal significance has to be held at that same level. Otherwise, we find folks that are mid 50s, their business is crazy valuable, they’ve got a lot of dollars, but their family life isn’t where they want it to be because they didn’t take care of that along the way. So we lay out a place map that says, “Hey, these are the north stars that we are aligning on and coming back to every month when we work with these owners.” We then push that into, okay, what are we trying to do on the business side of the equation? Let’s lay out what is going to drive the value of the business from a multiple and enterprise value perspective. We push that into a set of strategic initiatives that is tactical, who owns what, when’s it getting done, and are we red, yellow or green on it? We then build out the performance reporting package with folks. And so that is a monthly reporting package that says what happened last month and what operational data are we looking at to be able to improve the business month over month and get a good feedback loop going into the company. And then the last piece is around capital allocation that Nick mentioned where if the business generates a million dollars, where’s that capital going? I think there’s a lot in there and it’s really deep, but if you zoom all the way back out, it’s take a private equity style playbook where private equity firms come and invest in a company. And what do they do after close? They put in place good financial reporting, good operational reporting, and then hold the team accountable to that reporting and those results on a monthly, quarterly, and annual basis. And so this is not rocket science or something that’s never been seen before. It’s just most business owners that have never experienced this private equity world don’t have access to it and don’t know how to go about doing it. It’s a relatively long process to get that installed with companies and with teams to really dig in and understand it, but it’s building out those packages to be able to say, “Okay, what happened last month? What changes do we need to make and what are we doing from a initiative perspective to drive the business forward?” So to Nick’s point, it was previously, this was all about liquidity planning or from a wealth management perspective, it’s about the exit. This is about how do we make a more valuable business along the way, and that’s going to be good for the entrepreneur as they move through the journey. Nick Hubert: When we were around the dinner table, the proverbial dinner table creating the vision of this firm, it was around this idea of the silver tsunami and everything that everybody reads in the headlines of this massive wave of transition, this generational transition of business ownership that we could help facilitate. So we launched with that thesis in some sense. In addition to this broader journey perspective, we have gotten to this place by following the market and listening to what entrepreneurs actually want through the big unlock was honestly in a deal process with one of our clients where we realized, “This is a great deal. This person’s going to put a ton of money in their pockets, secure their future,” and it’s completely the wrong outcome for the entrepreneur because it’s thinking all about the deal, not thinking about what this person didn’t want was an exit. They wanted a different relationship with their business, and that required, what do you actually want out of life, that personal significance piece? And it required, “Hey, if we can actually create a layer of team members and reporting that allows you to manage this like a board chair would do as opposed to a highly engaged CEO. That’s actually what you want. You don’t want out of this business. You want to still have this be a huge rock in your life.” And so we’ve ran through that door, said no to the deal with them and have been building the infrastructure around this, and that was the unlock and aha moment for us. There’s something bigger here and that’s what then inspired, in some sense, the broader build out of the toolkit, but I think puts more meat on the bone of actually saying no to a deal, which is not the classic wealth manager outcome to get to a way better outcome for the client and is ultimately still an awesome client for us as a firm and somebody that we can go build with for the next 20 years. I think just telling it through the lens of a story that’s different than what’s normal, so to speak, is a way to frame that up. Jason Diamond: It’s such a hyper focus on a fairly long-term and honestly nebulous potential outcome. You don’t have certainty. That, I think, is why most advisors would prefer the near-term liquidity. I mean, it’s not a secret, right? You can bill on assets, firms are incentivizing it and it’s a pretty direct recipe to net new asset growth, but it’s certainly a refreshing point of view. It resonates with me. I’m wondering if it’s resonated with clients and prospects. I guess what I’m asking is, do they feel that this is something different than the typical wealth management experience for this type of client? Nick Hubert: Yeah, Taylor, tell that story of the guy who said, “I’ve had this, but I felt alone.” I think that story of partnership, you tell pretty well. Taylor Gentry: Yeah. Jason, it was actually that same client, he had a investment banker, a wealth manager, attorney, and a CPA. CPA said, “The deal’s terrible, you shouldn’t do the deal.” Investment bankers obviously incentivized to do the deal. And so he’s saying, “You should do the deal.” That’s how he gets paid. He had a wealth manager who was silent and he had an attorney who just pushing paperwork. Jason Diamond: It’s like the start of a bad joke. Taylor Gentry: Yeah. No, seriously, it’s pretty remarkable. It’s like this guy did what he was supposed to do. He put the team of resources around himself. He got professionals in the seat. It’s that no one could connect the dots of all four of those people because they have the seat of those four people. And so it’s really resonated because there’s an ability to see a bigger picture and connect these dots and say, “Okay, this investment banker is saying X because of A, B and C.” And the CPA is saying it’s a bad deal and that it’s not a market deal. It’s 100% a market deal. This deal is right down the fairway in terms of what the market should value your company at and they just don’t understand how the transaction mechanics should work. And so it’s worked really well from that perspective of being able to be the quarterback or centralized point or personal CFO for folks in understanding where interests lie and also being able to think about what they are pursuing in a bit of a different lens. I think the second piece on that is where does it resonate for folks? I think that there is a gap in the marketplace that we are still working to close, and that gap is that business owners do not know what this monthly reporting package looks like. They do not know what really good reporting on their business looks like in terms of they have always run their… You’ve got a business owner. They’ve run their business for 10 or 20 years. They have a pulse on the business from their gut feel. That does not mean that the business has been optimized, is ready to go to the next level or is ready for a transaction and go through a transaction because they have not done the work on the backend to understand the moving pieces of the business at a granular level. This recording package, we oftentimes get this confusion around, well, I’ve got a temporary CFO or a controller or X, Y, Z. That is very different than what we’re talking about. Well, that is all accounting, close the books, have clean numbers. What we’re talking about is how do I marry operational data in the business, number of units ships, number of jobs completed, time on job, operational data to the financials in the business so I can then go make adjustments operationally on how to improve the business and continue taking steps forward. Jason Diamond: It’s very clear. Nick, anything you’d want to add to that? Nick Hubert: I’d say it’s easy to still cut that from a deal lens and say, look, when an investment partner comes to evaluate a business to sit in their seat for a moment, they’re going to look at the replicability of what that leader has done without that leader still in the seat. And if so many businesses are still reliant on that person and this gets talked about as processes, reporting systems, that ultimately results in a discount to the value of the business because although it can be viewed… For the leader, it’s like, it’s that control thing that entrepreneurs deal with. It’s what made them good. It’s what got you there. And so that transition is really hard. And that’s important from a deal lens because that does a direct impact to value. And to widen out the scope beyond the deal and to think about the entrepreneur’s life, this goes back to the dynamic that a lot of times entrepreneurs look for the exits because they’ve built something that it’s now owning them and what they’ve built is not resulting in the life that they want. And so how can we use this system to actually change that relationship, as I mentioned earlier, with the business so that they can run it more like an executive might and get out of the knife fight, so to speak, that often is how this can feel for a lot of folks, even for pretty large businesses. It can just feel like you’re a firefighter, you’re in a knife fight, whatever you want to use for that terminology. I think it’s as much about creating a different life outcome and different relationship and owning and leading a business as it is in driving deal value. Jason Diamond: Taylor, maybe I’ll ask this of you. Forgive the question, but private equity, I think in our space, has a little bit of a negative stigma at the moment. I don’t think that’s true across the board. I think people appreciate generally the need for capital and there are certainly benefits of private equity. But I’ll say as a whole, advisors are, let’s say, suspicious of private equity. You ever get that pushback? Does anybody ever view your experience or the way you position the story as a negative? Taylor Gentry: I think most people that we talk to don’t know what private equity is. They may have seen it in the headlines. They may have some sort of connotation around it. They won’t come out and say that they don’t like it. They don’t know why they don’t like it. The average American business owner, they don’t know what it is or what it means. So yes, you do have to fight that because of the headline piece around private equity, bad actor ABC, and that’s what gets the headlines. I think what private equity is really good at is taking a business that is not optimized or not running on systems and processes that it can run on. Again, it's not rocket science is not crazy hard. It’s just the private equity world has created ways to install systems and process that improve the value of the business by way of providing visibility to financials and operations in a way that the owner previously didn’t have. And so for us, we view it not by any means as the end all be all or the answer. There are clients we’ve worked with that have taken private equity capital and grown successfully, executed on some acquisitions and then exited again. There are clients that have evaluated those transactions and said, “Hey, not for me.” We are actually fairly agnostic to it. What we really spend a lot of our time on is what are we solving for? What’s the end game? How do we use this private equity transaction to get to where we’re trying to go and is it what we want at the end of the day? Because the reality is, if you’re going to stay on and run that business with private equity investment in, there’s a higher expectation on what you need to do Monday morning than when you owned it yourself and it was a little bit of your personal piggy bank too. Jason Diamond: I love it because you bring it back to the north star concept. Taylor Gentry: Yes, that’s exactly right. It’s what are we solving for and what game are we playing to be able to get to where we ultimately want to go? And for, as Nick mentioned that client that turned down the deal, it was a private equity investment. We got very clear with that, “Hey, here are going to be the expectations. You will have a monthly financial reporting call. You’re going to have quarterly board meetings.” These are things that need to happen in this business to be able to upgrade the management and cadence in this company. You don’t have to do it all tomorrow, but that is how you make a more valuable company, is installing some of these systems, process and cadence. And so we’re working with him now on doing that, just in a private context instead of in the private equity backed environment. Nick Hubert: I think there are three things embedded in this. I’d say number one, to Taylor’s point, this is a massive black box, in some ways by design. Wall Street’s had not a great reputation for a very long time of putting things behind the paywall, so to speak. And so we think a lot about our job as empowerment and education. Jason Diamond: Education, yep. Nick Hubert: Yeah. And so part of it is just, number one, how do we just demystify this thing and name things and take away the go to or bad? Because it can be that, but it should not be that from a core basis. That’s number one. Number two, a lot of entrepreneurs feel like they cannot get access to this ability to professionalize or level up or whatever these things are without bringing on that investment partner. And so part of our motivation is how do we actually bring this skillset in without needing to bring on an investment partner because oftentimes, that investment partner comes when you’re done, and so you don’t actually get to experience it. That’s number two. Number three is, Jason, part of your point earlier was like there’s still a trap here of potentially being able to get motivated primarily by the exit. And so again, that gets back to our business model, making sure our price Racing is right, all that good stuff. And it’s also the reality that a lot of businesses, if you just look at a very broad scope of American businesses, a lot of them don’t have value in the marketplace in a massively material way and/or won’t exit in a traditional way. And so the wealth creation journey then becomes much more of a conversation of, how do we manage the balance between investing in the company and distributing out of the company to invest elsewhere because we should actually be creating investment assets along the way because when you get to the exit, there’s no better power position at the moment of exit than already having financial security to some degree and giving you choice in the right deal, not the highest and best deal because you need to fill the piggy bank for retirement. Jason Diamond: I just want to be sure to ask because you did mention a couple times your pricing structure. How have you set it up so that you can be more agnostic about this as opposed to the typical… You want to talk about it for a minute? Nick Hubert: As it’s structured now, it starts with a retainer earlier on where we are working… As Taylor mentioned, we are going deep in the operational build of the business. We will do that on a monthly retainer. We’re engaging consistently. As assets get built up and if assets get built up, we start to chew that retainer down as assets go up. I think what we are ideally trying to figure out, and still honestly have not figured out yet, is how do we get to parity so that we don’t create an… I want to be able to work agnostically with a client to say- Jason Diamond: Yeah, I love it. Nick Hubert: … regardless of how I’m engaging with you, that’s the goal. So I’d say we haven’t cracked the code on exactly what that is yet, but mechanically, we’ve got the levers to pull to say how we price and move that retainer down is basically allowing to keep it at par, so to speak, for the client and allowing us to say, “I’m here to engage in making the best wealth creation outcome for you along the way, whether that’s investing in the business or investing outside the business.” Jason Diamond: I think that’s the right recipe. I agree. The levers can be fine-tuned, but to me, that’s the model you want to create where you can credibly look your prospects and clients in the eyes and tell them, “Our job is to serve you in the best way… We’re sitting on the same side of the table as you.” I want to turn this inward for a second. The home cooking concept. M&A, within the RIA independent space, is obviously a hot topic. Have you thought about it? Do you think it’s a critical part of a potential growth trajectory of a healthy, independent firm? I’m curious your perspective. I feel you, Taylor in particular, probably have a unique lens on this coming from the world you came from. Taylor Gentry: Yeah, Jason, I think if Nick and I wanted to put as much money as we possibly could in our pockets as fast as humanly possible. It’s a pretty easy recipe. It’s go get some private equity capital backer, roll up a few RIAs, get to a few billion of AUM and then sell it to the next private equity firm or roll it to the next private equity firm, do that a few times. We’d all make plenty of money and go on our way. We’ve been really intentional on this front, and again, I talk about this is what we want to do for the next 30 plus years. And really being intentional around building a business that has that enduring nature to it, decided to take private equity capital on, you are on a shot clock to some degree. Yes, you’re trying to build a best business, all of those pieces. You get cadence. You get capital. There’s a ton of value there, but you are on a shot clock that is not a shot clock we’re trying to get on at this stage. I’d say we opportunistically are looking at acquisitions. So we think about it, and Nick and I talk about it all the time, how much of our time should we be spending on acquisitions? And we think of it as 80/20 or even 90/10, 80% or 90% organic growth-focused, 10 to 20% acquisitions-focused. And so we’re actively evaluating those consistently and see deals on a monthly basis that we look at and evaluate, but it’s less of the focus today than it could be down the road. Jason Diamond: And Nick, do you think of that when you guys talk? Do you guys call that your true north? Do you think the same way you coach your clients and prospects to say, “For right now, it wouldn’t be the right move for us to take private equity capital and to do this acquisition rollup strategy because A, B and C are more important for us”? Nick Hubert: Yes. I think if we take our life north star for Taylor. I’m speaking for Taylor, but we’re close and so we share this of… To Taylor’s point, the life outcome of scaling that quickly with that type of capital backing is likely to create a life that I don’t actually want that’s not good for me, not good for my family, and honestly, not good for our clients at this point. And so that overrides in this case, even though the wealth, north star might say, “Hey, absolutely do that.” At some point something has to win. And so that is true. At the business side, as the north star is motivated by this mission of the entire entrepreneur journey, the worst thing I could do is shortcut my ability to be on that journey for a long period of time. One of our friends in this space says, “The best thing I can do for my clients is still be in the seat 30 years from now because I’ve lived a good life that enables that.” And I think that’s spot on for us, is everything, it’s so easy in today’s world to be consumed by short-termism and we are intentional in ensuring that we don’t succumb to that. While still recognizing to your point, I mean, you’re in this all day, Jason, right? There’s a massive opportunity in front of us to be thoughtful about how acquisitions fit into this. And I think we want to be open to that in a way that ensures we just don’t lose the core of the goodness of what we’re trying to build. Jason Diamond: I think that’s the right answer. The only wrong answer in my mind is we’re not open to this or we’re closed to it. To not at least be opportunistically aware of the dynamics in the market, I think is naive. But also, I’ll be honest, Nick, when I think about the concept of the north star, I have a hard time imagining, because we use a similar concept when we counsel advisors. What is your true north or your north star and your best business life, whatever you want to call it? To me, it does include absolutely the personal piece. I think it’s hard to define it only on the economic verticals because, I mean, I think about this for a transitioning advisor. Almost never is the conversation about crunch the spreadsheet and get us the biggest check possible. It’s, yeah, sure, transition capital is important, but it’s let’s also, we want a better work life and we want freedom to market and blah, blah, blah. To me, I think it’s a completely fair way. You two are looking at it at least for now and I assume you reserve the right to revise that opinion down the line. Nick Hubert: I think acquiring for size and scale is as often the headline is, yeah, we’re not into that at this point because I think… And yet, hey, if the right acquisition with the right people came along in that, we’d be extremely excited and would move very quickly to execute on that. So it’s a little bit of a both hand. Taylor Gentry: Yeah. Jason, I think it goes without saying, but my background on having done a bunch of transactions of businesses like this, it’s a natural fit for us to have this as a lever. And so we are looking at deals. We just haven’t prioritized it as the top priority. Jason Diamond: I think also where you are, 2024 was the launch of the business. It’s pretty common to see, all right, let’s nail this, let’s get our feet under us, client service model and then we’ll start to think about that down the line. A couple other things I want to ask you about running an independent firm. This is a pretty glowingly positive review, I think, of your ability to service clients, your ability to grow and to build and run the business that you want. Has there been anything negative that you haven’t enjoyed about running and operating this business, other than working with each other, of course? Nick Hubert: No, I was going to say, I’m like, can we get Taylor off the call again? Taylor Gentry: Jason, maybe I’ll take a first cut at it. I think for both Nick and I, it’s just the administrative components of running an independent business that we don’t enjoy candidly. I don’t think many people would. That said, you come full circle and it is a pretty glowingly positive review of running an independent business because we get to run it in the way that we see fit. And oh, by the way, we use the same things that we use with our clients. So the value drivers we’ve talked about, we have a value drivers worksheet. We refresh it every six months. Nick, Andrew, and I get together every six months and we’re 18 months into this thing and we’ve already got this cadence and system to it, if you will. So I personally really enjoy the running the business piece of it from a macro perspective. Yeah, I’m responsible for running our fee billing and running the math on all that and getting that done, for example. Jason Diamond: I think that’s actually a very thoughtful answer. And I appreciate you saying I enjoy running… I feel the same way, by the way. There’s some elements of running a business that I think are immensely fun. I think it gets painted with this brush of, “Ugh, running the business is the hassle and I want to work in the business.” Agreed, nobody likes invoicing and accounts receivable for the most part, but Nick, what are your thoughts on this? Nick Hubert: Yeah, I think mine is different a little bit coming from a different background where it’s easier for me to sit with the rose-colored glasses of the joy of the freedom that we have in this model. At the same time, when I’m counseling folks who are talking with folks or mentoring folks, younger people who are thinking about, “Okay, I want to go start my own thing,” I’m like, “Hey, it’s like I’m the same way. I want to look in the mirror and think I’m the boss or I’m one of the bosses and we get to go build this.” Then the reality is, at the end of the day, if there was something that you didn’t want to do that had to get done and you didn’t do it, you got to look in the mirror and be like, “Well, you’re the boss, you didn’t do it.” It’s the both sides of the coin that I think a positive, negative cut is one way to look at that because it can feel that way sometimes. And the reality is every job has 20 to 30% of it that you just don’t enjoy doing, and that’s totally true. Jason Diamond: It’s why they call it work. That’s why they pay you. Nick Hubert: They’d be pretty quick to point out that I’m the one of the partnership group that they’re going to have to chase for a smaller administrative item because, yeah, I honestly, just similarly speaking, don’t enjoy that. I want to go talk to clients. I want to go focus on building what we’re building. In finance speaks, it is a higher beta to just the all encompassing realities of running a business that is really hard to underscore without being in the seat. And yeah, there’s definitely 20 to 30% of that I would love to wave a magic wand and say, I don’t have to do anymore. Jason Diamond: Yeah, I appreciate that. Nick Hubert: You can’t have one without the other. It’s both sides. Jason Diamond: I think it’s getting easier and I think it’s getting more offloadable and some of it probably gets more… In some ways, more offloadable as you scale, but then you get a new set of problems, probably two, because you’re dealing with bigger… It’s a never ending. I think most business owners would agree with that. And you said it well, you take the good with the bad and overwhelmingly, most people we speak with in the independent space feel as you do, which is, are there things I would prefer to offload or that I would prefer not to do? Of course, but that’s almost just the price you pay for the freedom and for doing all the things you want to do. Two more questions that I want to be sure to ask about where this has been a great episode. One is AI. Need to know your thoughts. Is this coming for our jobs? Do you think your firm is positioned to capture either asset flows or also just to leverage this technology and use it to serve clients better? Just give me your thoughts. Nick Hubert: I think, in some sense, it would be irresponsible as people this early in our entrepreneurial journey and thinking about how do we optimize what we do for clients to not be engaging with AI in some way, shape or form, at least in an evaluative posture. So we are actively, in a bunch of different ways, whether it’s buy it off the shelf or build it, continuing to find ways to think about, not only how do we drive efficiency, because there’s an obvious surface level dynamic of if I can save time and spend more time with clients, that is a go to thing objectively. And there’s this deeper dynamic of if it can amplify what… Actually, back to your prior question, if it can amplify what I’m best at and enjoy and reduce what I don’t enjoy, that’s a massive win. And I think we’re on the surface of seeing that. That’s the opportunity we are motivated by that and pursuing that. And at the same time, I would say an operational principle that really is important to us, and you can almost call it a north star within the business is client security can never be put at risk for the sake of our own growth, our own efficiency, or anything else. There’s, I think, still a question mark as to how we think about trusting this. And so we are very cautious as we think about we will never try to move so quickly on any technology, whether it’s AI or otherwise that we risk our clients in some way, shape or form, because the reality is we are also in a context where AI is, when pulled, one of the least popular things happening in the world today for the average American. And so there’s no kudos here for being a leader. Jason Diamond: I totally agree. The first mover advantage here is slim to none. Nick Hubert: Yeah, you don’t want to be the one sticking your neck out on this in our industry. And yet there still objectively has a potential to be better for the clients. Navigating that I think is messy. Taylor Gentry: I think the only thing I’d add, which is pretty short, is the use of these tools has the ability to create a better deliverable for clients on a more consistent basis. And marrying that with exactly what Nick just outlined around the risk is really the magic piece here. And so I think, to the extent we can get it implemented effectively with the security, but also with, this is going to result in a lot better outcome for clients across the board, that’s a pretty attractive objective to go after and it’s pretty exciting to be in the industry with that now on the forefront in terms of ability to improve that experience over time. Jason Diamond: Yeah. No, that’s a good color to add. I want to end here with a potential HR violation, but you’ll forgive me. I’m not going to ask about age, but you are clearly both relatively young advisors. And this is a hot button issue in our industry, the idea that there are not a lot of talented, young next gen advisors at a time when a lot of gen one or older advisors are retiring out of the business. So what would you say… I think one of you made the comment earlier, it’s not necessarily the coolest industry to go into at 23 years old right out of school. I think more commonly people go into sales and trading, investment banking or some of the other finance verticals. What would you say to younger folks interested in wealth? And maybe I’d ask also, do you have any thoughts on how we solve this next gen talent crisis? And if you’re both secretly 90 years old, you can just do it. Taylor Gentry: You talking my internal age or my actual age? Jason Diamond: Why don’t you go first? Nick Hubert: Yeah, go ahead, Taylor. Taylor Gentry: I think there’s two threads here. The first is it’s not a sexy industry to go into and not as sexy as an investment banking, private equity shtick, if you will. I think from my perspective, it’s really important what you’re working on. The ability to be in a firm like what we are building with the diversity of work that is available is a little bit like the world’s your oyster and we’re designing it with that in mind. For Nick and I, the ability to work on many different situations throughout the day and throughout the week is actually why this business is so attractive and interesting and why we want to do it for 30 years. And so we’re building with that context. And so, in some ways, it’s almost like a plug for younger advisors, the ability to work in a firm like what we’re building where you’ve got this diversity of work that is not just trading stocks and bonds or just spreadsheeting or just financial planning. This is a much broader expression and experience than what I would call “traditional” wealth management. So I think that’s the key on that front. Then, on the talent development side of the equation, if you will, this AI thing is going to be a big question mark. And what I mean by that is there is significant training that will be required in, call it traditional wealth management or the firm we’re building with regard to folks’ ability to actually learn when you can plug it into AI and get an answer that you don’t have to critically question or think through. And so there’s going to be a significant learning curve for folks that we’re going to have to continue to train and educate on in order to produce talent that can be long-term sustainable and beneficial for clients more writ large. Jason Diamond: Nick. Nick Hubert: Well, first and foremost, we haven’t given our third partner enough here of time. I think we have a tremendous benefit of having a multi-generational team at the partnership level where he’s in his mid to late 50s and can bring that additional experience to bear and as is necessary, and as is important because investing is an experienced business and a lot of clients want that. And so the power of that matters. I think that actually speaks to firms being willing to think of partnership at that level that partnership is not reserved for just once you’ve been there for a long time. So I think it’s getting at like, how do you share ownership earlier, do it in a way that is actually giving people a stake in the outcome and allowing that elevation to happen. I think that’s number one. Number two, honestly, the existence of people like you and your team and that your family has built over the years, Jason, is awesome. And because of the ability for you to help people navigate and see how easy it is to actually run this business and build this business in some sense… And that’s in the broader spectrum of having seen. We work with so many different types of companies. We sometimes say our business is so much easier to run and it has come so far with technology and with people like you who are providers to us to allow it to be easier for us so to speak. That’s a big deal. I think that should be talked about more that there is a massive… What that allows is more time to, as Taylor mentioned, build what you actually want because you can outsource the compliance piece in a major way that allows you to not spend as much time on that as you used to. So I don’t think that gets talked about enough. And I think if you just zoom out and view this in the perspective of post-2020, there was this massive movement of entrepreneurship through acquisitions and people looking at this idea of how do I get the life I want by way of not having to be on a two-year clock to go to the next job to the next job. Have something that I can have a long-term impact on where I get to build something and have employees. This is the perfect space for that because it’s such an awesome business where you get to work so intimately with people and clients and their life outcomes. They’re, again, relatively speaking, easier businesses to run relative to what’s out there. I’m just baffled by the fact that it is not seen a larger wave of younger people coming out of these more “traditional” paths and seeing this as an awesome place when they’re willing to go buy an HVAC company. This is so much easier than that. So honestly, I think

Scotty G. & The Coach with Scott Garrard and Tim LaComb. Hour 1 Starting Lineup Kirby Smart on SEC potentially breaking away from SEC: 'I've been there' What You May Have Missed Hour 2 Eugene Rapay, Iowa State beat writer for Des Moines Register G, B, & U: Chiefs unveil renderings of planned $3B domed stadium in Kansas Boston Red Sox going for history with double header Hour 3 Coach Ron McBride discusses upcoming concert to raise money Coach Mac on Utes, BYU Utah State Hour 4 Coach Mac's fingerprint on college football in Utah Sports Roulette Final thoughts

Hour 2 of Scotty G. & The Coach with Scott Garrard and Tim LaComb. Eugene Rapay, Iowa State beat writer for Des Moines Register G, B, & U: Chiefs unveil renderings of planned $3B domed stadium in Kansas Boston Red Sox going for history with double header

────────────────────────────────────────[00:02:34]Federal Time Control Is Based on the Commerce Clause — the Same Justification Used for the Drug WarThey couldn't prohibit alcohol without a constitutional amendment but wave the commerce clause at everything else; the 10th Amendment was put there to close that loophole.────────────────────────────────────────[00:14:18]Gas Prices Back Above Four Dollars — White House Claims They'll Plummet Once Iran Is DegradedThey said the same thing months ago about Iran having no missiles left; Maria Bartiromo is still bewildered attacks keep happening after Trump declared victory.────────────────────────────────────────[00:19:29]CIA Director Woolsey Laughs on Fox About Rigging Foreign Elections — He Also Played the President in Dark WinterHe admits the CIA rigs elections "for a good cause"; he's the same man who played Trump's role in the pandemic rehearsal two decades before COVID.────────────────────────────────────────[00:43:44]CDC Paid Pfizer $1.2 Billion for More mRNA Shots — the Same Amount Trump Wants for His Entire AI Manhattan Project$600M per year; more goes to pediatric doses than adult; Knight: the same people targeting children with everything else have made kids the primary vaccine target.────────────────────────────────────────[00:57:30]Tamoxifen for Breast Cancer Can Cause Uterine Cancer — Fluoroquinolones Can Cause Permanent Nerve DamageNeither pharmacists nor physicians warn patients; when Lance was damaged by fluoroquinolones, a doctor in their Bible study didn't even know it carried a black box label.────────────────────────────────────────[01:20:47]Pentagon Lied — US Military Casualties in the Iran War Have Risen to Nearly 100Three earlier attacks were never disclosed; Iran's mid-flight speed-changing missiles defeat trajectory-based defense systems; Iran blinded the billion-dollar radar array first.────────────────────────────────────────[01:25:26]Israel Approved a Settlement That Would Destroy 11,000 Predominantly Christian Homes Near BethlehemThe mayor says Christians get under 50 liters of water daily while settlers get over 400; 80% of their land has been taken; he needs permission to visit the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.────────────────────────────────────────[01:38:43]Barry Goldwater in the 1970s: "When Israel Gives a Command, Congress Jumps" — He Called for Cutting All AidOn a Buchanan firing-line segment, every participant agreed Israel was running America; Goldwater said cut the $3B if necessary.────────────────────────────────────────[01:51:37]Houthis Now Threatening a Maritime Embargo on Saudi Arabia — the Last Relief Valve for Global Oil MarketsSaudis redirected millions of barrels through a Red Sea pipeline to bypass Hormuz; blocking it would compound the disruption; two more tankers exploded this week.────────────────────────────────────────[01:57:45]Flock Camera Network Expanded Nationwide Through Secret NDAs With Town CouncilsErin Brockovich found tech companies placed city council members under non-disclosure agreements across the country; residents woke up to surveillance construction with no warning and no vote. ──────────────────────────────────────── Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code “KNIGHT” For high quality made in America products go to HomeSteadProducts.shop and use promo code “Knight” for 10% off your purchases Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.com If you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-show Or you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

────────────────────────────────────────[00:02:34]Federal Time Control Is Based on the Commerce Clause — the Same Justification Used for the Drug WarThey couldn't prohibit alcohol without a constitutional amendment but wave the commerce clause at everything else; the 10th Amendment was put there to close that loophole.────────────────────────────────────────[00:14:18]Gas Prices Back Above Four Dollars — White House Claims They'll Plummet Once Iran Is DegradedThey said the same thing months ago about Iran having no missiles left; Maria Bartiromo is still bewildered attacks keep happening after Trump declared victory.────────────────────────────────────────[00:19:29]CIA Director Woolsey Laughs on Fox About Rigging Foreign Elections — He Also Played the President in Dark WinterHe admits the CIA rigs elections "for a good cause"; he's the same man who played Trump's role in the pandemic rehearsal two decades before COVID.────────────────────────────────────────[00:43:44]CDC Paid Pfizer $1.2 Billion for More mRNA Shots — the Same Amount Trump Wants for His Entire AI Manhattan Project$600M per year; more goes to pediatric doses than adult; Knight: the same people targeting children with everything else have made kids the primary vaccine target.────────────────────────────────────────[00:57:30]Tamoxifen for Breast Cancer Can Cause Uterine Cancer — Fluoroquinolones Can Cause Permanent Nerve DamageNeither pharmacists nor physicians warn patients; when Lance was damaged by fluoroquinolones, a doctor in their Bible study didn't even know it carried a black box label.────────────────────────────────────────[01:20:47]Pentagon Lied — US Military Casualties in the Iran War Have Risen to Nearly 100Three earlier attacks were never disclosed; Iran's mid-flight speed-changing missiles defeat trajectory-based defense systems; Iran blinded the billion-dollar radar array first.────────────────────────────────────────[01:25:26]Israel Approved a Settlement That Would Destroy 11,000 Predominantly Christian Homes Near BethlehemThe mayor says Christians get under 50 liters of water daily while settlers get over 400; 80% of their land has been taken; he needs permission to visit the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.────────────────────────────────────────[01:38:43]Barry Goldwater in the 1970s: "When Israel Gives a Command, Congress Jumps" — He Called for Cutting All AidOn a Buchanan firing-line segment, every participant agreed Israel was running America; Goldwater said cut the $3B if necessary.────────────────────────────────────────[01:51:37]Houthis Now Threatening a Maritime Embargo on Saudi Arabia — the Last Relief Valve for Global Oil MarketsSaudis redirected millions of barrels through a Red Sea pipeline to bypass Hormuz; blocking it would compound the disruption; two more tankers exploded this week.────────────────────────────────────────[01:57:45]Flock Camera Network Expanded Nationwide Through Secret NDAs With Town CouncilsErin Brockovich found tech companies placed city council members under non-disclosure agreements across the country; residents woke up to surveillance construction with no warning and no vote. ──────────────────────────────────────── Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code “KNIGHT” For high quality made in America products go to HomeSteadProducts.shop and use promo code “Knight” for 10% off your purchases Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.com If you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-show Or you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-real-david-knight-show--5282736/support.

Reading by David Anderson ---    2 Kings 18; 2 Chronicles 29-31; Psalm 48   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%2018%3B%202%20Chronicles%2029-31%3B%20Psalm%2048&version=ESV&interface=print

AlabamaPresident Trump says AL has big tax revenue to gain by allowing data centers to build in the stateAL House members from both parties vote for the Sunshine Protection ActSen. Tuberville says he will streamline state finances as AL governor and hire a lot more law enforcement officersSuperintendent Dr. Eric Mackey wants to reform state textbook committee18 people have qualified to run for District 3 of Montgomery City CouncilGovernor Ivey appoints Glenda Allred to head up Department of TourismNationalUS House strikes down amendment that would remove $3.3B in aid to IsraelVP JD Vance talks about Israel's propaganda campaign to disrupt the US Iran dealVP Vance also admits that Jeffrey Epstein was part of high levels of intelligence not a "hoax"Joe Kent talks about the Nuclear option implicated by Israel's prime minister

During the Asia-focused Episode 37 of Biotalk, Geoff Meyerson, CEO of Locust Walk, reviews key trends from the 2026 Q2 Report: Global Trends in Biopharma Transactions, across China, Japan, and Korea. China: Drove ~60% of first-half global licensing value, with the average deal nearing $3B and anchored by the $15B+ Bristol Myers Squibb–Hengrui collaboration. Venture financing posted a second straight billion-dollar-plus quarter ($1.2B) at a three-year high in deal volume. Japan: The Nikkei hit fresh all-time highs, but biotech lagged and the IPO window paused with no offerings. Venture financing fell sharply, though GNI Group's ~$278M acquisition of Ayumi Pharmaceutical provided a bright spot. Korea: The KOSPI soared on the semiconductor cycle while biotech stayed flat. Venture financing eased to $88M across six early-stage deals, but Korea anchored a rebound in rest-of-world licensing to ~$6.1B across seven transactions. Regional Takeaway: 2026 Q2 underscored Asia-Pacific's rising centrality: China's record out-licensing drove global deal value, Japan's markets hit highs even as biotech lagged, and Korea kept building as an innovation hub. Listen to the full episode, explore the complete 2026 Q2 report, and reach out to discuss what these trends mean for your strategy. 

During Episode 36 of Biotalk, Geoff Meyerson, CEO of Locust Walk, unpacks our 2026 Q2 Report: Global Trends in Biopharma Transactions, covering capital markets, strategic deals, and regional trends.  Market Overview: 2026 Q2 confirmed that 2025's momentum was durable: strategic activity stayed exceptionally strong, public markets kept reopening, and Europe's venture market rebounded sharply. China cemented its lead in global licensing while the U.S. dominated M&A and public markets. Strategic Transactions: Licensing held near record levels at ~$72B across 43 deals, with average deal size reaching a record ~$1.7B as pharma concentrated capital on fewer, earlier-stage assets. China drove ~60% of first-half value, anchored by the $15B+ Bristol Myers Squibb–Hengrui collaboration, even as upfronts fell to just ~5% of deal value. M&A hit a record ~$80B across 34 transactions, up 222% year-over-year, with U.S. sellers accounting for ~93% of value and oncology leading at ~40%. Capital Markets: U.S. markets kept reopening: seven IPOs raised ~$3.1B (a five-year high), venture reached ~$4.5B, and layoffs fell to a three-year low. Europe's venture market rebounded more than fivefold to ~$3.3B, led by Isomorphic Labs' $2.1B Series B. Outlook: Dealmaking is strong and markets are opening, but structures will keep favoring milestone-heavy economics. China's licensing dominance and U.S. leadership in M&A and financings will shape strategy through the rest of 2026.

Reading by Pastor Teressa Wiley ---    2 Chronicles 28; 2 Kings 16-17   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2028%3B%202%20Kings%2016-17&version=ESV&interface=print

Passing the torch to next-gen leaders requires more than paperwork; it demands deep cultural investment, transparent career pathing, and a training ground for collective decision-making. Today's guest highlights the profound personal and corporate transformations that happen when a firm commits to cultivating sustainable human capital. Christine DeMao is the COO of Gibson Capital, a $3B national RIA serving ultra-high-net-worth families. In this episode, she shares her 18-year journey from entry-level portfolio administrator to "boomerang" equity partner. In this episode, Christine explains how her firm uses a transparent "Path to Partnership" framework to map out character, cultural leadership, and business prerequisites early in a hire's tenure. She also opens up about her survival of a severe burnout health crisis, revealing how it fundamentally changed how she leads, leverages peer networks, and models work-life balance to protect her team. For show notes and more visit: https://www.kitces.com/498 

Brendan Wallace is the Founder, CEO & CIO of Fifth Wall, the largest investment firm focused on technology for the built environment, with ~$3B in capital, the firm is driving the growth of nearly 170 companies, backing category-defining PropTech leaders such as Opendoor, Procore, Blend, Hippo, and Bilt Rewards. It's supported by ~115 of the world's largest real estate owner-operators including CBRE, Hilton, Hines, Marriott, Public Storage, Related, and Starwood. Before Fifth Wall, Brendan was at Goldman Sachs and Blackstone, and he co-founded Identified (sold to Workday) and Cabify. In this episode of Summation, Brendan and Auren discuss:How remote work protected mediocrity for yearsThe data center land grab: powered land, 2037 grid connections, and bring-your-own-solarHow land is the most stable asset on earth and there's still no way to buy an index of itWhy "capital-intensive businesses are bad for venture" is no longer trueYou can find Auren Hoffman on X at @auren and Brendan Wallace on X at @BrendanFWallace

How do you know whether an AI agent is doing its job or quietly failing in production?Galileo is building the trust layer for AI. Its evaluation and observability platform is how enterprises measure whether the output of an LLM or an agent is good or bad.Galileo started before "LLM" was even a word. When Atin showed his prototype to Stanford's Chris Ré, his own first question was "what is a language model?" Today its customers include Reddit, Airbnb, P&G, Comcast, and six of the Fortune 50. Atin spent a decade in big tech before co-founding Galileo with Vikram Chatterji in early 2021. He worked on the knowledge graphs behind Siri at Apple, then became one of the leads and architects of Michelangelo, Uber's AI platform, that hosts thousands of models across pricing, ETA, and demand.That Uber experience taught him the lesson the whole company is built on; that in AI, observability and evaluation are the real bottleneck, and bad data is catastrophic.As ChatGPT turned every AI output into something a user sees directly, the measurement problem went from academic to mission-critical. So Atin made a contrarian bet: instead of using giant LLMs to judge other LLMs, Galileo built Luna, small 1-3B parameter models that run evals at breakthrough latencies of 100 milliseconds and below.If you are excited about how AI actually gets shipped, trusted, and controlled inside real enterprises, this episode is for you.00:00 - Trailer01:14 - From India to Apple, Uber, and Galileo01:34 - Where the name "Galileo" came from02:38 - Building Siri's early knowledge graphs at Apple03:29 - Becoming an architect of Uber's Michelangelo05:15 - Why every AI output is now mission-critical06:45 - How Atin and Vikram zeroed in on Galileo07:42 - "What is a language model?"09:38 - Building the world's first feature store at Uber11:27 - Language models and tokens, explained simply14:19 - Where the observability insight came from15:53 - Quantifying uncertainty and hallucinations16:36 - The first customers and first use case19:15 - How the product evolved from a data scientist tool23:18 - Why ChatGPT changed everything for Galileo23:57 - The enterprise AI adoption curve, 2021 to 202626:35 - Why they built the Luna model28:32 - Turning LLM "writers" into "calculators"28:51 - Attacking the latency problem31:48 - Luna: the modeling and infrastructure innovation33:09 - What evals are, and why they blew up34:26 - The case for small language models36:58 - What "general reasoning" really means40:39 - AI usage is exploding — and why that matters43:08 - Online vs offline: the "it worked on my machine" problem44:33 - The evals flywheel and evals-driven development46:56 - Galileo in a nutshell47:39 - What real agents in production look like today49:30 - A sales intelligence platform, powered by Galileo50:47 - The agent control product52:12 - Building GTM as a hardcore engineer from India54:43 - Garbage in, garbage out: nailing the ICP55:42 - How the pitch changed from customer 1 to 2057:27 - Why Atin switched from CTO to CPO-------------India's talent has built the world's tech—now it's time to lead it.This mission goes beyond startups. It's about shifting the center of gravity in global tech to include the brilliance rising from India.What is Neon Fund?We invest in seed and early-stage founders from India and the diaspora building world-class Enterprise AI companies. We bring capital, conviction, and a community that's done it before.Subscribe for real founder stories, investor perspectives, economist breakdowns, and a behind-the-scenes look at how we're doing it all at Neon.-------------Check us out on:Website: https://neon.fund/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theneonshoww/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/beneon/Twitter: https://x.com/TheNeonShowwConnect with Siddhartha on:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siddharthaahluwalia/Twitter: https://x.com/siddharthaa7-------------This video is for informational purposes only. The views expressed are those of the individuals quoted and do not constitute professional advice.Send us Fan Mail

Reading by Pastor Teressa Wiley ---   2 Kings 15; 2 Chronicles 26   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%2015%3B%202%20Chronicles%2026&version=ESV&interface=print

In this episode, I sit down with Marko, Co-founder of Tapir Protocol, to break down one of the most underappreciated risks in DeFi , depegging. We dig into how stablecoins and yield-bearing assets can lose their peg, what the real financial damage looks like (spoiler: up to $3.3 billion in losses between 2020 and 2025), and how Tapir is building a smarter, fully automatic, non-custodial solution to protect investors without sacrificing yield or capital efficiency. Marko walks me through how Tapir splits a single asset into a depeg-protected version and a yield-boosted version, letting the market price the risk rather than a committee deciding your claim. Whether you manage a treasury, run a fund, or just want safer DeFi yields, this conversation is packed with practical insight. DisclaimerNothing mentioned in this podcast is investment advice and please do your own research. It would mean a lot if you can leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share this podcast with a friend. Be a guest on the podcast or contact us - https://www.web3pod.xyz/--- CONNECT ---Tapir Protocol Website: https://tapir.money/ Marko on Twitter/X: https://x.com/markoinether Tapir X/twitter: https://x.com/Tapir_Protocol--- KEY POINTS WITH TIMESTAMPS ---• [00:00] Sam introduces Marko from Tapir Protocol and the focus on safer DeFi for institutional and retail investors• [01:19] Marko shares his background , from e-commerce to crypto in 2015, winning ETH Global hackathons in 2020 and 2021, building Marinate Finance (first liquid staking on Solana), and leading developer ecosystems at SSV Network• [04:15] Discussion on the explosive growth of stablecoins and why stablecoin yield products are the focus for Tapir• [07:02] Deep dive into what a depeg is and a live case study of APX USD trading at 80 cents on the dollar• [08:48] How Tapir splits one asset into three: a base version, a depeg-protected version, and a yield-boosted version , all 100% capital efficient• [13:02] Tapir's business model , a marketplace that earns a small fee on minting and redeeming assets• [13:59] Where Tapir is in its lifecycle , live on mainnet, running with internal funds, opening to launch partners and private mainnet users very soon• [16:05] Who Tapir is built for , DAO treasuries, fund managers, and any DeFi investor who understands that risk is real• [19:07] Sam and Marko discuss the drop in DeFi TVL from $180B to ~$69B and how AI-assisted bug finding is increasing vulnerability concerns• [21:23] Tapir has completed two independent audits and keeps its entire codebase under 1,000 lines of code to minimise attack surface• [24:36] Marko's take on algorithmic stablecoins , most fail because of positive feedback loops that collapse under stress• [26:22] Breakdown of Tapir's depeg analysis: long-term depeg losses estimated at $1.5B to $3.3B between 2020 and 2025• [30:46] How Tapir differentiates from Nexus Mutual, Y2K Finance, and other risk protection protocols , fully automatic resolution, no claims committees, and no capital inefficiency• [39:48] Will USD-denominated stablecoins keep dominating? Marko shares his view and gives a shoutout to Vifi (Virtual Finance) building for smaller currencies• [44:00] What's next for Tapir , opening to external users, launching higher-yield pools targeting ~15%, and looking for feedback from funds on which assets to list next

Australian Survivor's Final Season? Inside the LaPaglia Feud That Sank the Show | NRL's $5.3B Deal | Hey Hey Snubbed This week on Media McKnight: insiders reveal the behind-the-scenes tension between sacked Australian Survivor host Jonathan LaPaglia and production that led to the show's downfall, as it shoots what could be its final season in Malaysia. Plus — Peter V'landys locks in a record $5.3 billion NRL rights deal, but does it breach anti-siphoning laws? Daryl Somers responds to Hey Hey It's Saturday's shock TV Week snub. The National Press Club's embarrassing YouTube quality problem. And Channel 10 teaches staff to weave instead of chasing ratings.

Derrick Goold joins the show to explain why the Cardinals bumped back Michael McGreevy's start again and are having a bullpen game in game 1 of today's double header. Are the Cardinals handling Brycen Mautz development the right way? Are we starting to see the Cardinals pivot to Jose Fermin at 3B? Plus, should the Cardinals consider moving Ivan Herrera out of the 2 spot in the order?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

────────────────────────────────────────[00:11:48]1976 vs 2026: America Was 81% White and 90% Christian — Presbyterians Outnumbered WiccansSocialism polled in single digits; no one thought to ask. Now at 39%. Little Italy has become Little Mogadishu; Talavero Presbyterians have become pagans.────────────────────────────────────────[00:14:35]The Drug War Has No Constitutional Authority — Never Passed as an Amendment Like ProhibitionSessions was furious about marijuana legalization but couldn't touch it; there is no law, only bureaucratic rules, which is why civil asset forfeiture presumes guilt without trial.────────────────────────────────────────[00:22:26]AI Will Let Three Million Bureaucrats Do What FDR Needed an Army to DoFDR had one million documents on opponents requiring armies to process. AI does it instantly. That's the data center's real purpose.────────────────────────────────────────[00:34:48]Trump Bought Axon Stock Two Weeks Before ICE Awarded It a $220M ContractDisclosure runs 937 pages; Trump netted $1.4B in crypto in one year; Barron holds $2.3B in locked tokens. Knight: nearly tripled his net worth as president.────────────────────────────────────────[00:42:47]Trump's Meme Coin Left Nearly a Million Investors With a Combined $3.8B LossDown 97.6%; Trump crypto projects wiped out $51.4B across five coins; same structure as SBF, just bigger and with the presidency behind it.────────────────────────────────────────[00:50:29]Antwerp Diamond Industry Gifted Trump a Jewel-Encrusted Ring — Then Got Zero Tariffs on $2B in US SalesPresented on a star-spangled stage in Brussels days before the tariff removal; Knight: you can't get a better investment than a crooked politician.────────────────────────────────────────[01:16:53]Income Tax Started at 1% on the Wealthiest 1% — Khanna's Wealth Tax Starts at 2% on $50MAlready doubled before passage; Khanna's own fortune is in the exact irrevocable trusts he claims to want taxed; his 333-page disclosure is non-searchable.────────────────────────────────────────[01:40:45]Scott Ritter Debanked After 26 Years — Bank Refuses Explanation, Zionist Lobby Brags About ItCitizens Bank closed all accounts including his wife and daughters'; UN rapporteur Albanese had all accounts frozen, health insurance canceled, hotel reservations blocked.────────────────────────────────────────[01:53:47]SV40 Cancer Sequence in COVID Vaccines Was Not Accidental — Could Have Been AvoidedThey didn't need that plasmid; if SV40 sequences sit above an oncogene and integrate, they cause cancer; gene therapies were kept off market for decades for exactly this reason.────────────────────────────────────────[01:58:14]Man With Prostate Cancer Took Ivermectin During COVID Lockout — Five Years Later Still Cancer-FreeBy rescheduled surgery date, doctors found no cancer; PSA dropped from 11 to 3-4; his brother replicated the result in 2022; Knight: CIA documents show they knew and covered it up. ──────────────────────────────────────── Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code “KNIGHT” For high quality made in America products go to HomeSteadProducts.shop and use promo code “Knight” for 10% off your purchases Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.com If you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-show Or you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

────────────────────────────────────────[00:11:48]1976 vs 2026: America Was 81% White and 90% Christian — Presbyterians Outnumbered WiccansSocialism polled in single digits; no one thought to ask. Now at 39%. Little Italy has become Little Mogadishu; Talavero Presbyterians have become pagans.────────────────────────────────────────[00:14:35]The Drug War Has No Constitutional Authority — Never Passed as an Amendment Like ProhibitionSessions was furious about marijuana legalization but couldn't touch it; there is no law, only bureaucratic rules, which is why civil asset forfeiture presumes guilt without trial.────────────────────────────────────────[00:22:26]AI Will Let Three Million Bureaucrats Do What FDR Needed an Army to DoFDR had one million documents on opponents requiring armies to process. AI does it instantly. That's the data center's real purpose.────────────────────────────────────────[00:34:48]Trump Bought Axon Stock Two Weeks Before ICE Awarded It a $220M ContractDisclosure runs 937 pages; Trump netted $1.4B in crypto in one year; Barron holds $2.3B in locked tokens. Knight: nearly tripled his net worth as president.────────────────────────────────────────[00:42:47]Trump's Meme Coin Left Nearly a Million Investors With a Combined $3.8B LossDown 97.6%; Trump crypto projects wiped out $51.4B across five coins; same structure as SBF, just bigger and with the presidency behind it.────────────────────────────────────────[00:50:29]Antwerp Diamond Industry Gifted Trump a Jewel-Encrusted Ring — Then Got Zero Tariffs on $2B in US SalesPresented on a star-spangled stage in Brussels days before the tariff removal; Knight: you can't get a better investment than a crooked politician.────────────────────────────────────────[01:16:53]Income Tax Started at 1% on the Wealthiest 1% — Khanna's Wealth Tax Starts at 2% on $50MAlready doubled before passage; Khanna's own fortune is in the exact irrevocable trusts he claims to want taxed; his 333-page disclosure is non-searchable.────────────────────────────────────────[01:40:45]Scott Ritter Debanked After 26 Years — Bank Refuses Explanation, Zionist Lobby Brags About ItCitizens Bank closed all accounts including his wife and daughters'; UN rapporteur Albanese had all accounts frozen, health insurance canceled, hotel reservations blocked.────────────────────────────────────────[01:53:47]SV40 Cancer Sequence in COVID Vaccines Was Not Accidental — Could Have Been AvoidedThey didn't need that plasmid; if SV40 sequences sit above an oncogene and integrate, they cause cancer; gene therapies were kept off market for decades for exactly this reason.────────────────────────────────────────[01:58:14]Man With Prostate Cancer Took Ivermectin During COVID Lockout — Five Years Later Still Cancer-FreeBy rescheduled surgery date, doctors found no cancer; PSA dropped from 11 to 3-4; his brother replicated the result in 2022; Knight: CIA documents show they knew and covered it up. ──────────────────────────────────────── Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code “KNIGHT” For high quality made in America products go to HomeSteadProducts.shop and use promo code “Knight” for 10% off your purchases Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.com If you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-show Or you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-real-david-knight-show--5282736/support.

To preview the 2026 MLB Draft, we held our final staff draft of the draft season, picking the top 75 picks. Even more than the order, this gives us a chance to talk about the vast majority of players who will go in the top two rounds on Saturday in the MLB Draft.(02:30) Roch Cholowsky, SS(03:15) Vahn Lackey, C(05:15) Grady Emerson, SS(07:35) Jackson Flora, RHP(09:30) Eric Booth, Jr., OF(11:00) Tyler Bell, SS(12:50) Jacob Lombard, SS(15:10) Drew Burress, OF(17:30) Derek Curiel, OF(20:45) Jared Grindlinger, OF(22:20) Ace Reese, 3B(24:00) Gio Rojas, LHP(25:25) AJ Gracia, OF(28:30) Liam Peterson, RHP(31:40) Ryder Helfrick, C(32:50) Trevor Condon, OF(35:15) Chris Hacopian, 2B(37:40) Cameron Flukey, RHP(39:30) Tyler Spangler, SS(40:55) Tegan Kuhns, RHP(42:00) Sawyer Strosnider, OF(43:10) Taylor Rabe, RHP(45:15) Mason Edwards, LHP(46:45) Zion Rose, OF(48:05) Aiden Ruiz, SS(49:25) Jarren Advincula, 2B(50:45) Justin Lebron, SS(52:25) Logan Reddemann, RHP(54:10) Cole Prosek, C/2B(55:35) Hunter Dietz, LHP(57:15) Picks 31-35(1:00:25) Picks 36-40(1:04:00) Picks 41-45(1:06:55) Picks 46-50(1:09:15) Picks 51-55(1:13:00) Picks 56-60(1:16:00) Picks 61-65(1:19:00) Picks 66-70(1:22:30) Picks 71-75STRIDE (K12)See how K12 Powered Schools can help unlock your child's full potential. Enroll online today at K12.com/foulOur Sponsors:* Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/ba2022 for a great deal: https://www.quince.com* Check out Shopify and use my code shopify.com/baseballamerica for a great deal: https://www.shopify.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Reading by Deborah Volosin ---   2 Kings 14; 2 Chronicles 25    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%2014%3B%202%20Chronicles%2025&version=ESV&interface=print

This episode featured @nigeriasbest and @phoenix_agenda joined by @Tex_the_LawThey discussed:IMF recent report on Nigeria stating expenditure of about 2% of GDP not captured in FG BudgetAllegedly fictitious agency received N1.3B in allocation in FG Budget. Court ruling on NDC and INEC matter

– The Cardinals look like themselves again and it's no surprise which aspect is leading the way.– We're getting the full FIFA experience. – Offer sheets are back, baby!– Questions and Answers– The Blues might not be done with the offseason.– The next week is hugely important for the Cardinals' plans.– What's the plan at 3B?– Junk Drawer– How has this offseason changed Robert Thomas' outlook for 2026?– In or Out– Was JJ Wetherholt an All Star game snub?– BK & Ferrario RewindSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

– The Blues might not be done with the offseason. – The next week is hugely important for the Cardinals' plans. – What's the plan at 3B?– Junk DrawerSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Reading by Deborah Volosin ---   2 Kings 12-13; 2 Chronicles 24    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%2012-13%3B%202%20Chronicles%2024&version=ESV&interface=print

JJ and Carlos get out of the first two rounds and talk about players they are interested in deeper on the draft board. —Time Stamps:(0:00) Intro and opening banter(06:20) Jason DeCaro, RHP, North Carolina(13:00) Camden Johnson, 3B, Oklahoma(18:20) Elliot Lascelles, SS, Upper Canada College HS, Toronto, Ont.(22:30) Peyton Bonds, OF, Rutgers(27:00) Jaxon Willits, SS, Oklahoma(32:00) Andruw Giles, OF, Basic HS, Henderson, Nev.(37:30) Jake Lamdin, SS, Duke(40:00) Gage Peterson, RHP, Appalachian State—SEAT GEEKUse our code for 10% off your next order of MLB tickets on SeatGeek*: seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/TERRITORY10 Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discountOur Sponsors:* Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/ba2022 for a great deal: https://www.quince.com* Check out Shopify and use my code shopify.com/baseballamerica for a great deal: https://www.shopify.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On this episode of The Real Estate & More Show, host Michael Hatfield sits down with Vinney "Mr. Smile" Chopra — real estate syndicator, fund manager, and five-time Amazon bestselling author — to talk about his book Positivity Brings Profitability.   Vinney arrived in America with $7 in his pocket and a suitcase. Today he's raised $239 million as a fund manager across hospitality, senior living, and multifamily real estate. Michael and Vinney dig into why Vinney believes positivity isn't just a "feel good" concept — it's a core business strategy that drives investor trust, team performance, and deal outcomes.   Vinney also walks Michael through a 107-unit Knoxville, TN case study — a mismanaged property his team turned around, surviving a mortgage payment that jumped from $27K to $72K/month, locking in a 5.56% rate, and selling for $17.4M after buying it for $12.5M in just two and a half years.   In this conversation with Michael Hatfield, Vinney covers: ✅ Going from selling Bibles and encyclopedias to managing a $1.3B portfolio ✅ Why he pivoted from multifamily into hospitality and senior living ("apartments on steroids") ✅ The goal-setting method that separates people who achieve goals from those who just write them down ✅ How positivity directly impacts investor relationships and deal-making ✅ Why humility and a "serving attitude" matter more than ego in syndication     Timestamps: 00:00 Michael Hatfield introduces Vinney Chopra 01:00 Arriving in America with $7 03:00 Why Vinney wrote Positivity Brings Profitability 07:00 What positivity really means in business 10:00 Can positivity be learned? 13:00 Goal setting and achievement 17:00 Why relationships are everything 20:00 Handling market fluctuations and pivoting 23:00 Case study: 107-unit Knoxville turnaround 27:00 Responding to critics of "positivity" 28:00 Vinney's final advice for the audience     ----  

For America's 250th, we whipped up a show that highlights America's competitive advantages with three stories:#1. Reese's Peanut Butter Cup: How a Frogsaleseman created the country's best-selling candy.#2. Super Soaker: Why our legal system was the co-founder of summer's most-popular toy.#3. Collectible State Quarters: The US Mint made $3B on the most profitable coin in history.Plus, the USA is really the world's biggest startup… and the Declaration of Independence was our IPO.$HSY $HAS $USDGrab your Tickets to the IPO Tour: Our In-Person OfferingSan Francisco 9/23: https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/1C0064AFB5F688BDBoston 10/14: https://tickets.citywinery.com/event/tboy-the-ipo-tour-in-person-offering-8cdhupSeattle 11/4 (21+): https://www.axs.com/events/1446394/the-best-one-yet-tickets Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Reading by Pastor Teressa Wiley ---   1 Kings 22; 2 Chronicles 18   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%2022%3B%202%20Chronicles%2018&version=ESV&interface=print

Send us Fan MailIn a historic development, Dominion drops its $1.3B lawsuit against Mike Lindell. Mike returns to The Remarkable People Podcast to expose deep national NGO corruption, reveal his plan for Minnesota, and share how truth is finally winning. 

Reading by Karen Griffin ---   1 Kings 16; 2 Chronicles 17   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%2016%3B%202%20Chronicles%2017&version=ESV&interface=print

In this episode, we discuss the recent moves in Bitcoin and Strategy and look at the challenges SpaceX may be facing. We cover reports that Groq has secured $650M and examine what some are calling a memory squeeze, which we believe may be influencing parts of the tech sector and the broader AI market. We also touch on reports of Reflection AI's agreement, described as a deal worth up to $6.3B, intended to scale open models, as well as OpenAI's debut of "Jalapeño," reported to be its first custom inference chip. Finally, we review the dips in gold, silver, and Bitcoin, and the potential unwinding of the "debasement trade." Remember to Stay Current! To learn more, visit us on the web at https://www.morgancreekcap.com/morgan-creek-digital/. To speak to a team member or sign up for additional content, please email mcdigital@morgancreekcap.com Legal Disclaimer This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice or a solicitation for the sale of any security, advisory, or other service. Investments related to the themes and ideas discussed may be owned by funds managed by the host and podcast guests. Any conflicts mentioned by the host are subject to change. Listeners should consult their personal financial advisors before making any investment decisions.

Reading by Pastor Teressa Wiley ---   1 Kings 15; 2 Chronicles 13-16    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%2015%3B%202%20Chronicles%2013-16&version=ESV&interface=print

AlabamaA settlement of $300K is coming to AL after fraud takedown effort by DOJCongressman Moore supports President's ultimatum on SAVE America ActStatus hearing cancelled re: lawsuit challenging Tuberville's residency in ALMontgomery city council votes to remove member who lives outside of districtAL leaders laud the lives saved since 2022 SCOTUS ruling that overturned Roe v WadeBirmingham Zoo to offer free admission to veterans and active military on July 4thNationalPresident Trump rips into Senate leaders for not passing SAVE America ActDOJ indicts over 400 people for defrauding federal health programs of $6.5BDominion Voting Systems drop $1.3B defamation lawsuit against Mike Lindell of "My Pillow"Trump spoke at National Mall to kickoff July 4th celebrations for America's 250th Birthday

1. HEART OF THE MATTER 1A. Record-Breaking Missionary Numbers — Pres. Oaks at New Mission Leader Seminar At the 2026 Seminar for New Mission Leaders (June 18–21, Provo MTC), President Dallin H. Oaks announced that the Church will soon have the largest number of full-time missionaries in its history, surpassing the current 87,000+ serving worldwide. The surge is driven by the first wave of 18-year-old sister missionaries (following the November policy change lowering the minimum age from 19) and the addition of 55 new missions in July, bringing the global total to 506. President Oaks outlined three characteristics defining the restored Church: (1) the fulness of doctrine (including eternal marriage between a man and a woman); (2) priesthood authority and keys; and (3) a unique testimony of Christ grounded in modern revelation and the First Vision. Sister Kristin Oaks also spoke, sharing six core truths missionaries teach. Source: Church Newsroom, June 20, 2026 Note: Strong potential for discussion on what ‘only true and living church’ means in a pluralistic world — Richie angle? 1B. New Hymn ‘Welcome Home’ — The Story Behind It Composer Andrea Brett explains how a 2017 encounter with Demetrius O’Neal — a recent convert serving as a greeter at a Spokane ward on a snowy Sunday morning — inspired her hymn ‘Welcome Home,’ now published in the new Hymns for Home and Church. Brett submitted 10 pieces when the global hymnbook was announced in 2018; this was the only one she’d written before the call. She received confirmation of its selection in February 2025, then had a full-circle moment when she and O’Neal sat near each other at the April 2025 General Conference as the Tabernacle Choir performed it. O’Neal’s name appears in the hymn’s tune name as a tribute. The hymn is now translated and sung globally. Source: Church Newsroom / Richie’s document 1C. Family History Records Are a ‘Sacred Thread’ — Elder Bragg at International Archivists Congress Elder Mark A. Bragg, General Authority Seventy and executive director of the Church’s Family History Department and FamilySearch International, was a keynote speaker at the III Congress of Archivists: Digital Archive Expo (DA-EXPO), held June 8–12 in Astana, Kazakhstan. He called family history records ‘the thin but sacred thread’ tying people together across generations, and argued that records are ‘in a very real sense, witnesses.’ Elder Bragg framed the digital revolution in genealogy in moral terms: for most of history, access to records was shaped by ‘proximity, resources and specialized knowledge,’ but today a record created in one place can be preserved in another, indexed in a third, and discovered by someone on the other side of the world. ‘The reach is astonishing. The speed is breathtaking. The possibilities are almost beyond measure.’ He also said that ‘access is an act of kindness’ — records only fulfill their divine purpose when they are found, understood, and used. His core message: preserving memory is an act of hope. ‘It says that the past is not dead to us and that the future deserves more than fragments.’ Source: Church News, June 17, 2026 Angle: Great ‘quiet but meaningful’ story — LDS family history going global and leveling the playing field for genealogy worldwide. 1D. America Gives — All 50 States Receive Food Donations The Church completed a milestone in its ‘America Gives’ initiative by delivering a shipping container of food to Hilo, Hawaii — marking all 50 states reached. The initiative aims to deliver 250 truckloads of food nationwide in 2026 to celebrate the U.S. 250th anniversary. In Hawaii, the food went to The Food Basket, distributed to 10 local nonprofits. Notably, 42% of residents on the island of Hawaii face food insecurity — the state’s highest rate. Rosie Rios, chair of America 250 and former U.S. Treasurer, praised the milestone. Local Methodist pastor Ted Lesnett said recipients will know ‘when they were hungry, someone cared.’ Source: Church Newsroom / Richie’s document 1E. Church Donates $250,000 NZD to Christchurch Anglican Cathedral Rebuild The Church announced a NZ$250,000 donation (June 19, 2026) toward the restoration of Christchurch’s iconic Anglican Cathedral — damaged in the February 2011 earthquake. Elder Peter F. Meurs (Pacific Area President) and Anglican Bishop Peter Carrell presided at the announcement. The donation comes as the project faces a $45M funding shortfall and an overall $219M budget. The Christchurch City Council has offered $15M contingent on government and Anglican Church matches. Notably, a New Zealand Buddhist community made a similar gift in 2023 — the LDS donation continues a cross-faith pattern of support for the heritage project. Source: Richie’s document Angle: Rare and heartwarming — LDS funds an Anglican cathedral. Good interfaith story. 1F. Central America Humanitarian Blitz — 5 Projects, 500,000+ People In late May and early June 2026, the Church announced five humanitarian projects across Central America (with Sister J. Anette Dennis, First Counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency, representing the Church). Projects include: the ‘Windows of Light’ eyecare program in El Salvador (350,000+ screenings to date); safe water access for 250,000+ in Belize, Guatemala, Honduras, and Nicaragua (with UNICEF); nearly 750 computers/tablets donated to 66 educational institutions in Guatemala; and medical equipment for the ‘La Mascota’ children’s hospital in Nicaragua. Source: Church Newsroom, June 2026 2. FAITH & DOCTRINE 2A. President Christofferson in Philadelphia & Toronto A busy week of ministry for President D. Todd Christofferson: He offered the invocation at Becket’s Canterbury Medal Gala in Philadelphia (multifaith event celebrating religious liberty), alongside Elder Gary E. Stevenson and others. The group also visited the Liberty Bell and Independence Hall — fitting, ahead of America’s 250th. Christofferson reflected on D&C 101 and the Constitution’s purpose to protect ‘all flesh.’ From Philadelphia, he and Sister Christofferson traveled to Toronto, meeting 250+ missionaries in the Canada Toronto Mission weeks before it divides into three missions (Toronto West, Toronto East, and Montreal). He also spoke to hundreds of LDS youth, with one — Amelia Fischer — saying ‘no amount of words can describe how I felt tonight.’ Source: Richie’s document / Church Newsroom 2B. BYU Scholar Study: Religion Adds 7.6 Years to Life The BYU Wheatley Institute is releasing three reports analyzing 3,000 of the most scientifically rigorous studies (culled from 60,000+ papers by Duke University) on religion and health. Key findings: 33/34 studies show improved social health; 10/11 show improved mental health; 7/8 show improved physical health. Regular worshippers live an average of 7.6 years longer (up to 13.7 years longer for African Americans). A ‘landmark finding’: 256 studies show religion prevents/aids recovery from substance abuse (vs. 6 showing negative impact). Author Loren Marks recommends public health frameworks treat religious involvement like exercise recommendations. Source: Richie’s document 2C. Elder Soares Testifies in the Philippines Elder Ulisses Soares completed a two-week ministry in the Philippines (mid-May 2026), meeting with 600+ young single adults in Cebu, 450+ in Quezon City, and 340+ missionaries at the Philippines MTC. His recurring message: ‘His arms are extended to all of us.’ The Philippines has more than 905,000 Latter-day Saints — the Church’s fourth-largest national membership. Two new temples were also dedicated in the Philippines this month: the Davao Philippines Temple (Elder Renlund, May 3) and the Bacolod Philippines Temple (Elder Andersen, May 31). Source: Church Newsroom, June 17, 2026 3. CULTURE & CURIOSITIES 3A. LDS Author in Everyman’s Library — A First BYU biology and bioethics professor Steven L. Peck has reportedly become the first Latter-day Saint author included in the prestigious Everyman’s Library series (publishing canonical English fiction since 1906). His 2012 novella A Short Stay in Hell — a philosophical horror story about a Mormon man condemned to an afterlife library containing every possible book — went viral on BookTok and found a new audience. A literature historian noted: ‘No Mormon or Mormon-adjacent writer that I know of has ever been featured in this prestigious series.’ The Salt Lake Tribune covered the story, noting the irony that a theological horror story marks one of the most significant moments in LDS literary history. Source: Salt Lake Tribune / Richie’s document 3B. The Sasine Family — 40 Countries Before Age 1 Keith and Chelsea Sasine, an LDS couple stationed in Germany (Keith is an Army oral surgeon), made history in November 2025 by taking their youngest daughter Mia to 40 countries before her first birthday (March–November 2025), using a Honda Odyssey for European road trips. The family of six (including Izzy, 10; Abby, 9; and John, 4) attends local wards wherever they travel — a faith anchor the couple says strengthened their testimony and taught their kids the importance of the Sabbath globally. They’re planning a move to Colorado Springs in 2026. Source: Richie’s document 3C. Jen Affleck (Secret Lives of Mormon Wives) Expecting Baby #4 Jen Affleck, 27-year-old star of The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives and Dancing with the Stars alum, announced June 18 that she and husband Zac Affleck are expecting their fourth child. She shared the news on Instagram captioned ‘Chapter Four.

In this episode, Dmitri and Eleanor walk through eight revenue multipliers reshaping the music business in 2026, including catalog valuation, revenue recovery, music licensing, and more.  This conversation sets up the theme for this year's Music Tectonics conference: "Rising Tide: Grow the Music, Grow the Value," exploring why music has massive cultural influence but a music industry that still lags behind gaming and sports in overall economic size. Dmitri and Eleanor dig into who this impacts across the music industry, from music tech founders and investors to record labels, publishers, managers, and the song catalog investment world. The conversation also covers the future of streaming revenue growth internationally, the unresolved infrastructure problems around music rights and royalty data, and why platforms like TikTok and Instagram are still not paying enough in music licensing revenue.  This episode sets the stage for the Music Tectonics Conference 2026, happening October 27-29 in Santa Monica, California, where the music industry and music technology ecosystem come together around innovation, investment, and growing the value of music. Get your tickets now at- https://www.musictectonics.com/  The news US music publishing revenues hit $7.3B in 2025, NMPA reveals at Annual Meeting honoring P!nk, Julian Bunetta and Harvey Mason jr. The music industry is closing in on a billion global subscribers – with Spotify out in front Four music datasets holding millions of tracks are being shared among AI developers, The Atlantic reports   The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. Visit musictectonics.com to find shownotes and a transcript for this episode, and find us on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. Let us know what you think!    Get Dmitri's Rock Paper Scanner newsletter.

SpaceX priced the biggest IPO ever at $135/share, raising $75B and debuting at $1.77T. ShinyHunters exploited an unpatched Oracle PeopleSoft flaw hitting 100+ organizations, Mistral seeks €3B at €20B, MrBeast hit 500M subscribers, and SBF lost his appeal. SpaceX raises $75B in the biggest-ever IPO, pricing 555.6M shares at $135 each, giving it a market value of $1.77T (Bloomberg) Founders Fund's ~3% SpaceX stake is worth $50B+, Sequoia's ~1.5% is worth $20B+, and a16z will see its biggest return ever at $10B+ (Bloomberg) Some investors question SpaceX's valuation, citing its $4.3B loss on $4.7B in revenue in Q1, as well as concerns over space data centers (NYT) Oracle warns customers of a critical PeopleSoft flaw after ShinyHunters claimed breaches of 100+ organizations using PeopleSoft; Oracle has not issued a patch (TechCrunch) Sources: French startup Mistral AI is in talks to raise ~€3B at a ~€20B valuation; it was last valued at €11.7B during a funding round in September 2025 (Bloomberg) MrBeast hits 500M subscribers on YouTube, a record for the platform (The Wrap) Sam Bankman-Fried loses his bid to overturn his fraud conviction and 25-year prison sentence over the collapse of FTX (Reuters) Longreads As companies are hit by rising AI costs, they are increasingly using tools that tap cheaper models, including some from China, putting price pressure on OpenAI and Anthropic (WSJ) Sixteen economists weigh in on what AI will mean for the US economy, workers, and workplaces; only two expect AI to actually create more jobs (WSJ) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices