Podcast appearances and mentions of jonathan what

Show NotesAt the beginning of the episode Jonathan talks about watching Hamilton, which was recently released on Disney+. Here is a link to the streaming service and the filmed version of the original broadway.This episode delves into the design sprint that Two Story Robot led Clinnect through, we talk about the ups and downs and how valuable it was. Check out the blog post about design sprints and the design sprint we did with Clinnect.Find Us OnlineAngela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.caJonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.comCreditsProduced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela HapkeMusic by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)TranscriptJonathan:  Can you do this? I can't do it just a second. I can get it.[00:00:04] Angela: sounded like a drip.[00:00:09]Jonathan: Yeah. It's, I'm not very, I'm not very good at.[00:00:12]Intro[00:00:12] Hi, I'm Jonathan Bowers.[00:00:17] Angela: And I'm Angela Hapke and you're listening to Fixing Faxes.[00:00:21]Jonathan: And I watched Hamilton this[00:00:24] Angela: was it?[00:00:26] Jonathan: so good.[00:00:27] Angela: watched it yet.[00:00:28] Jonathan: so good. It's it's so we've read a little bit about shaming for people who don't like it. Um, which I think is a little unfair. I mean, I enjoyed it a lot cause I like, I liked the style of music and it's really neat to see that in a musical also, we would never go see Hamilton.[00:00:49] Like, there's just no opportunity for us to go to Chicago or New York or London,[00:00:53] Angela: And especially right now.[00:00:55] Jonathan: Yeah. So it was really cool to watch. We had to watch it over two nights. Um, just cause it's, it's quite long, it's like two hours and 40 minutes. Um, but I didn't know. I didn't know that it was pretty much all rap and R and B and um, yeah, like it was really,[00:01:09] it was really cool.[00:01:10] Angela: well, I didn't know that either Brad will love it. I'm[00:01:14] Jonathan: It's so great. It's I really enjoyed it. It's very fast. It's hard to follow in ways because it's one it's like, it's just very quick. So you gotta, like, you have to be paying attention and it's a lot of American history, which I'm not, I don't, I don't know. I don't have any of the background knowledge for anyways[00:01:32] um, but it was still, it was, it was really cool. I really, I really enjoyed it.[00:01:35] Angela: Okay. I'm definitely going to check it out.[00:01:37]Jonathan:  one of the YouTube videos I watched said that if, if it was paced the same as a, a regular Broadway musical, it would have taken six hours because of how many words they cram into two hours and 40 minutes.[00:01:51] Yeah. It's very[00:01:53] Angela: Wow.[00:01:54] That's very cool.[00:01:55]We Launched The Podcast[00:01:55] Jonathan: We launched the podcast too, that has come out. Um, I've listened to it. I've listened to it a bunch of times. Cause I edited it edited. I listened to it a bunch of times because I edited it and then I listened to it when it came out and I've since listened to episode five, which we recorded last week with our new mics.[00:02:16] And I hate, I hate the first four episodes. I don't like that. Uh, I don't like the way they[00:02:22] Angela: of course not. Well, of course not,[00:02:23] Jonathan: but we have four, I think four five star reviews. Yeah. There's well, one from your husband.[00:02:32] Angela: I was like beyond my husband.[00:02:34] Jonathan: Yeah, I think there's, I think there's some other ones, because if I look at the average yeah, we've got an average of four stars and then that one, one star review that they didn't leave.[00:02:45] Yeah. They didn't leave a comment, your husbands and then some other five star reviews. Um, but have you heard any, have you got any, any feedback from people.[00:02:51] Angela: Um, yeah, so I, I. Put it on my Facebook, like, just like, Hey, we're we're doing this. Wow. I, so heartwarmed by everybody. And people I haven't talked to in years, like sometimes decades that, um, have gone, like have saw the post gone and listened to it and then come back to the post to write me something.[00:03:19] Jonathan: That's[00:03:19] Angela: so lovely and[00:03:22] Jonathan: creeping on your Facebook a little bit. I was a little jealous of how many people were commenting on your, on your post about it. Cause no, one's no, one's commented on mine at all. Uh, that's fine.[00:03:34] Angela: it is like, honestly, there's a lot of my mom's friends that are going.[00:03:38] Jonathan: Oh,[00:03:41] Angela: Yay. Thank you. Friends of mum.[00:03:44] Jonathan: that's great. Everyone's everyone's dream is for their, uh, for their friend's daughter to become a podcast host. I think[00:03:52] Angela: Yeah, right.[00:03:53] Jonathan: it's just a proud, just a moment of pride. That's so great. I love it.[00:03:57] Angela: It's been really cool. And then like just the engagement factor around that has been really, really fun. Um, so it's, I mean, mostly the people that are listening, um, as of today are really just friends and family.[00:04:10] Jonathan: Yeah. It's not a lot of, not a huge audience at the[00:04:13] moment. Um,[00:04:15] Angela: so, thank you. If you're listening to this and you've made it to episode, whatever this is six[00:04:20] Jonathan: Episode six, if you're just joining us though now, because he couldn't deal with the poor audio quality. Uh, we get it.[00:04:30] Angela: I'm glad you rejoined us. Ah, yes. So we we've launched the podcast. We've got some reviews, some listens more, probably more downloads than I thought we would have.[00:04:43] Jonathan: Um,[00:04:45] Angela: Or did you, or[00:04:46] Jonathan: I was kind of hoping for a bit more. We have a, I went in this morning, we have a hundred total downloads across both the team, the teaser, and the first episode, I think there's, uh, like 30 or 40 downloads for episode two. And, um, yes, 60 or 70 downloads for the teaser. Um, but it's, it's interesting.[00:05:04] The pattern is different. The, the pattern is more stable for episode two, whereas a big spike on day one for the, for the teaser, and then it quickly, quickly dropped off. So, but it's only been out a couple of days, so we'll see. We'll see what today[00:05:18] Angela: And it's so much easier to listen to a three minute a teaser than it is to commit to a half an hour.[00:05:24]Design SprintsJonathan: uh, so we were thinking about talking today about, um, some design stuff.[00:05:29]Angela:  before we started working with you, I had no idea what the design sprint was and I think that's, uh, it's super fun thing that we did. And I think we should talk about what that was and how we did it and why maybe what it was like from your perspective, my perspective and things like that.[00:05:51]do you want to talk about what the design sprint is to get us started?[00:05:57] Jonathan: Yeah. So a design well a sprint. There's this, there's this term that comes from agile product development and agile methods in, uh, software, but also other aspects of, of building things and this idea of a sprint. And it's this like short time window, sometimes two weeks, sometimes a week, sometimes a month.[00:06:19] It sort of depends on the project where you focus on a thing. And I don't love the term sprint. I think it, I think it connotes this idea that you are like constantly running the entire time. And then in, in the agile world, you sort of divide up your, your iteration cycles into sprints And so sprint one for focus on essence sprint two, we're focused on this and I've talked with people who kind of get the wrong idea and they think like, Oh, like, why isn't everyone just sprinting the entire time? All the time and I think, well, that's not sustainable. You can't, you can't, sprint every single day.[00:06:54]even sprinters, don't train by sprinting all the time.[00:06:56] Angela: exactly. Yeah, no, you're[00:06:58] Jonathan: So, um, anyway, so it's, it's a way of dividing up time. Um, and you kind of call it a sprint, but it's meant to be really focused on. You know, one thing or if there's a goal in mind. And so a design sprint, which I do like the term sprint for a design sprint, because it is it's short.[00:07:16]Um, it's a, it's a predefined time window. We don't do it like over and over and over again. We do one of them, maybe two of them. So our, our design sprint is. Basically three mornings. So usually Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday morning. It's very, very intense. It's very structured. We have a script that we follow and it leads us through a bunch of exercises. Um, some of which is just to like get the creative juices flowing. So we've got some sketching exercises that we do. Um, this fun thing called crazy eights, where you take a piece of paper and fold it in[00:07:53] Angela: I remember that.[00:07:54] Jonathan: Until you get eight pages and then every minute you have to draw something new on each one of those panels. Um, we don't share that stuff, but it's, uh, it's just to like get the creative juices flowing, but the goal is to, um, bring together, you know, the I'm the product expert. So yourself, um, the people that would be responsible for building, building the product, uh, like, uh, our team on Two Story Robot and it cramp them in together into this quote unquote room. Cause we don't do it in a room. We do it remotely and forces, through very short time windows, to like be creative and come up with things. And it's a really good way of getting information exchange happening, back and forth. Um, so we, we can quickly learn a lot about the domain in three days, we've become, um, we don't, we don't become like your level of understanding at it, but we get really close.[00:08:49] And then as an. And as an output to this entire process, as we collect collaboratively design, a bunch of features and screens that we think are the most priority, highest priority things to work on. Um, and then, and then at the end, we have a design that we can kind of start implementing with, which is, which is really cool.[00:09:07] Angela: From a Clinnect perspective. Um, when we started out with the design sprint, um, what we had was simply an idea. We knew the features that we wanted to add in, but we had no idea what this would, this product would look like. Um, Jackie and I had kind of sketched out some ideas cause we're super visual.[00:09:29] The both of us, um, just to kind of get on paper, what we thought we might want to see. And then we headed into this design sprint, which I knew nothing about. I w uh, I was like, okay. Yeah. And I think you sent me an email and you're like, Hey, do you want to try this? I'm like, sure. Let's, let's try this. And it was like, you know, three full mornings.[00:09:52] And, and so from what I would say is from where we were on the Monday at say eight or nine o'clock to where we got by end of day, Wednesday was mindblowing. The amount of work that we were able to push out in that sprint and get our heads around was unreal. It was super high value from our perspective.[00:10:21] So that was really, really cool.[00:10:24] Jonathan: Yeah, we've had, we've had that feedback, uh, cause we've run them a few times now and the feedback has always been yeah um, surprise at the end of how, how much, how much value came out of it and just how much understanding and how much tangible, like tangible design came out of it. I mean, it doesn't come out with fully fleshed out really high quality designs they're, they're pretty rough, but the, the, um, like they're really good bones on the skeleton, and then we can, then we can take that and start adding, adding all the flesh to it and it's um, but it's yeah, it's in three days, um, a lot gets done[00:11:01] in three days.[00:11:02] Angela: So when coming into it in February, we had like ideas and little sketches and it was cute to nice. And then by the end, I was like, Oh my gosh, we have all of this, which helped us push for the next thing too.[00:11:16] Because we were able to do that so quickly. And then we're kind of a bit on a roll that I was like, okay, like, let's get this going. So that outside of just getting the tangible designs and things like that done, it also helped just fuel the, the builds for the, the product too, which I found super valuable also.[00:11:34] Jonathan: I mean, another thing that it helps do is it, it really ruthlessly prioritizes what needs to get done because you can't, you can't, he can't address everything in three mornings. So there's a bunch of things that we really want it to do. But, um, you need to focus on the things that are most important or have maybe the most uncertainty.[00:11:52] Angela: I think, and I think the other thing I wanted to mention too, is it is. It's exhausting. Like, I was really tired after all that. Love it. I mean, I also being like the quote unquote customer in this, um, my brain was tapped a lot, like, okay, Angela, what do you think about this? Does this make sense? That, and so it was making like really, really quick decisions, which for anybody.[00:12:19] Can be really exhausting. And so I know, I remember after the three days, it was really, really tiring, um, highly valuable, but it goes back to what you said about a sprint. Shouldn't be like, you know, it's not sustainable. And it was like, mentally, it wasn't sustainable for me at all.[00:12:37] Jonathan: It's exhausting. It's exhausting. There, it's a lot of demand on you as the, as the expert. Um, because we, you have to download a bunch of information. You have to think and respond quickly to questions because you kind of facing a squad of everyone else on the, on the sprint. I think there was six of[00:12:56] Angela: Yes, there was[00:12:57] Jonathan: Um, and so everyone has questions. You say something and it triggers thoughts in other people's minds. And so they have questions now. So you've got to respond to that. So there's a lot on you. Um, there's a lot on, uh, so myself and my Maja a facilitated it it's, it's really it's. It has to be a tag team in order to facilitate the thing.[00:13:15]Um, cause there's a lot of this, a lot of stuff happening all at once. One of us is writing notes. One of us is sort of leading and facilitating the discussion and leading through some of the exercises. We, you know, it's a bit of a production too, is we've got music that we're playing and,[00:13:28]Angela: Oh my goodness. The music.[00:13:30]There was so many, there was so much commentary on the music. So Jonathan decided he was going to be the DJ. I don't know. And, uh, there was, you got so much flack for the, for the music that you were choosing.[00:13:44] I think it was mostly from Chris and I, but.[00:13:46] Jonathan: Yeah, we have some playlists that we use and I think one of them doesn't resonate very well with, uh, with everyone.[00:13:53] Angela: I was one of those people. It didn't resonate. Well,[00:13:55] Jonathan: It's it, but interestingly, so it's, that process has spurred me to, um, change, the experience I'm trying to create in all of my Zoom calls now. So having, having facilitated a few, a few design sprints, um, and getting some really good feedback about the experience, obviously I'm not going to put that much energy into , every zoom call that I'm on, but I've got a new camera now.[00:14:18] I've got a good sound. I've got to figure it out how I can, how I can quickly add music to the call. Um, so, um, I'm not a DJ by any means. No, I just like go hit, play on Spotify, but sometimes I can, I can find a song that actually reflects the meeting well, and then I play it. I play it out. I play us out and I've gotten some good feedback on that.[00:14:38]Uh, it's been fun.[00:14:40] Angela: Is that going to be like a job in the future[00:14:42] Jonathan: I think it could be a job now, I think.[00:14:45] Angela: But yeah, what I mean, I guess future being now, because we're all can, you know, meeting via virtually is that that becomes a new, a new skillset.[00:14:57] Jonathan: Yeah, at our all hands meetings, we have like a question that we ask. And it's just a fun question to just think about and discuss and just create something else to talk about. Um, One of them was what, what's a thing you'd like to learn. And mine, I decided was improv. Yeah, because I mean, I had just finished watching a, that long format improv on Netflix, uh Middleditch and Schwartz, which I highly recommend. It's really funny. I've always enjoyed improv. And so I was reflecting a little bit on what the design sprint is and sort of running, running, engaging meetings.[00:15:34] And I was like, this is it's improv. Like, how can I, how can I be, how can I, how could I improve that? I could be an improvization person, an improv comedian, or[00:15:45] like an[00:15:45] Angela: improv artist.[00:15:47] Jonathan: An improv artist. Right. I could be an improv artist. I haven't taken any efforts to like go and do that because I don't have any time, but it's something that I think about a lot.[00:15:55] And I w I really wish there was a maybe like a podcast I could listen to, to like, help me become a better at improv.[00:16:04] Angela: I love it. So anyone listening that has suggestions on how Jonathan can become an improv artist, please message us.[00:16:15] Jonathan: I think it would be a cool skill to have. It would be great for interviews on the podcast for, yeah. Anyways, I I'm, I'm excited about the idea of it. I don't know what I'm going to find time to go and do it.[00:16:26] Angela: Oh my goodness. I love that.[00:16:30] Jonathan: the other thing that I wanted to like share about the design sprint process that we have is that it, it kind of only works remotely.[00:16:38] Angela: You know what I would agree at first I was very, and this is pre COVID, so we could have met in a room and thought nothing of it. And we all. Mostly, except for Maja who was in Poland at the time, we all actually worked in the same building. So it would have been very easy to do this. And, and, um, the old school part of me that like, you know, has spent years in healthcare where meetings are, um, at first it was a bit like, Oh, No.[00:17:07] I want to, like, let's all get in a room and let's do this together. And you're like, no Angela, this is all virtual. And at first I was like a little bit disappointed, but then once we got into it, I probably didn't tell you that at the time. Um, but once we got into it, I totally got why we were doing it virtually and it made a lot of sense and it worked out really well.[00:17:34] Jonathan: Yeah, there's, there's so many things that you can do when you don't have the constraints of a physical world. Um, we use, we use some tools that allow us to very, very rapidly work on the same thing at the same time. And it gets really messy. Like we do this, um, we do this organization process where you're. You know, you're putting virtual sticky notes on a whiteboard and then somebody grabs it and moves it on you to somewhere else. And you're like, okay, whatever. And it's really fast. And so we can take seven minutes and, and categorize and organize a hundred sticky[00:18:08] notes and, and surface some meaning out of that.[00:18:11] Angela: And there was, um, there was a lot of getting used to that.[00:18:17] Jonathan: Oh, yeah. Yeah. The tool, the tool is we're used to the tool, um, others, uh, when people use it for the first time, uh, it, it, it can be a bit overwhelming and it[00:18:27] Angela: It was a bit. Yeah, but it was quick to learn. So it was overwhelming at first, but quick to learn, but I think it was more like my, my own control issues where I'm like, Nope, I put that sticky note there. Why is it moving? Somebody is moving it. And, but as soon as I kind of lost that need for understanding everything, because you can't during this design sprint, especially as a newcomer to it, as soon as I kind of lost that need to.[00:18:56] Understand and control, then it worked really well, but it was hard for me at first, but it didn't take, like, I like you adapt really quickly. I guess.[00:19:07] Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a, it's a really messy. It's a very messy process. It makes people feel uncomfortable, especially. I think, I think you sort of hinted that you were a bit of a controlling, um,[00:19:22] Angela: Oh,[00:19:22] Jonathan: freak. You're just someone who likes to have control over things. And I remember thinking, I don't think she's going to like this very much.[00:19:32] Um, but like it's, it has to work this way. Like you can't control it because it's so it's, it's quite organic. Um, and it, it needs to be[00:19:39] Angela: And I think it's that, um, you know, we're talking a lot about this these days about leaning into uncomfortableness and that's where, um, beautiful, messy, creative things come from. And that's exactly what this design sprint was at first. It was, it was, it was a bit. Um, chaotic messy, but from it, if you just allow yourself to be uncomfortable and okay with being uncomfortable in that moment, you can create some really beautiful things.[00:20:06] And, um, that's where I think we were able to get. And I was probably one of the bigger barriers at the beginning to doing that. If I'm going to be perfectly honest with myself, but it was good.[00:20:20] Yeah.[00:20:20] highly recommended design sprint. Um, like I say, didn't know what it was, went into it unknowing definitely, you know, was, was pushing back at first and then so proud of what we came up with out of it.[00:20:35] Jonathan: Would you say it was fun,[00:20:36] Angela: Yeah. some of the best things are, you know, like they just. They tire you right out, but there's, there's fun. Um, yes, it was fun.[00:20:45] Jonathan: Yeah, I really enjoy them. They're they're so exhausting, but there's so much fun.[00:20:51]Angela: Um, so our software, uh, developer, Jackie, that, uh, works at Clinnect. Um, I remember at first she had a real hard time with it because she is the kind of person that loves things to be beautiful and nice and organized. And you can see it from, you know, she's a photographer and her pictures are gorgeous. Um, you should see your notebook.[00:21:16] It's.[00:21:16] Jonathan: Our notebook is[00:21:17] Angela: It's amazing.[00:21:19] And so then when you're doing this design sprint, like, and you talked about this, like the eight square, is that, what am I calling it? The crazy eights or something? Yep. Uh, Oh, Jackie hated that. I remember. She was so frustrated because you have to draw something in a minute and then you flip it over and draw something else in a minute and you kind of keep iterating on what you had drawn last and you get, you know, and it's, it's just, as Jonathan said, an exercise to start opening up your mind.[00:21:46] Well, I remember the grumbles so funny. Yeah. But because she's also this person who thinks about things and it's very particular. I also feel like she, once we kinda zoned in on what we were, what we were looking at a little bit more, she was able to take it to like a next level, because then she was able to focus in on those details and things like that.[00:22:10] And that's why it's so great to have a super diverse team when doing it and allow everybody to go through their grumbles and bumps and. It'll come out the other side better for it. . I had actually liked to do it again with something[00:22:28] Jonathan: What we had planned on, we have plans to do another one. Um, we had discussed it.[00:22:33] Angela: Oh, right. I forgot about it.[00:22:38] Jonathan: I don't remember what about, but we had identified something that we thought needed some additional,[00:22:43] Angela: Well, it's probably our premium features. No.[00:22:47] Jonathan: and I thought there was something else.[00:22:49]We are always looking for other opportunities to do design sprints, because they are so effective. They're really hard to describe though. Like they're almost impossible to describe to someone cause we say like, Oh, it's really, it's really weird.[00:23:02] It's really uncomfortable. It's very messy. And it's, it works really well.[00:23:07] Angela: Yeah. And people like myself are like, no, thank you. But I trusted you. That's actually, maybe the, maybe the piece that we haven't talked about is that trust piece is I trusted you to guide us through that. And I think you need to find a team that you, that you ha you have to have that trust there, or else that does not work.[00:23:28] I don't know. Have you ever had a, have you ever had a client where. It's like it went a little bit sideways.[00:23:35] Oh, that's nice. You must be so trustworthy. Everybody's just like, okay, Jonathan.[00:23:41] Jonathan: it's, it's always produced very good results and, and it's always, it's always. Kind of the same experience. So maybe that's just, we've like we have really great customers, um, which, which is true, but, uh, yeah, I don't know how much of it is because it just works or that we have customers that are sort of willing to work, willing to take that chance a little bit.[00:24:02] Angela: Probably a mix of all of it. Um, what we'll likely do in the show notes is link to maybe a little bit more information about design sprints.[00:24:12] Jonathan: Yeah, so we're doing, um, we're going to do a blog post on design sprints that this can, this can relate to, . Anyway, so, so hopefully we get to do another design sprint, um, on Clinnect, on whatever, whatever feature we think[00:24:24] Angela: Oh Lord.[00:24:25] Jonathan: What else is, what else is coming up? What else is next?[00:24:28] Angela: what's coming up. Uh,[00:24:32] Jonathan: Hopefully, well, hopefully, hopefully on the next recording, we're going to have Chris come in guest and explain to us how all this encryption stuff[00:24:44] Angela: Yes. Chris is wildly smart.[00:24:49] Jonathan: I'm very excited to hear you describe it as well, because I've, I've given you a, um, a metaphor or an analogy or a way of describing it, which you took, and I think you change to give to someone else. So I'm, I'm curious to hear all of it, all of it, and then do it in front of Chris for him to shake his head at and say no, no,[00:25:11] Angela: you have it all wrong. Yeah. That is a hundred percent what is going to happen? And I'm[00:25:16] Jonathan: Yeah. So you've been listening to Fixing Faxes, building a digital health startup. I'm Jonathan Bowers. My cohost is Angela Hapke. Music by Andrew Codeman. Follow us on Twitter @fixingfaxes. You can find us wherever you listen to podcasts. And please do us a favor. Tell a friend. Thanks for listening.[00:25:33]Camping with the Family[00:25:33] Angela: I'm taking my children camping in our new trailer for the first[00:25:38] Jonathan: You[00:25:39] Angela: weekend we bought a popup trailer, like[00:25:42] a, a tent trailer.[00:25:44] Jonathan: yeah.[00:25:45] Can you fit a family of four in that?[00:25:48] Angela: yes, apparently we bought a very large one. Yeah. I didn't have a clue. We really, we didn't know what we were doing when we bought it, but we bought it and our children are so happy.[00:26:01] Um, but they're so excited to take it. So we're going to take it four on Friday night for the first time. Wish us luck.[00:26:07] Jonathan: Uh, good luck.[00:26:11]

Show NotesIn the intro Jonathan discusses the fall detection used in his Apple watch, if you are interested in learning more about this feature or how to turn it on then check out this link:https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/watch/apd34c409704/watchosSince recording this episode Angela has actually achieved the 10,000 step mark many times according to her Suunto 3 watch. She is still trying to get evening walks in.Fact CheckSurprisingly Angela does not spew random statistics this episode, so there was not much to fact check.Find Us OnlineAngela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.caJonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.comCreditsProduced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela HapkeMusic by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)Transcript[00:00:00] Angela: This is fun.[00:00:03] Jonathan: That's how you that's. I think that's, um, like journalist broadcaster thing. Like you just put your face right in the mic and just click your tongue.[00:00:14] Angela: You have no idea.[00:00:16]Jonathan: I honestly have no idea.[00:00:17] Angela: Yeah, I know. You can tell[00:00:20]Introduction[00:00:20]Jonathan: Hi, I'm Jonathan Bowers. I am a software developer and uh, Oh, I, uh, I fell down the stairs.[00:00:28]I had Zach in my hand and it scared me[00:00:30] Angela: He's okay?[00:00:31] Jonathan: He's okay. Everyone's okay. I have a little bit of rug burn on my, uh, on my elbow, but I'm fine. Just a little bit of a bruised ego. And I don't understand how I've slipped down the stairs. Like I'm pretty cautious, not cautious, but like I don't, I don't fall down the stairs ever.[00:00:46] Like the first time I've done that.[00:00:48] Angela: That's why it's called an accident.[00:00:50] Jonathan: Yeah, I guess. So anyways, I was impressed with the Apple Watch's ability to detect the fall and it suggested that I call 911[00:00:57] Angela: I love that. why don't we have Apple watches on all our old people?[00:01:01] Jonathan: I don't know.[00:01:02] Super cool.[00:01:03] Angela: That is cool.[00:01:05]So my name is Angela Hapke, and I am the CEO of Central Referral Solutions and speaking about smartwatches, I got Suunto Watch for Mother's Day and I am yet to hit 10,000 steps a day[00:01:24]You have to go for walks in the evening. You have to deliberately go and get steps.[00:01:29] Jonathan, I do. I go for freaking walks in the evening. It just, it adds about like three or 4,000 steps, but I'm just still not getting enough.[00:01:44]Jonathan:  I had one day when I was legitimately less than 500 steps for the entire day. I think I was sick.[00:01:53] Angela: I was going to say, were you in bed all day?[00:01:55] Jonathan: I was in bed all day.[00:01:56] Angela: Yeah. That's why he was sick.[00:01:59] Jonathan: I thought, for sure, just casual, like just ambient walking. I would have picked up some extras more than 500 steps, but Nope.[00:02:08] Angela: that's. That's amazing.[00:02:11] Jonathan: Ambient walking.[00:02:12] Angela: Ambient walking.[00:02:14]Clinnect is launched[00:02:14] Jonathan: Okay so we've launched Clinnect uh how do you spell how do you spell that how do you spell Clinnect ?[00:02:21] Angela: C L I nope[00:02:25] Jonathan: That's right.[00:02:26] Angela: it is sorry. I'm like my brain somewhere else. And I thought, uh,[00:02:31] C L I N N E C T[00:02:35] Jonathan: Clinnect it's like clinic and connect smushed together.[00:02:39] Angela: You got it.[00:02:40]We launched it last week.[00:02:43] Jonathan: Not a full launch, a soft launch.[00:02:46] Angela: Sure a product like ours, I'm not sure launches largely easily. It's it is more of a, it is more of an iterative launch. So we just, we brought on her first umm users on Friday so many, many years ago, I I've, I've dreamed about this.[00:03:09] Like I have dreamed about this for many years. I've dreamt about being the CEO of a startup, launching a product. And when I dreamed about this, the images that were in my mind were. We, you know, we would, I would be in an office with a team and there would be high fives that day champagne, and we would be celebrating.[00:03:40] And I launched on Friday sitting alone in my basement.[00:03:49] And there was nobody, but we need high five because way too early in the day to drink shopping by myself. So,[00:04:00] Jonathan: That sounds like that makes me sad.[00:04:04] Angela: but it's actually, so. It didn't make me sad because at the end of the day is still like, the dream is still there. Like the idea, we still did something incredible and amazing, but I think it's also indicative of many things I've been reflecting on recently. Around this, this dream and what I thought that it looked like 10 years ago and what it actually looks like in reality now is I always thought I would have time to lean into these amazing pieces of the business, uh, and take my time and be thoughtful and meaningful around all these decisions and put effort and just all this additional time.[00:04:54] Leading up to the launch. I had my kids home 24 seven. There was no additional extra time or energy because I was exhausted to lean into these things. Like I was sure I was going to have this beautiful marketing website up to showcase the product and launch it. And I thought, Oh, I'm going to be so meaningful.[00:05:20] And the people that I reach out to and talk about this with, and it just, there was, there's just no time. And, and COVID like, talk about a time to launch a product. This is crazy. And so all those things. And so as soon as I let go of that ridiculous dream that I had 10 years ago and went well, that was nice.[00:05:42] That was cute. That you had that dream and that was a fun thing to focus on and it allowed you to get here. Reality looks very different and that's okay because at the end of the day, we're still doing what we said that we would do. And it's still important.[00:05:57]What does Clinnect Actually Do?[00:05:57]Jonathan: What's the thing that we're doing. What does Clinnect do? It's in healthcare, but what is ultimately boil it down to a couple of sentences or a short paragraph? What is Clinnect?[00:06:12]Angela:  Clinnect was built out of a need for patient referrals from your family doctor through to a specialist to be tracked and confirmed in a way that they hadn't been before.[00:06:31] Because far too often, we rely on fax machines to do those referrals, sending and receiving. And we figured that we could create, uh, an easy, simple solution that was far more secure that allowed, um, that patient referral to be sent to the most appropriate provider. Oh, while in the background building meaningful data for your community and in demand around a specific specialties and things like that. But at it's very bare bones. It is a very simple, easy way to send a referral from a primary care provider through to a specialist for patients needing to see any type of specialist that is not sent through a fax machine.[00:07:31] Jonathan: And so how so? How has the lunch gone? So it's, it's a soft, I wouldn't even say it's a soft launch. It's a private launch.[00:07:39] Angela: Yeah, actually, that's a good way of putting it because we only allowed the users on that we wanted to start with.[00:07:46] Jonathan: But we did launch like we did, we do have, we do have users in they're using, are they using the software or have they just created accounts?[00:07:56] Angela: They've just created accounts and are taking a poke around right now. Today, I'm connecting with, uh, the first person that will be creating referrals to be sent through and received. So that's exciting.[00:08:11] Jonathan: That is exciting. And how has it gone? so? It wasn't as, uh, as exciting or as, high fives and Champaign, as you might've thought we didn't have a, we didn't have a chocolate fountain.[00:08:22] Angela: I can do those are so weird and gross.[00:08:26] Jonathan: Especially now, could you imagine having a chocolate fountain.[00:08:29] Angela: Everybody there would be caution tape around it now.[00:08:33] Because it was a private launch, it went, it went pretty good. We were able to handle the users. There was a couple of bugs that came up, but we were able to, and your team was able to address them pretty quickly. We did have a couple, uh, things happen that we thought. Well, that probably won't happen. And we kind of pushed in design and development till later that we've now had to say, Oh, wait a minute.[00:09:00] We got to put a priority around that, which has been, which was just kind of humbling in the hilarious,[00:09:07] Jonathan: It's always, it always goes that way. We plan for the things we think, okay, these are the errors that users are going to encounter. Like, these are the kinds of things that users are gonna stumble on. So we need to fix those things and then they never do. But then the things that we think, Oh, no, one's going to do this, and if they do, there's only 10 users so far, so it's not going to be that bad. But then the first user, the first time hits the one thing or the two things that we deliberately pushed to the bottom of the pile.[00:09:33]Launching with a Few Small Bugs[00:09:33] Angela: That's exactly what happened. It was our first user and she, she, she, uh, yeah, she did something that we were like, it probably won't happen. Oops. It did.[00:09:45] We can, I mean, we can talk about what that was like. We.[00:09:48] can we,[00:09:49] okay.[00:09:49] Jonathan: sure. I mean, there's nothing as long as we're not disclosing who it is. I think that's[00:09:53] Angela: so our first user, we thought, well, they won't go into the same web page and register themselves more than once. So, and correct, correct my language around this, Jonathan, but, uh, what we, what we did, what we didn't do was like a system check to see if that user already exists in the system, because we just thought they would go in once register once and then, and then just log in after that was the very first use that we got on registered herself four[00:10:24] Jonathan: Oh, I know. And it's an easy, it's such an easy thing. It's such an easy thing to fix. I don't even sure why we didn't fix it to be honest.[00:10:33] Angela: Well, isn't that the hilarious part is, yeah. Like as soon as I talked to your team about it, they were like, Oh, okay. So let's just fix that. And then it was fixed right away. But our poor first user was like, I don't see everything that I'm supposed to be seeing. And I'm like, huh, well, let's take a look into that.[00:10:51] And then we discovered it was like, well, she's actually registered four times.[00:10:54] Yeah, so that was kind of a funny one. And then we, and then, yeah, we had some funny things around, um, case sensitivity for emails and which is one of those things that we probably should have.[00:11:07] Jonathan: Yup. Yup. Often all things that should have been done, because they're really easy to do.[00:11:14] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. So.[00:11:16] Jonathan: But, it's, it's a little bit of, uh, of competing priorities. Like there's, there's so much other things to do that are just so important, right? Like we need to have encryption working. We need to have all of these features that the people need to be able to use.[00:11:32] Um, and so. These things are up there. Easy. We can just do that last minute, but then we never get to them and they creep their way in. And then we think, okay, well we didn't fix those things. It's live. No one's going to hit those. We'll fix them in a bit. Um, but[00:11:47] Angela: they did my first users, the, Oh well, and I think, and I am not sure how to, how to say this, but Clinnect is an easy platform to use. What we've created is a digital health application that is so easily, integrated into their, their systems.[00:12:11] Like you literally take two minutes to sign up, whereas like most doctor's offices in MOAs are used to software that takes like massive, like many days to onboard. Like, so for example, like your, your EMR or your emergency, your electronic medical records, there's a team that comes out.[00:12:34] Jonathan: Oh, wow.[00:12:35] Angela: I mean, okay. Maybe, maybe just one person, but there's a person that comes out that is like an implementation specialist usually.[00:12:43] And they will onboard your office, like in person. And they'll be there testing things for usually like a day or two.[00:12:52] Jonathan: Oh, wow.[00:12:53] Angela: Yeah. And I mean, EMR is, are big and heavy and, um, but any kind of software that I think about that, you know, a doctor's office uses is typically pretty robust with a complicated ish sign-on process or registration process.[00:13:16] So it's a lot more handholding Clinnect is like, I sent you a link you signed on in two minutes and then you can send a referral. Like it's that simple. And because it's that simple, I think we were just like, well, it's that simple? what I love about clinic is, um, I'm able to say because literally just two minutes to sign on and you can send a referral it's that easy. And that is a very cool value that we offer.[00:13:50] Jonathan: It's the, the, the value is that it takes two minutes to sign off.[00:13:56]Angela: No, it's, it's a, what is it? A lack of barrier, I guess.[00:14:03] Jonathan: so, okay. So we've launched, we've launched, we've had a few users sign up, um, some, some, uh, a few, a few bumps, a few stumbling blocks. and then soon I think today, some of the users are going to start. You're going to walk a user through sending, sending the first referral[00:14:22] Angela: Yeah. I'm hoping it's today, if not tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. It's exciting. I think,[00:14:30]Jonathan: Why is it exciting? I mean, I get, I get why it's exciting for you,[00:14:33] Angela: yeah,[00:14:34] Jonathan: it's, it's, it's the dream realized, right? There's no champagne, there's no fountain of chocolate, but there's still, there's still software that's out there that a real human customer is using. There is, is going to use today. Um, why is that exciting beyond, beyond just the fact that that, you know, exists.[00:14:57] Angela: So if I take off my founder hat and I put on my like Joe public hat, is that what you[00:15:01]Digital Health is Pretty Boring[00:15:01] Jonathan: I guess, so, I mean, why, like, I mean, there's, there's all sorts of reasons why you got into this and wanted to build this. Um, and it's. It's not finished, but, but something is built and that's exciting for sure. That's, that's always exciting when it's full of anxiety of, you know, things going wrong and things have gone wrong, uh, small bumps, but, but it works, um, it's out there.[00:15:25] So, but what's the, like, what's the, what's the exciting bit now? What are you excited about now? And maybe this is from the point of view of the public.[00:15:34][00:15:34] Angela: It's so hard to answer. I think because healthcare isn't, especially digital health stuff really isn't that exciting.[00:15:46] Um, typically healthcare, digital health applications, aren't super exciting. They're not really sexy stuff that comes out and it's not, like rock your world stuff. It's usually fixing something, a systemic issue that we've had for a long time in a really obvious way. And I think that's what this is. The fact that, you know, as a, as a patient, I would go into my doctor and have a, have a referral faxed over to my specialist's office and never hear back as to where I was on a wait list if they ever received it.[00:16:26] Or if, if, if, if all of these variables Mmm we're fixing all of those, it seems obvious. And I've had this interaction with people. When I tell them about connecting what we're doing, the reaction I get almost all the time is, well, why doesn't this exist yet? So maybe it's not that exciting for the general public.[00:16:54] And rather it is more well about time[00:16:59] Cause I'm not sure that I could. I am not sure. I could go out and explain to people what Clinnect is and they'd be like, yes, that is so exciting. It is not exciting for people. It is more of a statement of, well, that just makes a lot of sense. Why the hell haven't we been doing this for a really long time?[00:17:19]Jonathan: It's a strange, um, that's a strange feeling. I experienced that every now and again, where I think back, like, how do I, how do I excite, um, 16 year old me about the kinds of things that I do now. And I don't, I'm not sure that I could, like, I'm not sure that I could say, Oh, you're going to be spending hours.[00:17:37] Um, leading a team that is building software to replace fax machines and it's going to be so awesome. 16 year old me is that sounds so[00:17:49] Angela: So boring.[00:17:50] Jonathan: boring, but it's, it is exciting because, every day, people are doing, you know, doing their job, trying to go about their day, get, get the things that they need to get done, done, and are stuck using whatever antiquated system or antiquated piece of software that they've inherited through, you know, whatever chain of decision making that led to that. And they're stuck with it and they're just trying to do the best they can. And I'm excited that, even if there's a little bit of joy, even if it's just once, even if it's just, Oh, this is, nice. And then that's it. But now, now they just go about their job.[00:18:29] Um, much, much more efficiently being able to focus on the things that matter. Um, you know, not spending their time sorting piles of paper.[00:18:39] Angela: The way that I describe it sometimes too, which some helps people a little bit. And let's be very clear that some of these features do not exist yet in Clinnect, but they are in the pipeline. Um, imagine going to your family physician with an issue he or she says, I think you need to see a specialist. And upon walking out of that office, you receive a text or an email that says.[00:19:07] Your referral to specialist so, and so has been received. The estimated waiting time is four weeks. We will be in touch with you. Um, and just, just that, just that simple, at least I know I am being taken care of because right now, when we walk out of our physician's offices with our kids that have just been referred to a specialist, We have no idea if that referral was ever received or not.[00:19:41] And I know a lot of people are terrified to pick up the phone to find out for fear of bothering someone or maybe being put at the bottom of an arbitrary list for bothering someone. Um, but this is like real time trackable referrals. Which yes, we maybe should have been doing for a long time, but haven't, so now, now it's time to, uh, but that's usually when people go, Oh, that would be really cool.[00:20:10] So maybe, so maybe if we could just insight that little bit of joy once in a while, where you literally get the text that says, Hey, and maybe even further to that, it's now been accepted by specialists. So, and so here it, you know, or even better click here to book an appointment, Things like that. Like, this is not, this is not undoable.[00:20:35] This is totally doable. I guess what I'm saying.[00:20:38] Jonathan: and it's not, um, it's not rocket surgery.[00:20:42]Angela: It's not, it really isn't, but we've been very complacent with, um, the lack of technology and in the healthcare space for a very long time. And that's what that's. I mean, I go back to why I'm excited about this is at the end of the day, we are, we are providing a service that didn't, it didn't exist in this way before I finally get to make an impact for far too long when I was in the system, um, I would be.[00:21:21] You know, writing, writing decision briefs, um, that were really exciting ideas and projects, and that would just get shelved for years. And there was no sense of change. There was no sense of making that impact. I finally decided that I couldn't sit around and do that anymore.[00:21:45] And when a group of surgeons came to me and said, we have this really cool idea, I saw a much bigger application for it. Whereas they were just like, this is how it all started. General surgeons and Kamloops just, just wanted one place where all their referrals could come into and they could pull it. This is how this all started.[00:22:06] That's all they wanted. Could you help us do that? Yeah, I can definitely help you do that. And my guess is you're not the only ones that need that.[00:22:13]What is Coming Next with Clinnect?[00:22:13]Jonathan:  What are the next steps? Like, what are we, what are we working on next? So you're going to get some referrals happening. What else is happening?[00:22:19] Angela: So we're going to test the system for referrals just to make sure that everything works. Um, and then we start onboarding, referring providers. So meaning your, primary care providers that refer patients through, that's going to be, that's going to be a, Oh, that's a long process. Um, but we're gonna focus on, um, kind of blasting to them that we're up for functional.[00:22:48] We're going, please sign up once again. Low barrier to use two minute sign up and you can send your first referral. That's the exciting part. And then we have other specialty groups that are interested in joining two already, which is awesome. So I'm actually thinking we might even have to queue them, which I.[00:23:12] Never thought that we were actually going to have to have a queue. I always thought we would be like going to them and saying, okay, I think you guys need to get on and then like trying to sell it. But I think we already have . Enough that are interested and it's just, it's the snowball effect. As soon as you get a few on, then everybody sees, how about hopefully how well it's working and we've designed it to scale.[00:23:35]Because this is based off of a workflow that we've been doing with general surgery. That was not scalable. So we learned, I think we've learned a ton there. And so that's exciting to see.[00:23:50]Growing the Waitlist[00:23:50]Jonathan:  I'm looking forward to seeing that waitlist grow[00:23:52] Angela: be careful about calling it a weightless grow because we're in surgery.[00:23:55] Jonathan: Oh, right. Yeah, no, we don't want our waitlist to grow. we have this really long wait list to get into our software, but it, the goal of our software is to[00:24:03] Angela: Does it reduce the wait list?[00:24:05]Jonathan:  Can, can Clinnect Clinnect itself?[00:24:08] Can we use Clinnect to manage our own wait list?[00:24:12] Angela: Oh, no maybe. In a way that's the way it works though.[00:24:21] Jonathan: So, okay. Yeah. So our wait list is growing. Your wait-lists are shrinking.

Show NotesOur first full episode of "Fixing Faxes".There is a backlog of surgeries due to COVID-19, how is Canada going to deal with those. How do referrals work in the first place and how will Clinnect help? Do we need faxes?Fact ChecksIn the opening Angela mentions being at home with her children for 73 days, that was incorrect it was actually 74 days according to her calendar.Here is the CMAJ article that Angela refers to.The "large" number Angela refers to is around 100,000 surgeries across Canada canceled or postponed due to COVID as of April 25, 2020.To really hit home on the fact that our reliance on fax machines in Canadian healthcare is antiquated and not secure; here is an opinion piece published by the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta that we could not stop saying "exactly" throughout. The physician, Dr. Sandy J. Murray (twitter: @Diver_Doc) also talks about the theatrics of Canadian healthcare and how we pride ourselves on innovation yet rely on a foundation of fax machines. We think Dr. Sandy J. Murray needs to take a look at Clinnect ;) and we agree: "Axe the fax. Let's make this change together."Resources on the issues of patient referrals:https://policybase.cma.ca/documents/policypdf/PD15-01.pdfhttps://www.aafp.org/news/practice-professional-issues/20180130ehrreferrals.htmlhttp://www.ihi.org/resources/Pages/Publications/Closing-the-Loop-A-Guide-to-Safer-Ambulatory-Referrals.aspxThere is a lot of information for physicians and care providers to sift through when managing referrals, at Clinnect we believe that physicians and care providers should do what they do best and we make it easy for them to follow best practices and policy by ingraining it into the product. Simple. Central. Secure.Find Us OnlineAngela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.caJonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.comCreditsProduced and Hosted by Jonathan Bowers and Angela HapkeMusic by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)TranscriptAngela:  Can I say the f word on.[00:00:02]Jonathan: You can, but then we have to beep it out or we get flagged as explicit in Apple.[00:00:06] Angela: Yes. Can we go for the explicit in Apple flag?[00:00:10] Jonathan: This is an explicit podcast, not for children. I think. I don't know how it works. I have to, I have to explore that a little bit. I've just, I'm just figuring out the recording and production piece. Uh,[00:00:21] Angela: I love it.[00:00:22]Introduction[00:00:22]Jonathan: Hi, I'm Jonathan Bowers. I am a software entrepreneur from Kamloops, and I haven't slept much this week because Zach is experiencing a sleep regression.[00:00:40]Angela:  Hi. I'm Agela Hapke. I am the CEO of Clinnect a digital health startup in Kamloops, and I sent my children to daycare for the first time in 73 days.[00:00:56] Jonathan: Oh my goodness.[00:00:57]How do you feel about that?[00:01:02] Angela: Um, Jonathan, I have never felt like deeply felt bitter sweet like this week.[00:01:12] I have spent 73 days seeing them every single day,[00:01:19]kissing their smushy little faces,[00:01:22]watching them grow, and I have to now give them away for eight hours a day again.[00:01:27]Jonathan: Wow.[00:01:28]Angela: And on the other hand, mama gets to do, whatever mom wants to do for eight hours a day again.[00:01:38] Jonathan: That's so exciting. I'm so jealous and so scared for you at the same time.[00:01:42] Angela: That's, this is what I mean by bittersweet. I've never felt the deep visceralness of bittersweet in my life before.[00:01:49]The Backlog of Surgeries[00:01:49]Jonathan:  well, this is a podcast about healthcare and healthcare technology. So let's, let's talk about, uh, what's going on in your world right now.[00:02:02]Angela:[00:02:02] so interesting things happening right now in the world of surgery. Um, the CMAJ, which is a Canadian Medical Association Journal, just published, um, a article around how they believe that the backlog of surgeries will be not solved. But part one, part of, of a large solution would be central intake for referrals.[00:02:28] Jonathan: Oh, interesting.[00:02:30]Angela:  It's being echoed everywhere. And as myself and one of my colleagues talked about, he says, I don't think anybody understands how hard it is. And I was like, I would, uh, I would agree. Um, And it's, it's not the software around it, but it is the cohesiveness of groups to agree to a central intake. And especially especially in the case where there is the perception of surgeries being divvied up.[00:03:01] Like let's just each take, uh, our equal pieces of the pie and do it that way. And the other person is maybe arguing in the fact that. Well, I can get done way more gallbladders than you can, so maybe I should just take more to them[00:03:20] It's an interesting one because when we talk about a divvying up just strictly referrals, what you're divvying up there is, um, consultations and potentially procedures down the road. But when we're talking about divvying up procedures.[00:03:35] There's a much higher price tag attached to those, right? Um, it's also short term thinking,[00:03:41] Jonathan: In what way?[00:03:42]Angela: So if you think about the way that connect is built is we're built, um, with the longterm in mind. We are building it so that groups can get to on the same platform, divvy up those referrals in a way that is equitable or purpose, purposefully inequitable. With the idea that you're going to get good data from this, you're going to get accurate go times with your wait times, right? You're going to, um, get a baseline of where you're at when you do equally, based on constraints if you want to equally, level load those referrals, and then maybe six months time, start to taking a look at wait times and going, Oh, well, you know, if we tweaked this here, tweaked this here, then we could do, uh, then we could maybe shorten wait times for everyone for category A or B.[00:04:38] It's that longer term view that gets you sophisticated data, accurate wait times, um, reports and data to go to governing bodies or sit at tables with and go, Hey, this is, this is the actual stuff. And that takes time. That takes a long time. Whereas what we're talking about with, um, this backlog of surgeries that are waiting, um, due to COVID, you're just looking at like, how many can we get through as quickly as possible in the most equitable way? now, not two years from now, but now.[00:05:17] Jonathan: But isn't that the same thing that like, if there's a backlog and you're trying to get through them as quickly as possible, is it a different solution than when we're not faced with this, , however many months backlog of, of surgeries.[00:05:30] Angela: Arguably it is the same solution. The, the difference I think is, um, Clinnect is built in a way that we can do a central intake that also allows patient continuity of care. So meaning I have my surgery done by the same surgeon that I saw in my initial consult.[00:05:48]This messes all of that up. And that was the differentiator with Clinnect is we actually like for so long, we talk about the fact that, um, in order to have a central intake and do surgeries effectively, um, everybody needs to kind of be put into, to pooled piles along each part of the journey and Clinnect.[00:06:07] Um, and our philosophy said, we'll hold, hold, hold up a minute. Couldn't we maybe have both.[00:06:13] Jonathan: Right,[00:06:14]Angela: and still serve the public in a way that is, um, is appropriate, but you also get to have that continuity of care with the surgeon that you've, started to get to know. And that that's never been really considered.[00:06:31] The thing is always been that, um. In order to get me through as quickly as possible, I just get to see the next available person, whether that be for a consult or a procedure or et cetera, et cetera. Whereas we said, you know, timeout. If you take a look at the big picture, I think we could do both of those things.[00:06:47]Jonathan: but right now it seems like the focuses is not so much that continuity of care. It's, it's we'd like, we really need to get through this backlog of, surgeries and you don't, you don't really get to decide. You just like, it needs to get done.[00:07:03] Angela: That's exactly it. That's, that's the thinking right now is that it? And there is, there is definitely research that says, um, that patients prefer to get their surgeries done quicker. If it. It means that even if it means that they have to see somebody that's different[00:07:23]Jonathan:  I'd rather have my surgery now than 10 years from now,[00:07:26]Angela: and I think, you know, the, what we were trying to say is the question's phrased incorrectly. Um, if, if the question is. Um, would you take a different surgeon than you had your initial consult with to do your surgery? If it meant you could have it faster? Well, that just incites a yes. Right.[00:07:45] Whereas if the other question, if the two questions were, if you could have your surgery done at the same time, um, would you prefer the surgeon that you've already met and built a relationship with or a new surgeon that's like, that's the question that Clinnect is asking. Which incites a different response, but it takes time to do that. it takes time to understand your baseline data and wait times and then tweak, with good data, making informed decisions versus, the short term thinking where it's like, okay, we just got to get through these surgeries now , I would like to see a bit of both. I'd like to see a mix where, maybe we do that for the short term is we just try and make the most efficient, meaningful, safe way to do this as possible right now. But down the road, don't forget about the long, the longterm[00:08:41]What is a Referral?[00:08:41]Jonathan: You've talked a lot about what Clinnect and referrals and all of these things. there's some context that I think people won't have. can you describe what the, like how do referrals work at a really basic level?[00:08:56] what is a referral? What, what happens[00:08:58] Angela: Um, I think it's a referral is something that most people are familiar with, whether they kind of know it or not. So every time you go to your primary care provider, um, so that includes general practitioners, family practitioners, nurse practitioners, um, all, all of these, health care providers that can make referrals to specialists.[00:09:20]So let's say it's a family doctor. You go to your family doctor and you have abdominal pain and your family doctor says, okay. it's bad enough that he's concerned that it might be a gallbladder or something like that.[00:09:35] So I'm going to send you off to a general surgeon. So at this point, your family doctor is , okay, who's the general surgeons in town? Who does gallbladders. are they all working full time right now? is any of them away on holiday and and and. So all of these questions, so then your, uh, family doctor sends, builds a referral, sends it off in their, um, typically their they make a referral in their EMR,[00:10:06] Jonathan: What's an EMR.[00:10:07] Angela: So it's a software that they use to manage your medical records. So an EMR is electronic medical record system. They type up a letter, they put any pertinent information, maybe your medical histories of medications that you're on, things like that.[00:10:21]They put together a little package that either gets printed off and faxed to this. General surgeon that they've guessed is around and guessed that does, um, gallbladders at this point, your family doctor is hoping that they received it.[00:10:37] You're not a hundred percent sure because they don't get a confirmation. They also don't know how long the wait time is. They have no idea. the receiving surgeons end either receives this on a fax machine, like a physical copy on a fax machine or their virtual fax machine, which is hopefully linked to their EMR where they receive it, they put it, they put it into their EMR.[00:10:58] So now you have a patient record on their end. Um, they typically don't send a confirmation back. You are now waiting. You don't have a clue how long you're supposed to be waiting because nobody's given you an estimated waiting time and you have no idea if they actually received it or not. That's typically how a referral goes.[00:11:17] Jonathan: So in a worst case, you go see your family physician for some concern, and he guesses at who to send it to faxes it, doesn't know if it actually was received on that end. Um, and you never have any insight into that entire process. Possibly never get seen because it was not actually delivered to anyone.[00:11:38] Angela: Worst case scenario. Yeah. Yeah. And there's many, many scenarios that go along with that. Um, meaning the referral could've gone to a specialist that doesn't practice anymore. The referral could've gone to a specialist that doesn't do, uh, gallbladders and maybe didn't, didn't send it back to that primary care provider.[00:11:57] Um, best case scenario, they send it off to the specialist. The specialist receives it. Um, maybe their MOA gives the primary care providers MOA, a quick call to say, Hey, we got this, uh, we got this referral. Um, my guess is, you know, it'll be about a two month wait time. Um, but, uh, we'll, we'll contact the patient directly and in two months you're contacted.[00:12:23] Usually by phone. So hopefully you have to your phone because they're phoning with an appointment for you. And if you didn't answer, then that, then they're going to the next one on the list and they're getting[00:12:34] that appointment. And then they get you, they get you on the phone and they say, Jonathan, can you come in at two o'clock on Tuesday?[00:12:40] And you actually can go in and two o'clock on Tuesday and you get seen.[00:12:43] So Clinnect now is an attempt to try and fix some of those pains.[00:12:50] Yeah. We are taking on the army of fax machines that are in all the physician offices all over. That's who we're taking on.[00:13:00]Jonathan: Oh, fax machines. , I worked. For an organization that was kind of old in their ways. . Uh, it frustrated me to no end that the thing that we would do as a practice to put information on, on the web, in a digital form was, so we started by typing it up in a word document. digitally,[00:13:20] Angela: Okay.[00:13:22] Jonathan: print it, scan it, and then put the PDF of the scan up on the website.[00:13:30] That's how information was communicated, started digital. It was converted into something analog, then back into digital, but a much worse version, the original and put it up on the, on the web, and it was, it just, it just boggled my mind that this was, this was something that people thought was the right thing to do.[00:13:54]What is Clinnect[00:13:54] So tell me about Clinnect. What is Clinnect now?[00:13:57] Angela: Clinnect is a drastically different way of making a referral. It's all online. It is tracked. There's an audit log around it so everybody knows when that referral was sent, everybody knows when it was received, accepted.[00:14:14]It's encrypted in a way that is, forward thinking and exciting. It's not a, not a fax machine or a piece of paper sitting on a fax machine, that's for sure. And it allows the really exciting part for physicians on both the referring and receiving end. Is that the primary care provider doesn't need to make all those guesses that I talked about.[00:14:39] They can just say, Hey, Jonathan has what I think is a gallbladder issue. I think it's urgent. And it automatically lets that doctor know who is available and who can take gallbladders.[00:14:53] And then from the specialist perspective, they get appropriate referrals, uh, timely. They're tracked, And, it allows the specialists to share those referrals and when the group of, uh, specialists in that area, so it's pretty exciting.[00:15:10] Jonathan: It is exciting. Lindsay shared Oh, a Maclean's article about how we rely on fax machines to send all this data around and how it's just, it's just not working. So it seems like, it seems like COVID has come in and the light has been shown and how broken the fax machine is for this kind of thing. For anything like fax machines, we don't meet them anymore.[00:15:35]We Don't Need Faxes Anymore[00:15:35] Angela: We don't need them anymore. Um, healthcare in Canada is built on. Foundations of things like fax machines I recently heard somebody say that healthcare in Canada is theatrical in the fact that we do showcase people doing remote surgeries with VR goggles and this amazing, high tech approach to all these, you know, sophisticated, um, methods and things like that.[00:16:08] Whereas at the end of the day, we still send referrals by fax machines. What we're doing with Clinnect is the really UN-sexy work of healthcare. We are not creating virtual goggles for somebody to do surgeries in remote parts of Canada because that's great, but we need to fix the foundation of even the way that we send referrals first.[00:16:39][00:16:39] Jonathan: I was talking with, my brother in law is a, uh, family physician and he, he had a quote unquote walk in phone call. And he said, if he had come into the clinic, um, he would have spent like two hours waiting around in the, in the waiting room until he got to see him. you didn't have to take time off work. And then, um. My brother and I just phoned them up and said, yeah, you know, saw him it took them, you know, less than 10 minutes, and it was just such a better experience for everyone.[00:17:05] Angela: We have, we actually have a lot of our, like our surgeons are just doing phone consults right now and that's surgeons. With an initial consult, right. They're getting the information that they do need. So, yeah, so you're right, it can, it can be just a phone call sometimes too.[00:17:21] Jonathan: take me back to your, the first thing you said, so, so Canadian medical association journal published an article that is advocating for a central intake.[00:17:33] Angela: That is, well, I mean, as a journal article, I don't think they're advocating per se, but what they are doing was, showing the benefit of a central intake on the access of surgery post COVID?[00:17:50] Yeah.[00:17:51] because, um, during COVID we have just, we, we stopped elective surgeries, almost altogether.[00:17:57] And there are some big numbers being, um, used around how many surgeries were canceled and how many surgeries, have been, missed during this time.[00:18:09]Jonathan: so those surgeries were scheduled, right? So they, that referral has already happened.[00:18:14] Um, this, the specialist already has that. So what, what happens now? Like what's the, what's the process does that, does that get, like, does it have to be referred or does the,[00:18:25] Angela: Yeah. So this is where, and this is where I'm trying to figure out, like is there a reshuffle of them? Right? So this and when they talk about Clinnect being long term, that's where this comes in. Clinnect is longterm because it starts from the need of a referral first through to the referral actually being sent.[00:18:44] Whereas these are typically referrals that have already been sent and potentially already been initial consulted on, um, maybe multiple times. Um, they're already at the place where we know they need a procedure. So is there a way to, in the short term, reshuffled these through a central intake that takes into account necessary items to reshuffle, not items, but constraints to reshuffle. Let's call them surgical referrals. In a way that, you know, reshuffles them based on their category, their urgency and the availability of the surgeons themselves because that may have changed.[00:19:28]And you can imagine to some of these people like they, like we didn't, we didn't hit pause on their symptoms.[00:19:34] So some of these people may have been like kind of in the semi-urgent category, have now bumped up to urgent, bumped up in urgency because their symptoms are now worse.[00:19:44]So they do they do need a very quick, efficient, uh, system to take a look at those changes and then reallocate them. Potentially reallocate them. Meaning it could go back to the same, same surgeon that was supposed to do it, or it could go to another one now.[00:20:08] Jonathan: Do you think you would see some of those referrals start to move around the province and like is that, whose job is that? Like whose job is that to review what has changed? Is that the surgeons or the specialist's job is that the family physician's job? It certainly is not the patient's job. I don't think.[00:20:26] Angela: I don't think so. I mean, that's all part of it too. Uh, whose job is it right now? So the patient is in the care still of the surgeon or the specialist. And in this case, we're talking surgery, so I can use the word surgeon. Um, and so it really is on them to kind of monitor as to where, where they're at.[00:20:49] But as you can imagine, there's no pause on this. It just keeps coming. So now we've put almost the unattainable expectations upon these surgeons to, um, sorry you won't be, doing procedures anymore and yes, your waitlist is building and building and building, but not, you still got to keep it, keep track of all these patients and where they're at.[00:21:11] I mean, that's insurmountable. So is there, is there a way that we can, quickly and efficiently. Do that as part of the reshuffle.[00:21:23] I don't know, but it seems plausible.[00:21:27]Could We Work with Specialist Groups to Address the Backlog[00:21:27] I would love to work with a group that is so inundated then so up to, they're like eyeballs that they like. They're like, I don't, I don't even know how we're going to restart our surgeries, but are willing to work as a group to do it and have an idea of how they might do, like how they could manually do it, but that would just take too much time and resources.[00:21:54] I would love to go in with them and say, let's try it. Let's try something and can we build it? Like, could we build something for you? I think that'd be cool.[00:22:06] Jonathan: I think it'd be cool. I'm so excited about all of the potential that, that this product has, not just for. Like, selfishly, you know, everyone has experienced the, the problem of, of getting a referral to some specialist somewhere and, and just sort of not having any idea of what's going on. Um, so I'm looking forward to just having my problem solved, but, um, it's, it's, it's cool to think that, you know, there's, there's some impact that we can have.[00:22:37] On, on healthcare on access to healthcare. The thing that everyone points to about Canada, like you have this wonderful healthcare system and it is, it's great in a lot of ways and not so great in, in many other ways. Um, it's just, it feels, it's really exciting to be part of this.[00:22:58] Angela: You're right in saying that, you know, Canada is often looked at as and held up in the way that our healthcare works and the access, And I'm hesitant to say this, but I think it makes us a bit complacent when we do talk about the forward thinking that we could do around further accessibility and further furthering that, that, um, the health care that we do have is because we do a lot of bat like back back of patting, um, of ourselves.[00:23:28] That's the word, um, to say like, look at us. We, we do, we do so well.[00:23:34] Mmm. And it makes us a bit complacent. And I think we could do a hell of a lot better. for not a lot of, massive shifts, but literally just doing what we do 10 times better. yeah, it makes, I'm excited too.[00:23:50] I think the timing is wild.[00:23:54] Jonathan: Oh my goodness. you look back to where we were, you know, last year when we were just sort of starting to talk about some of this stuff. And I mean, smart people have predicted that the pandemic is coming, but no one listened to them. But I mean, we certainly did not have any clue that this was going to happen.[00:24:11]trying not to feel like opportunistic. Um, I mean, I don't feel like we are being opportunistic at all, cause we started this journey a long time ago. Um, but it is, you know, there's a problem and we can help with it.[00:24:24] And we've got, you know, we've got a kick ass team to, to, to solve this.[00:24:29] Angela: That's exactly the way I feel about it too. And we're, and here's the best part about it. We're nimble enough to keep, um. Not re not reacting to anything but nimble enough to allow us to do some deep thinking around it and shift. And that's like, that's what I love about, um, where we're at too, is. Is, we're not just this big company that takes forever to maybe like steer the ship slightly one degree to the left, but instead we're like, Oh wow, look at that.[00:25:05] Let's like, let's, let's incorporate that piece. Or users are saying, please, please, please do this. Okay, let's do it. Let's like, let's make that better. And I think for me, because. The ethos of the company. You have always been grounded in the fact that we are building this for the, for, for the people, for the physicians to use, for, um, not for ourselves.[00:25:28] Um, but I've never really felt opportunistic about it at all because, um, I am so comfortable in the, the, um, philosophy that we built this on that I, that I feel it's desperately needed. It was needed years ago.[00:25:48] Jonathan: And, we're being very thoughtful about the approach to things, you know, thinking about, thinking about the privacy, thinking about, um, you know, thinking about it from not just the point of view of the physicians or the specialists or the, medical office assistant, who, who's using the software, but also, you know, what does that look like for the patient longterm?[00:26:11] Angela: Having worked in healthcare and having been like, just bound, um, from. Making big impacts due to, um, just simply lack of good data, lack of sophisticated data, lack of any type of meaningful information to make decisions on. Um, that's why I'm so excited to move out of the system to a place where I could influence that. In a row, like once again in a really, like, this is unsexy work, but at the end of the day, when I see the impact that, the potential impact, it's, it's overwhelmingly positive. So, and so many different areas for the patient, for the physician, for the, like the, the use of population data for, you know, et cetera, et cetera.[00:27:06] I just feel like it's not like we, you know, hit really hard in one area, but rather we, we, I think we're gonna hit a few home runs in a few, in a few different arenas here, so that's exciting,[00:27:20]Outro[00:27:20] Jonathan: Home runs in arenas. That's how sports works.[00:27:23] Angela: Think that's an awful, we're going to take that one out.[00:27:28] Jonathan: No, I'm going to leave that in. I like, I like mixing metaphors. I'm a big fan[00:27:33] Angela: so bad As soon as I said it, I was like, Nope, let's rewind that part.

Thie week on the pod Nate Liss (@AnOutragedJew) and Ryan Lopes (@StillRyanFive) bring on one of the most highly regarded and well known fantasy analysts on plant earth Evan Silva (@EvanSilva) and he does his very best to make Terry McLaurin the most expensive fantasy asset ever. SUPER BOWL Damien Williams a 2020 buy low or sell high post super bowl magic? How high are you on the CAR offense and DJ Moore next season? Joe Brady hire/thoughts? Ian Thomas time + other poised, “breakout” tight ends for 2020. Also think Blake Jarwin, more Jonnu Smith, CJ Uzomah, etc. What’s next for notable 2020 rookie receivers? Let’s talk Metcalf, Brown, McLaurin, etc. Patron question (Rhett): Joe Mixon’s 2020 ceiling + what rookie pick for him in trade (dyno) Buy all Bengals’ skill guys (Boyd, healthy Ross -- even thinking Uzomah at TE) Tony Pollard flashes, and the workload is limited, but he looks like the more capable, talented back right now. DAL should deploy him a la Austin Ekeler. Should Pollard be more involved going forward? Assuming DAL does the right/smart thing and locks Dak up long-term, what’s his path forward (finally) under a new coaching staff? Arrow has to be screaming up as it’s someone (anyone) other than Garrett on the headset? Ideal rookie RB landing spots? Ideal rookie WR landing spots? Patron question (Andreas): Kyler Murray’s dyno value? Top-5 or top-10 or lower? What do you get out of Larry Fitz this season? Wheels up for Chritian Kirk? Andy Isabella now in the fold? Hakeem Butler, left for dead? Patron question (Jonathan): What’s Calvin Ridley’s value at this point? General thoughts on the CLE situation? Updates on Mayfield, Beckham? New HC hire? I ask this of everyone that stops by, but what are we doing with JuJu Smith-Schuster? Thoughts on Ryan Tannehill (rebirth?) + TEN offense going forward? What’s AJ Brown’s ceiling?

Jonathan Cottrell – Serial Starter that serves entrepreneurs, innovators, and their communities from a place of love based in Phoenix, Arizona. Jonathan describes himself as a Jesus-follower, a family man, a people lover, community builder, and tentmaker. He shares his experience overcoming obstacles in entrepreneurship while helping others as well as himself build start-ups, products, communities, crafting brands, and designing user experiences since he was inspired to be an entrepreneur at the age of 11.   Show Notes: How does Jonathan define having a calling What does being a ‘serial start-up’ guy mean to Jonathan What types of things has Jonathan been able to get started How does Jonathan describe the idea ‘God works while we wait’ What are the clues and experiences that proved to Jonathan he was in his calling What voice was the loudest challenge when transitioning from employee to entrepreneurship How does Jonathan define success and significance as a follower of Jesus and a family man What does ‘Happiness is Love’ mean to Jonathan Which were the most character-building experiences that Jonathan learned from If there is not life in it Jonathan is not interested in being involved How has fasting effected Jonathan’s life Jonathan has a book being published called “Do Nothing” What are Jonathan’s pearls of wisdoms for heeding your calling   3 Key Points: How will you find your personal purpose if you don’t find out God’s eternal purposes? Start with ‘who’ questions to find your purpose: Who am I to God? Who am I to myself? Who am I to others?      People are changing jobs and careers approximately six times in their lifetime.   Key Quotes: - “My mission is pretty simple, I live to love radically and employ my gifting as a shepherd, as a starter, as I am conformed to becoming more like Jesus.” – Jonathan Cottrell - “I would define calling is understanding God’s divine and eternal purpose and understanding your place within it.” – Jonathan Cottrell   - “We have to come to finding a purpose isn’t tied to our vocational piece.” – Jonathan Cottrell   Resources Mentioned: heedyourcalling.com https://jonathancottrell.com Facebook for Jonathan Cottrell Instagram for Jonathan Cottrell Email for Jonathan Cottrell: j@cottrell.co Phone Number for Jonathan Cottrell: (480) 319-0448  

                She was traveling a lot I started to get jealous I was considering hacking into my wife's account to spy on her I knew that wasn't good... The post Jonathan: What would I do if I found out she was cheating on me? appeared first on The Suddenly Single Show with The Danielle Daily.

Image from Wikipedia Video of Captain Jeff's barber singing at LaGuardia NEWS [47:32] FAA AD may severely limit ETOPS of some RR-powered 787s [55:15] UPDATE: easyJet pilot fired after mid-flight Snapchat images were leaked [1:03:25] Southwest B737 engine damage takes out passenger window [1:45:37] Delta jet makes emergency landing as smoke pours from engine [1:49:14] F-22 Raptor skids across runway at Navy's Top Gun School FEEDBACK [1:55:42] Jonathan - What's next for Capt. Jeff? [1:58:18] Megan - Airbus lower-deck passenger facilities [2:08:26] TP from NJ - Short Story and Question [2:14:24] LA Steve - Officer who dragged passenger off United flight now suing [2:18:28] Col Jeff and Brian - FedEx will use smart glasses to help pilots land in emergencies [2:24:58] Mike - Interview at Sun'N'Fun with Listener Gus From Argentina Photos at Sun'n Fun from Gus [2:35:52] Plane Tales - The Sir Glen Torpy Interview - Part 3 [2:56:01] Carlos - Interesting Interaction with His Digital Assistant VIDEO Audible.com Trial Membership Offer - Get your free audio book today! Give me your review in iTunes! I'm "airlinepilotguy" on Facebook, and "airlinepilotguy" on Twitter. feedback@airlinepilotguy.com airlinepilotguy.com ATC audio from http://LiveATC.net Intro/outro Music, Coffee Fund theme music by Geoff Smith thegeoffsmith.com Dr. Steph's intro music by Nevil Bounds Capt Nick's intro music by Kevin from Norway (aka Kevski) Copyright © AirlinePilotGuy 2018, All Rights Reserved Airline Pilot Guy Show by Jeff Nielsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.

032 | In today's podcast we discuss the Milestones of FI with Joel from FI 180; this is a new look at the path to FI and the milestones along the way. In Today’s Podcast we cover: The ‘Milestones of FI’ with Joel from FI 180 We welcome Joel as our first repeat guest on Choose FI The Milestones of FI as a ‘master’s degree’ journey after Dave Ramsey’s baby steps Joel plans to be fully FI in January 2018 Joel is completely debt free and is shooting for $25,000 per year in other spending FI creates a “magic money making machine” that spits out yearly ‘checks’ (the 4% rule) FI is the ultimate luxury purchase to save for this ‘magic money making machine’ The Dave Ramsey Baby Steps explained To get started on the Milestones of FI: Debt Free and/or $1 of positive net worth First FI Milestone: $100,000 net worth when you first start getting calls from Personal Capital to setup a phone consultation 2nd FI Milestone: ‘FU Money’ set; 2-3 years of yearly expenses saved up 1st and 2nd milestone can be similar depending on your yearly spending The 3rd milestone is ‘Half FI’ which puts you halfway to FI in total spending, but actually more than that in terms of time on your FI path The path to FI is not linear and Joel explains Milestone #4 is ‘Lean FI’ which means you have enough money to stop working forever if you cut out the discretionary aspects of your budget (about 30% of Joel’s budget) Lean FI is an ‘emergency fund that would last forever’ as it covers your housing, food and other essentials Lean FI is perfect for people with a side hustle to do it with no risk The ‘crossover point’ could be another Milestone of FI. This is where your portfolio increase is more than the income you’re earning from your job The next milestone is ‘Flex FI’: This is a ‘5% rule’ or 20x your annual spending in your total net worth Flex FI is only viable for people who can build flexibility into their lives from year to year depending on the market returns, etc. FI is not one milestone but a smooth continuum towards this goal Flex FI has an 82% chance of success according to the Trinity Study (75% stocks, 25% bonds) Financial Independence is the 7th 25x your annual spending. All the work you do after you reach FI is completely optional. Now you can do what you want with your time. When you reach FI you can pick and choose what you want to do at work and in life The 8th milestone is ‘Fat FI’: This is 30x your annual spending which is the “closest thing to a sure thing” you can get in life Where is Brad in milestone continuum? Where is Jonathan? What does Alexis and Joel’s milestone celebration look like? Links from the show: The Milestones of FI at FI180.com Mad Fientist’s FI Laboratory cFireSim Early Retirement Now Fiery Millennials Personal Capital (affiliate link) Slowly Sipping Coffee

What was the relationship between David and Jonathan? What can we learn from the account of David and Jonathan?

In the beginning, Yul said "If we break up now, then we're toast!". So saith Yul and so shall it be. Here's a roleplaying assignment for this week's Listener Feedback show. If you were Jonathan, who would most likely be voted out next on Aitu, do you stay if offered the chance to join the other tribe? Now your on Aitu, what's the best thing you can say when asked what you think about your teammate's choice to mutiny? You're Jonathan again, what's your cover story to explain to Raro why they should keep you? Now for some conventional questions. Why is Candice so eager to sell out Jonathan? What is the significant information that the losing tribe will receive? Why didn't we see anyone express concern that Jonathan might have the hidden immunity idol? Do you think there's any chance now that someone from Aitu will make it to final four? Here are the tribes after episode 8. Aitutaki: Becky, Ozzy, Sundra, and Yul Rarotonga: Adam, Candice, Jenny, Jonathan, Nathan, Parvati, and Rebecca Episode 9 is titled, "People That You Like Want to See You Suffer". It's another double elimination week. Jo Ann thinks it will be Sundra and Jonathan. Stacy thinks it will be Sundra and Jenny Who are your picks for the next two that will be voted out? We've got several ways you can reach us. You can call and leave a voicemail at 206-350-JASS(5277). You can record an audio comment and attach it or just type up a quick text message and send it to us via email at joannandstacyshow@gmail.com. Lastly, there's a link for comments on the web page here. You can click that link and post your thoughts out there for everyone to see. The intro and outro tunes this week are dedicated to Candice and Jonathan who made the switch back to their Raro roots and performed their version of Mutiny on the Bounty. Here's a link to the artists in case you want to learn more about them. Switchback by The Days In Between Mutiny by Griddle 00:01 Date 00:05 Switchback by The Days In Between 01:03 Introductions 01:46 Props to Brian from Georgia 34:35 Next Week on Survivor 38:44 JSFL Update 45:52 Mutiny by Griddle   Links for Today's Show JSFL Results Update for Survivor: Cook Islands JSFL Rules for Survivor: Cook Islands Survivor 14 in Fiji? Contact Info:Voicemail: 206-350-JASS(5277)Email: joannandstacyshow@gmail.comGizmo: Enjoy, Jo Ann and Stacy